Pete Holmes

[0] Hello everybody.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] I am Doug Brynus.

[3] I'm joined by Patty Plimpleton.

[4] Oh, hi, Patty.

[5] Hi, Doug.

[6] Oh, is that my name?

[7] I already forgot.

[8] Well, I do not forget the name of our guest today.

[9] His name is Pete Holmes.

[10] And after interviewing him, I checked out his show, crashing.

[11] And I love it.

[12] Yeah, you watch it on the plane.

[13] That's right.

[14] I genuinely love it.

[15] It's so well done.

[16] Yeah, and he also has a great podcast that I've been on.

[17] You made it weird.

[18] You made it weird with Pete Holmes.

[19] He's also a stand -up comedian who's very popular in that regard.

[20] And he has a new book coming out, Comedy, Sex, God.

[21] It's available for pre -order now on Amazon and on sale May 14th.

[22] Give it a read.

[23] I'm sure you'll have a chuckle.

[24] You might even get sexually aroused.

[25] That's hopefully what will happen.

[26] Monica, buckle up for Pete Holmes.

[27] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[28] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[29] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[30] He's an armchair expert.

[31] I think this is going to drive you crazy for the next hour and a half.

[32] Don't you want this on the outside?

[33] That's such a nice consideration.

[34] Is it controlling or is it considerate?

[35] This is a key thing, Monica, a key thing about me is I actually get upset when people don't.

[36] If you have a pro tip, it's like, tell me. Like, I'm the guy that gets mad.

[37] If something is great and it changed your life, why aren't you telling you about it?

[38] Why are you keeping it to yourself?

[39] Where some people might be like, don't control me, bro.

[40] I'm like, we're all stuck in a very confusing thing.

[41] Yeah.

[42] And if there's something to tell, like, hey, you know, eating fruit in the morning isn't too heavy.

[43] And it kind of helps you face the day.

[44] I'm like, fucking thank you.

[45] I'll read and Cocoa Krispies.

[46] And I'm falling asleep in math class.

[47] Like, I'm going back to high school.

[48] Sure.

[49] These are old wounds.

[50] They are old wounds.

[51] In fact, high school.

[52] First of all, hi, hi Pete Holmes.

[53] We're already chatting.

[54] It's the way they say it, though, right?

[55] It's the way they say it.

[56] I'll take it anyway.

[57] Really?

[58] You have to say, what the fuck are you doing with those Cocoa Krispies?

[59] Wow.

[60] Yeah, but I had an older brother and that's how he corrected me. He wasn't, it wasn't like, super mean about it.

[61] Yeah.

[62] But he might tease me out of things.

[63] Like I remember the comedian Christian Finnegan, I was wearing my, I had a, remember the Palm Trio.

[64] It was like, oh, sure, sure.

[65] Had a little stylist that you would write with.

[66] I had that and I was so proud of it because I thought it was like the real, I know, it was like the real comedian phone.

[67] It was like the real made it phone.

[68] Pre -i -phone, it was like, if you had a trio, it didn't just say like, I have $300 because that's what it was, which was a ton.

[69] Now they're all the $1 ,000 and we're used to it.

[70] But 300 something for a phone was crazy.

[71] But it was also like, what are you up to that you need constant email accent?

[72] Right.

[73] And I wanted it.

[74] And I saw all the comedians had one.

[75] So I finally got one.

[76] And I was proud of it.

[77] So I clipped it to my belt.

[78] Oh, Jesus.

[79] Because I wanted it.

[80] It was like quieter.

[81] Available.

[82] And I really, I went all out.

[83] I got like the clear case because I didn't want to hide that it was a trio.

[84] You didn't go full Glendale style and have a gold chain connection to your.

[85] G .S. Yeah.

[86] Glendale style?

[87] But then I, the first time I wore it, I went, I was on the road with Christian.

[88] It was the best week ever live tour.

[89] And I went downstairs and I had it clipped like a dad at Disneyland.

[90] It was clipped to my belt.

[91] And he just went, belt clip, huh?

[92] And I just took it off.

[93] Yeah.

[94] And I didn't go, what an asshole.

[95] I was like, oh, right.

[96] Well, I just had a blind spot.

[97] So I was just on your podcast last week.

[98] Yes.

[99] And your wife.

[100] Valerie.

[101] Valerie, your beautiful wife, who's about to bear her life.

[102] She made this observation because she listens to armchair.

[103] So she's hip to what's happening with me psychologically.

[104] She made this observation that Pete and I are basically two sides of a single coin.

[105] Like we have a lot of the same shared history, all these different issues we wrestle with.

[106] But we have the polar opposite reaction.

[107] So when he told me he loves people telling him what to do, I was like, oh, well, right there.

[108] That's my number one pet peeve.

[109] That's so interesting.

[110] because you, I mean, you know better.

[111] It's like you seem like, like we talked about nicotine, right?

[112] Yeah.

[113] And nicotine's interesting for like writing or getting your brain going or whatever.

[114] How did you know that?

[115] Did you just figure it out on your own?

[116] I read stuff.

[117] Like exercise makes you feel so good.

[118] Like you're just reading.

[119] Reading.

[120] So I'm not reading.

[121] I'm having things read to me in the wild.

[122] People just say stuff.

[123] And I'm like, okay.

[124] And you just want to forge it on your own.

[125] Well, you would have been like, yes, it's how history.

[126] had been passed on to us.

[127] You like the oral story.

[128] I like an oral story.

[129] It changes a little bit.

[130] It's a little bit wrong.

[131] But in the wrongness is my own room to experiment.

[132] And even if in its wrongness, in all the iterations of its wrongness, there's still a pillar of truth.

[133] And that's a real testament to the pillar of truth.

[134] We talked about how I loved what you said about the American government.

[135] The two -party system is to mimic this, I'm paraphrasing you, the turmoil.

[136] of the human psyche.

[137] And then I was like, it's interesting how all these things that are successful often mimic the unsuccessfulness of the human condition.

[138] Yeah, the imperfectness of the human condition.

[139] And that's what I'm saying with the imperfectness of oral advice, I might get something that's wrong, but then like I, that's part of it.

[140] It's built in, that's a good thing.

[141] Yes.

[142] Because then I still have a relationship with it as opposed to being just handed the answer.

[143] Well, now, in the event that people don't seek out your podcast to listen to our previous conversation.

[144] Yeah, let's just do it again.

[145] Let's, A, let's do it again.

[146] Tell you, but before we even do it again, let me tell you first what happened on it, and then we'll do it all over again.

[147] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[148] We just play it.

[149] But I was just very bold over by your personality.

[150] Oh, wow, really?

[151] Yes, yes.

[152] I'm so pleased.

[153] Your book is great.

[154] Oh, thank you, Monica.

[155] That sounded so false.

[156] I really mean it, though.

[157] It just came out wrong.

[158] Oh, thank you, Monica.

[159] I felt uncomfortable, so I overshot.

[160] I'm sorry to make you uncomfortable, but it is great.

[161] It's hard to say, thank you, right.

[162] I'm very good at compliments.

[163] Oh, go.

[164] I appreciate that.

[165] But a good one, a successful one, is one where you go, we're going to be friends now.

[166] Like another name of the podcast could have been, we're going to be friends now.

[167] Yeah.

[168] That's a great name.

[169] But it's called you made it weird.

[170] If people want to hear it.

[171] What am I plugging?

[172] Please do.

[173] I know.

[174] Crosspod promos.

[175] But can I say it started, not unlike when you watch a movie.

[176] When you watch a movie and you're kind of just accumulating red flags, more than evaluating whether it's entertaining or fun or that was a good scene.

[177] You're almost just like, oh, that sucked.

[178] That was bad.

[179] And then after like five red flags, you're like, oh, this movie's not very good.

[180] So I arrive at your house.

[181] First of all, I'm like, oh, I love what part of town you live in.

[182] I love your choice in landscaping and the gate you had, I really liked.

[183] We put in the gate.

[184] That's our name.

[185] That was our design.

[186] Love a good gate.

[187] I used to go on a lot of walks in our hood and I'd take pictures of gate.

[188] Yes, in doors.

[189] I love doors.

[190] And you're such a man, I'm so pleased to tell you that.

[191] I'm just like, I looked at gates and I sent photos to the contract.

[192] And I was like, I really like these gates.

[193] Okay.

[194] And this is boring.

[195] No, this is our first.

[196] 40 % of our audience is a red flag for this episode.

[197] No, 40 % of our audience we picked up from this old house.

[198] That's something that's in our metrics.

[199] Bob Vila had something psychological going on where you were like, are you my dad?

[200] Yes.

[201] Because he was kind of goofy and sweet.

[202] but he was working with hammers.

[203] Now, interesting.

[204] Right.

[205] Did you really feel that way about him?

[206] A little bit.

[207] Because I felt judged by him.

[208] Oh, really?

[209] Yeah, he was triggering for me. Because he knows everything.

[210] Because he was perfect dad.

[211] Perfect family.

[212] I was like, oh, I'm a piece of shit.

[213] This guy's perfect.

[214] His house.

[215] He builds his own house.

[216] We're a rag tag group, single mom.

[217] He's so sweet.

[218] I just think he looks like he's also going to make pancakes.

[219] He's going to make a shed.

[220] But then he's also going to make pancakes.

[221] Very kind.

[222] He's going to make a table that he can.

[223] display pancakes.

[224] I made both of them.

[225] I made everything you see here.

[226] But my dad, my dad worked with those.

[227] There's wood chips in the pancakes.

[228] What kind of pancakes are these?

[229] Maplewood.

[230] Sawdust pancakes.

[231] Your father, though.

[232] My dad, uh, worked with guys like that and they weren't like Bob Vila.

[233] You know, they were like chained smoking, you know, great guys, but like they seemed like 70s guys.

[234] Yellow tinted glasses, cigarette always in the mouth, buzz saw.

[235] Yes.

[236] I too, I was, I was a roofer.

[237] roofer for a period of time and the people I yeah I worked with generally weren't like Bob Villa Villa but isn't it LL find out Spanish yeah Roberto Villa um anyway you were but he was more I love the gate right so so so all these clues I'm getting like oh I love this neighborhood I love this gate I walk in your house it's very warm and inviting and it's not ostentatious or pretentious it looks like a real it doesn't look like a photograph in a magazine, which drives me crazy sometimes when people are successful.

[238] Everything just looks like a hotel.

[239] Yes, I don't like that.

[240] My wife and I often argue about this.

[241] I'm like, yeah, that's gorgeous, but who the fuck lives there?

[242] I don't, you know.

[243] Right.

[244] If I had to guess, and you tell me how I'm doing, that your house would be more on the pristine side.

[245] Just because of the dual successes of, not that Val's not a success, but you guys have two show business.

[246] Well, she, I think we both agree, Val's a failure.

[247] Abject failure.

[248] Val is like the most successful person, I know.

[249] You can't buy what she has.

[250] That's what I mean.

[251] Like, what we're lacking, that's why I was drawn to, and that's why you...

[252] The whole I'm feeling just happens to generate money as an accident.

[253] That's right.

[254] I say this all the time.

[255] It's just a wonderful happenstance that what we need to do is valued in our society.

[256] Because I think about this all the time.

[257] I have people in my family or friends where I'm just like, who they are isn't valuable in a capitalist society.

[258] And that's a difficult thing to get to.

[259] We're just in this weird place where it's like, can you flash your personality and make it sizzle?

[260] Yeah.

[261] It's like, can you share and can you be engaging and be fun?

[262] It's like, yeah, those are good things.

[263] But like producing, I have so many people in my life, a lot of people that don't produce.

[264] and then they don't really consume a lot either.

[265] So our society sort of looks down on them because they're just...

[266] Not playing the game.

[267] Exactly.

[268] I think about this all the time.

[269] It's like my utopian goals also don't function with what I know about the world.

[270] Yeah.

[271] You know?

[272] It's like, yes, we should stop trying to buy things to fill a hole.

[273] Regulate our internal feelings.

[274] Right.

[275] I do it.

[276] I'm guilty of it.

[277] Clearly that's not the way.

[278] But then I go, okay, well, then everyone stops buying shit.

[279] Well, what the fuck's, everyone to do everyone needs something to do the deeper i get into showbiz the less i consume of it like i watch viewer movies and tv and i'm like what am i doing i'm sort of putting myself out of business yeah you know what i mean like even on my own podcast we kind of talk about how nice it is to unplug a little bit yeah and consume less and then i'm like but i'm also making the thing that i want people to consume absolutely in the intro of that podcast i'm still saying please watch my show or or listen to this podcast.

[280] So I'm full of shit in that way.

[281] But this is what I'm saying.

[282] This is why we have the Republicans and the Democrats in our house.

[283] And I have that Republican energy that it's like I like producing things and I like consuming things.

[284] And I also have a Bernie Sanders that's in there that's like, yes, but it's all so valuable to just sit down and relax sometimes.

[285] Or whatever it is.

[286] First try on Bernie, not bad.

[287] Good.

[288] More than not bad.

[289] I was like, oh, he must do Bernie.

[290] Yeah.

[291] Yeah.

[292] Can I try it?

[293] Do it one more time.

[294] I just want you to know that the 1 % of the 1 % of the 1 % Okay, so what I think you're doing, what I think you're doing is it's kind of putting your tongue in the roof of your mouth?

[295] You got a little bit more New York in it.

[296] Okay.

[297] You want a little bit more.

[298] New York City.

[299] I'm from New York and from Brooklyn.

[300] Okay.

[301] I want to dismantle the security and stay the account.

[302] I don't drive an Audi.

[303] I don't.

[304] I'm losing it now.

[305] I don't believe in banking.

[306] There's no banking.

[307] I wish people could see.

[308] It's 90 % hand movement.

[309] is nice.

[310] 90 % hand movement and PHM.

[311] I want to give you a compliment.

[312] The people that love Val and the people that love our house, I know those sound kind of trivial, but our house is cozy and warm and lived in.

[313] Yes.

[314] That's sort of, I wonder if you and Kristen have something like this.

[315] That's one of our tests.

[316] We have people that come by our house and they're just sort of like, I tell this story all the time because apparently it hurt my feelings.

[317] But we've had more than one showbiz friend come over and be like, this is a great starter house.

[318] Oh, my goodness.

[319] Oh, wow.

[320] And we're just like, this is, like the, we have very, they're small bedrooms.

[321] Like, our kids are not going to have their own Xbox TV setups and they're just bedrooms.

[322] Sure.

[323] Place to go sleep.

[324] It's a place to sleep for slumber.

[325] So it's not one of those houses.

[326] And we don't have like, you know, a lot of fancy stuff.

[327] But if you like the house, chances are you're going to like Val, because that's what I'm into.

[328] I sort of, I don't want to go into that.

[329] To me, there's no pageantry or presentation to the house.

[330] It's genuinely what you guys enjoy being around, which I dig.

[331] That's right.

[332] And that's kind of how I like my inner world.

[333] Yeah.

[334] You know what I mean?

[335] Everything's kind of out there, easy access.

[336] It's not too clean, but it's not too messy.

[337] That's how I like it in my noodle.

[338] Yeah.

[339] That's what I say about our house.

[340] It's a house.

[341] It's nice, but it's what a child would draw with crayons.

[342] Where are you from?

[343] I'm from Boston.

[344] Well, I say Boston because I look like, if I say Lexington, people think I'm in Kentucky.

[345] Sure, I would have.

[346] We don't acknowledge that, Lexington.

[347] Okay, great.

[348] We're from the birthplace of the American Revolution.

[349] Oh, okay.

[350] You're welcome.

[351] Shot heard around the world.

[352] Lexington Concord.

[353] Yeah, I read 1776.

[354] Nathaniel.

[355] Nathaniel Hawkins.

[356] What have you had your brat voice that you want to do?

[357] Score.

[358] You're in June 11th.

[359] But, you know, it's funny.

[360] I think this is where the Pete Dax's dissimilarities might begin.

[361] is because Boston is a very, not always, my experience of Boston was a very macho place.

[362] Yes.

[363] So growing up, I just went hard mom.

[364] I know you did too, but my way of going hard mom was like to not like the Red Sox and to love talking and going on walks and stuff.

[365] I love gossiping and inner worlds and feelings and stuff.

[366] So like I sort of figured out at a young age that like Little League wasn't getting my dad's attention.

[367] in the way that I hoped.

[368] So I became like a little showman.

[369] Like a little buttery, soft showman.

[370] But I would imagine in this suburb of Boston, because there's a few cities that are a little macho, a little alpha -e, a little culture of pride -e.

[371] Well, that's Boston, too.

[372] There's so much pride.

[373] I did the joke on stage you learn right now.

[374] It's like, why do people get mad when you say, fuck your mother?

[375] And it's like, you don't know my mother.

[376] Yeah.

[377] That sort of attitude that I have comes from like, why are you proud of being from a place?

[378] like this is really and I get it well because it's so indiscriminate like it's just it's just weird that you happen your parents got pregnant in that location it's like well drew michael who's at hbos special i liked quite a bit what has a joke about like why are you proud of your big dick it's like it's just it's something you had nothing to do with right but i understand now i used to have a bigger chip on my shoulder to be like who cares it's just land it's just like a fucking thing i understand pride and being proud of where you're from and i understand i used to be one of those kids that was like, the Red Sox aren't even from Boston.

[379] Like, I was that guy.

[380] And I've sort of relaxed.

[381] Yeah.

[382] I understand clans.

[383] That sounds like tribalism.

[384] Tribalism in a good way, in a way that it can give you meaning.

[385] And it's funny, my group was the group that was not being in the main group, but it was still a group.

[386] And I know that's like a freshman year of college observation.

[387] Yeah.

[388] In the same way that our non -fancy houses are also a way of sort of establishing a fanciness.

[389] You're so fancy that you don't even.

[390] and have to brag about how fancy.

[391] Well, yeah, I always think it's kind of gangster that we don't need to have a big house.

[392] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[393] You're the gorilla in the jungle that doesn't have to have a silver back.

[394] Until it's go time.

[395] Until it's go time.

[396] Right, right.

[397] But that's a big point.

[398] I'm only saying this because I think it might be interesting to you.

[399] Alpha betaness is a big move.

[400] And that's one of my big moves.

[401] And when I talk about how, like, I would never pee with the door open, for example, which you did.

[402] Out of fear you might toot while you're peeing or someone would see your penis?

[403] that I wouldn't start right away, and then I'd get my head, and then I'd be like, now they can tell I'm not peeing.

[404] That was my freshman year of college was the pee situation was just terrifying.

[405] And did you have this?

[406] Like what the fuck is going on?

[407] I took so many pretend poops to pee just because I couldn't handle.

[408] Somebody's talking to me like, yeah, that's when I took arts and theater.

[409] And I'm like, I'm trying to pretend I'm waist deep in a river right now.

[410] I can't.

[411] And that happened once.

[412] And I'm the type of brain that will like live with that sort of embarrassing.

[413] Did you also have the added thought, which I know a lot of guys I grew up with had, where you think that based on how girthy the stream is, the flow, like how hard the urine's hitting the toilet, the people that aren't with you in the commode are evaluating how big your penis is based on how thick and ropy your - This is why Val, yeah, thick and ropy.

[414] I'm sorry, interrupted the best part.

[415] But I'm so excited to agree with you because this is why Val was like you guys should be friends because that is such my own thought it's like what are we really talking about here and we're talking about penis shame always always always almost always and this is why men are so embarrassing I say to monica but it's just like that situation is a primate situation and I was never good in those situations but it was a really wonderful feeling I remember my roommate in college was kind of a man's man uh he now he works for the FBI now he's like a real tough dude.

[416] He has guns.

[417] Sure.

[418] Kicks doors down.

[419] Yeah, he's a macho guy.

[420] And he, and his friend is an even more macho guy.

[421] And I remember at his bachelor party, we were all hanging out and we're drinking, which is also just a proof that you can consume poison and not die.

[422] Sure.

[423] Sure.

[424] Which is also a primate thing.

[425] Yeah.

[426] It's that's social, sexual, social advertising is I can drink this and not die.

[427] I have a joke about that.

[428] I'm like, I can consume this and still fuck you is what, it's why we drink Scott.

[429] instead of white wine because it's more impressive.

[430] It's more like, ha -ha, nothing can stop me, which, you know, is a testosterone thing.

[431] Because testosterone itself is poisonous.

[432] And so having a lot of testosterone is proof that you can have poison in your body but still live, which is why chiseled jaws and actually being bald and having hair on your back can be attractive to someone because it's signs of high testosterone.

[433] And I got that from Shane Moss.

[434] He did my podcast.

[435] He's brilliant.

[436] But anyway, I started to realize that, like, the way that I was alpha was in how vulnerable and honest I could be, that's the alpha move of it.

[437] I'm so glad you just said that because I've been in a couple different debates with Monica and my wife.

[438] I think that all men employ some strategy.

[439] I don't think there's any man that doesn't have some strategy.

[440] A sex strategy and a...

[441] Yeah.

[442] So my theory goes like this.

[443] Everyone in high school wants to go on a date with a pretty girl.

[444] I'm sorry.

[445] It's just, that's what happens where animals, much bigger part of our brain has evolved to do that activity than your frontal lobe thinking about how people are perceiving you.

[446] You're driven by that.

[447] And so many smart guys go, okay, well, I'm not going to be the quarterback of the football team.

[448] And I'm not going to punch a guy out at a cake party.

[449] Okay, so what am I going to do?

[450] Because I still really want women.

[451] Yeah.

[452] And this is where I've gotten into trouble is, yeah, please.

[453] I'm the guest you've been waiting for.

[454] Uh -oh.

[455] Oh, boy.

[456] go say it no no I'm just saying if you're looking for someone to agree with this type of thinking yeah I'm that person oh you are okay I have a joke it's I'm doing it tonight I have a show tonight and I made my set list earlier and I wrote down 90 % erection that's the name of the joke and I'm not going to do the joke but I'll explain the joke it's also the idea that men achieve erections it's an achievement it's thought of is this thing that we sort of psych ourselves into and we stay in a frame of mind and so I'm going out of order but the premise is 90 % of male behaviors to get an erection later.

[457] Oh.

[458] So I kind of joke, like, we don't want to listen to Kid Rock.

[459] We don't want to wear rap around Oakley's.

[460] We don't want to drive pickup trucks.

[461] We're trying to get a momentum going or later.

[462] Priming the masculine pump.

[463] That's it.

[464] And then I kind of talk about how.

[465] Like, fuck it.

[466] I'm Ted Nugent.

[467] I'm quarter hard.

[468] That's what it is.

[469] Yeah.

[470] It's sort of like, I'm this guy.

[471] I'm this guy.

[472] I'm this guy.

[473] I can't speak for everybody.

[474] I think sex is complicated.

[475] I'm just saying for me, when I'm like out there conquering and feeling the pulse, yeah, and that's when I want to get funky.

[476] So, and then I also talk about how fragile erections are and how weak men are.

[477] And that's why we need those things.

[478] And I say, I've lost my erection because the dog came in and looked at me funny.

[479] You know, so there's this vulnerability.

[480] And I can't handle that psychically.

[481] So the best part of the joke I think is I'm like, we know you want foreplay, but the erection is here.

[482] You don't understand.

[483] We're spinning plates right now.

[484] Like he's shown up and I don't want to do a 20 minute activity and just sometimes you know he'll be fine.

[485] Like I got a 20 minute fine.

[486] But sometimes you're like if I do that, he might not come back.

[487] I'm playing Russian roulette.

[488] So guys aren't, we are idiots, but we're not fucking so stupid that we don't know that women would prefer lots of foreplay.

[489] It's not a strong move to fuck a person quickly.

[490] It's a weak move.

[491] We're going like, we better do this while we can.

[492] Yeah.

[493] And then, and this is the best part, at the joke I do, everything's a bad an erection.

[494] And I go, including this bit.

[495] I go, my wife is here tonight.

[496] And tonight I'm going to be like, and I move my hips.

[497] And I go, do you remember how vulnerable I was on stage?

[498] How I yelled my insecurities to those strangers.

[499] It's a move.

[500] It's not insincere.

[501] I'm just saying when I'm, it's sort of what we were saying about fancy houses and fancy cars.

[502] I drive a non -fancy car, and that is in itself a sort of alpha -beta move.

[503] It is.

[504] It's a beta.

[505] I don't even need a Lamborghini.

[506] If I were doing that, there would probably be part of me that's like, I'm doing what is appealing about me. Maybe not for sex, but I'm doing what's good.

[507] People like it.

[508] People want me around.

[509] They feed me and they include me. The more I'm this way.

[510] Let's go a step further.

[511] So if you're not the captain of the football team, the captain of the football team appeals to whatever percentage of the team.

[512] of the female population it is.

[513] I don't know.

[514] Let's just randomly say it's 50%.

[515] Very high.

[516] So from a guy who looks like the captain of the football.

[517] I do not feel like I look like.

[518] I'm assuming it's 50.

[519] I was not that guy in high school.

[520] But let's just say it is that.

[521] So the beta -ish guy knows, well, those 50 % are completely off the table.

[522] Like it's just not going to happen for them.

[523] Right.

[524] But this other 50 % I found this thing that they do find very attractive.

[525] And I'm going to lean into that as much.

[526] as possible, which is just good sense if you're trying to procreate.

[527] Work with what you got.

[528] And that's why I'm funny, whether you think I look like the quarterback or not, I never felt like I look like the quarterback.

[529] So I'm like, I got to have a pretty tight fucking vocab game.

[530] So here I am with my roommate and his even alpha year carpenter contractor guy.

[531] And after the bachelor party and we got, it was like a bachelor party weekend.

[532] I remember the guy.

[533] Kind of an alpha move right there.

[534] Yeah.

[535] A whole weekend.

[536] You're going to claim a whole.

[537] Whole, my wife.

[538] Don't get me started.

[539] I told my wife was even having a bachelor party, shoot a laughter, self -silly, much less a fucking weekend with the bros. That's so funny.

[540] I didn't either.

[541] I don't think I had one.

[542] Oh, I probably didn't.

[543] I'm forgetting.

[544] I didn't, but whatever.

[545] Anyway, I've gone to Bachelor parties.

[546] I've been the guy that brought cigars, and I remember vividly some of the guys getting sick because I didn't smoke cigars.

[547] And I was like, this is what we're doing.

[548] Don't you understand?

[549] I'm hitting you in the face with my balls right now.

[550] It's so childish.

[551] I'm not proud of any of that, and that was over 10 years ago.

[552] But that's what a cigar is.

[553] Can you handle the nicotine of 75 cigarettes in a sitting?

[554] Really quick.

[555] Because I can, and that means I can, like, take care of my kids.

[556] Every culture.

[557] Every culture has a ritualized act of courage that men do to prove to other men, you can trust me in combat, out on a hunt.

[558] Interesting.

[559] This is, we are evolved to display this loyalty to one another.

[560] And we're kind of out of the old ways.

[561] We're not going to hit each other over the head with boards to do that or get fucking insane plate tattoos in our head, you know.

[562] Right.

[563] So we're going to smoke cigars and drive fast cars and all this bonkers stuff.

[564] And it's just we want, I want you to know I will die with you in battle.

[565] Right.

[566] I just think it's dangerous to, I think you're right that everyone, men, women, everyone, everyone when they're young, figure out the thing that is attractive about them and lean into that.

[567] And if you're smart, you exacerbate those qualities and minimize the other ones.

[568] You gave another example.

[569] Yeah, we won't say.

[570] It's not fair to say because he doesn't think something's funny that you do think is funny, that he is compensating or he's leaning into this, like, super liberal thing that he thinks is attractive.

[571] I think maybe early on, he recognized this is a part of my personality that's bright and shiny and attractive.

[572] But that doesn't mean he's insincere when he's doing that.

[573] Now that's all part, that is his personality.

[574] But I think what might be missing from what we're saying is that I don't think it's necessarily scheming or Machiavellian.

[575] It becomes an instinct at a certain point.

[576] You're just doing, like in the way that I'm trying to be polite right now.

[577] I'm not trying to have sex with anybody, anybody.

[578] Right.

[579] But I do, by habit, try to, because I want this podcast to be good.

[580] Yeah.

[581] You know what I mean?

[582] Yeah, that's what I mean.

[583] I'm not being an asshole by one.

[584] wanting the show to be good by kind of talking.

[585] And also there's a part of me watching my talking, going like, don't be too cocky, don't interrupt too much.

[586] That doesn't mean it's insincere.

[587] I guess the bigger question is, is there any true selfless kind act that you can do?

[588] Well, there's a motivation behind everything we do, right?

[589] I agree with that.

[590] But I don't think the motivation is always pussy.

[591] I agree with you.

[592] I think really what you're talking about, I think, is acceptance.

[593] Mm -hmm.

[594] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[595] We've all been there.

[596] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[597] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[598] like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[599] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[600] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[601] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[602] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[603] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[604] What's up, guys?

[605] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[606] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[607] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[608] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[609] And I don't mean just friends.

[610] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[611] The list goes on.

[612] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[613] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[614] The thing I really wanted to get to is I have to assume that your suburb of Boston is a little bit like my suburb of Detroit.

[615] And because you chose this lane and you're also a big guy, you're tall.

[616] Did guys fuck with you?

[617] Because I think there's this misnomer that, oh, if you're big, you don't get bullied.

[618] But weirdly, a lot of guys are trying to prove themselves by attacking the big guy.

[619] So did you, could you stay in that lane peacefully?

[620] Yeah, in a prison situation, I'd be the wise choice.

[621] you want, like, someone that's actually large but easy to take down, I'm your guy.

[622] That happened a little bit, but this actually goes to the punchline of that story with the Bachelor weekend, is that at the end of the weekend, and these are his words, not mine, and we were young men, he was like, Jesus, if I could talk like Pete talks, I could fuck anybody.

[623] He could, he basically said this to me, and I just couldn't, I never occurred to me. I never, it crystallized what was happening as what we're talking about is he was like, if I could talk how you could talk, I could go up to any girl and this, I don't think that's true, but he was like, and I could woo them with my smarts.

[624] And I was like, oh, that's my, this was a guy who in the course of the weekend, like a TV broke and he got in his truck and he went and bought another TV.

[625] Bella Tree.

[626] And he installed it.

[627] He's like a fucking guy.

[628] And then I was like, oh, like what I, like Val and I talked, we were having a great conversation today.

[629] And I was like, this is what, this is what I offer.

[630] I called the handyman to fix a very simple piece of leaking pipe this morning that other people probably would have known to shut the water off and fix it.

[631] But I just call a guy.

[632] Sure.

[633] But that's sort of like an open move, the dad that won't stop and ask for directions.

[634] I go hard the other way, and that starts to become appealing as well.

[635] And then being able to talk and to communicate becomes its own type of alfiness.

[636] Well, that's kind of the stand -up comedy.

[637] There's Joe Rogan, there's Bill Burr.

[638] there's a lot of like real men's men, but in the real, in the nerd scene, if you can pick a restaurant that you want to eat that quickly or put up a boundary, you're the silverback very quickly.

[639] So I sort of found my small farm.

[640] If I can just be like, I don't want Chinese.

[641] Like you're the king.

[642] God, that guy's decisive.

[643] I'd love to see his balls.

[644] But that kind of goes into something else that I think is interesting.

[645] And I'm trying, as I get older, I'm coming to terms with the fact i've always said that i'm not a competitive person you could do a super cut of my podcast of me saying i'm not a competitive i can't believe that's possible but it's it's true in some ways and then the more i'm quiet with it the more i'm like that's absurd yeah probably just in the conventional ways you're not competitive right and i don't i don't have contentment issues i don't compare my career to other people's careers i'm sort of like i don't even deserve credit for that it's just something that sort of happens i have a good amount of equanimity and that's because I've got a lot of good love in my life, like Valerie, and I have values and things that are fed outside of show business, and that's taken a lot of work and all that sort of stuff.

[646] So I don't do that.

[647] But there is a child in me. My id is very childish and wants everyone to love him and present him with gifts.

[648] He's in there.

[649] I think of him as Daniel Plainview.

[650] I think of my ego as Daniel Plainview.

[651] From there, I'll be blood.

[652] Yeah, yeah.

[653] I'm feeding the Plainview tonight.

[654] You know what I mean?

[655] But then the other glimpse I can get at him is like doing stand -up.

[656] Because now when they say Bill Cosby was so awesome is that he would sit down in a chair, which is like already a super beta move.

[657] Like it's a not, it's not a command presence.

[658] And just to make that choice right of the gates, it's not.

[659] He's also super slow.

[660] I really learned something we always have to say this, Bill Cosby's a monster and a rapist.

[661] Yeah, piece of shit.

[662] A fuck that.

[663] He's a shit.

[664] And that's real.

[665] And the special himself, he's so slow at the beginning.

[666] I don't know if he's smoking a cigar in that special.

[667] But he did sit down.

[668] This is the beginning of the show.

[669] Most of us come out to like, dang it.

[670] Dan, man. And Bill Cosby comes out.

[671] They're cheering and he sits down and he does or doesn't light a cigar.

[672] And he sort of tells his first joke.

[673] and I feel this.

[674] He almost seems to get tired during the telling of it, right?

[675] He does.

[676] It's very, it's like, I notice that the people, it's very, but that's so alpha.

[677] It's so alpha to be quiet.

[678] Quiet.

[679] I have a bit called quiet as cool.

[680] It never works.

[681] But quiet is cool.

[682] Think of Denzel watching.

[683] He's like, that's you, that's you, all right.

[684] Because the quiet guy in the jungle isn't giving away your position.

[685] Yeah.

[686] You know what I mean?

[687] Like, you want, you don't want, think of a nerd.

[688] Hey guys!

[689] That's a nerd.

[690] Like, he's ruining everything.

[691] Like, you just gave up your lunch table.

[692] And everyone can see we're with you.

[693] You fucking nerd.

[694] And then he does the first joke, and then he acts surprised that they laughed.

[695] And I think that is such good acting.

[696] Uh -huh.

[697] As somebody, I know he's done that act a thousand times by the time he's filming it.

[698] And he tells the first joke and they laugh.

[699] And he goes, like a big Cosby face, like, oh.

[700] you're listening and that's when you got him right so that's that's a that's something i learned from that rapist when did you start doing stand -up i believe it was that's a i think it was around 2000 to 1999 2000 okay so i'm doing it 18 30 you been in 80 so you were 21ish yeah that's about right okay it's some quick math monica so what it is he's 39 and i deducted okay so uh i thought you read my mind What if that's even more plausible to you than someone being able to subtract quickly?

[701] Oh, this motherfucker's a tell.

[702] Occam's razor, he read my mind.

[703] But that was, stand -up was an acceptable and a polite way to be to everybody has, not everybody, but some of us have these deeply competitive, deeply aggressive feelings.

[704] I would play basketball, I've told this joke before, I wouldn't count points I would count friends I had made.

[705] It was just about hanging out.

[706] I was never, I would sometimes win the game or lose the game.

[707] and I didn't know the game was almost over.

[708] I just didn't get that stuff.

[709] Sure.

[710] But stand -up was the place where my plane view could come out.

[711] And he wanted to tear...

[712] Like, when I was young, I wanted to tear the motherfucker down.

[713] I had a lot of anger.

[714] You don't listen to that much punk rock if you're not, like, a little bit angry.

[715] And I wanted to exercise some feelings.

[716] My parents were not...

[717] More specifically, my father wasn't a great, like, listener.

[718] And is he a funny man?

[719] Yeah, he's a ham.

[720] He is.

[721] And so is there room for your personality in that house with another huge one?

[722] So this is where the competitiveness, I mean, if you were just going to be heard at the dinner table, you're going to have to have some angle.

[723] Well, there's a Bible story.

[724] Everyone turns this thing off.

[725] It's an Old Testament story.

[726] Everybody's more comfortable with the Jewish one.

[727] They belong to everybody.

[728] Traditionally, three religions claim the Old Testament.

[729] So it's Jacob and Esau, and I won't ask you if you're familiar with it, and it's almost over.

[730] Jacob and Issa is the story of these two brothers.

[731] Esau is red and hairy, so he's Alpha, and he's a hunter, and he goes out with his father and he kills things with his bare hands of making the story better.

[732] The Bible needs to be punched up.

[733] So he's going out and he's just like drinking blood, and he's like, it says in the Bible, he's red.

[734] He's like literally his skin is red.

[735] And then there's Jacob.

[736] And Jacob, they said, these are quotes.

[737] is a dweller of tents so he's an indoor kit would be a big Xbox live guy sure and hung out with his mother uh -huh and I was Jacob so my my brother was kind of is hairy he's actually kind of red too okay and bonded with my father uh -huh and I was he an athlete um more than I was yeah yeah the the revelation that um little league wasn't working or being obsessed with the Red Sox wasn't actually getting my father's attention in the way.

[738] that it might appear to, um, I was going for the good stuff.

[739] I wanted to be deeply listened to.

[740] I wanted to be unconditionally loved.

[741] I wanted to be known.

[742] All that sort of stuff.

[743] I, so I was like, that seems like bullshit.

[744] And this is the story of Jacob and he said Jacob made a pact basically with his mother.

[745] And they ended up, um, stealing the blessing from the father.

[746] The father was going blind.

[747] And Jacob, it's actually kind of funny, puts, uh, animal skins on his arms.

[748] So they're hairy and sneaks in and lies and is like, I'm Esau.

[749] And there's a big deal in the Old Testament days.

[750] The father gives Esau the blessing, but is really Jacob.

[751] And then he thrives.

[752] He comes Jacob that you know about.

[753] That's sort of what happened is I learned that through communication, through listening, through personality, and through a little bit of conniving, not that I stole it from my brother, I realized that that was how I could be, how I could get attention and stuff.

[754] And in the long game, I finally did get it from my father.

[755] But it was only, once I started doing things that paid a lot of money, then you could go, you know, I did this and he was like, where does I pay, Peter?

[756] And he'd be like, that's $2 ,000 for a left -handed much.

[757] He's like, what's that?

[758] Oh, shit.

[759] Then he understood.

[760] You know, it's impolite to talk about money, but with dad's, it's sort of the only way.

[761] It's the only way to his heart.

[762] I think it always drove my dad nuts and right until the end that I wouldn't just tell him the exact number of my bank account that's hilarious and by the way i probably would have let him indulge in that but i knew he would tell everyone he knew because he would want to get the attention for himself somehow like there was nothing that i could give to him that he wouldn't immediately incorporate into his own attention seeking well that's sort of the narcissism of maybe both of our dads is that once i became and i say this with love i love my dad this isn't like yeah once i became something he could brag about he had a way to interact with me and enjoy me yeah that he'd didn't quite understand when I was a kid in my PJs with my keyboard, improvising songs in the hallway interrupting his baseball game.

[763] Do you think he thought you were gay at any point?

[764] I'm really surprised he didn't.

[765] Uh -huh.

[766] I was like, all my friends were girls.

[767] Okay.

[768] I traded stickers with the girls.

[769] I love girls.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Which is weird that that's a hint that you're gay.

[772] You know what he mean?

[773] Like, in international sort of thing.

[774] Like, he doesn't, he doesn't, exactly.

[775] Yeah.

[776] It's like on The Simpsons, you kissed a girl, that's so gay.

[777] That's sort of, the girls were talking.

[778] They were talking.

[779] Right.

[780] And if they're talking, I could be funny.

[781] Yeah.

[782] So whether or not he thought I was gay, but I was also like pretty sexual and would ask him to buy me pornography.

[783] Because again, I was the Jacob.

[784] So I was like, I want pornography.

[785] This is pre -internet.

[786] Okay.

[787] And I would just ask him.

[788] I'd go, dad, would you please buy me a playboy.

[789] Oh, great.

[790] Seventh grade or something.

[791] You know, weirdly, that's something we share in comment, is that I stole a playboy or two from my grandpa, my papa, Bob.

[792] And I was looking at it at the dinner table.

[793] And my mom came and sat down, and my brother, who was five years older than me, is like waiting for her to yell at me. And he goes, aren't you going to say anything to him?

[794] She's like, naked people.

[795] He's going to see him eventually.

[796] Like, I was allowed to look at play by Francis McDermott.

[797] A thousand percent.

[798] Great casting.

[799] Absolutely.

[800] Brandy McDoward.

[801] That's so funny because my dad was going to do it.

[802] So my dad was more of the Francis McDermott.

[803] He was, this is the 80s.

[804] So it was not as sensitive or woke as we are now.

[805] So he was just flat out thrilled that his son wasn't gay.

[806] Sure, sure.

[807] So he was probably maybe a little aware with my love of music and theater and being silly.

[808] Yeah, he's probably relieved on some level.

[809] Yeah, I wore a lot of rayon.

[810] Okay.

[811] I mean, I loved, like, wearing, like, acid -washed jeans and slap bracelets.

[812] So my mom, though, who is super religious, told my dad not.

[813] Is that why you know the Bible?

[814] It's weird to me that you know passages of the Bible.

[815] I didn't say the chapter and verse.

[816] That would have been, like, super cool.

[817] Psalms 12, 13.

[818] But do you know it?

[819] Deuteronomy 17.

[820] I could guess Genesis 20 is Abraham and Isaac, so it's got to be after that.

[821] What a lovely story that is.

[822] I mean, that's not enough to make you put the book down.

[823] I don't know what could be.

[824] Who gets to that story in the Bible?

[825] Bible's like, all right, so God, the God we worship is going to make me kill my child to prove I love them.

[826] That's so far.

[827] Yeah, let's keep going.

[828] This sounds like.

[829] And he would have done it.

[830] On the news season of crashing, one of the story arcs is that I start doing a Christian tour and I do this whole, the reason I know it's Genesis 20 is, I do a whole routine about how fucked up Abraham and Isaac is.

[831] And it's like, it's a whole to do.

[832] Sean Hayes did this play, this one man play, God, can you hear me or something?

[833] Or no, it's me, God or something.

[834] He was playing God, and boy, they got into that story.

[835] Oh, really?

[836] I mean, it's fucking bonkers.

[837] It's as a metaphor, it's beautiful.

[838] Why?

[839] It's the worst metaphor I've ever heard, is that someone would require a view to prove your love to them.

[840] That right there, out of the gates.

[841] That's completely flawed in the opposite of antithesis of unconditional.

[842] I hear what you're saying.

[843] Okay.

[844] But I've reacted.

[845] Now, go ahead.

[846] No, no, I agree with you.

[847] And I'm not a fundamentalist and I'm not saying it says that and therefore it has to be good.

[848] We can cut shit and say that's not good.

[849] And I'm not an expert on myth.

[850] You know, the metaphor being, our attachments and our worldly desires are like a firstborn son.

[851] That's the analogy.

[852] The metaphor is our attachments and our desires are your firstborn son.

[853] Well, hold on.

[854] Who says it's a metaphor?

[855] I feel like that is a last ditch effort to give some semblance of fucking humanity to that story.

[856] Yes.

[857] Yeah, it's like how long after written before they go, oh, what they really mean is your attachment to your television?

[858] Well, you know, you start to get the feeling that you're dealing with metaphors and myths when snakes are talking and two people make everyone.

[859] You start to realize that you're dealing with a Semitic type, an ancient way of thinking.

[860] Okay.

[861] That is less concerned with what we consider truth, rational truth.

[862] Yeah.

[863] So we're dealing with trans rational truth.

[864] But also just to counter the notion that we're so attached to our worldly possessions.

[865] Let's go back to 3 ,000 BC.

[866] People didn't have shit.

[867] You had a yak -skin water sack.

[868] There's no way people were so attached to their shit.

[869] There wasn't even consumerism yet.

[870] But that's what makes it a good, to me, an interesting metaphor, that you have to give up everything.

[871] And I'm talking about an internal attachment.

[872] I'm not talking about the new iPod.

[873] I'm talking about my attachment to my own identity is in the way of my understanding of God, of my union with God.

[874] My understanding of who I am in this world and that this is my son and this is my family and this is what's going to happen is in the way of my connection with a God that seems to be sort of outside of our minds, doing things that we don't understand and dancing in a way that we don't comprehend.

[875] Sure, but I would argue your connection to your son is the only road that could even potentially lead me to the belief in a God.

[876] It's almost the opposite of that.

[877] That's why it's a good story.

[878] Yeah.

[879] We wouldn't be talking about this story.

[880] And any good Jewish person.

[881] would tell you that this conversation is the point of the story.

[882] And if it wasn't about God asking you to kill your son, would you debate it for thousands of years?

[883] I don't think you would.

[884] Well, that's a strong argument.

[885] Give up your yak.

[886] It would be like, it's a story about a guy who kills this yak.

[887] People were already killing their yaks.

[888] Yeah.

[889] And look at what happens in the New Testament.

[890] God's, you know, I also believe this could be a metaphor.

[891] Sacrifices his son.

[892] It's all about giving things up, giving up yourself, giving up your ego.

[893] and that's a very eastern idea when you zoom out.

[894] You think it's supposed to just what it's serving as a launching point to discuss morality more than a conclusion.

[895] It's like what we're saying about Republicans and Democrats being imperfect.

[896] So here's an imperfect story.

[897] Nobody, that's what makes Jesus so compelling is that he's crucified.

[898] He's handsome as fuck too.

[899] He's very handsome.

[900] Very good carpenter.

[901] He's up there with Bob Vee.

[902] People underestimate his carpentry skills.

[903] How did you say Vila?

[904] Via.

[905] Via.

[906] He's up there with Bob Via.

[907] Yeah.

[908] But suffering and dying isn't perfect.

[909] That brings it into a human realm, and that makes it more interesting to discuss.

[910] By the way, I don't care if you want to throw the whole Bible away.

[911] I don't give a shit.

[912] I'm just saying, I like that story.

[913] Just not your Bible.

[914] We'll have to pry it from your cold dead hands with your revolver.

[915] But my mom was religious and didn't want me to have a playboy.

[916] That's how we got there.

[917] Okay.

[918] And when you were 21, you started doing stand -up, and were you in great fear of it like I was?

[919] Did it scare the fuck out of you?

[920] Um, yeah, of course.

[921] It's so scary, right?

[922] It's still, I hate if someone comes up to me and goes, like I'm doing the show Hot Tub tonight, Monday.

[923] And they go, uh, I see you're on Hot Tub on Monday.

[924] You say that to me on Thursday?

[925] Your weekends run.

[926] I want to slice you with a samurai sword.

[927] I fucking hate your face.

[928] And people think they're being nice.

[929] And people think that I'm sort of potentially living, I've been doing it for 18 years, in a place where.

[930] that's not scary, and I'm going to be honest with you, it's not scary, but I don't like thinking about, it's like saying, hey, I see you're flying to Denver at 6 a .m. on Monday.

[931] You know what I mean?

[932] It's like, I don't want to think about all the things that I have to do.

[933] Oh, that makes me go, oh, I got a pack.

[934] I got to check in the night before because I don't want to get there at 5am and have it, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[935] So I don't want people pushing.

[936] So I still have some anxiety about stand -up.

[937] But the sort of interesting paradox of that is you need it.

[938] It's one of the fuels that makes you well look i've had a lot of jobs where the outcome was highly predictable you know if i'm if i'm pounding fucking flashing in with a penny nail i know it's probably going to happen if i hit the nail correctly with the hammer yep whereas your job at any given moment and i'm sure does occasionally this goes completely sideways right i had a show recently you're never but that's again that's probably why you love it it's infinitely you got to earn the approval every fucking time now what is your trajectory from you you build a uh a stand -up career and you do quite well as a stand -up you can be very comfortable just doing that yeah right and i'm sure you could have done that and what propelled you into creating the show well stand -up is your wife and then everything else is you have a lot of mistresses so but stand -up my approach is i always like the term i don't like the term comic i always like the term comedian because i just like doing comedy so like i always i was doing stand -up but it was actually aziz aziz was one of those guys one of the first guys that was doing sketch as well like he would shoot videos and i've said i haven't told this story in a while so i haven't used this term in a while i would start burger kinging people burger king burger king just like, well, here's where McDonald's is.

[939] Sure.

[940] We'll open nearby.

[941] Because of the internet and stuff, I started to notice my friend, Ryan Ridley, like I mentioned, disease.

[942] There are all these other ways to get content out there.

[943] And I've always said this, nobody believes you can do anything.

[944] I always thought I was a good comedic actor because I always used to make little videos with my friends.

[945] And I always love that stuff because I just love comedy.

[946] Yeah, yeah.

[947] I also like the rhythm I get in when I'm writing a sketch or writing a script or whatever does.

[948] But I did these things for college humor.

[949] Which is huge.

[950] Ten of them.

[951] And they were huge.

[952] It was like this really.

[953] So then when you're trying to write for a TV show, your agents also send a link to like a really funny Batman's sketch.

[954] And that helped over.

[955] That's super helpful.

[956] Doors as well.

[957] Open doors.

[958] It's okay.

[959] You know what I mean?

[960] Doors are real.

[961] You feel on the outside, doors are very real.

[962] But then all the while doing stand up.

[963] Is it layered though?

[964] Is part of it like?

[965] You have this healthy love for it.

[966] And then is another part, like Monica and I talk about this all the time.

[967] She'll have a fucking audition in Santa Monica at 5 p .m. for Colgate.

[968] And she does not want to go, nor does she need to, because maybe she already has three commercials running.

[969] I laughed because Santa Monica.

[970] Oh, I see.

[971] Not at your predicament.

[972] Oh.

[973] I like that you thought I was just laughing at you.

[974] Imagine.

[975] Can you even believe it?

[976] No, I think a joke is Monica went to Santa Monica.

[977] I'm like, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[978] So Monica's in Santa Monica.

[979] Uh -huh.

[980] So, and she'll walk me through it and she'll go, if I don't drive to Santa Monica at five for something I don't want to do, then my good ju -ju is going to disappear entirely.

[981] Because I've gotten too big for my britches.

[982] And we have this, like, this relationship we think we have with luck.

[983] Yeah, negotiating our luck with the world.

[984] You want to stay low.

[985] You just feel like it's all going to run out if you make a best selfish move.

[986] I understand.

[987] Like, it's almost a sign of cockiness that you might value your life a little bit more than that drive to Santa Monica for Colgate.

[988] And then something in the back of your mind goes, well, if I, if I do that, then I'm never going to work again because I've just shown that I'm entitled and I'm not humble anymore.

[989] It's leaving your wife.

[990] Right.

[991] So I'm wondering, yeah, if, like, part of it is you love it and all that.

[992] And another part of it is, like, a superstition almost.

[993] I don't have superstitious or supernatural feelings about it, although I do know what you're talking about.

[994] You don't want to send something like that.

[995] into the universe but yeah doing stand up to me as a drive sometimes to santa monica at five o 'clock where you're like prove you're still humble and hungry i look at it as honoring past me past me did all this work sometimes past me looks at me and he's just like what the fuck is your problem oh not even in a bad way but sometimes i'll complain like i complained to you didn't i no that was another guess that your money counter broke is that you're talking about that your cash counterbrough broke right at the million mark and now i have to you got to throw a whole bag away through all i i don't want to count this again i just burned it with my money burned it was either that or that you'd put the you didn't put premium fuel in your Lamborghini and it was sputtering hilarious hilarious sometimes former me will hear me go like i don't want to go all the way to the comedy store and he's he's just sort of like he's not mad at me he's just like we used to be outside and now you're inside.

[996] It's a helpful exercise of gratitude.

[997] But really the main reason isn't superstition and it isn't trying to stay low, as I keep calling it.

[998] It's because I really do need it.

[999] And I think maybe I mentioned this vow will say to me, I think you need to do a show.

[1000] They're your AA meetings.

[1001] They're my A. As we realize, my wife will occasionally go like, I think you need to go to your Tuesday meeting.

[1002] Like, she'll remind me, oh, you're due for a checkup.

[1003] And that's for you, your...

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] I get offstage and I feel I've never done cocaine.

[1006] I'm like, I think I just did...

[1007] It's better than cocaine.

[1008] It's self -generating.

[1009] There's no low.

[1010] Well, it's not better than cocaine.

[1011] I've done both.

[1012] But it is great.

[1013] It is very good.

[1014] But what is it do you think?

[1015] Because another thing you said is you quit drinking a year ago.

[1016] So clearly, people who don't need to quit drinking generally don't quit drinking.

[1017] It's rarely a coincidence.

[1018] Someone quits drinking.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Right.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] So you probably drank in some way that was minimally below your expectations.

[1023] Yeah, it wasn't.

[1024] That's me. Yeah.

[1025] And so are you, do you, I know that you're into Buddhism, philosophy, a lot of different, I'll generalize and say seeking things.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] I like that.

[1028] Do you believe, do you think you have a handle and what is at the core of all that?

[1029] Of the drinking?

[1030] All of it.

[1031] All of it.

[1032] Needing to go do stand up to keep your, let's just.

[1033] to say that a lot of people don't need to regulate their mood with something else.

[1034] Yeah, that's interesting.

[1035] So just I would say the fact that you recognize and can admit your mood needs regulation through this activity.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Are you curious?

[1038] Do you think you just biochemically maybe are prone to depression?

[1039] Have you had trauma?

[1040] It's anxiety and trauma.

[1041] Okay.

[1042] So we were talking about this today actually feels like a bee in my belly.

[1043] I have a bee in my belly.

[1044] Yes.

[1045] And that's what anxiety feels like.

[1046] Or it feels like the sparks that come off chains.

[1047] If a chain is being dragged by a pickup truck, those sort of like, it's like, I also have a joke where I go, my anxiety sounds like a Dave Matthews band jam session, just like too many fiddles, 29 symbols and stuff.

[1048] There's just all these things going on.

[1049] So right there is the most basic response is I have a bee in my belly.

[1050] I go do stand up and I don't for days.

[1051] It's like a wonderful.

[1052] And then the deeper sort of answers, you know, there was drinking in my house.

[1053] So there was a lot of like figuring out what things meant.

[1054] I became very good at figuring out how people - Where things were going.

[1055] Feel where they're going.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] Break the tension with humor.

[1058] Out of necessity.

[1059] Out of necessity.

[1060] Out of my own survival.

[1061] Out of my own, I had a bald spot on the side of my head.

[1062] Out of stress, I know it was very sad.

[1063] The girls ask if they could touch it?

[1064] No girls were talking to me. I don't know what they were saying.

[1065] They were over there.

[1066] So did you feel like because you believed in God that if you stayed the course, she'd be vindicated because I think that could have been helpful for me to go like yeah yeah you're getting shit on but you know what the meek will inherit the earth you're going to get rewarded at some point are we on a mount right now I love quoting scripture but guys you'd be the scariest christian can you promise me to never become a Christian guys I'm going to hit you with some scripture you would be the scariest tall mussely Christian Deuterotomy, 13 .7.

[1067] Oh my God.

[1068] I know you.

[1069] I would cast you as a Christian guy.

[1070] Oh, good.

[1071] Like a groovy kind of, but like underneath it all, it's not great.

[1072] I also was looking for standup and church gave me something similar, which was being listened to.

[1073] You know what I mean?

[1074] So the church was like a group of people like religiously obliged to be kind.

[1075] I sort of took advantage.

[1076] Not in a bad way.

[1077] In the way you're supposed to, like I could kind.

[1078] I could kind of.

[1079] be myself in church.

[1080] Church is actually where I first started getting up Bill Cosby again.

[1081] I would get up and do my Bill Cosby impression or I would tell a story from a mission trip that I had been on and I would get my first laughs.

[1082] I did an impression of the youth pastor.

[1083] That was like a very safe place for me because it's the minor leagues.

[1084] I mean, high school felt like the major leagues and youth group was just sort of like, oh, these are just like the nice kids.

[1085] Yeah, yeah.

[1086] It's like performing in front of your family.

[1087] Exactly.

[1088] It was very safe.

[1089] But I was also looking for father figures.

[1090] My dad was great.

[1091] But I loved that there were like these Bob Vila types, like male leaders, that were very nurturing.

[1092] And they loved God.

[1093] And my dad is not religious.

[1094] So it was very interesting to meet men that were kind of like my mother.

[1095] And there's always something kind of going on there, which like, mom would get along great with pastor.

[1096] Like I was pastor was my dad.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] Psychology going on there.

[1099] Stay tuned for more of ArmChic.

[1100] expert if you dare what i also recognizing you that we have in common is it appears to me that it requires a lot of self -evaluation to keep yourself like if you just leave yourself to your own demise it's going to end up in a negative place right well that goes to the drinking yeah it's like people like us i think we have this in common enjoy going in, figuring out, tweaking the levels.

[1101] And it's not about, it's not this, I like Tim Ferriss, but it's not, I don't get the vibe from him that I get from me. Like there's Tim, you know who Tim Ferriss?

[1102] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1103] Tim Ferriss to me and Anthony Robbins to me seem like these sort of perfection warriors.

[1104] I enjoy them as well, but that is not what I'm, I don't want the people listening to mistake me for that.

[1105] I, it's, it's so much less sexy and kind of together.

[1106] And it's not this pursuit of perfection.

[1107] it's just more of a quiet keeping yourself out of the ditch exactly it's more radio head than that yeah so much more wounded than that and and so i i have like you know it's it's kind of a full -time job and then occasionally i i zoom out above my own head and i'm like this must be so annoying to such a large section of the world to see how much because really at the at the bottom of it would appear at least that it's just narcissism it's like i have to be i have to be a self -evaluation all the time, be super aware of how I'm coming across all the time.

[1108] I have to do all these things to keep myself out of the ditch.

[1109] I guess what I'm wondering is, is there any part of your brain that occasionally sees somebody that you have evaluated right or wrong is just simply cruising through life?

[1110] They're not introspecting every five seconds.

[1111] And they're not doing all this stuff.

[1112] And you just think to yourself, I guess it's kind of, I often come out on this side of philosophy at the very end of it.

[1113] It's like, well, you know what the real philosophy is?

[1114] Is, stop.

[1115] Stop asking, because there's no answer and you spend your whole life chasing your tail.

[1116] And just eat a sandwich, go to the next thing, do this.

[1117] I can't do it or I'll end up depressed.

[1118] But are you envious of other people that at least it appears?

[1119] One, no. And give me five minutes and I'll come up with 15 things that I think they should be thinking about.

[1120] Okay.

[1121] Even if they seem like fine.

[1122] And I'm not like a super critical.

[1123] I love Seinfeld.

[1124] Do you like Seinfeld?

[1125] I do, yeah.

[1126] And do you ever watch comedians and cars?

[1127] I do, yeah.

[1128] Right.

[1129] And he has this great.

[1130] Like, he's with Zach Galfanakis at one point.

[1131] And Zach is annoyed with people.

[1132] Yeah, Zach is annoyed with people filming him without his permission.

[1133] I too get annoyed by that.

[1134] And then I hear Jerry just go like, get over it.

[1135] Who gives a fuck?

[1136] I have no illusion of privacy out in the real world.

[1137] And I think, like, God, if he really thinks that, that seems liberating, I wish I could get there.

[1138] Yeah, but I think Seinfeld did get there.

[1139] This is one of the reasons I like that show.

[1140] And two, I think he worked really hard at it.

[1141] He just doesn't acknowledge that he does that work.

[1142] There's something about - Yeah, no, he keeps that part out of it.

[1143] He does, because even when he's on Stern, he'll really make fun of Stern about his psychotherapy.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] And yet somehow he does have some answers, Jerry.

[1146] I think he's doing the work himself.

[1147] He's kind of, everybody might have their own path, and we might be totally wrong.

[1148] But I would say, you know, it's interesting.

[1149] He said something on that show once that I just really repeat to myself all the time.

[1150] He's like, you know, we'll get there.

[1151] And if it's this, we'll deal with it.

[1152] like this idea like if it's closed we'll deal with it it's like such a great attitude well that's what i was going to say when you were saying you lament maybe driving to the comedy store the the thing i think is productive as opposed to me going well if i'm not humble all this will be taken from me opposed to that i'll go um nothing ever in life is as big as my fear of it is so i sit around and i i worry about things at night sometimes for two and a half hours but real things happen to me all the time.

[1153] Like I, you know, I was driving my car down the 405.

[1154] It fucking broke down.

[1155] I'm on the side of the highway at 9 .30 at night.

[1156] Now, that's something if I think about that happening to me, it seems like the worst thing.

[1157] And I could spend hours.

[1158] But I just went straight into like, solution mode.

[1159] Oh, I got to get a tow truck.

[1160] I got an Uber.

[1161] Ooh, this will be fun.

[1162] I never Uber.

[1163] When I'm in the actual situation, I can roll with anything and I love it.

[1164] And then if I just am honest about my history, very rarely have I been super uncomfortable in a situation.

[1165] That was just insufferable.

[1166] Yeah, that's right.

[1167] But regularly, my thoughts go to this insufferable place.

[1168] That's absolutely right.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] As we're about to have a child, I find people keep trying to impose this panic and fear on us.

[1171] And I understand it's going to be overwhelming and I understand we're not going to be sleeping very much.

[1172] But you're going to be there.

[1173] I take a lot of comfort in going, it'll be us.

[1174] It's not going to be dream Pete that has like shit on his hand for somewhere, like his own shit.

[1175] Oh, they love to say to you too, like you'll be out with, I'll be out with my beautiful little daughters.

[1176] They're so fun.

[1177] they're doing something so cute.

[1178] And the very first sentence out of someone's mouth is, wait to their teenager.

[1179] Yeah, shut the fuck up.

[1180] It's like, well.

[1181] Hit that person with a hockey stick.

[1182] I don't need it.

[1183] You know what it is?

[1184] That is the benefit to me of mindfulness of being there.

[1185] We're often casting the line out way ahead of us.

[1186] And we'll be there.

[1187] We'll be kind.

[1188] We'll be present.

[1189] Presence is huge.

[1190] Like so much of it is just like I will be present with my daughter and I will not panic.

[1191] Here's what's hard.

[1192] doing work you don't want to do that's hard i've done lots of work i didn't want to do a fucking detasseling corn 12 hours a day i did not want to do that yeah you want to change the diaper and cleaner a little butt and do all this shit like i can't wait to meet a little but those things aren't work those things are like being in love with an alarm clock that goes off every 90 minutes like but i love but people leave that out yes because they're trying to rush and get through it which also brings me the other thing and you're saying like we shouldn't waste our time uh and i i understand what you're saying, naval gazing and slicing everything and talking about everything way too much.

[1193] And I agree with that.

[1194] And I sometimes think that model is with the understanding that we're going to find an answer, whereas I would say that the questioning and the wrestling, something else Jacob did of Jacob and Esau fame, is the answer.

[1195] So this is a more mythic approach.

[1196] It's not that we're going to come at, oh, meditation and yoga and then we get enlightened or whatever it is.

[1197] It's more like, know the conversation and even the wondering if we're wasting our time by having the conversation is the point.

[1198] Well, it's, yeah, my life, my, my lifetime goal is to love process and not worry about results.

[1199] That's really like the, if I, it's a great goal.

[1200] Minimally when I'm happy is when I'm just enjoying the process and never, never thinking about the results.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] I actually think it's quite funny is that, uh, this is Ram Dass.

[1203] I almost made it the whole podcast without mentioning Ram Dass.

[1204] I mentioned Ram Dass Ropi here now.

[1205] And there's this thing...

[1206] Sam Harris is my Ram Dass, by the way.

[1207] So we all have...

[1208] We all have our guys.

[1209] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1210] He talks about...

[1211] It's really funny.

[1212] It's the idea that, like, you want ice cream, and then you eat ice cream, and then you want water, and then you have water, and then you want television, television, and then you get sleep, you have sleep, and then you want coffee.

[1213] And it's like, I think a lot of people sort of confuse the events of life as, like, life is what the point is.

[1214] The truth is, like, we should be sort of hovering over all of that.

[1215] The desires can be there, the attachment to them, and the attachment to their outcome is what you're surrendering.

[1216] So I want my car to start when I get in.

[1217] But if we can sort of step behind that desire and not be so attached to it, one of the practices that I have is called good episode.

[1218] So if my car breaks down, I'll actually say to myself, good episode out loud.

[1219] I'll go good episode.

[1220] Meaning, like, if this were an episode of TV, would be a good episode.

[1221] That's like a season finale.

[1222] Pete's car breaks down.

[1223] Or it's a good fun bottle episode.

[1224] Like, what's he going to do?

[1225] I think one of the reasons we like watching TV is because we can be dispassionate about it.

[1226] We care about it.

[1227] It's someone else's fucking dirty laundry to clean.

[1228] We are invested, though.

[1229] We care about them.

[1230] We cry and we laugh.

[1231] And so we're invested, but we also know that we're on the couch.

[1232] There's also something sort of going on similar with your awareness is that you're stuck in Dax, like you're in there and I'm in here.

[1233] But you're also sort of, of witnessing it and that's where some of the less attachment to your suffering comes and that's where a little bit of peace comes and when even like when my wife left me you can look at a moment like that and go like holy fuck what is pete going to do here and that does and you're referring to your show now well that really happened but yeah so you were married prior yeah yeah oh i didn't know that oh yeah no that's all for how long six years yeah six we were together for seven total that's a lengthy period a time.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] It was longer than college.

[1236] And how autobiographical is the show?

[1237] It's a comedy.

[1238] Yeah.

[1239] But it's a comedy about a guy crashing.

[1240] It's called crashing.

[1241] He's crashing on couch but he's also crashing in life.

[1242] It's one of those sort of there's cringe moments and there's like pain, but there's also like real drama.

[1243] Like I've pride on camera, I don't know, once a season.

[1244] Like it's not handmade stale where she cries every episode.

[1245] But it's like there's a lot of emotion happening in the show.

[1246] Judd Apatow produces your show, right?

[1247] That's right.

[1248] And that's What's his specialty, like comedy out of pain?

[1249] That's why I pitched it to him.

[1250] So him.

[1251] It wasn't like a, it wasn't like you can make this happen because you jet appetite.

[1252] It was like, I think this is like your sense.

[1253] So were you able to go into that relationship going, this guy knows something I don't know?

[1254] Like I know how to be me, but if I go through his.

[1255] I actually think that's one of, so this week, this Friday, we cut together this thing.

[1256] that I was like, this is my favorite, it's me doing stand -up.

[1257] It's this sort of like pivotal moment in the show.

[1258] It's like the finale of the last episode.

[1259] And it's this like, I go off script.

[1260] And on the day, I was improvising.

[1261] And we got there.

[1262] Like, we got to what we needed.

[1263] We needed this.

[1264] It wasn't supposed to be hilarious.

[1265] It was supposed to be heartfelt.

[1266] And it was supposed to wrap up a lot of strings in the season.

[1267] It was supposed to be a little existential.

[1268] And I got on the day, very difficult.

[1269] Lightning struck and you did it.

[1270] Lightning struck.

[1271] And without a script, I was so proud of myself, I made it happen.

[1272] The quality in the room, the air changed and everybody felt it.

[1273] Everybody at the monitors felt it.

[1274] And I was like, I've never done something like that where I feel like I was acting better because I was improvising and all this stuff.

[1275] And I was like, that's going to be the perfect way to end the season.

[1276] So we cut it together and we show it to Jed.

[1277] And he's just like, I don't think that's right.

[1278] Oh, wow.

[1279] And I'm, and because I trust him so implicitly, if anyone else had said that, I would have been like, well, you're wrong.

[1280] Sure.

[1281] Yeah.

[1282] He says it.

[1283] And my heart breaks a little bit.

[1284] And I would, I'll tell him that.

[1285] I'll be like, I really like this.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] But I see what happens, especially when people like me, creative types, manic types.

[1288] I get very excited about my own work.

[1289] Even as I'm telling you the story, I'm telling you how I made lightning strike in the room.

[1290] improvising on that day.

[1291] Well, does that any of that, is that in the show?

[1292] You know what I mean?

[1293] Are there going to be subtitles at the bottom that say Pete was improvising?

[1294] No, well, you could really feel it.

[1295] So here I am doing this thing that I'm like, this is my favorite thing in the world.

[1296] He says, I don't think it's right.

[1297] And then I just, I don't say this in the sad way.

[1298] I surrender to it.

[1299] And he helps me be my funniest and my best.

[1300] And then every once in a while, like a Zen master, actually, in a way that's very confusing to me. because I actually said when we edited it, I was like, there's no doubt in my mind Judd is going to love this.

[1301] And then he didn't.

[1302] And that's what Zen is.

[1303] It's like confusing the student.

[1304] But after I thought about it, I was like, he is doing the hard work of going, I'm protecting the show.

[1305] I know you're, he didn't say any of this.

[1306] I know you're proud of yourself.

[1307] Sure.

[1308] And that's a good late night panel story.

[1309] You've gotten married to this thing.

[1310] Yeah, good for you.

[1311] Oh, look at what a big boy you are.

[1312] you didn't even need a script yeah you're already writing your golden globe acceptance speech he doesn't give a fuck and that's one of the geniuses of jed yeah so did the show start off super autobiographical and then slowly the kind of life of its own and did you feel any moral complications with telling a story that was two people's story you mean my x -wife yeah i really is it an ammium We haven't talked in, I don't know, it's been a decade.

[1313] She had an affair and she left me. This is totally comfortable to talk about.

[1314] So I'm just sort of a black and white person and I, it's sort of a, I have enough friends that haven't cuckolded me. Right.

[1315] But, you know what I mean?

[1316] What are we going to get an ice cream cone?

[1317] And is that something?

[1318] I can beat it.

[1319] There's a beautiful, I'm only friends with like one of my exes.

[1320] For the most part, it's like, oh, we thought we were going to be together forever.

[1321] It didn't work.

[1322] And it's like, I'd rather not hang out.

[1323] Again, the yin and the yang.

[1324] I'm like great friends with all my ex -girlfriend.

[1325] Really?

[1326] Wow.

[1327] Were you completely broadsided by it?

[1328] Or did you have inklings of it?

[1329] You had no inkling.

[1330] I just, you know, I was 22 when I got married.

[1331] And I was 28 when she left.

[1332] Yeah.

[1333] And I just, it was a simpler time.

[1334] I was like, you get married and you're married.

[1335] Uh -huh.

[1336] I never.

[1337] Do you think you underestimated the?

[1338] amount of work that goes into being married i think i underestimated um how complicated a healthy relationship is how nuanced it is yeah because i thought we don't fight i don't uh i'm never mean we're always kind we're silly and we laugh yeah and i give her my time people always guess that it was because i was on the road all the time or something right i always get really mad at that because i wasn't working that much right so i was around a lot and And I wanted to be with her a lot.

[1339] It's unfortunate that she sort of gets painted maybe in her life with a broad brush because she had an affair and left.

[1340] Yeah.

[1341] And I've made this comparison before, but there's that Bob Dylan lyric in, if you see her, say hello.

[1342] And he says, if you see her, tell her, I always respected her in doing what she did and getting free.

[1343] Uh -huh.

[1344] So what was happening was, I wasn't seeing or acknowledging her in the fullness of who she was.

[1345] Uh -huh.

[1346] And I was actually - Were you a little consumed?

[1347] with starting this career and stuff?

[1348] Oh, yeah, that's the whole other tongue of this two -tong -tonger.

[1349] It was trying to, like, just sort of clip her wings and simplify her and put her on a pedestal and make her very sweet and safe and easy.

[1350] Which, as I were saying this, I'm like, Val is those things.

[1351] She is very sweet and safe and easy.

[1352] But my ex wasn't that.

[1353] So I was sort of treating her like what I wanted in hopes that she would be what I wanted.

[1354] and she's sort of, it's very passive, aggressive, and it's also just aggressive, but it seems sweet.

[1355] So I'm being...

[1356] Can I just say I'm very guilty of that too?

[1357] Where in the past, I have tried to, whether consciously or unconsciously, almost shape their personality so it'll fit perfectly into the role I need them to play in my life.

[1358] Well, we got married.

[1359] We got married because we had sex and I wanted to move to Chicago and I was religious.

[1360] Yeah.

[1361] So I'm in this.

[1362] So what I, did was not making excuses but what i was doing was to make it work in the ways i was 22 in the ways that i thought i was like i like sweet i like safe i don't want drama i don't want fighting um i'm threatened by by the way i'm also i'm tackling something that's incredibly scary and almost impossible to achieve at stand up or a career and show business so i want this other aspect of my life to be simple to be very simple it's like magnolia john c riley is like you know i have a enough drama in my work so i don't want to come home to it yeah yeah so it's that idea that i was also and i'm very open about this now my real love was comedy which is a a safer way of saying myself yeah but she broke up with me she actually said i don't want to be pete holmes's wife like that doesn't interest me i i completely understand that yeah so the fact that i was like she was sort of she very much enabled my stand -up and i think i mixed the love and gratitude dude i had for that like i wanted to move to chicago right i wanted to move to chicago do improv olympic in second city and get on s andl that was like my goal and i didn't want to go alone this is so embarrassing yeah and i'm dating a girl and we had had sex and when we had sex we got like engaged like we were going to do it i was like this sort of again i was 22 it's the only excuse i'm i'm 22 and i'm like well we'll get married and then i'll go it's scary when you've never been on the real world i also went to a christian college it was like a bubble it was so fucking safe and neutered i wanted to move to chicago and go every night into bars and trying to do stand up and improv yeah find an apartment get a car get a job to be alone on top of all those things and to be alone it was just like this is the the summation of why i think my first marriage didn't work is because i thought of it as a box that i had ticked yeah i went i have a wife yeah i think that's pretty common.

[1363] And then I think, too, the whole reason you end up taking ownership of your own mistakes is to, A, recognize what you need to make amends for to the other person.

[1364] But then once you've done that, that's, that steps required so that you can eventually get to the part where it's okay now to forgive 22 year old Pete.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] You know, it's not okay to forgive yourself before you've said sorry to the people that were the victim of that.

[1367] But once you've done that work and then you can actually go, and by the way, man, I was 22 and this is my first shot at all this and I fucked up and it's okay.

[1368] I'm a normal.

[1369] I'm just like everyone else.

[1370] Like that's the goal is to come out where you actually can forgive yourself.

[1371] Yeah.

[1372] You're sort of making me realize that there probably is a part of me that would want to talk to her and and apologize in that way.

[1373] Well, do you know, I think crashing kind of is sort of that.

[1374] It's this very weird backwards way of tying a message to a pigeon.

[1375] I don't know if she watched it, but if she did, I think she would see these little winks at like, I mean, the show opens with me disappointing her sexually and then disappointing her by leaving at like 3 o 'clock on a Sunday to do an open mic, and I'm just so oblivious about how she might be feeling, and I leave, and it cuts back to her on the couch looking like, what the fuck?

[1376] And the reason it cuts back is because I'm in the edit, I go now cut back to her on the couch like what the fuck like I'm involved in that shit I'm trying to keep us with her I've said many times I'm like in the story of my wife's divorce you're rooting for my wife to leave uh -huh and just because it's the last thing that I wanted to happen and even though technically and I made this point when we were breaking up I didn't do anything wrong I was nice to her sure I said you're trading good for potentially great because she had met this other guy And she was like, that's absolutely true.

[1377] Uh -huh.

[1378] But I do admire that.

[1379] She wanted something better.

[1380] And she saw, she sort of, I think she made the point.

[1381] She was like, you've already met the love of your life and it's comedy.

[1382] Uh -huh.

[1383] And then, like, I couldn't be as emotionally and relationally available as I am until I met Val, which was after I already had a talk show, which got a lot of the me, me -me -me -ness out of my system or at least taught me how to manage it.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] And then I had a podcast and a stand -up career, and these things were thriving.

[1386] And then when I could sort of relax, my plane view was fed, I could go, all right, now I can, what I've been doing for the past 10 years, which is focus on being a person apart from my show business.

[1387] And when you achieve those benchmarks and you actually don't feel different, it's a great opportunity to evaluate, oh, then what is going to make me feel different?

[1388] But you can, it's only a luxury of having found out the dream was false.

[1389] Like you said very funny on my podcast, you were like, if young Dax could hear me say a million dollars won't make you happy, he'd be like, shut the fuck.

[1390] Yeah, yeah, totally.

[1391] So you're right.

[1392] We have the good fortune of getting to the place.

[1393] What I've noticed isn't, it doesn't feel good to a certain extent, and I believe the number is 50 ,000, to a certain extent is making money and not having to worry about your needs being met.

[1394] Does feel great.

[1395] Oh, yeah.

[1396] Yes.

[1397] And the Sin of Malcolm Gladwell.

[1398] book i think for a family it even goes up to at least you're still finer plateauing at to 237 yeah and then it starts getting diminished return yeah it's also in the movie happy yes great great movie it's a great movie yeah so i so of course we yeah when you're need you need your needs to be met to me it's not uh status or money or fame or any of these things doing what i feel like i'm supposed to be doing and answering the phone that rings in my heart, that's where meaning comes from for me. It just so happens that making a TV show is wrapped up in that sort of stuff, but I'm not doing it.

[1399] But again, to circle back, it's actually the process that's giving you the esteem.

[1400] Did you then have a little bit of a laundry list of going into you and Vail's relationship that you said, I got to avoid a couple of these things?

[1401] well one of them to not repeat a pattern what the most important one was uh listen and let people be let people be who they actually are yeah and don't try to yeah it's so gross isn't it was to like kind of like whisper but again to forgive yourself to forgive yourself i know you're trying you're actually in search of making them predictable yeah because again you grew up you grew up in a lot of that's right but two i had met val in a way i had calmed down and I knew what my non -negotiables were.

[1402] And now I just, when I met Val, she already knew I was a comedian.

[1403] That was very, very helpful.

[1404] Uh -huh.

[1405] It's just the, it's the self -realized person.

[1406] It doesn't have to be comedian.

[1407] It's just like, these are the ABCs of Barry.

[1408] And Barry knows that he needs to fish one weekend a month.

[1409] You know what I mean?

[1410] Or he needs to be in the woodshed doing this thing or this.

[1411] And then you meet someone like Val, who does want to be Pete Holmes's wife, not because of the celebrity.

[1412] We don't give a fuck about the party.

[1413] We don't go to parties.

[1414] We don't go to gifting things whenever.

[1415] There's nothing fancy going on.

[1416] But she loves being in the car with me when I'm silly.

[1417] And we laugh.

[1418] And then I go, can you please email that to me?

[1419] Whatever I said.

[1420] She's in it.

[1421] She comes to the show.

[1422] I do it.

[1423] She's, I hear her laughing in the wings.

[1424] Everyone loves her more than me. There's no, and this is my wife.

[1425] Like, she's there.

[1426] You met her.

[1427] She's there.

[1428] Performers are.

[1429] drawn to her.

[1430] She's comforting and nurturing.

[1431] Everyone who I give a fuck about understands the beauty of Val.

[1432] And the fact that I met her fully cooked, I don't think I could have had a healthy relationship until I was like, I need people to know I'm a baseball player.

[1433] You know what I mean?

[1434] Right, right.

[1435] It was a comedian, but I need them to go.

[1436] That guy plays for the marriage.

[1437] It's like, I want them to know, like, it's embarrassing to talk about our egos, I suppose, but like my first wife and I were like, maybe we'll live in Woodstock, and we went to Woodstock, and the realtor, we couldn't afford anything in the woodside.

[1438] We had $3 ,000, $3 ,000 in the bank.

[1439] But they were like, this house belongs to Uma Thurman.

[1440] And I just remember quiet boys in my head going, like, I don't want to live somewhere until they go, do you like comedy?

[1441] This is Pete Holmes' house.

[1442] Like, it's gross.

[1443] Yeah, sure.

[1444] But like, I had something, the phone was ringing in my heart, and I maybe confused that with a desire for fame.

[1445] But I had spent enough motherfucking time.

[1446] making peace at my dinner table and i had spent enough motherfucking time lying that i was going to be a youth pastor at a lame -ass christian college being polite and shutting my fucking mouth and once i was out it was time to burn the goddamn barn down yeah and i should have been more honest about that with my ex -wife i should have been like i know i'm a sweet guy but yeah i have a huge axe strapped to my back and I'm going to run into that the Bavarian hordes or Bavarian cream pies.

[1447] I'm going to, I need to do some shit.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] But when I had met Val, the battle was over.

[1450] There were, there was dead lambs in our silo.

[1451] Uh -huh.

[1452] And I could just say, would you like to talk about the meaning of life?

[1453] Or would you like to be silly with no meaning?

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] I mean, that was the time when I was emotionally available.

[1456] And I think most careers require a pretty all in dedication to succeed at any whatever the career is.

[1457] And it can get dicey.

[1458] There was a deleted scene.

[1459] Lauren Lapkis plays my wife on the show, my ex -wife.

[1460] And I, it was very surreal to act out these fights that my ex and I had had.

[1461] It wasn't the words, but often some of the spirit was carried through.

[1462] And I was feeding her lines to say, it was actually things that I knew would make me cry because I had to cry or I wanted to cry in the scene.

[1463] And then I had her say, had her ask, me if you're holding me over the cliff and comedy in the other hand like which one do you pull up you can only like the good son yeah and i had to think about it and while i was thinking about it she just went uh like mine falling and that's that's what it was it's grotesque and it's not polite and it's a little bit embarrassing and it was my fucking love lifeline well i'm excited to talk to you again post baby p b because again, I'm going to be the annoying person that's already apparent.

[1464] But I think a lot of things will get crystal clear for you.

[1465] Oh, wow.

[1466] And they're the best things that can get crystal clear.

[1467] Oh, what fun.

[1468] Yeah, just everything getting their proportional right -sized importance.

[1469] Yes.

[1470] Happens like that.

[1471] Yeah.

[1472] So whatever you think comedy is and serves in your life and the being in the belly and all that shit.

[1473] Yeah.

[1474] My prediction is, again, when I just say, hey, when people meet you with your kids, wait till this, but I'm saying it now.

[1475] Yeah, that's fine.

[1476] That thing that was at 10, you'll now realize, was at its best of four.

[1477] You know?

[1478] Dude, that's what I want so bad.

[1479] It's so, again, for me, for a narcissistic egomaniac in search of endless approval, it was the antidote for me. People hate how much I rail on about having kids, but just for me personally, finally giving a shit about someone more than myself, it was so liberating to me. The whole pursuit of control needs to be checked.

[1480] It's actually not the state of being that's best for us, even though we have such an aversion to chaos.

[1481] It actually is beneficial.

[1482] Well, that's a very spiritual idea, too, is that pain, suffering, loss, and change are things that we should make friends with.

[1483] And I'm completely on board with that.

[1484] But I said to Henry Winkler, who did my podcast, I said to him, I was like, I was in my bathroom, I was meditating, and I, I wasn't being very good at it, I guess, because I couldn't stop obsessing about a nose hair I had.

[1485] And then I went into the bathroom and just spent way too long with a mirror, Val's like Vanity Mirror and her tweezers looking for this motherfucker.

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] And I'm plucking and I'm plucking and I'm crying because of plucking.

[1488] And I'm like, trying to see if it's still in there.

[1489] Reactivate it.

[1490] And then I'm holding my nose up like, cheap.

[1491] wig him like pig nose and i'm getting in there deep and and somewhere in the middle of that i just got i got to have some fucking kids and as i leave i tell henry winkler that story off mike and he goes and i like i i got have kids and he goes three years in you'll be plucking again i'm really i wanted to i just want to plug the book because you mentioned me stopping drinking yeah i don't have a sponsorship with this person right Yeah, because you don't go to AAA or anything.

[1492] No, I don't go to A .A. Yeah.

[1493] And I'm actually curious because you did go through the program.

[1494] Yeah, currently.

[1495] Oh, you're in the program, yeah.

[1496] Yeah, yeah.

[1497] The book is called This Naked Mind.

[1498] It's the first title.

[1499] Control Alcohol is the second title.

[1500] What I liked about the book for me was that it acknowledged the idea that you might be addicted to alcohol and you might have like been taken over by something that lied to you.

[1501] All of these things that are like, here's the marketing.

[1502] Here's what it does to you physiologically.

[1503] here's how people slowly drink more and more over time.

[1504] I wasn't like a 28 beers at the ball game alcoholic.

[1505] I was like a go home and have a bottle of wine every night kind of guy or more if it was like hard liquor.

[1506] I just like drinking at the end of the day.

[1507] Sure.

[1508] So nobody saw, you know, like it was very non -eventful and controlled.

[1509] And Valerie, this sounds defensive, but I mean it when I say Valerie wasn't like worried about my drinking.

[1510] It was very madman.

[1511] I come home, you pour the brown stuff.

[1512] Shut the racket off inside your head.

[1513] Exactly.

[1514] And I like to get a little piece.

[1515] And I actually have like really fond memories of playing video games on a Saturday and just drinking and just completely disappear.

[1516] It was great.

[1517] Camp being when you wake up and you start drinking right when you wake up.

[1518] What a day.

[1519] But then I noticed that it was start.

[1520] I was just losing control.

[1521] That's what I like the idea of this book is.

[1522] And this is the part that I'm not sure how AA people would feel about it.

[1523] But one of the things that appealed to me was that.

[1524] that it said, maybe this is my ego, but let's remove, you don't have to be an alcoholic to be addicted to alcohol.

[1525] For some reason, and maybe it was appealing, like I said, to my narcissism or my ego, it was just saying, who cares?

[1526] Let's just get you to not drink.

[1527] Sure.

[1528] For some reason, that helped me get in a little bit more.

[1529] First and foremost, I don't care how people quit drinking.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] I don't have stock in AA.

[1532] Yeah.

[1533] But I have noticed with a little bit of peculiarity that people are very hung up in a lot of the semantics of this stuff so right i've heard a lot of people be put off by a because you have to first admit you're powerless right and people are like well i'm not powerless over you know it's so triggering for them to be powerless yeah i'm fine with that one yeah to me like vulnerability is generally the answer to all things right uh and if you don't think you're powerless zoom out we're on a space right yes yes um never mind the solar system inside of you that could give you like an aneurysm or like anything at any moment the only thing i will the only thing i will argue against other approaches is i just as a rule of thumb like i believe in gravity i don't believe people think their ways into acting different i think they act their ways into thinking different so a program for quitting alcohol that doesn't involve some action i have a low expectation for now it does work for people and I would never tell someone it's not working for them.

[1534] But just in general, the thing I like about AA is it's not abstract.

[1535] Here's what you do.

[1536] Write this list.

[1537] Call this person.

[1538] Be available to this guy.

[1539] Take that person to a meeting.

[1540] Like there is a, you can't wake up one morning because you're so demoralized from the night before.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] And decide I'm going to permanently remember that I felt this demoralized in six years.

[1543] And then this will be sustainable.

[1544] For me, at least, I will forget six years later what it feels.

[1545] Of course you will.

[1546] But if I have actions that are part of my regular muscle memory and routine, those things will do the lifting for me. I hear that and I completely agree.

[1547] And I also do think that there is a lot to uncover of why drinking would appeal to you in the first place.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] I think I do believe that it is a symptom of a disease.

[1550] The disease isn't drinking.

[1551] That's just the symptom of this other disease we have.

[1552] Quite often, I'll go, because we always say like, why this alcoholic mind this alcoholic blank alcohol and i'll go this isn't alcoholism this is being human yeah these are human problems i think everyone could pretty much benefit from the steps right you know no i hear that i think here even though i'm agreeing with everything you're saying i would never go into that program because and right or wrong i never reached a place where i felt like oh no i don't have control over this or it's interfering with my life in any any way but again this is another stumbling block that's really popular or ubiquitous yeah but you can march that all the way to me watching a HBO documentary about drug addiction which i watch and there was a guy in new york city who would buy crack then he would melt the crack and shoot the crack up uh -huh and i could tell myself well fuck i've never melted crack down and shot it up maybe i'm not an addict like if if if if you can only define yourself that way in comparison to someone else saying it's lesser or more that it's so irrelevant the point is you either were using something that stopped working yeah for you or you weren't now what level that was is pretty immaterial in my opinion you were either trying to regulate the inside with something from the outside and it stopped working for you or you weren't and that's pretty much the definition that's what the difference is yeah yeah it's not like did you lose your job or you penniless it's did you regulate your emotions with something and did you you you know you you get to a point where you realize that wasn't going to work anymore yeah yeah so to me that's that's an alcoholic or an addict and you can do it with sex with food with gambling with shopping right any of those things where you're controlling the inside with shit on the outside right and that stops working now we're in trouble because now what like think how fun drinking was and then think how many times you've been in a bar reading the back label on a beer bottle like oh yeah I was brooding Amheuser bush and you're just reading over and over you told me how embarrassing for me that's the scariest moment I've had in my life was I'm drunk and I'm bored out of my mind reading the label in this bottle over and over again because it stopped working now I'm now what do I do because now I don't even have the fucking medicine right no longer working right I will this book is very very thorough you know what it is it's like Alan Carr's book but smoking the easy way oh uh -huh it's one of these things that like I I still think it's really great.

[1553] I'm not saying I won't at some point maybe do AA because that does sound interesting to me. But there's for an entry into getting me off booze, I recommend the audiobook.

[1554] I would say if you like drinking and you'd like to keep drinking, don't read it.

[1555] Yeah.

[1556] It's like one of these books that you're like, because here's what I liked about it is that it shifted the narrative.

[1557] It's not like, it's bad for your liver.

[1558] Yeah.

[1559] People don't like you when you're, drunk or you shouldn't change your insides with your outsides.

[1560] It's none of that.

[1561] It's just like alcohol made you.

[1562] It's bitch.

[1563] You're a bitch.

[1564] Yeah.

[1565] It's not mean like this, but it's like you were lied to.

[1566] It's a very addictive chemical.

[1567] You can call it alcoholism or not.

[1568] Either way, you are addicted.

[1569] You thought you had control.

[1570] It doesn't have to be like we're saying.

[1571] I woke up with the car keys in my ass sort of Robin Williams stories.

[1572] Yeah.

[1573] It can just be like my rock bottom, was I came home and I was going to sit on the couch and watch some stuff.

[1574] And I forgot we had a friend staying with us.

[1575] And I just went to the back house.

[1576] But on my way, I just picked up a, I liked sake.

[1577] I just picked up a bottle of sake and I poured myself a big glass.

[1578] I went into the back.

[1579] I didn't drink it because I looked at it like you with the beer label.

[1580] And I was like, what am I doing?

[1581] Like, what it was was I didn't remember giving myself the order, like get some wine or why I wanted wine or whatever.

[1582] So I had a minor inconvenience.

[1583] And then I was like, well, I should get hammered.

[1584] and just sort of time travel to the next morning.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] So it wasn't like, like I said, it's not like a great story.

[1587] It's a pretty boring story.

[1588] But I like the book came at it from a place of just like, you don't have to think of yourself as an alcoholic.

[1589] As an alcoholic.

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] But when I retire, I think I'll start doing all those drugs again.

[1592] Really?

[1593] Yeah, my kids are safely at college and stuff.

[1594] Drags.

[1595] Get a golf cart.

[1596] Crinking all of it.

[1597] Just do all of it.

[1598] No. My whole thing is once I know.

[1599] longer operate a car and my penis doesn't work.

[1600] I'm safe to do all those things again.

[1601] Because we can't trust me on any of those things while my penis is still working and while I can drive a car.

[1602] If I'm in the retirement community, I only travel by golf car and my penis doesn't work, fucking bring it on.

[1603] That is hilarious.

[1604] Well, Pete, I love you.

[1605] I'm really glad that we got to do this.

[1606] I know.

[1607] And I really do want to talk to you post baby.

[1608] Like maybe, maybe like a year after you've had your little baby girl.

[1609] Well, thank you.

[1610] Thanks for having me. And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1611] Fact check.

[1612] Working at the fact check.

[1613] That was nice.

[1614] Yeah, it was nice and short.

[1615] It was nice and succinct.

[1616] Although you did say you were going to start making songs up about me. I know.

[1617] And I haven't any time yet.

[1618] But I'm going to.

[1619] Okay.

[1620] Anyway, hi.

[1621] How are you doing?

[1622] Good.

[1623] How are you?

[1624] You're real hungry.

[1625] Minature mouse has got a ferocious appetite.

[1626] I'm very hungry.

[1627] What are you going to eat when you leave here?

[1628] I really want Italian food.

[1629] Oh, you do?

[1630] Maybe some lasagna.

[1631] Maybe some lasagna.

[1632] I love lasagna.

[1633] Yeah, I don't know, but I am starving.

[1634] You want something substantial.

[1635] You want some carbohydrates.

[1636] You want some cheese and you want some noodles.

[1637] Yeah, but you know what?

[1638] I always want that.

[1639] Yeah, we all do, I think.

[1640] I think so.

[1641] You train yourself to not want that.

[1642] I know.

[1643] Well, I'll tell you how it happens because you and I both will watch mom eat.

[1644] Mm -hmm.

[1645] And she eats perfect, right?

[1646] I mean, she's just eating.

[1647] I'm sorry to bake potato, okay?

[1648] Let's not put it out there.

[1649] That's good.

[1650] A baked potato, yeah.

[1651] More potassium than a banana.

[1652] Okay, and tons of carbs.

[1653] Oh, yeah.

[1654] Well, carbs aren't necessarily bad, are they if they're not empty carbs.

[1655] It's not perfect eating to eat a big potato with sour cream and cheese on it.

[1656] I'm just, I don't want.

[1657] I would eat one with a hot dog crammed in it, like use the potato as a bun.

[1658] Oh, wow.

[1659] All right, let me rephrase it.

[1660] Okay.

[1661] Our mom eats a ton of vegetables.

[1662] She does.

[1663] Like, you sit down with her and she's got like four courses in all four are vegetables.

[1664] And I always look at it and I'm like, how can she do it?

[1665] But I have at times gone on diets and then by day three of eating like her, it all tastes good.

[1666] It's just like you got to like decompress from how good that other shit is and reset your.

[1667] your bar.

[1668] Yeah, I think that's true.

[1669] Like, if you kind of just train your brain that it doesn't need to taste good.

[1670] Like, not everything needs to taste amazing.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] Then you, then things start tasting good.

[1673] Then broccoli, which I love broccoli, but broccoli starts tasting good when we're not deciding between that and lasagna.

[1674] Well, even I was vegan for a year, right?

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] And during that time, I was at work and they had a baked potato bar.

[1677] Mm -hmm.

[1678] And so I couldn't put sour flour cream on it, butter, cheese, any of that, right?

[1679] But I hadn't had that stuff in six months or something.

[1680] And I just took a bite of the goddamn potato.

[1681] And it was fucking delicious.

[1682] And I was like, oh, my God, it's been my whole life since a potato tasted good without a bunch of shit on it.

[1683] Right.

[1684] But it was damn good.

[1685] Just getting into that spud.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] You know, hot, yummy potato on its own.

[1688] It was good.

[1689] But if I ate it today, I'd be like, barf.

[1690] Because I had a friend who was asking, who was trying.

[1691] to get on a diet who was trying to get their body healthy.

[1692] Uh -huh.

[1693] And she was asking me what I ate for lunch.

[1694] Mm -hmm.

[1695] And I was like, well, if I'm doing well, I eat a salad for lunch.

[1696] Right.

[1697] And she's like, but that doesn't taste good.

[1698] And I don't know what to tell you.

[1699] It's not everything needs to taste good.

[1700] Like your lunch doesn't have to taste good.

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] Well, when I've been on like crazy diets for movies, at that point I just tell myself, No, you're just eating because you need to eat to stay alive.

[1703] This isn't a highlight of your day.

[1704] You're going to have to make something else a highlight of your day.

[1705] This isn't a source of pleasure.

[1706] It's a source of sustenance.

[1707] Yeah.

[1708] But sometimes when I'm eating really well, I feel a little bit, this is going to sound horrible.

[1709] Okay, good.

[1710] That's what we're always looking for.

[1711] Sometimes when I'm eating really healthily, I can tell I'm in my brain not very healthy.

[1712] Like I'm using that I get really strict about it You're right, it's a controlling thing It's very controlling So sometimes when I'm eating healthy I'm like oh actually I'm not in that good of a place Because I'm super focused on this I can only eat this avocado for breakfast But it's not like I'm trying to lose weight I'm just trying to regulate Emotions probably Yeah, but so who's to I don't know I don't know either.

[1713] I don't know.

[1714] Sometimes, like when I'm in the convincing mood, like I want to eat a whole fucking cheese pizza.

[1715] Yeah.

[1716] I tell myself, why even be alive?

[1717] Why do I want to live so long just so I can not enjoy it, right?

[1718] Yeah.

[1719] And then that makes a lot of sense to me in that moment.

[1720] And then, you know, other times I'm like, no, you feel like shit when you eat like that.

[1721] I do want pizza right now.

[1722] Okay, I'll buy you one.

[1723] Let me call them right now.

[1724] Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

[1725] Thank you for coal wine let us if there's bites.

[1726] Uh, anyway.

[1727] You see, the bottom line is the verdict's out.

[1728] We don't know what you're going to eat when you leave here.

[1729] We don't.

[1730] Hopefully you'll update everyone on Thursday.

[1731] Okay, I will.

[1732] Okay.

[1733] So, Pete.

[1734] Peter Holmes.

[1735] So, this old house.

[1736] Bob Villa?

[1737] Yeah, so that's, so it's Bob Villa.

[1738] Well, is it?

[1739] Yeah, it is.

[1740] I looked it up.

[1741] And it's spelled with one L. Oh, then I accept it.

[1742] I thought it was V -I -L -L -A.

[1743] I know.

[1744] And like just because Robert decides that we don't pronounce LL with a Y, if it's a Spanish word, doesn't mean it is.

[1745] See, I have a problem with this.

[1746] Yes, people know how to say their name.

[1747] Like, I had this friend, I don't know if I should say your name, but I had this friend in middle school.

[1748] And her last name was Knutzen.

[1749] Okay.

[1750] And my mom was like.

[1751] Oh, like the dairy product with the K -N -U -D, like the cottage cheese, Knudson cottage cheese, Oh, I don't know about that.

[1752] Oh, okay.

[1753] But it was Knutson and her, and my mom was like, no, it's, it's, that, that Kay is silent.

[1754] Right.

[1755] And I was like, no, she knows her name.

[1756] How arrogant of you to think you know, I didn't say that, but I probably said something worse, but how arrogant of you to think you know somebody else's name better than them, like Rihanna, Rihanna.

[1757] Is that a big one?

[1758] Yes.

[1759] She pronounces it.

[1760] Rihanna, and that is...

[1761] Oh, the sex giraffe?

[1762] Yes.

[1763] She pronounces her name Rihanna?

[1764] Yes, because it's Rianna.

[1765] I'll call her any goddamn name she wants me to.

[1766] Let me climb up that giraffe, highness.

[1767] Heinis?

[1768] Why don't you?

[1769] Hine?

[1770] What are you even trying to say?

[1771] I think hindquarters.

[1772] Haunches.

[1773] I was mixed between haunches and hindquarters.

[1774] Well, you need to ask her first if you have permission to do that, but yeah.

[1775] Well, I would never mount someone's hindquarters without, you know, some...

[1776] Consent.

[1777] Consent, be that physical or verbal or whatever.

[1778] Right.

[1779] You know, we do talk on here, like people ask who our hall passes when Christians are well documented.

[1780] And I never really have an answer.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] So she's here.

[1783] I'm putting her on the list.

[1784] All right.

[1785] The sex giraffe.

[1786] Well, don't, I don't think.

[1787] That's fine.

[1788] I don't think it is.

[1789] A giraffe is a majestic, you know, she's got a long, she's got a long torso and neck.

[1790] I know.

[1791] I just, it shouldn't be calling women naming them after animals.

[1792] It feels so complimentary.

[1793] Is it anyone that knows Rihanna?

[1794] Okay.

[1795] Ask her if she finds a complimentary to be called a sex giraffe.

[1796] What if we found out that, let's say that Zach Braff you found out referred to you as the sex chinchilla.

[1797] I hate that.

[1798] You hated what you just said.

[1799] Sex chinchilla?

[1800] Ew.

[1801] What?

[1802] Wouldn't you want him to just be saying sex anything?

[1803] No, see, that's the difference.

[1804] Oh, here's the breakdown.

[1805] teach me you're seeing her as simply a sexual object a sexual animal actually not a sex giraffe not a person she's a person not a sexual animal super talented person can we not um we can't just want to fuck people by the way it doesn't feel comfortable always to have to think all these men are seeing you purely as a sexual being.

[1806] Well, we're just talking about my hall pass right now.

[1807] So it's really implicitly about sex.

[1808] You said wouldn't you want sex in front of any name?

[1809] No. Well, not sex rat.

[1810] Is there an animal, though, that you would like to be called sex blank?

[1811] No, I just mean, it's not all that comfortable for a woman to feel like every single man on earth wants to have sex with her because that's dangerous.

[1812] There's some danger there.

[1813] So now we're going to get into a real a genuine conversation now would you do you not want people that you like to think of you as sexy and sexual people that i like not every person on the street no i don't i don't want to be walking down the street and a guy sitting on the curb to think that or to see my body and think that so i'm complimenting myself i guess i'm maybe i'm arrogant at this moment but i i give myself enough credit that Rihanna would like knowing that I'm sexually attracted to her.

[1814] Okay.

[1815] Do you think she would or wouldn't it?

[1816] I don't know.

[1817] I don't know what her opinion is of you.

[1818] Well, of course we don't know.

[1819] I'm just wondering if you would harken a guess.

[1820] Well, I don't know how she would feel about you just calling her that.

[1821] I don't know.

[1822] She might love it.

[1823] She might.

[1824] I don't.

[1825] She might hate it.

[1826] Rihanna, if you don't like it, I'll never say it again.

[1827] And if you like it, I will say it a lot.

[1828] Keep saying it.

[1829] Yeah, yeah.

[1830] Also, why would he call me a chinchillie?

[1831] It was the first funny animal name I could think of, which is I do stand by the fact that chinchilla is a funny name.

[1832] They also don't have...

[1833] But why would anyone want to be a funny name something?

[1834] I was trying to make you laugh.

[1835] So I was trying to pick a funny animal that I could put sex in front of that would make you giggle.

[1836] Oh, I thought you were trying to make a point, a real point.

[1837] I will always prioritize trying to make you laugh, I think, over a point, but maybe not.

[1838] Okay.

[1839] Well, anyway.

[1840] Oh, but anyways.

[1841] If anyone called me a chinchilla, I would feel upset.

[1842] You'd be bombed.

[1843] Putting that out there.

[1844] Is there an animal?

[1845] Well, again, now it's Matt Damon.

[1846] It's someone you really want to think you're a sex machine.

[1847] A smoke show.

[1848] Okay.

[1849] They can use those words.

[1850] Well, okay.

[1851] But is there an animal that you would be your preference that they said a sex something?

[1852] I guess what I'm wondering is if, like, I can definitely, well, it's obvious.

[1853] The guys tattooed on their body is like there's some pretty generic.

[1854] generic popular animals guys want to be associated with a wolf sure you know yeah a lion a bald eagle right and i'm just curious if women have any animals that they're dying to be i think there's like for a lot like there's like you know panthers or like sexual oh sex panther sex panther's probably something that gets said yeah and well and um was that the name of the clone and um anchorman oh i don't Sex Panther?

[1855] Or was it made of Panther parts?

[1856] I don't know.

[1857] I don't think it was Sex Panther.

[1858] Well, what if would have Ben Affleck always referred to you as the Sex Panther?

[1859] I'm into it.

[1860] I hope you are.

[1861] Well, why do you hope I am?

[1862] Like, why is that like a positive thing and it's a negative thing if I'm not?

[1863] It's not, well, it's not negative.

[1864] It would just, I like it when you're excited.

[1865] So I'm wondering if you found.

[1866] out Ben Affleck referred to you as a sex panther if you would feel a little spring in your step.

[1867] Okay.

[1868] Well, I guess I, like, he hasn't had sex with me. No, nor have I with Rie.

[1869] Anna.

[1870] Yeah, so you don't know.

[1871] No, no, no. It's all fantasy.

[1872] Right.

[1873] So what you're really saying is you're not saying she's good at sex.

[1874] You're saying, I want to have sex with that person.

[1875] There's some people I think love sex and don't love sex.

[1876] And I couldn't prove it in a court of law.

[1877] It's just we have vibes about who we think's good in bed and who's not good in bed.

[1878] Or so they wouldn't even have a fantasy about or why would I even, why have a sexual fantasy about someone if you're not going to at least assume they're great in bed?

[1879] Like, don't you think Matt and Ben are good in bed?

[1880] That has actually very little to do with the fantasy for me. But when you imagine, I think the fantasy is so much more about the person what they're giving you, not sexual.

[1881] But you do imagine the sex will be great, right?

[1882] Yes, yes, of course.

[1883] That's what I'm saying.

[1884] You wouldn't, like, fantasize about someone where at the end of the fantasy, the sex is terrible.

[1885] You would change people.

[1886] I agree.

[1887] Okay, thank you.

[1888] But you are saying what I'm saying, that when you call her a sex giraffe, you are saying, I want to have sex with that person.

[1889] What if you said, you're saying you want to have sex with a giraffe?

[1890] Well, I think if we really broke it down and drilled into it, I think if I called her like a sex kitty or a sex mouse or something, to me, that would imply almost a level of misogyny.

[1891] Like, I want a little tiny creature I'm going to control.

[1892] Whereas I'm actually saying I'm intimidated to have sex with Rihanna.

[1893] God grant me some strength to please this thing, okay?

[1894] Getting worse?

[1895] Yeah, I don't know about that.

[1896] I don't know.

[1897] I don't know.

[1898] I don't know.

[1899] But I'm just saying for women, when a whole bunch of men are labeling them as sexual, that's.

[1900] Feels dangerous.

[1901] Yeah.

[1902] I mean, people can be sexual and women can own their sexuality and all of that's great.

[1903] But to nickname a person sex something, it just, it just reduces them down to one thing.

[1904] And that one thing can be about men.

[1905] power.

[1906] So it's hard.

[1907] Now, do we think it's relevant to, like, evaluate my full pattern of behavior?

[1908] Like, we talk about actors all the time on here.

[1909] And I'm never just talking about them as a sex object.

[1910] But for my get out of jail free hall pass.

[1911] Yeah, that doesn't mean she's a sex object.

[1912] That's the, like, you, the language is not good.

[1913] I'm not doing it well.

[1914] Okay.

[1915] Don't, I don't think you can ever refer to anyone as a sex object.

[1916] They're a person.

[1917] They're not an object.

[1918] They're not something for you to please myself with.

[1919] And then leave on the floor like a chair or something.

[1920] Well, I'm married.

[1921] I'm going to have to leave eventually.

[1922] Can you just?

[1923] Yeah, I acknowledge what you're saying.

[1924] Okay.

[1925] Can you just call them people?

[1926] Yeah, yeah.

[1927] Again, I'm trapped in that.

[1928] I would love it if Rihanna or anyone looked at me as a sex object.

[1929] I would be like, oh, they just want to fuck me?

[1930] That's so flat.

[1931] I know.

[1932] I know.

[1933] Yeah.

[1934] So it's hard to imagine that that wouldn't be flattering.

[1935] It is.

[1936] I believe you.

[1937] I'm not saying, I, this gets so tricky because I'm not saying it's not flattering, but it's different when a woman says it.

[1938] Yes.

[1939] It's much safer.

[1940] It's safer.

[1941] It is safer.

[1942] Yeah.

[1943] Unless I meet her at some point and I say to her like, hey, you know, I don't know why, but I like to think of you as a sex giraffe.

[1944] How do you feel about that?

[1945] And she's like, I love that.

[1946] Then I'll report back.

[1947] Yeah.

[1948] You know, it's interesting because, if like Ben or Matt or someone who I've been really sexually attractive came up to me and said, I think of you as a sex kitten or a sex chinchilla.

[1949] Ugh.

[1950] I can't believe you said that.

[1951] Anyway.

[1952] Do you think I actually thought in my head what animal you resemble?

[1953] I kind of.

[1954] That I could look at me in the eyes.

[1955] That didn't happen.

[1956] I was searching.

[1957] I don't think you even.

[1958] know what a chinchilla looks like yes i do you do we almost got one in college oh then i believe you most people don't know what a chinchilla looks like they're very bizarre we no one has one i went through my rolydex name of animals and i thought of the funniest the funniest one that jumped out first was chinchilla because it sounds funny sex chinchilla yeah anyway um but but they said so you ran in a mat Everyone was someone you were sexually shocked to.

[1959] Yeah.

[1960] And they said, I think of you as a sex panther.

[1961] My reaction would be, I like that.

[1962] I think I would say that.

[1963] But I don't know if that's just because I'm like conditioned to want that.

[1964] Want to have sex with me. But then if we had sex and then they left, I wouldn't be happy.

[1965] Yeah.

[1966] I think the answer to it is is what do you want to be seen as?

[1967] Like I don't think the thing you'd want most to hear from Ben, or Matt is that they love your brain.

[1968] Even though that's your favorite part of yourself, I think you and I share that in common where I'm like, yeah, I get it.

[1969] I have a good personality.

[1970] I want you to think I'm hot.

[1971] I want you to think I'm physically attracted.

[1972] You want the thing that you are insecure about it.

[1973] You want security.

[1974] Yeah.

[1975] And I guess I think we share that in common.

[1976] Yeah.

[1977] Many people think you're a sex panther.

[1978] Okay.

[1979] The conversation about some guys, like using basically their outward feminism.

[1980] Yeah, yeah, be attractive.

[1981] Yeah, I just think that is short selling those people so much.

[1982] What you and I don't agree on and what Kristen and I don't agree on is that you believe there are men that aren't trying to attract as many women as humanly possible.

[1983] Yeah, I don't.

[1984] And I don't believe that.

[1985] I know.

[1986] Yeah, we just have different opinions on that.

[1987] And I respect yours.

[1988] But I think every single guy wants as many people to like them as possible.

[1989] And then they're evaluating what strengths they have and they're leaning into those and they're trying to downplay whatever things they think are not attractive about them.

[1990] I think all animals on this planet are trying to attract mates.

[1991] I don't think humans get out of it.

[1992] No, but that's not men.

[1993] Every person is trying to make themselves the most.

[1994] most attractive version of who they are.

[1995] That's right.

[1996] Yeah.

[1997] I just don't.

[1998] I know you think every guy is like that and I don't.

[1999] I know, I know guys that aren't that are not looking around at every single girl and thinking I want to fuck them.

[2000] They're not.

[2001] Some are.

[2002] Is it possible though?

[2003] I mean, just consider this possibility that as a. woman you're not let in on that that we don't let you in on that that that we know not to let women on that because i have a million times been absolutely shocked by this person who i thought was asexual or was a nerd or wasn't all these things and i'm watching them and they're watching the girl with the big boobs walk across the room and then i look at him and then he smiles and i go oh no he's an animal who's male it's what we are He doesn't talk about it.

[2004] He doesn't do this or that.

[2005] But I mean, I just can't tell you how being on the side where it's safe to acknowledge, you think someone's boobs are nice.

[2006] There is no pattern.

[2007] There's no personality type.

[2008] Guys are, they're animals that want to procreate.

[2009] I don't think there's some that don't.

[2010] I think they're a bunch of different personality types.

[2011] But I think all the guys, you put all 10 of them in a row, every single type, you walk a naked lady by with big, voluminous breasts, they all have the same reaction.

[2012] Maybe.

[2013] Maybe.

[2014] Yeah, we don't.

[2015] But I think that there's definitely degrees.

[2016] And I think, sure, I think you're right.

[2017] think every guy probably who saw your sex giraffe walk by naked they probably would like it yes every heterosexual guy yeah yeah and then all kinds of things then come after that like some guy is nervous he he would never want to have sex with her because he'd be too terrified he couldn't uh please her or and then another guy's issue would be x y or z like there's any number of outcomes of how the behavior then would manifest itself but i do think the original thing would be the same and then just all the different things that make up someone's personality kick in all these layers and then the outcome could be dramatically different one of the guys gonna say hi to her another guy's gonna she looks at him he's gonna turn around embarrassed really quick but but but that woman shouldn't interpret that the guy who turned around embarrassed versus the guy who said hello to them had a different different physiological response to what they saw Okay, yeah.

[2018] You know.

[2019] But I don't think that person who decides to not approach her is doing that as a tactic to get more women.

[2020] Like, that's what I'm saying.

[2021] It's not all, not every motivation, not everything is about that.

[2022] I agree with you.

[2023] I agree with you 100%.

[2024] And I also think some guys do use it as what's attractive to women about that.

[2025] themselves is that they are a super outspoken advocate for women.

[2026] I do think that that also exists.

[2027] It is attractive.

[2028] Yeah.

[2029] I'd be attracted that if I was a woman.

[2030] Yeah.

[2031] Anyway, um, oh, you said, you said having a bachelor party is an alpha move in that claiming a whole weekend with the bros is alpha.

[2032] And then you said if you told your wife you were having a bachelor party and she She would have laughed herself silly, much less a weekend.

[2033] And you go on weekends with your friends sometimes.

[2034] So I have to fact check that.

[2035] So ride motorcycles.

[2036] Yeah.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] That could have been a bachelor party.

[2039] Oh, no, no. I am not in any way saying that my wife wouldn't encourage me to go do the things I like and grant me time.

[2040] She does that for sure.

[2041] She would never grant me a weekend to go to Vegas and go to strip clubs.

[2042] Yeah, it wouldn't, that she wouldn't fly in my house is all I'm saying.

[2043] I totally disagree.

[2044] Ask her.

[2045] I will.

[2046] When we first met, let me tell you something.

[2047] She said, I don't ever want you to go to a strip club.

[2048] I think everyone in a strip club that's working there is a victim of trauma.

[2049] Yet I didn't until I did in Thailand because I was brought by the girlfriends and wives of the cast to a strip club.

[2050] And the whole time I'm like, I'm fucked.

[2051] I'm going to have to tell her I'm at this strip club.

[2052] But they just said, let us take you out in Bangkok.

[2053] And I ended up at a she -mail bar and then just a normal strip club.

[2054] And then I used to tell this story in stand -up.

[2055] They tried to call me on stage.

[2056] And luckily, I didn't go.

[2057] I was feeling very codependent.

[2058] The old lady who was running was like, oh, come on you.

[2059] Come on.

[2060] I'm standing.

[2061] And she's doing crying signs.

[2062] Like, oh, come on.

[2063] They're sad.

[2064] Luckily, one of the women stopped, saved me from having to go on stage.

[2065] When the guy who went up on stage, they did bring a guy up.

[2066] They set him in a chair.

[2067] He was over there looking at his buddies, turned his head to the right.

[2068] when he turned back a stripper had come on stage and she ran and she threw her leg up over his head onto a pole and smack right in his mouth wow her vagina was in his mouth with in under a second he was looking at his friends like hey i'm on stage turned on bam right in the mouth and i was like holy fuck my whole life flash before my eyes i was like i was almost the guy in that chair and there were all these australians that liked parenthood that they were yelling crazy crazy and i'm and they had cameras there would have been a photo with me with a vagina in my mouth in Thailand, I panicked.

[2069] It was like, it was like seeing someone get hit by a bus where I was walking.

[2070] I was like, holy fuck.

[2071] This all almost ended.

[2072] So I got home and I told her that whole story.

[2073] But it required that much of a story for it to have been okay for me to be in a strip club in Thailand.

[2074] You're talking about a very standard.

[2075] You're talking about a bachelor party where there's strippers and your invaders.

[2076] Yeah, that's all I was referring to.

[2077] Like, yeah, I'm thinking of the old fashion traditional wild weekend naked girls lap dance you know and that that's part you know that's definitely a big majority of them are that yeah yeah that's true and just that that i could have never had that yeah that i don't want that by the way yeah you know how i feel about strippers yeah i don't like being a customer yeah yeah so it wouldn't have been for me anyways right the sean hay's play about God is called an act of God.

[2078] An act of God.

[2079] He performed that shit out of that.

[2080] I bet he did.

[2081] I've never seen someone say more words in a two -hour span in my whole life.

[2082] Wow.

[2083] I was in a flop sweat just watching it.

[2084] He's so talented.

[2085] He is.

[2086] Oh, you talk about how sometimes you'll be with your kids and people will come up and you're enjoying your time and they'll say like, wait until they're teenagers and you don't like that, which I understand not liking that, of course.

[2087] But I think what they're trying to do is tell you that they have kids and connect with you on that.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] So it's it's not meant to make you feel like.

[2090] No, it's all my issue.

[2091] I would also argue they're imploring me to really enjoy this.

[2092] They are, I think.

[2093] People just want to connect.

[2094] They just don't know how.

[2095] Yeah.

[2096] You know, I just, I'm like, who are you to tell me my kids are going to be terrible when they're teaching?

[2097] It's all me. Yeah.

[2098] Yeah.

[2099] I feel judged.

[2100] Right.

[2101] Malcolm Gladwell's book and the movie happy about money.

[2102] That money statistic came up again.

[2103] How much money?

[2104] Oh, makes you actually happier.

[2105] And according to a new analysis by wealth experts, this was in 2017.

[2106] Experts say that happiness does increase with wealth, but the correlation peaks at earning 75 ,000 per year.

[2107] 75 grand.

[2108] That was the last stat in 2017.

[2109] Yeah, that's great.

[2110] Crazy, isn't it?

[2111] Yeah.

[2112] Yeah, it just doesn't.

[2113] Again, again, I think location is a factor.

[2114] Big time.

[2115] Big time.

[2116] Seventy -five grand in New York City in Manhattan.

[2117] Good luck, motherfucker.

[2118] You're going to be panhandling.

[2119] Yeah.

[2120] Yeah.

[2121] But I always think that when we're in New York.

[2122] I'm like, oh, this is an awesome city, but I'd want to be a billion.

[2123] You'd have to have a billion dollars.

[2124] You don't want to get driven everywhere in a fucking town car.

[2125] But I told you this.

[2126] When we were there, we were there, because Kristen was shooting a movie and I was with the girls a lot and we technically had that we had because we were there for the production so we had a nice apartment it wasn't huge but there was there was space much more than what most people have in New York City yes and we had access it was the equivalent of probably like a three million dollar apartment or four million dollar apartment probably yeah and it was still so hard it was still so hard to live it was still so hard to live live there.

[2127] Because I always thought that.

[2128] I was like, oh, I guess you'd have to have like a billion dollars or 20 million dollars to be able to do this.

[2129] But really, it's just hard.

[2130] It's hard to raise kids in that city, regardless of how much money you have.

[2131] Yeah.

[2132] Yeah.

[2133] But I will reiterate the thing they always say about New York, which I do agree with, is it's a weirdly democratizing city because once you leave that really nice apartment, you are on the exact same sidewalk as everyone else.

[2134] And you're dealing with the same plight of that many people and everything.

[2135] That's what I mean.

[2136] That's what I mean.

[2137] You can't escape that.

[2138] Yeah, there's no special sidewalk and special line at the Starbucks.

[2139] It is.

[2140] I just wouldn't want to have kids there.

[2141] Yeah.

[2142] Yeah, you can do it on your own.

[2143] But boy, you got a two -year -old about to dart out in front of a cab.

[2144] Speaking of New York, you were just there.

[2145] Yeah, yeah.

[2146] And I tried to surprise you, and it didn't work out.

[2147] There was a cheeseburger in New York.

[2148] and Emily's in Brooklyn in Brooklyn oh that we had when we were there for a live show and it was the best burger we've ever ever by a factor of three or four god it was so good and can I just say what happened is we we looked at the price and the price was $27 for the hamburger yeah I said to you this is fucking obnoxious yeah $27 for a hamburger get the fuck out of here the burgers arrived after my very first bite, I looked at you and I said, this burger is very underpriced.

[2149] Yeah, we would pay.

[2150] After eating it, I would pay $80.

[2151] I think I would.

[2152] Like, I really think I would.

[2153] Of course, I wouldn't eat it every day.

[2154] But yeah, I mean, anything under 100, I would probably still be a deal.

[2155] Yeah, it was so good.

[2156] I mean, I hope we don't encourage them to jack it up that high.

[2157] But, I mean, I put it against any fucking bone -in ribeye you'd ever have somewhere, dry -aged, whatever, that people would spend $90 on.

[2158] Pretzel roll, caramelize the onions.

[2159] I mean, there's just no. And it's a French onion soup basically on it.

[2160] Oh.

[2161] So I reached out to them to see if we could get one delivered to your hotel.

[2162] Yep.

[2163] And they said.

[2164] This was your version of the parents coming to the show.

[2165] This was like going to be payback.

[2166] Yeah, but I failed.

[2167] Well, no. Um, so then I, we contacted Emily directly.

[2168] Oh, really?

[2169] You spoke with Emily.

[2170] Texted.

[2171] Yes.

[2172] She's a real person.

[2173] Yes.

[2174] Oh, my goodness.

[2175] Yes.

[2176] Did you feel like you were talking to like a movie star?

[2177] Yeah, I did.

[2178] It was really exciting.

[2179] But she said under no circumstance, well, they let a burger leave their establishment, like in a hole like that.

[2180] And she said, even if Barack Obama asked, she would say no. Oh, God bless her.

[2181] integrity.

[2182] I had to, I was like, okay, I get it.

[2183] What if someone was dying?

[2184] Like, what if you text her and say, Dax is dying?

[2185] And this would save them?

[2186] And the doctors have figured out the only thing that'll save them is a $27 hamburger.

[2187] I don't know if she would.

[2188] I don't know if she would.

[2189] It, it was sad.

[2190] There's probably a bunch of people that live in Brooklyn right now that are like, shut the fuck up about that burger.

[2191] I don't want to have to wait three hours.

[2192] It's already.

[2193] It's It's already rough, yeah.

[2194] It's already that line for.

[2195] Because we got there at like 5 p .m. And we just barely.

[2196] And it was still full.

[2197] Yeah.

[2198] Oh, it's a good burger.

[2199] I want it so bad.

[2200] Well, that was going on five months ago.

[2201] And I don't think we've ever gone 36 hours without talking about it.

[2202] And I've shown the picture of the burger to maybe like 100 people.

[2203] I know.

[2204] Me too.

[2205] We should post on the Instagram account that one you sent me, yeah, which is the one I always show people okay all right oh all right thanks emily and no thanks you know thanks and thanks for nothing i wish i could have that for dinner oh god that burger's a sex giraffe yeah yes it is it's a sex burger it's a sex chinchilla all right i love you follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2206] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts.

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