#312 - Steve Rinella, Bryan Callen

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan experience.

[2] During my day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] All righty.

[4] It looks like everything is a go, except the image.

[5] Are you seeing the image?

[6] Because all I'm seeing is that, uh, the opening screen.

[7] You see the image?

[8] No, in a second.

[9] Oh, is there like a big ass delay?

[10] There goes.

[11] Do you see it online because I don't see it online All I see is the opening screen But are you seeing it on Ustream?

[12] Because on Ustream I don't see it We'll figure this out, ladies and gentlemen Brian has a new kind of AIDS That he created himself in his own body So don't feel sorry for him Not you, I'm talking about Brian, my employee I don't know what happened to the poor boy He's got strep I guess apparently Did he?

[13] Yeah, he's had it before he gets it Strap so heal up little buddy he's uh he's hurting right now he can't even talk that's that's bad a lot of a lot of flu going around man yeah it's a strong yeah man it's all over the news are any good at flu shot did you i figured you didn't i think i remember you telling me something like that i you know i think you have to keep your immune system strong i think it's very very important but i don't necessarily know that they've got that whole flu shot thing down right you know there's a lot of talk that people actually get the flu because they take a flu shot I've heard people say that because apparently it can make you sick or make you weak.

[14] The CDC, what they're saying is, 64 % effective this year.

[15] 64%.

[16] Oh, really?

[17] I mean, I'm talking out of my ass.

[18] They must take a bunch of mugs, give them the flu shot, and then spit on them, have a guy with the flu spit on them, and 64 % of those guys didn't get the flu.

[19] I'm completely talking out of my ass because I don't really, I mean, I'm sure it does some good, and especially maybe for some people.

[20] Maybe some people could use the boost of a vaccination.

[21] Yeah.

[22] But I think that from what I've heard, there's so many different strains, and it's really hard for them to, like, to predict which strain is hitting people.

[23] I think, I think they give you an amalgam of different ones because of that.

[24] They do.

[25] Tell what they do?

[26] Yeah, but usually there's one strong, very severe flu, whether it's Lyme flu or this year, you're supposed to be particularly severe.

[27] So they'll, I guess they inject you with a dead version, but it's still going to give you a fever and stuff because it's a new agent in your body.

[28] And isn't it fuck that they all?

[29] all come from farms.

[30] It's like almost all of them are like the chicken flu or the scurrying flu.

[31] That's why that's why in guns, germs and steel, Jared Diamond says that agricultural societies breathe way nastier germs because animals, it mutates the cowpox, smallpox, and the minute that indigenous hunter -gatherer tribes, because they were small, always moving, so epidemics couldn't really build into those environments, usually you're kind of healthy being a hunter -tolerant?

[32] Yeah, and that's why, like, here in this continent, like, when they passed through the Arctic, like Siberian stuff, they came down really clean.

[33] That's right, because they leave their, they also leave their feces where they are and they move, whereas farmers live within their shit and other animals shit, yeah.

[34] So that's when they would come in, these big agricultural societies, not only they have systems of governments because they could be more, they could grow more because they could grow their own food and stay in one place, but they breathe nasty germs, man. In fact, by some accounts, the Native Americans, by the time after Cortez came back, or Columbus, one of them, Columbus came, and they were talking about huge populations in the Mississippi Delta and stuff.

[35] You know more about this than I do, Steve, but then when they came back in 15 years, nobody was there.

[36] It was literally, and they think that the...

[37] Yeah, and the towns are still sitting there.

[38] What happened there, everybody?

[39] Epidemic killed off 95 % of Native Americans.

[40] God damn.

[41] But I had my flu shot, though, and I'll tell you why, because we have, like, having that little baby, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[42] Do you know what I mean?

[43] Like, any little thing that I could, any paranoid thing I could say about having a flu shot, like, if you came home and gave.

[44] Yeah, you don't want to do this.

[45] Do you know what I mean?

[46] Like, I'd rather have an increased chance of something weird happening to me than I don't think, I don't think you can give the flu to a little baby.

[47] Well, they have their mother's immune system, and the breast milk is a real, the breast milk is pretty amazing.

[48] So she probably got the flu shot through her mom anyway.

[49] Yeah.

[50] Yeah, it's incredible how quickly, like, brings them back from colds and stuff like that.

[51] There's everything their little body needs in that.

[52] That's right.

[53] It's really insane that your body makes food You know You know Really when you see a woman's body Produce food It's a trip It's like really hard To wrap your head around Yeah I had a buddy That would use it Like for coffee creamer and stuff Okay that guy's a freak I talked a lot about I talked a lot about how I was gonna drink some And I talked so much Like before our first guy I talked so much garbage about I was like oh I'm gonna drink it And when the time came I'm gonna tell you guys I could do it I could not do it It's hard to get back to sucking on those things too it's strange you know it's like once you think of them as oh makes it kind of switches back i mean for the food comes out for the baby and then all sudden you're like yeah baby it becomes strange it's like wait a video what is that place exactly maybe maybe that's when that's when a man becomes a man when the first time he just takes you know there's like a state of grace where it's like for like six months at least after she stops breastfeeding you leave them alone so true but you can't mess with them during the breastfeeding yeah when you have kids yeah and you're moving in on your kids when you have children you see a woman goes for that you do look at women differently that's for sure like yeah when I was my 20s girls were you know they were soft boys they were like oh look play let I'll play with it how come you not just like me why isn't your mind like mine why can I get along with you how what do you mean you fell asleep during raging bull I have to break up with you that's outrageous yeah how do you not like fighting and stuff you know but um like I thought you me with tis that's weird but then you realize they're completely different it's totally different species totally different species yeah it's that's my take has always been that we're never really the idea that we're gonna like somehow or another be able to understand what it's like to be pregnant or do even want to be pregnant the whole idea of being attracted to a guy it's like so alien to us that we really don't we talk about this earlier like guys that say like we're pregnant yeah what I said to Steve, he goes, yeah, you know my wife just had a baby, right?

[54] I was like, that's the way to say it.

[55] My wife just had a baby.

[56] Don't be like we just had a baby.

[57] You did not.

[58] No, we are pregnant is the worst.

[59] Oh, it annoys me. That's the worst.

[60] We just had a baby's okay because you're together.

[61] I would say my wife just had a baby.

[62] I might say we just had a baby.

[63] I definitely wouldn't say we're pregnant, though.

[64] That's stupid.

[65] It's annoying.

[66] It's supposed to be like a solid.

[67] It's supposed to be a solidarity thing.

[68] Or how about guys who have sympathetic pregnancies?

[69] dork with their breasts hurt that's a guy just giving up his balls way too quick way too quick he's just ready he's ready to chop him off he's pulling on of himself he's stretched him out of himself like where do you want to cut high low don't trust you brother don't trust you yeah you're not coming hunting with us you crafty bitch we're pregnant shut up shut up stupid you'll cry when the shit hits the fan I know you will I know you'll break you're right shut up the deer is smelling your estrogen you will break under pressure bitch yeah okay you and your bitch you're gonna fucking sink this canoe stupid do you notice colors and fabric too yeah what is that when a dude will like try to feng shui your house oh man you know what you really should do you should move all this over to here and change who the fuck are you man man's house I expect to see just fucking if the dude's single I expect chaos I expect total chaos you know do you remember I remember I came to your house one time this was like literally you were 28 your house was he lived he was doing news radio and he lived way out in the middle of nowhere and and his house was so messier than mine and mine is messy but there was this nothing was put away like...

[70] You're just messy now?

[71] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, but it used to be.

[72] In the old day.

[73] But I said it, I go, why don't you get a maid?

[74] He goes, I don't want somebody rummage around rummaging around my stuff.

[75] I just, this is my mess.

[76] It was a cyclone.

[77] Fucking cyclone.

[78] It was crazy.

[79] It was great.

[80] Yeah.

[81] I couldn't take care of myself.

[82] But that's how almost every one of my friends' houses are.

[83] If I went over to your place when you were single, it's the same shit, You didn't have a doorknob.

[84] He didn't have a doorknob.

[85] I didn't have a doorknob.

[86] I'm not bullshit.

[87] He had a place in Venice, and he didn't have a fucking doorknob.

[88] He was appalled.

[89] And one time while he has...

[90] Did it have a doorknob when you rented it?

[91] Dude, I literally didn't have a doorknob, and I just figured nobody's going to break into my house.

[92] Tell him the story about the...

[93] And so one day, he fucking wakes up, and there's a homeless lady inside his house cooking breakfast.

[94] Literally, literally like cooking.

[95] She goes, you got it going on.

[96] I'm like, what do you mean?

[97] I got it going on.

[98] I actually wasn't.

[99] I didn't wake up.

[100] I came in.

[101] I came in and my neighbors go There's a woman in your house cooking And I come in She's got a meal Like prepared She's got My pit bulls are like Hey man She was feeding my dogs And now you guys have children Yeah Yeah she wasn't Unfortunately she wasn't that attractive Back then though Listen But I didn't The being attractive Wasn't like really on the criteria If you were a girl I was like all right I'm in If you go to Ari Shafir's house He tells me that sometimes He doesn't change his sheets For six months That's guys Dude in college I used to change my sheets Only when I change girlfriend the only time I would ever watch I'd be like oh yeah it's probably washing it's well especially if you get used to live in camping style and you're hunting all the time like you are like you know I didn't hunt it in college we kept dishes in the sink for so long in college me and my two other my two other roommates I swear to God that we had shit growing out of the drain we had sprouts in the drain we'd grown fucking sprouts did I ever show you that thing the thing that grew in my toilet?

[102] Did ever show you the thing that grew in my toilet?

[103] There was apparently a crack in the pipe below my toilet and a root got in there and grew to the size of like a muskrat or something.

[104] It was crazy.

[105] It was like this long and it was growing it's like my toilet wouldn't flush or it would drain really slowly I couldn't figure what is.

[106] It was an organism living off my shit water.

[107] That's wild.

[108] I mean we literally livery off my shit water and fat and thick Like a tree.

[109] It looked like an animal.

[110] Wait, it was, but it wasn't, it was a bark, a piece of.

[111] Like a little root, a little root got into the pipe and then.

[112] Yeah.

[113] The root grew, the roots are crazy, man. They can grow through pipes and they can, they can.

[114] Yeah, like, you see that something you add in called root killer.

[115] Oh, yeah?

[116] You flush down your toilet.

[117] I don't know.

[118] I don't know.

[119] I'm something to be in, like, really, like, but I'm so fussy now and fastidious about my home now.

[120] Because at a point, you like, identify with your home, you know.

[121] Yeah, but also you get tired of this.

[122] Yeah.

[123] Now, like, everything's just.

[124] right i think as you could only want to simplify i'd be like lying in these water yeah yeah and you know you're a father and you have children you don't like exactly exactly because i grew up in a neat home but you take a break and then you go then you like act like your parents it's kind of true like i i i kind of grew up like i remember a one day things had to be neat i got tired of the mess and and things had to be ordered and and simple and clear i don't know when the fuck that happened to me but i know it happened some one day i was like just woke up this is messy i need to i don't know i got tired of the mess yeah maybe it's hormonal you think so i don't know something i just i just it's smart it's smart to have a clean environment when your environment is clean it makes you think better yeah if you're completely cluttered that's exactly it largely it's mental peace of mind yeah like when i get up if i'm writing whatever and i get up i can't write until the dishes and stuff are done really and in a way it's like a procrastination thing you know because it helps you put stuff off like if you were really diligent really disciplined you'd be able just work through the mayhem yeah you know for me i got everything's got everything's got to like nice and buttoned up you know j j j abrams you know the guy who's directed and written everything from me created loss to like he's genius and i i just tested for a tv show with gregg grungberg who's who's in the heroes he's uh he's his best friend since he was three and then greg's a great guy and and he said that when he pitches j j j abram's an idea JJ goes, I don't want to hear it, write it.

[125] And he goes, I know, but I just want to hear it.

[126] I don't want to, and he goes, what are you doing?

[127] And he goes, the energy that you're using right now, all the energy that you're excited about should be in, in, you should be doing this with that energy.

[128] Why are you not doing this with the energy?

[129] Why are you not writing that energy into the idea?

[130] Because this is procrastination.

[131] You're waiting for my point of view.

[132] That's procrastination.

[133] It's kind of cool.

[134] Like he was no time.

[135] All his energy is, is, is, we use for to worry or to think about other things.

[136] it's in it's it goes right into his work channeled out of yeah if he can only get that jack son of a bitch to stop dialing in the last season you're talking about uh the pilot guy he dialed it in the last season i gave up on loss because of him oh i didn't see it i didn't see it i've been obsessed with breaking bad man i'm almost done with loss is a brilliant i'm just fucking around about the pilot if he's out there listening just it was one episode that was ridiculous i forget what it was like they were by a puddle that brings people back to life or something like that and he's just standing there like what the fuck am I doing towards the end towards the end lost guy like they went off the crazy train people are coming back to life and shit I never watch that show time traveling back and forth I mean it was like all right where's the fucking polar bear man whatever happened to those polar bears where are those things they ended up being in purgatory right wasn't that what the I didn't even stick around to the end I'm like whatever the wind monster remember the wind monster coming and fuck everything up It was a great show.

[137] It was scary.

[138] You were wondering what was going on.

[139] It must be so hard to do something like that.

[140] Do a show like that just to create it.

[141] Keep coming up with ideas.

[142] Jesus Christ.

[143] And basically you have to keep up, you have to keep surprising your audience.

[144] For years, it was a brilliant show for years.

[145] Like a brilliant show that really left you, like, hanging on the edge of your seat.

[146] I moved, I got on to it in the DVD form, though.

[147] So I got to watch like a whole shitload of it once.

[148] It's the only way to do it, though, right?

[149] Yeah, it was awesome.

[150] I watched, like, the first.

[151] two seasons like in a row you know so it was great and then you know like you don't you don't get tortured i gotta do that with home yeah that style that like style of that like style of tv watches changing the tv experience in a way you think so yeah because i think like just the idea of every you know of a serial being like everyone has like this cliffhanger element and there'd be like time to anticipate but now i think it's largely generational but now you get turned down to something and you're like well i'm not going to do that i'll just go rent them and watch the whole thing all the way through.

[152] Right.

[153] You know, and it's just a way different experience than kind of like watching a little bit and then for a week thinking about it and watching a little bit.

[154] And I think you burn out faster, you know.

[155] Every time I get into a show, like if we get interested in a show, my wife and I'll just go Netflix or to rent or whatever, and we burn out before you would.

[156] Because it's not meant to be, you're not supposed to sit there and watch four half hours in a roll some night.

[157] Unless you're Joe Rogan.

[158] Do you know what I mean?

[159] I know you can do that.

[160] Yeah, I can watch it easy.

[161] Yeah, I've got a problem.

[162] then you get eight episodes in you're like eh you know i'm over some shows yes it wasn't playing out the way it was supposed to play what are your favorite what do you have a favorite tv show you like really i just don't take in a lot of i don't take in a lot of tv but if the show i like i feel like they quit making them i watch like i like curvy enthusiasm yeah that's i don't but i don't watch it's don't you like comedies right that's because i like stuff that so far you know i like something so far you know i like just so far removed from anything in my life or anything that I do or think about you know and so it's just like a show like that you know like a comedy like that is funny to me but I just don't I just have never been that interested in watching TV shows I don't know I like watch movies a lot um so I tend more to while I watch a lot of foreign movies I don't know I just want stuff that's just like coming at me from way outside of yeah there's so many good like drama TV shows now there's so many shows that it's like yeah from Dexter and breaking back Yeah.

[163] It's because it's so hard to make movies right now, right?

[164] You saw all that is.

[165] Is that what it is?

[166] Yeah.

[167] You're getting these like that Homeland Show.

[168] That's a fucking unbelievably good show.

[169] I mean, that is a - I've only seen four episodes and I've got to, once I'm done with Breaking Bad, I'm on that.

[170] Dude, it gets better.

[171] It keeps getting better.

[172] That show is incredible.

[173] That's amazing.

[174] That's a good fucking show.

[175] And it's like, this is like a movie.

[176] You know, like you're watching.

[177] Like, this is like movie quality shit.

[178] Whereas before, you know, you were watching like the $6 million man. you know what I mean like TV one point I was it was like filled with dog shit we're like in the golden age of TV in some ways I mean I really think so yeah yeah but the thing I always feel about TV like when I'm watching dramas I always feel like I'm watching people like oftentimes I feel like it's being written from an angle they don't really understand the world they're writing about like period piece type shit no like even the thing like the HBO vampire show oh that's like it's like a bunch of dudes like imagining the south like i got it it'll be they all heck you know i mean and it just kind of wasn't being like has any you've ever and i don't know it yeah i'm not like don't know much about this but i know enough to know that it just feels like someone picturing what it would be like in their world well the guy who created if i lived in the south i would have to be like this well alan alan ball was from the south but he was a gay man in the south and i think if you look if you watch true blood vampires you know that's his experience it's i think i don't mean to put i know I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think it's what being a vampire in the South, like that has taken place, is what it was, it felt like to be gay when you were younger and it was a violent place.

[179] Like really campy.

[180] Yeah.

[181] Really campy.

[182] I mean, Trouba I think was a book or something like that, but I think that at the end of the day, if you can hear so, you can see so much of what it was like to be gay as a young boy growing up in the South.

[183] Yeah.

[184] You know what?

[185] Just knowing that alone, they make a watch from a fresh respect.

[186] that's what I believe I saw a thing and that's what I think you just made that shit no I didn't I didn't I didn't I was like I didn't I was like he took comparative literature in college I'm too high to remember I took comparative literature in college I'm gonna do the gender I'm gonna do gender analysis of the TV show I'm too high to I find it fascinating and I've been I've been really fixated on this lately how pusified movies and and television are getting to the point where the vampires that they're not like vampires they're like they could be kind of of your buddy you know they can hang out with you and so yeah it's like 90210 with vampires man it's like why but why vampires like why would you want to make like this horrific monster and change its nature and turn it into this romantic figure like what it but the my but my point is what i'm freaking out about is that like this whole trend like that born movie you know that born ultimatum or another fuck it is the new dude yeah the new dude is pretty fucking badass yeah jeremy renner he's badass okay he gets no pussy and the whole movie yeah okay he saves everybody this girl's weeping she's all over him but there's never a kiss never any desire on his part ever exhibited that he's even remotely attracted to these unbelievably hot women that he just keeps saving and they're falling in love with him and he's just kind of like blank and nonchal like what the fuck is the message there like are we becoming do we want our superheroes to be robot men there to service women and keep them alive and that's like the ultimate goal but no sex at the end of the movie they're sitting on a boat together and they're facing each other for not throwing in a love interest unless it was a love interest it was a love interest clearly yeah I mean he's saving her I mean you know the idea is that he's not really I think you're really single and she's hot I mean come on what are we stupid I think you're right on I think that's a really interesting observation though because if you actually think about it like the TV shows I've seen even homeland and and and certainly breaking bad the sex is is non -existent.

[187] In fact, your heroes aren't even allowed to be lusty or any of that stuff.

[188] They're not allowed to be like...

[189] Homeland, there's a lot of fucking...

[190] I don't know.

[191] I only saw the first five episodes, so I don't know.

[192] They get their free going.

[193] Oh, they do?

[194] But it's just interesting how...

[195] I wonder if that's true.

[196] It sounds good, anyways.

[197] I just feel like there's some pusification going on on a giant scale.

[198] It's like this toning down of male energy.

[199] Well, look at fucking every show on NBC.

[200] Community.

[201] All those guys have never done a push -up.

[202] It's all about being...

[203] Well, that's okay, too.

[204] I mean, that's not what bothers me. It would bothers me when I see, like, like, suppression of male shit.

[205] Like, I loved 007, like the James Bond movie, because he still gets laid.

[206] He's a single secret agent out there killing, and he's drinking, and he's, you know, he's a handsome man, and women want to have sex with him.

[207] Let's do this, okay?

[208] I enjoy a full superhero lifestyle movie.

[209] I don't want a guy who, for whatever reason, is not sexually attracted to this chicky saving.

[210] This guy's a sociopath.

[211] He's a fucking psycho.

[212] He's just out there kicking ass and he doesn't want to get laid.

[213] You don't want him to be like monastic too, yeah.

[214] Yeah, I mean, the beginning of the movie, like, comes out of the water and it's like, it's freezing cold, but he's naked.

[215] He's not even fucking, you know, he's not even freaking out.

[216] It's not even shivering.

[217] He's just so powerful.

[218] Where is not shriveled up?

[219] No, no, no. You can't tell.

[220] You can't tell him that much.

[221] You know, Rob Stoke, I wrote Dracula in some ways as a reaction to the Victorian, and the repressive Victorian age.

[222] So when Dracula would come in to, he'd be this big handsome guy and a girl was sleeping and he would bite her neck and drink her blood.

[223] It was very kind of the idea was she had an orgasm when she was being sucked dry.

[224] It was kind of like a very taboo book when it came out.

[225] It was kind of a rebuttal to how repressively sexual the Victorians were.

[226] And Brom Stoker wrote sort of that reaction to it.

[227] Really?

[228] That's interesting.

[229] I always thought it was just a fake.

[230] movie or a book rather written about vampires it was an angry what was the connection between Vlad Tepis because there was a Vlad Dian paler he was the original yes count dracula they say that the idea was was based on this Hungarian I think maybe a prince or a warlord or whatever he was an evil mother he was probably a serial killer probably a serial killer who you know did all kinds of horrible things he would cook pieces of people and eat it in front of them yeah he would he would he put people on steaks just that's what they called him vlad the impaler he would shove steaks up their ass and then let them slowly writhe in pain it just as a associate them he would leave them on on you know on these big pillars like all through the town yeah he was an unbelievably evil guy all the depictions and images of him are him dining with like all these men on stakes like all around you hear about these like i think it was ivan the terrible in russia when when what whoever the artist was that did the winter palace I think it was the Winter Palace, like this beautiful, like this guy, it was a lifetime of, you know, 20 years of his, it's like his opus, this great artist.

[231] I mean, and if you look at it, it's, I think it's out of the Winter Palace or this church, this incredible church in Russia.

[232] And when he was done with it, and he presented it to Ivan the Terrible, Ivan the Terrible, was like, this is the most incredible thing in the world, thank you.

[233] And then he took his eyes out, so he couldn't do it for anybody else.

[234] Oh, dude.

[235] It's a good point that you could be like, you're.

[236] You could be a serial killer and just get in the exact right situation where you have a lot of power and just be able to just do it, but it would just be people are like a crazy rule, you remember that woman who's responsible for killing thousands of, she was a noble woman, and she was a serial killer of young women.

[237] I got to pull this up on Wikipedia because it's a fucking fascinating story.

[238] It's horrible, man. This lady.

[239] But they say serial kills.

[240] There's a book called A Murder Room and the guy who specializes in sadism and serial killers.

[241] He wrote what's called kind of like the double helix of the serial killers profile.

[242] Yeah.

[243] And he said that a lot of serial killers will definitely be, I can't remember what the world was, but they become like, they drink your blood, the lowest, the lowest rung where you're the full -fledged boogeyman.

[244] They eat flesh and drink blood.

[245] Elizabeth Bathory.

[246] That's this crazy bitch.

[247] Where was she out of?

[248] And what did she do, killed?

[249] She killed thousands of girls.

[250] She was Hungarian.

[251] Yeah.

[252] Yeah, she, they called it the blood countess.

[253] Apparently, she, uh, she just started killing chicks and really got to love it.

[254] And so it would just torture them and kill them and find pretty girls, just torture them and kill them.

[255] I mean, she just killed thousands until they finally, um, they, they didn't even kill her in the end.

[256] They, they locked her in a room.

[257] They gave her, like, a house imprisonment.

[258] Like, she was such a noble woman.

[259] She was a royal figure of some sort.

[260] Yeah, she was so, I mean, it's crazy fucking shit, man. I mean, that they didn't even kill her.

[261] She killed thousands of chicks.

[262] They don't even know how many she killed.

[263] She's a sadist, like...

[264] Oh, unbelievably evil.

[265] They're out there.

[266] But, yeah, Elizabeth Bathory, that's the chick's name.

[267] A lot of times serial killers like that have a particular taste.

[268] Like, it's got to be a specific kind of person, you know?

[269] Yeah, there's something that snaps, allows you to get a thrill off of killing a bunch of people.

[270] And there's a weird thing that happens to people with this whole...

[271] royalty thing.

[272] The idea of royalty is fascinating.

[273] That's been killing me lately because I don't know how you guys feel about, but watching Americans get so gaga over the English royal thing.

[274] Yes.

[275] Yes.

[276] It drives me nuts.

[277] It's so stupid.

[278] It's bad enough when the English do it, but when Americans do it, oh my God.

[279] That's their version of Kim Kardashian.

[280] It's the same fucking thing.

[281] Who are they?

[282] My father met a count or a duke.

[283] A duke.

[284] He was a duke.

[285] and they were at dinner and somebody said what do you do and he said nothing nothing at all anyway and he got going and it was so actual it was so natural for I take a stipend from the English government anyway I'm a Duke of course I don't do anything I'm royalty and royalty they get paid they get paid yeah I believe they get so I believe the state superstrous you guys met you know Mo he I think they get paid on the shooter on show he he was present when he worked on Ali and for some reason or no I remember how came out but he was like presented to one of the british royalty and it was like a guy comes in breaks down okay when he comes in like don't do this don't do that put these gloves on yeah yeah somebody said that to me i would be like no no thank you no thank you he said you want you know what in his defense he's like every like every part of you want to just say like no way yeah like no way because but but there's but you're part of this other thing like you're there It's a ritual.

[286] Yeah, and you're like people with, you're at people at work.

[287] You kind of like, I could make like my statement.

[288] Like I could express my liberty, you know, and like my, the fact that I'm not deferential.

[289] At the expense of like all this other stuff that's going on, he's like in the end, you just.

[290] But it's like, it's like, it's like covering your head in a synagogue.

[291] It's like covering your shoulders if you're a woman in an Italian church.

[292] There becomes a, there's a ritual and a protocol to everything.

[293] Yeah, but the thing about, it's a tradition.

[294] But with religion.

[295] know there's like something much more there's like much more deep seated but this is just strictly like I'll honor you because you belong to some lineage I'm not really quite sure how it came to be yeah and I'm not sure on the rules and regulations how it gets passed along but you we're picking you to now be the one that we're deferential to but it's actually a little bit it's a little bit different than that it's covering your it's un -American horse shit it's it's very British everything that we don't stand for we're like get the fuck out of here with your crown But in Britain, in Britain, they had what's called the Great Chain of Being.

[296] It was very, very central to sort of the British history and character, the notion that the king, the God was there, the king was bottom, then you had the aristocracy, then you had the nobility, then you had the merchant class, then you had, you know, the serfs.

[297] Where does Game of Thrones fit in there?

[298] Well, well, you never stepped out of for many years.

[299] That's why Britain was, it benefited from the notion that they had very strong institutions.

[300] And so when you had a royal person that you came in contact with, it was very important to observe ritual protocol and ritual sort of greeting and interaction because it kept the wall between you and the royalty.

[301] Because the entire society was...

[302] To the benefit of the royalty.

[303] Well, no, but also the whole society was built on not only the idea of this caste system, but also very central to the British character was that to esteem out of your class was actually considered heretical.

[304] It was considered to the detriment of the entire community and society, right?

[305] Whereas Americans, we're like, all I'm thinking about is climbing the fuck out of this hole and get into the top.

[306] It's interesting.

[307] A lot of people that believe that a society like ours, or at least how ours initially was born, is only built in response to suppression.

[308] It's like you have to have a situation like, England, where they're completely suppressing you to the point where you're willing to take such a great chance, but you already have a semblance of idea of order and society, which is based on their system of kings.

[309] And that's the weirdest thing is it's almost like the only way for us to have ever gotten to a position of power or a position of, you know, creating a culture, creating civilization, is that somebody had to take control.

[310] And ultimately, we are these weird fucking alpha apes.

[311] and we really want to be led by like one person or like one group or one leader or at least have someone at the very top that we can all agree to clap for and until we fill that goal then it becomes this wild fucking power struggle it's like the only way we can work together is through one person it almost seems like that well it's interesting though is the founding fathers had a rebuttal to that and George Washington most famously when they wanted to make them king said, I am not only going to not be the king, because we don't have kings in this country, we have presidents that are part of a structure, a structure that is directly responsible to the people, right?

[312] But that was sort of the idea, and King George, when he found out that Washington had refused the kingship and instead went and fucking retired, was like, that guy's the greatest guy of all.

[313] That's the American character.

[314] That was kind of sealed as, that was the great example George Washington did.

[315] he said you know don't ever call me king because that's that is exactly what we fought against well he's the exact opposite of this guy who's run in egypt now who tried to turn himself into a king moosey what a more crazy asshole it's it's so bewildering man it's so funny the way people act when you turn when you turn to tie it on man it's nuts just amazing he's like oh now i understand what mubarak was fighting for yeah he's like for this right here that's that's that's unfortunately, a great deal, that's the biggest challenge for the Arab nations is learning the benefits of democracy and not...

[316] Get through that king system that they have.

[317] Look at Maliki in Iraq.

[318] We basically created Saddam Light because Maliki now has his own police force to reports directly to him.

[319] You know, he's it's still, that's why the Sunnis are letting off bombs.

[320] There's still whether or not he can share power is a whole different story, you know?

[321] You know, I get with all, like, watching the Arab Springs stuff.

[322] I mean, I was always skeptical of it.

[323] And one way, in one way it was almost kind of embarrassing, like, just understanding the history of some of those areas.

[324] The way Americans would so quickly, like, forget our allegiances.

[325] And so, you know, we're going against Gaddafi.

[326] And, like, everybody's like, yeah, you know, the number one U .S. enemy, Gaddafi.

[327] Like, forgetting that we were doing all kinds of things through there.

[328] And, you know, and in some ways supporting Mubarak, in some ways, you know, later.

[329] Not in some ways.

[330] We supported Mubarak for 30 years.

[331] And we gave support of Gaddafi.

[332] for $3 billion in aid every year.

[333] I mean...

[334] $3 billion every year?

[335] Every year?

[336] But then so quickly people then, but so quickly people wanted to make the jump that like he was at this logical enemy, you know?

[337] And that was frustrating a little bit, but the main thing is when I was watching all that, I wanted to be optimistic, but I just feel like there's no way that this is just going to be smooth transitions.

[338] And there's this, there's this competing idea, like, when you're in American, there's like this competing idea we have between being pragmatic, you know, like we want these countries to be such in such way in order to secure our interests, but also we have this thing where it's like the only legitimate form of government is a democracy.

[339] And as we're going to find again and again, I'm definitely not like a, you know, definitely not an expert on world politics, but I think we're going to find again and again that other countries being democracies isn't always going to serve our own national security interests, you know.

[340] I think that we want to think that it's like that's dovetailed and it's not going to be that way, man. Like maybe they're better off having kings.

[341] You just got to go listen.

[342] Well, the president, respect.

[343] If you're like thinking about the actual people, you think about the actual people on the ground in those countries, it's like, yeah, I want to support democracy.

[344] But then someone like, you know, like, Morrissey gets elected, and you're like, that's not a democracy.

[345] Democracy's voting for the guys I like.

[346] It just depends on how you define it, because one of the things, Rory Parker, I believe that's his name, is a British MP, a part of the parliament.

[347] And he's walked every remote village in Afghanistan, every remote village in Africa.

[348] And he said he'd never been anywhere, any, even the most remote village in Afghanistan.

[349] He never met anybody, anybody, no matter how strong their tribal notion of the tribal systems were, he never met anybody who didn't want some say and who governed them.

[350] So that seems to be a human need and a human right and a human compulsion to have some say in who fucking, otherwise you get a guy like Ivan the Terrible who just amassed his power.

[351] We all have a natural, we all have a natural revulsion for that.

[352] We all have a natural kind of, I do think you're right that human beings.

[353] things need an alpha, a leader, and they always find a leader.

[354] But I also think at the same time, they want some say in that, in that process and in the ongoing process, that is, who governs them, you know, and it really feels like, like we talk about with kids, if you try to take a spoon out of their hand without explaining that you need the spoon, they, they'll hold on to that fucking spoon.

[355] And human beings seem to have a resistance, a natural resistance to those that would have power over them, you know?

[356] Yeah, I don't know exactly what you're saying.

[357] Yeah, if you think you're going to be the president and everything's going to be smooth sailing, you know how many haters you must have the moment?

[358] I think that's probably half the gray.

[359] Half the gray is realizing how many fucking people hate you.

[360] Sure.

[361] Those guys age badly.

[362] And, I mean, it can't just be the stress.

[363] You make one choice.

[364] You're going to make 50 % of the people happy and 50 % of the other people are happy.

[365] Yeah, that's the point of the way they got it carved down.

[366] That's not even 51%.

[367] It's like they got to carve down to 50 .1 %, you know.

[368] Yeah.

[369] And they're going to write books about you.

[370] How much we give Egypt every year?

[371] They're going to write books about you.

[372] They're going to make up lies about you.

[373] They're going to constantly every person on the opposite side of the fence, whether it be Democrat on your side, whoever's on the other team, they're going after you.

[374] But they're basically, because no one ever does it, and then no one ever does it for four years?

[375] Maybe they have.

[376] Has anyone ever done it for four years and just said, you know what it wasn't for me?

[377] No, no. Did not enjoy it.

[378] No. It's like something in use, like, as much as I hate this, I'm going to keep doing this.

[379] Well, I also think that whoever got you into that position of power, you owe them.

[380] There's obligations.

[381] I always think about what George Bush said about Hurricane Katrina.

[382] They were like, you didn't go down in New Orleans for five days or whatever.

[383] And then he said, well, here's the problem with me going down to New Orleans during that crisis.

[384] If I go down in New Orleans, I got to take 60 police cars and the resources of the city to protect me and to escort me to the damage sites.

[385] It costs, you know, a million dollars an hour or whatever.

[386] And you tie up a helicopter to like have a new sightseeing.

[387] He had all the rescue, all the stuff that should be given to the people on the ground at that time.

[388] And he said, that was the catch -22.

[389] I was going to get criticized if I land the Air Force one the day before.

[390] And that's one of the examples of being a president.

[391] You were always basically here.

[392] I think the idea that you have to physically be in an area in order to observe or to respect the fact that a tragic incident has took place as observed.

[393] It's pageantry, man. It's like you're playing like a psychological game.

[394] And I didn't ever heard that, but I would almost hand it to someone if you could make that point, but people are, like, people are so addicted to the pageantry of it.

[395] Yeah.

[396] They'd be like, oh, yeah, in order for us to recover from this, I need to fly around in a helicopter and have a governor show me that it's flooded.

[397] Because the other than that, I'm not going to believe it.

[398] Yeah.

[399] You know, and like, oh, you're right, it is flooded.

[400] How come he didn't come to visit us?

[401] How come he didn't come to visit us?

[402] Pageantry is a great word, by the way.

[403] I love the joke that Jeff Ross got up on to do the standard.

[404] We did this charity.

[405] after hurricane Katrina and he goes i went down there it's not that bad oh no but the way he said it was just like you know it was so ridiculous like that was his joke he goes i'll see what the big eagle is whoops yeah no he was kidding there's a there's going to be a higher incidence of those fucking gigantic 100 -year storms look in new york it is going to be there already is man yeah there's it's going to be even higher do you guys remember we're together and i was supposed to go to Texas and I flew home yeah I flew home for that thing for the for the that was sandy yeah I was it I was it yeah I was like I went home to be with my family and I was there and if you like if you were in my place you would and you didn't have the news or anything you would have just that got a little windy last night yeah and like a mile away or not even a mile away a half mile away cars are like floating down the streets and stuff but it was so crazy it was just a small area isolated like Like, well, no, it's just like, because it was so much the storm surge.

[406] Right.

[407] Do I mean, like, if you were, if you got above certain elevation, you know, you were fine.

[408] It was just, you would never have ever have known.

[409] It was like a little, there was a few more leaves on the sidewalk.

[410] But then just some short distance down, like you draw it to a certain elevation point, absolute mayhem, man. Yeah, because that area, that area had been underwater, I believe, before anyway.

[411] Really?

[412] Yeah.

[413] Yeah.

[414] So the sea level kind of went back to, that's what happened in parts of Jersey.

[415] The sea level just went back to what it was.

[416] Yeah.

[417] you know yeah it was the weirdest thing like you it wasn't just it was I mean it was just it wasn't like blowing and lightning and all it was just like the just the ocean kind of went I'll take that you know I mean they said parts of Jersey and those areas will never be the same they may never come back yeah there's there was areas that just got so wiped over there's to build something out there like the odds that would stay there and the odds of the water's not going to hit that spot again I was watching some of that footage of the the the tidalways in Japan and how how they roll through and it looks like just water and you think well it's just water they take everything like cars and boats you're in your car oh you know that that was some that that that that haunt that footage from that honed me for the longest time horrible people trying to get away from that and that and that in historical perspective compared to some of the events that we know have happened like giant tidal waves they know about that canary island's shelf apparently there's like a shelf in africa this gigantic volcanic shelf And when it breaks off, the fucking water comes at us and it could go deep in on the East Coast many miles, many miles.

[418] Yeah, yeah.

[419] Because you're talking about, like, essentially a mountain falling into the ocean and causing this incredible blast of energy which carries this water, this huge tidal wave that starts in the middle of fucking, you know, wherever that is, the Canary Islands, and goes 500.

[420] miles an hour across the ocean and then slams into a...

[421] 500 miles an hour.

[422] You can imagine some of the catastrophes, but there were so a few people that I mean, you must have just lost civil...

[423] You must have that time lost civilizations.

[424] Well, whatever.

[425] Sounds good to me. I think I made it up.

[426] But whatever it is, it's going to...

[427] I mean, look, they found many, many, especially near Spain, many, many sunken civilizations.

[428] They found the one that they're calling Atlantis, you know, whether or not Atlantis is actually a physical place, but it's got concentric circles.

[429] Just like they believe Atlantis did.

[430] I thought Atlantis was maybe inspired by, no, not Crackatoa, because that wasn't the recorded history.

[431] Yeah, that was the 1800s.

[432] Loudest Explosion never heard on Earth.

[433] Look, it's Pompeii, right?

[434] The pyroplastic blast that just...

[435] Yeah.

[436] I don't think, you know, it's really, there's a general consensus.

[437] I don't think they've reached that conclusion whether or not Atlantis was an actual place.

[438] Like, what exactly was Atlanta?

[439] Yeah, whether or not was...

[440] I was...

[441] I was...

[442] Yeah, it was Troy?

[443] Yeah, it was real.

[444] Yeah.

[445] That's a fascinating story.

[446] There's guys like, like, what was Troy and what is Troy and, you know?

[447] Well, that Troy was thought to be a myth.

[448] They got made a bunch of money.

[449] The California Gold Rush or something went and kind of like started mapping out what Troy was.

[450] Like his German guy, I can't remember his name.

[451] So is it like under contention whether or not that's actually Troy?

[452] Yeah.

[453] And I don't know where it's at now.

[454] I don't remember in college we talked about this and read this thing about this guy.

[455] This guy, the German had made a bunch of money in the California Gold Rush.

[456] And then went, you'd be able to find any little computer there.

[457] And went and spent a much time trying to locate Troy.

[458] And they don't think that it was over Helen, but it was like a trade war.

[459] and there's some mention of like some of the integral characters like not Odysseus or but some of the Agamemnon or some of the higher up kings there's some like historical allusion to who these characters might have been that got involved in that war but it wasn't like the face that launched a thousand ships I think it might have been a trade dispute but I'm telling you some dated stuff man because I was in college in the mid -90s mid to late 90s so that was what I knew then but you'll find that guy's name so the idea was that this guy he believed that it wasn't fiction.

[460] He believed that it was...

[461] He had devoted to the latter part of his life to identifying what Troy would have been.

[462] And he had a somewhat accepted...

[463] When I learned about this, he had come to a somewhat accepted conclusion about what Troy was.

[464] Maybe some of the principal characters were involved were in fact, like some of the people that are discussed in the Odyssey or in the Iliad were in fact living people at that time and they were engaged in a large and there was a large battle and a siege of a city and out of that was born that legend of the siege of Troy and in the story of the Iliad.

[465] You know what's really fascinating about like ancient Rome and ancient Greece and these incredible structures that they built is that they just all fell apart.

[466] Like nothing's going on there now.

[467] I mean I guess the people are living and they're having a good time living their life but no one thing, I mean Greece is all.

[468] almost bankrupt, right?

[469] It is completely fucked.

[470] They're fucked.

[471] They're fucked.

[472] And, you know, Rome, I mean, Italy is, you know, they're just kind of hanging out in Europe.

[473] But if you stop and think about what, you know, the insane society they had at one point in time where no one anywhere else in the world had anything comparable.

[474] People have, it is amazing, man. People have written, the stonework and people have written books and certainly articles about how Greece has never, hasn't produced a whole lot of artistic expression that's, you know, world -class artistic expression for, you know, 3 ,500 years or whatever for a long time, mainly because, you know, you have some examples, rare examples, but mainly because they have that legacy looming over them.

[475] If you go to Athens, the Acropolis is right there looking over the city.

[476] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[477] And it kind of humbles you a little bit.

[478] It humbles you, the idea of why would I do anything when I come from, when it's already been done, sort of the idea is, look at us now.

[479] And I don't know.

[480] I'm going to start filling my bookshel's at home with really shitty books.

[481] I can beat that.

[482] I can beat that.

[483] That's like, have you ever read any Faulkner?

[484] I was trying to write a screenplay in.

[485] I read Faulkner and I was like, what the fuck do I have to say about anything?

[486] The great genius.

[487] I'm reading like, his imagery and stuff.

[488] And I was like, first of all, I don't even know.

[489] It's the craziest.

[490] He was such a crazy, unbelievable writer, like on every level.

[491] It either beats you, or beat you down or motivate you.

[492] Yeah, but I was like, but what do I have to add?

[493] to the canon of literature.

[494] Hey, bro, you're going to write a fucking screenplay about, you know, but you got to keep doing it.

[495] You can't think like that.

[496] You can't be inspired.

[497] You cannot think like that.

[498] You can't think that.

[499] You have to be inspired.

[500] That can be very self -defeating.

[501] Of course.

[502] People do think like that.

[503] They fuck themselves.

[504] It's a trick.

[505] You got to just go, if you do the work, you have something to say, right?

[506] I mean, your experience.

[507] Someone said to me, goes, well, you know, listen, I'll never be well off.

[508] I go, what the fuck you say?

[509] How can you even say that?

[510] How can you even come out of your mouth?

[511] I'll never be well off.

[512] That's it.

[513] You tap.

[514] You're done?

[515] You're just going to like coast from here?

[516] Because they've been, they've allowed other people to define them.

[517] A lot of times that's how you define yourself and you hold on to that definition.

[518] Those lines become very strong because trying to step over them is too scary.

[519] You've been disappointed too many times and you've given up.

[520] But it's just, it's all a false belief system.

[521] Yeah, and it's how much energy do you have?

[522] How much do you have enough energy to really pursue things in a correct way?

[523] I transfer energy to being something called inspiration.

[524] You have no energy unless somebody provides you with a blueprint or the inspiration to do so, right?

[525] You know, one of the things they say is that if you can, a lot of times you can motivate yourself by defining what you're going to lose as opposed to what you're going to gain.

[526] We're really good at dealing with things like, I didn't get that and then we just come up.

[527] But they say that psychologists sometimes will tell you, what do you, if you don't do this thing that you want to do, what do you actually lose?

[528] are you not going to get what are you going to lose that you already have and when you start framing somebody's you know if you used to motivational you know incentives that way they they will tend to they will tend to work a lot harder i think about that all the time man i'm always motivated i'm always motivated by uh what you're going to lose as opposed to what absolutely man because i always feel like like i've carved out an existence that's way better than i would imagine out of carved out.

[529] You know what I mean?

[530] So it's like I'm not motivated by what I didn't get.

[531] I'm always motivated like in a way about what I did get.

[532] So you're like like I want to do some thing.

[533] Yeah, I want to do something.

[534] Like I want to be able like spend much time outside.

[535] I want to be able to hunt a lot.

[536] And then now it's not, I don't feel like I got jibbed.

[537] I'm like man, I got a hang on to.

[538] Well, you know, I got a sweet situation to hang on.

[539] It's kind of like, but it's as scary as anything.

[540] It's as scary as striving towards something.

[541] Well, I just realized like I went and bought some mats and I'm, I've been rolling with my buddy in my garage.

[542] And I was like, Why am I doing this?

[543] Like, what, he goes, what do you want to do?

[544] Because you don't want to lose your fitness.

[545] Well, I don't want to gain my black belt.

[546] I think I don't want to lose.

[547] Shut up, bitch.

[548] You do.

[549] No, but I don't want to lose.

[550] I don't want to feel like I lose my manhood.

[551] And I think that's what I'm kind of working to hold on to.

[552] Through age.

[553] Yeah, I think maybe I'm holding on to something.

[554] Something.

[555] And I'm trying to, when I do that, when I roll in my garage for an hour like I did the other day, I think I'm trying not to lose something as opposed to gaining something, maybe.

[556] I don't know.

[557] Maybe we're just, maybe I'm kind of playing.

[558] No, man, this is a great.

[559] I'm glad I came just for that little bit of insight about, like, you know.

[560] How to have be a loser?

[561] How to have a loser's mentality.

[562] To be motivated by the prospect of lost rather, motivated by the prospect of loss rather than motivated by what you might gain.

[563] That's right.

[564] Just fucking man up and do the work and shut your bullshit mouth.

[565] You're talking nonsense.

[566] Just fucking do it.

[567] If you want to get better at wrestling or jiu -s, you do it because it's fun.

[568] Stop with all this nonsense.

[569] You're flooding your own brain with horse shit.

[570] Am I doing this because I'm afraid to lose?

[571] Are you going to write poetry now?

[572] You're going to bring me flowers, bitch.

[573] Not until you start.

[574] Now you squash my poetic spirit.

[575] You just talk to me more.

[576] I had to call you out on that nonsense.

[577] That shit's nonsense.

[578] I was about to break into a song.

[579] Thanks a look.

[580] Thanks a little.

[581] You're talking nonsense.

[582] Why am I rolling?

[583] Because it's fun, stupid.

[584] You're a monkey.

[585] Monkeys like to choke each other.

[586] It's awesome times.

[587] Whatever.

[588] Why am I doing it?

[589] Come on, man. You can waste your fucking energy.

[590] Why?

[591] Why pursue these things I enjoy?

[592] Just fucking pursue the things you.

[593] enjoy.

[594] That's why you got to get rid of that fucking Prius.

[595] Hey, man!

[596] No, I know you don't want to drive that car.

[597] I'm trying to talk him into a Shelby Mustang.

[598] It's Barclone.

[599] I'm telling him that he has to understand this stage of life that we're in.

[600] The cars that are available to you right now are like little rides.

[601] Give me three cars.

[602] Give me three cars to get and make them kind of practical.

[603] Shut your fucking practical whore mouth.

[604] This is what you need.

[605] You need a Shelby Mustang.

[606] The new one.

[607] It gets to make some of you.

[608] You're going to be able to run your engine when you're stuck in traffic or something like that?

[609] Oh, you want to hear it.

[610] You want to be able to hear it.

[611] You want to be able to hear the rumble under this.

[612] It brings you back to your childhood.

[613] It will give you bursts of endorphins as you drive.

[614] It'll make you feel.

[615] You never had one.

[616] That's why because you never had one.

[617] You don't even trust me. And you guys sit around and thinking like, do I love this car because I'm afraid of losing something?

[618] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[619] See, that's a, yeah, that's what you think.

[620] That's an old one.

[621] Oh, that's a nice car.

[622] That's a 69.

[623] That's actually a cool car?

[624] No, no, no, no. I have one of the modern ones.

[625] I have a Show me the modern one The Shelby Gt 500 There's a new one that's coming out now That has 6662 Horsepower What the fuck am I going to do with that thing?

[626] Oh you're going to enjoy the fuck out of it That's what you're going to do That's a lot, man Because I think about horsepower in terms of boats And when you have a 600 and a six That's a lot of horse power Proposterous car for a human being to drive Absolutely preposterous So I'm definitely not getting that But give me something else to get that You should get that Just to just to fucking for once in your life life just have something like that understand what the fuck is going on i'm trying to tell you about something awesome and you're like oh i don't want to be awesome i know what you like stupid you just have never done this is your motivation in your car have to stop getting in it stop getting into my 12 year old psyche me and him have just like just not you just don't want to be as consumptive no i just know what joe's doing yeah i'm just lazy but i know what joe's doing i just just trying tapping into my he's like come on trying to excite his inner monkey get the fucking get that dog get the one that's going to fight somebody.

[627] It's like, no, go heavier, more, more.

[628] And I'm like this.

[629] I'm like, no, I'm a naturally moderate person.

[630] Stop and he's like, he's always behind me going, come on, pushy, push, push.

[631] He's like, he's my canary in the coal mine.

[632] We've, we've had fun for years.

[633] The greatest.

[634] We've had a good time, my friend.

[635] But I do always end up coming around.

[636] We know what I wanted to tell you about?

[637] I heard this day.

[638] You know that show, um, that show, wait, wait, wait, don't tell me. Wait, wait, don't tell me. It's on the NPR.

[639] It's like a question.

[640] But there's a head thing about the news.

[641] I want to tell you this, because apparently, I might have got this wrong, but I don't think I did.

[642] Last week they were talking about two weird 911 calls that came in, and a guy called 911 because his hamster had babies.

[643] Oh, my God.

[644] Apparently some guy last week called 911 because he saw a Bigfoot.

[645] Oh, my God.

[646] Well, who would you call if you saw Bigfoot?

[647] I think that would be the correct move.

[648] If you really did, no, let's say.

[649] Now, I know you don't believe in Bigfoot.

[650] I've talked to him.

[651] You've talked to Bigfoot?

[652] Steve Renle.

[653] I like your theory about why Bigfoot can exist.

[654] because he has no hair on his top of his feet in his hands, right?

[655] That's someone else.

[656] Mine is just that he can't exist because there would be dead ones laying around now and it.

[657] Like every other thing that's very rare.

[658] How many times have you ever seen like a dead mountain line?

[659] Have you seen him?

[660] A vet?

[661] No, I mean, not ones you shot.

[662] I mean, have you ever run across one that you found that had just died of natural causes?

[663] I'd like to lie to and say that I have found lines that died of natural causes, but I have not found lions that natural causes.

[664] but um i've seen them in the wild three times right three times yeah the i mean i don't i don't have any chips in the saskatch camp yeah but jane goodall says that she believes that it exists and that's fascinating to me she thinks there's a there's a there's a native species we have she thinks it's a gigantopithe what about those ones that what more do we know about those ones in the congo that are totally different animal yeah what what jane goodall believes i'm i'm pretty sure is that it's a gigantopithecus which was a real animal it existed in Asia the most recent example of it was a hundred thousand years ago so the idea is that we think it's distinct but it might not have been because we know it coexisted with people really it wasn't discovered I think until the 1920s it was I think it was discovered some somewhere in early in the 1900s there was a guy who came into a apothecary shop where they would sell like you know like fucking home remedies and shit ground goat dick and stuff like that yeah Chinese places are really into that and they had this giant primate tooth.

[665] And this guy examined it, he said, what the fuck is this?

[666] Well, it turned out it was a totally different species that nobody ever heard of.

[667] It's an eight -foot bipedal primate that buried its young, or buried it's dead, rather.

[668] Wow.

[669] Yeah, they believe they stacked their dead.

[670] Yeah.

[671] So the idea that this thing existed alongside human beings, and it really did.

[672] I love how they can, how they can, like, take a piece of bone and construct an entire...

[673] But the hard part they often can't, though.

[674] I mean, you can tell a lot, but there's a lot of, I mean, like, and I don't criticize people.

[675] Like, a lot of people get off on looking at mistakes, you know, that scientists have made, like, oh, they thought this, and now they're telling this this.

[676] It's like they're trying to put together a cohesive narrative, and it's, and the scientific process is always inviting people to add on and make corrections, but some people are fixed on this idea that if you can't get everything exactly right the first time, you have no business even dabbling it.

[677] Right.

[678] So I'm not, like, when people have made mistakes in talking about, like, lineages, I'm not down.

[679] on them, I don't like glorifying the mistakes to point out that it's all futile and, you know, it's all BS.

[680] But they make mistakes.

[681] Mistakes are made, you know.

[682] And I think you've got to continue chipping away out and can you try to add to it.

[683] But the Bigfoot thing, of all of our, you know, the species that we have, the endangered species that we have, and I'm talking about North America, the ones that we knew we had and they went away, went away.

[684] And some of the ones that we knew were hanging on, we still have a big problem with mortality on those.

[685] things and we find them you have like very few florida panthers every year they're getting hit on the highway thank god kill those creepy fucks hey dog eating assholes no dog eating assholes dog eat and i love panthers how would you like not like panthers one ate my dog whatever you got a dog do him the lion here yeah but they're awesome yeah they're beautiful but they're killers they're fucking killers they shouldn't be in america so are humans i'm not tolerating that shit yeah the only reason i'm not saying is that no you don't believe that Anything that can kill me, you can go fuck yourself.

[686] If it might eat you one day, did you ever see that video of the woman in Russia where she's in a town in Russia and a polar bear has made its way into the town isn't attacking her and everyone's screaming and throwing shit at the bear.

[687] Have you ever seen that, Jamie?

[688] No, dude.

[689] Pull that up.

[690] Yeah, woman attacked by polar bear in Russia.

[691] Yeah, it's a fucking, it's terrifying.

[692] The bear is just picking it up.

[693] It's legit.

[694] No. Yeah, 100%.

[695] And she got away.

[696] She got away because a guy threw like, it looks like he threw a tie.

[697] iron at the bear and they clunked the bear and the bear just freaked out and ran away wow and she uh she had her pants down and she's like pulling her pants up and trying to get away the bear like who's the guy that films the launch man why wasn't he over there trying to help her out they were all yelling they were in apartment buildings they were terrified i don't get in there and well that's when you need a high -powered rifle they don't want to get eaten yeah you know if they don't have guns it's it's if i see a polar bear i'm running away guys i love you all if you see if you see a polar bear and he and he starts gouging you with the I would never be like Oh you know I'm gonna make a movie of this Yeah but Brian is not a polar bear It's really flattering on his path To compare him I do have broad shoulders There's a big difference Brian trying to eat people This is it This is the woman To see the middle of it See that lady right there It's like near that fence Watch this This is really fucked up man She's ducking right now Here comes a bear Look at the shit Look at this That is a fucking polar bear man And so here's some guy Throw something and hits them That's a young polar bear Yep But it's big enough dude Then they're little babies They will fuck you up That chick got jacked And look at her She's getting up And her pants are all fucked up Yeah Run girl run She's I think she's really hurt That's a scary ass animal man That thing just took a couple nips out In a village Just came into a village You know Yeah they don't fuck around They eat everything that moves Polar bears are way scarier right that's what they're worried about that hybrid the hybrid between the polar yeah yeah we'll keep turning up i know guy shot one now really there's a lot of them now i don't know there's a lot more i think they know they know about okay steve but they're not they're not viable they're not sexually viable right so this is a global warming thing is that what's going on i i know that the theory i'm familiar with is people suggest that it might begin to happen more as you lose as the polar ice cap recedes and and polar bears aren't able to spend as much time out on the sea ice that they'll be coming inland more.

[698] So I think there's been, my understanding again, is there's been an increase in the distance inland that people have been encountering some bears.

[699] And it's a greater likelihood of bringing polar bears into what would be traditionally like interior grizzly habitat.

[700] And so some hybrids have turned up.

[701] But I don't know, they're not viable.

[702] And I don't know if anyone knows, like, in a bulletproof way that this wasn't happening before and it's happening now.

[703] But I think just in a logical sense, if there's not going to be the availability of sea ice, you know, bears are going to spend obviously more time on ground, which is going to bring them into, you know, when grizzly bears are out of hibernation in the spring, is going to bring them into more contact.

[704] So, I mean, that's what people say.

[705] But a guy, you know, there was a guy, not long ago just a couple years ago, shot one, and it was legit.

[706] You know, he knew it was weird when he shot it and took it in.

[707] He was a native guy.

[708] He was a native guy.

[709] And shot, and it was a child.

[710] checked out and it was that's what I want to know when we go hunting in Alaska are we going anywhere where there are hybrid bears because I will come with an arsenal my friend I don't know that you can really make the case the hybrid bears I don't know that there's the case we made the hybrid bears are more dangerous than non -hybridges well guess what since you can't make the case I'm gonna air on side of the car well how about I make the case that all bears are fucking dangerous what are you talking about man what you like oh plus he's only a grizzly it's not even a hybrid you fucking And look at you.

[711] Whatever.

[712] Golden Bears.

[713] You're weak, silly bitch.

[714] Big deal, guys.

[715] I'm going to leave some honey and you'll just go to that.

[716] If we go up there would probably, it depends.

[717] Like if we go to an area like a black, like just category, I don't worry.

[718] Like black bears, you don't worry about blackbirds.

[719] People just generally don't worry about blackbirds.

[720] But if you go to, you know, if you go to an area that has mixed populations where you have, you know, in the interior areas that you might be hunting blackbirds with you be grizzly bears around, you definitely got to pay more attention to them.

[721] I mean, it's just like.

[722] Yeah, but wait.

[723] You've got to pay more attention to them mainly.

[724] You owe it to the area and you owe it to the animals to pay attention to it.

[725] Because if you just have negligence and it leads to a conflict, you know, and define, define pay attention.

[726] You've got to look out for them all the time.

[727] Be aware.

[728] Don't do stupid things in your camp.

[729] Don't invite disaster.

[730] Which is food.

[731] Just being clean, keeping, like, being cognizant of what threats are.

[732] Well, say we're, see, here's the thing.

[733] It's dark.

[734] We're cooking meat.

[735] which we did last time that seems to be inviting bears in yeah i think that i think that the goal though is to kind of strike a balance i mean you could live like this really like and i know some people we call them being baranoid okay i know some baranoid guys who everything they do is like their whole experience in the woods becomes tainted by their fear of bears yeah well that would be that's me they like you know they'll only like they'll go off in some other place hundreds yards away and eat, like, food that they imagine would be unappealing to a bear and do all this kind of crazy stuff and, like, you know, they got their, they brushed her teeth off in a different area and hang their toothbrush up in a tree because it might smell the thing, or they don't go out in the woods if they're, you know, if their wife's menstruating, you know, they don't want to go out in the woods of her, and you can go crazy, or you can be, like, crazy in the other extreme and just, like, you know, drag a, kill an animal, drag it back to camp and gut, and then leave the guts laying there for five days to ripen in the sun next to your tent, which would be like the other kind of ridiculous, or you can kind of walk a moderate line.

[736] And if you can do things without, like, tainting your experience, but just like little common sense issues, not camping right on top of carcasses.

[737] If you're cooking smelly food, like fish and fish guts and stuff, be careful about getting rid of that stuff, putting your food up in a tree, if there's trees available, if there aren't things, then you put your food somewhere where you can see it and monitor it, lay sweaty clothes.

[738] on top of it to enhance the human order in the area.

[739] I mean, just little things you can do that don't ruin your time, but that you're generally trying to, like, decrease the chance that you're going to have a conflict that's going to have to get the government involved, and they're going to come out and have to kill some bear because you've got trouble with you.

[740] So Grizzly is when they smell humans tend to avoid humans.

[741] I think, yeah, and even the ones that don't have experience with humans, you know, like if you go in a really remote area where you run into a bear, you run into like a two -year -old bear.

[742] three -year -old bear and it's reasonable to assume he has not had a direct interaction with a human you know it's possibly he just has it his parent his mother could be 12 years old and she's had a handful throughout 12 year old life but the young one might not but when they smell you oftentimes it just it's new it hits them on like they just smell it I think they got the world divided into smells good don't smell good yeah and I think that some smells like like a human smell is kind of like I don't like that smell.

[743] And it was a behavior posture.

[744] We were talking about a hunt we did on the show where they had to run a bear out of camp.

[745] And just coming at that bear and trying to look big and pissed off and like unyielding speaks to the bear.

[746] And he's not going like, oh, there's a person and he's likely to be armed.

[747] He's just thinking, whatever that is, that thing is pissed off and coming at me. For the folks who don't know what we're talking about, the Tim Ferriss episode of meat eater is when they went caribou hunting in Alaska.

[748] If you were looking for the one to watch on TV, that's the one.

[749] If you're looking for this particular situation.

[750] But these were big bears.

[751] There was one you saw and then an even bigger one that was running towards the camp.

[752] And a lot of people are more afraid of the little ones.

[753] Really?

[754] Because the little ones haven't, they haven't accumulated that a set of experiences that teaches them, like, what's good and what's bad.

[755] You know?

[756] Just think about, just think about, like, adolescence.

[757] You know, if you think about, if you're going to get in, like, a road rage incident, in some ways, a road rage incident with a guy that's 50 isn't quite as dangerous as it might be with a guy that's 18.

[758] Like the guy that's 18, you don't know, you know what I mean?

[759] He still might be, like, sorting through some stuff or he might be willing to, like...

[760] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[761] He's not aware of how long life really is.

[762] You know, I mean, like, uh, you know?

[763] There's like a, uh, you know?

[764] Yeah.

[765] And I think that, and so some people that...

[766] And these are guys that know, there's some of you guys know so much more about bears than I do, but people that know, like, look particularly, like, the particularly dangerous bears, the bears to watch out for, are the ones that have been recently kicked out by the mother.

[767] And the males will get kicked out and tend to have to go farther a field to find a home range.

[768] Everywhere they're going, they're getting beaten up by a resident bear.

[769] They don't have a good lock on available food resources yet.

[770] It's very likely that they're hungry, they're inexperienced, they're pressured, and when you encounter those, those are ones that people watch out for.

[771] That's a theory about it.

[772] Is that black bears as well?

[773] but I think that those blackbirds are more likely to end up like in some tree in the middle of a town give the young displaced ones but again I just like generally and you can cite examples of things that happen like generally blackbirds are just not a I don't think of them as a dangerous bear I don't think of blackbirds being any more dangerous I think a deer being dangerous I just I'm just not bothered by black bears there's a crazy video recently from somewhere in Canada where these dudes are tree they're in tree stands and they're standing there and the bear for whatever reason just run up the tree and is beside him in the tree.

[774] Yeah, man. In like a couple of seconds.

[775] And he's like, they're talking to each other, and they're filming this.

[776] That bear probably smelled something.

[777] Yeah.

[778] Like my dad's buddy got, as much as I just said, you know, my dad's buddy got mulled because he was hunting bears from a tree and a saw with cubs came in.

[779] And he didn't want to shoot the sow with cubs, you know, most places you can't, but that souse smelled something.

[780] She smelled a person.

[781] And her response was to shoot her cubs up a tree to safety.

[782] Wow.

[783] And she shoot him up his tree.

[784] So when they came past him on his tree, they started squealing.

[785] And then she came up and mauled his lower legs.

[786] I remember one night we were sitting in our house.

[787] My dad got a phone call.

[788] This guy he used to hunt with had gotten his lower legs mulled by his bear.

[789] And he eventually fended her off, was trying to fend her off of the arrow.

[790] And the two coves then she came back down the tree and then she let him be.

[791] Oh, my God.

[792] So, yeah, there are, there are instances.

[793] But you can also, I mean, if you're just like cruising YouTube, I mean, there's plenty of places where you go find a deer knock the hell out of some.

[794] Yeah, look at this bear, climbing this ladder.

[795] He's climbing a ladder?

[796] What are you doing there?

[797] You know, it's not a big bear, though.

[798] Because look at its ears.

[799] No, is it the best thing to do?

[800] Just talk to him.

[801] Look at that bear ran away.

[802] That's big enough.

[803] Yeah, that's big enough.

[804] Just shooting, I mean, like, the, the accepted, well, see, here's the thing is, like, some people say that, like, like, like, like, in this, you know, it's, like, if you look at, like, when bears actually attack people, it's so, it's, like, often, Sometimes just weird circumstances or unpredictable things.

[805] But the general thinking on it, the general wisdom on it, if a black bear does attack you, it's predatory.

[806] He's not defending territory.

[807] If a black bear attacks you, he's like, I'm going to eat that.

[808] So the thinking is you fight like hell.

[809] Fight like hell.

[810] Christ.

[811] If a solid grizzly with cubs, you spook it, and it attacks you, what it's doing is it's neutralizing a threat.

[812] So then the thinking is, play dead.

[813] get cover you know because right here's where like here's where they're going to kill you you cover this and curl up and don't move and she's like take that bastard and walks off you know and again a lion like if a lion was to hit you you're supposed to just go ballistic on it because it's a predatory response that it's happened so when black bears like when you do hear of black bears when they attack it's good to know they attack kids and like lions often attack like small women joggers like small women joggers seem to get attacked by lions or young kids attacked by lions.

[814] Yeah, so that thing's like, I'm going to eat that.

[815] Jesus.

[816] You know.

[817] Wow.

[818] But then Grizzlies eat people, too, man. Like, you hear about people, you know, they get that by bears.

[819] Yeah, there was a guy recently, they think it was a hybrid.

[820] No, no, I'm saying.

[821] There was a guy who was a minor, and he went and to get groceries in town, and apparently his boat died.

[822] His engine died, so he pulled over, and that's where they found his body.

[823] He had been consumed.

[824] He had been mostly consumed.

[825] Yeah.

[826] And they think, yeah, they think that that might have been a hybrid you know what's weird i was reading i was reading this book by i was reading this this bear hunting book by this writer tony russ and in uh he was talking about that that like on kodiak island like in the lasca peninsula areas that just have really dense grizzly populations or you know brown bear grisies the same thing just people generally say like brown bear for coastal grizzlies right grisies for interior and um he was saying that that the grizzlies like the male grisleys will come out and when they come out in those areas they have you know they'll may have like a grizzly for every one or two or three square miles, so a lot of them, a lot more dense than most other areas.

[827] They'll come out, and when they come out in the spring, they're hunting cubs.

[828] Wow.

[829] That's like, that's what's on the menu, man. It's like, there's so many of, and they're so vicious that they come out and, like, they, their food, a primary food source for some of these mature boars is grizzly cubs.

[830] Oh my God.

[831] And he'll go after, but he said, a weird thing is, and you know, they'll kill those cubs, and he said, and all of his hunting, when they'll kill a grizzly, or brown bear and skin it you know he said in all of his hunting he's talked to other guys too he's never seen a he's never seen where a brown bear consumed the skinned out carcass of another brown bear so they eat cubs but they never eat the bear itself and he mentions in this book he talks to some other people he's talked about some guy like 20 years of hunting whatever if they've never seen the carcass of an adult get cannibalized wow but they'll hunt down and it's like a it's like a active prey for them so when they're hunting the cubs do you think that it's a response to like controlling the environment not letting any new members in i think it's i think it's too thing i think it really is food yeah but it's also that they know that that that saw will go back into estrus because she's she's only gonna she's only gonna put off she's only gonna put off cubs maybe every few years i heard dolphins do that as well dolphins murder babies if they know that the woman uh because she won't mate with uh with the dolphin yeah they'll yeah we're they'll in And then there's that blue whale, too, will drown, the blue whale will drown, you know, they'll drown a female's calf because they, you know, she'll breed again.

[832] If not, she's not going to breathe for years.

[833] Yeah.

[834] It's rough, man. Yeah.

[835] There's a lot of, like, people that really try to, like, dress up the animal world.

[836] Like, everybody's always, oh, innocent, this.

[837] It's like, there's some, there's some wicked stuff out there.

[838] But those big boars, he was talking about this dude, Tony Russell's talking about these big boars, they'll go out and dig dens.

[839] Jesus Christ.

[840] They come out early, and the females will come out later.

[841] So the females will be in the dens of cubs.

[842] And those boars will go around doing sight.

[843] visits no dig covered out of the den either and and i imagine they're probably a little bit indiscriminate like there's a chance he's going to consume his own offspring but he's also thinking that all these sows that wouldn't be available to me for two years three years are going to be available to me this june wow you know in june or july when they go to the females defend they have to you know they have to and i feel like i i've seen and also talk to and heard for people who talk about that they've seen instances where a female has fought them off yeah where the male wasn't that committed you know because i mean it's going to come out of it's going to come out of price to them but then some of these may i mean some of these males are so big that they're they can get off to be where they're they're nearly twice as big you know they're battle hardin man yeah yeah this wicked though that movie grizzly man yeah when those two bears go to war they start duking it out like unbelievable footage that guy got like i'll tell you what that's some of the most impressive people are always down on that guy you know for all these reasons But I'll tell you what, man, that dude's a hard camper.

[844] Oh, yeah.

[845] You go, like, do it because I get a funny play of putting it.

[846] No, he'll out camp anybody.

[847] And people in Alaska always, like, like, people in Alaska get really offended when, like, an outsider will come up and do some, like, thing, like, go camping for a long time.

[848] So, like, he gets eaten by bears, and everybody's like, oh, he's so stupid.

[849] But the guy knew he was going to get eaten by bears, and he out camped everybody.

[850] You go on to an area like that, it just rain.

[851] And he camped seven summers in a row all.

[852] summer long people like oh yeah but he had his girlfriend with him that could make it worse man it's like to be uncomfortable with your girlfriend is is like worse than being uncomfortable while yourself yeah you know because you're right being uncomfortable for two people and there's a certain amount of responsibility that comes with that yeah he was a hard camper especially if you like her and yep because you're just watching it crumble yeah and he was a hard camper and he collected some footage that fight is unparalleled unbelievable it's just amazing they believe the power in those two boars is just like my god you and they duked it out for quite a while he got like really close up footage for the folks who don't know what we're talking about these two bears just fighting over territory it's worth watching that movie alone it's worth watching grizzan alone to watch those boars go ahead each other they devastate that area yeah and that's not like a common thing to see like in that that close that good of footage for that long it's a long ass fight I had a butt I got like you can hang out on the woods so much you know and not you can hang out in the woods so much and then when you look at all the things you've seen out in the woods it's like it's startling like how few really weird things you see but it's proportionate you know no one just spends a little dinky bit of time out in the woods and then sees tons of weird stuff right it's like you got to put in the hours you know to catalog stuff like there's a guy I know this guy he's a guy Jay Scott and we were talking I was talking one day like I was feeling cocky because I'd seen three, I've seen three mountain lions while I was hunting, you know.

[853] And this guy, Jay Scott, just hunts.

[854] He's one of the best big game hunters, I know.

[855] And I was saying, like, you ever seen a line?

[856] He said, I'm looking for number 33 right now.

[857] Oh, holy shit.

[858] Not hunting lines.

[859] That's sitting and watching.

[860] Jesus Christ.

[861] Sitting and watching.

[862] Sitting and watching for a game.

[863] He had logged 32 that he spotted, not running him with dogs, just being there in the woods, watching, looking for lions with his blind.

[864] looking for game with his binoculars.

[865] And that right there, you can't buy it.

[866] You can't, like, and he's a very honest guy.

[867] That's like, that means, like, oh, that dude spent tons of time out there.

[868] And some of the things that that guy that was in the footage.

[869] And I'm only going by, and on a grizzly man, I'm only going by whatever I saw on that two -hour Herzog movie.

[870] Like, Lord knows how many things didn't make it.

[871] Yeah.

[872] Oh, is it, yeah.

[873] But he was out there and witnessed some amazing sights, man. Yeah, well, that's what people have to understand, that Timothy Treadwell's footage was all.

[874] turned into this Werner Herzog documentary, but this is just a piece of what this guy got when he was living up there.

[875] And I think a lot of people believe, look at that, they're going to war with each other.

[876] They're so powerful.

[877] They're good Greco.

[878] They've got good Greco, good underhooks, good control of the neck, that this guy had suicide by bear.

[879] That was the way he went out, that he knew that if he was there as late as he was, that the bears that would still be around would be really desperate.

[880] They were older bears.

[881] Oh, and you can imagine one of those things getting in a hold of you.

[882] Look at that power, man. Oh, yeah, they're going to town.

[883] And they're using real Jiu -Jitsu.

[884] Look at this.

[885] He's passing the guard.

[886] Look, it's filled on the hips.

[887] That's the guy's got a good open guard.

[888] And it's not, I don't know.

[889] It's not unreasonable to say that those are 800 -pound plus animals.

[890] Oh, yeah, those are enormous animals.

[891] I mean, we don't, it's hard to put it in perspective, but that's good J -Jitsu.

[892] I'll tell you that.

[893] He's in side control right now.

[894] He just passed the guard.

[895] He's in full side control right now.

[896] and he's got the neck and he could deliver knees to the head if that was allowed in bear fighting but it doesn't see look at that see that move that bear reclaimed guard god damn that is natural that bear reclaimed guard he reclaimed guard you can't let him get that back to guard again this bear is fucking crafty the bear on the bottom is doing a real good job defending himself this for real even though the other bear is bigger this what's going on there the way the bear fights is how they teach you to fight in jujitsu for real foot on the hips controlling his body not letting him get all of his weight on top of you, shifting your hips, so your feet touch onto his hips.

[897] You see the chunks of hair flying?

[898] There's an interesting bit of like bipedalism in this too, man. Like they're pretty adept at being on their back, you know, they're pretty adept at being on their back feet.

[899] The little guy ain't running.

[900] Well, when you see him standing up like that on their hind legs, that's when you realize how fucking enormous they are.

[901] Yeah.

[902] Look at the big chunk of hair missing from his back leg.

[903] Do an arm drag.

[904] Look at the size of the fucking light one.

[905] Look how big the light one is.

[906] Yeah, but check him out.

[907] He's being backed out.

[908] The younger ones got better Jiu -Jitsu.

[909] I told you.

[910] He fights off his back.

[911] He might be old and cripple, man. He wore out the big dude.

[912] Wow.

[913] The big dude got tired.

[914] The big one had a fight, had a hold of his face the whole time.

[915] You know what?

[916] Jitsu.

[917] The biggest bear I've seen, like on, these are black bears, but on Prince Wells Island where my brothers and I got a little shack.

[918] The biggest bear I've seen out there, and that's famous for big bears.

[919] The biggest bear I've seen out there was a big, injured old bear.

[920] I don't know what had happened, but he was just packing a leg.

[921] And he was kind of in the autumn.

[922] of his in the autumn of his career you know so he had been like probably the man and now he probably just gets his ass kicked wow yeah he just he's down by a salmon stream that couldn't really move and you can imagine now all the people he'd beat up because he could be old you know I killed to bear it was 17 one time 17 that's from tooth tooth tooth dentum analysis 17 he could you know he could have a lot of grudges against him now he's kind of down you know one of the the big board oh one of the cool things about the trip that we went on we should probably talk about that, huh?

[923] We haven't even talking about everything else.

[924] Am I allowed to people pissed on Twitter?

[925] What the fuck?

[926] Yeah, go pee.

[927] Go pee.

[928] And when you come back, we'll talk to you about hunting and manly shit.

[929] Yeah, you're allowed to say pee on this show.

[930] This show is casual as fuck.

[931] You don't have to worry about saying pee.

[932] What did you do this weekend, pal?

[933] What did I do this weekend?

[934] I don't know.

[935] I just watched the playoffs and I watched Nate's fight.

[936] And, you know, it was a Safferty and fought a great fight, man. It was a good fight.

[937] The whole card was good.

[938] Ask me that I'm doing Josh Barnett got a big win Yeah Yeah yeah Josh Barnett is tough Yeah He's an animal It's a good Good wood for him Because he was sick He had like a real tough camp Apparently there was Like He caught a real bad flu Or some sort of a bug Some kind of a cold He could not fucking shake it He said he only had a few days Of good solid hard training During the entire camp And sort of like Just fucking half assing it Or trying to Do his best But trying not to get sicker It's interesting to see Like where MMA is coming Because like If you're not prepared for someone's weapons and if someone hits you with something you haven't seen before like I was thinking about Nate getting caught with those leg kicks over and over again.

[939] It's very tough.

[940] It's very tough.

[941] I think Tarrick Safedine is he's a really classical technical striker and Nate Markhart although he's an amazing striker the knockout of Tyron Woodley that he's so amazing chaos towards the end but I think that technically If you look at all the best technical fighters, unless they're freaks of athleticism, unless they're just much faster than anyone else, they follow a certain number of rules when it comes to defending yourself, when it comes to carrying your hands, when it comes to how you fight.

[942] And one of them is you've got to respect everyone's techniques.

[943] So you've got to respect leg kicks.

[944] You've got to check leg kicks whenever possible.

[945] And I think the idea is that, you know, Nate was going to eat a few of them and just tag him with a big punch.

[946] That's a strategy that works.

[947] Is that one of those bears?

[948] No, Tim Sylvia knocked out Rico Rodriguez in the same way.

[949] Rico hit him with a leg kick and he was planted, take, he decided he's just going to eat the kick and blast the punch and catch a guy.

[950] So a lot of guys do that.

[951] And the guy like Marco has got that kind of power.

[952] Probably banked on that.

[953] And then somewhere along the line, Safedin hit him with too many of them.

[954] And he was like, oh, fuck.

[955] should have checked those so it's just a matter of anybody in the world absolutely he could and he might be able to beat seffodine when they fight again you know it's like he it's when you get when you're dealing with that level you know that high level of fighting teric saffadine it's a lot of times what it is is uh it's also how they match styles styles saffin's a really good wrestler because of his time with team quest like he's really hard to take down wrestling he's doing greco with throlympians like exactly so you saw like when Nate like was really struggling to take him down so Nate was forced to stand with him and he's forced to stand with him and saffadine is being more conservative, and he's being more technical, and so he kept landing those leg kicks, and, you know, neighbors looking for the big bombs.

[956] When Woodley thought it's happening, he just hit him with those low doubles and singles, right?

[957] He wrestled him.

[958] Yeah, and it's, and the one thing they say that Greco, they say that Greco guys have a tough time with freestyle wrestlers.

[959] Oh, yeah, man. Well, a lot of people have a hard time with a guy like Tyrone Woodley.

[960] He's just a fucking, he's a super strong dude with great wrestling technique.

[961] You know, and he's in condition, and he's smart, you know, and he trains hard, and he's a, A fucking super athlete.

[962] And he can punch the shit out of him.

[963] His wrestling is ridiculous.

[964] He gets a hold of you.

[965] You're going to go on your back.

[966] He's a big strong guy.

[967] But Nate beat him.

[968] And that was probably the most sensationally looked.

[969] So to go from that fight where he looks unbelievably good to this fight, just a little wake -up call.

[970] Maybe just be a little bit more technical or conservative when you're fighting a guy like that and to realize that that kind of accumulation of eating those kind of shots really can pay off.

[971] It's interesting because maybe Nate, I don't know, but maybe I wonder if Nate felt he was bigger and stronger so he could out crack a home.

[972] He probably did.

[973] He probably thought he would just blast him.

[974] After that Woodley fight, man, I mean, he knew he knew he knew a lot of people said it was a gigantic upset.

[975] I don't think it was a gigantic upset.

[976] I think it was Terrick Saffertyen's finest performance, but it wasn't like a gigantic upset.

[977] It was an upset.

[978] But you could see that Safferthian's an excellent striker.

[979] It's a great fighter.

[980] It's a very good fight.

[981] And a complete fighter.

[982] And that was like he realized his potential that night, you know?

[983] Yeah.

[984] But back to what I wanted to tell you about our trip, man. And thanks for bringing my skull.

[985] Oh, you know, thank Ryan Callahan, man. I love that dude.

[986] He's a great guy.

[987] Ryan Callahan is one of the guys that we went with.

[988] A real man. Yeah, he saw it through.

[989] He's such an awesome dude.

[990] The place where we went for dinner when we first came back, we haven't even showered yet.

[991] We stunk five days.

[992] If you need a great guy, if you need a great hunting guy, call Ryan Callahan.

[993] We were out in the, you know, camping by the side of the river for five days.

[994] days.

[995] We hadn't had any showers.

[996] And then before we even got to a hotel, we decided, let's go get some dinner somewhere or get some lunch.

[997] So we go to this place.

[998] And this fucking dickwad, who owns the place, has this shrine up to the fallen Marines.

[999] And he comes up to us and starts talking us about Obama.

[1000] And are you feeling so fun.

[1001] And the Benghazi attack.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] Oh, they killed my boys.

[1004] He's just this overbearing blowhard.

[1005] He's a real.

[1006] Aho.

[1007] And then he starts yelling at his staff.

[1008] And he starts yelling at a woman who works there.

[1009] And what, it's just like, dressing her down for no reason.

[1010] It's just, it's really embarrassing to all of us.

[1011] Dressing her down over order confusion that we created by having like a complicated order.

[1012] Yeah, and it wasn't anything that any of us had any problem with at all.

[1013] It was just like, oh, no, oh, no worries.

[1014] You know, everybody was fine.

[1015] But this guy's treating her like she just took a shit in the middle of your fucking chicken soup.

[1016] It didn't make any sense.

[1017] So Ryan, at the end of the dinner, he gets up and he goes over to the guy and he starts calling the Better Business Bureau.

[1018] on the phone and he tells the woman quit you need to quit you need to not work here just get out quit right now and he goes you sir are an embarrassment you know i'm a native montana and i have some people in here i'm showing them what montana's like and they have to see you exhibit this kind of behavior and i was like wow that's some john way man he was sitting there he defended that girl he was embarrassed for his region man he was embarrassed for that girl the guy started trying to talk and he goes i am not talking to you sir but i cannot understand for the life me why you would speak to somebody like that.

[1019] I just can't understand it.

[1020] And Ryan, Ryan is, Ryan's so polite, but you can tell he's, he's such a moral, upstanding guy.

[1021] Like, he's just this great guy with a mustache, you know, just stand there, like, just standing up for what's right.

[1022] And he kind of like, shame to all of us.

[1023] We were like, God, I guess we should have done that.

[1024] We're like, that's great.

[1025] I'm not good at that.

[1026] Because I, I, that guy, made me mad.

[1027] You know, the way he's, it's almost like he, um, it's almost like he's trying to sabotage his own restaurant it was a weirdest thing to have they'd be like I'm gonna go into your restaurant and buy the products you're selling yeah and you're gonna come start like quizzing me into things that I know are traps yeah you know basically like that we were like al -Qaeda well he was asking us how we felt about Obama because it was right before the elections he's like you're not you're not voting for Obama right yeah but then his his political his political analysis was this oh you're gonna be a about Obama you're gonna go and he started dancing around like I guess Obama's gay or it's some stereotypical like who's the weirdest interaction I was like you're a fucking weird I hate when anyone make like I hate when anyone makes um like when people come up just uninvited to like talk what's your political party or make a political insinuations I remember when we had our kid we had to get a pediatrician I remember going to a guy who like started making cracks like just assuming like kind of like that we're in the club like we're in the left wing club yeah like he just knew that we were like in left wing club like start making like cracks about like right wing people I remember walking out I'm like there's no way I'm going to take my kid to a pediatrician who when I walk in I want to talk about my child's health wants to get into it with me and like make assumptions about my politics yeah has nothing to do with the services I'm seeking and when I wanted to eat that guy's hamburger the last thing I wanted to hear was his like analysis of I think it was like the Benghazi thing yeah yeah yeah he said you even said he tried to talk to you guys I don't talk about politics but Joe I was messing with the guys like you guys got drunk I was like nah just a little blow and he's like who this morning And then Joe, Joe, finally Joe was like, hey, stop talking that guy.

[1028] You're encouraging him.

[1029] I can tell when you clam up.

[1030] I don't.

[1031] Yeah, I didn't like that guy.

[1032] It wasn't nice.

[1033] When you see a guy is not nice to his employees like that, I really don't want to talk to that, too.

[1034] But the upside is, the upside is that Ryan Kelly is a solid guy.

[1035] Yeah, he's solid as fuck.

[1036] That was a fun experience, man. To have our first hunting trip with you was a real treat, man. It was so much fucking fun.

[1037] We keep talking about it.

[1038] I love seeing it through.

[1039] I love seeing it through.

[1040] new people's eyes you know yeah that's got to be weird for you right i mean you've you spent your entire life essentially hunting you can't even remember the first time you killed anything right no i don't well i remember the first you know i remember the first deer i killed but as far as hunting small games as be around it you know what i never you know what i never had is uh not that i relish seen in other people i never had that like the shock of death the people you know what i mean right the people experience like kind of like the the shock of like how serious it is so someone grows up on a farm yeah and they see that all the time you don't have it you know yeah and i didn't grow up on i didn't grow up in agriculture but i grew up involved in hunting and it was around a lot of things and i never had that like that that that level of surprise and i think that when you when you take someone out um for the first time and my brothers have found the same thing like through wives or taking the girlfriends out or friends out that there is that there's a real reckoning that people have you know and um the funny thing is despite someone's response that usually people if you kill an animal for the first time and you're going to eat it, regardless what you're going to do with, you kill an animal for the first time.

[1041] It's not, I don't want to say it's humbling, but it like stops other thoughts.

[1042] You know, you're alone with that thought for a minute.

[1043] But the interesting thing is as much as I've seen that happen, I've never had anyone later come to regret, I haven't done it.

[1044] It's always in some way strengthening for people to go see that like that, that life and death thing.

[1045] ever call me back and said that was just a terrible mistake for you um intellectually intellectually knowing that this is a unique experience for most people how to you know how does that make you feel like when you see it through their eyes and the the idea to you being so alien it's it's exciting for me and um i think that i'm looking at i think that i already kind of in in a way i know what the what the experience is going to be for the person because I think in some ways we're talking about really base aspects of human nature you know and so I kind of can anticipate like if I take someone out on their first hunt and just kind of want to show them hunting first what I usually do you know because like I respect you guys and why you have a good time and respect your opinions on things so I'm like want to like take you on an experience that's going to be a good one you know that's going to be like an immersive kind of experience so I know that there's a certain thing that goes with that like just to kind of get away from stuff and be out in an area where you've diminished some of the noise and you're allowed to be in the moment.

[1046] It's just going to put you in a certain spot.

[1047] And I think that it's like to take someone out on the first hunt, I'm not worried about like a wild card scenario.

[1048] Because I've done it enough to where I've seen that it just doesn't happen.

[1049] It's like people go on a kind of predictable journey on a hunt.

[1050] You're talking about a wild card.

[1051] They would have some crazy response to it.

[1052] Oh, okay.

[1053] You know, that it would be like really unhinging for them or that it would put them into, that they would be so depressed or that they would be so guilt -ridden.

[1054] I've just never had it, you know, it's not like when I go into it.

[1055] I don't think, like, wow, who knows what's going to happen when this happens.

[1056] I'm generally like, you know what's going to happen is the person that have a very fulfilling experience, you know, and they're going to appreciate the challenge.

[1057] They might not ever go hunting again, but they'll always remember back on that and have come away and found out something about themselves.

[1058] And it's like, it's never been otherwise.

[1059] If I, if I, I would probably stop if I found that there was a high degree.

[1060] You know, there's a, there's a thing that happened to me, though, with, with my own wife is, is she didn't grow up around hunting, you know, and she eats a lot of wild game.

[1061] It has eaten a lot of wild game since, ever since she eats more wild game than 90 % of the hunters, I know.

[1062] But she just had her head.

[1063] She's like, I don't want to see an animal.

[1064] I don't need to see an animal get killed.

[1065] She's like, I'm fine with the hypocrisy.

[1066] If you want to call it hypocrisy, I'll eat wild game.

[1067] I'll eat meat.

[1068] I prefer to eat wild game over domestic meat.

[1069] I just don't want to see a deer get killed.

[1070] And one day, I invited her.

[1071] We were up at my cabin, and I invited her out on a deer hunt with us.

[1072] And my brother wanted to get a deer.

[1073] And we took our boat out and landed our skiff at this river mouth, and she was reluctant to go along because she was afraid of what she might see.

[1074] And I had encouraged her to come because I'm like, what's going to happen is you won't even know the deer's there.

[1075] We're going to spot a deer that's far away, probably obscured by brush.

[1076] you'd have to look for it really hard to see it anyways we're going to shoot it by the time we get over there it'll be dead and it's not really the experience you're imagining but we beached our skiff and started going up this gravel bar to stream bank and here comes three deer something scared them a bear I don't know what something scared them because they're running tortoise and they get so close that I'm not kidding you I'm looking at the eyelashes on this deer they're just there and I see that one of them's got spikes one of them was a buck and it was a buck only season and i see my brother we're kind of hunkered down by rock and i see him like raising his rifle up and i'm like you son of a bitch i was like do not shoot this deer right now let's get another one later and he you know piles that deer up and when my wife looked he shot it yeah you see piles that deer up like shot it at point blank how far away are we talking 10 feet you did that monitor oh my god just close you know what i mean and and and it turned and she turned and she thought that he had missed but you know fell over it was far I'm exaggerating it was far and that it was very close maybe that twice that distance so even twice that distance I remember seeing its eyelashes we're talking about like 30 feet and very very very close and um and when she looked at me after seeing that she was looking at me across a vast vast gulf of difference of distance it was like it was like she looked at me like she had never seen you or something known me yeah and i asked we had just we were we were just married we were married not even a year and it was the look she gave me i was like this could be the end of our relationship did she find it sexy no no no looked at me like like we were the barbarian yeah yeah well you just assassinated bambi so but you know what it was weird and we're sitting we got we drug the thing down she didn't think we drug it with enough ceremony she's like it's was banging on you know we gutted out drug it back through the skiff and started motoring back toward our shack and um and no one was saying a word in the boat at all but then within 45 minutes within 45 minutes it was enough time for her to process what she saw and her take home was you know what i guess i'd still rather eat that thing than you know an animal from a feedlot sure of course it was just like it just took her minute because right she was like and later I felt like she's like I feel like I should feel something different than I do I feel like I should feel outrage intellectually yeah but then once she sat in that bow and thought about it was just like it just passed yeah it passed she's like you know what I don't know things die it's so fascinating that you have this you have this you have this you know different point of you on death than you know so many people and for your wife to experience it like in its most shocking form on the the first past yeah i'm not sure it would take a little while to intellectualize i took away something interesting by butchering the deer and getting my hands in that deer and i kind of thought to myself i can see how i can certainly see how a hunter would have an easier time taking a human's life with a knife or whatever i wonder about that all the time i think because you have an intimate experience with that animal you know you um you're not as squeamish maybe you you yeah it is a strange feeling when you reach in there and you feel the guts for the first time the whole The whole experience was really fascinating.

[1077] But I passed out when my wife had an epidural when she's having our first baby.

[1078] Really?

[1079] Because I used to tell people, I'd be like, and I want to write it off as a needle thing.

[1080] I tell people I could cut your arm off, but I can't watch you get a shot.

[1081] Wow, that's so weird.

[1082] I don't know if it's a new thing, but I don't know that it translates.

[1083] I think people do it.

[1084] There's like an argument against hunting is that it like that it turns you into like you're so comfortable death and you're like an animal.

[1085] That should be the same argument in farming.

[1086] I don't know that it necessarily translates to being like comfortable.

[1087] no I don't think morally or no I mean that's the same argument then that someone who runs a chicken farm can be you know they kill chickens all day I just think that violence transforms you fundamentally for example like when you've done combat sports and you've gotten punched and knocked out or kicked in the head knocked out or or just put into a choke and you are different you are different about your own mortality your own relationships to other men do you know what I mean like when you've been when you've been taken to a man or you've had somebody do like whatever they want to you and you realize oh i'm very vulnerable you or you get knocked out and it really hurts or hitting the body and that i think fundamentally changes you um in in your relationship not just to other men how do you think this relates to hunting though what do you in the same way like when you when you have an intimate experience of harvesting your own meat which actually requires a really loud noise uh the killing of an animal and you see that blood and you feel that what just was alive and you're touching it, then you butcher it.

[1088] I feel like I approach, I don't know, man. I don't even know how to articulate how it changed me, but I do think that something that is that intimately violent is going to...

[1089] Why do you keep saying violence?

[1090] Because I don't see it as violence at all.

[1091] I think it's pretty abrupt in its ending.

[1092] I mean, there's a violent action.

[1093] started using it violence i used to not use it i started like coming to turn i i i i just want to like sanctify it you know i mean and and i'd be careful about this is a thing in the hunting world where people are very reluctant to use the word kill hmm there's euphemisms for kill really harvest yeah yeah the most like kind of like harvest or tape but i feel like i mean the obvious the gunshot is violent but the butchering and all that stuff didn't see violent yeah that's what i'm saying yeah violence is a wrong way to use for but i just mean the blood I like getting in there and feeling the temperature of the blood, smelling it, having it up to my arms.

[1094] Yeah, that's a...

[1095] I'm not trying to imply that shooting animals isn't violent.

[1096] I meant, you know...

[1097] No, yeah, the butcher got everything of that way.

[1098] But the whole experience, I didn't think of as a violent experience.

[1099] It was very surreal, very, you know, that's like a commonly used term, like the connection to nature.

[1100] It's one of those terms, I think, that's used so much that the meaning of it gets a little fuzzy, getting a little bullshitty, you know, oh, my connection to nature, Satnam, you know, but that is what it is.

[1101] When you're out there living in that animal's world, sleeping on the ground, just basically like they do, and then falling them around, then you shoot one, then you're pulling its heart and liver out.

[1102] That's a fucking connection to nature.

[1103] I also got a different respect for what a knife can do, which is weird, like you go, wow, man. They really do work.

[1104] Yeah, we talked about this.

[1105] You know, that's the thing that I found, like, being out with you on that on that trip and then that i that i thought of from having a hundred with tim ferris ones is people that have been like fighters like i'm not a fighter like i've been hit a couple times but i've never beat anybody up or anything well i beat up one guy in ninth grade but you know but you i think that you bring a level of calmness just to the act of shooting like being able to like get down and shoot some people are so um unable to control adrenaline and fear they become they can't shoot yeah I got a buddy who guides and he was saying that one time he took this guy up and they were hunting tar in New Zealand and the guy shot and my buddy's watching through his binoculars where the bullet hit and he showed me if someone was rolling a video when he did it and you hear my buddy say you you're 20 feet high 20 feet high 20 feet high that's that's hilarious I think a lot of it just is just the amount of time I've reversed he left his mind he left his mind when I was um when I would have been able to shoot that deer with the first time we saw him but I didn't have enough practice with that scope and I was too close to the scope and you know how you get that weird thing I couldn't find him in there it was like two it was almost like two black half moons, criss crossing over each other.

[1106] I couldn't, like, get the image to be clear.

[1107] That more than anything else is cause of beginner hunters not getting shots of things is the weird eye relief issues.

[1108] It becomes very second nature, but it's pretty precise, like, where you put it.

[1109] And when you're in a weird position and things are happening fast, it's tough, man. Yeah, for folks who don't know what we're saying, there's a scope on the top of the rifle.

[1110] And if you're too close to that scope, it distorts your view it fucks up you have to be just in the right spot and the first time we saw the deer i couldn't get it in the right spot and then um he went behind this little area and then came back out again and when he came back out again i was able to figure it out i pulled back a little bit i was like oh there it is but i was freaking out i was like i can't fucking see this thing and if i lose this fucking deer because of this i'll go crazy yeah yeah we had been stalking them for days that's a thing that comes into is Just, excuse me, just wanting to get it done.

[1111] I was desperate to it here.

[1112] It's like the motivation that comes out, man. There's a lot of things that, like, there's a lot of things that come out in hunting that I think are applicable to life and work and stuff.

[1113] But you get, like, when you went out there a couple days and you start getting accustomed to that, I think it's easy to go for a day and walk, we're like, oh, it didn't happen.

[1114] Right, right.

[1115] You get a couple days into something.

[1116] most people like what I would almost call like a work ethic or like something comes up where you're like you know we've committed ourselves of this we've put time in it we're out here and you just want to make it happen and it brings out like a level of drive that's what happened to me yeah and it feels so good to fulfill the goal man that moment becomes such a gigantic sweeping moment and that's why it's hard to like stay calm but it actually happens when you're building up with two days of fucking shitty camping and one with it's raining and pouring outside and cold every morning and we're going to bed at like eight because there's nothing to do it gets dark we all just go to bed and then we get up and like we were getting up like six the morning it was long days whatever we get and then just wandered around trying to find a deer yep and um but the what the one of the craziest visions was when we were on the top of one of those hills and you you look it around at the vastness of that area and man was that fucking humbling we were standing i remember i don't if you remember this we were on the top of One of the hills is one of the first times you spotted a sheep.

[1117] You were glass in the area, and you spotted a big sheep way the fuck away from us.

[1118] And when we're on top and we're looking around, you're just get, you're up looking over at the vastness of this thing.

[1119] Like, you could just start walking and starve to death.

[1120] And no one would ever find you.

[1121] I thought two things.

[1122] I thought about how cold it was all the time and starving to death and how you have no light.

[1123] You can keep that stone age shit.

[1124] You make that indigenous culture stuff.

[1125] I enjoyed it for five days.

[1126] I'll tell you that.

[1127] It is a humbling area, though, man. And it's one of those cool areas that really, and again, we're talking about the Missouri Brakes region.

[1128] It's one of those cool areas that really just kind of on its own resisted development.

[1129] There's some spots that were so stunning that early on people are like, this is like Yosemite, Yellowstone.

[1130] The momentum was always going toward hanging on to it.

[1131] You know, people wonder, like, this is special.

[1132] I mean, we got hot guys who are shooting up out of the ground.

[1133] We should early on, like, make sure to not screw this place up.

[1134] And there's some great areas in the U .S., like, I would argue, Hell's Canyon, the Missouri Brakes Reason, that just remained pure just through toughness and tenacity.

[1135] Like, everybody went in there and tried to do something.

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] And it's like one of those places where you're going, it's like, they try to do that.

[1138] It didn't work out.

[1139] like one of the things that that place is known for is that horse thieves used to just go there because they knew they could go hide out you know it was like useful to them just as a place to hide out and there were some campaigns where it was like we're going to go into the brakes we're going to find them all we're going to hang them from cottonwoods and they'd go down and root out the guys and it was like a spot that held wildlife for a long time you know it was a spot where some of the plains tribes could go down and hide out in there and the brake on the muscle shell that that goes into that area was one of the last place that had free -roaming herds of Buffalo and Montana.

[1140] It was just like a spot where people would try to get a grip and it just didn't hold.

[1141] And now it still isn't really, there's some protections there, but it's not like categorically protected like a place like Yellowstone is, but it just, after a while, people almost kind of threw their hands up in the air.

[1142] And interesting thing we were talking about is because...

[1143] Folks don't know what you're saying.

[1144] It's like the people trying to settle in that area couldn't, they couldn't live.

[1145] They couldn't run farms.

[1146] Couldn't grow stuff.

[1147] It couldn't grow stuff.

[1148] It's all people going.

[1149] And try to, yeah, people going and try to do homesteads.

[1150] They try to run sheep in there.

[1151] The government says that if you stay on this land for X amount of time comes yours.

[1152] Is that how it?

[1153] Yeah, you do improvements on it.

[1154] You do improvement.

[1155] So there was all these homestead sites where we were walking around and we'd find these really old logs that, you know, used to be a side of a house.

[1156] You see, like house or maybe sheep shacks or sidehouses, root cellars.

[1157] It's fucking weird.

[1158] If you went in and tried to till.

[1159] What's a root seller?

[1160] Oh, like a under, like a climate.

[1161] controlled area where you dig down into the ground and you'd have like a cool place to store things or it'd also be freeze -proof because you're down you know you go down the dirt ways and then you're still a lot of old structures there to have side you know you can see that it had a sod roof how far do you have to go to in the ground before it becomes freeze -proof well however far down the frost line is when you put in like you know people have a frost free riser in your yard where you got to most places like in michigan remember we'd only go to our frost free riser only went down 36 inches how fucked up is If you go deep in the ground, it stops being cold.

[1162] You go deep enough, it'll burn your ass.

[1163] Yeah, but isn't that, is that why it is?

[1164] You're getting past the surface and it's getting closer to the lava.

[1165] Yeah, so like in Alaska, what they do is they dig down into the permafrost and use that for refrigeration all year.

[1166] Oh, wow, that's interesting.

[1167] So is that, wow.

[1168] But guys used to, you read about guys on the prairie that used to, they would in the winter hunt and dig down into the ground where the ground was frozen.

[1169] They would in the winter hunt and fill that with animals.

[1170] fill it with quarters of meat and let that freeze in the winter and then pile canvas down or blankets down on top of that, put dirt back on so it'd freeze and they'd dig that up months into the summer and that meat still be good down there.

[1171] What?

[1172] So they would wrap the meat in canvas?

[1173] That's incredible.

[1174] They would let it get frozen.

[1175] They'd dig a big, deep pit, eight feet deep or whatever, and put meat in there and let it get frozen.

[1176] Wow.

[1177] And then pile dirt on and let all that freeze up and then it'd get warm out and you could dig down there later and get the meat out.

[1178] Who's the fucking genius who figured that out?

[1179] That's brilliant.

[1180] What about worms and stuff?

[1181] I guess not.

[1182] Dude, I've been watching.

[1183] If you do it in the winter, it's not getting fly larva.

[1184] I mean, if you let flies land on it and it was hot out on you buried, you'd have a mess on your hands.

[1185] But, you know, anybody knows if you dig a hole and put your hand on there.

[1186] It's cool down there.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] Wow.

[1189] I'm fascinated by these Alaska shows, all these different subsistence shows.

[1190] Have you seen any of those?

[1191] Crafty way to do it.

[1192] Yukon men and all these different shows, these people just live up there, and they've been living up there for generations.

[1193] Just, you know, trying to get by, killing rabbits and eating them.

[1194] Yeah, a good, good lot of craftiness, man. You got to be a carnivore straight up with that.

[1195] Oh, 100%.

[1196] I mean, they grow some vegetables in the four months that they have to do so.

[1197] They have like a greenhouse and shit, but most of their food, they're getting from, you know, shooting animals.

[1198] What are the Native Americans, I know it varies in the country, but where do they get their vitamin C and their micronutrients?

[1199] Fresh meat, man. GNC.

[1200] You don't get scurvy eating fresh meat.

[1201] There's this amazing story.

[1202] Yeah, there's this amazing story about, yeah, there's this guy.

[1203] The blood, the blood in it.

[1204] Yeah, dry meat loses it.

[1205] So even when you put in, when you put fruit in it, if you're making fruit jerky, you put bananas in a dehydrate or something, fruit loses vitamin C through dehydration.

[1206] There's some loss of it.

[1207] This is an amazing story about the French.

[1208] When the French started going, coming over here to engage in the fur trade and do all they're exploring and they were centered around like a focal point of the St. Lawrence Cway.

[1209] Champlain, the guy that's now the father of New France, he had this idea where he was going to take orphans from, Paris and bring them over and give them to the Indians thinking that the kids already knew French he'd give them to the Indians they'd go take them off for a couple years come back and they'd be bilingual and he'd be able to use these as emissaries like ambassadors and trade and one of the first ones that we know about that he tried us was this kid who's later we now people call him etienne brule gave them to the Indians and the first winter when they came when Champlain and his people came over they died like Mattianne.

[1210] had a scurvy all winter.

[1211] But this kid was supposed to go hang out with any of them.

[1212] So they would go out and fish through the ice and hunt.

[1213] And they were eating a meat diet.

[1214] But they had, I don't know, 24 fatalities that year.

[1215] The vast majority of the people all died.

[1216] The kid never died.

[1217] And everybody else was a hold up in their cabins eating like hard tack and salt pork and stuff.

[1218] And this kid that was out roaming around eating fresh, killed meat, survived.

[1219] And then later went on to do all these amazing, made all these discovery.

[1220] He was the first person to Sea Lake Superior, first person all that.

[1221] over to Great Lakes went down all the way down the Susquehanna river might have been the first white guy to ever lay eyes yeah no it's it is just uh Joey Diaz there was apparently something in the Laurel and Hardy called the Susquehanna Hat Company and the Susquehanna hat company like they had shitty hats and they put the hats on the top would pop off like this is really old stuff and Joey Diaz once went on this crazy rant for like 10 minutes about how our weed was Susquehanna weed this fucking Susquehannaweed and I didn't know what he meant I thought he was talking about Hannah Montana so I was totally confused I was like what the fuck are you saying it's still funny by the way it's fucking Susquehanna weed you got you feeding me over here but anyways they eventually ate this kid they ate them the year quiet dude yeah that was common that was another they ate them on Georgian Bay man you told me that a lot of the tribes of the Great Lakes like cannibalism it was fairly common out there yeah man they'd quarter people out wait a minute so what was it what tribes were we're doing that well the iroquois ate brulee wow you know that said that see he won't up going he won't of going totally feral he went totally native and then the french even you know the french even disowned him you know because he he they complained he'd come back for the trading season with the indians and they complained that he that he uh his morality had conformed to the tribes like you're going to turn a 13 year old over to some to an indigenous culture and go away for a couple years and he's going to come back still acting like a French Catholic It's kind of ludicrous Yeah, they were like really upset that he came back And he was very promiscuous and in his hair He changed his hair and more native dress Sounds modern Yeah, so he integrated And eventually he got into a Legend has it I don't know how much they really know about what happened Legend has he got in a dispute over a woman Up on Georgian Bay On Lake Huron And they cooked them and ate them Jesus Christ And they would boil them So what these guys would do In this area like a lot of these tribes are in the Great Lakes area.

[1222] They would, sometimes they would just carry captives in the boat live and then butcher them when you wanted to eat them.

[1223] Or they would raid an area and butcher everyone and just stack the corridors in the bowl.

[1224] So there's accounts of people talking about human legs stacked up in boats just as traveling food.

[1225] Brutely.

[1226] Oh, my.

[1227] And then all that stuff you're talking about, like, making people eat parts of themselves and, you know, like cutting off their fingers and making them eat your finger.

[1228] You know, like having a big sport out of it.

[1229] Just, just like stuff that's incomprehensible now, man. But people argue, you know, anthropologists argue that all that had, that all that violence had some societal function and, you know, I don't know.

[1230] The societal function of cattle is some.

[1231] Stacking legs in a boat for travel food.

[1232] Holy shit.

[1233] Yeah, we were in New Zealand filming in New Zealand.

[1234] We went and looked at this island and this big lake.

[1235] and what they say is that the indigenous people in New Zealand in the South Island, who hadn't even been there that long, but they had been there.

[1236] They had some people had come from the North Island and conquered the people in the South Island and would keep stocks of them out on this island and when they were and staked out, and when they wanted one, they'd paddle out and get them and eat them.

[1237] Jesus Christ.

[1238] It's like the road, man. It's like Cormant McCarthy's the road, you know.

[1239] But it's kind of fascinating that I got through the road.

[1240] I watched the movie until he was showing the kid out of shoot himself with the mouth, and I went, nope, no, thank you.

[1241] I don't need this fucking visual in my brain.

[1242] But the idea that this was happening on like a really regular basis is really not, a lot of people don't know that.

[1243] That's not in the folklore of the Native American.

[1244] It's never discussed.

[1245] It's always, they were in one with nature and how, and they were, peaceful to the white band.

[1246] They were human.

[1247] They were human, that's what they were.

[1248] I know it's so hard to come to grips to what happened to the indigenous peoples here.

[1249] It's so hard to come to grips to it that people wind up going in wild directions.

[1250] It's like that it was just brutal savagery, you know, and it was this awful existence, or that it was just this like peaceful, harmonious existence.

[1251] It's like really it's really hard to just be like, you know what?

[1252] There were complex and varied cultures that lived here.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] That had...

[1255] That were human.

[1256] All too human.

[1257] But warts and all, right?

[1258] Well, the Sue, you know, the idea, the word Sue means Indian, and Indian means enemy.

[1259] They call themselves the Lakota people.

[1260] The word Sue apparently was what the other Indians called them.

[1261] Wow.

[1262] Yeah, there's a similar thing with Eskimo is a derogatory term.

[1263] The Athabascan people would refer to the coastal people as, you know, eaters of raw fish or whatever, and it became like a derogatory term that stuck.

[1264] It's really crazy when you stop and think about the idea that up until whatever, it was 14 ,000 years ago, the first people, when did the Vikings get here?

[1265] You mean the first Europeans?

[1266] Who do they think of the first?

[1267] No, who did they think of the first travelers?

[1268] 14 ,000 years ago was the first humans here in North America.

[1269] 14 ,000?

[1270] Was first humans, you know.

[1271] Just think about these people that lived like no one else in a big continent anywhere in the world.

[1272] They traveled the entire thing.

[1273] And they had all these little tribes and they were hunting and they were all living this crazy sort of hunting, gathering, lifestyle like an entire continent filled with people doing it it's really fascinating by the way according to a lot of scholars they believe that there were 20 plus million a native americans on the the thing that gets me is the buffalo you know when you uh the episode that you um shot wild buffalo in uh mexico that was a fascinating episode and it made me really stop and think about what it when you were describing the imagery of what it used to look like seeing buffalo's roaming across the country there would be like giant like the shadows from giant clouds just like the entire land would be covered in Buffalo and this is how it was for these fucking people that lived here for what 10 ,000 years or something from whenever the water the the ice thawed and became the great lakes they experienced an apocalypse of sorts yeah I mean it's like it was a fucking avatar it's the it's the avatar movie I mean it really is it's crazy shit if you really stop and think about the fact that the entire continent have all these people living this what we think of is like a very romantic life you know camping with leather tpees and shit and out there making fire and dancing and like it's pretty nuts the rest of the country shooting cannonballs off of boats and you know what i mean they're they're fucking they're developing eyeglasses and you know navigating the seas and giant hemp sails and you know medicine and these fucking people are riding around oh yo yeah weren't even riding on horses it's like they weren't even until the spaniards came right it's funny that so many like so many guys that hunt um become interested in in like early cultures yeah i mean just necessary it's just it's obvious that you if you like to hunt animals you become interested in hunter -gather societies you know but just to look at it not from that just from like how great the hunting must have been but look at it from other aspects just like to live like the with the plains indians the proximity to death is you cannot, unless you live in the most war -torn region of the world today, you probably can't fathom the proximity to death that you lived around.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] That you could, it's so weird now, like, our culture is so easy and so soft.

[1276] I always meet people who are in their 30s and 40s, and they'll be like, I've never seen a dead person.

[1277] Like, you can go through life and not lay eyes on a dead person.

[1278] I didn't see a dead person, I think, like, real close up until my grandfather died.

[1279] and then he was uh they they embalmed him so it didn't even seem real at all they had makeup on him it's weird it's really strange i didn't recognize my grandfather oh it's in they're hard deaf as a rock and then they just seem like these weird empty vessels well because what they what they do is what don't they suck you dry i mean yeah they drain you and then they they use formaldehyde i guess and do balming fluid or whatever i mean they do don't they do it like with like an ivy drip or some shit like that?

[1280] Yeah, I don't know how they get in the lavains with the formaldehyde I think I want to be cremated.

[1281] Yeah, it's fucking gross.

[1282] I want to be digital in the woods, man. That's what I'd like the most.

[1283] Have you ever seen the Tibetan sky burial?

[1284] No, no. That's crazy.

[1285] I like the sound of it is.

[1286] Jamie, put up, pull up some images of Tibetan sky burial.

[1287] What they do is they take a body and they quarter it, they chop it up, they smash the bones down, and then they leave it out there for the vultures.

[1288] The vultures come in there and and essentially pick everything clean.

[1289] If my, like, I could trust my brothers to do it.

[1290] Like, I just trust them implicitly.

[1291] Right.

[1292] But they'll be old.

[1293] They're older than me, so they'd be too old.

[1294] But I'd be like, if I knew someone I could really trust.

[1295] And I said, when I die, I want you just to take my body out to, like, an area of a lot of bears and stuff, and just chop it up real good and just stir it into the ground.

[1296] Just, you know, and, like, that way.

[1297] Even though I'd be dead and wouldn't even know what actually happened, it would just be nice to have it be that as I was dying, to be like, that that that will happen to be.

[1298] Would you even want to be chopped up because, you know, I don't want people stumble across my remains of call 9 -1 -1.

[1299] Oh, yeah.

[1300] If they just leave you out there, it's like someone's going to then find you, then they're going to go out there and there just be a big investigation.

[1301] The question about finding animals, about finding dead mountain lions and finding bears, is that because when they know they're going to die, they go somewhere and squirrelly and, like, tuck away where no one's going to find them?

[1302] Is that it?

[1303] Or is it that's...

[1304] You see them when you get a bad hit on an animal.

[1305] You get a bad hit on an animal And if he go If you get a hit on an animal with a bow Or you know Firearm And he lives beyond that initial Rush They're usually going to die tucked away somewhere They're going to the thick stuff Yeah You know under like You'll find stuff tucked up under junipers I was just This year After we went out I was hunting deer in Montana And found where A really Beautiful big buck I just happened to stumble into it, but he had obviously, I feel like he'd been hit because he had a perforated antler.

[1306] Someone had shot at him, I might take home.

[1307] Someone had shot at him and hit that antler with a bullet because he had a big bullet -type wound on his antler, like a wood, bullet -hitting wood, but it had cracked his skull plate.

[1308] So it didn't kill him immediately.

[1309] But he was so tucked up under this juniper bush.

[1310] He just laid up under there to hide like he knew he was vulnerable just died up there and I think it happens all the time man you know it seems to make sense especially hunting because they don't want to get hit by a predator they know they're down you know but what about what like predators die like bears or big cats I found you know I found bear I found bear skulls and I can't I don't I never found a like a fresh dead enough bear to really tell like what its positioning wasn't those dead but I found a number of like remains of bears but never where I knew that it like this is its spot it had gone to but like I said when you get it if you get it hit on something with a bow and you don't kill the meat like you may be hitting the liver hit it somewhere where it's going to live a little while when you find it you'll generally find it where it didn't die on the run it laid down and died and when they lay down they're usually pretty careful to get tucked away somewhere it can be tough to find stuff when an animal like this dies this deer dies if it left his body behind would eventually something to eat the bones of the head as well you know what you wind up with you wind up with you wind up with this right here oftentimes.

[1311] The base?

[1312] Yep.

[1313] This is real thick.

[1314] So they can't shoot through that.

[1315] We want to time, I remember one of them.

[1316] So for the folks at home that are listening, we're talking about the base of a deer skull, so I guess the base is the hard spot.

[1317] Yeah, around that frame.

[1318] You see that more than anything else.

[1319] You see like, can I get this where you can see?

[1320] Yeah, the problem is most people are listening and they're not watching.

[1321] Oh, they're not seeing it.

[1322] Oh, I'm sorry.

[1323] Most people are getting this off of iTunes.

[1324] or listening to it on Sirius.

[1325] So the part you find most often when you see like a kill that's been consumed is you find where the spinal cord enters the skull, that thick bone area right there extending up into around the base of the antlers, around a non -antlered game, around horned game, extending up to what would be kind of the space up between the ears.

[1326] It's just sick and doesn't get consumed.

[1327] But one time I remember we killed, my brother and I killed a cow elk.

[1328] This is in Montana, southwest Montana, an area with a lot of grizzlies.

[1329] We killed a cow elk and went back a week later to see what had happened, and grizzlies had been on it.

[1330] They had eaten the hide.

[1331] Whoa.

[1332] They had eaten all the bones.

[1333] The only part we could find was just a disc of bone with the center of the remaining piece of bone was where the spinal cord passes into the skull, that heavy bone area, the frame and the magnetom, I think it was a word.

[1334] and a donut -sized chunk of bone like that.

[1335] And you could tell that it didn't just go away, that it wasn't like it drugged somewhere where we couldn't find it, because you could account for all that hide and all that bone in the shit that was left there.

[1336] It was all there.

[1337] It was like a sound of cubs or something that got on it, and it was all still there.

[1338] That trip, we went and killed another elk and packed that elk out, and when we went back up there later on, the same thing happened to that one.

[1339] Isn't it true that Grizzlies tend to prefer meat that's kind of rotten, too?

[1340] Yeah, as people say, like, when they kill something, when people watch a bear, Black Bear, Old Grizzly, make a kill, they'll eat that soft tissue first.

[1341] So they rip its belly open, lungs, heart, liver.

[1342] And generally, it's like, what they'll do is when they cover it with grass, like some people even say that somehow, when they cover it with a little bit of dirt or covering grass, AIDS decomposition, and they'll lay around on it, they defecate on it, you know, all the things that, and they'll eat it as it goes back.

[1343] So they don't, yeah, they don't generally, it's said that they don't generally kill it and immediately start eating red meat.

[1344] A lion's different, like lions don't like all that rotten meat.

[1345] Lions like fresh stuff.

[1346] But the bears like, bears like pretty, they like pretty rotten stuff, man. I remember one time being, again, we're, I can't remember what we were doing.

[1347] We were hunting for something or another.

[1348] And on Prince Wales Island at the shack we own, I remember watching wolves.

[1349] You think of wolves like eating fresh meat.

[1350] I mean, you know, a wolf throughout the year, it takes seven pounds of meat a day to keep that thing a lot.

[1351] But we sat there watching, we sat there watching four wolves eating salmon.

[1352] This is after the spawning room.

[1353] This is in the fall.

[1354] And they're eating salmon that are so rotten that they're in a pudding -like consistency, a pudding -like state.

[1355] And just putrid, like I can't even imagine.

[1356] Imagine.

[1357] Like, Putrid, like, it would take, if you walk through one of these areas, one of these stream miles or all these salmon were laying dead, I have a strong stomach.

[1358] I would need an hour or two before I could eat.

[1359] Really?

[1360] It was just overpowering.

[1361] And watching these wolves basically lapping up.

[1362] That's salmon soup.

[1363] Putting, like, salmon rot into a pudding like consistency.

[1364] You're like, I can try to be an animal.

[1365] I can like try to think like an animal, be an animal, become animalistic.

[1366] not like that you need you need serious enzymes in your stomach and mouth to be able to handle that and not get sick too yeah they're like the clean -up crew yeah the bears like the cleanup crew yeah they say they can eat your bones like that yeah they didn't know they just eat everything swallow it like hyenas you know there's like a there's a relationship that uh there's relationship in africa between like cheetahs and hyenas where cheetahs will make a kill, they can't crush the bone.

[1367] And hyenas can go in and they can just hang out and wait because they know that when that's done they'll be the first in there, and they can crush bone.

[1368] And I remember, I don't know if this theory is in fashion anymore, but it used to be in fashion, that early hominids, like early humans, seem to appear in the fossil record outside of Africa at a time that was contemporaneous with the appearance of saber -toothed cats the thinking being that these saber -tooth cats weren't able to crush bone because of the makeup of their dental structure or teeth.

[1369] They couldn't crush bone and they were really effective predators and people had become accustomed to following saber -tooth cats to scavenge bone marrow and things that they left behind.

[1370] I read this long ago.

[1371] I don't know if that's been debones by other fines.

[1372] No, they're leaving kills out there.

[1373] And if you're like Like, if you're, we always hear the term apex predator, there's a lot of benefits to being the apex scavenger.

[1374] Yeah.

[1375] Which is after the, the top dog does what he's going to do, who gets to be there first?

[1376] Right.

[1377] How much can they eat of an elk?

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] So like, if wolves kill a, if wolves kill an elk and get what they want off it, there's a big benefit to whoever comes along behind it.

[1380] Because you get to, you get to stroll up.

[1381] Yeah, and it's the little guys that come later, you know what I mean?

[1382] Jackals.

[1383] Yeah, it's the little guys to come later.

[1384] but first there's like a coyote hanging there and he's like when he's done i'm in there man and then you guys get in line behind me you know it's fascinating that there's a balance to that system that the wolves want the fresh meat but the bears want the rotten meat and you know it's it's really interesting it's it's amazing how the system is so covered it's got all the bases covered the uh the area where we were the brakes the missouri river was like the most hostile place for life i think uh i've ever been to in this country wickedly cold wickedly hot And not much to eat.

[1385] Not much there.

[1386] No, it's like people that, it was a place for, it was a place for carnivores, man. You know, I mean, there's some edible wild plants, but people in there would go in there and, in his, in historically, I mean, like, you know, Lewis and Clark went through there.

[1387] And generally, people traveling through there would have fantastic luck with hunting.

[1388] You know, it doesn't look like it.

[1389] It's still, it's still got a lot of animals today.

[1390] But something about that river, it was just, there's just a game down there, you know.

[1391] Things went through there.

[1392] There's not a lot of water in that area, so it's a reliable place to find water.

[1393] It's good.

[1394] It's a great place for hunting.

[1395] And in other things, a lot of agricultural practices and stuff, not so great.

[1396] But it's always been a hunter, you know, a place for hunter -gatherers.

[1397] You clued me into what it used to be, that it used to be a gigantic ocean.

[1398] And that is really crazy.

[1399] I'd heard of them finding fossilized ancient teeth of different fish.

[1400] And I think one of them was.

[1401] You saw the clamshells we were finding.

[1402] I was convinced it was a mining operation.

[1403] When we got there.

[1404] I was dead serious.

[1405] I was kind of dead serious.

[1406] See those hills that's from mining?

[1407] Oh, no, man. It's a river here.

[1408] The reason.

[1409] The expert over here.

[1410] The mining expert, Brian Callan.

[1411] That's a classic example of me when I get a little excited.

[1412] I'm like, I know everything.

[1413] Those are track marks.

[1414] But it is interesting.

[1415] They call it the brakes because it was that you're on the bench of the Great Plains, and the Missouri brakes is where the landscape, seems to break and crumble away down into the canyon of the Missouri River and it's just what he says is like deeply incised yeah there you go yeah it was a fascinating place man the folks don't if you don't see this there's these gray hills and it's basically these gigantic mountains of silt and what's really weird is there's like patches of timber and stuff inside of them but as you're climbing it like especially after it's rained it's all mud.

[1416] Off clay.

[1417] Yeah, it's this weird, heavy clay stuff.

[1418] They call it it.

[1419] It's an expandable clay.

[1420] It gets wet and swells, you know.

[1421] And it does seem, you'd look at it, like, you'd look at the brakes from the water, and it feels like, you use the term loosely, but it feels like you're in the mountains.

[1422] It's mountainous.

[1423] But it's almost like the opposite of mountains.

[1424] It's like, you know, mountains would be something that rolls up, like geologic pressures are pushed up.

[1425] But the brakes is the absence of, it's like the absence of topsoil.

[1426] Yeah.

[1427] Something was like washed away.

[1428] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1429] canyon like the grand canons a very rugged place but it's just because you not that you added stuff you took stuff well it was easy it was easy to climb that stuff like i got you i'd look back at how much ground me and ryan covered it was like a lot like you'd be like it doesn't seem like climb on the top of that mountain whatever it was in front of you and you could because you could get a foothold yes it's nice that way yeah it's wet and it's hell man but but one of the things that i just realized is that how difficult it is to actually keep warm unless you're moving but when you stop moving, you know, and you're outside, it kicks your ass.

[1430] I mean, did you spend a lot of time cold or you seem like you're...

[1431] Yeah, no, no, I get cold.

[1432] And it's a, that's a thing, like, that's just a basic survival element that it's like when you're out and conditions are poor, you know, and you have, you know, especially cold with some humidity, like it was overcast, it was a little bit wet feeling, even though it's a very arid, dry area, it was a little bit, there's a lot of humidity on our trip.

[1433] it's just like the only time you're comfortable is and you're out and moving but it's a little bit paradoxical because when you get cold and uncomfortable your inclination is to huddle into yourself you know and so it's like harder to get out of your bag in the morning you're kind of like paralyzed by the cold and paralyzed by the like how uncomfortable you are but you notice that the minute you start hiking up a hill yeah you feel great and you could be out there all day and you're having a good time and you stop and you feel like hell and when you feel like hell it gets it's like hard to get motivated to do it again.

[1434] And I think that something that comes to spend a lot of time uncomfortable is just that you get in your head that you just got to move.

[1435] And I think that when it's, when I've hunted in really cold weather, you try not to do anything sitting.

[1436] You get up in the morning and you go immediately from your sleeping bag to be moving.

[1437] And when it's time to eat, you to stop for a minute and eat while moving.

[1438] You would never like stop for me all time.

[1439] Yes.

[1440] Because like you've got to be on the move, man. So that's the only way you're going to be able to deal with that cold.

[1441] And you feel great.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] One of the things that we talk.

[1444] about when we did this trip was that I was never like tired during the day or I wanted to take a nap or something it's like a very different energy the the the idea of getting up in the morning and just hiking around all day but yet all the time completely alert all the time completely like we were wide awake whereas like you know if you're you have a regular job or whatever you do after five or six hours you're like oh get me the fuck out of here you start yawning and stretching I didn't ever feel like I needed to take a nap and we got to this really weird regular cycle where we were going to bed at like 8 o 'clock and I would go right to sleep and I would wake up early in the I mean it was like it was like this weird sort of natural cycle that you're selling to it was also the first time we'd ever been living by natural light not only natural light but we we weren't around any of our beeping gadgets nothing I wonder if that has something to do that oh fuck yeah it does I think it's a huge part man I think you find something um I mean just think about just in a sense like how much we were just like our physical beings were shaped by that lifestyle you know of operating according to daylight hours you know being out in search of food i don't mean to get you know i don't mean to get like you know new age yeah yeah i don't mean to get all like nostalgia new age you those are good words for it but when you're out doing that kind of thing you're out like hunting on the land using your senses looking for food you you start making sense to yourself you know i think it's so you you can be like it's safe to say that there's something about me that really thrives on this you know it's like there's something about me that just likes this kind of and you think i think most people find it you know a primal thing that's just ingrained in our system that from the hunter -gatherer days of war it's like all a part of us i think there's like there's like man i mean just think about what we know about just like you know selective pressures there's an enormous amount of selective pressure on being able to do that kind of stuff i think that now people would argue that the new life we have now in technology we're under new kinds of selective pressures.

[1445] You know, there's probably right now those of us who are going to thrive, you know, those of us are going to thrive are adapted to a technological society.

[1446] But now it's not tied in now to birth.

[1447] You know, it used to be that we had such low life expectancies and high mortality rates that those are the people that could thrive, that really good hunters were the ones that were having, they had access to females they had young.

[1448] Now, you know, it's kind of a given that you're going to have reproductive possibilities.

[1449] You can be the biggest loser in the world and not do anything, and you can still get people pregnant and have kids.

[1450] So I think that selective pressures don't work on us now like they used to, but for a long time we were shaped by, you know, you had to be a productive member of your culture.

[1451] You had to be a productive member of your clan in order to have the kind of cash aid it was necessary to be able to breed women.

[1452] When I lived in Massachusetts was my fishing phase, I went a phase of my childhood where I go fishing every day It was a member of the Bass Angler Sportsman Society The whole deal of I spent all my free time fishing For like a couple of years Loved it And it was some fucking visceral thrill I think Hooking one of my first fishes We know what fishes I said fishes Fish fish I know what it is stupid Fishies But the That visceral thrill Whatever it was It was so shocking to me You know that to this day Like I'll look back.

[1453] I'm thinking that.

[1454] I'm like, that's got to be some ancient DNA shit.

[1455] Like, you got the fish.

[1456] It was like, it's like gambling.

[1457] Like, you don't know what's going to come around the next corner.

[1458] When I saw my first buck, I think it was a third day.

[1459] I got so excited.

[1460] From where I looked at, it looked like it was a world record buck.

[1461] It was a 50 point buck.

[1462] Literally, I went, I was at, there's a buck, there's a buck.

[1463] And I had that, I had that thing in my, my scope.

[1464] And it was, my scope was moving around so much because I got so heated and adrenaline up that I had buck fever.

[1465] I could not shoot that deer.

[1466] Oh really?

[1467] No, I was like and Ryan had to grab that he was like, you're going to injure a dunk because I was going to start squeezing rounds off blindly, which is wrong.

[1468] But I was so excited, you know, and then you get addicted to that.

[1469] Not only, the other thing you get addicted to is that when you look, when you glass, when you take your binoculars and you're looking out, looking for like an antler or an ear or anything.

[1470] Glass.

[1471] You start looking at things more intensely and differently.

[1472] Like you have almost new eyes.

[1473] Like you're looking at things, you know, the way you don't usually look at things.

[1474] Oh, absolutely, man. You're paying attention to everything.

[1475] And I think that keys you in.

[1476] It keys you in.

[1477] You just, you start forgetting about yourself.

[1478] That's kind of refreshing.

[1479] Yeah, you see stuff like to look, to look out, to be on the look for game.

[1480] Like, you're out there ostensible, you're looking for deer.

[1481] But everything starts to pop to you.

[1482] Because you're paying attention to things.

[1483] And also another thing I think about all the time, like in a place like the brakes, because the landscape might seem to some people redundant.

[1484] you know it's like a lot of the same thing it's just like row upon roll upon of a hill that looks this way and sandstone bluffs and it's like everything like looks the same but what you're looking for through all that is just like little subtle differences and I think it's like the lack of activity at sometimes helps you hone in and look at things much more carefully I think it'd be that if you if you ever notice if you walk into a really crowded shopping center walking you're like you're going on like walk through Times Square or something you get to the other And he sometimes realized you didn't ever actually really look at anything.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] Because you were just a blur.

[1487] It was like it was so much.

[1488] You came away with impressions, like a sense of noise, a sense of what you saw, like snippets.

[1489] But there's nothing that you ever like detailed in on it.

[1490] And when you're in those places and I would argue that like the Arctic is a little bit this way, I think, you know, areas of Montana this way.

[1491] It's just like a place that people might look at and be like, oh, it's just nothing.

[1492] It's just grass.

[1493] Right.

[1494] You know.

[1495] But when there's a deer out.

[1496] on that.

[1497] You can focus in on that thing and experience that thing in a way that you just don't get to do.

[1498] To an alien, the difference between a human life living and walking through a mall, that experience, and the human out there on the brakes and the Missouri breaks, like, you want to talk about two completely different.

[1499] Well, yeah, Juan Enrique says that he thinks that part of maybe the epidemic of people who have hypervigilant central nervous systems and are become weirdly autistic, might be that we're evolved because human beings today experience more stimulus in one day than they did in a lifetime?

[1500] It can only make sense.

[1501] I agree that.

[1502] I mean, how else could you process the information that just comes from a television?

[1503] What are you designed to really see?

[1504] Right.

[1505] You're not really designed to sit in front of a fucking television and take in the Lord of the Rings.

[1506] You know, you're not really designed for that.

[1507] That's all, all these signals that are firing off your reward systems and getting your dopamine level.

[1508] and your adrenaline levels up and you're getting engaged in the action that's a crazy thing it's like it's almost like it's a step away from a simulated reality but it's really moving in that direction that you get these gigantic thrill rushes from a giant television it's weird weird stuff when you stop and think about the impact that it has on the way we visualize our world right because so many people visualize their world as if it's some sort of like a plot in a movie they see the whole thing like a plot in a movie.

[1509] Do we talk about the Unabomber's Manifesto?

[1510] Yeah, yeah, we did.

[1511] There's like some interesting elements to that.

[1512] I remember I took this class, I took this class in college called the, I think it was just called Political Rhetoric.

[1513] We read various pieces, everything from Martin Luther King to the Unabomber.

[1514] And the Newbomber had this point that I was, you know, messed up as the guy was, he had this point that I was resonated with me where he talked about that, that, he looked at like levels of difficulty.

[1515] And there'd be, I can't remember what way it went if it went up or down, but let's just say as level one difficulty was, like, no matter how hard you try, you'll fail.

[1516] Okay, that's like absolute difficult.

[1517] There'd be level two is like, if you try super, super hard, you have a slight chance of success.

[1518] On down to, if you don't try it all, you'll still succeed.

[1519] Okay, it would be like these five levels of difficulty.

[1520] He's like, his gripe with technology was that technology had brought human existence to the level five.

[1521] It's like, you didn't even have to try to succeed.

[1522] You're just going to be alive now.

[1523] Like I said, you're going to be alive, you'll reproduce.

[1524] You don't need to do anything.

[1525] It's just, you're just taking care of.

[1526] We've got food surpluses, you know, social safety nets, everything, you know.

[1527] And he argued that all of our, like, all of our, as neurotic as he was, he argued that all of our neuroses came from, that all that energy we were supposed to be spending to maybe survive, you know, was just now spent running a muck in our brain.

[1528] Totally.

[1529] And we couldn't handle the free, we can't handle the free time.

[1530] The technology allows us.

[1531] And that's why he advocated for, like, this...

[1532] Human beings definitely...

[1533] You know, this reactionary existence where you'd go back to, like, this, you know, an agrarian...

[1534] Well, I...

[1535] Or just try to get your black -boned jiu -jitsu.

[1536] Yes, bingo, that's what I'm talking about.

[1537] I think you can avoid it.

[1538] Yeah, like, you can avoid it.

[1539] Yes, yes.

[1540] You need tasks.

[1541] You need things to do.

[1542] I'm most happy when I'm going like this.

[1543] That's what I'm most happy when I'm going.

[1544] I'm with you.

[1545] If I'm not involved in something, if something's not stimulating, me if something's not you know whether it's training doing something different trying something the hunting experience was a perfect example of that like the ability to to go and do the the show and what you know you guys brought to the table was so much better than anything we could have ever come up with on our own I mean the idea that you were gonna take us in this fucking five -day camping thing with no cell phones and no internet connection and you know that's completely different than anything we would have ever done we just said, all right, let's go hunting.

[1546] What do you want to do?

[1547] We would have to hire somebody.

[1548] We would have bailed.

[1549] Yeah, if we had both caught a deer, we'd be like, oh, time to go home.

[1550] Yeah, it's raining.

[1551] Dude, this sucks.

[1552] Let's go eat.

[1553] Let's go get some steak.

[1554] I'm so glad we didn't.

[1555] I'm so glad looking back on it.

[1556] It took five days.

[1557] The first day we get there, poor in rain.

[1558] I knew it was fucking for real.

[1559] When we stopped at one of the spots where Lewis and Clark camped, you know, that, you know, if you have any sense of history at all and you sort of trying to take this in, like how bizarre it is that several hundred years ago before the inventions of radio and the camera there were some fucking people that were traveling across the entire river they were going down the missouri river they were traveling across the whole country and they were right there camping where you're going to camp and it's still like there's some notable things that are different but it still is kind like kind of the same very reminiscent of it and there's a friend there's a writer i've always admired a lot that the writer ian fraser and and he he's written a lot about the american and west and we were on that river one time and he was just saying like he just likes it that it happened you know like there's a place like lewis and clark came here and camped here and he's like and then nothing ever really happened ever again you know and when i think about that i often like point out you can go to sites that you can go to places yeah i was at this i was one time i was funny because i was on the phone with you and brazier one time i was telling him he said where are you and i was in new york we were trying to meet up and i explained him that i was out in front of this bar like the white horse or something He's like, you know, Dylan Thomas drank himself to death and died, right?

[1560] He's like, what corner are you on?

[1561] I said, well, I'm at this and such.

[1562] I've been in that booth.

[1563] Yeah, he's like, yeah, Dylan Thomas, like, collapsed, like, drank himself to death there.

[1564] And I'm wondering, and he wants, it's like, wow, that's amazing.

[1565] But then you think, like, all the other stuff that happen, you know, people getting hit by cars and, like, you know, people getting broken up with and falling in love and, like, all these layers upon layers of other activities that went on there, in some way dilutes it.

[1566] You know, it becomes hard to picture.

[1567] but the camp where Lewis and Clark camped and look out and you go like no I get it man yeah right it's not abstract for me like I under and we were kind of even though we had even though we had stoves and stuff you're still kind of living and feeling what he they were feeling cold the boat in the morning Ryan Callahan just texted me heard us talking about him no he didn't get a chance to listen to the podcast yet I'm sure it was great good man yeah that's funny so um but that was uh but it's very similar getting the boat make some cover some ground in the boat get out pitch camp try to secure meat through hunting yeah get back in the boat pitch camp you know yeah all and all we went what was it 40 something miles down the river it was 38 or no more we went a long way because i remember that that that trip back me and towback i was so cold i and dan dody was really cold i go what's wrong with he goes i'm really cold i pulled a sleeping bag out of my and we just wrapped up because it was like 12 degrees that was kind of I was watching that.

[1568] It was so cold.

[1569] It was 12 degrees, and I was such a baby.

[1570] I'm like, you know what?

[1571] I got lucky.

[1572] I was with him, and he told me American Indian stories the whole way.

[1573] And you stayed warm.

[1574] It didn't even bother me, man. I'm telling you.

[1575] Eight hours of American Indian stories or whatever the fuck it was.

[1576] But cold around water is different than cold.

[1577] It's like the minute something's wet.

[1578] Dude.

[1579] It's just like the intrusion of water.

[1580] Like you get like a little bit of moisture in your gloves.

[1581] It just becomes a different game.

[1582] I was watching those guys play football in the playoffs in Denver.

[1583] and it was minus three with the windchill factor.

[1584] And they were playing football in short sleeves.

[1585] And Ray Lewis, Ray Lewis is sitting there in short sleeves.

[1586] Even on the bench, he's just sitting there like this going, just thinking to himself.

[1587] I'm like, dude, you got no sleeves on.

[1588] It's minus three with the windchill.

[1589] Are you serious?

[1590] Yes.

[1591] What was the actual temperature?

[1592] It was nine degrees.

[1593] Oh, so it was cold, cold, cold.

[1594] Cold, cold.

[1595] And then minus three with the windshield.

[1596] And these guys are out in short sleeves hitting each other.

[1597] Hitting each other, hitting each other.

[1598] That ball's got to sting your hands at that time.

[1599] You think?

[1600] They have gloves on.

[1601] Oh, there you go.

[1602] the the river is so fucking shallow in some spots that's the one thing that was really surprising is that we would bottom out yeah like this is a really fragile ecosystem that's one thing that's probably a lot of difference of course that river is heavily dam now so is that what you were in that area you got dams above you and you got dams below you so but I mean you used to be able to run it with river boats like paddle wheel boats right but it was it was a confusion of channels it took a lot of skill to be able to navigate but there was a continuous navigable channel and when you dam those rivers now you get a lot of sedimentation so the river would at times get scoured out you know you get a mat you get a big flood in the spring you know snow's coming out of the mountains coming out of the yellowstone area and stuff it would come down there and just gouge that area and carry all that sediment away but the dams do flood control you know flood control and they form another function erosion control so you get built up over time just mud silt in that river and so the river is a lot different than it used to be and the river as much as some of the surrounding topography is very similar and in some ways in some regards untouched um that river is now a creation of damming you know oh wow yeah and the river goes to the ocean that river heads when lewis and clark we were talking about earlier louis clark so lewis and clark when they got dispatched on that on their trip and uh they went up i can't if they left in 1802 or 1804.

[1603] They went up, and one of the things, they had many tasks that they were supposed to do, but one of the primary tasks Jefferson gave them was to find the headwaters of the Missouri.

[1604] So people knew, you know, they knew the Missouri was a major artery, but where did the Missouri begin?

[1605] And wherever it began was there a viable way to go up and over out to the Pacific?

[1606] When they went up, they found the headwaters of Montana, or the Missouri just upstream from where we were.

[1607] And the headwaters, they discovered where three rivers they named, they named the Jefferson, the Gallatin, and the Madison.

[1608] So it was the Secretary of State, Secretary of Treasury and the President, I think is what it was, they named those three rivers.

[1609] And that's what heads that river.

[1610] So those rivers head, like the Yellowstone heads up, the Yellowstone Lake, and Yellowstone National Park.

[1611] I'm sorry, the Yellowstone goes another way, but the Missouri and Jeff head in Montana, and then they go and flow all the way out to the Gulf of Mexico.

[1612] people now argue we were so familiar with the Mississippi the Mississippi was named we didn't know that much about the Missouri because you know people have been dinking around the Mississippi long before they were dating Europeans have been messing around the Mississippi long before the Missouri hydrologists later and geologists later argued that the Mississippi wasn't named properly that by any estimation it would be that the Missouri picked up the Mississippi and not vice versa that where those two rivers came together like the Missouri is a true continental river it's draining all all the way from the mountains of Montana out to the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi heads like up in Minnesota you know so they argued that that's actually what went on so the Mississippi by name is now the Mississippi by name but in like a physical sense where you're looking the Mississippi is the Missouri I think the Riverboat gambling is one of the craziest ideas ever that they would allow you to gamble if you got in something floating and then they just pushed you out there.

[1613] It has to be on state lines is it ridiculous though?

[1614] What do that mean?

[1615] So it's got to be in between state lines?

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] So it's like a neutral limbo land?

[1618] You're in like a gray area between states.

[1619] Yeah, it's like you're in like a no man's land because it's bordered by, you know.

[1620] It's like, yeah, one state on one side.

[1621] And I've always proposed that.

[1622] I think that we should have a gray area between all states.

[1623] Yeah.

[1624] Or you could do anything you want.

[1625] You just, you could eat mushrooms.

[1626] You can get a hooker.

[1627] You can do whatever you want.

[1628] Anything shy of murder and robbery.

[1629] Yeah.

[1630] Just a wild west gray area where there's very few laws.

[1631] It would be so crowded.

[1632] Just to try it.

[1633] Everybody knows.

[1634] Everybody knows where it is.

[1635] across the Mississippi, why does that get to be the lawless zone?

[1636] Like the Great Lakes, you can't even see it.

[1637] It could be a massive area of utter lawlessness, but there's no, like, you can't go out there and do crazy stuff that you can't do on the bank.

[1638] Yeah, but I'm just saying a little gray area.

[1639] You know, it's got to get a road like every state.

[1640] You could have a whole resort out in the middle of the main.

[1641] On boats?

[1642] Or just on land, too.

[1643] Just on land.

[1644] Anywhere where there's a border.

[1645] It's fucking, who knows.

[1646] You just have towns.

[1647] You just have Tijuana.

[1648] You just have Tijuana towns.

[1649] Well, you know, the, the idea is being bandied.

[1650] about by some really rich investors that they want to build an artificial city that floats and they want to put it and put it out in international waters and the idea like the international space station but something like that that they would be able to do this and make their own like the utopian society they're like tired of this nonsense this libertarian ideals everybody wants everybody who joins this venture to be able to support themselves and you know to decide as a community that we could all work this out they're going to make a gigantic island and push that bitch out into the ocean wow But good luck, not getting robbed.

[1651] There's a couple problems.

[1652] Good luck.

[1653] Before they get all set up and then it's a Somali Pirates show.

[1654] Yeah, exactly.

[1655] Yeah, exactly.

[1656] Yeah, don't do it in the Indian Ocean.

[1657] Well, don't do it get like fucking kidnapped all the time out there?

[1658] That's why I don't go sail.

[1659] That's why, like, oh, we went sailing in the Caribbean and the Indian Ocean.

[1660] Listen, dude, people get, people get robbed, killed, and raped and thrown overboard all the time.

[1661] Not me, man. I'm going to sailing.

[1662] If I have a couple of Navy vessels full of Navy SEALs following me around.

[1663] A couple.

[1664] otherwise I don't understand people are so trusting like we went there like not me my parents lived in the Bahamas on a sailboat they lived there for a while they took a sailboat from Florida all the way down to the Bahamas and lived in various spots on the sailboat and I was like you guys are fucking after you were after you were gone or before you were around I was I was can't be I don't want to be in the middle of the ocean with no backup and you know some pirates come up happens all the time definitely can happen I mean the odds are pretty small if you look at how many ships are out there but if it happens you're fucked and it could happen I'm afraid of the ocean man right some rich couple get kidnapped really recently happens all the time there's always some new stories I'm like I'm because I grew up you know in a landlock state man like for me for my like you guys might have had that feeling of uh you know like being in the break she had that feeling of kind of like not overwhelmed but like humbled by the landscape some way for me like I'm so new to maritime stuff that for me to be out on the ocean like I didn't grow up like looking out at an ocean Yeah, you know what I mean?

[1665] And for me now, when I'm out on the ocean, I'm always like, this is serious business, man. You know what I mean?

[1666] I get that feeling of just like, holy cow, man. It's unbelievable.

[1667] Like when you get out where you can't see land to me, that's when I start getting that, like, a very nice, uncomfortable feeling.

[1668] My buddy, my buddy used to, for a living, used to take rich guys, they'd buy a sailboat, and then you'd have to sail it to them wherever they were.

[1669] But the problem was that when you do a winter run along the Atlantic, that storm season so very few people want to actually take the sailboat when you buy in the winter and bring it to you because they're going to get caught in storms my buddy did that my buddy used to just like and he'd take a 32 -foot yacht and he got caught in a storm out of san francisco in the winter and it was at night and he had strapped himself in and he was trying you turn the boat because he was gotten 20 -foot swells that were submerging the boat so he would get submerged under the ocean and then pop back up yeah And he did that for 14 hours.

[1670] And not only did they do it 14 hours alone, but he had his crew underground because he was the cabin.

[1671] For 14 hours, he did that.

[1672] And he radioed for a guy to get him, but the guy wasn't experienced enough.

[1673] So then they had to radio a guy who did it a lot in Alaska to tow them back in.

[1674] And they finally get that guy on the phone.

[1675] I guess he flies in.

[1676] He gets in his boat now.

[1677] He goes out, hooks on to him, and toes him to safety.

[1678] 14 hours at night I said how did you know to look He goes I would have to hear I'd have to listen For when the swell was going to hit me Because I couldn't see it So I'd have to listen I hear just And I go And I go And I was And you just And I said were you cold He goes Fuck yeah He was in a wetsuit He goes Fuck yeah you're cold You're really cold Man your face and hands Feel like they're going to fall off Yeah growing up Near the ocean You get too used to it you get you don't you don't really take it into consideration how crazy it is but i had a friend from oklahoma never saw the ocean before and we were in texas and he went to the ocean and he was like he had just gotten back from the moon you know i mean he might as well have been on another planet i asked my friend if he wears a life jacket he goes well there are two different schools i go what do you mean he goes some dude don't i don't said why he goes well i believe that um if you get washed overboard you're probably injured to begin with it's much better just to drown really quickly and to sit there and die of hypothermia for 16 hours later he said or sharks can get you he said they can be right on top you they're not going to find you a lot of times my friend who uh went to my friend who went to the ocean he had to take a cigarette before he described it like he sat down and he goes man he lit his cigarette took a big brother he goes where do I begin man he had to conjure's most descriptive power to him because he was in his 30s to him in his 30s to just see the ocean for the first time he really doesn't leave Oklahoma much and all of a sudden he's in Houston made a trip down to the ocean he's standing out there watching it it's like you know it's got a really fucking mind I hope I'm not saying something out of turn but David Blaine his trick he wanted to cross the Pacific in a bottle and so the problem was he went out on a catamaran in a really thick storm and people were like getting bandied about bleeding knocked out and he's like I'm good with any of that he doesn't care then he got in the water with great whites he's got video of him swimming with great I don't want to tell too much I hope he doesn't you know But anyway, the point is that the guy said, Sam Sheridan, who just, by the way, his book is great.

[1679] Sam Sheridan goes, dude, if you get caught in a bottle, if you were in a bottle in the Pacific, you can get caught in a storm for 72 hours.

[1680] Because he's crossed in the storm.

[1681] You'd be tossing around in that bottle for 72 hours.

[1682] That's a shitty way to die.

[1683] That's a shitty way to die.

[1684] Yeah, because you're not going to be able to keep up with the rolls for 72 hours.

[1685] You're eventually going to get dropped in your head.

[1686] You're going to nod out for a second, and you're going to get elevated and drop it on your fucking head, and you're going to hit that thick glass wall, and it's going to cave your stupid face in.

[1687] You know, I got a friend that I wrote about in my first book who grew up in San Diego, and one of his first jobs, he worked on a tuna boat, and went out, and the tuna boat sank.

[1688] And one of the guys he was with Drown, he stayed on a hatch cover, and with a guy he was moored with Drown, and he managed to keep this guy's body with him the whole time.

[1689] my god eventually they were pulled out and he was just done with he he went to he went to vet school didn't go back out on the ocean anymore and change his birth date to the day change his birthday to the day that he uh got plucked out and now celebrates that as his birthday oh that's hilarious so now like every year he has a big party on the day he got plucked out of the ocean and he's a lot he's a veterinarian up in saint and uh he's a veterinarian up in st helena in the nap valley now he's just like i'm done with the water man wow good for him fuck the ocean the ocean can suck it the ocean's fucking terrifying man but um that's hilarious yeah but lena man thanks again man thanks for taking us there we had the fucking time of our lives it was it was it was good man i look forward to getting you guys back out that uh that's a sweet looking rack yeah it's awesome and you know what people are down can say one last thing yeah please the issue hunting trophies always comes up you know and um and i decorate my home with skulls and antlers and horns and stuff like that and uh and people are down on trophy hunting but i think that experience like that like you went out you had a legit hunt you ate all the meat it's like now like that thing becomes like an emblem a lot more and it's like i think trophies are cool i mean i think that having something like that it's like one word for it would be a trophy and another word would be like a momento or a talisman i don't know it's just like it's it's you'll always look at and remember that he took a lot of cactus quills for Yeah, man, you'll always look at to remember a whole set of experiences, you know, it's not some shallow thing like, oh, I'm such a man that I'm not going to pose his head up, you know?

[1690] Right.

[1691] No, I didn't think of it that way at all.

[1692] You know, there's so much controversially attached, I don't have to tell you this, to the hunting experience, to the idea of killing your own food.

[1693] There's so much craziness on both sides, you know, but the people that are anti -hunting are the people that even that eat meat and wear leather and are still anti -hunting.

[1694] It's shocking how many of those people there are.

[1695] It's such a weird thing.

[1696] I can completely understand your wife's point of view, not wanting to go and do the killing yourself.

[1697] But the idea that there's something wrong with the people who do it, one of the things that I saw about this Newtown Connecticut thing, one of the tweets that I read, I read a lot of crazy tweets, but one of them I read with this guy said, if you're a hunter, tough shit, get a new hobby, no guns.

[1698] And it was like tag, like hashtag no guns.

[1699] And I was like, what kind of fucking, what kind of crazy?

[1700] Crazy nonsense is that.

[1701] If you're a hunter, get a new hobby.

[1702] The idea that these people are willing to get, because of crazy people, whatever many, to get all rights to own firearms stripped away to the point where you can't hunt anymore, and the idea that someone would just propose that, that's the problem with voting.

[1703] The problem with voting is that guy gets to vote too.

[1704] Well, Tim Ferriss posted a cool article by somebody I came up who was, and I read it, and it was about, said guns actually.

[1705] have a lot to do with why there isn't a lot of violence.

[1706] They neutralize violence in some ways it's sometimes in the sense that if you don't have guns, the guy with the biggest knife and the strongest guy is going to do what he wants.

[1707] And guns have always been sort of in a society they keep the strongest guy with a knife from raping somebody in front of 12 people.

[1708] Somebody's going to shoot that fucking guy.

[1709] Yeah, I mean you can't have society in this form without some form of weaponry.

[1710] You have to be able to protect people against aggressive people from somewhere else.

[1711] whether it's a local threat or a threat on a boat from another fucking country like Columbus and his boys I mean that's just if you can't control them if you can't stop them they overcome the same way the Europeans overcame the American Indians I mean it's really the same exact thing you're talking about you're talking about people being overcome by other people there's only one way to prevent that with technology people that are armed that's the only way to prevent that is to the threat of retaliation is too strong for one band of evil people to just go in and take over a town or whatever with guns because otherwise how could you stop it if the whole world if the whole world was disarmed uh you know then you're talking about like some sort of uh look at africa look at the congo right now with people like joseph coney and his group and stuff who come in they've got military grade weapons they come into a village where nobody has any weapons do whatever they want yeah that's mayhem yeah i mean the utopia obviously would be no one has guns and you know if you go hunting then you use guns i guess yeah but by the way what if you did have that then you'd have guys like chain carwin and Nate mark or who would be the kings and call the shots because I'm not going to fight those guys we'd have to band together it's like six guys and be like let's go so it's better um to have uh it's sort of a balancing act and it's better to have some sort of an ability to defend yourself physically and then society can move on and if you can't defend yourself physically just because of your mere size like you're dealing what some Shaquille O 'Neal type do that you just physically, there's nothing you can do about it, then a gun comes into place.

[1712] Well, they always say that they say conflict resolution in any society becomes paramount.

[1713] Like in a society, you have to have a mechanism for conflict resolution because inevitably there will be conflict among men.

[1714] And so how you meet out justice and how you keep order is very important for any society if you think about it.

[1715] Inevitably, there's going to be conflict.

[1716] I think the thing we're missing is teaching young kids how to fight.

[1717] I really do.

[1718] I think it's a gigantic piece of the puzzle that we're missing in the way we raise human beings.

[1719] I'm not saying everybody needs it.

[1720] I'm not saying it should be required, but I'm saying that having it, like, readily available all the time for kids in school to teach them a way to get out their aggression and to...

[1721] Oh, I mean, not just necessarily defense, but also just like dealing with...

[1722] Well, that's what video games are.

[1723] I think it would stop bullying.

[1724] I really do.

[1725] I think if you taught kids martial arts, it would stop almost all bullying because kids would be involved in competition.

[1726] And when they're involved in competition, I'm not thinking.

[1727] about picking on weak people, thinking about how to advance their games so they can compete.

[1728] Whether it's jiu -jitsu or wrestling or boxing or any of those martial sports, I think if you teach as many people as you can how to do it, you're going to have a much more polite society.

[1729] That outlet's very strong.

[1730] That's why they say video games are so popular.

[1731] It's an outlet for aggression.

[1732] But our problem in this country is not a gun problem.

[1733] My opinion, everybody keeps saying it's a gun problem.

[1734] guns are a part of a mental health problem.

[1735] It's a mental health problem.

[1736] But people look at that as being something they can achieve easily.

[1737] But the thing that I've been thinking about lately on the issue is that it's the way that people look at like constitutional freedoms.

[1738] And I think there's a reluctance, you know, on the right, there's traditionally this reluctance to sort of disregard First Amendment liberties sometimes.

[1739] And on the left, there's this tendency to want to disregard Second Amendment liberties.

[1740] And the same way that someone, this guy said, oh, you know what, if you hunt tough, you know, figure something out.

[1741] You could look and say, you know what, the internet is used, you know, for all these things, and like 9 -11 plotters communicated over the internet and various things.

[1742] So if you use the internet, you know, for communication, screw you, we're getting rid of it.

[1743] Like, no one would ever make the case.

[1744] Like, it can be used for evil, therefore it should go away.

[1745] Right.

[1746] It's just not.

[1747] It's a very good point.

[1748] You want to be in a situation where I'm like, for me, it's like, First Amendment stuff.

[1749] extremely important to me. Second Amendment issues are extremely important to me. I feel that just to do reactionary measures against our amendment rights in thinking we're going to solve some problem isn't right.

[1750] The same way, I don't think it's the right to suppress freedom of speech in order to solve a problem that might have come out of the right of assembly or that might have come out of freedom of the press that someone incited violence through the press so they should be shut down, nor do I think that, you know, firearms owners should be shut down.

[1751] I think it's a very complicated issue.

[1752] I think it also fosters some cookie cutter type thinking sometimes where people on the left just follow that predetermined pattern of behavior and people on the right follow that and no one is you know it's excited yeah everybody's taking a side on it and i think as opposed to approaching it as a problem to solve yeah look there's obviously something going on what is the problem is the problem is that everybody has guns that way you can't stop me everyone would shoot the guy if he tried to run into a school and shoot people is that is that the solution or is a solution that you have to pull all the guns out of people's homes and then only the military has the guns well the people aren't going to be comfortable with that either so what what What is the correct solution?

[1753] And how much is mental health taken into it?

[1754] How much are SSRIs and whatever these fucking antidepressants are doing to disturbed people?

[1755] You know, there's a lot of people out there that need antidepressants.

[1756] It makes their life better.

[1757] I've heard that.

[1758] I believe it.

[1759] But I also know Phil Hartman.

[1760] I knew Phil Hartman very well.

[1761] And his wife was on antidepressants when she shot and killed him and then killed herself.

[1762] So, you know, I know that it, and they want a settlement with Zoloft.

[1763] I know that stuff creates psychotic behavior.

[1764] I know it does.

[1765] it's it's pretty pretty much proven you know when when you start having to pay off giant sums it's pretty proven that there's something fucked up going on yeah yeah with antidepressants and and the human mind it's not always but it's see it's not everybody i think there's people that their brain is just not set up correctly i think there's a whole bunch of people in this world where they got a shitty roll of the dice and their brain is just not working good And I think if you want to medicate those people and just start throwing chemicals at the problem, you might not always be doing the right thing.

[1766] And when you do that and you have a really disturbed individual, like it's in the case of over and over again with some of these shooters, the hypothesis is that these drugs are allowing these kids to much more easily perform horrific tasks because they've sort of changed reality.

[1767] Their body chemistry?

[1768] Yeah, well, the way they interact with the mind that they allow you to accept things.

[1769] in a way that you would normally have like giant red psychological flags going off left and right.

[1770] Instead, it just allows you to like deal with shit.

[1771] And that's one of the ways that for some folks, it helps them overcome depression.

[1772] You know, it's like these things are very unusual because one of the things that I've learned talking to my friends that are on these antidepressants, including people that absolutely need them and then people who have tried them and gave them away, is that they never know exactly which one's going to work for you.

[1773] And they'll switch medications on you.

[1774] Okay, let's try this.

[1775] How's that one?

[1776] And then a lot of it is just everybody's got a different setup, and what works for you might not work for him.

[1777] And the only way to tell is they've got to fucking try shit out on you.

[1778] I have a real hard time with that when you're dealing with psychotic people that might have access to assault rifles.

[1779] Like when you have that, those things together.

[1780] And then you find out that 90 % of all these school shootings are either someone who's on withdrawal from SSRIs or someone who's on them.

[1781] And not only that, they were talking, they had these mental health experts on.

[1782] They were talking about how, like, Lofner, the guy who shot the Arizona He had been symptomatic for 10 years.

[1783] I mean, he was psychotic and symptomatic.

[1784] And it was very clear that, you know, and the problem was he said that there's, in the law you can't incarcerate somebody against their will unless they are...

[1785] Hey, I would love to hear this, we've got to wrap this up.

[1786] It's 3 o 'clock.

[1787] Or it's rather it's 3 hours in.

[1788] And at 3 hours in, the show turns into a pumpkin.

[1789] What happens is the audio when it gets too long, gets fucked somehow in the process.

[1790] So the only way we could do is three hours.

[1791] Yeah, so we turn into a pumpkin.

[1792] We want to thank Onit .com for sponsoring the podcast.

[1793] If you go to OnNit and use a code name Rogan, you will save 10 % off any and all supplements.

[1794] We also want to thank Audible .com.

[1795] And if you go to Audible .com forward slash Joe, you will get 30 free days and a one free audio book.

[1796] And thanks Steve Rinella.

[1797] And you could follow Stephen Rinella on Twitter.

[1798] It's not pH like a pussy.

[1799] Like a vampire Stephen Rinella Follow him on Twitter And pick up his excellent book Which I'm really enjoying by the way Meat Eat Eater So you're a really good descriptive writer man You really bring people into the moment It's a great book I really really enjoy it I appreciate you saying that And it's called Meat Eater And look we're going to do this again The show is going to air sometime in April Right Yes sir So come back again We'll do another one of these fucking podcasts I'll bring some bear meat and deer meat Yeah man Beautiful Mail us that smoke and bear meat Yeah and thanks for Thanks for taking us out again man we had the time of our lives can't wait to do it again it's awesome and uh so go buy his book you fucks and uh is it available on audible do they have an audio version no manna no i looked for it i had to read it i actually had to read it my last book was audio with that the audio thing like i don't know people are kind of backing away from it in a weird way all right you dirty freaks tomorrow opi from opi and anthony gregg hughes will be here and then wednesday the great duncan trussle will join us so uh thank you and that's the end of the show so go find some other shit to do holla Thank you.