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[0] What grade are you in?

[1] Sixth grade.

[2] Sixth grade.

[3] First year of middle school, yeah?

[4] Yeah.

[5] Who do you look up to?

[6] Well, I look up to my mom and my grandma, and in school we're learning about this artist named Frida Callow.

[7] And I really like her art and her style.

[8] Yeah.

[9] What about them do you really gravitate towards?

[10] Well, Frida Collar, she's just very different, her art style.

[11] And I really like that.

[12] What do you think is the coolest thing about being a girl?

[13] Well, like, doing things that people never thought girls could do and accomplishing that.

[14] I think sometimes people think that boys do more things than girls, but girls can do a lot more than some people think.

[15] I like that.

[16] Hi.

[17] Hi.

[18] This is our bonus episode.

[19] I love a bonus.

[20] Me too.

[21] We love a bonus.

[22] Something a little extra.

[23] We thought it would be really fun.

[24] a really cool idea since we've been talking to all these vets.

[25] Yeah.

[26] Vets of empowerment to talk to the next gen. Get a fresh take.

[27] We're dealing with all of our issues of things we were taught and working through that.

[28] What do young women feel these days?

[29] Do they think it's not a problem?

[30] Exactly.

[31] Are we doing it right?

[32] I mean, obviously there's things that needs to change, but where is their optimism level on their own capabilities?

[33] Yeah.

[34] Where are they now?

[35] Now, what are they thinking about, even not even related to being a woman, but just like, what are they doing?

[36] The reality that none of us want to accept is the younger generation always has some better, cooler ideas.

[37] They do.

[38] It's like, you can think you have it all together, like, my kids wouldn't know more than me. But then you look back at history and you're like, wait a minute.

[39] Remember when grandparents hated rock and roll and thought it was the devil?

[40] And it's just simply not.

[41] It's like cool music.

[42] What's that for us?

[43] I don't know.

[44] I guess TikTok kind of.

[45] Screens, TikTok, like the engagement, social engagement.

[46] I really have an optimistic outlook that they are going to fix what needs to be fixed with social engagement.

[47] We were sprung into it and a lot of the older generation, you and me, looked at it.

[48] Sold.

[49] Like a lot of people do like just a place to get your outrage addiction out.

[50] Yeah.

[51] I mean, yes, there is bullying and things need to change.

[52] But I think they love communicating with people all across the world.

[53] I think it's normal for them.

[54] And I hope that they'll do it a lot better.

[55] Yeah.

[56] And they won't have as many hangups.

[57] Yeah, I was probably right.

[58] I'm trying to think about, like, clothes.

[59] Every time I would come downstairs, my dad, be like, what is that?

[60] What are you wearing?

[61] Yeah, and looking back, do you feel like you were right or he was right?

[62] I was right.

[63] Yeah, always.

[64] I got to tell you something.

[65] I'm very into the Y2K.

[66] fashion.

[67] Yeah.

[68] Because it's all about feeling good.

[69] It's really all about personalized happiness of like, I have a water bottle holder that's made entirely of beads.

[70] Yeah.

[71] Of beads.

[72] And I absolutely love it.

[73] And I sling it over my shoulder with my purse.

[74] And I look, I'm sure, like a 12 year old.

[75] But it makes me so happy.

[76] The whole bucket hat, yes.

[77] Bright tennies.

[78] Yes.

[79] If you feel good.

[80] That's all matters.

[81] That's all that matters.

[82] So I'm digging.

[83] You know the other funny thing is like, every person will kind of get stuck in a fashion place in their life.

[84] Like our moms still kind of dress like early 90s, 80s.

[85] But like is Y2K my last fashion experiment?

[86] And when we are grandparents, will I be in a bucket hat and white parachute pants?

[87] And be beads.

[88] A beaded water bottle holder and bright kicks.

[89] Like is that my stopping point?

[90] I ponder this a lot.

[91] That's interesting.

[92] I think people's like what they're drawn to clothing -wise has to do with some sort of arrested development.

[93] Like at some phase in your life, that's then the time that you're always chasing.

[94] So like I look like a little girl right now.

[95] Like I'm wearing a sweater vest.

[96] It's a cute sweater vest, though.

[97] Thank you.

[98] And I like girly stuff.

[99] And I think part of that is I stopped developing at a certain age.

[100] There are so many holes in the argument you just made because you might feel emotionally like you were stunted in that spot, but you are one of the most forward -thinking, evolved, intellectual, smartest human beings I've ever met.

[101] So there, I mean, we'll take a whole other episode to unpack all of this.

[102] But I see what you're saying.

[103] But maybe, yeah, you dress emotionally because I'm along with the Y2K currently doing a whole gym rat theme, right?

[104] Yeah.

[105] It's because I've recently discovered fitness, which I personally think is kind of cool after having two kids that I'm like, wait a minute, working out is kind of chill.

[106] Like it makes my brain feel so good.

[107] So I genuinely now enjoy being like, wait, show me how you did that bicep curl.

[108] What side of the bicep does it?

[109] And Dax calls me a gym rat.

[110] Yeah, a lot of like Lulu Lemon or Spank's pants, big t -shirt to obviously weave in the Y2K aspect.

[111] And really, you know, standpoint with the Gen Z years, but maybe, yeah, you stunted with the puffy sleeves.

[112] Maybe I stunted at 41.

[113] I guess we'll never know till we're, like on the porch at 65.

[114] But remember when that was in, like also when we were younger, umbrow shorts and track suits, all of it.

[115] Yes.

[116] So maybe at that time is when you felt really happy or connected and now you're retreating.

[117] Since it came back, I'm like, wait, I can do it again because Gen Z's doing it.

[118] Exactly.

[119] Yeah.

[120] Okay.

[121] We figured it out.

[122] I figured it out.

[123] You proved one of my Swiss cheese whole points in that you're so smart that you actually proved your own point over my point, right?

[124] Ding, ding, ding.

[125] Oh, my God.

[126] All the way.

[127] Okay, well, we should hear from some of these awesome girls.

[128] And we talked to a bunch.

[129] We talked to some little ones who were super adorable and you'll hear from them.

[130] The vocab wasn't the same.

[131] No, no, no, no. The access to vocab just simply wasn't the same.

[132] It wasn't.

[133] the older girls.

[134] But we, you know, we get a wide range and it was really nice to hear.

[135] So here's a couple of the adorable ones.

[136] You feel good?

[137] Yeah.

[138] Okay.

[139] How old are you?

[140] Six.

[141] And how many teeth have you lost?

[142] Four.

[143] Wow.

[144] If you could have one superpower, what would it be?

[145] You could pick anything.

[146] Portling.

[147] Portaling?

[148] Like transferring places?

[149] Where would you portal?

[150] Here.

[151] Okay, how old are you?

[152] I am eight years old.

[153] What do you want to be when you grow up?

[154] Do you know?

[155] I want to be a fashion designer when I grow up.

[156] What would you make?

[157] What's the perfect outfit?

[158] Well, I once sewed a dress, and it was really fun.

[159] And I think it looked really pretty, so.

[160] I'm sure it did.

[161] Did that give you a lot of self -esteem to see something that you made and created come out so well?

[162] Yeah.

[163] I also want to be part of it.

[164] I'm selling the clothes and making the clothes.

[165] Like, I want to be the own boss of my store.

[166] Yes.

[167] Is there anything that you think your mom can do that your dad can't do?

[168] Well, my mom can do a cartwheel.

[169] Oh.

[170] My dad can't do a cartwheel.

[171] Yeah.

[172] I'd love to see your dad try to do a cartwheel.

[173] Yeah, I don't think you will.

[174] Well, I know a story.

[175] There was an incident at your house where bravery came into, bravery was required and who stepped up to the plate uh i did that's right you did you did something pretty grody that no one else would want to do yeah let's tell people what it was there was a rat in the bedroom upstairs that the dog brought in i was freaking out i locked my door i thought it was alive but it was it was it wasn't but then you said you know what i'll take care of it yeah do you feel brave in your heart?

[176] Yeah.

[177] I feel like I earned that money.

[178] Yeah.

[179] Yeah, that's, I think you did.

[180] What grade are you in?

[181] I'm in third.

[182] Do you have any role models?

[183] Well, there's this book called Rebel Girls that has like different women who like to change the world.

[184] So I guess like in that book.

[185] Who's your favorite in that book?

[186] Maybe Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

[187] We love her.

[188] What do you like about it?

[189] her that she fought for her like own rights and that she could be a lawyer and not just men could do you think there's anything that boys can do that girls can't do um well when my grandma was a little like girl or a little kid she um people told her that she couldn't like be an astronaut She could, like, only be a teacher, a mom, or wife.

[190] And women have to know that they can do stuff that boys can do, even if people don't believe in them.

[191] They believe in their selves.

[192] That's exactly right.

[193] It's funny because even right now, I'm fighting an instinct to say they are cute, right?

[194] Which the reality is they are.

[195] But my instinct should be to be like, they're also smart.

[196] And they were making great eye contact during the interviews.

[197] One of them, the eight -year -old, wants to be her own boss.

[198] And that is so cool.

[199] Yeah.

[200] And I never was thinking about that at that age.

[201] No, no, no, no, no. I was like the boss of my stuffies.

[202] That was it.

[203] You were probably the boss of a lot more than that.

[204] You have a lot of boss in you.

[205] Yeah, I lean in.

[206] Mm -hmm.

[207] But anyway, so you're right.

[208] You're right.

[209] We shouldn't be like, that was so cute.

[210] But at the same time, it's like, there's all this nuance to every single argument.

[211] It's like, but they are cute.

[212] They are.

[213] They can be both.

[214] They can be both.

[215] It's just catch yourself if your knee jerk is to only use that adjective, I guess, is what I'm trying to train myself.

[216] Yeah.

[217] Like, look for the things you'd look for in a person of any age or a person of any gender.

[218] Yeah.

[219] There are some words in our vocab that are so overused.

[220] And I would say cute is one.

[221] And mainly for girls.

[222] Yeah.

[223] Like I don't ever say, well, no, I guess we do say boys are cute if they're under a certain age.

[224] Yeah.

[225] The time where I call boys the most cute is this perfect time in their life when puberty's just hitting and their face hasn't yet grown into their nose.

[226] Sure.

[227] Like their nose grows first.

[228] Sure, sure, sure.

[229] And sometimes their arms and legs grow first.

[230] but the rest of them is still small and it's like two people smushed into one and I just think it's the cutest phase and it's usually when like the voice starts cracking but it's definitely like oh my gosh your nose and the length of your arms grew but the rest of you is catching up and I do think that is really cute and precious.

[231] It is.

[232] There is a look to an adolescent boy that you can't escape.

[233] Yeah.

[234] It's adorable.

[235] Oops.

[236] Oopsies.

[237] We're learning.

[238] Hey, Lainey.

[239] Look, we can still say cute and adorable.

[240] We just can't say only those things.

[241] It's not like we're canceling those words.

[242] We just have to remember to say other things, too.

[243] I fully agree.

[244] We talked to a nine -year -old who I thought had one of the most profound things to say in all of our conversations.

[245] And yet to her, no big D. NBD.

[246] NBD.

[247] She was just like, yeah.

[248] And you can hear it right now.

[249] Do you put these on?

[250] You can if you want, yeah.

[251] It's fun, too.

[252] It's kind of fun to hear.

[253] Okay.

[254] Are we ABR?

[255] How old are you?

[256] I'm nine years old.

[257] And what grade are you in?

[258] Fourth grade.

[259] How has year nine been for you?

[260] It's been really fun, but I'm really excited to be ten because it's double digits.

[261] Yeah, baby.

[262] And what kind of stuff do you like to do?

[263] I like going to the park, and I like playing with toys and spending time with my family.

[264] And yeah.

[265] What do you love about yourself?

[266] What I love about myself?

[267] I love that I'm funny.

[268] It makes me feel so happy that can make someone else happy.

[269] That's nice.

[270] Who do you look up to?

[271] I don't know her name, but like that really famous girl that's a gymnast.

[272] She's in the woman who looks, but she quit.

[273] Simone Biles?

[274] Yeah, yeah, her.

[275] She's awesome.

[276] Yeah.

[277] What do you like about her?

[278] I like that she always, like, going, she's confident, but I like how she gets sometimes nervous, and then she knows that she can do it and then, like, just does it.

[279] Is there anything that while you were growing up, you thought girls couldn't do or shouldn't do, that your idea has sort of changed?

[280] I thought there was such a thing as boy and girl colors.

[281] Like, girls can only have pink and purple and, like, boys can have, like, blue and orange and red.

[282] But then in kindergarten, there was this girl in my class, and she wanted to be a boy, and that changed my mind about everything having to be like a girl that has to be a girl, like you can't not be a boy.

[283] So when she became a he, the whole thing changed that for me. Yeah, you can like anything you want, right?

[284] Yeah.

[285] Yeah, my favorite color is blue.

[286] That's a great color.

[287] It is a good color.

[288] What was so special about that?

[289] is she learned a real time.

[290] I thought girl colors needed to be pink and purple and boy colors were blue.

[291] And then there was this girl in my class who wanted to be a boy.

[292] And she learned it and just accepted it and wasn't pushing back.

[293] When exposure happens at such a young age, there is less pushback because what you're doing is still collecting data about the world.

[294] Like, oh, this person who might have been born diet, diagnosed female.

[295] I don't know if I'm using all the right words here.

[296] But then definitely knew in their heart that that was not what they wanted or what was correct for them transitioned.

[297] And that happened.

[298] And there's no other weight put on it.

[299] It wasn't like stressful to any of the kids in the class.

[300] It was just happening.

[301] Things can happen.

[302] We don't have to put all this weight on what it means to us personally or culturally or societally.

[303] It can just happen.

[304] And it also speaks to when you have something in front of you when you can humanize it.

[305] You can be not supportive of gay marriage.

[306] And then guess what?

[307] Your nephew, Dan, falls in love with the man and you love Dan and you want to support him and you go, well, you know what, I changed my stance.

[308] When you can humanize something and it's closer to you, and that's the reason these conversations are important.

[309] Exactly.

[310] Because there are things that are closeted all around us.

[311] People who feel that they are not in the right body, gender -wise, people who want to speak out about something, women who might want to speak up and say, I have better capabilities, stop boxing me. The more we start talking about it, the more we realize these things happen all around us, and they just are.

[312] We don't have to choose to let them affect us negatively.

[313] Change doesn't have to be negative.

[314] Change scares people.

[315] Same of fashion.

[316] This Y2K thing is freaking people out.

[317] Yeah, well, especially all your beads.

[318] It's a lot of color.

[319] You know what?

[320] It's like, I don't know why my cool beaded water bottle has to affect anybody else.

[321] Just let me carry it.

[322] It doesn't have nothing to do with you.

[323] Mind your business.

[324] Yeah.

[325] People are threatened by change and I understand it and I hope that the conversation continues in a way where we can acknowledge change is scary fundamentally and chemically.

[326] So acknowledging that that's what's happening.

[327] I'm scared because I don't want my world to get rock.

[328] I feel safe here and that threatens my safety, even though it doesn't, but it feels like that in the moment.

[329] Well, every single problem that a human being has ever had can be related to a fear that that human being holds.

[330] Yes.

[331] We're taking everything in and we are turning what our internal fears are into a problem about the other person.

[332] Yes.

[333] And once we can admit that, but that takes a lot of vulnerability.

[334] We're interpreting all the information around us and we only have our brains to do it.

[335] We are just not objective.

[336] That's the way we work.

[337] So acknowledging that and then trying to course correct of like, oh, I'm judging this person.

[338] What does that actually mean about me?

[339] And then hopefully that can lead to more openness.

[340] But next we'll hear from someone who is so I know this word is pejorative, but I don't know why.

[341] Percocious.

[342] To me, precocious is great.

[343] Precocious is you're more adult than your age.

[344] I agree with you.

[345] Some people look at that as a pejorative, but I love that word.

[346] Because I've been called that word before.

[347] I would imagine you have as well.

[348] But to me it means curious, bright -eyed, interesting, involved, awake.

[349] I totally agree.

[350] Like, I want kids to be thinking in a more adult way.

[351] And I do think the younger generation is.

[352] and this young 11 -year -old is the epitome of that.

[353] Hello.

[354] How old are you?

[355] I am 11 years old.

[356] And you started a new school this year, right?

[357] Yeah.

[358] And did you know anyone at the school?

[359] I knew one person.

[360] One person.

[361] Were they in your class?

[362] Yes.

[363] How did you handle going to a new school with all new kids in sixth grade?

[364] Well, I like meeting new people and being around new people.

[365] and I wasn't really nervous at all.

[366] And I was just mainly really excited to meet new friends and experience what it's like to be a new person because at my school, my old school, there were a lot of new kids that came, and I love to, like, show them around and, like, give them a tour of the school and, like, be with them a lot.

[367] So I was excited to know, like, how it would feel to be those people.

[368] Be on the other end?

[369] Yeah.

[370] On a scale of one to ten, How confident would you say you are?

[371] Probably 10.

[372] Where do you think your confidence comes from?

[373] Well, mainly because everyone I know is really supportive of me, and I know that if I put my mind to something, I can do it, and that there will be people who don't like what I do and, like, people who think it's not good.

[374] But there's also people who will think it's great, and I just focus on that.

[375] And who taught you that?

[376] My mom, my dad, I had a really amazing teacher last year.

[377] And me and my mom and dad, we always, like, we talk all the time about this type of stuff.

[378] What do you want to be when you grow up?

[379] When I grow up, I want to be on Broadway.

[380] Was there anything else you ever wanted to be?

[381] Yeah, I went through a lot of things that I wanted to be.

[382] I wanted to be a vet for a long time.

[383] And then I wanted to be a teacher for a little bit.

[384] And then I wanted to be a wedding planner, a party planner for a very long time, and I was sold on that.

[385] But recently, in like the last year, during COVID, theater got taken away from me a little bit, and I realized how important it was to me. That's fantastic.

[386] Theater can be very powerful and life -changing because you're telling different stories, right?

[387] Yeah, and it's like a way to, like, experience more.

[388] After I do Broadway and after I have kids, I want to start an animal rescue.

[389] and save animals that need help.

[390] Do you think all girls should have kids?

[391] No, I think that it's totally up to them.

[392] And if they want to have kids, then they can have kids if they want to.

[393] But if they don't want to have kids and they want to do something else, then good for them.

[394] Do you think there's anything that boys can do that girls can't do?

[395] No. I think that girls and boys can do.

[396] do the same things and boys can do the same things girls can do and no matter what your gender is you can still do whatever you want if someone said you shouldn't play with trucks you should put this bow in your hair what would you say i would probably say that's not cool to say and i can do whatever makes me feel happy as long as it's safe and it makes me feel good and i have fun doing it and you can do whatever you want to do that makes you happy, you can play with trucks or you can put a bow in your hair and it doesn't make a difference.

[397] We could both do whatever makes us feel happy.

[398] I'd say you wouldn't play trucks with me. Exactly.

[399] There we go.

[400] Do you stick up for yourself?

[401] Yeah, I stick up for myself.

[402] I stick up for other people.

[403] And when somebody does something that's not kind or that's wrong, I don't feel afraid to just tell them like that's not, right and I'm not here to like boss me around and tell you what to do but I'm just letting you know that that's not okay and you can't treat me or other people like that.

[404] Would you say you have leadership skills?

[405] Yeah, I love to like be the leader but I've also like learning to be okay with not being the leader and like following other people.

[406] I like to take charge a lot.

[407] Did you have any roles at your previous school?

[408] Any titles?

[409] Yeah, I was the president of my school.

[410] last year, and it was a great experience for me, and it was really amazing and fun.

[411] And what was it like?

[412] What was it like being in charge of the whole school?

[413] It was exciting and cool because since I was in kindergarten, I, like, saw the president, the vice president, the secretary.

[414] I didn't want to be the vice president and the secretary.

[415] I wanted to be the president.

[416] And so every year, I'd like be excited to see who the new president, president secretary were.

[417] And like when I was finally in fourth grade, at the end of fourth grade, we got to run.

[418] And then I tried as hard as I could.

[419] What about at your new school?

[420] Well, we get a run, I think three months into the year.

[421] And I'm going to run again.

[422] And I know that since I'm new, it might be a little bit harder because less people know me, but I still believe in myself and know that if I try hard, I can probably do what I want.

[423] When you ran last time, How many girls before were the president?

[424] Since I had been there, there had never been a girl president.

[425] So that really helped me be determined to win, too, because I really felt like it was about time that there was a girl president.

[426] So really, precocious is the pejorative, not a kid who's not interested or interesting or involved.

[427] Do I know any young boys who have ever been called precocious?

[428] it's always girls.

[429] Oh my God.

[430] It really is.

[431] Yeah.

[432] It's like, oh, she's trying to be adult.

[433] It's very condescending.

[434] There are words that are genderized, and I think that that's okay.

[435] It's not like we need to make every single thing neutral, but we do just have to think about how often we are genderizing things.

[436] Andrea Savage used to have this great joke to try to neutralize that she'd be on stage as a stand -up and say, we always say to little boys, he smiles at you.

[437] Oh, he's such a flirt.

[438] Look at this little flirt.

[439] But we never look at a little girl when she smiles and winks and go, oh my God, look at this little cocktees.

[440] Such a cocktees.

[441] What a cocktees.

[442] And it's such a funny way to point that out.

[443] Yes.

[444] It's so ridiculous.

[445] No, I'm not making any big declarations.

[446] I'm just saying it's worth observing.

[447] Yeah, yeah, that's it.

[448] It's just the observation.

[449] And then you decide if you want to take steps or change your behavior.

[450] but acknowledging, oh, I'm using this grouping of words for my girls, and I'm using this grouping of words for my boys.

[451] And whether we like this or not, I mean, words are so powerful.

[452] And they do impact us at such a young age.

[453] And we take those in as our identity.

[454] So it is important to just have some reflection.

[455] Words can tangle you up.

[456] They can tangle and they can untangle.

[457] Yes, words have a ton of power.

[458] One parenting thing I'm using is like making sure my girls know that you do not have to words power.

[459] Somebody calls you something.

[460] What Dax always says to me, when I come home from work, if something happened and he's like, well, just imagine if they called you too tall.

[461] Like, oh, they said you were late and you got mad.

[462] Well, you are late a lot.

[463] I'm late a lot.

[464] And that's why you're angry because you know it's a character defect.

[465] But what if they had called you too tall?

[466] You'd be like, oh, no big deal.

[467] So there's all this internalization.

[468] This is old sticks and stones.

[469] Oh, yeah, sticks and stones, because you can also choose not to give words anyway.

[470] And to be honest, it's a really peaceful existence when you do.

[471] We had a situation the other day, our daughters, we don't edit ourselves, and they hear a lot of swears, and they don't like it.

[472] They tell us, like, they're like, you said a bad word, please stop swearing.

[473] Like, it's actually the opposite in our household.

[474] Yeah.

[475] But the other day, the eight -year -old had snatched something out of the six -year -old's hand.

[476] She said, give me that back, you stupid bitch.

[477] Oh, my God.

[478] Oh, my God.

[479] And rather than it being, uh -oh, this.

[480] grouping of sounds that came out of her mouth could be so detrimental because they were swears.

[481] All three of us stopped.

[482] We looked at the little one and we busted out laughing.

[483] Oh, that's good.

[484] We could not believe that she said that.

[485] And I was like, buddy, those aren't cool words to say.

[486] Also, you know that you can't say them until you're older.

[487] But we laughed so hard because it fell out of her mouth.

[488] That's the thing.

[489] You can choose to make those sounds that come out of our mouth.

[490] Not a big deal.

[491] It's true.

[492] It's so tricky.

[493] Yeah.

[494] I'm also hyper aware that words can be abusive.

[495] It can be a tool to really break someone down.

[496] Right.

[497] That's what I mean.

[498] But again, only if the person B who's receiving the words allows them the power.

[499] So it's got to be both.

[500] We have to be taught that words have a ton of power.

[501] Yeah.

[502] And that you personally can choose to take away the power from some words.

[503] There's never going to be a place where both of the.

[504] those things don't exist simultaneously.

[505] That's true.

[506] Okay, so this next section, we talked to a few seniors in high school on the cusp of being released into the world.

[507] Yeah, and man, what are they thinking about?

[508] What are they doing with their brains?

[509] How can we learn from them?

[510] And man, boy, did we?

[511] Wow.

[512] Hello, nice to meet you.

[513] Nice to meet you.

[514] How old are you?

[515] I just turned 17.

[516] You want to tell us a little bit about what school project you've been working on?

[517] Well, at first we started with a racial equity proposal because, you know, after the murder of George Floyd, our school district, you know, sent out a proclamation that we were going to be anti -racist and we were going to commit to equity.

[518] And we at that time, we're hearing a lot of performative activism from all kinds of people.

[519] So this was just our opportunity to have in writing something to hold them accountable.

[520] to.

[521] So we created a racial equity proposal where we just included different things like retaining more teachers of color, having more ethnic and racial courses, history classes, and also the removal of officers in schools and replacing them with restorative justice facilitators so that we can really work on being proactive rather than reactive and knowing that, you know, police play a really a really sensitive role in the lives of people of color, especially in school, because a lot of people just felt untrusted as soon as they walked into their schools.

[522] So just gathering that data from the students and making sure that they were at the core of the decisions that were made.

[523] And it led to us creating racial equity and justice teams at every middle and high school and then having them work with their feeder elementary schools.

[524] And that's what we did this summer as we held a retreat for students to come in and just learn about what it is that activism is and what plays into that, you know, what things we wish we would have known, like prioritizing our mental health and finding, you know, activism in many different mediums, just showing students that they're capable of doing that.

[525] So we had like different art bombs and workshops and people that came in from the community, just come in and work with students and hopefully build that sustainability so that, you know, the work doesn't live with us.

[526] So we have someone to pass it onto and they feel ready and capable and supported.

[527] Where did the ability to recognize performative activism versus actual change come from?

[528] Yeah, I think a lot of it is just from experience, like what we felt we were missing in our education, just growing up and also just seeing what the reality was versus what the words were.

[529] I feel like we weren't really able to pick that up as quickly because, you know, we just didn't think, our school could do us any harm.

[530] We thought they had our best interest at heart, but also just being in many different rooms now with people who are just so uneducated and also not wanting to get educated.

[531] And that's definitely something I've had to learn is like not trying to waste my time or trying to convince people to care about what it is that I'm advocating for.

[532] It's a balance between having that that patience, but also knowing that, you know, we're all aware of what's going on, even if it's a certain depth or a certain extent, we're all aware that there are issues and that there are actions that need to be taken.

[533] And I think it just comes from that symbolic stance rather than that real justice.

[534] So I think just hearing from our students and our community members on what it is that they're missing, you know, what they don't feel is catering to them.

[535] That's true equity.

[536] and being able to just ask them and present them opportunities to share that and be a part of that change as well.

[537] I think it really opened my eyes a lot and just being able to be that voice.

[538] Did your parents or anyone in your life kind of from a young age plant some of these seeds of you can do it.

[539] Like you can be at the root of change.

[540] Absolutely.

[541] I have a wonderful mother who has always prioritized her passion.

[542] At first you had you know, the brain of a genius, but she was working as an accountant, something she never even wanted to do.

[543] But then she just had full faith in what it is that her gifts were.

[544] And it led her to, you know, starting her own company.

[545] And then opening just many doors after that, we had to really be patient because we had to give up a lot too for her to obtain that and have that confidence to pursue it.

[546] But now she just recently became the professor at a university, which she hasn't even been to college and she's teaching college students.

[547] So you just get to see how you just never know where you're going to end up and how you just have to have full faith in your passion and your purpose.

[548] You've obviously, you've already made huge change and strides.

[549] And I assume you've had to be in front of a lot of adults and kind of make your case.

[550] and have you felt like you haven't been able to been taken seriously, or is that a struggle?

[551] Like, tell us about that experience.

[552] That's definitely a struggle.

[553] I think it's improved because people have been able to see what I'm capable of and what kind of things I've done.

[554] But I'll tell you, especially with the SRO situation, and SROs are school resource officers.

[555] A lot of people were pushing for us to compromise.

[556] They were, they were like, you know, they might not go for that so soon.

[557] You might want to push for reform or you might want to push for just having them not in uniform, things like that.

[558] But I wasn't driven by, you know, what I thought people would go for, but what people were asking for and what people needed.

[559] We had been sent in circles many times.

[560] We were asked to collect data.

[561] And then when we looked for it in our district, it was just, you know, sent in circles, not being really taken seriously.

[562] But then we worked with, you know, the Iowa Department of Human Rights to get that data.

[563] And then they wanted to see, you know, examples of when restorative justice is successful and just being able to show people that it is successful and that people are ready to commit to that.

[564] And we also did a protest here, too, as well.

[565] And that got a lot of backlash from, you know, the right people to have backlash from because there were people that just didn't believe in, you know, walking out of school or doing things like that.

[566] And it was really for it was for a bill that was saying that we would have.

[567] and be able to talk about race or systemic racism or just any type of inequality in general that's not patriotic in our classrooms and our schools.

[568] So we kind of just wanted to represent how that's disrupting our education.

[569] So to walk out and miss one period of class is nothing compared to what we'd be missing out on.

[570] But it's definitely been a lot to gain that courage and be able to, you know, prove to people that just me, myself, who I am, what experience I have is enough to bring to the table.

[571] And I know that, you know, they'll never be able to pay me what I'm worth.

[572] So it's out of pure passion.

[573] That is, that's, I mean, truly the fact that that bill was even on the table for or even a thought in anyone's head that like, hey, maybe there's a topic that we should say people can't talk about.

[574] It feels like when we, when people use to burn books.

[575] Because by the way, which all came out of because they were scary, progress.

[576] topics.

[577] Yeah.

[578] Do you have any role models that you look to?

[579] Knowing that I come from a community of people who pour as much into me as I do into them.

[580] I'm just surrounded by a tremendous amount of love.

[581] And I, and that's what really keeps me going.

[582] It's just about reciprocating that love and being able to, you know, take what I learned from them because I'm not an expert in anything at all, but there has been many cases where I had to, you know, bring someone else in and be like, can you explain to me how to run a protest or, you know, what safety guidelines should I be looking out for?

[583] Couldn't we rely on you to come and supervise or join this meeting so that we have some backup in case they try and gaslight us and things like that.

[584] I just have a wonderful village and always looking to grow that.

[585] So you held a Zoom event with women of color from different age groups.

[586] I believe that you brought your baby sister.

[587] That was my niece.

[588] Your niece.

[589] Your niece was there and kind of on your lap the whole time and listening and participating.

[590] Why did you want your niece to be there?

[591] Yeah, she's just turned six recently.

[592] That was actually a project I did.

[593] I chose to do for my newspaper class.

[594] A lot of people were writing articles and different things, but I just decided that I wanted to do something a little bit out of the box.

[595] So I decided to have an intergenerational conversation amongst black women.

[596] And I always include my niece and almost anything that I do, anything I can bring her along for because kids get it.

[597] And, you know, I know I got it from a young age, not as fully, but because a lot of people avoided that conversation with me. But I talk to my niece and nephews about this stuff all the time.

[598] And not even to, you know, indoctrinate them in a sense.

[599] Because I feel like that's what people kind of fear with having those conversations with, with younger kids.

[600] But just to ask them, like, what is it, what is it that you see or what is it that you have on your mind that you want people to hear?

[601] And just giving them that room that I wish that I had more of and that was more normalized.

[602] And I even had her, you know, be right next to me on the walkout.

[603] She walked from my school.

[604] all the way to the Capitol.

[605] I just like to uplift her as much as I can now because I know how much that I had to unlearn in order to be unapologetic about just who I was as a person, down from, you know, to my skin color, to my hair texture, just anything.

[606] And I think building up that confidence now and showing her that she's, you know, very much capable of being in rooms with these women and speaking as much as she wants to, just giving her that opportunity now so that you know she'll be fearless when it comes to anything else that she may encounter hello oh i love your headband it is oh my god it's so pretty how old are you i'm 17 i'm a senior i'm an rotsc and i'm also a peer leader what's an rotc it's a military program it's navy i'm a part of the deluth and jr o tc unit i'm the public's affairs officer, which I basically managed to Instagram, basically all communication that has to do with the unit.

[607] I'm the one that's sending all of that out.

[608] Now, I went to your high school.

[609] And when I was there, I don't remember any girls being an ROTC.

[610] Are there more girls now?

[611] Or do you still feel like you're kind of one of the only?

[612] No, there's a lot of female positions, especially in our staff.

[613] the previous two years, we've had female CEOs, which is basically our president, which is very big.

[614] This year we have our co -president at a female.

[615] But yeah, it's like half and half male and female this year.

[616] It's pretty big.

[617] That just goes to show such a change in the last however many years.

[618] If you think about ROTC, the first thing we think about is like fitness, stuff like that.

[619] We have girls that can do more push -ups, a faster mile run than a male, which is a amazing.

[620] Do you want to get into the military once you graduate?

[621] What are your hopes for the future?

[622] Oh, my hopes for the future are I want to become a athletic trainer.

[623] So that's what I'm looking into right now.

[624] The military, it is a part of my future.

[625] I don't know when exactly, but I know it is going to be a component in my future, especially as also playing lacrosse, because I am lacrosse player as well.

[626] Just because we're getting in touch with like, you know, the younger generation and the kind of the different.

[627] between you guys and us and the generations above us.

[628] Do you feel like there's a big difference in the way boys are treated and girls are treated?

[629] There is a lot of change still that should happen.

[630] Basically, like this ongoing thing with dress code all over the U .S., especially that's something in our school that's been going on.

[631] And I would say that, for example, saying that a female is a distraction towards another male student.

[632] And I would say that things like that should just change because there's some points where in school dress codes, there's 10 sentences for females and there's only one for male.

[633] Female should not have all these boundaries, have all these things just because a male can't control himself basically.

[634] And I would say a thing about like the programs that I'm in, especially like in lacrosse and in RTC, that female movement is pretty big, especially like how we have a lot of female officers in ROTC that I've gotten looked up by males and females, which is amazing because being able to be a head figure for a male is a really big thing.

[635] Do you have any, who are your role models?

[636] Well, my mom has taught me that I should never be the same as everyone.

[637] I should just be different.

[638] And I am in the school.

[639] They say that everyone knows me because I am very talking.

[640] I speak my mind sometimes when I really shouldn't.

[641] But that's me. And my grandma, she's just always put into me that always those essentials be nice to everyone.

[642] And I just really appreciate that they've taught me that from a really young age.

[643] I'm going to do it.

[644] I'm going to say you said I speak my mind even when I shouldn't.

[645] And there's no even when I shouldn't because you are allowed to have an opinion and speak your mind.

[646] And I'm sure you do and you know that.

[647] But the amendment does not need to be there.

[648] Because we don't do that to boys, right?

[649] We don't say like, oh, they speak their mind.

[650] Even when they shouldn't, we're just like, yeah, they're leaders.

[651] Yeah.

[652] I would say that because of all the things that have been put into me. Because from early age, I've had like a lot of middle authority, like my dad and my grandfathers.

[653] And especially because they have that old mindset the male, the male, the male.

[654] And I feel like my mom and my grandma have, to me, they've been the head of the house if I can say that.

[655] Yeah.

[656] Do you feel like you've shown your father or grandfather anything about female leadership and what they can do?

[657] Or like, you say like if they have an older mindset, do you feel like you've sort of gotten into their mindset and chipped away at it a little bit?

[658] I think I have, especially with ROTC, because I am an officer.

[659] I mean, O -1.

[660] So they're like, wow, like you really did that because there's some boys in the program where they haven't achieved that goal, which is like a wow factor to them.

[661] Can you all hear me?

[662] Yes, we can.

[663] Perfect.

[664] How old are you?

[665] I'm 17 years old.

[666] What do you want to be?

[667] What's your next step?

[668] So, like, my dad used to work in like a factory job because I am a first generation.

[669] So, you know, they're doing their best.

[670] And I appreciate that.

[671] And so he worked to package food for like, I think the military, you know, those kind of gross packaged food in the brown packages.

[672] He basically hated that.

[673] And so my freshman year of high school, he dropped everything, basically, and pursued his dream.

[674] And it's basically being a chicken farmer.

[675] And no one ever expects this because, you know, who likes the stench of chicken poop and and this grass.

[676] But I think that was really impactful on my life because, I mean, I'm seeing my own father, like, chase his dream.

[677] But it was really impactful because although it changed the course of my family for life, it's just really inspiring for me because he talks a lot about how people are very unhappy with their jobs.

[678] And, you know, life can get very stagnant when you're not doing something you're passionate about.

[679] You know, seeing him, be happier and be his own boss, that is like something I want for myself.

[680] Are you a part of any clubs or anything at the school?

[681] I started Girl Up Club at my school.

[682] I don't know if you know what Girl Up is.

[683] It's an organization under the United Nations.

[684] And it works globally for adolescent girls in third world countries, empowering women, like starting small and then it goes up and basically has like a domino effect throughout like, you know, little change.

[685] creates big change.

[686] So I started this club sophomore year.

[687] It's only been alive for like three years, but I've accumulated like about a hundred members.

[688] And I think it's just really impactful because, you know, I've been able to gain my own voice from it.

[689] But in doing that, I feel like other girls have been able to gain their own voice.

[690] And we focus a lot on advocacy and education.

[691] and we recently started a mentorship with the middle school.

[692] So we've started to, you know, instill this sense of empowerment into younger girls because I don't know about you, but like when I was growing up, I never really, I mean, I'm my only child.

[693] So I don't have siblings to find like solace in or anything like that.

[694] And my parents are busy working.

[695] So I was kind of like shy and kept low.

[696] You know, my opinions, you know, change that I want to see never happen.

[697] And so even like I was doing an internship at elementary school, kids are already starting to be like, you know, boys need to do this.

[698] And boys need to, you carry the chairs while the girls, you know, sit and do their work.

[699] It's just, it's like basically engraved into our society.

[700] And so I was kind of solved that need for change.

[701] And I don't want to toot my own horn.

[702] Do it.

[703] Yes.

[704] So, yeah, I'm really proud of that.

[705] And we've been able to do.

[706] fundraisers for menstrual products, you know, focusing on period poverty and like women's hygiene.

[707] We've gotten guest speakers on there.

[708] Girl Up is just so important to me. I could cry thinking about it.

[709] Another thing is that through Girl Up starting an owned club, I've been able to basically extend into nationwide.

[710] So I'm the currently the Girl Up Georgia president right now.

[711] And so So, it's, it's, it's, oh, thank you.

[712] It's nationwide.

[713] So we have biweekly meetings where we discuss, like, global leadership summits, events, like opportunities for girls.

[714] You know, we've gotten scholarships, like the whole idea is like women empowerment.

[715] And that has been really fulfilling for me. It's helped me with my own identity.

[716] And it's just, it's amazing.

[717] And then on top of that, I'm like on a ramble here, I run an organization.

[718] like with the company that I work for so it's like my family friends she runs like a lash business and she's also an immigrant and so she knows what the immigrant experience is like we've taken basically a profit of what we earn as a small business and we create an organization which focuses in Clarks in Georgia which is like a very highly immigrant populated city There's, I think, like, 200 plus nationalities living there.

[719] And, you know, these people, they're coming to America to find new opportunities, new dreams.

[720] You know, my parents describe America as heaven.

[721] And, you know, living here, we're always so focused on, like, the negatives and everything that's going on that we never really value, like, bare necessities that they don't necessarily get.

[722] You know, we collect household goods, like pods and pans and, you know, school supplies for children.

[723] who are basically just starting their education from the ground because they just got here.

[724] And that in itself has also been empowering for me because it's allowed me to be in touch with my background and my like parents and, you know, the sacrifices they've made to create a future for me. And it's kind of like cliche to like, you know, want to like make them proud.

[725] but ultimately that is the goal and yeah it's just all been very especially you know you take public policy seriously if you could enact one piece of legislation any any what would it be okay I don't want to do anything like too extreme but um I think over the course of working with girl up I've been very passionate about period poverty I mentioned before and like menstrual hygiene because I don't know.

[726] I get caught in the YouTube, like, loop of watching these, like, videos of these homeless women talk about, they don't even, they use, like, newspaper or, like, anything they can find.

[727] And I never realized, like, how lucky I am to know, you know, just have pads in my bathroom.

[728] And so, I don't know if you know about the tampon tax.

[729] Tell us.

[730] Basically, a tax, considering tampons, like, a luxury good when it's a bare necessity for a woman.

[731] By the way, anyone who's ever used a tampon knows how not luxury it is.

[732] Exactly.

[733] Like, that is comical.

[734] It took me years to learn how to use it.

[735] It is the scary contraption.

[736] But yes, all of the above, like tampons, pads, the cups, everything.

[737] Like, it is so important that women get, you know, because men, okay, let's be real.

[738] Like, men are the ones who basically run everything in government.

[739] Our society's built on a patriarchy.

[740] And so, you know, I can't blame them for not understanding, but it's ignorance if they don't realize how important this is us.

[741] I mean, they don't bleed every month.

[742] And so I just think like one law or so I would put into place is just starting small, eliminating tampon tax and providing the necessities for all women, regardless of, you know, if they identify as a woman or in schools as well.

[743] Like, some people don't have money for electricity, yet alone tampons.

[744] And so just providing everyone, that's like the bare minimum necessities for their period.

[745] I was so blown away.

[746] Yeah, I felt very less than.

[747] Yeah.

[748] I felt really, truly grateful.

[749] I was like, oh, my gosh.

[750] This thing I'm hoping for always, like, oh, the younger generation knows stuff.

[751] don't know.

[752] They're different than us.

[753] I always say that, but I don't really know them.

[754] So I'm just assuming it.

[755] But then when we heard from them, I felt so much relief.

[756] I was like, they are.

[757] I'm sure there were people in my high school who were thinking like that, but I never heard from them.

[758] People in my high school may have had those trains of thought about what they wanted to do, about their passions, even acknowledging what a passion was.

[759] I know.

[760] But I never heard from them.

[761] And these girls, they vocalize it.

[762] Yeah.

[763] It was so special.

[764] And even our third interview, the conversation about period poverty, I was taken so aback by that because all I could think, when I was a senior in high school, I would have been so afraid to talk that honestly about something serious because I would have been afraid.

[765] I would have been ostracized or people would have laughed at me. Ew, she's talking about periods.

[766] That girl is gross.

[767] Even the fact that we call it hygiene.

[768] which like the word means cleanliness.

[769] It's like, wait, I'm not dirty because my body does this once a month.

[770] Yeah.

[771] I was just so impressed that not only was she thinking about it, she was talking about it, she was also putting steps into action, bringing in the middle school.

[772] Oh, she had her shit together.

[773] I was like, this is amazing.

[774] And I love that she wasn't letting her societal peer pressure affect her.

[775] I just would have been really afraid of being.

[776] removed from the pack, even though I'd be doing the best coolest thing.

[777] Right.

[778] The thing that I've learned is that the ideas that can help a lot of people and make them feel safer and less ostracized are coming correct in the younger brains.

[779] We thought don't talk about your period.

[780] I mean, and our mothers and grandparents were like literally don't talk about your period ever, take this quarter, go get a tampon and never speak to me again.

[781] That's true.

[782] And that's what mothers said.

[783] Yeah.

[784] Like, we don't discuss this.

[785] Take the quarter and get out of my face, figure out how to put the plaxymax in your hoo -ha.

[786] And then we were just like, oh, keep it on the DL when you need to be like, whisper to someone.

[787] Do you have a Tiam?

[788] Do you have a tampon?

[789] Yeah.

[790] And now those ideas are just coming correct and sitting in the right place in their brain, not in the fear -based part of their brain.

[791] It's so cool.

[792] All of these young women were so astounding.

[793] I was so happy to hear them talk.

[794] Yeah.

[795] We do have one last interview.

[796] We thought maybe we should hear from a young male.

[797] Let's just add that in because I wonder what they are thinking as well.

[798] Yeah.

[799] And here he is.

[800] How old are you?

[801] I am nine years old.

[802] And what grade are you in?

[803] Third.

[804] You have two sisters, right?

[805] Correct.

[806] What is it like having two sisters and being the boy in the house?

[807] It's devastating I don't even get to play my own music in the car You don't Sometimes sometimes Are girls cool Depends what person is Good point Individuality, that's a good point Do you think there's a big difference between you and the girls?

[808] Yet again, it depends what girl it is Gosh, so true We're making some generalizations here And you're putting us in our place Yeah, you're pointing it out You're pointing it out But you, so you play soccer.

[809] Yes.

[810] You play on a soccer team.

[811] Are there girls on your team?

[812] Usually, like, a lot of boy teams in one program and a lot of girls teams in the other program.

[813] So you don't play with girls on your team?

[814] No. Have you ever had, like, a soccer match with some girls?

[815] At school, yes.

[816] Yeah.

[817] Were they any good?

[818] Depends what girl is.

[819] I love it.

[820] Holding us accountable.

[821] Seriously.

[822] Do you feel like you're able to talk about your feelings?

[823] Well, if my sister is around, she'll probably tell her to all her friends.

[824] So if I'm alone, yes.

[825] Yeah, like, do you feel comfortable talking about the way that you're feeling to your friends?

[826] If it's a good friend and you were, like, upset, would you feel comfortable telling them that?

[827] Yes.

[828] Do you think that you'll see a female president in your lifetime?

[829] I hope so.

[830] Hope there will be at least one female president in the world.

[831] Right?

[832] Do you have any role models?

[833] I have a lot of models, but my one for soccer is Cristiana Ronaldo.

[834] And for, like, World War II, Dwight D. Aus and Howard.

[835] Cool.

[836] I love the Battle of D -Day because we pushed so hard and have only 10 ,000 losses compared to the Battle of the Burge where we lost 20 ,000.

[837] There's a big difference.

[838] Big time.

[839] Yeah.

[840] And to you, you think, like, it's better probably to have less.

[841] losses, right?

[842] Obviously.

[843] Well, you'd be surprised.

[844] Well, I just think that World War I was a little better because we only had 19 million losses compared to World War II.

[845] I think we had 77 million.

[846] Wow.

[847] Yikes.

[848] Good job knowing all that info.

[849] Do you have any other interests outside of soccer?

[850] Like art or music or science or...

[851] I'm not a science person and I'm not a math person.

[852] If your sister came home and told you that someone told her she couldn't do something because she was a girl, what would you say to her?

[853] I've had this happen to me before, but with a different girl.

[854] Her mom basically said, you can't play soccer because you're a girl.

[855] I just told her you can play and tell your mom I played soccer today because I wanted to.

[856] Should girls be able to play soccer?

[857] Yeah.

[858] Is there anything you think?

[859] think girls shouldn't be able to do?

[860] No. Awesome.

[861] It's all impressive to me. It's impressive and optimistic and it makes me think that this podcast does not need to be for younger people.

[862] It needs to be for like 30 and up.

[863] Seriously.

[864] Or 25 and up because the younger people are on the right track.

[865] But that said, we, the older people, the adults have been ingrained with all this.

[866] This is a fear -based thing.

[867] This is a genderized term.

[868] This is something you say for boys.

[869] This is something you say for girls.

[870] We have to break the glass in our own brains around all of those ideas because we've boxed them in.

[871] And the only way to do that is to talk it out.

[872] Just keep talking.

[873] I had fun doing this with you.

[874] Me too.

[875] It was so fun.

[876] And we're going to try to keep doing it.

[877] We're going to take a break because mommy is busy.

[878] And I'm busy too.

[879] Yeah, you're busy.

[880] I'm busy too, but we're going to prioritize it because it's really good to keep chatting about this stuff.

[881] Rob, did you have any thoughts or takeaways from any of this?

[882] I really enjoyed hearing from the younger generation and gives me a lot of hope for my son as he enters into school and teach him how important having kind of a more open mind is.

[883] He was wearing a really cute feminist shirt the other day and a pitcher and it made me smile.

[884] Yeah, he has got a shirt that says feminism.

[885] some boys can do it, too.

[886] Oh, love it.

[887] Oh, my gosh.

[888] I love it.

[889] And he's four and a half.

[890] Okay, he's four and a half and he's wearing that shirt.

[891] So, like, this is the difference.

[892] Yeah.

[893] I love it.

[894] All right.

[895] Well, thank you guys so much for listening to us over the past 10, 11 weeks.

[896] We're learning.

[897] We're all learning.

[898] And we hope you are, too, or just being entertained, but we're learning.

[899] Yeah.

[900] We appreciate you.

[901] We appreciate you.

[902] And we support you.

[903] Shadda, I'll be Shadryland.