233 - Free Range Children

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder, where we talk about true crime exactly how you want us to.

[2] That's right.

[3] And the exact cadence and speech pattern as if we're human and slow and fast.

[4] Slow, a lot of pauses like this, make it seem important.

[5] It's basically ASMR.

[6] Yeah, hey, hi.

[7] Hi.

[8] Are you trying to fall asleep right now?

[9] Do you like the sound of zippers?

[10] Do you like zippers?

[11] oh it's a zippers is that a thing I don't know the first then I just start talking so loud the first time I saw an ASMR video it was something like that it was a very specific sound where I was like this is for one person maybe four and it was just like you know it was like titled like plastic ski jacket zipper something like something someone is always loved but never even realized it was a thing they loved you know there's like I saw recently there's hair brushing videos which is the sound of hair being brushed.

[12] Oh, the audio of it.

[13] The audio for ASMR of hair being brushed.

[14] That's someone's thing.

[15] See, I might have the opposite of whatever the fetish is for hair brushing sounds because there's nothing that bothers me more.

[16] And this is very like when you're the first year living out of your parents' house, when you're like, I'm living with the girls and we're living it up.

[17] It was the best.

[18] And there's always some roommate that will get out of the shower with wet hair and then brush her hair violently, like, in front of the TV.

[19] Oh, yeah.

[20] That's always driven me. Those kind of girls are, like, just, like, pulling their own hair out.

[21] The tangle, just, like, ripping through their hair, the tangles.

[22] Yeah.

[23] Just doing it really fast.

[24] You could tell they had the kind of mom or sisters that was like, too bad.

[25] Yeah.

[26] You have to get your hair brushed.

[27] Oh, my mom used to make us cry by French braiding our hair.

[28] Yeah, because she pulled it so tight.

[29] Because it was so tight and she'd yank it, not on purpose, but it's like, it was maybe a little, maybe a little pass.

[30] Maybe Janet was getting back at her.

[31] It does feel so good, though.

[32] I can French braid hair.

[33] I know.

[34] I've been meaning to get you to French braid my hair.

[35] It's been like, I will absolutely do it.

[36] I don't know why it's never happened, like on tour or something.

[37] I guess because we don't roller skate that much in 1984.

[38] What the fuck?

[39] How weird would it be?

[40] You're like, we're going to.

[41] We're going to go down to the Applebee's two blocks down.

[42] Will you French braid my hair first?

[43] You know what I just realized?

[44] Sometimes when I can't sleep, if I need like a soothing thought, I'll think of myself French braiding hair.

[45] Like just a long fucking French braid.

[46] Yeah.

[47] That's my ASMR in my brain, French braiding.

[48] I love it.

[49] But it's the visual or the do you like the audio as well?

[50] The visual and then the feel of French braiding is like so soothing.

[51] Doesn't it?

[52] Yes.

[53] So, yeah.

[54] As we said, this is true.

[55] true crime so good we're here to tell you about things that sound ways that people have made sounds work for them whether it's this podcast uh the old can opener asmr can opener what do that's i love the sound of bumblebee tuna being open being opened by an electric can opener from 1970s chicken of the sea is kind of my thing i like the sound of my mom lighting a match and touching it to the end of a Benson and Hedges Lights 100 at the gas station with the windows rolled up in the car.

[56] Oh, God.

[57] Do you know what I did the other night?

[58] He had a smoke?

[59] I fucking smoked a cigarette for the first time in probably five years.

[60] Out of what, boredom?

[61] No, I just was like kind of going crazy.

[62] I was having, it just, I was having a lot of anxiety about what's happening indoors right now, which is nothing.

[63] and the thought of smoking a cigarette Like that thing of like it's escape You get to walk out of a fucking party or bar Or room or quarantine And fucking have a contemplative cigarette And I don't fucking I'm not all for it Smoking is super bad for you And it'll kill you and all this shit But I had a cigarette a Winston And it was fucking It was excellent I thought I'd get nauseous You know Did you find that pack of Winston's Under the floor mats of an old Nova That was parked in front of your house.

[64] No, but I did find a brat for sale.

[65] You know those four those Subaru Brat?

[66] A Subaru Brat.

[67] A Subaru Brat for sale.

[68] Like a 19 fucking 70 something.

[69] It's silver and I want it so bad.

[70] Holy shit.

[71] Okay.

[72] I have to tell my friends, my friend Sam Mowen.

[73] Did I tell you about this?

[74] My friend Sam Mowen was doing this thing on Twitter where he was posting pictures when he saw a Subaru Brat.

[75] And I loved it and it was like, and then I just started rip it.

[76] I just started doing it myself where I was like, oh wait.

[77] The reason you love this is because it's Sam's idea.

[78] You're like, this is the best idea I've ever fucking hand.

[79] This is the fucking, that happens all the time to me on Twitter where I love something and be like all about it.

[80] And then two months later, I'm like, this is my original idea that it's never.

[81] It's so embarrassing.

[82] You just have to assume that you never have ever once had an original idea for anything.

[83] We're ripping, we're ripping off terrible sitcoms we stared at as children.

[84] Yeah, this podcast is because we both were super into the last podcast on the left to give them credit.

[85] it's like we're we just cut up old scripts from last podcast on the left and put them in a fish bowl and just pull out lines so anyways that's marcus parks and i'm henry zabrowski no i want to be henry elvis is ben kisle go okay what do you have for me i have for you your birthday present that's a month late no there's are the best kind i did not expect it it's um it took a really long time in the mail and then i was like forget it.

[86] It's too late and it's like, I went past the like cute, funny quarantine window and into the rude window.

[87] And then I was like, but then I was like, well, what am I going to do?

[88] Save it for Christmas.

[89] God knows what could happen between then and now.

[90] So here we'll do a Zoom presentation of your birthday present.

[91] Okay.

[92] Should we just say what happened?

[93] This prop here.

[94] Yes, definitely say what happened.

[95] Everyone doesn't know, but we just had a fiasco happen where we were, can you feel it recording and it's been like 45 minutes of me trying to figure out why my fucking internet was down and then I just had to come to the office instead to use the internet here I haven't been out of the house in six fucking months so this is very odd I'm drinking the end of Paul holes is Glenn Leavitt because yes that was very stressful wait you haven't you truly have not gone anywhere um no we are not we don't go anywhere yes that's amazing you don't go anywhere you don't go any We don't even go.

[96] We get Instacart delivered.

[97] Yeah.

[98] Good.

[99] You're the safest.

[100] This feels very weird and I'm digging it.

[101] Trip out.

[102] Well, while you were gone, Stephen and I, we did a mini -sode within the maxi -sode that was just a Karen and Stephen chit -chat.

[103] Awesome.

[104] We're going to put that on the fan cult.

[105] It's the most boring conversation of us being like, anyway.

[106] I wonder where she is.

[107] Is she okay?

[108] But that basically, I was.

[109] in the middle of giving you a belated birthday present.

[110] You were.

[111] Such a bummer like paused right as you're reaching your hand in and I was like...

[112] And the funniest part was it paused with you and your expression was my internet's going out so you look like and I was like, look your birthday present and you're just like oh for so long.

[113] I thought you were to get vibing me out or I was like hey, fucking better late than never and then Stephen goes, I think she's frozen.

[114] Oh no, I love it.

[115] Oh, my God.

[116] Okay, so I'm going to open your present at you.

[117] I love this.

[118] So you can see this gift bag is definitely recycled.

[119] Gorgeous gift bag.

[120] It's real good.

[121] And then I actually took the time to put paper in it and stuff.

[122] I will drop this off at your house.

[123] Okay, Stephen, are you recording this?

[124] Can you video this?

[125] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[126] Are you ready for this fucking thing?

[127] Yeah.

[128] What is that?

[129] I can't see it.

[130] Hold it down close.

[131] Oh, my God.

[132] Is that a book about cats?

[133] It's a fucking tash in book.

[134] And this guy was this super famous cat photographer from 1942.

[135] Or maybe it's all the most favorite.

[136] Maybe it's not just one guy.

[137] It's all the best cat pictures.

[138] I am obsessed with it.

[139] Walter Chandoha is the name on it.

[140] This is everything I've ever wanted.

[141] Thank you so much.

[142] Really heavy because it's a tash and book.

[143] Yeah.

[144] You know, I like books that you can put out and make people think you're artsy and smart, like in your living room.

[145] So this is perfect.

[146] And Tashan is the best.

[147] Tashan is number one, especially if you're looking for a gift, this is so pluggy, but I swear it's just a recommendation and it's something I believe in.

[148] Go to the Tashan website.

[149] They're big, fancy coffee table books.

[150] And I swear to God, it's the best, it's the best present.

[151] No, you would never buy for yourself.

[152] And there's like every, there's like a whole book about like vintage boobs, like vintage points.

[153] and stuff.

[154] Thank you.

[155] I love it.

[156] Now look at this shit.

[157] Because of that gift bag, I now have gold sparkles all over the front of my shirt.

[158] Perfect.

[159] That's, we, we both win.

[160] Yeah, right?

[161] And then Stephen, we, in, in all of this, we discovered Stephen.

[162] Yeah, I also got you a belated birthday present, too.

[163] Oh, what is it?

[164] It's, should I open it for you?

[165] Yeah.

[166] Yeah.

[167] Okay, okay.

[168] I love this.

[169] Okay.

[170] Opening presents for other people.

[171] Because she wrapped it all but.

[172] Um, So this one is one that I picked out.

[173] Presents for Georgia.

[174] Let's do this every week.

[175] You guys have to get me something every week.

[176] What?

[177] I don't even switch it.

[178] What's that?

[179] It's a vintage cooking for two.

[180] I almost bought that exact book the other day.

[181] That's so good.

[182] It's just like the cooking, these cookbooks from the late 70s, 80s just have the most insane.

[183] It's like cheese ham and like.

[184] Yes.

[185] Pine up broccoli.

[186] It's like broccoli cheese with sliced deli ham wrapped around it with some kind of like a cherries as a garnish.

[187] Marshino cherries.

[188] You guys like know me. It's almost like we spent five years talking to each other about our most intimate bucket.

[189] There's more.

[190] And recording our conversations and editing those conversations.

[191] Oh, my God.

[192] Brenna found this.

[193] It's a gourmet magazine from your birth year and month.

[194] oh she's a good gift giver stephen brenna knows her shit and it's just like these old like again it's like there's no food on it it's just uh like a temple or something like that gourmet was like the vanity fair of food magazines if i may be so bold oh are you crying look at oh she's doing it oh my god these are the most thoughtful gifts thank you so much and honestly when it's always been like I love getting books for a gift It's like I feel like it's a very meaningful thing That people think you're smart and shit And thank you Mine's just pictures There's no words About cats, but it's cats But it's cats That's smart I mean mine are mostly pictures too So But it's fancy Happy birthday Happy belated Thank you COVID birthdays You get to stretch For as long as you want Yeah I'm so touched Thank you both so much Okay, I'm next week.

[195] So Karen's next week.

[196] What did Vince, Vince got you a cameo video.

[197] The cameo from Kevin Nash, the wrestler Kevin Nash.

[198] Because if you tell Vince that you have a favorite wrestler, then for the rest of your life, he's going to always like send you gifts or news updates or cameos for your birthday with that.

[199] And I didn't realize, like, first of all, it was fun to be able to pick a favorite wrestler.

[200] And the reason I pick Kevin Nash is because he's a very large man. He's gorgeous.

[201] He's a fascinating individual.

[202] But he also co -starred on an episode of Detroiters, on a couple episodes, I think, playing Tim Robinson's father.

[203] And he was so funny and so good.

[204] And that's, I learned about him backwards from the Detroiters first.

[205] And then Vince was like, that's Kevin Nash.

[206] And also Magic Mike, of course.

[207] Right.

[208] although he didn't I mean he was like an amazing body in that but he never I never felt like he got the character development he deserved no he's he's a body he's a body he's a wrestler he called me he called me sweetheart in my cameo he's very exciting okay so next week is Karen yeah and then Stephen you can go the following week what if and also what if this is the rule it's just it's called COVID random quarantine gifts to keep ourselves going but if like so we just gave you books accidentally but now this week you guys can't you can meet anything but books like you check off the column okay so money so that after we do this for like six months it's gonna have to start getting real obscure pack of cigarettes is for Karen next week we're basically stealing bridger wine oh yeah shit shit well this is a good segue this is a great segue and perfect segue exactly right corner see we were just talking about stealing and we did it right in front before our very eyes bridger don't be mad please we got bridger we got last podcast on the left oh my god that's fucking hilarious let's uh let's since this is a great segue let's go in to well i will i will start with bridger with i said no gifts because uh as you know last week um we posted a live show almost had to post one this week.

[209] Because of fucking Wi -Fi.

[210] Get out your blessings and we're back.

[211] But, so this week, Sashir Zamata is on, I said no gifts with Bridger Weinerger.

[212] And she's hilarious and brilliant.

[213] And you've seen her on lots of things and she is a podcast star herself.

[214] I don't want to upstage her, but last week, I think it is a notable to mention that Bridger as his guest had on one of the great actors of our time, Emma Thompson, live from the UK.

[215] Tell everyone how that happened.

[216] It's just bananas.

[217] It's not bananas.

[218] It's I said no gifts.

[219] It's I said no gifts.

[220] It's the fall line.

[221] Apparently, she listened to the episode of I said no gifts with Janelle James.

[222] And then Emma and her daughter sent email.

[223] to Bridger and Janelle saying like we're big fans call us if you don't believe us so he called Janelle Janelle did that's right Janelle's like I don't give a shit I'm gonna call and then they all found out it was real and not a prank and not you know some some weirdo trolling them and Emma Freakin Thompson is yeah was like I'll do your podcast it's amazing delightful I mean like what a joy what an exciting beautiful full thing when we heard about that.

[224] We were freaking out because we're such huge fans.

[225] Another, another podcast you can listen to that's on the Exactly Right Network.

[226] Stephen, why do you tell us who's on the podcast this week?

[227] Well, this week it's Matt Apodaca, who's an Earwolf producer and truly one of the sweetest sweethearts and talked about his two cats, Hurley and Sawyer, named after the Lost characters.

[228] It was just like a feel -good time, just talking about, yeah, just talking about, you know, cuddling cats and all that good stuff.

[229] So that's what the world needs right now.

[230] It's true.

[231] So check out the per cast as well.

[232] And there's a bunch of other, if you look up exactly right network on iTunes, it'll show you all the podcasts we have on our network.

[233] And we are so close to having more.

[234] We just, you know, had some contract sign.

[235] And I can't wait to announce those coming up soon.

[236] Yeah.

[237] But not right now.

[238] Sorry.

[239] Not now, but very soon.

[240] Yeah.

[241] And then I guess while we're on the, we're talking about it, we can talk about, well the fan call we'll put this put the unwrapping video up on the fan call maybe yeah nice okay and then we also are putting up every week we're now recording video of us of stephen pitching the titles for the episode that he has been writing down the whole episode and so we're posting that it's always really funny and then we also have new merch up on my favorite murder dot com in the store one of them we are doing we're so excited about this this beautiful design that murderino dana marseller she who's this incredible artist, aka she's at Mighty Pigeon underscore art on Instagram.

[242] It's an, we're all indoor cats now shirt.

[243] It's so beautiful.

[244] It's so beautiful.

[245] It's my three cats.

[246] So how can I not love it?

[247] Of course.

[248] But then, yeah, it's just the coolest design.

[249] So check that out.

[250] It's such a good design.

[251] We were so excited that she wanted to make shirts with us.

[252] So definitely support your fellow murderino artists.

[253] And I'm very thrilled.

[254] I think we may have hinted.

[255] at this but um one other new we've got a bunch of new merch up so if you feel like it and you're in that place um you can go look at it but we just do want to mention the puzzle um people are sending pictures of of it finished there are those who can and so they will and do and did um i started yelling at george about how it isn't that hard and that i i was lecturing her about how i Nora and I once did a puzzle that was just all the same gumballs over and over.

[256] It was like a huge thing.

[257] Oh, no. And then her internet went out because she was tired of me yelling at her.

[258] So, but I'm very excited because, you know, we have had the sweatpants in the store, fuck you, I'm married.

[259] Right.

[260] Well, now we're following that up with the lounge set.

[261] And it fucking says, fuck you, I'm divorced.

[262] Go get them.

[263] Are you divorced?

[264] Are you proud?

[265] Is your friend?

[266] getting divorced and you want to make her laugh does someone cry a lot and need some sweats to make her feel like she's not alone get those fuck you i'm divorced sweats they're they're available now are you not are you getting divorced and you can't wear i fuck you i'm married sweats anymore throw those fuckers out no give them to fucking give them to good well are you getting divorced and this is how you'd like to let your uh significant other know that it's over put on those fucking fuck you i'm divorced sweats and let them answer their own questions next ones we have to make our fuck you I'm married again sweatpants fuck you I'm remarried fuck you this is my second uh well I was going to say a husband but that leaves a bunch of people out okay uh what else do you have what do you want to talk about I'm tired of business and I want to talk about our conversational things let's do it I got I got some topics now that your birthday party's over it was just a couple a couple things we could I couldn't figure out, Steve and I were trying, this is what was happening while you were gone, running around, trying to get your internet.

[267] Just chilling, casually chilling.

[268] Stephen and I were trying to figure this out because I got a bunch of tweets and the first one I got was from Kristen and she wrote, Hi, Karen Colgeriff, a fellow murderino in the indie murderino group who doesn't have Twitter reminded me to remind you to put your trash out tonight.

[269] So, but I don't think we talked about it on my favorite murder.

[270] I think Chris Fairbanks and I talked about it on Do You Need a Ride that I keep forgetting to put my garbage out.

[271] Yeah.

[272] Because it's a boy's chore and I'm mad that I have to do it for myself.

[273] Absolutely.

[274] So I keep forgetting and then the garbage gets piled up and then the dogs go over and they're like, are you not home?

[275] We're going to go like shopping through the garbage.

[276] And it's a nightmare.

[277] And so now people have taken it upon themselves to remind me. I love that.

[278] To put my garbage out.

[279] It's this sweet.

[280] It made me laugh so hard.

[281] It was just like I. this is your life now this is your life now yes I'm having conversations I can't remember about bullshit that we're just trying to like fill the air and then people are like hey now we're in your brain the best is when we put up a live episode and people start like sending you a quote that you said and you're like don't have any fucking clue who said that what it was said about when it was said you're just right you're just fucking and it's oh that's funny Don't bring a fucking, don't bring a broom to a knife fight or something.

[282] That's funny, but I don't remember any of that.

[283] I know.

[284] Sometimes it triggers a memory, but for the most part, the idea that we did all those shows and we're on the road.

[285] It's just such, it feels like a lifetime ago.

[286] It was only a couple months ago.

[287] I've been really enjoying Karen Kilgare Gifts on Twitter.

[288] Oh, Schmoo, the hard work she does.

[289] lovely shmoo.

[290] She put up Karen Kilgare Gifts and it's very funny.

[291] Yeah.

[292] And there's also my favorite murderer out of context.

[293] My favorite murder quotes out of context, which I find it's almost I get why my mom is mad about this podcast when I read this quote.

[294] Yeah, we say some fucked up shit.

[295] Yeah, we really do.

[296] It's great.

[297] But who doesn't these days?

[298] I mean, we're not alone anymore.

[299] That's what's nice.

[300] Oh, speaking of, can I say real quick, Nick Terry put out a new MFM animated video about from the, what's her face?

[301] Oh, Typhoid Mary episode.

[302] That's always a fucking joy to watch.

[303] It's so lovely.

[304] Yeah.

[305] It's so funny you can, and I, of course, have watched those so many times.

[306] There's so many tiny jokes in it.

[307] Yeah.

[308] It's just so well done.

[309] It's so well done.

[310] So thank you, Nick Terry, for your constant.

[311] your constant work and also I was looking because I was watching a bunch of them on YouTube and then they had his merch underneath yeah Nick Terry makes merch um of scenes and characters from those animated shorts so if you love the animated shorts you can get like a t -shirt of a ballerina hippo yeah I didn't know that and I just started looking I was like oh my god I did see the one my the one Patty Riley wears that has all of the characters on like the lineup thing but he's got a bunch of really good shirt so so buy some support Nick Terry as well oh so this just made me laugh because we just recently rewatch the second season of Succession oh yeah which is just I gotta rewatch that it's so good it's so it it like a good Nick Terry animated short delivers it there's it's just so good and um all the Emmy nominations just came out.

[312] And so I knew that Nicholas Braun was nominated and I knew that Cousin Greg was nominated, which is the funniest.

[313] Yes.

[314] And he, I mean, who deserves that more than Cousin Greg?

[315] But I want like actual Cousin Greg to win that.

[316] You know, like, yeah.

[317] I'm sure the actor's fine and great and I'm happy for him.

[318] He's so good as Cousin Greg.

[319] It's so enjoyable.

[320] So So I started thinking because I was like, I started getting mad thinking, assuming for reasons I can't explain because it makes no sense that Karen Colkin wasn't nominated.

[321] I don't know.

[322] I never even looked.

[323] But I kind of had this thing of like, how dare they?

[324] He's so good that people aren't realizing that he's acting, which is very much how cousin Greg is too, where it's like, that's not the person that actor is, but it's so realistic and amazing.

[325] and it's such a, I'm sorry to say it, a tour to force performance.

[326] So I look up to be like, how many, like who did get nominated and how many, whatever.

[327] And this is the subject line or the headline that comes up.

[328] It's an entertainment weekly article that came out like two days ago that says, Kieran Culkin says he'll punch Nicholas Braun and the balls of succession co -star beats him for an Emmy.

[329] So he is nominated.

[330] So congratulations, Kieran Culkin.

[331] That's such something the character would say.

[332] That's something his character would say Maybe you shouldn't get it Because it's just who he is Oh my God I wonder it's the best I love it I love that guy Watchmen got nominated for a bunch of shit Which is awesome Make sure to watch that It's so good Oh speaking of glitter on your shirt And TV shows First of all So I've been watching I'll be gone in the dark Every week We watch it every Sunday night Before Perry Mason It is so fucking good It is heartbreaking and heart -wrenching and scary and like, I can tell Vince is a little freaked out watching it because it's it's so true to the book, which kept me up for fucking months, you know, especially before he was caught.

[333] First of all, I want to say that you look great in purple.

[334] Thank you.

[335] This week, you were in a really bright purple shirt blouse.

[336] Looks great on you.

[337] You should do more purple in your life.

[338] Yeah, I got my colors done in sixth grade.

[339] my mom, my Aunt Kathleen, Aunt Liza was there.

[340] Are you a fall?

[341] I'm a spring.

[342] I'm a spring winter because I dye my hair.

[343] So that actually that color of magenta, which I think I got at like the Gap Outlet or something.

[344] Oh, okay.

[345] I didn't even know it was yours because like it's so not your thing.

[346] Dude, my shirt and I did my hair and makeup, I was like, this is a disaster waiting to have.

[347] This is like every other fucking thing I was on where, thank you.

[348] People have been very nice.

[349] It's very nice.

[350] what's very sweet is several of my friends and and my friends that are listeners who I don't know have said when they see me in it and then they use that Leonardo DiCaprio GIF from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where he's drinking a beer and pointing at the TV.

[351] Have you ever seen that gift?

[352] No, that's cute.

[353] Where he's like, he's like, I love it.

[354] It's so good.

[355] And also Paul Holes, I have to say, it's like classic Paul Holes, why we all fell in love him way that like it's got this like he's so he is so effusive and so like you can just tell he's kind by listening to him talk and cares and it's the whole show is just fuck it's it's one of the best true crime shows I've ever watched for sure and it's heartbreaking I'm so glad I sent Pat and Oswald to like a fucking post show like sad Instagram message because it's just pulls at your heartstrings about Michelle too it's just really beautiful and so yeah such a tough tough thing yeah billy and I have been talking about where he's like have you watched it yet have you watched it because and then I'm just like I need a year I think I just need distance and like not yeah whatever but it's I know it's another one of those things where just like yeah I don't know if I want to sit down and like I know feel every fucking awful feeling but yeah I'm so so glad it turned out great and I'm not surprised.

[356] And Adrienne actually said the exact same thing.

[357] She said when Paul Holes talks about Michelle and gets choked up, it is one of the most like lovely and touching and like heart -wrenching things.

[358] She said the exact same thing.

[359] I love it.

[360] It's so, it's so nice and it's so cool that they got such an unbelievably talented director, like that whole project, you know.

[361] It's really, it's incredible.

[362] But I totally understand why you guys can't.

[363] watch it.

[364] I didn't know her personally, and I know you did.

[365] So that was, that just seems so hard.

[366] Yeah.

[367] Um, how about the Madeline McCann updates we're getting?

[368] What?

[369] I haven't gotten any.

[370] Oh, they what?

[371] You know about the guy in jail, right?

[372] And the German dude.

[373] Oh, was that the guy that they linked the cars?

[374] Like, yeah, but it's getting deeper.

[375] And I, I think they're about to find.

[376] They just found a, like a, not a crawl space, but like almost like a basement cell or seller space where he used to live that had been left over from some of other tenants and like, I think they're about to find proof that he took her.

[377] I think he's Yeah, because he's, that's the guy that lived on that property of that resort, right?

[378] I don't know if he lived there or near it, but he definitely it almost seems like he was in cahoots with someone who was letting, who worked there.

[379] And this is all fucking, what's it called?

[380] personal opinion.

[381] Conjecture personal opinion that let him know when people were not in their room so he could steal shit not like it wasn't for that reason to take a child but it seems like that was kind of his ammo is is breaking into people's you know holiday urs rooms and stealing stuff and so I totally think it's him and I think they're about to find something big shit I have to keep my yeah I should set my some Google alerts because I did not.

[382] I remember reading that article a little while ago, but that could have been 14 years ago.

[383] It could have been, I could have dreamed it.

[384] And it was from last night.

[385] I have no clue.

[386] What's happening anymore.

[387] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[388] I get that.

[389] I don't know.

[390] I get that.

[391] But, oh, I just wanted to talk for a second about Perry Mason this week.

[392] Yeah.

[393] How?

[394] Which, yeah.

[395] It's like I don't want it to end.

[396] And it's clearly like about to end.

[397] And everyone is talking on Twitter about somebody did a fan post kind of like a loving post about how amazing those title cards are like how beautifully designed the graphics are so beautiful and then so i was like yeah they they're they're firing on all eight over there who whatever that team was that they put it all together they're nailing it and then as that episode ended and i know spoilers but just in case if you're some kind of a you know reactive asshole.

[398] Spoiler alert, which is nothing.

[399] But the guy steps into the doorway.

[400] Remember at the very end when he was like trying to see if he could find the fourth, I think it's the fourth man, but either way, the guy steps into the doorway.

[401] And I don't.

[402] See, it's almost 10 p .m. at that point when we watch it.

[403] I've already watched I'll be gone in the dark.

[404] So I'm emotionally drained and a couple cans of wine in.

[405] Yes.

[406] No. True.

[407] And it's like that's, it's the Sunday night pile up.

[408] that used to happen with Game of Thrones.

[409] There was one night where like everything was on on Sunday night.

[410] And I can only handle like those two shows.

[411] I'll be gone in the dark and Perry Mason are so intense and dark that like I shouldn't be watching them side by side.

[412] Yeah.

[413] Definitely not at the same time.

[414] No. That's for sure.

[415] But what I was going to say is just that very last shot, the guy steps in the doorway and then you see he has a gun.

[416] It's not a spoiler, but like whatever if you haven't seen it.

[417] but as that happens this horn like this soundtrack kicks in and it's basically the outro music like a jazzy horn it's like yeah it's like a trumpet but it scared the fuck out of the way they did it was so perfect where i was like i think i'm having a panic attack and it's not i don't usually is this in my house there's something in my house right now am i being held it was so effective and then i listened to the whole outro song and then i was just like these guys are just It's, you can tell it's like all the honor students of show business got together and they're like, I'll direct it.

[418] You do the title cards.

[419] Nailing it.

[420] Nailing it.

[421] It's so hard.

[422] It's so good.

[423] It's such a good show.

[424] What was I going to say?

[425] What else?

[426] Anything else?

[427] We love it.

[428] Oh, the Illiness is out.

[429] And I love that too, but it's a different vibe.

[430] Oh, is it good?

[431] No, no. There's like four.

[432] There's four waiting for you.

[433] Okay, great.

[434] I think it's four.

[435] We're just plowing our way through Parks and Rec at this point.

[436] So that's good I need something like the alieness to come bring me down again Don't get too high up there Yeah With friend of the pod Nick Offerman Oh my kid He is a friend of the podcast I'm not being a weird phony right now It's actually real wait this is the Okay sorry can I just read this too really Yes please please this this tweet And I I think she was being funny and sincere at the same time.

[437] That's the best duo of personality traits.

[438] It was such a good job.

[439] She writes, okay, so this is from Andrea at, aka I -Fesh.

[440] I don't know.

[441] But she says, so she's talking about all beyond the dark, but she says, beautiful job done by friend of the pod, Karen Kilkerkerra.

[442] Way to use our own joke against us.

[443] I love it.

[444] I get to be a friend of my own past.

[445] Hell yeah, you do.

[446] That's how we grow.

[447] You're a friend to yourself first.

[448] That's right.

[449] Then you can be a friend to all the pods.

[450] You can't be a friend of other people's podcast if you're not a friend to your own podcast first.

[451] First be a friend to your own podcast.

[452] So she said the whole message, which is very lovely, is beautiful job by friend of the pod.

[453] Last night in HBO Ducks, I'll Be Gone in the Dark, paying tribute to the iconic and badass Michelle McNamara.

[454] That was the whole message.

[455] So it was so sincere that the friend of the pod part caught me out guard.

[456] Good joke, Andrea.

[457] Good joke.

[458] Love a good joke.

[459] Good one.

[460] Way to turn it on its head.

[461] Good work.

[462] Good work.

[463] That's how I talk now.

[464] What else?

[465] I just have one book recommendation.

[466] Oh, great.

[467] Because as you well know, George, I do.

[468] I felt maybe just a touch insane at the end of last week.

[469] I was feeling very...

[470] This is another tough business week.

[471] We had...

[472] Do you know that magazine?

[473] business week.

[474] It was like we were being, it was rolled up and we were being slapped with it.

[475] Right.

[476] No, there was just a bunch of stuff to do and think about and, and, um, I, I worry in these ways.

[477] I make up what I need to worry about so that I have it all in front of me in case one of the 37 things I've made up happen.

[478] You don't want to be caught off guard.

[479] I totally understand that.

[480] Future don't future worry.

[481] Is that what they call it?

[482] Yes.

[483] Yeah.

[484] It's like projection.

[485] worries but so that's where I was last week and I was really bumming me I was just like I didn't want to do anything and I was like please I can't do anything and then I remembered when I get into that place it's because I got so into listening to the Ram Dass podcast for a while and Ram Dass is all about that's nice that that suffering that you're doing is what you're supposed to be doing because this is all the work of waking up and so I read I went on because I was like I've listened to I think every episode of that podcast so I went to look at what books he has and there's a book called Becoming Nobody which is the essential Rom Doss collection so it's kind of like a starter for me definitely because I'm very new to that whole realm of work and awareness and stuff but I swear to God becoming nobody it's such a good audiobook it's him talking they're like the original lectures he gave and it's basically this thing of like we you're not your thoughts and your thoughts aren't real so the work is just when you're in that shit stop taking it so seriously figure out there are different ways and it's like a practice and you have to kind of be it's about awareness yeah but you can wake yourself up out of all those thoughts and and just step away from it and it's possible okay and it's really cool when you I think these days yeah I definitely am feeling those feelings where I just I don't even know what the fuck's going So I don't even know where to put my stress sometimes or how to manage it.

[486] Or to like even to excuse it away, it's impossible because it's true and real what you're feeling.

[487] It's not.

[488] Yes.

[489] It's not just you spinning out or having too much coffee.

[490] We're in a fucking global pandemic and on top of everything else going on.

[491] Right.

[492] And then you're the, the reactions that you're having in this scenario, like I keep judging myself like I'm overreacting.

[493] And it's like, no, no. you're in a quarantine in a pandemic.

[494] There's kind of no way to overreact.

[495] I was telling Stephen, I went out the other day just to leave the house.

[496] And as I drove my car, I started getting like motion sickness from moving fast in a car.

[497] Yes, me too.

[498] Like, what the fuck is that?

[499] We went for a drive and I started having a panic attack that we were going to get killed in a car accident and motion sickness because I have been indoors for fucking six months.

[500] Yeah.

[501] It's really weird.

[502] in a very weird place for sure it's very weird so if you're looking for you know if you have that feeling of like you're being hounded by your worries and your thoughts and these like there's a lot on your shoulders i highly recommend this book because it's about instead of analyzing all those ideas it's about practicing just stepping away and like being your own personal observer because like yes you're worried and that's real and the suffering of it is real but there's another part of you that isn't worried that's watching you worry that can see that.

[503] And that's what you start identifying with is that the ability to look at yourself doing it and go, I don't think I'm that worried.

[504] I think I'm just uncomfortable.

[505] The difference, this is sorry, one more, but my therapist just talked about this today.

[506] The difference between actual danger and discomfort, a lot of people don't know the difference at all.

[507] Because it's the same fight or flight mechanism that comes up inside of you.

[508] your body doesn't know whether or not you're actually in front of a bear right well you your eyes tell you you're not but your body is having this reaction and so you like you have to um you have to teach yourself and remind yourself that you're safe just uncomfortable because you can be uncomfortable it's not going to hurt you and the discomfort is what people so many people think they're never supposed to feel anything bad ever and so that when they do they flip out of like this is all going down i mean this is what i do i should i should be just be admitting it is that it's the thing of i'm not supposed to blank blank blank well one time you told me it was before a show that a live show which was so is so scary for me but you were like don't my therapist once told me that being nervous and being excited are the same feeling and so now it's kind of cool to think of when I'm nervous about something being like, maybe it's just excitement.

[509] And if you think about it in terms of that, it's fun instead of scary.

[510] Yes.

[511] Well, and that reminds me, you said the funniest thing.

[512] This was like two weeks ago when we were very stressed out.

[513] And you go, I don't know.

[514] I kind of like conflict.

[515] So I'm okay.

[516] And it made me laugh so hard.

[517] Whereas like, yeah, actually, this is all, it's all like, no one does, no one doesn't want to know what's going on.

[518] Right.

[519] No one wants that feeling of, like, huge question mark with no answers coming, that you're not alone in that stress.

[520] Like, so don't, don't beat yourself up for being upset that you're like, what the fuck?

[521] And everything on our phones is making us more scared.

[522] It is funny that we add on this thing of like, not only are you actually upset because the thing is going on, but then you're fucking on top of it, guilting yourself and feeling bad about yourself and feeling like a loser because you're upset about.

[523] about it, just deal with the upsetness.

[524] You don't have to also pile on the negativity, right?

[525] Yeah, because then once you actually, if you can sit there and breathe and go, I'm really upset, I need to actually like feel it, let it, let it expand, see how big it can get.

[526] It doesn't get that big.

[527] We're so afraid to actually feel things because we're like, I don't want to be uncomfortable.

[528] I don't want to be.

[529] I don't want to cry.

[530] I don't want to be sad, whatever.

[531] But then it's like, but if you actually let it happen, it happens for three minutes.

[532] max and then and then usually there's like a little bit of a lull and you can feel that it's like it's like a sign wave like anything else it comes and goes and it doesn't kill you and it does and you can actually build up a tolerance and then start noticing like this is this thing my brain does when I feel like I might be being betrayed right and suddenly it makes everybody everybody's betrayed me that's my trigger betrayal is a trigger of mine and so it I spiral yeah totally Guys, feeling feelings is a friend of the podcast.

[533] Hi.

[534] Welcome, friend of the pod, feeling feelings.

[535] Feeling feelings.

[536] Crying turns out as a friend of the podcast.

[537] I've been trying so hard not to let this friend in.

[538] And now it's in and it does feel good.

[539] And Stephen, who's first?

[540] Your first, Georgia.

[541] Yeah.

[542] Oh, fuck.

[543] You did Elsie Christian's from Amsterdam.

[544] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[545] Absolutely.

[546] And when you say vintage, you mean when you finish.

[547] physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[548] Exactly.

[549] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

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[560] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[561] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[562] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level, today that's shopify .com slash murder goodbye so this week i'm going to do what were you reading something yeah can you hear it shit no no reading oh yeah like you just said that so slowly and staring straight ahead where i'm like what's this going to be Karen so so i am doing the Zoot Suit riots.

[563] Oh, shit.

[564] Yes.

[565] I don't know how this has never crossed my mind to do it.

[566] Like, it's always just kind of been a afterthought.

[567] And then I start looking into it and it's bananas.

[568] Yes.

[569] And there's so much to know.

[570] It's our city here, Los Angeles, that we know and love.

[571] So this is when Los Angeles experienced one of the most historically significant episodes of racial violence in the 20th century known as the Zoot Suit Riot's.

[572] Yeah.

[573] So there's so much good information out there on the internet and podcasts and books.

[574] Some of them I got from the hundreds, an article by Brandon Diaz, Smithsonian .com, an article by Alice Gregory, L .A. Daily Mirror .com.

[575] They have a bunch of old articles that you can read up there.

[576] There's an article by actual friend of the podcast, Alina Shatkin, who's a friend of mine.

[577] She's a really great food writer, but she wrote an article on L .A .ist about it.

[578] Cool.

[579] Scholar, historian, Eduardo Obregan Pagan, who wrote Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon, the book about it.

[580] And then there's a podcast called Latino Rebels Radio, and they posted an episode called From Latino Media Collective, where they interviewed Professor Gerardo Lacone, and it's an incredible interview.

[581] MercuryNews .com, History Channel has a documentary, Thoughtco, article by Robert Longley, Curbed L .A. article by Elijah Chiland.

[582] I mean, there's just so much out there.

[583] So did you, now may I ask, please, did you watch the film Zoot Suit starring Edward James almost?

[584] I did.

[585] It's so good.

[586] It's so good.

[587] Yeah.

[588] I mentioned it at the end of that end of this.

[589] It's like, God, I love him.

[590] You did?

[591] I know.

[592] It came out of 81.

[593] 81.

[594] Yeah.

[595] I get, and all I remember is yeah but it was like if it was playing downtown we'd just go see it we saw everything yeah um and he i just remember edward james almost in those zootsuits or whatever and that leaned back thing so chill i think it just was the stylistic fascinating kind of thing that i'd never seen or heard of before it was like did they invent something new and it's like no no no no this is this is this is Latino history this is like this is origin shit this is and this is And I just had no fucking clue.

[596] And there's, okay.

[597] And it goes, oh, it goes so deep.

[598] And I'm obviously not going to do a great job in 10 pages of getting to everything.

[599] So please do read about it and look it up because it's, there's so many connotations that come along with this.

[600] Anyways.

[601] So let's first start with a little history.

[602] The Mexican Revolution, which lasted roughly from 1910 to 1920, caused many Mexican families to immigrate to Los Angeles.

[603] So much so that by.

[604] the 1930s, new immigration from Mexico, migration from other states, and the longtime presence of multi -generational residents dating back to the Rancheros had made Los Angeles home to the largest concentration of Mexicans and Mexican Americans living in the U .S. The working class communities, most of which were concentrated to the diverse east side of Los Angeles.

[605] Everyone here knows that that's the east side, you know, was historically Mexican and Mexican -American families, like Boyle Heights and Lincoln Heights were traditional conservative and self -contained.

[606] And actually, so my family immigrated here from Eastern Europe to Los Angeles in the 20s as well, or late teens, early 20s.

[607] And Boyle Heights was kind of the only place where anyone who wasn't white could live.

[608] So there was a big Jewish population there as well, and that's where my family's from.

[609] So from Boyle Heights?

[610] Uh -huh.

[611] Oh, nice.

[612] Those houses are rad.

[613] Amazing.

[614] Yeah.

[615] But it was like a lot of farmland.

[616] too.

[617] I have old photos of my grandma and like the farmland.

[618] It reminds me of something else and this could actually be in another Edward James almost film Stand and Deliver, one of the great, another great 80s movie that as a teen, I was like, I'm so inspired, maybe I'm going to take calculus.

[619] There's no fucking way.

[620] But, and I can't remember, it might be from that, it might just be other stuff I read, but it was some kind of thing where somebody yelling, like go back to your country to Mexican and Mexans being like, bitch, this is our, we were here long before you.

[621] Exactly.

[622] This is part of Mexico.

[623] Like, what are you talking about?

[624] You're in our country.

[625] That's part of this story.

[626] So the Mexican American communities in Los Angeles had faced decades of discrimination, you know, including not being allowed to patronize or even work in many of the businesses.

[627] So like even waiting tables at a restaurant they weren't allowed to do.

[628] They could be the bus boy at the most.

[629] and even be they were expected to step off the sidewalk when white pedestrians passed them so it was just incredible discrimination um by the 1940s l .A had a Mexican -American population of over 250 ,000 and many of those families now had teenagers that had grown up in Los Angeles you know so they this this is where they're from while their parents had been immigrants or you know had lived there for generations this is their hometown this is where they're from and so they felt like the city was theirs as well.

[630] And what do teenagers do?

[631] They fucking rebel.

[632] And these teenagers were no different.

[633] So known as Pachucos.

[634] So Pachucos are the youth of this counterculture and they're experiencing this huge cultural and generational gap between themselves and their parents.

[635] It kind of reminded me of like rubble without a cause the way they were like, we don't want the norms that you're used to.

[636] We need to break out of what's going on, you know, and pave our own way.

[637] Yeah.

[638] And they were, uh, they were fucking over discrimination that their parents and grandparents had experienced and they wanted to create their own identities.

[639] Enter the zoot suit.

[640] So the fashion trend, I didn't fucking know this at all, had first been popularized during the 1930s in Harlem's jazz dance hall scene and predominantly worn by black teenagers.

[641] So that's where it started.

[642] I didn't know that at all.

[643] With black teenagers, super, you know, the jazz scene.

[644] The extravagantly -styled two -piece suit, so just people who don't know it, typically included the bright color fabric, knee -length suit coats.

[645] So it almost looked like an overcoat, but it was a suit coat down to the knees.

[646] They had excessively wide shoulders.

[647] It was very flamboyant and extravagant.

[648] The flowing pants that ballooned out at the knee and tapered really tight at the ankle.

[649] I read a thing that sometimes they were so tight that you had to put lubricant on your feet to get it over your feet.

[650] it was just like it was just this like it was a it was purposely ostentatious yeah you know what I mean and part of the reason that it was so tight it was also like function because they were jitterbugging they were doing these amazing dances and so having flowing pants at the ankle would get in the way so that's pretty cool that's where that came from and these weren't suits you could buy at the store either you had to go to a specialty tailor or you could take a regular suit that was two sizes too large and have that tailored the right way.

[651] So what I didn't realize about this style of dress is that the ostentatiousness and the flamboyant of the suit itself was a way of refusing to be ignored and dismissed as a minority.

[652] Hell yes.

[653] Right?

[654] So and this is such a youth culture thing of fuck you.

[655] I'm not fitting in and I'm going to look, you know, loud and get attention.

[656] I'm not going to fade into the background.

[657] Right.

[658] I'm not going to step off the side.

[659] walk because you're walking by.

[660] I get to be like it's like I get to take up space and I get to be here as I am.

[661] Exactly.

[662] Exactly.

[663] So minorities and people of color have always been expected to blend in and kind of be behind the scenes.

[664] You know, like they were menial workers.

[665] They were making everything comfortable for white people.

[666] But the rebellious youth refused to fade into the background and that's what the zoot suit represented.

[667] Plus the amount of material and tailoring required to make them.

[668] made them a luxury item.

[669] So it was like a defiance against their association as a second -class citizen.

[670] You know, they'd save up all their money and they'd have these luxury tailor -made suits.

[671] They were essentially, I wrote, they were essentially bawling, shot calling.

[672] One could say.

[673] If you're having a hard time relating to what this means, that truly the definition of bawling and shot calling.

[674] Right.

[675] And so the zootsuit suit becomes a symbol of counterculture and empowers young black and Mexican youth to express their individualistic identity within their culture and society.

[676] Fucking, both Caesar Chavez and Malcolm X were Zoot Suit wearers.

[677] Nice.

[678] Mm -hmm.

[679] Now, the female members of this counterculture are called Pachukas, and they wear tight sweaters and short for the time, skirts that are like flared out.

[680] You can see them in the movie Zoot Suit.

[681] They have fishnets.

[682] They have high hair.

[683] dues and big earrings and heavy makeup.

[684] It was rumored that some of the Pachukas would hide knives in their, like, buffons and the big hair.

[685] I've heard that.

[686] So rough.

[687] Nives and razor blades sometimes.

[688] Yeah.

[689] I mean, love it.

[690] I hate violence.

[691] I'm against violence.

[692] That's badass.

[693] It really.

[694] Well, because if you need it.

[695] Right.

[696] If you need it, throw it up in that hair.

[697] That's right.

[698] Do it.

[699] Other Pachukas would actually wear Zoot suits themselves.

[700] And that was a way to rebel against gender norms, which is so ahead of its time and incredible.

[701] That's badass.

[702] I know.

[703] I know.

[704] So Catherine Ramirez, she wrote the book Woman in a Zoot Suit, wrote, quote, these youths refuse to accept the racialized norms of segregated America with their flashy ensembles, distinct slang, extra cash generated by a booming war economy, and rebellious attitude, Pachucos and Pachucas participated in a spectacular subculture and threaten the social order by visibly occupying spaces, public spaces.

[705] Hell yeah.

[706] So in Los Angeles, Pachucos adopt the Zoot suit in order to brand themselves as rebels.

[707] But white people see Zoot suits as unpatriotic and Zooters, as they're called, quickly become branded as a negative thing.

[708] So this is partly due to the fact.

[709] So it's early 1940s, we get into World War II, U .S. enters World War II.

[710] in 1941 and the rationing of resources and the commercial manufacture of civilian clothing becomes strictly regulated because both fabric and the time and energy is focused on the war effort.

[711] So Zooters become a public enemy because of the amount of fabric it took to make the Zoot suits.

[712] Because of racism.

[713] Because that's an excuse for you to be racist.

[714] Yep.

[715] So Bootleg Taylor's continue to make the Zooten.

[716] Zoot suits, which uses a lot of rationed fabrics.

[717] And so white people view the zoot suit itself is harmful to the war effort and the young people who wear them are seen as un -American and unpatriotic, which is just an excuse for the racism.

[718] It's always that.

[719] It's unpatriotic.

[720] You're against the military.

[721] Exactly.

[722] It's all this.

[723] It's, yeah.

[724] Right.

[725] Right.

[726] Yes, 100%.

[727] Especially because by World War II, migration had peaked.

[728] So there was a lot of tension going on in Los Angeles.

[729] And, And don't forget that this was also a time when Japanese Americans were forcibly sent to internment camps.

[730] Japanese Americans who lived and thrived in Los Angeles were forcibly removed from their homes and businesses and sent to internment camps for the duration of the war.

[731] So obviously, racism is rampant and blanket society.

[732] And that this is just, I think we've talked about this before, but when the Japanese were sent to those internment camps, all of the, they, many Japanese people lived in Southern California because they were here to grow the citrus groves which used to be everywhere down here just everywhere and like in Burbank every other street has like a lemon tree or an orange tree on it orange county is called orange county it's it was mile mile after mile and when they interned the Japanese they stole their land they stole their property and people like Bob Hope went in and bought up all of this stolen land and then it was just when those American citizens who happened to be Japanese got released from those internment camps, they just didn't have anything because it was, it's so ugly.

[733] That's, it's one of the most disgusting historical times in our, well, they all are.

[734] There's so many, there's so many to pick from.

[735] We'll talk about all of them on this podcast today.

[736] Okay, so throwing lighter fluid onto this fire is the fact that a naval school for the Naval Reserve Armory was built in Chavez Ravine.

[737] It's a primarily Hispanic neighborhood.

[738] It's named after Julian Chavez, a rancher who eventually served as assistant mayor, city councilman, and became one of L .A. County's first supervisors.

[739] So that area, you guys will know it's where Dodger Stadium is, which I'll get to later, but Dodger Stadium was built in Chavez Ravine.

[740] The area had been home, and it's just, it's kind of these beautiful rolling hills.

[741] It's this really lush, lovely place in Los Angeles.

[742] So it's right above Echo Park, if you've ever been here.

[743] And the area had been home to generations of Mexican -American families.

[744] And the city used imminent domain, that motherfucking bitch, to clear out some of those homes.

[745] And then sailors that had, so they put the sailors in this Mexican -American neighborhood of Chavez Ravine.

[746] And then sailors had to cut through those neighborhoods to get downtown.

[747] So they'd be going downtown to drink.

[748] they'd come back through those neighborhoods.

[749] So, of course, there's going to be tension.

[750] And there'd be cat calling.

[751] There'd be all kinds of, you know, tussles and that sort of thing happening.

[752] Stuff to start fights with.

[753] Exactly.

[754] I think those buildings are still there, too.

[755] If you're driving off the five to get into Dodger Stadium to get tested for COVID now is what it's for.

[756] Yeah.

[757] You'll see these old buildings.

[758] And I think that's where it's from.

[759] Wow.

[760] Thank you, Sean Penn, by the way.

[761] You know, Sean Penn's the reason all that COVID testing is set up at Dodgers stadium.

[762] You're kidding.

[763] I swear to God.

[764] I don't know that.

[765] I don't know if he's financing it, if he organized it or what, but that's his thing.

[766] And I know a couple people who have done it and they say, you pull up and the line looks insanely long.

[767] You're done like that.

[768] I've heard that too.

[769] That's great.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Yeah.

[772] Everyone, be careful.

[773] This is not a joke.

[774] Wear a mask.

[775] Okay.

[776] By the summer of 1943, tensions between the thousands of white U .S. servicemen station in and around Los Angeles and the Pachucos are running high.

[777] Because we also have ports here.

[778] There was stationed in San Diego all along the coast up through L .A. There's a lot of servicemen here.

[779] Right.

[780] So many of the L .A. area servicemen view the Zooters as draft Dodgers, despite the fact that nearly half a million Mexican Americans are serving in the military at the time.

[781] And a lot of the Zoot suited Pachucos are teenagers, so like 12 through 16, so they're actually too young to even be eligible.

[782] So it's false.

[783] Yeah.

[784] Okay.

[785] So before we get to the ZootRights, we have to go over the Sleepy Lagoon murder trial, which happens a year before the riots and is considered a precursor to them.

[786] So Sleepy Lagoon was a rural reservoir.

[787] And this is another thing is a lot of Los Angeles, which is now overdeveloped and crazy, was rule.

[788] So like even Chavez Ravine, was rural, rural, hate rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural.

[789] So it's a rural reservoir and the east side of Los Angeles and what is now commerce.

[790] And that's a, it's a popular swimming hole, hangout spot, lovers lane for Mexican Americans, partly because they're banned from segregated public pools, so that's where they swim.

[791] Uh -huh.

[792] In the early hours of the morning, On August 2nd, 1942, a brawl breaks out at a birthday party near that near Sleepy Lagoon.

[793] When police arrive, they find an unconscious and mortally injured 22 -year -old named Jose Diaz on a nearby dirt road.

[794] He died shortly after being taken to the hospital.

[795] His cause of death is inconclusive, although he has severe blunt force trauma to the back of his head.

[796] They think it's from being, you know, jumped or hit, or it could be from a car accident.

[797] They actually, he might have gotten thrown off a motorcycle.

[798] They don't know for sure.

[799] But authorities blame his death and the big fight that had happened at the party on the so -called, quote, Mexican youth gang problem in Los Angeles.

[800] So in the following days, and there's amazing pictures from this, and I'm sure we'll post one on Instagram in the episode post, the LAPD arrests 17 Mexican -American teens that are associated with the so -called 38th street.

[801] gang and the word gang is is really different back then you know it's it's not what you think of now so this these kids who lived around 38th street that hung out together are called a gang when really it's just teenagers hanging out together yeah there's no they're not getting jumped in there's not there's not like the you have to go now do violence or whatever it's more just like kids that are all from the same neighborhood i mean that's how my dad grew up in san francisco it's just like you're you kind of represented your neighborhood.

[802] Right.

[803] And then on the weekends, you'd get drunken street fight people.

[804] My dad used to love to say that.

[805] He goes, oh, if we couldn't find other people to fight, we just all fight ourselves because he had four brothers.

[806] So, yeah.

[807] Yeah, exactly.

[808] So 38th string gang, quote.

[809] And despite lack of sufficient evidence, the young men are collectively charged with the murder of Diaz.

[810] They're denied bail and they're held in prison.

[811] And they become known as the sleepy lagoon defendants.

[812] And they're paraded in front of the press.

[813] And part of the reason is, is because the LAPD, there's been a lot of false newspaper articles about this Mexican youth gang problem.

[814] And so LAPD is like, look what we're doing about it.

[815] And they parade them in front of the press to make it seem like they're actually taking care of it.

[816] But really, all it does is make people even more afraid.

[817] So by the end of the week, police have used the excuse of Diaz's death to further arrest hundreds of Mexican Americans.

[818] in nightly sweeps for offenses that are just trumped up, like even possessing a draft card with an incorrect address, you can get arrested for unlawful assemblage, like all of these, you know, they're just arresting people.

[819] Yeah.

[820] And they single out youths in zoot suits in particular.

[821] Cops line up outside of dance halls.

[822] And they have like pokers that they, with razor sharp blades that they use to rip the peg top trousers of the zoot suits of the boys.

[823] as they come out.

[824] So there's a lot of, there's a lot of, like, photos from back then of kids that have clearly been in fights and the trouser of their legs are ripped.

[825] So the media doesn't help matters and prints incredibly racist headlines that history has shown were not supported by either facts or statistics.

[826] And in fact, the government statistics from that time found no increase in youth crime or delinquency.

[827] So talking about it now, it's completely trumped up.

[828] And it's basically just how dare you wear these outfits and say that you belong, that it's your city?

[829] Stay in your fucking lane, essentially, is what they're saying.

[830] So in order to scare people, the press referred to the Zooters as a, quote, Mexican goon squad.

[831] And they called them delinquents and hoodlums.

[832] And they also distribute false stories of Mexican boys prowling in wolf packs armed with clubs and knives and tire irons.

[833] they say they're invading homes, peaceful homes.

[834] It's all nonsense.

[835] So after months of racist media coverage that goes nationwide, including a fucking Disney cartoon in which a Donald Duck beats up another duck dressed in a zoot suit for being unpatriotic, fucking Disney.

[836] The Sleepy Lagoon defendants go on trial in October of 1942.

[837] There's never any testimony that anyone saw one of the defendants strike the victim.

[838] Like, No one can put any of these defendants with or near the victim.

[839] And some of the defendants can't even be placed at the murder scene.

[840] And yet Judge Frick permits the chief of the Foreign Relations Bureau of the Los Angeles Sheriff's Office to testify as a quote expert witness.

[841] He says that Mexicans as a community, he testifies this in court, have a bloodthirst and a biological predisposition to crime and killing because of the culture of human.

[842] sacrifice practiced by their Aztec fucking ancestors.

[843] Jesus Christ.

[844] That's a stretch because the Aztecs haven't been around for a while.

[845] A and B, have you ever heard of Vikings?

[846] Have you ever heard of racial profiles?

[847] The Celts.

[848] Have you ever heard of every single human clan has always fuck off?

[849] Exactly.

[850] The trial ends on January 13th, 1443, when three of the 17 defendants are convicted of first -degree murder and sentenced to life in prison, nine others are convicted of second -degree murder and sentenced to five years to life and the other five defendants are convicted of assault.

[851] So following the Sleepy Lagoon case, there's a lot of hate towards the Mexican -American community and U .S. servicemen, most of whom, by the way, grew up in other states so they had had had very little contact with people of Mexican and Latinx descent.

[852] they're now streaming into Southern California to prepare for war and are getting into violent altercations with young Mexican -American Zooters and you also got to think they're fresh out of boot camp they're also fucking young men you know yeah and they have this they have what they think is this patriotism that allows them to fight for their country and they see these you know others as not American and it's just I mean it's a what's it called tinderbox you know yeah so but also but it is that thing of there there's people from small towns all over this country where they show up and instead of going i'm new to the big city right right they start looking at people who've who parents have lived there for generations and say hey get hey foreigner i mean like that's just that american ignorance that's so tragic.

[853] This entire country is made up of foreigners.

[854] Yeah.

[855] I hate to tell you.

[856] I hate to tell you.

[857] I love to tell me about it.

[858] I hate.

[859] I love it to tell you.

[860] Listen, New Zealand, can you get me and Karen and Stephen?

[861] Can we get in there, please?

[862] Okay.

[863] They're like hail now.

[864] Only a week prior to the outbreak of what would become the Zutsuit riots, a number of Mexican Americans dancing at the Aragon Ballroom in Santa Monica in Venice are attacked by a mob of American servicemen and bystanders after rumors spread that a sailor had been stabbed, which there's no police report to corroborate that.

[865] An LAPD officer later says that, quote, the only thing we could do to break it up was arrest the Mexican kids.

[866] That sounds like a setup.

[867] Yeah.

[868] That almost sounds like a burning car at 3 p .m. on Librean Fairfax, doesn't it?

[869] Or a guy with an umbrella breaking a fucking window.

[870] at a fucking, what is it?

[871] What was the place, an auto parts store?

[872] That was in Minneapolis, yeah.

[873] The big tall guy with the, that covered himself entirely and completely got caught because everyone's now onto that shit.

[874] So, modern times.

[875] Modern times.

[876] It's the worst.

[877] I want to make clear that these are normal teen, teenagers who are rebelling.

[878] So of course, they get into trouble.

[879] There's some escalated issues.

[880] There are some that are, you know, looking to fights there are you know it's it's the normal teenage thing that both you and i and everyone we know who's cool went through as teenagers so you know there were these there were cases of shit going down but it was normal teenage stuff and that's the same thing as like in these in the protest there will be the person here and there that's going to be like i'm going to loot that store yeah and then that is what's manipulated and turned into this is what these people are Yeah.

[881] And it's, yeah.

[882] Right.

[883] So I don't want to seem like I'm, I want to make clear that I understand that.

[884] And it's partly from the fact that there's, it's, there's a wartime effort now that's growing and includes women being able to work in these labor, in the labor force.

[885] So women and like mothers and grandmothers are now working in the labor force.

[886] So they're away from home.

[887] The fathers are either at war or they're working as well.

[888] The demands of the war effort made it.

[889] So both parents.

[890] were working and out of the house for the first time.

[891] And they're also working through the night.

[892] So kids are, you know, they have a freedom they didn't have before.

[893] And they're not being looked after the same way because of that.

[894] And they're, but then they're also being watched in a different way, probably than they had before.

[895] And police records at the time, though, show that there wasn't, there's no escalation from regular juvenile delinquency.

[896] So it's not, there is no proof that it was worse at the time.

[897] It was normal juvenile delinquency.

[898] Government statistics reported at the time found no increase in youth crime.

[899] And also, the other thing that scared people is that the police officers, a lot of them are away at war as well.

[900] So people are already primed and ready to be scared of, you know, this fictitious mob that's going to come after them because they're not protected by the police.

[901] So it's a crazy story in that so many little things had to add up to what happened.

[902] Right.

[903] And they fucking did.

[904] So all this tension is simmering, rumors are flying, and just the sight of a zootsuit at this point is enough to fucking piss people off until one night in early June, an altercation between a sailor and a Pachuco escalates into a brawl outside a bar in downtown L .A. And this sailor gets, maybe gets knocked unconscious, we don't really know.

[905] There's a rumor that a sailor gets stabbed that's never corroborated.

[906] And so the following day, the following night of June 3rd, around 50 sailors leave the armory flanked with makeship weapons and they want to get revenge for the fight from the night before.

[907] So at the Carmen Theater downtown in downtown L .A., they get the house lights turned on and like 50 sailors, they roam the aisles looking for Zooters.

[908] They find two boys.

[909] Their ages are 12 and 13.

[910] They yank them out of their seats.

[911] and it says ignoring the protests of the patrons.

[912] So, you know, the people there were not fucking cool with it.

[913] The sailors drag them on stage.

[914] They rip the zoot suits off these kids.

[915] And they beat the boys up and they set the zootsuits on fire.

[916] Jesus Christ.

[917] And this is the start of the zootsuit suit riots.

[918] And so this becomes a kind of a theme of humiliation and violence.

[919] The next night, over 200 sailors grab a fleet of 20 taxi cabs, which the taxi cabs waved the fare to transport them and decided to take the fight into the Mexican -American neighborhoods of East Los Angeles and Boyle Heights and the sailors cruise the neighborhoods.

[920] They storm into bars and cafes and theaters.

[921] There's nowhere that's safe.

[922] And, you know, violence continues on the night of June 4th and 5th.

[923] Confrontations between servicemen and Zooters occurring all over the city.

[924] And some military personnel start targeting anyone who looks to be of Mexican descent.

[925] Like, they don't even care about Zoot suits anymore.

[926] They're berserking.

[927] Yeah.

[928] On June 5th, a group of Mexican musicians from El Paso are assaulted as they exit the Aztec recording company, even though they're not wearing Zoot suits at all.

[929] The racist press encourages a serviceman.

[930] The Hearst's own Herald and Express publishes inflammatory stories, including one that warned of 500 Zooters planning to kill every cop they came across, you know.

[931] The Los Angeles time applauds rioters for teaching zoot suitors a lesson, but the media just happens to suppress any mention of the white mobs that are actually, you know, the fucking rioters.

[932] They're the rioters.

[933] And one Los Angeles paper prints a guide on how to de -Zoot a suit, a zoot suitor.

[934] So like, Jesus Christ.

[935] However, a reporter for the city's black weekly newspaper, the California Eagle, named Charlotte Spears Bass.

[936] she writes a piece blasting mainstream newspapers for race baiting and calls for black readers to stand with Latinos.

[937] And there is a camaraderie there with the zootsuits and these teenage rebellion.

[938] They understand that they're borrowing this culture, this jazz culture from another culture.

[939] And they all kind of stand together, which is incredible.

[940] And also another thing that could fucking scare racist is, you know, camaraderie, you know what I mean?

[941] Is, yes, is marginalized people laying down any kind of biases or banding together.

[942] And banding together.

[943] I mean, yeah.

[944] On the night of June 7th, a crowd of 5 ,000 civilians and gather downtown.

[945] So it's civilians, it's soldiers, Marines, sailors from other stations as far away as Las Vegas, they fucking get on board and come down to like fight this fight.

[946] A witness of the attacks, a journalist named Carrie McWilliams writes, quote, Marching through the streets of downtown Los Angeles, a mob of several thousand soldiers, sailors, and civilians proceeded to beat up every zoot suitor they could find.

[947] And then he says, streetcars were halted while Mexicans and some Filipinos and Negroes, he says, were jerked from their seats, pushed into the streets and beaten with a sadistic frenzy.

[948] Jesus.

[949] And there's photos of this.

[950] There's these two young boys sitting.

[951] One is clearly been beaten and unconscious.

[952] The other one's like hunching over him naked.

[953] And there's a crowd circling them.

[954] It's pure humiliation and violence.

[955] A man named Vincente Morales and his girlfriend were at a show at the Orthium Theater, which is a friend of the podcast.

[956] Front of the pod.

[957] Where sailors drag him out of the building, strip him of his clothing and beat him unconscious and when he comes to LAPD officers arrest him for disturbing the peace It's so oppressive It's so it's so upsetting and oppressive And if you think it's that much different from the way it is today You're reading the wrong fucking newspaper Yeah You know As writing spreads into predominantly black neighborhoods like Watts Latinos join with black residents To mount a resistance With hundreds gathering, there's a Coca -Cola plant on Central Avenue, I guess.

[958] Years later, participant Rudy L .A. Vos tells the L .A. Times reporter, quote, toward evening, we started hiding in alleys.

[959] Then we sent about 20 guys right out into the middle of the street as decoys.

[960] They started coming after the decoys.

[961] Then we came out.

[962] They were surprised.

[963] It was the first time anybody was organized to fight back.

[964] Nice.

[965] So they fucking joined forces.

[966] like the fucking X -Men.

[967] The police arrest dozens of young Mexican -Americans and one of them asks, when one of them asks, why am I being arrested?

[968] The response is that they get savagely fucking beat with a nightstick for asking that.

[969] When the boy falls to the sidewalk unconscious, he's kicked in the face by police.

[970] Please remember, these are 13, 14, 15 -year -old children.

[971] Junior high students.

[972] Yep.

[973] Getting the shit kicked out of them by fully grown.

[974] By adults who have been trained in this military combat exactly so at midnight on June 8th my birthday um hey happy happy birthday again happy birthday thank you the Navy and Marine Corps finally intervene and declare downtown so all the you know they they intervene um all this shit happens that they they're like trying to restore order so they say but the fucking the the riot last until June 10th essentially oh my god their official position is that them there are men were acting in self -defense.

[975] On June 9th, the LA City Council passes an emergency resolution that makes it illegal.

[976] Ready for this?

[977] Makes it illegal to wear a zoot suit on city streets.

[978] Not to beat the fucking shit out of someone for their outfit.

[979] And actually, what's really fucking interesting is that the war production board, which is a government agency that oversees industrial manufacturing, they put out all these guidelines.

[980] They make it required that manufacturers use 26 % less fabric when they're making suits, which effectively criminalizes the manufacturer of zoot suits, which is the first time any piece of clothing has ever been criminalized.

[981] Wow.

[982] So, you know, it keeps happening in other cities as well.

[983] There's no reported deaths, but more than 150 people are injured in the L .A. riots, and police end up arresting more than 600 Mexican Americans on charges ranging from rioting to vagrancy.

[984] only a few servicemen are arrested overall.

[985] In total, the riots last 10 days from June 3rd to June 10th.

[986] Shit.

[987] And so no one died?

[988] Wait, that's not 10 days.

[989] The riots lasted 10 days from June 3rd.

[990] Nope.

[991] June 13th?

[992] That's not 10 days.

[993] I'm going to say June 1st to June 10th.

[994] Or it lasted seven days.

[995] But it's early June is like the known, you know, they ended, who knows what the last day was, is what I'm trying to say.

[996] What did you say?

[997] What were you saying?

[998] That no one died, you said.

[999] There's no reported deaths.

[1000] Reported deaths.

[1001] Like officially.

[1002] Right.

[1003] So afterward in response to a formal protest from the Mexican embassy who were like, I'm sorry, what the fuck?

[1004] A special committee is appointed to determine the cause of the riots.

[1005] And the committee concludes that racism is the root cause of the violence and also places the blame on the press for associating Zooters with a support.

[1006] posed crime wave.

[1007] Good.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] But L .A. Mayor Fletcher Bauron is intent on preserving the city's public image and declares that Mexican juvenile delinquents and racist white southerners are the ones who cause the riots.

[1010] So, they're fault.

[1011] We didn't do anything wrong.

[1012] He claims that racial prejudice is not and would not become an issue in Los Angeles.

[1013] Oh, no. Guys, come on.

[1014] We got some news for you from the future.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] It's not a friend of your podcast.

[1017] Admit it now.

[1018] Admit it now.

[1019] The un -American Activities Committee attempts to prove that the Zoot Suit riots were sponsored by Nazi agencies attempting to spread their Nazi propaganda between the United States and Latin American countries.

[1020] But, of course, not surprising, nothing comes out of that.

[1021] Yeah, but let's bookmark that for another.

[1022] time because I feel like couldn't be more relevant today.

[1023] Right.

[1024] In the aftermath, okay, so that's the Zoot Suit Riot's.

[1025] In the aftermath, the Sleepy Lagoon trial, remember that fucking thing.

[1026] The community organizes the Sleepy Lagoon Defense Committee, SLDC, and by 1944, they raise enough money to bring the case to the Second District Court of Appeals, where in the judge, Clement Nye overturns the verdict citing insufficient evidence, the denial of the defendant's right to counsel, and the overt bias of Judge Frick in the courtroom.

[1027] Nice.

[1028] All 17 defendants are released in 1944 from prison with their criminal records expunged.

[1029] So that's post -Zoot Suit riots.

[1030] Officially, the death of Jose Diaz from the Sleepy Lagoon murder remains unsolved.

[1031] But before her death in 1991, a former Pachuca named Lorena and Sinus confides to her children that her brother Lewis, who's dead, was the one who beat and killed Jose Diaz that night, which we don't know if it's true or not, but that was her confession.

[1032] There's so much more, please look into the Chavez Ravine and see about imminent domain and what ended up happening that they fucking forcibly removed the remaining Mexican -American homeowners who'd lived there for generations.

[1033] They ripped them out of their homes.

[1034] They bulldoze them home.

[1035] They gave them fucking pennies on the dollar of what their homes were worth.

[1036] And they, because they were going to redevelop the land in a high -end homes, which didn't happen.

[1037] And they ended up, the city ends up fucking selling that very fucking crucial land at a huge profit is sold to the owner of the Brooklyn Dodgers, Walter O'Malley, who starts building the Dodger Stadium in 1959.

[1038] That is a fucking blight on our fucking city, Dodger Stadium.

[1039] and I really suggest people look into that.

[1040] I mean, it's a great fucking, I love, love the Dodgers, love the stadium, love going to it.

[1041] It is an ugly time and history of what happened there.

[1042] Horrifying.

[1043] And it also hasn't changed too much in that, and I won't get into it because I actually, I've only very recently been reading about it, but is this is like kind of the spine of gentrification in that way where people that are from an area, especially in Los Angeles, and the way people migrate to this town, and then the actual families and the people that have lived there for a long time are forced out, and then they try, and because then those rents go up, and you've got all the people that are like, I'm going to be on a pilot this year.

[1044] Well, it's urban sprawl.

[1045] And so when you put, when you put entire cultures in a certain neighborhood and segregate them to that neighborhood, then when you want that neighborhood back, it's not like, you know, the city is naturally growing.

[1046] You fucking.

[1047] steal that land back, even though you told them that's the only place they could live.

[1048] You build freeways through their fucking homes so that the houses are worthless or they're divided from, you know, quote, better parts of town.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] You know, the whole LA freeway system, there was a recent LA Times article about it, how fucking racist and how race played into us building, like, the freeways make no sense here.

[1051] You're on the 405 and you want to get to fucking Hollywood.

[1052] It's going to take you forever.

[1053] It's because of those, those native.

[1054] Because they were building them through, they certainly weren't building them through Hancock Park.

[1055] No, they were not.

[1056] No, they were building them through Englewood.

[1057] So it's ugly.

[1058] As for the Zoot Suit itself, although it did fall out of fashion eventually, the part it played in challenging the entrenched roles of race, gender, and class identities of mainstream America during World War II has not been forgotten.

[1059] In 1978, actor and playwright Luis Valdez wrote the play Zoot suit.

[1060] It's the first play on Broadway made by someone of Mexican descent.

[1061] I know, and that got turned into a movie 1981 starring Danielle Valdez, who's so cute and sweet, and Edward James almost.

[1062] And actually, in 2016, Los Angeles County Museum of Art searched out a Zoot Suit to display as part of their, like, they had a men's, like, history of men's fashion.

[1063] And it cost them nearly 80 grand to acquire a, like, legit old school suit suit.

[1064] Because they had been destroyed and kind of targeted that way, where it was so impossible to find them.

[1065] Probably.

[1066] Wow.

[1067] There's been a push from historians to change the name from Zoot Suit Riots, which fucking implies that it was the Zooters who were rioting to the Sailor riots, but that hasn't stuck yet.

[1068] And, yeah, that's the story of the Zoot Suit Riot and the Sleepy Lagoon.

[1069] Wow.

[1070] The book that you can read if you want to know more is Murder at the Sleepy Lagoon.

[1071] Zoot Suits, Race, and Riot in wartime, L .A. by Eduardo Obringon Pagan, P .A .N. P. is the last name.

[1072] Wow, that's amazing.

[1073] That's such a good history lesson and living in the city.

[1074] It's really embarrassing.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] That I don't know anything about it's, it's just that feeling every time.

[1077] It's the same feeling of, of watching that OJ special and learning all about the Watts riots.

[1078] We're just like, how come I, I, you know, we don't know these things.

[1079] They don't teach you in school because they don't, because it, because it makes us look bad.

[1080] Right.

[1081] And like, that's somehow not okay to be like, we.

[1082] did a really horrible thing and but we're learning from it you know yeah because i think a lot of people aren't there yet and a lot of people in charge aren't there yet and yeah or whatever great job thank you that was really thank you that was a really thank you to lily for all her research notes that was a really that was a that was an interesting one i i definitely spent a lot of time researching that and i could have spent a lot fucking more time like there's so many good articles from every different angle cool i definitely want to look up um did you say the getty is the is the museum that got Because they were doing the fashion.

[1083] Sorry.

[1084] No, no. In 2016, Los Angeles County Museum of Art, they had a thing called raining men, reigning, G -N -I -G -N -G, reigning men, fashion in men's wear from 17 -15 to 2015.

[1085] Oh, shit.

[1086] Sounds fucking cool.

[1087] Yeah.

[1088] I was going to say one thing really quickly.

[1089] I texted my grandma to confirm because my mom's son of my family has been here for generations, and my grandma's brother was actually a zoot suitor.

[1090] Really?

[1091] But he entered the army.

[1092] So I wonder if he, and now I want to, like, call my grandma and ask her.

[1093] Like, I wonder if maybe he avoided this because.

[1094] Yeah, and they were in L .A. in Orange County, right?

[1095] Yeah, yeah.

[1096] Well, my grandma specifically grew up here.

[1097] My mom grew up in Atwater Village.

[1098] So, like, we grew up, yeah.

[1099] So I really, now next time I see my grandma or I, like, I want to learn more of this because I want to know.

[1100] Stephen, do it.

[1101] Please ask your grandma if she has a picture.

[1102] Yes.

[1103] Oh, my gosh.

[1104] love to see an actual legit Morris family.

[1105] What would that be?

[1106] What's your mom's maiden name?

[1107] My mom's made name is Valdez.

[1108] Raymond Valdez was my grandfather.

[1109] And then my grandma, her maiden name was Flores.

[1110] So Sarah Flores.

[1111] Oh, my God.

[1112] If she has a story, please get it on video or record it.

[1113] That would be incredible.

[1114] I'm so bummed.

[1115] I can't ask my, my grandma was very old, but I'm so bummed.

[1116] I can't ask her if she remembers it, although I know she would have just said, yeah, it was scary.

[1117] Yeah, that's incredible, Stephen.

[1118] I got a tweet from a listener named Emma, well, her at her Twitter handle is Emma Malia.

[1119] Emma said, hey, Karen Colgariff, ever heard of the 1976 Chow Chila kidnapping?

[1120] It's bananas, and I feel like I should have heard about it before.

[1121] Emma, really good suggestion.

[1122] I thought I'd already done this.

[1123] I thought you did, is this, this isn't the chicken coop one.

[1124] No, no. That's the, um, that's the, um, that's the wine, what was it?

[1125] Wineville chicken Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right?

[1126] Wineville?

[1127] Yeah, sure.

[1128] Um, no, this is, okay, so I have a very distinct memory of this report coming, like my family.

[1129] So I, it was 1976, so I was six years old.

[1130] And we, my parents never caught on that maybe the six year old shouldn't watch the seven o 'clock news.

[1131] along with them.

[1132] So, and I paid a lot of attention to things.

[1133] So when this report came out the night that had happened, I heard it and then would not stop asking my mom about it.

[1134] And she was like, I don't know.

[1135] We'll find out.

[1136] It was like, I remember it so distinctly.

[1137] Yes, you were a murderer, a baby murderino.

[1138] I was a baby.

[1139] Well, and also it was that feeling of like, I'm sorry.

[1140] I just came off a nice run of Sesame Street.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] what are you talking about this mass kidnapping hold on a second and then like we're never going to hear about it again you're never right this should be the only thing we talk about right you will you will not sweep this under the rug patent gym because it's now on the table and you need to explain it to me and I do remember asking my mom like explain to me why yeah yeah and she was like I don't know I'm tired um so this is the chowchilla bus kidnapping of 1976 oh okay I I think I know.

[1143] Oh, it's so good.

[1144] It's so good.

[1145] Emma, good catch.

[1146] I swear to God, I was like, there's no way I haven't done this already.

[1147] Oh, my God.

[1148] California legendary.

[1149] And, okay, so there is a real.

[1150] You can go look on YouTube.

[1151] You can watch the news footage as this story plays out in the news.

[1152] Someone has compiled all of it.

[1153] Is this the buried one?

[1154] Yep.

[1155] This is horrific and insane.

[1156] and I'm so excited.

[1157] I'm so excited for this.

[1158] Me too.

[1159] Okay.

[1160] And just the majority of this information and like the shape of this story is from an episode of 48 hours live to tell where they interviewed now grown children who were on this bus.

[1161] Are they all just still screaming?

[1162] I mean, okay.

[1163] So no, no, it's kind of amazing.

[1164] Okay.

[1165] So aside from 48 hours live to tell, which did.

[1166] an amazing and incredibly thorough job and all of these people got to tell their own story.

[1167] Best way to, my favorite, favorite way to experience true crime.

[1168] Classic Karen Kilgara, yeah.

[1169] You tell me what happened to you.

[1170] That's all I care about.

[1171] But the other sources, CNN, CBS News, S .F. Gate, Wikipedia.

[1172] So here we go.

[1173] So this basically starts July 15th, 1976.

[1174] It's around 4 o 'clock in Chowchilla, California.

[1175] and the Dairyland Elementary School's bus driver, Ed Ray, is dropping kids off after their summer school field trip that day.

[1176] Is this Northern California, like, near you?

[1177] No, Chowchilla is about 50 miles north of Fresno.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] So centrally?

[1180] It's central, yes.

[1181] It's very central, but it's that part of California.

[1182] So it's below Modesto, it's above Fresno.

[1183] It's right there on the 99.

[1184] If you took a 99 -of -farm land and stuff.

[1185] It's all far.

[1186] I mean, it's the Dairyland Elementary School.

[1187] It's all cows.

[1188] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1189] And that's also, it really gets me because all of this footage from 1976, it looks like this things that are in my head as childhood memories because it all looks the same as where I grew up to, of just like rolling hills with oak trees and big cow pastures.

[1190] Lots of brown.

[1191] Lots of brown shades.

[1192] It's lots of brown.

[1193] And as the people in the 48 hours live to tell you and describe it, it's how chila was, it had less than 5 ,000 people living in it.

[1194] Oh, my God.

[1195] It was a tiny cow town, as one of the guys describes it.

[1196] People did not lock their doors at night.

[1197] They didn't know.

[1198] They couldn't even imagine why they would have to.

[1199] It was kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

[1200] So it's central, central California.

[1201] And people in central California, they have accents like they're from the South.

[1202] It's really funny.

[1203] It's like that part of, it's very agricultural and people, it's like they're there for generations with the same ranch that you know came from like the dust bowl so it just kind of stuck yeah i think so yeah i think that's what it is like that's what this is how my mom talked but there's like a lot of that kind of accent where you're just like we're in california this is amazing so it's my it's one of my favorite things because california is gigantic but there's definitely a lot of the like a south in um or Midwest in it so element yeah i love it okay yeah Okay.

[1204] So Ed Ray is the bus driver, right?

[1205] Now, these kids, their age range is from five years old to 14 years old.

[1206] This is summer school, right?

[1207] So they're just, it's like a group of kids that are just doing stuff while their parents are at work.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] And on this day, the field trip was to the town swimming pool that was at the Chow Chila Fairgrounds.

[1210] Take me there.

[1211] Take me there.

[1212] You can see it.

[1213] Everything is golden.

[1214] It all looks like, it's like everything's, it's, All this news footage looks like it's being shot at Golden Hour, but it's like, no, this is just what it looked like back then.

[1215] It was so weird.

[1216] There's one little girl who goes through this whole experience wearing her bathing suit.

[1217] So it's that kind of thing where, like, they left the pool and they got on the bus like wearing the, like, get out.

[1218] No, you have to get out or you're going to get in trouble, Jennifer.

[1219] And so, like, it's so trippy.

[1220] They ran on the bus.

[1221] It was a boiling hot day because it's Central California in July.

[1222] And the kids talk about how they remember driving the bus.

[1223] They loved Ed.

[1224] They all called him Edward.

[1225] He had been the bus driver in that town for 26 years, I believe.

[1226] Yes, 26 years.

[1227] So wait, I'll go back to this a little bit.

[1228] Ed is just beginning the route home.

[1229] So he's dropped off a couple kids just at the beginning of the drop -off route.

[1230] He approaches a T -stop intersection.

[1231] and there he sees a broken down white van that's blocking the intersection.

[1232] So right now at this point, there's 26 kids on the bus, 27 people total, including Ed.

[1233] So Ed Ray has like lived almost his entire life in Chowchilla.

[1234] He's been the school bus driver for the past 26 years.

[1235] He knows everyone in town as well as he knows these country roads that make up his daily route.

[1236] So when he sees this white van blocking the intersection, he doesn't think, twice about pulling right up and opening the bus door to see which of his neighbors might need help because that's the kind of town it was.

[1237] It's kind of out in the middle of nowhere.

[1238] So it's not like, it's like, oh, strangers, you know, that's not anyone's first thought.

[1239] Plus, it's like if you keep driving, then that person's fucked.

[1240] It's not like they have cell phones to call.

[1241] It's like you're going to be the only car for hours, maybe.

[1242] I'm telling you, this footage from 1976, you might as well have, it looks like it's the turn of the century.

[1243] it's so old looking and it's so funny to me because like it doesn't seem that long ago to me but when you see this footage it's like yeah it's it's um there was there was if you had a if your car broke down yeah in the middle of the afternoon on a July day in chow chila you would be boiled to death by the sun yeah okay so so ed pulls right up and opens those doors to see what's going on and who needs help yeah and as he does two men climb onto the bus where Panny hose pulled over their head, bank robber style, which is he's so scary if you were a little kid.

[1244] And one's holding a sawed -off shotgun at Ed and tells him to get into the back of the bus.

[1245] Then that masked man turns the gun onto the kids as the second man gets into the driver's seat and begins to drive.

[1246] A third man is following in the white van that they pretended was broken down.

[1247] So with Ed and all the kids on board, these three masked men have just, just hijacked a school bus full of children.

[1248] Fuck.

[1249] So, yeah.

[1250] So one of those kids is nine -year -old Jennifer Brown, who is in this episode of 48 hours, live to tell.

[1251] She's an amazing, it's one of those things where they keep showing pictures of her at nine years old because there's so many pictures of these kids.

[1252] And she looks, the face is exactly the same.

[1253] And she has this kind of like, so she's the one that says, When Ed walks through the back of the bus, he says to all the kids really harsh, he says, just be quiet, sit down, do what they say.

[1254] And she had never heard him talk to the kids like that before.

[1255] So she knew, she knew, that's how she knew something was really wrong.

[1256] So the hijackers take off down the country road.

[1257] They eventually drive down into a dry riverbed in the Berenda Slew, which is seven miles outside of town.

[1258] And basically they drive down into this area.

[1259] And there's, of course, you can see pictures.

[1260] The slew had all these trees and bamboo that were like double high a normal school bus.

[1261] What the hell is a slew?

[1262] As someone from suburbia.

[1263] It's slew is like a riverbed.

[1264] It's basically, and I believe I didn't look it up.

[1265] But I think it's like that when they make a riverbed cement.

[1266] Right.

[1267] So they make sure that like water can go, like runoff can go or whatever.

[1268] It's not just a river.

[1269] but you know what hey all you slew heads out there slew arenas i'd love to hear how wrong i am please educate me because i don't feel like it okay so so the weird thing is these because these bamboo trees are so high they drive this bus in and it's perfectly hidden if you can't see it at all so they parked the bus the third driver from the white van now backs a second van that's green up to the bus doors he opens the rear doors of the van and that reveals an interior of a van that's been reinforced with wood paneling and all the windows have been blacked out and there's no ventilation that's been added so they've customized the inside of this van so that no one can see in or out and basically that it's it's a little cell and they basically tell the kids to jump from the bus into the back of the van so no footprints go on the ground and they can't see that anyone has been there.

[1270] What the fuck?

[1271] Why?

[1272] You'll tell us.

[1273] Yes.

[1274] So, so at gunpoint, Ed and all the kids have to jump from the bus to the van.

[1275] They fill up one van, drive it away, pull the other one up, and the rest of the kids have to have to do the same thing in the second van.

[1276] I believe that Ed was in the second van and six -year -old Larry Park who he's six when this happens he's obviously an adult when he's telling his story he says that as he walked toward the man holding the shotgun the barrels started looking like they were getting so big that they were going to swallow him up he's six years old he's a baby he's a baby so so Jennifer isn't a nine -year -old Jennifer isn't in the first van she gets put into the second van and she gets separated from her 10 year old brother jeff and that's when she starts really getting scared she keeps telling her friends i i want i want jeff um none of the kids know what's going on like it couldn't be more uh frightening and or more like getting loaded from their bus into the back of a dark van and they're just in pitch black and they're jammed in there they're jammed in yeah so meanwhile um jennifer and jeff mom, Joan Brown, she comes home from work to what would normally be a house full of kids waiting for her to get home from work.

[1277] And instead, as she says it, quote, there's no peanut butter on the counter.

[1278] There's no chairs out there.

[1279] They just weren't there.

[1280] So because it's the 70s, they wait a little while to see.

[1281] And it is the thing where it seems so bizarre now.

[1282] But like, this was the era where your parents would be like, in the summertime, it'd be like, go outside until the street lights come on totally like it was all kids and then very self -regulating sometimes you just go to your friend's house for dinner and they wouldn't they'd be mad at you but you wouldn't yeah they wouldn't worry yeah right no cell phones no helicopter anything this was when it was like free range children um but uh after a couple hours parents start calling each other and realizing that almost none of the kids from summer school made it home that day only those kids got dropped off right at the beginning.

[1283] So the parents, so it takes about it almost two hours, the parents call the police.

[1284] But two hours in the 70s is a modern day almost immediately.

[1285] So stop judging.

[1286] Okay.

[1287] So police and parents go out together and they retrace the bus route, but there's no sign of any of the kids.

[1288] And it isn't until police start a search by error that they spot the bus in the slew hidden in the bamboo.

[1289] So Madeira County Sheriff, Ed Bates, and his deputies rushed to the scene, but the bus is abandoned.

[1290] There's no footprints on the ground.

[1291] They don't really know what's happened, but they are able to track the van's tire marks, and they make it clear that they make it clear what happened that someone pulled up those vans.

[1292] So now they know that basically all those kids that were on the bus have been loaded into another vehicle that they don't know what it is and have been transported somewhere.

[1293] So Sheriff Bates calls Governor Jerry Brown and asks for the help of the FBI immediately.

[1294] Thank God.

[1295] So 30 FBI agents are called in to assist the investigation.

[1296] Meanwhile, Ed and the kids are being driven into jam -packed vans.

[1297] The windows are blacked out.

[1298] There's no ventilation and they can't see where they're going.

[1299] it's a brutally hot July night at this point there's no food or water and they don't let anyone take bathroom breaks and they drive for almost 12 hours yeah so you can imagine there's kids that throw up from the motion sickness of not being able to see out and it's a bumpy it's bumpy country roads there's of course kids crying there's lots of crying and then other kids the older kids are trying to keep everybody like keep kids from crying so they start singing the hits of the day they all sing boogie nights together they sing love will keep us together which was never not on the radio back then 12 the fucking hours 12 hours of being in the back of a car I mean I was I drove 15 minutes over the weekend and I almost threw up that's like oh my god yeah and little kids that are scared and like trying to comfort each other at one point the older kids have everybody sing if you're happy and you know it clap your hands but they change the lyrics too if you're sad and you know it which i fucking love because they're not being creepy like nothing's happening it's like no no no we're all freaking out let's let's sing the song so that's our new quarantine song hey look if you're sad and you know it clap your hands you might as well that's totally i love that okay okay so So finally around 3 .30 in the morning, this van comes to a stop.

[1300] It's now Friday, July 16th, early in the morning.

[1301] One of the van's back doors opens and the masked men yank it out first and then shut the door.

[1302] And then the kids just sit there waiting minutes past.

[1303] They don't know what's going on.

[1304] Ed's gone.

[1305] And then, you know, and then the door opens again.

[1306] And one of the men reaches in and just grabs the nearest kid to the door.

[1307] And they do this.

[1308] This is how they unload both bands.

[1309] So there's little kids just sitting there waiting.

[1310] They don't know if people are getting taken out and killed.

[1311] They don't know anything.

[1312] They're just sitting there waiting to see what's going to happen.

[1313] The idea of it is horrifying.

[1314] And there's a really sad moment.

[1315] Okay, so the oldest boy is this 14 -year -old boy named Mike Marshall.

[1316] And he's the last kid in the van with a five -year -old girl.

[1317] and he doesn't want to send her out by herself and they're making them come out one by one.

[1318] So he has to literally like pry her hands off of his arm so that he can get out.

[1319] And he's, I mean, he talks about how horrifying a decision it was because he was like, I can't send her out there alone.

[1320] I have to go out before her.

[1321] But then I don't, then the five -year -old is left in the van by herself.

[1322] It's just to scare.

[1323] Like, you don't know which one's scarier yet because.

[1324] Right.

[1325] You have an experience.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] Oh, you're right.

[1328] So, okay.

[1329] So when they do lead the kids out, they realize they get walked from the van over to basically what looks like a ladder going into a hole in the ground.

[1330] There's, they're out in the middle of nowhere.

[1331] It's kind of sandy.

[1332] There's no, it's like pitch, you know, it's the middle of the night.

[1333] And Jennifer Brown says that when she came up on that ladder, she remembers thinking to herself.

[1334] oh, they're sending us to hell.

[1335] And so then they go down the ladder and realize they're in an underground bunker.

[1336] And all the kids and Ed have been loaded down there.

[1337] So every kid that gets down the ladder then realizes no one's been taken off and killed.

[1338] So they all are like happy and, you know, they're all like, it's reunited.

[1339] They're all together again.

[1340] The problem is, though, it's pitch black down there.

[1341] It's they can't see a thing.

[1342] but they like their eyes adjust they realize there's a table that's got some jugs of water on and some food and then there's these kind of like slapped together kind of toilets that are built in these boxes that are where the wheel wells are just like a hole in the ground or a hole that they like built just so people could have somewhere to go and but the good thing is they can hear fans spinning so that they know there's some sort of planned ventilation.

[1343] What the fuck?

[1344] Yeah.

[1345] So then this is like the prequel to Saw, it feels like.

[1346] It's horrifying.

[1347] I mean, imagine if Saw was 26 kids.

[1348] It's so, it's so awful.

[1349] So basically once all the kids, an ed are down inside, the kidnappers throw down a roll of toilet paper, pull up the ladder, and say, we'll be back for you.

[1350] they cover the opening with what everyone believes to be a manhole cover.

[1351] It's very, it's like, it sounds like one.

[1352] It's really heavy.

[1353] So, this is not how I thought it was.

[1354] I always pictured in my, you know, I hadn't read enough.

[1355] So I pictured them in the school bus being buried in the school bus.

[1356] This is, this is fucking crazy.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] No, they, yeah, they transferred them into another thing.

[1359] And this is the horrifying part.

[1360] So they're down there, the manhole cover closes.

[1361] They're standing in the dark.

[1362] And then they hear material being.

[1363] poured on top of whatever they're in.

[1364] So they realize they're being buried alive.

[1365] So back in Chautila, the parents are gathered at a command post that's set up at the fire station.

[1366] Of course, everyone, the whole town is worried sick.

[1367] Everyone knows about it.

[1368] Everyone's trying to figure out what's going on.

[1369] The police are trying to like formulate how anyone could kidnap 26 school children, um, let alone who would do it, let alone why they would do it.

[1370] Yeah.

[1371] They, they just are baffled by all of it.

[1372] And of course, this story makes the national news.

[1373] So that night, Walter Cronkites opening, um, like, oh, I sorry, I don't know if it was opening, but this is how I'm picturing it because this is how I remember it.

[1374] Yeah.

[1375] Walter Cronkite going, 26 school children and their bus driver have vanished.

[1376] Anguished parents, president Ford and hundreds of police are asking the question, where are the children?

[1377] I mean, okay, six -year -old Karen should not have fucking heard that, first of all.

[1378] I'm over here playing with matches.

[1379] What's this now?

[1380] Mommy?

[1381] Karen, go play with your matches.

[1382] Don't worry about it.

[1383] It's too late.

[1384] It's too late.

[1385] And then I just light one of her cigarettes.

[1386] I already saw it, mother.

[1387] It's ruined.

[1388] Oh, Jesus.

[1389] Okay, so it's declared to be one of the biggest kid now.

[1390] is in U .S. history, but no one's heard from the kidnappers or has any idea who they might be so they don't understand what the plan.

[1391] You'd hope it would be ransom so you could pay it and get your kid back, but that's not, that's terrifying.

[1392] Yeah, they're just, everyone's holding their breath waiting.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] But that's, but then calls pour in to the Chow Chila Police Department from all around the world, well -wishers, reporters.

[1395] I mean, this is like it's, it's blowing up.

[1396] So, 12 hours go by people wait they're just waiting for word in chowchilla well down in the hole as the kids be like come to call it things get go from bad to worse so they've run they've run out of food they're they have a little bit of water left and the the fans that they could hear that were providing ventilation have stopped now the this is kind of of fascinating and I love this kid I love this kid whoever he is because he doesn't get named but there's so they basically there's blocks that are on the ground that these four by four pillars um there's four by four pillars kind of stand around every um in each corner of this box that they're in and there it's basically holding up it looks like it's holding up the ceiling and and and kind of like they're bracing the sides of it and holding the ceiling up.

[1397] So one of the boys starts kicking at these blocks and just out of pure fury and fear and, you know, everything.

[1398] And with every block, every kick, he's moving the blocks.

[1399] And when the blocks move, the ceilings, that means the beam is moving and then the ceiling starts to cave in a little bit.

[1400] And the walls of the box that they're in start to bow inwards.

[1401] Oh dear.

[1402] And dust and dirt start streaming in.

[1403] So everyone's terrified that the ceiling's going to collapse.

[1404] But Ed and the older kids, they get together and they decide together, if we're going to die, we're going to die trying to get out of here.

[1405] So Ed and the oldest boy, Mike Marshall, they decide they're going to stack up these mattresses that have laid all around like the outside and all the kids have just been laying on them.

[1406] they stack them up so Mike can get climb up them and reach the hatch from the top prince and the pea style right they get up to that manhole cover but then when Mike gets up there he tries to push it and it's like it's so heavy he can barely he can barely push it he basically says and he talks about it he he's like got his you know he looks like a classic like rancher You know, he's got like his cowboy shirt on and his hat and his whole thing.

[1407] And he was like, I'm giving it everything I got.

[1408] And the kids are cheering me on.

[1409] You know, come on, Mike.

[1410] You can do it.

[1411] You can do it.

[1412] And all the sudden, they say, it moved.

[1413] It moved.

[1414] So this cover that he's pushing against, he gets, he's able to move it to the side a little bit so that there's a whole about half a foot wide.

[1415] and basically he has to climb up through that hole and then figure out whatever's up there like the guys could be standing there with the guns they don't know what's up there but they're like but we got we have to get out of here because the ventilation there's no water like we have to get out of here so Mike at 14 years old is like I'll go up there so he gets up out of the hole and realizes he's standing in a little box and the box has dirt in it and it has two truck batteries that were on the manhole cover.

[1416] And that was the reason it was so crazy heavy.

[1417] But once they started moving it, they knocked the batteries off and they knocked this dirt off.

[1418] So then he's in this box and he's like, so he just starts beating on the sides of the box and realize it's just this fabricated wooden box that like was covering over the hole.

[1419] He beats his way out of the box.

[1420] And...

[1421] Oh my God.

[1422] I'm fucking, okay, yeah.

[1423] I don't.

[1424] This is some fucking, I have a tiger, fucking parkour, extreme fucking sports.

[1425] With little kids, medium kids and big kids.

[1426] And then Ed himself, who's the beloved town school bus driver.

[1427] You know who I'm picturing Ed as is on Bob's Burgers, who's the guy who's...

[1428] Teddy.

[1429] Teddy.

[1430] Yes, that's exactly what he looks like.

[1431] Really?

[1432] I'm not joking.

[1433] Yes.

[1434] Totally looks like him without the beanie.

[1435] Okay.

[1436] So Mike is like punching.

[1437] these wooden like walls and then um he breaks through and larry park the six year old he describes seeing uh mike punch and this ray of sunshine come down into come down into from the box down into the hole and he says looking up the dirt was falling through the hole and the sunshine made it glimmer and it looked like shooting stars to him like all of a sudden they were like we're out.

[1438] So after, and this is, this is the craziest story I've ever fucking heard in my life.

[1439] It's, it just gets crazier too.

[1440] So Mike steps out, um, first outside the box to make sure the coast is clear.

[1441] He doesn't see anyone.

[1442] They see hills and trees and it all looks kind of the same.

[1443] Um, he and Ed help all the kids get out of the hole.

[1444] By the time they get out, it's eight o 'clock, on July 16th in the morning they've 8 p .m. sorry okay it's 8 p .m. on july 16th they've been in captivity for 16 hours and Jennifer when she finally gets outside the nine -year -old she looks around and looks back at where they were and says it looked just like a sand dune with like a little uh rectangle and a ladder yeah not the ladder um like a little rectangle but other than that there was nothing around she said if they were just if they just stayed in there no one would have ever known they were down there so they just start they hear in the distance engine sounds and whirring and metal and they don't know if that's where their captors are or what but they just start walking toward the sound everyone together and when they get up close to it they're they realize they're at a quarry and so it's all those like machines that you see around the quarry machines yeah The big cori, a quarry.

[1445] Cori -ir.

[1446] A coriizer.

[1447] So these guys in hard hats, imagine if you're this guy, that you've got the night shift at the quarry.

[1448] And you turn around and there's 26 kids that are like, that look like they've, I mean, it's, when you see these pictures, too, of these kids later on, it's unbelievable.

[1449] But they basically walked up to these guys that worked with the couriers, said, Ed.

[1450] the couriers and Ed said we're from Chowchilla and we're lost but of course they knew who they were because it was this the huge story so do we know where they are?

[1451] Are we allowed to talk about where they are at this point?

[1452] Yes.

[1453] They at this point even though they've been they drove for 12 hours they were in Livermore California Oh that's not far.

[1454] No it's actually only a couple hours up the 99 and over but they didn't go straight there.

[1455] They just drove around and around.

[1456] So they were trying to confuse the kids or let time pass or what?

[1457] Yes.

[1458] Yeah, they wanted to make sure no one knew where they were.

[1459] So they were basically 100 miles northwest of Chowchilla.

[1460] Livermore is the city, when I'm driving from L .A. to Petaluma, you go up the five, and then finally, when the five is up by the East Bay, you basically take a left off the five and now you're going into the East Bay.

[1461] and Livermore is that for it's pretty much the first big city that's off of that the 580 so it's kind of right there so they get um the police are called obviously and they get there they take pictures of all the kids and this is in that 48 hours they just start showing these kids that are like wide eyed and kind of dirty and you know they have stuff on their face and they're like look like they were all cried out um then they load them into a bus no so 70s listen to this shit listen to how 70s like 70s were pro trauma they were like we got to if we're here let's do it let's double down on this fucking let's double down oh my god they get these kids onto a bus and take them all to the Santa Rita rehab center which is a local jail but it had yes so Jennifer talks about driving onto the grounds and being like uh oh I think we're I think we're in trouble yeah but basically once they get there it's great because they don't, you know, they get inside.

[1462] They're in a classroom now.

[1463] So basically it was just the one spot that they had nearby that could hold all of them.

[1464] And like basically keep the situation contained so they could interview everybody and see what was going on.

[1465] So the kids are led into a classroom.

[1466] They're given soda and apples.

[1467] Oh, the healthiest snack after a fucking 28 hours of being.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] They are also given jumpsuits from the jail.

[1470] change into adult jumpsuits.

[1471] So all these kids, and they were, of course, really little.

[1472] So some of them had to roll the pant leg and the arms up.

[1473] And then some of them were just letting them flap around.

[1474] But when you see those pictures, these kids are so happy to be, you know, there's two female police officers that are right in there with them and holding the little ones.

[1475] And like they all are like, we're safe.

[1476] We're all safe and we're all together.

[1477] Oh, my God.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] Yeah.

[1480] So doctors arrive, quickly check everyone out, make sure that no one's hurt or, you know, dehydrated, whatever.

[1481] Aside from some bruises and some scrapes, luckily, everyone's okay physically.

[1482] Incredible that no one's hurt.

[1483] It's incredible.

[1484] It's an unbelievable.

[1485] And it's, I bet you they must have been dehydrated.

[1486] Oh, yeah.

[1487] To some degree, because also it's a summer day.

[1488] It's like.

[1489] And the crying.

[1490] That's.

[1491] Yes.

[1492] And so much crying.

[1493] So, but, you know, everyone's.

[1494] fine.

[1495] The police question Ed and the kids for four hours before finally, yes, please.

[1496] Before, seriously, before finally putting them on a greyhound and a two buses after this.

[1497] Two buses.

[1498] Stop it.

[1499] Stop it.

[1500] Stop it.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] They can't.

[1503] They didn't know.

[1504] It's like back when the doctors used to, first of all, doctors were barbers and barbers would just bleed you.

[1505] Like if you had a fever, they'd just like bleed them.

[1506] That's how they did stuff back then.

[1507] But these kids, the pictures of them on the Greyhound in there, they're still in their white jail suits.

[1508] It's the cutest.

[1509] They're all, now they're all stoked and they're fine.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] And at this point, it's four in the morning.

[1512] They get a police escort while they're on this Greyhound bus.

[1513] Kind of fun.

[1514] Back down to Chow Chila.

[1515] And they arrive at, sorry, they arrive at four in the morning.

[1516] So they probably left it two or whatever.

[1517] the bus pulls into chow chila and as the kids get off they're escorted by the police through a big group of news reporters um you see mike marshall the oldest he's so cute he's such a 70s like cute are we talking like matt he'd he'd be played by matt dillon a young matt dillon who'd be he would be yes he was definitely in the matt dillon spectrum of acute kind of italian probably maybe either hispanian or he would be yes he was definitely in the matt dillon spectrum of acute kind of italian probably maybe either his or Italian or Portuguese Yeah And he's And one of the reporters yells Hi Mike What was the pit like?

[1518] So like all these people That these kids have no idea Who any of them are They all know them by name That's how these people Have been following this story And reporting the story When Ed Ray steps off the bus He's met with a round of cheers and applause So the investigators Return to the Burial Site at the Rock Quartz and they dig up a moving truck that has been buried in this big open field at the rock quarry and they start looking for clues that's the weirdest part it's a moving truck that looks like it's from 1965 so it's got the big round wheel wells and the trailer is like kind of separated from the back um so they took uh the work that it took to bury a truck that big yeah it's really big um and plan everything out.

[1519] It must have taken weeks, if not months.

[1520] So investigators immediately surmise whoever is behind this must have had access to this quarry somehow.

[1521] So this is the part where it flips over because it's so sinister.

[1522] It's so scary.

[1523] Like you said, it's like, what is this saw?

[1524] Now we're going to get into the slapstick insanity aspect of this story because it boggles the mind.

[1525] okay so of course if they go well i wonder if it's someone that has connections to the quarry how about the quarry owner's son 24 year old fred new hall woods um who has a criminal record just two years before him and two of his buddies um brothers rich james and rich james and richard shonefeld they were all arrested together for grand theft auto dudes yeah fred and james worked together selling used cars and they um were arrested teaming up with Richard to steal one but they all got away with that without ever serving jail time they just received fines and probation because all three of them were from rich white families how quickly did it take them to investigators to zero in on them was it like immediately like two hours it's so obvious that yeah well because yeah they just stood back there going you the energy time whatever it took to bury a full size moving van moving trailer.

[1526] It's an inside job.

[1527] It's a quarry inside job.

[1528] Like, I feel like I'm not into like Grand Theft Auto, but I feel like if you get caught planning it instead of even doing it, you're not very good at it.

[1529] And you should quit it.

[1530] Yeah, for sure.

[1531] For sure.

[1532] Okay.

[1533] So authorities review the quarry security footage.

[1534] They find that the three had spent months leading up to the kidnapping digging a massive hole at the quarry.

[1535] and security guards do confirm the identity of Fred Woods so they they all said yeah that guy's been around here a ton so police they go to Fred's dad's estate these motherfuckers are rich like rich I mean he owns a quarry like that's fucking Fred Flintstone shit right they get to the dad's estate and in and they find the shotgun that was used in the kidnap they find papers detailing a kidnapping plan it literally they show they have the um the uh police footage in this and they show a piece of binder paper or no it's yeah it's the it's the assistant d a now who pulls this piece of binder paper out of an old box and it just has an all caps the word plan written at the top no joke i'm laughing because nobody died but yes the fucking fact that they're so stupid and did this so poorly so poorly and strangely okay and this is the reason my mom couldn't explain it to me yeah she was like because when you're on the other side of it it's like this is so sinister this is so horrible well okay so so it says plan at the top of the page the ransom note was never delivered it demanded five million dollars in exchange for the return of the 26 children on the bus.

[1536] But it was still, they still had the ransom note.

[1537] No one ever, no one ever received it.

[1538] I'll tell you.

[1539] Um, so arrest warrants are issued for Fred Woods, James Schoenfeld and Richard Schoenfeld.

[1540] And Richard turns himself in on July 23rd, eight days after the kidnapping, but James and Fred both take off in different directions.

[1541] James zigzags all over the western United States.

[1542] Fred tries to head north for Canada.

[1543] Two weeks after the, kidnapping, James is apprehended in Menlo Park on the morning of July 29th, and Fred is caught in Vancouver trying to go over the border, British Columbia, on the same night.

[1544] They don't want you, man. No, yeah, don't worry about it.

[1545] And they don't want us to this day.

[1546] To this day.

[1547] During their interrogations, the kidnappers reveal that they had been plotting this crime for a year and a half.

[1548] And what they were supposed to do was after they had kidnapped.

[1549] The bus full of kids, they were supposed to call the Chow Chila Police Department and demand their ransom and then say, we're sending you the note.

[1550] But the story had already broken worldwide, so they couldn't get through.

[1551] The phone lines were busy.

[1552] So they decided they were going to wait it out and they took a nap.

[1553] And when they woke up from their nap, they turned on the news and Ed and all the kids had escaped.

[1554] So listen, I'm going to make a fucking educated guess that meth was involved somewhere.

[1555] Or just really shitty weed, you know what I mean?

[1556] Where it's just kind of, they were just confused stems and seeds, man. Yeah, just not enjoying themselves and confused.

[1557] When asked for a motive, James Schoenfeld explains, despite being from wealthy families, all three men were in debt, of course.

[1558] He says, quote, we needed multiple victims to get multiple millions and we picked children because children are precious, the state would be willing to pay ransom for them, and they don't fight back.

[1559] So these guys bungled their plans so badly that they had no choice but to plead guilty to 27 counts of kidnapping for ransom and robbery in July of 1977.

[1560] And they're also charged with eight counts of bodily harm for the physical injuries that some of the kids sustained, but their lawyers advise them they're facing life in prison no matter what, but if they're found guilty on the charges of bodily harm, they'll have no chance for parole.

[1561] So the men plead not guilty to the bodily harm charges.

[1562] Many of these kids, including Jennifer and Michael, testify against these kidnappers in court.

[1563] And I tell you, there is video of this little girl, this nine -year -old Jennifer, who talks about, and they had all the kids make, retell the story on tape afterwards, like for themselves to basically like process the story.

[1564] So they have tape of these children at that age telling what happened that they play in this in this 48 hours.

[1565] It's really amazingly done.

[1566] So basically, they talk about the horrible conditions of the whole and the chronic nightmares and PTSD that they now suffer from.

[1567] Their testimonies lead to a guilty verdict on.

[1568] on the bodily harm charges, and on February 17th, 1978, Fred Wood and James and Richard Stonefeld are all sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[1569] So, five weeks after the kidnapping, Ed Ray and all 26 kids get taken on a trip to Disneyland.

[1570] Yeah, they do.

[1571] Right?

[1572] On August 22nd, this same year, basically, they basically waited about a month.

[1573] And then Chow Chowchilla celebrated their first annual Ed Ray and Children's Day, complete with a parade down the town's main street honoring the 27 brave survivors.

[1574] But of course, the kids are traumatized by this experience.

[1575] There's some suffer panic attacks.

[1576] Almost all of them have recurring nightmares that haunt them and their families.

[1577] So it's they, you know, it's really tough.

[1578] I mean, they went through something horrible and like to look at it from the other side to come up out of that pit and turn and be like, what the fuck is one thing, but to be down in it when you're six years old and you can't understand all you want is your mom and you're just stuck somewhere.

[1579] I mean, it's a nightmare.

[1580] So basically then in 1980, four years after the kidnapping, Fred James and Richard all appeal the bodily harm charges.

[1581] Their lawyers argue that the cuts and bruises on the children are not enough to warrant the official.

[1582] legal charge of bodily harm and they win this argument the bodily harm charges are reversed and now they're all eligible for parole two years later in 1982 parole hearings begin and all of the survivors get dragged back into court to further testify to try to keep their kidnappers behind bars um it all at all told the survivors of the chow chila bus kidnapping have had to endure 60 parole hearings so far.

[1583] 6 .0?

[1584] 6 .0.

[1585] That is additional trauma to the trauma they already fucking endured.

[1586] And that is not fair.

[1587] Every however many years, every however many years.

[1588] I fucking hate that.

[1589] It's horrible.

[1590] So in this period of time after that, you know, all this time is passing, Larry Park becomes, in his own words, an angry child.

[1591] Which is absolutely beyond justified.

[1592] His rage leads his parents to put him in a juvenile detention facility when he's 15 to try to rehabilitate his behavior.

[1593] It doesn't work.

[1594] By the time Larry's 21, he's using meth, crack, and other drugs recklessly.

[1595] And this is what happened to a lot of these kids.

[1596] Mike Marshall, the 14 -year -old hero, he said when he was a kid, he could see all the years ahead of him.

[1597] Then after the kidnapping, I could not see tomorrow.

[1598] So he begins drinking excessively when he's 18 years old.

[1599] And he does it until he's 48.

[1600] But then he finally finds the strength to treat his alcoholism.

[1601] But I mean, it's, you know, 30 years of being in the bottle because of this trauma and what it did to him.

[1602] Jennifer Brown is also haunted by nightmares and PTSD for years.

[1603] But today she's married and she says she's worked through her struggles with the help of her family and, quote, her church family.

[1604] So she has a lot of support.

[1605] And there's this really amazing moment where they have footage of a reporter.

[1606] It was when she went back, I believe, to testify, there was a reporter that asks her and she's just this little girl and she's kind of like rocking back and forth, you know, and she's like, like, one of her front teeth is gone and the reporter says, why do you think they did this?

[1607] And she goes, I don't know, they didn't get enough love.

[1608] And she says it like, super she has this big smile on her face also that she tells a really funny story of taking her gum out taking her gum out before she testifies because she didn't want to spit it at them when she went to tell this she didn't want to get so mad she'd spit it at him so she gave her dad her gum and then when they cut to her talking to that reporter she's chewing the gum again i want that one i want that one my favorite she's the cutest okay so uh in june of 2012 30 years after the kidnapping, Richard Schoenfeld is paroled, and his brother James follows three years later in 2015.

[1609] Many of the now -grown children and their families are angry that the bodily harm charges were reversed and that parole was a possibility for them.

[1610] But there's a notable exception.

[1611] After years of suffering and substance abuse, Larry Park says that he finally realized his resentment for the kidnappers was killing him.

[1612] So he decides to meet to he he decides to ask to meet with the Schoenfeld brothers who had recently gotten out of prison so that he can forgive them and they agree and yeah and he says about this experience quote it changed my life something washed over me and there was a piece like I'd never known I knew that day I would be okay and now he's Larry's sober and he runs his own handyman business and he sometimes volunteers as a pastor at his local church.

[1613] Fred Wood still remains behind bars.

[1614] From the beginning, police suspected that Fred was the mastermind behind the entire plot, a true sociopath who had roped the Schoenfeld brothers into his plan and who to this day shows no remorse for his actions.

[1615] His last parole hearing was October 2019, where he was denied parole for the 19th time.

[1616] And his next hearing is set for 2024.

[1617] After the kidnapping, Ed Ray goes back to driving a school bus and he does it for 12 more years until he retires in 1988.

[1618] And then on May 17th, 2012, Ed Ray passes away from natural causes at the age of 91.

[1619] And the town of Chow Chila still continues to celebrate Ed Ray and Children's Day every February 26th in honor of these guys.

[1620] In 2016, the survivors of the Chow Chow Chila bus kidnapping file a lawsuit against their three kidnappers demanding monetary compensation for the horrors they experienced and they wind up receiving a settlement.

[1621] The exact amount is never publicly disclosed, but one survivor says it was, quote, enough for some serious therapy, but not enough to buy a house.

[1622] And that is the horrifying story of the Chow Chila school bus kidnapping.

[1623] Ah, layers upon layers.

[1624] Isn't that nuts so?

[1625] God.

[1626] That goes so much deeper than I fucking knew.

[1627] Wow.

[1628] Great job.

[1629] That was great job.

[1630] Thank you.

[1631] Great suggestion.

[1632] It's just so funny.

[1633] I so, this story is such a weird, close to my heart, true crime, like, grew up with story.

[1634] Yeah.

[1635] It's so weird that I haven't done it.

[1636] No. Same was into right.

[1637] Wow.

[1638] That was incredible.

[1639] Good job.

[1640] I fucking.

[1641] Thank you.

[1642] Love that you told that story.

[1643] So before we go, we just want to talk to you about.

[1644] about something that's vitally important that you know about already.

[1645] And I'm sure you've been hearing all about it.

[1646] But we want to remind you, we're less than 100 days away from Election Day, which is November 3rd, 2020.

[1647] So between a global pandemic and rampant voter suppression efforts, it is critical to help every American register to vote, to be prepared to do so safely and to ensure that every vote counts, which includes encouraging as many Americans as possible to request to vote by mail.

[1648] So vote saveamerica .com is a one -stop shop for voter registration and engagements and it's being put on by our friends at Crooked Media and they've created this incredible hub that's compiled every freaking tool you need so you're able to request your vote by mail ballot early, which I've already done.

[1649] You can volunteer to call young voters in battleground states, which is so important and talk to them about voting by mail.

[1650] That's huge.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] You can donate to groups on the ground working to mobilize diverse voters, and you can volunteer as a poll worker if you're healthy and you're able.

[1653] Yes.

[1654] And you guys, we're all in this together to win in November.

[1655] We need to do everything we can.

[1656] Every single one of us voting counts, even though you think your state is this or that.

[1657] It doesn't matter.

[1658] We need to, we need to show.

[1659] our forces.

[1660] So we need to get involved and make sure that everyone we know is doing that as well.

[1661] So visit Votesaveamerica .com slash every last vote and get involved.

[1662] It's such a great resource.

[1663] Those guys in Crooked Media and Pod Save America, they're amazing political analysts, their brilliant minds, and they have put together this drive and this directive so that people feel like there's something they can do and they can start you know there's checklists there's all kinds of information go go to that website and see take some action see what you can do about helping this country get out of the very frightening position that we're in right now it's the darkest timeline and the only way we can get out of it is to vote so please make sure that everyone you know is doing this as well send emails send them a link to this let's fucking do this you guys let's do it and you know what else what stay sex And don't get murdered.

[1664] Goodbye.

[1665] Elvis, do you want a cookie?