301 - A Place For Moms

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hard Star.

[4] Thank you.

[5] That's Karen Kalgarov.

[6] You're welcome.

[7] This is a podcast, true crime comedy.

[8] Are you ready for it?

[9] Your dad is mad about it.

[10] Your mom is making that face again.

[11] Well, this is your life, friend.

[12] Your life.

[13] That's right.

[14] You live it the best you can.

[15] You listen to whatever you want.

[16] Your little earbuds.

[17] Everybody else is talking.

[18] Their mouths are just moving.

[19] Yeah.

[20] You're listening to us.

[21] Yeah.

[22] Be like my puppy and have selective listening.

[23] That's right.

[24] That's the way to be in this world.

[25] You know, I'm training my kitten, the cat, the kitten, Moses, training, like sit, stay, paw.

[26] How's that working out?

[27] It seems to be working, but I could be making that up.

[28] That could be a creation.

[29] It could just be me. What's your approach to kitten training?

[30] Treats.

[31] Lots of lots of treats.

[32] I honestly think it's working.

[33] I think all animals are food motivated.

[34] Yes.

[35] I am myself included.

[36] You and I For example.

[37] If someone was like, Karen, go for a walk, and then they just held out like those mac and cheese balls that we had at that restaurant together.

[38] Yes.

[39] Right?

[40] You'd follow somebody anywhere.

[41] Well, that's kind of what I do when I'm working out is because you're doing this, I think to myself, you get to eat whatever you want tonight.

[42] Perfect.

[43] I honestly do.

[44] Or when I was smoking, it would be like, get through this and you can have a cigarette, which is not.

[45] that's the inverse of the first plan that's right yeah so I quit smoking but now I get to eat whatever I fucking want hey congratulations what are you doing to exercise I did Pilates the other day how was it I hate it I love it it was great my body felt great but the machines you know those Pilates I like floor Pilates or bar whatever but the machines scare the shit out of me the reformer I have no balance so I would just get scared everyone moves so fast I could tell it was being judged always well it's Los Angeles.

[46] I mean, don't show up to.

[47] Blahislaus if you don't want to get judged.

[48] That's what you're supposed to.

[49] That's what I used to love about like when I went to Golden Bridge a couple times with my friends.

[50] And there were people that would get there like 20 minutes early in line up and sit in the front row.

[51] Oh, yeah.

[52] So that the teacher would look right at them and stuff where I was just like, this is, I just have never been into this type of community before.

[53] Yeah.

[54] The comedy.

[55] Yoga community?

[56] Well, or just any kind of like get there 20 minutes early to try to make eye contact with the leader.

[57] But it's not only that, the people who sit in the front want to show everyone behind them how to, like they want to be like, well, I know what I'm doing.

[58] It's like this whole thing, whole headspace thing.

[59] Or it could be people who are like, I don't want to watch the back of other people of what I'm doing yoga.

[60] I want them to watch me. Yeah.

[61] I don't sit in there.

[62] I do like a medium back to the side with a wall next to me because I. I have no balance, so I need to fall against something.

[63] And that's it.

[64] I mean, it just, I feel like of all the things to classes to take and the things to be doing with yourself, being super competitive in yoga is a little bit against the point of what the great, most of the great gurus want you to really be thinking about.

[65] Leave it to Los Angeles to just take a really beautiful spiritual practice and then pervert it.

[66] to the degree where you might as well be at Warner Brothers auditioning for Arrow or some shit like that.

[67] That reminds me when I did a hot yoga class recently, Bragg, the dude next to me, and you know, people wear like not a lot of clothes because it's really fucking hot, whatever.

[68] But the guy next to me had on like boxer briefs, like he had his underwear on.

[69] Yeah.

[70] No. He was like, I saw his butt crack.

[71] It was like, yeah, that's what he was there for.

[72] Oh, it was like, why do I have to be next to this?

[73] That's the agreement.

[74] also why can't he just yeah why can't he just take shorts any other piece of clothing shorts other than underwear although you know I'm sure that he would if he could argue it in a court of law yeah you'd just be like well isn't that your bra no isn't that your I mean if I had like a fucking triangle like lacy bra on fair I had a sports bra which everyone knows is the least sexy bra in the world yeah sport you're not trying to attract anybody when you're flattening the gals down to try to get some exercise out right not get hit in the chin oh i wish i could get hit in the chin with these things uh so that's a fitness corner great job um well speaking of which frank and i took a walk the other morning this is i was laughing so hard at surprise at myself because i came around a corner and there was a guy walking out of of the driveway.

[75] And of course, I had my earbuds in listening to another podcast.

[76] And so this guy kind of walked out into the street and was looking at Frank and smiling.

[77] So I take my earbuds out and he's like, who's this little guy?

[78] And I'm like, that's Frank.

[79] And we start to kind of chit -chat.

[80] He said, do you live in this neighborhood?

[81] And I said, yeah, up the hill.

[82] And then I proceeded to describe the front of my house.

[83] I don't because, and then.

[84] Were you trying to convince you?

[85] him that you weren't just so interloper?

[86] Probably.

[87] Deep down, probably.

[88] But then I was like, and then I kind of went, oh, do you live here?

[89] And then he goes, I do some work for, like, he did two names, Janet and Marty, basically.

[90] And I was just like, but he just kind of gestured.

[91] And I was just like, holy shit.

[92] I just walked up to a dude that was walking on my street randomly and was like, oh, look for me. I'm up at that house up the street.

[93] And then I just couldn't stop thinking about it where I'm like, I get on this fucking podcast on my high horse with the waving my finger about don't do this and don't do that.

[94] And the second I'm out of my own house, I'm just like, what's up, stranger?

[95] Now listen to me. Describe my home.

[96] And here's the keypad number to get into my house.

[97] But the good, the thing is, you have an enormous dog with you.

[98] So he's not enormous.

[99] He looks into me. He's like the sweetest baby.

[100] But he's mussely.

[101] Frank looks intimidating.

[102] He's, he'll fuck with you for sure.

[103] I think he would attack someone who tried to break in here, for sure.

[104] I think he would too, but he wasn't attacking this guy who walked straight up to him, who's this little guy and began to caress him and Frank immediately flipped on his back.

[105] Because this stranger puts, dog treats in his pocket to disarm strangers, females, strangers to tell them where they live.

[106] I just think we might need a pandemic reset.

[107] Oh, yeah.

[108] of just our just the kind of the rules regulations also not just with that of kind of just a general safety of oh that's right don't just do whatever in a panic Karen Nickilgariff but also just socializing wise just interacting with people and then being like oh I don't actually know you that well yeah day -to -day interactions need to be relearned it's like physical therapy like after a break in a leg or whatever it's like you're not just going to get up running again no We broken, we broken ourselves.

[109] We broke every bone in our body.

[110] We were in traction for a year and a half.

[111] Now, go easy, easy down the hallway.

[112] Go slow.

[113] You don't have to tell your whole story.

[114] That's right.

[115] Except like a walker or a cane.

[116] Like it's not, you know, it's not shameful to need some help reentering society.

[117] Or just like for me personally and the people like me, just be quiet sometimes.

[118] Just be the one at the table that isn't telling a story and see what.

[119] what that feels like for the first time in 45 years.

[120] Just don't lead.

[121] Yes, it burns.

[122] Yes, it hurts.

[123] Am I disappearing off the planet?

[124] Maybe.

[125] Yeah.

[126] Try it out.

[127] If there's a moment of silence, it's okay.

[128] You don't have to, I'm pointing at you, but I'm talking at me. Always.

[129] Turning this finger around.

[130] Three back out of you.

[131] It's not your fault if there's a silence, then then you need to fill it.

[132] No, you're not some weird 50s house.

[133] wife that is in charge of all of the way everything goes.

[134] This isn't a boardroom and you're not the fucking CEO of your life.

[135] No. You know, I met Bridger Weinerger.

[136] You may have heard of him.

[137] He has the podcast.

[138] I said no gifts.

[139] And world renowned.

[140] I met Bridger for dinner at Swingers.

[141] And as I walked up, because I was walking up and I'm like, I'm wearing the same, you know, I have four pairs of black sweats that I love and that's all I wear.

[142] And then I have about eight black t -shirts and that's all I Yeah.

[143] And I've been comfortable and happy for two and a half years.

[144] Go ahead.

[145] But so I was like, that's what I'm wearing to meet Bridger for dinner because that's that.

[146] And it's a casual setting.

[147] Bridger's a casual guy.

[148] Yeah.

[149] It's a true diner.

[150] Yeah.

[151] As I walked up, there was a couple fighting in front of three.

[152] Oh, I'm excited for this.

[153] Now, this doesn't count as me reporting overheard, which I really hate when people like take to the internet and they're like, overheard in Los Angeles.

[154] It's just asshole conversations, which is like, okay, you're nosy.

[155] That's what this is about.

[156] But I had no choice because I was going in.

[157] I was like, I'm in my sweats under the radar, trying to be low -key, no eye contact.

[158] And this girl and guy were fighting in front of the doors.

[159] So I would have had to walk between them to get into the restaurant.

[160] And it was so hilarious and loud.

[161] And it filled me with joy.

[162] What were they yelling about?

[163] She wanted him to get back in the car, and she wanted him to act like a human being.

[164] Well, that's not too much to ask.

[165] You know, we'd like to think that, although I'd love to hear his side.

[166] Sure.

[167] Because he wasn't saying much.

[168] And she was saying what she was saying incredibly loud.

[169] Oh, no. And there was like, you know, tables outside.

[170] It wasn't just like me and them.

[171] There was lots of people.

[172] Public places.

[173] They were having it out where I was like, did you guys just?

[174] sit and stew inside swingers and walk outside and just burst into this fight.

[175] You had your tune in them out and now you're ready to fucking fight.

[176] I sat down at the booth with Bridger and Jimmy filled with glee and I was like, I just witnessed a true and straight up loud fight.

[177] And I got so excited when I heard that.

[178] My favorite thing to say when someone, my friend Micah Calabrese this one time we were.

[179] I know Michael Calabrese.

[180] Yeah, he's a wonderful guy.

[181] We were at a restaurant or somewhere and this couple was fighting and he under his breath goes to us.

[182] I want you to want to do the dishes.

[183] Wait, Micah said that to you.

[184] Yeah, he like jokingly said that that's what they were.

[185] I want you to want to do the dishes, which is like that such is the fight that couples have.

[186] And so whenever I see a couple fighting, I fucking, I want you to want to do the dishes.

[187] Oh, it's my favorite.

[188] It's so good.

[189] Hey, Frank, get out of there.

[190] He literally is just digging into your purse.

[191] I have, I have treats.

[192] I do have treats.

[193] God.

[194] Can I give him?

[195] You can, but he doesn't deserve it after it's sticking his whole nose in your purse.

[196] It might smell like, oh, look at his fucking face.

[197] Oh, my God.

[198] Frank, did you say thank you?

[199] Uh -oh, uh -oh.

[200] Uh -oh.

[201] He's trying to back out and get away.

[202] Because Frank is now convinced, so Georgia just gave Frank a really nice look like a almost like a human piece of beef jerky.

[203] No, yeah, it's like a choo -choo toy.

[204] He backed out of here.

[205] Like, we were all grabbing it with both hands.

[206] No one wants your shitty piece of, like, horse meat, Frank.

[207] God.

[208] Enjoy, Frank.

[209] No, I just, I, that's the part of being in public that I miss. I feel like that.

[210] Yes.

[211] In any normal setting, say, four years ago, I wouldn't have been like, oh, my God, get it together.

[212] But now I'm just like, look at this.

[213] They're really living.

[214] Because you got to see emotions for the first time in so long.

[215] Other people's emotions, fucking getting them all over the place.

[216] Yes.

[217] please give it up I would love to be in that position here's my favorite thing is in a situation like that you go to say if you would just act like a human or whatever the thing is that she was saying but instead you go and then you just turn around and walk away she does or he does no me that's my ultimate that's the ultimate move you're gonna fight it seems like you're gonna fight no you don't never say a thing like that that's insane listen think it through what you're about to yell at this dude Like, if eight people can hear you, like, run it through your head a couple times.

[218] That's a pretty awful thing to say to someone.

[219] It's horrible.

[220] Yeah.

[221] Now, could he be the biggest douchebag of all times?

[222] Perhaps.

[223] Probably.

[224] But then get away from the douchebag.

[225] Don't beg the douchebag to not be one.

[226] If someone drives you to the brink of yelling at them in public, the relationship's not good.

[227] I used to have, I had one relationship with a dude that we would just fucking fight all the time.

[228] Yeah.

[229] Which is not my style.

[230] in any relationship I've ever been in.

[231] And this hit me that I was like, what are we doing?

[232] Like, clearly we're not compatible.

[233] So, like, you shouldn't be fighting in public.

[234] That's a bad sign.

[235] Maybe once in a blue moon.

[236] It's fine.

[237] Yeah, like, I think the goal is, I'm enjoying it because it's like, I feel like I might be at the goal point now.

[238] But this also could be quarantine -induced psychosis that I'm even saying this.

[239] I like to think that I'm at the point now where it just be like, oh, and then you know, hold on I'm yelling on Beverly I need to zip it Nothing I'm about to say It's going to make me look like the winner right now Because I'm yelling Even if you're fucking right And he's a narcissist who doesn't act like a human Maybe he's even an alien And you're like pretend you're not an alien So what you do then is you go Oh Uber do do do do do jump in a car and drive away That's right.

[240] That's all That's all That's fine emotional relationship tolls Are on the front of my mind right now because the thing I can't stop watching right now is Taylor Swift's new fucking 10 minute music video.

[241] Would you explain it to me more for word and beat by beat?

[242] Did you not listen to it?

[243] No. You know how she re -released this out?

[244] Oh, I don't want to get too into it.

[245] No, I know.

[246] She had to re -release because Scooter Brown wouldn't give her any of her rights.

[247] That's fucking right.

[248] So she re -releases the song and this album that's clearly like a fucking indictment against Jake Gyllenhaal, even though she doesn't fucking say it.

[249] It is so juicy and good.

[250] And like the video that she made and she made it longer is like clearly about him.

[251] It's just like, and she's such a good songwriter.

[252] And it's just like, oh, I remember that happened to me too.

[253] You know, like, yes, I was 19 and a 29 year old fucked me over.

[254] And I just had to write about it in the memoir, but she gets to fucking sing about it.

[255] Yeah.

[256] So cathartic.

[257] Oh, because she was a little baby and he was a grown man that should have known better.

[258] Yeah, there are these lines where she's just in it that she's just like, you told me that if I was a little older, maybe it would have worked out.

[259] But now your girlfriend's at the same age I was, then I swear to God.

[260] Oh, shit.

[261] She calls him the fuck out.

[262] It's so satisfying.

[263] And it's a great song.

[264] You have to listen.

[265] Damn.

[266] Even Vince is like into it.

[267] I think he's like secretly a Swifty.

[268] How could you not be?

[269] It's just good songwriting.

[270] It's just good, solid songwriting.

[271] It has been since she was 14 years old.

[272] Like you don't build that.

[273] You don't build that and get worse and worse songwriters to help your talent as you go.

[274] Right.

[275] Then only the best come out.

[276] And they're like, guess what we're going to do now?

[277] So all I've been doing is singing it out loud terribly.

[278] It's so good.

[279] I feel sad because Nora texted me and goes, are you going to watch Adele's special at the Griffith Observatory?

[280] Adele did a concert.

[281] And it was on one of the, it was on regular TV.

[282] Wow.

[283] And all her friends were in the audience.

[284] It was like on the steps of the, oh, my God.

[285] Observatory.

[286] It was really beautifully lit.

[287] I didn't know that.

[288] And she sang her basically the new album.

[289] But I haven't listened to any of it because I have been so stressed out lately.

[290] I'm like, I don't have time to cry about shit that happened 15 years ago.

[291] I just don't.

[292] To someone else or do you?

[293] At all.

[294] Privately, publicly, whatever.

[295] So when Nora texted me that I got that like lump in my throat like I was about it was going to start.

[296] I was just like, I can't do it right now.

[297] She's like, I'm 13.

[298] I don't know.

[299] know what you're talking about because I've never had my heart broken yet she's just like it's actually not that big of a deal you can watch a concert but not with adele because adele's whole journey i've been there since adele was her videos were being posted on prez hilton in like yeah when when she had won't win a contest and she her video for i won't be able to remember the name of the song but it's my fave oh it's the hometown hometown heroes or whatever and she's just this little baby and turn the piano player and you're like, who the fuck is this?

[300] And now she's at the Griffith Observatory and she's killing it and Why don't you get invited?

[301] I'm not friends with her.

[302] There's literally like her friend's friends, I think.

[303] Did I ever tell you I went to this like, it was like 30 people to see Florence in the machine on the rooftop across in the Cafe 101, that old Hollywood hotel.

[304] She just did this like quiet secret concert for like KRO Q or whatever.

[305] Yes.

[306] And I sat in the front row and just fucking watched Florence to kill it.

[307] Jesus Christ.

[308] It was magical.

[309] How many people were there?

[310] There was like 30 people there.

[311] It was like a small thing that they wanted an audience for that like I just happened to get invited to.

[312] And then?

[313] Yeah.

[314] In 2018, she came to your concert.

[315] She came to our show.

[316] She came to our concert.

[317] You guys, Florence is a fucking murderer now.

[318] Florence came to our London show.

[319] Well, we don't.

[320] Do we know that?

[321] Well, she came to our show.

[322] I've been to plenty of shows.

[323] I'm like checking my watch.

[324] But why would she?

[325] She's fucking Florence.

[326] She's not going to waste her time with like her, she's a drag -along.

[327] True.

[328] Florence fucking is not a drag -along person.

[329] You're right.

[330] You're right.

[331] I needed to hear it.

[332] I just needed someone else to tell me. Can I do a brag like that?

[333] Yeah.

[334] In the early 2000s, it may have been late.

[335] Early 2000s.

[336] Because Manor Keenan is a friend of everybody in my comedy circle.

[337] And he's the lead singer of Tool.

[338] So we got to go.

[339] I'm not going to be able to remember the name of the album.

[340] I don't even think they had it assembled as an album.

[341] We just got to go into the tiniest studio, and there was like 12 of us.

[342] Oh, my God.

[343] And just listened to the songs they had ready right then.

[344] Her tool, like one of the biggest fucking bands.

[345] It was crazy.

[346] It was the loud.

[347] It gave me brain damage.

[348] I think it was so loud.

[349] And you couldn't not be near a gigantic speaker.

[350] And you just, it was like inside your body, where I'm like, I have to be a fan of them for the rest of them.

[351] rest of my life now just because that was like a transatory experience.

[352] And they gave you tinnitus.

[353] So you have to be friends with them.

[354] They owe me. That's right.

[355] I'm owed.

[356] That's the cool thing about, I have to say, living in Los Angeles, the parking sucks.

[357] The people are the worst.

[358] But every once in a while, you get like people are just like, oh, come to this thing with me and suddenly you're like, holy shit, it's everything I've ever dreamed of.

[359] It's these like experiences where you go, oh, this is what people move to L .A. for.

[360] Like, this is what they think L .A. is like, and I'm having an experience of that.

[361] It just happens once every eight years, though, so you really don't hold your breath.

[362] Totally.

[363] But it'll keep you for another eight years in L .A. Suddenly, you've been here for fucking 25 years.

[364] Yeah, for real.

[365] For real.

[366] Yeah.

[367] Which I would never want to live anywhere else, so I don't care.

[368] No, I've tried to live other places, but it is...

[369] I tried once.

[370] This is the spot.

[371] Yeah.

[372] It's just where it's happening.

[373] Now Frank won't leave us alone because he's like...

[374] Oh, yeah.

[375] It took cookie like three days to finish.

[376] Oh, please.

[377] This guy's like, do you have any pencils?

[378] I can't keep pencils out of Frank's mouth.

[379] Shut up.

[380] I swear to God.

[381] It's like, he's like, here's my impression of a beaver.

[382] And then he eats a fucking really nice pencil.

[383] A goat.

[384] That's what I was trying to think of earlier.

[385] He's like a goat.

[386] It's just like a goat.

[387] Tim Cairns?

[388] Great.

[389] He's just too long on the street where he's like, look, there's protein inside that pencil.

[390] It's this or nothing.

[391] I'll never eat again.

[392] Should we?

[393] Georgia brought me...

[394] Hey, guys.

[395] Now we're talking to you.

[396] Hey, guys.

[397] Georgia brought me a treat.

[398] Ah, it's not for you, Frank.

[399] Get up here.

[400] He sounded like a horse.

[401] I know.

[402] Get up here.

[403] Sometimes he sounds like a horse and sometimes he sounds like Chewbacca when he yawns.

[404] It's the funniest thing.

[405] So Georgia came bearing Kit Katz tonight.

[406] Hell yeah, I did.

[407] And this one is a hazelnut spread kit cats.

[408] I've never had that.

[409] It's unofficial Nutella.

[410] Yeah, totally.

[411] I can't call it that.

[412] I went to the best place in the world, cost plus world market.

[413] And I saw all these Kit Katz from, I think these are like probably from Canada or the UK or something, where they're not from the U .S., meaning they're good.

[414] Yes.

[415] And it made me so sad for our office.

[416] Oh, I know.

[417] It made me like, oh, my God, we used to have drawers full of fucking Kit Katz at the office because people just sent them to us from not the United States.

[418] I swear to God, I think these are from Ireland.

[419] How come?

[420] Because that's what it says under this.

[421] It's Nestle product of the U .K. Yeah.

[422] Oh.

[423] It says Nestle, UK.

[424] It's made in over on 3030 Lake Drive City West Business Campus in Dublin.

[425] Oh, my God.

[426] We have Dublin kick hats.

[427] Get ready.

[428] I feel like we're in Willy Wonka.

[429] Should we try them?

[430] Yeah.

[431] Should we open line up?

[432] In a podcast like everyone likes?

[433] Should we chew straight in the way?

[434] Should we even edit the sound out?

[435] Do you even bleep this?

[436] If you like...

[437] Hazelnut spread, let's call it that.

[438] Okay.

[439] It's like calling it a tissue instead of a Kleenex.

[440] If you like that, right as I went to put it in my mouth, I could taste that Nutella taste, and that's a great experience.

[441] What's Kit Kat doing?

[442] They're like Oreos where they're just going for it.

[443] Last week I did the, I covered the Chippendales murder.

[444] As we were talking about it, last week, Stephen was like, oh, I'm going to ask my mom because she lived in L .A. at that time.

[445] So, Stephen, do you want to turn it over and tell your mother's Chippendale's experience?

[446] Yes.

[447] She grew up in Los Angeles.

[448] She's had, you know, plenty of, you know, nightstocker, serial killer connections.

[449] And she has a Chippendales connection in which she went to the Culver City location, which I think was the original.

[450] Yeah, I think so.

[451] And yeah, and I asked her to describe it.

[452] And she was like screaming women with lots of dollar bills.

[453] And then she saw a woman making out with one of the dancers in the bathroom.

[454] Yes.

[455] And she was like quick to point out, what?

[456] It means you're your Aunt Terry.

[457] Yeah, right.

[458] Sure.

[459] Wow.

[460] That's awesome.

[461] Because I kind of assumed most of those dancers must be gay men because they have such perfect bodies.

[462] But that's really exciting.

[463] Those men must have been in heaven.

[464] Oh.

[465] That's like a dream job.

[466] Oh, my God.

[467] Up to their necks.

[468] My friend Doug Jones, who's a original listener, his mom and dad are from here too.

[469] and but his dad is a pastor and so they're both like really sweet normal innocent people and so he goes I texted my mom and she responded I think Chippendales had nail strippers of course I never hung out there and then the emoji with the what's it called halo and when I said yeah I said plot twist your dad was a dancer and your mom was a patron and that's how they bet and then he wrote Chippendales a place for moms Oh, my God.

[470] Can you imagine if there was, like, a story of...

[471] Oh, for sure.

[472] Because then, God, that would make you feel so, like, popular and attractive.

[473] If you were the one that the Chippendales dancer is like, it's got to be you.

[474] Yeah, I can't live without you, Mary, or whatever your name is.

[475] It's like, you're different than all the other screaming women shoving money in my underwear.

[476] You're the one.

[477] You're the one.

[478] Let's go make out in the bathroom and do Coke.

[479] Let's do a quick exactly right corner.

[480] Sure.

[481] So this week on True Beauty Brooklyn, two of the hosts of Lady to Lady, Babs Gray and Tess Barker, they are the ones who have Britney's Graham, their podcast.

[482] They have an additional podcast, Britney's Graham.

[483] They basically broke the story that Brittany was being held under a conservatorship.

[484] So they are kind of doing the rounds right now because it's such a popular story.

[485] And so they went on there and talked to Alex and Elizabeth about all kinds of stuff.

[486] It's a great podcast.

[487] Check it out.

[488] And then also, you know, we're doing our celebrity hometown special for the holidays.

[489] And this week we have Pat and Oswald on, who is just the most delightful.

[490] We talked to him for like an hour.

[491] It could have been a two -parter.

[492] Yeah.

[493] Because he's so fun to talk to.

[494] And, of course, the three of us have so much in common.

[495] It was a very delightful episode.

[496] So listen to that.

[497] Oh, and then in the merch store, we have lots of drinkware options.

[498] Are you thirsty right now?

[499] Well, guess what?

[500] We have vessels for you to put your drink of choice.

[501] including coosies, water bottles, wine glasses, and mugs.

[502] So go to myfavormerder .com and then go in the store.

[503] You get it and then follow exactly right on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook for more updates.

[504] That's the business part.

[505] Yep, we're done with that.

[506] Now it's time to get into the stories.

[507] Yep, let's do it.

[508] I think, are you first?

[509] No, you're first.

[510] Am I?

[511] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[512] Absolutely.

[513] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[514] Exactly.

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[528] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[529] Goodbye.

[530] All right.

[531] Well, this week, to kick it off, I'm going to do the thing that I used to do all the time, bringing it on back.

[532] This is a story I got from an episode of I Survived.

[533] Wow.

[534] Yes.

[535] It's been a while.

[536] It's been a long time, I think, because I cycled through all of the stories on I survived that I, like, that struck me and hit me. Because I survived is the, it's their own stories.

[537] That's the thing that I liked so much about it is, it's me. acting as if Jennifer Mori telling her story about what happened to her was my friend telling me that story and then you my friend are telling me that story yes because I'm going to be like you have to know about this person that's all we are that's all we want that's all we do right and so we have another another of these people right this is the story of the abduction of Paul Martin Andrews so he Paul Martin Andrews he wrote a first hand account of what happened to him for a magazine called the hook 2003.

[538] And now the hook has all of their back issues online.

[539] It's going to say episodes.

[540] Of course, his episode of I Survive.

[541] There's also People magazine article by Bill Hewitt, a morbidology article, morbidology .com by Emily Thompson.

[542] Martin Andrews wrote an article for the hook.

[543] There's also an article for the freelance star by Laura Moyer, an article for the website wavy .com.

[544] by Andy Fox.

[545] There is Bella Online, which is like a blog by Erica Lynn Smith that had a lot of good information in it.

[546] There was Fox News .com article by Nicholas Lanham, ABC News, Washington Post, and of course, Wikipedia.

[547] Love it.

[548] I mean.

[549] A lot of people talking.

[550] Well, it's been, you know, this happened in the 70s.

[551] And it kind of went on for a while because it's the kind of story.

[552] You know, well, you'll see.

[553] You know what?

[554] I'll see.

[555] You know what?

[556] Instead of, why am I synopsizing story?

[557] I'm also about to tell you.

[558] That's one of the major mistakes in podcasting.

[559] That and when people ask a question and then they go, they go like, what happened to that person?

[560] I mean, did they get married?

[561] Did they go on vacation?

[562] Did they did?

[563] My sister does it all the time and I go, stop asking me sub questions and I will answer the original question.

[564] And that will answer all of the other questions.

[565] That and eating on air.

[566] Can you believe how unprofessional some people get me?

[567] I'm still snacking.

[568] Now, just even making that noise, my sister would be so furious if she was listening to this podcast and I made mouse sounds like that.

[569] That's her absolute like pet peeve.

[570] She can't stand.

[571] I think a lot of people have this like a physical reaction to that noise.

[572] Yeah.

[573] It's not great listening to other people eat.

[574] Maybe take that.

[575] Maybe Stephen bleeped Karen doing that.

[576] But I did it the least damp way possible.

[577] Yeah, it was a joke.

[578] It was a joke.

[579] Don't you?

[580] This is a true crime comedy podcast.

[581] It was a joke.

[582] Okay.

[583] Now we're starting this story.

[584] Okay.

[585] Okay.

[586] So it's around 8 in the morning.

[587] This beginning to is, it's one of the ones where you're just like, what if this was, what if this happened to you?

[588] Yeah.

[589] It's just so unbelievable.

[590] Okay.

[591] It's 8 in the morning on January 19.

[592] It's 1973, and January 19th is the last day of rabbit hunting season.

[593] So there's two hunters driving through the woods in each and their own pickup truck, and they both hear someone screaming.

[594] So luckily, they stop and get out and they're looking around.

[595] Now, they're in the middle of the forest, out in the middle of nowhere, and they're walking around, and then they look and they see a metal door in the ground.

[596] Right?

[597] right why is there a metal door in the middle of the forest it is it is straight out of almost like a hacky horror movie script of like out in the middle of nowhere there's a door yeah so it's partially covered with leaves but it's propped open and um so one hunter approaches this door slowly with his rifle aimed toward it of course and he calls out to say whoever's inside come out right now and then the hunters hear a young boy yelling back, I can't come out because he's chained up and he needs help.

[598] Oh my God.

[599] So they throw that door open and they uncover a horrific scene inside of what looks to be a small dark box is a chained up 13 year old boy with black eyes, a broken nose, bruises all over his face and body, and a broken front tooth.

[600] And this boy's name is Martin Andrews.

[601] So these hunters call the police.

[602] When the police arrive on the scene, they begin photographing the whole area, including the box with Martin still inside, still chained up.

[603] This is, when I read this, it was like, it broke my heart.

[604] It is the most 70s, no consideration for the victim kind of procedural moment where it's like, so they got all there, work down first and then they cut him loose with a pair of bolt cutters.

[605] Horrifying.

[606] That's so disgusting.

[607] Horrifying.

[608] So they take him to the I can only guess it's pronounced the Obesy Memorial Hospital but it's OBICI.

[609] Okay.

[610] Obcchee, I don't know.

[611] And here's a thing.

[612] Martin's mom works at this hospital as a nurse and she had reported her son missing seven days before.

[613] The police told her he was probably just a runaway and then just to wait it out and he would come back.

[614] She knew that wasn't the case.

[615] So when Martin is brought in covered in bruises and clearly, you know, beaten and assaulted, Anne almost collapses partly from relief that he's alive and then partly because looking at him, she can see that her son has been through something horrible.

[616] Yeah.

[617] Oh, my God.

[618] How awful.

[619] So Paul Martin Andrews.

[620] So he goes by his middle name, Martin.

[621] He's born in 1959 in White County, Virginia.

[622] He's the oldest of three kids.

[623] When he's 12 years old, his parents get a divorce, which is, of course, rough for the whole family.

[624] A year later, his mom remarries.

[625] And the new stepdad has three kids of his own.

[626] So Martin, the mom, and his siblings, they move into the new stepdad's house in Portsmouth, Virginia.

[627] So this is like a bigger town than he lived in before.

[628] There's more to do.

[629] They have movies.

[630] They have arcades.

[631] There's convenient stores.

[632] And so Martin and his siblings are latchkey kids.

[633] Both parents work.

[634] So he gets, he starts smoking.

[635] They're basically kind of like, it's their early 70s lifestyle of they're out and about.

[636] He basically has a bunch of stuff to do.

[637] And he's, you know, he's living his best, living his best preteen life, smoky marlborals.

[638] I mean, they practically came on your birthday cake when you turn 12 in the 70s.

[639] You know, happy birthday.

[640] What else were you going to do down in the creek?

[641] Yeah.

[642] So he decides because he wants to do all these things and he wants to be out and about, so he gets a paper route.

[643] On January 11th, there's a big snowstorm.

[644] The schools declare snow day.

[645] And Georgia, you're from California.

[646] So snow day means you don't have to go to school because it's snowing.

[647] Apparently, they tell you on the news and stuff.

[648] It's a real big deal.

[649] California kids don't understand.

[650] No. So all kids are off from school.

[651] And of course, Martin is stoked to have the day off, but he still has to do his paper route.

[652] So what he does, he puts on ice skates and he skates down the street and pulls the newspapers in a sled.

[653] Isn't that cute?

[654] So he makes the most of it basically.

[655] Then later in the afternoon, he and his sisters decide that they're going to make ice cream out of the freshly fallen snow, which I guess is something kids did do in where it snows.

[656] It seems gross.

[657] So they have sugar, and of course they have the snow.

[658] So now all they need is some milk.

[659] So Martin volunteers to walk down to the local convenience store to go get it.

[660] And he gets about three blocks down the street when a blue Ford van approaches.

[661] And the driver introduces himself as peewee.

[662] And he asks Martin if he wants to help him move furniture at his brother's house and he'll pay him $3 to do it.

[663] And so Martin's like, it's, yes, more money.

[664] So he agrees because he wants the money And also because he assumes That this guy who's talking to him Must be a neighbor in this new neighborhood That he just hasn't met yet Yeah So he gets into this van Yeah horrifying And it's the same thing I did with the guy Where you're kind of like If you think someone is your neighbor Or someone other people know And like a fixture Then trust is so much More automatic Right And so much more, it's kind of what you just...

[665] Especially if they have an air of confidence of like, yeah, I belong here.

[666] And you're like, okay, what am I doing to question?

[667] I'm not going to question it.

[668] Yeah.

[669] If you're a 12 -year -old kid and you're like, hey, come help me do this thing.

[670] It sounds like they're going around the corner to do it.

[671] Totally.

[672] So Martin feels fine about this decision until Peewee merges onto the interstate.

[673] Oh, no. So he, of course, thought it was going to happen somewhere in the neighborhood they already were.

[674] Right.

[675] Now he doesn't know the area.

[676] They're getting far away from, he already is new to the area.

[677] Now he doesn't know where he is.

[678] He knows they're somewhere near Suffolk, but doesn't know the exact location.

[679] And he starts to worry that he's going to get in trouble for going off with a stranger.

[680] Then he sees a long knife in one of like the door pockets in this van.

[681] And he starts getting like panicky.

[682] Yeah.

[683] And so as any 13 year old in the 70s would do, he starts smoking.

[684] And he pulls out a cigarette and starts smoking.

[685] And then Peeway goes, oh, that's the kind of I smoke, too.

[686] And then he was like, oh, okay.

[687] And he's kind of comforted by that.

[688] Like, oh, this isn't so bad.

[689] Maybe I'm just overreacting.

[690] Yeah.

[691] So then Peewee stops at a store and says he has to grab some things before they get to his brother's house.

[692] So as Martin's sitting in the van, he wants to jump out and run.

[693] But he doesn't know where he is.

[694] He doesn't know where he'd run to.

[695] he thinks he's going to get in trouble overall.

[696] And then he also thinks I told, I gave this man my word, I would help him and take this job.

[697] And it would be bad of me to run away right now.

[698] Right.

[699] Or what would that look like if I ran away and he really just was.

[700] Right.

[701] Well, it's that classic I'm overreacting, relax, you're being dramatic thing that we all tell ourselves instead of listening.

[702] When our instincts, yeah, exactly, are telling us a totally different thing.

[703] Yeah.

[704] But that's, you know, that's what most people do.

[705] And also, that's why it's like when you are 12 years old, those are, you start thinking of things that your parents, of course, would be like you would never be in trouble or just running and get, just going into the store and saying, I don't know this man in a van or whatever.

[706] Yeah.

[707] But, I mean, this is just, this is what happens.

[708] So he basically just stays where he is.

[709] So they get back on the road.

[710] they drive about 15, 20 miles south further.

[711] They turn on to a dirt road near a place called Dismal Swamp.

[712] Oh.

[713] And then, yeah, then they pull up and down the dirt road there's a chain that's blocking the road.

[714] That's like a locked chain.

[715] And Peeby says that his brother keeps the key to this like fence in a deer box out in the woods.

[716] So they just need to walk out to the deer box to go get it and unlock it.

[717] So Martin follows this guy out into the woods and they soon reach the metal door that's in the ground.

[718] So peewee opens it.

[719] He crawls inside the deer box.

[720] So it's actually, these are common things for like deer hunting season.

[721] So you can hide and like surprise the deer.

[722] Oh, I didn't.

[723] I always thought they were like up in the trees.

[724] I didn't know they had them underground.

[725] I think those are blinds, right?

[726] I think they have both.

[727] But I guess this is like these aren't, it's not unheard of.

[728] Okay, I've never.

[729] It is just to us.

[730] Again, I'm from Southern California.

[731] Yeah, we just don't.

[732] We don't know snow days.

[733] We don't know hunting.

[734] So Peewee gets into this box first, and he says, here, I need you to come in and help me move this stuff around.

[735] So Martin follows him in, and as he goes inside, Peewee pulls out a 12 -inch hunting knife and says, I've got bad news for you.

[736] You've just been kidnapped.

[737] Oh, God.

[738] And then it's really horrible because that's, Peewee immediately makes Martin stripping.

[739] naked.

[740] He rapes him, and this is the first of four sexual assaults that happened on that first day.

[741] Martin will end up being held in this underground box in the woods for the next seven days being repeatedly raped and beaten, viciously beaten.

[742] Sometimes he gets let outside, either to help pee -wee cook or to walk through the woods or to sit by the campfire.

[743] But of course, the abuse Martin endures makes him tread lightly when pee -wee.

[744] Pee -wee has his moments of calm.

[745] Yeah.

[746] He tries to, you know, make casual conversation with the man, hoping that he can eventually kind of convince him to let him go.

[747] But Pee -wee is erratic and unstable.

[748] Martin later recalls being in constant fear for his life, just, like, totally so scared saying, you just never knew what was going to set this guy off.

[749] Oh, my God.

[750] He's really erratic, really violent, horrible.

[751] How is he telling his story on I survived?

[752] Is he like stoic?

[753] Is he?

[754] He's, yeah, he's just like all the other survivors where he's, it's very, there's definitely moments where you see him kind of well up and it's such an overwhelming, horrible memory to that day, you know, it seemed, but at the same time, he's very good at telling his story.

[755] Yeah, yeah.

[756] I think especially for, you know, not to speak on this.

[757] in any way that I know about it.

[758] But I think, as we all know, culturally, it's so hard for men to talk about sexual assaults.

[759] It's like, because we all know men are allowed to have feelings anyway.

[760] They aren't allowed to, you know.

[761] And then something like that is all the implications of that and the shame and everything around it.

[762] So it's really kind of amazing to watch him.

[763] Because most of the men and I survived, their stories are about how their snowmobile overturned.

[764] and they got stuck in like a frozen river, for real.

[765] And then you have two women who are telling these horrifying stories.

[766] So he really does stand out as this really strong narrator of what is a complete nightmare story.

[767] Just unbelievable.

[768] So Peewee comes and goes from this box in the ground.

[769] He always makes sure that he ties Martin up when he leaves.

[770] So Martin is chained by the ankle to the side of the box.

[771] His feet are tied together with wire and his hands are tied behind his back with wire.

[772] Oh, my God.

[773] So then eight days into the abduction, Pee -wee leaves, Martin chained up inside the box and he doesn't return.

[774] And Martin thinks he's been left for dead underground in the middle of the forest and in the middle of nowhere.

[775] So when he finally hears those trucks coming in the distance, he figures out a way to prop one of the doors open.

[776] and he just starts screaming and just by a miracle of God, the passing hunters in trucks, hear him screaming, stop, look for him and find him.

[777] Especially because you said it's the last day of rabbit hunting season, which means maybe people aren't going to come out again after that day.

[778] Yes.

[779] Right up, yes, exactly.

[780] Like that was the, that was probably the last day.

[781] Anything like that would have happened.

[782] Or, like, was possible.

[783] Yeah, the idea that there would be people out there for that reason.

[784] Like, suddenly there would be no reason to be out there all.

[785] Oh, horrifying.

[786] So it doesn't take police very long to identify Martin's attacker.

[787] He's 33 -year -old Richard Alvin Osley.

[788] He's a child rapist who's on parole for abducting a 10 -year -old boy in 1961.

[789] He also raped that boy, and the boy was faithful.

[790] found Hogtide and left for dead in the woods.

[791] So it was exactly the same crime that he had already gone to jail for, gotten out on parole.

[792] He served 10 years, got out on parole.

[793] And the day he abducted Martin, he was supposed to appear in court to face additional sodomy charges because he attacked another 14 -year -old boy in 1972.

[794] So he got out and immediately started doing it again.

[795] He was his real predator.

[796] So the police show Martin a photo lineup and Martin picks out Richard Owsley right away.

[797] They tell Martin that they were sure Owsley was their guy.

[798] Now Martin has confirmed it.

[799] But the police had told Martin's parents when he was reported missing, they thought he was a runaway.

[800] So that begs the question.

[801] If the authorities knew that a child rapist had skipped his court appearance and was on the lamb, once he didn't show up for court, why wasn't there any kind of?

[802] of communication or protocol in place so that when Martin's mother reported him missing, the connection would be immediately made and they'd connect those dots and not assume the boy is a runaway.

[803] Or even let everyone know, in the public know, it's like a be on the lookout, be extra cautious, this person has skipped out and he's a fucking predator.

[804] Yeah.

[805] Like warning the public.

[806] I mean, you know, it's the early 70s.

[807] So it was kind of like, was there even 9 -1 -1 back then?

[808] Like, it's all these things that we take for granted as if they've existed always are so many of them are so recent.

[809] Yeah.

[810] And I think stuff like this, like if it was maybe by chance in a different county.

[811] Right, right, right, right.

[812] It's always that story of like if it's one county over or one city over, it just doesn't get conveyed.

[813] But that idea that like a mother coming to say my 12 -year -old son is just missing.

[814] he went to the store and didn't come home.

[815] My pre -teen son went to the store and didn't come home and had plans with his sisters.

[816] Like, it doesn't, you know, it's just anyway.

[817] But that also was that time where it was like early enough because I believe it was, yeah, 73.

[818] So that was just the end of like that, you know, the Summer of Love kind of thing where all the teenagers went to San Francisco.

[819] This was the thing the cop said all the time.

[820] and used all the time to just not have to track anything down.

[821] Totally.

[822] So the good news is that four days after Martin was discovered, January 23, 1973, Richard Owsley turns himself in.

[823] He's charged with abduction, rape, and sodomy, and he's guilty.

[824] I think he pled no contest.

[825] He's given a 48 -year prison sentence.

[826] So the Sunday after his rescue, So now this is all about basically Martin being the victim of this horrible crime and basically having to, you know, come back into his family and to his community and how things got dealt with back then.

[827] Right.

[828] So the Sunday after his rescue, Martin goes to church with his family.

[829] And this was the congregation.

[830] They had been praying for him when he was missing.

[831] They had all been waiting for his return.

[832] Of course, everyone was so thrilled.

[833] There's a story about his, like, six -year -old sister saying that she, the day that Martin was found, she saw a rainbow in the sky and she knew that was like a message that he was going to be okay.

[834] Oh, my God.

[835] And a lot of people in this community, even though the cops said he was a runaway, they knew that something bad had happened.

[836] Right.

[837] There was one church congregation member was a fireman named Troy Tippin who had spent the week doing an aerial search in a. helicopter looking for him like there are people who really yeah took it seriously yeah and so once he was safe and home again everyone basically tries to not talk about it say he's fine he's back and that means everything's fine they're of course all afraid any discussion of it is going to traumatize martin even further and one of the only people who wants to talk about the fact that martin was kidnapped and that this was you know like an assault was troy tippin this this fireman Wow.

[838] And Martin would later say that he so appreciated the fact that Troy was trying to acknowledge what he'd actually gone through instead of this idea of like, you know, he has to be a man and he has to be tough and not talk about it and basically ignore it, which is, as we all know, not the solution.

[839] Yeah.

[840] So, I mean, it was, again, in the 70s, no one knew how to handle anything.

[841] Yeah, but it seems like it's not that different now in a lot of cultures.

[842] Right.

[843] Well, because I think there's, yeah, I think that's just the thing that's starting to change now, you know, a little bit more with like social media where people are like talking about things and coming forward with things.

[844] But that idea to say, to qualify somebody else's experience of be like he's fine.

[845] Yeah.

[846] Is so, you know, minimizing and demeaning to that person's experience of what they went through.

[847] I feel like back then too, it's like we're grateful he's home.

[848] Let's not question it.

[849] Let's not.

[850] talk about it.

[851] Let's just give him a normal, quote, life, and we'll all forget about it.

[852] Right.

[853] And he'll forget about it.

[854] Which, of course, doesn't work.

[855] And because, of course, things weren't okay after that, had such a horrible experience.

[856] His parents and his doctors, like, basically, he felt like they thought he was broken and that they were trying to fix him.

[857] And basically, the experts warned Martin's parents that the trauma could make him act out, do a bunch of stuff, and possibly go on to be a sexual predator himself.

[858] So with the fear that this would be some kind of like an instigating experience in his life, his parents end up sending him to a psychiatric ward for treatment.

[859] Dear.

[860] Right.

[861] So that's really sad and difficult because, of course, he's in there with truly mentally ill people.

[862] He's a preteen boy.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Oh, that's heartbreaking.

[865] He has to go through a bunch of tests.

[866] He is in group therapy.

[867] He has individual counseling.

[868] He's, of course, incredibly frustrated, and it's arguably as traumatizing a situation.

[869] Although he does continue, like the counseling, of course, at least he finally.

[870] got to talk about it, and it was being acknowledged and discussed and faced in a way.

[871] So he does continue counseling after his release, which I think is good.

[872] For a while, you know, when he's in these teens, he turns to alcohol and drugs to escape, which is completely justified and understandable.

[873] But after he graduates from high school, he moves to Fort Lauderdale, Florida to get a fresh start, and he works as a computer repairman, and he becomes active at the last.

[874] local Presbyterian church where he lives.

[875] He's very well liked in this congregation of people.

[876] He has one friend that he met there who would later tell reporters, he's amazingly gentle.

[877] You cannot find a kinder, more compassionate human being.

[878] And in 1980, Martin meets a man named Mark Levy when he's out at a nightclub.

[879] The two start dating.

[880] They move in together shortly after that, and they've been together ever since.

[881] Holy shit.

[882] Yes.

[883] So Martin's life finally starts coming together, but he still never tells anybody about what happened to him.

[884] He never talks about it.

[885] Wow.

[886] And even his partner, Mark, he's aware that Martin went through something, some sort of traumatic event in his childhood, but he doesn't ask about it.

[887] They don't discuss it.

[888] And he says that he figured when the time came, Martin would tell him about it.

[889] Yeah.

[890] So then almost 30 years later after what Martin went through in 2002, he finds out that Richard Owsley, who's now 63, is up for parole.

[891] I knew you were going to say that.

[892] Yeah.

[893] So Martin searches for some way to prevent Owsley's release, and he discovers there's a legal process in Virginia called Civil Confignment, where the worst violent sexual predators, are evaluated after their prison sentences are over to see if they're fit to rejoin society and if they're deemed to not be fit, then they're sent to special treatment facilities.

[894] So the civil commitment of sexually violent Predators Act became a statute in 1999, but because of lack of funding, the program never got up and running.

[895] So Martin is determined to keep Richard Owsley out of, off the streets, essentially.

[896] He's still young.

[897] He could still fucking do that.

[898] constantly.

[899] Right.

[900] He's only in his 60s.

[901] So Martin decides it's finally time to share his story with the world.

[902] He has to talk about it.

[903] Chills.

[904] I have chills.

[905] Right?

[906] So he goes to the parole board and he tells them his story in detail.

[907] And then he goes to a number of Virginia lawmakers and he goes to several media outlets.

[908] He tells them everything Richard Owsley did to him.

[909] He puts basically the whole thing puts pressure on the state of Virginia.

[910] and they end up allocating funds to the civil confinement program.

[911] Wow.

[912] So this actually ends up working.

[913] Richard Owsley's parole is denied.

[914] And in 2003, Virginia Governor Mark Warner includes funding for the Civil Commitment of Sexually Violent Predators Act in the state budget.

[915] Amazing.

[916] So a few months after Martin speaks publicly, another man comes forward.

[917] He said he too was assaulted.

[918] by Richard Owsley in 1972 when he was 14 years old.

[919] Yep.

[920] He was also too afraid to tell anybody about the horrors he'd suffered, and he had kept them a secret for all of his life until he heard Martin tell his story, and it gave him the courage to come forward.

[921] So this was essentially the case that Richard Owsley skipped out on the day that he kidnapped Martin.

[922] He was supposed to be going to court for this boy's attack and rape.

[923] So basically, Richard Owsley returns to court to face the sodomy charge for the 1972 assault, and he pleads no contest.

[924] The judge adds another five years to a sentence, and he ends up going back to jail.

[925] When he's in jail on January 13, 2004, Richard Owsley is strangled to death by his cellmate.

[926] Wow.

[927] It turns out his cellmate had himself been sexually assaulted when he was a child.

[928] and he'd actually warned the prison guards not to assign him to a cell with a pedophile because he wouldn't be able to control his actions.

[929] And those guards either didn't listen or they did listen.

[930] Yeah.

[931] Holy shit.

[932] Yes.

[933] And when reporters inform Martin Andrews about Richard Owsley's murder, he tells them, I'm still very conflicted and I'm trying to come to terms with it.

[934] I did what I did to keep him off the street.

[935] nobody deserves to be murdered.

[936] Wow.

[937] What's fucking grace right there?

[938] Yes, it is.

[939] And that is the survival story of Paul Martin Andrews.

[940] Jesus.

[941] Right?

[942] That's crazy.

[943] So in 2021, they tried to repeal that act.

[944] And there was a senator that said, you should not be able to send people to jail for crimes you think they're going to commit, which is an argument that is, very true.

[945] Yeah.

[946] Great job.

[947] Thank you.

[948] Wild story.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Nice to have you back doing.

[951] I survived.

[952] Oh, I mean, they're, they're so fraught.

[953] They're so, but then it's the beautiful thing of people surviving and then going on and affecting change and I don't know.

[954] Yeah, definitely.

[955] Yeah.

[956] All right.

[957] Well, this isn't an I survived.

[958] Today, I'm going to tell you about one of Oklahoma's most high profile unsolved murder cases.

[959] The murder of Cattle Ranch Empire owner, E .C. Mullinder the third.

[960] Oh, okay.

[961] So the sources that I used are three Oklahoman articles, one by Richard W. Break, one by Anne Kelly, and another by Silas Allen, an Unsolved Magazine article by Mike Easterling, a Paris News staff article, glands and associates, the Cowley County Historical Society Museum, and the Oklahoma Quarter Horse.

[962] All right.

[963] So on October 26, 1937, Eugene Claremont, Mollendor, the third, is born.

[964] And he goes by EC.

[965] So I'm going to call him that from now on.

[966] His parents are Gene Mollendor the second and his wife, Kathleen.

[967] They had built their family's cattle ranch business into an empire.

[968] By the time they built it up, the couple had owned more than 130 ,000 acres of land along the Kansas, Oklahoma border.

[969] They breed quarters.

[970] quarter horses.

[971] They raise the best cattle.

[972] They drill for oil.

[973] And they become known as the largest cattle shippers ever on the Santa Fe Railroad.

[974] So they're fucking rich as fuck.

[975] Yeah.

[976] Gene and Kathleen, the parents are a great team.

[977] She is in charge of the main house, the cookhouse for the helpers and keeping the books.

[978] And she even becomes a pilot so she can fly over the ranch and let her husband know if there's any animals running loose.

[979] Whoa.

[980] So she kind of sounds like a bad ass.

[981] She's getting it to also.

[982] You know she makes like a hard.

[983] biscuit.

[984] Oh, yeah.

[985] Maybe some delicious fried chicken.

[986] Can we do biscuits and gravy?

[987] Please, God.

[988] She makes a great biscuits and gravy.

[989] And maybe some nice kettle of beans.

[990] Oh, man. I'm hungry.

[991] Okay.

[992] And Gene is in charge of everything else, the whole cattle ranch.

[993] So they have their son, EC, in 1937.

[994] They have a daughter in 1940.

[995] And then the couple and their family moves into a mansion on Cross Bell Ranch, which encompasses around 42 ,000 acres.

[996] of the family's empire land so much land it's too much land that no wonder she needs to be a pilot you can't just go for a walk no you have to i mean that's that's so it's so much work yeah that's so much work but we live next door to my aunt my aunt jean and uncle stephen they had just like a fun farm it was for no reason except for we would we had like you know sheep's sheep and cows in the fair i always forget you you like grew up on land.

[997] Yeah, on land.

[998] But like we were the, my dad used to always say, we're the gentleman farmers.

[999] None of these people take us seriously because all around us for like poultry ranches and dairy farms.

[1000] Dairy farms and the whole thing.

[1001] And even, but even just having like, you know, six cows is so much work.

[1002] Yes, totally.

[1003] I would imagine.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] I had a cat and it was a lot of work because I can't imagine.

[1006] It was really hard.

[1007] Having six fucking cows.

[1008] Okay, so the area is located in a remote area of Osage County in northern Oklahoma.

[1009] It's one of the states, the largest ranches, thousands of livestock.

[1010] According to Unsolved Magazine, everything about Crossbell was kept in first class, illustrating the Mollendor's fondness in life refiner things.

[1011] So they made a lot of money off of this.

[1012] Big money.

[1013] Big money in farming.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] So just to give you an idea how much land and how opulent it was, to get to the mansion, you had to drive up a four -mile driveway.

[1016] Yes.

[1017] Is that what you want in life?

[1018] I mean, so wait, sorry.

[1019] They, it wasn't just like, because some people live on their cattle ranch and their home, they keep it all real low key.

[1020] You just kind of wouldn't know they had money at all.

[1021] Is the, is almost like, that's a very Sonoma County way to do it.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] It's just like, you know, you don't, they don't, they're not bougie.

[1024] They're not flaunting.

[1025] No. This doesn't sound like that.

[1026] It sounds like they had a. mansion with a big, long driveway.

[1027] Yeah, yeah.

[1028] And they had built a private school on the ranch for E .C. and his sister and the children of the cowboys working for the family to attend.

[1029] So enough cowboys to create an entire school out of it.

[1030] Like, it's crazy.

[1031] That's a huge staff.

[1032] Yeah.

[1033] So the kid of E .C. eventually heads off to Oklahoma University, but he moves back home in 1959 at 22 years old after his father basically hands him the ranch because he, is the dad's eyesight's failing.

[1034] His kid's 22.

[1035] He's like, take over the ranch.

[1036] He's like, I simply can't do this anymore.

[1037] Yeah, I can't see shit.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] So he marries his high school sweetheart, Linda, and the couple go on to have four children and they live on the Crossbell Ranch and what's referred to as the little house, not far from his parents' mansion.

[1041] So the Mollander family's opulence just continues to grow once EC takes over.

[1042] He's like the moneymaker.

[1043] He's spends money like it grows on trees.

[1044] He makes expensive upgrades.

[1045] He goes on sprees where he buys lots of land and livestock.

[1046] And Linda becomes known as the Jackie Kennedy of Osage County.

[1047] Oh my.

[1048] And rarely she's like gorgeous too.

[1049] So this is kind of like Dallas.

[1050] That's exactly what it says.

[1051] Yes.

[1052] It says that in one of the articles.

[1053] Yes.

[1054] So like these are the Dallas people.

[1055] Okay.

[1056] But of course this kind of lifestyle is not sustainable spending all of your money and taking out huge loans and by September 1970 EC's life is falling apart around him.

[1057] He's in debt for $11 million.

[1058] Oh no. Yeah.

[1059] And that's in 1970 money.

[1060] So what is that today?

[1061] Eighty -eight million?

[1062] That's right.

[1063] I would actually, can I look that up in the old translator?

[1064] Do it.

[1065] You love getting that right.

[1066] They did it.

[1067] I have a $10 million.

[1068] Okay.

[1069] Ten million dollars in 1970 is the equivalent of $71 $1 ,285 ,824?

[1070] So we're like...

[1071] In between.

[1072] So how would you say?

[1073] I said 59?

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] It's basically, I think it's like a little bit above one million more of that.

[1076] Can you imagine being that much in debt?

[1077] Oh, dude.

[1078] What do you even spend that much money on?

[1079] Well, it's like, I think probably that kind of thing where he's like used to spending money.

[1080] Yeah.

[1081] And so then it's like, you don't have...

[1082] one car you have eight cars right you don't have six cows you have 27 cows yes and so probably maybe buying land all the equipment like the everything that makes it run your mom's planes that she likes to fly all over those planes she's she's in a private jet looking down over the land yeah everything looks fine she's got an army helicopter that she circles in I mean the easiest thing in the world is to spend money so I think like the more you have the more you yeah I think especially when you grow up with money too probably it's just like it's not a big deal do you yeah so uh parties i'm gonna keep thinking of things to oh like uh what what are the debutante balls for your children yeah for all the kids at the schoolhouse that's right everybody that schoolhouse was so so expensive they had chandeliers in every classroom so um of course he's stressed out because he's 11 fucking million dollars in debt so he does what anyone who's stressed out does back then and now starts drinking and when he drinks he likes to fight he likes to get into fights hello friends hello sir yeah he's not a fun friendly drunk he's a let's fucking fight yeah like so the more they get into debt the more easy drinks and of course it takes a huge toll on linda and their marriage it doesn't sound like he fought her but he made problems yes he likes some chaos exactly so So on September 20th, after a, quote, intense argument, Linda takes the couple's four kids, gets the fuck out of there, moves to Tulsa, and files for divorce.

[1083] Oh.

[1084] So just before midnight, and six days later, on September 26th, 33 -year -old EC is at home.

[1085] And the only other person there is 29 -year -old Damon Anderson, whose nickname is Chubb.

[1086] Oh.

[1087] Which is a great.

[1088] Oof.

[1089] Mm -hmm.

[1090] So he's what I saw in one article called he's EC's, quote, man servant.

[1091] And he had once been a horse thief, but he supposedly left the life of crime behind him.

[1092] And he's been with the family for around four and a half years.

[1093] He works as a driver, a babysitter, a handyman, a ranch hand, and a bodyguard, aka a manservant.

[1094] He does it all.

[1095] He does it all.

[1096] Also, I just was surprised when you just said EC is 33.

[1097] I know.

[1098] Don't you think of like an old fucking ranch?

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] And also that much in debt.

[1101] That's a good point.

[1102] Like, wow, he was working on it.

[1103] I mean, how do you, I just don't even, it's boggling.

[1104] It makes me think that maybe the substance abuses were taking place before that.

[1105] Like the alcohol.

[1106] But you can't just like get drunk and buy shit online back then.

[1107] No, that's true.

[1108] You have to like go somewhere.

[1109] You had to flip through that Sears catalog, all sloppy.

[1110] Like, I get these curtains.

[1111] There's.

[1112] What?

[1113] Say it again.

[1114] I get these curtains.

[1115] What else do you want to buy, ma 'am?

[1116] I just get a rogue match to curtains.

[1117] What color would you?

[1118] you want that in.

[1119] You pick it.

[1120] It's funny.

[1121] That's me on the, are you the operator for Sears?

[1122] I fucking am.

[1123] I'm just trying to get you to keep talking.

[1124] Ma 'am, is there anything you want?

[1125] Did you want to have the beautiful doilies that go with them?

[1126] You know, we should just go over Christmas, look at some toys.

[1127] It's the only thing here, catalogs good for anyway.

[1128] That's the turn.

[1129] Then you and I fight.

[1130] There's always a turn.

[1131] You're mad at me. All right.

[1132] So Chub is there.

[1133] E .C. is there.

[1134] And then what happens next is just a huge gossipy debate thing.

[1135] But what Anderson says happen, Jabbs says happen, is he's upstairs drawing a bath when he hears a gunshot from the basement den.

[1136] He runs downstairs and finds E .C. sitting on the couch.

[1137] His bloody head is slump forward.

[1138] And he'd been badly beaten.

[1139] He had lacerations to his scalp, contusions to his face.

[1140] And also some of his teeth had been knocked loose.

[1141] And he had been shot once between the eyes.

[1142] Oh, my God.

[1143] I know.

[1144] So Anderson's leaning over EC, like, being like, what the fuck?

[1145] And then suddenly he feels like something behind him.

[1146] And he had been shot in the shoulder behind him.

[1147] He jumps to his feet, draws his pistol, and starts chasing after two stocky men in suits who are taking off from the basement den, who had just shot him and shot EC before him.

[1148] Huh.

[1149] Mm -hmm.

[1150] Mm -hmm.

[1151] I don't know.

[1152] Why are they in suits?

[1153] Why?

[1154] Well, here you go.

[1155] I'll tell you why.

[1156] Okay.

[1157] Okay.

[1158] They exit through the sliding glass door.

[1159] Anderson just empties his clip trying to get them, but the men get away.

[1160] Anderson tries to call 911, but the phone had been disconnected due to non -payment.

[1161] So that's the kind of debt.

[1162] Yeah, that's the kind of debt we're talking about.

[1163] Like, even the phone company was like, you're fucking cut off.

[1164] That's crazy.

[1165] The horses are coming in the window.

[1166] Hey, can we get some food?

[1167] What's going on?

[1168] Yeah, this is bananas.

[1169] So Anderson runs 200 jars to the house of the ranch manager to tell him what happened.

[1170] So then they call an ambulance while Anderson drives himself with a bullet wound in a shoulder to the hospital because you're a rancher and that's what you fucking do.

[1171] That's the thing about when you live way out in the country.

[1172] Oh, yeah.

[1173] Either you find out where a doctor type lives nearby.

[1174] To come to you.

[1175] Everything is very, um, you can't get that right now.

[1176] It's not going to be for another hour.

[1177] Like, that's the whole thing is it's real nice.

[1178] You can see all the stars at night.

[1179] but man it can have your own plane but you can't if you're shot then you need to take yourself to the hospital you're just like yeah you can't have pizza delivered and you can't get to the hospital very quickly at all oh jeez six LA love it here hey okay so because the call to the police station is made from five miles away it's like something about the wrong jurisdiction is called so the police officers from another jurisdiction show up and they are all really inexperienced So this is just the beginning of an investigation that's just all errors.

[1180] So outside the house, the crime scene has been described as being like a circus.

[1181] The Osage County Sheriff's Department and the Oklahoma Bureau investigation are assigned to the case.

[1182] But officials from nearby counties just show up to Gock because I feel like nothing like that happens around there.

[1183] And they're like, it's up at the Ewing's house.

[1184] Right.

[1185] Somebody shot J .R. So yeah, everyone's just going to go.

[1186] to see what they can see.

[1187] Totally.

[1188] Because again, there's nothing nearby.

[1189] Right.

[1190] There's nothing happening.

[1191] Of course, any evidence of tire tracks or other physical evidence is ruined because so many people are chomping around.

[1192] Inside the house is just as bad.

[1193] Barely any evidence is collected.

[1194] Just a few fingerprints lifted.

[1195] No hair or blood samples are collected.

[1196] And EC's body is removed before any photos are taken.

[1197] So there's no photos of him in the crime scene.

[1198] And they're told not to, but the funeral home, leans up EC's body and starts the embalming process before an autopsy can be performed and before any samples can be taken.

[1199] So it's just immediately any evidence is just gone.

[1200] And what year?

[1201] 1970.

[1202] Oh, okay.

[1203] So that seems like the kind of thing that would happen.

[1204] Yeah.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] So this means that police can't take test his hands for gunshot residue or take any scrapings from his fingernails.

[1207] Basically, no evidence is collected really.

[1208] Then a private investigator and former detective named Gary Glan is hired by Linda, the wife who had left for Tulsa.

[1209] And he shows up at the ranch.

[1210] He later says the investigative deputies look very young.

[1211] And it's clear they have no idea how to work a murder.

[1212] So Linda fills everyone in on EC's huge debts and how he tried to get loans from known crime figures in Kansas City and St. Louis.

[1213] And so it seems that his murder was a result of a mob hit, which would explain the two assailants, wearing suits.

[1214] Definitely.

[1215] I just feel like people loved bring the mob in in times where the mob, they're innocent?

[1216] Are you giving them a pass?

[1217] Here's the thing.

[1218] I love the mob.

[1219] I think that they are misjudged.

[1220] No, I just think that, like, that's the thing that you see happen all the time where the people that are in the family or in the inner circle are always like, I don't know, it seems like, It seems like the Italians were here where it's like, yeah, I don't.

[1221] It's got to be those mobsters.

[1222] I don't know.

[1223] Well, she has no reason to lie.

[1224] And if he's $11 million in debt, that can't all be on the books.

[1225] True.

[1226] Right?

[1227] No, no, yeah.

[1228] I get that.

[1229] In this case, it definitely seems more possible.

[1230] So it is plausible.

[1231] I will tell, spoiler alert, it is plausible.

[1232] No, but not, but no. But that's, no. Nothing firm.

[1233] That's not what happened.

[1234] Okay.

[1235] Okay.

[1236] Police also question other people who've recently been at the ranch, and some of these people are known crime figures.

[1237] However, there are rumors that EC's death could have been the result of a robbery.

[1238] Others speculate that perhaps he had taken his own life and made it look like a robbery or a crime, a mob hit, so that his family could collect the $15 million insurance policy.

[1239] Yes, that was on him.

[1240] Uh -huh.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] So when this dude, this pruck and private eye glands, here is what Anderson, Anderson, I'm sorry, that's not a great name.

[1243] G -L -A -N -Z.

[1244] Yeah, it's better in the reading than in the hearing.

[1245] Like, Glance.

[1246] So when Glanz hears about what Anderson, the manservant, has to say about what happened that night.

[1247] After he's questioned by the police, he realized that this isn't a mob hit.

[1248] And his professional opinion, Anderson's a fucking killer.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] For sure.

[1251] Yes.

[1252] No pictures of the crime scene were taken, but Glans had been permitted to sketch the crime scene.

[1253] So he knows that Anderson's story doesn't add up to where the bullet holes were located.

[1254] So this guy's like, he's like got his own detective show where he like, you see the pieces, you know, like Matrix style put together in his mind.

[1255] So he's kind of like, yeah, this isn't, this geometrically is not aligned.

[1256] That's right.

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] That's right.

[1259] Also, Glantz feels that Anderson's account is like too much of a John Wayne hero story of him chasing the bad guys out and shooting them out and everything like that.

[1260] he's like this that doesn't happen so he's like not a dreamer i'm not loving the idea of like you wouldn't know some two people were in the room with you until you got shot in the shoulder right but i guess you could run down all hairy because you heard a gunshot but yeah maybe be panicking i don't know though then it's but why would they shoot you like you're not even paying attention why and they just run for it totally i don't know or kill you very true please don't everybody needs to stop spreading rumors about the mob they're innocent This is a mountain Karen is willing to die on.

[1261] I've heard years that I don't like mob stories.

[1262] And now I'm suddenly very sensitive about how they're constantly scapegoated.

[1263] Email us at my favorite murder at Gmail.

[1264] Especially if you're in the Capano crime family.

[1265] That's right.

[1266] Attention.

[1267] Karen Kilgariff.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] So Glan's feels that Anderson's guilty.

[1270] But he has a meeting with him one -on -one.

[1271] And he actually likes the guy.

[1272] and Glans eventually becomes a confidant of Anderson's.

[1273] So Anderson must be really charming because he, like, Glans thinks he did it, but he still likes it.

[1274] But he's like, he's kind of cool.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] He listens to great music.

[1277] That's right.

[1278] Two weeks after the murder, Sheriff Weyman makes a big announcement.

[1279] He knows who's responsible, and he says charges will be filed soon.

[1280] So when Anderson finds out what Wayman says, he calls Glans, and he's like, can we meet?

[1281] I'm fucking worried about this.

[1282] I feel like it's going to be me. So they meet in Glanz's car where Glans has set up this fucking elaborate, especially for the 1970s recording thing that Unsolved Magazine describes as a state of the art, reel -to -reel tape recorder hidden in the trunk of his car and a microphone embedded in the dome light.

[1283] This guy's a fucking private dick.

[1284] He's a real -to -reel.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] Real -to -reel.

[1287] Wire.

[1288] That had to be so loud, though, like in the trunk.

[1289] It's all making screeching noises.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] He was like, oh, my break.

[1292] That was not a quiet machine.

[1293] That's, yeah, this guy is like the original private eye.

[1294] Yeah, he's, what's his face?

[1295] Who's so awesome.

[1296] Columbo?

[1297] Yes.

[1298] He was, yeah.

[1299] Oh, God, he is hot.

[1300] Columbo?

[1301] I know.

[1302] I don't know what I meant by that.

[1303] I think we're, are you thinking, Mike Hammer?

[1304] Is that?

[1305] Stacey Keech?

[1306] I don't know we're talking about.

[1307] Co -Jing.

[1308] NPI?

[1309] I don't know.

[1310] There's something about Colombo that just like makes me feel safe.

[1311] And I think that that is a turn on for me. Absolutely.

[1312] He was very friendly.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] And he would always just show up your house and only have a couple questions.

[1315] Yeah.

[1316] And he just would have one more question.

[1317] Oh, one more question.

[1318] I bet he'd just be like a fun dinner date.

[1319] Absolutely.

[1320] Like there'd never be boring conversation with him.

[1321] I'd never have to feel like I need to fill a conversation with Colombo.

[1322] Also, Colombo is so charming because he's always making really intense eye contact with you.

[1323] Even though he only has one eye.

[1324] Well, he, and he like uses it.

[1325] He hangs a lantern on it.

[1326] I mean, he doesn't try to, yeah.

[1327] Yeah, he's, he's, it almost makes him more intensely, uh, connected.

[1328] Yes, he wants to be connected.

[1329] He's very interested.

[1330] He'll ask you a bunch of questions.

[1331] Okay, let's picture glands as Columbo from here from here on now.

[1332] Sounds good.

[1333] I'm down.

[1334] Um, real to reel microphone embedded in the dome light.

[1335] Insane.

[1336] Genius.

[1337] The microphone that was embedded in the dome light was three feet long.

[1338] You just put your hands up and a baby left.

[1339] He's like, what's that?

[1340] Oh, it's just a. home light.

[1341] Yeah, don't worry about it.

[1342] So Glanz tells Anderson that he doesn't believe.

[1343] He's like, I don't fucking believe your story.

[1344] I like you.

[1345] Don't believe you.

[1346] I think you're lying.

[1347] He tries to offer sympathy telling him that he thinks Anderson killed E .C. and self -defense, because again, he was a fighter when he got drunk.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] Glenn says he could tell by the blood spatter found inside the house that Anderson's fucking lying.

[1350] And he tells Anderson that police should have come to the same conclusion, but they watched the investigation.

[1351] So he totally comes clean on Anderson.

[1352] And he tells Anderson, quote, they might charge you with a crime, but I don't see how there's any way they can prove it.

[1353] Essentially, like, just admit it to me because they fucked up the investigation so much that's not going to hold up in court.

[1354] Right.

[1355] And so this whole time, Anderson's just sitting there quietly, never confirms or denies what Glans is saying, probably because he saw the huge microphone on the...

[1356] Yeah, just like tap, tap, tap.

[1357] I'll say right into here.

[1358] No, sir, you're not correct.

[1359] Right.

[1360] But he says to Glans that he might confess on his death.

[1361] bed, adding, quote, if I get shot through the heart, Gary, come see me quick.

[1362] Wow.

[1363] Okay, so then he's.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] So they don't see each other again for 37 years.

[1366] In the meantime, in December 1971, Linda and the life insurance company settled out of court for $8 million.

[1367] So the $15 million, she ends up marrying her lawyer.

[1368] I mean, they live happily ever after.

[1369] Oh.

[1370] But the $8 million is the largest amount ever paid out in an individual's death.

[1371] and it makes the Guinness Book of World Records.

[1372] Jesus.

[1373] As soon as the settlement, Maine, Glans is told he's no longer needed to investigate the murder.

[1374] So she's basically like, it's settled.

[1375] That's what more can you do?

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] So then the father dies.

[1378] So then his daughter, Kathleen, takes over the ranch until she passes at 1998 at 93 years old.

[1379] And then the ranch is taken over by her daughters.

[1380] So they are able to pay off the debt and figure it out.

[1381] Oh, the women get in there.

[1382] That's right.

[1383] Turn it all around.

[1384] That's fucking right.

[1385] There are fucking planes all over the sky and take care of business.

[1386] They're just like no more crazy spending.

[1387] Let's close this school down.

[1388] You always cut education first in America.

[1389] They always cut education first.

[1390] And no more late night calls to Sears.

[1391] The Sears stuff stops now.

[1392] Then they burn the Sears catalog in the front driveway.

[1393] Meanwhile, Glans becomes one of the nation's premier private detectives.

[1394] but the whole time he still thinks about EC's death, and he is positive that Anderson killed E .C. He figures they got into a fight, but how did Anderson get shot in the shoulder?

[1395] Did he shoot himself?

[1396] These questions kind of haunt him or stick in his mind.

[1397] He keeps up with Anderson's movements and finds out in 1990, Chubb Anderson went on the run after a warrant was issued for his arrest after he was caught running a multi -million dollar marijuana operation.

[1398] Oh, yeah.

[1399] Okay.

[1400] that's a I didn't think you're going to say that yeah that's fine so you're thinking hippie now right yeah um he spent some time in Mexico and then settles in Montana where he works on a bison ranch and assumes a new name and identity um and meanwhile and he does a thing where like you find someone who's deceased and you take their name and identity you know what I mean yeah that's like the identity theft yeah but they're dead so it's like no one will kind of know and I don't know still creepy I don't get identity theft thankfully.

[1401] It's not for me. It's just not my thing.

[1402] It's just not anything I'm interested in doing.

[1403] Yeah, like the mob, I don't care.

[1404] Meanwhile, the mystery is a huge story in the state.

[1405] Like, everyone is like, it is like the Who Shot J .R. thing, essentially, it seems like, right?

[1406] Right.

[1407] So this is a huge story in the state.

[1408] And the subject, it's thousands of newspaper articles are written this.

[1409] A bestselling book is written by reporter John Quinty.

[1410] So in June of 2006, Anderson is arrested after he goes to the hospital seeking treatment for a kidney issue.

[1411] So they realize who he is.

[1412] He's faking his name and shit.

[1413] He serves seven months before he's paroled due to his failing health on that marijuana charge.

[1414] In September 2008, Anderson calls glands.

[1415] They haven't spoken in 37 years.

[1416] Over the next few months, Anderson confesses what really happened on the night of September 26, 1970.

[1417] That evening, Anderson and EC got into a fist fight.

[1418] Anderson couldn't remember why at that point I mean so they're drinking together yeah who among us okay I just imagine some really smoky whiskey neat right yeah and a lot of it a lot of it they're down in the in the rumpus room yeah and they haven't the wife is gone so they don't know how to cook they haven't eaten in fucking days probably no there's no phone so they're just kind of like making do yeah they can't order a pizza so they haven't eaten no so at some point EC pulls out a gun.

[1419] Anderson takes it away and hits him in the face with it and they start to struggle.

[1420] He says the gun goes off shooting EC in the forehead, which is like, it's a pretty specific fucking place to accidentally shoot someone.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] And also that means it has to turn all the way around and like an arc going all the way back to his head.

[1423] Totally.

[1424] Like if they had been able to do an autopsy, they would have seen if it like, yeah.

[1425] So then Anderson's like had to quickly figure out how to cover up the crime.

[1426] So he gets a ranch hand.

[1427] who was waiting outside for Anderson to give him a ride home.

[1428] And he grabs him and he's like, you need to help me cover this up.

[1429] For some reason, this guy agrees.

[1430] And they staged the scene to make it look like two assailants.

[1431] We're responsible.

[1432] Anderson fires some shots through the patio door.

[1433] And then this dude shoots him in the shoulder.

[1434] Can you fucking imagine being like, okay, here's the next step.

[1435] I need a gunshot.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] This is going to get so much more involved, complicated, and we're going to roll the dice.

[1438] I just feel really proud because the second the report to the police is like two guys in suits no no it didn't you called bullshit no fucking way because if they were going to be just separate from my mob theory is if they were going to send out guys the guys would be dressed like they belonged in the area why would you be like here it's the Blues Brothers I wonder what they're doing here 100 % also you would have killed both of them like you would have just killed both of them, or you would have made sure that only one person was in the house.

[1439] So, yeah, there would have been an exchange of gunfire.

[1440] These are cowboys on a, like, cattle ranch.

[1441] Or both E .C. and Anderson would have been killed.

[1442] They're not going to just shoot you in the fucking, right, right.

[1443] They're not going to, no, they're not going to leave one guy with a bullet in his shoulder.

[1444] They're going to be like, oh, that bullet in your shoulder is now going to enable me to put it between your eyes.

[1445] That's right.

[1446] Mm -hmm.

[1447] So, Karen, you are correct.

[1448] Oh, God, it feels so good.

[1449] to not to not being the mob it feels so good to defend the mob and to be right about it right to instinctually know yeah and care once again they were the fall guys god yeah sick of it if it weren't for you defending the honor of the mob so glans tries to speak with the guy who helped him to corroborate the story he won't talk he's worried he'll get him trouble for helping but not knowing that the statute of limitations is to help someone cover up a murder back then was three years.

[1450] So you got away with it.

[1451] Jesus.

[1452] I fucking hate that.

[1453] Eating and abetting?

[1454] And shooting someone.

[1455] Still, Glanz gives police his recordings of Anderson confessing and they are excited at the prospect of finally arresting Anderson and putting this like huge story to bed.

[1456] But then authorities find out that Anderson's been moved to a nursing home due to his poor health.

[1457] And any time they try to talk to him, someone in his close circle fucking drives them away.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] Get out of here.

[1460] You know.

[1461] And that works on the cops there?

[1462] I guess.

[1463] I guess that's fine.

[1464] I don't think about that.

[1465] You get out of here.

[1466] It's just some super bitchy nurse at this restaurant.

[1467] She's like, enough.

[1468] I do not put up with this from anyone.

[1469] I'm in the mob.

[1470] So officers still fill out a warrant for Anderson's arrest.

[1471] However, they never get a chance to serve the warrant because Anderson dies on November 24th.

[1472] 2010, and along with him dies the chance for authorities to finally put an end of this 40 -year -old cold case.

[1473] Yeah.

[1474] The case remains unsolved to this day, unless officers can prove that his accomplice played a bigger role.

[1475] It's unlikely that he or anyone else will ever be arrested for the murder of Millionaire Osage County Rancher, E .C. Mollendor, the third.

[1476] God.

[1477] That was a thrill ride.

[1478] Oh, good.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] Thank you.

[1481] Yeah, that was like, man, it was an oldie, but then truly fascinating.

[1482] Left turns, right turns?

[1483] Yes.

[1484] And because the way you described at the beginning, I thought it was like, it's technically a cold case, but not really.

[1485] Right.

[1486] But it can never be solved.

[1487] I feel like we need to focus on more stories that have deathbed confessions.

[1488] I feel like.

[1489] Don't you dare should challenge me. Should that be the challenge for our next stories?

[1490] Deathbed confessions were just like.

[1491] And then, four years later.

[1492] Why don't you do deathbed confessions next episode?

[1493] Three good ones?

[1494] No, mine's already picked.

[1495] I know, mine too.

[1496] So someday one of us will do deathbed confessions.

[1497] You were assigning me one and you had it all broken out.

[1498] I don't want to steal you.

[1499] You're going to pick three.

[1500] I'm going to write it up on this chalkboard.

[1501] That's my wall.

[1502] Where'd you get chalk from?

[1503] What doesn't make any sense?

[1504] I didn't want to steal your idea, but it's a great idea.

[1505] But we both have stories picked out for the next six weeks.

[1506] So I think we'll slip it in there somewhere and surprise each other.

[1507] We can figure it out for sure.

[1508] Yeah, because that's a good, that's a good one.

[1509] Another great one.

[1510] Thank you.

[1511] You too.

[1512] Yeah.

[1513] There it goes again, everyone.

[1514] Thank you, as always, for listening and supporting.

[1515] But mostly listening.

[1516] mostly listening and then we interpret your listening as supporting i guess that's true yeah it's the same thing although there is a lot of um online interaction where people really convey support which i think is a very beautiful part of this uh podcast host audience relationship yes where we have listeners who really let us know that they care yeah and that they're part of things and that they like us that's really It's like, yeah It really makes it fun It does Because they're all cool people that we like too Except for that one Except for that one You know who I'm talking about Marie Someone crushes their car I love calling out Marie Call out Marie Marie God damn it Knock it off We've done it We're done it again Thanks for listening Our homework is over It's right Stephen Ray Morris Thank you for your support please thank your mother for her beautiful Chippendale's story.

[1517] What's your mom's name again, Stephen?

[1518] My mom's name is Ramona and it was her birthday yesterday actually.

[1519] Happy birthday, Ramona.

[1520] Romona's the most beautiful name.

[1521] I know.

[1522] That's a great name.

[1523] Yeah, it is.

[1524] Thank you.

[1525] Well, you didn't name it, Stephen.

[1526] Jesus.

[1527] But it's fun when Ramona's story gets to make an appearance.

[1528] Absolutely.

[1529] Always.

[1530] All right.

[1531] Well, hey, everybody, stay sexy.

[1532] And don't get murdered.

[1533] Goodbye.

[1534] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1535] This has been an exactly right production.

[1536] Our producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1537] Associate producer Alejandra Keck.

[1538] Engineer and mixer.

[1539] Steven.

[1540] Ray Morris.

[1541] Researchers, Jay Elias and Haley Gray.

[1542] Send us your hometowns and your fucking hoorays at my favorite murder at gmail .com.

[1543] And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at my Fave Murder.

[1544] And for more information about this podcast, our live shows, merch, or to join fan called go to my favoritemerder .com rate review and subscribe