#1581 - J. Prince

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, checking out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] Mr. Prince.

[4] Yeah.

[5] Thanks for being here, brother.

[6] I appreciate it.

[7] Hey, it's a privilege and honor.

[8] Listen, man, you command a tremendous amount of respect.

[9] The more people I talk to you, the more the respect grows.

[10] More people I talk about you, rather.

[11] It's a pleasure to meet.

[12] You're a pleasure to be with you.

[13] Likewise, bro.

[14] Josh Dubin loves you, too.

[15] Oh, yeah, the feeling is mutual.

[16] Yeah, I love that dude.

[17] Yeah, me too.

[18] He's a good man, and the stuff that he does on the side, you know, outside of boxing and the stuff that he does with the Innocence Project is really amazing.

[19] Yeah, yeah, he's an awesome friend to have as well.

[20] Yeah.

[21] So we got a lot of shit here, man. We got your loyalty brand.

[22] You've got champagne.

[23] You've got wine.

[24] You've got, what was this?

[25] Esther Merlo.

[26] This is Merlot.

[27] And you have a cabernet as well.

[28] and rosé i love a man that's involved in a lot of different things well i'm just trying to diversify my portfolio but that's always been the case with you right yeah pretty much though from the beginning yeah you are responsible for a tremendous amount of the music that i listened to especially when i was a young man like you put together the ghetto boys willie d was on here and he explained the whole story to us that you're the one who talked him into being into the ghetto boys like he was like no I want to be on my own he did it as a favor to you yeah that's a true story that's a true story I actually had got rid of the other set of ghetto boys because they felt like I was too deep and they couldn't relate to some of the subject matters I wanted them to write to like what kind of subject matter well just real real life situations you know what I mean like real street things that I was living and they were specifically bit more tonkatoi type of raps you know they was they was following the trend of the east coast at the time and i realized that we're from the south and we just had different stories like what was the stories of the east coast like what was the difference well more commercial you know back then the east coast was more commercial this was the time when run dmc l l kooj you know the hardcore rap hadn't hit the scene yet so down south we were uh considered rebellious at the time because we came with a different flavor you know we came uh with ghetto stories that's one of the reason i named the group the ghetto boys because i knew it was ghettos all around the world that uh had a voice and we became their voice well it was also there were songs that they they were very unconventional like mine's playing tricks on me like that's an unconventional song like and it shows like a vulnerability yeah Like talking about the pressure of that life really fucking you up, you know?

[29] Yeah.

[30] Yeah.

[31] Yeah.

[32] Yeah.

[33] There was a lot of that in the ghetto boys.

[34] Yeah.

[35] It was, there was a lot of layers to it.

[36] If you looked at it on the surface, you would think just gangster rap.

[37] But there was a lot of thinking behind that music.

[38] Oh, most definitely.

[39] And that was part of what we done together.

[40] We brainstormed together because we wanted to make sure we tapped into, you know, everybody that didn't have a voice.

[41] You know, a lot of the things, such as the mind playing trick song, for example, you know, it was a lot of individuals that was like norm to that lifestyle or what would actually take place of inner city kids.

[42] And we were able to make that like real visual.

[43] You, it's fascinating to me all the different things that you've touched, you know, that you've gotten into, like, first of all, how did you get started in the rap game?

[44] Like, what, what, what, got you into being part of that.

[45] I got in the rap game because of my brother.

[46] His name was Sir Rap a lot.

[47] So I actually named the company after him.

[48] And I was encouraged to do it because, you know, he was a rapper.

[49] At the time, you know, I was hustling a different way.

[50] And I didn't want my brother in the streets.

[51] So I'm like, you go in the studio.

[52] I'm going to support you in the rap world.

[53] But ultimately, my brother decided.

[54] it not to stay in the rap game and we got him like 23 years yeah there's so many stories like that right like dudes had one fit it one foot in and one foot out yeah yeah it's uh the rap game is inextricably tied to people that are are in that world right you can't you can't you can't fake it in the rap game it's one of the the rare genres of music that have so many people that are both in and out of that world.

[55] Yeah, a lot of people fake it to a certain extent, you know, because they tell stories of what they observed or what they saw.

[56] You know, a lot of individuals hadn't actually lived the rap that they rap about, but they witnessed it from some perspective, so it's real.

[57] Yeah.

[58] Yeah.

[59] But it's maybe the only music genre that is so connected to Christ.

[60] crime.

[61] If you really stop and think about it, crime and poverty is such an immense part of the rap world.

[62] Oh yeah.

[63] No, it's definitely a real reflection of what goes on in the world we come from.

[64] Yeah, that's one of the most interesting things about it, like when rap music became really popular.

[65] One of the things I was saying to Willie, when Willie D was here, I was like, you're a part of a, you're a pioneer of a new art. that came about like when the ghetto boys came about which was like late 80s is that what it was yes when the ghetto boys emerged we had only been looking at hip hop for a decade right it had only been around for 10 years I'm like you were at the ground floor of what is now one of the biggest genres in all of music and it was one of the first genres that showed that life and showed the life of these inner city hustlers that were trying to get out and trying to do better for themselves and in the case of the ghetto boys show the pros and the cons and show the psychological effects of that life no a true story and one of the things we've done like on the east coast and the west coast you know they had access to a lot of power where the major record labels were concerned down in houston in the south period we had no access to any of that kind of power So we was left to, like, figure it out and do it on our own.

[66] So when I laid the foundation in Houston, it was, I basically learned from trial and error.

[67] And I had to figure it out, and I did, and we laid a foundation that's relevant today.

[68] So you got into it to help your brother.

[69] And then how did you get a part of the ghetto boys?

[70] How did that get going?

[71] Well, I researched Houston inside out.

[72] You know, I went to, like, every area in Houston and kind of, you know, just tapped into all the artists.

[73] And I ran into Scarface one day.

[74] I stepped out of a club, and he was playing his music for a DJ by the name of Steve Funye.

[75] And I overheard it, and I was sold from what I overheard.

[76] And I basically took Scarface with me that night, we went to breakfast, and, you know, I kind of convinced him that I had a group named the ghetto boys that I wanted him to be a part of.

[77] And the same thing happened with Willie D. My barber, I think, was telling me about Willie D. We had the same barber in Fifth Ward, and I got with him and basically told him the same story.

[78] And then there was Bushwick.

[79] And Bushwick, you know, was around before either of those guys were around.

[80] But I just shared my vision with them.

[81] It was important that they embraced my vision because I just got rid of a group.

[82] group of guys that, uh, wasn't feeling me. They told me I was too deep.

[83] So after that, you know, I just, uh, made it my priority to pick these guys up every day.

[84] You know, I drove and picked them up every day to make sure they showed up in the studio.

[85] So whatever happened, one of the guys who told you you were too deep, they ever call you back and go, oh, we fucked up.

[86] Well, you know, you know, I'm, I'm thankful for two of those guys because, you know, I tell the story.

[87] all the time.

[88] These two guys were, I made a deal with them if they go to school, I would support them and rap.

[89] And they went to school and they would go to my grandmother house after school every day.

[90] And after my brother had left, I kind of lost interest in the music game.

[91] And she called me one day and she said, James, you need to keep your word.

[92] These guys going to school, they come here every day practicing.

[93] And, you know, I tell everybody, that's how I got blessed beyond my expectations.

[94] by keeping my word.

[95] Keeping your word is a theme that you discuss very often.

[96] Respect and keeping your word.

[97] True.

[98] How did you, I mean, how did this evolve for you as a man?

[99] Like when did this become of extreme importance in your life?

[100] I think it begun with my mother, you know, my father.

[101] You know, I believe more is caught than taught.

[102] So I was observing the things things of substance such as respect and things like that they they put it in me so you know I tell everybody's kind of in my DNA to a certain extent I like that phrase more is caught than taught yeah that's true real true yeah I think about that around my own kids oh yeah they're watching they observe yeah and if you slip like if I'm slipping my kids let me know oh yeah they let me know and you're like oh Jesus you're paying attention oh yeah you know you're other words your lips gonna have to match your actions yes yeah yeah yeah when children think you're a hypocrite that's a those are rough kids to raise because they don't have any respect for you true yeah so you you start out with you had Willie D you had Scarface you had Bushwick Bill and you these guys didn't necessarily know each other like Willie knew Willie knew Bushwick from the clubs but he didn't didn't wasn't tight with them right yeah it wasn't really even he didn't really even know him i think they had a run -in you know somewhat of a confrontation uh in the club but they didn't really know each other other than we i think drop kicking wishwick that sounds like really yeah and how difficult was it to get them together and get them to coordinate and get the music to go well you know it was it was somewhat difficult because everybody was solo artists and everybody wanted to do their own thing and my thing was to them okay let's unite our power let's unite our power together and we become a stronger force than being separate and you know let's do this my way and after this we'll do solos so i think that made sense to him well the way willie talks about you when willie was like i'm going to be on my own but j prince asked me to do it, so I said, all right.

[103] Like, literally that.

[104] Like, that's rare.

[105] When a guy like Willie Dee is like, okay, he respects you so much, he's willing to do that for you when he wanted to be a solo artist.

[106] Yeah, that's true.

[107] And Scarface as well, but, you know, it always been a mutual respect where we all was concerned.

[108] And, you know, it made sense.

[109] Let's unite the power.

[110] You know, that helped.

[111] It was that mentality that opened the doors for hope to hold.

[112] Houston.

[113] Like a lot of artists that they try and, you know, separate their powers.

[114] They don't understand the unity of the power is what opened a door for the city.

[115] How did you figure that out early on?

[116] I just figured it out from being a football player, a baseball player, you know, a team player.

[117] You know, it's certain ingredients that just work, you know, together versus being separate unlike boxing you know boxing you're in the ring by yourself right yeah well you that's another thing you've been involved in too which is amazing you know you you've been involved in some of the greatest fighters of all time floyd mayweather Andre ward i mean um how did you transfer from well you started off you owned like a car dealership right yeah was that your first big business uh pretty much so you know i started off uh at a car dealership all my life i had this uh love for cars and Me too.

[118] And my cousin, you know, by the name of Eric Blakely, he used to put model cars together all on his dresser.

[119] And I didn't have any model car.

[120] I couldn't really afford model cars, but I would look at those cars and be like, oh, I'm going to have a car like that one day.

[121] I'm going to have a car like, you know, envision myself in them cars.

[122] And I end up purchasing every car that I dream of being in.

[123] Did you have like a checklist?

[124] Yeah.

[125] Yeah.

[126] And so when you opened up this car dealership, did you do that with that end goal in mind?

[127] Or did you just do it as a business?

[128] I'd done it as a business.

[129] That was business.

[130] The ownership was personal.

[131] I'd done it as a business because I had relationships with all the athletes, with all the D -boys, you know, all the hustlers in the streets.

[132] So I'm like, I could make some money in the car salesman business.

[133] And my son, mother, Jazz, his mother, caller, her father was a car dealer.

[134] So everything just kind of connected.

[135] And I'm like, okay.

[136] And so did you use that to, like, as a springboard to get into the rap game?

[137] Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

[138] I became the number one car seller profit -wise on a street called Shepard Drive in Houston, Texas in one year.

[139] You know what I mean?

[140] And I couldn't believe it.

[141] We all had the same accountant and accountant, you know, doing taxi.

[142] And she came to me. She was like, you made the biggest profit out of everybody on the?

[143] I said, well, how did you know that?

[144] She said, because I'm the accountant.

[145] I'm like, wow, are you serious?

[146] Yeah, you made the biggest profit.

[147] So, you know, that was inspiring.

[148] And this was just because of your relationships with all these other people.

[149] Yeah.

[150] That they wanted to do business with you.

[151] Well, I say relationships and my work ethic, you know, because I got a relentless work ethic.

[152] So how do you get into boxing from there?

[153] You get into the rap game with, was the ghetto boys your first band?

[154] Yeah, pretty much.

[155] So the ghetto boys with my first group.

[156] When boxing came along, boxing was my first love.

[157] You know, I got distracted by the music game because of, I mean, by boxing because of the music game.

[158] I always wanted to be a boxer, but it wasn't any jubes.

[159] gyms in Fifth Ward, you know, so I always said to myself, if I ever make it, I want to build a boxing gym, a recreation center in my hood.

[160] And that's what I'd done.

[161] And shortly after I done that, I had an opportunity to go in the gym and I start watching the amateurs.

[162] And I just kind of fell in love with boxing all over again, which ultimately led me, I pray for a champion.

[163] Everything I tried to accomplished in life always exercise prayer.

[164] It worked for me. So I prayed for a champion and I set up a meeting with Mike Tyson in Las Vegas and I went to Las Vegas.

[165] This had to be 99 or 2000.

[166] So, you know, I knew a friend that knew Mike and Mike, you know, accepted the invitation because he was familiar with my movement where Rapalai was concerned.

[167] And I flew out there with my focus on Mike and man I walked into him spawning and I was like you know I was on cloud nine because I had never saw him you know in person spawning it was always at a fight and I walked in he was throwing leather with another heavyweight and I was like starstruck and in the midst of watching this spawning uh Floyd mayweather came in the gym and flawed you know I didn't know who he was he kept coming to me Yo, Jay, you Jay, man, I know, I know about your group, you know, he's calling groups out.

[168] I'm like, oh, okay, thanks, bro.

[169] Thanks, bro.

[170] I'm zeroing back in on Mike.

[171] Boom, boom, boom.

[172] Flood come over again.

[173] Yo, Jay, yo, yo, Jay, you know about this group here, man. And, Jay, if you want to do something late on, you know, this is my number, I'll come pick you up.

[174] I'm like, all right, brother, okay.

[175] Focus on Mike.

[176] I don't know who flawed is, right?

[177] So afterwards, you know, me and Mike go to his house.

[178] to have the meeting that I came to have because my objective was to become his manager to be on his management team and he and I met for a hour he got his ex -wife on the phone and you know I was pretty much convinced I was on the team after the meeting and everything took place and uh you know hung with him all night the next day uh tried to reach Mike and I couldn't reach Mike and I was left with Florida and I asked my friend I said who Who number is this number right here?

[179] He said, oh, that's Floyd Mayweather, the 130 -pound champion.

[180] So, bam, a red light went off in my head because I prayed for a champion.

[181] Long story short, me and Florida was in business together less than a week.

[182] That's crazy.

[183] You didn't even know who he was?

[184] I didn't know.

[185] No idea.

[186] That was when he was Pretty Boy Floyd.

[187] Yeah.

[188] That was before Money Mayweather.

[189] Exactly.

[190] Yeah.

[191] He had a totally different style back then, too.

[192] He was much more aggressive.

[193] went for the knockout war yeah well i think he used his legs a lot more than but if he saw the opportunity he definitely went in for the kill but you know his whole image was different before i came about well he had a lot of hand problems right like he's had several hand breaks yeah well i don't know about a break but i know uh we eventually had to get a specialist to wrap his hands because you know he would hurt him a lot yeah and do you think that affected his style because he developed a very defensive style as he got older I think that's a part of confidence I think that's a part of evolving as a fighter you know in the beginning I think Florida uses legs much more but as he evolved with experience he got comfortable you know with shoulder role and defense yeah greatest defense of all time of all time yeah I agree I had my friend Andrew Schultz on here yesterday we were talking about him we're like he might have got hit hard four times in his career which is insane 50 you know and got tagged four times which is unthinkable no he's amazing but his work ethic is amazing you know the guy got a work you know I've had opportunity to like witness a lot of fighters work ethic Andre Ward and Florida may well the work ethic is unlike any fight I ever saw yeah you don't get there without it exactly because there's so many talented people there's so many athletic people there's so many fierce dudes but to be a champion yeah you need everything you need gifts you need athletic gifts you need a sharp mind you need a passion for the technical aspects of the game but you got to have that ethic if you don't have that work ethic you don't you never keep it going you you always fall short of your expectations and without naming any names we all know those champions that could have been great but they got fat in between camps and they just never trained as hard as they should have and yeah i mean some of the all -time great suffered from it like roberto duran after he beat sugar a leonard yeah he and sugaray knew it capitalized on it and forced a quick rematch when he knew that duran was fat durand was partying and drinking and yeah a guy like floyd made with or never did that no never got out of shape man he would you know flawed was the type of fighter that would party with everybody but no drinking no smoking he sit back and watch and observe the whole movement i remember watching a video of him leaving a club in Vegas it showed him at the club hanging out with everybody leaving the club at two in the morning running oh yeah we used to do that all the time yeah regular pants on we would watch fights together and right after He was ready to run.

[194] Yo, Jay, yo, ain't nobody going to catch me slipping.

[195] The only way they can beat you is catch you out of shape.

[196] They ain't going to catch me slipping.

[197] Take off running down the strip.

[198] It's amazing.

[199] And having his brother or having his uncle Roger and having his father, you know, two world -class fighters and having grown up seeing these guys, seeing his uncle, when Roger Mayweather was a champion, he had a vicious style.

[200] He was, you know, his right hand was a thing of beauty.

[201] I mean, people forgot.

[202] Like, I was watching some Roger Mayweather fights the other day.

[203] And to have his father, a guy who, you know, gave Sugar Ray Leonard a hell of a fight.

[204] There's so much talent, so much knowledge and understanding of boxing in that family, to grow up with that.

[205] And to have that mindset like Floyd has where he's observing and watching everything, that dude just absorbed everything.

[206] Oh, yeah.

[207] And not only watching, he had to spar with Roger.

[208] so you're talking about you know having to learn how to protect yourself against the best yeah as a kid so you know he had access to a lot of power and evidently you know there's no doubt about it it benefited him in a major way it's just amazing when you see that consistent formula of work ethic that work ethic is there's no getting around it everyone who gets great at everything and maintains that greatness has to have that work ethic yeah yeah No, that's true.

[209] Even Michael Jordan explained, you know, how he exercised his work ethic, you know.

[210] I tell a lot of people your work ethic, you know, has a match your talent.

[211] Oh, Jamie brought over some glasses.

[212] Here we go.

[213] Try some of this wine out, sir.

[214] Loyity.

[215] All right.

[216] All right.

[217] Are you a Merleman or a Cabernet man?

[218] Well, I'm both of them.

[219] What do you prefer?

[220] It's up to you.

[221] Let's try some cab.

[222] All right.

[223] Which one is this?

[224] That's Merlo.

[225] Mr. Merlo.

[226] Where are you growing this stuff?

[227] In Paris, in France.

[228] Really?

[229] Yeah, I'm getting them good grapes.

[230] You got a relationship with people in Paris, too?

[231] Oh, yeah.

[232] Yeah, most definitely.

[233] I even have a heavyweight by the name of Tony Yoker, the 2016 gold medalist.

[234] It's from Paris.

[235] Really?

[236] Yeah, that's my fight as well.

[237] Is he training here in America or is he training in France?

[238] Both.

[239] Both.

[240] Yeah, he come and go.

[241] How does that work now with COVID?

[242] Is he stuck over there?

[243] Yeah, as of now, he'd been over in Paris for the last few months.

[244] So I think he'll be back in February or March.

[245] Yeah.

[246] The boxing business is a crazy business because boxers are crazy.

[247] There's no way, you know, you got all the dedication and all the, you know, hard work and intelligence and ring IQ.

[248] But you also have crazy people.

[249] Yeah, but it's no worse or no crazier than the music industry.

[250] Right, so you're prepared for it.

[251] Yeah, I'm kind of, I've been prepared, and there are two cutthroat businesses.

[252] Cheers, sir.

[253] Health, wealth, and love.

[254] Health, wealth, and love.

[255] Yeah.

[256] That's very good.

[257] Yeah.

[258] That's very good.

[259] Nice.

[260] Yeah, I'm a fan of wine.

[261] I don't know too much about it, but that's very smooth.

[262] Yeah.

[263] What part of Francis is grown?

[264] Oh, man. You know, I don't know exactly.

[265] the part but it's in France and I went through a lot of grapes to come up with this blend you know it's so you personally involved in selecting everything as well oh yeah oh yeah do you know a lot about wine do you have a background of wine or do you just know what you like well let me tell you the story how I got in the wine business you wouldn't you're not from Texas but those that are from Texas know to remember this doctor definitely in Houston by the name of Dr. Red Duke.

[266] He was a surgeon in Houston.

[267] And I heard him speak about the health benefits where wine was concerned one day.

[268] And, you know, he was talking about the how wine is good for your heart, your blood, antioxidants, you know, all of these things.

[269] And I became, you know, kind of soul where wine was concerned.

[270] And during my winding down time, I start sipping a little bit.

[271] And ultimately, that led me to Napa Valley, where I was able to go to quite a few vineyards.

[272] I was actually negotiating on purchasing a vineyard.

[273] So I got an opportunity to view things from the business perspective.

[274] And that kind of led me to where I'm at today.

[275] That's a serious baller move when you own a vineyard.

[276] Yeah.

[277] You know, that's why I don't trust the governor in California.

[278] He owns a vineyard.

[279] Like, get the fuck out of here, bro.

[280] He's supposed to be serving the people.

[281] You're not supposed to be bawling.

[282] When you own a vineyard, you're a baller.

[283] That's a baller move.

[284] You're out there sipping, cheers, like, with people.

[285] Yeah.

[286] Someone's bringing over hors d 'oeuvres.

[287] Right.

[288] You can only imagine they mixing it up a little bit.

[289] Yeah, there's definitely mixing up.

[290] That's some gangster shit.

[291] You're owning a vineyard.

[292] You know, that's what you can't trust a politician with a vineyard, right?

[293] I agree.

[294] Yeah.

[295] I don't trust them with our vineyards.

[296] Exactly.

[297] But with a vineyard, there's something.

[298] something about owning a vineyard yeah that's icing on the cake it's a it's a status symbol it's a beautiful status symbol you know my good friend Maynard he's a lead singer of the band Tool yeah he's got Caduceus vineyards he owns his own vineyard in Arizona you know and there's something about the creation of wine it's a different kind of artistic pursuit that it's art that your your taste buds take in and appreciate you know yeah I've developed a deep respect for wine I don't know much about it really unfortunately i don't have a lot of time to really learn about wine but yeah i know good wine and this is very good thank you this is delicious toast the loyalty where you just said a mouth for though the taste buds is the key west yeah yeah yeah it's an art form for your taste when you get a good glass of wine and you take that in you're like oh yeah that's good that's smooth this is this is like a great wine with a steak yeah you know what i'm saying yeah exactly Exactly.

[299] So when you met Floyd, he was the 130 -pound champion, and did you just immediately started working with him?

[300] Yeah, but it was a process, and it wasn't easy because I came into a situation where his father and his uncle was his manager, and I wasn't embraced, you know, with love, you know, because they kind of felt like I was, imposing on a situation.

[301] He had a $12 million contract on the table at the time I came in that everybody wanted him to sign.

[302] And Florida called the contract a slave contract before I came.

[303] But they blamed me for him calling the contract a slave contract.

[304] What was the provisions in the contract that he didn't like?

[305] Well, he just thought $12 million wasn't enough.

[306] You know what I mean?

[307] And And, you know, ultimately, I had to go in and do some damage control.

[308] And one of the things that I told him when, you know, when I met him, I said, if I can't make this better, I don't want to eat off of your 12 million that I already been offered to you.

[309] So I had an opportunity to have a meeting with, said Abraham, you know, at the time was the president of HBO.

[310] And I pretty much just asked the guy, you know, how could.

[311] we get around this $12 million contract.

[312] How can I make this a bigger contract?

[313] At the time, he told me about the fighter named Diego Corrales.

[314] He was like, you know, if you all would be willing to fight Diego Corrales, then this could jump up to 35 million or so if y 'all was able to beat Diego Corrales.

[315] And, you know, that was interesting to me. You know, I went home and done some due diligence on Diego Corrales at the time.

[316] And at that particular time, Diego had jumped on his ex -wife and kind of beat her up.

[317] He had charges, you know, kind of done her pretty bad, but bad to the extent where he was facing jail time.

[318] And, and I saw that and I went back to Florida.

[319] I said, Florida.

[320] I said, it's a perfect time to fight Diego Corralis.

[321] I said, I even have a a marketing tool we can whip him for every battled woman in the united states of america so he heard me out but he wasn't embracing that no no no no no no jay and he's time to do that right now no no no no so he didn't want to fight diego because of diego's skill set well you know i don't want to say flawed was scared but at the time you know everybody thought Diego could beat flawed he was like 30 and over 29 knockouts Diego was a wild man yeah Diego was he was a knockout all and he just felt like it wasn't the time I talked to him for like four hours and couldn't convince him so I decided to go home and I went home about six in the morning and I woke up about 11 in the morning with a message from him yo Jay I hired you you know as my manager and if you think I should fight him I'll fight him so it was then where you know I was celebrating because I'm like whoa we're going to get Diego so I call the people at HBO and they told me they didn't have a date they wouldn't have a date to next year or something like that and it was then I decided to use some of my record label talents you know I had to build my record company without having video without having radio you know just pulling publicity stunts so I told Florida say here's what we're going to do Lennox Lewis and David Tuel was fighting at the Mandalay Bay.

[322] I say, during the press conference, I'm here and Diego supposed to come to that fight.

[323] I say, during the press conference, we're going to surround Diego.

[324] My head of the home is to surround Diego.

[325] And I want you to come and just pushing, and we're going to stop the fight, right?

[326] It ain't going to be no free fight, but you go and get your push in on them.

[327] We're going to stop it.

[328] We're going to steal the show.

[329] That was my objective.

[330] and that came to fruition.

[331] You know, we went and stole a show at the press conference.

[332] That was Saturday night.

[333] Sunday, we was on the front page of the Las Vegas time.

[334] And, you know, Monday or Tuesday, I called them and they say, oh, we got a date for you.

[335] I love that you're telling me this because I always wonder.

[336] I always wonder when I see those kind of altercations.

[337] How many of those are coordinated by a wise man who understands publicity?

[338] Quite a few, I would say.

[339] Why wouldn't you?

[340] Why wouldn't you?

[341] You know, it's marketing.

[342] Which, you know, brings me to one thing.

[343] One of the things that's going on right now with Floyd is he's going to fight Logan Paul, who's this YouTube star, which is it's so crazy that a dude who is a YouTube star who's a good athlete.

[344] He's, you know, he's had a couple of boxing matches and was a very good wrestler.

[345] Yeah.

[346] He's going to box the greatest boxer.

[347] arguably of all time.

[348] I mean, if you want to look at accomplishments, Floyd Mayweather is in the argument as the greatest of all time.

[349] Boxing is a sport of being hit, or hitting rather, and not being hit.

[350] Floyd is the very best ever at that.

[351] No one's ever stopped him.

[352] No one's ever even come close.

[353] I mean, it's amazing.

[354] What he's done is amazing.

[355] And a lot of people say, oh, he waited until Manny Pachial was past his prime before he fought him.

[356] well that's a smart thing to do if you want to stay 50 and oh I mean if you look at his career he fought all the great fighters but he did it on his terms when he fought Canello made Canello get down like what was it like 152 I think it was yeah like he's every move he does is perfectly calculated oh yeah yeah you have to you know you just can't make excuses where flawed talent is concerned he he wanted of the best I ever saw do it.

[357] Undeniable.

[358] No one, whether, whatever your opinion of him is, undeniable, how talented he is.

[359] Undeniable.

[360] No, I mean, he went in and demolished Diego Corrales.

[361] Yes.

[362] But I fell in love with Diego Corrales heart afterwards.

[363] So Diego ended up going to jail and doing like a year or two prison time.

[364] And I went in prison and signed Diego Corrales.

[365] You know, I signed him in jail.

[366] Did you really?

[367] Yeah.

[368] Yeah.

[369] I got the blessings from Florida.

[370] I said, Floyd, you have a problem with me working with Diego?

[371] He's like, no, no, he's good.

[372] He ain't nobody, just because I've done him like that, don't mean nobody else could do him like that.

[373] What was that one wild fight he had where he came close to getting stopped and he stopped the dude?

[374] Oh, yeah.

[375] It was one of the fights that made him.

[376] Oh, man. Do you remember who his opponent was?

[377] Oh, boy.

[378] That's the guy that they thought beat Floyd.

[379] You know, everybody said he beat Floyd the first fight.

[380] Floyd fought him Castillo.

[381] yes yes stillio you know they claim castillo beat florid the first time and florid fought them again and demolished him yeah but that fight was that was the best fight i ever saw in my life with him and diego what a fight crazy crazy and i tell you what was yeah i tell you what was really strange about that so a couple years after that on the same day Diego got killed almost around the same time you know right on the next street behind my lost Vegas place.

[382] And I was called and, you know, his wife was like, somebody to say Diego had a motorcycle accident.

[383] So I rushed on Fort Apache and that Diego was on the same exact day, you know, of his biggest victory a couple years later the same day.

[384] Yeah.

[385] That was a bummer when he died because there's a lot of those dudes like that that are just wild dudes and you can't stop him from being wild to have a career like he had to make the kind of money that he had and still be just going crazy on motorcycles that what makes them great sometimes does them in is that that heart that courage and the the willingness to face fear yeah some guys get addicted to that they just they get addicted to that feeling of just you know it's dangerous you know you shouldn't be doing it and you just you can't help yourself you gun it yeah yeah yeah And there's something about the motorcycles that make you want to gun them.

[386] Oh, they're so thrilling.

[387] The high speed, you know.

[388] I have to watch myself on the bikes.

[389] I'm like, man. Do you still ride?

[390] Not as much as I used to, but I like the Harleys.

[391] Yeah, that's a better move.

[392] Yeah.

[393] Slower, more control.

[394] That's what I was trying to get Diego on, but he told me that's an old man bike.

[395] Well, it's got a point.

[396] I came real close to getting my motorcycle license, but when I was going through the whole thing and, you know, going through classes and three people I know, one person saw someone get hit and two people I know crashed.

[397] One crash and really fucked up his shoulder.

[398] Another one got hit by a car.

[399] Some old man ran a light and teaboned him and snapped his leg in half.

[400] And I was like, this is just too much.

[401] Yeah, I kind of witnessed like three or four accidents in one year that made me decide to slow down on the ride.

[402] I was passing on the highway and I saw this dude laying down they had a blanket over him and his bike is crashed and he's laying down he's got a blanket over him but you can see like his chest and his head he's still alive and he was just screaming in agony and I don't know what the fuck was going on under the blanket but they wanted to cover it yeah I can imagine yeah it's a terrible way to go but when you're on it it just seems like so much fun yeah it's a high yeah you know it's a high of freedom and, you know, the wind and everything.

[403] You know, it's like flying like a bird.

[404] Yeah.

[405] You know.

[406] I just went there for a minute.

[407] I know.

[408] So many fighters love them, you know.

[409] And again, it's the thing.

[410] It's like what attracts them to fighting in the first place is they're, you know, they're the type of people that face fear.

[411] They enjoy overcoming fear.

[412] They enjoy the thrill.

[413] Right.

[414] Floyd never fucked with bikes, though, did he?

[415] No. Too smart.

[416] Yeah, no, he never done that.

[417] Too smart, you know?

[418] You know, the Diego Corrales fight with Floyd was a defining fight.

[419] But, you know, one of the things that when people point to Floyd, I say, look at the Maidana fights.

[420] Because Maidona gave him some difficulty in the first fight.

[421] But then in the second fight, Floyd box his ears off.

[422] Yeah.

[423] Floyd put on a clinic in that second fight.

[424] And that shows you a guy who went back, looked at the fight, didn't enjoy his performance.

[425] It was too close and decided, I'm going to fuck this dude up in this rematch, and I'm going to do everything right this time.

[426] If you observe Florida real closely, normally the second half of all this fights, he cracked the cold where a fighter is concerned, no matter how close it was.

[427] The second half, he cracks that cold and going into that second fight.

[428] He's going to figure it out.

[429] Same way Andre Ward.

[430] Yep.

[431] You know, he was the same way.

[432] Like Kovalev, right?

[433] Exactly.

[434] The first fight's close.

[435] The second fight wasn't close at all.

[436] all.

[437] The crazy thing about Andre Ward, and I have, I've had Andre Ward on the podcast before, is that Andre fought most of his career with one arm.

[438] Yeah.

[439] And people didn't even know.

[440] They had no idea.

[441] He literally didn't have a right arm.

[442] That's true.

[443] He fucked everybody up with a left hand.

[444] It's crazy.

[445] It's true.

[446] Guys like Carl, Frotch, and even Kovlev in the first fight.

[447] Yeah.

[448] I mean, it's amazing what he accomplished.

[449] Yeah, big ups to Andre Ward.

[450] He just got.

[451] He's amazing.

[452] You know, they just injected him to the Hall of Fame.

[453] Did they?

[454] Yeah.

[455] Yeah.

[456] He's a unique human being.

[457] Yeah.

[458] Very unique because when Canelo knocked out Kovalev, there was a lot of talk for, you know, Andre is still young.

[459] He's still in his prime as a human being.

[460] He could absolutely fight right now if he wanted to.

[461] Yeah.

[462] But he decided that he would be better serving boxing as a commentator and as a man with perfect faculties intact.

[463] Yeah.

[464] Retiring undefeated as a champion.

[465] two division, two division champion, gold medalists in the Olympics, perfect, no problems.

[466] Yeah.

[467] When you look at him and when you hear him talk, there's no cognitive decline.

[468] He's smooth.

[469] He's articulate.

[470] He's an outstanding gentleman.

[471] Like as a human being, he's a very religious, devoutly religious person.

[472] Yeah.

[473] He's a stunning human being, man. He is.

[474] He really is.

[475] No, in real life.

[476] You know what I mean?

[477] I'm talking about from a close up.

[478] Yeah.

[479] You know, he's the same way.

[480] inside and outside the ring, he actually, you know, it was a lot of millions he walked away from.

[481] A lot of millions, a lot.

[482] You know what I mean?

[483] Because he was the guy that made the most sense.

[484] If Canello is going to have a light heavyweight super fight, he's not really a light heavyweight.

[485] Everybody knows that.

[486] He stepped up and fought Kovalib, but Kovalov was kind of on the decline, and he fucked him up and stopped him.

[487] Yeah.

[488] But if you wanted to have a guy who was like the perfect foil for Conello at light heavyweight, it's Andre Ward.

[489] Most definitely.

[490] It's Andre Ward.

[491] I mean, that would have been amazing.

[492] If they were in their prime, my God, what a fight that would have been.

[493] Yeah.

[494] My God.

[495] Yeah.

[496] Who are you liking that fight?

[497] I would never bet against Andre Ward.

[498] I just wouldn't bet against him.

[499] It just wouldn't bet against him.

[500] Yeah.

[501] I don't know if I bet against Canello right now, though.

[502] Oh, he's a beast.

[503] Listen, I would watch that fight like this.

[504] Yeah, no, he's a beast.

[505] Canello is a different human being post - Floyd.

[506] If you watch the Danny Jen, Jacob's fight, Danny Jacobs is throwing missiles at his head, whee, wee, and he just standing in there, moving, and beautiful head movement, beautiful, which, you know, he had a little bit of that early in his career, but post - Floyd, his defense just rose considerably.

[507] Once he realized, like, that dude was in front of me, and I couldn't do shit.

[508] You know, like, that's that rub that you get when you fight a real world champion, not a world champion, but a greatest ever world champion.

[509] And you realize, like, wow, there's fucking levels to this thing.

[510] Yeah.

[511] Make you better.

[512] 100%.

[513] 100%.

[514] And it definitely made Canello better.

[515] It did.

[516] I mean, Canello was going to get better no matter what.

[517] But there's no question that post -Floid, it's a different Canello.

[518] Yeah.

[519] No, I just hope Florida leave him alone and don't fight him at this point.

[520] He's huge now.

[521] He's so big.

[522] He's so big.

[523] Yeah.

[524] Floyd's smart.

[525] He would never do that.

[526] I mean, he's fighting at 175, you know?

[527] I think this weekend's fight is 168, though, correct?

[528] I think so.

[529] The gentleman is fighting in Calum is like, he's like six, four.

[530] Pull up the video of Canelo Alvarez.

[531] There's a face -off between Canelo Alvarez and this weekend's opponent.

[532] It's crazy, how tall this dude is.

[533] Like, it's an interesting fight just based on just the physical aspects of it.

[534] Yeah.

[535] Yeah, that guy's a quality fighter, too.

[536] It's not, you know, going to be easy for him, I don't believe.

[537] No. And he's a dude that's a natural 168, and you look at Canello having started his career as a junior middleweight.

[538] Look at this.

[539] Look at that.

[540] Wow.

[541] Look at Callum Smith.

[542] Look at how big he is.

[543] That's crazy.

[544] If he know how to use that reach properly, it can be a long night.

[545] Well, Canello has that nasty left hook, that left hook to the body.

[546] tight is yeah that's a big gentleman wow yeah and he's a very very good fighter but you know that's what i admire about canelo is that what he's that's what he's looking to fight he's looking to fight the guys like danny jacobs the guys like calum smith the guys like you know uh sergey covalve i mean he's looking to fight the the best fights are available for him right now that's true you know he's he's something special right now but i think he became something special like really a lot of it was because of that Floyd fight because Floyd shut him down.

[547] If you look at Canello in every other fight, he's a wrecking machine.

[548] And that fight, he looked like a guy was just puzzled.

[549] Yeah, he was puzzled.

[550] Yeah.

[551] Confused.

[552] He didn't know what to do.

[553] It's amazing.

[554] Yeah.

[555] I love that.

[556] I love seeing when people achieve a level of proficiency that's so powerful that a world champion is standing in front of him, go, fuck, man, I got a lot to learn.

[557] Yeah.

[558] Yeah.

[559] true statement it's levels to it man and i i i wouldn't explore do that over and over yeah i thought they were the best and even in sparring they're like whoa do you think it's crazy now that he's fighting youtube stars and shit though i mean he's making a lot of money yeah it's brilliant in that regard like the connor mcgregor fight yeah i mean i actually kind of like him not you know fighting a lot of these young guys you know what i mean i think it's good business moves and you know he's older than this guy and he's smaller a lot smaller that dude's big i think the scale balance off somewhat you know the guy younger and he's bigger so he's huge yeah this dude's a 200 -pound guy my heavy weight it's crazy yeah the fact that he's doing this is crazy and the fact that he's doing this in japan japan doesn't give a fuck did you see that fight that he fought with uh tension Nazukawa?

[560] Yeah, yeah.

[561] That was ridiculous.

[562] That guy, tension is a badass kickboxer, like a really good kickboxer.

[563] But he's 126 pounds.

[564] He's a tiny little dude.

[565] And the Japanese people, they love freak shows.

[566] They put on some wild, during the mixed martial arts heyday of Japan, they put on some wild fights, man. They had like 300 -pound dudes, fight 100 -pound dudes.

[567] They didn't give a fuck.

[568] They're like, let's make some crazy shit happen.

[569] Yeah, anything go.

[570] They really did.

[571] They had this guy, Minotaro Nogera, who was at the time the heavyweight champion of pride.

[572] And he was like a regular size heavyweight, like maybe 240, 240 pounds.

[573] And he fought Bob Sapp, who was 375 pounds with abs, just chock full of Mexican supplements, just smashing people.

[574] And they had this crazy freak fight.

[575] And they did a lot of that in Japan.

[576] Japan enjoys watching these people fight that are.

[577] mismatch size -wise they enjoy that for whatever reason so they enjoyed seeing tension go over there and and fight Floyd in a boxing match yeah where he's not really a boxer he's a kickboxer and you know to fight the best ever right when he's 20 30 pounds heavy than you it was just ridiculous well we saw what happened yeah well Floyd looked like you didn't even train for that fight no you didn't have to you know the guy is a genius that what he does and uh he's knew just what to do, just let me walk him down.

[578] What was funny when you see him smiling, when you see him smiling at him and walking forward?

[579] Yeah.

[580] It's like an execution.

[581] Well, Floyd is, he's brilliant at that, you know, like maximizing his profits in his later years.

[582] You know, I mean, this, that fight was an exhibition, but the Connor McGregor fight was a legitimate fight.

[583] Yeah.

[584] Which is crazy.

[585] A guy with zero professional fights ever.

[586] Steps in there.

[587] against the guy who was 49 and 0 at the time yeah they say show me the dollar well floyd is so good at marketing he's just so smart at that yeah did he learn a lot of that shit from you um i think uh we taught one another a lot of things you know what i mean but he definitely uh took things to a whole different level with what he done yeah um but what happened with you guys you guys had a falling out right Well, I think it was more so the group of guys he was with and some of my guys, you know, and I wrote about it in my book, The Art and Science of Respect.

[588] Yeah, I wrote about that story.

[589] Basically, you know, they had convinced him to not want to pay me after all the creative work that was put in.

[590] and, you know, I was able to change his mind.

[591] That's what I heard.

[592] But you guys are still cool.

[593] Yeah, no, we're cool.

[594] That's the homie.

[595] You know, it never was about he and I. You know, we just had to agree to do the right thing.

[596] And we was able to do that.

[597] And, hey, that's the homie.

[598] It's unfortunate that, you know, he didn't recognize your talents.

[599] and have you stay involved with him, you know?

[600] Well, you know.

[601] Or that his people didn't, I should say.

[602] You know, I enjoyed the journey.

[603] I was with him for four years, and I helped lay the foundation that he was able to build off of.

[604] And, you know, I'm grateful for that because that ignited my whole career where boxing was concerned.

[605] So, you know, life goes on.

[606] Yeah.

[607] Yeah.

[608] Um, who, you, you work with Shakur Stevenson right now.

[609] Oh, yeah.

[610] Yeah, I have Shakur Stevenson.

[611] Oh, man, I got.

[612] How many fighters do you have in your roster currently?

[613] Like, like 14 fighters.

[614] I have.

[615] And I love that this is a passion project for you.

[616] Oh, man. This is not like your main source of income by any means.

[617] This is just something you truly enjoy.

[618] Yeah, no, I really love this.

[619] I have Shakur Stephen, Tony Yoker, Jared Anderson, Tucker, Jihad Tucker, Julian Rodriguez.

[620] Meagas, Maizzi, Duke Reagan, Troy Isley.

[621] So all levels.

[622] Oh, man. All levels.

[623] Best, man. What I've done and what I'm doing right now is actually making a move to take over.

[624] You know, I'm predicting in 2021, 22, I should have a champion at every weight.

[625] Now, do you have interest in management and promotion?

[626] Do you have interest in putting on shows?

[627] no no you know in boxing you can only choose one or the right you can't participate in in both worlds so i'm a manager i negotiate against the promoters i protect the fighters that's the big issue with fighters why i was going to get to that is that fighters seem to have more conflicts like this shit that happened with bob arum and terence crawford that that turned my stomach when you got a guy as good as terence crawford who legitimately could be one of the all -time greats.

[628] It might be already.

[629] One of the rare, like, a switch hitter who's just as good orthodox as he is at Southpaw, figures everybody out, beats everybody.

[630] And then he talks crazy shit about losing money, promoting his fights.

[631] Like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[632] Maybe you're doing a shitty job promoting him.

[633] You got in your roster one of the greatest of all time.

[634] real stone cold killer yeah terence crawford is a stone cold killer oh man and you should be singing his praises knocked out kell brook with a jab yeah i mean it's basically a jab yeah it was a jab yeah i mean it's crazy and then just i mean that's what started the party and then beat the fuck out of him afterwards but he's something really unique yeah no terran's one of a kind You know, no doubt about it, he's a special fighter.

[635] But for Bob Aram to say that, I was like, it turned my stomach.

[636] I was like, what are you doing?

[637] How can you say that?

[638] Like, keep that, if you're losing all that money, like, first of all, keep that shit to yourself.

[639] But what you should be saying is, how good is Terrence Crawford?

[640] You should be letting everybody know.

[641] You should be shouting it from the mountaintops.

[642] Look how good this guy is.

[643] We can't get this guy fights because people are terrified to him because of this.

[644] because he knocks out Kellbrook with a jab because he fucks everybody up he figures people out he figures you out orthodox then he switches up Southpaw on you and starts beating the brakes off you he's something really unique I'm a giant Terrence Crawford fan Me too Love that dude I can't wait to see him fight Air Spence Woo is that gonna be interesting Yeah especially after Spence His recent victory over Danny Garcia Yeah Spence is something special too I thought when that car accident happened And I thought, oh my God, oh my God.

[645] What's crazy is he survived because he didn't have his fucking seatbelt on.

[646] That's what's crazy.

[647] That's real crazy.

[648] I think he, well, let's go further than that.

[649] He survived because the creator protected him.

[650] Something happened.

[651] You know what I mean?

[652] Yeah, I mean, if you want to believe the creator is protecting anyone, he protected Earl Spencer that day.

[653] Yeah, most definitely.

[654] Because that, that was, you know, he's one of the fighters that's actually sponsored by my company on it as well.

[655] We sponsored Earl, like, early on, like, years ago.

[656] Okay.

[657] He's a special fighter, and he hasn't had the right dance partner to show his true greatness.

[658] You know, he's, he's had great fighters, you know, to establish the fact, like, Mikey Garcia, like, man, he's something, he's something unique and special, but it's going to take a fight like the Terrence Crawford fight.

[659] And that's, if you're a boxing fan, that's the obvious fight to make.

[660] You know?

[661] It's like Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua, that's the obvious heavyweight fight to make.

[662] And the obvious fight at that way class is Earl Spence and Terrence Crawford.

[663] It has to happen.

[664] Sooner than later.

[665] Sooner than later, right.

[666] You don't want it to be like Pacquayette and Floyd where it happens too late.

[667] Right.

[668] Yeah.

[669] What's happening here?

[670] Pound for pound rankings.

[671] Earl Spence Jr. passes Terrence Crawford.

[672] Oh!

[673] What?

[674] Blasphemy.

[675] Wow.

[676] Blasphemy.

[677] Wow.

[678] That's some shenanigans.

[679] Who wrote that?

[680] Yeah, that's shenanigans.

[681] I don't agree with that.

[682] Number one, Canelo.

[683] InouA, number two.

[684] That's interesting, too.

[685] I don't agree with that either.

[686] Yeah, no, that thing is...

[687] But they're great.

[688] Those are great fighters.

[689] Pound for pound is always weird, though, too, right?

[690] Yeah, it's political.

[691] Yes.

[692] Yeah, it is political.

[693] There's nothing wrong with, like, thinking that Errol Spence is one of the greats right now.

[694] He is, but I think he needs a victory over.

[695] someone like Terrence Crawford he's been doing his thing you know he's been doing his thing but they just need to fight sooner than later you know what I mean let's let's put all of that lip wrestling yes to sleep and get in wrestling yeah isn't that the thing though with promoters though in boxing it's very difficult to get champions to fight champions when they're represented by different promoters yeah that becomes political as well and and hopefully those boxing promoters.

[696] I know top rank want to fight Terrence.

[697] I mean, want to fight Spence.

[698] So it's just a matter of...

[699] And who is Spence with?

[700] Al Heyman.

[701] Okay.

[702] It's a matter of them coming to the table and making it happen.

[703] Yeah, they just have to agree on terms.

[704] It's an exciting time for boxing, though.

[705] You know, boxing comes in waves.

[706] Yeah.

[707] And right now it's an exciting time for boxing.

[708] There's a lot of great matchups out there.

[709] Yeah, it is.

[710] I'm excited about your, Chris Steven.

[711] Did you see him fight the other night?

[712] I didn't.

[713] No, I didn't watch the fight.

[714] I mean, he's, to me, he's going to be a Mayweather on steroids.

[715] Really?

[716] Yeah, I really view him up on the ladder like that.

[717] Wow, it's one of the fights that I set aside that I have to make the time.

[718] I'm just too goddamn busy.

[719] I sit down and watch it.

[720] I mean, it wasn't nowhere near close.

[721] It was kind of like a lot of flawed fights in the beginning stages where he just dominate every round.

[722] Wow.

[723] But you can still see that sweet art or what he was doing.

[724] And you're like, wow.

[725] okay he gonna do the same thing you know on the other levels it's an interesting time now because these fights are being held with no audience you know or very limited audience like uh anthony joshua's fight they they held it in london and there was some audience members but they were very spaced out yeah and what do you think about that well i think we have to adjust to you know the world and the reality of what's taking place right now you know you know in a perfect world, you know, I miss the sounds, you know, the, yeah, that whole thing where the audience is concerned, that's missed dramatically, but, hey, we have to adjust and do things by the rule, so.

[726] I miss it, but I have to tell you, calling UFC fights live with no audience, there's two different, I view it as this way, it's almost like going to see an acoustic concert versus like a big arena filled with people and, like, a, like, a, a rock concert right like with electric guitars versus an acoustic guitar there's something about the intimacy of these shows where the fights are taking place with no audience you could hear the cornerman screaming out instructions you could hear the grunts when dudes get hit you could hear the heavy breathing it's like first of all for me as a commentator to be there live i feel so fortunate because i'm like i'm one of 20 people that's in in the room to watch this world championship fight And there's something about it that's like, it makes it extra special.

[727] Yeah.

[728] Even watching the fights at home, I kind of like it.

[729] I like no audience.

[730] You hear more.

[731] No, that's true.

[732] Yeah.

[733] That's true.

[734] You got a point.

[735] I mean, I like it both ways, but if I had to choose, I want the people there.

[736] Yeah.

[737] Yeah.

[738] Well, yeah, if I had to choose, I'd want the people there because I want more people to experience it.

[739] I don't want to be selfish.

[740] Yeah.

[741] But if I'm being selfish, I kind of like, no. audience you just hear more it's real but there's something wild about some about crazy when crazy shit happens and the whole place gets on their feet and goes nuts yeah and then when the fight is over just the roar of the crowd there's something there's something wild about that and it's something wild about a fighter that may be down and he energized by yes the crowd and make a compact yes yes yeah so is that like what your most satisfying business venture like being involved in boxing?

[742] Yeah, it is.

[743] That's my first love.

[744] And, you know, I just, I just think boxing is the most exciting sport in the world, you know.

[745] So I'm, I'm in love with boxing, and I feel more joy in that space than a lot of the other businesses that I'm in.

[746] Well, it's, it's such a pure sport.

[747] Yeah.

[748] You know, the highs are so high and the lows are so low.

[749] And, you know, especially when it comes to knockouts.

[750] The finishes are so definitive.

[751] What does you take on this whole Deonté Wilder shit?

[752] You know, man, I don't understand what's going on, you know, with Deontay.

[753] From what I'm hearing, they may be trying to stop the Fury in Joshua fight from taking place.

[754] And, you know, my thing is, if he's not going to fight, get out of the way.

[755] let the movement continue because I don't like I tell you what I think he missed the opportunity he should have fought Fury in December because I think he may have would have had an edge conditioning wise because Fury you know wasn't in their gym properly oh he wasn't no I don't think he was in that gym properly around that time so so after the rematch Fury slacked off well i don't know how much he slacked off but i do know you know he wasn't where he was supposed to be he gets fat he likes to get fat he parties a little bit yeah yeah yeah it's just it it it bothers me because uh you know i've talked to dante i had dante in here and i have a lot of respect for him and i have a lot of admiration for him and his power is legendary his power is crazy his power is like he's got magic yeah you know when he knocked out ortees he hit him in the forehead and just shut his lights out it's like who the fuck does that it's like it's magic but when i saw first of all he get rid of briland mark briland is you know Olympic gold medalist yeah former world champion a just not just a great fighter but a great human being a great coach yeah and was looking out for his best interest when he stopped that fight he knew what was happening yeah he's like this has to stop and then the excuses yeah the excuses bother me yeah because when fighters start making weird excuses that means that no one's around them to go hey man stop stop stop stop what the fuck are you saying yeah what the fuck are you saying your costume was the reason why you got knocked out yeah and then it wasn't just the costume then it was like somebody might have poisoned them yeah and then it was Tyson Fury has egg weights in his in his gloves wow and then it was the gloves aren't on properly so that you know the knuckles were at the bottom part of the glove and the top part was just flopping around wow it doesn't make any sense and it doesn't make any sense for a guy who's in boxing because anybody who knows how Tyson Fury fights and understands boxing Tyson does a lot of this shit he does a lot of like he's he's showing you this to set you up with that right the hands are flopping around because he's being loose and he's giving you this right and people like your hand doesn't bend back that way well the fuck it doesn't it does when you do that it might not if you go like this yeah it doesn't go all the way but if you do that that's exactly what happens and he's doing that with his hands he's flicking his hands out there showing him that and then and then dropping the right hand on him i was in training camp with tyson fury i have a heavyweight by the name of jared annison that sparred with tyson fear to help him get ready for that fight and tyson fury was working hard and that jab and everything that's being complained about he was doing the same thing and sparring wasn't nothing to it you You know what I mean?

[756] It's organic.

[757] And, you know, you just got to tilt his hat to the guy.

[758] He was a better guy that night.

[759] Yeah.

[760] And he worked hard.

[761] I witnessed him.

[762] He worked hard for that fight.

[763] And he was victorious.

[764] It's just sad when a great champion like Deonté Wilder had literally knocked out every single opponent other than Tyson Fury and Stavern in the first fight.

[765] Yeah.

[766] I mean, he had an incredible record.

[767] When you look at the guy's record, he has one single day.

[768] decision every other fight he won by knockout who the fuck does that who the fuck does that Tyson couldn't accomplish that no one accomplished that you can make a real argument that dante wilder up until that second Tyson fury fight was the greatest knockout artist of all time yeah especially in the heavyweight division may not have definitely didn't face the stiff competition that Mike Tyson did or that any other other greats did Larry Holmes did or many grades, but what he did was extraordinary.

[769] The kind of power that he exhibits is just a key, like, Teddy Atlas did it at best.

[770] It's like he's like Thor.

[771] He's like he's got that hammer.

[772] Yeah.

[773] He's like it's like it's an eraser.

[774] It races all the mistakes you might have made in the earlier round.

[775] Blah!

[776] Yeah, it's from the jungle.

[777] I don't know.

[778] It's from, it's from the center of the earth, man. That's like the earth's core inside his glove.

[779] It's crazy.

[780] His power is crazy.

[781] Me, it is.

[782] But sometimes, and I'm sure you see this as a manager, sometimes when a person has extraordinary gifts, like the extraordinary gift of power, they don't develop the technical aspects of boxing, the way a person who maybe has soft hands does.

[783] Yeah, that's true.

[784] And even with speed a lot of times, you know what I mean?

[785] If they get away, like Roy Jones, for example, I think he got away years because of speed and his fundamentals.

[786] wasn't the sound as, you know, they should have been.

[787] Well, you saw that in the Hopkins rematch, right?

[788] Because Bernard Hopkins was all about fundamentals, all about defense and discipline.

[789] And Hopkins lost a close decision to Roy in the first fight, but then beat Roy in the second fight when he was actually older than Roy.

[790] But Roy's decline was more obvious because Roy's game was so dynamic.

[791] He was all about leaping left hooks And when Roy was in his prime, he was a force of nature.

[792] Oh, yeah.

[793] I mean, he really, really was.

[794] Roy was, in my opinion, the most impressive physical specimen inside a boxing ring I've ever seen.

[795] A lot of people don't know, but Roy was faster than flawed.

[796] That's crazy.

[797] Yeah, a lot of people don't believe that because he was light, heavyweight.

[798] His speed was faster than flawed speed.

[799] I can believe it.

[800] Shit, I've witnessed it.

[801] It's crazy speed.

[802] man and wants to speed you know all the time is undefeated undefeated you know what I mean so when he started arriving you know things change it just kind of go down here to a certain extent well I think it was that but I really think a big factor was the the beating John Ruiz at heavyweight and then draining his body down to 175 to go back and fight Tarver again to fight Tarver and then fight Tarver again it's just it was too much weight loss wow man you know now That's a whole other story because I had a meeting with Roy Jones and Mike Tyson at my ranch for them to fight one another before that fight.

[803] Really?

[804] Yeah.

[805] How long ago?

[806] Oh, I got that in the book also, to pitch you and everything.

[807] Me, Roy and Mike Tyson at the ranch.

[808] And we actually left there in agreement to make that fight.

[809] And, you know, right toward the end, I think me and Roy, we went and met with the Maloof brothers.

[810] at the palms there it is yeah and uh you know roy decided i think i think uh what's it like tarva was talking so much shit man until roy was like me go let me go take care of him one more time and i was like roy man this let's get that bird you know in the hand versus that one in the bush and uh yeah he went to take care of tarva man that's the only reason that fight didn't come to fruition tarva's no joke Yeah.

[811] Tarver's real.

[812] When Tarver is standing in front of Roy at the rematch and he goes, you got any excuses tonight, Roy?

[813] Like right before the fight starts, like, oh my God.

[814] Yeah, that kind of threw me off when I heard he said that.

[815] I said, what that dude talking about in the ring of Roy?

[816] And then to win by knockout after that, man. Man. Yeah, Tarver's, he doesn't get the respect that he deserves either.

[817] Tarver was a great, great boxer.

[818] I think he's still active as a heavyweight too, right?

[819] Like up until, recently i believe he had a fight within the last couple of years yeah i think he uh got uh discipline because of uh uh steroids or something and he didn't came if you want to go to heavy weight yeah you got to get involved with mexican supplements yeah good guy though i like talk yeah yeah yeah it was a talented fighter yeah very talented fighter yeah big hoar yeah it's funny how those things like line up like he could have been mike tyson versus roy jones jr when they're both in their prime right that's true i really liked the way bernard hopkins was able to you saw the way he done tarbara i think that was yeah that was amazing the way he just dissected hopkins shuts people down when he fought felix trinidad i will never forget that because everybody thought that felix trinidad was this young up -and -coming line and i believe bernard was about 36 at the time and people were riding him off but bernard hopkins beat the breaks off of Felix Trinidad.

[820] And I remember watching that fight, I'm like, my God.

[821] Yeah, he's done the same thing with a guy I used to manage Winky Wright.

[822] Oh, yeah, I remember that.

[823] I remember that.

[824] Winky Wright was a great defensive fighter, too.

[825] He was so clever.

[826] So clever.

[827] Well, I mean, how about what he did with Kelly Pavlik?

[828] Oh, yeah.

[829] That was another way.

[830] Everybody was like, well, now, for sure, it's over.

[831] Right.

[832] You know, this is years past Felix Trinidad.

[833] Kelly Pavick's a knockout artist.

[834] Yeah.

[835] You know, and everybody's like, well, this is going to be the one.

[836] No. No. Yeah.

[837] Sweet signs he had a down pat.

[838] Well, he was just so smart at being safe and roughing you up and knowing how to be like aggressive on the inside and clinching you and frustrating guys.

[839] And just his fundamental, he was never out of position.

[840] His fundamentals are so good.

[841] His defense is so good.

[842] Yeah.

[843] No, it's one of them special type of fighters for a long time.

[844] long time world class deep into his late 40s world class from Mars crazy I mean well that's why he had to change his nickname from the executioner to the alien because people like how the fuck are you doing this pushups between round yeah crazy yeah no he's extraordinary I love his story too because when he went to jail and then got out one of the guards said I'll see you back in here and he remembers that guy and remember using that as motivation like the fuck you will yeah oops we got crazy jamie do we have a broom uh we can get something all right we'll leave that alone for now it's just a glass but it's um the whole sport of boxing is uh there's a lot of life in that it's like what you put in is what you achieve like the your results are dependent upon the way you process things and the way you approach things.

[845] Oh, yeah.

[846] There's so much to that.

[847] And that's one of the things that I love so much about combat sports.

[848] How much you put into that is what you get out of it.

[849] That's right.

[850] You know, it's just like the universal life, I mean, laws of life.

[851] You know, you reap what you so.

[852] And if you decide to take a shortcut, it's going to show.

[853] Yeah.

[854] Yeah, it's going to show.

[855] Now, as a person that is, you're so much, you're so invested in discipline and respect and honor, like, it's kind of a perfect sport for you to be involved in in a lot of ways, because it represents so many of those different aspects of human character.

[856] Yeah.

[857] Yeah, I agree.

[858] I hadn't thought of it in that aspect, but you're right.

[859] You know, you're right.

[860] But I just, man, I'm just in love with the sport of boxing.

[861] And it just been that way since I was a kid for some reason, like a magnet.

[862] I remember seeing Don King with the hair and Muhammad Ali.

[863] And, man, I was mesmerized.

[864] Like, wow, that looks special.

[865] I got interested in boxing when I was a little kid.

[866] My parents were hippies.

[867] Like, they weren't into boxing.

[868] But when Muhammad Ali had a rematch with Leon Spanx, after Muhammad Ali lost his title, Leon Spanx, and then had a rematch, my parents made us all watch it because Muhammad Ali represented way more than boxing to the culture to just to human beings at the time he represented this guy who stood up against the Vietnam war who who stood up for people in a way that he risked his career oh yeah got shut down for three years in his prime after arguably like one of his most devastating performances you fought Cleveland Big Cat Williams lights them up like a Christmas tree yeah and then they make them take three years off just because he wouldn't fight in the Vietnam War.

[869] Yeah.

[870] Yeah, Novi actually put his life on the line.

[871] That's why I call him the greatest of all time because of the things he'd done outside of the ring and the things he stood for.

[872] Yeah, he was something other than just a world champion, other than just a boxer.

[873] And I remember when my parents, I don't know how old I was at the time, I was probably eight or nine years old.

[874] but when my parents maybe sit down and watch that fight I remember thinking I can't believe my parents give a fuck about boxing like what is this and I think that was what got me really interested in boxing yeah yeah it was bigger than boxing when I lead took that you know that stage man he special special special I went to his funeral and I never had experience like that with all the cultures and different things things, I was, like, stunned.

[875] Like, wow.

[876] You know, people from all over the world was there speaking.

[877] Really?

[878] Yeah.

[879] It was really interesting.

[880] Wow.

[881] I mean, when he was alive, he was the most famous human being on earth.

[882] You know, I guess hearing about that was one thing, but to actually be sitting there and witnessing, you know, all these different people from around the world, you know, what he meant to them, I was like, wow, this was a special guy.

[883] he was a special guy and there's a lot of lessons to be learned both good and bad from his life as well particularly about the end of his career right some of the sad as shit and and not just that but the the way he was taking advantage of yeah and you know that his need for money that he had not prepared properly and invested properly and just lived a little too loose and wild and then had to take those fights like with trevor burbank yeah those were sad fights yeah definitely and the one with, who was that he fought, not for, Larry Holmes?

[884] Larry Holmes.

[885] Oh, man. I left that fight kind of upset with Holmes.

[886] Yeah, a lot of people were.

[887] You know what I mean?

[888] I really think he went that extra.

[889] He didn't have to, but he went there.

[890] Well, he was his sparring partner.

[891] He was Ali's sparring partner for a long time.

[892] And I think there was probably a bridge he had a cross to consider himself, like the real champion.

[893] And I think it ruined his career because I think Larry Holmes never really got the respect that he deserved because of that because people resented him for doing that and then also just living in the shadow of Ali.

[894] Yeah, you can only imagine how many weapons he took from Ali coming up.

[895] Yeah.

[896] You know, that thing went deeper than what was in front of the TV.

[897] The problem is we didn't see that.

[898] All we saw was this beloved champion who was this cultural icon get the shit beat out of them by this young up -and -coming champion.

[899] Yeah, just like with Kobe and Jordan.

[900] I remember seeing Kobe like shit Jordan down in an all -star game.

[901] And I was like, man, raise up, Kobe.

[902] Let Jordan shine his last game, you know.

[903] But Kobe wasn't trying to hear it.

[904] Yeah, you can't.

[905] Yeah.

[906] At least that's acceptable.

[907] Yeah.

[908] Because in basketball, it's, you know, it might have.

[909] felt terrible for jordan yeah but it's not a beating right that's the thing about boxing is you pay for it with your health yeah that and those consequences the consequences of a big like meldrick taylor was never the same after the hulios hazer shavez fight it was never the same oh wasn't that a brutal fight man brutal fight man richard steel stopped it was like two seconds to go on the clock or something crazy whoa but that's a great example that i always use of a fight where the fighter is never the same again yeah you don't recover from some fights some fights take all of it out of you yeah leave it right there yeah he was never the same after that never and then i remember his fight with terry norris after that you could see that he was just not the same he wasn't the same guy and terry is not the same guy he's not the same guy now that's for sure yeah yeah well he had a lot of rough fights too julian jackson yeah you know man you're a real student of him I love boxing.

[910] Love it.

[911] The heart.

[912] I feel like I'm sitting there talking to an encyclopedia, man. You know the game, man. Well, Julian Jackson was one of those rare special punchers.

[913] Ooh, man. Special power.

[914] Yeah.

[915] You know?

[916] But then when Julian met Gerald McClellan, Gerald McClellan's like, I'll show you a special puncher.

[917] Yeah.

[918] You know?

[919] Yeah.

[920] And look what happened with him.

[921] That's another one, right?

[922] Yeah.

[923] Well, that was one of the things that I talked to Roy about, but that made Roy like really second -guess and think about his career because when Gerald McClellan was coming up, he was thought to be the big rival for Roy Jones Jr. Yeah.

[924] Everybody thought that's going to be the big fight.

[925] When those two guys get together, that is going to be our version of in that way class at that time of what we want to see with Terrence Crawford and Earl Spence.

[926] Yeah.

[927] Same kind of thing.

[928] Like two just destroyers.

[929] Like what happens?

[930] What happens when you get these guys together?

[931] I want to see.

[932] Right.

[933] And then Gerald fought Nigel Ben.

[934] Ooh.

[935] What a fight that was.

[936] Yeah, that was a tough.

[937] That was a, I mean, you could still watch it to this day.

[938] And what a fucking war that was.

[939] And the fact that Nigel Ben made it out of that first round.

[940] Yeah, unbelievable.

[941] What heart.

[942] Unbelievable.

[943] What heart?

[944] Yeah.

[945] I mean, Gerald McClellan was nuking everybody.

[946] It just nuked them.

[947] Just boom!

[948] Boom!

[949] And Nigel Ben, through the ropes and everything, where everyone's like, this fight's over.

[950] Yeah.

[951] You never had an opportunity to see him come to fruition.

[952] And that reminds me of Aikabuchi.

[953] Ica Beabuchi, yes.

[954] That's a heavy weight.

[955] I would have really liked it.

[956] Oh, my God.

[957] He's a piece right.

[958] When he beat David Tua?

[959] Everybody was like, holy shit.

[960] Ikei Beabuchi was terrifying.

[961] Yeah, he was.

[962] But he got in.

[963] some serious trouble right yeah yeah in Las Vegas well there was talk of him coming back at 40 years old he was going to get released from prison yeah he got out he did get out yeah he got out it just didn't didn't work yeah it was too late I went visited him when he was uh in jail or in Las Vegas and man they brought him out in shackles and the girls were like he here to visit him man he'd been beating up all the the sale man the inmates, the, you know, the guards.

[964] Yeah.

[965] Yeah, he was letting them have it in that.

[966] That is the last dude you want to talk shit to in jail.

[967] I got to be a bitchy.

[968] God damn.

[969] He's a beast, man. Who?

[970] Like a big holy field.

[971] Yeah, huge.

[972] Jacked.

[973] Yeah.

[974] What they call him, the president?

[975] That was his nickname, right?

[976] Mm -hmm.

[977] Yeah.

[978] My God, he was a tank.

[979] Man, special dude.

[980] And when he went to jail, everybody was, you know, boxing fans were like, Oh, no. He just, whatever he had, that rage inside the ring.

[981] Yeah.

[982] That rage continued throughout life.

[983] Sir.

[984] Let me love it, please.

[985] Here we go, brother.

[986] Thank you.

[987] Cheers.

[988] Thank you.

[989] Thanks for being here, man. I really appreciate it.

[990] Thanks for having me, man. I'm enjoying every moment.

[991] What do you think about these guys that are decided to fight again in their 50s?

[992] Guys like Tyson and Roy Jones Jr., now Holyfield.

[993] field as well.

[994] You know, I enjoyed the last fight.

[995] I did too.

[996] Yeah, I mean, I think it's different, but, you know, I like it as long as they don't jump in with these younger guys.

[997] Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

[998] I mean, I love to change.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] I enjoy both of them coming out of the ring like they went in.

[1001] Yes.

[1002] You know what I mean?

[1003] Of course, they got them a payday.

[1004] So I like it.

[1005] I'm really, looking forward to seeing Holyfield has been working nonstop nonstop yeah Holyfield's a unique character man yeah he's unbreakable one of my favorite he might lose he might lose to people but that's just because of the limitations of the human body not because of his mind his mind is unbreakable that guy has confidence in himself that never ends oh man and character just the ability to drive forward board and to conquer.

[1006] Those fights with Riddick Boe.

[1007] My God.

[1008] My God.

[1009] Crazy wars with Riddick Boe.

[1010] People forget about those wars.

[1011] Oh my God.

[1012] When I was a kid, when watching those fights, like you'd be like, this is madness.

[1013] These guys were going to war.

[1014] I couldn't believe his chin.

[1015] Holyfield got a chin like none other.

[1016] Like nobody.

[1017] Incredible.

[1018] And it'd been that way.

[1019] That shows you how good James Tony is, because James Tony stopped him.

[1020] You know, I watched that fight recently.

[1021] And James Tony's a middleweight.

[1022] Mm -hmm.

[1023] How about that?

[1024] James Tony is his best.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] You know?

[1027] He's a technical beast.

[1028] Oh, my God.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] And one of the greatest shit talkers of all time.

[1031] He would talk so much shit.

[1032] Just in sparring.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] In fights, everything.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] At the ring.

[1037] No, James Tony's amazing.

[1038] That's the home.

[1039] I ran into James Tony a couple of years ago.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] At a, like, some, this was a, there was a bar in Woodland Hills.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] And I was, I was with some friends.

[1044] I went to meet them.

[1045] I sat down.

[1046] I was with my wife and a couple of her friends as well.

[1047] We're having a drink and this dude walks in with a suit.

[1048] And they're like, who is that?

[1049] I'm like, who is that?

[1050] Who the fuck is?

[1051] I got up out of the chair.

[1052] I go, that's James fucking Tony.

[1053] And I went over and gave him a hug and said hi to him.

[1054] He had fought in the UFC a few years earlier.

[1055] Oh, yeah.

[1056] He fought, Randy Couture.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] It didn't last long.

[1059] he just took a payday I don't think he was really training for it he lived in my neighborhood at the time okay so I ran into him at the gas station afterwards right like a couple weeks after the fight I was so what's up James how you doing he's like I'm good I'm good no those guys the boxes are kind of out of line when they decide to go in there dealing with that USC business it takes a long time to learn but I think if they approach it correctly if they're young while they get involved and they approach it correctly.

[1060] See, I think one of the more interesting entrants into mixed martial arts is Cloresh's Shields.

[1061] Oh, yeah.

[1062] Because Cloressa is a beast of an athlete.

[1063] Right.

[1064] I mean, an incredible athlete.

[1065] And young.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] She's young.

[1068] She can still learn all this stuff.

[1069] Olympic old medalist, world champion boxer, tremendous hand speed, technical boxing skills off the charts.

[1070] Then she goes and trains with John Jones.

[1071] John Jones, who's the greatest of all time.

[1072] So she's training with the greatest of all time, and she's learning the wrestling, the takedown defense, and she's going to have such an advantage with her hands.

[1073] And every fight starts standing up.

[1074] She's going to learn.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] And she's doing the right moves, in my opinion.

[1077] She's signed with the PFL, which is a smaller organization, and she'll rack up some wins over there, hopefully, and then make her way eventually to the UFC, and I think that would be very interesting.

[1078] Yeah, I spoke with her, And she, you know, was voicing to me her frustration where boxing was concerned and that she was really thinking about going over there.

[1079] So I guess she decided.

[1080] Yeah, I talked to her a few years ago on Instagram and I said, are you interested in, are you going to fight MMA?

[1081] Because I know you're interested in this because I know she did some sparring with Cyborg.

[1082] She said she's thinking about it.

[1083] And we had talked about doing a podcast before I left L .A. But I'm a big fan of hers.

[1084] But I don't think there's any competition for her in boxing.

[1085] I think she's stuck.

[1086] Look at that.

[1087] Look at all the belts.

[1088] When it comes to boxing, there's, I mean, who is she going to fight?

[1089] There's only been a few standout women boxers, and the big problem has always been competition, like Ann Wolf, for example.

[1090] Anne Wolf to this day, who has like, in my opinion, the greatest one -punch knockout in the history of women's boxing.

[1091] And Wolf could crack.

[1092] And amazing trainer.

[1093] When she was training James Kirkland, and she was having them down.

[1094] do all kinds of crazy shit like she was she cracked that whip and james kirkland was at his best when he was under the tutelage of anne wolf yeah right here in austin and wolf is a monster yeah show that one punch knockout because it is crazy and right before that watch this power seriously who's got this kind of power right here boom wow i mean come on and just everything technical had incredible work ethic I mean Ann Wolf was a monster but who was there for her who was there Layla Ali but that never happened yeah Layla Ali is another one Muhammad Ali's daughter Rose to fame he made some money but what's the competition who's there for her you know it's hard Lucia Riker never got her due Lucia Riker was a beast.

[1095] A beast.

[1096] And she was an elite kickboxer, too.

[1097] Yeah, right.

[1098] She was from Holland.

[1099] You know, which is, Holland is the birthplace of, you know, Maitai came from Thailand, but Holland, they took Maitai and turned it into this style of kickboxes, Dutch kickboxing.

[1100] And Lucia Riker was a beast of a kickboxer.

[1101] Couldn't really get the fights you wanted there and decided to get into boxing.

[1102] Always chased down Christy Martin, but never got that fight.

[1103] you know christie martin was on a lot of undercards and she got kind of famous coal miners daughter but again it's like they don't get the fights that they want you know yeah that's true it's a hard world yeah all but it's fair but mma is the only place right now where women can shine for whatever reason where they have like legitimate elite status where they get a lot of press they get a lot of uh they get the accolades they get the respect they get the money Yeah.

[1104] You know?

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] That's true.

[1107] Do you follow M. May at all?

[1108] Not totally.

[1109] I watch here and now, but yeah.

[1110] I just love that guy that wrestle the bears.

[1111] Oh, Khabib?

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] Khabibnerugamatov is a monster.

[1114] He's a monster.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] He really is a monster.

[1117] He's a monster.

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] He's so disciplined.

[1120] So disciplined.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] There's a guy very religious.

[1123] No drinking, no smoking, no fucking around, no nothing.

[1124] devout Muslim just discipline just full discipline and a champion's mentality and undefeated undefeated in the most talent -filled weight class in the world at 155 pounds no one's undefeated at 155 this guy it's not just undefeated he might have lost two rounds in his whole career yeah might might have maybe just one wow everybody else just gets smashed you know it's amazing where you see greatness you know it's never without that discipline and that individual that's making that commitment to, you know, become great.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] It's never missing.

[1127] No, it's never missing.

[1128] It's never missing.

[1129] You get flashes of, of spectacular talent without discipline.

[1130] You know, there's always been a few guys that were like very talented and you'd see them, you're like, wow, this guy's dangerous, he's very talented, but without discipline, you never develop that sort of legacy that a true champion like Khabib has.

[1131] And you always come.

[1132] And in real life, too, to a certain expect.

[1133] You know, you just don't, it don't happen.

[1134] A lot of people call it luck.

[1135] Nope.

[1136] Yeah, they like to call it luck when they don't have the discipline and the, they don't do it.

[1137] They like to call it luck.

[1138] But when someone's consistent over long periods of time, pay attention.

[1139] Pay attention.

[1140] There's some fucking discipline involved there.

[1141] Because otherwise they're not going to make it.

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] There has to be.

[1144] There has to be that work ethic.

[1145] You're right.

[1146] It doesn't.

[1147] There's no real long -term success exists without it.

[1148] You can have these little flashes.

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] You know?

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] The problem with those flashes is you are, you're given a gift.

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] And you don't give that gift the respect and the justice that it deserves.

[1155] Yeah, that's that moment.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] Yeah.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] Versus the movement.

[1160] Yes.

[1161] Yes.

[1162] Yes.

[1163] Yes.

[1164] The moment versus the movement.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] And some people never learned that.

[1168] When you wrote this book, was this a book not just to sort of relay the lessons that you've learned in your life but to lay them out for young people and for people that need this information yeah i think a combination of boat you know it was i i come from a i guess it came from an energy and a situation of me first of all what happened where i was concerned uh you know my wins my losses everything happened in between and I think it just like covered ground in areas that I you know wasn't really thinking it would cover but you know just being real you know it's something about being real I figured that out what my kids was concerned you know when I would speak with them and not try to you know sugarcoat different things but just the the butt -necked it authentic truth you know i noticed they embraced the truth just a little better than trying to sugarcoat things so in my book i just raw and uncut you know this is how it was so i'm gonna just tell it like it is was this a calling for you did you have like this feeling in your head that you needed to do this and write this all down yeah i definitely feel like uh it definitely was a calling because i was a guy that i enjoyed being a quiet storm in the music industry.

[1169] I never, if anybody that followed my, you know, my track record and thing from the past, I was low key.

[1170] And it came a point where I call it the spirit kind of moved on me to, you know, matter of fact, it's living out my purpose.

[1171] You know what I mean?

[1172] It's one thing to engage with your talent and show everybody your talent.

[1173] And then I think as human beings, as we evolve then as a time for purpose and in my purpose I want to inspire uplift you know kind of help my fellow man to a certain extent so all of that was the movement that caused me to want to share you know my story so was it all the lessons that you learn in your life they're just sitting in your mind and you're saying like I have to share these these are these are valuable for other people and it will help other people yeah most definitely I knew when i had to go back and like really think of the things that i had came through uh i didn't really do that before i wrote the book i just went to like uh recording my stories on on paper and i'm like wow you know i came from a lot of shit i went through a lot of you know trials tribulations and different things like that that i know people go through you know because as i would travel around the where everybody asked me how you done this what when where how you was able to accomplish these things so it was like a buildup was taking place over the years that okay i need to share you know my glory because everybody want my story no everybody want my glory but everybody don't want my story you know what i mean yeah yeah well one of the things that's so valuable about a book like this is for young people they get to read all the things you you went through and it gives them it gives them a structure it gives them an idea what's possible for themselves when they see someone they admire someone that's become extremely successful and they read how it all went down and then they apply that in their own life they think about their own life it's very valuable yeah like a book like this can be fuel to a young person that's that's thinking about how do i become successful how do i become someone that i like the people that i admire well you read a book by the people that you admire and you try to figure out what they did and you read what they were thinking what it was like for them and you absorb that and take it in yourself yeah no absolutely it's absolutely truth um it's it's kind of hard to get a lot of people to read and i was one of those people and that's why you know on my journey now you know i really try to express and explain to them that readers are leaders, you know, if you want to become a leader, it's important to read because it was reading that really caused my career to go to a whole other level when I started reading, you know, because I was kind of, where I come from, reading wasn't popular.

[1174] It was like a boring thing to do, but it's a lot of power in reading.

[1175] And, you know, I wanted to be example to a people like myself, you know, that didn't believe in reading or just if you're interested in how to turn nothing into something.

[1176] If you're interested in the structure and the different rules of how to do things, then pick up a book.

[1177] Get the art and science of respect.

[1178] What were the books that inspired and educated you when you first started reading?

[1179] The biggest one that was life -changing to me was think and grow rich by the first.

[1180] holding in here.

[1181] Very interesting book.

[1182] Yeah, very.

[1183] And what had done for me, that particular book, I had a lot of gifts and a lot of powers that I was unaware of.

[1184] And I also wasn't aware of the importance of structure, you know, organizing and goals, writing the goals down and different things like that.

[1185] So when I read that book, you know, it was, I tell everybody it was like a lot.

[1186] A lot of biblical readers are familiar with Moses when he went up to get to Ten Commandments.

[1187] And he came back with his eyes on fire and like, you know what I mean?

[1188] He had saw something special.

[1189] When I read that book, that's what happened to me. A lot of, you know, my brain cells that was closed was open because, you know, I understood that I didn't really necessarily need a degree.

[1190] You know, I was in bondage for a long time thinking because.

[1191] I didn't have a degree I couldn't accomplish and become certain things.

[1192] That left immediately, you know what I mean?

[1193] And that's the importance of people, you know, being able to identify with people that, you know, came from a place that they came from.

[1194] You know what I mean?

[1195] I didn't have that, but I figured out how to do it.

[1196] So you could figure out how to do it the same way, you know, I did without, you know, Of course, we definitely push people toward, you know, education because, you know, I understand really clearly a lack of education and bad habits is what, you know, can cause you to stay in bondage.

[1197] That's beautiful, though, that's self -education.

[1198] It is education.

[1199] I mean, education doesn't just have to be out of school where you have to pay and go to.

[1200] You can get a tremendous education from books.

[1201] Yeah, that's true.

[1202] Were you, did someone refer that book to you?

[1203] you, did you, did someone try to get you to read these books or did you just find them on your own?

[1204] You know, that particular book, every night, you know, in my life since I've been like nine years old, you know, I've been a praying man and I always pray for wisdom, knowledge, and education.

[1205] And when that book, you know, came in my hand, I felt like it was answered prayer.

[1206] You know what I mean?

[1207] So when I started reading the book, I couldn't put it down.

[1208] You know what I mean?

[1209] It caused me to, I think I stayed in my room for like two days.

[1210] And when I came out, I, like, reconstructed my whole company at Rapalot.

[1211] You know, I went and, like, end up buying out my partner.

[1212] You know, I had a meeting with him.

[1213] And I told him, I say, I want to run my company now.

[1214] You know what I mean?

[1215] Because I had been using him for years as the guy up front.

[1216] He had the degree.

[1217] and, you know, I felt like, you know, he was more qualified to do these things than I was.

[1218] So I stayed in the background, worked in the studio with the artist and just made sure product was, you know, being done.

[1219] But after reading that and educating myself that you are fully qualified, more than qualified, to do this, I had a meeting with him and tried to convince him to take a backseat and let me run the situation, which led to me having to buy him out because he didn't feel I was qualified.

[1220] So against all odds, I bought him out.

[1221] And the banker, the distributor, everybody was trying to discourage me and everybody was saying, I'm going to be out of business in six months if I do that.

[1222] So I wasn't trying to hear any of that.

[1223] You know what I mean?

[1224] I fired like 25 people and kept like three.

[1225] And within them six months, I had set up a record in race.

[1226] rap a lot that had never been said before financially that's beautiful yeah a real story that's a beautiful that's a beautiful story yeah did you uh get inspired by any other books after that man i get inspired by uh i'm like on a reading journey right now the masterkey you know i love that book i don't know if you read the master key it's it's another great And that's another one that really taught me about the universal laws of life.

[1227] You know what I mean?

[1228] It was important for me to learn about the universal laws because there was a time in my life I was working against the universal laws.

[1229] And to understand how the universal laws operate, you know, has caused me to be able to live a much smoother fruit for life, you know, without going against them.

[1230] And what specifically about the universal laws?

[1231] other words like if you have an understanding let's just say on the law of gravity if you really understand the law of gravity and you understand that if i get on top of this building and jump down then i'm not going to float then you know you don't you don't way out to float right right and if you understand the law of attraction you understand the power of your mind that you can dream of these things and execute a work ethic and different things behind the law of attraction and you focus on that, then you can bring that to fruition.

[1232] So, you know, those are powerful laws that meant a difference to me. And when you, do you have a book list of like these, these books that have inspired you that you recommend to other people?

[1233] Do you have that listed anywhere where anybody can access that?

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] Is it online or something?

[1236] Well, I may have a few.

[1237] You got it in your phone but I mean for for people listen to this conversation right now right that want to be as successful as you there's probably like a lot of people like come on jay tell me what you got they want to know about the books yeah oh my god man I mean that's there's uh there's so much in learning what the people that you admire were inspired by because I'm sure you're inspiring people with your work and the people that are inspired by you were like well what inspired him how did he how did he get all this juice how did he get all this motivation how did he get all this information yeah no that's true well we definitely can't leave out the word of god you know what i mean have you oh you've always been a very religious person i don't know if i would call it very religious but i always been a believer and uh the bible for example you know proverbs is one of my favorite uh chapters you know i've been able to to use proverbs which was written by king solomon the smartest man in the world that has you know when i used those principles i was able to compete with all the degrees in the world you know what i mean from a business perspective from a personal you know like a roadmap in my personal life just proverbs you know so it's different things like that that i was able to execute that uh you know made a major difference you got a list on your phone there yeah okay here's a few uh of course thinking grow rich compound effect the art and science or respect the passion test the master key system okay so all these books are essentially about success yeah yeah i don't like i don't really uh read a lot of fiction i don't have time to yeah i get it i'm trying to like like be better yeah so I'm always like chasing that that book that would add to you know what I already have one of the things that I read about you that was crazy was that there was a time where the feds had tried to take you out mm -hmm well you were a full story yeah yeah you were formulating a company with uh it was Shugnight and uh was it Erv Gotti You're of Gotti.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] And you and Shug Knight were formulating your own distribution company.

[1240] Right.

[1241] And what happened?

[1242] Well, my journey with them trying to take me out happened way before then.

[1243] Really?

[1244] Oh, yeah.

[1245] When did it start?

[1246] I would say it started back in the early 90s.

[1247] You know, I was, I remember, and here's what happened.

[1248] Here's what I believe with all of my heart.

[1249] You know, I'm a guy that made a transition.

[1250] from the streets to corporate America in my early 20s.

[1251] And I really believe that they saw greatness taking place with me. And I say that because, you know, as I started making my transition and start prospering, I start driving nicer cars.

[1252] You know what I mean?

[1253] I start, like, empowering ex -convicts in different things.

[1254] I built rap a lot.

[1255] We became the number one independent label for years.

[1256] you know with ex -convicts you know and it's something i put together you know and it was a i use a formula you know i told these guys okay you got to get that world up and i want it completely giving up if you're coming over here to deal with me because i understood that if you give up 99 % and hold on the one they'll take that one and destroy the 99 so with that understanding we was able to build a number one record label for years but it caused problems because they felt like I was money laundering.

[1257] It felt like a lot of things was taking place where my success was concerned and a lot of animosity buildup, which ultimately led to DEA coming involved in them trying to like take my very life.

[1258] But as, and we can talk about that part, but you're asking me about the Shug and Irv Gotti situation.

[1259] What we had done is had a meeting in L .A. and we were considering starting a black -owned distribution because we felt like it was a need for artists to come after us and we was trying to make a better way and a smoother way for them because even back then I saw where change was trying to take place in the industry and they wasn't going to allow.

[1260] I call it a conspiracy.

[1261] I saw the conspiracy taking place where they wasn't going to allow anymore.

[1262] master peas cash money erv goddice independent yeah independence they were like shedding that door yeah so you know in my mind I'm like okay I see the mood they make and let me counter this and create another avenue for the youth to come in after us and unfortunately I think they witnessed the same thing and they hit murder ink which is herb gotty company destroyed it.

[1263] They hit Shug Night, DeFro.

[1264] We know what happened with that.

[1265] And they came at me in a massive way, you know, all the way up to the point where they put a man on me that killed eight people.

[1266] And I really believe, you know, he was trying to kill me. And when you say they put a man on you, like in what way?

[1267] They assigned a guy by the name of Schumacher, you know, on me to arrest me to whatever he was supposed to do but he sent debt threats at me and here's a man that kill eight people you know I hired an investigator since they was investigating me I decided to hire an investigator to investigate them and that's when I found out this guy killed all of those people you know I brought the investigating report so you can look at it if you choose yeah you showed me all time.

[1268] Yeah.

[1269] So, you know, this was a real life situation that people may hear and think, you know, this is not true.

[1270] But here's confirmation of how true it was.

[1271] In 1999, you know, I reported this with the help of Congresswoman Maxine Waters, Janet Reno, because they intervened on my behalf because they saw what was happening.

[1272] And of course, they had a, what you call that, congressional hearing on me all of this is public information on congressional hearing where the DEA and you know it reminded me of the time when Clarence Thomas was being a hearing was taking place over his harassment or something then all of those people Democrat and Republicans was around you know what I mean had him in a circle so this is the conversation they was having concern in me James Prince and I'm watching this you know on on video I'm not invited but I'm watching them have this conversation about me about the congressional hearing and I'm just like wow you know these people want me pretty bad but a long story short you know they were able to speak up on my behalf and you know which ultimately oh it's so many connections to this because even Al Gore you know came in a portrait where they tried to set me up at my church with Al Gore.

[1273] Al Gore came to visit my church, you know, which when you're running for president, you visit a lot of black churches and stuff like that.

[1274] And my pastor wanted me to meet Al Gore that day.

[1275] So when I pull up, you know, I was married at the time, you know, I told my wife, I say, all these people ain't here with the president because I was watching body language you know I saw black glasses kind of look in my direction and she said oh come on boy you being leery you know them people not thinking about you or whatever so I went and heard the sermon and before the sermon was over I say let's go normally I hang around and socialize and of course pastor wanted me to meet Al Gore I decided to leave.

[1276] And shortly after the Dallas newspaper came out with a story and all of this you can confirm and look it up, James Prince donated a quarter million dollars to Al Gore at the church to stop an investigation on him.

[1277] Oh, man, just a bunch of BS.

[1278] It's unbelievable.

[1279] You know what I mean?

[1280] So I was being set up.

[1281] Oh, yeah.

[1282] It's documented.

[1283] So they created this fake story to make you look bad.

[1284] And they printed it in the news.

[1285] So it had to be coordinated at the very top.

[1286] Oh, yeah.

[1287] Wow.

[1288] What was that like?

[1289] To know they were conspiring against you like that.

[1290] You know.

[1291] First of all, you had to feel like, oh, shit.

[1292] I must have fucking made it.

[1293] Well, I didn't quite feel that I had made it.

[1294] I felt like they wanted to hit me. Yeah.

[1295] You know, because, like, this guy, one night I left my office and a DPS officer stopped me. He got behind me on the streets when I left out of the office, but he stopped me on the freeway.

[1296] And it was the first time I would stop one time to be told to go and stop again.

[1297] So he stopped me on the freeway and told me to go and pull in the McDonald's parking lot.

[1298] so i say oh okay so as i exit the freeway and looked over in the macdonald's parking lot it was dark and i saw a carry a cherry key jeep green and a cutlass and it was dark so i'm like nah i'm not pulling in that dark so i kind of told him i'm gonna pull in the shell station where the lights were so and i can hear him in the back pull fucking over on his on his thing make a right i'm like i'm gonna go over here so i went over there in the light i had some guys behind me following me because they had been sending me threats so i'm not stupid so i understood that you know i need to cover myself until i make it home and uh when i pull over you know the officer got out and he said why you didn't pull over like i told you i say sir i didn't want you to think i was trying to hurt you in that dog and i didn't want to think you was trying to hurt me what's the problem uh where where you were swerving i said no i say you got the wrong man i don't drink i don't smoke what no swerving going on with me well uh where are your guns right how do he even know i have guns i gave him my gun license i said say, well, how do you know?

[1299] I have guns.

[1300] I haven't even given you my license.

[1301] So I gave my license.

[1302] I say my hands on the steering wheel, my guns are under my seat.

[1303] Well, well, get out the car.

[1304] Get out.

[1305] I said, okay, I don't have a problem with that.

[1306] How much money you have?

[1307] I say, you want to borrow some money or something?

[1308] Why you ask me about my money?

[1309] So he told me go in the back of the car so i went back there and uh he went and searching my car you know he in there i see him like moving around with things but he went on the passenger side so i walk around i say man why are you violating my right searching my car and he jumped get back i'm looking for the gun i said i told you where the guns are clearly you then passed him up you got my clips out so anyway he came back and i could see him make an eye contact with the car with the people across the street and eventually one of them drove over and this was an officer by the name of chad scott he had like black paint under his eyes and an army fatigue type of a uniform and him and also you know translated some words and he came back to me and said okay you're free to go and gave me a warning ticket you know a warning ticket and It was then when I got home, I realized a bullet or two was missing.

[1310] So red flags like, yeah, like one up.

[1311] I'm like, damn, why would they keep one of my bullets?

[1312] Why were they trying to pull me in the dark?

[1313] This was before I knew, you know, Schumacher had killed eight people.

[1314] You know what I mean?

[1315] So, you know, I went home and that really caused me to, you know, want to protect myself and want to document why I wanted to protect.

[1316] So bizarre that they would take bullets too because without the rifling from your particular gun Like all it's establishing is the same round you use right doesn't mean anything yeah I didn't understand you know I just counted them and I'm like when you said that they were threatening you Like death threats like what kind of death how are you receiving these what they were doing And it's an investigative report people that worked for me you know I had a street team that would promote my records in different clubs at night.

[1317] What they had done was jumped on a couple guys.

[1318] They pulled them over.

[1319] They took them down to the station, stripped them naked, you know, jumped on them, took their jewelry, you know, all kinds of stuff, and send messages.

[1320] Let him know, you know, we're going to do this.

[1321] We're going to do this.

[1322] Which eventually, when I made my report, they end up finding the jury in different things that I reported that you know God told them these guys you got rogue cops I say y 'all put a hit man on me you got two road cops that's doing this and doing that and I'm in fear of my life you know I just wanted to be known because if a situation take place and I come out on top then I don't want nobody to be mad at me right because I'm going protect myself yeah yeah how long did this period of turmoil last because it seemed like that would be incredibly stressful well it went on for years years you know yeah even before the end they stopped me one night and they they planted a appeal on me called ecstasy you know and where they put it they put it here's what happened I was in the back seat first of all the police stopped me and this was an officer I had a run in with with a pistol case and I beat the pistol case so he stopped me on uh richmond one night and he was like well how did you beat that case and he knew it was me because i had rap line on my license plate how did you be i say man i don't really want to talk about that i said i'm trying to go to a party you know why are you stopping me so made me get out put me in the back of the police car kept me there you know talking to people for you know quite a a long time and he decided to take me off the main street to a side street and it was then where he took me out of one car and took me to another car with two more younger rookie officers and shortly after he came out with a pill in the back of the furris car look what we have here and I'm like you know when I seen that taking place I said to the two officers I say man I say I've been in here y 'all know he's no you're not trying to do that that's not look what we have here look what we have here and before i know it i was headed to the police station and they charged me with a peer call ecstasy and i immediately got out of jail took a test a drug test took a lie to take the test just to prove you know i had nothing to do with any of that so they tried to get me to cop out for probation and cop out i'm like no so the pill changed from exosite to a drant transact whatever that field is and it changed again it was constantly changing as they test the pill and they was basically trying to get me to cop out for something and i wouldn't and eventually the case was dismissed so how many years did all this go on for you said it went on for years how many years i would say 10 years 10 fucking yeah 10 years of better i was a target how did you calm during that time because that's got to be incredibly stressful yeah it was you know because like in the hood where I'm from you have to survive the guys that's in the hood because they're trying to get you you know wherever success is concerned they're trying to get you and the police that's supposed to be protecting me the ones I'm paying all these taxes to had became uh an enemy where they was trying to get me so it was very stressful but after so long I became immune to it it's almost like you know I had a made -up mind because I was on a journey to break the poverty curse where my family was concerned that was my whole drive I'm like I got to get my mother this house that she always wanted you know I come from the projects so I was dealing with a power that was greater than the power was from the streets and from the police.

[1323] And I was like, you know, no weapon form against me going to prosper.

[1324] So, you know, I had that mentality.

[1325] I wrapped it around spirituality.

[1326] And, you know, I said, if God be for me, the world could be against me. And, you know, it just became like a lifestyle dealing with them people.

[1327] So you just developed an immunity.

[1328] Yeah, I had to.

[1329] Like being around sick people.

[1330] exactly yeah yeah so the DEA was trying to pin a case on you about they figured there must be some money laundering going on because because you're from the hood because you're incredibly successful rap -a -out records is killing it yeah like there's got to be something else going on they probably can't help themselves they didn't think that you have the kind of discipline that you had yeah and they probably felt you kept one foot in the streets yeah yeah Step one foot in either the drug game or some kind of crime they can catch you on.

[1331] So here's what they ultimately done, though.

[1332] And, you know, of course, you know, I had ex -convicts and different things working for me. So what they actually done was they got a female that was spending money with one of my groups, now with two or three of my groups, bringing them to New Orleans.

[1333] and different things to do different concerts.

[1334] And this particular female in updating one of my guys that was working for me. And she was a fat.

[1335] She was a snitch.

[1336] And she was trying to work out off a situation.

[1337] So she's spending money with him.

[1338] She's giving sex to him.

[1339] And which ultimately led to her setting up a situation where she told him, oh, I have these two college guys that's coming in town.

[1340] and they have a hundred and some thousand dollars now all you have to do i'm going to take them to pop of those and all you have to do is get the key off of the tire of my vehicle and go to the room and get the bag and go free it's a hundred and some thousand dollars in it so my guy that worked for me bid on that but he bit on it in a manner where he sent someone else because he wasn't really hip to conspiracy right so he sent somebody else a guy that's like a nobody you know he sent him to go get it but in the process of him sending he was with me this was a guy that was with me it's almost like an angel send me to pick him up and take him to a restaurant and you know when I read the transcripts they had in a conversation and he couldn't talk to her because he was around me and he told her that you know i'm around i'm around the homie you know i can't talk right now why are you with him this is what she's saying you know we're supposed to be handling this business so that conversation is one of the reasons why they couldn't get me he couldn't even have a conversation around me other than that they would have made it appear like i was involved so clearly you weren't involved no real clearly because of those words you know so but they was able to penetrate the system by you know getting him and another guy because they bit on that situation and when they got that bag it was drugs in that bag you know they put kilos in that bag even though she told them it was going to be money the feds have a way of doing what they want to do and they was able to stick you know so they basically take kilos from like when they bust someone for drugs they take that shit and then they use it as evidence and then they use it to set somebody up yeah yeah yeah It should be illegal the way they've done that.

[1341] You know what I mean?

[1342] For sure, it's entrapment.

[1343] Yeah, it's entrapment.

[1344] And what happened was the same guy that participated in that, Chad Scott, if you look up what happened to him a year or two ago, he got arrested for doing these very same things, you know, a year to a little.

[1345] So he's been doing it for a long fucking time if he just got caught.

[1346] Think about the lives that he destroyed.

[1347] You know, think about the people that is doing years, you know, almost life sentences because of what he'd been doing.

[1348] Well, it's the darkest part of our criminal justice system.

[1349] It's one of the things that I've talked to Josh Dubin about and Jason Flom when he was on here, this nonviolent drug offenses.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] This long history of putting people in jail for nonviolent drug offenses.

[1352] And these people are still in jail.

[1353] There's people in Colorado right now that are in jail for marijuana possession, and they can look out their prison window and see legal marijuana grow operations while they're in jail for marijuana possession and marijuana sales.

[1354] It's crazy.

[1355] No, it's crazy, you know, and it's a racist system, and, you know, I hope someday, like, real soon it changed.

[1356] You know what I mean?

[1357] They're using people like human batteries.

[1358] to generate income because these prisons are all for profit.

[1359] They're private prisons for profit, there's an extraordinary amount of them.

[1360] And they're incentivized to get more people in jail.

[1361] So they use lobbyists to make sure that drug laws stay the same or even stricter.

[1362] They keep those prisons filled and they generate income from those prisons.

[1363] They use human beings.

[1364] Oh, yeah.

[1365] They get caught up in that trap literally as batteries.

[1366] They're like batteries to make money.

[1367] Or legal slavery.

[1368] Legal slavery.

[1369] And we think it's over.

[1370] You know what I mean?

[1371] Well, it's the darkest shit of all time.

[1372] It's like there's no concern whatsoever for where these people came from.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] The situation that they faced, the obstacles that they overcame, and then the fact that they get set up.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] That some of them are getting set up like this and they're getting set up.

[1377] up by people that are being paid in tax dollars yeah it's insanity yeah it's insane and in the future history when they look back at us today these times and these things yeah whatever is honestly discussed and told it'll be a shame it'll be shameful people people people will be embarrassed by who we are today yeah no no I agree you know and I gave the analogy like with my guys it was almost like can you imagine like rehabilitating drug users that's going to a class where where they are rehabilitating class and the very officers that we pay our tax to are circling around that class where they are to try to give them cocaine to like get them to relapse that's what was happening yeah I suppose happening because one of the things that I described all the time when it comes to the police is that you have to recognize that cops are playing a game and when you're playing a game the game is arrest a person make the charge stick it doesn't seem like a game because it's there's laws and there's perpetrators and there's you know violent offenders there's all these different things that they like to call people and different scenarios but at the end of the day if you're an officer you you have a mandate.

[1378] Your mandate is to arrest people and to make charges stick.

[1379] So it becomes like a game.

[1380] That's why prosecuting attorneys, they hide evidence that they know will exonerate the person.

[1381] They lie to defense attorneys.

[1382] They withhold information.

[1383] They do this on purpose because they want to win that game.

[1384] Because if you can win that game and get more convictions, their career will escalate.

[1385] So we've set it up in this way where you're incentivizing people to cheat, to steal, to become a criminal in support of law enforcement.

[1386] Man, you couldn't have said it better.

[1387] You know what I mean?

[1388] That's the reward.

[1389] That's your reward.

[1390] You have to do these things to be rewarded to grow.

[1391] It's crazy.

[1392] It's crazy.

[1393] It's crazy that we accept that.

[1394] It's crazy.

[1395] It's crazy that you can withhold information that you know will exonerate a defendant and you don't get tried with a crime yeah they don't they they get they're scot -free they skate everybody just sweeps it under the rug yeah it's all nothing and that's the pain that we feel you know in our communities yeah a lot of people want to know why you know people act and do certain things you know we become victims of these type of uh this type of hate you know what I mean where because it's not that one person that's doing that time it's the whole family right his kids and everybody yeah and it become a thing that we feel so deeply you know what i mean where it really like it really affects us in a way man well a lot of people get stuck and they start expressing it through hate yes stuck is the best term yeah and it uh it exacerbates and encourages this feeling of helplessness yeah that doesn't give you an option to get out.

[1396] And even if it's not the grand plan, if there's not, like, I'd like to look at conspiracy theories or any conspiracy on a step -by -step basis.

[1397] And I think a lot of it is just the system itself, the way it's set up.

[1398] And I don't think these cops are involved in this grand conspiracy, but in a way they are, because what they're doing, whether they know it or not, is encouraging this feeling of helplessness.

[1399] Because they know that these cops aren't looking out for everybody.

[1400] They're not looking out for you.

[1401] They want to arrest you.

[1402] All their job is to get as many people arrested as possible.

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] And a few cops figure their way through it and maintain a good reputation and good cops, but those in a lot of cases are the exception.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] And what I witness, and I can't call them good, but what I witness is, like, I believe it's some good cops out there.

[1407] But as I do I. Yeah.

[1408] But, but, but, but, but, but, the, Those that witness, and I witness so many, I'm turning their head, you know, when they see corruption going on.

[1409] To me, they are corrupt, just as corrupt as the one that's doing it.

[1410] And a lot of them do that.

[1411] A lot of them do that.

[1412] It's the culture.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] That's, you know, the code of silence.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] And that's the culture of law enforcement.

[1417] It's deeply, deeply unfortunate.

[1418] You know, when you see the Floyd Mayweath, or the, excuse me, George Floyd death, when he, when that cop is leaning on his neck and the other cops are just standing around, that's the code of silence.

[1419] Oh, yeah.

[1420] They're allowing it to happen.

[1421] They know that dude's been on that guy's neck for eight fucking minutes and they're just standing there.

[1422] They know.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] But that is, they're all in it together.

[1425] And a lot of times they feel like they have to stand together because the department doesn't defend them.

[1426] Internal Affairs is always looking to bring them down too.

[1427] Yeah.

[1428] And their job is to go out and get people.

[1429] And they get together and they tell themselves, the only people you can trust are other cops and we've got to stick together.

[1430] And these are the rules.

[1431] And you're a young cop.

[1432] If you get involved in that, you realize early on, like your ideas of like law enforcement being this beautiful thing that's out there to protect communities and like, no, no, no, no, it's a game.

[1433] Yeah.

[1434] It's a game.

[1435] The game is you got to arrest people.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] You got to lie about how fast people are going.

[1438] You got to plant drugs in someone's car.

[1439] true it's true and and they've been playing that game for so long forever it just happened to catch you know george floyd on on camera because of social media and they're catching so many things but because of a 17 year old girl yeah one 17 year old girl who's on the scene who happened to be filming it with her phone yeah well for example like this d a x d a agent shoemaker you know eight people that has been killed by his hands you know when we interviewed his lieutenant who had retired, he said he always questioned all of those murders that this guy had done because he would lie.

[1440] His story would change.

[1441] You know, I had investigated that actually interviewed this guy.

[1442] So I bought to the table concrete evidence such as that, you know, and when I was there talking to the head guys who wanted to know why I was accusing the DEA agent as being a hitman.

[1443] I'm like, well, give me a better name for him because it was totally unnatural for any officer to use his gun that many times, and it was no problem.

[1444] So they just accepted that it was a part of the job.

[1445] Oh, yeah.

[1446] How did you get this guy off you?

[1447] Well, eventually what happened was after I came back from Washington, D .C., Somebody was wise enough to, well, what they'd done was they went and searched his desk in his locker, him and Chad Scott.

[1448] And they found evidence that I had told them about, such as a rapelot piece, the jewelry and different things like that.

[1449] They were planning.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] They had took this and kept it.

[1452] So they put them on desk yard.

[1453] They reprimanded it and put them on a desk job.

[1454] And they decided that they didn't want to see he and I run into one another on the streets after I had, you know, documented that I was in fear of my life.

[1455] So that would have looked worse for them than anything.

[1456] So they moved him.

[1457] Matter of fact, he's out here somewhere the owner of a gun store now.

[1458] Retired.

[1459] Oh, my God.

[1460] that's crazy so you know that's crazy but his other guy his other sidekick is on his way to prison he was found guilty of uh doing the same stuff he never stopped he was a younger guy so he just they moved him to louisanna and he just picked up the ball and started doing everything he was doing in houston and in texas in louisna and they caught up with it there's a guy named michael dowd who's been on my podcast before he is uh One of the people that was featured in a documentary about a corrupt police precinct called the 7 -5 in New York City, it's an amazing documentary.

[1461] And he came in and talked to me about it on the podcast, but literally his first day on the job, he watched cops murder somebody.

[1462] And they were told, you know, he was told, shut your fucking mouth.

[1463] Like, this is what we do.

[1464] Like, you're a cop now.

[1465] Like, keep your fucking mouth shut.

[1466] And he became a guy who was robbing drug dealer.

[1467] selling drugs, protecting drug dealers, setting up hits.

[1468] I mean, it's madness.

[1469] That's what these guys was doing.

[1470] The same thing.

[1471] It happens.

[1472] Different toilet.

[1473] Yeah.

[1474] It happens.

[1475] It's crazy.

[1476] It's crazy.

[1477] It's crazy that those are the people that we think of as the good guys.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] And so a guy like you who legitimately is trying to escape that life, you get set up with Al Gore.

[1481] the guy was running for president you get DEA hitman coming after you trying to set you up like it's amazing that you maintain your calm through all this that you've you've gotten through it without being insanely paranoid yeah and I may be paranoid to a certain extent you might be right it might not be paranoid You might just be aware.

[1482] You know, it definitely was a situation that I feel scarred me to a certain extent.

[1483] You know, there's no doubt about it.

[1484] Definitely, I'm in a peaceful, more peaceful spot today.

[1485] But in the midst of that journey and that war, you know, it's like every day you feel like in your mind you're legal and you're doing what's right, your law abiding citizen.

[1486] and but the reality was you damn if you do if you do it this way you damn if you you know what I mean I couldn't like figure it out but I still chose to stay on the side of right you know what I mean I refuse to allow them to set me up or get me in darkness and I understood that darkness you know if I campaign in darkness I'm gonna get elected in darkness So, yeah, you know.

[1487] Well, it's very admirable.

[1488] It really is because there's this, when you have this system that is, they're unsupportive of people escaping the life.

[1489] They want to keep you connected in some way, shape, or form to crime.

[1490] They never want to think, well, here's this inspirational person that not only has escaped, but maybe we'll offer a beacon of light to other young dudes who are in that life who want to escape a man who has become extremely successful look look what he does look what he does he reads he hustles he's disciplined and you can do this too and he has escaped the life yeah instead of that yeah they look at you like a hoop they're trying to throw a ball through they're just trying to score yeah it was I got respect from a whole different generation of police officers.

[1491] Now, the younger police officers today, like now, I would ride through the hood and I would get stopped and get harassed.

[1492] Now they'll stop me and want to autograph because, you know, you asked me how this shift took place.

[1493] I could only, I would only say, I guess I survived a storm.

[1494] You know what I mean?

[1495] And they're able to see that I was able to like inspire generations to come.

[1496] I really feel that high powers recognize thinkers, people that know how to think, you know, like those that came before me, you know, Martin Luther King, all the people, they destroyed because they saw a movement taking place that they didn't like.

[1497] I know I had a movement taking place and it's evidence that I had that movement taking place today, you know, because of South or who they are because of the foundation I laid.

[1498] And, you know, I had all this, I mean, CEOs like cash money, like Master P, Tony Draper, you know, Swisher House, Jay -Z, all of them watching my movement at Ground Zero, which inspired them to, you know, to come to fruition with their movements.

[1499] So I think these guys saw that being bred in them.

[1500] They know when they hop, the people in power know when they see the truth at work.

[1501] And a lot of times they assign people to destroy that before it come to fruition.

[1502] And I think that was their assignment where I was concerned.

[1503] It is interesting, though, that over the test of time, your true character has emerged and that people understand who you actually are and that the young cops they actually like you now it's a total role reversal yeah yeah that was surprising to me you know where you know because i was used to being racially profiled all the time because you know i ride clean i like nice cars you know and uh to be stopped like all the time without doing anything was uh i had to get used to that you know what I mean I had to like okay this is like going to be a lifestyle like I brush my teeth every day you know what I mean this is just going to happen even though you know I took a stand and and I always voiced it on the hip hop records that was one of my relief podiums where you know doing the ghetto boys I would get on the intros and and put the spotlight on all the the things they was doing to us because I knew It was happening all around the world and ghettos all around the world.

[1504] And the people love me for, you know, expressing the pain that we all was feeling and what they were doing to all of us where the laws were being broken.

[1505] And to this day, you know, they love me for that.

[1506] Well, I think your message is very important.

[1507] I think your message of discipline and of character and of how you succeeded.

[1508] and how you've succeeded by following those principles, it's so important for people.

[1509] And I think it's one of the most important things for someone who's stuck in poverty, wanting to figure out a way to be a person like you, to see that you've laid out these ground rules that you follow, to see that you've laid out these steps that you've taken, and to see that you've done it all in a book.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] And encourage people to not just read this book, but read the books that inspired you.

[1512] right to get to the position that you're at yeah it's it's so valuable it's the best way to give back i mean you can give back in a lot of ways and they're all great but one of the best ways to give back is with honesty and with with your you're just you've learned some things and people can learn those things through you yeah so valuable right and that's my goal that's my goal to uh leave that with them i know when i'm you know when i cross over in heaven you know this book will still be here yeah the blueprint you know the blueprint of uh you know my business life and my personal life on how i was able to you know conquer you know the odds and different things that was set up against me did you do an audiobook yes i love audiobooks yeah me too that's the only that's how i do it right now it's my favorite way because i'm in traffic i'm driving around and i can get those books yeah man i love audio it's a big deal for me me man in the sauna at the gym audiobooks it just makes regular time educational you get something in yeah and I'm reading it so I'm not a speed reader beautiful just like I'm speaking I love when people read their own books I hate when someone else reads it yeah have you had some dorky actor your book you know like respect it was the fall of 1988 and I'm sitting the fuck out of here right imagine that I've imagined.

[1513] I've read it.

[1514] I've seen it rather.

[1515] Listen to it.

[1516] It's terrible.

[1517] It's terrible.

[1518] My fans would be disappointed.

[1519] Oh, devastated.

[1520] Yeah.

[1521] They would rather hear me struggle with the reading than...

[1522] No, well, you have such a distinctive voice, too.

[1523] I think it's very important to people, especially when it's an autobiography.

[1524] Read your own books.

[1525] The only person that should never read his own books is Stephen King.

[1526] Stephen King is a great writer, but it's terrible at reading his books.

[1527] But he's...

[1528] There was a fiction.

[1529] You know, you need an actor to read those fiction books.

[1530] Right.

[1531] It's a different jam.

[1532] It's a different thing.

[1533] One of your things that I know that you are very passionate about is raising up the South.

[1534] Right.

[1535] That means a lot to you.

[1536] Why is that?

[1537] Because in the beginning, I had to, like, blaze a trail.

[1538] You know, it was a struggle.

[1539] You know, New Yorkers was dominating.

[1540] Our airways, they was dominating.

[1541] dominating all the DJ spots, the clubs, you know, they was relentless with their hustle.

[1542] I give them credit, you know what I mean?

[1543] And they was like spreading their troops everywhere, you know what I mean?

[1544] So with me having to like make them believers and change that situation, I'm a little more passionate about the journey than most because I understood how we got booed and when we went to New York.

[1545] and you know they just didn't they felt like we was too country they wouldn't play our records you know i go to them and you know plead with them you know do this do that and it came to a situation where i stopped asking you know what i mean i stopped asking and i had to figure out a way to uh run them out of my city yeah just it's point blank you know yeah and uh that's what brought about change in Houston is, you know, because my thing was, give us a chance.

[1546] If the people don't like us, then that's acceptable.

[1547] But not giving us a chance and you know playing New York music and acting like as if we not in part of, you know, our people are not special.

[1548] You know, we can't have that.

[1549] Well, the ghetto boy sound was so aggressive and so good and it put Fifth Ward on the map.

[1550] I mean, people started talking about Fifth Ward after the ghetto boys came out and when like we can't be stopped and do it like a geo like there was there were songs that were undeniable they were undeniable yeah and it just like everybody was like i don't know fuck what you say that's that's a good goddamn record right you know it's like it just was undeniable yeah being undeniable at the end of the day and i i think that's also what's happened with you with these the young cops that appreciate and respect you now it's like it's undeniable yeah over time yeah your true nature gets exposed you know you can get slandered and attacked and they go after you and try to arrest you and all these different things but you survived all that right and over time your true nature is exposed yeah yeah yeah we wrote this song the ghetto boy song called we can't be stopped yeah and i think we named the album we can't be stopped yeah and that's because we was going through that struggle you know what i mean with all the enemies trying to stop us they was doing all kinds of things to try and stop us and you know we were in a mind frame and like -minded you know sometimes i think i made their heart of skip a beat with some of the decisions i made but uh at the end of the day when they saw fruit bear for taking their stand and they became more of a believer where that was concerned every army needs a great general yeah yeah and sometimes those decisions have to be made true well it all worked out clearly you know i mean it really did when you look back on your legacy i mean obviously you look to the future um and you continue to to move forward but as you look back you've got to be happy with what you've done particularly with uh with with the rap industry oh yeah most definitely i'm i'm very proud of what a salt's staying today you know one of my favorite quote quote quote a lot of times and you kind of get under the skin of my East Coast and West Coast homies, but I tell them the East Coast a piece of bread, the West Coast a piece of bread, and down south we're the meat.

[1551] Y 'all can't have a sandwich without us.

[1552] It's so funny to me how people just get so caught up in East Coast and West Coast because it really only happened in rap.

[1553] It never happened with rock and roll.

[1554] Right.

[1555] You know, it never happened with sports.

[1556] I mean, it did a little bit with sports in some teams, But the big thing with rap music was always East Coast versus West Coast until you guys came around.

[1557] Right.

[1558] Yeah.

[1559] I'm like really familiar with that beef.

[1560] I wrote about it in my book of how me and Puffy, you know, had a meeting and they wanted me to mediate a meeting where him and shook was concerned.

[1561] You know, that was after Tupac.

[1562] and all of these people, you know, had got killed.

[1563] And it was something that I wanted to do, but I couldn't really get, you know, between it because, you know, things just didn't add up properly.

[1564] And I don't believe in stepping in between something when I don't have all the information.

[1565] Yeah.

[1566] That's got to be extremely difficult, right?

[1567] You were in the middle of, like, a legitimate war where two of the all -time greats, Yeah, we're murdered.

[1568] Yeah, I was asked to be in the middle of it.

[1569] And after Tupac was murdered, one of the things I'd done was I heard Puffy and Biggie was in L .A. shooting a video.

[1570] So I was on my tour bus and I turned it all the way around.

[1571] I think I was close to Phoenix.

[1572] And I turned it around just to go and have a conversation with Biggie and Puffy to alert them that they were in a. a place that i didn't feel that they should have been in and you know i went there and had a conversation with both of them just to kind of put them on notice that you know this ain't the place to be right now and that was before biggie was killed yeah how long before it was i think a few weeks think a few weeks before and uh you know sometimes and i know puff it meant well And I know Biggie mean well, sometimes a lot of individuals are what I call surface deep where the streets are concerned, which simply mean you don't, you understand them to a certain depth.

[1573] You know what I mean?

[1574] But I understood that that wasn't definitely L .A. That wasn't a good place to be because my ears was to the street and, you know, I just wanted to echo it.

[1575] It was on my spirit to let them know, and I did.

[1576] And unfortunately, you know, it didn't save him, but everybody can learn from those mistakes moving forward.

[1577] Yeah, it's a devastating loss.

[1578] The both of them.

[1579] Yeah.

[1580] I mean, what they left behind, you know, to this day.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] If you got Mount Rushmore of hip -hop, those two dudes are on there.

[1583] Right.

[1584] There's no doubt about it.

[1585] two brilliant guys brilliant yeah there's a video of biggie on the street that i watch all the time when he was 17 years old a piece of paper in his hand with his lyrics yeah wrapping his ass off it's 17 years old yeah it's incredible when you watch the video he's like what talent yeah what power that dude had yeah just vocal power yeah you know yeah and tupac was the same way Them guys, man, you know, two geniuses, you know, that never really fully came to fruition.

[1586] That's the saddest thing about true genius.

[1587] If you look at all the people, whether it's Hendricks or Jim Morrison or Tupac or Biggie, they all died young, man. Yeah.

[1588] Janice Joplin.

[1589] We still, to this day, can go back and look at their stuff, but they all died young.

[1590] It's true.

[1591] Yeah, that's true.

[1592] It's a weird world we live in, my friend.

[1593] Oh, yeah.

[1594] But I think that the world gets less weird when someone like you is made through all the hoops and ladders and gotten to a point where you can kind of let people know what you've been through.

[1595] Right.

[1596] Right.

[1597] I think it's very powerful.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] No, it definitely is.

[1601] I'm what one would call a testimony.

[1602] Yeah.

[1603] And, you know, I try to be a voice of inspiration.

[1604] hope for my beginning with my community.

[1605] You know what I mean?

[1606] I'm a person that, you know, stay in contact with where my community is concerned.

[1607] You know, that's why I built the recreation center, the boxing gym, a school, you know, because I never wanted to be one of those people that disowned where I was from.

[1608] And that's, that's what law enforcement was trying to get me to do.

[1609] you know i would have conversations with them guys when they would stop me and pull me over why don't you just leave you made it why do you come you know what i mean in other words go away you know and they had a problem with me uplifting you know it's an interesting thing when you may they would see a guy that was on the corner selling drugs uh transition to hip hop whether it was from rapping or working through hip hop and now that guy is driving a Mercedes now he's driving something totally different and that would anger a lot of the officers who wasn't getting paid that kind of money so that he become like a big target from what he'd done in the past they never let that go yeah that's that envy of being a police officer that's getting paid a shitty salary watching some dude who you know used to break the law yeah and now he's bawling out of control it's a cold thing man it's a cold thing and they hate that man they like recognize the limitations of your profession yeah you can't they'd be like you can't change you're doing the same thing it's no way you can change there's no way i'm going to allow you to change if i can help it that's an anti -human sentiment yeah that a person can't change that's a that's one of the the worst things you can say to a person because all of us are inspired by people who do change yeah and what's even worse is locking a man up so long where you don't give him an opportunity yeah to change because it's a lot of brothers that evolve behind walls you know what I mean and it's way less years than they have to serve they actually get it and snap into okay I got it now I got the I got the message I got the lesson yeah and uh you know the way this system is built is really unforgiving, you know.

[1610] And, you know, like the brother, you know, our brother Larry Hoover right now, for example.

[1611] You know, he's a brother that I know has changed inside.

[1612] But whether they want to give him the opportunity to, you know, be free and execute, you know, the wisdom and the change that has taken place in him and a lot of other political prisoners, you know i i think the system is uh is just it's crazy that is so unforgiving it's it's thoughtless there's no thought put into rehabilitating this the the amount of people they get actually rehabilitated in prison yeah is minuscule and it's usually through self -determination like they decide that they're going to rehabilitate themselves the comprehensive program of changing a person educating them as to what happened to them and how they can benefit society if they can get through this.

[1613] Right.

[1614] And they can teach other people that have also fallen in the same pitfalls, hey, you can get through this too.

[1615] Like, you don't have to be who you are right now.

[1616] Who you are right now is who you are because of circumstance and because of life and bad luck and bad decisions, but that doesn't mean that's who you are forever.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] And there's no rehabilitation.

[1619] The real effort to rehabilitate people is non -existent.

[1620] There's some people that get rehabilitated through prison.

[1621] whether it's through the negative reinforcement of they never want to be locked up in a cage again or through other people that they meet inside the jail or through books they read inside the jail but there's no real comprehensive effort to change people and help people and educate people the thought of being like lost and hopeless then the the idea that a person can't change that's the most non -human idea ever because the best people all change When you're young, hopefully the foolish shit that you do when you're 10, you're not going to do when you're 20.

[1622] The dumb shit you do when you're 20, you're not going to do when you're 30.

[1623] You're going to learn from every step of the way.

[1624] Everyone changes.

[1625] Oh, yeah.

[1626] The driving force behind that is racism.

[1627] You know what I mean?

[1628] It was the same with the slaves.

[1629] You know, they never wanted to teach them.

[1630] They never wanted to see them evolve.

[1631] They only wanted them to be a slave.

[1632] and you know to me that's the mechanism of the system right now where you know the inmates a lot of them are concerned of course you know there are some that you know may deserve different things but this thing where drugs is concerned this whole non -violent situation that they got going on is it's racist as it gets it's disgusting Yeah.

[1633] Imagine a university where no one graduated any smarter.

[1634] Wow.

[1635] It wouldn't exist.

[1636] They wouldn't allow it to happen.

[1637] It wouldn't exist.

[1638] Yeah.

[1639] So there's got to be a thought in your head that a prison system where almost no one graduates and leaves rehabilitated.

[1640] That's a hell of an analogy you just gave.

[1641] You know what I mean?

[1642] a university where no one evolved, they got smarter.

[1643] You would say, okay, whoever set this shit up, you fucked up.

[1644] This is terrible.

[1645] This is poorly designed, terribly executed, and you would look at the motivations.

[1646] Like, are you guys making money off of this?

[1647] And no one is getting...

[1648] Are you really protecting society by making people better criminals, locking them up for 10 years, then releasing them again?

[1649] Are you really?

[1650] I don't think you are.

[1651] I think you failed.

[1652] The whole system is a failure.

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] yeah true statement yeah and and where the colleges are concerned they never would allow that because that's their loved ones yes you know what I mean that's the difference right yeah that is a difference right yeah it's weird this because like criminal justice reform just gets sort of like cursory mentioned by politicians it's a cold game they got going on man and that's that's what uh you know one of the reasons uh i call myself a republicrat you know what i mean it's hard for me to uh just jump on a bandwagon when i see these different mixed signals going on where you know my people are concerned you know and i'd be looking for one that will stand up and not twist when he walk you know what i mean stand up and be a real man and authentic with the movement and it's hard to to see them people in this game that I watch you know it's just it's hard there's always you know some some some some uh some things going on that's under the radar there's so many influences by the time these people get into any position of power they're so compromised that they got to kind of follow the steps that laid out for them no one really ever says hey look at this let's look at this and let's lay it out because this is a terrible terrible place this is a terrible scenario we have a criminal justice it's terrible let's look at how many people that are wrongfully convicted let's how many how many people that are executed were innocent let's look at how many people that have been railroaded by corrupt prosecuting attorneys look at how many people who've been just stuck in jail for no fault their own it's crazy no it's a lot of them and it's crazy that a guy like you who gets through but it's beautiful that now you're celebrated you know but it's crazy but it makes sense i mean in in their little game of trying to arrest people like this dude still going to the hood even though now he's wealthy and successful why is he still doing that he's setting up these community centers and boxing gems the fuck out of here he's trying to make some money he's doing something he's laundering money and they have this cynical perspective instead of having the perspective like that guy we should have him talk to other kids we should let everybody know like this is possible right everybody who is down on their luck who's not doing well was in a bad situation you can look to the people that escaped and then profited and then thrived and then became incredibly successful that that should be your motivation that should be your blueprint you know no it is and their blueprint a lot of the times is just like you say let's figure out how to destroy him let's let's go every three -letter word you know r s d a d a fbi i p h cia yeah all of them let's let them let them let them let's put something together yeah to destroy him you know especially when you become real profitable yeah especially when you're rolling around a beautiful cars living in a beautiful house and what why the owl you have this beautiful owl chain why owls this is this is drake symbol yeah oh okay yeah this is drake you know my son discovered drake so really yeah my son jazz prince wow we brought drake to the united states and uh that's how he got started well that makes sense yeah why is drake in owls well i think owls is a powerful symbol you know You know what I mean?

[1655] It's a lot of strength where owls are concerned.

[1656] You know, I like eagles.

[1657] I like Eagles, too.

[1658] You know, but you know, these owls are some strong.

[1659] And they fuck people up at night.

[1660] You know, they fuck up birds at night.

[1661] One of my favorite videos of these hawks sitting in a nest at night.

[1662] Some owl swoops in out of the darkness and snatches one of them.

[1663] Yeah.

[1664] Yeah, no, they're cold -blooded at night.

[1665] Yeah, we have this idea about them, but they're like these wise creatures that are like, you know.

[1666] yeah thoughtfully looking over the way no they're out there fucking up rabbits and killing everything they can owls are vicious man they are vicious predators yeah and drake you know this is his this is his this is his brand you know maybe i can get him to explain to you what's really behind bring them bring them in i love to talk to them listen brother i appreciate you very much man and i want everybody to know that the art and science of respect it's out right now you can get it, you get it in book form, you can get it in audio form, loyalty, your wine, this cabinet is fantastic, it's delicious, and I can't wait to try your champagne and your Merlo and thanks for coming in here, man. Appreciate it.

[1667] Thank you.

[1668] Thank you very much, brother.

[1669] Thank you.

[1670] Goodbye, everybody.