The Struggle to Teach From Afar

[0] Good morning, everybody.

[1] I hope you had a great spring break.

[2] We are starting a new book today, and it is called Same Sun Here by Silas House and Nila Vaswani.

[3] I think you're really going to like it.

[4] It's written as a series of letters between two characters.

[5] And I'm going to go ahead and get started.

[6] Dear River, I cannot tell from your name if you're a boy or a girl.

[7] So I'll just write to you like you're a human being.

[8] You are the first American I know whose name means something.

[9] So I think maybe you're not from this country.

[10] My brother says you are.

[11] He says all people in Kentucky are Americans, not like in New York City, where most people are from everywhere in the world.

[12] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Bobaro.

[13] This is the Daily.

[14] My brother is 17 years old.

[15] He has a big smile and strong legs because he's a bike messenger.

[16] Today.

[17] All the girls love him, which makes him very conceited.

[18] As the school year comes to a close, a conversation with Rhonda McIntyre, a fifth grade teacher in Ohio.

[19] about the struggle to educate from afar.

[20] It's Friday, June 12th.

[21] Hey.

[22] Hi there.

[23] So I feel like I should be calling you Mrs. McIntyre.

[24] Actually, no. We have an informal philosophy at our school, and I have always been called Rhonda.

[25] The kids call me Rhonda.

[26] So when somebody calls me, Mrs. McIntyre, it makes me feel really old.

[27] So, no, Rhonda, perfect.

[28] Okay, okay, this is very progressive, not at all like when I was a student, but I will participate.

[29] Great.

[30] So I wonder if you can tell me about the school where you're teaching now.

[31] So the name of my school is Indianola Informal K through 8, and it's in Columbus, Ohio.

[32] We are in a neighborhood in Columbus called Clintonville, but we draw from every corner of the city.

[33] We're 100 % lottery.

[34] Meaning literally people get their names kind of pulled out of a hat or it's by merit.

[35] They do.

[36] I mean, now it's by computer and I teach fourth or fifth grade.

[37] So I wonder if you could describe your, classroom?

[38] My classroom is it's a pretty typical informal classroom.

[39] We have a little library nook area, you know, bookshelf surrounding it and pillows.

[40] We've got posters hanging around the room and student work displayed.

[41] And the hub of the classroom is our rug space.

[42] The rug space, the rug space, This is where we meet as a group for instruction.

[43] Kids bring their materials to the rug.

[44] We do not have desks.

[45] Wow.

[46] So you teach the kids for a lot of the day, basically on a rug seated around you.

[47] Yeah, the rug is the center.

[48] They come to the rug for the lesson, and then they often return to tables in table groups or in other spaces around the room.

[49] It's important to me because of the proximity.

[50] You know, I can look into their eyes.

[51] I mean, I can do classroom management easier when they're on the rug, but I can also connect with them in a more personable way than I can if I'm standing and they're all seated around the room.

[52] And I think that it helps their focus and their attention span as well.

[53] Do you have anything in your classroom, whether it's an object, or a sign, something that kids really love or are attached to?

[54] Well, something that really is, has resonated with this group, is something that I have called the calming caddy.

[55] And it's a literal catty with a handle that is large enough to hold many objects, little stuffed animals, smooth river stones, scented lotion, a battery operated candle.

[56] Wow.

[57] And the idea being you pick it up, you find a spot in the room, you try and deal with your powerful emotions that are, you know, creating you distraction or maybe driving you to anger.

[58] You know, kids, they come in from recess.

[59] There's been a friend issue.

[60] Mm -hmm.

[61] They're not over it.

[62] and they might come in and grab the calming caddy and try and get over it.

[63] You know, we share a lot in my classroom and kids would talk about when a relative died or, you know, something happening, you know, in their family.

[64] And it got to the point where there were kids that would zero in on someone that was, you could tell they were struggling.

[65] They were having a hard time with something, and they would walk the calming caddy over to someone.

[66] They knew how to use it.

[67] They did.

[68] And there are some people that just kind of took it upon themselves to, you know, to be a helper in that way.

[69] And does it work?

[70] You know what?

[71] It does work.

[72] I mean, it's not 100%, but it does work.

[73] Given everything you've just described and how kind of power.

[74] powerfully intimate, a lot of these interactions are, I have to imagine that it was very alarming to you and disruptive to suddenly have to go from regular teaching to the kind of remote teaching of this pandemic.

[75] Very much so, because this is a group and not just socially and emotionally, but, you know, Academically, they needed a lot of support.

[76] And I have seen the results of not being able to be there and, you know, check in with the kids I know I need to check in with.

[77] So make sure you're getting this done, that done.

[78] And the other thing, I mean, it's just tragic.

[79] I mean, it's tragic.

[80] What's not happened since this not being in a physical school building has.

[81] I wonder if you could take me through that whole process, starting with when you first realized that the school was going to be sending kids home.

[82] Well, initially, we learned on Thursday, March 12th, that school would be closing for three weeks and that our district's last day would be Friday.

[83] We had, you know, 24 hours notice.

[84] So we were making it up as we went along, basically.

[85] It was sort of each teacher, each school was making their plan for those first three weeks.

[86] So I said, everybody go to the bookshelves and take some books.

[87] And we tried to send them home with their math books.

[88] we were not operating with any kind of, this is the plan.

[89] It was sort of each teacher, each school was making their plan for those first three weeks.

[90] So there really was no formal structure for distance learning, for virtual classrooms?

[91] No, there wasn't.

[92] I think it blindsided everyone.

[93] What were the first couple of days and weeks of trying to teach remotely once you realized that this was not going to be an extended spring break?

[94] This is going to be a kind of new reality.

[95] What did that look like for you?

[96] So the main issue was we were trying to develop curriculum.

[97] We were trying to develop a routine.

[98] And it became clear that teaching, saying, hey, everybody, be in front of your computer at 11 o 'clock for this, that or the other thing, was not going to work.

[99] What do you mean?

[100] I mean, I was interacting with parents by email.

[101] I was interacting with parents by a phone app that I have.

[102] And, you know, I was getting some feedback.

[103] You know, that I'm working 14 hours a day now and I'm not able to oversee or so -and -so is sharing a device with their sibling, you know, I mean, just these sorts of things.

[104] So it was not going to be a situation where you could teach online.

[105] Once you've done your best to try to get as many students as possible on a device, and it sounds like not all of them could, how many students are actually there on the other end, as best you can tell, in these early days, participating?

[106] Very few.

[107] So in the early days, I would say maybe six to eight.

[108] Wow.

[109] Yeah.

[110] Out of 25?

[111] Out of 25, yeah.

[112] And then I started hearing from parents about how my child doesn't have any motivation.

[113] They have nothing to look forward to.

[114] I totally get this.

[115] That's how I started then talking on the phone with people weekly.

[116] And one of the students I checked in with was Axel.

[117] Hi, Axel.

[118] Axel is a really hard worker, but very reserved, shy, oftentimes won't ask a question if he has one.

[119] Hey, buddy, how you doing, man?

[120] It's the home stretch.

[121] His mother was working so hard to manage four boys, one in high school, two, identical twins in eighth grade and axel in fifth grade while she was furloughed as a massage therapist wow and she reached out to me and she said i am completely overwhelmed and so is axel he'll go through the first part of it and he'll be like okay okay i've got it i've got it and then he does the test and the test is harder than the material.

[122] It is.

[123] And not just like a little bit harder, like 50 times harder.

[124] Yeah.

[125] And whenever I click on the answer, it goes, nope.

[126] He hated the platform that the district was using called I Ready.

[127] It gives you this test.

[128] And then if you don't earn the passing score, it says, try again.

[129] well try again is pretty demoralizing and he had had it like he was done I mean the computer doesn't really know you right as a person as a student and you are just so good at giving your best effort axle and I do you think if you did half the lesson that you could give it better focus?

[130] No, but just I hate it.

[131] And so we talked about it, and I told him that, you know, I have been hearing this from other kids to, and it sounds like you're really, really struggling, so let's just forget I ready.

[132] So you just kind of erased it from his curriculum.

[133] Yes.

[134] I could tell that he needed something that was going to seem more applicable to real life.

[135] and we were studying economics.

[136] Have you taken a look at any of the economics lessons?

[137] No. Some of them are kind of fun.

[138] Let's see a bit more.

[139] One of them is about shopping for groceries.

[140] What I want to buy is probably going to be Skittles.

[141] So we struck a bargain.

[142] Okay, so Axel, you feel okay about looking at the economics?

[143] It's under social studies.

[144] And he did those things.

[145] Well, it's always good to hear your voice and it's good to see you on the Zoom meeting.

[146] Yeah.

[147] Thank you.

[148] It was great to talk to you.

[149] And I did that with several kids.

[150] Mm -hmm.

[151] And it just needed to happen.

[152] I mean, I learned to back off and I started assigning less.

[153] And I could just tell that they needed a lot of grace and that.

[154] that the academics had to be secondary.

[155] I mean, I always felt that.

[156] But when you have a parent basically telling you, look, this is crushing my child.

[157] Like, this is crushing their spirit.

[158] And I'm so overwhelmed.

[159] You know, it just really informed me. Mm -hmm.

[160] I mean, because I have not felt like I've been able to, to be there for everyone in the way that they need.

[161] And I always questioned, am I doing enough?

[162] I mean, am I doing enough?

[163] I mean, I think that's a teacher's existential dilemma always, but this has taken it to a whole new level.

[164] We'll be right back.

[165] Rhonda, have you been back to your classroom since the school closed because of the pandemic?

[166] Yes.

[167] And it was really startling.

[168] It's Tuesday, May 19th.

[169] I'm heading into my classroom because I opened my email like first thing in the morning, and I saw an email that.

[170] talked about getting our students' belongings out of our classrooms and out of their lockers and closing down our classrooms, which is a very lengthy process, by this Friday.

[171] So as I look around my room, the things that strike me are just the mundane, ordinary things.

[172] When I think about how we're going to do this as a class again, I have this lovely, brand -new rug.

[173] The rug even has multicolored circles, which can actually be a spot for kids to sit.

[174] Those circles are about an inch apart.

[175] That is going to need to change.

[176] I'm just getting a little emotional thinking about all the changes.

[177] I look at my tables.

[178] I have six of them.

[179] I have a class of 25 this year.

[180] If we're going to socially distance in classrooms, the only way I can see this working is one at each end.

[181] That's 12 kids We have a caddy on every table It has markers It has colored pencils It has glue sticks Because we have communal supplies One of the things I have to pack today Is the math area Pattern blocks Fraction kits How We can't share them anymore I have to find a way for everyone to have their own kit, but I don't have enough for everyone to have their own kit.

[182] This is the city school district.

[183] We have to share things.

[184] Oh my gosh, the calming caddy.

[185] This is a real loss, not being able to use things like this.

[186] I've been reading that as schools are opening in Europe, some of the safeguards that they're taking, and one is teaching with the windows open.

[187] year round.

[188] I have two windows in my room that open and they open about six inches.

[189] The rest of the windows don't open.

[190] I'm afraid.

[191] I'm just really afraid.

[192] I am not a spring chicken.

[193] I'm 57 years old and I want to be safe, just like everyone else.

[194] So I guess my biggest takeaway as I look around this room is how I'm going to do this.

[195] And there's so much ambiguity.

[196] We don't have a plan yet.

[197] Ohio does not have a plan yet for next year.

[198] All right.

[199] So as you're touring your classroom, you're realizing that it is designed for a pre -pandemic form of teaching.

[200] Yes, it is, most definitely.

[201] Basically, the whole structure of my classroom is set up for sharing, sharing items, sharing spaces, and it was really overwhelming.

[202] Let's pretend that you attempt to impose these kinds of restrictions, something like a six -foot distancing system, and perhaps you yourself, as a teacher, physically being further apart from the students than you've ever been before.

[203] What do you think the impact of all that would be on your students?

[204] I think it's going to have a numbing kind of effect.

[205] You know, just it's going to be a loss.

[206] And when you're heading into middle school, your peers, you know, they're central.

[207] And telling a child, you know, you need to stay this far away from.

[208] your peers, you know, having to do that on top of teaching, but then walking in the hallway, using the restroom, I'm not able to picture how this is going to work.

[209] I just, I'm having a lot of angst about it.

[210] It seems possible that some hybrid scenario, like you're describing.

[211] would be in place, you know, maybe it's not a full classroom, but it's a half a classroom, some distance learning, some in -classroom learning with social distancing.

[212] And I wonder if you think that teaching is ever going to really feel the same.

[213] No, it's not going to feel the same by a long shot.

[214] But if that takes a while, if that takes years, the foreseeable future, what does that mean?

[215] I don't know.

[216] I am in the latter part of my career.

[217] And, you know, my fulfillment is really tied to those.

[218] personal connections.

[219] Mm -hmm.

[220] So if I'm not getting that, then I have to reevaluate, I think.

[221] Right.

[222] What does it mean to teach?

[223] And is this teaching?

[224] And is that what you set out to do a few decades ago?

[225] Yeah, that will be a question that I will ask myself if this extends beyond.

[226] next year.

[227] And what do you think the answer will be?

[228] I think the answer will be that if I can handle it financially, that I will leave because it is a calling and without the day -to -day intimacy of connecting with children and colleagues and their families, it just, it leaves a lot of emptiness.

[229] For someone else, it might be a good fit.

[230] For me, I don't think it would be.

[231] It would be a shame to lose you as a teacher, though.

[232] I can say that, and I've only known you for an hour or so.

[233] Well, thank you very much.

[234] Well, Rhonda, thank you.

[235] I do hope that under the safest possible conditions that we can resume the kind of classroom environment that you care so deeply about.

[236] And that I grew up with, and that so many of us treasure.

[237] Yeah.

[238] Yeah, you and everyone else, I think.

[239] Yeah, thank you very much.

[240] We really appreciate your time.

[241] Thank you.

[242] Yes.

[243] My brother says there was a famous movie.

[244] movie star who died a long time ago with your name.

[245] Is this true?

[246] PPS.

[247] We live five blocks away from the East River in New York City.

[248] Do you live near a river too?

[249] Also, what kind of music do you like?

[250] That's where we're going to stop for today.

[251] All right, I'm going to sign off because it's almost time for the Monday Zoom meeting and I've got to go get ready.

[252] I'll see you guys soon.

[253] Bye.

[254] We'll be right back.

[255] Here's what else you need to know today.

[256] I need those officers to be convicted and charged because my dad, he did not have to die.

[257] The family of Derek Scott, a black man who died in the custody of Oklahoma City Police, are demanding that police there be investigated and charged in his 2019 death.

[258] After a video showed Scott telling officers, quote, I can't breathe as they pinned him.

[259] to the ground.

[260] The video, recorded by police body cameras, captures one of the officers responding to Scott's plea by saying, quote, I don't care.

[261] Scott died a short time later.

[262] A medical examiner found that his arrest contributed to his death.

[263] And...

[264] As senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched.

[265] And I am not immune.

[266] On Thursday, the country's top military official, General Mark Millie, apologized for participating in a photo op in which President Trump walked across Lafayette Square in Washington in order to hold up a Bible in front of a church.

[267] As many of you saw the result of the photograph of me at Lafayette Square last week, that sparked a national debate about the role of the military and civil society.

[268] To prepare for that walk, federal authorities deployed tear gas and rubber bullets on mostly peaceful protesters, prompting former military officials to criticize Millie for taking part.

[269] I should not have been there.

[270] My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.

[271] As a commissioned, uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from.

[272] Finally, a Times review of arrest records has found that none of the protesters charged with serious federal crimes over the past few weeks have been linked to the anti -fascist group Antifa, as President Trump and his Attorney General, Bill Barr, have repeatedly claimed.

[273] So far, the records reveal no effort by Antifa to coordinate a campaign of violence.

[274] The Daily is made by Theo Balcom, Andy Mills, Lisa Tobin, Rachel Quester, Lindsay Garrison, Annie Brown, Claire Tennisgetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Larissa Anderson, Wendy Dorr, Chris Wood, Jessica Chung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Lee Young, Jonathan Wolfe, Lisa Chow, Eric Kruppke, Mark George, Luke Van, Luke Van, Enderplug, Adiza Egan, Kelly Prime, Julia Longoria, Sindhu Yonnasumbandun, M .J. Davis -Linn, Austin Mitchell, Sayer Kavado, Nina Pawtuck, Dan Powell, Dave Shaw, Sydney Harper, Daniel Gimet, Hans Butto, Robert Jimison, Mike Benoit, Bianca Gaver, and Asta Chaturvedi.

[275] Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

[276] Special thanks to Sam Dolmick, Michaela Bouchard, Lauren Jackson, Julia Simon, Mahima Choblani, Nora Keller, and Elizabeth Harris.

[277] That's it for the daily.

[278] I'm Michael Babarro.

[279] See you on Monday.