Race to 35: Day 5 + Andrew Huberman

[0] Okay, hello.

[1] Oh, you're in a cute outfit.

[2] It's like a person today.

[3] That's good.

[4] It's exciting.

[5] Okay, I love that for you.

[6] At the very end, of course.

[7] Oh, it's not even over.

[8] It's not over yet.

[9] It's not over, but we're more than halfway through.

[10] We are.

[11] We're day seven.

[12] I know.

[13] Which feels kind of wild to say.

[14] This is how we knew it was going to go, though.

[15] I mean, also it's not over, but we were like, it's going to be day one, and then all of a sudden it's going to be day seven or eight or nine.

[16] Yeah.

[17] Yeah, and it's day seven of nine and then the trigger shot and then retrieval, technically.

[18] Yeah.

[19] I had a really good conversation with my Uber driver on my way to my appointment that I didn't tell you about.

[20] I recorded it as a voice note so we can have it because, I mean, she was super big mom energy.

[21] She was like, oh, are you late for something?

[22] I was like, well, I have a doctor's appointment.

[23] She was like, oh, for what?

[24] And I was like, oh, I'm just getting my ex -frozen.

[25] And she was like, oh, my God, I tell every woman in my Uber.

[26] She's like, I know it's crossing boundaries, but any woman in her.

[27] or 20s, I'm like, do a go fund me on your 30th birthday, do an egg freezing party.

[28] Everyone can donate what they want and do it when you're 30 because she says, I'm of this generation that we had to have babies.

[29] So we had babies with assholes or people we didn't really like and we're no longer with them or we're stuck in that relationship or it's too late.

[30] And so she said, there's this amazing technology.

[31] Women should use it.

[32] And so we had this whole conversation.

[33] I recorded part of it.

[34] And she was like, here's my phone number.

[35] Oh my gosh.

[36] I'm a mom.

[37] Like her son is sick.

[38] So that's why she.

[39] She does Uber to make extra money for the co -pays.

[40] And she was like, I kind of see myself as like an Uber mom.

[41] Oh, I love that.

[42] Isn't that sweet?

[43] Tessa.

[44] I think it's easy to get pretty negative about it, but it's like incredibly miraculous that there's this technology out there.

[45] It's incredible.

[46] And if you think about it, we use technology to enhance our lives all of the time.

[47] Like there's something, I don't know if you've talked about it with your mom, but my mom is like staunchly feminist and everything and she thinks it's so great.

[48] But she is like, wow, like we had turkey basters.

[49] She is still kind of wrapping her head around the technology.

[50] So it can feel unnatural, basically, is what I mean.

[51] And I know I felt a little bit this way where I feel like I'm doing it the wrong way.

[52] Am I doing it the wrong way because I'm brushing with an electric toothbrush because it'll make my teeth better?

[53] Am I doing it the wrong way?

[54] Because I'm using an iPhone instead of a rotary phone.

[55] Exactly.

[56] I mean, we might be doing that the wrong way, to be honest.

[57] We should be using rotary phones.

[58] I think we should reverse that.

[59] But I want the GPS and I want the part where.

[60] I know where I am at all times.

[61] How was your appointment?

[62] Okay, yeah.

[63] So we just both came from appointments this morning.

[64] I feel like every day we're there.

[65] Get blood drawn and dildos.

[66] My appointment was good.

[67] It was good.

[68] So last time it was looking like five.

[69] Okay.

[70] There's a few more that have like grown in size.

[71] Me too.

[72] Yeah.

[73] That's great.

[74] So maybe they'll be more than five.

[75] And maybe there won't.

[76] Like again, it's all dependent on what they can actually retrieve.

[77] from inside you.

[78] Anyway, so at least I was a little hopeful.

[79] There's some other ones in the game now that weren't in the game a few days ago.

[80] So we like that.

[81] It's like the stock market.

[82] They're like, yeah, you have a lot of sevens and 12s.

[83] And I was like, what does that even mean?

[84] And by the way, I only have 20.

[85] I don't have 27.

[86] See, that's why like I don't ask for things.

[87] I won't remember.

[88] But she was like, oh, you have a lot of sevens and threes.

[89] And I was like, what does that mean?

[90] And so it's that they have to get to a certain size in order to be retrievable, which I didn't understand.

[91] And so some of them might have more grow that they're like, oh, this is a two.

[92] This probably won't make it.

[93] But it might turn into a, we don't know.

[94] Exactly.

[95] So that's why when I went the other day, there was four, they were small.

[96] And she was like, normally by now they would have responded.

[97] So basically she was kind of pessimistic about this.

[98] But then now they've grown.

[99] Oh, my God, look at you.

[100] So we'll see.

[101] We'll see.

[102] Also, a couple things.

[103] Well, first of all, we almost got final destination last night.

[104] We almost died in like the most you way possible because we were doing shots.

[105] We're like getting good at shots.

[106] So it felt swift.

[107] Yes.

[108] Easy.

[109] We were even like having conversations about other things kind of at the same time, which has never happened before.

[110] We have to be fully focused.

[111] So you, thank God, are on top of content.

[112] You're on top of social.

[113] You're good at it.

[114] And so you have a camera rolling while we do our shots.

[115] But my tripod is not in the best shape.

[116] She's been through it.

[117] The tripod is a disaster.

[118] And like it was wobbly when you were trying to set it up, but it was like, okay.

[119] And then all of a sudden, in the middle, it just comes crashing down on us.

[120] And I was like, if there was a needle in one of us right now, we would have been dead.

[121] Dead for sure.

[122] It wasn't just like came crashing down slowly.

[123] For some reason, it whacked.

[124] I can't believe my phone didn't break.

[125] And you had just done your shot.

[126] Yeah.

[127] It wasn't like, oh, we're preparing.

[128] It was like in between shots.

[129] Oh, God.

[130] I'm so sorry you have to be in my vicinity of chaos.

[131] No, I love it.

[132] But it was very much like, oh, this is for sure how we died trying to do a TikTok video.

[133] Yes, a time lapse of our egg freezing.

[134] And then we were laughing.

[135] We were like, this would be the news report.

[136] Two influencers dead.

[137] This is their last video.

[138] And it's like, egg freezing.

[139] They're making an egg freezing podcast.

[140] It's like the dumbest death.

[141] It's so dumb.

[142] It's so 2022.

[143] I'm so happy you're feeling back to norms.

[144] I know I say this.

[145] You have been such an invaluable and instrumental part.

[146] Before I came to your apartment, I was in my bed crying.

[147] Last night.

[148] Last night, yes.

[149] And again, I just was like, whatever, I'm going to ride the wave.

[150] So I'm just going to cry in bed.

[151] And then I left you a voice note because I was mixed up with the medication.

[152] And I got.

[153] And I'm also sorry about that.

[154] I hope it didn't feel like you needed to fix my.

[155] problem.

[156] I just was confused.

[157] One of the medications, they just don't know how much is in the vials, which is insane to me. Okay, this is another problem.

[158] So, first of all, I am going to play your voice memo, but before that, so they increased my medication today.

[159] Did they do anything to yours?

[160] No. Okay.

[161] So they have increased my fall stem.

[162] So yeah, we have a fallostum shot.

[163] We have a meniper.

[164] This is how we get through it, guys.

[165] It's a menipure, but we have a we've affectionately got to metapur as per I can't do that I wish I could I don't think we're allowed I think it's right I don't know I just feel like anything that's it is not made made up can we can't do anything on our hormones let's do men apart let's be a lot we're allowed we should be allowed to do some cancely stuff at least a little I agree that should be a rule a law my men up here is staying the same two vials and then I'm starting my garters that not guard So I think that's like a STD.

[166] I don't know.

[167] No, that's like HPV or something.

[168] Oh my God, that's not what it's called.

[169] You're getting your HPV shot.

[170] What?

[171] I'm just deciding to double up and I'm going to go ahead and get my HPV vaccine.

[172] I would be late on the HPV vaccine.

[173] Yeah, I was going to say.

[174] I was like first in on HPV vaccine.

[175] Oh, I never got it.

[176] There was like a five -year period where they didn't really know, understand HPV.

[177] So I had to get a biopsy and colposcopy, which is where they put a, camera up your uterus every six months or something crazy they were just like we got to monitor it's not cancer but like it's changing and i was like what do you mean it's changing and now they're like you don't even need a pap's year every year like they've totally relaxed it i didn't need the vaccine i kind of had it that's so crazy i mean it's so prevalent like everyone has everyone has it yes but i do think like they were just starting the vaccine when i got it i was young good for you you got on it wasn't having sex so anywho so you have to get so you have to get You're starting the third shot tonight.

[178] But isn't it, so they told me I would start a morning shot on Wednesday.

[179] Do you have that?

[180] It's probably this.

[181] It starts with a G or another name.

[182] She said it goes by one of two names, whatever.

[183] It's the one in the blue box.

[184] Oh, okay, okay.

[185] I think that's probably what I'm, but they told me it's in the morning.

[186] Yeah, yours is different.

[187] I was like, this is not going to work because Monica is busy and has a life.

[188] But that one is easy.

[189] It comes preloaded everything.

[190] That's what she said.

[191] Okay, so that must be it.

[192] Okay.

[193] So I'm on it for longer than you.

[194] Interesting.

[195] Okay.

[196] Okay.

[197] So that's different.

[198] But yeah, so I have to start that tonight.

[199] But then, okay, so there's this whole thing with the fall of stem where you run out.

[200] I mean, we've already talked about this.

[201] This is what happened a few nights ago with the -my mistake.

[202] Yeah.

[203] The big mistake.

[204] The big mistake of the 20 -shot night.

[205] The big mistake of the summer.

[206] But I'm going to have four shots tonight.

[207] Whoa.

[208] Yeah.

[209] Why four?

[210] Because of this stupid thing.

[211] So it's like I'm moving up and fall system to 300 and my vials are 22.

[212] No. It's very frustrating that my nurse wasn't available this morning.

[213] So it was another nurse.

[214] I don't know her name.

[215] So I can't out her.

[216] But I did not like her as much as my nurse.

[217] She's like doing the math on how much I have left and how much I need.

[218] Because we got to get through Wednesday.

[219] Wednesday's it.

[220] What do you mean?

[221] Wednesday's all we need.

[222] Yeah.

[223] Yeah.

[224] Yeah.

[225] Yeah.

[226] Oh, wow.

[227] That's crazy.

[228] Yeah.

[229] So she was like doing the math.

[230] And she was like, okay.

[231] She was like, I hate to over order.

[232] I was like, why?

[233] Right.

[234] Do it.

[235] Like, what do you mean?

[236] For other people.

[237] Who is making this and why are they so stingy?

[238] They're really stingy about it.

[239] And I'm like, you guys, we're paying so much money.

[240] Give me the appropriate amount of medicine so that I don't have to stab myself 500 times.

[241] So I was very annoyed by that.

[242] I get that.

[243] But then my nurse called, my nurse, who I love.

[244] Shout out Desiree.

[245] She called and she was like, I'm going to order you a 600.

[246] Desiree with the long nails?

[247] Yes.

[248] Oh, wow.

[249] She's perfect.

[250] She's amazing.

[251] I know.

[252] I love her.

[253] But anyway, so that was upsetting.

[254] Okay.

[255] So you're getting a 600.

[256] So tonight.

[257] Oh.

[258] For tonight.

[259] Yeah.

[260] I'm so sorry.

[261] There's a lot that's already annoying.

[262] Why wouldn't they just try and minimize the annoying?

[263] I know.

[264] They should bring us on as consultants.

[265] I've never paid this much money for something that's this frustrating.

[266] Yeah.

[267] It's rough.

[268] You know?

[269] Okay.

[270] So speaking of you being frustrated, let me play the voice memo from last night.

[271] How many full list of him do you have?

[272] Because they just told me that I, like, want to cry.

[273] It's just, it's so confusing.

[274] Like, they say they're 300 IUs.

[275] An IU.

[276] What is an IU?

[277] But she's like, some of them are 450.

[278] And she doesn't know which ones, I guess.

[279] And so you're just supposed to poke yourself until it stops.

[280] And, like, I just wish they meet this, like, a little bit less, like, crazy like it's already hard enough and like I feel like one of the chart cart ridges like disappeared and I don't know where it is we threw one of them out I guess because we made that mistake that one time so how many do you have one two three four five to have six please tell me you have six oh my god I was crying inside the fridge I was just like and I feel bad because you're also dealing with so much and then I'm like sending you crying voice notes, which, like, is so, I've never done that.

[281] This is what we're here for.

[282] Yeah.

[283] This is what I'm here for for support.

[284] I do think, like, I, again, for my ADHD fam, I find the detail.

[285] And again, today, I forgot the box.

[286] Even this morning, I almost forgot the meds and then keeping them into cold.

[287] And I was like, got to remember to take.

[288] It's just, if you do have difficulty with attention to detail, it's already overwhelming.

[289] It adds a whole other layer.

[290] This is why it should be part of it that a nurse comes.

[291] Or you go to a nurse.

[292] Like, it should just not be more money if you struggle with, like, yeah, attention to detail or if you're going to make mistakes.

[293] And then it has, like, a lot of repercussions.

[294] Anyway, sorry, that's it.

[295] That's my ADHD.

[296] No, that makes sense.

[297] But I think, like, look, the reality is that's not the case.

[298] Like, we can't do that.

[299] So if you do struggle with attention to detail, I would say write everything down step by step and have that out every time you're about to do it.

[300] So you have it all there.

[301] And, like, the video I took of my nurse.

[302] helped us so much because we just watched it and did it with her.

[303] I totally get that because it does already frasel your brain in a way when you're supposed to be paying so much attention.

[304] So you have to like kind of put in safety guards.

[305] Yes.

[306] And like write everything down and watch the videos.

[307] And yes.

[308] And put less on your plate because I was like trying to listen to a podcast.

[309] And I was like, I need to stop everything and really sort of put down other things.

[310] And that's really helpful too.

[311] which I wish I would have done, like, earlier on, even in the process of knowing this was going to happen, taking off things that just are not urgent or don't need to be done right now or don't need to be dealt with.

[312] That's really good.

[313] Like, give it the space it deserves.

[314] But I was thinking that today, like, so many women who are doing this have jobs.

[315] I know.

[316] And I was like, we just had to do this.

[317] We do have an interview in like eight minutes.

[318] So, you know, we are on a clock.

[319] But our clock is a lot more flexible.

[320] And thank God for that.

[321] But I was kind of freaking out because there was.

[322] a lot of people in the waiting room.

[323] And I was like, when am I going to get seen?

[324] Like, oh, no, are we going to have to push something?

[325] Then I just looked around the waiting room, but all these women.

[326] And I was like, they probably all have jobs.

[327] And they're all doing this.

[328] And they're all like, oh, my God, I'm like for a meeting.

[329] Oh, my God.

[330] Everyone's on their phone probably responding to emails like I was.

[331] On Slack.

[332] Yeah.

[333] And the appointments change.

[334] Imagine someone who was like a physical job.

[335] Imagine like a daycare worker.

[336] Exactly.

[337] He's lifting up kids.

[338] I don't think you could.

[339] Would you have to take to?

[340] Yeah.

[341] I guess that's why they ask for your profession.

[342] And they would probably advised.

[343] It's this weird catch 22 where a lot of the people, not all, I want to talk about that too, but a lot of these women here who are doing this are here because they've engaged a hundred percent in their career.

[344] And now we're sitting here still very engaged in our careers.

[345] Then you're sitting here like, oh my God, I'm missing work.

[346] I'm missing me because I have to move stuff around.

[347] Oh my God.

[348] It's so unfair.

[349] I just like looked around at all these women like, wow, everyone's doing so much right now.

[350] They're.

[351] dealing with all these hormones and all this stuff going on in your brain, all this attention to detail that's put around while also maintaining a job.

[352] It's very hard.

[353] Yes.

[354] I agree.

[355] And yesterday I was trying to work.

[356] Yes.

[357] And that was a really hard day for me because I couldn't really.

[358] And then you get stressed out that you're not working.

[359] And it's that too.

[360] Like, I just think there should be like a policy change.

[361] Women should take two weeks off.

[362] It should be able to.

[363] They don't even let you when you have a kid.

[364] Like let's get real.

[365] Like that's what's so crazy.

[366] This is nothing compared to that.

[367] 100%.

[368] You came across an interesting article about this.

[369] You know what I was trying to do is actually see if there was information about how the hormones impact you, which there is none.

[370] It's a lot of information about a lot of things.

[371] Like most of the egg freezing articles are all here's what to expect.

[372] Like it's a very 101.

[373] There's a little bit about everything, but they don't go into detail into any specific thing, which I think is so kind of fascinating and hopefully why this will be useful to people.

[374] But I was trying to look into the hormones and what are they?

[375] How are they affecting you?

[376] More details into that.

[377] Instead, I came across this article that was more general.

[378] And it said that studies show women aren't doing this because they're putting their career first, but most of the time it's just that they haven't met the right partner yet.

[379] So last week, there was a big psychology today article that says that there's the highest amount of lonely single men that has ever been.

[380] And one of the reasons why there's so many more single men, like a surplus of single men, is because women have really increased their standards when it comes to dating they want three things i think it was like someone who's available someone who's consistent and someone who has emotional capacity and i think that that is really really interesting because i relate i relate no it's like i feel like there's so many amazing women and i was rewatching the pilot of sex and city because i was sad and i couldn't kind of believe how it's the same thing in that show what was it 1995 the pilot and she says i can't believe there's so many amazing, beautiful, successful women and so few kind of marriageable men.

[381] I almost am like, I don't want to say this anymore.

[382] I feel bad for men who are listening.

[383] Like, I don't want this to feel like an indictment.

[384] But I also don't really understand why it's so hard.

[385] Well, I do think part of it, the reason it's hard is because there has been this standard for a long time.

[386] And it's going to take some time and some real effort to move out of this paradigm.

[387] where the man works and makes money and the woman fulfills all the emotional needs and, you know, deals with all the domestics.

[388] Like, we're still, that's brand new.

[389] It's brand new.

[390] And if you think about men who are now our age, they grew up in this insane, you know, boys will be boys and like, don't, boys don't cry.

[391] And they didn't go to therapy.

[392] I mean, maybe they're just starting now.

[393] Yeah.

[394] It's a whole new, you know, learning.

[395] And so you want to be compassionate and understand.

[396] But it does make relationships harder, you know?

[397] It does.

[398] And yeah, I do think we're just going at a little bit of a different pace.

[399] Like women are handling their own shit in a way that they weren't before.

[400] And because of that, the standards have been raised.

[401] And men have not reached that peak yet, vulnerability -wise, emotionally.

[402] So I think there's a dissonance right now.

[403] But I hope it evens out eventually, especially with more conversations about all this stuff.

[404] Yeah, a lot of women, I know my feet is full of.

[405] Maybe it's because of my algorithm.

[406] Sometimes I feel too diagnosed by my algorithm.

[407] It knows too much.

[408] But actually, I don't relate to this.

[409] It's a lot of women who are saying, I am so happy alone.

[410] I don't even need, I don't want someone to come and mess up all the healing I've done.

[411] And I don't feel that way.

[412] I really love being in a relationship.

[413] That's never been what I've wanted for myself.

[414] No matter how independent I want to be and feel.

[415] I think women are very unhappy in this and men are unhappy in this too.

[416] And I think the more spaces there are for us to have.

[417] have these more candid conversations and maybe this is off topic.

[418] But I'm also sensing it's a post -pandemic thing where there's so much to be triggered by even outside of romantic relationships.

[419] I can't even really listen to the news and I'm a journalist.

[420] I have to like brace myself to take on the flood of information and tragedy.

[421] And so I think a lot of people are now just like staying away.

[422] Oh, for sure.

[423] Disassociating.

[424] They're on their phones.

[425] And even like younger generations, I was talking to these, because whenever I'm in at Gen Z, I'm like, tell me, I just, I'm so curious.

[426] And they're like not even dating.

[427] They're like, we're too afraid.

[428] We just rather not even go there.

[429] Interesting.

[430] Wow.

[431] That's fascinating.

[432] Okay.

[433] Well, wow.

[434] We covered a lot.

[435] Did I finish my idea that I, after I left your place, I was crying in bed, and then I went to your place and we were laughing.

[436] And then I left and I was fine.

[437] That changed me. Such a support in so many different ways.

[438] So I hope everyone can find their Monica.

[439] I know.

[440] Find their Liz.

[441] Well, we're going to transition out into the second part of the this episode.

[442] Speaking of men, we have an amazing man on the show.

[443] You might remember him from armature expert.

[444] You probably listen to his podcast.

[445] Andrew Huberman is here to talk to us about all things hormones.

[446] We have very specific questions.

[447] We have broad questions.

[448] It's going to be really fun.

[449] So please enjoy Andrew Huberman.

[450] So what is the number one question you get about from men?

[451] And what's the number one question to get from women about fertility?

[452] The number one question about fertility that I get from men is whether or not testosterone therapy and related therapies will disrupt their ability to have children.

[453] And the truth is, yes, it will unless they take certain steps to mitigate it.

[454] And then the number one question I get from women about fertility is what can they do to maximize egg health?

[455] And what can they do to determine whether or not their egg health and fertility has a long or a short arc. I should just preface all this by saying, while I am not a reproductive endocrinologist, an MD, or anything of that sort, I got my start in research science in the endocrine side of neural endocrine stuff, how hormones impact brain development and nervous system development in utero and in the parents, everything from general development to brain development.

[456] But over the years, I've gotten involved in various communities that look to hormone therapies and they're curious about that and we've covered a number of these topics on my podcast so it's come up like what can you do to maximize egg health when should you freeze eggs how late can you freeze eggs does PRP platelet rich plasma do anything for ovarian health what about nmn like so we could get into the weeds of all of this we don't know any of the things you just said so please well yeah so i'll basically just speak in acronyms and then tell you with those acronyms of course If people are thinking about conceiving in the short term or in the long term, obviously the most important thing to do first is to tell your primary care physician and to try and get in touch with a reproductive endocrinologist before you get in touch with a fertility clinic.

[457] Because you want a two -pronged approach.

[458] You want to be able to compare recommendations.

[459] And it can get very expensive to just work with fertility clinics.

[460] Certain things can be covered by insurance if you're also working through your primary care physician.

[461] Oh, interesting.

[462] Okay.

[463] So we can get down into the weeds of any and of all of this, and then people can tell me all the things I said that were incorrect.

[464] Oh, they will.

[465] Oh, yeah.

[466] That's one of the best parts about doing podcasts.

[467] Oh, I bet you get a lot of comments.

[468] And I have no relationship to any fertility clinic or anything of the sort.

[469] So disclosures first.

[470] We want all points of view and all different types of experts on everything.

[471] Okay, so since the biggest question is our biggest question, how do you maximize ovarian health during this process?

[472] maybe it's too late before this process.

[473] How should we have done that, do that?

[474] Let's start with some kind of chronological norms, right?

[475] And when we say norms, we mean averages.

[476] We can look also to what the law and what medicine say is safe and why.

[477] And this is helpful as kind of bracketing the conversation.

[478] So to my understanding, and this might differ by state, it might differ by country, women can freeze their eggs up until about age 40.

[479] and I think it's going to be plus or minus two years depending on where you live.

[480] So some clinics will freeze eggs in 42 -year -old women.

[481] Some will not.

[482] They'll only do it in 40 -year -old women.

[483] I should just say most clinics will freeze embryos, fertilized embryos, for quite a bit later.

[484] In fact, maybe even indefinitely because now the age at which women are conceiving through in vitro fertilization is much later.

[485] And just so people know, because I didn't even know this.

[486] When you say embryo means you know, need a sperm donor or you get your partner to put it in the egg.

[487] Fertilize egg.

[488] Correct.

[489] So we can talk about the process a little bit and the biology of it because it's actually interesting there and we can talk about what people are screening for and you can save yourself a lot of time and trouble knowing just a few key terms.

[490] But what this means is that let's say you're a 32 year old woman and you know that someday you want children or you might want children.

[491] What should you do?

[492] Okay, well, if you're in a relationship that's moving toward that, then you start working on that either natural, in vivo, intercourse, to conceive.

[493] Yeah.

[494] Then there's IUI, intrauterine insemination.

[495] So this is taking sperm and using some sort of apparatus in the old days of the kind of the vernacular was like the turkey baster method.

[496] Yeah, we really just talked about this sort of thing.

[497] But there are other devices now that are designed more specifically for that as opposed to a turkey baster.

[498] So put it in further in?

[499] Yeah, to get it intracervically as opposed to in the general region.

[500] Got it.

[501] But if you think about intercourse, it's not intracurvically.

[502] circasservically, around the cervix and near the cervix, very close to the cervix.

[503] I guess it depends on the anatomy involved, right?

[504] There are a number of jokes I've heard on the internet about that, but let's not go there.

[505] And then, of course, there's IVF, in vitro fertilization, where the eggs typically are taken out, usually after a stimulation protocol, so giving a bunch of hormones to make a woman hyper -ovulate, taking those eggs out and then putting sperm into the dish with them to fertilize them, sometimes also encouraged the sperm are actually mechanically encouraged to fertilize.

[506] So literally a good sperm one that looks like it's got nice morphology, nice shape is what that means.

[507] You'll see this on the sperm report.

[508] Morphalogy just means shape, morph.

[509] They take the fast swimmers.

[510] They take the ones that aren't swimming kind of lopside and off to its size.

[511] They look for the Michael Phelps.

[512] Got it.

[513] A sperm.

[514] We're all looking for the Michael Phelps swimmer.

[515] The tall sperm with nine gold medals or whatever.

[516] Exactly.

[517] And they'll physically push it up next to the egg.

[518] That's actually an interesting.

[519] choice because it turns out that if you're looking at the frequency of mutations and chromosomal abnormalities that can essentially eliminate a given embryo, like it wouldn't be safe to implant.

[520] You would think, oh, you take the best sperm, you force it up against that egg, and of course you're getting the best with the best.

[521] But my understanding of the literature is that statistically, that's going to lead to more chromosomal abnormalities.

[522] And those eggs, as opposed to putting a bunch of sperm in and running a competition with IUI, right?

[523] With an uter and insemination, let's just say in vivo.

[524] Let's just be clear about our anatomalies.

[525] And so.

[526] termical terms.

[527] Instead of a penis delivering the sperm, it's some sort of apparatus.

[528] Technology.

[529] Some other technology.

[530] Well, the penis is technology.

[531] You're right.

[532] You're right.

[533] Some might argue it's a poorly evolved technology.

[534] Some would argue it's a bestigal technology.

[535] Well, some people argue that because it's external to the body, it's not the safest place for a reproductive apparatus.

[536] I agree.

[537] It's very vulnerable to the elements.

[538] Yeah.

[539] For reasons, it probably should go on another podcast.

[540] Okay.

[541] Wait, no, I want to know why is the penis outside?

[542] The more interesting question perhaps is why are the testicles outside the body.

[543] And that's because sperm can only exist in a very limited temperature range.

[544] When men get cold, going to cold waters, they shrink.

[545] It brings the testicles closer to the body.

[546] Keep them warm.

[547] When they're warm, sort of just hangs there.

[548] Yeah.

[549] Exactly.

[550] And of course, these are some things that change over age and there's individual variability.

[551] But that's the reason.

[552] It's a little temperature modulator.

[553] There's just advice also out there that heat is bad fertility for men.

[554] Okay.

[555] Yeah.

[556] I want to make sure that I don't talk too much about male reproductive health first because I always tend to do that.

[557] It's probably some Y chromosome -linked deficiency in my brain.

[558] But to just make sure we check that box now, it's true.

[559] Spermer on a 60 -day generation cycle.

[560] So if I were to sit in a really hot sauna today, in 60 days, more of the sperm that I would ejaculate are going to have disrupted morphology and be dead.

[561] Now, you can mitigate that.

[562] And this is true for hot baths and for hot tubs too.

[563] Now with a sauna, like I'm big into the sauna, I bring an ice back in there.

[564] You do?

[565] I do.

[566] On your underwear?

[567] Yeah, on the outside.

[568] I don't know if you need to tell us about your underwear.

[569] No. Because you talked about that on the hormone that there's a, even men who aren't going into saunas, there's cool underwear for men who want beggar sperm or whatever.

[570] Yeah, so there's a brand out there.

[571] I have no relationship to it called Snowballs.

[572] Oh, my God.

[573] This sounds like a sketch.

[574] There are a number of men who are using cold therapy, either ice baths, cold showers, or cold underpants.

[575] or boxers to make their testicles cold.

[576] And then there does seem to be some effect in increasing testosterone and spermatogenesis, generation of new sperm afterwards, but probably not from the cold directly.

[577] This is why biology gets interesting.

[578] There's the stimulus, which is the cold, but then there's after the cold, what happens?

[579] You get hyper blood flow to the area.

[580] You get what's called superfusion of the area, so it probably nourishes the testicles with more blood and probably leads to more generation of sperm.

[581] The testes seem to benefit from this transient cold.

[582] But if you're trying to conceive, you want to stay out of hot baths and hot tubs, if you're male, and if you are going into the sauna, bring a coal pack in there or just bring a jar with some ice water in there and set between your legs and you're probably okay.

[583] Let's say a woman in her 30s knows she wants to have kids someday, and maybe her partner's not ready, maybe they're not ready, it's not happening in the next year or two.

[584] My advice is that if people can afford to do it, because I always want to be respectful of fact that not everyone has all this boogie health care and all this kind of stuff there are a couple things to do first of all get your follicle count done it's really interesting it's a little bit like measuring testosterone for men there's this fear yeah that women have about measuring their follicles oh yeah scary i've talked to a lot of women that i tell this to and they're like i don't want to get my follicle count however some women in their 30s will have you know i don't want to scare people they'll have just two follicles left on one side or one follicle left or something.

[585] And of course, when in your cycle you are, because remember, the menstrual cycle has a follicular phase and a ludial phase, right?

[586] There's the part where the eggs grow, and then there's a part where an egg gets deployed and out and then lands in the uterine lining.

[587] And then if it's fertilized, then it takes to a pregnancy, hopefully, if that's what's wanted.

[588] And if not, then the uterine lining sheds, okay, and takes the egg with it.

[589] So number of follicles in the ovaries is key.

[590] And often in asymmetry in the two sides.

[591] Oh, no, I'm pointing to my sides.

[592] As far as I know, I don't have any others.

[593] I've actually never been karyotyped.

[594] Caryotype is where you're either X, X or X, Y. They're also X, X, Y. They're also XY, Y. Can check them out.

[595] Right, so you have genotype, but that's karyotype.

[596] So you can be karyotype.

[597] Women are going to have one on each side, typically.

[598] Some women will have 20 follicles.

[599] Some will have four.

[600] Some will have eight.

[601] And there's a lot of shame around having fewer at a given age, but you want to know.

[602] And the reason you want to know is that IVF or getting eggs.

[603] extracted and frozen, whether or not for fertilization then or fertilization later, involves doing typically nowadays, it's either a high -stim protocol.

[604] So this would be taking lots of injections of different hormones.

[605] And we can get into this and why in the cadence of it.

[606] But typically there are lots of injections on a daily basis of something called leutinizing hormone, LH.

[607] There are two hormones that you need to know if you're female.

[608] If you don't know these hormones, you need to know these besides estrogen.

[609] It's follicle stimulating hormone, f -sh, very easy in the context of this conversation.

[610] It stimulates multiple follicles to grow.

[611] And then lutenizing hormone or LH, which also stimulates the ovary, facilitates follicular growth, but is more involved in estrogen production, etc. Incidentally, men also have FSA and LH, but those very same two hormones, which come from the brain in pituitary, which is right above the roof your mouth, but the brain stimulates it, or some combination.

[612] I want to get into brain versus pituitary, but it comes down from the head, the cranium head, to the But one of the fun things about podcasting for a couple years and leaving the classroom is that...

[613] You get to say all sorts of things.

[614] Although, you know, I always say, like, anytime we're talking about sex or reproduction, we want to set four conditions.

[615] Always.

[616] And this is really serious.

[617] It would be consensual.

[618] Yep.

[619] Age appropriate.

[620] Mm -hmm.

[621] Uh -huh.

[622] Context appropriate.

[623] Species appropriate.

[624] Oh.

[625] Okay.

[626] Those are great rules.

[627] Just, you know, looking out for all the species out there.

[628] Ground rules.

[629] Lutinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone.

[630] LH and FSH.

[631] are involved in creating the maturation of the follicles.

[632] Those change across the month, dramatically, the 28 -day menstrual cycle, knowing your cycle, how regular your cycle is, et cetera, very important.

[633] Now, if women go in in their 30s and they discover that they have a low follicle count, what that means is there will probably be a high stim protocol.

[634] It's can be lots of FSA injections, lots of LH injections, and these drugs go by different names, things like gonol and human chorionic gonadotropin, HCG.

[635] When you take a pregnancy test, you're looking for HCG.

[636] It's in pregnant women's, urine.

[637] Guess what it also does?

[638] Stimulate testosterone in men.

[639] Guess why men used to buy pregnant women's urine on the internet?

[640] No. That's a thing?

[641] Yep.

[642] But now they just buy something called HCG also goes by the name pregnal.

[643] Oh, wow.

[644] So there's a lot of names here.

[645] But for people who are just trying to get the top contour of this, what you want to know is how many follicles you have.

[646] And you want to do that at the appropriate phase of your cycle.

[647] And to do that, you have to work with an OBGYN.

[648] They're going to put a ultrasound or other sort of scope.

[649] Transvaginal.

[650] We've been I'm calling it a delto.

[651] It's a giant delto.

[652] I'm pretty sure it's got a camera.

[653] Yeah, a delta with a camera and a long wire.

[654] They don't have Bluetooth yet.

[655] They don't.

[656] That would be an added fun part.

[657] Foreign territory for me. But I have been in the clinic when this was done.

[658] I've seen this done and you get to look up on the screen and see how many follicles.

[659] And you get this grainy picture.

[660] It looks a little bit like the ultrasound.

[661] They would use to look for a child and the development of the child.

[662] You can get, oh, there's a follicle, there's a follicle.

[663] And they're also looking at follicle size.

[664] Yep.

[665] And they'll get follicle morphology.

[666] This word turns out to be.

[667] important.

[668] Again, the shape.

[669] Doctors know how to look for a particular shape.

[670] The follicles shouldn't be too big.

[671] They shouldn't be too small.

[672] They should be in certain distribution.

[673] This is all the expertise of the OBGYN.

[674] Okay.

[675] Or the tech that's there.

[676] Can they be too big?

[677] What's called a hyperplasia of that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

[678] It just means that the egg that would result from that would not necessarily be the healthiest one.

[679] Then what happens is, let's say someone has a lot of follicles.

[680] If it's a young woman, and here when I say young, I'm not being judgmental.

[681] I'm just saying, let's say before age 40 for fertility reasons, I would still consider young.

[682] And older than 40 does not necessarily mean too old by any stretch.

[683] Let's say that they have a lot of follicles.

[684] They might do a moderate stimulation protocol or a low stim protocol.

[685] This means less FSAH and LH injections.

[686] Sometimes they'll also suppress estrogen and then stop suppressing estrogen for the following reason.

[687] Here's the one thing you need to know about the menstrual cycle.

[688] And this is true for women and men.

[689] So the first part of the cycle, you just want to remember this for the whole cycle.

[690] Estrogen primes progesterone.

[691] So in the early phase of the cycle, you've got low estrogen, and it's climbing, climbing, climbing, climbing, climbing up.

[692] So estrogen's going up, going up, going up.

[693] And then there's this little peak a couple of days before ovulation.

[694] And then it drops.

[695] And then progesterone gets kicked into kind of high gear.

[696] So estrogen primes the progesterone.

[697] That switch from high estrogen to high progesterone triggers ovulation.

[698] There's a temperature increase associated with it, hence the apps that rely on temperature.

[699] Is this why sometimes you have like heat, what does it call?

[700] Hot flashes?

[701] Thank you.

[702] Hot flashes.

[703] is there's a well -described increase in libido that occurs.

[704] There's sometimes an irritability, but not always.

[705] Sometimes the irritability and the libido are tethered in a way that, you know, that sex can relieve some of that.

[706] There's a friskiness.

[707] Yes, absolutely.

[708] And I don't say that in the slang term of the word, but being in heat, you know, this notion.

[709] I mean, it's typically, as we talk about dogs.

[710] So there's an increase in temperature.

[711] That's that peak in estrogen is coming or is close.

[712] Then you get the progesterone, and that leads to the ludial phase, the second half.

[713] Okay.

[714] So follicular ludial, estrogen.

[715] primes progesterone.

[716] Every man, every woman, she knows.

[717] Why does oral contraceptive treatment work?

[718] What is oral contraceptive treatment?

[719] There are a bunch of them, NUVA ring, copper wire, IUD.

[720] Most of them are estrogen.

[721] And what they do is they keep estrogen tonic constant so that you don't have the drop and it doesn't prime progesterone and you don't get ovulation.

[722] That's what most classic oral contraceptives do.

[723] Now, there are other versions of this.

[724] I went to college in the 90s and there was this like wave of all these different birth controls and things like that.

[725] Yeah, I was single then.

[726] So, you know, you date different women and something like, I hate birth control, gives me acne, or I love the pill.

[727] Like, oh, yeah, I love that.

[728] I never know what that statement meant.

[729] But the, I love it.

[730] Okay, great.

[731] Or the copper IUD is interesting.

[732] Yeah.

[733] This is an interesting.

[734] Now we're talking about birth control, but do you know the origin of the copper IUD?

[735] No. The copper IUD is extremely effective.

[736] But the reason it works is that it's like a third rail.

[737] Spirm get in there.

[738] It's like, eh.

[739] They just get.

[740] Oh, my God.

[741] It's a electrocution.

[742] Guess what prostitutes used to do back in the day.

[743] They would take a copper penny.

[744] and put it in their vagina.

[745] Yes, in an attempt, not always a successful one.

[746] By the way, don't try this with pennies, folks.

[747] Do not do this at home.

[748] In an attempt to not get pregnant.

[749] Okay, so estrogen -primes progesterone.

[750] So what are they going to do?

[751] You're going to do a high -stim, moderate stem or low -stem.

[752] High -stim is a lot of hormones.

[753] Think about the super menstrual cycle.

[754] Tons of LH, tons of F -SH, and they might even suppress estrogen so that they can really just let go of that suppression right before and just get a massive wave of ovulation.

[755] Typically, you get a bunch of eggs, those eggs are then frozen, and then sometimes they're called cryopreserved, and they're kept in little straws.

[756] Oh, we didn't know that.

[757] Like little straws.

[758] Yeah, little straws.

[759] Why are you sad about it?

[760] I don't know.

[761] I just, because I'm realizing that's what they're doing to me. They're lowering my.

[762] Honestly, I think the whole process is beautiful.

[763] So I started off, as mentioned, endocrine type stuff, but then I moved to developmental neurobiology.

[764] I still teach this to medical students at Stanford.

[765] There is nothing more beautiful than embryology.

[766] That's really sweet.

[767] Because people aren't seeing the glimmer in his eyes.

[768] I give that lecture once a year, and I'll explain later how fertilization works and what it means, and I'll describe a few elements about it, that to me still to this day, give me chills.

[769] It's just incredible, right?

[770] It's the most beautifully orchestrated phenomenon.

[771] And then here we are.

[772] It's like speaking and talking.

[773] It is incredible.

[774] It's incredible.

[775] Okay, so they'll collect eggs.

[776] They'll freeze them.

[777] They put them in these little straws.

[778] They're very comfortable in those little straws.

[779] So they'll put them in a minus 80 freezer.

[780] So it's really cold.

[781] Now, at some point, you need sprung.

[782] Right?

[783] So the sperm could come from a sperm donor.

[784] The sperm could come from a partner.

[785] And there are two ways to do that.

[786] You can either take frozen sperm.

[787] So sperm banks freeze sperm or sometimes they'll put live sperm on there.

[788] There's still a lot of debate as to what's better.

[789] I want to be careful with disclosures here.

[790] I'm familiar with the process of freezing down sperm.

[791] And I can tell you why I did that.

[792] I'm not shy about doing that.

[793] I do think it's interesting and important for men to consider whether or not they want to do that at a certain age.

[794] Totally.

[795] The process of extracting eggs is usually done under light anesthesia.

[796] Sometimes it's done only locally and sometimes it has to be done multiple rounds.

[797] Here's one thing that I've learned.

[798] The cost of different clinics varies tremendously.

[799] What I just described in some clinics is $5 ,000 and other clinics is $50 ,000.

[800] There are clinics that are really big on people dosing themselves up with assailles, whatever.

[801] Yes, I read that in our comments.

[802] Yeah, there's some interesting data.

[803] Maybe I'll just fire off a few things that the data show.

[804] Yes, please.

[805] Helpful for egg quality.

[806] Quality peer -reviewed studies point to the fact that the obvious things are key.

[807] Sufficient sleep, sufficient sunlight, sufficient exercise.

[808] I hate to say it, folks, but just recorded an episode in alcohol we haven't released it yet.

[809] Alcohol is a poison.

[810] You can have a few drinks per week if you're not pregnant.

[811] Right.

[812] And if you're going to do this egg retrieval, my suggestion would be to abstain from alcohol in the month before you do it.

[813] The month.

[814] Oh, my God.

[815] Well, listen, well, it also depends on how much you drink.

[816] The current data show, nobody likes it when I say this, but 10 grams of alcohol per week, maybe 20, so that's about two drinks, is about the threshold after which you start getting some problems.

[817] Cellar damage, minor cellular damage, not necessarily to eggs, but to other cells in the body, liver, et cetera, leaky gut.

[818] We could go down the rabbit hole of alcohol, but if you can avoid drinking, well, how much you're drinking per week?

[819] I don't feel like it's a lot, but then when I start adding it up, it gets to be more.

[820] more than I would like.

[821] I'm going to be, I'm going to play like the health guy dad role and just say alcohol is converted into acetylaldehyde, which is a poison.

[822] And your liver can handle it and you're young and your liver can deal with it.

[823] And people are going to say, well, I know so many people that were conceived on alcohol or that people didn't know they were pregnant until two weeks into it and they were drinking like a fish on spring break.

[824] Listen, probably all true.

[825] But if you want to bias toward maximal health, alcohol is a toxin and there's no question about it.

[826] Anyway, if you've had a few drinks going into this egg thing, they'll look at the eggs.

[827] I doubt it's going to be a problem, but just know that.

[828] So stay away from alcohol.

[829] We've done good on this actual, because we started, when do we start?

[830] We started Tuesday.

[831] Yeah, a week ago.

[832] You're both on stim right now?

[833] Yes.

[834] You're taking pregnal and gonal.

[835] Right now we're on Falis stem and Menopure.

[836] So Fallistim is FSH.

[837] Okay.

[838] Yeah.

[839] And Menopure is probably an LH thing.

[840] Nowadays, they'll also prescribe.

[841] It's very expensive, but especially for older women, of which neither of you are, growth hormone, gonadotropin.

[842] Okay.

[843] They will sometimes recommend, and this is expensive, and the data are not clear on this, but PRP injections, platelet -rich plasma injections.

[844] Now, that's an injection into the ovary.

[845] They draw your blood, they spin it down.

[846] This is really big in the kind of like knee rehabilitation.

[847] Some people think it's good for your brain.

[848] I'm going to be really honest.

[849] If anyone tells you that there are stem cells in PRP, back away slowly and say, Andrew Huberman said that you're lying.

[850] Okay.

[851] There might be one stem cell in PRP.

[852] In fact, it's illegal for clinics to say there are stem cells in PRP because there's so few of them.

[853] And the FDA has banned stem cell therapies outside of the research setting in the U .S. People will go down to Columbia to get it.

[854] But PRP you can get because it's FDA approved, platelet -rich plasma.

[855] So they're spinning down the platelets in blood.

[856] Your blood has a bunch of stuff, but platelets can be enriched.

[857] But they'll inject it directly into the ovary in women.

[858] And there's some interesting data from laboratories in Greece showing that you can increase the number of eggs.

[859] I think they had a 50 or 52 -year -old woman get press.

[860] after PRP injections.

[861] A lot of this is kind of anic data.

[862] It's pretty expensive.

[863] It ranges from 1 ,000 to 3 ,000 per injection.

[864] Again, huge variation.

[865] Typically, the PRP clinics will say, oh, we only do it once a month as a way to drive a lot of people to it.

[866] And as people have more and more trouble conceiving, they become more and more desperate and they're willing to throw more and more dollars at it.

[867] I know.

[868] That piece of it is so rough.

[869] You know, I don't want to demonize PRP.

[870] I think if you have the means to throw the kitchen sink at this process, PRP is probably going to help.

[871] There's evidence the NMN, the David Sinclair, what you're trying to get is more NAD.

[872] The NAD is a substance in seller component that goes down as we age.

[873] This is what he's trying to reverse.

[874] He's trying to reverse aging that way.

[875] NMN is available as a supplement.

[876] Some people will take NR instead of NMN.

[877] There's a whole industry there.

[878] There's a ton of battling.

[879] If you want to make a lot of enemies, just go on Twitter and talk about NMN or NR and people just start fighting.

[880] The people that work on this stuff are really agro and very smart.

[881] So they're agro and smart, and it's controversial.

[882] So you get a lot of, it's like a bar.

[883] rubber wire topic.

[884] But nonetheless, people will take NMN.

[885] There's some good sources of it out there.

[886] I don't want to plug any sources because that's not what we're about here.

[887] But some people will do that as a way to bolster things.

[888] Some people will go high on the antioxidants.

[889] They'll take things like glucothion, ubiquinol.

[890] Here's what I recommend people do.

[891] Talk to the doctor and say, give me the lowest cost, the moderate cost, and give me the Lamborghini version as well.

[892] And tell me what those costs.

[893] And then compare that to what you're able to do.

[894] Because the ideal situation is you're doing this only once or twice.

[895] And then it's the Dandione.

[896] You'll eventually get your hamburgis.

[897] Okay.

[898] So what are some things that have been really shown to improve egg quality?

[899] However, one of the more impressive ones there is el -carnatine or acetyl -al al -carnatine.

[900] Very interesting and what I would consider strong data for sperm quality and motility and for egg quality.

[901] Really?

[902] Okay.

[903] Especially in women that have dealt with PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome.

[904] Especially in smokers.

[905] Okay.

[906] Smoking nicotine or vaping is terrible for egg quality and sperm quality.

[907] Like, big thumbs down.

[908] So, Elkharnatine can be taken in oral form.

[909] It's over -the -counter in this country, except in the injectable form, which actually more is assimilated from injectable form.

[910] You can get a prescription.

[911] Don't go buying it rogue on the internet, injectable form.

[912] You want a clean form from a compounding pharmacy, prescribed by a doctor.

[913] Two mils or a thousand milligrams a day of the injectable.

[914] It's easy.

[915] Also, listen, if you're going to go down this path, get over your needle aversion.

[916] I mean, I'm...

[917] You'll learn to love it.

[918] No, she hates it.

[919] I have been giving her all of her injections.

[920] I can't even give it to myself.

[921] I have a couple friends whose wives, sorry guys to tell the story, who were going through IVF, and they had me inject their wives.

[922] There's like three friends now.

[923] Because I've worked with a lot of syringes, right?

[924] I've done a lot of injections.

[925] And I'm not afraid of them at all.

[926] And so you're giving the syringes into their butt, and they're giving syringes, you know, into their, into their, and so I always joke, you know, I like, helped get your wife pregnant.

[927] Yes, exactly.

[928] I like to be able to make, it's not an kind joke.

[929] But the injections are frequent.

[930] It's every day, multiple injections, some into the belly.

[931] Yeah.

[932] If you're very, very lean can get uncomfortable.

[933] If you're not lean, congratulations, because it's a lot less uncomfortable.

[934] Into the muscle can hurt.

[935] You got those big long needles.

[936] But here's the deal with, use a sharp needle and just going fast.

[937] You don't feel a damn thing if you're going fast.

[938] But I realize that people have aversion.

[939] Okay.

[940] Glucathine ubiquinol.

[941] I see some people out there prescribing berberine or metformin.

[942] I think that's a bad idea.

[943] I don't know who is saying this.

[944] What is that supposed to do?

[945] It's a tree bark derivative, but it can really mess with blood sugar.

[946] Oh, God.

[947] In fact, metformin and berberine are known to blunt blood glucose.

[948] They do have a little bit of mild antioxidant properties that berberine does at least.

[949] I would stay away from that unless your doctor is really bullish on this.

[950] But the big things are NMN, ubiquinol, glucothion.

[951] There's a lot of interest in assay as an antioxidant to help with egg quality.

[952] Now, listen, if someone's in their 20s or 30s, chances are things are going to be tuned up nicely and you won't need a lot of this stuff.

[953] It's when you start getting into your early mid and later 40s that this stuff becomes challenging.

[954] We'll give you a little backstory already.

[955] So Liz has 20 follicles.

[956] Saw follicles.

[957] Great number of follicles and I don't.

[958] I have nine follicles.

[959] Do you know the distribution?

[960] Five and four.

[961] At least it's fairly symmetric, so that's good.

[962] Does that make a difference?

[963] You at least have the idea that one ovary isn't dramatically healthier.

[964] Yeah, okay.

[965] We've been doing the shots and doing the thing.

[966] And then our last appointment, which was two days ago, they were like, okay, so five are growing nicely for like aren't, basically.

[967] So five was looking like what it's going to be.

[968] And I was like, oh, my God, this is a disaster.

[969] And then I went back today.

[970] They increased the men appear.

[971] And now those others are growing more.

[972] So now there's a little more hope for that.

[973] But anyway, so we're in it, these numbers that we've been avoiding our whole lives, we now know.

[974] Would you agree, isn't it just better to know?

[975] I don't know.

[976] Well, let me put it this way.

[977] Let's say you didn't want to know and you waited three years or four years, and you had two follicles per size?

[978] Exactly.

[979] And you would say, goodness gracious, what if we had gone in at that way?

[980] No, I do think that.

[981] Like, I wish I had known at 27 what the number was.

[982] I'm also, I've been on birth control since I was 18, so this hasn't had most likely an effect.

[983] Are they keeping you on birth control during this?

[984] I'm off of it currently, but I was on it up until, and that was my decision and it was a bad decision.

[985] You think so?

[986] Yeah.

[987] And I'm going to probably do this again, and I'm going to stay off of it for like six months.

[988] Birth control also has all these amazing benefits.

[989] I know.

[990] No one wanted pregnancy.

[991] Can equilibrate cycles.

[992] And then, of course, the different forms of birth control people can discuss and, you know, think about.

[993] I'm trying to think if there's anything else for egg quality.

[994] You want to make sure you have enough calories, right?

[995] I mean, we know, for instance, that if women don't eat enough, they stop menstruating.

[996] Right.

[997] Athletes, typically, anorexics.

[998] Regular cycles are good.

[999] Some people are more nutrient sensitive based on cycle regularity.

[1000] Some people are not.

[1001] Then there's the whole kind of neuroendocrine part, like being happy, getting enough sleep.

[1002] Yeah, yeah, you know, I was in a conversation with somebody about this recently about, you know, how important it is to be in a good mental space in order to conceive and all this.

[1003] And then, of course, you hear about tons of people who get pregnant right as they're breaking up or in a terrible relationship.

[1004] And so I confess at this point in my life, I'm very encouraging.

[1005] of healthy relationship.

[1006] It's certainly what I strive for to varying degrees of success.

[1007] And by the way, that would all be my fault.

[1008] That's this nice of you.

[1009] I'm sure.

[1010] It takes two.

[1011] It takes two.

[1012] Does it?

[1013] That's what they say.

[1014] It takes two.

[1015] It takes two to make it work.

[1016] One person can screw it up.

[1017] Oh, I like that.

[1018] I don't know.

[1019] I don't think I buy into that.

[1020] But okay.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] All right.

[1023] Anyway, I think that in general, it's good to get rest and that's going to go with positive state of mind.

[1024] If you want to know how to get great sleep, we've done multiple podcasts on that, you can just, I'm not going to plug our podcast, but I guess I will.

[1025] If you rememberlap.

[1026] Go to perfect your sleep.

[1027] We have a sleep kit if you don't want to listen to a podcast or master your sleep.

[1028] We have whole episodes on this kind of anything that Walker books out there is great on sleep.

[1029] We also had you on an armchair and we talked pretty extensively about sleep.

[1030] Getting sunlight, all that good stuff.

[1031] Getting good sleep, limiting your stress.

[1032] I think in terms of nutrition, I would stay with what works for you.

[1033] You know, some people are vegan and it works for them.

[1034] Fewer are like pure carnivore and it works for them.

[1035] Or keto and it works for them.

[1036] Some people are omnivores and it works for them.

[1037] So, you know, you go with.

[1038] what works for you and you want to make sure you have enough calories going in but at the end of the day they're going to extract eggs and those eggs get frozen and then at some point they will get unfrozen they'll get cryo resurrected is that cool word they'll cryo resurrect them like hansolo although i guess some of them will be some of them will be little girls we don't know yet right till the sperm comes along and then they're going to take sperm and they're going to thaw the sperm so let's talk about sperm collection and embryo freezing etc so you're going to take sperm from a sperm bank or I think now men can donate to a sperm bank until age 42.

[1039] I think that's what it is.

[1040] There's some evidence that older sperm creates a higher incidence of autism and autism spectrum disorders.

[1041] However, even though it is statistically significant, it is still a very low or very small increase.

[1042] Okay.

[1043] So you take a 48 -year -old sperm and you take a 30 -year -old sperm, the probability of getting an autistic child from an older sperm is higher, but is still quite low overall.

[1044] And is there any correlation at all to ovarian health to autism?

[1045] Not that I'm aware of, but there are mutations that both parents could have, one or both parents, in things like neuroligin -3, which is associated with something called Timothy syndrome.

[1046] Excuse me, Timothy Synoderm is an L -type calcium channel, different mutation.

[1047] It's a form of autism.

[1048] You know, and as soon I say autism spectrum disorders, I'm going to just get dogpiled because by putting the word disorder there, people say, wait, you know, on the spectrum or neurotypical.

[1049] Exactly.

[1050] So, listen, I'm just using the nomenclature as it exists in the medical literature.

[1051] I am not to say whether or not something is disorder, an asset, neurotypical, et cetera.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] But if you look in the DSM, there's bipolar disorder.

[1054] Yes.

[1055] We're saying everything's allowed while we're on our hormones.

[1056] Well, we know, no one can get canceled.

[1057] That must be nice.

[1058] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1059] Well, you know, I say this not to be politically correct.

[1060] I'm not as concerned about being politically correct.

[1061] I just, in covering so many mental health issues on the podcast, and also in talking about parenthood, there are mutations, for instance, in like neuroligin -3.

[1062] It's an adhesion molecule involved in brain wiring.

[1063] I have a friend who has a mutation in neuraligen three.

[1064] They talk about whether or not one of their atypical children, and it might relate to this.

[1065] You know, you'd want to know if you can.

[1066] Now, here's the beauty of in vitro fertilization.

[1067] You can screen embryos.

[1068] Exactly.

[1069] In fact, my postdoctoral advisor used to say, why doesn't everyone do IVF?

[1070] And I said, Well, because some people want to have intercourse to conceive.

[1071] And he was like, why couldn't they just like put the dish on the nightstand and then just like have sex next to it?

[1072] I feel the way.

[1073] I'm like, I want to know.

[1074] You can select out Brackatoom mutation, breast cancer mutation.

[1075] You can select for sex.

[1076] Remember, when we talk about biological sex, we can reliably talk about X, Y, X, X, Y, all that.

[1077] And there's a whole interesting literature about when a baby is born, how that's actually determined by the genitalia versus the karyotype X, X, Y. Super interesting literature.

[1078] Maybe another episode.

[1079] They're going to take some sperm, they're going to run a sperm competition, or they're going to push what looks like the best sperm over to the egg and fertilize.

[1080] And then at some point, that will turn into what's called a blastocyst, which is a ball of cells, becomes an embryo.

[1081] And those embryos are then frozen.

[1082] Typically, that process takes about a week.

[1083] Not every fertilized egg will turn into an embryo.

[1084] And then they'll take those embryos and they'll do some genetic testing.

[1085] Typically, the first thing they'll do is chromosomal testing.

[1086] Now, let's say you decide to fertilize the day you return.

[1087] of eggs and freeze a few embryos.

[1088] That's actually the better scenario.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] So I don't know, and this is highly personal, because people often don't want to reveal if they're doing this with a partner.

[1091] Neither of us are doing it with a partner.

[1092] Okay.

[1093] So at some point, you will determine the best source of sperm for your eggs, and you'll fertilize those.

[1094] Now, there is some evidence that doing it while the eggs are fresh before frozen and fertilizing them could be better.

[1095] There's a lot of success fertilizing cryo -resorrected eggs, right?

[1096] On solo eggs.

[1097] Yeah, exactly.

[1098] So then, you know, those embryos are maintained, and there's a cost to maintaining them, anywhere from, you know, $300 a month to $800 a year.

[1099] You hear all sorts of stuff.

[1100] You can select twins.

[1101] You can select boys.

[1102] You can select girls.

[1103] I mean, depending on how many there are.

[1104] So you may end up wanting to do two rounds.

[1105] You may want to end up doing three rounds.

[1106] Some people feel lousy on STEM.

[1107] Some people feel great.

[1108] I've seen it all different ways.

[1109] Can we talk about that?

[1110] Of course.

[1111] How we're feeling?

[1112] Yeah.

[1113] Because even, like, the diet stuff, Is there like a superfood that super jacks up your eggs that we don't know about?

[1114] Well, you want to make sure you're getting enough protein.

[1115] I know the plant people are going to kill me for saying this, but typically animal sources are going to be the best sources of whole protein.

[1116] Eggs, it could be cause cheese, Greek yogurt, beef, chicken, tuna, you know, salmon.

[1117] People who try and get protein from things like peanut butter and beans, typically you end up having to ingest a lot.

[1118] Those are mostly carbohydrates and fat.

[1119] So, yeah, it has some protein in, but calorie for calories, it's not a protein -rich food.

[1120] You need plenty of fat, so olive oils, maybe even a little butter, a little bit of cholesterol, isn't a terrible thing, a little bit, a little bit of cheese, fruits, vegetables.

[1121] You don't want highly processed foods.

[1122] Why not?

[1123] What does it do?

[1124] Highly processed foods have a number of issues with them.

[1125] In small amounts or in moderation, you know, Pringle's going to kill you, no. But there's a bunch of other things in there that can disrupt the gut microbiome.

[1126] You want your gut microbiome healthy?

[1127] Do you need to take probiotics?

[1128] No, just eat a few low sugar fermented foods or drink some kefir or some kombucha.

[1129] Okay, got it.

[1130] Once a day.

[1131] Actually, there are a lot of reasons to want to do that.

[1132] Okay.

[1133] And, you know, have a healthy gut microbiome.

[1134] Incidentally, you know, there's a gut microbiome, there's a nasal microbiome, and there's a vaginal microbiome.

[1135] Uh -huh.

[1136] There's also a urethro microbiome in males.

[1137] Wow.

[1138] So, yeah, any mucosal line tissue.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] These tissues that are mucosal line, I'm pointing in my mouth, for those you're listening, are amazing.

[1141] If you think about it, if you cut your skin, if you're like me, you heal really slowly.

[1142] If you bite the inside of your mouth, think by it heals up almost perfectly.

[1143] And it does that in an environment with a lot of bacteria.

[1144] The gut microbiome is an incredible thing.

[1145] It's important for brain function, immune function.

[1146] So like kimchi, nato, for those of you that like Japanese varieties, sauerkraut, if you're going to buy this stuff in the store, it has to be in the refrigerated section.

[1147] It can't be the non -refrigerated versions that there's no microbiota surviving in there.

[1148] Greek yogurt.

[1149] Again, low sugar, Greek yogurt.

[1150] These kinds of things are good.

[1151] Some people need more carbohydrates than others.

[1152] If you're exercising really heavily, some people, certain phases of their cycle, want more carbohydrate than others.

[1153] I get a little reluctant to give prescriptives on nutrition because nutrition is so personal.

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] And some people really do thrive, it seems, on a vegan diet.

[1156] Some on a vegetarian diet, like lactovo or pescatarian diet.

[1157] Some people do really well on red meat.

[1158] Other people do really well on a combination.

[1159] So some of it's probably genetic.

[1160] Some of it's lifestyle, you know, if you're dachs and you're lifting heavy iron three days a week, you're riding motorcycles and all that's going.

[1161] Like, you probably want to eat more animal protein.

[1162] You're just going to be craving that, you know?

[1163] And we talked about last time, I mean, he's doing a number of other things that probably make him crave protein.

[1164] You know, somebody who's doing less of that, kind of protein breakdown type activities or muscle breakdown activities might need a little less.

[1165] In general, with your vaginal microbiome, how do you maximize that?

[1166] How do you make sure that's like always tip top?

[1167] Great.

[1168] Well, I don't have one.

[1169] So when you say your vaginal microbeam, the vaginal microbiome.

[1170] Okay, so this is interesting because there are two general schools of thought.

[1171] Here's what we know about the microbiome generally.

[1172] Let's just talk about the entire microbiome, all mucosal tissues.

[1173] If you own a pet, if you don't wash your hands quite as much as other people, if you swim in the ocean every once in a while, if you garden, your gut microbiome is healthier.

[1174] Every time you meet someone and shake their hand, you're exchanging microbiota that then you wipe on your face or get into your body.

[1175] People who try and maintain a hyperstereal environment generally have a deficient microbiome.

[1176] Wow.

[1177] You need the bacteria from the environment.

[1178] Now, does that mean that you should be getting dirt and other substances of your vagina?

[1179] No. UTI -City.

[1180] But over -cleaning can be a problem.

[1181] The microbiome, whether or not it's vaginal or nasal or urethral, has its mucosal lining, and it has layers of tissues.

[1182] These are very soft tissues, obviously.

[1183] They have a lot of free nerve endings.

[1184] Unlike the skin on your arm, which are the nerve cells don't come all the way to the surface.

[1185] They're sitting below the surface.

[1186] In areas like the vagina and in the urethro, the penis nerve endings go right up next to the surface, also in your mouth.

[1187] You've ever eaten something that drank something that's too hot.

[1188] You burned your mouth and you can't taste things well.

[1189] You burned back some of those neurons.

[1190] You actually destroyed them transiently.

[1191] They come back.

[1192] So on top of that, however, there's a mucosal lining.

[1193] And that mucosal lining, a mucous sounds gross, but it's actually a very important substance within the body.

[1194] And there are cells that secrete mucus that the proper amount.

[1195] Some people require a bit more mucous in their gut microbiome than others.

[1196] So there are all these indirect measures that people use, right?

[1197] They'll say, oh, you know, it's consistency or odor.

[1198] And, you know, it's interesting.

[1199] Women are so much better at understanding their bodies, especially their genitalia than men.

[1200] Men understand, like, one or two major functions of their genitalia.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] You know, it's like every guy grows up doing the ruler test.

[1203] Like every guy, every guy measures from the top and the bottom.

[1204] And then because these measurements are typically done behind closed doors and it's on the honor system.

[1205] Sure.

[1206] Yeah, so they know a few things, right?

[1207] But women are very, because they have cycles, they're basically running a monthly experiment, which at one part of the month, their vaginal mucosal lining is one way, and then later it's another way.

[1208] They know how it relates to their emotional state.

[1209] They know how it relates to their sleep.

[1210] They know how it relates to their partner.

[1211] Some women will even say, you know, oh, like I knew that was a good relationship because my vagina was happy.

[1212] Oh, my wow.

[1213] I mean, I think everyone would agree there's a strong emotional component to the vaginal lubrication process, right?

[1214] It's not only emotional, but there's a component there.

[1215] It's also related to hormone cycles, right?

[1216] And this is one of the chief symptoms of menopause is vaginal dryness, which is why they prescribe estrogen.

[1217] Since this is about menopause, just say that we've had several people on the podcast to talk about this.

[1218] So I can confidently say the data on estrogen therapy for menopause say that if the estrogen therapy is begun before or in the early phases of menopause, outcomes are far better than if it's done after someone's been in menopause for a long time.

[1219] So you should start.

[1220] But if you've been in menopause for a long time, you should still talk to your doctor about possible therapies, but they're generally estrogen therapies, right?

[1221] Does cortisol affect lubrication?

[1222] It probably does.

[1223] Probably.

[1224] I don't know specifically.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] What you find when you start looking at the hormones is that it's like a spider web.

[1227] If you pull on any hormone, another hormone changes.

[1228] You take melatonin, another hormone changes.

[1229] It's just the way the body works.

[1230] Right.

[1231] It's trying to find a balance.

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] It's all ratios.

[1234] In fact, this is a fun one.

[1235] If you look at the same measurement value, so it's typically nanograms per deciliter, Did you know that women have more testosterone than they do estrogen?

[1236] Really?

[1237] It's just...

[1238] Overall, all the time?

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] Or at certain moments.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] If you look at nanograms per deciliter, they have more testosterone than they do estrogen.

[1243] But they just have more estrogen than men have?

[1244] And less testosterone overall than men have.

[1245] Wow.

[1246] Wow.

[1247] No way.

[1248] Stay tuned for more if you dare.

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[1256] Yeah, this is actually a ding, ding, ding because I am home in Georgia and I was just with my aunt.

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[1270] I like it when it's specified because it means it's targeting actual needs.

[1271] Yes.

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[1274] And then there's an omega to support your heart and your brain and all the important things in your body and your mood, which we know is useful.

[1275] Very useful.

[1276] And a lot of people I know who are listening to this are considering freezing and they have a very specific egg freeze pack which is so awesome it has antioxidants added omega's iron and a full spectrum multivitamin and it was formulated by one of the foremost experts in fertility so i mean you just really can't go wrong with it exclusively for race to 35 listeners parallel is offering 15 % off your first three months of parallel with code race 15, head to parallel .co. That's p -e -l -e -l -l -c -c -o.

[1277] It's dot -c -c -o, not dot -com.

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[1279] We're not taught this because it's just too convenient to just say, oh, women have all the estrogen, men have all it says.

[1280] But that's wrong.

[1281] That's just wrong.

[1282] Men have estrogen.

[1283] It's important for brain function and for libido.

[1284] Men who suppress their estrogen have serious libido issues.

[1285] Women sometimes who have testosterone issues can have low libido.

[1286] We're not talking about libido and sex this time.

[1287] But we want to because we've talked about this because we are not, we have no libido.

[1288] Why?

[1289] It's counterintuitive.

[1290] Probably because of the estrogen suppression.

[1291] Interesting.

[1292] What is the estrogen suppressive drug?

[1293] Men appear fall a stem and then tonight I'm also getting put on ganyrolic, ganyl.

[1294] Ganyrelin?

[1295] And what's going to?

[1296] Hold on a second.

[1297] So it's the estrogen suppression is, right?

[1298] This is the nice thing about being in my career.

[1299] You have a lot of these people on dial.

[1300] Oh, I love it.

[1301] Oh, no way.

[1302] You're texting like another neuropsych?

[1303] Oh, this is great.

[1304] Anytime someone has a concussion or an aneurys or something, like I get the call because I'm sort of a referral service.

[1305] Honest, yes.

[1306] They don't want my surgical skills.

[1307] You're lucky I don't have your phone number.

[1308] I'd be texting you every day.

[1309] Um, I have this issue.

[1310] Here we go.

[1311] So, Fomar is the estrogen suppression.

[1312] Oh, I'm not on that.

[1313] My menopear was doubled.

[1314] And I was like, why?

[1315] And I'm like, oh, your estrogen was high.

[1316] And then what I noticed is that my libido was fine at the beginning.

[1317] And then it, like, I dropped.

[1318] During this phase, again, I'm not a physician.

[1319] I don't prescribe anything.

[1320] I'm a professor.

[1321] So I'm just going to profess things.

[1322] You have a very specific purpose in doing what you're doing right now.

[1323] I'm not saying that having sex or masturbation, et cetera, wouldn't necessarily facilitate it or not facilitate it.

[1324] I don't know the literature on that.

[1325] I certainly haven't heard a fertility doc say that somebody shouldn't have sex while they're doing this.

[1326] We were told that we're not allowed.

[1327] Really?

[1328] Because I think because we're hyper -furral.

[1329] They're like, we're afraid you're going to have like triplets.

[1330] Oh, because you're not on birth control.

[1331] The quickest way to put the kibosh on this whole process is to get pregnant.

[1332] Right.

[1333] So there are some things that women and men can take for libido outside of this whole thing.

[1334] I'll just mention them because it comes up.

[1335] Sorry, no pun intended.

[1336] Sorry.

[1337] We love it.

[1338] That was for you, Dax.

[1339] That was for you, Dax.

[1340] Is that okay?

[1341] He's so sad.

[1342] He's not here right now.

[1343] Plus, you would have dove right in onto your testicles getting smaller and long.

[1344] If Dax were here, we'd be talking about testosterone, exiglone.

[1345] Exactly.

[1346] So it's probably good that we hold up for a. And they're open about this so I can say.

[1347] But one of their children was conceived in a hot tub.

[1348] And so I think he must take a lot of pride in that because his testicles were obviously hot and it still worked.

[1349] Oh, but this is great.

[1350] This is great that you brought this up.

[1351] It's also great they conceived in a hot tub.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] Okay.

[1354] First of all, I want to say, were they actually submerged in the hot tub?

[1355] That's different than being in the hot tub.

[1356] Remember 60 -day sperm cycle.

[1357] We're going to get really nuts and boltsy because we can't help it because we can and because it's truly educational.

[1358] The sperm that allowed fertilization of that child, whichever when it was, that sperm was born 60 days prior to getting in that hot tub.

[1359] Right.

[1360] Believe it or not, even though the testicles are of varying size, but they have some volume to them.

[1361] The sperm are born in one place, and then they kind of matured a different place, kind of like the eggs and the follicles, right?

[1362] You can check at the anatomy.

[1363] There's the vast deference, this is the vassectomy.

[1364] It's a little tubes that connect to the, right?

[1365] And there's a semiferous tubules, and then there's what we think of as ejaculate, which has both sperm in it and semen includes sperm and other seminal fluid that is not sperm.

[1366] Okay?

[1367] So they conceived in a hot tub, but those sperm most likely were not raised in a hot tub.

[1368] Got it.

[1369] So what were you doing?

[1370] What were you doing 60 days prior to that, Dax?

[1371] That's what I want to know.

[1372] He'll probably be like, I was conceiving another.

[1373] Yeah, exactly.

[1374] Knowing him, he's probably capable of it.

[1375] If anyone could, you could do it, Dex.

[1376] That's right.

[1377] So let's think about libido just for a second.

[1378] So there are a couple of things that are obviously great sleep, being happy.

[1379] It's sunshine, believe it or not, in the afternoon on a lot of the skin has been shown in a study published in cell reports, medicine, cell press journal, excellent journal.

[1380] This has done an Israeli study showing that men and women who get sun exposure on their skin have increases in libido, increases in feelings of passion and attraction to their partners, if they're not partnered with other people.

[1381] Why?

[1382] Because skin isn't just an organ to protect your organs.

[1383] It's a endocrine, a hormone organ.

[1384] And so there's this pathway.

[1385] There are these cells called carotinocytes.

[1386] And those cells make something called P53, and it can relate to the testosterone and estrogen pathway.

[1387] And if anyone thinks that libido is just testosterone, it's the ratio of testosterone and estrogen.

[1388] And also things like prolactin, et cetera.

[1389] So it gets sun, get some sunlight on your skin.

[1390] Don't burn.

[1391] Don't be an idiot, but get some sunlight.

[1392] I think they did 20 minutes with as little clothing as possible while still being appropriate.

[1393] So for somebody that might be naked in your backyard.

[1394] For some people, that might be just shirt off.

[1395] For some people, it might be bathing suit.

[1396] For some people might be bikini.

[1397] A lot of people say, well, what is this the whole thing about sun people are into sunning their anus?

[1398] Do you know about this?

[1399] Oh, sorry.

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] There's a whole thing on Instagram of people like putting their feet in the air and sunning their buttholes.

[1402] I recently saw this.

[1403] It's been a thing.

[1404] It's actually not the anus because technically like rat in it.

[1405] You're in it.

[1406] But it turns out there's no evidence.

[1407] But it turns out there's no evidence.

[1408] that that is beneficial for testosterone, estrogen, and libido.

[1409] However, getting a lot of sun on the skin is provided you don't burn and don't do it too long.

[1410] Okay.

[1411] So that's a natural thing.

[1412] And then all the other stuff, the foundational stuff, get enough sleep, be happy, eat enough food, So easy.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] But then there are a few supplements.

[1415] A supplement called Tongat Ali.

[1416] It also goes by the name Long Jack.

[1417] And it also goes by the name something eufoli, I can't pronounce it.

[1418] Tonga Ali has some effects on the estrogen, lutinizing hormone and testosterone pathways.

[1419] that have been shown to increase libido at a dosage of about 400 milligrams per day.

[1420] Typically taken early in the day.

[1421] It's a capsule or powder form.

[1422] And early in the day, because it can kind of wake you up a little bit.

[1423] Okay.

[1424] Women and men sometimes will experience a libido increase.

[1425] And maca, the maca root.

[1426] Now, women who are trying to conceive or have hormone issues should not take maca because it can tap into the estrogen pathway.

[1427] Got it.

[1428] There's also something from Ayurvedic medicine, which is very interesting, called Shilogy.

[1429] S -H -I -J -A -J -E.

[1430] IT, Sheila -G, it's a tar that you melt in water and you drink it, has been shown to increase F -S -H.

[1431] Oh, wow.

[1432] So if you're going through these things, I don't think you want to start messing around with that, but Shilogy will increase libido a bit, Tonga Ali will increase libido a bit, Maka will increase libido a bit, and women especially seem to respond to Maka quite a lot.

[1433] If you're trying to modulate your hormones for sake of pregnancy or egg collection, et cetera, be careful with this stuff because they're acting as pseudo -hormones.

[1434] There are interesting data that for people are taking SSRIs, Prozac, Zoloft, and related things, which are controversial, but nonetheless are used for OCD and for other anxiety -related disorders can overcome some, not all, but some of the SSRI -induced reductions in libido.

[1435] Cool.

[1436] Oh, that's good to know.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] So there's a lot out there.

[1439] We've done an episode on testosterone and estrogen optimization.

[1440] We'll do another.

[1441] The sources of these are very important.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] I will say if you're going to look at sources, Maka, there are tons of good sources, the powder forms.

[1444] Tonga Ali, there are two sources I can mention.

[1445] I do have a relationship to one, but I'll mention two so that you can pick and know that our podcast is partnered with Momentus, and so you can go there and find Tonga Ali, but Solerae also sells Momentus.

[1446] Why would you want to go to one of those two brands or maybe another is that there are a lot of bogus versions of these out there.

[1447] And anytime you're taking supplements to tamper with hormones, you are going to find a lot of supplement companies are going to throw in a little testosterone.

[1448] The testing of these supplements is not very controlled.

[1449] So the two brands, are tested.

[1450] Again, I'm not plugging brands.

[1451] You do not have to do this.

[1452] And a lot of people don't want to increase their libido.

[1453] And there are other things.

[1454] I'm very anti -young males watching porn excessively.

[1455] And I'm very anti -young males masturbating excessively.

[1456] Why?

[1457] Because there's all sorts of sexual dysfunction that's now turning up in males that have trained their brain.

[1458] And here I'm talking about males, but it could also be females, to get aroused by watching other people have sex only.

[1459] Their third personing the process.

[1460] But there is evidence, however, that having a healthy relationship to your body.

[1461] And I'm not going to tell people whether or not to masturbate or not.

[1462] That's certainly not my role.

[1463] But there aren't a lot of data on that.

[1464] And yet there's a lot of lore.

[1465] Like some people will say, well, like, use it or lose it.

[1466] Women will say use it or lose it.

[1467] Nowadays, women's sexual health is a lot more talked about, maybe even than men's sexual health.

[1468] You know, I remember growing up, no one talked about vibrators and no one talked about sex positivity.

[1469] And I'm going to do a whole series on sexual health.

[1470] And I think it really just boils down to this.

[1471] Whatever your religious leanings, whatever your beliefs, whatever your relationship status, you need to define certain things that are good for your mental and physical health.

[1472] And I'm going to say it again, mental health, right?

[1473] Because you're going to do things and feel guilty and ashamed.

[1474] That's not mentally healthy.

[1475] But in terms of physical health, let's think about sperm quality.

[1476] If you're trying to conceive, what do they tell you?

[1477] Don't ejaculate for the two or three days before you bring in your sample, but definitely make sure that you ejaculate before you start that abstinence period.

[1478] Why?

[1479] Because some clear out of the pathways because you have some sperm that die, right?

[1480] 60 -day generation cycle.

[1481] So you want to get rid of the dead sperm, then you want three days to kind of replenish the ejaculate.

[1482] Yeah, that's what it is.

[1483] There's some cautious nods in here.

[1484] The thing about a conversation around sexual health and reproduction and egg retrieval, et cetera, we all are here because whether in vivo, IUI or IVF, some sperm and some egg got together in a body or in a dish, it happened.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] That's how we're here.

[1487] And so the mechanics of it are pretty interesting, I think.

[1488] Can we just close a loop on libido?

[1489] Because why don't we have libido?

[1490] Is it because estrogen is really?

[1491] They're blunting.

[1492] They're blunting estrogen, and estrogen makes you more horny.

[1493] Is that like this?

[1494] Blunting estrogen.

[1495] A lot of the way hormones work is what they call the delta, the change.

[1496] Remember, estrogen primes progesterone.

[1497] And what does Mother Nature want?

[1498] Mother Nature wants that egg fertilized.

[1499] Right.

[1500] It's a limited number of them.

[1501] It's very wasteful in Mother Nature's eyes to shed a uterine lining, right?

[1502] It's very wasteful also to conceive every possible pregnancy, right?

[1503] Once you're down that path, it's nine months, typically, sometimes earlier, but typically nine months.

[1504] And just think about the life change, think about the brain changes that we know occur with pregnancy.

[1505] And the most metabolically demanding thing that any human being can experience is not pregnancy.

[1506] The greatest metabolic demands, you know, when you eat the most, lactation.

[1507] When you are lactating, it is immensely metabolically demanding.

[1508] Yeah, pregnancy, less so.

[1509] My friend, we were talking about the egg freezing podcast, and she was like, when I stopped breastfeeding, she's been so depressed.

[1510] It can change your hormones in a way that's, like, really wild, too.

[1511] Interestingly, I've seen someone go through high stem and be very emotional.

[1512] It kind of negative, and I've seen somebody go through high stem and feel great.

[1513] That's sort of where Liz has been in and out.

[1514] Because I felt fine, and then I felt, like, really sad.

[1515] Day two was, like, very bad for me. And then day three and four were okay, and then yesterday was kind of bad again.

[1516] And so it's been like up and down.

[1517] Every stimulation protocol is slightly different depending on the clinic and the person.

[1518] And so the whole system, the accelerators to the floor.

[1519] They're trying to create a hyper follicular phase.

[1520] So that's going to be estrogen primes progesterone.

[1521] So maybe they're ramping up your estrogen, LH, FSH, and they might be clamping estrogen.

[1522] They might not be.

[1523] So if estrogen is tonically high, remember, that's like birth control.

[1524] And then they're going to release that and then it'll prime progesterone.

[1525] It's an increase in estrogen that then primes the increase in progesterone.

[1526] So it's kind of goes up, up, blah, blah, then dips, and then progesterone, boom, goes up.

[1527] There are other factors in this.

[1528] And if anyone wants to see the charts of this, they're really beautiful.

[1529] You just can Google menstrual cycle and just go to images on Google.

[1530] People always get upset when I say Google it.

[1531] Is there really another search?

[1532] There's like duck, duck go.

[1533] Like what guys?

[1534] Is there one called Bing?

[1535] I'm from the Bay Area.

[1536] It's Google.

[1537] We're Googling.

[1538] Yeah, it's a Kleenex.

[1539] Yeah, exactly.

[1540] It's a Band -Aid.

[1541] Yeah, yeah.

[1542] Right.

[1543] Anyway.

[1544] So, you know, there's also interesting pheromone effects from having a partner there.

[1545] Like, I'm not asking about your current relationship status, but we know a number of things.

[1546] For instance, the smell of women's tears lowers testosterone.

[1547] No. Absolutely.

[1548] Paper published 2010 in Science Magazine, one of the three apex journals, Science Cell Nature, from Nome Sobel's Lab at the Weissman Institute in Israel.

[1549] That's, wow.

[1550] Yes.

[1551] I put it on Twitter.

[1552] Oh, my goodness.

[1553] The heat I took.

[1554] People are like, oh, well, that's because you're not supposed to have sex with someone if they're crying.

[1555] And I was I was like, you know, actually, I've seen people cry after sex.

[1556] In a good way.

[1557] Yeah, yeah, I've seen it.

[1558] Yeah, right, thank you for saying that.

[1559] It's crazy that the psychological interpretations that people put on these findings, let's just look at it as a snapshot of human biology.

[1560] That's humans, by the way.

[1561] There are other things, like the smell of your partner's clothing can shift your ovulation cycles.

[1562] Wow.

[1563] And whether or not it's pheromonal or purely smell isn't clear.

[1564] You know, I get dog piled.

[1565] Is it really pheromones?

[1566] It has a different definition than hormones.

[1567] You know, you get these really geeky scientists.

[1568] I guess I'm one of them that get upset when you say something like human pheromones.

[1569] Okay, it might be a smell, not a pheromone.

[1570] I've learned to just sort of inoculate these conversations, but I also say them because I do like to acknowledge that biology isn't simple.

[1571] Yeah.

[1572] So, you know, if you cry a lot, does that mean you reduced your partner's testosterone?

[1573] No, like, he may love being a caretaker, and if he can soothe you, great.

[1574] Exactly.

[1575] He or she.

[1576] So we've got the process, we've got libido.

[1577] Now, let's talk about freezing embryos.

[1578] Some, if a woman goes in after 42 or 43, they're not.

[1579] going to take your eggs.

[1580] They're only going to freeze embryos.

[1581] Let's imagine this hypothetical.

[1582] You meet what could be the most amazing partner and you're 42.

[1583] What do you do?

[1584] Like second date conversation is not, hey, you want to freeze some embryos?

[1585] Honestly.

[1586] I mean, it's kind of like hot date conversation, but what do you do?

[1587] You could get a sperm donor, but now you're fertilizing with someone else's sperm and you could fertilize.

[1588] And when you go together, there's a form and you sign a bunch of different agreements.

[1589] Sometimes it's even with a notary.

[1590] Let's say you and whoever you want to fertilize your eggs, go in there and you say, okay, what happens if we break up?

[1591] Yeah.

[1592] You make an agreement and you both have to agree.

[1593] Wow.

[1594] Do you get the fertilized embryos or can he have them if he wants?

[1595] What if one of you dies?

[1596] Yes.

[1597] So my best friend went through this process with her fiance and now they're married, but they were engaged at that time.

[1598] And yeah, she was like, oh, we had a big debate over that.

[1599] If I die, does he get to keep them and decide?

[1600] And I was like, well, I want to keep them as your best friend in case I want like another one of you just like floating around.

[1601] But that's a weird thing to think about.

[1602] Do you know anyone who's had their partner pass?

[1603] Do you know anyone in this case?

[1604] No. But they can extract sperm from a cadaver testes.

[1605] No. Yes.

[1606] You're allowed to do that to a dead person?

[1607] Do you have to like declare it before?

[1608] I'm sure there's something that goes into the legal part.

[1609] And I don't think they can be dead for like 10 years.

[1610] Yours what's interesting about donating sperm.

[1611] What happens is the egg extraction stuff is very controlled and you're trying to get it into the right what's called culture media.

[1612] Media is just the fluid that it sits in with a, a bunch of nutrients and all the goodies that normally would keep it alive in vivo in the body with sperm.

[1613] It's pretty funny because the process is, I may know someone who's done this, you go in and in the old days they would give you pornography.

[1614] A magazine, yeah.

[1615] Nowadays, it's like they don't do that.

[1616] They just put you in a room and they remind you you lock the door.

[1617] And they give you your phone.

[1618] And then you put the cup through the little window like you had given a urine sample or something.

[1619] And then they take it and they wash it because there's other bacteria.

[1620] and stuff in there and other things.

[1621] They're going to wash it and then they're going to freeze it.

[1622] And before they do that, they're going to look under the microscope and get some rough estimate of the count and the morphology, et cetera.

[1623] One thing I'll just say to guys, if you don't want to do it at the clinic, they can also just give you the cup.

[1624] You can do it at home.

[1625] Really?

[1626] That stuff can survive at room temperature for a very long time.

[1627] That's what I was going to ask.

[1628] I thought it died, like, quick.

[1629] As long as it's kept warm enough, but not too warm, it's about four hours.

[1630] Oh, wow.

[1631] But you don't want to take your time.

[1632] Right.

[1633] Right.

[1634] But I've seen this process happen where someone gives a sperm and say, well, they kind of And, you know, they're talking to the receptionist.

[1635] Like, hey, I brought my sperm sample.

[1636] And they're like, oh, they take it out in front of everybody.

[1637] Oh, my God.

[1638] Name.

[1639] They're like, oh, yeah, no, totally.

[1640] Right.

[1641] And then they'll put it on the counter sometimes and they're just talking to.

[1642] And you're kind of pointing at like, do you want to get that on ice?

[1643] Can you?

[1644] Can you?

[1645] Yeah.

[1646] Why do I say this?

[1647] Again, are we trying to create entertainment here?

[1648] No. What we're trying to do is illustrate that the stability of sperm at room temperature is incredible.

[1649] And the stability of sperm in the body is incredible.

[1650] This is why, kids.

[1651] folks, you can't just get pregnant on the day that you ovulate.

[1652] Sperm can survive in the vagina for a long time.

[1653] 72 hours?

[1654] That's what I've heard of it.

[1655] Yeah, and it sort of depends on the conditions and the health of the sperm and the vaginal conditions.

[1656] The vagina, a positive environment for the sperm to survive because it feels like it's warm but not warm too warm.

[1657] Everything about this was optimized.

[1658] I'm not saying sex is only for pregnancy, but I have a good friend who's a cardiologist and one time we were talking about the withdrawal method, also called pulling out.

[1659] Pulling out, yeah.

[1660] And he said, you know, you have to be very careful with the withdrawal method.

[1661] And I said, yes, I realized that.

[1662] And he said, and I said, why?

[1663] Is it because of the sort of pre -jaculate?

[1664] And he goes, well, yeah.

[1665] But, you know, the main reason is it doesn't work very well because it was designed not to work.

[1666] Right.

[1667] The whole process is about getting pregnant.

[1668] And so, of course, there are people that can avoid pregnancy for long periods of time.

[1669] People have varying levels of control around that.

[1670] And, you know, it can be better at it or not.

[1671] That's a knife -edge approach, right?

[1672] Whereas like condom contraception and, you know, obviously multiple layers of contraception is going to be best.

[1673] If your goal is to not get pregnant, obviously.

[1674] So they're going to take the sperm, they're then going to wash it, and then they're either going to freeze or they're going to fertilize those eggs.

[1675] If they fertilize those eggs, then they can screen them for all the chromosomal abnormalities that do increase in frequency as people get older.

[1676] Now, that said, there are many women who are in their 40s who have high follicle count, but that still could have chromosomal abnormalities in the resulting embryo.

[1677] There are many women who have low follicle count who create incredibly healthy embryos with very few or no chromosome abnormalities.

[1678] This is an interesting important.

[1679] So for women that are afraid to get their follicle count, just understand that at the end of the day, what do you want?

[1680] Healthy embryo.

[1681] How many follicles you have is related to the probability of getting that, but not in any direct way.

[1682] So there are a number of other factors.

[1683] They're going to measure your AMH levels.

[1684] AMH is a sort of broad measure of how well the whole overall cycle is primed for fertilization.

[1685] Got it has some other functions as well.

[1686] You know, they're going to take a number of these different measures.

[1687] So it's a collection of different things.

[1688] One reason I was excited to come on this podcast to talk about this when you wrote to me, Monica, was that there's a lot of stigma around all this.

[1689] Yeah.

[1690] There's a lot of uncomfortable conversation that happens.

[1691] And I can tell you as somebody in his, you know, I'll be 47 next month.

[1692] I've had partners of varying age.

[1693] And it's one of these things where I have friends who've had a ton of trouble conceiving.

[1694] friends that's like, no trouble conceiving, you want to know where you're at with this stuff.

[1695] Yeah, it's true.

[1696] And I think it would be great to remove some of the stigma around just going in.

[1697] And for males, get your testosterone checked.

[1698] By the way, also get your estrogen check.

[1699] For women, get your follicle count done.

[1700] Just get it done.

[1701] Also, you can keep it private.

[1702] You don't have to go on a podcast and talk about it if you want, right?

[1703] You can.

[1704] You're very bold.

[1705] And I actually do want to give you both credit.

[1706] I just want to give you a knob because it takes a certain kind of bravery to go out there and say, like, hey, I'm doing this.

[1707] and it's challenging.

[1708] It's like suppressing libido.

[1709] And then there's these associations with like low follicle count.

[1710] And I wouldn't even call that low, but sort of modern follicle count.

[1711] And so I'm saying at the end of the day, you want to know how many healthy embryos you get.

[1712] So I have a question for each of you.

[1713] Yes.

[1714] Are you going to fertilize any of these eggs?

[1715] Are you just going to freeze these eggs?

[1716] I'm just freezing for now.

[1717] Are you going to do a couple rounds?

[1718] I think so.

[1719] Great.

[1720] I'm definitely at least going to do two.

[1721] I'm going to get off the birth control for some period.

[1722] my doctor said for months minimal.

[1723] Yep.

[1724] I'll do it again.

[1725] We'll see what I get combined.

[1726] I don't have anyone to, as Dax would say, spray my eggs.

[1727] Is that what he says?

[1728] Yep.

[1729] Of course he does.

[1730] Spray my eggs and I'm not ready to have a donor do it yet.

[1731] Even though I hear what you're saying, it's best time.

[1732] Well, you've got time, right?

[1733] Yeah.

[1734] You've got time.

[1735] This podcast is called Race to 35 because I turn 35 at the end of this month and Liz just turned 35.

[1736] Okay, so you are in a position to fertilize really healthy young eggs.

[1737] Yeah.

[1738] I'm also doing it the Monica way.

[1739] Yeah, I just started seeing someone, but, like, I would be very weird to ask if he wants to spray my eggs.

[1740] I may ask how old he is?

[1741] He is 32.

[1742] So if he wants to go donate sperm and just freeze them, those sperm are probably going to be better at 32 than they will at 45.

[1743] And he would freeze them inside my things.

[1744] If you wanted Oh, he would just freeze it.

[1745] They just put some samples on ice.

[1746] So you don't have to be like, will you spray my eggs?

[1747] You should just do it.

[1748] Just to have them.

[1749] Yeah.

[1750] It could be a fun date.

[1751] Actually, here's the cool thing about the cup method at home.

[1752] You can actually partake in that.

[1753] Oh, that's fun.

[1754] Right?

[1755] It's not him in some room like looking at his phone or...

[1756] I love what you're saying.

[1757] And I went on a date with a guy who founded one of the few kind of startups that encourages and offers sperm freezing.

[1758] And he told me, men have a biological clock, too.

[1759] And we really kind of focus so much on women's biological clock.

[1760] And again, to your point, women are focused on our bodies, how all of it is operating.

[1761] I think a lot of men don't even think that it really matters.

[1762] But he said in cases of fertility, one third is the woman.

[1763] One third is both partners, but one third is the man. And so, but don't you think it would like stress out?

[1764] Because we don't talk about men's biological clock, a woman suggesting that is seen as so maybe crazy, right, when it's actually.

[1765] not.

[1766] I'm not on dating apps, but I think this should be a box that you click on the day.

[1767] In all seriousness, I think if someone told me they really wanted my sperm, we're going to put it on ice, no one's going to use it unless you authorize it.

[1768] I think that touch it touches.

[1769] It touches on a primal cord.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] Absolutely.

[1773] If someone was like wanted my eggs, I probably wouldn't give, but I'd be, oh, you know, depend, but I would be flattered.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] I mean, there's nothing, there's nothing hot about having a newborn and changing diapers and all that.

[1776] But fertilization, let's It's hot.

[1777] It was designed.

[1778] I mean, again, I don't believe in intelligence as I'm just saying, and I always say, I wasn't consulted design phase, so I don't know any of this.

[1779] If anyone tells you they're consulted design phase, turn and run.

[1780] But, you know, Mother Nature arranged all this in a very interesting way that links psychology and biology.

[1781] It's not maybe second date conversation, but here are a couple things, and this might be a good segue for us to talk about men and sperm health and some things to, aside from being careful about heat.

[1782] Is younger sperm better than older sperm.

[1783] Not necessarily, maybe by sheer volume, number of sperm.

[1784] Now, here's the thing.

[1785] So typical number of sperm, the numbers very tremendously might be like, you know, 100 million per mill, mill liter, but can be as low as 10 million per mill liter.

[1786] And then let's be honest here, the number of milliliters per ejaculate is going to vary tremendously from person to person and from ejaculate to ejaculate.

[1787] Is the amount that comes out, is it correlated with how much pleasure you're having.

[1788] Oh.

[1789] Oh, that's a great.

[1790] Haven't run that experiment precisely.

[1791] I think it will correlate with how long it's been since your previous ejaculation.

[1792] That's why guys like edge.

[1793] What?

[1794] You know, edging.

[1795] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1796] Where they're like getting on the brink and then stopping so that by the time they do ejaculate, it's like huge.

[1797] There are even supplements that people will take with lecithin and things like that to increase ejector.

[1798] Yeah, you know, it's different now, I think, because I grew up before, internet and so pornography was consumed by you know video VHS or by magazine I'll be really honest I wasn't a big consumer of pornography just wasn't right I feel very lucky actually that I didn't have an addiction or a kind of fixation on it but I knew people that did but nowadays because of the ready availability of pornography and the expectation on like you know sort of ejaculate volume and sexual behaviors it's it's tricky I mean there's also there's a shift towards more extreme and violent and there are experts on this I'm not an expert but there are their academic experts on this that understand the research.

[1799] It's a whole landscape.

[1800] But yeah, I think that that's an obsession for certain people.

[1801] I mean, the edging thing is kind of interesting because that also speaks to ejaculate control, which is, you know, in neuroscience terms, we call it top -down control, which is the ability to use your brain to suppress reflexes.

[1802] Interesting.

[1803] And there's all sorts of things from tantra and things about exhaling very long to relax the nervous system in order to avoid any kind of stress response.

[1804] So keep in mind that in men and women, the sexual arousal phase, so lubrication of the vagina or erection of the penis is actually governed by being primarily parasympathetic, more relaxed.

[1805] But ejaculation in males and orgasm in both males and females is a sympathetic driven response, not sympathy as in emotions, but it's the stress component of the nervous system.

[1806] And then there's a strong relaxation that follows, probably to encourage partners to stay put and pair bond and share, you know, pillow talk and smells.

[1807] And, you know, I mean, look, If you love the smell of your partner's armpits, and I know many that do, they just love the smell of their partner's skin or their hair.

[1808] Yeah.

[1809] Yeah, that stuff is wired in typically in the post -coital bliss phase, right?

[1810] Or, you know, and this mate recognition, these things are important.

[1811] Well, when you came on our show, I'll never forget this.

[1812] Dax and I've talked about it multiple times.

[1813] You came in and then, you know, we all shook hands and stuff.

[1814] And then in the podcast, you said, we've probably all smelled our hands since we touched.

[1815] That's right.

[1816] We're exchanging chemicals.

[1817] Another paper from Noam Sobel.

[1818] group at the Weissman Institute has shown that when we meet people, we tend to touch them.

[1819] This is pre -COVID, but especially when we touch them, we shake hands typically, and then we tend to wipe those chemicals on our face, typically on our eyes.

[1820] We're exchanging molecules all the time.

[1821] On purpose.

[1822] Yeah, probably in a sort of subconscious signaling of, you know, people's immune status and people's hormone status.

[1823] And we're not aware of it.

[1824] You know, I didn't come here, shake your hand outside and then, oh, you know, she's doing a cycle of IVF.

[1825] Or a cycle of egg retrieval.

[1826] as it's called.

[1827] But sperm health.

[1828] So, you know, guys don't get kicked in the testicles.

[1829] If you skateboard or BMX or rollerblade, don't fall on a handrail.

[1830] I knew guys growing up that did that, just know the risks.

[1831] Don't be the idiot that jumps over the pole like the pole hop and then lands on the thing or climbs the cyclone fence.

[1832] You know, damage, physical damage.

[1833] Okay, those things aside, sperm health is going to be facilitated again by all the things, sleep, exercise, low stress, et cetera, sleep especially for in terms of testosterone and sperm production.

[1834] We talked about some things related to sperm to L -carnatine, again, the two grams per day.

[1835] Taking it orally by capsule, you're going to need to take quite a lot, two to four grams per day, injectable, again, only through prescription for a doctor, maybe two grams per day.

[1836] Those are doing injections.

[1837] Maybe the Shilogy data are interesting to you.

[1838] Here's the thing.

[1839] A lot of guys, especially in their 40s, but now even in their 30s, are doing testosterone replacement therapy, TRT.

[1840] We talked about this a little bit last time.

[1841] And even some women are doing TRT.

[1842] Testosterone placement therapy is injections of either small or larger amounts of testosterone.

[1843] Sometimes it's a pellet that you implant under the skin.

[1844] Sometimes it's a cream that they'll put on their scrotum, by the way.

[1845] That's actually quite concerning because then if their partner touches it, she's getting that stuff.

[1846] It goes transdermal.

[1847] Be careful.

[1848] There's been in cases of women getting facial hair growth or children getting facial hair growth from touching their dads who are taking the andro cream.

[1849] Yep.

[1850] Be careful.

[1851] There are also been cases of young boys getting breastbud development from touching their moms who are taking evening primrose oil, which is highly estrogenic.

[1852] Oh, yeah.

[1853] oh my so you know taking testosterone exogenously from outside the body yes it'll help them gain muscle lose fat their libido will go up but it will plummet their sperm production and testosterone production because the body and brain has ways of monitoring how much testosterone is circulating and if there's a lot of it it's not going to signal lh to go make more so what happens guys who want to maintain fertility on t rt will take hcg human corionic and antrop and also called pregnal every other day or so or maybe twice a week, they'll inject predile to stimulate the testes to continue to produce testosterone.

[1854] They'll sometimes even take FSA.

[1855] Wow.

[1856] Yeah.

[1857] So last time I was on here, I talked about TRT.

[1858] I did an experiment with TRT and then decided to move off it.

[1859] It was an experiment for a book that I'm working on.

[1860] I thought I should experience that.

[1861] And sure, you see your sperm counts reduced.

[1862] I can attest to this that you can, sorry.

[1863] It's everywhere.

[1864] Sorry.

[1865] No, we can't avoid I can assess this, that taking pregnant HCG will offset some of that reduction in sperm count.

[1866] And then if you take FSH, it will really bolster that sperm count, even if you're taking testosterone.

[1867] However, keep in mind, guys, because here we're talking to guys, if you're going to get on TRT, there are a couple things you probably want to do first.

[1868] First of all, if your testosterone is already high enough, don't get on TRT.

[1869] Don't be a moron.

[1870] Because you might want to have kids later.

[1871] If you are going to have a vasectomy, a lot of guys are now doing that young because they just don't want to have to wear condoms.

[1872] Yeah, this is becoming much more common because they are reversible but not always and not always perfectly reversible or they're getting on TRT, they actually require you to give a sperm sample and they freeze it down.

[1873] So if you're thinking about doing this for medical reasons or other reasons and it can help with depression and things like that, they should freeze down a bunch of sperm.

[1874] It helps with depression?

[1875] Testosterone.

[1876] It really can.

[1877] It makes effort feel good.

[1878] It's related to the dopamine system.

[1879] You don't want to take too much of it.

[1880] And again, to optimize testosterone, it should be sunlight, nutrition, sleep, training, supplementation.

[1881] And only then if you need it, testosterone replacement therapy or testosterone augmentation therapy.

[1882] Because a lot of guys, their ranges are healthy, but they want that boost.

[1883] And some people do really well on it and feel great.

[1884] Dax and I talked about this.

[1885] Some people will get tons of acne and feel lousy.

[1886] We're talking here about steroids, right?

[1887] It's a steroid hormone.

[1888] But mind you, estrogen is a steroid hormone, too.

[1889] You're on steroids right now.

[1890] Yeah.

[1891] Doesn't mean you're on anabolic steroids, but you're on steroid hormones.

[1892] Cortisol is a corticosterone, right?

[1893] And so if your testosterone level is lower, as a woman, does that mean that maybe you get more stressed?

[1894] Is that connected?

[1895] Yeah, it's associated generally with resiliency.

[1896] So if guys are going to use testosterone, just to know that you can disrupt your sperm.

[1897] Every guy who takes testosterone has a reduction in testicular size to some degree or another, some less, some more.

[1898] And of course, guys are starting out with different sized testicles.

[1899] Some of that can be offset.

[1900] Maybe all of it can be offset, close to all of it, by things like HCG.

[1901] Again, these are prescription drugs.

[1902] So be cautious.

[1903] So let's just take the example of this young gentleman that you're dating now.

[1904] It's early days.

[1905] But let's say, I'm going to assume because he's in his 30s, he's not taking testosterone, although nowadays there are a lot of guys in their 20s and 30s.

[1906] And I'm guessing that his circulating testosterone is just fine.

[1907] I have to imagine he's fit and takes good care of himself.

[1908] I'm going to guess that if we did a blood draw, he'd have healthy levels of testosterone.

[1909] Now it would be a great time for him to put some sperm on ice.

[1910] Because when he's 45, if he wants to have a couple more kids or maybe or donate sperm or have a family, then he's got the sperm there.

[1911] ask a guy to give his sperm in a way they will make him feel good about himself and not fear you and like get nervous and neurotic i mean i don't think i'm going to do it but say if it were you let's say if it were you curious yeah how should women bring it up when i was younger i definitely wanted to avoid having children because i didn't have the means to take care of a family at that age i just didn't right i was in graduate school a junior professor you know i watched friends of mine who started labs and have kids just struggle so much more and sleepless nights and they didn't have time for workouts.

[1912] I just was like, I want to be an old dad.

[1913] I'm like, I'm being an old dad.

[1914] I know officially qualify as old.

[1915] You're there.

[1916] I'm 47.

[1917] I mean, it's, it's going to be older dad.

[1918] So from my psychology, if a woman says, I really want your sperm, there are fewer things that actually, actually put the emphasis on your.

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] Let's run this.

[1921] all different ways.

[1922] If it's, I want your sperm, that's a little weird.

[1923] If it's, I want your sperm, that's a kind of interesting one.

[1924] If it's, I want your sperm, that's interesting.

[1925] And then if it's, I want your sperm, that, sorry, I don't know why I laughed on that one.

[1926] That's a very, each one of those things means something different.

[1927] So, and this is going to be highly individual, but some guys might hear that and think, wow, that's scary.

[1928] This person is over their skis.

[1929] but it depends on the phase of the relationship.

[1930] Also depends on the moment when you say that.

[1931] When is it best?

[1932] When is it post?

[1933] No, that's the worst time, don't you think?

[1934] What are we talking about?

[1935] Post -coital?

[1936] That's what you're about to ask, right?

[1937] Well, post -coital, if someone says, thank you for your sperm.

[1938] Oh, my God.

[1939] I'm so grateful for your sperm.

[1940] Oh, God.

[1941] Yeah, I mean, here, I don't want to go political just because I don't want to deal.

[1942] But we're also dealing with a landscape in which unwanted pregnancy and what one can do about that varies tremendously by location.

[1943] I think even the Plan B, the morning after pill, that whole thing.

[1944] I mean, contraception is going to become the topic.

[1945] Yes, exactly.

[1946] And so withdrawal method, condoms, combination, you know, hormonal birth control, et cetera, vasectomy.

[1947] I think a lot of guys are getting vasectomies now.

[1948] No, they are.

[1949] I interviewed a bunch of them.

[1950] And I think men should be buying Plan B in the way that they buy condoms and just have it in their homes because also they're not being tracked as much.

[1951] There's a lot of data and privacy things.

[1952] There's a lot of things that men can do right now that actually would help their female partners a lot.

[1953] Yeah.

[1954] Yeah, I think it depends on the nature of the relationship.

[1955] I mean, to me, what bigger project can you have with somebody than to want to start a family together?

[1956] It's very primal.

[1957] You want someone's DNA.

[1958] Are you more attracted to someone whose DNA you're better matched with?

[1959] Like the pheromone thing, again, there's a vagina happiness, but there's also, like, something else.

[1960] And people say, oh, if there's fireworks and it's all that, so that means they're, like, bad for you.

[1961] Like, where do you fall on that?

[1962] So there's a, um, there are data that show that animals and people will select the partner whose smell represents the most different immune status so that together you have the largest immune right, histocomatibility complex.

[1963] It's an MHC.

[1964] That said, there are a lot of reasons why people pair up.

[1965] Will he be a good provider?

[1966] Will she be a good provider?

[1967] Are you attracted to them physically?

[1968] You know, there is this idea that when things take off, you know, hot and fast, that it's a problem but having been in a number of different relationships in my life and you know some are like zero to 60 in a minute and some are zero to 60 across years some are zero to 100 across years it's so variable and it's so time of life yeah again i'll just because it's safe to just use myself as an example i always knew i wanted kids someday but the whole mindset around wanting children didn't really kick in until fairly recently i'll be honest another reason why i was like wow i can't believe this email came in for this podcast because, I mean, I didn't think that I had a biological clock, but I've been spending a lot of time around people who have kids recently, and it hit like a tidal way.

[1969] It's like, I don't think about it in terms of any one thing, pregnancy or conception or, you know, I think about like kids, like I want a family, I want a litter, I want a whole litter, you know, and it's weird to just feel that way because it's just something that you don't say lightly.

[1970] Totally.

[1971] Us too.

[1972] We've had this exact same discussion.

[1973] And some girls are five years old and they're like, I'm meant to be a mom.

[1974] They're playing dolls.

[1975] Like, it's in them.

[1976] It is like really in them.

[1977] And I've never ever had that.

[1978] It's career and this and my own privacy, like my own solitude and stuff.

[1979] And now I'm like, I think I'm there.

[1980] I know women that lactate when they hold babies.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] Even if they're not pregnant.

[1983] Exactly.

[1984] They don't do it immediately.

[1985] Yeah.

[1986] I know someone who did not want kids but then had a kid and just loves being a mom.

[1987] I have a close family member who adopted, and it really flipped on the just love of children and a maternal instinct.

[1988] This whole conversation really hits home because my family was at the U .N. now.

[1989] There have been so many marriages and divorces and remarriages to people.

[1990] It's like you look at my family, Thanksgiving is pretty interesting because it's like, and some of these people used to not be able to be in the same room, and now everyone gets along pretty well.

[1991] Thank goodness for therapy.

[1992] But it's just incredible.

[1993] So many countries and configurations represent.

[1994] and you see all of it, we are wired for family of some sort.

[1995] Now, that could be a person and their partner in a dog.

[1996] It could be their person in their dog.

[1997] That's a form of non -sexual family, right?

[1998] I think that there are biological timers, and I think men have them too.

[1999] And I think that it probably also relates to life position and status.

[2000] You know, I want to be able to take care of the people in my life.

[2001] And so when I couldn't, I had less of an orientation towards kids.

[2002] In fact, I was always like, oh, goodness, like whatever happens or not going to have a kid.

[2003] And that's a terrible message to send someone because it makes it sound like I wouldn't want a kid with you, but actually what you're saying is, I'm not in a position to take care of that kid.

[2004] And then later, when you have a position and take care of the kid, there's this whole set of adjustments that goes with learning how to even have a conversation about that.

[2005] And, you know, some people, conception is incredibly arousing for them, the idea of conceiving.

[2006] And so sex for them becomes about that and that excitement.

[2007] Look, there's so many factors to this.

[2008] I don't think we can pinpoint to study.

[2009] But I think that we should just acknowledge the variability and not just between people, but across the lifespan.

[2010] And I bet you that this egg extraction process is going to have a profound impact on the way that you think about relationship and relationship trajectory.

[2011] How could it not?

[2012] Exactly.

[2013] You're placing your DNA there for the specific purpose of replicating that DNA with somebody else.

[2014] While you're on the hormones, like what is a brain on hormones?

[2015] Is it a brain that is, like we were talking about this?

[2016] First we were like, what is real?

[2017] What is real?

[2018] Like, what can we trust?

[2019] Can we trust?

[2020] any of the thoughts in our?

[2021] Yes.

[2022] And is it a little bit like being drunk, right, where people will say there's a kernel of truth, right?

[2023] What you say when you're drunk, which again, might or may not be true, but I do think it'll be a little bit of a truth serum.

[2024] And with hormones, is it the same?

[2025] Because I'm having a lot of thoughts about a lot of things.

[2026] And again, I've had more of an emotional roller coaster than Monica.

[2027] It's been really fascinating because I've had a lot of very clarifying thoughts about relationships, about even this person I'm dating, but like, can I trust my thoughts on the hormones?

[2028] Let me start in the psychological side and then I'll migrate over the biology.

[2029] Okay.

[2030] So the great Carl Jung, right, one of Freud's disciples, and who had their own independent theories, of course, had a wonderful saying that I subscribe to at least, which is that we all have all things inside of us, meaning every one of us can be a sociopath, Stanford Prisoner Experiment spoke to that, Nazi Germany spoke to that.

[2031] Are all of us Mother Teresa's, maybe, maybe not?

[2032] Do we have the circuitry?

[2033] We do.

[2034] Some people actually try out a bunch of different versions of themselves.

[2035] Some people have hormonal fluctuations that give them access to what it is to be hyper irritable.

[2036] Yeah.

[2037] Hyper aroused.

[2038] Libito suppressed.

[2039] Experiencing all those things.

[2040] So is it the hormones?

[2041] Well, there are a lot of different kinds of hormones, but steroid hormones, estrogen, testosterone.

[2042] They cross the blood brain barrier.

[2043] So they come from the ovaries in y 'all and the testes in males.

[2044] And they cross the blood brain barrier.

[2045] And they have two major effects.

[2046] They have the immediate effects because they can park on the outside of cells and receptors and do things like change the texture of skin for estrogen, right?

[2047] Change the amount of hair growth.

[2048] Beard growth is from a hormone called dihydrotestosterone converted from testosterone.

[2049] So it's the same thing that calls is balding.

[2050] So it has different effects on the face and on that head.

[2051] So you see guys with a back of the head balding spot, a lot of D .HT.

[2052] Dihydrate testosterone receptors there.

[2053] Guys are the more Widows Peak thing.

[2054] I always wanted that.

[2055] Have you ever had to Ed Harris on this podcast?

[2056] No, I love him, though.

[2057] Who doesn't love that?

[2058] When I was growing up, I saw that guy.

[2059] a couple of movies and I was like, when I grew up, I want to be bald like him.

[2060] But bald like him, meaning like the widows peak, it's a certain pattern of dihydro testosterone.

[2061] Interesting.

[2062] So it crosses the blood brain barrier, has these immediate effects, okay?

[2063] Estrogen therapy, you have an immediate effect.

[2064] But then the amazing thing about steroid hormones is there what's called lipid soluble.

[2065] They can cross the membranes of cells, which the membranes of every cell are made up by this double fatty layer.

[2066] It's like two low fats, phospholipid layer.

[2067] And they can actually enter the nucleus of cells and change the DNA.

[2068] of cells.

[2069] They can change your DNA.

[2070] And this is interesting because puberty is a good example of when steroids released from the ovaries and girls and from the testes in males, cross the blood brain barrier, and change the brain from one that thinks about butterflies and unicorns.

[2071] You know, little kids are kind of similar, right?

[2072] And suddenly it's like attractions and acne, moods.

[2073] And so is hormone brain a real thing?

[2074] Absolutely.

[2075] And there are short -term effects.

[2076] And then there are permanent effects.

[2077] But after puberty, the permanent effects of hormones are not going to be that robust, except under conditions where hormones are very low or very high for long periods of time.

[2078] So people who take testosterone for a while, male or female, will start to feel better and more energetic, less stressed.

[2079] But it's going to have other effects as well.

[2080] You get more oily skin.

[2081] It's why guys get acne, women too, and women who take any testosterone.

[2082] And sometimes women will take a very low dose of testosterone to increase libido and vigor, but they sometimes will get a little bit of facial hair growth.

[2083] Right now, of course, the big controversy in the trans kids movement is a very hot topic nowadays on social media, but there are a lot of clinics popping up around the country, like how early to do that?

[2084] There's a huge, hugely controversial topic, but it relates to do you do this before puberty, during puberty, or after puberty?

[2085] I don't have data on that, but this is going to be one of the major questions of our time because of a nine -year -old who hasn't hit puberty says they want to transition.

[2086] What do you do?

[2087] Do you let them do it then or do you do it later?

[2088] Is it early or better?

[2089] There's some experts on this that would be amazing to talk to.

[2090] So hormones shift the way that you view the world.

[2091] When testosterone is elevated over baseline, typically effort feels good.

[2092] You feel like you can lean into things a bit more.

[2093] When cortisol is high, you feel stressed, but you also are more resilient.

[2094] You can ward off infection.

[2095] I'm not saying about males versus females, but when there's an increase in estrogen, do people feel a little bit more emotional?

[2096] Yeah, of course, but that's true of men and women.

[2097] And is it connected to dopamine and serotonin?

[2098] It is.

[2099] So the hypothalamus is this structure right above the roof of mouth that is about the size of, you know, a large gobb stopper candy.

[2100] And it houses neurons, nerve cells for temperature regulation, for libido, for aggression.

[2101] Those neurons both produce and are highly sensitive to hormones.

[2102] Got it.

[2103] So testosterone and dopamine tend to kind of go hand in hand.

[2104] When testosterone and dopamine go down, prolactin goes up.

[2105] Prolactin is a hormone that is associated with milk letdown and nursing and lactation.

[2106] It also lays body fat down in both males and females.

[2107] So dads, you know, you've heard of the dad bod.

[2108] Dads who conceive, you know, you have a new child.

[2109] Oftentimes they'll put on a little bit of weight.

[2110] Yeah.

[2111] And that's probably prolactin related, the smell of their child's skin.

[2112] Libido in the early days of after a kid is born, if the couple are spending a lot of time together and around the kid, oftentimes the libidos of both will be diminished.

[2113] That's normal.

[2114] Not always, but a lot of times why?

[2115] Well, their focus really needs to be on raising that kid, not on creating more kids, especially at that moment.

[2116] There's all sorts of hormone effects depending on the hormone.

[2117] So, yeah, I think is there hormone brain?

[2118] I mean, I think that's kind of a broad sweep.

[2119] I think some of us manage stress better.

[2120] Some of us are more in tune with these things too.

[2121] Yeah.

[2122] Right?

[2123] And I think what's beautiful is when I can say this, is when a partner says, I'm heading into this phase of my cycle or a guy will say, I'm stressed or I'm sleep deprived, I'm a little bit edgier.

[2124] Know thyself, right?

[2125] The Oracle had it, right?

[2126] and being able to communicate that well can be helpful.

[2127] It's a terrible faux pa to say, oh, that's just your hormone speaking, right?

[2128] But let's just acknowledge that hormones are like stress, are like sleep.

[2129] They strongly modulate our brain and our psychology.

[2130] By the way, we should mention, after the retrieval is when they say it can have the most emotional side effects because there's a drop in hormones.

[2131] I don't know if you've heard about this.

[2132] Oh, yeah.

[2133] It's like a postpartum depression of sorts.

[2134] So that's what made me nervous show is like, oh my God, I'm already a little cuckoo.

[2135] Be careful.

[2136] not to anticipate it so much that you ensure that it happens.

[2137] So if it happens, it happens and be aware of it it, but also that's a time to get a little bit more sunshine.

[2138] Okay, yeah.

[2139] To make sure you're socially connected.

[2140] To make sure that you're nourishing properly.

[2141] There's this kind of runaway train around depressive states and sleep -deprived states that feeds on itself and sometimes not in the positive way.

[2142] Yes, you end up isolating.

[2143] Because yeah, as soon yesterday I was feeling a loopy and then I can't do my own shot, so Monica has to do them.

[2144] So I go to Monica's and then within the first five minutes.

[2145] I mean, we had an accident.

[2146] My tripod fell on us.

[2147] And then by the time I left, I was fine.

[2148] I'm not just lying in bed watching Sex and City reruns and, you know, just social connections.

[2149] Yeah.

[2150] Eating food I'm not supposed to eat because it's processed.

[2151] And, you know, there's all that stuff too where I feel like you're failing at it.

[2152] Or I didn't sleep well.

[2153] So it's the self -ful thing where you feel like you're going to then ruin what you're doing.

[2154] So you're not going to ruin these eggs by one night of poor night's sleep.

[2155] Or by, you know, one stressful episode.

[2156] I mean, again, And think about some of the conditions under which people conceive.

[2157] Famine is one thing.

[2158] But again, I know people who, like, two days before they broke up, discovered they were pregnant.

[2159] Does this seem to be a relationship between, like, breakup sex and getting pregnant?

[2160] I mean, I have a friend.

[2161] Well, aggression.

[2162] Oh, that's interesting.

[2163] I have a friend who they had a baby.

[2164] They were married, separated, divorce, had sex once.

[2165] Oops.

[2166] Didn't get back to it.

[2167] They just had sex.

[2168] And then they had a second baby from that one time.

[2169] Did they stay together?

[2170] No, but they kept the second baby.

[2171] Yeah.

[2172] Yeah, maybe there is something.

[2173] There might be something.

[2174] It's on my story.

[2175] I realize we should touch on different ways to deal with embryos.

[2176] So they can be implanted back into what they call the host mom.

[2177] So back into you, you can carry them.

[2178] Or a surrogate.

[2179] Yeah, or you can put them into a surrogate.

[2180] And there are going to be epigenetic effects, like in utero effects.

[2181] What does that surrogate eat?

[2182] How healthy is your gut microbiome?

[2183] Are they abstaining from alcohol?

[2184] What are their genetics?

[2185] Right?

[2186] There's a lot of stuff that crosses the blood placental barrier.

[2187] some people opt to not carry it because they don't want to carry it.

[2188] Maybe for work it's not convenient.

[2189] Maybe they don't want that done to their body.

[2190] Maybe they take a certain class of antidepressant or other drug that they really don't want to go off because they're going to be unhealthy.

[2191] A lot of reasons one could do that.

[2192] There's also the situation where people can't conceive and so what happens as eggs age, I should mention this, because this points to some new technology.

[2193] As eggs age, if you fertilize them, the chromosomal abnormalities, almost always, not always, but almost are due to things that are happening outside the nucleus of the cell.

[2194] The nucleus of cell contains most of the DNA of a cell, all the genetic information for replicating and creating a human or any other cell.

[2195] Spirm obviously makes into the egg and then the DNA combine and then they recombine it, et cetera, get multiple cells.

[2196] The process of the fertilized egg becoming an embryo involves cleaving of that egg.

[2197] It actually has to pull apart.

[2198] And a lot of that has to do with these spindles, which are really, really cool.

[2199] They're like these prongs of biological material that, essentially rip the thing apart and then you end up with two nuclei, nuclei being the plural nucleus.

[2200] And as eggs age, it appears that the mitochondrial DNA and the spindles are what create some of the chromosome abnormalities because the spindles aren't pulling things apart properly.

[2201] Okay, because the chromosomes have to mix.

[2202] You get some chromosomes from dad and some chromosomes from mom.

[2203] One of the reasons why the efforts to improve egg health as women age includes things like glucothione, ubiquinol, NEMN, things of that sort, is because those are antioxidants and other things that impact mitochondrial health.

[2204] So you're trying to improve the health of the mitochondria.

[2205] I should also mention there is some interesting data on acupuncture for pregnancy and egg health and sperm health.

[2206] If you Google fertility and like green lamps, you're going to get something, someone selling something.

[2207] So you need to be aware of that.

[2208] But there's red light therapy.

[2209] There's all sorts of interesting things.

[2210] So whether or not they work or not, whether or not there's peer -reviewed studies varies.

[2211] But there are some interesting data about acupuncture and pregnancy.

[2212] Our friend is here.

[2213] Of course he went long.

[2214] He's teaching us so much.

[2215] We're talking about hot tubs.

[2216] He has too much information.

[2217] So much.

[2218] I told him you conceived in a hot tub and that made you a superman because most times the hot tub's bad for sperm.

[2219] Sperm doesn't like to be in a hot tub.

[2220] But it's a 60 -day sperm.

[2221] CycleDax.

[2222] So whatever sperm created that child was...

[2223] Bold as hell.

[2224] Was born before you went in the hot tub.

[2225] You know, we don't want to get into the mechanics of this, but conceived in a hot tub can mean many different things.

[2226] In the hot tub.

[2227] Were you guys like outside of the hot tub or in the water?

[2228] Okay, listen, I want to first say that it's a terrible idea to have sex in a hot tub.

[2229] It seems romantic.

[2230] You're like, well, this is going to be so great.

[2231] And you think, oh, there's liquid in there.

[2232] Nah.

[2233] It's an answer.

[2234] Someone who has tried it.

[2235] It's an anti -lubricant.

[2236] So we had long sworn off any kind of hot tub sex, pool sex, ocean sex.

[2237] Got it.

[2238] But it's just so...

[2239] Shower?

[2240] Uh, shower you can probably get away with if you're aiming the water correctly.

[2241] But the point is we had had just a horrendous week of fighting to the point where I was like, well, I'm going to bail out of this vacation early.

[2242] Let's pack up.

[2243] Oh.

[2244] Oh, what?

[2245] Break up.

[2246] What happened?

[2247] What happened?

[2248] Break up?

[2249] No, we had mentioned breakup sex, like, often leading to pregnancy.

[2250] And then we were like, we got to do a study on, like, what is the chemical getting released specifically in that?

[2251] I always think of you guys as never fighting, never having any arguments.

[2252] Hold on.

[2253] This is, this is bursting my bubble.

[2254] This was eight and a half years ago with a one -year -old.

[2255] So, yeah, we had to figure out how to get through that.

[2256] But at any rate, and we're not make -up sex people.

[2257] But in this event, we happen to make.

[2258] up we're in the hot tub and the next thing you know there was penetration there was ejaculation and then there was Delta there she is Delta the name of the child yes and she's the best kid that I've ever met so wonderful so there you go she's incorporated the essence of Aloha in her yeah it was in Hawaii it was in Hawaii got it it's totally okay that you guys fight and it's actually a good thing to say it is oh yes we were doing quite a bit of disagreeing at that point with the one year old we are like who's in charge chair.

[2259] We're both in charge.

[2260] Oh, my goodness.

[2261] Okay, well, we're going to wrap it up.

[2262] Text me when you're through through.

[2263] I love you, humor, man. I'm so glad you came in to do the ladies' podcasts.

[2264] Yeah, love you too, man. I hope to see you soon.

[2265] And ladies, just check out the girth of those quads.

[2266] Oh, man. Trunks resting on that couch.

[2267] I'm surprised the couch hasn't given way under four.

[2268] Dax, we need to get together and train and sauna and cold and talk lots of things.

[2269] I could use your guidance on a number of key life things.

[2270] I love that.

[2271] Really quite before I hang up, we're on the Missouri River, which as of this morning was 61 degrees.

[2272] So we cold plunge in the Missouri River.

[2273] I don't know that I've had a better cold plunge experience in my life.

[2274] Amazing.

[2275] Well, don't raise your testosterone too much because, you know, you've already successfully reproduced.

[2276] He has a vasectomy.

[2277] He's all good.

[2278] Honestly, I think with Dax, it wouldn't matter.

[2279] Everyone, all right.

[2280] His sperm are like the evil caneval.

[2281] They can jump the vasectomy.

[2282] What a compliment.

[2283] My anus, like in the back.

[2284] Unnecessary roughness.

[2285] Bye, guys.

[2286] All right, bye.

[2287] Let's take this baby home.

[2288] So let's say either by donor sperm or by donor egg, what's going on there?

[2289] So let's say we've got partners who are in their mid -40s and they want to conceive and they're having trouble getting healthy embryos.

[2290] There is something that is not legal in the U .S., but that's starting abroad and that is legal in the U .K., which is called three -parent IVF, where they take the DNA from mom, they take the sperm from dad, and they take the nucleus from the mom's egg, and they take it out and they put it into the cytoplasm, which is the egg from a younger woman that has a young spindle in mitochondria.

[2291] Oh, wow.

[2292] Yeah, not legal in the U .S., has been approved in the U .K. for mitochondrial dysfunctions.

[2293] And I'm not promoting this, but there are clinics that do this in Eastern Europe.

[2294] Actually, the Ukraine was a site of a lot of this.

[2295] In Mexico, not a lot of data about the health of the offspring, but this is happening.

[2296] So it's kind of interesting to just talk about it.

[2297] Interesting.

[2298] But then, of course, there's, if a woman and a man can't conceive and it has to do with the egg quality, they can take the egg, let's just say a healthy egg, and fertilized with the man's sperm, and then the woman can carry it in her own belly.

[2299] So there's all sorts of ways...

[2300] Through this.

[2301] And, you know, we talked about optimizing egg health.

[2302] We talked about optimizing sperm health, some of the hazards to egg and sperm health.

[2303] We talked about some of the age -related factors, getting your follicle count.

[2304] Guys, I don't know, get your sperm count done.

[2305] It's easy.

[2306] And there are companies, again, I don't have any association to any of them, but they're, like, now at -home testing kits.

[2307] And then there are sperm tests that are sperm volume, motility, and morphology.

[2308] And then there's sperm tests that are far more expensive, like how many DNA fragments are there, more sophisticated tests that, again, scale with expense.

[2309] understand that if you're going down this path, better to just educate yourself early.

[2310] I would love for people to start talking about it more.

[2311] I'm so happy you guys are doing this series.

[2312] And not just women, but men should listen to this.

[2313] I can tell you, as a young guy who never really thought about anything except not having an unwanted pregnancy when I was younger, trust me, there comes a day where your whole world becomes about this stuff.

[2314] You think, wow, I want a family, how to do this, and bless you if you fall in love with somebody who has frozen their eggs.

[2315] congratulations if the guy you're with and can give you the healthy sperm right with you right that that you want but just better to understand how it all works and then you know I know people that have put immense amounts of money and energy toward this whole process it is expensive clinics vary tremendously in cost and I will tell you this nobody gives you your money back if it doesn't work and the reason I say this is because I don't think there are a lot of crooks out there but keep in mind that when people are desperate for something like children you just have to understand that they will have no problem, bring you in, getting you all excited, billing you, and then blaming your biology at the end.

[2316] They're not going to yell at you or ridicule you.

[2317] But I think I say, well, it was this, it was that.

[2318] I think there's an emotional stance that one needs in order to go through this.

[2319] Today we talk mainly about the biology and a little bit about the psychology.

[2320] But I think that it's a big journey.

[2321] It is.

[2322] Right.

[2323] And I think that the process is one that you can learn a lot about the biology so that when they say, hey, you should do PRP and you say, well, that's $1 ,000 to $3 ,000 about, what are the real date on that?

[2324] And they'll tell you, well, I've just had good success with it.

[2325] Or they say assailles, or they say El carnitine, you know, they're varying levels of evidence that go with each of these things.

[2326] And so you just have to decide based on your own budget.

[2327] I do think it's great that people are freezing their eggs in the anticipation that maybe someday they want to make some little ones.

[2328] Yeah.

[2329] Awesome.

[2330] Oh my gosh.

[2331] Thank you so much for the time and all the info.

[2332] It is really nice to hear a male perspective on this.

[2333] We have a range of men and women coming on this show.

[2334] And it's really nice to hear from a man. Boys, you're going to want kids at some point, perhaps.

[2335] Maybe not.

[2336] But don't rule it out just because you're 20 years old.

[2337] The day might come.

[2338] Or you're broke right now.

[2339] Or, you know, financially you're not stable enough, but you're going to want to be and be ready for it.

[2340] Again, we're all here because the sperm met an egg successfully, either in a dish or in vivo.

[2341] And the only species I know that violates that is the, I think the California condor, the females can self -fertilize.

[2342] Oh, really?

[2343] Oh, yeah, two females can fertilize an egg or they can fertilize their own eggs, asexual reproduction in the condor.

[2344] I think it's the California condor.

[2345] So unless you're a California condor.

[2346] We have a big demo.

[2347] Yeah, that's our major demo.

[2348] Big following on Instagram.

[2349] Okay, well, thank you so much, Andrew Huberman.

[2350] We appreciate you.

[2351] Check out Huberman Lab podcast.

[2352] it's awesome.

[2353] I don't know anyone in my life who doesn't listen and love it.

[2354] So thank you for that.

[2355] And thanks for coming.

[2356] Thanks.

[2357] I had a great time talking biology with y 'all.

[2358] Thank you.

[2359] Bye.

[2360] Bye for now.

[2361] Wow.

[2362] I feel like we just went to college.

[2363] Like a way better version of college than I got.

[2364] No dis to any of my professors.

[2365] But I did not learn about this in school.

[2366] All of this was new information.

[2367] That was really helpful.

[2368] I hope that science lesson is informative for people.

[2369] It definitely was for us.

[2370] So, okay, I want to say in the home stretch, and I don't know if that's true, but I think that'll make you feel better.

[2371] Okay, I like that as a concept.

[2372] So we will be back next week for more shots, more stories, and we thank you all for listening.

[2373] Thank you.