#662 - Vinny Shoreman

[0] All right, we're live.

[1] All right, ladies and gentlemen.

[2] Vinnie Shoreman, how are you, buddy?

[3] Hello, I'm fine.

[4] How are you?

[5] Good, good.

[6] Pull that mic up, get it right up there.

[7] Okay.

[8] We just did a hypnosis, hypnosis.

[9] How would you call it?

[10] Hypnotic session.

[11] Just a session, just a session.

[12] Mental training, mind stuff.

[13] Vinny is the man that Joe Schilling had experienced some fantastic results doing this with you.

[14] Joe Schilling, who's the world champion kickboxer or Bellator fighter, a guy who's been in here before.

[15] And he told me about you, and you and I went back and forth on Twitter and email, and then we finally got together today and did a hypnosis session.

[16] And I'm here to tell you, hypnosis is real.

[17] It does, you definitely go under, there's something happens.

[18] You go to some weird dream state, la -la land.

[19] How long was I under for?

[20] Four and a half days.

[21] Wow.

[22] I'm not hungry.

[23] I'm even hungry.

[24] To be honest, about, I'd say, 20 minutes.

[25] 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

[26] I kind of get lost in it, too, you know?

[27] It seems like, it seemed like five.

[28] No, it was longer than that.

[29] Yeah, it was longer than that.

[30] It was like, I remember the beginning part, and then all of a sudden it was over.

[31] I was like, whoa.

[32] And there was some weird dream state stuff going on in the middle where you were talking about some things, but I was thinking about other shit.

[33] But when I was thinking about shit, I was like, wow, I'm in a weird state of mind.

[34] now while I'm thinking about these other things like I better get back to on track about what Vinnie's talking about you know I think it's funny because it's I've done everything that I do with my clients and you've experienced I've experienced and you put it right yeah it is weird yeah it's weird because it's it works definitely works well there's different states that the brain operates in we all know that there's states when you're stressed out there's states when you're super happy there's states when you're very focused there's states and you're in danger the states and you're in love and we all know that these are weird places that your brain can go to, weird frequencies or weird vibrations or whatever you would call it.

[35] But to be able to manipulate it like that, to be able to put someone into a state like that or help them, assist them getting into a state like that.

[36] That's a very unique skill.

[37] Yeah, I mean, all hypnosis is self -hypnosis anyway.

[38] So you do it.

[39] I just guide you into it.

[40] and, you know, give you ways of just going into hypnosis is a natural state.

[41] Like we said, we said it was talking earlier, like, you know, you're driving, and all of a sudden you end up there and you think, shit, how did I get at it?

[42] I don't do that because I'm rubbish at driving.

[43] But, you know, other things where you just, it just seems, televisions, hypnosis, music's hypnosis, they're all different states, and we're all in different states all the time.

[44] So, like a movie that just captures you, and you don't even realize you're watching it, you're just totally captivated, you're inside, you're completely absorbed in the film.

[45] That's almost like a hypnotic state.

[46] Yeah, definitely, I mean, you know, clapping for Superman, for instance.

[47] We know Superman doesn't exist, unfortunately.

[48] Sorry to break anyone's hearts out there that love Superman.

[49] But, you know, it's just a part and parcel of using your imagination to get you to a place where you want to change.

[50] So, but that state that you achieve when you're, when you hypnotize, someone when you put someone in this really relaxed place and you have them focus on very specific things and you get them to this weird state where your mind is drifts off into that dreamland that's very different than a movie or very different than driving home in your car it's uh it's it's it's pretty intense yeah it is they're all they're all imaginative processes anyway you know they're all images of processes.

[51] But with hypnosis, you're focusing on a specific problem, normally.

[52] You know, you focus on a specific problem.

[53] So it's the leading to it.

[54] It depends, it depends how the client is.

[55] I don't always use hypnosis.

[56] I am a mind coach.

[57] I don't class myself as a hypnotist, although hypnotherapy is part and parts of what I do.

[58] I class myself as a mind coach because there's different facets to it, these different ways of leading people into various things and considerations about what they say.

[59] especially using language, when it's out of, out of sync sort of thing, doesn't make sense.

[60] And then you might, you know, have to make sense of it.

[61] And then unconsciously, you unconscious mind deciphers it and gets you the best results, really.

[62] Well, it's fascinating to me because for the longest time, mind coaches were sort of unheard of in combat sports.

[63] It was almost like it was a scarlet letter or, you know, a mark against you because you were, so weak that you needed someone to figure out how to hypnotize you or how to talk you into being strong you needed a coach you should just be a fucking man and get out there and do it right like that was the attitude that a lot of people had yeah in england say don't be so fucking soft going to be all right don't be so they say that in america too yeah but they don't say it with that same yeah i would say with the same cockney tone i don't know i did a cockney tone now from the north yeah i mean it was uh yeah it's all macho you know don't you know get on with it blah blah blah I've seen more people who are very, very skilled get beat by their own self.

[64] You've seen that, you know, their own minds.

[65] And then it can be a very, it can be very hard for people.

[66] Well, the reason why I was going to bring that up, because I think that fighting in particular is probably the most difficult of all chosen endeavors, outside of being a soldier.

[67] It's the most difficult of all chosen endeavors as far as chosen goals that you're trying to accomplish.

[68] What you're trying to accomplish is you're trying to use your body, use your bones and your muscle to defeat other people who are also using their bones and muscle.

[69] And the techniques are all readily available.

[70] There's no secrets anymore.

[71] I mean, there's a few secrets if you have really good coaches, you can get some tips.

[72] But essentially, everybody knows how to punch.

[73] everybody knows how to kick, and you're just trying to figure out how to maximize your possibilities, maximize your potential for victory, and how to not get in your own way, how to not trip over your own fears and anxiety, and that's where this mind coach thing comes into play, and that's where I think it's applicable not just for fighting, but also for just life in general.

[74] because I think that for a lot of people, their success or failure, a big part of it is predicated on how they view life and how they view themselves and how they approach each thing, each obstacle, each goal, each endeavor that they're attempting to solve or to give their own expression to.

[75] And I think that if it works on fighting, it'll probably work on anything.

[76] And if you can get someone to a better place mentally where they can become a more effective fighter and stay out of their own way as terms of their anxiety and their fears, like the reality of fighting is you're probably going to get hurt at some point in time.

[77] It's just part of what you're doing.

[78] You're in the hurt business.

[79] This is the hurt game.

[80] And somewhere along the line, you're going to get hit.

[81] and you're hopefully going to hit the other person more than they're going to hit you but bad things happen to great fighters and we've all seen it yeah I mean it's part and parts of everything you know if I can make it's not just about fighters I mean I do work with fighters because I come from a Muay Thai background I've been involved in it a long time 30 years now and it's you have to fighting's hard as you know of course but fighting yourself as well as an opponent as well as well trying to listen to your corner, as well as hearing people scream your name or other people screaming for them, other person to kick your ass.

[82] It's difficult.

[83] You have to kind of go within, you know, and control everything that you do and try and impose what you've got to do on the other person.

[84] Yeah, doubts and fear, there are extra weights that you carry into the ring.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Or into the cage.

[87] And in life, I mean, and again, it's analogous to life.

[88] doubts and fears on top of the reality of the difficulty of what are you trying to do whatever you're trying to do those doubts and fears they're like it's like a heavy weight vest that you're carrying on top of the burden of whatever you're trying to accomplish in the first place and for fighters it can be just smothering it can it i mean we've we've had many instances of guys backstage that either didn't fight or almost didn't fight because they're having anxiety attacks because they were freaking out because the moment was finally there and their mind was just running away from them yeah just right your their mind was trying to figure out a way out of this like yeah we can figure out a way out of this all we have to do is just go crazy here and the doctor will come over and you know how about you have a few heart palpitations and fall down you can't breathe and then the doctor's going to rescue you yeah oh you're ill no more fighting yeah you're ill I hope you're ill I hope to find something wrong me because I'm ill yeah everyone's considered that I mean I did the same I thought you know if you see that I'm ill I've got cough I'm ill and then I don't have to go in there but you know it's it's about controlling that fights are one and lost in the changing rooms sometimes a lot of the time you know but you could be the most confident you can be the most confident motherfucker on earth but if you're fighting Anderson sylvan is prime and you're not that good yeah you're probably still going to get lit up yep and that's that's a problem I mean you can getting yourself lit up as bad as you could as you would if you didn't do anything about it mm you know maybe you know there's only so much.

[89] Yeah, there is.

[90] Yeah, there is.

[91] I mean, everyone's going to be a champion.

[92] Right.

[93] That's fact.

[94] That is a fact.

[95] it's, you know, they don't throw these belts around here, the UFC and the WBC boxing.

[96] They don't just give you a belt, you know, and there's always, but from my point of view, I like seeing people conquer shit.

[97] Yes.

[98] That really debilitated.

[99] Whether they win, lose or draw, sometimes it's irrespective.

[100] It's the experience or of them saying, I did a lot better than I thought I would do and, you know, and all that sort of, and they can live with it.

[101] Some people lose and they just never forget it and it can haunt them for eternity really.

[102] Yeah, they define themselves.

[103] That's a real issue with human beings.

[104] They define themselves by their past failures.

[105] Even though they've learned from those mistakes, they always look at themselves.

[106] It's like, God, I'm the guy who did this.

[107] I'm the guy who shit his pants.

[108] I'm the guy who got in that car accident.

[109] I'm the guy who showed up late and got fired from my job.

[110] And you become, instead of a human being who has a lifelong, just a giant string of experiences, a lot of them that you've learned from and that you're better because of, instead you have the sting, like the emotional sting of those failures that just haunt people.

[111] And that's very common with people that they get haunted.

[112] That's why some people are haunted by high school, by grammar school and high school bullies.

[113] Yeah, definitely.

[114] Being bullied, like, define them during their formative state.

[115] And, you know, I've known a lot of fighters who, they've carried chips on their shoulders deep into their 40s from being bullied when they were in high school.

[116] That funny story, when I lived in a place in England called Macklesfield, and it's on a big hill where I used to live.

[117] And I've seen the guy who's lived next door to me, his mum, he used to live there as well.

[118] He was 60, something like that.

[119] And I've seen him at the top of the road, and he was stood at the top of road, and he was looking down on the bottom of the road like this.

[120] he was looking again and he was just stood there and I said what are you doing and he went there's two guys down there they used to bully me at school and waiting for him to go 60 60 years of age still He said I'm waiting for them to go Billy's name is and he was just stood there and waiting for him to go that I like to change and I would love to change it's sad think about it it's a long time you know for him to you know and it's a small town Macklesfield where he used to live so he's probably bumped into them he's probably avoided them in the store or the shops or whatever.

[121] So for 42, 43 years, this guy's been haunted.

[122] Maybe more.

[123] Maybe more.

[124] Because before then, in during school.

[125] I hate that.

[126] I just, you know, it's sad.

[127] It's a real sad situation.

[128] It is sad, but it also seems to be bizarrely and cruelly, a part of human nature, a part of animal nature.

[129] So if the animals fuck with other animals, they try to find the pecking order.

[130] Yeah.

[131] And it motivates the weak ones to be strong.

[132] It motivates people to stand up for themselves.

[133] And that's where, I mean, the bullying is a horrible thing, but bullying is also the reason why a lot of great fighters exist.

[134] Guys like George St. Pierre, I mean, he's pretty open about it.

[135] Like the reason why he became a great fighter because he was tired of people fucking with him.

[136] And he might not have ever become the guy who he became if it wasn't for that pressure.

[137] If it wasn't for those obstacles that were thrown in front of his face, you know.

[138] And that's a very, it's unfortunate that it happens.

[139] but objectively if you step back and look at just life itself it seems to be an inexorable part of our existence on this planet there's a pull and a push and if there's no one pushing there's no pulling and if there's no you know they you know what I'm saying if there's no there's no negative oftentimes the positive doesn't reach the same heights no it doesn't in a lot of But it's, if you can chip away at it, or at least change some perspective on it for a person, this is why someone said to me once when they wanted to be a mind coach that, well, I'm only going to work with athletes.

[140] I'm not going to do therapy.

[141] It's all therapy.

[142] It's all therapy.

[143] Regardless of fighters, it's not always about them being nervous about fighting.

[144] The fight doesn't scare.

[145] It might be something to do with the girlfriend, a loss of a family member, whatever.

[146] You know, it goes back, way back.

[147] It's all part of people.

[148] People's journeys, it's all part of people being who they are.

[149] Therapy has a negative connotation in a lot of people's minds because they connect it to self -indulgence.

[150] Like, are you going to go to therapy every day and just whine and bitch about your life?

[151] And we've all met people that are doing that, you know?

[152] We've all met people that are just locked.

[153] So for them, it's sort of more about having the opportunity to use someone to talk about themselves.

[154] It's an ego trip in a lot of ways.

[155] instead of trying to solve whatever influences that they have control over them.

[156] As a therapist you get to know, as a mind coach, you get to know who will do, carry on doing that behavior.

[157] It's secondary gain.

[158] Some people do the behavior just for a gain just to, you know, get themselves where they want to get to, to get where they want to get.

[159] You kind of deciphered from that.

[160] I don't really, I don't play that game.

[161] I just give them, you know, well, really.

[162] You know, and I just, I'm kind of, you can be kind of tough with it, but, you know, if you want them to change, if they don't want to change, nothing you can do.

[163] Right.

[164] You know, I don't want to, I don't have these dragged out long, you know, therapy sessions of, and then this, and this, and this happened, and that happened.

[165] I try and get right to it, right to the, right to the core of it.

[166] And that's because the way I was trained.

[167] It was trained by a guy called Colin Mackay, who's absolutely like Yoda, you know, my teacher.

[168] And I was trained that way, It has good success.

[169] And how did you get involved with him?

[170] I got involved with Colin.

[171] I started, I went to a seminar many years ago.

[172] My guy called Keith Mayer.

[173] And I was at a bad time of my life, being a bit of an idiot, drinking, snorting, dancing powder, etc. I wasn't being the best I could be.

[174] And I went to a seminar, Keith Mayer, loved it, felt great, didn't know why, just really started reading books, everything.

[175] Dr. Wayne died.

[176] and all sorts of things like that and then I got old of wanted to do a course with a company and the company was good but I found out about Colin and that was it since then he's become a friend and we're like he's just smart super smart well it's interesting because your main pursuit with this or your main focus with this is fighters so you're you're dealing with a very concentrated version of these kind of problem solving because of the fact that the existence is so intense it's so difficult psychologically it's so difficult emotionally and it's very difficult physically as well there's so many discipline there's so there's so many factors involved in in being a successful fighter and you are involved in probably like the most the most concentrated form of dealing with anxiety and problem solving and the ability to see results yeah To be honest, I never thought of it like that.

[177] I didn't, because I've been around it so long.

[178] I never really thought of it like that.

[179] I just do what I do.

[180] Well, if you think about it, like the person, like, say if a guy was a banker or, you know, an insurance salesman or something like that, and they had a bunch of issues that are keeping them back from being successful at their chosen endeavor.

[181] You know, their failure pro or con is only financial, you know.

[182] But it's relative to them, isn't it?

[183] It is relative to them.

[184] Relative to them.

[185] But the intensity of it.

[186] of it.

[187] Yeah.

[188] Like the intensity of a guy going into battle like yourself, about to go and trying to find coughs and reasons why someone's going to step in and rescue you from what is ultimately your entire focus for the last six to eight weeks.

[189] You've been ready for this one moment and the moment's here and you're ready to get the fuck out of there.

[190] Right?

[191] There's nothing like that in the world of being a banker.

[192] I suppose it's not because I've been around it so long.

[193] No, 30 years been around it at Muay Thai.

[194] I sound so many seem so many really good fighters in a gym.

[195] Awesome.

[196] kicking pads sharp clinched everything was sweet sparring was on point and then just to see this different i think of it like this like a really like making a really nice wedding cake and then when you're going to show it to the people they're going to the wedding just fucking squash it that's always felt like to me it just like just destroyed their own creation all the stuff that they're done in the gym maybe a better analogy is you wheel that wedding cake out and it melts instantly under hot lights of the stage yeah which is really what it is because when you're you you have it in a regular room the lights aren't that hot and you when you have someone in the gym mean there's a lot of pressure sparring in the gym of course you know there's a lot of uh there's great fighters you're working out with people who are very dangerous there's a lot of expectations and anxiety but it's nothing compared to an actual fight itself that's when everything's ramped up yeah i mean especially like you said there's people who have been bullied as well and you have to consider who you are you have to consider everything about yourself you know going on that stage going into that lion's den so to speak and you know the gladiatorial sort of archetype of it all but um i it's it's difficult but is there is techniques that work really really well techniques that work really well to get the person out of these negative states of mind these negative patterns to get them to get them because what can happen is you can go away with the train of thought so it magnifies and goes on and on gets bigger and bigger and bigger and the self -talk gets really intense so it trips you up completely and then can overthrow you and make you but you know a minimum of what you can actually achieve you know what I mean and you've recently started working with my friend Ian McCall as well yeah I have who's another great UFC fighter he's very excited about the results very happy about the results all right good I'm glad about that he loves it yeah we were talking about it and he was like I'm 100 % sold I really you know when I first he said when he first started doing it he was like we'll see yeah but then you know once he really experienced it, he was like, okay, I'm going to be doing this from now on.

[197] Yeah, I really like him.

[198] McCall.

[199] He's a real nice guy.

[200] We've not done that much, really.

[201] Did you work with him after his last fight?

[202] Did you work with him after the...

[203] I've only been...

[204] I actually don't know, because, you know, no disrespect.

[205] I haven't followed UFC that much.

[206] How dare you?

[207] I know, I'm sorry.

[208] I'll leave now.

[209] I'll finish my coffee first.

[210] But, polite him English.

[211] But it's like, you know, I think it was after his last loss.

[212] He said he was feeling certain things.

[213] Was that the guy, the little stocky guy, and just win shots him?

[214] Yeah, I did see that.

[215] And since working with him, it's just about finding out who they are.

[216] Everyone's different, and that's why I like to work with people once in a while to do seminars.

[217] I'm over here doing seminars at the moment.

[218] But I like to work with people to find out what makes them tick, to find out what stimulates them and what doesn't, you know?

[219] And what holds them up?

[220] Yeah, definitely.

[221] But Ian McCall's a lovely guy.

[222] I really like him.

[223] I like him as well.

[224] And Joe.

[225] Same thing.

[226] Great, great people.

[227] Same deal, yeah.

[228] Yeah, and you work with Ross Pearson as well?

[229] He's another great guy.

[230] I worked with Ross Pearson.

[231] I did some stand -up.

[232] I used to teach Muay.

[233] I was at a gym called Salford Muay.

[234] And just holding pads and that.

[235] So I kind of fell out of love with it, really, teaching, et cetera, because mine coaching took over it.

[236] But, yeah, I work with Ross as well.

[237] He's another super guy.

[238] So you're not doing Muay Thai training anymore?

[239] No. basically doing all mind coach stuff now and commentary for yuccault and um and fusion yeah and for folks who don't know viny used to do commentary for its showtime which is one of the bigger kickboxing events in the world before it was bought out by glory and uh then um now it's uh glory is struggling a bit in the united states unfortunately i don't know why it's just to me i'm such a huge fan of it i think you know you watch a fight like simon marcus versus um artan levin it's It's a fucking great fight.

[240] I was watching it this morning again in the gym.

[241] It was amazing, amazing fight.

[242] Five rounds, went to a draw.

[243] I mean, it's just a fucking war between two of the very best guys in the world.

[244] So exciting.

[245] High -level stuff.

[246] I've never seen anyone train.

[247] We was at Moytai in America last year with my friend Brian Dobler from Fontana.

[248] I was with what he was training there, Simon was training at his gym.

[249] I've never seen anyone train like him.

[250] He is a machine.

[251] Really?

[252] You know?

[253] Well, he looks like a machine.

[254] Yeah, he does.

[255] Yeah, and his fight with Joe Schilling.

[256] Holy shit.

[257] what a fight that was yeah what a fight yeah and joe wound up knocking him out in the fourth round they went three rounds it was a draw after three rounds and joe knocked him out in the four this fucking crazy yeah but joe schoeling gets up this joe shillings like the guy out of halloween michael meyers you know you knock him down he's getting back up yeah and he's yeah he's special and you were working with him before that fight yeah i was i worked with him before the first glory when he won it when he beat artum levin yeah i i asked him i asked him i met joe I, it's kind of, I don't know, I'll be honest with you, Joe, had a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he was a bit angry and stuff, you know what I mean?

[258] He won't mind me telling you this, because he said I can, so he beat me up.

[259] And he, yeah, he was a bit like that, and I seen him at K -1, because I did K -1 in Los Angeles a while ago.

[260] I was talking to him, and I said, you're miles better than what you come across on the internet.

[261] You're a much better person than what you act.

[262] And I kind of stuck home with him.

[263] He made me a friend on Facebook, and then I contacted him.

[264] and said, you know, do you want me to work with you?

[265] And he went, yeah, sure, cool.

[266] And then we got on.

[267] He's so smart.

[268] He picks things up so quickly.

[269] He's so open to stuff.

[270] We've done some really, really cool stuff that's...

[271] I can experiment on Joe, if that makes sense.

[272] You know, some things that I want to try, and I do them, and he seems to work really well on him.

[273] Like, can you give us an example?

[274] Like, what do you mean, like, things that you want to experiment with?

[275] Right, it's really strange, but it's like...

[276] I had to think about, because I'm English, at Sir Galahad, the knight of Sir Galahad, you know, the knights of the roundtable.

[277] Yes.

[278] You know, King Arthur.

[279] And Joe didn't want to get injured because he was going to fight.

[280] I think he was Robert something or other he was fought on glory, and then he was going to fight on Bellator against Melvin Manhoff.

[281] Okay.

[282] And he wanted to come out unscathed.

[283] So we persuaded his unconscious mind to have armour like Sir Galahad.

[284] so I talked in hypnosis about the archetype of knights of the knights at the round table and he was Sir Galahad not literally obviously but you know so he had armour so he'd come out uninjured you know and it works I'm not saying it's going to work for everything you know like how good you know it's like you know what I mean but it was just it was that getting his mindset into that into that sort of the way of thinking because he was so worried about getting injured right so is that why it was effective because it mitigated the stress that he had of worried about getting injured?

[285] Because that can fuck you, right?

[286] If you go like, God, I don't get hurt, God, I don't get hurt.

[287] That getting hurt is in the back of your mind replaying over and over and over again.

[288] Yeah, indeed.

[289] There was one instance, Liam Harrison was fighting a tie called Anahuaciel Samlitt, and he'd fought him before and got stopped in Jamaica and John Wayne Parr fought against Borchal -Pouramuk.

[290] And Liam had been stopped and I think it was a fourth round with low kicks.

[291] So we did a hypnosis to make him called the hypnosis, and the trigger was warrior.

[292] You know, he kept this work, because Liam's, have you ever seen Liam Harrison fight?

[293] He's an incredible fighter.

[294] And Longwood Jordan Watson and Andy House and all them from bad company in England.

[295] And what we did was, we did this hypnosis.

[296] And when I was commentating on the show, because he was fighting an awat, in round four, and this just freaked me out, really, to be honest.

[297] He looked at me, and he looked straight in the eye.

[298] He went, Warrior.

[299] and then beat shit out of Anewan, went on points.

[300] And yet afterwards I said, do you remember saying Warrior?

[301] And he went, no, didn't remember it.

[302] So it was that stuck in his head.

[303] That was that.

[304] Well, in all fairness, he probably got hit in the head a bunch of times.

[305] Do you remember where you live?

[306] No. I have no fucking idea.

[307] Did I win?

[308] Yeah, who am I?

[309] I mean, how many times is a fighter won a fight and then asked what happened?

[310] Yeah.

[311] That does happen.

[312] Because I feel that it's a state as well.

[313] It's both, right?

[314] We saw him about that flow state, the hypnotic state.

[315] It's satirai, isn't it, in the Japanese martial arts?

[316] I think it's a state.

[317] Did Mohammed Ali talk about it when Muhammad Ali fought Cleveland Williams?

[318] He was in that kind of state.

[319] That's my favorite Ali fight.

[320] I'm so glad you brought that up.

[321] He was just, wasn't he breathtaking?

[322] I've played that fight on this podcast at least three times.

[323] He was in a state.

[324] He was in this flow.

[325] And that's before he went away for three years.

[326] before they took away his ability to fight because he wouldn't fight in the Vietnam War and then he came back and he was never the same again.

[327] That Cleveland Williams fight to me is like quintessential.

[328] Breathaking, people should watch that.

[329] That just showed his full potential.

[330] But yeah, he was in that sort of flow state.

[331] Pernow Whitaker the same.

[332] You know, he's, the way he's...

[333] I mean, there's one fight where he fought, Harold Brazier.

[334] When he moved up to Lightwell away, do you remember?

[335] And he slipped, I'm trying to do it.

[336] I can't do it, by the way.

[337] But he slipped, slit.

[338] And he just steps around him and patted him on the ass.

[339] And I'm like, come on now.

[340] That's ridiculous.

[341] Yeah, well, Whitaker is one of those guys that people kind of forget about, you know, like, everyone wants to talk about Julio Cesar Chavez and some great fighters from that era.

[342] He beat Chavez.

[343] He beat Chavez that fight.

[344] I think he won, I think he won as well.

[345] Of course he did.

[346] But he was one of those guys that, for whatever reason, people have kind of forgotten about him.

[347] Meldrick Taylor, a lot of people forgotten about Meldrick Taylor.

[348] Meldrick Taylor, I shouldn't say this.

[349] When Meldrick Taylor lost to Crissano Espana in, I think he fought in Ireland or somewhere, oh no, it was on.

[350] The Razor Ruddick and Lenitz -Lewis Bill.

[351] I cried.

[352] I loved Meldrick Taylor.

[353] He was like my everything.

[354] He shouldn't say that, should I?

[355] Whoa.

[356] That's like a song.

[357] It's come out of the closet, no. No, but he was just, I loved watching him.

[358] His fight with Chavez was just an outside classic.

[359] Yeah, well, Chavez changed him.

[360] He was never the same after that fight.

[361] No. After he got stopped in the 12th, you know, with like seconds to go.

[362] Two parts of his own blood or something, wasn't it?

[363] He was swallowing his own blood from the mouth.

[364] cuts but it was just it was heartbreaking because after that he was just literally never the same and i remember terry norris destroyed and then he was falling on his feet and and then terry mean you see terry now he's fucked out too is he got parkets they're both fucked is his trainer training um he's training glovkin isn't he who his trainer yeah abel sanchise he's now training galovkin yes he is he's training him up in big who i love love galovkin if you watch galovkin explain how we fights He always talks about how he feels.

[365] Talks about an emotion.

[366] He talks about how he feels and everything you see him.

[367] Even when he's hit in the back, you see him feeling the shot.

[368] You know?

[369] He's going, he can see him every single part of him considering everything that he does.

[370] And apparently he even beats people up.

[371] I think Kovalev had left that gym because of Gennardi Golovkin.

[372] Rumor has it.

[373] Really?

[374] And he drops him a body shot.

[375] Yeah, he's a monster.

[376] Kovalev who fights 15 pounds heavier too.

[377] That's the room.

[378] I'm not saying it.

[379] I love rumors.

[380] Spread it up.

[381] Spread it up.

[382] Spread it up.

[383] I don't live in England anymore in Liverpool.

[384] I've moved.

[385] You know what I mean?

[386] Or Kovalev knocking on me doors.

[387] It was Joe Rogan's fault.

[388] He made me say it.

[389] Kovalev is a monster too.

[390] He's incredible.

[391] And look what he did to Bernard Hopkins.

[392] Yeah, that was pretty shocking.

[393] Pretty shocking.

[394] You know, you see Bernard Hopkins in fully defensive survival mode.

[395] Yeah.

[396] Especially in round 12.

[397] I thought it looked like he let him off a bit in round 12.

[398] I thought.

[399] Did you think so?

[400] I didn't think so.

[401] I thought, I don't know.

[402] I thought he was chasing him down.

[403] I don't know.

[404] He's very brutal.

[405] He's on my friend's Facebook.

[406] Oh, yeah.

[407] Very exciting.

[408] Yeah, it's dropping names.

[409] But he, before he was famous.

[410] And, but he seems to like violent stuff, you know.

[411] He's a scary guy.

[412] He's a very, very scary guy.

[413] Well, he killed a guy in the ring.

[414] One guy died in one of his fights.

[415] It didn't seem to affect him at all.

[416] You know, a lot of times, like, with Ray Mancini or Emil Griffith, there's a lot of fighters.

[417] They'll kill somebody.

[418] Yeah, Barry McGuigan did as well, didn't he?

[419] Did he?

[420] Yeah, Barry McGuigan killed somebody as well.

[421] I didn't remember that.

[422] Yeah.

[423] But something happens to them after that where they're never quite the same.

[424] Yeah, Nigel Ben.

[425] Yes.

[426] Nigel Ben was the same.

[427] Well, I met Nigel Ben.

[428] It's interesting, again.

[429] Did you John McClellan fight?

[430] Yeah, if you listen to that at the end of it, they said, Nigel Ben says the first person I'd like to thank is Paul McKenna for hypnotizing me and making me believe in myself.

[431] And I met Nigel Ben about two months ago.

[432] And I love...

[433] He said that after McClellan fight?

[434] Yes, you watch it.

[435] Wow.

[436] The first thing.

[437] you said, I'd like to thank Paul McKenna for hypnotizing me and they can believe himself, because he apparently had a separation of his wife and his girlfriend, that fucks people up, you know, emotion.

[438] So there's a grief attached to it, isn't there, you know?

[439] And, yeah, Nigel...

[440] And I mentioned that to Nigel bank ,'s a massive fan, and I mentioned that, I said, I got into mind coaching because, partly he's because of how, you know, what he...

[441] I mean, he got out of the ring, he got knocked out of the ring, did he?

[442] First round, and McClellan was just a monster now.

[443] McClellan was in his prime in a destroyer back then.

[444] And they were Everyone was talking about McClellan eventually fighting Roy Jones Jr. That was the big super fight that was on the horizon.

[445] Sort of like, you know, people are anticipating all the different fights right now for Golofkin.

[446] They're anticipating possibly Koto, if not Koto, maybe one day.

[447] Canelo.

[448] Canela Avres.

[449] Yeah, that's a possibility.

[450] That's how they were looking at him until the Nigel Ben fight.

[451] And it looked like he was just going to kill Nigel Ben, just beating the fuck out of him.

[452] But two things.

[453] One, the weight cut issue.

[454] That was a big issue because General McLevelin was huge and he was cutting a lot of weight to get down on that weight class.

[455] And that was back when, you know, people weren't doing it well.

[456] They weren't rehydrating with IVs.

[457] And particularly in boxing, the weight -cutting mentality in wrestling is a totally different mentality because you could wrestle dehydrated.

[458] And although your performance will probably suffer, you are not as concerned about head trauma.

[459] And the head trauma that these guys get when they're dehydrated, it's very, very dangerous.

[460] Because the bleeding on the brain is just way more devastating.

[461] Apparently, all the deaths that have ever occurred, or almost all the deaths that ever occurred in boxing, have occurred outside of the heavyweight division.

[462] And the reason being that those are the guys that are cutting the weight and the heavyweights aren't.

[463] But there's just one guy that got really fucked up on HBO.

[464] Like, I want to say a year or two ago, he fought that Cuban kid.

[465] Was it Eric Perez that he fought?

[466] Is that the guy's name he fought?

[467] I don't remember.

[468] I'm not doing a good job of remember it, but it was a rare instance of a heavyweight being like really badly concussed in a fight and having bleeding on the brain and having to get an operation.

[469] He was a Russian guy.

[470] Anyway, point being that McClellan fight was pretty crazy.

[471] When they did a documentary on General McClellan, because I was a fan of General McClellan who knocked out Julian Jackson.

[472] Not Julian Jackson, I think it was like, seven rounds and maybe knocked him out in like one or whatever but he said on the second fight in the interview afterwards when I fought you the first time I had a headache for three weeks I had a headache for three weeks after fighting you that isn't a good sign yeah you know that isn't a good sign and all of the all of the the documentaries have missed that out because I watched it and I thought I remember because I just you know something sticks in your head and I just thought he's not mentioned that they never mentioned how he was and probably they sparred really hard and all that point was from crime Yeah, they don't play.

[473] No, Croft Jim.

[474] Not only do they not play, they used to crank the temperature up.

[475] Yeah, that's true.

[476] Manuel Stewart would crank it up like 100 degrees in that place.

[477] It was like a sauna.

[478] Yeah, they couldn't have no rap music, and he's swearing as well.

[479] And he believed in, like, when Lennox Lewis for Oliver McCall, he made Oliver McCall wear white boxing boots because he thought that he made him move quicker.

[480] Hmm.

[481] Strange.

[482] But if it adds to stuff.

[483] Yeah.

[484] Yeah.

[485] Emmanuel Stewart is an interesting guy because he's so nice.

[486] He's so personable.

[487] It was nice.

[488] It was dead now.

[489] Sadly.

[490] Yeah.

[491] But he was such a nice guy.

[492] And when a trainer is such a nice guy like that, oftentimes, like, it seems like the fighters want to fight harder for them.

[493] Yeah.

[494] Like they want to win more.

[495] Like they have this more of like, there's nothing worse than a fighter that has a contentious relationship with their trainer.

[496] Yeah.

[497] And then there's like, there's some sort of animosity between the two of them.

[498] They leave.

[499] They come back.

[500] And you see a lot of that, and it really trips a lot of fighters up, those contentious relationships they have with their trainers.

[501] I think a lot of the times, though, with fighters, sometimes it may take the position of a father figure, you know, or an elder brother, or, you know, especially a father figure because a lot of, like, have come from, you know, not the best start in life, you know what I mean.

[502] A lot of them come from a place with no father.

[503] Yeah, indeed.

[504] Yeah, indeed.

[505] You know, so, you know, I always, out my trainers, I looked up to them, and wanted to please them as well.

[506] Right.

[507] I just think it's part and parcel of it, really.

[508] It is.

[509] And I think that's why a guy like Emmanuel Stewart was so successful, not just because of his deep knowledge of boxing and his understanding of technique, which all were certainly there, but also just because he was such a great guy.

[510] Yeah.

[511] It was when he thought Thomas, when Thomas Ferns thought Sugar Ray Leonard, I remember reading that Emmanuel Stewart and Tommy Hearns locked themselves away for two weeks and just cried.

[512] Wow.

[513] That's passion.

[514] Jesus Christ.

[515] That's passion.

[516] Get out of the house.

[517] Yeah, I know, yeah, I know, ring me. Rewind time and ring me. And I was only 11 there.

[518] Were there any, back then, were there any, did anybody use a mental coach back then?

[519] Do you know of anything?

[520] Is that, when did it start in combat sports?

[521] I don't know.

[522] I'm the only one in the world and that's not true.

[523] No, I don't know.

[524] I just, actually, I've never heard of anyone that does it.

[525] I know these scenes have seen sports psychologists.

[526] and stuff.

[527] I know that Steve Collins before he thought Chris Eubach sorry you're going about boxing I love boxing keep going when Steve Collins for Chris Eubank he came in with earphones in and knelt in the ring and it played with Eubank's head because Nigel Ben had used a hypotherapist Paul McKenna to go through all that to beat Gerald McClellan and then Eubank because he injured Michael Watson so badly that he had this in his head that if Steve Collins is like this he won't know when he's hurt because he'll get in such a state he won't know when he's beat You know what I mean?

[528] So he was worried that Collins was going to take too much punishment.

[529] Yeah, or whatever the game was, but it worked for Collins because Collins beat Chris Eubank twice.

[530] We might have beat him anyway.

[531] Might have beat him anyway, but it's two shenanigans, isn't it?

[532] It's mind games.

[533] Yeah, it's like the fragile psyche of a person that's about to go into unarmed combat like that.

[534] It's really interesting because most people would think of them as fearless, just the toughest motherfucker.

[535] fuckers on the planet about to step in between those ropes and duke it out but meanwhile there's a they're balancing back and forth and there's there's doubt and fear and all these different things that are playing on their mind um you've seen the mike tyson movie right yes the documentary yes that one thing that he did that speech where he described what it was like to walk into the ring and what he felt like and now he had all these doubts until he got into the ring and then when he got to the ring he was a god yeah you know they hit me he used to hit my therapy didn't he did he custom art always to hit my therapy i heard it on your show because i didn't know and i heard it one of your guys said i don't know he was speaking to you i apologize i know i wish i could remember i could remember i remember wearing my feet while sometimes but um yeah he was talking he said customato you'd use it use it well custom model was certainly one of the first and most um prominent to uh talk about psychology to a fighter and it was a main point of focus in interviews about Tyson where he would talk about the things that DeMano told him and DeMano in the you know the footage that they have of him you know there's many many different speeches that he gave to Tyson that were on on recordings and you know the one about fire being you know Fear being your friend yeah it fears like fire I tell you else does I tell you I really like I like Freddie Roach of course Freddy's great we're going to see him soon I really like some I really like I got my pictures up with him, it was over the moon, like a little kid.

[536] On the scene, he was like, oh, it's very nice.

[537] He's a very nice, very, very accommodating.

[538] What Virgil Hunter, if it's what Virgil Hunter says, he's got metaphors, which is learning stories.

[539] He says a lot of cool things that are like about life and about, I think if you've got experience of life and you can convey it in such a way that it helps, that's more power to you, I think.

[540] Yeah, I mean, and Anne Wolf, too, you know, from the female side, the way she trained Kirkland.

[541] Yeah.

[542] You know, like, there's probably very few trainers as ferocious in the world as that woman.

[543] Yeah.

[544] Some of the training that she used to have that guy do?

[545] Is she the one that knocked that, the big tall girl, went boom, chamber.

[546] Yeah, yeah, right shot that, won't it?

[547] Ridiculous.

[548] One -punch knockout.

[549] She could fucking bang.

[550] Yeah, she could.

[551] Woo!

[552] That was a chick that Christy Martin avoided like she was on fire.

[553] Right.

[554] Ah, get away from me. She didn't want to have nothing to do with Anne Wool.

[555] Wolf and there's a great video of Anne Wolf driving a truck and she's got a harness on the front of it with a heavy bag hanging from it and Kirkland's backing up doing his heavy bag work backing up it's fucking fantastic when he fought Canello didn't have her in a corner but like that shot Canello hitting with that raw well he didn't didn't train with her and he didn't have her in his corner and you know she was actually still managing him too it's just the whole thing was a mess that's unfortunate but you know what canella might have done that to him anyway Yeah, I mean...

[556] I'm sorry, he's dangerous, isn't he?

[557] There is all that, but it's like...

[558] You know, I think it's...

[559] Prince Nazim Hamid was amazing.

[560] Back in his day, when he left Brendan Ingle, they had a really close relationship from seven and, you know, old Irish guy and he has got loads of stories and, you know, metaphors and blah, blah, blah.

[561] And when he left Winkerbank, which is in Sheffield, not far from me, really, he wasn't the same.

[562] Right.

[563] He wasn't the same.

[564] It's like Tyson and Kevin Rooney.

[565] Right.

[566] They just seem to have a gel.

[567] he seemed to know and have a system that works.

[568] Well, look at Tyson was incredible, I thought, with Kevin Rooney.

[569] Well, Kevin Rooney was still a part of the Custamato legacy.

[570] You know, he had trained under DeMato as well, and they kind of carried over.

[571] But he didn't have the same relationship with Kevin Rooney that he had with Custamano, where it was he wanted Custamano's happiness.

[572] Yeah.

[573] He wanted Custamano's love.

[574] He wanted Custamano to really appreciate.

[575] Father figure again, exactly.

[576] I mean, D 'Amato really literally was.

[577] took him in.

[578] But again, it comes back to what you do and what your focus is, where it is really about mental states.

[579] That mental state of wanting to please the father, wanting to please this mentor, wanting to, this person that you love and care so much about their opinion and their idea of you, that it becomes a significant motivating factor.

[580] Yeah, it is.

[581] And that, tapping into these factors, tapping into whatever it is that allows you to achieve, that amazing state of success.

[582] That's why I like to get my clients.

[583] I like to get to know my clients in every way.

[584] Because you get the best from them then.

[585] There's a saying that's less than 100 % support is sabotage.

[586] So if you're not getting 100 % with them and they're not giving you 100 % back, you're never going to get what you can really achieve.

[587] But it's like I like to really get to know them, to understand them.

[588] Once you're a client, you're always going to be a client forever.

[589] You know, I've got a support system where, again, And I was the same alert not of calling is like, you know, they get back to you're on a regular basis.

[590] And I never keep out of touch with them because you always want them to, you know, if they need me, you know, because I'm not needy.

[591] I don't need to be needed.

[592] But I like, I like staying in contact with him.

[593] Right.

[594] I like success.

[595] I love it.

[596] Well, you also develop, it's a project.

[597] I mean, you develop a relationship with this person and that person becomes a project.

[598] Yeah.

[599] And so you seem to get a great thrill out of other people becoming successful.

[600] which is a great quality.

[601] And that's the exact quality that you need in order to be a mentor.

[602] Yeah.

[603] You know, in order to be a coach, in order to be, the best coaches are clearly the coach that gets personal enjoyment, has a real deep investment in the student getting better.

[604] Yeah.

[605] It's like, I have a lot of, I get a lot of praise off coaches.

[606] Mark, I think he's name's Mark Camorra, who's Joe's coach.

[607] I was talking to Joe on FaceTime, and then Mark says, you've done a really good job.

[608] I really like that.

[609] I don't know.

[610] My sound will come across a bit, I don't know, gushy, but I just love it.

[611] I really love it.

[612] I just love the way.

[613] I love fighters.

[614] I like people achieving.

[615] I like people getting out of darkness.

[616] I know where it's light to be there.

[617] You know what I mean?

[618] And it's nothing more of a relief than not being there.

[619] You know what I'm saying?

[620] Just point in the right direction, see people just glow.

[621] And they think, you know, and they get that eureka.

[622] a moment, a light bulb moment, where they've done something wicked or they've done something they didn't think they could do.

[623] That for me is priceless.

[624] I didn't get paid for it, of course.

[625] It's a job, but it's priceless to me. Priceless.

[626] Well, that's probably why you're drawn to it.

[627] That's why you're good at it.

[628] And that's what you kind of have to be that, right, in order to be good at that job.

[629] Yeah.

[630] Like, the worst thing you could ever be as a mentor is to be jealous of the success of your student.

[631] Yeah.

[632] Or to hope that your student doesn't do as well.

[633] But we've all seen that.

[634] We've all seen that from coaches.

[635] Oh, gosh, yeah.

[636] I mean, everyone's seen sabotage from coaches.

[637] That's dark shit.

[638] Yeah.

[639] Yeah, it is.

[640] There is an element of, there is an element of jealousy, envy, or whatever, sabotaging in people.

[641] And oftentimes it's like former competitors.

[642] Yeah.

[643] You know, I think, I don't know you agree with this, but I think when a coach as being a fighter, there's a transition from them being still a fighter to a coach, you know.

[644] I've got a friend.

[645] or Frankie Hudders.

[646] It's got a really good gym in Wivingshore in Manchester.

[647] And I see that with him.

[648] Now, he was a fighter, a very good one.

[649] And I can see the transition now of how he is being a coach.

[650] He's like, got all these kids that look up to him and, you know, like Jordan Watson's coach, Richard Smith.

[651] He is the same.

[652] And he got this sort of, you can see the transition because they were fighters and then they become mentors and coaches.

[653] That I like watching that.

[654] That's interesting.

[655] It's an interesting metamorphosis.

[656] Yeah, it is.

[657] And it is an important metamorphosis, too, because if you always identify with being a fighter, you're never going to be a great coach.

[658] You have to accept this new stage of your life and embrace it the same way you embrace being a fighter to do it with 100 % of your ability and your focus.

[659] It's hard for some people because then it becomes not about them.

[660] It becomes about them helping other people.

[661] And some personalities are not really suited for that.

[662] Well, fighters are about them.

[663] I mean, you know, certain, not all of them.

[664] them, but certain amounts of it has to be about them, because they're the ones that's taking the risk.

[665] They're the ones that are going to get in the beats, aren't they?

[666] Right.

[667] That go in the ring and take the shots and take the pain.

[668] You know what I mean?

[669] So it's difficult for a person to transition, but that's with the change of values.

[670] As you get older, your values change and you start to shift from value to value.

[671] Do you have long -term goals as far as what you're trying to do with mental coaching?

[672] yeah i mean i would like to to get into coaching people to be mine coaches but i want i want elite people i don't want bullshit i don't want that i want people as passionate as me so you know we're going to be doing that in 2016 my collins got a um a thing now so if anyone wants to know about they can get me on my website viny shorman dot com or um facebook or whatever the hypnosis page and we can tell them about it's got a new sort of series of videos where you can go step by step to learn to be a mind coach.

[673] My long -term goal is just to keep improving, keep getting better myself because I love it reading all the time, but I'm quite boring really going on about it to people.

[674] My long -term goal is, well, look how well Mike Dolesay is done with his diet, you know, and I'd like to be that.

[675] I'd like to get that to be the man to go to.

[676] the go -to guy and have other people that are the same passion you know regardless of if it's fighting or not just people that just want to achieve or at least get something a little bit further if not really far how many people do you work with that are not fighters um quite a lot yeah yeah quite a lot what's a common thing that they come to you with they want to improve confidence everything is confidence 99 .9 % of stuff is confidence and just yeah confidence and people, people come to me, it's always the same thing.

[677] They come in, because I work from home, or I work on Skype or FaceTime, and they always talk about what they don't want.

[678] That's the first thing out of everyone's mouth to talk about what they don't want.

[679] And when you ask them what they do want, they still talk about what they don't want.

[680] So you have to change the direction of the thought pattern because they're just so focused on, say, it's that rock, and they're rock, the rock, the rock, and you have to just move them to where they want to go, and then say, now what do you want?

[681] Instead of focus on that, now where do you want to go?

[682] Now what you're doing?

[683] you know that okay and we deal with that in various ways time like therapy hypnosis whatever and then we move them towards where they want to go to so when you're dealing with someone and their issue is confidence yeah what are the what are the factors what are like the things that are holding people back are there common factors that you find over and over again with people that keep them from being confident no this is this is the Sherlock syndrome i call it This is where you have to be like Sherlock.

[684] You have to like think, Ah.

[685] Sherlock Holmes.

[686] Sherlock Holmes in English.

[687] And he has to think about it and find out what really is going on in there.

[688] That's why it's so cool.

[689] That's why it's so exciting because everyone's different.

[690] And they have this sort of, you know, this thing that keeps them back or whatever.

[691] It's strange.

[692] Everyone's different.

[693] It's whether it be a past relationship, whether it be, like you said, bullying, whether it be parents, whatever.

[694] Or a current relationship.

[695] Or a current relationship.

[696] Yeah.

[697] that's toxic and they shouldn't be in it.

[698] I don't tell them not to be because ecologically it's not right.

[699] Ecologically?

[700] Psychologically?

[701] Yeah, psychologically.

[702] It's not right.

[703] I'm like, it's not good for the environment.

[704] Yeah, it's not good for the environment.

[705] It's bad for the ocean.

[706] Toxic, violent language, screaming and fighting with your misses.

[707] But, no, I just think that...

[708] They have to figure that out for themselves.

[709] They have to figure that out for themselves.

[710] And you kind of know, anyway, we've met people that you think, you shouldn't be with her?

[711] She's fucking bananas or he's bananas or whatever.

[712] Yeah, when I was young, young, I used to try to help those people.

[713] I used to try to, like, tell them, hey, man, you shouldn't be in that relationship.

[714] You don't get no thanks for you.

[715] You got to figure that shit out for yourself.

[716] Yeah, you don't get no thanks for that.

[717] No, everyone's going to be mad at you.

[718] Her, him, everybody.

[719] Yeah.

[720] So it's about the environment, environment around them.

[721] It is ecological, sort of, in some ways.

[722] Yeah, and it's also many times whatever's holding them back is also what led them to be in that relationship that toxic relationship in the first place yeah unfortunately yeah yeah i've met people that their relationships is really essentially like a carryover of their mother and that's always so odd it's like they i have friends who can't do anything unless they check in with their wife they have to ask their wife for every purchase they have to ask their wife for any decision anything they want to do they can't say hey uh i want to go to the game with mike you know you can't say that you have to go and ask permission and see if it's okay and would it be all right if i mean these are people that aren't even married but you are you but because you travel and i travel because i you know commentate and fusion and yocco and stuff you if you had a girlfriend my my soon's going to be my wife getting married in august if you had that sort of where you're going who you're with blah blah blah you're not going to you're never going to you it can't work i've had those before so have i they're brutal it's horrible yeah it's horrible on both sides yeah yeah yeah You know, it's brutal for the man, it's brutal for the woman.

[723] It's brutal for the woman that's asking the man where you're going.

[724] What are you doing?

[725] It's a terrible mind state for her to be in, too.

[726] It's more about them than it is about what's, you know, it's more about them, what they're going through.

[727] Their insecurities there.

[728] I've done that myself.

[729] I have done that myself.

[730] You feel that it's not grown up.

[731] Well, this is very difficult, too, to grow inside of a relationship.

[732] Because it seems like you have to have your own shit together before you can attract someone with their shit together.

[733] So if you don't have your shit together, you usually wind up with someone who also doesn't have their shit together.

[734] And it's very difficult for the two of you together to work it out.

[735] Yeah, like a track's like.

[736] Yes.

[737] So oftentimes people like they really do have to break up in order to get on with their own life.

[738] The trouble is to carry it to the next one.

[739] They say, oh, that was shit.

[740] That didn't work.

[741] Let's bring it to the next one.

[742] And then it becomes a cyclic behavior.

[743] Right.

[744] You know, and then it's difficult.

[745] Well, that's the weirdest one when you get involved with someone.

[746] then somewhere early in the relationship they are screaming at you.

[747] And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck is going on here?

[748] Like, what is this?

[749] Is this what you do?

[750] It's boundaries, isn't it?

[751] It's where your boundaries are.

[752] Sure.

[753] You know, if you've not, you know, you let someone overstep the boundary and all of the and they go further back and then you end up not being you.

[754] It is, and it's also patterns that people fall into because life is very confusing and because life is very stressful and there's a lot going on.

[755] So they fall into these patterns of making these same.

[756] mistakes over and over again from one relationship to the next because there's comfort in those patterns and you know you recognize it early on because there aren't any real issues like we've only known each other for a short amount of time you're already fucking screaming at me for nothing like why are you screaming at me you're screaming to me because of some other shit you've got that's trapped it's not been dealt with it it's an unconscious behavior it's an unconscious reaction to a situation that's not been resolved and they think it's normal it's normal to scream Yeah.

[757] Because maybe they grew up with people screaming on each other or hitting each other or whatever.

[758] It's like this.

[759] Yeah, and then you tolerate it and then increasingly it gets worse.

[760] Yeah.

[761] And it's interesting how those sort of relationships can become, you can drown in them.

[762] Yeah.

[763] You know, both parties can drown because you just can't get out of them and you're constantly involved in conflict or the worst is conflict and resolution.

[764] Conflict and resolution.

[765] Conflict and resolution.

[766] And they get trapped in this high of making up, of fighting and then making up, fighting and making up.

[767] I mean, while your life's going.

[768] Yeah.

[769] You're losing days.

[770] Oh, yeah, you're fucked.

[771] Time is something you're just not going to get back ever.

[772] You know, regardless how rich you are.

[773] I went to a seminar by a lady called Dolores Askoff Noiski, who's part of the thing called the Servants of Light, which is an esoterical belief school.

[774] Servants of Light.

[775] Yeah.

[776] I hated already.

[777] No, I know.

[778] It's an esoterical thing.

[779] It's nothing to do with me. I didn't name it that.

[780] Don't blame me. But some of the things that she said that, you know, some of the things in the seminar she said are very relevant, you know.

[781] She was talking about, tell us a story about time saying that when she was in, she lived in Jersey, which is just at the top of England.

[782] And they went in 1940 -something or the Germans were coming to invade, and she had to evacuate.

[783] So, my dad said, well, look, you know, you're not going to.

[784] I'm not going to be out of buy anything for your birthday.

[785] We're going to have to use all the money to be evacuate because he's going to go and live in Hezwall, which is near me in Liverpool.

[786] And he said, well, what I'll do is I'll give you a book with paper and I'll give you a time.

[787] So every time you write a check, you want to be with me in that time.

[788] And he honoured that time all the time.

[789] So it made me think about how important time is.

[790] We just don't get a lot of it.

[791] You know, I'm 45 now.

[792] I was 21 yesterday.

[793] You know, in my eyes, you know, my mum died in, when was it, February, now August, last year, boom, you know, your mum's there, of a sudden they're gone.

[794] It's very important what you do with your time.

[795] I think anyway.

[796] It's everything.

[797] Yeah, 100%.

[798] It's also very difficult to stop and take account of what's going on in your life and try to figure out whether or not it's serving you to the best of its ability.

[799] If time is serving you, or if you are serving your own life, if your focus and what you're doing, your actions, are serving your own existence to the best of your ability or whether or not you're trapped in momentum because that's often the case of people being trapped in momentum could rob you of your life and you won't even realize until it's too late and you're that 60 year old guy on the hill looking down at the guy's bullying and you're looking out the window with your blanket and you're going bastard can I go again no you can't there's no second throw of the dices that you know no yeah it's just the way it is but it's also really hard to figure out if you're trapped in an environment where the people around you haven't figured it out and they're stuck in some patterns maybe alcoholism and cigarettes and all the bullshit that's involved with whatever they've got going on their life, crime or drama or whatever the fuck it is.

[800] It's environment as well isn't it?

[801] It's the environment that you're in.

[802] Sure, in the patterns that you develop.

[803] That's really hard for people to break out of the patterns that they grew up in.

[804] Yeah, it is.

[805] It is, but it's part and parcel of the job that I do.

[806] You can't say any more part in parcels.

[807] Did I say that low?

[808] times five you know how I did a podcast the other week and I kept saying um all the time um yeah that like is one that drives me crazy like yeah yeah if I catch myself like like like if you like I don't know like there's maybe like a way to like oh shut the fuck up you know if I catch my if I couched myself over liking or overing you knowing you know there's like you know it's like the worst is uh you know I'm saying like that's a rapper thing.

[809] Yeah.

[810] Well, we don't get any rappers in England.

[811] You don't get rappers?

[812] You have rappers.

[813] We don't have proper rappers, though, do we?

[814] Scroby's Pip.

[815] Like real ones.

[816] Do we?

[817] How dare you?

[818] It proves how in touch I am with hip -hop.

[819] You should get in touch.

[820] I remember Dougie Fresh.

[821] Oh, my goodness.

[822] Dougie fresh and I remember Dougie fresh, and that's it.

[823] What about Biggie?

[824] I remember Roxanne.

[825] What about Bingy?

[826] Oh, Biggie was good.

[827] Come on, son.

[828] Good?

[829] Good?

[830] Well, you know.

[831] The greatest?

[832] All right, the greatest then.

[833] Without a doubt.

[834] The best effort.

[835] The best.

[836] that ever did it.

[837] He was indeed, wasn't he?

[838] He's the motherfucker right there.

[839] What did he sing?

[840] Put one of his records on for me. How dare you?

[841] Biggie, biggie, biggie, can't you see?

[842] Sometimes he was to hypnotize me. I just listen to classical music.

[843] Biggie.

[844] Don't, don't do.

[845] Kick in the door, waving the 4 -4.

[846] All you heard was Papa don't hit me no more.

[847] You have missed your way.

[848] You think I should have been a rapper?

[849] I think you should.

[850] I think you're a shitty mind coach if you really believe that.

[851] Maybe.

[852] Maybe we should swap.

[853] Have you ever told someone that they should be doing something different?

[854] Have you ever told someone, hey man, you need to fucking quit your job and become a rock and roll star or anything?

[855] No. No?

[856] No. I've told people they shouldn't fight.

[857] Really?

[858] Yeah.

[859] Because they're not good at it or because they take too much damage?

[860] Because the coaches of shit.

[861] Oh, okay.

[862] We know that.

[863] You've seen fucking, why, oh, I've thought about only had one fight.

[864] And I'm fighting B class.

[865] In B class in England, you can knee to the head.

[866] I'm fighting B class I'm like It's not the best idea In the world You say it nicely So you You told them They shouldn't fight Because their coaches were shit No not coaches Yeah It's a risk You know It's an early Early risk And you know Well why would you tell them That instead of telling them To get a better coach Yeah you do You do Invertently He just pushed them In the right direction So then some people just I don't know Some people shouldn't fight and never really put it together.

[867] Well, you did what I do for the UFC for its showtime, for many other kickboxing fights, and when you do that, you do see people that kind of don't have a chance.

[868] You see a bunch of issues.

[869] Yeah.

[870] You know, like, whatever it is.

[871] They're just, they're so far off where they need to be.

[872] Yeah.

[873] You're like, God.

[874] It's car crash, isn't it?

[875] It's car crash TV sometimes.

[876] Yeah.

[877] It is.

[878] It's car crash TV.

[879] but like it's just part and parcel of what they do.

[880] You did it again?

[881] I just did it again.

[882] Son of a bitch.

[883] I am sorry.

[884] But like mismatches trouble me more than almost anything.

[885] And it's one of the things that I really like about MMA as opposed to boxing is boxing guys would get tune -up fights.

[886] Well, what's that catch -weight thing about?

[887] I don't get the catch -weight thing.

[888] Catch -wage for M -M -A, it's usually because someone got a last -minute fight or short -notice fight and they don't want to cut all the weight.

[889] Like, say if a guy fights at 155, like a glacing t -bow, he fights at 155, but he really walks around about 185, and he cuts a lot of fucking weight.

[890] And so he has a process to cut that weight.

[891] And he has to, it's pretty scientific.

[892] They've got to kind of stay with that process.

[893] And if they don't, like Benson Henderson, when he fought Brendan Thatch, Princeton Henderson, former UFC lightweight champion, took a fight at 170 because it was a short -noticed fight, stepped in and fought at 170.

[894] And the reason why he fought at 170 is because, like, this way he wouldn't have to.

[895] cut the weight and he really wouldn't be able to take a short notice fight at 155.

[896] It's just too hard to lose the weight.

[897] Like they have to do it over a long period of time.

[898] Otherwise, they're significantly weakened.

[899] You know, they get down to a certain, you know, 10, 15 pounds away and then they dehydrate themselves down.

[900] I didn't get why, you know, when Cotto fought Daniel Giel a couple of weeks ago.

[901] Yes.

[902] Why they made Daniel Giel weigh lighter yet Cotto's got the middleweight title of 160.

[903] I didn't get that.

[904] I don't know what they agreed.

[905] to.

[906] Yeah, they agreed to.

[907] It was 154, right?

[908] Yeah, something like that.

[909] And I just thought, eh?

[910] I didn't get it.

[911] Well, maybe strategy.

[912] Yeah, I understand it's strategy and sometimes it's a business.

[913] But when was the days where it, that's what you weigh?

[914] That's what he weighs.

[915] He's the champion at that.

[916] What did Giel weigh?

[917] Does he walk around a lighter weight?

[918] Is he a lighter guy?

[919] No, he is a middleweight.

[920] Right.

[921] I don't know if he's a big middleweight.

[922] Well, maybe Koto's thinking about fighting Floyd.

[923] And so he's working on his fighting lighter and being lighter guys.

[924] Yeah, but still, he's That's the big payday, right?

[925] Indeed, but it's like 160.

[926] Yeah.

[927] I mean, he is the champ at 160.

[928] Yeah.

[929] And also there's the Golovkin fight, which is 160, that he might be next in line for Golofkin.

[930] Have they decided, is it going to be Cotto versus Canelo?

[931] I think the big fight, the big fight, because I don't think that Cotto and Mayweather will sell?

[932] I don't think so, I don't know.

[933] But I think Canello and Cotto is a big fight.

[934] It's Puerto Rican versus Mexican.

[935] It's always bigger.

[936] isn't it?

[937] They don't like each other for some strange reason They don't So that I'd be good They speak the same language I don't get it Yeah they do I don't know Who'd you think it'd win Canello, Cotto?

[938] It's hard to tell Coto certainly has taken more beatings Yeah You know I think Canello's just Got more weapons Yeah well he hits a lot harder He's a scary fuck Here he is You know The Margarito I think took a lot out of Coto That was a fucked up fight when you find out his history of loading up his wraps.

[939] Yeah, Zampiuteu fight was hard.

[940] Yes.

[941] You know, the Moseley fight wasn't easy.

[942] No, it wasn't.

[943] He's had some real hard fights.

[944] But the Margarito fight was fucked.

[945] Yeah.

[946] When you find out that he most likely loaded up his gloves with plaster.

[947] What does this say?

[948] Cotto Canello, winner to fight glove.

[949] It's supposed to be in November right now.

[950] They haven't officially booked it.

[951] Ooh, I'll see that.

[952] Fuck, yeah.

[953] Cotto canello will be a great fight, rather, fight rather and the winner fighting galovkin would be giant but nobody wants to fight galovkin because only boxing fans know who galovkin is every mexican on the planet knows who canelo is you know a lot of spanish fans and boxing fans know who canello is you see him knockout rubia with that left hook he's a motherfucker dude boom yeah he's a motherfucker he hits very hard but really for me it highlights my appreciation for mayweather's technique i mean say what you want about him as a human being He seems to be, you know, a less than favorable human being.

[954] But, God damn, as a boxer, he's magnificent.

[955] You can't, but, admire his talent.

[956] He's magnificent.

[957] He's magnificent.

[958] I mean, he's the best ever, in my opinion.

[959] I don't think he's the most exciting ever.

[960] I don't think he's the most fan favorite.

[961] But it's the art of hitting and not getting hit.

[962] Who the fuck is better?

[963] You know, like, I had this conversation with Max Kellerman about it.

[964] He was like, Sugar Ray Robinson is so much better than him.

[965] I'm like, Sugar Ray Robinson lost to Jake Lamata.

[966] You're telling me that Florida.

[967] Boyd Mayweather would lose to Jake Lamontah?

[968] I tell you you're out of your fucking mind.

[969] I don't think Jake Lamata would lay a glove on him.

[970] I think Florida would be all over the fucking place.

[971] He'd be slipping to the left and slipping to the right and popping that jab and lead right hands and tying him up.

[972] And I just can't see him staying.

[973] It's always going to be the way though, isn't it?

[974] Or if he fought him, he'd be blah, blah, blah, blah.

[975] People are always going to have that way.

[976] They always do that.

[977] But I just think Sugar Ray took a lot of, he was an amazing fighter.

[978] But it was a different era, different mentality, different style.

[979] fighting back then different knowledge database people knew more about the effects of fighting now and sport evolves doesn't it yes technique evolves always will and always will yeah definitely that's one of the most exciting things about mama today is that you're seeing these guys like these iair Rodriguez's these young kids that are coming up 23 years of age and have so many fucking tools it's like you compare them to young people coming up 10 15 years ago there's no comparison yeah in mMA it's a much larger jump than boxing.

[980] We've got, on Infusion Live, we've got a couple of kids called Ilias Belaide and Mohamed Jaroia, two Moroccans who train.

[981] A lot of tough Moroccans, huh?

[982] Mate, they can fight.

[983] They're Moroccan magic, I call it.

[984] They are just...

[985] Bader Hari.

[986] Oh, badass.

[987] Bader is such a fucking psycho.

[988] I've commented him loads and loads of times.

[989] That guy could just stay out of jail and stop breaking people's legs and shit.

[990] Yeah.

[991] You know, he could just be able.

[992] himself and stop being naughty.

[993] Well, is the reason why he's so good, though, is he's a fucking psycho.

[994] It's a part of the reason why he's so good.

[995] He's mean.

[996] I'm not going to say anything derogatory about him because he might find me. Well, the derogatory things that I'm saying are all positive.

[997] The psycho stuff is the reason why he's so fucking good.

[998] Yeah, he's the most exciting kickboxer in the world.

[999] But it's so aggressive.

[1000] Have a look at Gioroya.

[1001] And he'll ask beliger, and they can see them.

[1002] Kickboxing is kickboxing at a higher level now than it was 20 years ago?

[1003] Yeah.

[1004] Much higher.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] I'd say them miles.

[1007] Geroa's 19.

[1008] You know, Elias is...

[1009] Geroes 19.

[1010] No, Elias is 18.

[1011] Jeroa's 18, sorry, and Elias is 19.

[1012] Only young kids.

[1013] Wow.

[1014] But, like, they've had 110 fights.

[1015] That's insane.

[1016] Like, you know, amateur and, you know, his shimp hats on.

[1017] But, you know, honestly, Joe, they're so nice kids.

[1018] They're so nice.

[1019] But getting in them rings and they just fight like, fuck.

[1020] And then when they get out, their treats like, hey, I had, hey, look, I had hamburgers and fries.

[1021] I'm very happy.

[1022] And you're like, you know, our other people are like celebrating and getting drunk and all that there.

[1023] Just look, chips.

[1024] Wow, hooray.

[1025] Just keep them away from pussy.

[1026] Yeah, well, yeah.

[1027] That's how it starts.

[1028] Yeah, so he's just like, yeah.

[1029] That's how it starts, partying.

[1030] They are the superb, really, really good kids, you know.

[1031] It's just so fast and sharp and technique and everything.

[1032] Well, that's one of the things.

[1033] it perturbs me the most, or disturbs me the most about glory.

[1034] It's like, I just, I see it, I see the level, like the Nikki Holtkins and, you know, the, the, the high level of fighter.

[1035] Nick Hulson's going into boxing now, I think.

[1036] Is he's doing that as well, right?

[1037] I don't know if he's doing it as well or he's going into it, but I know he's boxed a few times now.

[1038] Really?

[1039] Yeah.

[1040] So he might become a boxer instead?

[1041] Maybe.

[1042] I know he's doing it, though.

[1043] And it's not really common for a Dutch fighter to go into boxing now.

[1044] I think Tyron's dabbling with it, is he?

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] So as well, it's not really, Holland has not really got many boxers.

[1047] Well, Tyrant fought his last fight because it was recovering from his broken leg that he got from Gokansaki, which was devastating.

[1048] It's really rare, too, that you see a high -level kickboxer break his leg like that.

[1049] That was unusual.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] But I remember him saying to me years ago at Showtime in Brussels, he said that he wanted to fight David Hay.

[1052] Ah.

[1053] He said, I want to fight David Hay.

[1054] I want to do a boxing eye, I want to fight David Hay, and he said that to him.

[1055] David Hay seems to me to be a really good fighter, but a little too small to beat a guy like Vladimir.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] Like the Klitschko's, they're just fucking these giant guys.

[1058] He can't really reach him.

[1059] No. No, he's fighting out.

[1060] I think Vladimir's next fight, I'll be against Tyron Fiore.

[1061] Tyson Fiore from England.

[1062] Yes.

[1063] Who's the funniest guy ever?

[1064] His tweets are funny.

[1065] Yeah, he seems hilarious.

[1066] Oh, piss me. Does he have a chance?

[1067] Do you think he has a chance?

[1068] I hope so I don't know I don't know Well what I thought was interesting About Vladimir Klitschko's last fight Is the referee was admonishing him for holding And he was saying he was going to take a point away from him for holding That fucked his whole game up Yeah Because his whole game was like pop that jab pop that right hand Tie you up wrestling you fight Pavekin Yes And that was like bopopopop Jab and grab and pushing him down and stuff That's his whole game And as soon as that goes away Then he's forced to stand with guys in trade in exchange and you know he's been knocked out a few times will he do that against Fury because Fury is bigger than him Fury is actually bigger yeah than I hope Fury wins he's from Manchester is from the same area as me so right but that's just nationalism if you take away that objectively objectively do you think you beat him it's not easy not easy so that's a no I'll say no but he could he could also Vladimir is you know it was the last person knock him out was it Corey Sanders?

[1069] No, someone knocked him out after Corey Sanders, right?

[1070] Where was his name?

[1071] I don't know.

[1072] I remember it at 4 o 'clock in the morning for no reason.

[1073] It's a fucking black guy, American.

[1074] Lamont Brewster?

[1075] Yes, thank you.

[1076] He knocked him out after Corey, right?

[1077] So it was like two knockout losses in a row, wasn't it?

[1078] But they're just on it, aren't they?

[1079] They're just consummate professionals.

[1080] Well, that's another Emmanuel Stewart success story.

[1081] Emmanuel Stewart figured out how to get him to box right and you know probably engineered that whole style that he's developed too this just pop and grab style well none of her none of manual stewards were left hookers were they they were all long jab right hands you know like hernes there wasn't really like big left hookers and what about mccallum didn't mccallum fight under ammanuel mike mccallum the body snatcher maybe famous left hook to donald curry left to the body and left upstairs boom was he with hernes then was he with uh manure steward then i believe he was a cronk guy yeah i believe Yeah, you're right, because there's a video, there's a video of inspiring with McClellan.

[1082] Oh, with McClellan?

[1083] That's just, that is classic.

[1084] That's just, it was so, so amazing to watch.

[1085] It's, you know, it's art, isn't it?

[1086] Yeah.

[1087] It's a real art. It really is an art, but it's also an art with a very short amount of time you could pursue it, and a very limited number of times you can get hit.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] You know, and I think.

[1090] It is a short existence.

[1091] That's one thing that used to disturb me most about MMA gyms, maybe say 10, 15 years ago, that these guys really didn't have, there was, I shouldn't say these guys, some gyms really didn't have the best most technical striking coaches that had a deep knowledge and understanding of striking.

[1092] So these guys would be beating the fuck out of each other, just like throwing bombs at each other in the gym.

[1093] You would watch it, and they weren't working on technique.

[1094] They weren't working on.

[1095] They weren't sparring to get better at the art of hitting and not getting hit.

[1096] They were just wailing on each other.

[1097] And, you know, that was toughening them up, in quotes, air quotes.

[1098] And then they would go into the gym or go into the ring and fight.

[1099] And they were carrying all the damage that they were accumulating in these sparring sessions.

[1100] And a lot of these guys now are kind of speaking up.

[1101] Like Jamie Varner, who's a former WEC champion, top lightweight contender in the UFC just recently retired.

[1102] And he's talking about the amount of sparring that he did and how fucked up it was.

[1103] Also, he was sparring with much larger guys.

[1104] He was sparring with Ryan Bader who fights at 205 and he's fighting at 55.

[1105] And Ryan Bader's world class at 205.

[1106] So he's fighting a guy 50 fucking pounds heavier than him.

[1107] He's sparring him in the gym is madness.

[1108] It still takes its wear and tear, doesn't it?

[1109] Because the kid that's just had his debut, the last UFC that I think was in Brazil, was it?

[1110] I know anyway.

[1111] Darren Till, he's from just the same.

[1112] He lives on the same road as me. He lives in Brazil now.

[1113] Darren Till, he's good, man. He's south boy.

[1114] He's very, very good kid.

[1115] It's watch out for him.

[1116] There's a lot of good talent now.

[1117] This is an amazing time for MMA.

[1118] I mean, this is such a young and blossoming sport.

[1119] There's, and the level of striking is slowly and steadily, getting faster and faster and better and better.

[1120] It's really an amazing thing to watch.

[1121] The jih Tjitsu is getting better.

[1122] Everything's getting better.

[1123] There's no comparison whatsoever.

[1124] I mean, I don't know what the, difference between 1993 kickboxing was i mean i know there's if you watch like andy hug or mike bernardo they were very good yeah but they're probably not as good as butter harry right but the difference between say fighters from ufc one and fighters are today i mean you're talking about a massive evolution like generations of evolution like a thousand years of growth so amazing there's no comparison whatsoever that's going it's all learning very quickly from mistakes or what people have done before learning very quickly and also accumulating the techniques from other disciplines because a lot of the guys that started out they really only get at one thing either they're really good at striking or they're really good at grappling that was basically it but you're getting these guys today that are great at everything yeah and that's just uh that's just it's more complete isn't it's a complete art it was fragmented wasn't it and the first ufc started he was fragmented with people doing jiu -jitsu kick me out pat smith was it was he pat smith yeah first one of the first one of the first one ones and yeah he was his name the other one the Dutch guy which guy Alandoviot Ovalvovite Ovalvovite Ovalvovii yeah Thai boxer I've seen you fight tie boxing I've seen live twice he was tough him just unorthodox and yeah he was dangerous same trainer as Ramondeka Oh yeah Colhamers who's with Glory now he's the matchmaker for Glory he trained him yeah yeah he was an interesting guy early on in the beginning very good tie boxer but a good example of a guy who didn't know how to grapple and he would get take down to the ground and just smashed yeah he got and he got beat by a dutch kid wasn't it mm -hmm like the elbow wasn't it yeah um god damn it was his name pardieu or something remco pardu that was it yeah yeah remco got him in a headlock and took him to the ground and just blasted his brains out with elbows i mean he elbowed him like four or five times why i was unconscious leavered that ninja guy I had that on video and he just to watch it over missed make me that that was an important fight for people to realize that ninjitsu's bullshit A lot of people really believe they were going to...

[1125] Shurkin stars.

[1126] Do karate chops on people.

[1127] Yeah, the level in comparison...

[1128] Well, that's also one of the reasons why performance -enhancing drugs are so prevalent in MMAs because there's so many different things you have to work on.

[1129] Like, if you're a boxer, okay, what do you have to do?

[1130] Well, if you do your road work and then you're going to do your boxing work, you know, you do your sparring or your pad work.

[1131] I mean, that's what you do.

[1132] You spar X amount of days per week.

[1133] The other days, you're hitting pads.

[1134] and work in the bag, doing your combinations, but you're only working on one skill.

[1135] In the MMA, you're not even just working on boxing when it comes to striking.

[1136] You've got to train elbows.

[1137] You've got to train kicks.

[1138] You've got to train knees.

[1139] You've got to train a different stance because you're worried about being taken down.

[1140] So you have to work on your sprawl.

[1141] You have to work on your takedown defense, underhooks, wizards, step away from the cage, how to get back up.

[1142] Then you have to work on your jiu -jitsu.

[1143] You have to work on sweeps.

[1144] You have to work on actual submissions.

[1145] and you have to figure out like what what how much can I do like yeah and you have to get fit as well exactly we see a guy like Kane Velasquez you never see that guy attempt a submission never attempted a submission in all of his UFC fights because it's only so much shit you can do so he takes guys down he just beats him up you know instead of trying to like you know learn all the chokes and all the I mean I'm sure he probably knows them but applying them in an actual fight situation it's almost like there's too much to learn yeah I when I I went to UFC when Ross Pearson fought Cole Miller.

[1146] And then I realized how dangerous these guys are.

[1147] You know, I thought, shit, I can just kick.

[1148] You can get you on the floor and break your neck.

[1149] You know, and that tapping out is, don't kill me. Yes.

[1150] Basically, don't break my arm, don't break my leg, don't kill me. Yeah.

[1151] That's very, it's reality, isn't it?

[1152] It's real.

[1153] It's real combat, isn't it?

[1154] It certainly is.

[1155] Yeah, and that's one of the reasons why MMA has become so popular is because it's so difficult to go from that to, like, Floyd Mayweather v. Pachia, where it's like not much happens.

[1156] There's like a lot of movies, which I loved, I loved that fight.

[1157] But the reality of the variables, like the different variables that exist in MMA, where a guy can take you down, a guy can kick your legs, a guy can do so many different things to you.

[1158] You can't just stand in front of them, a shoulder roll, and box, and then clinch.

[1159] It's just so much more going on.

[1160] The clinch is just the beginning.

[1161] They're going to press you up against the cage.

[1162] You're going to pull your ankles out from under you.

[1163] They're going to mount you, elbow you to the face, going to cut you open.

[1164] It's going to be a lot going on.

[1165] It's not nearly as simple to defend yourself as it is in a boxing ring.

[1166] It's true because, I mean, it's just like looking at them, they must, they deserve the belt.

[1167] To get that belt, the UFC belt, they must deserve it.

[1168] Because there's stuff they have to go through.

[1169] To get there, to get where they want to get to get it is ridiculous.

[1170] Well, they're just to beat the fucking murderer's row.

[1171] You have to go through to get to any shot at a title.

[1172] It's like the guys you have to go through today, anybody that's fighting for a title today, like, fuck, man, you've got to earn that.

[1173] There's a goddamn massive group of contenders in every weight class that are dangerous as shit.

[1174] That's why you got off the right mindset.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] You've got off the right mindset.

[1177] Do you anticipate that this mental training thing is going to be a part of every fighter's camp in the future.

[1178] You think it should be?

[1179] I think it should be, yeah.

[1180] I think it should be.

[1181] Because you can get, you know, they can be in shape, they can, you know, the strength and conditioning, the right diet.

[1182] And then if their heads are not right, the body don't perform.

[1183] Now, what about applying that to kids?

[1184] What about applying that to kids in school?

[1185] Not fighters, just people in school.

[1186] I mean, especially in high school or in college, where you're about to go out into the, world and so much of your success or failure is predicated on your attitude your mindset and how your how your brain is is organized processing information yeah yeah i think i think a lot of it is just it's not really it should be there's so much stuff that you can do that's that's that's that can help people learn and taking information differently than just the cliche read that that's what you've got to do, you know what I mean?

[1187] That's why it's so interesting because there's people there's so many different types of people ways of thinking, you know, like we did earlier, we did the Hackleau, do you remember why we...

[1188] Why don't you explain what that is?

[1189] Hackalo is a slight self -induced, all hypnosis is self -induced.

[1190] Hackalo is a self -induced hypnosis thing where you basically you find a spot on the wall that's higher than your eye line, so you imagine that you're looking through your middle of your eyebrows, And what you do is your focus on a spot on the wall.

[1191] And you just allow yourself to just imagine that you can see all the way to the left and all the way to the right.

[1192] You can imagine that you can see really high above yourself and below yourself.

[1193] And then you can imagine that you can see 360 degrees.

[1194] And what it does, it opens your periphery, opens your peripheral vision.

[1195] So it gives you a slight hypnotic state and a slight, well, a more feeling of wellness in a way, you know, a relaxing feeling.

[1196] And what we did was you were telling me to concentrate on that spot and then visualize magnets.

[1197] Yeah, that was different.

[1198] What we did was we did hackle out first to kind of lead you into a hypnotic state to get you to.

[1199] Because, you know, you don't go, you see these things on these rapid inductions, and I went on a course of rapid inductions where...

[1200] And what is that?

[1201] Rapid inductions, they call a snap induction, so what they do is it's like you're, put um it's like a shock so you shock the cysts you shock them and then they then you go sleep or whatever and it puts them under very quickly you see you can see it on youtube and all sorts so i don't i can do them um they're very showy techniques as well um but i don't really dig them how does it work the shock induction you're saying sleep because your mind needs information your mind needs your unconscious needs information so you can like There's one where you shake hands with someone.

[1202] So when they go to shake your hand, you break the pattern and make them look at their own hand.

[1203] And then you say, look at me, look at that.

[1204] Focus on that.

[1205] It's a confusion technique.

[1206] And then you say, just focus on your hand and then push their hand together and head sleep.

[1207] And they go under.

[1208] Just like that?

[1209] Yes, sir.

[1210] Why do they go under?

[1211] Why don't they go, what the fuck are you doing my hand, man?

[1212] Well, there's always that possibility.

[1213] Hence me not.

[1214] I've seen it done.

[1215] I have done it with people.

[1216] But it's all, I've done it when I've been in therapy with the client already because I'm talking hypnotic language and do various things and stuff and just maneuver them into that state.

[1217] So I don't really, you see people walking up on the street and these street hypnosis and all that, which is...

[1218] Street hypnosis?

[1219] Yeah, there's a few guys that do street hypnosis are very good.

[1220] Vince Lynch, he's very good.

[1221] Did he do it like as a show, was on television or something?

[1222] No, he was doing it in the street in Vegas.

[1223] He was making people's hands stick to work.

[1224] walls and what really yeah I don't see it's good and it's it's have you never seen it no oh yeah they do it yeah it's street hypnosis I've seen street magic it's not street hypnosis huh yeah so they make people forget the names or you know count remove the number four so they go one two three five six seven eight nine huh eleven but it's it's it's fun to watch but I not doesn't well that doesn't interest you because what you're trying to do is improve people or help them improve their lives right not he looks stupid well when I was a kid when I was first starting out doing stand -up there was a guy in Rhode Island named Frank Santos and he was an R -rated hypnotist and up until that point I thought hypnosis was bullshit until I saw this guy over and over again many many many many many times he had a night once a week at Stitch's Comedy Club in Boston so I saw him dozens and dozens of times and he would have hypnotized giant and he knew when people were under and when they were bullshitting.

[1225] He would get guys, he would look at them, and he would go, no, you're not, this is not working, you're faking it.

[1226] Come on, and he would take them off the stage.

[1227] He knew when people were under, he knew when they weren't.

[1228] But he could get a whole group of people, maybe, like, bring 10 people on stage, and by the time he's done hypnotized them, six or seven of them would be totally under.

[1229] And he'd have them doing all kinds of ridiculous things.

[1230] Like, they thought they were having sex.

[1231] They'd come in their pants.

[1232] Like, really amazing.

[1233] I mean, I know for you, you're thinking.

[1234] like this isn't helping anyone what he wasn't trying to do that he was trying to put on a show was you know people paid to see it it was fun and if people are paid to see it and they want to go on stage free will no problem um i've done it before we part and parcel of when we were part and parcel i said it again son of a bitch it's that coffee blame the coffee blame the coffee well anyway sorry sorry sorry about that viewers so i don't i don't dig that it just doesn't do anything for me and But how are they doing that?

[1235] Because it's, they, if you go to a hypotherapist and they say, you can't hypnotize me, then fuck off.

[1236] What did you come for?

[1237] Right.

[1238] You know, what's the point?

[1239] You know, you got a pizza or to buy a pizza.

[1240] You know, what comes to the hypotherapist?

[1241] You come to get hypnotized, you know?

[1242] So you half go along with it anyway, you know?

[1243] And it helps if the client's got an issue, they want to change, then they're more likely to change if they want to change with you.

[1244] you know but the people that do on the stage they just they want it to happen to them they don't mind looking daft so that's cool but what I did with you is we did the magnet as well which was just just stood away because we did the peripheral vision then we just imagine that there was a magnet that could take negative energy from your body and what that does is you use your own imagination to take the negative energy out you do move There's loads of weird stuff that...

[1245] But what is happening there, really?

[1246] Because obviously there's no magnet and your mind thinking that negative energy is being pulled out of your body.

[1247] Is that just an adjustment of your attitude or an adjustment of your perceptions?

[1248] Who knows?

[1249] Who knows?

[1250] Who knows?

[1251] But all I know is it works very, very well.

[1252] And it's relaxing.

[1253] And is that related at all to what Frank Santos used to do by getting an entire group of people to think that they were doing wacky shit in front of an audience?

[1254] Because it's, yeah, it's the installation.

[1255] of what is the installation that's different you know there was no magnet as you said they're not having sex right it's an installation right but I didn't really think that there was a magnet I know of course but they don't they don't they don't they go on there for that experience don't right they go on that for that experience but you know it's irrespective whether you believe there's a magnet or not it's the end result if you feel more relaxed right it's almost like a placebo effect indeed right yeah so the placebo effect or the mind perceiving this change and then adjusting your attitude accordingly that that's what it is it's about just um redirection of thought redirection of focus but that was different than the hypnosis part because the hypnosis part when you hypnotize me like I was definitely hypnotized like I definitely could I could listen to your voice and I knew that I was hearing your voice but I was in this weird sort of dream state yeah I was aware of it but not aware of it yeah like if you took my pants off we'd have a problem yeah I would be I would have woke up and what the fuck this guy trying to pull but you know I'm saying I was trying to pull you I wasn't but I wasn't I wasn't you know it's a weird state because you're not you're not totally there but you're kind of there is that a good way describing it yeah yeah are you hit you're you're still there you're not going to do anything that's against your values anyway really but you're not going to do anything yeah well like but wouldn't anyway because I'm not like that I'm not like that as a hypothera therapist or as a mind coach and um what we did with you is we uh we we got you to focus on your thumb that thumb so we didn't say your thumb that thumb so you disassociate yourself instead of saying your thumb we said that thumb we focus on that thumb and then you just get your focus on that and then there was a there was a structure like uh as you want to free yourself for it's for it's good to do that one two three four you know so you just like counting down as well no do you do you do you you are you accounting note but using numbers you know right so it's a cause a sort of you you're focusing on that if you're focusing on that then you're unconscious mind so you're focusing that and i'm talking to you with language that that your unconscious mind recognize is to be relaxing are you aware of all at all rather of um like the concept of like a manchurian candidate yeah what do you think about that um have you ever watched derron brown Darren Brown hypnotist Right Darren Brown Yeah he's a hypnotist He's an entertainer He's a magician as well He's fantastic Yeah And he did one called the experiments I think you can watch them on YouTube And he did one where They shot Stephen Fry Stephen Fry's like a English comedian guy And he's very posh Very very very intelligent guy A member of Menser But super smart And they He got this certain guy They did a lot of elimination techniques, you know, to see he was most susceptible, and they used a certain guy to go and shoot Stephen Fry, you know, not with a real gun, obviously, but just whether, I don't know.

[1256] I don't know.

[1257] It's interesting, I don't know.

[1258] There is a case where I watched, when he assassinated someone and he said, definitely I was under hypnosis, and whatever he's just saying that while he's in prison, I don't know, you know.

[1259] So, wow, so do you think it's possible?

[1260] I mean, you would know, right?

[1261] Probably more than 99 % of the people on the planet.

[1262] I think if it's against your deep level value, you won't do it.

[1263] But what if you're fairly shady, but innocent?

[1264] Oh, it's darkness, Jews, that's very dark.

[1265] Right?

[1266] I mean, if you find a guy who's not, maybe never killed anybody, but maybe he's done a few fucked up things, and you can talk that guy into doing something like that through hypnosis.

[1267] Yeah, possibly.

[1268] Maybe.

[1269] Because you're essentially steering someone towards a crime that they ordinarily would have avoided.

[1270] Well, did you see this, again, on YouTube, an Italian hypnotist and took money off the cashier.

[1271] She got just took money out of the register.

[1272] No. Yeah, they's done that.

[1273] And Darren Brown played it on television?

[1274] No, he did it.

[1275] It was captured on CCTV.

[1276] Oh, so he was a thief?

[1277] Yes.

[1278] And there was one where Darren Brown paid with paper.

[1279] So what he did is he gets paper.

[1280] which is the same as, you know, like dollar bills.

[1281] You like to say, just blank paper.

[1282] And there's a confusion technique.

[1283] So he said, don't quote me on the script.

[1284] But he said, I've just moved into the town or I just got off the train and I don't know whether to go that way or that way because my friend said, you have to get the terrain, but I don't know where to go that way or that way.

[1285] But you know where the station is, but he said, get the train, he says, take it, it's fine.

[1286] And then when he's, when he said, he said, we just take it, it's fine.

[1287] So that confused as the people say, that way or that way.

[1288] So it's mixed directing your things.

[1289] thought so he's moving his hands everywhere she's thinking what's this guy on about then he's saying take it it's fine so when he's giving the money he's like look he said oh can I buy that and he just gives them paper and that that's still confused not for long because they soon come around and go like fuck you do it but he confuses them but saying take it it's fine take it's fine so these I've worked at a um like an ice cream place when I was a kid they served ice cream and hamburgers was a place called Newport Creamery and I remember um they had someone came in that they called a flim -flam artist where someone would come in and they would give you $20 and they'd say, can you give me a 10, a 5, and 5 -1s?

[1290] And then they would say, okay, okay, actually, can you give me a 10, 5, 5 -1s and 4 quarters?

[1291] No, you know what?

[1292] Give me 2 tens and then they would start 2 tens of 5 and 4 quarters.

[1293] And then all of a sudden you'd have more than $20 that you'd be giving them for their money.

[1294] and the manager closed the register.

[1295] They went, hold on a second, what is going on here?

[1296] And they shut the register and they had like this sort of weird eye -to -eye moment with this guy who was trying to hustle this kid that was working the cash register.

[1297] It was really fascinating.

[1298] It was like a guy who was a con man. And I remember I was near it.

[1299] I wasn't involved in it.

[1300] I wasn't working on the cash register, but I was close to it.

[1301] I forget what I was doing.

[1302] But I remember watching this going.

[1303] what's going to what is something happening here and then they had like a little meeting they explained when you're working the cash register you have to be careful people that start asking you for weird things asking you to you know because they start twisting your brain and confusing you and your memory gets all fucked up and you're trying to memorize what they're asking for and before you know it you've given someone $30 for $20 yeah I had someone did that I worked at a health club quite a few years ago and um the guy came in and he went it's frankin who was the owner I said no he said I've brought his chain for his wife I mentioned his wife's name it's 20 quid so I went Oh right give him 20 quid That was it And when he walked out And then Frank come by And I said You know I paid for that The repair of that You know bracelet And what he'd done is He'd come in He talked to someone At the bat Who owns He works Who's the bandage of Frank Where's you know I'm sure I know Frank What's his wife's name Whatever a name was And then Muppet at this and Muppet at the reception Hey, okay, there is the money, anything else?

[1304] You know, it was done to me, so he gave you like a shitty chain.

[1305] Yeah, but I just went, and you gave him 20, you know?

[1306] That's, yeah, it's, that's a weird hustle, that hustle of trying to confuse people, but there must be patterns that they try to tap into in the way people recognize money or the way people count things that they try to disrupt and cause confusion.

[1307] Yeah, numbers, words, Especially words, can confuse people and send them off guard.

[1308] We did a thing when we did the master's with a neurolinguistic program, we did a thing called Quantum Linguistics, which is really interesting, it's really cool, makes you laugh, because it just doesn't make no sense.

[1309] One of the best language patterns I was saying, I always, when I was younger, I was always self -sabotage, and I said, I always self -sabotage, a guy called Chris Bannock, who did my master's with.

[1310] And I said, I imagine there's a wasness, and I've got a stick Don't go near it Because you'll get stung But because I was your I always thought Fuck it anyway You'll get stung And just see what happens I'll fight these people stupid You're younger he daft aren't you And he said What wouldn't happen if it Pretended not to do it So when he said What wouldn't happen If you pretended not to do it Right And I was like what And it doesn't make sense No But it sends your mind in it Especially when you're in that Sort of that You know Right what wouldn't happen If you pretended not to do it So if you pretend not to do it but still do it So if you're pretending not to do it You're doing it so what wouldn't happen Well you wouldn't get stung It wouldn't happen is you wouldn't get stung Yeah but what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it That's a sort of stone thing in it It's like what wouldn't happen if you're like You need to learn how to talk better motherfucker Are you talking crazy But it's like in that situation where you When it's not like dropped on you You know you don't knock on the top on the shoulder Say well we'll never pretend to it In the, in the, in the, cliche therapy thing and the paratotherapy situation, when it's, when it's put in it, it's glided in with language, it works so smoothly.

[1311] Do you pay attention at all to cults?

[1312] Do you pay attention at all?

[1313] Because I'm fascinated by people's ability to control people, other people's minds and behavior.

[1314] And I've always wondered whether or not, like, when you see, like, you've seen the Scientology documentary going clear?

[1315] I've started watching it.

[1316] Oh.

[1317] I started watching it.

[1318] Oh, it's fucking fascinating, man. I've watched it three times.

[1319] I can't look away.

[1320] I might watch it again.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] I'll have to watch it.

[1323] It's fucking crazy.

[1324] I love to watch it.

[1325] Well, I had experience.

[1326] I've known several people that were Scientologists, but one of them was one of my neighbors.

[1327] And, you know, he and I had some weird exchange about his wife was going clear, so he needed $50 ,000.

[1328] I was like, what?

[1329] 50, fucking grand.

[1330] Like, whoa, what's going on?

[1331] And he was like, they're going to do some ceremony, and his wife will no longer be influenced by outside pressure or, you know, outside thoughts or anybody's criticisms or negativity.

[1332] She should no longer do no longer affect her.

[1333] And they needed 50 grand for that.

[1334] What the fuck?

[1335] But he fucking looking at his eye, he was telling me, like, oranges have vitamin C in him.

[1336] You know, like, for him, it was, like, pretty straightforward.

[1337] Obviously.

[1338] And I've always been fascinated like, what it?

[1339] What the fuck is going on with a cult?

[1340] My friend, my friend named Aidan Pearz, he was into Scientology.

[1341] I don't know where he still is.

[1342] I don't think he is.

[1343] But he went to Flag, which is it the base where the Scientologists have, the main place, what they have.

[1344] And Tom Cruise's sister is named Ada.

[1345] Sorry, Tom Cruise's sister's child, he's named Aidan after him.

[1346] Whoa.

[1347] So he was into it.

[1348] I went to it.

[1349] I went to it a couple of times years and years ago.

[1350] And I creep me out a bit But I'm not so I don't know If it whenever floats your boat If it's not causing you any But I haven't seen that going clear So I don't know about anything I say I agree with that as well If it's not hurting you And what do I give a fuck I agree with that as well Until you start watching these documentaries You go well clearly it's hurting some people It's definitely hurting people It's breaking up families It's really fucked up The way they attack some people That dissent or that leave or, I mean, if the people that are on the show, the documentary that are telling, if they're telling the truth, and that's debatable, you know, only they know and the people that they're talking about, no, there's some mind control going on there.

[1351] There's some absolute, definite mind control going on there.

[1352] And I wonder, is that related in any way to hypnosis, the ability that these people have to manipulate these folks into...

[1353] Look at Hitler's speech, Mind Kampf.

[1354] Right.

[1355] Look what Hitler did.

[1356] you know so people maybe are searching for something to be influenced do you know what I mean so it's always going to be a lot easier you know so it's going to be there's always going to be susceptible people there is always going to be susceptible people but is cult like when you see like a Jim Jones speech or you know when someone is giving some sort of a cultish speech is that similar in some ways to hypnosis?

[1357] It has to resonate doesn't it right it has to resonate with with the people with the person with the people um i won't say it's hypnosis but just say it has to resonate with what they believe in and you know and what they they they they they float's the boat i guess you know what i mean it can latch on to it's like cold reading isn't it you know like what cold reading yeah what's that psychics you know oh okay stuff like um cold reading and acting by the way no no it's cold means a different thing you get a script yeah no it's trying to think what is he talking about no it's different cold eating's different i went to uh malta a couple of years ago was in malta no it was roads in greece anyway i digress and um we went over and we got stung by the timeshare people and they the or anyway no one was going on and on to me and she said uh what do you do in english and i'm a psychic she went really went yeah i'm a psychic she went oh right i said you had a not you had an accident near water a scare maybe before you was 10.

[1358] I'm getting 10 for some reason.

[1359] He was 10 and she went, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[1360] You're right?

[1361] Yeah, you've got a scar on one of your knees.

[1362] Yeah, I've got a scar on my left knee.

[1363] I thought, yeah, I thought you did.

[1364] Do you know what I mean?

[1365] And, you know, you've been really, you've been, you've had some, you know, you've had some limelight, but you don't mind other people and you've had a lot of close friends.

[1366] You've got, you've got a lot of friends, but you've only got a certain amount of close ones.

[1367] So everyone resonates with that.

[1368] Like horoscopes.

[1369] Everyone sort of like clings onto that.

[1370] You know, there's all sorts of, you know, psychics and people say, oh, wow, they knew this.

[1371] Fuck, that stuff drives me crazy.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] I have a friend who believes that shit.

[1374] He went to somebody.

[1375] He's like, man, they told me all about my grandmother.

[1376] I'm like, bitch, don't you know about your grandmother?

[1377] They're telling you some shit you already know.

[1378] What kind of psychic is that?

[1379] That doesn't make any sense.

[1380] And I never understood it until we had this guy.

[1381] Do you know who Bannichick is?

[1382] Yes.

[1383] I had Bannichick on the sci -fi show that I did.

[1384] Joe Rogan questions everything.

[1385] And he was brilliant and stunning and scary.

[1386] Scary how good he is at it.

[1387] But also super honest.

[1388] He's like, I'll tell you right now, I'm not a psychic.

[1389] I don't have any psychic ability at all.

[1390] This is all bullshit.

[1391] And I hate when people steal from people and rob them.

[1392] What I'm doing is entertainment and it's a show.

[1393] And I have very specific techniques that I use to achieve this.

[1394] Yeah, that's why I don't, I can't think of anything else.

[1395] That's why I don't fuck around when I do hypnosis and do this.

[1396] Right.

[1397] right no no well he wasn't not the game is it he wasn't doing hypnosis he was just pretending to be able to read your mind and be able to put it was all but he was really really clear about it saying these are just techniques I am not really seeing anything that other people can't see I don't have any special ability but the people that do claim that like I don't know how it is in England but in California in particular you'll drive down the street you'll see four or five of these fucking sites psychic readings.

[1398] Chiropractors and that.

[1399] There's loads of chiropractors as well.

[1400] There's loads in America.

[1401] It's chiropractic bullshit?

[1402] Is that what you're saying?

[1403] No, I'm not saying it is.

[1404] There's loads of chiropractors.

[1405] You see that, Tarot, and you're driving on the street in chiropractor.

[1406] You don't see that many in England.

[1407] A lot of people think chiropractors are bullshit, too.

[1408] It's like a lot of reputable people think it's bullshit.

[1409] Right.

[1410] They're just moving your neck around.

[1411] Click.

[1412] Click and back.

[1413] I'm killed.

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] But it costs a lot of money, too.

[1417] You go, 150 bucks.

[1418] And they're just twisted around.

[1419] Popping your back.

[1420] but then some people say like there's certain things that chiropractors do that really are beneficial so the fuck do you believe yeah the ones i've i've been to a couple of times they wouldn't have been here they've been good i felt all right afterwards well there's this one guy that used to work with a lot of fighters and he was what they call a zone healer and his idea was that he was like sort of tricking your body into healing because he was sort of using the placebo effect telling you that he was healing you by popping your your neck or moving your body in a certain way, but he really wasn't doing anything other than shit of normal.

[1421] Caraprapture does.

[1422] Is he still working?

[1423] I don't know.

[1424] Try not to pay attention to that shit.

[1425] That stuff drives me nuts.

[1426] Because it's deception.

[1427] Whether or not it's effective or not is debatable, because deception can be effective, right?

[1428] And isn't that sort of part of what, you know, what the placebo effect is?

[1429] This is what I'm against the hypnosis thing, really, is what the point I was trying to make is I don't fuck around with people.

[1430] Right.

[1431] You know, they comfort to you for help they genuinely want you help they genuinely want to get where they want to get to and you can't fuck around with people right it's not fair they pay you and they're looking for you to help them out i buzz off it because then you you achieve something together you know it's good i like that but yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of shit in everything though ain't they there's a lot of crap there's more shocking chefs and good ones you know what i mean and isn't that it was also a lot there's a lot of manipulation and a lot of charlatans and so almost every line of work right yeah yeah but isn't that it's it's sort of it's relative to what we're talking about it's like what is your focus like what are you trying to achieve what do you try to achieve as a coach yeah as a coach you're trying to help people and make them better what are you trying to achieve as whatever you're doing as a salesperson are you trying to sell people something that's an actual great product like a really nice car yeah like this is a car if you enjoy cars you will enjoy this car is great or are you selling them a fucking shitbox that's been taped together and it's going to fall apart the moment they get it out of the driveway you know what is your ultimate goal you're trying to help people you're trying to have a beneficial mutually agreeable relationship or you're trying to read their palm and get money out of them you're fucking with them or aren't I amazing sim yeah I'm fucking amazing like I never you know like the success that joe's had uh Joe's showing yeah and the success that many of my clients have had, I don't go, it was me, you know, because it's all about the client.

[1432] They do it.

[1433] I like the, I like winning.

[1434] And of course, there's some sort of pat on the back for myself, by me. But I don't run around and go, aren't I amazing?

[1435] Because the end of the big day.

[1436] But is it a pat on the back or is it just an appreciation for the method?

[1437] Appreciation of the method.

[1438] And appreciate, you know, it doesn't stop shocking me how well it works at times, you know.

[1439] 99 .9 % of the time.

[1440] It's just a shock.

[1441] Even now, even now that I've been involved in it, eight years now, it's just, I don't know, it's just, I don't know, it's just, I don't know, I don't know, my buzz off it.

[1442] You can tell a buzz off it and stop jumping around about it.

[1443] How many years have you been doing it full time?

[1444] Eight.

[1445] Full time, eight?

[1446] No, I'm half and half.

[1447] But training as well, training fighters?

[1448] I was, and then I was training fighters.

[1449] I got kind of bored of it.

[1450] I was, I'd achieve what I wanted to.

[1451] My fighters had reached a level.

[1452] I was getting bored, and I wasn't giving them the attention I should do.

[1453] I decided to stop that and then I had a regular job anyway and then I just started to get mind coaching and word of mouth like you got to know me through word of mouth and then it's just spread from there and it continues to do so I still commentate I still commentate as well I commentate from Fusion and from Yoko Muay Thai shows and smash Moitai as well it's in England which is good shows and I still do that you know I've done GFC and you know different things like that But I still commentate a lot for Yoko and Infusion and Smash Moit Thai.

[1454] And just do that as well.

[1455] But I just, I've got a lot of clients from America now.

[1456] I'm up at stupid o 'clock in the morning, you know, doing it on Skype.

[1457] But it's great.

[1458] Yeah, what is there, eight hour or ten hour difference between us?

[1459] Something like that.

[1460] I don't mind.

[1461] Something nutty.

[1462] I buzz off it.

[1463] I genuinely buzz off it.

[1464] I love the, I like it.

[1465] Well, that's great.

[1466] I mean, that's really what life is all about, finding something that you really enjoy, that you get that buzz off of and pursuing that.

[1467] And if you can make a living at that.

[1468] Well, you're the same, aren't you?

[1469] you can tell you're animated by what you do yeah well i'm just super lucky that i found a bunch of different things that i really enjoyed doing like just this i think you good at as well well how about this i mean the ability or the um opportunity rather to have a conversation like this with a guy like you sit down for hours totally uninterrupted it's very rare to get this it's almost like the only way to get these kind of conversations yeah is to have this kind of conversation where you know it's being broadcasts because otherwise we'd be checking our phone we'd be talking you know do you want a beard do you want a diss and that oh this fucking guy is annoying and this thing is happening to me and I keep saying part and parcel all that you wouldn't you know you probably wouldn't do that but but you know what I mean like this is this the only way you have these intense one -on -one conversations is in a podcast form yeah so in a lot of ways this podcast has been incredibly educational it's been like this like like a almost like a very varied university course on a bunch of different disciplines It's like, what I appreciate, it's like, you know, you said about Mike McCollum and the left hook, and I like that.

[1470] You know, and I went, I went, oh, yeah, I forgot about him.

[1471] And I like, I'm not eaglitistical enough to think I know everything.

[1472] You know, it's, you know, I don't, there's a lot of them.

[1473] I seen, like I said, a rapid induction course, and the guy was just like, he was doing this hypnosis gun, and he's going to sleep.

[1474] And this other guy was going, oh, fuck.

[1475] Right, but isn't that similar like that fucking, those bullshit kung fu guys, they're like, like, ha, and their students fall to the ground.

[1476] can do that.

[1477] Don't you think that's, is that hypnosis too?

[1478] What is going on with that?

[1479] It is bullshit.

[1480] It is bullshit, right?

[1481] It's just idiots.

[1482] But what's happening with the students?

[1483] Because they're pricks.

[1484] The students, though, that are fall onto the ground, they're twitching.

[1485] Yeah, but they're just daft, aren't they?

[1486] Are they, or are they under the hypnosis power of suggestion?

[1487] Yeah, maybe it's a suggestion, or maybe it's just that they're not all there.

[1488] There is a lot of weird people about, you know you're going to say idiots and you went weird i like it i kind of switched it in the middle changed a trajectory of the rocket that would have got me in trouble that is the problem right like some people have big noses and some people are idiots some people have got gray hair some people yeah it's like the genetics vary there's not everybody could be Einstein no no and some people you go ha and they fall to the ground I mean it's good though isn't it I've seen some videos of fake kung fu and it's fucking amazing like there's this one dude and he was teaching this class and he had this this girl and he was moving her back and forth and back and forth like like like a comedy yeah like it was a comedy but it was real and and he you know he'd make her dance and shock her and then she would fall to the ground and she's flopping around like a fish one there that guy's like gets his student he's like a big bellied guy and he's geon and then she does this huh and he goes give him an Oscar That was a right performance.

[1489] He just, like, flops on the deck, and his arm flew in the eye.

[1490] That was proper funny.

[1491] I mean, because I'm here at the moment in America with Jordan Watson, who's like a superstar in Muay Thai, and we was watching it.

[1492] We was pissing ourselves laughing.

[1493] It was funny.

[1494] Well, there's a lot of that out there, man. There's a lot of that fake kung fu stuff out there.

[1495] Less and less now than there was in 1993.

[1496] When the UFC came along, it's one of the things that the UFC has done that's amazing is eradicate a lot of the bullshit martial arts.

[1497] There's a lot of fake practitioners out there.

[1498] And, you know, Eddie Bravo has this hilarious story of this fake kung fu teacher that he was taking lessons under.

[1499] You know, he was a young kid.

[1500] He didn't know any better.

[1501] And the guy was going to China to study under his master.

[1502] And Eddie ran into him at the supermarket when the guy was supposed to be in China.

[1503] He said, what the fuck is going?

[1504] And then he realized this guy doesn't take a kung fu.

[1505] He's just making shit up.

[1506] Like, everything he was doing was just totally made up, you know, like he was karate chopping people on the top of the head and saying you'd kill them.

[1507] if you hit them correctly but it's that that sort of mcdojo type fake martial art stuff was really really really prevalent a few decades ago yeah but I grew up with drunken master um yeah drunken master and all them oh yeah all the run run shore movies you know golden harvest well those are fun to watch to pretend you know you're watching an old Jackie Chan movie and he's fucking crazy shit but the drunken master as the one.

[1508] He's beating him up with a teatow.

[1509] Sam Seed.

[1510] It's funny.

[1511] It's a comedy, though.

[1512] It seems funny.

[1513] Yeah, but it's still there.

[1514] And I tell you, I really like police story with Jackie Chan the first one.

[1515] That was good.

[1516] That was wicked, that was.

[1517] He's mad, Jackie Chan.

[1518] But a lot of those movies had people believing that there were people out there that had chi and death touch and, you know.

[1519] When you want, I just, I mean, to bring it back to what you do, do you, do you, do you, Do you think there's any of that that's hypnosis?

[1520] Is there anything that's similar to, like, what I said, Frank Santos used to be able to do?

[1521] Um, I don't know.

[1522] Is it?

[1523] Honestly, I don't know.

[1524] Devotion that they have towards their sensei or their, there's...

[1525] Yeah, it's bananas, aren't they?

[1526] They just fucking crazy.

[1527] Yeah, they believe what he says.

[1528] So they're like, oh, yeah, he can do this.

[1529] But how is that different than a guy who thinks, like, I watched a guy who thought he was having sex with Madonna and he came in his pants?

[1530] Because Frank Santos put that in his head.

[1531] and he did that.

[1532] I watched it.

[1533] And the guy was like, like, he didn't know.

[1534] He came in his, I mean, this guy wasn't that good of an actor.

[1535] He just wasn't.

[1536] He was embarrassed.

[1537] He didn't know what to do.

[1538] And he kind of like slunked over and sat in the corner.

[1539] If he was, if he was a ham, he would have spent, it just was, you could tell this guy really believed that.

[1540] At that particular time, where he was at that particular, in that particular place, yeah, he did believe it.

[1541] I mean, you've seen people with needles, and they have, you know, needle through the hand and they don't feel the pain you can do you can do that there's an interesting one called pain paradigm which I'll talk to you about another time and um anticipation there you're next week to us and um there's you know I mean just yeah there's all sorts of things that we who knows what the mind's capable of we're only just you know I'm only a postman of information really I mean what really can we do what will you develop it that's an interesting way to describe it a post minimum information that's what keith may and my first teacher said we're just postman of information i like that um i just i'm really fascinated by the the full spectrum for lack of a better term of possibilities of suggestion that you can go from you know fake psychics and fake healers and like my friend brian and i were at the comedy store last Like, did you see that, were you there when you saw the woman was trying to do the rakey healing on us?

[1542] It was hilarious because I knew I was going to talk to you today and I knew she was full of shit.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] And she was, or she probably thinks it's real.

[1545] But she was like, can you feel the energy?

[1546] I'm like waving.

[1547] Like she said, put your, put your left hand out because left hands are more sensitive, more susceptible.

[1548] Like, okay.

[1549] So I have my hand out.

[1550] And she is like running her hand over the top and the bottom, like not touching my hand, but getting close to it.

[1551] Like, do you feel it?

[1552] Do you feel anything?

[1553] And I'm like, no, I'm trying to be open -minded, but I don't feel anything.

[1554] But some people would be like, yes, I do feel it.

[1555] I think it's what you want to believe.

[1556] And I think my beliefs, like people that are psychics, and you go to see these tarot card readers, et cetera.

[1557] If they give people comfort and makes people feel better and, you know, got more power to him.

[1558] Right, more power to them.

[1559] You know, if they believe it, half the time, if they believe that this is Reiki, I don't know.

[1560] and then if they believe it and it works and people are happy doing it and we might go but it's but where's the line drawn is the line drawn when you're taking money from them there is piss takers in the world didn't they piss take piss takers what is um can't you know taking the piss well okay you guys fucking with somebody yeah fucking with someone yeah okay taking the piss yeah um yeah but but more so than that someone who like is pretending to be healing, but they're stealing money from you.

[1561] They're not really healing you.

[1562] Well, it's like anyone that sells a, I don't know, a vitamin that have this.

[1563] Right, a snake oil.

[1564] Snake oil, yeah, of course.

[1565] A snake oil, oh, take this and you'll definitely change.

[1566] But what about fucking the real placebo effect?

[1567] That's where it gets really weird because, like, there are some placebos that they have introduced to people, and they've told them it's a placebo.

[1568] Yeah.

[1569] But the act of doing something.

[1570] The act of taking something actually has a more beneficial effect than not doing anything.

[1571] Yeah.

[1572] Which is, again, the power of the mind.

[1573] Like, the placebo effect is a real effect.

[1574] You give someone something, you tell them this is medicine.

[1575] This is going to fix whatever ails you.

[1576] And it actually does work on a certain percentage, a statistically significant percentage of the people that actually works.

[1577] Amulets work the same, don't they?

[1578] Amulets.

[1579] Amulets, right?

[1580] Like crystals and shit.

[1581] Yeah, amulets work the same.

[1582] Like, a lot of Thai people believe in they put a butter on and it gives a protection off.

[1583] Or even good luck, right?

[1584] Yeah.

[1585] I got my lucky quarter.

[1586] Oh, Dumbo, isn't it?

[1587] You know, with the feather, lucky feather.

[1588] Right.

[1589] You know, and he believes he can fly with the lucky feather, it comes out, all that, you know, the rest.

[1590] Yeah, it's all, I think it's all down to you, isn't it?

[1591] It's all down of what you put into your intention and what you want to believe for yourself, you know?

[1592] But isn't it weird that we have these minds that have such amazing potential?

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] But there's no fucking real good guidebook that anybody's handed.

[1595] And you're sort of supposed to figure it out on your own, or be it.

[1596] Based on if you're lucky, you have parents that have their shit together, and they sort of give you a rough outline of how you should live your life or live by example.

[1597] But we're not talking about like goldfish or swans or anything fucking simple.

[1598] We're talking about human beings with complex languages and mathematics and culture and society and laws and money and all the weirdness that comes with being a person.

[1599] Good, isn't it?

[1600] Yes.

[1601] It's good, though.

[1602] It is.

[1603] That's why it's so exciting.

[1604] Well, that is so exciting.

[1605] I'm from a bloodline of Merlin and Sherlock.

[1606] Yes.

[1607] And Merlin Holmes.

[1608] There you go.

[1609] It sounds like real estate.

[1610] But that's, I just like that.

[1611] I like that.

[1612] I like the mystery.

[1613] I do too.

[1614] I like them.

[1615] Because I can see your, you think, I like that.

[1616] It's interesting.

[1617] And that's what keeps you going in life, I think, when you find something interesting and you're trying to, you know, it's always better to be interested instead of interesting.

[1618] Oh, yeah.

[1619] For sure.

[1620] I mean, that's one of the things.

[1621] that I appreciate most about being able to do this podcast is that I'm constantly and consistently inspired and curious.

[1622] I'm always learning.

[1623] You can't know everything.

[1624] It is not possible.

[1625] There is too much going on.

[1626] And once you accept that, then you're just looking for stuff that you find stimulating and then find more and more things that you find fascinating.

[1627] And this podcast has given me this really unique opportunity to talk to people like you or, you know, anybody who has some information that I'm not really aware of.

[1628] I'm massively honored to be on here because, you know, I'm from I'm just from Liverpool.

[1629] I'm from Newton.

[1630] Yeah, I know, but, you know, I'm just like you know, but you know, but he's coming in there and then Joe says so nice things.

[1631] Ian McCall says nice things and I get to do seminars and get to meet people and I love it.

[1632] I'm just buzzing off it at the moment.

[1633] Well, that's what life is all about really is finding something like that that you really enjoy doing and then pursuing it and then if you can, God, if you can make a living doing that, what a great way to be you know yeah yeah i like people i like you no i like people like i don't take everyone on as a client because some people just think no right no you best go somewhere else have you had like people that are like shitty or just not appreciative i kind of sussed them out quickly do you try to explain to them why you're not doing this and maybe you give them like some uh yeah i just help for the future Yeah, I just Yeah, I just say Well, I can't or I'm busy Or just the normal stuff And, you know, or Depends on what it is It's not often, I'll be honest with you It's not often that happens But yeah, it does happen I just kind of deter them You know There's one guy saying, it was one guy recently He's like, yeah, everyone in my team thinks I'm rubbish, I can't fight And I can't talk to you now My wife's in bed And just like, oh, They don't, yeah, all right.

[1634] You know, just loads of things in its way.

[1635] You just thought, no. That's too much work.

[1636] Like, if you can't, yeah.

[1637] Too much hassle.

[1638] No sovereignty.

[1639] It's too much hassle.

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] But like Underdogs triumphant.

[1642] I like that.

[1643] Even out of gym, you know, people that didn't win fights under all gyms, and they won under me. I like that.

[1644] It's just good to, I don't know, just to give them that buzz.

[1645] And you feel good about it.

[1646] You say, I think, yes.

[1647] Obviously, it's something that other people didn't like that.

[1648] Right.

[1649] Yeah, the ability to help people and the satisfaction that comes from other people benefiting from your effort is a very nice thing.

[1650] Yeah, I had a lady, an equestrian lady called Dawn Tainter at the minute.

[1651] She's, I forgot where she is, somewhere in the States, and she's doing really well.

[1652] It's just a transformation has been incredible, and she's, you know, while her students are so much better, her sponsors are like really warming to her.

[1653] She's riding better and stuff like that.

[1654] And it's just moving things out of people's way.

[1655] It's kicking it out.

[1656] All right.

[1657] So if people want to get a hold of you, what is the best way?

[1658] Your Twitter handle is Vinnie Shoreman.

[1659] What is it?

[1660] Vinny Showtime is 69.

[1661] The reason why it's called Showtime, it's not perverted in 69.

[1662] Showtime is I used to be a comment and say it for its showtime.

[1663] And 69 was a year was born.

[1664] Oh, yeah.

[1665] Nothing perverted there.

[1666] That's a problem, right, isn't it?

[1667] That number, 69.

[1668] I'm going to have to change that, I think.

[1669] Well, it's a lot of great cars from 1969.

[1670] 29.

[1671] And it's when they landed on the moon.

[1672] Yeah.

[1673] And you can get me on vinyshorman .com.

[1674] And also you can get me on Facebook.

[1675] There's a Facebook of mine coaching page where there's techniques and videos withdrawal techniques and all sorts of stuff.

[1676] Beautiful.

[1677] It was a pleasure.

[1678] I really appreciate this, man. Let's do this again sometime.

[1679] How often are you in California?

[1680] I'll be back very soon because Liam Harrison's fighting Malay Pet and Andy Howson's fighting Romeo, and I'm coming over with them.

[1681] When is that?

[1682] July the 31st, the fight is, so I'll be over before.

[1683] Where's that taking place?

[1684] I'm not too sure.

[1685] It's in California?

[1686] It's somewhere in Calia.

[1687] Really?

[1688] Okay.

[1689] Maybe I'll go to the fights.

[1690] I'd like to see that.

[1691] Definitely.

[1692] That'd be great.

[1693] Beautiful.

[1694] Thank you, Vin.

[1695] We really appreciate it.

[1696] Thank you very much, you need.

[1697] Cheers.

[1698] All right, friends.

[1699] We'll be back next week.

[1700] Lots of great and entertaining guests.

[1701] Not as entertaining as this motherfucker, but we'll try.

[1702] See you soon.