Michael Moore (documentary filmmaker)

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] Experts on expert.

[2] I am Monica Padman's friend, Dan Rathers.

[3] Hi there, Daniel.

[4] Boy, we got a polarizing guest today that I love.

[5] We love him.

[6] We do, we do.

[7] Some of my very, very favorite documentaries that have ever been made, have been made by Michael Moore.

[8] He's an Academy Award -winning filmmaker, bowling for Columbine, Fahrenheit 9 -11, Sicko, where to invade next.

[9] and he has a podcast called Rumble with Michael Moore, which I listen to and is funny and subversive and all the things that I tend to like.

[10] Here's what I want to reassure the listener of.

[11] I will challenge Michael Moore in this.

[12] Yeah.

[13] The whole point is to discuss things until there's a solution.

[14] So it's important to talk about these things, even though we don't want to or it's scary or whatever.

[15] I think it's good we do and did.

[16] And beyond that, look, again, if everyone could just pop the political identity on a shelf, you will find Michael Moore to be not only hysterical quite often, very knowledgeable in all these different ways.

[17] Politics aside.

[18] And then a dude with fucking integrity in a huge heart.

[19] And again, might have a different approach than you would want someone to take, but a fucking stand -up guy with integrity.

[20] So please enjoy Michael Moore.

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[24] Listen for free, wherever you get your podcasts.

[25] He's an object.

[26] I was trying to figure out how to move my lazy boy in here.

[27] We would match.

[28] My Michigan made Lazy Boy.

[29] You know, they make those over, I think in Grand Rapids here.

[30] Take your time.

[31] I'm in no hurry.

[32] In fact, we're kind of delaying because Monica's going to get toothpicks so she can gnaw on them during the interview, as I will gnaw on my toothpicks, but they're laced with nicotine, so they're not suitable for her.

[33] Is that true?

[34] Yeah, nicotine toothpicks.

[35] They're phenomenal.

[36] Were you ever a smoker?

[37] You must have been.

[38] No, you know, I wasn't.

[39] I had bad experiences both with smoking, like, when I was 11, and then taking, drinking some alcohol, which just tasted awful.

[40] And so I never became a smoker and not really a very good drinker.

[41] How frequently will you drink?

[42] Once or twice a month, maybe.

[43] Okay.

[44] That's crazy.

[45] Yeah, I can't imagine doing it that little if you were allowed to.

[46] No, especially.

[47] I was raised by everybody's.

[48] Irish or Scottish in the family.

[49] So there was a lot of drinking going on in the extended family.

[50] Hi.

[51] Hi.

[52] This is Monica.

[53] Hi, Monica.

[54] No nicotine toothpicks for you.

[55] No regular toothpicks.

[56] Well, tea tree oil.

[57] Let's not sell them short.

[58] It's like, you know, I'm not a coffee drinker, but I love the smell of coffee and I love the taste of coffee.

[59] And so if I can get like coffee ice cream or coffee something, I'm all for it.

[60] What does it do to you?

[61] Makes you feel crazy?

[62] Coffee?

[63] I don't just like the taste of it.

[64] I was just explaining why I'm not much of a drinker because I don't like the taste of alcohol.

[65] I just had my first tomato five years ago, I think.

[66] I've never eaten a tomato because the first one I had.

[67] As a kid, I just hated it.

[68] Plus, the nuns in fifth grade called it a vegetable, and then the nun in sixth grade called it a fruit.

[69] And it never got resolved in my head, whether it was a fruit or a vegetable.

[70] So I thought, fuck that.

[71] I'm done with tomatoes.

[72] Until they can classify this thing.

[73] I'm not having it.

[74] Exactly.

[75] Especially the nuns, if the church, if God himself, cannot figure out if this is a vegetable or a fruit, I'm out.

[76] We could say it's the platypus.

[77] It's the platypus of edible flora.

[78] What the fuck is it?

[79] It's a mammal that lays eggs?

[80] I want an explanation.

[81] I believe in science.

[82] I need to hear the truth here.

[83] But I was filming in Italy a few years ago, and they brought out this plate full of, well, they called them tomatoes.

[84] And I had one, and it was like, this is the best thing I've ever eaten.

[85] And I ate the whole plate of these cherry tomatoes.

[86] And I'm thinking, how did the Italians get this right, considering tomatoes are indigenous to North America?

[87] And specifically, the Native Americans were the ones who invented the tomato.

[88] And yet in Italy, in other places where they use tomatoes in their food, man, they get it right somehow.

[89] And I don't know why it's never been explained to me, but I'm sure we're doing, we're putting too many chemicals or something on it here that's wrong.

[90] Well, I'm about to explain it to you third hand.

[91] So Kimmel read this very dense book about the history of tomatoes, and he told me that the American tomato growers, they have an agenda of priority.

[92] So number one priority is how long it stays on the shelf.

[93] Number two is the appearance.

[94] Number three is the color, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[95] My friend, taste is like tenth on that list of priorities.

[96] That's so crazy.

[97] Why we enjoy food or drink.

[98] isn't it primarily because it just tastes great?

[99] You would think.

[100] But where myself included, I go to the grocery store and I have an expectation of what the tomato is supposed to look like.

[101] Now, I've evolved into really liking heirlooms, but they're disgusting on the surface.

[102] You know, it's got all these convolutions and weird pits with fungus in it.

[103] It doesn't look appetizing.

[104] But through trial and air, I've discovered that they're the tastiest.

[105] So now I get through their looks.

[106] Wow.

[107] I think there's another whole area of this.

[108] too, that depends on whether or not your mother breastfed you or bottle fed you.

[109] And if you were bottle fed, like people in my generation were.

[110] Me too.

[111] And you too.

[112] Okay.

[113] So we got messed up by that.

[114] I never realized this.

[115] And I don't mean it for the reasons somebody might be thinking.

[116] I mean, literally that your mother's milk coats your digestive system with essentially the bacteria.

[117] Your whole microbiome comes from her virtually.

[118] Exactly.

[119] So you grow in your first year or two to have an immune system that is able to deal with bacteria and other things that maybe may enter your digestive system.

[120] And you're better off if you had that.

[121] If you got fed from a bottle, carnation milk or whatever it was, we missed out on all of that prep work.

[122] I'm going to go one step further for you, Michael.

[123] And we had my mom on.

[124] I interviewed her.

[125] So she put this in stone.

[126] I was colic.

[127] And I was.

[128] was bottle fed. So the simulac or the carnation, that didn't work either.

[129] So I was on caro syrup.

[130] Whoa.

[131] Yeah.

[132] That's what I sustained on was caro syrup.

[133] And I often think I'm six three.

[134] It's conceivable.

[135] I would have been like six five or something.

[136] You would have been for the pistons by now.

[137] Yes.

[138] I would have been on Ben Wallace's team.

[139] Yes.

[140] You and who was the, the center there?

[141] Lambere.

[142] Lambere.

[143] You and Lambere.

[144] You look like brothers.

[145] I know.

[146] I have heard that about vaginal birth versus C -section, like just coming through the canal.

[147] You pick up some good bacteria as well.

[148] Yeah.

[149] Wow.

[150] I don't even know.

[151] I mean, Dax, you're a lot younger than I am, but so I'm surprised that you had to be bottle -fed.

[152] I was bottle -fed.

[153] You were?

[154] And I'm 34.

[155] Really?

[156] Why didn't Nirmala?

[157] I mean, I think she tried to breastfeed at first, but then it's like, it's hard.

[158] And she was a working mom.

[159] Like, you just, she couldn't do it.

[160] The pump technology then wasn't good.

[161] Like, my wife had a battery power pump.

[162] She could do it anywhere.

[163] She'd be on set pumping.

[164] She'd be driving the car pumping.

[165] That wasn't an option in 87, I don't think.

[166] But if she was on set pumping, doesn't the motor sound pick up on the microphones?

[167] In between shots.

[168] Let's be clear.

[169] Oh, in between.

[170] Okay.

[171] I'm just saying, the way that sounded was, you know, they turned the camera around and we're filming whoever she was in the scene with, and she's over behind the camera.

[172] She might have done some off camera pumping.

[173] I wouldn't put that past her.

[174] It's pretty quiet.

[175] The new technology is pretty close.

[176] Hey, can I start by asking you a question?

[177] So you and Kristen were both born and raised in the Detroit area, correct?

[178] Yes.

[179] How close were your neighborhoods or your towns?

[180] Like, where were you born and raised?

[181] Yeah, so you're going to understand this better than any other listener, which is we were born but maybe 20 miles apart as the crow flies, but what different planets we lived on.

[182] So she lived in Huntington Woods, and I grew up in Milford, which is a stone's throw from where you were at.

[183] So I grew up where it turned to farmland, basically, and she grew up in a very kind of cosmopolitan, by comparison area.

[184] So for the listeners who, we won't put subtitles on it to explain what he just said, because we have to be from Michigan.

[185] But basically, Milford was if I, it was kind of out in the rural area.

[186] And because of that, that's where my correct GM had their test track for their cars.

[187] The Proving Grounds.

[188] Yes, I grew up like a mile from there.

[189] My mom was a janitor at the Proving Grounds on a night shift.

[190] So in other words, they, new cars, especially new cars, new models, they would take them out to Milford and just speed them around this track.

[191] And they had, you know, they would throw water on it to see how it would break and proving grounds is what they called it.

[192] They had Belgium road surface, so brick roads.

[193] All kinds of road surfaces, exactly.

[194] But you're out there in the peace and quiet of rural Milford.

[195] And then all of us, how often it did you have to go?

[196] No, they were meticulous when designed.

[197] that facility because as you know, that was back in an era where automotive espionage was a real thing and it was trade secrets to be protected.

[198] So all the tracks are built very far from any of the access roads.

[199] I think it might occupy 50 square miles or something really impressive.

[200] It's a huge facility.

[201] And they have, as you may know, that's restricted airspace.

[202] So you're not allowed to fly over the proving grounds.

[203] Yeah, they built it pretty well.

[204] And, you know, they even had a government facility on there where they worked on the tank program.

[205] So there was also sections of the Proving Grounds where there would be tanks driving around.

[206] Yes, military vehicles, et cetera.

[207] Your mom then essentially worked for General Motors at the Proving Grounds.

[208] And what about your dad?

[209] My dad sold cars at Avis Ford on Telegraph in Southfield.

[210] Wow.

[211] And then, you know, my mother started a company that ended up being a vendor for General Motors and we put on all their press events, all their new car launches, all this.

[212] And so I, from 14 to 28, also work worked for GM by proxy through my mom.

[213] So my dad, my grandparents, all worked for GM in Flint.

[214] Your mom and you for a period of time worked for GM.

[215] But out in Huntington Woods, that's a different place.

[216] My memory of Huntington Woods is that it was a mix of people.

[217] It was a, but they all were, they did well, good middle class, upper middle class people.

[218] It backs right up to the Detroit Zoo, weirdly enough.

[219] So Kristen's childhood home literally looks at the back of the lion enclosure.

[220] You want to talk about someone who heard some noises, those lions would just roar and moan all the time.

[221] And they're 40 feet away as the crow flies.

[222] That's true.

[223] But basically, 20 miles there means 20 minutes.

[224] So you grew up 20 minutes apart from each other.

[225] But you did not know each other.

[226] You did not meet each other then.

[227] No connection whatsoever.

[228] So when you first met each other, first got together, how am I doing, by the way, as your fill -in host?

[229] Is your biographer?

[230] Great interviewer.

[231] No, I'm just saying whenever you want to take a week off from this, because I have a lazy boy, just like yours.

[232] By the way, I'm going to let you do this because this is also what I do when I'm on people's shows.

[233] So, you know, who am I to say?

[234] But how did the two of you who grew up literally 20 minutes from each other in Michigan meet?

[235] We were at a mutual friends dinner party.

[236] There were nine of us.

[237] We didn't really connect at all at that dinner party.

[238] We just observed that one another was there.

[239] And then two weeks later, I had gone to a Red Wings King's game.

[240] And she had gone to a Red Wings game.

[241] Obviously, both from Detroit, both love the Red Wings, hurt more than me. She was, like, a fanatic about it.

[242] So in some way, yeah, the Michigan thing was the reason we then ran into each other there.

[243] And there we really connected and then started dating immediately thereafter.

[244] In L .A. In Los Angeles.

[245] She was Shrine Private School.

[246] Musical Theater, Tish.

[247] I was drugs and Jack Daniels and cocaine and punk rock music and festival.

[248] So we would have never crossed back.

[249] I hung out at St. Andrews every week.

[250] Let me just say that some of the very first punk concerts were at St. Andrews because if you talk to any of the greats in punk, clash, sex pistols, they will say that the origin of this was not in London.

[251] It was in Detroit, Michigan, with Iggy Pop, Iggy and the Stooges, and MC5.

[252] MC5.

[253] They're the most, yeah, hardcore band ever.

[254] I need to pause for one second to say that what I'm immediately relating to you on is you have this intense love for Michigan.

[255] Yes, I do.

[256] And pride, as do I. And you're so fucking critical of it all.

[257] So I just want to point out both things can be existing simultaneously.

[258] Like I find myself similar.

[259] Like I absolutely fucking love Michigan.

[260] I love Detroit.

[261] I love the USA.

[262] And I got a lot of notes.

[263] Because we love it, and we love so much about kind of where we were raised and this sort of, I mean, we could spend a lot on this and I'm not suggesting we do.

[264] I think because we love it so much, we can't stand to see the crap that goes on it.

[265] And I don't care whether we're talking about the auto industry or the fact that this last governor allowed for the poisoning of the people in Flint, Michigan, the water system.

[266] You know, I mean, we could just get on the whole damn list.

[267] The hardworking people at Kellogg's over in Bell Creek right now who are still on strike, who just want to be paid a fair wage.

[268] I mean, this goes up and down the state.

[269] But we're also the people.

[270] We are the state that put the country on wheels.

[271] We are the state that invented breakfast, both Kellogg's and Post.

[272] But it's also a whole bunch of things, too, in terms of just the music that we've given the world.

[273] We already mentioned the punk stuff, but everything from Madonna to Aretha to MoTown, Seeger, to Seeger, to Nugent, to all the classic rock, Alice Cooper.

[274] I mean, you just go down this list.

[275] It's amazing the kind of music that Michigan has given the world.

[276] And for movies, Francis Ford Coppola born in Detroit, comedians, Robin Williams, Lily Tomlin.

[277] Dach Shepard?

[278] And then there's Dax Shepard.

[279] Kind of waiting down the whole thing.

[280] Yeah, yeah.

[281] I'm sure you've heard this analogy, but I just heard it recently, and I really like it.

[282] And it's a great way to put everything in context, I think.

[283] It was pointed out in some documentary I watched that Detroit was in the 30s Silicon Valley.

[284] Right.

[285] And I just think there's so many things to consider when you think of that.

[286] I have two things to say about that.

[287] You're right because people, not just from around the country, but around the world, came to Detroit with their inventions.

[288] Chevrolet is not an American name.

[289] As a Frenchman who figured out, where am I going to build the United States?

[290] this invention, and he thought, I need to go to Detroit, Michigan, because that's where it's happening.

[291] And you could go down a whole list of things.

[292] Here's the other part of this, the thing that a lot of Michiganders don't know.

[293] We should have been, in some ways, the Silicon Valley, or at least whatever they call the Seattle area where Microsoft is.

[294] We should have been that.

[295] But because we fell apart in the 1980s, because the car companies went into disarray, by the time Obama became president, they were bankrupt.

[296] And so, A lot of people left Michigan.

[297] There was a huge brain drain, people like you and Kristen.

[298] Why stay there and collapse and suffer, right?

[299] The story of humans is the story of moving to the next place.

[300] Correct.

[301] But let me tell you who also left, Larry, who invented Google.

[302] Larry, I think, was from Huntington Woods.

[303] No way.

[304] Yes.

[305] Is that possible?

[306] I'm not done.

[307] Okay.

[308] Hewlett and Packard is from Detroit.

[309] Oh, wow.

[310] The guy after Jack, whoever invented Twitter, she's, I should have prepared for this.

[311] We didn't realize it was going to be a Michigan history masterclass.

[312] The guy he turned it over to who ran Twitter from 2009 to 2016, the CEO of it, was from the Detroit area.

[313] The two brothers who invented Photoshop and sold it for Adobe for a gazillion dollars, both grew up in Ann Arbor.

[314] I mean, you go down the list of these people.

[315] They did not stay in Michigan.

[316] I've often said, had we taken care of Michigan back when we needed to do that, I wonder how many people wouldn't have left and would have stayed, and all of that would have been there in Michigan to provide jobs, to help the economy.

[317] But you know, when you got out, right, you weren't thinking of, oh, I'm staying here.

[318] This place has happened.

[319] Well, to be honest, I'm 46, and I've been here 26 years, And I got to say, it took me three years to drink the Kool -Aid here.

[320] I lived downtown Detroit when I left, and I was very into that scene.

[321] The culture was so different.

[322] I knew how to navigate that.

[323] I did things that were cool there, that were not cool here.

[324] I was a very slow adopter of this whole lifestyle.

[325] Right out of the gates, obviously, my industry required, I come here.

[326] That's just a fact that this is where I had to come to be a comedian.

[327] But then I got infected even more.

[328] And I'll tell you some of the ways, and again, this will sound critical of Michigan, but I want everyone to know how fucking much my heart is in Michigan.

[329] I talk about it nonstop.

[330] I love it.

[331] I'll tell you the thing that broke through for me here.

[332] When you're at the grocery store here, and there's three people in front of you buying groceries, they all appear to be homeless.

[333] And two of the three have created TV shows and our billionaires, and one is homeless.

[334] And the cashier, because of this simple fact of the city, treats all of them the same.

[335] And I fucking love that.

[336] There's something unique out here that you don't know who's who.

[337] Now, I find Michigan to have a lot more status indicators.

[338] How you dress is very prescribed at a certain socioeconomic class.

[339] What car you drive, what neighborhood you live in.

[340] You know, all these little clues.

[341] And by the way, we're not unique.

[342] We want status just as much as everyone else.

[343] So I'm not being critical of that.

[344] It's just I find that the indicators of status in Michigan can be kind of oppressive.

[345] So that is something I notice when I go home.

[346] It's like you can file people into their socioeconomic group, and I don't love that.

[347] The other thing I notice when I'm in California, both of my sisters, live in California is that when I'm out there, those three people that are in the grocery store line and you're behind them, you're number four, and all you've got is a couple of apples and maybe a tomato.

[348] You have these three little items and the three in front of you have shopping carts.

[349] They will turn.

[350] If they turn and they see you with just three items, they will invite you to step in front of them and go up to the counter first so that you don't have to stand and wait behind them.

[351] I see little things like this in California constantly in terms of this kind of generosity of spirit.

[352] And I know you can find all the people in California that aren't that way.

[353] But I have noticed it over the years.

[354] And I would often think this would be a decent place to live more than just because the weather is so perfect.

[355] And do you have an explanation for that phenomenon?

[356] Because I have a guess at it.

[357] But I would like to hear what you think.

[358] The only one is possibly the weather because you just feel better.

[359] You get up in the morning and that sun, You know this because the sun in Michigan is not the same as the sun in California.

[360] When you're sitting down to watch a movie, you can literally sit in the theater see and tell if that movie was shot in California or not.

[361] So I think that because of that and because in Michigan's a fact, we have full sunshine one out of every four days of the year.

[362] If you're lucky.

[363] If you're lucky.

[364] I think that has a lot to do with one spirit and one soul.

[365] I mean, Monica, what suburb from Detroit are you from?

[366] I'm from suburbs of Atlanta.

[367] And her parents are an engineer and a computer engineer.

[368] Computer scientist, yeah.

[369] But that's so funny that you bring up the people here will kind of let you cut in front of them at the line because that's, to me, associated with the South.

[370] That's like a southern hospitality thing.

[371] I don't think that California gets that kind of like nice reputation, but I agree that it should.

[372] I would just say so I think obviously the weather is a part of it.

[373] But you just detailed for us what has happened in Michigan from let's, call it 1978 onward.

[374] So it's been just a steady trickling of people leaving, industries leaving, it getting harder, it getting harder.

[375] And so what I often think, and I really will say this about myself, I've only become nicer because I have the luxury to be.

[376] I think as soon as there's a scarcity, we can't help but be a little more primitive.

[377] Right.

[378] And not to be cynical about this, but the wealthy don't get to be and stay wealthy by being generous.

[379] They are first and foremost about the bottom line and what they can make and how they're going to make money off their money.

[380] And that's not true for all.

[381] Well, I can cite many generous philanthropist type people.

[382] But I mean, I've heard this from people who work at like a high -end restaurant or whatever and somebody with money comes in.

[383] And you'll hear this from waiters.

[384] They leave the smallest tips.

[385] And they'll say that they'll tell me this.

[386] And I'll say, yeah, because they didn't get wealthy by giving their money away.

[387] When I was growing up in Flint, Charles Stuart Mott was like the top General Motors, one of the big founders, based in Flint, the Mott Foundation, you know, does all these good things.

[388] But he was famous for, I remember hearing this story, like as a little kid, that the wealthiest man in Flint always left a 10 cent tip.

[389] Oh, Jesus.

[390] Well, but I said at the time, I said, yeah, but that was maybe back in the 30.

[391] So that was, you know, 10 cents was like a dollar and a half.

[392] I don't know.

[393] So I started to think back then that, yeah.

[394] This is kind of how the system works.

[395] So if I ever get to that place, I got to make sure that I am the opposite of that and do whatever I can with what blessings I have to make things a better place.

[396] But surely in your life, you start writing for a paper at U of M, then you write for a small paper in Flint, and then you come out and you write for a bigger paper out here, and then you're unceremoniously let go, and then you take that money, and then you do Roger me. Now, I have to imagine in all those phases I just named, you probably, weren't actively extending your hand below you to help everyone around you, but certainly as you became someone with capital in all the ways one can have capital, I bet your generosity increased.

[397] You weren't so focused on your own survival that you could reach your hand out.

[398] I did do that.

[399] The first time I made any of what you would call the big money, I sold my first film, Roger and Me to Warner Brothers, for $3 million.

[400] At that time, I was on Michigan unemployment.

[401] No, but it was, but the guys back in Flint, the guys were still working on you, assembly line or whatever.

[402] They were so happy that one of us scored because none of us were ever supposed to score anything like that.

[403] But right away, I said that what I'm going to do with the three million is, I'm going to pay my taxes.

[404] So there goes a million right there.

[405] Two million left.

[406] I said one million of it goes for me and one million for the other guy.

[407] And so I set up a foundation and I did a number of things with it.

[408] First thing I did in my deal with Warner Brothers.

[409] It was between them and Universal and Miramax at the time.

[410] And none of them would really listen.

[411] to me except Warner Bros. in terms of what I really wanted.

[412] And they kept throwing more money at me. I mean, there was one studio, Dax, that offered me $10 million for the movie.

[413] Oh, my God.

[414] But I figured I wasn't really for the movie.

[415] They said, we'd like to do like a five picture deal with you where you will write and direct these kind of socially conscious comedies.

[416] And give me $2 million per film and it would be $10 million.

[417] I said, well, what about Roger Me?

[418] What are you going to do with that?

[419] And they're like, well, no, don't worry.

[420] We'll get it I was like, no, no, no, no. I made this film for a reason, and I turned it down.

[421] And Warner Brothers, one, not because they offered the most money, but I had three conditions.

[422] There were four families, and Roger Me, who I filmed being evicted from their home because they're broke out of work.

[423] So I said, I need you, Warner Brothers, to help the four people that are evicted so that their mortgage or their rent for the next two years is paid for by Warner Brothers.

[424] And they said yes.

[425] Oh, wow.

[426] Yeah.

[427] And then I said, I need you to promise to put it in at least 200 theaters around the country.

[428] And Barry Reardon was the head of distribution there at the time at Warner Brothers.

[429] He said, well, I'll do better than that.

[430] We'll put it in 800 theaters.

[431] I said, wow.

[432] No documentary has ever been in 800 theaters.

[433] And number three, I said, I need you to send a group of people from Flint on a tour of the country of cities like Flint to show the movie and to talk about what we're going to do with our collapsed industrial economy.

[434] and show the film for free.

[435] And they said, not only that, we will provide a free ticket at any theater that's showing Roger Me, Warner Brothers will provide free admission.

[436] All you got to do is show your unemployment card and you get him for free.

[437] Oh, wow.

[438] Wow.

[439] They ended up putting in 1 ,400 theaters.

[440] They were the best, and I'm so glad I went with them.

[441] So with that blessing that I had, I tried to do as good as I could with it.

[442] But I had to tell you, back when I wasn't making anything and when I was unemployed.

[443] I helped set up a runaway shelter.

[444] I helped set up a women's abuse shelter.

[445] I helped set up a hotline center for drug overdoses.

[446] I did all of this, oftentimes with not being paid anything for it, sometimes being paid a little bit.

[447] But I just did it because I thought it was the right thing to do.

[448] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[449] What's up, guys?

[450] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[451] and let me tell you, it's too good.

[452] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[453] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[454] And I don't mean just friends.

[455] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[456] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[457] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[458] We've all been there.

[459] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange reactions.

[460] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[461] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[462] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[463] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[464] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[465] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[466] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[467] I'm sure you know who Adam Grant is.

[468] We had this long conversation.

[469] You can segment people generally in the population.

[470] You're kind of born this way or not.

[471] You're a self -sufficientist.

[472] You're someone like you who's been always wanted to help.

[473] My wife is among those people.

[474] I'm not that way, right?

[475] So I'm speaking to the people that are like me who aren't inclined to give away something before they're taking care of.

[476] So only through a ton of personal safety have I been able to do that.

[477] And so I have to imagine there's a lot of people like me that would love to be more kind -spirited, but they feel like they're drowning, you know?

[478] No, I know that.

[479] And in fact, I was thinking, just before we started, I'd much rather speak to you because of how you just described yourself than to Kristen, because she's really kind of already there.

[480] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[481] It's much better that you and I have this conversation because I think, and we don't know each other personally and watch you over the years.

[482] And I think that you're a one -of -a -kind person.

[483] You could be actually a voice.

[484] I'm not saying you have to lead some movement or whatever, but you are closer to representing what this country is, what it's about, the working people of this country.

[485] This is where you come from, and this is who you are, and your voice.

[486] those of us who grew up like this, like you, know you.

[487] And even though we don't know you, do you know what I'm getting at here.

[488] I do, I do.

[489] But let me ask you this, because this will be part of our larger conversation, which I'm so excited to have with you.

[490] By the way, I need to say, I adore you.

[491] I think you should know that.

[492] I fucking adore you.

[493] I got to give you two seconds.

[494] Roger and me came out, and you were enemy number one in Detroit.

[495] I never even thought to see that fucking movie, Roger and me. Wow.

[496] Never thought to see it.

[497] And by the way, I was pro -gay rights as a kid.

[498] I was anti -racist.

[499] I was as liberal as you get being from Oakland County.

[500] And still, I shan't ever watched that movie.

[501] I moved to California, a couple years out here.

[502] My girlfriend, Bree, is like, everyone loves this movie.

[503] Let's rent this movie.

[504] And I'm like, okay, let's get through it.

[505] And, I mean, just loved it.

[506] Literally called my mom and said, we missed the train here.

[507] You got to watch this movie.

[508] I was in a bubble whose bread and butter was the auto industry.

[509] So being critical of it was not welcomed.

[510] I mean, it's rare that I would have ever had this experience with a filmmaker.

[511] I'm not caught in any kind of snare like that being from Detroit other than yours.

[512] And so I just watched that.

[513] And I was immediately a huge fan.

[514] I loved it.

[515] And I've loved so many of your things since.

[516] We must talk about who to invade next at some point in this.

[517] But at any rate, something I might disagree with you on is, so my wife is very much a liberal and a progressive in the conventional sense that she cares about the masses.

[518] and she cares about our society.

[519] And that is tremendous value.

[520] I don't think anyone's arguing that value.

[521] So I'm in AA, and I work with tons of individuals.

[522] Now, it's not within my bandwidth to try to tackle alcoholism.

[523] It's just not how I'm wired.

[524] I'm wired about one alcohol calls me, yeah, where do you want to meet?

[525] Let's go to a meeting.

[526] I'm there.

[527] And I think that's okay.

[528] It's not only okay.

[529] It's an amazing thing that you do that.

[530] Amazing.

[531] We are a better world because you do that.

[532] And it is the individual acts.

[533] that are going to save us or break us.

[534] And now, if I were just to give you a quick quiz on where do you stand on this or other, but you would give the, essentially, the liberal left democratic position on most things.

[535] If women are working the same job as a man, should she be paid the same as a man?

[536] Absolutely not.

[537] Yes, of course, of course.

[538] Can you imagine if that was my position?

[539] Yes, of course.

[540] No, but seriously, go down.

[541] Do you believe the climate catastrophe is real?

[542] I do believe it's real.

[543] But I also am critical of the left's approach to it.

[544] I am too.

[545] And in fact, I'm a friend of mine from Flint and I, we made a film about this during the pandemic called Planet of the Humans.

[546] And some Democrats and liberals really went after us because you're not supposed to question the gods of the environmental movement.

[547] My point to them is Earth Day was 51 years ago.

[548] What are you even doing?

[549] Look at how crazy it is in California.

[550] In Florida, the East Coast, every place, it's falling apart.

[551] And of all the movements in my lifetime, women's movements, civil rights, all those advanced.

[552] We're not where we should be, but it advanced where women are now.

[553] It advanced where people of color are now.

[554] It's a lot still to go.

[555] Yep.

[556] But environmental movement, we're worse.

[557] What they tell is you can't have more than 350 parts per billion up in the atmosphere.

[558] They formed a group called 350 .org.

[559] This year, the latest from the national atmospheric and NASA and all them, we're not at 350 anymore.

[560] We weren't supposed to go back beyond 350.

[561] We're at 420 parts in the atmosphere.

[562] We are so fucked.

[563] Wrong direction.

[564] Wrong direction.

[565] And again, where's the environmental movement?

[566] What have they been doing?

[567] But here's where you and I will disagree, I think, which could be tasty.

[568] I think that liberals in general, well, I think both sides.

[569] both sides ultimately end up funneling into a terrible paradigm of good and evil and selfish and unselfish.

[570] And these things are just so incomplete and they're so lazy.

[571] So on the left, what I have seen the approach B is a completely ignoring the sources of carbon.

[572] So we had Bill Gates on.

[573] We read his book.

[574] It's so fucking good.

[575] Everyone should read it.

[576] It's a real fucking problem.

[577] It has to be addressed.

[578] And we have to address it by lobbying off the worst offenders in order.

[579] One of the lease offenders I hate to tell everyone is cars.

[580] It's one of the more insignificant elements of this huge pie of carbon.

[581] Yet the left has taken that and just fired up the shame machine.

[582] That's what we love to do.

[583] We are the big pointers at people.

[584] We're the shame mongers.

[585] So when you approach people with you're a piece of shit because you drive this car and you're actually not accurate about it being a big slice of the pie, guess what?

[586] Your movement wasn't very fucking effective.

[587] And so I have that frustration with our side.

[588] Yeah, again, I'm not one of those people because I grew up in the real world of Flint, Michigan.

[589] So I didn't grow up in Ann Arbor.

[590] I didn't grow up in Berkeley.

[591] I didn't grow up on the upper east side of New York.

[592] And I don't drive an electric car because, first of all, I can tell you, if you're worried about the environment, if you're worried about exploiting the poor around the world, all those rare minerals that have to go into the battery of that car and all the other functioning of that car, if you really took a look at that, you're driving that car.

[593] so you can look good, and oh, pro -earth, I'm all for that.

[594] That's not true.

[595] I remember back when I had a newspaper there in Flint, and they were just starting recycling.

[596] I thought, I'm going to go follow one of these recycling trucks around.

[597] And so I followed around for the day, and then when I guess the truck was full or whatever, and you think he's going to take it to a recycling place.

[598] Some magic place that new products are popping out the other side.

[599] Yeah, he takes it to outside Holly, Michigan.

[600] All right?

[601] You know, it's in your county.

[602] Yeah, yeah, a ski hell?

[603] Yes.

[604] But they've got it all this trash, all these things that we thought were being recycled.

[605] We're just going into dumps or they're being shipped to the third world.

[606] Uh -huh.

[607] When you dig into this and because I'm not into any of the films I've made, I'm not making them because I'm trying to just support this one thought or this one side.

[608] And people know this.

[609] If they've seen my films, I go, I will go after Democrats.

[610] I'll go after liberals who are just conning people with the things that they're saying.

[611] And I think for many years, it hurt the Democrats.

[612] They couldn't win, especially locally, elections, because too many people were onto it.

[613] And so I encourage people to run for office.

[614] And I think this has now helped the Democrats in recent times because now a bartender in the Bronx will run and get elected to Congress, AOC.

[615] Jamal Bowman just got elected this last year.

[616] And he was a principal at a middle school.

[617] So more normal people running for office, nurses, teachers, factory workers, we would be so much better off than what ends up in Congress.

[618] And so I've been preaching this for a long time that if you tell me that you're on the left, I want to know what country station you're listening to because you're never going to reach out and you're never going to bring other people into the fold if you are just on your high horse.

[619] You have no idea what they're going through, what they listen to, what their culture is.

[620] You just care about yours.

[621] Look, I know on the far, far right, if that's 10 or 20%, they may be lost.

[622] I hate to say that.

[623] I hope they're not.

[624] But there's so many people that consider themselves Republicans or conservatives or whatever.

[625] And we have more in common than not.

[626] Right.

[627] Just as I was going down that list with you, if I ask most Republicans, do you believe a woman should be the same as a man if they're doing this?

[628] the same job.

[629] Only a crazy person says no. I try to tell liberalism and Democrats this.

[630] We're not out on some left -wing limb.

[631] We are the mainstream of this country.

[632] What do you mean?

[633] Meaning the majority of Americans agree with us.

[634] Really?

[635] Yes, just look at the polls.

[636] 90 percent of all Americans, and that means a majority of Republicans, want good gun control laws.

[637] They're done with all this school shootings and all this stuff.

[638] 80 percent believe there should be a paid family It's in every other democracy and industrialized country, and the majority of Republicans believe in that.

[639] Why don't we start with the things that we agree on?

[640] And let's get those things fixed.

[641] Then we can duke it out on the things we don't agree on.

[642] You're against abortion?

[643] I happen to believe that a fertilized egg is not a human being.

[644] A seed is not a flower.

[645] A stem is not a flower.

[646] A flower is a flower.

[647] And so if the fertilized egg can't exist outside the womb, it's not what we would call a baby.

[648] That's my personal belief.

[649] You don't have to agree with it.

[650] We've had people we elect to office.

[651] Let there be a vote.

[652] If I lose, I lose.

[653] I guess I don't lose because I'm a guy, so I'm never going to have to worry about it.

[654] But I will stand for the things I believe in, and I will say to people, if you're against gay marriage, same -sex marriage, my advice to you is, don't ever get gay married.

[655] You'll hate it.

[656] Gay -married.

[657] When you said, if you ask everyone, should men in which women, should men in which, women make equal pay for the same job and everyone would say yes.

[658] And that's true.

[659] I think everyone would say yes.

[660] But do you think everyone acts on that?

[661] Do you think everyone would vote for that?

[662] Like, I think just because people say, they know they should say yes.

[663] I mean, you talk to people all the time.

[664] You're out there.

[665] So I'm asking, do people, do people's actions match what they say?

[666] Yes.

[667] I think if there was a ballot proposal in just about every state, I think that most people would vote yes on that ballot proposal.

[668] I think a 20 % though wouldn't.

[669] I think you're always going to have that 20 % that are on some far far out place.

[670] The ones who have not been invited to Thanksgiving dinner this year.

[671] Everybody had a year off from Uncle Bud being at the table.

[672] So I don't know what people are doing now.

[673] No, I do believe that.

[674] Now, when you say, will they go out and work for it?

[675] No, most people don't want to do that.

[676] Most people think if you vote, that's enough.

[677] And you know what?

[678] I don't think it's enough.

[679] I'm so happy.

[680] If that's all you do, you're being a good American.

[681] There are still, even with the huge turnout that we had in the 2020 election, there's still 90 million plus American adults who did not vote.

[682] And it's like, God, people died for this right.

[683] But I understand why people don't vote because what do they get for it?

[684] What are these politicians doing to make this better for everybody?

[685] And it looks kind of hopeless sometimes.

[686] I think if you're African American, if you're black, why is the Voting Rights Act not been renewed?

[687] It's so simple.

[688] So I get why people don't vote.

[689] I encourage people to run for office.

[690] I ran for office right when they lowered the voting age from 21 to 18.

[691] You were the youngest government point ever.

[692] Oh, my gosh.

[693] Isn't that crazy?

[694] Yeah, it was right after they lowered the voting age.

[695] And that day, I came home from high school, as a senior in high school.

[696] And back then you had to have your shirt tucked in, or they gave you the swats or the paddle.

[697] the assistant principal walk around this big wood board more get over here you're sure it's not tucked in oh sorry yeah i tucked it right in bend over oh no it was right in the cafeteria too there's 500 students in the cafeteria no please don't do this here i got home man my butt was so sore i picked up the flint newspaper it just arrived and it said school board president retiring election in june to replace him and i started thinking wait the school board that's the boss of the principal, the assistant school.

[698] It's above, yeah, you've gone over his head.

[699] I called up the city clerk and I said, I just saw on the paper that there's going to be a school board election in June, how old do you have to be to run for school board?

[700] The guy in the phone goes, 18.

[701] Oh, wow.

[702] But then right away, I start thinking, oh, my God, I got to get thousands of signatures.

[703] It's going to cost me thousands of dollars.

[704] So what do I got to do if I'm 18 to get on the ballot?

[705] And he looks, he's looking.

[706] He says, you need 20 signatures.

[707] on a petition.

[708] 20.

[709] Wow.

[710] That's it.

[711] And I'd be on the ballot.

[712] And my first thought was, I know 20 stoners that would sign anything I put in front of them.

[713] And that's what I, next day I went and got the petition.

[714] And I just, all through all the school day, I'm just going, hey, Jerry, could you sign this?

[715] Yeah, man, sure.

[716] For you, Mike, anything.

[717] And I got 20 people to sign it.

[718] I got on the ballot.

[719] I came in first place, mainly because six other adults, older adults, were so horrified.

[720] that this long -haired hippie was running for the school board, they got petitions and they ran against me, not understanding that they were going to split the older adult votes six different ways, and I won with what's called a plurality, came in first place, and my goal was fire that assistant principal.

[721] By the end of the first year, I had convinced four of the seven, a majority of the school board, to fire that guy that a year earlier had given me the paddle in front of 500 students.

[722] And it was like, here I am.

[723] 18.

[724] I'm thinking, this is how easy government is.

[725] Man, what else can I do?

[726] Yeah, no kidding.

[727] That could have been falsely encouraging.

[728] On some level it was.

[729] But if that happened to you at 18, you'd be thinking, whoa.

[730] And the previous year, I ended up on the evening news with Walter Cronkite, CBS Evening News.

[731] I'm a junior in high school.

[732] And I got picked to go to Boy State.

[733] Do you remember what Dex, what Boy State was?

[734] You, I'm sure, were never selected by the principal.

[735] No, I was not.

[736] Two boys from every high school in the state go to the state capital in Lansing and play government for a week and you elect a boys governor and a legislature and all this and I didn't want to do any of this and I had a dorm room there at Michigan State University and I just closed the door and locked it and whoever the student had had the room he left behind all these vinyl records there was this one from this woman I'd never heard of her, Carol King and it was called Tapestry and I just put that album on and I said oh this is good I like this I just stayed in the room the whole week I only went out for food to the vending machine down the hall.

[737] And on the second day, I went down to get food.

[738] They had just invented Ruffles potato chips, by the way, with the ridges.

[739] My thinking was, we're getting more chip per chip because of the mountains of ridges.

[740] Yeah, corrugated nature of it.

[741] Exactly.

[742] So I'm standing there at the snack machine.

[743] And on the bullet board, it says, speech contest for Boy State.

[744] Write a speech on the life of Abraham Lincoln and win a prize.

[745] And then it said, sponsored by the Elks Club.

[746] Now, my dad had just gone to join the Alex Club in Flint, and when he went there, at the top of the application form, true story, this is now in 1970, two years after Martin Luther King is killed, at the top of the form, it says, Caucasians only.

[747] And my dad looked at that, he put the form down, his buddy, say, where are you going?

[748] I said, I can't join this.

[749] And I'm looking at this poster, speech contests on Abraham Lincoln sponsored by the club that won't let black people in the club.

[750] So I said, I think I'm going to go write me a speech.

[751] I went back to the room with my ruffles, and I wrote this speech attacking the Elks Club.

[752] How dare you sponsor a speech contest of the life of Abraham Lincoln?

[753] And I showed up the next day to give it with 10 other boys, and they were all, you know, all these laudatory things about Abraham Lincoln.

[754] I stand up and give this anti -Elks club speech.

[755] And at the end, the speech teachers, who were the judges, named me the winner of the contest.

[756] Oh, my gosh.

[757] I start to leave and the teacher says, oh, no, no, wait, hang on.

[758] Tomorrow, when they announce who the governor of boys state is and the legislature, you have to give the speech.

[759] That's the tradition.

[760] I said, I can't give this speech.

[761] I'm a very shy person and no, you have to give it or we'll call your parents back then or we'll call your parents.

[762] That's all you had to say.

[763] And so I showed up and I gave the speech.

[764] The head elk guy was sitting on the stage to hand me the award and he's got one of those big elk, the horns, you know, like on the, what's the Simpsons?

[765] Homer belonged to whatever they were called, the woodcutters or whatever.

[766] And so I do the speech.

[767] I just attack.

[768] him in his club during the whole speech, everybody is roaring.

[769] And then I just turned around to him at the end, and I just said, And I don't want your stinking trophy.

[770] And then I ran off the stage, and the press was there, and they were trying to, like, stop me. But I got out of there back when I could run.

[771] And I got to my dorm room.

[772] I locked it.

[773] About an hour later, somebody's banging on my door.

[774] You got a phone call down on the pay phone at the end of the hall.

[775] Oh, who is it?

[776] It says it's the CBS Evening News.

[777] What?

[778] So I go down there.

[779] Yes, I'm Jeff Levine, the executive producer of CBS Evening News of Walter Cronkite.

[780] We heard what you did in Lansing, Michigan today.

[781] And we didn't realize that we thought the Civil Rights Act took care of this, but it's only for things that are open to the public.

[782] And Elks and other things like this are clubs, so they're private.

[783] So it's still, it's allowable to discriminate on basis of race if it's private.

[784] We'd like you to come on with Walter Cronkite tonight.

[785] I'm like, oh, no, I said, there's not enough clear a sill in the state of Michigan to get me to go on.

[786] So I didn't go on.

[787] He did the story anyways.

[788] I'd never been on TV or anything in my life.

[789] Oh, my Lord.

[790] Were you a pariah when you returned?

[791] No, it's the first time girls ever talked to me. Oh, wow.

[792] Well, not among the student body, but was the town like, oh, this is the guy who's trying to end the Elks Club.

[793] Yes, no, I was a pariah with them, but not the students.

[794] The students were all like, oh, my God, that was so cool.

[795] Yeah.

[796] But again, my thinking was I'm 16 and I got on the evening news across the whole country for doing what, just saying something was obviously wrong.

[797] And it was such a lesson at such a young age that I could affect change by doing something like taking somebody to A, A, that's a small thing according to you.

[798] But not to me and not to anybody who's lived around or been with alcoholics or whatever.

[799] But you can see where these moments in your life gave you an inflated.

[800] It turned out to be true, but an inflated sense of...

[801] I could do something.

[802] Yes, yes.

[803] Those are, like, really landmark events that then encourage you to take bigger swings and bigger swings.

[804] And just kept doing it, and I didn't always win.

[805] But as I got older, too, I realized, like, so I was out campaigning for Bernie almost two years ago.

[806] And yet, as a Bernie voter, twice.

[807] In fact, I helped campaign for him the very first time he got elected to Congress in 1990.

[808] I have to say, having not voted for Biden, that I have to say, I have.

[809] have been so moved by the things that he cares about, the things that he's tried to get done, the little things that are been forgotten because we're all in the midst of yelling about this infrastructure bill or whatever.

[810] But a few months ago, he forgave the student debt of every American who is disabled, just gone with a stroke of the pen.

[811] And I've never seen anything on the news about this.

[812] I read it in a small, like, you know, the jump page on A14 and the paper, but it just didn't get any attention.

[813] And he's done so many things.

[814] like that.

[815] And I think that he has a deep moral core.

[816] I think his son's death completely moved him.

[817] And now he's like, what can we do to make it better for women for single moms?

[818] How can we make sure that if you've got an elderly parent to take care of that you don't lose your job?

[819] Yeah, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the integrity of Bernie Sanders.

[820] As I did McCain.

[821] Now, I don't agree with Bernie Sanders.

[822] And I didn't agree with McCain, but I see a level of integrity that's pretty undeniable.

[823] and I respect that person.

[824] And we're happy when we see it, aren't we?

[825] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[826] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[827] I want to tackle in our last bit of time here, what you just said, which I totally agree with, if you take these individual issues, you can get something like consensus, you can get 70%, 80%, 90%.

[828] My great frustration right now, and I could be wrong about this, but I am frustrated that this current climate is sold as the left against the right.

[829] Because in fact, I think the true battle that's happening is the 80 % against the 20%.

[830] I think 10 % of the right's fucking nuts and I think 10 % of the left's fucking nuts.

[831] And the enemy is the 10 % on both shoulders.

[832] That's what's infuriating me. And I think we've been completely hijacked by that 10%.

[833] And I think they're yelling with bullhorns, these issues that are very divisive.

[834] They're never going to find a compromise on.

[835] And they're just getting further and further away from the things that could be pragmatic and productive.

[836] And I wonder, first of all, do you agree with that?

[837] And then secondly, what role do you play in that?

[838] Yeah, I get entirely what you're saying.

[839] I look at it through a slightly different lens that the battle, if we want to call it that, the fight, the struggle that you would have in any democracy is between those with wealth and those 40 % of the American public, the adults, have only.

[840] about $400 to $500 to their name, actual cash available to them on any given day.

[841] I'll send you this article, this investigation, that almost the majority of Americans, if a loved one across the country died tonight, they don't have the money to buy a plane ticket to go to the funeral.

[842] This is awful in the richest country on the planet that we have this kind of disparity between those who have the money to do that and those who don't have the money.

[843] And when people like they ask me about the working class all the time or I'm introduced, as this person who grew up in the working class and all that.

[844] The truth is, and this is where, to get to your point about what is the divide here, the truth is that now the majority of the working class in this country are women.

[845] They're the lowest paid, not the men.

[846] I mean, there are a lot of working class men, but women make up the majority of the working class and people of color, women of color.

[847] When you hear the word working class now, you need to think of a 35 -year -old woman who is African -American or his.

[848] Hispanic.

[849] Then the guy with oil on his face coming out of the plant.

[850] Exactly.

[851] Not that he isn't working class and not to take anything away from the guys, guys who are listening, but we all need to realize more that we are in the same boat.

[852] And we need to take a look at what we call capitalism.

[853] And it's not what it used to be.

[854] And we have got to believe whatever religion you grew up in, whether it was you were Catholic or Baptist or Jewish or Muslim Hindu, they all have the same concept of we are all equal in God's eyes and we all must have a seat at the table and everyone gets a slice of the pie.

[855] And I realize not everybody's going to get the same size slice, but everybody gets a slice of the pie and everybody gets a seat at that table.

[856] We are not a true democracy unless we make that happen.

[857] One of my frustrations, and I can already tell you the counterpoint to this, but one of my frustrations is you brought one up abortion.

[858] So abortion is One of, unfortunately, the only issues that we have out there that really a compromise seems impossible.

[859] What's the compromise?

[860] Well, I have one, but I'm afraid I'll get attacked by the left.

[861] Say what, because let me have a chance to answer it.

[862] You should say it.

[863] Okay.

[864] Just like I think we are critical of the right when they use the Second Amendment written in the 1700s about muskets, and we point out quite clearly, obviously they didn't have ARs then, okay?

[865] Can I just interrupt you and say that they didn't have bullets when they wrote the Second Amendment, actual bullets.

[866] That was Samuel Colt in the 1820s.

[867] Right.

[868] So all three of us would be in agreement that they're being very, for lack of a better term, lazy about what has happened since that was written and where we're at now.

[869] They don't want to at all incorporate what's happened.

[870] And that's frustrating.

[871] And this is, I'm going to get killed, but I will say we're arguing about Roe v. Wade, and we're arguing about it in an era where the only option was to take the baby out through abortion.

[872] And we are protecting that method so much now with a religiosity that I think has missed out on the fact that we have the morning after pill.

[873] We have a pill you can take the morning after you have sex that will terminate any potential pregnancy.

[874] So I don't know why our side isn't giving at all.

[875] I don't know.

[876] I think our movement should be, we have a technology now that probably makes this debate much less heated.

[877] So what we're asking for is that that morning after pill be available everywhere.

[878] Absolutely everywhere for free.

[879] No questions asked.

[880] You go into the school nurse.

[881] All you say is I need this.

[882] No one asks a fucking thing.

[883] That should make the right kind of happy.

[884] The left still has our thing.

[885] You shouldn't have an unwanted pregnancy.

[886] But see, I see our lack of acknowledging there's been a technological improvement on this.

[887] Now, again, there are cases.

[888] I'm not saying there's not cases, but I do think we must suggest, okay, what if we all agree to first -term abortions?

[889] Like, morning after pill, number one, that's our line of defense.

[890] We agree, but you're going to have to give, and that thing's got to be everywhere.

[891] And then also, there are going to be some cases that we have to do a first -term abortion.

[892] That seems unforeseeable on my side of the aisle that we would even think of a way to meet in the middle on this.

[893] I want to hear what your criticism of that would be.

[894] Well, yeah, first, let me just point out the obvious.

[895] These are two guys discussing this, and I have no plans to be pregnant at any time in the near future, and I'm sure you don't either.

[896] As much as I'd like to experience it, yes, it's not in the cards for me. I don't believe that was the comedian talking.

[897] I think you probably...

[898] No, no, I would love to grow a human in me. Well, let me say the first thing right away I will agree with.

[899] The morning after pill should be available everywhere for free, 24 -7, absolutely.

[900] Just like so many other things in health care need to be.

[901] available.

[902] So that's the first thing.

[903] But here's the thing.

[904] We men really shouldn't be able to have a say in this and we would not like it if the majority gender, which are women, by the way, 51 % of the country are women.

[905] We hold the power.

[906] We have 75 % of Congress men.

[907] They're the majority gender and they only get 25 % of the seats in the Senate and the House.

[908] So right away, something is askew about how we're even able to talk about this.

[909] But no, there won't be a meeting in the middle on this, in part because women want the control over their own bodies and their own reproductive systems.

[910] And enough men, maybe not a majority, but enough men agree with that statement.

[911] And so that's not going to be resolved.

[912] Can we ask Monica really quick?

[913] I think the most relevant that I want to hear what Monica's take on that is.

[914] I don't think anyone, any woman at least, but I don't think anyone on the left would ever have a problem with making the morning after pill available across all fronts for free and immediately and before we tackle the next thing, let's do that.

[915] I don't think anyone on the left would have a problem with that.

[916] But the predicament with people who are against abortion, they still think in the second that intercourse has happened, if there's anything happening, it's a baby.

[917] So to them, it's the same.

[918] Well, that's where they'd have to give.

[919] So I think you're right.

[920] I think it's a spectrum of people who have a variety of opinions that are anti -abortion.

[921] And I think some of them are pro morning after pill.

[922] I think there's got to be a second.

[923] But no one on the left is anti that.

[924] Like I think you're positioning it as the left doesn't want to give.

[925] The left would happily give immediately for that.

[926] No, what they'd be giving is, okay, we're going to say, if you make the morning after pill available every single place, we will stop fighting to protect second and third term abortions.

[927] So that's what we would be giving.

[928] And then the right would have to be giving, okay, in order to get that, we're going to.

[929] to support the morning after pill being everywhere.

[930] Like, I'm just saying what could potentially be a compromise in a seemingly...

[931] Can I say something here?

[932] Yes, please.

[933] How about, let's say we lived in a death penalty state, which you do actually in California, even though it's suspended by the current governor.

[934] But let's say you live in a death penalty state.

[935] Shouldn't then a woman, if abortion is illegal, it's a crime, because you're saying you're killing a human being.

[936] That baby inside you is a human being and is life.

[937] And therefore, if you kill that life, you are going to be sent to the electric chair.

[938] I can't believe most people would believe that that would be the right thing to do.

[939] But if you don't, I would say to you is, then I don't think you really believe that is a human being.

[940] If you don't support whatever the punishment is for killing a human, life in prison, electric chair, whatever, then you're not really being completely honest here.

[941] Like you said, what if we allowed some first trimester abortions because it was for the safety of whatever?

[942] A person didn't know that they were unconscious, they were raped, they had no idea they had sex.

[943] There's certainly situations.

[944] Well, think about the gray area there already.

[945] If you believe the fetus is a human being, then you can't kill that fetus because the woman was raped or the woman.

[946] You can't split hairs like that.

[947] You have to either say that's a human being and that has to live.

[948] No matter how it was conceived, it has to live.

[949] If you don't believe that, then I know you don't really believe that fetus is a human being.

[950] And you need to knock the crap off here.

[951] Well, but hold on, hold on.

[952] Michael, you and I believe the same.

[953] I do not believe a zygote is a baby.

[954] I don't believe that.

[955] It's not a baby to me. When is it a baby?

[956] When it comes out.

[957] Yes, when it can live outside the womb of the mother.

[958] But I do understand people think that's a baby.

[959] And I know how I feel about killing a baby that just came out.

[960] I know how I feel about infanticide.

[961] So if I believe that's a baby, I have to know how they feel.

[962] I'm saying you don't actually get to believe that.

[963] My point is that Draymond believes.

[964] that the sun revolves around the earth.

[965] Dremont Green believes that earth is flat, not round.

[966] I mean, yes, he can believe that all he wants.

[967] It doesn't matter.

[968] We're not going to start changing our textbooks.

[969] But you're dealing in really huge extremes right now, and I don't think it's helpful.

[970] So you're saying if you believe that's a fetus, then you should sentence everyone to death.

[971] I reject that.

[972] Fuck that.

[973] That's saying someone is completely irrational.

[974] There's a huge gradient of how they feel about it.

[975] And I think that you're being salacious in that option.

[976] So my only option is to say that someone should be sent to the death penalty.

[977] Then fuck, yeah, you've figured out a way for me to say it's wrong.

[978] But fuck that.

[979] Let's try for a second to just acknowledge some people feel the way about that fetus as you and I feel about when the baby comes out of the vagina.

[980] They have a right to feel that way.

[981] They don't have a right to impose their feelings on the majority of this country.

[982] The majority of the country does not agree with this.

[983] They don't have to get an abortion.

[984] I agree with you.

[985] I agree with you.

[986] Look, I'm pro -choice.

[987] I see what you're saying, and I think he's saying the same thing.

[988] Dax is trying to find a way, as I just said, can't we find ways to come together?

[989] The whole point was that one is the hardest.

[990] I would say that's the hardest divisive issue between the left and the right.

[991] So if we're going to be productive in this country, instead of every fucking conversation, and I actually am a little bit pissed at the moderators of presidential debates, I'm pissed at a lot of people that are impressed.

[992] let's not focus on the one issue we're never going to see eye to eye on and the left does this and the right does this for the right it's all about abortion well guess what you guys we're never going to fucking agree on that one that sucks on the left we've got some that are insane we're not going to be a fucking socialist country get over that that's not happening stop fucking talking about that let's talk and focus about the 80 % of things that we can agree on and we can be productive on So I think both sides are guilty of it, and we're building a whole platform on these five issues that there's no compromise for instead of the cotrillion that there's a compromise for.

[993] It's just not productive.

[994] Right.

[995] But on the issue of socialism, whatever you want to call it, the majority of the country believes in Social Security.

[996] It is a socialism product, but we don't have any state -owned businesses, and we're not going to have any.

[997] Well, the state is the largest landowner in the country, number one.

[998] They provide offshore drilling, as you know, there in California and up in Alaska.

[999] The government does actually own a lot of things.

[1000] And for a while, President Obama was the de facto CEO of General Motors and Chrysler when they went belly up in 2008, 2009.

[1001] So there are many things that we decided the government actually would do a better job of.

[1002] And there are some things, for instance, maybe the government should not be in the business of building cars.

[1003] But I wrote to Obama when he was the de facto head of General Motors.

[1004] And I said, you know, this is a great moment where this thing, the car, which we all need, this is a great time, though, to have a discussion about transportation.

[1005] And why can't we in Detroit and Flint build trains?

[1006] Why can't we build light rail trains?

[1007] Why can't we do this and let the government not own it necessarily, but be in charge of saying this is what you've got to.

[1008] do if we're going to be now in charge of transportation.

[1009] I just think we have a lot of opportunities to behave like we the people.

[1010] That's who we are.

[1011] That's our first three words of our Constitution.

[1012] We, the people.

[1013] What if we had more of a say in these things?

[1014] And what if we took care of better of each other?

[1015] Wouldn't we better off that?

[1016] Don't get into it doesn't matter if it's socialism or not sort of, whatever name you want to put on it.

[1017] It's just that we should be taking care of each other better.

[1018] I think that's what Biden is trying to do.

[1019] And I don't know, work more toward those ends.

[1020] But I hear your frustration.

[1021] And I would like to live in that country that you'd like to live in where we just get along better.

[1022] We sometimes have to agree to disagree.

[1023] And if the majority believe one thing, and that's the way they want the country to be, that's the way it is.

[1024] And I've had to live many years in that country where I have not agreed with what the president or the Congress are doing.

[1025] I don't leave.

[1026] I don't give up.

[1027] I help other candidates.

[1028] I started off by running for office myself.

[1029] So I agree with you.

[1030] I just, I wish the main focus wasn't for every politician.

[1031] Let me ask you the most polarizing question right now.

[1032] Let me put you in a fucking ditch right now.

[1033] It's so useless.

[1034] I started with you when I was asking you the questions.

[1035] What I start with?

[1036] Do you think women should be paid the same as men?

[1037] I didn't start with a polarizing one.

[1038] I didn't start with one where I thought we were going to have some fight over.

[1039] No. You and I agree.

[1040] And we could go down that list.

[1041] You and I agree.

[1042] There's something wrong with the climate here.

[1043] We should fix it.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] And by the way, I bet we'd agree all the way down to the list until we got to number 1 ,000 and you think the spectrum should be a little more socials and I think it should be a little more capitals.

[1046] I mean, the mountain would be things we agree upon.

[1047] Right.

[1048] But if we start every conversation and we identify with the most polarizing issue, we can't ever see that mountain of overlap.

[1049] Right.

[1050] You and I do well.

[1051] We are not the wealthiest people in this business, but we do well.

[1052] And I don't know, a decade ago, I was going over my taxes with the accountant to file my 1040 and all that.

[1053] And I said, why is it that I'm not having to pay a whole lot for that Social Security tax, that's 7 % that comes out of our paycheck?

[1054] And he says, well, that's because if you make over $130 ,000 a year, you only pay that 7 % up to $130 ,000.

[1055] after that, you don't pay anything into Social Security.

[1056] I was like, what?

[1057] But are you telling me, then, all the people that are making 40, 50, 60 ,000 a year, 7 % of their entire paycheck goes to Social Security.

[1058] But because I made more than 130 ,000, only 7 % up to 130.

[1059] The other 100 ,000 I made, free, no Social Security taxes.

[1060] That didn't seem right to me. And I thought, wow.

[1061] So I went and did some reading and some research, and I found that if we, Dax, you, me, Monica, she's rich.

[1062] I'm just saying that if we all paid 7 % of whatever we earned, 50 ,000, 150 ,000, 5 million, if we all paid 7%.

[1063] There's this thing that Mansion was talking about last week.

[1064] We're going to run out of money there for Social Security in the 2030s or whatever it was.

[1065] And that may be true the way we're doing it.

[1066] But if we all had to pay our fair share and we all paid the same 7%, the working stiff in McComb County has to pay, we'd have enough money right now to go into the 2090s.

[1067] So this thing about how we're going to run out of money for Medicare, Social Security, and all this, a lot of that is because some of us who do better than others aren't paying the same exact percentage that they're paying at $50 ,000 a year.

[1068] Can we agree on that?

[1069] I can, but I have to point out the only thing you're leaving out, which is if you make a billion dollars a year and you spend 7%, you're putting 7%.

[1070] $70 million into the kitty, but when you take and collect your Social Security, you're going to cap out at $3 ,000 a month or whatever the cap is.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] I'm not saying that you're wrong or that we shouldn't, but there's another reality, which is the premise of the system is you put into it and then you take that out.

[1073] And so if you're putting in $8 ,000 to one of what you pull out, you might go, that's actually not a great thing for me. Right.

[1074] Again, we have to acknowledge every side of it before we're going to approach.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] I guess what I would say is that the billionaire doesn't even need social security.

[1077] Well, doesn't need social security to begin with.

[1078] But also is so proud to live in this great country where he got to make that money.

[1079] It wasn't given to him.

[1080] A lot of people who are billionaires invented a great thing.

[1081] And people attack Jeff Bezos and all this.

[1082] And I've probably said things too.

[1083] I ordered two things from Amazon that I absolutely need for tomorrow today.

[1084] Yes, of course.

[1085] So I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say, but I can say, and I would hope that Bezos and the others would agree with this, we probably should put a little more into the kitty.

[1086] We're doing pretty damn well.

[1087] Why don't we do that?

[1088] I agree.

[1089] If they have no other interests in not being attacked at some point with pitchforks, they should do that.

[1090] Because they'll only take so much.

[1091] The gap can only get so wide before people are like, fuck this.

[1092] Fuck this.

[1093] Put me on that spaceship to Mars.

[1094] Michael Moore, I adore you.

[1095] I sincerely adore you.

[1096] I also just have to say, I probably quote where to invade next more than any movie I've seen in the last 30 years.

[1097] It comes up nonstop.

[1098] That was such a fun exploration.

[1099] And one of my great frustrations is the arrogance by which you wouldn't look at other places, see what they've tried that's worked, and then take it.

[1100] It's crazy to me. So I just, I loved that movie.

[1101] I hope everyone watches it.

[1102] And I also want to remind everyone all the thoughtfulness and intense.

[1103] intelligence and storytelling you heard just now is available on Rumble, your podcast.

[1104] Just think of the old outsider's parking lot fight, Rumble in the classic sense.

[1105] And then also you have a newsletter, Substack.

[1106] And I do have a quick question about that.

[1107] So your podcast is going wonderfully.

[1108] You have millions of millions of downloads.

[1109] You must be having fun doing that as we just had fun.

[1110] We love to chat.

[1111] Why do Substack?

[1112] Is it a way to follow more the trail?

[1113] No, I'm a writer, and Substack is for writers.

[1114] And I have these thoughts and ideas, and I just say, I don't want to do a 280 character tweet.

[1115] This needs just a little bit more attention to it.

[1116] And I love writing satire.

[1117] So every now and then I get on Substack, I get to write something where some people write and go, is this real?

[1118] Do you really believe this?

[1119] And I love that.

[1120] I love humor.

[1121] So that gives me a chance to write it.

[1122] I love writing.

[1123] My mom taught me to write when I was four years old.

[1124] She'd get out the Flint Journal and she'd start with that little weather.

[1125] box on the front page.

[1126] Then she went to sports scores, box scores.

[1127] And that's how I learned to read because my mom did that.

[1128] It was a great gift in life.

[1129] So yes, that's why I do the substack.

[1130] I just started it here in August, and I've had a lot of fun with it.

[1131] The podcast started almost two years ago, and we just had our 30 millionth download on the podcast.

[1132] That's so awesome.

[1133] Congratulations.

[1134] It's not as much as yours and others, but that's huge.

[1135] Are you kidding?

[1136] But it's pretty, it is huge.

[1137] And you think of, like, that's 30 million hours.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] Well, yeah.

[1140] I think of it as I got to sit in a room and talk with Robert De Niro, and he talked for over an hour.

[1141] That doesn't happen.

[1142] No. That's an impossibility on this planet.

[1143] Well, Monica, I hope you have fun cutting out all the wrong things that we said.

[1144] The d 'Agg said.

[1145] No, well, both of us.

[1146] It'll be quite the fact check.

[1147] That's for sure.

[1148] well michael i'm truly proud to call you a fellow countryman and michigander that's what i mean and i hope i bump into you at a cherry festival someday that would be great all right well uh love to you be well thank you and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate monica badman that's cute like what rob's doing is he's like he's got a costume he wears the doctor to elicit his much sympathy as possible, which is really clever.

[1149] I like that, yeah.

[1150] Do you do anything special, Ma 'am, before you go to the doc?

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] No, I'm, like, inherently pretty sympathetic.

[1153] I would say so, yeah, yeah.

[1154] You're a miniature person.

[1155] Well, just a small person.

[1156] That's true.

[1157] My parents really like going to Indian doctors.

[1158] Oh, they do.

[1159] Yeah, I think they feel...

[1160] Similar?

[1161] They can have some sort of rapport.

[1162] Yeah.

[1163] And also, maybe they think, like...

[1164] They got some Aravadic, like...

[1165] No, my dad doesn't believe in any of that.

[1166] No, no, but what your dad would believe in, and I encourage you to get him on the phone.

[1167] In fact, I'd bet probably a million dollars about this, that your father will have the same opinion I have that, although the explanation for why it works might not be physically true, just the mere fact of them documenting millions of people for a thousand years, you do learn how to interrupt patterns.

[1168] Now, whether you can explain how you actually interrupted or not is kind of irrelevant.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] But I bet your father does appreciate, recognize, and respect the amount of anecdotal data that's been accumulated for a thousand years.

[1171] Well, also, you know, you know how everyone has, like, five stories?

[1172] One of his stories is about that.

[1173] He had, like, some face disease.

[1174] Okay.

[1175] Not a face disease, but, like, some...

[1176] Something dermatitis.

[1177] Some warty type of thing.

[1178] Oh, great.

[1179] Hypoplasia, maybe.

[1180] And he couldn't get rid of it, couldn't get rid of it, couldn't get rid of it, kept going to the doctor.

[1181] They tried, you know, then he, then some...

[1182] Someone told him you've got to go to this one guy and it was an Ayurbalist or something.

[1183] Oh, okay.

[1184] Ayurvedic doctor.

[1185] And this was all in India.

[1186] Really quick, say it again.

[1187] You know, I really butcher it.

[1188] Ayurvedic.

[1189] It's Ayurvah.

[1190] I don't really know if I'm saying it right, but I think I am saying it more right than you.

[1191] While we're registering complaints against the Ayurvedaics, who did save me from my rheumatoid arthritis, I will say, guys, pick, like an easier thing for me to say.

[1192] Just one more no. They're not going to make it more American for you.

[1193] Look, they don't have to.

[1194] But if they want to franchise it, like McDonald's, they might want to.

[1195] They just call it A -V.

[1196] It's why no one went and saw Zathura.

[1197] They were afraid to step up to the ticket counter and go, four tickets for Zat -Zatura.

[1198] And they were like, fuck it.

[1199] Let's go see the other movie.

[1200] That would have been a good ding, ding, ding for next time's fact check.

[1201] Oh, but not this time.

[1202] Oopsie.

[1203] Ooh, that's a good little hint, though.

[1204] It is.

[1205] There's also another hint.

[1206] I wonder if I should say it.

[1207] Oh, my God.

[1208] You're being so flirty.

[1209] Because I almost, we almost did two fact checks today.

[1210] And so I rushed to do something today so that there could be a ding, ding, ding.

[1211] But actually, we're not going to do the fact check till tomorrow.

[1212] But I made a stew.

[1213] I don't even get that reference.

[1214] You don't?

[1215] Anyway, next week I'm going to be talking about a delicious stew.

[1216] And so everyone should get excited.

[1217] And it's also a ding, ding, ding.

[1218] And also is a thorough.

[1219] Anyway.

[1220] Before we move on from Wordplay, for some reason.

[1221] in this last week, I've had so many wordplays pop into my head.

[1222] I have a note folder currently of just like book titles, just sayings.

[1223] Oh my gosh.

[1224] So much wordplay.

[1225] They keep popping in my head and I keep jotting them down.

[1226] One of them was developed with you, which is simpler time.

[1227] Now, I'm afraid to even say that out loud, because I don't want someone to steal it.

[1228] Simpler times, S -I -M is in caps.

[1229] It's about the sim.

[1230] The sim plur times.

[1231] But before the sim.

[1232] before we knew about the same.

[1233] Yeah, yeah.

[1234] But living in oblivion before we discovered it.

[1235] It's a really good wordplay.

[1236] Thank you.

[1237] There's more where that came from.

[1238] You want to hear another one?

[1239] Sure.

[1240] I'm not going to give this one away because I want us to do this as a podcast.

[1241] Oh, okay, what?

[1242] Knit it and quit it.

[1243] You wanted to be about knitting?

[1244] Yeah, there's so many people that knit and are super into knitting.

[1245] But what are they going to talk about?

[1246] I'm bored of those people.

[1247] Well, because you're not a knitter, nor am I. But you can't come up with a name like knit it and quit it and not use it.

[1248] Okay, well, how about, How about this?

[1249] How about you come up with an actual podcast that's good?

[1250] I wrote this down.

[1251] Oh, my gosh.

[1252] Because Michael Moore, that's what we're doing.

[1253] This is for real I want to do.

[1254] You said something about automotive espionage, like way back when.

[1255] Right.

[1256] And I'm like, that's a cool story.

[1257] Mm -hmm.

[1258] I think it would have to probably be more broadly like industrial espionage.

[1259] Okay.

[1260] You know, because currently China's got, they have been caught numerous times by the CIA and, NSA, they've infiltrated every company.

[1261] Just like they've infiltrated the Pentagon and shit with hackers, they've infiltrated many of the huge corporations that have really valuable IP.

[1262] Okay.

[1263] It's like a state activity.

[1264] Other countries that want emerging technology do invest heavily in industrial espionage.

[1265] That's factual.

[1266] I know you're getting so scared right now, but that, oh, I got a little, a little bored.

[1267] You know, I was just thinking, it doesn't take much to lose you, man. It doesn't.

[1268] It was like three sentences.

[1269] I know.

[1270] Sorry.

[1271] Well, because I was actually thinking of it more of like that podcast we liked about the song, Wins of Change.

[1272] Wins of change.

[1273] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1274] Where it's like telling the story of that.

[1275] I feel you were more thinking of it as like a 12 episode thing.

[1276] Exactly.

[1277] And I don't think like that.

[1278] I know.

[1279] You think like the BBC and I think like NBC.

[1280] That's right.

[1281] You want it to go on forever.

[1282] But I'm just thinking that would be a cool story to tell of all of that automotive espionage that was happening with GM at the time and all of that.

[1283] Yes.

[1284] Yes, yes, yes.

[1285] That would be cool.

[1286] Anyway, so Dibbs, TM, TM is trademark.

[1287] Oh, trademark.

[1288] But did we talk about DeLorean at all in this episode?

[1289] I can't remember.

[1290] Because, you know, they've done a whole, like, I don't know, five or ten part docu -series, just about John DeLorean.

[1291] Remember that Karin fucking Back to the Future, the DeLorean?

[1292] That comes from John DeLorean, who was at one time an engineer and then a marketing.

[1293] Maybe he was just marketing, but he invented basically the GTO at General Motors, which was a very high -powered light car.

[1294] and I've invented this category for GM and it became wildly successful and then he rose through the ranks and he was quite high up but he had developed this cachet because Detroit was more like Silicon Valley then he was buddy, I lost you No, I did, I did, I did, I did, I did.

[1295] Only for half a second but I'm here, I'm here, I promised.

[1296] He became like best buddies with Johnny Carson.

[1297] Oh, that was cool.

[1298] Like, I think that really says everything about the context of the automotive industry is that, like, the head of General Motors right now isn't going to become best friends with Jimmy Fallon.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] It doesn't have that cachet.

[1301] But someone from Silicon Valley probably is best friends with Jimmy Fallon.

[1302] I mean, Bill Gates is best friends with us.

[1303] Precisely.

[1304] That's right.

[1305] So anyways, DeLorean had like a supermodal wife.

[1306] He hung out with Johnny Carson.

[1307] He was this big baller and decided to launch that company.

[1308] It's a crazy story.

[1309] Well, that was episode one of the podcast that we're going to do about automotive espionage.

[1310] So I just want you to come up with.

[1311] with a good name for that podcast since you're writing down names and stuff.

[1312] And I'm going to probably Knicks knitted and quit it.

[1313] Okay, I'm going to start another organization.

[1314] You're going to head up a podcast on knitting.

[1315] Yeah, because you know why?

[1316] That's our jump in the shark moment.

[1317] No. There are, would be my guess, there are more knitters in America than armcheries.

[1318] Just because there are more of something doesn't mean it's interesting to listen to.

[1319] For them, it would be hugely interested and I like the notion of like giving people are a reverent take on now knitting.

[1320] There's like all these knitters and they're not grandmas and they probably feel like grandmas.

[1321] They're like Laura and Kristen.

[1322] Maybe they want like a punk rock thing, you know?

[1323] Just full ASMR.

[1324] Fucking A could be that.

[1325] I don't know.

[1326] But that doesn't make any noise.

[1327] It doesn't even make noise knitting.

[1328] That's how boring it is.

[1329] You know what you're doing it?

[1330] I got a new podcast idea.

[1331] Shit on it and quit on it.

[1332] Okay.

[1333] I'd rather do that.

[1334] I'd much rather do that.

[1335] Sounds way more interesting.

[1336] Anywho, back to Ayurvedic.

[1337] Oh, my God.

[1338] That's where we started?

[1339] My dad had warts.

[1340] Let's not call them.

[1341] Let's call it a hypoplasia.

[1342] Some advanced cell growth on the dermis.

[1343] Anyway, he was urged to go to this guy, this special guy, and he's very skeptical.

[1344] And I guess what else do I have left?

[1345] And came right off.

[1346] I have a crazy question.

[1347] So you know how herpes simplex one and...

[1348] It wasn't herpes.

[1349] No, no, no, no. Bear with me. If I can hold your attention for six seconds, I'll try to get it out.

[1350] There's herpes simplex one and two, and some are on your mouth and some are on your genitalia.

[1351] It might be that your father had pussy pacidermis on his face.

[1352] No. What did we decide pussy pacidermis was?

[1353] Thick skin.

[1354] Extra thick skin on the vulva.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Right.

[1357] Right.

[1358] So if that's a condition one can have and their genitals, like herpes, why can it also be on the face?

[1359] Remember when you didn't want it to be warts?

[1360] And now you're saying it's pussy packadermis of the face?

[1361] That's way worse.

[1362] No, it's not.

[1363] If it do gets caught in public and you're like, bro, you got some pussy on your face.

[1364] That guy's like, oh, thanks for looking out.

[1365] And then you kind of feel cool.

[1366] See, Rob already feels flattered.

[1367] He's over there.

[1368] He's over there.

[1369] He hates this.

[1370] He loves it.

[1371] Hey, Rob, bro, you got some pussy in your face.

[1372] And Monica's here.

[1373] So just, you know, clean that up.

[1374] That is so much worse than Rob, Rob, you have warts all over.

[1375] your face monica's here all of that is just it's uncouth like you shouldn't ever call out someone for stuff on their face totally agree step one totally agreed but if you had the option of one of your best girlfriends telling you money you got a little dick on your face or money you got warts on your face what would you pick i think come on this is a no brain it's not a no brainer it's not like this isn't a what are you talking about because evidence is of dick on your face would be like you had a great a wild night yeah but it would also be like I'm I'm irresponsible like I didn't clean up my face whereas well look you were evidence of dick too is that you don't get no no no no no guys it's not an ejaculate no guys maybe some marks were like there was some light smacking on the cheeks or something I don't who knows what happened point is it's the only argument I'm making is almost everything's preferential to warts all right okay okay all right we can just wrap it up there I'll put a pin in it this is a little bit of a ding ding ding because I do have an issue going on with my ear it's not warts but it's bad you know what I think it might be it's not cauliflower ear no anus maxidermis which again can exist on the earlobe as well as the anus anus maxidermis I have earrings I have earrings in my cartilage The top of my ear, I got my ears pierced And it's, it's rough It's too far gone Don't zoom in on any of these pictures We've been taking and look at it, guys Listen, why we all love you, why I love you for certain And why we connect so much You're so fucking stubborn It's amazing, it's amazing, it's amazing I'm an optimist, that's what I said last episode And I'm sticking by it Like I will, I'll have like two diaries in a day And then you start panicking like You'll start hitting me like Where are you at with your electrolytes?

[1376] You're the electrolyte, police, right?

[1377] And you start panicking about my electrolytes, and I appreciate the attention and the concern.

[1378] But you have a full -blown double whammy infection, two holes, both sides.

[1379] Like, you have four infections going on your ear right now, and you're still on the fence about whether you want me to cut out that fucking earring.

[1380] I just think it's on its way to getting better.

[1381] It's not.

[1382] I just looked at it.

[1383] It's a fucking mess.

[1384] You have anus maximus on your earlobe, and we got to get rid of it like ASAP.

[1385] This isn't for an Irovedic Some herbs aren't going to clear this up I got to get in there with the fucking wire cutters And get that thing out of your ear Can I ask you to cover your ears real quick Like literally I'm going to ask you to plug your ears So I'm going to tell Rob something I'm going to do After I cut it out And it can be a surprise to you when you're editing But if you hear it You're not going to let me do the operation Well then I'm fucking not going to let you do the operation Already Fuck it, I'll tell it to you I'm going to smell it when I pull it out No, fuck no It's not doing it I won't I won't But I'm going to tell you, it's going to be so hard for me not to because I'm so curious.

[1386] I have to cut all this is horrible.

[1387] No, you don't.

[1388] This is horrible.

[1389] There's a couple of fan pages I really like on Instagram.

[1390] One is armcherry companion.

[1391] One's arm cherry direct.

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] They asked the people on Armcherry Direct to say their favorite stories that have ever been told on the podcast.

[1394] I don't know if we've isolated a certain subset of armcheries or if it's broadly, this is how armcheries are.

[1395] But I promise you, there isn't a single story people suggested that wasn't one of the poop stories.

[1396] All of them.

[1397] They're all the poop stories.

[1398] And I thought, we're always panicked that like, we're getting too gross.

[1399] So I was shocked to see that and relieved and encouraged.

[1400] Well, one day we're going to cross a boundary.

[1401] I know it.

[1402] And I'm, you know, I'm scared of that.

[1403] Don't let us know.

[1404] All right.

[1405] So we're inching.

[1406] We're inching with the smell.

[1407] Well, we like to get right up to that line.

[1408] We sure do.

[1409] Tap dance all around.

[1410] Sure do.

[1411] Speaking of, that is a ding, ding, ding, and a pivot, ding ding, but I keep the, I keep the abortion conversation in.

[1412] Which, oh, you do.

[1413] Mm -hmm.

[1414] Am I going to get fucking slaughtered?

[1415] I don't think so.

[1416] You were just saying that we need more compromise as a nation.

[1417] And does one exist for that, I guess?

[1418] And I kept it because one important point I think you made is we're always talking about the top five scariest conversations.

[1419] And, like, we're starting these debates with these, like, hot button issues.

[1420] And it's hard because you can't get past them.

[1421] And so how do we figure out what we're aligned on?

[1422] So anyway, I keep it.

[1423] And that's the end of the podcast.

[1424] You guys, it was so great on this ride.

[1425] We can't tell you guys that it's good to have discourse and then for me to edit out discourse.

[1426] That's true.

[1427] I can't do that ethically.

[1428] The reason it's so murky is, of course, I am a man telling my opinion about this, which is already problematic and I recognize.

[1429] And nor do I think that I or any other male or any other woman should have a right to decide what another woman does.

[1430] Yes.

[1431] I firmly believe that.

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] So I have a new notebook.

[1434] Yeah, stylish.

[1435] I would like to give credit to the woman who actually perfectly diagnosed the brilliance of your stories.

[1436] Oh, sure.

[1437] And Armcherry, Jacqueline wrote in the comment section that Monica's stories are Seinfeld -esque.

[1438] Yeah.

[1439] And I was like, boom, bullseye bingo.

[1440] That's exactly what they are.

[1441] They're so mundane and they're so riveting and there's so many payoffs and setups that all come together.

[1442] And she fucking nailed it.

[1443] And I said I was angry at her, kind of.

[1444] Because I should have seen it.

[1445] It was right there.

[1446] You wanted to have that moment.

[1447] Congratulations, Jacqueline.

[1448] Good job.

[1449] Okay, I'm going to hop into some facts.

[1450] Okay.

[1451] And your father has pussy peccadermis and you have anus maximus.

[1452] You can say that about me, but I don't want you to say that about him.

[1453] Oh, but you can say that he has warts all over his face.

[1454] That's my dad.

[1455] This is another great pattern of ours, actually.

[1456] I was saying the reason.

[1457] and I felt so compelled that I had to get you a car as a gift as I had driven your car and I thought it was a shit box and you got so defensive and you kind of argued about it and then you were forced to drive your car for a while because the tire was flat on the bends and you said to me boy man you were right that car is such a noisy piece of shit and then I go I know that and I said and you go it's a good car I know you flipped right away I thought you were inviting me to join you and then you flip it I was trying to give you a little bit but then you I got greedy yeah you got greedy You got a little too greedy It sounds like the windows are down even when they're up I guess that's the best way I can say Or maybe even that the doors are fully open But let me just say I can't vote more for a Toyota And people from Detroit will fucking hate me for saying that And increasingly Detroit is making that stuff But just for the last 20 years man If you want to buy a car that's going to last a long long time That fucking pre -issue got man Windows open or closed You could drive that car another 300 ,000 miles Couldn't be more dependable And my marketing teacher in 11th 11th grade, Mr. Nelson told me the number one thing that employers look for in employees, dependability, reliability, reliability.

[1458] And that's two things right there.

[1459] That car has in spades.

[1460] That's right.

[1461] Bing, ding, ding.

[1462] I was asked, and I don't know why or how, but I was asked to be a part of Dwayne Wade's Happy Birthday video.

[1463] Oh, cool.

[1464] Oh, my God.

[1465] I'm so jealous.

[1466] So this is the video I made.

[1467] When you watch it, will you hold the speaker to the, But by the way, I don't even think it'll be that fun for anyone, but just I want you to see it.

[1468] Okay.

[1469] I'm flattered to actually wish you a happy birthday, but unfortunately I'm going to probably deviate from how most people wish to you happy birthday.

[1470] I bet most people in your life are nice and generous and selfless, and they want you to have something great.

[1471] I don't, that's not for me. I want us to have something great for your birthday.

[1472] And so my wish for you on this glorious day that we should all be rejoiced.

[1473] that you entered planet Earth.

[1474] I want this year for us to find ourselves in a spades game together.

[1475] In fact, I've dealt out the hands and, you can see, there's four hands.

[1476] And so this is my hand.

[1477] Let's see what I got.

[1478] Oh, dang.

[1479] Oh, oh, dang.

[1480] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, baby.

[1481] I'm going, I'm going nil on this.

[1482] Uh -huh.

[1483] You got to got me on this.

[1484] See what your hand is?

[1485] Hmm.

[1486] Birthday boy, what's he got?

[1487] Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's good.

[1488] Oh, that'll protect some.

[1489] Oh, and the ace is in there?

[1490] Another.

[1491] Oh, wow.

[1492] Oh, shit.

[1493] Oh, my God.

[1494] And eight was top nine spades?

[1495] Holy shit.

[1496] We going nil 10 for your birthday.

[1497] I'm not shocked.

[1498] Can you imagine being at his party in that big age?

[1499] Did you plan the cards?

[1500] Of course.

[1501] Oh.

[1502] Yeah.

[1503] Oh my God, you did.

[1504] That's great.

[1505] But, A, I can't imagine I made the cut, because I'm sure everyone else's video is, like, well -produced and everyone looked good in it, and I looked terrible.

[1506] And it was Robbie Gamey's like, today's the deadline.

[1507] I made that at 11 .28 p .m. Right?

[1508] I'm panicked, bad lighting.

[1509] I look ugly, but I got this idea.

[1510] I did it.

[1511] And then I did imagine if it had made his birthday video, which I can't imagine it did.

[1512] Anyone in the room who doesn't play Spades is like, this is the worst birthday message I've ever seen.

[1513] like what is he taught but if you do play that was great and i really thought it was real and i'm a little disappointed it was a birthday wish monica no but like i thought it was simpler time anyway that's fun okay anyway um michael more do they make lazy boys in grand rapids Lazy Boys World Headquarters is located in Monroe, Michigan.

[1514] Oh, Monroe.

[1515] That's the site of the humongous nuclear reactor that we have in Michigan.

[1516] Oh, cool.

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] It's a zero waste to landfill certified sustainable building.

[1519] That's cool.

[1520] Also, I mean, there were like 7 ,000 facts set on this episode, so.

[1521] He and I kind of shared that, kind of just spout and shit off.

[1522] We read 10 years ago, characteristic, I think.

[1523] So I for sure missed some, but I did the best I could.

[1524] Are tomatoes indigenous to North America?

[1525] He said that they're indigenous to North America.

[1526] Can I just say really quick?

[1527] Uh -huh.

[1528] Not positive, I believe that.

[1529] I know Mays is indigenous to the Americas, and I know there's a couple other tubers, but I don't know if I believe that.

[1530] Go ahead.

[1531] Yeah, I was skeptical of that, but it's not indigenous to Italy.

[1532] Of course, that's the main thing everyone asks.

[1533] Or Europe, for that matter, the tomato was first.

[1534] quote, discovered by the Spanish conquistadors while exploring and then conquering the Americas.

[1535] Oh, my God.

[1536] Hoisted by my own.

[1537] He was right.

[1538] I'm glad.

[1539] I mean, I'm not glad that you're hoisted, but I'm glad he was right.

[1540] Now, there was great debate in my family because my deceased stepfather, Dave Barton, who I love so much.

[1541] And he was such an intelligent guy, electrical engineer.

[1542] And he used to say hoisted by your own pittard a lot.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] And there was a debate about what that meant.

[1545] It's Shakespearean in origin.

[1546] Oh.

[1547] In his research, which God knows if I trust it, was something about that it's actually being caught in the fog of your own fart.

[1548] That is what he said.

[1549] Okay.

[1550] This is the origin.

[1551] Hoist with his own pittard is a phrase from a speech in Hamlet.

[1552] That has become proverbial.

[1553] The phrase's meaning is that a bomb maker is lifted off the ground with his own bomb and indicates an ironic reversal or poetic justice.

[1554] Well, that's a great metaphor.

[1555] for it is if like you're stuck in your own fart smell is the same as like being blown up in your own bomb so god damn it barton good on you well he he made it his own but it definitely in hamlet was not talking about farts he armchair expert it and i appreciate it um okay how big is the gm proving grounds this says 4 ,000 acres great i think there's 600 acres in a square mile you could look that up how many acres 4 ,000 this says 4 ,000 Hmm.

[1556] Do you think that's low or high?

[1557] It feels a little low to me, but maybe not.

[1558] It says equivalent of 132 miles.

[1559] That feels right to me. That's a lot.

[1560] I mean, that's big.

[1561] That's what it equals.

[1562] Oh, because I thought there was 600, 640 acres in one square mile.

[1563] Oh, good.

[1564] I got pretty close.

[1565] That was close.

[1566] Thanks for, thanks for acknowledging it when I force you to acknowledge it.

[1567] Um, he said Chevrolet, well, okay, he was saying that people used to come to Detroit.

[1568] Like they would come to Silicon Valley.

[1569] Exactly.

[1570] And he said, you know, Chevrolet is in an American name.

[1571] It's a, that's a French guy.

[1572] But it's not.

[1573] It's actually a Swiss, Swiss name.

[1574] Yeah.

[1575] Bless your heart.

[1576] Yeah, that was a cough.

[1577] I know.

[1578] But anytime you do anything, I'm going to bless your heart.

[1579] Okay.

[1580] Especially if you toot.

[1581] It's going to be a triple blessing of your heart if I get to hear one of those suckers.

[1582] You're never hearing that.

[1583] I'm never hoisting by my own petard.

[1584] Yeah, so that's Swiss, not French.

[1585] Okay.

[1586] Although easy mistake, because it does sound French.

[1587] It sure does.

[1588] Anytime that tease on there that you're not saying it, boy, you're in the French world then.

[1589] Ballette.

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] No, not Schover.

[1592] Ballette.

[1593] Shallet.

[1594] shall I?

[1595] Oh, I was going to say There is shall it.

[1596] But that's, yeah.

[1597] That's from the Americas, though.

[1598] Just like the tomato.

[1599] Okay.

[1600] Larry from Google, he said he thinks is from Huntington Woods.

[1601] He's born in Lansing.

[1602] Oh, as was I. You're kind of, if you're from the Detroit area, I want to say I might have been born in Lansing.

[1603] So we don't know if he was from Huntington Woods, I guess.

[1604] Like if he lit, well, let's see, hold on, early life and education.

[1605] Born in Lansing, Michigan.

[1606] Went to University of Michigan.

[1607] That's not saying.

[1608] You're getting frustrated.

[1609] Yeah, it's likely then.

[1610] Excuse me. I have a toothpick in there.

[1611] I know.

[1612] Man, something crazy happened to me yesterday.

[1613] What?

[1614] Every time I swallowed, it felt like there was something stuck.

[1615] Sure.

[1616] Is it still there?

[1617] No. And then I woke up and I was fine, but nothing was stuck.

[1618] Like, I could swallow, but it was like there was a, bulb in there.

[1619] Well, do you know, Kristen and I sometimes, I've stopped even questioning it, but she often thinks she swallows her pill at night and it's stuck in her throat.

[1620] Oh, I don't have that.

[1621] But you do take pills at night.

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] But it wasn't after you're...

[1624] No, no. It was starting at like 1 .30 and it went through the night.

[1625] Like through the night, I kept swallowing to test it.

[1626] And it was weird.

[1627] And this is on the heels of discovering you have an arm tumor.

[1628] So it must have been rattling.

[1629] A law was happening yesterday.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] Which she does not.

[1633] That's her, just everyone.

[1634] That's her diagnosis of it.

[1635] That's not a, don't worry about Monica.

[1636] She hasn't gone to the doctor and wasn't told she has an arm tumor.

[1637] I don't have an arm tumor.

[1638] I don't have the bulbous throat.

[1639] And I don't have an ear infection.

[1640] You have an enormous, you have four ear.

[1641] You're right.

[1642] You don't have an ear infection.

[1643] You have four ear infections.

[1644] So you're right.

[1645] We agree.

[1646] You're going to get hoisted by your fucking retard if you let that thing fucking go.

[1647] Like you're, can I just remind you of something?

[1648] Yeah.

[1649] You're in the business.

[1650] of wearing headphones.

[1651] You're wearing headphones because you really need to hear for your job.

[1652] You're fucking with like the main thing of your craft right now.

[1653] Look, if I lost this ear, I would, it'd probably make my other ear even sharper.

[1654] No. Okay.

[1655] You're going to take it out and it'll be fine, but I am sad.

[1656] About?

[1657] I'm just, I don't know if I'll be able to get, if I'll be able to repierce them and then I really like them.

[1658] Yeah.

[1659] See, you, you.

[1660] You and I do, this is where we diverge a little bit.

[1661] We compute the world a little bit differently.

[1662] Yeah.

[1663] I generally try to work backwards.

[1664] So it's like that's great that that's your desire.

[1665] But I work backwards from, can you leave these in my ear?

[1666] Like, can I leave these in my ear?

[1667] I start there.

[1668] Can I leave them in my, no, you cannot leave those in your ear.

[1669] Like that's just, you can't.

[1670] They're wildly infected.

[1671] You can't fucking leave them in your ears.

[1672] So before you evaluate, How badly you want those, you have to start with, can I?

[1673] Yeah, no, you're right.

[1674] But I do say can I. And, you know, I've seen it go through a lot of change.

[1675] Oh, my God.

[1676] I mean, you might go septic.

[1677] This is, I don't know.

[1678] I don't even want to talk about it anymore.

[1679] Okay, fine.

[1680] Okay.

[1681] Mind you, you can't sleep at night because my electrolytes.

[1682] And you've got gangrene on your fucking ear.

[1683] And I'm trying to save your life.

[1684] And you're worried about my electrolytes.

[1685] Please proceed.

[1686] Your electrolytes are bad a lot of the times.

[1687] And your petard stinks.

[1688] And you're fucking hoisted by it.

[1689] You're like 80 feet off the ground right now from your stank.

[1690] Okay.

[1691] Simpsons Homer.

[1692] He said he belonged to like the woodcutters or something.

[1693] It was like an Elks club.

[1694] Yeah, yeah.

[1695] The Springfield BPOE was a branch of the benevolent and protective order of Elks, a social club.

[1696] So it wasn't woodcutters.

[1697] It was BPOE.

[1698] Oh, okay.

[1699] And there's like a lot more that I'm going to skip.

[1700] Because it was so long.

[1701] Yeah, it was just long.

[1702] This was really one of.

[1703] I can't tell if it's objective, but this has been so fun, this fact.

[1704] Oh, yeah.

[1705] Oh, I thought you meant the episode.

[1706] No, well, I do want to just say he's a sweetheart.

[1707] I know he's a very polarizing person, though.

[1708] Yeah.

[1709] But he is a sweet human being that really wants other human beings to have better lives.

[1710] And you could totally disagree with his approach to that, but you got to recognize that.

[1711] I totally agree.

[1712] He's done so much for so many people and really cares about humans.

[1713] He works his ass off at it.

[1714] You know, again, yeah, exactly.

[1715] I totally disagree with him on some components of capitalism, I think.

[1716] But at the same time, I'm not doing a tenth of what he does to make the world better.

[1717] So who the fuck can I, you know.

[1718] And like requiring that Warner Brother, like, whoever took that movie needed to give money to those people.

[1719] Like, it's just, it's really.

[1720] He has integrity.

[1721] Yeah, most people wouldn't do that, including me or you.

[1722] That's right.

[1723] All right.

[1724] That's it.

[1725] Don't want it to end.

[1726] I love you.

[1727] Well, I'll see you tomorrow.

[1728] Oh, okay.

[1729] And we'll talk about the stew.

[1730] Oh, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

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