#208 - "Freeway" Rick Ross

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] Ladies and gentlemen, we're going into the rabbit hole today.

[4] There's going to be an interesting one.

[5] There's going to be a weird one.

[6] We have here former aspiring tennis star.

[7] Is that true?

[8] Really?

[9] You were aspiring tennis star?

[10] Was it expiring tennis star, yeah.

[11] This is a man who eventually went on to become probably the most famous drug dealer in the history of Los Angeles.

[12] I would say that's as accurate as you can get.

[13] Yeah, yeah.

[14] You're the most, I mean, you're not the United States.

[15] Yeah, if not the United States.

[16] Not the biggest.

[17] It's right up there, though.

[18] The most famous, but the most famous, yeah.

[19] You got a dude stole your fucking name.

[20] No, no, no, no, like three people stole my name for sure.

[21] Three people.

[22] Yeah, three people.

[23] Three rappers or three different drug dealers?

[24] Rappers, let me see.

[25] We know the guy who's probably the most famous.

[26] all of them is William Roberts who goes by Rick Ross and he's the rapper that is a former corrections officer correctional officer how hilarious is that and they say he's the best gangster rapper ever better than Pock and Biggie that's nonsense then we got my man who's cool who I'm cool with you know and I don't mind him using parts of my name it's freeway out of Philly and we also have it was a freeway rich out of Kansas City that they're pretty good in the Midwest there are also some guys right now out of Ohio who go by the name of the freeway boys so that's four different groups that have taken my name and are my you know parts of my persona and used it with one of them got very famous though very famous right now yeah that's fascinating and you know what's really it's kind of weird it's kind of weird too you know to I'm sure about his name and identity and claim it as your own on in their background what's hilarious i'm gonna i'm gonna send brian a link of where uh he talked about it he had he'd come on this dude show and uh the guy asked him about it and uh his his reasoning response was so stupid it's it's amazing the guy is successful as successful as he is because he was like you know no no no that happened like 10 years ago i got that nickname i wasn't even about that like the fucking answer is that yeah that shit doesn't even mean when you know you know that the dude exists you know i know okay i'm a white stand -up comedian i know who freeway rickie ross is you don't know and you're a fucking corrections officer who became a rapper and you're in that world and you don't know who rick ross is and you just happen to have his fucking name well you know the guy the guy one thing i got to get a guy is he's powerful he doesn't put some moves together now yeah that he's getting courts and everybody to do what he wants him to do so whatever he's doing he's damn good at it i mean you know to have the judge to rule uh in in his favorite other day was like really really ironic to me i could not believe that somebody could say that if somebody steal something from you no matter how long it is that it takes you before you catch them and can can bring them uh to the jurid dixon's uh attention how would they say that the statute of limitations it ran out that was just so crazy to me how do you have a statute of limitations on your name.

[27] That's what I was saying.

[28] I mean, if somebody steals something from you I mean, it takes you 10 years to catch him with it and you catch him with it.

[29] It has all the makings on it that it's yours.

[30] How could you not be made to give it back?

[31] You know what I'm saying?

[32] You said, oh, well, he had 10 years old now it's he is.

[33] Well, what's really crazy is that it's in the most I mean, the world of rap is supposed to be the most legitimate world ever.

[34] Like, you can't get caught with any bullshit.

[35] You can't get caught fake at anything.

[36] If you could call faking anything, people will turn on you.

[37] Then you should be like that.

[38] It used to be like that.

[39] If you bit a lyric.

[40] Yeah.

[41] If you bit somebody's rhyme or lyric and you were done.

[42] You know, remember Nelly Vannelly.

[43] I mean, those guys last.

[44] Millie Vannelly.

[45] Millie Vannelly.

[46] Yeah, yeah.

[47] Well, those guys weren't really rappers, though.

[48] You know, but I mean, Rick Ross is like.

[49] But it was still doing the time of genuine, real.

[50] Yes.

[51] And now I think that the time has changed so much that it's not about real anymore.

[52] it's about faking it, you know.

[53] Well, it's once someone gets popular enough that they bypass the underground hardcore fans and they make it into the mainstream and then they become a part of pop culture.

[54] Like this, every day I'm hustling, that just got into the mainstream culture.

[55] Because the words in between that, they're not good.

[56] No. He's not a good rapper.

[57] It's that every damn hustling is just so good.

[58] You know, when you hear that in a club, be like damn that's good you know it's just such a good hook that that made him I mean that's where it all took off on exactly and it you don't and then you have universal behind you pushing yeah you know they start pushing stuff down our kids throat you know and next thing you know they're taking it that's fascinating so he's got your name now so now it's legal that he's got your name well why wouldn't he use his own fucking name well Rick Ross is it just a name you know I mean it's not like star child beyond the grave you know what I mean you don't have like some crazy fucking name you know what's his name his real name uh william roberts what's what's wrong with bill roberts i don't know how about bill roberts i'm ready to wrap it rick ross i mean if it was ross sounds like a guy who sells your real estate you you'd be like on one of those uh those billboards that they have on the bus stops you know rick ross i mean smile on your face if my mom would name me william roberts my name would be william roberts yeah yeah you'd be freeway will Roberts exactly what's wrong with that well you know hey man we can't hear you in the background this ain't on a microphone even even that uh every day i'm hustling is something that i used to say he got that out of a book that uh gary red world called dark alliance and you know i was telling gary that you i'm hustling every day so he took that and turned into a song so i mean you know i don't know what it is with this guy you know he tattooed my name on his hand That's so strange That's so strange It's a little weird And he used to be a corrections officer Which is really fucked up Because to become a corrections officer They're gonna do a background check on you Oh man They're gonna make sure you're not a felon Squeaky clean Yeah you can't You can't be this gangster dude And be a fucking guy Who is a corrections officer We should get his application And read what it says What it takes to be a correctional officer All the criteria Yeah How about the pictures of him with the outfit on you've seen that shit's ridiculous I saw it with the smooth face well it's really fucked up is there's a video of him an old video of him and you're on the video you're on the beginning of it and then he comes on like he knew who the fuck you were he put you in his video right yeah but he said he didn't know who I was under oath too how do you not bring that video in and just stick that in his face and it should be case closed well the judge didn't want to see that whoa so is the judge just getting bribed It must be.

[59] I mean, you know.

[60] It has to be.

[61] It looks funny to me. How can you, how could you, that has to be bribery.

[62] 100%.

[63] That judge should be in jail.

[64] There's no, there's no doubt about it.

[65] That's your fucking name, man. That's your fucking name.

[66] I mean, and let this guy come in court and say that he never heard of me, you know.

[67] That's hilarious.

[68] And how he invented the name, you know, it was like, wow.

[69] You know, he gave us some elaborate story.

[70] Well, he invented, when I heard him on this video, it was so stupid.

[71] It was like, no, the name came about like 10 years ago.

[72] Like, what does that mean?

[73] It was like a non -answer to the question And he was just And then he tried to like beat past it The question Just talk about how people Just like to talk a lot of shit And start a lot of shit And I'm like what Yeah, he likes a bolow He likes a bolow people You know when he come in And you know Like either you're gonna do the interview Or you ain't gonna do the interview I ain't gonna talk about this You know I'm gonna talk about what I want to talk about Oh I see So he doesn't just come in And just have a conversation with you He comes in like with a specific set of rules Exactly I think most of his views are rehearsed and written down, you know, the way, I mean, the way they seem like to me, you know, I mean, everything about this guy, you know, is suspect.

[74] You know, when I was in jail, somebody wrote me a letter and said, hey, his beard is fake.

[75] What?

[76] Could you imagine?

[77] You catch a backstage, glue in black cotton balls on his face.

[78] Yeah, this chick wrote me and said, oh, his beard is fake, too.

[79] I mean, you know, it's just so much stuff, you know, you hear and people, you know, shooting your messages and, and, in all.

[80] kind of stuff like that there man matter of fact a couple weeks ago i get a call and it was a guy that was in jail while he was a correctional officer you should hear the story you hear the story this guy had to say what do you have to say what do you say oh man he said this guy was one of the worst ceos that you could be you know he was one that see a ceo really doesn't have power he has to go to his boss and tell his boss on you so he said that this guy was running around the cell sneaking trying to hear what they're talking about and if they're shooting dice he'd run up and tell his boss hey down they're shooting dice boss let's go get him yeah yeah yeah that's the kind of guy they're using for and then like when they do raids you know when they raid your sale he would be the first one they push in you know the big the big fat guy you know because everybody'd be kind of scared of the big fat guy so they would all get behind him and shove him up in the cell so all this big blob of me that's coming at you know so he was their battering ramp Jane.

[81] Oh, that's hilarious.

[82] Wow.

[83] It's so fucked up that that guy got legitimate, that all of a sudden he's a legit rap star.

[84] Man. It's fascinating.

[85] It's fascinating how that snuck by, you know?

[86] Well, you know, our people just let him slide him on in there on us, you know, and slowly and slowly he was accepted, you know.

[87] It seems like that can't last.

[88] It seems like, you know, rappers have a short shelf life anyway.

[89] A lot of them, I mean, there's dudes like Jay Z and Nas that.

[90] will just stick around just because they're so talented you can't stop them but a lot of rappers they come for a little while and then they kind of think this is this is going to take wind out of his sale eventually well i don't know you know when when those people put the labels put that money behind you and and you become their money cow you know they have a sense of of just shoving you down everybody's throat you know keeping you on the radio right and anything people hear on the radio you know they believe it right once they can get money out of you they know they keep getting money out of you so they just use you as a cow.

[91] They just use you as a cow.

[92] So they keep milking you and keep milking you.

[93] And it's going to be up to the people to say, you know what, we don't care how many times you shove this guy in our face.

[94] We're not buying.

[95] Yeah.

[96] You know, we know he's a correctional officer.

[97] We know he never sold drugs.

[98] You know, he's a fake.

[99] And we know he stole, he stole Rick Ross's name.

[100] And he's got your name tattooed on his body.

[101] And we want to give it back.

[102] You know what I'm saying?

[103] That's what the streets need to tell him.

[104] You know, give him back his fucking name.

[105] Yeah, give him back his fucking name, bitch.

[106] If it makes me feel any better, he was on a TV show and he left his hat there and our friend Tom Segura stole his hat and he wears it every, every day.

[107] Tommy.

[108] Oh, that's hilarious.

[109] That's beautiful.

[110] Yeah, Tommy was excited, though, that I'm going to talk to you.

[111] He's a stand -up comedian, good friend of mine.

[112] Now, your story is you were an aspiring tennis star, and then you went on to make somewhere in the neighborhood roughly of like $600 million from selling crack in Los Angeles.

[113] Yeah.

[114] In like two years I did that.

[115] That was my last two years.

[116] I don't know.

[117] Before that, I made a lot of money.

[118] Before those two years.

[119] What's really crazy is that this all has a connection not just to Los Angeles, but to Ronald Reagan and Oliver North and the Contras in Nicaragua.

[120] This is what a lot of people don't know.

[121] There's crazy conspiracy theories of people always talking about, oh, man, the CIA sells drugs, and then, you know, Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone, and we never landed on the moon.

[122] And when you talk about conspiracies, people go, what the fuck are you talking about?

[123] You crazy asshole?

[124] You really believe the CIA sold drugs?

[125] Well, the fucking, yeah, they did.

[126] Not only did they sell drugs, Michael Rupert exposed it when the CIA director tried to come to Watts and have this big meaning to try to prove.

[127] I remember that.

[128] Yeah.

[129] Michael Rupert's a bad motherfucker.

[130] I started on Nightline.

[131] I mean, even in their own investigation, though, the CIA admitted that they knew about it.

[132] That their operatives were selling drugs.

[133] Now, they didn't report it.

[134] To fund the Contras because the Congress had cut off funding.

[135] Absolutely.

[136] So they needed money to fund the Contra's war against the Sandinistas who were backed by the Russians.

[137] Right.

[138] And this was during the Cold War, and they were supposedly worried that the Russians were going to take over Nicaragos of the, that was that the idea?

[139] Well, that was what they feared.

[140] You know, I read a couple books on it after I found out after the story broke.

[141] I wanted to know more about what I was involved in.

[142] and what they feared is that the santa nistas basically rush at gate of santa nisa is like a hundred million dollars and congress had cut off all monies to the contras so they had to figure out a way to to raise this money to defeat this army that had a hundred million dollars you know back then i guess a hundred million dollars probably would be equivalent to a billion dollars right now today so they were looking for ways to to to raise this money so what they decided decided to do it with sell weapons to iran convert that money back to nicaragua to these guys and these guys could take that money and going by drugs that way it wouldn't leave a paper trail back to the u .s and that's basically what they did and that's what got exposed with the uh the oliver north trial and that's when ronald regan had to get on tv and said he couldn't remember yeah he couldn't remember whether or not they sold arms to people who hate us and then you know two in the carry investigations they told them to stop right at the drugs when they started to go into the part about the trafficking in the cocaine they had it stopped the hearings why did they have the hearing stopped right then i don't know just too too inflammatory yeah i guess so i guess so my uh documentary is going to explore that my uh producing director for my documentary was sitting there in in the senate hearings so he's bringing all those tapes and they we're going to put this documentary going to come out this documentary should be how to in like November of next year, we're hoping.

[143] Now, did you find out about this connection between the countries and the San Deneas and all this while you were in jail?

[144] Yes, I was in jail.

[145] It was in 96.

[146] So you had no idea about the CIA connection.

[147] No, I didn't care, man. I was just trying to make money.

[148] You know, I was a kid in South Central, and I was illiterate.

[149] I couldn't read, couldn't write, and I found out that, you know, my tennis career was basically over because I couldn't go to college.

[150] There was no way I was going to college.

[151] So where were you playing tennis?

[152] seen like tournaments and stuff yeah i played tournaments southern california tournaments and you know when you play those tournaments you don't have to turn in your report card you know you just go out and play they don't ask you that i also played high school tennis and uh i had dreams of going to college and playing college tennis and all that was derailed uh you know when it was discovered that i couldn't read the right wow so how did you get through schools you couldn't read it right they just passed you yeah man you know teachers they don't really care about if you get in your education or not for sure at that time and by me being a good student I guess they just kind of like felt they were doing me a favor by just letting me get through but being a good student how can you be a good student if you can't read it right why didn't cause me any problems I see what you're saying so you were just dealing with a wild bunch of kids and you were a nice guy right sit in my seat you know probably go to sleep in class most of the time you know.

[153] Wow.

[154] And don't cause a teacher no problems.

[155] You know, if it was time for me to read, I would go to the principal office, get my swats for being bad in class that day, and, you know, the next day I'd come back and go back to sleep.

[156] Wow.

[157] Isn't amazing that the standards are so low that all you have to do to be a good student is not be crazy and a problem?

[158] Exactly.

[159] You don't have to participate at all.

[160] That's amazing.

[161] And I never really participated in class.

[162] You know, none that I can remember.

[163] Well, I've always said that the number one problem with this country, for sure is that we don't care about other people's kids.

[164] We don't care about how other people's kids are growing up.

[165] We don't care.

[166] If it's not your kid, that's illiterate if not, it's not your kid that's growing up without a father.

[167] It's not your kid who's growing up in poverty, doesn't know where their next meal is.

[168] You don't give a fuck.

[169] But meanwhile, you give a fuck about what's happening in another part of the world, you know, freedom of Afghanistan and all this nutty shit that went on in Iraq.

[170] Our real war is with our own people that we have to live with, our own national community.

[171] And our national community has six spots, and these six spots are the ghettos and it's real simple if you're you're you get an unlucky roll of the dice and you're born in that six spot well guess what you're fucked you're fucked you're fucked you got to figure out a way out of that somehow or another but the odds are long against you long against you and that's a real travesty it is we as human beings concentrate on some shit that's going on another part of the world that's not even connected to us and we don't concentrate on people that we're gonna fucking come in contact with and spending billions spending more than that trillions and we're not concentrating on the people that we're really going to come in contact with the people that are going to grow up and be a problem with everybody they interact with because their life is fucked from the get -go and be a problem for your kids yeah you know just imagine you know in a few years your kid is walking down the street and he run into one of these kids that exactly that didn't get it you know and you get robbed your situation is so crazy it's so hard to wrap your head around you know that you you were involved you were like a part of this gigantic machine and you didn't even know about it you just were you just were trying to sell crack they gave me a way some money they gave me a way out you know uh you look at how did it start how did i start selling yeah oh man i was sitting on my porch one day and i was so broke and one of my big homies called me he said man i got the new thing i said huh he said man come over here right now so i jumped in my car at an old sixty six chivalay i threw a dollar worth of gas in and then i drove to his house that might be my last dollar right wow I'm like wow I put my last dollar in the tank I'm through now so when I get to his house he uh he laid it out you know it was cocaine you know and he was like man this is the new thing and I saw the movie superfly and I'm like wow superfly that's me you know not always wanted when I saw superfly man I saw superfly man I I just love that movie.

[172] You know, when I...

[173] It's hilarious now.

[174] You try watching it now?

[175] It's kind of hilarious.

[176] Yeah, yeah.

[177] I might have to do that.

[178] You know, when I finally bought my first VCR, you know?

[179] Just the way they're dressed, the way they talk.

[180] Yeah.

[181] He goes, my hall, my vines.

[182] He goes, this is all I ever wanted in life.

[183] My hall, my vines, a white woman like you.

[184] And, you know, my hall.

[185] Like, that's what they used to call their car.

[186] My vines was his clothes, you know?

[187] It's like the nicknames were hilarious, the ones that didn't stick.

[188] I haven't watched that since.

[189] Like 82 or something, man. Wow.

[190] But when I bought my first VCR, man, that was the first one I had.

[191] I threw it right up in there.

[192] Whoop.

[193] Wow.

[194] Okay, so you go over your friend's house.

[195] He's got it all.

[196] Now, this is crack or this is not, just cocaine or crack?

[197] It's powder, right, but he's cooking it in the rock at that time.

[198] Now, who taught everybody to cook it?

[199] How the fuck did that come about?

[200] Because that to me is a massive mystery that someone figured out how to take cocaine and turn into a more addictive easier mystery.

[201] It was already guys cooking it when I started, right?

[202] But it was only a few of them.

[203] But it was freebase is different than crack, right?

[204] Yeah, freebase.

[205] Like Richard Pryor had a free base problem.

[206] But it's still the same product.

[207] They were cooking, but they were just taking Coke and cooking it?

[208] How were they doing it?

[209] Yeah, you cooked it with ether.

[210] Oh.

[211] Which was a much more difficult process.

[212] But it's still the same product, technically.

[213] The only difference is that with free base, I mean, with what they call crack, because we didn't call it crack.

[214] We call it Ready Rock.

[215] Ready Rock.

[216] Yeah, we call it Ready Rock.

[217] The difference is with Ready Rock is you use baking soda.

[218] Now, what I did is, in my neighborhood, there's three guys that could cook it.

[219] These guys were very expensive.

[220] Very, very expensive to cook it.

[221] So what I did is once I learned how to cook it from these guys, because I kept watching them do it over and over and over again, and they keep charging me for to cook three grams, they might charge you $175.

[222] So I keep paying it was it how was three to three grams cost us like what is it when you sell in three grams Back then three grams would have been about nine hundred dollars so out of nine hundred dollars you pay him 175 bucks That's pretty pricey it was it was pricey but what they did it took them 10 minutes 15 minutes you know yeah being you think getting the coke is the hard part That's a really hard part but then you got to cook it up so you know that was another part but once I learned how to do it what I did is I just start showing all my little friends how to do it You know, so that became like a job for them.

[223] They could just cook and make, you know, what other guys were charging 175.

[224] They could charge $1 .25 and, you know, and just sold the market up.

[225] But it's weird that Coke is expensive, but crack is not.

[226] Mm -mm.

[227] Not true.

[228] That's a misconception.

[229] It is a misconception.

[230] Big misconception.

[231] Crack is expensive?

[232] There is no crack without Coke.

[233] Right.

[234] So if you took a Kia Coke and you cooked it in the crack, the price don't drop.

[235] So what what is the benefit the price goes up the price goes up you make more money?

[236] Do you need less to get high?

[237] Is that what it is?

[238] No, no, no It it don't really have anything to do with the high.

[239] See if you spend 40 ,000 for a key of powder You still got to get at least 40 ,000 for the key of cooked right but people think that it's cheaper There's some misconception that they have put in people mind that that rock is cheaper.

[240] No, no no no no no it's still the same key of cocaine you still have to get your money back out of it if you spend 40 ,000 you still got to sell that rock for 40 ,000 so what is the benefit of turning into rock then they can smoke it yeah is that better it's a better high they say in then then smoking powder is it uh do you need less of it to get high that way uh no is that so it's so there's no benefit financially going the way of crack or post of coke if you're trying to get fucked up.

[241] If you take powder and put on their pipe, it's going to burn different.

[242] So it turns the pipe all black and gooey.

[243] But Rock, it took all the impurities out of the Coke.

[244] So now you're just smoking pure cocaine, and they like that better.

[245] And that's what the bacon soda comes in?

[246] That's what the bacon soda did.

[247] And that pulls the impurities out?

[248] Is that it works?

[249] Right.

[250] It cooked all the impurities out of it and turned it into a jail.

[251] Now, you meet this guy, you go over his house, he's got the Coke, and you know, you decide, all right, this is it.

[252] This is what I'm going to do.

[253] I'm going to be super fly now.

[254] Did a light bulb go off in your head?

[255] Now, I didn't believe him, man. Really?

[256] He showed me something was about the size of one of those little match heads and told me it was worth $50.

[257] And this is my boy, too, though, you know?

[258] It's my boy, right?

[259] If it had been somebody else, I wouldn't even touch it.

[260] But this was my boy telling me this.

[261] He said, man, that's worth $50.

[262] I'm like, wow.

[263] Come on, Mike, stop it.

[264] I mean, $50, man. The police would never catch me with that.

[265] You know, I'm talking about something so small.

[266] You could barely see it.

[267] You know, I could put it in my fingernails.

[268] Right.

[269] And he's telling me that's worth $50, and I just spent my last dollar on gas.

[270] And now he's telling me that this little thing is worth $50, so I can make my money back what's $40.

[271] And he gave it to me. He'll take it and go.

[272] Wow.

[273] So, you know, I go and I'm going around and trying to figure out was it really coke, you know.

[274] So I'm going to everybody in action and action.

[275] and nobody really knew what it was.

[276] What year was this?

[277] 79, into 79, beginning to 80.

[278] Now, in the 80s, for people who don't know, I was living in Boston at the time, and I remember when Crack hit, and it was like a wave of a crime just took over.

[279] It was weird.

[280] It was like a real noticeable increase in crime once Crack had become a part of the culture.

[281] Well, you know what?

[282] When people start smoking cocaine, they're going to do whatever they can to keep that eye going, you know, big, steel, barrow, you know, I mean, it was something about it where they said it was so joyful that you never wanted to stop.

[283] Wow.

[284] Some guys just say it was the best sensation that they'd ever have before.

[285] And you never fucked with it.

[286] I tried it about one week, maybe a week and a half.

[287] A whole week?

[288] Yeah.

[289] Was this in the, what point in the beginning?

[290] In the beginning, yeah, in the beginning, I caught myself early.

[291] I went through a phase where, you know, we thought we had came up on some money.

[292] And then, you know, I thought I was rich.

[293] I had about $10 ,000.

[294] And then all my friends were like, man, come on, let's smoke something in weed.

[295] Wow.

[296] And the good thing, though, I had never smoked weed before in my life.

[297] That's a good thing?

[298] It was at that time, yeah.

[299] Yeah, so that probably would help save me from becoming an addict.

[300] So that you weren't used to smoking things?

[301] Right, I wasn't used to smoking.

[302] I was a tennis player.

[303] Right, right, right.

[304] You were healthy.

[305] I was healthy.

[306] So when I started smoking, you know, started putting the lacing it in the weed and smoking.

[307] And I looked up, my money was like, wow, man, you had 10 ,000.

[308] You're down to like 500 now.

[309] Wow.

[310] Yeah.

[311] That quick.

[312] That quick.

[313] It was going quick.

[314] How did you stop?

[315] Was it hard?

[316] No, no, I just quit.

[317] I said, man, this ain't what you went into the game for.

[318] But was it difficult physically?

[319] Did you have a withdrawal symptoms?

[320] No, withdrawal.

[321] Uh -uh.

[322] No. Well, you have a strong mind.

[323] You probably pulled yourself out of this week, you know?

[324] I think that's all it takes.

[325] I did it for about a week.

[326] I never felt the addiction.

[327] Like, I did the baking soda thing where...

[328] How often did you do it?

[329] For that week, I probably did it twice, three times.

[330] Two times a day?

[331] No, no, no. Three times for the whole week.

[332] Oh, okay.

[333] I mean, I was also doing a lot of cocaine at that point, and I never got, I never liked the crack.

[334] Is it a, some people get addicted, some people don't?

[335] Is it one of those things?

[336] Well, you know, you got to pull yourself and you got to find a reason why you want to quit.

[337] Right.

[338] See, some people, you know, like I got an uncle.

[339] He's been getting high since the day I started.

[340] And you know what he told me?

[341] What?

[342] I don't want to quit.

[343] Wow.

[344] What I'm going to quit for?

[345] We had a friend who was a comedian, who was a heroin addict.

[346] who wound up dying.

[347] Mitch Headberg, very funny guy, really, really funny dude.

[348] And they try to stop him a few times.

[349] It's like, bitch, I ain't stopping shit.

[350] That was his attitude.

[351] He's like, this is me. I like this.

[352] I mean, a person should be allowed to do whatever it is with their life.

[353] Yeah.

[354] As long as they don't hurt anybody else and fringe on your rights that they want to do.

[355] I agree, 100%.

[356] Now, you're sitting there.

[357] How old were you when this happened?

[358] When I started?

[359] 1920.

[360] 1920.

[361] So you're 1920.

[362] You get started in it, and then how do you go about going from that to everything branching out to you being the biggest, most famous guy?

[363] It was, I guess you would say, like an evolution, you know, learning process.

[364] You know, the first time I learned, that first piece of cocaine I got, I got beat out of it.

[365] Another one of my big homies beat me out of it, you know, told me let him test it, let him smoke it.

[366] And, you know, it wasn't big as a matchhead.

[367] So he cut it in half, and he smoked a piece of it.

[368] And he was like, oh, that's the way they used to do.

[369] You know, when they smoke it and smack their lips and taste all right.

[370] I need another piece, though, to make sure it's good.

[371] You don't want to go out there selling nothing ain't right.

[372] Chipped it again, and the whole thing was gone.

[373] There was a little teeny -weeney piece left, and he's like, man, I'm going to go and smoke that, too, and then I'll just pay you Friday.

[374] Pay you Fridays.

[375] Never happened, never, has it?

[376] Hamburger today?

[377] I never got that 50.

[378] never you probably never will those those I'll pay you Friday guys they never they don't so that was my business in the cocaine business so right away you went okay I got to be a little more prudent with my fucking my resources here it started and ended right there right I felt like my career was over because I was I gonna go back to Mike and tell me my man I'm gonna tell my man man I ain't got the $50 man wow I want to re -up but I don't have a 50 but what happened is that guy who beat me out of 50 and he taught me another lesson he come right back that day with somebody that won a hundred dollars see like with with with with with with with people who use if they owe you then they'll come when they'll bring somebody else with him and say oh man this ain't my money this is his money ah that's hilarious so he came back with somebody wanted to buy a hundred dollars worth and uh I called my man I said man I ain't got your 50 but uh somebody else want to buy a hundred dollars if you want it and he shot over there serving that and next thing you know this guy who beat me out of 50 kept bringing person after person after person and next thing I know I'm making $200 a day 300 hours a day but now I'm giving all the money to my man and uh you know one day I was just like man I'm going into business for myself so how did you get a distributor where it started just like that I started off just getting it from him and then I've been talking about going to Venice Skills Center to do upholstery and me and this teacher there that taught the class had become really, really good friends.

[379] We played tennis together.

[380] And I just stopped going around him because I spent all my time selling Coke.

[381] And one day I go down just to see him because this was my man and I hadn't seen him and I said, man, how are you doing?

[382] He's like, where are you being, man?

[383] I was like, man. You don't want to know where I've been.

[384] Right.

[385] So I went on and told him, I was like, man, I've been selling Coke, you know, that's what I'm doing now.

[386] He's like, what?

[387] He's like, all right, my man. Wow.

[388] So he had a whole different attitude than I thought he was going to have.

[389] But, you know, he was fly.

[390] You know, I used to like his little jewelry.

[391] And he drove brand new Cadillac and all that, right?

[392] So he said, man, come by the house.

[393] So I go by the house, man, and he laid it all out.

[394] He's like, man, you think I got this house, this Cadillac, and these clothes, and like this here on a teacher salary?

[395] No way.

[396] He said, man, I travel with the world.

[397] He said, I should sell coke, but I just backed up for a while.

[398] Whoa.

[399] So, it's hard to do that, right?

[400] He had the Nicaraguan connection.

[401] Yeah, you got to be really, really strong to back up without going to prison or getting killed.

[402] It's very few people do, right?

[403] Very few do.

[404] I don't know.

[405] I don't know not one person that just quit on their own.

[406] I don't think without going to prison.

[407] prison.

[408] Wow.

[409] That's amazing.

[410] So this guy gets you the Nicaraguan connection.

[411] Yeah, yeah.

[412] Yeah, he called his guy up, man, and his guy was like, I'm from Nicaragua, you know, spoke broken English and gave me some prices, man, and it was like all love.

[413] I was like, man, I'm going to be rich.

[414] Wow.

[415] So are you familiar with how they got it into the country or at the time?

[416] Did you know how they were getting into the country.

[417] No, I didn't keep, my mind wasn't that big, you know.

[418] Right, you were 20.

[419] I'm 20 years old, never had nothing.

[420] Right.

[421] You know, I hadn't had, I had never had $1 ,000 before I started selling coke.

[422] I don't know if I hadn't ever had $500.

[423] You know what I'm saying?

[424] Right, right, right.

[425] So I'm just thankful that I'm in this position.

[426] I ain't asking no questions.

[427] You know what I'm saying?

[428] I'm like Superfly.

[429] I don't ask no questions.

[430] And long as the man let you be the man, leave it along.

[431] You know, and that's the way I was.

[432] attitude I had I was just just going along with the process wow that's a that's got to be a crazy position to be in man all of a sudden it starts taking off and you see it and then you're just rolling in this money I mean it really is like a movie right did it feel like a movie to you like all of a sudden you go from being broke to just ball it was like a dream you know you you're feeling like you know finally uh God had recognized you know all this time all this time you had been ignored by God and now all of a sudden and, you know, all the things that you had prayed for and hope would happen in your life had just taken place.

[433] Wow, that's a crazy way of put that God had recognized you.

[434] That's how I felt, you know, honest.

[435] You know, I felt that it was a blessing from God that I'd been put in that position.

[436] And now, you know, my family wouldn't have no more hungry nights, and we wouldn't be worried about the lights getting cut off, the gas, and, you know, those roaches and rats weren't going to be running through the house no more because I was going to get some rat traps.

[437] Some rat traps and get rid of them, you know, and we're going to patch some holes up in the cabinets and, you know, all the things that I regretted when I was a kid, you know, standing in line with food stamps or all that was over with.

[438] Did you learn how to read at this time?

[439] No, man, I didn't learn how to read.

[440] I went to prison.

[441] Wow, that's amazing.

[442] That's amazing.

[443] I was forced to learn how to read.

[444] What did you do with the money?

[445] Like, how'd you bank?

[446] Man, I had big safes.

[447] I had safes.

[448] They come out to Queen Mary weigh 2 ,500 pounds.

[449] One time they stole my safe out of my house.

[450] I said, they'll never do that again.

[451] And this dude put me up on these safes that it took like a little train tractor ringing through.

[452] Wow.

[453] They wasn't moving that.

[454] There might be a professional safe move to move them up out your house.

[455] When they stole the safe out of your house, how much was in the safe?

[456] And I think one time they got like maybe $180 ,000, $160 ,000.

[457] Wow, in cash, in a safe.

[458] and you just weren't home or something, they knew when you were leaving?

[459] Yeah, yeah, yeah, they knew.

[460] You probably was an inside job.

[461] You know how that go.

[462] One of your family members, open the door and let them in.

[463] Isn't that crazy?

[464] That's crazy to think about, isn't it?

[465] Yeah, yeah.

[466] So then you got a big giant safe and you kept it all in the same.

[467] You mean you had to be locked down at all times.

[468] If you had that kind of cash around, you're not dealing with banks at all.

[469] Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't go to no bank, man. You know, my mom, she used to take, because I had a couple of properties in my name, and so my mom actually let her go and collect all the rents my Section 8 checks.

[470] And she used to just throw them in the bank because I paid the mortgages and stuff out my dope money.

[471] The banker used to say, tell your son to come in and meet us.

[472] That's funny.

[473] He's doing pretty good in real estate.

[474] Wow, that's hilarious.

[475] So did you come up with a bunch of businesses to sort of mask your money?

[476] Yeah, I had quite a, I had a custom time wheel shop, car wash, shoe store, beauty salon, junkyard, motel, bought a whole theater, and I had apartment buildings all over the place.

[477] I used to build apartment buildings.

[478] That was like one of my hobbies.

[479] Did you have to show how you got the money to buy any of these businesses or starting these businesses?

[480] I figured out how to launder.

[481] You know, people taught me how to launder the money.

[482] Right.

[483] How you go to the bank and you get the cashier's checks and.

[484] you know so so we figured you know we figured it out how to get around it now all this time you couldn't read no that's amazing but so when you went into the banks and fill out the paperwork how did you do that well i would just have somebody else to do it for me you know like if i'm buying a piece of property the real estate agent would do most of the work now i've had times where they told me one thing and it wasn't what it was you know so so those are the chances that you take when you can't read the right wow like one time i had a building that i bought and they told me that the note was going to be 3 ,000 a month and the note turned out to be 6 ,200 a month.

[485] So it cost me like 3 ,200 a month because I couldn't read the contract.

[486] Wow.

[487] So, I mean, it's costly when you don't know how to read.

[488] That's incredible that you accomplish so much without learning how to read.

[489] That's, that's amazing.

[490] Well, you know, what I, what I felt is that I had developed a sense of people, you know, where I could feel good people and bad people, just, just sensing them who to deal with and who not to deal with and you know you make some mistakes but you know overall I think that you know I did all right with some of them so as long as you were making them money everybody was making money everybody was happy yeah yeah you know I paid for Anita Baker's first album too wow seriously wow that's awesome yeah I financed Beverly Glenn music oldie Smith who was the owner of the label rest in peace he used to take care of me when I played tennis you don't buy me tennis shoes and rackets And so when I came up, I ran into him one day, and he wasn't doing all that well.

[491] So, you know, return the favor.

[492] Oh, wow, that's beautiful.

[493] But he got his tenfold, you know.

[494] Yeah.

[495] And they said you get a ten -four.

[496] He used to buy me a tennis shoes in Iraq because I get him $600 ,000.

[497] Wow.

[498] So, you know, sometimes you do a good deed.

[499] They come back to you.

[500] It might be, you know, took, well, oh, wee, 10, 15 years.

[501] So how did it all come apart?

[502] Man, it was coming apart from the beginning.

[503] right away it was just crazy yeah what wind up happening is you know they created this task force called a freeway task force yeah that was these group of officers just to go after you yeah because you were freeway rickie ross yeah yeah they said that uh my name was ringing so much downtown and city hall had a special meeting wow they said who is this guy in south central making all this money that everybody in south because what i found out is when i found out is when i got arrested is that not the people who wasn't really telling on me right to get me in trouble they was bragging about me yeah homeboy Rick he he's millionaire he got this he got that he's run the whole hood you know so this is creating a hysteria downtown and they're like well who is this guy why is everybody talking about him and what I found out these guys are in jail talking about me too you know like they sitting in holding tanks and and they having conversations about freeway Rick and so the guards are hearing this and they're going to report it and so now everybody wants to know know who is this guy imagine if it was Rick Ross the fake Rick Ross he was hearing about the real Rick Ross and it went to report of you imagine we find that shit out hey did you imagine I mean that's a goddamn connection right there we might have fucking found the magic bullet that's hilarious that's hilarious so they hear about you through legend you just you just become now are you aware of how famous you are at this time no I'm in a shell see my guys know but they can't talk about me right you talk about me to your girls and nobody right right tell them what none of my business right right right they ain't in our business they only know our business but it wind up getting past the line you know when you got that line but it jumped over that line and and everybody knew yeah became public and you had no idea I had no idea was You thought you were just like, like a cat hiding under the couch and you think you're hidden, but your tail's poking out?

[504] You know, they think you can't see him.

[505] You're like, bitch, I see you.

[506] Yeah, you're mine.

[507] You're all mine.

[508] And that's what I was living under.

[509] I was living under that illusion that nobody knew who I was because I didn't drive the fancy cars, you know.

[510] I could walk in a restaurant and nobody would spot me. Right, right, right.

[511] They wouldn't be pointing, oh, that's going to wreck over there.

[512] So you kept it low kid.

[513] You stayed in the same house?

[514] uh you know i had houses all over you have a bunch of houses bunch of houses but they wasn't you know i mid -level didn't get you get in mansions nothing crazy right pasadena estates with the giant lawns and fountains and shit none of that right yeah you not nothing like that it's not worth it but what else i found out though is that see my guys have become so big in their own rights is if they mention your name one time to their little workers and then their workers run out oh man the homie rick took care of us and these guys' words were so powerful that they would only have to mention you one time you know they're like I guess you would call them almost like evangelist and that you keep having these type of guys mention your name and the next thing you know your name is everything this is all what you surmised once you got into prison really sat down all the time in the world to analyze what was going on how long did it last how many years did you sell for eight years eight years so you're 28 when you got arrested yep wow that's crazy so you would live that's a long career for a drug dealer it's huge yeah yeah yeah most of my friends who started you know and got big two years three years and they're gone what kind of car were you driving and try to stay low key man i had a Ford LTD station wagon with the wood grain on the side i had the exact same Oh, wood grade on the side.

[515] And I had the little bird.

[516] Yep.

[517] You know the little funeral home bird.

[518] Wow.

[519] On the side of the windows.

[520] I had in 1988 one of this.

[521] But wait a minute.

[522] The funeral home bird, did you have that on purpose?

[523] You put that on there?

[524] Yeah, it looked like a funeral home car.

[525] Yeah, the police put up on the side of that.

[526] They looked the other way.

[527] Nobody want to look in that car.

[528] That's hilarious.

[529] So it was almost like a hearse.

[530] Yeah.

[531] How many people you know want to look in the funeral home car?

[532] That's brilliant.

[533] That's fucking brilliant.

[534] So you were driving around in a scam car.

[535] Wow.

[536] I knew if the police started to pull that thing over, the movie was in there.

[537] That's hilarious.

[538] But you must have looked at Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

[539] God damn, I could just go buy one of those, man. Oh, my guys had them.

[540] You know, if I want to go out in a Ferrari, I just call one of my guys, man. I want to use your Ferrari tonight.

[541] Oh, that's cool.

[542] You're a vet, you know, without the headaches.

[543] Right, right.

[544] I ain't got to put it up.

[545] I ain't got to.

[546] How did you get so smart?

[547] That's amazing.

[548] It just started coming, you know, just little by little.

[549] something say no no wear no jury because you wear a jury everybody gonna know you sell drugs right right right I didn't want my mama to know I sold drugs what did you tell your mom you were doing I didn't you know she when she found out I had all that money man she one day because my spot is is like my spot was like two two or three miles from my house so what I would do is I would go to the spot work and every time I get like 2 ,000 I'd run to the house and put it up and run back to the track Because you don't want to be standing out on the track with too much money because the police come over.

[550] Man, when you get $3 ,000?

[551] What are you doing, standing out and all this money?

[552] Right.

[553] Problems.

[554] So what I would do is every time I get a couple thousand dollars, I'd run to the house and put it up.

[555] So my mom see me keep running the house, you know, back and forth, backing for all day all night.

[556] I don't do nothing else.

[557] I ain't got a girlfriend.

[558] I'm single, right?

[559] Right.

[560] This is my love to be out on the track.

[561] I'm doing this 18, 19 hours a day.

[562] Wow.

[563] Sleeping, jumping right back in.

[564] Yeah.

[565] And all the time you're sleeping, you're losing money.

[566] Sometimes I sleep in the car, on the spot, you know?

[567] Wow.

[568] With shit on you?

[569] Just a little bit, though.

[570] You know?

[571] Are you packing a gun or you...

[572] When I got my boy standing out, he's standing back.

[573] Like, except for instance, we stand out on the street and we call the curb servant.

[574] Now, I would be standing out on the curb, and then he would be sitting, like, in somebody's yard with the pistol.

[575] Uh -huh.

[576] So if somebody got at me or something like that, then he would just bus out and start running there.

[577] Right.

[578] So he's from a different very very very.

[579] vantage points.

[580] They don't even seeing him as a party.

[581] They don't even see him as my, like the police.

[582] If the police come and raid, they're going to grab us, standing out on the block, and they're not going to bother him because he's up in somebody's yard.

[583] Right.

[584] So, you know, we had a little crazy system that we had lined up, man. That's brilliant.

[585] So, um, you, you had a spot was like, like, like, on a street corner or somewhere like that, like there was an area that.

[586] 80s and 181st in between Hoover and Vermont.

[587] It was like apartment complexes, you know, a bunch of apartment complexes.

[588] And how do you get a spot?

[589] Like, do other dudes try to move in on your spot because they know that everybody goes there to buy?

[590] Well, at that time, nobody was trying to move in on my spot because nobody really could get the cocaine.

[591] They didn't know how valuable cocaine was.

[592] They didn't really, really I had abandoned the spot when other guys start coming in.

[593] You know, I had gotten so big.

[594] See, I didn't stay out on the streets long because I took all my money and parlayed it back into the game.

[595] So I got big so fast that I was, was able to then start selling these guys three grams and then they would go out and sell it and I was just making like $50, $75 off every three grams that I would sell them and that started to be so much money that I didn't even need to sell 50s and hundreds of more.

[596] So people just became, they became a, you were like the main dude and everybody sold it for you.

[597] Right, right.

[598] So then where did you keep everything?

[599] Did you have like a warehouse?

[600] Like how did you have it set up so you could hide it?

[601] Well, eventually what I did is I set up spot.

[602] like say for instance if you eventually when I got real big I have like $50 spots and if you go to my spot and spend $50 would be like going to somebody else's spot and spend $100 you could do what they call double up you could double your money you buy $50 worth you can make 50 more now if you would go there and you start buying those 50s and you get up to spend in 2000 then the people at that house would take you to another house where you would have to come and spend 2 ,000 then if you got up to buy in 10 ,000 then you would get to go to another house and then we would have a lot of these $50 houses they would be just all over the place and then it would just be a 52 a few $2 ,000 spots and then it would be even less $10 ,000 out of spots and this is all for distributors right this is all for distributing houses you had like a whole tier system right that's brilliant absolutely I didn't know I didn't know exactly what you know what the how they called it at the time but I knew see what I did is I dealt with people the way I wanted to be dealt with I knew the problems that I had when I was coming up so I tried to cut out all their problems for them I didn't want them to have to deal with none of the headaches you know not worrying about how to cook it how to get it at a safe price how to make sure that the place was safe I I took care all that for them when they came to me they knew they was going to get their proper stuff they knew they weren't going to be robbed they knew how they would be able to re -up again everything was was like cookie cutter for them almost wow that's amazing so you're doing this for eight years you said from the beginning it was crazy but when when did you start getting legal problems man my problem starting around 86 how many years in was that six years six years so what was it they started arresting you they started asking where you're getting money from freeway task force man they started to go crazy first they uh they started to raid spots that we didn't even sell drugs at you know they started raided my girlfriend's houses and and planting drugs on you know because i didn't keep drugs at my girlfriend's house because i stayed there you know but those were the easiest spots to figure out you know where that were connected to me you know where people came over because they would let their friends come over like my work spots you didn't come to my work spot less than you sold drugs wasn't no need for you coming over there don't even you know don't even ask what that's that right so they raided my girlfriend's houses and then they would take them to jail for drugs and and stuff like that there so I'm like wow so then they started to get my guys you know they started to catch my guys driving down the street and they're playing drugs on them and it just got really crazy until it got to the point where one night I'm coming from a basketball gym I'm adjust your mic real quick okay makes a big difference yeah all right okay there we go yeah so I'm riding down the street one day and uh my and my guys and we said man look at all the homies over there playing dice so they was at my tire shop so we jump out go by and holly at them you know see who went in the crap game and when we get ready to leave the whole crap game come with me you know like it's 10 11 o 'clock at night so they all want to walk me out to the car make sure everything is good so I jump in the car and pull off and I look in the rear view mirror and it's a car follow me with no lights on so we're going to high -speed chase you know chase for a few minutes through the hood trying to lose them and then I look up cars all around it's coming light's popping on you know what I'm saying I'm like oh man set up so uh I wind up getting out the car jumping out the car leading out the car rolling and jump out and get away well they're shooting at me police bam bam bam bam bam bam put his whizzing across my head and the whole nine yards and uh I get away.

[603] So once I get away, the next morning my lawyer called me and said, man, you had, uh, you had two kilos of cocaine on you that night.

[604] I said, man, I ain't had no cocaine that night.

[605] He said, yeah, they, uh, they said you had two keys of cocaine and you shot at the police.

[606] So, uh, my mom called me, you know, she's crying, oh, the police been by here, braided the house, had everybody outside handcuffed and said they're going to kill you.

[607] Won't you turn yourself in?

[608] So her and my lawyer, you convinced me to turn myself in, and we go in, we fight the case.

[609] I wound up beating it, though, because the drugs were all planted.

[610] How did they prove the drugs were planted?

[611] Man, it was hard.

[612] You know what I'm saying?

[613] I stayed in jail for a while, no bail.

[614] They had me on a million -dollar bill, 1251, where all the property and everything had to be inspected and make sure it wasn't drug proceeds and all that, man. It was crazy going through all that.

[615] But while I was in jail, the cops come down to my cell.

[616] to interrogate me so they put me out to sell take me to the back of the jail you know where they whip people up and stuff and um starting to ask me a bunch of crazy questions about drugs and all this and about my lawyer you know your lawyer should have let you take the deal who know why he think he's going to fight this case you ain't going to win we always get our man so doing this time that they're interviewing me they record and everything and at the end of the the interrogation they tell me you better not tell your lawyer what happened if we find out that you told him we're gonna we gonna take care of you so i don't even tell my lawyer so we get to court the next time we go to court and uh they got the guy on the witness stand he's testifying i said man you know that guy came out there and seen me like two weeks ago and so he thinking that i ain't going to tell my lawyer you never right so my lawyer sprang it on him like man you was at the county jail a couple weeks ago he was like yeah because you know he signed in so he knew he had to say yeah he said you saw my client he said you knew he had a lawyer then you and he's like yeah I knew he had a lawyer now don't you record all the all the conversations when uh when you interview suspects he said yeah I want that tape he said yon I want that tape and so they brought the tape in the tape was all spiced up and cut up and erased and all kind of stuff really so the judge was like man get this case out of here really but what they did is they took it to the feds and had the feds to indict me without the tape you know like that lost the tape you know they never told the feds about the tape so the tape so the feds indict me for that case but then when they do I had hired a private investigator to invest the cops to investigate the cops then we show them here look what we got on them you guys don't want to use them as witnesses that's hilarious what did you get on them Oh, man, we had them beating people, playing drugs.

[617] 150 people got released from prison behind those cops doing what they did.

[618] What a lot of people don't realize is how deep corruption is in some police forces, especially in Los Angeles at a certain point in time, especially like the Rampart District.

[619] Like, people don't even know the story behind.

[620] That was a criminal gang.

[621] Now, do you know, Rampart was a falloff from the Freeway Task Force?

[622] Really?

[623] Yeah.

[624] Freeway Task Force was the beginning of that whole thing.

[625] the freeway task force was the most elite task force in the country just to get you just to get me wow I feel fortunate what's crazy is you're out now is it feel weird to be a free man telling the story how many guys get their own task force they're very few it was like one and a billion you get you get you a little rapper puppet you know yeah he got a freeway task force a rapper puppet you've lived a fucking charmed life you sold 600 million dollars with a coke yet you're out on the street and now I might be fin to get a judge wow you might get a judge yeah what do you mean in this case you know this judge might I don't know which case this Rick Ross case yeah you think you the judge's corrupt I don't know I don't know are you investigating this judge I am yeah yeah yeah I think you should I mean I want to know how she came to her conclusions you know why why did you yeah those are ridiculous conclusions exactly so I want to get to the bottom of it I'm gonna get to the bottom of it you know well have you found anything she probably can't talk about it right is your freemason a little bit a little bit you know he ain't no free mason he ain't no free mason no she he means the judge yeah but they yeah but he's not either supposedly yeah it's supposed to be a free mason or something yeah rapper Rick Ross supposed to be a free man the fake he said that before but you which we call him what the fuck is his name again uh Billy Bob let's call him fat Bill and the rest of show so fat bill is supposed to be a freemason too i don't know he said it on a couple songs or something like that wow okay but i know the masons are not really happy with it oh really that's hilarious they contacted me they're not happy with that at all wow so you you get arrested so eventually how do you how do you wind up getting taken down you got through all this you got through this one case where they try to plant two kilos on you It was a more supplier, Danilo Blandon.

[626] He brings me down.

[627] He brought me down.

[628] Your supplier brought you down.

[629] This was the Nicaraguan guy.

[630] Yeah, he brought me down.

[631] He gave you up.

[632] Gave me up.

[633] And this is...

[634] Delivered me. Oh.

[635] And this is while the Oliver North shit, all that was going down?

[636] Was this before that?

[637] I think it was after that.

[638] It was after that.

[639] Ali had got his pardon.

[640] I need a pardon, too.

[641] Anybody out there, no Obama.

[642] Tell him I'm looking for a pardon of it.

[643] I did my part.

[644] I mean, why should not get a library like Reagan?

[645] That's hilarious.

[646] That's so true, too, right?

[647] If you really find out, if, you know, I mean, people think that this is nonsense, you know, the connection between the CIA and selling drugs has been pretty well documented.

[648] Go look up a case on a guy named Barry Seal.

[649] Barry Seal was a guy out of Mina, Arkansas, who was, by the way, that's Bill Clinton's fucking stomping grounds.

[650] That's where they were dropping Coke.

[651] They were flying Coke in from South America, and they were dropping it off in Mena, Arkansas, and the story goes, two kids see the drop.

[652] They catch the kids and kill them, and then they put the kids on the train tracks and said that the kids fell asleep on train tracks and they were high, and they fell asleep, and they got run over my trains.

[653] So the parents do an autopsy on the bodies, and they find knife wounds.

[654] Wow.

[655] So they find out, no, these kids were murdered.

[656] They go into the story.

[657] Turns out Barry Seals gets busted because it was his plane that was coming in at that time, and then they find out about the Coke, and he gives up all the information.

[658] and they wound up assassinating him when he was on his way to trial.

[659] Well, man, Gary Webb killed itself, shot himself in the head twice.

[660] Twice.

[661] With a shotgun, he shot himself in the head twice with?

[662] I think so.

[663] I haven't started reports, but I think that's what somebody said was a shotgun.

[664] Wow.

[665] Yeah.

[666] How do you shoot yourself in the head twice?

[667] It seems like that's like...

[668] You didn't do the job.

[669] Yeah.

[670] You had a job to do and you didn't finish it.

[671] That doesn't seem to make sense to me. Take care of it.

[672] I've heard it's possible to shoot yourself in the head twice, but, you know, that's also the dude who was the whistleblower for Enron, Shot himself in the head twice.

[673] Oh, yeah?

[674] Yeah.

[675] Not too suspicious, right?

[676] This gigantic multi -billionaire scam goes down.

[677] One motherfucker starts ratting people out and winds up shooting himself in a car twice in the head.

[678] Wow.

[679] Really?

[680] How many people have committed suicide by a gunshot to the head twice?

[681] I mean, I've seen people get knocked out with like a little bitty punch.

[682] And you're telling me you shoot it yourself and you're awake after that?

[683] They had good willpower.

[684] Yeah, I guess.

[685] You make sure the job was done.

[686] Well, I guess if you had any strength left, If you shot yourself in the head and you realize you were still alive, you had any strength left, you would probably shoot yourself again.

[687] You know, he'd be like, what the fuck?

[688] I'm going to just bleed out here in the car.

[689] Americans would buy anything.

[690] Yeah.

[691] So do you think Gary Webb was murdered?

[692] I mean, his book, Dark Alliance, essentially what happened is it started out a bunch of articles written for the San Jose Mercury News and it was later published as a book.

[693] And the three -part series, he investigated the Nicaraguan linked to the CIA -backed Contras, who allegedly so it's like he exposed the whole thing and brought the Reagan administration into light and exposed them for essentially being drug dealers absolutely and Gary was an amazing man I mean you know he's the one who stopped the forfeiture laws you know they used to take your property before you were found guilty of a drug crime and Gary made him stop that and saying hey at least you got to take this kind of trial find out he was selling drugs before you take his property because before they would take your property sell it and then you get kicked out of prison and you never got convicted and they'd be like, oh, well, your car is gone.

[694] Well, what's hilarious is if you look at how the Patriot Act has been used, you know, how many times the Patriot Act has actually been used for terrorism, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction.

[695] Because the Patriot Act classifies drug selling as terrorism.

[696] So the Patriot Act has been used for drug selling thousands of times.

[697] And it's been used for terrorism, like a small handful.

[698] It's kind of cute.

[699] It's kind of cute.

[700] Yeah, they've figured out how to circumvent the system.

[701] Absolutely.

[702] I mean, it's crazy the way, I saw a thing on seeing in the other night, and they were talking about how California has built so many prisons and absolutely no colleges in the past 10 years.

[703] I'm like, I mean, this is what happened to an ounce of prevention?

[704] Yeah.

[705] You know, we're going with pounds and tons of cure, but no prevention.

[706] Well, the worst thing ever happened that could be possible.

[707] they made private prisons they made it profitable for people to put people in jail which is fucking insane the fact I mean that is that's some Orwellian shit that's some that's some shit that should have been taking place it is slavery it is slavery it is slavery it's a hundred percent slavery especially when you have certain government organizations that lobby to keep certain things illegal like drug selling like nonviolent crimes like nonviolent drug offenses when you're you're telling someone that they don't have control of their own consciousness and because you they don't agree with you as to what they can and can't do you're going to lock them in a cage and profit from it that's amazing it's a great business that's somebody fucking amazing though that in 2012 with our all the access to information that we have today that that's still a legal thing i mean it's just another piece of perfect advice or perfect information rather that shows you how corrupt the system is yeah it's it's it's incredible it's incredible when you really stop and think about how many prisoners there are Well, that's good that we got people like you, though, bringing this stuff to light.

[708] I mean, I don't see why more people don't stand up, you know, but I guess people saw what happened to Gary, and they're like, sure.

[709] Yeah, right.

[710] Me, me go out there and put my job on the line and my family and their well -being.

[711] I want to expose shit that's already been exposed.

[712] I come in, like, third, fourth, fifth, sixth.

[713] I'm not the number one guy breaking the news.

[714] So you make sure it's safe.

[715] Shit's already clear.

[716] It's already on the Internet.

[717] By the time I hear about it, I'm like a third -hand reporter.

[718] Somebody finds it on the internet They tweet me I find out about it And then I go with it But I actually found out about you Through Kevin Booth documentary The Great White Hope American Drug War Yeah Kevin's a good guy Kevin You know Kept an eye on me When I was in prison You know Wrote me I could call Kevin He interviewed you from prison as well He did He did When I met with Kevin Kevin Kevin made my life A little easier While I was in prison You know Shout out to Kevin Boof Kevin produced my first DVD my first comedy DVD 1999 You know I sent the book I read the book That he His buddy wrote Bill Hicks Yeah Yeah Kevin's a good guy though Yeah He became I mean Who he is Because of his friendship With Bill Hicks You know He used to follow Bill Hicks Around And record him And Bill Hicks As far as stand -up Comedians are concerned Like one of the Top 10 greatest Comedians of all time For sure You know Right up there With a lot of people Like Richard Breyer Right Even though he didn't live very long, died of pancreatic cancer when he's only in his young 30s.

[719] So he creates this documentary, the American Drug War, and that's how I heard about you.

[720] And that's how I heard about it.

[721] Because I had already heard about Barry Seals, and Barry Seale and his connection with the CIA and selling drugs.

[722] But I didn't know of any one person like you who could be directly connected to the dude that was connected to Nicarago, that was connected to Oliver North.

[723] and the whole chain of events.

[724] Absolutely, absolutely.

[725] I think when Blaninand testified against me, he talked about his boss going on a fishing ship with George Bush, senior.

[726] Wow.

[727] When Barry Seale was murdered, he had George Bush's phone number in his pocket.

[728] Deep.

[729] As deep as it gets.

[730] Might have been a tracking device in that phone number.

[731] I don't know where you at?

[732] And meanwhile, and meanwhile, no one goes.

[733] jail no one on the outside goes to jail yeah nothing no one goes to jail why should they it's amazing they make the laws but how the fuck did they let you out me that work yeah they only you you went in for 20 years i had the life sentence man and how did you get out early learning how to read and write and study the law and finally loophole what was the loophole well what they did is they charged me under the three strike law and what they were saying is that since i had got convicted in all these different states that those added up to three strikes but what they didn't see in the in the law is that in order to get struck out you have to go to prison get out then commit another crime go to prison get out and then commit the third one and that's three strikes so they can't get you on three felonies before you're ever convicted that's not three strikes right it's not three strikes if if safe isn't what I use is is a guy standing out when I used to stand out on the street I used to make hundreds of sales a day right there on that one block so I said now if somebody wanted to they could have gave me a hundred convictions right I sold a different people every time right so I didn't believe that the law meant that every sale you made was a separate conviction I believe that they meant just like I just explained right right right because if so then everybody whoever sold cocaine would have three strikes and it makes sense because the idea is supposed to be theoretically that jail is supposed to be able to rehabilitate you.

[734] Exactly.

[735] So if you are unrehabilitatable, if you've gone through two separate times and you're still out doing the same shit, all right, well this dude's a career criminal.

[736] This is his third offense done.

[737] That makes sense.

[738] And that's how the law was rolled up, even though I don't believe you should play baseball with people's lives.

[739] Right.

[740] Because a person could not be changed at one time and then be changed tomorrow.

[741] And then his circumstances changed and he may be in a different position.

[742] Right.

[743] You know, before you can start passing judgment on people you have to live in their shoes right and you know that's why people ask me now how do I feel about drug dealers and I got nothing to get some right and they do what they feel like they got to do or what they know they got to do so before we pass judgment we have to get all the facts and living that person's shoes to see if we would do the same thing that they did and you're a perfect example of that absolutely now you you're away for you went away for 20 years you find this loophole how deep into your sentence you had already figured out how to read how long i started reading immediately right away yeah yeah took take classes there in prison no i learned i taught my me and my cellie taught me how to read he made me some cue cards with my ABCs on them and i went from from nose to uh reading my indictment to reading the newspapers to uh to reading law books i mean you know for the first time what i found out is that i had never wanted to read before my life that was the real problem i never really wanted to read right i mean i didn't see any reason why jack and jill went up to heel and why I should know.

[744] You know what I'm saying?

[745] They didn't happen.

[746] Right.

[747] They wasn't chasing no money.

[748] I was chasing money.

[749] Right, right, right.

[750] It wasn't interesting to you.

[751] It wasn't interesting to me. But then once you realize, well, there's a lot of information that I don't have access to.

[752] I got to.

[753] I became an advocate reader.

[754] I read over 300 books before I left prison.

[755] Really?

[756] Yeah.

[757] Wow.

[758] You've read more books than I have in my lifetime.

[759] So you're in prison.

[760] You're learning how to read.

[761] At what point in time did you start devising a plan to try to, like, figure out a way to get out of there?

[762] Immediately I was trying to get out.

[763] You know, I knew that the guys that were going home was the guys that was going to the law library, learn how to become lawyers.

[764] You know, they knew how to fight the system.

[765] And then they had, like, guys that all they did all day would sit there and study the law.

[766] You know, they would sit at the table while other people were playing cards and chests and dominoes.

[767] They would be studying the law.

[768] So I got in with those guys.

[769] That's got to be kind of a crazy feeling, man. Everybody's just hoping you can crack this fucking system that's got you locked up.

[770] Owee, it's tough.

[771] When your head starts to hurt daily, you got like migraine headaches.

[772] And you're sitting in this concrete building.

[773] I'm going to try to draw a picture for you.

[774] You're sitting in this concrete building.

[775] It's 28 stories high.

[776] Nothing but concrete and steel.

[777] The windows are about three inches wide, open, and about six feet long escape looks almost impossible but you know you think about that too like if I had a long rope I could scale the side of the building so it's like a desperation you know and you're saying man it got to be one loophole in these books because you know that if you can show them in the book where they made a mistake or where the book says that they should have did this when they did that then you know you got action so you're you're getting headaches just from thinking and reading too much yeah that's all you want to do you just want to stand them books you know i got a life sentence you know when you got a life sentence it's like this is forever you know this is all you're going to see for the rest of your life you know so um i didn't think that was fitting for me it's amazing that they convicted you for life on that three strikes law it seems like you should be able to go after them for abusing the law which should be criminal well you can't you can't you can't go at the federal prosecutor he's immune that's amazing from from from prosecution because he he's not working as an individual even if it's been proven he's corrupt well maybe if you can prove he's he's corrupt but but not because he incompetent unjustly yeah incompetent in your case you know if he does something to you you know you could charge you with a thousand keys even though you only had one you know and if you got a thousand keys you know that gives you a life sentence if you got one you know you get probation but But if it's powder.

[778] That's the thing people don't know about.

[779] That's another good point.

[780] Not crack.

[781] Because crack was in the ghetto and powder was all these, you know, other people, these people that had money were using the powder.

[782] Crack is way more illegal.

[783] Yeah, it was 100 to 1.

[784] Wow.

[785] That's incredible.

[786] Is that racist?

[787] Very racist.

[788] It has to be, right?

[789] And I think, I mean, and even though they just changed it 18 to 1, I think that was still why isn't it one to one and that's what I said because they already proved you know I sat down on the couch with the guy who invented the law really yeah it's going to be in the documentary sick sick sick documentary after you're out you sat down with that yeah I've been doing that since I've been out I've been doing a documentary since I've been out and and and and one of the things that I got mad about even with Obama and and his administration is that they didn't make it one -on -one and then even after they made it 18 -1 they left it for guys that been in 20 years 25 years they didn't make it retroactive meaning that they don't get out they don't get no benefit from the from the 18 to 1 this guys right now if they if they had the 18 to 1 they would walk out of prison today wow so I'm saying if it's wrong today and you did it 20 years ago was wronged in right but they saying oh well they're they lost because you know Clinton signed a bill where you're 2255 you got one year after you're convicted to come up with newly discovered evidence And the law is crazy, man. Like right now, say if you go to prison, unjustly, and you do all your pills and everything.

[790] One year.

[791] You have one year to prove yourself innocent.

[792] Now, after that one year, if you don't find it, and then a day after that one year, you find this newly discovered evidence, you can't even submit it to the court.

[793] Oh, that's got to be maddening.

[794] It's maddening.

[795] They got guys in there that found newly discovered evidence that they can't even submit it.

[796] for anybody to hear it so when you went to jail for this and when you're finally in prison was this the first time you had ever been in prison other than the one time you got arrested and you stayed in there for a while no no that was my second time when i got the life sentence i've been to jail twice so you had two strikes you had one strike already how long did you go away for the first time five and a half years wow so you went in the second time i was entrapped i didn't even go into that part with you i was in trapped because i wasn't selling drugs i was building a youth center because What I did is, is I figured out what kids in the ghetto need to get them out of gangs and drugs.

[797] I know what they need.

[798] So what I did is I bought a theater.

[799] They need some, some instructions.

[800] They need somebody to come and walk them through it.

[801] Somebody that they can go and talk to when they need to talk to them.

[802] You know, not talk to them once they already been corrupted and their heads are already in the game.

[803] They don't want to hear you then.

[804] You know, I already got my mind made up.

[805] I know what I'm doing.

[806] I'm my own man. but before they get like that they need somebody a place that they can go and they could talk to Joe Rogan or Rick Ross or Magic Johnson or Opho Renfrey or some of these other people who could teach them how to make money other ways.

[807] You know because in the ghetto you know the first business you see in the ghetto you know what the first business is?

[808] What?

[809] The drug man. He's going to be the first businessman that you see in South Central Central Sanchez is going to be the drug man and especially a black man as a business owner because we don't we don't own nothing in south central so you when you got so you said you got set up this is the last time yeah yeah when i got the life sentence this guy called me i'm not selling drugs you weren't selling drugs at all how did you stop i hadn't sold drugs in six years seven years what how did you stop i just quit did you quit after you got arrested the first time we did five years no no no i quit a year and a half before i went to prison i was like man Really?

[810] I'm through with this.

[811] I got $8 ,900 ,000 cash.

[812] I got property all over the place.

[813] All I got to do now is make this property and stuff work for me. And, you know, I got enough money to hold me off for a while.

[814] I'm through with it.

[815] So I walked away from the game.

[816] So I'm confused on your timeline here.

[817] Because when you were 20 years old, that's when you started.

[818] And then when you were 28, you got arrested.

[819] But you did five years in jail.

[820] Right.

[821] Where's the five years?

[822] I did the five years in 89 I went to prison How old were you then?

[823] 28 Like 28 and a half You go to jail for five years And then you get out I got out I got out for six months For six months And then they give you the life sentence Right Whoa God damn So the life sentence is a total setup Total set up Entrapment Total entrapment I was not selling drugs Danilo called me And a matter of fact He called me the day I got a prison Whoa.

[824] He was like, man, I need to see you.

[825] I was like, man, I'm kicking it with my mom.

[826] You know, my mom came and seen me and stuff like that.

[827] So I'm like, I'm kicking it with my mom.

[828] I'm cool.

[829] I'll holl at you in a couple days.

[830] So when I finally going to holl at him, he's telling me, oh, man, I got it to this price.

[831] I got it at that price.

[832] I was like, what?

[833] That's a good price.

[834] And all this is recorded, too.

[835] So, you know, that didn't help.

[836] You know, they was like, oh, you were interested.

[837] Wow.

[838] So this went on for six months that he court.

[839] me, you know, calling me, dropping the price, dropping the price.

[840] And then one day he called me and I was riding with one of my little homies, Chico Brown.

[841] And I said, man, that's dude just told me, uh, woo, whoa, whoa.

[842] And Chico's like, man, I can sell all that.

[843] And that's how I got started.

[844] So I wound up making an introduction to the two of them, Chico handing the money, and police come from everywhere.

[845] So you never even got to sell?

[846] No, I never sold it.

[847] So this guy, where is he now?

[848] Danilo he's in Nicaragua just chilling he's supposed to be in a documentary too really you y 'all better check that documentary out it's gonna be dog that's awesome the now there's Danilo and we and we only had a cop that planned the drugs whoa is do you have proof that he planted the drugs I know he plans drugs right but is he went to jail no I don't think he's gonna admit he plans a drug but he went to jail for it he went to jail for planting those drugs for corruption You know, beating people, playing drugs, blind on police reports.

[849] It was a habit.

[850] That's how he was doing it.

[851] Well, I mean, he made money, man. Yeah, well, that's where the rampart comes in.

[852] I mean, for people don't know, most police officers at this point in time believe that Shug Knight hired cops to kill Biggie Smalls.

[853] And that they also, he probably also had Tupac killed and that he did it all under this, under this rampart division.

[854] This rampart division was working for him.

[855] I mean, there's a huge Rolling Stone article about it.

[856] It's fascinating, fascinating shit that the cops were so dirty that the cops were working with gang members.

[857] They're working with murderers, working with criminals, and making money, clearly, profiting.

[858] Well, you know, cops, man, they're just like everybody else.

[859] You know, they lie, cheat, and all other things that the normal person go through in life.

[860] So I don't put nothing past them, especially when you start putting all that money on the table.

[861] You know, I remember my first young guy who got arrested.

[862] buy him and they stole his money he was like 16 years old and uh he called me he was like rick man the cops just raided my house i was like yeah you all right and he's like yeah i'm cool i was like what you have he's like man i had like $40 ,000 i said what happened he said man they asked me who money was and i told me it wasn't mine they told me to go wow so when he got out when i got with him you know we called a lawyer and told a lawyer hey man they was $40 ,000 at that house but wasn't no drugs so he called and they said man with no money at that house wow that's super common right yeah yeah that happened all the time there's no one policing the police there's no one governing the government it's tough you know that's the real issue they got the they got the guns yeah well not only that they can change the laws i mean we see what the fuck is going on now with this country it's like every week they come up with some new even more restrictive even more or well -in law that gets through the the allows them to tap your phones with no wire, with no warrants, rather, you know, listening in on your phone calls, tap your fucking GPS systems.

[863] They can follow everywhere you go.

[864] And they can do all this shit without warrants now.

[865] I mean, and they do it supposedly under the guise of terrorism.

[866] But it's really under the guise of making it easier for them to prosecute you for whatever the fuck they want to, because there's a goddamn business and locking people up in cages.

[867] Exactly, exactly.

[868] So that's what they're into.

[869] So you find your loophole.

[870] And then you chase after it.

[871] You're in jail, right?

[872] And then once you find this loophole...

[873] I remember that day when I read it in the book.

[874] You know, it was like, man, it just like popped out at me. Boom.

[875] Go to jail, commit a crime, and get released.

[876] I shot to the phone and I called my lawyer.

[877] I said, man, I found it.

[878] Wow.

[879] So what happens then?

[880] Well, it was discouraging what he said after he read it.

[881] He didn't see it the same way I did.

[882] Damn, you're a better lawyer than your fucking lawyer.

[883] he graduated from Harvard that's hilarious wow I should get an honorary degree yeah you should get a little something yeah so so I just told him or put it on the books you know then the judge went through her thing oh no mr. Ross it's not the way you said it is and I was like can't she much can't read if she can't read that she can't read so then the prosecutor went through his whole thing but then I went to the night circuit court of appeals and they agreed with me totally you know said it uh if they uh did it the way they were saying do it that they would lock up everybody would be career criminals on their first arrest so yeah literally everybody would be in life here i am here i am a free man so ninth circuit court of appeals they agree with you they side with you uh you released immediately no i now i had nine more years to do man Jesus Christ why nine more years uh that's just where it was you know that's how much time i had left okay so So you had 20 to life?

[884] Because they cut me down.

[885] No, no, I had a life, but they cut me down to 20.

[886] So the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals cut you down to 20?

[887] Mm -hmm.

[888] Okay.

[889] So at least you knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel then.

[890] Right, right.

[891] So then we -I was happy with that.

[892] You were happy with that.

[893] Yeah, I was going to lead a penitentiary because I was up at Lompocke penitentiary, you know, USP Lompop.

[894] And how, what is that place like?

[895] Oh, man, that's a dungeon, you know?

[896] Everybody in there got 40 years or better.

[897] You know, they mad at you up there if you got 20.

[898] You know, they got to get you out of there with 20 years.

[899] you know something might happen to you really man yeah those guys got 20 years is freedom 20 years is you're almost free yeah you got it's amazing you got to walk on eggshells around here if you have 20 you ain't got for 20 years you better go away me here wow that they talked to you they were like mad at you oh they'd be mad at you they're mad at you if you only got 20 years yeah but you got 30 years they might be mad god damn that's hilarious yeah hilarious I mean you can get hurt you can get hurt there just because you got 20 years How did you stay out of danger?

[900] Well, like I said, when I got my time cut, I only had to stay there like three more months, and I was out of there.

[901] So it was easy for me, and, you know, I'm a well -like guy, too, so.

[902] Even in jail?

[903] Yeah, yeah, they liked me. How dangerous was the prison that you were in initially, the first prison before they moved you out?

[904] Oh, man, I saw guys get hit in the head with iron mop ringers.

[905] Iron what?

[906] Mop ringers.

[907] A mop ranger?

[908] You ring the mop out way.

[909] This is this great, big old thing might wear about 15, 20 pounds.

[910] Yeah.

[911] You know, a guy sitting in his chair, and the guy walks up behind him and just smashes his skull with it.

[912] I mean, brutal, brutal, brutal, brutal sight.

[913] I've seen a guy get beat with a baseball bat, aluminum baseball bat, until his head was like mush.

[914] They had the helicopter him out on the helicopter.

[915] I think he had brain damage, though.

[916] He didn't, you know, was a vegetable.

[917] I've seen guys get stabbed, you know, while I'm taking a shower, you know, you hear this loud noise, like, just kept bumping up against the dwarf.

[918] boom boom really violently you know and you know this is somebody's body you know like why would somebody be hitting the wall this hard you know and uh so I I'd wrap my towel up and I look my head out to shine when I see the sky and the sky stabbing him and so to get off the knife he's just throwing his back and head and everything up against the wall trying to get away from the knife so it's really violent I mean prison is really violent you know you have to be careful especially in the USPs you know the USPs but low ones are dangerous too but not as dangerous to the USP because these guys don't have nothing that what is a USP U .S. penitentiary yeah U .S. penitentiary what is the difference well say for instance the FCI you can't have more than 20 years and be at the FCI if you have more than 20 FSI stands for a federal correctional institution that's like a medium okay so if you have more than than 20 years you're going to go to a USP now if you go to a FCI and you got 20 years but you keep getting into trouble fights and you know something maybe you stab somebody then they're going to send you to a USP because they're like okay you go up here these guys can handle stabbing so they'll boost you up then they got what they call a low is for the guys who got like five years six years then you go to a low so they kind of keep it separated like that by your violence by how much you get in trouble things like that so the USP is the most dangerous that's the the most absolutely absolutely murderers life sentences and then they had guys from all over the country say from you in Washington D .C. and you've been getting in trouble in Washington D .C. then they ship you down to California to keep you out of trouble you know some of those guys from D .C. are really really violent and what they do is they take all the badest guys from all over the country and they put them in U .S. SPs so you may have a thing where guys are fighting over territory like the TV.

[919] You know, like the D .C. guys or the Philadelphia guys might say, man, we want to watch this program tonight.

[920] The Philadelphia 76 is a plan.

[921] So we want to watch Philadelphia 76 tonight because you're always watching the Lakers.

[922] So that could cause a fight.

[923] You know, it's kind of like territorial, you know, the way it works.

[924] Did you get into any violent interactions in prison?

[925] No, absolutely not.

[926] Absolutely not.

[927] I stayed in the law, Liberia.

[928] Really?

[929] They don't come into a law, Liberia, and fight.

[930] So how did you, that's how you avoided everything?

[931] Most of the time.

[932] The only time I really would put myself in harm's way is when football season, you know, I played flag football with the guys.

[933] I played basketball with them.

[934] But I always had a mentality to diffuse anything that ever happened.

[935] I wouldn't fight, you know, if somebody filed me hard on the basketball court, it was my fault because I put myself on the basketball court.

[936] If I filed somebody hard on the basketball court, it was my fault.

[937] my fault because I followed him hard.

[938] So I would always apologize to guys when I filed him hard.

[939] But that's just the type of person I am.

[940] You know, when I play basketball, I don't mean to hurt anybody, but sometimes I do.

[941] You know, I filed a lot.

[942] But, you know, I got along well.

[943] You know, people respected me, and I show the utmost respect for everybody.

[944] Did you have to align yourself with any groups in prison?

[945] I didn't.

[946] No, I didn't.

[947] Even though I am adopted by most groups, you know, they had done.

[948] Adopt me. Most groups?

[949] Yeah, most of the groups in jail adopt me, you know.

[950] I mean, everybody, you know, the Philadelphia guys, the Crips, the Bloods, the D .C.'s.

[951] I mean, I'm cool.

[952] I'm just cool without all of them, you know.

[953] The only one probably is not is, is, is, what's the Serenios and the Aaron brothers are probably the only two groups that.

[954] But it's the Serenios Mexicans?

[955] Yeah.

[956] And then the Aryan brothers, obviously, is KKK do.

[957] Yeah, other than that, I got it on.

[958] And even they got it on, you know, they would speak to me, you know.

[959] Hey, Rick, what's happening?

[960] But, you know, we don't hang out.

[961] But they don't hang out with blacks.

[962] Now, the day you got out of jail, man, what the fuck was that like?

[963] The day you get out of 20 years and knowing that you got out, you know, on your old.

[964] By the hair.

[965] By the hair.

[966] You know, it was luck.

[967] Because, you know, it was guys.

[968] When I was in prison, it was guys who had the same issue I had that didn't get out.

[969] Wow.

[970] That argued it almost as something.

[971] same way you know matter of fact we're trying to get the guy who uh was the first guy to get a life sentence for selling crack we're trying to get his interview and his issue was was almost identical to mine just a little different though but close and he's he's in for life he's in for life and he was only like 20 years old 19 years old and it is the same situation they use the three strike rule on him but he had he didn't have three convictions his conviction is a little different right he he did have convictions his was he went to jail when he was 18 years old he got out and the same day he got out he went right back on the block and started selling dope again and he got arrested that day so he wasn't convicted he wasn't convicted of the first one when he caught the second one but they said it don't matter if he was convicted you had been to jail so you should have learned your lesson and you went back out and you did it again there's got to be a lot of that he was mad at me when I one really yeah and he's supposed to be my man too he was mad man how you win i had the same issue i said no yours a little different see i never got out on mine see on mine they took me from from from from from l .a they took me to texas it took me to ohio took me to st louis all before i ever got a released i never got a released now when you got out was the first shit you did ah you already No, man. It's been a long time.

[972] I haven't got me some, man. Did you just old girlfriends?

[973] Yeah, no, no, a new girlfriend.

[974] New girl.

[975] Yeah, a new girl.

[976] Did you know this girl make, like, do girls, like, contact you, like, while you're in prison?

[977] Yeah, yeah, I got a lot of letters.

[978] Because you were famous.

[979] I was famous.

[980] American gangster, magazines.

[981] And they knew you were coming out, too.

[982] As is magazine.

[983] Yeah, they knew I was coming home.

[984] They started to publicize that I had got a date.

[985] Why?

[986] weren't you the first one of the first guys used social like a social marketing website yeah yeah i'm the first prisoner to start a social network freeway enterprise dot com y 'all check it out too right now i'm ranked like 100 000 in the u .s sometimes i go i go as low as 70 000 i'm trying to break down to like 30 000 in the u .s and it's called freewayenterprises .com freeway enterprise dot com and what what is involved in this social network well what i do is i get people an outlet for their music for their videos you know like a lot of the sites now they're charging and put their videos up and I don't they can put their pictures up they can meet friends and share music and share pictures and just different things you know that they do on social networks so I offer those services for them do you have any inside scoop on who killed Biggie man somebody else asked me that they already said the Rolling Stone article they said the Rampart Cops did it I don't have a clue.

[987] You know, I was at USP Lime Park when Biggie got killed.

[988] I mean, I was disappointed that he came back to California.

[989] I thought that was a little crazy, you know, with what had happened to Pock.

[990] You know, I knew that it wasn't safe for him to be out here in California because guys in California are very vengeful.

[991] And when I heard that he was in California, I was like, what was he thinking about?

[992] It's kind of crazy that musicians started killing each other.

[993] You know, isn't that amazing?

[994] Yeah.

[995] I mean, that had never existed.

[996] We were just talking about this.

[997] when we were in Atlanta this weekend that they were the first musicians and artists basically that would start killing each other.

[998] Wow.

[999] Wow.

[1000] Has Tupac contacted you at all?

[1001] No, not recently.

[1002] What are you asking?

[1003] Did Tupac contact him yet?

[1004] No, he hasn't.

[1005] What do you mean?

[1006] Tupac.

[1007] You mean the new hologram?

[1008] No, no. People say Tupac's not dead.

[1009] Nobody says that's not an idiot.

[1010] A lot of people did.

[1011] Like, what's his face just said it the other day?

[1012] A big music executive, I'll tell you one second one yeah there's a photo of him on the autopsy table it's real simple back in the days before they had Photoshop 2 Fox dead JFK yeah there's no doubt about it they they killed that dude so how many people are a part of your freeway enterprise dot com social media I think I got right around 16 to 20 thousand members right now oh that's pretty cool well I'll guarantee you have more today I hope so I need them I need them y 'all sign up help you boy out sign up and also follow him on Twitter it's real freeway Ricky on Twitter and check that out.

[1013] I got 40 ,000 followers on Twitter.

[1014] That's beautiful, man. You messaged me when you only had like eight.

[1015] I remember you mess to be like, how I get more followers, man?

[1016] I'm like, I can't help you.

[1017] I'm trying, man. I'm learning all the social stuff, all the social media, but I know they pay so much attention to...

[1018] Hold, your boy in the backgrounds.

[1019] What are you asking me?

[1020] What's that?

[1021] His car is.

[1022] What did you say?

[1023] His car is park right there.

[1024] His car is park right there.

[1025] Oh, that's fine.

[1026] It's fine.

[1027] Oh, don't worry about it, man. They don't do it.

[1028] This is Pasadena, dude.

[1029] Nobody's ever put out more music after they're dead than Tupac, right?

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] Hologram.

[1032] Yeah, that hologram was creepy.

[1033] You see that shit from Coachella?

[1034] Yeah, I heard about it.

[1035] I didn't see it, but I heard about it.

[1036] It looked like Tupac had been lifting weights.

[1037] Is that right?

[1038] Yeah, they had them all MMA'd out.

[1039] He was yoked.

[1040] He looked like George St. Pierre.

[1041] It was ridiculous.

[1042] Seriously, he had a six -pack.

[1043] It was way more muscular than the regular Tupac.

[1044] It was weird.

[1045] It was like Tupac had just been doing.

[1046] kettlebells and CrossFit and shit, you know.

[1047] I mean, these record labels are getting away with, phew.

[1048] I mean, you know, they don't care who wins the war.

[1049] You know, they got both of them covered, Biggie and Pock.

[1050] Now, record labels nowadays, they're fucked.

[1051] There's really, they have to make a percentage of the artists that are out there performing live, right?

[1052] I mean, how do they make money now?

[1053] Yeah, yeah, they do the 360 deals.

[1054] What does that mean?

[1055] Well, they get a percentage of everything you do.

[1056] You know, if you do a commercial on TV, they get a piece of it.

[1057] If you do a concert, they get a piece of it.

[1058] If you get a tennis show endorsement, they want a piece of it.

[1059] They didn't used to do that.

[1060] No, they didn't.

[1061] They used to just be strictly music.

[1062] And did they always get a piece of the live performance?

[1063] Now they do.

[1064] But they didn't always?

[1065] No, uh -uh.

[1066] Really?

[1067] So this is all post -MP3 world?

[1068] Right, right.

[1069] It used to be the performance used to be all artists' money.

[1070] What is the benefit of having a music company out?

[1071] It seems like with the Internet, it would almost be a hindrance to be involved.

[1072] Marketing.

[1073] Marketing dollars.

[1074] Because, you know, people believe what they see in here.

[1075] But once you get to a point, like, a Jay -Z or someone - But he's already under contract so he can't get out.

[1076] Oh.

[1077] But what I was saying is, if he started his own shit and started helping people, promote themselves.

[1078] Like, he starts promoting people, you could enable people to become famous on their own.

[1079] Yeah, you think Jay -Z wants to help people?

[1080] Why not?

[1081] I mean, I don't know.

[1082] I mean, I think that it sounds logical.

[1083] If someone explained to him how much better his own life would be, if he helps him.

[1084] helped other people's lives and it makes you actually feel better.

[1085] Yeah, he'd probably try it.

[1086] But it's hard to sink that into people's heads.

[1087] Everybody's so fucking competitive.

[1088] Yeah, everybody wants to just get all the money and hog it for themselves.

[1089] And they don't understand that someone else's success does not equal a failure for you.

[1090] It's not like success that was yours and you didn't get it.

[1091] This guy got it.

[1092] It's not like there's only a certain amount of gold out there and like you're telling people where the gold's at and they get and they're like, damn, that could have been my fucking gold.

[1093] No, I mean, someone else's success has nothing to do with you.

[1094] That's a whole new human being.

[1095] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1096] But most people don't want to help nobody.