#1240 - Forrest Galante

[0] All right, here we go.

[1] Five, four, three, two, one.

[2] Yes.

[3] How are you, man?

[4] What's going on?

[5] Joe, I'm stoked, man. I'm really good, really glad to be here.

[6] I'm stoked, too.

[7] Yeah.

[8] Nice to meet you.

[9] You too.

[10] Dude, you were on naked and afraid.

[11] Sure was.

[12] How ridiculous is that?

[13] Sure was.

[14] Dude, it's so, it's so ridiculous.

[15] Like, to say ridiculous is such an understatement.

[16] See, because they oftentimes will have, like, an actual survival expert or a wildlife expert or someone who knows how to live in the woods.

[17] Sure.

[18] And that was the idea with you, to get a wildlife expert?

[19] Definitely.

[20] I mean, I'm kind of a combo.

[21] Like, I've practiced primitive survival for many years in a means to get closer to wildlife.

[22] Like, I just got back from the Amazon, and we had to feed ourselves every day.

[23] We had to build shelter, blah, blah, blah.

[24] And I don't do it, like, for fun.

[25] I do it as a means to be out further and stay longer kind of thing.

[26] But it's got to be a little bit of a conscious effort, right?

[27] Like, to have fun, like fishing for your food and, you know, putting up shelter and stuff.

[28] It's got to be, like, kind of cool to live like that for a little bit.

[29] It's, uh, it's human nature, you know, like, we, we intrinsically want to hunt things and fish things and build a shelter and survive.

[30] And so it's totally fun.

[31] I think it's like, to your core, it's fun.

[32] You know what I mean?

[33] You just feel it.

[34] Like, you know that you're doing something that's like primal human nature.

[35] Yeah, the Amazon fishing clips that you have on your Instagram page, it's crazy.

[36] Like, you just throw a cast out there and you were catching a big fish, like instantly.

[37] Bonkers.

[38] Like, I've fished a lot of place I'm really into fishing and spearfishing and every, Joe, I'm not kidding, every single cast was a fish.

[39] A peacock bass or a piranha, every cast.

[40] And where we were in the Amazon, super remote, like not a lot of people go there.

[41] I'm sure those fish have never ever seen a lure, never seen a hook before.

[42] And it wasn't like sport fishing.

[43] It was like, okay, let's go catch 10 fish.

[44] In other words, take 10 costs and we have enough food, and that was it.

[45] And it was amazing.

[46] Does it make you think of what the ocean must have been like before people fucked it up?

[47] Of course.

[48] I mean, of course.

[49] As a biologist, that's like all I can think about.

[50] Because I was in Hawaii recently, and we did some snorkeling, and when you're swimming around with the goggles on, looking down at the ocean, one of the things is kind of shocking is how few fish there are.

[51] I know.

[52] Like, you think this should be, like, teeming with life.

[53] You're over these reefs, and you see, like, three or four fish or five fish or something like that.

[54] It's so weird.

[55] I mean, there are these pockets left in the world that are completely untouched, and it's like, as soon as you get into one, you can see it.

[56] You're like, this is what it used to be like everywhere.

[57] And it's like humans haven't had an impact.

[58] I don't, you know, I don't want to disparage anyone in Hawaii, but I don't think there's anywhere in Hawaii like that because it's all so accessible.

[59] Yeah.

[60] And it's just, you know, I've been fortunate enough to see a couple of these pockets and they're just booming with stuff.

[61] And it's like, this is what it could be.

[62] Yeah.

[63] I mean, I guess that's like what it must be to just be in the Amazon itself as well, right?

[64] For sure.

[65] In the jungle, not just the rivers and the lakes or whatever's out there, but the actual jungle itself it's it was incredible the jungle there so we were in columbian amazon and like talk about untouched by people there's been this kind of ongoing going conflict in Colombia for many many years so we were we were the first westerners to go there in over 60 years so the village we flew into they'd literally never seen white people before and then we went 200 kilometers from that so like middle of nowhere did they want to touch you to yeah hair because their hair was very dark and very different and like i'm not particularly fair but just to touch like the hair and see the blue eyes and stuff.

[66] They were just love friendly?

[67] Super friendly.

[68] Like, the culture was very stoic.

[69] Like, there wasn't a lot of smiling or crying, you know, there wasn't like a lot of emotional exchange.

[70] But straight away they came and greeted us, like shook hands, you know, said hello.

[71] It was really cool.

[72] Wow, that's going to be.

[73] Now, how do you set something like that up?

[74] Do you have like a liaison that, like, acts as a go -between between you and the tribes?

[75] Yeah, so we did in this case have one guy who communicated.

[76] I speak Spanish, Spanglish, I guess, and they all speak Spanish from back in the day.

[77] So we set it all up.

[78] It's part of the wildlife stuff that I do.

[79] We literally flew a DC3, a World War II cargo plane, into this cocaine dealer's air strip.

[80] What?

[81] That's how we got there.

[82] I mean, like, mind -blowing stuff.

[83] Current cocaine deal or a former?

[84] Former, former, yeah.

[85] Well, you know, TBD.

[86] It's still Colombia, right?

[87] Exactly.

[88] Wow.

[89] So, yeah, that one was really cool, really remote.

[90] How crazy is that they'd learned Spanish from people who came over on boats from Spain, and it just stuck.

[91] Isn't that nuts?

[92] And took over the whole, like, region, yeah, the whole world.

[93] And here's this tribe in the middle of the Amazon that has this language from another continent.

[94] Well, and Brazil, right, from Portugal.

[95] Right.

[96] It's really incredible when you stop and think about.

[97] I mean, we, it's, it's incredible, but it's also part of it's a little sad.

[98] Like, wouldn't you have loved to have heard what their original language was?

[99] Oh, absolutely.

[100] What it sounded like?

[101] Well, they did.

[102] So it's funny because when they didn't want us to understand what they were talking about, they would switch to their native Indian language.

[103] So they still had, they were bilingual, a community of 25 people that have never left and they're bilingual.

[104] Wow.

[105] It's amazing.

[106] Now, their native language is what?

[107] What is it?

[108] It's an Amazonian Indian dialect.

[109] I honestly don't even, they might have said the name, but I don't recall.

[110] What is the name of their tribe?

[111] Also, I'm not even sure.

[112] They're so isolated.

[113] They're unaware of what country they live.

[114] live in they don't even know that they're in columbia really really they're just like to them they're amazonian they're not columbian ecuadorian brazilian they're they're amazonian whoa yeah you know so they just stay like where they are they stay and the village we were in is literally i think it's over 200 kilometers from the next next village of 15 or so people and they don't have fuel they don't have motors you know they just in this pocket and they just substance live and they're all barefoot right yeah do they have those crazy splayed out feet?

[115] Big feet, you know, because they're not very big people, they're like small Indian people but really big, kind of useful feet.

[116] And the way that they could run up and down trees and climb stuff, I mean, it was unbelievable.

[117] Like so much more athletic than you could imagine.

[118] I'd imagine, right?

[119] They've been doing that their whole life.

[120] Their whole lives, yeah.

[121] Now, when I say splayed out feet, what I'm talking about is that people that walk barefoot in the jungle for long periods of time with their whole life, their toes spread out and their feet almost look like a hand oh no way i did not like pay enough attention that might have been the case but i didn't notice it at their feet exactly yeah it is kind of weird thing stare at dude's feet yeah for sure but um yeah steve ronella uh who's a good friend of mine told me about that he was in guyana and is the same thing and they actually got some pictures and videos of these people's feet but look at these guys up there whoa oh no i didn't notice anything like that yeah um this is the Yeah, that's, uh, how do you say that?

[122] Horan, Horani, Horani?

[123] Horani.

[124] Sounds right.

[125] Horani, you think?

[126] Horani.

[127] Horani Indian splayed feet.

[128] So it's very strange.

[129] Like, it's kind of the opposite of what happens to women when they jam their feet into those little pointy shoes.

[130] Right.

[131] Where they get the toes kind of smush onto each other.

[132] The ballet feet.

[133] Yeah, it's horrible.

[134] Instead of that, they're all like crazy spread out.

[135] What in the fuck is going on there?

[136] The guy's got like, like, hands, I think.

[137] Wood, yeah, the top's hands.

[138] But the bottom is like wood feet.

[139] But that's got to be like what our feet are supposed to be.

[140] Probably right.

[141] Right?

[142] Thick -ass toes that actually have muscles in them that move.

[143] That you can use like a tool, like your hand.

[144] So when these guys just can climb up trees with them, so they grip the side of the tree with their feet like a hand.

[145] Oh, I mean, I didn't notice, like I say, the feet just like that specifically.

[146] But the way they could like, everything's covered in mud down there, right?

[147] It's all wet.

[148] It rains every day.

[149] And they could run up and.

[150] down these tree trunks like to get up and down the village and here's me and my crew with our awkward cameras and stuff and we're slipping and sliding and falling over and like they're they're literally like what's wrong with these people why can't they walk we must have like infants to them right and you guys probably have like boots on and shit they get muddy and fucked up and oh totally yeah we're wearing you know muck boots and my one buddy's got waiters on and you know we think we're all hard and cool because we got all this gear and they're just like running around in shorts barefoot it is so fascinating when you see people that don't have contact with the outside world, like I'm sure you're aware of that recent story, the missionary was killed by the people in North Sentinel Island, which is one of the weirdest places because they've branched off from Africa with 60 ,000 years ago or something like that.

[151] Right.

[152] When you're around these people, like, what do they do if they get injured?

[153] So, funny you asked that, because we kind of had that same question, right?

[154] And they don't leave, they stay in the village.

[155] They have a shaman at the village who blessed us with a crazy green powder, and that's a whole another story.

[156] But they have a shaman, and he is their doctor.

[157] However, he has no access to any Western medicine.

[158] So it's only his learned knowledge handed down through generations plus jungle powders and whatnot.

[159] And that's it.

[160] So we actually, we spent today, because we had a medic with us, doing like kind of village help, if you will.

[161] Everybody had ringworm.

[162] Everybody had respiratory infections.

[163] There were a lot of lady problems in the village that our medic had to deal with.

[164] I mean, there was a lot of health issues, and you don't even realize it.

[165] I'm going to write something down before I forget.

[166] I'm sorry, it's totally unrelated.

[167] No, all good.

[168] There's a doctor named Peter Hotez that's coming on the podcast, and I have to follow up on him.

[169] When you start talking about the people in the jungle, he's an actual doctor who is, he specializes in infectious diseases in jungle and tropical climates, and he's like, everyone's infected with something.

[170] Everyone.

[171] Everyone.

[172] He'd have a heyday down there.

[173] Yeah, I'm sure.

[174] It's probably been.

[175] Yeah.

[176] But the, so when these people have ringworm and all these different infections, do they treat it?

[177] Do they have like some naturopathic cure or some shit?

[178] I think it's kind of a 50 -50.

[179] Like a lot of it they don't treat because it's just part of everyday life.

[180] Like when I say everybody had ringworm, I meant everybody had it.

[181] So I don't think there was any kind of treatment or cure.

[182] It was just kind of part of it, part of them.

[183] Huh.

[184] But other things, you know, the, the witch doctor.

[185] the shaman was trying to treat and then we kind of went in and we had like medication for ringworm so we dewormed everybody and with the shaman's blessing and he was like super excited to have western medicine in the village and would you use like lamassol or something like that i couldn't tell you um i think it was not it wasn't topical i think it was like a vermox like a pill that you take that kills the kills the worms hmm the weird thing about that is like don't you you leave and then they're going to get it again right i mean there's only so much you can do right yeah totally that we were having the same dilemma and it was like do we interfere because we're from the outside world do we help and uh we talked to the shaman through our translator and he said please help please help so we gave including him everybody this dewormer but you know yeah it'll just come back yeah and also they probably don't understand the consequences of taking some antibiotic that's going to do some weird shit to your whole biome right right and these are all the stuff too it's such a moral dilemma you're there and you're like like I want to help do I is it helpful is it hindering our medic was like it's undeniably going to help you know they they need this and so we got we went for it and it was you know it seemed to help everybody felt fine but we were only there a couple more days before we left so who knows wow now when you're talking about ringworm like these guys covered in it they have big patches of it like feet and legs had big patches of it yeah yeah and this if you don't know that's the same shit that's athlete's foot oh I didn't know that.

[186] Yeah, ringworm and athlete's foot are the same kind of funk.

[187] Oh, yeah.

[188] That's why people tell you to pee on your feet.

[189] Oh, I thought that was just for fun.

[190] It could be for fun.

[191] Depends on what you're anything.

[192] But I think that's the idea behind it is that you're somehow or another, you're killing the bad bacteria when you, you're piss on your feet and you have athletes' foot.

[193] That might be horseshit.

[194] Maybe, yeah.

[195] With me, you always have to check.

[196] Yeah, definitely give that a little look -sy.

[197] But at, um, at a real common thing with jujitsu gotcha so guys all the mats yeah it's real common so just guys get it and there's people really fuck up where they like put bleach on it and a bunch of different things to try to kill it and winds up getting worse and also fucks up all the natural skin flora jock itch athletes foot and ring warmer all types of fungal skin infection is known collectively as tinia tinia tinia they're caused by fungi called dermatrophites that live on skin, hair, and nails and thrive in warm, moist areas, the jungle.

[198] So it seems like they're just going to get it.

[199] That's just what it sounds like, you know, but still trying to help.

[200] What do they do for it?

[201] I didn't see them treating that at all.

[202] And when we pointed it out, they were like, yeah, yeah, we know about it.

[203] You know, they were more concerned with things that were like dire.

[204] Like there was an infant, maybe not infant, maybe three years old.

[205] And he was hacking up a lung.

[206] And he was asthmatic, according to our medic.

[207] So my, our medic gave them like an asthma medication.

[208] and he just said, you know, if he has an attack where he can't breathe, give him this.

[209] And, like, you know, to be super real with you when we walked away, our medic was like, I doubt he'll live to see adulthood.

[210] Oh, man. Yeah.

[211] And were you giving them inhalers?

[212] Did you give him?

[213] I'm not sure, to be honest, what it was that he left with him.

[214] And what about, like, injuries?

[215] What if they break a leg or something like that?

[216] What do they do?

[217] I don't think anything.

[218] Yeah.

[219] Was anybody, I mean, you've got to think these people are climate trees.

[220] They must fall.

[221] Constantly.

[222] Fall, get bitten by stuff.

[223] There's tons of venomous snakes out there.

[224] there.

[225] It's wet, it's muddy, it's slippery.

[226] They're building stuff out of very rudimentary tools.

[227] I mean, it's, it's nuts.

[228] They have to get injured.

[229] It's so interesting that we have this understanding of medicine and doctors and hospitals, but that's probably pretty fucking recent.

[230] Oh, of course, yeah.

[231] I'll tell you a story, Joe.

[232] I was in Myanmar, late last year, and we're down there filming this thing, and this kid, like 22 -year -old crab fisherman, gets bitten by a crocodile.

[233] Crock grabs him by the arm, grabs him by the thigh, and death rolls.

[234] So it breaks the arm in like, I don't know, 15 places, compound fracture, the real deal.

[235] I can show you pictures of it.

[236] It'll blow your mind.

[237] And we hear about this, and we're minutes away.

[238] It's kind of one of the similar situations where the first Westerners would be there in a long time.

[239] We go bombing over at high speed, and we get there, and the mom is like off mourning the death of her child, but her child is sitting there still alive.

[240] Like, they have written him off.

[241] and it's mom is literally mourning the death of her child and he's he's lying there conscious but like in total shock fortunately just because of the situation we had a speedboat everything else we bandaged him up you know tried to keep his arm stable and his leg stable put him in our speedboat and it was six hours by speedboat to a village that had a or to a hospital really and so he got there and his life was saved but i asked we asked the people in the village what were you going to do and they're like there's nothing we can do wow so he's He was just going to bleed out or go septic, and that was the end of it.

[242] Oh, what a fucking rough way to go.

[243] Right.

[244] How did he get away from the crocodile?

[245] I don't know.

[246] I think he was just hitting it or hammering on it.

[247] He was crab fishing in the water, and it came up and grabbed him, rolled a few times, and at some point he escaped.

[248] How he even got back in the boat and made it back to the village, I have no idea, because his leg was shattered, his arm was shattered.

[249] It was brutal.

[250] And it was a canoe, you know, it wasn't like he had a little motor or a wheel to drive.

[251] He canoed back.

[252] One of the most disturbing stories I ever read was these guys were kayaking in an African river, and the guy in front of them got grabbed by a crocodile, and that it went under, and it like plunged like a bobber as the crocodile pulled him out of the bottom of the kayak.

[253] Yeah.

[254] I'm like, fuck.

[255] That's awful.

[256] Imagine being the guy behind him and watching that shit?

[257] Just watching, yeah, and knowing that you're pretty much helpless.

[258] Did you see any jaguars or anything?

[259] I've never seen a jaguar.

[260] I've seen a lot of lines.

[261] I'm from Africa.

[262] I don't know if you knew that.

[263] So I've seen a lot of lions growing up.

[264] My family did safaris.

[265] And then I've seen, you know, mountain lions here in California, leopard, stuff like that.

[266] I've never seen a wild jaguar.

[267] Really?

[268] Even when you were in the Amazon?

[269] I think they're really elusive.

[270] I know there's areas that are hot spots.

[271] All of the locals were very nervous and kind of knew about them.

[272] Like, you know, I went out for bushwalks at night and stuff.

[273] And I'd just go me and one guy with a camera.

[274] And they were like, oh, be careful.

[275] Like Pellegroso, you know, very dangerous.

[276] Don't do it.

[277] Um, but perigrosso means very dangerous.

[278] Peli Grosso, like danger.

[279] And, um, so we just go and, you know, I'm not trying to act like we were tougher than them or anything.

[280] We would love to have seen one, but they were very aware of them.

[281] So they were there.

[282] We just didn't happen to run into one.

[283] Sort of like mountain lines.

[284] Exactly.

[285] Like, they say that mountain lines are, like if you live in a place that has them, you know, Wyoming or Colorado or something like that, they know where you are.

[286] Right.

[287] Right.

[288] But you, they might be around you all the time and you might rarely see them.

[289] Exactly.

[290] Maybe driving home, you see one skittering into the bush.

[291] There was a nuts video.

[292] I think it was from the L .A. area.

[293] Did you ever see it where the security cams picked up this mountain line that was walking through this very residential neighborhood?

[294] And you'd see, like, people would walk by, and then 30 seconds later, he'd, like, dip out of the shadows, and then dip back in, and then the next set of people would walk by, and nobody had any clue he was there.

[295] Yeah.

[296] That's crazy that a giant predator can move around like that.

[297] Right.

[298] Yeah.

[299] So when you're there, like, what would you have done if someone got bit by a venomous?

[300] snake or a spider or something like that did you guys have any ante venom were you prepared for something like that i mean that's my department right like as the wildlife guy that's that's kind of my my department is make sure nobody gets bitten make sure nothing like that happens and we handled very many venomous snakes and caught anacondas and all kinds of great stuff we did have like my main camera guys names Mitch he got absolutely lit up by these wasps one night and we all were we got like 12 14 stings each but i look back in the canoe at one point and his eyes are just super swollen.

[301] He's bright red.

[302] He's sweating.

[303] I'm like, Mitchie, okay.

[304] He's like, uh -uh.

[305] His throat started to close up.

[306] He was having an allergic reaction.

[307] So we had to hit him with antihistamines.

[308] And I'm not actually sure if the medic administered the EpiPen or not, but he was like, we're in the middle of the jungle.

[309] We're six hours from a village that's then a full day's travel by a charter plane from a hospital.

[310] I mean, middle of fucking nowhere.

[311] And his throat's closing up.

[312] And that's why we take a medic with us.

[313] Thankfully, we had this emergency medic he administered the antihistamines and Mitch was okay but these things do happen do you ever like while you're on these crazy adventures do you ever out there going this is the last one no no way never no way man I love it I live for it wow how long you've been doing this I mean like for TV for animal planet uh three years I guess but to go on X the reason I got into that and doing it for TV is because I've been doing it like my whole life I grew up in Zimbabwe my mom was a bush pilot so when we weren't on safari she was like flying us these remote places in the middle of bush and we were going out on safari and like as long as I can remember this has been what I do now when you go on safari are you in those open jeeps walking safaris what yeah dude what are you doing uh we take a four five eight an elephant gun okay put it on your shoulder that helps walking safari god damn man only during the day right obviously cannot move at night and what do you do when you're confronted I mean, I've had some pretty close calls.

[314] My wife, Jess, who's here with me, I saved her from a hippo.

[315] Oh!

[316] Yeah, we've had some pretty close calls.

[317] Fuck, man. One of the scariest pictures I ever saw was this guy, this African guy, running down the street, and a hippo is chasing him.

[318] And you look at the size of the hippo, and you're like, good Christ, that thing is huge.

[319] They're, Joe, they are the scariest animals on Earth.

[320] Like, interacting with a hippopotamus, they're so erratic, they're so unpredictable.

[321] If they feel threatened at all, I mean, they're just...

[322] This video is fucking.

[323] bananas.

[324] This guy's on a motorboat and the hippo is swimming after him like a torpedo.

[325] So this is where I'm from.

[326] This is Zimbabwe.

[327] Really?

[328] Yeah.

[329] So is this common that they swim that fast?

[330] They can move.

[331] I mean, this is uncommon to have one chase the boat and come that close.

[332] How fucking big it is, man. Yeah.

[333] So when you've had these close encounters, what do you do?

[334] You shoot at the air, shoot at the ground, scare them away.

[335] Fortunately, I've never had to put animal down, but I know people that have That's the picture.

[336] Look at that's it.

[337] That's the one.

[338] What in the fuck?

[339] How fast is that big bastard run?

[340] I don't know.

[341] You'd have to look up the exact speed, but definitely at top speed, definitely faster than human.

[342] But they don't have the maneuverability.

[343] You know, you can kind of duck and dodge behind trees.

[344] So just don't run a straight line.

[345] Exactly.

[346] Yeah.

[347] Fuck that.

[348] 20 miles.

[349] 19.

[350] Yeah.

[351] Yeah, what does a person run?

[352] A rhino.

[353] A rhino runs 31.

[354] Jesus Christ.

[355] Jesus.

[356] A fucking cheetah can run 75 miles an hour?

[357] I thought it was like 50.

[358] Uh -uh.

[359] A crocodile is almost as fast as the fucking hippo.

[360] Oh my God.

[361] 18 miles an hour for a crock.

[362] Fuck that.

[363] Top speed for sprinters around 21, 22, maybe.

[364] Oh.

[365] But that's not sustained.

[366] Yeah.

[367] That's also a sprinter.

[368] Right.

[369] I'm saying a sprinter.

[370] Not a doughy white guy like us.

[371] Fuck.

[372] Jesus Christ.

[373] So you just, if you're chased by a hippo, Oh, is there a move that you do?

[374] Do you just have to go left and right?

[375] Zigzag, yeah, maneuverability.

[376] So, like, when we got chased, we got behind a termite mound, and then it kept going straight.

[377] Ah, you're hiding behind termites.

[378] Yeah.

[379] Nothing says safety like termites.

[380] Oh, my God, dude.

[381] That's so crazy.

[382] Fuck, man. So that's the scariest thing in Africa in terms of, like, interacting with human beings.

[383] You know what the scariest thing in Africa is?

[384] Mosquitoes.

[385] Oh, of course, right?

[386] Like all stuff you can see, all the big wildlife, you can kind of feel it out and you put yourself in the bad situations.

[387] Mosquitoes, there's nothing, you know what I mean?

[388] There's nothing you can do about it.

[389] Yeah, my buddy Justin Wren, he runs Fight for the Forgotten Charity.

[390] They build wells for the Pygmies.

[391] Okay.

[392] And he's been bitten, he's gotten malaria three times.

[393] Ugh.

[394] Yeah.

[395] And one time he got it, like he didn't even get bit again.

[396] The malaria just returned.

[397] So it must be in some way systemic.

[398] I believe it is.

[399] I don't, I never had it, knock on wood.

[400] My grandfather had it, but I know that it's, it wrecks you for life.

[401] Like, it can come back, you can get it again.

[402] It stays with you.

[403] I think that's his situation, and he's a professional athlete.

[404] He's actually a fighter for Bellator.

[405] He's one of their heavyweight contenders.

[406] Damn.

[407] Has he said that it's affected his performance?

[408] No, I don't think it has.

[409] I think he's been okay with it.

[410] You know, he received treatment, but it's definitely wrecked him on three separate occasions where he was, you know, basically on death's door.

[411] Right, right.

[412] And one of him was when he was flying back.

[413] Damn.

[414] You know, and he's just sweating and just rotting out in the inside.

[415] Oof.

[416] Awful.

[417] So you want to ask what scares me, that's it.

[418] Yeah.

[419] Like I would, I'll take a hippo, a snake, a crock, a leopard, anything over that.

[420] Yeah, malaria is terrifying.

[421] They say malaria has killed more people than anything ever.

[422] Really?

[423] Yeah.

[424] Malaria's killed half the people that have ever died.

[425] Oh my God.

[426] That's insane.

[427] Just make sure that's right.

[428] That might be bullshit, too.

[429] It sounds good.

[430] I think it's real.

[431] I think we actually have Googled this before, that malaria has literally killed 50 % of all the people that have ever died.

[432] That's insane.

[433] Yeah, it's nuts.

[434] I mean, people are worried about so many different things, and you should be worried about mosquitoes.

[435] Exactly.

[436] Well, apparently they're trying to genetically engineer mosquitoes to be void of devoid of malaria and they hybridize right so my understanding is the way that it's done is they genetically engineer the males to reproduce with the females which are the malaria carriers and then the offspring of that generation can no longer carry malaria yeah okay malaria killed half the people who have ever lived that is bonkers because it's a myth it's a myth yeah it would have had to kill it says like five and a half million people on average per year every year for all of human history and that's not i think it kills half a million a year i think the real number is like half a year it says it would have to be five and a half a minute oh okay so it's just one of those things that people say yeah i like it well i should probably shut the fuck up but what else is new um so how many people have they killed uh a lot okay we'll go with a lot so are there other i mean there's out like typhoid and shit isn't there like a fucking case of typhoid in california now Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[437] Well, we've got some weird situations in this country with, you know, measles returning and polio returning and all these diseases.

[438] Ebola came in.

[439] Yeah, what the hell.

[440] Typhus outbreaks expands in L .A. and Long Beach.

[441] Jesus.

[442] Cool.

[443] Thanks for having me down here, Joe.

[444] Congratulations.

[445] Did you notice my hand was sweaty when we're shut?

[446] They're different, but.

[447] It's different?

[448] It's similar, but different.

[449] It's not typhoid, it's typhus.

[450] Just a flea -borne disease that can.

[451] can be treated with the antibiotics or something.

[452] Yeah.

[453] I'm terrified of Lyme disease, too.

[454] Have you had Lyme?

[455] No, but I have a gang of friends that have had it, and it wrecks them.

[456] Well, you spend a ton of time hiking around and stuff out here, yeah.

[457] Well, California doesn't have much lime, but East Coast, it's horrific.

[458] It's like everybody that spends time outdoors in the Northeast seems to get it.

[459] Yeah, and I don't know what you can do about that.

[460] There was a vaccine that they were doing for a while, but one of my friends, her dad, actually got Lyme disease from the vaccine.

[461] Huh.

[462] Like, you didn't have it, got vaccinated, and wound up catching it from the vaccine.

[463] And I think they were like, okay, fuck this vaccine.

[464] Sorry.

[465] Because they had it for a while, I believe.

[466] Yeah, that's no fun.

[467] Yeah.

[468] So when you were a kid, you were doing this.

[469] Like, you've been involved.

[470] So, like, the family business?

[471] Sort of.

[472] My family business was, my mom's business, actually, was safari businesses.

[473] So, like you say, sit in a land rover, see the animals kind of thing.

[474] And they did a little bit tourist walking safaris, but then I grew up on a farm in the outskirts of Harari, Zimbabwe, and then whenever I wasn't in school, I was on the farm, running around barefoot, catching snakes, fishing, yada, yada.

[475] And then when my mom wasn't booked up, she had this little bush plane that she used for safaris, and we'd just adventure all over Africa.

[476] Wow.

[477] So it was a great childhood.

[478] That sounds amazing, but fucking terrifying.

[479] I mean, it's like one of those things where it's what you're used to, right?

[480] I found moving to the states at age 14 and, like, trying to find my.

[481] like place in the world being this weird little private school kid from Africa way more terrifying than going to meet a tribe in the middle of the bush.

[482] Really?

[483] For sure.

[484] Yeah.

[485] Why?

[486] Um, like, I'll give you examples.

[487] Like, I always carry a pocket knife on me, right?

[488] My first day here in the States, I go to school, pull my pocket.

[489] I'm sitting in my, like, uniform, because I went to a very proper English boarding school, pull out my pocket knife, start cutting my apple.

[490] Fifteen minutes later, I'm in handcuffs.

[491] And I'm like, what did I do?

[492] What did I do?

[493] I literally had no idea what I had done wrong, but it was because I had a knife at school.

[494] Everybody I had ever been to school with had a knife to cut their apple.

[495] Like it was the standard thing.

[496] So here I am with like police and you know guns and badges and they're throwing me in handcuffs and taking me out of the school on day one in America.

[497] And I'm like, this is the scariest thing I've ever seen.

[498] And I didn't even learn until later that day that it was because I had a pocket knife.

[499] And at no point did I think having a pocket knife was a bad thing.

[500] So they didn't tell you?

[501] No, they just grabbed me. There was like this whole thing.

[502] Like the knife went flying.

[503] I was chained up and I was like, what's going on?

[504] What's going on?

[505] And they're like, you're in big trouble.

[506] And I was like, why?

[507] And, uh, you know, it was like little culture shock things like that that to me were like something I'd done every day my whole life.

[508] And now I'm like getting thrown in juvie for it kind of thing.

[509] When you think back about that, do you think that's just the consequences of being in a large population?

[510] For sure.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Yeah.

[513] I mean, like we, like I say, I went to school every day with a knife.

[514] There was no violence issues.

[515] There was nothing like that.

[516] But then you come here where, you know, the stabbings and stuff like that.

[517] And it's because.

[518] Because, you know, we had a time, I lived in a tiny country with a tiny population.

[519] Do you think that it's possible that, I mean, I mean, stupid, but there's no way you could live like that over here.

[520] I mean, there's no way you can have kids with a bunch of knives.

[521] No, I don't think so.

[522] Not with this culture.

[523] I don't think so at all.

[524] I think that would be terrible.

[525] And I get it now as an adult.

[526] Nobody talked to you about it before you left the house?

[527] No. My mom didn't know.

[528] She's from Africa.

[529] You know, she's like, here are your things.

[530] Here's your knife, son.

[531] I'll put in my pocket.

[532] Make sure you sharpen it before you go to school.

[533] Totally, man. Wow.

[534] So you were doing these, always doing these walking safaris?

[535] You started out doing the driving ones and then eventually you started doing the walking ones?

[536] My family business did walking safaris.

[537] They didn't do hunting.

[538] It was all photographic.

[539] And we were in the Zambezi Valley.

[540] So Zambezi River is one of the biggest rivers in the world.

[541] So we'd do these walking safaris and then we did canoe safaris as well, which is why I have so many hippo and crock stories because we'd be canoeing down the Zambezi River and then taking photographs and seeing wildlife that way.

[542] Wow.

[543] What a crazy way to grow up, man. Your relationship to wildlife is just so different than the average person in this country.

[544] For sure.

[545] It's very intimate.

[546] Like I feel like I have, like regardless of being a scientist by trade, I feel like I have a very intimate understanding of animals because I grew up completely surrounded by them.

[547] Now, what other countries have you explored?

[548] I'm over 60 countries now.

[549] Damn.

[550] Yeah.

[551] So a lot.

[552] All for wildlife work.

[553] Whether it's for the show that I do or for biology contracts before I did the show.

[554] or just because, like, for instance, when I got done with college, I was like, I had a tiny little business starting college, sold it, and was like, I'm going to travel the world and try and photograph these animals.

[555] And I went to 28 countries looking for wildlife.

[556] Did you have something to do with looking for the Tasmanian tiger?

[557] Yeah, yeah, I did.

[558] What do you think?

[559] I think of all the extinct animals that have gone extinct at the hand of man, given the range, I don't know if you know this, but the Tasmanian tiger at one point ranged from Papua New Guinea all the way down to Tasmania.

[560] So not just the island of Tasmania, but thousands, tens of thousands of miles.

[561] I think given the range, the frequency of sightings, the amount of untouched habitat in Australia and Tasmania and Papua New Guinea, where they just found a new dog species, by the way.

[562] They did?

[563] Yeah, the Highland dog in New Guinea, maybe a year ago now, an incredible -looking animal.

[564] Like, absolutely.

[565] Could there be a very small remnant population of thylacine, Tasmanian tiger, hiding out in an isolated pocket of habitat?

[566] I totally think it's possible.

[567] And these sightings, are they coming from?

[568] from credible sources?

[569] So I did one expedition.

[570] I've done two expeditions looking for thylacine, and one of them, I was literally talking to the man who is the head park ranger for, like, the entire North Queensland.

[571] So he's a scientist by trade, a biologist by degree, and he says, I saw four of them.

[572] Whoa.

[573] You know, so this isn't like some crackpot drunk who's like, yeah, they're here.

[574] You know, this is a guy who is like myself, a scientist, a biologist, and spends his life in the bush.

[575] He knows every animal in that area, and he goes, I saw four of them.

[576] Wow.

[577] So, like, how do you not, like, I get goosebumps talking about it, because how do you not, like, take that as credible?

[578] No, that's about as credible as it gets.

[579] Whoa, look at that cool -looking dog.

[580] There it is.

[581] What a freaky -looking, the world's rarest and most ancient dog has been rediscovered in the wild.

[582] So this New Guinea highland dog was thought to be extinct.

[583] Is that the idea?

[584] That's right.

[585] Yep.

[586] Wow.

[587] So this thylacine, this area is where, where they are, has there been a concerted effort to find these things?

[588] Sort of.

[589] I mean, it's one of those things where, like, I would say the thylacine is, like, the icon of animals coming back from extinction for Australia, right?

[590] It's kind of like everybody knows about it in Australia.

[591] They all care about it.

[592] But where these efforts are is like outside of Sydney or, you know what I mean?

[593] It's close to home.

[594] So there hasn't been a lot of expeditions really deep in to look for them.

[595] And that's what I did.

[596] So there's so much belief that the animal is still out there that the, shoot, it's the university in Cairns.

[597] I'm blanking on the name of it right now.

[598] The university itself put money towards funding.

[599] to find it.

[600] So when you have a credible institution like a university going, here's money, go and find this thing, you've got to think, and I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but you've got to think they have some intel that says, look, we're not wasting our money to look for something that's not there.

[601] We've heard something, we've seen something, we caught something on a trail camera, let's prove it.

[602] And so I actually teamed up with...

[603] They caught something on a trail camera.

[604] Hard to say.

[605] But what they did do is fund this expedition.

[606] So myself and the university, who's still ongoing with the research when it looked in this area in north queensland where i went and how far deep did you go in uh 1200 miles 1200 miles yep took 14 hours driving and then hiking from there whoa yeah 14 hours on dirt roads because this is the area where they've been cited the most numerous uh this is where that sighting that i was talking about came from from the biologist as well as i think four other sightings the the community up there is a place called portland roads you could look it up i think it's 12 people and wow live totally not like the Amazon off the grid, but off the grid.

[607] It's all like solar energy and build it yourself.

[608] There's no power lines, blah, blah, blah.

[609] So it's just this small group of kind of like people in the middle of nowhere and almost everybody in that community has seen them.

[610] So that's where we based it out of and then went deep from there.

[611] Almost everyone in the community.

[612] And no one's took a photograph that they have cameras?

[613] Everybody's, you know, everybody's got a cell phone kind of thing.

[614] But it's like, it's all, it's always the same story where it's like, yeah, it was there.

[615] It was late at night.

[616] By the time I reach of my pocket it had gone off.

[617] Except for the biologist I was telling you about, who said it ran around with his dogs.

[618] Whoa.

[619] Yeah.

[620] He's out camping and he's like, oh, there's this red eye shine and my dog goes nuts and runs over there.

[621] And then there's four thylacine jumping around with my dog, like for like 15 minutes.

[622] And he's like, I'm trying to get a picture.

[623] And, you know, it's like 300 yards away.

[624] It's in the dark and without the flashlight and the phone.

[625] Fuck.

[626] Yeah.

[627] So it's basically 100 % of this thing's alive.

[628] I mean, as a scientist, you can never put that number.

[629] but to me, yes, that's why I've done two expeditions and I plan on doing more.

[630] I feel it's out there.

[631] Like, it's a gut feeling that it's there.

[632] Did you ever see that, there was a Willem Defoe movie?

[633] Yeah.

[634] The Hunter, that's right.

[635] And he goes and shoots the last one.

[636] Yeah.

[637] Bustard.

[638] It was a weird movie.

[639] It was a weird movie.

[640] It didn't really work, right?

[641] The movie was off.

[642] It was very strange.

[643] And there was like a scientific reason you had to find it or kill it or, I don't know, it was weird.

[644] Someone was paying him, wasn't it?

[645] Didn't someone hire him to do it?

[646] But wasn't there a, like, he was a bounty hunter for the animal because it had some weird genome or, I don't remember.

[647] I don't remember either.

[648] Yeah.

[649] So, but that's how they died off, right?

[650] People hunting them?

[651] Put a bounty on them.

[652] That's how bad it was.

[653] Yeah.

[654] When settlers came to Tasmania, which was the last stronghold for him, um, they were, they were killing sheep and sheep farmers things.

[655] And the government was like, get rid of them, you know, put a bounty on him.

[656] And what year was this?

[657] Uh, you'd have to cross check.

[658] It's been a while since I've read, read up on that.

[659] But, um...

[660] The last ones died off in like the early 1900s, right?

[661] that's right the ones they think yeah they're a old freaky looking animal there is one set of footage from it ever from the one in the hobart zoo and it's you look at it's an insane looking creature it's yeah just nuts you got that try to play the video it's not playing oh it's not playing um yeah it's a freaky animal it doesn't even look real it looks like a like a cross between a tiger and a dog or something and it's and it's kangaroo by phonetics it's a marsupial so it's got a pouch and it's just so weird stripes and that's a strange thing about australia and that a whole area's like how did what what's this marsupial thing and why didn't that catch on anywhere else dude look at him is that freaky thing and wait till you see that there's a shot where he kind of turns his face and does like a yawn and you'll see he can open his jaw the way like a snake does to almost 180 degrees i mean it's it's bizarre yeah to swallow well coyotes are kind of like that too not quite so extreme but right when you see a coyote yawning you're like what right the fuck look at that oh that's so crazy isn't that insane yeah it's like a crocodile almost yeah yeah yeah a strange animal man i'm i'm obsessed with them i'm totally fascinated by him yeah i hope you get a photo of these fuckers me too man i mean did they so i've in that area did you guys set up trail cams and we did 200 trail cameras wow yeah and then the university that we partnered with who didn't go as remote as we did but they're still doing a big area i think they have 10 000 10 000 trail cameras something crazy like maybe it's a thousand it's a huge number.

[662] So what do you do with those?

[663] How does that work?

[664] So you do like a grid pattern, right?

[665] So you know how a trail camera works.

[666] Motion's activated, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[667] So they just, they literally, here's the mountains, here's whatever, and they set out all these like undergrads and they're like place one every 300 meters pointing, you know, in this direction, blah, blah, blah, blah, and they just do a grid.

[668] And they do that for a month, two months, whatever it is, collect them all, and then move to the next grid and then move to the next grid and just blanket the area.

[669] And I think, I could be wrong on this, but I think the search that, they're doing that university is going to be the most comprehensive trail camera survey ever conducted and so as far as you know they don't have a photo of one yet as far as we know but think of it this way again i'm not a big conspiracy guy but if you're if you're at a university it might be it's like my this probably as close as they have there's a lot of these could be there's a new one that just came out whoa see to me that's a mangy fox that's not a thylose no look at the base of the tail's very thin.

[670] It's carrying in an upward curve instead of straight.

[671] Like, if you look at kangaroo's tail, it's very flat.

[672] There's a lot of fox problems in Australia where they're introduced.

[673] Could be wrong.

[674] You know, as a scientist, I try not to get too excited when I see something that I'm like, this is it.

[675] It's hard to tell because of the way the grass is, for sure.

[676] It makes it look like he's got stripes on his back like a tiger.

[677] Wow.

[678] A trail cam has captured an image that is excited Tasmanian tiger hunters to the possibility of the animal may roam freely across Australia.

[679] really wow how big is that thing uh they're like coyote sized very similar to a coyote in size wow yeah so um don't you think though that if they had definitive footage that they would release it to try to get more funding and dude the problem is footage isn't definitive anymore like uh two years last year i got a photo of a leopard in zanzibar the first time in 25 years the animals declared extinct and we caught a video not even a photo a video of a zanzibar leopard took it up the chain and they're like, unless we have genetic proof, the animal remains extinct.

[680] So I think, you know, it's so hard to say.

[681] William Defoe.

[682] Yeah, yeah.

[683] Come on, Will.

[684] So yeah, I think, I think, you know, if the university had something, they're trying to get enough data to really present a case as opposed to, like, you know, throwing up a flag over something, one individual thing.

[685] Is there a concern that a bunch of amateur wildlife hunters would go there?

[686] What is this, Jamie?

[687] There it is.

[688] That's my leopard.

[689] Oh, that's the leopard.

[690] Have you seen that photo, or the footage, rather, of the jaguar that they found in Arizona?

[691] Yeah.

[692] Yeah.

[693] That's really interesting, too, right?

[694] Amazing.

[695] They're starting to make their way up from Mexico.

[696] It's such a weird region that, because here's this huge Sonoran desert that you think none of these tropical animals can make it across, and for whatever reason, southern Arizona gets jaguars and Kodomundi and peccary and all these, like, tropical animals.

[697] Yeah.

[698] What the hell?

[699] I don't know the answer.

[700] What the hell's going on that all these rainforests.

[701] creatures are making it through this thousand mile stretch of desert and into southern Arizona probably bored it could be looking for cool cool places to visit yeah you know maybe they I mean maybe it's just like a natural instinct to roam and expand your territory there he is yeah look at that thing amazing that's an incredible animal so beautiful and it's huge huge they're they're 200 plus pounds right it's a big fucking aggressive cat what's bigger a jaguar or a leopard leopard leopard yeah yeah and that's even bigger but it's such a beautiful animal too and apparently they were all over north america jaguars in time yeah like that area like texas during the palisina yeah oh interesting i didn't even know that but um when did they i mean they they were pushed out of i feel like that might not be true though i feel like they were they were more numerous in like arizona in like the southwest makes sense i mean you know we had so much megafauna here back in the day um there would have been a lot of prey for them Now, because of the fact that you spend so much time in the wild and that you have this interest in these, what would you call cryptozoology animals?

[702] Well, I'm not a crypto guy, so just to be clear, and nothing against crypto guys, but I don't do Loch Nass or Bigfoot or anything.

[703] I'm a true wildlife biologist, so I only focus on wildlife.

[704] So not to interrupt you, but I'm just very, very structured in the sense that I really only look for animals that we have an understanding of.

[705] Right.

[706] Right.

[707] Well, yeah, the Bigfoot one is the most compelling, but also probably the most bullshit.

[708] I think there's a mix there.

[709] I think people believe that they've seen certain things.

[710] You know, it's, do I think that there could have been large primates that we attribute to Bigfoot?

[711] Sure.

[712] Whether they're still here or not, whether people have ever seen them, I'm so, like, not well read on that.

[713] Isn't it interesting, though, that if there was one, it would probably be the most spectacular find.

[714] ever.

[715] But meanwhile, we have chimps and bonobos.

[716] Right.

[717] And we have all these things that are real.

[718] Well, because there's so much like lore and culture associated with it now.

[719] Yeah.

[720] And not just like our Western culture, but like cave paintings of big hairy creatures and like everything.

[721] I mean, it would be like this mind -blowing discovery.

[722] Have you ever went and looked for the Bondo ape?

[723] No, I know what it is.

[724] But no, never gone and looked for it.

[725] They're sure that's a real thing.

[726] Really?

[727] Yeah.

[728] They've got skulls and hair samples and photographs and video.

[729] And for people don't know what we're talking about, it's a gigantic chimpanzee.

[730] Right.

[731] Like a six -foot -tall chimpanzee, which is just fucking nuts.

[732] And it does walk erect, right?

[733] Sometimes, yeah.

[734] There's a camera trap photo.

[735] There's a guy named Dr. Carl, no, he's not a doctor.

[736] I think he's called Carl Harmon.

[737] Carl, Harman.

[738] Harman, is that?

[739] Amon.

[740] Amon?

[741] Carl Amon.

[742] And he's a, is it, Swiss wildlife photographer?

[743] Anyway, he set up a bunch of camera traps and he got one of them walking.

[744] Amazing.

[745] It's freaky.

[746] And there's some photos of.

[747] these gentlemen that shot one near an air strip and it's fucking huge you don't know how big the men are right they might be small and it's in front of them but it is without a doubt like one of the biggest chimpanzees you've ever seen in life and it's they have a crest on their head their skull has a crest like a gorilla huh yeah it has like the the bone of the skull it has it kind of fuse it up yeah yeah yeah yeah which you have a picture of that I'd love to see it I'm not not familiar with the anatomy of them yeah it's um It's really interesting because I think for the longest time they didn't think they were real.

[748] It's a part of that Michael Crichton book, Congo.

[749] Remember, there was a really terrible movie.

[750] I know the book as well.

[751] Look at the size of that fucker.

[752] Yeah, that's insane.

[753] Yeah, that's one of them.

[754] And that doesn't look like forced perspective.

[755] You know what I mean?

[756] It looks like they're right in front of them.

[757] And that's one from the early 1900s, I believe, where these guys shot one.

[758] And they were like, what is this?

[759] This is just giant champ.

[760] go see if you can find the one of the there right above is the one where it's walking right there yeah oh that's the camera trap wow and he's erect yeah he's erect and he's you know is he these people that one of one of the sightings they saw one walk by a truck like walk across a road they said it was the same height as the truck that's insane so they have like you know like a toyota helix or something like that and it's literally the height like a six foot tall man but a giant chimp.

[761] And I mean, you know, to go back to the Bigfoot thing, you can totally see where we get that from, right?

[762] You look at this huge primate that's the size of a human being and your brain instantly goes, it's mythological.

[763] And I'm pretty sure that they didn't have photos of this thing until the 20th century, like the late 20th century.

[764] No kidding.

[765] Yeah.

[766] That's amazing.

[767] Yeah, it's a trip, man. They nest on the ground like guerrillas.

[768] Like a gorilla.

[769] Yeah.

[770] Wow.

[771] And the locals have two different name for, uh, two different names for chimps.

[772] They call them tree beaters and lion killers.

[773] Huh.

[774] And the tree beaters are the ones that are up in the trees, the smaller chimps.

[775] Sure.

[776] The lion killers are these big ones that live on the ground.

[777] Yeah.

[778] And apparently there's some either video footage or there was some eyewitness account of one of them eating a leopard.

[779] No way.

[780] So it was a dead leopard that they were eating, whether or not they killed it or they found it but they were eating this fucking thing regardless like to be a primate at the top of the food chain eating a big cat i mean that's nuts it's nuts would you ever think of going there and trying to find those things fuck yeah they're deep in there great yeah um i think they're in a place called beely bealy in the congo that's where they think they are they've isolated a population of them there really my mom just got back from the congo and she still does like her own adventure stuff and she was saying it's just like she's been all over as well she's like it's mine blowing.

[781] Like, there's so much remoteness and unstudied area that there could be all kinds of things.

[782] God damn, man. Now, what kind of medication do you have to take if you're going to go there?

[783] Because you have to take some anti -malarial stuff, right?

[784] Dude, I'm a pincushion.

[785] Like, I've had so many shots and pills and, you know, like, preventative, obviously.

[786] I actually don't do malaria medication.

[787] I just cover up.

[788] Because it messes with your brain.

[789] I don't know if you know that.

[790] Like, they say the modern ones aren't bad, but the malarone, like, you have hallucinations.

[791] at night.

[792] You have crazy sweats, like, especially if you're in hot sun.

[793] So I would rather be more focused, especially if I'm working with reptiles or stuff like that that can, you know, envenate me. So I try to stay away from it and just cover up.

[794] Wow.

[795] Is there a specific type of clothing that's like anti -mosquito repellent clothing or anything like that?

[796] I just do long sleeves and some bug spray.

[797] And do you do a mask as well?

[798] No. No?

[799] That's silliness.

[800] Really?

[801] It looks silly.

[802] It does look silly.

[803] No, I just do, you know, good old deed.

[804] God, that stuff's got to be bad for you, too, though, no?

[805] It melts you.

[806] Like, if you get it on, like, say, these things, it will melt the paint off of the headphones.

[807] It's so strong.

[808] Ooh.

[809] It's probably worse than the mall.

[810] Have you ever used a thermoset?

[811] What is they called?

[812] Um, fucking, is it called a thermicell?

[813] I think that's what's called.

[814] Um, it's, um, it's a device that heats up.

[815] It's got like an element inside of it and like a little bit, a little canister of, uh, gasoline.

[816] And you put these sheets and it releases this very, fine mist that you can kind of smell and mosquitoes fucking hated no way yeah we used it in Alberta huh Alberta has very aggressive mosquitoes when they're out yep when they're out they're out it's like clouds of them right yeah because it's only alive for like three months right it's gotta go you're gonna go it's like Alaska you've ever seen crazy they can like pick you up yeah they're like there's size of pigeons and they're fucking everywhere totally totally I went fishing with my friend Ari and we pulled up the the car and we got out of the car and we opened the car door and within seconds a swarm of mosquitoes was inside the car.

[817] It's insane.

[818] And we were screaming like, what the fuck?

[819] This is crazy.

[820] It is like something out of a Stephen King movie.

[821] Like there's clouds and they I, yeah, that's why you ask me what I'm scared of, it's that.

[822] Fucking clouds of mosquitoes, man. Well, we're very fortunate we don't have malaria here in the United States.

[823] Yep, absolutely.

[824] Because if it made its way over here somehow.

[825] You know, I wear this fabric you're talking about thermosel called Hex.

[826] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[827] HECCS.

[828] HECS.

[829] HECS.

[830] HECS.

[831] HECS.

[832] HECS.

[833] Exactly, and I wear it for a lot of reasons because I definitely feel it helps me get closer to wildlife, but I've noticed mosquitoes do not like it.

[834] Really?

[835] So that's one of my cover -ups.

[836] Explain what a heck suit is for people that don't know what we're talking about.

[837] Sure.

[838] So it's this interwoven carbon grid that actually holds the body's electrical energy and capacity, like the door of microwave oven, like a Faraday cage, right?

[839] And so you naturally emit electrical energy.

[840] And then when you wear this clothing, it's got this conductive carbon grid.

[841] and when you touch the ground or something, it grounds it and releases all the energy.

[842] So, birds migrate using...

[843] Yeah, there you go.

[844] Now, has it been proven that this stuff actually...

[845] I mean, it has been proven that it has an effect on the electrical energy that you release, but has it been proven that the animals can actually recognize that electrical energy?

[846] With certain animals, yes.

[847] So we know electroreception is...

[848] Certain wildlife is capable of it.

[849] Birds use it to migrate.

[850] Sea turtles use magnetic poles to migrate.

[851] They just discovered, I believe, 2014, that lobster's antenna have electrical...

[852] detective sensors, electroreception is the word.

[853] So it's proven on some things, not everything.

[854] You know, our understanding of animal behavior and animal adaptability is constantly growing.

[855] So it's passive, you know what I mean?

[856] I wear it because it's a passive technology.

[857] It's like, I'm going to wear a shirt anyway.

[858] Why not wear one that might or might not help?

[859] So I feel it helps.

[860] My friend John Dudley is a bow hunter.

[861] Yep.

[862] A pretty famous bow hunter.

[863] I know John, yeah.

[864] Okay.

[865] And he swear his.

[866] it.

[867] Yeah.

[868] He wears them constantly.

[869] He's like, it makes a big difference.

[870] I think so.

[871] You know, like, I'm, I'm not hunting.

[872] I'm just trying to get close to stuff and interact with it or find something, but I feel it makes a difference.

[873] You notice a difference personally?

[874] Especially with birds.

[875] I've noticed a huge difference.

[876] I've noticed a huge difference in the water.

[877] Some mammals, I've noticed a difference.

[878] But yeah, I like John, I feel like it's, it helps me get closer and, you know, it keeps the energy down.

[879] Do you know what I mean?

[880] Like, you're emitting all this energy, you see this bear or whatever it is, your heart spikes, your adrenaline goes, and it keeps that in capacity.

[881] So I think we sense that.

[882] I think certain creatures sense that, and I like to keep that out of the equation.

[883] Right.

[884] I guess it would be that there is something coming off of your body, and it probably would be an advantage for animals to be able to recognize that, just because we can't quantify it and put it on a scale or weigh it or something like that, it's probably something going on.

[885] Predator prey, right?

[886] Like, if you're a lion and I'm an antelope, and And my adrenaline spikes and my heart's going and, you know, you're going to come for me, right?

[887] But if that's out of the equation, the energy stays reduced.

[888] Well, that's one of the weirder videos, some of the weirder videos that I've seen, I should say, is people that are interacting with predators, like people that have, like, coyotes come right up to them while they're wearing those things.

[889] Yep, yep.

[890] And turkeys as well.

[891] Totally.

[892] Like I said, birds.

[893] Because birds have that in their brain.

[894] They have, I'm going to quote it wrong, but they have something that they can detect electrical signals of what helps them migrate around the world.

[895] So for sure, I think it makes a difference.

[896] Yeah.

[897] So what else do you use?

[898] You use the hex suit?

[899] A ton of different tools, man. I mean, I customized stuff.

[900] You know, like in the Amazon, we were looking for Cayman and type of crocodile.

[901] So I built like a beefed up dog catcher that I used to try and lassoothe them.

[902] I have a snake hook on me at all times.

[903] A snake hook?

[904] Yeah.

[905] What's a snake hook?

[906] So it's just this like, it's like a golf club with a hook on the end.

[907] So I can work with venomous snakes without it reaching back and grabbing me. It doesn't restrain them.

[908] It It actually, like, their body sits in it.

[909] I do a lot of reptile stuff.

[910] So, um, always have a snake hook on me. I mean, the list goes on.

[911] A ton of trail cameras.

[912] I use a lot of thermal imaging stuff, like, um, especially like looking for wolves or something like that.

[913] Uh, we, you know, wolves are active at night.

[914] It's really hard to get a shot of them.

[915] Put a thermal bird in the air.

[916] And you can see these, these animals running through valleys.

[917] Wow.

[918] Yeah.

[919] It's cool stuff.

[920] You'd love it.

[921] Well, I'm fascinated by wolves.

[922] I think, uh, wolves to me are probably, the most interesting animal in the wild.

[923] Canids, man. Wild dogs of all kind are unbelievable.

[924] They're so at the top of their respective food chain.

[925] Yeah, we have a lot of coyotes around here, and basically they're little wolves, the little sneaky wolves.

[926] But real wolves, like wolves in Yellowstone, and wolves in the northwest area of the United States, they have got to be some of the most majestic animals.

[927] Oh, they're fantastic.

[928] They operate together, always, as these packs.

[929] Yep.

[930] You know, so there's some sort of weird kind of communication and...

[931] And what's amazing is, like, the social dynamic, like, within the pack, you know, the hierarchy, and then on a hunt, like, you go left, I go right, but without any verbal communication.

[932] Right, right.

[933] And then coming together and making a kill, I mean, it's mind -blowing stuff.

[934] You know, you talk about not understanding wildlife, we don't understand how they do that.

[935] Right, right.

[936] We don't understand what kind of communication is going on.

[937] Do you think there's some sort of, like, telepaths?

[938] or is it just facial and recognizing cues and patterns that they've established before of they see an animal, they know to flank it?

[939] I definitely believe it's that.

[940] Like, I definitely believe there is an intrinsic understanding of you go left, I go right, you know, facial recognition, you know, your expression tells me to do something, you're dominant, I'm passive, you know, learning that way.

[941] But I also think there's something more than that.

[942] Whether it's telepathic, whether it's a low frequency sound that is not audible to us, I have no idea.

[943] But I do think it's more than just visual cues.

[944] That's where apparently the myth of the werewolf comes from.

[945] was that wolves are so smart.

[946] They think that a wolf and a person were like combined together.

[947] I don't believe that per se, but I can see how that came up.

[948] You know what I mean?

[949] It's totally, they're so smart.

[950] African wild dogs are the same.

[951] Like they hunt in these huge packs.

[952] They go over these massive areas and then they'll push a single animal into one area to make the kill.

[953] And they're not big animals.

[954] They're, again, like a coyote size.

[955] And they'll take down, you know, a kudu or some huge antelope.

[956] I mean, it's incredible.

[957] Well, African wild dogs are so cool.

[958] looking too with those black spots and yellow and all the stunning they just they look angry they look freaky looking you know there's I I think they're they're my favorite of the can like you love wolves I love African wild dogs I just think they're so beautiful and majestic and unusual and they're just such a cool animal correct me if I'm wrong but I think all of them come from the United States I think all of them originally came from North America like I think canids yeah all canids came from North America I think that's Coyote America the General someone who's been on the podcast before.

[959] What is his name?

[960] Is escaping me right now?

[961] But he wrote about it.

[962] Huh.

[963] About, you know, all the various, were the jackals?

[964] Dan Flores.

[965] Dan Flores.

[966] That's it.

[967] That is a fascinating book.

[968] Yeah, I'm going to write it down.

[969] I'd love to read it.

[970] Great.

[971] And I did a podcast with him years ago that's excellent, too.

[972] And he has all sorts of crazy insight as to Native American, North American animals that went somewhere else.

[973] like horses like horses were native to North America but they weren't here when the European settlers came they went extinct they had been taken they were other places like apparently wild horses from Europe all originated from North America and were taken over and then somehow or another from whatever and then went extinct here and then were reintroduced with the European settlers huh that's interesting crazy and that's the thing like with what I do looking for extinct animals are proof that they're still out there is like there are so many stories like that i didn't know that one in specific america's very well covered with eyeballs but what's to say there isn't some remnant small population somewhere in the middle of nowhere that nobody has found these horses that have been untouched by human beings for millennia right and that's that's what i that's what i do that's what drives me right find this pocket find this animal that's been hiding out undetected for thousands of years.

[974] Yeah.

[975] So what other animals are you looking for?

[976] A lot.

[977] Like we're talking about primates.

[978] I'm going to Borneo to look for an animal called the Miller's Grizzled Languure.

[979] It's a type of monkey.

[980] I just got back, I was looking for an extinct Cayman in the Amazon.

[981] An extinct Cayman.

[982] Yeah.

[983] What's the difference between that and the camels that you see?

[984] Just a different species, you know, just like there's many types of crocodile, there's many types of Cayman.

[985] You know, you have saltwater crocodiles, now crocodile.

[986] Same thing with Cayman.

[987] And I was looking for one with a very weird morphological variant.

[988] It looks very, very different to any other.

[989] What's different about it?

[990] It's got a very elongated snout.

[991] If you've ever seen a garial, if you know what, that is a type of crocodile with this long, crazy nose.

[992] It's like the alligator family, the Cayman family version of that, this really long skinny face, super light, super yellow coloration, just very different.

[993] Last time one was seen was 52 years ago, and then they had one in a zoo that died in the 80s, and nobody's found one since.

[994] So just really cool.

[995] And so yeah, The list goes on.

[996] You know, last year I did leopards and I did wolves in Newfoundland and a bunch of really interesting stuff.

[997] So it's fun, man. You love it.

[998] You should come with.

[999] I'll talk to animal planning.

[1000] I'm scared.

[1001] I'm such a pussy.

[1002] What about giant sloths?

[1003] What are your feelings on those?

[1004] So I've had probably three years of research into this, into giant sloths, because manna puguri, I believe is how it said.

[1005] It's the South American name for giant sloths.

[1006] I don't want to give away too much info before I get to do a chance at looking for it.

[1007] But after all the research I've compiled, there is, in my opinion, one location on Earth.

[1008] It's in High Peru, where nobody goes.

[1009] It's a bowl of mountains, impenetrable.

[1010] The only way in is a helicopter in the center.

[1011] To me, that ball is going to be like a primordial Eden.

[1012] All of the cultures surrounding it have old stories of giant slots.

[1013] They all have different names for it, but they all have these stories of these giant slots.

[1014] sloths, right?

[1015] They were all hunted to extinction.

[1016] However, they've handed down these traditions, but nobody except for, you know, a tiny handful of, like, far out tribal people have ever really got into this impenetrable bowl.

[1017] And I think if they're anywhere, they're in there.

[1018] Wow.

[1019] I saw a documentary once about this scientist that was essentially risking his reputation trying to find a giant sloth somewhere, maybe in the Amazon, somewhere.

[1020] Probably Peruvian Amazon.

[1021] That's where I'm thinking too.

[1022] And he kept talking to people that had seen it, and he never could get a hold of it, but he'd been there for years.

[1023] Isn't that crazy, though?

[1024] Like, why?

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] What, if you're a little Amazonian villager, you don't read, you don't have TV, there's no reason to make up scientific, you know, science fiction, why say you've seen it?

[1027] Because you like to fuck with white people.

[1028] Could be, could be.

[1029] Like, get that dude with a stringy hair.

[1030] Hey, man, yeah, I've seen that thing.

[1031] Oh, dinosaurs, fuck yeah, come out, take you.

[1032] Five days in, you know, you're exhausted, covered with mosquito bites.

[1033] He's like, any day now.

[1034] Yeah, yeah, just over the next hill.

[1035] He's just going to wait for you to fucking rot out.

[1036] That would be a mean man. That's a mean guy.

[1037] That's a mean guy.

[1038] Leave you on a log.

[1039] All right, buddy, pat you on the back.

[1040] This is the last spot for you.

[1041] And I'll be taking this, yeah.

[1042] I'll take your binoculars.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] I mean, yeah, there's no reason for them to lie, but that doesn't...

[1045] That's like the thing that people say about everything.

[1046] Why would turn lie?

[1047] Well, I don't know.

[1048] People lie for a bunch of weird reasons.

[1049] People do it.

[1050] People are crazy.

[1051] shit up.

[1052] True.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] I mean, to me, it's like you have to take an eyewitness report of an extinct creature or a zoot, crypto creature with a grain of salt.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] But you still have to take it.

[1058] Do you know what I mean?

[1059] You still have to bank it and consider it.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] And so that's kind of the way I go.

[1062] I always talk to people, but then I come up with, I do the biology, right?

[1063] I track.

[1064] I put the cameras out.

[1065] I bait.

[1066] I sent.

[1067] I do all of that stuff to try and get evidence of my own, because just going with eyewitness reports is, like you say, it's nothing.

[1068] Is there ever been any eyewitness reports that are just too ridiculous?

[1069] Oh, for sure.

[1070] Like what?

[1071] Oh, man, loads.

[1072] I mean, like, I'm talking about the thylacine, for instance.

[1073] There was a guy that we met there who's like, yeah, yeah, there's thylacine everywhere.

[1074] They run around with the black cats.

[1075] And we're like, what?

[1076] He's like, yeah, there's Black Panthers, too.

[1077] They, like, hang out together.

[1078] Black Panthers in Australia?

[1079] Exactly.

[1080] I made the same face you did.

[1081] So I'm like, okay, tell me more.

[1082] And he's like, yeah, you know, they like, they hang out over there.

[1083] They're behind the trash heap.

[1084] They jump around with Black Panthers.

[1085] Oh, they're just fucking with you.

[1086] And I'm like, well, that's the thing.

[1087] I'm like, you're just, you're either crazy or you're completely fucking with me. And I'm not sure which one it is because your eyes are telling me crazy.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] Well, I mean, how many different pockets in the world are there like that basin that you said you've got to get helicoptered into?

[1090] There's a few.

[1091] There's a few.

[1092] Yeah, you'd be surprised because, you know, we're here, we're in a city.

[1093] We're so used to our modern conveniences.

[1094] but there are totally untouched pieces of the world still.

[1095] Well, do you know David Cho, the artist?

[1096] I don't.

[1097] He went to the Congo, I think it was the Congo, to look for a dinosaur.

[1098] No way.

[1099] It was a really early vice piece back when Vice was first starting out.

[1100] And David is one of the more eccentric people that I know.

[1101] He's a multimillionaire.

[1102] He made a shitload of money gambling.

[1103] And also, he made a shitload of money because he, was it Facebook?

[1104] painted, yeah, he painted Facebook.

[1105] What does that mean?

[1106] Like the wall?

[1107] Yeah, the inside.

[1108] They hired him to paint, like, do these murals, and they gave him stock.

[1109] And that stock wound up being worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

[1110] And so now he's just this freaky, super talented artist who is just doing weird shit.

[1111] And one of the things they did is like, hey, man, you want to go look for a dinosaur?

[1112] He's like, fuck yeah, I'll go.

[1113] Absolutely.

[1114] Why wouldn't you?

[1115] You know?

[1116] But there's this video of him.

[1117] I want to say he was like 25 at the time, too.

[1118] I think he was pretty young.

[1119] Yeah, look at him there.

[1120] Oh, yeah.

[1121] So he's in the jungle in search of a fucking dinosaur.

[1122] Huh.

[1123] Because, and it was one of those things where the locals were saying, hey, there's a dinosaur in the Congo.

[1124] Right.

[1125] Which doesn't totally make sense, but.

[1126] But who knows?

[1127] Right.

[1128] Why not investigate it kind of thing.

[1129] But, I mean, how big of an area would there have to be for there to be a species that we are not aware of?

[1130] Like, how big of an area?

[1131] Oh, I mean.

[1132] You know, that's, it's a generic question because we discover, you'd have to look up the numbers, but it's like 2 ,000 new species a year.

[1133] But little stuff?

[1134] But mostly little stuff.

[1135] There's an animal discovered, most recently there's an animal called the Sala.

[1136] It's an animal that I'm actually working on later this year.

[1137] And it is an antelope.

[1138] Like, they call it the Asian unicorn.

[1139] Because for generations, people have been talking about this Asian unicorn.

[1140] And Western world's like, yeah, whatever, whatever, whatever.

[1141] And then finally, somebody went down there into the Laotian Mountains and was like, here's, a skull and here's a skin.

[1142] And they're like, holy shit, this is a real thing.

[1143] And this is like in a pot, not populated, but there's plenty of people living there.

[1144] You know what I mean?

[1145] This isn't like, this isn't like the middle of nowhere.

[1146] This is where there's villages and tribes and people.

[1147] And they're like, here's this animal.

[1148] Here's a skin.

[1149] Here's a skull.

[1150] And since then, I think one trail camera has, the photo has ever surfaced.

[1151] Like, nobody's ever successfully documented it because it's just this incredibly elusive animal.

[1152] Like, whether it has super sensory organs, you know, hearing, sight, smell, whatever it is, or it's just super low density and population, nobody really knows.

[1153] But this animal, this huge, like, antelope has been around forever.

[1154] People, little tribal people have been talking about it in like a mythological way, the same way they would talk about dinosaurs in the Congo, and the Western world's going, sure, buddy, whatever you say, and then somebody finally goes down there, does an expedition just like David did and goes, oh, it turns out it's here.

[1155] Wow.

[1156] What is it about, animals where we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be real or that might be hidden.

[1157] Like what is it about them?

[1158] I mean people love to study giraffes and things that are absolutely real, but they also have an even more compelling need to search for things that are not quite sure, they're not quite sure if they exist or not.

[1159] I don't know, man. I think it's like, it's human nature to want to know more, right?

[1160] Like we, of course, like not everybody you see a giraffe, you're like, it's real, I know it, banked it, right?

[1161] Some people go to the extreme, they study every aspect of it.

[1162] But as a general populace, I feel like once we know something's there, we want to know what the next thing is.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] I mean, what do you think?

[1165] Like, why is it that we're so fascinated with it?

[1166] I don't know the answer.

[1167] I think it's probably a side effect of our compulsion for innovation.

[1168] Like, human beings are constantly trying to find out new secrets and find out, you know, like find out new discoveries and invent new things and explore new worlds.

[1169] I mean, this is just something that's been a part of human nature forever, this desire to improve.

[1170] Right.

[1171] And to go further, find the next best spot, find the new thing, you know.

[1172] And then I think that also works with animals.

[1173] I think we have this desire to find animals that we didn't know are real or weren't sure or real.

[1174] Well, knowledge is the foundation of that, right?

[1175] To go to a new planet, we have to have the knowledge of how to get there, right?

[1176] to go to a new habitat, we have to know what's there.

[1177] And I think maybe that's kind of that deep -rooted desire is like we need to know about this thing in order to understand if we can innovate off of it.

[1178] Yeah, maybe.

[1179] Yeah.

[1180] What did you think when they found that Flores man in Indonesia?

[1181] It's amazing.

[1182] Like, I'm not an anthropologist, so, you know, that's not quite.

[1183] Has that been 100 % agreed upon?

[1184] I've only seen kind of headlines.

[1185] I'd have to defer to you guys.

[1186] I think there was one, there was some scientist that was disputing, but essentially they were talking about a three -foot -tall, Hobbit -like man, kind of thing.

[1187] Cave -dwelling, yeah, that little person, yeah.

[1188] Existed alongside human beings as recently as like 14 ,000 years ago.

[1189] Right, right.

[1190] Which is like, what?

[1191] I think it's completely believable.

[1192] I mean, the Khoisan people in the Saharan desert are tiny.

[1193] You know, they're, like, four feet.

[1194] And until the, you might have to double check this, but I believe until the 70s, people used to go in, hunt them.

[1195] Maybe it was earlier.

[1196] It was 60s or 50s.

[1197] But you could go and hunt this primitive -sized human being as like a, you know, as like a hunt, like an old Englishman with his big mustache and his musket would go hunt these people.

[1198] Whoa.

[1199] And now we have an understanding that, you know, they're people like, you can't fucking go and hunt them.

[1200] But like, what's to say there weren't tribes like that all over the world that other people used to hunt that drove to extinction.

[1201] Jesus Christ.

[1202] Right.

[1203] Say the name of it again.

[1204] So, Jamie, you got it?

[1205] Coisan, yeah.

[1206] Let me see what these people look like.

[1207] In my opinion, they're beautiful.

[1208] Like, you'll see what you think.

[1209] But they're very small, their desert dwell.

[1210] You know, there's not a lot of resources in the desert, so you don't get huge.

[1211] So they're perfectly adapted to the desert life.

[1212] They really used to hunt them?

[1213] Yeah.

[1214] And they look just like people?

[1215] I mean, you'll have.

[1216] But they're still around.

[1217] Like, these aren't an extinct race.

[1218] They're still there.

[1219] Oh, wow.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] Have you ever seen the gods must be crazy?

[1222] Yes.

[1223] Yeah.

[1224] It's like those people.

[1225] Those were kind of taller Khoisan, but those are Bushmen.

[1226] Wow.

[1227] So who are these people that used to hunt these?

[1228] Like I say, I kid you not.

[1229] It was like the old English explorer would go and conquer Africa and hunt these people like they were an animal, you know?

[1230] Fuck.

[1231] Crazy, right?

[1232] And this was until the 1970s?

[1233] That might not be right.

[1234] That sounds too recent, doesn't it?

[1235] God damn, that sounds horrific.

[1236] Yeah, you might need to check that, but it was not as long ago as you'd think.

[1237] You know what I mean?

[1238] it was like very recently they were still under hunting and their people yeah Jesus Christ yeah so that that's probably what happened to a lot of the non -homosapian human type people I would think so and even if it's not like for sport it's for competition or resources or you know what any reason yeah and that's that's human nature conquer yeah fuck man that is so dark right they would go and hunt small people with a rifle.

[1239] You know, are there photos of people, like, posing with the dead ones?

[1240] Again, I'm not an anthropologist, I'm not sure.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] It's brutal.

[1243] So what other pockets of the world are, like, mostly unexplored, or could perhaps contain some of these animals?

[1244] South America, for sure, Central Africa, for sure.

[1245] There's some very remote parts of, like, Russian Arctic, Norwegian Arctic.

[1246] There's areas in Asia that are still unexplored, believe it or not, regardless they're populace.

[1247] There really are.

[1248] Deep, deep China, there's some very unexplored areas.

[1249] Northern Myanmar, ecological hot spot, nobody goes there.

[1250] Very impenetrable.

[1251] I read something about sort of some part of the world where they thought pteradactyls might still exist.

[1252] There's so many of those things.

[1253] I don't know that one specifically.

[1254] There's, especially doing what I do, I hear them all the time, right?

[1255] Oh, you got to go look for bigfoots or teradactyls or whatever.

[1256] mammoths it's could there be a large reptile that perhaps flies sure it's possible is there a teradactyl as we know it I highly highly doubt it but a large reptile that could fly would be a fucking trip they were around right so do you think it would be something that we don't know about like yeah basically I think there's enough pieces of this world that are unexplored that there are still megafauna to be discovered not a lot not a lot by any means and I might get ridiculed as I go back to my scientific community for saying this, but my belief is there are these isolated pockets where small populations of megafauna still exist that we don't know about.

[1257] Whoa.

[1258] Well, South America is, I mean, how much of South America is actually populated?

[1259] I mean, you look at the size of the Amazon jungle or something, and it's, it's, sure, there's communities and stuff, but not that much.

[1260] I mean, it's, there are, Australia, you know, if you're not on the coast, there's nothing.

[1261] Right.

[1262] You know, there's all these huge chunks, Papua New Guinea, same thing.

[1263] Nobody goes up into the highlands there.

[1264] They just found a dog there, as you saw.

[1265] I mean, there's crazy stuff.

[1266] Now, what do you think about these guys that are talking about bringing animals back?

[1267] Like, as a scientist.

[1268] Deextinction is.

[1269] It's a weird word.

[1270] It's a weird word.

[1271] Introduction.

[1272] Is that a better word?

[1273] They call it de extinction.

[1274] Is that what they call it?

[1275] Yeah, de extinction is, to me, it's fascinating.

[1276] Especially if it's something like, say, the passenger pigeon.

[1277] right we used to have billions of them in the united states wiped them out um and now they're saying you know we can take the closest living relative uh isolate some genes and make a new passenger pigeon is that worth it because it's something we wiped out in the last hundred years yes i feel like that's we should heal the ecosystem by putting that back right that being said we still need to learn from our mistakes like we need to take into account what we did and why we did it and like do I think there should be a Jurassic Park and a bunch of mammoths and T -Rexes?

[1278] Absolutely not.

[1279] That's a waste.

[1280] Whether we can or cannot do it, to me, that's a waste of scientific resources that could go towards conserving things that are on the brink.

[1281] Now, when you say, like, heal or mend the environment or the ecosystem, when you would bring back something like a passenger pigeon, isn't like 90 % of everything that ever existed extinct?

[1282] Sure, absolutely.

[1283] So does the ecosystem adjust and evolve and would reintroducing something like a passenger pigeon would it kind of fuck things up that exist now where new animals have taken a different position on the hierarchy?

[1284] It's too short and evolutionary time.

[1285] So we're in what's called the sixth mass extinction event, right?

[1286] There's been five others before us.

[1287] The one we're in now, it's happening at 80 % greater rate than it's ever happened before.

[1288] So we are wiping out things more quickly than the world can adapt.

[1289] So, you know, you go into an environment and you take out all the apex predators, the prey explodes.

[1290] The prey explodes, the grass gets eaten down.

[1291] Everything collapses.

[1292] Now, if you left that environment over time, over evolutionary time, it would adapt, right?

[1293] Maybe say all of the predators got a disease and they died out over 300 generations.

[1294] During that time, something would evolve within the environment to adapt the prey so that it didn't wipe out the environment.

[1295] That's just kind of the nature's balance.

[1296] But when you go in there and do it in 10 years or 5 years, it throws off the equilibrium.

[1297] So when you, in theory, when you reintroduce something that's been, and it's not theory, it's science.

[1298] They've shown this, even right here in the California Channel Islands, when you put something back that's missing from the ecosystem, it's like you're putting a piece of the puzzle back, right?

[1299] And then you can allow it to do its thing over evolutionary time.

[1300] What did they do in the Channel Islands?

[1301] So I was actually a big part of that, and I loved the project.

[1302] So the California Channel Islands were settled by agriculture.

[1303] There were sheep, goats, pigs, blah, blah, blah.

[1304] There was everything brought over there, right?

[1305] And so not Catalina, but think about the northern Channel Islands.

[1306] What happened was when all these animals were brought in, all the farmers were there, then Golden Eagles started coming over.

[1307] Golden Eagles came over to eat the pigs and everything else.

[1308] They flew across the ocean?

[1309] Yep, flew across the channel, started preying on pigs and everything else.

[1310] There was an animal on the Channel Islands called the Channel Island Fox, a very gorgeous, cute, cuddly little fox.

[1311] You can see them if you go to Santa Cruz Island.

[1312] There's loads of them now, thanks to the work that scientists have done.

[1313] Anyway, they were like, okay, the first.

[1314] fox is being, there it is, isn't he gorgeous?

[1315] Look, look, a little cute face.

[1316] So the fox is being wiped out through habitat destruction through all these undulates that have been brought in.

[1317] So scientists got together and said...

[1318] What, undulets?

[1319] Like cows?

[1320] Yeah, domestic animals.

[1321] Cows, sheep, goats, etc. So scientists came in and said, you know, the habitat's getting destroyed.

[1322] And that's just the keystone.

[1323] There were several species that were on the decline.

[1324] The cows are getting, the livestock is wiping out the habitat, the foxes are declining.

[1325] What do we do?

[1326] Well, obviously answer, let's remove all the livestock.

[1327] So we removed all the livestock, right?

[1328] Through helicopters, there was a lot of pigs that were causing damage, all that kind of stuff.

[1329] We removed it all.

[1330] Then the golden eagles started preying on the foxes because their main habitat was gone.

[1331] So now the foxes are under even more pressure.

[1332] So then we remove the golden eagles.

[1333] This is a very abridged version of what happened.

[1334] But now we've got the golden eagles also pushed out the bald eagle, which are fish eaters, which lived on the island.

[1335] So now after loads of years of removing golden eagles, like relocating them, removing all of the livestock, now you have a healthy population of Channel Island foxes, the bald eagles are back, they're eating fish, the whole ecosystem is back in balance.

[1336] Had it been left the way it was, what you would have found at the California Channel Islands over, say, 20 or 30 more years, 40 or 50 more years, no foxes, no, no bald eagles, a ton of golden eagles and a ton of pigs, and likely over time, pigs would have exploded to the point that they Easter Islanded themselves, right?

[1337] They ate up all the resources, destroyed all the habitat, population collapsed, golden eagles collapsed, nothing left on the islands.

[1338] What do you mean by Easter Island themselves?

[1339] So you're familiar with Easter Island in South America?

[1340] I know what those statues are and all that stuff, but I'm not familiar with what happened to the island.

[1341] So that island was an ancient civilization that was the Mecca.

[1342] It had everything.

[1343] Offland.

[1344] It had big trees, tons of food, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1345] People settled there, and they said this place is incredible.

[1346] It's paradisiical.

[1347] And then they started cutting down the trees to fish.

[1348] They started eating all the mammals.

[1349] And what actually happened is because they were so remote, the middle of the ocean, nowhere near South America, nowhere near anywhere else, they cut down the last tree.

[1350] There were no more canoes.

[1351] There was no more food on the island, and the population collapsed.

[1352] The island was barren.

[1353] It was void of trees, void of life, void of anything, and they didn't have the canoes or anything to leave anymore, because they cut down the last tree to build a boat or make firewood, and everybody there died.

[1354] Oh, shit.

[1355] So that's what happens when you use up every last resource.

[1356] God.

[1357] So, wow, when did this happen?

[1358] I couldn't tell you.

[1359] Because I thought it was like a mystery to, like, what happened to the population of the Easter Island.

[1360] So they're pretty sure that this happened.

[1361] That's the scientifically accepted understanding.

[1362] And did they get this from fossils?

[1363] They get this from bones.

[1364] And so they've sort of pieced it together.

[1365] Yep.

[1366] They take, you know, isotope samples and measure carbon data and yada, yada.

[1367] I think the heads are still a pretty big mystery.

[1368] Why?

[1369] I think certain people believe that the heads were like an ail, you know, calling to the gods to help save things because they were going so badly, yada, but I believe the heads are still a pretty big mystery.

[1370] but the actual anthropology, the population, the collapse, is known to be due to running out of resources.

[1371] How long did it go for?

[1372] Couldn't tell you.

[1373] Do they have an idea of how long the population lasted?

[1374] I think it's all published.

[1375] Yeah, I don't know off the top of my head.

[1376] But it was a thriving population that, you know, flew too close to the sun, as they say.

[1377] Because of Easter Island's small size, only 63 square miles, it quickly became overpopulated and its resources were rapidly depleted when Europeans arrived on Easter Island between the late, 1700s in the early 1800s, it was reported that the moai were knocked down and the island seemed to, did I say that right?

[1378] Moai?

[1379] You don't know?

[1380] Knocked down and the island seemed to have been a recent war site.

[1381] Hmm.

[1382] Lack of supplies.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] See the next one there?

[1385] Constant warfare between the tribes, lack of supplies and resources, disease, invasive species, and the opening of the island to foreign slave trade eventually led to Easter Island's collapse by the 18th.

[1386] 1960s.

[1387] Wow.

[1388] So it didn't hang long.

[1389] 1700s to the 1860s.

[1390] That was a wrap.

[1391] Wow.

[1392] It was annexed by Chile.

[1393] And so they've never tried to repopulate the island with trees or anything else and they just kind of leave it alone.

[1394] I believe so.

[1395] I know you can go there and visit it and see the heads.

[1396] And I think there are some things there now, but it's it's barren.

[1397] There are no trees.

[1398] There's no, you know, it's all been depleted.

[1399] It's so crazy when they introduce animals to an island and it winds up fucking everything up, like Galapagos Island.

[1400] You know, and I'm sure you're familiar with the Judas goats.

[1401] Judas goats?

[1402] Are those the ones in the Galapagos?

[1403] Do you know how they do that?

[1404] I don't.

[1405] How they eradicate goats?

[1406] It's really interesting.

[1407] Not from the helicopters?

[1408] Yeah, well, this is how they do it.

[1409] They cast...

[1410] Goats like to hang out together, right?

[1411] But it's sometimes hard to locate them.

[1412] Sure.

[1413] So they put a radio collar on one goat.

[1414] They castrate it, and then they let it loose.

[1415] And they gun down all the goats around it and let that goat go find the rest of the goats.

[1416] No way.

[1417] And he goes and finds the rest of the goats, then they gun down those goats because they have the radio collar.

[1418] Yeah, so these, what is this, Jamie?

[1419] It's a picture of a judas goat, I guess.

[1420] He's just white.

[1421] Wow, that's what I'm, hey.

[1422] Maybe.

[1423] Looked it up.

[1424] There's a couple other pictures.

[1425] How sad is that single goat's life?

[1426] He's like, new friends.

[1427] What the fuck?

[1428] Yeah.

[1429] Helicopuses.

[1430] So I'm actually heading there on Monday to the glove goes.

[1431] They make you take your shoes off, right?

[1432] Scrub to make sure that you don't have weird seeds in the bottom of your shoes.

[1433] I have to stop eating seeds, quarantine for 48 hours when we arrive.

[1434] Stop eating seeds so you don't shit it out.

[1435] Exactly.

[1436] Wow.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] Quarantine for 48 hours.

[1439] Yep.

[1440] Why is there so much concerned about this one area?

[1441] I mean, it's the dawn of evolution.

[1442] You know, it's where Darwin came up with a theory of evolution due to the finches.

[1443] It's, it has been destroyed in some aspects, and it's been, the habitat has been fixed in a lot of places.

[1444] There's been great conservation efforts, and personally, I love what they're doing because they're trying to keep it pristine.

[1445] You know, I think it's fantastic that there's a quarantine.

[1446] I think it's great that I'm not supposed to eat, see.

[1447] seeds for two weeks before going there.

[1448] And it's to keep it as perfect as it is.

[1449] Now, the island that I'm going to with my small team has, like, nobody ever stepped foot on it.

[1450] It's an active volcano.

[1451] It erupts every year.

[1452] It's this crazy, harsh environment.

[1453] We have to have a new pair of boots every day because it melts, melts, and shreds your boots just walking on it.

[1454] Whoa.

[1455] Yeah, it's been described as hell on earth, so I'm stoked.

[1456] Wow.

[1457] Now, what kind of protective gear do you have to wear other than your boots?

[1458] Just long -sleeved clothing.

[1459] How hot does it get?

[1460] So the guy was telling me, like 45 degrees Celsius so that's it's well over a hundred and yeah and that's you know we got to be careful about water and hiking and there's just there's a lot of elements but that's the thing is I'm looking for an animal nobody's seen in a very long amount of time so you got to go to these places nobody's going wow that's incredible you know it's it's interesting the idea of invasive species too right because like Hawaii is a good example yeah Hawaii there's been talk of getting rid of pigs yep and a lot of the natives are like, well, slow down because if they're, we hunt them, we eat them, and if they're invasive, then what are we?

[1461] Right, totally.

[1462] Because the pigs were here right around the same time the people were there, and we've existed together.

[1463] They need each other, and it's culture.

[1464] At that point, it's Polynesian culture to eat a fire -roasted pig and hunt your pig.

[1465] And so, it's a delicate balance.

[1466] Like, Hawaii's a perfect example.

[1467] There's monguese that were introduced that destroyed the birds, and there's turtles, there's frogs, there's all kinds of things that have been brought in there.

[1468] but none of those are culturally significant, whereas the pig, as you're saying, is a huge cultural significance.

[1469] So where is the balance?

[1470] Well, one of the best examples of that would be, like, Lanai, because Lanai has this insane population of Axis deer.

[1471] We go and bow hunt them there every year.

[1472] They're delicious and they're plentiful.

[1473] And it's one of the most really ethical hunts because you have to hunt them.

[1474] I mean, they're so overpopulated.

[1475] There's 20 ,000 of them on an island with 3 ,000 people.

[1476] Yep.

[1477] And have you ever been?

[1478] To Lanai I have Yeah I was diving there Spear fishing there Do you see all the Axis deer Everywhere It's bananas It's crazy And they're so beautiful With their spots And yeah They're amazing animal And you know I'm all for it Like hunting is a tool For conservation Absolutely Yeah but it's just bizarre That they did that Yeah They decided to let deer loose on an island With nothing to eat the deer But people Right And then when this is done There's like King Kamea Mayo Which is what year was at?

[1479] I couldn't say A long time ago Yeah Long time ago So back then they, I mean, I don't even know if they had guns.

[1480] I mean, how were they hunting these things back then?

[1481] Bows and spears, I would presume.

[1482] And they brought them over from Asia, right?

[1483] Yep, yep, they're from Asia.

[1484] Same thing with New Zealand, right?

[1485] There's Axis deer, there's all kinds of things, or not Axis, but red deer.

[1486] There's all kinds of things down there.

[1487] Yeah, and same thing.

[1488] They're all brought in for sport.

[1489] Yeah, New Zealand's a weird one, right?

[1490] So was Australia.

[1491] They brought a lot of stuff over there from Europe.

[1492] But New Zealand, specifically, they were trying to make it like a hunter's paradise, right?

[1493] And I think it is, right?

[1494] Tell me from wrong.

[1495] No, it is.

[1496] But it's a weird one because it's mostly high fence.

[1497] Dude, you're going to love this.

[1498] So, onto my extinct animal thing, they took moose into New Zealand.

[1499] They took like 10 of them, small population.

[1500] Believe that they've been hunted out.

[1501] You know, they shot the last one, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1502] There's one guy, crazy -looking dude, long hair, long beard, like nuts -looking guy.

[1503] And he's been on the hunt, not hunt -hunt, but like trying to prove that the New Zealand moose is still there.

[1504] He's found antler sheds.

[1505] He's found bedding sites.

[1506] Some guy even got a picture of one.

[1507] standing on a rock, and you know moose.

[1508] To me, it's 100 % of moose.

[1509] And so, in theory, somewhere down the South Island, there's one or two or three of these super elusive moose that have been in New Zealand for like 50 years.

[1510] Whoa.

[1511] Wow.

[1512] Well, New Zealand is so fucking rugged.

[1513] Yeah.

[1514] There's a friend of mine has been there, my friend Adam Green Tree, he's been there.

[1515] He lives in Australia, and he goes there to hunt tar, and, you know, they live on the steepest, the steepest, cragiest, shale where the rock's real slippery and it's just like cold as shit and really high altitude and you've seen them before right yeah yeah i have it looks like a science fiction animal they're as as me and my friend my me and the guys i work with like to say stranger than fiction you look at it and you're like that's not a real creature like some kid drew that yeah like a big old shaggy weird looking thing this is the area where they think they are in new zealand the moose yeah did you see that picture of the one on the rock like sticking out that's right Yeah, tell me that's not a moose.

[1516] That's the last one that was last picture taken.

[1517] Oh, there's 1952.

[1518] There's a recent one, though.

[1519] There's one from like two or three years ago, and I looked at it and I'm like, that's a moose.

[1520] Like, I don't know who's saying it's not, but it's a moose.

[1521] Wow.

[1522] Yeah.

[1523] From 1952.

[1524] Mm -hmm.

[1525] Yeah, that's 100 % of moose.

[1526] Right.

[1527] But again, how weird is it?

[1528] That there's animals that you know are there, and then there's animals like, we must find this.

[1529] So they spend incredible amounts of time and all these resources.

[1530] Is that it?

[1531] That's one.

[1532] Yeah, that's a hundred.

[1533] 100 % of moose.

[1534] That's a freaking moose.

[1535] That's no doubt about it.

[1536] See?

[1537] That's what I'm saying.

[1538] God damn it, people.

[1539] Yeah, that doesn't even make sense that anybody would argue that.

[1540] Right.

[1541] That's a pretty clear picture.

[1542] But that's not proof because they need genetic material.

[1543] They need fur.

[1544] They need something.

[1545] What do they think that is?

[1546] A cloud?

[1547] Exactly.

[1548] A rubber moose that someone's stuck there to goof on people?

[1549] Are they like arguing that somebody could have computer generated it?

[1550] Yeah.

[1551] All those, you know, all those.

[1552] And I appreciate it, right?

[1553] As a scientist, I appreciate the fact that you have to have proof.

[1554] Right.

[1555] But it does get to the point of ridiculousness.

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] Well, it's certainly possible.

[1558] I mean, it's certainly possible that they've, I mean, especially when you're looking at that insanely dense terrain.

[1559] Right.

[1560] You know?

[1561] Right.

[1562] But so, there are some efforts right now to try to de -extinct some animals.

[1563] There are.

[1564] Thank you.

[1565] Yeah.

[1566] Give me that new word.

[1567] And, like, what is currently going on right now?

[1568] They're calling it the dawn of de -extinction.

[1569] And it's, it's a lot of very, very intelligent genetic scientists that are trying to isolate specific genes that are specific to the animals that have been extinct and putting them into extant animals, animals that are still here, to basically make this Frankenstein animal because it'll never be the animal that's gone, right?

[1570] It will look like it, it'll behave like it, it'll think like it, et cetera, but it will never actually be the animal that we've lost, at least not yet.

[1571] We don't have that technology.

[1572] Right now what we can do is isolate a genome, put it into an existing animal that gives birth to an animal that looks and acts very much like the extinct animal.

[1573] But it's some degree different because it's like a mammoth, for instance.

[1574] They would have to take some DNA from a mammoth that they would somehow or another get and introduce it to an embryo of an elephant.

[1575] And then the elephant would give birth to a very hairy, very large tusk, like these isolated genetic codes.

[1576] elephant.

[1577] And it would look like a mammoth.

[1578] It would act like a mammoth.

[1579] But the reality is, it's a shaggy elephant with big tusks.

[1580] Right.

[1581] So if you did like 23 and me on it, it would show, oh, it's mostly elephant, but it's a little bit of a mammoth.

[1582] Yeah.

[1583] I mean, if you think of a double helix, like a DNA strand, right?

[1584] You have these little bars in the middle of it.

[1585] So what they do is, this is a very crude way to explain it.

[1586] But they pull out a bar from an elephant and they put in a bar from a mammoth.

[1587] And then eventually you get this.

[1588] mammoth.

[1589] And so this would be with like gene editing tools, like CRISPR or something on those lines?

[1590] Exactly.

[1591] Wow.

[1592] And so how far away are they from doing this?

[1593] It's, I mean, it's been successfully done a couple of times.

[1594] They've, they've given birth to a couple animals that are very, very close to the extinct animal.

[1595] Most of the time, there's problems, right?

[1596] There's, it's infertile, it's, it has lung issues, whatever it is.

[1597] There's a couple different cases.

[1598] I'm not a geneticist.

[1599] I'm a wildlife biologist, so I don't really understand it.

[1600] But It's, they've done it.

[1601] They have successfully reproduced things that are gone, basically clone things, and then the animal hasn't made it to adulthood.

[1602] Man, that seems really, really like playing God, doesn't it?

[1603] It is.

[1604] It is absolutely like playing God.

[1605] So I feel like, I mean, are people doing it just because they can?

[1606] Is it one of those things?

[1607] Or is there like a real valid scientific reason for trying to reintroduce these animals or de -extinct them?

[1608] Well, the valid reason is to concern.

[1609] of the ecosystem, right, like we talked about.

[1610] But I think it goes back to what we were saying half an hour ago, which is, it's just that quest for knowledge that can we do it, the innovation, right?

[1611] Can we play God?

[1612] Can we fix it?

[1613] Can we take this thing that's gone and say, no, it's not.

[1614] Like, we have the tools to make it not gone.

[1615] Yeah, there was some article that I read where they were talking about reintroducing the mammoth to Siberia and that there would be some ecological benefit to reintroducing the mammoth because of the way they forage for food.

[1616] Sure.

[1617] They would have some sort of an effect on global warming.

[1618] Sure.

[1619] I mean, do you know about that?

[1620] I don't know about that specifically.

[1621] See you can find that, Jamie.

[1622] The reintroducing the mammoth to Siberia to benefit the environment.

[1623] Look, whether that's accurate or not, until you put mammoths on the ground, how do we actually know?

[1624] It's a great theory, and that's what science is, right?

[1625] It's coming up with hypotheses and then trying to prove them.

[1626] and it sounds cool.

[1627] Like, do I want to see a mammoth walking around Siberia?

[1628] Fuck, yeah.

[1629] But does that mean it's actually good for the world?

[1630] Hard to say.

[1631] Whoa.

[1632] Could bringing back mammoths help stop climate change?

[1633] Scientists say creating hybrids of extinct bees could fix the Arctic tundra and stop greenhouse gas emissions.

[1634] I don't understand that.

[1635] I find it hard to believe, to be honest.

[1636] Maybe it's just some scientist's clever way of sneaking it in because he wants to play God.

[1637] Like, yeah, yeah, we're going to fix everything.

[1638] Yeah, yeah, yeah, fucking use coal.

[1639] Who gives a shit?

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] We got mammoths.

[1642] We got mammoths.

[1643] Just give me the funding.

[1644] Give me the funding.

[1645] Exactly, man. Trying to make mammoths.

[1646] That's sadly very real.

[1647] Well, is it really?

[1648] Oh, yeah.

[1649] I mean, look, if you're a scientist, right?

[1650] Right.

[1651] You, Joe Rogan, is a scientist.

[1652] How are you going to make your career?

[1653] Are you going to make your career by raising money through being like, yeah, sure.

[1654] Like, I'll study cricket legs.

[1655] Or are you going to be like, look, give me the money to stop global warming by bringing back fucking mammoths?

[1656] Like, you know, like, you can make the outrageous claim if you think it's going to fund your research.

[1657] Right, that's how you make your bones, right?

[1658] And that's, that's one of the sad realities of some, certainly not all science.

[1659] Well, mammoths, too, are so iconic.

[1660] It's such a freaky animal to study.

[1661] You know, we had them here, California Channel Islands?

[1662] Yeah, I heard that.

[1663] Pigmy mammoths.

[1664] Yeah, how long ago was that?

[1665] I want to say pre -ice age.

[1666] Not actually sure.

[1667] But, I mean, still, can you imagine, like, you know, you're out fishing at Catalina and you look up and there's a pygmy mammoth on the cliff?

[1668] there's a there's so many mammoth tusks in alaska in particular there's a there's an instagram page we can i'll send it to you jamie um there's a a page where they go and uh look for them huh and uh they they they basically use like a high pressure hose and blow them out of the side of a hill is it like in ice or is it in like earth uh it's in earth yeah okay the Boneyard, Alaska is the Instagram page.

[1669] If you go to the Boneyard, Alaska, you'll see what I'm talking about.

[1670] It's fucking incredible.

[1671] I mean, they keep pulling these, they're using these hoses and cleaning off this dirt, and they're pulling these intact tusks.

[1672] That's insane.

[1673] Well, there must have been so many of them that died.

[1674] And they're preserved, I mean, whether it's mudslides or whatever, and they get preserved under these things.

[1675] There's this one pocket where they're all concentrated.

[1676] Well, apparently they find quite a bit of them.

[1677] That's nuts.

[1678] Yeah.

[1679] You need one of those in the studio.

[1680] Mammoth tusk?

[1681] Yeah, man. Yeah, I guess, but it seems like you shouldn't have it.

[1682] Right.

[1683] Oh, for sure.

[1684] It seems like...

[1685] It's like ivory.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] You don't want it at some rich asshole's house.

[1688] Totally.

[1689] What is that?

[1690] A skull?

[1691] A skull.

[1692] Oh, short face bear skull.

[1693] Holy fuck, man. That's a cool animal.

[1694] That's a cool animal.

[1695] Yeah, we've, uh, we've drooled over those fucking things many times on the podcast.

[1696] Um, see right there.

[1697] Um, see those tusses.

[1698] Oh, yeah.

[1699] Those are top of the top.

[1700] Yeah, bottom left.

[1701] Those are some tus that they pulled out.

[1702] That's nuts.

[1703] Yeah, and there's a ton of them, man. I mean, these guys are constantly doing this and pulling these things out.

[1704] So let me ask you, you're hiking through there, right?

[1705] You're on a hike or a hunt or whatever.

[1706] You stub your toe on one.

[1707] What do you do?

[1708] You dig it out and put it on your pack.

[1709] You leave it, take a picture.

[1710] What do you do?

[1711] I don't know what the rules are.

[1712] Like, if you're in certain places and you find an arrowhead, you're supposed to leave it.

[1713] But rules aside, like ethically, what do you do?

[1714] Well, it depends on how far away you are, right?

[1715] Sure.

[1716] That's a lot of weight That's fair That's fair I would say you mark a pin on a GPS And come back Because it's like It's something you want Right As a human being It's a treasure Like you found this incredible thing But ethically You probably shouldn't touch it You know what do you do Well these guys obviously know what they're doing Right For me I would I mean Look at that one Oh my god That's crazy It is huge Did they wrap it up with tape Is that what they did there It looks like all those Those metal Things to wind it together sort of maybe.

[1717] Oh, like to keep it from falling apart, maybe as they pull it out of the water, or the dirt, rather, if I was thinking of my best me, the best me would mark a pin and then alert some scientists and tell them where it is and leave it the fuck alone, don't be a greedy dick.

[1718] So what happens?

[1719] My worst me, I dig that bitch out and put it on my pack and not tell anybody and bring it back home.

[1720] I just don't know what the law is.

[1721] Sure.

[1722] And even beyond the law, like here's this gentleman right here is pulling this out.

[1723] Even if, you don't know what the law is what's what's right that's the question yeah right what's the right thing to do yeah there might not be a good law yet right but there might be a i mean there clearly is a finite number of these things of course there has to be and they're prehistoric now let me let me pose this to you so i know a guy he's a treasure hunter by trade very cool old guy australian guy lived in perth and uh for years he's like i know where this certain spanish ship went down long story short he finds it right digs up one single gold coin and and he's like, it's here, I know it's here.

[1724] It's a big spear fisherman, adventure guy, goes, spends tens of thousands of dollars, he's not a rich man, spends tens of thousands of dollars, gets all this excavator equipment, goes to this very remote area of northwestern Australia, pulls up something like $10 million worth of treasure, takes it home, legally declares it all, tells the government gets all confiscated.

[1725] They give him three or four pieces.

[1726] You can see his treasure in the museum in Perth.

[1727] Here's this guy who would have retired, been a wealthy man, you know, had his whole life taken care of because of this thing he was obsessed with and then found and then got the tools on his own dime to go and get it, declares it and has it confiscated.

[1728] Dude.

[1729] Well, that's weird because you find stuff in the ocean and they take it and people become billionaires, right?

[1730] They find Russian or Roman ships filled with gold coins.

[1731] Right.

[1732] But for whatever reason, like this was considered like historically valuable.

[1733] So it was taken for the museum, right?

[1734] And he got, yeah, a few coins and no money.

[1735] I got to look up the guy's name.

[1736] I know a similar story.

[1737] It's happened in America.

[1738] Okay.

[1739] The guy that went to hunt it got investors.

[1740] Right.

[1741] And when he got the gold, he just kept it.

[1742] When the investors asked for the money, he said, I don't know what you're talking about.

[1743] I lost it.

[1744] Or I don't know where I put it.

[1745] Or I don't know where it is.

[1746] So I think he's currently in jail under contempt of court.

[1747] Oh, geez.

[1748] Being asked, where is it?

[1749] And he said, I don't know.

[1750] He's taking a lie detector tests.

[1751] People think his kids have it or something like that But they have no idea where it is It's a crazy story Well that's a weird one too Because like what are you gonna do with it Right Like if people are staring at you They're like constantly look Where is it?

[1752] Where is it?

[1753] You're like, I don't have it They're gonna keep looking Like how much is it worth?

[1754] Millions I think each coin might be worth a million He might have something like 20 to 30 of them It's like a lot of money It's insane Well you gotta bring it to someone Who's gonna give you a piece You gotta bring it to someone But then you're gonna get caught Where'd you get the $5 million?

[1755] Exactly.

[1756] Oh, I found it.

[1757] Yeah, what do you do?

[1758] Well, it's interesting when things are historical, right?

[1759] You don't know, like, who, does it belong to a museum?

[1760] Does it belong to the person who finds it?

[1761] Right.

[1762] Like, what are the rules?

[1763] And are we making these rules up as we go along?

[1764] Yeah.

[1765] It's worth $20 million.

[1766] I found a story.

[1767] It's still in jail right now.

[1768] Wow.

[1769] Jailed Treasure Hunter ordered to pay nearly $20 million.

[1770] Tommy Thompson.

[1771] Tommy Thompson's out of the kind of guy.

[1772] that sounds like the kind of guy yeah what is that island there's one island that has um like this crazy hole in the ground that was made by pirates like captain cook or someone like there's a television show about it you know what i'm talking about the curse of oak island yes yeah yeah yeah it's up in canada right oak islands in Canada yes and they have some crazy hole in the ground right they're trying to figure out how to get into but there's all these weird little traps and yep that's exactly right yeah What do they think's in there?

[1773] Some astronomically valuable treasure, right?

[1774] And I believe the island's changed hands like seven or eight times because people trying to find it have gone broke, digging it up, excavating and exploring it.

[1775] And there's booby traps and all this crazy stuff.

[1776] Yeah, there's some sort of a method that they've devised where if you go deep enough, it just fills up with water.

[1777] So you can never get to the actual treasure itself.

[1778] Right.

[1779] So the people who put the treasure there might have fucked themselves.

[1780] Like, we're assuming they're so smart.

[1781] That they buried the treasure in a way that nobody could ever get it out, but they might have just buried it in a way that they couldn't even get it out.

[1782] I think that's the case.

[1783] I think it's one of those like, oh, we're going to keep it here and then they couldn't get it.

[1784] I mean, who knows?

[1785] But, yeah, what a crazy story.

[1786] Yeah.

[1787] So, do they know who did it?

[1788] I'm not sure.

[1789] See if you can find something on that.

[1790] Oak Island.

[1791] So that television show is, it's just like, they're just like going, well, now what, right?

[1792] I think they're just digging and trying.

[1793] So you can't suck all the water out, right?

[1794] Because he's getting water from the ocean.

[1795] Well, it's sub -sea level.

[1796] So, yeah, it's just, you know.

[1797] Constantly filling up.

[1798] So unless you go down there with a submarine.

[1799] I think they've put divers in it.

[1800] They've had metal detectors.

[1801] I don't really know.

[1802] I'm not super familiar with the show.

[1803] I just know someone that was there.

[1804] And, yeah, I think it's this pretty serious ongoing thing.

[1805] Buried treasure, right?

[1806] Remember when you were a kid?

[1807] There was X marks the spot.

[1808] The coolest.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] The coolest.

[1811] The so -called Knights Templar Cross is one of the most exciting treasures found there.

[1812] Really?

[1813] But they found it?

[1814] So -called.

[1815] says upon first glance it resembles a Knight's Templar Cross Do they have a picture of this thing?

[1816] I do that's the show right here So yeah When they find these If they in the open ocean When they find these things It's whoever finds it gets to keep it right If it's in international waters I believe so So when they have like these ancient Roman ships But you still have to bring it back into port And declare it Yeah What makes it historically valuable Like I think there's a lot I feel like there's a lot of loopholes where you can get screwed out of your find.

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] Man. Yeah, it's, that's a weird one.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] Who owns that?

[1821] Right.

[1822] Who knows?

[1823] Yeah.

[1824] I don't know.

[1825] It's just interesting to me that there were so many ships that went down that you can find these things in the ocean still.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] And they're filled with gold.

[1828] These Roman ships.

[1829] And people retire off of it and, you know, spend their whole career and lose every dime they have trying to find one.

[1830] Yeah.

[1831] And how do they coordinate?

[1832] Did they read like old logs or something like that and try to figure out which way the people went and I have no idea hmm man so what other like crazy trips do you want to do that you haven't done yet oh there's a lot man I mean the one that I've had on my bucket list since I was a so there's a couple one is there's one really one place on earth left where there's true cannibals it's Papua New Guinea and unlike the missionary that went in you know with an agenda I would just love to actually see these these cannibalistic tribes So I'd love to do that.

[1833] Nobody has successfully, unless it's happened very recently, and I'm aware of, successfully done source to sea of the Congo River, from guerrilla warfare, from crazy waterfalls, disease.

[1834] That's an expedition I'd like to try.

[1835] And then when it comes to wildlife, I mean, the list is infinite.

[1836] There's so many of these animals that I'm desperate to try and find.

[1837] Those sound like very dangerous trips.

[1838] Like visiting cannibals?

[1839] Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know how to say this about sounding arrogant, but that's what sounds exciting.

[1840] to me. You know, is giving that shot that other, taking that shot that other people aren't taking.

[1841] So have people visited these cannibals and come out of there before?

[1842] Yep.

[1843] Yep.

[1844] There was a, there was a Nat Geo photographer who got some incredible photos.

[1845] They're called the Caraway tribe.

[1846] And he went in there, took him a while for them to kind of assimilate and get comfortable.

[1847] And then he got these photos that are just mind -blowing.

[1848] Now, how often do they practice cannibalism?

[1849] It is a, it's not a daily thing.

[1850] It is a spiritual thing where they actually eat the other tribes deceased after a war or an intertribal conflict as a way to like ward off bad spirits.

[1851] So it's not like a daily thing.

[1852] It's not like they're going out hunting each other.

[1853] It's more like when these things occur, they have to eat a certain kill or a certain body to keep evil spirits at bay.

[1854] Do they get that version of mad cow's disease that cannibals get?

[1855] Was it Yucob's Crutsfeld?

[1856] I know what you're talking about.

[1857] I'm not sure.

[1858] I think it's probably infrequent enough that they're not getting it because like in the South Pacific they got that all the time but they were eating each other like all the time.

[1859] Yeah.

[1860] Well, I think you get it from nerves, right?

[1861] In nerve tissue or brains.

[1862] That's where they're getting it from.

[1863] It's essentially mad cow disease.

[1864] Exactly.

[1865] Is this guy hanging out with them there?

[1866] It starts off of sounding he's eating something.

[1867] I don't think he's eating people with them.

[1868] He's going to eat a fucking person?

[1869] That's not a person.

[1870] That's a pig or something.

[1871] Yeah.

[1872] I don't think they'd show that.

[1873] But yeah, look.

[1874] of the tribe.

[1875] I mean, they're just like amazing.

[1876] Yeah, but it's just so incredible that there's still people that live the way they lived many, many, many thousands of years ago, and they essentially just get their resources from the land, from the area they live, and they're just rocking it old school.

[1877] And then for me, like, the cultural significance is huge, but what's the biological area like?

[1878] You're right?

[1879] Nobody's going in there.

[1880] How much biological study's been done?

[1881] The answer is none.

[1882] And these people have large popular like look at that lady oh my god is she amazing wow yeah um have you uh read um sapiens sapiens no i'm not uh evolutionary book about human history Noah Yuval Harati I think that's the name of his he's amazing writing it down yeah it's a it's a great book but one of the things that they talk about in the book was these nomadic tribes that would yeah that's it Yuval Noah Harati I fucked up his name they would talk about these nomadic tribes that would kill the old ladies like kill the people that were burdens and like just shows like No just kill them Just talking about like What people became a problem Right They would just kill them and this was normal But they got along together great Everybody was like laughing and smiling Everybody's really friendly But as soon as someone seemed to be a problem They'd fucking club them from behind And just It's like this is gonna sound just awful but doesn't that make sense it kind of does it sucks but it kind of does right like you're a burden on the community or on the society you know there's no fucking old folks home out there yeah like that's it's crazy like to us in our culture that's absurd but as a culture removed from the rest of the world makes sense like you're a burden you know you've had a good life it's time to move on and they're nomadic that's the other thing it's like they have to keep moving so if someone stops and like there's one guy he was sick and so they left him on a tree and he became covered with buzzard shit because the vultures would just sit over him and wait for him to die but he eventually recovered and he caught up with the rest of the tribe and for the rest that they called them something like buzzard shit or something like that that was their nickname for him yeah imagine being that guy imagine sitting under a tree looking up at vultures being like it's moments till i die and they're going to drop down and eat me at least they're polite enough to wave for you to die it's true they don't just the guy I probably couldn't have fought them off.

[1883] That was a hyena, yeah.

[1884] Yeah, dude.

[1885] Hyenas.

[1886] They're the trippiest of all the animals, the matriarchal society of them, where the females have the fake dicks.

[1887] They're amazing.

[1888] How bizarre.

[1889] So weird.

[1890] Crazy faces, crazy biology and anatomy.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] You know, the fellow form that cat -like but doesn't belong to any family.

[1893] Yeah.

[1894] Super weird.

[1895] Love them.

[1896] They have a giant fake dick.

[1897] The females have a giant fake dick they give birth to.

[1898] They do.

[1899] Birth out of, rather.

[1900] Yep.

[1901] have unbelievable biting power too right yep the strongest mammalian jaw pressure on earth what a weird looking animal too it don't like even what the way it walks shouldered and you know like totally looks like a villain yeah yeah like its upper body is like higher than it's lower body it's very strange very what is it like when you encounter those in a while are they sketchy very cowardly very um wary at all times like uh i've encountered them a lot and as as when you're in africa if they're taller if you're taller than it it generally won't attack you.

[1902] So people get, like, super scared of hyenas.

[1903] When I was a little boy, I learned if you're running in the bush and you see a hyena, stand up and put your arms up like that.

[1904] They say that about cats too, right?

[1905] Like mountain lions?

[1906] Look at that motherfucker.

[1907] Jesus.

[1908] Look at that thing, man. So cool.

[1909] It doesn't even look like them, huh?

[1910] Cool, I sure.

[1911] It's very cool, but it's not at my house.

[1912] It's so creepy looking.

[1913] Yeah.

[1914] I love when they circle lions, too.

[1915] Like, when they get enough of them together and they start circling and snapping at the lion's legs.

[1916] Strengthen numbers.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] If you ever see, there's a documentary on this one male lion who, uh, would kill all these hyenas, and he was like the enforcer for the tribe.

[1919] No way.

[1920] You see how the hyenas would come in and fuck with the female lions and then this giant male would come out of nowhere.

[1921] And there's video of it, video of him smashing these hyenas, just grabbing them with his giant head, shaking them, snapping them, and tossed him in the air and then chasing after another one and, and, and killing them too.

[1922] Unreal.

[1923] No, I haven't seen that.

[1924] That's amazing.

[1925] Have you ever seen Relentless Enemies?

[1926] You ever seen that documentary?

[1927] Netflix?

[1928] No, no, no. It's, um, it might be on Netflix.

[1929] Dude, I've got so much homework to do.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] Relentless enemies is a documentary about a very rare pack of lions that branched, the river changed its course and left them stranded on an island with, um, water buffalo.

[1932] Okay.

[1933] So they developed, like, a much larger frame, and they're, like, far larger than regular lions.

[1934] Like, the female lions in this pack are as big as male lions anywhere else.

[1935] They're enormous.

[1936] They don't even look real.

[1937] Is this relentless?

[1938] Yeah, it's from 2006.

[1939] Oh, it's not very old.

[1940] There's also a book.

[1941] Oh, okay.

[1942] But what's really cool is that they've evolved to take down these enormous buffalo.

[1943] Sure.

[1944] so the cats when you look at them they look like a lot that that looks normal there but it's all relative that looks like a normal one but some of them looks so muscular yeah they almost look fake oh he's getting his oh wow she's got the calf she's getting the calf yeah cape buffalo are terrifying too by the way fuck yeah yeah she's like up let that go fuck it but there's you know very few things that they can eat on this one island so they've developed this ability to just have larger frames and they're much more muscular and apparently there's what's really interesting is there's this pack that's really big but then there's another pack that lives on the island that's normal sized huh yeah so they must be eating the smaller prey species i don't know man i'm too stupid but it's the same thing so what the size of that fucker look at that female look at the muscular chair in the hind quarters yeah i mean she's built like a male she's built like a large male lion i mean that is a steroids yeah that's a big female yeah amazing The same thing that happened in Newfoundland, Canada, with the wolves.

[1945] You love wolves?

[1946] So there was this island, Newfoundland, and these wolves, gray wolves, were isolated there for long, long time.

[1947] And all they were eating were moose and caribou.

[1948] So they just got huge.

[1949] And they were bright white because it was a snow -covered island, like 80 % of the year.

[1950] And there were just these massive white wolves all jacked, all shredded, chasing around moose and caribou.

[1951] Wow.

[1952] It's just the way nature allows animals to adapt to their environment.

[1953] It's just unbelievably interesting.

[1954] It's what I live for, honestly.

[1955] It's so fascinating.

[1956] The ecological niches that each animal fulfills and the roles that they play within each other, it's all perfectly balanced.

[1957] And to see it and understand it, like, it's fantastic to see the individual, but to understand the big picture of the environment and the roles that are filled, as you say, it's like, it's mind -blowing.

[1958] Yeah, there's a documentary on the Congo from the BBC, from, I want to say, like the early 2000s, maybe even late 90s, and it goes into that into detail about how all these animals have adapted and like dikers there's dikers in the Congo that swim underwater for as much as 100 yards.

[1959] No way.

[1960] And they eat fish.

[1961] Some of them eat fish.

[1962] A fish eating antelope that swims.

[1963] A fish eating antelope that swims.

[1964] Nuts.

[1965] Yeah, and then all these animals that got trapped as this area, these grasslands turned into rainforest.

[1966] These animals that were essentially like grasslands animals like antelopes and stuff.

[1967] stuck in the fucking jungle, the swampy jungle.

[1968] And you see like these big packs of like antelope running through this swampy jungle area where they just don't look like they belong there.

[1969] It's insane.

[1970] And that's how speciation occurs, right?

[1971] So that dyca over a millennia develops fangs to catch those fish and a crocodile -like face and webbed hooves or, you know, I don't know, I'm making shit up.

[1972] But the point is that's how you get these crazy new species.

[1973] And here in the middle of Congo in this tiny little pocket is this animal that nobody's ever seen before kind of thing and that like to me that's what it's all about go to the congo find that thing you know is it there what is it that's why someone like me is so incredibly thankful there someone like you out there because i don't want to go there i don't want to go there but i want to look at your instagram page i guarantee you'd love it i'm sure i'm 100 % sure you're right i'm also 100 % sure i'm not going but but i'm happy that you go i mean it's thank you i'm i'm so fascinated by animals and just animal life and adaptation.

[1974] I think it's one of the more interesting things about this planet.

[1975] Definitely.

[1976] Is these weird organisms that are trying to figure out their way to survival, you know?

[1977] And we're just one of them.

[1978] And they're adapting and moving and changing.

[1979] And we're always finding new ones.

[1980] Like, I found a fucking snake.

[1981] I posted it up on, um, on Twitter like a week or so ago.

[1982] A snake that has a tail that looks like a fake spider.

[1983] Mm -hmm.

[1984] Have you seen that fucking thing?

[1985] I'm not sure.

[1986] Do you know the species of it?

[1987] I know the species.

[1988] It's from, I think it's from, I think it's from, I think it's from Iran and it's a rattlesnakeyled viper yeah scaled pit viper is that it yeah it's a viper not a roned viper oh it's a horned viper have you seen that thing i know what they are yeah it's incredible looks like a spider right and it tricks birds into coming down and try to snatch the spider here we go the iranians spider viper spider tailed viper like look at its tail that is crazy i mean i'm looking at that in a video and it looks like a bug right And so this thing moves its tail And it perfectly blends into the rock around it Like look at that Unbelievable I mean that amount of camouflage and adaptation Like how does that happen It's incredible Look at this It's boom Oh got you bitch Dunzo And the birds like what was that that almost got me Yeah It's insane What an adaptation I mean like you see the anglerfish That's a very bizarre adaptation as well Same thing just out of the head Yeah Yeah It's unbelievable I mean, the fact that creatures can create that without, you know, it's not like they're doing it knowingly.

[1989] Right.

[1990] Some handful of snakes at one time started wagging their tail and realizing that birds came in.

[1991] Yes.

[1992] And then over generational time, this tail evolved little spikes and little things and all of a sudden you have this whole population of animals that look like that.

[1993] Like, that's insane.

[1994] I mean, what is it?

[1995] How the fuck does that happen?

[1996] I mean, how does something grow something like that, a lure?

[1997] Right.

[1998] It grows a lure off of its head.

[1999] and it's like hey look it's something for you you know you want to eat it look at that one oh my god that's got a worm i mean i think literally has a like a fishing worm like a bass worm i mean it's it's so amazing all of this adaptation and all of these look at that fucking monster with a light growing i mean it's got a flashlight on its head but it's just it's so amazing how much adaptation there is and how all these things sort of work together right like There's the bacteria and the fungi and the plant life and the animal life and the predators and the prey and it all sort of works together.

[2000] And when something doesn't work, it just sort of drops off and then the system sort of resets itself in a new order.

[2001] I mean, to me, you're saying it's one of the most fascinating things.

[2002] To me, there is nothing more fascinating.

[2003] Like, I'm, you know, I'm obsessed with it.

[2004] I live for it because I find it so interesting.

[2005] now when you study these things and do you ever try to think like how the fuck that happened like you see that that spider -tailed snake is there anyone that has like an idea like that this was you know this was just a lucky break that this one snake had a freaky tail and then he got to fuck a lot because he ate a lot of birds that's the idea man you just i swear to god you just summed it up like that is the idea one or two or three snakes kind of got this adaptation just a random genetic sequencing that led to maybe a white blotch on the tail something unique doesn't it not seem like that though it seems like they fashioned it but over time they did but over millennia right over thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of years the one what happened was say there's two snakes with a white spot on their tail then they have a baby and it has little bit of deformation right a little thing sticking out then that snake all of a sudden catches more birds than the rest of the snakes that snake now reproduces offspring and its offspring that has a little bit bigger of a spike catches more birds and so those become the prized animals to reproduce with to continue the gene pool and so that's what happens it keeps evolving it's like a peacock right got this crazy big tail that it's attracting mates with it's not useful to the bird you know that's entirely made for showmanship for peacocking if you will and over generational time it gets bigger and crazier and more elaborate and more colorful and the females literally flock to them, and that's the animal that continues on.

[2006] I really wish there was a way, and maybe there will be some time in the future, where they're going to be able to show you with some sort of supercomputer sequencing, where they'll be able to look at the DNA of this thing and say, oh, this is the exact progression.

[2007] Right.

[2008] This is what it started off with, and this is what it became.

[2009] Right.

[2010] This is how some sketchy -looking forest chicken became a peacock.

[2011] Totally.

[2012] You know, this is how some freaky snake became perfectly adapted to its environment.

[2013] I mean, that thing looks exactly like the rock that it sits on.

[2014] It's perfect.

[2015] It is incredible.

[2016] Like, I would, I'm like you.

[2017] I'd love to know who patient zero is.

[2018] You know, who's the first one?

[2019] Yeah, because stupid people like me look at that and they go, okay, well, that's got to be a plan.

[2020] There's got to be something.

[2021] There's a higher power.

[2022] There's a something that, like, is looking after these things and making them, making them evolve this way.

[2023] Right.

[2024] It's, I mean, it's, it's super interesting.

[2025] What about, like, cephalopods, like octopus and cuddlefish.

[2026] and the way they adapt to their environment.

[2027] That's even freaky, right?

[2028] Because they do it instantaneously.

[2029] And have you ever heard the theory that octopus are from out of space?

[2030] Yeah, we talked about that with Brian Cox the other day.

[2031] Yeah, I'm not super well read on it, but like it looks like a damn alien.

[2032] Yeah, he was very incredulous, but, you know, he's obviously smarter than both of us.

[2033] Right.

[2034] So it gets to be.

[2035] Yeah, it's like me looking at that going, man, it doesn't make sense.

[2036] Of course it doesn't make sense.

[2037] I'm stupid.

[2038] Right.

[2039] But he's, he's, you know, when we're looking at this, I, but this is apparently, like, peer -reviewed, published paper about the possibility of octopus being reintroduceding.

[2040] And I think it has something to do with the way RNA and DNA is on them, right?

[2041] Do you know?

[2042] I don't understand it well, but yes, it's like the thought that the population came from out of space because the DNA sequence and suggests something that makes it extraterrestrial adaptability.

[2043] Yeah, he was super skeptical because he was saying that they're essentially so close to everything else here.

[2044] Right.

[2045] doesn't make sense.

[2046] But the other theory was it might be just this is the path of life.

[2047] Right.

[2048] And the reason why it's so close to us is that this is the way all life, even if it's extraterrestrial, gets established.

[2049] Sure.

[2050] I don't believe octopus are from out of space, but I love the theory.

[2051] I love the idea of it.

[2052] It looks like it's from out of space.

[2053] You know, it's just wacky.

[2054] Well, it's such a cool thought.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] You know, these things came from out of spaces.

[2057] Well, that's also a thought about psilocybin mushrooms from the weirder people that they came on asteroids, and there's spores.

[2058] I've heard that.

[2059] And they've, I don't know if you know this, but they've proven that certain, I don't know about psilocybans, but certain mushroom spores are impenetrable to the vacuum of space.

[2060] Yeah, they can survive.

[2061] Yeah, that's bananas.

[2062] I pick a lot of mushrooms, not psilocyvins, but a lot of porcini, a lot of chantrells.

[2063] Like, I do a lot of farging.

[2064] It's really fun.

[2065] Are you aware of Paul Stammats?

[2066] No, I don't know that name.

[2067] Oh, he's amazing.

[2068] Man, one of my favorite podcast ever.

[2069] He's a mycologist, and a fucking trip in every sense of the word a super genius mycologist who had the craziest story about being in high school and what did he say took 20 grams of mushrooms and climbed a tree during a lightning storm like something fucking something where you hear him tell the story and your hands start sweating you're like 20 grams or 10 grams or 20 grams like something fucking bananas something that would kill a moose yeah well it wouldn't kill it but it would definitely make it think it's not a moose anymore and it essentially changed his life, stopped him from stuttering.

[2070] He used to stutter, and he did this, and he stopped stuttering.

[2071] No way.

[2072] I've heard about guys that microdose with mushrooms with psilocybin, and it heightens their focus and cures their autism, and, you know, I'm not very well read on that, but there's a whole idea that microdosing with these chemicals that are naturally produced can actually have very positive effects.

[2073] Yeah, there's quite a few people who do that.

[2074] It's really common.

[2075] Yeah.

[2076] Yeah, I've talked to a lot of people that do that.

[2077] Oh, really?

[2078] dose with that and they also microdose with LSD.

[2079] There's a lot of that going on.

[2080] Yeah, a lot of Silicon Valley people are microdosing with LSD.

[2081] It's funny because the one person that I know that's done the microdosing with mushrooms from Silicon Valley.

[2082] Yeah, people grind them up into pill form.

[2083] And in fact, a lot of fighters are doing that now.

[2084] Really?

[2085] Really strange.

[2086] Yeah.

[2087] So what would that, why would that help you, like, as a fighter?

[2088] It's not a mental focus thing.

[2089] It's a physical thing at that point, right?

[2090] Well, it gets you into the flow state.

[2091] Interesting.

[2092] And so, like, with fighters, the real thing is, it's not just your skill, but it's your ability to execute that skill under pressure.

[2093] So there's an overwhelming amount of anxiety.

[2094] There's extreme consequences to getting hit or going wrong, getting knocked out.

[2095] The losing a fight is absolutely devastating.

[2096] It's devastating emotionally.

[2097] It's devastating physically.

[2098] It's devastating psychologically.

[2099] It changes your perception of who you are and how you fit into the world.

[2100] And that sometimes, and I shouldn't say sometimes, oftentimes impedes performance.

[2101] sure kind of come back from it kind of thing well it's not just that the consequences of it possibly go wrong make you hesitate and it just it's the stress of it all is very constricting it's very difficult to operate under that stress sure the mushrooms for some people alleviate that stress and put you in this elevated state where they say and i haven't i've never fought on mushrooms but they say that when you're on mushrooms you actually can see what a guy's going to do before he does it interesting Yeah, you have a sense of what they're going to do that's a much more heightened sense than you would if you were just in a normal sober state.

[2102] So do you think you're picking that up through like biological cues?

[2103] Like you could see the muscles twitching in the arm before the punch comes or like what, how do you think that?

[2104] It's a good question.

[2105] I haven't done it.

[2106] I don't know.

[2107] You know, I've never sparred on mushrooms or.

[2108] It doesn't sound like a good idea.

[2109] But it's really common.

[2110] They say it is a good idea.

[2111] The guys who do it love it.

[2112] Yeah.

[2113] And guys have like, you know, had some really extreme positive results.

[2114] Huh.

[2115] yeah that's fascinating i never thought as an athletic performer that athletic enhancement that would be a thing yeah it's it's not just the i mean i don't think it makes you move faster right or hit stronger or hit harder but i think what it does is it puts you in the zone interesting like there's there's states that you get into where you just you can't do no wrong and they're usually very elusive they come and they go you know you get them like um do you ever play pool a little bit I mean, but you know how sometimes you play pool for a few hours and then you just all this feeling you feel like you can't miss. You just have this feeling of where everything's gonna go.

[2116] That's, even if you're not very good, sometimes those will come for like two, three shots and it's the zone.

[2117] Sure.

[2118] You know, and that elusive state of like, and then sometimes you're like, wow, I can't believe them in the zone and then it goes away.

[2119] Right.

[2120] You know, right.

[2121] Maintaining that flow state.

[2122] But do you think it takes emotions out of it?

[2123] Like, is that why you're in that state?

[2124] Like, if you're not emotionally attached to that shot or that punch, maybe you can execute it better.

[2125] It's possible.

[2126] I mean, there's a lot of speculation of what's going on and what's causing this elevated state of consciousness.

[2127] It's interesting.

[2128] Yeah, I don't know.

[2129] Maybe I'll just start microdosing on mushrooms and going out to chase snakes around.

[2130] Maybe.

[2131] Maybe you would be, like, more in tune with the environment.

[2132] Or maybe I'd get bitten and die.

[2133] That's true, too.

[2134] You're like, hello, little snake.

[2135] I'm your friend.

[2136] He's like, fuck you, you are.

[2137] Okay, so I'm not like a big drug guy by any means, but I think you'll love this story.

[2138] on this Amazon trip I told you about we land in this air strip in this plane we meet we get into this village and I'm like cool boats have made it here took the boats five days we're going to head up river right and our like translators like you can't do that yet what do you mean like we've spent months planning this he's like you have to have the shaman's blessing to go up river and I'm like okay what does that mean he's like come to the maloka which is the like spiritual house so we go to the spiritual house we sit around we talk and we talk and we talk and it's like hours of not like asking him to go but just like almost like idle conversation where he's almost like interviewing us like well what are you doing where are you going where are you from and he doesn't really understand any of this right he's like he's living in this community long story short he goes okay you can go but you have to take this blessing and we're like sure well whatever you need for us to go so he pulls out the snail shell i could show you a picture of it it's a snail shell with a monkey bone in the top and a tube worm to close it and in this snail shell is this green powder and he's like this is what you need for the blessing.

[2139] So he goes around the circle and through a monkey bone pipe, he blows this green stuff in your nose.

[2140] Is that called the Kuhei?

[2141] Not by that word that we heard.

[2142] I couldn't tell the name of the pipe.

[2143] No, no, the stuff they blow up your nose.

[2144] Is it DMT?

[2145] It's coca leaf.

[2146] Oh, mixed with a bunch of a root and tobacco, I believe, like all together.

[2147] And anyway, so he goes, there's five of us in my crew.

[2148] He goes around the circle and he hits three guys and they all go, whoa, my brain feels like I've got chlorine on the head, you know, whatever.

[2149] blows it into your nose.

[2150] Yeah, so it gets really close.

[2151] He's got this long tubular monkey bone pipe, and he goes, and it just blows it up into your nose.

[2152] And hits three of my guys, and I'm watching a little bit nervous because I'm very, like, standoffish on drugs.

[2153] Like, I know things affect me very strangely.

[2154] Anyway, hits three of my guys, they go, you know, eyes watering, and they're like, wow, it's actually a great feeling.

[2155] Gets to my turn in the nose.

[2156] All of a sudden, I feel like I've got acid on my brain, like chlorine in my head.

[2157] I break into the sweat.

[2158] My eyes explode, and I'm like wobbling like this.

[2159] And 30 seconds later, I'm just curled over in the fetal position, just projectile vomiting, cannot hold it together.

[2160] And Lorenzo, the tribal shaman, goes, good, good.

[2161] And we're like, why is this good?

[2162] And he's like, he had a bad spirit in him.

[2163] If he had gone up the river, he would have been killed.

[2164] He's just got the bad spirit out.

[2165] This is why I had to bless you.

[2166] Now you can go.

[2167] and I was the only one that it hit like that out of our five -person crew everybody else was like oh my brain sore whatever I was literally fetal position feverish puking crate and I've never done any drugs like hard drugs like it's just not my thing and this thing just hit me like a ton of bricks after he said that did you think was there a I mean you're a scientist you're a very smart guy but was there a part of you that was like man is this guy right yes that's what's so crazy because I'm a fucking scientist I don't want to believe it's believe that.

[2168] I don't want to believe fucking jungle medicine made me not die.

[2169] But this guy, here I am.

[2170] Nobody else fucking affected.

[2171] I'm sitting in the fetal position, puking my brains out, and the guy's going good, now you'll be safe.

[2172] And the whole fucking trip, I've got that in the back of my mind going, maybe the whole reason nothing's going wrong is because I just had green fucking powder blowed up my nose.

[2173] Whoa.

[2174] Yeah, super weird.

[2175] And I, nothing has ever affected me like that.

[2176] I mean, curled up, puking, shivering.

[2177] What are you trying to make logical sense out of this?

[2178] Was there ever a thought where you're like maybe in this extreme environment that's so utterly different than any other place in the world that these rules are different?

[2179] Absolutely.

[2180] I mean, I'm sitting there going, going into it, I'm like, cool, yeah, I'll do the stupid powder if it means I can go on my expedition.

[2181] You know what I mean?

[2182] Like, I'm not like embracing it.

[2183] I'm just like going through the motion to get my job done as a scientist.

[2184] And then I had this experience.

[2185] and I'm not saying I was enlightened or awoken or anything like that, but all of a sudden I attributed my success and my safety in small part to this green fucking powder blown up my nose by a shaman through a monkey bone.

[2186] And the thing about it is, even if that's not true, if you think it's true and then you wind up being okay and you have confidence that you're going to be okay and maybe you have less anxiety and make better critical decisions because you think that everything's going work out.

[2187] Exactly.

[2188] Exactly.

[2189] Totally.

[2190] Because I was super focused on my mission.

[2191] We were very, very successful in what we set out to do.

[2192] And I feel like because I had that crazy experience and here's this old little jungle Indian going, now you're going to be okay, I didn't have any anxiety going into the situation.

[2193] And before that, I had no thought of it ever playing a part.

[2194] Well, like the mind fuck of the placebo effect, right?

[2195] Totally.

[2196] We know that that's real.

[2197] So there's a some sort of a physical effect by believing that something works.

[2198] Right.

[2199] But is there a, is there a change in the way you interface with reality if you believe that you've experienced some sort of spiritual enrichening and that some sort of a, some bad spirit has been released from your body?

[2200] Is that possible?

[2201] I think so.

[2202] I think it changes your own reality because of your perception of the outside world.

[2203] That is a freaky thing for a scientist to say.

[2204] Right?

[2205] Right.

[2206] And this is like, I am a hardcore academic.

[2207] I've never considered spirituality, religion, anything.

[2208] And I had this just fucking 10 days ago, this crazy experience that has like changed my mindset on crazy jungle medicine and drugs and catching animals, everything, because this one guy blew crap up my nose and I puked everywhere.

[2209] Wow.

[2210] Now, has this made you one experiment with other plant medicines?

[2211] No. The only reason I did that is because it was a necessity to do whatever.

[2212] I was doing.

[2213] It was coming from an expert, if you will, but a person who saw it as a necessity to do what I was doing, and I was under his guidance.

[2214] To go out and, you know, pick a mushroom and try it and have an experience is I don't see the benefit in that.

[2215] But when someone who lives in that community embraces that wild jungle says, this is my home and this is how you do it, I will absolutely do it.

[2216] So you do it like out of respect?

[2217] Absolutely.

[2218] Yeah.

[2219] What if they wanted you out of respect there's a bunch of those different snuffs that they pump up their nose and one of them is uh i think it's it's some form of five methoxy dimethylptomy which is that stuff that comes off a toads oh gotcha yeah there's there's and it has a bunch of other stuff in it too and they do the same thing that's what i think that one's called a coo hay i'm not i've read it so i don't know if i'm saying that right that must be a hallucinogenic right yeah they blow it up your nose and you see jesus i mean look if it was the same situation where he's telling me you got to do this to go to work do your job whatever absolutely i do it out of respect yeah wouldn't you yes yeah yeah i think you kind of have to totally you'd be an asshole i mean i think you know when you're in the world of these people and they they've survived in this world for eons and this is their environment and like you kind of kind of have to let go and give in to this absolutely yeah you have to embrace it man do you live a fucking cool life it's weird it's really cool thanks it's really cool thank you Thank you for coming here, man, and sharing this stuff with us, and thanks for doing what you do.

[2220] It's fucking awesome.

[2221] I love it.

[2222] It's been an absolute pleasure.

[2223] I've really enjoyed it.

[2224] Thanks for coming, man. Yeah, anytime.

[2225] I've got my hands sweaty, thinking about all this shit.

[2226] Tell people how to get a hold of you on Instagram and Twitter and all that jazz.

[2227] Yep.

[2228] My name, Forrest Galante, F -O -R -E -S -T -Galante.

[2229] I'm on all of the social media platforms.

[2230] Is it Forrest -D -Galante?

[2231] On Instagram, yes.

[2232] On the others, there's no dot.

[2233] Look me up.

[2234] Love chatting to people.

[2235] thank you again my pleasure man it was really fun thank you thank you thank you thank you