A.J. Jacobs (on puzzles and living biblically)

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by Minister Miles, the Duchess of Duluth.

[2] Hello.

[3] We had a really fun time talking to this gentleman.

[4] Extremely.

[5] Yeah, because we get to play games and puzzles on this episode.

[6] It's a kind of an interactive episode in some ways.

[7] It is, and if you like brain teasers, boy, there's a bunch in this episode.

[8] A .J. Jacobs is a best -selling author, journalist, lecture, and human guinea pig.

[9] He, as you'll learn a lot about, he had this incredible book that got our...

[10] attention called the year of living biblically where he lived to the letter of the Old Testament for a whole year, which is way crazier than you can imagine.

[11] He has a new book called The Puzzler One Man's Quest to solve the most baffling puzzles ever, from crosswords to jigsaws to the meaning of life.

[12] It's a raucous good time.

[13] Please enjoy A .J. Jacobs.

[14] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and add free right now.

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[16] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[17] Hello.

[18] Hi there.

[19] Hello.

[20] Thank you so much for having me. Oh, our pleasure.

[21] Are you in New York City?

[22] I am in New York City.

[23] I'm in my bedroom slash office and I can't turn the radiator off.

[24] and I can't open the window or AC because it would be too loud.

[25] So I'm sitting with a ice pack on my groin.

[26] Oh, what a hack.

[27] Yeah.

[28] Thank you.

[29] Tim Ferriss would be proud.

[30] This is nothing.

[31] We have interviewed many folks sitting in their apartments in New York City, and there's times where we've wanted to say to the guests like, hey, if it was us, we'd peek out the window.

[32] Like, there's clearly 20 fire trucks and some shit's going down.

[33] Like, feel free to look.

[34] They were once filming like an HBO.

[35] show where it was an alternative universe and it was on our street and it was like Charles Lindberg was president.

[36] It was like a demonstration and they were saying Lindberg is a Nazi.

[37] Lemberg is a Nazi.

[38] Oh wow.

[39] But I wasn't on a podcast at the time.

[40] It was just a little disturbing.

[41] Do you think that runs any risk of like when the shit is hitting the family once your building is on fire?

[42] When the nukes come from Russia, I'll be like, yeah, it's just someone carjacking or something.

[43] Are you the type run towards a disaster?

[44] Not at all, are you?

[45] Well, Daxes.

[46] I love it.

[47] One of my favorite things you can witness in Manhattan is when there is a fire because it is paramount that they get there immediately.

[48] You know, every building's touching each other.

[49] So the fucking fire department, they're like SWAT times three in Manhattan.

[50] If you see them coming down the street, follow them, because they will smash 20, 30 cars before they get to the building.

[51] And if there's a car in front of it, they just blast into it.

[52] because, like, you know, priority, it's triage.

[53] Sure.

[54] That sounds fun.

[55] I mean, have you ever seen a fire engine just obliterate a double -park car?

[56] No, but I'm going to start following them.

[57] That sounds awesome.

[58] I did have the fire department come here once because I was doing an article where I recreated the original Thanksgiving, so I was trying to cook ducks and muscles.

[59] They didn't have turkeys.

[60] We have a fireplace, but I never used, and I lit it on fire.

[61] It didn't flood our apartment with smoke, but our downstairs neighbors.

[62] Wait, so this would be a shocking revelation.

[63] to most of us.

[64] They didn't have turkeys?

[65] They did not have turkeys at the original Thanksgiving.

[66] They had a lot of venison, oysters, duck.

[67] Are turkeys indigenous to North America?

[68] I can't remember, but they had like some wild fowl, but it was not what we think of as turkeys, not butterball.

[69] Was the cornucopia factual, the horn of plenty?

[70] I don't believe it was.

[71] Oh, man. I'm sorry.

[72] But you know what they did have?

[73] They had like fun games that were very violent.

[74] One One game they played was called shins, and they stood in a circle and kicked each other in the shins until only one person was standing.

[75] I see this on Instagram all the time.

[76] There's a very popular sport, in quotes, that sounds like the evolution of shins, which is men slap each other in the face.

[77] Have you seen this?

[78] No. Just these enormous men get slapped in the face and then just drop out a frame.

[79] It's a wild.

[80] All right.

[81] It keeps getting promoted in my feed.

[82] I don't know if the algorithm thinks, well, it knows I enjoy that, but maybe even pushing me towards it.

[83] It sounds like idiocry.

[84] Yeah.

[85] It's virtually all my balls.

[86] All right.

[87] So I think for anyone to get a bang out of this interview, we need to do a little precursor, which is what leads you to this book.

[88] I think Monica and I both were introduced to you on a podcast.

[89] We think it was Sam Harris's.

[90] Did you do his?

[91] Yeah, I sure did.

[92] Right.

[93] So we were introduced to you there.

[94] And basically, you were promoting the book, the Year of Living, biblically.

[95] It would be really fun for people to understand what kind of books you write, what you go through to write them.

[96] And I think that's a great one to start with.

[97] Just so we can frame it accurately, we're talking Old Testament.

[98] Is that what we're talking about?

[99] Yes, exactly.

[100] I'm ignorant on most things biblical, but written about 2000 BC, or at least that's the period it's coming out of.

[101] Is that accurate?

[102] It was written over hundreds of years.

[103] That's the other thing.

[104] So basically, the origin of this book was I grew up in a very secular family.

[105] I had no religion.

[106] I say in the book, I'm Jewish, in the same way, the Olive Garden is Italian.

[107] Nice, nice.

[108] No offense, the Olive Garden.

[109] But yeah, so I grew up with no religion, but I was very interested in religion.

[110] I had a kid about to be born, so I thought one way to learn about religion would be to live it, to dive in and actually follow it.

[111] So I thought, what if I follow every rule in the Bible as literally as possible?

[112] And I wasn't just talking about the famous ones in the old Testament.

[113] I wanted to do those.

[114] I wanted to do the Ten Commandments and love your neighbor.

[115] Basically, there are hundreds of crazy rules that people just don't pay attention to.

[116] You can't shave the corners of your beard.

[117] I didn't know where the corners were, so I looked like Ted Kaczynski.

[118] You can't wear clothes made of two different types of fabrics.

[119] You had to stone adulterers.

[120] This one I remember.

[121] I used very small stones, so I didn't go to jail for an extended period of time.

[122] So it was a wild year.

[123] I guess I had two motivations.

[124] One was I was concerned about fundamentalists who say, we're taking the Bible literally.

[125] That's why being gay is a sin.

[126] So I wanted to say, all right, well, actually, I'm going to be the ultimate fundamentalist.

[127] You say you're taking the Bible literally, but you're missing all this stuff.

[128] But I also had another motivation, which was I really did want to see if I was missing anything.

[129] Yeah, you have to imagine this book that has endured for 3 ,000 years as some merit.

[130] Right.

[131] So there was the snarky motivation and then the earnest motivation.

[132] And the earnest one, I did learn a lot that changed my life even to this day.

[133] So, you know, I shaved the beard, as you can see.

[134] Yeah.

[135] I do have it in a plastic bag.

[136] I would not love to see that.

[137] My two immediate thoughts and questions are like, A, how much of your day was explaining what the fuck was going on?

[138] Because you moved through the world and you're like constantly probably doing some very weird and erratic looking things.

[139] and you have to go, oh, so sorry, I'm living a year biblically, I'm an author.

[140] Was that a big chunk of your life?

[141] I didn't have time a lot.

[142] One of the rules in the Bible, it's in Ecclesiastes, is that your garments should always be white, only white clothes.

[143] So I looked like I was playing Wimbledon in the 50s or something.

[144] And I had my huge beard.

[145] Sometimes I'd have the sandals and the walking stick.

[146] So a lot of times people would, like, go to the other side of the street.

[147] Some people gave me money just right up front because they thought, I was homeless.

[148] I'm living biblically, so I had to give it to the orphans and blind people.

[149] So you know, that's in the Bible.

[150] I would imagine the only people that wanted to talk to you were high.

[151] And I say that very sincerely, because when I was a functioning coke addict, I would talk to anybody.

[152] The weirder, let's get into it.

[153] What's happening with the white clothes?

[154] Yeah, some people actually thought, I looked like this, therefore I must be holy.

[155] It's really interesting to see how much the outer affects the inner.

[156] And if you look the part, how people are like, oh, my God, you must have some wisdom.

[157] So then I started to go to my head.

[158] I'm like, oh, maybe I am like the chosen one.

[159] Yeah, did you get a little bit of like kind of holier and thou, the righteousness?

[160] Oh, yeah.

[161] I couldn't believe they were coveting and lying and gossiping or terrible sinners.

[162] But it's hard because it says you cannot lie or gossip or covet.

[163] That's impossible.

[164] I'm a journalist too.

[165] And New York City, That's most of my time was coveting and lying.

[166] I never cut it out totally, but I did get it down.

[167] And I will say that was one of the things that made my life better, the surprisingly positive experience to try to cut out gossip.

[168] My personal example is like I made a New Year's resolution that I was not allowed to honk my horn at anybody anymore.

[169] And prior to making that resolution, if you asked me how often I honk my horn, I would have guessed like maybe twice a week.

[170] But in not being able to do it, I realize like, oh, I'm honking my horn probably a few times a day.

[171] because I'm having to overcome that urge to honk it.

[172] And I'm realizing, oh, shit, I do this so much more than I thought.

[173] Did it start with that?

[174] Like, oh, I'm about to gossip.

[175] Oh, I'm about to...

[176] Oh, yeah.

[177] No, you start to realize how much I lie to myself, lie to my kids.

[178] It is quite shocking when you start to count it up.

[179] First of all, can't they make horns like more mellifluous, like something that actually sounds nice?

[180] Like the thing they play at the beginning of Netflix or HBO.

[181] Exactly.

[182] Yeah, comforting.

[183] Yeah.

[184] Well, because the point is to stop doing what you're doing, like jolt out of your comfort zone.

[185] I mean, in theory, but if we walk through that being a good or a bad protocol, people getting alarmed isn't a great state of being to make any good decisions that should come next.

[186] Well, I mean, the real purpose is to stop you from getting in an accident.

[187] Well, what about someone with like a commanding, a soothing voice, like a James Earl Jones?

[188] It would be okay if people didn't abuse it, is my point.

[189] Well, this is what I'm saying.

[190] I agree with you.

[191] So what needs to happen is someone's not paying attention to some element that needs to be brought to their attention.

[192] Agreed.

[193] Yeah.

[194] But I still think if you heard like, boom, boom, boom, really loud, you would still go, what the fuck is that?

[195] But you wouldn't be like, ah, I'm getting hit by a tree.

[196] What do I do now?

[197] I think it puts you in your reptilian brain.

[198] We should do a test, a scientific experiment on this.

[199] Because I disagree.

[200] Shocker, shocker, we disagree on this.

[201] Oh, so then my next curiosity is, because I'm hyper aware of gossip as well, for a bunch of different reasons.

[202] But when I observe it, because I'm trying not to do it, and then I feel the urge in myself to gossip, I have to recognize I'm generally gossiping about people I'm either envious of or that have a quality of mind that I hate.

[203] And so I'm wondering, like, what did you come to learn about gossip in general by not doing it?

[204] One thing that really surprised me was when I gave myself a gag order and said, I'm not going to gossip, I started to think fewer negative thoughts.

[205] I think that my brain was like, well, this is never going to get out into the atmosphere.

[206] And that was another example of how your behavior affects your thoughts, which was a profound lesson that kind of runs through all of my books, is that the outer affects the inner.

[207] There's a phrase I love from the founder of Hab to Have for Humanity who says, it's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking than think your way into a new way of acting.

[208] Okay, so that was the most profound takeaway from the interview you did.

[209] And I have repeated that for four years straight.

[210] And it's really, really relevant in AA.

[211] And I tell guys all the time, like, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

[212] It's not going to make sense to you.

[213] But try doing it.

[214] Just practice doing it.

[215] And then just find out if it doesn't reverse engineer your thinking.

[216] And it does.

[217] I'm so honored that you took it away.

[218] I'm doing it now.

[219] You know, I've got a book coming out.

[220] And I don't know how it's going to do, but I'm pretending that I'm confident.

[221] It's one of the most useful things I've ever run across.

[222] All right.

[223] So let's sidebar right there because that's interesting what you just said.

[224] And I aspire to this.

[225] Sometimes I have it.

[226] Sometimes I don't, which is don't you think if you weren't you and you were talking to you that you would be able to clearly see like, hey man, you've had a bunch of successful books.

[227] It doesn't fucking matter.

[228] Like what you do is write books.

[229] You're in the show up and work business.

[230] You're not in the results business.

[231] What's the number where you finally check the box, I'm successful or I'm competent or whatever the thing is.

[232] Yeah, I think the number is infinity.

[233] And I talk about it's in my gratitude book.

[234] You know, we have this horrible negative bias, which was wired in for evolution, you know, which was good on the Savannah.

[235] You wanted to be able to look at the one poisonous mushroom and focus on that.

[236] But now, of course, you hear 100 compliments and one insult.

[237] And, of course, you remember the insult.

[238] It's been delightful.

[239] I've gotten free publication reviews for this.

[240] But anyone who doesn't call me back, I'm like, oh my God, they hate the book.

[241] I use gratitude to combat it.

[242] To combat it.

[243] That other book came out of the Bible book, the thanks a thousand, where I thanked a thousand people who had anything to do with my cup of coffee.

[244] Yeah, that's very, very cool.

[245] I do have the fairy tale of the finish line.

[246] And I guess maybe that's what I'm proposing to you is like, you know, at what point do I say you cross the finish line?

[247] Now fucking enjoy, relax, do whatever.

[248] I think that it is a bias that everyone has to, think that there's going to be an end.

[249] And I remember when a friend in mine had twins, and I have twins, my twins are like 12 at the time.

[250] And he said, when is the light at the end of the tunnel?

[251] And I was actually proud of this because I remembered it.

[252] I said, there is no end of the tunnel.

[253] You've just got to get used to the lights inside the tunnel.

[254] Those fluorescent lights, if you appreciate them, you will start to enjoy the tunnel.

[255] So enjoy the tunnel.

[256] It's just a fantasy that it's ever going to end.

[257] Yeah.

[258] This is similar, because we're talking about everything being temporary.

[259] Our friend Amy told me this, like, profound parable, parable riddle, which, ding, ding, ding, we're going to hit some puzzles.

[260] What will make a sad person happy and a happy person sad?

[261] You must already know the answer to that.

[262] I'm a virgin in this riddle.

[263] You already know the answer?

[264] No. Say it one more time.

[265] I'm stumped.

[266] What?

[267] Okay, I guess, no, I was going to make it easier, but now.

[268] Make it even harder this time.

[269] Well, we'll make a sad person happy and a happy person sad.

[270] Love?

[271] Well, that's a good answer, though.

[272] You would agree, AJ.

[273] That works.

[274] Well, why would a happy person be made sad by love?

[275] Because you lose it.

[276] Well, that you're on to something.

[277] Oh.

[278] So it's sort of like, I give up.

[279] I give up.

[280] You stump me. You stump me, Monica.

[281] The knowledge that this two shall pass.

[282] So for a happy person, the happy part will pass.

[283] And for a sad person, the sad part will pass.

[284] Yeah.

[285] All temporary.

[286] Transient.

[287] Everything's temporary.

[288] I like that.

[289] That's a profound riddle.

[290] That's not one you'd see on like a Dixie Cup.

[291] Exactly.

[292] So I have pet peeves with riddles sometimes.

[293] I love them.

[294] But my kids will hit me with them sometimes.

[295] I'm like, well, gang, that's like one of four great answers.

[296] So I said love.

[297] That works for that riddle.

[298] But why?

[299] Because love makes people sad, too.

[300] It makes them happy and it makes them sad.

[301] Well, that is interesting because there is a debate in the puzzle world.

[302] Like puzzles where you have multiple answers.

[303] Some people love that.

[304] And actually, I talk about in my book, there's these medieval riddles that don't have an answer key, and there are these professors who spend years debating.

[305] Oh, I think it's a bucket.

[306] Now, I think that it's a team of horses.

[307] A team of horses.

[308] While we're on it, can I just read you one riddle that I thought you would enjoy it?

[309] We love it.

[310] We love riddles.

[311] And I want you to know, I came in with a riddle that I'm hoping you've never heard.

[312] That's my favorite riddle of my whole life.

[313] It's not a riddle.

[314] No, not the lion.

[315] Dax made up a riddle.

[316] He calls a riddle, and he made it up.

[317] All right.

[318] Well, do you want to.

[319] Start with that or you want me to do mine?

[320] No, no, I want you to do yours.

[321] I'm not going to eat with a lion one.

[322] Speaking of something that doesn't have an answer.

[323] But I own it.

[324] I'm excited to hear.

[325] In the book, I go on various adventures and talk to different types of puzzle experts.

[326] So one are these scholars who study medieval riddles written by monks.

[327] And the catch is a lot of these riddles are really naughty.

[328] Oh, I like it.

[329] Yeah.

[330] So, okay, tell me what I am.

[331] My stem is erect.

[332] I stand up in bed, hairy down below.

[333] An attractive peasant's daughter grabs me, attacks me in my redness, plunders my head, and feels my encounter.

[334] This woman with braided hair gets her eye wet.

[335] To what am I?

[336] Well, I mean, right out of the gate, you're like a penis.

[337] The monks want you to think that.

[338] They monks are dirty, dirty people, and they want you to think that.

[339] But it is not.

[340] It is.

[341] Do you want me to tell you?

[342] It is.

[343] No, one more second.

[344] I feel like some sort of flour, like it's standing up in a flower bed.

[345] It is in the vegetable, like, plant area.

[346] Is it one that's in the common parlance now, or is this a medieval vegetable that's disappeared?

[347] No, it's still around.

[348] I mean, the key is her eye is wet.

[349] Oh, it's an onion.

[350] It's an onion.

[351] Oh, good job.

[352] Great riddle.

[353] Great riddle.

[354] It stood 900 years old.

[355] It stood the test of time.

[356] They are dirty.

[357] All right, I want to hear yours.

[358] Okay.

[359] All I ask is that you're honest with me if you've already heard it.

[360] All right.

[361] I like this riddle because the answer is fucking real.

[362] There's no horse shit here.

[363] This is a real answer.

[364] And I've asked, I don't know, a thousand people in the last 40 years and no one's gotten it and I didn't get it.

[365] But it's a right answer.

[366] Ooh, okay.

[367] Okay.

[368] A man walks into a hardware story, goes up to the clerk.

[369] He says, how much for one?

[370] Guy says 25 cents.

[371] He says, okay, how much for two?

[372] He says, 50 cents.

[373] And he said, okay, I'll take 327.

[374] And the guy said, okay, that'll be 75 cents.

[375] What's he buying?

[376] Have you ever heard that riddle?

[377] No, I have never heard it.

[378] Wait, did you say one is 25 cents or just one is 25?

[379] Yeah, yeah, 25 cents.

[380] Is it horse racing?

[381] Is he at a gambling parlor?

[382] Oh, I like that guess.

[383] That's not it.

[384] I said hardware story.

[385] Oh, yeah.

[386] But it's a front.

[387] It's a front for a bookie.

[388] Oh, this is complicated.

[389] Okay, so this is the 30s, I guess.

[390] This riddle takes place in the 30s.

[391] I'm trying to think of strategies to solve them.

[392] Uh -huh.

[393] Often it's like the number is a clue.

[394] It's not just a random number.

[395] So it's not 365.

[396] That would have been nice.

[397] And 327, not the number of cards in a deck.

[398] So that's not helping me. Basically, that was a dead end.

[399] I've seen your methodology here.

[400] Yeah, I'm learning.

[401] Another strategy I'm thinking of, like, a lot of these lateral thinking puzzles, it's like something that you don't know, this information that's been left out.

[402] Like, he was on an island and only ate albatross.

[403] And he thought it was like albatross.

[404] but it was really humans.

[405] Those are the ones I hate.

[406] So this is not that kind.

[407] No, this one is real.

[408] This could happen to you this afternoon.

[409] You know what?

[410] I am flailing miserably.

[411] So tell me, I'm interested.

[412] He's buying address numbers.

[413] Oh.

[414] It's good, right?

[415] Like when you hear it, you're like, you're pissed you didn't get it because it's good.

[416] It's real.

[417] That is the remark of a good puzzle.

[418] It's when you're annoyed at yourself.

[419] Yeah.

[420] You didn't get it.

[421] I love that.

[422] And you know what?

[423] It's got the mark of what I think.

[424] is part of a good puzzle, which is you have to totally shift the way you think about it.

[425] Next one I want to just touch down on, mostly because I haven't heard you talk about it, and I want to hear what the most interesting things were.

[426] Another thing you decided to do was to become the smartest man in the world by reading the entire Encyclopedia Britannica.

[427] Oh, wow.

[428] I did not succeed.

[429] I did succeed in that I read the encyclopedia.

[430] I did not become the smartest person in the world.

[431] How long did that take?

[432] It took like a year and a half.

[433] Yeah, it's a lot of words.

[434] It's 33 volumes.

[435] it's 44 million words.

[436] Like if you stack them up, it's like basically the height of an Olympic gymnast.

[437] What were some of the more obscure things?

[438] Well, that was the part of the problem is that the way our memory works or at least mine is that you remember things like opossums have 13 nipples.

[439] Like that's stuck in there or that René Descartes, the great philosopher, had a fetish for cross -eyed women, which at the time must have been very hard.

[440] Like now, I'm sure there's a website You know, there's a dating app that would just be great for him.

[441] Although in his defense, he's what, that's 1700s France?

[442] What time period is that?

[443] Yeah, 1700s, exactly.

[444] So, 1700s, France, certainly more gals who are cross -eyed, there's no way to fix it.

[445] So that helps his ante.

[446] People are getting kicked in the head with mules and shit.

[447] I mean, it is a gnarly...

[448] I bet there were per capita more cross -side gales, but here's another great question.

[449] They're coming too fast.

[450] When I would read that, I would immediately need to know more about him.

[451] Was his mother cross -eyed?

[452] Like, I'd have to read a fucking biography on him after learning that wonderful tidbit.

[453] It was interesting.

[454] It wasn't just a random fact.

[455] It was integral to his philosophy because he was trying to figure out, how does it decide what we like and what we're attracted to?

[456] Are we born with it?

[457] Or, like you say, was his aunt cross -eyed?

[458] And I don't think he ever got the answer.

[459] But it is a very interesting and relevant question.

[460] Why do we like what we like?

[461] And he died celibate.

[462] I'm teasing.

[463] You know, what have he never found a cross -ed?

[464] cross -eyed gale.

[465] But how good for her?

[466] There's some poor farm girl.

[467] Her fucking eyes are so cross.

[468] No one looks at her.

[469] No one likes her.

[470] Here comes this very celebrated intellectual.

[471] And he looks at her.

[472] He's like, oh, my God, what are you doing for dinner?

[473] And she's think, oh, this is Carrie.

[474] I'm getting pranked.

[475] No, you fucking loved her.

[476] He made some cross -eyed gales day.

[477] Another part of the book also featured cross -eyed women because the Mayans, according to the encyclopedia, would dangle a bead in front of their babies, so the babies would look at the bead and become cross -eyed, which sounds apocryphal to me, like, do you really become cross -eyed from looking at the bead?

[478] I love it because I think, you know, having one American standard of beauty is disastrous.

[479] So I love the fact that cross -eyed people, wall -eyed people, we should embrace it all.

[480] They're all beautiful in their own way.

[481] I mean, Kristen's kind of...

[482] Technically cross -eyed.

[483] Yeah, if Kristen gets tired, my wife, she's the best that pointed it out.

[484] We'll be watching something that she's in.

[485] She'll go, oh, that's the night we shot until 2 a .m. Watch this.

[486] My eyes are crossed as hell.

[487] Yeah, and like when we'll go through pictures of, like, you approve pictures when she does, like, shoots and stuff.

[488] Right.

[489] Always, like, double -check the eyes.

[490] Yeah.

[491] Would she consider, like, coming out as a spokesperson for...

[492] Oh, yeah.

[493] She's very open about it.

[494] We wouldn't be saying it if she wasn't super comfortable.

[495] She calls it her wonky eye.

[496] That's great.

[497] And she'll say, oh, my wonky eye was in full effect for this scene.

[498] Ah, I am delighted to hear it.

[499] She's trained it, though.

[500] That only happens if she allows it.

[501] He's exhausted.

[502] Yeah.

[503] That was one of the diseases of the encyclopedias that I had so many facts that I would insert them.

[504] And my wife started to punish me. She would find me $1 for every irrelevant fact I inserted into conversation.

[505] But it did remind me. I think I also read about Botox in the encyclopedia.

[506] and the original medical reason for Botox was to treat wall eyes and cross -eyes.

[507] And then they discovered they can do other parts.

[508] Yeah, I would be insufferable to be around if I was doing that thing.

[509] And it actually brings me back to the question I had about living biblically.

[510] And of course, it applies, as you just pointed out, to this.

[511] It's got to be rough on your family.

[512] Yeah, no, my wife is definitely patient.

[513] It depends on the project.

[514] So the puzzle one, she actually enjoyed.

[515] went to Spain and she was on my team and we competed in the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championship and it was a blast.

[516] Yeah, and she herself is employed as someone who puts on events and often has scavenger hunts as part of the thing.

[517] So she's a gamer.

[518] She is a gamer.

[519] Watching Adventures, thank you for bringing it up.

[520] But I'll just go back to the Bible one for one second.

[521] I mean, she hated the beard.

[522] There is a rule in the Bible.

[523] You might know you're not supposed to touch a woman when she's menstruating because she's impure.

[524] But if you take Leviticus really seriously, literally, if a woman sits in a seat, then the seat becomes impure.

[525] So my wife found that offensive and sat in every seat in our apartment while she was menstruating.

[526] So I literally had to stand for most of the year.

[527] That rule seems to have stayed around with very religious people.

[528] But there was another rule in the Bible that applied to men, that men for one day after their ejaculation are also impure.

[529] But that rule seems to have been forgotten.

[530] But I tried to follow that.

[531] I would, you know, if someone tried to shake my hand, I would say, well, can I ask you a question?

[532] Like, have you ejaculated in the last day?

[533] Oh, my God.

[534] Oh, my God.

[535] You would ask folks that.

[536] Have you ejaculated in the last 24?

[537] I had to.

[538] I mean, what do you?

[539] You didn't shake anyone's hand that year then.

[540] Well, no, because I was hanging out with a lot of new dads, and they just are not ejaculating.

[541] Well, they are They should be self -ejaculating Or is it only during coitus that it counts?

[542] No, no, anything.

[543] Anything counts.

[544] It's probably more.

[545] Anytime we have an excuse to talk about ejaculate, I am so excited.

[546] Yeah, thank you for allowing us.

[547] My pleasure.

[548] It was the Bible.

[549] I guess I should be thanking the Bible.

[550] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[551] We've all been there.

[552] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains.

[553] debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[554] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[555] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[556] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[557] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[558] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[559] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[560] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[561] What's up, guys?

[562] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[563] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[564] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[565] And I don't mean just friends.

[566] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[567] The list goes on.

[568] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[569] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[570] Okay.

[571] And then the other one I want to talk to, and then we're going full puzzles, is trying to become the healthiest man in the world and for 12 months dedicating yourself to exercise and diet.

[572] If ever there's a field of science, health and nutrition, There's no consensus on anything.

[573] Everyone has a conflicting point of view.

[574] Everyone's right.

[575] Everyone's wrong.

[576] Where did you start?

[577] Who do you believe first?

[578] What did you find out?

[579] Yeah, you're so right.

[580] It's so confusing.

[581] I was in terrible shape.

[582] I was what my wife called skinny fat.

[583] So, you know, I had sort of the body of a snake that had just eaten a goat or something.

[584] I got sick all the time.

[585] So she's like, you know, I don't want to be a widow in my 40s, you know, get into shape.

[586] So I decided to do what I did with the Bible.

[587] I bought all these books.

[588] I had a board of advisors, so doctors, nutritionists, and trainers, and I changed every part of my life.

[589] So like you said, the diet, the exercise, but it's not just that.

[590] It's also stress, sleep, sex, how you go to the bathroom, like, you know, the whole port -a -pot, the, um, squatty -potty.

[591] Squatty -potty.

[592] I was ahead of the curve on that.

[593] In fact, I had a gadget taking that to the extreme because it basically would turn.

[594] a developed toilet into a toilet from a developing country.

[595] It was like a board with a hole in it, and you would climb on top, and it is better for you.

[596] Full evac.

[597] Well, can I tell you guys, though, this is the common understanding of it.

[598] But what people don't bring into the equation is the variability of height.

[599] So the theory is, as young hominids, yeah, we squatted against trees to crap, or we just bent over and crapped.

[600] And now the toilet's got you at a much different angle than that.

[601] But if you're tall like me, on a normal toilet, I'm kind of in that position.

[602] My legs are too high up.

[603] You know what I'm saying?

[604] Like, Monica's, I don't know touch the floor when you're on the pot, right?

[605] Or you're just skimming it, maybe you get one on.

[606] My knees are up, like, above my waistline.

[607] You're already in a squat position, essentially.

[608] Because I'm too tall.

[609] So it needs an asterisk.

[610] But have you ever tried the squatty potty?

[611] I have.

[612] Okay.

[613] It's preposterous.

[614] My knees are up on my ears.

[615] No one ever shat like that.

[616] No early hominid shot like that.

[617] You are a lucky man. Okay, so what was your diet and did it evolve?

[618] Well, I tried like 20 different diets.

[619] In the end, I kind of agree with the Michael Pollan that you can't get too detailed about it because the science isn't there yet.

[620] And in fact, if you get super stressed, like if you say, I'm only going to certain restaurants and I'm not going to hang out with my friends, that's not healthy.

[621] Because having a close -knit group of friends that you do stuff with, that is super healthy.

[622] That is really important to your health.

[623] I think his three way to eat food, not like processed crap and mostly plants and not too much.

[624] One great device that I use is I try to eat from the fridge, not from the pantry.

[625] Good food, real food goes right.

[626] I love that you point that out because something transitioned to my health some years ago.

[627] And I will say I'm walking through my favorite store on planet Earth, so I'm not throwing shade on Costco.

[628] It's a great place.

[629] They have great benefits.

[630] It's great employee retention.

[631] I love that place.

[632] But I did realize at one point, the bulk of the store is things that can stay on the shelf indefinitely.

[633] And I just remember walking through there and thinking, well, this isn't really food, is it?

[634] The other stuff with the refrigerator, that's where I need to be walking around more.

[635] I too like Costco, but try not to do my food shopping there.

[636] Although they've got great vegetables and meat, I will add that.

[637] Great TVs.

[638] Great return policy.

[639] We're more of a Trader Joe's family.

[640] In fact, my wife listens to the Trader Joe podcast.

[641] Wonderful.

[642] I like her.

[643] She also listens to you.

[644] But when she's out of an armchair expert, she goes to Trader Joe's.

[645] That's her back.

[646] You might need to do a pop -up at Trader Joe's.

[647] I didn't realize there's a cross -pollination.

[648] Thanks for the insight.

[649] Absolutely.

[650] So did you try paleo?

[651] I did try paleo.

[652] I had a good time.

[653] And I also tried the paleo workout.

[654] This was early on in the paleo movement.

[655] So there were like, you know, 10 cave people in New York.

[656] We would go to Central Park and try to climb trees and like go on all fours and stalk squirrels.

[657] And it was hilarious.

[658] I had a great time.

[659] My feeling about exercise is after reading all the studies, anything is fine.

[660] Just do it.

[661] I was motivated by the 10 ,000 steps per day thing, but I've actually switched it because I got bored of that.

[662] My treadmill, that was one of the big things I changed.

[663] You wrote the whole book on treadmill, right?

[664] Yeah, and I still write and answer emails and talk on a treadmill, but I have it angled at about 11 degrees, and it keeps track of the vertical.

[665] So every day I try to go about the height of the Eiffel Tower, and if I do that for a year, I am going to walk to space.

[666] So I want to be with Bezos and space.

[667] So that's my goal for 2022, is I'm going to walk to space.

[668] That's amazing.

[669] I put it on Facebook, and I have a group now.

[670] We have like 30 spacewalkers.

[671] And you guys are welcome to join.

[672] How long a day is that treadmill walk?

[673] It's only like two hours.

[674] And you're going slow.

[675] I'm going slow, yeah, because I can't write or think when I'm...

[676] You just inadvertently asked a question, what things have you kept?

[677] So it sounds like you kept the exercise.

[678] I kept the exercise.

[679] I kept the eating, real food.

[680] I kept the not obsessing about my health, because there is an action.

[681] term, orthorexia, which I love, which means to be unhealthily obsessed with health.

[682] Like I said, if you can't go out to restaurants with friends, that's not healthy.

[683] I find that people who talk about their diet and their way of living has such a religious tone to me. And I think, oh, you guys don't know our religious part of our brain that helped us develop.

[684] It's been hijacked by this thing.

[685] I love that insight.

[686] And it's true, it's a lot about purity as well.

[687] Sin, toxins.

[688] So, yes.

[689] I totally agree.

[690] It changed the way I sleep.

[691] So I actually do go to bed early and try to wake up early -ish.

[692] And you've downsized your gossiping, it sounds like, permanently.

[693] And the gratitude was a big one.

[694] Like, I email my mom, something I'm grateful for every day.

[695] And when I'm going to sleep, I go through the alphabet and I try to be grateful for something about each letter.

[696] So, like, you know, A, tonight will be that I was on armchair expert.

[697] Oh, wonderful.

[698] That was one of the big takeaways from the Bible.

[699] I deeply relate in some way, if I think I understand you, which is like, I think it's my romantic self, right?

[700] Which is like, I get a fantasy about how something's going to be, and I want to experience it.

[701] I get bored quickly of things I've now done.

[702] I am always looking for a new adventure, and it's very romantic to me. And then I keep some of the things, right?

[703] But then they pile up, and sometimes I can get a little cumbersome.

[704] And I just wonder, do you ever feel like, oh, my God, my real addiction is just bettering myself?

[705] Accumulating things and bettering myself.

[706] And it too is constructive.

[707] I love that.

[708] That's a great point.

[709] As far as addictions go, it's okay.

[710] I'll take it.

[711] Yeah, I love to continue experiment.

[712] And that was one of my points that I try to make is everyone should be experimenting more.

[713] And I love that you do, Dax.

[714] Everyone should try and they don't have to grow a crazy beard and wear a robe.

[715] It could be a try new toothpaste every month.

[716] it'd go a different way to work.

[717] I'm actually doing an experiment this week that I'm very excited about.

[718] Anytime I'm alone, I'm going to talk to myself nonstop.

[719] And I love it.

[720] Wait, in service of what?

[721] To get sick of yourself.

[722] Like, this podcast has been helpful to me because I hear myself so much.

[723] I'm finally starting to have said enough shit.

[724] I'm not there, but it's gotten less.

[725] You know what I'm saying?

[726] What's the goal of you talking to yourself?

[727] I would say the two, benefits that I've found is one that when I start to have crazy negative thoughts which is a lot when I'm saying them out loud I can actually hear them and be like that's stupid that's a dumb thought so it's like sort of metacognition and being aware of your own thoughts yeah someone told us that we interviewed about CBT they told Monica like and me but say Monica yeah Monica's afraid of blank like actually use your own name in your thoughts It removes you a little bit so you can see it a little more objectively.

[728] Did you like that?

[729] Did it work?

[730] You know, I'm like you.

[731] I have so many things that have accumulated.

[732] I some drop off, okay?

[733] You got to watch and get coffee.

[734] Yeah.

[735] Yeah, yeah.

[736] Okay, I just wanted to hit you with the one I've been kind of ruminating on.

[737] I wonder if it would appeal to you.

[738] I lived in Detroit for 19 years.

[739] I lived in California for 27 odd years.

[740] My thinking changed fundamentally by being in a new place.

[741] I'm a much different person.

[742] I have a more liberal point of view.

[743] You know, I'm aware of the many changes that came just by imbibing a city, I guess.

[744] So I have this preoccupation, like, I still want one more of those.

[745] Like, I don't know if it's, I go to France and I get submerged there for six years, but I want one more way of thinking.

[746] Do you find that even going on a set for a couple of months, you're able to get something out of it, even if not a total mind change?

[747] Well, I love the novelty of it, of course.

[748] Like, everything's kind of new and different.

[749] I'm very attracted to novelty.

[750] But I mean, like, fundamentally, my thoughts are different.

[751] My identity is different.

[752] It would be lazy and easy for me to think, well, I've come to the place I like how everyone thinks, and now I enjoy it.

[753] I want to assume that there's yet a third point of view somewhere else that I will be grateful I learned to have as well.

[754] I wouldn't totally credit California.

[755] I mean, you might have come to this mindset otherwise.

[756] wise.

[757] And it's a lot about not just the place you're in, but the people you talk to.

[758] And so I'm very jealous that you get to talk to interesting people.

[759] And we're crazy grateful too, yeah.

[760] Actually, I would love to do that as one of my books, just live in different places.

[761] Visit every country has always been a dream.

[762] I have kids, so this is not happening for a while.

[763] Neither is trying every hallucinogen on earth.

[764] That's not happening until my kids are out of the house.

[765] I feel very lucky to live in New York, because when I was doing the book about the Bible, there was every denomination, every type of religion was here, except for snake handling.

[766] I had to go to Tennessee or Kentucky.

[767] I can't remember for snake handling.

[768] That you can't find.

[769] Okay, you're a smart guy.

[770] You went to Brown.

[771] You loved puzzles.

[772] Your launching off point for this book is really, really comical, and you'd have to already be a puzzling nerd to get it immediately, which is your big, great day in the sun was you had made it into the New York Times crossword puzzle.

[773] You were a clue.

[774] It's not going to get better for me. This was being on Jeopardy.

[775] Like I took a picture.

[776] I tweeted it is everything.

[777] But then your brother -in -law, I believe, was cruel enough to point out it was in the Saturday crossword puzzle.

[778] So, Monica, where does that take us?

[779] So first news is you're a clue.

[780] Yeah, that's so exciting.

[781] Second part is it's in Saturday.

[782] So what does that mean?

[783] Bummer, I'm not in Sundays.

[784] Slash Mondays.

[785] Mondays would say.

[786] say every idiot on planet Earth can get his name.

[787] Saturday says this is an obscure son of a bitch.

[788] Oh, I see.

[789] I see.

[790] Exactly.

[791] So my brother, he did congratulate me, but then he also pointed out, yeah, this is not necessarily a compliment.

[792] You are the absolute epitome of obscurity.

[793] And that's how my brain thinks too, A .J. I can find the brown lining in anything.

[794] And I focused on that, and I was so depressed.

[795] It went from the high to the low.

[796] And then I will say the happy ending to that anecdote is I told that story on a podcast, and it happened that one of the New York Times crossword creators was listening and decided to save me and put me in a Tuesday puzzle where I don't belong.

[797] Like you belong in a Tuesday.

[798] Dax is in a Tuesday blog.

[799] I am barely Saturday worthy.

[800] So that's how it starts.

[801] And you were a clue.

[802] I think you were a Wednesday, so you're good.

[803] I was a clue in the New York Times?

[804] Yes.

[805] It was a shepherd of parenthood.

[806] Oh.

[807] But you're Monday a material now.

[808] This was 2018.

[809] This is an amazing accolade.

[810] And I'm sure you will be again.

[811] Although the X is a hard letter, so.

[812] What are they going to put there?

[813] This DEC 25th holiday is a riot for kids.

[814] That's a good one.

[815] Perfect.

[816] X -Miss.

[817] Wow.

[818] They got to abbreviate within the clue to let you know it's an abbreviation.

[819] They could do expert and Dax all connected.

[820] Oh, I like it.

[821] Oh, my God.

[822] This is too much about me. No, you love puzzles, and you don't just love crosswords.

[823] Right.

[824] So, yeah, since I was a kid, I used to draw mazes on my living room floor that would take up the whole living room.

[825] So I love crosswords and mazes.

[826] And that's the book, is sort of 15 chapters on 15 types of puzzles.

[827] Let me hit you with the puzzles in case you.

[828] you're a puzzlier and you want to make sure your puzzle is in this book, it probably is.

[829] Crosswords, the puzzle of puzzles, the Rubik's Cube, anagrams, rebuses, jigsaws, mazes, math and logic puzzles, ciphers and secret codes, visual puzzles, Suduku and Kenken, chess puzzles, riddles, Japanese puzzle boxes, controversial puzzles.

[830] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, bang, boing.

[831] Cryptics, scavenger hunts and puzzle hunts, Infinite puzzles.

[832] Thank you for that.

[833] That was lovely.

[834] You go, I love puzzles.

[835] Write what you know, write what you love.

[836] I got to figure out how to write about puzzles.

[837] I love it.

[838] But then how do you turn it into the X -Games version of everything you do?

[839] Well, what I did was I tried to immerse myself in the puzzle world and meet the smartest, craziest, strangest people who are obsessed.

[840] Because each one has this wild subculture.

[841] So part of the book is actual puzzles that you can fill out.

[842] Part is like the science and history of puzzles and why I think puzzles can help save the world.

[843] But part of it is that I went on these adventures.

[844] I briefly mentioned I went with my family to Spain to compete in the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championship, which I didn't even know existed.

[845] What's a jigsaw puzzle as opposed to a cardboard puzzle?

[846] Oh yeah, that's just the name for any puzzle where you fit pieces together.

[847] So there are wooden jigsaw puzzles, there are cardboard jigsaw puzzles.

[848] I was a bit of a snob.

[849] It was one of the only genres of puzzles I didn't love.

[850] I thought it was, and this is going to sound snobby too.

[851] It's sort of like the Larry, the cable guy of puzzles.

[852] It's a little too broad for my tastes.

[853] But I was wrong.

[854] Throughout this process, I was converted because jigsaws can be amazing, subtle, like crazy, complicated, and fascinating.

[855] And as one of the adventures, I was looking through Google, and I saw that there was a world jigsaw puzzle championship.

[856] This is right before COVID.

[857] All of these countries had signed up.

[858] So there was Mexico, New Zealand, Uganda, and no U .S. No way.

[859] Wow.

[860] I know.

[861] And you don't have to have any prior victories or accolades?

[862] Well, that was funny.

[863] This was the first year.

[864] So I just sent in my name thinking I would have to go through all these rigorous trials.

[865] But they sent an email back like, you are Team USA.

[866] That's it.

[867] Oh, my God.

[868] Did you ever think you'd represent your country doing anything?

[869] I don't.

[870] No. It was super stressed.

[871] And I totally humiliated my country.

[872] I'm sorry.

[873] I apologize to all Americans because we came in second to last.

[874] I'm shocked you didn't come in last.

[875] These are people that, like, they weren't writing a book about it.

[876] Who did you beat?

[877] I don't want to shame anyone, but who did you beat?

[878] I think it was Portugal.

[879] Who won?

[880] Russia.

[881] Russia won.

[882] And there were like doping rumors slash jokes.

[883] Like Adderall?

[884] Yeah, Adderall.

[885] It was these four women from Siberia.

[886] They're grinding their teeth and chewing.

[887] gum and talking to anyone.

[888] I will say, this I am proud of in the book, that I wrote it months ago, I said I hate Vladimir Putin, like a paragraph on how much I hate them.

[889] But I said this was like an example of how when you meet people face -to -face, you know, they are not Val -Adamir Putin.

[890] It was jigsaw diplomacy, I called it.

[891] Like, you actually got to know the people and learn that they're human.

[892] That story always comes out with these Olympians.

[893] Like, you go there and you think our arch -nemesis is Russia.

[894] and then you recognize, oh, I probably have more in common with this Russian figure skater than any other human on the planet.

[895] We are the only two people that do this 12 hours a day since we are four.

[896] Like, we have more in common than I could ever have with anyone from New York, you know?

[897] Yeah.

[898] Part of the book is about sort of the deeper meaning of puzzles.

[899] And there's a guy named Cass Sunstein, who's a great legal scholar and scientist.

[900] You're shaking your head, you know, Cass.

[901] He wrote with Daniel Conneman, Daniel Conneman's newest book he co -wrote.

[902] and he's Samantha Power's husband.

[903] That's true.

[904] Way to come in with the fact.

[905] That is impressive.

[906] Did you read the encyclopedia?

[907] I'm going to because now I've got to keep up.

[908] But he did an experiment or research where he took people from all over the political spectrum, so very liberal, very conservative, and tried to figure out what could unite them.

[909] And one of the only things that did was doing a crossword puzzle together.

[910] So I really do think having a common goal to not a zero -sum game, if you work together.

[911] And that is one of my favorite parts about puzzles.

[912] Yeah.

[913] It happened regularly with chess champions where, like, they're representing their country.

[914] It's going to make or break the full branding of each country.

[915] The political powers that be send their warhorse in there.

[916] And they probably arrive feeling like they're meeting their enemy.

[917] And then they look at each other and they realize, we're the only two humans on planet Earth that live in our brain like this.

[918] They instantly know they have way more connection than they'll ever have with the president that sent them.

[919] Right.

[920] And there was ping pong diplomacy in China.

[921] We sent over ping pong players in the Nixon era.

[922] So, yeah, it is a great way to bond people and make us realize what we have in common.

[923] It's a great olive branch, yeah.

[924] Olive Garden branch.

[925] That's a really good callback.

[926] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[927] I just want to lay out kind of your interest in it, which is you're curious is why humans love this form.

[928] of mental gymnastics and how puzzles actually make us better thinkers and better people.

[929] Puzzles inspire us to engage in flexible thinking to tackle problems from new angles and perspectives to remain curious.

[930] I was relieved to see right out of the gates you dispel this notion that doing the crossword puzzles prolongs the onset of Alzheimer's or these things.

[931] Just any mental activity is probably good for it.

[932] There's nothing unique about it.

[933] Anything mental can help dispel and push off dementia, but puzzles to me are wonderful because it's all about curiosity.

[934] and cultivating this mindset, I call it the puzzle mindset, which is just being endlessly curious about everything, which is what you two do.

[935] You have the puzzle mindset.

[936] And I think the little puzzles train us how to solve the big puzzles.

[937] So first of all, they teach us techniques, you know, thinking backwards or thinking upside down or breaking down into chunks.

[938] There are all these hacks where you can learn how to solve problems in puzzles that apply to real life.

[939] And then the meta idea is just treating the world like a puzzle.

[940] That to me is wonderful because, you know, I'm like, you know, a New York liberal, typical.

[941] But if I'm in a debate with someone who's a Trump supporter...

[942] At your snake rally.

[943] Exactly.

[944] But instead of treating that like a war, like a debate, a war of words, treat it like a puzzle.

[945] Like, what do you really disagree on?

[946] What evidence could you present to them that could make them change your mind or vice versa?

[947] keep an open mind, keep flexible, and be open to it.

[948] And that is, to me, the only way through.

[949] We are not going to convince people by berating them and shoving facts in their face.

[950] It's all about treating life as a puzzle, treating societal problems as a puzzle to solve.

[951] It's very solution -oriented.

[952] So that is sort of the deeper thesis of the book.

[953] I like the idea of that, like a puzzle.

[954] Like, let's start at the end of the maze and work backwards.

[955] Right, right.

[956] The other thing about that is being open, having a flexible mind, which is crucial in solving any puzzle, and having a flexible mind about what you're afraid of.

[957] Is this a good thing to be afraid of?

[958] Is this a rational thing to be afraid of?

[959] And I talk about the dark side of puzzles, because if you're not flexible when solving a puzzle and you lock in on one solution, and I did this so many times, I did this in like a treasure hunt, I was so convinced that it was in Central Park because one of the clues had to do with, mice and I was like, oh, I just saw a little, Stuart Little 2, and it was in Central Park.

[960] It's got to be in Central Park.

[961] Totally wrong.

[962] It was like an upstate New York.

[963] But anyway, if you are not flexible and lock into something, it's called apophonia and seeing a pattern where none exists, that is a huge problem.

[964] And that's what QAnon is.

[965] Q &ON is a puzzle gone wrong.

[966] Q &N is these people have taken these puzzle pieces that don't fit together and say, this has got to be the solution.

[967] And we're all creative enough, by the way, to do it.

[968] Like, that's the thing.

[969] We're very creative beings, humans.

[970] And so you can find connective tissue, which is maybe not there.

[971] It happens to detectives all the time.

[972] I watch a lot of these documentaries, and it's like, well -intentioned detectives, they start with a premise, and they shouldn't.

[973] That's why your riddle is a good one.

[974] Like, I was so locked into that it was 327 units of something.

[975] And it wasn't.

[976] It was 3 -27.

[977] And that's the same with, you know, almost every.

[978] Every puzzle that I've tried, I talk about one of the prototypical puzzles, like, for instance, the difference between a straight -ahead problem and a puzzle that requires innovative thinking.

[979] And most problems now require innovative thinking.

[980] So a boring problem would be 25 plus 5 equals what.

[981] And, you know, it's 30.

[982] I think you knew that.

[983] I don't want to put you on the spot.

[984] You haven't listened to enough of this show.

[985] My favorite thing is fast, man. Yeah, and normally a little more complicated than that, but yeah.

[986] But a more innovative puzzle would be something like 33 plus 3 equals 30.

[987] So move one of number to make that statement true.

[988] It's a hard one, actually.

[989] I didn't get it.

[990] Wait, say that again.

[991] Say that again.

[992] All right.

[993] 33 plus 3 equals 30.

[994] And you have to move one digit, one of those numbers, to make that equation true.

[995] I can slide the numbers anywhere I want?

[996] Yeah.

[997] So I go 3 plus 0 equals 30.

[998] I mean, hold on.

[999] 30 plus 3 equals 30 that's it no no 33 plus 3 equals 30 yeah so 3 plus 30 equals 33 3 plus 30 equals 30 but that's moving two digits and you added a zero well I just swap them no I swap oh it's 33 33 yeah I take the 30 I take the zero from the answer oh from the answer from the answer are you saying I can only change in the integer yeah one integer exactly I can move one, and you're at 33 plus 3 equals 30.

[1000] I must get this.

[1001] Hold on.

[1002] Okay, that's good.

[1003] Can I write it down?

[1004] Am I lied to write it?

[1005] Of course.

[1006] You should write it down.

[1007] I prefer to do it in my head, but, okay, 33 plus 3 equals 30.

[1008] I'm not going to tell you the answer.

[1009] This is not even really a hit, but I was just talking about you have to totally reconceptualize.

[1010] Can I make my guess?

[1011] Oh, good.

[1012] Do it.

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] I think you make.

[1015] move the, I'm scared to say it, you move the one that's on top of the cross for plus and make it a minus.

[1016] Well, that is exactly the kind of thing.

[1017] So it's something unexpected.

[1018] It's not moving a digit, but that is not the answer I'm looking for.

[1019] Okay.

[1020] But I give you whatever a consolation price.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] 33 plus three.

[1023] This is sort of a hint, but not real.

[1024] You have to move a digit and even change it a little.

[1025] You have to change the size of the size of the.

[1026] the digit.

[1027] Change the side.

[1028] Now, see, now I feel like we're getting to some rules that I'll be pissed.

[1029] No, I think like maybe there's a flipping or an adding.

[1030] I have gotten a couple of pissed people.

[1031] Let me just walk you through my first instinct.

[1032] It's like, oh, I got to make that a negative three.

[1033] Yeah, but I can't do that.

[1034] Right.

[1035] And I can subtract three, and I can't use the zero from the answer.

[1036] If I could switch the zero in the three, it would be 33 plus zero equals 33.

[1037] But I can't swap them.

[1038] I just can only move one of them.

[1039] Do you both like puzzles?

[1040] Are you like escape rooms?

[1041] Yeah, I don't like jigsaw, but I like this kind.

[1042] They're better puzzles in the book.

[1043] If you want to like table that and I can give you better puzzles, then we can do that.

[1044] All right, hit me with the answer.

[1045] All right, what do you do is you've got to move the three up.

[1046] So it's three to the third power, which is 27 plus three equals 30.

[1047] Does that make you angry?

[1048] Doesn't make me. A little bit.

[1049] A little bit.

[1050] A little bit.

[1051] I like it.

[1052] It makes sense, but it kind of is introducing a rule.

[1053] That's true.

[1054] You're changing the meaning of the symbol in addition to moving it.

[1055] Right.

[1056] Okay.

[1057] It doesn't matter.

[1058] It's great.

[1059] It actually is.

[1060] The answer at least makes sense.

[1061] Well, the point is it's all about thinking outside of the box, which is a cliche, but a cliche that came from puzzles.

[1062] You might know the original.

[1063] outside the box was those nine dots.

[1064] Oh, I didn't know that.

[1065] It's the puzzle with nine dots, and you have to connect it with four lines.

[1066] And the only way to do it is to go way outside the box.

[1067] There's a great Hollywood one I'll give you.

[1068] Break a leg.

[1069] What's your explanation for that, the origin?

[1070] Oh, interesting.

[1071] I just thought it was like opposite day.

[1072] Like, you have to tell people something bad so that something good happens.

[1073] The first one I heard in order was the greatest exit in stage history was John Wilkes Booth shooting the president, then jumping off the balcony.

[1074] When he landed on stage, he broke it and then he left.

[1075] That was the best exit ever.

[1076] I like it.

[1077] So they're telling you to be like John Wilkes Booth.

[1078] The other one, and I think there's even a third I'm forgetting, is the leg is what you call the rope that takes the curtains back and forth.

[1079] So you'll get so many standing ovations that they'll have to move the curtains in and out so many times that you'll break the leg.

[1080] Right.

[1081] Well, I look forward to the fact check.

[1082] I'm very interested in the out of the box.

[1083] You got a lot to do.

[1084] It's weird.

[1085] This book came about because I love puzzles and I was actually working on another book for three months and I was miserable and I turned to puzzles.

[1086] But the other book is all about fact checking.

[1087] It was all about fact checking my life.

[1088] Like how do I know the world is round?

[1089] How do I know my wife loves me?

[1090] She says she loves me. And I love those phrases because all these wonderful explanations, someone just told me that flamenco dancing was from the mating dance of flamingos.

[1091] And I looked it up as totally not true.

[1092] But it's such a wonderful story.

[1093] Yeah, I like to make up puzzles or come up with, okay, you'll like this, I think.

[1094] When you were a kid, did you ever hear on the playground like, Mamma Mia, Papa Pia, baby got a diarrhea.

[1095] You know that one?

[1096] I did indeed.

[1097] Okay.

[1098] So my friend Aaron and I were talking about it, and we're like, what does it mean?

[1099] Where did that come from?

[1100] Why does everyone know Mamma Mia, Papa Pia baby got a diarrhea?

[1101] Right.

[1102] And so what I concluded, and we are going to take a time machine, if one's ever available, my hunch is that some Italians had a sick baby.

[1103] They took the Italian baby to the doctor.

[1104] The doctor looked at the baby.

[1105] He realized, there's nothing terminal going on here.

[1106] And he said, Mama Mia, Papa Pia.

[1107] A baby got a baby.

[1108] had diarrhea.

[1109] And they were like, oh, thank God.

[1110] And then they told many people this.

[1111] Mama Mia, Papa Pia.

[1112] My baby got diarrhea.

[1113] Why would they tell their friends, Mamma Mia, Papa Pia?

[1114] They're repeating what the doctor said.

[1115] Oh, the doctor said this.

[1116] They've got a great story to tell.

[1117] Got it, got it, got it.

[1118] And they basically became in the village.

[1119] It was like, don't sweat it.

[1120] It's just diarrhea based on a real event where the baby just had diarrhea.

[1121] It wasn't a big deal.

[1122] So we like some makeup origin stories.

[1123] I want to get, Monica, can you fact -check that?

[1124] Can you figure out if that's true?

[1125] Well, it reminds me in the Bible, one of the weirdest rules I ran across was in Leviticus, and it says, you can check it, it says that if two men are in a fight and the wife of one of those men grabs the testicles of the other man, then you have to cut off her hand.

[1126] I was saying, why would someone write this?

[1127] And I'm guessing this guy was in a fight and the other guys.

[1128] He grabbed him by the balls, and he's like, oh, this is never happening again.

[1129] This is like God is going to come down and say, this will never happen again.

[1130] I love that.

[1131] I'll go a step further, and that in the distraction of her grabbing his balls and him turning to say, stay out of it, the man was killed.

[1132] And it was a loved man in the village.

[1133] And they said, this shan't ever happen again.

[1134] And it got too specific, right?

[1135] Like, this isn't even going to happen again.

[1136] It happened then.

[1137] And they're like, we got to head this.

[1138] off at the pass.

[1139] I think that sounds very reasonable.

[1140] Well, you hit me really quick with the Japanese puzzle box builders, because that had to be a really neat culture to just time travel, too.

[1141] I went to Japan and visited, like, the headquarter where it all started.

[1142] They're amazing.

[1143] They are these wooden boxes that you have to spin or turn upside down and move all of these slats, and it's become a cult because they're beautiful.

[1144] So people pay thousands of dollars, up to $50 ,000 for these boxes.

[1145] Russian oligarchs were really into him.

[1146] And Darren Aronofsky, who you may know or have had on the show.

[1147] That is crazy.

[1148] This is a simulation moment.

[1149] We were interviewing someone earlier today.

[1150] She had a very horrific childhood.

[1151] She was four years old.

[1152] She said, everyone was singing the wheels on the bus go round and round.

[1153] I was a little distracted.

[1154] He said, yeah, well, you'd already lived a Darren Aronovsky movie.

[1155] That was hours ago.

[1156] That is crazy.

[1157] That's weird.

[1158] First time his name was ever said on the podcast, and I was being said a second time.

[1159] Well, he is obsessed with mystery and puzzles, and he commissioned one of the great Japanese puzzle makers to make a desk that was actually 20 puzzles inside the desk.

[1160] So to open the drawers, you have to solve these complicated puzzles.

[1161] So, you know, if you want a stapler, it's not like the most practical.

[1162] But if you want this amazing work of art. And the guy who did it is a legend, and it took him four years.

[1163] It was like an Aronovsky movie.

[1164] He almost went insane while making the desk.

[1165] He talked to me about how he cut off access to all friends.

[1166] a hobbies, and he just obsessed about the desk.

[1167] So I love that.

[1168] I mean, if you spend that much of your life on something to hand it over.

[1169] Right.

[1170] The good part is Darren is actually very nice, and we'll tell him, like, you know, David Blaine just came over, and he loves the desk.

[1171] So that sustains him.

[1172] He gets all of these emails about all of these amazing people who love his desk.

[1173] Oh, my gosh.

[1174] So that was the Japanese puzzle boxes.

[1175] But, yeah, let me just give you a couple to wrap up.

[1176] I've got nothing, so, you know, I'm happy to say it.

[1177] Well, no, you've got to talk to yourself incessantly.

[1178] Yeah, you miss yourself, I bet.

[1179] You're talking to us.

[1180] Maybe you like this type of puzzle I talk about.

[1181] It's called Ditloids, and it's not very popular, but I think it should be more popular.

[1182] It's where you have a phrase that starts with a number, but then you're only given letters.

[1183] So, for instance, 5 ,280, F in...

[1184] M, 5 ,280 F in a M. 5 ,280 feet in a mile.

[1185] Exactly.

[1186] So that's an example.

[1187] Oh, I like this.

[1188] I like this.

[1189] Oh, cool.

[1190] So this might be up your alley.

[1191] Well, it obviously is because you got it immediately and didn't even know the instructions.

[1192] Oh, my God, it was exciting.

[1193] All right.

[1194] You ready?

[1195] Can I give you just a handful?

[1196] 20 ,000 L under the S. 20 ,000 leads under the C. Nice, nice, nice, nice.

[1197] I don't know if I really got it.

[1198] You got it.

[1199] You got it.

[1200] 52C and a D plus two Js.

[1201] There are also two Js in there.

[1202] 52 cards in a deck plus two Jokers.

[1203] Exactly.

[1204] Nicely done.

[1205] This is fun.

[1206] These are great.

[1207] You are good.

[1208] That's great.

[1209] You are good.

[1210] These are a little harder.

[1211] I don't know if I got 31F at BR.

[1212] 31F at B .R. At B .R. At is the at sign?

[1213] No, no, just regular A .T. 31 flavors at Baskin -Robbins.

[1214] Wow.

[1215] That was impressive.

[1216] Oh, my God.

[1217] Good job.

[1218] Wow.

[1219] Wow, that feels good.

[1220] Fuck, hit me one more time.

[1221] I'm almost there.

[1222] I'm almost not going to be able to shake anyone's hand tomorrow.

[1223] I literally don't remember what this one is.

[1224] Good one.

[1225] I missed that for a second.

[1226] How about this one?

[1227] 14D in an F. 14D in an F. 14 days in a fortnight?

[1228] Oh my God, Monica, nicely done.

[1229] Is that it?

[1230] Yeah, girl.

[1231] Double high five for that.

[1232] That is wonderful.

[1233] Hot and smart, bachelors.

[1234] So there's Dittloids for you.

[1235] Those are fun.

[1236] How do I spell Dittloids?

[1237] I got to look this up.

[1238] D -I -T -L -O -I -D -S.

[1239] There are other names for it, but I am a fan.

[1240] That's what I love, finding all these weird genres that I didn't know about.

[1241] Days in a fortnight, girl.

[1242] Nicely done.

[1243] Nicely done.

[1244] 31 flavors.

[1245] I hope you're not on your men's.

[1246] I just smacked your hand.

[1247] Luckily, no. We've got a couple weeks.

[1248] That was really fun.

[1249] Dittloids.

[1250] Guys, get this book.

[1251] I'm so excited to dive in.

[1252] Let me hit you with the punchline.

[1253] There is a hidden puzzle within the book, cumulatively.

[1254] Really?

[1255] And the first reader who cracks it or figures it out will be given 10 ,000.

[1256] $10 ,000 real dollars.

[1257] That is true.

[1258] I didn't want to be a total dick and also I think there's some legal issues.

[1259] So I didn't want people to have to buy the book to enter the contest.

[1260] So the hidden code is actually in the introduction of the book, which is online for free.

[1261] So you can look at it on the puzzlerbook .com.

[1262] Hopefully you like the intro so much.

[1263] You're like, oh, I got to buy this.

[1264] But even if you don't, that's where the code is.

[1265] And once you find the pass code, you put it into the box on the puzzler .com and it opens into this wild bunch of really fascinating hard puzzles that I didn't write.

[1266] These are great puzzles by Greg Pliska and a bunch of other people.

[1267] It's so cool.

[1268] And I literally, when I read that, I thought, well, ethically, I'm not even allowed to think of this because I have an advanced copy.

[1269] This is already unfair.

[1270] So we already have to rule out people who got advanced copies.

[1271] No one can win before this airs or you give out the website.

[1272] Now, this is getting so complicated.

[1273] The lawyers are making overtime.

[1274] Your version actually, I think, is missing the secret code.

[1275] Oh, no. Well, that's great.

[1276] We'll go buy it when I was up.

[1277] Also, thanks for telling me that so I didn't kill myself trying to find a fucking code that's not there.

[1278] Can I tell you one of my favorite puzzles that I talk about in the book is in the Baltimore Sun last year they had a spot the difference puzzle and it was a picture of two boys brushing their teeth and they had to print a correction the next day.

[1279] We are very sorry that the spot the difference pictures were actually the identical pictures.

[1280] And there are all these people who just have been hours.

[1281] There's probably three or four suicides that night.

[1282] That's how I felt with wordle the other day.

[1283] There was a very obscure wordle and I was like people around the country are pissed.

[1284] They're pissed today.

[1285] Yeah, comment on the zeitgeistee.

[1286] phenomena of Wordle.

[1287] I'm a big fan.

[1288] And actually, the book had closed when Wordle hit.

[1289] I opened the book up again and inserted the word, wordle.

[1290] At night, I do the Times Crossword and Wordle.

[1291] So Wordle is in the book, one word.

[1292] But I am a huge fan.

[1293] I like it.

[1294] I think it's, like we said, it's a good uniting, like on my Twitter feed instead of vitriol and an uninformed opinion.

[1295] There are people like, oh, I got this on Whartle.

[1296] And I also love the creativity of the wordal spin -offs, like Loodle, where it's like boner is one of the answers.

[1297] Ooh, I like that.

[1298] This is so exciting and fun.

[1299] I have two last questions.

[1300] One, is there a puzzler stereotype?

[1301] Like, first I would imagine, you'd have to be, I don't want to use the word smart, but.

[1302] Creative thinker.

[1303] Right.

[1304] Here's my least generous assessment I could give knee -jerk.

[1305] Well, everyone that loves puzzles is fucking beaten off on how smart they, are.

[1306] They want to constantly be proving how smart they are.

[1307] It's so goddamn important to them to have some data that they're smart.

[1308] So that would be like my least charitable.

[1309] Yeah.

[1310] No, that is the worst kind of puzzler.

[1311] Puzzlers should not be used to show off.

[1312] They should be used, like I said, for curiosity and fun.

[1313] And of course, the stereotype is like very nerdy people.

[1314] But, you know, you like escape rooms.

[1315] You are not nerdy.

[1316] Oh, can I say one last thing that is a bad, I wouldn't say stereotype because it's true, but apparently in my research, I found it at almost every escape room, there's this one guy who's famous for coming in every week with a different woman and pretending it's his first time at the escape room.

[1317] Damn press.

[1318] Wow, you know, you know how to, you know the NATO alphabet, so I guess I do want to have sex with you.

[1319] I guess the thinking there.

[1320] But that's a bad stereotype.

[1321] Some most people I found in the puzzler community, super nice.

[1322] Yes, nerdy, but good nerdy.

[1323] I'll pay a waiter to come over and drop the hardware store riddle on a group of new people, and then I'll solve it really quick.

[1324] I've never done that, but that should be a move of mine.

[1325] And then I would love it if you could take us out with a riddle.

[1326] Do you have another riddle up your sleeve?

[1327] I do.

[1328] Hold on.

[1329] So, yes, your book, which is so fun, I think even if you're not a puzzle, you'll love it.

[1330] The Puzzler.

[1331] One man's quest to solve the most baffling puzzles ever From crosswords to jigsaws to the meaning of life The puzzler you've got to get this book Okay, take us out strong Oh wait, we teased it Oh yeah, you got to So here's a riddle That I decided what was right He made this up I made this up This has like multiple answers But presents it as if it's a real riddle Yep, I know the right answer You are in a cage an 8 by 8 by 8 by 8 by a cage.

[1332] There is a male lion in the corner.

[1333] It's sleeping and you have 30 seconds before it wakes up.

[1334] What do you do?

[1335] You cannot get out of the cage.

[1336] Is there someone else in the cage you could throw at them?

[1337] No. No, yeah, right.

[1338] Just get them full.

[1339] It's just you.

[1340] You're naked.

[1341] You have no tools.

[1342] It's just you.

[1343] And you're in 8 by 8 cage.

[1344] and the tiger, I mean, the lion is sleep.

[1345] Thank you for treating this so sincerely.

[1346] He's thinking of it in a real real way.

[1347] It is very important.

[1348] It is.

[1349] You may find yourself in this position.

[1350] I mean, I'm guessing this is not the answer because it's not a very, you know, fun or creative answer.

[1351] It's like, you know, to try to put the lion in a chokehold and just like, you know, choke it out.

[1352] I like that approach.

[1353] I wouldn't say that that would qualify as a riddle.

[1354] Please don't get hung up on that portion.

[1355] Okay.

[1356] Do you want to know what you do?

[1357] Yes.

[1358] Yes, I do.

[1359] You immediately pluck its eyeballs out.

[1360] You can do that very easily.

[1361] But you don't sever them.

[1362] You let them stay connected so that when he awakes, he'll be staring down at the ground.

[1363] It'll be so disorienting for him.

[1364] And then you have to immediately put your finger in your butt and rub it in his nose so that he also will be rendered useless.

[1365] I know I added that one recently.

[1366] That way it can't use its power of smell and it will have no sight.

[1367] and then you crawl up, you get high in the cage, and you try to wait it out.

[1368] That is an interesting riddle.

[1369] It's not a riddle.

[1370] It's Dax trying to tell people how to escape from a line.

[1371] Is there really a riddle there or that was it?

[1372] Yeah, that's the only way you could possibly survive.

[1373] So there's one answer.

[1374] You have to admit it's a pretty good strategy.

[1375] It is one I have never heard before.

[1376] I have never heard that riddle.

[1377] No one has ever come up with that.

[1378] Yeah, you hadn't even heard the fingers up the buff heart.

[1379] Yeah, that was brand new.

[1380] And I've heard that quote riddle.

[1381] Yeah, because someone pointed out that they could be able to smell you, even though their eyes were disarranted.

[1382] Okay.

[1383] Okay, I'm actually not a huge Havit fan, but I know most people are.

[1384] So this one, we can end on like a more like profound note.

[1385] Ooh.

[1386] No offense.

[1387] It's not ripping the eyeballs and sticking the finger up the butt.

[1388] So it can't save your life this riddle is what you just said.

[1389] It's a little more.

[1390] This two shall pass.

[1391] It's a little more like that it sounds like.

[1392] That's why I chose it.

[1393] along the lines of this two shall pass.

[1394] So this thing, all things devours, birds, beasts, trees, flowers.

[1395] It gnaws iron, bites seed, grinds hard stones to meal.

[1396] It slays kings.

[1397] It ruins towns and beats down high mountains.

[1398] So what is that?

[1399] I know it.

[1400] Not jealousy.

[1401] No. And it's not an onion.

[1402] Is that your guess?

[1403] Is that your final guess?

[1404] I guess.

[1405] Time.

[1406] It's time.

[1407] There you go.

[1408] She said humans.

[1409] I like that, too.

[1410] Time is the more profound answer.

[1411] It is.

[1412] No one beats time.

[1413] But, yeah, humans do slay kinks and they strip mine mountains.

[1414] So I accept it.

[1415] I'm unlike most puzzle people.

[1416] I like multiple answers.

[1417] People say that about you.

[1418] They say, hey, Jay, he's a good man. He'll accept nearly any answer to a riddle.

[1419] Well, that was fun.

[1420] Yeah, this was a really, really fun episode.

[1421] I hope everyone checks out, the Puzzler.

[1422] If you do a second edition of this, you can use the Lion Riddle.

[1423] It's bulletproof.

[1424] I will give you full credit, though.

[1425] There's only one answer, and everyone will agree, except for Monica and you, and everyone else I've told it to.

[1426] AJ, thanks so much for being with us.

[1427] This was a blast.

[1428] Thank you.

[1429] I had a blast as well, so it was a true honor.

[1430] And hi to your wife, and thank her for listening to both the Trader Joe's podcast and ours.

[1431] Be well, my friend.

[1432] That was so great.

[1433] I can't wait for your next book.

[1434] Well, thank you.

[1435] And I can't wait for the fact -checking.

[1436] I love the fact -checking portion.

[1437] Oh, thanks.

[1438] Yeah, we'll get into it.

[1439] All right.

[1440] Be good.

[1441] Bye -bye.

[1442] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact -check with my soul -made Monica Padman.

[1443] This is fun because this is a time travel fact -check.

[1444] This is a time -travel fact.

[1445] Yes.

[1446] So, occasionally we'll have a guest.

[1447] They will ask, can you hold it for?

[1448] couple weeks or three weeks and you're pretty accommodating i'll say i try to make everyone happy yes you do you do a great job of it so this was one of these cases where we actually recorded the fact check for this three weeks ago yeah a few weeks ago something like that few weeks ago but we liked the fact check we're going to re -record it because it's uh it's not timely well we didn't know the results of the election even right right right yeah yeah so you know just forgive us we don't know a lot of things about present day life which is hopefully fun for you yeah Yeah, well, you can laugh at our ignorance.

[1449] But we're going to keep it anyway.

[1450] So it's a little dated, but who gives a shit?

[1451] Are you tired?

[1452] What time do you wake up?

[1453] Eight.

[1454] Okay.

[1455] It's not bad.

[1456] I woke up all weekend.

[1457] We were at a wedding.

[1458] And I woke up all weekend at 7 a .m. Why?

[1459] I'm used to it from taking the kids of school.

[1460] Copy.

[1461] 7 a .m. why do I wake?

[1462] And then Sunday I was exhausted.

[1463] Boy, was I exhausted.

[1464] It was a hefty weekend.

[1465] It was a hefty weekend.

[1466] And then, so what I did is I slept.

[1467] Because it's spring break for the kids, I don't have to take them to school.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] I slept until 9 .20 this morning.

[1470] That's lovely.

[1471] And I woke up with a, like, a level of gratitude for having slept that long.

[1472] It had to be nine and a half hours I got last night.

[1473] Maybe, fucking, maybe 10.

[1474] Maybe 12.

[1475] Maybe 22 hours I got last night.

[1476] And I just woke up feeling like, oh, my God, I got money in the bank.

[1477] That's fun.

[1478] Fuel in the tank.

[1479] It was great.

[1480] Good.

[1481] I'm a little tired, though, because of it.

[1482] You know how it happens.

[1483] Sometimes you ever sleep.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] You get a little tired.

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] So, yes, we were at a really fun wedding, one of our closest, two of our very, very close friends.

[1489] And then they also did a beach day on Sunday.

[1490] Right.

[1491] So big weekend and then beach day, and it was hot.

[1492] Yeah.

[1493] It was hot.

[1494] You bet.

[1495] And a beach day is enough on a weekend.

[1496] Like if you do nothing on Saturday and you do a beach day on Sunday, it was a big weekend.

[1497] It was a big weekend.

[1498] But you do rehearsal on Friday.

[1499] You do bowling, then you do wedding, reception, dancing.

[1500] Dancing, queens.

[1501] Holly, did you go Saturday night?

[1502] I hear some people went pretty late.

[1503] Yes, so the wedding ended at 11.

[1504] It was at a shout -out, Calamigos Ranch.

[1505] Beautiful venue.

[1506] What a nice venue.

[1507] For people who might be confused, yes, I had two weddings, two weekends in a row.

[1508] Yeah, it is confusing.

[1509] Both were just top -notch.

[1510] It's hard to do.

[1511] It is.

[1512] It's really hard to pull off, and everyone did it.

[1513] I'm so impressed.

[1514] So the wedding ended at 11, and then, of course, talk of, okay, what next?

[1515] Where will we go?

[1516] What to do?

[1517] Do we go to the lobby?

[1518] Do we go to the spa bar?

[1519] But then it was like, spa bars probably closed.

[1520] Oh, no, wait.

[1521] Spar bars open till 12.

[1522] Yay!

[1523] Yeah, so there's lots of back and forth.

[1524] During this back and forth, of course, my feet hurt.

[1525] Okay, because you're in heels.

[1526] Yes, and I think, I think I'm done for the evening.

[1527] Great evening.

[1528] And I feel done now.

[1529] Yeah, you're a little mouse.

[1530] And our friend, Amy, sweetest angel on earth.

[1531] The nicest.

[1532] It was like, you're not leaving.

[1533] Okay.

[1534] She stole the phone out of my hand and ran off.

[1535] Oh, my God.

[1536] Great move.

[1537] Yes, because you without your phone...

[1538] What am I going to do?

[1539] I have to have it.

[1540] That's right.

[1541] You're going wherever you need to go to get that thing back.

[1542] So I was like, oh, my God.

[1543] Okay, well, minimally I have to go track down wherever Amy is and grab my phone back.

[1544] But in the meantime, we're getting lots of disinformation, okay, spa bar, lobby, Amy and Ryan's room, spa bar again, lobby.

[1545] So it's all over the place.

[1546] Finally, Amy meets back up.

[1547] She says, I'm sorry, I immediately felt bad.

[1548] Of course.

[1549] She can't even do a prank without feeling bad.

[1550] Oh, ding, ding, ding.

[1551] We'll have to talk about your prank in a minute.

[1552] Oh, I know.

[1553] It's earmark.

[1554] So got my phone back, went to my room.

[1555] So I probably was back at the room at like 1145.

[1556] Okay, so on the earlier side for that group.

[1557] That's right, because I think that the party fully wrapped up around three.

[1558] Three a. Yeah.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] I don't have the stamina anymore for that kind of thing.

[1561] No, I get too tired.

[1562] I'm impressed by those who can do it.

[1563] All right, let's get right into the prank.

[1564] So just to remind people, you lost your credit card in your yard at your new house.

[1565] I immediately canceled it before looking for it.

[1566] Immediately canceled it.

[1567] Then our mutual neighbor brought it to my house because they know I know you.

[1568] And then I had your credit card.

[1569] So then I brought it to you.

[1570] He said, oh, I don't even need it because I canceled it.

[1571] So then I went in the house that day.

[1572] I threw it in my closet.

[1573] and then my sister saw on Friday that your credit card was laying in my closet.

[1574] Uh -huh.

[1575] So she brought it to the wedding.

[1576] Oh, that's how it happened.

[1577] I didn't, okay.

[1578] Yes, so.

[1579] Sweet, Carly.

[1580] The sweetest.

[1581] So she brought the credit card, and now I have the credit card at the reception.

[1582] So I'm like, this is going to be great.

[1583] So I see you're coming from across the thing, and it seems like you're coming.

[1584] Congratulate you for officiating and doing a very good job.

[1585] Thank you so much.

[1586] much and I threw it on the ground before you got there and what's great is you didn't see it when you stepped up and you stepped right over it so it was literally under your dress you're like what's that is that yours yeah and I looked down and I was so confused it was your credit card it was my credit card and I was like oh my god I did it again like I dropped my new credit card where would it have been in your dress exactly and then also my immediate thought is I'm how How am I going to get out?

[1587] Dax is going to be so mad and annoyed that I just can't keep control of myself, that I'm just throwing my credit card willy -nilly everywhere.

[1588] I don't know why you have those thoughts.

[1589] Like, we had a whole thing about your credit card, but I just found it amusing that you didn't walk back to look for it.

[1590] Not, I didn't dislike you, and I wasn't disappointed me. I know, I just don't like to give you reasons to not like me. Okay.

[1591] And that could have been one.

[1592] Well, I permanently like you, so just no, okay.

[1593] And then I picked it up.

[1594] I just stared at it for a second.

[1595] And then second wave of confusion, because I did know, like, that's old because of the expiration date.

[1596] Oh, the expiration date.

[1597] So that's what bummed me out is I was, I thought the prank could go on for a little longer.

[1598] I thought I had more legs because I was acting really confused how you were, where were you holding that, which is what I would do.

[1599] I'm a pervert.

[1600] So I'd be like, what are you keystering that thing?

[1601] Where was it?

[1602] Uh -huh.

[1603] Uh -huh.

[1604] But you pretty soon notice it was the wrong date.

[1605] Yeah.

[1606] Okay.

[1607] Okay.

[1608] So I got it back.

[1609] You got it back.

[1610] I got it back.

[1611] Yep.

[1612] Then a little later in the reception, I saw that you were engaged in a pretty deep conversation with one of our previous guests, Natalie Porman.

[1613] That's right.

[1614] And I walked by and I just slid the credit card on the table you were both leaning on.

[1615] And then I walked away.

[1616] I didn't even get to witness this.

[1617] So I'm in the middle of talking to Natalie and her husband, Benjamin.

[1618] And all of a sudden, Liz, it got so convoluted.

[1619] Oh, my God, I love it.

[1620] Liz, a groomswoman.

[1621] Monica, your credit card, don't forget.

[1622] Wonderful.

[1623] Oh, my God, that's even better.

[1624] Okay.

[1625] Your credit card, I just don't want you to lose it.

[1626] Yeah, now again, you feel like you're reckless.

[1627] This fucking credit card.

[1628] Yes, because, again, yes, I was like, wait, did I take it back?

[1629] And now I've lost it again.

[1630] And then, you know, I look over and Natalie's kind of looking at me like, oh, yeah, like, don't lose that.

[1631] You're irresponsible.

[1632] Yes.

[1633] And I was like, oh, no, no, no, this is a prank.

[1634] And then I had to tell her the whole thing, and I'm sure she didn't care.

[1635] And then you got it again.

[1636] The crescendo.

[1637] Also, why did I give it back to you?

[1638] I think I was getting it from you.

[1639] I don't think you ever willingly or knowingly gave it back to me. But, like, in the midst of reporting what just happened, I would get it back.

[1640] So then, now is the next day.

[1641] Yep.

[1642] I had low expectations.

[1643] What I was going to do is just throw it in front of your hotel.

[1644] door.

[1645] That was my point.

[1646] That's why I had it on me, right?

[1647] So it's the next day.

[1648] I'm walking across this huge place to go sign the wedding documents to make it official.

[1649] I don't know what you're up to.

[1650] It's like 10 .30 the next day.

[1651] So I'm going to throw it in front of your door and then I knock and then if I hear footsteps, I'm going to run away.

[1652] Okay.

[1653] I knock.

[1654] I don't hear any footsteps.

[1655] So I'm like, well, I don't want to leave it here because I don't really know if you can misconstrue, you know, whatever.

[1656] So I grab it.

[1657] I'm like, oh, fuck, that didn't work.

[1658] I'm actually kind of disappointing.

[1659] So I walk for about five, ten more minutes across this campus and there's a point on the campus where I'm up high.

[1660] You're on like a balcony.

[1661] I'm on a balcony.

[1662] It's like the change of the earth is such that you're on the ground floor but then you've got walk down these long stairs and be in the parking lot of the place.

[1663] Well, by God, I turn the corner and from the birds I view I see you, Molly and Jess are all walking across leaving a restaurant.

[1664] A restaurant.

[1665] And I'm like, oh my God, yes.

[1666] I throw it over the fucking railing of this thing, there happens to be an hotel employee that I can't even see him.

[1667] He's like out of sight for me. He's like sucked up against the wall, so I don't even see that he's in the mix.

[1668] He sees a credit card on the ground.

[1669] Does he see a credit card fall from the sky?

[1670] Like...

[1671] I don't know what he saw, but the most important thing is he picks up the credit card right as you guys are walking next to him.

[1672] He says, ma 'am!

[1673] Yeah.

[1674] Ma 'am!

[1675] And I'm not obviously paying any attention.

[1676] I'm very unobservant.

[1677] I'm walking, mocking.

[1678] He really has to scream for me. Ma 'am, ma 'am, ma 'am.

[1679] Is this your credit card?

[1680] And I look over it.

[1681] I was like, you have got to be kidding me. You've got to be kidding me. And every time it happened, I thought I did it.

[1682] Like every single time for at least five seconds, I'm like, how did I do this again?

[1683] Oh, my God.

[1684] The fact that a stranger was handing you your credit card in the middle of nowhere, I'm nowhere to be seen.

[1685] I know.

[1686] It couldn't have been better.

[1687] Man, that made my whole day.

[1688] It was very, very funny.

[1689] I had my credit card back, so I doubt this can happen again.

[1690] Oh, we'll see, won't we?

[1691] And do you have your credit card back?

[1692] I don't know.

[1693] There's a good chance I've lost it.

[1694] Holy shit, but what a great weekend.

[1695] Beautiful fun weekend.

[1696] Great, great weekend.

[1697] Full of pranks.

[1698] You officiated, you did a beautiful job.

[1699] Thank you so much.

[1700] You talked about the aliens.

[1701] Yeah, looking at us, little humans.

[1702] Yeah, and it's an eye.

[1703] I also previously talked about the aliens in Callie's wedding.

[1704] We didn't even talk about it, but we talk about it all the time.

[1705] Right.

[1706] I did that at Callie's because it's a special thing to talk about, I think.

[1707] But also because Max is obsessed with space.

[1708] Oh, my God.

[1709] What a dingles.

[1710] Yeah, it was a ding, ding, ding.

[1711] And because their rehearsal dinner was the theme that no one knew except special people was Space Garden.

[1712] Oh, my God.

[1713] There was an Easter egg at the?

[1714] Yes.

[1715] Oh, my gosh.

[1716] Anyway, so you did a beautiful job.

[1717] Oh, thank you.

[1718] Ryan and I had the pleasure of emceeing that wedding.

[1719] That was a new experience.

[1720] It was fun.

[1721] You did a great job emceeing.

[1722] You were nervous about it, and you were fucking the life of the party.

[1723] Thanks.

[1724] Yeah, you did a great job.

[1725] Okay.

[1726] It's getting to some puzzle facts.

[1727] Yeah, okay.

[1728] That's a ding, ding, ding because it was Laura's wedding, and Laura is the puzzler.

[1729] Queen puzzler.

[1730] She does insane jigsaw puzzles.

[1731] She does a crossword every day.

[1732] The Princess of Puzzles.

[1733] That's what they call her.

[1734] That's what they call her.

[1735] P -O -P.

[1736] A little other quick thing I want to add.

[1737] So we had to be there for pitchers at 3 .30.

[1738] And I did not want to hold anyone up on this weekend.

[1739] Right.

[1740] So I'm about to walk up the door.

[1741] I button my pants, which, mind you, this tucks I'm in was tailored to me 10 years ago at 185.

[1742] Oh, wow.

[1743] And I'm 210.

[1744] Okay.

[1745] I button it, boom.

[1746] It fucking blows.

[1747] Oh, shit.

[1748] And I'm looking at it.

[1749] I'm like, I can't pull this off.

[1750] Like, it's so obvious.

[1751] Oh, no. My pants are open.

[1752] There's no belt in a tux, right?

[1753] Yeah.

[1754] I'm like, oh, my God.

[1755] What a fuck?

[1756] And Kristen's not there?

[1757] No one's there.

[1758] I found the sewing kit, and I sewed the button back on in record speed.

[1759] And we were the first ones at the pitchers.

[1760] I am impressed.

[1761] Thank you.

[1762] You sewed the button back on and then you were able to button it back?

[1763] Yes, it held all night.

[1764] It's sturdy as shit.

[1765] I had tons of knots, lots of back and forth.

[1766] Oh, my God.

[1767] Amazing.

[1768] I bet I have that button.

[1769] and back on in five minutes.

[1770] I'm impressed.

[1771] So it went from I'm dead, the whole weekend's ruined, I can't officiate this wedding, to I've persevered.

[1772] Good job.

[1773] Pronounce that word for me?

[1774] Perseveread.

[1775] Perceivered.

[1776] Perceived.

[1777] Okay.

[1778] Perceivered.

[1779] Okay.

[1780] Yeah.

[1781] Good job.

[1782] I'm proud of you.

[1783] One thing that was a big misstep, though.

[1784] On my end?

[1785] Yeah.

[1786] I was going to remind you, but then I forgot.

[1787] So it's a misstep on my part too.

[1788] Okay.

[1789] There was a lot of blame to share here.

[1790] Sure.

[1791] When we had Jessica Beal on, you said you were going to put in a special word in the ceremony.

[1792] Get the fuck out I did?

[1793] Yeah, and I forget what the word was.

[1794] Did she remember that?

[1795] Or lightning?

[1796] Was it mayonnaise?

[1797] I don't think it was mayonnaise, but it was.

[1798] No, it was something totally random like that where it would pop out.

[1799] Yeah, Jarnie.

[1800] We're in their wedding, yeah.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] And I don't know if she remembered, but you didn't do it.

[1803] I didn't do it.

[1804] You put the wedding first.

[1805] Unfortunately.

[1806] Because you can't remember the word, you really can't make the claim.

[1807] I know.

[1808] I do know.

[1809] I mean, I don't know the word, but I do know.

[1810] And it was like hippopotamus.

[1811] It was like something so crazy.

[1812] We specifically said it has to be something so absurd that everyone, we, the three of us, would know in the moment.

[1813] Yep.

[1814] But to quote Christopher Hitchens, which did write some problematic things.

[1815] But your claim in the absence of facts, my dismissal requires no facts.

[1816] So if your claim has no facts, my dismissal of your claim doesn't require facts.

[1817] Oh, wow.

[1818] Okay.

[1819] That's a neat logic.

[1820] Well, someone in the, I'm sure in Armchair will comment what that word was.

[1821] Mm -hmm.

[1822] Mm -hmm.

[1823] And let us know.

[1824] Okay.

[1825] AJ.

[1826] Okay, the HBO show with the alternative universe where Charles Lindberg was president is, oh my God.

[1827] It just went into this folder.

[1828] Oh, what does that mean?

[1829] I don't know.

[1830] A folder with your pencil and you trade.

[1831] Ah, what's happening?

[1832] Oh, no. Oh, we're going to get to see one of Monica.

[1833] This is annoying.

[1834] This will be a first, a real -time tantrum.

[1835] Move your body around a little bit when you're...

[1836] Found it.

[1837] Leave it in.

[1838] Found it.

[1839] Say the thing that the Olsen twins say?

[1840] They say, you got it, dude.

[1841] There we go.

[1842] I was trying to remember it the other day because the girls were watching a couple of their movies.

[1843] They always do it with this thumbs up.

[1844] You got it, dude.

[1845] Double thumbs up?

[1846] Yeah.

[1847] Or is it one?

[1848] I don't remember.

[1849] Maybe you're confused because they each have a phone.

[1850] Yeah, that was like the cool part about it.

[1851] It was only one twin at a time.

[1852] But when they thumbsed up, it was two of them.

[1853] That was the only time they acknowledged it.

[1854] Okay.

[1855] Plot against America is the HBO shows in 2020.

[1856] Charles Lindberg was president.

[1857] Charles Lindberg As I recall, his kid was kidnapped and died.

[1858] That's one big thing about him.

[1859] Oh, no. Yeah, the whole Lindberg trial or something.

[1860] But the other thing is, I think he was a major anti -Semite.

[1861] Yeah.

[1862] He was a Nazi show, I think.

[1863] Okay.

[1864] Yeah, the whole point is that he was saying there was a show, that show was filming, and then they were screaming about Nazis on the street, of the streets of New York.

[1865] Right, right, right.

[1866] An alternate American history during World War II is told through the eyes of a working -class Jewish family in New Jersey as they endure the political rise of Charles Lindbergh, who captures a presidency and turns the nation towards fascism.

[1867] Mm -hmm.

[1868] Wow.

[1869] Ed Burns.

[1870] Oh.

[1871] Program creator.

[1872] I think they say, like, Lindberg.

[1873] Yeah, he was the most famous man in the world, and the Lindberg baby that was kidnapped was, like, the biggest story of the day.

[1874] It was the biggest baby of the day.

[1875] It was the world's biggest baby.

[1876] Shouldn't laugh about it because it was a kid.

[1877] Shouldn't, and I think the baby died.

[1878] Oh.

[1879] God, spoiler.

[1880] Are Turkey's indigenous to North America?

[1881] Hmm.

[1882] Great question.

[1883] Yes.

[1884] Oh, good.

[1885] Yes, they are.

[1886] There's one in here.

[1887] Oh, my God.

[1888] Hey, come closer.

[1889] You can get on the mic.

[1890] They're indigenous to this at it.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] Domestic turkeys come from the wide.

[1893] I'm not going to read this genus in species.

[1894] Yeah, you don't need to.

[1895] A species that is native only to the Americas.

[1896] The domesticated turkey of today bears little resemblance to their wild ancestors.

[1897] Turkeys are a native North American bird.

[1898] That's what I want to say.

[1899] Okay, great.

[1900] My guess is that they're probably somewhere in the order of five times as heavy as they were.

[1901] Before we started genetically interfering and selectively breeding them to be bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

[1902] Like something like the chicken, the chicken breast is something.

[1903] It's like 10 times bigger than that.

[1904] I know, and that's why adolescents are...

[1905] Have titties.

[1906] Yes.

[1907] They look so mature because of the antibiotics.

[1908] We've heard that.

[1909] That's what we've heard in.

[1910] I choose to believe it because when I remember kids in my middle school and like just 10 years after that, everyone looks old.

[1911] Okay.

[1912] Well, I don't know if I believe it.

[1913] I'm just going to say that I don't know that.

[1914] Hormones.

[1915] Yeah, I don't know if that.

[1916] I just want to say, because that's a very big lobby.

[1917] You don't have to know, but I know.

[1918] Oh, okay.

[1919] I'm just kidding.

[1920] I don't know, but I do, I do.

[1921] It seems plausible, is what we should say.

[1922] It seems very plausible.

[1923] I mean, kids are getting their periods early.

[1924] People say all this, but, man, when I was in junior high, there were a ton of girls with big boobs.

[1925] I know.

[1926] I got my period when I was 12.

[1927] There was several people that were pregnant and left eighth grade.

[1928] You know, I don't know how much earlier could have.

[1929] Eighth grade?

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] Several people, that's rare.

[1932] Well, I lived in a, you know, backwater.

[1933] Yeah.

[1934] I was 12, so I was...

[1935] When you had a baby?

[1936] When I had my first men's seas.

[1937] Oh.

[1938] My, um...

[1939] What's it called?

[1940] The first one.

[1941] Oh.

[1942] You call it your flies.

[1943] Oh, first time the flies.

[1944] Yeah, the first migration.

[1945] Oh, there it is.

[1946] Yeah.

[1947] But no, it...

[1948] Like locas.

[1949] It is called something, but...

[1950] Oh, your first menstrual cycle has its own name?

[1951] Yeah.

[1952] Oh.

[1953] Men art?

[1954] I don't know.

[1955] M -E -N -N -M -N.

[1956] N -A -R -C -H -E.

[1957] I think it's monarchy.

[1958] Menarge?

[1959] Menarge?

[1960] Bussing Monarches.

[1961] Oh, my God.

[1962] Monarchy.

[1963] Monarchy!

[1964] Well, that's Malarkey.

[1965] That's your first man's.

[1966] Probably.

[1967] That's only your first month.

[1968] That's Malarge.

[1969] Okay, so then we were talking about the turkeys in relation to Thanksgiving.

[1970] Was there turkeys at the purse of things memoir?

[1971] Was there a cornucopia?

[1972] Okay, there's an NPR article that obviously came from their...

[1973] Trusted.

[1974] news source.

[1975] That's right.

[1976] About the first Thanksgiving.

[1977] I'm going to read a little bit.

[1978] Yeah, do it.

[1979] How long was the first Thanksgiving dinner?

[1980] It wasn't just a dinner.

[1981] It lasted three days.

[1982] Boom.

[1983] Who was there?

[1984] About 50 pilgrims came plus 90 Wampanog.

[1985] Okay.

[1986] Plus 90 Wampanog Indians.

[1987] I hope I'm pronouncing that right.

[1988] About two of every three people there were Wampanog.

[1989] Maybe that's why in the middle of the party the English took out their muskets and quote, exercised arms.

[1990] Oh, Jesus, this just took a turn.

[1991] First I was like, oh, this is nice.

[1992] You keep hearing that this didn't happen.

[1993] Oh, it happened.

[1994] It happened, but it got really bad, yeah.

[1995] Oh, it got violent?

[1996] Well, exercise arms means shooting.

[1997] Is that what it means?

[1998] Or does it mean, like, putting it on the table, just like a reminder.

[1999] I know we're out numbered three to one, but we have these.

[2000] Oh, okay, hold on.

[2001] Let me keep reading.

[2002] Okay, so the writer of this, Andrew Bears, about two of every three people there were Wampanoke.

[2003] Maybe that is why in the middle of the party, the English took out their muskets and, quote, exercised arms, which Bears says was probably target practice, their subtle way of saying, guess who's got the firepower here?

[2004] You were right.

[2005] Okay, great.

[2006] So they didn't kill a bunch of people.

[2007] They just reminded them like, hey, we can shoot these targets.

[2008] Yeah, they flexed.

[2009] Why is it a family event?

[2010] Were there ladies there?

[2011] Probably not.

[2012] Get them out of there.

[2013] The only eyewitness account mentioned some 90 men.

[2014] This was a political gathering.

[2015] The Wampanogues and the Pilgrims were cementing a military alliance.

[2016] The first Thanksgiving was mostly a guy's only event for the English.

[2017] Sausage party.

[2018] That's what we should.

[2019] did eat on Thanksgiving.

[2020] Oh my God, seriously.

[2021] Where the English women were likely doing the bulk of the cooking.

[2022] Duh.

[2023] Was it held indoors around a big table?

[2024] No. The first Thanksgiving was probably held outdoors including the meals.

[2025] The English houses were too small to get everyone inside.

[2026] Did they eat turkey?

[2027] We don't think so.

[2028] The Wampano guests brought five deer with them.

[2029] So venison was on the menu.

[2030] Sure.

[2031] The English brought fowl.

[2032] Probably migrating waterfowl like ducks and geese which were plentiful in the autumn.

[2033] Greasy birds.

[2034] Governor William Bradford does mention taking turkeys that year but not in connection to the harvest celebration.

[2035] Okay.

[2036] How about cranberries?

[2037] Sorry.

[2038] If anyone at the gathering ate cranberries, it definitely wasn't as a sweet sauce.

[2039] Sweet cranberries need maple syrup and ingredient that wasn't plentiful till 60 years later.

[2040] The wampanoke often ate the berries raw or else in boiled or ash roasted corn cakes.

[2041] Was there a cornucopia at the first Thanksgiving?

[2042] There's no formal record of a cornucopia appearing there.

[2043] Okay.

[2044] I mean, where the fuck did the Horn of Plenty come from then?

[2045] Thanksgiving cornucopia meaning why is the Horn of Plenty a symbol of Thanksgiving?

[2046] Is it the basket they carried the harvest in as they collected, and it's a symbol of harvest?

[2047] What is history of the Thanksgiving cornucopia?

[2048] The word cornucopia is derived from two Latin words, Cornu meaning horn, and copia meaning plenty.

[2049] A frequent presence in Greek and Roman folklore, the overflowing cornucopia, was often depicted as a symbolic accessory carried by gods and goddesses like Hercules, Fortuna, Fortuna.

[2050] Fortuna.

[2051] Stacked full of fish.

[2052] It was first described as an actual animal, quote, horn taken from Amalthea, the goat nurse of Zeus.

[2053] According to the ancient Greeks, baby Zeus was being cared for and fed by Amalthea when he broke off one of her horns.

[2054] Oh, too strong.

[2055] Which began to admit a constant supply of food for him.

[2056] That's how this horn of plenty first came to symbolize prosperity, wealth, and abundant.

[2057] Oh, so have nothing to do with harvest.

[2058] It's a Greek thing.

[2059] Also, poor baby, Zeus didn't know his own strength.

[2060] Weh.

[2061] It's not, you should be sad for Amalthia.

[2062] I am, ish.

[2063] No, you're not sad for...

[2064] What a dumb -dum.

[2065] Zeus.

[2066] Zeus, I guess, was like the first mice of men.

[2067] Lenny.

[2068] Oh, Lenny.

[2069] Megalith.

[2070] Have I sang my song on here that I made up about Gino's pizza?

[2071] I'm not sure.

[2072] Go ahead.

[2073] Okay, sing it all the time for the family, and now the kids sing it too.

[2074] It goes like this.

[2075] Genos pizza tastes really yummy if you eat it really quickly.

[2076] What's Gino's pizza?

[2077] Exactly.

[2078] I think it's a frozen pizza.

[2079] I actually love it, but I'm making a joke that if you don't eat it quick.

[2080] Sure.

[2081] So Gino's pizza tastes really yummy if you eat it really quick.

[2082] Okay.

[2083] Snake handling.

[2084] He said he went to Tennessee or Kentucky.

[2085] He couldn't remember.

[2086] And I don't know.

[2087] Because I was like, oh, maybe it's only in one state, but it's not.

[2088] It's all over the place.

[2089] Well, it's not.

[2090] It's just found in the Appalachia area.

[2091] Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, South Carolina.

[2092] I never, growing up in Georgia, fell upon snake handling.

[2093] Thank God I hate snakes.

[2094] I think it's interesting when the preacher gets bit by the rattlesnakes, which happened, you read about it once a year.

[2095] And then they all got to watch this guy kind of succumb to, you know, taxemia or whatever.

[2096] Manicor, where they have to make an excuse.

[2097] Yes, that maybe someone was on their period inside the church or something.

[2098] Someone else's fault that was impure having their monarchy and then this poor preacher who's handling rattlesnakes This is exciting When you were a clue in the New York Times That was September 14th, 2018 Oh wow That was a Friday I was a Friday clue That's right Okay so I wasn't very popular He was nice, he made it a Thursday Which wasn't true I think he said it was a Thursday Okay Apophonia That's seeing a pattern where none exists We need to know that word.

[2099] That's right.

[2100] What can we do to remember it?

[2101] I don't know.

[2102] I was just trying to think of a trick, but I'm scared.

[2103] Appo means apathetic.

[2104] I can like, okay, apathetic.

[2105] That means I don't care.

[2106] That doesn't help me. That doesn't, yeah.

[2107] Apoplectic.

[2108] Okay, apoplectic a little closer because seeing a pattern where none exists often can make you apoplectic.

[2109] You know, APA is the name of my dentists.

[2110] Well, no, they're in the APA.

[2111] No, no, appa dentists.

[2112] is what the place is called.

[2113] Oh, my God.

[2114] Okay, great.

[2115] Great job.

[2116] You're such a good steward of their brand.

[2117] Apophonia.

[2118] We're going to know that because that comes up in our lives a lot.

[2119] All the time.

[2120] Thinking outside the box origin, he said puzzle with dots.

[2121] And you said, you thought maybe it was a different one.

[2122] But I'm seeing puzzle with dots.

[2123] Okay, great.

[2124] Break a leg origin.

[2125] I found a new one.

[2126] Oh, okay.

[2127] So there's so many.

[2128] And we don't know what the real one is.

[2129] But there are a lot.

[2130] Okay, but this is a fun one.

[2131] The term break a leg may be traced back to the Elizabethan language.

[2132] To, quote, break a leg in Shakespeare's time meant literally to bow by bending at the knee.

[2133] This is the one that Kekner told me. Oh, really?

[2134] Remember I said I couldn't think of a third one?

[2135] Oh.

[2136] That was it.

[2137] Since a successful actor would, quote, break a leg on stage and receive applause, a phrase would in effect be a wish for good luck.

[2138] But there's so many, let's see, on Wikipedia.

[2139] Oh, this is too much, but this is an improv exercise.

[2140] Could you make two up and read a real one?

[2141] Oh, shit.

[2142] That's hard.

[2143] I know it's a huge challenge.

[2144] I'm not sure I have that energy for my tantrum.

[2145] I'm sorry.

[2146] I wish I could.

[2147] I wish I could.

[2148] That's okay.

[2149] And then I would have apophonia trying to find the pattern.

[2150] Theatrical origins, okay?

[2151] Popular but implausible theories.

[2152] The performer bowing.

[2153] The term break a leg may refer to a performer bowing or curtsing to the audience in the metaphorical sense of bending one's leg to do so.

[2154] So that's what we just heard and they're saying that's probably not right.

[2155] The performer breaking the leg line The edge of a stage Just beyond the vantage point of the audience Forms a line, imaginary or actually marked That can be referred to as the leg line Named after a type of concealing stage curtain A leg For an unpaid stand by performer to cross Or quote, break this line Would mean that the performer was getting an opportunity To go on stage and be paid Therefore, quote, break a leg Might have shifted from a specific hope for this outcome To a general hope for any performer's good fortune During a performance of Shakespeare's Richard III, the famed 18th century British actor David Garrick became so entranced in the performance that he was supposedly unaware of a literal fracture in his leg.

[2156] Okay.

[2157] Okay, that's good.

[2158] Whoa, I just got an email from A .J. Jacobs.

[2159] Oh, my, ding, ding.

[2160] That's crazy.

[2161] Various folk theories proposed that Elizabethan or even ancient Greek theatrical audience either stomped their literal legs or banged chair legs to express applause.

[2162] Oh.

[2163] Okay.

[2164] Rowdy.

[2165] Last one.

[2166] Here we go.

[2167] John Wilkes Booth.

[2168] There we go.

[2169] One popular but false etymology derives the phrase from the 1865 assassination of Abraham Lincoln, during which John Wilkes Booth, the actor turned assassin, claimed in his diary that he broke his leg, leaping to the stage of Ford's Theater after murdering the president.

[2170] The fact that actors did not start wishing each other to break alike until as early as the 1920s, more than 50 years later, makes us an unlikely source.

[2171] Furthermore, Booth often exaggerated in a false opinion.

[2172] his diary entries to make them more dramatic.

[2173] He did have a broken leg.

[2174] There's a great book I read about the succeeding 10 days where they hunted him.

[2175] And he had a fucking broken leg.

[2176] So that part's real.

[2177] Also, just because it was 50 years later, fuck that.

[2178] If that's their logic, that the ones that started in Elizabethan times couldn't possibly have made it 300 years.

[2179] So in fact, if that's their logic, that the closer you are to the incident more relevant, then that's the most relevant, the most likely.

[2180] Wait, what?

[2181] They're proof for why that couldn't.

[2182] is because it happened 50 years before it became a popular saying in the 1920s.

[2183] Well, all the previous explanations they gave happened 300 years before 1920.

[2184] So they've introduced a logic that they've sinfully broken.

[2185] Do you follow that?

[2186] Yeah, I don't care.

[2187] Okay, that's true.

[2188] Because we'll never know.

[2189] We won't, but I just am furious with their logic.

[2190] I get that, but it's Wikipedia.

[2191] One person probably wrote that, and then another person wrote...

[2192] Another person decided it wasn't John Wilkes' booth.

[2193] Yeah.

[2194] It could have been, and that would be great.

[2195] And none of them on here is the curtain draw, which I have also heard.

[2196] Yeah.

[2197] So write that in and say, that's the one.

[2198] I need to write that in.

[2199] Say, the first leg broke in 1990 because this actor had so many standing ovations, the curtain went up and down so many times the leg broke.

[2200] The preceding year became a popular phrase.

[2201] Yeah.

[2202] And we know because of the timeline.

[2203] That's how we know.

[2204] That's why it can't be Elizabeth.

[2205] Okay, I wrote down at Fax.

[2206] Origin, Mama Mia, Papa, Pia, baby got a diarrhea.

[2207] Did you find out?

[2208] No. You're going to have to use your time machine and then you can report back.

[2209] Darren Aronowski.

[2210] So that was crazy because we had talked about him.

[2211] Then he came up again.

[2212] Ding, ding, ding, sim.

[2213] Crazy.

[2214] But you said, first time his name's ever been said on this show, and it's been twice and one day.

[2215] Not true.

[2216] I'm just remembering.

[2217] Natalie.

[2218] Yep.

[2219] Because I wanted to know what the process was like.

[2220] We definitely talked about him on Natalie.

[2221] Of course.

[2222] So, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[2223] angles up the rear on this one.

[2224] Sim's so lazy.

[2225] You can see it all.

[2226] By the way, Vido Skyma, we've recognized a pattern that may or may not be there.

[2227] Oh, my God.

[2228] Philadelphia.

[2229] Apathenia.

[2230] You know what?

[2231] The dentist thing worked for me. Oh, it did.

[2232] APA.

[2233] It did not, as you heard.

[2234] That's all right.

[2235] I like that it might be called something different every day.

[2236] It would be very on brand with what the thing means.

[2237] That's exactly right.

[2238] It's a puzzle within a puzzle.

[2239] That was such a fun, fun episode, and I want to do more puzzles.

[2240] Me too.

[2241] Me too.

[2242] I was cross -wording pretty hard this weekend.

[2243] Can you start presenting me with a riddle on fact checks?

[2244] Right.

[2245] That's all.

[2246] Love you.

[2247] I love you.

[2248] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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