Welcome to the Jungle

[0] Conan O 'Brien needs a fan.

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[2] Visit teamco .com slash call Conan.

[3] Okay, let's get started.

[4] Oh, why, hello.

[5] Hi there, Jackie.

[6] Welcome to Conan O 'Brien needs a fan.

[7] Hi, Jackie.

[8] Hello.

[9] Oh, there you are.

[10] We didn't see you there for a second.

[11] How are you, Jackie?

[12] I can't complain and yourself.

[13] We're doing just fine.

[14] Where are you talking to us from, Jackie?

[15] Where are you in the world?

[16] I live in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.

[17] It's about an hour outside of Toronto.

[18] Oh, terrific.

[19] North, is it north of Toronto?

[20] It's south.

[21] Just on the other side of the lake.

[22] Got it.

[23] All right.

[24] All right.

[25] Well, I'm glad that I got the exact coordinates of where you are.

[26] What's the elevation where you are above sea level?

[27] It's near Niagara Falls.

[28] It's close.

[29] It's about halfway between Toronto and Niagara Falls.

[30] Do you go to the falls often?

[31] Once or twice a year.

[32] Yeah.

[33] Once you've seen it, it's like, yep, that water is up there and then it's down here.

[34] I've seen one waterfall.

[35] You've seen them all.

[36] Seriously.

[37] I got it.

[38] Mr. Romance.

[39] Sorry.

[40] I saw the falls in like 87, and I'm like, yep, that water had a lot of potential entropy that then got expended.

[41] You haven't seen what they've done since.

[42] No, what do they do now?

[43] Well, at night they light them up all pretty.

[44] Oh, okay.

[45] Well, I better get my ass back up there.

[46] and see the waterfall with different lighting.

[47] So tell us, Jackie, tell us a little bit about yourself.

[48] And I'm sorry to put down your falls.

[49] I'm terrific.

[50] Tell us about yourself.

[51] What do you do, Jackie?

[52] What makes Jackie Jackie Jackie, and why Jackie?

[53] I am the...

[54] There are falls, too.

[55] There are two sides.

[56] I am the director of behavior at Toronto Humane Society.

[57] Oh.

[58] Yeah, it's been...

[59] Behavior for the people that work there or for the animals?

[60] For the animals.

[61] Behavior of the animals.

[62] Okay.

[63] Yeah.

[64] All right.

[65] Okay.

[66] Yep.

[67] I was going to say, sorry.

[68] I, yeah, I moved back here, started this job about five years ago.

[69] Before that, I was doing my master's in primatology before I moved into dogs and cats.

[70] And then I went off and did my PhD in Prince Edward Island, which I believe is where you said your like nanny is from or something like that.

[71] Yeah, this woman that looked after us.

[72] Eva Murphy, she was from Prince Edward Island.

[73] And, yeah, she had many old folk tales and folk remedies that she would apply to us.

[74] My brother Luke had a wart once.

[75] She cut a potato in half, rubbed one half on Luke's wart, and buried the other half in the backyard and said, that'll take care of your wart.

[76] Did it work?

[77] No, it did.

[78] My brother died a week later of potato poisoning.

[79] It's a very rare way to go.

[80] Sorry, Luke.

[81] I wish you would live.

[82] I wonder what you would have become.

[83] You'd probably be living in, I don't know, Holliston Mass, who knows?

[84] But that's not the point.

[85] My question is, you said that you studied primatology.

[86] Where were you studying primates?

[87] So I did my master's, like, the study part in England, but I did my research in Nigeria.

[88] Oh, wow.

[89] So you were in the jungle.

[90] Yeah, I mean, it was a forest, but yeah.

[91] She corrected you Wait a minute You got burned But wait a minute How is it It's a different ecosystem It's a jungle No No she took you down No I'm sorry Are you doubling down Yeah I am I'm sorry I think I know a little more About primatology Than Jackie who just got her Masters in primatology You got moated corroded your booty Exploded you lame stamed No I'm telling you And I'm boy I'm gonna write some stuff down On my arm next week and you'll be sorry.

[92] I think that, I'm sorry, I'm gonna just stick with my claim that monkeys, apes, chimpanzees live in the jungle.

[93] There.

[94] Okay, you're not buying it.

[95] Is it a rainforest at least?

[96] No, it was a pretty standard forest.

[97] Oh, for God to say.

[98] Oh, you're looking for something more, but it's just a forest.

[99] I keep striking out.

[100] I just don't think of monkeys walking around a regular forest.

[101] Ask her if it was a rainforest cafe.

[102] Hey, could it, okay, I get this.

[103] So what did you learn about these monkeys and how did you study them?

[104] Sure.

[105] These primates, if you will.

[106] Yeah, it was all of baboons and I studied the big bad daddy male ones.

[107] And so I followed them around.

[108] I was trying to study.

[109] I went there to study their aggression, actually.

[110] I was trying to learn about stress and how it related to aggression.

[111] And if you're more stress, if you're aggressive or less stressed, yada, yada.

[112] But I got there and they were basically like the hippies of the forest.

[113] There was no aggression the entire time I was saying.

[114] I didn't see a single fight, which is good, I guess, but I had to, like...

[115] Can I ask you a question?

[116] I want to see a fight.

[117] Were these baboons high?

[118] Were they getting high in the afternoon?

[119] Because that can really reduce aggression.

[120] 420.

[121] The theory that I came up with, really, is that the reason they worked aggressive is because they were in the forest.

[122] Most of the time, this particular species of baboons are in a more open area.

[123] And a lot of...

[124] Yeah, a jungle.

[125] Oh, my God.

[126] Oh, my God.

[127] It's not a jungle.

[128] I think they were, mostly they're in the jungle and then they found themselves in this weird forest in North Carolina and they were too confused to be stressful.

[129] So that's interesting.

[130] Why do you think they were less stressful, these baboons?

[131] Why weren't they fumping their chest and attacking each other?

[132] Well, because this particular species of monkey usually lives in a much more open area, like a savannah.

[133] And because they were, a lot of fights start when monkeys see each other doing things they don't want them to do and because they were in a forest they were able to conceal their activities so if a lower ranking male was to have sex with a female which normally the higher ranking males wouldn't abide by the higher ranking male just wouldn't see it and so there was less fights because they were able to conceal their activities That's cool!

[134] That's right if you can't get mad about something if you didn't see it.

[135] This is fascinating because I get into a lot of fights with people when someone younger a younger male is having sex with someone and I find out about it even though I'm happily married I become enraged and often attack them You do a lot of activity that's similar to the baboons It sounds like you're just very baboon You're just mad because I threw my feces at you yesterday Yeah and you tried to rip off my face and genitals the other day Yeah I got the genitals And you didn't seem to miss them You called me three days later and said Hey were you here Did you grab my genitals?

[136] When was the last time you saw him?

[137] I don't know.

[138] I don't really pay attention.

[139] I think it's been about three days, but who can tell?

[140] You know what?

[141] If you can give them back, great.

[142] No rush.

[143] Yeah.

[144] Take your time.

[145] I was going to mail.

[146] I was going to FedEx him and then I just did regular mail.

[147] Okay.

[148] Media mail.

[149] So, Jackie, I'm sorry.

[150] We went down a little bit of a rabbit hole there with torn genitals and me throwing feces at Sona.

[151] And I apologize because that's unprofessionally.

[152] Do you apologize to us or?

[153] No, no, no. No, I apologize.

[154] I'm just looking at you.

[155] right at the microphone and apologizing.

[156] Apology accepted.

[157] So you studied these.

[158] First of all, I love that you say you followed these baboons around.

[159] Do you have to, is it like a detective who's following a criminal where they're not supposed to know that you're following them?

[160] Is that an issue?

[161] Well, once they're used to you, it's really they don't even care about you at all.

[162] But my first day there, so they have, these particular two troops that I was following, they've had, they've been studied for generations.

[163] And so any person, they can identify different humans.

[164] And so any person that they recognize, they totally ignore.

[165] But my first day there, I was following around the troop, and we walked from a more, a less foresty area, into a foresty area in this path.

[166] And across the top of the path, there was a branch.

[167] And one of the little juveniles, he jumped up on top of that branch and looked down at me, square in the eyes, and just grabbed this branch and just broke it.

[168] Like, he was like, this is what I'm going to do to you.

[169] Wow.

[170] See this branch?

[171] This is your neck if you get out of line.

[172] Did that scare you?

[173] Did it be frightening?

[174] I'd run.

[175] No, he was so little.

[176] It was adorable.

[177] Oh, yeah.

[178] More pathetic.

[179] Yeah, it was an idol.

[180] Just like, yeah, ha ha, what are you going to do?

[181] Poor little papoon.

[182] And so do you name these primates?

[183] So I don't name them.

[184] We would have the, our assistants, our field guides were locals.

[185] They were people from the local village.

[186] And one of their jobs was to name them because they would They've been studying.

[187] They've been following them for generations.

[188] So every time a new baboon is born, they get to name them.

[189] And there was this baboon, this one time right before I got there, who unfortunately, her mother abandoned her.

[190] But another baboon had recently lost an infant and was still lactating.

[191] And so she kind of found her, screwed her up, and basically adopted her.

[192] That's nice.

[193] That's a nice story.

[194] And so the local field guides named her, and I forget the name it.

[195] It was some beautiful word in some Nigerian language.

[196] And we said, oh, that's wonderful.

[197] What does it translate to?

[198] And they said, garbage.

[199] Oh, that's funny.

[200] That's terrible.

[201] They were like, well, the other monkey discarded her like garbage.

[202] And so she's garbage.

[203] That's awful.

[204] Who had to, someone's going to have to break it to that monkey.

[205] That's terrible.

[206] So, wow.

[207] What's my name?

[208] Yeah, about that.

[209] Let's have a seat.

[210] Do you mind's just popping a squat?

[211] out here in the jungle.

[212] It's a forest.

[213] Okay, whatever.

[214] Anyway.

[215] So about my name again?

[216] Is it Willie or Charlie?

[217] Is it Steve?

[218] Yeah.

[219] Okay.

[220] It's garbage.

[221] Like the 90s band?

[222] No. Because you were discarded by your original mother who didn't love you.

[223] Oh.

[224] Sorry about that.

[225] You just broke a stick.

[226] Why are you threatening me when?

[227] I'm just telling you the bad news.

[228] Mommy.

[229] Oh, mommy.

[230] Oh, she broke your heart the way you broke.

[231] Mommy.

[232] Oh, you want me to be your mommy?

[233] Okay, I think I'm lactating.

[234] Come here, a little fella.

[235] Oh, God.

[236] Strawberry milk.

[237] That's right.

[238] When you have red hair and you're a man, strawberry milk comes out your nipple when you lactate.

[239] Mommy.

[240] God, what a stupid little play we just did for you.

[241] Stu, I hated being here for that.

[242] I think it was pretty tight.

[243] I really didn't enjoy that.

[244] Guess what?

[245] Guess what?

[246] I just wrote all of that down and I'm sending it to Pixar.

[247] Oh, yes.

[248] Garbage the baboon?

[249] Garbage the baboon is found by television host Conan O 'Brien.

[250] Lactating television host and strawberry and milk comes out.

[251] That's half the story right there.

[252] Jackie, we're cutting you in on this is the consultant.

[253] I watch that, so sign me up.

[254] I'm out.

[255] Yeah, so you didn't believe so you don't get to show.

[256] Yeah, you don't get nothing.

[257] Oh, that's too bad.

[258] I guess I'm not in the Pixar movie about this baboon.

[259] A man is lactating in it?

[260] That's what it was?

[261] Yeah.

[262] No, that's a bad movie.

[263] The movie's called God Doesn't Make Garbage.

[264] That's great.

[265] Yeah.

[266] I know what I'm doing.

[267] I know what I'm doing.

[268] Jackie, and so you've left this world of, well, sad, threatening baboons.

[269] Oh, I think they're living in the wrong climate.

[270] Oh, my God.

[271] But then you come back home and you are now in Hamilton, up in Canada.

[272] and you are working as a behavioral specialist with what kind of animals?

[273] So I'm the director of behavior at Toronto Humane Society.

[274] I'm an applied animal behaviorist.

[275] I work with all the animals at the shelter.

[276] I will say, though, my specialization is really in cats.

[277] That's what my Ph .D. is in.

[278] But I work with dogs, cats, turtles, rabbits, you name it.

[279] But turtles don't have a behavior.

[280] They're just like, oh, I'm a turtle.

[281] Well, sometimes there are things that we need to.

[282] I'm munching on something, and now I'm not, but now I am again.

[283] I don't understand that there's like there'd be a lot of moving parts for the turtle's psyche.

[284] So sometimes there are behaviors we need to encourage in our turtles, so if they don't spend a lot of time on, like we call it sunning, it's a fake light, but under their sunlamp, they can get what's called shell rot.

[285] So you sometimes have to encourage the turtles to come up and spend more time on their sunlight.

[286] So we do train the turtles as well.

[287] Is that like the equivalent of bed sores?

[288] I guess.

[289] So if they don't get enough proper light, the shell starts to rot.

[290] Wow.

[291] Okay.

[292] Well, I guess turtles have more going on than I thought.

[293] Oh, no. My house is starting to smell.

[294] It's crumbling around me. Coming to Pixar, 2024.

[295] Thank God you guys aren't in charge of Pixar.

[296] My turtle sounds a little like Mitch McConnell.

[297] He looks a lot like a turtle.

[298] Exactly.

[299] Hi, everybody.

[300] I'm Mitch McConnell.

[301] He's always forgetting his shell.

[302] But cats.

[303] Cats are your specialty, and you know a lot about cats.

[304] There are two cats that live in my house.

[305] They're not my cats, but they're cats that live in my home.

[306] What?

[307] Whose cats are at this?

[308] Well, I just don't think of them as mine.

[309] Okay.

[310] And also, they don't really seem that interested in me. One is Thor and the other is Cleo.

[311] And so maybe you have some tricks for me on how I can bond with them.

[312] What are things that cats like?

[313] I've tried stuff that I thought would work and it wouldn't.

[314] Like making them really big sandwiches.

[315] Have you tried lasagna?

[316] Yeah, I make some really hot lasagna, large portions.

[317] Worst for Garfield, right?

[318] No. Yeah.

[319] What do you suggest?

[320] What are some tricks for dealing with cats?

[321] Well, I mean, giving them lots of food that is appropriate for them is a good tip.

[322] Another thing we like to do is training, just teaching them to do, you know, stupid pet tricks.

[323] That really helps foster your bond.

[324] And then there's this thing that can work that's called, well, it's called the slow blink or the kitty kiss.

[325] So it's really, it's just.

[326] What's the slow blink?

[327] Tell us.

[328] I do this with my cat all that time.

[329] Do you?

[330] Oh, that's great.

[331] So you just kind of close your eyes, Jen.

[332] and open them.

[333] And so normally they'll do that to you as well.

[334] It's really just a sign that they trust you and they're willing to make themselves vulnerable around you.

[335] And so if they do it to you and you do it back to them, then it's kind of a language that the two of you can develop together and really sort of have this communal understanding of what you're saying.

[336] So the kitty kiss is just a...

[337] That's so weird because when I was single, I did this to women at bars.

[338] Oh, God.

[339] I was often escorted off the property.

[340] Yeah, yeah.

[341] It never worked, the slow blank.

[342] It's a different species altogether.

[343] Is that a different thing?

[344] I forgot it was for cats.

[345] I can't see you slow blinking at your cats.

[346] I feel like you just don't have the patience.

[347] I can't slow blinking.

[348] I can't slow blink.

[349] Everything I do is fast, quick, you know.

[350] I mean everything.

[351] Oh, God.

[352] No, I don't mean, what did you think I meant?

[353] Sex.

[354] Yeah, that's what I meant.

[355] Oh, yeah.

[356] That's what we're responding to.

[357] Oh, oh, yeah.

[358] It's disgusting.

[359] No, it's exactly.

[360] Very quick and unsatisfying for everyone.

[361] Oh.

[362] Yeah, over in seconds.

[363] Isn't that, I've made that clear, right?

[364] Yeah.

[365] Oh, yeah, lightning fast.

[366] Yeah, like it never even happened.

[367] No one feels a thing.

[368] Anyway, glad we cleared that up.

[369] No one feels not even you.

[370] Oh, no, I feel nothing.

[371] No one feels anything out of this?

[372] No one, no one.

[373] Why do it?

[374] It's one of those things you got to do.

[375] You know?

[376] It's like, why'd you climb Everest?

[377] Because it was there, you know?

[378] Hey, so I'm going to try slow blinking at these cats tonight, but I'm telling you, these cats are not into me. This is why.

[379] And correct me if I'm wrong, you slow blink and then you put your hand down, open up and let the cat come to you.

[380] And before long, you're bonded and you can do little head bumps.

[381] That's what I do is my cat.

[382] That's cute.

[383] You know, here's the thing.

[384] Thor, I get along with better.

[385] That's the dude.

[386] Cleo, very skittish, incredibly skittish cat.

[387] Cleo loves my daughter and just wants to hang out with her all the time.

[388] And now that she's away at college, she's around the house.

[389] And I'm trying really hard to bond with her.

[390] But she acts as if, if I murdered her in another life and wants nothing to do with me and I don't know how to break this, this terrible, terrible stalemate with Gleo.

[391] Well, what's your current strategy?

[392] Is it fast motions and blinking at it really quickly?

[393] Yeah, that's the problem is I move really quickly.

[394] And if I don't immediately get affection, I throw a sneaker at them.

[395] Oh.

[396] Maybe at least go for a slipper or something slightly softer.

[397] Just take a dollar back.

[398] I would never hurt an animal.

[399] Let's make that clear right now.

[400] so there's no phone calls.

[401] Do we have phone calls?

[402] They love it when I intentionally misunderstand that this is a podcast.

[403] If you're all listening right now, don't you call in.

[404] Well, Jackie, we learned a lot.

[405] We learned a lot, and I'm going to try all of this that you just said with Cleo tonight.

[406] And I'm also, I want to find out what happened to garbage.

[407] Maybe garbage needs to be rescued and brought to the big city.

[408] Right, good, the sequel to the Pixar movie where garbage goes to New York.

[409] Yeah, or I could put on, dressed up like the man in the uh in the yellow suit oh yeah the yellow hat yeah and i could go and i could get garbage and bring him to los angeles and make him part of the podcast sounds great no no what's matter okay no no it's a great idea i'm sorry is that what you guys wanted to hear that's an excellent idea because there's going to be a monkey here that's a threat we want to hear it's what we expect yeah so what no you're right that's a great idea you don't even know what climate garbage lives in you keep thinking it's a jungle but yeah this look like a jungle it'll be fun.

[410] You should never be around animals, it sounds like.

[411] Probably not.

[412] Yeah.

[413] There's a Christmas tree in the lobby.

[414] That's halfway to a forest right there.

[415] Oh, okay.

[416] Garbage is going to love it here.

[417] Yeah.

[418] Well, I look forward to Garbage takes Manhattan, the sequel.

[419] Very nice.

[420] Yes.

[421] Trust me, garbage took Manhattan a long time ago.

[422] Peace out, everybody.

[423] Tupac.

[424] Oh, come on.

[425] Hey, Jackie, really nice talking to you.

[426] Yeah, you as well.

[427] Yeah.

[428] And best of luck with everything and all your endeavors.

[429] And I hope our paths cross.

[430] one of these days.

[431] You never know.

[432] Yeah, me too.

[433] You didn't sound completely.

[434] You wanted that at all.

[435] Yeah, me too.

[436] Yeah.

[437] Okay.

[438] Now I'm coming up there just to irritate you.

[439] That's my plan all alone.

[440] I'll slow blink at you.

[441] You'll come around.

[442] Should check out the falls when you're up there.

[443] Uh, nah, forget it.

[444] All right.

[445] Thank you very much, Jackie.

[446] Nice talking to you.

[447] Thank you.

[448] Love to meet you all.

[449] Bye.

[450] Bye.

[451] Conan O 'Brien needs a fan with Conan O 'Brien.

[452] Brian, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley.

[453] Produced by me, Matt Gourley.

[454] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Salateroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Earwolf.

[455] Music by Jimmy Vivino.

[456] Supervising producer Aaron Blair, Associate Talent Producer Jennifer Samples, Associate producers Sean Doherty and Lisa Burm.

[457] Engineering by Eduardo Perez, please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Wherever.

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