When You Have Debt Your Money Is Not Really Yours

[0] Welcome to the Ramsey Show America.

[1] Thrill to have you with us.

[2] This is where we help you win with your money, win in your work and win with your relationships.

[3] The phone number to jump in for you is AAA 8255 -2 -2 -25 -2 -5 -2 -5.

[4] That's AAA 825 -2 -2 -5 -2 -5.

[5] I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the fabulous Rachel Cruz joins me. It's always fun when we're together.

[6] We always have some fun calls.

[7] She'll be our resident money expert today, and I'm your resident work expert.

[8] and otherwise known as income.

[9] I'm the guy to help you make more money, mo money, more problems.

[10] Money, no problems is what they say.

[11] So we'll talk about those problems that you're having.

[12] So we always have a good time with it.

[13] AAA 825 -5 -225.

[14] You ready to go?

[15] Yeah, let's do this.

[16] All right, very good.

[17] Let's go to Stella in Tucson, Arizona.

[18] Stella, how can we help?

[19] Good morning.

[20] Thank you for taking my call.

[21] You bet.

[22] What's up?

[23] Nice morning in my time zone, at least.

[24] I was wondering, how do I protect myself in a family trust?

[25] And I can give you a little...

[26] Yeah, tell us a little bit more.

[27] My parents are putting their property into a trust for all of myself and my sibling.

[28] It's been mostly completed.

[29] They haven't finished the final paperwork on it.

[30] And I'm looking at finishing a house that they started on the property 20 years ago.

[31] It's going to be part of the trust.

[32] Is this a good idea?

[33] And how do I make sure that, like, I don't get sold out?

[34] yeah so will you guys be splitting their primary home then how many siblings do you have I'm the oldest of nine oh wow okay so so nine of them will be splitting the primary residents but you're saying on the property is another home that's your putting money into yes uh it's actually going to be the primary home it's they've been working on it for 20 years and they live on a second home on the same property.

[35] Okay, okay.

[36] So with the, what was the, what, for you to be, you're using your own money to fix up this property?

[37] Yes.

[38] Okay.

[39] And what was the motivation for you to do that?

[40] It's an amazing property.

[41] And the house once completed will be absolutely amazing.

[42] And we've been looking at moving and for the cost, to finish out this house I can't even touch it to buy it because of property yeah I mean I would sit down with the siblings with your well with your parents probably first and foremost and I would I would lay out exactly how much out of pocket you have put into this property and that you want to be able to recoup that in the instance of a sale so if they go and sell the whole property and they sell both structures if you will right you should come out ahead of your siblings because you're upping the value of the property, but it's within your own money.

[43] So being able to get that at least back out.

[44] Do you have good records of everything you've put into it?

[45] We haven't started yet.

[46] I'm making sure I...

[47] Okay.

[48] Oh, so you've amassed this money?

[49] You've got all this money saved up.

[50] Yes.

[51] And how much are we talking about?

[52] To finish out the house, we're looking at 60 to 70 ,000.

[53] Okay.

[54] And how much could you you sell it for?

[55] Like, how much would it sell for today versus if you fixed it up?

[56] That's what I want to know.

[57] Well, today, with the unfinished house, I am not sure what the value is because it was based, be based off the other home.

[58] It's a four -bedroom home.

[59] The home we're looking at finishing out is an eight -bedroom home.

[60] Right, but the question we're asking is, and you may not know, but this is something I think you can know, is to sit down with a really good real estate professional.

[61] And if you don't have one, Ramsey, we've got some great options for you.

[62] Ramsey, Sleep, dot com slash agent uh ramesysolutions .com slash real estate we got all these slashes uh the point is is you need to find a good expert to say if i put 60 to 70 thousand dollars into this house what do i think that is going to evaluate the what will the new value of the property be isn't that what you're getting yeah absolutely yeah and and so let me just say with home renovate because with how old are your parents sorry i have so many thoughts uh my dad's in the 70s okay My mom's a few years younger.

[63] And they'll be on this property until they pass, correct?

[64] Assuming so?

[65] No. My mom, if my dad passes first, then he's got some health issues.

[66] She's gone.

[67] She doesn't want to be on the property.

[68] Okay.

[69] Too far out in the country for her.

[70] Okay, okay.

[71] That's good to know.

[72] Well, because I was going to say just for your benefits, if I'm going to be putting $70 ,000 into a property, you know, you want to run the comps and make sure that, again, not only do you recoup that, but you get out of it to a degree, the value.

[73] Because, because, you could put 70 grand in an index fund and make 12%.

[74] You know what I mean?

[75] So, like, this is an investment that you're making.

[76] And that needs to be said out loud.

[77] And I, and it gets messy because it's a family property.

[78] But I would get all nine siblings on an email and I would get things in writing.

[79] The plan of what's going down, the more communication, the better.

[80] So that's, in my opinion, how you protect yourself in the situation.

[81] But I mean, and it may just because you love the property and you think it is a really great investment and you work it out with a real estate professional and you really figure out, okay, this is what I can recoup and it's worth it on my end for the energy, the time, my money.

[82] I want to get a good amount out of it.

[83] But also just no sell it.

[84] It gets real messy, real fast with redoing properties, period, because you're going to get in there and they're going to tear a drywall down and be like, nope, you got black mold and it's going to cost, you know, 20 grand more to do this or that.

[85] Like, it can get real expensive.

[86] real fast.

[87] So just know that ahead of time.

[88] It's going to take longer and more money.

[89] And then you put the family dynamics on top of it can.

[90] So I have a question.

[91] It can get messy.

[92] Yeah, Stella, I may have missed this, but are you guaranteed that you're going to get this house at some point?

[93] What the conversation has been, and I've included siblings on this and everybody's on board with us doing this.

[94] Nobody else wants the property right now.

[95] I didn't ask it.

[96] I understand that.

[97] I'm saying answer my question.

[98] Is it guaranteed and if it's not in writing, where is it in the sense that you personally will take ownership of this house at some point in the future?

[99] Is that guaranteed?

[100] It's guaranteed that we can live there.

[101] I don't have in writing that it's our house.

[102] All right, I'm going somewhere with this.

[103] I don't like this move.

[104] I wouldn't spend a nickel on this.

[105] You called to ask our opinion.

[106] I personally would not put one nickel into this home unless you knew, and what I mean by new is it would is in the will, or it is actually transferred to you.

[107] I wouldn't put a dime into this.

[108] I just wouldn't.

[109] Yeah, or you guys just outright buy it and make it your primary residence, and you put your money into it, right, and redo it.

[110] That's my point.

[111] This is me. Maybe I'm too cautious.

[112] For all the reasons that Rachel laid out, she's right, why, I guess here's my question, what in the world would cause you to put any money into this right now when it's so up in the air and it's just too complicated?

[113] And I didn't realize you guys were going to use this as your primary resident, Stella.

[114] I thought you were going to fix it up.

[115] And then when they passed or moved on, you guys as a group was going to sell it.

[116] You're going to move into it.

[117] Save the money.

[118] Invest it.

[119] We're planning to hold the trust.

[120] Like, nobody's planning to sell.

[121] Yeah.

[122] But are you going to move into it?

[123] You and your immediate family, you and your husband.

[124] Okay.

[125] So then that's a different deal because now you're that, you don't have real estate been under your name.

[126] And as the years and decades goes on and that value, then there's nothing.

[127] you don't have it, you know, to your name.

[128] Does that make sense?

[129] And real estate is one of the biggest parts of your financial portfolio.

[130] Don't do it.

[131] Don't do it.

[132] If you want to fix it up and all of that and you guys decide, hey, here's what I'm going to recoup out of it.

[133] Here's the growth of it.

[134] That's the only way I would do it.

[135] I don't think I would buy a home unless it was deeded to me and I bought it outright.

[136] Don't fix up a home that you don't own.

[137] Listen, the audience in the lobby is agreeing with me here.

[138] Save the money.

[139] Look at it.

[140] Thumbs up everywhere.

[141] Save the money.

[142] Invest the money.

[143] And then when it becomes yours, fix it up.

[144] Watch Fix It Up shows if you need to scratch that edge.

[145] Don't do it.

[146] It's not a good move.

[147] Sorry to be cranky.

[148] This is the Ramses show.

[149] You're a cranky, Ken. Here's the hard truth.

[150] Your investment dollars could be winding up in the pockets of companies that hold positions that you don't agree with.

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[164] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[165] I'm Ken Coleman.

[166] Rachel Cruz joins me. So excited that you're with us.

[167] By the way, we have a fabulous, fabulous live audience today.

[168] in the lobby of Ramsey's Solutions.

[169] And so come on, come on, come all.

[170] We'd love to see.

[171] We just took pictures, Rachel Cruz and I, on the break, with some folks who traveled from Germany.

[172] Unbelievable.

[173] It was exciting.

[174] And they had cowboy boots on and everything.

[175] I was like, they're so Nashville.

[176] One guy was from Minnesota.

[177] I don't know how he got to Germany, but we're glad he's back.

[178] One lady was from the Netherlands, maybe a couple, and they got excited about my sweater because that's what the soccer jersey.

[179] Oh.

[180] That's the official jersey color of the Netherlands.

[181] So anyway.

[182] Wow, you're so sporty.

[183] So athletic.

[184] I am.

[185] Just call me sporty Ken today.

[186] Just sporty spice over here.

[187] Speaking of sporty things, how about smart decisions?

[188] I don't know what the connection is.

[189] A sporty there.

[190] I tried.

[191] It didn't work.

[192] But here we go.

[193] So August, Rachel, we always have these great deals, right?

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[195] is to making money and experiencing meaning.

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[197] These are just two bestsellers that represent a lot of bestselling books all on sale until August 31st for only four more days.

[198] My goodness, $12.

[199] Ramsey Solutions .com slash store.

[200] Ramsey Solutions .com slash store.

[201] That's where you go get them.

[202] All right.

[203] Brianna is up in Tampa, Florida.

[204] Brianna, how can we help?

[205] Hi.

[206] Thank you for taking my call.

[207] sure um so i actually am trying to figure out what i should do to kind of up my income i'm considering um returning back to school but i don't know if that's really the answer right now mainly because i have so much debt that i would like to pay off eventually that's the goal um but i do know that i have an income problem and i'm just trying to figure out exactly what to do all right three quick questions and we'll dive in question number one um how much debt do you have So I have a little under $100 ,000.

[208] Okay, we'll just call it $100K for conversation.

[209] Question number two, what are you doing for a living now, and how much do you make?

[210] So I personally make $15 an hour.

[211] I'm a thrift store assistant manager, and I love what I do, but I only am able to work part -time.

[212] That's what they hired me for, and I'm only making that $15 an hour.

[213] Okay.

[214] Third question.

[215] what degree or what certificate, what are you considering going to school for, and what do you think the potential income is attached to that?

[216] So there's two different options.

[217] One would be, I would have to go into more debt for sure or four, and that would be like graduating with all these bills from it, and that would be nursing school.

[218] And then, and I'm with nurses starting here in Florida.

[219] It's about $75 ,000 a year.

[220] And then the other option would be to be a marriage counselor, and I have an opportunity actually to pay as I go with my church's university.

[221] And with that, I would have a bill every month that I would have to pay, but I wouldn't be in debt and more debt at the end of graduation.

[222] What would the bill be every month?

[223] It would be $185.

[224] Okay.

[225] And that certificate, Brianna, through your church, is that like an accredited program that you could use?

[226] It would have to be a degree to do counseling.

[227] Well, that's how I'm making sure that it's not something within their church, that you can only counsel in their church or something, that you could actually use it out in the marketplace as well?

[228] Correct.

[229] What's the total bill on that?

[230] How many years are we talking about?

[231] It would probably, it would be four years altogether.

[232] So four years, let's round it up to two a month.

[233] So, 2 ,400 a year.

[234] So we're looking at about $9 ,900, something, $9 ,000, $9 ,000.

[235] Okay.

[236] Well, so a couple of things.

[237] Number one, you're broke and you make very little money.

[238] So paying for school right now is not an option.

[239] It's a pause.

[240] It's a pause.

[241] I do have other income, though, just to say, like my husband, I'm married.

[242] Oh, well, what's your combined income?

[243] Sorry.

[244] So that is roughly about, I'd say, 35.

[245] $500 a month.

[246] And what does he do?

[247] So he works two different jobs.

[248] He actually works at Taco Bell at night, making $12 .50 an hour.

[249] And then during the day, he actually just started a job this week.

[250] That is a full -time position working for life lock insurance.

[251] And it ranges just based on sales and how many hours he works.

[252] Like, he gets bonuses.

[253] So it ranges from $13 an hour up to $20.

[254] Okay.

[255] All right.

[256] A couple things.

[257] both of you need to be thinking about your talent, your skill set, and where we can make the most money with that.

[258] So let me just take you, for example, you're an assistant manager of a thrift store, and you're making $15 an hour and you're only getting part -time hours.

[259] So you're obviously very good with people, yes?

[260] Yes.

[261] Okay.

[262] I would be looking for management positions, full -time management positions, in a variety of could be retail, Could be maybe an office manager.

[263] I don't know.

[264] But the skill set, am I organized, am I really, really good with people and communicating and serving?

[265] Because you need to be looking at, I'm talking about a Walmart job, okay, which is nothing to sneeze at.

[266] And let me tell you why I'm saying Walmart as an example.

[267] And I'm not trying to hang this on you, okay?

[268] But right now, you're only working to get out of debt and save money and then eventually fund your future.

[269] That's the order of this right now.

[270] So, let me tell you why I like Walmart, okay?

[271] Walmart is paying for people's college educations.

[272] So you take that thrift store management skill, and you go in and go, I'll tell you what, I'll take the graveyard shift, I'll be a manager, or I'll go in, and I'll start here, and I'll work my way into being a manager within six months or a year, and I'm making $18, $20, $22, $25 an hour, somewhere in that range, all right?

[273] And then they're going to pay for my college, and they'll pay for nursing school.

[274] This is happening with big companies like this.

[275] I think Target does it as well.

[276] Check me on that, but I know Walmart does it.

[277] They made a big announcement coming out of COVID.

[278] This is the path for you.

[279] So no debt at all the rest of your life, but we've got to increase our income.

[280] If your husband, by the way, has basic skill set.

[281] You know what I'd rather him do?

[282] I'd rather him go to a trade school and cash flow through a trade school.

[283] And he's not working to Taco Bell anymore.

[284] He's working as an electrician or an HVAC.

[285] and he's making $30, $35, $40, $45 an hour.

[286] If you guys can buckle down and go, where are we able to make the most money in exchange for our time?

[287] And then you walk through the baby steps.

[288] And I want to hand it to Rachel to walk through that $100 ,000 in debt and have her cast some vision through our baby steps.

[289] But I just wanted to preach at you there for a minute.

[290] And I'm preaching in a belief standpoint.

[291] I believe you guys could be making way better money, which will help you pay off the $100 ,000.

[292] And I think if we focus on that and you go to a Walmart or another company like that that may pay for your nursing, I just, that's coming.

[293] That's down the line.

[294] Yeah, and it's finding other options to, Brianna, because when people say, you know, and I'll quote it back to you, but you said at the beginning of the call, well, if I do this right, I have to take on debt.

[295] If you took debt off the table and just said, okay, so now what are my options?

[296] It's going to force you to be more creative to either thing.

[297] Okay, I need to just find another job, be patient and save.

[298] I need to find a job that maybe will contribute, you know, could contribute to my tuition, like what Ken was saying.

[299] And also being in an environment, Brianna, that has an upward trajectory, which is why I like an element, like a Walmart or something.

[300] You can use those same skills, but you're going to continue to raise your income, right?

[301] And so, you know, and not there's anything wrong with stores or all of that, but I think for a temporary solution, it's fine.

[302] But your long -term career path for the rest of your life, we want something that you can grow into, right?

[303] And so putting yourself in those positions, like what Ken is saying is so great.

[304] And I want to encourage you, too, you know, the world today, it is shifting.

[305] And there are still jobs that require a college degree, absolutely.

[306] And fields, obviously, nursing.

[307] You have to go get schooling for it or counseling even.

[308] But there's, there are many companies that are paying, you know, 40 grand, 50 grand a year.

[309] And you could be a personal assistant.

[310] You can do online.

[311] I mean, you can find a niche that you don't need a college degree to just up your income.

[312] in general.

[313] Now, you know, our goal and what Ken's goal is is to be able to, you know, find something long term for you that you love and are passionate about.

[314] But I'm with Ken. I think in the meantime, you guys can find some other options.

[315] So hold on the line, Brianna.

[316] Christian's going to pick up because I want to, I'm going to gift you guys.

[317] Ken's whole assessment and the final work you're wired to do.

[318] Yeah, and his assessment for you and your husband both to check that out.

[319] And I think once you get those incomes up, then you start really attacking this debt.

[320] And you do that by the smallest amount to the largest amount.

[321] So, Hold on the line and Christian will pick up and get that stuff for you.

[322] Just a quick perspective, what can we do to pay off $30 ,000 a year in debt?

[323] That's a goal.

[324] That would get us to that $100 ,000 pretty quickly, and then we can move forward on the work we really want to do.

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[341] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[342] I'm Ken Coleman.

[343] Rachel Cruz joins me, and we are here for you taking your calls about your money, your income, your relationships, your situations around all of that.

[344] Triple -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -5 is the phone number, AAA, 825 -5 -2 -25.

[345] John is up next in Orlando, Florida.

[346] John, how can we help today?

[347] Yes, my question is basically to determine if I just have too much cash sitting in my core account.

[348] I own my home, all my vehicles, and I basically have 92 % of my money sitting in cash or treasury bonds.

[349] How much is that?

[350] about $4 ,100 ,000.

[351] Okay.

[352] Well done, John.

[353] Hold on.

[354] A little cough.

[355] You have $4 .1 million basically in cash, if I heard that right?

[356] That's where they're sitting in cash accounts.

[357] Correct, in a cash account.

[358] And then I, well, and part of that is a million dollars in a 20 -year treasury bonds that have bought over the past year.

[359] at an average of like 4 .82.

[360] Okay, so about $3 million is in a cash account.

[361] Correct.

[362] Yeah, you have too much.

[363] The bonds are extremely liquid, you know.

[364] Well, yeah, so John, how old are you?

[365] 61.

[366] 61.

[367] Okay.

[368] What's caused you not to invest on any level, whether that's real estate or the market, the stock market, like what's caused you not to invest?

[369] I'm being in real estate.

[370] I do have a few retirement accounts that, you know, that are in some stocks like Google and Amazon.

[371] How much?

[372] And I start the retirement total of $273 ,000 in between a rough and traditional onset.

[373] Okay.

[374] So no 401K, nothing like that?

[375] Well, I own some real estate that will be paid off a bit.

[376] yeah I've not done a great job with that no no we're not judging you know we're just trying to get the full picture of the total amount of money you have available and and so your opening question was do I have too much money in cash accounts and the answer is yes you do we'd like to see you invest that with our strategy yeah I mean I think you're still a young guy for sure and I and and just being able to look to say hey I you know with the the average growth you know 10 11 12 percent what that could get you you know john your money making money is basically what it is because right now when you say that you that's all liquid is that sitting in just like a high yield savings or is that a traditional savings count where do you have that three million it's like a it's like a fidelity you know they have these money markets and they yep the one i'm in pays 5 .27 right now totally yeah and then the bond the treasury bonds which has gone way up because those yields have gone You know, it's at 4 .82.

[377] I figured rather than taking any risk, I'm just sitting on the side making 5 % right now, but that's going to change.

[378] Yeah, but have you done the math on the compound interest if you got in the game?

[379] Yeah.

[380] You're scared.

[381] This is all fear, and there's nothing to be ashamed of, but I've never talked to anybody that told me the story you just told me. That's astounding.

[382] It's truly amazing.

[383] you're certainly not hurting.

[384] You're 61.

[385] You got a lot of money in the bank.

[386] You're safe.

[387] Man, you're safe.

[388] But you know, you called us.

[389] Are you starting to feel as though I should probably be investing a good chunk of this?

[390] Where can we help you?

[391] Because you're just afraid to death of the stock market and mutual funds and the whole nine yards.

[392] It's just fear.

[393] It's driving this.

[394] Actually, I've watched a lot of the shows and the mutual funds seem appealing.

[395] okay great well we've got a strategy for that yeah I mean for sure yeah so I think John are you married yeah yeah okay so I mean if I were you tonight I think you and your wife go buy a nice bottle of wine because you can afford it and sit down open it up and you guys start dreaming dream about hey where do we want to be we're 60 let's just say the Lord's been good to us and we live till we're 90 we got 30 years what do we want to do with this money and there's a really interesting book, John.

[396] It's called Die Was Zero.

[397] I want you to buy it.

[398] I don't agree with 100 % of it, but it's a very interesting take on, and I think it leans more in a John's case, right, if there is a lot of wealth, what the role money plays in our life and what you want to do with it, because this book argues, which I think in your case would work, not for everyone listening, but in John's specific case, you know, that to enjoy your money, and it's not just spending it all, but if you have kids, John, and you want to be able to help them, you do you wait till you know you're gone at 90 and your kids are 60 and they you know or is there stuff you can do now you know with them to to help that legacy happen in real time the the generosity portion you know charity and and what you give to is there is there more you could be doing kind of in these buckets with the money you have today while knowing yes you need to live off of this for 30 years but but I'm saying all that to say you're in a great position just to dream and we say dream and HD, like put pictures to words, as Dr. John Deloney says, but you and your wives tonight sit down and just say, hey, what do we want the next 30 years to look like?

[399] Because the truth is, John, you get out this call and do nothing.

[400] And you're going to be fine.

[401] To Ken's point, I mean, you're going to be fine.

[402] But I think also to say, hey, what if we grew a percentage of this and look for the next six years and we put it in some mutual funds, maybe some, you know, growth in income, aggressive growth, you know, picking out some good mutual of funds, I have good track records, and putting a portion of it and just seeing.

[403] And then you look up in five years, re -evaluate and be like, okay, we like that.

[404] You know, so you can, you can step into this.

[405] I think there's some personalities that are like put all the chips in the middle of the table and we're going all in and we're going to make 10, 12 percent starting today.

[406] And you could do that.

[407] I mean, if I were in your position, I'd lean more towards that.

[408] But I think it's okay for you guys to kind of stare, step your way into it.

[409] But I would really advise you to sit down with one of our smart vester pros with the smart vester pro because sitting down with an investment professional in general is going to be really helpful because also john what's playing in the back of my mind which we don't have time to unpack right now on this call but you know it is the the tax you know implications to some of this the estate tax you know all of that i just want to make sure that you're doing things specifically in a really wise way that's going to be the best for you guys in your situation.

[410] So if, yeah, Christian can can give you that link when we get off the phone.

[411] And interview a couple of them.

[412] If you have an investment professional that you love and you trust, you know, sit down and talk to them.

[413] But I think getting someone in your corner that does this day in and day out is going to be really helpful because I do think I think you can do a lot with this.

[414] And I think your money can make money.

[415] And again, not just for the sake of like, we're just going to build a bunch more wealth, but to be able to continue to live a great and rich life for yourself and your family and others.

[416] Yeah, and John, I agree with Rachel.

[417] I think going to sit down with your wife first and laying out what you want to do with that money, where you'd like to see it go.

[418] Have that on paper ready to talk about when you go sit down with some of these smart investor pros.

[419] And as you interview several of them talk about it, see what their plan is.

[420] And you get to pick the one you like.

[421] I really like that.

[422] But I also want to just hit something for you, John, and our larger audience.

[423] Rachel and I just got an email this morning that was forwarded to us.

[424] and it was it was from a local smart vester pro that we know and in short was telling us about a friend of his who passed in his early 50s of lung cancer tragically but the the point of email was is that they had invested a decent sized chunk of money for their son in a 529 in 2012 so here we are just 12 years later and it was an enormous sum of money now and what he said to us is they got 12 % return over that time period so over the last 12 years that 529 got 12 % return and I just wanted to highlight what Rachel said and John these are not numbers that we're pulling out of our ear to be shock jocks that's a real life story and I just want to underline that to say imagine the 5 % turning into 10 to 12 % that's not a fairy tale and to Rachel's point what you can do with that over the five I think that's legacy stuff, John, and it's really doable.

[425] So you're smart guy.

[426] You're incredibly disciplined.

[427] And I'll say being a Ramsey at heart too, being in the market, but also real estate, John, you mentioned that you have a couple of properties.

[428] And if, and I mean, that's, I mean, Dave's very honest on this show.

[429] That's where a lot of his, his money is.

[430] So there's, there's different proven ways to grow your money, whether investing traditionally, just in the stock market or paid for real estate.

[431] There's some great avenues out there to make your money work for you.

[432] And I think that that's a great goal.

[433] So thanks for the call, John.

[434] We appreciate it.

[435] Pretty awesome stuff there.

[436] Wow.

[437] Four million dollars in a savings account.

[438] What's your problem?

[439] It's pretty impressive.

[440] This is the Ramsey show.

[441] Hey, when you go against what society thinks is quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first, and that is totally okay.

[442] We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars.

[443] And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries.

[444] CHM isn't health insurance.

[445] They're a health cost -sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom.

[446] Find out more and join at CHministries .org slash budget.

[447] That's CHministries .org slash budget.

[448] welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is joining me this hour AAA 8255 -225 -2 -2 -25 -3 -2 -25 -5 -2 -25 all right we go to Atlanta Georgia now and Jimmy's there Jimmy how can we help hi thanks for taking my call you bet I've got I'm 63 my wife is 52 and we have a household net worth of approximately 2 .6, 2 .7.

[449] Well done.

[450] We own, I've got 400K sitting in a money market right now, and we've got five houses, including our primary, which is worth about $750.

[451] We owe $2 .20 on it, and it's at 4 .5 % interest, and all my rental properties are within a 15 -minute radius of my house, except for one that I've just completely remodeled.

[452] It's over an hour way.

[453] I'm considering selling, it doing a 1031 tax exchange and replacing it with a house near me or B selling it and paying my house off.

[454] I like B. Can I do a C?

[455] I like another option.

[456] I vote for B. Rachel wants to introduce C, Jimmy.

[457] Stand by.

[458] I would do both, Jimmy.

[459] Do you need the 400K at all for the new rental that you're going to buy?

[460] I mean, if you're going to do the exchange tax -wise, it's going to be this close to the same value is that what you're shooting for correct okay not touch the 400k no i would take i would take 220 out of your 401k or i'm sorry whoa hello hold on i would i would take i would take i would take 220 thousand dollars out of your 400 000 that's in the money market today and pay off my house and have 160 in there do the 1031 exchange with the property get another rental close by and there you go.

[461] You got a paid off house.

[462] You got five rental properties paid for with 160 in the bank, and you can build back up 200 grand a lot.

[463] You have.

[464] Rachel knows how to spend other people's money.

[465] I'm telling you.

[466] That is fabulous.

[467] I like C. Now I'm going with C. Would you not, Jimmy?

[468] Why aren't you wanting to pay off your house?

[469] You know, I just now thought of that, as you were saying.

[470] This is why you call Rachel Cruz right here, Jimmy.

[471] She knows how to spend your money better than you.

[472] All right?

[473] So then you just need a third party to be looking into the situation where you think, oh, I haven't thought of that.

[474] No, it's great.

[475] So that's what I would do, Jim.

[476] Now, what is that?

[477] Does that remove the house that's an hour away, though?

[478] Yeah, because he's going to, he's going to do that anyways.

[479] I agree with getting rid of that one.

[480] So he'll sell that, but at 1031 exchange, you can buy the same one and not have to pay capital gains.

[481] I'm telling you, Rachel, you take the rest of the show off.

[482] That was such good advice.

[483] I'm not sure you can top that.

[484] That's about as good as you're going to do, yeah, you can do both.

[485] What do you think, Jimmy?

[486] Well, sounds good Let's try that I'm just a little nervous about touching that 400K Because I've been broke before You got a little scarcity mentality in you Jimmy So here's here Promise me this I want you to do this I want you to do it this week I want you to pay off your house And in January Okay We'll go through an election All the craziness of the world And if you hate having a paid for house Jimmy I'm not going to give you permission, but you could go get a helock, right?

[487] Take some money out, put cash in the bank.

[488] Or we'll let you call Rachel up and say bad things about it on the show.

[489] Because my point is, Jimmy, you're not going.

[490] You wouldn't go back and borrow on your home at 4%.

[491] That's what this is.

[492] I mean, that's what it is.

[493] And Jimmy, one of the chances that you're going to be broke again, let's handicap it.

[494] Zero.

[495] I was kind of going to go there.

[496] So.

[497] How much is your rentals bringing in a month?

[498] All five of them.

[499] Approximately, once it's said done, about $2 ,500 each.

[500] So you're talking $10 ,000 a month.

[501] Jimmy, you've got more money buried in your backyard than most people will ever make.

[502] You're fine.

[503] There's zero chance of you going broke.

[504] All right.

[505] Well, I appreciate it.

[506] Yeah, she's going to get you a better return.

[507] That's what she's doing.

[508] And good for you, Jimmy.

[509] I mean, that's hard work, Ken. I know.

[510] He's done it.

[511] You live the American Dream.

[512] Are you?

[513] Where in Atlanta are you?

[514] North Woodstock?

[515] Yeah, yeah, I lived in Swanee for 11 years.

[516] I know where you're at.

[517] So, yeah, so you're a baby.

[518] I've never been in the market, mutual funds or anything, and I met with a couple of financial advisors that wanted me to sell the houses and put the money with them.

[519] And that was kind of a red flag with me. Yeah, Jimmy, you're fine.

[520] You got property in North Atlanta area.

[521] Come on, man. Yeah, but you don't have anything in the market, no Roth or 401K or okay, none, okay.

[522] Oh.

[523] I think the money market's paying 5 .34 right now.

[524] It is, yeah, and your rentals are great.

[525] I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, if someone comes in, it's like sell everything and do it our way.

[526] Does that change your opinion?

[527] No, it doesn't change my opinion, but I would say, though, Jimmy, to diversification is always good in general, right?

[528] So we just had a caller last segment where we kind of talked about this where two great places to invest long term is the market.

[529] I mean, on average 10 to 12 percent returns and real estate has great returns.

[530] both have can be volatile at different times but you write them out and you're good so i think you're fine jimmy i would maybe kind of just tinker on the idea putting some and like just a just an index that's what i'm asking you let's go back to your plan you've spent his 400 000 really quickly no i spent 200 000 no no but then you said takes the rest of that and get another rental right no no no i didn't no i'd say leave 160 in the money market oh good yeah yeah yeah because i was going to say, oh, I see what you did.

[531] Yeah.

[532] All right.

[533] So my question is, why I'm not paying capital gains.

[534] Of course, I hate capital gains.

[535] It gives me a rash just saying the two words.

[536] I'm going to have to calamine all over up to the after the break here.

[537] But the question is, shouldn't he put some of that in the investment?

[538] Shouldn't you invest some of that money?

[539] That's what I'm wondering, Jimmy, is, I mean, again, you're going to be fine, but I do think diversification is great.

[540] So if you did want to look into and do some research and find someone that doesn't gross you out as a financial advisor.

[541] Check out a SmartVister Pro.

[542] And again, I would not go.

[543] Have the conversation.

[544] I would not sell all your houses and put it in the market like this person said.

[545] I would not do that.

[546] But maybe there's an element that you have some good cash or maybe you take a percentage and just put some in the market.

[547] Just again, the diversification spreads around risk.

[548] And it's, it's, you know, it's always a good thing in general.

[549] Jimmy, you're getting a call.

[550] All right.

[551] Jimmy, we're going to let you.

[552] I think we're great.

[553] Jimmy, I appreciate the call.

[554] I think that's awesome.

[555] Got a call on line, too, Jimmy.

[556] Jimmy is a busy man. Yeah, you got a tenant on line too.

[557] The gutter, it fell off this morning.

[558] We're going to let him take care of that.

[559] That's great.

[560] I love the, like, 1992 -era phone ring.

[561] That was interesting to me as well.

[562] I bet it was a landline.

[563] It may have been a fax.

[564] No, didn't faxes have different rings than that?

[565] Yeah, it was just a bad joke.

[566] Okay, but I really love, okay, back -to -back calls.

[567] I love this example.

[568] And I bet first generation.

[569] I wish I'd ask both of them.

[570] I know we should have.

[571] But here's the thing I want to point out.

[572] I want your take on this.

[573] I'm teeing you up because you were talking to Neil Cavuto today.

[574] You're the big shot.

[575] All right.

[576] Everybody's excited about the five plus plus percent.

[577] But that's like going to be that way forever.

[578] Right now, because the Fed has raised rates steadily, everybody's getting that really fat percentage.

[579] They're like 5 percent here.

[580] Oh, on the money.

[581] I just want to point out that the long -term play for a sizable chunk of money is not your money market account.

[582] That's correct, yes.

[583] That rate's not going to be that high.

[584] The benefit of rates being high, the benefit and the downside, right?

[585] The downside is that rates are high, so meaning when you borrow one money, it's going to be higher.

[586] That's why mortgage rates are crazy.

[587] If you go get a car loan right now, I mean, everything is just high percentage when you're borrowing that interest.

[588] But on the flip, wonderful side, those of us that are saving in things like a money market or high -yield savings, we're getting higher returns than ever.

[589] I mean, usually it's like 2%.

[590] Right.

[591] It was up to six at one point, and our high -yield savings, I'm like, this is crazy.

[592] But to your point, it's not going to be like that forever, right?

[593] Things are going to shift, and as the Fed and the rates start to change, you know, we're going to see some shifts.

[594] So, yes, your long -term play for building wealth is not going to be in a high -yield savings account or a money market account.

[595] The stock market is up big time for the year.

[596] I mean, we had that one big, scary day where most people who aren't veterans or don't listen to the Ramsey show, freaked out.

[597] and then it's back and it's just fantastic yeah and so uh the the the compound interest is your friend it is your friend it is your friend it is your friend and that's what we're preaching you've got to be diversified diversification is the key that's what we teach david's taught that for decades any of the smart vester pros uh that you can get access to in your areas for our larger audience listening and watching right now if they aren't giving you the strategy that we talk about walk away, but they will.

[598] And I'm telling you that diversification over the long haul, it is.

[599] And it's 15 % of your income into retirement.

[600] That's right.

[601] That's what we're talking about.

[602] 15 % once you're debt free and you have an emergency fund.

[603] And then anything extra you have, put it at your house, once your house sells, then looking into things like real estate, paid for real estate is that next step.

[604] So, but it's a great plan.

[605] And some people have been very successful.

[606] So great job with Jimmy.

[607] That was fun to watch you work, my friend.

[608] That was well played.

[609] All right, it's been a good hour.

[610] We've got to hop.

[611] This is the Ramsey show.

[612] Before we get to the next caller, I got some good news for you.

[613] Even when this portion of today's show runs out of time, there's still plenty more for you to tune into.

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[616] You never know what calls.

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[618] This is The Ramsey Show.

[619] Thrilled to have you with us, America.

[620] We're here to help you win in your life.

[621] We want you to win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships.

[622] That allows you to have peace and to live with great purpose.

[623] AAA 8255 -225 is the phone number, AAA 825 -2 -2 -25.

[624] I'm sitting alongside Rachel Cruz, and I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you this hour ready to coach some people up let's go to crystal now uh who's in the big apple new york city love the city crystal how can we help hi thank you so much for having me hello rachel hook and thank you i truly appreciate this opportunity and got to be here good what's going on your advice yeah so we are a family of sue my husband and i currently we recently have a combined income recently i mean in the last probably six to eight months of one hundred and ninety thousand growth yearly and we had 190 okay perfect yes and that would be gross okay so in that pandemic my husband I had the opportunity to buy our first house which we did two years later we decided to rent it out which we have we moved out and we bought a condo recently four months ago which we flipped and we were hoping just to continue on to this path.

[625] Recently, my husband came into an opportunity where he was offered a fully remote job, but it would be a serious cut in our income and I wouldn't be able to work as well because it would be back home in the Dominican Republic, which our initial goal when we came here eight years ago was to hopefully be back home with our family.

[626] So funny is that the cut is a big time for living in New York because it would be down to $60 ,000, gross.

[627] And here in New York, the lifestyle that we are having right now, our expenses being at $8 ,000 a month won't make it.

[628] So even if he keeps the $60K and I stay with mine, both of us won't be able to, you know, make ends meet in New York until we finally.

[629] get rid of our debt or probably sell both of our properties.

[630] So what we would like your advice would be what would be the wisest choice in this case.

[631] Our rental income right now is on a month to month and it's $4 ,000 a month and where we're at now, that house, sorry, has a 2 .9 % interest and we owe $3 .85.

[632] What's it worth?

[633] Right now, I estimate about $500, $5 .50 ,000.

[634] All right, let's pause for a minute because you gave us a lot of details.

[635] I know.

[636] No, no, no. No, you did a wonderful job.

[637] Wonderful job.

[638] My question is, what would you need to make to live comfortably in the DR?

[639] We're going to put the debt aside because we need to remove the debt regardless of where we're living.

[640] But what would you need to live comfortably in the DR?

[641] So $60 ,000 would be the young comfortable.

[642] That's where.

[643] year.

[644] That's what I was doing.

[645] And then what could you do in the DR?

[646] Well, I definitely, my family have small businesses over there, so I can definitely pitch in, but that would be something that would have to start from scratch.

[647] Well, hold on a second.

[648] I don't know about that.

[649] What do you do now?

[650] Well, I currently work for a retirement company, for a principal.

[651] Are there any retirement companies in the DR?

[652] Yeah.

[653] Yes and no. Okay, here's my point.

[654] You have a lot of transferable experience.

[655] And I think it's probably valuable that you're coming from the states with that experience.

[656] And you've got a lot of connections in the DR, true or false.

[657] So this idea, this notion that your only option is to go work for your family's small businesses and start from zero.

[658] I think that's not the right notion.

[659] I think it's an incorrect notion.

[660] Would you agree with that?

[661] I would say so, yes.

[662] It depends where we live too.

[663] I get it.

[664] But my point is, is what's keeping you from going to the DR and he takes this job, but he does it there?

[665] Or are they saying they don't want somebody on site?

[666] They're only wanting a remote worker.

[667] So what's keeping us here is that we have the debt and we cannot leave with his job only and pay off the debt that we have now.

[668] And we would have to either, we cannot rent this condo that we just bought because we bought it at a 5 % down payment.

[669] Okay, so let me jump in on that.

[670] I'm going to tell you to sell that anyway.

[671] you guys don't need that right now you're in debt you need to sell it and take whatever money you can make from that yeah how much would you make off that sell how much would you make that is that is for this condo we just bought it three months ago and we bought it at market price market value so we are gonna we either are going to go negative or just go clean because we put in about 30 to 40k to make it nice okay okay and you I thought you told me earlier that it was worth more than you...

[672] Are you talking about your current home?

[673] Well, that's the house.

[674] That's the house.

[675] How much can you get for the house if you sell the house?

[676] So if I sell the house, I would get like a $500, $550.

[677] I can push it to more, but I don't want to...

[678] No, no, no. What would you clear?

[679] Yeah, what would you clear with what you owe?

[680] So for the house only, so for the single family house that I have rented, if I sell it, I can probably have $150K to $130.

[681] Okay, and how much other...

[682] What other debt do you guys have?

[683] So currently we have around $90 ,000 in credit cards.

[684] I would include the loans that we did to put this condo and plus some renovation that we did to the other house as well.

[685] So in total, we only owe $0 .90.

[686] Okay.

[687] So if you sell the house, sell the house, you clear $150, use that to pay off the $90, right?

[688] So you got $60 ,000 over here.

[689] So I'm trying to understand, Crystal.

[690] So you guys want to be in the DR, right?

[691] Isn't that what you're, that's what you're wanting?

[692] Are you wanting to stay in New York for longer?

[693] No, we do actually want to go to the DR.

[694] Okay.

[695] You go.

[696] So then why don't you go?

[697] Why don't you do that?

[698] And I would not live in the, and I would sell the condo too.

[699] Me too.

[700] You may have to wait a year for capital gains and all that.

[701] Make sure you look into that.

[702] But I mean, I would go.

[703] Sell it all.

[704] You said you would live comfortably off of his 60 in the DR.

[705] Yeah.

[706] So you don't even have to work now.

[707] necessarily.

[708] I mean, I would do something, but you're fine.

[709] And you have no debt if you do what Rachel told you to do.

[710] So that's the whole point of our line of questioning.

[711] If you want to go to the DR.

[712] What makes you not want to do that?

[713] Or what makes you not do that plan?

[714] So the only thing that I would say is since we never put any work in the Dominican Republic buying houses or even buying, we would have to start from scratch.

[715] So yes, we would pay the debt, but we would be on zero dollars.

[716] You'd have 60 grand.

[717] How much is real estate in the DR?

[718] How much to buy a house there?

[719] Well, it can cost $200 ,000, $300 ,000.

[720] Yeah, but you're both living comfortably.

[721] You said you could live beyond comfortably off of his 60.

[722] Let's say you make 40.

[723] You guys aren't starting from scratch.

[724] You'd be able to save up for a nice down payment very, very quickly with no debt.

[725] Yeah, you could rent in the DR for a year, save up.

[726] And you'll have that 60 grand, which I want that to be part of your emergency fund.

[727] But you've got a jumpstart on a great down payment for a house.

[728] You need 5 % is what we recommend.

[729] well in the DR they don't have 5 % is 30 % down again you're still fine and they don't have but even if you had to but even if you had to rent Crystal in the DR for two years three years that'd be okay right I mean it's where you guys want to be yeah I mean I would do it I'd sell everything in New York I'd pay off the credit cards and I'd go to the DR he's got a 60 grand job it's awesome and then if you make anything on top of that that's just yeah I was just there it's a lovely country that's your dream why delay the We, Rachel and I can't figure out one reason why you would delay it.

[730] In fact, I think you put it at risk.

[731] The more you mess around with this current financial situation.

[732] Get out of this deal and get home.

[733] My goodness, this is a no -brainer.

[734] I love this idea.

[735] Ken, you're going to move with you, Chris.

[736] I'm moving with you.

[737] I love the DR.

[738] This is the Ramses show.

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[761] Download every dollar for free on the app store or Google Play.

[762] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[763] I'm Ken Coleman.

[764] Rachel Cruz is alongside, excited that you were with us, taking your questions about your money, your income, and your relationships.

[765] AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[766] Jim is up in Phoenix, Arizona.

[767] Jim, how can we help today?

[768] Hi there.

[769] So I've been working with RV rentals for the past two years, and I have no debt.

[770] I'm looking to maybe, well, here's a situation.

[771] So I've been managing.

[772] a subcontract for another guy in town.

[773] So he works for basically Cruise America.

[774] I manage the RVs for him.

[775] He makes the commission checks.

[776] He wants to get rid of the subcontract.

[777] I'm looking to take it over.

[778] But if I'm not able to take over this subcontract, not able to find a good commercial location to run it out of, I was thinking about kind of running my own rental business because I've been doing this for a couple years now.

[779] I kind of know the ins and out of the RV business.

[780] I was thinking about maybe buying my first RV with cash, renting it out.

[781] and then once I have enough money saved up from the profit from that, I could buy the next one and so on and so forth.

[782] So cash all the way through it?

[783] That would be the hope.

[784] What's the margin on that stuff, Jim?

[785] I don't know much about RVs and rentals and all of that when you, especially if you're the owner of it, what are the numbers around it?

[786] How much are they and how much could you rent it for?

[787] So I would probably want to go for something 2019 or newer, probably not brand new, Class C motorhome, we're looking about $70, well, let's say, $60 to $90 ,000 for each RV.

[788] What's the margin, though?

[789] That's what she's getting at.

[790] So what's the margin in this business?

[791] How often can you run it out?

[792] What do you think you'll make a year on it?

[793] The busy season is basically from, basically from May to September.

[794] It's about a six -month period, but 180 days out of the year, making about $150 an hour, or, excuse me, $150 a day.

[795] Um, so I think that works out to maybe about 30 grand a year for a single RV.

[796] Uh, and then margin after, you know, fixes, repairs, um, housekeeping, all the fun stuff that goes with rentals, uh, I think, I think it's about a 15, 20 % margin.

[797] Is what you make.

[798] Okay.

[799] Um, hmm.

[800] And, yeah, and this is something you, you want to do.

[801] I mean, I guess.

[802] I'm not a fan of it as a business model.

[803] Well, that's why I, I, I don't like that.

[804] Yeah.

[805] And the idea of owning an asset that's going down in value like plummeting year after year after year.

[806] I mean, when you get done with it, it's not like, oh, you have a pay, you have a real estate that's gone up.

[807] Yeah, you got to buy another one.

[808] It's got down, you know, and value.

[809] So, I mean, the numbers in my head.

[810] I mean, you've been doing it for two years.

[811] So honestly, Jim, you're from that standpoint, you know more than I do about this world.

[812] But it sounds like your investment could be better spent somewhere else, do you think?

[813] Well, perhaps, I guess.

[814] I mean, I don't know.

[815] I've done a lot of jobs, gone back and back and forth here and there, done this and that.

[816] And I actually, actually kind of like this industry.

[817] Okay.

[818] Well, again, I'm leaning towards it.

[819] Well, again, if you do it with cash.

[820] Yeah, there's no risk in it, right?

[821] Well, I mean, again, it's just the, you're burning through.

[822] So what's the life cycle of a, of an RV before you have to sell it for pennies on the dollar?

[823] Have you thought through that?

[824] Because to Rachel's point, you're not going into debt.

[825] And you said, I hope.

[826] So our deal is you're not going to go into debt for this.

[827] I think it would be catastrophically bad idea to go into debt for RV rentals.

[828] So the question is, what's the life cycle when you buy one of these things before you pruning?

[829] How many years can you get out of it?

[830] In other words, rental money.

[831] Yeah, I would say five is probably the max if you're buying it brand new.

[832] And then otherwise I would probably retire them at 130 ,000 miles.

[833] Okay, I could be to do my math wrong, Jim.

[834] So in that case, so if you bought a $70 ,000 one.

[835] Yeah.

[836] And you're making $30 on it a year.

[837] but you're only getting a 15, 20 % rate of return back, right?

[838] I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's 10 ,000.

[839] So in the five years.

[840] That would take seven years to recoup that 70 grand.

[841] I don't know mathematically if it makes sense.

[842] And Jim, I am sorry.

[843] That's why I've been digging.

[844] When I guess you could sell it eventually, but what it would be caught, what it would be worth in seven years?

[845] What are you going to sell it for in five years?

[846] Right.

[847] So if I bought it for 70, it'd probably be worth like 30.

[848] this is not in my mind a good business I'm not trying to be shark tank guy but I wouldn't invest in this I don't think it's I think I think for the margins plus all the stuff that Rachel just I mean it just doesn't feel right I know you feel like you would make 10 grand at the end of five years though right if the math is if the math is going through you buy it for 70 you're making 30 you make 15 to 20 % right 10 ,000 after five years that's 50 You sell it for 30.

[849] That's 80 ,000.

[850] So you put $70 ,000 into something, and after five years, you make $10 ,000 versus if you put $70 grand into an index fund.

[851] Do you know what I mean?

[852] I'm trying to help you make more money, make more money on your money.

[853] It's got a lot of risk associated with it, too.

[854] We're not even getting into that.

[855] And I'm not trying to be Mr. Droopy Dog, but wasn't that the name of that dog that always had the pouty attitude?

[856] droopy?

[857] Wasn't it, James?

[858] Somebody helped me out.

[859] She's too young.

[860] Snoopy was the Charlie Brown dog.

[861] No, not Snoopy.

[862] There was a dog named Droopy.

[863] Thank you.

[864] The audience, you know what I'm talking about.

[865] Okay, great.

[866] Here's the point.

[867] I'm not trying to be depressing, but Jim, there is so much risk associated with this.

[868] It's not a good business model.

[869] I'm out.

[870] I wouldn't do it.

[871] It's not even risk on my end.

[872] It's just the numbers as you just lay out the numbers.

[873] I said numbers plus risk.

[874] Okay.

[875] I'm saying all of it combined.

[876] We walk through the numbers.

[877] It's not a solid business model.

[878] And then on top of that, there's so much more risk with the things breaking down.

[879] I'm just saying it's not.

[880] I wouldn't do it, Jim.

[881] So sorry.

[882] Gosh, I know you were hoping for a better answer.

[883] No, I wanted an honest answer.

[884] So that's helpful.

[885] Yeah.

[886] Can I address something?

[887] I think that you think that this is the only thing you can do.

[888] Is that true?

[889] It's the thing I feel most comfortable doing right now, for sure.

[890] All right.

[891] I'm saying you're successful, you're making good money now and selling these things or whatever it is that you're in.

[892] I just, I want you to look for a better business idea.

[893] Don't be discouraged, is my point.

[894] Yeah.

[895] And I think the line of work you're in is fine.

[896] I think it's when you start going into the ownership route.

[897] That's where the numbers start to play out to be like, you know, if you're making a cut of the rental thing and that's your and that's your job, right?

[898] I mean, like that you're making money.

[899] You're not owning the asset.

[900] And I think because the asset goes down in value so fast.

[901] That's what makes it difficult.

[902] But to, But to your point, Ken, Jim, if you hang on the line, Christian can pick up.

[903] And I'm going to give you out your assessment.

[904] I'm going to give your assessment, my treat.

[905] Because honestly, Ken, or honestly, Ken, Jim, this assessment, I think it would be great.

[906] And I do think, even when you said it's what I'm comfortable doing, we all, you know, we do settle and comfortable.

[907] And not that you're not being successful or anything.

[908] I don't want to, like, downplay what you're doing right now in life, Jim.

[909] But this could be an interesting play to just say, hey, I wonder what else.

[910] is out there.

[911] I agree.

[912] And again, what I would do is 70 ,000.

[913] At the end of the day is the question, you know, and I just think you can make way more on that.

[914] You can.

[915] And Jim, here's the deal.

[916] The tool to get clear assessment comes with the book, find the work you're wired to do.

[917] This is going to help you ideate.

[918] And you just need some ideas to see what can I do from a skill set standpoint.

[919] What can I do from an enjoyment standpoint?

[920] And then there's where that idea, that money that you could invest and do far more.

[921] So we'd love to see you get a better business model, which was a greater rate of return on your time and the money that you're going to invest and a whole lot less risk.

[922] That's the goal.

[923] And I think you can find that, by the way.

[924] In fact, I know you can.

[925] So a great point, Rachel, to point out that we kind of do the thing we know because we go, well, at least I can do that.

[926] Yeah.

[927] And I want you to see what you can do.

[928] You know, it's interesting.

[929] And I'm not saying this is Jim specifically, but just in general, the idea of being comfortable.

[930] I read the comfort crisis, great book.

[931] Oh, Michael Easter.

[932] Yeah, where it's just, and it's so true.

[933] I'm like, we just, the idea of pain, the idea of change, to expand and become greater, it takes this level of like, oh my gosh, I have to like, you know, be uncomfortable and I have to do something that's outside of the box that's normal.

[934] But in order to continue to grow, sometimes we have to do that.

[935] And that's true with our money.

[936] I mean, that's true within our marriages and our parenting with our kids.

[937] I mean, every aspect, our careers, to continue to grow, you can't.

[938] stay comfortable because you do end up being stagnant.

[939] Fun question for you, 30 seconds until we go to break.

[940] You can handle this.

[941] You're a pro.

[942] If you couldn't do what you're doing now, what would be something that you would try that would make you uncomfortable?

[943] Favorite.

[944] Oh, that would make me uncomfortable.

[945] Oh, my gosh.

[946] You're interested by it, interested, but it'd be outside of your comfort zone.

[947] Oh, man. Oh, no. Gosh, I don't know, Ken. I was going to see, I want to be a political correspondent, but I don't know if I'd be uncomfortable doing that.

[948] What would make me uncomfortable?

[949] Be different, though.

[950] A little bit different.

[951] What about you?

[952] College basketball coach.

[953] It would make me uncomfortable.

[954] I've never coached.

[955] Okay.

[956] Other than just my kids.

[957] And that would be, that would be, that's good.

[958] That's good.

[959] Maybe doing a talk show with Ken Coleman.

[960] It'd be really uncomfortable.

[961] This is the Ransy show.

[962] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[963] Hey, good folks.

[964] The back -to -school madness is upon us.

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[969] Here's what I've learned.

[970] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[971] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[972] and I know that you have to do those same things too.

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[974] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

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[986] A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at ramsysolutions .com slash events.

[987] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[988] I'm Ken Coleman.

[989] Rachel Cruz is alongside.

[990] The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y -R -R -F -I.

[991] If you're in a default and situation with your private student loans, contact Y -R -R -R -R -E -F -Y.

[992] Now, obviously, we don't encourage letting your loans get into default.

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[999] in all states.

[1000] All right.

[1001] Today's question comes from Ava in Rhode Island.

[1002] After my undergraduate studies, which I did on scholarships, I was accepted until law school.

[1003] I graduated under the impression that I had about $80 ,000 in student loan debt.

[1004] I didn't know that my parents also took out a parent plus loan or loans.

[1005] And they now say that I owe an additional $75 ,000.

[1006] I admit that that part is my fault.

[1007] But when I was 18 years old, is when they did this and I didn't understand the ramifications of this type of loan.

[1008] I have opened a law practice in my hometown, which is small, so we only have two stoplights, so my income is very low.

[1009] My law license could be taken away if I default on student loan debt, and the monthly payment is about $800 just on the loans that I took out.

[1010] Should I allow my father's paycheck to be garnished for his part of the debt, or should my husband and I buckle down and take it on ourselves?

[1011] Wow.

[1012] Good night.

[1013] Yikes.

[1014] We're getting into the garnishing.

[1015] So that means it sounds like there's some tension and arguments about all of this.

[1016] So she didn't know her parents took out $75 ,000.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] And we hear this a lot, that either it's miscommunication or, you know, it's just done.

[1019] And there is no communication.

[1020] And then so, I mean, well, what's your take on the parent plus situation?

[1021] What's your take on what the parents owe versus her?

[1022] Well, I mean, it was for her degree, but it's under their name.

[1023] name.

[1024] I know.

[1025] And they didn't tell her.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] So do you have it?

[1028] I just want to know your opinion on that.

[1029] I mean, in this situation, I'd rather not get into a fight with the dad and have him come after his paycheck.

[1030] That's not going to make for a very nice Thanksgiving.

[1031] No. Yeah.

[1032] And you don't want, I mean, you hate to see relationships and over this stuff.

[1033] I get out of the small town and start making some real lawyer money is what I do.

[1034] I think that's the key.

[1035] I don't think you can afford to practice in your hometown.

[1036] I think you have to go somewhere else.

[1037] Make a lawyer kind of money.

[1038] And it's going to take a little while to get to get everything built up.

[1039] It's very doable.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] So I think the 80 grand is her portion that she knew about.

[1042] What do you think about the 75?

[1043] I know.

[1044] I mean, the parents signed it, right?

[1045] I know.

[1046] I'm looking for an opinion over here.

[1047] I've got one.

[1048] I mean, I think it's the parents' responsibility at that point.

[1049] If you take it out on an 18 -year -old and you don't tell her, that's on you.

[1050] I agree.

[1051] I agree.

[1052] I agree.

[1053] That's tough.

[1054] The audience saying out there in the lobby?

[1055] They agree with you, Rachel.

[1056] We got thumbs up.

[1057] I love this audience, James.

[1058] This is the most active audience that I've been with in months and months and months.

[1059] They're giving us the thumbs up, thumbs down.

[1060] It's real -time focus group right here.

[1061] And these are Ramsey people.

[1062] So, Rachel, I agree.

[1063] The sticky part is, sounds like mom and dad are not in agreement.

[1064] Well, and I wonder, so she's after law school, right?

[1065] So she could be in early 30.

[1066] This could have been 18 years ago when all this was going on, right?

[1067] Can I go back to the last?

[1068] audience real quick.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] Audience.

[1072] Do you sick the loan people on them and let them garnish Pops wages?

[1073] Wow.

[1074] We're getting, we're getting.

[1075] I got mostly yeses.

[1076] One guy says no. Wow.

[1077] Okay.

[1078] Because apparently it's going to be an ugly Thanksgiving anyway.

[1079] So I think I'm siding with the audience.

[1080] Man. Okay.

[1081] I like this real time focus group stuff.

[1082] Because I, here's why I'm, I'll be honest with you all bailed me out because that's where I was going to go.

[1083] Uh, At first, I said no, but then I was like, ooh, I started thinking through it.

[1084] I don't want to be heartless.

[1085] I know.

[1086] And I always wonder about these situations because she's 18 when this happens.

[1087] So maybe what if they had told her and she forgot because it was two separate comfort?

[1088] You don't know what I'm saying?

[1089] I don't think they did.

[1090] The way she was, of course, this is why we need these people on the phone.

[1091] But bottom line is, she throws it out there should my husband and I take it on.

[1092] So she's got some character.

[1093] This is a woman of character here.

[1094] So, I don't know.

[1095] But it was taken out in secret, so no. I don't think you owe it in secret.

[1096] I agree.

[1097] All right.

[1098] Tough one there.

[1099] Ryan is up next in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

[1100] Ryan, how can we help today?

[1101] Hey, Mr. Coleman.

[1102] Hey, Ms. Cruz.

[1103] Thanks for everything you guys do.

[1104] We really do appreciate it.

[1105] I just had a question.

[1106] It's a little bit of money, but mainly just career -based.

[1107] I used to work in media, TV, everything, and then I've worked in sales.

[1108] Recently, I'm currently a senior lead generation special.

[1109] for a software company.

[1110] I've been here about three months, and in the city that I'm in the school district that's right nearby, I have friends that work there and everything.

[1111] They highlighted a job that was a high school media teacher position, something I've always kind of thought about was teaching, getting back in media, helping the next generation, but was never serious about it, and then they approached me with it.

[1112] I decided to interview, and then yesterday they offered me the job.

[1113] So now I'm having to decide between something really difficult, because I've only been at my job three months right now.

[1114] So I'd definitely be burning them if I leave, and that doesn't really fit well with me. But there is more of the long -term potential, I think, for the other job being back in media, helping kind of the youth of, you know, of the area pouring back into the community.

[1115] So just kind of looking for any sort of expertise or guidance on kind of weighing that option.

[1116] Yeah.

[1117] Okay.

[1118] I'm going to ask you questions and let you decide, okay?

[1119] Do you pay attention to sports?

[1120] Do you like sports at all?

[1121] Yes.

[1122] Okay.

[1123] Give me me an example of your favorite team?

[1124] The Oklahoma Sooners and the Green Bay Packers, either one.

[1125] Okay, good.

[1126] Let's take the Packers because it's a professional thing, okay?

[1127] Sure.

[1128] We've got thumbs down from the audience, Ryan.

[1129] Well, didn't like your sports choices, but that's okay.

[1130] You all behave yourself.

[1131] I'll tell you when I want your opinion, all right?

[1132] You all just sit there and be quiet.

[1133] All right.

[1134] I'm kidding, of course, sort of.

[1135] So when a free agent, okay, leaves the Packers.

[1136] All right?

[1137] So another team comes to them and says, we want you.

[1138] you, you're not happy about it when one of your top players leaves, are you?

[1139] No. But you don't think that they're doing anything immoral or that they're a jerk.

[1140] They're taking an opportunity, another team won them.

[1141] They're going to pay them a little bit more money, and they feel like they can go play for another team and win a Super Bowl.

[1142] You may not like it, but you understand it.

[1143] True or false?

[1144] True.

[1145] I think that's your situation.

[1146] This opportunity fell in your lap.

[1147] Can we say that?

[1148] Yes.

[1149] You weren't out looking for it.

[1150] You weren't being a jerk.

[1151] You're not being unethical?

[1152] There's nothing illegal in this move, is there?

[1153] No, no, definitely not.

[1154] So here's my point.

[1155] Yes, they're not going to be thrilled that you're leaving them after three months.

[1156] But that's not your problem.

[1157] This is an opportunity to kind of express your journey here.

[1158] I can make some moves here.

[1159] I can get a little bit further, faster.

[1160] This sets me up for the long term based on how you've described it.

[1161] I think you sit down whether you tell them that.

[1162] You go, listen, I didn't plan.

[1163] for this.

[1164] This is an opportunity that is presented itself that I can't pass up.

[1165] I am so sorry to leave you after only three months, but I have to take this opportunity.

[1166] And if they call you bad names or if they treat you in a poor way, you're just going to have to be a big boy and handle that.

[1167] But I think you have to make the decision that's right for you long term.

[1168] And because of that, I think it's the right move.

[1169] Sure.

[1170] If I can't ask one other thing with it, it is about a $20 ,000 to $30 ,000 difference.

[1171] And I know I've recently gotten into, you know, listening to you guys and all the, yes, it'd be less.

[1172] For how long?

[1173] Well, within teaching, it's all pretty segmented.

[1174] So I'd be going from about, I'm at 75 right now, and the job would be 55.

[1175] Now, there is commission into my job, but just base salary.

[1176] I'm currently 75.

[1177] What do you want to do?

[1178] What do you want to do with your life?

[1179] Where do you want to be 15, 20, 25 years from now?

[1180] That is the biggest thing.

[1181] Currently, it's this job with everything it provides, but I would not be doing this job, two, three, five years from now.

[1182] Right.

[1183] Can you live on the teacher salary?

[1184] Oh, definitely.

[1185] Of course he can.

[1186] I'm very good with that.

[1187] Well, I'm just making sure that he's not in some crazy position where he's like, no, I have all these.

[1188] No, I know, but I mean, we did the largest millionaire study ever in the third largest group of net worth millionaires are teachers, so it can be done.

[1189] I'm not saying it can be done.

[1190] I'm making sure Ryan specifically can do it for his circumstances.

[1191] Of course he can do it.

[1192] We don't know until we ask.

[1193] I wasn't talking to you.

[1194] I was encouraging him.

[1195] I'm only about one month.

[1196] By the time I was leaving, if I went to this new job at the beginning of October, I would have just hit my six months of the three to six months of overall money.

[1197] You're great.

[1198] You're great, Ryan.

[1199] You got one shot on this globe.

[1200] Do the thing that makes your heartbeat.

[1201] And I was not talking.

[1202] As long as it's not a pattern in life of jumping jobs every three months.

[1203] You know what I mean?

[1204] There's no issue.

[1205] This is not a job job.

[1206] This is a young man who knows his role and he's ready to do it.

[1207] Go, Ryan.

[1208] We need great teachers.

[1209] Go and be an everyday millionaire.

[1210] You can do it.

[1211] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1212] Hey, it's Rachel Cruz and I'm pumped to tell you that the new 2025 Ramsey Goal Planner is here.

[1213] With all new encouragement and guidance from Dr. John Deloney, Jade Warshaw and me, you'll get what you need to stay focused and organized to go after the life you want, financially, relationally and spiritually.

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[1217] Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

[1218] I'm Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruz joins me. Folks, stuff is moving in the real estate market.

[1219] What's going to happen?

[1220] We don't know.

[1221] We don't know 100%, but things are moving.

[1222] And a lot of you're going, should we wait, should we wait, rates are down.

[1223] we've got a little bit Jerome Powell saying time to start cutting again we'll see how that affects the mortgage rates that's coming I think in September so here's the point don't sit around and wait wait wait and try to time all these rates if you're ready to buy or sell and you know what you're doing go for it and if you don't know what you're doing and you do know what you're doing you've got to have one of the Ramsey trusted real estate professionals it's the only way to find an agent you can trust to keep you on track and we've got the top agents in your area, we trust them, we vetted them, and they're going to guide you through what may be for many of us, the most important investment and financial decision you ever make.

[1224] Go to ramsysolutions .com slash agent.

[1225] That's ramsysolutions .com slash agent.

[1226] To Chattanooga, Tennessee is where we go.

[1227] Nina is there.

[1228] Nina, how can we help?

[1229] Hi, yes.

[1230] Thank you both for having me on the show.

[1231] So I'm just going to go straight into it.

[1232] I'm 24 years old.

[1233] I have two kids, an eight -year -old and a four -year -old.

[1234] And I just came across the Ramsey show about like two weeks ago.

[1235] So I've been on my own since, like, I was 16.

[1236] Obviously, I had my first child when I was young.

[1237] And never really thought about, like, I've just been surviving my whole life to recently.

[1238] And I'm just kind of overwhelmed.

[1239] And I want my kids to be, I want to be able to be financially free for my kids and I just feel like it's kind of hard to do that when I solely take care of everything like rent do you know bills and all that it's a lot so um I'm just needing some guidance and how to like budget or where to start um I know the baby steps uh they just start off with the emergency fund and um out of the thousand I only have 300 saved but then again I feel like it's just I don't know how to budget with like the bills and everything and I'm just kind of lost.

[1240] Well, number one, you, that feeling and that emotion is completely normal, especially the story you laid out for us.

[1241] I'm like, yeah, I mean, you have, you have two kids, you're a single mom, you're young, and you're trying to figure all this out.

[1242] So I, I applaud you so much, though, for the work that you're doing.

[1243] I mean, that is so difficult, it's being a single parent.

[1244] So, um, you're doing, you're doing a great job.

[1245] So, So from the money side, where are you at?

[1246] How much are you making a year and how much debt do you have?

[1247] Yes.

[1248] So I make about $45 ,000 a year.

[1249] And with my debt, I have, I'm $12 ,000 in debt.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] And so I'm going to break it down for you with the debt.

[1252] I have in off the loans, I have $10 ,000.

[1253] You know, I made a mistake in 2019.

[1254] I bought a new car and it got repoed in $20.

[1255] 20.

[1256] And so they cut it down from 17 to 10 ,000.

[1257] And in credit cards, I have 2 ,000.

[1258] And then I have about 530 in collections.

[1259] Okay.

[1260] Now with the $10 ,000 car, is that from the repossession?

[1261] And so you don't have the car or is this on a new car when you said the 10 ,000?

[1262] It's from the repossession.

[1263] So the car I have now, I don't, you know, it's paid off.

[1264] I bought a cheap car.

[1265] Good, good.

[1266] Good for you.

[1267] That's great.

[1268] Yes.

[1269] But, you know, my driving history is pretty bad.

[1270] So my insurance is at like $515 a month.

[1271] Okay.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] So it's, it's, that's all the that I have.

[1274] Okay.

[1275] So what are you bringing home a month?

[1276] Is it around $3 ,500?

[1277] Yes.

[1278] Okay.

[1279] And have you done a written budget?

[1280] Are you able to, when you look at, do you, like, do you know throughout the month, hey, beginning of the month, I know how much my lights are going to be, you know, relatively water, my rents, my, you know, all of that, my food.

[1281] Like, do you have you done a detailed budget yet?

[1282] So, yeah.

[1283] So my light kind of, like, fluctuates in my water, but my rent is about $7 .80, you know, right now my light and water, it came out to like $500.

[1284] Okay.

[1285] When you list out all, when you list out your food, your rent, your utilities, and gas for your car and insurance, how much does that come out a month?

[1286] Do you know that number off the top of your head?

[1287] Off the top of my head, no, I don't.

[1288] But I know it's like close to what I make.

[1289] It's close to that, okay, to that $3 ,500.

[1290] Yeah, okay.

[1291] Yes.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] So in your case, Nina, what we find with money so often is that there's really two ways that it flows.

[1294] It flows in from the income standpoint.

[1295] and then it flows out with expenses and everything you've listed to me and as we've talked in this conversation, my assumption is there's no outlandish cuts to probably be made.

[1296] I mean, I mean, maybe some restaurants here or there, but you're not, you know, you're not going on vacation on credit cards or doing, you know, those kind of things.

[1297] This is pretty, your bills, your basic bills, you're squeaking by, which means on the expense side of it, there's probably not a ton to cut.

[1298] I would, I would, I would challenge you just to look, because even 30, 40, from a random subscription or, you know, some restaurants.

[1299] Like if there's any amount of money you can squeeze out, do that.

[1300] But I think your biggest upplay is your income side.

[1301] What do you do for a living?

[1302] I'm an operations coordinator, so I work in logistics.

[1303] Oh, nice.

[1304] So what do you think is the next rung or two up the ladder in your current workplace?

[1305] Is there even a rung or two above you that is reachable?

[1306] So I'm not going to lie This is actually one of my first good jobs I was I actually was a dropout so I didn't finish school So I don't really have an education Neither do I Nina I'm a college dropout Well did you get a GED?

[1307] Do you mean even high school?

[1308] Yes you left school You left home at 16 Did you get your GED?

[1309] Yes ma 'am I did good for you That's great So okay I hear what you're saying So you're kind of going Ken I'm not even thinking about the next to rung on the ladder.

[1310] I'm thrilled to be on this one.

[1311] And I'm not trying to get you, but I'm just wondering, now that I know that, how long you've been in that role?

[1312] So I just, I just started.

[1313] I'm like hitting four months already.

[1314] So, you know, I'm very blessed to be a part of the team.

[1315] But before, you know, I had like jobs working in the carpet mill.

[1316] So this is actually a very stable job for me. And all right.

[1317] So let me switch gears on you real quick.

[1318] Okay.

[1319] Back to the because I think right now, I think you could probably pick up a side gig.

[1320] is it possible do you have somebody go watch the kiddos and you could pick up maybe a 15 or 20 more hours a week for a season a small season but a season so um i know it takes a village to raise a kid but uh i don't have a village you don't have anybody yeah all right let me say from home there's a lot of you know remote stuff can you do some customer service stuff at night when the kids are in bed this is all by phone or by computer yes i can um i do sometimes work from home so All right.

[1321] So with that in mind, I want to get back to the budget thing.

[1322] And by the way, before I forget, I want to tell you this, we're going to put you on hold in a minute when we're finished and we're going to get you a session, our treat, we're going to pay for it with a financial coach.

[1323] Because I think you need a little bit more time.

[1324] And I think when they walk you through penny by penny where you're spending, I want someone to be hands on.

[1325] And if you'll promise me, Nina, that you'll let them coach you and show you how to do your first real budget, I want to give you a session with them.

[1326] Will you do that?

[1327] I will.

[1328] Because listen, let me tell you something, Nina.

[1329] Listen, I'm not betting against a single mama.

[1330] And you've got what it takes.

[1331] You've got a good job.

[1332] I think you're making enough money.

[1333] I think you've got to see where your money's going.

[1334] And I think some side hustles to pay this small amount of money off.

[1335] I know it seems like a mountain, but 12K is very doable.

[1336] But here's what I want to encourage you on, okay?

[1337] I think that you've got to treat your budget like it's a full -time job.

[1338] And I think you're going to be surprised how much money you can find.

[1339] And then pay that off.

[1340] And we'll give you every dollar premium to, Nina.

[1341] That's our budgeting app to do that and FPU and stuff.

[1342] So we'll load you up for sure, Nina.

[1343] But I got a quick question.

[1344] Okay.

[1345] How much money, Nina, just ballpark.

[1346] I'm not holding you to this.

[1347] How much money if we handed it to you every month would you think would make the difference right now?

[1348] Giving you some breathing room.

[1349] How much?

[1350] Ballpark.

[1351] In order to pay off my debt.

[1352] No, no. No, no. Just to be able to have some breathing room.

[1353] What's that amount of money that you go, Ken, if you gave me this much a month, what's the number?

[1354] Probably, okay, so I make about 35, so I guess another thousand.

[1355] Another thousand.

[1356] Okay.

[1357] So here's the point.

[1358] I want you just think about through the debt payments and then getting a budget that $1 ,000 a month.

[1359] All right, real quick, for the rest of you who are not on radio, radio audience, we're going to stay with you.

[1360] For the rest of you on YouTube and podcast, the show is.

[1361] done for you unless you go to the Ramsey app and that's where you get the rest of the calls and we got some good ones lined up so head over there you can search for the Ramsey network in the app store hey you're still here what are you doing you do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey network app right all you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey network in the app store Google Play Store or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free yep you heard me right for free then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show.

[1362] Bada bing, bada boom.

[1363] All right, I'm getting out of here.

[1364] Enjoy.

[1365] We'll see you on the app.