Whitney Cummings

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Maximus Mous.

[3] Hi.

[4] How you doing?

[5] I'm here.

[6] You're here.

[7] Yeah.

[8] That's enough sometimes.

[9] Sometimes.

[10] Well, we have a very, very fun guest today.

[11] Whitney Cummings.

[12] Whitney is a stand -up comedian, an actress, a producer, a writer, a director, and a podcaster.

[13] You know are from Whitney, two broke girls, which she created, made of honor, and the female brain.

[14] Her podcast is called Good for You with Whitney Cummings.

[15] I urge everyone to check it out.

[16] I'd also like to remind people that we are going to be live in Los Angeles on April 4th.

[17] So if you'd like to come see us party down, please go to armchairexpertpod .com and follow the link to buy some tickets.

[18] We'd love to see you out there.

[19] Please enjoy Whitney Cummings.

[20] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[21] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[22] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your.

[23] podcasts Okay, so I was late, and I'm very sorry, and I'm embarrassed.

[24] And as I was being late, I was thinking, because I feel this kinship with you, I'm one of the great projectors, right?

[25] I think everyone is like me. But I really think you and I are quite similar in so many ways.

[26] So if I had gotten here and I was you, and the host wasn't there, I would, immediately go, well, I bet he was on time when Gwyneth Paltrow was here.

[27] I would start going through all the people I decided to host.

[28] By the way, he wasn't.

[29] Well, I was on crutches that time.

[30] To me, I actually saw it as a testament to how close we are.

[31] Good.

[32] I was like, if he feels comfortable taking care of himself and whatever situation he had to do and he'll go, Whitney will understand.

[33] To me, it made me go, he doesn't think I'm some kind of narcissistic egomaniac and he knows I'll be able to handle it.

[34] Well, that's a really healthy thing.

[35] I'm glad.

[36] So good.

[37] I think in the past, before I was in any kind of recovery, I thought I was the only person with anything to do.

[38] Even though I had nothing going on, I just thought I was the most important person in the world.

[39] We all do.

[40] And I also, because I was such an adrenaline junkie and a codependent, I did so many things out of obligation that my schedule was just ridiculously packed.

[41] Also, just to keep busy.

[42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[43] So I would have had something scheduled to the minute when we were done.

[44] And I don't, I don't, I'm not delusional like that anymore.

[45] Well, I'm really glad that that was your thought.

[46] Because in a weird way it was, I was like, I'm fucking, you know, scrambling to get out of the house.

[47] And I'm like, you know, I think Whitney all understand this.

[48] I think my life right now is pretty much where hers was when she had a talk show and two sitcoms on the air.

[49] Like, just maybe too much stuff.

[50] It's too much stuff.

[51] Yeah, it's not healthy.

[52] Yeah, dad, love me. Beggy.

[53] Dad, dad, do you see me now, dad?

[54] Do you see me now?

[55] Do you love me now?

[56] Yeah, to me, I was sitting here and I was like, God, I feel like this is so much harder on the person who's late.

[57] Like, I'm fine.

[58] We were talking.

[59] I made a bunch of phone calls.

[60] I had a wonderful time in this gorgeous Narnia.

[61] And I was like, I'm glad he's late.

[62] This is perfect.

[63] I can collect my thoughts.

[64] I kind of did a little mini meditation.

[65] So you did me a favor.

[66] Oh, good.

[67] What version of recovery are you in?

[68] I'm in Alanon.

[69] You are.

[70] Oh, my God.

[71] I want my, will you take my wife?

[72] No, no. She actually had gone when we first.

[73] started dating, I think, which was very wise.

[74] But she doesn't need much shit because she's pretty healthy, annoyingly so.

[75] I know.

[76] She's, she just, it's every time I've met her, and I'm such a fan anyway, she doesn't vibrate on that sick frequency that we just know.

[77] Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean?

[78] I mean, it's, we've, we've done this long enough.

[79] You walk into a room and you just the most, you know, divorced, narcissistic, borderline sick person, you're like, want to be friends?

[80] Insecure megalomaniac.

[81] Totally.

[82] Where are they?

[83] Every time I see her, she's like, hey we have a great conversation and I'm like there were no sick sparks there no trauma bonding oh we were driving um we were driving on Sunday to a friend's party like on the west side and we were on the 405 and it was uh you know it was a parking lot and we're sitting there for a while and I said oh hon you know I realize this new trick like if I start going through a list of all the things I'm grateful for about the actual car I'm sitting in yeah it really helps with the annoyance of traffic I'm like aren't these seats comfortable and she's like hon I you can stop I don't I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not trying to work myself out of a place of annoyance right now.

[84] It's like the big deal.

[85] And I'm like, God, what is it like to just exist?

[86] She's so self -contained.

[87] She's so, like, I've seen her before be alone.

[88] This is a weird thing to say.

[89] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[90] But we were going somewhere with some mutual friends, and she was in a parking lot, and she was just kind of waiting.

[91] And I swear, and when I'm waiting, I'm on my phone, I'm checking things.

[92] I'm like, I've got to be productive every second.

[93] And, you know, and she was just kind of looking around.

[94] And I was just like, I wonder what that's like.

[95] Yeah, I used to, like when I was critical of it, my way of doing things was the only way.

[96] I would have described her as out to lunch.

[97] Like, hey, hey, aren't you annoyed by all this?

[98] Like, pay attention.

[99] I think for so long I conflated, like, being neurotic and consumed by fear and self as being, like, interesting.

[100] Sure, sure.

[101] Like, you have to be in some kind of agony to be interesting.

[102] And anyone who's not just, like, isn't on my level.

[103] Yeah.

[104] I have to imagine that you have assessed that it was fuel to your productivity now.

[105] Yeah.

[106] Well, yeah.

[107] For sure.

[108] Like, I got to be this person so that I'm not this person and I need to accomplish all these things to be seen as that person.

[109] Yeah.

[110] Or I'm just completely unconscious and I have no idea who I am or what I want.

[111] And I'm just in this sort of workaholic addiction of just adrenaline at all costs.

[112] Yeah.

[113] Yeah.

[114] You know?

[115] And just don't want to have to look at myself or feel any feelings.

[116] right so how often will you go to alinan i'm just moved kind of far away so i'm it's actually been interesting because i'm going to new meetings which is a new level of alinan recovery being around like new people in a new building and being like but they're not doing the meetings right oh yeah yeah like these announcements are not the announcements that we do at my other meeting it's like a new level of looking at my rigidity and like control addiction you know and like these people aren't recovered enough which is the next level of like alanonic criticism in judgment, but I would say twice a week.

[117] Yeah.

[118] Now, I have a loose understanding of Al -Anon, even though I grew up with my mom sometimes going to Al -Nine.

[119] But in general, you're treating kind of codependency in there?

[120] codependency, which is such a vague term, it's taking me so long to understand.

[121] Yeah, I think people cannot really wrap their head around what that means, really.

[122] It's so insidious.

[123] It's so vague for so long.

[124] And I remember the first thing I heard in an Al -Anon meeting, because I thought you go to Al -Anon because someone else is drinking.

[125] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[126] You know what I mean?

[127] And I first went in program with so many, you know, unrecovered alcoholics in my family also learned very early in Al -Anon that in order for alcoholism to be present, alcohol doesn't have to be present.

[128] That's a really good distinction to make.

[129] Blew my mind.

[130] Because a lot of what I saw growing up, I saw drinking, right?

[131] But I didn't see a paper bag over a whiskey bottle.

[132] You know, it was wine and, you know, but it was...

[133] So none of the romance.

[134] None of the sort of, like, sexiness of it.

[135] But there was a lot of obsessive organizing and obsessive controlling and everything has to be perfect.

[136] And we have to, you know, present ourselves to our neighbors a certain way.

[137] And your shirt has to be tucked in just perfectly.

[138] You know, that's alcoholism.

[139] You know, but I just associated alcoholism with alcohol, beer cans, you know, a whiskey bottle and like a bum on the street.

[140] Like falling down the stairs.

[141] Totally.

[142] Totally.

[143] Which we had, you know, plenty of that too.

[144] But so that really kind of is what blew my mind because also a lot of, you know, great highly functioning alcoholic parents are great at hiding actual alcohol.

[145] Yeah.

[146] Yeah.

[147] Yeah.

[148] As a kid, you just see something change at 530.

[149] You're saying something and someone's not hearing you.

[150] Right.

[151] someone's not picking you up from school on time like you don't associate that with alcohol when you're a kid no and in fact you know what this is the weirdest thing i remember when my father went to treatment i was i think 13 and everyone was like oh good he's finally going and i had this weird feeling of like oh i didn't put those dots together like i thought my father was unstable and stuff but i wasn't really like and we went to the bar all day long on saturday as the three of us, my brother and I and him.

[152] And I felt very embarrassed that all the adults realized he was an alcoholic and I was somehow in the dark about it.

[153] And just a weird reaction.

[154] That was like the only takeaway.

[155] It wasn't like, oh, he was going or he was an alcoholic.

[156] She was just like, oh, I'm embarrassed.

[157] Everyone knew this but me. And I didn't know how to explain any of that.

[158] And I guess now I, you know, no. I love that you just said that because that's such a big part of why it took me so long to go to Al -Anon because I was so embarrassed that I didn't know what was going on with other family members and stuff, and there's this pride and denial, you know, because they call it a cunning and baffling disease.

[159] It's the disease that tells you you don't have a disease, right?

[160] So the person that has it doesn't even know they have it.

[161] Right.

[162] And they do this great job of convincing you they don't have it.

[163] And everyone just feels like a fool.

[164] Yeah.

[165] You know, you feel stupid.

[166] Yeah, it's almost like an affair in a family where, like, no one knows, but someone knows.

[167] And also everyone knows.

[168] Like, everyone feels something is off.

[169] But the Al -Anon is very.

[170] addicted sometimes to protecting the delusion.

[171] Sometimes the Alanons are addicted to the alcoholic staying alcoholic because it gives them a meaning.

[172] It gives them adrenaline.

[173] Like, you know, they say, and there's like an Al -Anon checklist.

[174] And when I first went through it, I was like, oh, shit, shit, you know, it's we feel alive in a time of crisis.

[175] We derive some meaning out of cleaning up the mess and pouring them the drink and then waking them up in the morning and getting them dressed and pulling them together.

[176] And, you know, there's also this, I learned a couple years into Allen.

[177] I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is how I derive my self -esteem by surrounding myself with people that are such messes.

[178] Oh, you picked the perfect profession.

[179] It's so true.

[180] I mean, literally.

[181] Comparatively, I have my shit together.

[182] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[183] And there's so many people to fix.

[184] That's right.

[185] And that becomes its own addiction.

[186] So for me, I just thought of addiction.

[187] I thought drugs, alcohol, drugs, alcohol.

[188] and there's so many addictions that aren't really in the zeitgeist.

[189] Control is an addiction.

[190] Adrenalism is an addiction.

[191] Toxic relations.

[192] Drama is an addiction.

[193] A lot of people have a knee -jerk reaction to like sex addiction.

[194] They'll be like, oh, that's just an excuse so people don't have to, you know, own what they did.

[195] And I'm like, they can still own what they did and explain to you why it's an addiction.

[196] And my very simple kind of definition is if you're using this thing to regulate your emotions and you're doing it habitually and can't stop, that's an addiction.

[197] If that's your method, that you make something your medicine, that's an addiction.

[198] And I think that the sex addiction thing, you know, is always, because it just, I think that just triggers people.

[199] That's a hard word.

[200] Well, sex in general.

[201] In general does, right?

[202] I think sex addiction, you know, is very threatening to me for a very long time because it's just like, you're going to tell me someone's not a control of them.

[203] I just, I grew up around people not being able to control themselves.

[204] And when I talk about sex addiction with people and they have that reaction, I'm like, I'm not going to push it.

[205] Yeah.

[206] I know what that is.

[207] like you need to be in denial about this, but a lot of it in learning about sex addiction, I went to, I went into that area for a while.

[208] I don't identify as a sex addict, but I, the intrigue, love and intrigue.

[209] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[210] I'm a huge intriguer.

[211] Intrig.

[212] I, when I heard someone explain it, I was like, oh my God, when you kind of have these fantasy, essentially relationships with people that you either work with or, you know, just know of, and it's a way to kind of sort of hoodwink yourself into participating in society when you're...

[213] Yeah, also, isn't an aspect of intriguing?

[214] Like, you must put the lure in the water and see, oh, does this person want to go to a slightly shadier level with me or a different level with me?

[215] Like, is there something other than just were acquaintances?

[216] That risk -taking.

[217] Yes.

[218] So in my experience, it's like, I need to know every human being on the planet is attracted to me. Yes, yes, yes.

[219] Or optimally.

[220] Obsessed with me, frankly.

[221] Yes, I would want every...

[222] to somehow be in love with me. So I need to check in.

[223] I mean, if you are, you're disgusting.

[224] Yeah, exactly.

[225] The second you love me. Yeah.

[226] Like, yuck.

[227] But I do need to know.

[228] And then I think you're total trash.

[229] You know, we have this other podcast that is about this.

[230] It's about our different relationship struggles and dating struggles.

[231] And mine is this exact thing.

[232] Do you know your attachment style and strategy?

[233] No, but we're starting to talk about that.

[234] Oh, exciting.

[235] You might be preoccupied and then you might be avoidant.

[236] and you might be love avoidant.

[237] Oh, wow.

[238] So you should have had Whitney on it.

[239] We still can.

[240] We have a couple episodes who are to record.

[241] By the way, I don't exclude anyone.

[242] So I'd say I'd do it more even with guys.

[243] Interesting.

[244] So like there's guys on set and I'll start being flirty and I'll talk about their bodies and hopefully they'll talk about mine and we'll just talk about bodies.

[245] And by the way, I'm not conscious that I'm doing this.

[246] It's only in reflection where I recognize I'm doing this.

[247] which is I'm trying to hopefully get to a level with this guy that he's never gotten to with another guy out of because of maybe homophobia or something else or he's straight and I'm straight.

[248] Yeah.

[249] I want to have a unique novel experience with this person because then we'll have something.

[250] Yes.

[251] You want to win his interactions.

[252] You want to be the best he's ever.

[253] It's like memorable.

[254] It's some kind.

[255] Specialness.

[256] I want to share some unique experience that you've never had before.

[257] Yes.

[258] But then I want to be your best friend, but I don't have time to be your friend at all.

[259] Of course not.

[260] So please don't ever text me again.

[261] But I also do want to be your soulmate, even though I have absolutely, I'm not taking on new friends.

[262] Yes.

[263] Oh, boy.

[264] It's exhausting.

[265] What an embarrassing bull's eye for me. No, but I think so many people go through this and don't have the language to really identify it.

[266] So it's great to be talking about it.

[267] I mean, it's a type of hoarding.

[268] Like, I want to be everybody's best friend, but I have absolutely no time to follow through with any of this.

[269] We need the most high octane.

[270] Like, let's prick each other's, fingers and to be blood brothers or whatever.

[271] And it's also, you know, I think on some subconscious level, like with the intrigue stuff, you're also just creating an overwhelming situation for yourself or pressure for, you're creating future pressure for yourself.

[272] And you're putting yourself in a big mess that you have to untangle, which is just kind of recreating our childhood circumstances of having to be the adult that manages some big mess or just recreating the childhood circumstances of someone very needy, needing a lot from you that you couldn't possibly reciprocate, which was a lot of, my parents were very emotional.

[273] I have a borderline personality caretaker.

[274] I call them primary caretakers.

[275] That's what you call your parents?

[276] I don't know why I do.

[277] It's just mother is such a pejorative term at this point.

[278] When people hear the word mother, they already like roll their eyes.

[279] But, you know, it was just like a very needy situation.

[280] And I think I try to recreate someone like needing me really bad.

[281] Yeah.

[282] You know, because then I can be in that victim state of, oh, God, this person needs so much from me. I'm not consciously calculated at all while any of this is happening.

[283] I would describe it as a zest for life and a deep interest in people while it's happening.

[284] Now, again, in reflection, I must acknowledge what's it servicing.

[285] Oh, on some level, do you think you're poking around for someone's boundaries or just kind of seeing?

[286] Well, of course I'm trying.

[287] Yes, yes, yes.

[288] I'm deep because I'm also, I think, again, there's so many variables.

[289] It'd be really simple to say, I'm just trying to get everyone's approval.

[290] That wouldn't be complete enough.

[291] But yes, in the simplest way you're a comedian, I'm a comedian.

[292] The way you and I will joke when no one's around is going to be drastically different than the way most people will joke.

[293] Cancelled.

[294] Yeah.

[295] Cancelled.

[296] H .R. In the back of a cab.

[297] Bad news.

[298] Cancelled, cancel, right?

[299] So in some way, I'm always sussing out with someone I'm talking to you.

[300] How far can I go into what I think is funny?

[301] How risky can we get here?

[302] How, what kind of territory can we venture into?

[303] sure yes because i do feel most alive when we're talking about something that is terrifying to have made public yes how scary can we get yeah but and we're the only two people in the world now we've excluded and it's us against them now it's us against the whole you know work all the all of our other people co -workers yeah is it to gain a sense of like oh we're the same or familiarity like what is the someone sees me again i think it's all chicken and the egg like half of it is i laugh hardest at that when I'm scared.

[304] Maximum tension release.

[305] So I just, I enjoy it the most.

[306] In the moment.

[307] Yeah, so that's the chicken aspect.

[308] Now, the egg aspect is, um, what else is going out?

[309] Why is it that that makes me feel good or why do I desire that?

[310] It's worth knowing why that is a state I desire.

[311] Do you get adrenaline out of it?

[312] Of course.

[313] Yeah, so adrenaline turns into dopamine.

[314] Look at all my hobbies.

[315] You drove up here.

[316] I did know.

[317] I saw my hobby.

[318] Yeah, there's nothing here without 300 horsepower.

[319] I know.

[320] If I'm not, I always say this to Monica, she hates it.

[321] If there's not a pretty present threat of death on the table, it's hard for me to have a good time.

[322] Yeah, no, I'm with you.

[323] And that can be, that can be this.

[324] Because I'm married.

[325] I have a life to protect.

[326] And so, oh, if we're dancing around something that's, you know, threatening that.

[327] Now all of a sudden it's very heightened and add -eating.

[328] Yes, let me go to the edge as far as I can without falling off.

[329] Let me see how far I can go.

[330] So let's talk about why you're that way.

[331] Sure.

[332] You grew up in D .C. I did.

[333] Mom worked for Neiman Marcus.

[334] She did.

[335] Yeah, that's fancy.

[336] Worked in public relations for Bloomingdale's in Neiman Marcus and lived half in D .C. and then the summer's in Virginia.

[337] Why summers in Virginia?

[338] There was a lot going on and I would live with my aunts in the summertime in Virginia and then I lived with them for a couple years when I was a teenager when shit just kind of hit the fan.

[339] So I kind of went back and forth from this like farm life with animals to living in Georgetown and going to Neiman Marcus after school with my mom because we didn't have babysitter.

[340] so I would just, like, live in Neiman Marcus.

[341] It's a weird dichotomy.

[342] I know.

[343] I think that was also maybe my first little drug was shoplifting.

[344] Oh, yeah.

[345] Such a good one.

[346] A lot of people, that's the gateway.

[347] You know, I never knew if, because I grew up without money, if that was why, because there's a lot of people with money that shoplift, too, but it's a pretty solid high.

[348] Winona right, one -on -or -right.

[349] That's right.

[350] It's a pretty solid high and a pretty solid, you know, for weeks.

[351] You don't know if you're going to get found out.

[352] So you're in constant adrenaline and shame.

[353] It's a good one.

[354] Oh, man. I know.

[355] Because there's surveillance cameras that could at any moment.

[356] They could find out.

[357] What kind of things are you taking?

[358] Like little creams.

[359] Yeah, stuff that probably at the time, you know, I thought was a big deal.

[360] Like, paper clips from my mom's co -worker's office, like little things.

[361] Oh.

[362] Nothing major.

[363] So my brother and I, he's five years older than me. And so at this time, I think we were eight and 13.

[364] And we went into Hudson's and they had really high -end electrical.

[365] And we both wanted Sony Walkmans and we couldn't afford that.

[366] So he stole one that was, I want to say it was maybe $70, right?

[367] And I went all, I went to the $130 auto reverse, really expensive when we put them both in our winter jackets and we're walking out of Hudson's and a security guy stops us.

[368] I'm eight.

[369] So I'm fucking panicked.

[370] He saw my brother steal this thing.

[371] And he then asked me to open up my coat and I open up my CB winter jacket and I fold the edge over so you can't see in the pocket where it is at he looks at me and then he goes okay go find your parents and tell him we have your brother and this encapsulates so many reasons if my i were my brother i'd kill me because that was the story of our life like he got busted and i got away and that just kept repeating itself defining moment yes and i was so panicked that i walked like a hundred yards down the mall then i sat down on a bench i put the walkman on the bench and then i got up and i walked away.

[372] And then for the next, yeah, 400 steps, I'm like, someone's going to tap me on the shoulder and say, here's your walkman, and then I'm going to get arrested in the whole nine years.

[373] But yes, very memorable heightened experience at eight.

[374] That'll leave a mark.

[375] I'm obsessed with how people shoplift.

[376] Oh, tell me. Someone that I work with is comedian, he used to work at Sephora, and he said the way women steal lipsticks is they come in and they twist up the lipstick and bite it off and put it in their mouth.

[377] No. Are you serious?

[378] Oh, my God.

[379] It's my favorite.

[380] They're walking out with the mouth full of the lipstick.

[381] In their mouth and they just come back in and then bite off another one and leave.

[382] Oh, my goodness.

[383] Should I try it?

[384] Yes.

[385] It feels like it would be tactally pleasing to bite through a thing of lipstick.

[386] Last one, there's, you know, this really expensive face cream.

[387] And this woman returned it and said, I'm returning this.

[388] I want my money back.

[389] And he opened it, smelled it, and had to say, ma 'am, this is mayonnaise.

[390] No, no, no, no, no. Didn't even put like a cheap fucking lotion.

[391] Like, setafel or something.

[392] Jurgens.

[393] They come in, scoop it out, put mayonnaise in, and then try to return.

[394] Oh, wow.

[395] I just, I love that shit.

[396] Oh, wow.

[397] Okay, now when you were going to...

[398] It's so good.

[399] I know it's so good.

[400] Wow.

[401] When you were going to Virginia, and you were living with Auntie, were you a different person there?

[402] Did you have, like, a different character you tried on there?

[403] I started my very deep connection and relationships to animals.

[404] They had a farm, and that's when I went, oh, this is a relationship I can do.

[405] One where they can't talk back.

[406] And they need me. You know, she had horses.

[407] She had dogs.

[408] And I was alone a lot there.

[409] My sister did not come with me. And I think that's where I formed basically just the ability to be solitary and make imaginary friends and, you know, make imaginary characters in a journal and then just have relationship with animals and be alone, which I think I needed...

[410] It probably was incredible for your future creativity.

[411] And just being able to be a comedian on the road, 80 cities a year, and be alone all the time.

[412] Right.

[413] Which a lot of people can't be alone.

[414] I think that's when it crystallized, like, I can be alone for days at a time.

[415] Yeah.

[416] And be fine.

[417] I mean, it's not healthy, and that's why I got to go to meetings to make eye contact with people and connect with people.

[418] But I was alone a lot, and I would sort of check out into these fantasy worlds, and I would, you know, make these little characters in my head and these little stories.

[419] you know?

[420] And I think that was when I first started writing.

[421] I didn't know that's what I was doing.

[422] Yeah, yeah.

[423] And so when you would return to D .C. for the school year was the adjustment.

[424] Hard.

[425] Yeah, really hard.

[426] I just, I was never, I hate it when people in our business are like, I was never popular in school.

[427] That always annoys me. But maybe it's true.

[428] I don't know.

[429] I can't generalize about it.

[430] But I just, it was alone a lot as a kid.

[431] I remember being alone and making music videos in my mirror and organizing cosmet, I was just alone a lot.

[432] And that's just something people don't really talk about a lot.

[433] I think in recovery and just in this moment where people are, you know, deconstructing and examining themselves.

[434] It was an absence.

[435] Well, now more than ever, we recognize the power and essentialness of community.

[436] It's one of the pillars of any recovery for anything is community.

[437] And because on a sort of primordial level, when you're alone a lot, you know, our reptilian brain thinks we've been exiled from our pack or our tribe you know i mean that's why they say you know living alone is it can be so bad for you because on some primordial level we know we don't have the protection of of the pack and you start producing less serotonin i mean it's very real you know so do i have it that um because you had a half brother half brother yeah or you have a half brother and it was i assume through father yes sir okay so uh your dad met mom and then had you and your sister but he had already come with older brother yes okay but then they got divorced at five yeah yeah wow okay so these are very, I'm a, the fact that anything on the internet's true is always shocking to me. So I used to go to grandma and grandpa's all summer.

[438] Okay.

[439] And again, pretty solitary, but I loved it because they were doting on me and making me meals and like treating me like a 50s kid.

[440] That's so cool.

[441] Yeah, and I loved it.

[442] Drinking a phosphate.

[443] Yes.

[444] Coca -Cola galore.

[445] Yeah, so I really had that too.

[446] But for me, it was the nicest part of my childhood.

[447] That's cool.

[448] I think we forget about caretakers that aren't parents.

[449] You know, my aunts didn't have kids and I moved in with them when I was like 10 and they had never had kids.

[450] So they kind of just treated me like an adult.

[451] Now can I ask, so it was your mom's sisters?

[452] My dad's.

[453] Your dad's sisters and they lived together?

[454] They lived on a farm and two separate houses on the same space.

[455] Yeah.

[456] Okay.

[457] Okay.

[458] Yeah.

[459] So even that's kind of isolating.

[460] It's not like there was a family you walked into.

[461] That's still just a person.

[462] That's right.

[463] Yeah.

[464] You know, and I think that's when I learned about kind of chosen family, you know, how it's mom and dad and all these kind of labor.

[465] of what means mom and what means dad and, you know, grandma, grandpa, there's different people that can raise you.

[466] I mean, we used to be raised in a village.

[467] The fact that there's like only two people that are supposed to raise us now is just wild to me, you know?

[468] So I was kind of moved around.

[469] Two people that add up to have the time of one third of a person in general.

[470] Yeah, totally.

[471] And so to me it was, I'm actually really grateful looking back that I had so many adults to look to and to influence me and make mistakes and all that kind of stuff.

[472] But I just grew up around a lot of women that weren't married, that were single, that were like animal women, like horse women, you know, which I kind of just, horse women, like, women that could, like, build barns and, you know, one of my aunts had 12 dogs and a horse that lived on her porch.

[473] Like, her inside of the house was all lawn furniture because the dogs, there was, like, no point and having nice furniture, you know, like, you got to choose.

[474] Get up at 5 a .m. feed the horses.

[475] Like, I just, I, that's where I kind of just learned about, like, integrity and discipline.

[476] and a lot of things that I really needed.

[477] And so you obviously were a great student because you went to Penn. Which were so upset.

[478] I'm very smart.

[479] You more than me on Penn. Why?

[480] It's a unifile school.

[481] I know, but remember I didn't realize.

[482] Oh, yeah.

[483] What is unophile?

[484] We've invented this time.

[485] Oh, I was like, I was too stupid to even know what that is.

[486] We love fancy universities.

[487] We're obsessed with people who went to fancy universities.

[488] We're not even sure why.

[489] We just are.

[490] Yeah.

[491] Well, status.

[492] It's weird.

[493] We like status.

[494] It's weird.

[495] I mean, it's definitely weird.

[496] It is.

[497] It's, you know, I don't even know what to say about it.

[498] I'm always so embarrassed about it.

[499] That's what happens to these people.

[500] It's not even worth it because it just makes everyone hate you.

[501] I was saying, I've said this on here before, but my friend Christine went to Harvard Law and she did quite well.

[502] And I've been with her on 10 different occasions where people asked her where she went to school.

[503] And soon as she says Harvard, they go, ooh!

[504] And then she just has to sit there and be patronized for like five minutes.

[505] And I'm like, boy, what a reward for working.

[506] in your house.

[507] People are so chal.

[508] Everyone feels less than.

[509] Well, because people say, did you go to Penn State?

[510] Right.

[511] Which I didn't even know there was a difference.

[512] He just found out there was a difference.

[513] But then I'll have to go, well, no, I actually went to Penn and they're like, oh, sorry.

[514] And I'm like, well, you got it wrong.

[515] Yes.

[516] If I don't disagree, I'm a liar.

[517] And then you're going to find out, it's just, I'm an impossible.

[518] But, but can you maybe take the approach I do when I order food to pick up 100 % of the time when And they go, and the name, and I go Dax.

[519] And they go, Rex, and I go, yep.

[520] Like, whatever they say, I go, yep, yeah, yes, and.

[521] Because it's so much shorter.

[522] Yeah.

[523] So maybe when they go Penn State, you go, yep.

[524] Yep.

[525] But I've had people then the person next to me would go, you didn't go to Penn State.

[526] And then I'm like, I'm just trying to placate this person because I'm an asshole if I disagree.

[527] You deserve to say that you went to a fucking Ivy League school.

[528] That's amazing.

[529] Oh, that's very nice.

[530] I mean, it's, yeah, it is what it is.

[531] And I, I, but I'll bring up the reality.

[532] Who in this variable is going to change?

[533] The world or Whitney?

[534] Let's work on the world.

[535] Now that I see how people get into these colleges, I don't, there's something, I definitely, something sketchy happened.

[536] I mean, just with what we just saw with the Ivy League scandal.

[537] I mean, it's funny because there were some kids from, I want to say that applied to Stanford that sued Stanford that got in because they went now being in Ivy League school isn't even exclusive anymore.

[538] The value of my degree has gone down because you've degraded it by, you know what I mean?

[539] So now it's not a big deal.

[540] People sued to get their money back from their application fee, which was only like $85.

[541] Oh, boy.

[542] Yeah.

[543] You got to wonder, yeah, is it 1 % that's there on a shady backroom dealing or is it 25 %?

[544] It's curious.

[545] Well, my thing is it's never been fair.

[546] Like, also there was, I mean, I remember when I was in high school, people would pay to have SAT tutors.

[547] It's already unfair.

[548] That's what I was saying you're reading about that scandal and you're black.

[549] You're like, oh, that's cute.

[550] Yeah.

[551] Oh, now it's corrupt?

[552] Oh, got it.

[553] Yeah.

[554] The whole fucking setup is corrupt.

[555] This is the fairest thing that a billionaire has to spend half a million dollars on their kid going to college.

[556] I like this.

[557] I actually think they should have to pay more to get their kids so that other people can pay less.

[558] Like this could, this is actually the fairest thing I've seen so far.

[559] By the way, that would be the way to clean it out.

[560] It's just like you can get your kid in.

[561] Tuition is one million a year.

[562] And it allows you have to pay more because you're already too privileged.

[563] Yes.

[564] So for your kid to go here.

[565] Well, and the kid's a dumbass, I'll say.

[566] Yeah, exactly.

[567] Yeah.

[568] If your kid's dumb, you have to pay four times as much.

[569] Or even more.

[570] And then, you know, a hundred kids.

[571] We'll help your already privileged kid.

[572] Yeah.

[573] If it's worth it so much.

[574] I think so.

[575] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[576] We've all been there.

[577] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange.

[578] rashes.

[579] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[580] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[581] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[582] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[583] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[584] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[585] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[586] What's up, guys?

[587] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[588] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[589] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[590] And I don't mean just friends.

[591] I mean the likes of Amy.

[592] Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[593] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[594] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[595] So, but was being a great student a part of the control?

[596] 100%.

[597] I now look back in complete, obsessive control addiction because I felt so out of control.

[598] You know, I also wanted to make it.

[599] Are you comfortable saying what mom's kind of thing was?

[600] Drinking.

[601] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[602] She liked to drink.

[603] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[604] And obviously she probably was a little bit of an alcoholic as well, maybe.

[605] For sure.

[606] That's right.

[607] She worked her ass off.

[608] And it's weird because the idea of a workaholic is such a crazy term to me because most people have to work.

[609] You know what I mean?

[610] And work ethic is something, it's a virtue.

[611] It really becomes an addiction right when it either stops being fun or when you continue doing it despite negative circumstances.

[612] Yeah.

[613] And consequences.

[614] So for me, there's times today we'll be working on something that's never going to happen or that's I'm showing up 20 minutes late for things or I'm ruining relationship.

[615] That's what I'm like, okay, this is the work.

[616] Oh, that's a great way to look at it.

[617] Instead of the work ethic.

[618] It stops being a choice.

[619] Right.

[620] I don't know that I've ever applied that lens to it.

[621] But yeah, looking around and going, am I leaving wreckage in my wake because of this thing?

[622] Yeah.

[623] But we do this thing where we're like, but I'm busy and I'm so important.

[624] I did it last week.

[625] I started a new thing and we shot two episodes of it and I was really short with three different people.

[626] Like embarrassingly so.

[627] I had to make these long amends and I was like, I was just driving home so disappointed myself on Friday going like fucking hey you couldn't get through one week without being an asshole to three people and then having to say sorry and blah blah and then i started thinking and i've worked 15 days straight and i have two little kids and you know part of it is it's hard to be a good person uh in this situation i've put myself in so i'm not excusing it but i'm like yeah the the more that stacks up the less predictable i am which that would be yeah a red flag and something to go oh well maybe you're doing too much because yeah you're at capacity and your glass is, you know, half full.

[628] Yeah, because I'm now at the point where if I snap or something, I can, I can pretty quickly course correct.

[629] Like, I can pretty quickly go, okay, my halt, am I hungry, angry, lonely, you're tired.

[630] You know, I'm all of those things all the time.

[631] Not always the most obvious line of when you're micromanaging or when you're just being, you're not in acceptance or, you know, the serenity prayer.

[632] That's right.

[633] Yeah.

[634] And it's a wisdom to know the difference, really.

[635] Of like when can I actually, you know, change this for the better.

[636] And contribute and Why am I micromanaging and just trying to take my shit out on somebody and have a false feeling of control, false sense of it?

[637] Yeah.

[638] And then I'll say coupled with I don't spend enough time recognizing my position and my status.

[639] I literally, if I'm in an argument with somebody, the last thing I'm thinking of is, oh, I'm number one on the call sheet.

[640] Oh, I'm the person that's going to be promoting this, like that I have leverage that this director might not have.

[641] I just think I'm in a battle of good or bad ideas.

[642] Yeah.

[643] And I'm not taking that into account.

[644] And then when I leave and I realize I've hurt the person's feelings, my first thought is like, well, they should have then spoke up.

[645] But then I'm like, no, it's a lopsided debate.

[646] And I got to fucking be aware of that.

[647] It's just hard.

[648] Your physical presence, you don't ever take into consideration that you're like a tall, white, powerful.

[649] Exceivatingly well hung.

[650] But you're intimidating.

[651] Yes.

[652] Yeah.

[653] And I don't think that either.

[654] I just think I'm like we're talking ideas.

[655] It took me so long to learn or to believe rather the statistic.

[656] And I know in your post show you'll correct me, if I'm wrong, please.

[657] But that 80 % of communication is nonverbal.

[658] It does not matter what you're saying.

[659] So much of it is how you're saying it.

[660] Monica can tell you immediately right now what my nonverbal thing is where people start getting scared.

[661] And I'm completely unaware of it.

[662] Yeah, he like kind of does this like nose flare.

[663] I have a nose thing, I guess.

[664] His nose starts flaring a little bit.

[665] I now, like, if I know that I have to have some kind of confrontation with someone, what Al -Anon is so great for is it's in every program of pause, of at least being able to, if I need to say something, press pause, regroup because feelings are not facts, and delineate what's a feeling here and what's a fact here.

[666] Are we really running late, or do I just feel like we're running late?

[667] Because I've booked myself to the gills, and I have lots of shit to do, and I'm super important.

[668] So does it feel this way?

[669] it actually this way.

[670] And I have to step out.

[671] I have to send at least three text messages to people, run it by people to see if it's just an emotional thing.

[672] I can't go to the problem for the solution.

[673] I have to, you know, go find the solution somewhere else.

[674] And sometimes the solution is saying nothing, which is the most annoying thing.

[675] I hate it when that's the solution.

[676] But I now, when I have to have a confrontation at work or something, I will literally start to talk like this.

[677] Because I know if I talk like this, it's just going to be perceived as an attack.

[678] It's just going to be perceived as a criticism.

[679] I have to sit down.

[680] I have to cross my legs.

[681] I mean, I just now, I've just learned that.

[682] You're so right.

[683] But I will often think because I'm choosing my words carefully, but really my body is yelling.

[684] I feel completely out of control and I'm now trying to control this.

[685] So like, yes, I'm sending a much different signal than the words I'm saying quite often.

[686] But it's funny, as you're saying, I feel ridiculous that what I learned quickly in my many attempts to get sober is like I can't wait till I'm in Vegas to come up with a plan to stay sober like the day before I leave I've got to think through everything that might happen and I have to have some pre you know active plan to prevent me from making a decision in the heat of the moment and you're right I never think well I'm going to have to confront this how should it go what should I you know like a plan yeah I just jump in yeah no and I I do have to do that now of like sort of like, even if this does go late today, I'm just going to say nothing, just for today.

[687] And that's why a big thing in Al -Anon is just for today.

[688] We don't have to deal with tomorrow.

[689] We don't have to commit to next week.

[690] But just for today, if you have an emotion, you're not going to show it.

[691] One of my favorite things that I heard in program is don't just do something, sit there.

[692] And just having to sit there and tolerate the discomfort is really, you know, our drug, you know, alcoholics, their drug might be alcohol.

[693] Our drug is often taking an action, sending that text, sending that email, having that confront.

[694] When in reality, sometimes taking that action is just going to exacerbate the situation and make a negative contribution to your future.

[695] So a lot of time, the sober, at least for me, the emotionally sober take is like, you're going to say nothing and you're just going to be uncomfortable and you're going to have faith, which is why this is a faith -based freaking thing that it will not be like this forever.

[696] And in fact, if you just shut your mouth now, in five days, you can go, hey, last five days, I haven't said anything because I wanted to see if it was going to change.

[697] now I feel it.

[698] So now you have at least some proof to work with when you have the conversation.

[699] Yeah.

[700] There's a quote I love that's sometimes the best battle strategy is a masterful retreat.

[701] Oh.

[702] You know?

[703] Like the only way to win is to not play.

[704] Like it's taken me so long because I have such a combative like I'm going to fucking go to war with anybody who tries to fuck me because I've been fucked over so much and I'll just sort of the pendulum will swing too hard, which is making me think of what you said before about the making the amends and the apologies like that's such a slippery slope you know for me and just in the Allen on codependence recovery because we're the people that apologize too much for too long so the amends thing is so tricky because you're like I've like sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry and then when you actually do have to apologize it's just a very tricky area to know when to apologize sometimes an amends is a form of self -care it's not for them yeah The apology is not for them always.

[705] I do find more than anything, like, especially since we, you know, I mean, most people work with a lot of people.

[706] There's just so many interactions all the time, you know, and I just find, like, making a quick apology and forgiveness, just constant, like, radical forgiveness is just the only way I can get through the day.

[707] Yes, yes.

[708] Otherwise, I will just stew and stu and obsess and perseverate, which is a big part of Alonon.

[709] Perseverate.

[710] That's a new word.

[711] Perseverate.

[712] What does it mean?

[713] Oh, my God, perseverate.

[714] It's whispered.

[715] Perseveri, which is like...

[716] We both got horny.

[717] We'd love new words.

[718] Just like playing something over and over.

[719] Don't.

[720] I did.

[721] Oh, we're embarrassing.

[722] Should we name our Pee Baby Persever.

[723] Oh, my God, we should.

[724] I thought you know.

[725] I listened to that episode.

[726] You did.

[727] Did you name it something?

[728] No, we gave it a gender.

[729] We think it's female.

[730] Oh, did we mean it?

[731] Which I just loved.

[732] One of my favorite parts of it is I love that you call a toilet a commode.

[733] Well, I'm just trying to elevate.

[734] It's such a, I, like, I forgot about that word.

[735] It's a sacred place.

[736] People just kind of, you know, shit on it, literally.

[737] I love YouTube's relationship.

[738] It's pretty gross.

[739] It's mainly about pee babies and farts and poops.

[740] You guys are like a relationship in a sitcom I, like, wouldn't buy.

[741] Like, oh, yeah, right.

[742] Like, it's a little broad.

[743] Like, oh, yeah.

[744] So, he should, like, have a platonic soulmate so he's, like, more likable.

[745] Let's make her Indian.

[746] Yeah, totally.

[747] Let's get a diversity higher.

[748] Visually, they're going to be great.

[749] Like, she's half his size.

[750] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[751] She's Indian and he's super toxicly masculine.

[752] Do you say you're not?

[753] No, I don't.

[754] At the slightest.

[755] No, no, I try.

[756] I mean, I have some, some, some, there's some remnants.

[757] Do you ever get nervous on podcasts about saying something and did I say it right?

[758] I think part of the trick is whether you're hiding it or not.

[759] Interesting.

[760] I got in trouble for saying basket case.

[761] What?

[762] Because basket case, I guess, is in World War I. Uh -oh.

[763] If you had four limbs amputated, you could fit in a basket, you were a basket case.

[764] Okay.

[765] And so...

[766] Can I defend you for a second?

[767] No, it wasn't real trouble.

[768] I'm fine.

[769] I was like, I need a way to...

[770] But also, I'm like, who are you advocating for?

[771] Do you know someone that's a World War I survivor who's existing in a basket?

[772] I was just like...

[773] Can I meet this person?

[774] Kind of like our pee, baby.

[775] I didn't just peeve -baby is a real basket case.

[776] But it's also, I was insulting myself.

[777] The context was like, oh, I'm such a basket case.

[778] How dare you try to take me hurting myself make it about you?

[779] Yeah.

[780] Like, I'm not doing this goodbye.

[781] Oh, my God.

[782] And it's all just as, you know, I mean, the outrage about the outrage to me is actually weirdly more ridiculous at this point.

[783] It's all stacked on each other.

[784] Yeah.

[785] I was at the Twitter office.

[786] offices and I was talking about just the metrics of it and 20 % of people are on Twitter and 2 % generate 80 % of the comments.

[787] There we go.

[788] So, you know, it's very few people, but it's so scary to us that we're projecting, you know, this thing and it just feels, you know.

[789] But humans have always done this.

[790] There's also that.

[791] There used to be a town square where everyone would go watch someone get hanged.

[792] You know, the Romans used to watch criminals get torn apart in the Coliseum.

[793] I mean, we've always done this.

[794] We've always had an adrenaline addiction, self -righteous indignation obsession with, you know, it's like when you drive past a car accident and you have to look and, you know, it's just our amygdala is getting activated.

[795] Yeah, so I guess we've just lost some of the romance.

[796] Like, seen a guy fight a lion.

[797] Now that's something.

[798] That's worth.

[799] No, people used to yell.

[800] I mean, Sam Harris, who I love listening to on your podcast, did the whole thing about the Coliseum.

[801] And people used to come and yell out ways to kill the criminal.

[802] They would participate.

[803] They were not going to the Coliseum going, oh, gross, like shielding their eyes.

[804] They were pitching.

[805] Get his nuts.

[806] Exactly.

[807] Tear them apart.

[808] And their favorite was to tie a horse to each one of the limbs and have the horses run into.

[809] Quartering, they call it?

[810] Is that what it's called?

[811] Oh, wow.

[812] Which Sam Harris explained.

[813] You know what that makes a basket case.

[814] It's true.

[815] The limbs would be ripped off.

[816] I think, although, yeah, you hope that the limbs just come off from the torso, but I am fearful it really just.

[817] Well, it never works.

[818] So that was what was so fascinating about how.

[819] How do you work?

[820] No, no, because you can't get horses to run in four directions.

[821] I didn't even think of the predictability of the point.

[822] And the horses, they're packed, they're hurt animals.

[823] They all follow, so they all follow one, and the guy's like getting trample.

[824] I mean, there was a guy in the Roman Coliseum whose job it was to secretly kill the people that wouldn't die fast enough because none of the, a lot of the torture, things didn't work.

[825] You're right.

[826] Why would I think that it'd be any different from any other human endeavor in which there's a ton of error?

[827] There's some guy who just had to go up and like stab the guy and kill him.

[828] Mike, Mike, go get over there.

[829] He's fucking still alive.

[830] He's fucking embarrassing.

[831] To me, like the bumbling nature of public murder.

[832] Oh, my God.

[833] That's kind of great.

[834] You're right.

[835] We're all inclined and I'm guilty of it is like there is a certain arrogance that we think everything's new on our watch and that everything's the worst on our watch and that we will witness the end of this institution on our watch or, you know, there's some kind of arrogance there that I also share.

[836] Yeah.

[837] I guess maybe because I'm in comedy, I've always, there's always been arguments like this, you know.

[838] I think this is maybe the first time it's, it's, you know, been in the zeitgeist this much, but I tore all over the country and no one is talking about any of this.

[839] They're not.

[840] No. I mean, you know, I worked on Roseanne and I left Roseanne and it was the biggest story ever and, you know, and then I go to Tampa and everyone's like, what happened to Roseanne?

[841] Where'd she go?

[842] Oh, like, they didn't even know.

[843] Like, you didn't hear?

[844] Right.

[845] And then I tell them and they're like, well, why didn't she still do the show?

[846] Yeah, okay.

[847] We all knew she was nuts.

[848] Oh, my God.

[849] I should hit you with my idea.

[850] Cancelled Network.

[851] I have a pitch.

[852] You have a, wait, do you have a competing network?

[853] Nope.

[854] Cancell, what's called?

[855] Cancell Channel.

[856] Yeah, canceled channel or network.

[857] Cancell TV.

[858] Sell ads.

[859] Uh -huh.

[860] Take the money and donate to the charities.

[861] Boom.

[862] Okay.

[863] I like that.

[864] Why not?

[865] Can I keep 10 % of the profit?

[866] For administrative costs?

[867] Because listen to this network.

[868] Okay, Matt Lauer kicks us off in the morning, right?

[869] Bill O 'Reilly comes in and he gives us some cutting political commentary.

[870] Movie of the Week by Harvey.

[871] Cosby shows back.

[872] That's just a rerun, just a new one or the old one?

[873] It's a new one where he's like a granddad.

[874] Oh, boy.

[875] Well, we'd have to figure out his schedule.

[876] A lot of green screen.

[877] Yes, so one set.

[878] It's a bottle episode.

[879] But then we close out the prime time slot with fucking Roseanne, which was the biggest show in the last 20 years.

[880] There's no arguing that the canceled network is not a kid.

[881] Piven could do a like a cop show.

[882] Yes.

[883] Oh, we said Weinstein does the movie of the week.

[884] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[885] Yeah.

[886] Kevin Spacey could do a fireside chat.

[887] This makes Monica very nervous.

[888] So just again, very much joking.

[889] If you're able to raise, I mean, raise money and you, that's the only missed opportunity here is raise money to, you know, plan parenthood and times up and you can make us money.

[890] All right.

[891] Make them useful.

[892] There's a lot of, I mean, here's the thing about all these men that have gotten canceled.

[893] A lot of them are very brilliant men.

[894] I know.

[895] That's the thing.

[896] Some of them are pretty good at certain stuff.

[897] So at least keep doing, contribute in some way and don't just be sitting there.

[898] Do they get paid at all?

[899] I mean, no, they can't get paid.

[900] This is where it's really tricky.

[901] Do we pitch it to them as just a pathway back to relevance?

[902] No, it's just you are.

[903] Atoning.

[904] Atoning.

[905] Okay.

[906] Like two scenes.

[907] Not that you have any compunction whatsoever, but this is a way.

[908] to connect with your fans.

[909] We're getting bogged down on the details.

[910] I think it's such a great idea.

[911] Like, just get it in motion and then we'll worry about all the particulars.

[912] Yeah, I'm like, yeah, like, do they get to go in the edit room and have final cut?

[913] Like, we're playing this out.

[914] We're getting really into, like, that.

[915] But if it's a way to raise money and give it to charitable causes, build schools or something.

[916] Well, let's earmark that.

[917] You and I think maybe we should park.

[918] Yeah, I know.

[919] You have a lot of television experience.

[920] Okay, but I want to go through some of your fun accomplishments which there are many first starting with going to pen and graduating magna cum laude two things we share punked in in in our latin honors i don't think you remember when we first met you'll never remember it it made me love you instantly you were off punked i was on punk doing the secret season remember everyone thought it was canceled and then there was like a secret season yes and this was back i had like was 22 i was broke i had just read the secret I was making vision boards All I had was the metaphysical That's all I had to go on Were signs from the universe And manifesting things And I was at a Starbucks On sunset and Crescent Heights Where there used to be a version Megastore CD store That's how long ago this was By the way, I was most certainly coming out of an AA meeting There used to be an AA meeting in the parking garage of that place I know there's a lot of great meetings there Yes Okay You were at Starbucks and I walk in and you're standing right in front of me and I'm like, I just manifest my vision board.

[921] No offense, you were not on my vision board.

[922] But being on punked, you came up all the time.

[923] We were talking about you all the time and I was like, oh my God, this is the universe providing or something.

[924] So I'm on punked, a season that you, I mean, maybe knew about me, but probably didn't.

[925] You're like a movie star by now.

[926] I'll just add, so you have full 3D.

[927] Yeah.

[928] I am at that stage running from punked because I'm doing interviews where people are saying what's it like to act which was all in my head I felt like people were saying you're a junkie reality star why are you in these movies that was my narrative at the time so my narrative was he's just so funny and great and everyone loved you yeah right and I'm like not only I'm kind of running from punk at that moment in my life I would imagine yes which is I'm ashamed of it's like what I had a great opportunity it was wonderful it was a fun show and God bless that thing for happening because now I made a living.

[929] But in that moment, yeah, and then you get famous for a certain thing.

[930] You're like, I don't want to be famous for this thing.

[931] But all I wanted was to get the, you know, every time I do an interview, it hurts my feelings.

[932] Exactly, exactly.

[933] Every compliment anyone gives me is a rejection.

[934] And that's just how it is.

[935] Yes.

[936] You know?

[937] And so I was like, I'm going to go up and say something.

[938] He would want this.

[939] He would want me to say something.

[940] I'm like so convinced we're about to have this, like, magical, like, kismet moment.

[941] And I go up to you and I'm like, hey, oh my god I'm on punked right now and I this is so nervous I'm cringing and I and then my first thought was to go oh no I'm not gonna punk you I promise kind of making a joke which I'm sure is a joke you got constantly and also it's a cute joke I was thank you that's going to name my next special cute jokes and I then in that moment realized oh my god I'm not famous I bet people do this to him all the time come up to him all the time you're You were so nice to me about it.

[942] Oh, thank God.

[943] I'm just waiting on Pins and Eagle.

[944] Oh, my God.

[945] Oh, I should have told you the end of this.

[946] I told it should have told you Act 3.

[947] You were like, congratulations.

[948] Like, you just were so nice to me. And I left, like, baby in dirty dancing.

[949] I carried a watermelon.

[950] You know that I carried a watermelon like that?

[951] And I beat myself up for, like, days being like, why did you say that to him?

[952] That was so stupid.

[953] In your head, I was probably just a crazy person.

[954] No, I don't think so.

[955] No. Because I was like, I'm on punked, but punked wasn't in production anymore.

[956] Well, no, but I do want it to your earlier point, which is true, is about a year out from punked, still, one in particular I remembered, I ordered some burritos at Taco Bell.

[957] And I said, so yeah, four bean burritos, no onions, please.

[958] And the guy goes, okay, four burritos, extra onions.

[959] And I smiled and I was gracious.

[960] And I go, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[961] But no onions.

[962] And he goes, okay, four burritos, extra, extra onions.

[963] and I go This is a long day And I go I know I'm punked I got You punked me But no onions Okay And he's like okay Extra onion And this It just wouldn't end And I'm like I know I know what's happening And I'm trying to be nice about it But fucking please don't put onions all over Yeah I don't want onions So there were There was a bunch of that Where people in real life were punking me Yes Well or like you just You know Go out in the world And you're with someone And you're doing something Like are you punking me right now?

[964] and I'm like, I hate to break it to, but you're not famous.

[965] I also real life, I got hit on my motorcycle on Lincoln Boulevard, and I was laying on the ground, and the motorcycle had slid like 100 yards, and a guy got out of his car, and I was very clearly bleeding.

[966] And he goes, oh, my God, I just saw that, dude, he fucking, oh, my God.

[967] Oh, and he literally starts looking around for cameras.

[968] And I was like, oh, my God, I might die because of this show.

[969] Like, someone's not going to call 911 because they think this is an elaborate punk.

[970] I also had this crazy thing where after I was on.

[971] It was just, I was at a time before I was in any kind of, you know, recovery for, you know, being addicted to people's approval.

[972] And all I wanted was to be friends with what we were talking about before.

[973] And I'd walk into a room of our peers or, you know, people in our business and no one would talk to me. Yes.

[974] And I was like, how did I make myself a pariah?

[975] All I want is people to like me. And then I did the roast where I'm just like roasting people.

[976] And then I walk in a room and people are kind of scared of me. And I'm like, this is my living nightmare.

[977] Yes.

[978] Yeah.

[979] I think we do that.

[980] We subconsciously keep creating the circumstance to confirm the thing we're afraid is true.

[981] Always.

[982] Or you just invent the thing.

[983] And so after that, I'm just going to share this with you because you're just so forth.

[984] I had it in my head that you didn't like me. Okay.

[985] For years when you didn't even know what happened.

[986] That's how much time.

[987] I've only ever liked you.

[988] Which is plot twist.

[989] But this is what we do.

[990] Like you'll take a thing, magnify it.

[991] It's some narrative that's just going to make you feel bad about yourself that has no proof.

[992] It's the insecure narcissist.

[993] It's the, I'm a piece of shit in the center of the universe.

[994] Yes, I'm the piece of shit that the whole world revolves around.

[995] And yeah, what is deeply flattering to me right now and even something I can't relate to is that you would even want my approval.

[996] Yeah, it's called mental illness and I have no, it's wild, no offense, but it is crazy.

[997] Yeah, yeah.

[998] But I think there's also, like you're saying, you know, in the beginning, I, again, if I'm not entrenched with someone, it's a rejection.

[999] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1000] If we're not best friends, we're enemies.

[1001] It's so black and white.

[1002] That approaches, does that not approach?

[1003] I have a very thin understanding of borderline personality disorder.

[1004] Is that approaching that?

[1005] Because isn't their pattern that they meet someone, they are in love with them, they think they're the most amazing thing in the world, and then they create some rift, and then they become someone that's trying to annihilate them?

[1006] Yeah, so interesting.

[1007] So borderline personality disorder, I am not an excellent.

[1008] expert on.

[1009] I have a bunch of people of my family that have it.

[1010] I was convinced I would, because I'm very into like rescuing animals, which is a little addiction I have.

[1011] And I kept begging my therapist to tell me I was borderline.

[1012] So I was like, this is borderline personality, right?

[1013] And she was like, people with borderline personality disorder don't come to therapy and ask if they have borderline personality disorder.

[1014] Like they would never subject themselves to this kind of criticism because this would all feel like an attack to them.

[1015] So there's an inability to admit your character defects.

[1016] I was going to say that's the only time I feel a little bit relieved that I'm a narcissist is the fact that I'm evaluating quite often if I'm a narcissist.

[1017] Narcissists don't walk around saying they're narcissists.

[1018] They say I'm perfect and I'm the best and yeah.

[1019] And so yeah, same thing with sociopath.

[1020] Like all of it.

[1021] I was like, do you think I'm a sociopath?

[1022] And she was like, no, sociopaths, don't ask for sociopaths.

[1023] And so borderline, there's a great book called Walking Walking on Egg Shows.

[1024] Okay.

[1025] I've never heard about.

[1026] About borderline personality disorder.

[1027] Yeah, basically it's tricky because it is essentially a trauma survivor.

[1028] So it's, you know, something truly bad did happen.

[1029] Oh, that makes sense.

[1030] So they trusted someone in real life and that person did do something that almost destroyed them.

[1031] Yes.

[1032] So it really is.

[1033] The thing that's so hard about borderline from what I understand of just having to coexist with so many borderline people in my family is that they're not, they really feel what they're feeling.

[1034] It's not fake it's not manipulation it's not a projection it's they truly feel the pain they're feeling even though it's may be ostensibly histrionic or dramatic or you know not a right size reaction they truly you can't deny what someone's feeling right you know so I grew up around and I think this is part of the reason I struggle a lot of relationship it's like the tiniest thing would turn into an explosion and you're just like how could this yeah glass spilling lead to this yeah you know but to them it's such a bigger thing I think we've had one or two borderline personality disorder folks in our lives over the last decade, Kristen and I, and I only know about it because I was listening to Mark Maren interview that therapist.

[1035] Phil Stutz?

[1036] That's probably my favorite interview of this, Phil Stutz.

[1037] Something there's a great, I, Phil Stutz was my exclusive nightclub for the longest time.

[1038] I was like trying to get into Phil Stutz.

[1039] Sure, sure, sure.

[1040] I was like calling celebrities, be like, can you get me into Phil Stutz?

[1041] But he's got another therapist that he works with.

[1042] They did a great book called The Toolsteads.

[1043] Okay.

[1044] It has some great exercises about how to keep things right size.

[1045] There's something called the deathbed exercise where when you're dealing with an issue, you picture yourself on your deathbed very vividly and looking back of like, is this something that is worth giving my attention to?

[1046] Do you know I'm accidentally, how often do I say that?

[1047] Yeah, yeah.

[1048] I bet that's the most common analysis I run things through.

[1049] I love that.

[1050] When I was an overachiever in my, in teenage in college years, a lot of that sort of went along with eating disorders.

[1051] Disordered eating is a big part of you know control and perfectionism yeah and a lot of what gets me through even today when it starts to kind of bubble up like should i eat that should i not like that i picture myself on my deathbed and i'm like i will be so pissed off if i'm on my deathbed going like all the time i wasted thinking about food yeah yeah like i'll be so mad at myself there is a pride that comes along with just like being the a student you know i did i did this many sit -ups and this many push -ups and i only ate this many calories and I ate healthy today.

[1052] There's a sense of pride of being reliable and especially, you know, for me, I identify as an addict.

[1053] If I'm able to resist something tempting, I just feel good about myself, you know?

[1054] That's, you know, productivity and cooperation makes dopamine and I think that would go under the umbrella of cooperation.

[1055] So then how, when it tips, you know, look, eating disorders are, everyone's just so dramatically different that I found the more you try to figure it out, the less I even know.

[1056] Because I've seen, there's so much of it.

[1057] in my family, but to me, my eating disorder was really just like being as thin as possible.

[1058] You know, it wasn't about being attractive.

[1059] That's not attractive.

[1060] So it wasn't about being attractive.

[1061] It wasn't about like setting goals.

[1062] I think it was just about being as sort of small as possible without any real, really thinking about it.

[1063] And then a dysmorphia of not seeing how thin I was.

[1064] I look back of pictures and I'm just like, it makes me shudder.

[1065] I think a lot of the eating stuff is also a little masturbatory control exercise.

[1066] It's a very isolated way to not have to socialize with people.

[1067] I would only eat, like, certain foods, like, I mean, when I was, like, a teenager, I would, like, only eat, like, dried papaya for, like, three months.

[1068] You know, that was, like, my safe food.

[1069] Like, it was just, like, aversion to risk -taking in any way or doing it.

[1070] It wasn't about fat or thin because that's a ton of sugar, you know?

[1071] And then I would do the exercise thing.

[1072] So I feel like when I met you, I was probably coming out of a gym called Crunch.

[1073] Oh, yeah, you're upstairs.

[1074] I would like.

[1075] Dave Navarro worked out there, right?

[1076] And Jeff Goldblum and, yeah, nobody do remember.

[1077] In jeans.

[1078] You would come to the gym in jeans and low first and workout.

[1079] I was like, I love Hollywood.

[1080] I remember I first moved to L .A. I was on an elliptical machine, which was like all I ever did.

[1081] And Jeff Goldblum was on an elliptical trainer.

[1082] And then Jody Foster walked in and got on.

[1083] one next to her and I was like, oh my God, I'm about to see this Hollywood moment and they didn't talk.

[1084] And I remember being like, it wasn't acrimonious or anything, but I just remember being like, oh, I thought all celebrities knew each other.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] Like, it was just a weird thing.

[1087] It was just, I don't know, it was just like this surreal moment that I had.

[1088] But I would overeat a ton and then I would work out for like four hours.

[1089] Not to be gossiping.

[1090] And maybe this is triggering for people, but what's the craziest like meal you it wasn't like great it was more like I'd have like four boxes a cereal okay sure do you know I mean or like five of those protein bars so you know I'd go to get these like things called ice blended there were like milkshakes from coffee at coffee bean and then I would just go walk on the treadmill for four hours and then that would be an excuse for me to like not socialize not go out cancel plans you know I realize now I'm like oh that was just kind of my way of hiding and isolating and not having real intimate relationship and consuming myself with like a full -time shame cycle.

[1091] I mean, I know that all roads and addiction end at isolation.

[1092] That's pretty much where they all end.

[1093] But I never think of it as like subconsciously, that's actually the desire to begin with.

[1094] That it's just all is just a method by which to end up isolated.

[1095] Yes, be alone because no, if you're alone, your chances of getting hurt, your chances of someone rejecting you or hurting you go down dramatically.

[1096] And it's just a way to be, I can control things if I'm alone.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] I like you.

[1099] Me too.

[1100] This is amazing.

[1101] Oh, gosh.

[1102] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1103] Okay, so can we talk about I'm in favor of ROS?

[1104] I think people that like Rose should enjoy them, and I'm no one saying they shouldn't happen.

[1105] I've been invited to a lot of them.

[1106] Would you ever do one?

[1107] No, I've been invited to a bunch of them.

[1108] No, I love them.

[1109] I just, I know, I can't, I'm too sensitive.

[1110] I like for whatever great dig I could throw out there whatever innocuous thing that was said about me would fuck me up for a couple weeks it's just like a too much of an all or nothing for me yeah oh yes you're great at them like what's the relationship for you with it knowing what I know about now yeah I mean there's a reason I was able to do that very well when I was unconscious an unconscious person with no money and nothing to lose yeah and I think that part of the reason I think I was successful at it in the beginning is I wasn't famous enough enough enough for anyone to even make fun of.

[1111] No one paid attention to me at the Joan Rivers roast because I had no credits.

[1112] I mean, Greg Geraldo had the best joke, I think, about me. He just went, Whitney Cummings is here for some reason and kept going.

[1113] I mean, that was it.

[1114] And that's all anybody mentioned.

[1115] And then it's maybe a horror joke or a slut joke or Whitney slept joke or a Whitney slept away to this joke, you know, or something like that.

[1116] But I have not done the roasts for a very long time because once I had a monocum of success or things to talk about, it just, it was too hurtful.

[1117] And especially as a woman, there's only a couple ways to go.

[1118] Body, sexual history, face.

[1119] At the same time, I've been in the rooms.

[1120] I was a writer on the roast before I was ever a performer.

[1121] And essentially, if you can't get someone on their career, no one can say she's got a shitty career.

[1122] Right, right, right, right.

[1123] She's not funny.

[1124] I can't say you're not funny.

[1125] There's nothing I can get you on.

[1126] So then we're just grasping for straws.

[1127] You get to a point where it's almost a compliment when somebody goes for your appearance because they can't go after anything else.

[1128] That's true.

[1129] That's true.

[1130] You know, I remember when we did, I don't know, maybe I'll get in trouble for sharing this, but we were doing the roast of Bob Sagitt.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] And Artie was on it.

[1133] Okay.

[1134] And she wrote all these fat jokes and, you know, whatever, before he had gotten sober and lost the weight and, you know, eight years ago when you can make fat jokes.

[1135] Sure.

[1136] And Artie, last minute, had a very rough thing happened.

[1137] Is this when he stabbed himself?

[1138] Yes.

[1139] So he canceled.

[1140] But we've got.

[1141] Oh, Jesus.

[1142] 20 pages of jokes.

[1143] Oh, God.

[1144] And we have no one to go there.

[1145] So the producer just starts calling every heavy comedian.

[1146] To make the jokes work.

[1147] Oh, my God.

[1148] So finally we get Jeff Garland, who's not that fat.

[1149] Jeff has just lost like 150 pounds.

[1150] The jokes are literally.

[1151] I think Clarice Leachman was like, is that a beanbag chair?

[1152] Oh, no, sorry, that's just Jeff Garland.

[1153] And Garland's like, what?

[1154] He's not even fat.

[1155] So they were so brutal.

[1156] Oh, this is amazing.

[1157] So it's kind of this just like matching up of like trying to fit.

[1158] You know, and you also write a bunch of jokes and you write all the horror jokes.

[1159] And you're like, and a lot of times they're booked, you know, people will cancel and it's someone else.

[1160] And you're just, you know, I remember Susie Esman.

[1161] was on one year and we had all these jokes that I feel like we're written for like Pam Anderson.

[1162] Sure sure sure sure.

[1163] We were just like guess we have to do this enthusiasm and we're like you know be careful if she opens her mouth, come's gonna come out.

[1164] It was just like and she's like what?

[1165] Yeah, but by the way in other circumstances it should be a great relief to not take it personal because it's actually we didn't even write this for you.

[1166] I'm not minimizing but just the way that it's made.

[1167] I think it's important that people are able to just like take that with a grain of salt.

[1168] As well, you know, I mean, I remember when I did, I think it was the flavor, flavor roast when, I mean, Caratop was like very hurt.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] You know, it was really hard to watch.

[1171] I mean, Pam Anderson, I've already made an apology to her publicly, but she, like, she was ready to get up and walk out when I went for her.

[1172] You know, it was, it's brutal.

[1173] I think everyone, we all think we're a little tougher than we are.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] I think we might think we're a little less tough than we are.

[1176] That's like also my thing.

[1177] I become a perfectionist in my character defects where I'm like, it's taking me so long to admit I need help or that I'm vulnerable.

[1178] Then sometimes I'm around my house.

[1179] I'm like, I need help.

[1180] I can't fix this computer myself.

[1181] I need help.

[1182] And then I'm like, I can totally do this myself.

[1183] I'm just like, I really want to, you know, sometimes I like over correct.

[1184] But, you know, I remember Lisa Lampanelia and I crying after the Trump roast, just crying.

[1185] Really?

[1186] Because she had lost all this weight and they still were doing the fat jokes.

[1187] You know, it's like you just, you can't win, but that's the nature of the.

[1188] beast.

[1189] And I still love a good roast joke and I love writing roast jokes.

[1190] You know, like that's how my family communicated growing up.

[1191] Yes.

[1192] And so within my family, I love it.

[1193] We give each other shit a ton, but I know there's unconditional love.

[1194] And I just not sure that there's unconditional love with all these acquaintances on a stage.

[1195] And then America.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] And America.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] And it's tricky.

[1200] I think that the hardest part about the rose for me is, correct me if I'm wrong, like, I think we tend to train people how to treat us and when I was doing the roast and people would say horrific shit to me I would laugh because number one I did think it was funny yeah yeah for the most part it can be objectively funny you know because I'm like that's a good joke and you know whatever there are times I would fake laugh too and then strangers in the airport you know at gate four and they're just like hey cut like oh Jesus like I that is you just ruin my day but I also get why you think you can say that to me. And I think people want so badly to just connect with you.

[1201] And I don't think people are going, I'm going to go hurt her feelings.

[1202] No, you're totally right.

[1203] They're like, I'm going to go make her laugh.

[1204] Like, hey, whore.

[1205] And you're just like, okay, it's 2 .30 on a Tuesday.

[1206] Hey, you're fucking scared of shit.

[1207] Totally.

[1208] Have a good flight.

[1209] Yeah, and I'm like, you know, so I think for me there was that.

[1210] Now, you had this explosion, which was two broke girls and Whitney.

[1211] Was that the same pilot season?

[1212] it was so that's a ton to happen to somebody overnight in the workload of an overachiever it's not enough it was not enough i was like this isn't even close to what i should be doing yeah and then yeah because you then threw in a talk show in there too right were you doing all three at the same time oh yeah and i think i think that's when you first went on stern maybe around that era that is probably correct yeah yes yeah i think so and i black all those appearances out you do yes you're fantastic on that's so nice i'm just going to receive that i'm not I'm not going to argue with you.

[1213] Okay, no. But he wouldn't have you back if you weren't fantastic.

[1214] Thank you.

[1215] Okay.

[1216] The facts speak for themselves.

[1217] That's Howard.

[1218] Mm -hmm.

[1219] And just something happens to your brain, you know, just the 90s.

[1220] Please this king.

[1221] Yes.

[1222] And you're just like, I just want you to like me so badly and I'm so tired.

[1223] Yeah.

[1224] And you're so much quicker than me. Did you ever do Letterman?

[1225] It's the only thing to me that is the same.

[1226] I did Letterman a couple times.

[1227] And this probably won't hold up well in the Me Too era.

[1228] but I remember a publicist saying to me he loves a good perfume.

[1229] And she just was like, I'm not saying it's right, but just wear a great perfume.

[1230] And I went to wherever New York, Bloomingdale's or Barneys or something, and I went and I said, what is your best perfume?

[1231] This really happened.

[1232] And they said a perfume, it's called Child.

[1233] Oh.

[1234] Redfly.

[1235] I know, I was going to say, megan's law.

[1236] dot com call me and i put it so much on that i got a migraine i get migraines i can't wear perfumer i get migraines we were icing the back of my neck i was like pounding coffee i did an imitrex which i take for migraints and i go out there and at the end of the appearance which went very well he was like god you smell so good oh wonderful it was yes yeah it's a very big deal it was it was very worth it and i kept like waving my hand towards him like you see in the appearance that I'm trying to, like, get him to, like, inhale my child.

[1237] Oh, well, I...

[1238] It should be called inner child.

[1239] If they told me he loves when a guest has a cucumber in his ass because he thinks it's so funny to watch him, try to get comfortable, I would a thousand percent have done it.

[1240] So I wouldn't feel any shame about wearing a perfume.

[1241] Did you hear the thing about how he shakes hands with someone if he likes their appearance?

[1242] Oh, no. God, I'll have to go back in time.

[1243] I can't remember.

[1244] What happened?

[1245] I think that if he liked someone's appearance, he shakes their hand at the end, sort of like how Johnny Carson used to invite to the couch.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] Now, it's just tremendous.

[1249] You had two shows.

[1250] Like to have no shows and then to have two shows, as people who are not in this business would know, your average person probably sells, I don't know, 20 pilots before one gets made, 20 scripts before.

[1251] You know, it's a very low percentage.

[1252] I did have two not go before that.

[1253] Okay.

[1254] To pilot order.

[1255] Right.

[1256] So then of the pilots that get made, they make 25 or something.

[1257] Then they order two or three for the new season.

[1258] So, you know, just odds -wise, that happening is just incredible.

[1259] incredibly rare.

[1260] Right, right.

[1261] And I have to imagine overwhelming in a lot of ways.

[1262] Yeah, one of them I wrote and made with Michael Patrick King, who did Sex in the City and the Comeback.

[1263] So that one...

[1264] That's two broke girls.

[1265] Yeah, so that one had a higher chance just because of the pedigree of him.

[1266] Sure.

[1267] And we got Kat Dennings attached, who at the time was not doing television.

[1268] I mean, this was before movie stars did television, you know, it was a big deal.

[1269] And I think that the other one kind of happened because, you know, NBC was doing the movie.

[1270] these single camera shows, community, I guess the office was on at the time.

[1271] And the idea of doing a multicam was really just to like, because they're cheaper.

[1272] Yeah, yeah.

[1273] Multicam is, you know, for people listening that don't know, it's having a live studio audience the way Seinfeld and Friends.

[1274] And you film the entire episode in one or two days.

[1275] That's right.

[1276] And it's, they weren't cool at the time.

[1277] Right.

[1278] And they still, I don't think are.

[1279] They're very popular, but not in, with critics.

[1280] Right.

[1281] Yes.

[1282] You know, so for them to make this cost them nothing, you know, and they had nothing to lose and it was like, you know, this silly thing that I never thought was going to happen.

[1283] And they were like, let's just name it your name.

[1284] And we're like, well, it's never going to go.

[1285] So why not?

[1286] And I, you know, and I had written this show for Christalia.

[1287] We were best friends.

[1288] And I was like, what if we just, I was always writing with no intention of anything going.

[1289] Like, I would write specs for TV shows.

[1290] Like, I was just constantly trying to teach myself how to be a writer.

[1291] I wrote like a bunch of pilots.

[1292] I wrote specs for shows that never got made.

[1293] Like, I had no idea what I was doing.

[1294] So I just started writing the show.

[1295] show for me and Chris, and NBC ended up buying it, and we ended up making it, and we were like, oh, this is never going to happen, and then it ended up testing well.

[1296] Right.

[1297] And then it just sort of happened, and I was completely unprepared, and no one knew what was going on.

[1298] And you did two years of it, right?

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] Which is amazing.

[1301] Yeah.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] I think two years of a show is a good amount of time, I mean, especially because I sort of had no idea what I was doing.

[1304] And were you the showrunner as well?

[1305] No. Okay.

[1306] And I could never find the right team.

[1307] It was before I sort of knew how to hire and before I knew how to collaborate and I was so afraid that I was so an experience and I just started hiring people with a ton of experience, which sometimes works and sometimes does it.

[1308] I also didn't know about first drafts are supposed to suck.

[1309] Right.

[1310] Second drafts are supposed to suck a little lot.

[1311] Like it doesn't have to be perfect at this stage.

[1312] You know, I think especially for a multicam show where, you know, you table read a script and then sort of five days later you shoot it, wait to do the joke pass until Thursday.

[1313] Do you know what I mean?

[1314] Like I was like, exhausted.

[1315] I trusted myself trying to make a first draft perfect because I didn't know, do you know what I'm saying?

[1316] And I also didn't know, you know, this is a little inside, but I think everyone can relate to caring more than everyone.

[1317] I mean, when someone else is on your show as a writer, they want their own show.

[1318] Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[1319] I didn't understand that.

[1320] I thought everyone's there to make your dream come true.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] And I didn't know yet that telling someone I like it when you don't isn't helpful.

[1323] That's fucking hard.

[1324] Especially if you're like a codependent saying before I had any kind of codependence recovery.

[1325] I wanted everyone to like me. So I was like, no, I love that.

[1326] I love that.

[1327] And everyone was like, oh, she loves this.

[1328] Let's keep doing this instead of telling them what the target was or I didn't know that being a good leader was if you say no to someone, tell them why.

[1329] So they learn how you think so they can start, you know, adjusting.

[1330] I would just go, yeah, I love that.

[1331] I love that.

[1332] Yeah, yeah.

[1333] To everything.

[1334] And then I'd go change it.

[1335] And then they'd be like, we don't understand.

[1336] what she even wants.

[1337] I just, I didn't know that.

[1338] And I didn't understand that people are adults and they can handle the truth.

[1339] Right, right, right, right.

[1340] They're not going to disassemble and unravel because you told them, you know what, let's cut that joke.

[1341] They'll be okay.

[1342] They're pros.

[1343] We don't have to condescend.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] It's hard, though.

[1346] I find that to be the very hardest part of being the leader.

[1347] It's just saying no to people's ideas that they care about.

[1348] Another part of my, you know, disease is I want everyone to be healthy and live the way I do.

[1349] And if someone's not in the solution, if someone's just in the problem and not, you know, that's service.

[1350] I just have to sit there and listen.

[1351] Right.

[1352] And that's the part of this that has taken me the longest because I'm like, well, I don't have time for service.

[1353] I don't have time to help other people.

[1354] I'm very busy and I'm me. Which reminds me of the Phil Stutz, Marin.

[1355] He said something that really made me understand why meetings work so well, at least for me, is when you get around a group of people and you admit something super that you're ashamed of or embarrassing to a group of people and they nod the way you're nodding now, grace enters the room.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] And that's when you can have grace.

[1358] A thousand percent of grace.

[1359] And that's what that's what grace is.

[1360] Because you're so alone in your shame.

[1361] And again, we all suffer from terminal uniqueness.

[1362] So we think we're a unique scumbag on planet Earth and come to find out we're pretty much all scumbags.

[1363] And it's okay.

[1364] When you go to Pornhub, look how many views the video has.

[1365] you're not unique plenty of people are nothing to be ashamed of even the fucking weirdest one you could search probably 20 million views you're not alone you're not alone here there's even comments okay I want to hit you with one one theory of mine that you'll be uniquely qualified to weigh in on you're unique I knew it you are you are now the person that I've wanted to interview more than anyone else since we started two years ago is me is you and so we got that done so let me second is Roseanne.

[1366] Okay.

[1367] Because you know that I, do you remember that I was trying to get you on Roseanne?

[1368] No. Okay.

[1369] That never got to me. Yeah.

[1370] No. I would have, I would have, I would, I think you were on something.

[1371] I think you were on something.

[1372] Anyway.

[1373] Okay.

[1374] I would have gone on in a second.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] Wow.

[1377] I didn't know that.

[1378] One, what she said was horrendous.

[1379] I'll just start there.

[1380] Of course.

[1381] What interested me is starting with the fact that she's incredibly smart.

[1382] Very.

[1383] So there's not a chance in the world that she didn't recognize that that tweet was going to be problematic.

[1384] At least that's what I think.

[1385] So then I go.

[1386] And sorry.

[1387] Like it or not, not defending it.

[1388] 15 years ago on a roast, you could say shit like that as a comedian.

[1389] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1390] You know what I mean?

[1391] Per our thing about the roast.

[1392] So those might be concentric.

[1393] Yeah, it's a little blurry probably.

[1394] Yes.

[1395] Yes.

[1396] When she's at a roast and when she's not at a roast and is her Twitter an outlet for comment.

[1397] or is it, you know, yes, that in itself is murky.

[1398] But most importantly, what I looked at was she had to on, whether it was subconscious or not, she's just too smart to have not known that could have been a real big issue.

[1399] So then the question for me is, well, why would she do that?

[1400] And so my two active theories on it are this woman can't accept that people love her.

[1401] To a degree that she would self -sabotage many times in a row, I look at the same.

[1402] of the National Anthem, and I go, was she on her way there going?

[1403] One of two things, either, I know these people don't really love me. They're all saying they love me. There's all these signs saying that America loves me. 25 million people are watching me, but I don't really believe it.

[1404] And I'm going to test it.

[1405] I'm going to, like someone in a relationship that doesn't believe the person loves them and creates these tests to confirm whether they love them or not.

[1406] I don't believe I deserve it.

[1407] I'm a piece of shit.

[1408] I'm going to go get proof.

[1409] I'm a piece of shit.

[1410] Yes.

[1411] I'm going to make it.

[1412] Yes.

[1413] I need my outsides to match my insides.

[1414] Because the thing that happened with your show was that hadn't happened in a decade, right?

[1415] I mean, that had that first episode where even you who must have had optimistic hopes for it, that was unheard of like 25 million people or something.

[1416] That hadn't happened in a decade.

[1417] Yeah, it's wild.

[1418] And did she go, this is, I don't deserve this.

[1419] I can't possibly deserve.

[1420] Okay.

[1421] The call to Trump, which made a, you know, was a big thing.

[1422] was the day after the ratings came out.

[1423] Okay.

[1424] And the tweet...

[1425] Really quick, I don't know the call to Trump.

[1426] There was a...

[1427] Trump called her.

[1428] Oh, okay.

[1429] She called Trump or something.

[1430] Okay.

[1431] And she, I was gone by this time, but she tweeted about it.

[1432] And that kind of, you know, when the right numbers came out and went, oh my God, this is such a non -biased show that is both left and right.

[1433] Jackie voted for Hillary, or Jill Stein, the joke was that she actually voted for Jill Stein.

[1434] She panicked.

[1435] And Roseanne voted for Trump And Dan didn't vote Because we just thought he wouldn't have He was working And they got in a fight about it Jackie showed up in the pussy had You know, it felt balanced Yeah, right?

[1436] And then everyone went Okay, even though her personal politics Or she's into Trump, this is not a Trump show We never said his name We worked really hard to never bring his name up And then so everyone's like, This show's not biased, the left liked it, the right liked it And then the next day Trump called she called back and was like, I love Trump.

[1437] And it made it like a Trump show.

[1438] Right.

[1439] And it made the left go, oh, damn, we thought this was a show that was going to unify us.

[1440] And now this is a Trump show.

[1441] Right.

[1442] Or something.

[1443] Yeah, yeah.

[1444] So that was the first kind of like unnecessary drama, to your point, creating something after so much love was coming at her.

[1445] Yeah.

[1446] That next day and maybe some sort of, if I'm going to go with your theory.

[1447] And then the tweet, the infamous, notorious tweet was the day season two writers room started.

[1448] Yeah, again, way too coincidental.

[1449] Because it's just, it would have been so easy to not send it.

[1450] Yeah, yeah.

[1451] You know, it's easy to say to an addict, it'd be so easy for you to stop drinking because it's so easy for me to stop drinking.

[1452] I mean, I think that's what we're kind of doing.

[1453] But I think what I learned once I got on the show is there was a little history of these kind of tweets, which is, depending on who you are, either good or bad, like, makes it a consistent pathological thing or like more the reason to hate.

[1454] I'm not making a judgment call.

[1455] But there were some others that I think were dicing.

[1456] It wasn't out of nowhere completely.

[1457] Yeah, Glad pointed out some tweets from like three years ago that I just didn't know about.

[1458] Right, right.

[1459] You're not combing through people's tweet history as a hobby?

[1460] I can.

[1461] I have some bottom lines around social media use.

[1462] Okay.

[1463] And refreshing, I got to get out of there.

[1464] You're all caught up.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] I got to get out of there.

[1467] You know, but.

[1468] So if you don't know in SLA, they have bottom lines.

[1469] Like for some guy, it might be no hookers.

[1470] And if he doesn't go to hookers, he's got sobriety.

[1471] Or it might be no hand jobs at massage bros. It might be no intriguing.

[1472] It could be, you get to set it.

[1473] This is just where I'm not allowed to go past this point.

[1474] They actually, I went to a workaholics Anonymous meeting once.

[1475] And a woman had a bottom line that was, when I need to pee, I will get up and pee.

[1476] Oh, wow.

[1477] Like, I can't need to pee.

[1478] Okay.

[1479] You know, things like that.

[1480] There was a woman with a crafting addiction who was like, I will do one scrapbook a day.

[1481] my bottom line.

[1482] Like things like I love people's bottom line.

[1483] Yeah.

[1484] Well, I was going to, I was going to say it earlier, but I just throw it in now, which is I, of all the addictions, I'm most compassionate towards people's eating disorders because you have to do it three times a day.

[1485] The eating stuff is so insidious.

[1486] I have so much compassion.

[1487] I mean, I've been through it and I've been in enough.

[1488] And also, you know, the things are the eating disorders, you know, for anyone listening that has friends or yourself is because it's about control.

[1489] If people try to help you, it gets worse.

[1490] trying to help someone or, you know, control it.

[1491] Because you just want to shake someone and go, freaking eat something, or stop eating.

[1492] Exactly, because they can't see themselves.

[1493] I mean, I remember when I went to an eating disorder therapist, I wrote about this in a book, I'm so embarrassed to talk about it publicly.

[1494] This is my first time doing it.

[1495] She laid me down on - I'm fine in other lives.

[1496] Yeah, right.

[1497] And she laid me down on a piece of paper and drew around my body in a magic marker and made me look at my body as a drawing.

[1498] And like my thighs didn't touch at all.

[1499] and, you know, and I still couldn't see it.

[1500] I was going to say, I can't imagine facts are even relevant.

[1501] No, it's just, it's not rational.

[1502] I used to drink water before I go in.

[1503] Sandbag?

[1504] Yeah, I would literally drink those huge bottles of Evian water so that I would weigh more, you know?

[1505] And the crazier part is I thought I was getting away with it.

[1506] You're so delusional you think you're actually hiding this.

[1507] I mean, I used to, like, at dinner tables, grab a piece of food and, like, put it under the table.

[1508] And, like, I thought I was getting away.

[1509] with it.

[1510] Sure, sure.

[1511] Like, that's the delusion.

[1512] I mean, sometimes in addiction, we do it too, where it's like people, you're like, he doesn't think I'm drunk, you know, and you're like, everyone knows.

[1513] Yeah, eating disorders, you know, after having some family members with it, too, is the more you try to help the person, the more they recoil into their disease, because they feel less and less in control.

[1514] The inclination is to intervene, yeah.

[1515] And you can say, you know, you can set a boundary for your own sanity and go, this is just too hard for me to watch.

[1516] My bottom line is until you get some kind of help, I can't be in your life.

[1517] Like, you can do that, you know, but a lot of it is because someone wants to hurt themselves, you know, it's very hard to get between someone and their self -punishment or self -deprivation, you know, because there's getting a high off of that.

[1518] It's a trick, and there's also the trick about talking about any kind of eating source stuff is oftentimes it's linked to sexual abuse as a child.

[1519] So there's also so much to be revealed there that you can't tell someone stopping a sexual assault survivor.

[1520] Yeah.

[1521] You can't, you know.

[1522] So when I see that now, I just try to have compassion and just go, you know, stay in my lane.

[1523] And just hope that they come to some realizations on their own.

[1524] Or I can share, like, attraction, not promotion, what we say in a program.

[1525] What do you think, I'm not going to call the person out, but we were interested in a very popular TV show.

[1526] And by, I would say, all estimations, one of the leads is just literally dying in front of us on screen.

[1527] What do you think the obligation is for us in, like, film and television?

[1528] Do you think we should be putting people on there that?

[1529] What if they would have come to you between season one and two of Whitney?

[1530] And again, I don't know your history when you were peaking and not peeking, but let's say they had said to you, hey, we want to come back for a second season, but we can't do it with you at this weight.

[1531] You're going to have to gain weight.

[1532] What do you think your reaction would have been?

[1533] I think at the time, oh, that's such an interesting question.

[1534] And I want to be authentic when I answer it.

[1535] But here's what I'll say.

[1536] The reason I talk about it now is to kind of compensate for the fact that I feel like I put a verse.

[1537] of myself that was really skinny out in the world, and I feel guilty about it.

[1538] So that's part of the reason I go, like, I had a problem.

[1539] Like, because even if nobody's connecting the dots or nobody noticed or no one knows, you know, like, what is she talking about?

[1540] Like, I feel the need to clean up a mess.

[1541] Right.

[1542] Because I have regret about it.

[1543] Like you were a bad example.

[1544] Yeah, exactly.

[1545] Yeah.

[1546] Yeah.

[1547] I mean, I don't know.

[1548] Maybe that intervention would have worked because it would have given me the consequence I would have needed.

[1549] Was I conscious enough or emotionally sober to understand?

[1550] I probably would have padded my clothes or something.

[1551] I probably would have done some functional addict.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] Would have worn like bulky sweaters.

[1554] Like I probably would have been.

[1555] Well, as addicted as I was to drugs and alcohol, I did sober up for movies because I was more addicted to becoming successful.

[1556] One addiction kind of eclipses another.

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] And I think Tom Arnold in one of his books said that the only thing that saved him initially was being more addicted to being famous than cocaine.

[1559] Wow.

[1560] Wow.

[1561] his ability to be famous.

[1562] Wow.

[1563] I mean, it's just, it's tricky.

[1564] Like, I mean, eating disorders is so baffling, you know, and the smarter you are, sometimes the worse it is, because you could trick yourself, you know?

[1565] And so I don't even know if I knew I, I would have been like, what are these crazy people?

[1566] I don't know what I would have done, but I'm sure I would have had some cunning way with lighting and clothes to make it seem like, I'm sure I would have pulled some trick, you know.

[1567] But yeah, I don't, I don't know.

[1568] I adore you, and I love how honest you are.

[1569] Now, your podcast good for you, which you're doing still currently, right?

[1570] Yeah, yeah.

[1571] I just started it.

[1572] You just started it.

[1573] And are you loving it?

[1574] I realize how much perfectionism I still have, you know, because I'm just like, oh, God, was that boring?

[1575] I wasn't being funny.

[1576] I mean, I'm having it now because I'm still trying to figure it on podcast.

[1577] Like, you know, as a stand -up, the thing is you're funny every 20 seconds.

[1578] And I always just feel like my biggest fear in life is being boring.

[1579] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1580] Like, it cripples me. And so.

[1581] American Beauty, remember that scene or Are we allowed to still like that movie?

[1582] It's a great movie.

[1583] It is a great movie.

[1584] I think it won the Academy Award.

[1585] We can't go back in time and pretend it didn't win the Academy Award.

[1586] And did you know that the hand on the cover of the poster is Christina Hendricks's hand?

[1587] What?

[1588] She was a hand model.

[1589] And that just a little piece of trivia.

[1590] Of course she was a hand model.

[1591] The fact that someone looked at Christina Hendrix and went, I think your hands are the best thing.

[1592] No, honestly.

[1593] Oh, my God.

[1594] Somehow they're in the bedroom, Thor Birch, and she says, like, the worst thing you could be is boring.

[1595] She says yours.

[1596] But you are just so not boring.

[1597] Oh, that's very.

[1598] Thank you.

[1599] Whether you're being funny or you're not, if you're just being yourself, you're so interesting.

[1600] We could have talked to you for so much longer.

[1601] Yeah, yeah.

[1602] You know, and I also feel bad asking my friend.

[1603] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1604] I feel bad asking.

[1605] Whereas I have to just go, like, people will say no if they don't want to.

[1606] Yeah.

[1607] They'll be, they're grown adults, they'll be fine.

[1608] And then people ask me, and they're like, why haven't you asked me yet?

[1609] And I'm like, I just didn't think you'd want to, you know.

[1610] So it's just the next layer of peeling the onion of, you know, the next thing.

[1611] And I had a couple really big heartbreaks in television that were just things out of them.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] But you probably think I know about it, right?

[1614] Oh, no, it's all you think about.

[1615] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1616] All you do is talk about how big of a failure I am.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] I think everyone's memorized the total international and domestic of chips.

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] I assume everyone I meet knows it made 27 million.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] And then meanwhile, they're like, but isn't it at theaters?

[1623] Yeah, aren't you in a movie?

[1624] Yeah, exactly.

[1625] I think it did, it's out.

[1626] I've heard of it.

[1627] Like, it's on the billboard on my street.

[1628] Like, how much?

[1629] And then they're like, how much do you need?

[1630] Exactly.

[1631] You also needed it to be a huge.

[1632] You're a movie star with a comedy in a theater.

[1633] Isn't that as good as it gets?

[1634] What's better than that?

[1635] I hope that in this podcast of you representing, it's become like the number one downloaded movie and you now won't be able to.

[1636] to make this joke anything.

[1637] I'll find a way.

[1638] I'll find a way.

[1639] Yeah, because 10 years later, whatever, it's like the biggest downloaded movie on iTunes or whatever.

[1640] I'll figure out a brown line.

[1641] You guys are like, please stop downloading this movie.

[1642] I need this to be a failure.

[1643] Well, I adore you.

[1644] So people should definitely listen to good for you.

[1645] And then also your Netflix special, people should still be watching.

[1646] Can I touch it?

[1647] And is there anything else people should be?

[1648] I'm touring.

[1649] Oh.

[1650] So I'm doing a tour.

[1651] I'm doing 22 cities across America.

[1652] And do you like touring?

[1653] I love touring.

[1654] Oh, good.

[1655] I love it because it's a nice, reminder that Hollywood is not America.

[1656] And I love being around non -Hollywood people.

[1657] Yeah.

[1658] Yeah.

[1659] People are our boss.

[1660] And I like meeting my boss.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] You know, and I like seeing humans and...

[1664] Will the tour have a name?

[1665] It's called How Dare You.

[1666] How Dare You.

[1667] Okay.

[1668] So people should search...

[1669] Where should they go for tickets?

[1670] I don't know.

[1671] Okay.

[1672] Just Google it.

[1673] Yeah.

[1674] I think it just probably will come.

[1675] Don't buy the...

[1676] There's so much scalping now.

[1677] Don't buy it.

[1678] The tickets should not be more than $100.

[1679] I know.

[1680] But my Instagram, you can probably find it, I think.

[1681] Okay.

[1682] Great.

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] So good for you can I touch it and the tour is called how dare you do comedy and there's no politics in the hour which I always feel the need to say yeah yeah yeah okay well Whitney I adore you thanks for coming and come back all the time what a pleasure all right and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman good morning Monica hi there how you do we recording yes ABR you know that don't be silly ABR Do you want to update everyone or no?

[1685] Because some people saw a picture of you in the hospital, and they're pretty concerned about you.

[1686] A lot of people are asking me about you.

[1687] Yeah, we can update everybody.

[1688] Okay, because it is an update from the peeing in the bed a year ago.

[1689] Well, April.

[1690] It'll be a year ago in April.

[1691] You've already let everyone in on that.

[1692] That's true.

[1693] Everyone knows that I peed in the bed a year ago.

[1694] And there was an update more recently.

[1695] We had a conversation on here because it was brought to my attention that.

[1696] On a date.

[1697] On a date.

[1698] Love Boys date, that maybe it was a seizure.

[1699] Yep, and I am shame -ridden over this, because I, I, from the get, was like, big deal, you peed the bed, keep it moving.

[1700] I was so.

[1701] You were dismissive of it.

[1702] I was dismissive, that is one word to use, and certainly it would hold up in court, but mostly I just didn't want you to worry about your health.

[1703] Right, but you thought I was.

[1704] I thought it was just a standalone thing, and I was like, well, let's see if this happens a bunch of times, then we can start getting consistent.

[1705] But I was wrong and I'm embarrassed and I felt very sad that I hadn't been more supportive of you doing more investigation.

[1706] Well, that's okay.

[1707] You don't need to be embarrassed or sad.

[1708] I did do more investigation.

[1709] I already had a doctor's appointment, just an annual physical, which everyone should do.

[1710] Arm cherries, do that.

[1711] I should, yeah.

[1712] Even though, it turns out, doesn't do very much because...

[1713] That's kind of my stance on it.

[1714] I mean, they did blood work and stuff, so that's always good.

[1715] But it was a new doctor, and I said, you know, I was here last year.

[1716] I had this incident and...

[1717] Wet your Brooklynans.

[1718] God, Brooklynans were soaked.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] And you could tell as I was saying it, she was getting like, mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

[1721] Like she was, she was also dismissive.

[1722] And she was like, okay, well, we would never do any further testing unless something happened more than once.

[1723] And so it was probably a virus, which I was already like, lady.

[1724] What virus makes you squirt your sheets?

[1725] Exactly.

[1726] It was obviously not a virus, but okay.

[1727] Probably a PP virus.

[1728] Classic PPV.

[1729] So I left and I said, All right.

[1730] That was maybe a Tuesday.

[1731] And then my mother and I and two of our girlfriends, we went to Vienna.

[1732] Amy and Molly.

[1733] Yes, we went to Vienna.

[1734] We had the best time.

[1735] We had so much fun.

[1736] And then after Vienna, we had two days in New York.

[1737] And the morning we were supposed to come home, I had a seizure.

[1738] Yeah.

[1739] You were sleeping with Molly.

[1740] I was sleeping in the bed with Molly, but we were all in the same room, all four of us.

[1741] we get to the sad part was there any funny business when you guys slept together no no i don't mean like you hooked up just like you bump legs or anything butts bump into each other not that i can recall but i do think they were full beds they weren't like kings no i think they were like full size oh okay so you guys were pretty tight but we weren't touching um body parts that i can remember no intersecting circles no no circles were touching okay so i kind of came to and Kristen was there, and she said, do you know what I told you?

[1742] And I said, no. And she said, okay, you had a seizure.

[1743] And then I looked, and there was like a man there.

[1744] A paramedic.

[1745] Uh -huh.

[1746] And I guess we were in the hall.

[1747] I have very little memory of this whole time.

[1748] Anyway, we went to the hospital, and they did an MRI, and the MRI was clear.

[1749] Can I add a couple details of people on?

[1750] understand the severity.

[1751] So Molly basically woke up because she heard you kind of gasp.

[1752] Yeah.

[1753] And then you were stiff as a board.

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] And they immediately started Googling what to do.

[1756] And one of the things said like start timing it.

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] Which mom timed it.

[1759] And it was about a three minutes.

[1760] Three minutes.

[1761] Yeah.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] So real scary for everyone.

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] I feel very bad that they had to see that.

[1766] Oh, you shouldn't.

[1767] There's nothing to make you feel better than to help someone you love when they need you.

[1768] No, because that is, because when I was in high school, a girl had a seizure in the cafeteria, and I never forgot it.

[1769] Like, I never forgot it.

[1770] I still have that memory sort of seared into my brain, and it was one of the scariest things I've ever seen, and I didn't even know her.

[1771] Well, that's, I'm going to say, you were A, a teen, B, it wasn't your close friend.

[1772] But I think it's worse if it's someone you care about.

[1773] But let me ask you something.

[1774] Would you not love if I had a seizure to help me when you feel great in that capacity i mean i would i would help you i would want to help you and when you feel like gratitude that you got to be there and help someone you love i that's a tricky question i mean i would feel um grateful that i was helpful but i would not feel good that i saw you in that position i think i would feel pretty traumatized by that, to be honest.

[1775] That's fair.

[1776] I guess my desire is like that I would be able to prove to a friend that I would be there for them when they needed me most.

[1777] So I would look forward to the opportunity to demonstrate to you that I'll take care of you.

[1778] Yeah, that's your thing.

[1779] Your sister Carly said a similar thing to me. Oh, did she?

[1780] Yeah.

[1781] So, oh my, but I am so, so grateful that those.

[1782] three were there and that they handled everything so perfectly.

[1783] They called the front and then they called 9 -1 -1 and, you know, yeah, so I guess I was, so it was stiff as a board and I was...

[1784] Lys a feather, stiff as a board.

[1785] I guess Kristen thought maybe for a second that I was just like having a bad dream.

[1786] So she grabbed my face and then she like pounded my chest really hard.

[1787] Oh, I didn't know that part.

[1788] She assaulted you.

[1789] She pounded my chest.

[1790] She She did hurt me. I'm like, we got to get her shirt off immediately.

[1791] She's probably over here.

[1792] And then it was clear that that was not helping.

[1793] It was not a bad dream.

[1794] So, yeah.

[1795] And, oh, but then you're in the hospital for.

[1796] But my eyes were rolling into the back of my head, and I was foaming at the mouth.

[1797] Yeah, I didn't know if you wanted to add that part.

[1798] I was just going to leave that to you.

[1799] Oh, well.

[1800] Well, it's, it's, yeah, part of it.

[1801] So anyway, so then we spent the whole day at the hospital.

[1802] But the good news is we got to have Emily Burger a second time.

[1803] Totally worth it.

[1804] Because we stayed an extra night and we got more Emily Burger.

[1805] God, that burger is so good.

[1806] A lot of people were upset at me because on Instagram I said, if this was my last meal, that'd be okay.

[1807] Prior to the seizure.

[1808] Yes.

[1809] Yes.

[1810] Then a day later I had a seizure.

[1811] Uh -huh.

[1812] And so people didn't like that I said that.

[1813] Right.

[1814] So I apologize, but also I stand by it.

[1815] Yeah, if you got to pick a last meal.

[1816] Exactly.

[1817] As we just learned from A .K., his is going to include Dairy Queen, probably mine too.

[1818] I'd probably do an Emily's burger followed by a two -pronged peanut buster parfei and a banana spilt blizzard.

[1819] Well, I also in New York tried a new dessert this cake from Sipriani's, maybe.

[1820] Sipriani's.

[1821] Have a nice piece of cake.

[1822] Introduced to us by.

[1823] Molly and got and it it looked very average at the sight of it and I was like oh no Molly we let the taste to do the showing off no and it was unbelievable it was a vanilla cake but it had sort of this marshmallow topping vanilla meringue it was unbelievable so I might add that into my last meal who knows okay I got Emily burger twice it held up to our insanely high bar that we have fetishize this burger Yeah, for a year.

[1824] And, man, it delivered.

[1825] It was so good.

[1826] Anyway, MRI was clear.

[1827] No brain cancer.

[1828] It was clear.

[1829] Yes, I don't have any tumors.

[1830] I'm seeing a neurologist tomorrow here in Los Angeles.

[1831] But you're scared, appropriately so.

[1832] Yeah.

[1833] Yeah.

[1834] You've been dealing with some profound fear for the last five days.

[1835] Yeah.

[1836] I mean, it really was out of the blue.

[1837] Mm -hmm.

[1838] You immediately go to God, what if I was alone?

[1839] Right?

[1840] Yeah, I mean, it's so weird because I was.

[1841] I had, like, this all happened, and I was alone, and, and, I mean, it was fine.

[1842] It was fine.

[1843] It was fine, but you didn't really have conclusive evidence that you had had a seizure because no one observed it.

[1844] Whereas this scenario, you know how long it lasted, you know everything that happened.

[1845] Yeah.

[1846] But mostly you're on a medication to make sure you don't have another one until you see the neurologist and everything in the, in the medication is making you feel fuzzy and a little bit loopy and I don't like it yeah and you're staying at our house now which I love so I think the two the headlines are second Emily burger and you live with us now so to me it's a big big win selfishly yeah I feel like vulnerable yeah I feel scared and vulnerable and I also kind of feel like it was a before I mean I don't want to feel like this so I'm trying to not, but right now I'm, I feel like it was a before and after.

[1847] Like, that is like a moment in my life that there was a before and now there's an after.

[1848] Oh.

[1849] Now that, I don't know, that I'm going to have these indefinitely, that I can't drive right now.

[1850] I don't know how long I'm not going to be able to do that.

[1851] It just, yeah.

[1852] Yeah, it's in the very scary part.

[1853] You have no info.

[1854] You don't know what your future is going to look like.

[1855] and that creates a ton of anxiety, and that's normal.

[1856] Yeah.

[1857] And then you've got to go AA with it and go, today, I didn't have a seizure.

[1858] Yeah.

[1859] Not having one now.

[1860] Yeah.

[1861] I don't have cancer.

[1862] Mm -hmm.

[1863] At least in the brain.

[1864] You might have pachydermous cancer.

[1865] I might have spinal tumors because they didn't check for that.

[1866] And one of the arm cherries said that originally.

[1867] Oh, wow.

[1868] Originally, when I first started talking about peeing at one of the arm cherries.

[1869] wrote.

[1870] If that happens to Monica again, she needs to go to the ER immediately because I'm a spinal surgeon and that's indicative of a spinal tumor.

[1871] Okay.

[1872] I don't think you have a spinal tumor.

[1873] I don't either.

[1874] I don't want to be dismissive of it.

[1875] I do have bad back pain.

[1876] Well, but that's from the intense clenching while you're stiff as a boardlight as a feather.

[1877] Yeah.

[1878] Okay, well, that's the update.

[1879] That's the update.

[1880] We love you.

[1881] And you're I'm not being dismissive, but I am also telling you you're going to be fine and have a wonderful life.

[1882] I know a bit for sure.

[1883] Just like I knew about your house.

[1884] That's true.

[1885] It's all going to be fine.

[1886] Whitney Cummings.

[1887] Whitney Cummings was a delight.

[1888] Man, is she insightful?

[1889] So what's happened on here before, it's not that you and I have ever disliked anybody.

[1890] Never.

[1891] But there are times when you're really pulling for a guest, and I'm like, okay, if you really want this person.

[1892] And then they come in and I fall in love with them.

[1893] This has happened several times.

[1894] And then this is one of the rare cases where I'm like, oh, my God, we got to have Whitney.

[1895] And you're like, oh, okay.

[1896] And then you are just in love with her.

[1897] Yeah, because you've heard her interviewed before, and I haven't.

[1898] And, yeah, I was definitely not opposed to having her, but I was like, okay, sure.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] And she really blew us out of the water.

[1901] Yeah, she's awesome.

[1902] Yeah, she's so cool and so insightful and thoughtful and committed.

[1903] She posted a video yesterday?

[1904] Uh -huh.

[1905] I think it was yesterday.

[1906] It's her.

[1907] She has a ring.

[1908] Oh.

[1909] And it's her in the middle of the night, standing in her driveway, staring at her garage.

[1910] And she said, this is footage of me sleepwalking.

[1911] Oh, my God.

[1912] Like, oh, wow.

[1913] I mean, should you lock yourself in your room or something?

[1914] That's scary.

[1915] Speaking of that, so I also, I guess the night before my seizure, I slept, talked.

[1916] Oh.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] What were you saying?

[1919] I said, oh, my God, thank you.

[1920] That's what you were saying.

[1921] Yes.

[1922] Oh, my God.

[1923] Maybe you were a mini mouse in the ring.

[1924] Oh, my God.

[1925] You know, Aaron talks in his sleep.

[1926] He does.

[1927] Incessantly.

[1928] I've heard him talk, I mean, volumes.

[1929] Wow.

[1930] And one of my favorites was he's, like, dead asleep, and I hear, fucking, fucking Dan.

[1931] Dan is fucking big chrome Ferrari.

[1932] Big Dan and his chrome Ferrari And I'm like, what dream is he having about Big Dan and his big chrome Ferrari?

[1933] Oh, that's really funny.

[1934] Yeah.

[1935] Anyway, so sleep stuff's weird.

[1936] My thought right now, the comforting thought I have is that maybe these seizures are connected somehow to sleep and that I can get that figured out.

[1937] yeah um because they both happened in my sleep and i slept talk the night before so maybe something was just awry yeah let's get you on some CBD uh PM CBD PM probably actually CBD is supposed to be really good for seizures so wouldn't be bad idea well that's what the C and CBD stands for seizure seizure is with an F oh okay all right what they got that wrong I better tell them I better call the CBD commission uh yeah but anyway yeah So she was sleepwalking.

[1938] Yeah, just staring at her garage in the middle of three in the morning.

[1939] Thank you, God for rain.

[1940] Yeah, I mean, I wonder if she would not know that she even did that.

[1941] Yeah.

[1942] I don't know if she made it back into her bed or what.

[1943] Oh, my God.

[1944] I used to sleepwalk when I was a kid.

[1945] I used to, oh, boy.

[1946] One time I had a dream I was in a room with no windows or doors.

[1947] Oh.

[1948] I've had that dream several times.

[1949] Really?

[1950] recurring.

[1951] And I woke up with my whole family going, Dax, Dax, wake up.

[1952] And I was in my brother's room, standing on his bed, banging.

[1953] on the wall.

[1954] Mm -mm.

[1955] And that was down two flights of stairs.

[1956] He was down in the basement and I was up top.

[1957] Yikes.

[1958] I used to check on him a lot too, sleepwalking.

[1959] Ew.

[1960] If I were him, I would have been.

[1961] No, it's because I loved him.

[1962] No, I would have been so scared of you with your demented sleep eyes.

[1963] I had cute round eyes.

[1964] I was a cute little boy.

[1965] I was five years younger.

[1966] So it was just like his little squirt was checking.

[1967] Can you imagine your, you're, asleep and you wake up and there's a small boy with glowing white eyes.

[1968] Ew, that's so scary.

[1969] Let's add some details.

[1970] Freckles, uh, blue eyes.

[1971] Freckles, blue sleepy eyes.

[1972] Blue sleepy, glassy eyes.

[1973] Looks and holding a knife.

[1974] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1975] You never know.

[1976] You just don't know.

[1977] So she said that 80 % of communication is nonverbal.

[1978] And that's like a common phrase.

[1979] Mm -hmm.

[1980] In psychology today, it said, how often have you heard someone say over 80 % of communication is body language or nonverbal?

[1981] The numbers represent the percentages of importance that varying communication channels have.

[1982] The belief is that 55 % of communication is body language, 38 % is the tone of voice, and 7 % is the actual words spoken.

[1983] Oh, wow.

[1984] But it also says that this varies between people.

[1985] and one way of increasing accuracy is by applying the three Cs of nonverbal communication.

[1986] Seizures?

[1987] Context, clusters, and congruence.

[1988] Context includes what environment the situation is taking place in, the history between the people and the other factors, such as each person's role, for an example, an interaction between a boss and an employee.

[1989] Looking for nonverbal communication gestures and clusters prevents us from allowing a single gesture or movement to be definitive in determining a person's state of mind or emotion.

[1990] Sure, crossing your arms at your chest can be a sign of being resistant and close -minded.

[1991] However, if the person's shoulders are raised and their teeth are chattering, they might just be cold.

[1992] Oh, shivering.

[1993] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[1994] One of the other Cs.

[1995] Finally, congruents do spoken words match the tone and body language after someone falls as they verbally state they are fine.

[1996] However, their face is grimacing and their voice is shaky.

[1997] you might want to probe a little deeper.

[1998] Right.

[1999] Or ask me how I'm feeling.

[2000] How are you feeling?

[2001] Really confident.

[2002] Okay.

[2003] Are you sure?

[2004] 100%.

[2005] Oh, okay.

[2006] Do you need a tissue?

[2007] No. Okay.

[2008] I'm going to give you one anyway.

[2009] There's water on your face.

[2010] Oh, it's not tears.

[2011] Oh, that's a sad.

[2012] Yeah, that's a sad one.

[2013] And ask me how I'm doing.

[2014] How are you doing?

[2015] Oh, so sad.

[2016] Yeah, okay.

[2017] That's worse, right?

[2018] That's way worse.

[2019] Yeah, yeah.

[2020] Way, way worse.

[2021] I just had the fucking saddest day today.

[2022] Ugh.

[2023] Basket case, yes.

[2024] The origin of basket case, originally U .S. slang denoting a soldier who had just lost all four limbs, thus unable to move independently.

[2025] Yikes.

[2026] The last thing, someone who loses all four limbs needs.

[2027] to hear as a catchphrase to describe them as needing to be transported in a basket.

[2028] I mean, that's, if you think of anyone deserves some, like, some nice euphemistic language, it would be them.

[2029] Their nonverbal communication is dramatically reduced.

[2030] Yeah.

[2031] Yeah, you can't read very much based on their torso only.

[2032] It's harder.

[2033] Okay, so she talks about a horse pulling all the limbs, and you call that quartering.

[2034] Yeah, drawn in quartering.

[2035] Yeah.

[2036] quartering is cutting and hacking apart wait oh boy give us the quartering is just disememberment disemberment disememberment oh my god oh my god that's because of my seizure medication yeah I hope you stand this forever yeah me too I can blame all my stuff on my medication.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] Your mortgage provider.

[2039] Anyway, concerning quartering, to cut and hack apart his entire body into four pieces and thus be punished to death and such four parts are to be hanged on stakes publicly on four common thorough fares.

[2040] Yeah, so it's just like getting ripped apart, basically.

[2041] Right.

[2042] So it could happen by the horse.

[2043] Yeah, why not?

[2044] Grabbed him by the...

[2045] Grabbed by the pussy parts?

[2046] The pussy horse.

[2047] Oh my God, can we, can we, can, I I need to give a public shout out.

[2048] I can't imagine he listens.

[2049] Okay.

[2050] But you and I love this artist, Porris Walker.

[2051] Oh, my God.

[2052] He's basically the Mark Ribbley of art. He's such a pervert.

[2053] Yes.

[2054] In our brand of pervert.

[2055] Oh, my God.

[2056] His Instagram is so special.

[2057] It's all cartoon drawings.

[2058] Real rudimentary.

[2059] Yep.

[2060] Real pervy.

[2061] Oh, that couldn't be pervier.

[2062] We love them.

[2063] Yep.

[2064] So I reached out to Poros Walker and I got an original piece of artwork for Monica's new house.

[2065] You commissioned some art for me. Yes, and I asked him, could I suggest what you draw?

[2066] I didn't want to be disrespectful to his process.

[2067] And he said, absolutely.

[2068] And I said, well, ideally it would have to do with cheerleading and ideally being caught by the pussy.

[2069] He said, this is perfect.

[2070] And then what he sent you can only be described as a masterpiece.

[2071] Oh, my goodness.

[2072] Even it's interactive.

[2073] There's a pull down.

[2074] In the frame.

[2075] Yeah.

[2076] There's a flap in the cheerleaders in the air.

[2077] the beginning and then you pull the flap down and she starts lowering down and then she swallows the whole spotter he disappears into her he like think about how he catches her by the puss he catches her by the puss but then he disappears in such a like well thought out manner yeah oh yeah oh he took it right over the top he really did it's such a special piece of our i'll post a picture of it because i was pervy enough to ask did you ever get caught by the butthole or the of course he went a step further he's like have you ever swallowed another he's human being up with your pussy when you were landing.

[2078] Oh, my goodness.

[2079] It has to have happened in the history of cheerleading.

[2080] Well, I'm going to probably guess not.

[2081] Anyways, it's spectacular.

[2082] I'm not sure where you hang it in your home, like in a closet.

[2083] I'm going to dedicate a room to perviness.

[2084] And I'm going to hang that.

[2085] I'm going to hang my beautiful painting of the Balsack Cowboy.

[2086] Original.

[2087] Original with the depth.

[2088] God.

[2089] Yeah, that's really good.

[2090] And my white elephant, I received a painting of an octopus that is made of penises.

[2091] Uh -huh.

[2092] So all of those got to go in one space, probably in the same space where the pee baby lives.

[2093] Yeah, yeah.

[2094] And can I also recommend that that be the room you do god doses of mushrooms in?

[2095] Oh, that sounds like that might be a little much for me. I don't think I can do mushrooms now.

[2096] That's probably something off the table.

[2097] I don't think so Okay All right We'll see Well ask your Neurologist if you can do shroom That's another thing I'm not supposed to Well I'm not drinking right now And I Hate it Hate it All I want to do It's all I want to do Wow Yeah Kind of like when we were talking about When I was having pills It's always running in the back of your mind Oh yeah Yeah good I can't wait to go to meetings with you It'll be so fun Well, I'm not drinking.

[2098] Yeah.

[2099] I just want to be.

[2100] Really badly.

[2101] Well, yeah, as soon as you can't do something, I also want to be driving really badly.

[2102] Is this the longest you haven't drank since you were 21?

[2103] No. Well, that's possible.

[2104] I don't think so.

[2105] Five days, six days?

[2106] No, it hasn't.

[2107] It was Saturday morning.

[2108] Sunday, Monday.

[2109] So Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

[2110] It's been four days.

[2111] It's not great.

[2112] I'm inclined to say that is the longest you were gone.

[2113] No. I don't think so.

[2114] Because you would have wanted to this bad before and you would have no reason not to.

[2115] It's only because I can't.

[2116] Oh, okay.

[2117] I think.

[2118] I think.

[2119] If I just wasn't, I don't think I'd be thinking too hard about it.

[2120] But being told you can't do it.

[2121] Right.

[2122] And like, what if I can't ever?

[2123] Yeah.

[2124] I'm going to say you can't jog anymore.

[2125] Okay.

[2126] To trick you into jogging.

[2127] Oh, I see.

[2128] Oh, that's fine.

[2129] You can't eat broccoli anymore.

[2130] Well, I did think about that because it, Kristen went to Pilates, and I hate going to that Pilates class.

[2131] I mean, it's an amazing Pilates class, and I do always feel good after, but it's so hard.

[2132] And so I never want to go.

[2133] And she went yesterday, and I was like, ugh, I can't go.

[2134] Oh, you wanted to.

[2135] Yeah, I really wanted to go, but I couldn't go.

[2136] They tell you not to exercise?

[2137] No. But I don't think I should do that kind of intense.

[2138] Okay.

[2139] It's really intense.

[2140] I don't think I should do any of that until I get at least see the neurologist.

[2141] Yeah, yeah.

[2142] Right?

[2143] Anyway, okay, so Roseanne in the Trump call, that was the president called her to congratulate her on the success of the debut.

[2144] Yes.

[2145] And the call was confirmed by White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

[2146] Trump was thrilled with the sitcoms.

[2147] huge ratings and also wanted to thank Barr for her support.

[2148] The comedian is a vocal Trump supporter, as is her character in the Roseanne reboot.

[2149] In an interview with Good Morning America, Barr confirmed the call herself saying it was pretty exciting.

[2150] I'll tell you that much.

[2151] So that's what that was.

[2152] Great.

[2153] I wonder what they talked about.

[2154] I don't know.

[2155] What if it was like he had a food tip for her?

[2156] No, he tried.

[2157] No, I know, but he can't, he called ostensibly to say like good job on the show, but then he was just like, have you tried these?

[2158] Have you tried Emily Burger?

[2159] Speaking of your TV show, have you tried?

[2160] I want it right now.

[2161] Me too.

[2162] I want to throw it right at your face.

[2163] We told everyone about the box.

[2164] It arrived.

[2165] Yeah.

[2166] It arrived and...

[2167] It was a mess.

[2168] A massacre.

[2169] It was actually really well packaged.

[2170] Was it a hamburger or was it a steak?

[2171] It was a hamburger.

[2172] It looked like it was going to be so good.

[2173] Oh, man. I mean, the fact of it.

[2174] that I had to throw that in the garbage.

[2175] It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

[2176] I would compare it to when you drop cocaine in carpet.

[2177] You're like, oh my God, it's gone.

[2178] What am I going to do?

[2179] Fucking snort the carpet in between the hairs and get lent.

[2180] It was very sad.

[2181] But I did keep the clothes and I washed them twice and they smell fine.

[2182] Yeah, it's great.

[2183] Yeah, it's great.

[2184] Yeah, we're going to wear them.

[2185] That's great.

[2186] Anyway, did American Beauty win the Academy Award?

[2187] Yes, 2000, best picture.

[2188] Christina Hendricks' hand on the poster, yes, it's her hand, very exciting.

[2189] You said American Beauty, Thora Birch says the worst thing you can be is boring.

[2190] The quote is, I don't think that there's anything worse than being ordinary.

[2191] Oh, okay, ordinary.

[2192] And it's Mina Suvari, it's not Thora Birch.

[2193] Yeah.

[2194] That's all.

[2195] That's all.

[2196] All right, well, I love you, and I look forward to your update.

[2197] from tomorrow, as I'm sure everyone will.

[2198] I'll update everyone.

[2199] Okay, and I think everything's going to be fine.

[2200] Me too.

[2201] I love you.

[2202] Love you.

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