395 - Your Mom Has a Headache

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hart Stark.

[3] That's Karen Kilkerif.

[4] This is a quiet episode, so no talking.

[5] Even us.

[6] This is your mom has a headache.

[7] Listen, a long day.

[8] Can you kids be quiet enough one second?

[9] Play the game who can be the quietest.

[10] I can read that let on a kid.

[11] Let's see who can be the quietest.

[12] I once said to my nephew who refused to eat.

[13] like let's see who could eat this hot dog fastest just to get him to like eat something and he did it it worked it fucking worked I mean I ate it fastest let's be honest you won you kicked his ass nice congratulated how old was he at the time he was like eight mm -hmm you won I'm a great auntie you're teaching that eight year old what the real world is like exactly eat or B8 that's right you think people are going to be nice to you at the hot dog eating contest they're not no I think they're going to wait around for you to eat a hot dog at the hot dog eating contest?

[14] No, it is every hot dog man for himself.

[15] Or a person, hot dog person.

[16] We're doing it again.

[17] We're talking about hot dogs again.

[18] What the fuck?

[19] I want someone that please go back, Alejandra, because I'm not going to make a listener do it.

[20] That would be rude.

[21] And check and see of every hot dog conversation has been started by me. What if a hundred clicked on and was like, no. I'm going to actually say no to that assignment.

[22] Your hot dog talk is my favorite, though.

[23] So I encourage it.

[24] She's in.

[25] She's down.

[26] I just want to see if I'm the hot dog pusher.

[27] You know what I mean?

[28] I do think hot dogs are funny and fun to talk about.

[29] Yeah, absolutely.

[30] Even if you start it, I'm here to absolutely finish it, hot dog wise.

[31] My hot dog, my nephew's hot dog that he won't finish because he doesn't eat.

[32] Are you allowed to?

[33] grab other people's hot dogs out in their mouth at a hot dog eating contest.

[34] Is that something you do?

[35] You get extra points if you eat someone else's hot dog.

[36] It's called a snatch away.

[37] Snatch.

[38] The hot dog snatch away.

[39] This is the PG -13 episode of My Favorite Murder.

[40] Welcome.

[41] True crime.

[42] Some comedy.

[43] Clearly comedy, obviously.

[44] Definitely.

[45] Hot Dog Talk, as Alejandra just coined it perfectly.

[46] Oh, should we start off with a corrections corner?

[47] A real piece of business.

[48] Definitely.

[49] I did Lori Valo last week.

[50] If you weren't here, listener, I did one story, and I did it for so long that we had to take a break.

[51] And now, Georgia's doing her story this week.

[52] But in talking about Mommy Doomsday, Lori Valo, I made a couple mistakes that a listener named Kim Chapman was nice enough to tweet about.

[53] I believe this is, yeah, it's a tweet from the social media platform X. And Kim Chapman says, episode 394, correct.

[54] Chad was a cemetery sexton, but it has nothing to do with the church.

[55] So we broke that up as like, it sounded like he worked at the church and then also sometimes dug graves.

[56] Our confusion about that is he was just like the outside guy.

[57] Oh, so he wasn't, it was like a higher for higher grave digger thing.

[58] You know what?

[59] Why am I saying?

[60] Kim Chapman knows, I don't know.

[61] I didn't know at the time.

[62] Why would I be the one making up a new correction?

[63] Because you are a sexton.

[64] What was it?

[65] Because, yes, a cemetery sexton.

[66] As we all are, we love to tell a tale.

[67] No, anyway, so here's the real correction.

[68] Yeah.

[69] Chad was a cemetery sexton.

[70] It has nothing to do with the church.

[71] And also, Lori's trial was not live streamed.

[72] Even the audio.

[73] It had to be purchased to listen to after the day ended.

[74] What?

[75] I mistakenly said, because it was being audio recorded, but I kind of interpreted that for some reason in my head as live streamed.

[76] So like you have to go to like Bitley and fucking download illegally the fucking recording of it.

[77] Again, I'm not going to speculate.

[78] I refuse to speculate.

[79] I'm going to say that's correct.

[80] These days.

[81] Here's the thing, though.

[82] I'm going to say, Kim Chapman, I really appreciate you sending in those corrections.

[83] You seem like a true crime devotee that knows what you're talking about.

[84] And I appreciate it as the kind of devotee that does not know what I'm talking about, almost ever.

[85] I really appreciate your expertise.

[86] We need a you on this.

[87] I bet she knows who brings up hot dogs all the time.

[88] I hope.

[89] She knows.

[90] She'll be like next week.

[91] It's always Georgia, except for one time in December, as a Christmas present, it was Karen.

[92] Cool.

[93] I'd like to formally apologize to the lovely woman who was walking by Vince and I and Cookie having breakfast in our neighborhood on the sidewalk today.

[94] And then Cookie's dog barked in her dog's face.

[95] And then she said, Sorry.

[96] Cookie has a dog?

[97] No. Cookie's dog barked in this lovely lady's dog's face because cookie gets, what?

[98] You're saying cookies dog barked in the lady's dog's face, but you mean cookie barked in the lady's dog's face, right?

[99] Yes.

[100] And then the lady said, oh my God, I'm listening to you right now.

[101] And then I just was like, oh, that's crazy.

[102] Oh, no. Like, now you think I have a attack dog who's really rude.

[103] And she was like, I don't even care about my dog.

[104] I'm listening to your podcast.

[105] She had a very cute, like, doodle of some sort.

[106] that was just like trying to be friendly.

[107] And then Cookie was just like, I'm tiny.

[108] I'm a chihuahua essentially.

[109] I'm going to attack you.

[110] But don't you like the idea?

[111] Because for some reason you kept saying Cookie's dog, that Cookie would have an even smaller dog for herself.

[112] Do you know how hard I've been trying to get Vince to get Cookie, let me get Cookie a smaller dog?

[113] And then how many pets would that be in the house if you did that?

[114] Five.

[115] And he made me promise when we got Moe, Cookie's kitten, that it'll be 10 years until they get another pet.

[116] So it's not working.

[117] Well, you can shop until then.

[118] And I do.

[119] I mean, I shopped adoption places.

[120] I don't shop places.

[121] That's right.

[122] And we wouldn't support shopping for pets.

[123] It's just insane.

[124] It doesn't make sense.

[125] There's so many that need a home these days.

[126] Adopt people.

[127] Come on, adopt.

[128] I am reading or listening to an audiobook, Mystic River.

[129] And it is so good, but so fucked up.

[130] Dennis Lehane.

[131] it's by Mystic River and it's like a true crime fucking novel legendary novel yeah it's really good and depressing right it's kind of intense what about you what are you doing can't talk about much because of the strike but that's right what I can't talk about is I went home to Petaluma very briefly just for like to go to a party essentially which was very fun but I was on an airline and I won't name check them because there's so much of that going on lately that I'm just going to be like it wasn't I'm not complaining per se but there is no room in this one airline I was on between your knees and the back of the seat in front of you and I am 5 '6 how does anyone do it that's even half tall truly I got in one of those airplanes that shall not be named in the bathroom I'm 5 5 and I could barely turn around and move in it you know what I mean And like, how do humans of average size live?

[132] They're adjusting things past the point of, like, that people can deal with it.

[133] It's not enough room.

[134] When did it stop being, like, about the customer on airplanes?

[135] I think somewhere in the middle of COVID where they said, we can get away with everything.

[136] Let's stack chairs on top of each other and just, like, jam everyone in.

[137] The reason I didn't pay attention to it on the flight up was because, because I was in an exit row.

[138] So I had way extra room.

[139] So once I was in their regular rows, I was like, oh my God, I think I might have claustrophobia.

[140] Yeah.

[141] You know, Vince had a panic attack in an exit row on a plane.

[142] And he's, because he's like 6 '3.

[143] Yeah.

[144] And he was in the middle seat because he always gives me the window.

[145] And he had a panic attack.

[146] And they had to do like, is there a doctor here thing?

[147] Oh, shit.

[148] Like put his head between his legs freaking out.

[149] And was it because people were just too close to him?

[150] Yeah, I think he got claustrophobic, but it was very scary.

[151] I should have given him the window.

[152] I still feel guilty about that.

[153] But isn't that just a different version of being enclosed?

[154] That's true.

[155] I don't think you should feel guilty about that.

[156] And he always says, I pee more.

[157] So you sit on the inside because I'm going to get up more than you do.

[158] Right.

[159] And also, I think panic attacks, man, I've had many in my day.

[160] Have you?

[161] Like real legit panic attacks?

[162] I had a panic attack.

[163] I love telling these stories, but once I started having seizures, I had a whole era of panic attacks because I was like, oh, I could drop at any moment.

[164] And then I would start looking around and trying to prepare for it.

[165] What would I do right now if I were to?

[166] Exactly.

[167] Just crazy.

[168] And then one time I was driving up the 101, going 75 miles an hour.

[169] And I realized I could have a seizure right now.

[170] And it was right in between the Vineland exit and Laurel Canyon, where it kind of does a one -on -one, going 75 miles an hour.

[171] And I realized I could have a seizure right now.

[172] And it was right in between the Vineland exit and Laurel Canyon, where it kind of does a the big S, and there's nowhere to pull over.

[173] Yes.

[174] So, wait, isn't that when you drink cold brew?

[175] No, the cold brew was when I started crying with no emotions.

[176] Right.

[177] I just wept for no reason.

[178] See, I've always just had a low level, not low, a median level of anxiety, but I don't get panic attacks.

[179] Think fucking God, you know what I mean?

[180] Well, the problem with them is they come on like a heart attack.

[181] Like, I'm sure Vince thought he was having a heart attack because all the sudden, your system goes bonkers and you're just like, what's happening?

[182] What am I doing right now?

[183] Which makes you panic more.

[184] Yes.

[185] Yes.

[186] And if you are like in enclosed spaces, worst case scenario, because he, all you can think is don't do this right now.

[187] Like I can't be doing this, which makes it worse, worse, worse.

[188] Yeah.

[189] Luckily our seat mate who was sitting on the outside row was so sweet.

[190] And like, you know, I started pressing like buttons, like the light button above my head being like, we need help and I was panicking and then he just like pressed that you know got people to come around and he was very nice well because he was like the outside right you know he could be a little more detached or whatever because that's that day's scary um I hope no one's on a plane right now hey are you on a plane don't worry about it because one millions of flights go off every day yeah i just flew twice this weekend everything's fine I hope you don't have a talker sitting next to you that's worse than anything really unless it's your partner in which case like I still don't want to talk that much when we're on a plane you know you know you have to do if you get a talker next year you you just lean over and say I'm so sorry I have COVID and then they won't talk to you anymore or turn toward you know report you they'll report you to the CDC that's brilliant should we do exactly right corner let's do it okay hey we have a podcast network it's called exactly right media here are some highlights well Well, first to start off, we want to wish a happy first birthday to Buried Bones, the legendary historical true crime podcast hosted by Kate Winkler -Dawson and Paul Holes.

[191] Join us in celebrating Paul Holes and Kate Winkler Dawson, because this week they discussed the Dayton Strangler who terrorized Ohio City in the first decade of the 20th century.

[192] And on Wicked Words, which comes out every Monday, Kate talks to Sandra Hempel, the author of the book, The Inheritor's Powder, a tale of arsenic.

[193] murder and the new forensic science.

[194] And this week, on I Said No Gifts, Bridger's guest is the hilarious Claudia O'Darty.

[195] She is such a rad Australian actress.

[196] I'm such a fan of hers.

[197] She's darling and so funny.

[198] Okay.

[199] So the fourth episode of Infamous International, the Pink Panther story, is out now.

[200] Yay.

[201] It's titled The Pursuit.

[202] And as the Pink Panthers become a global threat, a special Intrable Task Force steps in.

[203] And thank you guys so much for supporting Infamous International.

[204] It is at right now on the true crime list is at number 14 and overall it's at number 34, which is really huge.

[205] You guys know as well as we do.

[206] You guys know more than anybody.

[207] There's thousands and thousands of podcasts out there.

[208] You could be listening to anything you want.

[209] So the fact that you guys really do show up and support us every single time means the world to us.

[210] It's so exciting to see it do so well.

[211] And of course that means you guys have rated, reviewed it and subscribed it.

[212] And that's how they get on those lists.

[213] And that's That means more people find it.

[214] And we're so proud of this newest show.

[215] So thank you guys so much for supporting.

[216] And then as temperature start to drop, we want, Aaron, we want to be sure that your tootsies stay warm.

[217] Aaron Brown.

[218] Come on.

[219] Don't miss out on some cute MFM socks in our merch store at my favorite murder .com.

[220] I have a few pairs of those socks.

[221] They're very cozy and cute and make me happy.

[222] So check those out.

[223] Karen, you know.

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[225] Absolutely.

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[244] Goodbye.

[245] And now it's time for this week.

[246] It's Georgia time.

[247] It's my time to shine.

[248] Karen, sit back.

[249] Okay.

[250] I'm going to really try to stay out of your spotlight.

[251] I wish you wouldn't.

[252] And you're going to like this one, too.

[253] This is a good one for Karen.

[254] It's almost like I'm telling you your favorite bedtime story.

[255] Really?

[256] It's not a cold case.

[257] Thank you.

[258] It's not a, uh, you know, what else do I love?

[259] It's not the transcript of a 911 call.

[260] It's not any of those things.

[261] Okay.

[262] Today, Karen, I'm going to tell you about the first queen to be executed, Anne Boleyn.

[263] Oh my.

[264] Their eyes just lit up.

[265] Yes.

[266] And are you going to talk about her outfits at any point in this story?

[267] No, but I can add some stuff in.

[268] I can add in, you know, what are we talking about?

[269] Like puffy sleeves and headdresses and I think it was Anne Boleyn.

[270] Yeah.

[271] headdresses, right?

[272] I think maybe on peer waist where it's like cuts off under your boobs.

[273] Like cleavage for days, right?

[274] Cleavage time.

[275] Yeah.

[276] Like not just cleavage, like top of boob, you know, whatever that's called.

[277] Just a full double serving every day and night.

[278] How did they do it?

[279] They didn't.

[280] They had to execute her because of it.

[281] Okay.

[282] That's right.

[283] So Karen, for close to 500 years, Anne Boleyn has been described.

[284] and portrayed as a power -hungry, social climbing, seductress, who was ultimately beheaded for carrying on affairs with five men, including her own brother.

[285] Hmm.

[286] But what's true about her reputation and what's a bunch of bullshit?

[287] Let's take a closer look at Queen Elizabeth I first misaligned mother, Anne Boleyn.

[288] Anne Boleyn.

[289] We've heard a lot about her over the years.

[290] So the main sources I used for this story are two books.

[291] One is called Anne Boleyn, 500 Years of Lies by Halen Nolan, and the other is the life and death of Anne Boleyn by Eric Ives, and the rest of my sources can be found in the show notes.

[292] So Anne Boleyn is born sometime between 1501 and 1507.

[293] Most historians agree that she's born closer to 1501.

[294] Her parents are Thomas Bolin and Elizabeth Howard.

[295] The Bolin family has commoner roots.

[296] Anne's great grandfather was a merchant, but he got pretty successful at it.

[297] And the family had been on the rise in England for about three generations because of, of course, advantageous marriages, which we know all about here in Los Angeles.

[298] And shrewd real estate investing.

[299] Another fucking thing we know all about.

[300] That's right.

[301] Thomas, the dad, works in the court of King Henry the 7th and then in that of his daughter's future husband, King Henry the 8th.

[302] So they're like, you know, warming their way into the upper echelon of like, yeah, court.

[303] In 1513, when Anne is 13 years old, she's sent to live in the Habsburg court of Archduchess Margaret of Austria.

[304] Margaret isn't technically a queen, but rules the low countries as a regent for her 13 -year -old nephew.

[305] So they were like putting her in charge and shit because aunts should rule the world.

[306] I mean, I would really argue for that.

[307] Right?

[308] We know shit.

[309] We know shit, but we're not directly involved.

[310] We're not afraid to be like, eat fast.

[311] Right.

[312] Don't choke.

[313] Right.

[314] We step away.

[315] Don't eat fast.

[316] Don't choke.

[317] Is that what you said?

[318] I said, eat fast.

[319] Eat your hot dog fast, but don't choke.

[320] Yes, that's right.

[321] You know what I mean?

[322] A mom and dad wouldn't do that.

[323] No, wait.

[324] You'd never get to get in that hot dog eating contest if you ask your parents.

[325] Right.

[326] They'd say slow down.

[327] Okay.

[328] The low countries are made up of the Netherlands.

[329] Belgium, Luxembourg, and a part of Northern France.

[330] Like, can we please go there?

[331] It's the cultural trendsetter for all the other royal courts.

[332] Like, this is a place to be.

[333] And all European nobility wanted to send their children there to learn to be well -mannered, members of royal courts.

[334] And because also the other children there were like future spouses of the royals.

[335] They made connections with actual royals.

[336] Like, it was like a finishing school for like royal children.

[337] Mm -hmm.

[338] So Anne goes there.

[339] She gets rave reviews from Archduchess, Auntie Margaret.

[340] She writes to Anne's father and says, quote, I find her so bright and pleasant for her young age that I am more beholden to you for sending her to me than you are to me. Oh.

[341] Like she was like, this chick's fucking awesome.

[342] Five stars.

[343] Five stars.

[344] The historian Eric Ive summarizes other people's reactions to Anne and this time saying she was seen as, quote, intelligent, self -possessed, wide.

[345] awake, unquote, which is like, that's, I get it.

[346] You know, you see some people day to day and you're like, wake the fuck up.

[347] You're like a zombie, but yeah, not Anne.

[348] Yeah, Anne was right in there.

[349] That's right.

[350] A year later, Anne's French is so good.

[351] She learns French there that she gets a position in the court of Mary Tudor who marries Louis the 12th of France.

[352] Mary is King Henry the eighth sister.

[353] And the time of this wedding, Mary is 18 and Louis is 52.

[354] Yeah.

[355] Oh, yeah.

[356] Okay.

[357] Problematic.

[358] Louis dies the same month, Anne arrives in France.

[359] So Mary goes back to England and Anne becomes a maid of honor to Louis's daughter, who's 15 -year -old Queen Claude.

[360] So here's a quick thing.

[361] Maids of Honor and ladies -in -waiting are the queen's protectors and companions, the ones that, like, dress her and all this shit.

[362] You know, we've all seen those shows.

[363] They help the queen get dressed.

[364] They spend their time sewing, playing instruments, playing cards, praying, and reading religious texts together.

[365] So they're almost like her girl gang, you know.

[366] Yeah, they're her glam squad.

[367] But it's, can you imagine of the, in this day and age, you had like three girls that helped you get dressed?

[368] It's like, here's your black sweatpants.

[369] Here's your black v. neck shirt.

[370] Oh, my God.

[371] Anne, you look so good in that.

[372] Let's pray.

[373] And then we'll play a little mahjong together.

[374] Let's do it.

[375] Yeah.

[376] And the only difference between the.

[377] the maids of honor and ladies in waiting is that maids of honor are unmarried and ladies and waiting are married.

[378] So it's got to be cool to have like some new girl come in.

[379] She's like your age.

[380] You guys get to hang out and have some fun.

[381] Also there in the French court, which has a reputation for wild parties, lots of debauchery and lots of sex.

[382] And so there's reputation kind of starts that maybe Anne learned a lot of that there.

[383] But in reality, Queen Claude isn't actually involved in any of this and she and anne lead a very sheltered existence for one thing claude is extremely religious she's not going to these awesome french orgies you know yeah and for another she's constantly pregnant oh she has seven children in eight years so she's not going downstairs at one in the morning for the fucking caviar because she can't even eat raw fish no and fish eggs you know she's like i'll pass on pretty much everything because you keep making me have children right And so Anne Boleyn's like, well, this is my girl.

[384] Like, I'm not, I won't do it either.

[385] So that's like a rumor that starts about her.

[386] Regardless, popular lore about Am Belin says that she returns to England with some kind of sexual repertoire that's unknown to the tutor court.

[387] But this is almost certainly not true about her.

[388] So she immediately gets reputation.

[389] They've always loved to gossip about the royals.

[390] Yeah.

[391] Humans love a caste system.

[392] They love a pecking order.

[393] And then they love to hate the people at the top.

[394] Right.

[395] Okay.

[396] What Anne does probably learn about in France at the time is not sex, but is about the Reformation.

[397] In 1517, while 16 -year -old Anne is living in France, Martin Luther sets off a firestorm in Europe with his 95 Theses, Theses, which attack the Catholic Church, your friend, your favorite, the Catholic Church, and introduces Protestantism.

[398] Protestantism.

[399] You know, Protestantism, yeah.

[400] Protestantism.

[401] Though Anne will still consider herself a Catholic, she begins to believe that the church needs reforming.

[402] So she's a fucking normal average teenager that's just like questioning her background, questioning her religion.

[403] Yeah.

[404] You know, the good stuff.

[405] Martin Luther was very popular in his day.

[406] Yeah.

[407] I thought you were about to knock wood.

[408] You like moved your hand over here and I was like, what?

[409] Knock on wood.

[410] Let's hope that Martin Luther.

[411] turns out.

[412] Also, I don't know why I just said that.

[413] I don't know anything about Luther.

[414] I thought you did and I believe you because you were like Catholic or you're raised Catholic.

[415] So I was like, she knows more about this than I do.

[416] Here's the thing.

[417] I think I was safe to say that only because his religion was the thing that broke up Catholicism and actually like then began to compete with it.

[418] So I must be right in some conceptual way.

[419] But that's really where I go wrong every time is I always believe that to be true.

[420] Do you?

[421] It's been almost eight years of this shit.

[422] And are we at almost 400 episodes?

[423] Oh, I think so.

[424] I think they're coming around the bend.

[425] So you must be right sometimes.

[426] I mean, Alejandro, your assignment is to go through and find every time I was right.

[427] She's like, da -da -da -da -da -da -quick eight.

[428] It's been eight times.

[429] It's basically, you know, every time you think you're right, you've been corrected.

[430] So that was easy.

[431] Okay.

[432] Anna's called back to England in 1521 when she's about 20 years old.

[433] and she causes an immediate store in the Tudor court.

[434] Let me really quickly do some fucking Tudor history.

[435] King Henry the 8th is only the second king in the Tudor dynasty.

[436] Henry's father, King Henry the 7th, won the crown at the end of the, say it with me, War of the Roses.

[437] Which was a 30 -year civil war for control of the throne.

[438] And that's the only time I'm going to mention Henry the 7th.

[439] So from here on out, when I say Henry, I mean Henry the 8th.

[440] Okay.

[441] So before the War of the Roses, there was the Hundred Years War with France.

[442] Jesus, so much war.

[443] So much war.

[444] So it's been a rocky century and a half for England.

[445] Henry is the spare, not the heir, aka the one red heavy.

[446] Prince Harry.

[447] So he was the spare.

[448] He wasn't supposed to be king.

[449] But his older brother, Arthur, who was supposed to be king, dies at the age of 15, just five months after his marriage to 16 -year -old Catherine of Aragon.

[450] Okay.

[451] It sounds like fucking Game of Thrones shit right now, right?

[452] It is.

[453] I think that's kind of what they based it on, right?

[454] That makes sense.

[455] Catherine's parents are Spain's King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, and those are the same two people who brought you Christopher Columbus and the Spanish Inquisition.

[456] That's right.

[457] History.

[458] Sick with me now.

[459] Here's just a dot of history.

[460] I played Queen Isabella in our eighth grade play about Christopher Columbus.

[461] Columbus.

[462] And I got to sing a number called Money, Money, Money.

[463] And it was like...

[464] Oh, the classic 1500s, Money, Money, Money.

[465] All these people always came to me asking for money so they could go all around the world.

[466] So I sing, I had this whole song about the, all these dudes keep coming and asking me for money.

[467] And then I got to wear like a queen Isabella outfit.

[468] It was awesome.

[469] Is there video footage of that somewhere out there of Karen playing 84?

[470] Probably not.

[471] Probably not.

[472] A photo.

[473] Can we get a picture for the Instagram account?

[474] If there were, yeah, I mean, that would be amazing.

[475] Some, so here's what I remember about that night.

[476] Because no one in our family would have taken a picture unless like my sister brought her disc camera, which I don't think she did.

[477] My next door neighbor, Andy Winnington came to this show and he was in the band at the Petaluma Junior High.

[478] So this was St. Vincent's, the Catholic grammar school.

[479] And our band played first.

[480] And they were so bad that Andy was laughing out loud in the audience.

[481] And then he gave me shit about how bad our band was for like the rest of the year.

[482] He just kept laughing about it.

[483] He thought it was the funniest thing in the world because it truly was like like really bad.

[484] Yeah.

[485] That's me playing cello in sixth grade.

[486] Just see, just see.

[487] Just do it and see what happens.

[488] Yeah, you talented children.

[489] Yeah.

[490] So the match between Catherine of Aragon and Arthur is a very powerful match for the Tudor dynasty.

[491] So they're like, yay, raw, awesome.

[492] Right.

[493] And Henry's father, once Arthur dies, doesn't want that to slip away.

[494] So Henry's father and Queen Isabella are just like, let's just take Catherine, whose fucking husband just died, and marry her to the spare, who's now going to be the king, Henry, who's now 10 years old, you know, the ripe old age of 10.

[495] Really?

[496] She gets to marry a kid in fourth grade?

[497] Yeah, a 16 -year -old.

[498] She's like, I just want to take the fucking folks.

[499] wagon rabbit out for drives and you're making me marry a 10 year old like what wow they were i bet they were used to it though that stuff happened all the time absolutely so he's now supposed to be king they want them to get married to do this they need a dispensation from your friend the pope a dispensation is an official permission to do something that otherwise would be forbidden under your friend catholic law so i mean i just i don't want to be this related to the catholic church i feel okay you're quaint You know, I'm raised in it, but I have more of a Shnade O 'Connor's stance with it.

[500] Your frenemy.

[501] Right.

[502] Exactly.

[503] Okay.

[504] Henry, of course, is not interested in the marriage.

[505] And when he turns 14 as future king, he's able to reject the match.

[506] And so Catherine is in limbo for the next three years until Henry's father dies in 509.

[507] And now finally, 17 -year -old Henry becomes king.

[508] So he's like of age at this point.

[509] So he is a change of heart, decides he will marry Catherine.

[510] is now 23, so we've got 17 and 23, problematic a little, but you know.

[511] Not back then.

[512] Not back then.

[513] They get married and they have special permission from the Pope.

[514] So by the time Anne comes on to the scene in 1522, 13 years have passed, Catherine has given birth to one boy who unfortunately dies shortly after he's born.

[515] She has a series of stillbirths and miscarriages and gives birth to one girl who survives.

[516] And this is Mary, who will eventually become known as Bloody Mary because of her passionate quest to return England to Catholicism.

[517] And the hundreds of Protestants, she burns of this fucking steak.

[518] Jesus.

[519] Yeah.

[520] So she's not chill.

[521] And she's like super anti -Martin Luther.

[522] Right.

[523] But that's decades in the future.

[524] And Bloody Mary is about five years old when Anne gets to court.

[525] So Anne is 21.

[526] Catherine, the wife of Henry is about 38.

[527] Henry is.

[528] 32, the king is becoming increasingly agitated about not yet having a male heir, which he feels he needs in order to solidify the Tudor dynasty with a third generation.

[529] Like that's the most important, we all know, that's the most important thing in their lives.

[530] You know what I mean?

[531] Right.

[532] So Anne has this older sister named Mary, and she's super fun.

[533] She's already made of honor to Queen Catherine.

[534] And the same year Anne comes back from France, Mary becomes King Henry's mistress.

[535] So unlike Anne's rumored relationship, Mary's extramarital affair with the king is confirmed.

[536] So there's all these, like, these stories about Anne, but they're not true.

[537] But Mary is like, for sure, for sure, the mistress.

[538] But Queen Catherine, who has been raised a princess and is a professional royal, basically, just to turn a blind eye to her husband's philandering.

[539] Philanthropy.

[540] Philanthropy.

[541] No, she's all about the philanthropy.

[542] be.

[543] The philandering is the problem, but she can't care about it.

[544] You know what I mean?

[545] Right.

[546] It sucks.

[547] Can't show it.

[548] No. Right.

[549] You have to let it happen.

[550] And she hasn't given her an air so she can't really, or male air, so she can't really make any demands herself, poor thing.

[551] So there's a third Bolin kid in the tutor court, and that's Anne and Mary's brother, George.

[552] And Anne and George are said to have a very close relationship.

[553] The two love to banter together.

[554] They have a lot of inside jokes.

[555] People at court find them a bit annoying when they're together.

[556] So that fun brother and sister.

[557] When we were kids, my parents divorced, we all had to go to family counseling.

[558] And my brother and I just started making up these inside jokes because we weren't doing well.

[559] And so we like, that's how we bonded.

[560] And the therapist fucking hated us because my brother and I. And to this day, we have a secret handshake that we made up in family therapy to annoy the therapist.

[561] Nice.

[562] Someone psychoanalyze that, please.

[563] And we still do the, we do the secret hands shake whenever we see each other.

[564] So they're that kind of brother and sister, you know.

[565] So Anne's debut at court is in pageant, a kind of skit with music and dancing that royals and members of court would perform.

[566] This particular pageant is about the virtues of good ladies and gentlemen, and each player is cast as a particular virtue, Ann plays Perseverance, while her sister Mary plays kindness, and these are elaborate productions with multi -story sets and beautiful costumes.

[567] Hey, you love costumes.

[568] According to historian Eric Ives, Anne and the other women wear, quote, oh, hey, it is here.

[569] Thanks, Allie.

[570] White satin, each with her character or reason, picked out 24 times in yellow satin, and the headdresses were of cowls of Venetian gold set off by Milan bouquets, unquote.

[571] Wow.

[572] So that's what they wore.

[573] So they had these things of like, here she is.

[574] Look at how fucking eligible this chick is.

[575] Blah, blah, blah.

[576] A pageant, like a beauty pageant, but with a little story around it.

[577] Okay.

[578] And there's a huge disagreement about what Anne Boleyn looked like.

[579] And this is mainly due to the fact that most accounts of her were either written by people who wanted to be in favor with her daughter later, Elizabeth I first, or else by political opponents of Anne or Elizabeth who fucking hated her.

[580] So it's hard to know exactly what she looked like.

[581] So some accounts describe Anne as a great beauty while others say she had three arms, a protruding tooth, and a large growth coming out of her neck.

[582] There are also very few surviving portraits of her and the ones we have might not even be of her.

[583] So most historians agree that Anne is basically just fine looking, has dark hair.

[584] But, What makes her stand out in court is her wit, her style, her charisma, and her intelligence.

[585] So Anne quickly becomes extremely popular at court and becomes a maid of honor to none other than Queen Catherine.

[586] If she became popular in court, I bet those descriptions of her being, you know, quote unquote unattractive are the thing that's gossip because that's a part of it.

[587] Right.

[588] And maybe she was just like, you know, normal looking.

[589] It's just like average, fine, whatever.

[590] She doesn't have to be a great beauty because she's smart.

[591] as fuck and that's how like that's you know that'll keep the marriage going sure until they kill you so in those earlier years in the tutor court anne has a few potential suitors one attempted arranged marriage and then she and a man named henry percy tried to arrange their own marriage and these efforts are thwarted by a man named cardinal thomas wolsey who is the lord high chancellor who's essentially king henry's business and administrative guy so he's the behind the scenes power broker in the tutor family he's a political rival of the belin family and so he's been working to arrange a different marriage for this dude henry percy that anne had fallen for so this dude thwarts the potential love match so like her life could have been completely different she could have picked out her own fucking husband she could have moved on with her life but no this cardinal thomas wolsey is a dick so in 1526 Henry has lost interest in Anne's sister Mary, unfortunately.

[592] And Mary's now married.

[593] And so Henry, the fucking king, turns his attention to now 25 -year -old Anne Boleyn.

[594] And here's where it all goes to shit.

[595] Henry has already stopped going to Queen Catherine's bedroom.

[596] He's already pondering an annulment or a divorce because of her supposed failure to produce a male heir.

[597] But when he first starts pursuing Anne, it's because he wants her to be his mistress, not his wife.

[598] And this changes over the course of a year.

[599] And we can chart the change through Henry's 16 surviving love letters to Anne.

[600] Wow.

[601] So those like exist.

[602] Unfortunately, none of her responses exist, but we do know from Henry's letters that she didn't always respond.

[603] I think she was playing this like, not a game.

[604] Maybe she like wasn't even interested, but whatever it is, it fucking works because he like slowly went from being like, I want you to be my mistress.

[605] And she's like, fuck you no thanks ha ha and to him going let's get married like she did something i don't want to say right because that's like the end game being marriage isn't it's not who gives a shit but like that's if that was her point that it worked well back then that's all they gave you shit about it's not we can't be like it's today it's the same as today it was 1500 so it's like a completely different world but i almost do get like a feeling and just from this stuff that like Maybe she didn't want to be the king's wife or the queen, I guess you would call it.

[606] If she wasn't responding to his letters, she didn't want to be his mistress, which some would think would maybe lead to being the wife.

[607] She, like, wanted to marry some other dude and they wouldn't let her.

[608] It seems like she wasn't that interest.

[609] Like, she wasn't pursuing it.

[610] Right.

[611] And she didn't have to, because women didn't really have a choice back then.

[612] So it was just kind of like, if the king picks you, you basically expect him.

[613] in your chambers or whatever, right?

[614] I mean, like, which then would actually, psychologically, it would make sense that if she is going like, oh my God, I'm so not into this, then he's like, I must have you.

[615] So the reason she, essentially, she doesn't want to be the mistress, even of the king, is that her sister, Mary, does get married after her affair with the king, but not particularly advantageously because she had had an affair with the king.

[616] So, like, she didn't marry up as high as she could have because this sullied her reputation.

[617] And Anne doesn't want the same thing to happen to her.

[618] So she stays away from McCourt at her family's home in Heaver Castle.

[619] And this is where Henry sentenced most of the love letters, as well as a, how romantic is this, a dead deer, which he had hunted for Anne.

[620] Oh.

[621] Which actually, like, at the time, it's like deer meat.

[622] Great.

[623] Yeah, that's probably a very not a threat.

[624] which is what it kind of appears to be.

[625] It's not.

[626] On its face.

[627] See, it's all different.

[628] You know, back then it was like the most romantic thing you could do.

[629] Kill a deer for a girl.

[630] Kill a royal deer.

[631] We don't know exactly what happens, but after about a year of this back and forth, it becomes clear from Henry's later letters that the conversation moves towards marriage.

[632] And this is something that Anne is like, okay, like, we can talk about that.

[633] But by the summer of 1527, King Henry is showering her with gifts, including rings, bracelets, brooches, diamonds, rubies, silver book bindings, velvet book bindings among many other things.

[634] Wow.

[635] Like dead deer.

[636] And dead deer.

[637] So King Henry, now about 37 years old, and lists Cardinal Woolsey, that fucking guy who said nope to her marriage, to go to the Pope and ask for permission to annul his marriage to Queen Catherine, which is like, you can't do that in the Catholic Church, right?

[638] Divorce.

[639] It's like a no -no.

[640] Well, annulment means that there was no grounds like it was never like not solidified.

[641] Anyway, there's a couple things that qualify it for being annulled.

[642] But there's like a certain rules, church rules of like you have to qualify for it to be annuled because that the other thing is divorce and I have no idea whether or not divorce was legal back then.

[643] So Woolsey has a hard time getting that permission.

[644] The problem is that Henry's main argument for seeking in the annulment is the fact that Catherine, his wife, had been married to his brother.

[645] And so he claims that her failure to produce a male error demonstrates the illegitimacy of the marriage in God's eyes.

[646] But the Pope had already granted the official permission saying Henry could marry Catherine.

[647] He says, if he grants it, it says that he's admitting it'd been wrong to allow them to marry in the first place.

[648] And he doesn't want egg on his frock.

[649] So he's like, no. Also, Catherine does come from an extremely powerful.

[650] royal family as you know because you played her mom that's right isabella queen isabella and her own nephew is the holy roman emperor of all people and this is arguably the pope's most important political ally so it's all fucking politics don't pretend god is involved everyone like what a bunch of bullshit right so ultimately this causes the downfall of none other than cardinal wolsey because he can't get it to happen or like well it's your fucking fault fuck you.

[651] So in 1529, having been unable to secure the annulment, Woolsey is first stripped of his title of Lord Chancellor and is then arrested for treason.

[652] He dies on his way to trial.

[653] Oh, what a bummer.

[654] And this is all fine with Anne Boleyn, of course, because she didn't fucking like Woolsey to begin with.

[655] But going back to her time in France, she's also a true believer in reforming the church.

[656] And she shows King Henry reformer texts, which point out that the Bible never mentions a pope and says that kings are actually highest authority next to God.

[657] So she's like, let me show you what I think.

[658] She like went to the OG text and was like, hey, guess what?

[659] They don't even acknowledge you in this book.

[660] So that's a badass move.

[661] Bullshit.

[662] I call bullshit on everything.

[663] Like the world.

[664] She's essentially calling bullshit on the government and how it works.

[665] Which is pretty rad.

[666] The text she shows them are incredibly controversial, even heretical.

[667] but they make an impression on the king and they also happen to chart a path that would make Anne Queen but most historians agree that Anne was a true reformer and wasn't only serving her own ambitions so she actually was really interested in the stuff.

[668] Henry finds a new fixer, upper, a man named Thomas Cromwell whose name is so familiar.

[669] He doesn't have the same title that Wilsie did but he winds up having a similar rule and he is the person who ultimately gets King Henry, the annulment, the not by getting permission from Rome.

[670] In 1532, Cromwell convinces Parliament to come up with a list of abuses in the Catholic Church and to pronounce King Henry, the leader of the Church of England, and this means Henry can get the annulment and finally marry Anne.

[671] They're married in a secret ceremony at the end of 1532.

[672] The marriage is made public in 1533, and in June of that year, Anna's crowned queen.

[673] Catherine's title has changed to Dowager Princess, and she moves to several different palaces before her death three years later.

[674] Like, what a bummer, just discarded.

[675] I actually think I might take on the title of Dowager Princess.

[676] I wish she would.

[677] I think that really suits me in my middle age.

[678] Do you wear like that thing with a veil?

[679] A veil, and then, I don't know, maybe just start hunching over.

[680] I think I always thought, like, there's a thing called the Dowager's hump, which is like some sort of, what do they test?

[681] to foreign school where they make you bend over.

[682] Spine doculus.

[683] Scoliosis?

[684] Scoliosis.

[685] Thank you.

[686] Scoliosis.

[687] Thank you.

[688] Okay.

[689] So Anne is about 32 years old when she's married and crowned and she quickly becomes pregnant, which is like the whole fucking point.

[690] She gives birth to a healthy baby girl, Elizabeth, the future queen of England.

[691] This is a big disappointment, of course, because it's a girl.

[692] Anne had been sure it was a boy.

[693] Doctors and the toothsayers had been sure it was a a boy.

[694] The birth announcement had already been written as a boy, and they had to be edited to change the word prince to princess.

[695] Like, that's how fucking sure they were.

[696] In anticipation of a boy, a celebratory jousting match had been arranged.

[697] This has to be called off.

[698] Like, they were fucking sure, finally, it was a boy.

[699] But also, why does it have to be called off?

[700] They can't have a girl jousting, boys only?

[701] Because it's not the same kind of celebration.

[702] It's so phallic, the jousting you know still elizabeth the baby is given a lavish christening and henry and anne believe there is still time to have a boy you got to have the big sister right england's break from the catholic church is ongoing and anne continues to be a reformer she's a fucking rebel she keeps an english version of the bible in her room for anyone to read since many have only ever read it in latin which means they don't totally understand what's going on meaning the pope and all these the church is in charge of like the definition and what you think, right?

[703] And so it's technically prohibited to have an English version of the Bible since the Church of England hasn't caught up with its own laws or its own version of what will become Protestantism yet.

[704] So Anne advocates on behalf of people who have been imprisoned for possessing English versions of the Bible.

[705] So she's before her time for sure.

[706] Anne's true passion for reform is also where the first seeds of her.

[707] demise come from so her former ally this thomas cromwell starts to become an adversary after england's break from the catholic church there's disagreement on where all the wealth from england's monasteries should go and argues that it should go to the people into charitable causes like a normal fucking empathetic human being but cromwell argues that it should come back to the king and be distributed among none other than his close friends like oh that's convenient for you so anne's relationship with her husband henry also becomes rocky fairly quickly he'd been chasing her for about seven fucking years trying to get up in that and now that he has finally gotten what he wanted of course he's not quite sure why he wanted it so badly anne's wit and her outspokenness and her charisma the things that initially drew henry to her are no longer as charming to him anymore now that he expects her to not be herself anymore now that she's a wife She challenges him in a way that Catherine didn't.

[708] He begins to turn his attention towards someone new, a woman named Jane Seymour, who was one of Anne's maids of honor.

[709] So he's just like plucking him up.

[710] Over the course of 1535 and early 1536, Anne, now about 35, has three miscarriages.

[711] And she finds herself in a very similar position to Catherine of Aragon.

[712] This time, though, King Henry can't say that the marriage was invalid.

[713] So he can't just get another annulment, right?

[714] That would be putting his own foot in his mouth.

[715] So he assigns Thomas Cromwell to gather evidence against Anne.

[716] So what Thomas Cromwell finds is this.

[717] On one occasion, Anne, who like all queens was expected to engage in some, like, degree of slightly flirty banter with the court people at parties or whatever, made a remark that went too far.

[718] She said to a courtier named Henry Norris, quote you look for dead men's shoes for if it ought came to the king but good you would look to have me how is that that was my British accent unquote is that good it was really good thank you yeah really good what she meant was quote I think you have a crush on me and if the king died you would be asking me out oh wow which is like hot but this is technically treason because is no one is supposed to talk about the king dying.

[719] So the remark to Henry Norris is literally the only charge against Anne that historians believe actually happened.

[720] So every fucking thing else that they said she did to kill her, that's the, her saying that one thing is the only thing that actually like stands a test of time.

[721] Right.

[722] So Cromwell arrests a court of musicians who after being tortured admit to having an affair with Anne.

[723] On May 2nd, 1536, Anne is arrested for treason and for having a court of.

[724] affairs with five men, including her own brother, George Bolin.

[725] So they're like, you fuck these dudes and you fucked your brother.

[726] Like, it's like almost an added level of humiliation.

[727] It seems like that's just insane.

[728] Yeah.

[729] The only evidence that Cromwell can produce that she had an affair with her brother is that on one occasion, George visited Anne for a long time.

[730] That was his proof.

[731] Historians mainly agree that the Norris conversation did probably happen, but the rest of the charges are completely made up so on the day of her arrest 35 year old anne is brought to the tower of london to the same royal apartments she stayed in before her coronation so she's just fucking back there and that had been just three years earlier so like that's how long she was queen for it's just three years yeah about two weeks later she and her brother are tried separately but the result of the trial is a foregone conclusion the other men the musicians have already been found guilty.

[732] There's a jury of 27 men, but all of them know that the king wants a very specific outcome for this trial.

[733] So both Anne and her brother are ultimately sentenced to death.

[734] Yeah.

[735] There's some disagreement among historians about why King Henry took the unprecedented step of executing his wife instead of just finding a way to divorce her and maybe send her to a nunnery.

[736] Like it's pretty extreme, especially since his last wife, he just kind of figured out a way to like get out of it, right?

[737] Mm -hmm.

[738] Something Thomas Cromwell influenced a decision since he and Anne were at odds politically, and she was outspoken about her beliefs.

[739] So another thing of, you know, fucking staunch women are too much for these dudes to handle.

[740] And she didn't give him an air, right?

[741] That's the big, that's the real thing, is he wants that air.

[742] Essentially, yeah, yeah.

[743] But he only gave her three years, you know?

[744] Right.

[745] So it's not like he gave her 10 years and it didn't happen.

[746] It almost sounds like he got bored of her.

[747] Right.

[748] More than anything.

[749] Others feel that Henry simply did it to save face to be able to marry Jane Seymour and also to have a son, like you said.

[750] The other wife that Henry would eventually behead, Catherine Howard, admitted to adultery.

[751] But Anne never did.

[752] Like, there's no real evidence that she had any kind of affair.

[753] So there's all these rumors about her.

[754] She has a bad reputation in history, but there's no evidence at all that this was true.

[755] So Thomas Cromwell assigns four ladies in waiting to be with Anne in the days leading to her execution.

[756] So she's to fucking hang out and sit around in these apartments while she's about to be fucking executed.

[757] Yeah.

[758] Like, what a bummer.

[759] And they, the ladies in waning are not her closest confidants, which is done on purpose, you know.

[760] Kroma wants them to spy on her, but instead they start to feel sorry for Anne in her final days.

[761] Anne goes back and forth between grief and shock.

[762] Sometimes she even has laughing fits because she's just like, this is absurd.

[763] Yeah.

[764] In the days leading after her execution, she gives her final confession to the archery.

[765] Bishop of the Church of England, she confesses to jealousy, but nothing else.

[766] And this is why people see this as solid evidence that Anne did not commit adultery.

[767] She's already been condemned to die, and she, like everyone else at this time, believes in hell.

[768] So she would have confessed at this point that she had had an affair with, you know, the church.

[769] Because otherwise she didn't think she would have committed herself to eternal damnation by lying.

[770] So it's pretty certain that she didn't lie about it.

[771] Right.

[772] The four men, including Anne's brother, are all executed two days before she is.

[773] Their executions are held on Tower Green outside of the castle walls for all to see.

[774] Anne can't see the execution from our apartments, but since those executions are public, she can probably hear the crowd's reaction to those innocent men and her own brothers hanging.

[775] And it's like a little preview of what she's going to go through.

[776] Like, it's suddenly real.

[777] Yeah.

[778] I can't imagine.

[779] The four men are killed the traditional way, which is with an axe, which I guess doesn't get the job done right away.

[780] When you have an axe, you have to swing it a few times.

[781] No. I know.

[782] So Anne's execution date is set from May 19th, 1536.

[783] Her lays in waiting, dresser, and a dark gray silk gown and an ermine wrap.

[784] What's that?

[785] I think it's ermine.

[786] And it's a kind of mink.

[787] Okay.

[788] Irman rack.

[789] Now that is more than I know about it, even if you made it up.

[790] She's walked to a platform that's been built specifically for the occasion near a part of the castle called the White Tower.

[791] And it's been built in an area that's meant to be private because the king is like giving her these last charitable fucking moments on Earth.

[792] Yeah.

[793] So good of him.

[794] Yeah.

[795] People have found a way into the tower grounds.

[796] And when she's brought to the platform, there are about 2 ,000 spectators.

[797] Jesus.

[798] I mean, this used to be like a fucking Saturday out is like, let's go watch people get killed.

[799] Yes, for real.

[800] And also I bet you because she was, you know, all that gossips going around about her.

[801] It's all that stuff of like, you know, Protestants versus Catholicism.

[802] She's bad in this way.

[803] She's, you know, people are spreading rumors.

[804] So then by the time they go down there to see her get beheaded, it's like, yeah, you deserve it.

[805] So King Henry the 8th, to his credit, I guess, he planned the whole entire event himself.

[806] I think this shows that maybe he was like, I know, this isn't right.

[807] And maybe I feel a little bad about it.

[808] How do you figure?

[809] Well, listen, he is sent for a particularly skilled swordsman from France to do the beheading, which is a big deal.

[810] Okay.

[811] Yeah.

[812] So a beheading by a sword is much faster and less painful than the one.

[813] by an axe, which sometimes required multiple chops.

[814] So he did that.

[815] He put it in a private area.

[816] And also, the sword has been hidden in some hay, so she won't see it as she's being let up.

[817] And the executioner goes barefoot, so she won't know when he's coming.

[818] So those are the kindnesses he offers her.

[819] Okay.

[820] It's not enough, though.

[821] You know, ultimately, it's not the greatest.

[822] It's really like breaking up with someone And then being like, but I bought you a snickers Like it's like, well, but way worse, way worse.

[823] So Anne's ladies in waiting help her gather her hair Into a linen cap and she kneels facing the crowd And she makes her final remarks.

[824] She praises the king.

[825] She asks that they pray for her.

[826] And once again, she does not confess.

[827] She kneels and the barefoot swordsman sneaks up behind her Quickly beheading her.

[828] because her execution by sword is so swift some accounts say that her mouth continues moving for a few moments after her head is cut off but anne's ladies in waiting quickly cover her head with a handkerchief king henry as we all know will go on to have four more wives jane seymour will die but does produce a male heir the king divorces anne of cleaves the heads katherine howard and katherine parr outlives him after the death of king henry and and the death of his son Edward and some success in drama.

[829] That's like a whole other fucking story.

[830] It is Anne's daughter, Elizabeth, who becomes the Queen of England.

[831] Mm -hmm.

[832] Anne solidifies England's position as a Protestant nation and shrining a lot of the reforms her mother was so passionate about.

[833] She rules for almost 50 years in what will later become known as England's golden age.

[834] On her finger, she wears an elaborate ring, encrusted with diamonds and ruby, and it has a secret compartment that flips open like a locket and inside there are two portraits.

[835] One is of herself and the other most historians agree is of her mother and that is the story of the life and death of Anne Boleyn who probably was a little ambitious but what the fuck is wrong with that?

[836] Wow.

[837] That was like a full on history lesson.

[838] I know.

[839] Look at me. Look at you and your interests.

[840] I know.

[841] Can you imagine us having done that story and the story you did last week together in three bucking hours?

[842] Just like, and one more thing.

[843] And another thing.

[844] And another thing.

[845] Wow, great.

[846] I mean, look, they just knocked that one down.

[847] Yeah, that's right.

[848] Getting our work done.

[849] No, we got to go have a Monday night.

[850] Yeah.

[851] I'm going to go walk cookie.

[852] I'm going to fucking.

[853] Go touch grass.

[854] Go be out.

[855] outside.

[856] Yeah.

[857] That fresh, crisp fall air that's out now.

[858] Oh, it's almost spooky Halloween.

[859] I was just laughing with Bradford about this.

[860] It's like, they started putting out Halloween stuff after Fourth of July, like so early, but I'm loving it.

[861] It's people are so into it and so excited and like, you can tell everyone had a bad summer?

[862] And they're like, can we get on with this nonsense?

[863] Can we put on long sleeve shirts and start putting pumpkins with faces everywhere, please?

[864] Did she see the thing where they, like, put peanut butter on a pumpkin in the shape of a jack -a -lantern and then put it outside and let the rabbits and the squirrels eat along the peanut butter and then it turns into a jack -a -lantern because they just eat the peanut butter?

[865] Oh, my God.

[866] So they made it.

[867] I mean, it's everybody loves spooky season.

[868] It's just the truth.

[869] Sure.

[870] Well, thank you for listening.

[871] I bet you if you're listening to this podcast, you love it more than most people.

[872] Definitely.

[873] And that's why you're still listening to us.

[874] We appreciate you.

[875] We do.

[876] Thanks for being here.

[877] We have fun with you.

[878] You know, and because of that, we want to tell you to stay sexy.

[879] And don't get murdered.

[880] Good -ray!

[881] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[882] This has been an exactly right production.

[883] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[884] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[885] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[886] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachie.

[887] Our researchers are Marin McClashin and Ali Elkin.

[888] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[889] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.

[890] Goodbye.

[891] Follow My Favorite Murder on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode.

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