Jason Segel

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[3] Hello there.

[4] One of your premier boyfriends is on today, which is very exciting.

[5] I love this guy.

[6] You love him.

[7] So do I. Jason Siegel.

[8] What a talented son of a gun.

[9] For real.

[10] Yeah.

[11] Of course, I fell in love with him in forgetting Sarah Marshall, but I'm sure many people loved him long before that from freaks and geeks or how I met your mother.

[12] He also was in The Muppets.

[13] I believe he wrote it.

[14] He is a screenwriter.

[15] He's a producer.

[16] and he is an author and a singer and songwriter.

[17] He has a new movie out right now, which people are loving, by the way, since we interviewed him, three different people told me they love this movie.

[18] Yay!

[19] Our friend.

[20] So please check out his new movie, Our Friend, and enjoy the ever -intertaining Jason Siegel.

[21] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad -free right now.

[22] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[23] You can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[24] So the bookshelf behind you is so immaculate that it makes me wonder if it's a, well, no, you just pan down and it moves.

[25] So I guess it's not a screensaver.

[26] No, but it's also not.

[27] I mean, these aren't my, I don't read them.

[28] I bought them by the inch.

[29] When you open some of the top ones that are particularly dusty, is there either a hand?

[30] handgun or a ransom dollar.

[31] Jelly beans, yeah.

[32] Just jelly beans.

[33] Do you live in the Hollywood Hills, Jason?

[34] No, I live mostly in Ohio.

[35] And then I have a place in Pasadena for if I have to work.

[36] But that's where I am now, but I'm mostly Ohio.

[37] What is the Ohio experience?

[38] The gateway drug to Ohio seems to be Ted and Mary.

[39] Yeah, sure.

[40] You go there and it's Eden and you're like, oh, I could have this life too.

[41] And then I just imagine Kristen and I'm moving there and being confused about what to do.

[42] Yeah, there is not much to do.

[43] Although town is starting to pick up and like, I think in a good way, it's like clicking up a notch.

[44] It's never going to be too like Montecito.

[45] It's just limited.

[46] But for me, writing especially, not being surrounded by the business and like slowly, what do they call it when they do it to a cult member?

[47] Yeah, deep programming.

[48] Yeah, yeah.

[49] Out of, like, trying to think about relevance or comparative thinking and all that, you then start, like, doing art for better or for worse.

[50] It's, like, uniquely you, which I found refreshing.

[51] I mean, like, your pace slows way down.

[52] My output really slowed down, but it's stuff that I'm increasingly proud of, you know?

[53] Ah.

[54] So I fantasize about your existence quite often, a couple hours a day.

[55] Because I, too, used to be a writer.

[56] But the only way I can write is to go.

[57] go to that four seasons in Westlake and commit four days to just sitting by myself.

[58] It's just the only way possible.

[59] So I do fantasize about your life about maybe that I would be writing, but I also imagine is it hard to stay on task with unlimited time?

[60] It's almost easier for me if I have punctuated time.

[61] My relationship to writing is not one of like, oh, I have an idea and this is going to be a joyful process.

[62] Most of it is just panic.

[63] Like, I have to make something happen.

[64] This is my way of exerting control.

[65] I'm going to write something.

[66] And then the stuff ends up being good, but when I'm writing it, it doesn't feel like an artistic process.

[67] It feels like very panicked.

[68] I can relate immensely.

[69] And I've had the goal for the last, I guess, eight years to actually enjoy the process.

[70] Or let me be more specific.

[71] Not right from a place of you're a lazy piece of shit if you don't write eight pages.

[72] You're a terrible writer if it's not blank.

[73] You need this as a backup plan because you're going to be penniless.

[74] Like, rediscovering maybe how I wrote in how.

[75] high school where it was literally to take a walk through my memory or my imagination.

[76] I like aspire to that.

[77] What motivates you to write?

[78] Generally, like, I don't think having ideas is the hard part.

[79] I have a lot of ideas.

[80] I've always felt like what separates someone who does it versus who's sitting at a coffee shop with a half -finished screenplay is the like sitting through the part where you hate the idea because it takes so long to write something.

[81] It takes months and months and months.

[82] So, like, You go through these waves where you think it's stupid or you just don't want to do it or you sit around.

[83] When I think of an idea, I kind of try to ignore it is my first impulse.

[84] And then if I find that it's nagging at me and slowly it becomes like the alien trying to get out of your chest.

[85] Some of this is maybe a mental problem, but I'm being serious.

[86] Yeah, like I can't not exercise it or my brain won't leave me alone.

[87] yes i totally relate and in fact when we were interviewing will feral i asked him i said you know rule for myself is like i'll get like so horny for an idea but it'll only have like an eight -day shelf life and i really need to know that like a month later i'm still horny for it and i said is it a liability for you who can literally pick up the phone and go uh three guys are stuck on the moon and one guy you know and then the thing gets in motion you know what i'm saying like it could be dangerous for me to have ever had the capital in this business to execute every idea I had.

[88] Yeah, because not all of them are full movies.

[89] I mean, you know it when you see one where you're like, this is an idea, like human centipede.

[90] Somebody had, someone had one idea that then somehow that was like a nightmare, and then it became a full movie, you know, not to knock human centipede, I suppose it's time for a certain niche.

[91] Yeah, we love it over here.

[92] Don't knock it.

[93] We watch it this morning.

[94] Yeah, good.

[95] Instead of the inaugurates.

[96] Yes.

[97] Honest to God, I try not to be too strategic, maybe to a fault.

[98] Very much now, I'm like, all right, you're really fucking lucky.

[99] You get to make shit.

[100] So let's make shit.

[101] And that should kind of be the end of the sentence, you know?

[102] Yeah, forget about the results.

[103] Some of it goes great.

[104] Some of it, no one, I just did a show that I love so much.

[105] And I did all of the jobs on it.

[106] I wrote it and I directed it and I started it.

[107] It was very personal.

[108] Dispatches from elsewhere.

[109] Dispatches from elsewhere.

[110] And I'm super, super proud of it because of a great many things, not very many people saw it.

[111] But not very many people, it means like hundreds of thousands.

[112] But nonetheless, like coming from a time when, like opening weekend to be gigantic, the feeling potentially could have been disappointing.

[113] But I'm able now to be like, well, you made something that you are so proud of.

[114] and in a few hundred thousand people, it was very meaningful to, and what more do you want?

[115] Like, at what point do you let yourself say, I won?

[116] Because if you don't figure out a way that you're going to feel good, you will feel like behind for your whole career, your whole life, you know?

[117] Yeah.

[118] Oh, man, I have so much to say on this, because I've had, you know, the ultimate, spend two years, thing tanks, Friday night.

[119] My life's over.

[120] My identity is shattered.

[121] and I'll say one of the best things I heard is Kevin Smith said Hey dude imagine going to yourself On the playground when you were 12 And you go hey when you grow up You're going to fucking direct a movie Where you ride wheelies on motorcycles Yeah Do you think 12 year old Dax says How much did it make?

[122] Yeah Oh my God That's exactly right Oh my God what a breakthrough Yeah totally And you get to decide What's important to you also You know I began asking myself around 33 years old, I had a big blank canvas in front of me because I was on a TV show that ended naturally.

[123] And then I had a string of romantic comedies that slowly, we tried to like stretch 24 -year -old Jason as far as we could.

[124] And at 33, the rubber band kind of snapped, you know?

[125] And it was also a period where I stopped drinking as well at 33 years old.

[126] And so I had this blank canvas ahead of me, where most things by which I defined my identity were suddenly gone.

[127] So, like, what do I do now?

[128] I mean, a big, scary moment of who am I without this stuff, you know?

[129] And then I did a movie called The End of the Tour that I was very scared to do because I didn't know if I was good enough at it.

[130] And I, like, walked into a lot of fear.

[131] Is this where you play, David?

[132] David Foster Wallace, yeah.

[133] And so I didn't know if I was a good enough actor to do it.

[134] And I kind of walked through the, are you a con man in this business kind of fear?

[135] I came out the other side thinking that I was not a con man and that I could do stuff.

[136] And then I became really interested in figuring out, like, you have almost intentionally not bumped up against your limits for like 10 years because you've been doing stuff you know how to do.

[137] So let's like bump into some walls.

[138] Like, let's take this for a spin and find out what you can and can't do.

[139] And that's been the past few years, and I've just loved it.

[140] Yeah.

[141] Oh, man. It's so scary.

[142] And I applaud it.

[143] Yeah.

[144] Because, again, I have the same.

[145] I'm a fraud.

[146] They're going to knock on the door pretty soon and go, what big clerical error?

[147] You weren't supposed to work in any capacity.

[148] Look at your face.

[149] You're not allowed to be on TV with my face.

[150] That's the main complaint on the piece of paper.

[151] Do you want to know something?

[152] This is an absolutely true story.

[153] We did The Muppets, and we did a, you know, they do test screenings for movies, as you know, where they show it to an audience and they make them fill out these little forms.

[154] Well, the funny thing about Muppets is we did test screening just exactly the same, but for kids, and made them fill out these forms and asked them these questions over.

[155] And I have one framed.

[156] Like, what did you like about the movie?

[157] My character's name is Gary.

[158] What did you like about the movie?

[159] The Muppets sing.

[160] It's like in little kid chicken scroll.

[161] The Muppets are fun.

[162] The Muppets dance.

[163] What did you not like about the movie?

[164] Gary's face.

[165] Like there's nothing more honest.

[166] I knew it was coming and it still hit me. Just a 10 -year -old being honest.

[167] Oh, God.

[168] We're so similar that you have that frame.

[169] Can I show you?

[170] I'm just going to show you something really quick on the computer.

[171] I don't know.

[172] I hope you can read it.

[173] Man, you're fit.

[174] This is hanging in the studio here.

[175] Oh, my gosh.

[176] Oh, my God.

[177] Oh, man. I mean, that's a landslide.

[178] Oh, my God.

[179] That is a landslide.

[180] 72 % of Americans would not date me. I'm sorry.

[181] You know, and then I did what we do, which is like, I was like, this is so embarrassing.

[182] seen.

[183] I'm so humiliated.

[184] I must immediately go on Kimmel and take the power back.

[185] Oh, and how did it go?

[186] And I was like, you know, 28 % of America would date me. There's 300 million Americans.

[187] I never thought 40 million Americans would date me. You only need one and you won life.

[188] That's right.

[189] Oh, my God.

[190] You know, for my fears, it was a bullseye.

[191] It got me right in the quick.

[192] It was the...

[193] Yeah, I'm sure.

[194] I just have to ask, is the book behind you that's tilted supposed to be, is that on purpose tilted?

[195] Top show.

[196] Oh, this one up there?

[197] Yeah.

[198] Yeah.

[199] I knew it.

[200] How did you know?

[201] I just knew it.

[202] It's so perfectly tilted.

[203] Oh, my God.

[204] Do you have OCD?

[205] Yeah, I think I do.

[206] I mean, I think I almost 100 % do.

[207] I think I have a lot of mental issues that all overlap and it's like a beautiful dance party of problems.

[208] Do you have an explanation for it?

[209] OCD?

[210] The mental gymnastics that are happening in your head.

[211] Like I have a nature version of my explanation.

[212] I have a nurture version.

[213] You know, I'm like eighth generation addict, but also lots of stepdad, sexual abuse.

[214] You know, there's a whole bit of ingredients I explain it with.

[215] Yeah.

[216] You know, I have a very, very beautiful childhood, so I don't think that it comes from that.

[217] and I also know that I have had these issues and feelings of like intense feelings of being an outsider and all that stuff since I was super young, super, super young.

[218] I'm very anxious often and I get very anxious around making a definitive decision that I feel will affect my life because I feel like it is a forever decision that I will be sitting in.

[219] And my mom will tell this story that I used to save up my allowance because I actually came to her recently about something I was, really grappling with.

[220] She said, this is the same Jason.

[221] When you were eight years old, you would save up your allowance and save it up and save it up.

[222] And then finally you would come to us and say, I'm ready to go to the toy store.

[223] And you would go to the toy store and you would spend an hour and you would pick up this toy and you would get in line.

[224] And we could see you get increasingly scared as you got closer to the register.

[225] And then right as you approached it, you would chicken out and go and put the toy back and we would leave the store.

[226] Uh -huh, uh -huh.

[227] I feel as though it is that extended to my whole adult life.

[228] Uh -huh.

[229] Boy, that makes picking movies, when you had all the options in front of you, it must have been grueling to pick.

[230] Yeah, I mean, honestly, I numbed myself through a lot of that period because I felt a bit paralyzed about doing any of the stuff.

[231] I felt a lot of pressure.

[232] I'm only now just understanding that you make a decision, and then if it doesn't work out, you make a new decision, and you're just surfing the whole time, you know?

[233] 100%.

[234] I have to tell myself, okay, so this is neither going to land you in prison for the rest of your life or result in your death.

[235] So let's just, you know, let's right -size the concern over this.

[236] Yeah, absolutely.

[237] You know, I think also, like we talked about, there's, well, anyway, this is that's a tangent.

[238] Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

[239] I like tangents.

[240] We love tangents.

[241] We're all about tangents.

[242] That's kind of our brand of tangents.

[243] Well, I mean, I guess what I was going to say is there was also a period in my, you know, 20s and 30s where I was living in a way that was not very controlled.

[244] You know, like there was a lot of chaos and wreckage.

[245] So when you're also living in that state, there is a little whatever version of totally entitled PTSD you would want, you know, whatever the right.

[246] phrases of like oh i hope this doesn't really fuck something up you know i like i right i hope this doesn't fucking hurt somebody or add someone very close to me say like hey you have to remember you're not doing anything wrong anymore you know oh oh boy you just had something for me there was this period of um really interesting period in our coming up in our like formative years where paparazzi was a really big thing.

[247] I feel like that's changed a little bit because of the nature of camera phones.

[248] But prior to that, there weren't photos everywhere and people self -posting and all this.

[249] So often, paparazzi might just jump out of you and all of a sudden you were being photographed.

[250] And it took me a while to realize, like, oh, someone jumping out and taking a picture of me if I'm coming out of the grocery store is not something I have to worry about.

[251] Like nothing bad is happening.

[252] You know, uh -huh.

[253] Oh, so in therapy with my wife, the therapist was quick to recognize.

[254] He said, listen, here's what's happening.

[255] Dax was a scumbag until he was 30.

[256] He was a piece of shit.

[257] And so he's used to feeling like he's in trouble.

[258] And so when you're quiet, which is your own right, just recognize he thinks he's getting busted for this history of being a piece of shit.

[259] And so, yeah, I'm really prone to feeling like I'm in trouble.

[260] quite easily.

[261] Yeah.

[262] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[263] I always feel like, I think since I was very young, I felt like I've done something wrong, sort of in the background of my personality.

[264] Built in apology.

[265] I think that also comes from being very tall.

[266] Yeah, tell me. I've been this tall since I was 12.

[267] So I'm just like, same, same.

[268] So you're just kind of towering over everybody, you know, lumbering around like big birds.

[269] And I think for me, like both literally, and personality -wise, you develop a hunch to kind of lower yourself to everyone else's height.

[270] And that becomes an apologetic habit.

[271] Oh, sure.

[272] Yeah.

[273] I think maybe part of it is, because I know you and I don't know you, but it sounds like being like a deep thinker at a young age and having thoughts that are maybe different, maybe makes you always think you're in trouble because you're having all these layers of thinking that aren't maybe exposed.

[274] But does that make sense?

[275] It does make sense.

[276] It does make sense.

[277] And I would agree with that.

[278] Yeah, totally.

[279] And what I really responded to you saying earlier is I have come to realize the entire reason I loved writing is because I had a thousand percent control over everything that happens in this activity.

[280] Anything can happen and it's all up to me. And I desired that so much.

[281] 100%.

[282] You know, I think there's something funny.

[283] There's a phenomenon, I'm sure you're familiar with an expression called the piece of shit at the center of the universe.

[284] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[285] And I think that what's really interesting about this dichotomy, this personality type, is that, you know, underneath all artists, like, underneath all the different personality types is something that unites them, which is like some belief that everyone should be quiet and look at what you've made.

[286] Yeah, sure, sure.

[287] And so it's interesting to be walking around both thinking that you are terrible, but also everyone be quiet and listen.

[288] Yeah, my favorite version of that is I'm not much, but I'm all I think about.

[289] Yeah, yeah.

[290] Oh, that's great.

[291] That's great.

[292] That could be on my headstone.

[293] Okay, one thing I just wanted to say about being tall is clearly now it's awesome.

[294] Couldn't be more grateful for it.

[295] But this is this height at 204.

[296] You know, I was 139 at this height, and that was, that was rough.

[297] I was a big target.

[298] Yeah.

[299] I put it into forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[300] I was this childhood memory of all the kids one by one jumping on my back while the others chanted, ride the oaf.

[301] Ride the oaf.

[302] Oh, mama.

[303] That'll do.

[304] do it, right?

[305] Like, when you ask, how did you end up this way?

[306] And then you start telling the stories in order.

[307] Please, please, please write a memoir called Ride the Oath.

[308] Oh, my God, absolutely.

[309] But you also were athletic.

[310] Why did she work?

[311] No, no, you clearly still are I'm seen.

[312] The time you were an oath, you were also athletic, because I read with great jealousy today that you could slam dunk in high school, and I could only do a volleyball.

[313] So I'm really impressed and jealous.

[314] I have a brother who I, like, really idolized him in that era.

[315] And he was a superstar athlete.

[316] And so I really just wanted my brother's approval.

[317] So I practiced and practiced and practiced.

[318] He's older.

[319] He's five years older.

[320] Ah, same, same, same.

[321] Yeah.

[322] So I would say that a huge amount of basketball was just like, I really wanted my brother's approval.

[323] But yes, at some point I was able to dunk, and then the showman and me came out, and so that was like my Nick.

[324] The performer.

[325] My nickname changed from the Oaf to, they called me in the newspaper Dr. Dunk.

[326] Oh, really stuck with me, yeah.

[327] Yeah, that's a good one.

[328] Yeah, it's almost Dr. Jay.

[329] It's really good.

[330] It's really good.

[331] Is it possible that we're the same person separated by five years?

[332] So my brother's five years older than me, and all I wanted was his approval.

[333] So I did whatever sport he did, which was like skateboarding, BMX, whatever.

[334] ever punk rock well i mean to answer your question i have a fundamental belief that we're all pretty similar once we start finding like the connection points i think underneath all this stuff like i don't know i think i think we're all dealing with some pretty fundamental few issues so i'm very excited to hear today so you quit drinking at 33 yeah yeah do you talk about it it's something i talk about it nausea or does it make you uncomfortable it neither makes me uncomfortable nor do i talk about it so we're in a sweet we're in a sweet spot But yes, like, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, the best decision I ever made, you know, certainly necessary.

[335] I think it was on a collision course to some real, real unhappiness.

[336] I didn't have an inciting incident.

[337] You know, there wasn't like a particular moment where it was like I wasn't mandated or anything like that.

[338] But I knew that I was, well, I had basically an existential crisis where I won life.

[339] And I was terribly unhappy, you know?

[340] So I was sitting around with all the stuff that I thought and was told was going to make me feel real nice.

[341] And I did not feel good.

[342] I felt really scared.

[343] I would just say I felt scared most of the time.

[344] I had the experience of a thought that felt maybe, like, bigger than just a random thought.

[345] I don't know how else to describe it, which is, you're going to die this.

[346] way alone in a room surrounded by stuff that you are not enjoying and the worst version is that it's not tomorrow the worst version is that it's in 45 years yeah that you were able to stay miserable for another 30 before it actually happened so if you listen to this show right now you would feel like you were plagiarizing because my big moment was sitting in an airport in san francisco i was so sick from the week in Hawaii where I smoked meth and I drank and I had to keep drinking to get to the layover down to L .A. And I had already been to AA, so I was afraid people were going to see me in AA.

[347] People were recognizing me. I was about to start this movie and get the biggest paycheck I ever had.

[348] And I was, it was the proverbial.

[349] I was hiding in the bar.

[350] There's a mirror right here.

[351] I'm drinking jacking diets.

[352] And similarly, I go, okay, I wanted to have a lot of money.

[353] I wanted of people to recognize me. I wanted to be famous.

[354] I wanted all these things.

[355] I got them all and I'm the saddest and scaredest I've ever been in my life.

[356] Something's really fucking broken.

[357] And I've said on here, I'm so grateful that I had the luxury of getting the shit I was convinced was keeping me from being happy because if I hadn't gotten it, I don't know that I would have ever had that epiphany.

[358] If I didn't get any of the shit, I'd be the same miserable drunk but going, oh, it's because I didn't end up acting professionally or I didn't end up doing this.

[359] I just feel like the craziest gift to get what you want and still be miserable.

[360] Yeah, I mean, look, all I would say, yeah, everyone is on their own little trip, you know, but I was very, very, very scared to stop drinking.

[361] And, you know, there were years leading up where I thought, but what would that even mean?

[362] What would that even look like?

[363] And I will just say that on the other side of the fear is like I feel a million times better than I ever thought that I could.

[364] And even on bad days, which I have plenty of, I at least feel like I have a fighting chance at happiness.

[365] But I would have these thoughts in the morning of like, okay, today is the day I don't drink.

[366] And then like within 20 minutes and the only way I won't drink.

[367] today is if I have a drink now.

[368] Just trapped.

[369] Just completely trapped, you know?

[370] Yeah.

[371] I've heard over the years that, and I've never bumped into you since, but I've just always been really delighted to hear that.

[372] Oh, thanks.

[373] Well, likewise, man. I relapsed this year.

[374] That's a side note.

[375] I don't know if you heard, but I didn't drink, but I went out on opiates for a few months after some surgery.

[376] Yeah, I was a drag.

[377] How are you here now?

[378] Yeah.

[379] It's just so fucking good.

[380] Good.

[381] Ironically, I feel much happier in this four months than I was in the previous year of sobriety.

[382] Good, man. Good.

[383] Yeah.

[384] I have one or two career questions before we talk about our friend.

[385] First of all, this has been so fun.

[386] Yeah, totally.

[387] Is there a panic?

[388] Like, I was in the groundlings.

[389] All I wanted to do is host Sarient Live.

[390] Well, all I want to do is be on Sarant Live.

[391] Never got on Serient Live.

[392] Then I thought, well, maybe I can host it.

[393] All while knowing, I would also.

[394] so fucking panic.

[395] It's got to be the most stressful experience.

[396] And I was just curious what your experience hosting was like, which you did an amazing job.

[397] Oh, thanks.

[398] I am only comfortable between action and cut.

[399] It's like the time in my life when I feel like I'm not supposed to be doing anything else, when I'm not doing anything wrong.

[400] And all modesty aside, I feel as though I'm good at it.

[401] So between action and cut, I feel really comfortable.

[402] So, on, Honestly, I'm more scared at the time of all the lead -up.

[403] Yeah, for sure.

[404] To then, what happens is they take you back there, and you're standing by in a curtain.

[405] And then they're like, Jason Siegel, and the curtain's open.

[406] And then you have no time to be scared.

[407] It's just going.

[408] And you're rushing you around.

[409] They're putting costumes on.

[410] I had a really, really, really great time.

[411] I got to do it with the Muppets and all that stuff.

[412] That is one of my really fond memories.

[413] That weekend, okay, so that weekend was truly one of the best weekends of my life.

[414] I did David Letterman for the first time, and then I hosted Saturday Night Live.

[415] And then the next day, I got to meet Barack Obama at the White House because we did a screening of the Muppets for, like, kids at the White House, you know?

[416] White House, those kids.

[417] That was a weekend that I would probably bracket.

[418] as like if I could show younger self it would be hey everything's going to be okay you know oh wow and also probably four days later the high of that also dissipates yeah somebody once said to me i was going to sundance it was for end of the tour the david foster wallace movie and some people had seen it and word was already kind of going around that it was a good movie and that i was good in it and so i was headed there with the expectation of like oh Oh, this could be a good time.

[419] And she took me aside, and she said before I left, hey, it's really important that you be present for all of this because you are not going to be able to post enjoy it.

[420] And that is really stuck with me. It's like filming a concert.

[421] You don't go back and watch it.

[422] Right.

[423] You're missing it.

[424] If you're not enjoying the stuff while it's happening, you're missing it.

[425] Yeah.

[426] I don't look back at that weekend with visceral joy.

[427] I look back at it with intellectual understanding that it was joyful.

[428] Yeah.

[429] But it's gone.

[430] I don't get to have it again.

[431] You know?

[432] So you've got to have these moments while they're happening.

[433] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[434] We've all been there.

[435] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rations.

[436] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[437] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[438] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[439] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[440] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[441] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[442] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[443] What's up, guys?

[444] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[445] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[446] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[447] And I don't mean just friends.

[448] I mean the likes of Amy Poe.

[449] Kelle Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[450] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[451] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[452] Well, here's what happens to me in those situations or used to and increasingly don't anymore.

[453] It's like, oh, everyone's saying, because I do went to Sundance with the movie and it was a drama and people were saying nice stuff.

[454] And then instead of that being enough for me, I immediately go, I bet like Scorsese's going to see this.

[455] It's like I just, I have to build something even more spectacular in my brain that I think now the door's opening up to.

[456] And I'm now living in that fantasy and not even enjoying the one that happened.

[457] I've become obsessed over the past couple years with not missing it.

[458] Yeah.

[459] Yeah.

[460] It's on my mind a lot because I think that as we talked about with drinking, you miss a lot of time.

[461] And I think that with fear, you miss a lot of time.

[462] And so there's just a lot that I look back on and think, man, you missed it.

[463] Yeah.

[464] And I never want to miss it again.

[465] I'm with you, man. That's such a great goal to have.

[466] When you have kids, that is something you just get really vigilant about.

[467] Because for me, it's like, okay, I got to get this kid to sleep through the night.

[468] Objective one.

[469] Okay, I got to get this kid out of diapers.

[470] I got to get this kid off a bottle.

[471] I get this kid to walk.

[472] It can easily become this list of benchmarks.

[473] And then I have to go like, no, no, the period where they don't walk is its own thing to have loved and not wanted to get out of, but just to have enjoyed.

[474] And yeah, it's a challenge.

[475] Yeah, I have a friend who said something to me that I think about a lot.

[476] He said, he's a very anxious dude.

[477] He finally had a kid.

[478] And I was asking him about it.

[479] And he said, I wish I had had a kid much earlier in my life because having a kid alleviated all of my irrational anxieties.

[480] said I'm left with real anxieties about the safety of my child and all that, but I have no time to worry about all this other bullshit.

[481] I couldn't agree more.

[482] I've said on here a bunch of times it really right -sized all my concerns.

[483] To me, it was also probably one of the biggest things to help me get over my career obsession and my identity in that space because I was just like, the only thing that's important is these kids eat and they're healthy.

[484] And then everything else is gravy.

[485] And then ironically, once everything else was gravy, it went better.

[486] Totally.

[487] Well, you know, in terms of the career obsession stuff, I don't know, I'll share something that I've been thinking lately.

[488] I think there is a real freedom to this era that we're in, which I mourned for a minute, but there is so much content, so much stuff that I think that the days of something being a giant success or a giant failure are kind of gone.

[489] You watch something if you want to watch it.

[490] Most things now are just an icon on whatever streaming box you're going through and you watch it if it looks interesting.

[491] And if you start something you don't like, you just turn it off and watch something else.

[492] So while I think the chance of having these giant impacts has diminished, I also think that there is a great freedom to just make stuff and not worry so much about any of it.

[493] Like we were saying that, you know, oh, well, what if someone sees this and it becomes this and this?

[494] It's not what's happening anymore.

[495] Right.

[496] You know?

[497] Yes.

[498] Yes, I've mourned it as well and been so grateful that I will not have to have that Friday morning ever again with tracking and all that shit.

[499] Oh, yeah.

[500] Scary, right?

[501] It's just not worth it.

[502] It's not for me. For a lot of people, it is for me. It's just not worth it.

[503] And to your point, if you make something great, it just lives forever.

[504] People will find, like, we started search party.

[505] Well, we're five years late on that, but fucking A, we're enjoying the shit out of it right now.

[506] And we were three years late on the boys, but Obama said it was good.

[507] So we started it.

[508] Like, yeah, to me, it seems like a much more, and again, in sobriety, this was a trick I had to learn, is like, to live between three and seven.

[509] Like, that's the key.

[510] Yeah, right.

[511] And this whole industry feels like it has moved more towards living in between three and seven.

[512] Yes.

[513] Oh, that's great.

[514] Okay.

[515] Dispatches from elsewhere.

[516] I just want to say, as we learn that you and I are identical twins separated by five years, I'm in the future.

[517] Do you have a little sister?

[518] I do.

[519] I have a little sister five years younger.

[520] Uh -oh.

[521] Uh -oh.

[522] It's the multiverse.

[523] Oh, Jesus.

[524] In that multiverse, I could dunk.

[525] Yeah.

[526] I have a little sister.

[527] She's six years younger than me, but yeah.

[528] But this was a thing where I was like, can I, unless you had no say over this, which I find hard to believe you wrote it and directed it.

[529] But can we just digress on Sally Field for a second?

[530] If I had a time machine and I could marry any.

[531] actress other than my wife of course I would go back to 1977 I'd walk onto the set of Hooper and I would propose to Sally Field yeah I mean listen current Sally Fields but I'd like to have kids with her and stuff so just that's the reason the time machine is yeah Sally Field is a fucking bombshell I'd still love it it was a dream you know you write this thing it's like everything you've ever written you have no idea really if other people are going to respond to something that came from inside of your brain.

[532] Then there's this other element of, please believe me. Like, you know, that's the subconscious thing happening.

[533] It's the subtext of these meetings is like, I'm also going to direct it.

[534] I've never directed before.

[535] There's all sorts of please believe me built into this meeting.

[536] Between Sally, listen, I got Sally Field, Richard E. Grant, Andre Benjamin, and Eve Lindley, who's this amazing discovery.

[537] I did feel like I just felt really fucking lucky.

[538] You know, there's no, I don't need to be too verbose about it.

[539] I just felt lucky.

[540] You know, you go, to go back to this thing, this, like, background belief of being, you know, that you're invited by mistake or that you're a con man. I think as I've gotten older, I've realized that nobody got the instruction book.

[541] Right.

[542] Everyone is just doing it.

[543] And everyone is just learning as they go.

[544] So you can also.

[545] I think that the big key to lack of anxiety around it is the not pretending that that's not what's happening.

[546] Right.

[547] Owning it.

[548] Just own it.

[549] It's my first time directing.

[550] If I do anything that bugs you, let me know.

[551] It is not intentional.

[552] I'm like doing this for the first time.

[553] I had discussions like that.

[554] And I think that that was very free.

[555] Someone who had directed themselves said to me, the other thing I would say to people is, hey, I'm directing myself, which I've never done, and I'm going to be in scenes with you while directing, and this is going to be weird.

[556] Yeah.

[557] You know?

[558] So you, like, say it, and then it kind of breaks the ice a little bit.

[559] Well, when we were shooting chips, and almost all the scenes are me and Michael Payne, Michael Payne is a much better actor than I am.

[560] There's no question.

[561] It's objectively, he's better of an actor.

[562] But I'd yell cut, and then I would give him some suggestions.

[563] And this was going on for two weeks, right?

[564] And all of a sudden occurred to me, I said, I said, Michael, I hope you know, before I talk to you, I'm like, oh, you fuck that up, make that faster.

[565] You got to do, like, I'm giving myself notes.

[566] They're just not out loud.

[567] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[568] And I hope you know that I don't think I'm doing this great.

[569] Yeah, totally, totally.

[570] And I'm like, I can even say them out loud if you'd like before I then talk to you, because I want you to know I don't think I'm just fucking crushing this over.

[571] Yeah, you just break yourself for a minute.

[572] front of him.

[573] Okay, our friend.

[574] Now, compounded with an already challenging movie world, then you have COVID, and it sucks as an actor.

[575] We've talked to some directors that, you know, that's their last two years, and this is when it's coming out at six drive -ins.

[576] It's so heartbreaking for them in that respect.

[577] But I imagine you had different plans for this movie that it would be, you'd be going all over the place with it.

[578] Well, we got to go to TIF.

[579] the Toronto Film Festival before everything shut down.

[580] Oh, that's nice.

[581] Yes.

[582] So that was really exciting.

[583] And yeah, I mean, I suppose, like you said, theoretical other visions of what would happen, but I actually wasn't that attached to them.

[584] I feel like, to be honest, right now, a movie coming out that people can watch at home that is of this subject matter feels totally good to me. You know, the movie is heartbreaking in a lot, of ways, but it is also a very uplifting story.

[585] It's true.

[586] It's true story about someone emerging from a really terrible tragedy of losing his wife.

[587] Being able to process this as a story of friendship, because basically his best friend, their best friend, who I play comes in real life, came to take care of them and just lived with them for two years.

[588] Two years?

[589] Yeah, gave up his life and lived with them throughout the process.

[590] So there is a little part of me that feels like the movie became more relevant over this past year where these stories of friendship, despite all odds, and over these really bizarre circumstances, there's a new meaning to it.

[591] So I'm pretty happy it's coming out now.

[592] It looks beautiful.

[593] And it looks like the three of you have that thing that casts magically have or they don't, which is it looks like you guys love each other.

[594] like that feels clear, and you just get kind of lucky, right?

[595] Yes.

[596] I think there was a few things at play.

[597] One, Dakota and I have known each other for a long time, like 10 years or so.

[598] And so we have a deep, rich friendship that we were able to just kind of realize on screen.

[599] Casey and I don't know each other, didn't know each other, but it wanted to work together for a long time and had sort of like lightly touched along the way, almost working together.

[600] It never quite worked out.

[601] So we got to know each other on screen, which is what the movie required.

[602] That worked out really well because there's some improv in it.

[603] And it was just very natural.

[604] And then the reason I think it all works is the director is from documentary.

[605] She's done a narrative before, but she directed Blackfish.

[606] Oh, boy.

[607] The SeaWorld movie.

[608] Sure.

[609] And a few other great documentaries.

[610] But she comes from this point of view of like wanting all the scenes to feel like, Like a camera is a fly on the wall catching real moments as opposed to a movie like this could very easily be a melodrama.

[611] Yeah, yeah.

[612] But it doesn't feel that way.

[613] It feels like you are catching some real moments on screen.

[614] So she kind of strove towards that, like, hey, this scene, I just need you and Casey.

[615] This is a scene about YouTube getting along.

[616] So I'm just going to roll the cameras and can you guys get along for the next, you know, five minutes.

[617] That's fun.

[618] Yeah.

[619] Just side note, we interviewed him, and he and our neighbors.

[620] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[621] I know where you guys live.

[622] That is such a cool neighborhood.

[623] Oh, I'm so delighted to be here.

[624] Yeah, kind of moved here by accident and then just over time, been like, wow, I accidentally landed in the best place in L .A. It's the coolest, yeah.

[625] And then Monica just bought a house across the street from us.

[626] Oh, congratulations.

[627] Yeah, yeah.

[628] But at any rate, when I interviewed him, I just, I was honest about the fact I said, you know, every time we bump into each other and we start talking.

[629] All I'm thinking is, oh, this guy thinks I'm a terrible actor because he's such a good actor.

[630] He's just thinking, oh, this guy's a buffoon.

[631] He's a monkey.

[632] And he said, he goes, oh, well, all I'm thinking about is this time six years ago.

[633] I yelled Merry Christmas in a funny voice.

[634] And then you said it back in what I thought was a mocking tone.

[635] Yeah.

[636] And I thought, oh, he thinks I'm blank.

[637] And I was like, this is fucking perfect.

[638] Just a couple of insecure dudes.

[639] Yeah, but you know what?

[640] It's everybody.

[641] It's everybody.

[642] It is.

[643] It is.

[644] He is a truly incredible actor, and I learned so much from him to the point that I was very lucky I got to shoot something over the break, over quarantine.

[645] There was that little lull in the middle where it seemed like things might be under control, and we went and shot something in Humble.

[646] And on the drive up, I just realized that I did not know how to play this character that I had been hired to play.

[647] I took the part because I felt like I'll have this figured out by the time I show up and I was getting into panic mode and I didn't know what to do and I literally just called Casey and I explained to him what I had to do and what I was getting hung up on and he talked me through it and gave me advice and stuff.

[648] I felt really, really lucky.

[649] So I'll tell you, man, I'm sure you've experienced this.

[650] But the power of I don't know or like I need help is like, whoa, what a tool.

[651] it's the very hardest thing for me to do in life that's all the reason my relapse like really took off because i was too either too proud i'm supposed to know everything about this i've been doing this for 16 years i'm in some gray area i'm afraid that the gray area will count as a black area so i'm not going to tell anyone you know just just right back into all the shit where i'm incapable of humbling myself and saying i'm scared and confused and lost and And for me, that can be lethal.

[652] I mean, it's literally what dispatches from elsewhere is about.

[653] And by the time you get to the finale, I play Jason Siegel.

[654] And that whole process of opening up to sharing these feelings that I cling to, like, Gallum, you know, like these dark feelings that are my precious, releasing them has completely taken away their power.

[655] Maybe not completely, but a lot, you know?

[656] Yeah.

[657] I've learned to do it in relationships.

[658] I can say it to Kristen.

[659] I have been able to for probably eight years, where I'm starting to get really irrationally upset about some pretty inane thing.

[660] Yeah.

[661] And I'm now smart enough to go, I'm afraid of something.

[662] I need a half hour to figure out what I'm afraid of.

[663] Yeah.

[664] And then I'll go to her and I'll say the thing I'm afraid of and she'll go, that's not going to happen.

[665] And then it's completely over.

[666] But if I don't do that, it just builds into, you know a fucking skyscraper yeah i mean it's just you bouncing around your own head like king of your own skull -sized kingdom just you and you and the dysfunction right yeah run in the shell yeah well the movie looks beautiful and all three of you are great actors and where can people stream it and when can they stream it the 22nd and it'll be in whatever theaters or if people are going to theaters i don't know i can't imagine but it'll it'll be on all the streaming thing.

[667] So iTunes, Amazon, on demand, all that stuff.

[668] Now, is one upside is that you can do a whole press tour from your library?

[669] I mean, yeah, we did it the other day.

[670] It was, it was a delight.

[671] Like, it also, you know, I think there are some things from this pandemic that we will probably keep, you know, all this, all this unnecessary drive time and all that stuff.

[672] But I do think, you know, I was thinking about the future of movies and all that and like, wow, we've really learned that you can just take in all this entertainment at home.

[673] But I do think that maybe on the other side of all this, the idea of going out to a date night and going to see a movie, like, fuck, maybe it even will bounce back the other direction, where we will recognize how important this stuff is.

[674] We've had a couple different.

[675] We had an organizational sociologist, and we had a psychologist on it, and both predicted that the roaring 20s is coming.

[676] Like, that was the response to the 1918 pandemic was the roaring 20s.

[677] So a lot of people are of the opinion that people are going to go fucking berserk.

[678] And when you just said going to date to the movies, I had the same chills in my body as when I was looking forward to going to Cancun on spring break in 11th grade.

[679] It sounds that exotic and sexy.

[680] Yeah.

[681] And you know what?

[682] There's like these versions of movie theaters that are opening now that are, they're like, talk about the Roaring 20s.

[683] It's like, you know, fun and you have a dinner and a bar.

[684] and then, you know, the movie theater is made to be really comfy and nice, and it's, you know, I think the other thing is that when you're watching this stuff at home, it all becomes so disposable.

[685] You know, if you don't like it, 10 minutes in, you just shut it off and you're texting and, you know, all of this stuff.

[686] I made a habit now of trying to, oh, you spend so much time over quarantine.

[687] Okay, now I'm going to watch one of the movies that you say you've seen at dinner parties, but you haven't actually seen it.

[688] And we're going to put the phone down and we're just going to watch it.

[689] And you know what I discovered?

[690] is it's fucking hard.

[691] Oh, sure.

[692] And that's a bummer.

[693] Yeah.

[694] It is a bummer that I cannot sit and watch a masterpiece for an hour and a half without seeing if I've been texted.

[695] You know?

[696] Checking in on who's thinking about me. Yes.

[697] But you know the thing I have great guilt over is there are some of these shows where we have invested three seasons, four seasons.

[698] And I won't make it halfway through the first episode of whatever season.

[699] I'm like, oh, I'm out.

[700] They fucked it up.

[701] yeah and i'm like jesus what a fair weather friend i've got like 36 hours invested in this and like halfway through season six episode one i'm like nah they i don't know what happened i'm gone well even when you're writing there's like you know there's an old old impulse of you write this thing so well that like when they watch it the second time they'll see xyz you're like nope not anymore bro Do not.

[702] No one's watching it a second time.

[703] No. Not with a thousand hours of new content coming out every week.

[704] Oh, well, again, grateful that we're on the same road.

[705] I adore you.

[706] Likewise, man. Really nice to talk to you.

[707] Kristen told me to tell you hi.

[708] Best co -star ever?

[709] Oh, easily.

[710] By far.

[711] Well, good luck with our friend January 22nd.

[712] Buy it.

[713] Put your phone down.

[714] Yeah.

[715] You'll find out that the people were thinking about you.

[716] You'll just be delayed by an hour and a half.

[717] Yes, exactly.

[718] Yeah, and they'll want me more.

[719] Yes, it's not going anywhere.

[720] All right, Jason.

[721] Well, adore you.

[722] It's a pleasure.

[723] It's really great to talk to you again, by the way.

[724] It's been such a long time.

[725] I agree.

[726] I hope we'll bump into each other in a secret capacity.

[727] Okay.

[728] Yeah, you got it.

[729] All right, you got it.

[730] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[731] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[732] Welcome to another session of mask construction just on the other side of the window.

[733] Do you think you can hear all the beeping?

[734] What did you say?

[735] Another episode of mask construction.

[736] What's mass?

[737] Oh, mass construction.

[738] Massive construction.

[739] I heard mask.

[740] Oh, sure.

[741] And that's a hot button topic right now.

[742] Mask corruption.

[743] Mask is a hot button topic?

[744] Well, everyone's wearing masks.

[745] Oh, sure, sure, corona masks.

[746] Yeah, there's construction.

[747] Your pool is getting a dog.

[748] And there's a lot of reversing of the heavy equipment, and there's a lot of beeping.

[749] So if you hear that, don't worry that a car is reversing into you.

[750] It's a big piece of heavy earth -moving equipment backing into our building.

[751] I do hate that when I'm listening to, it happens in music a lot where I have the radio on.

[752] And then a lot of, like, the beats have, like, siren sounds.

[753] And I get very anxious because I'm like, oh, there's a siren, and then really it's the music.

[754] And I'm sorry if we're doing that to people.

[755] Yeah, that's why I kind of wanted to put it out there.

[756] Like, if you hear beeping, well, gosh, now we're in a pickle because what if there's also real beeping?

[757] Oh, my God.

[758] Check your surroundings.

[759] Caterpillar bulldozers backing up into somebody and they think it's just on the show.

[760] Oh, fuck.

[761] Well, still be aware of your surroundings.

[762] And also, it's probably us.

[763] We cover it all legally?

[764] I think we did it.

[765] Jason Siegel.

[766] One of your many crushes.

[767] Yep.

[768] Yeah, I'm not going to say no. I know.

[769] I think he's, well, funny, obviously.

[770] Aby.

[771] Smart, talented, cute.

[772] Tall.

[773] Tall.

[774] Get the oaf.

[775] What was this?

[776] Ride the Oaf.

[777] Oh, my God.

[778] That was so funny.

[779] I mean, he's so sad.

[780] It made me say that Anna was really funny.

[781] I wish I could go back in time and stand up for him.

[782] Although it was his friends.

[783] Didn't it sound like just they didn't maybe no, that was a bad thing to say.

[784] Exactly.

[785] So sometimes people have to say, like, hey, actually, he doesn't like that.

[786] Oaf's a pejorative.

[787] No one wants that.

[788] No one wants to be called an oaf and no one wants to ride the Oath.

[789] Well, apparently everyone wanted to ride the Oaf.

[790] No one wants to be the Oaf that people ride on.

[791] Probably not.

[792] And also, if you like the attention, maybe you're like, oh, that's attention.

[793] I'll take it.

[794] No. Okay.

[795] Okay.

[796] I'm going back in time.

[797] I'm fixing this.

[798] Okay.

[799] We should tell people that we woke up so early today.

[800] We really did.

[801] For us, let's be clear.

[802] Yeah.

[803] Most people have to get up pretty early.

[804] But yeah, I was up at 6.

[805] You're up at 6 .45 and we did an interview at 7 .30 a .m., which is not what we do.

[806] It's not ideal, but it was great.

[807] It was phenomenal.

[808] We both didn't want to do it because it was too early.

[809] And I was being a brat about it.

[810] I'm not going to say if you were I was.

[811] I was.

[812] And it was wonderful.

[813] And I was delighted.

[814] And then it was over.

[815] I was like, oh, my gosh, it's only 9 o 'clock.

[816] And we've already done a good interview today.

[817] I know.

[818] Do you think we should be scheduling them for that time?

[819] Yeah.

[820] I kind of do, too.

[821] Well, I mean, I hate waking up.

[822] Howard Stern's whole career has existed between 5 a .m. and 10 a .m. That's what his hours are.

[823] Does he take naps?

[824] Right, but that's not.

[825] But not like Eric's TMS that are just naps.

[826] I think how enlightened he'd be if he really was teaming.

[827] Every time he went.

[828] So Eric, our friend Eric, we're always like, where's Eric?

[829] Oh, he's meditating.

[830] Like, he meditates a lot, but really he's just napping.

[831] That's right.

[832] That's okay, though.

[833] That's okay.

[834] He deserves it.

[835] Of course he does.

[836] Everyone deserves a nap.

[837] I have a hard time accepting.

[838] I do.

[839] That's my big conundrum.

[840] One time you shamed me about taking naps.

[841] When?

[842] I don't want to get into it.

[843] Okay.

[844] More how the sausage is made.

[845] So I left, and you and Kristen recorded a guest.

[846] Yes, we did.

[847] home with the full intention to work out.

[848] And then I thought, I was laying my bed for one second before I rally to go work out.

[849] And then I took a nap.

[850] I took a 30 -minute nap.

[851] And I should have just kept going, really.

[852] But I felt very guilty about it.

[853] How could you feel guilty if you were asleep?

[854] Well, because I kept waking up.

[855] And I'm like, oh, I got to get off.

[856] Do you say an alarm?

[857] Yeah, I said an alarm.

[858] And it goes off and then I hit snooze.

[859] And I feel bad when I'm hitting snooze.

[860] So did you do like a 10 -minute nap and then two snoozes?

[861] Two snoozes.

[862] I think I did a 20 -minute nap plus two snooze.

[863] Oh, 40, okay.

[864] I think my snooze is set to five.

[865] Is you set to 10?

[866] Yeah, mine's standard 10?

[867] I think it's 10.

[868] On the iPony, it's 10.

[869] Well, fuck, maybe it was a 40 -minute nap.

[870] Probably it was.

[871] And my shame is having me shave off 10 minutes right now.

[872] Maybe it was a 30 -minute nap plus two snoozes, 50 minutes.

[873] No, I definitely was like, oh, 20 minutes is supposed to be the ideal nap.

[874] Yeah, it is.

[875] It's supposed to be what they call a power nap.

[876] Yeah, a powerful nap.

[877] Yeah.

[878] And so I thought, well, bang on a powerful nap, then work out, then go back and record with Monica.

[879] 20 minutes is never enough time.

[880] I've tried to power nap before, and it just doesn't work.

[881] For me, it's like an hour minimally, sometimes too.

[882] Yeah, yeah.

[883] Depending on how tired I am.

[884] Tired a lot.

[885] Okay, anyway, Jason, very attractive.

[886] Yes, yes.

[887] And allowed to take naps if he wants.

[888] I wonder.

[889] You said 1 ,000 hours of new content come out every week.

[890] I mean, you were saying it kind of generic.

[891] You were just like...

[892] Yeah, I was being hyperbolic.

[893] In 2018, Netflix put out nearly 90 ,000 minutes, close to 1 ,500 hours of original series, movies, and other productions.

[894] That's nearly nine consecutive weeks of binge watching.

[895] It would have taken more than four hours of streaming per day every day of 2018 to watch all of it.

[896] Oh, wow.

[897] Yeah.

[898] Wow, wow, wow.

[899] Four hours a day every day.

[900] Yeah.

[901] Do you think some people have done that?

[902] Last year, probably.

[903] Not in 2000.

[904] That was 2018 staff.

[905] Oh, gosh.

[906] I can't wait to see the numbers on 2020.

[907] Yeah, 2020, I'm sure, yeah.

[908] I just wonder if anyone could be interested in everything on Netflix.

[909] There's such variety.

[910] You've got to go through all the teen shows.

[911] You've got to do the children's shows.

[912] Oh, that's each.

[913] Yeah, that's a lot.

[914] You got to do horror.

[915] You know, you got to do all of it.

[916] Bridgerton, I think I heard on the radio yesterday.

[917] Bridgerton is the most watched show on Netflix.

[918] Today.

[919] No. Yeah.

[920] Really?

[921] Yeah.

[922] I haven't watched it, nor did I hear it was that great.

[923] Well, people love it.

[924] And I'm so glad for Shonda Rhymes.

[925] And I'm not surprised because, of course, Shaonda Rimes did that.

[926] Sure, yeah.

[927] That makes sense.

[928] Okay, and one other thing about Netflix.

[929] So in 2017, users watched more than 100.

[930] 140 million hours of content per day or a billion hours per week all the users a billion hours per week that was 2017 before they even had lupin yeah that's four years ago yeah it's got to be double that now do you want to tell people what happened about lupin no because you know i don't like ever being critical of people's but it's more about us You don't have to be correct.

[931] Okay, this is what happened.

[932] Okay.

[933] I love it.

[934] Can we do some precursors?

[935] Sure.

[936] You and I have almost identical tastes.

[937] The middle of our Venn diagram is large.

[938] 90%.

[939] And it's more than that because when we object to a thing, it's generally the exact same objection.

[940] Like whenever, yeah, you, Kristen and I are watching a show, and then we'll all check in.

[941] And then generally you and I, if we have a complaint, It's generally the exact same complaint.

[942] Often, yeah.

[943] Yeah, often.

[944] Not often.

[945] That's right.

[946] Okay, so I just wanted that to be in the ether.

[947] Okay.

[948] So then I was recommended Lupin, and I watched it, and I just thoroughly enjoyed that show.

[949] Yeah.

[950] I was eating it up.

[951] I loved it.

[952] Really enjoyable.

[953] I recommend.

[954] And I told Dax and Kristen to watch it, and they did.

[955] They started it.

[956] Yeah.

[957] And then I chose it.

[958] checked in yesterday with Dax, I said, well, what do you think of Lubin?

[959] They had watched three episodes out of the five.

[960] And he said, I'm scared to tell it to you.

[961] And I said, oh, you don't like it.

[962] And he said, well, it's just, okay, then he had some criticisms that we won't get into because I don't, you don't want to do that thing.

[963] Yeah.

[964] By the way, I liked it.

[965] I didn't dislike it.

[966] I watched three.

[967] I'm going to watch the remaining two.

[968] Yeah.

[969] Yeah.

[970] You had criticisms.

[971] And you were laying them out for me. And I was like, okay.

[972] like sure okay so you know we have different opinions on this and then you just kept going yeah I did because I was having a lot of cognitive dissonance I'm like these are things you and I object to why don't you why aren't you objecting you I was having them you know at that point it was deeper than the show I was like wait no we have we have a similar sensibility and now I feel like it's in jeopardy I just wanted to hear your take on those things like why why didn't that bother you it seems like that would be something that would bother you?

[973] Sure, sure, sure.

[974] And you were more just, which is totally in your right to do, it's just like, you didn't feel the need to defend why that didn't bother you, you're just like, yeah, I like it.

[975] Yeah.

[976] And I was like, okay.

[977] I thought it would be, I thought yes, I kind of thought it'd be more of a debate.

[978] Yeah.

[979] Yeah.

[980] What was the code we learned?

[981] Was it Adam?

[982] Yeah, Adam taught us.

[983] I should have said, do you want to dance?

[984] Yeah, and I would have said no. Oh, yeah.

[985] That could have saved the whole thing.

[986] Damn it.

[987] So I gave an analogy.

[988] Uh -huh, pickles.

[989] No, you made it pickles.

[990] I said, look, I already know, I already told you I liked it.

[991] So, like, there's no reason for you to keep going on and on about what's wrong with it.

[992] Right.

[993] And I equated it to when I'm eating something, like if I'm eating a tuna sandwich, like a tuna is a great.

[994] It's a polarizing sandwich.

[995] It's a great example for this.

[996] So if I'm eating a tuna sandwich and I'm loving it and somebody.

[997] Like you got it at McDonald's.

[998] And someone sits there, if you're sitting there and you're like, ugh, I hate tuna.

[999] Yuck.

[1000] Tuna's gross.

[1001] And by the way, people do this a lot when other people are eating.

[1002] And it is such a pet peeve of mine because I'm like, I'm eating it.

[1003] Yeah, yeah.

[1004] There's no reason for you to say it's gross.

[1005] You cannot like it.

[1006] You don't have to say that.

[1007] Yeah, I don't really do that.

[1008] So what I change, I said, I don't think that's super analogous.

[1009] What would be more analogous is - You had to upgrade my analogy.

[1010] Well, to make it, because we both, in your scenario, we both like tuna.

[1011] That's the problem.

[1012] You and I like the same stuff.

[1013] So I said it's more like you and I love pickles, but we hate spicy pickles.

[1014] And then I come in and I see that you're eating a spicy pickle.

[1015] And I go, that's interesting.

[1016] Why this spicy pickle?

[1017] That's the analogy I think makes sense.

[1018] Anywho, so if somebody's eating tuna, like maybe you just don't say you don't like.

[1019] You can not like it.

[1020] You can not like it.

[1021] Right.

[1022] It's not for you.

[1023] That's okay.

[1024] But like, it's kind of shaming.

[1025] Also, tuna's very approachable.

[1026] Just a broader statement.

[1027] It's not that offensive.

[1028] You put enough mayonnaise in it.

[1029] You really just have a mayonnaise sandwich, which all good sandwiches are ultimately just mayonnaise sandwiches.

[1030] The chicken salad we love?

[1031] That's a mayonnaise and mustard sandwich?

[1032] It is.

[1033] Okay.

[1034] So one of my favorite quotes parables ever, ever is that David Foster Wallace This is Water.

[1035] It's come up so much in the last three weeks.

[1036] It has.

[1037] And I want to read it.

[1038] I mean, I'm not going to read the whole thing.

[1039] It's a commencement speech that David Foster Wallace gave.

[1040] But he then turned into a whole book, I believe.

[1041] It just got published.

[1042] And it's a, I think it's a Kenyon College.

[1043] Yeah, Kenyon College.

[1044] And I'll just read the beginning.

[1045] This is the part.

[1046] That's important.

[1047] Greetings, Parents, and Congratulations to Kenyans graduating class of 2005.

[1048] There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, Morning, boys, how's the water?

[1049] And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, what the hell is water?

[1050] Okay, then there's a lot more, but that's the parable.

[1051] That's a setup.

[1052] That's a setup.

[1053] And then the speech is called, this is water.

[1054] So it's really profound, I think.

[1055] that we're all moving through life and there are things all around us and we miss them and we miss them it's white noise yeah that's why i like traveling so much therein lies why i have wanderless because you file your own environment the one you're in the most you file it into white noise like your brain gets so good at canceling out all these distractions but when you go somewhere else you're kind of forced to take it all in you're about your subconscious isn't hasn't identified this is extraneous.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] And so you kind of notice everything.

[1058] Like I'll get like super into the way the signs look over there, simply because they're different.

[1059] I don't like how signs look here.

[1060] I'm not like enamored with a fucking mile per hour sign.

[1061] But when I'm in Europe and I see a little blue circle around, I'm like, look at that.

[1062] That is interesting.

[1063] Everything becomes interesting.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] I hope I don't run out of places to go.

[1066] You won't.

[1067] Okay.

[1068] There's so many.

[1069] There are.

[1070] Maybe that's why, um, what's this, Tush got into underwater exploration.

[1071] The octopus guy?

[1072] The octopus guy.

[1073] Oh, no, no. The director of Titanic and Jim Cameron.

[1074] Jim Cameron.

[1075] Maybe he saw every place on TerraFirma and I was like, I got to go see some new shit under the sea.

[1076] That's interesting theory.

[1077] Just came up with it.

[1078] Wow.

[1079] You probably can't tell.

[1080] You probably think I've been working for a decade.

[1081] Yeah, it feels like that's really been fleshed out.

[1082] Okay.

[1083] You missed this because you stood up to show.

[1084] Jason, the picture on the wall that we have from us weekly that says, would you date Dax?

[1085] Seventy -two percent said no. You got up to show him that.

[1086] And while you were getting up, Jason said, man, you're fit.

[1087] I know, I'm so bummed.

[1088] I missed that.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] But you said you missed it too until you were editing.

[1091] I missed it during the hullabaloo that you were creating when you got up.

[1092] Okay.

[1093] But when I was editing, I heard it.

[1094] Uh -huh.

[1095] What a bummer?

[1096] I know, because what would you have said?

[1097] I would have said, thank you so much.

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] So I'm saying it now.

[1100] Thank you so much, Jason.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] I wish I would have heard that.

[1103] Wow.

[1104] And you know what's interesting is he didn't even know what I was about to show him.

[1105] So it was kind of an antidote to what I was showing him.

[1106] I was showing him this disapproval of me. Right.

[1107] And he was giving approval of me. And it could have canceled it all out at the same time.

[1108] That's true.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] You said that you guys are five years late on search party.

[1111] That's correct.

[1112] Is it exactly five years?

[1113] Oh, wow.

[1114] I wanted to correct that fact, but I can't.

[1115] Oh, you have.

[1116] assumed it was newer?

[1117] Yeah, I was like, well, it's probably like four years or something.

[1118] Yeah, yeah.

[1119] Oh, good.

[1120] That's good.

[1121] I certainly wouldn't have bet any amount of money on that gas.

[1122] It just felt right in the moment.

[1123] And it was.

[1124] Kind of like a multiple choice test.

[1125] You always answer.

[1126] Well, they say the first one you are drawn to, statistically is usually the right one.

[1127] Instinct, yeah.

[1128] You're also always supposed to answer multiple choice because, you know, you could be right.

[1129] 25 % chance.

[1130] That's right.

[1131] Well, sometimes 20, depending on if they have like a all of the above.

[1132] Oh, sure.

[1133] A, B, C, D. A, B, C, D. E. Yeah.

[1134] Did you guys have Scantrons or was that?

[1135] You did.

[1136] Big time.

[1137] Most of my tests were Scantron, I believe.

[1138] Oh, I didn't know if that was like a past your, yeah, past your time.

[1139] I'm actually surprised it was still in business when you got there.

[1140] Oh, yeah.

[1141] Do you think there's still a thing?

[1142] Is it still the best way?

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] I wasn't great at filling out those bubbles.

[1145] gave me anxiety.

[1146] I always thought I was going to, like, get it out of the bubble and get it into another bubble and I was going to give.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] Some people, I think, try to put a little bit in a lot of them.

[1149] Sprinkle it?

[1150] Yeah, so that, like, they'd get the right hands.

[1151] That can't work.

[1152] What if it's as easy as just filling in all five bubbles.

[1153] Okay.

[1154] Okay.

[1155] So he said that he over quarantine has decided he's going to watch a movie that at dinner parties, he says he watches, but he's never seen.

[1156] And I wanted to know what that is for you.

[1157] Hmm.

[1158] I don't think I pretend that I've seen movies I haven't seen, but I'm embarrassed at times that there's movies I haven't seen.

[1159] Like?

[1160] Oh, boy.

[1161] It's a wonderful life.

[1162] A miracle on 30 -whatever street?

[1163] 31st.

[1164] Right now I'm...

[1165] Is it in the 40s?

[1166] Or is it 32nd?

[1167] 34.

[1168] Oh, wow.

[1169] Oh, wow.

[1170] Gantron would have come up.

[1171] Yeah, we would have, see, my instinct was bad.

[1172] Yeah, mine too.

[1173] Let's see what, but I guess I'm not a terrible.

[1174] Well, I'm a little embarrassed.

[1175] Oh, Mr. Smith goes to Washington.

[1176] There's like a lot of movies, too.

[1177] I know the whole plot of, but I haven't seen the movie because they're kind of ubiquitous in pop culture.

[1178] Oh, Atticus Finch to kill a mockingbird.

[1179] Haven't seen it.

[1180] But did you read it?

[1181] No. Oh, so good.

[1182] One of my favorite books of all time.

[1183] It is.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] I got it.

[1186] I got it Here's exactly what happened Wow I'm in a second time in this fact check I'm in this position I was going to go I can't even say it For some reason I got the book In preparation of something I went and saw the play And I walked out I couldn't stand it Oh Because there's an adult playing a child And I can't do that Oh wow How do you feel about adult adults playing children In a play I could probably buy in Yeah you could do it If they were good But they're acting like a little kid like oh check dad yeah that's hard why didn't they just cast a kid oh i don't know i can't watch a doll's be like oh shit come on pa okay oh my god it's so rough for me that might be my number one thing okay go on okay so i got the book and i was going to listen to it on tape and i and i had just started and then i had that bad experience and so then i just bailed out does that make sense yeah it is a beautiful book.

[1187] Top -notch book.

[1188] What was the theme in it that you think you responded to?

[1189] You like people that are underestimated, right?

[1190] And Atticus Finch was underestimated?

[1191] Well, there was a lot going on, but I don't want to talk about it.

[1192] Okay, wow.

[1193] It's, there's a lot happening.

[1194] It's too much.

[1195] It's too important to you.

[1196] I know what it is.

[1197] It's too important of a book for you to not do a good job.

[1198] To do like this halfway.

[1199] Yeah.

[1200] Yeah, I respect that.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] I respect that.

[1203] Do you want to schedule a standalone episode where you do a book report on...

[1204] Okay.

[1205] Okay, so that's one you haven't seen.

[1206] Right, that I feel like I should have seen.

[1207] What are yours?

[1208] Mine are boring, and I don't even know if I believe in them.

[1209] I mean, I haven't seen a lot of movies.

[1210] So I'm sure I've lied in the past about having seen...

[1211] Groundhogs Day?

[1212] Especially comedies.

[1213] I haven't seen Groundhog's Day, but I don't know that I've lied about that.

[1214] You know one I've definitely lied about?

[1215] Oh, here we go.

[1216] Happy Gilmore.

[1217] Okay.

[1218] Never seen it.

[1219] Right.

[1220] And definitely have acted like I've seen it.

[1221] Okay.

[1222] Interesting.

[1223] That's fun.

[1224] Old school?

[1225] I've seen old school.

[1226] Okay.

[1227] I hadn't seen Tommy Boy until last weekend.

[1228] Right.

[1229] At Chris Farley.

[1230] I may have lied about that.

[1231] But I'm also, I'm pretty good at owning it.

[1232] We play a really fun game.

[1233] It's an improv warm -up game.

[1234] But I've brought it to the group.

[1235] And, you know, you're in a circle.

[1236] You go around in the circle and you say a name of a movie that you think everyone in the group has seen.

[1237] Oh, right.

[1238] You're trying to get to 10.

[1239] And you would be so shocked how almost impossible it is.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] I was shocked.

[1242] We played it in Indio for Eric's birthday.

[1243] Eric Ding, Ding, ding, ding again.

[1244] And yes, the movies like Jurassic Park, people didn't see.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] It's wild.

[1247] Exactly.

[1248] Jurassic Park is one.

[1249] that I have not seen fully through, but I've seen so many parts, not like clips, but like I've seen half the movie, then I went away.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] And then I've seen like the other half a different time.

[1252] You know, I've just pieced it together, but I've never sat through a full viewing of Jurassic Park.

[1253] Okay.

[1254] Well, then you couldn't really.

[1255] Would you say yes, though?

[1256] You'd say this.

[1257] I would because.

[1258] Because you've seen enough of there.

[1259] I've seen it.

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] I just haven't seen it in one sitting.

[1262] Okay.

[1263] It's really hard to do, and it's really fun.

[1264] This is a big ding, ding, ding.

[1265] when we were playing that game in Indio, Eric said hunting for Michelle.

[1266] Oh, my God, you're right.

[1267] Michelle Marshall.

[1268] Yeah, he's trying to say forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] He said hunting for...

[1271] Michelle Geyser.

[1272] Something like that.

[1273] All of it was all fucked up.

[1274] And everyone was like, what?

[1275] No, no one's seen that movie.

[1276] And he's like, no, Kristen.

[1277] And we're like, oh, my God, forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[1278] I didn't fan out, but I love that movie.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] I really do.

[1281] I think it's so good.

[1282] It's a damn good movie.

[1283] It is.

[1284] That's all.

[1285] That was it?

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] Okay.

[1288] I mean, I have some other stuff, but that's boring.

[1289] Okay.

[1290] I want to hear what's boring.

[1291] Okay.

[1292] I wrote, Oh, hi, getaway, Ted, and Mary, because you said they're a gateway.

[1293] Oh.

[1294] No, I wrote Gateway, Ted, and Mary.

[1295] and Ted Danson and Mary Steamburgeon.

[1296] I just didn't know.

[1297] Not everyone knows that.

[1298] They live in Ohio and so people stay with them who know them.

[1299] Yeah, yeah.

[1300] I think maybe it sounded name dropy if I was going to say the whole thing, but you're right.

[1301] What a confusing thing.

[1302] Who the fuck's Ted and Mary?

[1303] But yes, when Kristen was working with Papa Ted, as we call them, they invited us and it's Eden.

[1304] That's awesome.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] Although I don't think they still have that house.

[1307] Oh, really?

[1308] Yeah, that's what I think.

[1309] Well, don't go searching for Ted and Mary and Ohio.

[1310] Yeah, look elsewhere.

[1311] Oh, do you think we could describe the backing up of the bulldozer as ding, ding, ding, ding?

[1312] It's more of a beep, beep, beep, but...

[1313] Because I was just going to say ding, ding, ding, ding, the beep, beep, beep stopped.

[1314] Oh, but why is that a ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1315] Because we started the fact check discussing it.

[1316] Now it's over.

[1317] Oh, right as the fact check's ending.

[1318] Oh, wow.

[1319] That feels like a ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1320] That's nice.

[1321] That's a ding, ding, ding, beep, beep, beep, beep.

[1322] love you love you follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts before you go tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey way.