73 - Chill Satanist

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Sarah Audio Hi, welcome to my favorite murderer.

[17] That's Karen Kilgarra And that's Georgia Hard Star And we are here And we are phony This is how we do the podcast From now on I hope you like it We were told by podcast consultants That we should act like this At the beginning of the podcast If you're new to this podcast You can You probably hate us already You can go to hell You can fuck right off That'd be awesome That's supposed to curse anymore I forgot Oh that's right You can F right off You can F right in the A You can go to HE double hockey sticks And also email us because that's you're supposed to get that this social media aspect going right we're at Twitter and we're at and we're at um we're both on bumble even though george is married what's another one that's good i actually um wait you might have to cut this out steven because i'll say her name to you but i don't know it um leave it no is lizzie and i were talking about bumble we were just talking about dating in general what a nightmare it is in l .A and all that stuff and in the conversation of her trying to get me to join a dating app, I convinced her to rejoin Tinder.

[18] What?

[19] It was the most hilarious turn.

[20] It was like she was trying to convince me. And as she was convincing me, I'm like, well, then why don't you do it?

[21] And then she's like, I don't know.

[22] I just, I don't know.

[23] You know what, you're right.

[24] I should sign up again.

[25] It was hilarious.

[26] You're good.

[27] You're just like, I'm going to turn this motherfucker.

[28] That's right.

[29] Are you going to sign up for any of them?

[30] No. You're going to meet someone at a fucking gas station pumping gas.

[31] That's why I keep hanging out at gas station.

[32] You got to get a nice car.

[33] The problem is that I, my arms are always crossed, but I'm getting gas.

[34] So I put out negative.

[35] You're more interesting.

[36] You don't want superficial shit.

[37] Thank you.

[38] None of us still.

[39] Also, I just don't, I wouldn't know how to pick people based on their picture because I don't trust that.

[40] Oh, yeah.

[41] I'm good.

[42] I'll take friends' phones and be like, yes, yes.

[43] Or like, read their thing.

[44] I don't know, because it doesn't matter to me. There's no fucking stakes in my fucking game.

[45] I don't get to shit.

[46] I was actually doing it for Lizzie for a little while, but it's that thing where then you start seeing what other people's tastes are, which is really funny, where I'm like, oh, I would have said yes to that.

[47] Lizzie's like, oh, no. Yeah.

[48] This is a murder podcast, by the way.

[49] This is called Karen's Diary.

[50] That's how we start.

[51] This is called, I don't know.

[52] This is called, did you hear this interesting true crime based?

[53] piece of news, which lots of people tweeted to me on Twitter, there's a woman named Agnes Gund, who is basically a crazy rich philanthropist.

[54] She sold a Liechtenstein worth $165 million and donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically with the eye to reduce mass incarceration in this country.

[55] Oh my God.

[56] And a lot of people sent it to us on Twitter saying there are some good billionaires out there and also like some finally some positive news that's great which I thought was very cool I just found a friend of mine a friend like someone she knows is going a dad he's like sober but years and years ago he well he's going to prison for eight years for having some pot on him oh now in Florida though oh yeah shit which is just like so heartbreaking he His whole family is not going to have his income.

[57] His kids are going to grow up without him.

[58] Whatever he could do to be a productive member society is fucked.

[59] Like, it just doesn't make any fucking sense to me. It's so crazy.

[60] That's some old leftover.

[61] Those laws are now seeming like blue laws.

[62] They're just so old.

[63] What's a blue law?

[64] Blue laws are like those laws that were in.

[65] I don't know if they were specifically New England, but it was like, it's like you can't drink on a Sunday in this county.

[66] All that old shit that's like they're just still on the books because no one took them off.

[67] You can't spit because the 1919 Spanish flu.

[68] People would walk in it and track it into their house.

[69] Exactly right.

[70] But I mean, it should still be illegal.

[71] Yeah.

[72] That would be nice.

[73] Yeah.

[74] Hey.

[75] Okay.

[76] We were going to talk about Mommy Dead and Dearest finally because we've been promising it.

[77] Yeah.

[78] Wait.

[79] Do you have any other short pieces of business before we get into that discussion?

[80] Business, business.

[81] Oh, the video of Kayla Brown.

[82] when she was discovered on Todd Kolop's, you know, farm or whatever.

[83] Remember when a couple months ago there was that, they found this woman chained up in a storage container, right?

[84] Yeah.

[85] Someone was like, they have video of them opening it, getting to her.

[86] And I was like, I can't watch this because I pictured her, like, I pictured the end of Texas Chansaw Massacre.

[87] Yeah.

[88] or she's screaming and insane.

[89] Yep.

[90] And it was nothing like that and it was almost worse.

[91] I went to watch it.

[92] I was going to watch it with the sound off because I knew that part would be bad.

[93] And the first shot is she's fully dressed.

[94] She's got a chain around her neck, right?

[95] Yeah.

[96] There's a color around her deck and then a chain.

[97] She's like laying on a mattress.

[98] Shitty mattress.

[99] But it looked so weird.

[100] She looked like she was kind of frozen.

[101] Like she was.

[102] so scared and how long she'd been in there four months uh i i'm not sure and had seen before she went in her boyfriend shot shot and killed yeah um and had probably been attacked repeatedly yes uh and the second it started i was like no i'm not watching this i just what for like i'm glad she's rescued that's great i want her to get better i want yeah her to be strong all positive vibes i don't need to watch that moment of horror i felt bad but i but i did I feel bad watching it, but I watch it.

[103] And I think what was so interesting to me is how calm she was.

[104] And it kind of hit home of that thing of everyone always saying, you don't know what you're going to be like in, um, what is it?

[105] Like a crisis.

[106] So they're like, whenever someone gets killed and they're like, he acted like so calm.

[107] And it's like you don't ever know what it's going to be like for someone.

[108] And this was like the perfect or like a traumatic event.

[109] This was the perfect example of that to me. And she was like immediately like, I've been locked up in here by Todd Colette for this many months.

[110] He shot and killed my boyfriend.

[111] Like she was just like, here's the information in case I can't give it to you later.

[112] Yes.

[113] It was.

[114] Yeah.

[115] It was amazing.

[116] I also think I read in an article that the cop said to her, like something like, where's your buddy or do you know where your buddy is, which is her boyfriend, who was murdered, which I just hated that.

[117] I don't know why.

[118] And maybe the phrasing sounded differently.

[119] and I don't.

[120] I'm just judging the written word.

[121] But I just hated that.

[122] It's like, she's not a child.

[123] It's not his, her buddy.

[124] It's not a buddy system.

[125] Yeah.

[126] Over here.

[127] But it's probably just him trying to be like, I'm your friend.

[128] Distancing.

[129] Everything's okay.

[130] Yeah, like low key.

[131] I like to be judgy.

[132] Let's see.

[133] Before we get into that, I wanted to plug the animating podcasts, Twitter, which I think is a new Twitter because I don't have a lot of followers yet.

[134] Yes.

[135] that they, I just, they go to animating podcasts on Twitter.

[136] There's one of our podcast, short little clip that just brought me so much joy and happiness.

[137] It's so hilarious.

[138] It's so hilarious.

[139] It's amazingly done for, especially as fast as we talk and as, like, talking over, like, kind of overlapped.

[140] Yeah.

[141] Where that could not have been easy.

[142] Even like they had my, I went, mm. Yes.

[143] I just made a noise.

[144] and it was this perfect, it's just this hilarious cartoon, Stevens in it, Narwhals are in it, spoiler alert.

[145] It's just like they took a clip from our podcast of us speaking and made it animated.

[146] It was very exciting.

[147] It was a real honor, but there's also just like kind of cool.

[148] So talented.

[149] And also I liked that they, it started me talking to you and pointing at you, which is so me. How do they know?

[150] I don't know.

[151] And it looked just like us.

[152] It did.

[153] And Stephen.

[154] Oh my god, when it panned over to Stephen I laughed out loud It was such a great job So great job animating podcast They do it for other podcasts Go on to their feed It's very cool And thank you guys for picking us Yes Stephen had a kitten named after him Congratulations I think I cried a little bit They found him in the backyard Right I couldn't think of a higher Yeah I couldn't think of like I don't know It's a huge compliment Yeah I mean it just I don't, yeah, it just means a lot.

[155] It's really cool.

[156] So the kitten's name is Stephen Ray Morris?

[157] The kitten's name is...

[158] Kitty Ray Morris.

[159] But they're calling it Morris, which I just think is so perfect.

[160] That's very cute.

[161] Kitty Ray Morris.

[162] It's just so cute.

[163] It's a little tiny and...

[164] He's a little baby.

[165] What color?

[166] It's like a tabby, not you Elvis.

[167] I know.

[168] It's like a tabby, like a striped, like brown and gray.

[169] Oh.

[170] It's just so little.

[171] It kind of looks like my cat growing up.

[172] That's awesome.

[173] Congratulations.

[174] Yeah, congratulations.

[175] That means we don't have to pay you this month, right?

[176] Yep.

[177] Because a cat got...

[178] That's right.

[179] You got cat payments.

[180] Going towards the cat.

[181] Yeah, it's going towards the cat.

[182] Um, my, mom.

[183] Okay, mommy, dead and dearest.

[184] Man, people have been asking and asking for us to, please talk about it.

[185] And today, on my, uh, car ride over, somebody, I checked my Twitter and somebody was like, are you guys ever going to talk about it?

[186] And in all caps.

[187] Oh, no, they said, have you guys?

[188] So I bet they were asking a very polite way of like, did I miss it?

[189] have you guys talked about this yet and just in all caps I wrote not yet let's never talk about it again let's bring it up every time let's move on right now and just never we'll bring it up every episode so rude it's time it's finally time it's here it is mommy dead and dearest it was good moving on I finally I finally watched it I was the I was the one hanging us up because I didn't watch it for so long and I just watched it like three hours ago really yeah nice I caught up um it's i loved it it's so good it was amazing and it's funny because i thought after watching since i watched the keepers first i was like well that's like a netflix series and it's this you know eight part thing and whatever uh i thought it was really well done and also i am now so fascinated with gypsy i it's like i don't the when they were talking about the fact that she was raised by this woman manipulator and so that's all she knows can you imagine so like her kind of taught like i already am not the huggest fan of the baby voice and that kind of like the giggly baby voice which she was forced to yeah like her mother forced her to have that personality and to have that kind of like i'm just a little baby well i'm not definitely and you'll vouch for this not a psychologist okay but wait are you a psychiatrist though yeah you want some pills yeah adderall all around Um, but I heard, you know, from someone a long time ago that when, when older adults, women have that baby voice, it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never got past it.

[190] Yeah.

[191] So they sound the same as they did back then.

[192] Right.

[193] That sounds cool, right?

[194] Yes.

[195] Let's say, say it's real.

[196] Well, I've heard the same thing.

[197] Okay.

[198] Uh, yeah, man. The, the, she's being interviewed from prison.

[199] Yeah.

[200] It's just crazy.

[201] I can't imagine what her inner life is like.

[202] And I wanted to be mad at that dad so bad, but like...

[203] The dad and a stepmom.

[204] But I, but it, you, like, you're only seeing it through, I feel like if the mom was still alive and she was putting in her two cents, you'd be like, oh yeah, I would have moved seven states away.

[205] Yeah.

[206] Even the little clips that they had of her were frightening.

[207] Yeah.

[208] Like, she is a frightening, uh, creepy woman.

[209] But, like, okay, the dad, while hot, wasn't very smart.

[210] So I feel like he was just manipulated in con too, clearly.

[211] For sure.

[212] Even his, her parents were like, yeah, we hadn't, like, they were conned.

[213] Yes.

[214] Well, and also when it's that, um, you know that she is either, she has some personality disorder.

[215] I won't.

[216] I won't.

[217] Even though all I want to do is say which one it is.

[218] I won't.

[219] Well, well, I mean, if you have Munchausen's by proxy, would, which means you're willing to hurt your child to get attention.

[220] Sociopath.

[221] You're a sociopath, right.

[222] Bing, ding, ding, ding, ding, that's the one I know.

[223] But also, maybe even a psychopath.

[224] Yeah.

[225] Somebody tweeted and said, Psychopaths can't feel anxiety, which would, did you see that?

[226] That was so cool.

[227] Yes, because, so they never get nervous.

[228] So no matter what they do or who they're lying to or what they're doing, they will never have that, like, you'll never see the twitch in their eye, of like, uh -uh.

[229] Or then like burst out into rate, like, because anxiety is nervousness.

[230] Yeah.

[231] And, uh, and anticipation of a situation or anticipation of something happening.

[232] Yeah.

[233] So thank God.

[234] I'm clearly not a fucking sociopath.

[235] What is it?

[236] Psychopath.

[237] Yes.

[238] We know you're, at least we know you're not a psychopath.

[239] I'm clearly, clearly based on my pharmaceutical history.

[240] Uh, clearly not a psychopath.

[241] But I mean, yeah, the idea, because that.

[242] But like going through, because I kept going when they would say, and then she had this surgery.

[243] It's like, how the fuck did it get to the point where she's having surgery?

[244] Dude, those doctors, man, those, I mean, I don't know, I know that they moved around a lot of doctors once they got suspicious of it.

[245] And she's so manipulative.

[246] And they wanted to believe her.

[247] Why would you not believe her?

[248] A sick child.

[249] But I feel like the first, I feel like always in a, in a pediatrician's mind should be, this could possibly be, it has to be there.

[250] Everyone knows what it is.

[251] but she's inducing with medicine right so she's like oh she has this thing then she's giving her medicine that's giving her the reaction that's making her clearly this woman is smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some ways i mean when they open the medicine cabinet oh no the medicine closet closet also the pictures around the house from around the house where there's just like brand new disney slippers everywhere where it's like disney thing was creepy as fuck everything's pink and Disney and creepy, and so she's kind of a hoarder.

[252] She's kind of like this, like, put on these slippers.

[253] It's just, yeah, it's the creepiest, weirdest.

[254] And then did you see there was a girl on Twitter who was, who, like, tagged us and was like, I just realized that I have a photo of them, with them.

[255] It's one of the, it's a girl who listens.

[256] She, like, worked for Ronald McDonald's house or something.

[257] Oh, that's right.

[258] And she's in a photo, like a photo op with them.

[259] Yes.

[260] Smiling.

[261] Yes.

[262] Honey, you win.

[263] Oh, you win.

[264] won that.

[265] And also she thinks she has her arm around an eight year old and the girl's fucking 18.

[266] That part of it.

[267] Also because Gypsy's eyes are like a little close together and a little crossed.

[268] And her teeth like stuck straight out, which I'm sure is from being poisoned all her life.

[269] They said like leukemia medication.

[270] We'll fuck like make your teeth fall out of your fucking head.

[271] So she kind of has the look about her where it's like something could be wrong.

[272] And then what mother brings her baby in and is like you know.

[273] Oh.

[274] Stephen Has it?

[275] Shoot up.

[276] What's her name?

[277] Let's give her.

[278] Brianne is the one who sent us the picture.

[279] Thank you, Brian.

[280] It's amazing.

[281] Also, when you look at this mother, you look at a person who used to, like, in the beginning when they have her in the pageant.

[282] She was like, remember, she was Miss River Queen or something?

[283] Yeah, that was weird to me, too, where it's like she clearly gave a big shit about the way she looked.

[284] Yes.

[285] And it's almost like she had this other project now.

[286] And so she kind of let it go.

[287] Yes, she was living vicariously through her.

[288] daughter's illness.

[289] So she was eliciting that exact, like, she wanted pity, sympathy.

[290] She wanted like an emotional connection, but she didn't believe she could have it the way she looked and on her own merit.

[291] Brian, if it's cool with you, we're going to post this on Instagram.

[292] Stephen will you post this on Instagram because you know I fucking never will?

[293] Thank you.

[294] It's such a good picture.

[295] The other show that I want to talk about, I don't know if you watched it, but I randomly watched it and you have to and everyone has, especially if you're into fucking sociopaths, which who isn't?

[296] The Bernie Madoff documentary with fucking Robert De Niro's Bernie Madoff.

[297] It is so good.

[298] Oh, okay.

[299] I know.

[300] I'm obsessed with the Bernie Madoff case anyways, and I know it's not murder and all this shit, but he's a sociopath.

[301] Yes.

[302] And so it's really interesting the way they kind of show, oh, it's just such a tragic story.

[303] He might even be a psychopath too.

[304] Yeah.

[305] And yeah, it's so good.

[306] Oh, and then it's, um, what's her beautiful face as the wife?

[307] what's her name um Michelle Pfeiffer oh yeah she's great oh my god it's it's really fucking good everyone oh okay cool it's really fucking good cool um that's it for me that's it for me let's get out of here bye bye my favorite murder shirts dot com I don't know uh how are you I'm good Oh, we have Australia.

[308] We're going to Australia and New Zealand.

[309] Go to my favorite murder .com slash live and we're playing it.

[310] We're playing?

[311] Do we play?

[312] We're going to mean Australia and New Zealand.

[313] We're coming down to see you down there.

[314] So excited.

[315] Get your, throw something on the Barbie for me that is not shrimp.

[316] Oh, right.

[317] You hate shrimp.

[318] All seafood.

[319] Grill.

[320] Do they grill a lot there?

[321] Are we making, do they hate us now?

[322] I think the Barbie is the grill.

[323] Right.

[324] So, yes.

[325] It seems like that's a thing of theirs.

[326] Okay.

[327] They're like very beachy.

[328] I'm going to eat so much food when we go there.

[329] All right.

[330] Okay.

[331] Oh, yeah.

[332] Who goes?

[333] Should we, should we talk about murder?

[334] Yeah, let's do it.

[335] Okay.

[336] Me, Stephen?

[337] It's all you.

[338] All right.

[339] Karen.

[340] You love cults.

[341] Oh, fuck.

[342] Yes or no. Yes or now.

[343] Should I lean all the way back and stick my feet up in there and just listen up because this is my favorite topic?

[344] Get comfy, girl.

[345] Mm -hmm.

[346] actually I found yeah night night Karen Karen leaping you found what I I was one cult that I wanted to do and then I don't know why I never did it but then I was just like what or other because I'm not a big cult I mean I love Jamestown obviously Jonestown James Town clearly I'm a big fan I love James Town James Town James Town that's actually a really nice little like retreat it's a camp for children with issues I believe Jamestown is like the first settlement in the colonies.

[347] Right.

[348] But I definitely could be wrong because I can't remember high school at all.

[349] So I wasn't in no way laughing at you for that part.

[350] But I do love, I love the old joke of I'm a huge fan of this and then say the different thing.

[351] Always go with that.

[352] I'm happy.

[353] I love it.

[354] Listen, when I get shit wrong, I think it's hilarious.

[355] Jones Town is, I love it to.

[356] obviously because it came out of San Francisco and it's like when it when it can be I mean that's as a hometown it's just so epic just the amount of people who actually killed themselves is epic like I looked up heaven's gate which I thought was really fascinating that's a good one um it's just fucking cool heaven's gate is so crazy too because it's so sinister and yet dull that's the weirdest part about it it's like we think we're going to go to a planet or a spaceship or whatever Um, we like computers and we want to be androgynous and then we kill ourselves the end.

[357] There's no blood.

[358] There's no. I think they killed some people.

[359] Heaven's Gate.

[360] Yeah, who like left.

[361] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[362] Absolutely.

[363] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[364] Exactly.

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[379] Goodbye.

[380] Hey, this is exciting.

[381] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[382] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[383] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[384] Who killed Saz?

[385] And were they really after Charles?

[386] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[387] This season, murder hits close to home.

[388] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[389] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[390] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[391] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[392] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Long Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[393] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[394] Goodbye.

[395] The thing.

[396] Oh, yeah?

[397] Yeah, I'll have to do it sometime.

[398] I really want to do Waco because I think it's way more complicated.

[399] I just, I kind of don't want to touch it because it's, I think it's pretty fucking inflammatory.

[400] Yeah, there's like, no, it is.

[401] You're right, because I think the story everybody got initially, it was like, these lunatics and it was like...

[402] They had their place on fire and it's like, I don't think they're dead.

[403] Yeah, there was children in there.

[404] There was children in there.

[405] You weren't letting them come out.

[406] Yeah, there's a lot to it.

[407] I think, didn't last podcast on the left do Awako?

[408] I'm sure they did.

[409] I'm sure they did it beautifully.

[410] Okay.

[411] Anyhow.

[412] This is the Fall Rivers cult murder.

[413] Ooh.

[414] Ooh, had never heard of it.

[415] Mm -mm.

[416] Never heard of it.

[417] Okay.

[418] An hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers, Massachusetts.

[419] Got that one right.

[420] In the 1970s, there was a crazy fucking recession.

[421] They had the gas shortage.

[422] You had a wait in line.

[423] What was it?

[424] You could only get gas on certain days depending on when your license plate ended and whatever number.

[425] So it was like odd days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday.

[426] I mean, odd numbers, Monday, whatever.

[427] I remember waiting in line with my dad at the, I believe it is now a shell on Petaluma Boulevard south.

[428] What was it?

[429] Gas and go or something?

[430] It was a something good um i can't i can't remember what it was but it was like we were out in this like out in the different street waiting yeah to get into the gas station i've done that at costco before but not yeah think of that but everyone's broken out of a job yes yes pre -cosco there's the idea of even buying wholesale was like inane yeah everyone was broke yeah so So 1970s Fall River Rivers is hit super fucking hard.

[431] Factory is closed, buildings abandoned, all that stuff.

[432] So like Main Street is empty, which just led to a crazy, seedy underground of drugs and sex working to flourish.

[433] Yeah.

[434] So the first victim of the Fall River murders.

[435] Stephen, can you look up of its Fall River or Fall Rivers?

[436] I don't want to get punched in the face for this.

[437] Don't edit this out either.

[438] I just want everyone to know that I'm crossing my eyes.

[439] eyes and dotting my teas.

[440] I don't want to get punched in the face.

[441] Things have gotten kind of intense over here.

[442] I know.

[443] My favorite murder, we've been threatened because we don't know state abbreviations.

[444] Is there an S or is there not an S?

[445] The Worcester people have come after us.

[446] Go ahead.

[447] There's no S. It's Fall River.

[448] Okay.

[449] So everyone calm down.

[450] Got this right, because I've written it both ways.

[451] Okay, the first victim of the Fall River murders, Wait, Fall Rivers or Falls River?

[452] Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[453] Fuck.

[454] You know what I'm going to say both ways?

[455] No. Falls Rivers, murders.

[456] It gets sad now, so let's...

[457] Okay, sorry.

[458] Be cool.

[459] 17 -year -old runaway, Doreen Lavec.

[460] She had escaped her new Bedford foster home, and she got out of there and went to Fall River and turned to sex work to survive.

[461] 17 years old.

[462] Oh, Jesus.

[463] And also fucking every spring.

[464] hear about foster homes obviously they're good foster parents out there and all yeah but but man oh man like i have a friend who grew up in several foster homes and it's just like one horrible story after the other it's just that thing of like well can you imagine if if working on the street and sex work is the better alternative than living with your foster family yeah that's like that you can imagine what that must be like horrible not that there aren't great foster parents out there in fact i want to be one day but not in the 70s there wasn't okay she was so her body is found on October 13th 1979 under the bleachers at the local high school yeah her wrists have been bound with fishing line and she had been stabbed in the head several times and her face had been beaten so bad that she was unrecognizable then a month after she had been found a man named Andy Maltius goes to the Fall River Police Station.

[465] He wants to file a missing person's report for his girlfriend.

[466] Uh -huh.

[467] They won't do it.

[468] Uh -huh.

[469] There's a twist.

[470] Okay.

[471] A 22 -year -old sex worker, that's who she is, Barbara Raposa.

[472] He tells her that he's scared for her safety, and then he starts to randomly mumble something about a satanic cult.

[473] And he says he has information relating to the other murder of Doreen Lavec.

[474] Whoa.

[475] So he is a very mentally unstable creep.

[476] He's a pedophile, a sex sadist, and a violent rapist.

[477] And when he's questioned by the police, he told them that there was a satanic cult operating within the Fall River area and the sex worker community.

[478] So that whole community of drug addicts and sex workers.

[479] Jesus Christ.

[480] are fucking Satanist.

[481] And this is during the satanic panic.

[482] Remember that?

[483] Yeah.

[484] Which is like the stupidest thing.

[485] But then there were Satanists.

[486] Who knew?

[487] Well, also, it's a violent rapist reporting.

[488] Yeah.

[489] How bad does it have to be once again?

[490] That's just crazy where it's like, I'm the worst person and I'm going to go to the police because this is this bad.

[491] I'm so worried about my girlfriend.

[492] Oh.

[493] And I, yeah.

[494] So, okay.

[495] Then Karen Marsden.

[496] She's a 20 -year -old single mother.

[497] She's a drug addict, teenage runaway.

[498] It was a teenage runaway.

[499] She's also working as a sex worker.

[500] She comes forward because she's afraid for her life.

[501] She tells the police that the local pimp, Carl Drew, was the ringleader of this satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders, the murder, excuse me. She felt that she knew too much and was too inside the close -knit circle of the satanic group to remain safe.

[502] So she's fucking terrified.

[503] the police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but she denied it.

[504] She didn't want it.

[505] Uh -oh.

[506] Who knows why?

[507] I mean, I'm sure.

[508] She doesn't trust the cops.

[509] And she's a drug addict.

[510] You don't make the best fucking decisions when you're on drugs.

[511] And also, if you're trying to do drugs, you don't want a cop around him protecting you.

[512] Right.

[513] So you're like, I just need to get high.

[514] Yeah.

[515] Yeah.

[516] Okay.

[517] So, Drew, let's talk about Carl Drew, the woman, the man that she fingered for the murder.

[518] listen look listen you guys said it I didn't you guys are gross Steven play back that tape this is a murder podcast I know please I know it all right Carl Drew 25 years old he's from New Hampshire he'd been raised on a small farm and the story is that he had a childhood of hard labor and physical abuse he told a story later of his alcoholic father tying a rope around his ankles and lowering him down a well to remove cluster of dead rats oh no yeah you come face to face with that shit what and also we'll fucking leave them there you know what they be in the well they'll just what's it called one things they'll degrade yeah totally leave them in the well so how about you pour some goddamn battery acid down that well and your kid yeah well in addition he lived on the farm so he was taught to butcher livestock and he got the job of cleaning the farm slaughter pit again send that kid in there.

[519] Dang.

[520] He had a wade through rotting carcasses in order to separate the hides and hooves for rendering, which you know, all of that just smelled so horrific.

[521] I mean, and you would smell like that for days.

[522] Well, this is like if I ever went with Paltrow and I was like, it was hard for me too.

[523] I made bone broth recently.

[524] Oh, no. Stephen, cut that out.

[525] My whole house smelled.

[526] Well, you have to, you have to boil the marrow bones for like 48 hours.

[527] and it just gets the smell that is so horrific and not good.

[528] Yeah.

[529] Did that smell, like, linger?

[530] Oh, yeah.

[531] Yeah.

[532] So then when I ever, like, I can't drink it now because it's so disgusting.

[533] Listen, you have to have somebody else make your bone broth.

[534] You buy it.

[535] I know it's expensive.

[536] Yeah.

[537] Gwyneth Paltrow.

[538] But you guys, look it up.

[539] You have gut issues.

[540] Bone broth.

[541] It's really good for you.

[542] Anyways.

[543] Ba -ba -ba -ba -ba -where was I. At 14, he runs away.

[544] To Fall River, he eventually becomes a pimp, and he's a Satanist, and he uses Satanism to terrify the sex workers who worked for him.

[545] Yeah.

[546] He had a felony record, convictions for assault, weapons, possession, and armed robbery.

[547] So he's a real great dude.

[548] He claims later to be the son of Satan.

[549] Okay.

[550] Which, like, who knows?

[551] Did he, did Satan have kids?

[552] Oh, I wonder.

[553] Yeah, I do too.

[554] Like, did they change, did Satan change diapers?

[555] I mean.

[556] I bet he wasn't a good father was he like she woke the wife woke up and he was like it's your turn it's your turn and he's like no yeah I'm Satan fucking Satan yeah I have to do it again yeah the son of Satan yeah okay like come on yeah um I mean most people claim to be Satan right isn't that more of the thing yeah okay it doesn't matter yeah he makes the sex workers participate in his animal sacrifices and tells them that the same thing would happen to them if they disobeyed him.

[557] So he wasn't one of those nice pimps that everyone talks about.

[558] Or nice Satanus.

[559] Or nice Satanus.

[560] There are nice ones.

[561] I mean, they do seem Satanus, that's fine.

[562] I mean, whatever.

[563] Yeah.

[564] They're chilled out.

[565] Yeah.

[566] It seems just like a tool to control people.

[567] It's just using fear.

[568] Like, this is a thing you're scared of.

[569] Yeah.

[570] I'll use this symbol.

[571] Yeah.

[572] And it'll control your behavior.

[573] And I'm on all the meth, all the fucking, like, Fall River meth, which is probably not.

[574] No, that's the good stuff.

[575] Yeah, no offense to them.

[576] But, um, so the Fall River cult, they had like maybe up to 10 members.

[577] They're all associated with the Fall River sex trade.

[578] So between 1979 and 1980, they held a bunch of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy.

[579] And during the seances, uh, this guy, Carl Drew, which.

[580] would speak in a different voice and in different languages.

[581] And everyone who had been there was like, no, he, it wasn't gibberish.

[582] He was speaking in another language.

[583] Wow.

[584] Which is like, all right.

[585] Did he know Spanish?

[586] Yeah.

[587] Had he gotten the Rosetta Stone?

[588] CD?

[589] I know Pig Latin.

[590] That doesn't mean I'm speaking in another language.

[591] And we, you and I speak in a different voice whenever we do fucking ads.

[592] That's right.

[593] So you can do lots of voices.

[594] I'm not, I'm color me not impressed with this.

[595] Carl?

[596] Carl.

[597] Carl, you fucking nerd.

[598] Carl.

[599] He's still alive, so let's not.

[600] Whoops.

[601] Stephen, I edit that out for sure.

[602] Don't.

[603] Edit this whole story out.

[604] I forgot to mention he's still alive.

[605] Okay.

[606] First, the rituals involved sex and drugs, but then things took a turn when he was like, human sacrifice time.

[607] Oh, no. No. Okay, the second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's 22, another known sex worker.

[608] Her body's discovered by, oh, here's horrible.

[609] a man is out walking his dog in the forest it's a beagle picture it yes uh he his dog starts sniffing around and like starts to kind of chomp on something and he thinks it's just an animal because she was so unrecognizable that he didn't realize it was a human was the full body or just a part i think it was a full body oh man like in but in the bushes you know what i mean yes so that poor dog and that poor man do you think that he ever let the dog lick him on the face again.

[610] I think he probably put that dog down.

[611] Yeah.

[612] Once I get a taste.

[613] It's so dark.

[614] I know.

[615] But it really is not to be hacky and say the same thing we say all the time, but it's like, what is?

[616] I understand there's a benefit of going into the forest if you have a large group and you're there to really hike it up and be a team or whatever.

[617] Walking alone with your dog in the forest, I feel like there's only a couple things that can happen to you and they're bad.

[618] Like your dog, doesn't care if it's on the forest or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb right why it's like not that your dog's more stoked when he goes into the why are you and then at the same time i have to be totally honest and say i am jealous of that guy because because he gets to do that oh because just that moment must have been horrifying and like just it's just a seminal moment it's a watershed moment i wonder i wonder i don't ever want to know i wonder here's what i wonder are seminal and watershed synonyms or did I just say two different things.

[619] Seminole is like, yeah, no, but they're, yeah, they're like explaining a thing.

[620] A defining moment.

[621] Right.

[622] You just said it in better words than defining.

[623] Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it, whatever my brain off or something.

[624] He sounded like a phephahsaurus.

[625] Jesus, I can't say thesaurus.

[626] Thank you.

[627] You're welcome.

[628] Um, okay, she had been, so Barbara Raposa, she's been badly, okay, she's got her hands, bound she's face down she's on a flat stone that resembles an altar uh -huh she had been so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed there was stab wounds to her head again um and yeah so then on february 1980 the cult's third victim was killed this is 22 year old who you may remember her name Karen Marston oh no woman who had gone in because she was afraid so oh no oh no No, I'm sorry, I'd immediately assumed it was the missing woman, but this is the one who fucking showed up herself.

[629] Yeah, the one who went in.

[630] She's the 20 -year -old single mother, drug addict, and she feared for her life.

[631] She's the one who came in and said no thank you to victims' protection.

[632] So she is 20, she's the one who comes forward.

[633] So she had been present, it turns out, at that first murder of Doreen Lavec.

[634] So she had been there.

[635] So that's how she was, why she was afraid.

[636] Yeah.

[637] And it terrified her so much that that's why she went to the police.

[638] And Carl, what's his last name?

[639] Drew found out about it.

[640] Yeah.

[641] So her head was beaten in with a rock.

[642] Then, according to the story, Drew, then broke her neck with his bare hands.

[643] And according to someone else who had been there, it was a cult devotee devotee.

[644] She, devotee, devotee, devouti, she was devoted.

[645] And sex worker, she's 17 -year -old Robin Murphy, and she was there.

[646] And according to her, Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit Karen's throat.

[647] Whoa.

[648] So then he cut an X into Karen's chest.

[649] Do you want me to say her last name instead of Karen?

[650] No, that's fine.

[651] Okay.

[652] And he used the blood to put an X on this Robin Murphy's forehead.

[653] Then they played around with this head.

[654] Ugh.

[655] Drugs, drugs, drugs.

[656] That's all I can think.

[657] Can you imagine not even just the detachment of being able to kill someone, but then to have a human head in front of you and not, like, I feel like I would pass the fuck out seeing that.

[658] Of course you would.

[659] You would be in total shock.

[660] I mean, you would be, it's horrifying.

[661] clearly, like, if I see someone get hurt, I am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is and I see it and I can identify with it.

[662] So, like, you're really underlining this point that you're not a sociopath.

[663] So I'm a really good, yawn right now.

[664] Yon.

[665] I'll fucking yawn too.

[666] See?

[667] In case you're a new listener, that's the test of a sociopath.

[668] If you yawn and the person doesn't yawn too, then they don't have empathy for you.

[669] It's just this automatic response.

[670] No, I mean, but I understand what you're saying.

[671] It's just so gross, even that we're talking about it, much less to witness it, be a part of it, take part in it.

[672] It just defies logic.

[673] And the fact that not only is there one person who does it, but you'll know someone else who's cool with it, too.

[674] Like, the fact that there can be two people, because I feel like that would be one in a million people.

[675] Yeah.

[676] But I guess they all live in Fall River.

[677] Dude, dude, do, do.

[678] Okay.

[679] So only...

[680] Oh, wait.

[681] A telegram just arrived.

[682] It's everyone who lives in Fault River.

[683] They're super pissed at us.

[684] They're suing us for defamation.

[685] They said Twitter's not fast enough.

[686] We needed to let you know how livid we are.

[687] It's actually a clown and it's a singing telegram.

[688] But he's got a bloody X on his head.

[689] Yeah.

[690] Don't worry about it.

[691] So only her school was ever found.

[692] And the reason they found it is because she had had x -rays of her head, which I'm like, they said she had sinus issues.

[693] Oh, so there was something to compare it.

[694] Like they knew who it was.

[695] Yeah.

[696] Got it.

[697] Which is crazy.

[698] So finally, a break comes in the case.

[699] They, uh, the police had wiretapped the phone hoping that they would find Carl Drew speaking about the murders, but it's not him.

[700] It's the 17 -year -old girlfriend, Robin Murphy.

[701] And she is a sex worker and aspiring pimp.

[702] So she's talking.

[703] Um, and it turns out that, that she was saying that 25 year old Drew was not the ringleader but that she was, that 17 -year -old Robin Murphy is.

[704] Huh.

[705] Robin Murphy contacts police, and she offers to testify against Andy Maltius, remember the guy he went in because he was worried about his girlfriend, yeah, as a witness to the murder of his girlfriend.

[706] So he killed his girlfriend and then went looking for her, is her story.

[707] Oh, like, so it was a setup, basically.

[708] He was trying to make himself look innocent.

[709] Maybe, unless Robin's lying.

[710] Okay.

[711] She also claimed to be present for the Doreen.

[712] Levec murder and she agreed to turn state's evidence in that case.

[713] She was like, I'll tell you everything.

[714] In exchange, she gets a deal where she's placed in protective custody and she gets immunity in both murders.

[715] They didn't do that.

[716] They didn't do that.

[717] They didn't do that.

[718] And yeah.

[719] And they don't know if she was involved.

[720] Yeah.

[721] I mean, that seems like a dream.

[722] Like, that's basically her going, here's what I wish I could have.

[723] And they're like, granted.

[724] Yeah.

[725] So the story she gave police was that Andy Montius killed his girlfriend, Barbara Raposa, because he found out that she'd been cheating on him with another man. So he goes to trial first and based mostly on the testimony of Robin Murphy in January, 1981, he's convicted of the first degree murder of Barbara Raposa, given a life sentence without the possibility of parole.

[726] And he's later considered to be a suspect in a few other.

[727] installed area rapes, dating back to the early 70s, but no additional charges are ever brought against him.

[728] He, and then later, he's found to be clinically insane, but they still didn't overturn the verdict or give him a new trial or anything like that, but he ended up dying of cancer in 1998.

[729] Wow.

[730] In prison.

[731] Wow.

[732] So then Robin is allowed to plead to the lesser charge of second degree murder in exchange for her testimony against everyone, and they keep the immunity deal that she had going, and she received no additional charges in connection with either of the other two murders.

[733] So she's only getting charged with the last murder of Karen.

[734] So basically it was like whoever runs forward first and says, I will like snitch on everybody else is the person who gets the deal.

[735] I think so.

[736] And like I'll hear about plea deals where they're like, they agree that, you know, the attorneys, whatever, I don't know, they agree to the terms of taking a plea.

[737] only if the information matches up.

[738] Yeah.

[739] So if they end up, they would agree to them if this thing is the case, is this thing is true, which we should totally have a guy back on and ask him about.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Because that seems much more, you know, what's the word?

[742] Makes much more sense than just being like, okay, anything you say.

[743] No, no, I think, isn't that always the rule?

[744] The thing that you say has to then basically solve the crime and be the thing that convicts the person.

[745] Right.

[746] Yeah.

[747] I'm pretty sure that, yeah, we should definitely have a guy back.

[748] Or like saying that their involvement is, is this, that has to be true.

[749] You know what I mean?

[750] Like, I'll testify.

[751] Here is my involvement.

[752] But if later it turns out that that involvement isn't true, that you lied about it, I don't know.

[753] What's that guy?

[754] No, it wouldn't be that because then they would be planning for the person to lie, which they could find anything to.

[755] Yeah.

[756] Yeah.

[757] No, that makes sense.

[758] Okay.

[759] I mean, what a boring part of a show where we're like, we don't know anything about the law, but let's say what we feel.

[760] Definitely.

[761] Let's talk about it.

[762] It's me going, I don't think it's that, but not based on anything other than my, just my gut.

[763] I didn't go to law school, but I bet there's a really simple explanation to this.

[764] Let's keep talking about it.

[765] Listen, I'm a psychiatrist.

[766] I'm a lawyer.

[767] And a psychologist.

[768] I'm a psychologist.

[769] It's great.

[770] I'm a cat.

[771] I'm also a cat.

[772] Do, do, do, do, do.

[773] Okay.

[774] So this chick.

[775] Murphy received her name, what was her name again, Robin Murphy's, she received a life sentence with the possibility of parole.

[776] She spends 24 years in jail in prison and then she's released on June 10th, 2004.

[777] But thank God she violated her parole and she goes to prison seven years later.

[778] She's currently serving her time in a maximum security prison in Massachusetts and in 84 she recants the entire story.

[779] She says none of it is true.

[780] She's trying to get a new trial.

[781] It doesn't happen.

[782] She's eligible for parole in March 2017, which if you'll look at your calendar was like two months ago.

[783] And they're reviewing it right now.

[784] Hold on.

[785] So in saying that the whole story is not true is what she's saying that the satanic cult part's not true?

[786] Or she's saying that her part in the murder isn't true?

[787] I think what she's saying is that the people she is fingering for the crime didn't actually do it.

[788] Wow.

[789] She doesn't.

[790] It's not true.

[791] Got it.

[792] I don't.

[793] I don't know exactly if she gave an alternative story, I couldn't find anything on that.

[794] So Carl Davis, who's the, who's a different Carl, who's involved with the slaughter, with the murder of Karen Marsden, he doesn't ever stand trial for it.

[795] In the following year, he's arrested for assaulting a woman named Sunny Sparta.

[796] And according to the statement by Carl Drew, the other guy on his, wait for it, personal blog, who he's still in prison.

[797] he's a blogger yeah it said that Carl Davis is beat up this three -month pregnant woman sunny stabbed her in the head with a knife and only because she had information implicating him Carl Davis and the woman Robin and that Carl Drew had nothing to do with it but she was too scared this woman Sunny was then too scared to testify Jesus that just keeps happening with these people yeah so there's some really convoluted crazy shit going on on it kind of makes sense though that they wouldn't be involving this truly satanic scariest person well he's if he's not in prison yeah right it's almost like that usually happens where they manipulate everybody into doing what they want yeah the whole time and then everyone else takes the fall well they're proving that it's proven a couple times that they kill people who snitch yes and if karl drew is the killer then they could talk, because he's locked up.

[798] But if the dude who actually did it isn't locked up, I don't know.

[799] Listen.

[800] That really seemed like it was going somewhere.

[801] It was.

[802] You get it.

[803] Like, I don't even need to finish it.

[804] You know what I mean?

[805] Like, it's just, I'm just talking.

[806] So, um, but, but, but, okay, so for that stabbing, he served seven years and he's now free.

[807] This guy, Carl Davis.

[808] Fuck.

[809] Okay.

[810] Getting to the end.

[811] There's a bunch of bad Carls in that area.

[812] Careful.

[813] So many bad curls.

[814] all right so the case of the first chick Doreen LeVec never goes to trial because the district attorney is like it would cost too much and it would be futile because he already has Carl Drew already has a life sentence so what's the point it's called justice I forgot the word um all the charges against okay anyways okay so people still think that the actual ringleader and the murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin.

[815] The 17 -year -old's wannabe pimp girl.

[816] Well, according to this blog that he writes, which I read it, and it's actually, it's pretty, it's good.

[817] It's like he is pissed off about his trial.

[818] He, like, goes down the breakthrough of what happened and, you know, all this, like, prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses to, you know, testify against him.

[819] and he says that her IQ was 138.

[820] She was incredibly smart and manipulative.

[821] And the attorneys don't want to admit that they got fooled by a 17 -year -old girl, apparently.

[822] Just real quick.

[823] So do you think Robin and Carl went to the IQ place one day together and just took some tests and were like, oh, my God, what did you get?

[824] What did you get?

[825] Oh, my God, what you got?

[826] They just both went online and did one of this, like, take the IQ test.

[827] and they have to put your email address in, so it's so annoying to get it.

[828] You know those?

[829] And, like, you've gotten to the end of it and you don't want to give them your email address, but like.

[830] But you have to find out.

[831] You went, you took 10 minutes out of your, yeah, when you're supposed to be working.

[832] I just love that he, he had her IQ right there on hand.

[833] Well, he said that they gave it to her when she went into prison, which I don't think they do.

[834] How would he know that?

[835] Good question.

[836] Just because he has a blog, let's not give him all this credit.

[837] All of a sudden, he's the greatest.

[838] I think every blogger is the greatest.

[839] You know that about it.

[840] me. The minute I found out someone has a blog, I'm like, you relate because you're also a blogger.

[841] Yeah.

[842] Oh, they must be really smart.

[843] Oh, my god.

[844] My kindred, my kind.

[845] My kind.

[846] My people.

[847] So they think that Robin acted alone, or at least it's a mastermind, and that Drew is actually totally innocent.

[848] But he's convicted of first degree murder and for Karen's murder and serving life in Massachusetts, no possibility of parole.

[849] Then, so Robin ends up recanting her statement.

[850] she claimed she lied about the whole thing and that Carl Drew wasn't even involved she says he wasn't even involved and three witnesses come forward who had testified against him that they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and that they actually wanted to testify for him but they got too scared and didn't and sorry so then according to that story it's the other bad Carl Or it's no it's a mystery person.

[851] It's a mystery.

[852] It's maybe Robin and this other Carl.

[853] I don't know exactly.

[854] But Robin is definitely a mastermind in it.

[855] And so who knows who else she worked with.

[856] But that's kind of an amazing movie right there.

[857] Yeah.

[858] You get it one of those fanning girls past them.

[859] It's like Dakota.

[860] Who else is there?

[861] There's Dakota.

[862] There's Dakota.

[863] I'm sure there's others.

[864] So talented.

[865] Back at the house.

[866] Yeah.

[867] They have to lose a lot of weight.

[868] So they get an academy.

[869] award for it is that what they get emmy uh yeah if we make if we make it for tv if it's an HBO thing okay then I would definitely be an Emmy definitely um but I that idea is just like amazing who done it who done it was it a 17 year old running the whole show or was it the fucking 25 year old pimp who had a wade through carcasses of animals so yeah also it's just so uh it's fascinating I would love to know how many people were like at those was it just as straight up we took her into the woods and killed her or did they go ceremonial and was it this big creepy thing like it just seems like now i really want to know what the actual story is was it like were they taking advantage of satanic panic and like putting it all under that yeah like what the hell i just can't imagine someone really believing in satan like he never oh hello he never answers back oh i was going to be like it's not like you can believe in it because he talks to you, but then I'm like, oh, that's what people think about Jesus and God.

[870] I mean, in a lot of things.

[871] Yeah.

[872] Borgons.

[873] Blogs.

[874] Look, he's talking to me. Well, the happy ending of the story is that he has a blog.

[875] And anyone can.

[876] And that blogs forgive you no matter what you do.

[877] Listen, go to a blog spot to start yourself at EORO.

[878] What about Angel Fire?

[879] Isn't that one?

[880] What's that?

[881] Wasn't that a blog spot?

[882] What is it?

[883] Steven.

[884] even what's angel fire yeah it was a it was a blog website it's it's shut down but it's all archives so you can still find your old but what is it just like a host your hosting site it's a hosting program yeah like blog spot that was the first my friend had a blog where she would just rant and talk full shit constantly and it was like bloody blah angel fire dot net or whatever it was and I just thought it was I was so new and it was the beginning of the internet that I thought angel fire was like where all blogs took place.

[885] I was like, oh, angel fire, that's amazing.

[886] And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I was like, oh, there's blogs other places.

[887] Like, yeah, I just thought it was that one spot.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Well, and then blog spot became that one spot.

[890] Mm -hmm.

[891] They got a little smarter.

[892] They went secular with it.

[893] They didn't, they don't involve angels in this.

[894] Or fire?

[895] Sounds satanic.

[896] Yeah, that whole concept is a bit much.

[897] It's a bit beyond.

[898] Like, we don't even believe that.

[899] And we believe in blogs.

[900] They're not true.

[901] What if blogs were a myth?

[902] Like, blogs were like, unicorns like, I don't think they ever existed.

[903] And someone's like, yes, they did.

[904] There's proof.

[905] I could print it up.

[906] And they're like, yeah, right.

[907] I believe in blogs.

[908] My blog is fucking gone from the internet.

[909] So nobody tried to find it, by the way.

[910] Oh, you erased it?

[911] I took it down because I read it recently.

[912] And I was like, oh, my God.

[913] I was like, oh, my God.

[914] Was it just like your diary?

[915] like your daily thoughts?

[916] No. Just give me a taste of it.

[917] Okay.

[918] Like I would write really lovely, flourishy, gorgeous tales of, you know, my life.

[919] But then one of them was about my car getting broken into.

[920] Oh.

[921] Were you there, Stephen?

[922] No. Yeah.

[923] It was just like, it was just such.

[924] Were you there in the 90s with me, Stephen?

[925] Yeah.

[926] Steven, you were there at my blog.

[927] I meant like I did a reading recently in Redwin because it was so stupid.

[928] but oh yeah it was like a 27 year old girl who wanted to sound fucking what's the word worldly yeah yeah you know yeah stop it 27 year olds i mean that's that's what 27 year olds were built for that's what the blogs were built for is 27 year old it's special yeah that's amazing enough about me um let's talk about murder god i wish uh i guess i bet you that's such a frustrating part of being a part of the legal system is so much lying like you just are like we have this whole thing set up and you promise me it was the truth now we're going from with this story yeah and now and then four years later you're like I lied about all of it it's like we're like we went off of that entire thing then it'd be great if like people stop lying I mean if they found like in the same way as you can get like a fingerprint analyzed you can somehow accurately get a lie detector like a lie detector that's not it's not those don't work though they're 50 50 I wonder if people if they came up with isn't there a truth isn't there like a truth serum powder well they they can inject you with truth serum but doesn't necessarily mean you will tell the truth and if you're not a lot about that what's that I don't know a lot about that about true serum I think it's like a it chills you out you know what why am I talking right now you tell us doctors and and chemists I'll tell you thank you So much.

[929] I want to say it's sodium pentothal, but I think that's poison.

[930] No, no, I think it is sodium pentothal.

[931] Did I get that?

[932] Steven, do you think it is?

[933] Oh my God.

[934] I'm so impressed with myself.

[935] I got that.

[936] I think you're right to.

[937] Yeah.

[938] I'm fucking smart.

[939] But I think there are people who can beat it who can game it when they know it's going to happen.

[940] Well, when you don't care about anything, you can't do it.

[941] You can trick it.

[942] Also, I think it's, I think the reason they don't use it more is because you, They can't just shoot up whoever they want.

[943] Yeah, I think I was going to say that it must be against rights somehow.

[944] I bet it is.

[945] Can everyone stop lying?

[946] I mean, I'll start with me. What is it, Stephen?

[947] Sodium pentothal is used to induce comas, anesthesia, euthanasia.

[948] Oh, nope.

[949] That's the euthanasia.

[950] That's a...

[951] Oh, no, truth serum.

[952] There we go.

[953] It's still used in some places as a truth serum to weaken the resolve of a subject and make them more compliant to pressure.

[954] It's called wine.

[955] Try it.

[956] Yeah, exactly.

[957] I was going to say, like, six wine coolers.

[958] This is what a pedi -a -bos.

[959] Watermelon wave.

[960] Bartleson James Strawberry.

[961] Strawberry.

[962] What's that one wine that's like strawberry -flavored wine?

[963] What is it called?

[964] It's like super cheap and shitty.

[965] Blue Nun.

[966] No. I don't know what that is.

[967] But you'd know it.

[968] Thunderbird?

[969] No. Night train.

[970] Someone's yelling it at home.

[971] Yeah.

[972] Someone's drinking it at home.

[973] Who got to hope?

[974] You got to hope.

[975] Okay.

[976] Mine this week I picked because I like doing these ones where I can remember hearing about it or some kind of.

[977] I love those.

[978] Right?

[979] Some kind of thing where you're like, wait, what was that?

[980] Oh, yeah.

[981] I'm going to talk about this.

[982] So I had this, I can't remember whatever I was watching or thinking of, but it was like, because this isn't, there was a murder in it, but it was more of a hostage crisis.

[983] So this is, um, those scare the shit out of me. The man's name was Murdad, Dosti, and it was the 1990 Berkeley hostage crisis.

[984] Do you remember this?

[985] No. 1990, you were blogging.

[986] No, you were too young back then.

[987] It was just called diarying them back then.

[988] I was 10 in 1990, so no. I didn't even know how to write yet.

[989] Can you write a 10?

[990] You could write cursive.

[991] Yeah.

[992] I bet you could write a nice paragraph about like what I did this summer.

[993] Yes.

[994] With some good $10 words in it.

[995] Okay, so I was 20.

[996] So I was in San Francisco.

[997] Oh, so you were fucking there for it.

[998] No, sorry.

[999] I was in Sacramento.

[1000] It could have been you.

[1001] I moved, yeah, I moved to San Francisco when I was 22.

[1002] So I was Sacramento, so I wasn't, like, right across the bay, but we were close by.

[1003] Right.

[1004] And it was on the news.

[1005] This is, this was so crazy because they, when this happened and the news found out about it, they went live on the news.

[1006] Okay.

[1007] So this is basically what happened.

[1008] It's September 26, 1990, just before midnight.

[1009] And a 29 -year -old Iranian male named Murdaad Dosti and his friend, decided to go to Henry's public house, which is in the lobby of the Durant Hotel, one block south of the Berkeley campus in Berkeley, California, right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco.

[1010] So, Murdo Dodd Dahti had told his friend, he went to Berkeley four years earlier.

[1011] He had graduated with an engineering degree.

[1012] And he didn't get a job.

[1013] Like, he He had, he came from Iran and obviously was super smart and got into Berkeley, which no one I knew could do.

[1014] No. And got this engineering degree, but then when he got out, couldn't get a job that was like he didn't get an engineering job.

[1015] He had these dreams of like, now I'm in America and now I'm going to get a really awesome high -paying job.

[1016] So he couldn't get it.

[1017] And he was, he like started doing handyman work.

[1018] and it was, you know, very much beneath him, but he needed the money.

[1019] He had also gotten married, I think it was the year before he graduated, and his marriage, like, kind of crumbled.

[1020] And the more he wasn't finding a job and the less money they had and stuff, the more controlling he was with his wife, and his wife was like, see you later.

[1021] Money issues.

[1022] Yes, bad news.

[1023] So he ends up in this apartment alone.

[1024] and, uh, and he was later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic.

[1025] He was a paranoid schizophrenic.

[1026] Wow.

[1027] So he had started to hear voices, but he wasn't, he didn't deal with it in any way.

[1028] He, he just was listening to the voices, fighting with the voices.

[1029] He was living in that world, but he didn't ever go, um, get any kind of mental help or yeah, medical help for that issue.

[1030] So that night on December 26th, he tells his friend, he wants to be, wants to go to a bar where a lot of blonde white women will be.

[1031] And so his friend decides that they should go to Henry's.

[1032] And Henry's was this, it was really close to the campus.

[1033] So a lot of sorority girls and frat boys would go there.

[1034] And it was just like this super popular bar.

[1035] Sounds like a blast.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Oh, sorry.

[1038] A lot of this I got from a show that I found online that's an ID channel show called Deadly Demands, Season 1 episode.

[1039] 5.

[1040] And they had actually in this show a lot of this live footage that was from KPIX.

[1041] No way.

[1042] I don't know if you remember Channel 5 in San Francisco in the Bay Area.

[1043] KPIX is the local news, local TV channel.

[1044] Do you know their jingle?

[1045] KPIX, no. I could, Channel 2 was the one we watched the most, which was KTVU.

[1046] They had a whole song about, yeah, there was only one, too, was there, like, Slope.

[1047] Isn't that good?

[1048] There was only one, too.

[1049] I was only one too.

[1050] I fucking love that.

[1051] And in the late 70s, early 80s, when the San Francisco Giants only ever lost, like, they never won a game ever, there was a, like, a 15 -second promo that they would run during the cartoon time and, like, after school, like, 4 o 'clock or whatever.

[1052] And it was just, like, the most janky early 80s graphics of a baseball player swinging about, but the, as he swung, it was just, like, flash animation where the colors changed into like a like a brown and yellow rainbow so he would be he would swing and it'd be like brown light brown tan yellow orange or whatever and the song that played underneath it was come on giants hang in there oh my god how fucking pathetic is that that's our new thing when we're feeling low hang in there come on georgia hang in there we used to my sister and to sing it to each other all the time i love it i love it one because it's fucking hilarious and horrible two because you're singing and you have a great voice so it's like like it's good like if i tried it wouldn't be good uh well also it's so tacky it's so ugly everything's brown it doesn't it's brown and it's the kind of thing like you would never see it these days because it's like no don't don't cheer on your losing team by basically going don't quit baseball yeah you'll get there yeah like don't walk up the fields yeah don't give up so anyhow see i told you it was going to be terrible okay um okay so props to k tv u but this was kpi i okay totally different channel um so they're in henry's um they call last call um they're the um dosh dana's friend are sitting in the corner and at one point his friend goes and goes up to get drinks and Dashi goes hold on a hold on a second I'm going to go out to the car he goes out to the car and he comes back with a briefcase yeah um and uh so last call is called everyone's kind of like they're like wrapping it up and at one point Dashi opens the briefcase pulls out a semi automatic and just starts shooting it into the air in the bar in the bar So there are 67 people in the bar At the time And half of them run out Then I think they said like eight people were shot In that time So and then everybody else hits the floor And kind of when the dust settles He says he yells to everybody If you're hurt you can leave right now So weird Yes Yes.

[1053] So there are like one woman in this and deadly, deadly demands.

[1054] She, she got shot eight times and she didn't even know it.

[1055] She was just like sitting there.

[1056] What the fuck?

[1057] Yes.

[1058] And because it's an automatic weapon, because we fucking need automatic weapons in this country so fucking badly.

[1059] Assault rifles.

[1060] Everyone have one.

[1061] And this guy had many.

[1062] He, yeah, she got shot eight times and didn't, she said, I felt uncomfortable.

[1063] And then I touched my side and I was bleeding.

[1064] So she.

[1065] got up and walked out what the fuck she's totally probably making me feel much better though about what the pain that you probably i always like think about the pain when you get shot yeah well you i think you go into shock like she would go into shock because she didn't get shot yeah in any she got luckily was like her side um so she got to leave and then there was a guy they he shot a guy right in the chest a student and two other guys went can we please bring him outside because he can't go outside by himself and dashi said you can but you have to come back so they all go outside i seriously doubt they came back can you imagine you're like i'm a man of my word i'm here i'm here again so um okay so there's a cop a patrol officer that's walking up and down the street and he's um like half a block away he hears gunshots he thinks it might be firecrackers but he goes to look and see what it is.

[1066] And as he gets closer, he sees the people running out of the pub.

[1067] He realizes then it's gunfire and he immediately calls it in.

[1068] So there's cops and ambulances and everybody on the scene really quickly because luckily someone was right there like the second it went off.

[1069] So they have the bar surrounded very quickly.

[1070] The SWAT team is on site.

[1071] And, you know, So this is the amazing part.

[1072] He, so the hurt people leave.

[1073] He's got everybody else.

[1074] And he immediately makes everyone that's still in the bar line up against the windows that face the, there's like a wall of windows that face the street.

[1075] And he's like, everybody line up against the windows.

[1076] Therefore, they're blocking the windows from the cops can't see and they can't shoot into the windows.

[1077] How scary for those people.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] Where's his friend right now?

[1080] His friend ran out.

[1081] Okay.

[1082] And his friend ran out, Randall the cops said his name is this.

[1083] He has these guns like I didn't know.

[1084] And he lives up the street.

[1085] So then immediately the cops get a search warrant and they go into his apartment.

[1086] And they start discovering all the things that they eventually find out about him, which is he went to Berkeley.

[1087] He's basically now living almost in squalor, divorced.

[1088] And he's written all these letters to the police, to the government, basically saying, you owe me $16 trillion for.

[1089] the um psychic uh services that i've been providing for you so he believes that the voices in his head are the american government telling him what to do wow and he has been listening and obeying and now believes he should be compensated yeah for what he's been doing and it's so insane in the show they show um two hours before he takes this bar hostage he had called 911 in burgh And he's talked and this woman is so calm and trying to get the information out of him.

[1090] But he's basically saying in a very calm and rational sounding voice, he's saying, okay, so I just need the police and the government to pay me the money they owe me. Oh my God.

[1091] Because they have been used, you know, my telepathy, they've been using it.

[1092] And they said they were going to pay me and I need that money.

[1093] Did you listen to it?

[1094] Yes.

[1095] I didn't realize, I thought it was a reenactment and then realized.

[1096] Because everyone's so chill.

[1097] Yes.

[1098] They were, the woman was so professional and he was so calm that it was not a reenactment.

[1099] Wow.

[1100] And it was, it's the kind of thing where if I was a dispatcher, I don't know if I would have stayed on the phone with him less long as she did because it sounded like bullshit.

[1101] It went from reasonable to super crazy where you'd go, oh, this is a person playing a prank.

[1102] It doesn't sound like a crazy person at all.

[1103] He sounds very reasonable and like he just needs a. money.

[1104] And what he starts telling her is he needs money because he just got this letter saying he has to go to jail.

[1105] And what had happened was he, uh, I think it was like three weeks before.

[1106] I can't remember the timeline exactly.

[1107] But he, because he had didn't have a job, because his wife left him, because he didn't have any money, he had taken his car, driven into San Francisco and just smashed a bunch of really nice cars with his car.

[1108] And he got arrested for it.

[1109] He got caught after having done it.

[1110] He basically probably went to, like, Pacific Heights or Knob Hill or somewhere crazy fancy and just, like, smashed all the Mercedes, like, parked on one street.

[1111] I mean, wouldn't, who wouldn't want to?

[1112] I bet it felt pretty great.

[1113] Probably.

[1114] As revenge.

[1115] But then here's the problem.

[1116] They arrest him.

[1117] They bring him into the police station, and they do a strip search on him.

[1118] And for him, already being in the mental state that he's in, and also being a practicing Muslim where being naked, like, they made him strip naked and it was incredibly obviously i mean it'd be demeaning to anybody it doesn't matter what your religion is but the way they were saying it in this story it made it down like it was in a religious way not very inappropriate for humiliating yeah probably now there's like yeah i don't know so so that was part of it so um so when he one of his first demands so what he does is um once he gets everyone lined up against the wall he first asked he makes all the blonde pretty he says all the pretty blonde women in the bar come and stand in the center so they do and he makes them strip and then there's no it's not in any of the like articles i found it wasn't it was definitely not in deadly demand but um i heard about this like it was things that people weren't that they weren't putting in the newspaper but basically after making these women strip, he made the men in the bar basically sexually assault the women.

[1119] Oh, my God.

[1120] But no one has, that was in this website.

[1121] I found that's like a police report thing, but they do not go into detail at all.

[1122] And of course, a lot of the men tried to block his view so they were pretending to be doing something that they weren't actually doing.

[1123] But then apparently there were things where he, it was, he made like them.

[1124] Oh, my God.

[1125] But I don't know what it is.

[1126] It's the creepiest part of the story, and it's the part that I remember people talking about the most.

[1127] Did they?

[1128] Talk about it?

[1129] Just person to person.

[1130] So who knows the urban legend element of it because it's so salacious and gross?

[1131] But also, the thing that I heard was that he made somebody assault someone else with a carrot.

[1132] And he talked about Bugs Bunny a lot.

[1133] Like it was this, like one of his.

[1134] fixations.

[1135] But that, to me, that sounds like it could just as much be an urban legend as it could be anything else.

[1136] That's like totally sounds like crazy.

[1137] One of you seen a carrot in a bar lately?

[1138] Right.

[1139] Or did he bring it with him because it was part of his like weird plan to humiliate like what would humiliate a person the most?

[1140] Right.

[1141] I don't know.

[1142] Any way you slice it it's hideous and disgusting.

[1143] But they barely touch on it in the in the TV show version.

[1144] it's just the women standing there stripping and stripped and crying and like being humiliated that way so then the next thing he says is he makes a guy take a barstool and break out a window and then the guy he sits down against the wall is squatted down and he just makes this guy be his voice for him so the guy and you see this they have news footage of this because this is they went live on KPIX almost immediately and you see the guy who's like a frat boy if from the 80s.

[1145] He's got like, you know, like the blonde hair parted on the side and the white shirt or whatever.

[1146] Did he look scared or was he nervous?

[1147] Too far away to see.

[1148] But you can kind of just see that it's like an 80s outfit.

[1149] And he's basically saying they want, he wants police chief Frank Jordan.

[1150] Is it the mayor of the police chief?

[1151] I think he's the police chief.

[1152] I have it here somewhere wants him to go on the news and take his pants off he wants him to strip from the waist down and go on live TV this is some dark mirror shit yeah black mirror black mirror yeah this is some black mirror shit but it's basically he wants he wants to humiliate the head of the police department the way he was humiliated and he wants it to be on TV yeah um which finally there's a because I had only ever heard of those demands that he had and they just made it sound like can you believe that it's like no there's fucking backstory to this yeah He was, there's a reason for it.

[1153] There is a logic to it.

[1154] It's kind of like the center of the whole fucking thing.

[1155] It really is.

[1156] And also why, if you smashed your car into things, why did you have to get strip searched?

[1157] I mean, it's almost like, were they, yeah.

[1158] Or were they like, he's clearly on some drugs.

[1159] Right.

[1160] When he was just schizophrenic?

[1161] Or was it that time of like, was it racism?

[1162] Yeah.

[1163] Was it some kind, what was happening?

[1164] Definitely.

[1165] Okay.

[1166] Okay, so, no, it is Frank Jordan.

[1167] Frank Jordan was the chief of police.

[1168] Okay, so anyway, they're like, and he's basically saying he turned on the TV in the bar, and he's like, I want to see it happening.

[1169] So it's driving the negotiators crazy because he won't get on the phone and he won't talk himself because he knows if he stands up in front of that window, they're going to shoot him.

[1170] So he will only talk through a proxy.

[1171] or, you know, whatever.

[1172] So they can't negotiate that way.

[1173] So they keep saying, like, we need more time.

[1174] He's also demanding, he demanded $16 trillion.

[1175] He also wanted California, Nevada, and Oregon.

[1176] Like, because he wants, he is like, this is what I'm owed.

[1177] I've done all this work for you psychically.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] You owe me this.

[1180] So anyway, they keep saying, we need time.

[1181] or we have to, but that's when the negotiators and the police start to realize this is a very bad situation because we can't give him even some of what he needs.

[1182] We can't even approximate a negotiation here.

[1183] So this is going to go badly.

[1184] Couldn't they have, like, lied?

[1185] Well, but he wanted to see it on the news.

[1186] He wanted to see it on his TV.

[1187] So he wanted to see something actually happening and they're like, there's, there will not be progress here.

[1188] Right.

[1189] So that all happens, like, basically in four hours.

[1190] So it's now 4 a .m. And there's no progress.

[1191] I mean, he's getting really agitated.

[1192] And he finally says, I guess I'm going to have to shoot somebody, which one of you is going to be the one that gets shot?

[1193] Oh, my God.

[1194] And he's looking around this bar.

[1195] And these are college kids.

[1196] They're all people that are probably the oldest 23.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] And they're looking at each other.

[1199] And one guy steps forward and says, you can shoot me. Yep.

[1200] So then.

[1201] I want to cry.

[1202] He says, can I go tell them what's about to happen?

[1203] And the guy says, yes.

[1204] So he goes to the window and says, I'm about to be, I'm about to be, um, sorry, I'm about to be executed right now.

[1205] And of course, the police are like, they don't know what to do because they don't have a clear, they don't have a clear in in any way.

[1206] And it also was a part of it that the part of, that was bad was that it was in this lobby of this hotel.

[1207] So there's people in the hotel.

[1208] Holy shit.

[1209] And it's the middle of the night, but they know they're, like, time is ticking away because pretty soon, like, by 7 a .m., this is a college campus.

[1210] They're practically on campus.

[1211] So, like, they're not going to be able to keep people from coming closer and closer to the scene.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] So they know they're going to have to do something about it soon.

[1214] Oh, my God.

[1215] So the guy yells out the window.

[1216] Nobody knows what to do.

[1217] This is on the news.

[1218] They have, like, they were showing this footage.

[1219] The kid walks back.

[1220] He says to the guy, can I say a prayer?

[1221] and the guy says yes and so the kid says a prayer they all are just sitting there like watching some of them will close their eyes and then the guy shoots into the ceiling and so when they said these people being interviewed who went through this said like they heard all the noises that smoke clears and then he's still standing there so they realize that he's just trying he's trying to prove that he means business but he actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody but he just feels like he's being pushed to the limit.

[1222] That guy who volunteered.

[1223] They don't say his name.

[1224] I couldn't find his name anywhere.

[1225] I know.

[1226] Martin Hardstock.

[1227] What is my dad?

[1228] Oh, my God.

[1229] What is your dad?

[1230] My dad's like, oh, that was a crazy night at work.

[1231] Well, I used to go to co -ed bars sometimes.

[1232] I took some night classes over at Cal. Yeah.

[1233] That's what he would call it.

[1234] Cal. So a couple of the women in the show say that they think that, actually made him feel very empowered and made him feel better.

[1235] So it brought the level of tension down a little bit because it was like...

[1236] Because he could choose who was going to kill him or not.

[1237] Exactly right.

[1238] And he kind of chose the better thing.

[1239] But that's also from outside, the cops freak out because they think someone, someone yells, I'm about to be executed and then there's gunshots.

[1240] So, it's so hard to hear these things and not think of like cell phones.

[1241] I know.

[1242] You know what I mean?

[1243] because you're like, oh, I wonder if someone had their cell phone open and it's like, there weren't cell phone.

[1244] 1990, there was nothing.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] It's so weird.

[1247] There was nothing.

[1248] It was such a bizarrely innocent time in some ways.

[1249] And then also, media -wise, very stupid because the fact that the news was running it live, like, people got to watch it as it happened, was very bad.

[1250] And it bolstered him probably because he was like now a big deal and everyone was, that's that thing of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victim's names, because that's what they want us to be famous.

[1251] Exactly, right.

[1252] And it gave the police no control.

[1253] Whatever happened and whatever the newscasters decided to talk about was what was happening.

[1254] So when the newscasters found out that he had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, they said it, he saw it, then he got all upset.

[1255] Totally.

[1256] Or he got, his wife left him or whatever.

[1257] Yes.

[1258] He sees it and then he's like, it's more, and it's also feeding into his paranoid, schizophrenic idea that the government is in his head.

[1259] All of the things that were happening were feeding into all his worst fears.

[1260] Wow, that makes sense.

[1261] And escalating it, essentially.

[1262] Okay, so, um, so they put snipers on the roof across the street.

[1263] And at one point, they're like, because they're trying to, you know, now it's, uh, it's, it's four AM, it's get, you know, it's been going on.

[1264] So they decide that the snipers are like, like these street lights are actually compromising our position here.

[1265] If he looks out the window, he can see us sitting here.

[1266] You might freak out.

[1267] So somebody else decides to shoot out the street lights.

[1268] Well, then he hears.

[1269] Dashi hears that happening outside and gets all agitated.

[1270] Jesus, that was a bad idea.

[1271] Yeah.

[1272] That's when they said he, his mood starts to swing from, he's like, raged, screaming, going crazy.

[1273] to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself for like long periods of time um at 5 a .m. he tells the bartender give everybody four beers everybody drink and have fun and one of the women being interviewed um says that's when we knew he was going to kill all of us because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us when it happened he felt like that it was clear that the plan was like have your last four beers have have your like final hurrah party my god and that's when it got super scary um oh in that so he has a briefcase just for the details in the briefcase he has a large caliber revolver two handguns a fully automatic pistol um oh sorry no the the handguns were one was fully automatic and one was semi automatic and then he has ammy for all three.

[1274] So he's just got, it's like they're, he's not going anywhere.

[1275] He's got a briefcase full of stuff.

[1276] As they're watching the news, the news reports that the boy that he shot in the chest died at the hospital.

[1277] Oh, no. And Dosti starts going crazy, going, I didn't do it.

[1278] I did not kill him.

[1279] They're lying.

[1280] They're, this is the government.

[1281] They're lying.

[1282] I didn't do it.

[1283] And he loses his shit.

[1284] Oh, my God.

[1285] Which I think is another really sad part about it Because it's like he went in there He had this big plan He was gonna, he wanted to defile America's citizens He wanted to do to America What America was doing to him But he actually didn't Like actually deep down That he wasn't a killer really He wanted to do that But he didn't doesn't sound like Because letting all the people who got hurt go Is just such a Yeah Go get help, you know It's yeah It's not what like a you know, psychopath would do or a person that's like, I've got this plan and here's my perfect revenge.

[1286] It's like a person with a serious mental issue who's trying to fix the complete abject desperation of his own life.

[1287] It's horrifying.

[1288] So anyway, so, okay, so he tells one of the female hostages to go into, to see if she can go find, go into the kitchen, which is now dark, and find a light switch.

[1289] Like he wanted to go into the background for some reason.

[1290] Well, she goes in there and then sees that there's an exit door and she gets the fuck out.

[1291] Yeah, and then she goes to the police and, like, reports everything that's going on and updates everything.

[1292] And then another at around 4 a .m., another female hostage, she had moved into and hid in the dining room area, and she managed to open like an accordion.

[1293] style door that led to the hotel lobby so she got out too um so then uh around 615 in the morning um the rear kitchen door opens again and a third female hostage who was sent into the kitchen to find a light he would not learn his last does yeah he just wants that light so bad that he's not seeing his mistake so she gets out too so now there's 33 people still in the pub with him um now the problem is, again, because it's the 90s, there's no cell phones or anything.

[1294] The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system.

[1295] So it's, you know, that crazy thing of like, all the lines are connected to the lobby.

[1296] So it took them that really long time to just go straight to the pub phone.

[1297] Wow.

[1298] So they finally start calling the pub phone and he won't answer it.

[1299] And he's saying they're just trying to get to me. They're trying to distract me. And just not coincidentally, but by chance or whatever the is that the same um the phone's cord couldn't stretch past the bar so when the phone was ringing he was like bring it to me but it couldn't reach where he was so he would have had to get up and walk to the bar to answer the phone which he believed was a trick so he makes a guy yeah it's just one more thing where it's like everything's feeding into his paranoia so he makes a guy get on the phone and again by proxy they're trying to negotiate which it doesn't work and And the guy is demanding yelling stuff and whatever.

[1300] And the proxy is kind of trying to say the calm version of what the guy is saying.

[1301] Because he's like, I want $16 trillion for my mental telepathy services.

[1302] It's all that stuff.

[1303] So they had basically, they knew they were at an impasse because they weren't going to be able to negotiate with him.

[1304] They had done everything that they could in terms of negotiation.

[1305] so they knew now that the waiting strategy that part was over because they had they had to take some kind of an action so they decided they were going to do um diversion tactics which is basically when the swap team goes in in two teams and one of the team rolls in like a flash canister right and then the other team comes in from the other side right so when they they uh it's 723 in the morning.

[1306] So they'd been there for fucking almost eight hours.

[1307] They roll in the flash canister and everyone starts screaming and the cops come in and the second team like opens the door and they're like, get out, get out, get out.

[1308] So some people are running and as the he stands up from his place where he'd been, you know, like crouched against the wall and he starts, moving toward a booth where he had all these people seated and when the SWAT team saw him moving toward that group of hostages they shot him they yelled for him to put the gun down or whatever and he didn't and he kept moving and so they shot him there and then they got the rest of the hostages out and then they got Dosti into an ambulance and he died on the way to the hospital yeah and Holy shit essentially the the news was using high power cameras.

[1309] They were monitoring police radios.

[1310] They were seeking public interviews.

[1311] They were broadcasting detailed and often uncooperated information the entire night and never thinking about what would happen.

[1312] And they actually, I'm not sure if it was KPIX or a different news place, but they had, they reported the SWAT team plan on the news and the only reason Dosti didn't see it is because he had turned it to a different channel at that point.

[1313] What the fuck?

[1314] Just by luck.

[1315] Because they were just basically, it was almost like, having never been in that scenario before, they were like, let's go with the story, let's keep people.

[1316] It's the reason that like, it's the reason we are now in this 24 -hour news cycle that is, that is captured and poisoned the minds of so many people.

[1317] because the news does it for money and because they keep eyes on the screen and this was almost like one of the first versions of that and the worst versions of it.

[1318] So anyway, to date, they say this incident is one of the most significant hostage rescue operative, significant and successful hostage rescue operations in U .S. history.

[1319] Wow.

[1320] Yeah.

[1321] Yeah, I mean, it's amazing.

[1322] that they were able to do that without anyone else getting hurt.

[1323] Yes.

[1324] You know?

[1325] Yeah, they didn't shoot anybody or no innocent bystanders.

[1326] But it's really crazy in that show watching in the morning light when those people finally start running and there's just swap people all the way up the street going like this and just people in 80s clothes fucking like booking it up the street.

[1327] How have I never seen that?

[1328] It's, yeah.

[1329] I'm just picturing the Columbine video, the footage.

[1330] of the kids getting out of the yeah and how scary that is so so awful that is so terrifying you just got to wonder what you do in those like you personally would do in those situations and as much as I'm like it's the thing of like well those girls escaped but like at what cost you know to like because you're always like well they're going to kill someone else because I escaped but then they were able to probably tell police where he was crouched and what he was doing and what he yes like what this situation was inside also the girl that got shot eight times her friends had to stay behind so she had all this guilt she got to leave and her friends were there so she's like um you get shot eight times i think yeah you got shot eight times you're you're free and clear but i mean that's what a terrible scenario to even be in totally um and yeah it's just it's such a crazy fucking unbelievable thing that happened.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] Well, fuck, man. Yeah.

[1333] That's a rough one.

[1334] God bless.

[1335] Amen.

[1336] Okay.

[1337] Positive thing this week?

[1338] Positive thing this week.

[1339] Go ahead.

[1340] Okay.

[1341] Um, last night I got to see the movie The Big Sick, which our friends, Emily Gordon, and Kumail Nanjiani made.

[1342] And it was so lovely and such a great romantic story that isn't shitty.

[1343] It was weird because I've known Emily for a long time and she told me the story about how it's a story of how they started dating.

[1344] And she told me this and just to watch it and Kumail's in it and Zoe Kazan who's so fucking talent.

[1345] It was just please go watch it.

[1346] It's just such a great movie of like, is it out?

[1347] I think it's coming out this weekend or something.

[1348] Okay, cool.

[1349] Yeah, but it was just so lovely, and it was great to see, great to see that.

[1350] It made me really happy.

[1351] Nice.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] Cool.

[1354] What about you?

[1355] Well, I guess I'll just do, I can do the simple one of that.

[1356] I, I get to write on baskets this new season, which is very exciting.

[1357] It's amazing.

[1358] I love that job, and I love the people that work there, and it's just like a very, very, very cool room to work in.

[1359] Yeah.

[1360] And, um, that's so great.

[1361] so yeah so that's it's even though it's hard uh to have what this is now a full time job this podcast so to have two is challenging but we've done it before we have well thanks for listening you guys yes thank you we hope everything was great we hope you are happy this has been my favorite murder you guys thank you stay sexy and don't get murdered bye bye me me want a cookie Audio