#467 - Peter Giuliano

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] I love when people are really, really, really, really into shit.

[4] And you, sir, are really, really, really into coffee.

[5] That's true.

[6] And what's important about people like you is that people like me who really do love coffee, but I know nothing about it and I'm not going to do all that research.

[7] It's just not going to happen, man. It's just too much work.

[8] I need someone like you out there.

[9] that's obsessed with coffee, that can bring me some coffee that smells like lemons.

[10] I'm here for you.

[11] What is this stuff that you brought?

[12] You brought this Ethiopian blend that was warm when we got it.

[13] Yeah.

[14] Okay, so I brought you Ethiopian coffee because, okay, at some point, so I'm a coffee guy, right?

[15] I've been working in coffee for years, 25 years or more.

[16] And when you're a coffee guy, everybody asks you their coffee questions.

[17] And the number one question that people start asking you is, what's your favorite coffee?

[18] You know, everybody wants to know that.

[19] So, now, most coffee people, when they're asked that question, lie a little bit.

[20] The way I lied was, I would say, that's like asking a parent who their favorite child is.

[21] You know what I mean?

[22] You're not allowed.

[23] That's ridiculous.

[24] That's what you know you've got a coffee problem.

[25] Right, right.

[26] Yeah.

[27] You're not allowed to do that, right.

[28] You're not allowed to do that.

[29] You're not allowed to play favorites, et cetera.

[30] But putting that lie aside, most coffee people are affectionate about coffee from Ethiopia because that's where coffee's from.

[31] It originates in Ethiopia.

[32] Pour some of that beautiful shit out.

[33] It smells so good, by the way.

[34] What is the name of this particular blend that you made?

[35] It's called Yergashv.

[36] And Yergashv is the name of a town in southern Ethiopia.

[37] And it is, in coffee to coffee people, Yirgashv is like mecca.

[38] Yeah, that's the spot.

[39] This smells unbelievable.

[40] And that's why it's so famous.

[41] The coffee smells sort of like flowers.

[42] And then like lemons, like lemon oil or something, and that's really unique.

[43] If you taste coffee that smells and tastes like this, it's almost certain that it comes from Ethiopia because of the variety they grow there, because the way that they process it, et cetera, it makes it really special.

[44] So this was roasted by a company in San Francisco called Wrecking Ball Coffee, and the coffee is called Ethiopia classic Yergashv.

[45] Classic meaning...

[46] How do you spell Yurgishev again?

[47] Y -I -G -R - Wait, Y -I -R -G...

[48] Sorry, Y -I -R -G -G -A -C -H -E -F -F -E.

[49] Isn't a weird thing where you have to write it down to look at it to make sure it's right?

[50] Well, the other weird thing, too, is that that's one way to spell it.

[51] There's like, if you're in Yurgishev and you look at signs, they're all spelled a different way.

[52] Because it's actually in Amharic, it's a different language.

[53] And they just translate it to English in various ways.

[54] So you can spell it.

[55] I've been involved in Internet.

[56] Okay, here's another coffee geek admission.

[57] I've been involved in these Internet conversations about how you should spell Yurgashev.

[58] And also, how you should pronounce it.

[59] In Ethiopian, they pronounce it differently in a way that I can't actually pronounce it.

[60] How do they say?

[61] Give it a shot.

[62] Urgachepha.

[63] Yeah, exactly.

[64] That last thing is like a breathing out.

[65] But you just did it.

[66] How come you didn't do that?

[67] You feel pretentious?

[68] There was an Ethiopian guy next to me, yeah.

[69] exactly you feel like you know it's like saying i'd just been to roma or something yeah that is a weird thing i have my friend amber lion who's coming on the podcast soon uh she was talking about bahrain yeah exactly instead of bahrain which is almost she was saying bahrain right but then she she let it go and she said bahrain i'm like wait a minute yeah it's got to be one of the other well it's like here in southern california when the newscaster suddenly just goes into the perfect Spanish pronunciation oh yes yes you know brito yeah exactly that's very important if you want to maintain the Latin audience.

[70] You've got to roll your R's, bitch.

[71] But anyway, I don't try for that with coffee names because it's a little too wild.

[72] Well, you're taking a chance on being, like, already, like, kind of labeled as a crazy coffee person.

[73] But if you could pronounce all the words, then the pretentiousness level gets very risky.

[74] Well, it's, you know, that's a thing with being a coffee person, you know, because people are afraid that you're going to be like a kind of a douchebag about your coffee, you know?

[75] Because it's a weird conundrum, because on the one hand, people, people are.

[76] people like that you take it seriously and and because you're trying to make you're trying to make you know embrace something that's super delicious right and you want it to be more delicious and better tasting and stuff like that and so that causes you to learn stuff about the geography of where coffee comes from and all this weird trivia you know and and and uh you start to learn about that stuff and it's good and but at the same time it's very easy when you get really into something to start to alienate people yeah and that goes for anything that goes for wine or food or, you know, any sort of hobby, you know, when people can't talk about anything else.

[77] And then they start to get kind of snobby about stuff.

[78] Yeah.

[79] But, and so it's a struggle for coffee people all the time, you know, because what I know, and I've learned in my many years of doing this thing, is that especially in the morning, you know, people just want their coffee.

[80] Right.

[81] They don't want to fuck around with, with, you know, all this stuff like that and we learned that in you know so i started as a barista i worked for many many years as a barista behind the car behind the bar making people their coffee in the morning so do you really appreciate like when someone's a connoisseur like the difference between the guys like i just want a cup of coffee and a guy's like what's your blends today yeah yeah yeah like who's really into it well lots of times it's the same person like like a person that later in the day will be like all into what kind of coffee it is and really particular everybody just their first cup of coffee they just want a freaking cup of coffee.

[82] Even coffee pros like me. You know, we dispense with all that stuff.

[83] That time when you, you know, you've been there.

[84] You wake up in the morning.

[85] You don't know what's going on.

[86] All you want is a cup of coffee and people to be nice to you for the first couple of hours of your day, usually.

[87] Most of the time when I don't have any time and I just want some sort of caffeine product.

[88] I have one of those little espresso things when you put those little capsules in there and you crunch it down, you press the button and a shot of espresso comes out.

[89] Yeah, yeah.

[90] Are those bad?

[91] Well, it doesn't taste as good as real espresso.

[92] That's the thing.

[93] They're convenient, you know, and whether they're, there's a lot of disadvantages to a thing like that.

[94] On the other hand, I've tasted delicious coffee out of those.

[95] Really?

[96] If the coffee going in is good, if the machine is working right, I mean, there's all sorts of different kinds of machines.

[97] What is the, I don't expect you to know this because you don't.

[98] manufacture these things, but what is the, they're plastic, right?

[99] Is that what it is?

[100] Like a metal or a plastic?

[101] There are some that are made out of aluminum, others that are made out of plastic, yeah.

[102] Yeah, I think the ones I have are aluminum.

[103] So is that stuff okay for the flavor when you're heating that up?

[104] Yeah.

[105] If you're heating up the aluminum, it doesn't mess it up?

[106] Yeah, that's not the problem.

[107] The problem, that's, aluminum's pretty, you know, resistant to stuff like that, and they make that metal work.

[108] You know, it's like a soda pop can.

[109] So they've engineered it to work well.

[110] So it's not an issue with flavor.

[111] It's just an issue of what's in it.

[112] Well, right.

[113] And also how the machine works.

[114] Right.

[115] So if, like, you guys made coffee here today, and you did it in a great way by boiling the water in a kettle and then you have a French press and you use it.

[116] Now, the great thing about that is that you're boiling the water.

[117] The water is getting to $212 .12.

[118] That's where it boils.

[119] And then by the time you pour it in the French press, it's cooled off.

[120] Maybe it's 207, 205.

[121] Is that where you should have it at?

[122] 195 to 205 degrees is where you should be brewing coffee.

[123] You're fucking crazy.

[124] I know.

[125] He got so intense.

[126] You're like, 1905 to 205 degrees.

[127] This is the honey spot.

[128] It is.

[129] It's the honey spot.

[130] That's where we get, you know, guys like me get fired up over stuff like that.

[131] Well, we bought, today is the first day of using it here.

[132] What I have at home, which is, I think it's called Breiville, B -R -E -V -I -L -E.

[133] And it'll show you like you could have one button for U -L -L -L -T, the other button for French Press.

[134] And so this is the French Press button, so I assume that they get it right.

[135] Then that's even better.

[136] Then what it did, and this is Breville, they make some wonderful.

[137] That's how I say Breville.

[138] Yeah.

[139] Coffee equipment.

[140] Yeah, they do.

[141] And so the French press button will, I'm sure, get it to 205 degrees.

[142] We should put a thermometer in that bitch to find out whether or not.

[143] Yeah.

[144] We should find out.

[145] We need a thermometer to me. It's very important.

[146] Well, that's the thing.

[147] Guys like me, we have thermometers at home because it makes a difference.

[148] Wow.

[149] No, but check this out.

[150] I believe you, man. What I was going to say is the machines, whether it's a pod machine or a capsule machine like you're talking about, or a Mr. Coffee type machine, Black and Decker, whatever, all those kinds of coffee machines.

[151] One of the big challenges with those things is if they don't get hot enough.

[152] If they're brewing coffee at 180 degrees, it's going to taste like crap.

[153] Oh, okay.

[154] So you're cooking it while you're brewing it.

[155] Yeah, exactly.

[156] So the water is hot, you know, some amount of hot.

[157] And if it's the right amount of hot in between 195 and 205, right about 200 degrees, then it makes the coffee taste better.

[158] So it actually literally changes the flavor that's coming out of the beans when it's hot enough to activate it.

[159] Right.

[160] And too hot is bad.

[161] Too hot's bad.

[162] And so here's the deal with coffee.

[163] It's like if you looked at it under a microscope, took a slice of it and then looked at that under a microscope, you'd see all the cellular structure of the coffee.

[164] and it's like a sponge.

[165] And inside the sponge is all the oils and sugars and fats and stuff that make really complicated.

[166] It's, you know, thousands of little different chemicals in there that you need to get out of the sponge.

[167] You need to essentially rinse it out of the coffee to get it into your cup.

[168] And that's what brewing is all about.

[169] Now, if you don't do that well enough, you leave all the good tasting stuff in the coffee, that sponge, the coffee cell walls, you know, and it doesn't get in your cup and your coffee doesn't taste very good.

[170] And plus, you've wasted all the good stuff you wind up throwing it in the trash.

[171] If the opposite thing happens, if you extract too much out of the coffee, if you squeeze that sponge until it's perfectly dry, then the last stuff to get in the trash.

[172] get extracted, tastes kind of bitter and, like, tannic.

[173] It doesn't, it doesn't taste good.

[174] It has a characteristic that we call over -extracted.

[175] And so that bitter tannin comes from a prolonged exposure to hot water?

[176] Either the water being too hot, or you brewing it for too long, or, like, for example, if you boiled coffee like they used to do in the cowboy days, they used to, like, boil coffee over the campfire, that will make the coffee taste bitter and acrid and offlance because it's over -extractive.

[177] And that over -extraction is what creates tannins?

[178] Right.

[179] Well, not tannins specifically, but that tannic sort of flavor, it makes a stringency flavor taste in your mouth.

[180] And that bitterness is from the heat itself?

[181] Well, it's from over -extracting.

[182] It's extracting bad -tasting stuff out of the coffee.

[183] So it extracts all the good tasting stuff, but then there's an additional extraction.

[184] Exactly, of bad -tasting stuff, too.

[185] That's fascinating.

[186] Yeah.

[187] So you want to get the stuff that's like loose.

[188] There's like a ripe fruit almost.

[189] It's like right in the middle.

[190] It's this sweet spot.

[191] And so this organization that I work for called the Specialty Coffee Association, we, in the 1950s they started to do some science about this and how to brew coffee properly and get the coffee to where it tasted best to the most people.

[192] And they had thousands of people tasting different coffees, you know, and they determined what the perfect extraction of a cup of coffee was to.

[193] most people in the in the world and um and then we then they designed uh amount of extraction so i'm going to get technical on you okay so i already told you 195 to 205 is the right temperature the extraction that you want to get is between 18 and 22 percent extraction now this is coffee geek stuff that nobody wants to hear but this is the kind of stuff that we talk to each other about.

[194] Wow.

[195] And so good, if you have a favorite coffee place where the baristas are like really good and they make the coffee taste really good, chances are they know about that extraction window.

[196] And they're trying to get the coffee within that extraction window so it tastes great.

[197] If you exceed 22%, and something closer to 30 % of the coffee is actually extractable, you could get 30 % of the material out of the coffee if you want it.

[198] If you totally squeezed the sponge dry, but 18 to 22 % is where it tastes good.

[199] Wow, that's crazy.

[200] It is.

[201] Now, you jumped at the chance to pour this coffee and to brew this coffee or so.

[202] You didn't want us fucking it up.

[203] Well, yeah.

[204] Well, it's true, with good reason.

[205] Neither Jamie nor I know what the fuck we're doing.

[206] He seems like he knows what he's talking about.

[207] I doubt it.

[208] Trust me. He learned everything from me. We know a little bit, you know.

[209] But when it comes to these sort of things like times of extraction and temperature, does it vary depending on what kind of coffee you have?

[210] Like, this is an Ethiopian coffee.

[211] Would you have a different if it was a Jamaican?

[212] Yep.

[213] It absolutely does.

[214] And so when coffee pros sort of start to work with a coffee, we'll experiment with different temperatures, different kinds of extraction, different coarseness of grind to try to.

[215] to try to get it right.

[216] Find the sweet spot.

[217] Yeah, we call it dialing it in.

[218] So if we're like, if, if a, if you're with a group of coffee people and there's a new coffee, you'll ask somebody, did you dial it in?

[219] And that means, that means did you get it tasting the way it should be tasting?

[220] Wow.

[221] And so what are the variables?

[222] Like, what, like, how much is the spectrum, the variance between, say, what's like an extreme, give an extreme on each end?

[223] Of what?

[224] Of, like, brew times and temperatures and what's the difference?

[225] Okay.

[226] So every, there's a, first of all, there's a lot of different ways.

[227] Have some more of that, too?

[228] Yeah, yeah.

[229] Stuff's delicious.

[230] Thank you.

[231] There's a lot of different, I'm going to have a little more, too.

[232] It does smell really unique.

[233] Yeah, it's really beautiful, clean, clean floral coffee.

[234] Yeah, it's so different.

[235] We usually have this Hawaiian stuff lately.

[236] Yeah.

[237] Hawaii roasters, I'm drinking that.

[238] It's really delicious.

[239] Yeah, this is probably like the polar opposite of that, actually.

[240] Yeah, it's very different.

[241] It smells amazing Yeah That's the thing about this coffee Is it's super fragrant Yeah, in a very unusual way Like it doesn't smell like coffee It's almost like a tea It's almost like tea Exactly right That's I would describe this coffee As being tea -like Yeah, it's really beautiful And so anyway So there's all these different ways To brew coffee So you've got a French press here There's a pour over coffee A drip coffee What do you think of those little vacuum things What are those little vacuum things called?

[242] You might be talking about an arrow press.

[243] Yeah.

[244] Are those good?

[245] Yeah.

[246] Coffee people love them.

[247] Um, and each one of those has a different deal.

[248] So like in this French press, coffee will steep for a while, sort of like tea, and then you press it down and whatever.

[249] And how long do you usually steep it?

[250] Well, four to six minutes is kind of a window.

[251] Really?

[252] Yeah.

[253] Now, how does something like a clover work then?

[254] Because the clover, that crazy computerized coffee machine, that cooked it very quickly.

[255] Very quickly, right?

[256] So the way that that works is it's designed to be able to have fine, finer coffee, you know?

[257] So, um, uh, which changes the, which changes the extraction, right?

[258] Because it's surface area, right?

[259] If you, if you grind it really fine, then it can, it can brew, it can extract really quickly.

[260] So that's why, like, in an espresso machine, it's ground like to a powder.

[261] Pull that video up of the clover machine, just you can see what we're talking about.

[262] Yeah.

[263] For folks who don't know, some genius guys who were coffee, uh, nerds, sorry.

[264] Zander Nossler.

[265] I guess I'm a coffee nerd, too.

[266] I'm just an educator.

[267] But from Stanford University?

[268] Right, yeah.

[269] And they figured out this machine, which costs some upwards of $10 ,000.

[270] Yeah, like $11 ,000.

[271] And I fucking never thought about buying one until I watched someone do it and use it.

[272] And I was like, oh, this might be the fucking coolest thing ever, like for a real coffee dork.

[273] And then I found out that Starbucks bought them all.

[274] They bought them, yeah.

[275] Those sons of bitches.

[276] And I don't even see them.

[277] I never see them in a Starbucks.

[278] Oh, yeah, they have them.

[279] Why don't they sell them?

[280] Well, Starbucks should fucking sell them.

[281] I buy one of these for the office.

[282] They might sell one to you?

[283] If they would, I would be totally willing to buy one of those and just put it in this office.

[284] I'll see if I can make that happen.

[285] Dude, it's going to happen.

[286] Yeah, but I mean, I used to have one in my office.

[287] So this is incredibly variable.

[288] Yeah.

[289] This thing, if you've never seen it, is this really beautifully constructed.

[290] It looks like a giant piston, like a car engine piston.

[291] and you pour coffee in it and the water in it and you stir it with like a little whisk and then dial in the coffee based on the known recipes for that coffee.

[292] Right.

[293] Exactly.

[294] And it was made really fancy.

[295] And here it is.

[296] Yeah.

[297] It could communicate with other machines and you could send the recipe from one machine to another.

[298] Whoa!

[299] That's creepy.

[300] They're going to take over.

[301] Coffee machine is going to take over.

[302] And at the end, it's really unusual.

[303] It leaves this hockey puck of grinds at the top of the machine and then you have this squeegee, which is kind of an elegant way to deal with that little problem of what do you do with the coffee grinds and they come off that piston.

[304] But it comes up like a cheeseburger.

[305] It's so weird looking.

[306] And you see it here.

[307] Coffee burger.

[308] Is that what you call it?

[309] And then you slide it in with this little gas station wind chill washer squeegee thing.

[310] Yep.

[311] It's fucking badass.

[312] Yeah.

[313] And so on the...

[314] So the reason that can happen so quickly is because you can use fine coffee, because it's got that hydraulic piston that sort of pushes it up, that's incredibly strong.

[315] It's got this metal filter that the coffee grounds kind of sit on top of.

[316] And so it's a quasi -pressurized situation.

[317] Somewhere in the same realm as the airpress you're talking about.

[318] Something similar.

[319] And by the way, the air press is essentially a home, you know, $50 version of that.

[320] And it's just as good?

[321] And yeah.

[322] All right, fuck the Clover then.

[323] Jesus Christ.

[324] We just saved ourselves 11 grand or whatever it is.

[325] 11 grand is.

[326] That was really designed for like a coffee service environment.

[327] Seems so badass though, man. I'm a big fan of that kind of technology.

[328] The fact that they, I want to support them.

[329] The fact that they were willing to go out and invest the money to make something like that and design it.

[330] Have you seen the steam punk yet?

[331] Okay, there's all these great coffee machines out there.

[332] Oh, pull that up.

[333] Pull that up.

[334] And this is a, and this is a, recently designed machine and it's got it's like these glass tubes and bubbles and you know all this crazy shit you're gonna love it and what is the benefit of that machine it's just another it actually works on a very similar principle to all these things but they're all coffee machines are designed to make it easier to do what I said before the yeah that's it that's the steampunk so that's that all each of those chambers yeah each of those chambers brew coffee whoa and now interestingly you might it's got a computer screen on it yeah it's yeah and that computer screen is to dial in all these all these variables wow you know so recently what's better that of the clover too much pressure yeah that's an answer question that's like asking me what my favorite child is.

[335] Oh, okay.

[336] I'm sorry.

[337] I can't play favorites.

[338] No, but it's right up there with the Clover?

[339] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[340] How much is that bad?

[341] That thing.

[342] That's a good question.

[343] I don't know the answer to that.

[344] I would guess in the same sort of range.

[345] But, and all of these things.

[346] Now, I'm going to tell you something else, which is these machines, all they do is make it easier to brew coffee like this.

[347] So you've got some pretty sophisticated equipment in your kitchen.

[348] And this is all what he's doing right here?

[349] this is the right stuff?

[350] Wow, this is wild, man. This makes me feel like a scientist, though.

[351] Yeah, I'd like to have that.

[352] It's kind of laboratory stuff.

[353] Yeah, it's very mad scientist.

[354] Right.

[355] And so the water's boiling in one of them, and then the coffee's in the other one.

[356] Is that what's going on here?

[357] Right.

[358] Well, the one in the middle is kind of getting ready.

[359] Yeah, I see.

[360] He's going to dump some coffee in there.

[361] In the one on the right, it's already extracting the coffee, and these little pistons are there to sort of be the filters of the coffee.

[362] It's a complicated machine.

[363] Yeah, I would say so.

[364] A couple weeks ago, here in Los Angeles, there was a battle between a guy called Nick Cho.

[365] Nick Cho is the guy who he's one of the owners of this coffee company who roasted this coffee we're drinking.

[366] And then the inventor of that machine, the steampunk, went head to head and had like a man versus machine kind of thing.

[367] And Nick was just using very simple little brewer that he poured the water on, just totally manual.

[368] And then the other guy was manning the steampunk.

[369] And they were like having this head -to -head where they each had to brew six different coffees for these three judges and they couldn't see what they were drinking, all this stuff.

[370] And now the – so the result was that the steampunk machine won by a hair.

[371] It was essentially a tie.

[372] And the point is that you can make coffee delicious by being really good at mastering the variables, knowing what grind looks right, knowing how hot the water is, et cetera.

[373] Or you can entrust that stuff to a machine.

[374] And that's what machines do.

[375] They just get the water right every time.

[376] They get the, what we call the turbulence, like how much it gets stirred right every time.

[377] If you can replicate something very precisely again and again and again, the coffee is going to be really good.

[378] I get a sense, though, that you're a purist and that you prefer to use manual equipment, almost like if you drove a car, you would want a manual gearbox.

[379] Are you that guy?

[380] I am that guy.

[381] Well, I told somebody was interviewing me for something a while ago, and I told them I don't own a coffee machine in my house, and I don't.

[382] That I have essentially the same setup that you have, a water boiler that boils the...

[383] water for me, a good grinder.

[384] I know she has a good grinder in there.

[385] Um, and, uh, some home style pouring, you know, I use a basically very cheap, $30 pour over there.

[386] French press.

[387] Do you have a French press?

[388] Yeah, I have a French press.

[389] I usually use paper filter, though, just because I prefer the flavor.

[390] Do you really?

[391] Yeah.

[392] Okay, that's an interesting thing to bring up, because, um, one one of the things that I'd like about, uh, French press is when you get that, that sort of bubbly surface.

[393] Yeah.

[394] And then when you pour it into a mug, you get kind of like a little foam on it.

[395] I like that.

[396] Yeah, yeah.

[397] Now, do you still get that when you go through a paper filter?

[398] No, that's exactly what it takes out.

[399] But that seems like that's a good thing.

[400] It's good thing to you, and that's great.

[401] So you know what you like.

[402] Oh, so you don't like it.

[403] Flavor -wise.

[404] You know this, okay, so we're tasting it now.

[405] Can you taste in your mouth how you feel like there is, you can still taste the coffee?

[406] A little bit, yeah.

[407] And it's coating your mouth sort of like as if you just drank a glass of milk or something.

[408] Mm -hmm.

[409] Okay.

[410] So that's called body or aftertaste and to aftertaste.

[411] Those are technical coffee tasting terms.

[412] And so body is the feeling, the texture of the coffee in your mouth, and aftertaste is the flavor of the coffee that remains in your mouth once you're gone.

[413] Once it's gone.

[414] And aftertaste, especially, is really important because you drink coffee in the morning, you're driving to work, you still have that flavor of coffee in your mouth.

[415] If that's good, then that's great.

[416] Then you get an extra 20 minutes out of your cup of coffee.

[417] It's a bonus.

[418] If it's bad, If it's a bad flavor and you feel like you need a mint, then that's like a bad aftertaste.

[419] Right.

[420] And so you're used to drinking good coffee.

[421] You like that feeling in your mouth.

[422] You like that flavor in your mouth.

[423] You like aftertaste.

[424] That's good.

[425] You're brewing coffee the right way.

[426] For me, I just tend to want to move on to the next flavor, whatever it is, whether it's more coffee.

[427] Oh, you're such a coffee geek out with a bunch of different flavors in your mouth all day.

[428] Wow.

[429] You're taking it to a new level.

[430] You went with a paper filter just to remove aftertaste so you could move on to the next flavor.

[431] Couldn't you, like, rinse it out with some seltzer water or something like that?

[432] People do that, yeah.

[433] Maybe eat some ginger like you do with sushi.

[434] Yeah.

[435] Would that work?

[436] Yeah, it would.

[437] Pallet cleanser?

[438] It would.

[439] You could do palat cleanser.

[440] Do you have to brush your tongue or anything like that in between?

[441] People do.

[442] There are people that scrape their tongues, man. I don't do any of that mess.

[443] That's the dark end of the pool.

[444] That's people where you can't see the bottom.

[445] Yeah.

[446] Your coffee geeking out in the most hardcore way ever.

[447] Yeah.

[448] So this is a very delicious coffee, and one of the things that I notice is that you serve it completely black.

[449] Yeah.

[450] You don't fuck around with coffee fillers or sugars.

[451] I don't, but I mean, generally, we coffee people don't judge people that do that.

[452] Everybody's always apologizing to me. I appreciate that.

[453] That's very sweet.

[454] Do you put stuff in your coffee?

[455] Yeah, usually.

[456] Yeah.

[457] Usually we, well, this is what I wanted you to try this.

[458] This is coffee mixed with grass -fed butter and MCT oil.

[459] Okay.

[460] We found about this from...

[461] Can we get it from here?

[462] Yeah, yeah.

[463] This is Hawaii Roasters, right?

[464] Is this Hawaii Roasters?

[465] Rusty's Hawaiian.

[466] It might be said Rusty's.

[467] Rusty's Hawaiian.

[468] And so I found out about this from this dude, Dave Asprey.

[469] He calls it Bulletproof Coffee.

[470] And apparently, a guy named Rob Wolf, he was the first guy to figure it out.

[471] And what it is is coffee mixed with grass -fed butter and MCT oil, and then it's blended.

[472] And the idea being that blending it all up like that has...

[473] You get all the healthy fats mixed him with...

[474] the caffeine.

[475] What is it sort of a medium chain triglyceride oil.

[476] It's like palm oils and mostly coconut oils.

[477] You take the they spin in a centrifuge and extract it.

[478] I don't know the exact process but it's essentially healthy fats.

[479] Yeah.

[480] And then it's all mixed with this.

[481] And the benefit of it is that because it's all connected to the fats, you get sort of a slow burn, a slow release.

[482] I get the impression from you though that you're fucking hopped up on coffee all day and a bunch of different kinds.

[483] You don't need no slow release.

[484] You're just riding that boat right into the rocks.

[485] It's interesting.

[486] There was something you said earlier.

[487] Like, as we were getting started, you were talking about, oh, you were talking about the bars at the top of the show.

[488] The meat bar or something like that?

[489] Yeah, yeah, the warrior bar.

[490] Right, okay.

[491] The buffalo and cranberry bar.

[492] So there's a story in coffee, and we don't know if it's true or not, but this is the legend, is that in ancient Ethiopia, that Ethiopian warriors would take the fruits of the coffee.

[493] So coffee grows like a fruit.

[494] It's got, you may have seen pictures.

[495] It looks like a cherry.

[496] Yeah, I have.

[497] And the two beans are like flat up against each other, like the pits of the cherry.

[498] But around that is like a fruit layer, like a sweet fruit layer.

[499] The fruit tastes sort of like, it's kind of slimy, but it tastes like a mix of watermelon and jasmine.

[500] And then there's kind of a tough leathery skin outside.

[501] And the legend says that the Ethiopians would take that fruit.

[502] and make a ball with animal fat.

[503] And some stories say butter, and other stories say like cow fat.

[504] And they would make balls out of them and put them in their packs.

[505] And then just before a battle, these warriors would eat this like power bar thing.

[506] And it was like fat from the animal fat to give you energy and kind of, and then the sugar from the coffee fruit to give that blast of energy and then the caffeine together.

[507] Now, some people say that this is like an invented story.

[508] Other people say that, yeah, no, this is what the ancient Ethiopians actually did before fighting a battle.

[509] What is known is that the ancient Ethiopians were known as especially intense warriors.

[510] How come nobody has recreated this?

[511] We need an on -it coffee ball.

[512] We need to make that right away.

[513] That seems like something we need to try.

[514] Well, when you said coffee and butter, that's what I thought of, is that kind of thing, these coffee balls with butter.

[515] Maybe that's what they're trying to kind of recreate here.

[516] I don't know.

[517] Well, this is apparently the original, people have been putting ghee.

[518] You know what ghee is?

[519] They've been putting that in coffee for a long time.

[520] But there was also like a yak tea that the Himalayans used, Tibetans used, that was mixed with this yak -but.

[521] butter and tea to make like this creamy sort of a concoction I like what I like about the mixing it with the butter in the MCTO is that it gives you like a long lasting like effect of the caffeine your body has to break down all those fats and sort of blended and connected with the caffeine you don't get it as a big burst like I drank this stuff is I haven't drinking black coffee in quite a while right and with with nothing attached to it it's just like woo it just goes right into your system and you could you could feel yourself like pepping up how do you avoid heart attacks?

[522] interesting uh i a i don't you don't worry about i just keep drinking the coffee i'm just kidding obviously yeah but you do get a rush from this this is some strong caffeine coffee this is some strong stuff yeah i mean i guess i guess i don't in a good way i'm not criticizing no no i know and it's really uniquely delicious yeah um i'm i'm kind of shocked um my favorite coffee lately is this stuff called rusty's hawaiian i've been drinking this a lot lately i know rusty's yeah oh god it's so good yeah god that stuff is good i just something i really love about coffee from the big island and I don't know what it is but I had first tried Hawaiian was Hawaiian Roasters is the Red Bag as somebody told me about it like dude you got to try Hawaiian coffee and so I got to hold this stuff a while back and it's my all -time favorite coffee just has this like really sort of a a dark rich taste to it very very different from this stuff this Ethiopian stuff yeah so if coffee's a different deal if coffee started there it started anything Ethiopia?

[523] Now, did people take the plants and plant them in other places?

[524] Is that what happened?

[525] Yeah, so what happened was, so the Ethiopians were the first ones to sort of discover coffee.

[526] This is what we have here, which we usually drink.

[527] That's my favorite, the one in the red bag.

[528] Yeah, Rusties.

[529] What is it called?

[530] It has a name, though.

[531] It's like...

[532] It says, here it says Mocha Peaberry from Maui.

[533] Yeah, that's like a 94 on there.

[534] Grated coffee?

[535] Yeah, okay.

[536] So good, man. Yeah.

[537] But this is part of the story.

[538] I can tell you, I can, you were asking about coffee.

[539] coming from Ethiopia, et cetera?

[540] Mm -hmm.

[541] Okay, so, yeah.

[542] Okay, this is cool.

[543] They're really tiny, really tiny.

[544] Yeah.

[545] And so what happened was it's from the forests of Ethiopia.

[546] On either side of what's called the Rift Valley, it's where the human species evolved.

[547] It's where we evolved over there.

[548] And coffee evolved in the same place, which is crazy to begin with.

[549] Yeah.

[550] And the Ethiopians consumed it somehow.

[551] But then somehow, probably by the people on the other side of the Red Sea in what's now Yemen, which was then called Arabia Felix.

[552] This is like in about 1 ,100.

[553] They said, wait a second.

[554] They got some, some of the Ethiopian slaves brought some coffee seeds over there.

[555] and they started planting coffee in what's now Yemen.

[556] And they started growing it, and it turned into a big deal.

[557] And they were the first ones that actually exported it out of the area.

[558] So, and the biggest, the port, the main port at that time in Yemen was called Moka.

[559] So you've heard, you know, of a cafe Moka.

[560] Yeah.

[561] This coffee is called Moka.

[562] Moka Java.

[563] Yeah, Moka Java, all that stuff.

[564] That's all a reference to this one port in Jolla.

[565] Yemen.

[566] Wow.

[567] And it's still there.

[568] It's called Al -Mucka.

[569] Wow.

[570] And I thought mocha had something to do with chocolate.

[571] Chocolate, yeah.

[572] We, we, we, in the, now, in Europe and the States, yeah, we kind of, well, it's that people started adding chocolate to coffee that wasn't from there to try to make it taste like it was from there.

[573] Really?

[574] So it had a natural chocolate -y taste to it?

[575] Can you still get coffee from there?

[576] It's very hard because it's Yemen, you know?

[577] It's a creepy spot.

[578] Yeah, it's a difficult place to do business with.

[579] We need to make friends with Prince Nasim Hamad.

[580] Do you remember that guy?

[581] No. He was a boxer from Yemen.

[582] Oh, yeah.

[583] Bad ass dude.

[584] He did a lot of wild shit.

[585] Came in on a magic carpet.

[586] Oh, crazy.

[587] He was to dance around the ring.

[588] Yemen's an amazing place.

[589] I mean, I've never been there, but I've seen lots of pictures.

[590] I've known lots of Yemeni people.

[591] But it's just politically a little dangerous, volatile spot.

[592] That's unfortunate.

[593] That sounds like it's going to some unique coffee out of there.

[594] But so anyway, so they brought, when they brought coffee from Ethiopia to Yemen, they brought only a few plants.

[595] and then they used those to be the parents of all the coffee in Yemen.

[596] And they were the ones that exported it anyway.

[597] Then, but then, this is in history, they were growing coffee, they were exporting it.

[598] Other people said, wait a second, we want in on this coffee deal because you're making money selling coffee.

[599] But they had a penalty of death if you got seeds, if you took seeds out of Yemen at that time.

[600] If you got caught exporting fertile coffee seeds, you could be put.

[601] to death.

[602] It was that valuable.

[603] That valuable.

[604] That's incredible.

[605] And this is at a time where when like the English and the Dutch were fighting over the Dutch East Indies as the Spice Islands, you know, people, all these, everybody was trying to get some colonies going to export these cash crops.

[606] And they saw coffee as a potential cash crop.

[607] Some Dutch spies successfully got some coffee out of Yemen.

[608] And they planted it on, and they had just won the war with the English over the Dutch East Indies.

[609] And they planted the coffee that that they stole from Yemen in what's now Indonesia on the island of Java.

[610] Wow.

[611] And they turned, they did great.

[612] They planted all these farms.

[613] They were producing coffee, and that's why we still call coffee Java.

[614] Wow.

[615] Yeah.

[616] So in Moka Java.

[617] Moka Java's, and, you know, 150 years ago, those were the two places that made most of the coffee in the world.

[618] The port of Moka in Yemen and the island of Java in the Dutch East Indies.

[619] Wow.

[620] And Ethiopia back then, like, if that's where it all started from...

[621] They weren't exporting anything then.

[622] They were just like letting it grow?

[623] They were just drinking it themselves.

[624] Wow.

[625] Yeah.

[626] And they didn't build an export market.

[627] Wow.

[628] So then it gets weirder.

[629] You ready?

[630] Yeah.

[631] So at one point, the Dutch and the French signed a treaty.

[632] Like a, you know, some sort of treaty.

[633] and as a gift the Dutch gave one coffee tree to the French one coffee tree and the French in like in France they built a hot house like a greenhouse just to hold this plant and it was the first greenhouse in Europe what the first greenhouse in Europe was for a coffee plant right and they planted other stuff there too but this coffee plant was like really special and and they used cuttings from that plant to plant, they wanted to plant some stuff in the West Indies in the Caribbean.

[634] They wanted to plant some coffee the French did for their colonies.

[635] And so this one guy named Gabriel de Clue, he was responsible for bringing the coffee from France to Martinique.

[636] But, so he brought this one plant and he had it in a glass box, but they ran out of wind on the journey and so they were stuck in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

[637] Gabriel de Clue was, sharing his water ration with this plant to keep it alive.

[638] Oh, my God.

[639] He managed to keep it alive, planted it, and that one plant was the parent of most the coffee in Central America, South America, et cetera.

[640] Holy shit.

[641] Yeah.

[642] So now, there's a scientific impact to this because all the genetic diversity that was in Ethiopia, all the thousands of different coffee varieties that were in Ethiopia, imagine how that got narrowed down from getting brought from Ethiopia, T .M. in the first place.

[643] Then whatever plants those Dutch spies stole to put the coffee in Java, then that one plant that went to the new world, that went to France first and then to the new world.

[644] They call it a genetic bottleneck.

[645] So all the coffee outside of Ethiopia is kind of siblings to one another.

[646] That's incredible.

[647] And that's a problem for us because if there's a disease that that one genetic variety of coffee is susceptible to, it can wipe out the whole coffee deal.

[648] It's so incredible that one particular area of the world was the only place where this stuff was growing.

[649] And now it's considered to be a completely worldwide beverage.

[650] Yeah.

[651] Oh, yeah.

[652] And the Ethiopians are kind of, they're kind of pissed off about that.

[653] Seriously, if you go and you talk to them and they're like, because, you know, everybody says they've identified coffee with Columbia.

[654] Right, yeah.

[655] You know, Juan Valdez or whatever.

[656] Right, fucking Juan, man. And they hate Juan Valdez in Ethiopia.

[657] They're like, that's our thing.

[658] That's our thing that the world is getting rich on.

[659] So, but that's right.

[660] I mean, that's true.

[661] If you go to Ethiopia, the different kinds of flavors that you can get in coffee from Ethiopia is crazy compared to anywhere else.

[662] Really?

[663] I was saying before.

[664] So it was a genetic diversity issue.

[665] Genetic diversity thing.

[666] Each village in Ethiopia has their own variety of coffee that they grow traditionally.

[667] Wow.

[668] And how many different varieties are there?

[669] Well, that's a good question.

[670] We don't know completely.

[671] They're still doing, there's scientists that are out in Ethiopia right now trying to count all the different coffee varieties.

[672] And the estimation is that there are somewhere between 3 ,000 and 5 ,000 different varieties of coffee growing wild in Ethiopia.

[673] And outside of Ethiopia, there's like 30.

[674] Wow.

[675] Yeah.

[676] Wow.

[677] Yeah.

[678] It's crazy.

[679] That's nuts.

[680] So every legit coffee connoisseur is like a big fan of Ethiopia.

[681] Do you have like an Ethiopia t -shirt that you wear?

[682] Yeah.

[683] Oh, that's the spot.

[684] It's like Brazilian jiu -jitsu.

[685] Brazil is the spot, right?

[686] Right.

[687] It's the origin, center of origin.

[688] Right.

[689] If you want to get into Taekwendo, you go to Korea.

[690] Right.

[691] Yeah.

[692] Wow.

[693] That's amazing, man. So this particular blend that we have, is from Ethiopia, and what are the variables in Ethiopian coffees?

[694] Like, this is, sorry, say the name again, how do you say it again?

[695] Yerghev.

[696] Yerghev.

[697] And this Yergishev is a fruity, sort of floral one.

[698] Right.

[699] But I would assume that with thousands of different varieties, you get a broad spectrum of different flavors.

[700] Right.

[701] So in, so just north of Yurgishev is kind of a larger area.

[702] and actually Yergashv is within an area called Sadama is the name of the region, and we call coffees from there, Saddamos.

[703] So, Saddamos are similar to Yurgishev, but they're not as floral.

[704] They tend to be sweeter.

[705] They taste sort of like honey to me. So, yeah, they have a honey -like characteristic.

[706] Like, what's a good name for one if someone wants to try one of those?

[707] Sadamo.

[708] Any...

[709] Any Saddamo, any...

[710] S -I -D -A -M -O.

[711] So any Sadamo, no particular name is necessary.

[712] Yeah, yeah, there's different ones.

[713] The names that you get besides Sadamo will often be, or even Yerga Chef, will often be the specific name of a washing station where they wash the coffee itself.

[714] And so you can get geeky about that.

[715] But Sadamo is in what way?

[716] Well, people develop favorite washing stations.

[717] Yeah, yeah.

[718] And what's the variables in the washing process changes the way the flavor is?

[719] Yeah.

[720] So, yeah.

[721] And then I noticed, I listened to a podcast you did recently that had a nutritionist, and you were talking about washing, washed coffee being important.

[722] Yes.

[723] And I thought, I could explain that process to you if you want me to.

[724] Yes, please.

[725] Okay.

[726] So it's all about how the, I told you that coffee beans are like two seeds inside of a cherry.

[727] Right.

[728] And you got to get that fruit off.

[729] Because if you don't get the fruit off, it can mold and spoil and taste yucky.

[730] So the whole challenge with coffee is to do something with that fruit layer before it spoils.

[731] Okay.

[732] And because like any fruit, it can spoil.

[733] So any kind of fruit, you pick it and then...

[734] You either do...

[735] So what the ancient Ethiopians did is they just picked it and they set it on the ground or on a mat to dry.

[736] And the coffee would sort of turn in, shrivel up, turn into a raisin.

[737] And once it was totally dry, they'd pound it in a mortar and pestle.

[738] and the seeds it would separate from the dried up husk, and then you could roast the seeds and drink the coffee.

[739] So that was the original method of doing coffee.

[740] But when they moved coffee from Ethiopia, which is very warm and dry, and they could grow it in Indonesia and in Central America, and it would grow fine, but when they tried to dry it, it was tougher because there's more rain there.

[741] It's more humid, and the coffee would mold.

[742] and get musty and taste crappy.

[743] So in Costa Rica, they invented a different thing.

[744] And what they did was they ran it through a machine that would strip off the leathery skin.

[745] Musk.

[746] Yeah.

[747] Well, the leathery skin.

[748] But it would leave this slimy fruit, you know, and it's sort of like, you know, if you eat a peach and some of the...

[749] Right.

[750] It sticks to the seed.

[751] And that's exactly what happens to coffee.

[752] The sticky, fruity stuff is sticking to the seed.

[753] and you got to get it off.

[754] So what they did was they let it ferment for about a day.

[755] And if you let that stuff ferment in a bucket or a whatever, a tub, for about a day, then it loosens itself through magic.

[756] It's like amazing.

[757] It's bacterial action and yeast and stuff, act on that stuff to dissolve it.

[758] And then you can wash it away with water.

[759] It just rinses right off.

[760] That's wet processing.

[761] That's wet processing.

[762] And then once that sticky, slimy, sugary stuff is rinsed away, then it's very easy to dry the coffee in the sun.

[763] It dries in a few days and then you can husk it and send it for roasting.

[764] So there's a difference between drying it out and then roasting.

[765] It must be dried out first, and then it must be roasted later.

[766] Right.

[767] So there's, right.

[768] So, and those two processes, those two major processes, we call them either dry processing and wet processing or the natural method and the washed method.

[769] So washed and wet processing are the same thing.

[770] And dried and natural is the same thing.

[771] So in a certain way, changing climates and moving coffee plants to other geographic locations presented a lot of pretty unique challenges.

[772] Absolutely.

[773] For coffee.

[774] Which they were doing in the 19th century.

[775] Seems so different than anything else, which is also a fruit that you would grow up.

[776] You would just take it when it's ripe and you eat it when it's Right.

[777] Yeah.

[778] But this seems like a really complicated thing that they had to figure out.

[779] Well, it's because we're eating the seeds, too.

[780] I mean, unlike most fruits, most fruits aren't cultivated for their seeds.

[781] Is there, um, outside of the seed, isn't the extract, like the outside doesn't have some sort of nutritional benefit?

[782] Sure.

[783] Well, it's, I mean, it's, it's a fruit.

[784] It's got sugar and it's got...

[785] What does it taste like?

[786] It tastes like, um, uh, I always say it's like a mixture of, of watermelon and, uh, Jasmine.

[787] Really?

[788] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[789] It sounds delicious.

[790] Oh, it's delicious.

[791] It's delicious.

[792] It's totally delicious.

[793] How come you can't just buy coffee fruit?

[794] Well, you can.

[795] The problem is that if they, coffee doesn't really grow around here.

[796] Right.

[797] So by the time they got it to you, it would be spoiled.

[798] What do they do, here's a few things for you, and I should have brought some for you.

[799] They, some places they keep the fruit that they husk off and they dry that too.

[800] And you can make sort of like a beverage out of that by soaking that beverage in water, treating it like tea.

[801] And they do that in Ethiopia and in Yemen.

[802] They call it Hashara in Yemen.

[803] They call it Kishir in, in, I mean, Hashara in Ethiopia, Kishir in Yemen.

[804] And so it's another beverage that comes from coffee.

[805] And it's sweet.

[806] It's got plenty of caffeine.

[807] Really?

[808] Yeah.

[809] Why isn't that more popular?

[810] It seems like that would be more popular.

[811] It's interesting.

[812] You would think that that would be, maybe that's a new thing.

[813] It's kind of, yeah.

[814] How do you say it?

[815] What do you call it again?

[816] Well, a lot of places that sell it here call it Cascada.

[817] C -A -S -C -A -R -A.

[818] That's the Spanish word for it.

[819] Cascada.

[820] Now, is that something that Starbucks could start selling?

[821] They could, yeah.

[822] Why don't they do that?

[823] That's a good question.

[824] What the fuck's wrong with you?

[825] Starbucks?

[826] Get on the ball.

[827] Don't you bitches like money?

[828] But like there's some, there's other coffee companies sell it.

[829] And it's kind of a, yeah, it's kind of an, it's not satisfying in the same way that coffee is.

[830] It's kind of an oddity.

[831] You'll try it.

[832] Yeah, I certainly will.

[833] Yeah, you tell me what you think.

[834] That sounds interesting.

[835] Cascada.

[836] Okay, I got to remember that.

[837] Now, the actual bean itself, is there more caffeine in the fruity outer layer, or is there more caffeine in the fruity outer layer?

[838] Or is, Is there more caffeine in the bean itself?

[839] I don't know the answer to that.

[840] Okay.

[841] But...

[842] Different varies.

[843] There's...

[844] Yeah.

[845] And there's coffee...

[846] That's true.

[847] It varies.

[848] And there's caffeine in all parts of the coffee plant.

[849] Oh, so the leaves, everything.

[850] Yeah, it's there.

[851] What does coffee even look like?

[852] I don't even know what it looks like.

[853] It's about...

[854] Well, it depends on the variety of coffee, but generally they're about, you know, six or eight feet tall.

[855] It's a bush.

[856] Yeah.

[857] All I know about that is now that I'm realizing it, it's fucking Juan Valdez, man. Yeah.

[858] Juan Valdez is the only reason why I know...

[859] They did.

[860] They really got you attached to that burrow and him with his coffee beans.

[861] Yeah, absolutely.

[862] Yeah, how odd.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Now, is there a variation in the caffeine content of beans from one part of the world to the other?

[865] Because I've seen something called, kicking horse.

[866] Is that what's called?

[867] Kicking Horse Coffee, which claims to have an excessive amount of caffeine in it?

[868] Yeah.

[869] Well, I don't know that brand.

[870] But what they might be talking about is there's another species of coffee.

[871] So there's the species that we've been talking about from Ethiopia and all that stuff is called Kaffa Arabica is the name of that species.

[872] Oh, okay.

[873] So there's another species that comes from the western part of Africa.

[874] And it's called kaffaic kanephora.

[875] But we call it Robusta.

[876] Have you ever heard of Robusta?

[877] Yes.

[878] Okay.

[879] So Robusta comes from West Africa.

[880] It doesn't taste as good, generally.

[881] It's sort of, in my experience, it tastes sort of like burnt popcorn.

[882] You know, cheap diner coffee has that burnt popcorn kind of taste to it?

[883] Yes.

[884] That's from the Robusta in it.

[885] Oh.

[886] And they've used...

[887] Burnt popcorn.

[888] Yeah, or rubber.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Star Diner in White Plains, New York.

[891] Yeah, totally.

[892] I used to eat at this fucking place.

[893] Their coffee was just always like burnt popcorn.

[894] I didn't even thought of that.

[895] Right.

[896] But it tasted like shit.

[897] Yeah.

[898] So that's the Robusta in it.

[899] Now, Robusta has a lot more caffeine than Arabica does.

[900] No kidding.

[901] But it also has a bunch of other chemicals that don't taste very.

[902] good.

[903] Oh, so that's why it's got such a jolt to it and it tastes like shit.

[904] So some people, I've seen people talk about high, you know, high caffeine coffee and they're just using robust in it to sort of, to sort of amp up the, the caffeine level.

[905] What is that thing floating around?

[906] That's the scoop.

[907] A scoop I didn't take it up.

[908] Oh, how dare you, Jamie.

[909] We're drinking plastic soup here.

[910] The, but, you know, I mean, obviously caffeine is an important part of, Oh, without it.

[911] Without it, let's be honest, this is a drug.

[912] Without it, the ride wouldn't be nearly as, the line looks to be nearly as long.

[913] It's true.

[914] But after that, once you've satisfied the caffeine, you know, part, you start drinking coffee for what it tastes like.

[915] And so people that are focused on coffee flavor tend to deemphasize the jolt part and emphasize.

[916] the flavor part.

[917] What is the origin?

[918] Why does the plant produce caffeine in the first place?

[919] Like, is, do we know that?

[920] Yeah, it's called an alkaloid is the class of chemical that caffeine is.

[921] And there's, in general, plants seem to, to produce alkaloids to drive away predation?

[922] Yeah, like insects and stuff like that.

[923] Okay, so the insects eat the coffee, they'll have a fucking heart attack.

[924] Yeah.

[925] fall out of the sky.

[926] It's toxic to insects at a micro level.

[927] And animals, a lot of animals as well, right?

[928] Yeah.

[929] From what I understand, that's the reason why dogs don't like chocolate.

[930] Well, you shouldn't feed your dog chocolate.

[931] It's another alkaloid called theobroman.

[932] So theobrombin chocolate has, and it's very similar to caffeine, it'll make you your heart, you know.

[933] And I talked to a veterinarian about this once.

[934] And the problem with dogs is they eat a bunch of chocolate, their heart pounds so fast, they have a heart attack from the, from the, uh, theobromine.

[935] And it's like caffeine.

[936] And, you know, people say that, that, uh, the chocolate has caffeine, that the active thing is actually theobroman, which is this, uh, it's an alkaloid.

[937] It's very similar.

[938] It's a stimulant that works on dogs in a different way that works on humans?

[939] Yeah.

[940] Yeah.

[941] It's, the dogs are more susceptible to it.

[942] That's fascinating because in humans, it actually has some weird, like, representation of love, right?

[943] It gives it very similar.

[944] That's what they say, yeah.

[945] Which kind of makes sense, right?

[946] You give chocolate to people you love?

[947] Yeah.

[948] I mean, that's what they say.

[949] Yeah.

[950] I mean, I myself, if I drink, if I eat too much chocolate, my heart pounds.

[951] I can feel it.

[952] Really?

[953] Much more than that.

[954] Well, you're a hairy dude.

[955] You're probably much more animal -like.

[956] That's, yeah.

[957] There was a recent article that I was reading today online about chocolate, that chocolate is going to be extremely rare in the future because of our over -consumption of chocolate.

[958] We consume so much chocolate.

[959] They can't keep up with the production.

[960] The demand can't keep up with the production.

[961] And they've got a similar project problem that coffee does.

[962] A genetic problem.

[963] A genetic problem.

[964] And the same, okay, so chocolate is indigenous to South America.

[965] Like coffee is indigenous to Africa.

[966] Cacao is from Latin America.

[967] But then it's been spread all over.

[968] over the world, has a narrow genetic base.

[969] I mean, all these tropical crops have these problems.

[970] The other problem is climate change.

[971] You know, as the climate gets warmer, the suitable kind of environment for these very climate, very temperature intolerant plants narrows, diseases spread more easily, et cetera, et cetera.

[972] problem.

[973] That is very interesting.

[974] So you said that coffee can't be grown in the United States?

[975] Well, it can, mainly Hawaii is in the United States.

[976] Right.

[977] In Hawaii, there is also one farm here in California.

[978] Really?

[979] Up in Santa Barbara.

[980] It's not far, you could drive here.

[981] In Santa Barbara?

[982] Yeah.

[983] How's their coffee?

[984] Delicious.

[985] Really?

[986] Yeah, and he, but he only planted this farm a few years ago.

[987] No shit.

[988] Yeah, it's called Goodland Organics.

[989] So he's the only guy in America that's growing coffee in the lower 48?

[990] Yep.

[991] And it's because he's in a very unique kind of microclimate there.

[992] There's actually, if you go to his farm, it can be warmer at night on this farm than it is during the day because of the weird way that the weather works around there.

[993] Santa Barbara's Paradise.

[994] It is.

[995] It's beautiful.

[996] It's an amazing spot.

[997] In this place, you should go to this farm.

[998] I will.

[999] He also grows amazing fruits like these crazy Australian limes called Finger Limes that look like caviar inside.

[1000] Cheramoyas.

[1001] Have you ever heard of Cheramoyas?

[1002] They're very rare tropical fruit.

[1003] No, never heard of that.

[1004] He grows all these insane fruits.

[1005] Wow, what's the name of his place?

[1006] Good Land Organics.

[1007] That's pretty cool that he's the guy that figures out how to grow coffee in California.

[1008] Avocados he has there.

[1009] There's a lot of avocados in Santa Barbara, right?

[1010] So he got this avocado.

[1011] He's a guy from here.

[1012] I think he came from here in L .A. And he got into agriculture, and he bought this farm that was an avocado farm.

[1013] But then he started planting dragon fruit, these finger limes, cheramoyas, all this.

[1014] stuff and he grows coffee there and he's just like a really good fruit grower and he grew this coffee and he he was telling me recently he's I mean this coffee that he grew he's planted the right varieties of coffee including this one the mocha variety that has these little tiny beans he's got that growing there etc. And it's just now coming into fruit one of the interesting things about coffee is you plant a coffee seed you don't start to harvest coffee from between three and seven years after you planted.

[1015] Wow.

[1016] So he's just now starting to reap the rewards of all these years and years of taking care of these plants.

[1017] That is fascinating.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Dude, you should grow coffee.

[1021] You love it so much.

[1022] I love it.

[1023] Why are you not involved in growing it?

[1024] Well, yeah.

[1025] You need to get yourself a spot in Santa Barbara.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] A small patch of land in Santa Barbara and let the party begin.

[1028] I would love it.

[1029] I've always traveled too much to like be at a farm.

[1030] So, I mean, I've spent the last 15 or so years just traveling to coffee farms all over the world, working with coffee farmers to get their quality better and, and kind of learn about all this stuff, because that's kind of a new phenomenon too, is coffee roasting companies that are interacting more directly with farmers and getting the, you know, getting the quality thing really worked out, understanding what makes coffee great, et cetera.

[1031] Most farmers that are growing coffee, are they doing it just for a profit?

[1032] Or are there places where you go and they're real artisans?

[1033] Is there a broad variation?

[1034] It's mostly the first thing because...

[1035] Mostly artisans.

[1036] No, no, no. It's mostly...

[1037] Mostly businesses.

[1038] Yeah, it's mostly...

[1039] Well, it's mostly small farmers struggling to get by.

[1040] Right.

[1041] So, going back to the history, so the Dutch, you know, they planted their thing in Java.

[1042] And they basically enslaved the local population to work on their coffee.

[1043] farms.

[1044] This is in the, you know, in the 18th century.

[1045] Everybody was, all the European powers were trying to get colonies everywhere.

[1046] So, you know, colonies, the Spanish doing their colonies in Central America, the French doing their colonies in West Africa.

[1047] The English were trying to colonize Kenya.

[1048] The, the Dutch were colonized East India.

[1049] And they kind of enslaved the local population to grow coffee.

[1050] Wow.

[1051] And so that was sort of a dark period in world history.

[1052] And unfortunately, coffee was part of that.

[1053] But since then, so then, you know, the Enlightenment happened.

[1054] Democracy started to spread around the world.

[1055] But still many of these countries that were former colonies had poverty problems, like Central America and stuff like that.

[1056] The place that I first started working with coffee farmers was in Nicaragua.

[1057] And in Nicaragua was formerly a colony, you know, and had that problem.

[1058] But then they had the revolution.

[1059] They dissolved a lot of these big farms and gave little parcels of land to a lot of people that used to work on the farm.

[1060] So here you have all these people that used to work on a farm that now have their little tiny farm of their own.

[1061] And that's cool because then they've got, you know, they've got their own business, their farm that's going.

[1062] The problem is it's pretty tough in any country, whether it's the United States or Nicaragua or anywhere, to make a small farm profitable.

[1063] And so in many parts of the world, you've got small farmers that are just trying to get by, you know, and put food on their plates.

[1064] And so one of the great things that coffee, that special coffee companies can do is get engaged with those farmers and try to get the, celebrate the product, get people to pay more for it, because it tastes really delicious, and it becomes a better livelihood for farmers all across the world.

[1065] So your friend in Santa Barbara, what was his name again that owns this place?

[1066] Jay Rusky is his name.

[1067] And what's the name of the place again?

[1068] Good land organics.

[1069] And so he's just a guy who loves coffee and decides I'm going to try to grow some stuff in Santa Barbara.

[1070] He loves growing, he loves agriculture.

[1071] He just loves growing things.

[1072] And he thought it was a challenge to grow coffee, I think.

[1073] I think he loves coffee too, but I think really he loved the fact that it was a challenge.

[1074] He likes these unusual fruits.

[1075] So it kind of takes a person with sort of a deep commitment to make something like this take place.

[1076] Otherwise, it's a pretty significant investment in time and effort before you reap any rewards.

[1077] And there are those people, too, in coffee.

[1078] I mean, even in, you know, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, in Panama, in Brazil.

[1079] I know of, like, amazing farmers in all these places who are, like, focused on, like, making the best imaginable coffee.

[1080] So now, when you work with these people, say if somebody contacts you and say, Peter, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, come down here and help me grow some bitch and coffee.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] What is your process?

[1083] Like, let's say a guy from Hawaii calls you up, who says, I want to grow some coffee.

[1084] I don't know what I'm doing.

[1085] Yeah, well, coffee is kind of an unusual.

[1086] I mean, Hawaii is kind of an unusual situation.

[1087] because the University of Hawaii is involved and they can actually call up the University of Hawaii and get some advice from them.

[1088] They wouldn't need me in Hawaii.

[1089] Okay, so where would they need you?

[1090] South America?

[1091] Yeah, in these places.

[1092] I'm a dude in Peru.

[1093] Right.

[1094] And the first thing we do...

[1095] I've done a lot of work in Peru and Bolivia.

[1096] And not just me. I mean, there's lots of people out there.

[1097] And in fact, the U .S. government through USAID is out there trying to give good support to these guys.

[1098] The first thing you do is you teach them to taste coffee.

[1099] And amazingly, and some of your listeners may have had this experience, I've had this experience.

[1100] You go to wherever, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Peru, or whatever, a place that's famous for its coffee.

[1101] And you go into the hotel and they've got Ness Cafe and the, you know, instant coffee in the restaurant or whatever.

[1102] And it's because in a lot of these places, people don't drink the coffee.

[1103] They grow the coffee, but they don't drink it.

[1104] And it's crazy.

[1105] That's so weird.

[1106] Totally weird.

[1107] How's that happen?

[1108] Because it's more valuable to export.

[1109] Ah, so they don't drink it just because it's not worth it.

[1110] And it's like not part of the culture.

[1111] That's interesting.

[1112] You know, so.

[1113] It's not part of the culture yet it is.

[1114] It is.

[1115] It's part of the agricultural culture.

[1116] Yeah.

[1117] But it's not part of the consumption culture.

[1118] Wow.

[1119] It's weird.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] Ethiopia is the only place in Brazil to some extent, where they drink coffee as much as they, as they, as they, as they export it.

[1122] And Brazil has the same issue, the rest of South America, where they have a very limited genetics.

[1123] And is that the same thing?

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] It's slightly different because Brazil is so much bigger.

[1127] Right.

[1128] But, um, so they're more than one variety from Brazil.

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] Yeah.

[1131] And, in general.

[1132] But, um, and, and all these countries, by the way, are aware of this problem and they're trying to diversify their genetics.

[1133] So do they contact you through the, the, the coffee website?

[1134] Is that how they go to specialty coffee association of, but?

[1135] And so, um, and Yeah.

[1136] So in the, in the, yeah, so in the, about starting in 2000 or so, we, we in our group that we're affiliated with called the Coffee Quality Institute, put, had this program called Coffee Corps.

[1137] It's sort of like the Peace Corps for Coffee People.

[1138] And guys like me would, would, would sign up and volunteer for two weeks to serve in a coffee farming community.

[1139] And if we had a skill we might have marketing skill or or accounting or tasting my skill was tasting so i would go down i would teach a coffee cooperative in el salvador do you speak spanish yes okay how to taste their own coffee and taste it like we do you know look for things like sweetness and flavor and aroma and stuff like that and just that is like extremely powerful because if you're running a coffee farm and you know how to taste it like your buyer is going to taste it, then you can say, all right, this tastes better, I'm going to do this.

[1140] I'm going to grow it this way.

[1141] I'm going to dry it this way.

[1142] I'm going to ferment it this way, et cetera.

[1143] Now, when you say grow it this way, what are the variables involved in changing the flavor of coffee?

[1144] Is it just climate or is it the soil content or is it something you add to the soil, the way you water them?

[1145] What do you do?

[1146] Well, most, the biggest thing is the climate, and a lot of that is determined by altitude.

[1147] So remember, Mrs. Owen, on Folgers, what was the lady?

[1148] I don't know.

[1149] Anyway, on the commercial, she used to say mountain -grown Folgers.

[1150] Oh, that's right.

[1151] Yeah, so, and that's because coffee likes to be at high altitudes.

[1152] So, in general, the higher the altitude the farm is, the better the coffee.

[1153] And then, but a farmer has no control over the altitude of their farm.

[1154] But what they control is how much shade the coffee gets.

[1155] So they plant trees next to the coffee to actually.

[1156] provide some shade for it really so they have coffee and they're like oak trees or some shit yeah yeah usually it's a different they're different they're like latin -american indigenous something that large leaves shady yeah and and and sometimes it's a fruit tree so they can get fruit as well from the yeah avocados jay uses avocados in in uh in sanabarber for this purpose wow okay so he grows his avocado trees and then sandwiches them in between yeah exactly so so the deal is The coffee, now a shaded coffee, so coffee evolved under other trees.

[1157] It's called an understory shrub.

[1158] It naturally likes to be protected by other trees.

[1159] However, if you take it out and put it in the full sun, it'll be more productive.

[1160] It'll produce a lot more coffee, but in general that coffee won't be as good.

[1161] So a farmer has to like figure out the benefit, you know, if you puts it in a shade, the coffee will taste better, but it won't be as productive.

[1162] So he has to sort of balance.

[1163] And that's what happens in coffee.

[1164] All the time, you know, it's like the better you make it taste, the less there is of it kind of thing.

[1165] And so a farmer is always trying to make that balancing act between having his farm be more productive versus having the quality be higher.

[1166] What is the ultimate taste expression?

[1167] What is the move to get, forget about no money involved, no financial reward.

[1168] You're only trying to achieve the greatest taste ever.

[1169] What's the way to do that?

[1170] Start with a variety of coffee that's known for being really good tasting.

[1171] So there's these different varieties of coffee that we talked about.

[1172] Some of them taste really good.

[1173] Some of them maybe are more disease resistant and don't taste as good because of that.

[1174] So you choose a good variety to start with.

[1175] The disease resistant coffees don't taste as good as the, that's interesting.

[1176] And what diseases specifically are they getting?

[1177] There's a disease, and you may have heard about it in the next.

[1178] news it's actually a big deal right now it's called coffee rust and it's a fungal disease it makes the coffee leaves get this powder on them that looks exactly like rust makes all the leaves fall off in the coffee plant so is it similar to like what's going like like um what is that disease that was uh hitting oh no that's the bark beetle i was thinking of a bug but it's like that in that in that uh you know these these crops can be susceptible particularly if there's a narrow genetic like what you're talking about.

[1179] I see.

[1180] And what specific, where's this coffee rust?

[1181] Like, what is the, is it all over the world or is it?

[1182] Yeah, it's all over the world, except it doesn't occur really in, in Ethiopia.

[1183] So there's some sort of natural control happening in Ethiopia.

[1184] That seems to be the motherland.

[1185] Is that like, so if you're a real coffee dork, you're going, all due respect.

[1186] Yeah, yeah.

[1187] I mean that in a good way.

[1188] I get it.

[1189] If you're a real coffee, Kanazua, Ethiopia is the spot.

[1190] That's what you want.

[1191] to get your coffee.

[1192] That's for the strongest flavors, the widest variety of flavor, and because it's the OG.

[1193] I think so, you know.

[1194] But then, you know, not to qualify that too much, I mean, there's amazing coffees from Central America.

[1195] Columbia is some of the most incredible coffees.

[1196] And there's crazy diversity.

[1197] And Hawaii, like I said, I really enjoy coffee from Hawaii.

[1198] It just seems to me to have a very different taste.

[1199] It does.

[1200] Well, what causes that?

[1201] Is it the volcanic ground?

[1202] It can be.

[1203] And then coffees within Hawaii, too, can taste very different.

[1204] Right.

[1205] There's a...

[1206] This is a Maui coffee.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] I usually like the Kona coffees.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] Kona is the most well -known area.

[1211] It's on the big island, you know.

[1212] And then it's got altitude.

[1213] You can...

[1214] Once you go up that...

[1215] And that's the biggest challenge in Hawaii.

[1216] I used to know some people that managed a coffee farm in Molokai, which is a smaller island, not as much altitude.

[1217] The coffee wasn't as good.

[1218] So...

[1219] That's interesting.

[1220] Yeah, there's a place in Hawaii and on the big island called Mountain Thunder.

[1221] Have you ever heard of this thing?

[1222] No. Great, great coffee from the Big Island.

[1223] Mountain Thunder from the Big Island.

[1224] Really delicious.

[1225] I'll get in there.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] But anyway, but in general, coffee's from islands like Hawaii, Jamaica, places like this.

[1228] They've got kind of a unique characteristic.

[1229] You might like coffee from Indonesia or from Papua New Guinea.

[1230] Damn, this stuff has four stars.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.

[1233] You know, I really enjoy coffee, but until this conversation, I was a fool.

[1234] Yeah, well, you know, I mean.

[1235] I was an ignorant fool.

[1236] I knew nothing.

[1237] I relied on too many unscrupulous people to fill in my head with useless information.

[1238] This is what we do in, you know, coffee people, this is what we do.

[1239] We get dialed into what people like.

[1240] Right.

[1241] And, you know, show them other options if they want.

[1242] So to continue what I was asking you before, say if someone contacted you from say somewhere in South America, and they wanted you to go over there and, hey, we need to fix our flavor profile.

[1243] What would you do besides planting trees?

[1244] So step one is start tasting the coffee themselves.

[1245] Okay.

[1246] And how can you change that taste?

[1247] Well, okay, so you can either shade the coffee or not.

[1248] You can, you can, one easy way that a farmer can change the quality of their coffee is how ripe it gets.

[1249] So as coffee gets riper, it gets sweeter, obviously.

[1250] But you don't want it to be too sweet or else it'll get, like, overly sweet and also it'll get this kind of rotten character.

[1251] So figuring out, dialing in, there was a farmer I worked with in El Salvador who, like, got super focused on how ripe she was going to pick her coffee.

[1252] And she wound up figuring out, this is geeky and amazing, is that if she let the coffee get, half of the coffee get ripe to where it was the color of blood, or I'm sorry, of wine, right, like burgundy kind of color.

[1253] And then half of the coffee cherries get to where they were the color of blood, like bright red, like this.

[1254] And blended those together, it was the perfect flavor.

[1255] Wow, what a dork.

[1256] And she dialed in.

[1257] But she's famous.

[1258] Like they did a, her name's Aida Baitier.

[1259] They did a piece on her in the New Yorker a couple of years ago because she's become the rock star of in the coffee world.

[1260] That's so fascinating to me. like I said when you sat down I love people that are really into shit when someone gets really into something as you are in a coffee it's very infectious like you know I want to like to start trying all these different flavors but I don't want to be hopped up out of my fucking mind on caffeine all day well you don't have to drink that much either I mean it's like you know I've already drank five cups of this shit you can space it out a little bit but it's really good but if you go to a coffee shop all the time they can blow your mind with a different flavor like all the time now how do you feel about a place like a chain, like a big chain.

[1261] We don't even have to mention any names.

[1262] But one of those big chains that sells sort of, you know, generic coffee.

[1263] Like does that...

[1264] You're talking about Starbucks?

[1265] I am talking about Starbucks.

[1266] Does that make you sad when you see that these fucking things are popping up all over the place?

[1267] Well, let me tell you a story.

[1268] So I started in coffee in San Diego.

[1269] I was running a coffee shop in the...

[1270] I started in 87, right?

[1271] So I was a barista in the early 90s and stuff.

[1272] And in 1994, we're running this coffee shop in San Diego and we got word that Starbucks was going to start opening stores in San Diego.

[1273] And everybody freaked out, like, oh my God, we're done.

[1274] We might as well, you know, they're going to drive us into the ground.

[1275] The year that Starbucks showed up was the busiest year that we had.

[1276] And every year after that it got busier.

[1277] And the great, so the great thing that Starbucks has done, and Starbucks is, you know, they started in the 70s in Seattle, a bunch of guys that really liked coffee.

[1278] And to grow this business.

[1279] They taught, in many ways, they taught the world how to drink coffee.

[1280] They taught the world to drink coffee in many ways.

[1281] When I was a kid, we used to drink coffee in the morning, like before I would go to work or, you know, like guys would go to Dunkin' Donuts and, like, I was working on construction job sites, guys would go to Dunkin' Donuts and bring back coffees for everybody.

[1282] But there was no, like, going to a coffee shop and buying a coffee in the middle of day.

[1283] Right.

[1284] That sort of Starbucks shifted people's mentality.

[1285] Well, it shifted their behavior too.

[1286] Like Brian, like he's, oh, the guy was here earlier.

[1287] He's always got a fucking venty coffee in his hand.

[1288] No matter of where he goes, he's got a Starbucks in his hand.

[1289] That's right.

[1290] And so, and so, and that's important, you know.

[1291] So they've, you know, they've grown and gotten very ubiquitous and stuff.

[1292] They've got shops all over the place.

[1293] But it's not that delicious.

[1294] It's not the best stuff.

[1295] It's, well, I mean...

[1296] You know, I know you're trying to be nice.

[1297] I don't want to accuse anybody of anything.

[1298] But, okay, let me put it this way in a very nice way.

[1299] Instead of saying something negative about them, which I use all the time, by the way.

[1300] I'm not a Starbucks hater.

[1301] I buy Starbucks all the time.

[1302] I have no problem with it.

[1303] And if you were going to look for a very specific, very gourmet type of coffee, that's not where you would go.

[1304] Not a bad cup of coffee?

[1305] Right.

[1306] Not a bad cup of coffee, but if you want to go really, you want to have some of this stuff and have it this way.

[1307] Right.

[1308] I wouldn't go to a Starbucks store because that's not what they're doing.

[1309] They're bringing coffee to the people.

[1310] Yes, they're bringing like a Pikes Peak and maybe a dark roast and that's it.

[1311] And I will say, though, that I've been to Starbucks where they're, you know, they've got access to awesome coffees.

[1312] And they do have that.

[1313] They do do that.

[1314] It's not in every store.

[1315] Right, right, right.

[1316] You know.

[1317] Well, they have the Clovers now.

[1318] Yeah, they've got the Clovers.

[1319] I've never seen one in a Starbucks.

[1320] Yeah, they've got them in special stores, and that's another thing that they're doing.

[1321] They're starting to, you may have seen it in the news, they're designing different stores that do different things, and they're, you know, they're a specialty coffee company that's doing their thing, you know.

[1322] And they do have a wide variety when you buy the bags.

[1323] They've got like limited small lot stuff that they do.

[1324] How should you store coffee?

[1325] We put it in the freezer.

[1326] Is that bad?

[1327] It depends.

[1328] Uh, it can be bad.

[1329] Can be bad?

[1330] It can be bad if your freezer stinks and you don't, you know, you don't seal the bag up well enough.

[1331] No, we don't have stinky freezers.

[1332] Then you're good.

[1333] We don't ever put anything in there but coffee.

[1334] Yeah.

[1335] One, and the other problem is, like, right now we took the, we took the coffee out and it got up to room temperature.

[1336] And if you take a, like, if you take a coffee mug that's in the freezer out and you put on your thing, it gets all wet on the outside.

[1337] Right.

[1338] Then you've got that problem, you know?

[1339] Uh -huh.

[1340] In general, we don't tell people, we generally encourage people not to put it freezer just and just drink it fast okay so but i will say that if i was on if i was in alaska or something you know and i could only get a shipment of coffee once every six months i would freeze it oh okay but but i don't ideal i don't okay yeah it's not ideal it's so you should essentially i'm sorry to drive you but you should essentially do it almost like you buy vegetables yeah exactly i always say like you buy bread so you should get it and between the time that it's dried and between the time that it's roasted and then you drink it how much time should take place between the time it's roasted and the time you drink it so the drying it's it's essentially it's good for how long once it's dried once it's dried in in nicaragua or whatever then it's usually good for about a year a year yeah yeah okay and that's good because it's about once a year you know coffee coffee harvest happens once in a year they dry it all they get it together they stabilize it by drying and then they ship it to roasters in the u .s okay so assuming you're in the correct window um then once you get it to a roaster, how long after it's roasted should you drink it and does it matter, or should you brew it, and does it matter how it's stored then?

[1341] Usually the window after roasting is about two weeks.

[1342] Two weeks only?

[1343] Yeah.

[1344] That's it.

[1345] Yeah, like bread.

[1346] Wow.

[1347] You know?

[1348] That's crazy.

[1349] So you really should roast to order.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] And so that's why, you know, a good coffee roasting company.

[1352] So we have some old coffee.

[1353] We should just throw it away.

[1354] Yeah, there's no point.

[1355] Wow.

[1356] get some new coffee but um like this one it says it says when it was roasted yeah right there you know i see that yeah thank you so that's a that's a that's a that's a good sign when a when a roaster cares enough to like put the roasting date on there this shit was roasted just a couple of days ago yeah that's how you do it huh and this is from a wrecking ball recing ball and where's this company in san francisco right san francisco is awesome yeah of course they would have something like this there yeah and the uh the uh it's kind of a cool company too the the the uh the uh It's a couple owns this company.

[1357] She's like a kind of a legendary roaster.

[1358] She's been roasting coffee for a long time.

[1359] And he is like a pretty famous barista guy, and they got together, and they've got kind of the, they're kind of a power couple in coffee.

[1360] That sounds amazing.

[1361] Yeah, they're cool.

[1362] Wrecking ball coffee.

[1363] All right, I'm going to buy some of this.

[1364] You can buy it online?

[1365] You can buy it online.

[1366] And so when you buy it online, do they roast it when you order it?

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] A good coffee company will do that.

[1369] They'll sort of collect the orders and then, and then, you can buy it.

[1370] do a roasting day and send it all out lots of times you get it the day after it was my friend has a coffee company called caveman coffee and they when you order it from caveman coffee .com or whatever fuck it is they roast it as you order it's cool that's the only way to do it right that's very cool and they should probably start including roasted on dates huh they don't have roasted on dates but that shit sounds like it's important sure well I mean if you're lighting on the bag or something I was making a decision about what coffee you know to bring you today that made a difference you know dude you knocked out of the park because this is a unique flavor, and it's different, it's unique, and in a weird, unexpected way, you know?

[1371] I really, really like it.

[1372] Cool.

[1373] I love the smell of it, too, man. What do the beans smell like?

[1374] Did they have a unique smell, too?

[1375] Yeah, you should get a little bit of a whiff of that, of that...

[1376] Whoa, that's amazing.