#1074 - Cameron Hanes

[0] Usually I have it, but it goes away after a month or so.

[1] I've had it for like four months, pretty solid.

[2] Ooh, and we're live.

[3] Cam Haynes, how you doing, buddy?

[4] I'm good, how are you?

[5] I'm good.

[6] Welcome to California.

[7] I know, and this place is amazing.

[8] It's pretty badass, right?

[9] Yeah, we did the grand tour, and I'm ready to lift.

[10] Yeah, we're going to shoot first.

[11] I don't want to have poor accuracy.

[12] No, right.

[13] That's like your whole motto of run, lift, shoot.

[14] Yeah.

[15] Shouldn't it be shoot, lift, run, or shoot, run, lift?

[16] i don't know do you do you you run in the mornings and then you run at night too right yeah you have a problem yeah yeah that's a problem yeah that's too much well i i just fall back on the moderation is for cowards so that like pretty much covers any psycho overdoing in excess i'm like just it can be like no i'm just not a coward and what about overtraining is that bullshit yeah yeah it's totally bullshit but you were saying before that when you were 20 you're 50 now when you were 20 you could never do what you could do now when you were 50.

[17] No. So if you tried to do what you do now at 50 when you were 20, wouldn't it be over training?

[18] I'm confused.

[19] Well, I mean, if you weren't in shape, enough, obviously you're in great shape because you do this all the time.

[20] But if you weren't in great shape and you tried to keep this up, like what you're doing right now.

[21] Yeah.

[22] No, I feel, I don't know.

[23] I feel good.

[24] Who is here?

[25] Jamie, somebody just walked in.

[26] Delivery.

[27] Oh, okay.

[28] um so when you were 20 did you do anything um i mean i've always been active right you know i always played sports and ran 10k in the summers and things like that so just worked out a little or something yeah yeah i just wanted to lift a little bit but not you know to the level i'm at now yeah well when i look at your instagram i get tired yeah i do because you're doing all that shit, especially that shit you're doing with outloss strength.

[29] Yeah, Eric.

[30] Eric.

[31] Outloss strength on Instagram.

[32] You guys are doing ridiculous amounts of reps. Yeah, we do.

[33] It's all about the reps. And it's like, I don't know.

[34] And like I say, your body gets used to what you ask of it.

[35] Yeah.

[36] You know, if I would have tried to do that exact same thing when I was young, no way.

[37] I mean, it'd probably be so sore.

[38] I couldn't do anything for a week.

[39] Yeah, that's what I was thinking also when I was looking at.

[40] I was like, if you stopped doing this, how long will it take, before it slides off?

[41] One day.

[42] Because when I don't work out for one day, I'm skinny, fat, and weak.

[43] How many, no, for real.

[44] Like, how many days, what's the longest you've ever taken off?

[45] Oh, probably hunting.

[46] Oh, okay.

[47] If I'm at home, I don't, I would never take any time off.

[48] But when I'm hunting, because that's what I'm, you know, there for.

[49] Right, but when you're hunting, at least you're hiking.

[50] Yeah.

[51] And there's a lot of physical activity.

[52] Right.

[53] There's a lot going on there.

[54] Mm -hmm.

[55] But when I watch your videos, those Instagram videos of you guys, okay, we're going to do 100 reps of this, then we're going to do 100 reps of that way.

[56] Because right now, I told you I'm suffering through this little tendonitis thing that I've been trying to fight off.

[57] So I see all those reps, and my elbow starts hurting when I'm looking at the screen.

[58] Yeah, you know, people ask me about my joints or about, you know, because they're battling different things like that, and I have no idea.

[59] I mean, I just, I don't have, I've been lucky where I don't have injuries, you know, I mean.

[60] That's very disappointing.

[61] Yeah, I mean, I, you know, my, I'm banged up a little bit, but, you know, I've talked to you before where I've had to take Advil every day.

[62] Yeah.

[63] And not anymore.

[64] Well, tell that story, because that's a crazy story.

[65] And I've talked about it on the podcast without you being here, but I called you after Ron DePatrick did a podcast with me. And she was telling me about the dangers of what they call non -steroidal anti -inflammatories.

[66] That's what ibuprofen is.

[67] Right.

[68] And she was saying it ruins your gut biome.

[69] and that it actually causes inflammation.

[70] And so that people that are taking Advil every day for inflammation don't even realize that taking all that Advil actually is causing inflammation.

[71] Right, yeah.

[72] So you quit.

[73] I quit.

[74] And then I wasn't, and I almost think it was maybe placebo a little bit because it's like not only did it not help after a while, but it made it worse, essentially, the inflammation.

[75] So after hearing that and, you know, who's ever going to question Rhonda, I mean, I would never.

[76] So I'm like, well, I better stop that.

[77] So since then, I haven't been taking anything.

[78] And then I have taken, there's this, there's this, you can get at the health food store.

[79] It's called Kratom.

[80] Oh, yeah.

[81] You ever heard of that?

[82] Yeah.

[83] That seems to help.

[84] You know, they're trying to outlaw that stuff.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Apparently, that's, that Kratom stuff.

[87] I had Chris Bell on the podcast.

[88] He's doing a documentary about Kratom.

[89] And he did that documentary, bigger, stronger, faster.

[90] and yeah I know who he is he brought in some guys that sell cratum and they're explaining what it does and I tried it and when I tried it apparently if you take it in low doses it's like almost a mild stimulant which is what it felt like to me but if you take it in higher doses it relaxes you and it's really good for pain and Chris has had hip replacements what did he say about it was a positive or negative there's no negative there's no downsides to it it's not addictive right it's not bad for you it's a it's an herb it's not toxic at all right so that's i mean if so of course the government's trying to make it illegal oh i you can't have stuff out there that actually helps yeah they're trying to label it with fucking heroin and shit it's just they're so crazy yeah yeah no it's uh but i think that's helped but other than that i don't take any i mean nothing and i feel great that's crazy that's amazing so when you're doing all these reps like so you do and you do these crazy things on like the lat pull -down machine where you do the whole stack yeah right mm -hmm the goal is 20 of the stack of everything that's fucking ridiculous so how do you not get like joint pain that doesn't I don't know so it's just because you do it all the time I'm not sure conditioned to it I can't makes you want to do it I know it's but I don't want people to uh I mean it's taking a while to work up there yeah right so I mean I don't want people to go and try to do that right out of the gate and then get hurt because that's what I think that's what frustrates people more than anything is when they're excited to make a change, a lifestyle change, and then something happens, and then, you know, they get hurt.

[91] Yeah, I was doing chin -ups three or four times a week.

[92] I decided I was going to do 50 chin -ups at least three or four times a week.

[93] Just make sure I did them all the time.

[94] And then on top of that, I was doing heavy cleans, 90 -pound cleans with kettlebells, cleans and presses, I started getting this whole nagging elbow pain.

[95] Yeah.

[96] And I didn't want to be a pussy So I kept working out through it And it would be fine Like during the workout It would be fine Like it would start to hurt At the beginning of the workout But then once the blood would get flowing Then it would be fine And then after a couple of weeks of that My arm was like Hey fuckhead Yeah This is enough of this Yeah Cleans are tough though Cleans are hard I mean I know I know what I can get away with I don't do dead lifts You know I used to do deadlifts I used to do all this stuff.

[97] Now I'm like, even though I want to do, I want to maybe every once in a while try deadlift.

[98] Because I know it feels good.

[99] I mean, my hamstrings feel good.

[100] My back feels strong when everything works right.

[101] But I just know that it's just not smart.

[102] There's a high possibility that the chick could go south.

[103] No, something gets tweaked in the bottom.

[104] And then, you know, it's one side.

[105] And then it's, you know, I feel it down my leg.

[106] And I'm like, not, I don't want to be there.

[107] For a while, you were taking that 130 -pound rock and throw it in a back.

[108] backpack going up mountains with that you're still doing that no it's gone my my rock's gone what happened the rock i don't know somebody stole it i guess so you would leave it in the same spot roll it off the side of the mountain there's some dude who probably jerks off on that rock probably this is the cam heans rock sounds fun i wouldn't be surprised i've seen a lot of things online oh yeah there's some there's some great people and there's some crazy people oh this is mostly great people yeah for sure i i find that my interactions online are almost mostly positive like the like by far the problem is that's like having mostly non -poisonous food yeah yeah a little bit of poison yeah all you'd have to do is go to this restaurant one out of ten times they fucking poison you'd never go back to that restaurant right yeah i don't even think it's one out of ten i think the interactions that i have online that are negative it's not even one out of a hundred no i don't So those, for me, those are the ones that I am drawn.

[109] And I find myself, I see the negative, and I go past all these positive, and then I'll say something because just if I'm in a bad mood, after a whole day of getting beat down by stupid comments, so I'll have to do something, then I'll be like, why did I, so then I go back and I like try to acknowledge some positive ones because I feel guilty.

[110] Well, I saw you post a picture of a bear that you shot the other day.

[111] It was a video of a bear you shot.

[112] And I said, ooh, I looked at those comments.

[113] I'm like, here we go.

[114] Which one?

[115] It was you shot a bear and you were opening its mouth and checking its teeth.

[116] Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[117] And I saw that video and I was like, whoa, that's a landmine right there.

[118] Yeah, I know, bear, you know, bear.

[119] It's crazy.

[120] It is.

[121] That is the one animal that I think people have the most distorted perceptions of because of teddy bears and because of yogi and because I really want to take anybody who has these weird.

[122] weird thoughts about bears.

[123] I just really want to bring them to John and Jen's place in Alberta.

[124] Yeah.

[125] And I want to say, why don't you, we're going to come hang around.

[126] And if we're lucky, we're going to see a bear tear apart a baby bear.

[127] Yeah.

[128] Because they do that every day.

[129] All the time.

[130] They get up out of their dens and they go looking for baby bears.

[131] Yeah.

[132] And then maybe if we're lucky, we'll see a bear get a hold of a fawn and it'll be crying and it'll eat that thing alive.

[133] Yeah.

[134] They'll have a different take on it.

[135] They'll be like, kill that.

[136] Yeah.

[137] Just people are nuts They're trying to bring wolves into California Or Colorado rather They're talking about bringing wolves into Colorado Like listen folks You don't have to do that You don't you already have bears You know I saw this the other day I think I put up I think it's what inspired me to put up There was a wolf video I posted There's some great wildlife videos out there Oh it's crazy right Great not They can be emotional Like with that bear kill And the elf calf That was crying That was rough.

[138] I don't even like to see that.

[139] I mean, I'm a hunter.

[140] But there's one where these wolves were chasing down this cow elk.

[141] And, you know, that's not a quick process.

[142] And I put that up because I had seen a couple of celebrities.

[143] And I don't even know who the hell they are, movie stars, I think, or something.

[144] But they're saved the wolf fun or some wolf bullshit.

[145] And they're like howling.

[146] They're two humans.

[147] And they were howling like they were wolves.

[148] and it's like I don't know I mean wolves are great wolves are wolves are one of my favorite animals you know called the wild white fang those books I love those Jack London books when I was young so wolves have always held a special place in my heart but they're straight killers yeah they're organized that's what they do so I mean I'm not hating on them for doing that but you just can't have wolves running around everywhere well yeah you can you can understand right in my neighborhood yeah i was uh at home the other i made uh recording of this because i was at home my dogs are barking like crazy it's like nine o 'clock at night just war war wow wow wow it's like what the fuck is going on and i step outside and these coyotes are like a half a block away from my house just screaming those are wolves those are little wolves and they got a hold of something and then they're celebrating some dude sent me a video that's on his page of it's a compilation of all these videos from security cameras of coyotes killing cats and dogs.

[149] Yeah.

[150] Those are wolves.

[151] That's what they do.

[152] Those are the little wolves.

[153] That's all they are.

[154] I mean, they can breed with wolves.

[155] I mean, they literally are wolves.

[156] It's a fascinating thing, the disconnect that people have with predators.

[157] You know, look, if I was in Idaho or Montana and I saw wolves, I'd be pumped.

[158] I think I would think it would be awesome But you've got to keep an eye on those things folks Yeah You know there's a reason why they killed them off 150 years ago Yeah it wasn't because they're awesome It's because they will kill people They will kill your kids They will kill your dog They will they will They've seen wolves in the wild I saw a pack on Prince of Wales Island One time they came down to the water once And I've seen them I had a wolf tag actually When I was in British Columbia Honey and Buffalo And I thought I was going to get a shot at a wolf up there, but I never have.

[159] Now, they give tags up there because they're trying to diminish the population.

[160] Yeah, I mean, they have too many.

[161] It's 50 bucks.

[162] It's the same as in Alberta.

[163] I mean, we get our bear tags when we go up there to John and Jens and, you know, $50 for a wolf tag also.

[164] So it's not like there's a low number of wolves, you know.

[165] But every time I've seen them, I have been in a certain amount of awe just because there have been like this, this amazing animal for my entire life.

[166] And I've just, it's hard not to look at a wolf and not think regal and wild.

[167] And, you know, there's that saying that, you know, you'll see bears and lions in the circus, but you'll never see a wolf.

[168] Yeah.

[169] You know, they're just, and I did the commercial with the wolf too, which is, which is, which is amazing.

[170] But, well, that under armor commercial, you told me it was pretty crazy because they had this scene where the wolf snarls.

[171] And they had to save that scene for the very end.

[172] Mm -hmm.

[173] Yeah, because it was, they said, you know, it was supposed to be me against a wolf going after this elk.

[174] And then I ended up winning that little, the story, as it was told.

[175] And they needed to get the wolf snarling.

[176] And so they brought some meat out, gave it some meat.

[177] But they said, well, I actually gave it, then took it away.

[178] And obviously that's going to make any animal upset, especially a wolf.

[179] But they said, once we do that, we're done with the wolf.

[180] because it's not going to just snap out of it and it's just going to that's going to be its mindset for a while about it's not going to be happy yeah there it is yeah go back to that i think it shows at the end it should yeah yeah fuck and that was actually i mean people thought that that was edited and it wasn't you know right there with me no it's right there with me um you know they did a great job of putting that commercial together uh it wasn't you know necessarily snarling up me or growling up me but it was there it was it was fun how big was that wolf i think it was about 130 pounds i mean it's tall that that's a big that's what surprised me is how tall they are long legs right yeah and i think you know we were talking about earlier as far as endurance goes wolves i believe are the number one animal out there as far as they can run miles and miles and they're tall and they can just you know their gate is you know whatever it allows them to go for hours and miles yeah i was talking about running with my dog you know and he's only a year old and he's in such good shape now because he runs with me all the time see if we run two miles i run two miles he runs seven or eight right because he's running up and back and up and back and up and back yeah but it's amazing like what how good a shape they're in right out of the box yeah i mean he's a fucking puppy yeah and he just books it up that hill just chrong and he turns around looks at me Come on, bitch!

[181] I know.

[182] And he comes running back to me. Yeah, animals, you know, animals pretty much have the advantage over us on everything other than, you know, I mean, they're stronger, stronger jaws, you know, their muscle stronger for what they have.

[183] We have endurance as a advantage over most animals.

[184] Potential endurance.

[185] Like elk.

[186] But luckily we have, you know, we can use our minds.

[187] Well, that is the reason why we're so weak, you know.

[188] It's so fascinating how things balance out.

[189] Yeah.

[190] It's like us using our mind, creating houses and cities and cars and just sitting in a chair all day.

[191] It makes you soft, but then you figure out how to make a gun.

[192] Yeah.

[193] And that balances everything out.

[194] Yeah.

[195] Unless the gun jams.

[196] And then nature comes back into play.

[197] Yeah.

[198] Yeah.

[199] Yeah.

[200] Yeah, all these people that are, you know, into the wolf, you know, save the wolf, like, the wolf's okay.

[201] Like you guys go to Idaho Like people are freaking out up there Like yeah The wolves are okay Like they're starting to You know You go to Alaska I was in Park City recently In Utah And when I was there We went to a store that had a wolf rug And I was like Jesus I'm like you guys are selling a wolf rug And the guy explained to me He said well these wolves are all shot By the government In Alaska because they're overpopulated.

[202] So they're in these areas where they're trying to protect the moose population for the indigenous people that are subsistence hunters and live up there.

[203] And they have like a certain quota.

[204] And he's like, so it's actually like it's a good thing to sell these rugs because they're going to shoot these wolves no matter what.

[205] They're trying to keep the populations in check.

[206] And I think that's something that these people that have the, because see the problem of like celebrities, it's like they probably didn't think that shit through at all.

[207] They just think this is a cool thing to be a part of Of course everybody wants wolves to live I'll just go and say we've got to support the wolf We've got to save the wolf Yeah And so it looks like a cool thing For you to be a part of I think one of them was Would have been Lisa Bonnet Isn't she's like kind of a hippie right?

[208] Oh she's a super hippie Yeah she got a nose ring Yeah everything She's always She's pretty I remember that Yeah remember it's funny that Bill Cosby Was mad at her Because she was naked in a movie Remember?

[209] She was naked kid in Angel Heart with Mickey work?

[210] And he was mad at that, huh?

[211] He was mad at that.

[212] Isn't that funny?

[213] Yeah.

[214] Funny how things work out?

[215] It's ironical.

[216] Yeah.

[217] It is ironical.

[218] I mean, look, I don't know.

[219] I think wolves are awesome.

[220] Don't get me wrong, folks.

[221] I just don't think, and this is, this was me too.

[222] Before I started hunting, before I started taking regular trips into the woods, you know, you don't get it.

[223] You just don't get it.

[224] You got to go there.

[225] You do.

[226] If you don't go there, you don't get it.

[227] get it yeah you know it's uh we try to tell the story i mean we're telling the story and it's getting through to some people i mean i can see it i can see the there's education there i mean i'm sure you get messages every day from people who have never hunted who are interested in it who just want to know what the lifestyle is because we've sort of romanticized the lifestyle and it's and it's the mountains and the mountains are you know you get that connection and you get that empowerment um so i I think we are kind of turning the tide a little bit.

[228] I got a message from a guy a while back, maybe four or five months ago, who was a vegan for a long time, started listening to the podcast.

[229] At first was upset about the talk about hunting, ran into some health issues.

[230] His doctor recommended he started eating animal products again, started with eggs, worked his way back up to meat, ate meat again, was getting healthy, grass -fed, you know, know, ethically sustained animals, ethically raised animals, decided to go hunting, became a hunter, shot as for his deer, ate as for his deer, and now he's going to be a hunter.

[231] Yeah.

[232] I mean, this guy went full circle.

[233] Part of the journey of him going for full circle was listening to people talk about it on the podcast and realizing this idea that he had in his head that these people that are out there hunting are all people that hate animals and they're cruel and they're just rednecks that are going out there drinking beer and shit.

[234] shooting these animals and laughing and hooting and hollering about it yeah you know well there's a couple points i want to make there one of them is your podcast has been amazing for the education part and i i mentioned this adam and i did a podcast with the gritty bowman and um i said you know jo's podcast just because the the type of person joe is as far as being open -minded um and giving everything a chance not not coming in with biases are the same type of listeners you have you've kind of cultivated or or you know they they like you because i don't know they see themselves and you maybe but anyway so those people have come in and listen to these podcasts like this without that bias and when you listen to it and listen to us talk about it it's not the redneck you know laughing because they're killing things person they may have thought it's you know this whole thing this whole thing we talk about and so this podcast in particular is i think's been a huge tool as far as promoting hunting and ethical hunting and just the empowerment of being a hunter.

[235] And so that, I don't know, just this venue, I don't know.

[236] I don't know if we could have ever done that without, you know, the Joe Rogan podcast.

[237] It's been amazing.

[238] I don't know.

[239] Have you noticed that?

[240] I mean, with other things besides hunting?

[241] I think floating, that's a big thing.

[242] Yeah.

[243] Sensory deprivation tanks, that business was going under.

[244] There was virtually no tank centers in the world.

[245] There was, like, one of them in Burbank, and I had heard one of them was in San Francisco.

[246] They were hard to find.

[247] There was none in New York.

[248] Like, one guy had one in an apartment in New York that you could rent out.

[249] A guy had one like that in his house in Vegas that you could rent out.

[250] There was none.

[251] And now there's hundreds of tank centers all over the world.

[252] And when you fill out a form, dude, I got one in 2002.

[253] I bought a house The house had a basement And I bought the house With the basement For two reasons One, because I wanted to put a tank in there And two, because the yard was big So I could have my dogs Running around the yard I just wanted to have a yard Where the dogs could run around Those are my two requirements for a house Everything else I was like I really don't give a shit about it Yeah Yeah There's the TV sits there And okay Here's where the bed goes I'm a man You know There's things that women A big deal.

[254] Sweat when it comes to houses.

[255] The dudes just don't sweat.

[256] But for me, a big one was I tried to tank a couple of times at this place called Soothing Solutions in Burbank.

[257] I don't even know if it's around anymore.

[258] And then I put a tank in my basement and then I started ranting and raving about it and doing these YouTube videos about it.

[259] And then I got a new tank from the float lab.

[260] So I gave my old tank away online.

[261] I had like a raffle, not a raffle, but like a random draw.

[262] I said, just send me an email.

[263] I gave an email address out.

[264] and I'll just pick a random person So I literally just scroll through my email I'm like, bang, right there And pick this guy out and sent my tank to him And had it set up and sent the salt down to him The whole deal And then that alone, just having that contest And giving away a tank And then putting together this video for the tank Red Band put together this really cool video about it So these tank centers, because me talking about it on the podcast started opening up all over the world To the point where now when you sign up at a lot of tank centers the first time you go there they say how'd you hear about us whether it was through the internet through books or joe rogan like i'm one of the options i'm one of the options on a lot of their questionnaires and that that probably has had even more of an impact than hunting well it's you know it's amazing i i hear it all well people have told me uh you wouldn't be anything without joe rogan that's that's some comments that i've got so you can't see there you go again you're concentrating on the negative ones i know but i wouldn't be bow hunting if it wasn't for you right so there you go well i wouldn't be me if it wasn't for that i wouldn't be the me than i am now so there you go okay well what i put it because i was like god i know i don't know i think we've talked about it before but this podcast gets to more more people than cnn is that right oh yeah yeah for sure so it's and i heard uh jordan peterson talking you heard me don lemon what That's good.

[265] That's good.

[266] Because I trust this more than CNN.

[267] You don't trust CNN?

[268] Oh, you're a redneck.

[269] You're all on that Fox News tip.

[270] Oh, Fox News now.

[271] That's where you get your news.

[272] That's solid reporting.

[273] That is legit.

[274] That's Sean Hannity.

[275] That guy, I trust him, with everything.

[276] Yep, I hear you.

[277] But so, and I heard Jordan, because we're talking about his recent trajectory.

[278] I mean, he's been, I'm assuming he's been brilliant in his whole life.

[279] Well, in the last 18 months or two years or whatever, and I think a lot of that is because of here.

[280] So I put in my phone, I was like, I'm going to do some research on Joe Rogan before this.

[281] I'm going to turn the tables on him.

[282] I'm going to podcast him.

[283] So I was like putting in their Joe Rogan influence or Joe Rogan effect or whatever, and I couldn't find anything.

[284] So I think I think I need to write something to quantify that.

[285] But, yeah, this gets to so many people.

[286] It gets to a lot of people.

[287] But in all honesty, like just being not even just trying to be humble, but all I'm doing is talking about shit that's out there.

[288] It's real simple.

[289] It's like I'm not really doing anything unusual other than that.

[290] Just being open -minded, which I try very hard to do.

[291] Yeah, but when you say you just do this and just do that, nobody else does that.

[292] They come in with these biases.

[293] You know, so you say that's a problem.

[294] Yeah, you say you just do that.

[295] That's a big thing.

[296] Yeah.

[297] I think people need to stop doing that.

[298] I think that's a big part of the problem we have in this world.

[299] And I was talking with Dan Harris from Good Morning America.

[300] That's what he's on, right?

[301] Yeah.

[302] And he used a word that I love, a term that I love, toxic tribalism.

[303] Yeah.

[304] You know, so, I mean, you see that with CNN versus Fox News.

[305] It's like neither one of them want to look at things objectively.

[306] Fox News has a very clear right -wing bias, CNN has a very clear left -wing bias, and they just go to war with each other.

[307] And then the president's calling everybody fake news, and it's hard to see what's really going on.

[308] People want to look at their side, they want to defend their side, and they never want to say, okay, I see this guy's point.

[309] But you've got to be able to see people's points.

[310] I mean, that's one thing that I always say about vegans after I make fun of them.

[311] I say, I understand why you would want to do that, and I think it's a compassionate choice.

[312] I get it.

[313] I totally understand.

[314] So do I. I do.

[315] And I support their decision.

[316] I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

[317] I think you should be real careful with your health if you're doing that, though, and I'm not bullshitting.

[318] This is not me being facetious.

[319] Mead.

[320] Yeah, I'm not being a meathead.

[321] You should be careful with your health.

[322] There's a lot of things that you should probably check.

[323] B12 is a big one.

[324] That's a huge issue with vegans.

[325] is B -12 deficiencies.

[326] And I think if you are a vegan, you should consider supplementing with things that you don't have a problem with eating, like maybe even some cricket protein or mollusks, like shellfish.

[327] People should look into shellfish.

[328] Shellfish, not only are they sustainable, but they're so primitive.

[329] They don't even have like a neurological system.

[330] Like they don't feel any fucking pain.

[331] Like you could eat clams all day long.

[332] They don't know what the fuck is going on.

[333] This is, we have this idea about clams because they do that.

[334] clothes that somehow oh the poor little thing is just trying to hide like that those pearls in there yeah no that's oysters oh okay i don't know anything about either i know about bow hunting yeah yes you do yes you do but to me um meat tastes better yeah you feel better too no but as you were saying i mean yeah i don't have a problem with vegans or their diet or and i understand i mean you know if you think about um killing an animal nobody wants to kill animals right i mean that's not i don't know that's never you don't want to kill an animal for no reason no you want the meat of the animal the act of killing it is not right not enjoyable no it's it's part of the process it's a weird sense of loss right yeah yeah and so i i get that they're like well i don't want to i don't want to kill any animals i get it that's fine yeah but yeah just have having that, you know, the biases that come with it is what causes problems.

[335] Well, they're doing what they think is good to shame people who eat meat or attack people who eat meat and especially attack people who actively go out and kill the animals themselves because they think that somehow or another it will lessen the amount of animals that are killed.

[336] I think the opposite happens.

[337] I think it shores up people's aggression towards vegans.

[338] They get it.

[339] They firmly plant their heels on the other side of the line.

[340] And they're like, fuck you, hippie, greeny, asshole, tree -hugging bitches.

[341] Yeah.

[342] Go eat your sprouts.

[343] Right.

[344] I'm going to go over here and eat burger.

[345] I mean, there's a lot of people that go out and eat burgers because of that.

[346] Probably, yeah.

[347] You know, my friend Mike Hockridge from BC, you met him.

[348] Mike was dealing with people from Vancouver that were sending him hate mail because of wolves.

[349] Now, where he lives, he lives in the real British Columbia.

[350] Right.

[351] Where there's fucking wolves and grizzly bears everywhere.

[352] We found a wolf kill while we were up there.

[353] It was pretty wild.

[354] The wolf had got a hold of a moose calf.

[355] It just tore it apart.

[356] A pack of wolves.

[357] Hair all over the place.

[358] It's what they do.

[359] It's pretty fresh, too.

[360] But he's shot a bunch of them.

[361] And somehow or another, some group of people found out that he shot wolves.

[362] And where he lives, you get an unlimited amount of wolf tags.

[363] They're trying to kill wolves as much as possible.

[364] You can kill 100 wolves a day if you can.

[365] And that's totally legal.

[366] Because they have ranchers up there And like one of I think one of his neighbors They Wolf was in the middle of the winter A wolf got a hold of one of the cows Like a bunch of wolves a pack So these people are in their house And they're listening to a pack of wolves Tear apart a cow That's like you know One 100 yards from their fucking bed Scary freaky shit Right They live in the real while So these people were sending them All these death threats And so he said look Every time you guys send me one of these I'm going to shoot a wolf in the guts Yeah Radio silence they stopped yeah he said to this lady said every time you send me an email i'm gonna shoot a wolf in the guts yeah well i don't know she's probably in front of her keyboard going yeah yeah that was a tough one that was a tough one yeah yeah you know at bc was they're just outlawed grizzly hunting yeah up there because of that they did a a poll in i think vancouver and um not only that they did a very limited email poll with about three thousand participants right yeah and 76 % of 3 ,000 people said that they didn't they were opposed to grizzly bear hunting but i think if you're going to have any kind of a poll like that you should have to have these people educated first as to what they're voting about do you really understand what it's like up there i know because if you talk to mike mike shot a grizzly bear in the head from like 20 feet away as he was trying to get into his cabin like they are fucking ferocious and they're huge, and there's a lot of them.

[367] There's no shortage of grizzly bears in British Columbia.

[368] No, but it's that whole education piece, but that's, I mean, you could take that to even voting in our elections.

[369] Sure.

[370] I mean, we need to educate people.

[371] People need to be educated on the topics, not just hunting, but everything, but they can vote.

[372] Their vote still counts.

[373] It's like you can't tell people they can't vote because that's fucked up.

[374] You can't say, well, you have to have a certain amount of education or you can't vote.

[375] No, but what they need to do is trust the people who do now.

[376] Yeah.

[377] You know, like up there, the biologists who actually have boots on the ground and there are no what Grizzly are doing and how many there are, let's go and trust those people.

[378] It's hard to see when you're in Vancouver, though.

[379] The problem is you're in Vancouver.

[380] You're eating at a nice sushi restaurant.

[381] You're hanging out with your friends.

[382] You know, you're going to the movies.

[383] Everything's beautiful.

[384] Vancouver's so nice.

[385] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[386] You look at the mountains.

[387] You whistle her off in the distance.

[388] Oh, it's so pretty.

[389] I don't want to kill a bear.

[390] Don't kill the bears.

[391] But if you just go on a six -hour car ride, just keep going north, keep going north, get out of your car.

[392] And I want you to go for a two -mile hike into the woods.

[393] Just go for a two -mile hike.

[394] And I want you to sit there for a day.

[395] Just sit there for a day.

[396] You're going to see some shit.

[397] And you will realize, oh, oh, this is a different world.

[398] This world is a wild world.

[399] Like these things out here, they don't give a shit if people are really.

[400] are there doing what they've always done the bear running around looking for shit to eat the animals are running around looking to get the fuck away from things that are trying to eat them yeah and this is how they've always existed yeah yeah i know and it's you know those bear and it's just like the the wolves killing the cow you said 20 feet from the wherever they lived i mean that's just what they do but and that's what grislies do grislies are going to kill they're going you know if they can kill a moose calf or an elk calf or a deer fawn they're not wasting a bunch of energy chasing a full grown animal around.

[401] So they're using less energy, burning less calories.

[402] They get an easy kill.

[403] They get high protein.

[404] That's just what they do.

[405] But the reason why we need to kill them is we're not, they're never going to stop doing what they do.

[406] We just need to control the numbers.

[407] So how often that's happening.

[408] If that's happening too often because there's too many of them, well, then the moose and elk numbers go down.

[409] You know, it's just balancing act.

[410] And people will say, well, just let animals take care of themselves.

[411] They always have been.

[412] And it's like, no, we've always hunted.

[413] it's just now that people are saying well we shouldn't hunt you know so they're trying to take man out of the equation now man's always been in the equation as far as hunting yeah I think people have an idea about it based on the excess that people have committed I mean people have committed some atrocities when it comes to animals in this country alone everyone's seen those stacks of buffalo heads and when they were doing market hunting in particular in the 1800s and many people attribute that to hunters erroneously that's not really what it was What killed off all those animals was a thing called market hunting.

[414] And this is back, people have to realize, there was no refrigerators back then.

[415] And so, you know, you weren't like getting steaks and freezing them, and there was not a lot of, like, large -scale agriculture back then either.

[416] There was a few ranchers and farmers.

[417] But when people had all these animals that were out in the wild and they could hire these people that were in the military that had just gotten done with the war and they were good shots, this would be a good way to make.

[418] a living go out there and shoot some buffalo bring back the tongues buffalo tongue was a like they would shoot a giant buffalo and just take the tongue they'd take the hides and you know sometimes they would take the meat and then they wiped out almost everything they wiped out most of the deer most of the elk most of the antelope until guys like Teddy Roosevelt came along and went whoa whoa whoa whoa hit the fucking breaks yeah like we got to protect these animals we got to protect this land we've got to protect these animals we got to set up private or public land, rather, where you can't do anything to it, where people could just roam and hike and camp and fish and hunt and do whatever you want.

[419] And we've got to make sure we protect these animal populations because they got down to some incredibly low number of elk at the turn of the century, right?

[420] Yeah, well, I mean, they almost wiped out buffalo completely.

[421] I don't know what the elk got to, but I know, you know, as, you know, as conservationists, we like to say that hunters are conservationists now.

[422] but so one of the figures that we share is that there's more animals now than there was a hundred years ago so i don't know what they were a hundred years ago what the numbers were but yeah very low not only that there's more white -tailed deer today than when columbus landed although columbus really didn't really get here when columbus landed in the bahamas there's more white -tailed deer here than now and part of that is because of farming you know which is real weird like Like, a white -tailed deer is a weird animal.

[423] Yeah.

[424] Like, they're kind of a farm animal in a lot of a way.

[425] Yeah.

[426] And it's almost like, you know, if you're doing it right as far as killing the older bucks, you're almost farming.

[427] You know, you're not harvesting when they're young.

[428] You're waiting until they're mature.

[429] And so it's almost like, you know, you're letting that crop age, essentially.

[430] What is this, Jamie?

[431] In 1910, the U .S. Forest Service estimated there were only between 500 and 1 ,000 elk in Colorado.

[432] Holy shit And now there's 100 and what 25 ,000 Oh, I'm sure I mean 150 ,000 I don't know There's a fuckload There's a lot more than that The number's a fuckload There's 10 million Okay it says The elk population In North America stood at about 10 million Animals before European settlers came And systematic wholesale hunting began Wow That's amazing Colorado became famous For his trophy hunting And European gentlemen traveled here To try their luck Sir George Gore I heard that guy was a cunt I'm just making that up He's a trophy hunter He's a trophy hunter For whom Gore Pass Near Kremlin is named Came from Ireland To hunt in western Colorado He shot elk and deer From the bed of a wagon What a dick That's road hunting He only took prime hides And large antlers And left to meet to rot Oh boy, what a bad person That's that sentence right there That's what people still think happened I don't know anybody who ever does.

[433] That's illegal, first of all.

[434] That's poaching.

[435] That's a good thing, the good thing to point out.

[436] It is illegal to not take the meat.

[437] Not only is illegal to not take the meat, you have to take the neck meat in Colorado.

[438] You have to cut out the neck meat.

[439] All edible meat.

[440] All the edible meat.

[441] And even between the ribs.

[442] I mean, there's a little, I don't know about if that's a law in Colorado.

[443] I know in Alaska.

[444] Yeah.

[445] Yeah, you kill a moose.

[446] You're even taking that meat in between the ribs.

[447] I mean, you're taking all edible meat.

[448] there and so people say well are you one of those trophy hunters or you know you just don't take the head and leave it to rot it's like you can't do that why would you do that anyway it's so stupid well i wouldn't do it but it's illegal anyway if you walk down the street if you if you eat steak and you walk down the street and you saw like for some reason someone had put coolers of prime rib eyes just sitting there you'd be like what the fuck is this here for like what's we'd look around.

[449] Is there anybody here?

[450] I've got to take this.

[451] What is this?

[452] You can't just leave this here.

[453] You left it here to rot.

[454] So why would you do that when you're hunting?

[455] That's just you finding it, right?

[456] Yeah.

[457] Probably you would not eat it now that I think about it.

[458] You'd be like, what is this?

[459] A trap?

[460] I get the point you're making that.

[461] The point I was making is if you go through all the effort to go hunt and you do eat meat, of course you're going to eat the meat.

[462] Not only that, the meat you're eating is incredibly precious.

[463] Yeah.

[464] Like elk meat is incredibly it's so delicious.

[465] Well, here's what I know.

[466] So when we go hunting, and I can speak for myself.

[467] I'm sure I can speak for you too.

[468] Speak for me. When you go hunting, you bring back all the meat you can.

[469] You eat all the meat you can of that animal.

[470] You like sharing it.

[471] The typical, I'll just say American, but waste 40 % of their food.

[472] Not just what they buy.

[473] You know how I'm done now in the garbage type thing?

[474] Yeah.

[475] So hunters, I know I don't do that.

[476] If I kill a bull and I bring all that meat home, 40 % of that's not going in the garbage.

[477] No, it's no chance.

[478] So it's because we are, we have that connection with the animal.

[479] To me, it'd be, I don't know if I'm thinking about it, it'd be disrespectful, but I just, it's worth, there's so much value in it, I would never throw it in the garbage.

[480] You know what I mean?

[481] But when you buy it at a store, whatever.

[482] You know, I'm not saying people are putting, you know, 40 % of prime rib in the garbage, but just as a rule, we waste a lot of food.

[483] I think it would be a good thing for every single human being to grow some vegetables, and if you eat meat, to once in your life kill an animal.

[484] I think everyone should do it.

[485] I really do.

[486] There was an article that I tweeted today about that, I forget the subject, the title of it, rather, but it was something along the lines of it's not healthy to hide.

[487] from the fact that there's there's death involved in eating meat right something that I did a terrible job of paraphrasing that we find what that title is so article okay we shouldn't hide the gory teeth details of how meat reaches our plate right what are those are those chickens oh yeah yeah and I think that's very very important and I think that like what I'm looking at right there that's their life right there that's their life yeah it's fucked up because I eat chickens, but I don't eat my chickens.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Like someone said, do you eat those chickens?

[490] I'm like, no, there's not like my pets.

[491] It's weird, right?

[492] But I'll eat the shit out of some chicken.

[493] Yeah.

[494] But when you think of it like that, I mean, so when we're looking at this picture, I know people are listening to the podcast, can't see the picture.

[495] But, I mean, we're looking at an enormous warehouse.

[496] I mean, enormous.

[497] It looks like several football fields long, and it's filled with chickens that are just stuffed on top of each other, right?

[498] Yeah.

[499] And that's their life.

[500] until they get killed.

[501] And when you think of that, okay, would I rather do that or would I rather procure my own meat hunting?

[502] You know, everybody would say that's not right.

[503] And I believe hunting is a noble way of procuring meat.

[504] Yeah.

[505] And I think when you look at that, but people don't see that.

[506] They don't think about that.

[507] When they order their, you know, chicken nuggets, they're not thinking about that.

[508] No. You know?

[509] Just hungry.

[510] Just hungry.

[511] It's just too easy to get food.

[512] I really think it's too easy to get food.

[513] That's why we're such fatos.

[514] That's a big problem.

[515] But it's also just, it's also too easy psychologically because we just don't have any, any connect.

[516] I think you should have a connection if you're eating a living thing.

[517] It just seems, it just seems like you should understand what it is.

[518] Just for your own mind, for your own, for just for a sense of balance.

[519] Yeah.

[520] And 97 % of Americans eat meat.

[521] Eat meat.

[522] And something like 65 % of vegans when they get drunk eat meat.

[523] really yeah some crazy number some crazy it might be higher than that i think i read it was like 84 % of vegans see i'm just making up numbers at this point that's fine it doesn't matter that might have been a tweet i read so anybody might have just made that up who's going to audered us so but so a vegan drunk yeah so meat's like an ex -girlfriend yeah right it's like an ex -girlfriend yeah yeah so you get drunk if you're lonely you're texting your ex -girlfriend and you're eating a hot dog is that right Yeah, same thing.

[524] Yeah, exactly the same thing.

[525] Okay, I got it.

[526] It's a little over a third that confessed to eating meat when they're drunk.

[527] Oh, then it's 100 % because three quarters of them are liars.

[528] Yeah.

[529] Surprising number of drunk vegetarians secretly eat meat.

[530] That is an awesome picture right there.

[531] I love that picture.

[532] The problem with this thing is this is a third of people that they asked.

[533] And British vegetarians.

[534] Oh, British people.

[535] It's a totally different animal.

[536] They fucking hate hunters.

[537] They love saying cunt.

[538] Oh, did I see, did I see effing cunt in there?

[539] Did you say that?

[540] Really?

[541] I thought I did.

[542] I've been looking for it.

[543] Oh, no. Fleshing out.

[544] Close enough.

[545] I like how you said effing, cunt.

[546] We didn't say fucking cunt.

[547] No, that's the cuss word.

[548] Yeah, they do love to say cunt.

[549] But they're the most delusional.

[550] There's like South Americans.

[551] They're super delusional.

[552] No hunting.

[553] Brazil for some strange reason.

[554] I know.

[555] I get a lot of hate from Brazil.

[556] But they love me. You go to Brazil.

[557] invented the chuhascaria chuhazcarias are this shit man yeah did we go to one when we went to Brazil is that where they threw the plates yes right oh that's right yeah yeah they threw the plates yeah they fucking chuck plates like frisbys and shatter them yeah they know how to party in Brazil they do and it's just meat on meat on meat meat you get a a card it's got green on one side and red on the other a lot of people have been to these like fogo de chow is a great one that's here in l .a and all over the country but that's what they ate they're famous for me When you're done with the meat, you give him the red card.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Yeah, you flip that card over.

[560] You're like, you're done.

[561] It's green on one side, red on the other.

[562] Yeah, you tap out.

[563] Yeah, we go to town.

[564] Nobody can fuck with Ari Shafir when it comes to that place.

[565] Nobody.

[566] Really?

[567] No, I've never seen.

[568] Look, when me and Ari go to eat, generally speaking, I'm more of a glutton than him.

[569] I'll eat more than him.

[570] Yeah.

[571] But not at that place.

[572] Really?

[573] There's something about, like, all you can eat.

[574] I think maybe it's some, like, because his dad was in the Holocaust or something.

[575] something like that yeah like or he's just like because it's free because it's like you could he just won't stop i've never seen anything like it i go like where are you putting all this fucking food everyone's done joey diaz is done i'm done eddie bravo's done we're done we're just sitting there like this like are he still i'm like you're still on green you're still in green he's like i'm still on green yeah the guy will come over got lamb chops lamb chops yes bring the lamb chops i can't i've never seen anything like that stuff is so good though especially in Brazil there.

[576] they know how to do it.

[577] And they have grass -fed meat over there, too.

[578] They're not fucking around with the corn fed and all that.

[579] They don't have the sick fat cows that we have over here.

[580] Mm -hmm.

[581] But it is weird how you get a lot of hate from people over there.

[582] But it's because of the propaganda and the negative aspects of trophy hunting.

[583] Like when you see a guy standing there with a dead elephant or some shit like that, like, why how fuck would you kill an elephant?

[584] Like that kind of stuff in people's mind.

[585] Or a giraffe.

[586] Why the fuck would you kill a giraffe?

[587] Like, people have this.

[588] idea that these people just go over there to kill things and so this is what trophy hunting is so they see you with an elk like oh you piece of shit why just go over there and shoot that thing like yeah no this is my food for a year yeah like you're you're going to that goddamn steakhouse and you keep that thing on green what do you think you're doing yeah you're killing yeah killing with your credit card i know it's uh well all we can do is try to educate and share the you know share the lifestyle it's like I think it's important um to be leaders and and how we share that you know because I see things that I wish weren't shared sometimes I mean I've I've even made mistakes I'm not trying to say that I got I'm dialed in and I never make a mistake mistake on what I post or whatever but I just think we need to be stewards of hunting and and if we do it right we're not going to get everybody we're not going to educate everybody because there's some that just won't listen.

[589] But we can make some inroads.

[590] I think we have.

[591] And I think it's important to relay experiences because I think there's things to be learned from a lot of experiences, you know, like talking to you and talking to Courtney Gold -Dolter about just ultra -marathons and endurance running.

[592] There's something to be learned from that about the kind of mindset that it takes to do that.

[593] I think having these conversations with you guys has changed the way I look at those things Like fuck man before I met you I never ran I'm running all the time now Did I run all the time?

[594] I don't know You look slim I mean have you lot How much you weigh?

[595] Like 196 Oh so you're about the same No I'm a little lighter Oh are you?

[596] I was up to like 204 when I was a fatso Oh okay That was the fat I thought you looked slimmer I'm a little maybe a little slimmer Maybe I'm like 195 or 1904 And 194 is when I'm pretty lean I've got a full six -packed at 194.

[597] When I hit about two, when I get to 200, that's when I start, I go, okay, we better start doing the fasting again.

[598] Yeah.

[599] When I really get into my intermittent fasting, I'll spend either 14 or 16 hours without eating in a day.

[600] I only eat for like 8 or 10 hours in a day.

[601] I eat about every 30 minutes.

[602] I'm actually starving.

[603] Are you starving right now?

[604] No. But you're in a different thing, though, because I'm eating mostly fat.

[605] And, you know, a lot of guys are on that carnivore diet now.

[606] When we had that Sean Baker in here, that doctor, you know, the Bells, Chris Bell and Mark Bell, those guys are both on the carnivore diet now.

[607] They don't eat anything but meat all day.

[608] Wow.

[609] Yeah, Mark says he's never felt better.

[610] So he's thin, he looks ripped.

[611] If you look at his Instagram page, he's fucking jacked, shredded.

[612] It's also on steroids.

[613] That probably helps.

[614] But he looks good.

[615] Yeah.

[616] Well, it's, I don't know.

[617] One of my favorites.

[618] Yeah, look at a picture.

[619] Sammy just goes, Jesus Christ.

[620] Yeah, look at him.

[621] Look at that picture.

[622] Oh, my God.

[623] All he's eating his meat.

[624] All he's eating his meat.

[625] Jacked.

[626] Jacked.

[627] Stud.

[628] Plus steroids.

[629] A little bit star rights there.

[630] But whatever.

[631] Yeah.

[632] Who's that Mark Bell?

[633] Yeah.

[634] He's a fucking animal.

[635] I watched the...

[636] Bigger, stronger, faster.

[637] Is that what it was?

[638] Yeah.

[639] His brother was on there, right?

[640] Three brothers, and one of them died.

[641] One of them died.

[642] They hit a drug.

[643] problem he was a pro wrestler yeah yeah that's the one I watched is yeah it was a powerful document it was it was it was pretty sad I mean he wanted you know his brother wanted to make it be something it's just like a lot of us you know and you know it's hard to say well he ran into the problem that I've seen many people run into those goddamn prescription pills they're so scary yeah they're one of the scariest things that are in modern society and it's something that's not talked about enough you only hear it talked about from family members of people that have lost people or close friends of people that have lost people.

[644] But it's a, it's a giant problem in this country.

[645] We're losing thousands of people every day to pain pills.

[646] Yeah.

[647] Well, I, you know, I put something up not long ago about suicide.

[648] And it was amazing how many people sent me messages.

[649] I mean, how many people are affected or just are dealing with negative thoughts of their own.

[650] And little many battles.

[651] And it's just like that one post, I don't know.

[652] I think people just need to know that there's people out there that care, you know.

[653] But I don't know how with when they get in that cycle of pills, I don't really know.

[654] I'm not a doctor.

[655] I don't know how that works.

[656] I don't know what they're dealing with.

[657] I just know that, you know, social media can be used.

[658] It can be irritating sometimes.

[659] But man, it can be good, especially for people like that, just able to reach out and maybe, you know, get some.

[660] support or encouragement or something yeah and it's well for someone that they admire like you that's gigantic you know if they can they can read something like that sometimes that's all people need just a little wind in their sale yeah just a little something just a little something yeah i'm not saying i did anything i always said you know it was it was in the news there's a quarterback up at washington state that killed himself you know he's going to be the starting quarterback on the football team 21 years old and he shot himself a few weeks ago and and i didn't want i don't want to say that well because I don't want to say that, well, it's because it's an athlete.

[661] That's why anybody cares, you know.

[662] But it's anybody, it's any person who's 21 years old.

[663] I'm thinking, what a tragedy that is.

[664] But it just, that was in the news.

[665] So it happened.

[666] And so that's why I put it up.

[667] And for no way, I can't do anything.

[668] It's not like I'm, I don't, I'm, I just wanted people to be aware and just to have that number to call in case there was a 21 year old feeling that exact same way.

[669] And this is seemingly some kid who had everything.

[670] I mean, a college quarterback, and it's just like, it just breaks my heart to think that they would get to that, he would get to that point where, you know, killing himself was the answer.

[671] Well, it's even harder for younger people because they don't have a lot of life experiences and they don't know that, like, a guy like you or I who's lived a long time and have seen a lot of shit, you've gone through your ups and downs, and when you hit it down, you go, well, this sucks.

[672] But I know it's going to get better Just got to figure out why it sucks Address why it sucks I apologize if you need to Correct whatever the issue is That's making you feel like shit Pull yourself out of it Do a bunch of positive things Next thing you're gonna be okay again And sometimes when you're 21 years old Do you think the world's over?

[673] You know I mean I remember when my girlfriend dumped me When I was 18 I was so fucking bummed out I couldn't imagine I couldn't imagine living without her I was like, I can't believe that this is over.

[674] I can't believe.

[675] You're so devastated because you're fucking, you're a baby.

[676] Right.

[677] You're an 18 -year -old baby.

[678] You don't know jack shit.

[679] But when you get older and you've had more life experiences and more things, you get more perspective and you kind of understand like what this feeling is, this bad feeling.

[680] And you just know, well, hey, I just got to get the fuck out of the house.

[681] I got to go hang out with my friends.

[682] I've got to go do a bunch of positive things.

[683] Go hit the gym.

[684] Take a yoga class.

[685] Do something fun.

[686] And then everything's going to be okay.

[687] Yeah.

[688] realize, hey, you know, look, life's not perfect.

[689] There's no such thing as a perfect life.

[690] It doesn't exist.

[691] You're going to have ups, you're going to have downs.

[692] But when you're 21 years old, it's very difficult to see that.

[693] And also, who knows what else is going on in his life, whether it was pills or whether it's head trauma.

[694] A lot of football players wind up killing themselves.

[695] It's not a coincidence.

[696] Yeah.

[697] It's directly related to head drama.

[698] Yeah, I'm not sure.

[699] I don't want to speculate on any of that.

[700] It's just, I just, you know, I just.

[701] it's horrible i get a lot of i just you know when you said well you go hang out with your friends it sometimes because i've been in certain groups where even my friends aren't positive you know what i mean so you're like that even makes it worse they can so i mean that's where i see the the positives of social media and i wish i could respond to everybody who sends me message and just say hey you know and it's cliche keep hammering or whatever but i know i know i get inspiration from people online and And if I get a shout out, it feels good.

[702] Sure.

[703] Doesn't mean anything.

[704] The Rock wears your t -shirt?

[705] It doesn't mean.

[706] I don't know if it means.

[707] It doesn't mean anything.

[708] It does something.

[709] But it does to me, you know?

[710] And so I just know what it's like to be in a small town and to not, I'm not saying I didn't have any positive friends or whatever, but I would know what it'd feel like to not have anybody to really lean on, you know?

[711] Yeah.

[712] And so I try to think about maybe people like I was.

[713] And, man, I just think we can.

[714] I don't know together shit we can we can do a lot of positive things I just it just like I said it breaks my heart to think of people um living negative yeah each day I agree with you and I think that's one of the things that social media can do that's positive and also podcasts can do that's positive is it exposes you like there's people that are listening to this conversation right now that they're taking comfort from it like they might be either stuck in a shitty job or they might be alone and they're here with us they're here hanging out and they realize those people like us out there this friendly positive people out there yeah even if you're alone at least you're not around negative twats right you know there's a lot of negative people around and it's unfortunate that they're negative i wish you could fix them all yeah but sometimes life gives you these lessons in the form of disastrous lives that you witness and you see these disastrous lives and you just go, oh my God, I got to get the fuck away from this crazy asshole and live my life in a more positive, productive way because I see what can happen if you blame the world for all your problems and all you do is hate and you hate on people that are successful and you hate on people that are whatever, wealthy, good -looking, whatever the thing, pick the thing, girls that are thin, whatever the thing is that you hate on.

[715] There's so many people out there that waste all of their energy doing that.

[716] and if you're around them you can't fix them it's so hard to fix people but what you can do is see what they're doing that's so negative and just completely degrade the quality of their life and just don't do that and recognize recognize that this is not the way to live and then go listen to a podcast with some positive people and say look at this guy this guy's out there eating healthy doing good things he lost 15 pounds she went running and he decided to start doing marathons and he did this and this guy's building a fucking house you can you can find a lot of positive examples of people online today that's that's one of the reasons why i'm so drawn to ultra running i mean because what whether you like running or not the people that do that are some great positive people i mean they're savages oh but they're also you get so use of winning those many battles in a long run and you I mean you have to and you get strength from each other so at the finish line or during the race is you can get a bond um there's a saying you know he who sheds his blood with me will be my brother and it's like it's not that's probably derived from war and I get that and it's not like a war or anything like that but it's going through a mini battle and when you do that with somebody and you share that experience you get that connection and it's like and it's why even though I don't know Courtney that well I know what she does and I really look up to her ability to just be a beast and that whole environment the ultra running environment and community is is empowering for me for sure and and that's that's why I love even just being around people like that it just makes you better well they're they're exceptional yeah those are exceptional people there They have an exceptional mind.

[717] To be able to endure something like a 238 -mile race through the Moab Desert, you've got to be something special.

[718] Yeah.

[719] There's a little thing in the back of your head that says, why don't you just sit down?

[720] Why don't you just quit?

[721] Enough is enough.

[722] We already ran five miles.

[723] Yeah.

[724] We already ran.

[725] That's enough, man. You ran a marathon.

[726] That is enough.

[727] You ran two marathons.

[728] You just sit the fuck down.

[729] We just sit the fuck down and take a nap.

[730] But you have to be able to shut that off.

[731] And most people can't shut that off.

[732] I just can't, you know.

[733] It's tough.

[734] It's amazing.

[735] I mean, my brother was with me on that last one.

[736] And it's weird to share an experience like that with somebody because you can be similar, but in the course of something like three days like that, you're in low points at different times.

[737] You know what I mean?

[738] And so it's really hard to win each of those battles because at one time when you might, I don't know, it's just, it seems like that'd be easier.

[739] but I think in some respects it is but it's man it does it's tough it is tough all the way around so when you're going through a three -day 238 mile run does it it it gets bad at certain times where you just feel like shit yeah and then if you keep going it gets better and then it gets bad again yeah and then it gets better oh yeah you're up and down up and down the whole time and but you to know that if you keep going, even when you feel like dog shit, you'll eventually break through and start feeling okay again.

[740] I don't know.

[741] There's no guarantee.

[742] There's no guarantee.

[743] No, there's no guarantee.

[744] You hope.

[745] Have you ever gone through a whole long race and felt like dog shit the entire time?

[746] Yeah.

[747] Which one of those?

[748] Well, like the 24 -hour run, you know, because that's usually like my first tough one of the years in June.

[749] So I haven't really prepared for it enough because I'm always after spring bear.

[750] and I haven't been training because I've been up in bear camp and doing whatever.

[751] So that's always one where I know I'm just pretty much going to be miserable the whole time.

[752] There's going to be no light at the end of the tunnel other than when the 24 hours is up.

[753] So that one I know I'm just going to have to grind it out.

[754] But that's where I'm like, this is one day out of my life.

[755] Just do it.

[756] I'm just going to be miserable.

[757] you know on moab that one started off and i felt terrible right out of the i mean i felt i was like we were god i don't want to think like 19 or maybe 15 miles in something like that at an aid station i'm going this is not good 15 miles in yes what's crazy is you were running a marathon a day yeah yeah so why was 15 miles so bad um i don't know there's sometimes when you do you ever go on a run and your legs just feel heavy yeah and you just don't feel good yeah so that's what it was i just i was like i wanted to be fresh and i wanted to feel light on my feet and i wanted to get out there and i was like it's not a good sign when i didn't because you know we just essentially started the race and it was hot and i had run out of water already one time and um my legs felt heavy and so it was uh looking good and then Courtney was way out ahead and you know they're saying I you know with I didn't really know who she was at that time so we were me and my brother Taylor we were thinking well 70 in the 70s would win the race so I thought well I want to go out and and aim for finishing in the 70s and when you say 70s what do you mean 70 hours yeah so I figured because what usually won big foot was high 60s and big Foot's 205.

[758] 205.

[759] And so this is, you know, close to 35 miles further.

[760] So we just figured, well, probably 70s is going to get it done.

[761] And so she went out and she had, there's another couple other guys with her, I think.

[762] And they went out pretty hard.

[763] And, you know, there's updates on where they were.

[764] And I didn't know.

[765] I didn't know at that time she was the American record holder for the 24 -hour run.

[766] She'd run 160 miles, I think, in 24 hours.

[767] Jesus Christ.

[768] And so I was like, oh, well, they just went too fast, you know, because I'd done that before and like a Bigfoot the year before.

[769] And I thought, well, they'll come back, you know, so meaning it'll balance out.

[770] We'd catch up or they'd come back.

[771] And I think the guys with her ended up dropping off a little bit.

[772] And then she never came back.

[773] She just.

[774] Well, one of them dropped out totally.

[775] He tried to keep up with her and he couldn't and wound up dropping out totally.

[776] she's a monster and she's eating nachos and candy that's what's crazy drinking beer well all these people are on like all these diets and watching their macro nutrients and no but i didn't want to say that is because i listened to you talked to her about that and excuse me i've seen a lot of comments about that but what you've got to keep in mind is her training yeah so you can't say well i run 15 miles a week and i'm going to eat nachos and beer right so she's running 120 20 miles a week probably you can eat pretty much whatever you want right so i get that but it's also like i was asking her about like the nutritional content of her food like are you really monitoring how much protein you get versus phytonutrients and minerals and but no no just gotten it out she probably just needs calories yeah you know she just it doesn't matter even matter what how she gets them just needs calories to sustain herself just think for just the the cells of your body you need more nutrients i mean who knows she's obviously a fucking savage yeah but who knows if she really monitored her diet and ate super healthy she might be better maybe which is just terrifying maybe yeah she's she's amazing um she's so normal too yeah you hang out with her like when she did the podcast she's just fun and laughing like you would never imagine that she's just like elite ultra marathon runner i would think you'd have to be like super stoic and intense and And when you see her, she's wearing, like, it looks like basketball shorts.

[777] Yeah.

[778] Like, yeah, exactly.

[779] It's not like, you know, you see some of these track athletes and they got the tight little shorts on and the singlet.

[780] And they're like, you know, she's just like, with kind of a baggy shirt and baggy shorts and then just crushing people.

[781] Crazy.

[782] Yeah, she's.

[783] I love that, though.

[784] I love outliers.

[785] I love people that come along that don't make any sense.

[786] I'm like, what the fuck?

[787] Like, that she's so much better than everybody else.

[788] She won that 238 -mile race by 22 miles?

[789] Something like that, yeah.

[790] 22 miles ahead of the second -place winner.

[791] Yeah, and the guy who got second is a stud.

[792] Fucking animal.

[793] The guy's an animal.

[794] And she was 22 miles ahead of him.

[795] Imagine getting whooped, not just whooped, but whooped 22 miles ahead by someone who's eating nachos and drinking beer and eating candy.

[796] I just love that.

[797] I love someone who doesn't make any sense who's just so much better and it's just like, wow, we've got to fucking throw a monkey wrench to this whole idea.

[798] The only thing I got on anybody is can they pack out an elk?

[799] No, you got that on them.

[800] Yeah, if that was the race, you'd fuck them all up.

[801] But what I'd like about her also is I flew home the other day.

[802] I can't remember where it was from, but I flew over, like there's some, in the cascades of Oregon, And there's a middle sister, North sister, South sister, and then bachelors, where everybody goes and skis.

[803] And then broken tops right there.

[804] So I filmed it.

[805] And I'm like, I tagged my brother, Taylor, and I'm like, hey, can we knock off all five of these peaks in 24 hours?

[806] And it would be, I mean, it would be a test, you know.

[807] And she commented and said, she wants to, she'd join us.

[808] Wow.

[809] She wants to come do it.

[810] So, I mean, I just love that.

[811] I don't even, she's amazing.

[812] but that type of I mean I guess that kind of goes hand in hand with the eating whatever you want is also doing whatever you want you know like a lot of these elite athletes they would be like have a schedule of races and my training and this and that and I you know whatever I like that she would just say yeah I'll do that it's not a race it's just we're just having fun or just a test it's an unofficial test and for her to want to join in And that's probably what I love the most about her.

[813] And are there established trails that you guys could run over all those peaks?

[814] We did the South Sister and the Middle Sister last year.

[815] And now it's getting off the South Sister towards the Middle Sister is sketchy.

[816] There's no trails, no. Oh, so you just running through the woods?

[817] It's on the side, there's no trees.

[818] It's on the side of the mountain.

[819] So it's like shale.

[820] Oh, even more sketchy.

[821] Yeah.

[822] I'd rather run over trees.

[823] Yeah.

[824] Sort of.

[825] No, you would because, you know, if there's trees there, there's solid ground there.

[826] Right.

[827] You know, so with the rocks up there, you don't know what's going to happen.

[828] But you got to be stepping over shit if there's trees there.

[829] You might run into a bunch of places where all the trees have fallen down.

[830] Generally, yeah, I mean, there can be windfall in there, but generally you can get on an animal trail and find your way through, you know.

[831] But when it's just rocks, that's probably the most sketchy.

[832] Because just because there's a, you know, I don't know, a thousand pound rock sitting there, it could just be balanced perfectly.

[833] You might step on it.

[834] That could be, there's no guarantee that those rocks are staying there.

[835] You know, falls all the time.

[836] So that's with rocks in that type of country, super steep.

[837] It's part of it.

[838] It's fascinating to me that that is the appeal of sheep hunting to a lot of people is that it's so incredibly dangerous, that being up in those high peaks and stepping.

[839] on shale and like on these these crazy peaks where to the left is just a steep drop off to the right is a steep drop off you have a very narrow place to navigate yeah it's uh you know sheep hunting they say it's it's not the it's not the animal that's the most wary it's just the country that makes it so i mean they're expensive the hunts but it's just where they it's just where they live is the draw You know, I think with the bow, definitely a tough animal with a rifle, mostly it's just kind of getting in, if you can get your body within a range, you know, you can usually get one done, but it's just where they live.

[840] Yeah, when Ben O 'Brien and Green Tree were hunting tar, it was a similar thing, New Zealand, they're in these crazy peaks and super dangerous, sketchy territory.

[841] people it's fascinating to me how people get addicted to incredibly difficult things they do it they say fuck i'm never doing this again god this is terrible and then they get back and a couple weeks later they're like shit i want to go back yeah it's uh god i don't know what i don't know what type of analogy to make but um you know if you when you've done say maybe ultras or marathons it's really hard to get excited for a 5k know what i mean when you do your key hammering 5k how boring to me this more about the people then right yeah it's not for me I'm not you know that stupid race is the reason why I got started running I couldn't believe how hard it was to do with zero running folks zero I ran zero and then I ran a 5k yeah and at the end of that I was like okay I got to start running shit yeah and it feels great now right does it does there's nothing nothing that feels better to me than being all to run I mean you know what's crazy is my endurance for kickboxing is way better yeah i mean way better way better like i could do a hard three minute round no problem yeah and it's just from running these fucking hills i think it changes your lung capacity yeah your lungs just expand and yeah and contract and you just used to getting more oxygen in there i guess yeah well it's those trail you've seen those trails that i'm running on to it's so steep it's so much of it is just pushing pushing pushing it's like you're sprinting up these hills yeah and your your body's just used to those bursts, you know?

[842] And so now when I go crazy on the heavy bag, I like, bam, ba -b -b -b -b -b -boom, and then the bell will go off.

[843] And I'm like, oh, go good.

[844] It's crazy.

[845] It's like, it's amazing.

[846] It's, and it does so much for your legs, too.

[847] Oh, yeah.

[848] You know, people always ask, you know, what I do for legs, and it's like, I just run mountains.

[849] I mean, and it's, you know.

[850] Yeah, there was a famous kickboxer from Montreal.

[851] His name was Jean -Eve Terrio.

[852] He was, like, the most scary kickboxer.

[853] the world in the PKA karate days and all he did was he would run stairs like that was the big workout that he ran he wrote a book on training and uh you know what it takes to to be a world champion and one of the things that he's saying is you got to run stairs he's like running stairs is like been the best thing for his kicking power for his endurance for yeah i remember thinking that and he was talking about how it just put inches on his thighs and it's just it radically increased his lung capacity and kicking power Speaking of endurance, I don't know if we were, but I will, but Francis Ingano, he got gassed out.

[854] He did.

[855] Well, he tried to take Steepay out in the first round.

[856] That was his thought was that Steepa's not going to be able to survive.

[857] And it didn't happen.

[858] It's not good.

[859] He's fucked.

[860] Yeah, and he doesn't know how to wrestle that well.

[861] He doesn't have a long background in martial arts at all.

[862] And Steepay was a very good college wrestler and obviously a bad motherfucker.

[863] You know, God.

[864] He took some hard shots, too.

[865] He did.

[866] You know, that's the thing about Stepe.

[867] It's not just that he knows how to fight.

[868] It's, he's just fucking tough.

[869] It's just, there's a bunch of shit going on there.

[870] It's experience.

[871] It's just sheer toughness and grit and determination.

[872] And he also, he knows how to ride out bad moments.

[873] Like, Francis had never had a bad moment.

[874] Right.

[875] He didn't know what the fuck to do.

[876] I think most people, I know you, you didn't, but I think most people had kind of assumed, oh, Francis is going to win this fight.

[877] I thought it's very possible if Francis could win the fight.

[878] I thought it was very possible that Francis could just nuke him in the first round.

[879] He's just so scary.

[880] Yeah.

[881] Yeah, it just takes one.

[882] No, I've never seen anyone in all of my history of watching MMA that's so terrifying with one punch.

[883] Yeah, yeah.

[884] And he's just punching, too.

[885] His kicks are, you know, they're okay.

[886] Yeah.

[887] But he's not like, you know, he's not Edson Barbosa or someone who could put you to sleep with one kick.

[888] he's not kicking people he's just moving towards you throwing a few kicks maybe but what he's trying to do is hit you with those giant fucking canned hams that he calls fists and even when he was so gassed he could barely do anything i was thinking up just take still still one big tired heavy arm could do it oh yeah 100 % that guy still has unbelievable potential if he could get it together, but what he needs to do, and this is critical, he needs to work on his ground game, needs to work on his wrestling, and he needs to be with a real top -flight MMA camp.

[889] Yeah, who trains him now?

[890] He trains with the guy who found him.

[891] I forget the gentleman's name, but the guy's done an amazing job of building his skills up in five years.

[892] And the thing is, Francis is so goddamn good that most people he spars with, most people, people he fights with are fucked.

[893] But when, but he runs into the top of the food chain, a guy like Steepay, stepey can avoid all the dangerous stuff, drag him into deep water, get him diminished, diminish his endurance and his ability, and then overwhelm him, which is what Steepay did.

[894] But Francis can learn from that.

[895] He can learn from that.

[896] He can learn from that, and he can get better at all those areas that he had problems with.

[897] So tired.

[898] Yeah.

[899] But he can get, the endurance is something you can work on.

[900] You can work on all those things.

[901] things.

[902] I just don't know how I'm sure he worked hard.

[903] I'm absolutely sure but I don't know how hard he was pushed right.

[904] So there's a difference between working hard and being pushed.

[905] Right.

[906] Like if he's training with a guy like Kane Velazquez for instance, prime time Kane Velasquez.

[907] If Kane's in his prime, Kane's taking him down, left and right, he's going to try to have to get up all the time.

[908] He's doing rounds with Kane.

[909] You're going through hell.

[910] You're going through five minutes of hell and when that bell goes off to end the five minutes of hell, you're just like, holy shit.

[911] Yeah.

[912] You know, you watch the The training camps with Daniel Cormier and Luke Rockhold and Kane Velasquez, some of the footage, there's a reason why those guys are so goddamn good because iron sharpens iron.

[913] That's right.

[914] Those guys are in their world champions going at it with each other on a daily basis.

[915] And because of that, that's what turned them into those fucking monsters that they are today.

[916] Francis is just a physical freak.

[917] But if he was in that camp, holy shit.

[918] Yeah, that'd be amazing.

[919] It'd be amazing to see what he could do.

[920] Yeah.

[921] I don't know.

[922] The problem is sparring with that guy.

[923] Yeah.

[924] Like if Francis spars the way they spar, because D .C. Because they go hard, don't they?

[925] They go a little hard.

[926] Isn't that kind of maybe too hard?

[927] That's the argument.

[928] Yeah.

[929] There's two arguments.

[930] There's one argument is that that going through that is why they're so successful in world championship fights, that they know what the fire feels like.

[931] Yeah.

[932] The other thing is that they're also incredible.

[933] They get injured a lot.

[934] That camp gets injured a lot.

[935] But it's also, they're so fucking good.

[936] Look who they got.

[937] Habib Nuremberg -Metoff, Luke Rockhold, Daniel Cormier, Kane, motherfucking Velasquez.

[938] You can't argue with that.

[939] One camp in San Jose has some of the best fighters that have ever done the sport.

[940] Then on top of that, Josh Thompson.

[941] They had Josh Koshchek for a while, and he was at the top of his game.

[942] Some fucking killers have come from AKA.

[943] So you could look at it two ways You could say One, they're beating each other up too much Or two, that's what you got to do Yeah It's what you got to do to be a world champion Yeah, it's hard to say I mean I was still to this day When Kane was in his prime I never saw a heavy weight like that before Ever the fucking endurance that guy had Was off the charts It's not like nothing You would see guys just be overwhelmed They couldn't imagine how the fuck he could do this Like where's he getting And the second round would come around They'd have this look in their face and Cain would just be like he just woke up.

[944] Like, he's not even, he's not even started to really sweat yet.

[945] And he beat the shit out of him for the second round, beat the shit out of him for the third.

[946] They would just wilt under the pressure.

[947] Yeah, you see those fights were, I mean, not him, but I mean, even now, or it's just an onslaught.

[948] And you're just like, man, you feel bad for, well, that, that, who was that the other night?

[949] Shevchenko, did you see that fight?

[950] Jesus Christ.

[951] I was like, can this fight get over?

[952] because they should have stopped that fight a long time ago that fight should have been stopped 15 or 20 times oh my god it is brutal yeah mario yamasaki said he gave her the opportunity to be a warrior that's what he said that was his his take on it oh man i mean she was getting beat up not just beat up the did you see the stats the actual physical striking stats the significant strikes did she land any one okay and valentine she landed one Like, I think it was some unbelievably overwhelming number, like one versus several hundred in the significant strike department.

[953] Like, literally, she might landed one pretty decent punch.

[954] Shevchenko's, she looked like a guy up there with the big hard elbows, you know, coming, I mean, just like, just power.

[955] Like a guy, sexist much?

[956] No, someone's a fucking sexist.

[957] Did you notice that, Jamie?

[958] Jesus.

[959] She's world champion Muay Thai kickboxer.

[960] She looks like a world champion woman, you son of a bitch.

[961] Jeez.

[962] I'm getting read the riot act over here.

[963] You've got to be careful these days.

[964] People turn on you.

[965] I hate that.

[966] You know, I hate that.

[967] That really irritates me. I think I'm going to...

[968] Yeah, why is it wrong to say she looks like a guy?

[969] I don't know.

[970] She's a woman, son of a bitch.

[971] That's why.

[972] You don't even get it.

[973] I was just talking more about the power.

[974] You know, you just don't see women, you know, coming, look at the strikes, 95 to 2.

[975] Oh.

[976] But you just don't see women like coming down hard like that, have you before?

[977] Yeah, Kat Zengano.

[978] Katzengano can do that.

[979] It's just rare.

[980] Yeah, it's rare.

[981] When they're on that, that top position and just raining part, it's just like, I just haven't seen it that often.

[982] No, there's not a lot of women that can throw down like that.

[983] And Valentina is one of the most well -rounded women in the sport.

[984] She sub -Juliana Pena off her back.

[985] She, you know, she stands up and outstrikes Holly Holme.

[986] She went toe -to -to -to -with Amanda Nunes.

[987] She went toe -to -to -to with some of the best kickboxers in the world.

[988] She's a world champion Muay fighter.

[989] I mean, she's just a fucking beast, man. She's an all -around just bad, badass fighter.

[990] There was an argument that she won that for the championship.

[991] shit.

[992] Against Nunez?

[993] Yeah.

[994] Super close fight.

[995] I didn't think it was a bad decision, but I thought it was a very close fight.

[996] Yeah.

[997] It's hard, you know, and it's hard for me calling fights because when I'm calling them, I'm just looking at what's happening, I'm trying to talk, but I'm not scoring it.

[998] Right.

[999] You know, I don't score it.

[1000] If you score it, you got to keep your mouth shut.

[1001] You should have a piece of paper in front of you, and, you know, Eddie Bravo used to do it for the UFC.

[1002] He used to score in between rounds, and he had a great system where he would put a line down the center of a paper and it would be like one opponent on the left side and the other one on the right side and then he would write down like kicks take down submission attempts and all that stuff and then defense those are little categories and they would put check marks next to one and then he would go over why he thought someone won and what kind of score he got he had a very good system yeah and i think that's the only way to fairly judge a fight right when you're calling it it's like Valentin Shevchenko's fight Where you just go like, what the fuck I gave her like 10 to 2 I mean it was so overwhelming I mean a 108 round is a disgrace It's like a 106 Or if you gave her just a 108 You'd be like who the fuck are you Yeah Oh my God that was crazy Yeah Yeah Yeah it was a bad matchup Because that girl was her I believe that was her UFC debut So to have a UFC debut Against a woman who's fought for the title against a world -class striker.

[1003] I mean, literally one of the very best strikers on the planet Earth, male or female.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] And just, it's not fair, you know?

[1006] That was her first fight at 125, wasn't it?

[1007] Valentina's, yes.

[1008] Yeah, yeah.

[1009] Well, Valentina fought Yuanio and J -check in Muay Thai.

[1010] Oh, that she did.

[1011] She beat her.

[1012] I think they fought more than once.

[1013] But I believe Valentina beat.

[1014] Peter.

[1015] I hope I'm not wrong.

[1016] Because I'm wrong a lot.

[1017] I'm excited for that Rose.

[1018] Nomina's and you want to you and Jacek rematch?

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Well, you know, Rose trains with Valentina.

[1021] Oh, okay.

[1022] That's her main sparring part.

[1023] Oh, really?

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] Oh.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] And that's a good camp then.

[1028] Just those have those two there to work off each other.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] It's phenomenal for Rose and for Valentina.

[1031] Well, it's going to be tough for Rose to come now as a champion.

[1032] I don't know.

[1033] It'll be interesting to see how if it changes at all yeah it will definitely be interesting and uh coming into this fight was fascinating to me even though rose won by first round knockout she's the the underdog yeah well it's i put up that clip of uh when she was like saying the lord's prayer there when you're up there and you were talking about how it was terrifying or something like that i put up that little clip it was that was crazy oh yeah no it's from you guys yeah before On fight night, before the fight, you guys were standing there.

[1034] And they were showing that from the way in.

[1035] And, oh, my God, that was classic.

[1036] Yeah, she was so in the zone that Yawanna was talking shit to her.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] I'm going to fuck you up.

[1039] I'm going to fuck up your pretty face.

[1040] I'm the boogie woman.

[1041] She's talking all this crazy shit to her.

[1042] And Rose is just going, our father, who aren't heaven.

[1043] I know.

[1044] The kingdom come.

[1045] That will be done.

[1046] And she was like in this zone where Yonanah put her fist on her nose.

[1047] And she didn't flinch.

[1048] That was the only one that I said, because they had.

[1049] had something out about fighter of the year, I think, but that was I get fired up for all the fights, but that was the only fight that I was standing up, like I was, because I was watching it at home, and I'm just like, oh my God, you know, and because she was landing those, that hard punches and it was, I don't know, it's amazing.

[1050] Yeah, it was amazing.

[1051] Amazing.

[1052] A lot of people thought she had a chance by submission, because I mean, Eunice is a really good submission artist, and she's really fast.

[1053] like she'll throw up flying arm bars and shit she's wild she takes crazy chances yeah but for her to win by chaos like that it was like holy shit i know it i know it i was so pumped when daniel cormier just starts yelling out thug rose yeah oh my god that was amazing it's amazing that was one of my favorite moments of doing commentary of just being next to him while he was just yelling that out because it was just pure excitement and appreciation and joy you know he just have enough good time Does he know her then, too?

[1054] I mean, they all know each other.

[1055] Oh, I mean, I don't know how well he knows her.

[1056] Not training together.

[1057] No, I don't believe so.

[1058] Yeah, they're not the same camp.

[1059] I mean, maybe she's done some training at A .K .A. I'm not aware.

[1060] But she's in Colorado.

[1061] She's his Trevor Whitman.

[1062] And her boyfriend, Pat Barry, who's a world -class kickboxer.

[1063] He's a really good MMA fighter as well.

[1064] I remember him.

[1065] Fighting in the UFC, he had some wild -ass fights.

[1066] He's a serious striker.

[1067] Pat Barry can fucking crack.

[1068] I remember it.

[1069] I mean, I thought he was.

[1070] fighting let's see who was that and it's like i thought he was knocked out basically and then landed one big one or maybe it's the other way around yeah he was fighting check congo yes and he had check congo completely out of it yes and he just went in for broke and check congo caught him with a crazy punch and caoed him yeah that was it i remember that fight that was nuts that was nuts but that's just how pat fights he's a wild man yeah he just fights wild yeah he's he was i remember he was like thick and good punch.

[1071] Yeah, he's a tank.

[1072] Ruthless, ruthless leg kicks.

[1073] He's got some of the best leg kicks I've ever seen in the heavyweight division.

[1074] Those are, those leg kicks, you know, I just heard you talk about it the other day, but those low leg kicks are a new thing nowadays.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] Well, Benson Henderson started doing that a long time ago.

[1077] He was one of the first guys that introduced it to MMA.

[1078] But he had some success with it, but not like you're seeing today.

[1079] Like, you're seeing guys getting debilitated, like, really quickly.

[1080] It must be a new, so it's a weak spot on humans, I guess.

[1081] Well, a hard down there low.

[1082] There's a lot of things that Muay fighters are known about forever that MMA fighters are just starting to figure out.

[1083] The same as with kickboxing and karate.

[1084] There's a lot of karate moves that MMA fighters are not good at, but karate guys are.

[1085] And karate guys come into MMA like Stephen Tompkins.

[1086] Thompson.

[1087] Tompkins.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Wonderboy Tompkins.

[1090] Tompkins.

[1091] She keeps saying Tompkins because of Sean Tompkins.

[1092] But Wonderboy is doing things from a sideways karate stance that a lot of people aren't just don't know how to handle.

[1093] Like Wonderboy has these crazy front leg sidekicks and front leg roundhouse kicks.

[1094] Like if you ever watch his fight with Johnny Hendrix, it's one of the best examples.

[1095] He hits Johnny Hendricks in the gut with a sidekick and then Johnny Hendricks is still there.

[1096] So he roundhouse kicks him in the face with the same leg.

[1097] And you see, Johnny's like, what in the fuck?

[1098] Because it's just something like, he didn't see that in training.

[1099] You can't simulate that.

[1100] You have to get a really good karate guy.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] And most really good karate guys, he's just going to be able to take him down.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] But, you know, Wonderboys just got that style just dialed in and nailed.

[1105] And he moves like a snake from the waist.

[1106] Like he moves backwards from the way.

[1107] Like, he gets away from shit and then fires back at you.

[1108] He looked good in that last fight.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] Against Jorge Monsvidal?

[1111] Yeah, yeah.

[1112] Yeah, so that's a different style.

[1113] And so these techniques, like he's exceptionally good at those karate techniques, and a lot of people aren't.

[1114] And so with Muay, most of the time when guys were learning Muay and bringing it into MMA, they were doing a few things.

[1115] They were throwing the leg kicks.

[1116] They were throwing the knees to the body, the elbows, normal, normal Muay techniques.

[1117] But they were missing some of the subtleties.

[1118] So some of the better Muay fighters started training.

[1119] with some of the better MMA fighters and then slowly but surely those techniques started leaking in I see and then the big one now is that low leg kick yeah that low leg kick is a motherfucker man it just takes out you can't condition your lower leg that's what I'm saying it feels like it's a week I mean because I know Michael Chandler he got caught with that and that's how we lost the belt yeah killed the nerves in his leg and it's like it looked like his leg was broke yeah I mean his ankle is flopping all around you could you'd swear that that leg was broke and it must have just been those low leg kicks down there and just dead on nerve.

[1120] Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

[1121] It's amazing how many, how many fighters, like Gilbert Melendez, when he fought Jeremy Stevens, Jeremy Stevens cracked him real early in the first round with that low leg kick and you see it immediately swelling up and then Gilbert's just falling down on it.

[1122] He just can't stand up on it.

[1123] It's crazy.

[1124] Douglas Lima and Rory McDonald's Roy McDonald did in Bellator right into the same thing right into the lower leg it's he had a giant hematoma it was fucking huge and scrolling yeah yeah it's a devastating technique yeah well it's interesting it's I just love that I love when new elements get brought into this very complex sport yeah I mean and that's like yeah that that's just been a new one for sure um but this Saturday are you going to be at the keep hammering run Saturday is a keep hammering run yeah where salt lake i didn't know there was one no no i'm gonna be here now remember that uh you went to that show yeah i did go to that show i went to that show by accident the western honey yeah i was in town skiing which i fucking hate yeah i don't hate skiing but i'm not a fan it's just boring you just dislike it a lot i just don't get it every time i do it i'm like maybe this time i'm gonna get it this is going to be the day where i'm gonna be in bliss I'm going to slide down that mountain.

[1125] People are like, oh, it's because you're not good at it.

[1126] I did it for five years.

[1127] I got pretty good at it.

[1128] I didn't get good at it.

[1129] Like, I couldn't enter a skiing competition, but I don't fall down anymore.

[1130] I know how to stop.

[1131] I know how to ski.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] I just don't get it.

[1134] So I was there, and then I was like, what?

[1135] There's a hunting expo.

[1136] And I fucking snuck away for a day.

[1137] I had a great time with you.

[1138] I was like, this is so much better.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] So that's this weekend, that show.

[1141] Ah, and you have a keep hammering run in Utah?

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] Where's it at?

[1144] It's, if it's the same place as last year, it's just right, I mean, start at the capital there in Salt Lake, Capitol building, and then you run a 5K from there.

[1145] Oh, okay.

[1146] Yeah, so it's Saturday morning.

[1147] I'm a big fan of Salt Lake.

[1148] I love that town.

[1149] Me too.

[1150] It's fucking great.

[1151] Yeah, me too.

[1152] Nice people, man. Oh, I know.

[1153] They're so nice.

[1154] The best.

[1155] I mean, I know it's weird.

[1156] There's a lot of Mormons there.

[1157] I know people get weirded out by Mormons.

[1158] They're the nicest people.

[1159] They're so nice.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Like, I don't care what.

[1162] wacky shit you believe as long as you're nice that's it that's yeah just be nice that's it yeah so that's uh i'm excited it's gonna be uh i think we we're hoping to have god i want to think we had a few hundred last year so yeah nice this can be and then uh we'll do that saturday and then we'll be back in september elk hunting do you remember that remember el cunning in utah i do we only got to 470 ,000 views.

[1163] We're going to do a podcast when we get to 500 ,000.

[1164] What's it out right now, Jamie?

[1165] Go to the UA Hunt YouTube page.

[1166] We might have to cancel this.

[1167] Son of a bitch.

[1168] Yeah, we were hoping to do a podcast when it hit 500 ,000, but it petered out.

[1169] It did.

[1170] Petered out at about 471, 270.

[1171] Ooh, so we got a thousand today.

[1172] So we just need a few more days.

[1173] We're good.

[1174] By the end of the month.

[1175] Yeah, close enough.

[1176] Yeah, we'll hit it by the end.

[1177] of the month.

[1178] Hey, and then also this weekend, the Secretary of the Interior, Zinky on Friday is going to announce a big, I think it's a big win for conservationists, and we're going to protect the winter migration routes for deer and elk from development.

[1179] So that's been a big thing that, you know, like, I told them when I met with them back.

[1180] in Vegas, I don't know when it was, a couple weeks ago, that it feels like we've taken some hits as sportsmen as far as the national monuments being shrunk, you know, and you can argue that both ways.

[1181] Drilling on the coast, you know, a lot of people don't like the prospects of that.

[1182] So I'm like, man, we could use a wind and brought up the winter migration routes and protecting those from any development just so those animals can get down and get to the winter range when food's hard to come by and so that's that's going to be announced on Friday that he's going to make that happen that's awesome and now you have a position there as well like what is your official position that's it I'm on the international wildlife conservation council which has it's not does have anything to do with North America but I'm just kind of using that as an excuse to talk about North America it doesn't have anything to do with North America No. What does it have to do with?

[1183] Well, that's about like the trophy export ban from Africa.

[1184] So international hunting, basically.

[1185] And so it's weighing in on that because.

[1186] So like if you go to Australia and you shoot some animals, you can't bring the meat back.

[1187] Well, yeah.

[1188] Is that different?

[1189] Yeah, it's different.

[1190] Well, that doesn't have anything to do with what's going on right now.

[1191] It's Africa and like with elephants.

[1192] coming back.

[1193] So when you can't bring your trophy back, who's going to want to go shoot, not just elephants, because elephants are a whole different category, but who's going to go want to shoot?

[1194] A gazelle.

[1195] Well, if you can't bring it back.

[1196] An island.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] I don't know if those are regulated, but it's mostly elephants and, you know.

[1200] In lions.

[1201] In lions.

[1202] Didn't they, they reversed it and then Trump said, fuck that.

[1203] Trump doesn't like it, which is fascinating because Because his sons are big hunters.

[1204] Right, right.

[1205] He called it a horror show.

[1206] He did.

[1207] And that's what got my attention is because he said that he doesn't see how conservation helps elephants, which, okay, that's one thing.

[1208] But then he said, or any other animals.

[1209] And I'm like, wait a second.

[1210] Okay, you can't, we can't say conservation, hunting as a conservation tool doesn't help any other animals because we've proven here in North America.

[1211] It's the model that works.

[1212] So I didn't like how he worded that and lump that on together.

[1213] and I'm like, was that I was, was that just a poorly worded tweet?

[1214] What's going on here?

[1215] So then he said he was going to look at that ban regarding elephants because, you know, if there's no value on the animals, we know what, we know what happens.

[1216] And if there is no hunting, it's pretty much the death sentence of the animal.

[1217] Well, we'd probably have to explain that to a lot of people that don't know what we're talking about.

[1218] But Africa, there's a lot of animals in Africa that were on the verge of extinction just a few decades ago.

[1219] And what they did was, it's a very controversial thing, especially to people that don't hunt.

[1220] But what they did was they created a lot of these game preserves where they had these animals and they had a financial interest in keeping these animals alive because people paid a lot of money to come over there and hunt them.

[1221] So now these animals that were on the verge of extinction just a couple of decades ago are thriving in record numbers.

[1222] But they get hunted.

[1223] Yeah.

[1224] So for people that are concerned about the welfare of these animals and their wildlife lovers, they're in a weird predicament because it's hunting that's keeping these animals alive.

[1225] And it seems like a contradiction, like how could hunting be conservation?

[1226] Right.

[1227] But even in this country, 11 % taxes on bullets, on hunting equipment, on all the different things that people buy.

[1228] And this was a self -imposed tax that sportsmen put on the purchase of these goods.

[1229] so that it would go towards wildlife.

[1230] And billions of dollars, billions of dollars have gone to preserving wetlands, preserving wildlife habitat, reestablishing populations of animals and all these different areas where they're diminished.

[1231] It's like the amount of money that has gone towards conservation from hunters versus from PETA or the Humane Society or any other welfare group, it's not even remotely comparable.

[1232] hunters are making the difference and we put our money where our mouth is you know we say we care about it we we pay for it we we put money there to help conservation and pay for the biologists and pay for the studies and pay for habitat enhancement and so that's that essentially is the same thing that needs to happen in africa but it's it's weird to say well how can the united states regulate what happens in africa because we can't really right but we can say we're not going to allow the trophies to come home so that pretty much stops the hunting in Africa.

[1233] So yeah, we're not saying you can't or can't hunt.

[1234] You can still go do it.

[1235] You just can't bring them home, which essentially stops hunting.

[1236] Without hunting, those animals don't have value.

[1237] And no matter how you want to slice it or phrase it or whatever you want, if they don't have value, they're not going to, it's going to be the detriment of the animal of the species.

[1238] You know, Kenya, they stopped hunting in 1973 and 70 % of the animals are gone with no hunting yeah it's very confusing it's it seems contradictory it does and it's like uh you know I talked to with um you know Zinky about this also and so that's what this this council is about to try to make a good decision on how best to regulate the trophies coming home and maybe we can help promote hunting and how to do it right and what it means um as a council so that's I'm involved in that um I used that opportunity to talk to him about other things, too.

[1239] But so I don't know.

[1240] I don't know where it's all going to lead.

[1241] It's a fascinating subject because elephants are endangered in some parts of Africa.

[1242] But Africa is an enormous place.

[1243] And in other parts of Africa, they have a problem with elephants.

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] So going to those places and shooting elephants to most people is a horrific offense.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] So, but the problem is I don't see the amount of money.

[1248] that someone has to pay to go and shoot an elephant.

[1249] It's a crazy amount of money.

[1250] 75 ,000.

[1251] That's a lot of fucking money.

[1252] How many people are spending $75 ,000 to go look at them or help them?

[1253] They're not going to.

[1254] They're not going to.

[1255] No. And when you say, well, that money could come from photo safaris.

[1256] And also with the photos.

[1257] No one's going to pay $75 grand to take a picture.

[1258] And for a photo safari, where they have them set up is that they go on pretty much the same route.

[1259] So the habitat just gets hammered.

[1260] I mean, you know what a national monument or a national park here.

[1261] the most popular places you know what those look like it's a freaking dump so when you have those photos far as they go on the same track basically you're hammering the habitat you're not getting back to the back reaches where the poachers are killing the animals you know that's still happening back there and then to get a pride of lion in to where you can take pictures of it they're still going out and shooting zebras and and and paula and different things buffalo throwing them out there so the so the lions are there eating so there's still animals dying but there's just the animals aren't benefiting from it so when you think of like in the bush of africa if a farmer there has a crop and there's elephants getting in there thrashing his crop the elephant has no value to him what has value is a crop and if the animal if the elephant's in there trampling it he just wants an elephant dead wants it gone so he's going to shoot it's going to lay there it's not going to benefit anybody but his crop grows and that's what happens it's just very hard for people to look at it way because they look at it like no I don't want an elephant to die and no I don't want a lion to die no I don't want a zebra to die and no I don't want a giraffe to die and what they do shoot that other thing that wardhog that ugly thing yeah nobody gives a fuck about wardhogs now you can shoot warhogs and smile and take a picture and people are racist they're a racist against certain animals yeah that's a fact oh for sure for sure that's a fact is a racism racism okay race of speciesism are you a specious I am I sent you a video you about that speciesist that's a fact but i like people way more than i like goldfish and and with regard to lions you know so if lions are coming in and killing the goats or whatever that the say in tanzania that they're raising they're just going to put they'll be a dead goat they'll put poison in it the pride will come in eat it they'll go die then no more goats are getting killed yeah all those lions are dead well that was one of the things about zimbabwe right um was it zimbabwe where that guy killed that lion, the Cecil?

[1262] Oh, I think so, yeah.

[1263] That place, they had to kill a bunch of lions because people stopped lion hunting there.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] And so because they stopped lion hunting there, they had this excess of lions, and they were destroying the undulate population, so they had to go in and then just slaughter these lions.

[1266] Yeah.

[1267] So the $50 ,000 per lion that they would have made that would have gone towards all sorts of different things, protection of the habitat, the the different conservation officers that work in that area.

[1268] Instead, there's no money, and then they actually have to hire someone to go and do that job.

[1269] Right.

[1270] And this is the argument about British Columbia as well, that this is exactly what's going to happen up there.

[1271] That the argument that you're getting from the people that are in the field that are out there every day is that what's going to have to happen is you're going to have a bunch of problem bears, they're going to have to hire people to go out to these problem bears, and it's incredibly expensive and very, very dangerous.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] And the bears are still going to die.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] So that's still going to happen.

[1276] Some of them.

[1277] Some of them are still going to die.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] But animals are going to die.

[1280] You know, I mean, do you get mad when a bear kills an antelope or when a bear kills a giraffe?

[1281] Right.

[1282] Well, they don't really.

[1283] They're not over there.

[1284] But if they were over here, you know, if a bear kills a moose, are you upset?

[1285] Are you only upset when a person kills a moose?

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] Right.

[1288] And, you know, in Africa, too, so those animals are dying.

[1289] And when it's hunters that are doing it, the numbers are very controlled.

[1290] The harvest is very controlled.

[1291] You can take X amount of animals out, and this money will go towards, you know, this enhancement of a waterhole, this pain for the anti -poaching unit, which when I was over there was $1 ,000 a day to pay for guys to come in to control, keep the poachers out of there.

[1292] Without that money, none of that's happening.

[1293] So instead of having a very regulated harvest number, the poachers will kill however many.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] And let's be honest about it.

[1296] The vast majority of the money is going towards whatever lodge or the owners of that area.

[1297] But they're also hiring people.

[1298] They are hiring people, but they have a financial incentive to keep these animals a lot.

[1299] It's very problematic for a lot of people.

[1300] They don't like to hear it.

[1301] And I've read this article, this ridiculous article that said that that's not true.

[1302] The trophy hunting is not what sustains these animals.

[1303] And, you know, you can get just as much from a safari.

[1304] Like, that's not true.

[1305] What you're saying is not true.

[1306] that CNN thing handled it pretty well.

[1307] Did you watch that trophy?

[1308] What did you think about that?

[1309] No, I...

[1310] A lot of hunter said some stupid shit.

[1311] Yeah, I didn't...

[1312] God, you know, I mean, we talked about this early in the podcast, you know, when people say, oh, you just want to go kill stuff and this and that.

[1313] I didn't really like when...

[1314] Whoever the hunter was, I don't know.

[1315] It's probably a nice guy.

[1316] But he shot a crocodile and he says, yeah, mother effer.

[1317] I'm like, what is going on there?

[1318] I have never done anything like that And that seemed That isn't like the honorable hunter that I know You know, so that seemed a little weird I don't like crocodiles I might say yeah motherfucker if I shot a crocodile Crocodile scare the shit out of me Yeah they are the one thing that scares me More than any pretty much any animal on the planet Yeah, I know I just I still feel a lot of respect for the animal I'm joking around mostly No I know mostly I know but I did seem like a weird reaction to me Well especially knowing that the world's going to see that reaction I mean, if he was just by himself and he said that, and that was an honest reaction, and he still had respect for the animal, and it was just the fact that he pulled it off.

[1319] Yeah.

[1320] It's unfortunate.

[1321] It's unfortunate as a, it's unfortunate to broadcast that for the world to see.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] I thought, I thought it could have been a lot worse with regard to how hunters were portrayed.

[1324] You know, I mean, even the guy who killed the lion, he did get emotional.

[1325] He showed some reverence there, which I liked.

[1326] It could have been worse.

[1327] They talked about how its animals are, I guess, a commodity in some respects with the rhinos.

[1328] You know, I think that guy had 1 ,500 rhinos, didn't he, on his property?

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] And, you know, so what's better, 1 ,500 rhinos for him to have and raise and cut off the horns or zero?

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] You know, it's better to have 1 ,500, right?

[1333] Yeah, well, it's definitely better for the population of rhinos as a whole.

[1334] whole is people don't like the idea of raising something as a commodity raising wildlife as a commodity yeah i understand that did you ever see the louis through documentary the about wildlife in africa about those i forget what it was called but you can watch it on youtube that to me was a better piece and one of the most interesting things because louis is uh he's a very smart guy but he's also a very nice guy yeah he just kept asking questions and pestering people and getting to the heart of it but he also showed like these fenced -in lions and they're throwing a dead cow over the top of the fence and the lions are tearing it apart it's fucking crazy i didn't see it but it's it's weird because these lions they're never wild like they're feeding them and then people go over there and hunt them as if it's like a wild lion yeah it's it's super weird i couldn't hunt in a fence um i couldn't hunt a lion in a fence um so i don't know yeah it it's it's It's not what we call over here in America fair chase.

[1335] Right.

[1336] There's a term, that term fair chase is synonymous with ethical hunters in America.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] And this is something that most people aren't aware of, that there's a code.

[1339] And the code varies slightly.

[1340] Like in some places you can use electronic communication, meaning you can use walkie -talkies to locate an animal.

[1341] Like, I believe you can do that in Arizona.

[1342] You definitely can do that in Nevada.

[1343] You can't do that in Montana.

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] You know, there's different things of what people decide is fair chase or ethical, and it depends.

[1346] Like Colorado, they won't even let you use a light on your site, on your bow site.

[1347] Can't have any electronics attached to your site for whatever reason.

[1348] They just started allowing lighted knocks.

[1349] Well, that was just in Oregon, too.

[1350] They've been outlawed in Oregon.

[1351] I think, I mean, I haven't used them in Oregon, but I think they are legal now.

[1352] But, yeah, I mean, as far as, so you're trying to define what is fair chase.

[1353] Right.

[1354] And so, yeah, there's a lot of these electronics, this or that.

[1355] But what we say is fair chase is not in a high fence.

[1356] Well, it's definitely not feeding a lion in a cage and then opening up the door right when the hunter pulls up.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] Did they do that?

[1359] Oh, yeah.

[1360] That is what they do.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] It's one of the reasons why a lot of these lions that get shot, they don't know what the fuck is going on.

[1363] They're bedded somewhere.

[1364] They just lay down.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] Because they're outside in this new environment.

[1367] Like, where am I?

[1368] They don't even know what it is because they've been living in this very small environment.

[1369] and then they let them out, and they let them out right when the hunter gets there.

[1370] That's tougher to justify.

[1371] It's very tough to justify.

[1372] I feel like it's not justifiable.

[1373] You're not hunting anymore.

[1374] You're just murdering an animal.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] It's not murder.

[1377] Murder's a person.

[1378] Now, can I?

[1379] So I'm going to not address that part and just address hunting in general.

[1380] And hunting in general is what's necessary for the future of animals.

[1381] I mean, until it gets down to a number where maybe the white or black or whatever rhino that is, that's only down to a handful, obviously, you're not going to hunt those.

[1382] But by and large, hunting is what keeps these animals, the population viable.

[1383] Well, and then there was also the case of Corey Knowles, who went over there.

[1384] That Knowlton.

[1385] How I say it?

[1386] Corey Nolton.

[1387] Nolton?

[1388] Yep.

[1389] Is that he say his name?

[1390] Yep.

[1391] Sorry, Corey.

[1392] It's okay.

[1393] We got it.

[1394] Why did I say Noel?

[1395] I have too many names in my head.

[1396] But anyway, when Corey went over there, and Corey's done the podcast as well.

[1397] Too much pot smoking.

[1398] You think so?

[1399] No. But that's what people like to say, right?

[1400] Yeah, people like to say a lot of stupid shit.

[1401] Let's have a pop quiz, motherfucker.

[1402] See who knows more shit.

[1403] But when Corey went over there, he spent a quarter of a million dollars to shoot an endangered rhino.

[1404] I think it was 350 ,000, wasn't it that much?

[1405] I think it's, I mean, it was a lot.

[1406] A lot of money.

[1407] Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[1408] And he said, that it was undervalued.

[1409] And he said the reason why the bidding didn't get higher was because there was almost pressure on people to do it.

[1410] But he explained very eloquently and very clearly on CNN and when he did my podcast about all the death threats that he got.

[1411] But he said, listen, that rhino was killing other rhinos.

[1412] That is why.

[1413] And not breeding.

[1414] Not breeding.

[1415] It was an old rhino that was past its breeding prime.

[1416] It wasn't breeding anymore.

[1417] And it was killing the young rhinos.

[1418] He did kill the female that had tried to mate with.

[1419] and it had killed another male and it was they were these is this is an endangered animal and this thing was killing other animals right so they had decided look we have to take this out of the population so what is the best way to do it they get a tremendous amount of money that can go for anti -poaching efforts and all these different things and so he explained it like this is this is an animal that they were going to kill they had to kill it because it was threatening this endangered population of only like a couple of thousand rhinos right right yeah it's a really interesting situation and people would like it if that wasn't the case they would like it if no the money is actually coming from animal welfare groups and from wildlife lovers who just want to see these animals alive yeah the difference is it's very rare that someone is going to give you $350 ,000 to keep a rhino alive and so that that's a magnified example but that the That's pretty much what's happening with all the animals.

[1420] I mean, you're not getting that much money, but you're getting money in exchange for their life, basically.

[1421] And it's for the betterment of the herd.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] I mean, that's hunting.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] Right?

[1426] I mean, that's like, like I said, very magnified because you're getting a huge amount of money and there's only a few animals.

[1427] But it's easy to see, hey, killing this one is going to save animals.

[1428] So that's really easy to see.

[1429] But that's pretty much what happens with all animals.

[1430] I mean, you're balancing that herd.

[1431] The other thing is they ate that rhino.

[1432] And a lot of people ate that rhino.

[1433] I mean, they gave that meat away to villages, and people don't know.

[1434] You not only can, you eat rhinos, apparently they taste good.

[1435] Same thing with elephant.

[1436] Elephant apparently tastes delicious.

[1437] Well, do you remember in the trophy movie, they could care less what elephant that guy killed, but they didn't like that it was small.

[1438] Do you remember that?

[1439] Because they wanted more meat.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] They don't care about, they care about eating.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] That's it.

[1444] So, I mean, as far as the local.

[1445] go.

[1446] I mean, so we here in America, it feels like, you know, we take up these causes and it's like, you know, we're the social justice warriors for the world.

[1447] It's like, we ought to probably check in with the people that actually live there, right?

[1448] Yeah, they want you to kill the lion.

[1449] Jesus Christ, these things to kill.

[1450] There was an article in the New York Times shortly after the lion, Cecil the Lion controversy that said in Zimbabwe, we did not cry for lions.

[1451] Right.

[1452] I mean, No, I read that one.

[1453] No, that's, and that's real life.

[1454] I mean, so, yeah, over here, everything.

[1455] It's all Lion King.

[1456] Everything lives, everybody's friends, but.

[1457] Simba is my friend.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] And no one's saying that lions need to die.

[1460] No. I mean, I look, I'm not in favor of those high fence things, and the way they keep those lions a lot of things.

[1461] Well, and you would never hunt a lion.

[1462] You've told me before you wouldn't hunt one.

[1463] No, right?

[1464] No desire.

[1465] Right.

[1466] So, but you understand hunting and how it works and how, and how, what we need.

[1467] It's just a weird facet of human nature that we've sort of boxed ourselves into this situation with Africa.

[1468] But Africa, I think, is like, you could look to that example and see how this is a very complex issue.

[1469] You know, especially, let's take all what Steve Ronella calls the charismatic out of the equation, like giraffes, which everybody loves.

[1470] Like, I had a whole bit about giraffes in one of my comedy specials that they're the one, animal that you can't say is like is not better off in the zoo yeah because like other animals they look like captive they look like they're contained yeah but giraffes are so happy baby's freedom like i used to take my kids to the zoo when my daughter was i don't even think she was two she's holding out a piece of lettuce and a fucking giraffe comes up huge head huge giant tongue wraps around the lettuce and takes it from it she's giggling and laughing yeah but they're so confident in giraffe behavior that they let babies feed them.

[1471] Yeah, that's impressive.

[1472] There's not another animal like that in the zoo.

[1473] No, no, because animals are, you know, wild animals, you don't know what they're going to do.

[1474] But what I said was that a giraffe wakes up every day in the zoo and goes, another day with no lions.

[1475] That's true.

[1476] It just sort of wanders around the zoo, having a, they look like they're having a blast.

[1477] Yeah.

[1478] But they have not a care in the world.

[1479] They don't mind at all being in that fence.

[1480] As long as you keep chucking that hay over the side, they're good to go.

[1481] coming keep dead hay coming baby yeah good to go but we have connections with certain animals elephants are a big one you know um lions are a big one giraffes for whatever reason are a big one even zebras people like why are you shooting a zebra it's too much like a horse yeah like we have these but if it's like an antelope like that you eat like oh that kind of makes sense yeah like we have these kind of make sense animals and again ward hogs nobody gives up fuck about wardhawks.

[1482] There's no one out there trying to save the wardhog.

[1483] People don't even know how many there are.

[1484] They don't care.

[1485] They can care less.

[1486] No, this is that.

[1487] Like, people worried about lions and no one is out there wondering how many wardhogs who are left in Africa.

[1488] I see it all the time.

[1489] It's like people will comment, not hunters, obviously, but they'll be like on my page and say, well, oh, I don't have a problem if you kill deer and elk, but there's no reason to kill a bear.

[1490] Right.

[1491] What are you talking about?

[1492] Have you ever had bear sausage?

[1493] Yeah.

[1494] Well, if you've had bear sauce, and you probably happen, but if you, if you have, it's goddamn good and why is it any different it's the same why is it any different yeah it's not yeah so it's just what they're it's just what they're ingrained to feel about an animal i think well they they seem too dog like i think so yeah that's a thing that's the thing with people bears just seem doglike oh well they're portrayed is being nice and friendly people have them for pets too like there's a lot of people that have bears pets like a lot of russian dudes seem a lot of people?

[1495] Yeah, man, on Instagram.

[1496] Do you have one, Jamie?

[1497] This is one motherfucker as a giant grizzly bear that he cuddles with, and people keep sending me videos of this guy.

[1498] I'm like, one day.

[1499] I know.

[1500] Yeah.

[1501] One day, this video's going to get dark.

[1502] God.

[1503] Yeah, look at this guy.

[1504] It's got a sweet bear.

[1505] He's just chilling with this bear.

[1506] This bear is my friend, and we hang out.

[1507] I take him places, and he likes my girlfriend, and I rub his back.

[1508] But one day he ate my baby.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] Oh.

[1511] yeah it looks like a cool bear it's a dope bear look they're fucking awesome animals man yeah i love all of them yeah but here's a deal if you had a thousand of those living in your neighborhood you'd have to thin the herd yeah you just have to and the the reality of all this stuff is super complex and i just do not think you get an understanding of it from you know in front of your laptop in vancouver you just you don't no for sure so i what i like is uh you know with regard to like this international wildlife council or even um it just seems like with this administration and people say good or bad or mostly bad it feels like who you're listening to about and that's what that's one thing that i would read cnn i listen to it's like it's the same topic two totally different slant so it's like what the hell who do you believe so that's why i was happy to be involved so i can actually hear but still it's still hard it's still hard it's still hard to listen and think, okay, so what's going on?

[1512] But with my whole thing is like, I kind of look at it as if I got somebody online giving me advice or you give me advice, I'll be like, well, Joe knows me. I'm going to listen to him.

[1513] That's why I kind of wanted to be involved in these councils and in this part of this decision making because they can listen to all this people talking shit all day.

[1514] but if I'm there and can actually weigh in, well, then they know me and, you know, it might, it should weigh a little more.

[1515] They know your experience in this.

[1516] Right.

[1517] And so that's why I want to be involved.

[1518] I'm not saying I'm going to agree and it's going to be exactly what I wanted every time, but, you know, I don't know how else to do it.

[1519] I don't know how else to do it.

[1520] And I know that with my voice, because, you know, they have trust in me about whatever, even if they agree or don't agree, I'll at least get to share my thoughts.

[1521] And so that's what I did, you know, like when I talked with Zinke the other day.

[1522] What is he like?

[1523] He's an avid hunter, right?

[1524] Yeah, that's what, you know, and I've read all these, man, you would think he was the word, just like Trump.

[1525] You know, people, you'd think they were Satan to some people.

[1526] But to me, I read the outside magazine article on them.

[1527] It sounded terrible.

[1528] And I was like, God, that's not good.

[1529] And I read a few other things about him.

[1530] I'm like, but to me personally, is seemed, would listen, seemed like somebody who, if we were sitting there talking about something and we came to a decision and it made sense, that's what he seemed like, like a normal, you know, a well -thought -out person.

[1531] Well, I think he's probably got a tremendous amount of pressure on him from a bunch of different angles.

[1532] Oh, for sure.

[1533] They're all interested in making money.

[1534] For sure.

[1535] And they think of someone that is pro - wildlife as being a roadblock to the money.

[1536] Like, oh, this fucking greenhouse loving hippie, tree -hugging asshole.

[1537] He, what he told me is he's concerned, he wants to increase hunting opportunities and, you know, public land opportunities, you know, so that's, and that's kind of what I want to hear.

[1538] So, I mean, maybe what would have, who you're talking to, I understand that.

[1539] but it sounds it sounds good i mean it gave me a better feeling talking to him than reading the other articles the articles about him right so uh and then the his staff great people like i said just like we'd sit here and talk and it makes sense and even talking with donald trump junior i'd be like god all the i wish we could just do this right now because it's like you can actually come to a consensus make a decision talk it through and be like that's a how it should be, you know, and it feels like it's different.

[1540] Politics are different because everybody, like you said, there's pressure from different places, but when I think of a politician, I think, you know, special interests groups and these other people that are influencing and you're wondering why is this for their own benefit?

[1541] And so you don't really know with this, it doesn't feel like that.

[1542] It feels like it's trying to make the right decision, you know, without being influenced.

[1543] I I know there's always going to be influence, but without like the special interest type influence.

[1544] And I don't know.

[1545] Well, I think the more people like you that are involved in this and the more people like you have a say or at least they come to you for advice, you're going to get at least a more balanced perspective of what the potential hazards are, what's important, what we need to concentrate on.

[1546] You know, I think regardless of what you think about Trump, what people were excited about about him as a president would be that the, economy would have an upswing and it did but lately the last couple of days has been a massive decline in the stock market yeah it's been yesterday i think was the biggest loss ever i don't understand the stock market i really don't get it a bunch of assholes throwing their hands in the air there's computers that are doing a lot of the calculations i don't know what's going on it's too fucking confusing i feel like if i just went down that rabbit hole i'd be stuck studying the stock market for weeks upon weeks and i just don't have that kind of time dude i got to play techno hunt with camhans well and i like i like reading stuff like you know stock marks at an all time high everybody's making money that's all i heard i heard that nothing but that like jobs like more jobs than ever you know unemployment's an all time low i'm like well you know when you have a guy who is just so hell bent on making money in business it's good for business yeah right so like that would be the benefit of having a guy like that but then apparently there's some downsides to that shit and the downsides are inflation and panic.

[1547] And then once the stock market starts going south and people start freaking out, then it really goes south.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] And now it's really gone south.

[1550] Well, last couple days.

[1551] I mean, it's...

[1552] That's all I live in the moment, Cam Haines.

[1553] I'm not here for your fucking rosy view of the future.

[1554] Oh, sorry.

[1555] I don't even understand the stock market.

[1556] I don't understand it.

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] I like hearing good news.

[1559] That's what I like hearing.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] I get comfort in hearing people that I'm not wondering about what their intentions are.

[1562] So that's why I enjoyed the discussions with those guys.

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] You know, if I can, you know, I just said, you know, it feels like as sportsmen, we took a couple of hits, we could use something on the positive side, and I think we're getting that on Friday.

[1565] So that's unhappy.

[1566] So on Friday, are they going to make new rules in terms of what you can bring back and what you can't bring back?

[1567] No, no, no. No, that's not about the international.

[1568] This is about the corridors.

[1569] Corridors.

[1570] Right, right, right.

[1571] So protecting migration routes for the big game animals here.

[1572] That's phenomenal.

[1573] That's very, very important.

[1574] Yeah, especially for animals like mule deer whose populations aren't really that good right now.

[1575] Yeah, elk.

[1576] Elks still need to be able to get out of the high country out from, you know, where they breed down when the weather hits to get down to where the feed is.

[1577] And if there's a bunch of gas rigs in there.

[1578] I'm not going to able to do it.

[1579] Do you follow Gritty Bowman on Instagram you do, right?

[1580] Yeah.

[1581] Brian was taking all these videos of elk in Evergreen.

[1582] Oh, I know.

[1583] Wander right through the town.

[1584] And they're huge.

[1585] Yeah, big bulls.

[1586] These are giant bulls that are just hanging out near cars.

[1587] I know.

[1588] They have zero fear of people.

[1589] I know.

[1590] And they know that once they're in the town, that's like they're on home base.

[1591] They're safe.

[1592] It's weird how they know that.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] You know, I know.

[1595] I did see that.

[1596] There's some nice animals in there.

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] It's beautiful.

[1599] People pulled over, just checking them out, and they're screaming and rutting.

[1600] It's just weird that they just migrate right through the town.

[1601] Yeah.

[1602] They probably figured out a long time ago, hey, just keep away from the cars and nobody fucks with you.

[1603] We're good to go.

[1604] But, you know, they have weird rules in Evergreen where you can kind of hunt in your backyard.

[1605] Oh, really?

[1606] Yeah.

[1607] I didn't know that.

[1608] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1609] Yeah, if you own a certain amount of property, I think it's like more than an acre.

[1610] Yeah.

[1611] You could fucking, boom, blouch, right in your backyard.

[1612] You got a full freezer then.

[1613] Yeah, I mean, I think that's exactly why they made those rules.

[1614] I think it's by section, you know, by unit, depending upon where you're at.

[1615] Right.

[1616] But in some places, you literally can hunt in your backyard.

[1617] So I would imagine the elk avoid those places.

[1618] I would think so.

[1619] They learn pretty quick.

[1620] They figure that shit out.

[1621] Isn't it interesting?

[1622] They learn quick.

[1623] Well, that's one of the things that they said about reintroduction of wolves in the Yellowstone.

[1624] They figured it out after a while.

[1625] They're like, okay.

[1626] Like, in the beginning, they were just sitting ducks, you know, but that was in the 90s, and now we're in 2018, it's essentially the ecosystem has sorted itself out.

[1627] Yeah.

[1628] And there's some good arguments that it sorted itself out for the better, you know, which is, you know, for the betterment of other wildlife, other plant species at the elk we're, you know, eating a shitload of them.

[1629] So it's interesting.

[1630] But also, you should note that where they brought those wolves back, you can't hunt.

[1631] right because it's the greater yellowstone eco systems like it's all all protected right so maybe they needed them there yeah it's hard to say yeah just don't bring them colorado fuckers don't do it there you go don't do it so what else are you going to discuss with zink you how often do you meet like what does this job entail or this position entail um on that council says there's you meet twice a year so i don't really know what about or when that's going to happen or when that's happen but uh for me and my my whole thing is like well if i want to get to know somebody i like to have them do what i do it's like you and so he says he has a bow and i'm like you i said what kind of bow he told me kind of bow i'm like what kind of bow i said uh what did he have it's not a hoary no no no it's an old bow oh really god i can you i like a high country something like that something like that but i'm like he so anyway i I said, well, I said, do you want to shoot that bow?

[1632] He's like, yeah.

[1633] I said, well, I'll hook him up with Hoyt.

[1634] They can't take any gifts.

[1635] They can't take gifts?

[1636] So I said, because I said that, and I said, well, don't worry about that.

[1637] I go, just shoot your bow.

[1638] I said, how about if I come back to D .C. there and we shoot bows.

[1639] You can't give him a gift as a friend?

[1640] I don't know.

[1641] Maybe from a company would be an issue.

[1642] It's pretty regulated.

[1643] Oh, that makes sense.

[1644] whatever.

[1645] You can only take bribes.

[1646] Under the table.

[1647] You can't take gifts.

[1648] You can't have an actual bow.

[1649] Isn't that funny?

[1650] You can take campaign contributions.

[1651] Yeah, but not a bow.

[1652] Yeah, you can't take a bow.

[1653] You could have lobbyists that are on staff, that are trying to get cashed and working those special interest groups.

[1654] Come on, baby.

[1655] Well, so next...

[1656] We talked about next week, me going back there and shooting bows.

[1657] With him?

[1658] Yep, and talking just about whatever.

[1659] You know, just kind of...

[1660] Film it.

[1661] I want to see his form.

[1662] That's right.

[1663] so we're trying to make that happen and I just you know like I said if you have somebody's ear you just want to be able to tell them what's important to you and that's all I want to do but I can do that generally better over something I care about like archery or running or lifting weights or whatever like that so that's my goal just to you know share what's what because I feel like I have a pretty good pulse on what's important to sportsmen and hunters here in North America and so I just wanted to share that well I know Donald Trump Jr. is an avid archer like he's really into it he's an avid hunter yeah and he and you got a chance to talk to him too yeah yeah quite a while yeah he wants to do the podcast this podcast yeah so he he want you know me me and him can talk talk about hunting okay we're in Don so think you'll smoke weed first for sure oh for sure what's he like no total normal i mean how's that possible how's it possible how's it possible you grow up with donald trump as your dad you got a golden toilet bowl when you're a little kid that's what i said i said you know i go because i i haven't met any of of uh don't's kids except for don junior so i'm like well but i follow him on instagram you know you kind of get i do too kind of a sort of a feel for what i said man, I go, you know, in talking to you, I said, it seems weird to say, but seem like a normal guy, which your dad's a billionaire.

[1664] I don't know.

[1665] Is he a billionaire, right?

[1666] Oh, yeah.

[1667] Yeah.

[1668] So doesn't that seem, it seems surprising he's like, seems like just like we would be.

[1669] Right.

[1670] Total normal.

[1671] I mean, he's, I follow on my Instagram.

[1672] I see the pictures of his daughter super cute, the fishing pictures.

[1673] But I saw him on Tucker Carlson the other night.

[1674] told him this and we were talking in Vegas and he was like just laying it down for a one minute clip on instagram on tucker carlson was for fox news and laying it down and i was like god i never really had followed his political or his his public speaking type life so i was like holy crap this guy's pretty dialed in it's probably the plan he probably takes over when he might he might i mean he's 40 so he's just kind of getting his feet under slides right in in that world and Donald Trump dynasty, just like they did with the Bushes.

[1675] That's right.

[1676] No, all of them.

[1677] Clintons, the Bushes?

[1678] You know, once you're in there, it's like, that's all they want.

[1679] Isn't that interesting?

[1680] It's crazy.

[1681] But he, I would feel, I mean, man. Well, that's what Dudley told me. Dudley said he wished that Don Jr. was running for president.

[1682] He said Don Jr. is very reasonable.

[1683] Oh, man, totally.

[1684] Totally.

[1685] But it's funny, if he says one thing wrong, one thing, one slip up of a word, which, by the way, everybody does.

[1686] every day i do it every day yeah me too one one slip up of the word cori nolton right one fuck up like that and then this dunce i mean you you see all the it's just magnified ridiculous hate that comes his way and the uh the attacks against him and people people right now listening to this probably yelling at their phone because they're fucking justified he's a piece of shit he's a shill he's a this he's a that it's yeah yeah it's it's i mean it is really hard not to get pissed off.

[1687] What's really hard to be unbiased.

[1688] It's really hard to just have a balanced perspective.

[1689] I don't think anybody does a good job as president.

[1690] I've never seen a single person do it well.

[1691] I've seen Obama give very good speeches.

[1692] I think he's very statesman -like.

[1693] I think he's very...

[1694] What Obama did was excellent was he was very composed and articulate and smooth.

[1695] And he represented a highly educated like a high level of human being in terms of his intellect and the way he carries himself and I think that that's good for the country you know but I think the way you look at the drone attacks look at the attacks on on whistleblowers and on the press and there's a lot of bad shit about the Obama administration and everybody wants to sleep sweep under the rug because I think nobody's a good president I think it's a terrible job it it I didn't like how he he sort of started a war on cops you remember when he was you know, crucifying some of the arrests they had and it started, people were looking at cops thinking, are these the good guys or the bad guys?

[1696] I didn't like that because maybe there are some bad cops, but there's bad everything you do.

[1697] Every job has bad whatever.

[1698] So instead of highlighting the people out there protecting our interests and serving the public, he was highlighting the quote, bad cops, I guess, and it put them all in a bad light.

[1699] I didn't like that.

[1700] Whereas Trump, he knows, you know, he's highlighting good police work.

[1701] He's highlighting the military.

[1702] He's, you know, pride in the good old United States of America.

[1703] I like that.

[1704] So, I mean, I don't know.

[1705] Yeah, well, the thing that drove me nuts, the most nuts about Obama was that crazy speech that he said, if you have a business, that business uses the highway, you didn't build that.

[1706] Yeah, you didn't build that.

[1707] You didn't build that business.

[1708] Oh.

[1709] You didn't build that.

[1710] Like that is that is the craziest way to look at things.

[1711] Yeah, if I was his friend, I would have said, okay This is not the way to say now.

[1712] What he did I think he started like highlighted the victim mentality Everybody's a victim whereas I like Trump.

[1713] He says you're in control here's your opportunity Make the most of it.

[1714] I would have just phrased it very differently.

[1715] I would have said if you have a business and you started yourself Congratulations.

[1716] This is what American ingenuity is all about.

[1717] I would have just phrased it very differently.

[1718] I would have said if you have a business and you started yourself.

[1719] Congratulations.

[1720] This is what American ingenuity is all about.

[1721] I would have.

[1722] I would have out, but we all have to be aware, not just you, not signaling that person in the South, you didn't build up, you didn't do it.

[1723] I would say we all have to be aware that without our infrastructure, we would, none of us would be able to do this, so we all have to support this beautiful system that we have.

[1724] So in an empowering way, instead of, you didn't do it, you didn't build it, you didn't do it.

[1725] Taking credit away from people who worked their ass off.

[1726] And by the way, he's a guy who's never been in business.

[1727] Right.

[1728] Just, he's a lawyer, he went from being a lawyer to being a professional policy.

[1729] politician to being the president.

[1730] Bam, bam, bam.

[1731] That's one thing I don't like is people who are like their goal is to be a politician.

[1732] Well, I don't like that.

[1733] I'd like it if they were awesome at it, but no one's awesome at it.

[1734] I like, it seems like the best, like even back in, you know, when our country was founded, those weren't politicians.

[1735] Those were guys who had influence, who made good decisions, and then they were politicians.

[1736] You know what I mean?

[1737] I've been watching Vikings a lot lately.

[1738] This new show I've been watching.

[1739] okay and uh it seems like there's no good leaders yeah in the viking world there was bad leaders this leader suck nobody wants nobody wants a goddamn leader and when you're a leader of 350 million people or whatever the hell we have here it's tough it's just impossible doesn't make no sense what's going on jammy i just looked up that quote it got you didn't build that out of context uncut and unedited but he said it he said those two sentences but not in that way oh if you got a business you didn't build that hey you know somebody else made that happen Fake news.

[1740] Okay, so what is the actual quote?

[1741] Just wait on.

[1742] I mean, here's the...

[1743] Let's hear the real quote.

[1744] If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.

[1745] There was a great teacher.

[1746] Okay, but what is...

[1747] If you've got a business, you didn't build that.

[1748] Okay, somebody invested in roads and bridges.

[1749] Okay, here it is.

[1750] Somebody helped create this unbelievable American system that we have allowed you to thrive, that we have, that allowed you to thrive.

[1751] somebody invested in the roads and bridges if you got a business you didn't build that that's just a shit way to say it I don't care even in context somebody else made that happen not somebody else we all chipped in did somebody up I know that's what he's saying I think I know that's what he's saying but it's a shit way to say it it's a shit disempowering way to say it is that's what I don't like it takes credit away from the people that there's a way to do that there's a way to phrase that that needs an edit and a rewrite and by the way how the fuck could he even have time to do that when you're writing I mean you're writing under the pressure of being the president of the United States I totally sympathize I get it I'm not saying I would have done better I would have done way worse but it still sucks yeah it's just not a good way to say things I agree no you didn't do that I don't like you said you said disempowering and that's exactly right and so um it feels like this is there's a different tone right now and I'm not saying you know our president is Just say it.

[1752] White people.

[1753] You like white people.

[1754] I'm not saying that at all.

[1755] I'm not saying that at all.

[1756] But I'm just saying nobody's perfect, but I like that part of the message.

[1757] Yeah.

[1758] Well, he definitely has that part of the message, but he's obviously said a bunch of stupid shit, too.

[1759] But he's also a guy who flies off the cuff.

[1760] I mean, this, we have to take into consideration what this guy was his entire career.

[1761] He's a giant, large -in -life personality with crazy hair who puts his name on everything.

[1762] And then he ran for president.

[1763] Like, of course he's going to stay that guy when he becomes president.

[1764] We go, no, no, no, no. Now that you're president, it's like when you're in, if you're playing beauty and the beast and you're the beast, you got to act like the beast.

[1765] Now you got the role.

[1766] You got to act like the beast.

[1767] Like, why are you still acting like Hugh Grant?

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] You know, you can't.

[1770] I know.

[1771] And it's the role of being the president is this, you know, this majestic top of the mountain that we look at.

[1772] Like, oh, he's the guy.

[1773] He's the main dude.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] You're supposed to act like the president.

[1776] That's what they say he's not presidential.

[1777] It's like he never has been.

[1778] But you know what?

[1779] He's been a leader.

[1780] Yeah.

[1781] You know, so here's what I know.

[1782] I don't see anybody, I don't see ISIS over here bombing the shit out of the United States anymore.

[1783] You know, because they're almost, they're all dead.

[1784] There's a lot of that.

[1785] But they were never bombing the shit of the United States.

[1786] They're trying to.

[1787] There's a few dummies that snuck over here and did some stupid shit.

[1788] They're not here.

[1789] Horrible shit.

[1790] Yeah.

[1791] Look, the one thing that the military has said.

[1792] friends of mine that are in the military and guys like Tim Kennedy that rejoined.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] He said that they feel like for the first time, in a long time, the military is basically got the handcuffs off.

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] And that they are allowed to do things the way they think would be best.

[1797] Right.

[1798] And a lot of people don't like to hear that.

[1799] They like to say, well, no, the politicians are supposed to control the military and it's supposed to be, you're not supposed to allow the generals to make the decisions.

[1800] Right.

[1801] There's a debate back.

[1802] This is, again, like a lot of other things.

[1803] This is a very complex, nuanced conversation that you'd have to have all the facts at your disposal.

[1804] I don't.

[1805] No, either do I. But I can say they're not bombing the shit in the United States.

[1806] It's not like a complete redneck.

[1807] Right.

[1808] And that's how I see it.

[1809] But I understand there is, I mean.

[1810] Well, you need a strong military because the world has some dark places.

[1811] And anybody who doesn't think that you need a strong military, you need to pay attention to what the fuck is going on in Syria, in North Korea.

[1812] and a lot of parts of the world where there is chaos and this is an entirely real possibility anywhere.

[1813] Anywhere that exists, it can exist here.

[1814] If you see horrible tyranny and destruction and chaos and other parts of the world, the only reason why it's not here is because of geography.

[1815] If they can get there, they can get here.

[1816] If things can go sideways in Iran or in Iraq or wherever the fuck it is, they can go sideways in America too.

[1817] And if you don't think that we need military, you're goddamn crazy.

[1818] Yeah.

[1819] Because, look, I would love it if we didn't.

[1820] I would love it if we lived in this utopian world where everybody treats people the way you or I would, where you don't have to worry about.

[1821] If you were and I were neighbors, I would never worry about you invading me. You know, I'd be like, oh, Cam's never going to, like, bring a gun over and fucking take over my house.

[1822] He's a nice guy.

[1823] If the world was like that, it would be wonderful.

[1824] It would be wonderful.

[1825] But right now, it's not currently like that.

[1826] And people that I know, like Tim Kennedy, a guy who's been there, a guy who's done that.

[1827] A guy like Jocco Willink, a guy who's been there.

[1828] Those are the guys that I turn to.

[1829] When I want to know what's going on over there, I want to get a real perspective.

[1830] You want to get a real perspective for someone who's been in active duty in a combat situation who's been to these horrific parts of the world.

[1831] They can tell you what's going on.

[1832] And when they tell you that it's a better situation that the military has the handcuffs off, I listen to them.

[1833] That's a good sign.

[1834] Yeah, that's getting, and I, yeah, I talked to Tim at Shoshow and he, you know, about going back in and he's had that same thing.

[1835] So, I mean, I don't know, it just, it feels like, I don't know, it feels better that we're not having terrorist issues over here anymore.

[1836] Yeah, I mean, I really wish that everyone would come back home.

[1837] I really wish that no one was in Afghanistan.

[1838] I really wish that we weren't the police people for the world.

[1839] I really wish that we're not sending young people to die in foreign wars that don't make any sense to you or I or anybody that really, knows what the fuck is going on there but this is the world we live in right yeah yeah you know manage it the best we can yeah protect us protect people here yeah yeah and hopefully protect people there too yeah you know it's just now that's why you got to respect the people that are over there doing that and and you know it's just like you know what a sacrifice you know and it's uh i i want to never take it for granted that there are you know we're safe here things are going on but Just what's the sacrifice is made by people in the military.

[1840] It's, I never want to forget it.

[1841] Yeah, it is a very controversial subject with people because if you're on the left, you want less military, you want less war, you want less violence, you want less everything.

[1842] And that's a totally reasonable position.

[1843] But I think in a lot of ways, it's like wildlife.

[1844] Like you're talking about it as someone who's never experienced it.

[1845] And I think once you experience it and once you've been.

[1846] to these parts of the world, at least my perspective based on the descriptions that I've gotten from people that have been there, that it's way more complex.

[1847] There are just parts of the world that are fucked.

[1848] Yeah.

[1849] No. Yeah.

[1850] It's not black and white, that's for sure.

[1851] And I think it's going to take many, many generations for those parts of the world to become a better place for people to live in and sort of catch up to what we think of as civilization in the Western world.

[1852] Yeah.

[1853] You know, I mean, you look at parts of the Middle East where the women in Iran are risking their lives and their safety by not wearing a religious outfit.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] There's all these protests where these women are on the streets where not wearing the hijab and they're walking around and they risk being imprisoned.

[1856] Yeah.

[1857] It's amazing.

[1858] This is fucking crazy.

[1859] I know.

[1860] And these women are brave as hell, man. And they're out there just saying, fuck this.

[1861] Enough already.

[1862] Yeah.

[1863] And they're taking pictures like that and they're putting it up on social media.

[1864] and, you know, there's a big revolt there right now where people are just tired of it.

[1865] They want fucking freedom.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] You know, and they see what's going on in the rest of the world.

[1868] They have the Internet.

[1869] They get a chance to see what's going on in America.

[1870] And that's one of the things that we always have to remember about America.

[1871] Yeah, America might be fucked in some ways.

[1872] And we definitely have issues.

[1873] But there is more opportunity and more possibility for you to do what you want to do here than almost anywhere on the planet earth that's a fact that's a fact yeah that's a fact and there's more art that comes out of here and there's more comedy that comes out of here there's more there's so much more movies this there's a lot of great shit that comes out of this one spot yeah it's a it's a great place to i mean we're blessed to live here and have we've only known this you know yeah and i couldn't imagine living someplace where it wouldn't matter how smart or how hard of a worker you are or how, you know, and whatever talented you were, you weren't getting out of there.

[1874] Right.

[1875] And that's how it is in some places.

[1876] And so, you know, in here, it's not like that.

[1877] And man, I just hope we never, I never need to forget that.

[1878] I never want to forget that.

[1879] And I just hope other people just realize that because it's not like I've been everywhere, but I know that the challenges like the women have that you were talking about.

[1880] It's like, I couldn't imagine that.

[1881] Yeah.

[1882] Look, one of the reasons why I'm pro -America is because I'm pro -human being.

[1883] Yeah.

[1884] And I think there's more, there's more chances for people to be who they really want to be and become what they really want to be here.

[1885] You know, and I support a lot of left -wing ideas.

[1886] Equality and freedom and gay marriage.

[1887] I think you should be able to do whatever the fuck you want to do.

[1888] I mean, go have fun.

[1889] Just be nice.

[1890] Don't, just be you.

[1891] Just go be you.

[1892] Yeah.

[1893] So when, you know, people see me and they, like, see this giant American flag behind me. Yeah.

[1894] And they think immediately, oh, right wing, oh, fucking conservative, all right, or whatever this is.

[1895] What is this?

[1896] Yeah.

[1897] What do you support imperialism?

[1898] You support this?

[1899] Like, no, I support the idea of what America is.

[1900] Yeah.

[1901] That's what I support.

[1902] Yeah.

[1903] Me too.

[1904] Fuck yeah.

[1905] Woo!

[1906] So, L. Cunning.

[1907] September.

[1908] Are we back?

[1909] Same spot?

[1910] Going to the Deseret?

[1911] Is that locked in?

[1912] Hell yeah.

[1913] That was crazy.

[1914] Yeah.

[1915] That's a beautiful place.

[1916] No, I know.

[1917] That was one of the most fun times I've ever had.

[1918] Yeah.

[1919] Well, we're gonna do it again.

[1920] I'm excited.

[1921] Me too.

[1922] 470 ,000 views.

[1923] That video was a lot of fun to make too, man. I just wish that they had put in the elk that you shot.

[1924] Yeah.

[1925] Your elk, you did wind up shooting an elk, but did the video that did not get the actual arrow hitting the elk on camera so what the issue was it's tough you know bow hunting is hard mm -hmm bow hunting on film it's even harder yeah and so it's uh you know we do the best we can to tell the story um i don't think it does tell the story very well no but we do the best we can it is hard you know i think it should be a lot longer that's what i think i think um i think that thing should been at least an hour and i think um even then it wouldn't have told the whole story because you look at it like it's one of the things that uh i i've told a friend when we were watching a hunting show before they're like wow it looks so easy they just go out there and they always shoot something i'm like man to shoot one of these shows like we were watching meat eater first of all meat eater is one of the rare shows that they'll have a lot of shows where they don't they're not successful yeah like i've done two different shows with them we weren't successful yeah we just go out there seven days well that's most hunting most hunting yeah so when you boil all that down to 22 minutes with commercials.

[1926] It just looks like inevitably you're going to get to about 18 minutes in, someone's going to shoot something.

[1927] Yay, they got it.

[1928] It seems like they're shooting things that are definitely going to be there.

[1929] But that's not the case.

[1930] No, there's no guarantee, especially with the bow.

[1931] Yes, especially with the bow.

[1932] And I think, well, I mean, we can film on ourselves.

[1933] We can film ourselves and make it as long as we want.

[1934] That's what I think we should do.

[1935] I've been thinking about that a lot because I was frustrated by that whole thing.

[1936] and this archaic idea that everything has to be 10 minutes long.

[1937] You're talking to a guy who does a three -hour podcast.

[1938] I don't buy that.

[1939] We've been talking for quite a while today.

[1940] And millions of people will listen to this.

[1941] So I just, I don't buy it.

[1942] I think it's an archaic, antiquated way of looking at things.

[1943] I don't think it's right.

[1944] And I think this idea that people have an incredibly short attention span, listen, people are consumers of entertainment.

[1945] And especially people who love hunting, I watch a lot of videos.

[1946] I watch a lot of hunting videos.

[1947] I watch a lot of videos on science.

[1948] I watch a lot of shit.

[1949] I watch hours and hours of stuff, things that I'm interested in.

[1950] The people that are interested in elk hunting, they don't want to just see a couple guys laughing and joking around and an arrow hits a big bowl and everybody's happy.

[1951] No, they want to see, like, what happened?

[1952] Like, what was the struggle?

[1953] There was a lot of struggle.

[1954] We had to keep hammering.

[1955] We did have to keep hammering.

[1956] That was fun.

[1957] That one clip was hilarious.

[1958] That was told, by the way, folks, who listened to this or watching this, If you watched that clip of Cam and I. That was not rehearsed.

[1959] No. That just came out of nowhere.

[1960] We were just fucking around.

[1961] We were.

[1962] Keep hammering.

[1963] He's been around a little while.

[1964] Oh, it's been around a long time.

[1965] They thought that was the origins of it.

[1966] They did that.

[1967] That's how good we sold it.

[1968] Well, that's your sense of humor that I think most people are not aware of.

[1969] That's what you say that's very, you have a very funny, dry sense of humor.

[1970] Oh.

[1971] You know, that was a fun.

[1972] Yeah, we had.

[1973] It was a lot of fun.

[1974] So who's coming this time?

[1975] Is Adam Greentree going to come down?

[1976] Oh, where?

[1977] To Utah?

[1978] Oh, I don't know.

[1979] This is, listen, Under Armour, kick your shit together.

[1980] This is what we need.

[1981] Remy Warren, Adam Green Tree, John Dudley, Cam Haines, me, Ben O 'Brien.

[1982] Make it happen.

[1983] Sell it.

[1984] Wrap it up.

[1985] Make a video.

[1986] An hour long.

[1987] How about just, Under Armour, let me film it.

[1988] Just let me handle this.

[1989] Guys don't know what the fuck you're doing.

[1990] No, I think...

[1991] Ten minutes.

[1992] I know.

[1993] I think we can I just want to man I've always wanted to just share the hunting adventure just the real hunting adventure and give it the content the time to develop the story just let it evolve you know do you watch those hushin guys on on YouTube no great videos are they good yeah and they got a lot of content and one of the things that you really get out of their content is you really get a sense of how difficult it is and mostly what they're doing is public land hunting Oh born and raised?

[1994] That's another group of guys Yeah, I watch that I watch those guys too Yeah But one of the beautiful things about YouTube is There's no time parameters Yeah No and people Yeah I mean We are just kind of locked into this 22 minutes With a commercials type thing From the outdoor channel And it doesn't need to be like I was talking with Branlan Shockey about this Back at And he's so tacit as far as a filmmaker goes.

[1995] And even in Womack, who put together our Utah, I mean, without the handcuffs of time restraint, I just think there's the sky's the limit.

[1996] I agree, too.

[1997] I think the story should be what the story is.

[1998] And just say, just make it what it is.

[1999] You don't, I don't give a fuck if it's 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes.

[2000] People will watch it.

[2001] People will watch it.

[2002] Yeah.

[2003] And the ones who don't, they weren't going to watch it anyway.

[2004] Yeah.

[2005] The idea that, like, you get it in 10.

[2006] 10 minutes and somewhere another it's more digestible in 10 minutes like stop yeah that's not real this is a people have these weird ideas in their head about things like oh but the statistic show that more people watch 10 minute videos well if you want to watch videos about babies chewing bubble gum or some stupid shit like that yeah yeah the 10 minutes but you're supposed to be showing respect to what is one of the more difficult and misunderstood pursuits in the United States States and that's bow hunting right it's incredibly difficult and incredibly misunderstood yeah and i think it's a noble pursuit and i think it's also it's one of the more intriguing things and more interesting things i've ever done in my life well i know and i don't know if you captured all in one film but i just know that you know if somehow we could capture the just the more of the journey because there's people that don't know anything about it just like want to know how to get started I don't know if you'd have one film that do all that, but I just know that there's people hungry for knowledge out there that we're reaching, even with this podcast or with social media, that haven't been ingrained.

[2007] So it's like we're making these films to people who are already hunters.

[2008] Right.

[2009] And already know everything.

[2010] And so to them, oh, we've got to do this in a short period of time.

[2011] Or those are going to get bored because they've done this a million times themselves.

[2012] Well, that's bullshit.

[2013] No, we need to make it for the masses.

[2014] Exactly.

[2015] Because that's who we're reaching now.

[2016] Yeah.

[2017] I mean, it's the millions and millions of millions.

[2018] millions we're reaching more people than actually buy hunting licenses so we need to keep that keep we need to remember that yeah and the idea that you're even reaching hunters that they're going to get bored after 10 minutes that's crazy no yeah because i'm like you i watch all sorts of hunting stuff especially you and me we're entertaining as fuck let it roll yeah like the uh what what were we saying oh yeah with the with the um chicken tied to the dog neck It was one of the funniest things Cam's ever said He was talking about this guy His dog was my dogs killed a few chickens And I'm like fuck how'd you get your dog to stop killing chickens He goes oh we tied a dead chicken to his neck And Cam goes It should tie a dead stripper to your neck And it was just out of the blue And I was fucking crying laughing But that was one of the funniest things you said but there was one other one.

[2019] What was the other one?

[2020] We had a hard time remembering it.

[2021] Remember the other one that you'd said before?

[2022] Yeah.

[2023] It was even funnier than that.

[2024] But my point is, he's got fucking stand -up comedy timing.

[2025] That sounds like something that, like, one of my comic friends would have said.

[2026] Oh, okay.

[2027] I wish I could remember the other one.

[2028] There was another one that was funnier.

[2029] I know.

[2030] Fuck.

[2031] I know.

[2032] God damn it.

[2033] We're going to remember.

[2034] We laughed about the dead stripper tied your neck for a long time now.

[2035] Many times, many times.

[2036] It's also, too, at the end of the day, you're kind of exhausted, and you're tired, delirious.

[2037] You're eating dinner.

[2038] Yeah.

[2039] So that's where the timing comes in.

[2040] Exactly.

[2041] Well, it's like those hunting camps are so much fun.

[2042] Like you, at the end of the day, you and me and Ben sitting around laughing, cracking jokes.

[2043] Yeah.

[2044] It's the fun of it.

[2045] And the family up there, the land family, love those guys.

[2046] Salt of the Earth.

[2047] You know, Tom Land and his boys.

[2048] They just, it's just fun to be.

[2049] They feel like family when you go back up there.

[2050] You'll feel that this year.

[2051] Well, he's a great guy.

[2052] The whole staff they had.

[2053] There was fantastic.

[2054] It's just an awesome place.

[2055] And it's such a beautiful piece of land, you know.

[2056] This is this 240 ,000 acres.

[2057] Yeah, and that's, you know, I know we're probably wrapping this up, but so when you talk about hunting and conservation real quick, you know, on that piece of property, 240, they could make more money by running cattle on it.

[2058] Right.

[2059] Do you realize that?

[2060] But if they ran cattle on it, the habitat would be thrashed.

[2061] Right.

[2062] The water sources would be thrashed, all those flowers, the grouse that live there, gone.

[2063] Because it's just cattle.

[2064] But if his goal is making money, they could just do that.

[2065] But the goal is to make money, but also enhance the habitat.

[2066] And that's, you know, hunting is the best way to do that.

[2067] Yeah.

[2068] And it's just a magical place.

[2069] Like the mule deer that we saw wandering around, this big mule deer.

[2070] And they have everything there, all sorts of different wildlife.

[2071] It's just, and it's gorgeous country, too.

[2072] It is.

[2073] Beautiful.

[2074] Yeah.

[2075] All right.

[2076] let's wrap this bitch up Cameron R. Haynes on Instagram and is that the same as Twitter but you don't even use Twitter really right No Facebook do you use Facebook at all anymore Little bit people die off that right Instagram's got it Instagram's got it right now all right And next next video we make folks be about four hours long No we can't the video the hunting video We're gonna keep hammering we're gonna keep hammering Bye everybody