JRE MMA Show #73 with Jean Jacques Machado

[0] Boom.

[1] And we're live.

[2] Jean -Jacques.

[3] Joe Hogan.

[4] Pull this up.

[5] It's been quite some time, but we made it.

[6] Yeah, we made it.

[7] We made it happen.

[8] People still, to this day, all my friends call me Joe Hogan because of you.

[9] I don't know, man. Joe Hogan.

[10] That's a funny Brazilian thing, you know, the Portuguese translation of R's to H's.

[11] I think when we speak English, you have to use your tongue in a way that in Portuguese we are just flat out.

[12] But you use Rio.

[13] You don't say Hio, right?

[14] Do you say Hio?

[15] No, Rio.

[16] How does that work?

[17] Somehow, it's in Portuguese, the first two letters are the strongest one in the word.

[18] But Hickson and Hoyce and...

[19] Say Hickson.

[20] Right.

[21] But it's not Rixon, but it's Rio.

[22] Yes.

[23] How's that work?

[24] I don't know.

[25] When it comes to a name, it's different than when you say a city name.

[26] Oh, really?

[27] Yes.

[28] Oh.

[29] It's funny.

[30] Rio, it's more something for...

[31] And when you say personal, it becomes a little, I don't know, hexon.

[32] So with people, it's an H. But it can be an R, like an R sound, with objects and things.

[33] Yes.

[34] Or just places.

[35] I think more places.

[36] And it's funny because in each region in Brazil is a different accent.

[37] Really?

[38] Oh, that makes sense.

[39] Kind of like America.

[40] Yes.

[41] Each place, like, what country is that?

[42] Because it sounds very different.

[43] Ah.

[44] But it's a beautiful language.

[45] Portuguese has like, especially Brazilian Portuguese, has like a sing -songy, like a flow to it.

[46] It's the Bossa Nova, a carnival, the man. But it's that the way you guys talk.

[47] It's cool.

[48] It sounds good, you know?

[49] It's more almost like singing.

[50] Yeah.

[51] How many Americans have, like, put on a fake Brazilian accent once they started really getting into Jiu -Zitsu?

[52] Must be.

[53] Man, I think in a way when Jiu -Zitsu established their flag outside.

[54] Brazil, it makes funny, it's funny in a way that people, our goal is to make that area become more Brazilian than any other place.

[55] It's not that we're trying to speak more English, but we'll make the English become more Portuguese.

[56] And almost every student that I have, maybe probably because my accent, they start listening and speaking very similar the way we do in every Jujitsu school.

[57] Yeah, well, that's, we used to see that in Taekwondo, too.

[58] Guys would have like fake Korean accents.

[59] And in each school, the instructor has a different accent and different vocabulary, which even extended more.

[60] It becomes like another language in the Jiu -Jitsu community.

[61] So Jiu -Jitsu is huge in Rio, but what other parts of Brazil that it is?

[62] It's very strange.

[63] If you stop and think about the history of martial arts, which is something that's always been very fascinating to me, Jiu -Jitsu is the most fascinating because until 1993, it was very few people understood how potent Brazilian jiu -jitsu was.

[64] When I started understanding Jiu -Jitsu and became on the teenager time, Jiu -Jitsu was basically in Brazil, has that amazing era of my uncle, Hilo, and Carson, the whole first generation of the family, which Brazil was all over, Jiu -Zitsu is all over Brazil.

[65] As a teenager, I remember the Jiu -Zitsu was basically established in a very, wealth area in Rio de Janeiro only.

[66] Real?

[67] That's basically, you have all these schools is to call Gracie Schools by the neighborhood.

[68] You have a Gracie Umayatah.

[69] You have a Gracie Copacabana.

[70] You have a then future Gracie Barra.

[71] But everything was almost Gracie school everywhere.

[72] And it was wealthy people?

[73] Only in the wealthy era of Rio.

[74] Wow.

[75] Then slowly because, keep in mind, we used to have one, maybe two tournaments, sport of Jiu -Zitsu a year.

[76] That's it.

[77] We always practice Jiu -Zitsu, mainly at that time, for self -defense.

[78] We want to get ready for protect ourselves.

[79] We never had much chances to try in a tournament because there's no tournament.

[80] Every train we do was based in defend yourself.

[81] What year did tournament start coming about?

[82] By the beginning of the 90s, I think the Jiu -Zitsu tournament started catching up more.

[83] Because it was a crazy video of your birthday.

[84] brother, Higgen and Hickson, competing at a tournament once.

[85] It was the biggest tournament of the year.

[86] 300 competitors.

[87] Oh, that's crazy.

[88] That was the biggest one.

[89] That's the biggest one.

[90] That's the biggest one.

[91] That's the biggest one.

[92] That's the biggest one, 300 people.

[93] Now the thousands and thousands.

[94] Now, the big ones is like 5 ,000 people.

[95] Yeah.

[96] Now, when this happened, what year was this with your brother?

[97] I think it was in the 80s, not sure which year.

[98] Wow.

[99] With something, I don't think today looking back is something that I didn't like personally, because there was no need for that.

[100] We everybody's to train together.

[101] And later on, I find out there was behind the scenes, people involved with the organization, they want something more of the tournament, and they end up making something like that happened.

[102] Oh, so you mean because Higgen and Hickson had trained together, having them compete against each other was not a good idea?

[103] Oh, no, Hickson was teaching us.

[104] Right.

[105] He's our instructor.

[106] Why do you think they wanted to have him compete against Higin?

[107] It wasn't.

[108] Even these happened on the day at the event.

[109] There was no planning of having that fight or anything.

[110] They just made that happen there.

[111] And today realized that the promoter of the tournament, the sponsor, was talking to someone involved in the promotion, hey, man, I'll give you more money if you make something like that happen.

[112] In our time, if my instructor tells me, I wanted to go and do that.

[113] I don't even question.

[114] I just go and do it.

[115] That's the way we were in the whole family.

[116] And our instructor said, I've got to go and do this.

[117] Even though I don't like it, it's wrong.

[118] I should not do it.

[119] We do it.

[120] So what would be wrong about it would be that you were all training partners.

[121] And in fact, Hickson was your instructor.

[122] So for one of you to go against Hickson, it's just...

[123] I will give you, in the 90s, early 90s, we have a sambo wrestling tournament in San Diego.

[124] And when we moved to America with no jiu -jitsu events at all.

[125] And we are in search of something similar that we can do to keep the edge.

[126] And we went to some judo tournaments.

[127] We went to wrestling tournaments, not knowing the rules of anything.

[128] And we end up in a samba wrestling tournament.

[129] Sambo, for people who don't know, is a Russian martial art. They wear the judo jacket, but they wear wrestling shoes and shorts.

[130] Yeah, it's kind of a mix of both.

[131] different rules.

[132] I still don't know exactly the rules.

[133] But here we are, and myself, and I would go there, and I saw Hickson in that event.

[134] And when it comes towards the final match, was me and him on the final.

[135] And back that time, we have some conflict inside the family, things that are, I'll keep that in four walls.

[136] Yeah.

[137] But we were not, the relationship wasn't as well as should be.

[138] then when the referee called me it's like, well, I'm not going to fight my instructor my coach, my hero, my idol, no, I'm and I told the ref, no, I'm not fighting.

[139] And even Hickson's like, look at me, and I think in a good way, he knew I would not ever compete against him.

[140] But at the same time, he realized that I would never turn myself against him.

[141] I will fight for him for the rest of my life and period.

[142] And I think it was the point that I was able to engage.

[143] engage back our family things together after this day and showing him that it's all my respect and I will fight for him, never against him.

[144] Well, there was a time where people were trying to use the Gracie name and many people were opening up schools that weren't necessarily really that wasn't their birth name, Gracie, whereas you guys went a different direction and used the Machado name and the Machado name became enormous too.

[145] So there was like, from what I remember in the 90s, when I was.

[146] first started training with you there was uh i started out at hickson's place and i only uh trained there one time and then i went from hickson's place to carlson's place just because it was closer i didn't know any better i thought gracie is gracie oh carlson gracy hickson gris i didn't know anything and i was a white house and i was like oh another gracey oh this is like 10 minutes closer to my house i'll just go here that's how used to be in brazil in the 80s is all gracious schools but then when that place went under carlson lost that place it was on hawthorne that was when v Tor Belfort, made his UFC debut in 1997.

[147] And that place went under, I started training with you.

[148] And when I started training with you, it was like 97 -ish, right?

[149] Somewhere around there, 98, somewhere around there?

[150] I think it was right before Fear Factor.

[151] No, it was a few years before.

[152] Yeah, a few years before.

[153] Fear Factor was 2001.

[154] News Radio's time.

[155] Yes.

[156] I was still on news radio when I was training with you.

[157] But I remember there was like a, oh, you're Machado now.

[158] I'm like, what are you talking about?

[159] I was like, I didn't understand.

[160] Like, oh, there's like Machado.

[161] And then there's, like, two different, like, factions.

[162] The thing that happened at that time was this.

[163] My mother, older sister, she's married to Carlos Gracie's senior.

[164] I mean, he had seven wives.

[165] Hala.

[166] His last wife was my mom's sister.

[167] And that's we grew up with the family.

[168] We don't have the same less name.

[169] But I feel like I am, and all my brothers, the same thing.

[170] We represent the Grace family the best way we can forever, you know, and every day they have a big family, have cousins that you relate better than others, but it's still a family, you know.

[171] And back at that time, two of my brothers were teaching at the Grace School in Carson was Higgen and Carlos.

[172] And I think by that time, Chuck Norris was no longer training with Horian at the Gracie School there.

[173] not sure what happened and he stopped training.

[174] Then one day, some of the, some Czech noise show up at our house, at our garage.

[175] We used to teach in our garage in Redondo Beach and we opened the door, suddenly look.

[176] It's like, man, that guy looks like Chuck Norris.

[177] Then this channel was with him.

[178] This is Chuck Norris.

[179] And we looked like, what?

[180] And he brought him to train.

[181] He did training a few years back at the Gracie School and blah, blah, blah.

[182] It's a long store shot.

[183] Then he started training for us.

[184] And when he started training for us, we become very good friends.

[185] It was amazing.

[186] Like something right away, he invited us to his house.

[187] He's a great guy.

[188] Man, an amazing person, start hanging out.

[189] And by that time, I remember he used to make a movie, one movie a year.

[190] He worked for six months, make a movie, and he has six months off.

[191] When we met him, he was six months off.

[192] Literally, he trains every day.

[193] But when he trained, he doesn't go home.

[194] We have lunch.

[195] He hangs out.

[196] out, go to a movie, then suddenly become good friends.

[197] Then one day, he, after a few months after training with us, he invited us to the valley where he used to live in a scene and said, look, I have surprise for you guys.

[198] Then he took us to a shopping center right on Ventura Boulevard, and he shows, I have a gift for you guys, and he shows one of the units, Matt's, ready, is like a school.

[199] Then he said, look, this is for you guys, that's your school.

[200] Then we look at him, he's like, Boeh Ventura Boulevard, right on the street.

[201] I said, Chuck, we don't think we can afford that.

[202] He said, no, don't worry.

[203] That's my building.

[204] You guys don't have to pay anything.

[205] I just want to make sure I don't have to drive there.

[206] One -on -Wan and four -of -five.

[207] You guys drive.

[208] That's a hell of a drive, that Redondo drive.

[209] And he gave the school to us.

[210] Wow.

[211] Then he's like, what can I tell more about this guy?

[212] That's amazing.

[213] And that's why we have this school in the valley because he used to live in Encinu.

[214] The school was in Encinu.

[215] Then we start coming here.

[216] Then here we are.

[217] Joe Hogan.

[218] Tarzana.

[219] Can invite for our school.

[220] Yeah, that's amazing.

[221] Wow.

[222] What a great guy.

[223] But the point on that conversation was that our school, when we opened our school, is to call Carlos Gracie Jiu -Jitsu because of our uncle.

[224] Because when we came in, we had the Gracie school.

[225] And I remember the family is big, and everybody has your side of story.

[226] Everybody is saying something about.

[227] your uncle, your cousin, and we want to make sure that this side of the film that we were representing, in a way, was Carlos' side.

[228] Then a lot of people, when we did the grand opening, Chuck Norris, were with us doing the self -defense and demonstration in the grand opening of the school.

[229] And that was on Sunday.

[230] On Monday, we're not even ready for the amount of people that show up at our school.

[231] And we have a small place with the amount of people.

[232] amount of people, but a lot of people start calling the other school asking where our school were, because we're not even on the book, yellow book.

[233] Yeah, we are not even on that.

[234] And people calling the other schools, hey, do you know where the other school is?

[235] And they created a little situation back then.

[236] And we got some calls from other cousins and they said, hey, you guys cannot use the name.

[237] Then for the first time, living, using the name of them.

[238] And we got some calls from other cousins and they said, hey, you guys cannot use the name.

[239] for a family, we realized, like, what?

[240] Why not?

[241] Because you don't have the last name.

[242] You can use it.

[243] Then for us, we grew up fighting for the family, doing everything for the family.

[244] We still do.

[245] Nothing changed.

[246] But then their suggestion was, yeah, you can call Machado.

[247] Why you call Gracie name, my family.

[248] Was this because of Horian?

[249] Yes.

[250] Because Horian was a lawyer.

[251] And so he was the one who kind of copyrighted it and wanted to make, he was like trying to sue Carlson at one point, right?

[252] But do you know the crazy thing?

[253] this, we have one of the students and as we learned Jiu -Zitsu, the most important thing for me as an instructor was everybody can learn how to fight.

[254] How can you translate what you learn on the mat to implement on your personal life?

[255] That's how we learn Jiu -Zitsu.

[256] The impact that Jiu -Zitsu has on you, to succeed outside the academy.

[257] I know you can fight, but can you fight on your life outside?

[258] Then it's a different bog.

[259] It's a lot bigger and a lot harder.

[260] And we have a lot of students that came to us when we have our garage time that changed their life.

[261] And coincidentally, one of the students happens to be son of the biggest lawyer in California.

[262] And we have no idea.

[263] Because we end up getting sued by one side of the family.

[264] Then we have no money.

[265] We turn to the students and say, guys, I'm sorry, we're going to have to leave.

[266] So you thought you were going to close down in school.

[267] Oh, yeah.

[268] Then we have this guy, which his father, was very grateful to us, show up.

[269] I said, look, I'm this hot shot lawyer.

[270] I can represent you guys.

[271] Like, we don't have money to pay.

[272] No, you guys are ready.

[273] I owe you because my son was saved by you guys.

[274] And who's your son?

[275] His son was training for us for quite some time.

[276] Became very good Jiu -Tu, to change his life around.

[277] He was a drug addict.

[278] Now he's one of the best yoga instructors out there.

[279] A jiu -suit -addict.

[280] There we go and change his life.

[281] And that lawyer protected us, made sure that we stay here.

[282] fine, protect, and there was on the past.

[283] Today, for all our families, we have our difference back then.

[284] It's less now.

[285] Oh, it's nothing.

[286] Well, there's enough for everybody now.

[287] I think everybody realizes in the beginning, Jiu -Jitsu was so new and so powerful, and that Gracie name was so huge.

[288] Do you remember when V -T -R, they used to call them V -T -R -E -R -N?

[289] Yes.

[290] They would call them Victor, for some reason.

[291] It was Victor, V -I -K -T -O -R, and then it became V -T -O -R.

[292] Like, I was there when they were calling him Victor Gracie.

[293] man do you know the amazing thing I is a fighter and in my generation in Brazil everybody wants to be part of the family of course everybody wants to feel that you and that big circle because it's so much history and it's the name I think in August 12th at your birthday right August 11th August 11th they're going to have a statue of a Carson Gracie being in Copacabana rib I mean a lot of recognitions happen now but Jiu Jiu Jitsu and especially the great Jiu Jiu Jitsu Because anyone that does Jiu -Jit today, you're doing great Jiu -Jitsu somehow.

[294] Yes.

[295] Maybe second generation, third -generation, student of this guy who his instructor was a student -off.

[296] I mean, I think everybody should be, and they are grateful for what their family is done.

[297] Yes, it's the most important family in the history of martial arts by a long shot.

[298] Man, it changed the world.

[299] Change the world.

[300] Change the world.

[301] It changed my world.

[302] I remember when the UFC came out and I watched it.

[303] And I had been a striker my whole life.

[304] And I had done a little wrestling in high school.

[305] But no, Jiu -Jitsu, no submissions, do nothing.

[306] And I watched Hoys Gracie just run through everybody.

[307] And I felt so vulnerable.

[308] I was like, oh, no, I don't know any of this.

[309] What the fuck?

[310] This is how?

[311] I was watching him take guys down and just strangle them.

[312] I'm like, shit.

[313] And these guys were killers.

[314] They were stand -up killers.

[315] And Hoist was just dominating everybody.

[316] I mean, when I was in Arizona, I want to remember the first one, the show on the pay -per -view, and I was in Denver, right, the first U .S .C. And I was teaching a seminar, and I think back those days, the guy paid me $1 ,000 for the weekend, and I was watching a group of guys, and they were not even sure.

[317] And I put the money on the table, I said, hey, who wants to make a bet that the skinny little guy, like, look like a doctor is going to win everything?

[318] And everybody, like, no, no, that guy, okay, put the money down.

[319] Nobody put the money down.

[320] And here we are, because we knew what Jiu -Zitsu is.

[321] We knew the Jiu -Zitsu works.

[322] And I think Jiu -Zitsu brought a lot of reality into the martial arts world.

[323] Oh, yeah.

[324] We made a lot of enemies that today are our friends because we showed something that people refuse to learn until they have no other choice.

[325] They have no other choice now.

[326] You know?

[327] Man, we have UFC, the biggest fighting show in the world.

[328] Where did they come from?

[329] Came from Haurian.

[330] There we go, came from the streets in Brazil to the world.

[331] And Horian Gracie, who we all owe a huge debt to, he wanted to prove the effectiveness of Gracie Jiu -Jitsu.

[332] So he established the ultimate fighting championship.

[333] And that's where it came from.

[334] It came from that guy's imagination and his desire to spread the word of his family.

[335] That's what Jujitsu do for people, make you believe.

[336] Yeah.

[337] Imagine if he did not believe in what he has and what he learned.

[338] Yeah.

[339] It will be, none of us will be here at all.

[340] talking today.

[341] Yeah, true.

[342] We're probably still doing something else and maybe not as happy as we are today.

[343] It's, it's amazing, man. The whole story is...

[344] It's hard for people to understand, too, that have never practiced it, how fun it is.

[345] You know, it's, it's, and it means, and it makes your mind a better thing.

[346] I was telling some of the students, jujitsu is a health way for you to be bullying by someone.

[347] You're in a school, in the environment, and you have the high belts, playing with their white belts day in, day out the white belts come in.

[348] It's literally been bullying in a half way because it's an hour safe environment.

[349] Well, it's not bullying where you're not getting picked on but you're getting manhandled.

[350] Then the thing is they get smashed daily they come back for next class.

[351] Yes.

[352] Next class.

[353] Until soon they're going to start to be able to do the same thing.

[354] Yes.

[355] And that little step they do, they realize like, well, I'm being picked by someone now.

[356] I stand by myself and I'm able to, and he turned the table around.

[357] It's a very health way to be picked up, smash every day, that if you stay there, stick there, you're going to use that, you're going to reverse that.

[358] You get choked, pretty soon going to be choking someone.

[359] You're going to unbar someone.

[360] And it's walking up in the stairs, and that's how we grew up.

[361] We go to the schools, we get beat up by the older cousins, and, oh, man, I don't think that's for me, but then we come back one more time.

[362] Then you come back one more time.

[363] Then 40 years later, you're still coming back for one more time.

[364] Well, it teaches you not just resilience, but how important it is to just keep showing up.

[365] Man, it's fun.

[366] It's the whole thing.

[367] You get choked to go home.

[368] Like, how that guy choked me?

[369] I thought I knew how to defend that.

[370] How did he make me turn in the way that he got the choke?

[371] Then it's intrigued.

[372] Then you keep in, and back in the 80s, we have no videos.

[373] We have to try to memorize and see how this actually happened.

[374] It was a lot more challenging because you have to try to remake it.

[375] Not sure if that's what actually happened to you.

[376] But the amazing thing, I remember a lot of times I'm looking around the mats, I have all my brothers, all my cousins.

[377] It's no way someone in this room would not have the answer for the question that you have.

[378] Right.

[379] And you have so many different views that is impossible for you not to learn and not get good in Jiu -Jitsu.

[380] You have so many amazing fighters out there knowing more than you know, then I remember, every time I ask something to the technique, I get five different answers to you.

[381] And I use the one that works for me. Well, that's what's interesting, right?

[382] I said everyone has a different approach.

[383] That Jiu -Jitsu is almost like the way people talk.

[384] It's like having conversations.

[385] People use different words and different styles.

[386] And the amazing thing is, let's see we train and I do well with you.

[387] Then you train with that guy, you do well with that guy.

[388] In the theory, I should be doing well with the guy.

[389] No, maybe his game does not fit with my game.

[390] I might have a lot of difficulties against him, which I shouldn't.

[391] Right.

[392] But it's the match -up game.

[393] It's very interesting.

[394] It's nothing that is guaranteed.

[395] Oh, that guy is going to.

[396] No, it's not.

[397] Right.

[398] Maybe my game is used to yours, but not to his.

[399] Well, that was the most amazing thing about Hickson, right?

[400] Because Hickson was the one guy that everyone said was the best.

[401] When I grew up, and I have to say, it was a privilege to watch.

[402] For me, I have some guys from Carson School.

[403] There was amazing fighters.

[404] Used to watch them, and I remember one of them, Cassio Cardoso.

[405] for me was phenomenal.

[406] We have definitely Hoyler for his size, his weight.

[407] Most accomplished.

[408] Phenomenal.

[409] All the grace is in competition, the most accomplished.

[410] What this guy did with his size against opponents and people look like that, no way.

[411] And yes, it is a way.

[412] Yeah.

[413] And definitely, as you go in heavier, I have my brother Higgen, which was an amazing fighter too.

[414] And evidently, for me, my time, with Hickson it's like you have the era of Hickson a lot of unbelievable fighters but you're in the wrong decade have Hickson there you know could be you but he was right there right you could have been number you're number two under Hickson you could have been number one under anybody else and the amazing thing you feel like a chameleon he can kind of make any game you train of him he can pretend to be you fighting me or anybody it's amazing that aspect especially on the teaching process.

[415] What was so good about him?

[416] He used to go to our school.

[417] We have 30 of the best guys, all higher belts.

[418] And he tells you, okay, choose how you want to start.

[419] And he chooses, okay, he's not going to get out.

[420] He gets out, and he gets you in the position you ask him to start.

[421] With everyone, I think the most, the best thing that he has on his game, on my view, and should I understand that, was his defense.

[422] no way to get him he let your mom take his back do whatever you want you can't get him he used to start like guys take his back with a rear naked choke fully locked in black belts go ahead start from here and then he would defend get out and get you there yeah crazy then messes your mind up like hey wait a minute yeah how can he get out and he gets me here can get out you know and I think the amazing thing was his confidence and believe on that and makes amazing well he was unusual in that he was really into physical fitness as well like yoga really into yoga become incredibly flexible and strong and really into breathing he had an amazing control of his body as well as the knowledge of jiu -zitsu man he brought a lot of elements to jiu -tzu that I don't think people realize how important it was because people said oh I knew that no you did not he brought in the breathing aspect.

[423] The gymnastics that makes you come closer to the nature habitat.

[424] Yeah, gymnastics natural is what we're talking about.

[425] It's a style of...

[426] Who invented that?

[427] What was the man who invented that?

[428] Orlando Coney.

[429] It was a Brazilian thing as well.

[430] Brazilian guy, he's still alive on his 80s and he look at him like, how can he do or still do that?

[431] Really?

[432] And the whole idea is move your body like the animals.

[433] Right.

[434] To bring back to us the animal instinct.

[435] that we end up losing by the generations.

[436] You see some of that now with Ido Portal and a lot of these guys are training martial artists in these movement, like movement classes and movement styles.

[437] And a lot of that is very similar to gymnastics and natural.

[438] Amazing, but the biggest difference, I think, was the concept that he used, the approach that he used, wasn't as just mechanical the way it is.

[439] It was something that sometimes on the...

[440] exercise, you change the direction of your movements.

[441] It's not certain cata.

[442] You have to do one, two, three, four.

[443] No, he goes, one, two, jump in four, ten, go back to six.

[444] You flow.

[445] And Hickson brought that into Jiu -Jitsu.

[446] And I remember train, he goes, hey, get there.

[447] Keep moving.

[448] Keep moving.

[449] Don't stop moving.

[450] Keep the flow of the technique.

[451] You're going to get it.

[452] And he brought that movement into Jiu -Zitsu, which for me made a, A huge difference in the way I fight.

[453] How did you fight before that?

[454] We learned the technique.

[455] We do the drills.

[456] And it's more like you pause and wait for somebody to pause in this position.

[457] When he came in, I understand that you learn how to start guiding people to where you want them to go.

[458] I'm training a few.

[459] I want you to go to my left.

[460] There's no other way for you to go to my right.

[461] I learned how to mold my body in a way.

[462] The only direction you will have to go is on my left.

[463] I know that, but you don't.

[464] Right.

[465] There we go.

[466] I want to step ahead.

[467] Then when you go to my left, you're going to put your left hand on the ground instead of your right hand.

[468] I know that too.

[469] Then now I'm two steps ahead of you.

[470] I mean, when you're trying to defend something, you're ready two steps behind.

[471] Because the defense is always shorter than the offense.

[472] You stretch your arm.

[473] For me to get your arm, I have to put my hands and swing my leg.

[474] Before you, just bring your arm back.

[475] Right.

[476] It's always short.

[477] It's quicker.

[478] that's why when you have one or two steps ahead you don't have the time to defend right you're blocking off the defense I'm already too far ahead for you to defend and that's what I learned with those movements that he brought into jiu -jitsu you start learning how to guide and mold yourself to make you go to that direction who was a challenge to him in the early days because there was a lot of great guys right we have a lot of great guys and it's funny sometimes I see on the go to the internet and see some of the fights and you notice that a lot of guys they can kind of hang out for until five minutes after five minutes and great athletes they're just done because of that movement he kept going constantly keep that rhythm people were not able to keep up with him right and he's not lifting weights and the body building no he's and we learn how important for human needs to be in contact with nature would you imagine yourself not going for hiking some days in the morning.

[479] I mean, we need that.

[480] We need that energy.

[481] Yeah.

[482] We need to walk without shoes.

[483] We need to be near the mountains, the water.

[484] That's something that makes us healthy and stronger.

[485] And that's why you see we used to go a lot up in the mountains and waterfalls and out of the city to trying to get that in a halfway animal instinct that we have.

[486] Yeah.

[487] We're there, listen to the birds, listen to in the middle of, maybe it's a coyote there.

[488] are people that on the city they go in the mountains they're going to get eaten by a mountain lie not even hear the mountain line but if you walk in there quite often you understand that you'll develop and still have that oh I heard something there we're losing more of that as Jiu Jitsu we're trying to bring people into that environment which is something they make you better off regardless be more aware of yourself exactly yeah more primal and And also the struggle of Jiu -Jitsu is so much different than what most people experience in a daily basis where you're literally trying to stop someone from choking you.

[489] And it's a friend, like a good friend.

[490] Like you love them like a brother, yeah.

[491] But they're trying to choke the shit out of you and you're trying to stop them.

[492] And the amazing thing, you're trying to stop and you don't get mad at him.

[493] Not at all.

[494] You say, thank you, man. Slap hands.

[495] And then I say, how'd you get me?

[496] Like, oh, you forgot this.

[497] Like, oh, God.

[498] Here we go.

[499] It's the amazing thing.

[500] One student said something like, do you know why jih Tzu people are so friendly?

[501] Because they hug each other at the time.

[502] And I don't know what?

[503] I think you're right.

[504] There's something to that.

[505] Yeah, well, there's so much physical contact.

[506] That is true.

[507] There's something to that.

[508] But I think it's the eye contact, the talking to each other in that exchange of information.

[509] It's also humbling, which I think people need.

[510] I think people have a distorted perception.

[511] of what they can do in this life and I think sometimes you need to understand this is where you are and one of the beautiful things about the ranking system of jiu -jitsu is you know when you give someone a purple belt you say hey this is real you're ready for this I've seen you I watch you I know 100 % where they are they're ready to get a purple belt and then it's this feeling like okay all this showing up day after day drilling after drilling coming in when I don't want to is this paying off and I've reached a new place It's always like when you promote someone's a flashback, they go back like, whoa.

[512] They realize all this time that are bringing in a very good way, suffering, going through this, it worth.

[513] I'm right here right now feeling much better.

[514] When you gave me my purple belt, I remember thinking, that was probably one of the happiest moments of my life.

[515] Because to me, a purple belt was like, a blue belt was like you just kept showing up.

[516] You kept showing up.

[517] You kept showing up.

[518] Now you got a blue belt.

[519] But a purple belt was like, you could get a black belt.

[520] You just have to keep going.

[521] Even the top of the mountains is a purple belt.

[522] You're right there with all the top guys.

[523] There's no way down.

[524] There is just up.

[525] You're right there with all of them.

[526] That was during the Fear Factor days.

[527] I was more happy about getting that purple belt than I was about getting Fear Factor.

[528] I have to mention some because I get a lot of message from people like, oh man, it's Joe Hogan good and Joggan and Jujits is good.

[529] Say, man, come to my school.

[530] any time Joe Hogan shows up.

[531] And he's back now training.

[532] It's not about his power, man. He doesn't care.

[533] He wrestles everybody, anybody.

[534] And I see him twisted people around there in the school.

[535] And this is real.

[536] He's one of the hardest students training partners that I have.

[537] And I think one of the last time I wrestled him in my Malibu school, I think we trained maybe for half an hour or something like that.

[538] I was there for, I don't know, 20 minutes.

[539] just trying to sweep Joe, and Joe was right there.

[540] I finished the training.

[541] I said, man, my legs are sore.

[542] And I don't remember if I did sweep him or not.

[543] It just stopped training after half an hour.

[544] And I want people to understand, it's anybody that I want to train, I would never, and I refuse, I never give a belt to anybody unless they deserve the belt.

[545] And when I say it deserves is I don't defer people from more famous, less famous, thought, no, it's everybody in Jujitsu world is the same.

[546] You have to walk in the same road as everybody.

[547] Because that's the only way you're actually going to learn Jiu -Jitsu for real.

[548] Yes.

[549] And I don't remember you say no to anybody, training, get hurt a lot of times.

[550] Don't care, show up, and my neck is here, my knee's there in training.

[551] And you're out there that you listen.

[552] He's the strongest, excuse my language, motherfuckers I have in my school, training Jiu -Zitsu with.

[553] and that's why I'm here I'm pushing him to get back and I'm going to show up now that I know where he is I'm going to show up here what's up Joe where's your deal this man as soon as I heal this fucking name that is amazing and I want people to know that's the real deal another thing that people don't know is when he was back in the fear factor time he had one idea to one of the challenge for the people would be training fighting a cage with me in that case doing jiu -jitsu and they didn't realize joe you don't need me you go there and do it poor you you're gonna mango everybody there you don't need anybody to do that yeah he went up not happening and uh they decided that it was too dangerous to do a person versus a person they thought that there was too many legal implications exactly meanwhile they have people ride a fucking bull it didn't make any sense but so the challenge was they were going to have to start with you on the ground like in your guard or with you mounting them we're going to figure out what it was and whoever survived the longest you know like the the one person who's about the longest you don't need me you can use joe joe's going to do the same thing and going to twist whatever needs to do he has all the tools for that that was funny it the point was you you can do it there was no need for me to do it how do you how are you still fairly injury -free after all these years Because what's interesting about you is, you know, you've been doing jiu -jitsu forever, but you can still roll and train with people.

[554] A lot of other guys, after a certain amount of time, they really can't roll anymore.

[555] They develop all these back problems, back problems in particular, neck problems.

[556] I learned, I mean, more you learn Jiu -Zitsu, less chance you have to get hurt.

[557] And my point is, I'm always under control.

[558] I'm always controlling my opponent.

[559] And I know how to avoid certain situations before the same.

[560] situation actually happened because a lot of times people go for the kill but not concerned about them getting killed sometimes they expose themselves right to be in a bad position and they have to learn sometimes you do an arm bar and somebody and somebody put all the weight on your neck and i see people insisting in getting there no you go back give up keep the control then you do it again right but not insisting some bad positions and every day it has to do how well do you eat how well do you sleep Do you exercise?

[561] I mean, a lot of other things are involved.

[562] But exercise, you mean like lift weights?

[563] Lift weights and run, you know, and swim.

[564] You have so many things that you can do.

[565] And people say, oh, no, everybody's going to die one day.

[566] Sure, we can die tomorrow, but I want to make sure the time I'm alive, I'm healthy.

[567] Right.

[568] And I don't see myself going to Jiu -Zitsu school, teaching, and not training.

[569] But even Hickson can't train anymore.

[570] Oh, now he's back training.

[571] He's rolling?

[572] Yes, he's rolling now.

[573] When did he start rolling again?

[574] I saw one of his students, they train.

[575] I mean, last week, just for an hour.

[576] Wow.

[577] We had an injury, and you got to understand a lot of...

[578] Real bad back problem, right?

[579] Yes, the back and the hip, a lot of things.

[580] And a lot of those things happened more, not with Jiu -Jitz with some of the M .M .A. fights.

[581] I got to understand back those days, with no protection at all.

[582] Right, no rules.

[583] People throw each other out of the ring, and that was something very, very challenging, no -weight class.

[584] Yeah.

[585] He showed up as a young age fighting some monsters over there, and it's like, man. and I don't know how he did it, but he did it, you know, showing up.

[586] But Zulu when he was 18.

[587] The Zulu is insane.

[588] He was so strong.

[589] It was more from that time.

[590] The next Jiu Jitsu.

[591] Jiu Jitsu never got hurt to Jiu Jitsu.

[592] Poor neck or nothing.

[593] Then he's back training.

[594] Man, I would love it.

[595] Jiu Jitsu is amazing, man. I don't see myself with 80 years old not be able to train.

[596] Didn't you, you got a cortisone shot recently?

[597] I, yeah, I'm not sure what happened in my.

[598] My knee bugs me and I go there.

[599] I have a little meniscus tear.

[600] I'm still training.

[601] Have a certain position that it's not comfortable.

[602] I have the cortisone shot and so far so good.

[603] Not bothering you anymore?

[604] Not bothering me. You have a center position that, but the physical therapy that I'm doing is being very helpful.

[605] What kind of stuff are you doing?

[606] And lift weights and every day on a bike, doing things that make your legs stronger.

[607] Bike's great.

[608] Oh, bike is amazing.

[609] So good for the knees.

[610] No impact.

[611] I mean.

[612] I think we have everything we need.

[613] If I don't have, I can learn how to do it.

[614] But, man, Jiu -Jitsu is a lifestyle in general.

[615] Yes.

[616] Yeah, it is.

[617] It's almost like, it's like a philosophy, too, because there's a lot of people that they learn how to deal with life through the struggle of Jiu -Jitsu, because the struggle of training is so much harder than most of the struggles that you face in your daily life.

[618] It makes you more accustomed to dealing with uncomfortable.

[619] Well, man, I will tell a funny story that what Jiu -Zitsu does for you.

[620] I, my, my older daughter had some health issues like at 2 o 'clock in the morning, something like that, and called the doctor and said, look, I got to go and get this inhaler or something at the pharmacy.

[621] Man, I always wear my pajamas, driving crazy to the pharmacy.

[622] And as I'm walking in, have a guy walking out and bump his shoulder and mine.

[623] Hey, son of a day, he's a few, and I said, man, two 30 in the morning.

[624] want to fight.

[625] Go home.

[626] Go to your wife, dude.

[627] Then the guy, now I'm going to wait for you.

[628] Then he's outside.

[629] I go get the medication.

[630] I put this stuff in and say, man, get the guy outside.

[631] He's no longer there.

[632] Several months later, the same guy show up in my school.

[633] And I did not recognize him, but he keeps staring at me. And I approach, hey, how are you?

[634] Have you trained Jutes before?

[635] He's like, do you remember me?

[636] Did you train here before?

[637] No. I bump into you in the pharmacy.

[638] And it goes like, thank you for not hurting me. And I goes like, man, what happened to you?

[639] Oh, my father passed away a day before.

[640] I was so depressed.

[641] So the point for me was with Jiu -Jitsu, I can walk away for something like that.

[642] And I feel sorry for the guy.

[643] Yeah.

[644] I'm not concerned.

[645] Oh, I'm afraid of him.

[646] No, I'm not afraid.

[647] It's just a fact that I'm saving him to get hurt.

[648] Right.

[649] Today he's one of my best friends.

[650] He's my lawyer.

[651] my dear friend he's been training Jitsu for since that time almost as 20 years but I remember that they walking in and the guy bunk into me you want to fight wow and it's like man I walk away no no no no you're too strong for me man go home and relax that's the difference too between Jiu Jitsu and kickboxing because the kickboxing you can only hurt somebody you can't really like hold on to him and go hey hey hey you ever see the video you ever see the video yeah right he was already alerted you ever see the video of Matt Sarah Matt Sarah was in an altercation with some drunk guy in a bar or a restaurant or something like that I think I saw that in meanwhile Matt just took the guy down mounted him and just holding on to his wrist and he's like calm down calm down and the employers are like trying to figure out what to do he's like he's fine he's fine calm down but you know Matt didn't hurt him he just held onto him and basically just mounted him and grabbed a hold of his wrists and was controlling him and when we say Jiu Jiu Jitsu is a gentle art Yeah We mean that Yes Jiu Jiu Jitsu will give you the choice To choose to hurt someone Or not Yeah And I think more you're trying You realize that That person has something Already going on in their life Right And we choose not to Yeah I mean we grew up in our time And it's funny With teenagers and no Jiu Jitsu tournaments Then we go like How are we going to test ourselves And back in the 80s in Brazil, we have some fun time.

[652] We go to a nightclub and fight breaks through, and here we are, practicing our jiu -jitsu, but not hurting anybody.

[653] And not because we choose or somebody provoke, no, we get people coming towards us because we're always little guys.

[654] We're never the biggest guys in the place.

[655] Then we just make sure, like, man, we take them down, hold, choke somebody out, but no scratch.

[656] And on the end, those people become students of our school.

[657] Right.

[658] How those little kids can do that to us.

[659] Right.

[660] And that's one way that's funny in the 80s that Jiu -Zitsu became even bigger.

[661] With some of the altercation on the street, we convinced the person that we just fought, we just choked, to come and become our student.

[662] Because you didn't hurt them.

[663] And they end up coming and learn that.

[664] They feel humiliated, but at least they feel thankful that you didn't injure them.

[665] For sure, yeah.

[666] And in a fight, man, I think you should give you that sense of control.

[667] Yes.

[668] That you have that choice.

[669] Well, this is the way I always explain to people.

[670] I say if I'm in a street fight with someone and they're swinging, if it's a strong person, if a strong person, they're good athlete, they have strong arms and they're throwing punches at me. If I get hit, I'm in trouble.

[671] No matter who you are, if you get hit, you're in trouble.

[672] Most likely I won't get hit if I know how to fight and I keep my hands up and I move right.

[673] But if I get a hold of you, you're not doing anything to me. Like there's a difference between like someone who's untrained and someone who's trained.

[674] Like if a jiu -jitsu black belt grabs a person and actually gets control of them, there's no lucky, you're not going to luckily submit me. You know, it's not going to happen.

[675] But you can luckily, you could hit someone.

[676] It can happen in a street fight.

[677] If someone has a little bit of speed and they have power and there's a strong person, they can hit you.

[678] It's much more dangerous.

[679] And that's the only, and we always wanted to train, it was the only opportunity our opponent has is before we close the distance.

[680] Right.

[681] That's the danger zone.

[682] And if you think for a second, a lot of things that we do on the ground in Jiu -Zitsu, you just bring those two people up in the close distance.

[683] It's the same thing.

[684] And a lot of people today, they don't do the same.

[685] They're trying to fight standing when they hold, different than when you're on the ground.

[686] The way you move your legs, the way you play guard, it's the same thing when you stand.

[687] work on the people's body as a hook as a sweep to make somebody fall.

[688] And we learn that when we get close to someone, we make the size not be affected as much as could if you have a distance.

[689] Do you think that there was a transitionary period where a lot of jujutsu guys were having a hard time because they didn't know how to take people down.

[690] And then the wrestlers were learning how to keep them at distance.

[691] They were learning take down defense.

[692] Yes.

[693] And that's the very challenging thing.

[694] But if I'm fighting a wrestler, what are the chances that he's going to take me down?

[695] It's higher than me, actually, taking him down.

[696] Right.

[697] And most of the things that we're doing in the Jiu -Jitsu, on what we see in the sport Jiu -Jitsu today, we're not going to use in a real fight.

[698] Most of the Jiu -Jitsu is in a tournament, we're not going to use that in a fight.

[699] That's the difference from that generation of the 80s to the generations from the until up today.

[700] It's two different kinds of jiu -jitsu.

[701] One is a sport which is very beautiful.

[702] A lot of people do amazing techniques, but the rules of the sport had the tendons to take to another direction.

[703] And when you have the jiu -tsu as the 80s, we practice using a lot of leverage with their arms, patience.

[704] And when we play guard in the 80s, it's different than we play today.

[705] Today you have a lot of geese wrapping around everything.

[706] The key became a weapon.

[707] Right.

[708] And our time, they give us never a weapon.

[709] They give us almost like a paper.

[710] Right.

[711] We use a lot of the neck, a lot of the elbow.

[712] Well, that's what helped you when you transition to no ghee, right?

[713] Well, definitely.

[714] And also because you were born with no fingers on your left hand.

[715] Man, for me until today's no difference.

[716] Right.

[717] I play exactly the same in both.

[718] Right.

[719] No difference at all.

[720] But you were all overhooks and underhooks and grips around the body and Whereas the guys who transitioned to MMA and their all game relied on grabbing collars and sleeves, those guys had the harder time.

[721] For sure.

[722] A lot of guys, that's why a lot of guys are trying to come in, they might be good on their top games, but when they go on their back, they are kind of a little lost until they understand how to play the game.

[723] Yeah, that's why it's so impressive when you see a big guy who also has a great back, great off his back, like Fabricio over.

[724] do them.

[725] I think if you notice, if I'm on the bottom of someone and I'm flat, I'm a target.

[726] Right.

[727] I have to change the angle.

[728] If I don't change the angle, I'm going to get ground and pound.

[729] Right.

[730] Like we've been seeing a lot.

[731] You see some, oh, this is a black baron jiu -jitsu.

[732] Then you go like, oh, he's flat.

[733] He's flat on his back.

[734] I mean, all my weight now is affecting you.

[735] I'm dropping you.

[736] You have to learn that your legs should be an angle.

[737] This way I'm not able to hit you there.

[738] Your legs are on the way.

[739] and that's one thing that very few guys do it or you close the distance or you change the angle but it can be look at him trying to hold his neck he's going to hit you hard well Eddie figured out a brilliant thing with rubber guard when with a brilliant thing with mission control and how to control from the back of the neck he closes the distance he closes the distance he changed a lot of people's games what some people don't want to recognize but they have to is the idea that he had.

[740] And I remember him coming up and trying some of the techniques and people, oh, this is crazy.

[741] I said, no, man, keep going.

[742] This is, you're going to get somewhere.

[743] I don't think not everybody can do that because you have to be a little bit flexible, but once you learn how to do it, you save your life.

[744] How many guys that, when they get a hold of their foot and keep that close, there's no gap or room for the person on top to hit you.

[745] And as you're trying to move too much, your arms suddenly is stuck.

[746] Yep.

[747] And there we go.

[748] He closes the distance.

[749] You can't be playing when my arms are free because I'm going to ground and pound you, especially the heavy guys, man. Yeah, he hit once or twice, that's it.

[750] Mm -hmm.

[751] Yeah, he figured out some very unique ways to use his legs.

[752] And you notice that you close the distance or he changed the angle.

[753] Close the distance, change the angle.

[754] Whether it's on top, you don't have space or you don't have the angle.

[755] You're always in a weird position.

[756] when they get a hold of your head and the leg the way he does.

[757] It's interesting to see the evolution of jiu -jitsu from 1993 UFC style to 2019, too.

[758] There's so many new techniques, there's so many new approaches, but there's some guys like Hodger Gracie, for instance, who just use the basics honed to razor -sharp edge.

[759] You don't see a lot of crazy barambolo chokes or wild things from a guy.

[760] those a lot of the like real rock solid traditional techniques guys he the simple works all the time yes whichever simple works all the time yeah anything jiu juts that require more than three steps you need to train a lot but even hickson right like hickson's style was the just it wasn't anything that no one knew how to do it's just he knew how to do it better than anyone there we go he's the way he moved.

[761] Yes.

[762] You can't find him.

[763] Right.

[764] And once you find him, he gets out and gets you.

[765] He goes around your back.

[766] It was amazing, man. Triangles, arm bars, rear naked chokes, normal stuff, normal things that everybody knows how to do.

[767] You get to his guard, you know you're going to fall in the back.

[768] Simple as that.

[769] Oh, I'm his guard.

[770] I'm going to fall on his back.

[771] Oh, he's going to sweep me. Yeah.

[772] Oh, I'm not going to sweep.

[773] Oh, he's going to unbar me. I mean, it's not much where you can feel safe.

[774] And today you see a lot of, But the jujitsu you have, you need something called transition.

[775] You go for number one, beginning the position, transition, then you have the submission.

[776] Today they jump from number one beginning to the submission.

[777] There's no transition.

[778] The transition now is become muscle.

[779] They have to overpower.

[780] I never seen so many injuries today in the jiu -jitsu competition.

[781] Really?

[782] So many injuries, shoulders, knee, foot, elbow.

[783] Like, my God.

[784] What do you think it's from?

[785] Because it's no, you're missing a lot of sometimes the finesse to get there.

[786] They have to muscle.

[787] Well, that's one of the reason why I wanted to talk to you about your longevity.

[788] Because you are the best guy that I know of in terms of like you, you are, I mean, you have a little knee injury, a little meniscus, but that's it.

[789] I've known you forever.

[790] You've never had like a major surgery.

[791] You've never had like a major problem.

[792] And everybody I know gets hurt.

[793] Everybody.

[794] I mean, again, it's the way you train, the way you control the fight.

[795] I think people got to understand is, I'd rather get you once, but I get you well than trying to get you 20 times.

[796] Sometimes people are trying to go after each other, and the injury will happen.

[797] Right.

[798] Because they're clashing.

[799] Exactly.

[800] If I have somebody come very tense to me, I don't play tense back.

[801] I try to relax.

[802] More you relax, more I'm going to be able to achieve against you.

[803] I remember when you competed against Dean Lister and he was about 250 ,000 pounds.

[804] Dean was so fucking big.

[805] He was so big.

[806] Man. But you were able to use your technique.

[807] There was a very bit frustration for me on that event because I remember was training to be in my weight class below 170.

[808] And that year I was Marcelo Garcia.

[809] We have some good names, good guys to fight.

[810] And I was training a lot for that.

[811] And I think a week and a half before the event, Arona was supposed to fight the enlistre.

[812] But back in those days, I think his contract with pride did not allow him to fight because their concern is an injury happening and he's going to be missing the pride fight.

[813] Then they come a week and a half to offer me that fight and end up taking their fight.

[814] but I don't think I train any specific in focus to fight Dean.

[815] And I think the fight was, honest for me, Dean, it was a monster, but it wasn't a good fight.

[816] It was not much happening on the fight.

[817] It was mostly defense and stuff.

[818] And I felt the difference in the, I was so light.

[819] And I did not train if anybody heavy, because I was fighting under one seven.

[820] I was just trying if people that way class and lower to get the speed, to be ready for those guys.

[821] Then here, yeah, a week and a half I don't think I was feeling ready for fight somebody this big My strategy, I have no strategy back down I said, okay, let's try to move But he was very smart, not moving much I have evident to be worried about him Grab a hold, got a hold of my foot And I think it was 20 minutes Not much happened on the fight And for me was Frustrated not be ready for a fight like that because it was training to fight in a lower class.

[822] I was so ready.

[823] And I regret not doing that.

[824] It would be amazing.

[825] But for all the reasons, I end up moving up, and no problem.

[826] Well, when you did do Abu Dhabi the first time, I think it was a wake -up call for a lot of people that, you know, because of, you know, being born with no fingers in your hand and your approach to jiu -jitsu being so overhook and underhook -powered, you know, you transitioned so smoothly into no ghee.

[827] Whereas a lot of guys from your era, they would go and transition into no ghee, and they were missing so many tools because they're so used to grabbing the ghee.

[828] I remember when you got a call to go in 99, and they said the rules would be 10 minutes, five minutes, first five, nothing counts.

[829] Right.

[830] Then after five, whatever the rules were, I don't even know today what the rules were anyways, what counts or not count.

[831] But then I realized, man, the first five minutes not count, that's, let's go.

[832] Right.

[833] So if people don't know what we're saying here, Abu Dhabi is a very strange rule set.

[834] So for the 10 -minute round, the first five minutes of it, there's no points.

[835] It doesn't matter what happens.

[836] If someone takes you back, if you get mounted, you get into a triangle, but you escape, there's no points.

[837] Then I just go bring the guy to the ground, pull guard right away, and let's go.

[838] Right.

[839] And I think we're surprised for a lot of people because right from the bat, I keep going all the way.

[840] And again, with the transition that, for me, I have no transitions, the same gear, no gay.

[841] Right.

[842] And I felt at home.

[843] Yes.

[844] That's what I do every day.

[845] Right.

[846] And I felt a lot of guys not sure how to behave.

[847] But on my mind, the first five minutes, nothing counts.

[848] It doesn't matter if it mounts me, take my back or do anything, nothing.

[849] It's really sick.

[850] The whole idea is to make people actually go after each other.

[851] Right.

[852] But when I get there, I see people waiting, standing five minutes.

[853] minutes walking around waiting for the five minutes to be up so they get a take down and then win on one point yeah this is opposite but jujitsu is yeah and i said hell no let's let's go to the ground see if he's better grappling than me good if it's not good but it was a wake -up call for a lot of people because they got to see you who did you fight in that first year you fought saurai right i yeah fought uh who was a big -time m -mama fighter at the time sakura i think they were well -known on the MMA world over there.

[854] Also known as being really good grapplers, so it was very eye -opening for people to see you run through them.

[855] If I'm not wrong with the first loss for Sakurai, his first loss.

[856] But it was fine.

[857] I think for me it's my world, and let's see if you're better grappler, good.

[858] If you're not, there we go.

[859] Good for me. It was fun.

[860] And I think it was very good for me to all the ADCCC, I was able to be among the best three guys.

[861] And that was, for me, was a great accomplishment, being able to stay up on the top of the game and fighting the lighter guys, the heavier guys.

[862] It was in special no gear, which was something that it takes for a lot of people some kind of adjustment.

[863] Because they born in the geese in their game on the ghee, and they have actually some hard time to.

[864] And a lot of them even gave up Like I forget it Now in the early days of Jiu -Jitsu There was a lot of Nogi guys On the Lutu Leveri side Right There was a big, for people don't understand There's a big rivalry In Rio Between Jiu -Jitsu and Lut -Liveri.

[865] A lot of times You have people that come to our school And they don't fit in And they walk away And if I understood back those days, those guys were some of these people that did not fit into the jiu -jitsu schools and they end up creating their own no -gui school.

[866] But you got to understand that in the 80s our generation, in Rio de Janeiro's summertime, man, it's 110, 115, extremely humid.

[867] And we did a lot of trainings.

[868] We trained the ghee and after the ghee session, take the top of the ghee out, and here we go.

[869] We train Logi.

[870] Since we're white belts, we've been doing that.

[871] Because the intent were learning how to get out of our headlock, how to be on the bottom, somebody trying to slap you, what do you do?

[872] And that was our train in that generation.

[873] That's why almost everyone from the 80s is still up -to -day teaching and making a great school.

[874] All that generation still, the longevity of them being doing Jiu -Jitsu, still out there.

[875] A lot of guys that I see now, especially with the social media, they're all teaching, they're all doing very well.

[876] A lot of them too big.

[877] Some of them still in good shape and teaching.

[878] But that generation, I think, for me, was a gold generation because they're still out there.

[879] And the people that come from that generation, their students, they develop such a good Jiu -Zitsu roots.

[880] Is there still Lutut liver anywhere?

[881] I think.

[882] I think they still have there.

[883] But there's not a rivalry anymore, right?

[884] No, I don't think today passed that time.

[885] And I think that the rivalry was a need for our generation to establish jiu -jitsu as a very effective art. And I think some of the MMA events that happened was the fight should be happening on the street, then we're able to bring that and to make into an arena.

[886] This way, only the two guys would be fighting, not innocent people get hurt on the street.

[887] And I think what people don't realize is a lot of those fights could be happening right on a nightclub or some people even get killed.

[888] Now, let's bring their fight into the arena.

[889] Only you two guys, nobody else is going to get hurt.

[890] And that's why a lot of those events happen.

[891] No money, no prize money, nothing.

[892] Just for pride.

[893] There's some videos of some of them that still exist, you know?

[894] Just for pride.

[895] There's no money involving any of those events.

[896] Who did Hickson fight on the beach?

[897] Who was that?

[898] Hickson fight Hugo Duarte.

[899] That's right.

[900] Hugo Duarte went up to fight in Pride.

[901] He fought Tank Abbott, right?

[902] Man. He fought some different people in the M .A. I remember that they were so funny because we have a point on the beach in Rio that is where most of the issues, where the pretty girls were.

[903] And all the guys who go in that session on the beach, very famous people, and then everybody go on that session.

[904] And we keep here that Hugo Challenge Higgson, Google Challenge Hickson, Hugo Challenge Higgson, Hugo Challenge Higgson.

[905] Here it is right here.

[906] There we go.

[907] Smacked him in the face.

[908] Then Hickson was like, no, he didn't see anything.

[909] I'm right.

[910] There's some walking right there, and light shorts there.

[911] My mission were Hickson look at me and say, hey, watch my back.

[912] Where were you?

[913] I'm the one.

[914] Okay, I'm off of the screen now.

[915] Right on my left, you're going to see me standing there.

[916] Oh, I'm right.

[917] If I get up, I can show you.

[918] So what year is this?

[919] What year is this?

[920] Man, sometime in the 80s.

[921] And do you know who's filming that?

[922] We have High and Gracie.

[923] He was sitting someone's shoulders with a camera.

[924] Crazy to try to see.

[925] Oh, no, man. I was getting...

[926] So many bodies.

[927] I was getting punched on the head on his back just because I was watching Hickson's.

[928] But everybody didn't jump in.

[929] No, no, no. What we did was we made a circle, arms to arms.

[930] and Hickson's the one with the green shorts, right, green striped?

[931] Yes, and he had the long hair that day which the guy grabbed his hair.

[932] It doesn't look like his hair is that long.

[933] Oh, no, he's a ponytail there.

[934] Really?

[935] Yeah.

[936] I knew he had a ponytail from a lot of, oh, see, now you see Hickson mounting him.

[937] Oh, no, he got tired of punching the guy, we felt.

[938] And so this is how it ended him punching him?

[939] Yeah, there we go, and the guy tap and stop, please.

[940] stop and he has a group of guys with him.

[941] We want to make sure that nobody jump in his back.

[942] Wow.

[943] And, but the thing is we have this and don't get me wrong, I'm not telling people to go and do that.

[944] But in that time, in that generation, a lot of those fights that happened on the street was a need for Jiu -Zitsu to be established the way should be.

[945] And it was better than two guys fighting there than that fight ended up in a bar and a night club, a gang -fight people shooting each other.

[946] And I remember Hickson said, we get together in our first original Gracie Bar High School there.

[947] Some members of other Jujit schools and say, look, guys, Hicks are going to go there, going to make a circle, only him and the guy fight.

[948] Nobody else fight.

[949] You understand that?

[950] Because if everybody fights, then somebody's going to get really hurt because you're not going to be able to control anything.

[951] We just made a big circle.

[952] We hold hands.

[953] Regardless of what happened, we're not interfere.

[954] it's Hickson and that guy and that's it but want to make sure nobody jumps in then I remember he said you got to watch my back and I go like okay, got to watch his act don't do nothing, got to watch my back and here we are I'm always behind him and getting punched getting kicked from other people but the crazy thing was that happened and Hickson on his mind said look I'm going to go there slap him on the face and he's going to run then we're like okay he goes there slapped that guy and the guy did not run Then we go, oh, shit.

[955] Now, game on.

[956] Then we hold each other, and I think this happened on Saturday.

[957] Tuesday night, Hugo went to Hickson School with a lot of people.

[958] They are all carrying weapons.

[959] Hickson wasn't there, and they called.

[960] He shows up in shorts.

[961] And he quickly just slept Hugo around.

[962] Somebody called the police later on, and they even shoot.

[963] ceiling, AR -15, whatever, just boom, and they left, but then was Hickson just smash him quick because it was on the cement, not on the sand.

[964] But that again happened in a way for us as a pride to prove the point, jiu -jitsu is the best style of martial arts.

[965] We keep going strong.

[966] And Hugo was a Lutu -Livre guy.

[967] Hugo was a Lutu -Livir guy.

[968] Very respected, real strong.

[969] One of the best guys still today.

[970] And they had a grappling style.

[971] It just wasn't as comprehensive.

[972] Back there, they were doing a lot of footlocks already.

[973] Yeah, the ones that are doing a lot of footlocks, Nogi, a lot of hill hooks.

[974] Yeah.

[975] And they have some quality fighters among of them, definitely.

[976] Eugenio Tideo?

[977] Eugenio Tadio, and they have, I end up fighting one of the guys from there and one of the Abu Dhabis there.

[978] But as the time goes by, I think people get older, can understand.

[979] And I don't think today has any conflict or any.

[980] bad feelings.

[981] And they must have adopted a lot of the Jiu -Jitsu techniques too.

[982] Everything was Jiu -Jitsu.

[983] You should take the gear out.

[984] Right.

[985] Today I'm training grappling.

[986] Okay, what is the definition of grappling?

[987] The underground fighting then it's Jiu -Jitsu.

[988] What do you think about this new trend that you're seeing?

[989] Like, you saw it particularly coming out of John Donahur and Dean Lister with leg locks.

[990] Like, leg locks are so big in Jiu -Jitsu competition now.

[991] When we learn Jiu -Jitsu and still today, we would not learn anything related to legs until we get our blue belt.

[992] The main reason behind these were to be able to let you develop guard without concern anything.

[993] Just learn how to move your hips in sweeps and hooks.

[994] Footlock is something very effective.

[995] But if I show you right away, I might be stopping some of the evolution of your game.

[996] game or the other person that you train with that he can learn which will make even better his footlock right that's why we hold back until people get up one year two into jiu jitzo to learn leg locks but today we have the no ghi everybody's such in a hurry that a lot of no ghi schools the first thing people want to learn hey i want to learn heel hook and jiu jihito with ghi i want to learn ambar right the no ghi wants to go straight to the leg they give people won't go straight to the arm.

[997] But I think particularly because of the success of these leg lockers against high -level competition.

[998] No, it's effective.

[999] It's amazing.

[1000] I think it's a portion of the game, you know, and you will see the development of people that will have defending that, which also will force guys to pass also beyond the legs only.

[1001] But definitely, they work.

[1002] It's very dangerous.

[1003] Let people wrap their legs around your leg, hook you there.

[1004] I mean, not everybody can get out of that.

[1005] And if you don't tap, you're going to get your knee ripped apart.

[1006] For sure.

[1007] And that's the real problem with leg locks is that so many guys wind up with pretty devastating knee injuries.

[1008] In the 80s, the decision not to have hill hooks in Jiu -Jitsu was for safety.

[1009] We do, we did practice, but the competition does not allow.

[1010] You got to understand in the 80s, if you have a knee problem, your career is over.

[1011] There's no surgery that really would fix it correctly.

[1012] Today is different.

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] You understand?

[1015] It's the evolution of the medical side make possible for you to put a brand new knee over there.

[1016] Yeah, but still to this day, meniscus tears and cartilage tears, those are still huge.

[1017] I mean, without stem cells, it's very, very difficult to fix those unless you get the meniscus, like I had part of my meniscus removed on my left knee.

[1018] And then you see, I mean, you want to train for longevity, And you're going to understand, too, is I think some of those things should be kind of almost creating a pro league into the Jiu -Jitsu world.

[1019] Because a lot of people, they get hurt before even they learn what Jiu -Zitsu is.

[1020] That's why my only concern is the danger of all those hill hooks, leg locks.

[1021] Because if you get somebody who knows, he might tap or he might roll to the right side, even though a lot of, guys to get hurt.

[1022] But if you hold somebody who doesn't have much experience in one of those traps, it's for sure, injury.

[1023] They roll the wrong way and rip it apart themselves.

[1024] Even if you don't squeeze, it's because they don't know what you do.

[1025] Right.

[1026] And that's my view of as an instructor today on my school.

[1027] You're not ready for legs yet.

[1028] Right.

[1029] Oh, I go to the Noggi tournament yet.

[1030] You have to learn first, you understand, for your own safety.

[1031] And also I want them to develop guard Because when we get tired, we pull guard When you get tired, you lie down to sleep.

[1032] You don't sleep standing.

[1033] You sleep when you lie down, and jiu -jitsu is the same thing.

[1034] You get tired, you're going to pull guard.

[1035] And that's one of the ways I see some of my students in the tournament.

[1036] They get tired.

[1037] He's a top guy.

[1038] Suddenly he starts pulling guard.

[1039] I mean, he's tired.

[1040] He's already, and that's why you have to have a good guard just to survive and rest to be able to continue.

[1041] Were you surprised, though, that this No -Gi leg -lock games started taking off the way it did?

[1042] I think because of the success, we have so many guys doing extremely well, and some of the guys that come from the No -Gi originally doing so well, now some of the guys that come from the Gea world doing No -Gi, they've been finding some challenges to adjust to that leg.

[1043] I think in a way You have two ways that Simplify Because if you get somebody In a foot lock or leg lock There we go And at the same time You complicate Because you see a lot of scramble now And a lot of injuries Yeah Because every day I understand People don't want to tap And it's a position that Something is going to get hurt Yeah But I'm Is that development And the evolution Of the grappling world and I think it's amazing sooner or later somebody's going to find ways to protect better and better and better and better that will force people to move on well you've seen that I think now with a lot of the leg lock guys against each other they're kind of stalemate and you see them winning by rear naked choke or arm bar again they're not using their leg locks against each other they realize like man he knows as much as I do now I need more than that yeah they're using them to sweep or they're using them to set up other things They're trying to exploit other holes.

[1044] Like maybe they concentrate too much on leg locks so then they're open to arm bars or chokes.

[1045] I remember when I learned in the beginning we have footlock as the last resource.

[1046] Let's see.

[1047] I'm fighting that guy and, man, I'm not able to submit him.

[1048] We're going to footlock him.

[1049] That's how we used to have on the 80s.

[1050] Yeah, it was like a Hail Mary.

[1051] The footlock is, okay, this is my deadly weapon.

[1052] If everything that I do is not working, I'm going to footlock him.

[1053] Today is the opposite.

[1054] My first shot is footlock him all the way.

[1055] It's not working.

[1056] I'm going to choke him.

[1057] You see so few footlocks in MMA.

[1058] It's interesting, right?

[1059] You see, like, so few figure four footlocks.

[1060] Because the danger also for you to get hit.

[1061] Right.

[1062] Yeah.

[1063] Sometimes when you do the footlock, your face, your arms are both around the leg, you can get a knock on.

[1064] Exactly.

[1065] What do you think about combat jiu -jitsu, Eddie's new invention?

[1066] man i think it's a way for people to step up to reality and understand and some guys make a decision do know what i might be able to go and do mMA too but that's a real world yeah if you fight somebody that's exactly what's going to happen right and making people more aware of okay my jiu jiu jitsu for jiu jiu jitsu only is not going to work their well for this kind of a jiu jiu jitsu i have now to be aware of more more of my real fight.

[1067] And I think it will help more the evolution of that sport of Jiu -Zitsu to transition to MMA.

[1068] For people don't know what combat jiu -jitsu is, Eddie Bravo invented a way where you do jiu -jitsu with slaps on the ground.

[1069] And you would think it's just, oh, it's just a slap.

[1070] But no, a palm strike, really.

[1071] I mean, you really can hit someone very, very hard with your palms.

[1072] I mean, I can do that with my hand on a table and it doesn't hurt my hand at all.

[1073] But if I did that with my knuckles, it would really hurt.

[1074] So they can smack the shit out of each other We used to do that after We train Jiu -Jitsu in Portuguese Taparia It's like a slap each other after the train No shirts, yes And we used to train like that in Brazil Oh really?

[1075] Yes, to be ready Again, we have no tournaments Right I mean after the train Let's see And we stand in front of each other And open hands and there we go Slap each other Make sure don't get slap on the face But on the end the train you have marks all over your body and you still shake your brothers in there love you but you're all over mess are you still uh do you still lift weights yes i do how often you do that two days a week two days a week but i but i like to run a lot i like outdoors yeah i run three four days a week yeah usually what you're running trails i did try my house now's too hot i don't know unless you go early in the morning yeah i go like eight in the morning very hot even eight in the morning it was It was hot this morning when I went.

[1076] Boy, it's very hot right now, but I like it.

[1077] I think I want to challenge my body always to bring the best off, the resistance.

[1078] Because I think I don't like to go and run the same street over and over again.

[1079] Somehow your body is ready to get out just to that.

[1080] Right.

[1081] I'm always trying to find different trails.

[1082] Yes.

[1083] This way is I going to fight.

[1084] You'll change is up and down the whole time.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] But it's something to The Jiu -Jitsu is my excuse to do all of this I want to go and do better All my students are getting harder How can I switch that to make not that hard?

[1087] Right I got to do a little bit more Than I was doing Now how do you mix up your weightlifting training With your Jiu -Jitsu training Do you do it in the morning And then train at night Or do you do it after you train Right now I'm doing Before teaching to the train my intention is when I show up to the academy I'm already tired physically so that when you do train you can be relaxed and just this way my challenge is because I'm physically tired I make the level of my students higher because they have a lot of energy and they're good too it makes more challenge for myself to train with them because I don't have okay I'm my energy no I have to purely use the techniques they Jiu -Jitsu, the techniques must be on time.

[1088] I intentionally do that.

[1089] They're tired to make a good training for me. And that's what I've been doing.

[1090] I show up and they don't know.

[1091] And hey, let's go and train.

[1092] Then I can tell us like, man, I should rest before train this guy today.

[1093] I don't know if he's getting that good and too tired.

[1094] Everything's at the same time.

[1095] Next week I'm not going to do that again.

[1096] So when you do it twice a week, how do you mix it up?

[1097] Like what kind of training you doing?

[1098] I work one day legs, I lower upper body, and it's not the day upper body.

[1099] That's it?

[1100] Always, yes.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] So it's just to make you stronger.

[1103] Just to keep the joints healthy and evidently, feel the muscles.

[1104] I think it's important for, it's like prevent injuries.

[1105] Yes.

[1106] That's the main thing.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] And I've been using a lot of the iron neck stuff.

[1109] Remember the guy from the iron neck?

[1110] He sent it to me the equipment.

[1111] I'm using that.

[1112] It's amazing.

[1113] I've been using that.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] It is.

[1116] I recommend any jujitsu guys.

[1117] Oh, for jujitsu guys, it's a must -do.

[1118] Go and get it, man. It's incredible.

[1119] Well, you said something to me once.

[1120] I never forget it.

[1121] I go, never trust your neck.

[1122] I still do not.

[1123] We fall out of the strong.

[1124] As you get to the neck, you have to be very aware.

[1125] Start seeing little flashes after that gets dark.

[1126] Oh, yeah.

[1127] There we go.

[1128] You're saying a little, oh, I'm dizzy.

[1129] No, you're about to go out, my friend.

[1130] Don't trust your neck Never trust your neck Yeah But at least that you could Train it safely now With the iron neck There was always a bunch of different ways Where people trained That were questionable Like there's a lot of people That don't believe in neck bridges They said it's actually kind of dangerous Man our neck is If you see the spine It's so sensitive You gotta be careful when you work your neck In Jiu -Jit We don't use our head on the ground To base our body weight And I think that our neck is the maintenance of having your neck all well around because that spinning thing that you do man you work every angle of your neck yeah and i do a very simple exercise i have this a touch into a bar and go forward and turn sideways very smooth movement do you do the ray charles with the stevie wonder rather very slow you have that bungee that keeps more or less tension yes yeah turn it sideways i love that machine or that that piece of It was a great addition to all the exercise.

[1131] Thanks to the guys, because it's really, really helpful.

[1132] Yeah, I recommend it to everybody.

[1133] It's just, and for fighters that get hit in the head, it's so important to have a strong neck to resist the impact.

[1134] It's the same thing.

[1135] We'll build up muscles around.

[1136] This way the muscles take the first hit.

[1137] Right.

[1138] Just like you're talking about building strength around your joints by lifting weights and protecting joints.

[1139] Exactly the same thing.

[1140] Exactly.

[1141] So are you doing like basic stuff, like curls and dips?

[1142] And very basic Different than the time That you're training for competition Which is Inher, a lot of explosions And this way Just trying to maintain And everything else I do in Jiu -Zitsu Some days I train Pushing more Some days I'm pushing less Some days I just training defense Some days I'm training Okay, I got to finish everybody today Or I got to mount everybody today You kind of make your training A goal for your training This way you're always excited to do it Right You know, and not having the same thing every day.

[1143] No, I select, okay, today I'm going to sweep everybody.

[1144] Then I pull guard and keep playing, I got to, my goal is sweep.

[1145] And some guys are very hard to sweep.

[1146] Another day, I just want to mount.

[1147] I can only finish people from the mouth.

[1148] And that means you kind of make different goals, and I think that keeps you.

[1149] And again, my students, there, jiu -jit is fun.

[1150] Yeah, sure.

[1151] It's fun.

[1152] You never know what's going to happen.

[1153] Right.

[1154] It was a challenge You go, it was like, oh man Then you realize I should sleep two hours extra I'm tired now For sure If you really want to find out Where your body's at Go train Oh man, why I'm so sore I don't know And Jujitsu will test you In every level Now what about nutrition I grew up Did you follow the Gracie diet?

[1155] I grew up doing the Gracie diet With my uncle Carlos Could you explain that Basically man The diet would be The food that you combine.

[1156] Right.

[1157] Some foods, when you make their combination, you're not going to get what you're expecting from the food.

[1158] And that's how we learn.

[1159] I eat a lot of fruits.

[1160] Lots.

[1161] I don't drink juices anywhere.

[1162] I make my own juice.

[1163] That's the only way you can have a proof that is actual fresh and juice.

[1164] Right.

[1165] And if you then very rarely, I eat meat, fish and chicken and turkey more often than red meat I don't remember last time it's been a while but it's basically fruits is my I love it papaya in the morning cream cheese and honey late at night sometimes watermelon juice and tapioca I don't know if people know what tapioca is yeah tapioca pudding yeah not the pudding you make looks like a tortilla you make that in a pan and it's really healthy.

[1166] Yeah, I was sure how to do.

[1167] Yeah, it's like a powder.

[1168] It's like a root, and they shred the root.

[1169] And you put in a pan, and as the pain gets hit, it looks like a tortilla on the end.

[1170] Then you put a cream cheese, and it's a thousand times healthier than any kind of bread you eat in your life.

[1171] I mean, things that are good for your body.

[1172] But basically, fruits are my main thing.

[1173] you're always burning off so much energy.

[1174] That's the other thing.

[1175] Jiu -Jitsu burns off so much energy.

[1176] And evidently, the lifestyle you have, you burn more than you eat, you're going to keep your weight for.

[1177] I wait the same thing for the past 10 years, the same weight.

[1178] Go up two pounds, go down two pounds.

[1179] Go up three pounds, go down five pounds.

[1180] Do you take any supplements?

[1181] I take macar, turmeric, ponderer, I mix, and all those juice that I make.

[1182] I'm more like preventive things.

[1183] and evidently learn Sometimes I'm going to train harder tomorrow I'm going to eat some carbs today The carbs will become A lot of energy tomorrow, my training And you're basically little things that you learn But for me the main thing is to stay healthy Right There we go I don't remember last time I was sick Really?

[1184] I don't remember last time Wow People have headaches Why have a headache?

[1185] We have many ways I have a headache You're not drinking off water Or you need too much sugar They mean, something that you're consuming right now gives you headache.

[1186] Now, what about post -workout recovery?

[1187] Do you use sauna or ice bath or anything like that?

[1188] Man, the sound is a must.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] I mean, I love it.

[1191] I see you put a lot of things.

[1192] It's a must.

[1193] So, good for you.

[1194] You eliminate so much, and your body's always pure and clean.

[1195] I love my apps on South jacuzzi.

[1196] Sit there for, I don't know, an hour and just forget about life.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] She was brand new after.

[1199] I mean, you have a lot of things that we should do us to keep the longevity of us be able to do what we want to do.

[1200] And stay healthy.

[1201] It's a main thing.

[1202] Stay hiking, stay close to nature, breathe, trying to breathe a good air.

[1203] It's pretty hard in L .A., but you go up in the mountains, man. You feel like, oh, it's even on your mind.

[1204] You already changed the whole thing of a. And that's basically Stay healthy How can I teach Or tell my student to do something If I'm not doing Right It's like you go to the gym We have two different coaches One that looks healthy And the one that is It's pretty big Which one you're going to pick Right The one that knows how to get The way he is Yeah when you see guys That start letting themselves go And getting big and fat And it's like It's very disappointing Yes it is I give a hard time To a lot of People that I know, friends, that let it go, say, man, it's not what you say, is what you've been doing.

[1205] You know, you tell, oh, don't do this.

[1206] Then you're doing.

[1207] Right.

[1208] I mean, what kind of, it's more about an example.

[1209] People get tired.

[1210] They get lazy.

[1211] Yes, but, man, you chose the wrong job to be lazy.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] You know, you're a martial artist.

[1214] You can't be lazy as a martial artist.

[1215] Right.

[1216] You know, do something to sit in the desk and don't do nothing.

[1217] And then that's, I understand.

[1218] But you're doing a martial arts and you get lazy?

[1219] No, you can't.

[1220] You become, in a way, an example for a lot of people.

[1221] And that's why you make people do what you do.

[1222] Yeah, there's no, it's not an option.

[1223] It's not an option to become lazy.

[1224] Not at all.

[1225] And as soon as I see someone who is doing that, who becomes lazy and becomes fat, I just, it's unfortunate.

[1226] You know, it's unfortunate.

[1227] You're making a mistake.

[1228] I try, I try to understand.

[1229] And sometimes I, I, I don't.

[1230] I said, look, man, again, you chose the wrong line of work.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] I mean, you're telling me that you don't like what you do.

[1233] Because if you like what you do, you're not going to be the way you are right now.

[1234] And it's jiu -jitsu is not working for you now, which should be working right now more than ever.

[1235] Well, that's one of the great things about you, my brothers.

[1236] You've always been a great example.

[1237] And you've always been a person who leads by example.

[1238] By the way, the things you say, but more importantly by the things you do.

[1239] For sure.

[1240] And I know that a lot of, and I think we learned through the years that what you say and what you do will affect a lot of people out there.

[1241] And especially now in the social media, I get so many great inputs for people that I have no idea who they are.

[1242] Like, oh, thank you for this, thank you for this, thank you for that.

[1243] Thank you for you to put a good quote out there.

[1244] I think those little things have an impact in hours in a lot of people.

[1245] And I can't forget that.

[1246] Amen, I love what I do I never had a job Do you have a work?

[1247] I train jujitsu And the amazing things They give me money to do jujitsu They pay me to do this Like I can't be Thank you then You never had it You have a great life You make friends every day Yeah You make friends every day And you kind of are able Now to help people just with something that you say sometimes I have a higher belt students or even lower belt students that show up for training and I learned that with one story my uncle told me Uncle Carlos he used to live there and back in those days he observes a lot of things and he has a it was a time that in Brazil have a lot of cockfighters and he has his regular rooster then he said man I'm going to make him money if his rooster I say okay I'm going to see how long the rooster actually fights and when I noticed the time how long he fights every time he's fighting I'm going to get the real the cockfighter and start moving him out and the rooster think he's winning and he's been doing that for a while then he realized the rooster can only stay in a fight for two minutes After two minutes he run Then he goes to arena And challenge anybody there With his rooster It's not made for a fight To fight anyone there for one minute And they bet the money And for one minute The rooster get bit up But fought for one minute Did not run Then one minute Oh he got his rooster Hey give me the fight He said no I said one minute The point was I have guys that come to my school And they're not having a good day and I can tell that by looking to their face and I'm starting with them and I let them give me a hard time and I go like man what's wrong with you today you kick my butt today and I can see the change that made on that person and I use that to train a lot of my students I'll give one example of our friend Eddie when he was before he fights Hoyler when he called me in He wasn't in the best of his game and I know he could be amazing on the beginning I prohibit anybody to give him a hard time or anything as he started building up then towards the end I said man kick his butt he was so good and confident after a few months nobody could even get close to do nothing to him said man you're ready you're ready for a fight but on the beginning this was my way to work out his psychological to build him up he wasn't in the best shape he wasn't trained he said no you can't train if your students everybody does what you do you're going to fight somebody who doesn't do what you do you're going to train of people that do what the other guy do and here we are in three months we made him a monster and he did what he did in his fight we're using the same idea of my uncle telling me a story to make you start believing and towards the end I thought the guy's man get him nobody could get even close Isn't it funny how much of it is psychological?

[1248] Because when you are tired, but you start doing well, all of a sudden you have energy.

[1249] It's all in your mind.

[1250] And one of the things, I try to remember who said that.

[1251] We grew up in the fighting world.

[1252] I always seen samurai, Bushido, and the war, and we have a lot of good quotes.

[1253] And one of them was, whenever you think you're tired, your opponent is dead.

[1254] I always remember that.

[1255] Until today, I remember it's a yellow belt.

[1256] One of my cousins told me that, man, when you're tired, your opponent is dead.

[1257] That keeps you going.

[1258] Your opponent is dead?

[1259] He's dead.

[1260] He's way more tired than you are.

[1261] That's the time we have to push.

[1262] Instead of trying to conserve?

[1263] No, now push.

[1264] But what if you're tired and he's not?

[1265] This is the mindset.

[1266] Then Jujitsu gives you the tools but makes you never give up.

[1267] You can be tired.

[1268] We're all going to be tired in a fight.

[1269] That's for sure.

[1270] but you're not going to give up.

[1271] How important do you think it is to do additional conditioning other than just taking classes?

[1272] If you want to go and participate in an event, a tournament, training the jiu -jitsu train today, you're going to do well.

[1273] If you want to win the tournament, then you have to do more.

[1274] You have to work out.

[1275] You have to do your physical because that all involves with your mindset.

[1276] A lot of people, they get nervous.

[1277] because they feel they're not ready.

[1278] Do you ever think that you'll have a jiu -jitsu school that also has weights and cardio equipment and things like that and maybe even classes to help supplement jiu -jitsu training?

[1279] I think it will be a dream school, for sure, because a lot of people do not realize how beneficial there would be for them in general, not only for jih Tzu, because I keep telling people and always put them in their minds for them to get better and believe in themselves.

[1280] But when they do, those things are challenged themselves.

[1281] If you challenge yourself every day, you're going to bring the best of you every day.

[1282] If you do the same thing every day, you already know what's going to happen.

[1283] But whenever you challenge yourself, you're going to bring something better and better.

[1284] You're going to grow more inside.

[1285] You're going to start believing so much more the capability that you have.

[1286] That would be a dream school.

[1287] I don't know any school that has like a real comprehensive gym, strength, conditioning gym, Attached to a jiu -jitsu school?

[1288] Jiu -Jitsu school, I don't know any.

[1289] Martial art, MMA places do.

[1290] MMA places, yeah, like all those big gyms.

[1291] Yeah.

[1292] But a lot of things, like sometimes someone may ask me and my thought about was this.

[1293] When you go to a MMA gym, and I think today the specific for MMA, they train enough grappling for MMA, they train enough punching for MMA, which is amazing.

[1294] But it's like you're going to a hospital.

[1295] You go there, you have a general doctor.

[1296] But if you need a specialist, I've got to go to the school that is specific for that purpose.

[1297] Striking or Jiu -Jitsu, even though now the biggest ones, gyms out there, they have the best instructors of anything altogether.

[1298] Right, like American Top Team, right?

[1299] They have, yeah.

[1300] Ricardo Laboreo.

[1301] I mean, they have the best.

[1302] grappling coach you could have the wrestling but not all the schools are like that right that's a rare one but it's it's very challenged because of sometimes the ego among the instructors sure who the fight is going to listen to right you get a lot of jiu -suitz fighters and start training with a striking coach and the striking coach has them convinced that they're a striker and i think the biggest challenge for the m -ma guys is when is the right time for me to transition from standing to the ground or the ground to standing.

[1303] And that's the ones that find the right momentum to do that, they're the ones that are winning.

[1304] And I know my uncle Hillis said, man, sooner or later they're going to get you a number.

[1305] I mean, that's the middle world.

[1306] Very hard for you to retire without, and when is the right time to retire.

[1307] Right.

[1308] Yeah, it's hard to figure out for many, many fighters.

[1309] No, it's a lot of the things.

[1310] Maybe money issues or maybe I don't want.

[1311] want to give up being famous or maybe it's a lot of things involved I should retire like no well we've been around for a long time and we've seen a lot of fighters fight long past where they should have retired that's when they can get hurt really bad yeah and you see that's when the the injury can be resting be with him for a very long time yeah does it bother you when you see that like particularly like older fighters getting knocked out man for me I think the people surround them should be say, hey, enough is enough, you know, and I hope all of them, and I think the way it is today is everyone is able to make good for their life, would say enough money that they can live well.

[1312] Not all of them, unfortunately.

[1313] That's why they have to keep fighting as much as they can.

[1314] But it's a very challenge.

[1315] I think we have to understand it's a short career.

[1316] You don't have 20 years fighting.

[1317] You have to understand is my body can take this much but after a certain point man then you can get hurt really bad um just so everybody knows on the wall the studio right there that's john jock machado's coral belt right there on that wall in the studio that's really cool man you gave me that i only made i only made 10 of those one of them's right there my brother i know poor i got to be for a special person Joe Hoga, man. That's awesome.

[1318] Well, thank you for everything, man. Thank you for teaching me Jiu -Jitsu.

[1319] Thank you for being such a great leader and a role model.

[1320] And just thanks for being here, brother.

[1321] I really appreciate you.

[1322] Well, Super Joe.

[1323] Thank you for having me here.

[1324] And now I can, people don't keep asking, hey, why don't you go to see Joe Hogan?

[1325] I see Jiu Hogan.

[1326] I see Jiu Hoga at the time, and I think it was a great pleasure for me to be here.

[1327] Amazing to see the transformation.

[1328] and I think in the mixed martial wars world in the martial arts world how important was to have someone like you that knows what you're talking about because I remember the first few days of UFC please UFC understand Joe Hogan was much bigger than UFC and I think UFC reach out to a point like that to have someone like you pushing and you have so many people that loves you that follows you and UFC was is you're the voice of UFC you know and don't get me wrong those guys out there but uh when you're talking and you have all those main fights there is very different than when you see the other guys talking about because i know the involvement that you have in a martial arts and the knowledge that you have and it's really good to be here man in all this past 20 years see the amazing journey to follow you see you getting bigger and bigger and be able to to see that from the beginning is amazing well thank you and i promise i'll be training soon As soon as his knee feels better, I'll be back.

[1329] And in Tarzanah, that's your main school.

[1330] The Malibu one, unfortunately, was affected by the fires.

[1331] But Jay is now teaching somewhere else in the valley, right?

[1332] Where is he teaching?

[1333] I think we have a lot of affiliations.

[1334] Right.

[1335] We have one in Chatswood.

[1336] We have one in Simiwai.

[1337] He goes there on Fridays.

[1338] Yeah, it's the Kings.

[1339] I'll have the one in Simmel.

[1340] Yes.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] And your gym, the Machado Jiu -Jitsu Academy, is in Tarzana and you could find it online.

[1343] Yeah, we've been there for 27 years and now we're probably going to be moving around the area for something that we need more space.

[1344] Unfortunately and fortunate the same time.

[1345] Fortunately.

[1346] Blowing up.

[1347] Wait until after this podcast.

[1348] We see it, yeah.

[1349] That's going to be even more fucking crazy.

[1350] Anything that comes out of your hook gets a lot bigger for sure.

[1351] Well, listen, you have the best fucking school I've ever been to in the world and it's a beautiful environment, it's a brotherhood and a sisterhood, and that's one of the best things about it is how much it is like family over there.

[1352] It's like everyone who trains with you has the utmost respect for you, and the way you are and the way you treat people, it rubs off on everybody.

[1353] You really genuinely do make people a better person.

[1354] Thank you, sir, and I'll see you back soon on the mat.

[1355] All right, my brother.

[1356] Thank you.

[1357] Thank you, Joe.

[1358] Bye, everybody.

[1359] Thank you.