Ellen DeGeneres

[0] Okay, hello.

[1] My name is Ellen DeGeneres, and I feel honored about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[2] Fingerbell, brand of shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[3] I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[4] Hey there.

[5] Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend.

[6] Having a good time on this podcast.

[7] Really good time.

[8] Today's a little different because we actually have food.

[9] the studio.

[10] And my trusty assistant Sonam of Sessian is frustrated because there's a sandwich in front of her, but she feels she can't take a bite of it because that would be munching sounds at this part.

[11] What kind of sandwich?

[12] What do you got there?

[13] I have a turkey sandwich and every time I bite on it and I chew, you look at me with such disdain and so much anger.

[14] Not disdain, disappointment and anger.

[15] I'm hungry and you put a sandwich in front of me and I can't eat it because we're recording and that's not cool.

[16] Well, I think you could.

[17] I mean, I'm going to turn now to the expert in all these matters.

[18] Mr. Matt, Gourley, Matt, good to see you.

[19] Good to see you.

[20] You've been doing podcasts for a long time.

[21] Is it okay if Sona bites into her sandwich?

[22] Is that off -putting?

[23] I think some listeners have a problem with it, but I also say, hey, you know, you got to live.

[24] It's worth noting that there are literally 10 bags of potato chips in front of us as well.

[25] A ton of bags of potato chips.

[26] I don't know who brought these in.

[27] I think someone said to somebody, an intern, you know, get us some potato chips.

[28] They got scared and thought, I need to go and get every.

[29] bag of potato chip available in the Los Angeles area.

[30] Came in on a wheelbarrow.

[31] Yeah.

[32] You got loud food, too.

[33] Chips are loud.

[34] Well, chips are loud, but your sandwich, what's the sandwich made of?

[35] It's turkey, it's cheese, it's sprouts, it's avocado, it's lettuce, it's onions, it's really good.

[36] I hate sprouts.

[37] I hate it.

[38] They know it's coming.

[39] They know it's coming.

[40] You can turn it down.

[41] Oh my God.

[42] Listen to that.

[43] Wow.

[44] Fresh.

[45] Listen, doesn't that sound like soldiers marching far off in the distance?

[46] Yeah, they're coming.

[47] They're like eight miles away.

[48] they're coming.

[49] That's the sound of the podcast trolls writing comments about eating on podcasts coming.

[50] They hate that, right?

[51] Yeah.

[52] Now you're chewing so quietly.

[53] You're just, it looks like your method, Sona, is to just hold the sandwich in your mouth and let it dissolve over a two -hour period.

[54] Like you're a reptile.

[55] Is that what you're doing?

[56] I eat.

[57] I like to chew it all completely.

[58] I know you like to just shovel food in your mouth.

[59] Why don't you tell, what are you doing, Gory?

[60] Unwrapping a pickle?

[61] That's exactly what I'm doing.

[62] All right.

[63] We'll just Oh, God.

[64] Sona, why don't you tell people, because you've witnessed it over a 10 -year period, how do I eat?

[65] It is horrifying.

[66] It is absolutely horrifying.

[67] I will, okay, so I'll drop, I'll put an entire meal in front of you, and then you'll be like, oh, can you grab me a Diet Coke or Coke Zero?

[68] And I'll go get it, and I'll come back, and it's gone.

[69] And all the crumbs are on your face.

[70] He has a crumb on his face.

[71] Okay, maybe I do.

[72] You eat like someone who grew up with too many.

[73] siblings.

[74] Uh -huh.

[75] Gee, I wonder why that is.

[76] I think your oldest brother, Neil, probably ate all of your food.

[77] There were six of us.

[78] Yeah.

[79] And we would sit around one table, and my mother would lower a ham on a cable into the middle of the room, and we would all jump at it.

[80] And there'd be a lot of loud noises, and then she would lift the cable, and there would just be half a bone, because Neil would eat half the bone.

[81] And so, yes, I eat very quickly.

[82] Have you witnessed me eat, Gourley?

[83] Yeah, I can see that.

[84] Is it horrifying?

[85] Yeah.

[86] I'm self -conscious now.

[87] because I feel like people...

[88] No, you're not.

[89] You're right.

[90] But look at your sandwich.

[91] There is one giant bite taken out of the center.

[92] Well, a lot of people don't know this, but I can detach my lower jaw.

[93] It's clear.

[94] The lower jaw comes off and I can actually put it in my pocket.

[95] And then I just take a massive chomp off the top.

[96] There's a half of a sandwich and the bite radius is like a softball.

[97] And it's one bite.

[98] Mm -hmm.

[99] Right.

[100] Well, listen.

[101] It's fascinating.

[102] It's very hard to change who you are at your core.

[103] and my core personality was formed probably between the ages of, well, the time I was born, and three, right?

[104] Okay.

[105] So I'm pretty much a done deal by the time I'm three years old.

[106] How can I change now?

[107] It's been a really long time since you lived at home, so you could just chew more and chew smaller bites and then just take your time with the food.

[108] That's all.

[109] Just take your time with it.

[110] Enjoy it.

[111] It's also you don't want to enjoy it.

[112] You're just like sustenance.

[113] You don't think I enjoy things?

[114] I don't think you enjoy anything.

[115] No. I think you may be incapable of that at my short time here.

[116] Is that true?

[117] You really believe that?

[118] Yeah.

[119] This is like a horrifying intervention.

[120] I do enjoy talking to the people on the podcast.

[121] I really do.

[122] So that and me?

[123] Oh, no, no, no. Oh, God, no, no, no. The special guests.

[124] Oh, that's embarrassing.

[125] Sorry, I thought maybe there was going to be a nice moment.

[126] Oh, God, no. Well, that's awkward.

[127] No, I do.

[128] I really do think I am capable of joy.

[129] The fact that I'm defending this is, making me incredibly self -comacious.

[130] Sorry.

[131] I do think there's an ability I love to laugh.

[132] Hello?

[133] I love it when other people are laughing at what I said.

[134] There we go.

[135] Is that the same thing?

[136] No. Okay.

[137] Well, this was horrible.

[138] This was terrible.

[139] I learned that I'm a monster that devours his food and stuffs it in as quickly as he can to just get through life because I'm incapable of joy.

[140] Yeah, it's pretty much accurate.

[141] That's accurate.

[142] That's accurate.

[143] Good.

[144] All right.

[145] Well, what better time to introduce our first guest.

[146] I really am excited about her guest today.

[147] My guest today is a hilarious comedian, television host, writer, and producer.

[148] She has won 32 Emmys.

[149] I believe that's too many.

[150] It's a lot.

[151] Yeah.

[152] I think she needs to, I mean, really, at this point, 32, where do you even store those?

[153] No, I know.

[154] It's insane.

[155] That's crazy.

[156] Yeah, that's just, you've got to get another basement.

[157] She's won 32 Emmys and was awarded the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor.

[158] She was also honored with the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Obama in 2016.

[159] Very excited to sit down with her today.

[160] Ladies and gentlemen, I've never said that before.

[161] I think it just adds a little class to the podcast.

[162] But I'm really excited.

[163] Ellen DeGeneres is here.

[164] Hey, Alan.

[165] This is a true story.

[166] My wife and I and our two kids, we get this house on a beach.

[167] And then I would say about nine months later, we heard, Ellen's here.

[168] Ellen and Portiav bought a house down the beach, and everyone was excited.

[169] My immediate reaction was, well, what am I fucking chopped liver, you know?

[170] And apparently I was.

[171] No one excited about me. Everyone excited about you.

[172] Then I don't get to go to the beach very often.

[173] I work a lot.

[174] And when I go to the beach, I don't go to the beach because I am a 56 -year -old, very white woman.

[175] I just can't go outside.

[176] I can't go outside.

[177] Didn't expect the last part.

[178] I've been through a lot, Ellen.

[179] Oh, wow.

[180] And that's why I'm really happy to talk to you.

[181] Congratulations.

[182] You look the same.

[183] I've always looked this way.

[184] Yeah, I wouldn't think that you'd spend much.

[185] I was surprised that you had a beach house because you don't look like you enjoy the sun.

[186] I always like you.

[187] I grew up watching the great TV comedians.

[188] And I always, I love the original Lucy show.

[189] I love Lucy.

[190] And I always thought to look like Desi Arnaz, I wanted the idea of having, like, dark, jet black hair and to be friends with the superintendent of the building.

[191] And I don't know why I threw that in.

[192] That's not cool at all.

[193] But anyway, I just love the idea of having dark hair like Hogan on Hogan's heroes.

[194] That's what I wanted to look like.

[195] Oh.

[196] I see.

[197] And you sound like my therapist.

[198] Craig's writing it down.

[199] I think that's rude, but Craig's writing a lot of this down.

[200] But enough about me. Let's talk about you.

[201] I saw you for the first time.

[202] It was 1987.

[203] I remember this really well.

[204] I had just pretty much come out to Hollywood as a young punk, gotten a job on a terrible TV show as a writer where they didn't have a host and they were looking for a host.

[205] And it was this show on Fox that ended up being called The Wilton North Report.

[206] And I was sent out, along with a couple of other writers and a producer to, quote, look at talent.

[207] I was 22 or 23.

[208] I had no business judging anybody on anything.

[209] But I'm one of the writers on this show.

[210] I went out there.

[211] We went to a club and I saw you perform and you were wearing, tell me if this rings a bell with you at all, a gold jacket.

[212] Did you ever perform in like a gold jacket?

[213] Because it's a very strong memory of mine.

[214] So kind of mustard more than gold?

[215] Mustard, yes.

[216] It wouldn't be like gold shiny.

[217] It wasn't shiny gold.

[218] Not Elvis going back to it.

[219] No, no, no. It was like mustard.

[220] Yeah, I probably did.

[221] Okay.

[222] Mustard was a color of mine back then.

[223] Was it?

[224] It's coming back, by the way, right now.

[225] First of all, I'll say this.

[226] You looked fantastic.

[227] Thank you.

[228] And you were absolutely hilarious.

[229] And I remember thinking, well, that's who should host the show.

[230] And Greg Daniels was my writing partner at the time who does the office and a million other successful shows.

[231] He has proven great taste.

[232] He was like, oh, my God, she's fantastic.

[233] I remember the producer saying, we've got to keep looking.

[234] And then they found, I think, two DJs in San Diego.

[235] who they found preferential to out into generous.

[236] Anyway.

[237] My life story in many, many things.

[238] I couldn't get a job.

[239] I couldn't, like I moved here and I couldn't get anything because no one knew what to do with me. Yeah.

[240] Because I just didn't really fit the, you know, it wasn't the leading lady and I wasn't even really the girl next door.

[241] I wasn't anything.

[242] I just kind of, and my comedy was more, it wasn't a gender -based.

[243] It wasn't like, you know, am I right, you know, and it was.

[244] It was kind of a different take on things, so people really didn't know what to do with me for a long time.

[245] Well, I will attest as someone who was there.

[246] I mean, obviously, this would have been about a year after your famous Tonight Show appearance, so you had nothing to prove to anybody.

[247] You were absolutely hilarious, and I've always been a huge fan of your rhythm.

[248] You're just such a fantastic deliverer of comedy, and it's always very special.

[249] special to you.

[250] I'm so I think it's surprising to people now that it didn't happen for you right away.

[251] Well, I mean, obviously, you know, times change.

[252] It's a, it's a whole different time for lots of things now.

[253] But I also think it's, it's character building.

[254] I mean, I'm sure you feel the same way.

[255] It's like you, you know, I think the more adversity you have, the more that you have to prove.

[256] And I think we need that.

[257] I think we need to kind of struggle and feel, you know, I've said this before with everything that's happened to me. It taught me compassion.

[258] It taught me, you know, a lot of things that I wouldn't have, you know, been, you know, had the opportunity to learn those lessons had it not taken so long.

[259] I feel bad for people who, these immediate, you know, these overnight, these shows that, you know, you're singing on a show and suddenly you're famous or, you know, YouTube.

[260] And I don't, I don't think that's the way to get famous.

[261] Well, I think back then there were very few ways to do it.

[262] It was almost impossible to get out there.

[263] I mean, it's just a lot of young people listening who don't understand that today there's this YouTube, Facebook.

[264] You can blow up on TikTok now.

[265] And I think that's unfortunate because you really learned your craft and you were really, really good at it for a long time and had to overcome a lot to become who you are today.

[266] And in those moments, it feels terrible.

[267] That's the thing is people romanticize it.

[268] You probably always knew I'll get through this.

[269] You don't know.

[270] Back then you probably thought, I don't know, where is this going to go?

[271] I thought, if I'm lucky, I mean, when I would start, you know, when I got out of clubs and I started doing a theater that was a big deal, you know, and I started making when I was a headliner, you know, coming from a middle, like all of it is every step that, you know, takes you to another level is enough.

[272] You know, all of it was enough.

[273] And then to get, you know, a show and to have a show on ABC for you know, five years, that was enough.

[274] Like, everything was enough.

[275] And then everyone said, well, that's enough.

[276] And then they were done with me. And then that was good.

[277] Is that, did it really feel to you like they were done with you?

[278] Oh, yeah.

[279] Wow.

[280] Yeah.

[281] I remember that was from my vantage point, obviously, but at the time, I remembered it just was inconceivable to me. Do you know what I mean?

[282] If people are talented, I just think that they're going to, and with a generous is going to be doing something else.

[283] It's just going to happen.

[284] And, I mean, you did the Emmys and you were brilliant.

[285] Yeah, but that took some time.

[286] How many years between the cancellation and the Emmys?

[287] I was a couple of years, I think, which seems like an eternity, when you're used to working every single day.

[288] Like someone, you know, I think Mike Ovitz told me, you know, something that, like, he said, you're like a Ferrari and neutral.

[289] Like, when you work as much as you work and you're not doing anything, you feel like, you know, this is just not comfortable for me. I didn't know how to sit still.

[290] had been working since I was, you know, 21 at that craft.

[291] And so I was, you know, to not work for that long.

[292] And I don't even know how I got the Emmys.

[293] I mean, I have such a bad memory of the sequence of events, but it was amazing that I got the Emmys.

[294] And I think because it was such a horrible time, because the war had just started and we had to cancel once.

[295] And then when I came back again and it was that whole business casual thing, which just I capitalized on and wore the swan suit.

[296] Yeah, yeah.

[297] The Bjork.

[298] I remember that.

[299] She really had a good sense of humor about that.

[300] She really didn't understand that.

[301] The Icelandic, they're not known for their sense of humor.

[302] Never perform there.

[303] I'm banned and I've not even mentioned them.

[304] And then the Emmys was just the Emmys.

[305] I was just hosting it.

[306] It didn't lead to anything.

[307] But it kind of reminded people, that's all I wanted to do.

[308] Then I went and, you know, went back and did stand up.

[309] But, you know, that's what I learned, too, is like, even stuff that goes on now in my life when, you know, people are all bothered by something and I'm in the news.

[310] It's like it just, it's not everybody's world, even if it seems like it for me, even if a whole bunch of people are supposedly talking about me, it's like I kind of let go of me worrying about anything that's going.

[311] on because it really is.

[312] There's so many other people that are worried.

[313] There are people worried that lost everything just now in fires, you know?

[314] There's, you know, much less look at the news and see what's going on.

[315] Like, I just have, I've just learned, you know, over time to, you know, at that time, it was like all about me and woe was me and it was horrible and what did I do wrong?

[316] I just was honest and, but now I'm not, I just don't really take all that in anymore.

[317] But at the time, it was everything, was my whole world, you know, and I thought the whole world hated me. Really?

[318] That's awful.

[319] Yeah, it felt bad.

[320] I'm sorry.

[321] I mean, I've had moments of, you know, when I started out in late night and replaced David Letterman and was, it was train wreck for a while, I remember going and talking to my therapist once and saying, everybody hates me and thinks I'm no good at this job and then I'm not qualified.

[322] And they just wish that I would go away.

[323] And the therapist said, that's just a feeling.

[324] And I said, no, it's the cover of USA Today.

[325] I was able to pull it out and show it to them.

[326] And I was like, okay, well, all right, yes, I see.

[327] It's a pie chart.

[328] You are hated.

[329] And what's funny is those things, I don't know why, they kind of resonate more than the successes.

[330] But it bugs me, but you've had an absurd amount of success, really, and I mean that in the nicest way.

[331] But I think really good comedians, they feel.

[332] that less than they feel the tough stuff.

[333] You'll always find, are you the one that you find the face in the crowd that's not laughing?

[334] Absolutely.

[335] I apologize, by the way.

[336] I was not laughing for a reason.

[337] I come to all your shows and I try and stare you down.

[338] No, of course.

[339] You know, there's like an old joke that some girl comes up to this comedian after a show and says, you know, oh my God, you know, I saw your show.

[340] You're so sexy.

[341] Now I want to go home with you.

[342] And, you know, and he said, did you see the first or the second show?

[343] It gets much dirtier than that, what she wants to do to him, but I'm going to save that.

[344] But, yeah, it's how we are.

[345] It's like we just, and we always have that measure of noise where what it's supposed to sound like here after this joke.

[346] And if it doesn't get to that decimal, then you're like, what happened?

[347] You know, what happened to the whole audience?

[348] They decided that it's not as funny tonight as it was last night.

[349] and that's why it was really scary for me to go back again after 15 years because I just thought, you know, I just don't, I don't know if the people...

[350] You mean to do the stand -up?

[351] Yeah, because I thought people would not be the same.

[352] I think people have changed.

[353] Well, let's talk about it.

[354] Your stand -up special, relatable, you hadn't done a special in 15 years.

[355] Hadn't done stand -up and hadn't been on a stage in 15 years.

[356] So I have a couple of questions.

[357] One is, I really love the special.

[358] You had a great set.

[359] I was curious, first of all, how does it?

[360] Ellen DeGeneres work up a set?

[361] Because so much about working up a set is going places, trying stuff out, failing.

[362] It's different if it's you.

[363] Do you know what I mean?

[364] Yeah.

[365] Because you're you.

[366] Do you know what it's like to be Ellen DeGeneres?

[367] No. Okay.

[368] Let me explain.

[369] What I did, and I never really, I write at home.

[370] I don't ever get up on stage and just, you know, so I wrote, I had the idea.

[371] I knew because I really thought, what am I going to talk about?

[372] My life really has changed.

[373] So I decided to go to the absurdity of my life has changed so much that, you know, but to the butler and everything, the escalator in the house.

[374] So I kind of went over the top and I knew I had that chunk, but I didn't know how long it was.

[375] And I didn't want to go to a comedy club because I didn't want people to just laugh because it's me or I wanted to go someplace where people would judge me. and I wanted to go a place where they don't even really probably watch me. So I went to Largo because Largo is kind of like...

[376] It's a great space.

[377] Yeah, it's a hip...

[378] Largo is in La Siena in Los Angeles and just this wonderful...

[379] I'm actually going there tonight.

[380] It's a great place, a great room, and there's a generous...

[381] There's sort of a generosity in the room, too, like they're up for...

[382] And they're not up to just see celebrities.

[383] They want to see people do good work.

[384] Right.

[385] See, I didn't know that ahead of time.

[386] I thought they were like really like...

[387] like almost anti -television, you know, just, I thought they were just going to be a room full of, like, Bernie Sanders fans of like, you know, we hate you, you're successful.

[388] Like, that's what I was looking for.

[389] I thought if I can get these people to like me, then I'm good.

[390] Because I knew I'd have fans that, you know, watch the show and want free shit.

[391] So I just wanted to go someplace, you know.

[392] You give away a lot of VCRs in your Netflix.

[393] which is weird because no one uses a VCR anymore.

[394] We give away TCL broke through 65 -inch TVs.

[395] You haven't watched for a while.

[396] So anyway, so I went to Largo and I was scared to death.

[397] It was TIG and Taro's show and I thought she'd have a good crowd and I surprised the audience and I didn't announce that I was going to be there.

[398] And it was surprisingly welcoming.

[399] People were really happy to see me, which really surprised me. And then they laughed.

[400] It got consistent, like, it all worked, and it was 15 minutes.

[401] And I was like, oh, my God, that's great.

[402] I just need 45 more minutes.

[403] So then I just, I didn't know where to go after that because my whole thing was just over the top, rich.

[404] And then I just started writing other stuff, and I kept going back to Largo and I would announce, like, sometimes I'd surprise an audience, and then I wanted my own night once I had material.

[405] And I'd go up with a piece of paper, and I'd announce, like, the night before.

[406] and because I really didn't want my Ellen show fans.

[407] I wanted different people that, that, and I just built it up until I had, and it really, Ted Sarandas, who is, you know, runs Netflix has said, I never have seen anyone work up a set that fast and do so little shows to do a special.

[408] It literally was, I did it in two months maybe.

[409] Oh, wow.

[410] And then I only did nine shows before I shot it.

[411] Really?

[412] Yeah.

[413] One of the things when I watched the special that I was reminded, of that I'm always reminded of is you are a very gifted physical comic.

[414] Obviously, you're a great verbal comedian, but when I watch you, you're very funny with your body.

[415] You're very funny, and you're very funny in the way I can see the new heart influence.

[416] I can see that you're, so many people are not willing to take the time to just let the expression on your face do the work.

[417] and it was really fun watching you in that special do all that physical schick that I was I thought I think she's having a really fun time doing this.

[418] Yeah, trying on shoes.

[419] The trying on shoes thing was really funny and I could tell that you were stretching it out, you were playing with it, and they kept laughing so I can see what I think is you saying, I'm going to do this a little more.

[420] And I'm going to do this a little more.

[421] I'm going to try these moves.

[422] and it was really fun.

[423] Like, there's nothing more fun than watching someone have a good time enjoy themselves and then everyone else is happy.

[424] Yeah, which is what doesn't happen when you tour too long and too much with it.

[425] That's why I only booked, you know, I did three shows in San Diego, three in San Francisco, and then three in Seattle, where I shot.

[426] I just didn't want to get bored with the material.

[427] I wanted to still have fun.

[428] And I thought, I'm risking that I won't be ready and completely polished and know the order, but I'd rather do that than be bored with the material because I get bored really fast.

[429] But yeah, I did.

[430] I had so much fun in it.

[431] And had I done another show or two, that shoe, the trying on shoe routine would probably be about 20 minutes long because I added more moves every night and it was getting to be so ridiculous.

[432] Yeah, but that's the...

[433] It's the fun of it.

[434] Yeah, I think there's the good news.

[435] The good news is you've checked every box somebody can check and show business from my perspective.

[436] So that's the good news.

[437] And you've been doing this for a long time and doing it at a high level.

[438] And then you get the inevitable questions of, you know, so how long do you want to keep doing it?

[439] And in other professions, people don't just keep coming up to you and saying, so how long you do this microbiology thing?

[440] You know what I mean?

[441] So how much longer, the dental reconstruction is going really well?

[442] Are you going to get out soon?

[443] And you're like, why are we getting?

[444] that question.

[445] I mean, for me, I think there's a passive aggressive, you should go with you.

[446] It's clearly a fear that you will stop.

[447] So.

[448] No. But I, you know, yeah, because I think people know that there's a finite, you know, amount of time for us to, it's just a miracle that our shows have gone as long as they've gone because talk shows don't last.

[449] I was fortunate to have a conversation with David Letterman and he said the same thing.

[450] He said that he got out because he couldn't remember who his guests were.

[451] He was gone for a little bit, and then he came back and has a show where there's one guest where he can remember.

[452] My solution is to have the same guest every night.

[453] Smart.

[454] Actor Richard Kind.

[455] You try getting Richard Kind.

[456] Well, I can't.

[457] It seems he booked him.

[458] Yes.

[459] Good luck to you, Ellen.

[460] Good luck to you.

[461] Lots of stories from Spin City.

[462] No, it's true.

[463] It's like, and there's some days when you're...

[464] there's some days when you're, you know, you're tired or you're like, and you're not as quick or, you know, so I lay in bed at night and think, you know, God, if I would have done this or it.

[465] But, you know, the one thing I learned when I got into this is that you don't really have to always kill and always have the hilarious thing because you can't interrupt a guest.

[466] You can't, even though you're thinking something and that's perfect to say there.

[467] But if, you know, if they're in the middle of a story, you can't do that.

[468] So you just have to let things go.

[469] And.

[470] And you don't have to always be hilarious all the time because if it's entertaining enough, people come back and they know they're going to find a spot that they're going to get that Conan thing that they're there to see.

[471] That leads me to my question, which is a question I get all the time, is people ask me, or they'll ask my wife, is he the guy on the show?

[472] And she says, well, yeah, but also it's a show, which I think is a fair answer, meaning something would be wrong with me clinically if I was that person on the show.

[473] Right.

[474] I always think it's a TV sort of flattens you and presents a two -dimensional version of you.

[475] And you have to make these, as you know, these like six -minute turns where someone's signaling you, we got to go to commercial.

[476] And so you figure out a way to dovetail it, get a laugh, and say, we'll take a break more with Nicole Kidman after this, or in my case, more with Richard Kind.

[477] Right.

[478] So you just, you get used to that.

[479] And I think, yeah, it's a version of me, but it would be inhuman to expect me to be that person.

[480] I mean, you talk and you're special about people expecting you to always be that Ellen.

[481] Be kind.

[482] Yeah, be kind.

[483] and I think, well, you're human.

[484] You're a very nice person.

[485] You're a very kind person, but you're human.

[486] Yeah.

[487] So, and you talk about it really well in the special.

[488] Like, I feel sometimes trapped into whenever someone's seeing me, this is their image of me. And so I have to make this really memorable.

[489] Like, hey, kid, come here.

[490] I'll sign your crutches.

[491] You know.

[492] Oh, wow.

[493] Yeah.

[494] I actually like to lure maimed children.

[495] And they don't know me, and they get scared.

[496] And I say, no, come here.

[497] At the crutches, I want them.

[498] I'm going to sign you.

[499] them.

[500] And they don't know why I'm talking that way.

[501] I upset a lot of people.

[502] But you feel that pressure somewhat when people are looking at you and you're walking around.

[503] Or have you grown out of that?

[504] I don't, I actually don't think about it.

[505] I forget sometimes that, oh, that just, you know, I need to like, remember that was a moment for somebody.

[506] Like, I don't, I don't think about it.

[507] And then I realize, I mean, sometimes I'm aware of it, but for the most part, unless they They kind of are like, I hear when they pass me on the street or something, like, you know, kind of excitement or something is like, oh, you know, I just, but I don't really, but they ask Portia the same thing if I'm the same thing, you know, same at home.

[508] And, you know, no, I'm not the same, you know.

[509] She's actually funnier than me. She's really funny.

[510] I mean, I mean, just, I'm guessing just from Arrested Development.

[511] She's hilarious.

[512] She's absolutely hilarious.

[513] Yeah.

[514] That's not even, I mean, she did another show that she was, that showed like how funny she was that didn't, it called better off Ted that it didn't last but her character on that was but she's yeah she's um she's so hilarious but um and that's you know that's what it's nice to have somebody at home that gets my sense of humor and that you know makes me laugh as well because it would be horrible that i'm just the person that makes everybody laugh i assume your wife is funny as well she is really funny and also not having any of my foolishness and i'm i'm you know i have two children uh a 16 year old daughter and a 14 -year -old son, and they're just not having it.

[515] And so if I really have some good material, they'll give it up.

[516] But when it's not, when I'm trying stuff out or I'm just being, and it's not really there, they're like, hey, would you knock it off?

[517] You know, we're trying to do stuff here.

[518] We're adults, and you should act like one.

[519] And it's really pretty, well, it's depressing, frankly.

[520] I was about to say it was humanizing.

[521] Yeah, humbling, but no. Depress them.

[522] No, I want non -stop.

[523] affirmation and that was a loud gulp by the way.

[524] I'm sorry.

[525] Okay, this is a lot of...

[526] It's like a commercial for water.

[527] I bet people are thirsty right now, listening to this.

[528] And you know what?

[529] They should buy commercial time.

[530] If they're listening and they're thirsty, they should buy whatever it is you're drinking.

[531] Right.

[532] What vodka is that?

[533] This is...

[534] Just a...

[535] Just a huge gulp of it.

[536] This is just for Mooth.

[537] I really love your commitment to silliness.

[538] I think we have similar inspirations.

[539] And that is a universal connector to me. And I think that's one of the things that has been key for you is that you are in a lot of your work saying, we're all in this foolishness together and I'm silly and you can laugh at what I'm doing right now.

[540] You can laugh at my silliness.

[541] You can laugh at my shaggy dog story or my bit that you're doing your special about dancing when you hit the dance floor.

[542] We live in a time right now where so many people are angry and there's a lot of vitriol out there.

[543] And I think it's kind of nice when comedians can offer it up and say, I'm silly.

[544] You can come laugh at me. You can come enjoy my silliness.

[545] It's a non -judgmental zone.

[546] First of all, I wish that more people were non -judgmental because I think everybody is, we're getting to be so, so separate in every single category.

[547] Everybody is, you know, going back to like when I came out, like, you know, and it's worse today.

[548] I mean, Pete Buttigieg is being judged by, you know, a lot of the gay community for not being gay enough.

[549] And I was, you know, the same thing when I came out, like I was too gay or I wasn't gay enough.

[550] And, you know, within whatever group of people you supposedly are a part of or represent, you know, there are people that you're not representing properly.

[551] It's like no one's trying to represent anybody.

[552] You know, I'm just trying to be who I am and this happens to be.

[553] I happen to be gay, but I am not a leader in any, I'm not political.

[554] I'm not.

[555] And I just feel like, you know, everybody is.

[556] so, you're supposed to be perfect for them, like, you know, whatever this group of people is, because I was vegan for a while and I talked about being vegan, and that was a mistake because you should never really, because then there was a vegan community that was thrilled that I was there representative because I was somebody that was very vocal and I'm, you know, I've got a platform and I'm talking about being vegan, but now I'm not completely vegan.

[557] And even when I was vegan, I wasn't vegan enough, like, because I wore shoes that had leather on them or drove a car that had leather in it or, and so there's all these groups of people that that you just can't be good enough for.

[558] And I just feel like that's, you know, that's why we need to everybody to just calm down.

[559] Like, you know, you just and be silly and play.

[560] And, you know, first of all, it keeps you young.

[561] I think being angry and being really serious ages people.

[562] And I just, you know, that's one of the things that, you know, I'm 60.

[563] years old and I feel like I'm, you know, so immature in so many ways.

[564] And I'm happy with that.

[565] I'm thrilled to be immature.

[566] And I just, I don't want to grow up and I don't want to, you know, I like getting wiser.

[567] I like learning lessons, but I don't want to be serious and I don't want to take everything so seriously.

[568] And I don't.

[569] And so when people get so upset about so many things and especially with, you know, politics right now and the way the world is, it's like I'm an extremely sensitive person.

[570] Like everything affects me to the point if I really let it in, which is one of the reasons I became vegan.

[571] I looked at these documentaries and these footage of inside factory farming and learned about like research factories and just everything.

[572] And it just, I couldn't sleep at night thinking about all the animals that were being tortured, you know?

[573] And sometimes when you get too deep into something, it just affects you in a way that you just get angry at everybody who's not doing exactly what you're doing.

[574] And I just finally got to a point, I can't live like this.

[575] I can't, you know, the world is everybody, everybody's different and everybody's doing the best that they can.

[576] And I'm now doing the best that I can.

[577] I've figured out a way that I want to live and the way I want to be.

[578] And I don't judge anybody for what they do anymore.

[579] And I hated judging people.

[580] I hated being this vegan person that just, you know, because I, I was educated about something and you're not educated.

[581] You don't know what you're doing.

[582] And it's like, no, people just learn on their own time.

[583] And so I know that we came from, you know, you were just talking about being silly, but it's like part of why I feel like it's really important to just not take everything so seriously and look at the way somebody else is living and point fingers.

[584] I almost feel like we humans have been around.

[585] We've been evolving, 250 ,000 years, slowly making our way.

[586] And then overnight the Internet showed up.

[587] And the Internet makes it possible for everybody to be very childish and simplistic about everything and say, this is what I believe in, and it's black and white.

[588] And anyone who doesn't fit this, on this specific issue, they have a platform to yell at you and be angry.

[589] I almost feel like we can't handle the internet.

[590] We probably need like a hundred thousand years in order to assimilate, as you said, everyone's triggered by everything.

[591] Everybody's flipping out about every single issue.

[592] And so you're not allowed to dabble, try things, make a mistake, if it even is a mistake.

[593] It's not.

[594] You're trying things.

[595] You're evolving.

[596] I've gone through 50 different types of dietary experiment you know, there was a year I ate only ham.

[597] That seems healthy.

[598] Yeah, I fired that doctor.

[599] It's a little known diet.

[600] It didn't get a lot of traction.

[601] No?

[602] But no, no, the all ham.

[603] And I kept a ham on a rope in the shower, and I just not as well I was showering.

[604] But the point is, I've tried a million things, and my wife would laugh at me every time.

[605] She would say, oh, you're just drinking.

[606] Now you're just having protein and drinking a lot of water.

[607] If you notice that you've been an asshole for six months, because your body's in ketosis.

[608] And I'm like, you know, and then I'll try something else.

[609] And then there was the all -a -clair diet.

[610] I mean, everything.

[611] I tried every single thing.

[612] And I realized that too many silly theories were being made available to me on the internet.

[613] And I was getting very judgmental about everyone else's food choices.

[614] And then I just was like, enough.

[615] Just stop it.

[616] Turn the volume way down on all of this.

[617] It's madness.

[618] And I know you've picked, you've done a really good job of saying, okay, I care about gorillas.

[619] And I want to really, that's important to me. And I want to try and help them and save them.

[620] And I'm going to be really specific about that.

[621] I chose squirrels, which...

[622] I like squirrels.

[623] I'm happy about that.

[624] They're adorable.

[625] You know what?

[626] Very hard to raise money.

[627] People, it's like, there's a lot of them.

[628] Really?

[629] They won't give you the money.

[630] They won't give you the money.

[631] They're like, it almost seems like there's too many, and I'm like, we need more.

[632] But I think it's really smart that you pick, you pick, pick your thing, any human being can only do so much.

[633] You pick your thing that you can do.

[634] I'm super sensitive about, not about stuff like that.

[635] I have completely given up on, you know, worrying about what people think of me. I'll address it if I have to just to kind of, you know, it's content for the show.

[636] I have to do a show every day.

[637] So it's good.

[638] I found something to talk about today.

[639] But other than that, I don't care what people think because I can't, I've learned I cannot please everybody.

[640] And I don't, I, you know, they don't please me either.

[641] Are you, I would hope that you would be happy now.

[642] You've accomplished so much.

[643] I would hope that you would have a sense of, damn, you know.

[644] Yeah.

[645] I do have a sense of damn.

[646] But are you able to sit back at all and say, it's very easy to fall into a thing where you accomplish a lot, but you minimize it and you stuff it away because you almost become like, this is a very old analogy, and I apologize to the people in the room are going to laugh at me. like a Pac -Man that you're just trying to swallow more of those little dots.

[647] Just bear with me, kids.

[648] It was a game in the 40s.

[649] I think sometimes in show business I see some people that just, they want more, they want more, they want more, and I, you know, I always think there are certain people where I look at them and I say, man, I hope Ellen DeGeneres is able to sit back and go, Jesus Christ, I accomplished, look at all I've accomplished.

[650] You're still going to accomplish more, but you can, can you can feel it?

[651] Maybe not.

[652] I mean, I think so because I'm working on, you know, other things that are, that are, you know, happening.

[653] But, you know, I have, like, kids that love me. I have, like, teenagers that, like, I don't know what it is.

[654] I don't what, I have no idea.

[655] Maybe it's the silliness.

[656] It's me, but I just, I don't, I don't know why I'm here and how I got here.

[657] But I am so grateful and I am so happy every single day.

[658] And I don't ever take it for granted, ever.

[659] I will tell you this.

[660] every morning, people listening should know that Ellen and I do our shows on the same lot.

[661] And so I take a left -hand turn.

[662] There's often a red light there, and so I'm waiting there at the red light.

[663] And I'm often, there are times where I'm waiting as your audience is coming in front of me, especially if I leave the lot during the day and then I come back.

[664] I'll be stopping, you know, I'm watching your audience file in.

[665] And they are so psyched.

[666] They are so happy, and I become enraged because they seem, they're better than my crowd.

[667] They seem legitimately happier.

[668] We get prisoners from San Bernardino.

[669] It's a work release program.

[670] We often have people, we've restrained them from trying to leave.

[671] Is it the same audience with Richard Kahn?

[672] Yes.

[673] It's the same audience.

[674] And every night, they're like, I say, and tonight we have a great guest.

[675] And as I say, they go, Richard Kine.

[676] We know.

[677] We fucking know.

[678] And it's, I, but I watch your crowd go in and they are just elated and I will have pangs of jealousy.

[679] I'll just be, I'll just be looking at your crowd going, damn, that's a good crowd.

[680] You know, part of me wants to, like, roll down the window.

[681] And I'm, I can't believe I'm making the motion of rolling down a 1960s car window, which I don't know why I'm doing that.

[682] But I am.

[683] I'm an out -of -date mime.

[684] But I want to lean out the window And like, hey, gang, I know you're going to see Ellen Maybe you're going to come see me afterwards, hey?

[685] It's the same guy who wants to sign the crutches.

[686] It's the same guy.

[687] Hey, kid, come here, I'll sign your crutches.

[688] Leave me alone.

[689] You're a creep.

[690] But I just, I really, I see how happy you make people.

[691] I like how diverse they are too.

[692] I mean, it's a, you know, it's, you know, again, like I had lost a lot of people just because of being gay.

[693] And so to actually see, you know, young people, you know, older people, white, black, gay, you know, like every color, every age, every kind of person from all over the world.

[694] People fly in from, like, it is amazing to me. Like, it's amazing that something that I thought destroyed me, that I thought, you know, well, all right, but it was the right thing to do.

[695] And I'm glad I did it.

[696] But, you know, I'm not, my career will never be the same.

[697] And then you just kind of, it just goes to show you that you just like, you just trust, I mean, this is like woo -woo stuff, I guess, to some people, but you just trust that the universe really will take care of you.

[698] If you are making decisions for the right reasons, if you're not doing it for out of greed, out of ego, out of anything else, if you're just making the right decision for your soul to be exactly who is it's supposed to be while it's here for this time, then the universe is going to reward you.

[699] And it may not be on your timeline, but it will happen.

[700] And I feel like that's what's happening.

[701] And I'm going to ride this wave for as long as I'm supposed to.

[702] and enjoy it and be grateful for it because I am, I never thought in a million years I'd be sitting in the place that I'm sitting here with you.

[703] You had me until that last part.

[704] I remembered you, yeah, back in 1986 on Johnny Carson, you told him my dream is to one day do a podcast with a kid named Conan O 'Brien.

[705] He said, who's Conan?

[706] I said, you'll see.

[707] You'll see.

[708] And he went, well, he doesn't sound good.

[709] And he went, well, it's going to take him.

[710] take a while.

[711] I have kept you, first of all, everyone should know, Ellen probably did a thousand things today, including a show, and has worked really hard, and I kept her here, but kept her here this was a labor of love.

[712] I just really loved talking to you and very honored that you would stop by.

[713] I know you're really busy, but thank you.

[714] This was a, this was a mitzvah, as our people say.

[715] Thank you so much.

[716] It's a pleasure, and it's so weird that we never really see each on the lot, because we're right here.

[717] As I said, I am very afraid of the sun.

[718] You'll never see me outside.

[719] If you ever venture over.

[720] I will come over and I will warm up your crowd.

[721] Do it.

[722] Yeah, and you know what?

[723] You will not be happy.

[724] You'll be like, what's wrong with this crowd?

[725] They seem upset.

[726] Conan was here.

[727] Conan was here.

[728] And you'd be like, he frightened a kid who had a crutch.

[729] Anyway, thank you very much, Ellen.

[730] Thank you.

[731] All right.

[732] It's time to do.

[733] do a voicemail segment that we're now calling Vox Populi.

[734] No better way to grow a podcast than to embrace a dead language.

[735] Next week, all Celtic.

[736] Will you hand me the tissue that made me my nose start?

[737] I actually made a mess.

[738] Yes, and then the week after that, the week after that, our podcast will be said only in Assyrian.

[739] Oh, let's do like one in Elvish and cling on.

[740] I snotted.

[741] Okay, that's disgusting.

[742] You know, of all the people who I would imagine would have a real handkerchief.

[743] Yeah, I'm not this caricature that you paint me to be.

[744] Well, not in this one instant, but in every other ways.

[745] You're wearing jodhers today.

[746] It's ridiculous.

[747] I'm wearing jeans and a t -shirt and a jacket.

[748] He's wearing jodd -price, trust me. What's a jopper?

[749] You'll see.

[750] It's what directors used to wear in the 20s.

[751] I've probably got a writing crop as well.

[752] All right, let's move on.

[753] Okay, let's do...

[754] Fox Populi.

[755] Let's do number two, two.

[756] Hi, Cron, this is Taylor.

[757] I love the podcast.

[758] Here's my question.

[759] How come every time you introduce Sona, it sounds like you're not certain you know how to pronounce her last name.

[760] But every time you say her last name, you rush through it as if you're not certain that that's really how to say it.

[761] All right, keep up the good word, Dan.

[762] Bye.

[763] Well, a couple things.

[764] First of all, I didn't get his name.

[765] Well, I only have the transcription here, and it says, Creighton, this is Taylor, but I don't think either of those are right.

[766] I think he called you Creighton.

[767] I thought I heard Stuart.

[768] Yeah, I mean, clearly, first of all, sir, whatever you're...

[769] Oh, Taylor.

[770] Taylor might be it.

[771] I had a hard time hearing it.

[772] And I think this happens when you call someone from a submarine.

[773] Just wait to you surface next time, open the hatch, and get four bars at least.

[774] But anyway, thank you for saying kind things about the podcast.

[775] Do I do that, Sona?

[776] I act uncertain about your last name?

[777] I just heard of ding.

[778] Who dinged?

[779] That can't be me. Uh -oh.

[780] That's not me. Uh -oh.

[781] What if it's me?

[782] What if I forgot to?

[783] Oh, my God.

[784] Oh, my God, it was me. I forgot to put, and we can use this because this is really happening.

[785] Are you checking it?

[786] Yeah, I am.

[787] Oh, my God.

[788] Can I say who this is?

[789] Proves the podcast is not scripted.

[790] This is not scripted because I forgot to turn off my phone.

[791] It is, and this is name dropy if I say who it is.

[792] But I'm going to go for it.

[793] It's too late.

[794] I'm going to do it.

[795] It's, it's.

[796] It's Paul Rubens.

[797] It's Pee -wee.

[798] Oh, my God.

[799] Oh, my God.

[800] And we are taping this particular segment on Halloween, because we're taping it ahead of time, and it's a cartoon skeleton being tapped on the shoulder by a cartoon ghost, and then the ghost disappears, and that's from Paul Rubin.

[801] He just sent you a gift.

[802] He just sent me a Halloween gift.

[803] That's amazing.

[804] And listen, I'm not trying to be a dick here.

[805] It's just my phone dinged.

[806] and it's pee -wee and I'm the happiest person in the world because when you get a Halloween greeting, he takes his, he takes birthdays really seriously and he takes Christmas, all holidays really seriously.

[807] I'm sure he's sending these to a lot of people, but the fact that I just got that from peewee is just filled me with joy.

[808] That's pretty great.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Do you think he'll be my friend?

[811] No, I don't think so.

[812] Because your name is hard to pronounce.

[813] I don't think I'm tentative about your name.

[814] I think, I mean, it took me a while to get used to, your last name.

[815] I'm going to say.

[816] I'm proud of you.

[817] It's a mouthful.

[818] It's a tough one.

[819] There's a lot of consonants next to each other that shouldn't be next.

[820] Yes, my father, true story, worked really hard to make sure that our names elided with the name O 'Brien.

[821] He wanted it to flow together and he said because our last name starts with an O that's tricky.

[822] So if our names, if anyone's name ended in a vowel, that would make it tricky.

[823] If my name was Kona, Bokona, Kona, Ryan, that would just sound awful, right?

[824] Do you have any resentment that they named you Conan?

[825] Initially, I did.

[826] As a child, I was teased.

[827] There was nothing for a while.

[828] People just thought it was an interesting name.

[829] Then sometime in the mid -70s, people started to go, Hey, Conan, where's your sword?

[830] And I'd say, quit it, quit it.

[831] To school with Sylvester Stallone.

[832] Where's you, yeah.

[833] Well, it was, you know, he was an upperclassman.

[834] Where's you sword?

[835] No, but people would do that.

[836] They'd be like, where's you sword?

[837] And hey, barbaric, like the barbarian.

[838] and hey barbarian, and I go, quit it, quit it, just quit it, quit it.

[839] And it would shove me, and I'd go, come on, cut it out, cut it out.

[840] You shouldn't have done that voice.

[841] Just like Conan.

[842] Cut it out, cut it out, I'll get you someday, someday else.

[843] Was this just when the comic was out and then the movie came and was it horrible?

[844] No, well, yeah, it was when the comic was out.

[845] And this is before the movie.

[846] And then the movie came out and I was like, man, I'm screwed.

[847] But as time went on and I got into show business, is that me again?

[848] Get it together.

[849] Am I?

[850] No, that's not me. It's not me. Why can't we turn off our phones?

[851] Oh, it was me. It was Marlon Brando.

[852] What?

[853] Marlon Brando.

[854] Why, Matt?

[855] That's just fantastic.

[856] It just was name dropping.

[857] I went as big as I could, but then realized he's dead.

[858] Well, I think that's more impressive.

[859] You're getting Halloween text from beyond the grave.

[860] That's fantastic.

[861] It's just him tapping on a skeleton.

[862] Yeah.

[863] You could have chosen anyone.

[864] I know.

[865] You panicked.

[866] You know what you did?

[867] You panicked.

[868] I did.

[869] And I just saw a documentary yesterday.

[870] He was in, so he's like in my mind.

[871] Oh, man. You blow it.

[872] You panicked.

[873] I did.

[874] Well, okay, Mofsessian.

[875] Mofsessian.

[876] I disagree with this man. I don't know that I've been tenet about your last name.

[877] Well, to be fair, this guy didn't really pronounce his own name very well.

[878] Yeah.

[879] And he called us from, I think, 30 ,000 leagues under the city.

[880] Yeah.

[881] I don't know.

[882] I disagree with you, sir, whose name we don't know.

[883] But I hope you do continue to listen to the podcast.

[884] And I do hope that some.

[885] Someday you come to the surface and make the rest of your phone calls.

[886] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[887] Produced by me, Matt Goreley.

[888] Executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[889] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[890] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[891] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[892] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[893] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[894] Got a question for Conan?

[895] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[896] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[897] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[898] This has been a Team Cocoa.

[899] production in association with Earwolf.