Chelsea Handler

[0] Welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dack Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Hello.

[4] We're in a very awkward situation right now.

[5] Yeah, Wabi Wob is holidaying.

[6] So Monica's running all the technical stuff.

[7] And so if you're hearing us right now, Monica did a great job.

[8] Yeah, let's hope you're hearing us.

[9] Good job, Monica.

[10] Thank you.

[11] Is there anything this gal can't do?

[12] I think not.

[13] Today we have someone who truly needs no introduction, but I'll give one.

[14] anyways.

[15] Yeah.

[16] Chelsea Handler.

[17] Oh, love.

[18] What a party we had with her.

[19] Yeah.

[20] Very effin' honest.

[21] This is one of my favorite episodes.

[22] Yeah.

[23] She was really, really incredible.

[24] She really was.

[25] Made my job easy as hell.

[26] It was really fun to talk to her.

[27] Now, she has a new book coming out.

[28] She's written a lot of great books.

[29] Oh, yeah.

[30] Her new book is called Life Will Be the Death of Me, and you too.

[31] And it comes out April 9th, which is a mere week away.

[32] So pick that up, you'll enjoy it.

[33] She's a great, great writer.

[34] She's hysterical and incredibly honest.

[35] It's a huge pleasure for us to give you Chelsea Handler.

[36] And one last thing I'd like to announce that we are coming to San Francisco, armchair expert, live in the city by the bay.

[37] When the lights go down in the city.

[38] Is that what city they're talking about?

[39] Yeah.

[40] Oh, cool.

[41] Armchair live from San Francisco will be on Friday, May 31st, right on the, knocking on the back door of summer.

[42] That's Friday, May 31st at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.

[43] Tickets go on sale this Friday, April 5th, at 10 a .m. Pacific Standard Time.

[44] There's a link on our website, armchairexpertpod .com.

[45] So buy some tickets and party with us in the same.

[46] city by the bay.

[47] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[48] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[49] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[50] How did you guys meet initially?

[51] I don't know the backslide.

[52] Monica and I's hobby is fighting with each other.

[53] We bonded over fighting about cereal, whether we thought Adnan had done it or not.

[54] Right.

[55] And what did you, what did you think?

[56] Well, I decided I didn't care if he did it that he just shouldn't be in jail based on the evidence.

[57] So you're like a lawyer.

[58] Yeah, I'm a lawyer.

[59] Yeah.

[60] I'm a lawyer.

[61] Yeah.

[62] I'm not enough exculpatory evidence and you signed with the law.

[63] Exactly.

[64] Exactly.

[65] I get that.

[66] I just got kind of horny as sculptor.

[67] Yeah, I like that.

[68] Plenty of plenty of time to get horny.

[69] Okay.

[70] I know.

[71] I'm trying to pace myself.

[72] Just relax, everybody.

[73] Yeah, I don't even really know where to start with you.

[74] But, um, uh, Chelsea.

[75] a welcome to the attic.

[76] Thank you for having me. I'm really, really excited.

[77] And the tables are turned because we've yet only shared maybe five, four or five experiences where you interviewed me, and now here we sit.

[78] Yeah, right.

[79] That's right.

[80] This is a very exciting time for both of us.

[81] It really is.

[82] It's a transitional phase for both of us.

[83] But I remember doing your show, and a better host would, like, reveal this much later in it.

[84] But I kind of had a crush on you.

[85] you.

[86] Really?

[87] For sure.

[88] Yeah.

[89] Yeah.

[90] Like I think going to your show, it was more than just like, oh, I hope I'm funny.

[91] I'm like, I also hope she thinks I'm cute or I hope, you know what I'm saying?

[92] I hope there's some kind of rhythm that happens.

[93] That's interesting because most men are really, you know, scared of like me. I was curious about that, sincerely.

[94] Are they?

[95] I think so.

[96] Turned off is a better way to phrase it.

[97] No. No, no, no, they are.

[98] Because, you know, I'm overly opinionated and loud and it's not, it's not a hot look.

[99] for a lot of guys.

[100] Guys who are really secure with themselves sometimes are like more open to it but usually guys my age or in my demo are not the guys that I appeal to.

[101] I have like a sweet spot with like 70 plus year old and gay guys but straight guys you know typically like no one's hitting on me because they're afraid that I want to hit on back well but maybe maybe you know we say where they're afraid a lot like girls say that and I feel like that's a lame thing to say because I don't want to diminish men and say men are scared of intimidating women, because I'm not trying to be intimidating.

[102] I just have a really, you know, big mouth.

[103] And it's like, I wish I would shut up too sometimes.

[104] Well, as a dude, I could float a few theories out there.

[105] One of them being, it's already scary to approach someone.

[106] It's already scary to kind of like put it out there, hey, I kind of like you.

[107] That in itself, even if the person's mute and can't report this incident to anyone else is already scary.

[108] Now, you add on top of it that they have some sense of your sense of humor and that you can be a when duty calls that fuck if this goes wrong she might humiliate me or make fun of me and then it might be a story that then gets told so that i totally relate to because i've done that i've written about terrible like sexual experiences in my books and i've written about bad dates so i that's totally warranted yeah and um when you did that did you change their names or did you call them and ask Sometimes I would call and ask for permission.

[109] As a, as I, when I first started writing books, you know, the legal issues are you have to get permission from everybody.

[110] So I just changed names and disguised people.

[111] But it's so stupid because you're changing, like, I was changing my siblings names in my books.

[112] It's like, it's not hard to figure out who I'm talking about.

[113] Yeah.

[114] Yeah.

[115] If you can't talk about your fucking siblings, they're your, I mean, they're your siblings.

[116] How could there be a legal issue with that?

[117] I think they are, like, I agree with that theory.

[118] Like, if it's your family you're allowed to talk about.

[119] whatever you want, but it's like, you know, for instance, my brother, in this new book, I talk about your brother's wife, she's Russian and obviously an enemy of the state.

[120] And I talk about her and not in the most flattering way.

[121] And I mean, I told her how I feel about her.

[122] I love her, ultimately.

[123] But I asked him, I'm like, is this really going to hurt our feelings?

[124] And he's like, no, go for it.

[125] So I did.

[126] And we'll see what happens when she reads the book and when it comes out.

[127] But I feel like you can take in your sibling.

[128] You can talk about your siblings.

[129] You're talking your blood relatives, you don't have as much license with.

[130] Well, yeah, and obviously people did not choose to be in the public light as you and I. And I didn't choose to be in my family, so there you go.

[131] Well, that one, yeah, that one feels equal.

[132] Like, yeah, like, fuck you.

[133] I got you guys and now you got me. But like maybe, yeah, friends from the past or something.

[134] And they're like, hey, man, we met in a math class.

[135] I wanted to be an accountant.

[136] Not a bad lay story in your book.

[137] Right, exactly.

[138] So boyfriends, to your point, you're absolutely right.

[139] Men, I've behaved in the way I've behaved in the past, that would include men feeling like, oh, that would warrant men to feel like I don't ever want to go near that girl because she's going to, like, ruin me on camera or in her book, you know.

[140] Yes.

[141] Well, I even, like, on a way smaller side, like Kathy Griffin, I've known for years because I was in the girlings and she was in the girlings.

[142] I adore her.

[143] I love when she's on Stern.

[144] I don't want to be around her at all.

[145] It's just a weird box she's painted herself in, too.

[146] Like, I don't.

[147] ever want to be the punchline to her stand -up.

[148] Right.

[149] Not that I know, and I don't mean to flatter myself that I would be, but just knowing that the whole routine is basically interactions with other people that are on TV, I'm like, well, why even be in that situation where I could end up there?

[150] And I love her.

[151] And I think she's funny and stuff.

[152] Right.

[153] Like, I'm sure Brooke Shields is like, why did you have to go and do that whole bit about, you know, she did a whole bit about like Brooke Shields and her mom.

[154] And it's like, wait, you were at their wedding.

[155] Like, it does.

[156] It can feel invasive unless you're fucking cool with it.

[157] And a lot of people are not cool with it.

[158] Well, you know, it's really funny.

[159] If I drilled super deep in my own ego and insecurities, it's also likely a status thing.

[160] Like, if Robert Dunny Jr. wanted to tell a story about me that was embarrassing, I'd be like, yes, do it.

[161] I just want the world to know you like me. But then if I deem the other person to be of my status or lower, then I'm like, you just keep that quiet.

[162] Yeah, I think a lot of people in this industry do that.

[163] There are different tiers of success.

[164] And you're like, are you in this list or you in that list?

[165] Yeah, like, is there a story, Michelle?

[166] Obama could tell about you that you wouldn't welcome with open arms.

[167] You would, right?

[168] They could be like you shit your pants at their house and you'd be like, you know, tell it.

[169] Tell it to as many people who will listen.

[170] Because that means that your guys are so familiar with you guys.

[171] You're best friends with Michelle Obama.

[172] You shit your pants there.

[173] You had to wear a pair of Michelle's pants out of the house.

[174] Or Barack's.

[175] Oh, yeah.

[176] Well, hopefully.

[177] You're lucky.

[178] Exactly.

[179] That would be Monica's choice for sure.

[180] I want to go back to intimidation really quick.

[181] It's not just men, right?

[182] Don't you think a women are intimidated by you?

[183] Well, what happened was, you know, I was doing my show.

[184] I've been, you know, doing some version of my show for like 10 years.

[185] You know, you'd get certain people who were like, well, they want to make, like, they would say, you know, make sure, please don't bring up his weight when he came on.

[186] I don't forget who the male actor was.

[187] And I was like, bring up his weight.

[188] And they're like, yeah.

[189] And I'm like, I would never do that.

[190] They're like, of course you would do that.

[191] Like, you've done it.

[192] You do it for shooey.

[193] Yes, but when you have a guest, coming.

[194] into your so to speak living room you're going to treat that i'm not going to go off on my guess but then again i did do that too so like everything that i'm accused of i get it like it's just in the moment you're like i'm not that kind of person but when you look at it you're like oh i see how i came across i am so glad you just said all that because it just reminded me of the very second thing i thought when i first did your show and it came true and i um had so i went to do your show and i was like what are the easy things to make fun of about me well my girlfriend's more famous than me and i was was there, I think, the first time to promote this movie went in Rome that Kristen and I both did.

[195] And I'm like, I guarantee she's going to make, like, imply I got the role because of Kristen.

[196] And fucking A, you did.

[197] I did.

[198] Wow.

[199] And then I came right over the top and was like, well, didn't your boyfriend give you this show?

[200] One, that's a good comeback.

[201] And how terrible.

[202] Like, I came with that in the chamber.

[203] Yeah, but you should have.

[204] That's being prepared.

[205] But that all happened.

[206] And in that moment, I just felt this kinship to you that I think I've always felt for you, just observing you from the outside where I've thought, I think you and I have had some similar childhoods or something where we've always got one in the chamber.

[207] Yeah.

[208] And I kind of feel bad for both of us that we would need to have one in the chamber at all times.

[209] Yeah, well, that I know.

[210] It's a very, it's a very defense.

[211] Like, you know, you have this attitude.

[212] Like, I'm not ever nervous about, I guess not looking stupid, but like, I'm never worried about, like, me not having a quick enough, like, I don't get nervous about.

[213] Like, if somebody's an asshole.

[214] I want to go, like, Pierce Morgan's an asshole, you know.

[215] I went on his show and did, you know, and did an interview with him knowing he was an asshole, knowing he disrespects women and like, you know, interrupts you.

[216] But I like that challenge because it's fun for me. It gets me fired up so I can go off on somebody.

[217] Yeah.

[218] It's perfect foil.

[219] You're like, great, I'll be there at three.

[220] And again, that in itself is a unique characteristic.

[221] We were just flying home from San Antonio and I got into a fight with a good friend of mine about fucking the legal system, right?

[222] And I was getting real hot and Monica like kicked my foot like hey p .S you're getting a little you know loud for this flight and uh and then during the you know the next day we talked about and I'm like I I hate to admit this I actually enjoy that zone sometimes I get it so infrequently because I'm surrounded by all women and I would be a fucking monster to be yelling and stuff at them so yeah like locking horns with this friend of mine who's you know I kind of liked it yeah I there are a lot of people who really are conflict avoiders.

[223] I'm a conflict.

[224] Like, I embrace conflict.

[225] I embrace it a lot last now that I've seen a proper psychiatrist and dealt with my childhood shit, which is what my entire book is about my therapy.

[226] I would use the word journey, but I hate that word so much because The Bachelor ruined it so many years ago.

[227] But you realize there's a reason you like conflict.

[228] But there's also, I hate being somebody who doesn't, you know, stand up for something or like if my two friends are in a fight, I like to take sides.

[229] I like to go, you're wrong.

[230] and you're right.

[231] Like I like...

[232] Levy a verdict.

[233] Like, you know, when your friend's like, hey, I need you to say something to that person.

[234] And I'm like, great, I'll do it.

[235] And now, as I'm getting older, I realize, and now, because I saw a shrink, that worked, helped me a lot.

[236] I realize, oh, it's not your place.

[237] You don't have to tell everybody all the time what they're doing wrong.

[238] Who the fuck am I to tell people?

[239] And they don't, not everybody deserves your honesty.

[240] It's like, you save that for the people in your life that are very important to you.

[241] Yeah, yeah.

[242] Yeah, I have a mantra I started, which is literally sometimes I have to be shouting it in my head, which is your opinion's not required here.

[243] Your opinion's not required here.

[244] Like, all the other people in the world are getting by just fine when I'm not there.

[245] So why do I think when I'm there it's crucial I defend this person or, you know what I'm saying?

[246] Yeah, yeah.

[247] I think mine is pretty transparent in that I had a lot of stepdad's or a lot of new people that had a new program that I had to follow quite often.

[248] and I was too young or too smaller to physically and capable to defend my mom or, you know, I will not be a part of your terrible plan and your bad idea and your fucking bad judgment.

[249] I won't be a party to it.

[250] You won't be taking advantage of it.

[251] Yeah, I was molested.

[252] I won't be, I will not trust, you know, I won't let you fucking abuse my trust.

[253] So, and it's preposterous, like you're saying, this is shit that I'm now 44.

[254] And I'm like, really, that's.

[255] We're both 44.

[256] I know, I'm a month in 23.

[257] three days older than you.

[258] Oh, wow, but who's counting?

[259] Me. Fucking weird, Monica, now?

[260] Yeah, I know.

[261] So your birthday is in January second.

[262] You did pass math.

[263] Yeah.

[264] Well, he did help on.

[265] No, I didn't.

[266] No, I didn't.

[267] Man, you crunched those numbers like a goddamn calculator.

[268] He really likes fast math, so that was really impressive.

[269] Thank you.

[270] I'm also a really good speller, so hit me whatever you read it.

[271] But isn't it funny, though, when I'm in that zone, I have a whole narrative, which is like, no, there's justice.

[272] and I'm in a position to defend and all these things, definitely not what the fuel in the tank is for that.

[273] Right.

[274] For me. Yeah.

[275] You know?

[276] Agreed.

[277] I think, yeah, it feels a lot cooler, like, learning how to sit back and not insert yourself.

[278] Like, I feel a lot cooler.

[279] I think also when you host a show, it's, there's so much, you feel there's so much instilled pressure to always insert yourself, to always keep it moving, to make it funny, to make a joke, to make light of something, to make fun of something, to, you know.

[280] Yeah.

[281] And, like, that.

[282] can become kinetic and it can become your way of life and if you do a show and you're you know on for 10 years you start to be on all the time yeah yeah and i wanted to be off i was like so over myself so i think we all go through phases where we start to like grow up a little bit more and realize like less is more the more i like myself the less of those other things i even care about all these things that i think are pillars of what i care about magically i don't really care all that much about them like on the days i like myself you know i'm like i can roll with a bad driver and i can roll with a shitty fucking person at work and all these things right exactly yeah so i i just i'm i'm now realizing it's it's all me if i can get this thing like running tip top i don't really have many problems i can just see things for what they're oh that person's scared and then that person's this yeah right you know makes you feel much more sagacious too you're like oh wow well now i just came i just actually orgasm what was the first one can't even remember?

[283] A sculpatory.

[284] A sculpatory.

[285] That was good.

[286] We should maybe keep a list.

[287] Of Chelsea's words.

[288] I'm already writing it all down.

[289] Don't worry.

[290] My assistance outside the window.

[291] Wait, one thing.

[292] I think the interesting thing is the person who really has the power is the one that knows they're being taken advantage of, quote, taking advantage of, and not care.

[293] Like Kristen, Bell, always, like, knows, oh, that person thinks they're doing this.

[294] But I don't care.

[295] Because I'm better than that, really.

[296] So, like, to not care and to not fight back is actually, you actually have more power.

[297] It's kind of aspirational, yeah.

[298] Yeah, she is.

[299] Yeah, yeah.

[300] She sounds, I listened to your interview once driving up to Lake Bass, the one that you did with Kristen.

[301] And you were happy you didn't get married.

[302] I was.

[303] I thought it was really, I thought it was very brave that you put that out there.

[304] And that you didn't care that everyone heard you guys just bickering for an hour, basically.

[305] And what a control freak I was in that whole thing.

[306] But, I mean, I think that kind of honestly, like, I, you know, I think that's important.

[307] I mean, it's also good for people to hear because everybody thinks that their only things are happening to them in their life.

[308] You know what I mean?

[309] And it's relatable.

[310] Or even worse, that, like, you're going to bump into somebody and they're your missing piece.

[311] And then that'll be it.

[312] Like, you'll just now be on honeymoon for the next 20 years.

[313] Like, even this thing you guys think is so cute is, like, a ton of fucking work.

[314] You know, we don't wake up in the mood to just get.

[315] along all day long.

[316] That happens maybe one in 20 days.

[317] Yeah, it's almost unethical for you to do the Samsung commercial and then not air it.

[318] Like, you have to balance that out.

[319] Right.

[320] No, but back to childhood because the other fun thing, not only are we born within, you know, just mere days of each other, your dad was a car, you owned a used car lot?

[321] Well, a lot is an exaggeration.

[322] It's more like a driveway.

[323] Okay.

[324] And it was the driveway in front of our house.

[325] So I don't think he really, like, He fancied himself a used car dealer, but, like, they didn't, there wasn't a lot of turnover.

[326] Like, the cars would come in and then just be there.

[327] But there wasn't a lot of selling, of course.

[328] There was a lot of collectors.

[329] Sure.

[330] There's, he loved finding a good deal that he was certain he could.

[331] Really embarrassing.

[332] Okay, but my dad sold cars my whole life.

[333] The, the kind of education I got from him about the world, I think, was dramatically shaped by the fact that he had that job.

[334] Yes.

[335] Like you're saying, yeah.

[336] Scheister.

[337] He was, my dad was a shyster.

[338] Well, he was.

[339] He was dishonest.

[340] Well, right.

[341] Here's what I was, the way I was going to dress it up was my dad's only moral imperative was make money.

[342] Like that was the moral imperative.

[343] Like, fucking make money and then you're set.

[344] That's what life's about.

[345] So by hook or crook, whatever you got to do, just fucking make that money.

[346] And I just wondered if that was kind of synonymous in the used car game.

[347] Yeah, I think if you're a used car dealer, things probably just didn't work out the way you thought they were going to because no one grows up and says, I want to sell used car.

[348] I mean, maybe you want to sell cars.

[349] but you don't set out to sell used ones.

[350] Right.

[351] You know, that's not a goal.

[352] Although that is where all the profit is, by the way.

[353] It's kind of like dentists.

[354] You're like, well, is this really your passion or did medical school not work out?

[355] Sure.

[356] Because who really wants to go into somebody's mouth and clean out a cavity?

[357] That can't be like what drives you.

[358] It's a responsible career and it's a good career choice because you can make money.

[359] But is it, it just feels, you know.

[360] Or unintended.

[361] Sure, sure, sure.

[362] Or like a fallback.

[363] to all the dentists out there.

[364] I just want you to know how much I appreciate.

[365] Oh, I've already gotten in trouble with Dennis because we talk about how much they commit suicide and that, you know, people are at a very high rate.

[366] I'm in trouble with the veterinarian committee.

[367] Oh, I mean, community.

[368] Congratulations.

[369] Thank you.

[370] What did you do?

[371] Well, I guess I will be in trouble because the book's not out yet, but I talk a lot in the books about how vets really just don't have any, like, concrete information for you.

[372] You know, every time you rescue a dog, they're between four and 12.

[373] Like it's a big margin of error Or they say Oh we have she has an infection And we're going to remove all of our teeth And then you say well why would you remove all of their teeth Like I mean she's got to have to chew Can't we keep some of them?

[374] And like and the woman on the phone She's like well we're going to remove the ones that are infected I'm like right so what if they're not all infected And she goes well we'll see when we get in there Like you know what don't I take you my dog to my own fucking dentist Forget about it What if she goes we'll see when we get them out Yeah First we'll remove them And then we'll put them through a battery of tests and then we'll know pretty certainly.

[375] Right.

[376] I have a separate but adjacent pet peeve, which is, and look, I couldn't be a bigger proponent of rescuing dogs.

[377] I think it's awesome.

[378] My wife is rescued a trillion dogs.

[379] But every fucking person who I meet who has rescued a dog, it's always, yeah, she was being abused.

[380] Every single person's rescued dog was abused.

[381] And I just want to know functionally, how would you know that information?

[382] Were you observing the dog?

[383] in its last home?

[384] How is this even known?

[385] The dogs tell them.

[386] Apparently the dogs tell them, but it does seem that about 98 % of people rescued dogs, they were, they rescued them from an abusive relationship.

[387] Yeah, because what people do is they turn their dogs in and say, hey, I'm abusing this dog.

[388] Will you take it to me?

[389] Yeah.

[390] But did dad have a worldview that, that, um, you could maybe sum up for me?

[391] He was, you know, my dad fans, my dad was, is he still alive?

[392] No, he died last year, actually, a few months ago, actually.

[393] But he was old and he needed to die.

[394] Like he's, it was like there was no quality of life.

[395] He was in a whole age home.

[396] And, I mean, I'm glad he's gone because that was no way to live.

[397] And, you know, you don't want to remember people at their worst.

[398] You want to remember them at their best.

[399] And my mom had a long, slow death.

[400] So that wasn't ideal.

[401] She was really sick.

[402] My dad wasn't.

[403] He just was in a home, like, you know.

[404] But my, his philosophy, I mean, he was dishonest.

[405] He was kind of in love with himself.

[406] Like, he thought highly of himself.

[407] He loved that he had so many children because it meant he was, you know, masculine.

[408] And he was very kind of, He was a little chauvinistic, but he was, like, filled with a lot of life.

[409] We had a really great time growing up.

[410] There was a lot of drama and trauma because my brother died when I was a little girl, so that was bad.

[411] But my dad really never recovered from that after my brother died.

[412] He just kind of lost his oomph.

[413] You're such a fun guest because, like, yeah, a couple of things I want to bring up is like, yeah, at nine, what is that like when your brother dies and what does that do to the whole family?

[414] And then I'm thinking, like, oh, eventually I have to tiptoe around.

[415] And then you're just like, here it is.

[416] but which I applaud and I love about you um but but I got to say this I watched a few minutes of your marriage documentary I had watched the drugs one a long time ago and I loved it it's so so good by the way thank you I watched the marriage one uh just today and I watch dad walk in the kitchen and you're like hi is that you he says is that you and then yeah it's me and then he goes I love you.

[417] And then he goes, I miss you.

[418] To me, I heard like, oh, guilt, guilt, guilt, you're not around enough.

[419] Like, that's something my dad would have.

[420] It would have been like, I love you, but then there would have been just one word that I knew what meant, which was like, you're not around enough.

[421] And then was mom the love of your life?

[422] And then he won't cop to that.

[423] Right.

[424] And I was like, there's so much happening within four sentences of this interaction that for me feels familiar.

[425] Yeah, my like, is mom the love of your life?

[426] He's like, I'm a love of my life?

[427] I don't know about that.

[428] Yeah, I don't know about that.

[429] You've been talking about moms and she died like every day.

[430] You know, we talk about like my mother and Rita and then we ask him the question straight out and he's like, no, I'm not sure if she was the love of my life.

[431] I mean, that was why that's totally my dad, you know, like can't commit.

[432] He intentionally wanted to marry a non -American.

[433] Uh -huh, and a non -Jew because he wanted a Shiksa because my grandmother was like, you know, a mean Jewish bitch.

[434] And she was like, listen.

[435] And his father was like, listen, don't marry one of these Jewish women.

[436] They're going to drive you nuts.

[437] You got married a Gentile.

[438] And I grew up thinking my mom was Jewish for the first 10 years of my life.

[439] I didn't learn that she wasn't until my brother died.

[440] And they had to bury him in a Jewish cemetery.

[441] And then the whole family has to get plots or whatever.

[442] And it was revealed to me that my mother was Mormon at that time.

[443] From Germany, no less.

[444] Yeah, there was a big Mormon contingency in Germany.

[445] So I found out she was Mormon.

[446] And I didn't know what Mormon was.

[447] And then, you know, that wasn't something that I was going to be interested in, even at nine.

[448] And she just obviously put that on the back burner when she married your father.

[449] Yeah.

[450] She came over, like, after the war.

[451] And, you know, not, I mean, long after the war.

[452] But like, it was a, it was a sensitive subject for a Jewish, or a Jewish guy to marry her.

[453] So she said, yeah, we'll raise all the kids Jewish, no problem.

[454] Once my brother died, she was like, fuck this.

[455] I'm going back to my religion.

[456] And she became a woman.

[457] And she converted my sister to become Mormon as well.

[458] Oh, really?

[459] Did she try to convert you?

[460] Yeah, they had me read the book of Mormon, and then I just was like, this is so stupid.

[461] Right.

[462] This is not how I want to live my life, accepting Jesus Christ.

[463] You didn't believe that Jesus was born in the United States?

[464] No, no, no, I did not believe that.

[465] No disrespect to Mormons, but that is one of the more amusing aspects that he was born in Missouri.

[466] Did you read under the banner of heaven?

[467] I didn't read that book, no. But I've heard about that book.

[468] You know, he's receiving, Joseph Smith's receiving a lot.

[469] of revelations from God and he will disperse them to the parishioners as they come in.

[470] And he's starting to sleep with many members of the group that follow him.

[471] And now some of the revelations are specifically about his wife.

[472] And God said to me last night, Mary, stay out of my business.

[473] They started getting like many of the early revelations are directed directly at his wife basically saying, you just stay out of his business and let him handle it.

[474] Anywho, that's comedically pretty juicy.

[475] But when I was watching Dad and I was thinking, oh, he, you know, he got a gal from Germany in this, it is a technique for some men to kind of withhold approval, withhold affection, withhold these things to maybe keep self -esteem a little low because you don't think you're worthy of this.

[476] So maybe if that person feels shittier about themselves, I look good in comparison.

[477] I'm reading a lot into it.

[478] But when I heard maybe not the level of my life, I just said, I thought, oh, that's a technique.

[479] Yeah, that was weird for me to hear, too, because my dad would go on and on about my mom, like, our whole lives.

[480] And even after she died, so when he did say that in that interview, it was like, what are you talking about?

[481] Who you playing up for?

[482] Yeah, so I don't know what that was about.

[483] But, like, but my dad is, he was very manipulative, like he wasn't, I didn't like the way he conducted himself.

[484] He wasn't honest.

[485] He wasn't fair.

[486] He would, people were marginalized in his life.

[487] Like, you know, if we had a guy working at the house, you know, the guy would be waiting outside to be paid, say he was doing yard work and my dad would be like if he wants some money he can knock on the door and it's like the guys you know like that kind of shit that made me sick growing up and I was like I don't ever want to be a dishonest or cheat or lie you know what I mean like I want to be and I wanted to be independent so I never had to rely on a man yeah because that was my father and that was what men looked like and the other issue was that my brother died when he was nine and swore to me like on our last night you know uh that he was coming back and he and he's like I will never leave you with these crazy people referring to my parents.

[488] He was the oldest and I was the youngest.

[489] So we were bookends in a way.

[490] And there's six of you?

[491] Yeah.

[492] And so he was like my first crush.

[493] And Monica, he went hiking in the grand teetons in Jackson Hole, right?

[494] Yeah.

[495] And then he fell off a cliff.

[496] Oh my gosh.

[497] That was pretty brutal.

[498] And until I met this psychiatrist who I actually interviewed on my Netflix show for an episode on like early education and adolescent brain development.

[499] He explained to me that like, you know, when something like that happens when you're nine years old, you get stuck.

[500] You're stunted from that age because you have to wrap yourself up so you don't feel the pain.

[501] My father fell apart.

[502] My mother fell apart.

[503] Everyone just retreated into their own corners.

[504] And until somebody said, you, as a nine -year -old, you, you digested that as rejection.

[505] He rejected you.

[506] He went off and found another family.

[507] Well, he cared about something more than you.

[508] He valued this trip weirdly more than you, right?

[509] And he wasn't careful.

[510] He wasn't carefully.

[511] He told me he was going to come back and he lied to me. So in my nine -year -old head, that was, oh, you can never trust men.

[512] They will always lie to you.

[513] Even though I was like, it's so obvious.

[514] But yet until you do that work and, like, kind of talk to someone who's a professional and studies that, I didn't realize I was acting like a nine -year -old with regard to any men.

[515] So back to what we were talking about in the beginning, how men are fucking scared of me. Because I'm fucking scared of them.

[516] Yeah.

[517] You know?

[518] 100%.

[519] So it's rejection before you get rejected, which is obviously like class A, whatever.

[520] you know, typical textbook behavior, but it helps to hear it from someone that has nothing to do with your life.

[521] Because I think, you know, for me, I never wanted to go to therapy and really dig it up because I thought I was too smart.

[522] I'm like, that's not, I know my brother died.

[523] I know I have problems.

[524] But whatever, it's working.

[525] I'm strong.

[526] You know, I've got my shit together.

[527] I've got a career.

[528] I've got everything I wanted in my life, my friends, my family, blah, blah, blah.

[529] And it is a cliche, especially, you know, to hit 40 and all of a sudden go, what the fuck is going on?

[530] Why am I acting like this, but it was so worthwhile to, like, actually have a professional that you're paying.

[531] You know what I mean?

[532] Because I like that exchange.

[533] I don't want to burden people with my problems.

[534] I want somebody to get money for it.

[535] Yeah, 100%.

[536] So that was, it's exactly what you're saying.

[537] We do have a lot in common because it's, it's about unearthing that and saying like, okay, and now, you know, a year of like really hardcore therapy and I was like, okay, now I need a break.

[538] I got it.

[539] I got my problems.

[540] Yeah, yeah.

[541] You know, and now I need to retreat.

[542] understand everything I've learned and change my behavior so that it's not as in your face and not as like nail scratchy, you know, and be softer and more gentler and actually like, look to find somebody in this life.

[543] Yes, I do want a boyfriend.

[544] It's okay to say that.

[545] Before it was embarrassing to say I want a boyfriend, you know?

[546] Right.

[547] I don't want kids.

[548] I still don't want that.

[549] And I'm not embarrassed by that.

[550] I know that I just, it's not a good use of my time, but it's okay to admit that you want to be in a relationship.

[551] And before, that was just like, that to me, reeked of weakness.

[552] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[553] We've all been there.

[554] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[555] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[556] Like the unexplainable death, of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[557] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[558] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[559] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[560] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[561] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[562] What's up, guys?

[563] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[564] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[565] And I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[566] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[567] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[568] Well, it's all very, very tricky, right?

[569] Because if you establish a checklist of if I get that and I get this and I end up here and I have this amount of money and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[570] So all these characteristics, sure, I get it.

[571] They're from trauma.

[572] Big deal.

[573] They're getting me this list.

[574] And then the worst thing that could ever happen to you is you could obtain everything on the list, right?

[575] And then go, oh, this is curious.

[576] I still don't feel good.

[577] And I guess the goal isn't to get the shit on the list.

[578] the goal is to like enjoy this ride like if you have all the shit and you're in pain and discomfort and agony who gives a flying fuck well so many people are like well you know money money can't buy you happiness and it's like well it fucking helps okay like successful it's you're mood yeah i mean and i'm not a depressive i've never had depression so you know knock on wood i like i know that's a serious issue that i'm grateful that i don't have so it's hard to recognize what your issues are until you stop spinning so fast, you know?

[579] For me, it was just move, move, move, work, work, work.

[580] Do a tour, do a show, do a book, do this, do that.

[581] And that the emptiness became, everything just became so fast.

[582] And I was missing my own shit, you know?

[583] And it wasn't until really, like, until the election that I really freaked me out and, like, really shook me so hard.

[584] And when I went to go talk to, you know, a professional about my outrage that I felt, it was like, okay, this outrage, yes, Donald Trump's, awful and, you know, should not be our president.

[585] But this is so deep.

[586] This is an inside job is what I learned.

[587] That my outrage, he doesn't have to affect my mood.

[588] He doesn't have to ruin my life.

[589] I have deeper issues that I need to un, you know.

[590] Also owning the fact that, like, you're giving permission for that person to have that effect on you.

[591] Yeah, I lost a year of my, I mean, I had gained a year of my life in a sense, but I lost a year of my life because I couldn't even work.

[592] I couldn't do anything, but watch the news.

[593] And what that represented to me was my.

[594] my childhood being out of control because like the world's a good place.

[595] We are in America.

[596] The adults will take care of the political stuff.

[597] And we just have to keep cashing our checks.

[598] You know, it didn't realize like, oh, I'm not really looking outside of my own lane.

[599] I'm not thinking about what it's like to be, you know, a marginalized person in this world.

[600] I'm a woman, but I'm white.

[601] You know, I'm successful.

[602] I'm pretty.

[603] I got rewarded for bad behavior my entire career.

[604] Talking about guys, sleeping around, writing books about sleeping around.

[605] I mean, everything I did was rewarded.

[606] And why?

[607] Because I'm privileged.

[608] You know what I mean?

[609] I'm just fucking lucky.

[610] Yeah, yeah.

[611] Me too.

[612] I got a horseshoe up my ass.

[613] Back to mom.

[614] So did...

[615] Feels like therapy.

[616] That's what we do.

[617] The goal.

[618] It's the only thing I'm really interested in, to be honest with you.

[619] Like fucking motorcycles and like talking about feelings.

[620] Unless you want to go riding.

[621] You couldn't have been like super stoked mom was who she was.

[622] If you were aspiring to be a. a very vocal, you know, self -advocate.

[623] And mom, as you would learn, drops her religion, all these things.

[624] Was she a little bit of a disappointment in who you would have wanted her to be?

[625] My mom just was, like, very different from me, you know?

[626] She was very, like, shy and soft -spoken.

[627] She wasn't, like, she didn't understand where, like, how she even gave birth to me. You know, we're total opposites.

[628] I'm, like, a lot more like of my dad, like you are saying yourself.

[629] So my mom was just, I wasn't disappointed.

[630] I mean, I was disappointed in her in many ways because she never would show up.

[631] You know, they'd never pick me up from school or Hebrew school.

[632] They would leave me for hours.

[633] They did that to all of my brothers and sisters.

[634] So it wasn't like I was special in that regard.

[635] You're also on number six.

[636] Yes.

[637] Also, let's just acknowledge what a life she, if she came here in 58, she's like a four -year -old during World War II, right?

[638] Yes.

[639] I mean, what a fuck.

[640] Like, if she just ended up somewhere that had heat, it ain't all that bad.

[641] Like, it's not like she was giving up a church.

[642] chance to be a doctor and a great kind it's like fuck if she just landed somewhere where someone was like there was a house that's a big victory so i'm not judging at all yeah no no you can judge my mom i don't give a shit i mean i it's not i mean you know you i don't judge her in that way like but you want your parents to be someone you want to aspire to be one of my weirdest resentments about my dad is that i wanted him to be a guy i was trying to be like and then i wanted that guy who idolized to look at me and say you did it man i'm fucking proud of you i'm gonna hand this torch to you I mean, what a bizarre thing to have a resentment.

[643] He did say I'm proud of you, but I wanted it to come from a person I respected.

[644] That's right.

[645] I know that I had that feeling with my dad.

[646] I was very, you know, interested in impressing my father and having my father understand, like, that I was powerful and that I was strong.

[647] My mom just represented to me not a strong woman.

[648] Like, she wasn't on the deed for our house growing up.

[649] She never made the decisions.

[650] It was always my dad that was the boss.

[651] And I didn't want like that.

[652] You know, to me, it was like, okay, I had two examples.

[653] I mean, I have two other brothers, but they're, you know, my two biggest attachment figures were my father and my brother, and both of them took off.

[654] Right.

[655] So, I mean, my father was physically there, but it would have been better had he actually physically taken off maybe because he was just wrecked.

[656] And, you know, I think when a man loses their firstborn child, especially a son, I think that's a real, you don't get over it.

[657] Yeah.

[658] Ever.

[659] Yeah.

[660] And do you think he at any level had assigned some responsibility?

[661] responsibility to that that obviously he doesn't deserve.

[662] Did they butt heads and was your brother doing that as a fuck you, I'm not going to be like you and I'm going to go do this thing.

[663] Was he on some level aware of like, oh, this all was in retaliation of me and look where it led?

[664] No, my brother wasn't like that.

[665] My brother really played ball with my dad.

[666] He was like the second dad in our family.

[667] It's my other brothers that really rebelled.

[668] And like when, like he was the like the good son.

[669] You know what I mean?

[670] So when he died, it was like, you almost felt like, oh God, did they wish it was one of us.

[671] Right.

[672] I definitely was like, they probably want me to be gone, you know?

[673] Yeah.

[674] And I think everyone probably had that because you're a kid.

[675] You don't know any better, you know, you're not choosing who's dying, obviously.

[676] But it's just a, it's a fuck job.

[677] What, you know, death is agony.

[678] It is agony and it hits you and you cannot.

[679] It's, you know, you can't, you could, the only way through it is literally through it.

[680] You can't go around it because it creeps back up on you like any of our issues from our childhood.

[681] So, you know, I'm glad now that I have the ability and the vocabulary to articulate my pain instead of just pretending that everything's fine and getting through it with somebody, again, who I'm paying to get me through it.

[682] Right, right.

[683] You know, not a boyfriend or a friend who's like, shut the fuck up or everything.

[684] You can, like, give me a hundred bucks when you leave if it makes it all feel a little cleaner transactionally.

[685] So, as a result of this, childhood, what kind of kid are you in high school?

[686] Because I saw a picture of you.

[687] I guess it was in that episode, too, where I was like, oh, I knew that girl.

[688] Yeah, I was pretty bad.

[689] What does that mean?

[690] I need more detail.

[691] Well, her hair is fucking on point.

[692] Yeah, there's hairspray galore.

[693] She's a fox, and it also looks like this is going to be a party, so buckle up.

[694] Like you were a party probably in eighth grade, yeah?

[695] I was a party in eighth grade.

[696] I actually, I ended up leaving.

[697] I went to high school in Summerville, New Jersey, and lived with one of my brothers for a year.

[698] Because after my brother died, my relationship with my father just went haywire.

[699] Oh, it did.

[700] And then I, you know, I was nine, and then I was, you know, 12.

[701] and then I wanted to, I couldn't take it.

[702] Yeah.

[703] You know, I grew up really fast.

[704] I mean, I didn't, I just didn't have any respect for authority when I was growing up because my authority figures, like, as I said, were just not reliable.

[705] No one was reliable.

[706] So I was like, oh, this is up to me. I've got to make a life for myself.

[707] I was like, you know, at 12, I was like, I'm leaving.

[708] I'm going to go live with Glenn, my brother, who was away on business trips all the time.

[709] And I lived in a condo with him and I started dating this football player.

[710] I got pregnant.

[711] I was a fucking disaster.

[712] Not when I was 12.

[713] But, you know, like when I was 16, I was a fucking.

[714] disaster and my put my parents through hell and um you know and i mean my brothers and sisters to this day were like i can't believe they survived as long as they did with you because i just had no respect for them yeah do you think you were punishing them i was punishing my yes i think i was i didn't want my i i i was embarrassed about my family but what i really was was in pain about my brother but i couldn't talk about my brother because everyone else was falling apart and i never cried in front of anyone for like 15 years.

[715] If I cried about my brother, I had to go outside, go on my bike, and I'd go for a long ride.

[716] And if anyone in my family said anything about my brother, I'd leave the house.

[717] I was like, I'm not going to be weak like you people.

[718] Right.

[719] You know, I saw my dad crumble and cry every day.

[720] Like, you'd walk by their bedroom and they'd be like bawling together in the morning.

[721] And I'd be like, oh, these fucking bastards, when are they going to get their shit together?

[722] Yeah, like just kill yourself too.

[723] I need you.

[724] I need you.

[725] I need to someone.

[726] Right.

[727] Right.

[728] Buck up and fucking straighten out for a second.

[729] And sometimes, you know, until you say those things out loud with someone, you don't, you forget them.

[730] You know, when somebody talks to you and has the time that you put in, like, you know, my psychiatrist is like, this is your mental gym.

[731] I want you to think of this is because I'm so into being physically strong that I want to be mentally strong because the two go together.

[732] And once he said, this is like your mental gym, I was like, okay, I'm committed.

[733] Like, I get that analogy.

[734] But it takes a long time to understand that.

[735] It takes a long time to, like, to understand the vulnerability is, like, strength.

[736] Yes.

[737] Like, baller fucking, yeah.

[738] I've heard a million great interviews on Howard Stern, but the one that was, blew my mind the most is Jason Ellis, who's got his own show on XM.

[739] Yeah.

[740] He went on Stern and talked about his father molested him his whole life, and he still loves his dad.

[741] And this is a dude with a shaved head who fights MMA, tattoos everywhere, ex -pro skateboarder, and for an hour and a half said, yeah, let's talk about that.

[742] and went through the whole thing.

[743] Never have I seen something as brave as that.

[744] I mean, that is like jumping the Grand Canyon to be able to do that.

[745] Does he still have a relationship with him?

[746] Yeah, I think it's a bizarre.

[747] No, his father ultimately died competing with his other brother hiking up a mountain.

[748] I couldn't accept that he was 65 and literally blew his heart up trying to like prove he could be just as fast.

[749] But anywho, when I heard him say that, I was like, oh, that's what a real badass is.

[750] That's like, that's fucking John Wayne.

[751] A dude who could go out in public and say, yeah, my dad.

[752] And that blows my mind.

[753] I don't understand that.

[754] Yeah.

[755] I don't understand how you could want a relationship with somebody who violated you like that.

[756] I don't know.

[757] But, you know, again, like, none of us know what the fuck that's like unless it happens to you, you know.

[758] And so it's just so, you know, it's easy for us to give advice to other people or be like, how could you talk to that person?

[759] And we don't know what everybody's story is.

[760] Yeah, yeah.

[761] But the headline is to me more like, wow, look at the power of that familial bond that we desire.

[762] Like if you need a case study of how much we need that, here's the guy who's abused forever who's still desiring that.

[763] Holy shit, we need that thing.

[764] David Tell has a good joke when he says, goes, you're a little kid and you think your dad's Superman and then you grow up and realize he's just an asshole wearing a cape.

[765] And I always am like, oh, yeah, because, you know, we grow up and we find out it's like meeting somebody you really admire and then totally.

[766] disappointing you.

[767] Yeah, yeah.

[768] That's, that generally is the, high percentage that'll happen.

[769] That happens a lot.

[770] But, so were you able, though, to juggle some balls?

[771] Were you like, I can juggle balls?

[772] You can juggle.

[773] I can juggle your balls right now.

[774] Were you able to also, like, maintain okay grades and stuff while you were still being a good time?

[775] Yeah, I mean, I always got by.

[776] I mean, I wasn't doing well.

[777] And I definitely lost a year of credit for school in my, like, junior year of high school.

[778] So then I had to go back to Livingston, New Jersey, where I was from with my parents.

[779] My parents were like, okay, you can't live with Glenn.

[780] You just lost a credit.

[781] I never went to school.

[782] I just took my brother's car, drove it around town, probably was smoking weed.

[783] Sure.

[784] You know, I wasn't really drinking at that age.

[785] But then...

[786] How young were you when you had sex the first time?

[787] Young.

[788] Six, 15, 14, 14?

[789] Yeah, okay.

[790] I think it was my first year of high school.

[791] And I wanted to make sure everybody knew I had arrived.

[792] Sure.

[793] No, but I had an older boyfriend that wasn't in that.

[794] high school and when I was 14 and he was a lawyer he was no exactly it was Paul Manafort no I uh I had yeah I got I lost my virginity when I was young but again like I don't blame that on any person man I blame that on you know I wanted an older boyfriend I wanted to like get serious about where my life was headed when I was done with my family because my whole thing was like get away from my family so I can my life can begin sure and then you know once I was away from my family.

[795] I realized how much I loved them and that they were, everyone was just trying to do the best that they could.

[796] I mean, maybe not the best, but everybody was trying to get by.

[797] They minimally had good intentions, whether the execution was good or not.

[798] My anger was abated greatly when I, when I was able to just move to California.

[799] And then I, and then I was like, oh, yeah, my family is not so bad.

[800] Yeah, yeah.

[801] You meet all these fucking neck cases out here.

[802] And so many people don't even talk to their relatives that I was like, I don't want to be like that.

[803] That's not my goal.

[804] But.

[805] But you graduated.

[806] Yeah.

[807] So anyway, I ended up going back to.

[808] Livingston.

[809] I had to go to this thing called alternative school so I could complete two years for like, you know, criminals.

[810] Complete two years of education in one.

[811] So I finished my junior and senior year in one year to graduate on time and then I hightailed it out to L .A. Could you smoke cigarettes at that school?

[812] I don't think I smoked cigarettes at that point.

[813] But could other students?

[814] Because my best friend, Aaron Winkley, he went to an alternative high school.

[815] And one of the ways they like got, they realized like, well, I have the reason these guys are skipping schools, they just want to smoke cigarettes.

[816] So you could fucking smoke.

[817] smoke cigarettes in the classroom.

[818] Oh, no. We couldn't smoke cigarettes in the classroom, but that sounds like, that sounds like, that kind of progressive.

[819] Yeah, yeah.

[820] I kind of embrace this whole thing.

[821] It'll progress you towards lung cancer quite rapidly.

[822] Like, that is a good idea for people like that who aren't going to graduate.

[823] Like, they should be, you know, whatever you got to get them to sit still.

[824] Right.

[825] Let them sit in a hot tub, kill darts.

[826] You masturbate.

[827] Circle to each other, as long as they like grab some of that information.

[828] But so when you looked around at your classmates at the alternative high school, Were you embarrassed that that's where you had ended up?

[829] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[830] I didn't want anything to do with any of those people.

[831] I was like, okay, losers, I'm not - I'm not in jail.

[832] Actually, my boyfriend, Tyshawn, was his name, the black guy that I got pregnant with.

[833] I was, I hung out with him in Somerville, New Jersey, where my brother lived.

[834] So we got arrested a couple times when I was, he got arrested.

[835] I never got arrested because I'm white.

[836] And he was black, and he got arrested three times.

[837] And he had a full scholarship to UNLV or, one of those basketball schools.

[838] I think it was UNLV.

[839] Yeah.

[840] And his whole life, you know, was derailed.

[841] So I actually reunited.

[842] Were they, like, possession charges?

[843] Yeah, like, he got, you know, he was caught with weed.

[844] And then he was put in the system and then he was caught with weed again.

[845] Meanwhile, you know, he was just trying to like, he wasn't a bad guy.

[846] He just got, you know, they were looking for him to fuck up and people aren't looking for, you know, white girl.

[847] Every time we were together and we got arrested or he got arrested, they told me I was, they're like, you can go, get out of here.

[848] And then they would arrest him.

[849] Oh, my.

[850] Yeah.

[851] So I just did a documentary for Netflix.

[852] on white privilege, and we went and met him, Tachshan, who I haven't seen since I was 16, I'm 40, I just turned 44, so that was fucking weird.

[853] Wow.

[854] And on camera, which is so, oh, I was like, oh, my God, my vagina hurts just, like, thinking about how nervous I was.

[855] Like, it was just, I didn't want to do it, but I knew I had to for, like, the film.

[856] Yeah.

[857] How did he hold up looks wise?

[858] Well, he spent the next 14 years incarcerated, so he's only been out of jail for three years.

[859] Oh, my God.

[860] He's got five different children with five different women.

[861] Oh.

[862] He's not dealing drugs anymore.

[863] Yeah.

[864] So, yeah, so anyway, the documentary was on white privilege, you know, and we, and I was like, okay, and so they became a very personal story where I was just going to explore the topic of white privilege and see, like, we went to the South, of course, and talked to people.

[865] And we went, and the thing about white privilege is, like, white people don't want to talk about it because, you know, and it's our problem.

[866] It's not like we can expect people of color to fix our privilege.

[867] We have to fix it.

[868] Yeah.

[869] So it was an interesting subject matter, but it ended up getting very personal.

[870] And then I was like, oh, my God, why do I keep having to fucking see my ex -boyfriends on camera?

[871] Yeah.

[872] Like, I keep doing these documentaries where the director's like, you know, it would be interesting.

[873] And I'm like, I don't have any other boyfriends who are willing to speak to me. So stop.

[874] Leave me alone.

[875] Leave me alone.

[876] Yeah, but at a certain point, do you question like, well, clearly I'm manifesting this?

[877] It's not like.

[878] Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty much up for anything as long as it is on camera.

[879] Like, I will, there are things I will do on camera that I wouldn't do privately.

[880] Like, if there's a camera there and I think it's a learning experience and that I can like, and that a million other people, you know, might have the same, like, ayahuasca, I was happy to do on camera, because I know people are so curious about that.

[881] They sure are.

[882] So it's, it's, you know.

[883] I was really bummed that you didn't shit yourself or throw up.

[884] Me too.

[885] I know.

[886] I threw up.

[887] I threw up.

[888] Oh, you did.

[889] My shaman shit himself like three times.

[890] He did it for the both of us.

[891] And didn't even bother going to the bathroom.

[892] The whole fucking room smelled like shit.

[893] Oh, my God.

[894] And like this little like, like, tent in Peru.

[895] And I'm like, fuck, I can't even get out of here because there's fucking anacondas everywhere.

[896] Okay.

[897] I don't think of myself as a prima don't know.

[898] But when I was watching that episode, I'm like, yeah, sign me up to do ayahuasca.

[899] I'm so curious, you know, of course I can't, but I would, if I was - You know, a lot of people do it to get sober.

[900] I've heard that, yeah.

[901] But I guess - And that's great.

[902] Look, I'm in favor of however people get sober.

[903] Regardless, I do wish I had done ayahuasca because I want to have done everything on planet Earth before I leave.

[904] So I watched that episode with great curiosity.

[905] And I was like, God bless you because the first warning is you're likely to shoot your, no, let's back up.

[906] When you go into that fucking tent.

[907] I'm like, I want nothing to do with that tent right out of the gates.

[908] It's not like I live at the four seasons, but I'm like, just knowing that this is a communal area where most people shit themselves, I don't want to be in there at all.

[909] I was already having so much anxiety, just of the setting, were you at all going like, okay, so this is where this is all going to go down.

[910] And they're telling me there's a toilet over there.

[911] I'm assuming the previous users of the toilet weren't like in a great space when they used it.

[912] Do you have any of that stuff?

[913] You know, I'm not into being in Peru as a general.

[914] I mean, I've been there like too many times.

[915] Actually, I've been there three, two or three times and two or three too many, depending on how many times I've actually been there.

[916] But I think once I get into the, like once I know what I'm doing, like I'm open to anything.

[917] I like to be, you know, out of my comfort zone.

[918] That's when I'm comfortable when I don't know what the fuck is happening.

[919] When everything's produced and planned is when I don't like it.

[920] I don't like sticking to a script.

[921] I don't like pre -production.

[922] I don't like talking about things ad nauseum.

[923] I like things to be impromptu, and like, so that kind of gets my juices flowing.

[924] Well, you've got to get into survival mode, right?

[925] Yeah.

[926] I don't make great jokes during massages, you know what I'm saying?

[927] It's like, dad's dying.

[928] Ooh, I thought of a great one.

[929] Right.

[930] Yeah, yeah.

[931] So you go in there.

[932] I mean, I'm not really good with like shit.

[933] So I was hoping that that wouldn't happen and it didn't.

[934] I don't care about vomit.

[935] I can deal with that.

[936] Okay.

[937] But feculent, like, you know, like this shit.

[938] Yeah.

[939] It makes me nauseous.

[940] And so when he was shitting.

[941] in front of me, my eyes were closed and I was like, just don't open your eyes.

[942] Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[943] He was just...

[944] He's just shitting in his pants.

[945] No, no. Yeah, he just shot in his pants that he had on.

[946] Three times.

[947] Yeah, and a friend of ours recently reached out to me, she's like, I saw your ayahuasca episode.

[948] Like, can we, can we, is there any way we can hook up, you know, with that, can you get that information of that shaman in Peru and the lodge you stayed in?

[949] And I was like, listen.

[950] That guy fucking shot his pants the entire time.

[951] And no one knows it because no one was in the way.

[952] that room with me except my camera woman, Nicola, who knows.

[953] Because the smell was out of hands.

[954] Oh, boy.

[955] But I got to tell you, I was so, like, I was in the moment and I had a great experience.

[956] And I didn't really do the cleanse before.

[957] They tell you not to drink for two weeks and not to eat certain foods.

[958] And I think they were right about that because I didn't, it didn't affect me the first night at all.

[959] And so I had to do it two nights in a row.

[960] And then the second time he gave me a double dosage.

[961] And that's what it all happened.

[962] But I was in my mode and I was like, just take everything you can get out of this moment and don't pay attention to the fact that he's shitting his pants.

[963] Don't let him ruin your fucking parade.

[964] Yeah, don't let some guy shit in his pants.

[965] Like, God forbid, it doesn't work again.

[966] I have to come back here tomorrow night.

[967] Yeah.

[968] Get into it.

[969] So if you could, so the first night, it just didn't work, but it was working for other people like Jenny was working for.

[970] Yeah, Jenny and Dan, my friend Dan did it with me. And they had crazy vomiting, shitting.

[971] They were like crying.

[972] Both of them were bawling.

[973] Yeah.

[974] They both were like overcome.

[975] You're overcome with love for, you know, if you're married, your wife, if you have children, your children.

[976] For me, it was my sister.

[977] And I was just, it's like this phantasmagora, sorry, I won't use another word like that.

[978] I know, I sound so much.

[979] No, no, you're supposed to.

[980] We're going to make a little list.

[981] Yeah, we love our phantasmagoria.

[982] Okay, it's like an iPod fast shuffle of you as a kid.

[983] You see all these memories of yourself.

[984] And every, all of us had the same childlike thing.

[985] You see yourself as a kid, but you're not in your body.

[986] above your body and you see like scenes playing out from your childhood and fast, like fast forward motion, like an iPod shuffle.

[987] Right.

[988] And it would just switch gears and it would go to me and my sister in our summer house and Martha's Vineyard on the water, laughing, you know, running on the beach, holding hands.

[989] There were dogs that we had as a child that I didn't remember.

[990] There were, you know, that were there.

[991] Like I was like, oh my God.

[992] I forgot about that dog.

[993] They were all real things.

[994] And they were all positive.

[995] Yeah.

[996] I didn't have anything negative.

[997] It was all positive.

[998] I thought for sure it was going to be my dead mom or my brother.

[999] I was like, okay, get ready.

[1000] Or snakes.

[1001] I have a huge phobia of snakes and we were in the fucking jungle.

[1002] So while you're watching your life virtually flashed before your eyes, you're overcome with the connectedness with the people in your life?

[1003] Or are you, is there any euphoria?

[1004] Is there a body buzz?

[1005] Like, what's going on physiologically?

[1006] You're very, everything feels good and positive light, in my experience, more of an overcome with happiness and love towards someone or something.

[1007] And then you want to, like, I was like, oh, I have to be nicer to my sister.

[1008] Like, my sister is, is not me. I keep, I'm so demanding of her, like, always, like, pushing her to do more to, you know, experience life to leave New Jersey.

[1009] And it was just an epiphany.

[1010] It was like, she doesn't want to fucking live in L .A. She's not me. She doesn't need attention.

[1011] You do.

[1012] She doesn't need this life.

[1013] You need it.

[1014] So it was a big epiphany in that sense.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] So that was the thing you walked away with.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] How long does it last?

[1019] Few hours.

[1020] Well, and then I had this voice.

[1021] So there's a, it's like, somebody's like telling you something.

[1022] And then at the very end of that, like it would switch gears and it said, there was this voice in my head saying you, everything doesn't, you don't have to surround yourself with so many people all the time.

[1023] You can be alone.

[1024] There's safety and being alone.

[1025] You can find joy by yourself.

[1026] And all I was thinking at that moment was like, I just want to go downstairs with my crew and have a drink.

[1027] Like, I tell them what just happened.

[1028] I already got the sister part.

[1029] I'm like, I don't need more shit.

[1030] I'm like, let's wrap this up.

[1031] It smells like fucking shit in here.

[1032] And then I thought, I was like, okay, I could lie here and I could experience this.

[1033] And or I could, you know, go down and share it.

[1034] And I was like, I just want to go be with my friends.

[1035] And so I went downstairs and I was like, all right, let me tell you what happened.

[1036] But it was, it was when I watched it back, I was like, oh, my God, because I look so peaceful and I'm crying.

[1037] But there are tears of joy.

[1038] You just overcome.

[1039] You want to love someone so much.

[1040] That's how you feel.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] Two thoughts during that.

[1043] One, can you imagine the level of self -esteem one would have to have to shit their pants and stay seated and stare right at you?

[1044] I can't imagine feeling that confident that I could just have full shit in my pants and not be humiliated and running away.

[1045] Like, I really admire this guy.

[1046] A lot of practice, I think.

[1047] You have to shit your pants a lot in front of people.

[1048] And A, and B, I think he was so fucking high out of his mind.

[1049] Sure.

[1050] What I took one of, he took three of.

[1051] Okay.

[1052] And I don't know that he found out about his pants until after the ceremony was over.

[1053] Okay.

[1054] All right.

[1055] Well, I guess, yeah.

[1056] So maybe I shouldn't applaud him that much.

[1057] My second thing I heard that I was like, oh, that's so me is while something's happening, I will almost shift gears into no longer experiencing it.

[1058] And I'm already transferring it to who I'm going to tell it to or who I'm going to include, right?

[1059] Or who I'm going to.

[1060] The story.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] Yeah, I guess just entertain or get some approval for, I don't know, but I, I have often kind of like missed the tail end of an experience because I've already shifted gears that are like, oh, I'm going to.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] You should read this book I just read called Essentialism.

[1065] It's really good.

[1066] You should read it too.

[1067] It's about doing two things really well instead of trying to do eight things mediocre, you know?

[1068] Oh, uh -huh.

[1069] And I respond to that because, you know, in this business, you're always trying to like move around and do this and you have a production company and you have this company and you do this and you have a weed line.

[1070] or whatever like it's just so much yeah and then the integrity of the work is so elevated when you really focus on like this book I just wrote in this documentary I just shot like these were this was the first time in my life I didn't have I wasn't running around with my head between my legs I actually sat down and was like you know what I have something to say now I am going to write another book I didn't want to write a book until I had something that was that was meaty or that had some oomph I don't want to just be silly and cash a check right I wanted to say something And so for me, that's a big lesson because we're always so busy and we always want to say yes and show up for people.

[1071] And there's a way to be better to yourself.

[1072] Well, and they've scientifically proven multitasking is a fallacy.

[1073] There's nobody's doing, you're just doing many things worse.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] It's not, it doesn't work.

[1076] They've done a trillion different studies and everything just slides, you know, downhill.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] And better to be fine two things that you want to excel at or three things.

[1079] or whatever your number is, you know, for me, like, I want to be an incredible skier.

[1080] I fucking love skiing.

[1081] I love it so much.

[1082] And I just want to be the best at it.

[1083] Like, not the best skier, but I want to be able to get down anything and never be scared of a mountain in my life.

[1084] When did this start?

[1085] Well, I started getting really into skiing about seven or eight years ago.

[1086] I grew up skiing, but I was never, like, great at it.

[1087] I'm still not.

[1088] But, well, I got hurt.

[1089] I tore my ACL skiing in Switzerland.

[1090] And I, after that I was so trepidacious on the mountain before I was fearless and I could do anything and after I hurt myself I was so scared and I remember a ski guide I go to Whistler every year with my family for Christmas and one of my ski guides was like you're he goes you're really scared now huh and when he said that I was like oh fuck you asshole I was like no fucking way and I made sure that I'm no longer scared because I you know that's the last thing again here's where your character defect helped you again like to be weak fuck that I will do anything other than you've seen it.

[1091] Or rational.

[1092] Like, it's rational to be scared after you had an injury.

[1093] It's not, it's normal.

[1094] But it's something about a man telling you that you look scared, that like flipped my switch.

[1095] I was like, oh, really?

[1096] You motherfucker.

[1097] Exactly.

[1098] Like, let me show you.

[1099] So.

[1100] That's why it's hard to hate.

[1101] Like, it'd be easy to go like, oh, God, I wish I wasn't an addict.

[1102] And then I'm like, well, half the other side of the attic coin is like, everything is good about me. Like, I compulsively think about it.

[1103] about everything.

[1104] I think that's why I'm a good writer.

[1105] That's why I, you know, you can't just like wish it all away because it's also like the best stuff.

[1106] Yeah, you got to work with what you've got.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] And learn to like lean into yourself and not be like, oh, you know, and once you recognize and identify why you're doing something or what the issue is.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] You know, it's even nice to know, like, oh, okay, you know when sometimes you're short with people or you're, you're in a bad.

[1111] It's like, okay, you're tired.

[1112] You know what I mean?

[1113] Like recognizing that instead of blaming the person you're talking to going hey shit this is me i'm in a bad mood i didn't get enough sleep i'm running around ragged it's not your fault but yeah it's up to us to be like okay recognize your patterns of behavior and just go all right chill with the fuck out it's so much hotter not to be fucking frenetic or yes yes stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare how do you feel about money I like it.

[1114] You like it.

[1115] I like having it.

[1116] Uh -huh.

[1117] What do you mean?

[1118] Well, like, I would say it was fetishized in my house.

[1119] We were broke and then my mom started a business and it started working and she worked her fucking ass off and I'm obsessed with it.

[1120] I don't think there's a amount I could have where I wouldn't be fearful.

[1121] I'm not going to have some when I get older.

[1122] Are you fearful that like, did you worry about it?

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] A lot of people worry their money is going to go away.

[1125] Uh -huh.

[1126] There isn't an amount you could give me that I'm.

[1127] I think I would feel safe just because I don't have a great relationship with it.

[1128] Right.

[1129] And I was just wondering what your relationship with it was.

[1130] Because you work your fucking ass off.

[1131] I remember when I was doing your show and I said, like, what did you do this weekend?

[1132] And you're like, oh, I had two shows, but then they sold up.

[1133] So I added a show and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1134] And I was like, oh, my God, you did four shows.

[1135] And then I know how much time this fucking show takes up.

[1136] And I just told myself, this person wants that money like I do.

[1137] It would be hard for me to turn down.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] I mean, that's the thing with this business is like you hit and you start to get things and offers and you don't want to say no to anything because you want it all.

[1140] And, you know, now, like, you know, for instance, for this book tour, I'm doing a 20 city book tour, which for me is nothing because I'm like, we're not, we're only adding shows in like three markets.

[1141] You know, if I'm lucky enough to sell them out, then we can add shows in these markets, but I'm not doing that to myself again.

[1142] I'm not going to to burn myself to the ground because the quality decreases.

[1143] You know, by the time I ended up doing, by the time I ended stand up the last time I did stand up the last time I did my book tour, which was like four, four years ago or five years ago.

[1144] But you haven't done stand -up in four years?

[1145] Uh -uh.

[1146] Oh, wow.

[1147] And I don't think I have no desire to really ever do it again.

[1148] Really?

[1149] I just don't have, I don't think I have anything to say in the stand -up realm, you know?

[1150] And I burned myself out.

[1151] So my point was, I just did it too much.

[1152] And to the point where, like, A, I wanted to walk off the stage more than I wanted to be on the stage.

[1153] I was happier when the show was over.

[1154] Right.

[1155] I wasn't happier being on stage.

[1156] That was never, you know, even with my talk shows, I was always happier when the product was done and it was like concrete and we're putting it out there.

[1157] It was the process that I loved.

[1158] And a lot of people who are true, you know, artists love the process more than they love walking way.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] So I like, I think, all the nice things that came with it, back to your money question.

[1161] Like, there was so much that came with it that I realized, oh, this is the, you know, this is a good ticket.

[1162] But I burned out in every possible way.

[1163] But again, if the pattern in life is like, I need the result because I am basically proving people wrong at all time.

[1164] So I need the result.

[1165] I need the piece of paper.

[1166] Or I need this rating or I need this thing.

[1167] Then it can't really be about process.

[1168] Like I totally agree with you and I relate to you because I see other people.

[1169] I'm like, oh, that person just genuinely loves doing that.

[1170] And it brought them to hear on accident.

[1171] All the other shit.

[1172] I remember Bradley Cooper and I have been really good friends for 14 years.

[1173] And we would talk about money.

[1174] and the way I was, what would you get for that movie?

[1175] And, well, you should have got this, right?

[1176] And I'm obsessed with what he should have got.

[1177] He never once gave a fuck about money, ever, not once.

[1178] But for my full goal in life, too, is just aspiring to just love the process and not give a fuck about the result or the product or anything.

[1179] It's the integrity of the work.

[1180] It's like the essentialism thing, you know?

[1181] It's like now, you know, writing this book was the first time I've written a book.

[1182] I mean, maybe my first book I enjoyed writing because it was a new thing and I loved it.

[1183] you know what's the name of the new book uh life will be the death of me life will be the death of me and you too but i this being able to focus on something made the process i like i just recorded my audio book this is something i hate an activity i fucking hate sitting in a booth listening to my own voice having to say sentences perfectly and i went in there and banked it out in like three days like four hours a day and i cry i mean the books you know talks a lot about death so there's a lot of that in there but there's, and I cried and I laughed.

[1184] And it was the most enjoyable process I've ever had stuck with myself in an audio booth because it's a different structure now because I'm not, you know, running.

[1185] Panicked about where you're supposed to be.

[1186] I'm not delivering a product for a paycheck.

[1187] I actually wanted to write it instead of being offered a bunch of money to do something and then delivering.

[1188] You know what I mean?

[1189] Like, oh, we'll give you this book deal for however much money.

[1190] And you're like, oh, guess I got to write another book, you know?

[1191] And you're like, well, wait, do you have to write another book?

[1192] Right.

[1193] You don't, actually.

[1194] I have to write in other books.

[1195] Don't write anything until you have something to fucking say.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] And do you, when you were saying that, it reminded me, so my dad died of cancer.

[1198] And after it was over, like two or three months after the fact, I was like, I'm having a really hard time connecting with what happened in the weirdest way.

[1199] It's like, I know it happened.

[1200] I was there every step of the way.

[1201] But I'm not getting the like oom feeling I was expecting.

[1202] Is this like me protecting myself?

[1203] blah, blah, blah.

[1204] So I was like, I need to write about it.

[1205] So I wrote, I told Kristen, like, I'm going to, for a couple days, I'm just going to write about it.

[1206] So I wrote this thing when I was not while I was writing it, but when I finished writing it and I read it, I got crazy emotional.

[1207] And I like was able to experience it through reading it.

[1208] It was the weirdest thing, but I wonder if other people have that.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] I mean, I wrote this book in a lot of different places around the world because I just, my friend runs the World Surfing League, this woman, that's a really good friend of mine.

[1211] And so I would just hop scotch with her, wherever, Bali, Bora Bora.

[1212] And just, you know, I didn't share anything that I was writing with her, but I wrote it in all these different places.

[1213] And I'd be in airports, you know, bawling, writing about my brother dying and what happened to my family or my mom dying.

[1214] And you're sitting there.

[1215] And it's just, there is a catharsis to it that you understand, like, I get writing now.

[1216] I get why people write and why it's important to go home and, you know, if you've had something happen to write it down.

[1217] Like my dog died suddenly, you know, a few, like last year, and I just went straight to my hotel room and just wrote everything down about it.

[1218] Like, don't forget this feeling right now, write everything you remember about him.

[1219] I mean, he was like my first dog, so he was like made me a mother, you know?

[1220] Like, he was my first rescue.

[1221] And he was like my buddy.

[1222] And so I never understood how powerful it is to get something out of your system because now I've relinquished to the pain in a way because I wrote it down and I'm putting it out there.

[1223] I'm like, okay, I'm accepting that this is what has been like a stunt.

[1224] It stunted my emotional growth for so long that I am ready to, you know, there's a power in that.

[1225] There makes you feel like I'm in charge of the rest of my life, not my brother's death.

[1226] You know, death does not define me. And I've let it define my relationships with men for so long that now I get it.

[1227] I'm like, okay, great.

[1228] and you know and I'm not like a needy person and you know like what I was saying before like I don't like to be weak and to me it's like being wanting to be in a relationship always was like when you hear a girl's like I want a boyfriend I want a boyfriend I was like shut the fuck up be independent yeah stronger than that and you know it it's when you relinquish that stuff and you let it go and especially with writing you can get to the other side and then you're like oh this is really what being strong should look like yeah yeah now do you um would you have liked to have gotten married and have been at this point with someone for okay what i don't want to do is imply like that i am in no way of implying like like oh you've failed at relationships or you should be you can skip whatever you're about to say i'm not i don't okay go go go okay i don't care and even if you did think that i'd be fine with that too i don't think that i'm just curious i'm curious if you do wish you would had maybe a decade with someone you're still with?

[1229] I don't know.

[1230] I don't know.

[1231] I don't think about the past as much as I think about, like, you know, moving forward.

[1232] I don't, like, I, I wouldn't be upset if, I think I'd be divorced if I ever got married.

[1233] I think I would have made the wrong decision.

[1234] I don't think I had done the work.

[1235] I think I would have, it would have been a disaster.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] And, you know, a couple of times I had contemplated it, I would definitely have divorced both of those people at some point, or they would have divorced me. So I think now I'm in a position where I can make stronger decisions.

[1238] I have better like skills at that.

[1239] You know what I mean?

[1240] Looking for people that are healthy instead of not healthy.

[1241] Are you aware of what you do wrong in relationships?

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] I mean, I haven't been in a lot of relationships.

[1245] I've been in like three long term relationships as a 44 year old woman as my doctor told me is abnormal.

[1246] Uh -huh.

[1247] That's exciting to be abnormal.

[1248] So, but it's about like, you know, you have to be healthy to attract a healthy.

[1249] But no, I would just want somebody, I don't know, I don't know what I want.

[1250] I just know that I'm ready to accept like if somebody comes in not to judge them if they're wearing the most fucked up pair of shoes and discount them because I don't like the way that their shirt is hanging out of their pants.

[1251] You know, all of those things that you allow yourself to be so disgusted by are not real things.

[1252] Right.

[1253] And to actually not judge somebody.

[1254] Well, what they're really doing is...

[1255] It's hard to do.

[1256] It's guys are tricky.

[1257] It's really hard.

[1258] But I believe you're always, like you're building a case at all times, whether it's that this person is perfect for you or this person is not perfect for for you.

[1259] Like, if you have commitment issues, then you're kind of just confirming that this person's not the thing, right?

[1260] You can kind of choose what you're going to focus on.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] And I've made bad decisions with regards to men.

[1263] So, like, it was time for me to take a break from that, too.

[1264] Because I don't want to be swept up.

[1265] Like, I want something that's equal.

[1266] I don't want to be swept up and distracted.

[1267] Like, I've let it take hold of me in an unhealthy, really, like, kind of, you know, destabilizing way where you're just, like, you know, at work and all you're caring about.

[1268] It's like, when are you going to hear from him and talk to him?

[1269] And talk to him.

[1270] And I know we get those feelings they're natural and then come up when you meet somebody and you're in love, blah, blah, blah.

[1271] But it's not a really healthy way to go through life long term.

[1272] And I don't want to behave that.

[1273] I don't want to check a guy's phone ever.

[1274] I don't want to even have the inclination to behave that way.

[1275] So until I'm, like, you know, healthy, you know, then I don't think it's fair to, like, keep putting, you know, you can't wait for somebody to fix you.

[1276] You kind of have to fix yourself.

[1277] Again, it's an inside job.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] And do you have a pattern of people you're attracted to you?

[1280] Because what it seems like is...

[1281] It's basically a crapshoot.

[1282] What you're saying is physically you like black guys.

[1283] No. Oh, no?

[1284] I mean, yes, but not only black guys.

[1285] Oh, okay.

[1286] Well, in your thing, you said you had jungle fever.

[1287] And even when I was listening, I was like, I do like black guys, but I don't, oh, I date white guys.

[1288] Well, that's what I was going to say is, but your long -term boyfriends were white, but you like sexually, maybe you like black dudes.

[1289] Is this a fair assessment?

[1290] No, I would be in a long -term relationship with a black guy, for sure.

[1291] If he was a great skier.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] It'd be great if I found a great black skier.

[1294] And he fit all the criteria.

[1295] I'd be like, oh, my God.

[1296] Well, I bet, like, Kobe could learn it in a week or something.

[1297] I mean, someone one of the, you know, yeah, they could pick it up if they wanted you bad enough.

[1298] But, you know, it's really easy to take your attractions as just natural to you, right?

[1299] Like, well, I don't know, man. this is what I like.

[1300] I could give you a list of the things I like, you know.

[1301] But I have at times been like, there's probably something behind that, though.

[1302] Like, you probably don't just like what you like.

[1303] If life had taken different turns, you'd probably like something different.

[1304] Yeah, I want to be like looked after ultimately.

[1305] I want somebody who's going to look after me and protect me and say, here you are.

[1306] Where are you?

[1307] Where aren't you home yet?

[1308] Like, I never had that growing up.

[1309] I had no one asking where I was.

[1310] My parents would, I mean, I would go away for the weekend when I was like 11 or 12 with my girlfriends and they didn't even know I was gone.

[1311] So obviously my, you know, I want a strong masculine guy.

[1312] Black guys are strong and masculine.

[1313] And I was attracted to that because it felt like they were protecting me physically.

[1314] Uh -huh.

[1315] That's interesting.

[1316] And it's very basic.

[1317] What about marrying dad?

[1318] Like I married mom for sure.

[1319] Oh, you did?

[1320] Oh, sure.

[1321] 100%.

[1322] Oh, yeah.

[1323] Do you ever call Kristen Mom back?

[1324] Well, once you have kids, you switch permanently to mom and dad because you're always reference the kid you're only communicating with the kids like to ask mom mom is this and then you just go mom did you blank and then you're those people or I'm dad and she's mom well I mean my dad I'm not I was I think you marry the opposite or or not marry date you know I'm everybody I dated was kind of like not really no I mean my father I found so kind of not repulsive in that way but like he was I didn't want that right right so it's better to be alone than to be with anybody that was gonna, you know, bring me down, or at least I could rely on myself.

[1325] I'm the only person I can rely on.

[1326] It's me, you know, against the world, this whole mentality that you have to just be so fierce that you have to like, you know, that, and then you become the fixer for everybody.

[1327] Like, I, you know, I'll take care of it.

[1328] Oh, my brothers and sisters, they need this.

[1329] I got it.

[1330] I got it.

[1331] I'm going to control the family now.

[1332] I'll take care of it.

[1333] Like, I became the one that was dependable.

[1334] So I'm not attracted to anyone like my dad by, by, for sure.

[1335] Like, I need guys where I should have been.

[1336] Not even like, not personality wise where like there's an unavailability that you're attracted to.

[1337] Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.

[1338] Yeah, yeah, the unavailability, emotional unavailability.

[1339] Yeah, and if I could get this person to...

[1340] Yeah, I've dated guys that were overly emotional, like, who were the opposite of my dad.

[1341] Sissies.

[1342] Yeah.

[1343] No, I'm just trying to make Monica mad.

[1344] I've dated guys that were, I've dated a guy once that was really needy.

[1345] My boss from E, when I got my E show, we started dating, like, like three or four months after I started my first show there.

[1346] And he and I had a really bad breakup because he was fucking obsessed with me. And I'd come home and my show would be on, you know?

[1347] Like, it was that kind of shit.

[1348] And I was like, I can't deal with this.

[1349] You've got to chill out.

[1350] He didn't have his own friends.

[1351] You know, he didn't want to do his own thing.

[1352] If I went out, it was like, what time are you coming home?

[1353] And that I didn't respond to him.

[1354] So then the next, you know, guy, I was just like, I went through a string of like non -attachment people, you know, like I didn't care.

[1355] I just wanted guys around to have sex with.

[1356] And I didn't want any commitment.

[1357] And then I dated a guy that was emotionally just kind of tricky and just not a great guy.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] And after I chose him and got back forth and broke up with him and got back together a couple times, I'm like, I have no business being in any relationship.

[1360] Right.

[1361] You know, he just wasn't, you know, cheated, lied and all that stuff.

[1362] And I just, I don't know.

[1363] It just fucked me up that I was like, I'm not doing this again until I know what I'm doing.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] So there's just two more things I really want to hit because I, find you really fascinating.

[1366] But when I was remembering that you dated.

[1367] Yeah, right.

[1368] You've had five books on the New York Times bestseller list.

[1369] I'm sure no one's interested.

[1370] I'm sure that was your sister bought all those.

[1371] With my money.

[1372] Can you go buy these fucking books?

[1373] That was cute.

[1374] That's a cute thing.

[1375] Once my very first book that I wrote, my horizontal life, I wrote it and I came home to visit my parents.

[1376] I came out and I did this like book tour and I was in, you know, somewhere in Europe.

[1377] in Antwerp, this random place for this book fair.

[1378] And I remember coming home from there and my mom picked me up from the airport in the minivan.

[1379] And in the back, there were just like piles of my book that she had gotten and bought bars.

[1380] And she goes, I went into, and my mom was so shy and like not like that.

[1381] You know, she wasn't in your face.

[1382] And she went ahead, had gone to Barnes & Noble.

[1383] And she goes, I put all the books up front.

[1384] And then I went to the back.

[1385] And I bought all they once so that they know it'll be sold out.

[1386] And I was like, oh, that's so cute.

[1387] You kind of already answered this question earlier, but I was wondering, because I've been guilty of it, do you think by being so openly honest about your sexuality and fucking dudes or the first book is My Horizontal Life, has that invited unwanted comments from guys that feel like they're allowed to talk to you like that?

[1388] Because I even think I felt like I could start right off at a 10 with you.

[1389] And just because you're being honest about it doesn't mean that you're, you want to talk.

[1390] talk to strangers or that they're allowed to talk to you have the most personal and i feel like it's a trap only women are uh susceptible to i think it's unfair but uh i had a weirdly this similar question for amy schumer which is like sarah yeah and silverman both good friends of mine awesome women amy sarah and me yeah that's a good crew i know i love yes they're both great people too but have people felt like that you don't have boundaries and people do that mostly women though men don't again men are like oh get her fuck away from me women are more like you know want it they think i do shots all the time or they want to party or like i said you know women get like i'll come to my shows and be like shit face and it's like no no that's not what i was talking about you know what i mean like i'm right because you had vodka in the title of your book i'm fucking 40 i'm not doing shots i try not to do shots you know what i mean um it's not fun to do a shot doesn't taste good but uh people do that stuff but it's mostly women men I've never like really, you know, sometimes men can be inappropriate, but it's never been an issue, no, I think.

[1391] Well, because also, the ex -boyfriend, I was looking at, I was reading that today and I was thinking, huh, man, you fast forward that same scenario to today, it's probably dodgy, right?

[1392] Yeah, you can't have sex with people you work with anymore.

[1393] What was the age, what was the age difference?

[1394] 20 years.

[1395] So the other figure thing was like, I always.

[1396] I've always dated older guys.

[1397] I've always dated older guys.

[1398] So the father figure thing is a definite thing.

[1399] We're just not sure exactly what.

[1400] Yeah, we're not sure exactly.

[1401] Which we're pinpointing.

[1402] But he was 20 years older.

[1403] We dated for four years and I was madly in love with him.

[1404] Right.

[1405] Like I, but never once did I ever want to be married.

[1406] Like I, even in my deepest feelings for him, it was never on the table.

[1407] I always assumed everything was going to be temporary.

[1408] Uh -huh.

[1409] You know, even that relationship.

[1410] Yeah.

[1411] I was always like, I love him, you know, I'm love you.

[1412] Of course, will be together, da -da -da.

[1413] And then when I started to kind of outgrow the relationship is when, you know, he really clamped down.

[1414] And that's when I was like, okay, I'm out.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] Which is what happens.

[1417] Well, so first and foremost, I'm very in favor of the many things that are happening and evolving.

[1418] And I think that there are a ton of terrible predatorial dudes.

[1419] I'm also in defense of people dating at work.

[1420] I'm also in defense of people dating their boss if they want to.

[1421] I don't believe that people can't date their boss.

[1422] No. And I also, think that like you know work is where a lot of people meet with it's the only place you're at like like you know i think there's we're in a period of overcorrection which is completely necessary and then hopefully we can shake this out to a point where you know if two people want to be responsible and normal they can definitely like each other and say hey do you want to go on a date with me yeah you know it's just there is predatory behavior and you know just like you and i'm sure like you i'm embarrassed that i didn't know more about this whole yeah well and and again i'll And I'll take full responsibility and ownership.

[1423] But the other very tricky thing is that for you to see yourself the way other people see you is very hard to do.

[1424] I have never thought I was the boss.

[1425] But I have been the boss when I'm directing a movie and there's a hundred people.

[1426] I am technically the boss.

[1427] But I don't feel like the boss.

[1428] I feel like a 12 year old that somehow accidentally got into this party.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] So it actually takes work to remind yourself like, oh, recognize that no, some people actually are looking at.

[1431] you in a way that you're maybe it wouldn't be healthy to acknowledge you know i do have power over people i would never want to feel like i have power over people yet i yet i'm required to acknowledge it yes exactly because i'm a dirty motherfucker if you're around me you're hearing sex jokes you know i'm saying me too i'm fucking disgusting and inappropriate and i say things and i touch people i constantly touch people yeah and i mean even during this documentary i was filming.

[1432] I, you know, grabbed this, a black girl.

[1433] I smacked her on the ass, like, in a way that I felt like was like, oh, hey, you know, like sisterhood.

[1434] Like, we're girls.

[1435] You know, I'm not gay.

[1436] I'm not hitting on you, but like, yeah, like sisters.

[1437] And she was not having it.

[1438] Like, she was really upset that I touched her butt.

[1439] She's like, black women have been defined by their hair and their asses for centuries.

[1440] You're not allowed to touch us that way.

[1441] And I was like, holy fuck.

[1442] You're right.

[1443] It's not about your intention.

[1444] Fuck intention.

[1445] It's about how it's received.

[1446] You can't say I didn't mean it that way That's how it felt to them Well I think both things are true Both things are true Intention is very relevant If I Smacked her ass It's different than when you did So that is true And then also It's true that you were wrong And you shouldn't do it again Yes You know what I'm saying Like all I think we're presented With one or the other option But it's like all things can be true Like when they told me And I got on the phone With this girl And I spoke with her But when they told me That she was upset by that I was like, well, what's the chart?

[1447] Like, is there a charge here?

[1448] Like, what are we calling this?

[1449] Like, is this sexual harassment?

[1450] They're like, well, it's harassment.

[1451] I'm like, because it's unwanted.

[1452] And I'm like, okay, but I'm not trying to fuck that girl.

[1453] I'm not doing that.

[1454] I'm certain, you know, and they're like, no, it doesn't matter.

[1455] It's unwanted.

[1456] Like, it took me a minute to digest it.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] And once I took the time to actually understand where somebody fucking else is coming from rather than what my experience has been, it made it a lot clearer that you are out of line.

[1459] And a lot of the behavior that all of us have been getting away with for a long time is not acceptable.

[1460] A hundred percent.

[1461] But it sometimes requires mistakes.

[1462] Sometimes it requires you doing it to then learn, oh, I can't do that again or other people can't do that.

[1463] But how do you know unless you do it?

[1464] Sometimes mistakes are part of the process.

[1465] You can still smack skinny white girls in the ass, though, right?

[1466] I think so.

[1467] I think I'm going to feel pretty good about that.

[1468] But you're right, because what you immediately start doing is you start defending your character, or at least I do.

[1469] I'm like, well, hold on now.

[1470] I'm not that, that thing that we've put in that box.

[1471] Right.

[1472] Right.

[1473] Because, you know, I mean, how many people are living in, you know, fear, you know, about, oh, God, what's going to come out?

[1474] What have I done this?

[1475] You know, like, we're all guilty of not behaving at our best all the time.

[1476] So you're just, it's a good thing to think about.

[1477] It is.

[1478] And, boy, is it tricky?

[1479] Because there's, there's yet another side of my brain, too, where it's like someone just told Monica and I a story where they were, they made a, they were making a bunch of jokes.

[1480] And there was about 90 people there.

[1481] And everyone was having a fucking.

[1482] riot and a blast and it was awesome and then one person did not like those jokes and reported it right so in a situation like that i'm a little bit caught with like well i'm sorry also one person can't ruin what a hundred other people agree is fine with so it that's tricky too yeah you know does the trigger for one person trump the enjoyment of a hundred people no that's good i mean that's a fair point because it's like well what but again i mean i'm not saying saying, smacking someone on the ass, but you know what I'm saying?

[1483] Like, there are, there are many examples we could think of where, where 99 .9 % of the people would enjoy it.

[1484] And that one person, it would certainly bring up something traumatic and then, it's heartbreaking.

[1485] Right.

[1486] And then, but do, are we prioritized that person?

[1487] That's true.

[1488] I mean, we're in a difficult time right now.

[1489] I think for a lot of people to know what to do or what to say, but, you know, that's probably, it's definitely warranted, you know, people have overstepped and behaved so badly.

[1490] But it is like, you know, you're right.

[1491] I mean, that's a great point.

[1492] It's like 100 other people weren't offended, but what, you know, what, what happened in your past?

[1493] I mean, how are we supposed to know what everybody's pasts were?

[1494] So, like, the only thing we can do is be sensitive to people's backgrounds and be racially sensitive and not to say something that's stupid and not try to put our foot in the mouth.

[1495] But again, you do make mistakes and you learn from them.

[1496] And I think once you, I have to say, like, when somebody apologizes this for something, we should accept it.

[1497] Yes.

[1498] I mean, I was lucky enough that she totally was cool with me when I did apologize and we talked for a little bit on the phone.

[1499] And, and I, you know, I felt awful about it.

[1500] But, but, And she loved the new car.

[1501] And you know what?

[1502] Yes, of course.

[1503] She loves her new house in Bel Air.

[1504] She loves living there.

[1505] I'm now living in a one -bedroom apartment in Pes.

[1506] It's all projection, most certainly.

[1507] But there have been so many things throughout the last 10 years where I'm like, I don't know, I'm pretty darn similar to this person.

[1508] Like, I feel like I really relate to this person.

[1509] I think we are similar after having this conversation.

[1510] It seems that way.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] What do you think, Monica?

[1513] I think so, for sure.

[1514] Yeah.

[1515] Would you tell Kristen?

[1516] yeah let her and the children know the thing that i've always listened and i'm always trying to read between the lines i'm like is she one of us like what's your relationship with drinking is it as close as it can be to where you would need to stop or is it fine it's been it's been it's been i've definitely pushed the limits in my life for sure where there it's like you better rein it in And when I have had to, I do.

[1517] Now with cannabis, the drinking is a different thing.

[1518] You know what I mean?

[1519] Like with cannabis legalization.

[1520] Because you love, like, edibles and stuff.

[1521] I love edibles.

[1522] I love vaping.

[1523] I love it.

[1524] I mean, this is one of the first days that I probably haven't had a hit of a vape pen.

[1525] And I mean, by this time, I usually have a hit at some point.

[1526] It takes, I like, you know.

[1527] By the way, I'm very pro weed.

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] Well, everyone should be.

[1530] I mean, it's like, hello, it's so much better than alcohol.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] So that's changed a lot.

[1533] But, yeah, no, there was times in my life where I went.

[1534] too far and I've been out in public and been gross or messy and where I was like, you know, where people were like, you got to cool it.

[1535] Yeah, yeah.

[1536] Yeah.

[1537] And so, so, so yes, for sure, it's something that, you know, with the thing about, for me about weed is that like it, A, at a certain age, it's not a hot look to be bloated.

[1538] You know what I mean?

[1539] You doesn't come off of you the way it used to.

[1540] I'm in my 40s, so I have to work hard to be healthy.

[1541] And it's important for me to like look you know as good as I can and so that's the major you're doing a great job thank you well because there's a I'd be like little clues right like so I'm listening to you on stern and then I think you're saying like once a year you always do a month clean out right no no that's not me I don't do that I mean I have but not on the regular but that's okay it's definitely you a month well I could have the terms wrong of the agreement but but you were saying that you'll do like a detox Yes.

[1542] I do detoxes a lot.

[1543] Right.

[1544] And then my just little spiky senses went, well, you know, most people don't feel the need to detox.

[1545] Right.

[1546] Like just a little clue for me. You know what I'm saying?

[1547] That's actually great.

[1548] You're right.

[1549] Because why are you detoxing unless you feel disgusting?

[1550] Right, right.

[1551] I will say there have been times where I've been, you know, like, you know, alcohol goes a lot along with a lot of other things.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] Do you use powder your nose?

[1554] Yeah.

[1555] Oh, God bless you.

[1556] I've done that.

[1557] I don't do.

[1558] I mean, yes.

[1559] I've done.

[1560] I've done.

[1561] definitely done that.

[1562] That is like, that is a filthy, disgusting way to be.

[1563] It's what got me sober.

[1564] I just want to say all this is a huge compliment to you because all this evaluation of you is me just going like, I could have had a real great weekend with her.

[1565] Like, I have always thought had we met at the right time, we could have really fucking rolled our sleeves up and talked about some topics.

[1566] We would have.

[1567] We would have.

[1568] But I think, you know, as a natural progression, you know, I understand, I mean, obviously addiction is a huge problem.

[1569] And I think, and I, and I, And I'm not saying that I don't have a problem or I do have a problem.

[1570] Who knows?

[1571] I know that I don't want to allow myself to get to a place where I have to quit something forever.

[1572] So if I have to remove alcohol from my life, then I do.

[1573] You know what I mean?

[1574] If I have to go for a while and not drink or have one drink and never have more than one drink, like, you know what I mean?

[1575] I am able to make those modifications because first of all, I, you know, it's more about vanity to be quite honest than anything else.

[1576] And sadly, that's like, Like true, you know, the business we're in, it's like, I don't want to look tired.

[1577] I don't want to, you know, you can only get away with that behavior for a while.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] You can't get away with that as an older person.

[1580] It's not a hot look.

[1581] Well, look, Vanity saved my life.

[1582] Like, I didn't quit smoking because I was afraid of lung cancer, although I acknowledged I was going to get it.

[1583] I was like, I don't want wrinkles.

[1584] I started noticing like, oh, all these smokers, they look really old, really quick.

[1585] I can't, I can't afford to do that.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] I mean, that really drove me to.

[1588] How'd you quit smoking?

[1589] Nicorette.

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] I am on the lozenges.

[1592] I have been for 12 years.

[1593] Yeah, everyone seems to be addicted to lozenges.

[1594] I love.

[1595] Everyone seems to be addicted to lozenges.

[1596] I got hypnotized by that.

[1597] I got Kerry Gaynor.

[1598] Oh, he's got a book, right?

[1599] Well, tell us about hypnotizing.

[1600] It worked.

[1601] Yeah, I quit smoke.

[1602] I never smoked a cigarette again.

[1603] I got hypnotized, like, I think when I started my Netflix talk show, which was like four years ago I started, and I haven't had a cigarette ever since.

[1604] He said to me, the last day I left, he said, I go, can I have?

[1605] hang out with friends that smoke and he said you'll never want to smoke again go outside with your friends tonight when they smoke cigarettes you will never think of yourself as a smoker it'll be foreign and it and it and it is wow even in like there have been times where like you know a girlfriend's in a situation and everyone whips out the cigarettes and I'm like I want to help I want to smoke a cigarette with you guys to be supportive solidarity but it's so it's so foreign to me it's like I've never and even when drunk because that that's to me where I always fell off drink and have fun you're not going to smoke and I never did do.

[1606] remember that experience?

[1607] We've talked about this before.

[1608] Like, our personality is more susceptible to hypnotizing or not.

[1609] I like, well, if I'm, if I'm susceptible, then I think almost anybody.

[1610] You're encouraging, actually, yeah.

[1611] My cousin, I sent, she's a smoker and she didn't work for her.

[1612] My driver, Billy, I know that's relatable.

[1613] He, his wife smoked for 45 years.

[1614] I know that's relatable.

[1615] And I sent her and she hasn't smoked in seven months.

[1616] What does he do?

[1617] What does it?

[1618] I don't know.

[1619] He's so weird and unsettling that it's almost like you want to get it over with so you don't ever have to see him again.

[1620] Sure.

[1621] Kind of like the pooping in the pants three times.

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] Yeah.

[1624] Like I'm like, let's just get this.

[1625] Always in the situation.

[1626] You're like a magnet.

[1627] I'm like, let's just get this down.

[1628] So I don't ever have to fucking come back to this three's company apartment in Santa Monica, which he has.

[1629] And he's a great guy though.

[1630] He helps with people's like with eating disorders and, you know, phobia plane flying, whatever.

[1631] So for me, yeah, smoking was really gross.

[1632] And then And yeah.

[1633] Say the name of your book one more time.

[1634] Life will be the death of me. And when does it come out?

[1635] It comes out on April 9th.

[1636] And I'm doing a 20 city tour.

[1637] So there are still cities that have tickets available.

[1638] So it's livenation .com for to buy tickets.

[1639] Okay, great.

[1640] And then also I noticed when I, when I googled your name today, the very first thing that came up was your tour schedule.

[1641] So I think it's very easy to find.

[1642] Yeah.

[1643] Whoever's managing.

[1644] I'll go home and Google myself and make sure that's working out.

[1645] You'll feel great by the end of that.

[1646] It's always positive.

[1647] Remember in the beginning, like at the beginning of my career, I remember I was like constantly, just so self -obsessed and Googling myself.

[1648] And then you get to a point where you don't ever want to see an interview you've done or see a picture of yourself.

[1649] You just are divorced from yourself.

[1650] I couldn't agree more.

[1651] I always talk on here about that.

[1652] There was a two -year period that I had a Google alert on myself.

[1653] So like any time someone whispered Dak Shepard, I'd find out about it.

[1654] And it just always I felt terrible after it.

[1655] Yeah.

[1656] Even a positive review of anything I'm in, I figure out the way that it's bad.

[1657] Yeah.

[1658] Exactly.

[1659] Well, we all do.

[1660] You know, it's not, it's, we, we hate ourselves.

[1661] I don't know why.

[1662] So it's better for me to, like, I like to hear news about myself from other people.

[1663] Yeah.

[1664] Sometimes I'm like, what?

[1665] Like, did you respond to someone?

[1666] Like, I'm in a, you know, I was in a Twitter war that I didn't know I was in because I didn't fucking know with one of the Trumps or something.

[1667] And somebody told me, they're like, did you, we were waiting for your response to Donald Trump Jr. I'm like, what did he say?

[1668] I'm like, he said, you did this.

[1669] And I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I don't know about that.

[1670] Yeah.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] Okay.

[1673] So, and then are you, you're doing more stuff with Netflix?

[1674] Yeah, I'm doing a...

[1675] You seem to have a real good thing with them.

[1676] They're my, that's my, what do I say?

[1677] Peach pit?

[1678] Yes, basically.

[1679] It's been at Netflix forever.

[1680] Everything I do is at Netflix.

[1681] But yes, I have a new documentary coming out on the, you know, that's coming after the book.

[1682] So I'll do the tour.

[1683] I'll do the book.

[1684] I'll do the tour.

[1685] And then I'll do the documentary and that stuff.

[1686] And then, you know, hopefully ski season will come back.

[1687] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1688] All right.

[1689] Well, I adore you.

[1690] I always have.

[1691] I hope I'll talk to you again somehow.

[1692] I hope so too.

[1693] Because you and I would never have this conversation without this.

[1694] I know.

[1695] Like, I know you.

[1696] I know.

[1697] Congratulations on this podcast.

[1698] I listen to like six episodes driving up to visit my family.

[1699] And I was like, oh, wow, this is great.

[1700] Oh, thank you.

[1701] You're a psychologist.

[1702] Well, hey.

[1703] Don't.

[1704] Don't do.

[1705] Please don't.

[1706] Please don't say that out loud.

[1707] I'm my own psychologist.

[1708] I just try to go out on a high.

[1709] Thank you.

[1710] Thank you.

[1711] But anyways, I'm really happy I'm seeing you.

[1712] and I hope I see you again soon.

[1713] I hope your book does fantastic and I like you a ton.

[1714] Thanks, guys.

[1715] Thank you.

[1716] Thanks for having me. And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1717] How you doing?

[1718] Good.

[1719] I'm cold.

[1720] You're chilly?

[1721] Let me turn on the heater.

[1722] No, is it going to be loud?

[1723] I don't think it's too loud.

[1724] Okay, so let's say what we wanted to say in the intro, but you don't want to be weird in the intro.

[1725] Yes.

[1726] Well, we've noticed a pattern.

[1727] Yeah, let's talk about the pattern.

[1728] pattern we've noticed.

[1729] We've noticed a pattern.

[1730] It happened with Lena Dunham.

[1731] It happened with Amy Schumer.

[1732] It happened.

[1733] Sarah.

[1734] Sarah Silverman.

[1735] It happened with Gwyneth Paltrow.

[1736] Chelsea Paredi.

[1737] We don't see this when we have men on.

[1738] No. Where all of a sudden, the comments are super mean and critical.

[1739] And harsh and a lot of...

[1740] Before they've heard.

[1741] It's always before they've listened.

[1742] In fact, anyone who would listen pretty much all said, like, oh, I like her so much more than I was expecting to or whatever.

[1743] Yes.

[1744] I think there's been a lot of quick judgment when we have strong female guests on who are known to have opinions.

[1745] Yeah.

[1746] Even though a lot of our male guests are also known for having a lot of opinions.

[1747] Yes.

[1748] And nobody seems to have that reaction.

[1749] And I just Your humble host has a tremendous amount of opinions.

[1750] Yeah.

[1751] And I just would like to urge people if they have the instinct, look, the hard thing is if they're listening to this part, they've listened already.

[1752] That's true.

[1753] That's true.

[1754] That's what's hard.

[1755] But I do want to say what my policy is.

[1756] So like I did this on Gwyneth, which is if you want to say something mean about one of our guests, I can't stop you from saying it on your feed.

[1757] You should totally say what I'm not trying to control your free speech.

[1758] But on my feed where our guests might go and look, I delete and.

[1759] any negative mean terrible comments about a guest that just graciously gave us two hours of their time.

[1760] And so I will delete it.

[1761] And then if you keep rewriting it, which happened a couple times, I then block you.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] So that's just the policy on my page.

[1764] You can do with that info, what you will.

[1765] Yeah.

[1766] If you have the internal response to write something like that, I would just urge you to think about why and what's happening in this specific case versus all the other people we have on our show because there's no difference.

[1767] Right.

[1768] And it's been pretty stark and obvious.

[1769] Yeah, it's hard to not realize or observe.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] It's a pretty clear pattern.

[1772] It is.

[1773] So, yeah, that's our two cents about being positive on the comments.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] Again, your feed can be as negative as you want it to be.

[1776] That's fine.

[1777] But ours is positive.

[1778] We try to keep it positive.

[1779] Yeah.

[1780] And I hope, you know, sure, everyone can do whatever they want.

[1781] But positivity is contagious.

[1782] And if you're putting it out there, I do think it comes back to you.

[1783] I agree.

[1784] And negativity is the same way.

[1785] So I hope our listeners, for their sakes, put out more positive energy.

[1786] Yeah.

[1787] Try to anyway.

[1788] I agree.

[1789] Yeah.

[1790] Anywho.

[1791] So Chelsea.

[1792] Man. Yeah, I'll see.

[1793] Now, did you have any preconceived opinions of Chelsea before she got here?

[1794] Yes, I was very intimidated by her before she came.

[1795] Uh -huh.

[1796] As I am with a lot of these women, again, that all of the people that we just listed, I have felt intimidation about beforehand.

[1797] Right.

[1798] Which I know it's tied in.

[1799] It's all tied into this where powerful, strong women are intimidating.

[1800] Right.

[1801] Even to people who have strong opinions themselves.

[1802] It's so weird.

[1803] Yeah.

[1804] It's very weird.

[1805] But for me, the intimidation, it doesn't come with anger.

[1806] It's just like, ee, like, I'm like nervous.

[1807] I'm nervous.

[1808] Yeah.

[1809] Well, also, do you think there's a layer of it where you also respect these women?

[1810] Absolutely.

[1811] And so the notion that they might not like you, the stakes are high.

[1812] I want to impress them more than I want to impress someone else who I'm not intimidated by.

[1813] Right.

[1814] Yeah.

[1815] For sure.

[1816] I think this was definitely one of my top three favorite episodes.

[1817] And she's so honest and insightful and really is trying to do good.

[1818] Yeah.

[1819] I really, I just really like her.

[1820] Yeah, I like her too.

[1821] And I like that she's trapped in a similar conundrum that I've been trapped in, which is like her comedy for years has been provocative and kind of calling bullshit.

[1822] Yet she is a good person who wants to enact.

[1823] change.

[1824] Yeah.

[1825] And so sometimes those things are now budding up against each other and probably evaluating, oh, I guess I wouldn't have made this joke that I made before now.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] I just relate to her a lot in that she's like kind of juggling this things where like she's crass and into the point.

[1828] And yet she does care about people's feelings.

[1829] Yeah.

[1830] That's true.

[1831] Yeah, that's very true.

[1832] And you're kind of picking like, okay, well, who now, who does deserve this public criticism or are shaming.

[1833] Well, there was a thing on John Oliver about it the other day.

[1834] It is a curious question.

[1835] It's like who, who can you ethically publicly shame?

[1836] Yeah.

[1837] And that was interesting on that show because he said that it may seem like we do that all the time, which we do.

[1838] He was like, but we put a lot of thought into who we think it's okay to do that to and who we don't.

[1839] Right.

[1840] It's very interesting.

[1841] It's one of those, you know, when we had Mike on, he he always uses that phrasing punching up.

[1842] Right.

[1843] Like you can punch up.

[1844] but you can't punch down.

[1845] Right.

[1846] And I think that's generally a good rule.

[1847] Mm -hmm.

[1848] I do too.

[1849] Yeah.

[1850] I was remember when I was, people were mad at me for making fun of the movie, the expendables on Conan.

[1851] I was saying, I was making fun of Sylvester Stallone and what other jacked up huge guys in that movie.

[1852] And I was saying that they can't fight fast.

[1853] Oh.

[1854] They still have big muscles, but their tendons aren't in great shape.

[1855] So they have to lie down to fight and stuff.

[1856] Uh -huh.

[1857] People were mad.

[1858] And I was like, if you can't make fun of.

[1859] of the most alpha rich white dudes in America.

[1860] Who on earth can you make fun of?

[1861] Yeah, I agree.

[1862] That's silly.

[1863] Chelsea handler.

[1864] She'll handle you.

[1865] Oh, yeah.

[1866] Do you know I used to sometimes call her Chelsea Lately?

[1867] Because her show was called Chelsea Lately, and I would think for seconds that her name was lately.

[1868] Yeah, I could see that happening.

[1869] I think when I spoke with my father about her, I mean, you know, my dad, I didn't bring it up again because I told her in person, but my dad was obsessed with Chelsea.

[1870] Oh, really?

[1871] Oh, he thought she was so fucking hot.

[1872] But in fact, you know, when I told her, I'm like, you know, my dad is like, he has your, the playboy interview you did is like sits on the coffee table.

[1873] He's just obsessed with her.

[1874] And she goes, yeah, mostly old men like me. It's really funny.

[1875] Oh, Dave Sr. had a thing for her.

[1876] Like you can't imagine.

[1877] But again, he was very confident.

[1878] He wasn't afraid of some outspoken girl.

[1879] I like that.

[1880] Well, he picked my mom at one point.

[1881] I know.

[1882] That bitch ain't keeping it quiet on any topic.

[1883] No. No. Oh, anyway.

[1884] So, you know, we talk a little bit about her books and how, and like who you can talk about your siblings or can you talk about ex -boyfriends and all of that stuff.

[1885] And I think about that on this show a lot.

[1886] Sure.

[1887] Absolutely.

[1888] In our storytelling.

[1889] Like, are we, these are real people.

[1890] Yeah.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] One time Anthony said that to me, not about him, but he was like, oh, you told a thing and you, oh, it was about.

[1893] Eric Covington.

[1894] Oh.

[1895] He was like, do you feel weird about that?

[1896] And I was like, no. And then he was like, well, yeah, I mean, he's a real person out in the world.

[1897] And I'm like, yeah, that's true.

[1898] Well, but I don't think the determining factor is just using someone's name or not.

[1899] Everything you told about Covington was your own obsession with him.

[1900] Yeah.

[1901] You weren't, you didn't say about any of his behavior or his actions.

[1902] Well, I said he, I did say that he slept with the student.

[1903] Well, I guess, well, that's a fact, right?

[1904] I hope.

[1905] I mean, I don't know.

[1906] Even if it is, it's still like me talking about some random person in the world who exists.

[1907] Yeah, I guess for me, my barometer of whether I say someone's name is just simply, if it's all about me, it's just all about admissions of myself.

[1908] Like, I think Randy Haminas was the cutest girl in my junior high.

[1909] Right.

[1910] You know, I'm fine saying that.

[1911] Yeah.

[1912] We're also not saying anything negative except of sleeping with a student.

[1913] But I don't even think you were painting that as a negative.

[1914] No, I wasn't, but...

[1915] You were hoping he would sleep with you.

[1916] And it was an adult.

[1917] He's not a high school teacher.

[1918] He was a college teacher.

[1919] Yeah, and she was an adult, yeah.

[1920] And then they hook, they get married.

[1921] Yeah, now they're still together.

[1922] Oh.

[1923] Oh, easy.

[1924] You're right.

[1925] You're right.

[1926] I don't know if I'm right.

[1927] I think of it more in terms of, when I think about it on your end, I always, the only time I think about it is like, oh, your mom and dad.

[1928] Yeah.

[1929] I know.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] But me and you're, you're a lot to talk about your mom and dad.

[1932] Although it is tricky because yours are both still alive and have jobs.

[1933] And like my dad, I can talk about.

[1934] He's dead.

[1935] Right.

[1936] You talk about your mom a lot.

[1937] I talk about her a lot, but I have her express permission.

[1938] Right.

[1939] Yeah.

[1940] She's like, yeah, go ahead and say whatever.

[1941] Yeah.

[1942] It's interesting.

[1943] Yeah.

[1944] Okay.

[1945] So she said, she was talking about Kathy Griffin and she said, you know, she got in a thing with Brooke Shields.

[1946] And I wanted to know what that was.

[1947] was, and I guess it was that Kathy made fun of Brooke's mom at her wedding.

[1948] I don't know.

[1949] I'm sorry.

[1950] I don't.

[1951] In her stand -up.

[1952] Yes, about Brooke's wedding and her mom.

[1953] Yeah.

[1954] I think it was in her stand -up.

[1955] Anyway, so I heard her little, she was talking about it on Howard Stern.

[1956] I heard the little clip.

[1957] And what she said?

[1958] Well, Howard says the same thing right to her face.

[1959] You'll never be at my house.

[1960] But he has her on his show a lot.

[1961] Just on his show, but that's in a studio.

[1962] But, okay.

[1963] But so what she's saying, what Kathy was.

[1964] was saying on this stern clip is like, Howard, the part of this is your fault because every time I come on here, Howard kept trying to get prior info out of her.

[1965] Yeah, and he kept saying over and over again, say Brooke Shields, it's funny.

[1966] Say it.

[1967] Oh.

[1968] And she, so then she's in a weird position there because she doesn't want to say it if she doesn't think it's true.

[1969] But if someone's telling you to do that.

[1970] I don't think it's that weird of a position.

[1971] If I go on Stern, he says, say Monica's blank.

[1972] No, I'm not gonna.

[1973] Or I was on Howard Stern.

[1974] He's asking me about who I fucked and I just don't tell him.

[1975] No, he's trapping her in a way because either she says, oh, yeah, Brooke is funny.

[1976] But then she's lying if she doesn't think that's true.

[1977] Right.

[1978] Which is, that's the nice way to do it, is to lie, essentially.

[1979] Right.

[1980] Or she just says, I'm not going to say that.

[1981] And then I'm not going to say that means she's not funny.

[1982] Right.

[1983] It's a trap.

[1984] Anyway, that was part of the conversation.

[1985] And then Howard said that she made fun of her mom.

[1986] People get really, you know, people get really protective of their family.

[1987] Of course.

[1988] Yeah.

[1989] And they're home.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] Like, you don't want to invite someone over and then part of someone's stand up is describing your household.

[1992] Right.

[1993] You know?

[1994] Yeah.

[1995] You probably don't want that.

[1996] No. I think Howard's pretty much the North Star.

[1997] He navigates it very well.

[1998] You know what I'm saying?

[1999] And, like, he knows somehow what stories he can tell on which ones he can't.

[2000] Like, Kristen and I have stayed at his home.

[2001] He's never brought that up on the radio.

[2002] Right.

[2003] Even if he's on the topic of Kristen.

[2004] Mm -hmm.

[2005] And he knows there's a wall between that studio in his real life.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] And he never talks about his daughters.

[2008] Right.

[2009] So anyways, he seems to have, you know, juggled it.

[2010] Yeah.

[2011] So you said that Kristen has, right?

[2012] rescued a trillion dogs.

[2013] Mm -hmm.

[2014] She has not rescued a trillion dogs.

[2015] There's probably not even a trillion dogs in the history of the planet.

[2016] Now there's something else to look up.

[2017] She's rescued Muffin Chelsea.

[2018] She's rescued Muffin Chelsea, Sugar, Lola, Shaky, Pat, Glenn, Emmy and her five puppies.

[2019] And then she's fostered.

[2020] Well, she already left one out.

[2021] When she moved in, she had that black lab.

[2022] Sadie, did you just say Sadie?

[2023] No. Yeah, see, she's even forgotten ones.

[2024] That was a Katrina dog that breathed like Darth Vader.

[2025] Right.

[2026] And pooped in the house every day.

[2027] Okay, so she's, between rescuing and fostering, I would say she's, she's at like.

[2028] 20 some?

[2029] No, like 14.

[2030] Oh, okay.

[2031] Not a trillion?

[2032] Not a trillion, but a lot.

[2033] Okay, so 14 is not a trillion.

[2034] what we learned today.

[2035] Anywho, but she has obviously rescued quite a lot.

[2036] She does a good job for these dogs.

[2037] And I've seen her pull over and see a dog that's just running about on their own, you know, under their own supervision.

[2038] Right.

[2039] And then figure out how to get that dog back to the owner.

[2040] I've watched that happen at least 10 times.

[2041] Yeah, that's nice.

[2042] What percentage of rescued dogs have been abused?

[2043] Well, according to the ASPCA's National Rehoming Survey, pet problems are the most common reason that owners rehomed their pets, accounting for 47 % of rehomed dogs and 42 % of rehomed cats.

[2044] Pet problems were defined as problematic behaviors, aggressive behaviors, grew larger than expected, or health problems the owner couldn't handle.

[2045] So that's not abuse.

[2046] Right.

[2047] So that's half of them right there.

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] It was not abuse.

[2050] Right.

[2051] So maybe max 53%.

[2052] But come on.

[2053] Yeah, I don't think so.

[2054] I think when dogs are like skittish, people think they're abused.

[2055] Right.

[2056] I know.

[2057] And a lot of dogs are just skittish.

[2058] I know.

[2059] But I don't really know enough about dogs.

[2060] So maybe, so I can't really say that.

[2061] Okay.

[2062] But you did and I agree with you.

[2063] Okay.

[2064] So in her marriage doc, she talks about her dad and how he comes in and he says, I love you.

[2065] I miss you.

[2066] Uh -huh.

[2067] And you said, you heard that and you were like, oh, he's guilting you.

[2068] Uh -huh.

[2069] Did you watch it?

[2070] No. Oh.

[2071] I want to watch it, though.

[2072] Yeah.

[2073] I think you'd feel the same way.

[2074] Well, no. Maybe.

[2075] You got to see the delivery.

[2076] It's not the words.

[2077] You yourself have a thing about when people say, I miss you to you.

[2078] And I...

[2079] You're right.

[2080] And it's...

[2081] Because I feel over -extended.

[2082] I feel like I'm letting a lot of people down.

[2083] Yeah.

[2084] There's a lot of people I feel that I have, I don't know, an emotional responsibility too.

[2085] And I sometimes feel overwhelmed by that.

[2086] Yeah.

[2087] Like at one time I have my mom living at the house and my sister there.

[2088] I have my wife.

[2089] I have two kids.

[2090] I have you.

[2091] I have just a lot of people who I'm very emotionally connected to.

[2092] And then if I start working 80 hours a week, I start feeling like, oh, my God, all these people are feeling like I'm not there for them.

[2093] I know.

[2094] So, yeah, it does make I feel guilty when people say.

[2095] I miss you.

[2096] But he goes, I miss you.

[2097] That's how he said it.

[2098] Not, oh, I miss you.

[2099] I know.

[2100] I just think this is triggered by your own thing.

[2101] It's such a big way.

[2102] I think you're projecting.

[2103] Also, the notion that she's famous.

[2104] So I'm probably like, you know, this kind of general, like, here's a great example.

[2105] I won't name any names.

[2106] But my mom started getting some emails about the fact that I had not attended certain and family reunions.

[2107] And they were critical of that.

[2108] And then my mom rightly pointed out that my siblings hadn't attended that either and that there were no emails about them.

[2109] Exactly.

[2110] So that was very astute of her to point that out.

[2111] And I do think once your famous people are looking for you to have changed.

[2112] And so they're finding proof of that wherever they look.

[2113] So I also think I'm really sensitive to that.

[2114] So when I saw that, I miss you, I was like, oh, he, you know, he's because she has the job she has, even though her sister and brother probably are just as unavailable through their jobs.

[2115] But maybe we don't know.

[2116] We don't know the dynamic.

[2117] And maybe he just misses her.

[2118] Like, it's okay.

[2119] Yeah, that's very true.

[2120] That could be.

[2121] And I think when you feel guilt about it, I want you to, I just want you to work on that.

[2122] Okay.

[2123] Because it's weird.

[2124] It does like a, it has such a weird rippling effect.

[2125] Because when people know that you don't like hearing it, they then can't say it.

[2126] Right.

[2127] And maybe they need to or want to say it, not not to make you feel bad, to make you feel the truth, which is that you're missed.

[2128] Right.

[2129] Which should make you feel good and should make you feel like somebody loves you and somebody misses you and wants you around.

[2130] It really should.

[2131] It makes me. feel like I'm failing that person.

[2132] But in like kind of a bizarre way, you kind of, you, this person is unable to do something they want to do because of your guilt.

[2133] Yes.

[2134] I'm feeling, I feel like I'm not meeting their needs.

[2135] Yeah.

[2136] And, and then I, I feel like I have no control over that because of whatever extraneous circumstance I'm in where I'm not available.

[2137] Yeah.

[2138] Yeah.

[2139] Yeah, it just becomes a whole spiral for me. I know.

[2140] I agree with you.

[2141] I agree.

[2142] Yeah.

[2143] I know I will work on it.

[2144] I will.

[2145] And try to hear.

[2146] So I should say I thank you when someone says that.

[2147] Well, I don't know if you need to say thank you, but.

[2148] Wait, try it with me. Try it.

[2149] I miss you.

[2150] Thank you.

[2151] You don't have to say anything, but I just.

[2152] Probably just I miss you too.

[2153] If you do.

[2154] I mean, I guess you shouldn't say it if you don't.

[2155] but but I Well, I do.

[2156] I miss all the people I love that I'm not around when I'm not around them.

[2157] Yeah, I think you need to take it for what it is, which is somebody cares about you.

[2158] Mm -hmm.

[2159] And that's all it is.

[2160] Oh, is there a big Mormon contingency in Germany?

[2161] Because remember her mom is Mormon.

[2162] Mm -hmm.

[2163] And German.

[2164] So the first congregation of Latter -day Saints was organized in Darmstadt, Darmstadt in 1843, which is, in Germany.

[2165] Is that true?

[2166] No, well, that would have to be the first one in Germany.

[2167] That's what I thought.

[2168] But then it says Elder John Taylor of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles preached in Hamburg in 1851 and supervised a translation of church literature into German.

[2169] Due to strong persecution, many of the early members immigrated to Utah.

[2170] Okay, so that's just still.

[2171] Yeah, it all starts with Joseph Smith in upstate New York and then makes its way to Ohio where he has a settlement for a while.

[2172] And then he gets driven out of it.

[2173] there for the polygamy.

[2174] Right.

[2175] And then they go to Utah and then bring them young as a military standoff.

[2176] That's why he's heralded.

[2177] Got it.

[2178] Yeah.

[2179] Well, so.

[2180] I don't even know that Joseph Smith made it to Utah, to be honest.

[2181] Oh.

[2182] I can't remember the exact history, but I don't know that he even made it there.

[2183] Got it.

[2184] Yeah.

[2185] Well, it says today, Latter -day Saints in Germany, The total approximately 36 ,000, many of them second, third and fourth generation members of the church.

[2186] That's not very many.

[2187] I think, according to one graph, if I read it correctly, it's 0 .05%.

[2188] Oh, okay.

[2189] So.

[2190] Not a ton.

[2191] No. The book Essentialism.

[2192] She recommended that I read it while we were talking and I have since read it.

[2193] Oh, you have?

[2194] Yeah.

[2195] Essentialism, the Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McCowan.

[2196] Mm -hmm.

[2197] And it's a hot, hot book right now.

[2198] In your circle, particularly, right?

[2199] My circle is reading it.

[2200] On your Marco Polo chain.

[2201] Uh -huh.

[2202] I haven't read it yet, but I would like to.

[2203] It's a good book.

[2204] You know, it's funny is it was kind of already preaching my position for the last 20 years.

[2205] So I already agreed with all.

[2206] I didn't like, I didn't need chapter after chapter to convince me. I kind of like, I agreed with the thesis right out of the gates.

[2207] Right.

[2208] And I thought it was a good one.

[2209] Yeah.

[2210] If anything, maybe alleviated a little guilt I had about.

[2211] you know traditionally what people directing movies are supposed to do is while one is being edited and there's like heat around that you go set up another one so that you're filming before the movie comes out unless in case it fails which in my case i could have benefited from twice and i didn't do it but my defense of that was i can't edit a movie well and think about other things yeah i can only i have to have tunnel vision on something yeah for me to execute it i just my brain doesn't work that way yeah so this kind of made me feel less guilty about yeah that's great well that's the next fact, because you said they've scientifically proven multitasking as a fallacy and that they've done a trillion different studies.

[2212] You're into the word trillion.

[2213] Ooh, I was loving it.

[2214] Yeah.

[2215] Feeling trillion.

[2216] And yes, the idea, the very idea is nothing more than a myth and a scientifically impossible phenomenon.

[2217] Psychologists have shown that it is impossible for the human mind to completely focus on more than one thought at a time.

[2218] Traffic jam is a perfect metaphor.

[2219] All six, this was an entrepreneur magazine.

[2220] All successful entrepreneur.

[2221] know that they cannot perform at the highest peak of their potential when a traffic jam is going on in their heads.

[2222] In psychosibernetics, they say peak performers virtually worship at the altar of focus and concentration, working tirelessly to achieve it for very good reason.

[2223] Concentration is a major key to minute -by -minute success in any endeavor.

[2224] So when you are attempting to multitask, what you are doing is reducing the amount of focus and concentration necessary for each task.

[2225] In other words, you will never be able to give each task 100 % of your complete concentration.

[2226] Yeah, that was another, like, kind of, I had some interesting thoughts while reading it, which were this is a great book, assuming you have a super desired ability or skill set, because it's kind of urging you to basically say no to a lot of requests at your job so that you can do the one that you're great at and that'll benefit the company.

[2227] But it kind of presumes you're in a position where that's going to be valued.

[2228] It's a little, I don't want to say elitist, but it's a little impractical for probably most people's job.

[2229] jobs.

[2230] Like what it would ask you to do would get you fired, I think, from most places.

[2231] So it was a little, a little bit of me was like, yeah, like, well, this is great advice if you're a programmer who has a very specific skill set that would be optimized by singular focus.

[2232] But if you work at Starbucks, you're going to take the fucking order.

[2233] Then you're going to make the coffee.

[2234] Then you're going to write a name on a cup.

[2235] You know, whatever.

[2236] Yeah.

[2237] It feels a little bit high in the sky.

[2238] Yeah, a little bit.

[2239] Yeah, I get that.

[2240] It's still a great book.

[2241] And I think people would really more benefit from.

[2242] from the social implications about saying yes to too many people, saying yes to what are really maybes, learning how to decide that a maybe is really a no, all this kind of thing.

[2243] I don't have much problem with that.

[2244] Yeah.

[2245] Well, again, you'd probably read it.

[2246] You're kind of, we are similar in that way.

[2247] But I do multitask a ton, but not in, but I definitely have a fine time saying no to like something I don't want to do.

[2248] No, well, you did it.

[2249] Like you had different job requirements.

[2250] and the podcast became required so much focus that you had to say, I can't do certain things anymore.

[2251] Other people would have just kept trying to do all those things and done a really shitty job at all the things.

[2252] Right.

[2253] She said normally by this time she would have had a hit of a vape pen.

[2254] Mm -hmm.

[2255] So we recorded at three.

[2256] Oh, okay.

[2257] That's relevant.

[2258] I just wanted people to know in case I thought it was like 10 a .m., which still maybe could be the case.

[2259] But by 3 .30, she's probably had a hit of vape is what she's saying.

[2260] And I probably pointed that out, not a nicotine vape, a weed.

[2261] Yeah.

[2262] Yeah, Marijuana.

[2263] Like T -H -C or CBD.

[2264] Who knows what kind of vape she hits?

[2265] I don't know.

[2266] That's it.

[2267] That's that?

[2268] Yeah.

[2269] Okay.

[2270] Well, we loved her.

[2271] So much.

[2272] Yeah, I hope people.

[2273] I will say one thing, you know, we started by saying don't write negative things.

[2274] The much bigger headline is 99 % of the comments are people who have an open mind and listen to someone that they thought.

[2275] was one thing, and they kept an open mind.

[2276] And that's sexy and hot.

[2277] Oh, it's hot.

[2278] Yeah.

[2279] Yeah.

[2280] It's the hottest.

[2281] So congratulations to all the people, the sexy hot minds.

[2282] Yeah.

[2283] We like you.

[2284] We love you.

[2285] We love you.

[2286] And I love you.

[2287] Love you.

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[2290] on Apple Podcasts.

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