S2: E1 - Hidden

[0] I'm John Walsack, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona.

[1] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[2] We cloned his voice using AI.

[3] In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode.

[4] Before escaping into the wilderness.

[5] Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[6] Join me. I'm going down in the cave.

[7] As I track down clues.

[8] I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[9] Hunting.

[10] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[11] Robert Fisher.

[12] Do you recognize my voice?

[13] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday.

[14] on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[15] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard -pressed to forget.

[16] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[17] Oh, gosh, the U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive meat in the world.

[18] We are athletes who are going out there, smashing into each other, full force.

[19] Listen to the podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast, weekly and every day during the Games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[20] In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared.

[21] I found out what happened to all of them, except one, a woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars.

[22] I'm Lucy Sheriff.

[23] Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.

[24] Hear the story on Where's Deer?

[25] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[26] Topics featured in this episode may be disturbing to some listeners.

[27] Please take care while listening.

[28] My husband and I were opening a business.

[29] His first job was that very next day.

[30] One of the clients had asked if they could Benmo him.

[31] So he'd called me that morning, September 29.

[32] 2021.

[33] He was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo.

[34] And I was like, all right.

[35] Username and password for whatever email is connected to your Venmo.

[36] So he sent me the login for his iCloud.

[37] And as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back.

[38] He was like, oh, don't worry about it.

[39] We'll do it together when we get home.

[40] Like, I'm sorry.

[41] It's going to be too much.

[42] Like, don't do it.

[43] I knew by the tenor of his voice that he was trying to hide something.

[44] I thought maybe he bought something they didn't want me to know about.

[45] There was nothing in his photos.

[46] And then I scrolled down and that's when I saw a hidden folder and I opened it.

[47] You know when you open your photos, it's going to show you like a whole bunch of them at once.

[48] I slammed my computer shut.

[49] What the hell did I just see?

[50] I'm like, no, there's no way I saw that.

[51] my first reaction was like that was disgusting i need to shower i need to get that off of me unfortunately you can't scrub that out of your brain when i was in the shower i said the most heart felt prayer i think i've ever said in my life i was like god something's wrong whatever you're about to hand to me i'm ready i can do this god i'm ready for you I'm Andrea Gunning.

[52] This is Betrayal Season 2.

[53] Episode 1.

[54] Hidden.

[55] When we set out to make season one, our goal was simple.

[56] If we could help make one person feel less alone, then we did our job.

[57] And the responses we got from you guys, it was overwhelming.

[58] Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

[59] We value them so much.

[60] In addition to feedback, we also heard from people wanting to share their story.

[61] some of them were heartbreaking.

[62] Some were inspiring.

[63] We received hundreds of emails, and several of them revealed a betrayal that nobody wants to talk about.

[64] I was surprised to see this issue reappear in email after email.

[65] Would I be able to take this subject on?

[66] I was nervous, but it was something I could not ignore, especially since there was this one email I could not stop thinking about.

[67] It was from the woman you just heard that slammed her computer shut.

[68] She's based in Utah, and in the winter of 2022, I flew out to meet her.

[69] It was late when I landed in Salt Lake, and the roads were empty.

[70] It was a 20 -minute drive to the place we were staying.

[71] It was dark.

[72] Looking out into the sky, there was an outline that almost split the sky into two, two black shapes gently resting against one another.

[73] What was that?

[74] At first, I didn't know what it was.

[75] They were the Wasatch Mountains.

[76] It was breathtaking.

[77] I had never been to Utah, and the mountains that surrounded me seeing the best of nature, it provided a sense of comfort, almost like a hug.

[78] Almost as if the sky was saying, Welcome, you're safe here.

[79] The mountains were keeping watch.

[80] Despite the sense of safety and the beauty, I was guarded, thinking of what lies beneath.

[81] I was there to cover a story.

[82] a story born in the darkness, the shadows, a story about betrayal, invasion, and really the worst parts of humanity.

[83] It's a story of Ashley Lytton, a mother of three, who lives in a town called Riverton, 25 minutes south of Salt Lake City.

[84] I grew up in West Valley, City, Utah's a suburb of Salt Lake City, and it's known locally as being just a little bit rougher, rougher crowds, tougher kids, and growing up, a lot of us kids kind of just around the streets because our parents worked a lot.

[85] When I was a child, my mom got sick.

[86] She has multiple sclerosis.

[87] My mom wasn't like super mobile.

[88] Instead of like being a kid and being 10 and like playing at recess, that wasn't an option.

[89] The only option was to go home and check a mom, make sure she was okay.

[90] Eventually, her mom needed more support.

[91] My mom at this point was no longer in our home, and my dad worked nights.

[92] And so I took care of my little brother and sister, got them breakfast, and I'd walk them to school every day, and then I'd go to junior high.

[93] Just meeting with Ashley, I got the sense that she was someone who had to grow up quickly.

[94] She put her family's needs ahead of her own.

[95] She helped raise her two younger siblings, managed a household.

[96] There was never a question.

[97] Ashley just did what needed to be done.

[98] Ashley's dad, John Trujillo.

[99] Ashley's been the caregiver and still has more caregiver than all the kids.

[100] Ashley's been the caregiver from day one.

[101] She told me that her only escape from all of that responsibility was a boy she met at school.

[102] I met Matt in seventh grade.

[103] He was handsome and all the girls liked him and he just happened to notice me too.

[104] I wrote in my journal the first day that I found out what his name was, met the man I'm going to marry today, and then I wrote his name.

[105] On yearbook day that year, this is going to totally age me, but in my yearbook, he said, hey, give me a call some time, gave me his number, and then he put, P .S., you're pretty fly.

[106] And I was like, oh my God, he thinks I'm fly.

[107] I didn't even know what that meant, but I just knew that it meant something like super cool.

[108] We all know this kid, wild, unpredictable.

[109] I'd see him, you know, getting in trouble.

[110] trouble all the time and I don't know I just I think I really admired like how brave he was it sounds brave but really it was probably reckless and stupid Matt wasn't exactly faithful to Ashley bad boys rarely are it was not an awesome relationship and so I kind of made trades with it more than anything it was transactional I guess I'd get rid of my respect to have a safe place to go outside of my home they were kids at first but but stay together for more than 10 years.

[111] And during that time, drugs became the third partner in their relationship.

[112] He really started struggling with addiction when we were, like, 15 or 16.

[113] That's when he started, like, painkillers, ecstasy.

[114] And I had never even really seen marijuana at that point in my life.

[115] The drug addiction continued into adulthood, and so did their relationship.

[116] They still felt like kids, but they had to grow up fast.

[117] I got pregnant with Avea when I was 20, and she was not planned.

[118] So that was interesting because I didn't want kids, and I was using contraceptives, and it just still happened.

[119] Three years later, a son came along.

[120] Ashley stepped up to the plate, determined to take care of her kids.

[121] Ashley's sister, Anna.

[122] She tried to be a devoted partner, and he just wasn't that person.

[123] and he wasn't ready to be a father.

[124] And there resulted in a lot of dysfunction and instability that my sister did a really good job trying to shield the children from.

[125] He would settle down for months on end, but never, like, super consistent.

[126] But I was like, maybe this will be it.

[127] You know, because I saw so much potential in him, and I just thought he was meant for so much more than what he was doing.

[128] Then, Matt disappeared on a three -day bender.

[129] I just knew that I was.

[130] done.

[131] So I took his shit and dumped it on his brother, his brother's front lawn like a crazy lady.

[132] And I left him.

[133] I had to because of his addiction.

[134] I was like, I need to give these kids a chance.

[135] Ashley spent her whole life prioritizing others.

[136] Leaving Matt meant she needed to come first.

[137] Leaving a relationship where you're so emotionally invested in your partner so young can be scary, but she did it.

[138] She got herself out of an unhealthy relationship and went to work, for herself and for her two kids.

[139] She took a waitressing job and hustled.

[140] She was finding independence.

[141] While on the job, one customer kept coming in over and over.

[142] So one day, I'm at work, and I saw him, and he smiled at me. The he was Jason Linton, and he looked familiar.

[143] I recognized him at that point.

[144] I recognized him at that point.

[145] because my sister went to high school with him.

[146] And I thought it was GTL.

[147] I was like, oh, this idiot.

[148] Ashley remembered him being such a meathead.

[149] But he was undeterred.

[150] He made a point of coming into Ashley's workplace often.

[151] He was flirty with me, and he'd come in like two or three times a week.

[152] He'd always get a shake, a chocolate shake, but I'd give him like an extra large shake.

[153] But I'd only charge him for a small.

[154] Everyone at work always were like, oh, hey, Ashley, your shake boyfriend.

[155] here.

[156] Ashley was surprised when Jason changed jobs and started working at the same restaurant.

[157] And she was assigned to train him.

[158] We're sitting there and he kept trying to talk to me while I was training him.

[159] And I was like, what do you want to know about me?

[160] I like to work and be a mom.

[161] What do you like to do?

[162] And I was kind of being an asshole because I wanted to get past this and train him and get it done all over with.

[163] Jason was determined to impress her.

[164] And he's like, well, I can sing.

[165] And I'm like, you can sing.

[166] And I'm not a mean girl.

[167] But I was going to shut this down real quick.

[168] So I was like, all right, let's see what you can do.

[169] Took him in the back.

[170] I was friends with all the cooks and all the waitresses.

[171] And I was like, hey, everyone can make, come here.

[172] This new guy says he can sing.

[173] What did he say?

[174] Rascal Flat song.

[175] God bless the broken road or something.

[176] It's a song about broken paths leading you to your future soulmate.

[177] Ashley certainly had a broken road.

[178] She could relate.

[179] The lyrics look back.

[180] on decisions made, things not working out, but inevitably for the better.

[181] And it struck a chord, and Jason could really sing it.

[182] My jaw was on the floor, and I was like, okay, I'll have lunch with you here after the shift.

[183] Ashley started to look at Jason differently.

[184] He wasn't the goofy guy his sister knew in high school anymore.

[185] He was serious.

[186] It was also fun, sweet, and talented.

[187] He could sing.

[188] and had a great sense of humor.

[189] It was pretty quick that we met him.

[190] I thought, wow, she's found a good guy.

[191] He was real respectful, very mannerly.

[192] He was like night shining armor.

[193] I was like, here's this normal dude that wants to be with me. Like, what?

[194] I even told Jason when we first dating, I'm like, you're crazy.

[195] Like, what are you doing?

[196] You are handsome.

[197] You are young.

[198] I have baggage.

[199] I have debt.

[200] I have a crazy ex.

[201] You know, like, I had all this stuff, and he is like, no, I'm going to stay.

[202] I'll take a chance on you.

[203] And I thought how lucky I was.

[204] And my family told me how lucky I was.

[205] I'm John Walzac, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona.

[206] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[207] We cloned his voice using AI.

[208] In 2001, police say I killed my family.

[209] First mom, then the kids.

[210] And rigged my house to explode.

[211] In a quiet suburb.

[212] This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley.

[213] before escaping into the wilderness.

[214] There was sleet and hail and snow coming down.

[215] They found my wife's SUV.

[216] Right on the reservation boundary.

[217] And my dog blew.

[218] All I could think of is going to sniper me out of some tree.

[219] But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[220] For two years.

[221] They won't tell you anything.

[222] I've traveled the nation.

[223] I'm going down in the cave.

[224] Tracking down clues.

[225] They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere.

[226] If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[227] Searching for Robert Fisher.

[228] One of the most dangerous fugitive.

[229] in the world.

[230] Do you recognize my voice?

[231] Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation.

[232] Today.

[233] And a disappearing act.

[234] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[235] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard pressed to forget.

[236] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[237] Oh gosh, the U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive means.

[238] in the world.

[239] We are athletes.

[240] We're going out there, smashing into each other full force.

[241] Listen to The Podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the Games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[242] In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California, five women disappeared in the span of just a few months.

[243] Eventually, I found out what happened to the women.

[244] All except one.

[245] A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dia.

[246] Her friends and family ran through endless theories.

[247] Was she hurt hiking?

[248] Did she run away?

[249] Had she been kidnapped?

[250] I'm Lucy Sherrith.

[251] I've been reporting this story for four years, and I've uncovered a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families and greed.

[252] Everyone, it seems, has a different version of events.

[253] Hear the story on Where's Deer, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and IHeart Podcasts.

[254] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[255] My name is Kathy Trujillo, and I am Ashley's stepmom.

[256] I love Jason.

[257] You could just see how nice and kind he was to her.

[258] He's really funny.

[259] He has a really great personality.

[260] can cut up the room pretty quick with laughter and jokes.

[261] If we're comparing my old relationship to this relationship, Jason was normal.

[262] Jason came from a good family.

[263] He was charming.

[264] He was kind.

[265] He was a hard worker.

[266] You wouldn't meet a person that didn't like Jason.

[267] The sweetest part was how much he seemed to love Ashley's children.

[268] He's really super good with her kids.

[269] Her daughter of Vaya was only two when Ashley met Jason.

[270] Her son was still a baby.

[271] It was so natural and they loved him.

[272] And my son, he did all of his firsts in front of Jason.

[273] His first words, first time crawling, first time walking, first time giggling.

[274] I think Avea was probably like five when they got married.

[275] The wedding was August 12, 2011, and they eventually had a child together, a daughter.

[276] And it just seemed to make their family complete.

[277] We moved to River 10.

[278] And I hate to use the word bougie, but it is more bougie than West Valley.

[279] And, you know, 10, 15 years ago before we moved out here, that was a big deal.

[280] It was cleaner.

[281] It looked safer.

[282] The house, a good school district, safety, a promising future.

[283] She had achieved her dream.

[284] I met Ashley at her house in Riverton.

[285] She was finishing work.

[286] So, yeah, this is our living room.

[287] Your house is adorable.

[288] It's so homey.

[289] Thank you.

[290] Yeah, it's fun.

[291] The kitties stay away from it now.

[292] We had no -no -kitty spray.

[293] I just put the spray bottle right there, and they were like...

[294] The first thing I noticed about Ashley is how full of life she is and how dedicated she is to her three children.

[295] Oh, and she's also really short and always has heels on.

[296] A typical day in our household was insanely busy.

[297] Avea played competitive soccer, and...

[298] and had practice for two hours.

[299] My son played Little League football, and then my youngest danced and had to go to dance once or twice a week as well.

[300] So I spent the majority of my days being a taxi driver for two hours.

[301] I'm a free taxi.

[302] That's what I call it.

[303] I'm a free taxi.

[304] Ashley and Jason have been married for 11 years.

[305] The two little ones she had when she first Jason, they're teenagers now.

[306] And the baby they had together is nine.

[307] Avea, her oldest, has a driver's license and a job.

[308] All marriages have ups and downs.

[309] They've struggled making ends meet.

[310] Mortgage payments were almost missed.

[311] But this new business they were launching was going to be a game changer.

[312] Park City is a very well -established, very rich area of Utah.

[313] I mean, your movie stars hang out up there.

[314] It's also a ski resort town, only about 40 miles from Riverton.

[315] Jason would have a lot of business opportunity in Park City.

[316] He had a lot of work up there.

[317] He was working on $3 million homes.

[318] Jason's former employer, Steve Ihausen, was selling Jason and another contractor his business.

[319] He's very personable.

[320] The contractors especially really liked him because he was very organized and was able to talk with the customers and kind of show them what needed to be done.

[321] It was all starting the next day.

[322] Jason just needed to set up a business Femmo account, and he asked Ashley for assistance.

[323] I knew by the tenor of his voice that he was trying to hide something.

[324] There was nothing in his photos.

[325] And then I scrolled down, and that's when I saw a hidden folder.

[326] And I opened it.

[327] It plays like slow motion in my brain when I think about it.

[328] You know, when you first pull up your photos, it gives you, I don't know, however many, like 30 photos or something, you know, and it gives you, like, little squares.

[329] So you can't really see unless you click on it, but those little squares I could tell weren't women.

[330] I think my brain went to what I could recognize, like what made sense.

[331] And so I went to what I thought was explicit adult photos.

[332] So I saw the adult, and then I saw that this adult woman's face was superimposed on a female child's nude body.

[333] Did you ever see something and think, this isn't real?

[334] It can't be real.

[335] It was too disturbing for words.

[336] Why would her husband have this?

[337] I clicked on one or two and screenshot it real quick.

[338] and then instantly, slam, it shut.

[339] What was all of this?

[340] She thought about Jason, her husband.

[341] Yes, there were problems.

[342] This was not a fairy tale marriage.

[343] He was far from perfect.

[344] But he wasn't this kind of person.

[345] He wouldn't look at material like this.

[346] This was criminal.

[347] Ashley knew she needed support quickly.

[348] Even with what she had just seen, she didn't completely trust herself.

[349] So she Face -timed her younger sister, Anna.

[350] For some reason, in my brain, even though my subconscious knew it, my brain could not comprehend it.

[351] And I was like, no, you need to call Anne.

[352] Anna had a similar reaction.

[353] I remember just feeling like, what the fuck am I looking at?

[354] Anna tried to see the photos through the phone.

[355] At the same time, she was looking at Ashley.

[356] I just remember her gasping and putting her hands to her face.

[357] She just kind of lost her shit.

[358] She started hyperventilating.

[359] Ashley works at home a few days a week.

[360] Jason knew she'd be there, and his intuition started kicking it.

[361] He just started calling up the hook and texting me, and I wouldn't respond.

[362] So I was scared because I knew he was coming home.

[363] Jason sounded anxious when they spoke, and now he was calling and texting with a frenzied energy.

[364] She started going into this really weird, dark place where she was like, oh my God, I got to get out of the house.

[365] He's going to come back here.

[366] He's going to find out that I've seen this.

[367] He's going to come kill me. Her mind immediately went to another well -known case in Salt Lake City where a husband kept secrets from his wife.

[368] My first thought was Mark Hacking and Lori Hacking.

[369] In 2004, the Hacking case made international news and dominated the front pages of Utah newspapers.

[370] A young pregnant woman, Lori Hacking, discovered that her husband had lied about his education.

[371] As they were preparing to move across the country from Mark to attend medical school, Lori also learned he had never been admitted.

[372] And instead of being exposed to killed her, and they had to look for her body in the landfill.

[373] I instantly was terrified, and I was like, he's going to kill me. neither Anna nor Ashley knew exactly what to do next and's like oh my gosh I can't see it really well but from what I think I can see you need to go show Kathy Kathy she works at the Department of Corrections for the state of Utah and specifically has to deal with a lot of correspondence from inmates in and out of the prison her stepmom Kathy would certainly recognize the content in the hidden file She was at the Utah State Prison.

[374] It was probably like a 20 -minute drive from Ashley.

[375] I wanted her to go see her to see if the images were as bad as we thought they were.

[376] She's been around some bad people.

[377] You know, we trust her.

[378] I got a phone call from Ashley's sister Anna, and she said, hey, there's something really bad going on.

[379] Ashley's headed your way.

[380] She needs help.

[381] Okay, so I went out.

[382] front of my building to look out the window, and I seen her car pull in.

[383] She said she'd seen images on Jason's phone, so I wasn't sure what we were talking about.

[384] I just assumed maybe he was having an affair or something.

[385] I knew it was something probably not great.

[386] But I went out, and she got out of the car, and she was walking towards me. And Ashley's little, she wasn't able to hold herself up really well, and so I just grabbed hold of her and was hugging her and holding her.

[387] we got back in her car and she showed me a screenshot of it I said oh my God he's in so much freaking trouble and we're back and forth crying both crying so hard because those girls were too young I'm not a age expert but I do work at the prison and sometimes people send inmates pictures that they're not allowed to have and I knew those girls were too young.

[388] What happened next might be hard to understand unless you've been in this situation.

[389] You know you're sitting on a ticking time bomb.

[390] You have information that will blow up your life as you know it, and you want some control over how and when it will explode.

[391] Ashley had someone in mind to help.

[392] I'm John Walsack, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona.

[393] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[394] his voice using AI.

[395] In 2001, police say I killed my family.

[396] First mom, then the kids.

[397] And rigged my house to explode.

[398] In a quiet suburb.

[399] This is the Beverly Hills of the valley.

[400] Before escaping into the wilderness.

[401] There was sleet and hail and snow coming down.

[402] They found my wife's SUV.

[403] Right on the reservation boundary.

[404] And my dog flew.

[405] All I could think of is in the sniper me out of some tree.

[406] But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[407] For two years, they won't tell you anything.

[408] I've traveled the nation.

[409] I'm going down in the cave.

[410] Tracking down clues.

[411] They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere.

[412] If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[413] Searching for Robert Fisher.

[414] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[415] Do you recognize my voice?

[416] Join an exploding house.

[417] The hunt.

[418] Family annihilation.

[419] Today.

[420] And a disappearing act.

[421] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[422] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dyes.

[423] into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard -pressed to forget.

[424] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[425] Oh, gosh.

[426] The U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive meat in the world.

[427] We are athletes who are going out there, smashing into each other, full force.

[428] Listen to The Podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[429] In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California.

[430] Five women disappeared in the span of just a few months.

[431] Eventually, I found out what happened to the women, all except one.

[432] A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dia.

[433] Her friends and family ran through endless theories.

[434] Was she hurt hiking?

[435] Did she run away?

[436] Had she been kidnapped?

[437] I'm Lucy Sherrith.

[438] I've been reporting this story for four years and I've uncovered a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families and greed.

[439] Everyone, it seems, has a different version of events.

[440] Hear the story on Where's Dea, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and IHeart Podcasts.

[441] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[442] Jason's older brother is a police officer or one of the bigger police departments here in Salt Lake and I trust him.

[443] Anna was concerned that Ashley's brother -in -law would be a brother before a police officer.

[444] I thought it was a terrible idea.

[445] It was a huge conflict of interest.

[446] They were both convinced that he would do the right thing.

[447] I don't want to like bash his character or anything, but that's his brother, you know.

[448] She was reluctant.

[449] She was like, I don't know, I don't know if I should call him.

[450] And I said, no, he's going to help us.

[451] He's going to help you.

[452] He's a good man. He knows the right thing.

[453] He knows what to do.

[454] He'll help you.

[455] She thought of their kids, their home, and their family.

[456] This was going to fundamentally change everything.

[457] I knew something was going to come of whatever just happened over the last hour and a half of my life.

[458] Like, I knew that.

[459] Ashley called her brother -in -law.

[460] Everyone in the family trusted him.

[461] He was a police officer.

[462] so it didn't feel as scary to talk to him.

[463] He would know what to do.

[464] I said, I need to show you something.

[465] It's an emergency.

[466] I just found something, and I need to show you.

[467] I don't want to tell you over the phone.

[468] They agreed to meet up right away at a local grocery store.

[469] I see his car.

[470] I pull in next time, and, you know, we exchange pleasantries.

[471] And I was physically shaking.

[472] I remember feeling my body shaking.

[473] I pulled my phone out and he glances at it.

[474] And it was like, oh, I don't want anything to do with that.

[475] Get it away from me. Don't show me again.

[476] I'm like, what do I do with this?

[477] Like, what do I do?

[478] And he's like, first of all, you need to calm down.

[479] Because we don't know what that is.

[480] Those girls are probably 18.

[481] Like, barely 18, but they're probably 18.

[482] Before you do anything, let's talk to Jay.

[483] And we're going to figure this out because this is definitely not what it looks like.

[484] Let's wait.

[485] The reality was, it was exactly what it looked like, pre -pubescent naked girls who had been posed in a sexually provocative manner.

[486] I was like, he totally just gaslit me. I wanted to get away from him, and so I got in my car.

[487] The text from Jason kept coming in.

[488] We need to talk.

[489] At least allow me to talk to you, please.

[490] Don't go talking with people until you have at least spoken with.

[491] me. Ash, please come home and let's talk.

[492] Please don't give up on me, Ash.

[493] I know I'm a better person than this.

[494] I will get the help I need and quit ignoring my issues.

[495] I want to do right by my family and give you guys a life that you deserve.

[496] What was there to say?

[497] How could he possibly explain?

[498] I called my sister right when I left and I started crying and I can't breathe.

[499] I I couldn't breathe.

[500] I couldn't breathe.

[501] And then all of a sudden, like, I could feel my left side of my face and, like, my shoulder and my arms, it just went numb.

[502] Everything went numb.

[503] And I was like, and I can't move my arm.

[504] I can't move my arm.

[505] My heart hurts because my heart physically hurt.

[506] Like, I had a pain in my chest.

[507] And it went to the back of my shoulder.

[508] I was like, I think I'm having a heart attack.

[509] And then it snapped in my brain.

[510] I was like, the kids, they can't lose both of us on the same day.

[511] And so I was like, Anna, I'm going to go to the hospital.

[512] And she was freaking out.

[513] She's like, don't want me call 911?

[514] And I'm like, no, I'm right down the street from the hospital.

[515] Anna had been in this with Ashley almost from the first moments.

[516] She was really scared.

[517] I told her, I'm going to come to you, just go and get checked out.

[518] and my husband was home and I went upstairs and I told him she's going to the ER and I remember saying something like I can't believe this is happening how is this happening and he just gave me a hug and he said you got to go Ashley is strong, resilient she's a person who helps not a person who needs help so I wasn't surprised when I heard that she tried denying her own distress I parked my car like a normal person and going to a doctor's appointment.

[519] Walking in, I thought to myself, what am I doing?

[520] There's really sick people here that really need to be seen.

[521] And I went up to the desk, and this lady was super sweet, and she's like, what are you being seen for?

[522] And I just lost it.

[523] I sobbed so hard that there was no sound coming out of me, and I just collapsed.

[524] I remember hearing her being like, we need a wheelchair, we need assistance.

[525] Somebody came over and kind of like grabbed me from underneath my arms to pick me up and put me in the wheelchair.

[526] I had my hands cuffed over my eyes because I was so embarrassed that I was like losing my bananas in front of like all these people.

[527] One of the nurses was wheeling me back and she's like, oh honey, it's going to be okay.

[528] You're going to be just fine.

[529] We're going to take care of you.

[530] to be just fine.

[531] Anna at that point had got there.

[532] Her heart rate was at 188 when she got there.

[533] My heart rate doesn't even get up to 188 when I'm, like, doing hardcore exercise.

[534] So it was, like, incredibly high.

[535] I think they gave her some medicine to calm down.

[536] And we just sat there and cried together.

[537] I don't even remember what I told her.

[538] I think I said, I'm sorry.

[539] I'm just so sorry.

[540] I was not having a heart.

[541] attack.

[542] Apparently, that's what a panic attack is.

[543] I had no idea.

[544] That's what a panic attack was.

[545] Once the physical stress subsided, Ashley couldn't help but think about the cost.

[546] It dawned on me how expensive this was going to be, and that now I knew I was going to lose Jason's income.

[547] Like, there was no, ifs, or butt.

[548] Like, whatever it was, I knew that he was no longer going to be a part of it.

[549] And so I was like, no, we're not doing any more tests.

[550] I'm fine.

[551] Ashley's brother -in -law, the police officer, was working behind the scenes and sent Ashley a text.

[552] He's like, I'm meeting Jason right now, and he's going to come to my house, so he can give you some space.

[553] I told my brother -in -law, I do not want to speak to him.

[554] I don't want to talk to him yet.

[555] Then he said, well, let's sleep on it and figure out what to do.

[556] She thought of her brother -in -law as her brother, too.

[557] But he wasn't.

[558] He was Jason's.

[559] It was clear in that moment.

[560] Blood relations were going to matter starting now.

[561] And Anna had enough.

[562] I remember losing Michael.

[563] I'm like, there's nothing to fucking talk through.

[564] And I remember telling her, he's not going to report it, Ash.

[565] He would have reported it by now.

[566] Jason sent one more message.

[567] This one was a video.

[568] I'm sorry, Ash.

[569] I've been really, really working hard on myself.

[570] But this is a cloud that's hung over me. I don't want to be without my family.

[571] I just love you guys so much, and I'm sorry.

[572] I'm just sorry.

[573] His earlier text said, I will get the help I need and quit ignoring my issues.

[574] Now, he said he was working really, really hard on himself.

[575] But it didn't matter.

[576] Ashley never watched the video message.

[577] She didn't want to hear it.

[578] The anger started setting in for all those little girls I saw too.

[579] Anna intervened.

[580] When one of the nurses came in, he was like, is there something we can do?

[581] Do you need to speak to, like, a resource officer?

[582] And I just remember cutting him off.

[583] And I said, we need to see a police officer.

[584] We need to report a crime.

[585] On this season of betrayal, Ashley learns her husband is participating in a crime being perpetrated in every community in our country.

[586] But finds out there's so much more.

[587] Not only was there child pornography that had been downloaded.

[588] but there was also homemade videos.

[589] And we'll meet other families who had no idea they were living with a perpetrator.

[590] I just started screaming.

[591] I remember just dropped to my knees and started screaming.

[592] It's a betrayal of everything you value in your own home and community.

[593] They broke down the front door at our house and came in on him going through all his hard drives trying to delete stuff.

[594] And learning that justice for a felony isn't what you see on TV.

[595] His crime of conviction carries a penalty of one to 15 years in the Utah State Prison.

[596] Did he get that?

[597] No. On the next episode of betrayal, Ashley and the police concoct a plan to bring Jason into custody.

[598] You have the right term ain't silent, so you don't need to say anything to me. Anything you say can, it will be used against the human court.

[599] As a disclaimer, Ashley told her story about her conversation with Jason's older brother to police.

[600] and it was included as part of the affidavit of probable cause that led to Jason's arrest.

[601] His older brother's conduct as a police officer was investigated by the authorities, and ultimately it was determined that there was insufficient evidence of any violations of law by him.

[602] If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team, email us at BetrayalPod at gmail .com.

[603] That's Betrayal P -O -D at gmail .com.

[604] To report a case of child sexual exploitation, call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Cyber Tip Line At 1 -800, The Lost.

[605] If you or someone you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards children, reach out to stopitnow .org .org.

[606] In the United Kingdom, go to stopitnow .org .com.

[607] These organizations can help.

[608] We're grateful for your support.

[609] And one way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

[610] And don't forget to rate and review betrayal.

[611] Five -star reviews go a long way.

[612] A big thank you to all of our listeners.

[613] Betrayal is a production.

[614] of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with IHart Podcasts.

[615] The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasen, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman, Associate Producer, Kristen Malkuri.

[616] Our IHart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crinecheck.

[617] Special thanks to our talent Ashley Lytton and production assistant Tessa Shields.

[618] Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalbekio.

[619] Trails theme composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Mide Music, and for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[620] I'm John Walzac, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona.

[621] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[622] We cloned his voice using AI.

[623] In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode.

[624] Before escaping into the wilderness.

[625] Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[626] Join me. I'm going down in the cave.

[627] As I track down clues.

[628] I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[629] Hunting.

[630] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[631] Robert Fisher.

[632] Do you recognize my voice?

[633] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[634] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard pressed to forget.

[635] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[636] Oh, gosh.

[637] The U .S. The trials is the hardest and most competitive meat in the world.

[638] We are athletes for going out there, smashing into each other, full force.

[639] Listen to The Podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[640] In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared.

[641] I found out what happened to all of them, except one, a woman known as deer, whose estate is worth.

[642] millions of dollars.

[643] I'm Lucy Sheriff.

[644] Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.

[645] Hear the story on Where's Dea?

[646] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.