#1200 - Ross Edgley

[0] four, three, two, one, dude.

[1] First of all, what possessed you to want to swim around the entire UK?

[2] How many thousands of miles is that?

[3] Yeah, 2 ,000 miles altogether.

[4] 10 ,000 miles of swimming.

[5] Yeah, yeah, it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[6] And then halfway round, I realized how big Great Britain was.

[7] but you you've done some long swims before but not like nothing even remotely like what's the longest swim you did before this yeah i did um this is a bit of a strange story i did um i tried to swim between st lucia and martinique uh two caribbean islands um it's only 40 kilometers from point to point um and and for charity i was trying to swim uh from point to point with it with a hundred pound tree attached to my trunks um so i was pulling the hundred pound tree uh six foot waves crashing down I actually didn't make it from point to point.

[8] I was like five kilometers from the end.

[9] And when I didn't make it, I decided to swim back the other way.

[10] So I ended up swimming over 100 kilometers with a hundred pound tree.

[11] It took me 32 hours, but still didn't make it.

[12] What went wrong where you didn't make it?

[13] Tides, currents, you know.

[14] Oh, you just got swept away?

[15] Yeah, yeah.

[16] Especially attached to a tree, right?

[17] How big was this tree?

[18] So 100 pounds, but I mean, it floats, but it was more of the drag.

[19] Right.

[20] So if there's any influence from tides or currents and it's pulling you in one direction, I mean, I was basically going to miss Martinique.

[21] So I don't know, I was heading to Cuba, you know, somewhere like that.

[22] And then on the way back down, you know, they turned to me again and they said, like, you're going to miss St. Lucia.

[23] You're going to end up in, I don't know, whatever's further south than St. Lucia.

[24] And I think I realized as physically fit as you are, the ocean just doesn't care.

[25] You know, it doesn't care.

[26] And so after that, this was last year, this was November last year.

[27] kind of felt I had unfinished business with the ocean came back to England rung up friends of mine at the Royal Marines I said guys look this is going to sound so so strange I said but I just I need to get out my system I just need to see how far I can swim in 48 hours so I swam 40 hours I can't remember what it was in there I think it was 160 kilometres something like that and I finished and I had basically trench foot so where your your feet and your hands are so kind of I've got so much water in that it's almost going moldy yeah so I had trench one of I'm sort of sitting there nursing nursing my feet and one of the one of the offices a good friend of mine and they came over and they just said they went you know real English Royal Marine they said you boy and I said yes and they said what are you training for I said oh I'm training for potentially attempting the world's longest current neutral swim and then just paused and he he sit his cup of tea and he looked me up and down he just goes that just sounds a bit lame i was like okay what what do you want me to do and he pauses and he says you just need to man up you need to man up and swim around great britain i was like whoa and i can't i can't i couldn't say no once the i should said why don't you swim with me bitch i'll do what you do it motherfucker that's a crazy thing for somebody to be asking you to do no i know so i said fine once the idea stuck with me i mean You know, we've got this real history and heritage of British eccentric explorers.

[28] And for me, growing up, there's a story of Captain Webb.

[29] So the first guy to swim across the English Channel.

[30] And for those who don't know, English Channel, you know, the tides they believed were too strong.

[31] The water was too cold.

[32] They said, you just can't make it across the English Channel.

[33] It's impossible.

[34] But Captain Webb refused to listen.

[35] And 1875 August crossed the English Channel, and this is the part I love, on a diet of beef broth and brandy in a woolen wetsuit, he swam, I think it was 23 hours, breaststroke with his head out of the water, because, and I quote, front crawl was ungentlemanly like.

[36] And there was that element that I just thought, that's amazing.

[37] Front craw, what is the front craw?

[38] So basically, that's front crawl.

[39] The regular one.

[40] Yeah, but way back in 1875, it was like, no, that's...

[41] He thought it was ungentlemanly.

[42] Yeah, the movements themselves.

[43] Yeah, it was still being developed as a technique, whereas, you know, You know, if you were a gentleman and you were a swimmer, you swim breaststroke.

[44] Wow.

[45] Exactly.

[46] Head out of the water the whole time?

[47] The whole way, 23 hours.

[48] And again, like the support boat was saying, you know, get out, you're not going to make it, you're not going to make it.

[49] And he just refused.

[50] And 23 hours.

[51] So, you know, that's part of a night swim as well.

[52] Head out of the water just all the way.

[53] Why brandy?

[54] Is he getting fucked up or just a little bit of brandy?

[55] You know, I don't know.

[56] Maybe.

[57] It might have been a bit of Dutch courage, but I think there was, you know, certainly back then, sports nutrition isn't what it is today.

[58] So I think there was an element.

[59] He was even like lubing himself up in goose fat.

[60] You know, this is way back.

[61] To make himself slicker?

[62] Slicker.

[63] And I think there was an element of warmth or that was certainly the belief.

[64] Right.

[65] So it was.

[66] The Tour de France guys, didn't they drink wine?

[67] That was like a big thing back in the day?

[68] Way back.

[69] Yeah.

[70] I mean, it wasn't until longer.

[71] I mean, me and Jamie were just talking now about football back in England.

[72] And it wasn't until, you know, too longer.

[73] I think maybe 100 years ago.

[74] They used to just keep brandy in the dressing room in case you needed to warm yourself up.

[75] So they would play soccer drunk.

[76] Yeah, kind of just like with a little bit in there, but like I said, just warm yourself up.

[77] Just a little bit of something.

[78] Get the old engine turning over.

[79] And I think, you know, people don't understand that it's taken, you know, people like Captain Webb, maybe me to a smaller extent to just raise the bar, push the boundaries.

[80] And, you know, you've seen that.

[81] I think our generation have seen that.

[82] with the UFC with mixed martial arts that has evolved so fast I always remember Forrest Griffin used to kind of aliking himself to the basketball players just shooting three pointers with the ball between the legs and that always resonated with me because I was like yeah the evolution that we've seen and what sort of Bruce Lee had the foresight to predict is amazing and I think in a much much smaller way again to go back to sort of British athletes and adventurers Roger Bannister you know first guy to run under a four minute mile.

[83] And people said couldn't be done.

[84] And he was a medical student at the time.

[85] Leading physician said you can't do it.

[86] Your lungs will explode.

[87] Your legs will fall off all sorts.

[88] But no, he said, you know, Oxford laced up his trainers and ran a four minute mile.

[89] Similar right now to what I think we're seeing with Kipchogi, you know, and the two -hour marathon.

[90] And so that's why, again, in a much, much smaller way, when I had that conversation about swimming around Great Britain, everybody said, it can't be done.

[91] Yes, it's 2 ,000 miles, But there's giant whirlpools in Scotland called the Corrieuwecken, Penland Firth, renowned around the world.

[92] If you get that wrong, you're disappearing backwards at 10 knots.

[93] There's no way you're swimming against that.

[94] And 10 knots, that's a dolphin speed.

[95] Jesus.

[96] What is 10 knots in miles per hour?

[97] Basically 10 miles per hour.

[98] Yeah.

[99] Oh, my God.

[100] 10 miles per hour backwards as you're trying to go forwards.

[101] Basically, yeah.

[102] Penland Firth is at the top of Scotland, the currents that go across there.

[103] So it's running in a good clip.

[104] But yeah, oh, yeah.

[105] Backwards.

[106] Yeah, I mean, we got it good.

[107] We managed to basically predict it so well that I think that was probably my top speed, which I dare, 8 .7 knots.

[108] 8 .7 miles per hour.

[109] I was basically cruising along the top, which is like a dolphin.

[110] So you were having the waves behind you, pushing you almost.

[111] And see, now that's what's interesting because I had the tides and currents with me, not necessarily the waves.

[112] Yeah, I said it wrong.

[113] And when you get, but actually you made a good point in terms of when you get wind over tide, So if you've got 10 knots going this way, but you've even got a little bit of wind and waves going this way, it can get choppy.

[114] Oh, okay.

[115] And again, sort of looking at West Scotland, wind over tide, you can get 40 knots coming straight down the barrel, but you're trying to swim with the tide.

[116] Whoa.

[117] Yeah.

[118] So the wind is coming at you, but the tide is going the opposite way.

[119] And as you can imagine that.

[120] Oh, my God.

[121] Yeah.

[122] Yeah.

[123] So how do you predict this tide?

[124] that you have to get right.

[125] Yeah, I mean, it's completely in theory.

[126] And this is what I realized when I sat down and we started sort of plotting the Great British Swet.

[127] What is it called again?

[128] What is the issue that will push you back?

[129] Oh, just the title, yes.

[130] What is it called, that area?

[131] Oh, you say you've got to get right.

[132] Oh, so Pennland Firth.

[133] Pendon Firth?

[134] The Pendland Firth.

[135] Yeah, yeah.

[136] And that's that, like I said, renowned around the world.

[137] But equally, if you imagine the shape of Great Britain, there's all sorts of kind of compression where the water will just come rushing through.

[138] And as well as the Pendle and Firth, you can get, you know, six knots around Wales.

[139] There's an island called Scoma.

[140] And if you get that right, you're disappearing up, you know, and you're winning.

[141] You get it wrong.

[142] Again, you're going backwards.

[143] And for me to do a continuous stage swim, if I'm going backwards, I've got to start where I was going backwards.

[144] So for me, getting every single tide right, and that's why I was so forth.

[145] The team were amazing.

[146] There was a, um, The captain, Matt, was just incredible that every night the homework began.

[147] Jim, are we okay here?

[148] No?

[149] Did we crash?

[150] All right.

[151] Folks, if you're listening or watching, we had a little technical difficulty.

[152] So this is not streaming live.

[153] We'll be uploaded later.

[154] We were just going over how you predicted you had to, and your team had to predict how the tide was coming because if it went wrong, you'd get pushed backwards at like 10 miles an hour.

[155] Yeah, basically.

[156] And this is the thing.

[157] I think with the Great British Swim, we were kind of taking, swimming as most people understand it, and we were removing it and putting it in an arena that was so different.

[158] So, and I think that's why it was, it did so well kind of online as well, the community around it, because obviously swimmers were interested, but, you know, surfers started to get involved because they understood the waves, sailors, fishermen, you know, all sorts of people started to say, you know, sometimes in Great Britain, it's not safe to, take a boat around the top of Scotland, you know, for instance, never mind a swimmer.

[159] So that's, that's why it was amazing that on the entire series, it became a melting pot, an exchange of ideas because nobody knew how to get a human body around the coast of Great Britain.

[160] It wasn't just about swimming.

[161] And that was what was really cool.

[162] How do they know, like when the tides are going one way or the other?

[163] How do they predict that?

[164] Yeah, I mean, tides are so predictable.

[165] So in theory, they change every six hours.

[166] So in theory, when we sat down and we looked, we know that if you do six hours on, six hours off, for 157 days, you'll make it around the coast of Great Britain.

[167] And that was the theory.

[168] So you do this by phasic sleep and you swim for 12 hours a day.

[169] But that's all theory.

[170] There's times when, as I mentioned, giant whirlpools or the tides might not necessarily, if you imagine sort of that's Great Britain there, the tides don't necessarily go always like this, so they're not that predictable.

[171] sometimes if there's kind of like this, like that's kind of whales there, the tides will do this.

[172] So you're doing all these different things that people are not going to see.

[173] Right.

[174] If they're listening to it on audio, so just try to just describe it.

[175] Right.

[176] So basically, rather than the tides just going up and down and working with you, sometimes they cross.

[177] Cross, yeah.

[178] So you're just kind of getting slapped across the face by tides essentially.

[179] And it's not just helping you.

[180] You're going to basically zigzag all the way up the coast of Great Britain.

[181] So as predictable as tides are, we found there was so much stuff that when we were out there, we were like, oh, it wasn't meant to do that, or a giant whirlpool wasn't meant to be there, you know, but it is.

[182] And that was what was, you know, pretty, yeah, pretty sketchy it sometimes, you know, that when we're out there, if a whirlpool just decides to appear, you've got, there's not really enough time to say, oh, hang on, that wasn't on the map.

[183] Can we look at that?

[184] Can we speak to the Met Office and talk about, you know, weather reports?

[185] No, you just, you either had to swim through it or try and get out there.

[186] as you could.

[187] So when you encounter something like that and you get stuck, do you pull out of the water and try back again later at the same location?

[188] You do, but quite often, if it was there, it's still going to be there.

[189] Oh, it is what it is.

[190] Yeah.

[191] So sometimes there's an option.

[192] And perhaps the best example of this, I mentioned it before, it's called the Corrie of Vecan, so sort of west coast of Scotland.

[193] And it's a giant whirlpool.

[194] And Matt, the captain, turned to me and said, look, Ross, you know, I need you to swim and I need to swim hard.

[195] You know, you need to swim six hours.

[196] hours, you just need to be clear of this whirlpool.

[197] So as we were swimming past it, I set my watch and so I'm hard for six hours, but about three hours in, I got stung by jellyfish.

[198] And I've been stung by jellyfish a lot before.

[199] It's just, you know, it's painful, but it was bearable.

[200] But this one particular jellyfish, it just, it was searing into my skin.

[201] It just, it wouldn't stop throbbing.

[202] And so I carried on swimming three hours passed and it was just unbearable.

[203] So I popped my head up and I looked at Matt, the captain from the boat.

[204] I said, Matt, I'm so sorry.

[205] I've been stung.

[206] I'm going to have to stop.

[207] I've been stunned by a jellyfish, but the pain's just not going away.

[208] And as I said that to him, he looked down at me and he said, yeah, I know, because the tentacles still wrapped around your face.

[209] So I'd basically been swimming for three hours.

[210] With a jellyfish on your face.

[211] Wearing a jellyfish.

[212] So it wrapped into my goggles.

[213] So I took my goggles off, unpealed this fat tentacle, threw it away.

[214] And then, like I said, I'll show you in a minute.

[215] There was a picture where my face sort of changed shape and the goggles wouldn't fit on my face anymore because my eye sockets was so swelled but I knew that again for all of this happening the Corrie of Ecken the giant Walpole was still to my left so Matt was like you still need to swim you still need to swim so I ended up putting the goggles over my face and to try and get them to seal I just punched them into my face so you just had these perfect ring and then I managed to...

[216] Because you were so swollen yeah so you had to push them through the swelling basically yeah oh my god so you swim i made another hour we got clear of the core of eckons we managed to clear this giant whirlpool i collapsed onto the boat and um and this is the thing it was at that point that i collapsed exhausted face now a different shape to when i started that particular swim and um and the team looked at me and they saw how bad i was how how beaten up i was but they also knew that that the sea just doesn't care and in six hours the tide was going to change and I'm going to have to do that all over again.

[217] Wow.

[218] And it was that kind of brutal lesson from nature that from a sports science background, I'm interested in, you know, rehab, rest, recovery, nutrition strategies, all of this.

[219] But with swimming around Great Britain, it very quickly became apparent that the sea just doesn't care.

[220] It just doesn't care that you need to rehab your shoulders.

[221] It doesn't care that the ligaments and tendons in your shoulders are hurting.

[222] You might get impingement from swimming too much.

[223] none of this and um that's why it went from swimming as i understood it and how a lot of people understand it to something completely like surviving basically in the water so your swimming schedule would be six hours on and then you would try to rest when would you eat uh during the swims or or between during the swims yeah yeah so quite often just you know throwing bananas at me and and wow salty bananas basically yeah yeah just salty bananas yeah just salty bananas yeah just salty And you eat them while you're in the water?

[224] Yeah, because again, going back to what we were talking about with the pendulum first, you could get out and you could get on the boat.

[225] But sometimes in a really good tide, if you are just in the water, you could be making four knots.

[226] You don't have to swim.

[227] But if you get in the freezing cold water of Scotland and you are quite happy getting hit in the face by tentacles, you can still make four knots.

[228] And so that's why so often it became about something different than swimming.

[229] it was just it was just mental fortitude it was physical fortitude it was basically and i always remember actually first day of autumn um i got up it was two o 'clock so it was a night swim two o 'clock in the morning and i left my wetsuit out to dry and um i had to scrape just a thin layer of ice off the wetsuit before i could put it on but if i didn't if i didn't get in and i didn't scrape that that that would have been you know 15 miles potentially that we would have missed out on And if you miss those 15 miles, the window of opportunity to swim around Great Britain because of the British summer being notoriously unpredictable and quite short, we wouldn't have made it round because even towards the end, there was two storms, Storm Allum and Storm Callum, who kind of stopped us for those two days where we couldn't swim because you just couldn't swim in a storm.

[230] It wasn't safe.

[231] So when you were swimming, this was all during the summer?

[232] Yeah, yeah.

[233] Through the autumn and then we finished November.

[234] the fourth, which was going into the winter, as well.

[235] And you started what month?

[236] June the first.

[237] So for since June, you've been swimming.

[238] Yeah, basically.

[239] God damn, man. That's so crazy.

[240] You know what's interesting too, you're not built like a guy I'd expect to be doing this.

[241] Right.

[242] You're built like a tank.

[243] Like, that's not normal.

[244] Like, you're a big jack guy.

[245] Right.

[246] You look more like an MMA fighter or a power lifter even.

[247] Right.

[248] Like, you don't look like an endurance athlete.

[249] Yeah, which is, and we were just, we were speaking about this because I, I love the episode with you and C .T. Fletcher.

[250] I love that guy.

[251] I loved that.

[252] And I, you know, as a big fan of, you know, camera, there you are.

[253] Look at this fucking picture.

[254] Yo, dude.

[255] Get the fuck out of here.

[256] If someone said that guy's going to swim around Graplett, I'd be like, that guy's going to swim for half an hour and he's going to have a fucking heart attack.

[257] No, you're right.

[258] There was a lot.

[259] Yeah, and I would probably be inclined to agree with you.

[260] But what I find interesting is when you start looking at, um, the strength and stamina for so often people believe the two couldn't coexist right and Robert Hickson and his his sort of research around concurrent training that basically saying if you train for strength and stamina you dilute the potency of the stimuli so what I mean by that is if you know we went into the gym just now and you know me you and Jamie walked into the gym and we were like okay okay let's let's go and see uh what we're doing on in the squat rack you know that's strength your body's ability to generate force and we train that and then all of a sudden I was like okay no no no no now let's go over to the rowing machine or let's go for a swim, let's go and swim 10k, then all of a sudden our bodies are going to go, well, hang on, which one do you want us to adapt to?

[261] You know, looking at molecular biology, which one do you want us to adapt to, strength or stamina?

[262] And again, you dilute the potency of that stimuli.

[263] However, there's the theory that if you separate them within the laws, I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent here, but, please.

[264] Thank you.

[265] It's good.

[266] Looking at Verkoshansky, so one of the greatest strength and conditioning coaches to ever exist.

[267] He talks about this idea of adaptive.

[268] energy saying that in any given day you have a certain amount of adaptive energy and if you are able to fit both a training session that that like I said causes your body to adapt to both strength and stamina you separate them under those conditions they can coexist you separate them by how much time as much as needed for optimal recovery so so yeah if we did and this is that this is what I find fascinating about MMA because you're essentially saying to an MMA athlete I need you to be strong, fast, quick.

[269] I need you to be muskily endured, but I also need you to have plyometric speed strength.

[270] And their body's going, you want us to be all of those things.

[271] Right.

[272] You know, and that's why quite often, it's the athlete with a higher work capacity who can, you know, adapt to those, looking at like, you know, the Diaz brothers who just do triathlons for fun.

[273] You know, they have this insane work capacity, you know, so that's kind of your, your body's ability to perform and positively tolerate training of a given intensity or duration.

[274] Right.

[275] So if you have the Diaz brothers and you say, okay, we're going to now do weight training in the morning, but by the afternoon, I also need to go swim a 10K.

[276] Their bodies could tolerate that, whereas if you have another athlete who perhaps, you know, doesn't have that work capacity, their body's not going to positively tolerate it.

[277] Right, a person who's used to working up maybe only an hour a day.

[278] Yeah, absolutely.

[279] So that's essentially how I would approach anything like this.

[280] But what I found really interesting when you were talking with CT Fletcher was when you look at strength and stamina, it's so specific.

[281] So, you know, said principle, specific adaptation to impose demands, you know, you get good at whatever you continually practice.

[282] And when you look at endurance in weight -bearing sports, absolutely, you know, you can argue that running, for instance, is just, you know, power -to -weight ratio.

[283] It's a series of successive jumps.

[284] And when you start looking at that, there's research that will show adding, we did this with the Royal Marines back in England, when you just add one kilo of extra weight in a backpack.

[285] its effect on pulmonary ventilation, lactic threshold, time to fatigue, all of those things.

[286] Just one kilogram, that's it.

[287] And so that's why when you see Tour de France and people like Chris Froome, Bradley Wiggins, you know, from Team Sky, they are just looking at the body saying, okay, your VO2 is what it is, your power to weight ratio, that's what we need to improve.

[288] We need to treat you like a Formula One car.

[289] We need to take away anything, you know, so when you look at Chris Frum, you know, an unbelievable athlete, and they say, well, look, you don't need biceps, you don't need triceps, so they will remove those, controlled muscular atrophy.

[290] And how do they approach that?

[291] Intelligently, I suppose, looking at anything from, you know, a calorie deficit.

[292] Just tell them not to pick anything up ever?

[293] Kind of, yeah.

[294] And it's just, exactly.

[295] That's crazy.

[296] There it is.

[297] There you go.

[298] Got no triceps.

[299] They don't, they went away.

[300] Exactly.

[301] But, I mean, that is the perfect example of, you know, you know, said principle, specific adaptation to impose demands that all he does is he lives on a bike.

[302] so as a result his body is a byproduct of what he continually practices just got bike muscles yeah yeah and so looking at that and sorry going back to strength and stamina that when you look at running you could argue that you know being jacked and being heavier yes absolutely your power to weight ratio is going to impact you so for instance i like to run but i don't stand a chance against some of my friends who are you know fell runners and they weigh you know 30 kilos less than me however rich rich raw exactly yeah thin lean long guys just yeah you look at an unbelievable specimen of a man you go yes you were built for endurance but as soon as you go in the water things might start to change a little bit because now it's non -weight bearing so the power to weight ratio is a little bit different so then you could and this is all theory for the moment but looking at the body shape to swim around great britain because no one's ever done it before so you can say okay what does that body type look like and when writing down a checklist you say we need someone who can swim in you know 40 knots of wind wind over tide that we're talking about so you're not going to break on top of that as well you can start to look at um all of a sudden we need someone who's never going to take a day off so i wasn't sick throughout those 157 days so there you start looking at adaptive energy and and work capacity that we just spoke about and then all of a sudden you can start getting real into the detail of looking at, okay, someone with a higher muscle mass, if they're able to effectively swim and their biomechanics are on point, so that's not, you know, this muscle mass isn't interfering with their biomechanics, could it be argued that that stored muscle glycogen can almost turn them into a human whale, you know, that, yeah, you're right, you put me into the pool with Michael Phelps and he lapsed me, you know, he, to look at him swim, it's unbelievable, he looks like a dolphin, it's beautiful.

[303] But when it comes to something like, around Great Britain, it's just an eating competition, you know, with a little bit of swimming involved.

[304] And you just need to make sure you don't break.

[305] And that goes back to the tides as well, your body working with tides.

[306] If you can just keep getting in the water for 157 days, 12 hours a day, and not break, you'll make it wearing Great Britain base.

[307] So you think the muscle mass aids you in that way?

[308] I would argue, yes.

[309] Yeah.

[310] I mean, and this is purely anecdotal, and I'd love to actually do more research into this, but certainly with a lot of athletes that I train with, that it's almost like a bell curve.

[311] So if you can imagine, you know, for those listening, like a bell curve like that, how do you describe that?

[312] Just like a horseshoe.

[313] Yeah, yeah.

[314] So you can argue that here around endurance, so if you've got somebody who's, you know, to use Rich Rolls, example, an amazing swimmer, that over 10K, he's going to be amazing because his efficiency and everything.

[315] But then past this point, so when we start looking at the mileage that we were covering, so sort of English channel swim is 20 miles plus a day, At this point, this leaner swimmer is going to start running out of muscle glycogen.

[316] His biomechanics might break down because he doesn't have the strength to hold that position continually.

[317] All of those things, the waves start crashing in, he's starting to swim into 40 knots of wind.

[318] What's going to happen?

[319] Are you going to be, would you favor the leaner quicker, more streamlined swimmer, or would you argue that the guy with more muscle mass here is going to continue to swim?

[320] Not necessarily at the same pace, but would continue not to break.

[321] I think it depends on who the man with the muscle mass is.

[322] because a lot of guys with muscle mass, they got that muscle mass from doing very low reps, high weight.

[323] I mean, what kind of exercise do you do that gives you a build like that?

[324] See, and that's a good point.

[325] I mean, I loved what you did with Dorian Yates.

[326] And I think when you start looking at the three mechanisms to build muscular hypertrophy, you start looking at metabolic stress.

[327] So metabolic stress being exactly what you just said, lots of lots of reps. Dorian Yates been a great example of that.

[328] that is more muscular hypertrophy, bodybuilding centric work.

[329] That's metabolic stress, lots and lots of reps. But then you can also look at mechanical tension.

[330] So that's more your power lifters, you know, really, really high weight, lower volume, just real strength, your body's ability to generate force.

[331] That is what I do.

[332] And yes, it's shown to induce muscular hypertrophy, so to increase muscle mass, but arguably more functional, you know, than when you'd be looking at a, you know, bodybuilder, Mr. Olympia, something like that.

[333] And then you have a muscle damage, which is more eccentric contraction, some more arguably sort of cross -fit.

[334] So a bodybuilder, to achieve that physique besides using steroids, they have to use lots of repetitions.

[335] Yes.

[336] Is that the idea?

[337] Yeah, that's it.

[338] So when you say what do I specifically use, it's more mechanical tension.

[339] So it's more powerlifting, cleans, dead lifts, things along those lines?

[340] Is exactly it.

[341] Yeah, yeah.

[342] Yeah, because you're not built like a bodybuilder, but you're built like someone who's very strong.

[343] Yeah.

[344] Yeah.

[345] And I think that's it where you start.

[346] And that's not to say, you know, when you look at, you know, to use you as an example.

[347] So if we had you in the sports lab, we would say, okay, what is your strength deficit?

[348] So your strength deficit is, you know, say we had you on, you know, the leg press.

[349] And we said, Joe, we want to look at how much force your legs can generate with you just using basically your training strength.

[350] Your training strength is defined as the strength that you would use just leg pressing, not getting you all like to start to pre -work.

[351] workouts, smelling salts, none of that.

[352] We would just say, Joe, go and leg press, and you just leg press.

[353] And that's what you can generate there.

[354] But then, in the sports side back at Loughborough University, we would start using basically using electrical impulses to make the muscles contract beyond what you could generate yourself.

[355] So that is what your body could generate without you trying to send those impulses of bodies.

[356] It's you, the actual potential muscle, the strength of the muscles themselves.

[357] How do you determine that?

[358] Like I said, basically, electrocuting the muscles and stimulating it involuntarily.

[359] And through that, they measure it how?

[360] So, oh, so that measures your maximal output with you not trying to use it yourself.

[361] It's involuntary.

[362] So that is something that you wouldn't have control over.

[363] So they, how do they do that?

[364] Like, essentially, electrocating you.

[365] But what kind of, what is it, like electrodes that slap on your legs?

[366] And they force you to extend your legs?

[367] Yeah, you would have seen it.

[368] Yeah, exactly.

[369] You lift a weight with that?

[370] Yeah, you can do, yeah.

[371] So that's what they do?

[372] Yeah, yeah.

[373] I've never heard of such a thing.

[374] Yeah.

[375] So you would be sitting in a leg press.

[376] Oh, or anything.

[377] So cord extensions.

[378] And it would make your legs extend?

[379] Yeah, yeah.

[380] Wow.

[381] So they would monitor your strength.

[382] So the difference between that, so all of a sudden they'll say, okay, this over here, your training strength is what you could do, Joe, when I was just saying, okay, lift that.

[383] Right.

[384] And it's what you were going, okay, I'll lift it.

[385] And then over here, when it's involuntary, That is what you could actually do.

[386] That's the potential of the muscles.

[387] What's usually the higher number?

[388] Oh, absolutely.

[389] Well, so it's always involuntary.

[390] Really?

[391] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[392] How much?

[393] And that's the strength deficit.

[394] So do you see what I mean?

[395] So, okay, so over here, this is what you could generate when you're just going, okay, one, two, three, and I'm lifting it myself.

[396] Ah, okay, that's done.

[397] And over here is what we do when it's involuntary.

[398] Now, if there's a big deficit, okay, so if there's a huge deficit between the two.

[399] That means you're a pussy?

[400] it means your words it means if there's a large deficit between the two it means that you have muscle mass but you're not fully using it so you might see a large deficit between the two if you had a bodybuilder for instance because they've got a lot of muscle mass but they're not using it does that make sense why aren't they using it?

[401] Because its strength is functional so they've got all this muscle mass but they're not recruiting it they've not actually train strength because strength is neuromuscular.

[402] So when a bodybuilder does like high repetitions and what was the type of load that you were calling that how they that was causing hypertrophy?

[403] So that's metabolic stress.

[404] Metabolic stress.

[405] So just a sheer number of sets.

[406] Yeah.

[407] Just constant repetitions over and over and over again with not that high a weight.

[408] Yes.

[409] Yeah.

[410] And that's meant to but then mechanical tension is when it's more powerlifting.

[411] Right.

[412] So there's your difference between the two.

[413] So the reason being is meta, so when you start looking at mechanical tension, that might produce an athlete who has a smaller strength deficit.

[414] Right.

[415] So when, again, using you as an example, if there was a smaller strength deficit between what you could voluntarily leg press, you know, leg extension, hamstring extension, and then involuntary, there's a smaller deficit.

[416] It would like, I would liken it to, okay, Joe, you have this much muscle mass, but you're using a lot of your potential.

[417] you're using it already.

[418] It's almost like you've got a Formula One car with a huge engine, but you're using it to its full extent.

[419] And this is why I'm going off on a slight tangent here, but this is why when you start looking at bodybuilding centric work, so this idea of increasing muscular hypertrophy, it can be a good thing when you understand that strength deficit.

[420] So you might have an athlete who you go, okay, you have a small strength deficit, it's very small.

[421] So for the muscle mass that you have, you're using it to its absolute full potential.

[422] It's like you have a very small car, but you are just pushing down the accelerator so hard and it can't go anymore.

[423] It's just redlined.

[424] Exactly.

[425] So the option that we have is to increase the size of the car.

[426] The option we have is to increase the size of your muscle mass. Does that make sense?

[427] It does.

[428] Yeah.

[429] It does.

[430] What kind of training were you doing to increase your capacity for work while maintaining the mass?

[431] Yeah.

[432] And this goes, it's a bit of a strange story.

[433] So this goes back to something I almost call, you know, horsepower programming, which I think is so often lost now.

[434] I think training is very specific.

[435] When you go into the gym, are you training for strength, speed, stamina?

[436] Whereas horsepower programming, I almost borrowed from Soviet Union principles.

[437] You start looking at general physical preparedness as it was known.

[438] And this is this just idea of you take an athlete, certainly a younger athlete, and you're trying to increase their work capacity by non -specific movements.

[439] So you'll get, you know, an athlete, you're handed, you imagine, okay, you're a young kid just growing up and your parents hand you to me. I'm your coach.

[440] And I say, okay, I don't know if Joe's going to be big, strong.

[441] I don't know if he's going to be able to run far or fast.

[442] I don't know.

[443] So what we're going to do is just increase your sort of neuromuscular efficiency and work capacity.

[444] And so by doing that, it's kind of jumps, throws, non -specific, these natural movement patterns.

[445] And we get you to do lots and lots of this.

[446] what that's doing is work capacity, your body's ability to positively tolerate training and given to intensity or duration.

[447] And I think from the Great British Swim, when a lot of people were say, how was it that you were able to tolerate those 12 hours a day, the jellyfish things and everything, for me, one of the biggest things was going back to, and this is going to sound so odd, but I ran a marathon pulling a car three years ago, I think now.

[448] and so that is almost the perfect embodiment of horsepower programming in that that sheer stress on the body but it's not a specific skill when you say you ran a marathon behind a car pulling a car you mean pulling a car so in front of a car yeah not behind a car no yeah so it was um you pulled a car and ran a marathon yeah what the fuck dude look at you no you seem so normal that's what's so confusing to me like if If I met you, there's something about a lot of these endurance people.

[449] Well, I guess not Courtney.

[450] Courtney Dolwalter, she's so carefree and silly.

[451] But you're very loose and relaxed.

[452] I always consider, like, those people are dark.

[453] There's some darkness to those extreme endurance athletes.

[454] Yeah.

[455] There's darkness that they're running from some darkness.

[456] You know what I mean?

[457] No, I do.

[458] I've had this conversation with a few people because they said something similar.

[459] And I think it's, I mean, you know, to slightly go off on another tangent here, because I think we've covered the physical aspect and work capacity, which I've addressed.

[460] But I think, and this is one thing I genuinely just wanted to almost quiz you on and get your thoughts on this, is certainly the, throughout the Great British Swim, it subjected my body to a fatigue like I've never experienced before.

[461] It was just, yeah, sleep deprivation, just ligaments, tendons in my shoulders just wondering what was going on.

[462] And for me, you almost develop a split personality in that there's times when I'd quite often say you need to swim with a smile because, you know, it's 157 days.

[463] If you're stressed or it's like a marathon where you grit your teeth and you try and get through it, I think we're very aware that, you know, the body is this complex biochemical organism.

[464] And if you're stressed, cortisol level spike inflammation, your immune system, everything's affected.

[465] So for me, I was treating it not like a marathon.

[466] and I had to treat it swim with a smile, you know, think this is, this is life now, you know, see.

[467] But then equally, there were times when, you know, I wouldn't swim with a smile.

[468] It was just, you know, Corrie Wreckon being a great example.

[469] You know, I certainly wasn't all that happy then.

[470] And for me, it's those times when I say you've got to just get feral.

[471] You know, you really just got to, and a good friend of mine, you know, back in England, SAS trained.

[472] And he said to me, Ross, you're a really nice guy and everything.

[473] But there's going to be times when you just need to, you know, no smiles and just get feral, which I thinking about it, and because I had 12 hours to think a day, I was mulling this over in my head.

[474] For me, it goes back to Tim Noakes, central governor theory, looking at how fatigue is an emotionally driven state that we use to pull that physiological handbrake.

[475] So, you know, for those listening, sort of 16 miles into a marathon, you might be saying, No way.

[476] I can't keep it in one foot in front of the other.

[477] There's no way.

[478] And then all of a sudden, 25 miles in, your family and friends are clapping you and you get that second wind and you start sprinting.

[479] And for me, looking at the sort of central governor theory, I found that in complete exhaustion, like when you absolutely have nothing left, you almost go into this feral state.

[480] You know, so like a like an injured dog, you know, where a lot of people will say, oh, you know, remember why you started.

[481] Think of your family.

[482] and friends.

[483] And I was like, no, no, no. I was at a level of fatigue where I wasn't thinking about, you know, family and friends.

[484] I was thinking almost, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs where it starts with just food, shelter, oxygen.

[485] I was at that sort of level where there was sea ulcers.

[486] I mean, my neck's kind of healed now, but, you know, there was times when chafing on my neck, my tongue was falling apart.

[487] It's fine now, by the way, Jay.

[488] Your tongue was falling apart?

[489] my tongue from the salt water yeah yeah and and falling apart like how so it's what it's called salt tongue and after 12 hours in the water every single day um your your tongue would essentially start to disintegrate so oh jesus yeah so i was i woke up and there was parts of my tongue on my pillow and yeah no so this is is there any concern that this is permanent or it was permanent at the time were you concerned absolutely and i think that's that's that's that's That's, but that's what goes back to that, that hierarchy of needs where you're not thinking about family and friends or what motivates you and what, you know, you're thinking, I want to keep my tongue.

[490] Fuck, man. Because no one is really, people have gone on long swims before, but has anybody done six months?

[491] I don't think so.

[492] There's Ben LaCompter at the moment who's going across the Pacific, but he is using a snorkel.

[493] So he kind of cleverly.

[494] thought about that whereas for me i thought no this has to be done without properly were you thinking about the guy who's just doing the breaststroke and saying well if he did it fuck captain when then this is it yeah it was wow so yeah so no that and it was at that point that i think um you you are feral you know you're just thinking survive yeah one one arm in front of the other keep going is it exactly that you wow so here there's pieces of your tongue this is a video that you made where pieces of your tongue were falling apart wow the effect of salt build up on the tongue and this is on Ross's Instagram which is Ross E -D -G -L -E -Y I put it up on my Instagram too I retweeted or reposted one of your things to let people know about this oh that is so nasty dude you can see the taste buds on it that's how thick so was it fucking with your taste buds oh yeah yeah the way you tasted things Oh, yeah, and that started to have an impact on, you know, the food as well, because, I mean, like granola, I was eating so much granola, but when then that happened, it's like rubbing sandpaper on an open wound.

[495] Oh, yeah, right, the grit and the oats.

[496] Exactly.

[497] So, and that was how we had to just adapt on the day.

[498] So it's during that, that video is great, actually.

[499] I mean, that was in the cabin.

[500] And I remember just thinking, like, now I'm not thinking, you know, family and friends.

[501] To talk about those, as you just said, those darker moments, I think now it's very easy for me to.

[502] to be very grateful.

[503] I'm warm, sitting in the studio with you.

[504] There's no jellyfish, but there's times there where, you know, it was dark on my neck as well.

[505] I mean, my neck was bad, but we didn't actually catch the moment was probably the worst on that, where I went to bed with this open wound from the wetsuit chafing, basically.

[506] And as I woke up, the bed sheet had fused to my neck.

[507] Oh, so I just had to rip it off.

[508] Rip it off from the pus on your neck?

[509] Oh, Jesus Christ, son.

[510] and then you had to get in that salt water which must have felt great right yeah fuck man yeah what was it like when you finished what did it feel like when the last stroke and then you got out of the water and you're like holy shit i just swam for six months it was yeah it was it was so strange because when we left in june we came back obviously to the same point and we left in the british summer and everyone was on the beach and and and then i came around people are putting up christmas decorations and i was like what i'd been gone for so long at sea it was just it's so crazy how many days was it total 157 oh my god that is so insane it just so much change and oh yeah here here we go that was the the finish so this is swimming back then this is you who are these people these fucking hangers on falling you around pretending they did it too oh no no no no it's i ross is my friend So I felt that it was such a team effort.

[511] Look at all those people waiting for you.

[512] My legs were so shaky, Joe.

[513] At this point, I'm thinking, don't fall over, don't fall over.

[514] Wow.

[515] Because it has, I mean, this is the thing.

[516] I think I stumble in a little minute.

[517] That is such madness, man. Yeah.

[518] That is such a madness.

[519] And you crossed the Red Bull finish line.

[520] I got a trident.

[521] That was pretty cool.

[522] Wow.

[523] That's at home at the moment.

[524] Oh, they hooked you up?

[525] Yeah.

[526] What's that made out of?

[527] It was really sturdy.

[528] I don't know.

[529] I think it feels like a bronze type thing, but this.

[530] Who are all these.

[531] fucking phonies you didn't do it with them get out of water you fucking posers but i i said i was like i feel that the way that it it captured everyone's amount it just only felt right i get it to do that do you swim yes you do yeah what just in the pool why didn't you come and get involved i didn't even know about it you know how i found out about you because i was i was reading on the internet and i found out about it and i sent it to all my friends after over October to show what pussies we were.

[532] I was like, you guys think what we did was hard?

[533] And we did ain't shit.

[534] And I sent it to Tom and Bert and Ari, and we were all just like, fuck.

[535] Because whenever you hear about someone doing something crazy, there's always someone who does something far crazier to just one up the crazy person.

[536] And it keeps going and going and going.

[537] Like there's a race that Courtney Dilwalter, who's been a guest on the show before, she won the Moab 240, which is a 238 -mile race through the Moab Mountains.

[538] And it's just an insane race.

[539] Not only did she win it, she won it by more than 10 hours ahead of the second place guy.

[540] She's just a fucking straight savage.

[541] So she recently entered a race, and she came in second place.

[542] And this race, they would run for four miles in an hour.

[543] And then they would stop.

[544] When the hour was over, they would stop.

[545] and then when the next hour started they would run another four miles like four point something miles and they would do it for six days that's crazy they did it's like last man standing and then at the very end one person won like it's like who's gonna drop out last so they just kept doing so the guy who created this race see if you can find anything on this guy because he's apparently very sadistic and his idea was that people run these 100 mile races or a 50 mile race and if you just finish you feel like a winner and he's like well bullshit he goes there can't be a winner if if somebody comes in first place and then you're your second place you're not the winner yeah it's like there's one winner oh berkeley marathons yeah he's apparently chain smokes too he's amazing so this is the berkeley marathons you know about this did you see last same guy he ran he created that race and this is another race he created yeah he's amazing so did you see i think it was last year jemmy is it right what's the berkeley marathon what is it the berkeley or barclay man Barclay, Berkeley?

[546] Berkeley or Barclay?

[547] Is the Barclay the one that nobody could figure out how to...

[548] Barclay, it's Barclay with an air.

[549] That's the weird one.

[550] Yeah, and I think it was, if you search this Jamie as well, I think it was last year or the year before, I believe it's the 24 -hour race or 40 hours.

[551] But the guy missed out on finishing it by, I think it was a minute.

[552] So he ran the entire, and then at the end, and you see him on the floor, he's absolutely devastated.

[553] And he didn't he take a wrong turn somewhere along the line?

[554] Yeah.

[555] Because it's really difficult to follow that path.

[556] But admirably, he just got up and he shook his hand and just said, I just want to thank you for that.

[557] He said sometimes, you know, the Berkeley Marathon wins.

[558] But, you know, that takes something different, right?

[559] Well, definitely takes something different to see if, find out if I'm correct in how they do it.

[560] I retweet it, the Courtney Dolwalter one.

[561] I retweeted it from Courtney where it says it's like getting punched in the face very softly over and over and over again.

[562] Yep, that's exactly.

[563] Yeah, I compare it to being punched in the face.

[564] Can you put it up, though?

[565] If you put the article up.

[566] Well, this is a version of the article.

[567] I don't know if that's the exact one you have.

[568] Yeah, that's exactly it.

[569] So if you scroll down, you'll see the, the specifications.

[570] Yeah.

[571] And, yeah.

[572] And this is what I find amazing, because then it becomes about something completely different.

[573] I mean, we were just talking now about Kipchogi and the two -hour marathon.

[574] But it's like if you put Kipchogi into this, you know who's going to win it says they had an hour to complete the 4 .1667 mile loop and then they finish within 15 minutes to spare the bell clangs again at 7 .40 a .m. they run it again and then at 8 .40 a .m. they run it again at 940 they run it again so every hour you run this 4 .1667 mile loop and then the bell just keeps clanging forever Why do you think there's more people doing these events now as well?

[575] Well, I think it's the same thing as everything else.

[576] The same thing as if you buy a car today, you want it to accelerate from zero to 60 in two and a half seconds.

[577] Right.

[578] A few years ago, that was unheard of.

[579] If you buy a computer today, you want it to be 3 .8 gigahertz and 5 terabyte hard drive.

[580] And that's the same every year.

[581] We want improvements.

[582] Right.

[583] And I think when you hear someone's going to run a 100 -mile race, you go, yeah, that's cute.

[584] But I'm going to run 200 miles.

[585] And they're like, that's not even possible, the same as the 4 -minute mile.

[586] Right.

[587] Someone runs the 200 miles.

[588] Like, holy shit.

[589] I can't believe a guy ran for three days.

[590] He ran 200 miles.

[591] And then someone like Courtney comes along and goes, I'm going to do it in two days.

[592] And they're like, what?

[593] And then she runs it in two days.

[594] And then someone, they're talking about now doing a 500 -mile ultramarathon.

[595] Yeah.

[596] And what I find amazing, who, what's the after?

[597] look like?

[598] Who completes that?

[599] Do you know what I mean?

[600] Well, Courtney's very thin.

[601] She's very light and very thin.

[602] And, you know, she's not the type of person that would win a regular marathon.

[603] This is what was interesting.

[604] My friend Cam Haynes, who also runs these, and he ran the...

[605] And he's quite big.

[606] He's pretty jacked.

[607] Yeah, he works.

[608] He lifts a lot.

[609] Yeah, yeah.

[610] But he cuts a lot of body weight when he does those.

[611] Okay.

[612] But the way he does it is he's a hard man. He's what I was talking about, like, this people have darkness.

[613] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[614] He's got some darkness.

[615] He just, like, he'll burn.

[616] 3 ,000 calories, eat 2 ,000.

[617] And so he'll force his body to eat itself.

[618] Right.

[619] And so he drops down to the 160 -something pound range and then that's what he likes to weigh.

[620] When he normally walks around like 185, he's pretty built.

[621] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[622] But then he drops way down.

[623] He'll lose like 20 pounds of muscle because he's always lean.

[624] He's not losing body fat.

[625] He's just forcing his body to literally eat itself just through mental toughness.

[626] But he's still quite big.

[627] Even when he's turning up on the start line and he's lost that, he's still Big for an endurance athlete.

[628] But maybe that's one of the reasons why he doesn't win these things.

[629] He comes in like third, fourth.

[630] I mean, and also, you know, he hasn't been doing it as long as them, and he's 51 years old now.

[631] Wow.

[632] But he's an animal, man. And this is just that kind of mental fortitude that it takes to do one of those things or to do what you did.

[633] It's a very unusual kind of drive, and people are very excited by that drive.

[634] And they're very intrigued by it, and it's very attractive.

[635] It's very attractive to attempt to do.

[636] It's very attractive to pay attention to and watch because everyone knows how difficult.

[637] It's undeniably difficult.

[638] Like if someone says, if you talk to someone who doesn't know how to run at all, they don't do anything, they just sit on the couch.

[639] Hey man, get up, get up.

[640] We're going to run three miles.

[641] Like, fuck.

[642] At the end of that three miles, they will collapse.

[643] They'll lay down their back.

[644] Their heart would be pounding.

[645] Their chest to be heaving.

[646] So they know that's hard.

[647] Everybody knows that's hard.

[648] Everybody at one point in their life has run until they're exes.

[649] exhausted.

[650] Whether it's 500 yards or five miles or whatever.

[651] Every from when you were a kid, there's always been a moment where we tested ourselves.

[652] So we're familiar with that feeling of not being able to go on.

[653] So when they see a guy like you who went through that feeling for six fucking months or was it five months total?

[654] Five months.

[655] Five months, man. Five months is an insane amount of time.

[656] It is now upon the June, July, August, September.

[657] October, November.

[658] You're into the sixth fucking month when you stop.

[659] That's insane.

[660] But what you just said there, like, do you think, and this is again, because I had 12 hours to think every day, do you think it is unusual?

[661] Or do you think that we now think it's unusual because society has got real comfortable?

[662] You know, and I maintained that stuff that I was doing with salt tongue and everything, ancestors, do you not think they would have just thought, you know, that's just Monday?

[663] you know that's just i don't think anybody ever thought that was just monday no i don't think they would have forced themselves to do that because there's no biological or evolutionary need to do that it's not like you could swim for 12 hours a day and get across the channel and get to a place where there's better fruit you know i don't think our ancestors ever do that i definitely think they did what is that um type of hunting there's actually a term for it endurance hunting well they run an animal down i don't think it's called endurance hunting i think it's there's another term for it but they will literally like if you take an antelope they don't have sweat glands and so they can run far faster than us but it comes a point in time when they overheat so if you just stay on them persistence hunting that's oh that was it yeah yeah yeah i named it right when you pulled it up damn um persistence hunting is and you see it in these uh a lot of these african men who go on to be phenomenal endurance runners i mean they win marathons left and right in this particular parts of Africa that produce incredible runners.

[664] And they think a lot, there was a really, there was a cut and run is a fantastic episode of Radio Lab that details these men from this one certain part in Africa.

[665] I forget where it is.

[666] But see if you pull that up.

[667] But this episode detailed the horrific circumcision rituals that these men had to endure, where they cut their dick and they stick a sift.

[668] stick through it, and then they make them crawl through thorns naked.

[669] Right?

[670] So I saw that there's a guy back in the, I think it's Bruce Parry, so he's an adventurer.

[671] He has done everything you can think of, every tribal initiation, and that's the one that he refused to do.

[672] Good for him.

[673] Keep your dick intact.

[674] Don't those crazy guys cut your dick.

[675] The sand are the oldest inhabitants of southern Africa where they have lived for almost 20 ,000 years.

[676] The term sand is commonly used to refer to a diverse group, diverse group of hunter -gatherers living in South Africa who share historical.

[677] historical linguistic connections many now accept the term Bushman or Sand is that that's Bushman hunting is that from the Radio Lab thing?

[678] Yes that's what they call themselves ABC article here which I would imagine yeah is that the same but is that the same with the the horrible circumcision ritual I'll double check yeah it's fucking horrible but they were arguing in the the when they were discussing it and one of the guys who was on it who had actually been through it and now I believe he lives he lives, maybe he lives in America, but he was saying he would never have his children go through that, but it made him who he is.

[679] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[680] And the idea was that not only are these guys physically gifted, but they also have unbelievable pain tolerance and mental endurance and just mental toughness.

[681] And that this is one of the reasons why they become so successful is that the ability to push a pace for two plus miles or whatever is their marathon time.

[682] is not just dependent upon their physical ability, but also dependent upon their ability to endure pain, like to force themselves past...

[683] You know, anyone can kind of trot along at a really leisurely pace, and it's not painful.

[684] But if you're going hard, you know, you're really going hard.

[685] This is it?

[686] It's the Radio Laptis.

[687] Kenya.

[688] Yeah, it's the...

[689] Capogi, I think is...

[690] Ah, there we go.

[691] Where is...

[692] So, before you...

[693] I mean, I've kind of described it, But they describe it even more horrific detail in the podcast.

[694] And that almost crosses over to, I mean, again, I'm not advocating what you just, you know, genitalia mutilation.

[695] I'm not advocating that.

[696] But there's that idea of adversity training that, like, if you're ever in the gym, it's like, what are you training?

[697] And it's just like strength, what you training?

[698] Speed.

[699] And this is why, you know, I'm a huge fan of Wim Hof because so often what he's doing when he's submerged in ice cold, it's like, well, I'm training my capillaries.

[700] Yeah.

[701] And it's like, what do you mean you're training your capillaries?

[702] And it's these, we're atrophying these age -old inbuilt mechanisms.

[703] So, again, I'm not advocating, you know, what you're telling me. Right, I know what you're saying.

[704] But do you - You're advocating tolerance?

[705] Yeah, do you think that that's maybe missing?

[706] I mean, again, looking at MMA, like maybe that you see, you know, whether it's, you know, mutine and they're like kicking trees and stuff.

[707] Yeah, granted, that's, you know, making denser bones and stuff.

[708] But do you think there's that element as well?

[709] When you look at, what was it?

[710] I forgot what it was now, but you just start looking at just putting people in high -stress situations just to see how they're going to cope.

[711] Like John Fitch, he was notorious for letting people almost try and submit him.

[712] And then they'd tie themselves out.

[713] He was just completely calm.

[714] I maintain that that really depends on who's choking you.

[715] Because Josh Berkman choked him completely unconscious.

[716] Okay, okay.

[717] Yeah, yeah.

[718] You know, Berkman's got a hell of a guillotine, and John Fitz shot in on him, and Berkman caught him in a guillotine, just put him to sleep in the first round.

[719] Right.

[720] I think there's guys that can just put you to sleep.

[721] Right, okay.

[722] If you think that you can get away with that shit with, like, a Marcello Garcia, you're going to wake up going, what happened?

[723] Really?

[724] Okay, yeah, okay.

[725] But most guys won't be able to choke you.

[726] So to that point, you know, and again, I'm catching up on 157 days of UFC.

[727] You know, so I was actually out of sea with McGregor and Khabi.

[728] But on that note, do you think he tapped premature?

[729] Do you think there was that?

[730] Oh, he went to sleep.

[731] McGregor went to sleep.

[732] Oh, that and that fight.

[733] I thought you meant John Fission and Josh Berkman.

[734] Yeah, no, no. I mean, it was a neck crank, right?

[735] No, he did not tap premature.

[736] He did not defend it, though.

[737] Okay.

[738] Here's a deal.

[739] He was done.

[740] He was beaten down.

[741] Kabeb fucked him up.

[742] Khabi smashed him.

[743] But there was a lot of people that don't train.

[744] And this was very frustrating to me. There was many people that don't.

[745] don't train, that think that that was something that you shouldn't tap to.

[746] They're out of their fucking mind.

[747] That is what's called a fulcrum choke.

[748] That's, okay, okay.

[749] And it's not necessarily a choke, but it is, it chokes you, but it really feels like your fucking head's going to pop off.

[750] Right.

[751] What he's doing is he's wrapping around the face and you don't have to even go under the jaw.

[752] You can get it on the chin, especially if you're as strong as Khabib.

[753] Then you clamp your hands together and you're pressing your forearm against his back.

[754] So you've got this and you get the forearm against his back And you're doing this Just leave us And your fucking head is just like And Khabib is so strong His grab he's been grappling since he was a baby Right All of his muscles are designed to squeeze And crush and smash And he gets a hold of your neck in that position And he's got that forearm pressed against your back See if you can find an image of the actual submission You could really clearly see what he's doing.

[755] And then there was a video where Dean Lister and my friend Hans Molenkamp described it.

[756] I was pulling that up and it's been taken off Instagram for some reason.

[757] That video?

[758] Yeah.

[759] The Hans Mollancamp Dean Lister video?

[760] Yeah, I don't know why.

[761] What?

[762] Maybe someone reposted it and that link is gone, but yeah.

[763] Huh.

[764] Did you check Dean Lister's?

[765] That's so weird.

[766] Wonder why anybody would take that down?

[767] Anyway, there's guys who could fuck your face up without even going under the neck.

[768] A good example.

[769] Here's another good example.

[770] Just pull this up.

[771] You got it?

[772] Okay.

[773] It's not the one from right after the fight, but he's still describing it.

[774] Oh, okay.

[775] Oh, this is perfect.

[776] This is perfect.

[777] So Dean Lister, who's a world champion Brazilian Jujitsu black belt, as legit as it gets.

[778] And this is my friend Hans Mollingkamp.

[779] He's also a Brazilian Jujitsu black belt.

[780] And see, this is exactly what Khabib did.

[781] See how his forearm is pressed against the back and the arm is under the chin.

[782] see the difference is what Dean is doing he can't even help himself he's immediately putting his arms his hands on the arm that's choking him that's what you're supposed to do now if you look at what Connor did Connor just waited until he couldn't take it anymore and tapped right right when you see Connor both of his arms are down he's getting his neck cranked and he doesn't do this right that's what you're supposed to do you're supposed to do two on one and then you drop down like look at this see what he's doing there he's tapping but see where his left arm is?

[783] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[784] That left arm should not, you can't, you can't do that.

[785] See, that is a perfect example of the fulcrum choke.

[786] See how he's doing that?

[787] Pressing his forearm against the back, squeezing the head.

[788] It's, it's a neck crank, it's a choke.

[789] There's a lot of shit going on there.

[790] It doesn't have to be under the chin.

[791] It could just be on your face and you're going to get fucked up.

[792] So all those folks out there that were saying that it wasn't a choke need to go have someone apply that to them.

[793] And they need to start training Jiu -Jitsu and stop fucking talking about MMA submissions because they don't that you're going to tap, bitch.

[794] Don't say you're not going to tap.

[795] You're going to fucking tap.

[796] Not everybody's going to tap from that because other people, unlike Connor, are going to be better at defending that.

[797] They're going to great, like you get a hold of a world -class Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu Blackbell who's also an MMA fighter like Vinnie Magales.

[798] He's going to grab a hold of that.

[799] He's going to defend properly.

[800] He's going to judge.

[801] just he's going to try to get out of that yeah yeah he might have to tap if someone gets him in it i mean he people tap but he's he's not going to just have one arm posted that's just not the right way to handle but i think that's because connor had eaten bombs well i was about to ask so that's so you so there's that almost as a i don't know like a continuum there's technical yes which you've just you know and then again i should point out you know again i'm a complete layman when it comes to all mixed martial arts but i find it fascinating the this adversity training aspect.

[802] So you were just saying he was eating bombs before that, would it have helped?

[803] You know, that if he wasn't, do you know what I mean?

[804] Where does it cross over from being?

[805] It would help if he wasn't as tired.

[806] So like if that choke was applied during the first few seconds or minutes of the first round, I think he probably would have had a good chance to survive.

[807] Okay, okay.

[808] What's going on?

[809] Put on Dean Lister.

[810] It's an Ezekiel choke and he's not, it's not being done well.

[811] Oh, but this is a different, this is not an Ezekiel choke.

[812] This is a, this is not an Ezekiel choke.

[813] This is what this is is I mean it's kind of an Ezekiel but see where his hand is you got to really get underneath see his left hand that left hand's got to go not just there it's got to go under the chin that's not good enough for a guy like Dean you go okay now it's pretty fucking tight now it's tight and he's got to get further and further in the further that left arm gets into jean's neck the more more there's going to be a possibility of him choking but Dean has been fucking choked his whole life, which is, but I do have to say that Josh Barnett made him tap.

[814] And Josh Barnett is like one of the few guys that's made Dean Lister tap, and I think the first time he tapped in a decade.

[815] And Josh Barnett got him in a scarf hold, and that was in Meta Morris.

[816] And Josh Barnett, who is, he's a catch wrestling specialist.

[817] Yeah, go to the very end of it here.

[818] Josh Barnett gets a hold of Dean's He gets it See in this position right here He's in side control Which is just impressive enough That Josh is able to do this with a guy like Dean Lister But then he gets him in what's He probably has a different name for it But it's uh We used to call it judo side control It's quite a bit further down on this You gotta keep going Keep going keep going keep going All the way to the end So he gets a hold of his He's got a head and arm choke.

[819] Here it is.

[820] Here it is.

[821] So he's got his head and his arm trapped together, and Josh, who's an enormously powerful person, is really neck -cranking him as much as anything, and then Dean was forced to tap.

[822] But this was at the end of a long match, and, you know, it could have been exhaustion might have played a part in it.

[823] It most certainly was Josh's skill and his ability to apply that technique.

[824] But the point is, a guy like Dean Lister, you're not going to tap that guy easy.

[825] But this is, and again, with sort of holding my hands up saying, I'm so sort of naive, a huge fan of MMA, but not necessarily any of the technical aspects.

[826] But what I love is when you look at someone like, you know, Nick Diaz or Michael Bisping, you know, people don't understand his conditioning and he will just wear people down.

[827] Massive mental toughness, too.

[828] What Bisping has is just insane mental toughness.

[829] You know, Bisping basically has one eye.

[830] Wow.

[831] If you look at his eyes, one of his eye actually, and I hope he can get surgery on it now because he is retired, he has oil, like, embedded in his eye to protect his retina because it's been torn so many times.

[832] It's been torn, he had surgery on it, he had a repair, torn again.

[833] His right eye is fucked up, man. And one of the reasons why he retired is he started to see some irregularities in his vision and his left eye.

[834] So his good eye was fucking up too But I mean Michael Bisping is a fucking animal I mean he's about as tough as it gets And he's not like a spectacularly Physically Talented guy like a John Jones Or Yowell Romero Who's just this unbelievable specimen Michael's a really good athlete Unquestionably But it's just tough Just fucking tough So to answer your question There's this And you could speak to this Because What you're talking about the ability to overcome adversity like some people when you were talking about that fatigue is an emotionally driven thing that there's this feeling that you get and you can give into that feeling where you're like oh my God I fucking can't do this anymore and some people are more susceptible to that than others and they give into it quickly I mean for a person here's where you can experience this like whether or not your mindset can affect your your endurance.

[835] Get on a treadmill or a stationary bike or whatever you want to do for cardio and then listen to a really kick -ass song and put on headphones and that song comes on and you just can't fucking yeah.

[836] You can just go.

[837] There's something about that and even if you're tired, even if you're tired and you've put on a good song like fuck that, we're going to keep going.

[838] Like nothing has happened.

[839] You haven't taken in any kind of a supplement or any kind of a stimulant.

[840] that you haven't gotten an injection in your body, or you're not sucking on some kind of new gas.

[841] Your body's exactly the same.

[842] But through the motivation that you're getting from this music, the emotional stimulation, you're just like, fuck that, we're going to keep going.

[843] Yeah!

[844] And you can keep going.

[845] Not only can you keep going, you can go faster.

[846] You can push harder.

[847] You can find these reserves.

[848] So the idea is that these reserves are always there.

[849] You have to be able to achieve the state of mind that you achieve when you hear a really good song.

[850] And that's true that I think people don't understand you are the alchemist of your own body that, you know, in terms of neurotransmitters, chemical signals in the brain, you can impact those.

[851] Sometimes, yeah, you need external influences, music as you spoke about, sometimes, you know, caffeine.

[852] But when you start to control them, yeah, it can be so powerful.

[853] Some people do it naturally, I suppose, and they've just got it inbuilt.

[854] But when you start to train it, and I think it's only now that we're going down that route and looking at that as a, you know, until previously it was one of those in tantal.

[855] You know, that you kind of underappreciate it in any sport and now we're going, oh, okay, yeah, you know, that person over there is, you know, that mental fortitude or what you're talking about there is maybe their ability to alter their own chemistry, biochemical reactions of the body.

[856] Yeah, there's something real that happens, right?

[857] Yeah.

[858] Like when you hear a song and you get excited, like whatever that, yeah, whatever that burst is, it seems like a real, like if that was a pill and you took it, you'd be like, oh, this works.

[859] Absolutely.

[860] And the thing is, it's been around years.

[861] When you look at like, you know, Marcus Aurelius meditations or Stoic philosophy and they're talking about, you know, dialogue being both external, so the conversations that go on inside your own head are just as important as the conversations you have with other people.

[862] So we've understood this for years.

[863] But it's only just now that we're trying to kind of apply a little bit of science to it, looking at the psychology and this mind -body connection.

[864] But the fact is, yeah, some of the greatest ancient Stoics, they were trying to.

[865] to figure out as well right and when you can start to tap into that where that can become and it might be a particular song you know it might be a bit something you know if you get into you go into a gym or you've got a friend that can bring that out of you again you know my um training back home so you know andy bolton who was the the first guy to deadlift a thousand pounds i mean Jesus yeah yeah i mean a thousand pounds yeah i mean the the clip when you see it and he he he pulls a thousand pounds for It's since been being by Eddie Hall, who did half a ton.

[866] What the fuck, Eddie?

[867] Isn't half a ton a thousand pounds?

[868] A little bit less.

[869] So I think a thousand pounds.

[870] I don't know.

[871] What's that four?

[872] I thought a ton was two thousand pounds, isn't it?

[873] So, yeah, Eddie, what's a thousand pounds in kilos?

[874] Oh, you're trying to do kilos?

[875] Yeah, yeah.

[876] Sorry, the two.

[877] So, yeah, there was two metrics there.

[878] So Andy Bolton, which was a little best was...

[879] 2 .2 kilos per pound?

[880] No, 2 .2 pounds per kilo.

[881] Yeah.

[882] Yeah.

[883] And then, yeah, and when you see him, I mean, this is what I love when you start Oh, Jesus Christ.

[884] So this is Eddie.

[885] That's his, that's his half the time.

[886] How the fuck are his knees staying together right there?

[887] You look, that is obscene.

[888] If you look at how big his body is and how normal size his knees are.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Look at the bones in his knees.

[891] They look so normal.

[892] Yeah.

[893] I mean, that, that is, who are those fucking people?

[894] I know, it's unbelievable.

[895] Like, pick it up.

[896] Pick it up.

[897] It's unbelievable.

[898] Oh, my God.

[899] So when those guys retire, how fucked up are their bodies?

[900] Do you know, Eddie's, what's brilliant about Eddie?

[901] This is the beast tattooed us inside of his arms.

[902] Who's going to argue with him?

[903] Yeah, bro.

[904] Yeah, you're a fucking beast.

[905] His nose is bleeding.

[906] Oh, that's right, right?

[907] His nose started spraying blood while he was, was that him or another guy?

[908] Though I think you, I know, I know, you're the Arnold classic.

[909] I forgot in his name, he's Russian.

[910] Yeah, that shit was wild.

[911] But I mean, Eddie, again, so strength, especially with the deadlift, such as simple movement.

[912] And, you know, the deadlift is just strength is your body's ability to generate.

[913] force.

[914] You know, so it's neuromusculous.

[915] Like what your, your brain is telling your body.

[916] So that goes back to that strength deficit that we were talking about.

[917] You're basically saying to your, your body, recruit every single muscle fibre possible and work in conjunctions with ligaments and tendons.

[918] And let's get half a ton off the floor.

[919] Exactly, right?

[920] But when you look, and certainly with Andy Bolton's a thousand pound lift, he had his friend in his face and he's there going, come on, he's hitting him in the face.

[921] And they're getting, so when we're, so when we're we were talking earlier about, again, strength deficit is that sort of deficit between what you can voluntarily contract and involuntary contract.

[922] That was him obviously voluntarily contracted.

[923] No one was electrician in that particular one.

[924] But they're there and you do anything that you can before you actually step out onto that platform.

[925] And now, I mean, he would have just been, you know, completely written off after that, that sort of adrenal dump afterwards and fatigue, you know, emotionally.

[926] But, and so you have to, you have to think about that, I've forgotten who said it now.

[927] It might have been Pavell, but they said, you know, save fatigue for competition.

[928] And I know you've spoke about that before.

[929] Stop.

[930] I can't remember who you were speaking to.

[931] Pavel's a fascinating guy with his concepts.

[932] Amazing.

[933] Yeah.

[934] So ahead of the curve.

[935] And I know you were talking to, I can't remember who it was now, talking about farmer's strength and that ability to stop short every single day.

[936] So never necessarily going to complete failure.

[937] I think it was for us.

[938] For us a hobby?

[939] I think it was.

[940] Yeah.

[941] Talking about continually.

[942] kind of avoiding that exhaustion phase and solely existing in the adaptation phase.

[943] So, you know, I mean, this goes back to sell you sort of 1936, a Hungarian physician who found, you know, you give, you know, took some lab rats, give them a lethal dose of poison, they kill over and die.

[944] But he found by giving them a little bit of poison, a little bit more, a little bit more, that they built up this intolerance to it.

[945] That was the general adaptation syndrome.

[946] But it was from that that we discovered, stress and stimuli is the key to any adaptation.

[947] And it wasn't until the strength and conditioning community caught on to that.

[948] And we started to think, okay, how can we apply stress and stimuli to the body to bring about a desired result?

[949] And I think certainly now, I think that's kind of overlooked in sport, but certainly the wider fitness industry that, you know, it's easy now in very sort of marketing driven to say, get fit in, you know, five easy steps or, you know, whereas the reality is, you know, it's get fit in eight months after a lot of stress and stimuli.

[950] Yeah, but that get fit and five easy steps.

[951] is really just for it's just a gimmick to get people who don't actually work out to get involved it is but but that's why I love what you broadcast and and even with the sober October and stuff I mean I'm a huge fan of bert but people I know he's he's so funny and everyone loves burke but he's a beast as well I mean it went to rock up and just do a marathon and again go back to power to weight ratio what he did was amazing and I'm saying he's really fat right that's what you're saying I'm not saying I would never say I'm saying power to weight ratio That's okay Wink wink I got you You're not saying that I get it He's a burly guy He's a well -built That's a nice way of saying fat He is a well -built male Somebody took a picture of my face On bird's body And I fucking threw up I'm like Oh my God But what if What if I'm like no Yeah he likes to drink And he still He is a beast Because he despite the fact That he doesn't look like Rich Roll He still can Keep going And people, and I know he was, he was very entertained in the marathon and stuff, but I was actually watching that as the sports scientist in me was like, that's amazing.

[952] And no one's talking about that.

[953] His power to weight ratio and he's still running that marathon, something.

[954] And yeah, so for as funny and as entertaining as it was to watch, I honestly was like, Bert, that's amazing.

[955] What's more amazing is Ari, honestly, because Ari really didn't work out.

[956] Really?

[957] And Ari came in second place, and he came in second place by only a thousand points, which is one day I got a thousand points in a day.

[958] So he was really only a thousand points behind me. But it's a crazy day.

[959] That's like a seven hours of work in a day, or at least six and a half hours of work in a day.

[960] And a lot of it at 80 % of your max heart rate.

[961] But he still, he wasn't doing anything before this thing started.

[962] And he was the first one to figure out that you get the same amount of points for 80 % of your max heart rate as you do for 90.

[963] I thought you'd get more for 90.

[964] So I was just trying to kill myself every day.

[965] And then I was only being able to come up with like 200.

[966] 30 points and and similar along those lines because I was I would max out I was doing like 90 % of my max rate for like 30 35 minutes I was like exhausted and then Ari figured out that 80 points pays just as much right and so he started watching movies while he was on an elliptical machine and that that just turned the whole thing into this sort of steady yeah not fast marathon yeah yeah which was really fascinating because I never exercised like that before and it changed my endurance radically over a month.

[967] Yeah, yeah.

[968] What's interesting is it changed my endurance in things that are explosive, like kickboxing.

[969] Okay.

[970] So having that aerobic base helps with something explosive.

[971] How did you find that?

[972] It helped a lot.

[973] How?

[974] Because I would mix that in.

[975] So I would do, I would do, after a while, we were doing so much exercise that I had to do different things or I would get bored.

[976] So I would do a circuit of the elliptical machine, and then I would follow the elliptical machine.

[977] with or I would do I would run I would on some days I'd either run elliptical machine kickbox and on other days I would do the echo bike which is an air dine machine that rogue makes and then I would do the rowing machine and then I would do the Versa climber and then I added in that air runner treadmill which is what is it called?

[978] Air assault I think Air assault treadmill yeah which is a treadmill that you power yourself your feet pushing on it and pulling it is what makes it go fast.

[979] It's not like a treadmill that you keep up with.

[980] It's actually more difficult than actual running.

[981] Right, right, right.

[982] 13 % more difficult than actual running on the street.

[983] So I was going crazy.

[984] I couldn't do the same things over and over again, so I kept mixing them up.

[985] And when I would mix them up, by the end of the month, my kickboxing was, I had way more endurance.

[986] Like I could do 10 hard rounds going three minutes each round, and then I would recover in between rounds the one minute in between rounds I'd recover quick because I'm wearing a heart rate monitor I'm watching my heart rate dip it was dipping really quickly and then I had all this energy and madness like everything was changing like my capacity for work changed everything adapted I got a little dehydrated one time and I had pissed it looked like iced tea which is not good so I started panicking and wondering about things like robdo myelosis and kidney failure but I didn't have anything wrong with that.

[987] It was just a little bit of dehydration.

[988] But what's interesting to go about what we were talking about there.

[989] You've just perfectly described that idea of given a clear cellular signal to the body.

[990] So polarised training, you're familiar with, you know, that 80, 20 that you do 80 % of your, you know, your work, your training in that aerobic realm where you can keep doing that.

[991] It's you're not going to overtrain there.

[992] You're going to avoid that exhaustion phase, you know, so cellular, indestructible rats, you know, you're not going to keel over and die from a lethal dose of stress and stimuli.

[993] Right.

[994] But then over here, you know, you would, that 20%, it was powerful, it was kickboxing.

[995] So there you're working technique, but you're fresh.

[996] So you're drilling motor patterns that are completely fresh and not fatigued because you're doing this 80 % on an elliptical trainer while watching a movie.

[997] So you're keeping the two completely separate.

[998] Yes.

[999] But considering the body in its entirety that when it comes together, you've created a more powerful version of yourself.

[1000] And I think it was interesting what you just said there about recovery between bouts as a well.

[1001] So when you start looking at strongman training, you know, the, some of the strongest guys in the world all understood the benefits of, of cardiorespiratory training.

[1002] You look at, again, Jeff Capes, two -time world's strongest man, was running fell races and marathons at 25 stone.

[1003] What's the fell race?

[1004] Fell race is, it's, yeah, it's quite specific to England.

[1005] So it's kind of trail running, but we call them fell running because you're kind of going through bogs and marshes and felled trees.

[1006] Not necessarily fell trees, but just kind of the terrain's a little bit different from a trial run.

[1007] So he was doing that.

[1008] When you look at Bill Casmeyer, again, well, strongest man, a power lifter, but understood the benefits of cardio respiratory training to improve his recovery between sets.

[1009] Brian Shaw as well, one of the sort of, you know, the newest sort of strong man and former basketball player.

[1010] You know, so he had that cardiorespiratory endurance, that base, that aerobic base.

[1011] And then he built this incredible strength on top of that aerobic.

[1012] aerobic foundation goes back again to whether, you know, they knew it or not.

[1013] They were almost creating an athlete like they were creating athletes back in the sort of Soviet Union era when they were taking athletes going, right, you're giving me a kid.

[1014] And I don't know if he's strong, quick, good at running, running fast or running far.

[1015] I don't know.

[1016] So we're going to build this aerobic neuromuscular base.

[1017] And when they show any sort of genetic potential to be strong, quick, whatever, we're going to hone in on that.

[1018] And that's only when we're going to get specific.

[1019] And you're almost doing that now, you know, and certainly Brian Shaw did it.

[1020] Again, you look, you look long through all of the best athletes in the world.

[1021] They've all followed this blueprint.

[1022] But it's only now that we're kind of dissecting that and saying, oh, okay, I'm making it a bit more purposeful.

[1023] Who's this gentleman?

[1024] There we go.

[1025] There's Brian Shaw.

[1026] He said, yeah, what's wrong with his legs?

[1027] They're all swollen.

[1028] But I mean, even now is, oh, I tell you what, Jamie, if it's possible, actually, I mean, Brian Shaw, he accidentally, you must have seen this clip.

[1029] set the indoor rowing record.

[1030] I think it was for a...

[1031] Look at the size of this motherfucker.

[1032] Oh my God.

[1033] And he rocks Converse All -Stars.

[1034] Look at that.

[1035] He set the...

[1036] There's a clip on YouTube.

[1037] Look at that.

[1038] Man, my man's wearing chucks.

[1039] He sets...

[1040] There's a clip on YouTube where he sets the rowing record, the indoor rowing record.

[1041] And it was just because...

[1042] Yeah, there we go.

[1043] He didn't know he was setting it?

[1044] No. So he's basically down there.

[1045] He's rowing.

[1046] And it sounds like someone started an engine.

[1047] And it's there to show.

[1048] Like this, here you go.

[1049] Let me hear this.

[1050] So this, they've just looked.

[1051] It rose with a mouthpiece.

[1052] Look, the whole thing, they have to hold it down in the end because it's coming out of the floor.

[1053] Jesus Christ, these guys are standing on it.

[1054] It sounds like just a, that's a jet engine, right?

[1055] Well, all that power from his legs, man. Well, no, and he's better, I mean, that technique as well.

[1056] I mean, I hope Brian doesn't mind me saying.

[1057] It's not necessarily, you know, Olympic rowing technique.

[1058] But he doesn't need it because he's just got silly power.

[1059] What is the correct technique?

[1060] So the 100, well, there's a catch phase and it's more, you're almost treating it more like a deadlift where you're using your larger leg muscles where...

[1061] Oh Jesus, look at him go.

[1062] There you go.

[1063] And they have to put weights on it.

[1064] Oh my god, this guy's a fucking savage.

[1065] This is so crazy to watch.

[1066] It's unbelievable.

[1067] The amount of force he can generate.

[1068] He looks like a very tall man too.

[1069] He's huge.

[1070] How big is this guy?

[1071] six eight six nine so that helps too right because the long stroke absolutely it's just pure power but anyway so they found out they during this session i believe what happened is they said well you know a rower shouldn't make that sort of noise he's basically two people put together he's six foot what 400 and what six foot eight 425 that's two big guys strapped together in one body he's almost 200 pounds above the ufc heavyweight limit Do you know how insane that is?

[1072] The UFC heavyweight limit is 265.

[1073] He's almost 200 pounds too heavy to fight in the heavyweight division of the UFC.

[1074] Motherfucker.

[1075] Basketball.

[1076] Basketball background.

[1077] And he still, look, he didn't know that he was going to set the world record for rowing.

[1078] So the rowing record, there you go, his one was 12 .8.

[1079] I believe it was 1308.

[1080] So he's just broke the rowing record.

[1081] But because he had that neuromuscular background that they said, hey, Brian, you're big and powerful.

[1082] or just, this is a rowing machine.

[1083] Right.

[1084] He went, oh, okay.

[1085] And it's like, oh, there you go.

[1086] There's a world record.

[1087] Wow.

[1088] So it's that base that I think so often, I've heard you speak about, and certainly Eddie as well, talking about break dancers, making great, you know, BJJ.

[1089] And again, wherever you know or not, they had that neuromuscular foundation.

[1090] They understood pro preception where their ligaments, tens, everything should work.

[1091] Right.

[1092] Whereas if you had someone with a similar work capacity or someone of the same age, everything was the same, but they didn't have that neuromuscular efficiency.

[1093] you'd say okay and again this is me so naively again I certainly don't claim to know anything about BJJ but you go okay this is an arm bar this is and they kind of go okay let me try and figure this out and you can see them like a Rubik's cube they're trying to piece it together but you get someone again like Brian and you go okay this is BJJ or something quite complex that requires you and he I'm not saying well he wouldn't even fight it's too he's too heavy they'd have to open up the super heavy division but he's doing a similar movement to deadlifts which is very common it is and when you he's used to that movement it is yeah it is but I suppose where you saw him you know that wasn't actually there was no extension of the back right he was bent over just ripping there's another one again even to use Brian as an example where he does I believe I can't remember the name of the ward now but he went up um and Thor as well another strong man did a I think it was a I might have clean and jerk there was a ward that was predominantly clean and jerk and there was this amazing cross fitter technique was beautiful disappearing under the bar, bang, over his head.

[1094] It was amazing to watch.

[1095] And I think it was Thor or Brian Shaw went in.

[1096] And just instead of a clean -in -jurt and Joe, honestly, he just basically upright rose the whole thing.

[1097] And they were like, well, that's not a clean -and -jerk, but you just set a record again.

[1098] So there's that element.

[1099] To use an example as well with that, oh, here we go, here we go.

[1100] Oh, my God, that's insane.

[1101] But wait, hopefully there's a cry.

[1102] That is insane.

[1103] Oh, no, okay, there's another strong way.

[1104] But there's another one of those where you see the crossfitter with this amazing, beautiful technique.

[1105] He's so far from his chest, it's crazy that he's doing it like that.

[1106] And what is that?

[1107] 225 pounds?

[1108] Is that what that is?

[1109] I don't actually know what that particular way is.

[1110] What in the fucking shit?

[1111] That is so crazy that he could do that.

[1112] Look at he's doing so many reps. Right, right.

[1113] That is insane.

[1114] But he doesn't have a pause.

[1115] No, but, okay, so that's meant to be a cleaning jerk.

[1116] I know.

[1117] So that's what I mean about that neuromuscular efficiency that he's gone, okay, here's a new sport.

[1118] Come get involved.

[1119] And he's gone, okay, I see the rules of your sport, but I'm going to do it my way.

[1120] And can.

[1121] But does it count?

[1122] Well, yeah, I suppose.

[1123] I mean, if that what is just put the weight above your head.

[1124] Like that guy did it normal that time right there.

[1125] That's a normal one.

[1126] But there's like, again, if you put in, you know, Thor versus CrossFit, then it will probably come up and you get to see an amazing crisp technique.

[1127] And then equally, Thor is basically doing what Brian was doing just there.

[1128] Oh, so here you go.

[1129] So this is they keep putting on weight until one of them.

[1130] I believe the competition here is you keep putting on.

[1131] Yeah, there you go.

[1132] CrossFit versus the mountain.

[1133] So amazing technique disappears under the bar.

[1134] You know, incredible.

[1135] And then I think, you know, Thor will eventually come in and give it a go and basically just upright rows.

[1136] Here we go.

[1137] So you saw that, you know, disappears under the bar.

[1138] Speed of movement.

[1139] Amazing.

[1140] And then Thor, come and have a go at this.

[1141] And this is what he, he produces.

[1142] So there's that neuro muscular efficiency.

[1143] Well, it's just mad strength.

[1144] It is.

[1145] It is.

[1146] I mean, you could do that too if you just had an empty bar.

[1147] You know what I mean?

[1148] Like that kind of person, the kind of person that can do that, when you think about him deadlifting a thousand pounds or any of these guys that can deadlift in insane numbers, just the whole machine can generate so much force.

[1149] Yeah.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] And that's it, though, it is, they're able to do that again because of that foundation.

[1152] Their body can generate that force.

[1153] And then you say, here's a new movement.

[1154] And you can see them look at, you know, like for that example, okay, so that's a clean and jerk.

[1155] Okay, I can't figure that.

[1156] I think I've found a way.

[1157] It also lends credence to the concept that deadlifts is like the mother of all exercises because it really does work all your muscle groups.

[1158] And if you can get really strong at deadlifts, I mean, it really does enhance almost any single athletic endeavor you participate in.

[1159] Yeah, yeah.

[1160] And I think, again, that's sort of been lost a little bit along the way, that, you know, getting the joints, ligaments, muscles, everything to work cohesively.

[1161] And when you do that for your training, you can pretty much apply to anything.

[1162] So I think that's why, I mean, again, I used to swim ages, ages ago, way back in the day, but I was never going to make sort of elite standard.

[1163] I'm, you know, five, nine on a good day, maybe.

[1164] I'm built like a hobbit.

[1165] So everyone else is just great.

[1166] They're long and graceful.

[1167] Yeah, so I ended up, again, almost accidentally, going into strength training.

[1168] I played water polo in the end to a fairly good level, so I was doing that, but again, I just got beaten up.

[1169] I was 16 playing in the seniors league and, you know, just big guys with beards, just beating me up.

[1170] You know, it's interesting what you were talking about earlier in terms of mental fortitude and your ability to adapt and your ability to overcome.

[1171] I wonder if we're ever going to figure out a way to measure that.

[1172] Like to measure mental endurance or measure mental capacity or mental stimulation.

[1173] You know, you can measure your VO2 max and you know what the body's capable of.

[1174] But I wonder if there's a way, like when someone does hear a great song and it kicks in, whether it's through fMRI or any other type of detection device where they can figure out a way, oh, this part of your brain is firing.

[1175] Let's concentrate on building up the activation of that part of that.

[1176] brain of the brain like like a muscle like think of that endurance or think of that motivation as like maybe even a mantra that you can call upon because you call upon it all the time and you can recreate that state yeah I mean I think on on that point certainly over in Britain at the moment so basically women for the first time can actually apply and be in the special forces so at the moment it's really really interesting because speaking to suddenly the Royal Marines they were saying we've got hundreds of years that if you handers 500 young fit men we can say they need to be this weight this tall and if you give us them we've got years and years of experience of putting them through this training system of mental and physical fortitude everything down in Limestone it's the training centre of the Royal Marines we go on this endurance course we go on a 30 mile yump with a backpack everything and by the end of 32 weeks that's what it takes to be a Royal Marine to get your green to get your Green Beret, after 32 weeks, we can take you from being completely, not sedentary, but unfit, to being a Royal Marine.

[1177] And that's one thing they pride themselves on.

[1178] But now what they're saying is obviously, you know, females can now apply to the special forces.

[1179] And what they find so interesting is, and I certainly do as well, is what does that look like for a female Royal Marine?

[1180] You know, what does that look like for a female?

[1181] And again, to go back, I mean, I wrote an article ages ago, run like a girl.

[1182] And I was saying, I want to run like a girl.

[1183] And I was saying, I want to run like like a girl.

[1184] You know, some of, some of my best training partners are female, and they, their perception to fatigue is unbelievable.

[1185] That's purely anecdotal, but also as well, when you look at the top tier of ultramarathon runners and swimming as well, Diana Naid first to go from Florida to Cuba to Florida, you know, incredible, like she was getting stung by Portuguese manawars and just unbelievable.

[1186] So it's purely anecdotal, but now they're saying, you know, why is it that certain female athletes have a greater tolerancy to pain?

[1187] And I think, and I think to your point, if we can start to quantify that, because there are biological differences.

[1188] If you take men, you know, high testosterone can have an impact on high hemoglobin, generate muscle force, all of these things.

[1189] But I think if we could quantify why it is that certain female athletes are dominating the top 10 % of ultramarathons and open water swimming, what is it that they're doing?

[1190] That would be amazing.

[1191] I think the ability to endure pain, and this is not my thought, honestly I should just say this has been theorized before has to do with their ability to endure the pain of childbirth child labor and childbirth I mean just the fact that they're forcing a baby out of their vagina I mean that is insane I mean you talk to you ever seen the machine they do they've taken these electrodes they put it on men and recreate the pain of childbirth and watch these men fucking fall apart like fucking turn it off no I mean, obviously I haven't given birth, but it's supposed to be unbelievably painful.

[1192] And women are biologically suited to this.

[1193] This is like, so I think their ability to endure that pain is just, it's probably just, there's an evolutionary advantage to having this more, higher capacity.

[1194] But I also think one of the things that I learned from teaching martial arts is that women, they learn technique better many times than men.

[1195] do because one they listen and two they don't try to muscle things so women have less of a problem with learning something from a person and this is also true about archery my friend john dudley who's an archery coach says his favorite students are always women because they listen better they don't have as much of an ego they don't have to pretend they already know something they don't want to just try it without they follow it to a tee better like generally obviously we're speaking in generalities but they also don't have the extra muscle that a man has so men when they're strong will try to just force things and muscle things where women will try to follow what's being described to them what's the proper technique and they do it properly all the time and then they develop this pattern of proper technique I noticed this with taekwondo and I think my friend John said he noticed this with archery I think this this this this benefits them in sports because like if you learn jujitsu really the best people to learn from are smaller men or women because they the smaller people they don't have the physical strength to pull it off on a big guy so what they have to rely on is correct technique but if you learn jujitsu from a big guy man big guy jujitsu is weird because they could just grab your wrist and you can't get go you can't let go and they can get away with things like okay you go wrist control and throw the leg up risk control okay risk control on who right try risk control on that big motherfucker that was rowing the world record you ain't getting shit man you're gonna go flying through the end that risk control ain't gonna work right you're gonna have to go against his strength you're gonna have to figure out a way to move around it you're not have to go you're not gonna go through it right that big guy if he was teaching jujitsu he'll just grab the neck and then you squeeze it's he's got the kind of horsepower that a man like you know a normal man can't imagine Yeah.

[1196] Do you think that's changing again, to bring it back to the U .S .C., I suppose, because now, I mean, with what Kormier's doing and, you know, John Jones coming back, you know, the lightweights are all moving up to heavyweight?

[1197] Do you think, you know, gone are the days of the huge dude who was just a physical phenom, and now the smaller technical dudes?

[1198] Is that, do you think?

[1199] Well, there's a thought with the 265 -pound weight class, and the consensus thought seems to be that somewhere around 240 pounds is the magic number.

[1200] That's what they think.

[1201] They think that 240 pounds is the amount of weight that you have where you're strong enough that you can knock out any man, but you have more endurance than a man that maybe weighs 265 or heavier and cuts down to 265.

[1202] Now, this has not been substantiated.

[1203] The problem is there hasn't been a really super powerful world championship athlete that weighed 265 pounds.

[1204] there's been Brock Lesner but Brock Lesner's enhanced you're dealing with a guy who tested positive for steroids he probably has had things and then this is a new world he's also 40 years old now so it's impossible to tell what he would have been like at 30 if he was clean and then you have guys like Francis and Gano who's 265 pounds massive knockout artist natural 265 pounds but doesn't have the wrestling base got exposed in his fight with Steppe Miochich.

[1205] If you can't knock you out, he's kind of doomed, and he tired out after the first round.

[1206] Okay.

[1207] So it's hard to say, because there's never been a 265 -pound version of Kane Velasquez.

[1208] But Kane Velasquez, in my humble opinion, when I look at all of the different heavyweights that I've personally seen fight, Kane stands out as the best.

[1209] The reason why Kane stands out as the best is because he has superhuman endurance.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] And his ability to put a pace on guys, you would see these guys just wilt.

[1212] Under the pressure of him, and I think with Kane, and this is where it gets really interesting, what did him in is probably what also brought him to the top, is his mental toughness, because his body started breaking down.

[1213] He started having all these back injuries.

[1214] He needed back surgery, multiple back surgeries, shoulder surgery, knee surgery.

[1215] Everything was getting fucked up.

[1216] And I think it was getting fucked up because he was working through pain and because he has the ability to tolerate pain that most people don't have.

[1217] it's just a fucking animal but that's also probably what led to him having this insane endurance is the same kind of mental toughness I'm sure there's some genetic advantages as well because they would talk about how he would take months off and come back in still fuck everybody up because he's just that good but that also could be attributed to the cardio base that he had from competing for many many many many years at a high level and being known for that insane endurance and perception to fatigue going back to what you said if you could quantify that you'd put cane up there with one of those people he has that in abundance yes yes yes and anyone else in the heavyweights then would you say well cormier for sure has tremendous uh fatigue uh ability to tolerate fatigue and for tremendous endurance and he he breaks people you know they call him the king of the grind and but on top of that they what they both have is tremendous wrestling technique the wrestling technique as well as the endurance everything plays a factor John Jones fits into that camp as well John Jones has tremendous wrestling technique as well striking technique massive physical skills but also mental toughness his mental toughness is unchallengeable you absolutely have to give it up to him he's had his arm fucked up by Vitor Belford completely hyper -extended refused to tap and then went up tapping Vitor with a Maricana I believe it was the next round and his toe against Chal Sonic Oh, his toe was fucked up, man. He didn't even notice it until I was interviewing him.

[1218] I was interviewing him.

[1219] He looked down.

[1220] He was like, oh, shit, look at my toe, and he started going to shock.

[1221] Oh, it was turned upside down.

[1222] It was completely turned upside down.

[1223] I mean, imagine that.

[1224] I mean, if he wound up going into the next round, if he didn't stop Chale Sondon, and his toe was that fucked up, and he wound up losing to Chale Sondon because his toe was bad, that's insane.

[1225] He also went through that fight with Alexander Gussifson, where he wasn't really training very hard, for that fight and Gustafson won the first couple rounds and then John Jones won the last two to take it away and I watched that back obviously with all the promotion at the moment and I think it was Winkle John Jackson when he starts shouting heart heart you know shouts out and that was the that was the deciding I mean that's spinning elbow that was the deciding factor that you come out and you produce that yeah also in John Jones's favor I believe he has two fucking super athlete brothers and they used to apparently beat the shit out of each other all the time and his brother there's bigger than him.

[1226] I think that is a factor because I think that there's mental toughness that comes from being around that kind of combat in the household all the time.

[1227] Yeah.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] I think it's a bunch of different, but it's, it's, I don't know, I think you can teach that.

[1230] I don't believe that mental toughness is something you either have or you don't have.

[1231] I don't believe that.

[1232] I think you can teach it, but you got to want it and you got to be willing to learn.

[1233] You've got to be able to bring yourself to a state of mind where you're unbreakable.

[1234] I think it's possible.

[1235] I really do.

[1236] And some people just have that.

[1237] That is a, I mean, and I think they've developed it over a long period of time.

[1238] And once they finally got to, whether it's wrestling or jiu -jitsu or MMA, they already had it.

[1239] And then they accentuated it and added on to it and then it got stronger.

[1240] And then they become known for it.

[1241] Like, that guy is just an animal.

[1242] He's just mentally strong.

[1243] But I think that mental strength comes from many life experiences and probably the guidance of their parents or some other role model in their life that also showed them incredible endurance and incredible discipline and this mental fortitude.

[1244] I think you can teach it, though.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] And I think, you know, I don't believe that it's something that's just either have or you don't have.

[1247] I think you either have it or you don't have it, but you can get it.

[1248] That's what I think.

[1249] And, you know, I'm a huge fan of Dan Hardy.

[1250] We've been chatting since the swim.

[1251] And I always go back to that armbar with George St. Pierre.

[1252] And I was like, everybody would have tapped.

[1253] Oh, yeah.

[1254] And I couldn't get my head.

[1255] And I can't wait to catch up with Dan about that and sort of exchange notes on this idea of mental fortitude.

[1256] Because how he survived that, I mean, it was, it was horrendous.

[1257] I was cringing watching.

[1258] Well, Dan's a savage.

[1259] I mean, he's an intelligent savage.

[1260] And, you know, he's not like a thug or a brutish guy.

[1261] He's a very well -read, intelligent, thoughtful guy.

[1262] But he's also a guy that knows how to dig deep, you know.

[1263] And, you know, when he fought George St. Pierre, that was his big shot.

[1264] You know, I mean, his big shot was against a guy who was at the time was in his prime and was the greatest welterweight, arguably, of all time.

[1265] I mean, the argument is, it's between him, Matt Hughes, and I believe now Tyron Woodley is in that camp as well.

[1266] It's like the greatest welterweight's ever.

[1267] But what you get out of Dan Hardy is a guy who's thought things through.

[1268] I mean, it really comes through in his commentary.

[1269] He's a very, very intelligent guy.

[1270] Would you say he's the same sort of cut from the same cloth as Cormié then?

[1271] Because I know Brendan spoke about this recently saying he's the most intelligent fighter on the UFC roster at the moment.

[1272] Cormier?

[1273] Yeah.

[1274] In his approach?

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] In his approach and how he will break.

[1277] people but again you know when you watch you know UFC embedding and stuff you like you can't help but love Kormier he's such a nice guy but and this goes back to what i suppose you said about the swim you know when it was like oh you're you're very smiling stuff but i see that in kormia he's the nicest guy but i would never get in the octagon with him you're not fooling anyone no he's a sweetheart until you're locked in a cage with them he's going to fuck you up the difference between him and uh dan hardy though is that he's a world -class wrestler I mean, he was a two -time Olympic team member and just one of the best wrestlers to ever compete in M .M .A. And you really see that in a lot of his fights, like the Derek Lewis fight.

[1278] Derek had no chance, like no chance.

[1279] You know, and Derek just knocked out Alexander Volkov, who in a lot of people's eyes, including mine, was one of the dark horses in the heavyweight division.

[1280] But Derek just did not belong in there with Kormier, who was the light heavyweight champion.

[1281] I mean, he carries a lot of fat on him.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] He's, I mean, and I think if, if he wanted to, if Daniel Cormier really dedicated himself, he could drop down to 185 pounds.

[1284] I really believe that.

[1285] But he's just, you know, he's, why would he's a fucking heavyweight champion?

[1286] That's the difference between him and, there's many differences between him and Dan.

[1287] The success ratio is very different.

[1288] You know, Cormier's been extremely successful.

[1289] The only guy he's lost to is John Jones.

[1290] You know, so, but.

[1291] But I find that with rest, and this is on a complete tangent here, But when you talk about that mind -body connection, like so often they're seen as separate, you're either an intellect or you're just a physical phenom, like it's rare that you see the two.

[1292] But when, again, ancient Greek philosophy, you look at Plato, like Plato was an accomplished celebrated wrestler.

[1293] Yes.

[1294] I think he said something along the lines of, you know, you should wrestle to find the answers to that philosophers seek.

[1295] It was something like that.

[1296] He was such an advocate of it.

[1297] And I think, and again, this is coming from, you know, sort of my limited background, because obviously in Britain we don't have wrestling like over here and stuff but there's something about wrestling it seems or i suppose my question to you is like that it just teaches that like mental fortitude you know yeah physically yeah and neuromuscular efficiency and stuff but it seems to have just produced this breed of humans that you know did you think is there's something about being face down in a mat as somebody's just trying to contort your limbs you know so that to go back to stress and stimuli, you know, it's also building up that progressive overlap in your own head.

[1298] Yes.

[1299] And what you just said there about experiences that quite often now, when I go swimming, I'm like, it's not the courier veckin.

[1300] I'm not wearing a jellyfish tentacle on my face.

[1301] You know, it's not that bad.

[1302] Right.

[1303] And I think, well, do you ask my question is, do you think it's the same with wrestling that you're like, I've been in a worse position than this?

[1304] I think for sure.

[1305] I think there's the, the strength.

[1306] that they have, the intellectual strength, and when I say intellectual strength, they're actually solving puzzles, whether people understand it or not.

[1307] You look at wrestling, you think it's always brute force and strength and endurance, but they're solving puzzles, right?

[1308] They're setting traps, they're trying to set up techniques, and they're doing this under heavy workload, right?

[1309] They're exhausted, their hearts pounding, and they're resisting 100 % with another person who's resisting 100%.

[1310] When you see guys tie up and they're throwing each other around, and they're fucking digging their toes into the mat and they're yanking and wrenching.

[1311] That has a tremendous amount of force that they have to keep up for minutes and minutes at a time.

[1312] And I think a lot of that has to do with your ability to maintain intensity.

[1313] And a lot of that has to do with your ability to tolerate being exhausted and tolerate fatigue and to force yourself into a highly aggressive and efficient mindset and to be able to maintain proper technique under fatigue.

[1314] That's a good point.

[1315] technique and intelligence, I believe.

[1316] Again, with the Royal Marines, we can be, when training with them, I find that it's crazy how you'll have the cognitive functioning of a five -year -old.

[1317] You know, you are complete.

[1318] Right, right, right.

[1319] You're in a 30 -mile yon with 50KG on your backpack and somebody asks you some really complex question and you're just like, I don't know.

[1320] Right.

[1321] And I think, certainly going back to the swim, there's times where I said to the team, I was like, please, like, when I'm six hours into a swim through the night, I need just really clear instructions.

[1322] Just like Ross swim this way, Ross swim that direction.

[1323] And again, purely anecdotal for the moment.

[1324] But, you know, I love Cowboy Seroni.

[1325] And there's times when he's just in his corner.

[1326] And he's just having a full on corner.

[1327] He's so relaxed.

[1328] You know, and it's just like that.

[1329] You could see somebody probably fatigued and they're panicking.

[1330] And he's just sitting on the stool.

[1331] He's got great endurance too.

[1332] That helps.

[1333] That certainly helps.

[1334] His ability to recover.

[1335] Right.

[1336] Between rounds.

[1337] Do you see his fight this weekend?

[1338] I've got to catch up on it With Perry, sensational.

[1339] Really?

[1340] The best he's ever looked.

[1341] But he was on the bottom when Perry, when...

[1342] Yeah, I mean, Perry took him down, but he said to me, he goes, he started to take me down.

[1343] I was like, shit, I'm going to let him.

[1344] He said, I'll let him take me down.

[1345] And then he reversed him immediately and got him in an arm bar and then broke his arm.

[1346] He snapped his forearm in half.

[1347] He sent me the x -rays.

[1348] Yeah, yeah, I'll show you to me. Oh, no. I don't think anybody's seen this.

[1349] Sorry, Donald.

[1350] This is an exclusive.

[1351] I'm sending this.

[1352] If I'm not supposed to send this, I got to send this shit.

[1353] Yeah, we've been going back and forth.

[1354] And, you know, for him, I think it was a matter of rekindling his excitement.

[1355] Here it is.

[1356] Yeah, it was a pretty emotional.

[1357] Oh.

[1358] Oh, that hurts right.

[1359] Can you see that?

[1360] You want me to send it to you?

[1361] Here, I'll send it to you, Jamie.

[1362] Also, I think with Donald, when it comes, we were talking about stimulation and motivation, he has a son now.

[1363] He has a little baby son, and he brought his son into the octagon with him and he's celebrating with his son.

[1364] He just seemed different to me He seemed different in his poise Completely in control The guy who's fighting Mike Perry is fucking dangerous He's fucking dangerous He hits really hard He's very aggressive And Donald just handled him And Perry took him down I think he didn't like what was going on Stand -up wise He just snapped that shit But you mentioned there as well With Serroney talking about his son And it was such an emotional post That he posted on Instagram And I loved it And going back to what you said about finding something that that alters your biochemistry you know and now that he's fighting for something and you know he's got his kid do you think that's that's what we were talking about music before we were talking about getting his mindset maybe you use caffeine like whatever it is but something yeah do you think is now different in seroni because you know it's love yeah yeah the love of his children he has something that I mean he what he said was um I never knew what I was fighting for.

[1365] He said, now I have something to fight for.

[1366] I think he was fighting for excitement before, for thrills, because he's a thrill seat.

[1367] He's a wild motherfucker.

[1368] He likes jet skiing and jumping snowmobiles off the side of mountains, and he's an animal.

[1369] A week before a fight, but yeah, he doesn't give a fuck.

[1370] He doesn't know.

[1371] But this is a different thing.

[1372] What he's doing in this fight in particular, I think, this is a different thing because he's fighting for his son.

[1373] I mean, he's got this family now, and it means.

[1374] the world to him and he looks over at this guy like this guy's trying to take food from his family and he just was an efficient assassin.

[1375] It was just, it was beautiful to watch.

[1376] It was like, I think the best performance of his career.

[1377] And, you know, maybe Mike Perry is not as good as Darren Till or is Hafeld Los Angeles or some of the other people that he's fought in the past, but he's fucking dangerous and he's a legit welterweight where Donald's not.

[1378] Donald could fight it 155 pounds.

[1379] That's one of the things Donald said after the fight.

[1380] He said, Kabib, he goes, I'm back.

[1381] I'm coming for you.

[1382] So he wants to drop down to 155 and fight Khabib.

[1383] Do you think he might now?

[1384] Something's different, do you think?

[1385] Do you think he can make a title one?

[1386] Wilson, man, Khabib is the motherfucker of all motherfuckers.

[1387] Agreed.

[1388] You know, I mean, I don't know who's going to beat that dude, but that dude, Mali walked.

[1389] Ascran?

[1390] Maybe.

[1391] But Ascran is a different weight class.

[1392] See, Ascran's 70 and Kabeb's 55.

[1393] If Kabeb and Ascran agreed to a catchweight fight, that is absolutely a possibility, that absolutely a possibility that Ascreen could best him.

[1394] Because if someone's going to beat Kabib, it's going to be someone who's a superior wrestler.

[1395] And Ascran is a motherfucker of a wrestler.

[1396] But is he better than Kabib?

[1397] We really don't know, and we will not know until they fight.

[1398] But I do have to say that Kabib, in the training camp at AKA, this is coming straight from Kormier and a bunch of other people that train with him, say that he trains with Olympic caliber wrestlers and fucks them up.

[1399] That's how good Khabib is.

[1400] Kabeeb is he's he's so god -dammed good on the ground when he gets a hold of guys they look perplexed and I always bring up the Edson Barbosa fight because a moment in the Barbosa fight in the first round where he'd that thousand -yard stare where Kabib had taken him down he was mauling him and he looked over in the distance like how the fuck am I going to get through three rounds of this shit yeah yeah and that's the thing with Barbosa I mean Terrietta that kick he just won you yeah exactly yeah so to see that it was I mean, it felt like if I was to do mixed martial arts or jihis, I know you spoke about it before.

[1401] You said if somebody doesn't know what they're doing, like me, it's like drowning.

[1402] Yes.

[1403] And that's exactly how I would, you know, feel, I think.

[1404] It was just humbling.

[1405] But it's something that you could learn.

[1406] See, the thing, what you've done in my eyes, what you've done is so difficult.

[1407] I think you could do anything.

[1408] I really do.

[1409] I think what you did by forcing you.

[1410] yourself to do that shit for six hours a day, take a break, six hours again, to do 12 hours of swimming every day for five fucking months, that kind of mental fortitude, if someone just taught you, I mean, obviously you're very physically strong and fit, if someone just taught you technique and taught you how to grapple and taught you kickboxing, you would be a motherfucker at it because your mind is so strong like that that you know there's a different mindset to have that same kind of mind strength with the adversity of another human being trying to kill you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah how well do people deal with other people's like there's something about a person breathing down your neck that's trying to choke you that's very disconcerting but if you can get past that and I think you could you would be a motherfucker at anything you did and that's actually the thing I mean even at the moment now I'm used to just training for 12 hours a day.

[1411] So right now, I'm still sort of in by phasic sleep.

[1412] So I've only been on land really a week.

[1413] That's crazy.

[1414] Were you sleeping in a boat this whole time?

[1415] Six hours on.

[1416] What does it like to have the ground not move?

[1417] Just standing.

[1418] Boom.

[1419] Honestly, when I got on, I was, I mean, I was doing media interviews and everything was swaying.

[1420] You know, it's like, this is, but even that night, my first night, the bed, it sounds so weird but the bed was just a bit too stable it was a bit too comfy wow i woke up in the middle of the night i was with my girlfriend and i'm looking for my goggles you know thinking the tide's about to change about to jump back in yeah and she was just like go back to bed and and like honestly i say it now like sort of joking but there was a real element of you know just that you'd been conditioned and all i really cared about as soon as i woke up i wanted to know what the tides were doing you know what's where's it running how when does it start when's it how how how Have we got good tide or bad tide?

[1421] Is it spring tides or neat tides?

[1422] So spring tides being stronger, neat tides, and that was my currency.

[1423] That's all I cared about.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] And it was really strange that you, to try now and integrate back into society, you know, even just walking, you know, through L .A., the cars, everything moves very fast now.

[1426] You know, and you kind of come back and it's a bit of a shock.

[1427] It's a real shock.

[1428] You must feel like you're in an alternate universe or something.

[1429] Like to go through five months of one reality and then to come out of, on the other end.

[1430] It does.

[1431] So I almost, but then even, it's sort of intrinsically or something, my body's used to working hard for 12 hours a day and just getting battered by waves.

[1432] So at the moment, you know, I'm sort of sitting here and, you know, I've been doing media all week and it's been amazing.

[1433] But there's an element of me just kind of going, I need to use this work capacity.

[1434] And so I am sort of training at the moment.

[1435] The first session I did, I was in there for like six hours.

[1436] And I was, and they were like, the gym shut in, Ross.

[1437] And I was just like, oh, okay.

[1438] You probably can't get tired.

[1439] That's crazy.

[1440] There is that element.

[1441] One of the things that we all talked about after sober October was that none of us had ever done anything like this before, but we're worried now that we're going to go back to our sedentary ways and they're going to lose all this work that we put in.

[1442] Because at the end of the month, Ari, who had never worked out before, ran 15 miles, rode five kilometers, and then got on the bike for a while.

[1443] I forget what he did on the bike.

[1444] But I think he did at least a mile on the bike.

[1445] And this was a four -plus hour workout.

[1446] But he had never done anything before.

[1447] I mean, he did Jiu -Jitsu.

[1448] I bought him some Jiu -Jitsu lessons.

[1449] I bought him a year at 10th Planet Jiu -Jitsu, like 10 years ago.

[1450] He went for a while and then he hurt his knee and stopped going.

[1451] But he was 10 years of nothing.

[1452] And he's fucking 40 -something years old.

[1453] And he forced himself through mental fortitude.

[1454] So he's shifted.

[1455] I mean, we're so, like, the human body I found is so lazy.

[1456] like we love homeostasis at habitual level what we're used to doing you know that status quo and then so when you do shift that and it's all relative because you know it can be you know swimming for 12 hours a day and stuff but it's relative and I think when you do shift that it is hard and I think you have to be so conscious of that so even now are like for instance my legs at the moment you know shrunk but not just my legs I mean I essentially skip leg day you know for 157 days but your arms must be jacked it's kind of it so we went into the gym the other day and because of like ligaments tendons but not only just generating force like a bench press but if you imagine like 40 knots of wind you know wind over tide that we were talking my shoulders are used to being contorted in ways that they shouldn't be so your shoulders are resisting the wind as it's coming towards me so you're pushing with your shoulders yeah and the amount of times I would take stroke and then a win i mean there's times when the waves hit me so hard i thought i've just hit a boat you know i hit something and that would be poor so it was that resistance as well so um on the bench press it was just kind of like took you know 160 you know i'm not sort of saying it's necessary just as a sort of sports science experiment i kind of unlifted and then just took 160 kilos just for a ride and it just kind of felt okay what's 160 kilos sort of a Um, but then equally my legs, you know, in the score, I'm barely lifting my own body weight.

[1457] 350, yeah, for, you know, eight reps. So it's that, that sort of strength.

[1458] And so you had lifted weights in five months and yet you're like, upper body, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, and it's not even that though, like, you know, my legs, it's the, it's my feet as well.

[1459] So right now, genuinely, and a lot of people afterwards are like, what are you going to do next?

[1460] you know what's the next invention i said i've got to learn to walk again and everyone laughed and i was like no no no like the arches in my foot have collapsed those ligaments and tendons so it's i mean i think a lot of collapse just from not standing yeah i mean yeah you you got to think 12 hours in the water every day but even when i was on the boat i was probably eating or sleeping whoa i didn't even think about that so your load capacity like your ability to like hold your body weight up has diminished.

[1461] Yeah, I almost entered into this small group of people like astronauts where you've been in a non -weight -bearing environment for so long.

[1462] So I joke and when we watched that video back and I was saying, oh, you know, try not to fall over there.

[1463] genuinely I was thinking, please don't just fall over with all the people.

[1464] Wow.

[1465] Wow.

[1466] You know the thing that intrigues me is you're a young guy.

[1467] You're not, a lot of these endurance guys are old, angry people.

[1468] They get older and they develop this ability to just fucking fuck the world and push through things.

[1469] How old are you?

[1470] Yeah, 33.

[1471] Yeah, that's very young to do what you did, isn't it?

[1472] Yeah, and I think you're right, actually, and that would be a really sort of good point to make there.

[1473] I always think when people say, I'm too old now to train and stuff, I'm like, absolutely not.

[1474] Yes, granted, when you're younger, elasticity in your ligaments, yeah, higher testosterone, muscle mass, ability to, you know, increase muscle muscle stuff.

[1475] Absolutely.

[1476] But when you're older and to your point there, Joe, when you look at these, you know, back in England, fell running, which we're talking about, you get these guys who just look like they live in the mountains, you know, weathered faces, you know, their calves are just like this, just thick calves.

[1477] And they have that capillary density, that like mitochondrial efficiency, movement efficiency.

[1478] So their cardio respiratory endurance has just been built up.

[1479] from years and years and and these sorts of people as well they're they almost they love the mountains and running so much that they don't care that they're overtraining or like they need a rest there we go there we go honestly Jesus Christ so when I'm fell runner I am getting lapped you know by fell runner Josh Nela there you go those are all fell runners that's those guys yeah run into a gay bathhouse that's all them why they're going to short shorts So this is it.

[1480] Put some clothes on, boys.

[1481] So you get, they're the phone running shorts.

[1482] Okay.

[1483] You have to wear those shorts?

[1484] They're not compulsory.

[1485] Seems like it is.

[1486] And you got numbers next to your dick.

[1487] That's weird too.

[1488] I would have brought you a pair if I don't know.

[1489] I wouldn't wear them.

[1490] Come on, bro.

[1491] Those are, those are shorts that a girl would wear in a porn movie.

[1492] They're in a legitimate uniform.

[1493] Oh, okay.

[1494] But actually, to this point, I mean, if you put, if it's possible, James, there's the, um, it's called the Bob Graham.

[1495] So there's a famous fell race, going back to sort of the Barclam race, there's a famous fell race back in England called the Bob Graham.

[1496] And, you know, legend has it.

[1497] There was a guy Bob Graham, and he sort of said, you know, I think I can do 44 peaks in the late district in under 24 hours.

[1498] And they said, no, no, no, that's not possible.

[1499] It's not possible.

[1500] He said, yeah.

[1501] So it was like a bet in a pub, you know, and they were like, yeah, and sure enough, that's what he did.

[1502] And so there's this race now called the Bob Graham, and it's amazing in that it's steeped in history in heritage.

[1503] There's a, uh, a hall in Kessik, which is a small town.

[1504] It's called Mute Hall.

[1505] And if you were standing there, Joan, you're in your running gear with those short time.

[1506] But you were running there with your running gear and you had your hand on Mute Hall and you were looking at your watch like that.

[1507] Runners would walk past you and just be like, oh, he's about to do his Bob Graham.

[1508] You know, they'd come over.

[1509] There's that real solidarity that, you know, like, good luck, good luck.

[1510] And then you have to do it in 24 hours.

[1511] And Billy Bland, who was the one who, who's set the record, which has only just been beaten by Killian Jornet, who recently ran up Everest as well.

[1512] But I think he...

[1513] She's fucking savages.

[1514] So, this, and what I love about this is, oh, there you go, is that, yeah, Killian.

[1515] Yeah, there you go, Killian Jornet.

[1516] So the guy behind in the blue set the record.

[1517] Look what it says there.

[1518] I needed to suffer, says Killian Jornett after breaking the record that has stood for 36 years.

[1519] 36 years.

[1520] Wow, I needed to suffer.

[1521] But these guys, and it goes back to, you know, too often it's sports science, sports nutrition, let's look and look at your gate analysis, running biomechanics, what footwear are you using?

[1522] Minimalish shoes or not, and everything.

[1523] Whereas with this, with fell running, it took 36 years for somebody to get close to that record.

[1524] So it's like, what were they doing so far back?

[1525] Granted, you need to know the terrain.

[1526] Like you could, on this descent, on this picture, for instance, you could be running down there, struggling down the rocks and you might not know that just, you know, 50 meters to your right, there's a perfect sheep trail.

[1527] Oh, okay.

[1528] And that's kind of the concept of fell running.

[1529] So it's just a matter of getting up and above and over it, no matter what path you take?

[1530] Yeah, yeah, but certainly efficient.

[1531] If you know what's something.

[1532] And so that guy in the front there is pacing him, basically, because it's very easy to get lost on the bells.

[1533] There's no specific path that you have to take?

[1534] You just have to get over it?

[1535] There's certain points that you have to get to.

[1536] But then in terms of the terrain and the path to, no, not really.

[1537] So it's just point to point to point to point.

[1538] Yeah.

[1539] How do they mark those?

[1540] Do they have like cones or something?

[1541] I mean this, yeah, we'll be long established that to do the Bob Graham, you need to do that point, that point, that point.

[1542] And then you come back to Moot Hall, you know, within hopefully 24 hours and if you do it, then you have your Bob.

[1543] Put that back, please.

[1544] You have your Bob Graham.

[1545] These guys look like a guy that would do that, whereas you don't.

[1546] Right.

[1547] This is my point about you in endurance, like how your physique, you don't see a guy with your physique doing this kind of stuff.

[1548] Yes.

[1549] Do you think that you could do this kind of?

[1550] of stuff running i mean no i and i always say i'm not self -deprecating how much do you weigh i think at the moment about 100 kilos which is a lot considering 220 yes that's about the 220 pounds yeah yeah so i yeah the bob graham is something completely different and that goes back to what we were talking about about power to weight ratio right in a weight bearing sport so with something like running because you're so heavy yeah even though you have a lot of power yeah do you think it would be possible if you put if you added more power to obviously not now because you're getting off of five months on a boat, but if you built your legs and your feet back up, do you think you could do this?

[1551] Yeah, I'm just possibly under, but no way near.

[1552] I mean, Killian Jornet, what he's, he's amazing.

[1553] I mean, with Killian, he, I believe, don't cry about it, he's almost sort of semi -nomadic.

[1554] He grew up in the hills.

[1555] Semi -nomadic.

[1556] Yeah, no, so for him, he would run a marathon to go and get his, you know, carton of milk in the morning.

[1557] Oh, Jesus.

[1558] You know, so when you are lining up on a start line, I mean, you know, if you're, racing against killing you look over and you've got a guy like that fuck yeah you just like you just get like i'm out i'm out right you can't beat that guy but he's but he is built for that that's my like so you but you don't think that guy's built for swimming like if that guy had to do what you did swimming wise he would be at a disadvantage i over a certain difference going back to the bell right that somebody like that and and in my experience when i've raced or swung with you know guys who are doing you know 10 kilometers they they will be quicker that than me, over 10 kilometers.

[1559] But then it gets to a point when we're like, you know, 30 kilometers in where their biomechanics just because of muscular endurance, that starts to break down.

[1560] Maybe as well, and this is so often overlooked, actually, but you've got to train your digestive system.

[1561] So again, this is mainly anecdotal, but, you know, in strength -based sports, you know, a lot of guys won't think anything about putting away 15 ,000 calories a day, which is what I was doing.

[1562] So...

[1563] Are we doing that while you're swimming?

[1564] yeah 15 ,000 yeah 15 ,000 calories what was it in a lot of it you were sitting down once you got inside the boat yeah and what were you eating just it was so intuitive so it was kind of strange because the diet was calorie dense so you have to make up to all your calorie requirements the day also looking at nutrient dense because you've got to care for your immune system but equally palatibility so when my tongue was falling apart you know I needed to look at that and even sea sickness which not really spoke about as well which is kind of like you need something that hits those four points and that's 15 ,000 calories a day.

[1565] So for me, that was quite often just like porridge oats, you know, mixed with honey, mixed with almond butter, and then even, like, oh, here we go.

[1566] Yeah, so.

[1567] Is this you eating?

[1568] What's that?

[1569] Yeah.

[1570] Oh, there might be one there somewhere, yeah.

[1571] What is that in that bowl?

[1572] Beans, mostly?

[1573] Yeah, and this is what I mean, it just got to the point where it was like, what can you just eat?

[1574] Like, what is going to, so I was just eating out of the pan.

[1575] Just trying to shove it in your face.

[1576] Yeah.

[1577] So, like, what would you eat?

[1578] Like, what were the full?

[1579] Oh, this, this is probably quite a good one, yeah, that will play.

[1580] So, yeah, there you go.

[1581] Like, in terms of, so essentially as a nutritional sort of, in theory, the framework, you get, what was that mask?

[1582] Oh, so that was to stop the jellyfish.

[1583] Oh, Jesus.

[1584] No, but it doesn't matter.

[1585] Like, even the mask, because the giant jellyfish of Scotland, and there'll be a picture on there somewhere.

[1586] They're kind of like six feet long.

[1587] So when you're swimming at night and you can't see them, the tentacles will just kind of, they'll get you.

[1588] And so I got like they go in your mouth and your ear.

[1589] I got one in my ear.

[1590] I got like wet willied by a jellyfish.

[1591] It just kind of got me there.

[1592] So it's like that, yeah, trying to find and adapt the same way with the mass, but nutritionally as well.

[1593] But also looking at as a framework, you're having your protein, which is pretty stable, you know, 1 .7 grams per cage of your body weight per day.

[1594] You know, that kind of stays the same.

[1595] So then for the rest of the 15 ,000 calories, you basically need to make it up with your two energy -yielding macro -nutrients.

[1596] so carbs and fats.

[1597] And so for me, it was very carb dependent because when you are swimming through a giant whirlpool, you can't say, can I have some fats, which the body has to go, a certain process, it's going to take longer?

[1598] No, you just need fast -acting carbohydrates.

[1599] But then equally, looking at MCTs, so median chain triglycerides as well, which are a fat, so they have the calorie density of a fat, but they're treated more like a carbohydrate rather than long -chain triglycerides.

[1600] So there was a certain amount of science, A lot of people would say, you know, 15 ,000 calories, that mean pizza and everything?

[1601] It was like, well, you know, yes, to an extent, but then place too much emphasis on that and you're not caring for your immune system as well.

[1602] Right.

[1603] To get 15 ,000 calories, I think, yeah, I always point out that it's using things like MCTs, which you'll find in coconut oil, and certainly, again, not to get too much on the science, but capric and caprylic acid, which are converted to ATP, adenosine triphosate, it's a molecular energy of the muscles.

[1604] when you understand how to use MCTs like that, it can be quite easy to make up 15 ,000 calories.

[1605] But you try and make up 15 ,000 calories of vegetables and fruit, right?

[1606] You're fucked.

[1607] Exactly.

[1608] Especially you like have like protein and then fruit and it requires a different digestive enzyme.

[1609] And then you're going to tell me to go and swim through a giant whirlpool and roll on my stomach for 12 hours a day.

[1610] It's just like with seasickness, it's not going to happen.

[1611] Yeah, you just, you must need a lot of like really dense foods.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] And that's the thing that it goes back to, again, this bell curve that I've spoke about, but, you know, quite often a lot of endurance athletes that I've trained with who are amazing.

[1614] They're unbelievable.

[1615] They're sub three -hour marathon runs.

[1616] They're incredible.

[1617] You know, they're the guys that will go and run the Bob Graham.

[1618] But quite often they say, but Ross can just eat.

[1619] And it's just like, yeah, that's often overlooked.

[1620] You know, that my body, you know, I didn't have a sick day throughout the whole swim.

[1621] That's crazy.

[1622] Was that attribute.

[1623] And I started at 19.

[1624] 2 kilos, you know, when you look at the pictures from the start to the finish, I just look like, just like hairier, yeah, but just also just bulk, because you are asking your body to swim around Great Britain.

[1625] So it's not just the fact that you are, you don't want to be in a calorie deficit.

[1626] Can you imagine how much micro trauma the body's going to go through?

[1627] So you're essentially just trying to nurse the body saying, look, I know this is horrible, I know it's cold.

[1628] I know I'm asking you to swim for 12 hours a day.

[1629] I know there's going to be jellyfish, toxins.

[1630] I mean, I've stung like, you know, 20 times in one night in a single tide, you know.

[1631] So it got to the point where I talked about my face sort of changing shape.

[1632] But equally, the toxins in your body, your heart would start beating faster.

[1633] And, you know, so there was just this idea that just eat just to look after the body.

[1634] So when it comes to nutrition and were you taking any supplements?

[1635] Were you taking vitamins?

[1636] And that goes to, like I said, that calorie density, but also to make sure that you're making the immune system.

[1637] Yeah, yeah.

[1638] What are you taking?

[1639] Everything from super green shakes, you know, to multivitamins, to protein shakes, just to make sure that you were supplementing that calorie density.

[1640] I think so often overlooked the higher turnover of, like, phytochemicals, enzymes, micronutrients.

[1641] What about fish oil, anything along those lines?

[1642] Yeah, omega -3s, yeah.

[1643] And that's what, just anything that you were thinking, well, this is even to glutamine, to a higher turnover of amino acids.

[1644] So after, for instance, after training as well, you can have all the protein in the world.

[1645] But if it has a low biological value, so, again, I'm going to try and keep it's quite sure.

[1646] But if you look at, you know, immediately after a workout, you know, your body's basically saying, look, we need protein to repair and regrow.

[1647] Protein synthesis.

[1648] And your muscles are saying, please.

[1649] But if you don't have a high concentration of lucine specifically, so.

[1650] branch chain amino acids, lucine within that is what will trigger to your motor receptors to basically repair and regrow.

[1651] So quite often you can have all the protein in the world, but if it's have a low biological value, if it's not very good quality protein, your body's not going to assimilate it.

[1652] So it's not about the protein that you eat.

[1653] It's about the protein you assimilate.

[1654] Right.

[1655] So you would take branched chain amino acids post workout?

[1656] Yeah, yeah.

[1657] And specifically, like I said, leucine just to make sure that I was kickstarting that whole recovery process because as soon as you got out of the water after six hours, there's always the temptation, just I want to pass out, I want to just go to bed, I want to, you know, and it's just like, no, you've got that six hours to think before you're back in.

[1658] Now, what about your protein?

[1659] What are you getting it mostly from?

[1660] A lot of weight protein, just because of efficiency.

[1661] And also as well, you've got to think in terms of the boat and stocking food, like, perishable, you know, food.

[1662] So, you know, as much as I love my barbecue ribs and everything like that, that wasn't going to happen on this small gas.

[1663] galley that we had on the boat right so um did you get any fresh food eggs anything along those lines we did yeah when we could stop in a harbor you know the team would go out i'd never touch land but they could go and quickly provision from land and bring it back but ultimately yeah it was it was trying to find a way that was was sustainable as possible but within the parameters that we had you know and that that was what was tricky what about your joints i would imagine repetitive stress of swimming would wreck havoc on your shoulders.

[1664] Yeah, and that's why this goes back to, I suppose this goes back and I was trying to rich roll about this actually, where once you developed that sort of horsepower program, that work capacity that I was talking about before from when I ran a marathon pulling a car, it was, this is such a strange story, but I then, again, to raise money for the teenage cancer trust, I climbed a rope, I think it was a 10 metre rope.

[1665] but I repeatedly climbed it until I climbed the height of Everest.

[1666] So it was 8 ,848 meters.

[1667] And it was that that actually taught me that movement efficiency plays such an important role in terms of endurance.

[1668] Because you could have the best muscular endurance of the world, cardio -spiritual endurance.

[1669] But if you can imagine with a rope climb, if you're solely relying on your muscles, your arms, your bicep tendon is just, you know, and then you can be the fittest guy in the world.

[1670] But within that kinetic chain, something's going to give, like the weakest part.

[1671] So you're right, from that, I had the work capacity from the marathon, then from the rope climb, I certainly understood movement efficiency.

[1672] And so sort of transferring those skills over to swimming, I knew that you couldn't swim like a conventional swimmer.

[1673] Everything that had taught you, especially in waves and everything.

[1674] So I ended up developing quite a weird technique that looked really slow and cumbersome.

[1675] I almost looked to sleep, but, you know, it was really rolling.

[1676] and that's why I asked you about swimming and even looking at Bert again to use him as a but I know he did as triathlon but for everything that is taught about swimming it's probably for someone who looks like you know Michael Phelps or you know an amazing specimen at swimming so you're saying Bert's fat is that what you're saying I am saying that but for the record Jamie heard that Jamie for the record I've heard it as a repeated yes it's like a hashtag Hashtag Broder's fan?

[1677] For the record, on record, I think is a specimen of a male.

[1678] What I would say?

[1679] But you're getting Well, listen, we have photographic evidence.

[1680] Go up that photo of him with his belly hanging out.

[1681] It's the most ridiculous.

[1682] This is after he ran a marathon.

[1683] Is this pre -all post, sober October?

[1684] Because he's lost a lot now, though.

[1685] Yes.

[1686] He lost 18 pounds during Sober October.

[1687] He's the only one that lost weight.

[1688] I gained weight.

[1689] But there was that video, because he was dancing in his bathroom recently, wasn't he in would they look at this photo denim pants look that that's not even the worst one I love him why is Burke Chrysler so fat he's that is that is a fine specimen of a man that that's the one that's one but is he because he wore those for the weight end is he got that's pretty sober octa he's got a bunch of those he's got more than one pair of denim that's what he wears I love him I love him he's an animal the fact that he ran a marathon with that body is amazing It's like, yeah, running Lamonts and a pinto.

[1690] No, but he doesn't get enough credit.

[1691] I think that's amazing.

[1692] You're right.

[1693] It doesn't get enough credit.

[1694] Call them up.

[1695] But everything that you...

[1696] That's not real.

[1697] It's not that big.

[1698] That's a Photoshop or something.

[1699] But it would be the same...

[1700] It would be the same with you that if we were looking at your swimming technique, there'd be certain everything that you'd probably learn probably wouldn't be applicable to you because of how broad you are, how things that you could actually use.

[1701] So I was basically really engaging the lats, the traps, the larger muscle.

[1702] of the back, going back to the video with Brian Shaw, when he was just ripping it out of the floor.

[1703] And I knew that I couldn't necessarily do that, looking at delts, high catch, high elbows.

[1704] It's like, what, you're going to do, high elbows for 157 days for 12?

[1705] Right.

[1706] You know, no. So everything that I'd learn, and certainly, you know, great friends of mine who are, you know, Liam Tank got 50 -meter world record, a backstroke, you know, Kerry on Payne, double world champion, 10K.

[1707] these were amazing athletes i'm not one of them so you developed a more efficient slower a style that you could continue for five months yeah and you just end up it's like moving meditation it just became like you know the limiting factor was just like i was just getting bored like i wasn't actually breathing what were you thinking of this is the thing i mean you had to at any given time any tide you had to think of something that was going to be more powerful than the thought of stopping or fatigue or sea ulcers like getting deeper into your skin and so sometimes it was real easy because you were swimming with dolphins minky whales i swam with a basking shark did they come over to you going what the fuck is this dude doing yeah like one really yeah there's a there was a video ages ago with the the minky whale and the i was swimming 12 hours across the bristol channel so that's kind of england to whales and this this was without doubt for all the hardship that i spoke about I just want to say there were some amazing moments.

[1708] This one particular moment, swimming across the Bristol Channel, and all of a sudden, Minky Whale, kind of about as big as this table, breeches right next to me. And I was like, whoa, like, too much, I turned to Matt, the captain.

[1709] I was like, Matt, am I safe?

[1710] Like, what's going on?

[1711] Like, shall I get out of the war?

[1712] And he said, no, no, no, no, you're absolutely fine.

[1713] And I was like, okay, because it's a Minky Whale that they're fine, they're friendly.

[1714] I was like, okay, fair enough.

[1715] So I keep swimming.

[1716] And then for the next five miles, the Minky Whale was circling me. It was breaching over the top.

[1717] It was coming under me and swimming like that.

[1718] I turned to Matt, I said, like, Ma, what's going on?

[1719] And he said, I've never seen this.

[1720] He's been sailing like 40 years.

[1721] He says, I've never seen this.

[1722] He said, but what I think is happening is I think it's a female.

[1723] She's trying to fuck you.

[1724] Well, I said, it's not mating season.

[1725] He was like, no, no, no, no, it's fine.

[1726] He goes, what I think is saving you for later.

[1727] This motherfucker can go.

[1728] Look at him.

[1729] I've seen him for four months in this water.

[1730] I'm going to fuck him.

[1731] Mating season is probably right around the corner.

[1732] She's like, if he's around.

[1733] I was getting a move on that.

[1734] So I know, I was like, you know, what is, like, that was a concern of mine.

[1735] Yeah, I would imagine.

[1736] Yeah, no, no, no, I think it's a few miles.

[1737] I think that she thinks that you're an injured seal.

[1738] And so for the next five miles, she basically guided me all the way to the shallower water.

[1739] And as I got there, it was literally the depth of the water.

[1740] Matt said, yeah, yeah, much shallower water.

[1741] And we turned, whale breached one more time.

[1742] and then swam off as if to say, you know, you're safe now.

[1743] Wow.

[1744] Amazing.

[1745] That's incredible.

[1746] Amazing, yeah.

[1747] So for all of the hardship and everything that I've described, there were moments and sunsets and swimming with seals and it was amazing.

[1748] Whoa.

[1749] So that's the basking shark.

[1750] Is that what you encountered?

[1751] Yeah, so that was in the...

[1752] That's the actual one you encountered?

[1753] I don't know if, I can't, I mean, I'll swim behind me. It seems like you could swim in that.

[1754] I was concerned about that one.

[1755] But no, so that's a basking shot.

[1756] So they're friendly.

[1757] But the, can you imagine seeing that?

[1758] Like, you're swimming through Scotland, like mountains either side of you.

[1759] And so, so to your point about asking what you think about, it's very easy to swim when, you know, there's dolphins and everything, but there's times when you are lost in this moving meditation, but then you see something like that and you've very quickly got to get your wits about you.

[1760] Because there were killer whales as well up, you know, coming from sort of Iceland around the top of Scotland.

[1761] So that was a concern.

[1762] Were they interested in you?

[1763] Thankfully, we didn't see any.

[1764] But they wouldn't attack you right there.

[1765] Well, so this is it.

[1766] So we were speaking with marine biologists at the time saying, look, like, what's the situation here?

[1767] And they said, well, you know, what's really interesting, they're so intelligent.

[1768] You know, killer whales are so, so intelligent.

[1769] And they've never been known.

[1770] This was what they said to me. They've never been known in the wild to attack a human.

[1771] And I said, okay, fantastic.

[1772] And they said, however, if they're going to attack a human, you.

[1773] and it's probably going to be you because no one's ever spent that amount of time in the water as well you know so I was like right they said all you need to do is I was like all right comforting so they just said look all you need to do is make sure that you don't look like a seal because they might mistake you for a seal but they might bite you but then they'll go oh whoa that intelligent they'll be like oh that doesn't taste like a seal so they might you know so I was just trying my best not to look like a seal well I think when they've attacked people in the wild though, it's always, or in captivity, it's always been trainers.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] It's always been angered, frustration.

[1776] You know?

[1777] And that was my experience with the minkie well and everything.

[1778] It was, people said, like, how do you swim at night?

[1779] Because certainly around West of Scotland, it was a depth of 200 meters.

[1780] So you just, you can't, you don't know what's under you.

[1781] So, um, there was that element.

[1782] But, but I think having swam with the minky well around the Bristol Channel, I was very aware.

[1783] that in the hierarchy of the sea I was very low down the pecking order and if it's comforting in any strange way I was like, look, if I was going to be eaten, I'll be eaten in the day just as much as I'll be eaten at night.

[1784] Right.

[1785] You know, it's just one of those things.

[1786] It's just darkness.

[1787] Yeah, yeah, just like you can't see the hand in front of your face.

[1788] It's like the Moray Fir for instance.

[1789] We were like 40 miles away from land and this kind of cutting across this huge bay across the top of Scotland and you know, it was clouded over so there was not You couldn't even see anything because there was no moonlight or no stars.

[1790] And it was you, in that complete sensory deprivation, you can hear everything.

[1791] And it's just if you hear a noise, a ripple, you're like, I really hope that's not a killer whale.

[1792] But then you've then got six hours to contemplate whatever it's.

[1793] So it's this.

[1794] And again, like I said, Marcus Aurelius, meditation, stoic philosophy, that the conversations you have in your own head are just as powerful with other people.

[1795] And I certainly found that all the way around that you would just.

[1796] just, there was times when you were just like, what am I doing out here?

[1797] Like, seriously.

[1798] And that comes from, I think, you know, this, this idea of, you have to be doing it for the right reasons.

[1799] And, and I've, again, to bring it back to MMA, I suppose, it's, it's really fascinated me, you know, some fighters, you know, Liddell coming out of retirement with Ortiz and certainly, you know, you know, McGregor's made so much money, you know, what would get him back out of retirement to come and fight?

[1800] Mayweather.

[1801] And, you know, again, I've been out at sea, so I didn't quite understand what was going on there with his kind of going over towards Japan and fighting and it's like, what does he need?

[1802] He's got so much money.

[1803] Oh, Mayweather?

[1804] Yeah.

[1805] Mayweather spends money.

[1806] He spends money like crazy.

[1807] He was going to fight tension.

[1808] Tension, how do you pronounce his last thing correctly?

[1809] Nasukawa.

[1810] No, so I've been out of sea, so I didn't really see what was going on here.

[1811] Yeah, let me, I'll see if you find that on my Instagram.

[1812] He's out of his fucking mind.

[1813] Would that have been a bad idea?

[1814] Terrible.

[1815] He would get head kicked into a, a coma.

[1816] But you kind of ask, like, what, what are the reasons?

[1817] And I think, okay, you go.

[1818] I think he spends a shit ton of money.

[1819] You think?

[1820] They're saying, they're trying to get it back on track.

[1821] He said Floyd had been duped into agreeing to the contest.

[1822] Look, they will dupe him.

[1823] By the way, they are very different.

[1824] If those, if this happens, believe you me, he's going to get kicked in the head.

[1825] Wow.

[1826] They're going to, they might say, no, no kicky, no kicky.

[1827] Listen, man, you get in the ring with tension.

[1828] he's going to try to roundhouse kick you into another fucking dimension so it was a special bout so there was going to be no kicking i don't know if they agreed to the rules wow okay but tension nasuka was i think he's 20 i think he's 20 years old he's a really fantastic talent wow yeah he really is but it but it fascinates me so i'm catching up on all this like i said so i've i've missed all of this for 157 days like i said i even Mr. McGregor and compete fight and stuff.

[1829] Go to striking breakdowns on Instagram.

[1830] Lawrence Kenshin has, he's done a bunch of breakdowns, as is Brandon Dorman's done a bunch of breakdowns too on tension.

[1831] But Lawrence Kenshin has this really fascinating video of him fighting this world Muay champion, and he wheel kicks him in the head.

[1832] It was more like a jump, spinning back kick to the chin, but the way he did it, it was like a really weird angle, and you can see him setting it up he's really creative and he just found like a weird opening for this guy and just kick this guy into oblivion right he's nasty and he's really sneaky like the kind of techniques that he lands he's very clever with his reads and his understanding of distance and in what's possible right do you see it striking breakdowns on on Instagram it's huh but yeah it's with this that it's you know how much money does he need he can't spend that much uh that's a good question i think he can but and this is what i love again i'm only just catching up on this like i said i should point i have been at sea for 157 days but with everything that happened striking breakdowns no i just got to it striking breakdowns it's not coming up no maybe there's something wrong with uh instagram hmm i don't know i got it right here here i'll send you the link so we can see uh yeah here we go send you this hope there copy link sorry folks um but this is a i don't know how much they were offering him you know so i don't know how much um okay i just sent it to you i don't know i mean it has to be millions of dollars that's the only way he'd be willing to do it but if they offer and he also tension is quite a bit smaller i think he weighs 1 30 and floyd walks around I mean, he's fought at 154, 150 -ish.

[1833] And McGregor was at 55.

[1834] This kid is fucking nasty, man. But he does a lot of wild shit.

[1835] Like, there's a video here where you see him fight this Muay guy, and he hits him with this crazy, that's when he was a little kid.

[1836] Like, see how he does shit like that?

[1837] Like, look at this.

[1838] Sip, sip, and it?

[1839] He was younger.

[1840] Look at this.

[1841] crank.

[1842] This is the one with the world Muay champion.

[1843] Boom!

[1844] Put that dude asleep, but the way he set it up, that's a weird angle for that kick.

[1845] It's very tight.

[1846] Yeah, very tight.

[1847] Real close.

[1848] And it wasn't around, it was straight, so it was basically like a jump -spinning back kick to the chin.

[1849] Which is hard to generate force from that.

[1850] Oh, no, no, no, no. But when that close?

[1851] Really?

[1852] Yeah, no, as long as he can get extension on his legs.

[1853] It's just he had to jump and tuck and spin, but the fact that he chose that angle, it's like he realized that the guy was going to see things that were coming around.

[1854] So instead of coming around, he had it come up and through the middle, which made it much sneakier.

[1855] But that's what we're describing now is another intangible, right?

[1856] Yeah, creativity.

[1857] Yeah, exactly.

[1858] I mean, and what, I found it so interesting when, you know, McGregor and Diaz and I, was just, I'm a huge fan of Ido Portals, so, you know, all the movement that he was doing, but I was just like, look, and I think it was, I think McGregor was on, I want to say Kimmel, but I don't think it was.

[1859] He was on a chat show, and he was talking about that spinning, capoeira, crescent kick, and he actually did it, he performed it.

[1860] And I was like, look, if he lands that, you know, the same way with Aldo, you'd be like, that is the movement is, is it, you know, you can forget cardio, respiratory, endurance, strength, everything that we talked about there, the metric saying, you know, heavyweight, you've got to be two, four, five, you or whatever the matter.

[1861] No, it's just movement.

[1862] He would have reinvented in the game.

[1863] And he, Karim is wrong.

[1864] I think with Diaz, he did try it, didn't he?

[1865] And it missed, I think.

[1866] With Nate Diaz.

[1867] I believe he did.

[1868] He threw it.

[1869] He threw it.

[1870] I think he threw it.

[1871] The thing, you know, that technique is a legit technique, obviously.

[1872] Wheel kicks most certainly work.

[1873] But it's not a high percentage technique.

[1874] It doesn't, there's only been a few wheel kick knockouts in the UFC.

[1875] The first one was Edson Barboso over Terry Edom.

[1876] number one.

[1877] There's been a few since then.

[1878] Vitor Belfort shocked Luke Rockhold with a wheel kick.

[1879] It's happened before.

[1880] Right.

[1881] But it's just not a high percentage kick and it's usually a kick that's, you know, it comes out of nowhere.

[1882] You don't expect it.

[1883] Right.

[1884] But that's, but can you tell when someone has it and doesn't?

[1885] It's because it's an intangible.

[1886] So if you said if at the start of the, you know, Barbosa and Etton fight, you said, you know, knockout by timing or creativity you'd say like what would you mean you know but if you could foresee that the same way that you could quantify that sort of mental fortitude i think you start opening the door in sports performance into something that's just this whole other realm that you don't talk about weight as a metric strength cardio respiratory endurance you can start talking is that hard to see again with yeah with creativity especially in regards to striking technique yeah that's a that's a crazy and tangible because you're essentially deciding when to move and what to do, right?

[1887] Like you can throw a jab, you can throw a front kick, you can throw a roundhouse kick, you can throw a wheel kick, you can throw a turning side kick, you can throw an axe kick if you're crazy.

[1888] There's a lot of different things you can do.

[1889] So what do you decide to do and why do you decide to do it?

[1890] Is it because you have a style?

[1891] Like some people's style is like Connor likes to hop in and out and he throws like a little front leg sidekick.

[1892] He throws like that for a movement.

[1893] He likes to keep his arms wide.

[1894] He likes to stand a sideways stance.

[1895] Some guys like to hole up like this in a Muay Thai shell, and they move forward, lifting that front leg up, and they move forward and challenge with leg kicks and striking technique.

[1896] Some guys just like to wrestle.

[1897] They'll paw at you and they look to shoot like Ben Ascran.

[1898] You know, he's not going to stand up and strike with anybody.

[1899] He's looking to take you to the ground, beat the fuck out of you.

[1900] That's what he does.

[1901] So it's all, what do you decide to do and why do you decide to do it?

[1902] And when do you decide to do it?

[1903] When do you engage?

[1904] You know, you're throwing some faints.

[1905] you know you don't want to be the guy who makes it obvious that you're moving forward because then like connor clipped aldo you get rocked you know it's a crazy crazy sport but you if you enter into that realm and even start applying more so again we talked about that sort of strength deficit as well that if you get someone you know trying to like like john Jones who you know move up to heavyweight is it going to be will it benefit him when he was strength training for instance you know and i can't remember his deadlift but it was pretty impressive pretty impressive i think it was 600 pounds Big deadlift, yeah.

[1906] So when you look at that strength deficit, John Jones, very lean, was using neuromusculary, he was recruiting voluntarily all of those muscle fibers.

[1907] It was unbelievable.

[1908] But if he moves up to Hebert, would it be, would any more muscle mass be functional?

[1909] And I think when you start looking at it?

[1910] When should he do that?

[1911] That's another good question because you're beating your body up to do that.

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] And is that conducive with high aerobic capacity training, like multiple rounds of sparring and bad work and padwork and you're all the lower back muscles that are getting stressed and does that lead to potential injuries is the potentially damaging his discs yeah his knees like there's a lot of a lot of things to be considered and when should you do that a lot of people think you should do that when you're nowhere near a camp yeah yeah like you win a fight and then you decide to to build up in between camps yeah and i think that's so awful even uh darren till you know who oh huge huge you know Walter were huge.

[1914] Exactly, but he's moving to middleweight now.

[1915] Yeah.

[1916] He missed weight in his title shot against Tyron Woodley.

[1917] And then he got rocked and put away.

[1918] So if you're moving up, how do you do it?

[1919] Do you do it intelligently?

[1920] Yes.

[1921] But then there are guys who are just, you know, like, they say training is the realization of one's genetic potential.

[1922] And when you get someone like, you know, Rumble Johnson, it's just, you know, no, you were never met.

[1923] He fought a welterweight.

[1924] No, he made weight.

[1925] I'm sorry.

[1926] He made weight against Tyron Woodley.

[1927] Didn't he?

[1928] Yes.

[1929] He made weight against Woodley.

[1930] He didn't make weight against Donald Serroney.

[1931] Right.

[1932] That's what it was.

[1933] He came in very heavy against Donald Seroni.

[1934] He's a big motherfucker is what he is.

[1935] You know, he's so big for welterweight.

[1936] I think he'll be way better off at 185 pounds, but I think many of them will.

[1937] I think there's a point of diminishing returns where they're significantly depleting themselves.

[1938] Right.

[1939] To make that weight.

[1940] And then when they don't have to do that, they have more energy.

[1941] We've seen that time and time again.

[1942] Exactly.

[1943] But when you had, did Rumble Johnson?

[1944] bought a welterweight right and he's just so big face got like gone and then all of a sudden moved on moot and then you know was it noguera i mean no gaugera yeah oh my god when he just he could fight heavyweight he did fight heavyweight successfully in in um the pfl he not he broke andri olovsky's jaw he fucked andri olovsky up as a heavyweight right and that's what always fascinates me is that and i suppose it's that god -given kind of power yeah yeah for all the training, it seems, you know, with someone like, you know, Johnson, and he, because he's said, am I right thinking, he said he's going to come back for heavyweight if DC and Jones go up?

[1945] He's thought about it, you know, I think he's, he's in the weed game right now.

[1946] He's making some money selling weed.

[1947] Right.

[1948] Which is legal now in a lot of places.

[1949] So he's, he's doing that.

[1950] What?

[1951] Jesus Christ.

[1952] Look at the size him now.

[1953] But he fought Hardy, right?

[1954] Yes.

[1955] He fought Hardy and um he took him down which was interesting he didn't want to stand with Dan back in the day it was a different thing I mean they kind of made an agreement to stand with each other and then he's like bitch and he took him down and he won by decision but that was a different Rumble Johnson I think the Rumble Johnson at 170 he had no fucking energy right he was on death's door he was just always exhausted he would lose fights he just he got choked out by Josh Koshchek he was just too tired yeah and you and I think weight cutting as well obviously you know there's been certain changes now.

[1956] But even now, and I love Max Holloway, but I think it was UFC embedded where they flew his favorite cupcakes over from Hawaii.

[1957] And he was like, yeah, I love cupcakes.

[1958] I've made weight.

[1959] And then he was just, you know, nailing cupcakes.

[1960] Not smart.

[1961] No. And I think there's just that element now that I think as much as MMA has evolved.

[1962] And again, this is someone who doesn't understand the technical aspects, but as someone who loves kind of sports history, you You know, and I've watched it, and I'm just like, that is amazing.

[1963] But it's still got so far to go.

[1964] Again, when we were talking earlier about, you know, football or, you know, soccer, as known here back in England and the warming up of the brandy, you know, in the changing rooms.

[1965] I think even now, it's crazy when you have someone so gifted like that, but they are, you know, rehydrating and recarboating on cupcakes.

[1966] It's like, yeah, there are better.

[1967] There's way better ways.

[1968] You've cut weight.

[1969] Your body is basically.

[1970] in fight or flight you know you've subjected it to a form of micro trauma you know body's kind of sitting there going whoa like what's going on and um then you're going to get here you go here's loads of cupcakes you made way yeah yeah terrible so there i find that really interesting that you see some of the guys who you know was it um gleason to bow isn't it who just like it was so big it was he got in it was like he sent he'd weigh in and then it would be like he sent his older brother in like They were unrecognizable.

[1971] And I think it's really interesting that that physiological puppetry, if you know how to do it intelligently, it can be so powerful, but you do it for the wrong reasons.

[1972] But even if you know how to do it intelligently, there's still a demand that it places on your organs.

[1973] That's, there's consequences.

[1974] You're right.

[1975] And over time, your body resists it.

[1976] And this was the thought behind Max Holloway's last weight -cutting fail is that when he was trying to cut down on short notice to fight, Nehneumegov, he was cutting down only to 155, and he couldn't make it.

[1977] Right.

[1978] And they pulled him out of that, and then he started suffering some significant problems when he was getting ready for Brian Ortega.

[1979] Right.

[1980] And they think that when he was getting ready for Ortega, what was going on was his body was reacting to the fact that he was trying to cut weight again, and it was like, fuck you.

[1981] We just got through this man. Right.

[1982] You know, and he was like really messed up because of it.

[1983] Right.

[1984] And he had to go through a battery of tests before they approved him to fight again.

[1985] So his body had to like fully, fully recover months off and then get back to training and now he's okay again.

[1986] But I think it's changing.

[1987] I mean now, I mean, Frankie Edgar was almost the first.

[1988] He would fight like five pounds out.

[1989] He wouldn't even cut weight.

[1990] He wouldn't cut any weight.

[1991] Yeah.

[1992] That was his weight.

[1993] Well, this is what they say.

[1994] Frankie, although was the 155 pound champion and now competes at 145 pounds, really he should be fighting at 135.

[1995] And 1 .35 is where he could be at his best.

[1996] Wow.

[1997] That's what everybody says.

[1998] Wow.

[1999] Especially people that know, like, weight cutting and they look at what he walks around at and like, look, 20 pounds from 55 ain't shit.

[2000] Yeah, yeah.

[2001] You know, those guys do it all the time, especially you get a guy like a George Lockhart who really knows how to do it and put that weight back on you, you know, and how to do it correctly scientifically.

[2002] But we're seeing that now across all sports, I think, this evolution that we're understanding.

[2003] Colin Isles is one of my favourite So he was a good American sprinter I believe, you know, top 50 You know, he was amazing But wasn't quite making it You know, he's not a Usain Bolt, he's not a Justin Gatlin So they just said hey, Carlin, here's a rugby ball And again, like Jamie, it'll be on YouTube some ways Like, you know, widely regarded as the fastest rugby player They just handed him, you know, a ball And now there's one of my favourite clips Because he, it was one of his first games or something and I think it was an Australian commentator and he just ran like rings around everybody scored a try and then the commentator was like he goes oh my god he goes I cannot believe this can you believe here we go look here we go here we go here's the ball oh my god look at him go goodbye that is insane look at this this is rugby seven look how fast he is oh my god they're all quitting they're like fuck this look at him bless the guy chasing he passed that guy there's more this is I love Connell's and he ran passed him.

[2004] Like the guy was ahead of him.

[2005] But there's no, I'm not even going to sidestep you because I don't he's like he doesn't even respect their speed.

[2006] Look how much faster he is in those guys.

[2007] That's hilarious.

[2008] Well that's in many ways, right?

[2009] Isn't it like that other guy who broke the world record by rowing?

[2010] He had been doing something else and gotten so much power and energy in his body that he could translate that to rowing.

[2011] And we're seeing that now.

[2012] And that was was amazing there with Colin lines like I said he scored a try and then the commentator there was two commentators talking and said I cannot believe he's only been playing you know a number of months and they were like yeah no no that's amazing and then the other commentator said no no no I can believe it he's just tried to give the referee the ball and he didn't know what to do he'd scored a try and he was walking around and he gave it and the referee went no no no you now kick it you know it was it was amazing they didn't bother teach them like just listen man just run but what do I do when I get to the end just get to the end and then we'll talk I'll tell you what to do.

[2013] It'll take about three minutes.

[2014] They do, they do.

[2015] Just fucking run, baby.

[2016] But you're seeing it.

[2017] That's incredible.

[2018] I think you spoke about this, not too long about it.

[2019] I think you might have mentioned LeBron James saying if someone like that I was taught MMA.

[2020] Oh my God.

[2021] Everybody would be dead.

[2022] What would happen?

[2023] And I think we're seeing that now that, you know, sports.

[2024] Now there's more money, you know, in MMA and it's evolved to what it is now.

[2025] It's amazing that if you get, you know, some unbelievable phenom as a kid, you go, you go and MMAs.

[2026] Yeah, but it's not as popular as basketball, and it doesn't pay as much money as LeBron James makes.

[2027] Because LeBron James, what does he make?

[2028] A hundred million dollars a year?

[2029] Something crazy?

[2030] Just from basketball, it's like 35 or so.

[2031] 35 million just from basketball.

[2032] And then sponsorships.

[2033] Like, unless you're Connor McGregor or Floyd Mayweather, you're not going to make that much money from fighting.

[2034] They can make that much money from fighting, but they're so rare.

[2035] And then Connor could only make that much money from fighting if he boxed Floyd.

[2036] Like, even though, the fight with Kabib was the number one MMA pay -per -view of all time, the number two pay -per -view and the history of pay -per -views, just behind Floyd Mayweather versus Manny Packia, right?

[2037] It got more pay -per -view buys than Floyd Mayweather versus Connor McGregor, I believe.

[2038] I believe that's true.

[2039] Wow.

[2040] Look that up.

[2041] I think it was $2 .2 million for Floyd Mayweather versus Connor McGregor, and then $2 .4 million for Floyd Mayweather versus Khabibnurga Medov.

[2042] I think it was number two of all time, just behind the Floyd Mayweather Mani Pachiaf fight, which is just incredible.

[2043] So they must have made a shit ton of money from that, but how many times can Connor do that?

[2044] Yeah.

[2045] I don't, you know, I mean, look, the Irish support him, but people thought he had a chance of winning that fight, and then once he gets smashed like that, I don't think they're going to think he has a chance of winning again unless he does something significant.

[2046] Right.

[2047] Right.

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] He has to beat somebody.

[2050] Like, he has to fight like Kevin Lee and fuck him up.

[2051] You know, if he fought Kevin Lee or Tony Ferguson and fucked him up, and then, you know, said, look, I had two years off.

[2052] I wasn't ready for Khabi, but I'm ready now.

[2053] Fuck the Mayweathers.

[2054] And he says something like that.

[2055] People, he's got to have some success, though.

[2056] Floyd Connor was 6 .7 million.

[2057] Floyd Manny was 4 .4 million.

[2058] And then it would have been right around the next one, which had been Oscar and Floyd, which is 2 .4.

[2059] So, yeah, it's like 2 .5, 2 .4.

[2060] So it's number 3 then?

[2061] Number 3 overall, number 1 MMA.

[2062] Number 1 MMA, but number 3 overall.

[2063] Yeah, it could be tied.

[2064] So what were the boxing numbers again?

[2065] What was it?

[2066] 6 .7 for the Floyd Connor, 4 .4 for Floyd Manny.

[2067] That is so crazy.

[2068] 6 .7 for Floyd Connor.

[2069] Wow, I had my numbers off big time.

[2070] But with that amount of money, that, it's so interesting that, you know, with that thrown around, around this kind of extrinsic motivation, money, media, fame versus intrinsic motivation.

[2071] And in a strange way with the swim, you know, when we got around John O 'Groats at the top, it was everyone was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you just set the lands end to John O 'Grote's record.

[2072] Well done.

[2073] And those cameras, and it was amazing.

[2074] And then I was just swimming across the Moray Firth getting hit by jellyfish in, you know, six degree waters.

[2075] It was horrible.

[2076] And I think, I think right now as well, and Khabib fascinates me that, you know, and I I don't know the logistics again, you know, I've been out of sea, so I'm still trying to catch out.

[2077] But he was offered so much money for the rematch.

[2078] But I believe he turned it down.

[2079] Kabib?

[2080] No. Right.

[2081] There was talk of a rematch, but the UFC did not offer him a financial sum.

[2082] That was rumors.

[2083] They hadn't even talked.

[2084] They were trying to figure out what to do next.

[2085] And, in fact, the UFC said that most likely next was Tony Ferguson.

[2086] Okay.

[2087] Okay.

[2088] So that's the current, the last time they talked about someone fighting.

[2089] for the title again.

[2090] But it was a while ago now.

[2091] it might have been UFC embedded when, and I think it was when Kabeb years ago now met George St. Pierre and Kabeb, you know, said, oh, lovely to meet you.

[2092] And then Khabi was smiling and he said, oh, you know, my dad has always said that he'd love to see me fight, you know, George St. Pierre.

[2093] And for me, that was really interesting because Kabe's motivation seems to be intrinsic and putting his skills against the best people in the world.

[2094] You could offer him all the money in the world, but he just wants to do something.

[2095] when he talks about his dad, his family, and it's a different beast.

[2096] And that's what I find really interesting.

[2097] But I'm not saying different as in better, worse, good or bad, because ultimately Mayweather's never lost.

[2098] But when you see someone like Mayweather, you think, is he just extrinsically motivated when he's saying, you know, if it doesn't make money, it doesn't make sense?

[2099] You kind of look at him going, well, you're extrinsically motivated arguably.

[2100] And I don't know, I've never met the guy and stuff, but you're extrinsically motivated, but you've never lost.

[2101] So which one's more powerful?

[2102] I don't think he's completely extrinsically motivated.

[2103] I think that's a lot of it as an act.

[2104] Do you think?

[2105] Yeah, he's too good.

[2106] He's too good.

[2107] There has to be some deep emotional connection to his work.

[2108] There's got to be some connection to his legacy, what he's been able to do, the way he's been able to retire undefeated as a professional boxer, which is almost unheard of.

[2109] Right.

[2110] Because I want to believe that.

[2111] And I hope that's true.

[2112] Because you're almost taught, like, intrinsic motivation do it for the love you know and sort of you know the sweet science i want to believe that mayweather's there and he's studying you know but maybe he doesn't want you to see that side oh no he's too good right he's too good he's got to have a love of boxing there's no way he's too good the way he he's artistically taking guys apart like you go to the canello alvarez fight the way he was like it was slipping away from canello's big shots and then popping him with the jab's like bitch not today not today you're good enough for this and it was intelligent in his approach to that fight too because he made canello drain himself to get down to 150 pounds right that was a different thing because he forced canello to cut a lot of weight to get down to his weight class but it mean Floyd really realistically he's 147 pound fighter I mean he's only fighting in these higher weight classes because the money's there right he's a fucking wizard man he's a wizard but that's what I mean about like that that that will start.

[2113] You know, he's playing with everybody's head.

[2114] You talk about like psychological warfare, you know, the art of war and everything like that.

[2115] And he's doing it on a mass scale like we've probably never experienced before.

[2116] Well, it was fascinating was Connor was doing it to him.

[2117] He was screaming in his face with a hard on, by the way, at the way in.

[2118] So I don't know how he generated a heart on.

[2119] But, you know, he must have played with his dick before he got out there or took some Viagra or something.

[2120] I really think that might have been part of the psychological motivation.

[2121] Just screaming.

[2122] Just screaming in his face, I'm going to fucking kill you, you little puke, you piece of shit.

[2123] And Floyd was just like this.

[2124] Just dead face, staring at him.

[2125] Right.

[2126] Didn't scream back.

[2127] Dead face, stayed calm.

[2128] Like, tomorrow I'm going to fuck you up.

[2129] And there ain't a goddamn thing in the world that's going to change there.

[2130] Right, right.

[2131] Well, Connor was like the first guy that Floyd ever fought that could fuck him up in a real fight, though.

[2132] Right.

[2133] That was the, there was a different element of danger there because there was a greed upon rule set where Connor wasn't going to kick, wasn't going to take him down, wasn't going to strangle him.

[2134] So because of that, Floyd knew he could win.

[2135] But he also knew, without a doubt, if they were just going to fight, fight, if there was no gloves, if they just put the gloves aside and just had a street fight, Connor would fucking kill him.

[2136] I mean, there's not a question on my mind.

[2137] There's not a doubt to be had.

[2138] Connor would kick him from a distance.

[2139] He would probe him with front kicks, kick his leg, kick his leg, and he would probe him with front kicks, legs, Floyd would start to limp, Connor would step in, tie him up, elbow him, take him down, smash his face into a bloody pulp, do whatever he wanted to him, strangle him, rip his knees apart with leg locks, do whatever he wanted to him if they were going to just fight, fight.

[2140] You know, and he said that to him.

[2141] He's like, if this was a fight, I'd fucking kill you.

[2142] He just looked right out of him, and he was saying that to him.

[2143] Floyd had to just eat it, but it didn't matter because it wasn't a fight.

[2144] It was a boxing match, and he didn't have a chance.

[2145] But do you think that worked with Aldo, for instance, because, and again, this is me kind of just talking more on the mental warfare side and not really understanding the technical aspect, but that world tour was fascinating to watch.

[2146] And the whole way around, and again, this is me not understanding all that much about MMA, but being fascinated with the mental aspect that, and again, George St. Pierre, when he fought Nick Diaz, and they were saying, you know, we're going to, he's going to talk to you.

[2147] He's going to talk to you, he's going to walk you down, don't be affected.

[2148] And George St. Pierre was like, I'll cross.

[2149] yeah, I won't be.

[2150] And then he was talking so much that George Sampier even said it just invoked again, actually going back to what we were talking about, you know, our bodies, as much as we like to think about it as black and white, the complex biochemical organisms.

[2151] So when, and I'm not saying that, you know, the Diaz brothers necessarily think like that, but they're like, I'm going to talk to you and I'm going to mess with your biomechanic.

[2152] Do you know, the chemical reactions within your body, neurotransmitters, making you for, emotions, mind fuck you.

[2153] Yes.

[2154] They're doing it for sure.

[2155] doing, they're not stupid.

[2156] When Nick's doing that to you, he's like, what bitch?

[2157] What you're going to do bitch?

[2158] He's fucking with your head, man. Right.

[2159] I remember the first time he did that to Robbie Loller.

[2160] Robbie was like 20, 21 years old, and Nick was young too, and they're both standing to the, they moved into the cage, and they closed it, and Nick Diaz just started saying, Stalkton motherfucker, and Robbie Lauer was like, what?

[2161] And he's like standing in front of him, that's against Carlos Condit.

[2162] He drops his, the best one was against Anderson Silva.

[2163] He fell to the ground and pretended he was sleeping.

[2164] He put his hands together like he was taking a nap he laid down and i i couldn't stop laughing i was like this motherfucker is so crazy he just like right there drop down and start of relaxing go to the back go back that one's better yeah that when you see him lay down and leaned on his head like i'm just going to take a nap here like what are you doing bitch he was doing what Anderson silver did to forest griffin and has done all his career but he's doing this to a guy who's the 187 85 pound rather best ever and he's not even 185 pounder he's really a 155 pounder I mean Nick Diaz when he was a champion in Strike Force or lead XC lead XC right he was a 155 pound champion but what's amazing here is everything that we talk about in terms of intangibles mind -body connection Nick is imposing his mind -body connection on Anderson in that he's gonna I'm gonna mess with yours he's fucking with his head for sure what was he the champion why am I not remember bringing it.

[2165] Was it Elite XC or Strike Force that Nick Diaz was the champion of?

[2166] It might have been Strike Force.

[2167] Why can't I remember?

[2168] Yeah, but why did I think Elite XC?

[2169] No. He, I don't even think he fought Elite XC, did he?

[2170] Oh, okay, now I remember because that was because Mayhem Miller and Jake Shields had a brawl in Elite XC and Nick Diaz was a part of the brawl they all piled on each other and that was chaos But Stripe, that was him, Paul Daly as well, I mean, the knockout I mean knockout but also just kind of like fell and so it's so strange that this intangible, this thing that I'm now fascinated with like mentally.

[2171] KJ Noon's EliteXC so he did fight him in Elite XC that's right so he fought in the lead XC and then became Strike Force champion that's why I'm confused wow whatever Mayweather did differently to Aldo might have been granted different sports granted but there was something that McGregor was like it's not working the way that when he pinched you know Aldo's neck and Aldo turned around and you know again without understanding the technical element there was for me it was so fascinating watching the two and like you said Mayweather stood there completely stoic Yeah, Aldo was not comfortable with it And he lost his composure And he attacked He attacked Connor in a way that Exposed him He got exposed to a counter shot He was he wasn't patient He was very emotional And he just wanted to fuck that dude up And he just got clipped Right, right You know And look Connor played him perfectly Played him like a fiddle Yeah, yeah Hey man, I gotta wrap this up It's already 5 o 'clock We just went for three hours Believe it or not It's a time warp in here No, don't be sorry it was awesome i really appreciate it and uh what you did is beyond impressive man i mean it's fascinating stuff and i feel like we could do a hundred of these kind of conversations though i'm so sorry how often are you in los angeles uh no this is my first time oh well come back come back and visit again man next time you're going to swim to the moon and let me know no this is it honestly like next time we'll get like we'll get burton again for record he's an amazing physical specimen of a fact guy right no no no no no no no no no no no no no No. No. Seriously, we'll go swimming.

[2172] Okay, we'll do something.

[2173] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2174] Well, let's definitely do another podcast, though.

[2175] This has been amazing.

[2176] Either way.

[2177] Thank you so much.

[2178] Really, really appreciate it.

[2179] Thank you.

[2180] All right.

[2181] Oh, tell people your social media how to get to you.

[2182] Oh, bless you.

[2183] So, yeah, Instagram, just Ross Edgeley.

[2184] Spell, please.

[2185] Yeah, I know, it gets difficult.

[2186] R -O -S -E -G -L -E -Y.

[2187] Same on Twitter and same on Facebook.

[2188] Thank you.

[2189] Thank you.

[2190] Thank you.

[2191] All right, folks.

[2192] That's it for today.

[2193] Bye.

[2194] Why, I'm so sorry, sorry, thank you.