The Bulwark Podcast XX
[0] Hello and welcome to the Bullock podcast.
[1] I'm your host Tim Miller.
[2] I'm coming at you from my parents' basement for the next four days.
[3] So, you know, enjoy that.
[4] I'm delighted to be here today with Jane Koston.
[5] You might know her, contributing an opinion writer to the New York Times.
[6] She wrote recently for The Atlantic about nudity.
[7] And she's a friend of the pod.
[8] Jane, welcome back.
[9] Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be back.
[10] And hello to your parents' basement.
[11] Yeah, you know, it's going to be interesting down here.
[12] you know, if I have any trauma, if there are any sort of, there's trauma tears or anything, any flashbacks happening, everybody's just got to be patient with me because a lot of times you see a picture and you're like, whoa, I forgot how awkward I was at age 17.
[13] Yeah, your parents' basement always remembers.
[14] Like you forget, but your parents' basement remembers.
[15] Correct.
[16] Correct.
[17] Our topic list today is really just, it's a parade of horribles, a parade of comedy, and I think we're going to enjoy ourselves.
[18] Unfortunately, we have to start with the douche bags at the all -in podcast.
[19] For people who don't know the all -in gang, it is David Ball Sachs, Chimath, and then two other guys, and they're Silicon Valley tech people, and they started a pod.
[20] They're contrarian tech bros who have decided to support Donald Trump.
[21] They held a fundraiser for Donald Trump recently, and in exchange, Donald Trump grace them with his presence on their podcast.
[22] So I want to play one clip from it in particular, but Jane, do you have any high -level view on, you know, the Silicon Valley Trump bro phenomenon and why these guys are much more prominent than in 2016 and in 2020?
[23] I think it is speaking to actually Matt Stoller wrote a piece about this.
[24] Now, granted, I think the piece has that, but the wallet inspector never came back with my wallet vibes.
[25] But he's like, you know, in 2016, Trump talked about like combating big business and like talking about, you know, rooting for the little guys.
[26] And then in 2020 and 2024, it's not talking about that at all.
[27] And I'm like, hmm.
[28] Hmm.
[29] Interesting.
[30] So to me, this is tethered to that.
[31] Also, the idea that Donald Trump, I think, smartly recognizes that he repeats back the thing that the person clearly wants him to say, everybody's happy with him.
[32] Yeah.
[33] Well, I'm going to get to the repeating back thing because that is where we're going next.
[34] But there's one other element to this that I think is there, which is just fatigue.
[35] And like in 2016, a month.
[36] the, you know, kind of progressive denizens of Silicon Valley where I used to live, you know, there was just this huge outrage at Donald Trump, but you can only be outraged at something for so long.
[37] And so I'm not sure that the oligarchs, the people at the top of the chain, you know, with the exception of our friend Reed Hoffman, who wrote a wonderful rebuttal to David Ballsax, which I'll put in the show notes.
[38] I'm not sure that many of the oligarchs actually really hated Trump that much, you know, because they are in their, you know, castles of prosperity.
[39] They have many moats around them that will prevent them from any dangers of Donald Trump.
[40] But they were responding to a bottom up revolt, right?
[41] And the bottom up revolt from the people that worked for them.
[42] And they were like, oh my God, if I don't speak out against Donald Trump, you know, then I won't be able to recruit people and there'll be this huge backlash against me. And what they found out was like, nah, actually, that isn't really true.
[43] People will be mad for a little while and then they'll go on with their lives.
[44] And so now I'm kind of free to, you know, let my freak flag fly and support this guy who will obviously give me whatever I want as long as I give them money.
[45] That's how I would sum it up.
[46] I have a theory that wherever you are, the most irritating people around you will help to direct where your political ire is aimed.
[47] This is a great thing.
[48] And I've noticed there are a couple of outlets where I'm like, this is very much, I am surrounded by the most irritating leftist imaginable.
[49] The free person.
[50] Ergo, I am furious at the left.
[51] You know, I do.
[52] not grow up surrounded by irritating leftists.
[53] I grew up in Ohio in the 90s.
[54] I would have, that was not what we had.
[55] I don't think they made irritating Ohio leftists until like, what, 2013?
[56] Yeah, there were one or two maybe.
[57] Yeah.
[58] Tough times out there for that.
[59] Because I think that if you are the All In podcast or you are someone who, you know, you live in Manhattan or you live in like a big coastal city, you do not experience the outrages of the right, except sort of like tension.
[60] You experience the most annoying liberals you have ever heard of in your entire life.
[61] And they are like literally next door to you.
[62] But, and I think that this is why, like, I would love to hear what the all in podcast would be like if the all in podcast were based in like Kansas City.
[63] Shreveport.
[64] Yeah.
[65] And it just is like, that's not, I think that this is more about like regional difference in some ways in terms of like what you consider to be the threat.
[66] Because understandably, if you are in a city in which reporters.
[67] Republicans or conservatism has basically no inroads.
[68] And if you are in a city in which the conservatism that exists in Louisiana or Missouri or Iowa or Utah has no entry, then it will not be as worrying to you personally as the liberalism that is very annoying to you and exists in San Francisco and Manhattan.
[69] Yeah, it's the ultimate reverse partisanship argument.
[70] Okay, Okay.
[71] Well, if you have friends that are like this in your life, later on in this podcast, we are going to play some audio from some of the worst people in Maga World, so maybe show that to them.
[72] I expose them a little bit to what's happening.
[73] I always want to offer to Republican donors, like, I will take you on a tour of TPUSA events and Donald Trump events.
[74] I will bring, I will go with you, we'll bring a bodyguard, and we will just go there and just hang out for 48 hours.
[75] And if you still want these people to run the country after that, then that's fine.
[76] And I think that that would be a worthwhile service for someone to provide.
[77] I want to play one clip from this podcast.
[78] It's the only news in it.
[79] These guys were just like, Donald Trump, why is the border such a problem?
[80] And why was the economy so much better under you?
[81] It was not a hard -hitting interview.
[82] But they accidentally made one piece of news on the issue of green cards.
[83] I apologize.
[84] We're going to have to listen to a full minute of the all -in douchebags in Donald Trump.
[85] But it's important.
[86] Let's take a listen.
[87] To recruit the best and brightest world.
[88] Every time we get somebody super intelligent from India or Europe, any country, that's one of the ones are immigrants, sir.
[89] Yeah, and three of the four here are immigrants, the ones without the ties.
[90] And we can get these great people into our country, and that's a loss for our adversaries and our competitors.
[91] And it's a game for us, but I've never heard you talk about this.
[92] Can you please promise us you will give us more ability to import the best and brightest around the world to America?
[93] I do promise, but I happen to agree.
[94] That's why I promise.
[95] Otherwise, I wouldn't promise.
[96] Let me just tell you that it's so sad when we lose people from Harvard, MIT, from the greatest schools, and lesser schools that are phenomenal schools also.
[97] And what I wanted to do, and I would have done this, but then we had to solve the COVID problem because that came in and, you know, sort of dominated for a little while, as you perhaps know.
[98] But what I want to do and what I will do is you graduate from a college.
[99] I think you should get automatically as part of your diploma a green card.
[100] So, on the face of it, a good policy, but there's a lot of things underneath the surface.
[101] So, Jane, why don't you take the first swing of that?
[102] Okay.
[103] One, I maintain that lesser colleges that are still phenomenal colleges, it's a funny line.
[104] Like Fordham, like, you know, where he went.
[105] It is a, yeah, you know.
[106] The Rams.
[107] One, what he is proposing is a visa that sort of already kind of exists, like the highly skilled, high talent visa, that is a real thing.
[108] As a side note, if you explore the world of high -level visas, they're like the visas for like extremely talented people.
[109] Do you remember like when Justin Bieber was getting into a bunch of trouble and people were like launched a change .org petition to get his visa rescinded because he had like a special one for like being highly talented or something.
[110] So there are multiple types of visas.
[111] So this sort of exists.
[112] The replies to this on Twitter, I will never call it the other.
[113] thing.
[114] We're so funny because all of these people, that's the thing with Trump that is weird and confusing to anyone who has any political consistency whatsoever or the memory of longer than like 45 minutes.
[115] Because all of the people who were like, we got to close the border and stop legal immigration.
[116] Like the people who are like, Stephen Miller, that guy doesn't seem terrifying.
[117] All of these people reply, like, oh, this is so good.
[118] So based.
[119] I love.
[120] I love it.
[121] And I'm just like, so you think it would be an amazing policy.
[122] One, I love that Trump was like, Harvard, amazing school.
[123] And all of these people who have spent the last four months pretending like Harvard is like evil backwater, we're like, yeah.
[124] Like, if you are a student on a student visa and you attend Harvard, and when you graduate from Harvard, you just get a green card, like the immigration restrictionist pretzel that would put immigration restrictionist in if there was any need for logical consistency would be very funny and yet all of these people are like yeah it's amazing and I'm like this is exactly the thing that you said you were mad about like he literally did the thing of just being like I do promise because I agree with you I remember that early in like 2017 there was this thing of like what if Nancy Pelosi just started suggesting things and complimenting Trump a lot?
[125] Like, you know, you could have gotten universal health care or something.
[126] I don't think that was really true because the people actually put in charge of the Trump administration were not like that.
[127] But it is interesting how he will promise anything, absolutely anything.
[128] And then he will put Stephen Miller in charge of it.
[129] And every, and like Stephen Miller is like, you know, the Immigration Restriction Act of 1924 didn't go far enough.
[130] I've been trying to think more about Donald Trump less than anything he says and more about what he does or promises to do and not just like promises to do on a podcast, but like policy positions that are put at because I feel like that's the closest we will get to actually understanding what he would do as actual president because he keeps doing this thing where he pretends like he wasn't president.
[131] Like I don't know if he saw he thinks that there was a conspiracy around the assassination of JFK and I'm like, sir, you were president.
[132] there's like all the people who are allowed to know the ins and outs of the assassination of JFK you're like you are one of the people that's you like there's such a weird tabula rasa effect happening again which he did very successfully in 2016 but now he's doing it again of being like the four years i was president i don't know what you're talking about made up not real but like it is interesting only in that he will see say anything.
[133] And then he will put Stephen Miller in charge.
[134] And Stephen Miller, absolutely 100 % does not think that if you went to Yale, you should get a green card.
[135] No, absolutely he doesn't.
[136] And do you know how we know that?
[137] Because Stephen Miller is in charge of the fucking immigration regime for four years.
[138] It's like, are these four guys, these four duches, like, are they this gullible when they meet with VC founders who come to them and they're like, I'm going to invent the next great AI widget?
[139] Like, you should give me a hundred million dollars like how gullible do you have to be Trump was in charge of the immigration regime for four years and he throws this aside out where he's like well you know we wanted to do this but COVID happened like what are you talking about COVID resulted in actually a ton of immigration changes like you're your your administration cracked down in draconian ways on immigration of all kinds legal and illegal that's what you did you could have changed you could have also said over the course of those changes that people with a college degree who test negative for COVID can get a green card like you could have done anything you wanted but you have fucking stephen miller the the santa monica gobbles running your your thing and like these four guys are it's like yeah great point mr trump great point mr trump it's amusing to me only in i wonder what you could get trump to agree with if you just complimented him a lot on a podcast oh and gave him money the complimenting and gave him money these guys all gave him money and he switched on the ticot ban too it's the same thing he flipped on the ticot band because some rich guy gave him money he is pretending he cares a lot about crypto, which, again, I think that we need to get my dude, Jonathan Swan, to ask Donald Trump, what is cryptocurrency?
[140] Because the three minutes that would follow would be like what it would sound like if you watch the cat fall down the stairs.
[141] Like, it would be true dissembling.
[142] But it's like, I think that that's the challenge that, and I think a couple, you know, there have been some smart writing on this, is that, true.
[143] Trump somehow manages to pretend as if he exists in the world of eternal possibility and non -reality.
[144] This is not true.
[145] He was actually president.
[146] We were all there because I am, you know, in my 30s and I am not five.
[147] This all happened.
[148] We were all there.
[149] He was president.
[150] Here are the things that took place while he was president.
[151] And the idea that you can just memory wipe all of that and pretend that if he exists again is a tabula rasa upon which you can project.
[152] all of your greatest hopes and dreams is bizarre.
[153] It is the most giving your wallet to the wallet and spectre thing I have ever heard in my entire life.
[154] Like, there are so many things that he actually did and he actually supported.
[155] And it is interesting to see again and again how the things he did and things he actually supported exist in this weird time warp, like the bump stock band, which I wrote back when it happened in, I think, 2018, like, ATF was like, I don't think we can do this.
[156] Like, everybody within the government essentially was like, I do not think we can actually do this.
[157] Late Senator Dianne Feinstein was like, I don't think this is legal.
[158] Like, we just cannot do this.
[159] And Trump was like, we'll do it.
[160] And then obviously the Supreme Court shuts it down.
[161] And so we now have, you know, we've had, I think, someone, you know, right legislation being like, well, Republicans, you all said this was a great idea.
[162] We should ban bomb stocks.
[163] Like, this is a thing.
[164] Congress can do.
[165] So many times the Supreme Court is like, hello, we are the Supreme Court.
[166] And then now the Republicans are like, what are you talking about?
[167] Trump, this wasn't us?
[168] This was the Libs that did this.
[169] No, no. And I'm like, but it was you saying this.
[170] And they're like, I don't know, I blacked out for four years.
[171] If they just would say, like, I don't know, I blacked out the entire Trump term.
[172] I'd be like, you know, I get it.
[173] It would just be like how, you know, David Bowie had absolutely no memory of doing the station the station album.
[174] He was just like, great album.
[175] No memory of it.
[176] And everybody's like, all right, checks out.
[177] Like, I would respect that.
[178] Let's, let's not compare Marco Rubio's brain fog to David Belly.
[179] All right.
[180] Like, we're, we're extending this metaphor a little far.
[181] I'm just saying, I would respect that more than to just pretend as if the entire Trump had missed, like, to say all of these things during the Trump term.
[182] And I'll come back now and just be like, I don't know what you're talking about.
[183] And then pretend again that he is this tabial route upon which you can project a immigration regime that cares about you, specifically Guy on podcast and cryptocurrency.
[184] There's been a lot of chatter about the black voter and how Donald Trump is potentially making some inroads there, or maybe Joe Biden's just struggling with black voters.
[185] And I particularly wanted your insight on one element of this.
[186] There's a poll out a couple of days ago of black voters over 50.
[187] Biden was at 82 % Trump was at 8%.
[188] That's essentially in the margin of error from what happened in 2020.
[189] I'm like 18 to 49 year olds.
[190] Biden is at 62%.
[191] 62.
[192] Trump is at 25.
[193] And that's a absolutely sea change from what we saw in 2020.
[194] So the question I have for you is do we think, is there something not the polling?
[195] Or they are just, you know, it's hard to poll young black people.
[196] Like there are certain demographic groups that's hard to pull.
[197] I've talked about this before.
[198] It's very hard to pull.
[199] Spanish -speaking Hispanics, for a while it was hard to pull Trump supporters and they started like to brag to pollsters.
[200] So, you know, there was a change there.
[201] Maybe that demo is just hard to poll.
[202] Maybe Trump is a tabula rasa for them, right, because they're younger.
[203] They didn't pay that close of attention last time.
[204] Maybe it's economic, right?
[205] They're struggling more with, you know, dealing with inflation than folks that had savings.
[206] I don't know.
[207] Do you have any theories of the case on this?
[208] Well, I'd be interested to see what the gender breakdown is.
[209] I read about this in 2020.
[210] If you look at 2016 exit polling, 13 % of black men voted for Trump, 4 % of black women did.
[211] My favorite number of this is that 1 % of black women in the state of Pennsylvania voted for Trump, which I believe means you could fit all of the black women in the state of Pennsylvania who voted for Trump into one room.
[212] And in 2020, the exit polling was about 19 % of black men voted for Trump.
[213] 9 % of black women did.
[214] And so there's been a long -running gender gap among support for Donald Trump among African -Americans.
[215] That's just a thing that has existed for many reasons.
[216] So I would be very interested to see what that breakdown would look like, especially even over 50 and 18 to 49.
[217] I also think that polling is often, we treat it as being forward -looking, but I think it's more like it's a picture in time.
[218] It's a picture in time, and it is, to me, this is reflective of soft Biden support, not necessarily strong Trump support people are attempting to send a message I'm not going to do the thing of like the polling needs to be unskewed or something like that I am saying like I think that this polling is reflective of trying to send a message not necessarily a predictor of the future I will also say this is a side note it drives me kind of nuts when activist groups look at polling like this and are like wow it would be so funny that the thing we care about the most is the thing that we are going to decide is what people care about in this polling.
[219] That's not a thing.
[220] I do not think that if Biden did a specific thing that an activist group wanted him to do, that this polling would change that much.
[221] Criminal justice reform or Gaza or reparations or whatever.
[222] That's not necessarily how this works.
[223] Let's keep in mind also that if you care a lot about an issue, that means you are way more well informed about the issue, whatever it is, than 96 % of the human race.
[224] So I think, like, it's important to think about this for me as reflective of a moment in time, as a picture, as a here is a piece of information, not necessarily a forward -looking prediction.
[225] And I think that that's something, like you're seeing this from, I was about to say conservatives, but I'm like, eh, that's unfair.
[226] Because I think that, like, what we're saying this is from, like, the weirdo, right?
[227] The people who are like, oh, black people, love Trump because black people love criminals.
[228] Yeah, that's a that's racist just to be clear.
[229] And it is interesting how this idea of like, oh, it's because Trump is, you know, he's a badass or something like that.
[230] And I'm like one of the people who are badass, Trump is like so far down on the list.
[231] So far down.
[232] Can you imagine if Trump was punched?
[233] I mean, I always like to bring up my favorite video of Trump where he gets scared of the bird, scared of the eagle, goes to bite.
[234] It's like, ah!
[235] Understandably, Eagles, if you've ever seen like a hawk or eagle in very close proximity.
[236] They're much bigger and scary you're looking like you think.
[237] But I mean he handled it like not like a badass.
[238] He did not handle it well.
[239] But I think like it's interesting also because you see like something that I always am really bothered by personally is a view of African Americans that is as uncharitable as that while attempting to pretend as if you are supporting African Americans.
[240] I There was a piece in the Miami New Times.
[241] Well, it was actually an ad.
[242] There was a great Axios piece on this.
[243] The ad got pulled, but it basically was a pro -Trump ad from a group called Blacks for Trump, which, if you recall, perhaps, one of the numbers of which may have been involved in some light murder, alleged.
[244] It is linked to a group, Black Hebrew -Israelites, which are not great people in many respects.
[245] But this ad was essentially like, you know, Trump is a criminal.
[246] He's our criminal.
[247] He's just like us.
[248] And it uses the N word a bunch of times.
[249] And then Miami people were like, how did this ad get in?
[250] But like that to me is indicative of how some on the right have such low views of African Americans writ large that a person doing something in every way.
[251] I even remember this before Trump became a convicted felon.
[252] The idea that African Americans would find.
[253] commonality in Trump because he had an affair and had sex with a woman who wasn't his wife because you know that's a thing black people love to do that yeah white people don't do that it's a very black thing it's a it's famously not a not a white people thing but I think that that is to me indicative of a very disturbing view among some on the right of African Americans as being essentially like I mean it's the same way that you like I talked about this online that like the best way to become a very wealthy right -wing person is to be a right -wing minority who just says like incredibly stupid things and then people will just be like oh but she's black so it's okay like Candace is back to beating us in the pod ratings now that she's back so you know please send this podcast to your friends so we can we can no longer be getting beaten by Candace yeah it's I mean I think that that's something like the bigotry of low expectations is really, this is what it looks like when it is African Americans are, some African Americans, I would argue probably some African American men are probably going to vote for Trump.
[254] And I'm going to guess that they're not voting for Trump on the basis of he's a criminal just like me. Like, come on.
[255] Well, this is the funny thing about this.
[256] Like, to me, it's like the most obvious reason for this is, well, there's some cultural elements, I think.
[257] The base view of this might be that there is like some kind of machismo element, which explains the gender gap.
[258] that helps Trump appeal to young men of all races.
[259] It's not unique to black races, but it's why Trump's doing better among young men.
[260] There is kind of this machismo.
[261] Some progresses might call it toxic masculinity.
[262] I mean, men in general tend to be currently more conservative, more socially conservative than women in general.
[263] And like, it's very clear if you spend any time on like right -wing Twitter as how much people, the degree of hate right -wing Twitter has for white liberal women, Whom they believe genuinely to be the source of all evil.
[264] But like the gender gap exists across races, just in a general fact.
[265] So to me, like, this is not surprising, exactly.
[266] And to me, it's like the funny thing about it all for me is like the obvious answer to this is, well, there's some gender gap to it.
[267] And there is some legitimate inflation.
[268] If you look, there's another pullout this week that was like, I don't have right in front of me, but I believe it was Trump is winning among people who say that they are struggling financially.
[269] 60 to 28 or something like that.
[270] And it's the inverse amount of people who are saying that they're fine or that they're doing better, they're doing well.
[271] And like younger black voters are not doing as well financially as other demos, right?
[272] Like that's just a fact, right?
[273] So I do think that some of this is just simply inflation has hit working class communities harder.
[274] Disproportionately, you know, that is a lot of black communities.
[275] And so there's some percentage of voters that are frustrated with the economy.
[276] And as a result, they're looking around.
[277] around for another solution besides Biden.
[278] Maybe they'll come home.
[279] And in the meantime, the Trump people are seeing this data set that's like very obvious.
[280] They're like, you know why they really like us because we're criminals, because we're outlaws.
[281] We got to bring up, we should bring rappers who killed people up on stage to help do it even better with this group.
[282] I mean, there's some comedy in that.
[283] I mean, it's a dark comedy.
[284] Yeah, there is.
[285] I mean, especially because it is interesting that they're like, it couldn't possibly be because of like an actual policy issue.
[286] It has to be because of the thing that this guy did that is why he's a felon now.
[287] Yeah, it also has to be an ego boost.
[288] Like, it's because we're such badass.
[289] Like, we're rebels.
[290] We're the rebels without a cause now.
[291] Speaking of MAGA, white men who think that they're rebels, we've had a segment here.
[292] I don't know if you've caught it.
[293] I think I kicked it off after your last visit, but it's called The Right Stuff.
[294] I love that.
[295] You know Johnny McEntee, of course, the deputy president, the head of the right -wing dating site, the guy that's going to be in charge of hiring in the next Trump administration?
[296] I do know.
[297] If I recall, Yukon quarterback great and trick shot maven.
[298] Correct.
[299] That's a good poll.
[300] One thing I think when we've done these segments, I might not have made clear to the audio listeners of this podcast is these videos that I play, the conceit on TikTok is that Johnny is sitting there eating.
[301] He's at a restaurant.
[302] And so the conceit is that he is on a date.
[303] And this is a POV video.
[304] And the POV is you and the camera are.
[305] on the date with Johnny, and he's talking.
[306] So I just, I think that's important context as we hear these clips.
[307] Let's hear Johnny talk about trans fats on a date with an imaginary person.
[308] It's funny how things change.
[309] Ten years ago, everyone was scared of trans fats, but now everybody celebrates fat trans.
[310] Do you get that one?
[311] Do you get the joke there?
[312] He really tickled himself.
[313] You know, it's a good sign when you start laughing.
[314] after your own joke.
[315] I do that.
[316] And usually it's because the joke is bad, but it amused me. The joke missed.
[317] I do not want to go on a date with this person.
[318] No. There's a little more evidence you might not want to go on a date with him for your health purposes.
[319] Let's hear a recent take that he had about the vaccine.
[320] If the vaccine was so great, why is it so easy to find people who regret taking it, but not a single person who regrets not taking it?
[321] I guess it's true that you can't interview Herman Cain.
[322] No. No, there are a lot of people who I think would probably regret not having the vaccine, but, you know, when we get the means by which we can communicate beyond the veil, well, then we'll get to it, you know.
[323] I met a medium at a recent wedding that I was at, and so maybe we could bring her into the process.
[324] That would be so helpful.
[325] I'm sure Herman Cain has a lot to say.
[326] Through the expanse of time.
[327] These guys are such douchebags.
[328] On the one hand, there's the scary element to this.
[329] This is the person that's going to be hiring people, an appoint man for Project 2025 in the Schedule F reclassification.
[330] Then there's the part of me that's like, how is this race tied?
[331] Like, how does this appeal to people?
[332] How are half the country appeal to this fucking idiot douchebag?
[333] I think that the best thing we can do is combine concern, action, and laughter.
[334] Because it's like, Every time I see somebody like Jack Posobiac, who helped to foment the Seth Rich conspiracy theory that has made his parents' lives a living hell, his parents and brothers' lives are living hell, do anything ever.
[335] Like the whole white boy summer thing at TPUSA, which is - Please explain for our listeners what white boy summer is.
[336] Okay.
[337] So Turning Point USA is, you know, they have their big youth conference, which if you look in the audience, there is a lot of old people there.
[338] Everyone, the average age at this conference appeared to be, what, like, 34?
[339] Older.
[340] Well, so this is just important context for somebody who's had to suffer through many of these.
[341] It's one of these conferences where, like, there's a room where people sit and listen to these horrible, obnoxious speeches where people make jokes even worse than the trans fat joke that we just started to suffer through.
[342] And the people that sit in the room are like grandparents age, not 34.
[343] Yes.
[344] The median age in the room listening to the speech is like 66.
[345] Nothing wrong with 66 year old.
[346] We appreciate everybody who's listening to 66, but it's a youth conference.
[347] So that's a little, it's a little concerning.
[348] Then out in the hall, there are like little, like 20 -year -old Hitler youth who are trying to, like, boys who are like trying to sleep with the 20 % of girls who attend.
[349] And so, like, that's essentially what's happening here, just for context.
[350] Yeah, and every year they have actual white nationalists who try to come and then they get thrown out because they're actual white nationalists.
[351] And then the white nationalists complain, which I'm amused by because I'm like, you're a white nationalist.
[352] Imagine that life.
[353] But also, your biggest dream is to get into a TPUASA event.
[354] I am apparently, I'm sure I've told you this, Tim.
[355] I am apparently on the band list from TPSA events, and it has bothered me, not at all.
[356] It is also interesting how, you know, they keep trying to throw Nick Fuentes out of these events, but on the same hand, they keep, like, Charlie Kirk keeps saying gropery thing.
[357] about the great replacement and pretty much with the idea that like, you know, white nationalism has bad PR, but if you just save similar things, it's fine.
[358] But so, Jack Posobia at this conference is waving this like white boy summer flag, which I really think that Tom Hanks' son should sue over that.
[359] But it was just funny because you look in the crowd, and as you said, it is a bunch of 66 -year -old grandparents watching some dude wearing sunglasses waving a white boy summer flag.
[360] And I was like, this is embarrassing.
[361] This is embarrassing on every level for everyone involved.
[362] It is.
[363] Indeed.
[364] Embarrassing.
[365] We have a couple more embarrassing things to talk about.
[366] Which one do I want to do first?
[367] We'll end with your article on the nudes internet and the slow sexualization of everything online.
[368] And for people who don't want to hear about the nudes internet and Jane talking about labias, you can fast forward, fast forward, fast forward because we have some great questions from you guys.
[369] And I'm keeping Jane from the mailbag.
[370] But I want to do two minutes on the Caitlin Clark discourse, if you will, before we get to the news.
[371] nudes internet because these are also some of the worst people in the world and so it's a it's a nice transition there's a social media post that went viral there've been many social media posts like this but there was one in particular that i want to read to you because i think it really hits everything on the head this one received 5 ,000 retweets it had 9 million something views those numbers are kind of skewed but even even still 5 ,000 people saw this one was like they're like i agree with this enough that i want my followers to also see this uh here it goes for those who are are unaware, here's what's going on with Caitlin Clark.
[372] She's a straight white woman in a league of mostly bitter black women and a lot of black lesbians.
[373] The media has told black women for months, Clark is popular only because she's straight and white.
[374] The black women are now bullying, assaulting, and smearing her.
[375] And mostly black basketball media is defending the black mean girls and asking Clark to defend the women attacking her.
[376] You know, we also had Clay Travis and many other of the Fox types sharing a similar mean that, that Kate, Caitlin Clark is being attacked because she's white.
[377] There's reverse racism.
[378] And unfortunately now, finally when women's basketball is gaining the interest of the public, because like other sports, it's got rivalries, it's got awesome players, it's got amazing shot making.
[379] It's got everything that you want in sports.
[380] The worst people in the world want to make this a race war.
[381] Great.
[382] It's a content thing.
[383] I was thinking about this because there's Caitlin Clark, the athlete, and I want to separate that out.
[384] Caitlin Clark is a professional basketball player.
[385] she plays the sport of basketball and there have been so many examples of people trying to generate content about her where I'm like have you never seen a basketball game before and I believe the answer is no we see this all the time in which like when like right wing or even left wing commentary try to talk about sports and I'm like oh so you've just never watched the game before in your life.
[386] It's like Kay and Clark gets fouled and they're like whoa this was an attack yeah they're like we should call the police it is also funny for the same people who have been complaining about how soft American culture is, and now they're like, my baby.
[387] I saw someone being like, it is odd that people talk about Kate and Clark, like she's their daughter and not their 22 -year -old daughter, their six -year -old daughter.
[388] But there's Caitlin Clark, the athlete.
[389] She's averaging 16 .3 points a game, 5 .5 rebounds, 6 .2 assists.
[390] She's doing great.
[391] She's doing great.
[392] She's playing professional basketball at a very high level on a team where people seem to forget also that, like, if you have a really high draft pick, that's not because you were so awesome.
[393] It's because the Indiana fever were very bad.
[394] And so, like, they've gone on a winning streak recently.
[395] That's great.
[396] Like, they're doing it.
[397] I want to put her in the athlete box.
[398] The athlete is over here.
[399] It's fun to hang out over there.
[400] Like, that's fun.
[401] It's fun to watch.
[402] It's inspiring.
[403] Yeah.
[404] Oh, my God.
[405] Actual sports.
[406] It's amazing.
[407] Then there's Caitlin Clark with Tabula Rosa.
[408] And I came up with this idea, you know, Tim, you're a college football person.
[409] Do you remember a man named Tim Tebow?
[410] Of course, yeah.
[411] So there's Tim Tebow, the college football player who won the highest man, I believe, twice.
[412] Twice.
[413] And then played in the NFL for like a little bit, had one of the most astounding playoff wins, Broncos over Steelers, with one fantastic pass that caused John Elway to like leap up and down for 15 minutes.
[414] That was cool.
[415] I can picture it in my head.
[416] Yeah, it all happened.
[417] It's going right down the left side line.
[418] Yeah, it happened.
[419] And then, you know, kind of fizzled out of the NFL.
[420] He tried playing in Major League Baseball for a minute.
[421] Anyway, he's doing commentary now for the last.
[422] He's actually very good at commentary.
[423] He works for like the Yes, you see network.
[424] He's great.
[425] Then there was this thing, which I called Teboism, which was treating an athlete, not as an athlete, but as a symbol of something you've projected onto them, everything mean that people say about that person is actually because of the thing you've projected onto him.
[426] So with Tim Tebow, it was like, you don't want him to succeed in the NFL because he's a Christian.
[427] And I'm like, there's no dearth of Christians.
[428] in the NFL.
[429] They do like prayer circles.
[430] It's a whole thing.
[431] Every game.
[432] Like literally, I would say, if I had to guess, 80 % of NFL players are like either explicitly or tangentially Christian.
[433] And at least half of post -game interviews, thank God, at least, you know?
[434] Yeah, like, you're thank God all the time.
[435] Everybody's thanking God.
[436] Like, because God was like, hang on.
[437] I really got to make sure that you get this fourth and one.
[438] And there have been numerous times in which I've, like, believe the Lord did want us to convert that forth in one.
[439] And you see this happening with Caitlin Clark where a bunch of people see that, one, she's a content generator.
[440] And you're starting to see, I think, smart people calling this that more and more often.
[441] There was like, you know, she had a shot blocked and somebody taped up.
[442] It was like, why is this person being so mean?
[443] And like, Trey Wingo, who used to be at ESPN was like, you're just trying to get clicks because it's like, this is the sport of basketball.
[444] Caitlin Clark plays basketball.
[445] She talks shit.
[446] she plays hard.
[447] She will go hard in the paint.
[448] She goes inside, outside.
[449] Like, she does the sport.
[450] That's the way it is.
[451] That's why she's so good at it.
[452] And I think that people in this content generation space have no tether to sports.
[453] That's why you see all these people being like, she should start her own league.
[454] Why?
[455] Because of content.
[456] Because you just want to say things for content.
[457] Like people getting very mad that she isn't on the Olympic team when she was playing in the national championship game so she couldn't try out for the Olympic team.
[458] And, you know, the WMBA does not run USA basketball, which is how the Olympic team is made.
[459] And you don't need to put somebody on the team just because you would generate content with people who don't watch sports.
[460] Like, it's insanity producing for people who care about sports.
[461] It is insanity producing for people who care about athletes.
[462] We keep doing this thing where, like, women's sports is a thing that we're allegedly very supportive of.
[463] but when women play sports we get very like people don't know how to talk about it but i think also treating Caitlin clark who is an actual person an actual person who's playing in an actual league an actual league that has lots of straight white women in it for the record tons of straight white women and some queer white women yeah some queer white women some queer black women and some straight black women because that's how many people are like treating this in this way that, like, she has no tether to any of this content generation nonsense.
[464] Like, you know, Caitlin Cart gets criticized or people aren't super into her because she's straight and white.
[465] Like, what?
[466] And so I think, like, this is the perils of content generation as an avowed good sports center wants to talk about Kate Clark because she generates a lot of eyeballs.
[467] And I think that that is, in many ways, such a challenge because Yes, more people are talking about women's basketball.
[468] That's great.
[469] More people are talking about a sport.
[470] That's awesome.
[471] And more people are watching the sport and seeing the sport, and that's great.
[472] But I think that what people are not doing is taking the sport seriously as a sport that is real.
[473] It really speaks to this idea that there are people and then there are women.
[474] And those are two different things.
[475] Yeah, this is important.
[476] So just listeners, the way I'd sum that up, because I agree with everything you just said is, you don't have to play into this right if you're a white listener there is no race war happening there are a couple of basketball players one happens to white one happens to be black Angel Reese and Caitlin Clark that are both very good Caitlin's probably a little better Angel's team was a little better when they were in college so they won the championship and they're having a little feud and they have a rivalry they're having fun they enjoy it that's what you do yeah there's nothing so you don't have to come to Caitlin's defense you don't have to try to spur racial animists over this you don't have to be excited you can just enjoy it And that's my takeaway on this, because it is, it's wonderful.
[477] It should be good.
[478] Yeah.
[479] And also, like, you are allowed to engage in one of the great joys of watching a sport, which is, like, random hateration.
[480] Yeah.
[481] Like, you can have an athlete that you just are like, you get mad at and hate.
[482] But, like, in sports ways, like how I've been mad at former Pittsburgh Steeler, then New York Jet, now retired, his daughter now plays basketball for Oregon State.
[483] Kimovanov -O -Hawthon, I've been mad at him.
[484] for 19 years because he tore Carson Palmer's ACL playoff game, wildcard game.
[485] I was like, I've been mad about this for nearly two decades.
[486] If I saw Kim of Honolhoff, and I'd be like, it's pleasure to meet you, your scum, because he tore this guy's knee leg, but that's what sports is.
[487] It's like, yeah, the joyous success and the thrill of victory, but sometimes it's just hateeration.
[488] And as we've worked at him, Kendrick Lamar, Hayteration can be kind of cool and awesome.
[489] We're not going to have time to get to Kendrick, unfortunately, but the Kendrick live concert from this week was one of the great cultural moments that we've had.
[490] I'm with you.
[491] I hate you, Kevin Durant, Rudy Gobert, and Grayson Allen, and it has nothing to do with the fact that you're French or white or black.
[492] It's just that you're on the teams I don't like, and I didn't like the way that you acted in free agency.
[493] I've got to get to the mailbag, but we do have to at least do one minute on the nudes internet.
[494] Because I think this is important.
[495] You wrote about this for the Atlantic, the slow sexualization of everything online.
[496] Why did you write about this and just talk about what you think the evolution has been?
[497] There's always been porn on the internet.
[498] You might be aware.
[499] What do you think is different now?
[500] I think that the way in which sex is so tethered to content generation, I think in some ways, the nudes internet is actually my strident plea against the use of sex for content generation purposes.
[501] For example, like, if you go on Twitter at any one time, there are like weirdos showing a video of women doing something.
[502] and then yelling about how this is why Western women are failed or you see like kind of the weird red pill dudes entertain any number of sexual criminals like the way in which sex is wielded for content generation for money for power but it has nothing to do with anyone actually getting laid at all ever and so I read about this because part of this is that like if you tweeted anything you were you I tweeted about the great show alone, which is like one of the few good reality shows.
[503] It's like that in RuPaul's Drag Race.
[504] Alone is a show in which it's on the history channel, and it is a show in which they leave people with a camera and like some supplies.
[505] There's a supply list and you can figure out what you would take basically in like the most remote parts of Vancouver or any other place, and they're far apart from each other.
[506] And they basically are like, there you go.
[507] And it is surprisingly fascinating.
[508] because, you know, there's no, like, oh, you have to complete a challenge, there's no teamwork, just these people by themselves trying to survive.
[509] There's always, like, some guy who's like, I think I'm so tough, and then he makes it three days before bears bully him out, which actually happened on one season, there was a guy who was like, I'm never more than three feet away from a gun in my house.
[510] And a bear walked past his tent, and he was like, I'm out, can't do it, goodbye, please come get me. You know, there will always be somebody who makes it way further than you think they will or someone you kind of, You kind of root for people.
[511] It's a really interesting show.
[512] Anyway, I tweeted about that in the replies, full labia, full straight up labia.
[513] And I was like, wow, that's a lot.
[514] And so, like, the prominence of porn bots has been written about, you know, in many platforms, on the prominence of porn bots on Twitter.
[515] But I think I was getting at, like, how there is this way, one, you know, I was engaged in evangelical culture in the 90s and early 2000s at the peak of, like, pure.
[516] culture, where the thing that I learned was that the most important thing you could do is not have sex.
[517] Sex is the worst thing you could possibly do.
[518] Second to having sex would be getting pregnant, which is actually the worst thing you could possibly do, the biggest crime you could ever commit in the history of time.
[519] And as a side note, I think that people have not looked into how much that messaging might impact how people feel about having kids as adults when it's still, like, I was talking to a friend of mine about this, where, you know, we find out that a friend of ours is having a baby.
[520] And there's like a moment where you're like, oh, no. Oh, wait, hang on.
[521] No, that's, it's cool and good now.
[522] It's cool.
[523] This is our first main disagreement because I love babies and I'm a natalist, but please continue.
[524] I have pure joy every time.
[525] I love babies and I'm a huge fan.
[526] But there is just this moment where I, you know, if you spend the first, like, your entire puberty going up to like 22, having the idea of getting pregnant being like, we would rather you committed murder.
[527] Like, it would just be easier on all of us.
[528] If you, like, you know, shot someone, I feel like my high school would have handled that way better than, like, when one girl got pregnant and was like, get out, get out, go hide, hide somewhere.
[529] We will never see you again.
[530] It's been so weird to see this turn, all based on content, to, you know, we're all cheering for Elon Musk because he keeps impregnating people with whom he has no relationship.
[531] You know, women need to have babies right now.
[532] There's nothing more important.
[533] It is so important that you are having sex.
[534] And you're saying like there's a Catholic blogger who was like, you know, you know, it's okay if you get pregnant before you get married.
[535] It's just weird that Catholic women don't think that.
[536] And I'm like, oh my God.
[537] And so I was writing about this in the way because it is about it's about content generation.
[538] And it's about the wielding of sex.
[539] And the wielding of sex is a form of power.
[540] Like the ability to have sex, the ability to be wanted for sex being a power source.
[541] And I think.
[542] about that, like, especially online, when it's everything, when it's conservatives complaining about how high school students aren't sexy enough, when it's people complaining, like, left -leaning commentators complaining that, you know, we're not having sex because of capitalism.
[543] And it just is like, everybody just shut the fuck up.
[544] Stop it.
[545] The fact that we're mad that teens aren't having as much sex is, like, baffling to me. I will not be mad.
[546] This is fine.
[547] It's also, it's like when people show the like the graph of like teens are drinking less and smoking cigarettes last or whatever and I'm like good sex is not the end all and be all of human existence like the pursuit of it doesn't need to be for everybody all the time and especially for content purposes it just is like I just I was infuriated so I just hoping for balance you're hoping for balance on the internet you don't want evangelical schools telling us to be scared of pregnancy and you don't want the highest and best purpose of yourself online to be sexy picks so that people give you the most likes.
[548] Exactly.
[549] And I also, the swing from evangelicals yelling about how you need does not have sex to evangelicals yelling about how it's very unfortunate that women aren't having more sex because they aren't having babies.
[550] I'm like, pick a lane.
[551] Pick a lane, Martha.
[552] Okay.
[553] We have to get to the mailbag.
[554] You should read the whole piece.
[555] It's wonderful.
[556] Boy, people want advice from us, apparently, Jane.
[557] Well, I guess they want advice from me. I want your advice.
[558] I want to start with Jonathan.
[559] my siblings and I want to connect with our 74 -year -old Maga -Fother.
[560] He lives in his big Bear Mountain cabin and only texts me. He's cut off my brother and sister, thinks we're all woke snowflakes.
[561] His wife and he watch Fox News and get drunk every night.
[562] The last time we met, we argued about politics.
[563] How can we build a relationship with him?
[564] First, I want to say, I'm sorry, Jonathan, that sucks.
[565] And thank you for emailing.
[566] Do you want to go first, Jane?
[567] Would you like me to go first?
[568] I'm interested to hear what you think.
[569] But I think the biggest thing I have found for relationship building is doing the best to talk about things that aren't politics because you are connected by a thread that is stronger than any political mechanism.
[570] You know, this is your father.
[571] And so when I've had friends who are in that same situation, I think that really connecting about family and good memories, because what it sounds like to me, this sounds like somebody who is deeply depressed.
[572] Like the whole thing about like getting drunk every night and watching television by themselves and they don't talk to anybody, like, I think that there have been, I talked about this somewhere else, but like there are lots of things where I'm like, when people get really dumery online, I'm like, are you really concerned about the end of the world or are you dealing with depression that has not yet been treated or diagnosed?
[573] I mean, so I think like, one, recognize that this could be someone who is dealing with all, you know, some issues.
[574] that are way bigger than politics, but then are being fed everything they need to continue fomenting the issues because cable news, specifically Fox News, wants to keep you anxious and watching.
[575] Like, Fox News will never be like, everything's cool now.
[576] Good job, everybody, because somewhere someone will be doing something that they don't like.
[577] But try to find means by which you can connect with them about things that aren't politics.
[578] One of the reasons why I love sports so much is that I have gone to so many football games, or sporting events in which I'm aware the people around me are like they differ from me on everything but we are there united by this thing I remember going to like a Michigan Maryland game at Maryland and these very nice people offered me drinks and were like rooted for Michigan together and they had a giant let's go Brandon flag above their car and I was like huh huh okay and like there were moments where you can't argue about politics you can't do it but you can reform the bonds that is bigger than politics.
[579] I agree with that.
[580] I would add to it, and this is a related point to the sports.
[581] But when I was reading this note, I think back, you and my mother, we're doing great now.
[582] Hi, mom.
[583] But, you know, I was a piece of shit.
[584] I was a bratty teen like anybody else.
[585] And so when we would fight, like the thing that me and my mom always had was scrabble.
[586] And so we would have, you know, a beer summit, but not beer.
[587] It would be a scrabble summit, you know, where a lot of times at the beginning of scrabble would just be quiet because we're angry at each other.
[588] We're just scrabble.
[589] But over the time, you know, you begin to discuss the play on the board.
[590] And then over the time, you maybe have a memory about a scrabble game prior.
[591] And then all of a sudden, you're talking about scrabble.
[592] And then we would go to our separate ways and it would be healing.
[593] Like, this is just it.
[594] I don't, and it needs to be the person that's something that your dad likes, you know.
[595] Like, you just have to suck it up.
[596] And like, I don't know, does he like to hunt?
[597] Does he like to fish?
[598] Does he like to, whatever.
[599] I don't know.
[600] He's got to have some other, he has to have some other interest.
[601] Or maybe it's a past interest.
[602] maybe he no longer has any interest because he's depressed and his only interest now are Fox News and drinking but maybe there's something from your childhood you say like Dad, we need to go and go back to this play.
[603] I want to take you back to wherever we had a camping trip, whatever it is and maybe that won't work, maybe it will but that's your best bet and not taking the bait on politics because it's over.
[604] There's no hope as you said for like this person voting for Joe Biden or you guys having healthy dialogue about immigration regime.
[605] So out, like, try to have healthy dialogue about something else.
[606] Yeah.
[607] Also, because both hunting and fishing, great activities to do together while not talking.
[608] Perfect.
[609] Great.
[610] You just stand in silence.
[611] It's great.
[612] Yeah.
[613] Stand in silence together.
[614] It's beautiful.
[615] Big Bear Mountain is beautiful.
[616] And, man, it is tough.
[617] I've been there.
[618] But, yeah, you just got to try to find other things to talk about.
[619] Okay, I've got one more that's relevant for both of us.
[620] At a bunch of other mailbag things, but I'll get back to them next week.
[621] But this one is relevant for both you and I. it comes from Matt I live in an increasingly nuttier Republican state that's making life slowly shittier but we're raising a toddler and our entire friend and family circle is in a 40 minute drive plus we genuinely like our neighborhood and bought our house years ago when rates were low what should I do?
[622] I'll take this one first and answer Matt I've got some hopefully happy news maybe disappointing news for you you're living the dream your life is great actually You know, life is hard.
[623] A lot of people live in places with very bad politics in America throughout the world.
[624] The ideal place where you live somewhere that is affordable and where you have friends and family who love you around and where you also think the governor is great, man, if you've got that going for you and you're listening to this podcast, I hope that you just wake up every day with a freaking smile in your face because that just isn't life for a lot of people.
[625] Part of the reason why we've moved to New Orleans was, because it's for me, it's just the friend circle of them, but most of my entire friend circle is within a 40 -minute drive of where we live, related to the Jonathan question.
[626] None of those friends are MAGA, but none of them are really into politics.
[627] We don't really talk about our kids and fun memories and LSU and music and other stuff.
[628] And that is fulfilling for me, and that brings me an important respite from these conversations I have to have with you all all the time.
[629] And it's nice.
[630] And we have a Republican governor in our state that is making life slowly shittier, and he sucks.
[631] And Jeff Lander, if you ever want to debate me on this podcast, I'm happy to come do that.
[632] But, you know, it's the best of some bad options.
[633] And I also think that there are a lot of people who listen to this podcast who live in blue parts of red states.
[634] And I think that's kind of the sweet spot right now in a lot of ways.
[635] People in blue cities in red states are a lot of great blue cities in red states right now.
[636] And I think the people who live in red are parts of those red states, particularly marginalized people, particularly people who don't have a lot of money.
[637] It's a different animal.
[638] If you told me, I live in a red part of a red state, and I've have no friends and family around and I have to send my kid to a public school where they're demanding that they teach the Ten Commandments and they tell them that if they say that they're gay, then they'll be expelled.
[639] And I would tell you that you should probably move.
[640] But that's not your situation.
[641] Jane, do anything to add to that?
[642] Yeah, I think also, let's, politics changes over time.
[643] Like, there are some areas that have gotten bluer or redder over time.
[644] My parents, they bought their house in 1979 in Cincinnati, Ohio.
[645] They are in Cincinnati.
[646] My sister lives about, like, three streets away.
[647] And, like, that is where they are.
[648] That is where my aunt is.
[649] That's where my late grandmother was, like grandparents were.
[650] And I think for my parents, like, everyone that they know and want to be around who is not me is there.
[651] And so I think that having that real community is so important.
[652] We try to create, I think, especially now, people try to use politics as a replacement in some ways for community.
[653] But I think that political community does matter.
[654] But I've lived in places where I think everyone pretty much agreed with me politically and been like super annoyed all the time.
[655] And I've lived in places, you know, I live in Utah.
[656] I live in Salt Lake City, a blue area and a red state.
[657] And it's pretty great.
[658] You know, I've really enjoyed my time here.
[659] You do have a much better governor than I. I do.
[660] I don't know where Matt lives, but probably a better governor than Matt.
[661] It's about the best case scenario for a red state governor.
[662] Well, it is also funny because Republicans are very mad at him all the time.
[663] Because he's not like super maga.
[664] But like the thing that my parents have shown me is like Cincinnati used to be in some like a very conservative kind of backlashy place to be if you're a liberal.
[665] My house honestly felt like a blue island and a red sea when I was a kid.
[666] You know, I went to Catholic school.
[667] Everyone we knew.
[668] I I knew, like, their parents were, like, big -time Republican donors, and they were all, like, young Republicans.
[669] It's interesting.
[670] None of them are.
[671] None of the people I went to high school with think of themselves as being Republicans now, which is interesting to me. Make sure they're listening to the Bullard podcast, your high school friends.
[672] That's our target demo.
[673] Exactly.
[674] Now Cincinnati is, like, a pretty progressive place to be.
[675] Ohio is not, but, you know, that's, Ohio is a large state with a lot of people in it.
[676] like Cincinnati now has like a cool mayor and you know people are moving there and it's like a blue city in a red state and my parents locked in early and are like whatever happens they have their home they have their friends they have close family and that's it and so often I think that we permit politics to change how we want to live our lives in a lot of ways that are helpful in some ways but not so helpful in others and if you're in a place in which you're a close to friends family.
[677] You have a locked in community.
[678] You feel good at home.
[679] And you can use that place as a bulwark against the outer politics of the world in which you have a place in which people can come and feel safe and good and build a community that stands a thwart the politics of your state.
[680] That's awesome.
[681] Amen to that.
[682] Jane Koston, you're always a delight.
[683] I am tonight in a couple of hours interviewing Jared Polis, Governor of Colorado.
[684] So we'll be airing that on Monday's episode.
[685] We'll do a little news of the day, too, for folks.
[686] Because, you know, we went far afield today.
[687] Even though we didn't even get to all my topics, I wanted to discuss Victor Orban saying that Germany no longer smells the same because of immigrants or the secessionists.
[688] And, you know, we've got a lot more to get to you next week.
[689] So thank you all for sticking with us.
[690] Kelly and Jessica, we're going to get to your mailbag next week, Jane Koston.
[691] I appreciate you so much.
[692] Please come back soon.
[693] We'll do.
[694] Thank you so much.
[695] We'll see you all back here on Monday.
[696] Hopefully I don't embarrass myself with Jared Pol.
[697] list.
[698] Bill Crystal will be here.
[699] See all then.
[700] Peace.