Locked On Bengals - Daily Podcast On The Cincinnati Bengals XX
[0] The NFL combine is almost here.
[1] What are we expecting for the Cincinnati Bengals this weekend in the draft before the combine gives us more information?
[2] Let's get into it.
[3] You are locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of the locked on podcast network, your team every day.
[4] What up Bengals fans and welcome to another episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.
[5] I'm your host Jake Lisko.
[6] He's your host James Rapine.
[7] We're part of the Lockdown Podcast Network here on Lockdown Bengals, your team every day on YouTube and everywhere you get your podcasts.
[8] Today we're taking a look at some pre -combine expectations and very soon it will be all about post -combine expectations and reacting to the things that we see and hear throughout the NFL combine coming up.
[9] this week and into next week it's now a multi -week event the nfl combine maybe it's been like that for a while it feels like it keeps getting longer james we will be discussing that this week we've got some of your questions in the mailbag this week that we will throw in there as well pertaining to the combine and the nfl draft and let's start with a mailbag question here james this is a tricky one because we've talked a lot in this pre -draft season about the The need to find impact regardless of position and find players that make your team better regardless of where they play football.
[10] But Adam Wheels at AC Wheels 10 on Twitter asks, assuming the Bengals somehow acquire a pick to get to seven picks, say it's trading Jermaine Pratt.
[11] If BPA were to line up, what would be the ideal way this plays out?
[12] for position groups for him he says two defensive linemen on the interior a tight end of running back a safety a defensive lineman or defensive edge sorry and an interior offensive line yeah i assume those aren't ranked uh in in order uh so i'll rank them because i i do think that that's that that hits that's playing the hits and those are all positions that we're going to discuss for sure from a need standpoint I think this could change in free agency much, much easier.
[13] I think regardless of what you do in free agency, interior defensive line is going to be huge.
[14] It's going to be just based on this draft, based on what the Bengals need, even if they go make a splash on the interior, it's not like you're going to say, oh, no, I don't want another good interior defensive lineman.
[15] That won't be the case.
[16] So that's going to be high there.
[17] So I would agree there.
[18] I think interior offensive line.
[19] It just hasn't been a priority.
[20] Like I was thinking we've been doing this since 2020.
[21] Think about the interior offensive linemen that they've drafted in the Joe Burrow era.
[22] Deontay Smith, Cordell Volson, the Trey Hill.
[23] Like who am I?
[24] I mean, Jackson, Carmen, I guess is you, you would throw in there.
[25] But no, I want to forget that.
[26] Like, what do you mean, of course?
[27] No, I want to block that completely.
[28] He was the highest resource they spent on an interior lineman.
[29] The worst pick of the Joe Burrow era, easily.
[30] You know, I just, it's painful.
[31] And so I do think that that one is there.
[32] And what's tough is, in this draft, and we were talking about it a little bit before we started recording, the defensive line, at least, and the defensive tackles at least line up with that need.
[33] I'm not sure.
[34] I feel that way.
[35] Or the NFL feels that way, at least going into the combine, about the interior offensive line class.
[36] So last year we talked about it a ton.
[37] Man, can you get that guard center flex in the mid rounds?
[38] Well, they didn't.
[39] And now it's like, all right, well, where do you find it?
[40] And the answer for that one might be, if it's not early in the draft, like really early, might be in free agency.
[41] It's probably early or you're not getting a starter level player on the interior offensive line.
[42] I think there's a handful of starting interior offensive linemen that will be picked early.
[43] Inevitably, there will be some surprises from the later rounds, but you can never bank on those.
[44] If the Bengals finally hit a mid -to -late -round starter that's a plus starter at the NFL level, go back to Clinton Bowling kind of player, great.
[45] But they haven't done that for quite a while.
[46] So I do agree with you that even if they were to go sign Milton Williams, interior defensive tackle, adding additional talent there, in a draft that is stacked on the defensive interior needs to be a priority for the Bengals.
[47] Find the way to make the BPA line up because it should at some point.
[48] I'm not saying force it, but I'm saying at some point in this draft, given the strength of the interior defensive line class, you will find a player that fits what you want, who can make an impact, and then that's when you pull the trigger.
[49] If it's the first round on a Walter Nolan, or maybe they love Kenneth Grant, those two guys are two of the more frequently mocked players to the Bengals right now around the internet, around the many, many mocks out there.
[50] Great.
[51] If it's in the second round and it's a different player, also great, as long as we're making sure that value is a match.
[52] I'd be shocked if they didn't address defensive tackle on the first two days, even if they signed two guys in free agency.
[53] Wouldn't you be shocked that it wouldn't line up?
[54] I just expect that.
[55] And so I'm not expecting it necessarily at 17.
[56] I think a lot of people are there already.
[57] It's February.
[58] I'm not going to be there with any position unless it's like the Joe Burrow year where you know they're taking Joe Burrow.
[59] Yeah, I think 17 could still go a lot of different ways.
[60] I think even last year it was more compelling or more pointed in the direction of an offensive tackle.
[61] in the first round than this year is any position in the first round where you could say defensive tackle is the thing that makes the most sense i wouldn't even necessarily disagree with you but i think there's a stronger signal this year than offensive tackle was last year and the reason that i would say it makes sense this year is because again the interior defensive line class very strong but i think you could also throw edge into that conversation in the first round and again a very strong edge rusher class and a position that i think they would like to add some talent now They, I think, have a more pressing need on the interior in their minds because they would probably think of it as we have a first round pick that's going into his third year, Miles Murphy, that they're going to be expecting a lot from.
[62] And they've talked about that.
[63] Now, that's not an excuse, though, to not go add to that room, especially with questions still existing around Trey Hendrickson's future before the draft.
[64] They will probably know his future.
[65] Those are a couple of positions where I can see them address it early.
[66] And so we're talking trenches, I think, for early priorities.
[67] But then to Adam's question, tight end running back safety, I think all will be in consideration at some point throughout this draft, especially tight end where there's virtually no one on the roster for 2025.
[68] I mean, Drew Sample, Camp Grandy, I guess that's a stray for them.
[69] Apologies.
[70] They don't have a receiving threat at tight end at all.
[71] on the roster right now.
[72] We'll see what free agency does there, but regardless, getting a young developmental tight end, not developmental, a young tight end that they can use immediately and continue to develop an Eric All -Type player in terms of quality does need to be a priority for them at some point.
[73] Hopefully they have the opportunity to do that in the draft.
[74] In a position that he didn't mention that I want to throw in there, linebacker, I think, is...
[75] Right now, Logan Wilson and not a whole lot else.
[76] There's John Mehta on the roster that you should expect as well.
[77] But even if you expect John Mehta to start, there's a need of linebacker.
[78] Yeah, there is.
[79] They could take, just make it very clear, tight end could be the pick at 17.
[80] Not you specifically, but don't dismiss that now.
[81] I think that there's a chance.
[82] Linebacker could be the pick at 17.
[83] Jahad Campbell, anyone?
[84] Now, that does bolster your pass rush.
[85] Theoretically, that would be part of why you would take him at 17.
[86] But it's pretty open.
[87] I'm not at the point where I would dismiss corner.
[88] I don't know how the board would line up that way to where it would need to happen.
[89] But just from a position standpoint, not willing to do that yet.
[90] Safety seems like it's pretty unlikely that they would go there at 17.
[91] I do think defensive tackle is the most likely.
[92] Never dismiss offensive line.
[93] So there's a lot of areas, a lot of weaknesses or areas of need.
[94] And guess what, Jake?
[95] They're not going to be able to address all of them with the right guy in this year's draft.
[96] They're not going to hit home runs in every spot.
[97] They just need to hit home runs early on and get impactful guys because that'll help hide things a bit.
[98] And obviously they have to marry.
[99] the draft with free agency and what they do in free agency.
[100] And I think that's what's interesting is it's not like this draft is considered an all -world draft.
[101] There's some areas, defensive line, that people feel really good about, tight end feel good about, running back feel good about from a depth standpoint.
[102] And this free agent class isn't deemed as like this all -world free agent class.
[103] It's kind of a down year in free agency.
[104] So how the Bengals navigate it to maximize things, I do think.
[105] is an intriguing storyline because obviously you want free agency in the draft to marry up and give you the best roster that you possibly can for the 2025 season and beyond.
[106] Yeah, we'll wrap this conversation up and then get into tight ends and tight end styles and some specific tight ends that may or may not fit the Bengals as we continue the show, the pre -combine show coming up next.
[107] James, you mentioned the general texture of the draft class, the general texture of the free agency class, not being these all -world years to improve your team.
[108] I think that exploring trades is another part of that.
[109] If you're the Bengals, if you're a team looking to bolster a championship -level roster, there could be some very interesting players available in trades.
[110] These are things the Bengals do.
[111] So we'll see how the Bengals approach this offseason when it seems like a lot of their resources will be dedicated at least early on.
[112] to some of those guys that they would like to keep around in terms of their own veterans, their own stars, which we've talked about a ton.
[113] We're not going to spend a lot of time on today, but inevitably you will hear about as the combine gets going and people start talking in Indianapolis.
[114] You're already hearing about it, James.
[115] You found this one and put it up at bengalstalk .com.
[116] People talking to others around the league and reporting on all their skepticism that the Bengals will get things done outside of Cincinnati with T. Higgins.
[117] Of course, the league is skeptical of the Bengals doing what they say they want to do.
[118] But we'll, of course, see what ends up happening there.
[119] Very interesting draft class, though, James, when we talk about all the positions the Bengals need, how free agency will impact that, obviously, and change priorities a little bit based on the kinds of guys they bring in and where that moves some of the needs around, some of the priorities around, I think will be interesting.
[120] I mentioned the need for a pass -catching tight end, the need for a young, long -term tight end piece, which they were hoping Eric All would be.
[121] We'll see.
[122] Maybe eventually he gets back and can resume his path to that role.
[123] But Kirk Nelson at Cray Jacka on Twitter is curious about the type of tight end we think the Bengals would like this year, James.
[124] Do we think the Bengals are more interested in Colston Loveland or Tyler Warren?
[125] Mason Taylor, or Elijah Royo at tight end.
[126] From organization to coach to scheme, Kirk would like to see the Bengals aligned on the kind of tight end they bring in.
[127] Yeah, I think they are aligned.
[128] I think this might be the one position where they've been aligned throughout the years, and that's why they haven't reached in their minds, even though they've liked certain guys.
[129] I don't think there's been a big disparity there.
[130] The alignment includes the position value and positional value.
[131] And I think that's what's hurt them at times when they've evaluated tight ends well, whether it's a Tucker Craft or a Sam LaVorda, two guys that I think in an ideal world or in other worlds are Bengals at this time and in other universes and other scenarios.
[132] So I think the Tyler Warren, the discussion with him is like, all right, well, can he be healthy Eric all that gives you even more of everything that Eric all gives?
[133] And if so, I don't know how you would be able to look at last year and what Eric all did and say, oh, well that wouldn't be super valuable in this offense.
[134] At the same time, Loveland has the juice and does a lot of, and you were talking about this with Mike Renner.
[135] It's like, man, if you don't keep Gusecki, especially, and I know they're different, But if you don't keep Gusecki, can you imagine Joe Burrow throwing to Loveland and just what he could bring from a pass -catching standpoint, a threat over the middle, just the ability that he has athletically, how gifted of a pass -catcher he is at the tight end position.
[136] So I think it's interesting.
[137] I think Warren's certainly more well -rounded, but Loveland is more dynamic.
[138] and can you get his blocking good enough?
[139] Because if so, you can't teach dynamic.
[140] And if James Casey says, oh, well, I think I can get a little bit more of him as a blocker where we can line him up in line enough, well, then I think you know which way the Bengals would lead.
[141] I think there's a little bit more on the bone with Loveland as well in terms of development.
[142] Now, Warren was behind.
[143] guys that got drafted at tight end at Penn State.
[144] There's a reason that it took them a while to get on the field.
[145] And then we got on the field for Penn State like he was the offense.
[146] They built it around him.
[147] Meanwhile, Michigan is running its pass game through Colson Loveland.
[148] So you have a couple of guys that are focal points for the respective offenses between those two guys.
[149] And Tyler Warren's out there taking direct snaps, running the ball, throwing the ball.
[150] And there's a play I was watching.
[151] I remember I was watching him with Joe Goodberry.
[152] trying to figure out where he was on the field and why this play was included.
[153] I'm like, oh, he's not even on the field.
[154] Why is this play in this cut up?
[155] And it was because he took the direct snap.
[156] And that was the first direct snap I ever saw Tyler Warren take.
[157] And I was confused because I was looking at the tight end positions and the wide receiver positions.
[158] He wasn't out there at any of those.
[159] So he does a lot of really cool things, is a dynamic player, but doesn't have the level of athleticism or speed.
[160] that Colston Loveland brings you, the level of refinement as a receiver.
[161] Meanwhile, Loveland is probably playing, you know, big slot receiver for you.
[162] He's big enough to be in line.
[163] He's 6 '5", 245. He's 21 years old. He'll get a little bit bigger in the NFL. So can you develop that blocking part of his game? Can you use him as a move blocker off the line of scrimmage, off the point of attack, the way they use Eric Hall? Can he attack those? blocks coming across the formation with violence and aggression the way that we saw Eric Hall do it? Is that part of his game? Is that the way that he would play? Or is it more of what it looked like when they had Tanner Hudson out there? And he's trying to do it, but just doesn't bring the same approach or attacking mentality or physical style that Eric Hall did. Because you need some of that at tight end, I think. That is something that you have to consider. And then you look down the draft, a deep tight end class, right? Elijah Royo is going to be a fascinating player. I think he is expected to absolutely tear up the combine, was a guy that really came on in the second half of last season, showed out at the senior bowl, looks like again. He could be an electric receiver at the next level. And Mason Taylor is seen as kind of this all -rounder who is a very smooth player, should be a reliable receiver, has upside as a tight end, and can do a little bit more in line. And that's not even to mention Harold Fannin, who some people like as tight end one in this draft, who is probably getting picked. Somewhere in day two. So a lot of tight ends there. That's not mentioning some of the guys further down in the draft that I think will be interesting for different reasons as more developmental players. But as far as the Bengals style, Tucker Craft and Sam Laporte are different kinds of players, right, James? We think they like both of them. We also think they really liked Dalton Kincaid that year. Well, that will point you toward Colston Loveland, if that is a preference, right? If they saw that draft class, how it played out. Saw Sam Laporte play out in the NFL. That would point you a little bit more toward Colston Loveland between those two guys, I would think. But Warren and the full skill set there, if he makes it to their pick in the first round, I think would have to be considered quite strongly. Yeah, I think. And I don't think he's going to as of now. Again, pre -combine take. I don't think Tyler Warren's there. I think Loveland has a real good shot to be there. And they will be considered. For sure. And I think when it comes to Kincaid, at least initially, and I was really high on Kincaid, and I think that the situation there is interesting and kind of wild that it hasn't worked out better from a production standpoint in Buffalo. But Loveland, man, he's what the Bengals loved about Kincaid. You're right. It's the best of that. It's multi -years. How old is Loveland? He's 21. He's actually not 21 yet. He's turning 21 between now and the draft. And that's a big difference. With multiple tight ends in this class, Kincaid was older and had just started producing. Loveland, you see it. You see it with these other guys that have produced. Fannin's 20 as well. I think this is the draft to take a tight end. I know that irks people, but... It would be because of the needs and the trenches. I get that. But it would probably be a mistake if the Bengals didn't find a way to get a tight end. Now, I'm not saying force it, but it's hard for me to envision a year where there's like six or seven starting level tight ends, according to some of these draft experts. And you look at the Bengals and you're like, man, you can't find a way for that to line up at all. You know, the next Tucker Craft would be nice in stripes if you could find that. And that doesn't mean in round one. But on the first two days of the draft, I think a tight end can make a ton of sense. It might be as much of a favorite as any position on offense, at least going into the combine. Yeah, you're talking about the strength of this draft class. You're talking about tight end and defensive line on the first two days, probably, if you're thinking about it from a Cincinnati Bengals perspective. Maybe throw safety in there, too, because I think there's some really interesting safeties in the first couple of days of the... of the draft as well, but from like a position need, strength of draft, value perspective, that's where I think this class is pushing you. That's the direction you're getting pulled in. It'll be really interesting to hear what Duke Tobin and these coaches have to say about this draft class. And we start to get some hints from what the Bengals are thinking about this draft class in the coming days as well. And one question will be, what kind of edge rusher they like? Let's discuss that position and archetypally a little bit, given the Bengals preferences there in the past coming up next. All right, let's keep the mailbag rolling as I talk over you with Brayden State, who at B State B on X asks, how real is the concern over the edges height and weight? We have seen them go after big guys, but they can't bend. What do you know if you think? They will change the way they evaluate their edges this year because of all the quote whiffs they've had in recent years. I don't think that this is a year that we should expect significant change. I'm still hoping that there's some more flexibility here, that it's perhaps more coincidental that they keep going after these bigger guys than necessarily a strong preference. But that is, as the kids say, maybe a little bit of cope more than hope. I think you look at the James Pierce and Mike Green early draft pick profiles in this class, and you see 245, 251. We'll see what they weigh at the combine, but Mike Green was 251 at the Senior Bowl. And I think there should be reasonable skepticism that the Bengals would be interested in that kind of player. This is a nearly decades -long, if not decades -long trend. for the Bengals, and if there was ever a time for them to explore this style of edge rusher, it would have been when they were a five -man surface, a 5 -2 heavy defense with Luana Remo. And Al Golden's talking about going to a 4 -3 base. And so then, maybe you are talking about, you mentioned Jahad Campbell earlier, maybe you're talking about Jalen Walker, if he's not a top. 10 player the way that he's expected to be a top 10 player. Some of these guys have played off the ball but also have edge rushing ability or were edge rushers, recruited as edge rushers, then ended up playing off the ball because Alabama and Georgia were so stacked. Depending on what the case was, right? Finding the role for those guys. Maybe there would be consideration there if they think they can also play off the ball. And then best case would be that you find a guy that stumbles into a Micah Parsons path. And it's just that good on the ball that you just have to put them there. But it seems like more likely the Bengals would be interested in like a Nick Scurton, 280, 6 '4", and has the productivity.
[164] Or like the one that I think everyone's afraid of right now, the Shamar Stewart, 6 '5", 280.
[165] Another traits kind of pick, or even Mikel Williams, 265.
[166] on the bottom end of that range that the Bengals really like, but 260 plus, they're relatively comfortable.
[167] And so when you look at the guys that have the size of Bengals like, you don't necessarily have the production or the pass rushing profile.
[168] And so that's where I think a lot of Bengals fans are looking at this class like, can they get both?
[169] Can they break their mold?
[170] Or are we going to see more of the same?
[171] Nick Skurton, I just looked it up as you were talking about him.
[172] Lance Zerline, guess who he comped?
[173] Guess the pro comp.
[174] Well, if you're asking me, I'm guessing it's Miles Murphy.
[175] Trey Hendrickson.
[176] Oh, that's more exciting.
[177] Look at you going negative.
[178] See, Jake, everyone's going negative.
[179] See, you get Trey Hendrickson Jr. Jr. skirting alongside Hendrickson.
[180] But no, I think I agree.
[181] I think the size is still going to be a factor.
[182] Now.
[183] The production is such a thing here in the impact.
[184] And I'm fine with taking a defensive player in round one, round two, round three.
[185] If you want to, make sure they're giving you impact right away.
[186] And this isn't a four snaps here, 12 snaps here, six snaps here.
[187] And that's tough to evaluate.
[188] And that aligns with, because a lot of people say, oh, well, I want them to be more open.
[189] And that's a factor here.
[190] But the other factor here when it comes to their evaluations, and we've seen this, is the plan.
[191] Hey, Lou, you want Dax Hill?
[192] Hell yeah, Lou wants Dax Hill.
[193] What's the plan?
[194] Can we all figure out the plan for Dax Hill?
[195] Can we all figure out the plan for Miles Murphy, how we're going to get him from a solid against the run, lacking pass rush moves, uber athlete?
[196] and get the most out of him and i'm sure they had those conversations but they need to be in lockstep here so so they get it right because i i refuse to believe that dax oh myles murphy just can't play football and aren't good and we started to see that with dax and i think we've seen a little bit from miles but we just haven't seen a lot of them and part of that's the plan and so i i think the way you One, you have a plan for these guys and you have to be aligned there, which we were asked about earlier in the show.
[197] But the production part of it, man, production is huge.
[198] And so who knows?
[199] Maybe Nick Skirton is the next Trey Hendrickson.
[200] Wouldn't that be nice?
[201] Yeah, that would be nice.
[202] And we talked about some of these guys with Mike yesterday.
[203] So for those of you that heard that show, you heard us talk about some of these names at the Ed Rusher spot.
[204] But I just think that the Bengals have to take a look in the mirror.
[205] and see what's happened with their recent edge picks and figure out what's gone wrong and try to address that.
[206] And if that means that they conclude, that's how I think you get to the conclusion that you can draft Mike Green.
[207] Off -field stuff aside, if you can figure out that you have a guy that's playing with intensity.
[208] power bringing it against the run like nolan smith even though he's smaller that's how you talk yourself into it because he has the athleticism and the moves and the production even if it was a marshall showed up at the senior bowl it's still awesome right that's how you talk yourself in to a different type of player is is by reflecting and seeing okay we need a guy that is a little bit more refined or has more of a plan but to to your point the other thing that is so important is having a development plan and that's why they hired al golden is no matter who they pick i think an emphasis given the way they're talking about what al golden's strengths are will be all right al and staff what's your plan for this guy how are we going to get the most out of him and that's obviously incumbent on al golden and his staff but Talking about the edge rusher position, given the recent track record for the Bengals, the entire defensive line, really, like having a development plan and a plan to play them early on is going to be crucial.
[209] And that is largely why Al Golden is now the defensive coordinator of the Bengals instead of Lou Anaruma.
[210] Yeah, it's a very good point.
[211] And it's going to hit all of these levels of the defense.
[212] We mentioned linebacker.
[213] And could they...
[214] Go that route early in the draft.
[215] What will they do in the secondary?
[216] Safety?
[217] There's going to be a ton of time to discuss those.
[218] It'll probably come up this week.
[219] We're going to hear from Al Golden this week and react to his comments at some point.
[220] We'll hear from Zach and Duke as well.
[221] Look at me combining them.
[222] Dak. Dak Taylor and Zook Tobin.
[223] There we go.
[224] I flipped him.
[225] Real quick, just because I looked up these Lancer line player profiles.
[226] We talked about Tyler Warren.
[227] compared him to jeremy shockey so that one's interesting gave him a 677 overall grade which is fourth on his big board two spots lower colston loveland a 670 compared him to sam laporta really interesting that's all really there's a reason i mentioned laporta to you before we started recording when we were talking about loveland we will hear from what just called because you read you read lance is that why I know.
[228] We'll be hearing from, I think you called them Zook, Taylor.
[229] Zook and Dak. Dak, Tobin.
[230] Yeah.
[231] Duke and Zach will be meeting with the media in Indianapolis on Tuesday, and we'll be sure to have plenty to talk about from their comments.
[232] Until then, that's going to do it for this episode of the Lockdown Bengals podcast.
[233] Hootay, and have a good one.