The Bulwark Podcast XX
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[8] Hey, guys, usually on Fridays, I'm doing a big weekend interview for you.
[9] And we have a secret podcast for bulwark plus subscribers that is JVL and Sarah.
[10] But because you might have heard we have a very big news day and a lot of important things to discuss, I pulled the secret podcast over under the main feed.
[11] So it's me and JVL and Sarah.
[12] But if you want to support the bulwark and you want to get pure, uncut JVL and Sarah and you have not done so yet, join the bulwark plus plus dot the bullwork .com.
[13] All right.
[14] Up next, we've got me, JVL, and Sarah, and then Jonathan Martin of Politico.
[15] Hello and welcome to the Bullwark podcast.
[16] I'm your host Tim Miller.
[17] It's Friday, June 28th.
[18] And, you know, we had a little change a lineup this morning.
[19] We've got the next level crew here to respond to what was the worst presidential debate in American history last night.
[20] I've got JVL and Sarah.
[21] Hey, guys.
[22] Hey, buddy.
[23] Hey, buddy.
[24] Okay.
[25] So we have a lot of, I did the Sarah there.
[26] Okay.
[27] We have a lot of takes on the bulwark .com this morning, which range from Joe Biden should absolutely drop out to Joe Biden should seriously consider dropping out.
[28] So we will get to that.
[29] But I think it's important context before we talk about the Joe Biden machinations to talk first about Donald Trump.
[30] Donald Trump last night, in my opinion, gave the worst debate performance on substance of any presidential candidate ever, non -Donald Trump category.
[31] Maybe Admiral James Stockdale would be the only other one in the game.
[32] He defended a riot at the Capitol.
[33] He talked about immigrants taking black jobs.
[34] He, like, weirdly attacked his opponent's son for no good reason.
[35] He bragged about his golf game.
[36] And it was a performance that, like, on a scale of normal politicians, it was like a two on a scale from one to ten.
[37] And it was deeply, he promised retribution against his opponent on stage.
[38] It was a deeply scary and bad substantive performance, in my opinion.
[39] Do you guys agree with that?
[40] What do you think about Donald Trump's performance, Sarah?
[41] All he did was lie.
[42] And, you know, I just got out of a focus group.
[43] So obviously we're trying to focus group this right now.
[44] And it was not lost on, and these were all Trump voters who are kind of out on Trump.
[45] And so this is a category of people that we always.
[46] talk to because we view them as persuadable.
[47] And so they were very aware that the performance last night by Donald Trump was filled with lies.
[48] And in fact, many of them sort of said that he was lying the whole time and that he was saying crazy things.
[49] So I last night as I was watching it was like, you know, sometimes people say insane things, but like in a normal tone.
[50] And for Donald Trump's, saying things in a normal tone allows him to be winning, you know, the expectations game already.
[51] And So I was pleased to hear these voters have it not be lost on them that the substance of what Trump was saying was problematic.
[52] Like he wasn't doing anything last night that made these guys be like, wow, this guy's really changed.
[53] Like this is a, you know, so that is not where the voters were.
[54] And so I think that's good, right?
[55] Another thing I should have mentioned, like, he's asked about childcare costs and he's like, the migrants are attacking Wisconsin.
[56] You know, he did not engage on the substance.
[57] Like multiple times Jake had to be like, the question was about child care costs, you know, and like you started talking about immigration.
[58] So like to me, this was where Trump was being effective, though, right?
[59] Like he's asked about January 6th.
[60] He's anything he's asked about.
[61] He turns it back to his great economy, the problems with immigration.
[62] Like his prep was on how to deflect and pivot away from what are massive liabilities.
[63] And I think from a, just you and I both know when you are sort of training people for debates, there's often the like satisfy and steer as a tool, right?
[64] You're like kind of answer the question only the way a little bit that you want to and then quickly go to the things that are your strengths.
[65] And like he was doing that last night and he was doing it effectively.
[66] But it's a question of can people identify the mendacity in there?
[67] But to do that, you have to be sort of read in on some of the suburb.
[68] instance.
[69] JV