“Charm City,” Part 5: What’s Behind the Black Box?

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

[1] This is The Daily.

[2] Today, part five of our series on race and policing in Baltimore.

[3] We find out what happened to Nook.

[4] It's Friday, June 8th.

[5] At the corner of Warwick and Windsor, the intersection where Nook was killed, there's this stop sign.

[6] And sometimes when people drive by, they see balloons that are tied to it.

[7] It's Toby who ties them there.

[8] She puts them up for Nook.

[9] She tied up a bunch when he would have graduated from high school in 2017.

[10] She goes there a lot, not only for the balloons, she goes to reenact his death.

[11] He's facing this right here.

[12] He got out of the car, he ran like this, ran out here like this, ran out here like this.

[13] He got out here because he like this.

[14] And then he fell right there.

[15] He fell right there.

[16] They're like this.

[17] Two, three, look that right here.

[18] She's trying to retrace his very last steps.

[19] See, wait a minute, he's facing him.

[20] Okay, the car.

[21] See him like this?

[22] And I say he sits up right.

[23] And sometimes she goes there just to sleep in her car.

[24] To be close to him.

[25] People say they see her there sleeping.

[26] Grief has really changed Toby even physically.

[27] Since he died, she's lost 50 pounds.

[28] You see how she looked now.

[29] She ain't never looked like that.

[30] She was pretty, she was heavy, she had weight.

[31] Mm -hmm.

[32] Is that you?

[33] Amazing, right?

[34] Totally different person.

[35] You know, she was having problems in the house because she kept seeing him.

[36] She wasn't eating.

[37] She wasn't sleeping.

[38] She was sitting there at the front door waiting for him to come back.

[39] You know, like the person I began.

[40] Everybody say this.

[41] It's so hard to be around you.

[42] People that do not.

[43] Okay, so it's hard for you to be around me because you're messing up.

[44] How do you think, how hard you think it is for me to be around me?

[45] I am, look.

[46] I think, look, I eat, nook, I breathe, nook, I sleep, look, look, everything is nook, look, look, but it always has been.

[47] It's not because he did, it's always been.

[48] And that's something I know.

[49] And what does it mean now that he's not?

[50] These days gone, man. No more No, No, Tovey.

[51] I'm a nuisance, I know.

[52] These days, Toby wears t -shirts with Nook's name on them.

[53] They have his picture, too.

[54] His name is tattooed on the side of her face, up near her left ear.

[55] She wears bracelets and necklaces with these little charms, and the charms have Nook's picture on them.

[56] I'm looking, Lord Tony.

[57] What's inside?

[58] A picture of Knook and Lord Tony.

[59] She's gone back several times to this little shop in Mondaman Mall, to get more made.

[60] She got so many of them, we don't know.

[61] It's this one because I know.

[62] But where's the picture?

[63] It just was on there.

[64] Toby, your picture gone.

[65] Oh, my God.

[66] This is happening to all these had them pictures on there.

[67] Yeah, it's gone.

[68] Because I remember the key.

[69] That is bad.

[70] I'm too old for this.

[71] She hears it might help to join the mom's group.

[72] This group of women who've lost their children to gun violence in Baltimore.

[73] They have these monthly meetings and They also do activism.

[74] They get together and do marches, things like that.

[75] Yeah, I joined the mom's group.

[76] I joined it because they said it worked, it was good, sharpie.

[77] One time she invited them to come to her son's ceasefire, essentially a gathering of people at a place where a kid was shot.

[78] I invited them to the ceasefire in the midst of the meeting.

[79] This lady, she said, well, I had to bring my gun and all I'm left.

[80] I don't know.

[81] I don't know why people even try.

[82] So with her grief comes this really intense loneliness.

[83] She's the mom of a criminal, a drug dealer.

[84] Her son's friends won't tell her anything because telling her something would be snitching.

[85] The police won't tell her anything for reasons she can't understand.

[86] In the mom's group, it seems to just have this hierarchy of sympathy.

[87] It's like Nook's death was justifiable, so her grief isn't.

[88] So instead of going to the mom's marches, she stays at home, under a pile of laundry.

[89] Like, this is my daily thing.

[90] This was just clean yesterday.

[91] Like, I report this.

[92] That's where I find her one day.

[93] Her legs and torso were kind of buried under this pile of clothes.

[94] I'm going to put that back.

[95] That's going to be straight.

[96] And then tomorrow, you'll be like, it was so clean.

[97] I'm going to just do it again.

[98] It's not no particular reason.

[99] Like, everything is clean.

[100] And this was her daily routine.

[101] She dumps out the clothes, then folds them, puts them back, but does it all over again.

[102] I don't know.

[103] And I don't know why I do it.

[104] That's the thing.

[105] I don't, but it suits me. And when I got company, I stopped.

[106] Like, and then I want it, like, I don't want to hurry up and put it away by your hair.

[107] And I know I should be doing it to clean it up out of the floor, because it probably looked bad to y 'all.

[108] But if I clean it up, then what am I do later?

[109] So as long as it's said, I know I got something to do.

[110] But I got too much time.

[111] She has these little tiny steps of progress.

[112] She said she gained three pounds.

[113] But then she'll have this tiny setback, something that seems really small.

[114] But it'll really knock her for a loop, and she'll have a really bad day.

[115] And every time I'm putting it old, they disappear.

[116] But they're not flying away, because today I could have said the wind did it.

[117] But there's no strings left.

[118] There's no strings left.

[119] They're taking, oh, all, lonely, no trains, don't leave no strings.

[120] They're taking it.

[121] We visited her on one of these bad days.

[122] Something had set her off.

[123] We didn't know what it was at first.

[124] But then we learned she'd put up more balloons at Nook's intersection.

[125] And someone had cut them down.

[126] She thinks maybe the police.

[127] I want them to know to stop taking my son balloons down because that's not coping property.

[128] That's across the street.

[129] Y 'all have nothing on this other side of this street.

[130] And like I said, y 'all took enough from me. Leave my memories there.

[131] Don't, can you just please touch my son?

[132] shit.

[133] That balloon's not barring, y 'all.

[134] Every time.

[135] Every time.

[136] It's balloons on poles all over the city.

[137] The police don't take them down.

[138] Come on, Nan.

[139] These people...

[140] They liars.

[141] The police department is lying.

[142] Toby's mom, DeVetta, she doesn't carry her grief in the same way.

[143] But she's mad.

[144] And she's mad at the police, too.

[145] And very specifically, at the officer that they think shot him.

[146] She's mad at that officer that they think shot Nook.

[147] Yes.

[148] If I could say how I felt about him, y 'all be like, we can't put that on there.

[149] This man's a murderer.

[150] He's a punk.

[151] In another few other words.

[152] She says this man about the officer because she thinks she knows who it is.

[153] Toby does too.

[154] And that's because the streets talk.

[155] And one day, they hear a name.

[156] And that name is Michael Baysmore.

[157] I have hate for him.

[158] And I want him.

[159] To die a hard but death.

[160] Oh, you just want to know about my certified vegan tattoo?

[161] Yeah.

[162] Oh, like what made me get it?

[163] Yeah.

[164] So I found Michael Baysmore, and I sent him a message on Facebook.

[165] I didn't tell him why we wanted to talk.

[166] But he invited us anyway.

[167] That was kind of surprising to us.

[168] So we went to his apartment in the suburbs.

[169] And he opened the door, and we went inside, sat down.

[170] And then he's not at all what we had.

[171] expected.

[172] I make this one dish with some Japanese sweet potatoes, red bell peppers, maybe like some yellow and orange ones, some apples, you know, maybe like some envy apples of pinatas or something that has a nice sweetness to it.

[173] And it's this field roast apple and sage vegan sausage.

[174] Mix it up in the pan, season it with some cinnamon.

[175] It's a little bit of salt, some, some raw agave.

[176] The secret is the cayenne pepper.

[177] So it had that sweetness, but then it had some spice.

[178] So he's this kind of young, shy, soft -spoken guy.

[179] He's been a police officer at Coppin State University for several years.

[180] And he's a vegan.

[181] In fact, he was a finalist in this contest that PETA has every year for the sexiest vegan.

[182] It opened my eyes a lot more, and it helped me. me not only appreciate my life, but like all life in general.

[183] So when we first get there, we're feeling kind of nervous about telling him why we actually came.

[184] But then this weird thing happens.

[185] He brings it up himself.

[186] He says he got this Instagram message from a girl.

[187] She accused him of killing someone.

[188] This was Nook's girlfriend, Desire.

[189] You know, the girlfriend, she pretty much said, let me say I have it right here.

[190] you killed my boyfriend the very next day of the picture.

[191] How does that make you feel?

[192] And I bet you didn't tell him you killed an 18 -year -old.

[193] And she was like, yeah, I finally found you.

[194] To me, it was like, you know, if she was bold enough to, you know, find me and message me, it's like, well, it's no telling if they know where I live.

[195] You know, they already know where I work at.

[196] He was really, really scared, pretty freaked out.

[197] I mean, even to this day, it still makes me, like, uneasy.

[198] I mean, even right now, it's still a shock because I don't have any idea how my name came up, like, literally at all.

[199] They got it wrong.

[200] I told her, I was like, you know, if I do respect, you know, you had a wrong person.

[201] It wasn't me. You know, I took off that day.

[202] And not only did he not do it.

[203] He gets how Toby is feeling.

[204] Does part of you understand her?

[205] Oh, I completely understand.

[206] I mean, because, you know, I'm an only child.

[207] You know, my parents actually adopted me, so I can kind of relate to her situation, because I think that's her only son.

[208] It's her only son.

[209] So, yeah, I mean, that was her heart.

[210] So I totally understand.

[211] And then it's just no closure.

[212] It's like, damn, I can only imagine, like, how difficult it is because no matter where she turns.

[213] house, she's reminded of it.

[214] I actually saw on YouTube.

[215] I'm not sure if she made it, but somebody had made like a little celebration of life video for him.

[216] It's really good.

[217] And I saw it.

[218] Yeah.

[219] And I watch it from time to time.

[220] And it, you know, it's not a lot of things that kind of touch or bother me. But just seeing that, you know, just being so close to it, I can feel it.

[221] And I just wish that I could just, you know, just honestly just apologize not only just on behalf of, you know, our department and their ineptitude and handling the situation, but just everybody in general.

[222] Like, I don't want to say it's It seemed like, you know, like the departments or the court trying to hide something.

[223] But it'll make you question it.

[224] Even before they mentioned my name, I still was curious because it was just odd to me that they never even identified the office of Priy.

[225] Like, it's still odd to me. And, you know, it's like, are they going to do it?

[226] I think it's going to mean a lot that you've been thinking about it.

[227] I think about it every time I drive past that intersection Like You know Even if I see like some balloons there Something like that I think about it all the time That's part of the reason why When I'm patrolling I usually don't even drive Up and down that area too much Because it's just It gives me like an airy feeling It's like it literally happened right here And It's almost like like his like his ghost so it's his spirit is just still laying right there like every time i drive by it's just like damn and you know just for her not to have answers it's just it's not fair it's not fair like if somebody even just told her like look you know we'll relinquish the information you know like but it it takes some time like you know whatever the next step in the process is but like don't just leave her in the dark.

[228] Because then that just makes her feel like they forgot about it.

[229] It's just like he's just another statistic.

[230] And that's where anger in the community comes from because they start feeling like, you know, the police just out here killing people and nothing's happening.

[231] So that's where I understand, you know, I can understand that outrage when they're not getting the answers that they want.

[232] At this point, we knew we needed to talk.

[233] to the Baltimore police directly.

[234] And there was this one guy who DeVetta and Toby kept talking about, a guy they blamed.

[235] They'd been mad at him from day one.

[236] His name was T .J. Smith.

[237] He's the chief spokesman at the Baltimore Police Department.

[238] And he was the one who gave the press conference when Nook was killed.

[239] Baltimore City Police were also here investigating at the scene.

[240] Chief T .J. Smith says that quick action may have saved students' lives.

[241] The officer happened to be in the right place at the right time.

[242] This could have been a running gun battle that could have ended up with the case.

[243] We asked him what happened with the investigation.

[244] And he told us this, that they didn't actually know very much about what was really going on there that night.

[245] He said they tried to talk to people, but no one would help.

[246] I mean, the car that Nook had been riding and just drove off, left him on the pavement.

[247] And he said they never got the license plates of either of the cars.

[248] We told that to Toby and DeVetta later they didn't believe it.

[249] They said there were cameras everywhere.

[250] It was weird they wouldn't have gotten a number.

[251] But the bottom line was this, without witnesses, like, for example, the guys in the car nook was riding in, it's kind of impossible for the police to solve these crimes.

[252] We beg and plead to get the information.

[253] We don't have crystal balls, and I know that some people think that we should know all of this, but it doesn't work that way.

[254] You know, I had a cousin who was killed here in Baltimore several years back, and I remember being at his funeral and there was anger in me. You want to come and shed tears.

[255] You want to hug my aunt.

[256] You want to wear t -shirts with his name on it and all.

[257] But you know who did it, and you don't want to reveal that information.

[258] That's something that we grapple with on a regular basis.

[259] And that goes for Toby, too.

[260] She didn't really want to help them.

[261] They asked for access to Nook's phone.

[262] She wouldn't give it to them.

[263] Why should she help them?

[264] We explained that to him.

[265] How wronged Toby?

[266] by the lack of information.

[267] And we asked him to help answer some of her big questions.

[268] First, the black box.

[269] He said it was actually put up to protect the family from seeing something disturbing.

[270] That's one of the first times in my career I've ever heard of a loved one wanting the uncut version of the video.

[271] Second, the name of the officer, that was a coppin state university decision.

[272] And then Toby had been angry that they used a mugshot of him at the press conference.

[273] instead of a regular photo.

[274] He could see how that might feel offensive.

[275] It's not going to be the right image that families want to see.

[276] And I totally get that.

[277] I totally get that.

[278] And I get the frustration behind it.

[279] But the police are in a tricky spot.

[280] Nook, the victim, was also a suspect of a crime.

[281] He was firing a gun.

[282] It's always unfortunate if a family member feels that the customer service that they got was poor.

[283] and we can only learn from it and try to do better because at the end of the day, everyone we encounter are our constituents slash customers, and regardless of what end of the spectrum they're on, whether they're a victim, victim family, or a suspect, they have to be treated with dignity.

[284] And I know that we're doing better, we're getting better, and we're recognizing that we must get better.

[285] And, you know, my condolences to her because, again, regardless of the decisions that he made, it's not fair to her if she feels victimized yet again.

[286] Is there some part of the police department that deals with bereaved relative family members like this, like moms?

[287] I mean, I think part of it is just, it's just the sheer frustration.

[288] Exactly.

[289] It's a lot.

[290] You know, last year, my brother was killed here in Baltimore.

[291] You know, I saw it come up on my cell phone like I see every other murder victim and every other shooting victim in Baltimore popped up on my cell phone and I saw his name and just like anyone else, denial, immediate denial, didn't believe it.

[292] Even with every indication, birth date, name, address, still denial.

[293] Even when I got the picture, it was still in denial.

[294] It was tough.

[295] It still is tough.

[296] The day of my brother's burial, we're at the burial gardens and the person from the burial grounds comes over to me and says, you need to sign this paper right here.

[297] And I'm just like, I mean, I really wanted to push him right in the hole.

[298] I mean, we haven't even lowered the casket.

[299] The flowers are still fresh.

[300] We're waiting for the doves to come back home, and you're asking me to sign something.

[301] As he's talking, he's sounding a lot like Toby.

[302] Like when the detective came to her house, the next morning, started asking her all these questions, kind of cold, filling up paperwork, never saying he was sorry, even though the police had killed her son.

[303] I don't really care what the answer to the why is, because the why doesn't bring him back.

[304] It's just some stupid reason why.

[305] But knowing who did it does provide a little bit of solace.

[306] But, you know, in Toby's case, that's also her situation, you know.

[307] I get it.

[308] And I think, you know, with so much trauma, it's tough.

[309] All of that combined certainly can allow your mind to race.

[310] Because, you know, a mom's mind can go different places.

[311] How many times with LeVar shot?

[312] How many bullets were removed?

[313] Did he get a look at the year -make model of the car.

[314] LaValle was shooting at or got out of?

[315] What was the first witness on the same?

[316] What kind of guy?

[317] Was it one shooting?

[318] Was it one guy?

[319] Was it his officer?

[320] weapon or wasn't his personal weapon?

[321] Who was he shooting that?

[322] That's the question.

[323] Did y 'all ask Mordaum for their cameras?

[324] Because did they really come from Mondeau?

[325] Because Will was tied around his wrist?

[326] Did they even think about that?

[327] Like, will be protecting his hands from gunpowder?

[328] So, okay, so that's another question.

[329] Was he alone in the car?

[330] Who was the first witness on the same?

[331] Because it should have been that person in that act because they never went nowhere.

[332] Oh, what's he tied up?

[333] Okay, so what's tied around his wrist?

[334] That's another question.

[335] The hair slay and shoe cup is that's what the autopsy say.

[336] You can highlight it.

[337] It's in the first paragraph.

[338] Hi.

[339] Holy crap.

[340] I know.

[341] You know, I had a fear that this was going to happen.

[342] They were going to say come in 20 minutes.

[343] A few weeks after our meeting with T .J., Toby gets a phone call.

[344] It's from the police.

[345] And they ask her to come in.

[346] They say they're going to show her the video without the black box and answer her questions.

[347] And he said you can't come into the meeting.

[348] You know what?

[349] Let me call you back in like three minutes.

[350] I just have to put the GPS on so I can start moving.

[351] Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[352] So I jump in the car, try to get there in time.

[353] Are you scared of what you might see behind the black box, Toby?

[354] I don't know.

[355] No, see, I'm treating me. I don't know.

[356] I don't know what I'm expecting, but I'm ready for whatever.

[357] I'm ready for whatever.

[358] The worst part has been done.

[359] I think of my baby.

[360] The worst part.

[361] No way's part.

[362] It's overwhelming, but I'm ready.

[363] I'm ready.

[364] I've been ready.

[365] Sabrina's racing down to meet you.

[366] Thank you.

[367] You'll call her?

[368] I'm a caller.

[369] I'll call her when I get to you.

[370] Okay.

[371] All right.

[372] Are you going to head out now?

[373] Yeah.

[374] Okay.

[375] Good luck, Toby.

[376] All right.

[377] Thank you.

[378] In half a mile, use the right two lanes to take exit 27 for I -95 north toward Baltimore.

[379] So I raced to Baltimore as fast as I could.

[380] I got to the police station.

[381] and I saw her just before she went up.

[382] Toby.

[383] I ran up to them.

[384] She's standing with a guy from the police department.

[385] They won't let me go up with her.

[386] So I sit in this blue chair in the lobby, and I wait.

[387] It's 11 .55, still waiting.

[388] People are walking in and out.

[389] So would you be able to put a small segment into your paper regarding this poor lady?

[390] Yes.

[391] Well, this is the place.

[392] I'll tell you, this place has got so much going on.

[393] It's unbelievable.

[394] I go to see what you.

[395] Cops in uniform, some women trainees waiting for a test.

[396] Hey, New York.

[397] Even the commissioner walks by at some point.

[398] Oh, I remember that.

[399] Was it on Gwynsville Parkway?

[400] Right next, right across from...

[401] My timing?

[402] Yeah.

[403] Yeah.

[404] I remember it specific.

[405] I just remember the incident itself.

[406] It was close to Christmas time.

[407] I think it was.

[408] So I'm sitting in this lobby thinking, what's going to happen?

[409] Where did the police go from here?

[410] It's been three years since Freddie Gray.

[411] But for people living here in Baltimore, the murder rate has only gotten higher, and the faith in the police has only gotten worse.

[412] I mean, think about that trial, the Gun Trace Task Force trial, and how ugly it all was.

[413] On the other hand, now might be the best chance Baltimore has ever had for change.

[414] The trial was a kind of catharsis, a confirmation of people's feelings.

[415] And the federal government is still here watching.

[416] There's a monitor reporting on the department's every move.

[417] If it fails, the city will be sued.

[418] And that's a pretty strong incentive.

[419] It's 245 and I'm still sitting in the lobby waiting for Toby.

[420] She's been there for about an hour and 20 minutes.

[421] So it's 106 and still waiting for Toby.

[422] All of a sudden she's out and I'm just fumbling with my recorder kind of running after her.

[423] She's already halfway out the door before I realize it.

[424] I catch up with her, and we're standing in this kind of little corner outside the police department, and she's trying to light the cigarette, and it won't light because the wind keeps going, and I put my hand over it.

[425] I guess it's done.

[426] There's nothing else.

[427] They said it's over in the beginning, until they soon and just could not tell me anything.

[428] Like, it's nothing.

[429] And let's your answer this question.

[430] They call about four different people in there that work on bullets and all that stuff.

[431] And They keep on trying to say no. Everybody keeps saying, no, they didn't say.

[432] They said three bullets.

[433] Oh, no, then I'm going to correct them on that.

[434] Oh, okay, we're three, two, and that's all mistake.

[435] No, it was full.

[436] No, it was not filed.

[437] But they said they put a six bullet in an envelope.

[438] Where is the other bullets that they collected, that the autopsy collected?

[439] It don't say, it doesn't say.

[440] It's inconclusive.

[441] Everything ain't conclusive.

[442] LaVar's case is justifiably inconclusive.

[443] I cannot believe this city.

[444] The whole city.

[445] I just thought she's.

[446] been sitting with those people for an hour and a half.

[447] The police, she was finally having this meeting.

[448] The police finally agreed to sit down, but it wasn't satisfying for her.

[449] That's it.

[450] Well, that's all we can help you with it.

[451] You know, I hope you appreciate us, even taking this time out, but the decisions are made.

[452] Did they say, I'm sorry for your loss?

[453] I'm sorry, you know, but, you know, anger is the first phase to grief.

[454] I'm angry at the city now.

[455] Like, I'm angry.

[456] I'm angry at the city.

[457] I've never liked them, but it just made me feel even proven now that, I don't know.

[458] They don't care about that's for our family.

[459] I don't care about them of their families.

[460] And that's any police at this point.

[461] I don't have enough to say Sabrina.

[462] Shame on this city.

[463] Like, the end.

[464] It's really the end.

[465] She just looked at me, and her face just, like, just started crying so hard.

[466] I mean, there were tears coming down her face like it was just rain.

[467] I need to lay down.

[468] T .J, if you lived in West Baltimore, would you trust the police?

[469] So that's a bit of a loaded question because it's only a hypothesis of what if.

[470] I don't know.

[471] I'd never lived there.

[472] And I don't know what those interactions are.

[473] But I know that if a certain group of police worked in that area and then my suspicions are, via GTTF.

[474] It's an I told you so moment.

[475] And if these are things that have been, I told you so, yeah, I can understand that.

[476] But I've worked in some communities that have had challenges with law enforcement.

[477] But what I've noticed through those challenges is they're always going to people don't like you.

[478] I mean, it's like you can get, you know, a cat and a dog to work together and live together, but by nature, they just don't like each other, right?

[479] So they're always going to be people.

[480] You know, if you're interfering with a profit from a drug organization, they might not like you too much.

[481] But then it's really not always about like.

[482] It's about respect.

[483] And it should be a mutual respect.

[484] We don't know exactly what happened in that meeting between Toby and the Baltimore police.

[485] We only have Toby's version.

[486] We do know that she saw the video without the black box for the first time.

[487] But she said the picture was still fuzzy.

[488] And eventually, we see the video, too.

[489] There was no person getting out of the passenger side of the police car, as Toby had seen, and as we had started to see.

[490] But it was fuzzy, and just hard to figure out.

[491] So we took it to somebody whose job involves watching these things.

[492] Hi, Mr. Pettit.

[493] This is Sabrina calling.

[494] Right.

[495] A lawyer named Dwight Pettit.

[496] In fact, Toby had asked him to take Nook's case.

[497] Yes, I talked to the mom.

[498] And I think she talked to one of the other lawyers in our office.

[499] I remember we declined the case after we looked at the video.

[500] I was advised by lawyers of my staff in my office that I remember they said they saw him firing.

[501] They didn't say whether he was firing at the officer, but that he was still discharging the gun when the officer opened fire.

[502] But I can't recall from my recollection what I'm saying.

[503] It's been several months ago.

[504] We've gone through several videos since then on other cases.

[505] Would you mind asking the person in your office who did see it if they would be willing to talk to us?

[506] It would be very brief, and I'm just trying to figure out what happened, you know, behind the box, basically.

[507] Right, hold on a second.

[508] Oh, thanks.

[509] We saw the video, right?

[510] Sabrina?

[511] Yes, sir.

[512] She's in my office.

[513] We're on both on the box.

[514] Oh, fantastic.

[515] What happens behind the box?

[516] I mean, the kid basically runs out, right?

[517] Shoots at the passing car.

[518] And then it really just looks like he runs back to the car, but then you can't tell what happens.

[519] Right.

[520] So with the box in the way, what you can't see is that as he's running, he's still shooting.

[521] What happens is that the undercover officer gets out of his car and takes like a, I guess, what they would call, like a safe position somewhere.

[522] Mm -hmm.

[523] And he fires a shot and he hits him.

[524] But the young man, Mr. Douglas, yeah.

[525] It's still shooting.

[526] You know how you run and you use your arms to propel yourself, or they just kind of swing?

[527] Yep.

[528] You can tell from the sparks on the ground and seeing sparks in different places that he's just still shooting as he's running.

[529] So it's kind of like he's not aiming, but it's just kind of wild.

[530] But it's like he's shooting behind him?

[531] Yeah.

[532] It actually goes that way sometimes, too.

[533] It almost looks like you wouldn't be able to predict when he would stop shooting.

[534] It just kind of was going with his arm's stride.

[535] Got it.

[536] Our gut was that we weren't going to be able to show excessive force or liability on the part of an officer because the standard of proof here is being reasonable.

[537] Is the officer's action reasonable?

[538] And the standard in court is even higher than that.

[539] reasonably reasonable.

[540] And so if you got a person who's firing a gun, even if somebody else, is it reasonable for the officer to, in fact, protect himself and or the public by returning fire.

[541] And under that standard and the court standards, I believe that would be deemed to be reasonable.

[542] And then we concluded that it was too fuzzy in light of our caseload to, in fact, be able to take it.

[543] You can remember jurors are very, very, very pro -police.

[544] it's very difficult to win in federal court and state court.

[545] I've lost murder case, I mean, shooting cases against the police where the people didn't have a weapon at all, and they were shot in the back, and jurors still came back in favor of the police under the standard that they were in fear for their life or fear for injury of themselves and others.

[546] That's the first defense that the police put out there.

[547] And so when you have somebody that has a gun, in many cases when they don't have a gun, and the police there, I thought he was reaching for a gun.

[548] That's enough for jurors to find probable cause and rule in the benefit in favor of the police.

[549] So where you have a gun, then somebody's firing a gun, then liability is a big reach.

[550] So having a gun is basically just a case killer, in other words?

[551] We've had cases where people have had plastic gun, toy guns, no guns, and those that are still extremely difficult.

[552] if the police in any way indicate that they believe that their life was in jeopardy.

[553] Those cases are just about always in favor of the police.

[554] So where a person does have a live gun, and he or she is firing that gun, you just about got a zero shot in terms of establishing liability.

[555] And that was the case in this case?

[556] That was our objective conclusion.

[557] Not that there was no liability, but we just felt that we would have difficulty established that in light of the fact that we have a limited staff and we have about 35 open cases.

[558] And we probably have the heaviest case load in the city.

[559] Not probably we do, in terms of police brutality, police liability.

[560] They're the most difficult cases in the world to win.

[561] And what was your reaction on watching it?

[562] The scene was a little wild.

[563] That was my reaction.

[564] it looked as if the officer kind of took things into his hands.

[565] And it appeared to me that the officer was making the situation safe for whomever was outside.

[566] Once he fell to the ground, the officer went over into his direction, and then it became unclear what he was doing.

[567] If I had to guess, I would say he was speaking with him.

[568] So it seems like maybe he was even still alive.

[569] I know that maybe he was, or maybe the officer was trying to ascertain whether he was alive.

[570] You can't tell for sure because there is no audio and that portion of the video was a little indeterminable.

[571] Have you ever talked to him about this?

[572] Yeah.

[573] It bothered him a lot.

[574] After it happened, he didn't really open up about it too much.

[575] You know, because his big thing from the way that he acted, his main concern was the students, of course.

[576] The day we went to his apartment, Michael Baysmore told us he knew who had shot Nook.

[577] He'd actually talked to him about it.

[578] But after he had time to kind of like process things, that's when he really like he just felt bad because he, you know, like he didn't tell me this.

[579] Like it was another officer that he was working with that he told.

[580] But he kind of just like broke down to him.

[581] him and he just told him, like, yo, I can't believe that, you know, I shot and killed somebody's son.

[582] He was like, I just can't believe him because he didn't want to kill him.

[583] He didn't want him to die because I think he even said that, like, after he shot, nook, he was going over to him to render A, and he said, I think he said, nook was saying, like, oh, you know, help me, help me, I don't want to die or something like that.

[584] And he was trying to help him.

[585] Because I think when the paramedics got there, he was still alive, I believe.

[586] But, you know, it wasn't too much that he could do.

[587] And he told me one time, he always said, like, man, why did I have to drive up that street?

[588] Why did I have to drive up that street?

[589] You know, I was like, damn.

[590] Like, I just feel, I feel bad for all parties involved.

[591] because he has to live with that, too, you know.

[592] Hey, daily listeners, if you need a side of culture to balance out your news diet, check out Still Processing, another podcast from the New York Times audio team.

[593] Each week, New York Times culture writers Jenna Wortham and Wesley Morris, draw connections between what's going on in culture and what it says about us.

[594] In a recent episode, Jenna invited us, us to unpack Beyonce's recent performance at Coachella.

[595] How do we deal with black death and black trauma and just trauma in general?

[596] And how do we remind ourselves that we are living in a time that is also incredibly, creatively prolific and, like, worth celebrating?

[597] And it feels extraordinarily significant to me that Beyonce is essentially saying, this is her version of, say it loud, we're black and we're proud, and also black is beautiful.

[598] Subscribe to Still Processing, wherever you get your podcasts.

[599] Devada had been carrying so much anger toward Michael Baysmore.

[600] We wanted to give her the news.

[601] Okay, so we found out some things.

[602] The first thing we found out is that Michael Baysmore wasn't him.

[603] And we had a long conversation with him.

[604] And so we want to play you a little bit of it.

[605] Um, okay.

[606] I'm ready.

[607] Does part of you understand her?

[608] Oh, I completely understand.

[609] I mean, I think that's her only son.

[610] It's her only son.

[611] So, yeah, I mean, that was her heart.

[612] And I'm not sure if that's just how it goes, you know, with these kind of cases and stuff.

[613] But if it is, it just still doesn't seem right.

[614] Like, I don't want to say it seemed like the departments or the.

[615] or the court trying to hide something, but it didn't make you question it.

[616] I almost really don't know what to say.

[617] You don't have to.

[618] You said it all right there.

[619] You just said it all right there.

[620] I've been said it.

[621] He didn't know Nook, but he's still looking at Nook's videos.

[622] You know, he has attached to Nook's videos, and it's like, He's got a spiritual being biffing up.

[623] Devada, what would you want to say to Michael Baysmore?

[624] First off, I need to apologize because I have been inflicting death on him and his family for what he did to my grand.

[625] I need to apologize.

[626] He don't know that, but I'm from the country, so we do a little rude or, you know, I want to apologize for that.

[627] I feel like he was sincere and I owe him apology.

[628] I mean, I would be very nice to him and talk nice to him and y 'all are going to see him again?

[629] Are y 'all going to talk to him again?

[630] You don't know.

[631] Well, if you happen to do you talk, tell him his grandmother when to meet her.

[632] I'm going to be very nice.

[633] Y 'all can check me. No knives, no guns.

[634] I'm not even going to cross.

[635] I want to hear some more.

[636] Is he finished?

[637] Is he finished?

[638] It's not finished.

[639] Okay, let's finish talking.

[640] Let's listen to you.

[641] Because I'm surprised.

[642] I was expecting here where he was in the streets and he didn't, and you know, stuff like that.

[643] But I feel kind of, kind of like I can feel his pain.

[644] And I don't know.

[645] You can hear some more.

[646] Let's see what he's say.

[647] I'm going to drop that in or something.

[648] Like, you know, if you know, Even if I see, like, some balloons there and something like that, I think about it all the time.

[649] That's part of the reason why when I'm patrolling, I usually don't even drive up and down in various sports.

[650] Wow.

[651] Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.

[652] I wasn't expecting that at all.

[653] Yeah, I mean, you know, that actually kind of gives me some kind of, you know, closure to a little bit, you know, because it's, you know, I feel like I don't have to worry about.

[654] watching my back all the time.

[655] I think.

[656] Because, you know, I was going to ask you, too, like, because I know, I know I usually put, like, balloons and stuff up, like, you know, right in the area way to, uh, the shooting happen.

[657] Yeah.

[658] But I, but for some of the current reason, like, you know, I, supervise, you know, that I was dependent or whatever always has us go cut the balloons down.

[659] Like, and I, I don't think that's right.

[660] But, you know, I wasn't sure if, you know, Nook's mother, you know, anybody in the family ever noticed, you know, like they might put the balloons up on, like, let's say, a Tuesday, and maybe by, like, a Saturday, sometimes they'd be gone.

[661] I was wondering if they ever noticed that.

[662] Toby mentioned that several times as something that made her feel so sad.

[663] They definitely notice.

[664] So the police officer who shot Nook, in the eyes of the law, he was probably within his rights.

[665] He could reasonably argue that he was protecting the public, but he's protecting himself.

[666] And from how Michael Baysmore talked about it, he was trying to do the right thing, and he's burdened by what happened.

[667] I tracked him down and got him on the phone.

[668] He hung up.

[669] But for Toby, it wasn't really about him.

[670] She told us once, way back in the beginning, back when we first met her in the library, that she didn't blame the cop.

[671] She blamed the police department in the city.

[672] because yes, her son was doing something wrong, but she still had the right to an opinion, the right to get answers, and the right to ask the questions in the first place.

[673] Thanksgiving, actually, the latest picture we took.

[674] Thanksgiving, that was the latest picture we took.

[675] Let me sign our Thanksgiving present.

[676] We still don't really know what happened out there that night.

[677] The night Nook got killed.

[678] Do you look happy to you?

[679] What does he look like to you?

[680] This might be my husband.

[681] He slept the whole time.

[682] I've never really looked in his face on this picture.

[683] So Thanksgiving was November the 23rd.

[684] How many days is there before you died?

[685] Seven, 20 days.

[686] Because seven days till the first and then, the days, 20 days before he died.

[687] You don't look at me. We know that earlier that day, he went to Marshalls to buy a coat for his mom.

[688] He'd lost hers and it was cold outside.

[689] It was December.

[690] We also know that he seemed really distant and kind of preoccupied, worried in the weeks leading up to the shooting.

[691] And Toby said the night before he got killed, he stayed up, crying.

[692] She didn't know exactly why, but she thought it was some misunderstanding about some money that had gone missing.

[693] What does he look like?

[694] He's trying to smell.

[695] I wonder what was going on in a little man. He don't look at me. I never look at him.

[696] He looks...

[697] He don't look happy at all.

[698] He looks like he's thinking about something.

[699] Exactly.

[700] It looks like his mind is full or something.

[701] How does he have to?

[702] He gave out food.

[703] He went and bought hot food a day down and gave it out.

[704] Now, Mom, they came full about it.

[705] How was he giving the food too?

[706] Don't miss me. Did you guys do that together?

[707] He called me and said he was at Food Depot.

[708] He was asking me, um, what?

[709] What was the name of the chickens, you know, the whole chicken cornishands?

[710] And he said he's bound him, some sides.

[711] That's how me it was by, like, three, four.

[712] It's a really nice thing to do.

[713] It was, it was, it really was.

[714] They made him look so bad, but made it look bad.

[715] I'm sure they investigated me, you know, looking into my life and stuff.

[716] And, you know, I'm a poor person, you know, on Section 8.

[717] And I think they knew if I didn't.

[718] And after many people had my back, they get this pushed me away.

[719] And they did.

[720] They stuck together enough to push me away.

[721] Nobody would listen to me. I mean, I don't really care now if nothing come out of it.

[722] You all listen to me, and that's all I was asking.

[723] That's not about everybody.

[724] It's, like, unbelievable that he's really gone.

[725] Like, I have to time of my stuff every day.

[726] He's going at the hospital.

[727] Toby's grief and anger.

[728] She's channeled it for all these months at the ball.

[729] Baltimore police.

[730] But just a couple of weeks ago, DeVetta said something to me. And in my mind, something clicked into place.

[731] If somebody is being held responsible, I think she could get her life back.

[732] But right now, I don't think she's going to get that back because she's angry.

[733] She blames everybody, even herself.

[734] And it's like, what could she have did different?

[735] But she's not saying that because.

[736] She feels as though she said that, then people say that they blame her for his death.

[737] And it's been said, it's been told to me, and I'm like, you know...

[738] What's been told to you?

[739] That they blame her for his death.

[740] Because she introduced him to the street life, you know, and the people she was hanging around with that he knew all was in the street.

[741] So that has an effect on her, too.

[742] And that sort of feels like the whole thing.

[743] Who's to blame?

[744] The police or the streets.

[745] Nook or Toby.

[746] You'd have to start back decades.

[747] But somewhere along the way, crime in Baltimore and the Baltimore police, they became inextricably linked.

[748] So when you start to really look at it, it can feel like everyone and no one is to blame.

[749] What do you think is worse?

[750] The streets taking you on?

[751] people's lives like that or the police both both both i just think both is dangerous the police are worse than the streets and the streets are worse than the police so you're not safe from neither one out so i think both of them is dangerous and they both on the same level but number 10 yeah I mean, number 10 is, you know how you go from one is a low school, two, three.

[752] Number 10 is a high level where it's dangerous.

[753] Number 10 is a dangerous level.

[754] I blame the city, the city, and killed these kids in the city and then covered up some killings.

[755] I blame the city for all of it.

[756] I don't blame the streets.

[757] This city is the streets.

[758] Because guess what?

[759] The streets can't get right into the officers get right, the officials get right.

[760] The city going to stay fucked up.

[761] If our head ain't right, how to fuck you all, expect our shoulders to get right?

[762] right.

[763] The head got to get right, but the head never going to get right because they should come up.

[764] Our kids, we're never going to be right.

[765] And this is how it goes on.

[766] This is a fucking ongoing cycle.

[767] And if anything seems pretty clear, it's that you can't solve one part of it without also solving the other.

[768] Some people in Baltimore said the only way to solve this to win back the trust of people like Toby and DeVetta is to rip up the department and start fresh, to disband it.

[769] But Tyrone Powers doesn't think that's necessary.

[770] As I indicated to you one time before, we've got to constantly understand that despite the fact you can become a police officer at 21, there's no other position in the United States of America where you are allowed to legally remove another human being from existence based solely on your discretion and training.

[771] The military can't even do that.

[772] So we've got to understand the important role of policing.

[773] So we've got to make them do it right.

[774] because it's such an enormous power to have that much discretion.

[775] So we have to get it right.

[776] The leadership has to get it right.

[777] So the example is set so you don't have another Baltimore.

[778] Because if we don't, I can promise you this, that we're going to have another situation like the Freddie Gray situation.

[779] We're going to have another uprising.

[780] We're going to have more people hurt unless we get this right.

[781] So, you know, it's not a choice.

[782] It's not something that we say we should get better.

[783] If we absolutely have to get a battle, Baltimore's going to burn and so is other cities.

[784] Either we're heading for a new day and time, or we're heading for something more destructive than what we saw with Freddie Gray.

[785] Oh, right, where are you in?

[786] I'm going to bring something down there with you because there's so many balloons out here.

[787] There was a murder a day in Baltimore last year.

[788] You can see it in the balloons.

[789] They're tied all over the city on stop signs in the street lights.

[790] That's why they're taking a cap.

[791] the walls, you know we had a whole car.

[792] She said they keep taking them down for me. They just put all this stuff up here for streets since they took him down.

[793] So put them down there, but they can see him at.

[794] And that means the police have a lot of chances to get this right.

[795] That's why I'm putting him off copping because they keep taking his stuff.

[796] You mean take this?

[797] Nook would have turned 20 last month.

[798] I went with Toby to tie balloons on his birthday.

[799] It was a really warm day.

[800] It was bright and sunny.

[801] And she'd gotten her hair done for the occasion.

[802] She had this blue nail polish on.

[803] All right, what, oh, give me some take, get the tape, my man. Let me try that bag, nah.

[804] Okay.

[805] Bring that kale a little bit, yeah, give me the sticks.

[806] After we tied the balloons and remembered Nook, everybody was talking and kind of laughing, remembering him.

[807] I got in my car and drove away.

[808] I ended up having to stop at this one intersection where there was a train going by.

[809] It took forever, so it took a. my phone and i texted michael basmore hi michael just letting you know that toby and her friends put up balloons at coppin tonight just wondering if they'll ask you to cut them down balloons for his birthday Sabrina A few days later Michael texted me back he said the police had popped them all Now after doing this this paper and everything What kind of closing do you think it should be What do you think as a closing You have no idea?

[810] God DeVetta I was thinking about it so much To be honest with you I was thinking What is the end to our story with Toby and DeVetta What is the end?

[811] How can we put it into this?

[812] I so wanted the end to be refreshing.

[813] Toby could get closure and try to move on.

[814] Right.

[815] But that's not going to happen.

[816] It's not going to happen really because she's just too far gone right now.

[817] So, but far as our closure, we probably won't get it no time soon.

[818] Mm -hmm.

[819] Not this year anyway, I don't think.

[820] But we're going to get it just don't know when.

[821] But we definitely want to get closer to the situation.

[822] Every night and I can we talk about something.

[823] And for a brief second, I get a relief.

[824] I don't know what it's about, but I'm going to be speaking on it.

[825] Because I feel bad to tell them about, but I do sometimes get up like a relief feeling.

[826] And it just started So I don't know If I understand my let go, it's okay You're trying, but you're not Because I get it, it's okay And don't feel bad about it I'm not trying to find an excuse to Let's go But then sometimes I know I'll be telling myself Like, if I could just Lose my mind You know how people have an accident And don't remember nothing How could you be sad about something you ain't never know about.

[827] But you know what I thought about?

[828] I think that'll be real.

[829] Because I know it's something missing because that pain going to be there.

[830] I know it's going to be there.

[831] Even if I don't even remember when I had a chair, I'm going to remember I had something that was out there and it's like an arm or something.

[832] It's going.

[833] It got to you because even when I wake up on my sleep and my day haven't started yet to even remember that and it's gone.

[834] One little piece of air come behind me and a tear dropped and then my day for like the next air one.

[835] done.

[836] One little tinkly thing.

[837] I'm freezing.

[838] Are you?

[839] I'm going to say.

[840] Should we go upstairs?

[841] Woo, yes.

[842] I'm just like, what did?

[843] No, did you come in here?

[844] Like, I'm just in my bones.

[845] It's cold.

[846] It's cold.

[847] It's cold.

[848] It's cold.

[849] All is done.

[850] All is done.

[851] So I'm, like, excited because I really want to write this book.

[852] I think it'd be a good book.

[853] And I think it'd be interesting to people.

[854] At first I was going to do it as a fiction book, but I changed.

[855] I think we'll make it a nonfiction book because it's a true story and true stories are nonfiction.

[856] Fictions is not a true story.

[857] What does it begin with?

[858] Does it begin with Ida?

[859] Oh no, it don't begin.

[860] My mother is in it, but it begins like me first starting to work with first starting to have my kids.

[861] And when I first started working at the library, it tells about me working at the library, catching the bus, struggling for some years, and getting back on my feet.

[862] It has a lot, it has everything in there.

[863] Yeah.

[864] And then, you know, I'm going to have nook in there, and they're going to be reading about him.

[865] They'd be like, oh, wow, you know, he died at such a young age, and they didn't take responsibility for, nobody took responsibility for his murder.

[866] but yet they can find other people, you know, in the police.

[867] We'll be right back.

[868] This series was produced and reported by Sabrina Tavernisi and Lindsay Garrison, with help from Rachel Quester and editing by Lisa Tobin.

[869] The Daily is produced by Theo Belcom, Lindsay Garrison, Rachel Quester, Annie Brown, Andy Mills, Ike's Rees Comeraja, Claire Tennisgetter, Paige Cowittor, Michael Simon, Johnson and Jessica Chung, with editing help from Larissa Anderson.

[870] Lisa Tobin is our executive producer.

[871] Samantha Henig is our editorial director.

[872] Our technical manager is Brad Fisher.

[873] Our engineer is Chris Wood.

[874] And our theme music is by Jim Runberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

[875] Special thanks to Sam Dolnik, Michaela Bouchard, Stella Tan, Gia Ling Yang, Morgan McCarthy, and Miranda Barnes.

[876] photographed Toby and DeVetta.

[877] And welcome to the world, Theodore Stephen Fisher.

[878] That's it for the Daily.

[879] I'm Michael Barbaro.

[880] See you Monday.