Winning With Money Is 80% Behavior

[0] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[2] George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, soon to be a number one bestselling author of the book.

[3] Breaking Free from Broke is my co -host today.

[4] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -225.

[5] Dave starts this hour in Madison, Wisconsin.

[6] Dave, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[7] Good afternoon.

[8] Hey, what's up?

[9] My question is, my wife and I are on Baby Step 7, and we want to be able to help out our kids.

[10] We have grown adult kids.

[11] One of them just got married, and the other one is a grad student in college.

[12] And we want to be able to help them in such a way that, you know, whether it's paying, you know, helping pay for a down payment on a house or something like that, We want to help them and have it be a blessing, but not make them feel entitled or not, you know, kind of make them feel like they're just waiting on us to provide.

[13] Mm -hmm.

[14] Are they waiting on you now?

[15] Oh, no, no. So there's not already a sense of entitlement.

[16] You're just worried that handing them $30 ,000 might create more entitlement?

[17] Right.

[18] I mean, you know, we, like, throughout the course of them growing up, you know, we paid for their, state college, you know, we basically provided them, you know, when they graduated from undergrad, you know, we got them a nice, reliable used car and kind of set them on the path and said, all right, you're, you know, you're never going to borrow money to buy stuff like that, you know, the next car you buy, you're going to save up and pay cash for it.

[19] You know, you're, you're not going to have any student loans.

[20] And are they doing, are they doing all of those things?

[21] Yeah.

[22] Okay.

[23] Well, here's the thing.

[24] I don't.

[25] Well, here's the thing.

[26] I think the gift causes the entitlement.

[27] I mean, you could give one person a dollar and they would be entitled and you could give another person a hundred million dollars and they wouldn't feel entitled.

[28] So entitlement is an arrogance.

[29] Entitled is I am due that I'm on third base.

[30] I was born on third base walking around acting like I hit a triple, you know, and you didn't do squat.

[31] You know, so entitlement is, I am due something from someone.

[32] There's an, it's an arrogance.

[33] And it's my right to get this.

[34] I'm entitled to health care.

[35] I'm entitled to something.

[36] And it's basically saying you're willing to, you improperly believe that you have rights over someone else's stuff.

[37] Right?

[38] That makes sense?

[39] so entitlement is an attitude it's not a it's not caused by an amount and so it sounds like you've got really good kids that you're describing yeah yeah i mean they've worked really hard for for everything they have i mean i'm i'm a teacher so uh you know i feel like they you know they we live in a pretty nice suburb and you know the reason that they had their schooling paid for is because we didn't go out and buy all the things that maybe their friends had and You know, we...

[40] But they didn't walk around acting like that you had to do that or you were a bad human.

[41] It was just what you did.

[42] And so, you know, like, you know, I have a friend that bought his kids when they got married, he bought him a paid for house and said, you know, the only thing I asked from you is that you promised to never borrow money the rest of your life.

[43] And those kids have gone on to become millionaires fairly quickly, obviously.

[44] Got a head start with a nice house, you know.

[45] I mean, and they got no payments.

[46] they're piling it up.

[47] But those kids were not entitled at all.

[48] They were just grateful.

[49] And I know the kids well.

[50] And they were, you know, they've gone on to become normal, grown adults.

[51] And they just got a real nice head start because their dad and mom had done well, like you guys.

[52] So I think it's about the attitude.

[53] The thing you don't want to do, I guess one thing you could say is just, you know, don't develop an expectation with this gift of this down payment for this house that I'm always going to be here handing out money.

[54] This is a one -time thing.

[55] And you could just say that one thing to make sure there's clarity about it, right?

[56] But the entitlement has to do with their lack of character, not about you giving them an education or giving them a car or giving them money for a down payment.

[57] Does that make sense?

[58] Yeah.

[59] Yeah.

[60] I mean, I guess The other thing I question I have with that is, you know, I want to, you know, this is a gift.

[61] I mean, I'm not, I know I hear you constantly talk about how, you know, when your kids are grown, you can't use your dad voice anymore, you know, you, they're basically we're walking together as, as friends, and maybe, you know, I can be a mentor, but, you know, I can suggest some things, but ultimately it's their choice.

[62] And so, you know, that's the thing.

[63] Well, you know, my gift would be contingent upon them, you know, doing these things.

[64] I mean, I don't have to, a promise that they continue to go that direction.

[65] And I do have the right to attach that with a gift.

[66] I'll give you an example.

[67] The Ramsey Family Foundation, we give to a lot of ministries.

[68] We do not give to ministries that borrow money.

[69] And so the gift is contingent upon, you know, the fact that that that ministry is not going to go into debt and use some of the money I gave them to pay stinking bank interest.

[70] That'd be stupid.

[71] Dave Ramsey be giving people money for the money.

[72] that, right?

[73] So I mean, but that's a gift that has control on it.

[74] And, you know, if there's going to be a gift in another year, that the follow -up gift will not happen if they have borrowed money during that year.

[75] We stop them.

[76] You know, so it's the same thing.

[77] So it's okay to put a, to attach a contingency to a gift.

[78] Yeah.

[79] And I think the worry for our friend Dave here is that he's worried his generosity of trying to offer them this blessing will turn into laziness.

[80] but he hasn't raised lazy kids.

[81] So this will not cause that to happen.

[82] The gift in and of itself doesn't cause that to happen.

[83] I mean, it can be part of the equation that caused it.

[84] I mean, if you got a trust fund baby that's waiting on, okay, I'm going to, you know, at age 30, you're going to get $2 million.

[85] And so they decide, well, I'm not going to work much.

[86] I'm just going to sit around and wait until I hit 30.

[87] Well, but the problem was it was not just the $2 million at age 30.

[88] The problem was the person you raised to be that, freaking lazy you know that mediocre mindset and so the fact that you plugged that end of them before you made this announcement about this trust gift and so that's the problem with a trust fund baby you know right there the classic stereotype because that's a sense of entitlement well you've said that an eagle that doesn't uh is a turkey an eagle that doesn't leave the nest is called a turkey right i love that and that's i think the worry for every parent out there but he's saying hey my kids they're getting an education, they have jobs, they're getting married, they're not stuck in mom's basement, and he's going, here's $30 ,000.

[89] That's a very different situation.

[90] You should be, in order for a parent and Dave's situation to come alongside and start dumping money on the situation, you should be, they should already be on fire, and you're just adding some fluid.

[91] You're adding a little gas to the fire, not like wet wood is sitting there, we're going to throw some gas on it and hope it lights up.

[92] That's a little different.

[93] That's the difference, right?

[94] I mean, so all you're doing is trying to accentuate the good things that are already happening.

[95] Further, those good things that are already happening, but you're not going to, with a gift like wet wood.

[96] So the kid needs to already be on fire.

[97] That's the deal.

[98] This is the Ramsey Show.

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[120] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[121] Thank you for being with us, America.

[122] We appreciate you.

[123] We appreciate you sharing the show.

[124] click the share button following and subscribing and leaving five star reviews and all those good things thank you when you click subscribe or follow or you click the share button or you take a link and you share it or you tell somebody where you're listening on talk radio it changes our life around here it's our rankings our ratings on every platform have gone up dramatically in the past 12 months and it's largely we're blaming it on you because you shared it thank you George is a big deal, isn't it?

[125] Huge.

[126] And we hit number one on all podcasts recently, which was just mind -blood.

[127] Number one on Apple, big time.

[128] We were doing the same show, which tells me it's largely due to all of the folks out there who are helping us share the spread the word.

[129] Yeah, we didn't suddenly get smarter.

[130] I wish I could say that.

[131] I just had one amazing show, did it, Dave.

[132] So we had a breakthrough.

[133] No, we didn't.

[134] Just still here doing what we do.

[135] Linda's in Phoenix.

[136] Hey, Linda, how are you?

[137] Hi, good.

[138] Good.

[139] How can we help?

[140] Um, so my husband and I, we currently own a home.

[141] We've been here for 12 years.

[142] We have a really awesome interest rate on it, low mortgage.

[143] And we are thinking about buying another house.

[144] And we want to keep our current home as an investment property.

[145] But I'm just a little bit, um, worried that it's going to strap us financially too much and just kind of wanted to get your thoughts.

[146] I wouldn't.

[147] You wouldn't buy it.

[148] No, I mean, I'd sell the house and buy another house, but I wouldn't keep your other house.

[149] I know that because you have a mortgage on it.

[150] And your first goal to becoming wealthy, one of the top two things you need to do, there's two big things to get to the first million to five million in net worth is get your residents paid for, be 100 % debt free, and build up your retirement in mutual funds.

[151] those are the two primary things that cause people to get their first one to five million it is not leveraged borrowed rental property that is not what causes the typical first one to five million all the research we've done studying 10 ,000 millionaires so uh everybody talks about how good rental property is rental property is wonderful if it's paid for and your home is paid for but That's not the situation you're in.

[152] Okay, so you say this house needs to be paid off before, if we wanted to have two.

[153] Well, and you would need to pay cash for the next house.

[154] Okay.

[155] Yeah, we couldn't do that.

[156] I know, I can tell.

[157] Let's pretend you were sitting in a paid -for home and you wanted to buy a rental property.

[158] I would tell you to do that with cash.

[159] It's what I, by the way of done.

[160] By the rental property with cash.

[161] Everything with cash.

[162] Never buy real estate with that.

[163] because here's what happens.

[164] You don't make as much on them because you're eating up your cash flow with payments and all of a sudden the way you're dealing with the tenant changes because you need the rent money to pay the payment.

[165] You know how much I need rent?

[166] I've got a bunch of real estate.

[167] You know how much I have to collect the rent on any of it?

[168] None of it because I don't have any debt.

[169] And so I don't have to put a bad tenant in there.

[170] hoping they'll pay because I got to make the bank note.

[171] Okay, that makes sense.

[172] Yeah.

[173] There's no desperation when you do it that way.

[174] And you're worried that you mentioned that's wisdom.

[175] That's your body telling you this is not a good idea.

[176] And so doing it this way, it's going to take longer, but you're going to do a lot of peace and a lot of patience.

[177] Yeah.

[178] So if I were going to move in your situation, I would just sell that house, move the equity to the next property, get that personal residence paid off, and then start saving and pay cash for your first rental.

[179] That, by the way, is exactly what I did.

[180] The second time I built wealth, the first time I was a millionaire, I did it with borrowed money on real estate, and I went bankrupt and lost everything because I was leveraged up to my eyeballs, and I was stupid.

[181] So I wasn't stupid.

[182] What I was doing was stupid.

[183] And if you're out there doing it, you're not stupid, but what you're doing is really stupid.

[184] So, there we go.

[185] Well, Dave, this is another part I love.

[186] She said, we've been here 12 years.

[187] I love the interest rate.

[188] I don't love the house.

[189] I just love the interest rate.

[190] People are hanging on to this.

[191] Do you love the interest rate that you have?

[192] No, because I don't got one.

[193] The interest rate you have is zero.

[194] I love your interest rate.

[195] Thank you, Dave.

[196] I love my interest rate.

[197] It's zero.

[198] I don't have an interest rate.

[199] But that's the toxic money culture, Dave.

[200] They're saying you should get obsessed with a low interest rate, a low payment.

[201] That's the key.

[202] No, the key is be, you don't know anything.

[203] If you're going to borrow to buy your home, date the rate marry the house the interest rate should be looked at as a temporary thing not something we're going to keep around like a family heirloom so pass it on to my grandkids 10 % we're going to make sure everybody gets you little no that's not that's right though that's how people talk about it and that's not making fun of her that's just what but that's how people think in america today so linda what we're always big on around here is getting you out of debt keeping you out of debt because it is the shortest most sustainable way to build wealth, the shortest path to proven wealth building, because you don't have any payments, you have money, and then you get to buy more stuff and help more people and be more generous.

[204] Chris is in New York City.

[205] Hey, Chris, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[206] Hi, Dave, hi, George.

[207] Thanks for taking my call.

[208] Sure.

[209] What's up?

[210] Well, I am hoping to get some advice from you in terms of streamlining and simple.

[211] identifying our investments.

[212] We rent right now.

[213] We also, our business is mortgaging a property and that's, we have about 350 left in the mortgage.

[214] But we also own outright a rental property that's probably worth about 200.

[215] And I have, we have, my wife and I have about 55 ,000 in a whole life policy and 65 in stocks.

[216] And I was thinking maybe we should sell the very, we should sell the rental and then cash out the life insurance policy and the stocks to pay off, either pay off the mortgage on the business building or to buy a place to live outright.

[217] So I was hoping to, you could help me shift some light.

[218] Oh, either one of those would be a wonderful idea.

[219] Neither one, I mean, either one's fine with me. If you buy a home, then what we're going to do is lean over next and start using cash flow to start paying off the business mortgage.

[220] If you pay off the mortgage, we're going to use the cash flow to start saving up to buy a house.

[221] Either way.

[222] So, I mean, at the end of the story, both properties are debt -free, and that end is not that far down the road.

[223] I mean, at the end of three to five years from today, that's where you ought to be.

[224] What's your household income?

[225] We make about 120 a year.

[226] Okay.

[227] All right.

[228] Right.

[229] And what has made it so difficult is our rent.

[230] It's just really our landlord has been wonderful.

[231] and the rent has been so cheap.

[232] Yeah, that's nice.

[233] I started listening to you about a month ago, you know, and I feel like, yeah, it's time to make things simpler.

[234] Yeah, and I like your idea of simplicity, but also, you know, you may have cheap rent, but that property is going up in value in his name.

[235] You're right.

[236] You're right about that, yeah.

[237] You want to be an owner, not a loaner, man. So you'll get there.

[238] I would do this move anyways.

[239] I would cash out this whole life policy.

[240] I'm selling the stocks, and I think simplifying your life.

[241] Without the volatility of the stocks, without the crappiness of that whole life policy, your life's going to be better.

[242] Yeah, and get rid of the rental and buy you a home.

[243] I love that.

[244] I like that.

[245] You can get you another rental later on down the road.

[246] Yeah, I mean, you make good money and you get the business paid off, and you're sitting there really making some serious money.

[247] No house payment, no business payment, boom, boom.

[248] We've got what we call margin at that point.

[249] Increased cash flow.

[250] Cash flow.

[251] Yeah, money's flying everywhere.

[252] You start stacking cash at that point, and you can get your, I mean, you get yourself in a really, really pretty position.

[253] The thing snowballs in the right direction, you know, because the more of the stuff you own that you don't have payments and you've got a good income, you know, it starts feeding on itself.

[254] And all of a sudden you look over there and where's all this money come from?

[255] Oh, I'm not giving it all to the bank.

[256] I'm not supporting those towers in the skyline that has furniture nicer than I have.

[257] It is amazing when you look at the rental property numbers.

[258] People share and they go, I'm going to go, how much you make in a year off of this?

[259] $1 ,200.

[260] I'm like, you're doing all of this for $1 ,200?

[261] Which also means, by the way, they're probably.

[262] losing money.

[263] Oh, yeah.

[264] At the end of the day.

[265] I mean, that's...

[266] That's not our friend on the call here, but that's many people out there.

[267] They're doing too much at once, fiddling around, trying to skip ahead.

[268] You have $100 a month cash flow.

[269] You're not making money.

[270] Because, I mean, one heating and air filter, and you're done.

[271] You know, oh, my gosh.

[272] You're in the red.

[273] Just one little thing.

[274] One little, one little sink issue.

[275] You're done.

[276] Yeah.

[277] There's no room in that.

[278] That's no fun.

[279] This is The Ramsey Show.

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[287] George Camel Ramsey Personality co -host of Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel Cruz.

[288] He's my co -host today.

[289] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[290] Michael is where there's Michael's in Louisville, Kentucky.

[291] Hey, Michael, how are you?

[292] Great, how are you?

[293] Better than I deserve.

[294] What's up?

[295] My girlfriend and I are getting married this year, and we are combining households.

[296] We both have, she has a grown child, and I have two kids that are getting ready to go into college, and just trying to see what's the best way to kind of combine.

[297] you know with a blended family and assets you know previous assets and things like that what's the best way of going about combining that fairly where you know my kids are taking care of the way I've been planning for years and obviously her thoughts as well with her own well it's an emotional series of decisions and I'm not sure there's a wrong way or a right way to do it it's whatever you guys sit down and come up with is the right way.

[298] I don't think there's an immoral or a moral issue or an ethics issue.

[299] I'm old school on kids.

[300] And so our kids understood when they were growing up that the number one thing in my life was not them.

[301] It was their mother.

[302] It was their mother.

[303] And they gets their second right behind their mother.

[304] But don't get between me and your mother.

[305] That won't work well for you.

[306] and so were I to remarry if Sharon were to pass away I would have the same concerns that you've got but I would want to my first goal would be to that to take care of my wife sure and so my second goal would be if there's anything left we can help the kids but they're like supposed to be grown -ups and on their own correct and I agree I guess more of a technical question too was you know, maybe not.

[307] I have a home that's paid for, and she has a home that's still got a mortgage on it.

[308] Other than that, we don't have any debt.

[309] I have 401K and my retirement and all that.

[310] Basically, she has, basically, her home is her asset that she's been thinking of leaving to her kids or her child, you know, someday or it be her really her only asset that I'm going to combine my home, sell mine entirely, and put all of that into hers.

[311] start to pay off a big chunk of the mortgage and do some improvements and then we yeah which will change her plan that would change her plan if you're going to be living there and she dies and it's her in the council is going to her kids she's going to make her new husband homeless correct after you put money in is there a way to yes i guess that's a way how do you lay things out where i don't i don't know i guess to put her mind at ease i'm not really sure how to word that where you know things will be there's not a there's there there's um i mean you could you could start using a bunch of trusts and have putting things into a trust and the trust has certain terms to it and you're going to spend a ton of money on that um and um but i i think what you're feeling is a natural tension and i would feel the same tension if i were in your shoes and i'm validating that but i think the two of you've got to decide okay Okay, what is more important to the two of you?

[312] If you're going to take several hundred thousand dollars, dump it into her house, right?

[313] And now it becomes our house.

[314] Oh, but wait, it's going to her kids.

[315] Well, that's screwed up.

[316] That's going to create a problem.

[317] And so maybe her plan is going to change now.

[318] You know?

[319] Yeah.

[320] Maybe her new husband is going to get the house if she does.

[321] And really, and my thoughts were whoever goes first, obviously the other person that's everything is theirs and then when they're gone it can go you know three ways to everybody and divide it up however you know you can leave the portion that was going to be her house to her kid and the portion that was going to be your stuff to your kids i mean there's no there's no right or wrong thing and it's not wrong to leave the house to her kid if she wanted to it just leaves you homeless and it's really weird it feels it feels awkward you know but I have seen that.

[322] I've seen where the step -parent gets kicked out upon death.

[323] Yeah.

[324] And it can be really emotionally strenuous.

[325] That's a nice way of saying.

[326] Yeah.

[327] So I think that what I want to encourage you is really push through and don't.

[328] The problem with the other plan is, okay, you leave it all to her, she leaves it all to you.

[329] If you don't do that in a trust that states how things are going to be distributed, then the surviving spouse could change their will after the death of the like say she passed away first she left everything to you four years later you're getting married again you could change the whole will again and her kid ends up getting nothing you legally legally it'd be immoral it'd be unethical for you to do that but but legally there's no way to keep that from happening except to dump it all into a trust upon death and the trust has certain terms and the terms are the distribution, you know, maybe based on the past evaluation to the kiddos upon your death or something like that, because you're not going to be able to undo those trust terms.

[330] So you'd have to see an estate planner to do that.

[331] That would be a mechanical way, a tactical way to pull it off.

[332] Now, Dave, would it be simpler to turn this into cash?

[333] Let's say they sell the property and she would get that amount, let's say, of the equity, as it stands today in an investment account.

[334] but that simplify things?

[335] Well, she's, I mean, then he's buying the only house.

[336] Because they have two houses right now.

[337] They're paid for one and the mortgage one.

[338] Yeah, but I'm saying either way, she's either got her cash sitting over here to the side, but if she passes away, she's just going to leave that cash, nothing to her husband, you know, everything to her kid.

[339] I, you know.

[340] So the key is there's a lot of ways to skin this cap, but we have to be in agreement with both spouses, which is the hardest part.

[341] Yeah, and just promising that you'll do it in your will is not binding legally.

[342] I'm not an attorney, but you'll find that out when you go sit with your estate planning attorney.

[343] That's what they're going to tell you.

[344] But leaving it into a trust, you could do that.

[345] You could set terms of the trust and it's locked in.

[346] There's nothing you can do about it.

[347] If I was in their shoes, I'd sit with the estate planning attorney, have them lay out all of the options, and then we agree, which is the best route.

[348] Yeah.

[349] And then, but here's the thing, part of what you're struggling with is before they met her children were her, her everything, even though they're grown.

[350] His children, since he's divorced or his wife, first wife passed away, whatever, his children are his only concern, priority wise.

[351] And this new relationship changes the priority.

[352] The spouse now takes that.

[353] It challenges the priority position.

[354] in your emotions and so that that's the hard thing to walk through and it's very real i mean i i haven't had to do it thank god but um but you know it is a very very real thing it's it's um you know but you i'd like to think that i would want to make sure my new wife was taken care of before i worried about my grown kid you'd hope the kid would understand but i'm sure it causes relational turmoil i don't care i don't care i mean It's, you know, what is, what's the primary relationship?

[355] Who's your first team?

[356] Then who's your second team?

[357] And that's what we're talking about here.

[358] And so the kiddos growing up, understood, they're second team.

[359] You know, we love you.

[360] They're the B team.

[361] And we'll take a bullet for you.

[362] But, you know, your mom's coming first.

[363] Your mom's in front of you in priority.

[364] That's how this works.

[365] I love the idea of the kids being so self -sustaining.

[366] They're not needing whatever's on the other side.

[367] Yeah, and that changes the whole equation when somebody doesn't, feel entitled to it or need it.

[368] The kid says, well, that was my one shot at home ownership, was getting mom's house, and now you ruined it.

[369] Well, they feel like that dad's assets are somehow they're entitled to them.

[370] They're not entitled to them.

[371] You have absolutely no moral or ethical obligation to leave your children money.

[372] So your kids doing heroin, don't leave them money.

[373] You'll kill them because you will leave them enough to buy enough heroin to kill themselves.

[374] So you, you know, if you're, you know, think, whatever other.

[375] fill in the blank of any misbehavior said misbehavior you will magnify the misbehavior so you I am under no obligation to leave my children money and by the way that's very clear around our place they're grown and we're like you know you're I manage these assets for God if you're not walking with God then you don't have the opportunity to manage his assets boom you're out sorry sorry Charlie just like that Charlie yeah King Charles Rachel's smallest just and he is a king he sleeps on a queen bed already so that's the most impressive part i'm just saying yeah that's a neat question michael and i i struggle with you on it but i encourage you to get closure on it don't just assume because you know what that does yeah this is the ramsay show i've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls i have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[376] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially, the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[377] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[378] When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

[379] How am I going to eat next week?

[380] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[381] Like, it's just, it is, it's terrible.

[382] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm, like, so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[383] Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[384] And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[385] It doesn't cost much.

[386] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[387] You've got to say it out loud and you've got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[388] The cost of stinking pizza.

[389] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -4282.

[390] That's 800 -356 -4282 or go to zander .com.

[391] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[392] Thank you for joining us.

[393] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[394] All right, America.

[395] Ready for a pop quiz?

[396] What percentage of Americans say they live paycheck to paycheck?

[397] Oh, pick me. Pick me. Oh, the big guy in the front row.

[398] That's me. George.

[399] I'm going to go 7 out of 10.

[400] Yeah, this survey says 65 % say they do.

[401] Six and a half people out of ten.

[402] There we go.

[403] Half a person.

[404] And the, you know, I've heard as high as 78 % actually do.

[405] So somewhere around seven houses out of ten on your street, have too much month left at the end of the money.

[406] Looking good and broke.

[407] BROK -E broke.

[408] Sitting at a stoplight burning gas they bought on a credit card.

[409] Or worse, electricity that they financed on a credit card.

[410] Oh, yikes.

[411] Pick it on George here.

[412] That's even worse.

[413] So you can stay stuck in the cycle, paycheck to paycheck, rat in a wheel, or you can change something.

[414] Stupid has a gravitational pull.

[415] Once you get stuck in the orbit around stupid, it's hard to break the orbit.

[416] And you just keep going and going and going and going.

[417] And you're the wrong kind of ever -ready bunny, right?

[418] Just a rat in a wheel, just going and going and going.

[419] no traction, living a life of mediocrity, no hope, not fired up.

[420] That's most people.

[421] You don't want to be like that.

[422] Let me tell you how you get out of an orbit, even if it's orbiting stupid.

[423] You have to expend energy to break the orbit.

[424] You have to break the cycle, break the family curse, break the way you grew up and the way you look at things, the way they talked in your neighborhood, the way the kids I hung out with it work.

[425] Well, little man can't get ahead.

[426] Thank God it's Friday.

[427] Oh, God, it's Monday.

[428] We're all just stuck.

[429] Sure hope we can elect a president who'll fix my life because I'm not going to do anything about it.

[430] If you grow up around that, man, I'm telling you.

[431] That's the worst country son.

[432] Eeyore is your spirit animal.

[433] I mean, come on.

[434] Seriously.

[435] Yeah.

[436] So, to kick off the year, we're going to help you.

[437] We're going to host a free live stream this Thursday, January the 11th, at 7 p .m. Central.

[438] 352 ,000 people have already registered.

[439] It's the largest live stream we've ever done.

[440] It's officially the largest.

[441] It's me, Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, George Camel to my right, and Jade Washaw are going to talk about navigating money anxiety, bad money habits that keep you stuck and how to break them, practical money tips that actually work.

[442] we're going to help you break the cycle and we're going to give away $10 ,000.

[443] 10 people are going to get $1 ,000 each during the viewing.

[444] You have to be watching or you're not going to get it because that's going to be part of the deal, okay?

[445] So if you want to sign up, you want to watch, we would love to have you.

[446] It's this Thursday night at 7 o 'clock breaking the cycle.

[447] You go to ramsysolutions .com slash break the cycle.

[448] It's completely free, by the way.

[449] Completely free.

[450] Hello, did I mention it's free.

[451] It's amazing.

[452] and it's going to be about an hour long.

[453] So I'm just picturing if you just spend one hour with us hanging out on a free live stream, it could change how this whole year goes for you financially.

[454] If we can change how you think and how you look at this, then it'll change what you do.

[455] And if we can help you change what you do, then you're going to change your results, and your results will change your life.

[456] Now, we're not going to change your life.

[457] You're going to go do it.

[458] You're the hero in the story.

[459] We're just going to show you how.

[460] We really know how to do this.

[461] We're going to break you free from the orbit and get you on a different path.

[462] Yeah, and just say, you know, this is, you've been believing some stuff you didn't need to belief.

[463] You're better than your belief.

[464] Well, especially going into an election year.

[465] I feel like everyone just gets angry.

[466] Everybody's worried about inflation.

[467] The anxiety is so high out there.

[468] They're worried about interest rates.

[469] Man, I'm worried about, is the market going to crash?

[470] I'm worried about this.

[471] Worried about that.

[472] And let me tell you what.

[473] We can show you what today.

[474] We can show you the process.

[475] And it's not magical.

[476] It's not get rich quick.

[477] It's not easy.

[478] I mean, we're going to teach you important things like live on less than you make.

[479] You ready to do that?

[480] There's a whole new idea.

[481] Concept, Congress can't grasp.

[482] Nicola is with us in Jacksonville, Florida.

[483] Hi, Nicola.

[484] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[485] Oh, Mr. Ramsey.

[486] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[487] I hope all as well with you.

[488] So I, in my 20s, I listened to your, read your books and purchased a home at 27.

[489] However, I lost my job after 10 years, and I sold my condo in 2016.

[490] I live at home.

[491] I'm now 42, and I created a lot of debt for my.

[492] myself.

[493] But I want to purchase a condo in 2025.

[494] So I just wanted your advice in a strategy on how, what, what debt to pay down first.

[495] I have $10 ,000 in total debt, three personal loans, three credit cards.

[496] And I have $45 ,000 student loan debt.

[497] I'm still in school seeking my master's and I'll be done at the end of the year.

[498] So I'm not currently paying that.

[499] Right now, I have $36 ,420 in my 401K.

[500] I know I borrowed from my 401k $20 ,000 to pay off my debt, which I accrued again.

[501] So right now, biweekly, I'm paying 171 .94 at 4 .5 % interest on my 401K.

[502] All right.

[503] So what is your total debt outside of, you don't have a mortgage now?

[504] So what's your total consumer debt?

[505] 10 plus 45 plus 20 on the 401, right?

[506] Yes 75 65 No the 401 is 36 ,000 420 No the loan balance The loan on the 401 is 20 Oh I'm sorry $14 ,000 left to pay Oh 14 on that Okay Yeah And it's 171 by weekly On my paycheck and a 4 .5 So you got about $70 ,000 in debt And you make what Right now it's just You got to raise So 60 ,000 400.

[507] I, you know, wasn't making much, but now I am making more, and I recently paid off my car in 2021.

[508] Unless your income changes, you're not going to buy a house in 25.

[509] Right.

[510] What's your master's in?

[511] What, what...

[512] A condo.

[513] I wanted a condo.

[514] I work in education.

[515] I work in education, so it's obviously, you don't create that much in education, so...

[516] Well, this master's increased your income?

[517] No, not much.

[518] Then why are you doing it?

[519] It's required.

[520] Well, it's required.

[521] Well, it's required.

[522] Um, right now I'm not paying for it.

[523] The school pays for it.

[524] And because I work in education, it's required to have a higher degree, but the school pays 90 % of that.

[525] Nicola, you need to pay off $70 ,000.

[526] Say it, save up a down, save up an emergency fund and save up a down payment.

[527] Well, right now I have, uh, $3 ,500.

[528] I just don't know if I should, but I have three personal loans, um, 35, 35, 25, 25, 25.

[529] Yeah.

[530] And you have 40, $4 ,000.

[531] Yeah.

[532] And you have $35 ,000 in student loan debt, and you have $20 ,000 on a 401k.

[533] You have $70 ,000 in debt.

[534] Okay, I didn't look at it like that, but yes.

[535] So here's the hard truth.

[536] You're not going to be ready to buy a house a year from now.

[537] It may be two or three years from now.

[538] Wow.

[539] We have to get rid of the debt completely.

[540] You don't have $70 ,000 coming in in the next 12 months.

[541] You have $60 ,000 coming in and you have $70 ,000 in debt.

[542] Right.

[543] Yeah.

[544] What I was thinking maybe I should pay off my save -up this year, pay off, you know, my 401K, the $14 ,000 just flat out paid off, or if I should pay the high interest rate that I have on the personal loan.

[545] I think we're beyond the math of interest rates.

[546] I would just list all of your debts out from smallest to largest, make minimum payments on all of the debts except for the smallest one.

[547] And we're going to attack that one with a vengeance, as much extra on the principle as you can throw at it.

[548] and that might mean you're doing side jobs after your master's program after your full -time job.

[549] And you complete your master's, when?

[550] And the end of this year.

[551] So 12 more months?

[552] Uh -huh.

[553] Okay.

[554] All right.

[555] Do you have any time to do tutoring while you're working on your master's?

[556] Not really.

[557] I mean, the job is pretty demanding.

[558] You know, sometimes I do have to work weekends.

[559] Now, you said you're living at home with your parents?

[560] Yes, I do.

[561] Okay, so you have almost no expenses?

[562] What are you having to pay for right now?

[563] The loans that I have and the credit cards, I do give them, contribute, $600, but it's the loans that I have, a personal loan, you know, situations happen, and obviously I did that, but...

[564] Okay, honey, you're going to have to draw a line in the sand and quit borrowing money.

[565] I don't hear any more about your situations.

[566] You've situations yourself into your parents' basement, and you've got to quit situating.

[567] So, cut up the credit cards, get yourself on a...

[568] Beans and rice, rice and beans budget.

[569] Anything you can do to increase your income, like tutoring, let's go do it.

[570] And let's start attacking these debts, just exactly like George said, smallest to largest.

[571] And it's going to take you a little while to clear $70 ,000 in debt.

[572] When you get that clear, you can talk about buying a house.

[573] You may go rent something in the meantime, but I wouldn't buy until you get this mess cleaned up.

[574] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people.

[575] build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[576] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[577] Thank you for joining us.

[578] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[579] Starting this hour off is going to be Jenny in Columbus, Ohio.

[580] Hi, Jenny.

[581] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[582] Hi, thanks for having me. Sure.

[583] How can we help?

[584] my husband and I are on baby step two and we are all in I've got a second job he's working overtime we're selling everything but our kid um we're all in however um we are looking at anywhere depending on what option we pick at the dentist we're looking at anywhere from 10 to 50 thousand dollars worth of work needed on my husband's teeth um I don't know how to do without taking all more debt what's your household income 170 well I do you save up $10 ,000 well okay so the $10 ,000 um gets us 10 years they said and then he'd probably have to have the work done again do you still think that's the best option or should we wait or should we try to do the $50 ,000 option which is a fix for the rest of his life Um, B or C, none of the above.

[585] I want you to go talk to two other dentists.

[586] Okay.

[587] I'm calling BS.

[588] Okay.

[589] Unless your husband has some kind of disease, 50 ,000 is out of control.

[590] I am not a medical professional.

[591] It's for a dental implant.

[592] I know, but it's not, okay, then it's not 50 grand.

[593] Let's go shopping.

[594] Okay.

[595] Let's go shopping.

[596] Okay.

[597] Okay.

[598] Okay.

[599] Because the thing, I don't know beans about being a dentist, okay?

[600] But what I do know from having sat in this chair for 30 years is that I've had a lot of people bring me dramatic numbers like you just did.

[601] And I send them back to the marketplace and they, there's a lot of other ways to do this.

[602] And it turns out and a lot of different pricing structures and so forth.

[603] For some reason when it comes to medical or dental or things like this, we don't shop like we if if you were buying a car and someone said you could buy a $50 ,000 car or a $10 ,000 car you would say okay tell me about it and and then I'm going to keep looking at cars I'm going to keep shopping and then I'm going to have a lot of things to compare with not just two of these options so but for some reason all of us you included just except well it's $50 ,000 it doesn't have said so um doc said it's this and no there's a vast array of pricing structures in that world So I want to go shopping and then, yes, I'll put, let's pretend you can fix this for $10 ,000 or $15 ,000 or $20 ,000 even, okay, for implants, okay?

[604] Okay.

[605] Something more permanent.

[606] And you don't have to cheap out, but you also don't have to go bananas, okay?

[607] So then the answer to your question is, how do you pull that off?

[608] You make $170.

[609] You just slow your debt snowball and pile up $20 ,000, depending on the urgency, the amount of pain he's in or whatever is you're facing is how fast you do it.

[610] If it's me and I'm hurting, we're going to do it fast because I'm a complete wuss.

[611] You want it over with quickly?

[612] I don't do pain.

[613] I'm a wuss.

[614] Sharon has the pain tolerance of a Navy seal.

[615] I get a hangnail, and I'm in the floor crying like a four -year -old.

[616] So, no, I mean, so I'm going to write some checks.

[617] Yeah.

[618] And get out of pain is what I'm going to do.

[619] But anyway, so I just depend on the urgency of the situation.

[620] And if what she's saying is true, let's say 10 ,000 buys are 10 years, well, 10 years from now, you're going to be in a very different place financially.

[621] In two years, it might be debt -free, and you could do whatever you want.

[622] I don't know if I want to rent my teeth for 10 years.

[623] But anyway, I'm confused.

[624] I didn't know it was like an H -FAC.

[625] Like, well, this thing will keep it running for the next 10 years.

[626] I don't know what they're doing to his mouth there.

[627] It's a very strange diagnosis.

[628] I can tell you this.

[629] There's the cost, it's $400 ,000 to become a dentist now.

[630] And then buying into a practice would be another half a million or so.

[631] And so there's a whole...

[632] business side of dentistry that allows them to sell a vast array of products.

[633] I've fallen for it.

[634] Every time I go in there, they have a new technology they've purchased that can now do this new thing.

[635] And it's for $50 a tooth.

[636] We can do this for you.

[637] Otherwise, it'll be $300 later on if you get the cavity.

[638] And I'm like, I don't, it's so stressful.

[639] That's called practice management.

[640] They're in sales.

[641] Which is medical talk for sales.

[642] Okay.

[643] Okay.

[644] So I'm not accusing this dentist of malpractice.

[645] I'm just saying he's willing to sell.

[646] Implants are the most expensive piece.

[647] Willing to sell old Jenny a Bentley.

[648] That's all I'm saying.

[649] I'm seeing on Google, Dave, one to $1 ,000 to $5 ,000 per implanted tooth is what the going rate is.

[650] So if he's talking many, many teeth, it could be 50 grand.

[651] It could be.

[652] Okay.

[653] Depending.

[654] All right.

[655] Google, we know Google's right.

[656] Always right.

[657] I go to WebMD for all of my health needs.

[658] Yeah.

[659] Yeah.

[660] If you go to WebMD, you're dying.

[661] You have three days to live.

[662] That's it.

[663] You've got three days to live.

[664] Everything is three days to live.

[665] Or it's a minor head cold.

[666] Three days to live.

[667] And $1 ,000 a tooth.

[668] Yeah, three days to live.

[669] Seriously, shop it, Jenny.

[670] That's what I would do.

[671] And then if you need $20 ,000, slow down your, you got $170 coming in, slow down your debt snowball enough at the speed of the urgency to come up with the $20K.

[672] If you're going to wait 10 months, it'll be $2 ,000 a month.

[673] We're going to do it over 10 months.

[674] If we need to do it right now, we're going to have to stop everything and do it over two or three months, right?

[675] And so however quick you can build up the $2, 20K, but it is going to impact and slow down your debt snowball speed because this is something you have to deal with.

[676] Your husband's dental health does matter, and we're not blowing that off.

[677] Hey, thanks for the call.

[678] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[679] Thank you for joining us, America.

[680] We appreciate you being here.

[681] and I mean this is how it's done boys and girls we you know it's um man george your brand new book coming out next week Tuesday January 16th called breaking free from broke the ultimate guide to more money and less stress you can see right there on the cover there's a millennial holding up the wall that's all you need to know so if if millennials can hold up walls then they can do anything right I had to flex my muscles.

[682] That's it.

[683] I've got an interesting question about this, Dave.

[684] People keep asking, well, how is this different from the total money makeover?

[685] And it's been an interesting question because I believe it's very different.

[686] The first two -thirds of this book are really unpacking probably the most in -depth we've ever done on the toxic money culture, all of the different types of debt with research from, you know, these last few years.

[687] I mean, if you want some in -depth stuff on any of the financial things moving around out there, this book's got it in there.

[688] and Total Money Makeover has none of that.

[689] Total Money Makeover is the baby steps.

[690] It's how to do it.

[691] I'll do the baby steps.

[692] Yeah, this book has a little.

[693] I cover the baby steps and I go, cats out of the bag, but we're going to have to unpack why to do the baby steps.

[694] What's underneath this all?

[695] The research in this and the snark in this is incredible.

[696] So, but let me tell you, living on a lesson you make, living on a budget, being generous, getting out of debt, saving money is going to be in every Ramsey book in one form or another.

[697] Nothing new under the sun.

[698] We didn't change that for Jade or George or Rachel.

[699] It's going to be there.

[700] So every Ramsey Money book anyway, it's not going to be in John Deloney's book, but even part of it's in John Deloney's book.

[701] So be sure to pre -order.

[702] January 15th is your last day to get $100 in bonus items at ramsysolutions .com slash store.

[703] Thank you to so many of you who have already done that.

[704] I hope this book helps you take the right next step with your finances this year.

[705] George Camel, Ramsey, personality is my co -host.

[706] Thank you for joining us, America.

[707] We're glad you're here.

[708] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[709] Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services.

[710] No more scrolling through pages of Internet results.

[711] Neighborly is the one place.

[712] You'll find a variety of home service professionals that you can rely on to do the job right, or Neighborly will make it right.

[713] That's the Neighborly done right promise.

[714] Learn more at neighborly .com slash Ramsey.

[715] Today's question comes from Sherry in Vermont.

[716] Hello, Mr. Ramsey.

[717] Can you please explain why the most common form of income mentioned is gross income, not net income, when discussing budgets and personal finances?

[718] I find it confusing because in my mind, the deducted taxes don't count.

[719] You can't spend what you owe the government, so if you include that, it makes it seem like you have more discretionary income than you actually do.

[720] Thank you for the clarification.

[721] Well, it depends on what we're talking about.

[722] The problem is, honestly, Sherry, the – too many people don't know – I'm going to say this delicately.

[723] They don't know what to flip their own money is.

[724] I mean, so here's the thing.

[725] If you make $60 ,000 a year, that's $5 ,000 a month, gross, before taxes.

[726] But if I ask you what your net is, and you say $2 ,500, which is $30 ,000.

[727] year.

[728] Then I've got to go try to figure out because you apparently don't know whether you have taken out 401k out of that, health insurance out of that, whether you have your car payment deducted out of that and it's going to your credit union.

[729] That's not real net, but it is what you're coming home with because you had all these other crap taken out of your check.

[730] And so a lot of people don't really understand that net, what you get your take home pay because people have various things taken out is not germane.

[731] I can tell what's going on with your gross, but I can't, and I know about what your taxes are based on your gross, but, and then I can do the calculations while we're sitting here to help you move towards getting out of debt, but I'm well aware if you make $60 ,000 a year, $5 ,000 a month that you're not getting home with after federal income tax withholding $5 ,000.

[732] I know that, but I also know that you should be getting home with a lot more than some of you are.

[733] Some of you have too much taken out of your check.

[734] Your deductions are wrong.

[735] Some of you have other things that aren't taxes coming out of your check, like I just mentioned.

[736] And so when I say take, when someone gives me take home pay, I really don't know what they're talking about because it could mean so many different things.

[737] But I can back into it from gross and know where you stand.

[738] So that's why I use that figure.

[739] But it's not because I don't realize there's taxes taken out.

[740] It's because I do realize.

[741] there's a bunch of other crap taken out of other people's checks, and sometimes they're so confused by that, because you really can talk to somebody that's a $5 ,000 gross, and they're getting home with half of that.

[742] Or if they have an irregular income, there can be very confused based on what's going to come in that month.

[743] What's your take -home pay?

[744] So the, hey, what did you make last year?

[745] If you're self -employed, you know, you don't have a take -home pay, you know, unless you set yourself up on a salary and you've done withholding, then did you do your withholding correctly?

[746] because way too many people get a tax refund, which means you have too much coming out of your check for taxes.

[747] It doesn't mean Santa Claus lives in Washington, D .C. And so if you have too much coming out of your check and then I use your take -home pay number to try to help you with your finances, then I've participated in your stupid mistake, you know?

[748] And so that's why we do that, because the only reliable number to back into things is your gross.

[749] And yes, obviously, Sherry, we do realize it comes out taxes.

[750] And we use some round numbers, too, when we're just on a five -minute phone call.

[751] We're not digging in to the exact mathematics.

[752] But your brain is pretty good.

[753] I mean, the lady a few minutes ago, $170 ,000 is her gross.

[754] And I know she's not getting home with $170, but also know that with $170 ,000, she can come up with $15 ,000 or $20 ,000 for her husband's tea.

[755] I mean, I can, that's taken home eight or nine.

[756] They could probably live off half.

[757] Not rocket surgery to do that basic math right there.

[758] And so, but I don't have to actually go, well, let's see her.

[759] Hax withholding.

[760] And I don't have to, you don't have to do it.

[761] You don't have to all that.

[762] She's out of 170 minus income taxes, minus food, she can still find 20 to fix her resume's teeth.

[763] I mean, that's just doesn't take them, you know, a sixth grader to do that.

[764] So, hypothetically, but that's why, that's why.

[765] I know you can't spend what you owe the government.

[766] I'm well aware of that.

[767] They, they take so much from me that it, I can't breathe.

[768] Aiden is with us in Tampa, Florida.

[769] Hi, Aiden.

[770] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[771] Hi, how you doing?

[772] Better than I deserve.

[773] What's up?

[774] Great.

[775] I'm 22.

[776] I just got married in October.

[777] Congratulations.

[778] Thank you.

[779] Thank you.

[780] Yeah, we make around $115 ,000 right now.

[781] We both contribute 10 % to our IRA for work.

[782] We're debt -free.

[783] And our question is around housing.

[784] We have enough for about a 10 % down payment on the house we want to buy.

[785] And our question is, should we go ahead and do that and pay the PMI, or should we wait a couple of years and just save up 20 %?

[786] Well, I doubt it'd take you a couple of years.

[787] You'd probably do it by a year from now, couldn't you?

[788] Yeah, I think so.

[789] I think the math I was looking at it would be about a year and a half.

[790] Okay.

[791] All right.

[792] So you'll be a whole 24 years old when you buy your first house.

[793] That's the goal.

[794] Yeah, that wouldn't be bad.

[795] I like that.

[796] No. I just, I mean, it's okay to do it the other way, but the PMI is so stinking expensive, man. I mean, it's $75 a month per $100 ,000.

[797] So $225 if you do it.

[798] $300 ,000 house.

[799] What does this house cost?

[800] Aidan, what's this house going to cost?

[801] Yeah, about $300 ,000 is what we're thinking.

[802] My wife works for a home builder, so you get a good deal.

[803] So you got $30 ,000, and you want $60 ,000.

[804] So the question is, how quickly can we save up another $30, making $150?

[805] You really ought to be able to do that in a year, dude.

[806] You have other debt?

[807] That's what we're thinking.

[808] You said you had no other debt, right?

[809] Oh, good.

[810] Yeah, I think I'm going to sit down, do the budget, and tighten up and say, hey, we're not going to buy that thing and we're not going to buy that thing and we're going to save for a house and that's what I would do if I were you guys.

[811] And you're investing 10 % you're in Baby Step 3B and so if you so choose and you wanted to do this in six months you could pause investing or bring it down to a match or something like that in order to speed this up.

[812] Yeah.

[813] I think you can, I think you'll be and if you're building a house the two, you're not going to be closing on it when you break ground.

[814] That's exactly the matter of us.

[815] You could break ground you know next spring one year and still have time to get the money together to have the 20 % down.

[816] So I just don't want to give them PMI.

[817] Private mortgage insurance, folks, if you don't know, is foreclosure insurance.

[818] It pays the mortgage company in the event they have to foreclose on you and they lose money.

[819] That's what PMI is.

[820] It's private mortgage insurance.

[821] It protects the lenders, not you.

[822] It protects the lenders.

[823] It's not life insurance.

[824] It's not insured.

[825] You are buying someone else.

[826] an insurance policy.

[827] It's a risky borrower fee.

[828] At $75 a month per $100 ,000, if you're buying a $300 ,000 house, it's $225 a month.

[829] On top of your interest that you're throwing away.

[830] So it definitely hurts.

[831] But I was in the same spot as Aiden, Dave.

[832] Our first townhome was $300 ,000.

[833] It was a new construction build.

[834] And every delay, I was happy because it was more time we could save up.

[835] And so we were able to put down well over 20 percent because of that and it allowed us to pay it off even sooner.

[836] Did you, you didn't purposefully cause any delays, did you?

[837] No. That's just a construction business, Dave.

[838] I learned I learned I had to, I had to manage the project myself.

[839] I had to show up there and be like, that towel bar is not even centered on the wall.

[840] I'm not a construction expert, but I feel like it should be centered.

[841] Wow.

[842] And so a lot of things need to be.

[843] That really happened, didn't it?

[844] Yeah, that's real life.

[845] That's, that real, you really did do a towel bar thing, yeah.

[846] Because that, you had too much passion about that for that being a job.

[847] So much passion about the towel bar.

[848] That's, um, but you know, you've been in Nashville a long time.

[849] The amount of construction that's gone up in the last five years even is wild.

[850] And these builders, you know, they're moving as fast as they can, but they run into delays and subcontractors are moving around and going to the next guy who will pay him a dollar more.

[851] And so it can be, it can be tough.

[852] Now things have slowed down, which is great.

[853] You get a little more attention on these builds.

[854] Yeah, I'll probably keep the towel bar centered.

[855] Keep the towel bar centered.

[856] That's all I ask.

[857] I'm OCD.

[858] It's got to stay symmetrical.

[859] It's a big deal.

[860] But new builds, as you know, Dave, they can be a blessing and they can be a curse.

[861] And so we were happy to have it, but Getting there was a journey.

[862] The amount of blue tape on the walls, Dave, every little, nook and cranny.

[863] George, you blew taped them, too?

[864] I blew taped the heck out of those walls.

[865] Oh, man, you're that guy.

[866] Yeah.

[867] Okay.

[868] They didn't like me. They were ready for me to be done.

[869] Yeah.

[870] Gotta get rid of OCD George.

[871] It's the biggest purchase of my life, Dave.

[872] I wanted it done right.

[873] OCD George, he's the towel rack guy, the blue tape guy.

[874] I've complained more at Chick -fil -A to get the order right, let alone my house.

[875] Oh, you complained at Chick -fil -A?

[876] It's happened.

[877] Are you going to heaven?

[878] They're not always perfect.

[879] They're not always angels, Dave.

[880] This is the Ramsey Show.

[881] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[882] Sarah is with us in Seattle.

[883] Hi, Sarah.

[884] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[885] Hey, Dave and George.

[886] Thanks for taking my call.

[887] How are you?

[888] Better than we deserve.

[889] What's up?

[890] Well, my husband and I are pretty young.

[891] We're 24.

[892] Over the last three years, we've paid off all of our debt.

[893] You know, college and a car, we've paid.

[894] for our wedding in cash.

[895] But since we started working, we've actually tripled our income.

[896] So now it's about $400 ,000 a year.

[897] Good Lord.

[898] What do you guys do?

[899] We work in tech.

[900] In what?

[901] In tech.

[902] Okay.

[903] They work in tech in Seattle, so I could guess where that might be.

[904] Okay.

[905] Well, good for you.

[906] Way to go.

[907] You know, thank you so much.

[908] And that kind of leads to my question.

[909] You know, as the baby steps layout, we're moving on to the next phase of wealth building.

[910] We've maxed out our 401ks, our HSA contributing to an IRAs, mutual funds.

[911] We don't have a desire to buy a house soon, but maybe we'll just save up for a down payment to be able to do that down the line if we choose.

[912] But since neither of us grew up with this kind of wealth or anywhere close to it, all of it kind of feels excessive almost.

[913] So how do you guys think about what a reasonable amount is to be saving versus spending?

[914] We don't want to be excessive favors and missing out on generosity and enjoying the now, but also we don't want to be excessive spenders.

[915] So since it's new territory, I was curious if you could share your insight on that.

[916] There's a lot of wisdom there.

[917] Well done.

[918] Very well done.

[919] Thank you.

[920] Well, the experience that most people have, and I've had it as well, is that as your income increases and it goes places you've never been before, it takes your emotions a while, to catch up which kind of causes you to ask this question yeah okay it's like you know giving extreme example um i mean i own ramesy solutions our gross revenues here are about 300 million a year and i've got a thousand team members we spend more on coffee than i used to make you know it's kind of it's kind of emotionally mind -blowing you know what i'm talking about and so yeah um it's uh it's hard to your head around.

[921] So how do you go?

[922] It almost feels immoral or unethical unless you really start to put some, you know, put put some help to it to help with the emotions.

[923] So one of the things I've discovered, and I, you know, when I'm working, for instance, with a pro athlete, I'll use this, is we just always say, Sharon and I work off of percentages.

[924] We say this percent of our income.

[925] If I get a check in from a publisher, total money makeover check comes in, which is usually a pretty nice check each year.

[926] And that check comes in.

[927] A percentage goes to investing a certain percentages that preset.

[928] A preset goes to additional purchases and enjoyment.

[929] A preset amount goes to additional generosity, additional investing.

[930] Now, 50 % of it's gone before we start because 40 % it goes to taxes and 10 % to tithe because we're evangelical Christians.

[931] Okay.

[932] So that leaves me the other 50 % to split up among fun, investing, and additional generosity.

[933] And so we just put a percentage on that.

[934] And so that's what you can do.

[935] You can just say, so for instance, here, you're in Baby Step 4 and you're saving towards a house.

[936] So I would put 15 % of my income towards retirement, right?

[937] And you ought to be doing that anyway.

[938] That's a standard baby step move.

[939] and then I'm going to put X percent for enjoyment and then you kind of like have to spend that on enjoyment even if it feels weird yeah because when you were thinking about it not in terms of a purchase you wanted to make but you were just thinking about it in the in general terms and you said okay we're going to spend 10 % of this money on us as an example I just pull that number out okay so that's $40 ,000 of just increased lifestyle and that's a that would be leaving 90 % for everything else taxes and generosity and investing and everything else so that would be you know we can't really say that would be crazy but yet then when you get ready spend 40 ,000 dollars on something oh my gosh what in the world that feels so weird but it helps you to do that because oh I've done my generosity I've done my investing and these are amounts I came up or percentages I came up with so because your income could go to $600 ,000 then what are you going to do?

[940] I don't want to, I wouldn't use an amount.

[941] I would use a percentage.

[942] That's really helpful.

[943] I think that's exactly my word, not worry.

[944] I mean, what a blessed problem to have, but, you know, we're 24, so presumably this isn't going to be the peak of our income.

[945] And so thinking about it as percentages is so helpful.

[946] I hadn't thought about that.

[947] Yeah, it'll keep you from underdoing an area or overdoing an area.

[948] Yeah.

[949] Because you thought about it, and you thought about it in ratios when your head was calm, not when you were, because if you wait until you're looking at an opportunity to support a thing with generosity, a ministry or something, you're emotionally involved then.

[950] And so, you know, I want to help that thing.

[951] I want to cause, I want to help those people with that situation, these hungry, kids or whatever it is, right?

[952] By then, by then you're already, you're already deep into it.

[953] And then you start going, well, you know, I don't know if this is right or not.

[954] And I may be going too much and you could do too much.

[955] You could get all caught up in the, you know, the beautiful little children that need some food.

[956] And you could just give away, you know, you go crazy.

[957] And so that's, that really helps to lay out ratios.

[958] Yeah, well, I think of it as that kind of tire and you don't want a flat tire.

[959] If you're only saving, you're not enjoying it, you call into the show and you're just.

[960] clenched fists.

[961] And, you know, some people can be very, very generous, but I've, I've a hard time finding people who went broke being generous.

[962] So that's a great one to flex.

[963] And the spending side, people call in and say, Dave, I've been following you for 30 years.

[964] I can't stomach spending money.

[965] And Dave's like, go force yourself to do something fun.

[966] And so if you look at it throws through those three buckets, it becomes easier.

[967] You can save spend.

[968] I mean, the first time you spend X, Y, Z that you've never spent.

[969] Makes you want to throw up.

[970] On something, you go, what in the world am i have i lost my mind even if you're a spender you stop in question you know am i out of control here i bought a car that costs that oh my gosh i used to buy houses for that you know i mean it's like golly and so yeah you it is emotional and um but you know the good news is once and the first time i gave away 10 000 i thought man i'm rich i mean only rich people give away $10 ,000.

[971] I thought this is a big deal.

[972] And now $10 ,000.

[973] And then you kept upping it every year.

[974] The other year you gave away a million dollars in a day and that was a big goal for you.

[975] Yeah, to get there.

[976] And so, but it wasn't, I mean, I couldn't even, I thought I was so cool in one sense.

[977] I gave away $10 ,000, you know, and then I was like, wow, you know.

[978] But then you get satiated to it and will keep you from going out of control is to have some boundaries in those Those ratios are good boundaries.

[979] It's kind of the opposite of lifestyle creep when you're not living on less than you make.

[980] This is someone following the plan going, how do I increase the right way?

[981] Mike's in Washington, D .C. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[982] Hey, Dave.

[983] How are you?

[984] Better than I deserve.

[985] What's up, man?

[986] Not too much.

[987] I have a question.

[988] So my employer offers a 401K, and I just finished out my first year of work, maxed out my contributions to it.

[989] found out we have the ability to make Roth contributions.

[990] Great.

[991] So I switched from 12 % pre -tax to 12 % Roth.

[992] Awesome.

[993] And so now that I'm contributing, making Roth contributions, I lose that deduction that I was getting for making pre -tax contributions.

[994] Correct.

[995] And other than an IRA, a traditional IRA, I'm curious what other avenues there are to kind of make up for losing that deduct.

[996] Okay.

[997] Let's reframe that because you traded a pre -tax tax deduction making the entire account taxable when you get ready to take it out.

[998] So if you have a million dollars in your 401k at retirement, 100 % of it's taxed, if it's a pre -tax 401k, you traded that for tax -free.

[999] You didn't lose the tax deduction.

[1000] You traded a small tax deduction for a huge.

[1001] tax -free gain.

[1002] So that's a good trade.

[1003] I'll make that trade every day.

[1004] I hate taxes, but not bad enough to just, you know, do something stupid like avoid a Roth.

[1005] No, you did the right thing with the Roth.

[1006] There are no big deductions out there.

[1007] This idea that the rich people have all the deductions is a bunch of crap.

[1008] Unless you run a business or you've got something you can depreciate, you don't have big deductions out there.

[1009] And don't go do a traditional just to get a tax deduction.

[1010] George Camel Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[1011] Heidi is in Bowling Green, Ohio.

[1012] Hi, Heidi.

[1013] How are you?

[1014] Hi, Dave.

[1015] I'm doing well.

[1016] How are you?

[1017] Better than I deserve.

[1018] Bowling Green, Ohio, hometown of Scott Hamilton.

[1019] It is.

[1020] It is.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] And the natural tractor polls.

[1023] And, yeah.

[1024] And I believe Dave, there was an old runner back in the Dave Waddell.

[1025] You probably don't know that name.

[1026] But, yeah, that was a long time ago.

[1027] Anyway, how can I help?

[1028] Okay.

[1029] Okay.

[1030] So my question is, first I want to say thank you so much for taking my call.

[1031] And you are an answer to a bold prayer that I just said yesterday.

[1032] And I'm so grateful to get through.

[1033] But my question is we, my husband and I, who's been blessed with four kids that we've raised, we have our baby is a senior in high school.

[1034] And now my husband and I are trying to buckle down and figure out how to, ride this next season and to the best we can financially to, you know, hit retirement in a good note.

[1035] We have our home that we live in, and we also have a five -acre piece of property that has four rentals on it, four rental homes.

[1036] It also has a large barn, but we've had a hard time renting the barn out for anything.

[1037] But we have, through this process of, um, I went raising the kids and selling a business that we had for years.

[1038] My husband went back to school, and they called him Grandpa Daddy, but he graduated first in his class.

[1039] So he was a good Grandpa Daddy student.

[1040] But we took out two HELOC.

[1041] We have a HELOC on our home and a HELOC on the rental.

[1042] For what?

[1043] For what?

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] What did you buy with that money?

[1046] we just covered expenses while he was in school because he wasn't working no oh he he he worked a little bit and you weren't working y 'all y 'all didn't have any money to eat and so you borrowed money to eat well i was working but my income was not going to um was not going to fill the gap of his not working so how long did he not work and how much money did you guys rack up well he did not work for about a year um and in that time we had um we went from i guess over a course of a few years we went from a really large income how much do you owe on these two he locks that's what i'm asking on the he lock on the first one we owe 295 what about on other one.

[1047] And the other one is 39 .5.

[1048] Okay.

[1049] So you borrowed $70 ,000 on the year that he didn't work.

[1050] And what is his degree in?

[1051] He is now a substation electrician.

[1052] Okay.

[1053] And what is his income now?

[1054] Well, he's still climbing each year because he's been at his job for three years now.

[1055] But currently, he works he is working a lot of overtime but he makes about um 110 okay what do you make and i'm i'm currently home okay so you have a 110 000 income you have 70 000 in helox from this mess any other debt well well we have 140 income because we get rental income from the five acres so another 30 in rental income you have any other debt other than any sea locks?

[1056] We have, no, we drive crappy cars.

[1057] And you're how old?

[1058] We, 52.

[1059] Okay, so how quick are you going to clean up $70 ,000 making $140?

[1060] I would love to do it in two years.

[1061] I think you should.

[1062] But I would also, my other proposal thought is, do we sell the five acres with the rentals?

[1063] Because over the next 10 years, from what, like, I'm calculating, if it makes a profit of $216 ,000, I don't know if, I don't know if it's worth hanging on to or just trying to sell it or in paying off everything.

[1064] I think it would bring at least, my husband thinks $450.

[1065] Okay.

[1066] You've got a half a million dollars sitting in the middle of your coffee table, and you don't own this farm.

[1067] Would you go buy it?

[1068] No. Then sell it.

[1069] Okay.

[1070] If you wouldn't buy it again, you shouldn't keep it.

[1071] But do you think it's possible to get out from under the helix?

[1072] Because then that would be paid for a total.

[1073] It's possible if you make $140 ,000, surely to God, you can pay off 70 in two years.

[1074] It's only $35 ,000 a year out of $140 ,000.

[1075] You've got to struggle through on $105 minus taxes.

[1076] right i think you can do that for sure and or you can sell the other property i don't think you're required to sell the other property but it doesn't sound to me like you guys are you're not enjoying it's a headache yeah it's like you know if you didn't own it would you go buy it no was an instant answer you didn't even think about it so obviously it's not i mean if you if you wouldn't buy it again folks that means you need to sell it whatever it is other than your spouse i mean and you said you only got one more kid of the house said the baby is a senior in high school so it might be time you go back to work and help speed this process up so you can retire of dignity because you said that was your goal yeah but if you sold that and you cleared the helix and then you just start pile it stacking cash towards retirement you're going to be just fine you're going to be okay it's just a matter which way is the rest the way you want to go at it 20 years from today do you want to own that farm and if you asked me that about several of the properties that we own the answer is yes i very seldom sell a piece of real estate but occasionally i look at it and i go god if i didn't i wouldn't buy that i don't own it that means you got to get rid of it that means it's time to move to something else and i've got a couple of those i've moved a couple of pieces of real estate over the years but 90 % of the stuff we buy we keep forever that's our goal so but you know it's okay to move it there's nothing wrong with it good question thank you for joining us.

[1077] Canada's on the line.

[1078] Dale is calling.

[1079] Hi, Dale.

[1080] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1081] How can we help?

[1082] Hey, guys.

[1083] I'm just wondering, I hear you guys talk all the time about if you own vehicles with large payments on them to sell them and downgrade to smaller vehicles.

[1084] But I guess my question is, if I've got vehicles with negative equity, how do I do that?

[1085] You have to cover the negative equity with a new loan or savings.

[1086] Okay.

[1087] How much negative equity do you have, Dale?

[1088] We have two vehicles and a travel trailer that we don't use anymore.

[1089] So we're deciding that we're not using it, we might as well get rid of it.

[1090] Yeah, so the trailer, let's just take the trailer.

[1091] What is it worth?

[1092] It's worth about 30.

[1093] And what do you owe on it?

[1094] 47.

[1095] Okay.

[1096] So would you rather have 47 in debt or 17 in?

[1097] debt.

[1098] I'd rather have 17, but I just wasn't sure if that's the best way to do or if there's some other options.

[1099] There's not another option.

[1100] You've got to cover the negative in order to give a clear title to the buyer.

[1101] And so that's the problem with being stuck upside down in these things.

[1102] So you could go to your local credit union and see if they'll give you where the place that holds the loan and say, listen, I'm underwater on this thing.

[1103] You've got bad collateral here because this thing's only worth 30.

[1104] A .O. 47.

[1105] I'm looking for a 17 ,000 loan to cover the difference and get rid of this thing.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] Let me sign you.

[1108] a note for the difference and if it's a local credit union they might do that for you yeah you know if it's um Trevor trailer finance incorporated they're not going to you know because they don't you're not run in trouble you're going to have to go to the local credit union borrow the 17 to get out but I'd rather you'd be 17 ,000 in death than 47 that'll speed this up especially on a trailer that's sitting in the yard that you don't use and wish you hadn't bought so there you go or you come up with the difference if you got it in savings or you can come up with it quickly By the way, travel trailers are not evil, but if you're out there sitting there thinking today that you're going to go buy a $50 ,000 one, you need to know that it's going to be worth 30 in about 45 minutes.

[1109] And so don't finance it for sure, you know, be ready to take the hit.

[1110] That's how this world works.

[1111] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1112] The headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1113] It's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love.

[1114] and create actual amazing relationships.

[1115] The phone number here is AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -2 -5.

[1116] George Camel, Ramsey Personality, host of the George Camel with a K, YouTube channel that has absolutely exploded in listenership and subscribers.

[1117] Thank you.

[1118] Viewership, I guess you say on YouTube, but thanks for doing that.

[1119] The team, just let me know, Dave.

[1120] We just hit, I think, a record over a million unique viewers in the last 28 days on the U .S. YouTube channel.

[1121] So thank you to everyone who's been tuning in.

[1122] That's the fastest we've ever gotten to a million on anything on the Ramsey Networks.

[1123] Wow.

[1124] Fastest.

[1125] So thank you.

[1126] We've had some get bigger, obviously, this show and so forth.

[1127] But sure.

[1128] But the fastest to a million is you.

[1129] Way to go.

[1130] Wow.

[1131] I'll take it.

[1132] Nice sprint.

[1133] Well, the team does an amazing job, and we make those videos entertaining while informing the people about personal finance.

[1134] So I appreciate it.

[1135] If you like this show, you'll like that one.

[1136] Jessica's in New York City.

[1137] Jessica, how are you?

[1138] Hi, I'm good.

[1139] How are you?

[1140] Better than we deserve.

[1141] What's up?

[1142] So my question is, so in late 2022, my boyfriend and I invested $100 ,000 in my family's fast food franchise business.

[1143] And then so in 2023, we've since made $11 ,000 back, and that's currently in a high -yield savings account.

[1144] My question is, should we keep it in that savings account until we've accrued the initial investment back, or should we reinvest the $11 ,000 that we've made?

[1145] Okay.

[1146] How much did you put in?

[1147] I put in 30.

[1148] My boyfriend put in 70.

[1149] Okay.

[1150] And you made an 11 % rate of return.

[1151] Mm -hmm.

[1152] Wow.

[1153] So the franchise is not doing that well, huh?

[1154] Well, yeah.

[1155] I don't know.

[1156] You ought to be making a lot more than that.

[1157] You ought to be making more than 11 % on a small business operation.

[1158] Okay.

[1159] Okay.

[1160] So the 11 ,000 is really not a joint amount.

[1161] A portion of that is yours and a portion that's his, correct?

[1162] Yeah, but for the purpose of this question, we can view it as a joint amount.

[1163] I just want to know, like, if it was only the $11 ,000.

[1164] Yeah.

[1165] What should be?

[1166] It has nothing to do with recouping your investment.

[1167] I just wouldn't put any more in this.

[1168] So I would take that money and just do something else with it.

[1169] And I would not view it as a joint account.

[1170] I would view it as separate because you're not married.

[1171] And so it's not legally a joint account.

[1172] You do not have an LLC managing this.

[1173] You don't have a joint, you don't have any kind of joint venture agreement.

[1174] This is two individuals that dump money into an account.

[1175] So it is separate legally.

[1176] You don't have a choice in that matter.

[1177] And so you ought to separate it.

[1178] And his portion should be the return on his money and your portion should be the return on your money.

[1179] and then you guys go and do with that in your personal finances, each of you, not joint, what you should be doing.

[1180] But no, I wouldn't put it back in there.

[1181] You've already put enough in there.

[1182] Put a lot in there.

[1183] Now, if she's talking about investing the money instead of having it sit in a savings account, if we're talking five plus years, you know, if she wanted to take that money and put it into mutual funds or an index fund, is that something that could be lost?

[1184] Yeah, but I'm guessing they probably have some other financial goals.

[1185] getting out of debt or saving money for it's a house, that kind of thing, that that money should be moving in those directions, even rather than as an investment.

[1186] But should I, would I roll it back into the franchise?

[1187] No, I sure would not.

[1188] A small business ought to be returning double that.

[1189] So, no, I would not.

[1190] Thanks for the call.

[1191] Open phones at AAA -8255 -225, Jasmans in Cleveland, Ohio.

[1192] Hi, Jasmine, how are you?

[1193] Good, how about you guys?

[1194] Better than I deserve.

[1195] What's up?

[1196] So my father passed away unexpectedly in December.

[1197] I'm sorry.

[1198] How old was he?

[1199] Thank you.

[1200] 56.

[1201] Oh, wow.

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] I'm sorry.

[1204] So we're feeling debt loss right now.

[1205] He had one life insurance policy.

[1206] I was awarded 25 % of it.

[1207] And also my five -year -old daughter was awarded 25%.

[1208] both of our portions value at just a little bit over $18 ,000 each.

[1209] My portion, we plan to, me and my Fiancai, we plan to pay off debt.

[1210] With her portion, though, obviously it's with her.

[1211] I wanted to stay with her, but she's five years old, and I wanted to know, get some advice on what are the best options to possibly invest it or yeah I would put it in some mutual funds in a college fund in a 529 go to ramsysolutions .com and click on smartvestor and find some of the smart vestor pros in your area that we endorse and we tell folks to go see because they have the heart of a teacher and I would get her 18 ,000 sitting in a 529 and and then I'll step over into the other part of your statement much like the last caller, you and your fiancé aren't doing anything until you're married.

[1212] You are doing things with your money on your bills.

[1213] Don't you dare pay his bills with this?

[1214] Well, we do have plans to be married.

[1215] When?

[1216] We planned it in the next month, actually.

[1217] Okay.

[1218] After you're married, you have shared accounts and shared assets.

[1219] but until that ring is on your finger and this is official do not use any of your money to pay his bills please please for your sake okay now once you're married then it's all it's all in the money's in the middle his yours you know my debt your debt my money your money all that and uh but but until you're married because if something happened until you're married you know you have zero protection on this so it's just dangerous as crud to start to start handling your financial transactions as if you're married when you're not in both of these cases and we take those calls when it was supposed to go perfectly according to on paper and then life happened and it didn't work out and then someone's going well I paid off your debt and now we're not getting married what what do we do now well I mean all kinds of things happen that we don't know we're going to happen and you know sometimes it's ugly things and sometimes it's sad things and other things.

[1220] So please, please, please, folks, do not have joint accounts for your $11 ,000 when you're not married.

[1221] Do not take your dad's 18 ,000 from your dad's passing away from his life insurance that he left his daughter and pay bills for a guy you're not married to yet.

[1222] After you're married, it's not a guy you're married to.

[1223] He's now called your husband.

[1224] Now we are one.

[1225] And now, yes, we can pay any bills with it.

[1226] whatever we decide we're going to do.

[1227] But guys, you cannot treat these things the same because you're going to get yourself in a pinch.

[1228] And I just, we love you too much to see that happen to you.

[1229] And we run into ugly situations where people misbehave.

[1230] We run into sad situations where people die.

[1231] We run into all kinds of things.

[1232] And we've seen it all.

[1233] And, you know, as long as you, you know, things don't always turn out exactly like.

[1234] your little plan so until you're married don't be combining assets do not buy a house with someone you're not married to dumber than crud don't do that i was just talking to you right then you out there you know what i'm talking to this is the ramsie show george camel ramsay personality is my co -host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five we're glad you're here ruth is with us.

[1235] Ruthie is with us, rather, in Orange County.

[1236] Hi, Ruthie.

[1237] How are you?

[1238] I'm doing great.

[1239] Thank you for taking my call.

[1240] Sure.

[1241] What's up?

[1242] So, you know, I currently live in California, which is, I grew up here, but it's high cost living and where, aside from the house, consumer debt's about 150K that we have.

[1243] And I was thinking about relocating to Tennessee.

[1244] As a lot of Californians have, and maybe just either use the profit from our home here.

[1245] It did increase in value in a short amount of time and maybe just get a house cash and then help speed up the process of getting us out of debt.

[1246] I don't know.

[1247] That's a good idea.

[1248] What's your home in Orange County worth?

[1249] It's about $1 ,135.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] What do you owe on it?

[1252] About seven, a little over 700 ,000, I think.

[1253] So you got $500 ,000 in equity and you have $140 ,000 in debt.

[1254] So that leaves you $350 ,000 to buy a house with when you make your move, right?

[1255] Yes.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] All right.

[1258] Well, a million two in Orange County is probably $350 in some other areas.

[1259] Not New York City, but it could be in Tennessee for sure.

[1260] It could be a similar property, actually, depending on where in Tennessee you landed, or Texas or Florida or whatever, but wherever you decide to go.

[1261] So financially, obviously, that changes things.

[1262] What does your husband do for a living?

[1263] What do you do for a living?

[1264] I am a registered nurse.

[1265] I work from home.

[1266] I bring in about 139 a year.

[1267] He used to be in sales, but, you know, he's in his early 50s and kind of aged out of it, really.

[1268] He's working with special needs kids, really, at one of the local high schools now.

[1269] He just got the job.

[1270] He's bringing about 40K, really, a year.

[1271] Well, that's not that hard to replace, then.

[1272] And you can do your job from anywhere, right?

[1273] Yes, from anywhere as long as soon as they do us.

[1274] Okay.

[1275] So I keep my same salary, really.

[1276] Okay.

[1277] So you can, you know, you can handle the career change.

[1278] You can handle the real estate change.

[1279] You'd be dead free to make the move.

[1280] Then the only, the bigger question than all of that is, you know, just because it makes financial sense, doesn't mean that your family is going to want to do this and that you're going to be happy and that you need to do this.

[1281] I mean, you know, you know, I've got a good, I've got a, I was with a, friend of mine last night that just moved to Nashville from California and his wife grew up in Orange County and you know they're settling into Nashville it's a different culture sure um yeah you know that's part of the hesitancy either i mean the other plan was thinking about maybe just chugging it through and you know I'm on baby step too really just trying to get out of debt I mean, so the answer to your question is financially, mathematically, everything you're saying makes sense.

[1282] But that doesn't mean you should do it.

[1283] The reason you should do it is is it makes you happy.

[1284] It causes you to be excited and you get out of debt and pay cash for a house.

[1285] Not I get out of debt, pay cash for a house, and I'm miserable.

[1286] True.

[1287] So you guys got to.

[1288] Would you still want to move if you didn't have any debt?

[1289] Would you still want to move to Tennessee?

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] The answer is yes, this could be a great move.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] You know, if you wanted to move to a different state of income, I started a new adventure.

[1294] But it sounds like my friend's wife who grew up there.

[1295] Her, the axis of the world for her runs through Orange County.

[1296] I mean, the axis for me runs through the middle of Nashville.

[1297] That's where I grew up.

[1298] And so, you know, where I'd have moved to Orange County, it'd be different.

[1299] It'd be like being on a different planet, you know.

[1300] And so.

[1301] I'd pay to see that, Dave.

[1302] Yeah, it'd be different.

[1303] Be weird.

[1304] But yeah, but I'm saying, you know.

[1305] You could pay off 150, making $100.

[1306] 180.

[1307] That's not impossible.

[1308] You can do that in two years.

[1309] Three years, you know, it's definitely doable if you're willing to make the sacrifices.

[1310] The question is, where do you want to be 10 years from today?

[1311] Living physically, geographically, where do you want to be living?

[1312] And then that needs to make your overall decision.

[1313] In my friend's case, they left California because of the political situation, the ridiculous actions around the Fauci pandemic, and the crazy butt taxes.

[1314] They paid cash for their house here in one year of income tax savings, not living in California.

[1315] Wow.

[1316] Well, we got no state income tax here in Tennessee, which is another blessing.

[1317] And so that, you know, for them, it was like, you know, the state of California ran us off is the way they feel about it.

[1318] Well, we saw the migration numbers, too.

[1319] It's the second largest state.

[1320] for losing people.

[1321] New York lost the most.

[1322] California lost the next most.

[1323] And most of them went to Tennessee, Texas, and Florida is where the three most, I don't know, incoming with the shift in migration.

[1324] We've had a huge migration.

[1325] But the migration is completely in all of these cases caused by the politics and the taxes associated with the politics.

[1326] And so, you know, that's, you cannot tax rich people when they can move away they will leave they don't have to stay and so this idea we're going to tax all these rich people and then they all just load up the truck and head away from beverly hills that is swimming pools and movie stars so there you go i mean they they leave buddy i mean that's what happens and so you see these migrations and uh so what you've got is a perfect storm between uh several of the political issues along with the uh pandemic issues which are really political issues are what they came down to and then you mix in the tax issues which really is a political issue when it gets right down to it but these four you know one or two of them people can stomach but when you start putting three four five of these things on there then people move out of michigan they move out of uh which is the third one uh they move out of california and they out of New York.

[1327] It's, I mean, this is not an opinion.

[1328] It's a statistical fact.

[1329] U -Haul is making a killing.

[1330] I mean, it's like, they, you know, they think Governor Newsom is just an incredible marketing.

[1331] Thanks for the business.

[1332] Oh, man. So that's what's going on.

[1333] So Ruthie, but I'm not, it's not, I'm not saying you're dumb if you stay, because honestly, I hear sadness in your voice when you're talking about it.

[1334] It sounds like you're sad.

[1335] And you don't want to move somewhere just, sad even though the math works I wouldn't do that if you're if you can look at it as an adventure a new chapter in our life and we're excited about this and it'll be fun and be different and whatever then yeah that's fine but but but only the the math works on what you're talking about but just because the math works that's not the only reason to do it it's one solution doesn't mean it's the solution exactly exactly Samuels weather's in Columbus Georgia hi Samuel welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[1336] Hi, Dave.

[1337] Good afternoon.

[1338] Thank you for taking my call.

[1339] I'm a long -time listener.

[1340] So I'm calling to get some help and advice on how to best assist my mother and her husband who are both struggling financially and medically.

[1341] How old are they?

[1342] Both about in their early 60s.

[1343] Okay.

[1344] What's the medical situations?

[1345] so her husband has had two strokes he had a second stroke at the beginning of last year around this time um so he's very very incapacitated he has some other residual medical problems my mom she has high blood pressure um and um she's also unfortunately obese mobile obese and that both are, but they're both partially.

[1346] So, I mean, if you sit down and coach them on their money, will they take your advice?

[1347] Well, I'm not sure, sir.

[1348] Okay.

[1349] Then you might be wasting your time.

[1350] I mean, you can't make grown -up people do stuff.

[1351] There's not a law that allows that.

[1352] So, you know.

[1353] You can cover a medical bill, but we need to find a sustainable solution.

[1354] Yeah, I would sit down with them and figure out where we're going and what are we going to do to get there.

[1355] And then you can realize what participation you need to do.

[1356] But if you start throwing money at this and they're digging a hole faster than you're filling it in, that's not going to work for anybody.

[1357] So you've got to get a holistic approach to this and that'll help you get there.

[1358] George Camel Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1359] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -4.

[1360] All right, let's catch up a little bit.

[1361] There is a company called Standard and Poor.

[1362] They are one of the companies that rates things on the stock market.

[1363] The most famous thing that they rate, there's a company called Dow Jones that has an average of the industrial companies, which creates the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which is a little strange because a lot of the companies are not industrial anymore that are part of that average.

[1364] Old -timey term.

[1365] But it comes from when America was more manufacturing -driven than it is today.

[1366] The S &P, standard and poor, rates the top, the largest, 500 companies that are publicly traded, meaning their stock is sold on what we call the Big Board, the New York Stock Exchange.

[1367] So these are the largest 500 companies that sell stock.

[1368] in America and that means they have that they as this group of companies goes is a good indication of what the economy is doing it's a good indication certainly of what the stock market is doing because basically they make up the stock the vast majority of the stock market so the top 500 companies on the new york stock exchange is called the s and p standard poor s and p 500 now that's important because that's actually a better way of measure what the stock market is doing, then the Dow is, okay, or the Dow Jones Industrial average or any other measure for that matter.

[1369] This is a very generic measure, and people in the financial world use the S &P 500 as a as a plumb line to tell what the market is doing.

[1370] So if a mutual fund, for instance, outperforms the S &P 500, that means the mutual fund is making better returns than the market as a whole.

[1371] If it underperforms the S &P 500, it makes less returns.

[1372] So all that's important.

[1373] Nice article, James, our producer, pulled up for us.

[1374] If the S &P 500 hits a new all -time high in 24, you can expect a strong year of gains to follow, according to Nid Davis research.

[1375] The investment firm crunched the numbers and found that when the S &P 500 hits at least one record high in a given year, that year's median return is about 15%.

[1376] So what they're saying is is that when the stock market tops out and has a new record that is almost always a year that you get great returns.

[1377] Well, duh.

[1378] Obviously, if the stock market's hitting a new record, you ought to be getting great returns.

[1379] It kind of makes sense, right?

[1380] Good foreshadowing, guys.

[1381] But, I mean, it makes sense.

[1382] It's an interesting, it is a valid statistical correlation.

[1383] So I like the study.

[1384] The S &P 500 has tended to post double -digit gains in years with record high.

[1385] Ned Davis research said.

[1386] The data point highlights two typical characteristics of the stock market that strength begets more strength and the stocks don't typically crash from all -time highs.

[1387] So just because it goes way up generally means it's going to go up.

[1388] It doesn't mean it's going to go right back down.

[1389] And that makes sense, of course, too.

[1390] Of course, this stass is not a slam dunk.

[1391] The S &P is less than 2 % away from hitting a new all -time high.

[1392] If it were to do that in the next day or two or the next month or two, then a, you know, the historical data indicates that you're going to have a great year, which also makes sense because it wouldn't have hit a hive.

[1393] It wasn't, or hadn't moved towards a great year.

[1394] But it doesn't just jump up there and then jump down.

[1395] So all this to say, we're close to hitting a new record ever in the history of the stock market up.

[1396] And if it hits that, that is a great indicator that 24 is going to be a great year to have.

[1397] have invested, which means that if you're waiting until after the presidential election in November to do your investing, that's probably a dumb idea.

[1398] If you got some money you're sitting on right now, I would buy your mutual fund like tomorrow, right now.

[1399] And if you're thinking about pulling all your money out because you saw some headlines, don't do that either.

[1400] We found that if you just ride this roller coaster over time, you're going to hit a new record high and a new record high.

[1401] And then it's going to go down.

[1402] And then it's going to come up.

[1403] And then it's going to go down and then it's going to come up.

[1404] This is how life works.

[1405] I mean, it's how the real estate.

[1406] It's how the real estate market works.

[1407] It's how mutual funds work.

[1408] It's how the whole, you know, stock market works, the S &P 500, all this does that.

[1409] So here's the deal.

[1410] You got $100 ,000 and you wait until November and this market hits and does what this study indicates.

[1411] And it makes, let's say it makes 15%, which was the average, the median.

[1412] Okay.

[1413] It's $100 ,000 and you don't invest it.

[1414] You wait until November.

[1415] and the market goes up 15 % what'd you lose $15 ,000 because you didn't do what I just said to do invest so you stock and let me tell you real estate's exactly the same place right now is real state going to go down no it's not we have a tremendous shortage of housing there's more buyers even in a sluggish slow market where people are sitting on the sidelines because interest rates spiked up now they're coming back down they're coming off sidelines in the last two weeks like never before but um if you wait a year to buy a house because you're somehow waiting to time the market you've got this mysterious insight that you think things are going to go down you're wrong and if you wait a year to invest in the market because you're waiting on the market to come down you're going to miss it and if i'm wrong give it another 12 months and i won't be wrong Because it'll come up.

[1416] I mean, really.

[1417] So I got to tell you, what is Dave Ramsey doing right now?

[1418] Buying.

[1419] Period.

[1420] Investing.

[1421] Period.

[1422] I'm not waiting on the clash of the old men, Trump and Biden.

[1423] I'm not waiting on two 80 years, 80 year olds to have an MMA to decide what I'm going to do.

[1424] Because who the crap knows?

[1425] One of them may break a hip.

[1426] Well, it's more like bumper cars.

[1427] of running out of battery, bumping into each other more than a clash.

[1428] It's like two Muppets.

[1429] The dirt was the old men Muppets, right?

[1430] Statler and Waldorf, is that them?

[1431] That's him.

[1432] Oh, my gosh.

[1433] So don't wait on this.

[1434] Don't sit, don't watch Fox News and CNN and let your butt sit on the bench.

[1435] Get in the game.

[1436] Shoot the ball.

[1437] Fire.

[1438] Pull the trigger.

[1439] Whatever, whatever metaphor we need to use to cause you to actually do the investing.

[1440] sports, weaponry, whatever it takes.

[1441] And whatever it takes to get you moving here.

[1442] We'll go whatever, whichever direction you need to go.

[1443] And this validates a lot of what you've been saying for 30 years, Dave.

[1444] We looked at historical data and the S &P 500, average annual return is 10 to 12%.

[1445] And they're saying right here, this is going to, could be a year about 15 % median return.

[1446] And people always go, well, Dave, I'm not getting that in my account.

[1447] Well, yeah, dummy, not in a given one month period.

[1448] Well, you see that, but over time, the average is 12%.

[1449] That's the average.

[1450] That's how average is worth.

[1451] I think we all need to go back to basic math.

[1452] Statistical.

[1453] These sixth grade math classes that people flunked.

[1454] But, yeah, that's the thing.

[1455] So all of this to say, boys and girls, please be steadily investing.

[1456] Please, the people that invest are the ones that have money.

[1457] There's a high correlation between people who save money, invest money that have money.

[1458] Hello.

[1459] Why was that deep?

[1460] you know if you don't if you don't put any money in the account please don't expect any money to be in the account why is that hard well but just keep doing it just keep doing it just keep doing it just keep a lot of fear and it's why i love you know working with a financial pro uh smart vester pro great great person to work with to reach out to a financial advisor and investment pro and go help me understand this and you make the decisions and they're not going to pull the money out for you you you are calling the shots here and they're going to help you understand the perspective that we're showing you on the show today.

[1461] Yeah, you can pull up the historical data and look at the track records, look at the trend lines.

[1462] It's really not hard to understand.

[1463] I mean, it's really not.

[1464] I mean, if you pull up in a neighborhood and there's cars up on blocks and the gutters are falling off the houses and the place everything you see needs weed eaters, then, you know, and then you pull up the MLS data on that neighborhood and you see the values have been going down, it's not a, it doesn't require rocket surgery to figure out that this thing's going down in value.

[1465] I mean, you know, this is not hard.

[1466] And if you pull up in the neighborhood and everything's manicured and it looks like freaking leave it to beaver lives there, you know, and you go pull up MLS data on that, you're going to see a line up and to the right.

[1467] Hello.

[1468] Well, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out either.

[1469] Go buy a house in that neighborhood.

[1470] This is, these are trend lines.

[1471] It's historical data.

[1472] You can watch this stuff.

[1473] This is the Ramsey show.

[1474] Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 13, 3.

[1475] Those who guard their lips preserve their lives, but those who speak rashly will come to ruin.

[1476] Robert Frost said, half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can't, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep saying it.

[1477] Well, since we're on the air with a live mic, we pretty much have to fill up the time, so guilty is charged.

[1478] Dave's going to keep saying it.

[1479] Guilty is charged all the time.

[1480] Robert, is in California.

[1481] Hey, Robert.

[1482] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1483] Hey, Mr. Ramsey.

[1484] I just wanted to say I'm a huge fan.

[1485] My economic feature for my senior year in high school introduced me to you through the Ramsey Solutions Investment Calculator.

[1486] Wow.

[1487] Just to let you know, the main problem at hand is my father is pretty much not allowing me to get a part -time job while I'm a full -time college student.

[1488] That's like the main issue at hand.

[1489] The background on it, though, is my father came to this country as a refugee during a civil war in his home country, and he has a bunch of brothers and sisters, and they ran into a cycle because they never really had any guidance through financial, where the second that they would get a job, which was minimum wage or, you know, close to minimum wage, they would spend all of their money.

[1490] They wouldn't save.

[1491] They wouldn't try to invest.

[1492] They wouldn't do anything with their money.

[1493] they would just spend it all.

[1494] And, you know, even now we're still to see, I have a bunch of uncles and aunts.

[1495] I don't have a single uncle or aunt that is financially well off.

[1496] The only person in my family that is financially well off is my father, and that is because of my mother.

[1497] And because of your mother's discipline or she brought money to the table?

[1498] My mother's discipline.

[1499] My mother showed up, it was to the point where there's a story.

[1500] What country did he come from?

[1501] El Salvador.

[1502] Say again?

[1503] El Salvador.

[1504] El Salvador, okay, gotcha, okay.

[1505] All right, and I had to put the Tennessee accent on there to understand.

[1506] Okay, and El Salvador, no, I'm kidding.

[1507] But anyway, the, the, all right, so what's your dad do for a living?

[1508] He is a CHP officer.

[1509] Okay, and you are, and he is paying for your college?

[1510] My mother is paying for my college Well, your parents are paying for your college And you live at home Yes, I live at home Okay All right Well, um You come like I do From a culture of honor So honoring your father is very important Would you agree with that?

[1511] Absolutely Okay That's a good thing And so Number one you're not going to work unless he's going along with it.

[1512] And that's honoring him and that's honoring your mom writing the checks for you to go to school.

[1513] You're going to go along with their plan.

[1514] Now, then the next thing is, is there any way you get a hearing with him?

[1515] And, you know, what I might do is say, Dad, I have admired your work ethic and mom's work ethic and discipline and I think I can do some work and not be irresponsible with it.

[1516] And would you, would you coach me, mentor me, and let me try it for one semester with you watching my behaviors and see if I get out of line?

[1517] And let's run an experiment, Dad.

[1518] And the only way I would do that, though, is if I can do it and honor you, Dad.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] Okay.

[1521] And so I want to honor your request, but I'm asking for you to help me try this as an experiment.

[1522] If the experiment goes the way you think it's going to, I won't ask again, and I'll go through school without working.

[1523] If the experiment goes well, and I'm able to do this without any kind of debt, and I'm able to do it without becoming irresponsible due to working, which is his fear, if I understood you right, then.

[1524] then maybe the experiment turned out positive, and maybe we can extend that.

[1525] Why don't we try this, but I need your help to make sure this is being done the way you want it done, Dad.

[1526] That's different than you rebelling and saying, you know, in a sense, using the attitude, the old man has no clue, so you're going to do whatever you want to do.

[1527] I would never endorse you doing that.

[1528] No, absolutely.

[1529] And it wouldn't work.

[1530] Yeah, and it wouldn't work.

[1531] Robert, what was your goal in working part -time?

[1532] What would you do with that money?

[1533] Well, to give you some background, I followed up with Mr. Ramsey since I was 17.

[1534] I remember coming home to my mom because my mom has a better credit score than my dad does and begging her to let me piggyback off her credit card as a 17 -year -old, and because of that, now I have a 750 credit score with my own credit card.

[1535] Well, you didn't get that from us.

[1536] oh no i we didn't tell you you i decided to take a because of you i decided to take a bunch of financial classes in my high school oh okay okay yeah and so what are you going to do with this money invest it i just want to i you know it's it's to the point where in order to get any type of income i've been having to do side hustles behind my dad's back i do computer repairs for my friends uh i do digital repairs as in you know i do i t work uh across the internet on twitter um Even one of my friends has contacted me to open up an e -commerce business with him.

[1537] I have been trying to get any sort of income under the table.

[1538] I already have my emergency fund set up two of $1 ,000.

[1539] And then in flat cash, I have around $300, and I've been investing like a dollar a day just for the past year into the Vanguard S &P 500, just a dollar a day.

[1540] So, Dad, you risked your life for our family to have an opportunity to start in the land of the free.

[1541] and part of the free is free enterprise and part of the free is the ability to go into the marketplace and earn and I want you to walk beside me and show me how you think I ought to do that in a way that's responsible that's a lot better than under the table hiding and deceiving your father you don't want to do that that's not going to turn out well for you so good question sir good question honored to have you in our listening audience we appreciate you being there jana is with us in athens georgia jana right quick for a run out of time what's up hey real quick um i'm curious on how you started on with my budget when i have so much looming debt over us i'm really been laser focused on trying to get our financial situation fixed since before the holidays and when i try to look at the budget and i'm taking about the four walls it's hard for me to navigate where to even begin.

[1542] So can you cover the four walls right now, food, utility, shelter, transportation?

[1543] How much money do you have left after covering those?

[1544] Barely anything.

[1545] What's your income?

[1546] So my income between my husband and I is $82 ,000 a year.

[1547] And how much debt?

[1548] So we actually not counting our house for like $115 ,000 in debt, and that's all been accrued since we bought the house.

[1549] It's all house debt.

[1550] Yeah, you're not spending $82 ,000 on food, shelter, clothing, transportation.

[1551] You're saying after your debt payments.

[1552] You know, okay, well, there's personal loans.

[1553] Yeah, that's not, your personal loans are not four walls.

[1554] Your four walls are your basic necessities, so.

[1555] There's only one way out of this.

[1556] You've got to make more money, sell all the crap you bought, and decrease your expenses, and use all the extra margin at the debt.

[1557] Smalls to largest balance.

[1558] How much do you owe on your cars?

[1559] Between both of them, $14 .9.

[1560] they're not the problem okay yeah so I don't know what else you bought yeah let's get you into the every dollar budgeting app I will pay for it and the premium version and get you started here and it's a great paycheck planning tool in there that will help and we'll go ahead and put you in financial peace university so you guys can do this but the two of you're going to sit down together and figure out what of our lifestyle we're going to cut what we're going to do to get our income up and our out go down and that's what george is saying and he's exactly right so hold on Austin, I'll pick up.

[1561] We'll get you signed up for every bit of that.

[1562] So the four walls are basic food, and that includes no eating out.

[1563] Electricity and water, utilities, does not include cable.

[1564] Okay, that's not a necessity.

[1565] It includes clothing, although you probably don't need any.

[1566] You've probably got enough to wear if you're up against the wall.

[1567] Shelter, so you've got to pay the house payment of rent and transportation.

[1568] You've got to keep the cars running.

[1569] Gas in the tank.

[1570] So you can get to work.

[1571] And that's it.

[1572] That's your.

[1573] that's your four walls.

[1574] Everything else is not a necessity.

[1575] Everything else is a bad monopoly game.

[1576] That puts us our show in the books.

[1577] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1578] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1579] Christ Jesus.

[1580] If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization, because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do.

[1581] I know from experience.

[1582] I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership podcast.

[1583] I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization.

[1584] One episode could change your business.

[1585] Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey Network app.