Don’t Let a Disaster Dictate Your Financial Reality

[0] What's going on?

[1] This is John and my good friend George Camel and this is The Ramsey Show live from Nashville, Tennessee, where we talk to people about their money, their relationships, their mental and emotional health, their work, just about any and everything.

[2] We're taking your calls live, AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25, and we're going to go out to Redding, Pennsylvania, and talk to Anton to get this show going this afternoon.

[3] What's up?

[4] Anton, how are we doing?

[5] Good.

[6] How are you guys?

[7] Outstanding, brother.

[8] Is it Anton?

[9] Yes, Anton.

[10] That's a sneaking suspicion.

[11] Oh, great.

[12] Sorry, Anton.

[13] I just want to respect the name.

[14] That's all good.

[15] Can you guys hear me okay?

[16] Yeah, we got you, man. What's going on?

[17] Awesome.

[18] So I wanted a little advice on the situation I got going on.

[19] So I run my own business, and it's been going really well.

[20] But two weeks ago, I had a seizure, which my heart stopped beating.

[21] for a little bit and I stopped breathing.

[22] And when I came to and I'm healthy, it kind of, you know, made me reevaluate every decision I've made, every decision I'm making.

[23] And, you know, the best thing to do to leave my wife in a good situation in case anything happens.

[24] Wow.

[25] Have they worked through what happened?

[26] Have they been able to give you some clarity on to what your body's doing?

[27] Yeah.

[28] So I pretty much had a severe panic attack that was brought on by some previous trauma.

[29] And my body pretty much just decided to shut down and they said hey that's it you're going to have a seizure now and we're out uh what's the what's the trauma that your body was replaying um it's some prior PTSD from some family stuff that happened with my brother unfortunately he's doing great now but it's just things that i you know have to live with okay did this happen out of the blue or was there family stuff going on that that started a domino effect that kicked this that ended with this collapse you know surprisingly it was a scene and a movie.

[30] And the scene was pretty much exactly what I lived.

[31] My brain told myself, this could be a problem.

[32] You can handle it.

[33] And sure enough, I couldn't handle it.

[34] Gotcha.

[35] So what's been the follow -up?

[36] So, I mean, I'm healthy now, which is good.

[37] My brain's a little rattled.

[38] And, you know, I have a business where I build custom fish ponds and I breed high -end coy fish.

[39] And the business is great.

[40] Things are doing good.

[41] But, you know, after that, I was like, oh, man, you know, my time on here could be, you know, limited at any moment, providly, like, if it's time to go, it's time to go.

[42] So I was thinking about, you know, what do I, what do I do with my business if I were to go and, you know, my wife can't do what I do?

[43] I have money in investments and things like that, which she can have.

[44] But I'm trying to figure out if I maybe pivot to something that's more, you know, palatable for her to be able to run if something happens to me and I sell my business or if I just keep going.

[45] and pack money away and, you know, get ourselves in a better situation.

[46] Can I challenge you a bit, Anton?

[47] Absolutely.

[48] Anytime we have a moment where we feel like we're betrayed by our own body, when it lets us down, whether it's an anxiety response or a panic attack response or a heart attack or a stroke or aneurysm, there's that, the foundation of our life gets shaken, right?

[49] It feels like the sidewalk we were walking on is suddenly cracked and it's not safe to walk on anymore, because the one thing we could always count on was our bodies, right?

[50] Yep.

[51] And when family relationships are screwy, when neighborhoods, when finances, when politicians, I can count on me. And then your body said, and we're out, right?

[52] Yep.

[53] So times of reflection after that are really, really important because you're right.

[54] Yeah.

[55] You got to peer over the edge and be like, oh, man, our life is fragile and it's quick and it's short.

[56] and you can also take reflection a little bit too far and you can respond to this type of kind of shaking of the snow globe with an entirely anxious response which is what you're doing because here's what you're doing you're now starting to plan for problems in the future that aren't real oh yeah the fight or flight's telling me to you know flight right and so you are trying to flee from your present reality and so what you're going to do is you're trying to live into the future and to create a job in the present that one day your wife will carry on without you because you're going to die young and then you want to make sure she, dude, now you're inventing stories to try to solve in the present as a way to not deal with.

[57] You've been through a lot, haven't you?

[58] Yeah, I grew up with nothing, abusive household, you know, dug ourselves out and, like, things were finally going great, and then this happened, and then I just felt like that little kid again of being out of control, and it's scary.

[59] Okay, but when you came two, tell me about your marriage.

[60] Oh, marriage is great.

[61] I mean, we've been through a lot.

[62] Hold on, don't qualify, don't qualify it.

[63] You've been qualifying your whole life.

[64] Your marriage is good?

[65] Okay, fair enough.

[66] Marriage is good.

[67] You love the woman you're married to?

[68] Absolutely, 100%.

[69] She loves you?

[70] Absolutely.

[71] Do you have little ones?

[72] No. What's the state of your finances?

[73] Finances are good.

[74] We have been paying off debts.

[75] I only have about $10 ,000 left, and I took my house from 30 years to holy down to only having four years left on it.

[76] So we are sitting pretty for our age.

[77] How old are you?

[78] I am 26.

[79] Awesome.

[80] Do you have life insurance in place?

[81] I don't.

[82] It was something that I was in the middle of working on, and the paperwork should be started soon, but I was listening to Ramsey a lot and kind of figuring out, you know, all.

[83] of that.

[84] And so we were looking at some options that kind of follow the Ramsey plan a little more.

[85] Please do it today.

[86] As soon as you're off the phone, contact our friends that go to zander .com and get a term life quote, 10 to 12 times your annual income, 15 to 20 year term should be great for you.

[87] But that's going to give you the real piece of mind you're looking for of the, like, what if something happens to me?

[88] She's not going to be the business.

[89] It's how is she going to pay the bills for the next 20 years?

[90] Yeah.

[91] And so that's something I would do today.

[92] to give you a little bit more peace as you figure out what's next.

[93] Yeah, absolutely.

[94] If you're following the Ramsey plan, we'll tell everybody to get life insurance.

[95] You got to, you got to, you got to.

[96] You're going to have to go through some extra testing probably.

[97] That's just par for the course.

[98] Cool, just head right into it.

[99] But here's what I want you to see.

[100] Your body immediately took you back to when you were 12 years old and getting beat up in your own home, right?

[101] Yep.

[102] And then when you came to, you came to in the present where you're a great husband and you're a hard worker and you've transformed your family's future financial situation and one of the things our bodies does is it just replays those old stories until we can show it that we weren't safe then but we're safe now yeah and so you mentioned early in the call you you're all good now I'm gonna tell you brother you're not but you're also in a remarkable position to now go get the healing that you need to do right and my goal for you is not that you can undo what happened in your kid because you can't but you'll be able to think about it you'll be able to watch a movie scene and your body won't drag you back 20 years back to hell it will remember and you'll go who and your heart rate will go up a little bit but you'll recognize you're surrounded by a woman who loves you the family who's with you now you're safe financially.

[103] You got a team, you got a gang, and so on and so forth.

[104] Does that make sense?

[105] Yeah.

[106] Oh yeah.

[107] It makes sense.

[108] I just needed to talk through it, man. No, you got it.

[109] I'm proud of you for saying it out loud.

[110] You want to quit your job, quit your job.

[111] Don't quit your job because 20 years from now you might drop dead and your wife's going to not want to carry on a coy business.

[112] Right?

[113] And my guess is you love what you do.

[114] I think you love raising fish and you love doing all and creating ponds on.

[115] That's amazing.

[116] That's awesome.

[117] Continue to build that business.

[118] Build that business so big that the pile of money you leave your wife, she won't have to work.

[119] And then she can sell it to some other young guy who's creating his life moving forward.

[120] But man, you're on the right path.

[121] Your healing journey starts right now.

[122] This is the Ramsey show.

[123] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[124] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[125] It's hitting us right now.

[126] We got travel and work and all these forms to find.

[127] fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[128] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[129] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[130] Here's what I've learned.

[131] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[132] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[133] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[134] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[135] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[136] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[137] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[138] And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[139] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[140] Never skip therapy day.

[141] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[142] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[143] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[144] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[145] I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel, AAA.

[146] 825, 5 -225, that's 888, 825, 52225.

[147] Selling a house the Ramsey Way makes home ownership something to celebrate, not something that ruins every part of your life.

[148] The Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey, and here's a deal, to get you the best offer on your house or find the right house for you.

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[160] All right, let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to M -A -D -T.

[161] What's up, Matt?

[162] How are we doing?

[163] Good.

[164] How are you?

[165] We're partying, brother.

[166] How can we help, man?

[167] So I sort of have like one question.

[168] So I'm not like an avid watcher of the Ramsey show, but I see a lot of clips online where you guys talk about mutual funds and investing in mutual funds.

[169] I was wondering, why do you recommend mutual funds over index funds?

[170] Great question, man. How old are you?

[171] 21.

[172] Lovely.

[173] And are you investing right now?

[174] Yeah, I've been investing since I was 15.

[175] Oh, my goodness.

[176] Dude, that's amazing.

[177] Who taught you that?

[178] My dad taught me a little bit, and I read about it.

[179] Nice.

[180] What have you been investing in for the past six years?

[181] So I was doing like mostly index funds, but I like to play around, do some stock picks, but, you know, obviously not a lot of, not a big portion of my portfolio goes towards that.

[182] Okay.

[183] Are you working full -time?

[184] Oh, yeah, I'm in marketing.

[185] Nice.

[186] That's amazing.

[187] Okay.

[188] And how much are you investing as a percentage of your gross household income?

[189] Probably like 25, 30 percent.

[190] Oh, my goodness.

[191] Okay.

[192] So you're going to be a multimillionaire regardless of this conversation that happens next.

[193] Can we agree on that?

[194] Yeah.

[195] Okay.

[196] Where do you live, Matt?

[197] Right outside of Charlotte.

[198] No, no, no. Do you have your own house, your own apartment?

[199] You live with mom?

[200] Where are you living?

[201] No. I still live with my mom at home.

[202] Okay.

[203] All right.

[204] Cool.

[205] How much do you make a year?

[206] Yeah.

[207] 80 to 90.

[208] Oh, my goodness.

[209] Dude, you're crushing it.

[210] So we're talking, you're investing like 18 ,000 a year.

[211] Yeah.

[212] And you've got a 401k through your employer?

[213] No. I use a Roth IRA.

[214] Okay.

[215] So what happens after you max that out?

[216] I just put in a regular brokerage.

[217] Okay.

[218] Great.

[219] So let's talk about index funds versus mutual.

[220] funds.

[221] And for the, for the listeners' sake, if they're like, what are these goober nerds talking about?

[222] Index funds are basically passively managed mutual funds.

[223] So still a giant group of stocks, but it's tracking an index, basically a set list of companies.

[224] Whereas the mutual funds that are actively managed has an investment manager that is selecting the funds that make the list.

[225] Let's go even simpler for guys like me. When you say indexed, they're indexed and they're passively managed.

[226] So indexed, there's no one running the show.

[227] It's just a set list.

[228] So they pick, I'm making these up, they pick.

[229] The S &P 500.

[230] There's 500 companies, the largest US companies.

[231] And if they go up, then the index fund goes up.

[232] And if they just all go down, then the index fund kind of goes down.

[233] And over time, we hope these companies just keep getting bigger and growing.

[234] And then can companies fall off the S &P 500?

[235] And new ones pop in.

[236] Yes.

[237] So the whole thing should be just going up over time.

[238] Exactly.

[239] And so index funds means nobody's driving.

[240] It's just following whatever those.

[241] It's the autonomous vehicle of the investing world.

[242] You like that?

[243] You just ruined it for people.

[244] I know.

[245] I know.

[246] Excellent.

[247] Okay, okay.

[248] So is that a good summary, Matt?

[249] Because you know about this stuff just as much as we do.

[250] Yeah.

[251] I mean, one thing that's sort of important to like note is that mutual funds sort of have built -in fees, right?

[252] You know what I mean?

[253] Correct.

[254] Like there's built -in fees.

[255] There's an investment manager.

[256] There's people to pay because this is their job to run these.

[257] Exactly.

[258] So they do have fees.

[259] The perks of the index funds, as you know, diversification, which mutual funds have, low expense ratios, which index funds have, and predictability.

[260] And, you know, every investing rose has its thorn.

[261] For starters, your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market.

[262] Does that make sense?

[263] So you'll settle for the average of the market.

[264] You can never beat it.

[265] The goal of the mutual fund is that that investment manager is picking, is hand -selecting funds based on tons and tons of research that they're doing every day, day in and day out, in order to attempt to beat it.

[266] So let's say the market does 10%.

[267] Well, the goal of the mutual fund is to do 12 % or 14%.

[268] Now, as we know, they won't hit that goal every year.

[269] We don't have a crystal ball.

[270] We can agree on that?

[271] Do you have, do you look for specifics in a mutual fund to try to hit those funds?

[272] Because I know 80 % of mutual funds don't beat the market.

[273] No, that's actually factually incorrect.

[274] Morningstar did this article, and they said nearly 57 % of mutual funds, these active U .S. equity funds, they beat the average index fund peer over the 12 months through June 2023.

[275] So that means six out of 10 mutual funds beat the index.

[276] Wait, over how long?

[277] Over a 12 -month period.

[278] They looked at, here's what mutual funds did, here's what the peer index fund did.

[279] Six out of 10 beat the index fund.

[280] Right, but why are you looking at a 12 -month period versus like, you know, decades?

[281] You can't look at decades, and it's going to change depending on the decade you look at.

[282] and the truth is there's going to be mutual funds that don't beat the index, and there's going to be years the index beats the mutual funds.

[283] And so the goal here is to slightly beat the copycat of the stock market, which is the index fund.

[284] And so the index funds also do have a fee.

[285] You'll see it listed as a 12b1 fee.

[286] And so that kind of makes up for the fact that the mutual fund fees there.

[287] So it's not exactly free.

[288] And here's the thing.

[289] We're not anti -index funds.

[290] There's a time and place.

[291] In fact, Dave Ramsey invests in index funds.

[292] outside of retirement.

[293] You have that taxable brokerage account, right?

[294] Yeah.

[295] Dave would say index funds are the smart play there because of the low turnover.

[296] They're not moving things around as much, which makes the fees less.

[297] But in retirement, you're not having to pay those fees because you're not worried about turnover because this is a long -term play, and therefore he invests in mutual funds for his retirement accounts, index funds outside of retirement.

[298] So there's a time and place for both.

[299] What do you look for in a mutual fund, though?

[300] Well, there's a lot of pieces of it, including, you know, rate of return, the expense ratio, what the fund is made up of, who the fund manager is.

[301] Have they switched the investment team recently?

[302] You know, if it's been doing great for 30 years and all of a sudden they switch the crew, well, that's something you want to look out for because things might change.

[303] And we actually covered this in -depth, Matt, in our investing essentials live stream.

[304] And it's not currently available, but just for you, I'm going to send you a link to watch that for free.

[305] How's that sound?

[306] good but um isn't that sort of um inevitable i mean if if a mutual fund has a 30 year history with one manager and i'm 21 and i want to invest for another 30 years you know isn't there pretty much a guarantee that um the fund manager is going to change the fund management team sure over time you know things may change but we're looking for is that longer term track record and so we're not going to choose a fund that's been around for a year we prefer the one that has a track record of 10 or 15 that's have the same team with the same record of success.

[307] But dude, that's like saying I don't want to root for the Yankees or the Astros because they're going to have different players in a few years.

[308] The goal is you hope that they have guiding principles and they have the same desire to win and they have the same integrity over time.

[309] Some teams are better integrity than others with the teams I just labeled.

[310] I know Kelly's looking at me not the Astros.

[311] But you see what I'm saying like, yeah, the fund manager is going to roll over, but it will change over time.

[312] here's the deal.

[313] We can argue all day and I can tell you like this, but you can be a multi -millionaire just from your index funds.

[314] You don't have to ever touch a mutual fund if you don't want or going to still be friends.

[315] You're doing great.

[316] The key is your savings rate.

[317] That's the key.

[318] That's what's holding people back from having money.

[319] It's not the discussion of index versus mutual.

[320] That's for another time.

[321] But for everyone else listening, just freaking invest.

[322] Be like Matt.

[323] At 21 years old, invest 18 grand a year.

[324] You're going to have money in retirement regardless of where you put it.

[325] And for what it's worth, George and I both put our money in mutual.

[326] funds.

[327] Call me a dummy.

[328] And me too.

[329] They do, George.

[330] They call us dummies.

[331] We'll be right back.

[332] You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks.

[333] 93 % of undergraduate private student loans are co -signed.

[334] So when you're delinquent and drowning, mom or Papa or Uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress along with you.

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[343] Funding may not be available in all states.

[344] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

[345] I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell.

[346] Triple -8 -825 -5 -2 -25.

[347] Campbell.

[348] Not Campbell.

[349] I heard Campbell.

[350] That's the most American name out there.

[351] George Campbell.

[352] The bee came out.

[353] I don't even know where they came from.

[354] It happens to the best of us.

[355] Boy, hey, come on.

[356] I call you John Bologna sometimes.

[357] You do.

[358] It happens.

[359] That one's on purpose, though.

[360] That's on purpose.

[361] Scott to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and talk to Brittany.

[362] Hey, Brittany, what's going on?

[363] Hi there.

[364] How are you?

[365] Outstanding.

[366] How are you?

[367] Good.

[368] I'm calling because my husband's employer, which is the federal government, is supposed to relocating us.

[369] Hold on the way you said that was incredible.

[370] My husband's employer, pause for disdain, the federal government.

[371] All right.

[372] What is your husband's employer done this time?

[373] Okay, so they are relocating his department from Harrisburg, T .A. to Columbus, Ohio.

[374] So he is currently making $88 ,000 a year, even though we are in South Central Pennsylvania, this specific base he's on got like lump in with the D .C. pay.

[375] So it's like this gem that everybody wants to do.

[376] Low cost of living with an amazing salary.

[377] Exactly.

[378] So now they're wanting us to move.

[379] move to Columbus, Ohio, where the pay is less and the cost of living is higher.

[380] So he's currently at $88 ,000 a year.

[381] They're saying his supervisor is leaving.

[382] And so in an effort to fill some voids because not everybody is moving, they are telling him that that would be perfect for him to move into that position.

[383] And so then if we were to move here and he were to start his supervisor's position, he would be making $91 ,000 a year, so it's not that big of a bump just because of the pay here is obviously not as good.

[384] So they're going to pay like relocation expenses, closing costs, and then they are also offering a bonus of 25 % of the salary, which is great.

[385] We have a month to decide.

[386] They're supposed to give us the official letter any day, like any time between today and June 30th.

[387] Hey, Brittany.

[388] I, yes.

[389] Do you want to live in Ohio?

[390] I don't know.

[391] That's the question here.

[392] Do you want to live in Ohio?

[393] It's hard.

[394] Do you have kids?

[395] Like, we do.

[396] We have two teenagers, and they, I homeschool them.

[397] Okay.

[398] And we're all open to it.

[399] Brittany, do you want to live in Ohio?

[400] I don't know.

[401] It's the unknown that's scary.

[402] I think you do know, you just don't want to say it out loud.

[403] It sounds like you're trying to find a way on paper or Twitter that you're going, this doesn't make sense.

[404] We shouldn't do it.

[405] When it's really just, I don't want to do it.

[406] And both are okay.

[407] have you talked to him about this and shared your honest feelings like listen yes it doesn't make sense but also I don't really want to go to Ohio well here's the thing we're on the same page he's like he's the one that said call I'm like we're in Ohio right now he's here working for the week and so we were on the way yesterday and he said just call and let's just see what they're thinking because he has worked so hard to get to where he is and I feel like you know every few years it seems like it's another little step back and so we got this job two years ago and And it's just tough.

[408] Like our house really owe about $100 ,000 on it, and we have such a low interest rate.

[409] And if we move here, we're going to be starting over on that.

[410] Brittany.

[411] And I make about $7 ,000 on like side stuff.

[412] Brittany, do you want to live in Ohio?

[413] Because if you don't, you owe it to yourself and you owe it to him to say that out loud.

[414] So that from a foundation of honesty and a foundation of cool, let's figure out what's next.

[415] because y 'all can make an informed decision together because y 'all said till death through us apart, right?

[416] Right.

[417] And for better and for worse.

[418] And he's had an amazing run.

[419] And here's the deal.

[420] He's going to have an amazing run.

[421] And y 'all are an amazing team.

[422] What happens if he says no and he stays put?

[423] So if he says no, they will find him a position in the area.

[424] It might not be at that same base.

[425] So it could be at, you know, another one where the pay is, again, not going to be as good.

[426] And they have, I think it's up to a year, so he, you know, he might end up on unemployment.

[427] I don't want him to leave the federal government.

[428] This is his goal for years.

[429] He applied it so many times over and over.

[430] And so this is like a miracle.

[431] Let's play out the other scenario, then.

[432] What happens if you stay and your life becomes worse and you're resentful for those reasons?

[433] Oh, my gosh, he now makes $70 ,000, and this isn't fair.

[434] And is that a possibility?

[435] Or he's unemployed?

[436] And now he's got to find a new job.

[437] Versus the known.

[438] There's so many elements.

[439] I know.

[440] I know that's where I'm trying to cut through it.

[441] You've got to let the money go.

[442] Y 'all had a good run for two years.

[443] You got the Golden Goose for two years.

[444] That's gone now.

[445] Every, the life y 'all had is now going to be over.

[446] And the cool thing is, is you get to pick which one is next?

[447] Is it a new one where he's a leader in Ohio, where it's going to be a little bit more expensive and it's going to take you a little bit longer to be fully debt -free with the house?

[448] Cool.

[449] Or are you going to stay there and you're going to make a little bit less money?

[450] It's going to take you a little bit longer to pay off your house.

[451] But you have friends and connections and family and whatever else is going on in Harrisburg.

[452] Cool.

[453] But you're skirting the real issue.

[454] The real question here is, do you all want to do life in Ohio together?

[455] Do you want to do life in Harrisburg?

[456] Or he had a dream of being a part of the federal government after living in that dream for 10 years and getting moved and shifted and pushed around every two years it's just not good for the family so we're going to get a new dream but you keep wanting to make this about $2 ,000 here and $7 ,000 over here and it's just not that's on the fringes you're not dealing with the core question right is that fair yeah I mean we've known about this for a year that this was coming and so we've talked about every aspect in every scenario and we feel like there's possibilities here and there's support at home and so So we're just torn 50 -50.

[457] Where'd you grow up?

[458] My kids are open.

[459] I've lived in the same zip code my whole life.

[460] In Pennsylvania?

[461] Yes.

[462] Okay.

[463] So does it scare you to leave?

[464] A little bit, yeah.

[465] Is there a little bit?

[466] That would terrify me. Are you excited at all about the prospect of like, oh, this is a new adventure for us?

[467] Or is it all just sort of like, ugh?

[468] I'm just, I'm torn right down the middle.

[469] Here's where I go.

[470] You can make both of these scenarios be wonderful.

[471] Yep.

[472] You could have a great attitude and go, you know what, this is going to be a new adventure.

[473] It's going to be fun.

[474] We're going to be making more money.

[475] Sure, we'll have to find a new house, cost of living.

[476] They're going to cover a lot of that, and it's going to be great.

[477] We'll get the house paid off.

[478] Here's our new goal.

[479] And you live a great life in Ohio.

[480] We're going to get into a homeschool consortium, and I'm going to make a bunch of new friends, and it's going to be awkward and weird, but I'm going to go do this because it's going to be a blast.

[481] I'm going to make some new friends.

[482] Or you stay and you deal with whatever consequences come with that.

[483] Whether it be unemployment, a dip in pay, and we slow down our goals here, I think either way, you just have to be okay with whatever's next.

[484] based on the decision you make and what you choose to do with that decision and can we just also this is kind of a cool thing what are the chances that within the next two to three years something else gets moved or shifted or changed just based on track record well this is so this would be the first time they moved um there this is supposed to be the permanent location for this now because technically Harrisburg is even in the district that they're at so it didn't make sense So they're moving.

[485] This is supposed to be it.

[486] It's not like it happens often.

[487] Okay.

[488] There's an election coming up in November.

[489] I just, as far as like stability and federal government stuff, I just, you're inside of it, so you have a better insight than I do.

[490] I just, I think y 'all can make a decision to move to Ohio and put two years on the calendar, 24 months.

[491] And if it's miserable, you're all going to move.

[492] or chances are you all going to get moved anyway or there's going to be some new something or other I imagine his ceiling is higher moving into a supervisor role too right?

[493] Yeah.

[494] So we've got to also think about what that does for our financial future.

[495] Right.

[496] I know, but listen to me on this side, Brittany, as two guys who have worked really hard and have quote unquote earned positions, which that's a whole other language conversation we could have later, I want my wife to be whole and happy.

[497] My life isn't just about, what I've earned professionally.

[498] It's about the life my wife and I are creating and the life George and Whitney are creating.

[499] And so he can quote unquote earn any job he wants.

[500] But if his wife longs to be somewhere else, no job is worth that.

[501] So I think you have to sit down and be honest and say, I want to go and I'm going to go all in on this.

[502] I'm going to go 100 % or I don't want to go.

[503] I really want to stay here.

[504] Make peace with whatever decision you do make.

[505] And then go make a good time out of it.

[506] This is the Ramsey show.

[507] So here's a quick math refresher.

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[513] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[514] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, AAA 825, 5225.

[515] Let's go out to Dallas, Texas and talk to Alex.

[516] Hey, Alex, what's going on?

[517] Hey guys, how's it going?

[518] Outstanding, brother, what's up?

[519] So my wife and I about to are going to wrap up baby step three in about a month, month and a half.

[520] And so as we look forward, we are sort of split between saving up for a house or maybe saving up to start a business.

[521] Exciting.

[522] What are you guys doing now for work?

[523] So right now I work in HR for an electricity provider and she works in HR compliance for an auditor.

[524] Beautiful.

[525] Love in HR.

[526] We love to see it.

[527] Okay, what's your household income?

[528] About 1 .45 pre -tax.

[529] Amazing.

[530] And what is the business you want to start?

[531] We want to start a coffee card business, essentially serving coffee to weddings.

[532] Most likely on the weekends, we wouldn't like to let go of our weekday jobs.

[533] Okay.

[534] And what is it going to cost to start this business?

[535] We're estimating probably like 20, 25.

[536] For the actual cart itself?

[537] For the entire thing.

[538] Cart, espresso machine, and, you know, the essentially initial investment.

[539] Okay.

[540] And how long have you guys been married?

[541] We're about to hit two years in August.

[542] Fun.

[543] And you're renting right now.

[544] What is the urgency to buy a house in Dallas, Texas?

[545] Is that feasible?

[546] That's the thing.

[547] Like, when we look at what we can afford with our budget, we either have to buy something that is a little bit on the old.

[548] older side when it comes to a home, or we would have to go way off into either east or west too far from our jobs.

[549] And yeah, it would make our commute a little too long, in our opinion.

[550] Okay.

[551] Well, I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

[552] I think you can start to attack both.

[553] And so one thing I would do is set a down payment goal and then make sure you guys are sticking to that.

[554] And on the other side, any leftover money, because we're not going to put 100 % of our margin toward that, is let's start saving up for this coffee cart to pay cash for.

[555] for it.

[556] How much margin will you guys have to throw every month toward these goals once you're out of Baby Step 3?

[557] And you're investing 15%.

[558] After investing 50%, we'd be looking at maybe 2000, maybe $2 ,500.

[559] Okay.

[560] So let's say 25K a year.

[561] So one route you could go is, all right, for the first year, we're not going to save up for a house.

[562] We're going to continue renting.

[563] And in one year, we're going to have the money to start this coffee car business.

[564] it sounds like you're real excited about the coffee cart business and the house thing is like well we can push that down the road a little bit is that fair yeah yeah it just whenever we look at houses it just you know whenever we think about the investment it doesn't seem as exciting at the moment just with interest rates and again just our purchasing power right now is not uh it doesn't excite us at least from the houses that we've looked at that makes sense and george i had a buddy with time and um Alex I'm going to ask George a question on your behalf.

[565] It's more of a global question.

[566] I had a buddy one time, this is years ago.

[567] I was going back and forth whether I was going to buy a house or not buy a house.

[568] It was a small house.

[569] It's all I could afford and this and that.

[570] And I kept running these investment numbers.

[571] And it was like, well, if I rent here and then 36 months here, the math just never came out.

[572] And one day a buddy of mine who works in finance said real emphatically, dude buy your wife a home and i looked at him and i was like yeah but look at it and he interrupted me and he is the most r oi guy i know he said get your family a home and yes this will become an investment over time but that property that is your home is your home right it's where you anchor in and that sentiment was something i had never considered and it has since transformed everything I think about when it comes to buying real estate and homes, if you're buying real estate for investment properties, you buy investment for properties.

[573] That's awesome.

[574] But there's something about having a home that, in my opinion, after buying and selling houses and being married for over 20 years, that it transcends the spreadsheet.

[575] I like that.

[576] It transcends the spreadsheet.

[577] It's a place where the Deloni's anchor into.

[578] And we've had multiple of those.

[579] But this is where we come in and drop our shoulders.

[580] This isn't the, don't touch the counters, don't touch the walls, because this is an investment property, we're going to flip this and it rolls.

[581] This is a place where we do life, right?

[582] We make memories.

[583] It's where our home exists.

[584] And so is that a bad way to look at that?

[585] No, not at all.

[586] Okay.

[587] I just, you know, everyone's had different values and it sounds like Alex and his wife, they've been married two years.

[588] The home isn't the thing that they're like racing toward right now.

[589] Right.

[590] They have these, you know, while you're young before you have kids, let's start this coffee car business.

[591] Remember when we did that?

[592] So it feels like that's where you guys are leaning.

[593] And you can also, change your aim and go, right, we're going to get a condo in the next two years, and that's going to mean this much down payment, and we're going to use the coffee cart money to also throw with the down payment, which will speed up the process.

[594] So you can think about it as not separate things, but one thing that will help the other.

[595] Alex, have y 'all done the math?

[596] Like, I'm sure I've done on the back of a napkin, but have y 'all done, like, grown -up business math on this coffee cart business?

[597] What do you think you're going to make?

[598] We would expect to probably bring at least first year, I mean, we'd be looking around maybe a thousand, a thousand per event.

[599] If we're working one Saturday, I mean, that would be around 12 ,000.

[600] And again, we're not in a hurry to start this and, you know, go all off and quit our day jobs, but we're passionate about coffee and would like to start that.

[601] And maybe, you know, what we're thinking is that it could potentially give us more money to cut towards a down payment for a home.

[602] But Yeah, we've looked at the numbers, definitely in napkin math, but we should, we could probably dive in a little bit more.

[603] Well, in the, in the, I had a buddy who was really passionate about barbecue, really, I mean, was the best cook there was.

[604] And that passion became starting a restaurant.

[605] And being really passionate about barbecue was different than being a passionate restaurant here.

[606] Right.

[607] Right.

[608] And being really passionate about coffee, we love coffee, like sourcing it.

[609] We like making our own.

[610] We like share.

[611] with our friends, that's one thing.

[612] Running a business that's going to be all Friday nights and Saturday nights and Sundays for indefinitely, that's a different type of passion, right?

[613] And so I think it's just navigating which passion is the real passion.

[614] And as George said, in what order, right?

[615] When we look up in three years, do we want to have a thriving coffee cart business?

[616] And if that was to be true, how much money would make that thriving?

[617] Or do we want to have a home and what would that look like and where it would have to be in the DFW market which is chaos like every other market in America right now those are some great questions if you had to flip a coin Alex and you could have the coffee cart business of your dreams or a home what would you what would you pick right now oh man um I think the first thing that came to mind was a home and and uh John that's something that you know I think we've been so focused on like what will be a returner investment, right?

[618] What will be better for our money?

[619] But emotionally, maybe we haven't had, we haven't been having those conversations.

[620] I think we have a new conversation.

[621] Sit down with your wife and go, okay, what really is the priority right now?

[622] And can the coffee cart business wait?

[623] And can we do the coffee cart business sooner and cheaper?

[624] And instead, we just rent the espresso machine and we get a nice folding table with some cool decor around it.

[625] And we don't have to go buy a, you know, a mobile trailer for a coffee cart right now.

[626] And we'll do the $500 weddings instead of a $1 ,000 wedding.

[627] And start small.

[628] Maybe you do the first one for free for some friends and, you know, you take some cool pictures and put that on a little website and you just start small and start sooner while saving up for the down payment.

[629] I feel like that would give me more peace from moving toward both.

[630] And George, I've got entrepreneur friends who would rather set themselves on fire than buy a house.

[631] Like they are too busy trying to start a thing and start a business.

[632] I don't have to worry about a house and the maintenance and the repairs.

[633] I'll sleep under a tree.

[634] I want to start a business.

[635] And so I love that Alex is going to shift the question from.

[636] what's the best investment?

[637] What's the best ROI?

[638] It's what's the life that we want to create two years into our new marriage?

[639] Do we want to be a entrepreneurial couple that's going to build businesses together and we're going to start with a coffee and then one day we're going to have a wedding planning business?

[640] Or do we want to look up in three years and be well in our way to paying off a kind of old house but it's ours and we'll fix it up over time or we'll upgrade when the time's right?

[641] That's a different set of questions and what are we passionate about and what's the best ROI right now?

[642] And I love getting to that, what's the real question behind?

[643] What's behind the spreadsheet?

[644] There you go.

[645] Yeah.

[646] That's a good question.

[647] Cheching.

[648] That's a good conversation.

[649] Every once in a while, people need to actually use a spreadsheet.

[650] I think everyone has those dreams.

[651] I want to do the house, but I also want XYZ.

[652] Or I'm really passionate about music.

[653] You don't have to quit everything, right?

[654] Or what does that mean?

[655] What's the question behind passion?

[656] I love coffee.

[657] I'm not trying to make money off of it.

[658] I'm not smart enough.

[659] You do consume enough to wear your heart one day.

[660] I got some cold room right down there.

[661] And we'll see it from space.

[662] That's it for this.

[663] Our America.

[664] We'll be back soon right here on The Ramsey Show.

[665] Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show.

[666] I'm John Deloney joined by my good friend George Camel, and we are taking your calls on money, building wealth, selling your house, on your emotional health, and your mental health, work you love, whatever you got going on in your life, we are here for you.

[667] AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[668] This show is made up of real people going through real challenges in real time.

[669] And George and I are going to sit with you and figure out what's the next right move.

[670] 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -25.

[671] Let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to Kelly.

[672] Hey, Kelly, what's up?

[673] Hey, what's up?

[674] What are we doing?

[675] I just had a couple questions about how to get out of credit card debt and kind of stay afloat with mine and my husband's fluctuating income.

[676] All right, bring it on.

[677] What's going on?

[678] So we have $2, $2 ,300 worth of credit card debt, which is a big hurdle that we have right now.

[679] However, it's super hard to pay it off, considering that our incomes fluctuate so much.

[680] He could bring home anywhere from $1 ,600 to $4 ,000 a month, and I can bring home anywhere from $1 ,400 to $1 ,600 a month.

[681] What do y 'all do?

[682] He works for a warehouse here in town, but the...

[683] The pay is competitive and it's based off of work and the attendance bonus can either double or cut your check in half depending on if you were there the entire time or if you had to miss a day for any reason.

[684] And I work for UPS.

[685] Okay, so if he shows up to work, he'll make $4 ,000?

[686] Yes, so among other things like it's based off of hourly, so it starts at $15 an hour and the attendance bonus is an extra $5 an hour.

[687] So why wouldn't, I don't understand why it's not like school.

[688] I mean, just stay there.

[689] Why would you lose that?

[690] Yeah, well, I mean, for instance, he missed a day a month ago because I had a call 911 for our son.

[691] Well, that's different.

[692] So we've worked to come pump out.

[693] Yeah, that's not the everyday occurrence, but that's a once in a year or two or five that would happen.

[694] Yes, but it still affects the attendance bonus.

[695] Okay.

[696] So if you miss one day, you lose the whole, month's worth of attendance bonus?

[697] It's paid every two weeks, but yes, it can cut your check and half, or it can double it depending on your attendance.

[698] Okay.

[699] Are you working full -time?

[700] I work part -time at UPS, and we have it set that way.

[701] I work in the mornings, and he works in the afternoon to late at night so that we can avoid having to pay for child care.

[702] Okay.

[703] How many kids do you have?

[704] We have two.

[705] All right.

[706] And outside of the $2 ,300 in credit card debt, what other debt do you have?

[707] He had to get a truck, and I say had to because his car before was just breaking on us constantly.

[708] We ended up spending like $2 ,000 to fix it in January, and that would have paid for three months' worth of a truck payment.

[709] It wasn't reliable, wasn't really paid.

[710] What's left on the truck loan?

[711] It's $23 ,000.

[712] So he chose to get a $23 ,000 truck loan.

[713] Okay, what else?

[714] And then I have $2 ,000 worth of student loan debt.

[715] Okay.

[716] And that's everything?

[717] Yes, that's everything.

[718] All right.

[719] So all in all, we're about, we'll call it $27 ,000 in debt.

[720] Yes.

[721] What's your household income for the year?

[722] Do you add it all up?

[723] I think when we filed our taxes, it was $67 ,000 last year.

[724] Okay.

[725] All right.

[726] So we're trying to get out of $27 ,000 worth of debt.

[727] We make $67.

[728] How much margin could you guys have if you got on a every dollar budget and you said, hey, anything that's not food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, we are not going to spend money on it.

[729] How much money could you have to throw at the debt?

[730] I mean, on a good month where he makes $4 ,000, probably $1 ,000 a month.

[731] Okay.

[732] So $1 ,000 a month times 27 months means your debt free in a little over two years, if you can throw $1 ,000, right?

[733] Yeah.

[734] Now what if we could find a way where we could spend less and make more in where we could put $2 ,000 a month?

[735] Then we could pay.

[736] off in about a year, right?

[737] Yeah.

[738] Now we're talking.

[739] That sounds a whole lot better to me if we're going to sacrifice.

[740] Right.

[741] So that's where the budget comes into play.

[742] We look at the budget and we say, here's how much we're going to bring in this month.

[743] Here's what our expenses are.

[744] Every other penny is going to go toward our smallest balanced debt.

[745] Have you tried that yet?

[746] We have.

[747] I did Financial Peace University when I was 14.

[748] Oh, my goodness.

[749] And every two years since.

[750] And so we're still on babysat number one.

[751] Like, we're just trying to get a savings account.

[752] And every time we get something put back, we get a flat tire.

[753] Or, you know, the catalytic converter goes out in the car or our room floods from the bathroom.

[754] Like, it's just one thing after another.

[755] And we cannot get past baby step number one.

[756] I know, but Kelly, you went out and bought a $20 ,000 -dollar truck.

[757] So you have enough to cover a car payment?

[758] No, y 'all did.

[759] Yes.

[760] Y 'all did.

[761] unless he has just gone rogue and that's a whole other issue you got to address.

[762] Did he do this behind your back?

[763] No. I advise not to.

[764] I advise if he was going to get a car and did be something more affordable.

[765] George, I don't want to put you on blast, but your Tesla didn't cost.

[766] George is a millionaire and he doesn't drive a car that expensive.

[767] Again, my truck isn't near that expensive.

[768] I want you to hear a say Like Anytime a guy says I had to buy a truck He is lying Unless he is like a lineman Anytime he convinces his wife That he had to buy a truck He's an amazing salesman But here's the thing Like At some point we have to decide That life's not gonna just happen To us anymore And it does take a while To get out of the cycle Kelly Because I'm telling you Like I remember when I was broke It was like Murphy wants to just live with me And go like hey buddy I know you're trying to get out of debt but here's a little emergency, have fun with this.

[769] And at some point we have to go, no longer are we going to let life control us?

[770] We're going to have agency and autonomy over what happens next.

[771] And that might mean we sell the truck.

[772] And here's a deeper issue.

[773] I am not going to work at a place that if I have to go take my son to a hospital, that I lose half of my income for the month.

[774] I refuse.

[775] I'm not going to be held hostage like that.

[776] We live in a really small town.

[777] It's one of the best jobs that are here.

[778] but he is still applying for other jobs.

[779] Okay, good, because I don't want to be held hostage that way.

[780] I'd rather work at Walmart throwing boxes for $20 an hour.

[781] That's stable.

[782] And it's stable.

[783] It will always be there.

[784] And you might not want to say I work at Walmart, but I tell you what, the job's going to keep being there, and they're going to keep paying you $20, and they're going to pay you overtime if you keep working hard, and you can always count on that.

[785] But your original call is how do we even get out of debt when our income fluctuates by 50 %?

[786] in certain weeks or certain months.

[787] Yeah.

[788] And you need stability as much as you need more money.

[789] Do you have, you live in a small town, do you have anybody that can watch your kids for a few hours a day?

[790] My friend from Missouri just moved in, and she's helped out a little bit.

[791] So we also do like Walmart delivery.

[792] We do DoorDash.

[793] I bake on the side for extra income, but here lately it's only making up from what he's lost in attendance bonuses.

[794] Okay.

[795] Well, the deal with a regular income is in that budget, if you have a regular income, for anyone listening, you're going to start with the four walls, food, utility, shelter, transportation.

[796] That gets paid first.

[797] If you make more than that, then we're going to cover the rest of the bills that need to get paid.

[798] But luxuries are out until this debt is gone.

[799] And I think he needs to strongly consider selling this truck and driving a beater truck for now, because we've got to swallow our pride while we're getting our family to stability.

[800] And that's going to hurt.

[801] He's not going to like it.

[802] And I hope he doesn't come fight me because I'm sure he could take me in a fight.

[803] So if he asked, John said it.

[804] I'll say it.

[805] Sell the truck, man. Your family's stability is way more important than looking fancy driving down the road.

[806] This is The Ramsey Show.

[807] I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[808] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[809] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life.

[810] insurance.

[811] When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills.

[812] I'm going to eat next week.

[813] Yeah.

[814] In the middle of all that grief.

[815] Like it's just, it is.

[816] It's terrible.

[817] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[818] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[819] And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[820] It doesn't cost much.

[821] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[822] You got to say it out loud and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[823] The cost of stinking pizza.

[824] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[825] That's 800 -356 -4282 or go to Xander .com.

[826] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

[827] One of the greatest ways you can support your neighbors, making sure they get financial information that can change their life.

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[830] You don't even have to be that weird.

[831] All you have to do is like the show, subscribe to the show, leave a five -star review, and it kicks the show up in the algorithms of the YouTube's and the podcasts and wherever else you consume this show.

[832] And it puts it in front of more people.

[833] More people get the life -changing wisdom of, uh, don't spend more than you make.

[834] Or the life -changing wisdom of, I don't buy a house or a car that you can't afford.

[835] And don't wait on the government to bail you out.

[836] Just wild.

[837] new -fangled wisdom like that.

[838] Controversial.

[839] Controversial.

[840] Highly controversial.

[841] All that and more.

[842] How dare you?

[843] AAA 825 -5 -225.

[844] Let's roll out to Minneapolis and talk to the great and powerful Lance.

[845] Hey, Lance.

[846] Hey, man. How's going?

[847] Great.

[848] What's up?

[849] Not a whole lot.

[850] Just a couple questions.

[851] Been listening to you guys for a few months.

[852] I like and agree with everything, but I'm in a weird situation because I can't get past baby step six because I don't own a home.

[853] We've been renting, my wife and I've been married for seven and a half years and we've been renting for seven and a half years.

[854] We were kind of waiting for house prices to go down and they never did.

[855] So I ended up starting a business with my sister.

[856] She lives in Iowa and we buy, I bought like three condos with her that are rentals.

[857] And I also bought a place with her down in Yuma, Arizona.

[858] They winter there.

[859] And so I have four paid for income producing properties.

[860] I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in the bank.

[861] My wife and I both make a good income.

[862] She makes around 100 grand.

[863] I make around 100 grand.

[864] I'm self -employed.

[865] She has a 401k that she pays 6%.

[866] And the company matches 6%.

[867] So we're sitting in a good spot.

[868] Here's my dilemma.

[869] I want to continue to grow by rental properties.

[870] I want to buy like a duplex, move into half of it, pay it off in a couple years or less, and then buy our dream home.

[871] She, every house I show her, she doesn't want to live with anybody.

[872] She doesn't want to rent out any part of it.

[873] And the median house price in Minneapolis, St. Paul, we live on the outskirts, It's probably close to 400 ,000.

[874] Right now we rent, and we get a great deal.

[875] We probably live in a $4 ,500 ,000 house, and we pay $21 .50 a month, which isn't terrible.

[876] It's not breaking the bank.

[877] We're able to save every month, and obviously I'm able to grow my rentals.

[878] But I know that I'm sitting here wasting time paying that $2 ,100 every month.

[879] Lance, can I say something controversial?

[880] Yeah, I'm about to say, too.

[881] You want to grow your rentals more than you want to grow your marriage.

[882] Get your wife a home.

[883] Like, when is she going to, you've been married eight years.

[884] Get your wife a home.

[885] I told her ten.

[886] I said, at ten years, you buy whatever house you want.

[887] But you guys have the money.

[888] Get her a home today, today.

[889] I think she wins.

[890] Okay, what kind of house does she want?

[891] Let's talk about the house she wants.

[892] Hold on, hold on.

[893] This is more fun.

[894] I know she does.

[895] But you are caring for four other families more than your own.

[896] What are your, what are your properties worth altogether?

[897] together?

[898] So they're condos in Iowa.

[899] They're worth around 90 grand a piece.

[900] Okay.

[901] And the one in Arizona, we just bought it for 130, but that one's probably, I think we're coming into it with a little bit equity, maybe 10, 15 ,000.

[902] So you have over half a million dollars in investment properties?

[903] Well, it's, I got half of a half a million dollars.

[904] So my, my sister or husband over the other half.

[905] So I have a few hundred thousand, it's probably two 30 to 250.

[906] And how much do you have in cash?

[907] 200 plus and you would be uncomfortable putting down 200 ,000 on a 500 ,000 home yeah because the 300 ,000 at that interest rate is still looking at like a $2 ,800, $3 ,000 payment what's your take home pay after taxes but before other deductions like investing in health care what would your take home pay be um so you'll make $200 ,000 a year Yeah, it's probably like $9 ,000 a month.

[908] Okay, let's say it's $10 ,000 a month.

[909] We'll take 25 % of that that's going to go toward the mortgage.

[910] So $2 ,500, let's say is the max, right?

[911] Well, toward the mortgage.

[912] Yes.

[913] I don't know what the math works out to at $300 ,000.

[914] Probably $25, $2 ,800.

[915] Yeah.

[916] Well, all I'm saying is you go fine.

[917] Now we know, okay, our goal is $2 ,500 payment on a 15 -year fixed rate mortgage.

[918] That's what we're going to do.

[919] Well, now we have the home price and down payment numbers to go, all right, if we put $200 ,000 down, we can afford a $420 ,000 home.

[920] And so it's less about Lance's emotions versus her emotions, and it's based on a parameter we'd agreed on.

[921] And then we're going to do it when the math makes sense.

[922] And by the way, retirement and taxes take up $80 ,000?

[923] Well, you're bringing home more than $10 a month.

[924] I'm a, well, she does pay a lot towards her HSA.

[925] She kind of taps that out, so we have that.

[926] and then I'm self -employed.

[927] So some months I bring home a lot, and other months I bring home not as much.

[928] What about the rental income?

[929] Is that not counting?

[930] Yeah, the rental, no, that's not counting the rental income.

[931] I didn't even put that in it.

[932] Well, where's that going?

[933] The rental income right now is probably around 1 ,500 a month, my portion that I bring home.

[934] Have you done the math?

[935] Where is that money going to?

[936] Hold on, have you done the math on how much this divorce is going to cost you?

[937] It's going to cost you half of everything.

[938] you own.

[939] I'm just saying, if we were patient for two years, we would have another duplex pay for.

[940] And then it's going to be, but babe, babe, I just got an amazing deal on this investment property, so I'm going to put the money towards that.

[941] But next year, babe, it's going to be your year.

[942] I already tried that.

[943] That doesn't work.

[944] No, get your wife a home.

[945] Tell your wife, hey, listen, take her out to dinner tonight with some flowers and tell her, I want you to have a spreadsheet and I want you put on the, on the table.

[946] And if you're really romantic, I want you to hang it over like the little candle and let it just burn up.

[947] Burn it.

[948] And let the spreadsheet burn up and say, I love you.

[949] And I have turned our marriage into a ROI.

[950] And it should be an I love you.

[951] Ooh, that sounds kind of good.

[952] I'm driving a 2003 regular cab Chevy pickup with 181 ,000.

[953] Hold on, hold on.

[954] You hear this, America.

[955] This is America.

[956] Listen.

[957] It's the world's smallest violin.

[958] Nobody cares.

[959] What does she drive?

[960] Lance?

[961] Buy yourself a car.

[962] You make $200 ,000 a year.

[963] What is she driving?

[964] She said I could buy a car, I just can't buy a duplex.

[965] Oh, geez.

[966] Well, you know why?

[967] Because somebody else lives in there with you.

[968] Oh, my gosh, you watch way too much Instagram.

[969] Dude, get your wife a home.

[970] I was going to let her listen to this episode, but now I can't.

[971] We'll make sure she listens.

[972] Hey, it's already in the record, so when y 'all go to court, it's going to get.

[973] plate anyway.

[974] Lancy, you know what you can't put an R -O -I on?

[975] The joy on her face when you tell her, honey, we're going to buy a house.

[976] Not for someone else.

[977] Let's go shopping.

[978] For us.

[979] Let's go house shopping.

[980] No, even better, let her go house shopping.

[981] You have been house shopping.

[982] Because you're going to make it miserable.

[983] You're going to go, no way.

[984] I can find a much cheaper house.

[985] Let's go to Tile Depot.

[986] Let's go to the Tile Depot outlet warehouse and see if we can get that same tile for...

[987] Dude, just get your wife a house.

[988] Get house.

[989] You have done an amazing job.

[990] You're crushing.

[991] How old are you?

[992] 45.

[993] Amazing.

[994] It's amazing.

[995] She's never owned a home?

[996] So I don't want to do three.

[997] See, you're laughing.

[998] You know how expensive divorce is.

[999] All right, get her a house.

[1000] Get her a house.

[1001] Has she ever owned a house?

[1002] Nope.

[1003] And she's 38 years old.

[1004] Only the rentals.

[1005] Yeah, she's never owned one.

[1006] And you guys make $200 grand, and you have $200 grand in the bank.

[1007] Are you seeing what I'm seeing?

[1008] My tax guy told me to buy a house every year.

[1009] Wow.

[1010] You know why?

[1011] Because he knows how expensive divorce is too.

[1012] He's seen some things, Lance.

[1013] Oh, man, we're having fun with you, Lance.

[1014] I want to see you win.

[1015] I want to see your marriage win.

[1016] And part of that, which is hard for guys like us, Lance, because we love doing the math and the ROI.

[1017] But you know who doesn't care about that?

[1018] Is the person who loves you the most in this whole wide world?

[1019] They want a great life with Lance, and at some point they just don't care about another.

[1020] investment property that'll bring in another 300 bucks a month.

[1021] They just want a place to call their own.

[1022] And at the end of the day, often people want to know, do you love me more than golf?

[1023] Do you love me more than your business?

[1024] Do you love me more than the spreadsheet?

[1025] Do you love me more than the good deal on the duplex that we can move in and someone else can live next door to us and listen to house music all night long?

[1026] Whatever the thing is.

[1027] Buy our house and you better let her listen to this episode, my friend.

[1028] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1029] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

[1030] Listen, the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a monthly budget.

[1031] I still don't like doing budgets, and it's still the only way to keep me on the rails.

[1032] George loves budgets.

[1033] I live to just track the next transaction.

[1034] I feel like your heart rate just goes up 10 beats a...

[1035] Sometimes I just look at it.

[1036] I should admire it.

[1037] Like I heard you the other day, and you were just like, oh, man. And I looked over and like, you had your budget out.

[1038] You're just like, all excited.

[1039] Anyway, the best way to make the most of your money is by creating a sticking to a monthly budget, whether you like it or not.

[1040] Every dollar makes it simple to plan, spending, track expenses and save for what matters most.

[1041] All of this is in an easy -to -use app that fits into your busy lifestyle.

[1042] Every dollar has saved my feeble attempts at making really complicated 75 tabs spreadsheets.

[1043] It kind of calls out all my bullcrab and all my excuses and it just puts it right there in front of my face.

[1044] one keystroke and your formula got blown up.

[1045] And it's like, hashtag ref. And I'm like, I don't know what's happening.

[1046] Give me out of the spreadsheet.

[1047] Well, no, that works, but it just allows me to be like, well, you know, like in five years, if we do this, we triple stay with double stamped.

[1048] Just how much did you spend this month versus what you said you were going to?

[1049] Can I tell you anyone, any spouse that uses the spreadsheet?

[1050] Your spouse doesn't want to look at it.

[1051] You're the only one in the family versus every dollar.

[1052] It's loaded up on your phone.

[1053] You can both just tap in.

[1054] You have the accountability.

[1055] No one has to look at a spreadsheet again.

[1056] And there is some comfort slash accountability, depending on which side of this you fall on, that if you and you and your spouse tie yourselves to the same every dollar account or connect with the every dollar account, when you spend, she knows.

[1057] When she spends, you know.

[1058] And you don't have to blame each other.

[1059] You can just call your budget Derek and say, oh, classic Derek, am I right?

[1060] That's not really how it goes.

[1061] He said we can't.

[1062] Goes in my house.

[1063] No?

[1064] No. Just Sheila says.

[1065] John stop.

[1066] Yes, exactly.

[1067] So download every dollar for.

[1068] free it doesn't cost any money in the app store or the google play store is that right the google play store yeah that sounded right have you ever been to the google play store you made it sound wrong but i think it's definitely right go to the google play store or the app store today right now and download every dollar for free let's go out to rochester new york and talk to mitch hey what's up mitch hey guys how we doing outstanding brother what's up So my wife and I are drowning a little bit in debt.

[1069] Tell us about it, man. Yeah, so we both have advanced degrees.

[1070] We're looking at about 400 ,000 in student debt, and then about 200 ,000 on a mortgage.

[1071] And essentially, the interest on my loan comes out to about 1 ,500 every month.

[1072] kind of the thing that's slowing us down to make any progress.

[1073] So it's kind of putting us in a paycheck -to -paycheck situation.

[1074] Are you guys using both degrees?

[1075] Yeah, yeah.

[1076] We're both practicing chiropractors.

[1077] Awesome.

[1078] What's the household income?

[1079] About 120.

[1080] That feels low.

[1081] Are both of you working full -time?

[1082] Yeah, we're both early in our careers.

[1083] So there's definitely room for growth.

[1084] But, yeah, we're still in the first kind of, Are you working for another practice right now?

[1085] Yeah, both of us are at separate practices as associates.

[1086] Can you work on do private practice on Saturdays and Sundays or is that a violation of your contract?

[1087] Yeah, that's a no -go.

[1088] So I hate to tell you this, but as a guy who's got advanced degrees who ran up a bunch of student debt, you're going to have to do the job that you get to feel prestigious about and you're going to have to do a bunch of other work on the side.

[1089] Because that $1 ,500, dude, that's net neutral, right?

[1090] You're spinning your wheels and you're going nowhere.

[1091] Right.

[1092] How did this happen, man?

[1093] How'd you all borrow 400 grand to be chiropractors?

[1094] Well, so tuition is about 150 or so.

[1095] So, you know, between that and living expenses, that's kind of where it adds up.

[1096] But how'd you end up taking jobs for $60 ,000 apiece?

[1097] I could tuck your ear off all day long.

[1098] the ins and outs of why Cairo's don't get paid.

[1099] But New York tends to be one of the bad states for it.

[1100] Was it time for all the move?

[1101] Maybe.

[1102] We just bought a house.

[1103] Yeah, I know, but you owe more than half a million dollars in debt.

[1104] Oh, yeah.

[1105] And you know that, but I just want to say it out loud, and you make 60 grand a year.

[1106] Right.

[1107] That's a scary reality, right?

[1108] Oh, yeah.

[1109] So this is going to look different.

[1110] Now, our friend Jade Warshaw, heard her husband, Sam Warshaw, they paid off $468 ,000 in seven years.

[1111] So your journey is going to look more like that than the average baby stepper who's like, I pay it off my debt in two years.

[1112] So we need to figure out what it looks like to at least pay off your debt with an aggressive timeline.

[1113] Let's say if it's seven years, that's 57K a year, which means all of one of your gross incomes would need to be going toward the debt, which I don't think you guys can do right now, right?

[1114] With your minimum payments, your mortgage.

[1115] so we need to figure out how to get the income up in order to pay off this debt in an aggressive timeline.

[1116] And the only way to do that is by spending less and making more.

[1117] So one option is you sell the house, you rent to alleviate at least that mortgage weighing you guys down, and you go work every single weekend and one of you's working one night, the other one's switching off.

[1118] Do you guys have kids?

[1119] Yeah, we got one little guy.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] And what's child care look like?

[1122] $300 a week.

[1123] Okay.

[1124] That's not too bad for daycare.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] Okay.

[1127] So that's just going to be part of our budget.

[1128] Are you guys doing an every dollar budget right now?

[1129] We're kind of on the start of that right now.

[1130] Okay.

[1131] I'll help you out.

[1132] I'll give you every dollar premium so it connects to your bank account, has some really cool extra features like paycheck planning, financial roadmap.

[1133] So hang on the line when we're done and we'll gift that to you guys to help you on this journey and it will be a journey.

[1134] But the only way is we got to get this income way up.

[1135] in order to knock out, you know, 40, 50, 60 grand a year from these student loans instead of two grand a month.

[1136] But you even realize that 50 to 60 ,000 a year is the bare minimum, right?

[1137] Surprisingly, no. It gets a lot worse than that.

[1138] Tell me about it.

[1139] So, I mean, I've got colleagues who are making 20, 30 a year around the same area.

[1140] So how is that possible?

[1141] I pay my chiropractor.

[1142] How's it possible?

[1143] I wish I knew, but it seems to be the reality, unless you're in a separate state taking a salary.

[1144] A large part of it is a lot of our salaries based on volume.

[1145] So if you're seeing a lower number of patients earlier in your career, you're not making as much as, say, someone who's seeing double your volume.

[1146] But why would you sign up with a practice if they're not handing you clients?

[1147] That's what you trade, right?

[1148] You trade the full weight of the payment for a steady stream of clients.

[1149] Right.

[1150] Yeah, we're, bus specifically, we're a newer practice.

[1151] So everyone's growing.

[1152] I think there's definitely been some learning curves.

[1153] Is there another practice you could go join?

[1154] Did you sign a contract where you have to stay a certain amount of time or what?

[1155] yeah i'm locked in here and i feel pretty passionate about the people i'm with um like i said i do think there is room for growth um and i i know there's a handful of other practices in the area um that i've looked at might not have been a better fit for um so part of it i guess comes down to my morals and how i'm willing to practice no i don't think that's it man i don't think you're man maybe i'm crazy Mitch but and again i've just i just spent my whole whole career sitting with medical professionals.

[1156] I don't think you're, I don't think you're getting it.

[1157] You want to have, like, I've got these morals, man. You also have a moral responsibility to pay off your desk.

[1158] You have a moral responsibility to be a present father in your home and a husband.

[1159] And you can't do that when you owe half a million dollars.

[1160] And there's this sense of, well, it's just the way this is in this town.

[1161] Well, then sometimes throughout human history, people have gotten on a boat because the farm wasn't producing and they went across the world right there's sometimes you have to get up and just go do a radical thing if and if it's going to grow then somebody's going to have to just do wild things like work late at night and we're the only practice open on saturdays and sundays and we work from 4 p .m. until midnight because that's when people get off of work you're going to have to get radical about developing a different kind of practice so y 'all can make more money than these other just meandering practices in the neighborhood and so if you're going to go do this man you got to go all in like your life depends on it because it does you can't just go oh it only make 60 grand it's just the market in this area that kind of ad like it just is you know like i can tell you why they don't pay no go make it happen go make it happen there's got to be a sense of urgency and almost not panic but almost panic i'm going to go make this happen for me and my family let's go welcome back to the ramsie show um george john i had a little bit of a bad attitude on that last call.

[1162] I could tell you.

[1163] You got a little fired up, but I know, I also know as someone, you've experienced, you know, high levels of student loan debt, getting advanced degrees.

[1164] And the heartbreaking part is the ROI.

[1165] It almost feels like, I mean, they're literally getting scammed.

[1166] To go $400 ,000 into student loan debt to make $60 or $100 boggles my mind.

[1167] Yeah, I get that.

[1168] And here's the challenge.

[1169] I think the, um, I think when you graduate with a advanced.

[1170] disagree, there's just this feeling that now the world is going to open up to me. And I've experienced it a couple of times, right?

[1171] Like, now I can kind of do whatever I want.

[1172] And then you realize, like, oh, no, math still applies.

[1173] And my quote unquote following my passion, if there's not a market for it, there's not a market for it, right?

[1174] And I want to do what I want to do in this particular geographical location.

[1175] Well, those jobs only pay this.

[1176] So you can't.

[1177] And when you owe money, especially you owe, that much money, what you want to do and what you're passionate about goes out the window because you owe that much money.

[1178] It's what you have to do now.

[1179] Where you want to be, I want to be by family.

[1180] I want to have, I just want to stay at home.

[1181] I want to homeschool.

[1182] All that goes out the window because you first, before you had these principles and values, you hit yourself to that wagon, which is, in this case, half a million dollars, right?

[1183] And it's heartbreaking because I could tell somebody like Mitch wants to help his community.

[1184] If you're around good chiropractors, There's some scam ones.

[1185] They're scam every profession.

[1186] You're at good carpractors?

[1187] Their whole life is dedicated to giving people their life back, helping them move, helping them not be in pain, helping to get back to work, all those things.

[1188] They're amazing to be around.

[1189] They're inspiring.

[1190] But man, when you're so constriction on what you can actually do in your life, just because of how much you owe, you can hear it in their voices.

[1191] It's just so terrifying, right?

[1192] And I wish there was better coaching on the front end, but on the back end, man, it is what it is.

[1193] now we have to live in reality and make some really hard choices.

[1194] But when you can, you know, you can get a full -time job at being a manager of a local fast food joint for the same amount you can make after a doctorate degree in some of these professions, you got to weigh that, right?

[1195] That's tough.

[1196] Well, I hope everyone who is about to get a degree, you have a kid, you're a parent, go watch Borrowed Future, our award -winning documentary.

[1197] It's free on YouTube.

[1198] It's about 88 minutes.

[1199] And the stories in there, there's some heartbreaking ones, and there's some inspiring ones.

[1200] I remember the dentist who had a million dollars into debt and hearing him the tears and the shriek of pain in his voice is haunting.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] And it makes me go, let's triple check and make sure this is going to be worth, the juice is worth to squeeze on this.

[1203] All right.

[1204] Today's question of the day comes from Beth in Indiana.

[1205] Here's what Beth has to say.

[1206] Our oldest daughter ran away after high school graduation to live an alternative lifestyle that we don't approve of.

[1207] She hasn't spoken to us in three years, though we've tried to contact her.

[1208] We have some savings and life insurance, about $5 million, and need to make a will, as we have nothing in place right now.

[1209] We have three other children that are responsible and trying to live God -honoring lives.

[1210] Would you include a child in your will that refuses to have a relationship with you?

[1211] We aren't quite sure how to handle this.

[1212] We love her dearly, of course, but also don't want to support her lifestyle.

[1213] Is there a fair way to deal with this?

[1214] I mean, there's a lot of...

[1215] I don't really know what she's talking about here.

[1216] so um you don't agree with your child's decisions morally ethically financially whatever they're doing the relationship is strained do you still leave them in the will i mean i guess it depends on how you look at your will is your will a um a reward for a job a childing well done right Is it an investment in the future of your legacy?

[1217] Like, what are you using your will for?

[1218] And I think that's question number one.

[1219] Question number two is it doesn't sound like Beth has understood that she left, the child left them.

[1220] And the kid has said, for whatever reason, I don't want to be a part of y 'all's life anymore.

[1221] I don't want to talk to y 'all anymore.

[1222] And I'm assuming that means I don't want your money either.

[1223] I don't want anything to do with y 'all.

[1224] you all have said you don't approve of me you don't you don't accept me so i'm out um and so in that case um as far as i'm concerned the will is is second best i always want my kid to know you can come to my home and i love you yeah okay here i'm between a rock and a hard place here because on one hand i'm like okay don't put them in the will that's your prerogative you're not a bad person no and on the other hand i'm just like thinking of the prodigal son's story of you know the dad watching his son coming over the hill and he's he's so excited he's throwing the party the feast my son is home.

[1225] We don't know that there's going to be a happy ending like that here.

[1226] We just don't know.

[1227] But I want to have that open -handed spirit that says, this is not a one -and -done final thing.

[1228] Right.

[1229] And that you're still fighting for this relationship.

[1230] But you're also not going to chase them down, you know, and shove it down their throat.

[1231] So I hope the relationship's prepared.

[1232] I do.

[1233] There's a beautiful happy ending and she gets back in the will.

[1234] But I don't think it really matters at this point because the relationship does not exist.

[1235] I can just tell you, George, I cannot count dozens maybe hundreds but for sure dozens of conversations I've had with parents over the years of college students and young adults who have come back in older years and said I would do anything to have those conversations back to have my judgments back because I just want my kid and sometimes we go to war over I told you not to borrow money so you don't come home until you have that credit card or whatever else thing you right my three kids are great but it's you because you whatever i'm telling you man the number of families that have come back and said i would do anything to have those conversations back and let my kid know that i love them i don't agree with them i think you're a knucklehead as long as you're safe right if you're not being safe that's a whole other conversation right um or if you're struggling with addiction that's a whole their conversation and that's the part we don't know what is this alternative lifestyle is she blowing these money on drugs I have no idea.

[1236] But here's a deal.

[1237] When it comes to your will, it's your money.

[1238] You decide what you want to use it for and what this, your $5 million is for.

[1239] I want to tell all parents out there, don't use your inheritance to buy love from your kids or buy compliance.

[1240] The part that irked me was that we have three other children that are responsible and trying to live God honoring lives.

[1241] Right.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] I'm like, well, now it's a competition of morals and who makes mom the proudest, which that part feels weird to me. So it's tough.

[1244] It's personal.

[1245] It's a very personal thing.

[1246] I can't decide for you.

[1247] I just know I'd want to be open -handed trying to repair the relationship.

[1248] And who knows how much money you'll actually have when you, you know, hit the dusty trail.

[1249] Celebrities have said, you know, Steve Harvey's like, me and your mom are going to spend every dime we got.

[1250] You ain't getting none of this.

[1251] You know, that's fine.

[1252] You know, Guy Fieri said the same thing.

[1253] He's like, I'm going to spend all the money.

[1254] I'm going to make sure that you're a responsible adult who knows how to make their own wealth, but I'm going to spend what I've made or give it away to charities I believe in, you know?

[1255] So I don't think there's a right or wrong way to do it, but I do think you've got to But let's go to this question.

[1256] Would you include a child in your will that refuses to have a relationship with you?

[1257] It happens, but it's very rare that that is a one -sided choice.

[1258] Usually somebody chooses to not have a relationship with their parents because their parents have put stipulations on that relationship that they are opting out of, right?

[1259] it's actually a kid putting up a boundary saying if this is your requirement for you to love me I get the message I'm out right and so um what I include a child that in my will that refuses to have a relationship with me depending on whether that money would contribute to their premature death um I would yes because it's about me um loving my kid but that's me and my hope is I never get to the situation and I know it happens all I mean it's been my whole career but This is heartbreaking.

[1260] What about you, George?

[1261] I got a nine -month -old.

[1262] It's heartbreaking.

[1263] Think about not having a relationship.

[1264] She just said, dad -da.

[1265] She said her first words the other day.

[1266] I'm like, I cannot imagine one day where she's like, I want nothing to do with you.

[1267] I would be so heartbroken.

[1268] I think the will would be the last thing on my mind at that point.

[1269] It's heartbreaking.

[1270] But even my son's one of the most amazing young men I know.

[1271] He's 14.

[1272] And I asked him recently, I said, Hey, as we're going into high school, when you reach age X, I want to take just you and me anywhere you want to go in the country.

[1273] Like anywhere, like, we're going to go on a father -son trip.

[1274] And he's like, actually, I just want to do stuff with my friends.

[1275] And I was like, I know, but like, we can go anywhere.

[1276] We can do anything.

[1277] And he's like, yeah, I just want to be with my friends.

[1278] And it was a knife to my soul.

[1279] And if I had said, well, then you don't.

[1280] And now I'm doing this, right?

[1281] I'm putting up this wall.

[1282] Then if you don't let me love you, like I want to love you, then you.

[1283] oh boy yeah right you become the child at that point that's exactly right then i start put stipulations on that instead of me going man that bums me out but cool man i know you love your friends and me you're having to reconcile that i'm raising young man who is going to separate from his dad over time it's tough parenthood man what a journey they didn't come in the manual on this one this is the ramsie show we'll be back shortly live from nashville tennessee this is the ramsie show i'm john deloney joined by george camp And we are taking your calls about your money, your wealth building the work that you love, your relationships, your mental and emotional health, just about everything.

[1284] 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[1285] A couple of opinionated guys.

[1286] We've got opinions for you.

[1287] That's me. I think that's us, but that's cool.

[1288] And we're great at grammar.

[1289] 8 -825 -5 -2 -25.

[1290] Let's go out to St. Louis, Missouri, and talk to...

[1291] J -O -E.

[1292] What's up, Joe?

[1293] Hi, how are you?

[1294] I'm outstanding, brother.

[1295] How are you?

[1296] I'm doing well, thank you.

[1297] You bet.

[1298] What's up?

[1299] So my situation, my wife and I have been aggressively paying off debt this year.

[1300] We had a plan to pay off all of our debt in 2024.

[1301] And the issue, though, that we're having kind of midway through the year.

[1302] Oh, Joe, we lost you.

[1303] Let's turn back on.

[1304] Joe we hear brother Joe you there Can you hear me There we go Alright now we're back Continue continue go ahead Hi sorry So I've got a couple of life changes coming up My wife and I were paying off debt And we just found out a A few weeks ago that we're expecting a baby Yay Thank you baby number five Whoa All right I take that back Just kidding no that's good That's awesome So and along with that, I'm looking in about a year to have a career change.

[1305] And so my question, I guess, is how aggressively should I continue pay off debt because I really want to pay off the debt this year?

[1306] However, I understand like the Stork Mode concept, but I feel like we may have enough income that we could do both.

[1307] So I'm just trying to figure out what priorities are.

[1308] Yeah, you're right about Stork Mode, for those listening wondering what the heck that is.

[1309] When you're having a baby and you're in baby step two, that's when it's okay to pause and just keep minimum payments, don't put anything extra, and just stack up cash in a savings account until mom and baby are home and healthy.

[1310] And so that's okay to do.

[1311] How much money do you guys have right now in the bank?

[1312] Barely any, and this is why I think we may have, I don't want to say maybe went too hard.

[1313] Earlier this month, I looked at my bank account and we had about $1 ,300, total.

[1314] So how long have you guys been living paycheck to paycheck like this?

[1315] Not basically this year, since we started paying off debt, all of our savings.

[1316] But have you been in debt since you've been married?

[1317] Not the entire time.

[1318] So we had all debts paid off a few years ago, but then both my cars were totaled.

[1319] And my family car and my personal car that I take to work.

[1320] So we then had to get new cars.

[1321] Then you walked to the dealership and said, Give me your most expensive cars.

[1322] Stat.

[1323] No, no, no. No. No, I was able to put a significant amount of money down.

[1324] I have one car paid off already.

[1325] Okay.

[1326] And the only debt we have left is $20 ,000 on a minivan.

[1327] All right.

[1328] So that's everything we got left.

[1329] So 28K on the minivan.

[1330] And when is baby due?

[1331] 20 ,000.

[1332] When's baby due?

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] Babies due end of January.

[1335] Okay.

[1336] So we have some time.

[1337] what's your household income?

[1338] About just north of 11 ,000 a month.

[1339] Oh, my goodness.

[1340] So why don't we get this van paid off in like three or four months?

[1341] Well, so, and this is like, this is the thing with saving up for a career change and the baby.

[1342] Why do you need to save up for the career change?

[1343] So I'm, my career, I'm an active duty military.

[1344] Okay.

[1345] And I, there's a possibility that with the career change, it could be involuntary career change just with a lack of promotion and separation and all that.

[1346] So what are you wondering?

[1347] You're speaking in code, Joe.

[1348] You're speaking in code.

[1349] Are you about to get laid off?

[1350] No. Well, actually, maybe.

[1351] Are you about to get discharged?

[1352] I could, yes.

[1353] Honorable or dishonorably?

[1354] Honorable.

[1355] honorably.

[1356] So it's just basically being passed up for promotion.

[1357] It's not dishonorable or anything, but there's a chance that it could happen.

[1358] If it does happen, it could happen as early as March of next year.

[1359] So I'm getting a little nervous about...

[1360] So what is the career change?

[1361] What are you wanting to do, exactly?

[1362] So I have an engineering degree, and I'm wanting to be an engineer.

[1363] Okay.

[1364] What does that have to do with you paying off the minivan?

[1365] in the next four months.

[1366] Well, basically, how aggressively I should be saving.

[1367] Don't save.

[1368] Because in Justin Falk.

[1369] Let's get priority straight.

[1370] Number one, let's get out of debt, and then let's stack up some cash for baby.

[1371] And my guess is, by the time babies here, you will be debt -free with a fully funded emergency fund.

[1372] And if I'm you, I'm doing six months, because you've got a whole lot of kiddos to take care of.

[1373] And think about this.

[1374] Right.

[1375] You're trading, paying this off, and going bananas, right?

[1376] paying this off, having five kids, or four kids, pregnant wife, you're trading, paying this $20 ,000 off for having no job, the potential, and this is anxious thinking, having the potential of no job and a $20 ,000 liability hanging around your neck.

[1377] Right, and I would definitely prefer not to do that.

[1378] Right.

[1379] Just having that cushion and not anxious about it.

[1380] When I get anxious, I create worst -case scenarios, and then I backfill them.

[1381] How realistic is this?

[1382] That I lose my job?

[1383] Yes.

[1384] It's, I'd say about 50 -50, honestly.

[1385] Is there anybody you can go sit down and ask?

[1386] No, because I'm waiting for promotion results to come out, and they keep that hush, hush.

[1387] Okay.

[1388] And so promotion, I've never heard of this, so you're teaching me live.

[1389] In your particular branch, you either.

[1390] get promoted, it's kind of like tenure in academics.

[1391] You get tenure or you get fired?

[1392] Right.

[1393] So if you, so if you get looked at, so you get looked at twice.

[1394] And if I were to get passed up for promotion a second time, I got passed up for promotion once.

[1395] Okay.

[1396] If I get passed up for promotion a second time, I have to be discharged.

[1397] How quickly?

[1398] Seven months after I get notified of that.

[1399] How many?

[1400] Seven months later.

[1401] Seven months after I get notified.

[1402] Okay.

[1403] Which I should be notified at end of August.

[1404] Right, so you've got plenty of time to make plans for what's next.

[1405] But right now, it sounds like we're ignoring the debt and the baby, like all the things that are really happening in reality today.

[1406] So here's my plan for you, Joe.

[1407] You ready for it?

[1408] Can you live off of them?

[1409] What are your monthly expenses total up to?

[1410] Fuel, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance, all of that for the family.

[1411] So my monthly expenses, it varies when my kids are in school.

[1412] Give me the average.

[1413] Okay, so average, I'd say.

[1414] it comes out to be about 5 ,000 a month.

[1415] Okay, hear me out.

[1416] If you do 6 ,000, you said you make 11.

[1417] So 5 ,000 a month means there should be if you do a budget, 6 grand a month.

[1418] Now, you do the math.

[1419] In about three and a half months, the van's paid off.

[1420] Am I correct?

[1421] Correct.

[1422] And then three and a half months later, we could have another 20 grand saved up.

[1423] And then the baby's here.

[1424] And then baby's here.

[1425] So think about that.

[1426] That could be a reality.

[1427] Come January, you're debt -free with an emergency fund, looking for engineering job.

[1428] And that means that's not like a good plan?

[1429] Right.

[1430] And that means when y 'all are buying back to school clothes, you're not going to go hog wild this year.

[1431] You're going to hang on with those four kids the best you can.

[1432] You're going to reuse some stuff, secondhand some stuff, Facebook marketplace some stuff.

[1433] Is that a deal?

[1434] No. Is that what might be in season for you guys this year?

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] And seven months making that kind of money is 70 grand.

[1437] That's a good landing pad for you to go be an engineer somewhere.

[1438] You're going to be all right my brother.

[1439] We'll be right back.

[1440] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, AAA 825, 5 -225.

[1441] George, this is happening.

[1442] Are you talking about what I think you're talking about?

[1443] I'm talking about that.

[1444] You, me, D. Money, Rachel, Jade.

[1445] A couple of thousand of our closest debt -free friends.

[1446] Ken Coleman and several thousand Ramseyites on a boat traveling the high seas, man. It doesn't feel real, but it's very real.

[1447] It's called the Live Like No One Else Cruise, and it's back.

[1448] It's happening March 22nd through the 29th of 2025.

[1449] So you've got plenty of time to make your plans and join us.

[1450] Seven -day cruise stops all through the Caribbean.

[1451] Turks and Caicos to St. Thomas, to Puerto Rico, the Bahamas.

[1452] Dude.

[1453] This is wild.

[1454] Didn't they used to sing a song about this?

[1455] Come on pretty mama, Key Largo.

[1456] Oh, yeah.

[1457] We're not going to Kokomo, are we?

[1458] I think if we sing any more, the FCC will take us down.

[1459] I think you're right.

[1460] But here's the deal.

[1461] The crew set sale in March of 2025.

[1462] And if you want to go, here's the deal.

[1463] You just need to put down a $600 deposit to secure your cabin.

[1464] So lock it in because this thing is going to sell out real soon.

[1465] And this is for those who have done the hard work.

[1466] They live like no one else.

[1467] They've become debt -free.

[1468] We want to celebrate with you.

[1469] And so we're going to do the largest debt -free scream ever done, I think, in the world.

[1470] I can't imagine a bigger group of people doing them who would scream at the same time.

[1471] But, yes, it's going to be the largest debt -free scream.

[1472] free scream of all time in human history ever.

[1473] So if you want more info, you can go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash crews.

[1474] You can see all of the special guests we're going to have on there, magicians, musicians, world -class chefs, singers, songwriters, John might sing.

[1475] George, we'll have a your somersault routine is world -class.

[1476] I think we need a Ramsey personality's karaoke night.

[1477] And that could be worth to take it.

[1478] I think a Ramsey personality talent show would be incredible.

[1479] I could probably find a talent between now and No, you can't.

[1480] But some people can.

[1481] That's fair.

[1482] It's going to be...

[1483] No, actually, Jade would destroy us all.

[1484] That's, yeah.

[1485] I'm not going to be singing on night.

[1486] I'm out on that.

[1487] I know.

[1488] So we're definitely out.

[1489] Nope, not doing that.

[1490] I'm legitimately pumped.

[1491] Turks and Kekos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas, and more.

[1492] We hope to see you there.

[1493] March 22nd through 29th, 2025.

[1494] $600 deposit.

[1495] That's it.

[1496] $600 bucks.

[1497] You can put it down.

[1498] Reserve your cabin.

[1499] They're going super fast.

[1500] Ramsey Solutions .com slash cruise.

[1501] C -R -U -I -S -E, not slash Rachel Cruz.

[1502] That's actually a good point.

[1503] Rampdesolution .com slash Cruz.

[1504] All right, let's go back out to Dallas, Texas, one of our favorite cities today, and talk to Amber.

[1505] Hey, Amber, what's up?

[1506] Hi.

[1507] Thank you very much for taking my call.

[1508] Of course.

[1509] What's going on?

[1510] Yeah, so I have been thinking about my living situation.

[1511] I live in an apartment.

[1512] and I don't have an income right now.

[1513] I had a baby.

[1514] He's 18 months old.

[1515] And I also have a disability.

[1516] So I have been pretty much just surviving on a long -term disability settlement that I received like two years ago.

[1517] How much was that for?

[1518] The settlement was for, let's see.

[1519] I think it was 80 ,000.

[1520] Okay.

[1521] What's the nature of the disability, Amber?

[1522] So I have multiple sclerosis.

[1523] Okay.

[1524] And, yeah, so it was kind of crazy that I had just got that settlement, and then, like, a few months later, I found out I was pregnant.

[1525] Is it just you?

[1526] Are you solo?

[1527] Yes, I am solo.

[1528] That's the other thing.

[1529] Do you have any family in town?

[1530] No, no, not at all What is keeping you in Dallas at this point?

[1531] Well, I'm from Dallas and Dad is in Dallas too What is his involvement right now with this relationship?

[1532] He's there, but Is he paying child support?

[1533] We're still working through it.

[1534] Is he paying child?

[1535] Okay.

[1536] Have you gone in four?

[1537] and formalize this with an attorney?

[1538] Right.

[1539] Yeah, that's something I'm looking into, but I haven't done anything yet.

[1540] I've just been kind of using their first year to see how things are going to go.

[1541] You know how they're going to go, right?

[1542] Yeah, I think I have a pretty good idea now.

[1543] You know, I know how you want them to go, and I want them to go that way, too, but they're not going to.

[1544] Yeah.

[1545] I want you to call Legal Aid Dallas.

[1546] There's some, there's a bunch of research.

[1547] forces there.

[1548] And if you can't get a hold of them, there's a couple of fantastic law school clinics there in the DFW area.

[1549] And I want you to reach out to one of those clinics and see if they will walk you through the child support process so we can get him on record so he's got to pay.

[1550] Now, we both know that that system's flawed and it doesn't always work out like we want it to.

[1551] But I want it on record so that you have that additional support for that little baby.

[1552] If he's going to choose to opt out of that baby's life, fine, but he's going to put some money down, Okay, and support that kid.

[1553] Is that fair?

[1554] Yeah.

[1555] Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[1556] Yeah, he kind of contributes a little bit, but...

[1557] Kind of contributes a little bit is not good enough for me. Yeah.

[1558] I want...

[1559] He is paying $600 per month.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] Every month.

[1562] Yeah, actually, it's crazy you say that because that's exactly what he's feeling.

[1563] Okay.

[1564] All right, so what's...

[1565] I have this feeling there.

[1566] What's your living situation?

[1567] How can we help you?

[1568] Yeah, so...

[1569] Um, so I'm in an apartment.

[1570] It's a one bedroom and, um, it's about 1 ,700, like 17, 20 a month.

[1571] That's including the water, um, trash, all that stuff.

[1572] So about 1720 a month.

[1573] Um, and like I said, I've been, I've been living on this, you know, amount of money for the, like, the last two years, pretty much exclusively.

[1574] But you're burning through the, So, what is the balance now?

[1575] So now we're sitting at like 40.

[1576] I know.

[1577] And so I'm like, this is dwindowing really fast.

[1578] I am really sad because I don't know what to do.

[1579] Will you qualify for disability?

[1580] I don't know.

[1581] I did apply three years ago the way before baby was here.

[1582] but I was denied at the hearing level, unfortunately.

[1583] But it sounds like, are you going to be able to work for the foreseeable future, or is that not going to be a possibility?

[1584] I'm going to try because, yeah, I'd rather try than because I know it's going to be a long road if I apply again, which I might do.

[1585] I think you do both.

[1586] Amber, can I just be super direct with you?

[1587] Sure.

[1588] You got the rug pulled out from under you in your life, didn't you?

[1589] two years ago oh yeah 100 % yes in this diagnostic this diagnosis is scary and it's painful and it's uncomfortable right yes and then you found yourself with this amazing baby and there was terror and fear and also optimism that dad was going to come through and it was going to work out and it hasn't right right yeah i'm saying this because we have a compressed time limit together and because I care about you.

[1590] The whole time you've been knocked down and you got knocked down a couple of times.

[1591] Math has kept spinning.

[1592] Right.

[1593] The reality has kept spinning while you're grieving.

[1594] And so the quicker you can pull the pen on this apartment that you simply cannot afford.

[1595] You can't afford a $1 ,700 a month place plus utilities because you're just burning through that settlement money that you got.

[1596] God.

[1597] And I would love more than anything for you to be able to just stay at home with that baby.

[1598] It's just not a financial reality for you.

[1599] And so if you have a local church that can help support you or if you can figure out a way to work from home, do different types of whatever that is, now that you're wrestling with like this is going to be the rest of my life with MS and here we go, whatever you can do.

[1600] I've worked with some amazing colleagues over the years who had MS and it was tough for them.

[1601] It was a unique experience, but man, they were contributors.

[1602] They were A -plus rock stars on the team, right?

[1603] And so it's figuring it out, okay, this has been my story.

[1604] This has been my lot.

[1605] But I'm going to get back out there because it's me and it's this little baby, right?

[1606] You need a sustainable solution long term.

[1607] And for now, that might be, you know, applying for SSI.

[1608] Because right now you've got to take care of that baby.

[1609] You've got to pay the bills.

[1610] And we also need to get out of this lease and find a cheaper apartment.

[1611] I would apply for SSI, ASAP, and I would reach out and see if you can get out of your apartment and break the lease, say I can't make the payments anymore.

[1612] I have no job.

[1613] I'm on disability and go from there.

[1614] Thanks for the call.

[1615] We'll be right back.

[1616] Welcome back to the Ramsey show.

[1617] I'm John Deloney joined by George Camel.

[1618] And we've got an amazing, beautiful family on the debt -free stage.

[1619] We've got Thomas, Suzanne, and Camman from Raleigh, North Carolina, the Research Triangle.

[1620] How are we doing, y 'all?

[1621] Wonderful.

[1622] How are you?

[1623] Good.

[1624] Honored to have you guys.

[1625] Thank you.

[1626] So you're on the debt -free stage.

[1627] How much debt did you pay off?

[1628] $167 ,000.

[1629] Okay, how long did that take?

[1630] 37 months.

[1631] Wow.

[1632] Wow.

[1633] Kim, did you used to have a brother that they got rid of?

[1634] What happened?

[1635] He's unamused by John.

[1636] I love it so much.

[1637] Okay, what was your range of income during that time?

[1638] So we started about 113 and we finished at about 133.

[1639] Way to go.

[1640] What do you guys do for a living?

[1641] So I'm a pastor.

[1642] I'm a nurse.

[1643] Wonderful.

[1644] Wonderful careers, helping your community.

[1645] Love to see that.

[1646] All right, what type of debt was the 167?

[1647] So a little bit of everything.

[1648] We had credit cards, personal loans.

[1649] We had about 58 ,000 student loans.

[1650] That was actually the last part that we paid off.

[1651] And then we had 75 ,000 in vehicle payments.

[1652] 75 ,000, man, preachers be rolling, dude.

[1653] Man, I had a F -150 lariat that was fully loaded.

[1654] And that was probably the hardest part to let go.

[1655] You said had.

[1656] And the motorcycle.

[1657] Yeah, and the motorcycle.

[1658] That's right.

[1659] I feel like you still go in the garage in a dark room and just stare at the wall and be like, I miss you four.

[1660] Every time I see one drive by, I'm just like, hmm.

[1661] So you like things that go of room.

[1662] And Suzanne, did you have no part in these car loans?

[1663] No, I had a 2016 Explorer XLT, leather interior, sunroof.

[1664] And I kind of had my identity in my car.

[1665] And that was hard to let go of two, and I miss it every day.

[1666] Do you have any of these now?

[1667] Did you get rid of all the vehicles?

[1668] we we drive he drives a 2011 Subaru Tribeca now 200 ,000 miles oh that's a pretty picture of it on you're just getting gone with Subaru that one actually the engine blew up on and so he we traded in the Explorer got the Subaru Tribeca and then he drives that and I have a 16 escape that they're both paid off now obviously wonderful but hold on can you say it again but I miss it every day we do both miss our vehicles every day.

[1669] This is intense.

[1670] So three years, you paid off 167 grand.

[1671] How did you do that?

[1672] And what got you on the path?

[1673] We sold everything.

[1674] Yeah.

[1675] Except our child.

[1676] Wow.

[1677] And she picked up all kinds of shifts.

[1678] So I went from a Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 job to a 36 hour a week, 12 hour shift nursing job that I was able to pick up extra shifts.

[1679] So.

[1680] Wow.

[1681] Okay.

[1682] So 37 months ago, you guys are pretty normal as far as America goes.

[1683] You had all the car payment.

[1684] and student loans.

[1685] Actually, it started like 14 years ago.

[1686] My brother, Richard, got us two of the Financial Peace DVDs.

[1687] We watched them.

[1688] We started budgeting, but we didn't change in our behavior.

[1689] You just thought, like, oh, that was fun.

[1690] That was cool.

[1691] We were actually just recording the stupid stuff we were doing.

[1692] He thought it was like a cool movie.

[1693] It's because he didn't get you all the DVDs.

[1694] He just got you two.

[1695] You're like, baby step four and just left you hang in.

[1696] That's right.

[1697] Wow.

[1698] Okay, so 37 months ago, you were like, hey, remember that Dave Ramsey guy?

[1699] Maybe we should go back to that.

[1700] Is that what happened?

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] So she was starting a new job, and we were like, we make too much money to continue to live paycheck to paycheck.

[1703] And we knew something had to change.

[1704] Absolutely.

[1705] So were you both on board from the start?

[1706] I mean, we're like, all right, we're selling all the cars.

[1707] Who was on board first?

[1708] Like, who dragged who into it?

[1709] He's the spreadsheet guru.

[1710] And so he would make the spreadsheet.

[1711] We would do the $0 budget.

[1712] it.

[1713] I would make the grocery list, I guess, and we would do rice and beans, not literally, but we dwindled down the grocery list.

[1714] So you brought your lifestyle down on nothing, and you were willing to go like all these toys that we've acquired that we love that have all these payments attached, we are going to sell them.

[1715] I was very resistant to getting rid of my car, but because he got rid of his truck, I said, okay, I'll do it.

[1716] Was this like a, well, if you do it, I'll do it?

[1717] No, no, but the biggest thing for me was the $8 ,000 Discover credit card that was in my name only.

[1718] Once that got paid off, I was whole hog.

[1719] Basically, I was like, okay, well, if that got paid off under my name, then I can do this.

[1720] And so, once - You needed a quick win to go, this is possible for us.

[1721] That's the power of the debt snowball and Baby Step 2.

[1722] Absolutely.

[1723] Absolutely.

[1724] And we didn't sell our vehicles until a year in.

[1725] So, in fact, the first year, we didn't even keep track of how much debt we were paying off.

[1726] And in fact, it was November that year.

[1727] I was like, hey, I should probably check this out and see how much have actually paid off.

[1728] And we realized that kind of just doing it partially, I mean, not really being intense about it, we paid off $55 ,000 in that first year.

[1729] And I was like, hey, stuff works.

[1730] And that was basically like haphazardly.

[1731] What if we actually really paid attention and had a goal -ish.

[1732] Yeah.

[1733] Wow.

[1734] So January, that next year, we led our first FPU class and sold my truck and then this is at your church this is another church we've actually led two other times in last that was our second class the first class we did was our small group at our church oh that's cool yeah wow so does your does your like congregation know about this journey yeah they're in on it and they're like cheering you guys on yeah most definitely that's fun yeah we like to see a pastor live live it out and go oh this guy's really doing it yeah it's crazy so i've been preaching for probably 14 years now, and it's changed how I approach money and talk about money.

[1735] Like before, I was, you know, scared to talk about that.

[1736] Like, I was like, oh, this subject I want to talk about in front the congregation, because I was just being poor with it.

[1737] Well, you had your own shame around it.

[1738] Exactly.

[1739] Exactly.

[1740] And so, you know, it's helped us, us getting, getting our finances in order, has helped us be able to, to share the truth of God's word, you know, freely when it comes to money.

[1741] If you're okay and you can just say we don't want to talk about this, you just have to do that in front of a whole bunch of people.

[1742] Both of you, the last few years, just the healthcare profession has shifted and changed and it's just gotten tough, right?

[1743] On a thousand different fronts.

[1744] Absolutely.

[1745] There's something about going to work every day where you are doing the best you can as a pastor and somebody's going to write you an email, somebody's going to complain, somebody's going to say something that breaks your heart because you really were doing your best that day and this person really goes, there has to be some kind of freedom that heaven forbid if you either one of you just says I'm enough that you're okay right and and when I've worked with pastors I've worked with people in the medical profession there's that angst that I owe so much it took me so much money to get here I had to get a doctorate in theology or I had to get medical school on it by the time I get here I am stuck doing this thing which means I got to play by all these rules whether I agree with them or love them or can even stomach them at all.

[1746] Both of you all are completely free now.

[1747] What does that feel like?

[1748] It's such a burden just off our shoulders.

[1749] It's still surreal.

[1750] Yeah.

[1751] I still don't know how to live.

[1752] Yeah.

[1753] It's like getting off a boat all day.

[1754] You're back on land and it's still kind of wobbly.

[1755] Yeah.

[1756] Wow.

[1757] What's next for you guys?

[1758] So we're going to celebrate in Cancun.

[1759] So we're taking our first vacation.

[1760] Yeah, we're looking forward to it.

[1761] We've neglected did vacations because of this.

[1762] And then next is obviously our house.

[1763] Oh, that's so great.

[1764] Next up.

[1765] And rumor has it that if you say no to some things and pay off debts, your kids will evaporate.

[1766] But I see your son.

[1767] He's still here.

[1768] He's still here.

[1769] And he has been told no with some things.

[1770] And he survived?

[1771] You made it, Kimman?

[1772] Yeah?

[1773] He survived.

[1774] Wow.

[1775] How old is Camden?

[1776] He's 12.

[1777] Okay.

[1778] And he got to see mom and dad hustle and sacrifice to give him a better life to leave a legacy to see mom and dad less stressed out.

[1779] Because that's something that we weren't taught as as young ends.

[1780] We wanted to change that.

[1781] And so we involved him as much as we could.

[1782] And we actually have a sheet that we had up on the refrigerator that had all of our debts listed.

[1783] And we started with just our debts.

[1784] But then when we got to our end, we had to go to every thousand dollars just to kind of keep us going because it was two student loans that were huge.

[1785] And so like, we was like, hey, we got to have something.

[1786] And so every thousand dollars he would mark off.

[1787] And that was That was his part of it.

[1788] Wow.

[1789] So.

[1790] Well, we're going to celebrate with you guys.

[1791] We got two every dollar premium gift cards that you can use.

[1792] You can give them away just to say thank you for visiting us and cheer you on the journey.

[1793] You guys ready?

[1794] We are.

[1795] All right.

[1796] We got Thomas, Suzanne and Camden from Raleigh, North Carolina.

[1797] $167 ,000 paid off in 37 months.

[1798] They sold the motorcycle.

[1799] They sold the SUV.

[1800] They sold the truck making 113 to 133.

[1801] Count it down.

[1802] Let's hear a debt.

[1803] free scream.

[1804] Three, two, one, we're debt free!

[1805] Nothing like it, John.

[1806] Can I tell you, I would love to go into a hospital and be served by somebody who doesn't owe any money who can focus on me. I'd love to walk into a church and have a pastor that is beholden only to God and what's right, not to the whims.

[1807] No lander living in their head rent -free.

[1808] I love it, I love it, man. What a gift.

[1809] Y 'all are amazing, good folks.

[1810] We'll be right back.

[1811] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1812] Today's scripture of the day is Proverbs 12 -11.

[1813] Those who work their land will have abundant food.

[1814] But those who chase fantasies have no sense.

[1815] Ross Simmons says, hustle beats talent when talent doesn't hustle.

[1816] That's how I've lived my life, John.

[1817] I don't think that's true.

[1818] I don't think that's true at all.

[1819] I think you should pay close attention to this Ross Simmons quote.

[1820] Fair point.

[1821] Fair point.

[1822] I'm more of a Proverbs guy myself.

[1823] Oh, I see what you did there.

[1824] Let's go out to Indianapolis and talk to Mona, not Lisa, just Mona.

[1825] Hey, Mona, what's up?

[1826] Hi, thanks for your help today.

[1827] You got it.

[1828] What's going on?

[1829] My mom and dad, my elderly mom parents are moving in with me and my husband, and they are giving us a lump sum to take care of them for whatever the remainder of their life will be.

[1830] And we've got a contract, everything's written up, but, I want to make sure that the lump sum is not taxable on either part, either side.

[1831] Yes.

[1832] Well, when it comes to gifts, which this would be considered a gift, the donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax.

[1833] And so, you know, if you look at the exclusions for the year, this year it's 18 ,000.

[1834] So each parent could give you 18 ,000, which would be 36.

[1835] So that what they could do is split it up over three years.

[1836] What is the urgency to give you all 100 ,000 at once?

[1837] not to sit down every month and say here's a rent we don't want to like talk about the finances every month and and they're going to come with uh absolutely no bills um they're not going to pay our electric or anything like that so okay can i tell you what i would do mona why don't you just take control of their you know you have access to the checking account and you're covering the bills from their account instead of going to you so even though they're giving me the 100 and it's for their expenses, I mean, they'll never have rent or anything.

[1838] It's still the 18, you could still only do 18 ,000 that's still considered a gift.

[1839] 18 ,000 from each parent.

[1840] Because I was just going to say the services that I'm rendering, like, they're not going to have to drive anymore.

[1841] They're not going to have to shop anymore.

[1842] I know, but you're doing this in the most, you're doing this the most complicated way possible.

[1843] Okay.

[1844] Like, why wouldn't you, like, not have them not give you?

[1845] Do you, are there other siblings that are going to take their money?

[1846] No. There's other siblings involved, but they're the ones that came up with this idea.

[1847] I would rather you take guardianship of their checking account and you withdraw expenses as needed.

[1848] Okay.

[1849] And if they don't trust you, because here's a deal.

[1850] Let's say that the $100 grand runs out in two years and they're still around.

[1851] Are you just not going to get any more money?

[1852] Yeah, we haven't thought that one through.

[1853] I would rather you...

[1854] How old are they?

[1855] Yeah.

[1856] 80 and 87, but my 80 -year -old mother, her mother is still alive and she's 100.

[1857] That's what I'm saying.

[1858] What's the long -term game plan?

[1859] Yeah.

[1860] Are you guys okay to just take care of them forever?

[1861] We were just going to do 100 ,000 and look at it like, you know, whatever, however long they live, we would take care of them if they had no money, so we were just going to do it this way.

[1862] Yeah, I would rather you have access to their checking account.

[1863] Do you need this money to cover any bills right now?

[1864] Like, what if you just left it?

[1865] No, we don't.

[1866] Okay, well, split it up when they pass away.

[1867] I'd rather them just invest this money if they don't need it, and that $100 ,000 in seven years turns into $200 ,000, and it becomes an inheritance that one day you guys get blessed with.

[1868] Yeah, and I already am on their checking account.

[1869] I haven't done anything yet, but they put me on it years ago.

[1870] I would much rather y 'all have a contract that said, we'll pay you $1 ,000, or we're advising you to withdraw $1 ,500 a month, or whatever.

[1871] for groceries and gas and like this rent and you just pull it out that way it's not taxable that way okay it's just paying for expenses that are their expenses that they're accruing because yeah you're right there may be 20 more years yeah and there's also a lifetime I wouldn't be concerned about taxes the taxes are the you know don't worry about taxes my mom's gonna outlive him I believe it And so we just need a long -term game plan.

[1872] It sounds like you guys are financially secure.

[1873] Do you guys have any debt?

[1874] We don't.

[1875] And we've got our house paid off.

[1876] It's amazing.

[1877] You're doing it right.

[1878] I've been listening to Dave since 2008.

[1879] Bless you.

[1880] And it's worked out.

[1881] So here's the deal.

[1882] I would just invest that money and invest it wisely.

[1883] And when they pass one day, that could be 25 years from now, then that'll just be part of an inheritance and it'll all shake out.

[1884] But I don't think we need to play this weird monopoly money game where you take money from every month and you guys manage it because you guys don't need the money and can i tell you what i think would happen mona this just me being being honest i think if you take a hundred thousand dollars from them this relationship it's real transactional real fast and they start looking at you it's weird on my even on my part well they start looking at you as though no no no no no we paid you you you're going to do this and you're going to do this you're going to do this i would much rather than manage their checking account through you and they just live in your house now that's cool it sounds like they're they're feeling kind of guilty about this and this money is a way of them saying well we gave them money actually i think tell me if i'm wrong i think brother and sister or i think siblings came up with this idea because they feel bad that you're taking the burden yes and my parents my parents came up with it too because some of their friends um are broke now and they've been in like a nursing home for two years and it ate up $100 ,000, $127 ,000 on one of their friends.

[1885] Okay.

[1886] So I would only use that money if you need to in order to take care of your parents because you guys don't have the funds to do so.

[1887] I hope that never happens.

[1888] I hope this money just becomes a legacy that they get to leave.

[1889] And if you and your siblings need to feel, if they feel like, if you all feel like, you're owed extra money, if you will, for the service, quote unquote, service is rendered because mom moved in with you guys or mom and dad moved in with you.

[1890] drove him around forever.

[1891] Split that up during the inheritance with whatever's alive.

[1892] But let your mom and dad spend their money while they're still alive.

[1893] Okay, that's a good idea too.

[1894] Thank you.

[1895] I appreciate it.

[1896] You bet.

[1897] John's full of a lot of things.

[1898] Good ideas is one of them.

[1899] Occasionally.

[1900] Just one of the things.

[1901] Producer Kelly Daniels is shaking red.

[1902] Yes, absolutely.

[1903] Let's go out to Los Angeles, California.

[1904] Callie, we're up against a clock for the last call of the day.

[1905] What's going on?

[1906] Hi, George.

[1907] Hi, John.

[1908] Yeah.

[1909] Hi.

[1910] Hi.

[1911] So I'm 47.

[1912] I'm on Baby Step 6.

[1913] I'm living in a town down here in Southern California that I've never really been happy with.

[1914] And I have the opportunity to move.

[1915] My job is 300 miles away from here, and it's a farm property.

[1916] That's my business.

[1917] And it's owned by my mother.

[1918] I have an opportunity to move there.

[1919] and live basically rent -free.

[1920] But I'm emotionally attached to this house here.

[1921] I've lived here for three years.

[1922] Like I said, it's in an area that I don't want to live and I don't want to end up here, but the actual house, I love it.

[1923] And I don't know how to, like, emotionally tear myself away from this property and move on to my family farm.

[1924] Why are you so emotionally invested in this home?

[1925] I don't know.

[1926] Just a bunch of studs and some drywall.

[1927] What did it mean to you?

[1928] Did you move there after a divorce?

[1929] Did somebody pass away?

[1930] What does it mean to you?

[1931] Oh, that's good.

[1932] Yeah.

[1933] It is kind of part of a divorce and part of the autonomy that, you know, I bought this house all on my own after my divorce.

[1934] There it is.

[1935] Yeah.

[1936] So here's what I want you to do.

[1937] I want you to write.

[1938] This is going to sound cheesy.

[1939] lame, there's going to be millions of people across the country who roll their eyes at this, but I'm just talking to you.

[1940] I want you to write a thank you letter, a letter of gratitude to this home.

[1941] And I want you to read it out loud in your living room.

[1942] Yeah.

[1943] Because this home was there for you when nobody else was, right?

[1944] Yeah.

[1945] And it served a purpose.

[1946] And it gave you a roof over your head, and it gave you some security and comfort when your whole world fell apart.

[1947] And we're really grateful for that house and now we're going to go live the rest of our life because we're back on our feet again yeah can you build a new dream home on the farm one day i definitely can and in fact my dad started it and then he passed away and so it's so close to being done go get it go get it that's your new emotional attachment that should be your new thing you get excited about working on george is big on transference just move your emotional attachment for me don't deal with it just over there.

[1948] I think that's fantastic.

[1949] But I'm selling the house and starting a new life on the farm.

[1950] Absolutely.

[1951] Thanks for the call, Kelly.

[1952] All right, thanks everybody in the booth, including Kelly, sitting in for the one and only James Childs.

[1953] Great show, George.

[1954] And thank you, America, for listening and hanging out with us.

[1955] We'll be back soon on the Ramsey Show.

[1956] Dr. John Deloney here.

[1957] Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships.

[1958] It's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you.

[1959] The Dr. John Deloney's show is here.

[1960] here to help.

[1961] It's a caller -driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more.

[1962] Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call.

[1963] You are never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about.

[1964] Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.

[1965] Remember, your worth being well.