#675 - Kirik Jenness & Chris Palmquist

[0] All right, we're live.

[1] That's it.

[2] You don't have to do, Chris.

[3] Don't worry about it.

[4] All right.

[5] Carrick, Chris, what's going on, guys?

[6] Are you paying attention?

[7] What are you doing?

[8] Hello, Chris.

[9] Yeah, I'm good.

[10] What are you doing?

[11] Checking your email?

[12] We're alive.

[13] There's a million people.

[14] That's fucking Christ.

[15] Let me see my Facebook.

[16] Oh, I got a like on that picture.

[17] I get one here.

[18] You guys are the head, the owners of my favorite all -time website for mixed martial arts.

[19] It's changed names three or four times since I've been a member.

[20] Submissionfighting.

[21] com back in the day, right?

[22] What was the original?

[23] The original, well, I grabbed a bunch of URLs before the sport really had a name.

[24] That would have been 95 -ish or so.

[25] One of the ones we grabbed was submissionfighting .com.

[26] I asked the guys at the gym out of submissionfighting .com, mixed martial arts.

[27] And a few other ones, what they like.

[28] They said, submissionfighting .com.

[29] So we ran with that for a few years.

[30] But I would get outraged emails from people saying this is not what I was expecting.

[31] And what they wanted was one of those sort of porno apartment wrestling kind of sites.

[32] and then my mother said she would tell her friends what I was up to and she'd say what's the URL and she'd say submissionfighting .com and she'd get long looks from them so after my mother started complaining I changed it to mixed martial arts .com then the UFC switched to UFC TV so we became MMA TV and then the UFC dropped the TV so we went back to mixed martial arts .com and that's where we are forever although somebody offered us they offered they didn't complete 600 grand for mixed martial arts .com and we would have dropped it in a heartbeat for that and going back to MMA TV.

[33] Why didn't you take it?

[34] We did take it.

[35] They didn't come through with the money.

[36] Oh, they changed.

[37] Yeah.

[38] Jesus Christ.

[39] It's all yours.

[40] 600 grand?

[41] $600 ,000.

[42] That's insane.

[43] Wow.

[44] Didn't business .com go for like $7 million bucks or something crazy like that?

[45] Yeah.

[46] What the fuck, man?

[47] That's a lot of goddamn scratch.

[48] The one that kills me, though, is I turned down MMA .com for $200 at the time.

[49] Because it was of the sport really wasn't mixed martial arts.

[50] It's like people called it that But MMA wasn't really a thing yet It was the main mall association And they had let it lapse And for 200 bucks I could have grabbed it I'm like, yeah, $200, it's a lot of money What year was this?

[51] 99 maybe, 98, 99, 97 somewhere in there Do you remember what year it became called Mixed Martial Arts?

[52] The whole sport?

[53] I would, I mean, I would date that to when everybody got together when Nick Lembo got everybody together in New Jersey and came up with the Unified Rules, which would have been 2000 -ish, and that's when the name sort of started to stick.

[54] But they were calling it that.

[55] Didn't Big John McCarthy name it?

[56] I have heard a variety of, I've heard a variety of explanations for where the name came from, and I honestly don't know.

[57] I don't think there's anyone that's definitive.

[58] I'm pretty sure I heard Big John say that he named it.

[59] It was either him or it was Jeff Blatnick.

[60] I've heard Jeff say it, yeah.

[61] More than once, Jeff has said that he coined the term.

[62] I'm going to have to ask Big John, because he's up at San Diego with us, so we get back on and see if he claims that.

[63] What is going on in San Diego?

[64] Kirk and myself are up there for a convention.

[65] It's the Association of Athletic Commissions.

[66] It's a blast.

[67] It's all the athletic commissions in the country come together for a year and drink and just pretty much talk to each other about the issues that are going on and their ACs and they try to...

[68] Well, obviously not for a year.

[69] How long is it go for?

[70] No, sorry, they come together every year.

[71] Once a year.

[72] Yes.

[73] It's like a weak event for them.

[74] And they just go over rules and shit like that?

[75] It sounds a little, there's a huge amount of socializing, and it sounds a little, that's trivializing it.

[76] The thing is the Association of Boxing Commissions was formed by a federal law, the Muhammad Ali Act, but that law has no teeth.

[77] There's no penalties if you don't pay any attention to suspensions and just nothing happens.

[78] So the whole association is basically built on goodwill.

[79] So there's an awful lot of just people getting to know each other and having a beer and Chris often acts as a bartender and gets to know people that way.

[80] And it sounds like it's a little trivial just to get to know people, but it's actually the glue that holds the whole ABC together.

[81] So that's how it holds together, like say if somebody gets banned in, say, Mississippi, they keep them banned in Massachusetts, things along those lines.

[82] That's it exactly.

[83] The Muhammad Ali Act says that requires, federal law, requires that boxing commissions share suspension information.

[84] So you can't get knocked out in Boston and then the next weekend go up to.

[85] to New Hampshire and get knocked out again and then go to Maine and get knocked out again.

[86] Which used to be a real problem.

[87] Oh yeah, it still is a real problem in places like Mexico.

[88] Mexico doesn't hand out suspension, so guys just literally will, because they're poor.

[89] They'll get knocked out every weekend.

[90] And their opponent, you know, everybody's bogged the way MMA is built on fair fights from the beginning, but boxing's built on tomato cans.

[91] And so there's a huge market for fighters that just lose, and they get knocked out all the time in Mexico.

[92] Right, like that guy that fought Mickey Rourke in Russia.

[93] He has this insane losing record.

[94] And he's homeless somewhere around here, actually.

[95] Yeah, Pasadena.

[96] A guy who lives in the streets, and his job is basically to show up and get knocked unconscious.

[97] And didn't even do a good job of it.

[98] That was bizarre.

[99] It's bizarre that those things still happen.

[100] Did you see the one in Mexico?

[101] The politician that is the fake muscles?

[102] The guy with a huge chest.

[103] Yeah, that was absolutely bizarre.

[104] No, I don't think I've seen it.

[105] You need to see it.

[106] We'll play it for you.

[107] It's a box match.

[108] You kind of call it a boxing match.

[109] It's a guy who has synthol injected it to his arms and chest and his shoulders.

[110] You know that synthal stuff?

[111] If you don't know, people are listening to this, synthal is something that I guess bodybuilders created it because if they had a body part that wasn't sticking out enough that wasn't symmetrical, like say some guys, their calves don't grow very well, so they would have these big upper body, these big leg, but their calves would be skinny.

[112] So they would inject this oil into their calves, It makes your muscle swell up, but they're like fake boobs.

[113] They jiggle when you move.

[114] So this guy has it all over his body.

[115] He has it on his shoulders.

[116] He has it on his chest.

[117] He has it on his arms.

[118] And because of that, first of all, his arms are heavy.

[119] It's like he's punching with like 10 pound gloves, and the other guy has eight -ounce gloves.

[120] And this guy is known for having fake fights.

[121] Apparently he has like 11 fake fights on his record, and he's a senator in Mexico.

[122] And he comes from a wealthy family, the guy on the left.

[123] Massive plastic surgery all over his face.

[124] His whole face looks like a fucking kabuki mask.

[125] But look, his whole body is like fake.

[126] And if you turn it up, Jamie, so we can hear, when the crowd sees him fight, they start laughing.

[127] Like, really loud.

[128] Like, give us some volume here.

[129] Listen to the crowd.

[130] Oh, yeah, you can hear that loud.

[131] I mean, get the fuck out of here.

[132] That's like a sketch from Mad TV.

[133] Look at this.

[134] Look at the way he's throwing punches.

[135] It's literally like he's got lead all over his arms because of these goddamn synthol muscles.

[136] Like he's carrying pounds of this water stuff, this oil stuff in his body.

[137] I would fight that guy.

[138] The guy on the left?

[139] Yeah, we either one is in the, I guess.

[140] It's so crazy.

[141] crazy.

[142] This guy's a law graduate.

[143] What do you have to do to be a law graduate in Mexico?

[144] Pay the fee, I don't know.

[145] I mean, maybe you guys might want to suspend that guy if he's still a lawyer.

[146] But, you know, it's so crazy because Mexico is known for its great tradition of fantastic boxers, like some of the greatest boxers of all time of coming out of Mexico.

[147] It's a huge part of their culture.

[148] So to have this guy do that, this rich guy do that.

[149] It's so cool.

[150] crazy but that's always existed i believe that was uh was done in the philippines i think mexican fans would pull that guy from limb to limb if he tried it in mexico i'm pretty sure that was uh that that that that video was shot in mexico in the philippines oh was it yeah yeah just mexican fans are very very they're like philly fans they know exactly what they're looking at it's just interesting you said that because the guys who are talking they sound like they have a filipino accent the guys who are speaking english i don't know the filippino accent well at all but i definitely would defer to you i play a lot of pool and uh some of the filipinos are the great pool players, some of the best pool players ever from the Philippines.

[151] So I'm used to a Filipino accent.

[152] The website, you guys started, so you've been around for 20 years now.

[153] We started the site in 98.

[154] So I thought you said 95.

[155] 95, I started buying the URLs.

[156] I think in 96 we had the art of NHB fighting on AOL.

[157] So if you started in 98, I was a member, I think, in 98.

[158] I think I was a member like the first year then.

[159] If not 98, 99.

[160] No, somewhere I've got our first, I think, first 400, and you're definitely on that list.

[161] I'm one of the first 400, baby.

[162] Woo -hoo!

[163] How many members you guys have now?

[164] Chris?

[165] Active hundreds of thousands, probably.

[166] Holy shit.

[167] I probably have half a million accounts, but, you know, those people fall off here and there, but a lot.

[168] Wow.

[169] We have 1 .3 million people that come to our site every month.

[170] That's insane.

[171] And growing, so.

[172] And growing.

[173] Well, it's the best forum, and it's hard to regulate, but you guys have done an amazing.

[174] job of keeping the douchebags off or at least keeping them at bay because that's where ruins those places.

[175] It kicks off all the pro fighters like so many guys used to post there and don't anymore like Tito and a lot of other like Evan Tanner of course is a famous thread that gets bumped up every now and then where Evan Tanner was saying hello before he died and it was cool back then that like these guys who were fighting in the UFC would come on on a regular basis but they get run off by these just anonymous shitheads who just say the rude as meanish shit to them after they lost or before the fight you know like I've talked to bunch of fighters like no need to name names but even guys like John Finch are like I don't go there I got to stay off there because it fucking fucks at my head like these guys are assholes they're pretty much all assholes the problem is it's not true they're not all assholes but when we started it was a small tight -knit community of people that were in the sport and then you know the UFC blows up so people find us and now it's a million people and out of those million people maybe 10 ,000 are nice but the rest are just anonymous douchebags I don't really think it's the opposite I think 10 ,000 are cunts and the other rest of them are fairly nice but the cunts are very vocal like they're on there all the time and they just speak up all the time well it's just like they can yep I mean that's the beautiful thing about the internet it's the horrible thing about the internet the beautiful thing about the internet is anyone can talk and that's the same reason why it sucks yeah that was perfectly that was perfectly put But it baffled me so much.

[176] I actually went to a psychiatrist to ask him.

[177] There's a psychiatrist who's a friend of family, I'm like, why do people do that?

[178] And he said, human beings have all sorts of emotional impulses and were constrained by society from acting out on a lot of them.

[179] Maybe you're an unhappy person.

[180] You want to swear it every single person you see.

[181] But you can't, or you get punched in the eye or there's other bad feedback.

[182] But on the Internet, all that stuff just comes out.

[183] Yeah.

[184] And you're anonymous.

[185] So there's no repercussions whatsoever.

[186] Like occasionally, you guys hear about that guy on Reddit.

[187] He was a famous, you know, infamous guy on some of these forums because he would post like really inappropriate shit, really rude things, nasty things.

[188] And apparently, I don't know if it was anonymous or who went after the guy, but they found his actual identification.

[189] They knew who he actually was.

[190] And they contacted his employers and they sent him the posts that this guy was making and he got fired.

[191] And, you know, they interviewed him and he said, you know, it was his release.

[192] He said he was just playing a role and, you know, he would do show pictures of underage girls and all kinds of, like, really creepy shit.

[193] Yeah, I mean, that was his thing.

[194] And it was real, in real life.

[195] I mean, he got real live repercussions because he got fired because of it.

[196] So it was a big deal eventually.

[197] It doesn't surprise me at all.

[198] We have guys email us every week.

[199] Can you please delete all my posts on your forum?

[200] Because they're looking for a job or they just don't want that stuff out in public.

[201] I've had that happen on my own message board.

[202] But I'm like, dude, you don't.

[203] your name is like, you know, suck it off, 69.

[204] You really think someone's going to find that?

[205] It just seems like, it seems like a weird place to look.

[206] Now, when you started, what's really interesting about this sport for folks who don't know, mixed martial arts, when I came along in 1997, it was when I first started working for the UFC, it was essentially a band sport.

[207] The only way you could get it was direct TV.

[208] That was the only way you could get it.

[209] It was banned from cable.

[210] and when you would talk to people about it they would talk to you like you were a horrible person for being involved in such a thing and the sport stayed alive because of the internet it was the first sport ever that stayed alive because of the internet the websites were the Shur Dog or MMA Weekly I don't know when that came along but there was a bunch of them that came along that was how we found out about the sport that's how we found out about the pride shows and K1 and you know all the different fights that were going on in Japan and in Brazil, the only way to find out about them was the internet.

[211] So we were all like really active.

[212] And you would go to these forums and you would try to find out, you know, what is happening?

[213] What's going on now?

[214] And a lot of times, you know, you would be able to buy, I used to get tapes from a dude in Canada.

[215] A friend of mine in Canada had a friend and this dude contacted me, a dude named Brian, and I would buy tapes from him.

[216] He would get him from Japan.

[217] And he would send him down to that.

[218] to me in California.

[219] I still have a gang of them.

[220] And it was like all a gangi sudos, old fights, and Kid Yamamoto, like, in the early days.

[221] And it was really the, it was such an underground sport.

[222] And it's one of the reasons why the name of your website was so perfect, because it was the underground of the underground sport.

[223] Yeah, I agree 100%.

[224] I actually, many, many years ago, maybe 15 years ago, I tried to get Wired Magazine to do an article on it because they did, maybe it was 10 years ago.

[225] They did an article on the role of the Internet in revolutions and countries, and that was starting.

[226] I was like, hey, I got a sport that was saved by the Internet.

[227] And they sent them some cool pictures, and they were like, oh, those are cool pictures.

[228] We're not interested.

[229] But I agree 100%.

[230] And I try to get some notice of that in sort of the tech community, or at least as much of the tech community, as much of the tech communities I know, which was, which was, is, it wasn't his Wired magazine.

[231] Well, there wasn't very many other sports I can claim that.

[232] None that I could think of.

[233] I mean, what other sport?

[234] First of all, there's never been a sport in our life that has grown the way MMA has.

[235] There's nothing, nothing even close.

[236] They tried it with soccer, didn't take.

[237] I mean, there's been a bunch of attempts.

[238] Remember when they had that basketball game that they used to play on trampolines?

[239] Oh, they still play that game.

[240] I've seen it on ESPN like 7 before.

[241] It's like still on like 1 o 'clock in the morning on a Tuesday.

[242] That's what they used to have like PKK karate.

[243] PKK karate used to be on it like one of the 80s.

[244] The kick of the 80s, that's right.

[245] That's what they called it.

[246] But there was no sport in my lifetime that grew like MMA did from complete total obscurity to the cover of ESPN over the front page of CNN, the cover of Sports Illustrated.

[247] Like that shit never happened.

[248] There's never been a sport that blew up like that.

[249] And when it was at its worst, when it was at its most desperate time, it was sites like yours, really, that kept it alive.

[250] Yeah, Ultimate Athlete magazine listed, again, this is going back 10 or 12 years because they tried to compete with the UFC with a show also using the term ultimate and they got sued and disappeared.

[251] But before they disappeared, they gave out, they did the 20 most important things in the history of the internet.

[252] And number eight was the underground.

[253] And they were like, if not for the underground and several other sites, the sport might have died.

[254] And then they went on to discuss exactly what you are because it had been banned from television and everything.

[255] Well, at one point in time, the other ground had more post than the underground.

[256] Oh, it still does.

[257] Does it?

[258] Well, it got to be so much, our server got full.

[259] So we killed the other ground one day and everybody got mad at us, but it's there more or less even now.

[260] We have to prune it, I think.

[261] It's so more traffic, but we have to, like, every 30 days just delete them because it's just, it's stupid.

[262] It's these guys at work 9 to 5.

[263] They don't even give a shit about MMA.

[264] They just found a space in the Internet with some friends, and they just stay there all day.

[265] Some psychos.

[266] When I work 9 to 5, it's all.

[267] I did all day.

[268] Like, I was IT guy.

[269] I was just OG all day.

[270] Well, that is the thing about people that have desk jobs where they're not being watched.

[271] The amount of productivity that's lost today because the Internet is off the fucking charts.

[272] It is absolutely absurd.

[273] If you look at our stats, we're only popular during work days.

[274] Weekends, nobody bothers.

[275] They're having fun.

[276] They're going to a barbecue or taking a jog or whatever nighttime.

[277] Isn't that amazing?

[278] Kissing their girlfriend.

[279] It's people at work all day.

[280] It's amazing.

[281] How much time is being wasted?

[282] People are getting paid by the hour to surf to other ground.

[283] And look at girls' asses.

[284] Lots of that you're one of those 9 ,700 -page ass threads that you guys have.

[285] There's a, it's a testament to how things are screwed up in American management, though, that it's allowed.

[286] I mean, nobody should be able to go on the Internet during the work day because they're not going to be doing work.

[287] They're going to be...

[288] Well, listening to this podcast right now.

[289] There's a huge amount of people at work with headphones on that aren't doing any fucking work at all They're just kicking their feet back.

[290] They might have like a folder open like they're pretending to pay attention to some fucking spreadsheet But really they're just listening to us.

[291] That's normal.

[292] I know that there's a little thing you can download for your computer So at the touch of a button a spreadsheet pops open and makes it appear as if you're working hard So your boss comes and looks over your shoulder and bing spreadsheet and you go back.

[293] I want to work at Kyrick since 06.

[294] Before that, I was just an IT guy.

[295] Graduated to college, regular IT job, but I was into the sport, and so I would work IT 8 to 5, and I had the underground up all the time, or I was doing work for him, like, on the side, and I had a button on the floor that was attached to USB, and when I tapped it, like an Excel spreadsheet would pop up, and, like, another document, so it looked like I was working.

[296] So if, like, a boss came in behind me, tap the button, looks like I'm working.

[297] But I'd really just be OG and I're working on something else all day.

[298] Your boss is listening right now He wants his fucking money Yeah, probably I think I owe I'm like $40 grand a year For three years or something That really is a It's a giant issue Now another giant issue That you guys must have come across Is bandwidth I mean how much bandwidth Does that site use And how much does that cost every month?

[299] I remember when I The first time I ever noticed Bandwidth was an issue It was $75 a month And this probably would have been 99 or something I was like Oh my God $75 a month?

[300] This is insane.

[301] And then an ex -U -F -NFL player owned a snake store in Colorado, and he kind of heard I was having this huge $75 a month bandwidth at you.

[302] And so he said, you know what?

[303] Put a banner on your site for my snake store in Colorado.

[304] I'll give you $75 a month.

[305] I was like, oh, my God, this is money.

[306] This is commerce.

[307] And what do we pay now, Chris?

[308] $3 ,000 a month or something for it?

[309] $3 ,000 a month?

[310] $3 ,000 a month in bandwidth.

[311] Yeah, hosting, band.

[312] with all that fun shit.

[313] That's insane.

[314] And that's not including the capital costs of the car drives and stuff.

[315] When something crazy happens, like fight -related, like, people say, like, Greg is about to break the internet or something.

[316] And it happens all the time.

[317] Kimbo's broken the internet more than once.

[318] Kimbo.

[319] Just big moments.

[320] They tend to break things.

[321] Now, when you go to the underground, if you go to mixed martial arts, I've almost at m .m .a .tv.

[322] If you go to MMA .m .a .com.

[323] It redirects if you go there, yeah.

[324] We pay $500 a year to keep that.

[325] Because half people still type it in when they go to a browser.

[326] Well, my browser used to be programmed to it.

[327] I would hit M, and that would fill it in.

[328] I would click that, and then it would forward to Mix Martial Arts .com.

[329] But you had a bunch of banners.

[330] Like you have Mazda ads, and do you guys have to actively seek those out?

[331] No, we have a company that pretty much reps all the ad inventory.

[332] So we've made some deals ourselves, like with the endemics, like the revgear and draft kings and request to test, Fox.

[333] But someone else just sells the rest.

[334] And so now, is this your job entirely for both of you?

[335] Yeah, 100%.

[336] That's wild, isn't it?

[337] Like at one point in time, this must have been like a frivolous thing that you were doing.

[338] Oh, for the first decade or something.

[339] Occasionally, we would get ahead by a few hundred dollars, and then there'd be some local fighter, I know, who got a chance to fight in the Nebraska.

[340] I had a guy who got to fight Nebraska, so I bought him an airplane ticket.

[341] That's what we would use with our super profits.

[342] And then, I don't know when it turned pro.

[343] 2008?

[344] Yeah, we brought in Chris, and Chris kind of got some good deals.

[345] And all of a sudden, I was like, oh, my God, we can make more than $75 a month.

[346] Yeah, when I came on board, they were like, we have this website.

[347] It gets a million views a month.

[348] We make $100 a month.

[349] And I'm like, I think you can make more than that.

[350] So he's like, hey, try it.

[351] Do it, and you got a job.

[352] So I reached out to, like, tap out the big guys in the space, and I made big deals that these guys were like, you guys should go ask tap out for $800 a month.

[353] and I'm like, let's go ask him for $8 ,000 and see what happens.

[354] And sure enough, tap out bit at the time and it kind of took off from there.

[355] It's actually a true story and the numbers are not exaggerated in the least.

[356] We were literally like kind of angling for $800 a month.

[357] And, of course, literally said $8 ,000 a month and they literally bought it and we signed a contract.

[358] It's probably the greatest day of my entire life.

[359] Tapout is like a great example of the oversaturation of the market.

[360] Like tap out at one point in time was cool to wear.

[361] I know a lot of people have a hard time believing that.

[362] 1998 sophomore year of high school I ordered the tapout shirt from In Your Face .com And I thought I was the shit It said like submit to tap out To cry uncle It was like I was like This is awesome I wore it once a week to school Because I thought it was the best thing in the world I thought it was so cool And you wouldn't catch me dead in the tap out shirt You know before like nine years ago So now you can't catch you dead in the tap out shirts No no that chance What happened?

[363] I think they got related to like the douchey douchebag aspect of MMA fans and there is that whole big culture of like douchey MMA fans and like tap -out and affliction they all got kind of stuck in that.

[364] Well how did that happen though?

[365] I don't know how it happens.

[366] Yeah.

[367] Well I at a grappling tournament again 15 years ago or something I had an interaction with a guy that stuck with me ever since I had made some call in some match and I think it was his match not one of his students.

[368] He's got a big school up in Canada now and he was arguing me that I made the point wrong and I was like dude it's just grappling come on man and he looked at me and he goes look this is what we do instead of having health insurance and I just got cold and I apologize and I listened to what he said but there's a he said grappling is what I do instead of having health insurance so he pays for grappling instruction instead of having health insurance he was so serious about his lessons at Henzos that he had moved from Canada moved from Canada New York was taking lessons at Hanzo He's probably a black belt now.

[369] He's probably a blue belt or a purple belt then.

[370] I was reffing a match.

[371] I probably made a wrong call.

[372] He lost.

[373] I was telling him, it's not that important.

[374] And he said, this is what I do instead of having health insurance.

[375] I can't do both.

[376] It's how serious it is for me. And there's a hardcore fan base of the sport that's like that.

[377] If you were like, okay, health insurance or never discussing or having anything to do with M .MA, they're sorry health insurance, hope I don't break my leg.

[378] But that's the hardcore fan base.

[379] Around them, there's millions of knuckleheads that, also buy the apparel and stuff and eventually the knuckleheads outnumber the hard cores and and it doesn't work the one huge exception, one of the huge exceptions that though is roots of fight it's just an unbelievable company they the very first time I saw one of their things I'm wearing one right now I'm wearing one right now I'll wear their shit all the time I have the white jackets too yeah I've got one in my I've got one in my suit I've got one in my suitcase right now they managed to do with integrity I think I see their their apparel around a lot.

[380] And to me, at least, they still have complete integrity.

[381] If the president and the entire Senate was wearing it, it'd still be like, yeah, Roots of Fight is awesome.

[382] Well, Roots of Fight takes old, like, fight promo posters and turns them into cool t -shirts and all, like, this one.

[383] This is the actual sign for the Gracie Academy in, like, the 1950s.

[384] And this is amazing.

[385] To me, it's like a little piece of history.

[386] So I don't think they're ever going to go out of style.

[387] But there's a certain, there's a certain douchey element that's attached to the t -shirt world of mixed martial arts because it became a way that guys that sort of identify with the sport like this is one that I always cite that's a real shirt that I saw in New Jersey this guy was wearing a shirt that said some guys grapple some guys strike on both I was like oh you're disgusting I actually know that company yeah yeah some guys are strikers some guys are grapplers on both my my favorite MMA t -shirt of all time is Kip did a run off of it but a couple of companies have my girlfriend loves to grapple but you should see her box my favorite MMA t -shirt I've ever had I think I still have it in the closet somewhere that's a good shirt for Boston too because the word box is synonymous with vagina in Boston and one of those it's one of those weird things is it just a Boston thing I did not know that that was just a Boston thing it's just assumed it was worldwide it's spread we've spread it we've spread it across the world, but I think it came from our neck of the woods.

[388] I think box was like...

[389] It doesn't even look like a box.

[390] Maybe a Kleenex, because it's like the box with the hole in the middle.

[391] Well, how are tits cans?

[392] Tits were cans for a long time.

[393] Right?

[394] What is that?

[395] I don't make any sense.

[396] Right?

[397] I don't think any of the nicknames for tits makes sense, probably.

[398] Boobes?

[399] They look like boobs.

[400] Did you ever think at one point in time and not keeping that sight going?

[401] Was there any time where it was becoming...

[402] too expensive or too much of a pain in the ass and you were just like ah fuck this place no the the worst of the sport is in some ways when I was the most dedicated to it when the sport got got off a pay -per -view and you know there was like three paper views in a year and that was more or less it hook and shoot Jeff Jeff would put on a couple of hook and shoots here there's almost nothing I figured the sport was going to die on a national basis and then we would we would just sort of build it up over 40, 50 years and I'd be dead at the end of it but I believe in the sport I always have and I thought it would build up from the bottom up and so I thought the internet at the time at least was incredibly important to do that so when the sport was at its lowest I was actually the most excited about keeping the site going I've definitely never never for a single moment wanted to turn it off because all the jerks but well I always had loyalty to your site for a couple reasons one because it was one of the first ones I've ever joined and it was like one of the places where like I said you would get guys like Josh Barnett would post on there and all these Titor Ortiz.

[403] Yeah, a lot of guys.

[404] A lot of big guys.

[405] Randy in the back in the day, like Dan Henderson.

[406] Dana White would be on it all the time back in the day.

[407] Dana's still on it every day.

[408] He just doesn't do it.

[409] He doesn't post anymore.

[410] How do you know?

[411] Because he calls me about once a week to complain.

[412] Oh, Jesus.

[413] Legit.

[414] Does he complain about like posts they're up?

[415] Here and there, yeah.

[416] You shouldn't have spread that.

[417] He's getting a match.

[418] No, just as people are like making things up about him.

[419] He doesn't like that.

[420] People right now are going to be making things up right now because they know that you guys are here right I mean when he says stuff that he says it they don't he doesn't care but if somebody who twist his words and make something up he gets upset about that well that's why people do it for fun yeah yeah that's called trolling yeah I mean they're gonna continue to do it now Dana Jesus Christ Chris just threw you under the fucking bus I feel like yeah I'm gonna get a call in like 10 minutes like you're fired but I always had loyalty for two reasons one because of that but two because Kirk and I we know people from from Massachusetts like we knew like We're probably pretty close to the same age.

[421] I'm 47.

[422] How old are you?

[423] 54.

[424] In that time period, we knew a lot of the same martial arts people.

[425] Like I'd heard about you.

[426] I heard about your school in Western Massachusetts.

[427] Western Massachusetts was always the home of Larry Kelly, who's like a really well -known karate guy.

[428] He was my business partner for 20 years.

[429] And he was really popular or famous rather for knocking out Billy Blanks back when Billy Blanks was a fucking superhero.

[430] I mean, he was the point karate guy.

[431] And that's another one where they dusted a guy off and made him fight again.

[432] If you watch that fight with Billy Blanks, Larry Kelly chaos him with a hopping hook kick to the face.

[433] And Larry was famous for his hook kick, which is a really hard shot.

[434] It's a hard kick to generate force with because your hips have to start out here and then they have to switch that way.

[435] It's a weird motion.

[436] Whereas like a round kick seems more natural, like kinetically.

[437] But Larry had it down.

[438] And he hook kicked Billy Blanks in the face and sent him flying.

[439] He skid across the mat.

[440] He was completely unconscious.

[441] And they waited for him to wake up.

[442] And then they were literally trying to get him to fight again.

[443] That's how, this is it right here.

[444] Oh, here it is.

[445] Watch this.

[446] This is like when people talk shit about the hook kick, I say, well, I'm going to show you something here.

[447] First of all, Bill Superfoot walls and boom, that.

[448] I mean, come on, son.

[449] Look at that.

[450] I mean, that was beautiful.

[451] One more time.

[452] Look at this.

[453] The hop, boom.

[454] And he disguised it behind the back fist or a jab or whatever he was doing with his front hand.

[455] Beautiful.

[456] And when they busted him off after that, if you watch the actual full video, they were trying, they waited for a long time.

[457] They were trying to get them to go back in there and fight again, which is how stupid people were back then.

[458] They had no knowledge.

[459] When we were coming up and we were talking before the show started about guys who had been knocked out in the gym and all these people that we know, People get knocked out, they would dust you off and push you right back in there.

[460] Like that day, five minutes later, like right here is Billy, they're warming him up.

[461] They're like, wake up, Billy, wake up, wake up.

[462] He's like, I think, I got a dream.

[463] It's called Tybo.

[464] Smelling salts in his nose.

[465] And there was a bunch of these guys.

[466] There was him and a bunch of other guys like him that were these really big, super muscular guys that were involved in the point fighting circuit.

[467] And they got real good at leaping in and tagging you.

[468] And you're starting to see that skill emerge in MMA.

[469] I know there's a guy who fights for Bellator.

[470] His name is escaping me right now.

[471] He's a Venom.

[472] What's his?

[473] Yeah.

[474] Michael Page, right?

[475] Yeah, that's it.

[476] And he has that style.

[477] And then, of course, you've got Raymond Daniels, who's fighting in glory, who's really picking up the kickboxing game who also was a great fighter in the point karate circuit and he's got that style that leap in style and the ability to cover distance the ability to jump in and cover distance in a way that you can't you know like there's a lot of guys that are they're sticking to that moitai style sort of flat -footed Tiago Silva plod Ford sort of style and that shit is not flying anymore you got these guys like t j dillishaw that are now using that neo footwork style but the Raymond Daniel style, I think that's the next level.

[478] I think you've got that style of leaping in on top of the Neo footwork style.

[479] Because that ability that those guys had of just closing the distance really quick with that karate style blitz, I still think that's like a missing aspect in a lot of MMA.

[480] Machita had it a little bit.

[481] You know, he has an element of that but he was more of a counterstriker.

[482] But I think Larry Kelly like in that video demonstrated like why that can be super effective like that it actually came originally came into the the sport of a point fighting from Bruce Lee and Bruce Lee picked it up from from fencing Bruce Lee watched all kinds like he watched boxing he loved Muhammad Ali the same way Dominic Cruz did try and pick up things from him and he watched fencing and fencers have the quickest footwork and handwork that I personally have ever seen they just explode forward and he picked it up and he showed it to a karate guy named Joe Lewis not the boxer Joe Lewis but a karate guy named Joe Lewis and Joe Lewis started smashing everybody with it and so everybody else picked it up and then the point fighting in karate where you stop every single time you land something which is kind of nutty started to dissipate and people started doing what's called continuous point where you weren't trying to knock each other out you were trying to land super clean shots without a knockout but you kept going and that's where like Daniels came from and Michael Venom page and guys like that and I do think that it that it can be applied to the sport and then you know in a couple of years people learn how to counter that and something new will come along but when you can do something something new in the sport.

[483] You get a little edge for a while, like Machita did with his traditional Shotokan karate, those long, long lunges forward and sort of jabbing super hard and throwing that right hard.

[484] He had an advantage over everybody until he started bringing karate guys in and they're like, okay, it's not that tough to shut down.

[485] Once guys figure out what they're doing, you know, once you find a guy who's really good that you can spar with, then you can kind of time it.

[486] But until then, until then it's like, what is this new style of movement that I have in front of?

[487] of me that I don't know anybody moves like this, and it's super hard to judge.

[488] Super hard to judge the timing.

[489] I got to watch it organically, most notably through grapplings.

[490] I started refing grappling in the late 90s for my best friend Kip Kolar with Naga.

[491] And I would watch as new grappling techniques would get introduced.

[492] When I started, nobody knew what a heel hook was.

[493] And then a few guys would learn a heel hook, and guys didn't know how to tap, they didn't know how to tap, they didn't know it break your leg if you didn't tap.

[494] And there'd be these horrific injuries of guys spinning the wrong way from heel hooks and now hardly anybody taps to heel hooks it's not that tough to get out of um and it unless paul harris gets you unless paul harris gets you then you're in trouble that motherfucker jesus christ he's terrifying or eddie cummings or or gary tonin there's a new level of guys that are coming at the grappling circuit out of uh john donner school and that's like this this new level of leg locks like leg locks are really permeating all of grappling in jiu -jitsu now in a very new and strange way.

[495] I've had some interesting conversations with Eddie Bravo about it, where Eddie really ignored leg locks until a few years back and then started incorporating it, and a lot of it is because of the success of a lot of these East Coast guys.

[496] A lot of, like I said, Gary Tonin, Eddie Cummings, and a lot of it is under the tutelage of Donahur, but there's a lot of guys in grappling that are really getting good at it.

[497] And, of course, in MMA, it was Paul Harris.

[498] It really kind of opened up a lot of people's eyes.

[499] Yeah, it's funny you brought it up.

[500] I'm going to train with Eddie tonight down in L .A. And I told someone that, and they're like, yeah, he's been really working on his leg locks lately.

[501] So that's what you need to look out for.

[502] My gym, coincidentally, we've been doing leg locks forever.

[503] Like, Joe Lozo and those guys, that's their brother and brother.

[504] They've been doing flying heel hooks for 10 years.

[505] And it all came from a guy named Donnie Banville in Fall River.

[506] It was actually passed now.

[507] But he grew up with a Japanese mother in judo.

[508] And he was like the leglock king.

[509] and this is like 2002 and we're like what the fuck is a leg lock but he came into our gym and he tossed like rolling toe holds he tossed a flying leg lock all inside outside of the hill all that stuff and we're like this is awesome and for years our gym was a competitive advantage we knew leg locks so we'd be guys in grappling tournaments and fights with leg locks and they had no idea what was going on do you guys remember scott adams yeah of course scott ams yeah and he was a guy one of the guys who trained with chuck like way back in the day he was known as like a leglock master back when no one knew what the hell leg locks were, he was one of those guys that you would hear about, and you would go to him.

[510] You know, there was a few of those guys.

[511] Like, Frank Meir had some real good leg locks way, way back in the day.

[512] And that's, that fucked him when he fought Ian Freeman.

[513] Remember that?

[514] He was going for the heel hook.

[515] I was live in London for that one.

[516] Were you really?

[517] Yeah.

[518] Wow.

[519] That was when I wasn't working for the UFC.

[520] I was watching that at home.

[521] And I remember that was the issue with leg locks was that when someone would attack a leglock, you would have both your arms committed.

[522] it to the leg lock so you wouldn't be able to defend against punches.

[523] And as you know, with a guy like Ian Freeman, it only takes one to scramble your fucking senses.

[524] And then a couple.

[525] I mean, Frank got hit by like four or five in a row.

[526] Boom, boom, boom.

[527] He just was gone.

[528] You know, and it's interesting to see that the progression of these techniques, how it changes and how it morphs.

[529] And one of the things like from, like, if you look at a guy like Larry Kelly or you look at like a lot of these traditional karate techniques, Those techniques were kind of looked at like those don't work anymore.

[530] But now you're seeing so many of these traditional martial arts techniques.

[531] Like front kicks to the body are now standard.

[532] Like Colin McGregor, or Connor McGregor, rather, ruined Chad Mendez with front kicks to the body, just jabbing them with those front kicks of the body and the spinning back kick to the body.

[533] You've seen a lot of guys throw those kicks to the body now.

[534] You've seen a lot of wheel kicks.

[535] That Wonder Boy Thompson fight, we fought Jake Ellenberger?

[536] You're holy shit.

[537] I mean, you're seeing these traditional techniques that are just super effective when you get him in the hands of a guy like Edson Barbosa.

[538] When you get him in the hands of a guy who knows all the other things.

[539] Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

[540] At various points, I have thought, okay, the sport is done.

[541] We've sort of got this body of knowledge, and we've just got to refine what we've got, and we're not going to be seeing a lot of new stuff coming in.

[542] And every time I had that thought, six months later or something, had come along and and I would be proven wrong including super simple things like the Arm and Guillotine when it first started happening in grappling tournaments I was roughing the first time it really hit me hard I was roughing in Hawaii guy stuck in an arm and guillotine I thought it was a front headlock and in Naga you give points if somebody gets close to a tap and I'm standing here like there's nothing going it's a front headlock front headlock front of it's not gonna and like I went to sleep remember Pete Sal and Phil Barone Pete Sal put Phil Barone his sleep and Phil said after the fight he goes, I didn't know that you could get, put the sleep at one of those.

[543] Right.

[544] Because we didn't know.

[545] It wasn't that he was ignorant.

[546] We didn't know.

[547] But Matt Serra, who was Pete Sell's coach, knew.

[548] They were a little bit ahead.

[549] Because the jiu -setsu's hens or Gracie Blackbell, a little bit ahead of everybody.

[550] When I started learning jujitsu, I was told you're safe if the arms in your front head in the guillotine.

[551] You're like, oh, just hang out and let go and you're good.

[552] You're always safe.

[553] They figured out how to get up high on the neck.

[554] That's what happened.

[555] When guys started getting that guillotine, It would lean back like a regular gear team, it didn't work.

[556] But now when they get up high on the neck, man, it just shuts the lights out.

[557] If you got a good grip, you know, there's also different grips.

[558] Like, this is a big one that a lot of guys are using this pretzel grip where you wrap around this way.

[559] It seems awkward until you have someone's neck in there.

[560] And then for some reason, it feels amazing.

[561] Yeah, I know.

[562] Jake Shields likes it.

[563] I learned it from Denny Propagos, who was a big fan of, he's a big fan of, like, adding, incorporating all kinds of weird grips to it.

[564] I mean, different people have different grips that they use with techniques, and it's amazing how just those little subtle adjustments have a huge impact on the efficiency of the technique, how much leverage you can get into the technique.

[565] Yeah, I think Tom Waller told me that was his grip one day, and I was like, I'll try it.

[566] It seems weird, but I like that grip now.

[567] It's a great grip.

[568] Somebody won in Mexico with a guillotine, and then, you know, did, like, motion to the camera.

[569] They went like this, and they went like, no, no, no, like this.

[570] like he did it to the camera showed after he got the tap the name escapes me who it was but it's fascinating to me all the different techniques and the different variables and we're seeing that even with the traditional martial arts techniques there's still a lot of things that guys are doing wrong with like traditional kicks like side kicks and spinning back kicks or turning side kicks there's still a lot of guys that have the knee down instead of the knee up they don't lift the knee high enough because it takes a long time to learn to do that But when you do do it, then you get that thrusting kick, which has so much more power, like Barbosa.

[571] Like you see, Barbosa's turning sidekicks this weekend.

[572] He lifts that knee up high, and it comes straight at you.

[573] That motherfucker kicks so fast.

[574] Can you imagine getting kick square in the dick?

[575] Like, what's his name did from that spinning back kick?

[576] He'll right to the dick.

[577] I don't know what kind of cup he has, but if it's one of those diamond MMA ones or one of those Thai steel cups.

[578] Yeah, the diamond ones.

[579] It's supposed to be like you can run them over with a car and they don't...

[580] Do you have one?

[581] No, yeah, that's what I use.

[582] They're incredible.

[583] They're great.

[584] Do you have one care?

[585] Yeah, they're 100%.

[586] I can actually do one of those, kick me in the Jimmy skits, and you can get kicked in the Jimmy in it actually is okay.

[587] They have like this commercial.

[588] They put an apple in the cup on the ground and they run it over the regular cup and it gets destroyed.

[589] Then they put it on the diamond cup and they run it over and the apple's fine.

[590] Yeah, they're legit.

[591] 4 ,000 pounds of a car or whatever.

[592] Yeah, it's interesting because all these, you know, these, these, little problems that people used to have.

[593] And they still have.

[594] There's a lot of guys that still have shitty old cups.

[595] Like, I don't know what Felder was using, but it looked to me like a regular jockstrap and a cup that you'd buy at fucking a sporting goods store.

[596] $10 a shock doctor or something cup.

[597] I was cornering Roxanne a few years ago at a strike force.

[598] And we were at a, I think we're just taking a long walk to shit our nerves off.

[599] Roxanne Montefarie?

[600] Yeah.

[601] It was the same one where Fador knocked out our Rogers.

[602] And I think spit it out has some mental health issues right now in this sport yeah it's a long list yeah Jesus Christ how about saying oh Maham Miller I ran into Maham Miller and he had his cup and it was just a cup that you would buy for 1495 at Dick's sporting goods or something the metal cups are I think they're the best because if you kick them you get a broken toe and if you figure force somebody's body you can dig the metal cup into their spine I don't even grapple with all the cup now.

[603] I feel like I'm not confident.

[604] Like, I go to, like, move and I'm like, ah, just cup.

[605] Can't do it.

[606] Well, the metal cups are banned from a lot of grappling tournaments because they offer a weapon.

[607] Yeah, it's a weapon.

[608] It's like a leverage point, like a fulcrum point.

[609] Especially for arm bars.

[610] It's like you have a rock there.

[611] It's a completely different point of leverage than you would have if it was just your dick.

[612] I wonder if that's how Big Tim's forearm broke when Meir did it.

[613] I wonder if he had a metal cup on it.

[614] He could have a forearm over the edge of the metal cup did it.

[615] I never thought about that.

[616] It's very possible.

[617] A lot of guys fight with tie cops, steel tight cuts.

[618] Yeah, I'd tell everybody, too.

[619] Like, Joe Lozone has this mount back mount, and he calls it broke back mount.

[620] So he gets the hook set, right?

[621] And then he's got the hook set.

[622] He flattens you flat on the ground.

[623] Then he scoots his ass back, so, like, his cups in your, like, your asshole, pretty much.

[624] And it's terrible.

[625] It's terrible.

[626] I've tapped out to it because he just drives forward with a hard cup, and it feels like you're getting fucked in the ass.

[627] So you've got to just pretty much tap up.

[628] Well, you kind of are.

[629] You kind of, yeah, I mean, there's probably no penetration, but it's pretty close with it.

[630] That's so rude.

[631] It's fucking terrible.

[632] But you can't move.

[633] You can't, you're, like, stuck because you can't, like, push your hips up to the sky.

[634] It's terrible.

[635] Well, there's some moves that are still legal in grappling, like oil checks.

[636] Like, how's...

[637] No, that's legal in NCAA wrestling.

[638] Oh, yeah, sure.

[639] That's wrong.

[640] You are literally shoving your fingers in a man's asshole to control him.

[641] And they move because of that.

[642] because it fucking hurt.

[643] It's horrible.

[644] It's weird that you could do that, but you can't just grab his dick.

[645] You mean, you want to really manipulate a guy?

[646] Grab his dick.

[647] You can move him around.

[648] I mean, if you think about it, if a fish hook is illegal, why should be able to put your finger in a guy's button?

[649] I mean, that should be 800 more times illegal.

[650] Don't you think there's a bunch of stuff that needs to be changed in the rules?

[651] Like downward elbows.

[652] That is just dumb as dumb as fuck.

[653] Every time I'm at the show, I watch the ref try to explain where you can't elbow a guy.

[654] And every ref is different.

[655] And under the corners, like, what are you talking about?

[656] Like, there's like a fucking Mohawk.

[657] Oh, no, no, I mean the, yeah, but that's the area.

[658] 12 to 6, yeah, okay.

[659] The 12 to 6 elbow was banned because, and Big John McCarthy told me this, that when they first brought the sport to the athletic commissions, they said, okay, you can do anything, but you can't do this downward elbow strike because I saw a guy on ESPN, break bricks in a karate tournament.

[660] So they thought that this was the most powerful strike known to man. Hey!

[661] Meanwhile, you got Barboso, wheel kicking Terry Edom, into another dimension, and that's legal.

[662] And also, like, the back of the head.

[663] Like, I get the fact that you don't want people to get hit in the back of the head.

[664] But here's the reality.

[665] Almost every head kick is landing in the back of the head.

[666] That's why guys go out, because the foot wraps around and hits him in the back of the head.

[667] Yeah, it's a big part of it.

[668] A big part of the impact is the in -step or the shin, literally hitting that spot where everyone tells you not to hit when you do ground and pound with little short punches.

[669] I mean, it's kind of funny.

[670] Like, someone's telling you you can't hit a hammer fist in the back of the head.

[671] You know, when your arm is half tied up and you're trying to do that, and they're like, watch the back of the head.

[672] But meanwhile, when you're standing, you just crank it with all that thigh meat and bone and 50 pounds of leg behind it.

[673] Boom!

[674] That's legal.

[675] It's very strange.

[676] The thing about the back of the head that a lot of fans don't know is that both players have a responsibility.

[677] and that what usually happens, especially with those kicks, is the kick starts to come in and people shy away from it because the kicks coming in and they expose the back of their head and then they get knocked out.

[678] But both players, both fighters have a responsibility about that back of the head stuff.

[679] And if a shot comes in that if you hadn't moved, it would hit you in the side of the head and then you move and your back of your head starts to get exposed, it's kind of on you.

[680] Well, the same on the ground as well, right?

[681] Yeah.

[682] When a guy's pounding on you on the ground, and you're moving your head away from the punches to your face and he hits the back of your head and then the referee says watch the back of the head well you're already launching that punch before the guy turned it's kind of not really your fault yeah agreed is there a lot of science behind the back of the head thing i mean isn't it bad to hit any part of the fucking head i don't think any part of the head is not good to hit it's soft from boxing it was called a rabbit punch in boxing going back to before the it's always been illegal in boxing i had a i had a weird one two years ago at the Association of Boxing Commission's Convention, I spoke with a surgeon, who's one of the ringside physicians group heads, and I was like, I asked about this exact thing, this exact thing we're discussing.

[683] I said, you know, how dangerous is the back of the head?

[684] And he said, you know, the one that I'm worried about is right here.

[685] He said that when we're, well, that we're the, apparently, I didn't know anything about it.

[686] When we're little kids, the bones haven't quite grown together.

[687] And as you, get a little older, up until two years old or something.

[688] All the bones come together, and they form in a little spot right here.

[689] But he thinks that there's actually a weakness in being hit right here.

[690] And in the 80s, I remember being at Master Tadi's Muay studio in Manchester, England, and we watched a videotape, and Tadi said, that guy died on the tape.

[691] And I was like, holy God, how did he die?

[692] And it was a downward elbow right to here.

[693] It sounds like a silly sort of a blood sport thing.

[694] But that jumping downward elbow right to this spot here is illegal in Muay.

[695] So it may well be that actually...

[696] That's illegal?

[697] Yeah, the single downward or the double downward where they jump up and come right down and hit right here is illegal.

[698] So that's so strange that the forehead would be an illegal target in Muay Thai.

[699] That seems so bizarre.

[700] With an elbow.

[701] With a downward elbow.

[702] But what about like a slashing elbow?

[703] Totally fine.

[704] It's cut away.

[705] But it seems like...

[706] But even a hard one.

[707] like a strong elbow, it's still, I mean, it's not that specific.

[708] If you're hitting someone in the forehead, it's that dangerous.

[709] It may be as simple as a few times, guys, well, a lot of times in Muay Thai, guys have been downward elbow, you know, winging elbow across the head, and they didn't die.

[710] They just got a big cut, and then somebody actually passed away from the straight downward, and they were like, I, we're not doing that anymore.

[711] But the problem is in Muay Thai, you're not dealing with the most stringent athletic commissions that are doing MRIs and CAT scans and making sure the people have their EKGs in order.

[712] There's none of that going on.

[713] So who knows why the fuck that guy died?

[714] And a lot of people's speed, and they take speed before they do Muay Thai.

[715] Yeah, that's pretty common.

[716] Kids died of it, and they...

[717] In Thailand?

[718] Yeah, several younger fighters died from...

[719] They would take speed, because you're...

[720] I mean, I don't some kickboxers back in the 80s.

[721] It took speed for the same reason.

[722] You kind of train harder.

[723] You get more aggressive.

[724] You're more angry.

[725] You feel pain less.

[726] Do you remember rip fuel?

[727] Yeah, I do.

[728] I took that shit.

[729] shit once and went to jihitsu class oh my god i almost fucking died my heart was pounding it was like thong thong thong and i was like i've never been it wasn't tired it wasn't a tired thing it was like my heart was racing it was like i shouldn't be this tired my heart shouldn't be beating like this and then try that in a fight when you're adrenalized and you're bleeding and he's bleeding and the referee screaming there's 2 ,000 people screaming and imagine what your your heart would have done yeah guys have died from well people did die from rip fuel it's one of the One of the reasons why, I mean, I remember taking it, and I remember I rolled with a couple guys, and then I just had to sit down because I was, I was really concerned.

[730] I was like, this is not like me being a pussy.

[731] There's something going on here.

[732] And then I heard about all these people dropping like flies.

[733] And then they pulled it off the shelf, and then they made it illegal.

[734] But I would take it before I would lift, and I feel like fucking Superman.

[735] You just, but lifting, you know, you're doing sets of six or whatever the hell you're doing, it's not taking you that long.

[736] When you're doing a nine -minute roll, that's when the heart really starts getting taxed, and it just can't recover.

[737] It can't calm down.

[738] It's just you're confusing the signals with that goddamn speed.

[739] A friend of mine, a little, I don't want to call it a seizure, but he had a little seizure, he had a little seizure while we were driving.

[740] We were driving in Honolulu, and all of a sudden he just kind of pulls over and freezes and shakes, and it was from ripped fuel.

[741] It's kind of word.

[742] You know, if we've been on the highway, I don't know what would have happened.

[743] You would have died.

[744] I would have died.

[745] He was a rip fuel.

[746] Well, you would have reached over in a fucking heroic manner and sat in his lap and drive you to safety.

[747] Yeah, it's interesting how there's all these different, like, crazy athletic supplements that kind of go by the wayside.

[748] They start out being like a Jack 3D was one that I think.

[749] Have they pulled that?

[750] If I don't they pulled that.

[751] Because I know that somebody, like guys in the military apparently were taking it.

[752] I have a buddy of mine who's in the military and he told me about it.

[753] He texts me and he goes, you ever try this Jack 3D?

[754] Holy shit, I'm getting big on this.

[755] And then, like, four months later, somebody died on it.

[756] I was like, I sent him the article.

[757] I'm like, man. My understanding is that unscrupulous companies will come up with some new formula that's got horny goat weed and oyster meat and who knows what all in it.

[758] And they will actually add real anabolic steroids to it.

[759] Oh, yeah.

[760] They'll market it.

[761] You'll get huge.

[762] And then they'll take the steroids out, but the stuff still has a reputation.

[763] So it's back?

[764] Yeah, I think you can still buy it.

[765] Well, find out Jack 3D basically changed the, uh, Maybe they changed the formula or something like that.

[766] Just Google Jack 3D deaths.

[767] So I might have to apologize if I'm wrong.

[768] Death Army.

[769] He was one of death after using Jack 3D points to gap and regulation.

[770] But it could also just be a guy that just died.

[771] See, that's the problem.

[772] It's like, who the fuck knows what's killing these people?

[773] You know, you don't know.

[774] People die just jogging.

[775] They do die.

[776] They die with nothing in their system.

[777] They die with just fucking salads.

[778] you know and if you the guy died and he would have died anyway and he just took jack 3d and died you'd blame the jack 3d but i don't know a lot of goddamn people take you remember redline it was like a drink oh i remember taking that someone was like here take this let me give you feel great for your workout i thought my chest was going to blow out of my fucking heart i like i thought i've never done cocaine but i feel like that's what cocaine feels like like it was like ah ha ha ha ha ha ha and i had to wreck off like four hours and i went home and i was still jacked up i never took it again it was terrifying well that stuff was also like many doses in a little bottle yeah like you'll drink like a quarter of the bottle yeah but it's not a big bottle it's not like a can of coke yeah you look at it you're like oh this is a serving but you don't read that who the fuck reads labels like those look like this shit in the back like the little tiny i can first of all i'm 47 my eyes suck unless i put reading glasses on i can't read that so these little things like it'd have to go okay how many four four four servings.

[779] This is three ounces of liquid.

[780] How's this four servings?

[781] What am I dividing this with?

[782] Teascoons?

[783] It's like eating a pineapple bineries.

[784] They tell you that's four servings too, but who doesn't eat the whole goddamn pineapple and jerrys?

[785] Yeah, that's ridiculous.

[786] But that's like that how they get away with, like, you know, when you look at a bag of chips and tells you how many calories there is per serving.

[787] Yeah, only 100, because you need three chips.

[788] But it's interesting how the supplement industry, when it comes to bodybuilding and when it comes to, you know, any athletic training has really benefited from all these, you know, these different, like, regulations to get passed or new things become illegal, so they come up with it some new thing to kind of, like, fill in the blanks.

[789] It's, I, one of those guys that always, I've never taken very many supplements because I've never made hardly any money from doing it, and I figured if I was making some money, I would definitely take every supplement on the market because it was worth it.

[790] But I was never very good, and never probably made more than $200 or something.

[791] So for me, it just wasn't worth it.

[792] You mean making money from fighting?

[793] Yeah, I make money from fighting.

[794] It just was, might as well just go in there and see how you do 100 % natural.

[795] Let's talk about what's going on right now with MMA with the testing, because I think it's pretty fascinating, that this is a sport where, to be completely and totally honest, most likely a giant percentage of the population of the people involved in the sport were taking some sort of performance.

[796] enhancing drugs.

[797] It seems like to get through a training camp, and if you're not familiar with MMA, one of the crazy things about the sport is that it involves so many different disciplines.

[798] You have to learn how to wrestle.

[799] You have to learn submissions, meaning, you know, joint locks and chokes.

[800] You have to learn how to kickbox.

[801] You have to learn all these things, and you have to put them all together, and you also have to do a strength and conditioning program.

[802] So unlike boxing, where you're learning how to box, and then you're probably doing a little road work on top of that, but that's mostly it.

[803] It means some guys engage in some calisthenic programs.

[804] Mani Paco is like his famous ab routine you can see him do.

[805] Kovalev actually does Pilates, which is kind of interesting.

[806] But they don't have to grapple.

[807] So for them, what's important is just honing those hand skills, recovering and coming back and honing those skills.

[808] It's really, it's counterproductive for them to go through the same kind of workouts that the MMA guys do.

[809] But for MMA guys, this fucking grind.

[810] of getting up in the morning every day and doing this for six to eight weeks for a camp, it's almost impossible to do at the highest levels without some kind of help.

[811] And now the UFC has incorporated this rigorous, incredibly intense testing where they're doing randoms five times a year on people.

[812] So guys like Connor McGregor, Leota Machita, or anybody, they're just going to get tested.

[813] They're going to show up at your house.

[814] And if you have to, if you're in camp, this is what's really fucked up.

[815] to me say if you got to work out at 10 o 'clock in the morning and you know you need your sleep you went to bed at 10 you know you're you're looking to get 10 11 hour sleep and they wake you up they'll wake you up at 5 6 o 'clock in the morning peeing this cop right now and you have to and they wake you up they fuck with your sleep and you know yeah they're only going to do it that one day but you might go to the gym that one day and be tired because of that and that might be the time you get injured it's totally possible it's totally unprofessional it doesn't make any sense to me that they're allowed to just wake you up.

[816] They should have to do it in an off time, in a time where you absolutely are not going to be getting your rest.

[817] Like, you should have parameters.

[818] They should say, listen, I go to bed at 11 p .m. every night.

[819] I wake up at 9 .30 a .m. And in those times, leave me the fuck alone.

[820] Because I got to recover, God damn it.

[821] You know, but they don't.

[822] They don't do it that way.

[823] They just come anytime they want and you have to pull out your dick and be in a cup and that's it.

[824] They watch you too.

[825] A guy has to watch your dick, yeah, for sure.

[826] Yeah, because you could have a rubber dick.

[827] A wizard.

[828] Kevin Randleman got busted with a wizzenator.

[829] Well, Kevin Randleman got busted with non -human urine.

[830] Yeah.

[831] Well, from the whizaner, the horse urine or something.

[832] But guys will do everything to cheat if you're not looking at their dick.

[833] Like, you can rub like a paste on your thumb and let your stream run through it.

[834] Uh -huh.

[835] Wizanators or...

[836] And the guy's going to stare at your dick.

[837] He's got to look at it.

[838] And the piece coming out of that dick.

[839] And the paste was somehow another diffuse it in it.

[840] Yeah, so it would, like, diffuse.

[841] Put it under your finger.

[842] Your stream would go through your finger and the paste whatever the ingredients were would diffuse the sample or tainted or...

[843] I think it's a good thing to find out what everyone's taking.

[844] I think it's also a good thing to try to figure out what is possible for the human body.

[845] Like, what kind of condition can you actually get in without help?

[846] I mean, if we are really dealing with a sport where 70%, let's say 70, Vitor says it's like 90, maybe he's right.

[847] I would say have used at some point, it's 90.

[848] Using right now, I have no idea, but at some point in their career we're using, yeah, it's 90.

[849] Do you think that's the case at other sports?

[850] I have no idea.

[851] I know a fair amount about mixed martial arts, but I wouldn't know which end of a tennis racket to hold.

[852] I don't know.

[853] Although Chris and I spent the good party yesterday with two of the two senior guys from Usada, and for hours they talked about everything that they've gone through since ever since.

[854] And that's the U .S. anti -doping association.

[855] Yeah, that's the group that the UFC has contracted with to do all the testing.

[856] And when we look at it, it does seem completely onerous.

[857] But from their point of view, they've been in a decades -long battle against people, particularly in a lot of sports, including maybe most notably cycling, where they told us a story yesterday about one of their testers, and they found this out later, years, years later in deposition, one of their testers shows up at the hotel.

[858] somebody's waiting in the lobby and cell phones up the guy is on his way up right now the athlete sprints to the doctor's room and the doctor grabbed an IV bag and squeezed it and forced it and then put another one in and then squeezed it and forced it and there was enough extra liquid in his body from that so his levels were a little kind of weird but they didn't go over any threshold and that's the kind of shenanigans that they've been fighting against and i think that's the origin of that stuff like we're going to show up at 3 a .m and we don't really care about you in m m m m made it does seem completely unnecessary but from their point of view with this decades of trying to fight dirty cyclists and things they they feel like that's the the corner that they're forced into well cycling is the dirty sport it's the dirtiest i think right has to be it's it's one of the dirtiest is why i saw something the other day and some guy was winning the tour de france and i just started laughing i'm like what's he doing is he doing what are you doing what are you doing why you're lying who cares they're riding the fucking bike like they ain't trying to hurt anybody let them all do steroids and just see who wins Yeah, well, you can't do that because then the idea is that kids coming up are forced to take performance enhancing drugs because otherwise there's no way to win that sport.

[859] It's a fake sport.

[860] It's a fake sport in that the results that you're seeing are not normal results.

[861] They're superhuman results and they only come about because you take a guy and you alter his chemistry.

[862] You alter his chemistry to a point where he's not a human anymore.

[863] Like if you look at a bodybuilder, look at a bodybuilder, a perfect example.

[864] And you look at some fucking giant Dorian Yates type character just veins all over his eyeballs and his fucking face is ripped and he weighs 300 pounds and he's five foot two.

[865] It doesn't make any goddamn sense.

[866] Like, what is that?

[867] It's not a human.

[868] No. It's not a human because the levels that they have in their body are not human levels.

[869] This is a new thing.

[870] You've created a new thing with chemistry.

[871] Yeah, guys have guys, you know, those bodybuilders have put on 70 pounds of muscle.

[872] And like, as anybody knows who trains, putting on seven pounds on muscle is, It takes years.

[873] It takes years.

[874] It's just awful.

[875] You could put on 10 pounds of muscle in six months if you are fucking really diligent.

[876] And you've got to push through really hard, sore days.

[877] You've got to do a lot of deadlifting.

[878] You've got to do a lot of squats.

[879] You've got to eat a lot of fucking meat.

[880] And you've got to really work at it.

[881] But you can do it.

[882] Most people don't work out that hard.

[883] But if you get a guy on the juice, you could put on, I was on this stuff called Mag 10.

[884] You used to be able to buy it at GNC.

[885] Do you remember this?

[886] It was like these pills These are sell at GNC They were like clear pills You take like 10 of them It's like some crazy number I put on 10 pounds of muscle In like seven weeks I'm not even kidding It was legal It's the strongest shit I've ever taken And when I got off of it My dick died Like got hit by a sniper My dick was useless My dick was useless For like a month It just wouldn't work And I was like wow That's a steroid That's a real steroid And it was one of those things You could just buy for a little bit it was like the little window you could buy it and then it went away but I'm telling you I never got bigger in my life off of anything other than this stuff and I felt so strong I would go to the gym and like one day I'd be able to get 10 reps and then I would my next workout four days later it was 12 reps didn't make any sense I'm getting an extra two reps in in three or four days like that doesn't make any sense but you would just recover and then I would think about what is it like to take like anadryl 50 or some of the really crazy ones that they say turn you into like a wild silver Overback gorilla and then stack them right?

[887] Yeah, those guys that would take him like I remember I knew this dude was a football player who told me that they would take anadry 50 and they would take all this different stuff and Oh, no, no, no, this is a different guy.

[888] It's a bodybuilder.

[889] He told me he was a it became a jiu -jitsu guy.

[890] He became a black belt under Jean -Jacques Machado.

[891] Great guy and he told me that when he was bodybuilding and he took the anadryl 50 stuff.

[892] He said literally he would see red and then wake up grabbing someone about to kill them like he was Like, some guy said something to him in traffic, and before he knew it, he was out of the car, reaching into the guy's car, ready to kill him, and he was like, what the fuck am I do?

[893] I don't want to go to jail.

[894] I don't want to kill anybody.

[895] But it was this overwhelming rage for almost nothing.

[896] It just turns you into, like, an animal.

[897] Like, it sets you back, like, you're strong as a girl, and you lose that, like, human party.

[898] You just fucking kill things.

[899] You're not really a person.

[900] You're some, you're like, you're mostly person, but you got some.

[901] other element in you and the an and draw 50 stuff is apparently i don't know if it still is but that was like the stuff that people would talk about like if you fuck with that like that is that's the rager that's the rager and that's the stuff that puts 30 40 pounds of just stacked shredded beef on you just all those dudes that would you know do squats and drop the bar and walk away they're barely human barely human a guy at my gym uh in the this is going back probably early 80s doing karate, nice guy from a couple towns over, moved to L .A., started bodybuilding, got a girlfriend, got pissed off at her, got a bat, broke her window, and she shot him dead.

[902] And he was not a violent guy.

[903] He'd never been convicted, never been arrested for any crimes, didn't do anything bad.

[904] I really do pin that on him just sticking every steroid he could possibly find in his ass until his brain blew up.

[905] And then his girlfriend literally shot him dead.

[906] Well, there's a dude that I knew that died.

[907] His name was Curtis, and he was Vitor's original strength and conditioning trainer.

[908] Like way back in 97, when Vitor was 19 years old.

[909] Remember when Vitor first fought in the UFC?

[910] Vitor weighed about 200 plus pounds, like 203 maybe maximum.

[911] He was real lean, but muscular as hell and fast as lightning.

[912] When Vitor first stormed on the scene, we'd never seen hand speed like that.

[913] With good wrestling and jiu -jitsu, too.

[914] I mean, he just, Trey Tellingman had no idea what was coming.

[915] He came out, guns blazing.

[916] That guy that was training, and we would, like Eddie Bravo and I, we used to call him garden hoses.

[917] Because the guy had veins that were like garden hoses.

[918] They didn't make any sense.

[919] He had these arms that were like, I'm not bullshitting, five of my arms, like maybe, five of my arms rolled up in a cord.

[920] I mean, they were enormous.

[921] But he had veins throughout his arms that were like hoses.

[922] He's huge fucking veins, and he was purple.

[923] He would lift weights You do like tricep extensions And he would be purple Just fucking the whole thing is about to blow And one day it did One day it just blew Pop, boom The whole thing just Just left him Bleaning internally And the whole thing exploded Harder brain The whole fucking pack Catastrophic failure of everything And he was in his 30s He was a young guy You know And that was when Vitor got up to like 240 when he fought Randy Couture.

[924] Remember that?

[925] I mean, he got just like a lion.

[926] He didn't even look like a person anymore.

[927] His head looked like it was attached at the top with a neck.

[928] Like the top of his head was where his neck started and just came down.

[929] And he just had no gas.

[930] His gas tank was for about maybe 30 or 40 seconds of flurrying.

[931] And then it would like quickly drop off.

[932] Was that the fight that ended in like a minute with a cut on the eye?

[933] No. That was for the light heavyweight title.

[934] that was in the 2000s.

[935] This was way before that.

[936] I want to say 97 or 98, and I was there for that fight, and Vitor was like 240 pounds.

[937] That was when everybody thought he was going to kill Randy, and Randy just beat him down, took him down, smashed him, and changed his life.

[938] Like, Vitor before then was this unstoppable force who had destroyed Tank Abbott, destroyed Telegman and Scott Farozo, and everybody was like, Vitor is the fucking, like, people were talking about Vitor versus Hickson.

[939] There's all this, like, this crazy talk back then you know and then vitor had like that downward spiral that he went on for a little bit where his sister got kidnapped and all that stuff happened after that they never found her right she died yeah she was killed fortunate horrible horrible story um but uh but the point being that like performance enhancing drugs they're then it's not all fun games scary shit scary shit and when you force your body to do something totally unnatural like that like the the rapid change of putting on 30, 40 pounds in literally six to eight weeks.

[940] Like, that is not good for you.

[941] That is not good for you at all.

[942] So we got to stop that, right?

[943] Agreed.

[944] But the dialogue is like, what should be legal?

[945] It should it be legal to take creatine?

[946] Because that helps.

[947] Should it be legal to take amino acids?

[948] Because they help.

[949] Should you be allowed to take multivitamins?

[950] Should you have to get all your vitamins from food?

[951] You know, where's it end?

[952] One of the ones that in that regard that I've been puzzling.

[953] about for several years now is Nick Diaz had, he used to cut a lot over the eyes.

[954] And there's a surgeon in Vegas that will cut your eyes open and grind down your eye orbits so they become less sharp.

[955] I don't know.

[956] Is that cheating?

[957] I mean, he's doing surgery to change his body so he can be a more efficient fighter.

[958] Granted, it's kind of defensive.

[959] He's just trying not to get cut, but I don't know I've been thinking about it for years and I don't know what the answer is See that one I don't have any problem with at all Because he was born with just a weird eyebrow And also on top of that He had so much scar tissue from all his fights So it wasn't just a matter of the bone was cutting It was also a matter of like he had to get that scar tissue removed Because it would just burst You know scar tissue if you don't know When you have scar tissue around your eye When something heals up It's measurably weaker than it was before that But now they have new methods of dealing with that, like Vandrillae.

[960] Like before Vandalee got his surgery, his eyes, he would just get hit once, and it would swell up, and it would like come down and almost close his eye, and then it would cut open and start bleeding.

[961] And if you looked at him back then, before he had his surgery, his eyes were just a mass of scar tissue, like all around his eyebrows.

[962] So it makes everything thicker because you've got all these cuts, they heal, and there's a knot.

[963] And another one, it heals, and there's a knot.

[964] And all this time it's happening, your eyelids are relaxing.

[965] Also from getting hit a lot because the muscles get pulverized and it starts drooping down over your eye So some guys get surgery to sort of raise their eyelids back up and put them in place so they could see better Because you when you're fighting for a long period time as the poluka look like you always see it in cartoons They get that thing with yeah, I tell you what boys.

[966] I'll go knock his brains in That thing where they would get where the eyebrows would drop down that it impedes your vision Absolutely a lot of guys also don't realize that Scrock inside of your body takes a lot longer to heal than the outside.

[967] So guys will get cut in the gym.

[968] And in like three days, it looks like it's healed, but it's really still damaged inside.

[969] So they're like, oh, it's not an open wound.

[970] I can go back to sparring, and they get hit again, and it cuts open again.

[971] It takes a long time for that stuff to heal internally.

[972] And it becomes chronic.

[973] Yeah.

[974] One thing I wanted to throw in, because there's a huge audience here, and I know as a fact, a lot of them are fighters, is when you do get cut, don't let, like, the EMT or somebody just throw three, quick stitches in there.

[975] Get that cut done by a, get it done by a plastic surgeon.

[976] It makes a huge difference.

[977] That scar tissue comes from people letting, I've actually seen EMTs just, I know how to do that and they'll put three stitches in and not very nicely.

[978] So guys, when you get a really bad cut in a fight, go find a plastic surgeon.

[979] It's worth it.

[980] Well, Kevin Ross, when he fought in Lion Fight, he was actually putting pictures on his Instagram.

[981] What a shitty job the doctor had done.

[982] They stapled him.

[983] The staple went in the cut.

[984] Instead of skin, skin, the staple, this guy was fucking blind.

[985] Some old doctor or something, stapled literally inside the cut.

[986] Instead of on the skin itself, around the cut, to pull the cut together, this fucking idiot stapled the cut.

[987] And now a lot of the times they just try to use glue.

[988] I cut myself in the winter from a fucking icicle because I live in New England.

[989] An icicle cut you?

[990] Yeah, my fucking dad wanted me to shovel his roof off because, like, they get water dams that damage.

[991] So we're just pushing the ladder up, and he bangs an icicle.

[992] And I just look up and fucking smashes me in the head.

[993] I turn around and scream.

[994] And then I look at it.

[995] I mean, it's like, you're fucking bleeding.

[996] I'm like, what do you mean?

[997] I grab my head, fucking blood, pouring down my face everywhere.

[998] I'm like, holy shit.

[999] So I go to the bathroom.

[1000] I put my hand on it, go to the bathroom.

[1001] And there's a good cut.

[1002] I see a lot of cuts in the gym.

[1003] So I'm like, that fucking need stitches.

[1004] I'm like, dad, I got to go.

[1005] I need stitches.

[1006] He's like, no, put the bandit on it, finish my roof, and then you can go to the ER.

[1007] So I put a bandit on it.

[1008] Wow.

[1009] I climb up the roof, shovel the roof, go to the ER.

[1010] and they want to put glue in it.

[1011] And I'm like, I've seen a lot of stitches.

[1012] Like, can you put stitches in my head?

[1013] He's like, I think we can get away with just glue.

[1014] I'm like, well, I box.

[1015] Like, I don't want it to, I want it to be really well closed.

[1016] He's like, no, I'm just going to put glue in it.

[1017] Like, can you please stitch it?

[1018] He's like, who's the doctor here?

[1019] And he just put glue in my head.

[1020] And it's still a big scar there.

[1021] And it's just not as, I don't think it's his heel.

[1022] It would have been if he just stitched.

[1023] What's his name?

[1024] What's his name this fuck?

[1025] I don't know.

[1026] Yeah, well, he's an arrogant asshole.

[1027] It was a Brockton Hospital, so.

[1028] Oh, well, Brockton Blockbuster.

[1029] And the part of the...

[1030] Marky Marciano, Marvin Hagler.

[1031] Part of the story that Chris isn't telling you is that like any good person from Lozahn MMA, the minute he got a head cut and he was bleeding all over the place, he did a selfie.

[1032] Oh, yeah.

[1033] When you walk into Lozond M &A, they have this little wall of fame.

[1034] Yeah.

[1035] Anybody gets cut, they take a picture.

[1036] I'll be like, don't wipe it off.

[1037] Don't touch it yet.

[1038] We've got to take a picture first.

[1039] And then we, like, address the wound and stuff.

[1040] Why?

[1041] I don't know.

[1042] It's kind of like our wall of fame almost.

[1043] You just put a Polaroid up.

[1044] You got to move out of Massachusetts, both of you.

[1045] You got to get out.

[1046] There are too many animals there.

[1047] It's just a hostile environment.

[1048] Joe even said it in an interview this week for his fight.

[1049] He goes, we're a bunch of pricks at my gym.

[1050] And it says we're all from the northeast.

[1051] They're all pricks.

[1052] Well, I went to your gym a long time ago.

[1053] Eddie did a seminar there.

[1054] Yeah, our old gym, yeah.

[1055] Way back in the day.

[1056] We actually, we still have the toenail clippers.

[1057] You use them, we call them the Joe Rogan toenail clippers.

[1058] I don't think anyone uses them because they're like dull as shit now, but like, they're still sitting in a death somewhere.

[1059] That's hilarious.

[1060] Well, we were talking about this before.

[1061] Like, anybody who doesn't clip their nails, their fingernails and toenails before they grapple, that fucking sucks.

[1062] They scratch the shit out of you.

[1063] You're talking about nicked a tooth scratching your neck up.

[1064] Yeah, I think they still have a phone.

[1065] But listening to Nick the tooth, cut your fucking nails, dude.

[1066] I carry a toenail clipper everywhere.

[1067] If I, you know, if I have a bag, I'm going to work out.

[1068] Plus, also to make a fist, even though, like, to punch the bag.

[1069] Yeah, you can hit into your arm.

[1070] It sucks.

[1071] Yeah, you don't want your fingernails digging into your fucking the meat of your hand.

[1072] Creepy people who don't.

[1073] cut their fingernails and don't take showers before they roll or just just bad evil people some people when you uh when they fight they do it on purpose you could tell they fucking stink some people stink when i interview them i'm like woohoo you know they're doing it on purpose lindlinlin told me does it on purpose no showers for like five days and don't brush your teeth and just get your armpit and they call tom walla filthy because he's filthy like it's not it's not like a cute nickname he's fucking filthy all the time and just like eat food off the ground and not shower and just be gross and that guy sweats up like a motherfucker so like he's always nasty what you think about his knockout that was crazy it was awesome i was in the corner for that fight and i'm like watching it from the corner i'm like shit he's getting beat up pretty bad that motherfucker was big yeah because he fought two oh five and they're way bigger and i'm just sitting there like oh this is not going our way and uh the round ends we go in there and john wood the syndicate guy just talking to him he's like you know you're doing all right doing all right just stay in it and then the second round starts and he hits him with a hook like from hell like the best hook you could ever hit a guy with well he threw a few and missed before that the whole first round he threw like ten yeah but no that round yeah like right before he knocked him out it wasn't like valante shouldn't have seen it coming like he was throwing a lot of hooks but valente was convinced he was going to steam roll he was running forward hard he ran right into it ran into it I mean it was the perfect right hook it was picture perfect on the button and that kid's strong and he hits fucking hard Oh, yeah, Blanty's a big boy.

[1074] He's known as a wrestler, but no, Tom, too.

[1075] Oh, Tom, yeah.

[1076] He's physically one of the strongest guys I've ever been on the mat with.

[1077] Well, wrestlers are always strong.

[1078] You grow up wrestling, you grow up throwing bodies around and manipulating bodies.

[1079] You develop a strength that's very unusual.

[1080] Like Ben Ascran, you look at that guy.

[1081] He doesn't look strong.

[1082] He looks like a regular guy.

[1083] But you talk to people who roll with him.

[1084] They're like, Jesus, fucking Christ, he's strong.

[1085] Yeah, we're in an interview with Pettis, and Pettis said he just tortures him on the mat.

[1086] Yeah, it's a different kind of strength.

[1087] Different kind of strength.

[1088] They've been throwing bodies around since they were four years old, and wrestling is grueling.

[1089] I've gone to wrestling practices at, like, just like a D3 college program, and they're grueling practices for an hour and a half shoot across the mat for 20 minutes and drill.

[1090] They just build functional muscle for years in that sport.

[1091] I found a guy at Iowa who did his Ph .D. on the changes in wrestling rules over maybe a 50 -year period or something.

[1092] I read his thesis, and it was interesting.

[1093] And you can see, they called them concession holds, not submissions, but it's the exact same thing.

[1094] You could see year by year, decade by decade, they took out every dangerous hold from wrestling.

[1095] But curiously or interestingly, by taking out every dangerous hold, it actually made wrestling better.

[1096] Because it's the one part of combat sports.

[1097] You can do as hard as you want, and nothing gets broken.

[1098] You can't do Muay Thai.

[1099] you can't box 100 % all the time.

[1100] You sure can't put submissions and roll on the...

[1101] You can't do jih Tzu on people 100%.

[1102] But by virtue of having taken all the concession holds out of wrestling, you can wrestle a guy just as hard as you want, and nobody has to go to the hospital.

[1103] And I think that's what makes wrestling so phenomenal.

[1104] Some of these guys start when they're eight years old, and they go as hard as they humanly can for 20 years, and they're monsters.

[1105] Also, the mental toughness that they developed, There's a mental toughness that wrestlers possess because also they're usually dehydrated, they're cutting weight, they're irritated, almost always overtrained, almost always.

[1106] So you develop this ability to push through discomfort that a lot of people just don't have.

[1107] You know, Jiu -Jitsu, you can go full blast, but you have to tap.

[1108] And if guys don't tap, that's when problems occur.

[1109] But you can certainly go full blast up until the moment when you have to concede.

[1110] But, you know, a lot of people don't like to concede, and that's where the problem comes in.

[1111] This is one of the dumbest things.

[1112] People don't mind if someone scores a point on them in basketball, it seems normal.

[1113] But if somebody taps you, it's like the end of your life because you're in a fight you would have lost.

[1114] But guess what?

[1115] That's the only fucking way you learn.

[1116] Like you have to put yourself in positions where you're going to tap and you've got to deal with that tap.

[1117] And if you don't do it, you're never going to get good at it.

[1118] And we've all known so many guys that come from kickboxing that for whatever reason they got really good at one sport and they never could get good at jiu -sitsu because they didn't want to roll with people who could tap them.

[1119] Hmm.

[1120] Yeah, I was like that.

[1121] You know, I opened up an MMA gym and way before I knew one single thing about the sport in 93, just a couple months after UFC won.

[1122] And for years and years and years, I just didn't want to tap.

[1123] If some new guy came in, if he was a blue belt, that's when blue belts were kind of a big deal, I would lose my mind at the fear that the guy might tap me. And then I read an interview with Frank Shamrock and he goes oh I tap all the time I was like oh oh Frank Shamrock tapped oh it's okay for me to tap and that helped me a lot You ever seen Marcelo Garcia and Damien Meyer role No it's really interesting Really interesting because they tap in left and right Right sure they tap each other left and right and they're not even going full clip they're sort of flowing They're both so good they're both such world champions They're not they don't have any ego at them you know on the line there They're just trying to train hard and get their work in Have you guys seen the clip of high -end and Henzel rolling?

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] It's my favorite rolling clip of all time on YouTube.

[1126] It's in their brothers, so there's got to be that sibling rivalry.

[1127] And in the end, Hensel catches him, but it...

[1128] I was actually talking to Big John last night about the same thing, and he's like...

[1129] Because he has a gym up in Valencia, which is pretty close to here.

[1130] And he's like, when the guy comes into my gym for the first time, they're a little, like, star -struck, but they're close.

[1131] They want to train J -Jitsu, and he rolls with them, and he shakes hands, and they're going to start, and he taps them three times.

[1132] He's like, cool, you tap Big John.

[1133] Now, let's have some.

[1134] some fun so they kind of get over that like oh he lets them he left him yeah he just taps him on the shoulder like taps out and quits before they even start so they have that in their head all right i just tap big john cool what's roll that doesn't make sense just just like kind of like break the pressure i guess that's stupid i might be stupid but i just last night oh big john how dare you i think after that though guys can't go after him it's you know you get some guys a football player or something yeah he's good and he's strong as hell yeah he's a giant man Yeah.

[1135] He is a big man. He's not medium, John.

[1136] He's very good.

[1137] He's not like this guy that, like, you say, oh, he trains, he trains.

[1138] He trains.

[1139] Like, he's really good.

[1140] Were you guys in Vegas for UFC 189?

[1141] I wasn't.

[1142] My brother was actually in there.

[1143] I saw the photos you guys put on the U .G, put some good photos.

[1144] We did?

[1145] Yeah, didn't.

[1146] Where are you guys getting your photos from?

[1147] Like, when you have those photos on the front page, which says, like, MMA News, I go click on it right now.

[1148] There's a bunch of photos.

[1149] Where are you getting those?

[1150] Dulce exclusive on IV ban.

[1151] Where are you getting that photo?

[1152] That's probably a screenshot from a. Yeah, a screenshot from a video or Mike Dolce's Facebook.

[1153] Oh, we had a guy on the ground.

[1154] We had a journalist out there for that.

[1155] Oh, okay.

[1156] We got some, like, good interviews and stuff, but we were actually there, yeah.

[1157] He goes every now and then.

[1158] He's an Irish guy.

[1159] He's like, hey, I want to do some videos for you guys and go to the shows.

[1160] And we're like, we really can't afford that.

[1161] It's fucking expensive to send the guy out and put him up.

[1162] He's like, no, I just want to go.

[1163] I'll just do it on my own dime.

[1164] Like, cool, go out there, have fun.

[1165] We get credentialed, so that's all he wants.

[1166] once from us, really.

[1167] UFC 189 was probably one of the craziest events I've ever been to ever.

[1168] I believe it.

[1169] UFC 189, I wasn't there live.

[1170] I saw it on a big flat screen, but it was one of those few times that I'm like, ah, it was the, it was the Rory Robbie fight where I've looked at the screen at one point and Rory looked like he didn't have a nose.

[1171] Like I'm looking on the high -deaf screen and there was no nose there.

[1172] And it was one of the very few times I've I've just been like, I'm not sure I want to watch this.

[1173] It was just too intense.

[1174] That was one of the most intense title fights ever.

[1175] Roy McDonald got, I mean, he got so close to winning that title.

[1176] He had Robbie Lawler almost knocked out.

[1177] He had kicked him, dinged him.

[1178] Robbie was wobbling.

[1179] And then Robbie came back to stop him in the next round.

[1180] And his nose exploded, and he literally went down in pain.

[1181] And you could see him writhing on the floor.

[1182] And it looked like he was just trying to fall.

[1183] find some comfort like the pain was so intense when that broken nose that he was just trying to find some kind of comfort blood was everywhere and it was just two guys that pushed themselves to the brink and unfortunately when you see a fight what is that can you go to the bathroom is that what you're saying just ask all right go ahead go to the bathroom Jesus Christ you're dad guy's drinking over here Chris Palmquist is the only one drinking here throwing down the booze checking his fucking Twitter every five minutes but uh the it was it was a sport or it was a fight rather with these like you see him here like writhing in agony like here like that is so hard to deal with i mean he's just look at him he's like oh he just goes down i mean he's just in agony i mean it's one of the most intense moments i've ever seen in a fight of just like the most obvious expression of pain i mean look at at him here it's crazy he might not ever be the same yeah and me by the way robbie too that was a crazy fucking fight but rory said the next day that was the greatest day of his life yeah i'm sure that's what kind of a that's the that's the man he is yeah i mean he he fought his heart out there was nothing left for both of them they they were so closely matched such a good fight and so in robbie how about when he's screaming in victory and his lip is split open like a cleft palate his lip is split open this giant gash in his lip like look at him there's a sideways photo where you see like a profile picture of him roaring with his lip split open and it's it's just hard to believe that this guy's you know that he fought like that he fought with his lip split wide open there's a better picture of it jammy if you find it it's like a sideways angle of the side where you see the actual cut itself but it was one of the most gruesome some lip injuries I've ever seen and you know this is the guy who won that those guys there it is there it is Dana apparently walked up from that side right there and said oh my god don't talk don't say one yeah I mean his lip was literally just a giant slice like you get hit with a hatchet in the face it was crazy it was a crazy crazy crazy fight and one of the most intense closely matched title fights in the multi -weight division's history yeah ever it was about down to the wire.

[1184] I mean, it's really the kind of fight that everybody always wanted from GSP.

[1185] But GSP's fights were always really tactical, was really smart about when to take guys down, and people would get mad at, like, the way GSP would fight.

[1186] You know, they would say, oh, he's just out pointing these guys, like, but that's the only way you get out with your fucking head intact.

[1187] Yeah, right, not being fucked up for the rest of your life.

[1188] This is what fighting is?

[1189] I mean, what is fighting?

[1190] Is fighting two guys hitting each other until one guy goes down, or is fighting figuring out how to not get hit?

[1191] I mean, the smart guys figure out how to not get hit as much.

[1192] You're always going to get hit.

[1193] There's no way around it.

[1194] But get hit the least amount possible.

[1195] And I don't understand people that get mad at that.

[1196] I really don't.

[1197] Like, what do you have – I always want to say, does anybody ever hit you?

[1198] Do you understand what these guys are trying to do?

[1199] They're trying to not get hit.

[1200] It's a big part of this whole thing.

[1201] Don't get hit.

[1202] Giant part.

[1203] My sense is, if I watch – I never played football in my life, and I barely know the rules.

[1204] And when I watch football, I personally cannot.

[1205] appreciate their athleticism because I don't know what's going on I know that NFL players are probably the best athletes in the whole world but I can't see it because I don't know the sport my sense is there's a lot of MMA fans that just don't understand the artistry that that goes on there the timing it takes to take somebody down and all the nuances of defense I think if they did know it they would love watching I love GSP fighting is a fight clinic look at that guy for 30 seconds and I pick up something I didn't know before.

[1206] I love watching the guy fight.

[1207] But if I didn't know much about the sport, I'd be like, ah, just why don't you guys hit each other and give each other a bloody nose?

[1208] It's more exciting.

[1209] Well, that's what a lot of people felt about the Manny Pachiaf, Floyd Mayweather fight.

[1210] A lot of people were mad at that fight.

[1211] Yeah, they call it boring.

[1212] Like, hit him, hit him.

[1213] Like, you don't think he's trying?

[1214] I mean, it's a fixed fight.

[1215] They didn't even fucking made a decision to not hit each other.

[1216] Oh, my God.

[1217] Just that stupid conversation that you have with people that don't understand the sport.

[1218] And why doesn't he just do...

[1219] Oh, gee, you shut the fuck up.

[1220] Why doesn't he just...

[1221] Well, you should be coaching.

[1222] Yeah, it's the fan in the crowd.

[1223] Punch him in the face.

[1224] Like, that's good advice.

[1225] No shit, I'm trying to punch him in the face.

[1226] I'm excited by the next level athletes and the next level ability that you're seeing in the sport that I think T .J. Dilshaw shows, like those kind of guys.

[1227] I think you're going to see a guy, like, eventually, who can move and strike like T .J., but kicks like Edson Barbosa.

[1228] You know what I'm saying?

[1229] Like you're going to see that with a guy who could wrestle like Johnny Hendricks.

[1230] You're going to see that with a guy who could submit guys like Damian Maya.

[1231] Like right now we're still in this growth stage.

[1232] We haven't hit the critical mass yet.

[1233] We haven't hit that one where we see the perfect Michael Jordan of MMA.

[1234] They don't exist yet.

[1235] I think you're starting to see glimpses of these possibilities.

[1236] And what T .J. showed this weekend, I think, is a great glimpse of that possibility.

[1237] And that's what excites me about fighting.

[1238] people think oh you're a fucking meathead you like watching people beat the shit out of each other and it's like i get it i look like a meathead you know i sound like a meathead it's a it's a crazy sport being a cage fighting commentator it's it's a crazy sport to be a part of people would assume that you're like some sort of an uncivilized fuckhead but my take on it is that we only live for a short amount of time anyway you live and you die and there are extreme exciting things that you can do with your life if you so choose to.

[1239] I think fighting is one of those things.

[1240] And I think at the very highest level, what it is is problem solving.

[1241] It's intense consequence problem solving.

[1242] And when you're looking at a guy like T .J. Dillshaw, he has created this problem solving solution with Dwayne Ludwig.

[1243] And their problem solving solution involves incredible athleticism, amazing determination, and a fanatical coach who has a deep, deep understanding of movement and striking in a way that I don't think any other coaches have.

[1244] The way Dwayne teaches this guys is so different.

[1245] I've worked out with him, man. He's on another level.

[1246] Like, he's all fucking Asperger's out when you're talking to him.

[1247] He gets crazy OCD, ADD, whatever the fuck it is.

[1248] But he starts rattling out.

[1249] I've watched him and T .J. hit Mitz together, too.

[1250] You watch him rattle out information.

[1251] like the intensity level and the amount of data that they're crunching and processing and how much thought is behind every single movement.

[1252] You know, a lot of guys when they throw punches, like you say, you throw a one, two, you'll sort of move a little bit forward with a jab and then you rotate the shoulders and the hips to throw the right hand.

[1253] Dwayne has the moving.

[1254] He's got, you move with the left, you move with the right.

[1255] And after you throw that right hand, you're moving again and you're throwing the left hook.

[1256] You're moving again when you're throwing the right hand.

[1257] You're not just rotating your shoulders.

[1258] You're stepping in or you're stepping back.

[1259] There's all these movements.

[1260] And when you see it in the Barow fight, especially that final flurry.

[1261] I mean, that's some shit from a fucking movie, man. I mean, he's going left and right and left and right.

[1262] He's not in front of him, Vitor Trey Tellegman.

[1263] You know, ba, ba, ba, ba, bam, bam, bam.

[1264] No, he's boom, boom, boom, sidestep, boom, boom, side step, boom, boom, sidest, boom, boom, sidest, boom, boom, boom.

[1265] It's like metric shit.

[1266] And, and Barow's fucking seeing him.

[1267] fireworks to spray at Disneyland and he's throwing these his arms aren't working for him and he's throwing these hooks just trying to stay alive and just pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop pop he's just getting lit up like a Christmas tree it was beautiful to watch it's a next level shit you know yeah I agree 100 % uh one of my heroes in the sport is Andre Petternaris I think he's my hero first of all because he as far as I understand it he was the first guy to bring poor kids into jihitsu and into mixed martial arts it was a rich kid sport and he would I mean, look at all the top guys from his gym.

[1268] They didn't have any money when they showed up there.

[1269] They'd live on the mats there, and he played sort of an avoncular or father role, and he brought him up.

[1270] And then he sent himself, because he learned striking.

[1271] He went to Holland.

[1272] He learned Dutch kickboxing.

[1273] And then he welded world -class jihitsu with Dutch kickboxing.

[1274] Dutch kickboxing is like Western boxing, plus Muay kicks and some karate kicks, and then a bunch of combinations.

[1275] In short, that's what it is.

[1276] And he learned he put those two together, and he created guys.

[1277] like Barrao and like Joseo but now there's another step and it's that bang Ludwig game yeah the next level shit it really is an interesting thing to watch it's an interesting thing to watch the progress it's so fascinating because again if you look back at football from like the 1960s if you look back and you watch some of the great players that played you know throughout history you will see better athletes today than you see then.

[1278] But the game is recognizable.

[1279] If you go back and watch UFC 1 from 1993, I mean, go back and watch a Marvin Hagler fight from 1988, you know, or 1985.

[1280] Watch Hagler fight Mustafa Ham Show or, you know.

[1281] That was a great fight.

[1282] Great fight.

[1283] Watch him fight, you know, anybody.

[1284] Watch him fight anybody from that era.

[1285] And then watch a really good boxing match today, and you'll see the same thing.

[1286] You're seeing the same sport You might see a guy in Floyd Mayweather Who has it down to a science And I think personally As far as boxing I think Floyd Mayweather is the best boxer ever Because I think he gets hit the least He moves the best and he shuts guys down the most You don't have to like him as a person You might think he's a douchebag or whatever But I think as far as like being a skillful boxer It's my personal opinion I mean I got an argument with it Max Kellerman was telling me Sugarie Robinson is the best I'm like, maybe.

[1287] Do you think Jake LaMotta would beat Floyd Mayweather?

[1288] I think you're fucking crazy if you believe that.

[1289] I don't think Jake Lamata would lay a glove on him.

[1290] I just don't believe that would happen.

[1291] I just don't see it happening.

[1292] I think if they were the same weight class, I think Floyd Mayweather would fucking pot shot Jake Lamata and tie him up and cut angles on him and move away from one of the ropes.

[1293] I just think he's better.

[1294] I think, yeah, Ray Robinson might have fought more times and fought more people and went all the way up to light heavyweight.

[1295] all that jazz, but I think Floyd's the best.

[1296] But when you look at Ray Robinson's fights, it's recognizable.

[1297] It's the same sport.

[1298] It's the same sport.

[1299] There's a little bit of a difference, a little more plotting.

[1300] They fought a little different.

[1301] They stood in the pocket a little bit more.

[1302] But Jesus Christ, you look at the difference between MMA from 93, shit, go to 95, look at M .M .A. from 20 years ago.

[1303] And look at it now.

[1304] It's not the same thing at all.

[1305] You watched T .J. Dillishaw's fight the other night.

[1306] Tell me there was anybody that he was even remotely similar to that just 10 years ago.

[1307] Forget about 20.

[1308] Too true.

[1309] It's amazing.

[1310] I was talking with my, I'm the records keeper for M .M .A. and my counterpart, the records keeper for boxing is Annie Marimontes.

[1311] A couple of two, three years ago.

[1312] I was talking with Annie and John McCarthy.

[1313] and McCarthy was talking about the fact that he owns a gym and he rolls with all the athletes and stuff and Annie Miramonti's got kind of a weird look in his face and he goes, wait a minute, you roll with these people because in boxing you have to keep a distance a separation between the officials and the athletes and what McCarthy said is this sport is evolving all the time and I can't do my job unless I'm in there actually rolling with the people and then he showed him a go -go -go -plata And Annie, the boxing comes like, oh, that's unbelievable.

[1314] And several years ago, the Gogolato was a fairly new move, and he just threw that out as an example of how boxing basically stays the same.

[1315] So if you're a records keeper or you're a referee, you are refereeing and officiating a sport that's been the same for 50 years, basically.

[1316] You don't have to know all the new things in it.

[1317] And MMA is just changing all the time.

[1318] And if you're an official involved in the sport, you've got to be on the mats every week or something's going to be coming up that you've never seen before.

[1319] Yeah, in Jiu -Jitsu, there's always some new move that someone figures out.

[1320] There's always something, some new way to do a choke, some new way to lock an arm bar in or attack a leg.

[1321] That combination that Jamie just put up on the big screen, this is T .J.'s final flurry against Henan Barrow.

[1322] You show me a painting that anybody ever made that looks better than this.

[1323] look at the way he just did that the way he's moving on him and look every time he's punching he stands in front of him he lands shots and then he moves boom moves to the left moving to the right look every time he's throwing these punches he's moving I mean this is like a sponge next level athlete and a kid like T .J. Dillshaw super dedicated got a perfect mind for the sport that became best friends with a fucking maniac like Dwayne Ludwig who's a world champion kickboxer who showed him how to do it And it's exactly how they did it in the locker room I was actually back there watching them warm up And that's exactly how they move when they warm up And he executes it exactly How Bang wants him to Look at that animated gif Like look at this movement I mean it's fucking incredible I mean Look at that That is insane And right in front of them Bing and then slides just out of the way Of the counter strikes This is incredible shit man I mean, I don't think there's been a guy in the sport that moves that good.

[1324] And what's really incredible is Dwayne never moved like that.

[1325] Dwayne's teaching them some shit that he figured out that he didn't even do himself.

[1326] I mean, Dwayne was a great kickboxer, but Dwayne was way more linear in his movements.

[1327] Like what T .J. is doing is some really crazy shit that Dwayne sort of figured out that T .J. can do.

[1328] And maybe the craziest thing about it is T. T .J. does have a base in something else.

[1329] He started off, obviously, as a wrestler.

[1330] There's a whole new generation coming up.

[1331] They were on the swim team where they played hockey or something.

[1332] They don't have any base in any sort of a thing.

[1333] All they're learning from the get -go is mixed martial arts.

[1334] Guys like Joe Proctor at a Christmas gym was a hockey player in high school and walked into the gym and never done any kind of combat sport all his life.

[1335] And I think with the whole next generation of Joe Proctor's is going to throw up stuff I can barely imagine.

[1336] Well, there's a school of thought that the best way is actually not that way, but rather the best way is to get really fucking good at one thing, to get, like, really good at kickboxing, and then dedicate yourself to learning MMA.

[1337] So you will always have this advantage in the striking, because we all know that to get really incredibly good at something almost requires, like, a singular dedication.

[1338] Sure.

[1339] Like, although T .J. is one of the world's best mixed martial arts fighters, for sure.

[1340] He's probably not one of the world's best strikers.

[1341] If you put him in, like, glory and you put him up against, like, one of the, you know, Andy Ristie or one of those really high -level Muay Thai guys, he might not be able to beat those guys.

[1342] But when it comes to putting all that shit together, he's one of the best at it.

[1343] But if you get a guy like Andy Ristey who learns all the shit that he's doing, the T .J.'s learning, then he will have an advantage over T .J., at least in that one aspect of the game.

[1344] Whereas T .J. will always have an advantage over him and wrestling, because that's his base.

[1345] There's an interesting schools of thought there that some people think that it's best to learn everything from the get -go, like a Rory McDonald.

[1346] Yeah, and some people think it's better to be like a Damien Maya.

[1347] You come in, you have this one insane discipline, the world -class Brazilian jiu -jitsu, and then everything else you've got to kind of learn to go with it.

[1348] But worst -case scenario, you could always take it to that place, and you'll have this giant advantage over everyone else.

[1349] Do you remember when Damien Maya took Rick Story down?

[1350] Like, Rick Stores is this fucking beast of a wrestler.

[1351] Super strong guy, but Damien Maya took him down, Smushed him Transitioned to his back And squoes his fucking head like a zit And I remember watching it going Holy shit I never saw anybody do that To Rick Story before But it's that next level Jiu -jitsu that he has That no one else has Or that, you know, very few I've watched that tape I don't know how we did it He did the same thing to Ed Herman Ed Herman was a team quest guy Good wrestler And he's like taking him down Mound him triangle them right Myrangle and finished him like this It was like when Damien Amai I went on that like three fight submission streak where he just ran through a guy.

[1352] What about Chale Sunnan?

[1353] Remember we lateral dropped him?

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] He lateral dropped him, went right into a mounted triangle and tapped him.

[1356] It's like, what the fuck?

[1357] And just to take Chale down like that, too, to fucking throw him like a rag doll.

[1358] It was crazy.

[1359] He's the next -level grappler.

[1360] But, you know, when he fought Anderson, like, good luck.

[1361] You couldn't even catch him.

[1362] But Anderson, that was a crazy fight.

[1363] That was the one in Abu Dhabi, where Anderson came out guns blazing for, like, the first two rounds, and then just took off.

[1364] Just died, yeah.

[1365] Just stop fighting for the last three.

[1366] As I understand it, that was a class warfare thing.

[1367] The play, he kept taunting him and calling him Playboy.

[1368] And I asked some Brazilian, why do you call him a Playboy?

[1369] Is that like a, it's kind of a compliment to call somebody a playboy, I think, in the States.

[1370] And he said, eh, it means kind of like a rich kid who's not too serious.

[1371] And, you know, obviously, Anderson Silva was raised by his uncle.

[1372] His uncle was a cop, and that his parents didn't have any money at all.

[1373] Didn't have the money to raise their own son, gave him to the cop.

[1374] And even the cop, I don't think, had a whole ton of money.

[1375] So he came up poor.

[1376] And I think that's where all the chutea box guys came from was poor neighborhoods.

[1377] And so there was some rivalry there.

[1378] And I think that's what was going on.

[1379] He knew he could beat him up, but just wanted to rough up the rich kid, the preppy kid.

[1380] It was crazy, but it was real weird to watch because it didn't make any sense.

[1381] Because Damien Maia was never really a shit -talker.

[1382] He's a gentleman.

[1383] So to see Anderson screaming at him and then not fighting for the last three rounds.

[1384] Like that whole arena was, they were so pissed Because this was a huge event in Abu Dhabi And it was right after Sheikh Tocoon had bought 10 % of the UFC It was kind of embarrassing for them to have that event there And have the greatest fighter in the world at the time, Anderson Fight this guy in Damien Maya who's well respected And people thinking this was going to be some sort of a crazy war And then Anderson just doesn't fight for the last three rounds I just moved around I remember afterwards Dana White said if he does it again I'm gonna fire him I was like, oh, my God, sweet Jesus, is the greatest fighter in the world, and that fight was so bad, you're going to fire him?

[1385] I know, that's crazy talk.

[1386] You know, how do you do that?

[1387] You can't really fire somebody.

[1388] Can't really fire a guy.

[1389] Winning.

[1390] Oh, winning, no. You know, I mean, he won.

[1391] But do that and lose?

[1392] Watch out.

[1393] Well, Anderson is a crazy, crazy sort of special example of a guy who had this aura of invincibility.

[1394] Everybody thought he was just indestructible until he met Wydemman.

[1395] and Weidman just smashed him And then all of a sudden he's not the same guy anymore Like you see him in the Nick Diaz fight When Nick Diaz fell to the ground And put his hands up like he was sleeping Because he was bored with him He's taunting him And you could see Anderson was fucking with his head To the point where after the fight was over Anderson fell to the ground It was crying after he beat Nick Diaz I mean he's crying, weeping, openly weeping I was standing over him while I was doing it He was openly weeping Just because it was so much pressure to get through it Because of those two fights with Weidman like Weidman stole something from him You know, he just beat him when he knocked him out And then the second fight when he broke his leg We didn't just beat him He like stole all of his confidence He stole who he was as a champion Those moments are crazy Because before that, when he fought Stefan Bonner in Brazil And put his back up against the cage He was like, come on, try to hit me And they just moved out of the way And then blasted him with the knee to the body And took him out And then jumped up on the cage And all the Brazilians went crazy I was like, who's better than that guy?

[1396] Who the fuck is going to beat that guy?

[1397] Meanwhile, Chris Wyven was watching the whole thing at home.

[1398] Not impressed.

[1399] Not impressed at all.

[1400] It's crazy.

[1401] It's crazy how that happens.

[1402] We get this idea in our head, whether it's a Mike Tyson or an Anderson -Slova or anybody.

[1403] We get this idea in our head that you can never be beat.

[1404] And it's one of the great things about any sport, especially fighting, is that you know there's going to come a day.

[1405] Sometimes you're the hammer and sometimes you're the nail.

[1406] It's going to come a day when you're the nail, bitch.

[1407] You know, you better get it.

[1408] get ready for or you better get out like George St. Pierre did.

[1409] Right.

[1410] And he's been the nail, you know.

[1411] He's been the nail with Matt Serra.

[1412] It's going to happen.

[1413] The mental game, I think, is way under, way, way, way underappreciated.

[1414] And it hit me when I was a kid.

[1415] I learned that Sir Roger Bannister, the first man to break the four -minute mile, everybody thought you couldn't break the four -minute mile.

[1416] And he finally did it.

[1417] And once he did it, within like 60 days, four other guys did it.

[1418] Because they knew it could be done.

[1419] Right.

[1420] And then when you have an idea in your head in sports, but particularly in combat sports, whether it's I'm invincible or I'm going to beat this guy or whatever, when you have that idea in your head, it's actually physically, physiologically, really, really powerful.

[1421] But that got taken away from Anderson, Sylva.

[1422] He realized he was not, in fact, invincible.

[1423] And then I think life's a lot tougher for him now.

[1424] Oh, it's way tougher.

[1425] Still my hero.

[1426] I think that's why a guy like McGregor right now.

[1427] He literally thinks he's invincible.

[1428] And it's that power of his mentality that pushes, he literally thinks he can't lose.

[1429] He can call his fights, call the round, and he does it because he's so confident.

[1430] It's not that he believes it, he knows it in his own head.

[1431] And it's powerful.

[1432] It carries him through just destroying these guys that.

[1433] Chad Mendes is a good fighter.

[1434] Chad Mendes is way out of shape for that fight.

[1435] Let's be honest about things.

[1436] First of all, Chad Mendes and Yerai's stated this, and Dwayne Ludwig said the same thing when I talked to him.

[1437] Chad takes time off in between fights.

[1438] He likes to go hunting.

[1439] He likes to spend time doing other shit.

[1440] And for him to accept a fight like that on two weeks notice, he did it because he thought he was going to be able to win anyway.

[1441] But if you gave Chad Mendes a full camp, if you gave Chad Mendes six to eight weeks and really let him know, three months preferable, it would be a different fight.

[1442] It would be a very different fight.

[1443] As long as he wasn't injured and, you know, Connor actually was injured going into that fight.

[1444] He had something wrong with his knee.

[1445] He was getting stem cell injections in his knee.

[1446] I heard that like eight weeks before the fight.

[1447] Chris told me that a couple months before.

[1448] A lot of people knew about that.

[1449] Bookies were talking about it.

[1450] But Chad just didn't have the win It was really obvious It was also obvious He wasn't prepared For that kind of fucking movement I mean it takes a long time To get ready for a guy Who can kick like Connor can You know And Connor's long and big For 145 He fucking sucks a lot of weight I don't know what the number is But I know that when he was there On weighing day He looked like skeletor I mean he looked like total Starvation And then the next day he looked big again You know he probably put on I wouldn't be shocked if he was 170 in the cage, 25 pounds.

[1451] He walks around at 170.

[1452] I wouldn't be surprised if he was that big in the cage.

[1453] I've known guys that have cut that much weight and put it all right back on.

[1454] So crazy.

[1455] And even the guys that don't cut a lot, the 55 is, they're still 68, 69.

[1456] They don't even have hard cuts.

[1457] What about Gleason T. Bow?

[1458] He's like 190 in the cage.

[1459] He's gigantic.

[1460] He fights at 155 and he's fucking huge.

[1461] I mean, he is a goddamn superhero.

[1462] He doesn't even look like a real person when he gets in that cage.

[1463] He's just so muscular and thick and just it doesn't make any sense.

[1464] I actually have no idea how he does it.

[1465] It's too much.

[1466] And he competes though.

[1467] Oh, yeah.

[1468] He doesn't like gas because of it.

[1469] He has a gas tank on, usually there's guys that get sucked down a lot.

[1470] They've got the good round in them and they kind of tire.

[1471] But Tebow can fight three -fives, no problem being that gigantic after a huge weight cut.

[1472] Yeah, well, biodiversity is a real thing.

[1473] Some people just have abilities that other people just don't have.

[1474] like Cain Velazquez has always had this incredible ability to have this phenomenal cardio, which was so ironic.

[1475] Here's another example of a guy you think is invincible, and then Fabricio Verdoom literally out -cardiode Cain by training really hard and doing a lot of cardio at 8 ,000 feet above elevation above sea level.

[1476] And Cain just thought, hey, I got the best cardio in the sport.

[1477] I don't even need to go to Mexico early.

[1478] So they're fighting in Mexico City as heavyweight, it's a 7 ,500 feet above sea level, super high.

[1479] altitude, ridiculous for heavyweights.

[1480] And Fabricio had been training a thousand feet above that.

[1481] He really prepared.

[1482] He really got ready for it.

[1483] And you see cane gassing.

[1484] And you see cane gassing in that second round.

[1485] I was like, I don't even fucking believe what I'm seeing.

[1486] Cain Velazquez is exhausted.

[1487] He's going back to his corner on rubbery legs.

[1488] He's taking these big heaving deep breasts.

[1489] I'm like, I've never seen this from him before.

[1490] The UFC had one of their, I don't know if it was an embedded.

[1491] There was some kind of a little video that they shot.

[1492] of Verdum in his camp and I saw he was sleeping on the floor they showed he did four fighters in the room and he just had a tiny little wasn't even a cot he just had a pallet on the floor and I looked at that I looked at the elevation I was like this guy's gonna win he's sleeping on the floor for two months at a time he's at elevation he's gonna win this fight you can sleep on the floor all day wrong Chris Wybner still punch your fucking face in he'll have a nice comfy bed wake up with his little fucking footy pajamas on and beat this shit out of you I don't know if that that helps we were just talking about wide when we were trying to figure out exactly why he's so dominant and we don't have any genius answers his brother beat him up his brother beat him up all his life his brother brutalized him his dad's an NFL player his brother was an animal and his brother bullied him and uh i think when you grow up like that you're constantly defending yourself against your brother i think that's one of the reasons why matt hughes was so dominant him and his brother used to beat the fuck out of each other i think that's one of the reason why john jones is such a badass.

[1493] Him and his brothers are all super athletes and they beat the fuck out of each other.

[1494] I think that is super normal.

[1495] I think when you develop in a household where you're constantly competing with your own brother.

[1496] And in Wydenman's case, his brother was older than him.

[1497] His brother was older and bigger.

[1498] And that's not like bad stories that came out of that too.

[1499] He had to go to the hospital once.

[1500] I think his brother dropped a weight plate on his head.

[1501] I don't know if that's a true story, but that's what I heard.

[1502] My brother and I have caused bloody wounds more than once growing up.

[1503] But he still ended up a pussy.

[1504] I don't understand.

[1505] Like, you got beat up his whole life.

[1506] He's right here, and he doesn't have a mic.

[1507] This is so fucked up.

[1508] It's so wrong.

[1509] Well, I just think that there's an advantage in that, a psychological advantage of not being afraid, because you're constantly going to war with your own brother.

[1510] You know, you just develop a steel, hardened sense of competition where you're just ready to go.

[1511] You're ready to go.

[1512] I'm ready to go right now, motherfucker.

[1513] You're ready to go.

[1514] You know, like, you have this.

[1515] Like, when Chris Wybin got in Anderson Silva's face, when they first waited and Anderson Silva walked up, him and kissed him like he pressed face and Wyman didn't move and Anderson staring at him and say we'll see tomorrow he goes I'm not afraid to you motherfucker that's what he said he goes I'm not afraid of you and you could see in his eyes like it wasn't like I'm not afraid to you man like there's no craziness it was just a real calm I'm not afraid of you man I'm not afraid of you and Wydenman was like tomorrow we will see we will see yeah but looking even there you see how goddamn big Wyatman is yeah he's big and this is when he weighed in at 185, you know, the amount of weight that that guy cuts, I don't know how much it is, but it's not a small amount.

[1516] It's multiple pounds because when he fought Damien Maya, that was a fight that he had to take on Fox on very short notice, and he sucked a tremendous amount of weight to fight that fight, and he was just absolutely drained and exhausted because of it.

[1517] Even when they put the water back on him, one of the things that Ray Longo said in between the corner, he said, I saw what you did yesterday to make weight.

[1518] If you did that, you could fucking do anything.

[1519] Go out there and kick his ass.

[1520] He had to say that to Wydenman when Wyden was exhausted.

[1521] I didn't realize how strong Wydenman was until he did that helicopter kneebar on Anderson Silva.

[1522] And that blew my mind as much as anything I've ever seen in a fight.

[1523] Lorenzo Fertita talks about how the whole sport is based on holy fucking shit moments.

[1524] He's every single UFC at some point something's going to happen that makes you go, holy fucking shit.

[1525] And that's the heart of the sport.

[1526] For me, it was when he did that helicopter knee bar on Andy's.

[1527] Anderson Silva.

[1528] I'm like, really?

[1529] You're trying to kneebar him?

[1530] And he got kind of close.

[1531] That's when I realized mentally, he's just at another level.

[1532] He wasn't scared of taking him down.

[1533] He knew he could take him down.

[1534] Well, what got me was the Vitor fight.

[1535] When he shot on Vitor, that was such a deep double.

[1536] And when he shot on him and clasped his hands together, I'm like, no one's defending this.

[1537] He's not defending this.

[1538] And then once he got Vitor to the ground, the difference between, first of all, the difference between Vitor, the Vitor that fought rock holes, the Vitor that fought Bisping.

[1539] I mean, he's just not the same dude.

[1540] You take away the TRT.

[1541] Yeah, TRT gone.

[1542] No testosterone injections, and he's just this fucking regular guy.

[1543] He actually has had a deficit because his body has really low testosterone as opposed to a normal 36, 37 -year -old man. His body, I mean, he's been taking that shit for so long.

[1544] I mean, if you go back to the Randy Couture fight, look, we were talking about before, it was 240 pounds.

[1545] He's been messing with his system and hyperhuman levels for so long that his regular endocrine system is probably really fucked up.

[1546] That's also the fight where Wyman got in his face of the weigh -ins and he was yelling on him about the levels that he showed in camp because his levels in camp were three times higher than Wydman's.

[1547] The level that they tested on.

[1548] But acceptable, right?

[1549] It's acceptable.

[1550] It was under the limit, but it was 1 ,200.

[1551] And this is a guy that needed testosterone replacement.

[1552] I mean, it's all...

[1553] Something wasn't right.

[1554] And Wyman was like, you're fucking juicing, you're fucking juice.

[1555] juicing.

[1556] He goes, I know you're fucking juicing in camp.

[1557] And he goes, I'm going to make you pay for it.

[1558] I'm going to punish you for this tomorrow.

[1559] And he could see Vitor's eyes, like, oh, and he said something to him.

[1560] I couldn't hear what he said to him.

[1561] So I asked Wyman what he said, and, you know, he just was going off about the levels.

[1562] He goes, I knew something was wrong with his levels.

[1563] You know, he goes, I'm busting my ass.

[1564] I'm 10 years younger than him, and I'm testing at 300.

[1565] You know, and that's what, what happens the guys in camp.

[1566] They break down.

[1567] I mean, you're going through these two and three of days, and you're just goddamn exhausted.

[1568] You're just trying to push through it, trying to push through it just to keep your conditioning high.

[1569] And when he found out the Vitor's level, he was so angry.

[1570] And he was so fucking angry.

[1571] And then he did punish him for it.

[1572] When he got him down, he beat him out bad.

[1573] He beat him out bad.

[1574] That was a bad beat down.

[1575] I never saw Vitor in that sort of a position either.

[1576] Mounted like that with just no hope of getting up.

[1577] Yeah, wanting to be out of there.

[1578] Yeah, there it is.

[1579] So hopeless he was punching up, which we know it doesn't work for the bottom of the mountains.

[1580] Shit never works.

[1581] That shit worked in like...

[1582] He was just flailing, like he was trying to hit him back, and Wyman was just smashing him, just boom, boom, boom, boom.

[1583] And look at his face, he's just so, like...

[1584] See if you can get a video, Jamie, the final flurry.

[1585] It was awful.

[1586] But it's also like Vitor's body when he got into the cage, like all this loose skin.

[1587] It was all...

[1588] It was weird.

[1589] It was weird to see.

[1590] It's like he looked like a welterweight.

[1591] Like, he could be welterweight, like easy.

[1592] If he could stay off the shit, he could be a 170.

[1593] Like, and not a big one.

[1594] You compare him to like Brandon Thatch Like Thatch is a big Welterweight Or like Anthony Johnson when he made Welterweight Holy shit That didn't even make sense He made it once I think for sure Made it three or four times He made it three or four times A couple times he missed it And now he has to cut weight to get light heavy weight Chris and I were at Mask's funeral And that was the first time I'd met him in person And it's one of the most He was like 240 It was one of the most unbelievable things I've never seen If you were at Mass funeral I was there too So we saw each other Yeah You remember that fucking blowhard speech that the director went up and gave that mask died on a certain day so that he could promote the movie do you remember that shit i do remember that guy and i heard he barely even knew him that they were not they were not best friends or i just assumed was a best friend and he was distraught and that's why he was being a blow hard the guy shouldn't even been able to talk at the funeral i mean that's how literally know him and he went up and gave this unbelievably ridiculous Hollywood speech of mask dying at a start I was wondering why did he die at this time and then I realized he died so that he could promote our movie which is coming out June 20 blue Hollywood it was so gross Hollywood it was so gross like every you heard like oh you heard it like all throughout the the room like all these people going oh fucking Christ but it was one of those things where no one could say anything because you're trying to be respectful because it's at you know this funeral and then like Dan punk ass went up and told like a real heartfelt thing and you could sell like that was this really good friend and a brother and he was they were just he was really broken up and like you know Tim went up and he was really broken up and this guy goes up and gave this fucking disgusting speech how disgusting I mean like on a one to ten it was a ten it was always a ten oh yeah that was that was perfectly disgusting and I I just assumed that he was being so inappropriate because he was broken up inside and I asked a couple people like they weren't very they were barely they were acquaintances he's just a fraud just one of those Hollywood frauds who were the two guys that tried to fight at the dinner afterwards like two guys are in the UFC maybe I won't name's but two guys in the UFC we were the dinner but it's still like a somber experience you know we just came from the funeral and two guys in UFC almost got into a fight at dinner like yelling and screaming at each other and someone just set up like guys shut the fuck down you're at the memorial dinner like relax Jesus That's so crazy Some people can't let it go There's no safe place I'm pretty sure they never fought to this day though Because I think they're in different weight classes now But here's the final thing With Vitor and Wydeman Vitor's trying to hit him Vitor had him hurt He hit him with a couple good shots And Chris stayed right in front of him And took the shot And then once he got him down He just started smashing him He moved into full mount and just beat the fuck out of them.

[1595] Here we go, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[1596] Just brutalized them.

[1597] You know, it's an old, old, old line.

[1598] But you talk about punch a black belt once and he's a brown belt and so on.

[1599] And Vitor just got punched into being a white belt.

[1600] Well, I don't know, you know, how good Vitor's just straight ground game is.

[1601] I've never seen him roll jujitsu with like a high -level guy.

[1602] I've never seen it.

[1603] I saw him almost catch.

[1604] He almost caught John Jones with an arm bar, But John kind of wasn't respecting his ground game.

[1605] He's just kind of leaving it out there.

[1606] It just wasn't like a difficult arm bar to catch.

[1607] I mean, any purple belt who's worth his salt could have got that same kind of arm bar if a guy's like doing that with his arm.

[1608] But I want to love to see like, you know, you hear about guys like this guy's a black belt, that guy's a black belt.

[1609] Like what level are they really?

[1610] Like in a real jiu -jitsu sense, you know?

[1611] It used to be like 10 years ago.

[1612] You heard black belt.

[1613] You're like, this guy's got to be amazing.

[1614] And now you hear a black belt, you know, like, well, what kind of black belt?

[1615] Right, exactly.

[1616] Because there are black belts and there are black belts.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] There's like the Marcella Garcia's of the world.

[1619] Sure.

[1620] The John Jacquess of the world.

[1621] You know, there's black belts that just can chew up other black belts.

[1622] And then there's black belts who tap other black belts.

[1623] You know, like Comprito got tapped by Hodger Gracie at that, the UFC event.

[1624] You know, they have the grappling thing.

[1625] Yeah, the expo.

[1626] But look, Comprito.

[1627] is obviously like super high level black belt but hodra gracy is another level that's another level and like it's hard to explain that to people when they say like well this guy's a blackball and that guy's a well here's a deal that guy could do anything he wants to me but that guy could do anything you want to him like there's levels there's levels to the shit and it's it's it's hard to wrap you and you can't really quantify it as like black or purple or red or you know it's like at a certain point time it's just a matter That's Hodge of Gracie, and this is just all there is to it.

[1628] Because I've rolled with black belts, and I'm pretty competitive, and then I've rolled with the higher -end guys, and I feel like I'd never learn J -Jitsu.

[1629] Roll with Eddie tonight.

[1630] I've rolled with Eddie before.

[1631] Wonderful time.

[1632] Yeah, I'll roll with Eddie before.

[1633] I can't wait to get fucking tortured by him.

[1634] I've rolled with Eddie before a couple times out here.

[1635] Wonderful time getting tied up in a fucking night.

[1636] Eddie?

[1637] He's completely responsible for my ears, all the cauliflower.

[1638] No. 100%.

[1639] No. I didn't have cauliflower for seven years.

[1640] I had a fight.

[1641] Because his high guard is so tight.

[1642] I had a fight, and I got hit a couple times, so my ears were sore.

[1643] I came to L .A. for, like, a month.

[1644] I trained with Eddie a lot.

[1645] And the first night, he just put me in his rubber guard and just shins rubbing across my ears for, like, four hours.

[1646] And I left, and they were fucking, like, they were, like, out like, tear.

[1647] Why didn't you drain them?

[1648] So, I didn't know about draining them back then.

[1649] This was like, I had no idea.

[1650] I'm like, I did you not know about draining years.

[1651] They were doing that in the 50s.

[1652] I don't know.

[1653] Couldn't have a wrestle, though.

[1654] There's a Roman statue.

[1655] Have you seen the statue of a gladiator with cauliflower ear that's leaking?

[1656] It's got a cut on the cauliflower ear, and there's drops coming out of the ear.

[1657] So I have ears like this, and the next night I go to Big John's Gym, and he looks at me, he goes, holy fuck, your ears are big!

[1658] And he's like, you want me to drain them?

[1659] I'm like, I don't know what that means.

[1660] And he's like, come with me, and he takes me out and drains my ears.

[1661] And they go down, but I never got them, like, cut out and stitch.

[1662] They're just fucking big now.

[1663] Well, they could fix that, too.

[1664] My friend Brent had his ears cut open.

[1665] They filet them like a salmon, and they get in there, and they scrape out all the cartilage.

[1666] I had that shit in my nose.

[1667] Oh.

[1668] Yeah.

[1669] Well, I always wear ear guards, so my ears are okay.

[1670] I have, like, a little bit of cauliflower and a few spots, but most of it is fine.

[1671] But my nose had been broken so many times that what cauliflower ear is when your skin breaks and it fills up with blood, the blood remains in the blood remains in the in the skin, and then it calcifies.

[1672] So when the blood is trapped under the surface of the skin, it bulges up in like the little hematoma or whatever you would call it, that blood becomes hard.

[1673] It calcifies and literally becomes like a stone in your body.

[1674] That's why cauliflower ears are hard as a rock, because they are a rock.

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] It's a calcium rock.

[1677] So what they can do is they cut you open, and then they scrape that stuff out, and then they stitch you back up.

[1678] There's the Roman statue.

[1679] I think it's Roman.

[1680] It might be Greek.

[1681] Is it Roman or Greek?

[1682] Says Roman?

[1683] See those cuts and it's leaking.

[1684] I mean, that's crazy.

[1685] It's cauliflower ear.

[1686] They had it back then.

[1687] Not only did they have cauliflower ear back then, but an MD in New York saw this.

[1688] And he believes, he's pretty confident that that's actually draining an ear.

[1689] It wasn't just the guy got hit in the ear, cauliflower, and he was bleeding.

[1690] He believes that that's a medical procedure.

[1691] Wow.

[1692] And that they were cutting and draining the ear on purpose in 1100 BC or whenever it was.

[1693] That's crazy because it makes sense if you, I mean, you don't really see slices like that.

[1694] Right, right.

[1695] I use mine as a weapon now.

[1696] Like when I'm grappling, I like grind it into someone's head and pull the other side because it's as hard as a rock, like you said.

[1697] Yeah, look at that picture of the guy when you scroll down.

[1698] That's all my website.

[1699] I blogged about that a couple of years.

[1700] Oh, really?

[1701] Yeah, that's the U .G. Wow, that's crazy.

[1702] One of my favorite cauliflower ear stories is I shot a boxing from a May DVD with Joe Loz on his brother Danny and their boxing trainer and Danny comes in late and he's like I can't shoot this look at my ear and his ear was all huge and Joe's like oh I can fix this so they get a needle and they go in the bathroom and Joe jams a needle in and Danny starts screaming and they're basically in a fist fight with each other with a needle through the ear and somebody looks in and he goes dude that needle is going all the way through the ear so the needle didn't stop in the middle to drain the fluid out it had skewered all the way through Danny he's here and the two of them are wrestling around with each other and screaming at each other.

[1703] That's on video somewhere.

[1704] It is on video somewhere.

[1705] Well, there's another example.

[1706] Two brothers would beat the fuck out of each other and they both became very tough.

[1707] There's a bunch.

[1708] You ever see the video of them fighting on the front lawn at their house?

[1709] And they were fighting.

[1710] It was like NHB, head butts and elbow.

[1711] But Joe used to always get the better of it.

[1712] Yeah, he was always the big brother.

[1713] He started training first.

[1714] That's the problem.

[1715] He's good, man. He just doesn't have that same drive that Joe has, like the mental side.

[1716] Danny is incredible.

[1717] He's the guy that, like, leaves the gym for four months, comes in and beats up everybody.

[1718] But he doesn't have that, like, whatever it is.

[1719] To stay in shape.

[1720] To stay motivated, to stay in the gym.

[1721] Is he still fighting?

[1722] I know he fought in World Series of fight recently.

[1723] Yeah, he's fighting August 16th for a local show up down in Rhode Island.

[1724] Is he in shape?

[1725] Did he train hard now?

[1726] Yeah, he's training now pretty well.

[1727] With you guys?

[1728] Yeah, and he trained to the couple of local gyms.

[1729] There they are.

[1730] Yeah.

[1731] This is like, oh, this is before the UFC, 2002 maybe.

[1732] Oh, my God.

[1733] Yeah, this is a fight.

[1734] They fight twice because Joe wins, and then Daniel wants to fight again.

[1735] Oh, my God, look at this.

[1736] Did he win by Arm Bar here?

[1737] I think he does.

[1738] I don't remember specifically, no. It's so crazy that these brothers just beat the shit out of each other.

[1739] And this is, like, all family on the front lawn watching.

[1740] That's so crazy.

[1741] And they're fighting.

[1742] Yeah.

[1743] I mean, they are fucking fighting.

[1744] Yeah, this is a tight -ass triangle.

[1745] Does he tap here?

[1746] Yeah, but then he pushes him and they fight again.

[1747] There it is.

[1748] Biggie the Ruff That's literally like a South Shore community family street Like the neighbors are there Like the cousins are there You guys had a pig roast too right?

[1749] Yeah Well his parents for years had a pig roast every summer So that's where we were There's like a hundred people there And I don't know how it even started It's just hey like fuck you Fuck you fuck you And then they put the shorts on and a cup And gloves and the whole deal I told you funny Danny Since he was 18 has never worn jeans with out sprawl shorts underneath him for his entire adult life he's always ready to go so he just takes his pants off and can yeah you know he's he wears his pants loose he's got big jeans have you seen these pants called uh they call them barbell shorts no look at they're not shorts uh barbell jeans barbell brand jeans look at that i'm wearing them right now these guys sent them to me they're jeans but they're stretchy oh shit dude they're incredible i think i need it really is Strette.

[1750] Look at this.

[1751] They don't hold you back at all.

[1752] They don't bind up at all.

[1753] Like you could throw full power kicks at these things.

[1754] Can you work out in it?

[1755] Can you squat?

[1756] Yeah, you could do anything.

[1757] There's no worry about the way your legs move.

[1758] I want to have to Google those things.

[1759] It's like having tights on.

[1760] Barbell jeans?

[1761] Yeah, I have no, they're called, yeah, this is a company.

[1762] I have no affiliation with them.

[1763] They just sent me a pair of these and I fucking love them.

[1764] They're amazing.

[1765] They make shorts now too.

[1766] So they have, uh, the MMA shorts have the same.

[1767] material, but the jeans look and feel like jeans except in the way you move.

[1768] There's just some sort of elastic quality to the pants.

[1769] And this is a new company.

[1770] I've bought some before from some other companies that make them like for hockey players and stuff because I don't fit in regular pants because I have a fucking troll body.

[1771] I have a really I wear a 32, but I have to wear a belt.

[1772] I really have a 30 inch waist, but I have big ass thighs.

[1773] And so I have to, like a lot of I wear a 33 -inch pants, straight leg, just so I can get them past my mid -thigh.

[1774] Because otherwise, I can't, like, Levi's 501s are a joke.

[1775] I can't even wear them.

[1776] I literally can't get them on.

[1777] Like, they get to right here and they just lock up.

[1778] But these barbell pants, they just fit like a glove.

[1779] It's incredible.

[1780] And look at that.

[1781] Look at all they stretch.

[1782] They snap.

[1783] We were talking about how technology improves things.

[1784] This is embarrassing, but I remember in the 80s, I bought Chuck Norris kicking jeans.

[1785] They had ties in the front And a pleaded crotch And the advertisement was the secret It's in the crotch Somehow I found that compelling And Chuck Nars Always threw kicks with fucking cowboy boots on He always had those cowboy boots on With the heel, the wooden heel Look at them There is!

[1786] He's the fucking piss Awesome 1995, that's what I paid Well they had a guss it And then there's another brand called Diamond Gusset jeans, and I used to buy those a lot, too.

[1787] And that's what they were, it was like a regular pair of jeans, but they put a gusset and a crotch so that you can move around better.

[1788] But none of those can fuck.

[1789] Don't bind your legs.

[1790] Don't bind your legs.

[1791] But none of those can fuck with the barbell jeans.

[1792] Barbell jeans, they nailed it.

[1793] They know what the fuck they're doing.

[1794] But those tie in the front, that's bullshit.

[1795] That's how those they used to have those karate, PKK karate pants.

[1796] I used to wear those with my taekwondo ghee.

[1797] My taekwondo, the Dobok.

[1798] I used to wear those different pants, the century pants, that tied up in the front because they kicked better.

[1799] They were better.

[1800] They were looser on your body.

[1801] They figured out a way to make them less binding.

[1802] Like even moitai shorts, man. A lot of moitai shorts fucking bind on you.

[1803] Yeah, they see a lot.

[1804] You see it in like Alan Belch used to fight.

[1805] They'd be all rolled up to his waist.

[1806] They pulled them up because Alan has those giant tree trunk.

[1807] legs, you know, and a lot of those pants they bind out, like Melvin Manhoff, he would wear like a gladiator skirt, you know, because his legs are huge.

[1808] I wonder if it is a Western body kind of a thing, because I've never really seen a Thai guy with huge, huge, huge thighs.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] Maybe they're designed for more slight 145 to 105 pound tie fighters.

[1811] Definitely.

[1812] I mean, why would they design them for people that don't even wear them in their world, at least?

[1813] but the the thing about like guys who weight lift if you lift weights and you develop that big ass fucking football player thighs or something like that regular pants is not going to fit you I'm always amazed when I wear XL I'm like I'm fucking 58 what about a real Excel person what the hell do they wear you know how is how am I in Excel what the fuck does a guy like Big John wear or Stefan Struve I mean how many X's is in his fucking clothes they must be custom made i mean how many guys are stephen strous and big john is 250 or something 240 i mean he would love you if you said he was 250 i heard don't talk about his weight though recently don't ask him about it don't ask him well if you go back to ufc1 and you look at him then you look at him now something about the diet hmm yeah i don't think he's 240 i think he's quite a bit bigger than that but point being it's probably he's a real excel dude that's a real i'm not fucking excel so what what why do they do that who the hell's small who the hell is wearing a small the son of you have to be really i can't get in a small what are you looking at it's it's bizarre it's bizarre the sizing you know the people have i think in the future we're going to get all of our clothes from uh 3d printers that's what i think just printed to fit yeah i really do they're they're doing all kinds of crazy shit with 3d printers now i think that's probably the future of pretty much everything You're making firearms already.

[1814] And firearms are something that gets subject to a lot more stress than clothing does.

[1815] I mean, if you can make firearms pretty soon, they'll be able to make clothing on demand.

[1816] I think that's what you're going to get, like, everything.

[1817] If you want to buy a computer, what you're going to do is you're going to, you know, it's like buying a license for your computer from somewhere.

[1818] You're going to get a license for it.

[1819] And then you're just going to, like, you know, like a one -click on Apple or something like that.

[1820] And then you're just going to print up your computer.

[1821] I really think that.

[1822] I think you're just going to have, like, a printer.

[1823] but that printer's going to have raw materials like metals and, you know, minerals or whatever you need for batteries or what have you, and you're just going to print it.

[1824] Have you invested in any of that?

[1825] No. This is one of the most, you know, L .A. is one of the most creative areas in the world, obviously.

[1826] It's more Silicon Valley.

[1827] You know, that's where all the computer stuff is going down.

[1828] You must have opportunities, though, to...

[1829] People must approach you with all kinds of stuff.

[1830] I'm not investing in anything.

[1831] I don't have time to do what I'm already doing.

[1832] I'm trying to size down.

[1833] I'm trying to do less shit.

[1834] The last thing I want to do is this.

[1835] guy making a t -shirt here jami is that what this is look at this oh so they're ready they're already ready look every time this is my problem i never have an idea they've already done it there's a video online about it let me see the video that's just a gift that's not doing the full completion yeah oh okay so so what he does is he takes uh a pattern in there locks in place and that's the printer and then it just starts adding material to that pattern wow makes sense man it's and then it A wife beater, put it on, and you fucking go to the pizza place, order a slice.

[1836] It's funny that they use wife beaters.

[1837] Why did they decide to use a wife beater there?

[1838] Right.

[1839] Is that your target market, the wife beater market?

[1840] Yeah, a lot of dudes who beat the shit out of their wives, they like to make their own shirts.

[1841] Just in the future, man. I think medical technology is the most fascinating thing as far as MMA about healing people.

[1842] like figuring out a way to fix brains, figuring out a way to people that have been injured, you know, people that have been caoed.

[1843] They're talking about, you know, taking people that have been injured and directly putting him in, like, cry oak chambers, and that the amount of damage that they can stop and the damage they can mitigate.

[1844] And once they can figure out how to, right now, there's no real technology to reverse brain damage.

[1845] You know, like if you break your arm, they can fix it.

[1846] you know if you have a knee injury they can fix your ligaments if you have a brain injury you're pretty fucked you know there's not a whole lot they can do you know they can help you try to heal yourself there's a little bit of therapy they can do is a few new ways they can kind of mitigate the issues but for the most part when you have a brain injury you have a brain injury yeah put you in a helmet so you don't get worse they they really don't know i've got a friend of the family girl I used to babysit who had a terrible brain injury from that street luge sport.

[1847] She banged the hell out of her head.

[1848] And the doctor just said, don't go outside for six months and don't read any books for six months.

[1849] Don't read any books.

[1850] Don't do anything.

[1851] Just cocoon your entire consciousness from the entire outside world, sterilize the house.

[1852] And after, like, I think, four months she said, you can get a baby chicken.

[1853] Because, you know, don't spend a lot of time with people because that's an awful lot of thought.

[1854] a cat would be too interactive, but she thought a little baby chick would be some human thing you could interact with a little bit, low, low, low.

[1855] But, you know, a top MD at Mass General Hospital saying, buy a chicken to fix your brain indicates at the level of understanding is, as you said, very low.

[1856] There's not much they can do.

[1857] Don't even talk to people.

[1858] Yeah.

[1859] They do that.

[1860] She had some family money and sort of cocooned herself away.

[1861] How old was she when this happened?

[1862] mid -40s.

[1863] Oh my God.

[1864] Mid -40s when it happened?

[1865] Yeah.

[1866] Whoa.

[1867] So she was on a street luge, like a skateboard type thing?

[1868] rolling down the hill?

[1869] I don't understand the sport well, but...

[1870] Like, they do with the X -Games.

[1871] It's like a bobsled on wheels and they go on steep hills.

[1872] It makes you think about all those videos that you laugh at on Live Leak where a guy gets fucking clipped on his ankles by a car and flips through the air and lands on his back.

[1873] I can't watch any of those.

[1874] How many people who just get so fucked up by those things and we never think about it again.

[1875] Yeah, or the guy's dead.

[1876] You see him on Tosh in those shows.

[1877] They get hit by a truck going across the highway.

[1878] You're like, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[1879] I'm like, maybe that guy's dead or brain dead.

[1880] Well, there was a guy in L .A., or California, Southern California, that got in trouble recently because they were drifting.

[1881] And he drifted into a past, into a bystander, clipped him.

[1882] There's a video of it.

[1883] See if you can find out Jopo Link.

[1884] drifter hits pedestrian and took off.

[1885] I don't know what the story is, but they were all trying to find this guy, and it was a total hit and run.

[1886] He clipped this guy with the side of his car as he was going sideways, and you would think you would, like, fall, like got knocked back or something.

[1887] No, you flip through the fucking air, like you weigh nothing.

[1888] You flip through the air, like one of those little paper footballs, you know, you know when you do those things?

[1889] He's playing great school.

[1890] Yeah, you remember those?

[1891] That's what it looks like when this guy gets clipped sideways by his ankle.

[1892] and goes hurling through the air.

[1893] It's terrifying.

[1894] And now, you know, my exposure to people getting hit in the head is so much more than the average persons.

[1895] I don't think this is it, but it's one of them.

[1896] Here's one.

[1897] Oh, no, that's different.

[1898] That guy got hit head on.

[1899] That guy broke his legs.

[1900] This one, he got hit with the back and he goes hurling through the air.

[1901] But point being, I can't look at those anymore and not think about the consequences.

[1902] I know there's a woman who fights in the evening, UFC that um not even the her last fight but the fight before that fucked her up so much that to this day she's got all these hormone problems her cortisol levels are too high she gains weight she doesn't know why she gets depressed she doesn't know why her equilibrium's all fucked up and it's not even from her last fight it's from the fight before her last fight yeah and we don't think about it because we watch those fights what a war wow those girls really fucking put it out there you move on you with your life and then she the lights go off, you know, the spotlights are down and she's by herself, her fucking head's going the throbbing and the pain and the aches.

[1903] I'm sure both of you've experienced that before.

[1904] Every day of the week pretty much at my gym.

[1905] I'm like the punching bag at my gym because I'm just...

[1906] Here it is.

[1907] There it is.

[1908] That's the one.

[1909] Watch this.

[1910] Watch this.

[1911] He goes sideways.

[1912] Watch this guy.

[1913] Oh.

[1914] See how the guy flies through the end?

[1915] Look at this.

[1916] Oh, yeah.

[1917] Oh, my God.

[1918] It's crazy, right?

[1919] Bing.

[1920] Yeah, I don't want to watch that again.

[1921] But don't go to the street while people are drifting.

[1922] Cocky bitch.

[1923] Don't watch the street while they're doing it.

[1924] Yeah, I don't know if they caught that guy.

[1925] Find out if they caught that guy.

[1926] But the damage of these guys receive on a daily basis, like we were talking about the Roy McDonald fight, or like a lot of these fights, you watch it and you don't think about it.

[1927] You just go on with your life.

[1928] But every now and then, you'll run in.

[1929] into one of those guys years later from that doesn't fight anymore and you're like whatever happened to that guy and then you'll see him somewhere and you're like oh shit yeah and you'll talk to him you'll hear him slurring their words I remember the first time I was training in in Boston and my boxing coach was this guy Joe Lake who went up training Dana Rosenblatt remember Dana Rosenblatt?

[1930] Remember Dana Rosenblatt?

[1931] Dangerous.

[1932] Yeah Dangerous Dana Rosenblatt who was a training partner mine he was one of the guys that got me convinced me to stop fighting because i realized like i wasn't training the way he was training because i was trying to do comedy and all these different things at the same time but i was still fighting and i really didn't i wasn't realizing how much dedication i had let slip by until i watched him train i trained with him and i realized okay i need to get out of here and i'm always i was only 21 at the time he was like 17 or 18 i think he was 18 but um we we trained at this gym with a bunch of like really tough guys and Joe Lake who is my boxing coach was that that prototypical South Boston boxing trainer was fucking wars it was wars in the gym every day there was wars there wasn't no pity pat bullshit you you were going to war and I watched a few guys that I knew from a few years back come in the gym and they would just slur and start talking funny I was like holy shit I'm looking at fucking brain damage like I'm looking at it and here's a guy that I knew five years ago and he didn't have it.

[1933] And now I'm talking to him.

[1934] I haven't seen him in a while, and he's got it.

[1935] And it started to sink in.

[1936] Like, these headaches that I'm getting from these training sessions, like, this isn't free.

[1937] I'm not, I'm not immune, you know, like, and you watch Joe Frazier talk on TV.

[1938] Where do you think that came from?

[1939] It came from getting punched in the head.

[1940] There's no way around it.

[1941] The thing about it that I find that haunts me, and yeah, I'll be honest, it haunts because it may start happening in our sport is CT sometimes doesn't manifest itself until five or even ten years after retirement.

[1942] The guy's fine.

[1943] It could be a commentator on TV.

[1944] Everything in his brain is working well and then five years kicks in, six years, and all of a sudden he starts getting a little more aggressive and his gait isn't as good.

[1945] He becomes a different person and his soul starts to piss away.

[1946] That's scary.

[1947] If that starts to happen, it'll give me pause for a lot.

[1948] That doesn't scare you, Chris?

[1949] You're just staring at the table.

[1950] Think about your brain.

[1951] I don't know.

[1952] I've never been really hit hard enough, I guess.

[1953] My head's gigantic.

[1954] I'd never been hit hard enough.

[1955] So is Gary Goodrich.

[1956] He's a gigantic kid, too.

[1957] You know guys in your gym, though, that have...

[1958] Punchy?

[1959] Yeah.

[1960] I know guys that have fought, like, twice in their whole career, and already, like, they just...

[1961] That one fight did them in, and they should never fight again, because they're just punchy.

[1962] Well, you remember Julio Cesar Chavez and Melchrick Taylor?

[1963] Yeah.

[1964] They fought one time, and Melchrick was never the same again.

[1965] Chavez beat him into a different person.

[1966] No, who also was like, that is Sean Gannon.

[1967] When you fought Kimbo from a half hour, he was never the same from that day on.

[1968] That fight was fucking crazy, and that was an underground exclusive because everybody talked about that on the UG.

[1969] That was a live -streaming fight.

[1970] You set that up?

[1971] I set that up, yeah.

[1972] That was after Kimbo had become this Internet celebrity.

[1973] What year was that?

[1974] 2002?

[1975] No, later than 2002.

[1976] Five -ish sounds right.

[1977] Yeah, because I drove home from college to get to that fight, so I wasn't in 2002 to 2004.

[1978] Yeah, I was in college in Boston still, so someone was like, dude, Kimo versus Gans going down to that hour.

[1979] You've got to get down here.

[1980] Well, Kenny Florian posted about it on the U .G. It still pops up, like, every now.

[1981] Does Kenny still post or has you done?

[1982] He's back.

[1983] He's back.

[1984] He's back.

[1985] He's back.

[1986] Like a week ago.

[1987] Well, he hasn't fought in a while.

[1988] His feelings won't get hurt his back.

[1989] Right.

[1990] They talk a lot of shit on his commentary, though.

[1991] Yeah, I'm sure they did.

[1992] He's an excellent commentary.

[1993] It's very good, but it doesn't matter.

[1994] People are cunts.

[1995] Yeah.

[1996] They talk show and everyone who's good at their job, but they don't give a fuck.

[1997] The people that don't give a fuck, they're just looking to be mad at anybody but their mom or whoever's fucking yelling at them at work or whatever your issue is.

[1998] You're taking it out on Kenny Florian, but really you're mad that you live in your mother's basement.

[1999] And that's the reality.

[2000] That's the reality.

[2001] 100%.

[2002] There's a certain amount of people that are just getting fined people mad at anything.

[2003] But Kenny, I think, was posting about it on the UG.

[2004] And that's how I found out about it Because I knew about Sean.

[2005] I knew Sean Gannon from the fight world And I knew about Kimbo, obviously, from these YouTube videos.

[2006] And I couldn't believe that they had actually organized a fucking real fist fight.

[2007] And it went down.

[2008] Jamie, pull that video up because that's a fucking goddamn crazy video.

[2009] That was the first time Kimbo fought someone who actually knew how to fight.

[2010] And, you know, he became this internet celebrity by just lighting these idiots up in backyards and move away from the satellite dish and you know look out for that metal thing everyone thought his eyeball came out of his eye too or something he beat the fuck out of some people and he showed some good hands showed some good skills but then he fought Sean Gannon and Sean Gannon first of all he was in shape yeah he was in shape and he had an iron chin and he's a cop and he's got an iron heart yeah and he was a boxer golden gloves at least which just isn't his you know it's not everything but he was a boxer but for sure He was in, like, the South Boston gyms forever, like training.

[2011] He was a good fight there.

[2012] They both came out of that wrecked.

[2013] And the funny thing is they came out with a bunch of crazy rules in this fight, like, as it was going down.

[2014] There was a 30 count.

[2015] Mike Littlefield still has the rules written down.

[2016] He has them, and it's got blood on it.

[2017] It's crazy because Kimbo tagged him with a bunch of punches, but they weren't taking him out.

[2018] And after a while, Gannon started hitting the body, and we started working.

[2019] Like this combination, I mean, he's tagging Kimbo, and Kimbo's hanging in there, and then here, Kimbo shoots.

[2020] That was illegal.

[2021] That was the first rule break of the entire fight.

[2022] But Ganon is getting a stand -in guillotine, and he's holding on to him in a choke.

[2023] And then all these, these...

[2024] That was legal, according to the rules, the standing guillotine was legal.

[2025] I think that's his brother.

[2026] He had alligator jacket and alligator the suitcase.

[2027] The guys are touching them while they're fighting, yelling at them.

[2028] And he's saying, let go, let go.

[2029] And he's trying to pry him away.

[2030] and then they're prying him away is like this crazy like what are the fucking rules I was very convinced I was gonna get shot that night no all the Kimbo's guys have been disarmed yeah well there are cops you know and then Kimbo got him down and Kimbo was trying to ground and pound him which was against the rules so Kimbo tried to ground and pound him but Ganon got back up to his feet and just heart you know you just couldn't wear Ganon out that easy he was a guy who's used to brawling too he had been in the deep water before and figured out a way to swim you know and kimbo i don't think had really been in deep water this was like a first time hood fights for like a minute yeah and a half long now you're looking at kimbo is already exhausted and ganon is just starting to beat the fuck out of him and now you know kimbo is the punches are coming real labored he's trying to push ganon off the fucking wall were you there when we built that wall no we had to show up early and build that wall because they didn't have one there for this fight that's funny It didn't last long either.

[2031] This is a crazy fight that's available online.

[2032] You can watch it.

[2033] But I remember it was a bunch of us were live watching this and commenting on the underground while it was happening.

[2034] I was reading the thread and watching the fight.

[2035] I was like, this is crazy.

[2036] You know, we're all trying to figure out what was going to happen.

[2037] And they showed Sean's face at the end of it.

[2038] And that's when it really hit home.

[2039] Because you're watching this is all blurry, grainy, really shitty, fucking webcam video.

[2040] looking, but you see the end of the video, they get a close -up of Sean's face, and he looks like the elephant man. Yeah, we have all that old footage.

[2041] We own that footage, yeah, we own the copyright.

[2042] How good is the footage?

[2043] I think it's better than the webcam stuff, because they had, like, at least like camcorders back then.

[2044] Look at his face.

[2045] Like, when they're doing a 30 count and Kimbo's down, they gave him a 30 count, and eventually Kimbo just could not get up.

[2046] But look at his face.

[2047] And the first two times, his friends just picked him up and made him keep fighting.

[2048] He never got up from his own free will yeah but Sean just look at he got up again yeah he got up again yeah look he's he's like on he's up and Sean punched him again like after that it's so crazy I remember we someone easily could have died in that fight yeah we we part of the the rules where the winners got the footage so they're like six guys with cameras and so like I see Mike and those guys they all had their own cameras and Sean won and were like hand over the So there's all this, we like, we figure they just tape the fights, but there's all this footage of them driving up, like going to the hotel and like, flying in the jet, going to the hotel and like, you know, we're going to kill this.

[2049] I can't use their language here.

[2050] Yeah, you can.

[2051] All right.

[2052] Come on, nigga, let's kill this guy.

[2053] We're going.

[2054] Like, they're in like Rhode Island and like the bad part of Rhode Island.

[2055] It's hilarious.

[2056] I think I still have it somewhere.

[2057] Fuck.

[2058] I think it's still on that old computer I have in my basement.

[2059] So Sean before this fight and then Sean after.

[2060] after the fight, what was the difference?

[2061] Totally different.

[2062] He was, like, I don't think he was ever, like, super smart, but he was a coherent, smart guy.

[2063] And I remember seeing him, like, a month later.

[2064] And I was like, this guy has brain damage.

[2065] Like, he's, like, not right anymore.

[2066] Just, like, had, like, this weird look to his face all the time.

[2067] Did he get fired from that fight?

[2068] No. Because of that fight?

[2069] He did get disciplined bad.

[2070] He still a cop now.

[2071] Why did he do?

[2072] Because that picture was on the front page of the Herald.

[2073] So it was a big deal.

[2074] It was just a sort of what they considered it a bad.

[2075] publicity thing.

[2076] The police union got behind him and he stayed on the force.

[2077] Well, it's just sparring.

[2078] It's what it was.

[2079] It's what it was.

[2080] It was a sparring match.

[2081] I think he's still on the force today.

[2082] I haven't talked to him about six months, but we didn't talk about work last time I saw it.

[2083] Scroll up to that picture of the dude's eye right below that.

[2084] Look at that.

[2085] That's the dude that Kimbo fought.

[2086] What the fuck is going on with his eye?

[2087] His eye is out.

[2088] It's not in the right place.

[2089] Is that what it is?

[2090] Or is it just swelling?

[2091] I don't know.

[2092] what that is.

[2093] That might not even be real.

[2094] That might be Photoshop.

[2095] But it certainly looks like his eyeballs missing.

[2096] And the way Kimbo was built back then, too, it was just so, he was built so much different than he is now.

[2097] Like, look at that picture right there, the Elite X -C picture right below it.

[2098] He's got his arms up in the air, Jamie?

[2099] Click on that.

[2100] Like, he was swall.

[2101] Yeah.

[2102] And he see him now when he fought Ken Shamrock the other day, it just didn't look the same.

[2103] He just looks like a completely different guy.

[2104] That's the old Ken Shamrock one from the one Ken backed out of and then he wound up fighting Seth Petrazzelli Yeah that's the old one I'm pretty sure Because Ken looks younger there too Ken already looks fairly old There but Ken Backed out of the fight like Last minute and then he fought Seth Petrazzelli And I knew that that was deep water For him I was like yeah this is Not your you can't fight that guy But look how good Ken looked there For a guy who's 51 That was a super disappointing fight though I couldn't believe that Everybody thought that was a work But I do not at all I'm very confident I just think it was two 50 year old guys Fighting each other And it's just not gonna look Like the best athletic competition I just couldn't believe That Ken couldn't finish that rear naked choke I thought that Bring up a video of Ken from 20 years ago Oh no he does the same style He cups like the top of the head He doesn't come behind the neck Like he does the same style of choke In 20 years ago guys didn't know what to do So they tap to it Yeah there it is right there You can see the picture of him with Kimbo But Kimball's not even defending I mean he's not even grabbing the fucking I just couldn't imagine that Ken couldn't finish that That doesn't make any sense to me I mean it might not be a word I said it looked fake as fuck Because it did kind of look fake as fuck But one of the things that might have made it look fake as fuck Because it was a 51 year old man Right Who has fought combat sports for 20 plus years And his body just is not capable anymore I mean anybody else like Luke Rockhole Gets your neck like that Good night bitch You're going to sleep you know, just a fact, but just to see Ken not be able to finish a perfectly placed rear naked choke hand on the bicep, you know, most anybody who's really good at jiu -jitsu is going to finish that.

[2105] It just doesn't make any sense.

[2106] Or even not that great at jiu -jitsu.

[2107] Yeah, I mean, a purple belt, a good purple belt.

[2108] But it's sad that a guy like Ken, you know, is in this position in his life when he's, you know, he's a legend in a sport.

[2109] You know, you think about a guy like Arnold Palmer, He never has to fucking work again You know, you look at a legend In baseball, those guys don't have to work Yeah, they never have to work again You look at a legend like Ken Shamrock He just missed the fucking money Combat sports are all like that though I mean, look at Mike Tyson made $300 million And doesn't have $300 million now But that's because he pissed it all away Ken Charmock didn't make $300 million They weren't man guys $10 million a fight When Ken Shamrock was good No Like the guys like the GSP are making now He didn't have that opportunity I wonder what the most anybody's ever made for an MMA fight is.

[2110] It would have to be in the UFC.

[2111] It would have to be a cut of a pay -per -view in the UFC.

[2112] Probably $4 or $5 million for GSP.

[2113] It would be my guess.

[2114] More than that.

[2115] You think more than five?

[2116] The rumor is that McGregor made $4 or $5 million.

[2117] Well, I'm sure he had a piece of the pay -view, and he fucking deserved it.

[2118] If anybody deserved a piece of the pay -per -view, it's McGregor.

[2119] We were just talking about that in the car yesterday.

[2120] Without him, that card would have done $400 ,000, $500 ,000 ,000 buys instead of a million?

[2121] You know what impressed me almost as much as his performance and the fight itself was the Irish people.

[2122] I just couldn't believe.

[2123] I mean, I said that like when I did the post -flight interview, I'm like, these people are incredible.

[2124] It's humbling.

[2125] They flew all the way over there from Ireland to watch their guy fight.

[2126] There's not, if you had a fucking American fight in Ireland, good luck getting 10 people to get on a plane to fly to America.

[2127] Brother, sister, and cousin.

[2128] It's just not the same.

[2129] And somebody was like, yeah, it's because they don't have anything.

[2130] So what?

[2131] So what?

[2132] You don't think it's impressive that they have so much patriotism and so much love for their countrymen that they planned way in advance.

[2133] Those tickets sold out in the blink of an eye.

[2134] And thousands of those 15 ,000 people, thousands, like 40 % came from Europe.

[2135] And it's not like a rock concert where if it's a Stones concert, you know it's going to be a phenomenal concert, half the people lose every fight.

[2136] And they could have flown all that, spent all their money, and he might have lost.

[2137] Like Ricky Hatton when he fought Mayweather.

[2138] Remember they were singing all those Ricky Hatton songs right before Mayweather put him to sleep?

[2139] Here we go, Mickey Hatton.

[2140] Or the fuck that sucked.

[2141] You know, or the fight could have right.

[2142] Five minutes of a boring sucky fight.

[2143] It could have been.

[2144] It could have been.

[2145] But they were willing to take the chance.

[2146] And then they won.

[2147] He won and they won with them.

[2148] I'm telling you, man, you never seen celebration like that.

[2149] I had a run from place to place just to keep them getting accosted by Irish people that try to drag you into.

[2150] My brother was out there, and he said it was awesome to see.

[2151] Like, everywhere he walked, there were, like, crazy Irish guys.

[2152] They were so pumped up and amped up.

[2153] And they were singing.

[2154] Yeah, singing.

[2155] And they were coming.

[2156] I was leaving for my flight at, like, 7 .30 in the morning.

[2157] And these guys were stumbling in.

[2158] Still singing.

[2159] 7 .30, fucked up.

[2160] Probably just getting home from the Spearmint Rino.

[2161] Hammered.

[2162] It was amazing.

[2163] It's like, it moved me. Because I had been there before when a lot of Brazilians had shown up to maybe see Anderson fight or something along those lines but the level of patriotism that the irish had was on a completely different scale it was just it was another level like several notches crazier that's why i like i mean for me personally my favorite shows are just a little amateur ones when i'm i'm actually coaching or somebody that i've helped train or something because if you do the more of a connection you have with a person the deeper the fight becomes and i think with Those Irishmen there, they're so tight as a nation that when he's in there, they feel like they're right in there with him.

[2164] And that must make the experience transcendental.

[2165] It's also making me nervous, too.

[2166] I hate watching guys.

[2167] Look at that photo.

[2168] Jesus fucking Christ, that's a crazy photo.

[2169] Look at that shit.

[2170] 11 ,000 people were at the way in.

[2171] Right, to watch guys take off their clothes and standing their underwear.

[2172] It's insane.

[2173] And the roars, the roars that those people were cheering, screaming when he got on that scale.

[2174] There's nothing like it.

[2175] There's no one like him.

[2176] I mean, Ronda Rousey is the other biggest star in MMA at this point.

[2177] You know, everybody talks about who's the biggest star in MMA?

[2178] I love Ronda Rousey.

[2179] I think she's a one -of -a -kind.

[2180] I don't think there's anybody that's ever been like her.

[2181] I think she's spectacular, but she does not have nearly the appeal.

[2182] This motherfucker does.

[2183] It's not even close.

[2184] How many Americans are flying to Brazil to watch her fight next year?

[2185] Me?

[2186] Joe.

[2187] It's my job.

[2188] But I am very, very, very.

[2189] curious.

[2190] I'm going not just because it's my job, but I'm very curious to see how they're going to treat her in Brazil, whether or not, you know, this Bech -Cohia chick has that kind of love and respect, whether they think she has a chance, what kind of crowd's going to show up?

[2191] What is it going to be like if Rhonda beats her?

[2192] When Rhonda beats her, should I say?

[2193] If Wanda, I mean, anything can happen.

[2194] Anything can't happen.

[2195] I learned that in the late 90s, or could have been, you know, it was the late 90s.

[2196] Militich fought Dan Severn and I got the tape afterwards from Monti who promoted it and they're doing the pre -fight interview and they say Pat what do you think's going to happen and Pat goes I don't know what's going to happen that's why we're having the fight and he was fighting guy was 100 pounds heavier than him and I think it ended up being a draw but because nobody tapped anybody but Pat Pat really did win that fight and ever since then I've been like you don't know what's going to happen that's why you have the fight I mean yeah fights are crazy you throw bones of people you zig when you should have zag and boom pretty sure we were all thinking when inters and silver beats chris wideman what's next i didn't think that no no i didn't think no i did i did not think that i was saying i mean i wasn't lying when i did that pre -fighting thing i'm like this guy's different he's he's a special kind of a destroyer you know there's something about widening he's so fucking strong what is that something because the three of us were talking about it in the car yesterday what is it i don't know some guys have it some guys don't you know it's like what is it that makes a guy that fucking good.

[2197] I don't know what it is.

[2198] There's intangible qualities that some people possess.

[2199] And he's born that way?

[2200] He's born with it?

[2201] Well, it's all the above what we talked about.

[2202] His dad was a football player, his fucking brother beat the shit out of him.

[2203] All that stuff I'm sure has an effect on his mental state and his resolve.

[2204] He has unflappable will, unflappable resolve.

[2205] Like, he's just got this iron will and you just sense it.

[2206] When you look at him, you sense it when you see him fighting.

[2207] Like, you got to beat that fucking guy.

[2208] He's not beating himself and he's skillful he's very good very well prepared tough as shit can knock guys out can knock guys out with their hands you ever see him fight eurya hall and ring a fire yeah yeah he caught eurya hall with his long left hook boom and put him away standing i mean he puts guys away standing puts mark munoz away with that fucking brutal elbow oh he's no joke man he's an animal you know and now as a middleweight champion what's fascinating right now is now that he's past Vitor, which is sort of a mandatory fight.

[2209] There are so many good fights there.

[2210] There's Jacques Array.

[2211] Yoel Romero, Luke Rockhold.

[2212] Fuck, man. It's a brother -as -row lining up for it.

[2213] Oh, God.

[2214] You know?

[2215] I mean, and the way Rockhold beat down Machita like, fuck.

[2216] And then the Ray Romero did the same goddamn thing.

[2217] He beat him down, too.

[2218] It's like the contenders are rising to the top.

[2219] They're clearly being established.

[2220] And Jacques -A -Rae, I mean, you want to talk about world -class jiu -jitsu.

[2221] that guy's insane he's insane he's so fucking good and so strong it's the 205 division I felt like with five years ago or four years ago or something was kind of like that you had john jones on top and everybody else in the top ten was a killer but it's definitely 185 right now 205 is actually the pretty weak right now that division right well you know jones relatively hopefully jones comes back eventually gets his life in order and comes back that situation is so sad and you're not hearing anything from john You know, I'm sure he's got all sorts of legal problems.

[2222] Which is good.

[2223] You should stay out of the media and just take care of his shit right now, which he needs to do.

[2224] Yeah, you know, clear his mind in his life and make restitution and do whatever he's got to do.

[2225] And hopefully he'll be back again.

[2226] But you want to talk about talent.

[2227] Hopefully, man. I want to see him back.

[2228] Like, get his shit together and come back and just be on top again.

[2229] Because that guy was incredibly talented.

[2230] I watched all his fights because he grew up fighting in Massachusetts because New York.

[2231] They couldn't fight.

[2232] So all his fights were in Massachusetts.

[2233] And I saw that kid fight like three times.

[2234] Like, this kid's got it.

[2235] Like, this kid's going somewhere.

[2236] He fought six times in three months.

[2237] Did he really fight that many times?

[2238] Three months, six times.

[2239] Three weekends in a row once.

[2240] And then took a last minute fight in the UFC.

[2241] Wow.

[2242] Yeah.

[2243] It was incredible.

[2244] My first experience was I was cornering somebody at a show in Massachusetts.

[2245] And Chris, I think my guy lost.

[2246] I'm just kind of sitting there arm around.

[2247] I'm giving him water or whatever.

[2248] And Chris goes, there's this new guy.

[2249] And he says, so fights, and it's only five seconds you can't.

[2250] Come here.

[2251] And so he grabs me, and we go running up to the cage, and it was over.

[2252] The fight had ended in 19 seconds.

[2253] And I know the guy he fought, and the guy he fought is, like, tough and got crushed by him.

[2254] And Chris just said, this guy is going to be the, he's going to be the next one.

[2255] Wow.

[2256] That's amazing.

[2257] He's a murderer.

[2258] I'm so lucky he never fought Tom.

[2259] He was supposed to fight Tom Waller for the, like, local title.

[2260] Really?

[2261] Yeah, because Tom Lawler fought master.

[2262] He's a Massachusetts guy originally.

[2263] And they're supposed to fight for the title.

[2264] I had set it all up for Tom.

[2265] And I'm like, oh, he looks good, but Tom, you can fight him.

[2266] And like, a week later, the UFC called John Jones.

[2267] And I'm like, thank God that fight never happened.

[2268] Or Tom might have never had a UFC career.

[2269] I mean, not to say he would have lost for sure, but it was a tough fight to take, you know, in retrospect.

[2270] Let's just say it.

[2271] He would have lost for sure.

[2272] What are you doing?

[2273] What are you lying to people?

[2274] Anything can happen.

[2275] Anything can happen in the fight, and Tom hits hard.

[2276] Yes.

[2277] I mean, most people thought he was going to lose this fight last weekend.

[2278] It was a tough fight for him, for sure.

[2279] He was getting beat up, and he had taken 27 months off.

[2280] Ring rust is real.

[2281] Why did he take so much time off?

[2282] So I cornered him, this is funny, I courted him in the Michael Kuiper fight in Sweden, and we walk in after the first round, and he looks at this, it's like, I think I blew my fucking knee.

[2283] And I'm just like, what do you mean?

[2284] You blew my knee.

[2285] And so the other corner, his jihitsu coach is like, you should sit down.

[2286] He's like, I can't.

[2287] I won't be able to get back up.

[2288] Whoa.

[2289] And we're like, all right, he's like, what should I do?

[2290] Should we not fight?

[2291] I'm like, do you want to fight?

[2292] He's, yeah, so go out there and stand up.

[2293] And he guillotines the guy in the second round, chokes him unconscious.

[2294] And he tore his ACL, completely blew his ACL.

[2295] Wow.

[2296] And so he recovered for like a year and then blew his meniscus in the same knee.

[2297] And so then another six -month recovery.

[2298] And just then he had to book a fight and get back in shape.

[2299] It's just injury after injury in the same knee.

[2300] What do guys do?

[2301] always wondered what is a guy like tom luller who doesn't make that much money what do they do for money when that happens well tom's made some good money in the ufc that he could sit on and tom's filthy doesn't like need nice things if you ever like so he won a bonus at ufc 100 which is a hundred thousand dollars oh okay and he went and bought a condo in providence which wasn't expensive like bought it straight out and Rhode Island yeah he's from that area like swanzy summer set no he did He lived there for years That's where he grew up Like Swansea, Somerset area And he liked Rhode Island Because everything's a small city Everything's close He lived in the nastiest condo You've ever been in It was like cat pissing everywhere And like just like smell the You know everything It was terrible But you know He doesn't need all the money So for him like $100 ,000 It's like five years of living Because he doesn't need You know Nice amenities, nice things And he just teach Ujitsu here and there and do seminars and I don't think he's worked a regular job since after before fighting he was like a high school history teacher for a while and then just got into fighting and that's it.

[2302] Wow.

[2303] He just figured out of the way to survive on, you know, not having a lot.

[2304] It's a hard world out there for guys who are like the lower level guys that are trying to make it.

[2305] It's a very, very hard world.

[2306] It's very, very difficult for those guys to make enough money to actually get by.

[2307] It's terrible.

[2308] I have a guy that fights in the UFC now that went back.

[2309] to having a real job full time still fights but has a job he's a corrections officer who's that joe proctor he has a full -time job he's six fights into his ufc career and has a full -time job watching inmates at plymouth county that's crazy that's a suck job too by the way i had a training partner that did that he'd have horror fucking stories about people throwing shit on him and oh yeah they would they do that they throw shit at you there was a guy used to help out from from uh mass He was actually from Connecticut, and he was a good fighter.

[2310] I think he probably had UFC potential, and then he decided, the future's not for me. And so he told me, you know, I got sort of bad news.

[2311] I'm going to go to law school instead of fighting.

[2312] I was like, hallelujah.

[2313] That's awesome.

[2314] What do you do when a guy's going through a gym and he wants to fight and you know he's got no shot?

[2315] Do you just say, look, you've got to figure this out for yourself?

[2316] Like, you've got a guy who's uncoordinated and just, you know, not tough, but for whatever reason, decides to fight.

[2317] Tell them it's not for them.

[2318] You tell them.

[2319] Straight up tell them, you can't fight from here.

[2320] I said there's unscrupulous promoters that are looking for sharks versus fish.

[2321] I explained the whole deal to them, how the sport works at the low level.

[2322] There's big ticket sellers.

[2323] They're going to sell 200 tickets at $50 each, $35 each.

[2324] And the promoter is always looking for some fish to feed the, to feed to the sharks so that the guy will have 200 friends show up and the next win and the next time they're going to say.

[2325] You can get a fight.

[2326] Like there's a million unscrupulous promoters in this state that will give you a fight, but it's not good for you.

[2327] It's a dangerous sport, so you can't fight out of here.

[2328] And sometimes they keep going, but not usually.

[2329] Because it's not the type of sport where you can be nice to people.

[2330] It's too important.

[2331] You know, if you tell a girl she's pretty and she's not or something, there's no bad consequences.

[2332] But if you let somebody think they have a chance of fighting, and really they're not very good, they can get a scrambled brain.

[2333] brain.

[2334] A lot of people don't do that, man. A lot of people just let them figure it out for themselves.

[2335] Yeah, I see it in other gyms.

[2336] Our gym, if you're not, we don't think you're ready to fight, you don't fight.

[2337] And the guys will leave.

[2338] They'll go to the Taekwondo School that lets them fight MMA with no experience, and then you just see them get killed because they're just not prepared.

[2339] Guys that come to our gym don't fight for years, even amateurs.

[2340] They come in and they learn everything.

[2341] They learn how to wrestle, jujitsu, kickbox.

[2342] And then maybe, if you think they're ready, you take a fight.

[2343] What's your gym, so people are listening?

[2344] Lozzo on MMA back in Massachusetts.

[2345] L -A -U -Z -O -N, right?

[2346] Loz -on -M -M -M -A.

[2347] We've got to wrap this up.

[2348] Anything else you want to say?

[2349] Mixmarshalarche .com, the website.

[2350] Fuck the OG.

[2351] Fucked the OG?

[2352] I thought it was...

[2353] Fucked the U -G.

[2354] Fucked the U -G.

[2355] Fuck them both.

[2356] Okay.

[2357] Well, you guys...

[2358] Seriously, though, best mixed martial arts website in the world.

[2359] You guys are always on top of the news.

[2360] You always misspell people's names.

[2361] It's great.

[2362] You misquote me almost every time Every day But it's like as far I still post all the fucking time I'm one of the last of the Mohicans I'm still in there getting shit on Called a Fag and whatever they want to call me Dick Ryder No matter what You're gonna get shit on but I think overall I look at it the opposite way I'm a optimist I think it's like 10 % douchebags 90 % cool people Maybe But either way You guys have fucking made it through the storm that was the beginning of MMA, and I think this website was an integral part of keeping the core fan base alive.

[2363] So, Kerrick, thank you very much for everything that you've done.

[2364] I really, really appreciate it.

[2365] It gave me a place to waste a lot of fucking time and talk a lot of shit about all kinds of different fights and read a lot of cool information and news, and whenever anybody's hurt or breaking news, I always find out about it on the underground.

[2366] Imagine if you tracked the hours you spent on, like, how much would that be of your life?

[2367] Well, I was one of the first 400.

[2368] So shit It would be a lot 15, 17 years A couple hours a day maybe A lot of goddamn wasted time But thank you I don't want to be an ass kiss But I will be As I've told these guys before When there's a UFC that you're not on it To me And again I don't sound like an ass kiss But it's just what I've said Not in front of you But to these guys previously It doesn't feel like a UFC Without you there The weigh -ins aren't just It's just not the same So thanks to you for for making the UFC, the UFC, for me. Well, thank you very much, man. I appreciate it.

[2369] All right, mixed martial arts .com.

[2370] Go check it out and love the U .G. Love the OG.

[2371] Take it easy, everybody.

[2372] Cheers.