111 - Figure It Out Kevin

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Hello.

[17] Hi, and welcome to my favorite murder.

[18] the podcast your weekly true crime podcast hosted by karen kilgarra and georgia and georgia hardstark and that's us and there's stephen over there on the ones and twos make making it even happeninger who are you going to say he's making it happening or he's making it happening he's making it happening and making it happening or because he took an improv class he knows how to heighten he yes anded He ascended our eternal improv that is this podcast.

[19] That's exactly what I was going to say.

[20] And.

[21] And that's correct.

[22] The hanging and.

[23] How are you?

[24] I'm good.

[25] I feel like a lot of a bit, a lot of actually relevant things have happened since we last recorded.

[26] Yeah.

[27] For us to catch up on.

[28] Yeah.

[29] Because we, yeah.

[30] Because last week we put up a live episode.

[31] Mm -hmm.

[32] So when we miss that week, we miss the.

[33] talking.

[34] Yeah.

[35] So we have to talk about the Oscars.

[36] For example.

[37] What?

[38] A monologue.

[39] Well, no, the one, the thing I was going to say, which I'm excited to talk about, is the four -part ID channel series called the Golden State Killer.

[40] It is not over.

[41] Yes.

[42] I thought you.

[43] I was like, it's not over.

[44] Oh.

[45] That's the full title.

[46] It was for, yes.

[47] Every time that title card would come up, I'd be like, it's okay.

[48] We get it.

[49] It's not over.

[50] Yeah.

[51] So the Golden State Killer now is on the fucking tip of everyone's lips.

[52] That's right.

[53] Because Michelle McNamara's book came out.

[54] Yeah.

[55] And I'll be gone in the dark, which I've been listening to obsessively.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Almost done.

[58] And I like don't want to finish it.

[59] So I'm listening to other shit.

[60] So I don't have to.

[61] Yeah.

[62] So it won't be over.

[63] Yeah.

[64] Because it's not over.

[65] No, I know.

[66] It's not over.

[67] It's correct.

[68] It's not over.

[69] You know what's funny is I, so Pat and Oswald, who is Michelle's husband sent us copies of the book so that we could have it because he knows but I forgot that I had preordered it long long ago right so I had two copies I was holding yours because he sent them both of my house then a couple days later I got a third copy so now me you and stephen all have copies of Michelle's book but the cool news is that Patton just sent me a picture today of the New York Times book review bestsellers list and Michelle is number one on the nonfiction list yes yeah she's number one and it's so cool like it's so as a person who followed her from the true crime diary yeah and i used to just pour over that thing i remember the post that she wrote when she talked about how eron's original nightstocker that it was too confusing and it needed a better title and she it was her idea to call him the golden state killer which is so like forward thinking yes in a way that's like you know this is needs to be and people need to know what this is because there's all these victims who are not getting the attention that they deserve to have their case solved so if we give it a better name people will pay attention to it more exactly right so smart it's not something i would ever have thought of you know of you know that that's important and why yeah she was she was very masterful and the whole her whole approach to it was so good she got cops to start talking to each other to share information is it's very cool story and i'm sure most of the people listening to this are either reading it right now or listening to it right now in some way.

[70] I'm sure that has a lot to do with that those numbers on that list.

[71] So good job, you guys.

[72] I'm so excited and thrilled that she gets that kind of remembrance and also that it gets that level of exposure.

[73] But you know what I was going to say is that ID channel, I was actually looking because it's produced so well.

[74] And it's a company called Sirens Productions, which makes me think it's the ladies, but they have survivors.

[75] They have victims of the Golden State Killer when he was the East Area Rapist in Sacramento and some people from down here.

[76] But I'm thinking of those first, when the first couple of his, like, original victims were talking, I got really nervous that it was like, how was this going to get handled?

[77] Right.

[78] And they were the, it was just that thing of, like, people who had been through the shit.

[79] Strong people.

[80] The victims on that were interviewed here and, like, the victims family members were interviewed as well are strong.

[81] resilient people it's that are just there to be like we want this solved we want anybody who knows anything and we because it's it's really frustrating and like I'm knee deep in it right now from watching that and from listening to the book and and of course after you know I listen I go on Reddit and I read all the message boards and I read all the theories and so I'm kind of in that phase of like being inside of this insane case and it's really frustrating and angering because it doesn't make any fucking sense that hasn't been solved that he hasn't been found it doesn't make any sense except for the fact that it was the 70s in the beginning and then he did the classic thing that that every time it's like when you switch cities or change jurisdictions but it's like as soon as they found that out they should be there is enough evidence and I can I'm saying this for like the cops too there must be so frustrated with this is like to piece those then together and be like okay this is the suspect we thought it was and now he can match him up because he was in Irvine too.

[82] And it almost would make it more solvable now.

[83] But it's not.

[84] Well, yes, because it doesn't, there's, it's not like there is a database.

[85] It's that thing where when you try to look anything up from before 1990, there's nothing there because it was all paper or it was documented in some other way.

[86] Like that was the, I loved the fact that they had the detective, the female detective who worked on it in the 70s, who was the woman who was speaking.

[87] she, I was telling Georgia this, she was speaking at that very infamous this, the town hall meeting where a man stood up, said, I don't understand, this is impossible that anybody could, if there's a man in the house, that anybody would, that their wife would be attacked.

[88] Right.

[89] Blah, blah, blah.

[90] And then like a month later, that family was attacked.

[91] Just horrifying it.

[92] And they know then that that meant he was there.

[93] And he was this really high level predator.

[94] But she, this detective in this meeting, is telling the women in the room, she literally says the words, don't be polite, attack him and try to injure him.

[95] If you can at all, if you get the upper hand in any way, try to injure him.

[96] And hearing a woman in 1977, go, don't be polite to people.

[97] She says, like, we've been raised to be polite and don't do that and blah, blah.

[98] Yeah, it's incredible.

[99] And to this day, she's as sharp as attack.

[100] She looks amazing.

[101] She's like right there.

[102] And she's, everything she said was just, just so, you know, it was very, it was all about we need this salute, we need the families that have gone through so much that are still living with this weird fear because nothing was resolved that they need that resolution.

[103] It's just the whole, the whole story I'm like kind of obsessed with and gives me the creeps.

[104] And I think for you and I, it being in California and Northern for you and Southern for me and these, in our neighborhoods that we're from.

[105] Yeah.

[106] And kind of, I think what's so freaky is that he he went to these planned communities that were uh you know family communities and just terrorize them like houses next almost next door houses yes attacking and raping women inside of them it's just the whole story is a nightmare and the fact that hasn't been planning yeah like the that it wasn't and the he's weird there's something wrong with him yes like not just obviously a rapist there's something wrong with him but the stuff that he takes eating uh and hanging out and he's like a he's got some there's you can tell there's some narrative in his head and what's okay and also can we just talk for one second about how what are the odds that you have a story in a and a case that's this insane and compelling in years long and then one of the lead investigators is just a simply beautiful tv ready detective doctor or detective holes every time he spoke I was like your teeth are perfectly white oh my god he looked like robocop yes he look he know he looked like is um hunter remember that old 80s tv show hunter oh no where the guy they literally had the FCC came and said you have to wear underwear what you never heard about that no hunter um my mom must have kept it from me uh she was like go to bed mom he's going to watch hunter well you know what i keep doing in my obsessiveness is like who okay who did my mom date at that time because he was in irvine in 1986 so i was six years old so i'm like who did my mom date anyone at that time is that who the murderer is like it's so scary so scary um but yeah it's it's it's just like it's it blows my mind it's it has to get solved i know and it's going to be really exciting when it does but also bittersweet from michelle and like listening to the book every time they say or every time in the book it says like the next chapter is accumulated from her notes.

[107] Yeah.

[108] It just hurts me in the heart every time I see that or hear that.

[109] Yeah.

[110] Because it's just and then the obsession and I kind of, it reminded me a lot of that obsession that I used to have at a desk job when I would just sit and read blogs like that and stories like that, which weren't written in that way then they were kind of just like stories you had to kind of put together based on, you know, Reddit and stuff like that.

[111] Yeah, because her writing.

[112] is so it's true crime written gorgeously.

[113] Yeah.

[114] So like when I used to read that blog, you would just read these stories and like, I have all these stories stuck in my head not because, oh, it's, uh, it's because she wrote it almost first person in this way.

[115] Like she got so into what was happening in this person's life and then they disappeared.

[116] And it's just, she really got what it's like to be obsessed with true, to be a person who can't sleep and just is obsessed with true crime.

[117] Yeah.

[118] obsessed with a case or cases or anything it definitely feels like what people have said to us which is like you've made it you made me not seem like feel like a weirdo because of it it feels like i'm not a creep for liking for being this obsessed with true crime to the point where i can't sleep at night well because it's these questions that it's the worst case scenario something happening and then just unanswered questions so it's what what are the events leading up to this how did it happen why did it happen like those are things that it's better than a tv show or something like that it's like it re and i don't mean better it's more interesting and engaging and kind of like this is a fellow human being that just disappeared off the face of the earth and sorry and it's like and this and that but the way she makes the way she tells the story of the victim and tells you who they are you know before what happens to them happens yeah is it gives it such a more vivid and such a fuller picture a picture of how horrible it was to be to live in that time to be a victim to live in that neighborhood at the time yeah to be scared I had no clue I couldn't picture it until she kind of explained it right yeah she like that book starts off with like her like how it's first started for her.

[119] And it was because there was a murder in her town.

[120] It's fascinating.

[121] Yeah, that murder was fucked up to.

[122] Oh my God.

[123] I can't like to start reading it again, which I'm going to.

[124] Yeah, it's very, it's just a, it's bittersweet.

[125] It's, but it's also cool that it's out there.

[126] And it's going to be very, very interesting to see.

[127] And that her name will forever be, you know, when they do catch this guy, her name will, because they're going to.

[128] There's no way it's not going to happen.

[129] But her name will always be connected to this case that obsessed her.

[130] Yes.

[131] Which is.

[132] And what I also think is cool and that special is how they really featured the what were they calling them the like um the basically the people that were trying to solve it online oh citizen sleuths citizen armchair sleuths yeah i think i said it which we laughed every time they said it yeah but it sounds so stupid it's true i get it and when you like on the surface but those guys put taking i mean digging into this research oh my talk about like yeah Like, doing the hardest work of all, which is just like, we went through records.

[133] This is the company that was building houses at this time.

[134] Like, they're taking the police evidence and matching it to records and then going, like, that, it's amazing.

[135] And I think all of that combined, the fact that there isn't some fucking woman coming forward being like, yeah, so my stepbrother was a creep back then.

[136] And you might want to look into him.

[137] Right.

[138] lived in Sacramento, our grandma lived in fucking Golita, and you need to look into him.

[139] Like, how is that not happened yet?

[140] I don't know.

[141] Or maybe it's people who don't either, some, I don't know.

[142] It makes me think of like, someone has a hunch that it's their whatever.

[143] But they don't, maybe they don't want to face it or they don't want it to be real.

[144] Well, I said to Vince, when we were talking about this kind of thing, I was like, and then we were talking about how Ted Kaczynski's brother is the one who fucking was like, you need to look into my brother and how hard that must have been.

[145] And I was like, would you turn in your brother if you found out something was going on?

[146] He was like, absolutely I would in a fucking heartbeat.

[147] Like, it's people like us that were like, yes.

[148] I'd be so stoked to be like, look at Asher, he fucking did it.

[149] Not because I wanted my brother to be a murderer, but because it's like, you can't do that.

[150] It's not okay.

[151] But then I was like, well, what if you thought suspected something about me?

[152] And he was like, oh, well, we'd have to have a long talk.

[153] Like, I don't know what that means.

[154] You get one final breakfast.

[155] Right.

[156] We talk it over for breakfast.

[157] I was like her to say you get one murder.

[158] That's it.

[159] You know, and in this relationship, I'll give you one freebie.

[160] It's the murder hall pass.

[161] No, yeah, anyway, it's just kind of, it's just so strange, and it's all kind of coming to the fore now.

[162] But it's also good.

[163] On a happy note.

[164] This is an email that Stephen found for us that just pulled for us.

[165] Karen, Georgia, Stephen and assorted pets.

[166] First off, your Columbus, Ohio show is great.

[167] I just wanted to let you know that my husband greatly appreciated your huge shout out for his website, www .pumpkin's show .com.

[168] I think your mention just increased the show's foot traffic for this year.

[169] Oh, my God.

[170] The Colombinos are expecting, the Colombino are expecting to have a meetup at the show.

[171] Oh, my God, the pumpkin show?

[172] Yes.

[173] I love it.

[174] That is, oh, okay.

[175] My husband is a native circle, native of.

[176] circleville and he's been involved with the pumpkin show since the late 90s and has done their website since then he even purchased a domain name holy shit when no one even knew what a domain name was he is also the photographer of the giant pumpkins in your slide and most of the pictures on the site we were cracking up the whole time as circleville is serious about their pumpkins it is the oldest and largest show of its kind in the country and maybe the world thanks again for the shout out on the show safe travels around the globe ladies oh my god like going to the pumpkin show yeah right maybe the me and Kevin that's the webmaster for pump www .w .w .pumpkin show .com oh my god that's amazing so funny I love the reach is just far reaching I mean here's a thing in our experiences when you go onto a website it's a high quality website you you give credit because that credit is due how many websites are there out there it was just sitting out there excellent unknown waiting to be grabbed waiting to be seen and talked about yeah and you know we did it and you did it we did it we all did it we did it we did it we did it now we start the podcast that's all about life that we wanted to start originally remember when we talked about it yeah about pumpkins and life it's basically a podcast where we um squad board figure out a way to sue Kevin for or www .pumpkinshow .com and we take ownership.

[177] Called squad gourds.

[178] We could get, if we could get a hacker to please hack the pumpkin show website.

[179] I'm kidding.

[180] Don't do it.

[181] Hacker.

[182] This hacker's like, her hands are like over the keyboard about to be like, do do do whatever the fuck they do on movies.

[183] She's got, yeah, she's got fingers of those gloves.

[184] And she's numbers are going, numbers, numbers, numbers in her head.

[185] She's drinking coffee and doing lines.

[186] Yeah.

[187] Just like hacking.

[188] And then we're like, wait.

[189] Melissa, hold it.

[190] Don't do that.

[191] What's her hacker name?

[192] It's Melissa 8.

[193] Melissa 8, hack your, you are life.

[194] It's dark web Melissa.

[195] Dark web, Lissa.

[196] Lissa in the dark.

[197] Yep.

[198] Liza with a Z. And that's it.

[199] That whole thing was her name.

[200] What we just.

[201] Dot .net.

[202] Yeah.

[203] What are hackers really like?

[204] Let us know if you're a hacker.

[205] They're the people who when you're at the coffee shop and they have a full computer there and they're using eight outlets.

[206] Those are them.

[207] They're not cool.

[208] It's always hackers always work in cafes.

[209] Wait, I don't want to insult any hackers though because I wouldn't.

[210] All the lights go off right now.

[211] Terrible idea.

[212] Didn't you watch Mr. Robot or whatever the fuck that shows felt?

[213] I did.

[214] It was good.

[215] That's so good.

[216] It's really good.

[217] Hackers, we love you.

[218] Unite.

[219] We have a tribute to you.

[220] They all look like Angelina Jolie in the movie.

[221] That's right.

[222] Hackers.

[223] Was it called hackers?

[224] The show hackers.

[225] The show?

[226] Movie hackers.

[227] No, no, no. I know what the movie you're talking about.

[228] It's where Johnny Lee Miller, the British actor and Angelina Jolie.

[229] Was Ryan Felipe in that?

[230] I don't know.

[231] Picture?

[232] I think Stephen's going to tell us.

[233] Okay.

[234] I think it's called something like the motherboard.

[235] No, that's not correct.

[236] Well, I do know what movie.

[237] you're thinking of antitrust with Ryan Felipe.

[238] Okay.

[239] Did I just mash up to hacker movies?

[240] Okay.

[241] Classic mashup.

[242] Was he a hacker in that?

[243] He was like it was like Bill Gates was played by not Tim Robbins.

[244] Chris Cooper?

[245] I get what his name is, but he like was like a Bill Gates type and he was We need a Stephen to look up equally.

[246] York for our Stephen.

[247] That's right.

[248] He was like it was like a yeah, it was like a Bill Gates guy who was like stealing like young people's technology and Ryan Felipe was, like, uncovering the conspiracy.

[249] What's the other one?

[250] The MTV website.

[251] Oh, yeah.

[252] And this Hackers was from, was Angelina Jolie.

[253] It was released in 95.

[254] It was called Hackers.

[255] They just went for the lowest common denoum.

[256] Johnny Lee Miller.

[257] Did it have a Z in it?

[258] No, unfortunately.

[259] Oh.

[260] That's the remake.

[261] Now, what was the movie, The Motherboard that I'm talking about?

[262] Was there a movie called The Motherboard?

[263] A B movie in the 60s.

[264] about women with children who get tied to boards um or just like the mom is bored and they like okay whatever the motherboard or it could be a female CEO with children the motherboard she is in charge she makes all the decision you know and i'm going to try parenting's not working i'm going to try acting like a computer i'm going to i'm going to make a computer version of me the mom yes as a stand in it looks exactly like her but it's she's controlling it yeah from her from from santropot tripot from her listen from what's this called why did I pick a name I can't say I don't know Santropay Trento pay now if you were 10 years older from Bora Bora Bora if you were 10 years older you would know that because it's from the Bandesolae commercial The theme song Bandesole back when we didn't know anything about SPF or skin cancer Banda Salae was essentially wesson oil in a beautiful bottle and in the summer you would just put it smelled so good it's just baby oil to lay in the sun in yes and give yourself cancer and there was a little bit of orange dye in it so that you kind of not on you would seem tan just by putting it on and the themes or the the the jingle was bend is so lay for the centropay tan oh my god a lady a white lady who was the brownest she could possibly be in a tight, wet bun.

[265] Maciated, like a, like super -coaxed.

[266] String bikini.

[267] String bikini, inverted stomach.

[268] Like 80s skinny.

[269] Yeah.

[270] With like pearls or whatever, but next to a pool, but so oiled that she reflected the sun back on to other people around the pool.

[271] It was so high glamour.

[272] Oh, my God.

[273] That's all I wanted to do is have a Santropay tan when I was 10.

[274] I mean, I still do.

[275] I'm going to be honest.

[276] Bend is so late.

[277] Have you seen that commercial, Stephen?

[278] Nobody's seen it.

[279] I'm so, I'm like the last fucking white rhino.

[280] I'm so old.

[281] And I only, only me and a handful of people know my references.

[282] That reminds me, you're going to, Vince and I just remember that you're going to be, uh, birthday.

[283] Ninety -two.

[284] You're going to be birthing when we're in Europe, right?

[285] In, when we're in Oslo.

[286] Oh, cool.

[287] It's my birthday.

[288] Oh, let's go find, like, a reindeer.

[289] restaurant and fucking eat reindeer for your birthday okay right let's eat a live ring let's catch and kill right I yeah gorgeous animals let's do it do you remember in um a chef's table I think it's season one maybe season two there's the guy who who his restaurant is Viking food no did you not watch that series I don't think I did I think I meant to I thought you would I thought you I just automatically assumed you would think that you know I get it He gives you a dish and he lights like peat moss on fire and then cooks like three herring.

[290] Or like it's like a bowl, it's like a bog water.

[291] Yes.

[292] And it's like, have you seen the bodies in the bog?

[293] Yeah.

[294] You mean the ones that have always been there?

[295] The bog bodies.

[296] Yeah.

[297] The ones that are kind of orange.

[298] Yeah.

[299] They have hair and faces.

[300] And nails.

[301] Yo yeah.

[302] Look that up, you guys.

[303] That's a big bog hole to get into.

[304] Get into that bog hole.

[305] So you want to go to that restaurant?

[306] Do you want to go get?

[307] Viking food?

[308] Yes, but I think we'd have to drive like four hours north of Oslo or wherever we are.

[309] I'm not even sure it's in Norway, Vince, which is the worst part.

[310] That's for Vince to find out.

[311] That's for our tour manager.

[312] Stephen, will you look really quick just so I'm not a total fool in case if this is like in a very obvious other like Nordic country?

[313] I'm going to get really depressed.

[314] But I think it is Norway.

[315] Well, you don't know the name of the restaurant.

[316] You're just asking him to look up what?

[317] Yeah, I'm just asking him to confirm me and just efferm me as a person.

[318] I hear you, Karen.

[319] I don't know how you'd look at him.

[320] I hear what you're saying.

[321] I hear that you're saying hackers.

[322] Yeah.

[323] And I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

[324] It's the motherboard.

[325] Okay.

[326] Okay, can I just say this?

[327] We haven't really talked about the alienist recently.

[328] Oh, yeah.

[329] Are you watching?

[330] Yes.

[331] Loving it.

[332] machine isn't tevoing it is it not because it's not a tvo one it's a fucking direct tv but two in an addition it starts at six it didn't record it is it good it's so good i watch every episode twice okay oh my gosh because i love the fucking um art direction yeah i want to go back in time please i just want to see what it would really look like to walk down the street in like lower east side here's what i think you would notice not what it looks like but the smell.

[333] You got to think about that, man. It stunk so bad.

[334] Everybody stunk and it stunk.

[335] But still, I just, the visual of it.

[336] I mean, did they even have toilet paper back then?

[337] No, they used papyrus.

[338] Right?

[339] Uh -huh.

[340] From the Bible.

[341] Swinging back around.

[342] The restaurant was Fa Viken and it's in Sweden.

[343] So, but you are going to Sweden.

[344] Oh, we are?

[345] Yeah.

[346] Oh, great.

[347] Yeah.

[348] You'll be in Stockholm, so it doesn't say what city.

[349] I bet it's only seven hours outside of Stockholm.

[350] We're going on a McDonald's for your birthday.

[351] Look, you know.

[352] You're getting real complicated.

[353] I'm going to be like, I don't know.

[354] It's just like the McDonald's here is better.

[355] Yeah.

[356] It feels real.

[357] It's like I can taste the clogs.

[358] But I bet you there's some fancy restaurant that's there.

[359] Yeah.

[360] Shit.

[361] Sorry, guys.

[362] No, whatever.

[363] I was actually, you know who knows a lot about.

[364] Norway Norway jeans is our accountant really?

[365] Yeah that's weird she was talking all about if we go she was so excited that we're going to Europe oh my god so excited that we're going to Amsterdam yeah she started naming all these places we need to go in Amsterdam and things we need to do I'm never that one one of the things she said is so worth it you can get on a bus and go to tulip farms Big huge tulip farms and just walk around and see Because they're going to be in bloom While we're there Oh my God I love tulip so much I love them We're going to say I'm in the ground We're going to say them growing In the ground Big big spots of purple tulips Um God guys God and You know All his friends All his friends are there And they're happy for you and they're ready for you.

[366] It's going to be the best feeling.

[367] It's going to be the best.

[368] It's going to be a tulip farm.

[369] We're going to meet God in Amsterdam and go to a tool farm with him.

[370] All the fucking religious people just unsubscribed.

[371] Tulip lovers.

[372] Right?

[373] Unsubscribe.

[374] What?

[375] They should be on our side.

[376] I don't know why there's so mad at us in this story.

[377] We're kissing their fucking asses right now.

[378] We're fucking blowing them up right now.

[379] We're like, oh, do you like tulips?

[380] We like what you like.

[381] Yeah.

[382] Tulip murderinos are like.

[383] Tulipinos are like.

[384] Jerry Tulipino.

[385] There you go.

[386] Oh, Jesus Christ.

[387] Guys, a full apologies.

[388] All of apologies.

[389] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[390] Absolutely.

[391] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[392] Exactly.

[393] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[394] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[395] That's right.

[396] Shopify is the same.

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[403] Connect with customers in line.

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[405] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[406] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[407] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[408] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[409] Goodbye.

[410] Hey, this is exciting.

[411] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[412] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[413] But there's a mystery hang.

[414] over everyone, who killed Saz?

[415] And were they really after Charles?

[416] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[417] This season, murder hits close to home.

[418] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[419] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[420] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[421] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[422] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy, Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[423] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[424] Goodbye.

[425] Who goes first this week?

[426] Karen.

[427] Kilgariff.

[428] All right.

[429] None other than Karen Kilgarov.

[430] Now, from Columbus?

[431] Yeah, yeah.

[432] No, I'm from Northern California now.

[433] So, when I sat down to do my murder this week, tonight four hours ago I was like here's what I did so and we talked about this two weeks ago how somebody accidentally ordered they meant to order themselves packets of the true crime trading cards and they ended up ordering boxes so they gave us each one yeah I was sitting there and I have this really weird habit of like when I'm like what I was to call processing my mail quote unquote.

[434] I just put things in piles on my counter and then spend days figuring out where they need to go in my house.

[435] And that true crime, the box of true crime cards was sitting on my counter unopened.

[436] And I kept moving it around.

[437] Like people would come over.

[438] Where is it going to live?

[439] Right.

[440] Well, I decided it doesn't fucking need to live.

[441] I'm opening that box and I'm opening every packet.

[442] What the fuck.

[443] Yeah.

[444] Because it's my box.

[445] And why am I going to like save it like some Star Wars nerd, sorry and then unsubscribe of subscribe Stephen gets up storms out throws himself over the railing of the podcast loft um but i was like why am i saving this these this is my thing that i like i want to look at i love it go crazy so i opened all of them the problem was i got halfway through and realized these are always going there's only like save five sets right and i'm just repeating them so you have yeah i see what you're saying but my worry was I would think that was true and then miss a set.

[446] So then I just opened every single one.

[447] This just says so much about how different you and I are because I'm like, that must be so free.

[448] Because I can't open mine because it's like, no, you'll ruin it.

[449] You're going to ruin it, Georgia.

[450] Don't ruin everything.

[451] But how do you ruin the thing that's supposed to be for you?

[452] No, it doesn't matter 100%.

[453] That's what I realized.

[454] Because you know that thing, I had my friends over for game night, which is my it was so fun and it was the first time I had people over in a really long time and it was I kind of like felt like I had to because it already gotten hosted a couple of other times so I was like waiting on you yes basically put up or shut up oh so when I was cleaning my house I was like there's so much clutter and bullshit in this house that I don't need or want yeah but I have a weird connect like I feel like I'm not allowed to throw it away yeah I get so I tried to start doing that thing of like does it bring you joy put it in your hand for three seconds and then throw away anything you don't need or truly want and when I looked at that box of things I'm like I want to know what every card is sure so why don't I just find out do it I love it so now I have a stack this big oh my god I've sussed through we've done this already I've never heard of this I've heard of this okay and now I have my new stack which is the best organized I love it that has nothing to do with this story I'm about to tell you oh wow because I was just sitting there going like think of like one of the original a moment it doesn't have to be a whole story story.

[455] And I thought about this event.

[456] So I looked it up.

[457] I'm here to tell you.

[458] Oh, I'm so excited.

[459] All about.

[460] And tell me if you remember this.

[461] Oh, my God.

[462] Oh, my God.

[463] From 2003, the Van Nuys court house shooting.

[464] No, I don't remember it.

[465] Oh, girl.

[466] Oh, honey.

[467] Okay.

[468] So when grandma was in her early 20s, this was before the internet existed, comics used to, we used to pass around videotapes with what essentially were today YouTube videos on them.

[469] So there was, and this is things comics did all the time.

[470] So it'd be like, we're all going to go over to so -and -so's house and watch so -and -so's tapes.

[471] Patton was the one, Patten or Blankapatch, usually are the ones that had them.

[472] And they were just compilations of things you couldn't believe you were watching.

[473] So it would be like, the very first one I saw had the farting preacher on it.

[474] So it's that guy that they dubbed over farting.

[475] You know that, you've seen that video.

[476] Everyone's seen it.

[477] Then there was, there was like CNN.

[478] bloopers when CNN first started they used to fuck up on tape all the time and there was people that would just record it and they would make like blooper reels of CNN stuff of like you know that guy Bernard Shaw was the original CNN anchor he'd be like asleep on camera it was awesome there's amazing stuff then there was really awful things like there was a orchestra that was playing one time that the entire stage collapsed while the orchestra was playing and that was on there just random awful crazy shit cool so this is one of those things that went around this much later this is like how every like everything is terrible came about or it's like totally before that was a thing exactly what you did is you made compilations of fucking weird shit yeah somebody would be at home and they'd be like what is this children's show where a weird adult is teaching yoga I better record this because I don't understand what's happening I love it yeah so this is this was a clip that would have been on one of those videos And it's the craziest thing I've ever seen.

[479] So I'll just tell you, it happened on Halloween, October 30th, 2003.

[480] Okay.

[481] Now, if you're from the Southland, you know that Van Nuys is one of the most gorgeous cities you could visit.

[482] Oh, God.

[483] So she's kidding.

[484] It's just concrete.

[485] It's concrete and discount furniture stores.

[486] Oh, totally.

[487] That's exactly what it is.

[488] But out in the middle of all that, there is a. what eight story the van ice courthouse and the van ice courthouse is where you go when you fucked up in your car which everybody does not like i have been there because i fucked up in my car would you do i don't remember i must have i don't know a moving violation probably yes so i had to go there i'm still mad about this i had a friend who on fucking ventura which is down here for anybody that's not from down here.

[489] Ventura is the big basically a four -lane highway that's a street.

[490] It's in a Tom Petty song even.

[491] Yeah.

[492] Ventura Boulevard.

[493] Ventura Boulevard.

[494] It goes four miles through it basically bisects or runs up the middle of the San Fernando Valley.

[495] Yeah.

[496] And you can get on it in like Hollywood where the Hollywood Bowl is essentially and you can drive down for so long.

[497] I mean I don't even know how far it goes.

[498] um so we were on ventura at i think it was like cold water in ventura and it was like 10 o 'clock at night and we were going to go to a party and my friend had just gotten a like a very fancy sports car and from a metered parking spot she flipped a U -turn on Ventura crossing four lanes of traffic to do this U -turn and we immediately got pulled over and i hadn't even touched my seatbelt yet oh no So when we got pulled over, these two traffic or these two policemen, I don't know what kind they were, but they were both young and they were hopped up in a way that scared the living shit out of me. And I was like, imagine if we were a car full of black teenage boys.

[499] This would be beyond.

[500] And they were so aggressive for no reason.

[501] Oh, my God.

[502] And they were like, I need to, you're, he was like, this guy was tapping on the, my window.

[503] Matt at you.

[504] And it's not even up.

[505] Roll down the window.

[506] let me see your ID like comment at us and I kept going like I'm the passenger I didn't I'm not controlling the car he's like your seatbelt's not on I go we just pulled out of the parking spot of course I was sassing it up I got a fucking 320 ticket for not having it my seatbelt oh no or some insane and this was when I lived in a studio apartment yeah I mean it was dark times I could not afford it and not only did I have to pay this really high number I had to appear in court for this moving violation.

[507] So I wanted to murder my friend.

[508] Yeah.

[509] Say her name.

[510] Work through it now.

[511] Yeah.

[512] So you have to go to the Van Nuys courthouse.

[513] I was so nervous to be in a courtroom.

[514] I was like dying.

[515] Well, you have to sit there for the 40 other cases before yours.

[516] So it was just like one teenage boy after another that was.

[517] Sad fucking depressing shit.

[518] So depressing.

[519] Most of the teenage boys, it was for their radios, car stereos were up too loud.

[520] Shut up.

[521] Yes.

[522] They were all like, the judge would be like, young man, this is your fifth violation.

[523] You can't drive with your stereo up this loud.

[524] There was like, that happened like 15 times.

[525] I mean, figure it out, Kevin.

[526] Like, just turn it down a fucking decibel.

[527] Turn it down.

[528] I understand you're trying to make your friends think that you're badass.

[529] And everyone around who you want them to not fuck with you because you're scared.

[530] Yes, we're all scared.

[531] Because you're scared.

[532] They'll see the real you, Kevin.

[533] But let me tell you, as a fucking 37 year old who used to turn shit up you can't hear anything when you're an adult anymore the damage that i have done to my hearing oh yeah is amazing half my friends are can't fucking hear anything because we all used to go to shows and shit like you just don't it's not there's not it's not be boring it's not as cool as you think anyway so by the time i got up there i basically the judge ended up reducing the dollar amount because at one point i just went he was he was he was questioning me like I was the driver and I finally went I was the passenger and then he went really and then he was just like a hundred and twenty dollars or something like cut it down thank god but the entire experience was nerve jangling and sure infuriating so now I've set the scene van eyes courthouse very strange large building kind of ominous yeah right I'm there I'm there I'm there with you there's a discount furniture across the street there's a discount for across the other street there's a donut shop in the strip mall right there yeah it's probably got great donuts and that's the only thing in that strip mall everything else is closed there's also a nail salon oh yeah there's there's two nail salons next to each other yes but otherwise there's nothing there's nothing and because it's van eyes it's always 91 degrees oh my god oh 91 and like and like but in a hot way yes a stifling way a stifling yet dry way like put and there's not one fucking tree in the entire city funny that you should say that why almost as if funny cue it's perfect setup okay yeah there's no shade except for the height of this building right this cement building it's dark times so and so at this time because it was October 31st 2003 um normally it's you're so far out there the only people that would be at this courthouse are people that have business there it's not there's uh you wouldn't go there for any other reason you're not there's no fun to be had there's not a great restaurant in the base and about in the basement.

[534] Nothing good.

[535] Oh, it's a vintage cafeteria.

[536] You know, like all the other courthouses, how they have nice things.

[537] God, there's some great food at the L .A. County Courthouse down.

[538] However, people do go to Pasadena Courthouse because it's gorgeous.

[539] Is that true?

[540] It's the one, it's the one, they use it as the courthouse in Pawnee in Parks and Recreation.

[541] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[542] Right?

[543] Yeah, I'm going to say yes.

[544] I'm going to agree with myself.

[545] I'm agreeing to.

[546] Anyway, so, yeah.

[547] It's like, I want to say vintage.

[548] but it's like pretty architecture yes it's gorgeous so yeah that's not happening here at the van ice the van ice courthouse they were like we want to make it tall and upsetting looking um and it was probably they did that in 1972 okay at the time on this day remember when robert blake had to go to on trial for attempting to kill or the attempted murder or no sorry the murder of um his wife bonnie lee Bakely.

[549] So this is an amazing overlap that I didn't realize until I started researching this.

[550] So for those of you who don't know, Robert Blake was an actor.

[551] He was a child actor.

[552] He was Beretta.

[553] He was kind of like the theme was almost like a serious Ted Danson of the 70s.

[554] Nothing like Ted Dantin in anyway.

[555] Almost the opposite really.

[556] But this is the first television person I could think of.

[557] So he...

[558] Yeah, he was like Magnum P .I. But, like, serious.

[559] True, yes.

[560] Yeah.

[561] Didn't do a lot of comedy, though.

[562] Yeah.

[563] I feel like Ted has better range.

[564] Yeah.

[565] So he and his wife were eating dinner at a very famous old Italian restaurant called Vitellos, which is on Tahanga, I think.

[566] And Vitellos has clearly been there since the 50s.

[567] Right.

[568] And they left the restaurant.

[569] And then he said, wait here.

[570] I'm going to go back into the restaurant.

[571] I forgot my gun.

[572] and he and Robert Blake went back into the restaurant to get his gun and while he was in there he forgot his gun he forgot his gun in the Italian restaurant why did he have his gun I mean because that's where the gun would be when his wife is being shot in the head out in the parking lot right he's not involved and his gun is in the restaurant so that was the suspicion and that's why he ended up going on trial and the trial and a bunch of shit took place at the Van Nuys courthouse which is amazing and I didn't know that because they were there there was pretrial hearings going on because there was um there was a conspiracy charge between robert blake um saying robert blake and his bodyguard uh who's named earl shit i can't find it do they think he actually pulled the trigger no they think that the conspiracy was that he went in to get his gun really publicly well his bodyguard earl was outside shooting Bonnie.

[573] Yeah.

[574] So they think that he shot Bonnie.

[575] The security guard.

[576] Right.

[577] The bodyguard.

[578] Yes.

[579] Okay.

[580] Got it.

[581] Yes.

[582] So they were at the courthouse that day to have the pretrial hearing about this conspiracy charge.

[583] It eventually got dropped and they ended up saying they didn't actually really have a lot of direct evidence or real material evidence.

[584] Anyhow, we'll do that story some other time.

[585] Okay.

[586] But because that pretrial hearing was taking place at the ice courthouse that day there were all these news cameras set up from all over the place internationally set up so that when robert blake walked out they would have the shot of him leaving the courthouse yeah whatever the verdict was for that pretrial hearing they hadn't even gone into the full murder trial yet okay at the same time it was 10 a .m. that same morning and so all these cameras are set up And meanwhile, 53 -year -old Wills and Probate Attorney Gerald E. Curry had just appeared in court himself as a probate attorney because he was representing a client who was the trustee of a special needs trust for a 64 -year -old man named William Stryer.

[587] and the trustee had said that Stryer had been threatening her life and so she wanted out of this trust.

[588] Stryer had been injured in a car accident and he had won settlement money for that injury, but the money was taken and put into this trust because, and what I'm gathering, but I don't know for a fact, but what it seems like is that he was unstable and couldn't.

[589] Because of the accident?

[590] no it doesn't seem like it um that there's some for some reason he couldn't manage that money by himself it was put into a trust and then this woman was placed in charge of the trust so she had no connection like family or otherwise with this guy she's like i'm not sure okay because these are the details yeah that was the case that gerald curry was um in charge of and she was he was her lawyer okay um the this trustees okay and basically the trustee was like this guy is threatening my life he he keeps saying if i don't give him the money he's going to kill me i don't want to be involved in this anymore oh my god so that's what why they were there at the courthouse for the hearing about that that trustee's position oh my god so he walks outside i've seen that okay now i know you know what i'm talking about now because you said to stephen earlier keep this video yes i've fucking seen this video now this video this kind of made me real like happy in a weird way wait maybe i'm thinking of the wrong video.

[591] No, no, I think you're thinking of the right video.

[592] It's so incredible.

[593] It's insane.

[594] And the idea that this happened on the day that all these cameras were already set up is beyond bizarre.

[595] Okay.

[596] Okay.

[597] So, so Gerald Curry, the attorney, walks outside, just got that thing taken care of.

[598] It's 10 a .m. I'm going to go get a coffee, blah, blah, blah.

[599] The attorney for the trustee is like, yeah, he just wrapped up.

[600] I'm going to go to that amazing cafe outside of the Van Nuys courthouse.

[601] Get me. And maybe go get my nails done.

[602] Right.

[603] He's standing there in the, so it's like the court, the courthouse is there and then there's this kind of long rectangular courtyard.

[604] And that's where all the cameras are set up.

[605] And as he's standing up, and it's, um, the courtyard has, uh, bushes and trees and things planted in it.

[606] Oh, okay.

[607] Remember this part?

[608] Uh -huh.

[609] So as he's standing there, just stepped out of the courthouse.

[610] Um, a stranger walks up to him.

[611] that he's never seen before and says is your name Gerald Curry.

[612] Now what is our answer if a stranger walks up and says, is your name Georgia Hartstark?

[613] No. No, it's not.

[614] Nope.

[615] I don't know that name.

[616] What would your intentions be if I was Georgia Hartstark?

[617] What can I pass a message along to Georgia Hard Star?

[618] But I know her.

[619] I've heard of her, but it's not, it's not me. But if you want to never fucking cop to shit if a stranger is asking you questions.

[620] Why do you ask would be the response?

[621] Why do you ask?

[622] Why do you ask?

[623] What's going on?

[624] Or even this.

[625] Excuse me, goodbye and you get the fuck away.

[626] But I'm sure that Gerald Curry was just like, I'm at a fucking courthouse.

[627] Everything's okay.

[628] Yeah, yeah.

[629] So he says, yes, I am Gerald Curry.

[630] And this man pulls out a gun and starts shooting.

[631] Shit.

[632] Two shots are fired and all the news cameras are like, what the fuck is going on?

[633] Roll them.

[634] And they start recording.

[635] Holy shit.

[636] Do you want to play that video?

[637] So this is, as it happened, he lived.

[638] He got a high hospital.

[639] She's fucking straight up.

[640] And he says, he didn't know the person.

[641] He didn't even see the gun.

[642] He hears the pops.

[643] He felt blood on his face.

[644] And he realized he was being shot.

[645] So in his mind, he said, I have to be a moving target.

[646] I have to start moving.

[647] So he just starts trying to dodge the guy.

[648] This video, this dude is.

[649] legit like fucking tap dancing to get the fuck away from this bullet and he hides behind what is the thinnest tree in recorded history yeah it's the most upsettingly small tree there's there's nothing to hide behind he's like doing a thing of it's like a cartoon where it's like I'm hiding by this tree yes no I'm not it's this craziest it's beyond meanwhile the whole place in this video and when you go on to see it there's a girl on a pay phone in the background like what the fuck like like 10 feet away yeah like this this is like all the sudden handgun shooter so apparently everyone that was nearby in the courtyard the all the cameramen start rolling the people that were in the courtyard run around the corner so the good news was that at the same time la county sheriff's reserve deputy david cat was off duty as a reserve as a as a sheriff's deputy so he was at the courthouse because he was working in the traffic court.

[650] Oh, my God.

[651] Where I was.

[652] Oh, my God.

[653] He's your friend.

[654] He was there working traffic court, but he's wearing a suit and tie, and he doesn't have his gun on him.

[655] He's totally unarmed.

[656] He only has his badge.

[657] So when the shots start popping off, everybody runs like around this corner and onto the street, and he does too.

[658] Then he hears someone run up to a tow truck driver and say, call 911.

[659] a deputy just got shot and then he hears that and runs back into the courtyard even though he doesn't have a gun and there's kind of nothing he can do he pulls out his badge and he's like i have to go back in like i can't i can't run away from this and goes back in and as he goes back in he the first person that's walking by he says where is the deputy that's got shot and the person who he asks never breaks stride and doesn't turn his head to look at him and goes he's back there and and keeps walking totally calm as day yeah calm as day then a cameraman sees that exchange and starts yelling that's the shooter that's the shooter so basically oh my god david cats walked by the shooter and asked him that question and the guy was like as if nothing had happened walking away from the scene um and so he realizes says that's his one moment and he has to get this guy.

[660] So he turns around, uh, runs and jumps and tackles him, grabs him by the neck, pulls him down.

[661] Basically he said he tried to hit him as hard as he could because he knew that he would have to like, this was his one chance and he knew he had at least one gun on him.

[662] So David Katz tackles him and he, it turned out he did have a second gun.

[663] Oh my God.

[664] He just never got.

[665] He just never used it.

[666] Um, and then once, Once David Katz tackles him, then a bunch of other deputies that come out of the building, they're all on him.

[667] Jesus fucking Christ.

[668] Yeah.

[669] And apparently one witness said that when, so the shooter's name was a man, is a man named William Stryer.

[670] And he was the person who he had been injured in a car accident and he wanted the money from that trust.

[671] What the fuck does he think happens in life in law?

[672] that's our new show coming this fall to ABC what's happening in life and law in it's just nope in life in law in life in law dot dot dot and it's like a mom she's trying she's it's motherboard is the working title that's so I can relate to it yeah yes what the fuck I know it doesn't work like that you're you just proven you shouldn't have any money because you don't understand and because you're going through life if something fucks you up, you just threatened to kill it.

[673] Totally.

[674] That's the reason that they were in court is because he'd already threatened to kill the trustee.

[675] Yeah.

[676] And then it comes out.

[677] He, I never found what the actual ruling was, but I imagine it was not for him.

[678] Sure.

[679] But he knew that Gerald Curry was the lawyer that was the trustee's lawyer.

[680] So it has nothing to do with you and it won't even help you to punish this person because they're, there are two steps.

[681] Oh, two fucking, what do they call it, degrees away from the fucking problem you're having to become from Kevin Bacon.

[682] Yes.

[683] Well, and also, he had already made the bad mistake, which is you're not allowed to threaten people say, give me my money or I'll kill you.

[684] So that you now disqualified yourself from the money, but you want it to be someone else's fault that you don't have that money.

[685] So you've decided that this lawyer is keeping you from the money.

[686] Right.

[687] And apparently a witness said that he heard Stryer say.

[688] when the shooting was done he shot at him six times and strier was hit four of those six times I mean I'm sorry Gerald Curry was hit four of those six times but then once the shooting was over before he calmly walked away a witness that he heard him say that's what you get for stealing my money so he in his fucking mind he thinks that these people are all trying to steal his money yes so at the trial William Stryer appears in court laying on a hospital gurney because of his claiming it's because of his longstanding back injury so he's in in bed in court in bed which is a dream I've had do you ever have that thing where you're in a dream you you like wake up and you're like I'm at school but I'm also in bed yeah like you're the weird one in bed it's not it's not like the naked dream but it's like the you didn't get the memo that we're supposed to be out of bed right now you're supposed to get bed yeah so then you're trying to play it off and just kind of be like yeah i'm not in bed no it's fine i'm just in bed a little bit in public yeah yeah no i've actually had that or like i've had the like waiting starting to wake up and you think there are people there and be like no i'm not in bed i'm not sleeping right that makes you think a couple of my in bed dreams have been in being on people's front lawns in bed where i think it's because when i first moved to l .a it was so weird to me that people lived so close together that and so many people live so close together that that idea of like like we're basically on each other's fucking lawns yeah yeah or in each other's like and I'm just going to sleep here yeah I'm just going to be out here I don't know anyway okay basically his lawyer so the shooter Williams Stryor's lawyers say he needed immediate access to that trust fund because he needed a back operation so badly um but he was being barred by the trustee and that's so upset.

[689] And then he also was on Demerol, which is an incredibly strong pain killer.

[690] Okay.

[691] What I remember of friends being on Demerol.

[692] It's like, like it's like it's bigger.

[693] I think it's like goes into the Oxycontin direction.

[694] Opiate style shit.

[695] I think so.

[696] Okay.

[697] So they were kind of using that.

[698] Um, they, and the judge who was named Judge Rubin, um, noted that Stryer had shot a neighbor four times in 1969.

[699] What?

[700] In 1969, he got into it with a neighbor, shot his neighbor four times, for which he served 90 days and got two years probation.

[701] So this is the way this, this guy dealt with everything in his life.

[702] Yeah.

[703] And the first time around on that, the way that all got pled down, the judge this time around was like, you tried to use that.

[704] I'm on pills.

[705] there's something wrong with me thing before and they fell for it last time it's not happening this time and it's like dude you think we wouldn't have checked that come on yeah exactly you got a bit of a history yeah that's gonna stick with you William Stryer asked the judge if he could address the court and then did he get out of bed to do it no he's still in bed he just like sits up in bed and he's like he's like am he adjusts his pajamas he goes to address the court but he starts to veer off track and he starts to say it's the cameraman's fault that they didn't stop him from shooting at Gerald Curry yes so he starts trying to blame the cameraman who are standing around and that's when the judge was like no no you're not doing this anymore not only do you not get to make this statement to the court now you're not allowed to be in this room you have to go put your bed in the hallway and you have to listen through oh my God you have to listen to the remainder of the proceedings through a speaker so he got sent from bed out of the courtroom.

[706] Go to your bed.

[707] where it's like, take your bed to the...

[708] Just roll that motherfucker out into the hallway.

[709] Oh, my God.

[710] You don't even get to...

[711] We're not even going to look at you anymore.

[712] Because also that...

[713] It's so funny.

[714] My sister was in...

[715] She got hit by a guy who was shit -faced at 8 in the morning.

[716] Oh, God.

[717] Oh, God.

[718] Yeah.

[719] She had really bad back problems.

[720] And this guy pulled shit like that.

[721] He showed up one day in court with his daughter on it, like, carrying his daughter on his hip.

[722] Saying what?

[723] Like, I'm drunk at age.

[724] I didn't have babysitting.

[725] It's like people doing all these plays to get empathy and, and like, to get people on their side.

[726] Yeah.

[727] She won.

[728] That's the goodness.

[729] Judge Rubin was basically all over this shit.

[730] And he was like, the deputy district attorney, um, basically it was like, William Stryer tried to execute Mr. Curry.

[731] Um, he had no remorse.

[732] He never accepted responsibility.

[733] He was still making excuses.

[734] by the time he was in the courtroom.

[735] And blaming it on other people not stopping him.

[736] Yes.

[737] That's bananas.

[738] Yes.

[739] It's insanity.

[740] And also when you see this video, like, because that is something maybe that would go through someone's mind of like, why did they hit, why did they roll record on their video instead of doing something?

[741] Well, but it's somebody with a gun.

[742] Yeah.

[743] I get it.

[744] I get doing both.

[745] Yes.

[746] You know.

[747] Well, also, but who would really, it's a gun.

[748] Yeah, you're not going to run up to this guy and fucking tackle.

[749] him unarmed and even a sheriff's deputy was like no you had to take cover yeah if you don't have any way to fight it yeah it doesn't make a ton of sense to be like no i'm gonna go take care of this right um and they those cameramen who recorded that then also were the ones that were like he's right there like they were all over it anyway that was who that's bullshit anyway but yeah basically william strier was convicted of attempted murder and in 2006 he was sentenced to life in prison plus 25 years and he ended up dying in prison because he was already he was 63 when he did this Gerald Curry went to that sentencing and he told reporters my main concern is my safety and my family safety and so he said he felt satisfied with the fact that the fact that he knew William Schreier was going to prison and he would be in prison because he was so old already for the rest of his life he was like that's all I care about and that's fine unfortunately the shooting left a bullet lodged in the back of his neck and he had a really bad PTSD after it happened Gerald Curry died in 2012 which is very sad David Katz the sheriff's deputy got a medal of valor for going back into that fray and tackling him and he went on to work as a reserve deputy in charge of search and rescue unit for the L .A. Sheriff's Department.

[750] Wow.

[751] And that is the story, the very fascinating and horrifying story of the Van Nuys courthouse shooting.

[752] Dude.

[753] Isn't that nuts?

[754] That's nuts.

[755] And the fact that it's on video is so bananas.

[756] It's so crazy.

[757] It's like a time, yeah, when you didn't see that shit.

[758] No, I remember us, whoever put in the video, I remember David Cross was there.

[759] Like, it was the early 90s, no, it couldn't have been early 90s, but it was like early L .A. time of my life.

[760] And we were standing watching the video.

[761] Like, holy shit.

[762] It was so crazy.

[763] And it was almost like Gerald Curry was defying logic by, yes, it didn't even look like he was getting shot.

[764] It didn't look like he was getting shot at all.

[765] It looked like he was avoiding these shots, but the gunshots just kept coming.

[766] Yeah.

[767] It was horrible.

[768] And like, what a scary situation to be in that this is happening.

[769] And so far you've made it and you're fucking dodging these bullets, but keep going, like, oh, like, what, it's terrifying.

[770] It's so crazy.

[771] I mean, as someone with anxiety, I'm, like, constantly waiting for someone to just start shooting at me whenever I'm in fucking public.

[772] Yeah.

[773] And so to see, so I think what I meant when I said that this made me feel better is to see something that happened to someone and he dodged the, and he was okay.

[774] Right.

[775] So, like, it was like the thing of.

[776] it might happen, but maybe IQ could also be okay.

[777] Yeah, that's, that's, that was crazy.

[778] That's a crazy fun story.

[779] That's awful as well.

[780] Thank you for telling me. Yes.

[781] I totally forgot that I remembered that.

[782] That's from my new segment.

[783] Remember this horrible thing that had a tiny piece of video attached to it?

[784] Hey, remember this?

[785] Yeah.

[786] Are you ready?

[787] All right.

[788] I want to get this right.

[789] Okay.

[790] This is important.

[791] I'm about to tell you about, uh, el, might have a Heatis, a .k .a. The old lady killer.

[792] Oh, shit.

[793] Yeah.

[794] Okay.

[795] Buckle the fuck in.

[796] All right.

[797] Hale up.

[798] Hey, the capital of Mexico, Mexico City is...

[799] Mexico City.

[800] Have you heard...

[801] Yes.

[802] You're so good at geography.

[803] You got it.

[804] Did you know it's the third, the world's third most populous city, according to this Wikipedia that I hope it's up to date.

[805] From 1974.

[806] It's a, uh, okay.

[807] So it's estimated that one million of its residents are over 60 years old.

[808] Whoa.

[809] Yeah.

[810] So in 1998, when brutal murders of elderly women begin to start popping up in Mexico City, the press starts to speculate that there's a serial killer.

[811] And they dubbed the serial killer El Madavaharis.

[812] Mm -hmm.

[813] But police are like, no, no, no. You guys are fucking freaking out.

[814] Calm down.

[815] This is media sensationalism.

[816] It's just that elderly women keep getting killed.

[817] But it's not a serial killer.

[818] Stop trying to link them together.

[819] Calm down.

[820] It's not a serial killer.

[821] But Mexico has no shortage of serial killers.

[822] Gregario Cardinius Hernandez was known as the strangler of Takuba.

[823] And he became a celebrity in Mexico after he was caught murdering four young women and bearing them in his backyard.

[824] This was in the 40s.

[825] Okay.

[826] There was even a fucking porn based on his crimes.

[827] Jesus.

[828] Yes.

[829] So he was like a celebrity.

[830] He was in prison for 30 years, but in 1976, he was pardoned and celebrated as a hero because he had like changed his life.

[831] He'd like fucking play the piano in prison.

[832] Learned to play a fucking piano.

[833] So they were like, no, he's changed.

[834] You know what I mean?

[835] The piano's nice, though.

[836] I mean, no one who plays the piano can be a bad person.

[837] Fucking heart and soul.

[838] Just get a little.

[839] Get a couple rounds of heart and soul going.

[840] Hell yeah.

[841] What if that's all he learned how to play?

[842] It's not that hard.

[843] It's not.

[844] And they're like, he's reformed.

[845] It's like, please stop doing that.

[846] Boop, boop.

[847] Oh, God.

[848] There's also the sisters, Delphina and Maria de Jesus Gonzales, known as La Poconiches.

[849] The Little Poconichies.

[850] Yeah, that sounds about right.

[851] From the 1950s until the 1960s, they're the women, older women, their sisters, they run a large -scale prostitution ring.

[852] Oh.

[853] And they murdered at least 91 people, these two fucking middle -aged women.

[854] What for?

[855] Because they, whenever one of their sex workers that they had kidnapped and forced into sex working wasn't, couldn't do it anymore, they would kill them.

[856] They would kill, if like a John came who had money on him, they would kill, like these chicks were fucking bananas.

[857] as their Guinness World Record called them the most prolific murder partnership.

[858] Oh, wow.

[859] And actually, they both went to prison.

[860] One died there, and the other one served her time and got out, and no one never tracked her down after that.

[861] Are you serious?

[862] So I'm going to need the fucking, this is not media sensationalism.

[863] This might be a serial killer, right?

[864] Yes.

[865] All right.

[866] Can I just say this really quickly as you were telling that story?

[867] I started to think about my favorite, one of my favorite things in the world to observe or listen to is, and it happens a lot in L .A. because there's lots of people who are bilingual are probably raised in like a multi -language households.

[868] Don't you love it when you're standing by two people?

[869] It's for some reason it's always teenage girls in my mind and they're speaking Spanish to each other because I think they're trying to tell like private stuff or secrets.

[870] But then they'll just say interchangeably with.

[871] English.

[872] They'll just blow, they'll say an English word perfectly like almost Valley Girl accent.

[873] Yeah.

[874] So it's like a and a thing that you don't know or understand and then it'll be like the car wash. Aren't I right?

[875] Yes, exactly.

[876] There's phrases in it.

[877] It's like, it's my favorite LA thing.

[878] Yeah.

[879] And I'm also a very bad eavesdropper.

[880] Or a very good eavesdropper.

[881] Or the best or listening to people at car washes all the time.

[882] I wish I could speak fluent in a different language and then that like the idea that you can do that and just flip back and forth like well now like to say something private and I know that this person over here is probably listening so I'm like I'm deeply embarrassed as someone from Southern California born and raised that I don't know Spanish like it it feels like I'm being fucking elitist and rude it's kind of rude it is well it's it's yeah it'd be easy for me to learn right What, my sister and my dad went to the JC and took a Spanish class together.

[883] That's cool.

[884] I know.

[885] I love that.

[886] But I wish I did it too.

[887] And also, I wish I hadn't taken French.

[888] It just served me. I'm sorry.

[889] It's like, I think a couple menus that's helped me. Yeah.

[890] A couple fancy dinners.

[891] And pretty much that's it.

[892] That's about it.

[893] And my fucking sister -in -law is Mexican and El Salvadorian.

[894] So my nephew is part of that as well.

[895] and the fact that, you know, he can't talk to his aunt in one of his fucking languages.

[896] Yeah.

[897] It just makes me feel shitty.

[898] Let's go to a Los Angeles community college.

[899] Done.

[900] Right down there on, like, on Melrose and, like, Western.

[901] Yeah, Vermont.

[902] There's a community college right there.

[903] I went there out of high school.

[904] Did you really?

[905] Yeah.

[906] You didn't take any Spanish?

[907] No. Let's do that.

[908] I would love that.

[909] That would be super fun.

[910] Or can we get sponsored by, what's that?

[911] Rosetta Stone.

[912] Rosetta Stone.

[913] Come on.

[914] let's have it our minds are open yeah you want to learn please teach us okay bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo okay so back to fucking el uh madavaharis okay i feel like you're the you got the you got the accent madavahitas yeah think that's right yeah right i'm ready yeah i think you're ready it's like i know a little yiddish i can fucking turn that into something else you got the ear listen once they say once you have yiddish spanish comes immediately afterwards that's what they say great at Los Angeles Community College that's their motto once you have Yiddish the world is your oyster the world opens up to that's really the baseline it's kind of the it's the Latin yeah yeah but for yelling at your grandkin your granddaughter Georgia and Yiddish is the Latin don't schitz all over my Chesterfield right grandma Why am I sweating on her?

[915] Chesterville's like a furniture, right?

[916] Yeah, it's a couch.

[917] I took what I thought your grandma would say and then added something my grandma used to say it would be like, get off the Chesterfield because she, for some reason, said it's in couch or sofa.

[918] But you know me well enough that I am constantly sweating, which is fucking true about me, to know that I'm not.

[919] Schwarzing is the only Gittish word I have like on hand.

[920] So that was not personal.

[921] Roy Scamater is one of my favorite.

[922] What's that?

[923] It's just bothering, like touching and going through.

[924] My mom would say, don't Roycecomotter the cats Roycecomotter?

[925] Wow.

[926] Don't risk them out of the cats like I'm talking with the cats.

[927] Cats are doing it.

[928] You know it's like leave them alone.

[929] Do not risk them out of the cats.

[930] Yeah.

[931] Okay.

[932] Here's what I learned in Gaelic.

[933] Okay, let's hear it.

[934] Can you give me more whiskey please?

[935] I want to punch someone.

[936] I'm saying it with a really strong accent right now But it's good.

[937] I'm going to repeat that to you later.

[938] Yeah.

[939] I'm going to try it when we're in when we're in Dublin.

[940] Dublin.

[941] I'm going to try to, I'm going to use it.

[942] Use it.

[943] Can you give me more whiskey, please?

[944] Yes.

[945] I have rage issues.

[946] I feel like I want to punch someone.

[947] It'll help me. Yeah.

[948] And then, but I'm still going to punch someone.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Okay.

[951] I'm going to try it.

[952] And then before you get the third word out, they're going to be like, we gotcha.

[953] Don't worry.

[954] Oh, I know what you're talking about.

[955] Ooh, we're going to have fun there.

[956] Okay.

[957] All right.

[958] So, there in the early 2000s, so authorities said that the murders of the old women aren't connected and aren't to work at the serial killer, but there's a fucking clear pattern to the murders.

[959] All the victims are women in their 60s or older, and they're found in their own homes, all of them, either bludgeoned or strangled and afterwards are robbed.

[960] There's never any sign of forced entry, and most of them lived alone.

[961] And so I went online and did a lot of research because there's not a lot of English stories about this stories about this in English.

[962] But I found a website that has unexpectedly every single fucking crime scene photo with the bodies in them.

[963] Oh.

[964] Just one of those like surprise.

[965] And then I start scrolling and it's like all of them.

[966] Whoa.

[967] And it's really hard.

[968] And it's so it's essentially like your abuela.

[969] It's like abuela, abuela.

[970] Every fucking grandma, like Mexican grandma you've ever seen with her, like, house of her, like, with her newspaper from the morning and her shopping and her, you know, she just crosses everywhere.

[971] It's like every Mexican grandmother, it's so horrible.

[972] Like, you think you get to live a life of, like, comfortable dresses with pockets and, like, you know, feeding your grandkids too much sugar.

[973] And it's like, that's the women.

[974] That's who it is.

[975] And it's really fucking sad.

[976] And I had to, after a few scrolls, had to stop doing that.

[977] Stop looking at it.

[978] Yeah, don't.

[979] Yeah, that's the worst.

[980] Yeah.

[981] It was really depressing.

[982] Okay.

[983] So the chief prosecutor in Mexico City profiles the killer.

[984] It's Bernardo Batiz saying that they, that he has a brilliant mind.

[985] He's quite clever and careful.

[986] It was thought that whoever was doing it was taking the time to gain the trust of their intended victims because there's no force.

[987] So one theory is that the person might be posing as a government official, providing them like an opportunity to sign up for welfare programs at the door and they like in the suite of Wales invite them in.

[988] Years drag on bodies pile like there's just many murders of these older women and authorities have all these different theories, but they really don't know what's going on.

[989] They said there might be multiple killers.

[990] they find that one really weird detail is that three of the victims owned a copy of an obscure 18th century painting Jean -Batiste Grazuz's boy in a red waistcoat which turns out to be a red herring and just might be a fucking that abuela love that fucking painting yeah so it's like some it was like the thing that was for sale in the market or whatever that they're like oh that's pretty so it just turns out that like that that's how that's how little they have to go on is they're like what's a connection will they all have this painting oh is that the connection like who sold you know they don't know somebody that hates waistcoats i mean who among us um but bo bo bo bo but okay so just to show how desperate they are uh the killings would start and stop again or stop and start again even i mean the both directions they would go all over the place they would stop you know um no information surface okay The killing of 82 -year -old Carmen Camilla Gonzalez -Miguel on September 28, 2005, she's an upper -class woman, and she's the mother of prominent Mexican criminologist Luis Rafael Marano Gonzalez.

[991] So that finally, police are like, all right, now we'll fucking pay attention to this and let's get this going.

[992] So they start the operation of parks and gardens to like try to find this person so officers patrol the areas where the killer was active um and pamplants are passed out telling uh you know the elderly women what did i say pamphlets wrong pamplins i did that was just like one of my nostrils closing as i said it i didn't pamphlets i thought it was a a spanish word that i just never heard of you know pamphlets they they they want they hand out all the pamphalitos Mm -hmm, hmm.

[993] Even was that a dirty word?

[994] Oh, okay.

[995] Pamphlets.

[996] You've heard of them.

[997] Yes.

[998] You love them.

[999] You love pamphlets.

[1000] I love a nice pamphlets.

[1001] It's one thing about you.

[1002] Oh, my God.

[1003] If it's glossy in color, give it.

[1004] Come on.

[1005] Come on.

[1006] They tell them, telling them to be wary of strangers.

[1007] So sketches are distributed, and they, like, they even pay elderly women to act as bait in parks.

[1008] What?

[1009] Like fucking undercover elderly women hanging out being like, who's going to come murder?

[1010] Maybe murder you.

[1011] And they're like, we'll promise we'll stop them before they can murder you.

[1012] But please tell me they weren't genuinely elderly that they were dressed up.

[1013] Really?

[1014] That's what this said.

[1015] They even paid elderly women to act as bait in park areas.

[1016] Wow.

[1017] I know.

[1018] Well, that's kind of a good living because if nothing happens, you're like, well, thanks for my 30 bucks.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] And they're also like, well, they kill them at home.

[1021] So like, the park is the safest fucking place to be right now.

[1022] They were actually scamming the cops.

[1023] They were just like, yeah, this sounds like a great project.

[1024] No, I bet you'll catch them for sure.

[1025] But you're going to pay me $50.

[1026] I swear I saw someone weird yesterday.

[1027] Maybe today's today.

[1028] And definitely in this park.

[1029] And not at home.

[1030] I need money to buy my waistcoat boy.

[1031] Okay.

[1032] Boop, boop, boop.

[1033] Okay.

[1034] So a witness reported seeing a large, soon after one of the murders, a witness reported seeing a large woman in a red blouse leaving the house.

[1035] home of a murdered woman.

[1036] Oh.

[1037] So police start to speculate that the killer could be wearing female clothing as a ploy, you know, and cross -dressing.

[1038] And so the authorities launched a massive roundup of Mexico City's transvestite population.

[1039] Guess how that goes?

[1040] Badly.

[1041] Badly.

[1042] Guess how the transvestites are treated in Mexico City.

[1043] Horrible.

[1044] Poorly.

[1045] So ultimately, 49 of Mexico City's transvestite sex workers are detained and questioned and fucking hassled.

[1046] They suffer through humiliating investigations before being released when their prints didn't match any collected from the crime scene.

[1047] Two months later, police, they just don't know what the fuck's going on.

[1048] They think maybe that person died.

[1049] So they start checking fucking fingerprints at the morgue.

[1050] Just because they think he committed, they got like a word that he committed suicide.

[1051] They like make this insane bust of the like a claim.

[1052] bust of the person's face.

[1053] See, maybe you can find it, actually.

[1054] Ooh, like, best based on sketches?

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] Oh.

[1057] Of, like, who he is.

[1058] Then in January 2006, the landlord of 82 -year -old Anna Maria dello Reos Alfaro comes home and finds someone fleeing, the landlord finds someone fleeing this woman's home.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] He goes and checks on his tenant, and he finds Anna Maria dead on the floor, and he calls police, gives a detailed description of the attacker, police get to the scene fucking immediately and they are able to track down the person who's fleeing.

[1061] It turns out that El Madavaharis is La Madavaharis.

[1062] That means girl.

[1063] Dun, dun, dun.

[1064] Boom.

[1065] Killers actually, fuck, is a woman.

[1066] Little or lady killer is a fucking woman.

[1067] Whoa.

[1068] Arru.

[1069] Wana Barraza is 48 and she's a single mother of four she had close cropped tight like real short dyed blonde hair mole on her face and she looks exactly like this bust there's like photos online of her standing next to the bus and it's creepy as fuck yeah they nail that the nose is a little off yes she looks like the killer based on witness accounts but she's not a man she's just a masculine woman and they catch her as she's leaving her last victim's house she's carrying a stethoscope, pension formed, and carrying and identify, a card identifying her as a social worker.

[1070] Oh, fuck.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] So her M .O would be that she would knock on the door, smile, introduce herself as a social worker, show her stethoscope.

[1073] And then once she was in the, the fucking abuela, they're like, come on in.

[1074] You know, like, it's like, come in.

[1075] That's, it's a lady doctor here to, like, help you out.

[1076] Help you.

[1077] Once inside, though, there was little conversation.

[1078] she would strangle her victim usually with the stethoscope or some kind of cloth that was already there and or stab her she then ransack the house and when they rate when they raided wana barraza's house they discovered her trophy room where she had arranged newspaper clippings about the murders also had objects stolen from the victims and had a shrine to jesus malverde and santa merte who were i said that right listen i'm jewish don't i can't santa merde it sounds like murd or death saint santa muirte two saint murtae saint murder two folk deities often worship by mexican outlaws oh fuck yeah oh i got the sante part right good job thank you uh like okay here's this gets bummer time uh like many serial killers juana barraza had endured a horrific childhood this one's particularly shitty Really?

[1079] Mm -hmm.

[1080] Well, something had to have happened for a woman to be a legit, straightforward serial killer.

[1081] Not Eileen Warnos.

[1082] Like, you know, my life has gone astray and I'm living on the verge or whatever.

[1083] Shooting a man and stealing his money.

[1084] And then being like, oh, this is a good way to make easy money.

[1085] Like the idea that she was so classical, like straightforward serial killer.

[1086] And, like, she was ransacking their house and stealing shit.

[1087] So you could, the argument could be that.

[1088] She's a sociopath that wants money.

[1089] Right.

[1090] But, but wait.

[1091] Okay.

[1092] All right.

[1093] So she's born in 1957 in, um, Hill, Doggo, a rural area of Mexico.

[1094] Her mother's a fucking crazy alcoholic.

[1095] She's verbally and physically abusive and often trades her daughter to her drinking buddies for alcohol.

[1096] Ugh.

[1097] And there's no way to like fucking not say that.

[1098] So she, when she's 12 years old.

[1099] Juana's mom trades her permanently to her drinking buddy, a 62 -year -old man for three beers.

[1100] Ew.

[1101] Like basically sends her off with this dude.

[1102] This is like Mary Bell.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] This is how Mary, that would happen to Mary Bell when she was little.

[1105] It's just so disgusting and horrifying.

[1106] Dark, dark, dark.

[1107] So Juana later gives birth to a son.

[1108] and she has four children total.

[1109] Although, and this is another trigger for her, her oldest son died from injuries sustained in a mugging.

[1110] He was mugged and he died from that.

[1111] Oh, no. I know.

[1112] So she eventually gets away.

[1113] She's a single mother in Mexico City.

[1114] And she had always been obsessed with Lucha Libre, which is the crazy popular.

[1115] This is the fucking, okay, I just.

[1116] in putting this together are you know if you heard of this yes because the people have told me the very shortened version of this in like um in the VIP lines and it's the most fascinating thing yeah sorry go ahead yeah so she was obsessed with fucking Mexican masked professional wrestling and she as an older woman was like fuck it i'm fucking joining i want to do this and so she calls herself la da la da la della silencio no la dama de salencio no la dama de salencio the lady of the lady of silence uh -huh come on lady of silence she wears a butterfly mask and hot pink spandex and she could bench press over 200 pounds yeah like let's fight yeah so she's really let's fight let's fight she's really in a mexican mass wrestling so again yeah it's fucking crazy yeah wrestle professional wrestling and murder look over on that side of the podcast wall there's wrestling this is the hard stark abril dream case.

[1117] Yeah, that we both are bummed about.

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] So by the time she starts murdering older women, her own mother was already dead, but she is surprisingly, by all accounts, a good mother.

[1120] She lived at home with her two youngest kids, a boy who's 13 and a girl who's 11, supports the family through a mix of domestic work, street vending, and petty theft.

[1121] But she's apparently a good mom and, like, kind to her children, you know, from the it's a glimmer of something positive right so using fingerprint evidence mexico city prosecutors are able to link uh wanna bazaa to at least 10 of the murders attributed like period so the only 10 um and no she says when she gets caught i only killed the one little old lady the one that she was caught for not the others uh don't pin the others on me and they were like what's your motive and she said i got angry that's all she said she's like It's just the one I killed.

[1122] Okay.

[1123] But 10 of them, based on fingerprints, are attributed to her.

[1124] And ultimately, she's connected to as many as 40 killings.

[1125] Whoa.

[1126] So she killed, possibly killed 40 little old ladies.

[1127] It just kept doing it from the late 90s to when she was caught in 2006.

[1128] But the first victim she's directly attributed to that we're 100 % sure if she did is on November 25th, 2002, when she bare -handed, beat and strangled a 64 -year -old woman named Marie de la Luce Gonzalez.

[1129] So she could have killed way more than that.

[1130] At this point, when she goes to trial, she's 50 years old, little old lady killer goes on trial.

[1131] In 2008, the evidence said that she would cruise public places in search of elderly women on their own.

[1132] She'd follow them home.

[1133] She'd gain their trust, access to their home to help with their shopping bags or whatever, or request cleaning, like, can I need a job cleaning your house or whatever, and then, or she would pretend to be a nurse or a social worker offering a free checkup or information about benefits.

[1134] God.

[1135] I know.

[1136] It's fucking dark.

[1137] She's found guilty on 16 charges of murder and aggravated burglary.

[1138] She's sentenced to 759 years in prison.

[1139] Whoa.

[1140] Just a couple.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] She ends up, like, getting married in prison.

[1143] but then divorces, and she seems to be kind of happy there.

[1144] Wow.

[1145] And she's only admitted to the, ever admitted to the last killing.

[1146] And she says the motive was the lingering resentment to her own mother's horrible treatment of her.

[1147] But everyone thinks that she targeted old women as a way to get back at her fucking crazy, awful old alcoholic mother.

[1148] That makes sense.

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] And so got some kind of satisfaction out of killing these fucking poor women.

[1151] Who?

[1152] But there is an element.

[1153] like um and i can't remember what one it is specifically but the not copying to it yeah like going oh i only did that one when it's proven that you've done the other ones where you kind of it's that thing that always happens to us where we're taught when you get into the details of a serial killer's life yeah it changes it because then you're like oh you never had a chance that's so sad or whatever but then yes you did have a chance like that that it was just that terrible combination of like whatever was already wrong with you, bad upbringing or whatever.

[1154] But, you know, 40 old ladies.

[1155] Like, how are you killing an old lady?

[1156] I know.

[1157] I wonder if there's part of you when you don't admit, like there's so many people that don't admit it, even though the facts are clear and it drives me fucking crazy.

[1158] And I just want you to say you did it and cop to it.

[1159] It's easy.

[1160] Do it.

[1161] But I wonder if there's this part, like, with her where it's like, I don't want to admit that I'm, that I have those, that I have that in me. Yes, I can be a good mother.

[1162] And, and I can pursue my passion of fucking Lucia Libre.

[1163] But also, I am someone who's so dysfunctional that I murder old women.

[1164] Like, you don't even want to admit it to yourself.

[1165] Yes, exactly.

[1166] Like, she's, because there's parts of her life.

[1167] If she was a good mother, truly, then she isn't a sociopath, which means then she's doing this thing.

[1168] Or that even, like, she doesn't want to admit that her horrible mother affected her so much that caught, like, that means your mom.

[1169] still part of you yes and you know you want to say i'm over it i fixed it by being a good mother but no you're you're still doing this thing and you're having a reaction that you're not just like your mother for being that way now you're worse than your mother i mean you're worse than her it's so sad and like there's so many i know like the grandma culture is so you know as someone who had a culture that the grandma was a huge part of your life and it's i just can't imagine to have that with the rest of your life that your grandmother was killed in that awful way.

[1170] Horrible.

[1171] It's so sad.

[1172] It just made me think, too, of in Mind Hunter.

[1173] But remember, there was that killer in Sacramento who's doing the exact same thing.

[1174] He was attacking old ladies, like, on their front porch.

[1175] And in that, they're so upset, like, the cops are so upset by the crime that when they try to get there to say, hey, maybe there's this reason or whatever, then they're like, it's just a monster.

[1176] Like, they can't see because.

[1177] it's a thing that's like culturally we've you're no matter what level of asshole you are you're not going to be an asshole to an old lady yeah you know what I mean it's like it takes it means you're beyond a certain point yeah what we need to realize is that there are people who are always going to be way more horrible than we can ever imagine that they're going to be people who who are picking the the most vulnerable people on purpose yeah which is just like yeah that's so crazy yeah wrestling element too.

[1178] I know.

[1179] And it's not even like, it's just like the fucking media in Mexico city in Mexico blew the fuck up and loves this story and went crazy about it.

[1180] And the truth is like she wasn't that big and Lucia Libre.

[1181] She just kind of did it a little bit.

[1182] But she was really into it.

[1183] And there are photos of her and there's like an interview with her at like one of the matches.

[1184] And she seems like a lovely normal woman.

[1185] It's so creepy.

[1186] It's crazy.

[1187] And also women never.

[1188] I mean, percentage is like one percent yeah like even if she maybe only killed those 10 people that a woman fucking killed 10 women yes and not poisoning not the usual way and not with a gun it's like a personal fucking attack of a stranger a stranger that you don't know oh I mean there's some deep -seated fucking psychological shit going on there oh Stephen what oh there's a oh I think on Instagram Stephen's been posting oh shit she has a butterfly mask you guys and a butterfly belt and how fucking neon pink is that shit her wearing a butterfly mask seems especially sinister like some kind of like because that she's she is a butterfly she's gone from you know whatever her actual life is to like now she's the secret identity masked wrestler and she's blooming and she was a cat coming into her own fucking in her cursiless and shit right i don't know but then there's also like some amazing gold tiger stripes here like I can't take my eyes off this picture go to instagram I'm Stephen will post it not my favorite murder it's let me take this time to fucking plug our fucking social media good idea right I sound like a great person that's how we transition out of the darkest yeah that was uh the L Madavaharis aka the old lady killer awesome yeah god that's dark I know also just if you lived in a city where old ladies were getting killed totally how like sinister you just be like it's the devil yeah you're like at least find someone young please you someone young and irritating oh my god it's one of those people with the the young websites and stuff yes like a hacker like a hacker a young loud mouth hacker with a computer at the fucking cafe what do you if you built this computer yourself why would you transport it down to the cafe you get one outlet for two hours tops and you can't bring power strips no power strips not fair 100 % no unless you're going to let me use it but you're not you're using all of them and the whole yeah you're setting up your printer right doing what's happening you know someone's going to take a photo of you okay uh let's end it with not depressing things um i really like that story and i also like the idea that maybe we can set a short -term goal of like within the next five years we can become moderately conversational in Spanish.

[1189] Okay.

[1190] And Stephen, so that's a half decade.

[1191] Stephen can, Oh, you're moderately in math or whatever.

[1192] Stephen can check it.

[1193] And then we can eventually build to be like the girls that we hear having private conversations publicly.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] And then throwing in a like, Lucky Charms.

[1196] Great.

[1197] Or whatever, though.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] We'll just talk about cereal all the time.

[1200] and car washes.

[1201] Serial gossip.

[1202] All right.

[1203] Do you have a thing that you like for this week?

[1204] Yeah, I have a thing I want to shout out because it makes me feel not horrible.

[1205] Okay, that's key.

[1206] Are we calling this thing?

[1207] I think we're still calling it like the good thing of the week.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] Not catchy.

[1210] No, it's not.

[1211] This doesn't suck.

[1212] This isn't, hey, this isn't murder corner.

[1213] It's also not catchy.

[1214] happy by the by the performer feral that takes too long okay well this one is uh so a bunch of murderinos got together uh it was hosted by i think a woman named sarin norman who's a murderer you know is a person who put this together but it's a it's a murderino run so just put the word run in murder run no you know what i mean like r you and it's there and they did a uh like virtual 5k which means like you have to say you're going to run a 5K.

[1215] Okay.

[1216] You know, no one's here to check your work, but like, do it.

[1217] But do it.

[1218] Don't be an asshole.

[1219] And everyone would, um, raise money for the 5K.

[1220] And they raised, they all did it, all these fucking murder runos.

[1221] they raised over $3 ,000 for the Joyful Heart Foundation, which is a foundation who, whose effort is to end the backlog of untested rape kits in the U .S. Wow.

[1222] So $3 ,200.

[1223] That's amazing.

[1224] Yeah, and they went for runs.

[1225] That's, all of that is wonderful.

[1226] I mean, it's just such a cool, a cool organization that I'm, I, the subgroup, murderino subgroups are pretty incredible.

[1227] It's really intense.

[1228] Did you, somebody at a meet and greet told us that there's one called the complainerinos where they just go on and they just get to complain and everybody goes, yep, you're right.

[1229] And they're, they just, you can log on and just say something that you're mad about or don't like.

[1230] And the idea of that makes me laugh so hard of like just a safe space to go complain, get it off your chest and then go back to your life.

[1231] I feel like this podcast is that a little bit.

[1232] That's weird doing that, definitely, at each other.

[1233] I love it.

[1234] Well, it's just, yeah, it's nice.

[1235] It's so good.

[1236] What's yours?

[1237] I guess I would say, I feel like mine are always Netflix based, but we got to give those recommendations.

[1238] I got to lay on the couch indefinitely.

[1239] avoiding the rest of my life definitely um i started watching the mind of a chef and it is um anthony bourdain is the narrator but it's about this chef um david chang who is the he has the restaurant mama fuko momma fuko is it fuku no you said it right yeah that's a new to place of new york or maybe other stuff too yeah and it's just a really good it's a cooking show or or like one it's one of those kind of you know how chefs live and what they're love what they like or whatever but then he also like shows you how to make things oh cool in a very natural and not like slow way and not he just kind of talks you through it as he's making it yeah in a way that makes me go I bet I could make that and there's one part we were talking about learn to make chicken soup it's the easiest thing in the world, then you can give it to someone you love when they're sick.

[1240] It's learned to do it.

[1241] There's no reason you shouldn't learn.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] It was just a super enjoyable show, but it's been out for a while.

[1244] And that same guy is the one who now has the series Ugly Delicious.

[1245] Oh, right.

[1246] That's his series.

[1247] Okay.

[1248] Which is basically a continuation.

[1249] It feels to me like a continuation of that old episode.

[1250] And so just making you happy in between fucking Golden State Killer shit?

[1251] Yes, exactly.

[1252] Food shows are the best, man. They really are and it's that thing of I don't I'm not interested in making it yeah I love to watch I feel like maybe it's because chefs are so different than me yeah like I nothing about that appeals to me of like the work it takes no organization the fucking they're like chemists so rigid your schedule on your life and everything you do and the timing of it's so easy to fuck it up like it makes me want to quit just thinking about how hard it would be to make a dinner like that and then at the end of the day it's you have to serve it to a fucking bunch of plebs who might not fucking like it or want to put more more salt on it or whatever yes exactly or they might just be there to criticize it so like any like they're so all they're about is excellence on just constant excellence and it's really impressive yeah but then like so then when you're watching a show like this and then in their personality they're kind of cool and chill yeah then you're like oh you're the most fascinating person ever well anthony ordain is like it's just the crush he's just like he's just like like a crushville husband yeah you're just like why are you so cool why are they so cool i don't know it's like they've taken like they've taken it being obsessive and made it work yeah made it make them popular yeah and also good food yeah i don't know i really liked it i like that that's cool that's a good like that's a good like when you're when you need a minute of something beautiful and good and happy yes Food's so happy.

[1253] Food's really happy.

[1254] It's a celebration.

[1255] And it's also like, yeah, watching him eat a thing.

[1256] There's a part where they were like in Japan.

[1257] And he was trying, they were at this, you know, world famous sushi bar or whatever.

[1258] And he's trying these things.

[1259] And chef David Chang is trying these things.

[1260] And he loves it so much.

[1261] The food he's being served is made so perfectly and simply that he's like having a nervous breakdown.

[1262] Because he's like, I could never do this.

[1263] and it's the most fun thing to watch one person who's excellent at something worship someone who's really excellent at something.

[1264] It's just like that whole world.

[1265] It's just a world I don't understand that I love to watch.

[1266] I'm there with you.

[1267] Let's do it.

[1268] Yeah.

[1269] Let's go to dinner more.

[1270] Yes.

[1271] Let's go to dinner.

[1272] Every night.

[1273] Every night.

[1274] And don't forget to watch Nancy Silverton's episode of The Chef's Table, who is a famous L .A. restaurant tour and chef she's fucking awesome it's just an amazing like her dedication and the reason her restaurant moza is so insane is because she cares about every single item yeah i've met her she's fucking cool too really yeah she seems super cool she's just like just a cool lady yeah yeah love it um thanks for listening you guys tell us stuff you know let us know how you are yeah and Stephen loves to read your email So write them in Communicate with us We like it My favorite murder at Gmail And that's it Thanks for listening Yeah stay sexy And don't get murdered Goodbye Goodbye Elvis want cookie Oh Oh What cookie That sounds like a frog That sounds like a frog