Ashton Kutcher Returns

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard.

[2] Hi, miniature mouse.

[3] Hello, Big Mouse.

[4] Hello, Big Mousey.

[5] Today, we have a returning guest, one of our faves.

[6] Ashton Coutcher.

[7] We just adore.

[8] Of course, you know him from Punk, The 70s Show, 2 and a half men, The Ranch, no strings attached, and just married.

[9] We had a real fun talk with him, and it was much different than the first one in a very thrilling way.

[10] I wasn't there for the first one.

[11] You were not there, but you heard it.

[12] Well, anyways, we had a great chat, and I'm excited for everyone to listen.

[13] And just a quick reminder, there's a few tickets left for our live performance on April 4th in Los Angeles, which is part of HistoryCon.

[14] And we're going to have a very exciting guest that knows a whole bunch about history.

[15] So if you'd like to get tickets, please go to our website, www .armchairexpertpod .com and click on the link for tickets.

[16] Please enjoy Mr. Coucher.

[17] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[18] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[19] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[20] Having now done a ton of work in this space of pedophiles, I mean, Right now, we're trying to eliminate child pornography from the internet.

[21] Okay.

[22] And so I've seen some shit that you can't unsee, like, nasty horror.

[23] And I've gone on FBI raids.

[24] You have?

[25] Yeah.

[26] And there are two distinct types of individuals that engage in this behavior.

[27] And some of them are just lost souls, right?

[28] Where they've just, you know, got, like, at a very young age, they were exposed to this stuff.

[29] Right.

[30] And then they started to find a sexual interest in this material online, which was readily available and become obsessed with it.

[31] And then they, you know, do a hands on a fence because the only way you can actually get into the chat rooms with the new material is to actually present a new piece of content.

[32] Oh, like good faith money in a con. There's that type of person.

[33] Yeah.

[34] Which I actually have personal empathy for where I go, man, you're just a person that went down the wrong track.

[35] And then you've got the other type of person who actually, like, has a lack of repression.

[36] And you go, like, I have less compassion.

[37] But at the same time, I go, shouldn't we be able to study these human brains and find a way to, you know, remedy this?

[38] Yeah, intercept it before.

[39] There was a crazy story about this guy who was totally normal that had zero, you know, interest in fucking.

[40] children.

[41] And then one day, his wife found out that he was like, yeah, this was the radio lab blame episode.

[42] He had had, he had had a surgery to deal with his epilepsy.

[43] No, this is a different one.

[44] So the guy then went to trial.

[45] And while on trial for the wife turned him in, while on trial, he, like, was, you know, claiming to have these like headaches passed out.

[46] They went in and he had cancer that had occurred and it was repressing his prefrontal cortex and then they had it removed and he was fine again see this is this is virtually the same story as the blame one because this guy had the surgery for the epilepsy and they cut a little corridor in your brain and the yes the prefrontal cortex couldn't suppress the midbrain reptilian urge to as you say just do insane stuff yeah yeah those get really complicated as far as like who's in control well and so then you sort of go, you know, I've found myself in a position where I actually have empathy.

[47] And the crazy thing is we have a hotline and they click on it.

[48] And then we've worked with like psychologists to create very specific messaging that urges them.

[49] It's like you have, clearly you have an issue with this and, you know, we're not judging you, but we think you should get help.

[50] And here's a hotline.

[51] Our click through rates are better than most advertising campaigns in the world.

[52] Really?

[53] We have 100 ,000 people plus have clicked through and sought help.

[54] Oh, my gosh.

[55] Oh, my God.

[56] That's amazing.

[57] Wow, what an interesting approach to dealing with that.

[58] Here's where I come from it.

[59] I've never had to fight the urge to touch a child.

[60] Never.

[61] Never.

[62] I'm not walking around battling that.

[63] And I'm aware of how grateful I am that that's not one of the things I have to battle.

[64] By the way, I think we can strive for great justice in handling it all.

[65] and even being severe in that justice.

[66] But I also think you could be compassionate towards who would want to be on planet Earth with that desire.

[67] I mean, move it over and think about like an urge for alcohol or an urge for drugs and go, that's what I got to deal with every day.

[68] Oh, I can't imagine.

[69] And my urge is to touch small children.

[70] Yeah.

[71] Like the worst thing to live with ever.

[72] Oh, I'd rather have any other thing.

[73] Literally, give it to me. Lou Gehrick's, I'll take it.

[74] Anything.

[75] Is that how you say it?

[76] Lou Gehritz?

[77] Yeah, yeah.

[78] Baseball player.

[79] Yeah, what a, yeah, what a terrible.

[80] Great baseball player.

[81] There was also, Monica, what was the name of the, it was a This American Life?

[82] Oh, Tard and Feather.

[83] Have you heard that episode of This American Life?

[84] You have to listen to it because it's a young man coming to accept the fact that he has those desires.

[85] And he tells his mom.

[86] He hasn't done anything.

[87] He's like a late teen.

[88] And he's like, I am so ashamed of this, but I am attracted to young.

[89] young kids.

[90] And so you're like, wow, what's the path for someone who admits it, seeks help?

[91] And, you know, again, I have compassion for a teenager that's realizing he's wired that way.

[92] And he wants to do something about it.

[93] There's not really that much that can be done.

[94] There's not like medicine for it.

[95] Yeah.

[96] I mean, we've talked about like how do we sort of get enough brains of pedophiles and enough genetic data on pedophiles that we can actually start to study that to understand it.

[97] Yeah.

[98] Because it seems to me that this may be one of those things that we can actually find a, you know, chemical remedy for.

[99] Yeah.

[100] Where you go, did you take your peto pill today?

[101] Yeah.

[102] Or I'll go further.

[103] We'll give you a nor plant.

[104] I'm okay with taking away someone's right to take medicine in this one area.

[105] If you've been convicted of something in the paedophilia world, you get the nor plant, like the birth control that lasts six months.

[106] Oh, sure.

[107] Yeah, we just pop it in it when you leave court.

[108] Exactly.

[109] And you got to show up and you get another one six months.

[110] Now, I'll be cruel in that way.

[111] I'll make you take that medicine.

[112] Well, I don't know if it's cruel.

[113] Well, I think generally, I think it's generous.

[114] I mean, imagine living with that.

[115] I mean, yeah.

[116] But I do wonder if it'd be like mental, like people with bipolar are often hesitant to take their medication because the swing up is very, pleasure role.

[117] The right to choose on that, I guess, but not for pedophilia.

[118] But when you say we, you've said we a few times.

[119] What is we?

[120] Thorn .org.

[121] Thorne is the nonprofit that we've built to fight.

[122] We have a seven -year goal to eliminate chopper and biography from the internet.

[123] And we do a lot of anti -human trafficking work as well.

[124] That's amazing.

[125] Now who, oh, so I just learned this in, what am I listening to that was talking about this?

[126] Oh, I know it was the Jeffrey Epstein podcast, which was really great.

[127] Anyways, any sex with an underage person is called trafficking, right?

[128] I didn't know that.

[129] I think that's a little distinction that's useful.

[130] I think it's rape.

[131] I think it's like an awful nomenclature issue that we have around this, which is, you know, if you're having sex with an underage person, it is, that's rape.

[132] Plain and simple.

[133] Yeah.

[134] And I think that, you know, we sort of call it trafficking and suddenly it's something else and you go wait no no no this is but when i heard it i guess i thought it was just cracking down on people importing like eastern european girls i thought there was solely a trafficking element to it and i didn't realize that it's all it's no a lot of it from a nomenclature perspective has all been conflated some of the kickback that we've gotten with our non -profit has been from people who are over 18 and choosing to have sex for money and you know they go wait this is what i'm choosing to do as a job.

[135] Yeah, sex worker.

[136] And we've gotten kickback because a lot of the organizations in this space sort of conflate everything together, we're very clearly, you know, we build digital tools to fight the sexual exploitation of children.

[137] Right.

[138] So that's our very clear delineation.

[139] Yeah.

[140] That is our mission and our focus.

[141] And so it gets a little funky when you sort of broadly just sort of cluster everything together.

[142] Yeah.

[143] Why that issue?

[144] Why were you interested in tackling that.

[145] Because you spoke in front of Congress on this, right?

[146] I saw dazzling real of you addressing our.

[147] Thank you.

[148] It was really impressive.

[149] I blew a kiss to John McCain.

[150] I saw this dateline special on like kids in Cambodia that were like six, seven, eight years old and having grown men have sex with them.

[151] And it just really disturbed.

[152] It just seemed to me that that was one of the most disturbing things on earth and as i i spent a year plus just investigating the space and what everyone was doing yeah and it just seemed that there was this lack of effort towards ending this and to me it seemed like one of the most urgent things that we could do as humans to end yeah i got to say i feel worse about that than finding out a kid died of malaria yeah because it's a human acting upon another human in a malicious way and as opposed to to, you know, Circumstances.

[153] malaria and there's other things that the CDC focus on that you go like Ebola, like we don't want to just let that one go.

[154] No, no, no. Oh, I'm watching this new one in China right now like a fucking hawk.

[155] Right?

[156] Yeah, because I'm like, just living on the West Coast, I feel like puts us in a much, more dangerous because all these flights are coming through here.

[157] And the crazy thing is we just put all these, there's bands on like five new countries of people like flying here from Somalia and this one.

[158] And I went, where's China on this list right now?

[159] Like, wait a second, we've got a real, like, they're quarantining whole cities over there.

[160] Yeah, cities of like 12 million people.

[161] It's crazy.

[162] We're first base on the trip.

[163] That's in New York.

[164] We sure are.

[165] I mean, don't go to Solvame Village.

[166] That is a tour stop and you could be in big, I have a real issue.

[167] I mean, a couple glasses of wine and you wake up with fucking ostrich USA could go under as a result of this.

[168] I decided to re -listen to our first interview two years ago.

[169] You were the guinea pig.

[170] You were first in.

[171] God bless you.

[172] We gave a bit a shot.

[173] You're a huge reason this thing's successful.

[174] So thank you.

[175] I couldn't get through it.

[176] I'm so embarrassed and ashamed of myself.

[177] Why?

[178] Buddy, I talked so much.

[179] It's so embarrassing.

[180] I was nervous.

[181] You had some things you had to get off your chest.

[182] Oh my God.

[183] I couldn't get through it.

[184] I couldn't get through it.

[185] But anyways, I just wanted to acknowledge.

[186] But I wanted to say, one of the things I want to talk to you about today is one of our favorite hobbies on the ranch was just like what new thing you and I are into.

[187] Because it's almost hourly, right?

[188] Yeah.

[189] Yeah.

[190] You're on such a type A trajectory of self -improvement and I love it.

[191] So I was wondering what were this year's 2020's New Year's resolutions?

[192] I didn't have clear New Year's resolutions this year.

[193] And I sort of looked at it as decade resolutions.

[194] Oh, okay.

[195] Because it was a new year.

[196] decade.

[197] And I got really excited about the fact that, wait a second, in one year I can probably accomplish X, Y, and Z. But if I actually look at a decade and I set some goals for a decade, A, the chances of achieving that are much higher.

[198] And B, what you could potentially accomplish in a decade is exponential to what you can accomplish in a year.

[199] Yeah, I like this.

[200] And so I sort of set decade resolutions.

[201] Oh my goodness.

[202] As opposed to a new year's resolution.

[203] You're so ahead of me. Yeah.

[204] You could build the Hoover Dan.

[205] You could build the Hoover Day.

[206] I read this thing about Japanese companies and how they had century missions.

[207] They had like goals that were for the century.

[208] And I went, whoa, hold on.

[209] That's like another level of thinking about your company.

[210] Like what's your next hundred years going to look like?

[211] And as a company, you can do that because you might be dead, but the company can still be alive.

[212] And so I think oftentimes we're all too short term in our thinking.

[213] Like whenever I start to get an argument or start to get upset about something, I've practiced this trigger, which is like, am I going to care about this in five years?

[214] Where I just do a really quick check in and go, is this going to matter in five years?

[215] Is this worth having upset or stress about?

[216] And that's like my pause button and the one question that I asked myself about.

[217] So I set these decade goals.

[218] Okay.

[219] And my decade goals are eliminating child pornography from the internet, which was already a goal of Thorne.

[220] I have a decade goal around fixing foster care.

[221] Okay.

[222] So I did a bunch of research on foster care and realized that the graduation rates for foster care children for high school is like 27%.

[223] And if you look at the incarceration rates of foster care children, it's insane.

[224] Team pregnancy is ridiculously higher.

[225] And there are all these other sort of downstream issues that are a result of a very poorly run state and county foster care system that don't need to be poorly run.

[226] They're just poorly run because the incentives, for whatever reason, aren't in line, which I don't quite understand, because if you actually look at all the downstream entitlements that end up going to those foster care children after foster care is done poorly, it's insane.

[227] What, like medical expenses?

[228] Penitentiaries, medical expenses, like welfare.

[229] But if you're a child that comes up with neglectful parents, the likelihood of you being a neglectful parent is very high because you haven't had a model with which to raise your children and if you're being dished around from foster care family to foster care family and you have a sense that no one loves you how are you going to express that in the world that no one loves me right and so you can actually look at the direct line from foster care and then neglect of that system to all these other entitlements downstream and go it actually costs us a billion times more later we just need to upfront the cost to fix foster care and we can solve a ton of problems.

[230] Yeah, a lot of these debates that seem like left -right debates, I'm always a little frustrated because I want to say to the, generally, the right, I get it, man, you shouldn't be shelling out a bunch of money, but let's just look at what is it, what does homelessness cost to fix versus what does it cost to treat?

[231] You should just fiscally want to do an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure.

[232] And same with foster care.

[233] Just run the math.

[234] It's much better investment.

[235] It's much, much cheaper to prevent the problem from happening, right?

[236] Yeah, I mean, it's a pure data play.

[237] Like if you just run the math on it, it's actually just, I mean, and there's crazy things.

[238] Like, sometimes these kids get removed from their homes and put into foster care because the mom was a single mother who had four kids who couldn't afford to pay her rent this month and decided to go and sell her body for sex in order to pay rent and was out at night.

[239] And the social worker came home and saw four kids left.

[240] at home at night alone and they remove the four kids, wouldn't it be just cheaper to pay that $400 in rent and keep those kids at home with their mom and get the mom into some type of program to get her employed in a more meaningful way?

[241] Like, wouldn't that be a better solution?

[242] Yeah.

[243] And again, cheaper.

[244] Even if you don't really, that doesn't tug at your heartstrings, just cheaper.

[245] Well, you know, my mom's a CASA.

[246] Do you know what CASAs are?

[247] They're cord -a -po.

[248] Advocated advocates for kids and foster, but my mom said, you know, the goal is always just as a kind of baseline goal is like, it's best that the kids stay with the parents.

[249] Like all things considered, you're really hoping that the situation improves because it really is the goal generally.

[250] And you're right.

[251] There's not much capital being put into that end of the equation.

[252] Well, and part of the reason why it's the best is because the system to become a foster care parent is so jacked you have to do this like home inspection to become a foster care parent so basically they have to send somebody out to your house like three times in the process all good you know you want the kids to be in a safe environment do you know what like the number one reason why some of these homes don't get approved is because they don't have a fire extinguisher oh boy and you're like well wait a second and so so i was talking to somebody about this and they were working in one state, and they just decided to put fire extinguishers in the trunk of the inspectors.

[253] Yeah.

[254] And they just give them a fire extinguishing.

[255] Now they pass inspection.

[256] And now we have a great home for a kid, right?

[257] Yeah.

[258] There's also zero data that's being run on where these foster care kids are, where they're coming from.

[259] And then actual, like, proactive recruiting of foster care families in those same neighborhoods.

[260] Oh, right.

[261] Uh -huh.

[262] So it's a county run system in California.

[263] In other states, it's run by the state.

[264] and there's variability for state by state.

[265] But if your next -a -kin is in a different county and they don't have that next -a -kin in the registry, there may be an aunt that's right in the next county, but they don't know that they're there and so they don't set them up with the aunt.

[266] In many cases, they don't even ask the kids who the adults are in their life that they know that would probably take, they don't even ask them.

[267] So there's really simple fundamental changes that can happen because in some cases it is the right thing to do to take the kids from the parents.

[268] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[269] But if we don't have the ability for families to become good foster care families in a simple way that isn't just an drastically arduous or expensive process, yeah, them going into foster care is going to be a terrible idea.

[270] Yeah.

[271] Do you know how many kids at any one time in America are in foster care?

[272] I want to say I have this data, but I don't have it.

[273] I want to say, and it could be totally wrong.

[274] Monacoal fact check this thing.

[275] I think it's somewhere around like 500 ,000 kids a year or something like that.

[276] Come out of the foster care.

[277] Go in to foster care.

[278] I think it's somewhere in that range.

[279] Or maybe it's 500 ,000 kids at any given time, one or the other.

[280] Fact check that one.

[281] I will.

[282] And I also think about this.

[283] I'm like, well, if those kids are technically in custody of the state, the state knows where the best schools in the state are.

[284] Like, shouldn't those kids get to?

[285] go to the front of the line of the best public schools in the state because they're in the custody of the state.

[286] No, they're already feeling super insecure.

[287] So let's send them to the most dangerous area possible.

[288] Just to really amplify that.

[289] But these are simple fundamental changes.

[290] And then if you could actually build like a high quality targeted recruiting system and a high quality like to identify who the closest next to kin are, which there is no national registry.

[291] and you could probably find next to kin on Facebook but a lot of these social service environments they don't allow the employees to be on Facebook at work because they don't want them sure checking in on old sweethearts from high school and I'm like what this is like the most effective social tool in the world to find people a third of the people are on it isn't it exciting though that you live in an era because I wonder if you being the type of person you are were the exact same person but in 1972.

[292] I think the fact that you're so interested in tech, coupled with now, you're empowered now.

[293] Like, don't you feel like you would have felt far more powerless in the 70s attacking these issues where there's no like kind of tech answer to them or tech improvement?

[294] Like, don't you think this is kind of, you perfectly, you know, as far as the simulation goes, this is pointing to you're probably in a simulation because this is like the ideal time for you to take up these causes because there's all these fun tech improvements.

[295] We talked to your buddy, Cohen, Jared Cohen, and he does a lot of this stuff too, right?

[296] Like, they'll go to recruitment websites for jihadists, and they'll redirect them someplace.

[297] And like, oh, what a cool answer that doesn't involve missiles.

[298] Yeah, I think it's a wonderful tool.

[299] And in some cases, when it's being drastically underutilized, i .e. this particular issue, you can make exponential improvements by applying technology solutions to it.

[300] but putting fire extinguishers in the trunks of cars is not technology asking the kids who are the adults in their lives is not technology you know i mean you're right but but but knowing that's one of the big issues is kind of the result of data mining or data aggregate right so it's like you can identify what some of these major problems are that probably would just blown over everyone's head yeah one of the beautiful things about data is there there are a bunch of counterintuitive assumptions that you unearth really quickly with data.

[301] And you go, wait a second, nobody's going to vote for Donald Trump.

[302] But if you actually look at the data, you go, no, all these people are going to vote for Donald Trump and this is why.

[303] Right.

[304] And the data is there.

[305] If you listen to and or read Malcolm Gladwell's new book, Talking to Strangers.

[306] No, the new one I haven't run.

[307] Oh, you're going to love it.

[308] Oh, it's like to the best of his best.

[309] It's great.

[310] bought it.

[311] But there's two, we were talking about it this morning, there's two huge counterintuitive data things, which I just found to be mind -blowing.

[312] I was saying how much I enjoy being confronted by the facts and reversing my position.

[313] I really enjoy that.

[314] And one of them, if I can condense it very shortly, was Sylvia Plath killed herself, the poet, and she put her head in the oven and turned it on in London.

[315] And at that time, every single house in London used this gas called town gas.

[316] It wasn't natural gas.

[317] And you could kill yourself quite easily with it.

[318] Now you can't really with natural gas.

[319] And at that time, it was the number one killer in London was people committing suicide with this town gas.

[320] And so conventionally, and this is certainly what I thought before reading this chapter, if you take away one means to kill yourself, people just find another.

[321] Like if you're hell -bent on killing yourself, you're just going to kill yourself, right?

[322] But they found that when they switched to natural gas, the actual suicide rate plummeted by virtually the number that people were killing themselves with town gas.

[323] They didn't go to another solution.

[324] And then he gets into the Golden Gate Bridge and how many people have jumped from there.

[325] And in this case of 500 people that someone intercepted them or arrested them, they do this data analysis.

[326] And of the 500, only 25 of those people ended up killing themselves.

[327] So displacement is the theory I had, which is they'll just find another means.

[328] But there's another theory called coupling, which is no, it's a whole suite of different things happening perfectly at the same time that someone might kill themselves.

[329] and I was like god damn I would have just said probably I probably would have been on the the gun side of the argument like okay yeah 20 ,000 people kill themselves with guns every year if you take away the guns or stab themselves does that make you happy and come to find out no no there's this thing coupling that's fascinating yeah I was like oh I love this that's a wonderful yeah I always get excited when I hear like a random piece of like counterintuitive like because so often what you hear and learn, you kind of already know.

[330] But when you learn something that you genuinely would have thought the exact opposite is true, it's just like the most exhilarating thing.

[331] I get so fired up.

[332] And it's how we invest in companies.

[333] The first thing we're always looking for is like some counterintuitive thesis that actually is a beautiful thing with companies, which is if you have data that supports a counterintuitive thesis, the likelihood of competitors coming into the space.

[334] on when the company is most fragile is greatly reduced because they would go, no, that's not kind of what, you know, it's like, will people go sleep on other people's couches, you know, of strangers?

[335] No, yeah, that sounds like no way.

[336] That's just no way.

[337] Intuition -wise.

[338] In fact, they do.

[339] And they're, you know, it's - And they far prefer it to a hotel once they use it.

[340] Exactly.

[341] You know, it's like, would you jump into a car with the stranger driving you and to, never?

[342] No, that's not.

[343] Well, yeah, they do.

[344] You know, the latest one I saw was this company, it was like an HR software company.

[345] What they realized was these companies offer all these incentive programs to like keep employees happy and do all these things.

[346] But the truth is when people first come to the company and they get all these incentives, their happiness and retention rates go way up, right?

[347] But over time, it just sort of dwindles because all those incentives just seem like the norm.

[348] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[349] And so what they came up with is this methodology to constant.

[350] be introducing new short -term incentives to employees that not only raise the happiness rate and the retention rate, but then maintain it over time.

[351] And I was like, brilliant.

[352] Like I would have never guessed.

[353] I would go, listen, you know, we have really great benefits here.

[354] But the better thing is to go, yeah, we have some good benefits, but here's the truth is there's new benefits all the time.

[355] Yeah, I would have been like, we need a program that says, hey, have some gratitude, motherfuckers.

[356] These are great, great benefits.

[357] And get over yourself.

[358] What do you think you're entitled to?

[359] Oh my God.

[360] That's your, that is your issue.

[361] It is.

[362] I am like the gratitude police aren't I know.

[363] You are.

[364] You really are.

[365] I have a chalk.

[366] I have a chalkboard in my, I have like my own little toilet stall in the house.

[367] And the back of the door, I have a chalkboard on it.

[368] And it says practice appreciation that is what I wrote up there.

[369] And so every day when I'm taking my morning deuce, I can look at it and be like, just practice some appreciation today.

[370] And it actually works where, like, I walk out and I'm like, this is just great.

[371] I start there.

[372] And as I'm sitting on The Thinker, I'm thinking of ways to practice appreciation.

[373] By the way, we should launch a toilet brand called The Thinker, the Thinker.

[374] Because that's really, for me, where it's a lot of the thinking is getting done.

[375] It's the only time I'm not engaged with other distractions.

[376] Stop taking your phone in.

[377] And you'll find a wealth of ideas.

[378] Could she?

[379] The idea of going into my...

[380] Another decade goal.

[381] There's a decade goal for you.

[382] Don't take the phone in.

[383] Just the thought of it scares me. Like what you just said was like, go to the movies knowing you're not going to eat popcorn.

[384] I'm like, well, I don't even know if I want to go to the movies now.

[385] The notion of sitting there with myself on the turlet is scary.

[386] You'll reduce your hemorrhoids.

[387] Two, you'll come up with some brilliant stuff.

[388] Wow.

[389] And then I've got this handy -dandy chalkboard right there.

[390] So if I come up with something brilliant, you don't want to forget it because it was just a toilet idea.

[391] I can just write it down on the old thinker, and then it's a saved idea.

[392] You're so far ahead.

[393] I know.

[394] You're really, really far ahead.

[395] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[396] We've all been there.

[397] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[398] Though our minds, spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[399] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[400] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[401] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[402] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[403] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[404] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[405] What's up guys?

[406] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[407] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[408] And I don't mean just friends.

[409] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[410] The list goes on.

[411] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[412] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[413] Let me put one of my resolutions on the table for you because it's forced me to do basically that.

[414] So my year's resolution was love everywhere I'm at.

[415] Because I'm going to fucking be there anyways.

[416] Broad.

[417] Fucking love it.

[418] Right.

[419] So I need to work on that.

[420] So far it's been going really well for me, suspiciously well.

[421] Like I'm driving to work a couple days ago.

[422] And I was like, I get to work.

[423] I'm going to be late.

[424] And I was like, you're in the car.

[425] You're in the car.

[426] And there's no kids in this car.

[427] And then I'm like, the fucking seats are very comfortable in this thing.

[428] And fucking XM radio.

[429] Like, I just really started like going through the list of how wonderful it is to be stuck in your car for 20 minutes.

[430] And it's fucking lovely.

[431] If I shift my perspective to that.

[432] I mean, we almost have a similar thing.

[433] My practice appreciation, love where you're at.

[434] It's the same.

[435] Exactly.

[436] And, you know, I considered, I don't have a child.

[437] talkboard but I was going to write it on my mirror and I was like I've come all the way now back to fucking daily affirmations this thing I laughed at on Saturday Night Live right like Stuart Smalley you're good enough you're smart enough don't got it people like you yes and I used to just how silly that was and now I'm like no that's exactly I need to see every day what the fucking goal is okay is there anything else on the decade long I want to hear maybe like a personal one I mean those are big can I introduce one that you let me in on and I was kind of laughing at you when you did it and then I've come around to it, which is last year we're shooting the ranch and you got involved in a competition, a body mass index weight loss competition.

[438] And you took it so seriously.

[439] Yeah.

[440] And I think you lost like 120 pounds and you were only 160 when you started.

[441] You got so thin.

[442] I got really thin.

[443] Yeah.

[444] And then you started telling you launched this on me. You go, you know, I've really studied this.

[445] And the actors who just were really thin in their 40s really age beautifully in their 50s like there's just a trajectory if you enter 50s as very thin I think you were maybe referencing Sting I was talking about Sam Elliott Sam Elliott what an example I mean he's always been that guy and he just maintains it yes and at first my immediate thought was like no no I need muscle mass I need a little pop in my biceps and then since we had that conversation it kind of stuck in my head a little bit and I went down like 15 pounds or something And I was like, I think he's right.

[446] I think this is the move.

[447] Here's the thing.

[448] By the way, you really helped me in that competition.

[449] I ended up getting third place out of like 45 people.

[450] Which is impressive.

[451] Because I'd say you already started in pretty damn good shape.

[452] I was already in decent shape.

[453] But I ended up cutting like an insane, like 25 pounds of fat.

[454] And what was crazy is the guy won was doing much more bodybuilding than what I was doing.

[455] because you said to me at one point you're like the competition was around percentage of body fat lost and you were like you need to start lifting weights because muscle weighs five times more the fat you gain more muscle mass you gain more weight but the percentage of fat will reduce most people are only looking at one side of the equation which is fat reduction yeah but the other side's at muscle mass and then half way through I started doing like crazy hit training and doing like heavy heavy weights and gaining muscle mass with no carbs to burn with no nothing no energy i mean i was like passing out like all day long and like then i was doing like 18 hour fasts like three times a week oh i fully recommend this on here oh i fully recommend well 18 hour fast are wonderful actually like one of the only proven things that it like create longevity and yeah he was is is fasting yeah by the way like there's a counterintuitive thing right like that's wholly counterintuitive like don't eat for an extended period to time and you'll live longer yeah don't give your body what it needs needs.

[456] Yeah.

[457] I mean, I had like, I had these like feeding windows when I was doing this thing.

[458] I will say, though, at the end, not to go against what was a marvelous strategy and yielded great results.

[459] Towards the end, you were, you were hanging on by a threat.

[460] I was getting pretty gone.

[461] You were, well, you were gone.

[462] That's one issue.

[463] But you are so dialed in as a person.

[464] You know, you're very electric and dialed the fuck in.

[465] Like when you and I are chatting, I feel like I like hook up some kind of like a HDMI cable.

[466] Like a neural link.

[467] Yes.

[468] You, me, Elon Musk.

[469] That's right.

[470] Neural linking.

[471] But we were having some conversations and I noticed some gloss in the eyes, which I had never seen in like 15 years of knowing you.

[472] I was like, oh, he's a little glossed right now.

[473] And I think you were just hanging on by.

[474] I don't think you had enough glycogen to make the brain work at its optimal level.

[475] Do you remember being foggy at all during that period?

[476] I was probably just tired from not eating enough and working out too much.

[477] Probably.

[478] Probably.

[479] Right.

[480] And the other thing is, is like during that window, I mean, I always do sober January.

[481] And so during that window, I wasn't drinking either, which, you know, it's an interesting thing when you quit drinking because, you know, I probably for the last 10 years, I've had two drinks a day, like virtually every day.

[482] And I don't ever get smashed, but like, and maybe like once a week I'll have a couple more than that or something like if I'm hanging out socially.

[483] And when you quit drinking, the first week sucks.

[484] the second week you're like oh man i feel great like suddenly you're like clear you got you can remember things that the word that you want to say is right on the tip of your tongue and you're a little more firmness in your poll too and you get like a good two weeks of that and then after that you're like kind of missing out in like these social things and you start to feel this and then and then there's a dip interesting i stopped drinking this year in November oh really and i probably had like five drinks, but only ever, like, one a day, five drinks since November.

[485] And you got through the holidays without getting sloshed?

[486] That's the hardest holiday, I think, I just might be done drinking.

[487] That's not on, like, my resolution list.

[488] Yeah.

[489] But I kind of am just sort of like, I mean, like, I'll taste a wine or something, but I, like, can I tell you, I'm reminded of this often?

[490] This is the same issue that everyone who gets sober contends with, which is, like, when you come in, man, you're, you're hyper aware of the price you pay for consumers.

[491] assuming shit.

[492] But over time, as you say, you kind of level off and now that's the new norm.

[493] And your memory just, that's the way it works.

[494] It kind of downsizes the bad shit.

[495] But ultimately, the way I still experience it monthly is I'm always quit sugar, right?

[496] So I'll be off sugar for whatever it is, three, four weeks.

[497] I start fantasizing about what something's going to taste like.

[498] And inevitably, every single time I have the thing, I'm like, fuck, it's just not the thing that I build up in my head over that month off sugar.

[499] Like I, I build it up that it's going to be a fucking orgasm when I eat a Snickers bar.

[500] And then just when I do, I'm like, oh, hmm, it's not, you know, it's like my memory inflates things and then deflates the bad things.

[501] Yeah.

[502] And, but then also, like, you have one Stickersbore.

[503] And then you're like, well, I mean, I don't feel awful.

[504] Let's party.

[505] And then you're like, I got to go to Dairy Queen now.

[506] By the way, that's generally the thing that takes me off the sugar sobriety thing is we'll travel.

[507] And I'm allowed whenever I'm out of L .A. to eat Dairy Queen.

[508] That's always my first stop.

[509] Dairy Queen.

[510] Oh, I mean, we were talking last night at dinner.

[511] We were talking about our last meal.

[512] And Dairy Queen finishes off my last meal.

[513] It's the last stop on the final meal train is Dairy Queen.

[514] I mean, thank God for Warren Buffett.

[515] I mean, you know, he bought it because he loved it.

[516] He just loved Dairy Queen.

[517] It was an emotional purchase.

[518] And I think he bought it because he loved Dairy Queen, and it's the thing that's kept it around.

[519] Really?

[520] Oh, wow, I didn't know.

[521] What's your go -to at Dairy Queen?

[522] Oh, man, I'm all over.

[523] I'm all over the menu.

[524] I mean, I am every - You're dancing around.

[525] I mean, I love a peanut buster parfait.

[526] Me too.

[527] Oh, and I'm always, in the way I talk to them, it must be so insulting.

[528] I'm like, okay, so I'm going to want double the fudge that comes in it.

[529] And I know, like, so I don't, how many pumps?

[530] And I'm like, well, how many, because I want to be specific about this.

[531] Like, I don't want to tell you double and then you eyeball it.

[532] I'm like, if it's seven pumps, I want 14.

[533] And it's exhausting for the person when I order one.

[534] banana split oh wow okay i like like all the royal treats are always up there for me like there's a list of royal treats and the reason why they're always up there for me is when i was a kid my stepdad would walk me to the dairy queen that was like five 10 blocks away or something like once a month or so we would go with and he would let me pick a royal treat but i will say the crunch cone it's like a dip cone it's like a dip but it's in the crunch, it's lovely.

[535] Oh, I love a dip cone.

[536] Like soft -serve crunch cone.

[537] Finding my way back to the basics.

[538] Come back to the basics, yeah.

[539] Who brought me to the party?

[540] Now, have you ever tried this?

[541] Knowing that you like the banana split.

[542] Now, this is something I always recommend to people.

[543] They never want to, because it's not sexy enough.

[544] Right, Monica?

[545] Yeah.

[546] You've been around for a lot of this.

[547] The banana split blizzard is the best blizzard.

[548] Have you ever had one?

[549] Oh, I could imagine.

[550] It's really good.

[551] It's so much better than it should be.

[552] I could imagine.

[553] Everybody has a whole banana split in it And you can taste it And then you can Then you can throw a dash A Reese's peanut butter cup or something in there And you've got this base of a It's incredible I will say I'm a hard conversation for me I know do you know Well one of one of Monica's most And this is for real Most traumatic childhood memories was You know she was one of the only Indian kids In Duluth Georgia And she was at a backyard party Two boys, two girls swimming One of the boys and girls were already a couple.

[554] She liked the boy a lot in the pool.

[555] He liked her a lot.

[556] So her girlfriend thought she'd facilitate.

[557] So she was in the pool and she said to him, you should ask Monica out.

[558] She likes you and you like her.

[559] And he said, I like her, but I can't date Monica because her parents work at Dairy Queen because that was an Indian stereotype when she grew up.

[560] And he couldn't be with her.

[561] Because the Indians worked at the Dairy Queen.

[562] My parents did not.

[563] They probably owned them.

[564] Yeah.

[565] Her dad was an engineer.

[566] My parents did not work there, but it was it was a deep cut literally her whole well that is not a deep cut that's like a saving grace that that boy is not in your life well hold on no no i have compassion for him too i have compassion for him but it did affect my whole life that moment really did affect my whole life with boys it really really changed everything oh i'm just so happy that that guy because what if he was just harboring that while you were dating I mean, that would be like, that would be awful.

[567] Well, he was, he was incredibly honest for a 12 year old, right?

[568] Well, to my friend.

[569] He didn't like say it to me. But what makes me sad about it?

[570] Let's just say, what a terrible thing to say.

[571] But also, everyone at the party at 12 years old just wants to be accepted.

[572] Anything that could exclude you is terrifying.

[573] So here he loved this girl, but she had some thing that would have excluded him.

[574] The whole thing is sad for everyone.

[575] Sure.

[576] He wanted to be with you and couldn't over this Dairy Queen situation.

[577] Yeah, let's feel bad for him.

[578] No, you're the victim here, but I'm just saying.

[579] No, I know.

[580] I agree.

[581] I'm not pumped for either person.

[582] What's his name?

[583] Rosa.

[584] I'll throw him out there.

[585] Okay.

[586] I want to talk about the ranch.

[587] We're going into the final season of the ranch.

[588] There's 10 episodes left out currently on Netflix.

[589] That's right.

[590] And so everybody can, all 80 episodes are on Netflix and available to watch.

[591] It's the entire arc of the series.

[592] 80 episodes.

[593] Yeah, so anybody who hasn't started watching it can, start from the beginning, watch the entire 80.

[594] And everybody who has been watching it, the last final 10 episodes are now on Netflix.

[595] They're out right now.

[596] Now, what's really fun about this is I ended up being in 25 of those 80, which was so fun.

[597] And really only happened because of this podcast.

[598] A hundred percent happened because of this podcast.

[599] Yeah.

[600] We were walking out, and at the time, we had this idea of this character that we wanted to introduce in the show, which was a military vet that was coming back, who had some PTSD, that was a cousin that would come and start staying with a family, live.

[601] And after we had done the podcast, I was like, I think Dax would be great at this.

[602] And I asked you, thinking for sure you were going to say no, or that you had something else that you were working on and going on.

[603] And you were like, yeah, I'd do that.

[604] Yeah, absolutely.

[605] Well, I had just spent two and a half hours with you.

[606] And I was like, goddamn, I enjoy hanging with you.

[607] And this would be an opportunity to just hang out with you.

[608] And by God, it proved to be that.

[609] We had a goddamn blast.

[610] We had a really good time.

[611] It's one of the funer jobs I've ever had.

[612] Well, I mean, just having Sam Elliott there and watching Sam Elliott get upset about the littlest things probably was like the highlight.

[613] He's like, if it's raining, there's no way they leave these tools out here.

[614] Oh, yeah.

[615] So it was like, it was little things.

[616] Well, let's just start with he's a better actor than us.

[617] By far.

[618] Yeah, yes.

[619] He's actually thinking about stuff that would probably be helpful to your performance.

[620] But you and I are like, when's pizza getting here?

[621] That would be her like main note about something.

[622] But oh, yeah, one of the highlights.

[623] But we were making fun of Alicia because she has a little bit of a Canadian accent, but just occasionally.

[624] Yeah.

[625] It's not even really pronounced.

[626] But once in a while she'll pop a word off, right?

[627] Like a boat will come up or something.

[628] And then you and I then in rehearsal, we just launched into our really bad Canadian accents, right?

[629] Yeah, where we did a whole.

[630] whole scene in Canadian accents.

[631] And just so if you don't know the behind the scenes, on a multi -cam sitcom, in our case, Monday through Wednesday you're rehearsing and you're planning where you're going to stand in each scene and everything.

[632] And so you do it multiple times.

[633] So once we started on this Canadian accent, it just got more and more outrageous each time.

[634] And then fucking Sam Elliott joined in with a real thick deep Canadian.

[635] Oh, yeah.

[636] When he jumped in with it, he came with it real hard.

[637] And he just brought it like a, real chap and it was perfect oh i got it's perfect for him like i would have thought he was from toronto the way he delivered it absolutely and i had kind of an out of body experience where i was like you know because for the most part and i think you and i are similar in this way it's like fake it till you make it if they invite me into some show or movie i just act like i belong there when i you know the kid from a dirt road's like how the fuck are you here but i can silence that voice quite often.

[638] But we've been doing that every day for our entire life, right?

[639] The whole thing's a fraud.

[640] Acting as if we belong in this room.

[641] Absolutely.

[642] All day long.

[643] And then I just had this moment where Sam Elliott's talking like a buffoon and we've somehow encouraged him to do that.

[644] And I had just this, I allowed myself to recognize, how are you sitting with Sam Elliott and he's now doing this silly, funny thing that you and Ashton started?

[645] How did this happen?

[646] This guys from Roadhouse.

[647] Yeah.

[648] It just made me so thrilled that I, like, I could see my life from outside of it.

[649] I was like, somehow you ended up cutting up with Sam Elliott.

[650] But that was you.

[651] Here's the thing I admire about you the most in those episodes, which is your ability to completely just fuck off for the three days of rehearsal.

[652] And then on show night, dial in and everything is perfect was just amazing.

[653] And at one point, the director came up to me Because I started fucking off Like, because you were fucking off.

[654] I was like a virus that's spread through it.

[655] He was, he, Dax's like jacking around like in the scene and what I like it.

[656] And trying different lines and doing whatever.

[657] And at one point the director comes to me and he goes, listen.

[658] Dax is really great at doing this.

[659] Oh no. I didn't know this.

[660] He goes, here's the thing.

[661] If you're both doing that, it's just going to be a. mess.

[662] So I would prefer it if you just stay on book.

[663] Held steady.

[664] Wow.

[665] Hold the line.

[666] And by the way, he was totally right because I was just all over the play.

[667] And then when it came to show night, I was like not ready to go up.

[668] Like, I don't have the gift that you have to do that.

[669] And so then I ended up having to just be like, okay, let's rain it in.

[670] Well, but hold on.

[671] That's generous of you because it's your show.

[672] You could have been like, I'm doing whatever I want.

[673] And he did.

[674] Let's just also say, you might have reined it in, but the mode of operandi became, we made sure they got what they were aiming to get.

[675] And then you and I had about four takes for us.

[676] Yeah, we were just flanking.

[677] We were just flanking for laughs.

[678] This is what I'm telling you.

[679] I'm not being too sentimental when I say this.

[680] This show taught me to love process because you and I became, lets you and I have fun with this audience that's right there.

[681] Yeah.

[682] And to do it knowing this will never make the show.

[683] I don't think I've ever acted that way where I would like, started it going, well, now we're going to do a take work.

[684] I know certainly this will not make the cut.

[685] So we're doing it literally for the love of doing it was a breakthrough for me. It's the beauty of shooting in front of a live audience.

[686] I mean, it is the glory.

[687] It's the instant gratification that you get when you shoot in front of a live audience.

[688] And you feel like you're the funniest person on the planet, even if you're.

[689] not I said to ashton I said this is like a virtual reality game where you get to experience what it's like to be chris rock like to be that level of fun yeah I'm like I would have never thought I could experience what it feels like to be chris rock and you go why the fuck do you think I've been doing this for 20 years like this yes it's fucking intoxicating and it's why I keep doing it's why I keep doing sitcoms is because it's so yummy.

[690] Oh, it's so fun.

[691] It's so yummy.

[692] I know a lot of people that are in our industry that are just naturally funny individuals.

[693] Like the way they say milk makes you laugh.

[694] I don't have that thing.

[695] Like I need material.

[696] I either have to really think about coming up with material that's going to be funny.

[697] I've got to like, I have to grind on it.

[698] I have to like dissect the joke to understand the joke.

[699] Like I have to do the whole process.

[700] But when you're in front of an audience on a sitcom like that, they don't know that there's a writer.

[701] Or that you rehearse for three days.

[702] Or that you rehearse for three days.

[703] They think you're just winging it.

[704] And they're convinced that you're hilarious.

[705] Well, and then we do wing it for a couple takes.

[706] And then it only confirms this theory that I think these people are making this whole show up in front of us.

[707] It's exhilarating.

[708] It is delightful.

[709] So you said the director and I just want to say publicly, David Traynor.

[710] So David Traynor did all of the 70 shows.

[711] Every single episode of the 70s show.

[712] And you met him when you're 19.

[713] Yeah.

[714] And then he did every episode of The Ranch.

[715] Yes.

[716] So 80 episodes of that.

[717] I mean, a truly beautiful man, much taller than both of you and I. Oh, wow.

[718] You got to buy into like some kind of parental thing.

[719] Yeah, but he's also just a brilliant human being.

[720] Yes.

[721] A, respect his intelligence.

[722] But then he also has this sort of staggering height that gives you this, you know, whenever you're looking up to someone, I think.

[723] it sort of triggers something it's something primitive yeah yeah it's a primitive thing like when you're you go back to looking at your dad it's like when you're hanging out with sheikhil o 'neal you feel like he could like cradle you yeah you're in charge that's my whole life oh my god that's my whole life god bless you looking up at people i like it in a confined uh dose you know yeah i really don't like hanging out with people that's all you and i are ideal we're looking dead eye to eye that's that's ideal for me i do not like going to basketball ball games with my wife because I feel like an inferior human.

[724] Or like if you go and stand on the sidelines at a football game and you're standing next to like real football play, you're like, I am an inferior human being to these other humans and I feel so insecure right now.

[725] They could run through me like a paper house.

[726] For sure.

[727] Yeah, it's weird.

[728] I trained Jiu -Jitsu.

[729] I just watch a video of you rolling with some world champion.

[730] There's a video of it?

[731] Yes.

[732] I had a hunch it wasn't with your knowledge.

[733] No, it is not.

[734] of my knowledge.

[735] It was yesterday.

[736] Okay.

[737] So I, you know, he's the number one jujizu guy in the world.

[738] Yes.

[739] And so I'm not going to read your Wikipedia again.

[740] A, I already did that and I know your life story.

[741] I was like, it's incumbent upon me to do a little something.

[742] So I just typed in your name and then hit news.

[743] I was like, oh, maybe something interesting has happened recently that I've missed.

[744] Found out Milo went somewhere and showed off her legs.

[745] Found out you guys are getting divorced 12 times.

[746] And then there's a video that comes right up if you hit news, and it's you rolling with this world champion.

[747] I have, I got to watch the video.

[748] Do I look terrible?

[749] Oh, I look like, am I holding my own?

[750] I think even the article that was attached to it, I read was like, for anyone who was questioning Ashton's commitment, who recent Brown Belt in October or whatever month you got your brown belt, this should settle all debate, and it shows you getting into it, working your ass off.

[751] Oh, God.

[752] You're going to be real happy with it.

[753] Oh, I'm not going to be happy.

[754] You are.

[755] I mean, I was, this guy, legitimately, the end.

[756] It was like a three -minute session or something.

[757] I mean, he showed me a bunch of different techniques and stuff.

[758] It was at the end of the workout.

[759] It was the last thing that we did.

[760] And I was like, all right, I'll just roll with you for a little bit.

[761] It was like, just don't hurt me. Yeah, yeah.

[762] And watch the face.

[763] So I'm rolling with him.

[764] And I am exhausted at the end.

[765] And at the end, like, after he finished rolling with me, he went and rolled with somebody else immediately after.

[766] Sure.

[767] I didn't even know it was being filmed.

[768] These things come out of the gym that I got my brown belt that I don't want out there Because the last thing I want I am the worst brown belt In the country Because I just got it Like I'm not good at this Right You just learn to walk Exactly And so the last thing I want Is like some guy Tough guy in me And like wanting to show me And he's only a purple belt And he wants to show I'll go even further I want I just don't want somebody picking a fight with me. Like, I don't want to fight anyone.

[769] I'll go even further.

[770] Like, 23 -year -old me sees this movie star, Ashton Kutcher, is a brown belt, thinks he's something.

[771] And not even I'm a purple belt.

[772] I would be like, oh, you think you're a bad motherfucker because you've trained in this.

[773] You're right.

[774] There's no win.

[775] It's the thing I least want to have happen anywhere.

[776] But anyway, back to my point is my teacher, Higin Machata, who's this hulking human being whose neck is like the size of my waist.

[777] And when he tells me something, I'm just like, yes, sir, but I need someone who's of that magnitude.

[778] Yes.

[779] Because otherwise I'm like, okay, let's just roll this out really quickly and then I'll decide really not going to do it.

[780] Right, right, right.

[781] My alpha will go nuts.

[782] Yes.

[783] Oh, God, the ego, isn't that great?

[784] Well, it's the ugliest thing about me. Well, I have to admit it about myself, it's so embarrassing.

[785] But yeah, well, Monica and I, we deal with this constantly.

[786] So we'll have a debate in real life.

[787] And then we get someone on here like your buddy Jared or we'll get Adam Grant or we'll get whoever, right?

[788] They'll say virtually the exact same thing that either one of us maybe it made that same point earlier in the week.

[789] But we were like, what the hell is they know?

[790] We both just dismissed.

[791] But then all of a sudden you get them on here and all of a sudden we're wide open, you know, to digest and take on their expertise.

[792] Yeah.

[793] Well, they've earned it.

[794] They've earned it.

[795] You haven't earned it.

[796] But they have not.

[797] We are the peanut gallery.

[798] we are officially the peanut gallery and by the way doing real well it's good to be I'm practicing appreciation and the fact that I am surviving living and being the peanut gallery and by the way I really appreciate the first time I was here you didn't have the lazy boy now you have a lazy boy that you get it wasn't no you didn't have a lazy boy when I came here the first time what you just had like sitting in a lawn chair no you just had like a desk chair that you were sitting Oh, that white shirt?

[799] Oh, that right there?

[800] Yeah, that's what you had the first time.

[801] So I really appreciate that you now actually rock a lazy boy.

[802] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[803] Okay.

[804] I asked about your New Year's resolution.

[805] Yeah, well, the thing we started with was right before we jumped on Hot Mike was no coffee.

[806] Oh, yes.

[807] So you and I, we love quitting things.

[808] We like challenges.

[809] We like this stuff.

[810] Maybe even to a pathological level at times, right?

[811] You and I would kind of check each other.

[812] Pressing to our better self.

[813] Yes.

[814] And I think you and I were good at going, you know, what's the end goal here?

[815] Who do you think is going to observe you doing this and finally pat you on the back while you feel like, okay.

[816] Yeah.

[817] This is over.

[818] So we're always trying to keep it in a healthy zone.

[819] Sometimes it is.

[820] Sometimes it's not.

[821] Yeah.

[822] So caffeine.

[823] So coffee and caffeine.

[824] Around the same time that I kind of was like, I think I'm done drinking.

[825] I was like, I think I'm done drinking coffee because I got to a point where I would wake up in the morning and before I could do anything, I had to have a cup of coffee.

[826] Well, didn't you have a unit in your bedroom or your bathroom or something?

[827] I thought you gave me this idea.

[828] Do you have one in your closet?

[829] I don't.

[830] I used to have a bar in my closet.

[831] Okay.

[832] Which is worse.

[833] But I legitimately had to have a cup and I would put ice in it so I could drink it faster so I could get the.

[834] the caffeine into the system to get the motor moving.

[835] And then I would just drink ice coffee all day long.

[836] I mean, all day long.

[837] Well, you got me into La Come.

[838] La Cologne.

[839] Yeah.

[840] I would just drink these cans of coffee, which is worth like two cups and one.

[841] But I would drink, likely I was drinking six to eight cups of coffee a day, every day.

[842] Yeah.

[843] And needed it to have the same energy that I had when I did.

[844] didn't drink coffee at all.

[845] And so then I was like cut the coffee, you know, you get cold turkey or you, you weaned yourself off?

[846] Cold turkey, but it was like headaches for a couple days that then sort of settled in.

[847] And then I was, you know, once you get through it.

[848] And all of it's part of like this weird, do you ever watch Naked and Afraid?

[849] Love it.

[850] And I think about me going on Naked and Afraid every time I watch it or Bear Grills or one of these things, which is kind of one of my goals.

[851] So all of this kind of comes back to what my goal.

[852] talking to me you haven't been on it to be honest well i kind of want to go on do bear grills yeah yeah i got invited to go once but it wasn't the right time i couldn't get but i kind of want to go do one of those things but i don't think i could do it without coffee and boo and suddenly i was like wait without coffee and booze i don't think i could go do the bear grills i'd have i'd have like like three days the first three days i would just be a miserable headache driven like Bickering with bear.

[853] Angry human beings.

[854] You climb that rope bear.

[855] And so I'm like, I'm like, this stuff's got to go.

[856] Like anything that prevents me from being on bear grills has got to go.

[857] What a great North Star.

[858] Part of it is this weird sort of apocalyptic thing where I go, you know, if it really hits the fan, I'm not going to just be able to swing by and get a cup of coffee at a Starbucks, right?

[859] So I want to be ready to roll.

[860] It's interesting because you and I have almost opposite apocalypse fantasy.

[861] So my apocalypse fantasy is I'm drinking through that.

[862] Like the apocalypse starts and I'm back on everything.

[863] But yours is kind of like there'll be nothing.

[864] I got to prepare for that.

[865] Mine is like how quickly can I build a bunker and or make my bunker fully functioning and for the kids.

[866] Well, yeah, I hit you with my opinion on it.

[867] It was you did not like it.

[868] Neither did my stepdad, which is I've seen these shows.

[869] I'm not going to spend another three years fighting hourly for my survival only to watch my family get second.

[870] actually abused before they kill me. The apocalypse happens.

[871] I'm going to procure a ton of opiates.

[872] We're all going to take a beautiful nap holding hands.

[873] We're going to go, what a great experience this was.

[874] This is just the wrong view.

[875] Because at that moment, you won't know if that apocalypse is a temporary occurrence or a lasting incident.

[876] And so here's what's about to happen.

[877] While you're in your dreamy opiate space with your children that you've just doped up and you're about to go, I'm going to come over and knock on your door the next day and be like can I borrow your doom buggy and you're going to be out guess what they'll all be yours and here's the thing then I'm going to I'm going to steal your doom buggy and after I steal your doom buggy and I'm out riding with my family like mad max with a machine gun in whatever else cruising around and everything settles down I'm going to be like oh man I'm going to miss tax yeah right right right until again the robo group of marauders over and you got to watch mila just get let off to the woods but you'd love fighting off a group of marauders i would i would love it this is also why i'm out there fighting the number one jujitsu guy in the world it's all planning the same thing if bear up grills and i get into a fight while we're out there yeah because you're i have a headache i need to be able to deal with bear grills okay so coffee so how long have you been on coffee because i've It's November.

[878] Wow.

[879] I've quit caffeine twice for like three months.

[880] I was immediately aware of like, to your point, my energy level is just totally normal.

[881] It's like there's no peaks in valleys and cumulatively it's higher.

[882] But I was like I don't enjoy being alive as much.

[883] There's like there was a general like decompression, lower stress levels.

[884] That was all nice.

[885] But then I'm like, I'm just not as excited to be alive without it.

[886] I just, I don't have that.

[887] I mean, I also have the, but I'm not a very social.

[888] person so I don't really go out and socialize and so I don't have like you know let's go get a couple of like so that doesn't occur to me I sleep better and so then I feel better in the morning as soon as I wake up I'm awake and you're probably more patient with your family in the morning I don't know about that okay okay good I mean I think everything just sort of like levels out but now I tend to wake up on my own without an alarm clock like 10 minutes before my kids wake up, which is really nice and feel fully rested.

[889] And it's pretty decent.

[890] Yeah, that does sound lovely.

[891] By the way, not to jump topics, but you were just a part of a fact check, a lengthy fact check, because we had January on.

[892] And she was pretty certain that you had gotten offered the 70s show at the same time as Cowboy Surfers.

[893] That's what she thought the name was of the show that you had gotten offered.

[894] She's accurate about that.

[895] Well, she's not accurate about the name because I figured out what the name was.

[896] It was a boat Derek show.

[897] Yeah.

[898] It was called, what was it called?

[899] Now I forget.

[900] Fuck, I don't know.

[901] I just wrote down Cowboys Surfers.

[902] I have it in mine.

[903] But it was the same week.

[904] You were going to do extreme sports to save a ranch, which is incredibly ironic because you are now on 80 episodes of a show about saving a ranch.

[905] Right.

[906] You were kind of destined to be in Cowboy Surfers is what we got into in the fact check.

[907] Okay, it's actually called Wind on Water.

[908] Wind on Water.

[909] That's right.

[910] Yeah.

[911] Oh, I looked it up.

[912] Six episodes.

[913] it did.

[914] Do you think they like that title because the acronym was wow?

[915] Maybe.

[916] Because it had action sports and stuff.

[917] That would have been.

[918] They're like, oh, by season two people call it, wow.

[919] I just didn't understand why it didn't match my version of what a ranch looked like.

[920] Yeah.

[921] Or like, or what ranchers did.

[922] So I was like, I don't know, this isn't quite my thing.

[923] But I'm glad that you guys fact checked it.

[924] Well, we really got into it because your initial thought is like, boy, did he choose right?

[925] Right?

[926] That's like what anyone would just go like, God, did he get lucky?

[927] He chose the 70s show and not that thing that didn't end up going.

[928] But then I was saying, maybe Cooch was the missing ingredient of Cowboy Surfers that would have made it.

[929] The 70s show.

[930] There's really no way to say.

[931] I don't think I could have saved it.

[932] You don't think so.

[933] Okay.

[934] Well, we'll never know.

[935] I'm sure I can.

[936] We'll never know.

[937] It was, yeah, that was my first week in L .A. The Cowboys Surfer, the Wind on Water, the 70s show.

[938] And Varsity Blues was the other one.

[939] And the crow.

[940] Oh.

[941] There was like a fourth version of the crow or something.

[942] And it was an insane first week in L .A. I mean, I almost had a horseshoe up my butt or something that week.

[943] I don't know.

[944] Crazy.

[945] It doesn't happen.

[946] Here's a conversation that I already brought it up, but we have it a lot.

[947] Okay.

[948] And I was just thinking, I know for me, personally it's changed in two years since you've been here.

[949] And I imagine it's changed for you as well.

[950] Identity.

[951] Huh?

[952] Go on.

[953] You and I are aware of what our identity is.

[954] We have things that we like to make the bedrock of our identity.

[955] It's evolved over time, right?

[956] It was an actor.

[957] Then it was an actor and an investor.

[958] And as this show comes to an end, I'm sure you're in a state of like, okay, who is Ashton now?

[959] Yeah.

[960] 20 -20 or the next decade.

[961] What kind of things have you been ruminating on?

[962] What things are you less, are less important in that, right?

[963] recipe for your identity and what things are gaining momentum.

[964] So the thing I'm finding, there have been a couple things that have like in just over the new year that have like really hit me hard, which is health is something you can't buy, right?

[965] Like you just, you have to earn it and you have to earn it through behavior.

[966] And so like a healthy person is like probably like number one on my target of, and that includes like it's not just physical health but mental health and everything else can i ask really quickly is that for the experiential immediate self just because you feel better or is it with the goal of longevity do you know which of those is the priority for you or a combination i think part of it is i feel like i'm one of the people that has hit this planet that just gets to live a really good life yeah yeah life is like extraordinarily good like i feel so lucky with the experiences of I've had, the people I'm around, the people I know, the connections that I have, the work I get to do, just every single ounce of my life.

[967] Like, I am, I mean, I went to the gym yesterday and got to wrestle with the number one guy in the world, like, and didn't even know he was going to be there.

[968] Right.

[969] And it just happened.

[970] Like, it was just like, like, I don't take that stuff for granted.

[971] Like, I just go, like, this life, I may never get.

[972] run at life that's this good again if I get another run at life.

[973] So I want to live as long as I can, but also I think it's tied to number two, which is my biggest identity and the biggest job I have to do for the next decade is raise my kids really well and give them a firm foundation so that they can make great life choices and expose them to as much as I can and model behavior so that they choose a trajectory for their own life that gives them fulfillment and joy and they can experience it the way that I've been allowed to experience life thus far.

[974] And so healthy and then father, like a great father is number two.

[975] And then do good things that leave a record of existence that was positive and appreciated.

[976] Yeah.

[977] That's, it was kind of the things.

[978] And do you find that for me, I wish I just was such a good person that I was aspiring to that on my own, but I'm not.

[979] I had to like check things off of a list personally.

[980] It was like trial and error.

[981] It's not like I knew what the thing I should be pursuing naturally.

[982] It was almost like I did all the wrong stuff first.

[983] And then I'm left with fewer options that I start exploring.

[984] Yeah, but we're all kind of doing that to some degree, right?

[985] I mean, that goes to the argument of like, do we actually have free will?

[986] Or are we just bouncing from one dopamine response, serotonin return, adrenaline pump to the next?

[987] And are all of our thoughts being generated by our past?

[988] and therefore we're not really choosing it's actually just sort of coming the illusion of choice yeah you say it kind of goes to that right i mean it's like we think that we're doing these things out of like a free will or choice but maybe it's just the randomness of an experience or an exposure that you had that is driving you towards x y or z yeah but we talked about it last time you were here and I do believe that this is profoundly true, which is the thing that overdelivered my expectations was being a dad.

[989] Yeah, but I would say the order of those things would be being a husband is extraordinarily fulfilling.

[990] Really?

[991] Yeah, when I put the work into being a husband, like put the work into being a husband.

[992] The return is so exponential to what I could expect, like the partnership and just the support when you're in the troughs.

[993] Like that is just unbelievable from a return basis.

[994] Being a father, same thing.

[995] Just the joy I get from my kids being happy to see me. Like a lot of people, like I'll run into people.

[996] They're really happy to see me. I'm like, cool.

[997] When my kids are happy to see me, I'm like, yes.

[998] Oh, yeah.

[999] Yes.

[1000] I'm great.

[1001] It's so fulfilling and wonderful.

[1002] And then when we have this text message thread that we have for the foundation.

[1003] So every time we find a kid or identify a kid, our kids have been recovered, like our wins channel.

[1004] Every time I get a message, it's like the software we built was used in this case and we found 36 kids that were being molested and the teacher is no longer in the school and whatever the story is.

[1005] Like that, you just go like, oh, I'm doing the right thing.

[1006] Like, I'm just doing the right thing as a person, and it just feels right.

[1007] I get the same thing also when I, like, have a founder from a company reach out and go, hey, that piece of advice that you gave me or that thing that you shared with me was unbelievably effective and it led to this.

[1008] And there was like some big win on it, you know, it's like you feel a purpose.

[1009] Yeah, that is a perfect transition because one of the things, again, in the news column I read about you today was a guy saying what I learned from Ashton Coucher.

[1010] at a conference and it was his number one thing he took away from it was your willingness to ask stupid questions when you're meeting with these tech companies and i was like wow that's counterintuitive because you and i bond over the fact that boy do we need everyone to think we're smart i mean it is killing us hourly where we're like someone could be just you're this you're that No, no, no, no, but listen to how smart I am.

[1011] We probably have 300 conversations on the ranch about what is going on.

[1012] For sure.

[1013] Like, we have an identity around wanting to be seen as a smart person.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] Yours makes sense because of dyslexia.

[1016] Yours makes sense because you're gorgeous.

[1017] You look like that.

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] And people probably just assumed you were one thing.

[1020] You were just a cute boy.

[1021] Was it a childhood thing or was it having been a model for a short, where you're like oh everyone thinks models are stupid i honestly don't know like i haven't fully dug into why the why on this well at one point you go i think if i would have just finished college i wouldn't have this big chip on my shoulder i'm like no i finished and i still have it but that is part of it too is like there was a very much an expectation that i was going to finish college and when I told my dad I was moving to New York to be a model I called him from New York on a pay phone and he was like, no, you're coming home right now I cut the shit you're going back to school you're going to be a biochemical engineer whatever the fuck you're just studying like get back here and I for the longest time was proving that that was the right choice but then also compensating to whatever degree I could to show that I didn't need to go to college.

[1022] Yeah, I didn't pay a price for this.

[1023] Right.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] But I will say, asking the stupid question.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] So what I wanted to say is I'm so proud of you that that is part of your fundamental reason you're successful in that field is that you're willing to do that because I think it's even harder for you or I to do that.

[1028] I have the hardest time, you know, admitting I don't understand some concept that's being presented to you.

[1029] But here's the thing.

[1030] It's like you said when.

[1031] Adam Grant comes and sits on your couch or Jared comes and sits on your couch that you sort of turn into a student, right?

[1032] Really quick.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] And when I'm meeting with these founders that are like all brilliant, well, not all of them, but most of them are brilliant geniuses, you become a student, right?

[1035] Because they have had this insight relative to this company and have built this organization to an extent where they're starting to sort of see these exponential returns and instantly you become a student and so it's the same reverence i i think that you would have if gladwell was sitting here or if grant was sitting here any of these people who's you have seen the brilliance in their work you have this reverence that then the moment you feel that reverence is the moment i flipped a switch and i go i usually say to them verbatim i have a high school degree explain this to me as if I have a high school degree I mean I say that to them verbatim and then I get the brass simple and they give me beautiful metaphors to help me understand things like super complicated things like blockchain and like I was looking at this like weird sort of encrypted data cages thing the other day and it was like I don't know what the but just by saying that you get an explanation that goes okay I got it cool now we can move on yeah and then your wealth of knowledge grows really really fast because you got it explained in the way you need to hear it in the way you need to hear it and in the way that most people that don't understand it fake is if they understand it in order to seem smart as opposed to really understanding what they're doing now do you wrestle with this so I agree I relate that's exactly what I do and you're right when Gladwell was there I was like, if he tells me the sky's black, I'm going to go, oh, he must know, and my eyes are fucked up, whatever.

[1036] Well, it's not really blue.

[1037] You know that.

[1038] I do know that.

[1039] Yeah, yeah.

[1040] I would love to explain angstroms to everyone just to show them how smart I am.

[1041] Blue lights scattering.

[1042] So I have a goal of every person is an expert.

[1043] Every person is those tech guys.

[1044] I've got to treat every person like what they're saying has as much value.

[1045] and I need to shut up and listen to those people, that's like kind of my new awareness is like, oh, I am an elitist in who I'm listening to, and I really have to aspire to.

[1046] I get to treat everyone like they're Adam Grant.

[1047] That's a goal.

[1048] I appreciate that goal.

[1049] Okay.

[1050] It seems unobtainable.

[1051] No, I, no, no, no. I truly appreciate that goal.

[1052] But the truth is, just from experience, Like, I have enough data around it that not everyone is going to enlighten you.

[1053] Well, that's true.

[1054] And oftentimes, you're in a conversation with someone.

[1055] And, I mean, I have a horrible habit of just checking out on a conversation.

[1056] Right, right, right.

[1057] When I just don't feel like I'm getting anything of nutrition, growth or substance.

[1058] And I was having a conversation with somebody a while back, and they said, no, the goal of a conversation at any moment, is either if you're going to respond on the same subject, the next response should add 10x value to the previous thing that was said.

[1059] And the moment you can't add 10x value to the previous thing that was said, you should actually move to a different subject or allow someone else to add something of 10x value.

[1060] And oftentimes you get into conversations with people that are just about the weather.

[1061] or about a person.

[1062] But it's not an enriching understanding of what happened.

[1063] It's just what happened.

[1064] Right.

[1065] It's like, so we went to the concert and then we rolled down the windows and then we saw Kanye West.

[1066] And Kanye was there and he had a cross around his neck, but he also had a Jewish stuff.

[1067] You know, and you're like, I'm not growing right now.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] And so, and then I go, knock it off.

[1070] Who are you to tell that, like, you know what I'm saying?

[1071] I mean, every single point of views is that, you know, whatever.

[1072] Anyway, it's just a bad habit of mine.

[1073] I'm trying to break, and I was trying to ensnare you into the same bad habit.

[1074] I will join you in making a greater effort to find the enlightened person in every person I interact with.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] I listen to Sam Harris.

[1077] I'm like, yeah, dude, you want to talk empirical stuff?

[1078] You're not going to beat him.

[1079] He's right.

[1080] He's telling you about the material world.

[1081] He's right.

[1082] But then I go, there's a whole emotion.

[1083] world that is as relevant and you got to give that respect yeah so i have to recognize that i too can fall into the well that's not empirical that's not no it's still relevant there's still a emotional truth existing you know encompassing every one of these empirical things it's going to pass through this emotional being no matter what the facts are and that's relevant yeah and the way the emotional being experiences it is as important as the data of what the they experienced.

[1084] Probably more.

[1085] Although the latest trend in humanity is that the way I heard it or experienced it is more valuable than what you were intending.

[1086] This is the latest trend in humanity that I think is an awful trend in humanity.

[1087] However you feel is the facts of the situation.

[1088] Yeah, exactly, that the greater importance is the way it made me feel rather than what you were intending and then a lack of willingness to even hear what someone was intending yeah yeah that is a dangerous societal trend that has bad news written all over it yeah i agree i agree i agree i am not responsible for your experience i am responsible for my actions i have to be responsible for my actions i have to be responsible for my intentions like i have to be responsible for what comes out of this entity definitely but if you hold a frying pan in a scene.

[1089] And one of the, your co -stars had been hit by their father with a frying pan and all of a sudden you are, you know, you're representing, well, I'm, I'm so sorry, but that's, that's got to be on you.

[1090] I'm just doing a thing anyone would do.

[1091] Well, that's, on you.

[1092] Pretty extreme.

[1093] Well, it's just so benign.

[1094] I mean, anyone, it gets grayer and grayer as you get closer to sexual harassment stuff.

[1095] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1096] But I do agree.

[1097] I totally, it's, well, I went to a, I wanted to really get, is, a, it's, a, it's, educated as I could on the Me Too movement.

[1098] My wife was doing a bunch of stuff and I wanted to really understand as much as I could.

[1099] And I went to this gathering of men for the Me Too movement to get educated on, you know, what's appropriate.

[1100] Yeah, just what's appropriate, what's inappropriate.

[1101] Like, because it's not about what I think is appropriate.

[1102] It's about what you think is appropriate.

[1103] And I wanted to understand that as well as I could.

[1104] And one of the things that was said was that complementing a woman on the way she is dressed in the workplace is an inappropriate thing and I wrestle with it in so much as if someone complimented me on the way I was dressed I wouldn't have a problem with it but then I went well I don't have a history of being sexualized in that way so therefore maybe it wouldn't be a problem yeah you have all the power and then I had a conversation with the folks at my work and I was like so I'll give a guy a compliment on the way he's dressed but I was I have this like thing from this training session about not wanting to compliment a female employee on the way she's dressed.

[1105] And I have more female employees than male employees.

[1106] And so I don't do it.

[1107] And then if occasionally like I go, oh, wow, that's a great coat.

[1108] I go, I don't, like, I immediately go, I immediately retreat.

[1109] And I go, I'm sorry if that is offensive in any way.

[1110] Like I really just, I, I really just appreciate the materials of the coat and what the coat.

[1111] And now I'm making it fucking awkward.

[1112] Because I'm so.

[1113] Oh, Well, what if it actually led you into sexually harassment or accident?

[1114] Like, I'm just talking about the coat.

[1115] I don't want to fuck you or have oral sex with you or make out with you.

[1116] Even heavy pet.

[1117] Like, that is not where I'm...

[1118] I don't want to remove the coat and see what's cracking underneath that outfit.

[1119] It's so tricky.

[1120] Because, of course, if you say that, I like your coat, 99 .999 % of women are going to be like, thanks.

[1121] Great.

[1122] And not think twice about it.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] But if you're staring at her.

[1125] her boobs and you say, I really like your shirt.

[1126] It's the same words.

[1127] Well, the problem is that your shirt covers your boobs.

[1128] So if I'm looking at your shirt and it's got a bunch of writing on it, she's begging me. You're asking me. I am.

[1129] I am.

[1130] To look in that direction.

[1131] I'm not saying I'm looking at your boobs, but you're going, hey, look at the thing that is this jam, custard, raspberries, beef.

[1132] And I totally agree with you.

[1133] But the thing is, there's a funny thing that happens when you're aware of it, right?

[1134] where I've now gone from like I was like I was just not going to say anything about the way that anybody's dressed and then and I go that doesn't make any sense like if I like someone's coat it's the same as like in their car or the same as like I'm not trying to sexual it and understand this is with full understanding that there are some guys that are out there that are not saying it because they like their coat but that are trying that there's an agenda behind it well and and that's really where it becomes so.

[1135] so hard to come up with the protocol because it's not about asking the clothes.

[1136] Like I've had a woman who was in love with me at work and it's anything.

[1137] Oh, do you have clone on?

[1138] Oh, do you have these shoes?

[1139] What it really is is just unwanted attention, which is very hard to quantify.

[1140] Yes, in banish.

[1141] You know, you can't have no conversation rule.

[1142] No unwanted attention rule.

[1143] Yeah, that's what makes it so murky is it's like, okay, well, we'll say it's closed, but it could be anything, right?

[1144] Oh, do you take surface streets to work.

[1145] It's like, John, just fucking leave me alone.

[1146] You know.

[1147] You can sense people's energy.

[1148] You can sense a lot of intention.

[1149] I mean, I think that's a big part of it.

[1150] I bet you get a lot of fire thrown at you.

[1151] I'm certainly more interested in stuff you do than I should be.

[1152] It's because of your looks.

[1153] Thank you.

[1154] I love you.

[1155] Thank you so much for coming again.

[1156] Thank you for having me. I hope we do this like a dozen times over the years, to be honest.

[1157] I want to be like in the five timers clubs where I get like a jacket or something for being the most.

[1158] The hell like Baldwin of Yeah, like the Tom Hanks, Steve Martin, like, where we have like a little smoker, like we can smoke a cigar.

[1159] All right, love you.

[1160] Love you.

[1161] Bye.

[1162] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1163] I hope you start doing more gross stuff so it equals out.

[1164] You know, I'm clearing my throat all the time and all.

[1165] When we watch TV sometimes on the couch and I'm aware that I'm over there going, and I'm like, I'm like, oh my God, Monica.

[1166] She goes, she must just hate it.

[1167] I've got so much stuff going on, being allergic to that dog.

[1168] I don't hate it at all.

[1169] I was thinking that, so I'm going to Austria next.

[1170] On Saturday.

[1171] You're in Austria.

[1172] I'm in Austria currently.

[1173] Yeah, yeah.

[1174] Actually, I'm not in Austria.

[1175] Currently, I'm back.

[1176] You're home from, how was Austria?

[1177] Austria was fantastic.

[1178] Oh, great.

[1179] Well, this would be a great reverse way to set a narrative.

[1180] Start by reflecting on your trip, and then you'll fulfill that.

[1181] Oh, kind of like a self -fulfifference.

[1182] Filling Prophecy.

[1183] We had the best time.

[1184] I met Ben and Matt there.

[1185] Oh, my God.

[1186] Three -way?

[1187] Intense three -way.

[1188] Oh, wow.

[1189] Anyway, so because of that, I've had to work ahead.

[1190] Yeah, you've been real busy.

[1191] So I've been...

[1192] I haven't been at the house.

[1193] I have been working from sun up to sundown.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] But I've just been by myself.

[1196] I've just been by myself sort of in my bed all day working.

[1197] Oh, yeah.

[1198] And, you know, weird stuff.

[1199] stuff happens when you're by yourself all day.

[1200] You know?

[1201] You pick your butt or something?

[1202] Well, okay.

[1203] We don't need to talk about that.

[1204] But like some, I'll like say things out loud to myself and funny voices.

[1205] Oh, that's great.

[1206] You do character work when you're by yourself?

[1207] I do only when I'm by myself.

[1208] Oh, my God.

[1209] I want to tap into your ring.

[1210] But, you know, things get a little loopy when you're by yourself for that long.

[1211] Oh, yeah.

[1212] Well, you know, when I go do my writing ritual at the hotel, I just get weirder and and weirder and weirder.

[1213] There's also these breaks where I go in the bathroom.

[1214] to pee, and then I just pause in the mirror and make myself embarrassed for like 20 minutes.

[1215] Sure, sure.

[1216] Yeah, I just get weird and weird.

[1217] I know.

[1218] People are weird, right?

[1219] We need each other to not become freaks.

[1220] I mean, I thought that in life a lot, like, maybe that's part of why I need a partner.

[1221] Uh -huh.

[1222] Because otherwise, you just turn into a nut job if you're just by yourself.

[1223] But I've also had moments where I'm by myself and I've had a weird thing, and then I feel grateful that I don't have a partner.

[1224] Right, sure.

[1225] So I can do that.

[1226] Well, no. He's not making everything about farts and butts.

[1227] I'm sorry.

[1228] I just, those are the embarrassing things.

[1229] That's where my head goes to.

[1230] Or you might blow your nose on a sock or something.

[1231] I'm sure you do really gross stuff when you're by yourself.

[1232] Yeah, you do.

[1233] Come on.

[1234] I don't blow my nose into a sock.

[1235] Well, sometimes you make, I'm sure you don't have tissue next to your bed all the time.

[1236] I must run out.

[1237] Well, yeah.

[1238] And then what do you do?

[1239] You just suck it up.

[1240] Oh, okay.

[1241] Do you think that's what the original term suck it up means?

[1242] Suck up your spot?

[1243] I don't know.

[1244] Well, says it comes from World War II pilots.

[1245] If a pilot happened to vomit in their oxygen mask, they had to suck it up.

[1246] Ew, that's disgusting.

[1247] Even worse.

[1248] Like, we thought we were coming up with the grossest one possible, and it's even grosser.

[1249] Yeah, otherwise I'd breathe it in and die.

[1250] Oh, aspirate.

[1251] Anyway, so Austria was great.

[1252] Oh, good.

[1253] I'm so glad you had such a great time.

[1254] So Ashton.

[1255] Round two.

[1256] Yeah, round two.

[1257] Yeah, he's your buddy.

[1258] He is my buddy.

[1259] I've grown closer to him from the first interview to the second one because we work together almost every day for a year and a half.

[1260] That's not true, not every day, but, you know, big chunks of the last year and a half.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] What did we have some fun together?

[1263] Really enjoyed being there on that show.

[1264] You know what's funny?

[1265] I didn't tell him this, but I consider telling him.

[1266] When we were shooting the images for Monica and Jess Love Boys, I was pulling out all these old magazine ripped out.

[1267] of hot guys at that time and I had multiple of Ashton oh you did shirtless that was so funny so full circle yeah I think a few were shirtless yeah nice taught physique mm -hmm always keeps it lean well we talked about it well you sure even gone leaner I didn't make that wall you know what can you do well no that was before your time yes it was no no Ashton's like peak was right when I got involved with them no yeah no Just married had just come out.

[1268] But the, by the way, I was obsessed with him and just married.

[1269] Of course you were.

[1270] He's funny and cute.

[1271] There's a scene of him.

[1272] I also listened to the, wow, this is, I forgot.

[1273] I guess I really liked him.

[1274] Yeah, I guess I did.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] Because there was also a commentary on that DVD and I listened to that a ton.

[1277] Oh, that's great.

[1278] Mainly so I could just like hear him talk.

[1279] Oh, man. He was a real, real crush.

[1280] I guess.

[1281] And there's a scene where he's crying in it.

[1282] Oh.

[1283] And I watched that over and over.

[1284] I love that when guys cry.

[1285] I love that.

[1286] I loved it.

[1287] I don't know if I still do, but I did.

[1288] Such a kink.

[1289] What a weird kink.

[1290] Such a weird thing.

[1291] But by the time he did punked, he was already big because that was the big draw.

[1292] Well, I can just tell you in order.

[1293] So he's on the 70s show.

[1294] So he's pretty popular.

[1295] It was the big, big show.

[1296] But then in rapid succession, punked and just married came out.

[1297] And then he really was like ubiquitous.

[1298] But wasn't there something before?

[1299] I guess.

[1300] Well, dude wears my car.

[1301] Right.

[1302] But it wasn't, he didn't get that crazy pop.

[1303] Dude, where my car was really popular.

[1304] It was really popular.

[1305] It was big.

[1306] But I do think people maybe were crediting the title and the concept more, where just Mary was like, oh, this is a star vehicle for this guy.

[1307] It's a romantic comedy and an open number one.

[1308] It was so good.

[1309] You loved him.

[1310] I love it.

[1311] So different in real life, right?

[1312] Like when you meet, he's very serious in real life.

[1313] He's very playful in those rom -coms.

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] And he's a pretty serious guy, which I like.

[1316] Okay.

[1317] So you didn't make my wall and you're upset about this.

[1318] Oh, yeah, a little hurt, little hurt.

[1319] Okay, listen, first of all, first of all, I didn't know.

[1320] Well, I did know you from Punked.

[1321] Well, I would hope I was the main guy.

[1322] You were the main guy.

[1323] You were the funniest guy.

[1324] I only watched the episodes that you were on.

[1325] Okay, okay.

[1326] I don't actually know if that's true.

[1327] I doubt it is.

[1328] But you were the funniest guy.

[1329] Well, we did have, before we met you liked parenthood.

[1330] You were just past the age.

[1331] That was way.

[1332] past my time.

[1333] Yeah, you're poster age.

[1334] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1335] But it is funny.

[1336] Every now and then, I will, mainly with fashion comes up or something.

[1337] I have like an image.

[1338] I remember when punked premiered and it was Justin Timberlake.

[1339] Right.

[1340] And it was a huge hit.

[1341] Oh, yeah.

[1342] And everyone was talking about it.

[1343] And I remember watching it.

[1344] I have an image of you doing your talking head.

[1345] And sometimes I do think about that and feel like.

[1346] sure what is my life sure sure that I'm sitting across from that person not sitting across I live my life in tandem with this person yeah it's all very weird is it wow it's my dad's simulation is it a good one oh my god speaking of my dad's simulation Amy Klobuchar did she win third place third place for new hampshire or for Iowa which is still for new hampshire okay third place for new hampshire and on CNN's like homepage they had a picture of her this whole and i just pulled this up my dad willed this to happen he did he was telling us two years ago that she was the person we were dismissing him so quickly i had never heard her name what she's from where he's from minnesota my mom and i were screaming at him oh yeah yeah yeah what why are you bringing up this random person well i think the subtext of your guys's attack on him was that he was like horny for or something like what do you doing dad you purve you've singled out this female no that's not it at all okay darn it was that he's such a contrarian uh -huh and he's always bringing up stuff that seems like dad what why are you saying this right now just to be different yeah and he's always right yeah he's good he's good he's a lot like you I hate to admit it but yeah yeah speaking of you being right you're right about the Polynesian migration yep you sent me an article sent an article yeah you did it I'm gonna you know I was laying in bed last night thinking about like god damn this bitch I'm gonna go through all my fucking anthro things I'm gonna go through those old books I have just should I'm not imagining all this shit I think you are I am not I'm not an imaginer of shit well can we be honest about something yeah I love honesty you went to college in 1972 yeah Yeah, yeah.

[1347] And times have changed a little bit since then.

[1348] Oh, I'm totally open to, like, discovering the science was bad that I learned.

[1349] Right.

[1350] When I'm not okay with is that I imagined the science I learned.

[1351] Because I can't make up a whole theory about why English women became pregnant by American GIs.

[1352] Like, I'm not going to just dream that up.

[1353] I definitely read that.

[1354] Now, that could be since debunked.

[1355] Yes.

[1356] And I guess you need to be open to the debunking.

[1357] Oh, I'm open.

[1358] I'm wide open.

[1359] Oh, open sesame?

[1360] I don't mind if you go, oh, yeah, we, well, by the way, that happened when we interviewed Jason Delion afterwards, I was talking with some anthro teachers, and she was like, don't ever say that everyone came over on the Siberian land bridge, which is what I was taught 20 years ago, that all of the Native Americans and Native South Americans had come over from the Bering Strait land bridge and migrated south until they reached the tip of Patagonia.

[1361] she's saying they're finding like watercraft and stuff that shows that no a lot of those people in South America they got there by boat so anyways it's all up in the air wow yeah I just don't want to be guilty of like conjuring up fake things I know but also people remember things wrong I do I mean I learned stuff and I'm definitely remembering all that wrong yeah there's no way you're definitely wrong I'm wrong okay another thing you're right about oh I'm really giving you a lot of stroking today.

[1362] Stroke.

[1363] Stroke it slowly.

[1364] Okay, so Radio Lab blame that episode.

[1365] I love that episode.

[1366] I listened to it a long time ago and you know, you keep saying he has epilepsy.

[1367] And in my head, I was like, he doesn't have epilepsy.

[1368] He has something else.

[1369] And it's definitely not epilepsy.

[1370] And it is epilepsy.

[1371] I went back and listened.

[1372] Well, you know why I would never forget that is my Uncle Joel had the exact same procedure as the guy in blame.

[1373] But he didn't have any down, you know, that we know of.

[1374] No, it's all.

[1375] But before I ever heard blame, here's what I heard from my Uncle Joel.

[1376] He was going in for that procedure.

[1377] And they warned he and his wife, he may experience a radical shift in his personality.

[1378] And I thought, what a precarious procedure to have where you might be a different person when you wake up?

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] And then that gave me the idea to make a movie about a guy who gets that and then just becomes like rides Harleys and stuff.

[1381] But then we find out he just used it as an opportunity to a second chance to be who he wanted to be.

[1382] It's a cute concept.

[1383] I like it.

[1384] Anyway, blame.

[1385] Okay, so it is epilepsy, but a little more context.

[1386] So he had this surgery.

[1387] Oh, and one thing I always find so fascinating about that surgery is he was a musician.

[1388] He was like music was a huge part of his.

[1389] life so he was awake during the surgery and he said this is the one element of my life that cannot change and so they had him sing throughout the surgery and when they hit a part of his brain where he stopped singing they stayed away from it yeah it's just so fascinating i know okay so the doctor who was on this said the way the brain is organized there are parts of our brain that are way deep down that control -based desires, like hunger and sex, keeps us alive, but it's teeming with the nastiest thoughts.

[1390] We all have these crazy thoughts in our head, and most of us, those thoughts are kept in check because there are other parts of our brain that sit on top and act like a lid.

[1391] But in Kevin's case, the brain surgeon who did that surgery removed part of that filter, and suddenly all of that stuff, sort of came to life.

[1392] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1393] Well, the part of it that I hated to even comprehend, right, was that is it within all of us to be a pedophil?

[1394] It is, it sounds like.

[1395] So that's what's crazy is this guy starts watching pornography and then just every kind of pornography is appealing to him all of a sudden and had not been prior.

[1396] Yeah, everything is on the table.

[1397] That controls your repressive instincts, which are good in a lot of these ways, that that goes away.

[1398] Because remember, it was also like he was eating a ton.

[1399] Yeah, he gained weight.

[1400] He wanted to fuck his wife all the time.

[1401] Yeah, he wanted to eat sweets.

[1402] He just got so indulgent to the extremes.

[1403] Something horrible happened.

[1404] What?

[1405] So Emily of Emily's burger.

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] They contacted me, and they said, we want to send you guys something special.

[1408] And I was like, oh, my God, going to be dead.

[1409] I don't know what it is, but I want it.

[1410] So she was like, okay, it's perishable.

[1411] All the better.

[1412] I know.

[1413] BQs, PQs.

[1414] So then I get to my apartment one day and there's a tag.

[1415] It didn't get left.

[1416] Oh, shit.

[1417] I hate that.

[1418] Got everyone in the world no signature required.

[1419] I know.

[1420] Forever.

[1421] No more signature required.

[1422] Yes.

[1423] Our world has changed.

[1424] No one's going to be around to get this shit.

[1425] I had to text her and say, oh, they didn't leave it.

[1426] And she was like, oh, no. Okay, well, you know, it won't laugh.

[1427] It's that's already gone.

[1428] But she was like, but there's a few other things in there for you guys, like some sweatshirt and stuff.

[1429] She was like, okay, great.

[1430] But I was like, well, I'm not in a rush to go pick that up from the post office.

[1431] The post office calls today.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] And they're like, this is Teresa from the post office.

[1434] You have a package here and it smells horrible.

[1435] Oh, oh, my God.

[1436] It smells horrible.

[1437] Oh, my God, there's an old burger in it.

[1438] It has to be, right?

[1439] I think how the sweatshers are going to smell.

[1440] I think it's meat.

[1441] Yeah, yeah, burger.

[1442] No, no, I think it's raw meat.

[1443] I don't even think, I think it was like the components for, actually, I mean, I have no idea actually what it is.

[1444] Who knows?

[1445] Hopefully, I'd ask Emily if she'd send us another one to your house because there'll be people there to sign for it.

[1446] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1447] Oh my God, I want it, whatever it is, I want it so bad.

[1448] What if it comes while I'm in Austria and I can't eat it?

[1449] I won't be able to save it for you.

[1450] I can't.

[1451] It's perishable.

[1452] Monica, it's perishable.

[1453] I had such a bad time in Austria because I didn't get my food.

[1454] Anyway, so this is a disaster because now I think the sweatshers probably we probably can't even wear those.

[1455] Wow, they probably smell pretty good like me. Yeah, they have to smell like me. Anyway, that's a d -rail.

[1456] Oh, God, that's a good update though.

[1457] Okay, so back, back to brain surgery and all this stuff.

[1458] Yeah, anyway, that's good, good wrap up.

[1459] Okay, so any sex with an underage person is trafficking.

[1460] That's what you said you just learned.

[1461] So, yeah, according to the definition used by Homeland Security, human trafficking involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act.

[1462] Uh -huh.

[1463] That's what it means.

[1464] I thought it meant transporting.

[1465] So did I. Trafficking.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] I need a better word for it.

[1468] I'm sorry.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] Get a better word for it, guys.

[1471] I'm sorry, but need a better word.

[1472] Okay, so we talked about a lot about foster care.

[1473] Mm -hmm.

[1474] So, yeah, so he said 500 ,000 a year.

[1475] Hey, Google.

[1476] How many children are in foster care in United States?

[1477] Here's what I understood from the website Adoptuskids .org.

[1478] According to the most recent federal data, there are currently more than 400 ,000 children in foster care.

[1479] Do you want a little more context?

[1480] No, thank you.

[1481] So Kristen works really closely with this organization called, Alliance of Moms here in L .A. It's this awesome organization that's working to sort of help some of these issues.

[1482] And I emailed the woman who runs it, Jules, and I asked her to send me some stats.

[1483] And she mainly has California stats, but she then emailed me this morning and said, so the 2018 fiscal year numbers are 437 ,283 children in foster care.

[1484] I mean, I know.

[1485] That's like the population of Iceland.

[1486] Right.

[1487] But then Ashton Mait also is like, it's a lot, but it's not so many that it's unmanageable.

[1488] Like, we can do things to help.

[1489] Oh, right.

[1490] We have the resource.

[1491] Yes.

[1492] And then she said 262 ,956 entering during the fiscal year of 2018.

[1493] So, oh, so she sent me some other stats.

[1494] So she sent a graph about pregnancy.

[1495] And so for the general population.

[1496] population, at age 17, you have 10 % pregnancy.

[1497] Oh.

[1498] Wait, 10 % of 17 -year -olds are pregnant?

[1499] That's what it says.

[1500] For foster youth, it's 26%.

[1501] At age 17, they're pregnant.

[1502] This is incredible.

[1503] And then at age 19, 20 .1 % for the general population.

[1504] Okay.

[1505] And for foster youth, 49 .3.

[1506] percent are pregnant by age 19.

[1507] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1508] Oh, oh boy.

[1509] Well, and then that's what Alliance of Moms does.

[1510] They'll do these events and they'll bring these moms and basically try to break that cycle.

[1511] Yeah, yeah.

[1512] It's a big job.

[1513] But it's amazing.

[1514] All right.

[1515] And Dairy Queen.

[1516] Yeah.

[1517] You know, Ashen said Warren Buffett owns Dairy Queen.

[1518] I had no idea.

[1519] I didn't know that either.

[1520] But yeah.

[1521] Berkshire Hathaway.

[1522] Sure.

[1523] His big conglomerate.

[1524] Yep.

[1525] Bought Dairy Queen in 1998 for $585 million.

[1526] Oh, wow.

[1527] And it's rumored that he likes the vanilla soft serve top with chocolate syrup and malted milk powder.

[1528] Of course he does.

[1529] What an original buff it is.

[1530] But I bet he mixes it up, I bet.

[1531] I'm surprised.

[1532] I wouldn't have been surprised if he just likes to eat a bear cone.

[1533] Like nothing in it.

[1534] Just he loves their cones.

[1535] No, he's like a normal dude.

[1536] Oh, an eccentric normal dude.

[1537] Yeah, but normal.

[1538] Fascinating documentary about Warren Buffett.

[1539] I love Warren Buffett.

[1540] He's awesome.

[1541] But his wife, who was a very ambitious, engaged woman, who loved Warren a ton, it occurred to her.

[1542] He's never leaving Omaha.

[1543] Like, that's it.

[1544] He will be there, and he works a lot.

[1545] Yeah.

[1546] And she said, I want to live in San Francisco.

[1547] I just want to.

[1548] and I, the projects I want to, you know, she's a philanthropist.

[1549] And so she left.

[1550] She moved to San Francisco.

[1551] They didn't get divorced.

[1552] She loved him.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] And she said to one of their mutual friends, can you please come over and make Warren dinner?

[1555] Because if you don't, he won't eat.

[1556] Like, you know, he's hyper -focused.

[1557] She asked this neighborhood woman if she'd do that, and that neighborhood woman started doing that.

[1558] And then they started spending more and more time together.

[1559] And then she moved in and they lived together.

[1560] It seems quite clear they did.

[1561] and they still live together and the wife though got sick and died of I want to say cancer and Warren was there with her and took care of her and yet was so they had a thing a thruple and I love it I guess it's just very open yeah I just admire anyone and it's like oh that's cool that's how you guys do things but this is this thing that works for us and I don't really care about the societal pressure of that I just kind of admire that yeah but also you know he gives half his money I mean, he gives, he, he gives all this money, but he has, he has that sort of declaration, what's it called?

[1562] Like the Buffett list or something.

[1563] It's the bill and Melinda Gates thing initiated it.

[1564] And they got him to sign on.

[1565] Right.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] Where you give half your money away.

[1568] I think even more.

[1569] I think he's, I think he's like designated to give like 80 % of this.

[1570] I think he, but I think the people who sign up for this.

[1571] Yeah.

[1572] Yeah.

[1573] Pledge.

[1574] Something pledge.

[1575] Yeah.

[1576] The wealth pledge.

[1577] It's called the wealth pledge.

[1578] It's available.

[1579] Let's ask.

[1580] Let's ask.

[1581] Let's ask.

[1582] Let's ask Google.

[1583] Hey, Google, what is the Bill and Melinda Gates wealth pledge?

[1584] On the website giving pledge .org, they say, Bill and Melinda Gates the Giving Pledge.

[1585] We have been blessed with good fortune beyond our wildest expectations, and we are profoundly grateful.

[1586] But just as these gifts are great, so we feel a great responsibility to use them well.

[1587] It's cool.

[1588] It's very cool.

[1589] And everyone already knows.

[1590] He lives in this modest house.

[1591] By the way, this is just to tip my hat again to John D. Rockefeller.

[1592] He invented this shit.

[1593] He gave away everything.

[1594] It's my top dog.

[1595] O .G. Original giver.

[1596] Just why the sky isn't blue?

[1597] Short answer.

[1598] Oh, I know why.

[1599] I know.

[1600] Yeah, I know you know.

[1601] You said that.

[1602] Sure.

[1603] Okay.

[1604] So, the light that enters Earth is pure white light.

[1605] And white light is made up of all the color.

[1606] in the rainbow, and they have different wavelengths.

[1607] And so those are measured in angstroms.

[1608] And at the far end of the visible scale, you have red light, which is around 7 ,000 angstroms.

[1609] And then at the beginning of that, the shortest wavelength is blues around 4 ,000 angstroms.

[1610] So when the light passes through the clouds, the clouds in the atmosphere are such that that short wavelength light reflects off of it and illuminates the atmosphere blue.

[1611] But you'll notice sunsets are red because now the light is passing through much more atmosphere as its angle of approach is flattened out.

[1612] It's going to pass through a ton more atmosphere.

[1613] And then you're going to get into those 7 ,000 angstrom wavelengths are going to start getting reflected and illuminate the sky.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] Do I get it right?

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] Well, the short answer is.

[1618] That's pretty short for the whole history of angstroms and wavelengths.

[1619] Sunlight reaches Earth's atmosphere and is scattered in all directions by all the gases and particles in the air.

[1620] Blue light is scattered more than the other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves.

[1621] This is why we see blue sky most of the time.

[1622] Great.

[1623] Well, they just left out the sunset part, which I'm glad I added.

[1624] Well, sure, sure.

[1625] And then just wanted to touch on this.

[1626] We talked about you being the gratitude police.

[1627] I just wanted to dive into that for a sec. Why do you think you are like that?

[1628] The gratitude police.

[1629] Because I think the only thing we really suffer from is bad perception, and you can control your perception.

[1630] You control it with a gratitude list.

[1631] It's like just an incredibly useful tool for shaping your perception of life around you.

[1632] But you're angry about it.

[1633] Like you're not like, oh, that's probably not good for that person.

[1634] Like you personally.

[1635] I'm disappointed in the human condition that we all grow immediately accustomed to whatever great thing that's happening.

[1636] And I just, I'm frustrated that that's our nature.

[1637] But it's what makes us pursue science and build bridges and go to fucking space.

[1638] So there's like this great aspect of it.

[1639] But yet it's really detrimental to our just overall happiness because we refuse to acknowledge all the wonderful things around us.

[1640] So I just see it as the antidote to that nature we're born with.

[1641] Yeah, that's a good.

[1642] Was that as good as my blue sky explanation?

[1643] It was.

[1644] I think you generally don't love it when I do it to you.

[1645] you where you feel like I'm ungrateful no I don't feel like you're ungrateful I feel like you could benefit from listing some things you're grateful for ungrateful is a character assessment mine's more in the moment you're feeling depressed I go did you work out I have the same exact things I say to you every time do you work out and you go generally you say no because you're generally not miserable right after a workout no one is and then I say do you have you made a gratitude list like you've taken stock of all the good things Yeah, and that one's triggering, not the workout one.

[1646] Well.

[1647] Because I think you think I'm proposing that you're ungrateful as a characteristic of your character.

[1648] I don't think I'm ever triggered when you're saying it when I'm like down.

[1649] Uh -huh.

[1650] I'm triggered when you are saying it when it's in relation to you.

[1651] Oh.

[1652] When it's something connected to you.

[1653] Well, obviously, I always think this show should be on your gratitude list, but then not because I'm involved.

[1654] I mean, I can see where it gets murky, but I'm, whatever job you would have had that you made a good amount of money and were satisfied with, I'd be pointing to that.

[1655] I just happen to be involved with that.

[1656] Yes, I agree.

[1657] And I'm so grateful for this job.

[1658] But it's also like.

[1659] But let me be clear.

[1660] I don't want you to be grateful to me, but I want you to be grateful for the shit you have.

[1661] Not so that I can receive your gratitude.

[1662] I want you to feel grateful.

[1663] Yes, I get that.

[1664] But also, that's like saying you shouldn't ever be upset on set.

[1665] And you're upset a fair amount, right?

[1666] I agree.

[1667] I shouldn't be.

[1668] And what I need in those moments is a fucking gratitude list.

[1669] So when I have that behavior, I'm unhappy with myself and I know the solution.

[1670] But you can also recognize that being on set.

[1671] is an amazing thing what so many people want and it's everyone's goal and you have it and you should be grateful.

[1672] But that also, also all those people don't really know that there's things about that thing that you can feel frustrated about.

[1673] And it's okay that you have frustrations about that.

[1674] Yes, absolutely.

[1675] And I am, I don't think I'm ever suggesting these things to you when you're upset for one afternoon.

[1676] I think it's generally when you're in like a two -day slump that I start saying, have you worked out and stuff?

[1677] Right.

[1678] Because it can sound dismissive, right?

[1679] Not just with this.

[1680] In general, when people are like, just be grateful.

[1681] Yeah, you and I have, like, you and I have such different triggers, which is just how it is.

[1682] That doesn't trigger me. Like, if I am unhappy, I know it is my job to get out of being unhappy, and I know the things that will result in that.

[1683] Yeah, I have that, too.

[1684] Yeah.

[1685] So if I'm in an AA meeting someone and I'm like, oh, I've just been feeling like shit.

[1686] And then someone says to me, oh, have you worked out?

[1687] Have you, blah?

[1688] I don't get defensive.

[1689] I'm like, no, I haven't.

[1690] You're right.

[1691] I know that's the solution.

[1692] But I don't think I am triggered at all when you say that when the problem is just like, yeah, I've been low for three days or something.

[1693] But if it's like I'm coming to you with a problem with this show or something, let's say.

[1694] And then you're bringing up being grateful.

[1695] I mean, that's like if you went to Liz and you were a completely.

[1696] And she was like, have you thought about how good of a job it is?

[1697] You would not like it.

[1698] I want it.

[1699] I don't think I've ever done that to you, but you think I have.

[1700] So we'll just have to agree.

[1701] I think I've only ever tried to remind you of the latter out of feeling depressed.

[1702] Well, then, yeah, I guess we're just seeing it through different ones, which is fine.

[1703] Yeah.

[1704] That's totally fine.

[1705] It is.

[1706] All righty.

[1707] Well, that's all for AK.

[1708] Oh, well, another stellar episode with the boss.

[1709] Yeah, he wants to be the Alec Baldwin of this show.

[1710] Oh, God, I'm going to hold him to that.

[1711] Yeah.

[1712] All right, love you.

[1713] Bye, love you.

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