A Special Episode for Kids: The Fear Facer

[0] Oh, what's that?

[1] That, my dream catcher?

[2] Oh, it's called a dream catcher, so I guess it, like, catches bad dreams, but it hasn't been working so good.

[3] Oh, yeah?

[4] Have you had some bad dreams lately?

[5] Yes, I've had some last night.

[6] Really?

[7] What did you dream about last night?

[8] I don't even really remember.

[9] Yeah, I always forget my dreams, too.

[10] I try sometimes to write them down so I can remember them.

[11] Do you ever do that?

[12] No, ma 'am.

[13] I'm still working on spelling, so...

[14] Gotcha.

[15] Okay, that would probably be really hard to say Marco Boba, I don't know.

[16] Is that his last name, Marco Barbar?

[17] Barbaro, yeah.

[18] Oh.

[19] Yeah.

[20] So why don't we try it?

[21] Okay.

[22] For the New York Times, I'm Ella.

[23] This is the Daily.

[24] Kids Edition.

[25] Today.

[26] We are talking about fears and how to fail.

[27] them.

[28] It's Sunday, September 29th.

[29] Hello.

[30] Hello.

[31] Michael?

[32] Hi, is this Ella?

[33] Um, that was my mom talking, but now it's me. Is that Michael?

[34] Hi, Ella.

[35] Hi.

[36] Are you wearing headphones?

[37] How does it feel?

[38] Great.

[39] All right, cool.

[40] And then...

[41] My colleague Julia Longoria traveled to Nashville, Tennessee to record our conversation with Ella Maynors and her mother Katie Mears.

[42] It feels okay?

[43] Yes, sir.

[44] Are you calling me, sir?

[45] Yeah, sir.

[46] You don't have to do that.

[47] I appreciate it, but...

[48] Got it.

[49] Okay.

[50] How are you hearing me through this microphone?

[51] I'm not actually hearing you through the microphone.

[52] I'm hearing you through the phone, but then eventually a lot of people are going to hear you through the microphone.

[53] I don't get it.

[54] Yeah, I don't get it either.

[55] I thought that we might begin with just a couple of really basic questions.

[56] How old are you?

[57] I just turned nine.

[58] And since you're in, Ella, your bedroom?

[59] Mm -hmm.

[60] I wonder if you could describe a little bit of your surroundings.

[61] Just a couple of things in that room that means something to you.

[62] Everybody in here.

[63] Mm -hmm.

[64] My bunk bed and my stuffed animals.

[65] Can you tell me about those stuffed animals?

[66] I got a unicorn named Uni and Bun Bun Bun is my favorite which is a bunny She has OCD Bun Bun Bun has obsessive compulsive disorder Yes sir I mean yes So Ella I know that you have been through a lot This last year so I wanted to talk about that With you and with your mom Is that that sound fine?

[67] Yeah Let me start by asking you about your biggest fears what are you most scared of um throwing up tornadoes fires wind decks um monsters and going upstairs by myself are in the garage and among those because that's a fair number of fears what would you say are the biggest the things that you're most afraid of getting sick And, like, tornadoes, we have, like, tornado watches here.

[68] Desert, tornado.

[69] And the worst thing is our tornado siren is right beside our house.

[70] This dangerous storm will be near.

[71] Nashville around 7 .40 p .m. Central Standard Time.

[72] Take cover now.

[73] So you can hear it, like, really clear.

[74] Out, it's really loud.

[75] Oh, my God.

[76] It's a twister.

[77] It's a twister.

[78] Like the apocalypse is coming.

[79] That's just kind of where her mind goes.

[80] Mm -hmm.

[81] But we have never had a tornado actually hit our house.

[82] That's good.

[83] Yes, sir.

[84] Yes.

[85] Obsessive compulsive disorder is not what I imagined it to be.

[86] I pictured mainly the compulsive side of OCD, hand washing over and over, checking locks or things like that.

[87] And with Ella in particular, her OCD focuses more on the obsession, obsessive thoughts of vomiting, of tornadoes.

[88] Ella's compulsion is actually avoidance.

[89] She will do anything to avoid the situations where vomit, tornado could happen.

[90] OCD is just something that telling you that scary things are going to happen to you.

[91] It took what Ella had a fear of.

[92] Vombed tornadoes.

[93] And just made that fear just enormous.

[94] When I found out that I had OCD, I feel like it changed my life a lot.

[95] How so?

[96] It was harder for me to do a lot of different stuff that other people can do, and it was just harder, I feel like.

[97] The first time, it was.

[98] just your typical school day and I get to the carpal line at school and I drive up and instead of Ella walking to our car, her teacher does.

[99] And I kind of rolled down the window a little confused going like, okay, where's Ella?

[100] And that's when she told me Ella won't leave the classroom.

[101] And of course I'm going, what do you mean she won't leave the classroom?

[102] And when I got to her, her classroom, she was literally, um, I just remember I was like screaming on the floor.

[103] If I moved, I was going to get sick.

[104] Knees up to her chest, arms wrapped around her.

[105] She was tucked into a little ball.

[106] And she was just laying on the floor, crying.

[107] And she was able to say, like, if I move, I think I'm going to get sick or if I stand up, I'm going to get sick.

[108] I am going to get sick.

[109] There was not one thing I could say.

[110] you're going to be okay, you know, you're not going to get sick.

[111] I am going to get sick.

[112] That helped her.

[113] I am going to get sick.

[114] She was just stuck.

[115] I am going to get sick.

[116] Her brain was stuck.

[117] I am going to get sick.

[118] I am going to get sick on this one thought of I'm going to get sick.

[119] Ella was basically paralyzed with her fear.

[120] And I ended up just having to literally pull her off the floor and carry her to my car.

[121] I am going to get sick.

[122] We didn't know that the things we were doing, the reassuring, her.

[123] You know, you're not going to get sick.

[124] Those were really amplifying her OCD.

[125] And the next thing that really pushed us was the day we got the phone call from the principal that told me there had been just a routine tornado drill at school.

[126] Ella, can you tell me what happened that day?

[127] Well, it was cold outside, so I was wearing two jackets.

[128] The tornado drill was at the end of the day.

[129] Hearing the siren really just kind of sent Ella into that state of all -consuming fear.

[130] I was telling myself, like, no, I'm not going to get sick.

[131] So you kind of tried to talk yourself out of it.

[132] Yeah.

[133] And I didn't take the two coats off.

[134] And it was like really hot inside.

[135] And it was really thick coats.

[136] And we had to duck our heads down.

[137] Even though it was just fake, we were to just make sure we knew what to do.

[138] And what did you do?

[139] I went to the bathroom with everybody.

[140] We ducked our head in, and like then I threw up.

[141] I mean, when they told me, it was like, oh my gosh, like poor child.

[142] How much worse could it get had to be a tornado and it had to be vomit?

[143] It was her two worst fears in one.

[144] And what did that experience do to your fears?

[145] It just made the worst, really.

[146] These fears just kind of consumed her.

[147] They kind of consumed her life.

[148] There have been some boys that bullied me before.

[149] Can you tell me what kinds of things they would say?

[150] Somebody has said to me, like, You're not that good as, like, other people because you have OCD.

[151] Hmm.

[152] That's horrible.

[153] I start crying.

[154] When you start to see her not be able to do the things that she's been able to do is when, as a parent, you go, okay, we've really got to get on this.

[155] Yeah.

[156] I realized that we had to do it the hard way.

[157] Hmm.

[158] What do you mean the hard way?

[159] I don't really know.

[160] Um, what's up?

[161] And I second, can, do you want to talk by yourself so I can have a break?

[162] Do you want to break, Ella?

[163] Please.

[164] Yeah, Ella, if you want a break, I would completely understand.

[165] Take a break.

[166] Right now?

[167] Yeah, go for it.

[168] Okay.

[169] We'll be right back.

[170] Don't leave.

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[177] Tell them you're ready.

[178] Ready?

[179] Yep.

[180] Action.

[181] Okay.

[182] So once you determine that you have to do something, Yes.

[183] What do you do?

[184] My husband and I, we just started researching.

[185] I did so much reading on OCD, the best treatment options for it.

[186] Ella just said too much.

[187] And came to the conclusion that Ella needed some intense therapy.

[188] So that's how we came across the Fear Fasers Camp that they put on.

[189] two times the summer.

[190] Fear facers.

[191] It is for children that have obsessive, compulsive disorder, or other anxiety disorders.

[192] It is put on by the University of Florida and...

[193] Sorry, Ella's making funny faces.

[194] So Ella, just based on the name, it sounds like this is a place where kids go to confront their fear.

[195] Yes Okay, Mom stop talking It's my time to shine Sorry, Ella, it's your time to shine Yeah Go for it Burn So Ella, tell me about what you first thought When you heard about this This camp of fear facers I was excited but nervous at the same time And I was not ready for the drive The drive Yes The long drive Yes Do you remember what you played on the radio?

[196] Um, when I'm sad, I love hearing emotional song, because I don't know why, like, Callum Scott, you are the reason.

[197] And you are the reason that I'm still breathing.

[198] I'll climb every mountain.

[199] Swimming every ocean.

[200] So we just arrived from Nashville to.

[201] To Gainesville.

[202] As you arrive, can you describe what it looks like?

[203] There's tons of parking lots, and it wasn't a spin -night camp.

[204] You should just look it up.

[205] Okay.

[206] Let me do that.

[207] Fear, facers, camp.

[208] I'm looking for the photos.

[209] There aren't really a lot of photos.

[210] There really are almost no photos.

[211] could tell that was like a really nice place.

[212] It kind of looked like a church.

[213] So what was the first thing that you did when you got there?

[214] I got to meet my counselors and I named my OCD OC.

[215] OC.

[216] And why did you do that?

[217] I just like the name.

[218] If you give that OCD a name, it helps them identify.

[219] Like, Okay, is this me thinking or me being scared or is this OCD or in Ellis case?

[220] Is this O .C. being scared.

[221] And tell me about O .C. I always just picture him being like he's a bubble.

[222] Inside my brain, he's a little bubble blue.

[223] It's blue because blue's my favorite color.

[224] I don't know why.

[225] So why did you give O .C. your favorite color, do you think?

[226] I don't know.

[227] Is it kind of like O .C. is a little bit of part of you?

[228] Like it's always going to be there?

[229] Yeah, I think it would always be there.

[230] She or he's just sneaky.

[231] Sneaky?

[232] Yeah.

[233] Sneaky how?

[234] You don't know what he's gonna do?

[235] He tells me, or she tells me, like I am gonna get sick.

[236] I am gonna get sick.

[237] I am gonna get sick.

[238] I am gonna get sick.

[239] And I say I'm not gonna get sick, I'm not gonna get sick.

[240] And that makes it worse.

[241] I am gonna get sick.

[242] I am gonna get sick.

[243] I am gonna get sick.

[244] I'm not going to get sick.

[245] I am going to get sick.

[246] I am going to get sick.

[247] I am going to get sick.

[248] I am going to get sick.

[249] So they told me to talk to O .C., like, different.

[250] I am going to get sick.

[251] I am going to get sick.

[252] I am going to get sick.

[253] To help O .C. get defeated, you can, like, say, yes, I am going to get sick.

[254] Yes, I am going to get sick.

[255] Yes, I am going to get sick.

[256] Yes, I am going to get sick.

[257] I am going to get sick.

[258] I am going to get sick.

[259] I don't know how, but it defeats O. because it's like, oh, no fair.

[260] Just so Ella's OCD could have a friend, I named my OCD, Ocinda.

[261] I discovered, like, okay, I definitely have a little OCD in me. I check my stove at night.

[262] We have a gas stove, and I always check, and I can't just look at it.

[263] I have to feel that the little lines are facing all.

[264] Because I want the pleasure of saying I told you so.

[265] Ocinda, in my mind, is just like, Violet, the grandmother character.

[266] I think Granny's right.

[267] Can somebody write that down?

[268] From Downton Abbey, who always has to have things a certain way, and it's very particular and picky, just nagging.

[269] You see what?

[270] I have plenty of friends I don't like.

[271] That's what Ocinda would be.

[272] Ella, do you remember we were sitting on the basketball court and we sat and we listed all of your fears?

[273] Yeah.

[274] Zero, I can, I'm not really scared of it.

[275] Ten, biggest fear ever.

[276] Vom it, drilling up, tornadoes, wind decks, fires, uh, and others.

[277] And so, Ella, what did the counselors do after you told them about your fears?

[278] We did them.

[279] We kind of just did them.

[280] Are we, well, we, we did, like, exposures to them.

[281] Exposing yourself to the thing that you're most afraid of.

[282] Yes, sir.

[283] Yes.

[284] So, at one point during the week, during Ella's morning, they tackle tornadoes.

[285] They would bring me into a room that nobody was in.

[286] me and my mom and my counselors, they would bring their iPad in there to play something on it.

[287] The first thing that I watched was not too hard, and then I went up to harder lines.

[288] The dog was running kind of to the tornado.

[289] I was like, no, doggy stay here.

[290] They didn't take the mom.

[291] I was like, I would just take the dog too.

[292] Then after they just took me to the bathroom and played the tornado siren, we redid like what happened like when I got sick and we put two jackets on me. Wow.

[293] Everybody's like, why two coats?

[294] Well, they really did try to create the situation at school to really.

[295] really kind of put her back in that moment when she was so fearful at school and have her see, you can do this.

[296] I said, oh, no. The sarmoran is getting louder and louder.

[297] O .C. started talking to me. There's going to be a tornado.

[298] There's going to be a tornado.

[299] And I was like, yes, there is, yes, there is, yes, there is, yes, there is.

[300] No fear.

[301] We kept doing it over and over again.

[302] And then it just kept getting easier and easier.

[303] And then the exposures for the day were, like, over.

[304] So after the first exposure, we moved to vomit.

[305] And, of course, as soon as we said that, Ella's eyes got really big.

[306] It was like, wait, we're already going to do vomit?

[307] That's one of the really hard ones.

[308] And so they explained that, you know, we're going to watch a video.

[309] And, of course, her first response is like, yeah, I don't know about that.

[310] Yeah, I rated it at a tin.

[311] Do you mind if I play it?

[312] Yeah, I don't care really.

[313] They showed me the Pitch Perfect, which started with a TIN.

[314] I knew something was going to happen, but I didn't know when.

[315] Whenever I watch Pitch Perfect, my heart races.

[316] Right now?

[317] Yeah.

[318] Really?

[319] Yeah.

[320] I'm sorry.

[321] Do you want to stop doing this?

[322] I want to keep going.

[323] Okay, okay.

[324] It's like I saw the sign and I opened up my eyes.

[325] I saw the bleh.

[326] There's just vomit shooting out of her mouth.

[327] So bad.

[328] It's like, but like kids, it's worth it.

[329] Oseys was like, you are going to get sick.

[330] You are going to get sick.

[331] So I was like, yes, I am, yes, am, just am, just am.

[332] And O .C. is like, okay, fine, I give up.

[333] You realized that it wasn't as scary as you thought.

[334] The more times I watched it, it helped better.

[335] After we left the room with the iPads, that is when we went to the kitchen area and started the exposure of pretending to vomit up water.

[336] They took me to the sink and we got water in our mouth.

[337] and then we spitted it out, but it would be kind of like we threw it up.

[338] So you kind of pretended to be throwing up?

[339] Yes.

[340] It was easy because I don't know.

[341] It was just pretty easy on that.

[342] And then we moved on to the bathroom, and that's where everything got trickier.

[343] That definitely was hard.

[344] So these counselors grab a handful of the really gross jelly beans that you play, like Beanboozle, with, so they taste like vomit or grass clippings or whatnot.

[345] And I mean, God bless these counselors because they're the ones that ate the jelly beans, not Ella.

[346] Ella just had to watch.

[347] And they chewed them up and then pretended to vomit in the toilet.

[348] One girl almost actually kind of got sick, kind of was gagging.

[349] I don't know if it was the taste of the jelly beans or if it was just gag reflex.

[350] But it really sounded like she got sick, and that's when Ella just really lost it.

[351] They were saying, you know, okay, Ella, why don't you look to see if she got sick?

[352] And she did not want to look to see if she got sick.

[353] They would ask me my rating.

[354] I said 10.

[355] I refused to, like, look in the toilet.

[356] And I was crying, and my mom was crying.

[357] I stepped out of the stall because I think my emotion was upsetting Ella Moore.

[358] She said this is too much, like why?

[359] So Katie, it sounds like you're starting to question this whole exposure thing.

[360] Yes, I had doubts.

[361] Did we make the right decision doing this?

[362] Is this really going to help her?

[363] And I remember being outside and just going like, is this how it's supposed to be?

[364] And they were like, yes.

[365] You know, she's, this is hard.

[366] This is going to be a hard moment for her, but she's going to have a moment in there where she realizes she can do this.

[367] I was like, why did I come to camp?

[368] This is not fun.

[369] My mom was like, she's not going to want to come back tomorrow.

[370] But they wouldn't let me, like, leave.

[371] So I had to, like, do it.

[372] So they took a picture with my mom's phone.

[373] So they said, okay, how about we take a picture?

[374] And you look at the picture.

[375] Picture of inside, I mean, you know, the toilet.

[376] And Ella wouldn't look at it at first and covered her eyes.

[377] And they were like, you know, Ella, let's try to look at it.

[378] I looked at the picture inside the toilet.

[379] They said she just kind of just stared at it, like made herself look at it.

[380] And she just eventually took two steps.

[381] And I looked inside the toilet actually without the picture.

[382] Hmm.

[383] They only made me look at it once.

[384] I was so scared.

[385] But it's, like, worth it.

[386] I was outside the bathroom talking with one of the doctors, and we heard them, like, cheering inside, just Ellis Kelmsor's, like, just going crazy in the bathroom.

[387] And so we literally made, like, a tunnel for her to go through, coming out of the doctor's.

[388] the bathroom and we all like cheered and high -fived her and the first thing she did was come over to me and give me a big hug and I mean of course she's got you know like kind of red eyes and you know I was like you know what was it like and she's like I was proud of myself like I felt brave and hadn't heard her say that in a really long time I felt really good after I did all these exposures.

[389] I felt good.

[390] I felt happy.

[391] I felt brave.

[392] I felt everything, really.

[393] I've always said, you know, we will sit with you in the bottom of the pit, you know, and we'll just get through it.

[394] We'll get through it together.

[395] And at some point, everybody's going to be at the bottom of the pit.

[396] You know, no one's life is perfect.

[397] And I think the younger they are and can and start learning to be there and work themselves back up, I mean, that's an advantage.

[398] Oh, sorry.

[399] It's like hard months.

[400] So worth it.

[401] I mean, we've, gosh, she's going to be an amazing adult.

[402] Ella, there are a lot of kids who have OCD.

[403] Yeah.

[404] There are also a lot of kids who have major fears, even if they don't have OCD.

[405] But most kids don't go to a special camp to face their fears.

[406] So what would you say to a kid like that?

[407] What kind of advice would you give him or her?

[408] First I would say hi, and then I would be like just do kind of what I do, like do like strategies what I do, or like say yes I am, yes I am, kind of like that.

[409] And hopefully it will get better.

[410] Do you think it took away those fears?

[411] No, sir, no. If you have these fears now, how are they different?

[412] They aren't as scary.

[413] Ella, I've really enjoyed getting to know you in this conversation very much, and you're very brave.

[414] Thank you.

[415] Thank you.

[416] Thank you.

[417] And thank you, Katie.

[418] Thank you.

[419] The daily is made by Theo Balcom, Andy Mills.

[420] Lisa Tobin Rachel Quester Lindsay Garrison Annie Brown Claire Tennis Gare Paige Callett Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fisher Larissa Anderson Wendy Dorr Chris Wood Jessica Chang Alexandria Leon John Finn Wolf Lisa Chow Eric Krupp Kee Mark George Luke Luke Banderpluk Adisa Egan Kelly Prime Julia and Gloria Lungorlia Sindhu, Yamistan, and Don, Jasmine Aguilera, M .J. Davis -Linn, Dan Powell, Austin Mitchell, and Isserrakevedo.

[421] And our theme music is from Jim Brownburn, Van Bands Lambert of Wonderly.

[422] Some of the music in this episode was composed by Alexander Overington, and special thanks to Donna Della Cruz, who originally reported this story.

[423] Special thank you to Sam Doolness.

[424] Michaela Bouchard, Stella Bouchard, Stella Tan, and Julia Simon.

[425] There's like a huge team.

[426] Oh, okay.

[427] That we all work together to make the show every day.

[428] That's it for the Daily.

[429] I'm Michael Barbaro.

[430] See you tomorrow.

[431] Just talk right into the night.

[432] Vomit and tornadoes.

[433] One more time.

[434] Vomit and tornadoes.

[435] Sing it again.

[436] Voment and tornadoes.

[437] Cool.

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