Introduction to the Exile (with Jeff Cavins) (2024)

[0] Hi, my name is Father Mike Schmitz and you're listening to the Bible in a year podcast where we encounter God's voice and live life through the lens of scripture.

[1] The Bible in a year podcast is brought to you by Ascension.

[2] Using the great adventure Bible timeline, we'll read all the way from Genesis to Revelation, discovering how the story of salvation unfolds and how we fit into that story today.

[3] Today, we're introducing the next period of our Bible timeline, which is the period of the exile.

[4] And so as always, when introducing these time periods, we're joined by the master, the creator, not the capital M master, not the capital C creator, but one of the masters and creators of the Bible timeline.

[5] And the great adventure, of course, is Jeff Kaven.

[6] And so we're so grateful because this is going to be, I believe, the longest timeline or the longest time period that we're going to be in one time period, the longest stretch of days.

[7] And so this is going to be maybe one of the last times that you get to hear from Jeff in this podcast for a number of days.

[8] And so once again, we're joined by Jeff.

[9] Jeff, welcome.

[10] Hey, it's good to be with you again.

[11] So we travel along in salvation history.

[12] It's great.

[13] It's such a gift.

[14] And also, I'm so grateful for these introductions.

[15] I think as people have been journeying for, you know, hundreds, well, almost hundreds, almost 200 days of people have been journeying through this.

[16] I think they have found these introduction pieces to each different time period to be invaluable as giving them a context for launching forward.

[17] And so we're leaving the divided kingdom.

[18] We're entering into the period of exile.

[19] What should we be looking at or paying attention to as we make this transition?

[20] Well, I do enjoy working with you so much.

[21] This is so much fun to be able to read through the Bible with you and then occasionally drop in to be like a guide, you know, that say, hey, this is where we're at.

[22] And it's kind of like, I don't know if you've ever climbed Everest.

[23] You probably have, knowing you.

[24] Only three times.

[25] I'm a Sherpa.

[26] You know, I go up and I fix the ropes and make sure that that path is straight so that people can can walk with you along the path.

[27] So I will go by Sherpa Jeff from now on.

[28] Yes.

[29] Well, Sherpa Jeff, as we go into exile, so we're leaving the divided kingdom tragic, right?

[30] It's that black color that represents this, you know, splitting of the kingdom that he established in David and Solomon into exile.

[31] What should we be expecting?

[32] Well, you know, this is a baby blue period on the Bible timeline, and the clever little way to remember that is singing the blues in Babylon, which I can hear all right now the groans on that one.

[33] I'm genuinely laughing.

[34] I think that's funny.

[35] We got to pipe in the laughs on this, I think.

[36] We just came out of the darkest period of the history of Israel, where we saw the kingdom divide into two nations.

[37] Israel with 10 tribes to the north and Judah down in Jerusalem with two tribes, and that's Judah and Benjamin.

[38] But the prophets have been speaking to both of them.

[39] Hosea and Amos were speaking to the north, and we've got other prophets speaking to the south, and they're not listening.

[40] They simply are not listening.

[41] So the very first part, the very first part of the exile, is going to be the 10 northern tribes.

[42] they're going to be taken out of the north.

[43] And when you're reading along here, this is, it's a relatively short period of scripture, and that's Second King's 17 to 25.

[44] But as you mentioned, it really covers a lot of years here.

[45] And so the very first exile is the 10 northern tribes, they're going to be taken out by the Assyrians.

[46] And the Assyrians are really a tough group of people.

[47] It's been Egypt up to this point, and now Assyria is the world power, and they're going to come down, and they're literally going to wipe out the north, and they bring them to some other nations.

[48] They're gone for the most part, and the Assyrians bring in five other conquered nations into the north, and they mix with the remnant in the north, and that becomes the beginnings of the Samaritans.

[49] And that's an important thing to remember because when we come to Jesus period, Samaritans and Jews, which is the southern two kingdoms of Judah, they don't mix real well.

[50] And this is really where it begins.

[51] And once they're taken away into Assyria, by the Assyrians, we're not going to really hear much about the North anymore until you read the Gospel of John.

[52] and people hear the Gospel of John, which we have.

[53] And when you read the Gospel of John, you're going to run into a woman at a well, a Samaritan woman at the well, and Jesus is going to bring all of this back in an amazing, an amazing way.

[54] And that took place in 722 BC.

[55] And it's a sad period in Israel's history, and for the most part, we're not going to hear anything more about them, but even Paul in the New Testament, he keeps them in the back of his mind and he is going to go after them as he goes into these nations where they have been scattered.

[56] So that's the north.

[57] That's the first part of the exile.

[58] Well, yeah, and it seems like one of the message of St. Paul is actually the Lord God is reconstituting his people as he promised he would in the kingdom in Christ by sending those apostles out to gather all the peoples, including those ten nations.

[59] scattered and lost, essentially, and that's one of the ways in which Jesus Christ fulfills that promise of those prophets, promise of God to bring his people back into the one kingdom with the one king.

[60] And that's, yeah, it's incredible.

[61] I love the fact that you even alluded to that John chapter four, the woman at the well, and the five nations that are mingled with the people of Israel and the woman who has five husbands, right?

[62] And I mean, I learned this from you.

[63] That's so great.

[64] And Jesus says to the woman, you've had five husbands, the one you're with is not your husband.

[65] And not only it says that a reflection of her actual life, or actual state of life, but it's the reflection of the people of Samaria who had those five nations mingled among them.

[66] And they lost their identity.

[67] They lost kind of like in Hosea, where he compares the people of Israel to an adulterous person, right?

[68] That turns away from the one who loves them, their husband.

[69] And here's the husband who is so faithful.

[70] So, yeah, that's such a good, such a big powerful.

[71] Exactly.

[72] I mean, that's really a takeaway, isn't it?

[73] It's a very powerful takeaway, and that is that for people who have felt like they have betrayed the Lord, they have been unfaithful to the Lord, the Lord is not going to be unfaithful to you.

[74] And as a husband, he is going to seek you out.

[75] He's going to give you that living water that you so desire.

[76] And so, you know, if you identify with the North, there's good news, and that is that it's the same husband, it's Jesus, and he loves you, and he's going to come looking for you.

[77] Yeah.

[78] And so that's the Assyrians in 722 come in from the north, essentially, right?

[79] And they decimate those 10 tribes in the north.

[80] And then we're also going to follow the ups and downs of the people of the south.

[81] And so the southern kingdom of Judah and their story.

[82] Right.

[83] And that's what we typically think of, Father.

[84] When we talk about the exile, we typically think about the Babylonian exile.

[85] And it's important to note that the Babylonians defeated the Assyrians.

[86] And so we got a new kid on the block, you know, the new bully, and that's the Babylonians.

[87] And the leader is Nebuchadnezzar.

[88] And once again, the prophets speak, but as the North didn't listen, the South isn't listening as well.

[89] And in fact, they are not listening to the Lord, and their leadership is corrupt, and they are not honoring the Sabbath years.

[90] giving the land rest.

[91] And so there was predicted by the prophet Isaiah that there was going to be an exile.

[92] Now we've got to pause there for a minute because, you know, sometimes people don't understand what exile means.

[93] They think it maybe it just means, we're going to kick you out, you know.

[94] But exile really is picking you up and bringing you physically to where you are at spiritually, which is far away from the presence of the Lord.

[95] And that's what's going to happen in the exile here.

[96] And, you know, there's another theme, repeating theme here, and that is that oftentimes God uses Israel's enemies to do the disciplining.

[97] And that was the case with the Assyrians, the Egyptians before that, and now the Babylonians, and later we're going to see the Persians, and then Greece and Rome.

[98] And you could probably go all the way into today.

[99] But it's going to the Babylonians that are going to come down and they are going to destroy Jerusalem.

[100] And that's going to take place in 586, 587 BC.

[101] But when we talk about the Babylonian exile, we're dealing with the south, Judah, with really the headquarters being Jerusalem, right?

[102] And the temple was built in Jerusalem.

[103] So there's a lot at stake here.

[104] In what we see, and this is important to, remember, as you are reading 2nd Kings 17 through 25, is that the Babylonian exile happens in three phases.

[105] And the first phase is going to take place, and that is going to be in 605 BC.

[106] And the first person in in that group, one of the first persons, is a young man by the name of Daniel.

[107] And he's going to be taken into Babylonian exile.

[108] Now, when the Assyrians came into the north, they just obliterated the place.

[109] But the Babylonians came into the south and they took away all of the talented people, all the gifted people, the rich people, and they left everything else behind.

[110] And so in the first wave was Daniel in 605.

[111] And we can get into that a little bit.

[112] Daniel, of course, writes from the place of exile.

[113] And that's important when people are listening to Daniel to know this is a young guy that really wants to serve the Lord.

[114] He's going to be tempted to become like the Babylonians, but he's not going to do it.

[115] He's actually going to become one of the real all -stars in salvation history.

[116] And then in the second wave of captivity, in 597 BC, and remember, our numbers are getting smaller because we're headed towards zero, that is going to be Ezekiel.

[117] And we have Baruch, who is working with Ezekiel.

[118] And then finally, there's going to be a third wave into exile in 587 BC, and that is when the temple is going to be destroyed.

[119] This beautiful, amazing temple that Solomon built is going to be reduced to nothing.

[120] Now, this is really, really sad in Israel's history.

[121] It's like their faith has completely devolved.

[122] it has been ruined.

[123] And they're going to have to reconstitute in Babylon.

[124] And they're going to be there for 70 years in Babylonian captivity.

[125] And so when you're reading during this period, be aware of Daniel, of course.

[126] And we have a lot of other books that take place.

[127] We have Daniel.

[128] We have Ezekiel, Obadiah, Habakkuk, Judith, Zephaniah, Naham, Jeremiah.

[129] Joel, we have all kinds of books that should be read in this particular context.

[130] Yeah, and as you noted, that exile, I really appreciate this, because if there's anything I'm taking away from this conversation, it's that understanding of exile, which is God's bringing them to a physical place that is represented of their spiritual reality already.

[131] And as you described, that third wave of exile is when the destruction of the temple happens.

[132] And we recognize that this is what they've done.

[133] I mean, because in so many ways, being so unfaithful to temple worship, so unfaithful to the Lord and His commandments and have just turned to their own Asherim and their own high places and other places they wanted to worship.

[134] And that makes sense then.

[135] Here's the Lord's Temple where they were meant to be given their identity in that renewing the covenant on a daily basis in this incredible way.

[136] But they weren't.

[137] They weren't living a covenant.

[138] And so here's this place that is reduced.

[139] I think it's, is it Jeremiah or is it?

[140] I think it's Jeremiah, who he's talking, he's preaching to the people and he's telling them, you can't just keep saying, this is the temple of the Lord.

[141] We have the temple of the Lord.

[142] We have the temple of the Lord.

[143] We have the temple of the Lord.

[144] Because, yeah, you have the Lord's temple in your presence, but you're not living like you do.

[145] And so there's that sense that God even is saying almost in a certain sense, I must bring you into exile.

[146] Like he says through Hosea, I must bring you into exile into the wilderness so that I can bring you back to me. And so this is all remedial.

[147] You know, I think that in so many ways, it's meant not to be.

[148] simply punishment because you've done wrong in the sense of my vengeance, my wrath, my justice, but it's meant to be justice, of course, and it is the wrath of the Lord, but it's oriented towards healing.

[149] It's oriented towards restoration and to be the remedy, basically, of healing God's people's unfaithfulness.

[150] Right.

[151] And there is a theme, a recurring theme, all the way from the beginning of the Bible with the Garden of Eden, all the way to Jesus, which is the theme of exile and return.

[152] Exile and return.

[153] Exile and return.

[154] And maybe another way that people can understand exile as, you know, God picking you up physically and bringing you to where you are at spiritually is the common modern notion of excommunication.

[155] You know, people talk about excommunication.

[156] And they say, whoa, he kicked him out of the church.

[157] No, he didn't.

[158] No, that bishop did not.

[159] What did the bishop do?

[160] He drew a line in the sand and showed you, you are out.

[161] You aren't in because of whatever it might be, but it's not that, well, we just sort of don't like you and we're going to kick you out.

[162] It's actually, it's a gift of grace and mercy that God is showing you where you're at and hoping that you will tend to that hunger in your heart to return to the Lord.

[163] That's the goal of this is restoration, which is what we're going to see in the next period when we get together is the return.

[164] But here's one of the sad points about exile.

[165] In exile, a number of changes took place.

[166] One is they didn't have the temple anymore.

[167] So they started to really gather around the family kitchen table.

[168] And that became the place of sacrifice.

[169] And this is where the rules of kosher, Kashrut, really begin to develop about this almost a liturgy around the table and what's clean and, in unclean.

[170] But here's another thing that started to develop in the exile, and that was the Pharisees.

[171] The Pharisees became really the teachers and the leaders.

[172] They taught, you know, they taught the people.

[173] But the saddest part about the exile is that while they were far away from the temple, and the writer of lamentations is lamenting that they're not around the temple anymore, lamenting that they're not in Jerusalem anymore.

[174] But here's a sad thing.

[175] Some of the people in exile kind of liked it.

[176] Right.

[177] You know?

[178] And that's the danger is that if you find yourself in exile in your life and suddenly you start to enjoy it, this is what Paul talks about when the good becomes bad and the bad is good and you are deceived.

[179] Yeah.

[180] And there's that sense of that.

[181] I remember thinking about exile so much during, if we think of a topical time in our lives where it would be, here's people around the world were prevented from going to Mass on a regular basis.

[182] And that sense of, I just remember coming back to that Psalm that says, we have in our day no prince, no prophet, no leader, no, no place to offer first fruits to the Lord.

[183] Because here we are, we're exiled.

[184] We're far from home.

[185] We don't have the temple and they don't have the ability to worship the Lord.

[186] And I remember just thinking, what will happen?

[187] when the door's open again.

[188] You know, what will happen when you have the opportunity to come back home?

[189] And that's one of the things we're going to be looking at here is what happens when, yeah, after all the prophets was spoken, after people's lives have been uprooted from the land that God has promised to his people and they're brought to a foreign land.

[190] And now they have the door in the invitation.

[191] Like, yeah, go back home.

[192] You can go back home now.

[193] You can rebuild Jerusalem.

[194] You can rebuild the temple.

[195] Will you is one of the big questions that they're going to have to ask.

[196] And I think it's one of the questions that is not or in all of our hearts as well when it comes to okay like you mentioned i've been in exile do i like it i i've been released from my obligation did i find that to be a place of freedom and joy or did i find it to be a place of isolation and alienation and loneliness um because yeah there's such a the call is you're welcome back you're invited back but do you want to go back wow that that is a great insight and i think that's something that the people should really they should really listen to that and really ask themselves the question do I enjoy this now more than I did enjoy the presence of the Lord before?

[197] I know one guy that didn't and that's in the New Testament and we fall into this cycle again of exile and return and that's the prodigal son and the prodigal son got to that point where he was far away from his father and I love what it says he came to his senses You know, it's like, my gosh, this is crazy.

[198] And he turned around and started to return to his father.

[199] And so those who find themselves in exile have to pause and ask, is this crazy or what?

[200] You know, and return to the Lord.

[201] And that's so powerful because, again, this is not a dead letter.

[202] Obviously, you know the Word of God is living and effective, and it's speaking to us right now.

[203] And not only the invitation to return, but also these words of the prophets.

[204] And before we come to a close on this episode, to introduce the period of the exile, just knowing that all the people in this community will be journeying through a number of days where we continue, we're going to leave a little bit of the narrative and we're going to enter into the words of the prophets in a really unique way because we're going to go through all of Isaiah, all of Ezekiel, all of Jeremiah and all the minor prophets as well.

[205] I don't know if you had any thoughts, Jeff, on just what would help people navigate those, those three big major prophets, you know, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah, and also some of the minor prophets as we have, you know, some of them will have stories, right?

[206] Like Daniel will follow his story.

[207] But others will kind of have just, no, here's the words of the prophet calling the people to repentance, reminding them of God's future restoration.

[208] What can, what can we hold on to as we listen to the words of the prophets?

[209] Well, two major roles in Israel, what are the priests and the prophets for sure.

[210] And the priests that were part of the problem that landed them in exile.

[211] And we see this in Ezekiel, for example, the shepherds.

[212] And God said, I myself will come in the future and shepherd my people, which is exactly what Jesus said in Jericho later on.

[213] But the other role, not only the priest, but is the prophet.

[214] We have to ask, what is a prophet?

[215] Because I think sometimes people think that a prophet is just someone who is a little bit odd and walks around saying, this is what's going to happen in the future.

[216] But the word prophet, the prophets nevi -eim in Hebrew, is somebody who goes out and reminds the people what God has said.

[217] And so they're not so much predictors of the future, although in Jeremiah chapter 25, Jeremiah said, behold, I will send Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring him against this land and against its inhabitants, and against all these surrounding nations, and will utterly destroy them, and make them a horror, a thing to be hissed, and everlasting ruin, and this whole land shall be a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon 70 years.

[218] Obviously that in Jeremiah 25 is a prediction of the future, but the central role of the prophets was to proclaim God's word, his will, and to woo the people, to encourage them to come back to God and walk according to his plan of sheer goodness.

[219] That's really what they are called to do.

[220] Yeah, there's some weird stories in there, but, you know, God uses weird people.

[221] Exhibit A. Case and point.

[222] So that's what a prophet is.

[223] And so when you're reading the prophets, don't read them as speaking just to Judah.

[224] Read them as speaking to you.

[225] In your life today, the circumstances you find yourself in.

[226] Are you in Babylon?

[227] Are you back in Jerusalem?

[228] Do you desire Jerusalem?

[229] Listen to the prophets from your own perspective and take note of what God is saying to you.

[230] When we talk about major prophets and minor prophets, the major prophets simply are those prophets who had a lot to say, you know, like Isaiah and Jeremiah, and then there are minor prophets who their message isn't minor, but they are shorter, you know, and they are two specific people.

[231] And that's an important point to, you know, to make here.

[232] But this is an exciting period because it's not just somebody else's history.

[233] It can be our history as well.

[234] And while we're only reading the narrative portion, which is 2nd King 17 through 25, you know, you have all kinds of books that should be read in this context, and you're going to be going through a lot of those.

[235] Yeah, yeah, and that's a big piece, too, because what we're going to hear, we're going to, we've already seen a little bit of it, but in the northern kingdom and in the southern kingdom, here's these kings that come and go, and this one did what was evil in the side of the Lord.

[236] This one walked in the side of the Lord, and you realize, you're like, come on, people.

[237] why are you continually turning away from God and worshiping where you know he's called you not to?

[238] And then we're going to hear, after we hear the whole story, the narrative books, then we're going to enter into these words of the prophets.

[239] The words of the prophets were trying to speak to the people and to the leaders of the people.

[240] And I think just like you said, Jeff, there's a big element where, okay, this is not just Isaiah speaking to the people of his day or Hezekiah or, sorry, Ezekiel speaking to people of his day or Jeremiah.

[241] they're speaking to us because we do the same stupid things that God's chosen people did in the past.

[242] God's chosen people now also are tempted to have wayward hearts.

[243] We're tempted to say, I'm the exception here.

[244] God seems to not act.

[245] He seems to, it seems I can get away with this.

[246] He seems to not bring his judgment into my life.

[247] And so as long as I can get away with it, I'm going to.

[248] And here are the prophets who are reminding us that that's not going to last forever.

[249] And a day of judgment is going to come.

[250] But also for those of you who find yourself, like you mentioned, in that place of exile, in that place of hopefully God willing healing remedy, there will be a restoration and he will bring you home and bring you to his heart.

[251] Right, right.

[252] Yeah, so my suggestion, I guess my final suggestion would be if you're going to read these prophets, you might want to read them while standing in front of a mirror.

[253] Yes.

[254] Perfect.

[255] That is good.

[256] And I appreciate that.

[257] I think that might be like with that, I don't know if there's anything.

[258] else you want to leave us with as we launch into this period of exile, or if that was the last word, the final word about just let the words the prophets be words directed to each individual listening.

[259] Yes, with restoration in mind.

[260] And ask God, ask God to give you that hunger and that love that you once had if you are far off.

[261] Like in the book of Revelation, when John spoke to the church in Ephesus, he said, you know, everything's fine theologically, but you are far away from me and do what you did at the beginning.

[262] And when you first met the Lord and you had that zeal and you were reading scripture, you were going to Mass and prayer and praying the rosary and telling your friends of what God has done in your life, ask God to do it again in your life and to bring you back to not just the same place, but even a better place.

[263] Yeah, back to your first love and just encourage that over the course of these next many, many days as we listen to God's word just to pray that he puts that fire into our hearts, the fire of love for him.

[264] And maybe a love that we've never had, ever had before that during this period of exile, he can speak to our hearts in a way that he's never spoken before.

[265] It can ignite our hearts in a way that he has never ignited before and shape them in a way that we never maybe gave him permission to do before.

[266] And so, yeah, that'll be a good prayer as we launch forward.

[267] I'm so grateful, Jeff, for, for each one of these checkpoints with you because it just gives us so much clarity and so much insight into what we're about to experience for the next number of days.

[268] And so I'm just really grateful for you.

[269] And as well as for all the people who are joining us and walking with this, this community is continues to be so active.

[270] And think about how crazy that is that here we are, you know, on day 100 and what, as I said before, 100 and whatever it is, to be able to be here now, still walking together, still walking, whether you're doing it perfectly or imperfectly, I think most of us are doing it pretty imperfectly, but we're doing it together and we're doing with God's grace.

[271] So we'll keep praying for each other.

[272] I pray for you.

[273] Please pray for me. Pray for Jeff.

[274] Pray for all the team here.

[275] My name's Father Mike.

[276] I cannot wait to see you tomorrow.

[277] God bless.