#548 - Tim Burnett

[0] Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night All day So Over the last couple years I've really gotten into hunting I went on my first hunting trip with Steve Renella And I started watching a lot of hunting TV shows I've kind of always watched a lot of them But your show really stood out And this is a show You guys on the Outdoor Channel?

[1] Outdoor Channel It's called Solo Hunter and you go out there, you and I've seen the ones with Remi Warren as well, and by yourself, just bring cameras, go to these remote locations, hike in, set up the cameras, and you're using your own cameras, you're like setting up the shots while you're aiming.

[2] Like you're getting ready to shoot the animals, and you're setting everything, like you've got like craint little handheld things here and go -pros, and it's got to make it very difficult.

[3] Yeah, it's annoying.

[4] It's a pain.

[5] To not just get out there and, you know, hunting is difficult enough.

[6] Creeping up on animals, stalking, getting into position is difficult enough.

[7] But I would imagine that being your own cameraman makes it, I mean, what's the 50 % harder, 100 % harder?

[8] You know, the hunting part of it, it's the same.

[9] You're still hunting.

[10] And actually, it makes me a better hunter because I find that I'm a lot more patient and a lot more relaxed about it and more deliberate in my hunting.

[11] So it's not just like, I got a rifle.

[12] like all I got to do is get within 400 yards.

[13] It's like, no, I got a rifle and I got a camera and I got this.

[14] So I feel like I hunt better, but the actual success rate of killing and getting it on film and that kind of thing, it's a lot harder.

[15] Is it like, would you say like you're like half as successful this way?

[16] No, I mean, no, I don't think it's affected my success rate on actually harvesting an animal.

[17] But it just makes it more difficult to do.

[18] It makes it more difficult to do.

[19] and it's it's a hassle.

[20] It's not a hassle.

[21] I mean, it's what I do, but it's like, it's hard.

[22] It makes it to where it's not just a hunt anymore.

[23] It's a hunt that I'm trying to document.

[24] And then now when you look at it and you're trying to actually produce something good that people are going to want to watch instead of whatever, then you're putting more thought into producing it than you are the hunting part of it.

[25] And then it's like, well, crap, now I'm not a very good hunter because I'm a good producer.

[26] So you have this constant dilemma.

[27] You can tell I'm already tore up about it, but it's like you have this constant, back and forth between yourself is like screw it today I'm just going to hunt man I'm not going to touch a camera and then halfway through the day I'm like miserable because nothing's going on I'm like I don't even have anything to show for it well it's stupid turn on the cameras you'll have something to show for it so right do you um it's kind of it's a tricky way to to do a television show and you do all the producing yourself do you do all the film editing a lot of jazz yeah I do all the editing that's just kind of kind of my thing for it and I like I like it because I can get more emotionally invested into it.

[28] I feel like it can come out different.

[29] But I'm not the best editor out there.

[30] I'm just the one that happens to edit that show because I'm the low -budget guy.

[31] And when I started out, it was, I mean, it wasn't even, it wasn't even ready.

[32] It wasn't time yet.

[33] How long have you been doing it now?

[34] So Solo Hunter went to air in October of 2010.

[35] But I had done TV since 2004, you know, in kind of random ways in that.

[36] But we had, the guys that I was partners with, we hired a producer that was doing all the editing.

[37] and me and Jeff we'd be in the studio just all day and all night just hammering out with this with this producer and at the end of the day we weren't 100 % happy with what we were getting so when we split up and I went my own route I was like you know what the only way I'm going to do this and make money and do it right is I got to learn editing so I bought I mean I bought a computer and just totally self -taught myself how to edit and I started cranking out some just some videos online and everything and that's kind of how I got into it and got more involved into the TV of it.

[38] So you do use like Final Cut Pro or something like that?

[39] Yeah, in fact, today, I'm still using the same exact system that I bought 10 years ago, that same exact system.

[40] Really?

[41] Nothing's changed, just a few updates, that's it.

[42] Yeah, I'm using Final Cut 7, you know, old school.

[43] I don't know what the numbers up to now.

[44] Well, it's like ProX or something.

[45] A mark here uses Adobe or whatever, but to me it's like the editing software in that 10 -year -old state is way more powerful than my brain is to keep up with it anyway.

[46] So it's like, all I got to do is link video together and slap some music to it, and I got a TV show.

[47] Yeah, it's funny when you look back at computers that were, you know, five, six, seven years ago, they were incredibly powerful and much more powerful than for, you know, the applications that most people use them for.

[48] I mean, most people have way overpowered computers.

[49] They're just going online, you know, and clicking on links and stuff, and they have these ridiculous computers that can edit and crunch video and, you know, do all kinds of massive calculations, and they just never use it.

[50] Yeah.

[51] I mean, at the end of the day, do I have the best TV show on the network?

[52] No. Do I have the worst one?

[53] No. Do I have one that I really like and enjoy and love?

[54] Heck yeah.

[55] It's one of my favorites to watch.

[56] My favorite to watch is Jim Shockie's Uncharted, that new show that he does.

[57] Oh, Bores the hell out of me. Does it?

[58] You know, I love it for what it is.

[59] I don't think it was intended to be a quote -unquote hunting show.

[60] No, it's not.

[61] It's like a cultural show.

[62] Brannlin is probably one of the best producers that you'll ever find.

[63] You know, I mean, it's extremely, extremely well -produced.

[64] And I think that's good, but I also think that a lot of producers, especially young producers, coming into the industry are kind of falling into the game where they feel like a show has to be so well produced to be successful.

[65] No, it doesn't.

[66] You go out and kill something you bring it home.

[67] These are hunting shows we're talking about.

[68] You know, they're adventure shows.

[69] They don't have to be the best -produced shows.

[70] Not every shot has to be on a jib or on a slider or, you know, a rack focus or all that kind of thing.

[71] Capture the action and the entertainment.

[72] And that's where a lot of these productions miss out.

[73] But uncharted is incredible from a production standpoint and from but, like, you know, almost like a modern doc, modern documentary type of feel to it?

[74] Well, he's, if you haven't seen it, Jim Shockie, is this guy who's been around forever, this real, kind of legendary, the great white hunter from, from BC, from British Columbia.

[75] And he goes all over the world, like, I mean, literally all over the world.

[76] It's like these really remote places in Pakistan.

[77] Yeah, he's the man. To hunt goats you've never heard of, these weird fucking funky -looking goats.

[78] And the thing of it is, is like, you know, he's got the life.

[79] back it up and you look back beyond television before he started doing television the man lived that lifestyle yeah like he had it i mean he's one of the true true people that actually grew up in hunting environment in not just hunting but harsh harsh country you know doing it the right way and and building an outfitting business and it just happened to evolve into television career you know i remember watching him on real tree when he would do the little segment you know in the in the middle i think it was real tree i don't know that's a long time ago but he's really he's really you you know, deserved and earned where he's at and put himself there.

[80] Yeah, he's coming on in, uh, sometime in November.

[81] We're working it out now, but he, um, he, he does these shows that are almost like, they're documentaries on the culture that he's going to as much as it is about the hunting.

[82] The people, it delves in a lot to the people.

[83] I like, yeah.

[84] And, uh, the way they capture, you know, just like some of those villages and the way people live, you know, I mean, it's, it's incredible.

[85] It really brings a reality.

[86] It's almost like a Nat Geo type of a feel to it.

[87] Yeah.

[88] Yeah.

[89] not interested in doing that though no you know and the hard thing that I would like to see and I don't think it could ever happen but like can you imagine going to some of those places with somebody actually experiencing it and that's the thing that the cameras can't show you they can't show you the actual experience because inevitably the guy behind the camera or the producer is wanting to bring drama into it they're wanting to bring something out what's going to captivate the viewer well I'm going to do this and this and he may use a shot that the kid was doing dishes or something and use it in a scene where where something dramatic happening.

[90] The kids crying because he was cutting onions or something.

[91] I mean, producers have a way of twisting things to make it look more glorified and more glamorous than it might have actually been.

[92] Well, that's one of the things about hunting shows that hasn't really, it hasn't happened where it has with reality TV.

[93] A lot of these reality TV shows are the furthest thing from reality that you could ever imagine.

[94] Everything is completely scripted.

[95] It's calculated.

[96] Every event's calculated from the beginning to the end.

[97] These shows are just, they're just drama shows like bullshit fake fiction drama shows that they don't have a necessary they don't have a script but they have an objective exactly like you and i are going we're going to go buy mexican food you're like i fucking hate but i hate mexican food and we have a conversation whatever yeah and then you know you go we go to another place like how about this place dude i fucking hate mexican food like come on man and like at the end we wind up at a taco bell and you're like hey this isn't bad like that's a fucking reality show scenario the best reality show would be filmed from a own and the people wouldn't even actually know it was there that would be the ultimate reality show yeah yeah well they kind of try to do that with like a big brother type scenario but everything changes once people know they're being filmed yeah exactly you know and it's just they're just bad shows most of them are just really bad shows whereas like one of the things i like about your show and ranella show and a lot of these hunting shows is they're willing to show failure too which is a big part of hunting oh it's yeah it's a majority of hunting yeah i mean you're you're doing something that's very difficult to do you're going into a natural habitat that this animal lives in you're trying to defy all of its natural instincts its sense of smell it's incredible hearing all these different evolved instincts that they have to keep them alive and you're trying to creep up on them and you're filming the whole thing yeah well i think a lot what a lot of people may not look at you know and i get it sometimes is like everything's wrapped around that that moment of impact that kill you know and especially when you're filming it by yourself it's really hard to get that moment of impact and that moment of kill on there but that's like one moment you know and it's and it's like the most morbid moment of the entire the entire episode or the entire five week long journey after that animal but everybody focuses on that moment and it's like no you know there's there's 10 days of planning and preparation and hunting an actual stuff going on outside of that one little kill how did you get the idea to do this show why didn't you try to do a show Did you ever try to do a show with a cameraman that comes with you?

[98] Yeah, I did.

[99] So I partnered with a guy in late 2004, so it was really kind of 2005.

[100] And we produced a show, was one of the first shows on the Sportsman Channel, way back then.

[101] And that show is running today.

[102] You know, it's continuing on, and he's branched off, and he's got a couple of shows that he's doing.

[103] But when I left then...

[104] What shows that?

[105] It's Buck Ventures.

[106] Buck Ventures is where I started.

[107] And now he's got Major League Bow Hunter, and he's partnered with Chipper Jones and that.

[108] Somebody with a lot deeper pockets than I have, for sure.

[109] Chipper Jones was a baseball player, right?

[110] Yeah, I think that's what they'll tell me. No, yeah, you work.

[111] Pull this thing up to your face.

[112] Yeah, sorry.

[113] The same volume as me. All right.

[114] These are twicking microphones.

[115] So, you know, I moved out to Oklahoma.

[116] I mean, when I did that, when I do things, I like go balls in.

[117] It's everything.

[118] And so I sold my home, moved my wife.

[119] I had a one, my boy was one year old at the time.

[120] We moved to Oklahoma.

[121] We lived just outside of Oklahoma City and Edmond.

[122] And just partnered up and started the show.

[123] Loved it.

[124] And he, you know, everything was going good with it.

[125] It was 100 % white tail.

[126] but it really wasn't my thing.

[127] You know, I grew up in Central Idaho in the middle of nowhere, and for me to transition my hunting style and what I grew up with to focus just strictly on whitetail, it just didn't fit.

[128] What was your hunting style?

[129] I grew up, shoot, where I grew up in Central Idaho, the nearest Walmart's 70 miles away.

[130] I mean, the population 101, you know, I mean, it's a small farming town in Central Idaho.

[131] It's called the Lost River Valley.

[132] I grew up right in Moore, went to school in Mackey and Arco, and so that that lifestyle and growing up on a farm was rugged just in and of itself and so I don't know anything any different and I know you know I can go out the back door and I can be up on the mountains and just go forever I mean you could go until until forever until Canada if you wanted to but it's so you were used to like going out and hiking going after these animals stalking them yeah mountains western hunting you know where it's you've got elk you've got deer bear mountain mountain lions i mean you've got everything the whole western hunting hunting white tail is completely different one a white tail deer might live in just a few square miles its entire life you know and you're hunting farmland predominantly or river bottoms and so you're really you know that's that's the most widely hunted game animal that it's like it's almost like a farm animal the adventure the adventure starts and ends right here you know within within 200 acres or whatever right when i go on a hunt for elk the adventure there's there's miles you know right hundreds of miles that a person can go on in the west and when you get up on some of these peaks and you may have experienced on some of the stuff in Alaska but like you get up there and it's like gosh dang there's a lot here you know yeah I mean there's so much country and there's no limitation to how far you can go and what you do so that's that's when I say my style that's my style getting out remote and uh that's way more fascinating to me to be in like completely wild environments like that like you said standing on a peak looking out in Alaska and what you're seeing is just mountain ranges and just hill after hill after hill and valleys and just it looks endless it looks endless and there's no one out there and you're looking straight ahead you're not seeing any fucking people you're seeing trees and there's some animals out there go find them yeah yeah and that's that's how i grew up i mean i would go out a lot of times during school and i'd just go up sleep on the mountain come back do chores milk cows go to school you know go to football practice go home do chores go up on the mountain sleep on the mountain come back home i mean that was kind of how how my brothers and I grew up and it's just I mean I just have a yearning for the wild I mean some of the coolest experiences that I've had in life have been when I'm by myself and go and do something just so totally random that that nobody else would really even think about I say shit I shouldn't say nobody but it's like you know in college I'd drive home two hours to my folks house and I'd drive another hour up to the canyon by the time I get to the trailhead it's 11 o 'clock a night hike in for three or four hours find somewhere asleep get up on top of the mountain and I'm sitting there as the sun's coming up and three wolverines come up, you know, and circle the lake.

[133] And it's like back then, you know, in the 90s, there weren't wolverines in Idaho.

[134] There weren't supposed to be anyway.

[135] I mean, I was one of the very first or very few to actually see wild wolverines in Idaho.

[136] And it's like, had I not been there by myself experiencing that in that canyon, you know, if there's other people or other things, those wolverines might not have been as comfortable, you know.

[137] But because I was there by myself and I'm the only one there looking down over it, I had that experience and there's there's a lot of opportunities like that that when you have someone else there you're focused on the group you know you're focused on your conversations your buddies your friends and everything you're not you're not really tuned in to what's around you're not tuned in to your surroundings and so there's certain things that I think you miss out on when you've got other people there and it's not that I don't enjoy that sometimes but I feel like when I'm there like there's a connection you know there's a connection to the land there's a connection to the environment and you know you can bring all of it into if you're if you're a hippie you know tree hugger voodoo type person you can bring in the nature and the gods and all that kind of stuff into the whole element but that really and truly is what it is is you're out there with no one but yourself and god and his creation i mean that's it it's all surrounding you yeah and being like that deep in nature where you're actually a part of it because you're not you're not talking to anyone so there's no there's no conversations going on plenty of conversations They're just with myself.

[138] But you know what I'm saying?

[139] It's like you don't, there's nothing, no anchor that brings you back to civilization.

[140] You're just seeing wild shit.

[141] You're just seeing wild life.

[142] You're seeing animals that would exist that way, regardless of whether or not you're there or not.

[143] Yeah.

[144] And the sad part about it is, is the more, the older I get and the more I live in the city and the more, the more life evolves and gets busy and hectic.

[145] I mean, right now, right now, it just seems like it's a train ride, just straight up.

[146] And things are happening are happening fast, just like this opportunity here.

[147] the more, the more of those things happen, it's like, the more desensitized I come to the natural experience.

[148] And so when I'm out there, I find myself checking, where's my phone?

[149] You know, I wonder what emails I've got.

[150] I wonder who's called.

[151] And that really sucks because I'm desensitized to the nature of man, you know, to what I grew up as, you know, and that kind of thing.

[152] And that's, it's good in a way, but it's also bad.

[153] And so I like taking the opportunity just like, you know, this week I was supposed to be up hunting in Idaho, but I had too much work to do.

[154] I had projects I had to, had to get done and it worked out great because it freed up our time where you and I could get together but i know that sunday you know as soon as i get out of church i'm hauling butt up to idaho and i'm going to start elk hunting for a week so i'm going to have that you know eight to ten days of solace to really get back into it but then at the end of that trip it's going to be like i've got nine hours to drive home and think about getting back into the daily life you know to regular regular world regular world um do you do you have a regular job outside of this I don't.

[155] This is, you know, people think that I, that I hunt for a living or that it's all about the hunting and the show.

[156] The hunting is like 10 % of my life, you know, outside of that, I run my business.

[157] I've got products just like you do, and I'm trying to grow, grow the business space.

[158] And this, this year I kind of took it upon myself that this is the year I wanted to grow my business.

[159] You know, I had the TV show established.

[160] I had, you know, making a good living and everything, but this is the year that I wanted to take it another step and actually make, create a business of it.

[161] That's where I brought on Mark, and we started producing.

[162] produce another show on Sportsman Channel called Off Grid Hunter and experimenting with that.

[163] And now it's like, you know, I've got two other sponsors that have come to me and said, hey, you know, you're doing a good job with the productions.

[164] We've been thinking about X, Y, and Z. Would you be interested in producing our shows for us and doing different things?

[165] So I'm now branching and trying to grow the production side of it, as well as solidify the brand of solo.

[166] Well, you do a good, you do a really good job producing the show yourself, the way it's edited.

[167] It's interesting.

[168] It's not just, you know, here's a video.

[169] camera that I turned on when I walked up to the top of the hill like Blair witch style like you know you cut in music and sound effects and there's a lot of close -ups and Remy calls it the GoPro show he's like we're not the GoPro show anymore that's awesome yeah you definitely uh edit things uh really well and and that's a that's a big part of watching any kind of a show to draw people in but in that show in particular you're you're telling a story and your story is you know whatever animal you're chasing after wherever you're going you know you're entering into that environment and then you kind of like you're you're explaining your thoughts along the way one of them i really liked was you alone um you were moose hunting in alaska and uh you know you were you know stuck in the tent and it was raining outside yeah see and i had a guy with i mean people need to know i had a guy with me and i said that right on the episode there was another guy that had the tag but i mean you're out there you're out there in the middle of nowhere yeah and because you're out there like that because you're in this like intense, wild environment, you know, you get to, when you're, when you're talking about it and when you're, you know, expressing yourself to the camera, you're getting this kind of inside of what it's like to actually be there.

[170] For a lot of people, that's the closest they're ever going to come to being out in the wild bush of Alaska chasing after a moose.

[171] So it makes it, it's, there's like the solitude comes across on camera.

[172] And it's, it's an interesting element that you don't get in a lot of these shows, because a lot of these shows, it's an expedition.

[173] You got a couple cameramen's you got a guide you get two hunters you got all these people there you got a fucking tv everybody's going out into the woods together it's a it's a journey you know but the solitude of you being alone in these remote environments and you know quite honestly dangerous environments especially like the alaska one because there's bears out there grizzlies you're you're packing a pistol when you go to take a shit you know it's like it's it's ironic the you know the worst the most hair -raising experiences i have had have not even been in Alaska you know it's been closer to home and that kind of thing i mean yeah in alaska i got charged by a black bear i mean it was was it a female it had to have been because what happened was was we got off the boat to set up to start calling for a moose and doing some moose calling and i was like and it was raining real hard and i'm like you know what i got to go back and get my camera just in case something happens or i had to go back and get something i don't remember what it was so i walk back to the boat and as i'm walking back i hear some noise behind me and as i turn this bear's just coming i mean it's booking hauling it just as fast as it could run and all i did was just just wheeled the camera just yelled bear bear as loud as i could and the thing just skidded stopped and took off and as it turned around i mean i thought i saw another one in the back so that's the only thing that i mean the only thing it could have been was a bear hunting which isn't going to happen a bear's whatever so it had to been a sow with some cubs or something on that yeah i mean really at that the instant you're relying on luck you know you're relying on that bear to stop and turn around because all i had to at that time to protect myself was my voice you know by the time i would have got to my gun the bear would have been on me and you know bears bite and so things would have been pretty bad for for a little while had that bear not turned around and you were by yourself no i was that was that was there ted was um yeah he was right in the in the in the general area because we were both hunting moose together have you ever been out there by yourself and had a situation come up where you're like fuck i might you know i might not be able to get out of here like being injured or you know fuck your knee up or anything like that yeah i jacked up my knee pretty good in uh in new zealand when i was when i was went to new zealand and hunt with remi um i had just killed my tar and was coming down off the mountain and i mean i wasn't very far from the bottom but i stepped in this fern or something and just jacked my knee and i remember falling and I kind of blacked out there for a minute and as I'm laying there I'm thinking just I'm just like please don't don't have blown my knee out you know and I just laid there for like 30 40 minutes until kind of the throbbing and the pain kind of went away and then I was able to get up and kind of walk it off but that's that's one it gets you know that's probably one it's the most dangerous is when you're hauling you know 100 plus pounds on your back and you're coming down rough country because I'm not going to go back up there and pack my camp out so you're going to load as much weight as you can on your bag and it's stupid it's something could happen in any time you know i mean a guy could step and roll his ankle at any time you know it's just kind of by us being out there alone it makes it that much more dangerous i guess yeah stupid really people who have never um gone hiking in these like remote areas they you know like these especially when you're going after these mountain animals whether it's elk or something like that they don't they probably don't understand how treacher some of the terrain is and you add into that the fact that you've got a hundred pounds of meat packed on your back and you're probably going to have to do it several times especially if it's an elk yeah yeah I laughed at my buddy he killed a deer uh last week and he was posting these pictures on instagram of the blisters on his feet and everything he's like I'm on my third trip back in to get my deer and I'm like hell with that man just cut the thing up put it all on your bag and come out once you know how big was the deer uh you know a boned out A boned -out deer is going to be 90 pounds, you know, 90 to 100 pounds is all.

[174] But you got your camera gear, or you got your camping gear and that kind of stuff too.

[175] So that's where a deer, you know, deer's a one -tripper for a guy.

[176] Yeah, I've talked to people that, like, Renella's brother, fucked his backup essentially for life.

[177] Really?

[178] Trying to haul out moose.

[179] And now he has pack llamas.

[180] He has llamas that it brings with him.

[181] Yeah, my brother tried llamas for a while.

[182] Now I think he's got a goat.

[183] No, I think he got a horse now.

[184] He had goats, too.

[185] He was like, yeah, I can't just...

[186] Renella has these lot...

[187] His brother has these llamas and they put him in a van and like the llamas like, they fucking piss in the van.

[188] They're disgusting animals.

[189] But they're just hardy as shit.

[190] You know, he lives in Montana and he's got him out there in Montana.

[191] They just, he just timed to a tree and leave him there.

[192] And they just, it's freezing fucking cold out.

[193] They just stand there.

[194] They don't give a shit.

[195] Oh, they probably, they do.

[196] They just can't say anything about it.

[197] They probably, yeah.

[198] But they're super durable.

[199] Yeah.

[200] And the idea is you just got to make sure that you pass.

[201] them evenly you know you can't have like 70 pounds off to the right and you know and a hundred pounds off to the left it has to be totally balanced out but once it's balanced out those fuckers can just go yeah yeah we grew up hunting with horses horses and mules mostly you know so i mean it's it's nice to have that ability to pack pack camp in and pack all the way and i've thought about doing you know a pack trip solo a solo a solo hunting pack trip but that's i mean you're bringing in a whole other element you're bringing in an animal that you can't control you can't control you know there's moods or whatever i mean it's just that one more one more thing that could go wrong i mean all it takes is a horse to kick you in the side of the head and you're done or you know your horse kicks you in the knee or a horse takes a fall or any of those kinds of things and that's you know they can mess it up in a hurry so i've always i've just lately i've just got to the point where i just want to throw crap in my backpack and go yeah because i can control me you know i know where my brain is going to be and i know where i'm stepping but all that horse has to do is take take one wrong step and yeah it's odds are it's not going to happen but i've had a friend that was killed on a horse you know really what happened he was on a pack trip and i remember i was i was working at the carpet store when i was when i was a kid and uh i was like john why don't you stay here i got this job i'd like i need you to do and he was a carpet installer and i was one of the salesman i'm like i got this job that i want you that i need you to do he's like nope man i'm going on this pack trip i'm like come on it's only a two day job he's oh no and i remember him vividly saying he's like life's too short he said i'm i've i've i've promise myself no matter what, that money's not going to get in the way, and I'm going to live my life.

[202] And on that very trip, his horse, something spooked his horse, and it came over on top of him, and the saddle horn ruptured his spleen.

[203] And he went into the hospital, when he got back, he went into the hospital like 220 pounds.

[204] The next time I, you know, when he got out of the hospital, he was like 160 pounds or something.

[205] And it wasn't just a couple months later that he died from that.

[206] because he had given his kidney to his son and so his kidney and spleen and everything were jacked up and he lost his life you know from that event that can happen my brother you know a couple years ago horse came over on the top of him crush his pelvis oh je stuff happens when you've got when you've got animals you know stuff can happen you know yeah i have uh friends that ride horses they like uh my friend's wife actually she she jumps horses they go to these fucking rings and they get their horses to jump over logs and shit.

[207] Yeah.

[208] And I'm like, what are you doing?

[209] Like, why?

[210] Is that exciting?

[211] Like, what's going on there?

[212] Yeah, that's got to be, I guess.

[213] I guess, but we used to, see, we used to, my brothers and I, we had the reputation of breaking horses.

[214] So people would bring the wild Mustangs that they'd catch off the desert and stuff, which I know now living in Nevada, they're not that wild.

[215] But they'd bring us these horses that they'd adopt, thinking that they would make them as kids' horses or something, and we'd have to break these horses.

[216] How do you catch them?

[217] I don't know how they caught them.

[218] I don't know.

[219] They just bring them to us in the trailer, and we smack them around a little bit and break them.

[220] Can you break a wild horse, a real wild horse?

[221] We had all, I mean, we only had one that we really couldn't break.

[222] They were that we didn't break.

[223] So what did we do, eat it?

[224] Yeah, good guys.

[225] No, I can't even remember what happened to that.

[226] One of them, the guy took back, and it ended up getting away, and they ended up shooting it, you know, somewhere because it got on, got out on wild land.

[227] They ended up shooting that one.

[228] Why did they shoot it because it got on wild land?

[229] I don't think they could catch it.

[230] They couldn't catch it for a while.

[231] They tried to, what they tried to do is shoot it in the neck and hit that tendon.

[232] So with horses, a lot of times like Western reigning horses and stuff, a lot of times they'll go in and snip a tendon in their neck to get them to keep their head level because it's, I guess it's better for the, the horse reigns better and acts better.

[233] And it's not going to flip his head up and flail its head.

[234] So they'll flip this tenon.

[235] So the sharpshooter went in trying to shoot this horse in the tendon in the back of the neck to kind of just break him down so they could catch this horse because it was a big black and white Tabino stallion.

[236] that they wanted to catch.

[237] And I think he just kind of missed.

[238] And killed it?

[239] Yeah.

[240] What the fuck?

[241] A little bit of a...

[242] What kind of a sharp shooting does he think he is?

[243] I don't know.

[244] I should have hired me. A moving horse and you're going to shoot it in a perfect spot on the neck.

[245] I can't imagine shooting a horse anyway.

[246] That's why when I see these guys going to Africa and shooting zebras and stuff.

[247] I mean, I grew up on a farm.

[248] I have such a love and a passion for animals that I can't imagine.

[249] I can't imagine that.

[250] Well, we were talking about that before the show, that it's a weird thing for people to hear when someone says they're a hunter but they love animals yeah you know like i i got this tweet the other day with this woman uh she was someone's tweeted me something and she's tweeted why would you talk to him he kills bears for fun like you know that no i don't kill i've killed one bear wasn't for fun i eat it but did you have fun i did i enjoyed it i mean i guess i kind of killed a bear for fun and i guess part of it was sad too right like that was a part of of it.

[251] There's a remorse.

[252] Well, bears are pretty fucking cool.

[253] They're interesting.

[254] They're interesting.

[255] And, you know, I went with Cameron Haynes.

[256] We're bow hunting in Alberta.

[257] And if you've never been up there, first of all, they have to kill bears up there.

[258] There's a lot of fucking bears up there.

[259] They estimate between three and eight per square mile.

[260] And when you get up there, you realize that's true.

[261] Because when you're sitting and you're waiting, all of a sudden, within, you know, an hour or so, they just start showing up.

[262] One, two, three.

[263] I mean, we saw as many six, seven bears at a time.

[264] It's fucking crazy.

[265] And they're cannibalizing each other, left and right.

[266] They're eating cubs.

[267] You have to kill the males.

[268] They're giving themselves diseases and all kinds of stuff if they overpopulated.

[269] Yeah, and they are overpopulated up there.

[270] You have to kill the boars.

[271] If you don't kill the boars, they just feast on babies, you know.

[272] And it's just a numbers thing.

[273] They don't have anything to kill them.

[274] Nothing kills them.

[275] So if humans don't kill them, then their populations get out of control.

[276] They run into starvation issues There's all sorts of things that happen And they taste good You know, and people are fucking weird, man This whole hunting thing has really exposed me To a lot of very strange hypocrisies That people just accept And one of them is This fucking guy came up to me at the airport Wearing leather shoes And he goes, man, I was really disappointed To find out that you killed a bear I go, dude, you're wearing fucking leather shoes Do you, those are leather?

[277] I go, do you eat meat?

[278] He goes...

[279] Somebody killed a cow for that.

[280] Exactly.

[281] He goes, I do eat me, but I just think bears are different.

[282] I go, different how?

[283] Because they're not in your neighborhood?

[284] Like, what are you talking about?

[285] It's an animal.

[286] Do you understand that anything that a hunter kills lives an infinitely better life than anything you're buying at McDonald's, than anything you're wearing on your clothes, any shoes, any leather, any belt that you have?

[287] Those animals lived lives of unimaginable suffering, for the most part.

[288] Those domesticated animals that are used for, you know, whatever, it's for clothing, or.

[289] or for, you know, leather goods or couches or shit like that.

[290] Those fucking things live in pens, and their lives from birth to death are just for utility.

[291] They're just, they serve a purpose.

[292] They're a commodity.

[293] When you're hunting, you're taking an animal that lives an entirely natural life.

[294] You dip into that natural world, harvest that animal, pull it out.

[295] And in my opinion, that's infinitely better.

[296] Infinitely better in every way.

[297] First of all, the animal, they're not going to live forever.

[298] It's not like, you know, you're taking away an animal that was going to cure cancer if you kept it alive.

[299] You know, that animal was on its way to fucking building a rocket to go to the moon, and you stepped in and shot it.

[300] No, they're fucking bears, man. They're bears.

[301] They're eating each other's cubs, and it's really good meat.

[302] And it's good for you.

[303] And the fact that people have a problem with hunters, but they don't have a problem with passing by every restaurant you drive down this street.

[304] Every restaurant is filled with meat.

[305] Every one of them, every supermarket, filled with meat.

[306] all these people you drive half of them are driving cars with leather seats half of them are wearing leather shoes probably more than half but yet people have a problem with hunting and it's this weird thing because they don't see the death of the animal that cause their cheeseburger because society is structured in a way that you can just without participating in the animal's death at all you can reap the benefits of it by just giving a little piece of paper and getting a cheeseburger and that's your connection to it you can eliminate some of yourself from some of the guilt because you didn't kill it you know and you didn't see it get killed yeah so therefore it didn't happen yeah yeah and people that eat meat have said this to me and i'm like man you got to rearrange the way you think you should expose your i'm i've told several people that have a problem with it that eat meat i'm like you should expose yourself to the death of an animal just to decide whether or not you want to continue eating meat because that was a concern when i went hunting for the first time like i've been fishing my whole life so i've killed things before and eaten them but i've never killed an animal.

[307] And I was like, man, a deer is a big, beautiful animal.

[308] Maybe that's going to freak me out.

[309] Maybe I'm not going to like it.

[310] Maybe I'll be a vegetarian after that.

[311] I was like, I was really wondering what it was going to be like.

[312] The exact opposite happened.

[313] Didn't bother me at all.

[314] I mean, I thought it was great.

[315] I mean, it was, there was a moment of sadness that this animal died, but the food was delicious, the meat was delicious.

[316] The, the experience was exhilarating.

[317] It was exciting.

[318] It was fun.

[319] It was wild.

[320] It was enriching.

[321] And it's the the healthiest meat you can get, and I think the most ethical way to acquire it.

[322] You're responsible for what you're eating, and there's something super satisfying about that.

[323] Whenever I, not all the time, but a lot of times when I tweet photos of like wild game that I cook, and when I'm like out there and I'm grilling something that I killed and I chopped up and I'm putting it on the grill and then I'm eating it, like it's just such a different experience.

[324] It's like the feeling of it is so much better than just getting a steak from the grocery store, throwing it on the grill and eating it.

[325] There's nothing there with that.

[326] Yeah, and pound for pound, it's a hell of a lot more expensive, but that's not, you know, that's not what it's, that's not what it's about.

[327] And it's one of those things where it's like super, super hard to explain to people when they're like, why do you hunt?

[328] And even my wife, you know, she's not into hunting.

[329] She never wants to be.

[330] She doesn't understand how I can love animals so much and yet go out and kill them and all that.

[331] but it's one of those things that there's so many different facets that you can go down while we're doing it for food we're doing it for this we're doing it for population in a role we're doing it for you know whatever for sport which i don't i don't look at hunting as a sport you know per se but there's a lot of different things elements that you can bring into it to explain to somebody and and at the end of the day i look at it i'm like i don't know why i do i'm just i'm a man you know like i posted a picture the other day on on instagram that's like a lot of these hunting groups classify themselves as as predators or as you know addicts or junkies or you know i'm an antler junkie or i'm a this or i'm of that and it's like i'm a man you know god put man on this earth to till and to take care of it and he gave us sustenance and he gave us an ability to sustain not only ourselves but to grow population you know that's what that's what adam and eve were there if you're a religious person or whatever but if you really believe adam and eve if you really believe in two people that everybody came from which is pretty fucking ridiculous so I just happen to be a believer in Adam and Eve, but anyway.

[332] Do you?

[333] Yeah.

[334] Do you believe that there was two people and that everybody came from those two people?

[335] In a way, yeah.

[336] Really?

[337] I think there's, I think that I definitely think that there's a lot to specific religions that are out there, that there's pieces there that, you know, if you follow the Bible, word for word for what it says, like literally, there's a lot of stuff that's, there's no way.

[338] I mean, it's like, no, those are probably made up stores where, but there's other things that I, you know, I'm a religious person and I believe in God.

[339] and I think there's a lot of things that people have twisted no doubt no doubt but but I'm a believer there's something to all religions that I think there's like there's some universal truths and there's universal truth about treating people certain ways and there's universal truths about seeking the good in life and you know and looking out for your brothers and sisters and I think all of that came from understanding that people developed over time wisdom that people developed over time and then this this connecting to what is universally good about the world right without life with few exceptions people generally and there's there are exceptions that people generally want to do good people generally want to be happy you know they generally understand consequence they understand right and wrong there are exceptions you know people just don't understand and don't and then there's people that have calloused themselves one way or the other either they They tow the line 100 % religious and everything is literal, or they go the other direction.

[340] Yeah, the problem with the literal translations is that it wasn't English.

[341] You know, I mean, we're still, they're still working on the Dead Sea Scrolls, which is the oldest version of the Bible, which is in Aramaic, and it's on animal skins.

[342] And they have to, they literally have to do DNA analysis on the animal skins to make sure that when they line up the pieces, they're trying to piece them all together, that it's the right animal.

[343] like the way they do the the the dead sea scrolls have you ever paid attention to it no no i mean i'm one of those who it's like i don't know it's like yeah i don't know some of those things are so hard to even get into right but if you want to be a religious person that's the source of it that's the source of almost all biblical stories is the dead sea scrolls and um what's what's really unique about it is that it was found in kumran i think in the 1940s they found these these clay pots and inside these clay pots were essentially these animal skins that have been wrapped up in these cylinders and these like wrapped up in rolls and they had to unravel them and a lot of them were broken up and so the broken up ones the way they you know do the DNA test they do a DNA test so they say okay well all animal all the pieces from this animal will put over here all the pieces from that animal we're assuming that's a different piece of skin we'll put that over here and then they have to like try to piece it together like this ancient puzzle.

[344] Then they have to take Aramaic and translate it into English.

[345] And that's even older than the ancient Hebrew version of the Bible.

[346] The ancient Hebrew, the weirdest thing about the ancient Hebrew version is that apparently ancient Hebrew didn't have numbers.

[347] So letters were also numbers.

[348] So the letter A was also the number one.

[349] And like if I said Tim Burnett, there's numbers to your name that like it also, it counts in the translation, not to translation, but what the meaning of the word like the word love and the word god have the same numerical value in ancient hebrew and this is on purpose it's like things have like value and the sentences have like a numerical value to them that aren't our brains the way we think the way we talk because we have numbers separate from words i don't think we totally grasp what a lot of the meaning of a lot of the sentences were then on top of that like a lot of those words in ancient hebrew there's something like 25 % of them they still don't even know what the fuck it was there's a massive amount of of interpretation that uh they have to figure out then they take that and take it from there and translate it to greek and to latin and then from that to english so when you're reading about adam and eve who the fuck knows what the original meaning was what were they trying to say the original human beings that god created or that the universe bestowed upon the earth what what was that what do Did they really mean that it was just two people?

[350] It's so hard to tell.

[351] And when you add in all the other fuckery, the ones where you know that somebody had a grip on it.

[352] Somebody, we know about Constantine and the bishops and how they rewrote the New Testament and they left out a bunch of shit.

[353] They chose what was going to be in the Bible or not.

[354] A bunch of people chose what was going to be the Word of God.

[355] People that had no contact with God.

[356] It's not like God came down and he gave him a fucking to -do list.

[357] Like, get all this shit done.

[358] And then I'll double -check your work.

[359] and I'll be back.

[360] No, there was, they decided.

[361] So I'm not opposed to the concept of God, and I'm not an anti -religious person at all.

[362] I think religion's done a lot of good.

[363] I think religion is a good foundation for a lot of people to develop morals and ethics.

[364] And I just, whenever anybody wants to talk about, like, literal translations of stuff, I'm like, and I always want to know, like, how much did you look into it?

[365] Like, how, when you say literal translation, like, did you go to the actual source of those stories?

[366] Because you got to go to the epic of Gilgamesh, if you want to really know the Noah's Ark story.

[367] That's the original version of it, 6 ,000 years old.

[368] I mean, it's written these little lines and shit, like on clay tablets.

[369] Like, that's the oldest version of that story.

[370] Probably based on some real shit that happened, probably based on real floods.

[371] Yeah, my brother, he was telling me the other day.

[372] He watched that Noah movie.

[373] Oh, it's terrible.

[374] Yeah, he's like, man, that was the worst.

[375] That wasn't even close.

[376] But then he's like, well, there were giants in the Bible.

[377] so maybe maybe and i haven't seen the movie so i don't have a clue but he's like yeah it's so weird and everything but yeah it's the problem is people are full of shit all i know is i guarantee that if there wasn't that that noah he probably found a chicken and he and he probably ended up eating at one sometime he's like yeah that tastes good you know i'm gonna eat chicken and i'm gonna raise chickens and then there's gonna be more chickens and he's like well if a chicken tastes good then this sheep over here's got it taste good you know and so it just continued on you know well how the fuck did all the animals get to them that's the big one matter We have to walk there from all over the earth.

[378] Live in the now, Rogan.

[379] How convenient.

[380] That's one thing that's kind of cool about your podcast is the ones that I listen to and everything.

[381] It's like, what I like about you is when you bring in different hosts and different guests, a lot of them have completely opposite backgrounds of what I have and probably from what you have too.

[382] But I like that you're fascinated by a lot of different things and that you take yourself and just like you're saying there, the research, is you'll immerse yourself into really knowing and finding something out.

[383] And you find a lot of different things fascinating.

[384] And one thing that's really cool when you're talking about the hunting and when you were first, when you first did a podcast with Ronella and then you kind of were educating yourself along the way as you got into the hunting part of it, it was almost like it's, and I don't know if you've gone back and listened to any of your old podcast when you did those, but it's like, it was like a little kid, you know, just learning something new.

[385] And I'm like, that's pretty cool, you know, because here you have a, you know, a grown man asking questions that my 10 year old's asking me. Daddy, why are you doing this or this or that?

[386] I'm like, I don't know, ask Rogan.

[387] I'm like that with you, though.

[388] Yeah, Mark's like, but it's, you know, it's, it's cool to see.

[389] And that's one of the questions that I had for you is like, well, what got you into hunting?

[390] Why did you want to start hunting?

[391] Well, my wife would be best able to answer that because she's been mocking me for watching Ted Nuget's spirit of the while for the past like, I mocked you for watching 11, 12 plus years.

[392] I watch it for a lot of reasons.

[393] I was just kidding.

[394] One of it, one of it is because it is fucking unbelievably.

[395] hokey.

[396] I mean, he's just a hokey dude.

[397] He's a crazy.

[398] He's a master showman.

[399] You know, and if you ever seen Ted Nuget play guitar, you ever seen his band, he's a master showman.

[400] And he uses a lot of that showmanship on his show.

[401] And, you know, some of it is like really ridiculous.

[402] You know, some of it is like very repetitive and very over the top.

[403] But I was fascinated by his promotion of this lifestyle, this hunting lifestyle.

[404] You know, he has a, at the time, he didn't have the place in Texas.

[405] He had his place in Michigan as a high fence operation.

[406] And he would just got to go out into, I don't know, any hundreds of acres he has, set up tree stands and wait for deer and shoot him.

[407] And that's all the meat that he ate.

[408] We donated it to hunters for the homeless and hunters for the hungry or whatever it is.

[409] And, you know, and it really constantly promoted how healthy the lifestyle is, how healthy the meat is, and how this is like, this is about sustainability.

[410] This is about these animals are providing him with sustenance.

[411] and in turn he is providing um he puts up food plots he's planting trees like his whole thing is it's very balanced in a way that a lot of people who eat organic food that they buy it whole foods and they think they're being all earthy you're not you're not you're not really balanced like ted nugent living in michigan is more balanced than you i know you don't think that but that's the reality the reality for a lot of people that go to the grocery store and pick up their organic food is like man you don't know how many people were involved in the creating of that food what what what was put in the soil you know for it's organic you know there's no pesticides allegedly but it's organic because some inspectors stamped it to say that it is organic okay you don't use this pesticide but you use this chemical so but it's okay it's organic yeah the word organic is a weird word too it's it's too open -ended i don't marketed yeah i don't i don't know the the exact definition of organic groceries are But there's a difference between groceries that you buy and groceries that you grow.

[412] And I grow a lot of vegetables now.

[413] And I've been doing that over the last, say, year and a half, two years.

[414] And again, it's something super fucking satisfying about plucking a tomato, slicing it up and eating it and cooking, you know, putting in a salad, tomato that you grew.

[415] You put that seed in there.

[416] You watered it.

[417] It grew.

[418] You plucked it.

[419] It's the whole cycle.

[420] The whole cycle comes together.

[421] So I started watching that show.

[422] and from then I just said God, one of these days I want to fucking go hunting And then I started watching Ronella show I was watching all kinds of hunting shows For like a decade before I ever went hunting Yeah, people would come over my house and look at my DVR They were like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[423] You're morbid, you got this weird twisted Yeah, it's when animals attack, kickboxing, MMA hunting shows They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[424] I don't know, I don't know what's wrong with me But that's how I got into it.

[425] So until I met Ronella, I never actually went hunting.

[426] Right.

[427] The hunt you did with him, was it Alaska or something?

[428] The first one, no, the first one was a mule deer in Montana.

[429] Oh, got you.

[430] We went to the Missouri River.

[431] We did a float trip.

[432] It was really fun.

[433] I remember seeing something on the sportsman channel was touting the crap out of that.

[434] They're like, meat eater, you know, Joe Rogan goes on meat eater, does this.

[435] And I'm like, who's Joe Rogan?

[436] I know who meat eater is, but I didn't know who Joe Rogan was.

[437] I didn't know what the big deal about it was.

[438] And then I watched the episode, I'm like, guy seems pretty funny, you know, whatever.

[439] And then it wasn't until, like, Mark, when, I mean, this wasn't very long ago.

[440] I'll be, I'll admit.

[441] I haven't, and I'm like, I got to get to know more of this Joe Rogan because he's getting into hunting.

[442] You know, he's doing stuff with Renella.

[443] And all of a sudden, shoot, he's doing a podcast with Cam.

[444] And it's like, okay, I got to get to get to know this a little bit more.

[445] And because I'll be honest, I was like, Rogan, he could have been jungle or acrobat as far as I knew.

[446] You know, I had no idea.

[447] No idea.

[448] You're totally immersed in the hunting world.

[449] That's your world.

[450] That's what's funny, too.

[451] You asked me the last time I've watched a meat eater episode two years ago, a year and a half ago.

[452] I don't know.

[453] I've watched one episode of Uncharted.

[454] You know, I just don't watch the shows anymore because I don't know.

[455] I'm making them, I guess.

[456] Yeah, well, you're probably so fucking busy, too.

[457] Yeah, it's not that I'm that busy.

[458] I mean, I definitely am busy, but I have my home life too.

[459] You know, I spend a lot of time of home, but I just don't spend it watching TV anymore.

[460] I used to a lot.

[461] I used to, I mean, when I first started producing television, I would watch all the top -rated shows.

[462] I'm like, I want to know what Waddell's doing.

[463] I want to know what all these people are doing, and I'm going to do it because it's successful.

[464] It's a format.

[465] And then I started solo, and it was like all, everything went out the windows.

[466] Like, you know what, I'm going to do everything these people don't do because I'm sick of seeing the exact same thing every time.

[467] And this conversation, I had a conversation with a big sponsor the other day because they're wanting to produce a TV show.

[468] And we had a big conference call and everybody was talking about all the things they hate about television.

[469] and things that they like about television and a lot of these different shows came up and without a doubt they're all like we hate how hokey it is, we had how overproduced it is and this and that and that but at the end of the day something's got to die you know and it's like everything is the same the comments that you get from people is all the hunting shows are the same you know and so to do something different is really hard well there are a lot of them that are same there's so many shows out there right now because of the networks that are available that there's a lot of shows that are different A lot of shows that, you know, have their own brand.

[470] It's pretty different.

[471] Yeah, there shows that have their own brand.

[472] You know, a lot of people emulate and try to copy what Heartland Bowhunter started and what they've done.

[473] And so you're starting to see a lot of that imagery and that type of shooting into different productions.

[474] And, you know, I'll be admit, I fall into a lot of that, too, where it's like, man, I want to do a shot that looks like that, but I want to do it my way.

[475] Right.

[476] For ours, for solo, what I think makes it unique is the fact that no matter how we film it, it doesn't really matter.

[477] because at the end of the day, we're one man out there, we're trying to kill an animal, we're going to kill it, we're going to bring it home, you know, and we're just trying to document that adventure.

[478] I think by doing it by ourselves and having that relationship with the camera where everything seems to be so close up and like, it's like I'm talking to you.

[479] You know, you're watching, I'm trying to talk to the viewer and communicate that.

[480] And that's really hard to do because sometimes you want to just reenact and restate what's happening or what's going on or what you're going to do.

[481] But what Mark and I are working on with some of these other projects and what we're going to try to bring into solo is more of that, more of that what's going on up here.

[482] You know, what's going on in my head more so than what's going on that you're seeing.

[483] People want to know more what I'm thinking while I'm doing certain things than actually what I'm doing, I think.

[484] And so that's an element from as a producer to try to bring into it to where if people really knew what goes on in my head while I'm up on the mountain, I think they'd be shocked because it's not, you know, it's not all, it's not all just complete focus on on hiking and hunting and killing you know there's a lot of different things that go on meaning that like you start thinking about your family you start thinking about your life well yeah that and it's like you know i may i may be sitting there one time i may be thinking you know i'm going home i've been up here for four days i haven't seen a damn antlered antlered animal for the last four days i'm going home but you have this you know this all this interaction that goes on in my head it's like the guilt okay if i go home i've just wasted four days that i've got here that i should have been here to potentially get an episode you know or to potentially harvest an animal bring it home and to eat it you know i'm wasting that if i go home now i'm a quitter if i stay stick it out i'm stupid because i'm not going to find any animals or whatever so there's just just constant because when you're by yourself there's nobody to talk you into things and there's nobody to talk you out of things so when you make a decision it's yours and you got to live with it you got to do it you know so if i'm hiking up a mountain and a and a deer is bedded somewhere, and I know that if I hike around this way two miles, I can get to him without him winding me, or like I did on the last day of my hunt, I said, yeah, it's a gamble.

[485] The wind's blowing here.

[486] If I go here, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I can cut off two miles of distance, but I might have a chance to get on him.

[487] But if I go this way, it's two miles, but it's a guarantee I could get it on him without the wind.

[488] Well, the last day, I chose the shortcut, and what did I do?

[489] I blew the deer out.

[490] You know, the deer, the deer caught my scent and was gone.

[491] Is there anything that works for covering scent?

[492] Because you were using some stuff on the episode that I saw last week where you were, that nose blocker.

[493] Yeah, I tried that nose jammer stuff, whatever.

[494] That stuff's different, I guess.

[495] I'm not a, I'm not a scent guy.

[496] I'm not a cover scent guy.

[497] I'm not a. You don't believe in it?

[498] I don't.

[499] You know, stuff like that, people are trying to convince me that works.

[500] And it may work, but there was an instance on that episode, because I don't want to down talk nose jammer, you know, because they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're.

[501] advertising on the show but it's not it's a product that I told I committed to him when I met the owner I met John Redmond at a trade show in in Reno and he was so stinking passionate about it and I told him to his face I'm like John I don't believe in that stuff man it's all hokey it smells smells smells it's like no try it blah blah blah blah blah so it turns out I he gives me a can of this stuff and I try it there in Oklahoma that's the first time I'd ever tried it and there was a buck that came down wind and he obviously smelled something yeah you could tell he was like yeah he's like and that was awesome because i was like is he smelling but you know what the deer could have done that by smelling me or he was smelling the vanilla that i just rubbed all over the tree or whatever that was whatever's in the nose jammer but something confused his sensory glance and that's the point behind nose jammer i guess is to kind of kind of confuse their sensory glands so that it just pauses them just for that one minute so hopefully you can get a shot at him but it did it it held that deer up and then he then he moved on so there there's some validity to that, I guess, but would that deer have done the same thing if I rub coconut oil on my pants?

[502] You know, who knows?

[503] I don't know.

[504] Right.

[505] How could you tell?

[506] You'd have to have the exact same scenario with the exact same animal and a bunch of different options.

[507] And that's why for me personally, I've had so much experience in the field and I've had so many times when I've tried different things and times when I've just gone natural, you know, where it's just me and my body odor, where that's it.

[508] And ultimately at the end of the day, my conclusion has been, and it is to date, and that's not to say that it can't change over time and as I have more hunting experiences, but right now I don't want to interject any foreign scent into the air.

[509] You know, I want, I'm going to have a smell to me no matter what I do, no matter what I shower in, no matter what I spray my clothes down with, it doesn't matter, I'm going to smell a certain way that is not natural to that environment.

[510] So when that deer walks into his bedroom, because a deer, a deer is never anywhere by chance.

[511] He's never anywhere randomly.

[512] he's walking where he's walking for a reason you know he knows that that's a safety corridor where he can transfer where he can move himself from food to bed or whatever safely and so he's there for a reason so if he smells anything out of the ordinary or sees anything out of the ordinary he's automatically going to be on alert and you know that there's variations to everything because crop land and where you hunt some of these white tails it's farmland where I hunt there in Oklahoma it's an operating cattle ranch so the deer could have smelled people before had to have because there's oil rigs in there where there's people in and out so they know what people smell like so to me i use that into my into my little thinking is that if they know what humans smell like they want to avoid it so they're traveling these corridors because they know they can avoid humans so they're just traveling where he's traveling because he knows he's not going to have any interaction with with anything but a deer right so to me i use that as well that's the point where I want to be and I want to get to so I can kill him, you know.

[513] So if he smells anything, guys, getting back to the scent thing, if he smells anything out of the ordinary, it's your, the gig's up anyway.

[514] And deer have an insane capability.

[515] Oh, yeah.

[516] For smell, right?

[517] Yeah.

[518] I mean, you're, they say, I can, I don't know the exact numbers.

[519] I mean, I'm not a technical guy.

[520] I'm more of a live in the now, you know, feel how I feel kind of kind of person.

[521] So, you know, I've had experiences where a deer has been 1 ,500 yards downwind and he smells me. and it blows me away.

[522] It's like, that deer is 1 ,500 yards away from me, and he smells me, and he takes off.

[523] Because in the West, you can see that.

[524] You can see what goes on.

[525] So when you're sneaking around, you see that deer poke his head up, and you know, you know, when they're smelling, and they're gone.

[526] If they smell you, they're out of there.

[527] But, you know, when I was hunting this year, there's several times where I bumped these two big bucks.

[528] I bumped them three different times.

[529] The first two times, they just saw me, and they didn't smell me, and they just kind of, you know, mooseed off.

[530] They were like, something's weird over there, you know, so that bush isn't supposed to be moving like that.

[531] but then the one time that they smelled me they didn't see me they just smell me and they were gone i mean they booked it do they smell your breath like what are they smelling yeah you everything you fart in the woods don't you i mean i do well there's there's there's it depends it's breath but it's it's we have a scent you know i mean i smell myself right now sitting here but it's like we have it we have an aroma about us just like they have an aroma about them you know so you can wash your clothes and the scent -free stuff you spray whatever but you know 30 minutes into a hike, I'm sweating and smelling like a man swells, you know.

[532] You could maybe eliminate the very outskirts of their ability.

[533] Don't even try.

[534] Just play the wind.

[535] You know, well, I mean, and that's hard, too, because it's like, you know, there's millions of advertising dollars spent in promoting scent elimination products.

[536] And a lot of, some of my sponsors promote scent elimination clothing or whatever.

[537] And at the end of the day, all that stuff can help.

[538] it can eliminate like you're saying it can take your your scent aroma from here to here which is good that's your advantage what about those ozone things those ozone things that people put behind them i can't speak for that i don't know ozonics i dealt with ozone with water but i don't know yeah it was that it's a giant box that's above your tree stand does it play music can you like yeah musac yeah something it's like elevated music to calm them down put some sedate them looks like a project to me it's it's air cleaner too thing.

[539] Yeah.

[540] It's the ozone.

[541] It puts out which I'm experienced with ozone with water when I worked for a water company is the ozone is a form of sanitizing.

[542] It keeps the lines clean and it keeps everything clean.

[543] So I guess if you inject that into the air and you can smell ozone.

[544] Like after a good heavy rainstorm or something, you can smell the ozone in the air.

[545] You can smell the smell it.

[546] The ozone from the ozone layer?

[547] Yeah, just from the environment.

[548] The ions, it yeah.

[549] It disables the ions and does something.

[550] Yeah, you can get them for your house.

[551] I know people have got them around their house, and it lowers the dust levels, allergens.

[552] Really?

[553] Yeah, it just paralyzes it, brings the right to, yeah.

[554] But isn't ozone toxic?

[555] In a hive, yeah, you can get yourself pretty sick from it if you.

[556] So if you're sitting in a tree stand blowing ozone on your face.

[557] I can't speak to it.

[558] To me, I don't know, man. That's one more thing that I got to haul up the tree.

[559] I'm never going to use one.

[560] I mean, they could come to me and say, hey, we'll give you $50 ,000 to use this thing.

[561] I'll be like, I'll take your $50 grand, I can use it.

[562] Wow, how rude.

[563] I can't believe you're saying this on a podcast, ladies and gentlemen.

[564] Well, good for you.

[565] It's all straight up on us, though.

[566] No, I appreciate that.

[567] I've turned down.

[568] I had a sponsorship at one time with a send elimination company, and they wanted to grow that sponsorship.

[569] Of course, there was other pretense to it to move to another network and different things, and I ended up turning that down because it's, and I told him exactly, I'm like, this is not a product that I can get behind 100%.

[570] And if I can't believe in what it is, the people are going to see right.

[571] through that right so for me it's like that money that you're going to give me it does does does us both no good right right so i discontinued that relationship with that sponsor yeah i feel the same way about sponsors for the podcast i i've turned down a bunch i've turned down one recently it was pretty lucrative but i'm like i don't like it i don't like what they're selling i don't like the idea not doing it yeah and with the tv show some of it you know you you see some of the ads or the billboards that are running in the show and everything one a person's got to realize too from a production standpoint is, is we have sponsors, you know, quote unquote sponsors that we are backing Under Armour, you know, Prime, G5, all these that are backers and investor, you know, not in, yeah, they're pretty much investors in you and in your business and your brand.

[572] And then there's ads that you sell, you know, 30 second commercial spots, those types of things.

[573] That's ad placement that either the network's going to put in there or I'm going to sell it to somebody to put in there.

[574] Yeah, that's, maybe people don't understand how outdoor shows work.

[575] Yeah, outdoor shows work a bit different than a lot of other shows a lot of times they get like say if a guy uh puts on a show like solo hunter you have a certain amount of advertising space that's for you for your program but then the network has a certain amount of advertising space of their own for their things like i had to tell ronella about an advertiser that was competing with one of his friends companies that was on the same show i go do you know that you guys are selling this on your show he goes what we're selling that I go, yeah, your show had an ad for this, which is a rip -off of another product.

[576] It's because they didn't protect the category.

[577] Yeah, exactly.

[578] For like Under Armour and some of these other, the major sponsors, you protect categories.

[579] So when somebody buys a commercial spot on the show for say, that's protected.

[580] I'm not going to go out and find another clothing guy, you know, camera sponsor or any of that.

[581] I'm exclusive for these guys.

[582] Yeah, that makes sense.

[583] So it's for folks who don't know exactly how you're saying, it's a kind of a unique thing.

[584] You're kind of buying time on the network.

[585] Yeah, that's one thing I tell people, you know, is there's no rulebook, but there's no playbook either.

[586] So the networks, there's a lot of variations.

[587] You know, the majority of hunting shows out there, they're called time buys, where we buy the time.

[588] We buy that 30 -minute block on the network, and then we buy a certain amount of advertising, and we sell that advertising.

[589] And then whatever advertising, we don't buy from the network, because within a 30 -minute block, you have six minutes of commercial time.

[590] So it's three, two -minute commercial breaks.

[591] So whether I buy any of those commercial times or not, outdoor channel is going to put in three, two -minute breaks into that programming.

[592] So my 30 minutes turns into 22 minutes, you know.

[593] So what I do is I buy however many 30 -second commercial spots I can sell, I buy that from the network.

[594] I turn around and sell out of margin.

[595] Then within the show content, there's, you know, I get paid to wear somebody's hat.

[596] I get paid to wear somebody's shirt.

[597] You know, if I use a product, I get paid.

[598] And there's different ad placements in there.

[599] And so it becomes more of people think that it's all about hunting.

[600] Hunting is the fun part.

[601] But for me, the business is the fun part, too.

[602] So you're trying to calculate in that 30 minutes, how can I maximize my revenue, you know?

[603] Because you can only have, you have a limited number of advertising spots that you can put in there.

[604] So it's who can I contract and who can we fit in certain places.

[605] It's a very interesting way to produce television.

[606] A lot of folks aren't aware of.

[607] It's cool in a way because there are shows on the hunting.

[608] television that are more like Discovery Channel where the network pays for them to be produced and they actually own the content they're called Outdoor Channel originals or on Sportsman's channel I don't know what they're called whatever more the network is invested into these shows or they give them the air time for certain there's there's a myriad of ways things can be done but I want to own at the end of the day I want to own solo hunter and I want to own Timbernet I want to own my brand you know I don't want just because they're buying the show off me I don't want to have them have any control over me or what I do or what I say or what advertisers I can bring in.

[609] So at the end of the day, yeah, I'm having to front some money and run it as a business rather than somebody paying me to produce a show.

[610] But at the end of the day, there's no limit to what I can make.

[611] There's no limit to the advertising that I can sell.

[612] And I own myself.

[613] I own the show, own the brand.

[614] Are you aware of this whole sort of movement that's going on right now on television, on regular television, like the History Channel and a lot of these other channels, where they're really concentrating on people that are trying to live sustainable lives?

[615] Like the Alaska shows, like Alaska Last Frontier, or there's that other show, Life Below Zero, have you ever seen that show?

[616] Yep, yep.

[617] It's a good show.

[618] A lot of it is hunting.

[619] Yeah, and I follow that stuff probably more than I do in the hunting industry.

[620] Because to me, it's obviously mainstream, but it's more fascinating because you don't have individual little guys like me conceptualizing and coming up with the content.

[621] You have big boys and big rooms making big decisions with big checks.

[622] doing big analysis on viewership and on what people are looking for and all that you have them creating the concepts and the ideas so to me it's like those are the people i want to i want to watch because those are the people with the brains and the backing behind them knowing with the with with their hand on the pulse of what society's looking for so allegedly allegedly which you know you yeah i mean most of the time they're just tv fuckheads the hard thing with that is is like you know there's a larger part of society that are non hunters non outdoors when than there are that are outdoors, but you're starting to see a lot of content, you know, people trying to portray that lifestyle.

[623] Yeah, that's why I asked you because I think it's a, there's, there's this movement right now.

[624] And you see it in like weird ways, like you see it like preppers, like a lot of these weird people that are like canning foods and digging holes in their backyard and burying water bottles and stuff.

[625] Taking dumps and coffee cans, I mean, whatever.

[626] Well, preppers, it's weird, you know, because some of them are like living in cities and they're putting all this stuff together.

[627] And, you know, I kind of got news for you.

[628] If you're living in a city and the shit hits the fan, you better get the fuck out of that city.

[629] That's what I told my wife.

[630] I'm like, you know what?

[631] I'm flying through Vegas into L .A. on 9 -11.

[632] It's like, there's nowhere to go.

[633] Like, I don't know how you guys do it down here.

[634] There's nowhere to escape.

[635] There's nowhere.

[636] Where I'm at, I'm like, okay, out of the back door, go on, middle of the Nevada desert.

[637] You'll never find me. But here, it's like, man, you can't.

[638] Well, it's going to be also, you're going to be surrounded by a bunch of people who don't have any food, who don't have any water.

[639] And they're going to find out that you have food, water, you better have a lot of bullets in fucking Adderall to stay awake.

[640] Don't let people know you've got a year supply of food.

[641] Yeah, don't get on a prepper show where it shows the fuck in front of your house and all your neighbors know where your stored food is.

[642] Crap hits the fan.

[643] There's a lot of us that are in trouble.

[644] Ultimately, society is going to have to bond together and that's where religion, a lot of these groups will come together and that's where it'll become valuable for people that don't see it.

[645] Like, that's where little groups, communities, you know, if you don't know your neighbor man you should know your stinking neighbor because the guy might be my guy might be covering your back one night you know maybe so you need to know your area and you know yeah it's the fan we're all screwed anyways yeah you're almost like i was listening to this other show that i'd listen to all the time called radio lab uh this a podcast and they were talking about uh the impact that killed the dinosaurs and uh when they were talking about it it was like you're just going over like what the original human was like this thing that allegedly came out of you know that impact like what animals what fossils they know of and it's almost like you rather get hit in the head by the asteroid than go through all that shit I know you know you don't want to be the the people that have babies in an apocalyptic environment and then those babies grow on to like fuck man be glad you live in an era where they can make cotton really really soft you know you got soft blankets and warm heat and you don't have to deal with I'm a big fan of civilization but I am a big fan of this we were talking about the prepper thing because I think there's this people are sort of realizing as people pay more attention to a lot of the issues that society has whether it's environmental issues like whether it's pollution or garbage is being dumped into the ocean or the amount of fish that's getting pulled out of the ocean sustainability and they started looking at the ideas of like where their food comes from like people are really into grass fed beef now grass fed beef is a big thing It was just fucking non -existent 10 years ago.

[646] Never saw grass -fed beef anywhere.

[647] Almost every supermarket I go to now has like a little section grass -fed meat.

[648] You know, and people are concerned about animals that are eating what they're supposed to be eating instead of some weird fucking grain.

[649] I got news for people is beef, you know, being here in the West, you know, we see a lot of that.

[650] And the majority of its life is grass -fed.

[651] You know, they turn them out on the range.

[652] They pay fees to BLM or wherever it is.

[653] they're grass fed up until about three months at the end of their life where they're put onto a feed lot fed a bunch of fat foods fattened up so they taste good when i put them on the grill you know i mean that's there's a reason why in my opinion why foods have been engineered and and changed is because it makes them we've got a lot of pop a lot of people to feed you know for one yeah but so in a way that's good but as long as i can go out and just still obtain a deer tag or an elk tag and go out and get my own meat for myself i'm going to continue to to do that you know yeah well it's just it's a totally different kind of meat that was the point is that when you eat a steak from an elk or a deer and then you eat a steak from a cow like one of them is a fat lazy fuck that's like like marbling like that shit's not supposed to be there it tastes so good it does taste so good i love it i had a rib eye last night oh a bone in rib eye oh delicious i'm sure it was not fucking grass fed whatsoever probably never saw grass Probably never feared for its life either Oh, probably not to the end It didn't even know the end, you know, the axe fell And I don't think it's an axe I don't know what it is It's a piston Yeah, right That thing like no country for old men The thing that he uses And then they take a ride And then they take a ride and go I remember in high school I watched a video on the butchering process You know, and that made me sick When they When they killed the cow Made me sick After that it wasn't that big of a deal You know, because I had dealt with that before.

[654] Well, what's weird is when they do it kosher style, like kosher, you have to cut its throat.

[655] And it suffers way more.

[656] Yeah, that's brutal.

[657] It's very strange.

[658] Like, they have rules, and a lot of the rules are, like, old school religious rules.

[659] Like, the reason why you're not supposed to eat pigs.

[660] Well, it's because a lot of pigs carry trichinosis.

[661] That's what they did back in the day, at least.

[662] And so they were telling people, don't eat pigs.

[663] Why?

[664] Because people ate pigs, they got really fucking sick.

[665] So they wrote it down.

[666] Don't eat pigs.

[667] It's against the religion.

[668] The way I grew up, you know, I mean, you talk about orchinosa.

[669] Organic and you talk about raw.

[670] I mean, the way I grew up is probably about as organic and raw as you can get.

[671] I mean, whole milk, straight from the cow.

[672] You milk the cow, take it in, strain it through a cloth, you know, a cloth, chill it, skim the cream off, or shake it in and you drink it.

[673] You know, no pasteurization, nothing.

[674] That's how he grew up.

[675] There was a time there when my dad was a farmer and he lost the farm, so he had to go back to college.

[676] Well, there was a big time stretch in there where we had to sustain.

[677] staying off the land, you know, or off of the farm.

[678] We had animals to eat and, you know, the farmers would come and drop off a sack of potatoes because they knew that, you know, these, those little ruggedy kids, you know, their dad's off going to college and their mom was trying to take care of them.

[679] And so we literally lived off the land.

[680] So your dad was somewhere else and you were on the farm?

[681] Dad went to college in Provo, Utah.

[682] Well, we lived in Central Idaho, you know, because he went back to school to get his teaching degree because we lost the farm.

[683] He was a potato farmer for a long time.

[684] So we're living on the farm.

[685] So we're living on the farm and it wasn't it wasn't unusual for mom to go out grab one of the rabbits that we were raising and i'll never forget the first rabbit you know that i washed washed her kill hung it up smacked it on the head and you know we we had rabbit for dinner and it was there was a lot of times where it's like timothy can you go grab a chicken you know we need we need some we need dinner or whatever and you'd go out and you'd get a chicken and you'd take care of it and bring it in you know there it's just part of the lifestyle that I grew up that you didn't go to the grocery store and get things.

[686] You went out to the garden and you pulled off out of zucchini.

[687] You know, you went and pulled some tomatoes.

[688] What was really cool is the irrigation system that was there, the little ditches.

[689] I mean, asparagus everywhere, wild rhubarb.

[690] I mean, there's all these different kinds of things that we probably did out of necessity during that time span more so than out of, yeah, we're going to live off of our farm, live off of what we create.

[691] But I think that time span taught me a lot about the reality of life and death, the reality of, hey, you can create and be so completely self -sustained.

[692] You know, you can be, create your own food, everything right here just on one tiny little farm.

[693] And then also, you know, that's, that's what kind of gave me a love and a passion with animals because you're raising, you know, a calf from the time it's born, you're bottle feeding it you're feeding it all through through the winter time you know breaking the ice off the water trough and everything else the next spring you're killing it and then you're going to eat it you know so there's that that whole span where you go from life to death in a five six eight month period of time and as a young kid that could be either traumatic or that can be a major life learning experience you know and i took that as this is the way life is that's the way that's the way things happen so when i grew up and you get older and you get to college and people start throwing the uh you you know you eat animals or this and that and the vegetarian stuff and you start learning the things of the world that's where it's like man you people are the ones that are crazy not me you know yeah there's just so much ignorance involved in people that live in cities and you know claim that there's something wrong with people that eat animals it's the the the what's wrong is factory farming there's something wrong about factory farm there's something wrong about jamming a bunch of chickens into a box that's so small they can't move and they cut their beaks off so they don't pick each other's eyes out.

[694] That's the thing is do they have to do that in order to provide enough food for people.

[695] That's right.

[696] I don't know.

[697] That's where I'm ignorant on the subject because it's like, man, part of it is like, well, we got to produce food.

[698] We've got to have GMOs.

[699] We've got to have grain grow faster.

[700] We've got to have these different things just to provide food for people.

[701] There's so many.

[702] Because we're providing food for people all over the world.

[703] So it's like, dang, where's the fine line there?

[704] You know, where's the good point i just think that the ethics involved in in raising animals i think it is important it is important and it's important that these animals don't suffer needlessly but the idea that eating them is wrong it's like boy there's some weird it's it's a very shallow minded argument in my opinion or the not shallow minded but the the the exploration of that idea the exploration of that idea is it's kind of simplistic because is if you just let the animals free, okay, no more, no more livestock, no more this, well, what are you going to do with all those animals?

[705] Are you going to just let them roam free?

[706] And if you let them roam free, how are you planning on driving anywhere?

[707] Because if you're planning on going to, do you want to keep them penned up and you want to keep feeding them and just not eat them?

[708] Okay.

[709] Well, what are you going to do when there's too many of them?

[710] Well, there shouldn't have been that many to begin with, you know, or it's because of the factory farming that there are that many pigs or that many turkeys or whatever.

[711] Well, do you know what they're doing in the Hamptons?

[712] The Hamptons, like a really, really rich area.

[713] I've heard it on your podcast.

[714] That's the first time I heard about that.

[715] They're trying to give birth control.

[716] They're trying to give deer birth control.

[717] I mean, birth control is doing it now?

[718] They're doing it?

[719] Are they doing it?

[720] Yeah, right now.

[721] The fuck is wrong with these people.

[722] They've done birth control in certain cities, I think.

[723] The fuck it's wrong with these people.

[724] You know, birth control, it's like, you know, it's a 22 cent, 308.

[725] I don't know.

[726] I mean, that's birth control right now.

[727] Yeah, just or arrows.

[728] I mean, in one of the shows Waddell and that dude, never heard of him.

[729] Never heard of it.

[730] You know those guys.

[731] Never heard of them.

[732] They went to New Jersey, and they were in, like, this residential neighborhood in New Jersey that has a deer problem.

[733] So they were, like, posted up on these tree stands and these people's backyards just fucking deer everywhere.

[734] These guys, Mark here grew up in New York.

[735] I'm from, Ithaca, yeah.

[736] Oh, yeah.

[737] So that place is mobbed deer.

[738] You can't even drive at night.

[739] Yeah, so what they do is they shut down the parks, and they allow you to go in after all the deer season is done.

[740] And you're allowed to take up to five deer.

[741] and it's so controlled that they want to know at the end of every day you have to log on a piece of paper part of your license what you've seen and how many where they were the guys in boston like mitch and tim were they were showing me where they were hunting right i went to visit where i was like five minutes away from new plymouth rock you know and all they're like hunting right there on the ocean and everything i was just like man that's crazy just overwhelmed with like urban deer or suburban suburban suburban deer yeah that's a big issue also also with ticks because those deer are the ones that are carrying those deer ticks and those the ones that are carrying that Lyme disease and my wife's obsessed with ticks every time she talks me on the phone did you check yourself for ticks no babe I can't see that for her renella and his kid both got Lyme disease and one of his producers never heard of him he got uh he got it really bad though he had his kid had Bell's palsy I don't know that's sad yeah that's crazy it was ugly but he was saying on the last podcast I did with them, but they did some study of ticks in the Hudson Valley, Hudson County or something.

[742] Something like 70 to 80 % of them have Lyme disease?

[743] Wow.

[744] It's a fucking epidemic.

[745] That's crazy.

[746] Well, they had stinking, what's you gonna call it?

[747] Burning Man in Nevada out there.

[748] Oh, yeah.

[749] A bunch of the people got West Nile disease or something from all the mosquitoes.

[750] Yeah, 16 to 23 ,000 people.

[751] What?

[752] Came down with West Nile.

[753] Yeah.

[754] What?

[755] All the more.

[756] reason not to go to burning man there's no need for any more reasons to not go to burning man but if you did need one that's it if i go to burning man is to hand out soap i do find myself up on the mountain though sometimes you're like if i got any ticks but you know i've never i mean there's when i that deer i shot last week holy cow did you see the cape there's ticks everywhere just just literally just and what's crazy is when uh after the animal dies and you're you're i brought it back and i capped it out and everything which is if you don't know what caping is is when you take the hide for mounting you know so you take it off the head and neck and you bring it back you tan it and you have it mounted so you can preserve your you whether it's a trophy or you can preserve your memories or whatever it is but once it dies and it goes through the cooling process the ticks don't have anywhere warm to stay anymore and there's no blood there's nothing so they just start coming out like crazy and uh i mean there was just this pile of ticks i was like man that's you kill them what do i just let them down you can't kill a tick i mean we used on when we have sheep and stuff and would be on the farm you'd kind of roll your fingernail over and crush them and try to kill them but they're tough you're like a flea just don't get them on you yeah they're they're bad they're yucky duh i don't know i i couldn't have lime disease i would never know i think you just start feeling like shit i some days you feel bad some days you feel well they do you remember they're like in the 80s or 90s a lot of people were coming down with chronic fatigue syndrome they linked it to Lyme disease is that what you're yeah people were saying well it was a real issue like people saying oh you know my friend has chronic fatigue syndrome like what does what does that mean well sometimes people just get for whatever reason they're just tired all the time their body aches well why they don't know well now they believe that a lot of those people have Lyme disease because apparently there's a lot of doctors to this day that are reluctant to diagnose someone with Lyme disease and that's what Rinele ran into with his kid yeah he was like I think my kids got Lyme disease and then doctors like ah don't worry about it's nothing and then it turns out it he did and you know he was really fucking pissed off because he brought his kid in there three times but they'll sure slap him on riddling in a hurry oh yeah yeah yeah you'll put your kid on prozac yeah maybe it'll help us i guarantee if i took my kid in they'd be like ah he's a dd you got you gotta calm that kid down i'm like no man he's a boy he's no burning man was not infected with west nile virus see mark you're full of crap what what happened that's the that's the huffington post i'm gonna believe that one they found it in that area yeah and some traps but it wasn't on any people or Oh, okay.

[757] Only one case in that county.

[758] Yes.

[759] So that whole last five minutes of that segment, there was so many people out there screaming.

[760] You guys are wrong.

[761] You're so full of crap for spreading lives.

[762] Every podcast I've ever done, ever.

[763] I got news every, yeah.

[764] There's no way around that.

[765] It doesn't matter.

[766] You just got to do your thing.

[767] So I guess it's not 16 ,000.

[768] It's zero.

[769] Close.

[770] Close, Mark.

[771] Well, when you think about, you know, seven billion people on the planet, you weren't that far off.

[772] I heard.

[773] Close enough.

[774] So back to this movement, this trend that people are having to sort of, I think a lot of it comes with people that are kind of trying to shy away from GMO foods and these people that are trying to move towards sustainability.

[775] And I think that's what's being reflected in a lot of these shows.

[776] But I find it fascinating that people are really into these shows that have never had any desire to hunt.

[777] And they accept it, like especially like Life Below Zero is a really good one.

[778] And they accept how these people live because, well, hey, those people live out in the bush.

[779] They have no choice.

[780] And it's a unique lifestyle choice instead of, you know, hey, Tim Burnett likes to go out and shoot things and hunt them and film it.

[781] But I feel like it's the same thing.

[782] I really do.

[783] I feel like it's exactly the same thing.

[784] It's just they've stylistically labeled it in a different way.

[785] And it became, you know, a reality show about unique people.

[786] Does that mean I have to accept the hippie, you know, that's out there humping like minks all over?

[787] and, you know, transmitting diseases everywhere because that's the lifestyle that they chose, you know?

[788] So it's like...

[789] They hump minks.

[790] Ah, I don't know.

[791] Some minks.

[792] Like the animal?

[793] Rogan, you're ruining my example here.

[794] I'm sorry.

[795] I'm just saying.

[796] Just because they're saying that it's acceptable because those people interjected themselves into that lifestyle.

[797] So it's like, okay, so the people that are living of, you know, whatever lifestyle should I accept that?

[798] Just because they're putting themselves into that lifestyle.

[799] It's like, I don't know.

[800] Well, I have no problem accepting.

[801] lifestyle that doesn't intrude on mine but when I see these um these reality shows whatever you want to call them where these people are living this sustainable life I just I find it super intriguing like almost like in a primal way like I love watching those shows I think it's there's um life below zero there's one guy I think his name is Glenn and uh he lives deep in the woods okay he lives right next to this lake and uh he doesn't have any power there's no he doesn't have a fucking snowmobile like there's levels that these guys do it some guys have snowmobies one guy eric he has a snowmobile and he traps and hunts and he sells the you know the furs and things along those lines and so he gets some money for that for supply and then he also guides he's a hunting guy but this other guy glen he's not none of that i mean all he he has some furs that he sells and with that with the money he gets bullets and that's basically he has tin can you know pots and pans and things along that those lines for cooking but everything he does he's chopping his own wood he makes his own fire with like one of those things he puts like the piece in his mouth with the stick so he can hold it in place and does the whole thing with the fucking with the uh it looks like one of those things you play the violin with you know like a fire bow just a fire bow a fire bow but he it's an old school one where he holds a piece in his mouth that it keeps a stick in place so he could like a he's like got a bone piece so he can use both hands for the moment rather than really get it fast you push down with one arm and you both another arm so he bites down on it with his teeth holds the stick in place and he can make a fire pretty quickly like that it's pretty interesting to watch but he said hey you know you could lose matches matches get wet this i'll never lose so he's gone so old school like as as old school as old school gets and it's amazing it's fascinating but for this guide when he talks about it he talks about how exciting and enriching every day is for him every day has a purpose every day is, you know, acquiring food, living off the land, figuring out of the way to store that food.

[802] He's got this, like, this meat cooler room that he's built that's like a sod house.

[803] So he has all this sod over it, you know, to kind of keep it essentially underground, keep it cool.

[804] And he has all his meat hanging in there.

[805] It's just, it's incredibly fascinating that people are, like, tuned into this stuff and geared, and a lot of my friends that have never had any desire to hunt whatsoever watch these shows and sort of sparks that little fascination inside of them it's got to be good i mean that's got to be a good thing yeah um yeah i mean that's just like alaska the last frontier that's one that i really like yeah and i think that one's kind of twofold the reason i like it is one because the cast members the characters you know they're pretty pretty interesting and i like i like that but two it's it's the assistance lifestyle yeah subsistence lifestyle yeah that that's an interesting one too because there's different people that are in that family that do it different ways like the one guy otto's a cattle rancher and he's got his cattle and then there's the son who just decides no cattle ranching just going to go off a hunting do the whole thing you know good luck yeah good luck well you need it can be done but man it's not as easy as people would think it is yeah 24 hour proposition yeah and then there was there There was one just on Discovery Channel.

[806] It must have only ran for a few weeks called The Hunt or something, where they were documenting or following.

[807] 10 weeks.

[808] Outfitters or something.

[809] Yeah.

[810] That's James Hatfield from Metallica was the host of it.

[811] He got a lot of flack for going on there or something.

[812] But it's like, you know, the mainstream networks, and I guess that's kind of a frustration too.

[813] It's like, well, why can't a hunt and show go mainstream?

[814] Why can't a typical hunt and show go mainstream?

[815] Well, I don't know if society would accept that or not at a mainstream level.

[816] And yet the Discovery Channel can come out with a series like, that that is hunting and it's it's bears you know they're hunting bears it's like how why do why is that okay for discovery channel do that but for me to go out and you know kill a deer and elk i think it's changing that's why i brought that up i and i was going to bring up the hunt because i think it is changing they tried to get james hatfield removed from the glastonbury music festival because he hosts the hunt and they used a photograph that they said was him standing over a grizzly bear but it wasn't even him it's not him but pull that photo up you know that photo that guy who is the actual hunter, he's been sort of going out publicly and promoting this.

[817] Like, I don't know why these anti -hunters use this photo of a guy who kind of sort of looks like James Hadfield, but it's not James Hadfield at all.

[818] So it's complete bullshit.

[819] It's not, what he's doing is just narrating it.

[820] They took into, you know, this idea and they ran with it.

[821] And they're being really dishonest with it.

[822] is the guy.

[823] See, and they're promoting that as James Hatfield.

[824] Just because he was the narrator behind the series.

[825] Yeah, and well, he kind of looks like him a little bit.

[826] But it's not James Hadfield at all.

[827] That's James Hatfield.

[828] I mean, James Hadfield does hunt, but that's not him standing over that grizzly bear.

[829] So the entire premise of this thing that they were doing to try to get people off of or get Metallica removed from this music festival was just a bullshit photograph.

[830] Have you had anything against you for you going hunting?

[831] Oh, yeah.

[832] publicly where it's like oh yeah don't let rogan you know don't let him do anything with ufc anymore no how could you do that cage fighting you got that's the thing about being a cage fighting commentary you're already doing something so fucked up you know you're involved in what some people think is human cockfighting they don't really care if you go out and shoot animals but yeah i've had people angry at me definitely people call me a piece of shit especially for the bear the bear was a bit There's a photo of me and Cam standing over this bearer shot.

[833] And I got more heat for that than anything I ever did.

[834] I think it's because people have this, what they call anthropomorphication, I think, is the word, where they connect animals with human characteristics like yogi bear and fucking all these ridiculous.

[835] We grew up that way.

[836] We grew up with loving those animals, you know.

[837] And they have this idea of what wildlife is that's completely alien from wildlife.

[838] itself.

[839] Right.

[840] Those folks that I went bear hunting with, Cameron Haynes and the Rivets, Johnny and Jenny Rivet, they run this Living the Dream outfitter company up in Alberta, the nicest fucking people you ever want to meet in your life.

[841] And they have animals.

[842] They have dogs.

[843] They love their dogs.

[844] They have a puppy.

[845] Like, people who don't understand hunting.

[846] Would never imagine that these people go out, shoot bears all day and come home and pet their puppy.

[847] You know, it's like, to them, it seems like completely contradictory and alien.

[848] Like, how do you decide what animals you're sure?

[849] shooting and what animals you're you're petting and i can respect i mean you can see why i mean my wife's the same way she's like how can you love animals so much and uh you know when you see a deer hit on the side of the road you're like oh man that sucks it's and then the next week you go out and kill one she's like i don't get that and i'm like well it's it's it's hunting it's not killing you know she eat meat she's meat yeah yeah she uh she's funny she'll try to like i'll cook up some elk steak or something And I'll be like, and I got to admit, I'm not a Ronella.

[850] I'm not, you know, Remy's a great cook.

[851] But I'm like, I'm one of those guys.

[852] I want to slab of meat.

[853] I'm going to put it on the grill.

[854] It's going to hit 120 degrees, whatever, and then I'm going to eat it.

[855] You know, I mean, it's like, I don't want to spend my time preparing food.

[856] I just want to eat it.

[857] And so some of the stuff I cook doesn't taste that great, you know, and that's where it's like, but it's meat, you know, and it's meat that I killed and meat that I brought home.

[858] So I'm going to eat it.

[859] But to her, it's like, ah, that's a waste of time.

[860] So, you know, if I spent more time preparing it and aging it and doing whatever needs to be done with it rather than just cooking it and eating it, she might taste it, but who knows.

[861] So she doesn't eat your game meat?

[862] No, I cooked one time when I was like, babe, this is the best.

[863] It was tenderloin from an elk, you know, and granted, I cooked it on the grill like I probably shouldn't have.

[864] And it was doused with barbecue sauce.

[865] I mean, you couldn't tell.

[866] I couldn't tell because I was like, I want this to taste exactly like beef, which it did.

[867] and she chewed on it took one bite into it and spit it out blah blah blah and of course my boy sees this so he's like i don't ever want to eat deer ever again dad you know because mom spit it out it's like no no no mom just like it's interesting i hammer out it all the time i'm like babe just try it but she's like you can't even cook that in the house you know don't even cook it in the house so she won't let you cook it in the house she will i mean she will i mean i wear the pants around there damn it He's like, he's got to try to reclaim power here.

[868] Like, please, let me be the man. No, but yeah, she's like, if you're going to cook that, go outside.

[869] So it's like, I'll put it on the grill and I'll chew the crap out of it, then I'll eat it.

[870] And I enjoy it.

[871] Well, my wife grew up in a hunting family, so she's used to eating, like, wild games.

[872] She likes it.

[873] And our kids have been eating it since I started hunting two years ago.

[874] So when my youngest daughter was two, it was the first time she had deer.

[875] So she's been eating deer since then.

[876] Like, they'll eat anything.

[877] Oh, my kids have been raised on it.

[878] I mean, they've eaten more wild game than a lot of kids, I'm sure.

[879] And they just don't know.

[880] You know, it's the same.

[881] It's meat.

[882] Meat.

[883] When we cook meat, it's meat, it's meat.

[884] Whether it's a deer or an elk, chicken, whatever.

[885] My two -year -old, she's, everything's chicken.

[886] More chicken, more chicken, you know, and it could be a buffalo for all that.

[887] It doesn't matter.

[888] Everything's chitchin.

[889] Yeah, it's a weird thing where people have this, like, this connection with some animal.

[890] are like your friends and some animals like you should you should never hunt this like i have an agent she's a very nice person she loves animals but she told me oh i don't mind if you killed pigs wild pigs are disgusting they're so ugly like she's like they're ugly she's like they're ugly i'm like is it their fault that they're ugly that's the thing that's it takes me off because like the network promotes us a porcolypse crap oh yeah and i have here's the thing And a little background story to this.

[891] I grew up on a farm, obviously.

[892] At one time, we had a hog operation.

[893] We had hundreds of pigs, you know, whatever.

[894] But, like, I have a love for pigs.

[895] I love animals.

[896] They've got personalities.

[897] They're really cool.

[898] You know, I mean, they're cool.

[899] And so when I see somebody who will rename Nameless on a TV show, you shoot one arrow through two pigs, and that's okay.

[900] But yet, if I shoot one arrow through two deer, you know, even if it's legal or two whatever, it's not okay.

[901] and then the very next minute shoot, you know, a weanling 10 -pound pig in the head with a pellet rifle and watch it sit there and flail on the ground that's bull crap, you know?

[902] Well, let's explain what you're talking about.

[903] With that little pig.

[904] It's like, don't show me that.

[905] Do it.

[906] You can do it.

[907] I don't care.

[908] Don't show me that.

[909] You know, don't show public that.

[910] Because to me, I think the worst enemies for hunters and hunting television are hunters and hunting television.

[911] We're our worst advocate.

[912] And I say we, I lump us all in broad stroke us.

[913] but it's like there's so many out there doing things that yeah it's the reality of it but it's not it's not what needs to be seen i know what you're saying and i'm going to explain it to people who don't know what you're saying um there there are certain shows and there's one show called pig man and i wasn't going to say i said it i said it sorry matt um anyway uh pigman he what they're doing a lot is population control rather than hunting and they are shooting animals but they're shooting animals that have overrun these farms.

[914] So some of them, when you were saying a porcolypse, what they're doing is they're getting these helicopters.

[915] We've played video of it.

[916] It's the craziest shit ever of him and Nugent up in helicopters with fucking automatic rifles taking out pigs like in mass. They shot 450 of them or something in a day once.

[917] It's the craziest thing you've ever seen.

[918] These pigs are running and they're boom, headshot as they're running.

[919] They're tumbling.

[920] And it's not about like we're going to go out and shoot an animal, harvest it and then use it and eat it and you know and show the hunting lifestyle no it's it's it's like it's a murder fest yeah it's like pigs have a pass because of what they are you know what what they're doing because they're causing billion probably billions of dollars in damage yeah crops in that so it's like it's like pigs pigs have been removed from the game animal category they're vermin it's like a cat it's like a coyote they're varmints yeah but i will say probably on those shows i guarantee they have to you know that meat has to be used somewhere and taken and donated and processed.

[921] They can't just leave them lay.

[922] I mean, that's...

[923] I don't think so, but when you're dealing with 450 of them, do they even have the resources to gather up all those pigs?

[924] They better, because if they're shooting that many hogs and they're not doing anything with it, to me, that's bull crap.

[925] Yeah.

[926] They've got to have the resources, just like in New Zealand.

[927] When they go in and call out, you know, the wild deer and that in there because there's no predators, they have the resources to go in with a chopper and pull it out, and they, they harvest that meat.

[928] So if they're shooting 450 pigs, bastards better have a way to keep that meat.

[929] because that's ridiculous if they don't in my opinion my opinion yeah i will i agree with you because it's a massive waste of great meat yeah wild pig is absolutely delicious it's really good for you it's completely different from domestic pig and the way it looks because these animals are eating all kinds of different natural things roots and and grasses and they're not just eating grain it's not like white it's not like a white meat like that was the thing that they had this thing pork the other white meat you remember that campaign if you ever see a wild pig folks it's not white it's not white it's not white at all.

[930] It's fucking red.

[931] It's not as red as a deer, but it's a dark meat.

[932] It's because it's healthy.

[933] We should invest in a barbecue house and just go in, put a barbecue house in Texas, and then just go kill all the wild pigs and use that to get all your meat.

[934] Well, that's what pig man does.

[935] Is that what he does?

[936] Yeah.

[937] I saw that, that show he had.

[938] I was going to call it that stupid series on Discovery.

[939] Here I go again, it's like, don't worry about it.

[940] I saw this.

[941] It's like, you know, the whole concept behind is cool, but it's just, you know.

[942] Well, it's a reality They were doing that.

[943] They were killing the hog and then going and providing it to this.

[944] He had his own barbecue place, yeah, which is a great idea.

[945] Yeah.

[946] But I don't think it's totally legal.

[947] At least it might be in Texas.

[948] You can't sell wild game.

[949] Like if I kill an elk, I can't sell it.

[950] Which is a good thing.

[951] Yeah.

[952] But I can donate it.

[953] And I tell you, the amount of traveling and hunting I do, I donate a lot of meat, you know, a lot of different places.

[954] Yeah, a lot of hunters do.

[955] Yes.

[956] but don't you think that like wild pigs if they became a revenue source like that if they had a restaurant that if they have an animal that is so completely overpopulated and overrun that they don't have any tag limits which pigs are at right now you could just go and shoot fucking pigs all day long and they'll be happy for you including California which is like one of the most liberal states ever which has all sorts of crazy regulations on animals that need to be called and aren't like there's real issues here with mountain lions and there's a real real issue with people that don't want people to hunt mountain lines and they don't understand how ridiculously overpopulated these fucking things are getting and these poor people that are running farms have to deal with these animals coming in and just decimating the population of their calves you know the the the game animals like the people that will tell you about when mountain line hunting was legal in comparison now and then the deer population levels there's no comparison right I mean there's they're fucking everywhere, man. At Tahone Ranch, where I've been pig hunting before, the guy who was, our guide told us that he has a trail camera set up over this waterhole, and he got 16 different mountain lions on camera.

[957] That's fucking crazy.

[958] Do you know how many deer a mountain lions going to eat in a week?

[959] Yeah.

[960] Want to eat couple days.

[961] Yeah.

[962] It's unbelievable how many mountain lions they have, and it's because you can't hunt them.

[963] And that is when you have a predator that can't You can't, if we're going to be the stewards of the land, which is what most people, look, if you're going to accept that we have regulations on game, we have regulations on, you know, fish that you can pull for the ocean, we're supposed to be managing the population of these animals in a smart, intelligent way, and that's good conservation.

[964] But when you remove some animals from that management, simply because of public opinion, non -informed public opinion of people who are animal lovers.

[965] That's ridiculous.

[966] You can't do that.

[967] That's contrary to the very nature of conservation in the first place.

[968] Conservation isn't simply, oh, we need to preserve the habitat and give these animals food and make sure their water's not polluted.

[969] Sure, that's most certainly a part of it.

[970] And for people who don't know, hunters have been responsible for way more money that goes to conserving wildlife habitat, conserving wetlands, than any other group by far.

[971] It's not even close.

[972] no like tree hugger conservation group has come close to generating the amount of money that has gone into conservation as hunters have but because you you're controlling populations of deer controlling populations of elk pigs all that's good but you've got to control fucking predators too and they're realizing that now in a lot of these states where they reintroduce wolves and people are fighting against people hunting wolves like you better fucking go online and research those giant super packs of wolves in Siberia that storm a farm and kill a hundred horses and no one could do a goddamn thing about it because you've got a thousand wolves.

[973] Can you imagine being in a fucking farm and you're looking out the window and you see a pack of wolves just tearing apart horses and no one could do anything about it?

[974] Well, that's what happens when shit gets out of line.

[975] And that's the way wolves work too.

[976] They'll generate those super packs.

[977] There's a great story from World War I where the Russians and the Germans had a ceasefire.

[978] They were in the woods in Russia They had a ceasefire Because so many of them were getting killed by wolves They would send out these packs They would send out rather these These parties would like search parties At two men at a time And they would never come back And they would go out and they'd find their clothes Torn apart covered in blood And then they realized oh my God These guys are getting taken out by wolves They were getting targeted by wolves So when they would have small numbers These guys had rifles They were fucking soldiers And the wolves were eating them I mean and so Stop talking about wolves.

[979] Wolves are fucking scary.

[980] Dude, talking to a guy that spends a lot of time in the wild alone.

[981] Tell me. Next week, next week, I will be camping where there's a lot of wolves by myself.

[982] And it's like, where are you going?

[983] I'm not afraid of bears as much or mountain lions or anything.

[984] Wolves scare the crap out of me. You know, wolves and lightning.

[985] I don't know what it is.

[986] What is about wolves?

[987] Wolves because there's so much unknown about, there's so much unknown about modern wolves.

[988] We know about, you know, wolves of history, old, you know, and in times like that, when there were super packs and all that well they're just now being reintroduced and there's a whole new generation my generation included that we don't know we don't know and understand wolves in there how they hunt and how they you know how they are evolving and so to me there's just so much eerie about them you know so much unproven you know i could be that first guy that does get attacked and killed by a wolf you know that's that's there because there's more people now too So there's more of a chance of a wolf being conditioned to people or public than there ever has been before.

[989] So I think that it's just, it's a different animal today than it was 100 years ago or 200 years ago.

[990] And the thought of me, you know, me or a hunter somewhere in there, you get a pack that's just in the wrong mentality that maybe hasn't been hunted that much or hasn't been pressured that much because you're way back in the wilderness.

[991] You know, they may be a little bit more aggressive than what you would like, you know.

[992] So they just kind of creep me out a little bit.

[993] They should creep you out.

[994] In the 1400s is a story called the Wolves of Paris.

[995] Have you ever heard of that stories?

[996] No, I haven't.

[997] Wolves killed 40 people in Paris to the point where people had to...

[998] In the city itself, yeah.

[999] In the city of Paris, they had killed 40 people.

[1000] And there was a man -eaten wolf pack in 1450, and the animals entered the city during the winter through breaches in its walls.

[1001] This is so crazy.

[1002] and this one uh they they had eventually uh counter they had cornered the wolves and they were killing them with stones and spears in front of the notre dame cathedral that's a fucking crazy story that's like taking coyotes of today because there's coyotes roaming around here probably and turn him into wolves you know if that's if that's a wolf in that environment that's crazy yeah well even scarier because they're obviously a lot bigger and creepier but people throughout history have had real issues with wolves but today we associate wolves with being dogs we think of them as dogs like anybody would hunt a wolf as an asshole what do you think the little red riding hood story why was that about a wolf why was that about a wolf why is it the big bad wolf why is the three little pigs and the big bad wolf because wolves were a fucking issue you'd go into the woods and the thing you'd be worried about was wolves yeah do you want your kid not to be able to walk to school because there's wolf room in the area you know or whatever it's like yeah i don't know But people don't want people hunting wolves.

[1003] It's one of the biggest blowbacks.

[1004] Well, it goes back to what you just said, you know, said earlier, and it's not exactly the same thing, but you're like, you don't care what lifestyle people eat as long as it doesn't affect you.

[1005] Same concept here.

[1006] People don't give a crap about other stuff as long as it doesn't affect them.

[1007] So it's like they can, we all, we all fall into it a little bit, we can be hypocritical and say, you know, I don't like this and I don't like this and this because that's going to affect me. But if somebody wants to, you know, if they want to go out and do this, that's fine.

[1008] I don't care, you know.

[1009] So they look at it as, well i guess i don't know where i'm going i just kind of lost that too no but it's like you're right they're like the people that don't interact with those wolves like i don't want you killing those wolves because the wolves don't hurt me the wolves don't bother my kids walking to school so don't kill the wolves well it's yeah but you know my kid might get pounced on by a mountain lion because we live in the rural countryside you know well not only that you have to keep their populations down for the health of all the other animals that are around them as well like they can start decimating wildlife populations they've done that with elk They've done that with deer in the areas where they've been reintroduced.

[1010] The numbers of elk have drastically received.

[1011] Dude, I'm from Idaho, man. I know that full on, the valley where I grew up.

[1012] I mean, in the late 90s, early 2000, I mean, elk, it was elk hunting heaven.

[1013] There was elk coming down and eaten out of our cattle feeder, you know, right at the back of mom and dad's house.

[1014] Wow.

[1015] You know, there was elk everywhere, and the hunting was awesome, and they weren't bothering the crops or anything.

[1016] Well, then the wolves come in.

[1017] Can you imagine, can you picture a herd of elk, you know, and all the hunting.

[1018] all of a sudden there's, oh, there's a real big dog over there.

[1019] Oh, that's a big coyote.

[1020] The coyote starts picking them off, and it takes them quite a while before they learn and condition themselves that, hey, that's not a coyote.

[1021] That's something different.

[1022] So those herds were just standing, they were just, it's like a turkey shoot.

[1023] They had never been around wolves.

[1024] No, they'd experienced mountain lions, coyotes, and bears, which don't hunt like wolves do.

[1025] They don't hunt in.

[1026] So a pack of wolves comes in, they think there's the damn coyotes again.

[1027] Whoa, where Jimmy go?

[1028] You know, what's going on here?

[1029] And the next thing, you know, it takes them.

[1030] years to condition themselves to where now elk hunting today is different than it was 15 years ago because the elk act differently.

[1031] I mean there's certain instances where it's similar, but they're a different animal to hunt today than they were 20 years ago.

[1032] Have you ever been hunting in any way and had to kill and had to keep a predator off the kill?

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] So I was hunting deer, white -tailed deer actually in northern Idaho with a bow.

[1035] This was in like 2008, 2009, something like that and i was filming the hunt you know this was before i started the tv show but at that time i already had the concept of a solo hunter in mind so i'm filming everything and it just the light like it's dark and so i go to take the camera off the the arm that i had and i flip the switch and the camera down the bottom of the tree crushed so it's like crap well then a deer comes out i'm like well i'm going home tomorrow anyway so i grab my bow thumped the deer and i'm sitting there and the deer kind of goes over and starts to do the wobble thing well next thing you know a bear pulls out a black bear comes up and takes the deer down and immediately pulls it over this hillside and i'm like that was pretty dang cool i wish and i was just i was more mad at myself than awestruck because i was like i dropped my damn camera out of the tree and i could have filmed that but um so i was more like just upset so i thought no big deal i'll just climb down go down spook the bear off get my deer go home no big deal so i go and i'm trailing trailing this deer and all i've got is my flashlight in one hand of my bow and the other and I can hear the bear sliding it down the hillside and it's a pretty steep grade and I'm like bear making noise doing whatever because I'd have experiences with bears and it didn't wasn't that big of a deal but then everything got quiet and then I was like and where I screwed up was I picked up the phone and called my wife hey babe I'm trailing a deer I'll be home tomorrow what's going on I'm like oh this bear took it and I was like oh stupid why would you say that because then from then on I was like ah and so from then all my wife's been freaked out about bears but so i'll finish the story but so i'm i'm trailing all of things you get super quiet i'm like good the bear just kind of ran off i'm gonna go find my deer and i stood up on this uh this stump it was kind of a logged area i stood up on this stump and i'm looking around with this flashlight just kind of panning around looking for the deer and all of a sudden i hear heard just kind of a noise i'm like this right at the base of that stump that bear was on top of that deer and he's just like he just hoofed one time i just how far away from you oh four or five feet six feet i don't know i mean it was close right i mean i'm standing on the stump and he's on this side on top of the deer so i just kind of jump back and went back up i'm like what was i thinking going after a bear that just took down a deer that thinks that's a deer he just took down so he's going to be like defending it defending it and i was like you stupid fool you could have just you could have just it could have been over right there you know so the next morning i go in no big deal daylight the deer the bear doesn't have you know he's not doesn't have big of cahones during the day i guess but he just ran off.

[1036] I grabbed the deer.

[1037] I have that on film.

[1038] Actually, if you look at the first solo hunter episode, it's episode 101.

[1039] It's got that where I kill a deer, but then I do a flashback of the year before when I was filming that hunt.

[1040] And I've got my little handy cam that I filmed.

[1041] You can see all the scratches all over the deer, and you can see where the bear had eaten it out from the hind end and all that kind of stuff.

[1042] How much of the bear, how much of the deer did the bear eat?

[1043] He had only eaten part of the hindquarters.

[1044] You know, they always go in through the butthole and through the soft tissue.

[1045] But you could see where he had scratched it up.

[1046] and where he had drug it down and just ate part of the hind quarters but you know for the most part the deer was fine salvageable so i just cut him up and took him home so when you when you have an animal like that that another animal is eaten part of it do you worry about it being contaminated anyway is there any concern i didn't even think about it there i mean obviously you're cooking it above a certain temperature anyway but i didn't even think about that i don't i don't even know honestly if that could have been an issue you know with a bear eating eating the meat i don't know Anybody out there know if I could have gotten sick?

[1047] Do you cut around?

[1048] Maybe that's why I have trouble is getting out of bed.

[1049] Something's wrong with my eyeballs.

[1050] Do you cut out around the airway?

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] Yeah, I cut out.

[1053] But, you know, it's just, I don't know.

[1054] I didn't even think about that.

[1055] The rivets that I told you about, the guys up in northern Canada, they shot a bear and it was getting dark, and so they went back in the morning to recover it, and another larger bear was eating it while they got there, and they're like, oh, great.

[1056] That's crazy.

[1057] real issue up there with cannibalism cannibalism is standard and it's just going to get worse you know as the numbers increase it can only get worse can't it i mean until they get get disease or you know and have a die off i mean because nature has a kind of a way of taking care of itself maybe before man came along anyway there was how many millions of buffalo roaming the countryside and i'm sure there were areas where a disease or something was spread and there was a die off and so the herds moved off and split off and that's how that's kind of how animals maybe maybe moved across the countryside is is different elements of of nature that happened you know so we look at this as we're like you know i'm on this earth for 80 90 years hopefully well that's that's nothing in evolution of animals or in the how how a herd or or certain species might evolve in an area you know an elk curd could grow up to a certain number and then it could have a die off because of sickness they could grow again well that might take a hundred years you know for that process to so for us to actually see that that population curve but then that's when you start talking about introducing the wolves that population curve takes a big dive quick but you know what was the logic behind reintroducing wolves bureaucracy I guess I don't know because wolves are cute and cuddly and they want them in Yellowstone because it's a park but oh there's no fences around yellowstone I didn't know that did you know that there's no fences around Yellowstone I mean grizzly's the next next thing we got Grizzlies in Idaho that are starting to cause issues and you know there's there's there's all kinds of instances in montana that grizzly's the next animal to to start causing issues i believe just because for some reason now it seems like nature is at its prime for bear populations to grow you look at bear numbers hog numbers all these all these populations of animals numbers are continue to steadily grow massively and i think that's just the the natural curve of where we're at that if we weren't involved in managing it or anything it had hit that precipice where diseases and cannibalism and all these things would take over and nature would curve itself back down to get sustainable numbers or they would just out eat to eat themselves out of home you know when you stumbled upon that bear and that bear was like four feet away from you with the deer did you just back out of there i just backed away yeah i was just like whoa went back up and then uh slept in my truck that night and then the next morning i just kind of went around i had my and brought in my gun and uh just a couple shots on the hillside the bear runs off you you get the deer did you ever watch that show the hunt i did i watched one or two episodes of it and my problem is i look at it i'm ruined because as a producer i watch everything as a producer rather than as a viewer and so it kind of i hate that because i can't ever watch something and and get true entertainment out of it or true value well yeah i know what you mean but it was badly produced in my opinion i i felt like first of all they kept using this fake bear sound the same sound over and over again they would interject it and you knew that they were interjecting it because all of a sudden like there would be like a shaky camera why is a bear going to be growling and exactly roaring a bear's going to be damn silent until he's ready to kill you and they would do it over and over again right before they cut to commercial like so they like to get you to like tune in like the camera shaking but you know what I guarantee everybody watching that's like oh bears make noise in the wild and that's the problem with shows like you know like that they're putting on the mainstream there was one called chasing tails on there for a while on A &E or one of those where it's like everybody associates hunters as flannel wearing overweight middle -aged bearded men, you know?

[1058] And we're not.

[1059] We're businessmen.

[1060] We're regular people or whatever, you know, you, and there's all these types of people that are hunters and that are outdoorsmen, but society sees us as bubba.

[1061] Well, in movies too, like, because that's how it's portrayed.

[1062] Wolverine movie, they're assholes that had poisoned the deer.

[1063] Hunters are asses.

[1064] I didn't know.

[1065] I didn't know.

[1066] But drunks, they usually drunk, you know.

[1067] And that's because it's the same concept as, you know, Disney portrayed animals as people.

[1068] So we think of animals as people.

[1069] Well, Hollywood and whatever else portrays hunters as the dumbest, yeah, the most simple -minded drop.

[1070] When in reality, you look at the science and the management behind conservation and wildlife conservation, it's not stupid stuff, you know.

[1071] No, it's not stupid stuff at all.

[1072] It's very calculated.

[1073] This stuff is contraceptives for deer.

[1074] That's stupid stuff.

[1075] Yeah, that's birth control for deer that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars when deer are delicious.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] So they're running around instead of just having hunters come in and shoot them with bows and arrows or crossbows, whatever, you could control the population like that.

[1078] It would only take a couple of weekends and they could, you know, do big, and get a lot of meat out of it.

[1079] Instead, they're going to spend hundreds of thousand dollars and give them birth control.

[1080] What do you think is the answer for people when, what, you mean, what is it going to take for, have you ever if you've ever convinced somebody that hunting is okay well i mean what's the answer what's what's the main thing how can we how can we educate people to where it's like you know hunting is not what what you've been taught or what you think it is what certain people say it is well i try to do it well i don't i'm not trying to educate people but in discussing it and people listening to these discussions they kind of get a more nuanced balanced perspective and i know for a fact that there's a lot of people that post on my message board that have talked about how they had one opinion of hunting before the podcast and a completely different opinion of it now and they also never factored in the hypocrisy of wearing leather having a leather couch leather seats in your car leather jacket and then complaining about hunting they they don't they're we're disconnected and that disconnection has led us to be like spoiled little kids we don't understand where all this is coming from we don't have a direct interaction with the food itself And when you do have a direct interaction with the food itself, when you've killed the animal yourself, the whole process is a completely different thing.

[1081] You know, I'm eating an animal that I stalked, shot, butchered, sliced up, put into packages, vacuum sealed it, put it in my freezer, thought it out, cooked it, ate it.

[1082] From A to Z, it's been in my hands.

[1083] And that's a completely different experience than 99 % of anyone who eats meat is ever going to have.

[1084] and I encourage people I think if you could do it if you have the time I think a lot of people don't know where to start that's one thing yeah they don't yeah I'm deal I've got some friends right now there's three of them that are just starting starting out hunting last year they killed their first deer you know and it's it's funny to it's not I say funny it's it's interesting to see their evolution because they're like searching YouTube for everything they're like well how would you do this how would you do that and I'm like I don't know I just do it they're like well they had to search on YouTube to find out how to gut a deer and so they have this little video clip of them gutting this deer and trying to take it all apart.

[1085] It's the funniest thing, but it's like, well, these are grown men figuring it out on their own.

[1086] There's nobody out there to teach them.

[1087] There's no schools that are like, hey, you want to be a hunter?

[1088] Come to my school.

[1089] You don't pay tuition, do this.

[1090] And it's like, if you want to learn, it's got to be hands on.

[1091] It's got to, you've got to have a mentor or you've got to have, because I get emails like that all the time.

[1092] How do I get started?

[1093] How I live in, I live in Arizona and I hunt these mountain ranges?

[1094] How do I find the deer?

[1095] Because I spend countless hours trying to find deer.

[1096] How would you hunt this area?

[1097] I don't know.

[1098] I don't live there.

[1099] Well, you'd have to, there's a lot of information they're asking for, too.

[1100] You'd have to go there, you'd have to tell them, how much do you know?

[1101] You'd have to explain to them what deer habitat is, where they, where they're nest, where they bed, rather.

[1102] And there's also, it's interesting, but it's sort of, there's a comparison to be made for you learning how to use computer software to edit video.

[1103] You just taught yourself.

[1104] If you want to do it, you just got to kind of figure it out and teach yourself.

[1105] And the cool thing about today is you can watch.

[1106] those YouTube videos.

[1107] I mean, back in the day, what would you have done?

[1108] You've gotten a book or something and try to, like, look at the diagrams and do what I did.

[1109] You start cutting.

[1110] Bloody hands and start cutting stuff comes out.

[1111] You can fuck things up like that.

[1112] Just start cutting, right?

[1113] You know, get the tarsal glands all over the meat and smell like shit and, you know, there's a lot of people that ruin meat because they don't understand the proper preparation and how to take care of it once they actually kill an animal.

[1114] Yeah, there's a lot.

[1115] to it and I think talking about it is real good I think it's important to have guys like you on and Ronella and Cameron Haynes and Jim Shocky when he comes on to get an understanding of who these people are that actually are hunters that they're not those flannel shirt wearing yokels that you see in these really cartoonish and character you know caricature characterature characterature what's the word caricature caricature characterature why am I saying turature characterature caricature the caricatures of hunters these cartoonish shitheads i think yeah i think you're smart by having somebody like shocky because he's a he's a he's a different he's a different person than me or steve or remi or cameron you know we're different than what he is he's something special in that even if you took that man outside of the hunting industry and put him into something else if he was an oil man or say if he was a cattle man or whatever he's got a personality about him and a philosophical way of speaking and knowledge about him that he's going to educate people just based off of what he knows and how he's going to say something he and i could say the exact same things but the way he says it you're going to be like damn i i get that right i say it you're going to be like this guy's a fool you know tim you're a little hard on yourself well i'm just saying i'm trying to build up shocky here i mean i know the guy needs every bit of it he can get right you know guys like me we got it all it's like no but i'm saying is i'm glad you're having him and i'm going to it's definitely a podcast i'm going to be tuning into because i like his philosophy behind not only hunting but life and also behind you know family and everything else yeah i do as well i think he's a i think he's a great person for that you know and i think it's can i think that's the type of person that for broad society is your spokesperson well i think rnella is a great one as well because he's so well read he's a great writer and he's super educated super educated in a guy who really truly cares about environments really truly cares about hunting really truly cares about conservation And he's a guy that's in fucking fantastic shape I mean, I went hunting with him And the one thing that I was blown away with Is how physically demanding hunting is Like hiking, I looked at hiking I'm like, that's for fucking people Don't really work out, a bunch of pussies It's just walking but uphill It's fucking hard, man Especially when you're holding a rifle So you're not swinging your arms You got a pack on Like you get exhausted quick Did you have to pack your deer out Or was it like in an area where you didn't have to break it down And put it in your pack?

[1116] What do you mean?

[1117] Your deer?

[1118] when you hunted in Montana?

[1119] Did you have to break it down and pack it out on your back?

[1120] Yeah, we, well, there's three of us.

[1121] It was me, Callan, and Ronella, so my friend Brian Callan.

[1122] So when we went to get my deer, we had it, we shot it that night, gutted it, took the liver and the heart, cooked that that night, and then put it up in a tree.

[1123] We hung it in a juniper tree.

[1124] So we went there to get it in the morning because it was kind of late.

[1125] And we had seen some mountain line shit in the area.

[1126] It was kind of disconcerting.

[1127] This big ropey shit filled with hair.

[1128] Yeah, but the mountain lines have been hunted in that area, they probably wouldn't even come close to you.

[1129] Oh, yeah?

[1130] Yeah, good.

[1131] I don't like those fucking things.

[1132] I've seen two mountain lines in my life.

[1133] How do you really?

[1134] You haven't here while you're in California, I guess.

[1135] No, never shot one.

[1136] I lived in Colorado.

[1137] Yeah, you did.

[1138] I saw the picture on, uh, on, uh, social media.

[1139] Come on, man. Yeah, this, they, I killed with a belt.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] That's what I heard.

[1142] So silly.

[1143] I heard you took your gie off and strangled it.

[1144] My own sister asked me if I killed a mountain line.

[1145] Really?

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] I'm like, what the fuck do you think about?

[1148] Kill a mountain line with a belt?

[1149] You're kidding me and kill a house cat with a belt Try to get a house cat Hold on to that fucker and kill with a belt That thing will scratch your eyes out Yeah It's a 150 pound house cat Are you fucking crazy?

[1150] I've seen two I saw one in Colorado Really briefly Both of them have been about the same size Like 60, 70 pounds Like dog size And the other one I saw in Montecito Which is like a residential area in Santa Barbara I was driving on the street We saw this thing run across the street And first we thought it was like coyote then I saw the tail his tail's like bobbing around I'm like oh shit that's a cat and it had more of a bouncy way like coyotes have that sort of stiff yeah fucking creepy scared to death shitty way of running never seen a coyote sleep no that's because they don't they're used to getting shot at and chased down I'm you imagine being a coyote that's like the worst life ever it's a sucky life other than like a rabbit I'd rather be a rabbit than a coyote For real?

[1151] Because people have rabbits for pets.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] Yeah, exactly.

[1154] Yeah, they're dirty.

[1155] They're stinky fucking little animals.

[1156] I got a coyote cushion at home, like a pillow that's covered in coyoteskin.

[1157] It's gross.

[1158] It's like sleeping on a dog.

[1159] My wife bought it.

[1160] It's not mine.

[1161] She's like, I like coyotes.

[1162] Well, she ordered like a couple different kinds of animal skins that were converted into pillows.

[1163] And for whatever reason, she hates coyotes.

[1164] So for whatever reason, she got a coyote one.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] She's like, babe, I brought home this animal skin.

[1167] Couch, that's a sheep, babe.

[1168] It's a sheep tart.

[1169] Well, we have chickens.

[1170] We have 24 chickens, so we have this fencing area where the coyotes are trying to figure out how to get to the chickens.

[1171] So we'll find them near our backyard all the time.

[1172] And she loves these chickens.

[1173] She takes care of them, so she particularly hates coyotes.

[1174] They're always trying to figure out a way to sneak in.

[1175] You know, and they've killed dogs in our neighborhood before.

[1176] They'll snatch one off a leash.

[1177] I have a friend who lives in Brentwood, which is another residential area, and his neighbor was walking her.

[1178] dog she had like a little dog walking she heard click click click click click click click click click she didn't know what it was she thought it was like a dog you know behind her and the coyote just ran up snatched a dog right off of her fucking leash and ran that's a hungry dog that's a hungry coyote yeah it was running away with her dog like the dog was just trying to and she's screaming and the leash is being dragged behind and it's just running with her dog you know yeah sad and weird it's weird that there's those creepy predators are wandering around and it just decided to bust a move like this is the time time to take that dog yeah i got bit by a coyote did you really yeah yeah i was uh i don't know trying to fuck it and uh yeah no 11th grade 11th grade it was whoa yeah it was a long time ago but i was doing the dishes and look outside it was about five o 'clock in the afternoon and i'm and looking we lived in a trailer park so the trailer next door there's a there's a coyote underneath underneath they're just batting around playing around with uh some toys and all kinds of balls and stuff.

[1179] So I get out and I had a 22, go around the back side, and I see him, and he jumped up at the close on the clothes line, and I rifled like two or three at him, and I missed.

[1180] He ran straight into the woods.

[1181] I went back in, I had a freaking rabbit call, like a distress call.

[1182] Whoa.

[1183] Yeah, I shot back probably 200 yards, and I got up against a tree, and I started blowing that freaking thing, and sure shit, that thing came running right at me, and he backed me up against the tree, and I lift my, my foot up and he latched right onto my boot and I shot him point blank and I emptied out the whole the whole entire clip yeah and it thing smelled uh like skunk really bad but yeah and it's a lot of hair missing off of it but though it was weird because that week before I had uh two two little doxins in the family and I like we used to let them outside no leash they go take a shit come back only one came back and uh we think that maybe he you know He may have took him.

[1184] Yeah, most likely, right?

[1185] Yeah, we never got a back.

[1186] Last week in Silicon Valley, a mountain line viciously mauled a six -year -old boy.

[1187] Some kid was hiking with his parents, and the kid was behind them, and a mountain line came up behind, attacked the kid.

[1188] The parents yelled at it and screamed and chased after the mountain line and just, like, tried to hit it, and it dropped the kid and ran off, but the kid got fucked up.

[1189] Yeah, I heard that.

[1190] They scared it away, but so then they set hunters loose on this cat.

[1191] and dogs and everything like that and they you know this is another another issue that they have with mountain lions in california because they're not hunting them yeah that's crazy yeah it is crazy and it's crazy how people have this idea that they're these beautiful things and they are beautiful they're they're interesting they're fascinating but you got to keep those fuckers in check you know and that's a real issue with people that don't understand wildlife they just have these liberal points of view that's based on no reasoning, no logic, not a balanced perspective, no real true understanding of wildlife.

[1192] Their understanding is just based on what they think is right, what they think is, leave them alone, there's natural animals.

[1193] Yeah, and then you go hiking and you're going to get eaten, you fuck.

[1194] Do you understand that?

[1195] They're big giant monsters.

[1196] If those were were were werewolves, you would be sending packs of fucking military people in the woods to try to kill the werewolf.

[1197] Well, a mountain lion's way fucking scary than a werewolf, because it's not just a mountain lion one day out of the month.

[1198] Okay, the wolfman turns into the wolfman, and the full moon comes out.

[1199] Mountain lions wake up every morning, a mountain lion.

[1200] I'm a mountain lion.

[1201] I'm going to kill something.

[1202] And they kill big things with their face.

[1203] They're used to killing deer and elk and shit that runs really fast, and they kill it with their face.

[1204] And you're content with those things wandering around because they just look beautiful.

[1205] That's ridiculous.

[1206] I'm not saying that we should wipe them off the face of the earth.

[1207] but we should come really close there should be like four left yeah four left all of them in Oklahoma you know with radio tag yeah leaving with Oklahoma with tags on that we we have a fucking a group of scientists that are monitoring their their progress on a screen whenever they come anywhere near a person there's really you know hunters I think hunters would be glad to take the place of the mountain lions and keeping the population in check for yes yes and and eat that meat and you know use it for people I'm on team people You know, I like people.

[1208] Team man. Team human.

[1209] That's right.

[1210] Yeah, like people way better than other animals.

[1211] I think animals are amazing.

[1212] People are way better.

[1213] You can talk to them.

[1214] They make you laugh.

[1215] You hang out with them.

[1216] There are species.

[1217] You breed with them.

[1218] They live in your neighborhood.

[1219] I mean, it's fucking ridiculous.

[1220] You can breed with animals.

[1221] You can't, though.

[1222] You can't, you can't.

[1223] Even if you fuck them, nothing happens other than you get happy.

[1224] I promise my wife, I'd keep everything straight.

[1225] Impossible.

[1226] I know.

[1227] No. Does you promise her?

[1228] No. I told Mark, Mark's like, I'm like, Mark, you know, when we get to talk and I have a tendency to dip a little bit.

[1229] I'm like, you need to keep me on that level plane.

[1230] Don't let me go.

[1231] What does that mean?

[1232] Dip what?

[1233] I like good humor.

[1234] I like good humor.

[1235] Tim can get raw.

[1236] I can't get raw.

[1237] Are you worried about your perception, the perception of people?

[1238] No, no. I'm not worried about my perception of people because, you know, people are going to think of you what they do.

[1239] Right.

[1240] But I worry about me. You know, I have a perception of myself that I like to maintain, you know, which is, which has been, and I believe is, it is what it is, you know.

[1241] When you meet me face -to -face, it's the exact same as when you meet me anywhere else.

[1242] Well, you're the same guy from that show.

[1243] You're the same guy from your show.

[1244] Yeah, I think, you know, I think I'm more of a badass in real life than I am on the show, honestly.

[1245] It will a way.

[1246] I watched back of the editing, you know, like I'm combing through some of the footage that I just filmed last week.

[1247] I'm like, man, I got my guts hanging over my belt, and I'm like, I'm talking.

[1248] I slurred over my voice and everything.

[1249] And I'm like, I just don't look tough, you know.

[1250] And I'm like, I'm tough.

[1251] Whenever you say it like that, I'm tough.

[1252] It's tough to convince people.

[1253] You know, I don't have that, you know, I don't have that deep raspy voice and stuff.

[1254] So it's like, you know, yeah.

[1255] We're all, we're all tougher in our own minds.

[1256] You don't, you don't have to project it.

[1257] Everybody thinks they do.

[1258] But when you try, you just something else.

[1259] If you try to, if you try to create your brand and who you are and what you think you want people to think of you as, you're just going to be a dof.

[1260] You're a douchebag.

[1261] You just got to be yourself.

[1262] I like how you went with doof, but I know what you were trying to say.

[1263] Because I didn't want to go.

[1264] I didn't want to keep that even plain.

[1265] It's a douchebag.

[1266] Because I did post a picture to that, you know, last night of the, had the word douchebag in it.

[1267] Did you?

[1268] You got in trouble?

[1269] No, I just kind of second thought it a little bit.

[1270] I'm like, I just posted that.

[1271] Should I have done that, you know?

[1272] And it's like, what's wrong with douchebag?

[1273] Because it's really how I feel, you know?

[1274] It's really how I felt about the man. So it's like that.

[1275] Who was the douchebag?

[1276] What was it about?

[1277] He's running our country, you know?

[1278] Oh, Obama?

[1279] It was a bumper sticker on this truck.

[1280] It said it had a douchebag with the Obama, with the president's emblem.

[1281] He has the O. And then underneath that the guy was selling his truck, so he had written in soap for sale.

[1282] So I just'm like, oh, that's pretty cool.

[1283] Dushaback for sale.

[1284] Click.

[1285] And so I post this, not even thinking.

[1286] And it's like, oh, is the CIA going to come out?

[1287] Because I've seen stuff that guys post or whatever.

[1288] And they're like, they shut down my Facebook page or whatever.

[1289] And it's like.

[1290] They can do that.

[1291] And it's so weird.

[1292] If you criticize the president too harshly or if there's any threat whatsoever of violence, like, I'm going to kick the president's ass.

[1293] They'll come after you.

[1294] They should, too, though.

[1295] You know what?

[1296] They should.

[1297] But so I, because, you know, I'm the nice guy.

[1298] On the outward side, I'm a nice guy.

[1299] At home, I'm a nice guy, whatever.

[1300] But I'm a badass on the mountain.

[1301] I'll tell you that.

[1302] I see what you're saying.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] I see what you're saying.

[1305] The Second Amendment is a funny issue when it comes to Obama because there was a, they had this recording of him doing this speech and talking about guns, and he was talking about how people want to keep their guns.

[1306] They're never going to let you take their guns.

[1307] And I'm like, what a weird thing it is where people, representative government, where people are elected, they get into a position of power, and then they look at people and they say things like, they're never going to let you take their guns.

[1308] They're going to like, why would you, what are you trying to do?

[1309] Like, why are you trying to take their guns?

[1310] If you're just a person and what you are as a president, yes, you're the leader of the country.

[1311] Yes, you're the commander in chief and all that.

[1312] But essentially, you're just a person.

[1313] So if you're a person, why are you trying to take away other people's guns?

[1314] Do you think that people shouldn't have guns because they're all dangerous?

[1315] Because statistically, that's a real tough argument.

[1316] Statistics don't matter to people like that.

[1317] I know they don't care.

[1318] Well, that's why those people are ridiculous.

[1319] Anybody in that sort of a position that has that sort of a point of view, like, if you're going to be the fucking president of the United States, you've got to be able to back up everything you say with logic and science.

[1320] And if you look at the amount of people we have in this country, there's 350 million motherfuckers in this country, okay?

[1321] Not all of them are motherfuckers, but some of them, good and bad.

[1322] Three hundred fifty million people in this country.

[1323] There's probably 350 million guns.

[1324] Half of them are gun owners.

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] Statistically speaking, half of them are gun owners.

[1327] Probably.

[1328] Then look at how many people are actually getting killed by guns.

[1329] The number is ridiculously low.

[1330] Which means that most people are really good at controlling themselves.

[1331] Most people have cars, and they don't just drive into crowds of people.

[1332] But some people occasionally do.

[1333] If enough people do that, are we going to take away cars?

[1334] The thing of it is, is like, you could have those people sitting here across from you, and you can be explaining to them, and you can have the statistical data, and you can have the proof and the facts and everything.

[1335] They're still not going to care.

[1336] They don't care.

[1337] Because there's more to it than just doing what's right and doing what is statistically fact.

[1338] There's always an agenda.

[1339] behind it there's something that they want to push well as a control is it they just want to control people or what is it who knows but when you look at everything that like like the government is doing and even small things of something as simple is given out 12 ,000 bayonets to the police force what are you trying to do create your own your own army are you waiting for a civil war i mean what's what's going on here why are you buying yeah they provided the armies or the local police local police and i you know i'm probably speaking out of turner because i don't know all the facts whatever but it's like 12 000 bayonet what do you do you do need a bayonet for anyway this isn't this isn't the world war two we're not numb whatever yeah but then it's like we bought how many millions of rounds of ammunition you know so it's like well there's all the conspiracy theories and all that kind of thing but you sit back and you think you're like why are they doing that you know what what's going on here what are they trying to create or what are they why did they decimate you know the military why did they fire all these commanders that that did such a badass job of taking taken out the bad guy you know why did you pull out of iraq why just fact and data and numbers and what's right and what's wrong there's it's it's man you know there's power hunger or something to it there's a lot of public perception issues i don't there's something sick going on that i don't get in what way it just nothing makes sense wouldn't you think that if you're if you're the leader of of the country you would do things that the majority of people would think make sense like what what doesn't make sense to you i think what doesn't make sense to me is pushing, like take the immigration issue.

[1340] I heard a statistic the other day, whether it's right or wrong, that 9 million people in the greater L .A. area, potentially half of them illegal.

[1341] There's more than 9 million people here, right?

[1342] And there's like 20.

[1343] It was like the greater L .A. city area.

[1344] It was a smaller.

[1345] Whatever it was.

[1346] They used the number 9 million.

[1347] They said, they said potentially there's up to half of those are illegal.

[1348] Not documented.

[1349] Which to me is like, well, that's one city.

[1350] but why would they allow the people to come across the border just so openly and now it's like as a parent I have a kid in school and if they're putting these people and busing them all across the country and letting these people go in school without even asking their ages or having to go through medical checks like my kids do or any of those types of things it's like what's the reasoning behind that it's not a humanitarian you know if you were humanitarian you'd block the damn border off and not let people come across and experience all that you know suffering but then as me as the humanitarian little bit of humanitarian that I have I mean, it's like, man, if I'm in that position, I'm coming across the border, too, and I'm working here.

[1351] You know, I'm providing my family with a better situation.

[1352] But as a man, a managing government, managing a country, to me, it just doesn't make sense that you would allow open borders.

[1353] Well, I don't think it's totally open.

[1354] I mean, it's difficult to get over here.

[1355] They risk their lives.

[1356] It's very tough.

[1357] And I know what you're saying, but I also think that politically, it's, if you want democratic votes, the more lenient you are towards people coming across this, border, the more lenient you are towards illegals, Latinos, giving them rights, giving them education, giving them the ability to drive cars or maybe even possibly vote, that's going to be very advantageous if you're a Democrat.

[1358] If you're a liberal and if that's what your agenda is, that's what you're trying to pursue.

[1359] It's interesting in Republican circles, Cubans are almost all Republican.

[1360] I mean, there's a massive, not all, obviously, but like Miami has a large population of very conservative Latinos.

[1361] It's a completely different sort of environment, very Republican, very conservative.

[1362] It's a completely different setup than they have with Latinos or Mexicans in L .A. And a lot of it is to do with what they've experienced in Cuba and, you know, how the hardships that they encountered in a communist land and coming over to America and realizing the opportunities and what you can accomplish here.

[1363] And what's going on with Americans and Mexico, the disparity between California and Mexico is so vast and the distance is so small that it creates its really weird environment where, like, I was in San Diego a couple weeks ago and I was joking around about how nice everybody is in San Diego.

[1364] One of the reasons why they're so nice is because you can walk to a third world country.

[1365] Like, they know how good they got it.

[1366] If you want to get confused, you want to think that, hey, man, the world's all shit.

[1367] No, no, no, no, no. You're in fucking San Diego, dude.

[1368] This is awesome.

[1369] Let's go for a walk.

[1370] You and I are going to walk.

[1371] It'll take us about an hour.

[1372] We'll be in Tijuana.

[1373] And then you're going to see something that's not good.

[1374] You're going to see this is what happens when you don't have taxes and the United States government and the school system that we have.

[1375] This is what these people are trying to escape.

[1376] And as a human being, when I go there and I see that environment, I want to, I want to, you know, say, hey, they should be able to do whatever the fuck they want.

[1377] They should be able to come over here.

[1378] But they also should be able to figure out how to, someone should.

[1379] engineer that society better.

[1380] Someone should figure out how to make that culture at least as accessible or as advantageous as the American culture.

[1381] I don't know.

[1382] Right.

[1383] And I think that's where I'm talking worse is they should be doing that rather than just saying, well, if you can't have it there, come here and do it here then.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] For the individuals.

[1386] Because you can't in Mexico as an individual.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] I'm doing exactly what they're doing.

[1389] I would as well.

[1390] I'm working and I'm doing whatever I can to provide for my family.

[1391] And we know and interact, you know, there in Reno, I know an interact with a lot of people that within some of the churches and stuff where it's like they've come here to better their lives and you can't hold them you can't it's hard to look at them and say well yeah but you broke the law so you got to go back right can't do that no because you want as a whole you want people to have what i have you want people to be able to succeed it just sucks that their country doesn't see that you know it hasn't done that but does that mean that our country has to be have liberal open policy or relatively open policies where they're like if you don't have it there come here we'll give it to you but do we still they don't really say that though i mean you do have to go through the border and it's fucking hard it's not easy to get from mexico probably not as hard as it used to be really yeah i don't know i mean i'm a guy that spends a lot of time in the wild i could probably i could i'm not going to say that i could get across the border but kids well you women women and children and people are getting across they're getting across and it's got to be hard it's got to be difficult and difficult and some of the stuff that some of those kids you know have gone through that is devastating it's just it's disgusting you wouldn't want to ever have to have your family have to go through that process also we're a nation of immigrants this whole nation was started by people who came from someone they didn't like and decided to try to make a better world here and at what point does that get closed off at who who is that available to ever close it off you don't ever close it off I don't think but it's hard for people to come from Mexico to like legally immigrate to America it's very difficult they make it hard and you have to have some reason why they should have you here if you're a scholar and you're coming from Norway, it takes time.

[1392] You know, you have to go through all sorts of checkpoints.

[1393] There's a lot of things have to happen.

[1394] I've had friends from Canada that wanted to get green cards to work in America.

[1395] And, you know, white people that speak perfect English that are well -educated and it's hard.

[1396] It's not that easy to get a green card.

[1397] I'm just glad that I produce outdoor television and I don't have to deal with it.

[1398] I don't have to do it, you know, or manage it or that kind of thing.

[1399] Obviously, we all deal with it in wherever we live in that.

[1400] But it's also, it's weird when you've got half the population's illegal.

[1401] What do you say?

[1402] You want to make half the people criminals?

[1403] I can't.

[1404] There should be some sort of a way that they could, you know, contribute as well because a lot of them are not paying taxes.

[1405] Well, so it's even, it's more advantageous to make them citizens.

[1406] Didn't Reagan do that for, for how many million, nine million or something?

[1407] They said, okay, amnesty.

[1408] Everybody that's here, yeah, I believe they did.

[1409] Reagan, I thought it was Reagan.

[1410] I'm not a bad idea.

[1411] Again, I'm just going on what I heard off the radio.

[1412] You know, I'm just the uneducated white hunter guy.

[1413] You know, blah, but it's like, you know, they did that one time, and now it's built up where there's almost no way around it that they're going to have to do it again.

[1414] And unless there's stop measures to keep it from happening again, it's going to be 20, 30 years down the road, it'll happen again.

[1415] It's a compassion issue in a lot of ways because when people are in an undeniably shitty environment like, you know, Juarez, Mexico, and they want to get out and they see San Antonio is right over there and everybody's doing the same thing.

[1416] I would do the same thing.

[1417] Yeah, it's the real issue is like, why are borders there?

[1418] Why are nations there?

[1419] It gets real tricky.

[1420] It's a very complex issue.

[1421] I'm going to keep hunting.

[1422] I'm just going to keep doing what I do.

[1423] I'm not even going to try a podcast.

[1424] I'm just going to do what I do.

[1425] When you're on top of a mountain with just a camera and a rifle, how many cameras do you take when you go do that?

[1426] You know, I used to take several.

[1427] Now I just take one main camera, which I use a DSLR camera that will take stills and video, and then I have one GoPro.

[1428] That's it?

[1429] Any more I find that I don't use the GoPro, hardly ever.

[1430] The main reason I'm using the GoPro now is because, because I had so many people calling BS on me. They're like, there's no way you're filming that.

[1431] You've got a cameraman, whatever.

[1432] I'm like, I'll show you.

[1433] So I mounted a thing off the back of my camera, my main camera, that is just basically a stick that I have a GoPro on.

[1434] So you can see me. I mean, there's an instance in one of the episodes that was on this year where you see me, like fumbling, I have to take a lens off.

[1435] I put another one on.

[1436] I spin the camera in the GoPro.

[1437] You can see the elk coming up.

[1438] Then you see me reach up, focusing it, turning it, clipping out of the bow, and then shooting it.

[1439] you know like everything happens just that fast and it's like there take that stick in your ear you know i filmed this all myself and but it's it's become kind of a personal challenge that way where it's like yeah it can be done and and it adds more of a challenge to the hunt and to me it's it's in a case like that i didn't get nervous about making the shot on the elk i just drew back i didn't even range it drew back naturally just boom and the same thing happened with a deer that year same thing drew back boom because my brain was on the cameras my mind was on what I had to do with the cameras to get everything right and so hunt mode was natural because I'm a natural hunter I grew up as a hunter from the time I was a kid so that that motion just took over whereas if the cameras weren't there and I'm just thinking and I have time to watch that elk come up and I'm clipping on and I'm like okay where am I going to shoot him and I'm trying to arrange him and get a distance you're trying to do all these things that you're supposed to do as a hunter and then it's in your head that that you've got to do all this and so when you anchor back your mind might not be right you might be nervous I might be shaking because there's been times where I mean, elk's coming in and I'm literally just shaking whether it's an elk or a deer and I'm just physically just I can't control it.

[1440] So jacked up with the dynamo.

[1441] Yeah, because it's like it's almost like a fear, adrenaline, holy crap, this is happening, whatever.

[1442] I mean, I remember as a kid sitting in a tree stand for elk and the guys that taught me how to bow hunt, I was 13 years old and they're like, yeah, the best way, just go get in this stand and just wait for the elk to come into the waterhole.

[1443] Well, shoot, I'm a 13 -year -old kid up there by myself and you hear this, herd of elk coming in so you have 50 you know 800 to a thousand pound animals coming in screaming chasing each other and and just you just freeze and i could i was shaking so bad that that platform on the stand was like and i was like hold it together man hold it together man you know and it's like that's what you get when an animal comes in and i i don't know what what gives you that adrenaline rush is it the fact that you know you can kill it i don't think so i think it's just the fact that this wild animal is getting close, you know, something.

[1444] Anticipation.

[1445] There's so many factors.

[1446] Same thing when you go, you know, you're getting off the ski lift and you, you know, you strap on the snowboard and you know you're going to go off this one run that you just looked at as you're coming up the hill.

[1447] You're like, I'm going down that.

[1448] And then you get there and you're like, holy crap, this is scary, man. I don't know if I want to do this or not.

[1449] But it's that feeling.

[1450] The elk thing is more so even.

[1451] I get more out of it because that's more me. You know, I get more of a thrill out of elk.

[1452] And it's, you know, hunting and golf, that's kind of my two things outside of family.

[1453] And it's like, I get excited over that.

[1454] You know, you hit just a killer iron and you're just watching that thing fall and it's just kind of cutting into there.

[1455] And you're like, you get that feeling a little bit, that could go in the hole, you know, or that's going to get close.

[1456] That's kind of the same thing.

[1457] But with hunting, it's like that much more amplified because it's a live thing.

[1458] You know, it's a live event.

[1459] And you don't have any control of that.

[1460] That elk could come in and do whatever.

[1461] Yeah, anticipation and build up for one moment.

[1462] and also the amount of work involved in getting up there and it's like all for this one moment ready don't fuck it up don't fuck it up but what people don't see too is on tv you know i posted a comment on on instagram there was like you know for you guys's information hunting's not as easy as it looks on social media and on television you know which to me is a simple comment but people like oh that's so true blah blah blah blah blah it's like well i might be on the mountain for nine days not seeing an animal like on that moose hunt i saw one moose before i shot my moose so you're there for 10 12 days not seeing anything all of a sudden there's a moose bang whoa crap that just happened you know it's like wow so that's hunting that's reality of it whereas on tv you see six eight minutes of me traveling and I was oh dang he killed a moose that's awesome you know that moose show was wild the one where you shot the moose and then it started floating down the river yeah he wasn't in the rip but yeah he was just he was just he was in the marsh so where he was standing it was like knee deep and then he kind of went back in the willows and so i had to actually go in the willows and pull him out because the boat we tied him onto the boat and tried to get the boat to pull him out but it wasn't happening so i had to go in and filled my waiters i'm just tugging on it when it's on the video i put the GoPro on my head and i'm just i had to just basically just leverage and get this moose broke out of the willows to where the water was deep enough where to float and i don't know how i did it physically i don't how much is it way oh that's a 12 -400 pound animal that's a big big damn 1400 pounds i don't how I did it.

[1463] It had to have been adrenaline because the moment we got him and tethered to the boat and floated over the sandbar, people don't realize.

[1464] I was closer to death right then than any other hunt that I've ever been on.

[1465] I was so hypothermic that I had to get off the boat and I literally just took all my clothes off and just piled on one dry coat that I had and a pair of pants.

[1466] And I ran up and down the sand bar back and forth because it started out like kind of hunched over little trudge and it took me about 40 minutes before I generated enough body heat to get myself out of that hyperthermic state because I was so I was so cold because I was so excited about the moose that I just jumped in and I'm like yeah look at my moose whatever my waiters filled up everything and you're in water that's you know just comes off with the glaciers up there probably 34 35 degree water maybe maybe a little warmer I don't know I didn't have a thermometer but it's damn cold so it just got me so close to the point where my body was starting to just really get crazy and I was not thinking right the only thing that I could think of because everything was so wet was just to run and so I just ran up and down the sand just back and forth and you're by yourself no I had Ted that one guy in that one guy yeah wow that's scary as fuck man hypothermia kills a lot of people it's a lot of folks don't know it's a slow killer yeah you get to the point that's why I tell people I'm like it's a lot easier to stay warm than to get warm so if you start to feel a chill put a coat on you know don't get yourself wet the other thing about hard hiking too when you're hoofing up the mountains is you start sweating That's why wool is so important.

[1467] People don't, many people who don't go into those environments and don't understand, like, how you can start sweating when it's really cold out, don't know how great wool is.

[1468] Yeah, wool's awesome.

[1469] Amazing.

[1470] There's some great synthetics out there, too, that wick the moisture away from your body.

[1471] Like wool, same way?

[1472] Well, I like, you know, I grew up as a wool guy.

[1473] Everything was all wool, wool, wool, wool.

[1474] Well, a lot of synthetics, they'll pull it away from your body, and then they'll dry fast.

[1475] Really?

[1476] Wool's going to pull it away from your body.

[1477] And the cool thing about wool is, even when it's wet, it's going to keep you warm, but it doesn't dry real fast.

[1478] Whereas the synthetics will pull it away, but then they'll dry fast, too.

[1479] Why is it dry faster?

[1480] It's just the fiber, just the fabric.

[1481] I don't think it holds the moisture as well, but it pulls it away.

[1482] It's like a more closed off moisture.

[1483] Yeah, wool is still amazing because if you can't get dry, wool is still going to keep you warm.

[1484] Yeah, isn't that crazy?

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] But it's heavy and bulky.

[1487] I don't know.

[1488] There's some good stuff.

[1489] You guys mentioned first light.

[1490] That's some amazing stuff.

[1491] You know, I've grown to wear probably about 10 years ago.

[1492] I moved away from wool and into synthetics just because the technology was there.

[1493] It started getting better.

[1494] Because it's lighter?

[1495] Yeah.

[1496] Now I'm with Under Armour, so it's, you know, obviously.

[1497] And Under Armour?

[1498] But even them, they've got some clothing that we prototyped this last fall that was a kind of a wool acrylic blend.

[1499] It was pretty amazing, pretty good stuff.

[1500] Really?

[1501] A wool acrylic blend?

[1502] Is it lighter?

[1503] Yeah, it's not necessarily, it's similar texture and feel to the wool, but, you You know, you combine that with some of the synthetic base layers and that.

[1504] And you've just got a really hardy, durable fabric that can be, you know, replicated and printed on and all kinds of different things.

[1505] But that's a consideration that you have to really plan out, right?

[1506] Like, how much weight you're carrying?

[1507] Like, how much stuff do you actually need?

[1508] You take what you need and that's it.

[1509] I mean, there's no reason to take any comforts.

[1510] I mean, that's one of the things that I probably.

[1511] should be better at like i hate sleeping on the ground when i when i hunt i'm miserable like at night i basically just roll from one side of the next one side of the next because i can't sleep because i'm like i'm not taking that two pound pad i'm going to take a take the 16 ounce pad instead you know thinking one pound well it's like you know and i've got seven pounds around my stomach that i that i'm carrying around that i shouldn't be carrying around either right but we all get so caught up into the weight that you know you you kind of neglect certain things and that's important when you're going on a backcountry pack trip where you're going to be in several days and that weight weight's a big deal because when you start hiking up a mountain you're just thinking i mean i know i do i'm thinking in my mind what can i have left out of my pack you know what could have made this trip lighter because if you don't have a pack it's a lot easier to get up the mountain but you got to be comfortable or you're going to hike your butt back off the mountain do you wear like a lightweight boot too i do i'm a light i'm super lightweight boot all the time even in rugged country i like a really lightweight boot i've never i'm the kind of guy i've never sprained an ankle never never had any knee or any ankle issues i've had knee issues but that really doesn't have anything to do with the boot but it's like i like lightweight i like maneuverability and just i feel more feel more mobile i don't like the big heavy rock mountain boots you know and i've worn them a lot and lot but they're just rigid and i just feel like my legs get tired and i just can't move but when i have a light boot that's more like a sneaker i don't think my legs get as tired and i can just yeah that's what i'm thinking because i'm going um uh hunting in alaska the first week of october and uh i had these uh these heavy sneeze yeah good boot big heavy boots they're really they're excellent waterproof and everything like that but man i i went hiking with them recently trying to break them in i'm like my fucking legs get tired try dry and leather when it's raining a bunch too i mean it's hard but that that that boot is made for that environment that's the type of boot that's made for that you know there's some synthetics out there too that might dry a little easier in that but I've always been one where it's like you know I just I don't have issues with blisters you know I don't I just I'm just lucky that way I haven't never had to deal with that when I wear a pair of my lightweight you know underarmers my speed freaks or whatever it's like I I wore them I'm in my half way through my second season on one pair of boots which typically I go through a pair of boots easy in a season but this lightweight pair of speed freaks I've had it in the snow, you know, the shale.

[1512] Those Under Armour Speedfrey?

[1513] These ones are prototypes.

[1514] I don't know if it's the actual Speed Freak.

[1515] It's a prototype boot they sent me last year.

[1516] Oh, it's like a new product.

[1517] That's kind of be cool.

[1518] That's awesome.

[1519] That's one cool thing about, you know, I've been knocking on Under Armour's door for three or four years.

[1520] And last year, I was fed up.

[1521] I was like, you know what?

[1522] These guys are never going to give me the time of day.

[1523] They're cool guys and everything, but they're looking for bigger fish.

[1524] And so this is probably the first time they've heard that, too, is like I got rid of all my under armor gear and uh was decked out with another brand they decked me out everything head to toe everything so i was like i was all geared up to go on my first hunt in this other brand and uh then something just hit me my wife's like where did you get all that camel on i i told her the story and she's like what about under armor and i go i can't give up on under armor can i and she's like you were going to give up on under armor so i went to i was leaving for my hunt i went to shields and i bought a pair of pants and a shirt under armor pair of pants and a shirt.

[1525] I went on my hunt.

[1526] I killed this deer.

[1527] While I was driving back, Kobe gave me a call and said, hey, things have developed.

[1528] We've got some stuff freed up.

[1529] We'd really love to have you guys on board.

[1530] So it's like, holy crap, I just about threw underarm away, you know?

[1531] Just from that, but as a TV guy, it's like you want to have the best brands.

[1532] You want to wear the best gear and everything.

[1533] But on the second part of it is you've got to pay the bills.

[1534] You got to make it worth your while to do it because at the end of the day, I'm not doing it because I'm a passionate hunter.

[1535] I'm doing it because I'm a businessman.

[1536] I want to make a pile of money, you know?

[1537] And it just how happens to be a sport that I love and I'm passionate about, and that's going to help me be a better business person.

[1538] A lot of people don't know that Under Armour does hunting gear.

[1539] They're huge in the hunting world.

[1540] People think of them as terms of other athletics.

[1541] Yeah, they're just kidding.

[1542] We just announced the coming soon of their new Ridge Reaper, Barren camel pattern.

[1543] Remy and I, and there's like six or eight of us nationwide that had these prototype clothing and that wore this camel pattern.

[1544] Cameron's got it as well.

[1545] and they just announced that it's going to be releasing I heard September 15th one of the dates was thrown out but they're going to be coming out with that at Underarmor .com the Ridge Reaper line with the barren camo pattern pretty sweet.

[1546] Do you ever go out and realize that you fucked up you should have brought more shit?

[1547] Always.

[1548] Really?

[1549] No, yeah, yeah, that's happened.

[1550] And it's also gone the other way too where I've gone there and I'm like, why did I bring this?

[1551] Mostly camera stuff.

[1552] I mean, I pack around this five pound 11 ,000 millimeter or whatever, 1100 millimeter lens the weighs like six pounds i packed that sucker everywhere and i never use it it's like why am i packing that thing and my spot and scope and all this it's like is there anything that you like when like if you haven't brought it with you like if you gone out there and go god why didn't i bring this is there anything like dangerous about that have you ever taken if you ever like taken a trip and not having enough clothing or not having enough yeah um survival shit i always have survival stuff with me i carry a survival medic it's It's just a little super lightweight first aid kit, but it has survival tools with it too.

[1553] You know, so I have that in every, I've got one in every backpack I use that's just there.

[1554] Like start fires and thankfully I rarely have to use it, you know.

[1555] And if I do use it, it's just more just for fun to start a fire or something.

[1556] But it's there if I do need it.

[1557] I don't know when I've run into a situation where it's like, man, I wished I would have had this or that.

[1558] Because it's such a unique style of hunting.

[1559] So few people do that way where you go, Completely on your own.

[1560] Well, and I grew up hunting with nothing.

[1561] You know, I had a bow with piece of crap arrows, and it was the cheapest thing we could find, and I hunted with that same boat.

[1562] The bow that I bought when I was 14 was the first, I think I'd been 15.

[1563] I bought that bow.

[1564] I hunted with that until I was, until I got into TV until 2004.

[1565] Was it a compound?

[1566] Compound bow, barely.

[1567] It was a P .S .E. Polaris, that I bought that bow.

[1568] It was like $109 or something.

[1569] 100 feet per second?

[1570] I don't know.

[1571] Maybe.

[1572] Who knows?

[1573] But I hunted with that thing and then I got back, you know, out of college.

[1574] I was hunting with that thing.

[1575] And I got, I hunted with that clear tell 2004 before I got a Matthews bow.

[1576] And I'm like, holy cow, there's a, there's a 12 years, you know, 15 years span of time there that I hunted with a piece of crap.

[1577] And so I think that by me learning to get by with so little that it makes it easier for me when I do have good equipment.

[1578] I can appreciate it that much more.

[1579] And it's like I can get by with just a good, just good equipment.

[1580] The world of hunting bows.

[1581] I don't have to have gizmos and gadgets.

[1582] Right.

[1583] compound bows is that's the one world where 10 years makes a giant leap whereas like with rifles 10 years ago it's a rifle you know I mean scopes are a little better but rifles essentially are rifle bullets or bullets but the the bows of 10 years ago in comparison to the bows are today I mean they're making these little incremental leaps like every year where they're getting a little bit lighter a little bit more feet per second a little bit more accurate a little bit better tolerance it's really kind of kind of interesting to see the technology that's involved in compound bowls, both for target shooting and for hunting.

[1584] Yeah.

[1585] And it's interesting, the bow company that I deal with with G5 and Prime is like, G5 is an engineering firm.

[1586] You know, they're an engineering company.

[1587] So if anybody's going to know how to make something better and get the most out of a piece of iron, it's an engineering company, is somebody that has that background.

[1588] So that's what's really cool about them.

[1589] And these companies are smart.

[1590] They're not just going to just blow their wad on all their technology all at once.

[1591] They're going to incrementally bring it out.

[1592] they can have a new bow every year.

[1593] And that seems to be like the craze right now is every, every bow manufacturer has one or two new bows every year.

[1594] And it's like, man, how do you keep up with that?

[1595] Right.

[1596] How do you keep up with technology?

[1597] But as a hunter, I'm kind of addicted to that.

[1598] It's like, yeah, I like this bow.

[1599] But in October, as soon as that new prototype bow comes out, I want it in my hand, you know, because we're addicted to that new, bigger, better, batter, just like the iPhone 6.

[1600] You know, Mark was telling me about that.

[1601] And I'm like, you were mocking the iPhone 4?

[1602] Yeah, I got an iPhone 4, you know?

[1603] You have it for like forever.

[1604] With a crazy lens attachment that you put on your, I've seen that too.

[1605] You put it on a spot and scope and you can film it, right?

[1606] What is that called?

[1607] This is a phone scope adapter and I've just gotten used to having it on my phone.

[1608] Every once in all I'll take my phone out and put it back in my lifeproof case, but then I reach in my pocket and I'm like, where's my handle?

[1609] I'm missing my handle.

[1610] But this is just an adapter.

[1611] It goes onto a bayonet mount sleeve so I can slide it over my spotting scope or.

[1612] And you can zoom in, you can video.

[1613] Yeah, take pictures and what's going to.

[1614] cool as you shoot a little video clip or take a photo and bam you post it to instagram wham you're done and that kind of stuff that's pretty cool so you take a photo from straight from the spotting scope exactly yeah wow yeah digoscoping with it and i just leave it in the case because you know my phone i just like having that handle it's just kind of convenient yeah i love it because when i take it off i'm like missing it and it's not that i i don't use this phone scope other than what i'm hunting so it's like when you were talking for folks i don't know what you're saying you were you were talking about ranging these laser range finders are another really cool invention where you look into it you press a button it tells you the exact yardage and for people have never been hunting with bows before i never shot a bow before they don't understand that like there's a big difference between a scope on a rifle a rifle's pretty good for a couple hundred yards but a bow there's a big difference between where it's going to hit at 20 yards versus where it's going to hit at 40 yards and all this is sort of crazy calculations on feet per second and where your yardage pins are and it's a i that was one thing that i really got into when i started uh playing with bows was how how much you have to learn like develop a site tape and you know and and and and arrange things out and figure out like citing in your bow and making sure everything's tuned up and there's there's so so many weird adjustments that you have to make between 20 and 50 yards and how did it?

[1615] difficult it is to shoot something in 50 yards.

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] Just a target.

[1618] You don't have a steady rest or a bipod like you do with a rifle.

[1619] I mean, the bow, you've got your arm that's not very rigid to begin with, holding it out there.

[1620] And you've got your other arm back here, and so you're trying to anchor it.

[1621] And no magnification either.

[1622] No, you can't, there's some magnification scopes out there, you know, that you can put on there one or two power, six power, whatever.

[1623] Do you use those?

[1624] I don't.

[1625] I'm so old school when it comes to my equipment.

[1626] I mean, it's just like I'll take a bow.

[1627] When I set up all my own equipment, I don't take it into the archery shops because everybody has their own way of doing things.

[1628] But I do it the way I learned, but I'll just put a peep, site, you know, side it in.

[1629] Guys are all wrapped into these super long -range sites.

[1630] Well, I'm a hunter, so I need a site that's going to go from 20 to 80, you know, and I'm good.

[1631] I don't need 120, 150.

[1632] So you mean, these rolling single -pin sites?

[1633] Yeah, it may be fun to shoot that far, but I don't.

[1634] If I want to shoot that far, I go get my M -O -A rifle and I shoot that far, you know?

[1635] It's like...

[1636] Well, you know, I learned from Cameron.

[1637] And Cameron does all of his hunting with bows and arrows.

[1638] And Cameron Haynes uses a spot hog.

[1639] Who?

[1640] Never heard of her.

[1641] Cameron Haynes?

[1642] You keep doing that same joke.

[1643] You're going to have to let that go.

[1644] We're almost done here.

[1645] That's like my joke.

[1646] But do you use a multi -pin site?

[1647] Yeah.

[1648] I do.

[1649] For the longest time, I just use a single pin site.

[1650] But once I started really filming my bow hunts real heavily, it just became too much to have to adjust the pin.

[1651] So I just went to the multiple pin sites again so that I don't have any adjustment.

[1652] the bow i can focus on adjusting the camera when you said that you just sighted in the animal you didn't even cite it in you just just looked at it and you just took an estimate is that something that just comes over time like you look at something go that's about 30 yards until i was 25 years old i didn't use sites it was all instinctive so every time i would shoot a bow it was fingers and it was bare bow instinctive even though it was compound everything was instinctive and so i think it just ingrains into you if you're a traditional shooter whatever when you draw back you're like Like your body, just like shooting a pistol, you know, your body automatically gets into that position.

[1653] And more times than not, if you'll draw back and get in that position and then look at your pins, you're there.

[1654] I mean, you're, if you've done it a lot and you're conditioned to that.

[1655] And I think that's where your instincts kind of take over.

[1656] And in those cases, I drew back and you just look at your pin, verify, bam, you know, and you go.

[1657] So you're still aiming, but because you're not thinking about it, it's happening so much quicker.

[1658] They say that that's, you know, what some of the sharpshooters, that's why they're so good is because it's just all instinctive.

[1659] with pistols or anything else they're not aiming they're just shooting there's a lot of practice involved in bow hunting too right i i've had a boat i started bow hunting as at 12 13 years old you know i have i've had a bow in my hand my entire life basically um just because of my upbringing i'd go out to do chores you grab your bow off the freezer you walk out fling a couple arrows at the carpet target that we had taped onto the haystack and you go milked cows you walk out you pull your arrows you do it again it's it's life for me growing up that way i shoot less now just because of the busyness of life and the other other responsibilities i have but it's still it's still part of it and it's natural so for a guy picking it up for you to go out and and be able to experience that instinctive anchoring and everything is just dialed it's going to come over time you know and there'll be times where you might go out next week and you're like man i know what he's talking about that feels good and then the next day you're going to be like what the hell am i doing wrong this just isn't working and that's archery that's that's nature your bow your your your wrist is going to tweak things are going to change from day to day so don't feel like you have to adjust your bow every time you go out and shoot just be like yep today i was pulling them left you know today i'm dropping them out no big deal tomorrow be a different you know well that's the cool thing about archery is how difficult it is that it's so it's so involved that it sort of takes away all the other things in your life away it takes away all the other things you're thinking about all the other distractions in your mind you're so concentrating on putting that pin holding it steady making sure you release no added movement no no twitching no pulling and it's i find it like almost like meditative in that way that when i do it i it cleans my mind out i love doing it at the end of the day i have a busy day i go out my yard i you know pull out some targets and and start shooting and i feel like it's a nice stress reliever too even if people never want to hunt i recommend uh do just doing archery just for fun and get a bow and do it instinctively you should get a recurve or get a bear bow and just go out and just do it close you know 10 feet and just get that feeling of just release do you think that helps your it helps it'll help your i believe so because i grew up that i mean that's that's how i did it and and you know to this day i think it's made me a better shooter in a hunting situation it's tricky to hunt with a bow because more animals get wounded and escape bow hunting than probably any other style i don't know yeah i don't know what the statistics i mean there's a lot of a lot of deer get hammered by a rifle too and walk away it's hard i'm sure It's hard to say.

[1660] There's just that many more rifle hunters out there.

[1661] Bowes are tough because hemorrhaging is lethal.

[1662] You know, hemorrhaging is, I mean, you can shoot.

[1663] I shot a bear in the ankle one time, you know, in the wrist, bled out within 80 yards.

[1664] You know, hemorrhaging is super lethal, whereas a bullet doesn't necessarily have to give you hemorrhaging.

[1665] It can give you puncture and impact and shock and trauma, but it doesn't necessarily hemorrhage.

[1666] Not the same way because of the heat and everything gets cauterized.

[1667] Yeah, it could be.

[1668] So I don't know.

[1669] I can't say for sure.

[1670] Yeah, I just had a, I felt I had a massive responsibility to put in a lot of practice forever, went bow hunting.

[1671] I mean, it was, I fucked my shoulder up because I was shooting 150 hours, arrows a day.

[1672] Don't pull the Cameron, Cameron Haynes, is it?

[1673] Don't pull the Cameron Haynes and shoot a 90 -pound bow.

[1674] Shoot a 70 -pound bow.

[1675] All you need is 70.

[1676] Is that all you need?

[1677] I had a 70.

[1678] All you need is 40, 45, you know?

[1679] But do you, because what if you hit a bone and then the animal runs away?

[1680] Cameron has this philosophy about, well, he's.

[1681] He has his philosophy, you know, and that's great.

[1682] And it works for him, sweet.

[1683] And I, yeah, it's awesome.

[1684] Ted Nugent has the 45 -pound philosophy.

[1685] He's got whatever he's got.

[1686] Ted Nugent's got his.

[1687] What do you shoot, a 70?

[1688] I shoot mine at like 63 pounds or something.

[1689] Yeah.

[1690] I mean, I'm a strong guy.

[1691] I can pull 70, 80 pounds, sure.

[1692] But you choose to do the other one just because it's more convenient.

[1693] I'm more accurate.

[1694] I found that with my arrows and my broadheads and my setup, I take my bow and I max it a 70 pounds.

[1695] And as I'm siding in and tuning my bow, paper tuning or whatever, I back it off a quarter turn at a time my limbs so you're taking the weight down and i found that that 63 to 65 range for me and my setup i'm getting bullets yeah cameron's like does all this crazy workouts just so he could pull it effortlessly yeah that's awesome but he's into like shooting water buffaloes and shit and oh yeah yeah pass -throughs on giant elks well that's his whole deal uh listen man we're out of time sweet that was three hours it's good because i got to take a leak i bet you do go take it you This is great, man. Solar Hunter, Solo Hunter TV on Twitter.

[1696] What's your Instagram?

[1697] At Solo Hunter TV on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

[1698] Everything, the whole deal.

[1699] Yeah.

[1700] Tim Burnett.

[1701] Thank you very much, brother.

[1702] Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

[1703] It was really enjoyable.

[1704] And watch the show.

[1705] It's on the outdoor channel.

[1706] It's called Solo Hunter.

[1707] It's one of my favorite hunting shows.

[1708] It's a really enjoyable show.

[1709] Even if you don't like hunting, it's very, very well done.

[1710] Thank you to our sponsors.

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[1718] Ting?

[1719] Ting.

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[1726] We will be back ladies and gentlemen.

[1727] Next week I got Rupert Sheldrake, Graham Hancock and others.

[1728] Until then enjoy your weekend.

[1729] See you at the ice house and big kiss.