141 - Big Thirsty Robe

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Hello.

[17] Hello!

[18] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[19] This is a podcast.

[20] This is a podcast about true crime.

[21] And there's some comedy elements.

[22] You're going to freak out.

[23] It's going to, you're going to, you won't believe it.

[24] You won't believe your eyes.

[25] You won't believe your ear holes.

[26] That's Georgia Hard Stark over there.

[27] That's Karen Kilgariff over there.

[28] Me. You.

[29] What do you have for, what do you have for me?

[30] Karen Kilgarra.

[31] I want trying to figure out a way to make this beginning more stilted and I think we're doing it.

[32] That was our goal this week, guys.

[33] We said, usually the openings are kind of stilted.

[34] And awkward.

[35] But let's turn that up to 11.

[36] That's everyone's favorite part.

[37] That's why nobody skips anymore.

[38] That's right.

[39] Because they're like, this beginning is making me sweat.

[40] They're getting good at making me uncomfortable.

[41] I think I need to start by saying, by not listening to whatever you just said, and by realizing I need to make a correction.

[42] Okay.

[43] But the correction is from the last many so.

[44] Okay.

[45] I believe, yes.

[46] Because we were talking about what book you would take.

[47] Somebody asked the icebreaker question.

[48] Yes.

[49] Well, book would you read?

[50] No, no, that wasn't a minisode.

[51] That was the Q &A episode.

[52] The Q &A episode.

[53] I filed it under minisode in my mind.

[54] So it was the last, but it was on the day of the minisode, right?

[55] No. So it was the last episode.

[56] It was a special.

[57] Oh, it was a full -on episode?

[58] Yeah.

[59] My God, I have to listen to this podcast.

[60] I bet it's good.

[61] You'd be surprised.

[62] You'd be surprised what we're getting away with.

[63] So the question asked was, what book would you read if you could only read or what book would you pick if you could only read the same book over and over for the rest of your life?

[64] And you said Da Vinci Code.

[65] I said the Da Vinci Code.

[66] Now, it's been haunting me since I said that.

[67] So this is a correct.

[68] You're correcting yourself.

[69] Well, I'm, I don't know if even I can correct it because it already happened.

[70] I did it.

[71] I said it.

[72] You know it.

[73] I have an idea.

[74] Okay.

[75] Let's really quickly.

[76] Let's record you answering that question again.

[77] And we'll have Steven edit that part of you say, into the last episode.

[78] Okay, so, so.

[79] But there's, when I'm, there's already people that have heard it.

[80] There's already people that have talked to me about it.

[81] It's too late.

[82] It never, it's never happened.

[83] It's too late.

[84] And here's what I want to say.

[85] As I was thinking about it, what I thought was, it's the perfect example of what my mind does when I go into an over, like status overwhelm.

[86] So that moment and moments like that, like when people ask you these icebreaker questions at parties.

[87] And like, they're book related or band related or fashion something that could make you feel bad and it's not fair because if they're answering it then they already have their perfect they're asking it they already have their perfect smart person answer it's exactly right so they're like it's like you know rubbing their hands together going what book would you read let me sound how let me hear how stupid you sound right now so then my brain scans the mental bookshelf in my mind all of the spines are blank there's nothing to be read it's just blank journals yeah and you can't pick one of those it's all my old journals with like half written chinese orders uh chinese food orders written on them um and poems um so i just went into a full panic and acted as if a bad detailed book is better than a beautifully written book which is fucking crazy but it was me trying to like simplify and fix a problem that didn't even exist because no one's going to be like no you're wrong because you're like yeah no I'm wrong but this is what I'm going with I'm wrong and I'm choosing the wrongness whereas if I could re -answer that now and I'm going to I would pick the my I think my favorite book I've ever read to date is a book by a writer named column McCann and it's called Let the Great World Spin and it's a it's a bunch of different stories that lead up to the day the guy walked across the tightrope between the the two World Trade Center towers.

[88] Wow.

[89] I love books that are different stories and then you find out at the end how they intertwangle.

[90] Yeah.

[91] I wasn't going to just keep going.

[92] You didn't have to, like, we could have ignored that.

[93] But the word intertwangle is the best.

[94] I think I was like kind of thinking of a tightrope and how it, you know what I mean?

[95] And then it intertwined.

[96] It intertangles right together.

[97] That's my proclensity and intertwangle.

[98] now my new words that I've made out, and then I am fucking sticking with.

[99] Your trademark is underneath him.

[100] So anyway, anyone who has, right now, if in your mind piece of trivia, you have my favorite book is the Da Vinci Code.

[101] Sorry, Dan Brown.

[102] We're not doing that today.

[103] Please replace it with column McCanns, let the great world spin.

[104] And I think really what I need is on icebreaker questions, no matter where they're asked, I need a four -day hold.

[105] So I can really give answers that I'm going to get.

[106] We'll write down essay essay answers.

[107] I'm sticking with Middlesex by Jeffrey Jenneries, but that's really because I obsessed with that book.

[108] Talking is not going great for me so far.

[109] It seems like your words are intertwangled today.

[110] My brain just says twangly today.

[111] It's so twangled.

[112] I want to read a quick thing.

[113] Do it.

[114] I've got an email from someone named Eric with a K. And it says Cheesday's episode 139 response.

[115] Georgia, Karen and Crew, I just listed in episode 139 and with Georgia's story about Athens, Wisconsin.

[116] Remember how we were talking about the, how you want a cheese parade?

[117] Yes.

[118] This was the creepy family that there was, the whole family was murdered except for.

[119] The Coons family.

[120] Yes, that was intense.

[121] And they live in a, the one son worked at a cheese factory.

[122] So we talked extensively about what a small town parade for Abraham Lincoln would be like.

[123] Right.

[124] I think that's what it was.

[125] Yeah.

[126] And then we'd throw cheese curds out the, okay, I live in Monroe, Wisconsin, about three hours south of Athens.

[127] your description of your theoretical 4th of July celebration had me laughing because this was an almost perfect description of my town's biannual cheese days festival.

[128] Yes.

[129] This festival takes over the entire town and is such a big deal that they can only have every other year.

[130] What?

[131] Fucking party.

[132] Oh, shit.

[133] Over 100 ,000 people have visited my small town of just under 11 ,000 residents.

[134] What?

[135] For three days of nothing but cheese, beer, live music, and carnival food.

[136] a major draw to the cheese days is the fresh deep fried cheese curds lines literally go around the entire block with people waiting to buy their curds this cheese day's parade is kicked off with guransy cattle being led through town yes that's my kind of cattle yes they're the prettiest ones followed by the cheese days royalty the mascot is a piece of cheese named wedgy a wedge of cheese and his underwear up his ass we just missed it there'll be another one in 2020 that we'll be another one in 2020 that we We should know that your make -believe scenario of small town Wisconsin life wasn't that far off the mark.

[137] Yes.

[138] Love your show.

[139] Stay sexy and eat all the cheese.

[140] Eric.

[141] Can someone please put it in our group ICAL, the Mordorino ICal, the 2020 Cheese Day Parade in, what was, what town below Athens?

[142] It's Monroe, Wisconsin.

[143] Fucking Monroe's Cheese Day Parade.

[144] We will be there.

[145] Get us, oops, reserve us a room at the bed and breakfast, please, Stephen.

[146] Tell them all we eat is cheese.

[147] Yes.

[148] Please get us a bed and breakfast.

[149] that's right on the parade route.

[150] So we can stay in bed but open the window.

[151] People throw fried cheese curd into our mouth.

[152] At us.

[153] This reminds me a lot of Petaluma's Butter and Egg Day parade, which has been going on since the 80s.

[154] That's all I want to do.

[155] It's very cute.

[156] It's just like my dad, the great joke that my dad loves to make is that it's not really a legit parade because he's like, Jesus, I could pick up one of those little flags and I'm walking it myself.

[157] Like he doesn't like.

[158] Yeah, that's the point.

[159] Yeah, I know.

[160] It's like little kids walk by and they.

[161] they're all from one karate class.

[162] Like, it is the cutest best parade.

[163] Is there a pet costume contest where everyone dresses their dogs as eggs and butter?

[164] No, because you know why?

[165] They save that.

[166] Petaluma is the home of the ugly dog contest.

[167] You know, every year.

[168] Shut your face.

[169] Okay.

[170] Have I never told you this?

[171] Starstruck right now.

[172] Right?

[173] Okay.

[174] The Ugly Dog contest has been going on in my hometown of Petaluma, California, since the 70s.

[175] Holy shit.

[176] And here's how I know that that is relatively accurate is because, Because my sister was on the TV show.

[177] And for people who grew up in the 80s is a big fucking deal, there was a TV show called Real People.

[178] And it was hosted by Fred Willard, some blonde lady, some blonde guy, and then another guy.

[179] And I can't remember.

[180] Holy shit.

[181] These are famous people.

[182] It was like there was a whole crew of people.

[183] Skip Stevenson was one of the people.

[184] Skip.

[185] And it was basically just human interest stories from around the nation.

[186] And it was the best show.

[187] We loved it so much.

[188] It was like one of those Sunday night kind of.

[189] of 7 p .m. shows, but...

[190] It's like easy listening of TV shows.

[191] It took completely.

[192] And it would just be like, here's this weird guy from Ohio.

[193] Uncle X lizards.

[194] Yeah, the guy that ate only McDonald's his whole life was on there.

[195] Like, like everyone, you know, I'm sure the fat twins from the Guinness Book of World Record that rode their motorcycles probably featured.

[196] But when they came to Petaluma to film the ugly dog contest, Chinese Cresteds everywhere.

[197] It was, so we heard the TV show Real People will be there.

[198] So, So my sister was in, had already signed up my dog Mugsy.

[199] Oh, Mugsy.

[200] Who was just a shitty little gray, you know, like charcoal gray mutt that I think she had an underbite.

[201] She was kind of skinny and funny.

[202] She wasn't even ugly enough to be.

[203] No, no, no. She was just plain.

[204] Yeah.

[205] But.

[206] It was kind of fucked up.

[207] And none of the hosts came.

[208] It was just the E and G crew.

[209] So there was just a professional TV camera sound man. They were just going to do voiceover for it.

[210] Exactly right.

[211] That's what they.

[212] did is like they just talked the tape in and out but when we watched it on the real TV my sister's rainbow flip flop was on made it to the final cut and we screamed my dad got mad how loud we screamed because we went berserk and it was just my sister's your fucking foot on TV as a kid it was my sister's foot and Mugsy it was one of those shots where the guy put the camera down on the ground and then the dog sniffed up to the lens oh Mugsy good girl so Mugsy actually made it to the final cut Oh, you have to find that tape?

[213] What if I saw my old dead dog?

[214] I forgot.

[215] That'd be so awesome to see much again.

[216] I promise you someone will find that.

[217] I mean, it's such an old show, though.

[218] I mean, this was like probably 78, 79.

[219] Wow.

[220] It was like 1 ,000 years ago.

[221] Someone's going to find it.

[222] Real people, Fred Willard.

[223] Anyway, sorry.

[224] Oh, my God.

[225] That was just a, I just walked you down Petaluma Lane.

[226] It was beautiful.

[227] Thanks so much.

[228] Where were we?

[229] Do we have business?

[230] merch is kind of getting knocked out of the fucking park lately that's about to hit so keep an eye at my favorite murder .com and then you go to shop yes um you know what i'm going to say this really quick okay um georgia sent me a a website that people have been sharing um do not start a store um and say that it's quote unquote inspired by this podcast and it listen we completely support We support Etsy artists.

[231] We completely support independent artists, people that are making little individual things.

[232] Somebody has started a full -on internet store that has, like, what, 50 products?

[233] It's completely ripped off.

[234] It's not stuff they're making.

[235] It's the kind of thing where it's on print on demand.

[236] Yeah.

[237] So you can just make up whatever you want and put whatever kind of, what's the word of writing?

[238] Yeah.

[239] You can put any kind of quote you want.

[240] And these people, people are basically entirely ripping us off.

[241] We would appreciate it as pretending to be fans.

[242] Well, I mean, like, whether they're fans or not, we need to tell you, you're not allowed to do that.

[243] This, like, we, we let people do it on, on Etsy and stuff like that when it's like, individual people who are like, I make this, a cross stitch for you guys.

[244] I make this, I make that.

[245] And it's like, creators.

[246] We love that people are doing that.

[247] You cannot start an internet store of our merch without permission or, like, talking about it.

[248] that's you're you're ripping us off yeah and that isn't inspired by no that's stealing yeah so you you're not allowed to do that and we we understand there's people that are gonna like we're gonna get the this will make waves because people are like hey we thought we were all gonna and it's like no no no the artist people who and they know who they are because we talk to them and they're listeners and we repost their beautiful stuff on our instagram account and we love it and we want people to make money off this to a degree you cannot open a store of our merch.

[249] It's not, it's not allowed.

[250] That's it.

[251] We're about to leave for New York.

[252] Let's, uh, I know.

[253] Is, is Georgia first or my first?

[254] Who was first?

[255] Oh, Stephen doesn't know.

[256] Well, because we did a Q &A last week.

[257] Yeah.

[258] So, so what happened the week before?

[259] Yeah.

[260] Who answered the first question?

[261] Stephen.

[262] It was a live episode the week before.

[263] Stephen, were you in San Diego all day and you just were like at the beach.

[264] Now you don't know what's going on.

[265] I was at the zoo.

[266] Your face looks too.

[267] Were you looking for dinosaurs at the zoo?

[268] Stephen.

[269] I was.

[270] I didn't find him.

[271] Steven, dinosaurs.

[272] Oh, it was, um, it was, uh, Karen would go first because it was Joan Dolly.

[273] Oh, yeah.

[274] So it's me now?

[275] Yes.

[276] Okay.

[277] Hey, this is exciting.

[278] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[279] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[280] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[281] Who killed Saz?

[282] And were they really after Charles?

[283] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[284] This season, murder hits close to home with a threat against.

[285] one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[286] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[287] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[288] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[289] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[290] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[291] Goodbye.

[292] Karen, you know I'm on.

[293] about vintage shopping.

[294] Absolutely.

[295] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[296] Exactly.

[297] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

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[299] That's right.

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[306] Connect with customers inline and online.

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[308] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[309] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[310] Go to shop Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[311] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[312] Goodbye.

[313] Well, this is good because actually it's one of those times where we leave tomorrow to go to our New York Boston leg of the tour.

[314] New York Medford, really.

[315] And I'm also back working on baskets again.

[316] So, you know what that means?

[317] I survive.

[318] I survived.

[319] I survived.

[320] So this is the part where.

[321] I'm going to retell Georgia and you if you want to listen an episode of I survived the best television show it's now on Lifetime but you can also get it on iTunes several seasons I don't think all of them but it's my favorite show if you've never seen it and you like true crime and the kind of stuff we talk about you have to watch this show it's firsthand accounts of people talking about terrible attacks disasters weird accidents and things where you can't believe that the thing they're going to come to at the end is that they survived it because each story is more horrifying than the last and then every once in a while there's like a skiing accident just to cut just to cut it and it comforts you that they survived the thing I think is cool is that when people tell their own story firsthand you would think the way you're picturing and hearing the story as I think as we all kind of do as we read this kind of stuff it's very fatalistic it's very upsetting it's very scary But when you see a person very calmly and, you know, every once in a while they'll cry, but for the most part, they don't.

[322] They just tell the story because they've already fucking told the story 50 to 100 times to all different kinds of people.

[323] And now it's like they're possessing their own story.

[324] And a lot of times the feeling is amazing when they get to the end and they smile.

[325] And the last thing they always ask them is, why do you think you're survived?

[326] And then they give this long list of the different reasons.

[327] And sometimes it's God.

[328] And sometimes it's because they love their family so much.

[329] or because they thought ahead.

[330] Like, it's just really brilliant.

[331] And there's times where, like, there's multiple stories of people getting shot in the fucking head and surviving.

[332] And they're sitting there telling the story, like, it's, like, nothing happened.

[333] Like, it's like an anxiety.

[334] It would, like, it would, like, relieve my anxiety a little bit.

[335] Probably.

[336] Well, because it, it's almost like a terrible roller coaster where it goes all the way up and freaks you out and you scream your ass on the way down.

[337] And then you're fine.

[338] And then you land fine and you're like, oh, that was someone else's story.

[339] I just lived it with them.

[340] It's kind of the idea.

[341] Okay.

[342] But also it's really stressful.

[343] And the first time I watched it was with my sister.

[344] And she made me watch it.

[345] And I kept going, I don't want to watch us.

[346] I can't deal with it.

[347] And she was like, no, you have to watch this.

[348] And it was a story about one of the people.

[349] There was three people every time, usually every time.

[350] And this time, one of the women was on a hijacked plane and got shot in the head and dumped on the tarmac and she lived it's the most unbelievable story it's so upsetting and so horrifying and yet there she is telling it yeah i mean crazy fucking bananas okay give it so i'm like i'll pump now we yeah this is why we love it and this is one i just keep trying to think when i'm in a pinch and i'm like okay what will i know that i've because there's a bunch of these i've seen a bunch of times and this is i just try to think of the ones that stand out in my mind that we're like really clear.

[351] And so this is the episode of I Survived that features Heidi and Christine.

[352] I'm not going to tell anything else about it.

[353] I'll just tell you the story.

[354] Okay.

[355] So it starts in September of 2002, Heidi Hart and Christine Shannon.

[356] They've just finished a tour of Israel and Egypt.

[357] Wow.

[358] And yeah.

[359] So they decide as their reward for, as they say, surviving the Middle East, they're going to go to Greece and party for a week and just like hang out on the beach and just relax.

[360] Great.

[361] I've just cut right to that one.

[362] They saw the sites.

[363] I wouldn't love nothing more than to see the pyramids in real life.

[364] That would be fucking amazing.

[365] So anyway, they spent two days in Athens.

[366] And then the idea is they plan on traveling all around the smaller islands.

[367] So that's basically the rest of their trip, which is five more days.

[368] So they decide they're going to take the five o 'clock ferry called the Express Samina to the island of Peros, which is located.

[369] in the central Aegean Sea.

[370] I don't know anything about the world.

[371] So I looked up Greece on a map.

[372] And it's so crazy.

[373] It's like Greece kind of goes like in this, let's, you know, like a misshapen crescent on the top.

[374] And then there's just all these islands, just a ton of islands all through that, all through the sea.

[375] And so you basically kind of like, there's McNos, and then there's this one, Peros.

[376] Other ones.

[377] There are so many of them.

[378] But it's that amazing blue water that looks like a movie.

[379] And all those little, most of those little islands have those whitewashed buildings.

[380] Like everything's white with blue doors, flat roofs.

[381] It's amazing looking.

[382] My cousins went there.

[383] I'm very jealous of them.

[384] That's amazing.

[385] Okay.

[386] Also, did you ever see the movie Summer Lovers if we're going to talk about things from the 80s?

[387] No. Well, I highly recommend it to you.

[388] and all martirinos.

[389] It's a film with Peter Gallagher and Daryl Hannah.

[390] Oh.

[391] They're, I think they're supposed to be like in their mid -20s and boyfriend, girlfriend, and they go to Greece for summer.

[392] And they love.

[393] And they love each other.

[394] But then this fascinating, I think she's French woman, shows up in the picture.

[395] And basically, I think, think Peter Gallagher convinces Daryl Hanna to have a three -way with them.

[396] There's just a lot.

[397] Don't trust Peter Gallagher.

[398] Everyone in Hollywood knows that.

[399] Once you see those eyebrows, you know that you're in danger.

[400] This movie was on HBO one night when me and my cousin Nancy were sleeping in my aunt Kathleen's front room when I was probably 10 and she was 12.

[401] And Nancy and I didn't get along because she was two years older than me, but she was the youngest in her family and I was the youngest of my family.

[402] So I drove her fucking crazy.

[403] she hated my guts um but my older sister and her were best friends classic fucking move on my sister's part but for some reason my sister either had already gone to sleep or wasn't in so suddenly me and nancy are watching this movie and we're like holy shit this is not for us no and we know that it was like our bonding moment of like dirty movie you have to be quiet we cannot get caught and also like full on sex scenes where both people are naked And no dick, but like, it was mind -blowing to me and thrilling.

[404] And Nancy, I'll always remember you for that exact moment.

[405] Is she okay?

[406] Is this her eulogy?

[407] She's, no, she's like, she's just a, you know, a mother of two grown children in the South.

[408] And she hates you to this day.

[409] And she can't hate me anymore because I have secrets like how we watch summer lovers that night.

[410] And like, we, we just kept looking at over each other with the whitest eyes.

[411] Like, can you believe that?

[412] He was pouring hot candle wax on her nipples.

[413] Is that what adults like?

[414] Also, I just, we didn't have cable in our house.

[415] So, we only got to see cable at my aunt Kathleen sounds.

[416] Did I ever tell you about the time my sister and I ran into the porno room at it, at our local video store?

[417] No. You can read about it in, stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[418] The new shared, what is it called?

[419] It's called the shared memoir that's coming out.

[420] Dual memoir that we wrote.

[421] Pre -order it on Amazon or wherever the fuck you buy book.

[422] Anyways, yeah, we ran into the dirty section.

[423] Was there a man in there?

[424] I don't remember that, but we got in a lot of trouble.

[425] It was great.

[426] How long were you in there?

[427] Would you say seconds wise?

[428] So just a few seconds.

[429] I made myself stare at one video, so I'd be like, because I was like turning in circles, being like, oh, my God.

[430] I think I was like eight, probably.

[431] And my sister and I were doing that.

[432] And I looked at one cover, and my sister did too and the one that I saw was called Naked with Shoes on and it was just like this hot young girl in shoes naked but got her like L .A. gears on and I was like, wow, that's a good adult sing is sexy and my sister saw one.

[433] That's naked with shoes on is like, it's like emergency nakedness.

[434] That's like something, your house blew up and you just got knocked onto the front lawn.

[435] It's like that or naked from the waist down.

[436] It's just like something's happening.

[437] That's bad.

[438] And the one my sister saw was like a lady on a, The cover was the Naked Lady on a Chay's Lounge lying out, and it was called Sunny Side Up.

[439] And both of us just ate in time, we got in so much trouble, but it was fucking worth it.

[440] Lee, what's up?

[441] The idea of you guys spinning in a circle.

[442] Like, take something in.

[443] Oh, my God.

[444] Naked with shoes on is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[445] That's what I would try to get our memoir called, but they wouldn't.

[446] You tried to what?

[447] get our memoir called that but unfortunately but they sued us yeah the porn sex you don't get murdered just fit a little better okay that's what our lifetime movie will be called okay good naked but with shoes on and scrunchy socks scrunchy socks okay so they buy third class tickets we're back uh now with Heidi and Christine who are taking a ferry trip they buy third class tickets.

[448] And so they, when they get onto the boat, they assume that means that they're not allowed to go below deck or like in the inside protected part.

[449] So they just stay out on the top deck.

[450] It's a beautiful day.

[451] There's about 540 people taking that 5 o 'clock ferry.

[452] And most of the passengers actually stayed out up on the deck so they could just take in the view because it's those again insane blue waters.

[453] And like that's, you know, what a lot of people were there for.

[454] The ferry goes out into the ocean.

[455] It's, it's about a five and a half hour trip to the island.

[456] And so as they're out and going in the open ocean, Heidi walks to the front of the boat.

[457] And at one point, she looks down and realizes she can see into the control room of the boat.

[458] And she notices that all the controls look really old.

[459] But the few crew members that she's seen since she's gotten on the boat all look really, really young.

[460] So she, that kind of weirds her out.

[461] And then, but the, but the, biggest thing is that there didn't seem to be anybody around.

[462] There was no one in the control room and there wasn't really anybody around.

[463] And so she actually said at one point she turned to Christine, this is Heidi, she turned to Christine and said, nobody's driving the boat, I guess we're on autopilot.

[464] Yeah.

[465] Foreshadowing.

[466] Right.

[467] So it's about an hour or two into the trip and the wind start to get really strong and the water starts to get really choppy.

[468] So Heidi gets seasick.

[469] And they basically decide they're going to hunker down they stay on the top deck they hunker down they get behind a thing for like a wind break and then they and take shelter and Heidi falls asleep so it's about now five and a half hours into the trip so they're only two miles away from the island of paros and it's about 1045 at night oh my god yeah and so christine's been reading a book and then she hears the engines change and she assumes that means like they're shifting, they're downshifting or whatever, because they're about to go into port.

[470] So she wakes up Heidi and says, grab your backpack, put it on.

[471] It seems like we're about to get off this boat.

[472] And Heidi stands up to stretch and put on her backpack.

[473] And as she does, she turns around to see a humongous craggy rock that's taking up her entire field of vision.

[474] So it's directly in front of the boat.

[475] They said if they walk five steps, they could have been, they could have touched it.

[476] and that they basically were just about to crash into the rocks.

[477] But only like a moment before did they even change from being full engines on.

[478] And just remember, it's nighttime.

[479] Oh, no. And they are, because they're in the front, they've positioned themselves at the front of the boat, they're pretty much as close to the impact point as they can be.

[480] Christine tells Heidi, so basically, they were interviewed afterwards.

[481] And I saw some of this.

[482] It was basically, I think it was AP footage.

[483] But they said it was like the Titanic.

[484] Like they turned around and this rock was completely lit up.

[485] It took up all of their field division.

[486] It was humongous.

[487] And it was just like a movie.

[488] They said they both felt like they were on a movie set.

[489] And then they heard this horrible sound.

[490] And that was, of course, the ferry just smashing into these rocks.

[491] And the impact, they took the impact.

[492] and then they recovered from that and Christine says to Heidi like in a way to try to calm her down it took four hours for the Titanic to sink and Heidi says we don't have four hours this boat is going down oh my god so immediately the ferry is taking on water and it rolls to its right side and again there's over 500 people on this ferry all the people are screaming and running the lights inside the ferry or glinking off and on.

[493] No crew anywhere.

[494] There's nobody organizing anything, nobody helping anybody.

[495] What the fuck?

[496] They said that, Heidi and Christine said there were people running up and asking them for help, asking them where to go, and they didn't speak Greek.

[497] Or not that in any way that, like, if they did, it was not fluent in any way.

[498] Like, they couldn't speak the language.

[499] So everyone's panicking, and everybody begins running to the back of the boat, running away from the impact um and from where it hit and down to the bottom where the other exit is and where there's a couple of lifeboats they're kind of hiding christina are staying there trying to figure out what they should do a group of five men rush past them they knock Heidi over she hits her head and she thinks she's going to pass out like go unconscious but she realizes if she does that then that means christine's going to have to carry her body and get her onto a life so she's like I cannot pass out, even though she had fucking full -on head injury.

[500] So she fights to stay conscious.

[501] At the same time, Christine is looking around and seeing how all these panicked people are all going to the one spot.

[502] And she realizes they can't go down there because they'll already, they're last.

[503] So they'll already be at the back of the group of people trying to get on those lifeboats.

[504] She knows there's not enough lifeboats.

[505] And they don't speak Greek.

[506] So they're not going to be able to like bargain their way.

[507] They're not going to be able to do anything.

[508] So instead they decide they're going to go up the other direction and go high away from the group.

[509] There was one, I swear to God, but this could completely be my lying brain.

[510] But there was one, I saw them on a different show that wasn't, I survived.

[511] But it was basically the same thing.

[512] It was just a rip -off show.

[513] And they told the same story.

[514] And one of them said that they, an old Greek man gestured for them to follow him.

[515] And that's why they went up upward instead of down.

[516] creepy and then when they turned around there's been no old Greek man here since 25 years 1949 but but um you know I couldn't find that anywhere I couldn't find that episode and so that could be a completely a lie but I don't think so because it was so the way Christine told it in that episode was so exact that and it was so like what the fuck I bet it was in summer love and you're getting him I bet you're getting him confused where the old the old man gestures toured a three way come to this three some follow me in my sweater she's naked but she's off so it I also love that this is another thing you get from the TV show I survived is people telling you what their brains did in these panic moments and I mean like in this one especially I think the reason that it struck me so much the first four times I've seen it is because all of those moments like how loud that would be how she yeah how like you you lose your breath seeing your entire field division taken up with rocks.

[517] Yeah.

[518] When you're supposed to be on a ferry boat in the ocean.

[519] Do you think that like there's part of you too now that like when something happens and you need to survive it, your brain is going to go, how do you want to tell this on I survived?

[520] It's like, and then you do you go from there?

[521] And then you just act out the story you want to tell.

[522] Which is that you survive.

[523] I hope so.

[524] I mean, because that's also what I love about it is there's people that tell that story and that sometimes they go like, I don't know what I was thinking.

[525] And then sometimes they go, I don't know how I thought of doing this.

[526] And that's what this seems to be is when Christine talks about that, she's just like, I just knew we couldn't go down to where everyone else was.

[527] So they head upwards, which I fucking love.

[528] Now, maybe the ghost Greek fishermen help them.

[529] We don't know.

[530] Probably.

[531] But they end up, they actually have to do the thing where they grab the railing and pull themselves because by this point, the boat is almost entirely vertical in the water sinking.

[532] Yes.

[533] So they're pulling themselves.

[534] up the rail and then they see that there is a lifeboat on that side of the boat and they they end up having to jump off the ferry to jump into the life boat oh my god and um also in that AP footage they show they have them walk up and look at the lifeboat from one from their rescue and it's like this 15 foot long orange it looks plastic yeah like it's an orange plastic boat and it has like you know those benches that are in like any like fishing boat it's like four of those benches long yeah and then there's this box of a pretty tall box of uh life vests on one end and it's so and the whole thing's orange the whole thing's the life vest orange so they jump into this boat they're 60 feet above the water yeah so they're it's you know they're basically jumping down when they jump into the lifeboat.

[535] Oh, so it's being lowered.

[536] And they're like, we have, that's the, our only chance.

[537] So they jump off the ship into the lifeboat.

[538] The lifeboat hits the water and basically begins to fall apart.

[539] The bench, Heidi's sitting on collapses.

[540] Her foot goes through the bottom of the boat.

[541] And then the boat, and then the lifeboat starts taking on water through this hole in her foot.

[542] So she was trying to keep it covered.

[543] Yeah.

[544] But also then they're trying to reach into that box of life jackets and pull as many out as they can so as many people can put on life jackets as possible because they don't know the water is crazy choppy it's really windy they don't know what's going to happen so and uh i think it was Heidi described that the box was really tall so after a while they're they can see that there's still more life jackets in the bottom and no one can get down to that there's a couple like left at the bottom because it's just fucking like designed poorly yeah the waves at this point are 15 feet high.

[545] Holy shit.

[546] And the lifeboat keeps getting smashed into the side of the ferry.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Because it's just sitting there.

[549] Yeah.

[550] So they put their life jackets on.

[551] And one man that's in the boat behind them shows them how to turn out.

[552] There's emergency strobe lights on all the life jackets.

[553] And then they turn them all on and then they look out into the water and one by one, they slowly see these emergency strobe lights and there's just people floating out in the water.

[554] oh my god um another one of those moments where it's like when you're in like this disaster and these bizarre visuals like would just memories yeah freak the fuck out of you so they put their life jackets on so now the ferry's almost completely vertical all the people who tried to run to the top of the boat to get on that life boat after um christine and hidey they either were got stuck in the railings or had slid back down and then are going into the water as the boat is sinking on the other side which I think Heidi is the one that says she was just watching people either try to hang on or just sliding down and falling in there are one or two other lifeboats in the water at this point so I honestly think that these lifeboats are built to hold 12 people that's what it kind of looks like but they don't look sturdy at all from that one clip I saw So they start seeing people swimming toward them because they're one of the only boats.

[555] Yeah.

[556] And man in the water reaches out and Heidi reaches out and grabs his hand and grabs him.

[557] And the people on the boat start in broken English saying, no, no, no, too many people, you can't get him.

[558] And she was like, I'm not fucking letting this guy's hand go.

[559] Yeah.

[560] Fuck you.

[561] And she wouldn't let go of him.

[562] And he was just like coming on.

[563] So finally everyone gave in and helped pull him onto the boat.

[564] God.

[565] And it's very sad because they both are clearly really fucking disturbed because there's all these people that were just in the water trying to get saved.

[566] Suddenly a bright light comes on and what's happened, much like in the beautiful film Dunkirk, commercial fishermen who were at port and heard the crash or the SOS call or whatever it was jump into their own fucking fishing boats and went out there and started rescuing people themselves.

[567] These fucking Greek fishermen.

[568] So people start getting pulled out of the water one by one and pulled onto these private boats.

[569] Thank God.

[570] 400 people were rescued that night.

[571] Holy shit.

[572] Then the weather takes a turn for the worst.

[573] The seas are too rough.

[574] Basically a storm comes in and they have to call off the search after a while.

[575] Oh no. So the friends and family of the missing passengers just had to go down on weight by like the ferry building on word of where their relative or loved one was and a lot of them never heard anything because 82 passengers died in that ferry crash 82 people holy shit um and it turned out that the cap the reason no one saw the captain is because he was asleep and the um no one saw any of the crew because they were all inside watching a soccer game no and so the captain and four crew members were charged with murder.

[576] Oh, my God.

[577] Yeah.

[578] But only the captain and the first mate were found guilty.

[579] Um, they obviously pled it down, uh, guilty of criminal negligence and serial manslaughter.

[580] And they got 16 and 19 years in jail respectively.

[581] Holy shit.

[582] And Heidi, at the end, Heidi and Christine say, they survived because of each other.

[583] Which is very sweet.

[584] But yeah, isn't that fucked up?

[585] That is the craziest.

[586] I'm never leaving the house again.

[587] Like, I always debate whether I should or not.

[588] I kind of shouldn't.

[589] I like, always am like, no, something bad's going to happen.

[590] And then my brain's like, no, it'll be fine.

[591] But this proves to me, don't ever go on vacation.

[592] Don't do things that you think you'll enjoy.

[593] And just stay at home.

[594] Great.

[595] Right?

[596] Is that the lesson?

[597] Totally uplifting.

[598] Is that the lesson I'm supposed to know.

[599] Trust your count on your friends.

[600] Buy third class tickets.

[601] Stay close to the top.

[602] Don't run in the direction.

[603] and other people are running.

[604] Okay.

[605] Running a different direction.

[606] But if seagulls are flying overhead, yeah.

[607] Go in the direction they're going.

[608] Why?

[609] I just got that from the day after.

[610] Isn't that the day after?

[611] The Jake Gyllenhaal movie.

[612] Day after tomorrow?

[613] The day after tomorrow.

[614] Yeah.

[615] Okay.

[616] Where there's a huge tidal wave coming toward Manhattan.

[617] And so because of that, like 2 ,000 seagulls fly across, like, downtown New York City.

[618] and everyone just looks up and then keeps on going about their business and just like that many birds listen to the seagulls listen to them they don't just want your chips that's been that was great that was a great story okay great thank you i will i really needed something to to tide me over i will leave the house again i promise so this is a murder that happened in the late 80s and i and in orange county and i somehow always forget that it's a hometown of mine and that I remember seeing it happen on the news.

[619] And I remember I must have seen The Made for TV movie about it because there's some parts of it that stick out in my brain and I was like under 10, but like in the back of my brain of like, oh yeah, I totally remembered that.

[620] And I remember being there and feeling this empathy for some of the characters.

[621] And I keep coming back to it because I keep forgetting to do it.

[622] And now finally today, I decided to do it hours before this.

[623] You were meant to record.

[624] We're doing our best.

[625] And yet I did it.

[626] you did it and you made it so this is this crazy story of manipulation and lies and it gets turned into a fucking anne rule book yes which i didn't know until i studied it today called if you really loved me yes do you remember it second only to the stranger beside me if you really love me may have been the next one that came out or something it's the murder of linda bailey brown wow do you know this story i don't think so okay i just know the title of that book's really well known okay it's bananas okay we should all read it next Okay.

[627] And I don't think we should listen to it because it's a bridge.

[628] So we should read it, bedside table, et cetera.

[629] It's a bridge.

[630] What do you mean?

[631] A bridged.

[632] Oh, a bridge.

[633] Terabithia?

[634] Heard of it?

[635] I don't want to go to Terabithia.

[636] Okay.

[637] The next book we're all going to read is a bridge to terabithia.

[638] The end.

[639] The fact that you had that book like right in hand is so awesome.

[640] Thank you.

[641] Okay, let's talk about 14 -year -old cinnamon brown.

[642] Okay.

[643] Which is really hard to Google because that's the color I dye my hair.

[644] Oh.

[645] It's kind of like, you know, and so it becomes a thing.

[646] It's two nouns.

[647] Yes.

[648] But it's a cute name.

[649] Anyways, that's not the point of this.

[650] Okay.

[651] 14 -year -old cinnamon brown.

[652] She seems like a typical pre -teen or teenager in the 1980s.

[653] She's pretty.

[654] She stays out of trouble for the most part.

[655] She's really likable.

[656] It has friends, you know, things like this.

[657] In the 1991 made for TV movie Love Lies and Murder.

[658] Okay.

[659] She's played by Moira Kelly.

[660] Yes.

[661] Do you know her?

[662] Moira Kelly is from the ice skating movie.

[663] Which one's that?

[664] It's the ice skater and the guy who plays.

[665] No, that's the one where they do the...

[666] Oh, yeah.

[667] And that was filmed Petaluma.

[668] I'm not kidding.

[669] What's it called?

[670] With Sylvester Stallone.

[671] Risk wrestling competition.

[672] Yeah.

[673] Is that what that's called?

[674] Yeah.

[675] Or arm wrestling.

[676] Arm wrestling.

[677] We call it wrist wrestling.

[678] That's silly.

[679] But you made the movie, so you should know.

[680] You know the rom -com where the guy is a hockey player.

[681] Yes, that's the one.

[682] Yeah.

[683] Moira Kelly's the girl in that.

[684] She lived in Garden Grove, which Stephen knows we in Orange County called Garbage Grove.

[685] Okay.

[686] Not for any reason.

[687] It's actually a really lovely suburb, but what a great name to call it.

[688] Yeah, that's a good slam.

[689] It's very garbage pale kids of you.

[690] We're just kind of doing a slight twist.

[691] You'll remember it from a sublime song, et cetera.

[692] Of course I will.

[693] Because you only, you, Karen, because you know the whole catalog.

[694] I write the lyrics out in my notebook.

[695] The notebook, that's your favorite book?

[696] That you would only read.

[697] Okay.

[698] All right.

[699] It's quiet.

[700] Severo in Orange County.

[701] She lives there with her dad.

[702] He's a 37 -year -old super wealthy computer businessman.

[703] Whatever that.

[704] God, that sounds young to me. I know.

[705] It's like people having children.

[706] It's younger than me. But he's like a grown -up, too.

[707] like if you've seen photos of him he's like he's played by uh clancy brown yes uh you you mean the owner of the crusty crab yeah yeah from sponge job so he he was in pet cemetery too which was what they in the um in the trailer for this member tv movie that go and from pet cemetery too like that's his major credit then in 91 but then i went and looked at his own tv and he has done so many fucking voiceovers like that's his thing yes but he's also a great actor yeah he's like a you know one of the unsung actors.

[708] Character actors.

[709] Yeah.

[710] He always plays like a sheriff.

[711] Yes.

[712] Yes.

[713] Type of guy.

[714] Right.

[715] So he's the dad.

[716] He's 37 -year -old David Brown.

[717] He's a computer wizard.

[718] He had been a millionaire by the time he was 32.

[719] Like this guy, you know, he lives with, so Cinnamon lives with him and his new wife, 23 -year -old Linda Marie Brown, played by Catherine DeProom.

[720] DeProom.

[721] I don't, she's in Firewalk with me, Twin Peace Firewalk with me. Oh, as who?

[722] I don't know.

[723] Okay.

[724] I don't know.

[725] She nailed it.

[726] She got into two things.

[727] Pretty blonde woman.

[728] Okay.

[729] So, but still, she, did you say 24?

[730] 23, and he's 37.

[731] Yeah.

[732] Right.

[733] That's a bit of a, that's very Orange County in that era.

[734] Yeah.

[735] Maybe.

[736] Like the divorce, right?

[737] Right, that's true.

[738] Second wife?

[739] Nope.

[740] Fourth wife.

[741] hello clancy brown what's going on his fourth wife at 37 i think it's her fourth marriage his fourth marriage and i think one of the other marriages was to her so i love those yeah the like get divorced thing get remarried yes that's pretty special it's so dramatic it is and what a waste of paperwork lots of money too um so so linda is david's fourth marriage um the first his first marriage was cinnamon's mother that had ended in infidelity when cinnamon was four and so she had kind of been back and forth between her mom and dad since then um and linda the the wife had met david when she was just 13 or 14 years old oh yeah and he was in his early 20s so linda was living at home with her abusive alcoholic mother and her 10 fucking siblings no which like isn't a thing in orange county either unless you're Mormon that's also that's very 50s it's like yeah Because this, did you say it's the 80s?

[742] It's the 80s, yeah.

[743] I didn't, being from Orange County, I don't think I knew anyone.

[744] There was one Mormon family that had five siblings and everyone else.

[745] Like, we were weird for being three.

[746] It's like, doesn't happen.

[747] Yeah, we had one family that, but it's Catholics.

[748] Yeah.

[749] But that's very old school Catholic.

[750] Yeah.

[751] So, David sweeps in and he's like a knight and churning armor.

[752] It provides a family with food.

[753] He kind of acts like a father figure.

[754] He takes care around and throws his money around and presses.

[755] impresses the alcoholic abusive mother as only a sociopath can do she and she's real tough to please yeah because you know how hard that is yeah so david tells the mother that he's dying of colon cancer he only has six months to live he's really weak so he's having a hard time around the house can he can linda her teenage her like 13 14 year old daughter and another one of linda's little sisters come help around the house his house he'll pay them for help out and the mom's like great, I'm an alcoholic.

[756] I have a ton of other kids to worry about to get them out of here.

[757] Great.

[758] Then, so miraculously, though, David beats the cancer that he never had.

[759] Jesus.

[760] It's a very special place in health, the people that claim to have cancer and do not.

[761] No, totally.

[762] And by then, Linda, who's 15 at this point, is in love, madly in love with David.

[763] They're having a sexual relationship at this point.

[764] Oh, shit.

[765] Yeah.

[766] So he's in his 20.

[767] late 20s now she's 15 that's pedophilia uh -huh and linda's in love with him so uh finally at 17 she gets permission to marry david and uh let's see they get back to they get together linda brings Linda moves in with david and brings her little sister patty to live with cinnamon who now lives with her dad david okay and linda so cinnamon patty is two years older than cinnamon okay um and cinnamon had been struggling with her parents divorce they admittedly used her as a pawn between the two of them to get back at each other um and linda the wife's now 23 she had had just had a baby girl seven months before oh named crystal okay so does that all make sense there's a lot of girls names yes i think so patty's the little sister cinnamon is the original daughter yeah she's the od um there's a new baby named crystal which is Makes it, what, 1986?

[768] Hang on now.

[769] With a K. No. I'm so fucking Lutley with a K. Come on.

[770] That's such a period of time.

[771] Orange County.

[772] That's right.

[773] What up Crystal.

[774] And all crystals with a K across the nation.

[775] Yes.

[776] What up?

[777] Hi, gals.

[778] So, uh, all right.

[779] So that's where everything stood the morning, in the early morning hours of March 19th, 1985.

[780] Wow.

[781] Here we are.

[782] I'm really close.

[783] Four years old, like 20 minutes.

[784] away sleeping probably yes let's hope god when cinnamon woke up in the middle of the night so she's 14 wakes up in the middle of the night walks into her stepmother linda's bedroom where linda's sleeping alone david's not there she points a 38 caliber gun uh to linda's chest and shoots her point blank with two silver tipped bullets oh my god yeah 14 year old cinnamon i didn't i was was trying to guess you were wrong not no that wasn't in there yeah police are called and they get there and find david uh the father who at the time of this shooting had been at a local convenience store uh he it's confirmed by the store clerk that he was there buying comic books and pre -packaged fruit pies which abs so fucking lately sign me up for that i mean yeah that's what that's what a convenience store's for right and and so he's standing there with his wife's younger sister Patty, who I think is 17 at the time, and Patty's holding the baby.

[785] They're both straw.

[786] They're saying, Patty's saying, David said they got home.

[787] Patty told me she heard some gunshots and she's freaking out.

[788] I'm too scared to go in the back bedroom and look what, what happened.

[789] I can't go back there.

[790] I peeked in and I saw Linda's arm hanging off the bed and some blood, but I'm just, I'm too freaked out to go back there.

[791] And so they, they take Linda, she's still breathing.

[792] Oh, they pack her up and take her to the hospital but she dies pretty quickly after that yeah from the gunshot wounds and cinnamon is nowhere to be found um officers scoured the neighborhood and they can't find her they call her friends and her to see if they're with she's with her friends friends are all fucking shocked to hear about this because to them and to cinnamon's mother this is not like cinnamon at all she's a sweet kind funny girl she's obedient to her father who she adores and just like is such a huge fan of her dad's they said that linda and cinnamon seemed to get along, so they don't know why she would shoot her set mother.

[793] And also that she seemed a lot younger than her 14 years.

[794] She was kind of, you know, not immature, but what's the innocent child?

[795] But finally at around 5 a .m., and this is the part that I remember hearing the first time as five or six -year -old being like, picturing it perfectly in my mind, and I can still see what I saw that.

[796] Around 5 a .m., an officer is in the backyard of the house and notices that, there is a figure laying in the doghouse.

[797] There's a backyard.

[798] There's a dog house.

[799] He sees something going on in there.

[800] There he finds 14 -year -old cinnamon.

[801] She's frail and scared.

[802] She's nearly comatose.

[803] Curled in the field position.

[804] She'd been there for hours and was soaked in her own urine and also surrounded by her own vomit in which are these tiny orange pills from the three bottles of pills she had swallowed to try to overdose on after the shooting.

[805] In her hand, she's clutching a crumpled suicide note and it reads, Dear God, please forgive me, I didn't mean to hurt her.

[806] Oh, no. They take her to the hospital.

[807] Just kidding.

[808] They take her to the police station.

[809] No. They take her directly to the police station, even though she's continuing to vomit from her.

[810] Ovidows.

[811] Yeah.

[812] Medics check her and say, no, it's okay to continue with questioning her.

[813] She's okay.

[814] Jesus Christ.

[815] So she admits that she fired the gun that killed her stepmom.

[816] She said she didn't get along with her.

[817] And, Linda had told her she was going to kick her out of the house and she thought Linda was jealous of her relationship with her dad and that Linda had threatened to kill her if she didn't move out and that's why she did it Jesus and that's what she tells them her condition starts to deteriorate so she's finally taken the fucking hospital and there she's handcuffed to the hospital bed she's starting to go uh fall into unconsciousness when she starts to mumble some stuff and so a nurse is like what this sounds like something like um it sounds rehearsed like she's repeating a list, I'm going to write it down.

[818] So she writes down this, having slept in 24 hours, had an accident, killed my stepmom, killed my stepmother, didn't want to do it on, didn't do it on purpose, didn't mean to, she was hurting me, she hated me, she wanted to kill me, she wanted me out of the house.

[819] And then she falls into unconsciousness.

[820] But she does survive and she's okay.

[821] So according to David, her dad, Linda, the stepmom and cinnamon, had gotten in a fight that night, as they often did.

[822] They often bickered.

[823] And Linda had sent Cinnamon to where she stayed and, like, slept and hung out.

[824] There was, like, a travel trailer in the back, I don't know, like, an airstream kind of thing, I'm assuming, where Cinnamon slept and lived, because the house was so small, she'd come in for food and, like, to use the bathroom and stuff like that.

[825] So Linda had sent her to her trailer, and they, and so David and Linda had continued fighting.

[826] he stormed out of the house which is why he was gone when this thing took place and when he finally got home is when he found patty uh saying that there had that something happened that linda had that she had heard shots in linda's room and that cinnamon had also tried to shoot her because there was one bullet in uh patty's room too so there were three shots shit um but when they questioned david again 24 hours after the incident his story changes in slight ways that contradict what Patty is saying.

[827] And so Patty had said that after Linda had gone to sleep, Cinnamon had come to her with a gun and was like, hey, can you show me how to use this?

[828] Which is like, don't do it.

[829] Right?

[830] But she shows her how to use it.

[831] Doesn't think anything of it and goes to bed.

[832] Let's see.

[833] Okay.

[834] Of course, this seems totally fucking fishy to detectives, right?

[835] Yes.

[836] But Cinnamon's admitting everything.

[837] She's saying that that she did it, she wanted her stepmom dead, but she couldn't give them a good reason why.

[838] She just said she wanted to, and she told him exactly what happened.

[839] And David did tell them that it fit with her current mental state because a couple weeks earlier she had tried to OD on aspirin, so it was like maybe she was depressed or something.

[840] She goes to Juvie, she goes straight from the hospital to Jovey, and on August 7th, 1985, Cinnamon's trial begins.

[841] So she pleads not guilty by reason of insanity.

[842] At this point, she's interviewed by a psychiatrist and she doesn't remember anything about it.

[843] Okay.

[844] A night or why she would have done it.

[845] She doesn't know anything.

[846] And the psychiatrist, who's treating her, says that she didn't know right from wrong the night of the murder.

[847] Ooh.

[848] But in her original story from the night of the murder, when they took her straight from the fucking doghouse to the police station is actually not admissible.

[849] so they don't have that anymore.

[850] What they do have, though, is the nurse's testimony and what the nurse wrote down about what she was babbling while she was fucking incoherent, basically.

[851] Right.

[852] So the prosecution uses that.

[853] And with that, she is found guilty of first -degree murder.

[854] Yeah.

[855] Her father doesn't show up to her trial.

[856] What?

[857] She thinks that, you know, maybe he's mad at her killing his wife, which is like...

[858] Sure.

[859] Okay.

[860] But David does show up at the sentencing hearing, but detectives are like skeeve the fuck out by this dude because they he's like smiling and acting like a little kid his ex -wife is sitting in the chair you know cinnamon's mom in front of him and he's like kicking at it like pulling her hair flirtatiously and shit and he's just being a fucking weirdo and they're just like this is weird this dude's that's so uncomfortable isn't it creepy that's crazy yeah that's your boy clancy way to go um so cinnamon is sent him to 27 years to life for the murder of her stepmother, but because she's a juvenile, she's sent to a youth facility until no later than 25 years old.

[861] So that happens.

[862] Great.

[863] Okay.

[864] The original investigator on the case with the DA, Jay Newell, had never felt comfortable about this at all.

[865] He knew there was something fucking going on here.

[866] That was more than what Cinnamon was telling them.

[867] Yeah.

[868] But she was a minor.

[869] And so he kind of just kept an eye on everyone.

[870] He would put, he would put, it's like straight up like the sinner the first season of the sinner I was just gonna say doesn't it sound like that remember she was just like no I've just killed him I just killed him I'm going away I don't want to talk about it he's like there's something fucking going on yeah like remember when he was like show me how to shoot this heroin up yeah that's right I don't know how I fucking knew it um so he keeps at her though and he also continues to visit her and juvie just is like a friend because her dad stops visiting her oh it's the noblest of cops I know the noblest of homicide detectives right the ones who the person they're supposed to be trying to to yeah get found a guilty charge against and if their gut is wrong they're actually they don't want to yeah they don't want it they don't want that guilty charge if it doesn't count yeah because normal people with ethics are like no we want justice to be certain right want the right person to be in jail not just someone right in jail especially if it's a fucking 14 year old girl so and he puts money in her commissary, make sure she's taking care of and shit.

[871] Meanwhile, her dad's richest shit, but he's not doing that.

[872] He's just gone.

[873] So, meanwhile, Patty and David, the David, the dad, and Patty, the sister of the now dead wife, Linda.

[874] Don't tell me. No, no. They're living together.

[875] So they continue to live together.

[876] Baby Crystal with a K is still like she's taking care of her.

[877] The house is falling apart.

[878] So a friend of Linda's offers to help come over and, like, pack up Linda's stuff and take care of some things around the house.

[879] I think she's played by, um, what's her face from Sex and the City.

[880] She can't control?

[881] No, do not, guess another one.

[882] Cynthia Nixon?

[883] Yes.

[884] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[885] She's played by her, I believe.

[886] She notes that Patty is taken to wearing Linda's clothing.

[887] 17 year old Patty is wearing her dead older sister's clothing.

[888] She's sitting in her, in what was Linda's chair.

[889] And she'd replace all of them as pictures with pictures of herself.

[890] Oh.

[891] there's not necessary.

[892] You can have you can keep the pictures and then add more pictures.

[893] And actually this story reminds me a lot of the story from the teacher's pet.

[894] Yes.

[895] That really great podcast that we should all listen to.

[896] Amazing.

[897] If you haven't listened to the teacher's pet, you absolutely have to.

[898] It's from the Australian.

[899] Yes.

[900] The newspaper of the Australian.

[901] And it's just done so well.

[902] And it's one of those things too where it's like this is this is red flag city.

[903] Yes.

[904] But no one ever noticed it.

[905] In the 80s, red flag city hadn't been established yet because if you, if there would be nobody there to raise the red flag because everything was like mind your own business.

[906] I don't want to, yeah, fucking 80s were a red flag.

[907] They were tough.

[908] The whole thing was a red flag.

[909] Sorry, can I just ask really quick?

[910] Do you remember who played the cop that was trying to be on cinnamon side?

[911] No, because they don't, they don't name the cop's real name.

[912] You know what I mean?

[913] So I couldn't find this guy, Jane Newell.

[914] It was like, it was like sergeant.

[915] Someone else.

[916] It wasn't like, you know what I mean.

[917] And there was multiple.

[918] I bet you could find it.

[919] If Stevens wants to look.

[920] Can you?

[921] Oh, shit.

[922] He's got it.

[923] I was going to say there's, um, there is a sergeant Patterson.

[924] That's probably him.

[925] And he's a Paul Holesish kind of looking fellow.

[926] He reminds me of a Paul Holtz.

[927] John, John M. Jackson.

[928] Here's his IMDB.

[929] John Jackson played him.

[930] Who's that?

[931] You know, all these people, John Ashton, Nestor Serrano, you've seen all these people on every TV show like all character actors from forever and ever yes exactly amen yeah um they were on like one episode of like uh what's a show LA law yeah John Ashton you've seen on tons of stuff there's a couple of them and Nestor Serrano also has been in a million he's always the detective especially if it happens in LA yes love it okay so meanwhile they're all living together the fucking friend is like skeeved out by this shit the Patty also gets jealous of this friend when David and her are, if they're ever, like, alone together.

[932] Bad.

[933] It's just like, there's something fucking ain't right here.

[934] She's, she is convinced at this point.

[935] She gets the fuck out of her because she's like, I think Patty fucking killed her, killed Linda.

[936] I don't think Cinnamon did it.

[937] But she leaves and sticks to her own business.

[938] Right.

[939] Because it's the 80s.

[940] So, all right.

[941] Let's cut to three and a half years of cinnamon living at the California Youth Authority, fucking what was known as Juvie.

[942] right and I remember being really scared of going to juvie in orange county because the stories I heard from there as a young rebellious teen were like terrible it's like you can do shitty things but don't do anything shitty enough to end up in juvie because you won't make it well also I think people get a very romantic teenagers can be very romantic about like oh I'm going to get rested in that to make me this and it's like no it's going to break your fucking heart I don't want to deal with the other girls in fucking juvie they won't like me there's a lot a hair pulling and juvie.

[943] There's a lot of insulting.

[944] That's right.

[945] They'll be mean.

[946] They'll be mean.

[947] They'll pinch you.

[948] But then they also might make you sad.

[949] Oh my God.

[950] And what if you have a bond with them?

[951] I did go to rehab in Santa Ana with like girls, rehabby, like Juvie girls.

[952] And they were all lovely, sweet, very fucking traumatized girls.

[953] Yeah.

[954] And the stories that they told a group were heartbreaking.

[955] Even as a 13 year old, I was like, oh, I better fucking get my shit together.

[956] Yeah.

[957] They were really sad.

[958] So, uh, beep -bo -papa -b -b -b -b -da -da -da.

[959] Three and a half years in.

[960] Cinnamon is now 18, and Jay's been sticking around, our cop dude, and he can sense that she's ready to start talking and, like, maybe.

[961] He's stuck around for three years?

[962] He's just been, like, checking in on her and shit.

[963] Oh, God, bless him.

[964] Bless his heart.

[965] Bless his, he'll be played by Paul Holes in the movie we're writing about it.

[966] So, he consents, she's ready to talk about what happened.

[967] But there's some, he knows David's no longer visiting, and he is like, I know how to, how to get her to talk.

[968] and that is to tell her what's really going on in her with David right now oh no he's like once she finds out she's like I think she's been covering for David yeah for her father yeah who she fucking adores and like thinks the sun shines out as fucking asshole okay so what she tells him is this what he tells her is this so one number one after Linda's death David from the four life insurance policies he had taken out on Linda his wife got almost one million dollars in life insurance money.

[969] Sorry, and he already was a millionaire.

[970] And so he'd been living the fucking high life.

[971] He had multi -million dollar homes in Orange County.

[972] He was fucking living and up buying all the sweet shit.

[973] In his multimillion dollar home where he lives, as I said, with his former sister -in -law, Patty, now 20 years old.

[974] Guess what?

[975] What?

[976] Right before Cinnamon's sentencing, Patty and David got married.

[977] Yeah, I could see that one coming, even though it was the creepiest option of all.

[978] it always is you sensed it yeah so that's his sixth marriage or yeah his sixth marriage second within that family yep uh guess what they now have a baby daughter together oh no um so cinnamon brown is like okay fuck this dude yeah clearly this guy has been using me i'm fucking talking she tells authorities that her father orchestrated the entire scheme and patty was involved in it too whoa um she realizes that she's been totally conned by her dad and she tells him that the truth is that David is a fucking crazy manipulative, manipulative dude.

[979] It's almost like he could easily lead this cult.

[980] He was into young girls and he would manipulate them and tell him these crazy things and he was just really good at that stuff.

[981] Total sociopath.

[982] He had brainwashed his daughter into believing that Linda, David's wife, was going to kill her, him.

[983] Wait, David convinced cinnamon that Linda was trying to kill him.

[984] Him.

[985] Yeah.

[986] So, and that he and Patty together told Cinnamon for months that they needed her to kill Linda or David was either going to get killed or he'd have to leave town and never see her again because he'd had to run from Linda.

[987] What the fuck?

[988] Yeah.

[989] He told, they hounded her for months that they needed her help and they convinced her that as a minor, she wouldn't get any jail time for the murder.

[990] She'd maybe have to get some fucking therapy, but that was it.

[991] And he said, if you really love me, you'll do this for me. I'm your father and I know it's best.

[992] Oh my God.

[993] Yeah.

[994] And they said that Linda was trying to kill him to get his money in his business.

[995] But what was really happening is he's having an affair with a teenager and trying to get rid of his already very young wife.

[996] Mm -hmm.

[997] Who just had the other baby who he was obsessed with since she was a teenager or he'd been fucking since she was a teenager too.

[998] Now that she's 20 -something and has a baby, he's not interested anymore.

[999] Because he's a straight -up pedophile.

[1000] Similarly to the teacher's pet story.

[1001] Yes.

[1002] And now he's trading her in for her fucking younger teenage sister.

[1003] Wow.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] That's evil.

[1006] And a great way to do it is to get your daughter, who is young and naive by everyone's account to do it for you.

[1007] To commit murder.

[1008] Hold on.

[1009] Okay.

[1010] It gets worse.

[1011] No. Yeah.

[1012] Sinan says the night of the murder, Patty told her that she had overheard Linda on the phone saying, like, we need to kill David right away.

[1013] and so that in the middle of the night David woke Patty and Cinnamon up and said to them girls it has to be done tonight Oh my God he originally told Cinnamon that she needs to make it seem like she tried to kill herself out of guilt of the murder so he says she needs to once she kills Linda she needs to shoot herself in the head but just graze your head so it looks like a suicide attempt it'll be just a scratch he tells her but she says she's too scared and so instead he says okay how about instead take these three bottles of pills um you they're not enough to kill you you'll be fine and so she does that so she says she swallows the pills she sees her dad drive away and then she goes down to the dog house and from there she holds the three gunshots inside the house as patty killed the sister wait but so the case is reopened they need corroboration so they get cinnamon to wear wire they have david come to visit she's like i'm i can't freaking out I don't know.

[1014] You told me I wouldn't get any time.

[1015] Why am I still here?

[1016] You said I wouldn't be here for long.

[1017] And he had been so he won't admit to it though and he continues to try to manipulate her.

[1018] He tells her that Patty can just come take her place.

[1019] He can work it out to just have them to switch place and like she'll come take care of like come take the rest of the time.

[1020] Yeah.

[1021] And they can convince everyone that Patty was the killer.

[1022] He can range for it.

[1023] But then Jay who's listening on the wire is like something's fucking off about.

[1024] this.

[1025] Cinnamon is not telling me the truth.

[1026] I can tell.

[1027] So she finally admits that she actually was the one who pulled the trigger, but everything else is true.

[1028] They fucking manipulated her into doing it.

[1029] She didn't understand what's going to happen.

[1030] She said, David, her dad gave her a pillow and told her to hold it over the trigger when shooting Linda and then said to them, you girls take care of business while I'm gone and left.

[1031] So Cinnamon had gone in, held the pillow, shot her once, but the pillow had jammed the gun, so she brings it back over into Patty's room and is like, I don't know what's happening with this gun.

[1032] It goes off, which is why there was a shot in her room.

[1033] Oh, uh -huh.

[1034] Apparently, like, grazing, almost hitting Crystal the baby.

[1035] She's fine.

[1036] But then they hear Linda moaning in the other room because she's still alive.

[1037] She goes back in and shoots her one last time.

[1038] Oh, no. Then she takes the pills and goes down to the doghouse.

[1039] Jay asked Cinnamon, if David had shown her, if David was the one to show her where to shoot yourself in the head when he was like, you'll graze your head and cinnamon says, yeah.

[1040] And that's when she realizes that if she had shot herself the way he showed her to do it, it wouldn't have grazed her.

[1041] It would have killed her.

[1042] Yes.

[1043] And that's when she realizes he was trying to kill her too.

[1044] Um, and in fact, the pills she took, the only reason she didn't die from them is because she threw up in the doghouse.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] So she absolutely would have died from the, the pills.

[1047] Um, she realizes that's going on, then they realized that he had insurance policies out against her, too.

[1048] Of course.

[1049] So he was trying to kill both of them.

[1050] Oh, God.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] And pin the whole thing on his daughter that he killed.

[1053] He's a fucking psycho.

[1054] Psycho.

[1055] Like Anne Rule, I think, was more afraid of him than he was.

[1056] She was of Ted Bundy.

[1057] She said he was like the biggest manipulator or sociopath she's ever seen.

[1058] Well, and also just to just keep on doing it within the family.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] I mean, there is something really especially heinous about it.

[1061] It gets worse, worse.

[1062] Oh, my God.

[1063] Yep, sorry.

[1064] It's okay.

[1065] I like it.

[1066] I know, right.

[1067] Patty and David are arrested.

[1068] Patty's 20 by now.

[1069] They're arrested, and David frantically writes to Patty to try to keep her loyalty to him in prison.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] But she turns on him too when she hears the wiretap of him saying, we'll get Patty to take the blame for it and fuck this shit.

[1072] This guy's like idiot.

[1073] He's not smart.

[1074] He's not smart.

[1075] Like with a super monster he is.

[1076] Also, it's funny on like those, like a sociopath or whatever psychopath, but like, like, Like, the, the charm doesn't really work on paper.

[1077] It's like, it really is a person to person, face -to -face thing.

[1078] So, like, the idea that he's trying to put all that manipulation and charm down on the page.

[1079] Well, what doesn't, what we understand about controlling people is that the reason that people like this who are crazy controlling make you not have any friends and family, like, around you anymore is because the minute you're not in that, in that person's, like, orbit anymore, it all falls apart in cracks.

[1080] Yes.

[1081] Because of reality.

[1082] And if you have, like, just one bitchy friend that's like, sorry, that guy's got fucking weird eyes.

[1083] Yeah, I don't like him.

[1084] He leans in too far when he's talking.

[1085] Totally.

[1086] And he acts like he's in love with you and he's fucking lying.

[1087] Yeah, exactly.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] That's right.

[1090] That's why you always have to be the friend who hates your friend's boyfriend.

[1091] You have to.

[1092] It's for their own good.

[1093] It's for their own good.

[1094] Unless.

[1095] What?

[1096] I don't know.

[1097] Unless you're the psycho.

[1098] Unless you're the shitty friend.

[1099] What if you're the friend who's a sociopath?

[1100] And he was like, your friend's a fucking sociopath.

[1101] I mean, there's all these possibilities of who I could be.

[1102] I have all the choices in the world.

[1103] He didn't mean you.

[1104] I know.

[1105] You do always tell me to break up with Vincent.

[1106] I'm like, he is hurting you behind your back.

[1107] Listen, I only hit on him to see if he would do anything about it.

[1108] Then he didn't.

[1109] Which means he's a good guy.

[1110] It was a test.

[1111] I'm so happy for you.

[1112] It was a test.

[1113] I made it up.

[1114] So, so he's trying to get her to not talk.

[1115] but she turns on him too.

[1116] So, and part of the reason is because when she got, so when they got married, he was like, it's secret, don't tell anyone because, of course, the police would be like, what the fuck, but also because she was a child and everyone would judge him.

[1117] So she proceeded that.

[1118] Then she got knocked up by him and he was like, we're telling everyone that you had an affair and it's not my kid because you're too young and it's creepy.

[1119] That's only after he tried to get her to get an abortion.

[1120] And she was like, fuck no, but tell everyone that some other dude knocked you up.

[1121] God.

[1122] And he makes, he refuses to pay for any of the, uh, the baby having business, you know.

[1123] Medical costs.

[1124] Thank you.

[1125] Um, and.

[1126] Sorry.

[1127] The super millionaire.

[1128] Uh -huh.

[1129] He's like, you have to pay for it.

[1130] He's even more of a millionaire because of his murders.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] And he's like, sorry.

[1133] That she helped fucking, uh, make happen.

[1134] That would not have happened with.

[1135] her.

[1136] Right.

[1137] Jesus Christ.

[1138] So when their daughter's Heather is born, their daughter is Heather's born, he refuses to pay medical, um, her having to do with her, but he does take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of life and turns on the baby.

[1139] So she's like, you know what?

[1140] Go fuck yourself.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] Go back.

[1143] She tells police that they had been planning the murder of her sister for three years together and that cinnamon hadn't even brought into the last two months.

[1144] Whoa.

[1145] They had tried Patty had tried to kill her sister once too, but she couldn't go through it.

[1146] She chickened out.

[1147] instead they're like let's have cinnamon do it she's a minor convince her to do it then patty drops all right here's the last it gets worse okay she tells them that david had been molesting her since she was 11 years old oh my god so this is one i kind of don't it kind of clears her she was just as big of a pawn as he was as cinnamon was that entire time yeah so she'd been manipulated and controlled probably longer than cinnamon had yes and being victimized and abused right and sorry do we know that cinnamon was not molested that never ever came out and i don't think so yeah um it it almost seems like she was off limit somehow in like a pawn in the with the ex -wife right who fucking knows maybe yeah yeah no no i it oh my god i know like he it it wouldn't surprise me this guy's a monster also just the sad thing we were just talking about this before we started um recording but it's that horrifying thing of like when those pedophiles and those predators, they pick people who have divorced parents.

[1148] They pick kids who don't have advocates that stand around going get the fuck out of here.

[1149] They make sure to pick the 11th child of the alcoholic family.

[1150] Well, it turns out that she had left her alcoholic mother's house when she left to move in with David and Linda because she had been molested at that house.

[1151] I'm sure some dude who rolled through.

[1152] Right.

[1153] So yeah, She was, you know, just this, this clear victim and was taken advantage of by this fucking monster.

[1154] And I feel like if that is normalized to you at such a young age, then when he's, it's like, it's not, um, uh, it to that child's mind, that's a norm.

[1155] Well, David, David told her lots amended that to teach young women about sex.

[1156] That's what he told them.

[1157] This is normal.

[1158] So he just normalized all of that victimization.

[1159] And then like the brainwashing was just a natural next step.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] And she lived in the house with him.

[1162] There's no way for her to like escape it.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] He's supposed to be a father.

[1165] Right.

[1166] Type.

[1167] It's fucking disgusting.

[1168] It's all horrifying.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] And then then, you know, they, they, they, then at 15 saying like, we need to get rid of your sister because I'm in love with you and I want you to be the white.

[1171] Like, so that her obsession of getting rid of her sister has to do with being special.

[1172] Keeping this guy who's been the one that, you know, quote unquote, take care.

[1173] of her and quote unquote love her right where if you have a life where you know no one ever loved you or acted right they loved you then you've got some millionaire with stars and his eyes over you so it's so sad too to think of linda the wife who had no idea in her mind this fucking night and shining armor came and saved her she had a baby and she was you know and she was saving her little sister and she got to raise cinnamon who by all accounts she actually did get along with oh And so she just had no idea that she was in an insanely unsafe situation and had no chance to escape it.

[1174] It was just like the fucking cobra was right there in the house.

[1175] It's so awful.

[1176] Isn't it?

[1177] So now in jail, David, okay, now David's in jail.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] He is going to go to trial for all this shit.

[1180] He hires a fellow inmate, a fellow prisoner to kill the Orange County Deputy District Attorney.

[1181] Jeffrey Robinson.

[1182] Investigator Jay Newell, are Paul holes of the story.

[1183] And to also kill the third victim, his fucking ex, his wife, Patty.

[1184] So he hires him to kill this dude to kill all these people.

[1185] Because she'd become a key witness at this point.

[1186] Jail house snitch.

[1187] Fucking snitches get lollipops, as we always say.

[1188] Snitches get candy.

[1189] Was like, guess what?

[1190] And so that, thank God, didn't happen.

[1191] so at the trial also just sorry about the ego of that like I'm not just going to kill the deputy district attorney which is like good luck huge yeah like you think you wouldn't get caught but I'm also going to kill like people who are doing their jobs because you're a monster and terrifying and you're where you're supposed to be and you're going to kill them because you're mad at them for fucking doing their jobs for doing their jobs and keeping you it's super psycho and the place you need to be right and top of which it's that idea that a person that's psychotic would also have that much money yeah that's what's scary oh yeah because i'm sure it's that thing that trump thing of like anyone will do anything i say because i have so much money i buy people off and i buy bye bye bye and it's fucking true yeah once you can just throw money at anyone you don't have to be you know a good person and not at all you want to you get anything you want that's right so gross um so at the trial both cinnamon and patty testify against him so according to cinnamon's testimony and this is why this book is called that the thing her father would say repeatedly to gain her cooperation in the murder scheme was he would repeat if you loved me you would do this for me yeah if you loved me you'd do this like so that's how it worked um an orange county jury took less than seven hours to convict david brown on first degree murder for a financial gain and conspiracy conspiracy um the judge said that he was worse than charles manson oh shit like i've i've never i've never seen a bigger fucking sociopath even Charles Manson than you.

[1192] Wow.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] Because Charles Manson did it to fucking strangers.

[1195] You know what I mean?

[1196] Like, you did this shit to fucking people who love you.

[1197] That's right.

[1198] And trust you and are your family.

[1199] Like your own daughter.

[1200] Yeah.

[1201] And that orders David, who's at this point 37 years old, to spend the rest of his life in prison with no chance of parole.

[1202] In May of 1989, Patty, who is now 21, she pleads guilty in a sentence to the same youth facility that Cinnamon was at for about the same amount of time.

[1203] 25, into the age of 25, she's released when she's 25.

[1204] Cinnamon was released in February of 1992.

[1205] She got paroled, so she was still in there.

[1206] At 21, she's finally released.

[1207] So Cinnamon had served eight years in Juvie.

[1208] Jesus Christ.

[1209] So both Patty and Cinnamon went on to marry and have children, and it seems like they keep kind of quiet, which is crazy.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] And in March of 2014, David Brown, at 61 years old, died of natural causes in prison.

[1212] Yep.

[1213] And that is the story of the murder of Linda Bailey Brown.

[1214] God, damn.

[1215] That was every which way but loose.

[1216] How did I never do that?

[1217] It's like my hometown murder that I remember from fucking childhood.

[1218] Yeah, hometown.

[1219] That's crazy.

[1220] God, that's, I mean, it was just all the bad things in one thing.

[1221] He victimized every fucking woman that came near him and his family.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] Jesus Christ.

[1224] Young girl that he's dead.

[1225] me to manipulate it and I mean truly like a cult like you know cult leader mentality yes and really so merciless just like really just a unrepentant pedophile yeah a selfish greedy how fucking many more millions of dollars do you need totally totally you psycho it's just so bananas um so let's all read the book and rule book and rule books I'm sure there's just a ton more horrible information in there.

[1226] Yeah, I bet there is.

[1227] Yeah.

[1228] And the annual twist, which is how she explains things in that loving, motherly way.

[1229] And I think she interviews him in prison, too.

[1230] Interviews him?

[1231] Uh -huh.

[1232] Oh, shit.

[1233] Or I have to read that book.

[1234] Or we can just watch the movie Love Lies and Murder.

[1235] It's on YouTube.

[1236] It's like two and a half hours long or some shit.

[1237] Guys, that's that's, I can tell you.

[1238] like that download that for the plane flight yeah hey hey all right so what's your fucking hooray um i will say this now yoga has gone to the wayside a bit totally but but only because i've started my new swimming regimen i was um i did it all this week every morning karen i got up in the morning and swam and thank you i'm so happy for you thank you so much i know it felt really good i don't know I finally put it together when we were when we were away on our on the last tour weekend I was like I need I need to do something because this like the the foot thing is really fucked up right and I just don't feel good I don't like the way I look so I want to feel better and then I was like I texted my dog sitter because she stays with my dogs at the house and I was like do me a favor would you just flip on that pool heater for me because I was like why spend the money on the thing that that's actually going to be like help you and be you know right right outside your door and so I the first morning it was pretty cold um by today when I got in it today it was like cozy warm how many lapsed because I have a pool I can use too how many I mean I just put on my I put on the um stopwatch for and I just let it go to a half an hour and you just go back and forth back and forth and I try to do I stop and tread water and try to do things with my legs to stretch out the muscle along the back of my leg because that's the reason that the planar fasciitis is or fasciitis is so bad um so i just am trying to do a lot of leg work um and a treading water but then i just do i start off with like at least 10 laps of kind of dog paddling where i keep my head above that's all that matters is you're moving yes exactly and it's like and swimming is full body and you can kind of do way more like i should say i can do way more than normal because it doesn't feel so like, ugh, and you're not like, I'm sweating.

[1239] You don't, you can't tell.

[1240] What I love about swimming too is that you can't listen to anything.

[1241] So it's kind of the Zen in your head.

[1242] Yes.

[1243] Moment.

[1244] It clears you out really good.

[1245] And for me, like, it is such a good stress reliever.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] Because I've just been feeling, as you well know, so stressed out lately and have for so long, it's been like this cumulative, like two -year stress that's been so hard for both of us at times.

[1248] What are you talking about?

[1249] I've had a great couple.

[1250] And gratitude.

[1251] But I mean, like, this dress is tough.

[1252] And I just, if I just keep eating fucking pizza about it, it'll only go one way.

[1253] And so, yeah.

[1254] So it's just like I, I've been doing that every morning.

[1255] And then I also, at one point, I ordered a robe when I was getting some clothes for New York.

[1256] I was like, oh, I'm also going to get a robe that's like a towel so I can just get out of the pool and have a big thirsty robe on.

[1257] Look at you.

[1258] So that's my new, I still want to do yoga, but my plan is to lose the initial weight and then get into like getting really flexible.

[1259] Whatever works for you.

[1260] I love that.

[1261] Me too.

[1262] It's fun.

[1263] I want to say, because this is, we're recording a Saturday night.

[1264] And so by Thursday, a lot of shit might have gone down in, uh, the Supreme Corps.

[1265] In the world.

[1266] Yes.

[1267] And so we don't want to seem like we're ignoring it.

[1268] I just want to let everyone.

[1269] know that's a very good point it's been a really fucking shitty week and listen we support dr for at 100 percent and if anyone's fucking surprised by that you haven't listened to this podcast there's also watching that we we spent the entire day at work watching that testimony it speaks for itself yeah i mean that's that's the thing this isn't political for us this is a believing a woman's fucking truth and also seeing a man's behavior and knowing that that is indicative of something especially like as we have all listened to one million of these stories and watched one million true crime shows a person with that level of indignant like rage that's right there because you're talking about Kavanaugh's rage because from the beginning the way he was talking about how hard it's been for him and his family it was so so self -obsessed so fucking self -serving he never apologized to his family he didn't say right he was like you're doing it to my family and It's like, but what about what you did?

[1270] You stepped into this limelight.

[1271] You're trying to get this.

[1272] You're here for this job.

[1273] You're trying to get this fucking job.

[1274] And then this is your past.

[1275] So you have an apology to make.

[1276] We've all, every woman I know, including us, we've been through some shit like this.

[1277] Similar to what Dr. Ford is talking about.

[1278] And we know when we fucking see in a woman's eye and her voice and her story that she's being honest because it's vulnerable.

[1279] and terrifying, but it's important to tell the story.

[1280] So, yeah.

[1281] And I would just like to say this, too, because there's been a couple good threats on Twitter about this.

[1282] The thing that people keep missing that I think there's these people that keep arguing, like, it's the calendars from 30 years ago, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what was in his yearbook, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.

[1283] Technically, perhaps, but what we're trying to talk about is the difference between a good man and a bad man. We're trying to delineate and just decide, is this person a supreme, a Supreme Court justice who can be neutral, who can make decisions, who won't bring in biases, who won't bring in secret hatreds, issues.

[1284] This man has serious fucking issues with women.

[1285] And you know that because of his find him, finger him, fuck them and forget him.

[1286] All the shit that was in that yearbook is all there.

[1287] It's all coded wording for different ways to be shitty to women.

[1288] I think of the good men you know, did they ever talk like that when they were in fucking high school?

[1289] No. No. Stephen never put four Fs in his fucking.

[1290] I mean, and also how lame.

[1291] There's so many great men that when girls are drunk at a party, they take them home and put them to bed.

[1292] And as one of these threads that I was reading on Twitter, put some Gatorade bite next to their bed and say, good night, I'll see you tomorrow.

[1293] That's right.

[1294] It happens.

[1295] This is not the standard that we have to accept in fucking men at all.

[1296] And by accepting this person into the highest fucking lifetime, you know, know, order, position, yeah, is telling other women that, that it does not fucking matter what happens to them.

[1297] And it does not matter if this, if you get victimized, it doesn't matter if you, uh, in your life were ever victimized.

[1298] It doesn't matter.

[1299] And the only thing that matters is what, what happens these men.

[1300] Yeah.

[1301] It just, so we are not skipping over this important thing.

[1302] We're just behind a couple days.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] I mean, and we're still angry from last week.

[1305] It was really fucking depressing.

[1306] Or maybe not.

[1307] You know, my fucking array is.

[1308] My friend Jocelyn Hughes, who's this lovely gal, texting me and a couple girls and said that day, I would have texted you, but it was during the day at work and it was going to get drinks during the day.

[1309] I can't handle this anymore.

[1310] Does anyone want to get drinks?

[1311] Nice.

[1312] So I sat around some really great gals and we talked instead of watching for a while and it was really soothing and it's nice to be, you know, as we always say, like, we're each other's allies we are not we are not each other's uh competitors yeah and so being surrounded by a bunch of rad chicks who i know to differing degrees have all been through something like this in their lives uh was really great and then i went and saw back at the bowl and it was really fucking great saw back at the hollywood bowl nice yeah that's a that's also a good point is do things if you're experiencing this feeling feeling triggered by it feeling stressed by it feeling set, reach out, get around people that understand what you're talking about.

[1313] Don't be around people that will argue with you.

[1314] Don't engage or spend time with people that go, it doesn't matter and this is a liberal, whatever.

[1315] Don't put yourself through it.

[1316] Take care of yourself.

[1317] Be around people who understand you.

[1318] And you don't have to accept anyone else's definition of what's quote unquote important or not.

[1319] Because with those people, it's never important that a woman was right.

[1320] Right.

[1321] It's never important that this happens all the time and that that's the culture we live in.

[1322] It's never important.

[1323] They do not care.

[1324] And they'll never believe women.

[1325] They'll never.

[1326] It doesn't matter.

[1327] It's just a certain mindset and they're not important and there are plenty of people you can find that get it.

[1328] That was a big episode for one that we're just trying to sneak in before we leave for tour.

[1329] I know.

[1330] And now we have to record two minisodes.

[1331] Let's do it.

[1332] And then sign 200 posters for the live shows.

[1333] We're fucking doing it.

[1334] This.

[1335] I'm going to open a can of wine.

[1336] Thank you so much.

[1337] Thank you so much for supporting us.

[1338] We are so lucky to be here with you guys.

[1339] And we're very excited to be traveling this weekend.

[1340] We're, we are in New York right now, really, technically, when this drops.

[1341] At the beacon tonight, the night, this very night.

[1342] Yes.

[1343] So, what's up, New York?

[1344] New York, Brooklyn, and fucking Medford.

[1345] And Medford, Massachusetts.

[1346] Can't wait to see you all.

[1347] Thanks so much for listening.

[1348] Stay sexy.

[1349] And don't get murdered.

[1350] Goodbye.

[1351] Bye.

[1352] Elvis, you want cookie?

[1353] Good boy.

[1354] Cookie?

[1355] He nailed it.

[1356] Yeah, you did good.