Alex Cooper: The World's No.1 Female Podcaster Finally Opens Up! (Call Her Daddy)

[0] I don't think they knew the impact it was having, but it was destroying me inside.

[1] Oh my God.

[2] Sorry, I didn't expect for this to happen.

[3] The 8 -that -post of...

[4] Call her daddy!

[5] The most listened to female podcasts in the world.

[6] Hundreds of millions of downloads every month.

[7] Why you?

[8] I do everything for my audience.

[9] It's a very dumb industry to be a part of.

[10] Morally, I don't know if I should be saying this, but it just keeps getting bigger.

[11] the more that we keep saying wild.

[12] But exploiting my life for four years, there is a cost.

[13] The last year or so that I had a co -host, I was really struggling.

[14] Call her daddy was the biggest show ever.

[15] And everyone was like, these girls are the best of friends.

[16] And it was all crumbling behind the scenes.

[17] Why was I, like, getting people out of bed, managing, like, drugs and alcohol, trying to be the fixer?

[18] Someone's going to be the victim and someone's going to be the villain.

[19] And I was the villain.

[20] You can get down a really dark path if you do have a goal.

[21] It's not worth losing yourself to get the prize.

[22] If today were your last day and I slid you a phone and said you're going to have a conversation with your former partner, would you dial the number?

[23] I struggled so much wanting to tell the full story and wanting to tell the truth.

[24] How do I say this?

[25] What is the earliest thing, the earliest piece of context that I need to know about you to understand the person that sat in front of me today and all that should.

[26] she's accomplished.

[27] Oh, my gosh, Stephen.

[28] Oh, that's a hard question.

[29] I would say, I think that the experience I had growing up watching my father and what he did for a living, my dad is a sports television producer.

[30] And I remember when I was younger, my mom would take my sister, my brother and I, into Philadelphia and we would go to the Philadelphia Flyers games because that's what he would produce and we would stay in the stands watching hockey for like a period and then after the first period we would beg my mom like please can we go see dad can we go see dad and my mom would be like okay like let's go and she'd like you have to be quiet and so she would bring us down to the television studio and every single time it would like take my breath away watching my dad because I would walk in and he would be at the dead center at the front of the room with like 20 people behind him, 70 plus cameras in front of him.

[31] And he would be producing and directing a live sporting event.

[32] And that's like my earliest memory of realizing like, holy shit, I want to do this.

[33] Like, I want to do what my dad does.

[34] And I think it was always instilled in me also.

[35] Like, my dad loved what he did.

[36] So I know a lot of my friends.

[37] dad would be like got to go to work and like I get that that's like a lot of people in the world but I was so fortunate to watch my dad was the first one in the arena like he was the first one there he had his notes he was ready to go and then I would watch him like produce this live show of like roll camera A go to the announcers roll the graphic like hit the color and I just was so enthralled by that world that from a very young age I was able to quickly locate that's what I want to do That's what I want, not only just like the actual act of producing, but the way that my father engaged with his work, like it wasn't work.

[38] My dad never complained about going.

[39] He was always so enthusiastic.

[40] And so to see your parent and a figure above you that you respect so much be so in love with what they're doing, I always was like, I want my passion to become my purpose, to become what I do in life.

[41] And I do think that kind of then makes sense.

[42] as to like where I am now.

[43] Like I love what I do.

[44] And I really accredit a lot of that to like watching my father be so in love with his career and his job.

[45] What about your mother?

[46] My mother is a psychologist.

[47] So it's like the perfect storm.

[48] Growing up, I was like, mom, stop being so smart.

[49] Leave me alone.

[50] Why do all of the other kids moms would be like, oh yeah, go to the movies, sweetie.

[51] And my mom would be like, you're not going to movies.

[52] You're going to a party.

[53] Tell me what's happening.

[54] Where are you going?

[55] I'd be like, why do you know these things?

[56] So it was frustrating.

[57] I think when I was younger, my mom and I had a really interesting dynamic because I always like to push the boundaries.

[58] And I was the youngest.

[59] So I was kind of like the wild child and I loved that my mom was a psychologist but I hated it because she was like too insightful and too with it that I wish I could have gotten away with more but I do think as I started to come into my own having her have this background in psychology allowed me to really put more of an importance on connection connecting to your emotions um EQ versus IQ like my parents cared about our grades, but they also were more like, do you know how to interact in a room?

[60] Like, do you know how to read the room?

[61] Like, do you know when your friend is upset?

[62] Are you being, um, honest with yourself of how you're feeling?

[63] So like my household was always like, how are you feeling?

[64] What's going on?

[65] And I'm like, can we stop talking about our feelings for one fucking second?

[66] But it really was like the perfect storm of I now on my show and so interested in just talking and having engaging conversations because I think my mother, it was like a prerequisite in our house of like, No, no, you can't leave the house before I know, like, how are you doing?

[67] I'm like, I'm fine.

[68] But like, so I think I really admired her.

[69] But in my like, angsty teen years, I was like, fuck off.

[70] Like, stop asking me how I'm feeling.

[71] I want to go drink and have fun with my friends.

[72] But she's amazing.

[73] And she's been like probably the most instrumental person in my life in terms of like my personal development as a human being.

[74] When she asked you how you were feeling when you were a kid, were you always honest with her?

[75] No. Oh, God, no. I was really, I had a hard time with, like, wanting to make my parents really proud.

[76] I think they saw a lot in me. And I was very, like, doing a lot of things.

[77] I was really good at soccer.

[78] I was, like, good at making movies and films and all the things, but I, like, really struggled in school.

[79] And so I never wanted to tell my parents that because I felt like, I think I was, like, in embarrassed because like who I was at home was so not who I was at school.

[80] And so I was almost like, I'm still working through this in therapy, so I don't really know the full answer yet.

[81] But what I do know is I was like embarrassed to explain to my parents that I was like getting bullied at school or having a hard time.

[82] Because when I got home, I then was my actual real self where I was outgoing and goofy and happy.

[83] But then when I would go to school, I never wanted to tell them actually like that I was struggling, which is really strange.

[84] And I, I mean, I'm still working on trying to figure out why I didn't feel that way because my parents were so loving, would have gone to school and like talk to the teachers or the parents of the little shits that were bullying me. But I just had this like internal way of compartmentalizing school struggles and then like being at home and trying to engage in things that I loved and made me happy.

[85] and I just like to like separate the two.

[86] As you were saying that, I was trying to like figure out why that is sometimes why we, and my brain said like we almost don't want to taint our, our happy place or our safe place with the, with the unhappy place.

[87] It's like it would almost poison that place.

[88] It'd bring that energy into the, into that safe place.

[89] Yeah.

[90] I think that's a good point.

[91] Like I really struggled with people being so mean.

[92] Strictly, it was just all about my appearance.

[93] Like I was a very awkward kid.

[94] I think I had a hard time also coming out and talking about it on Caller Daddy because I feel like the persona that I am putting out into the world is very like blonde bombshells.

[95] She's got her life together and people are like, you got bullied.

[96] And so that dichotomy I think is like hard for people to understand.

[97] But like I still feel like the girl that was bullied in middle school, elementary school.

[98] So I think, yeah, I think there was like a pride thing of like they can do that to me. school but when I get home and I'm going to go in the basement and I'm going to make my films like they can't touch that like that's for me and that's what honestly like saved my life to be honest like creating content was like the one thing that kept me going and like happy and I was able to find my purpose because school was like just so awful for me when you say saved my life do you mean that yeah I actually found like a journal I'm not crying but my I just will not stop watering or maybe I am um I found a journal of mine.

[99] It was so fucking sad to read.

[100] I was really going through a hard time in school.

[101] I think when you go through bullying, you feel so fucking isolated.

[102] And unfortunately, or I hope, like, I actually don't think the kids that were bullying me and most of them were boys.

[103] I don't think they knew the impact it was having.

[104] Like it was like a casual mean comment.

[105] at recess, but it was destroying me inside.

[106] And so I found a journal that broke my heart because it was basically me saying like, oh, this is if I was like, if I killed myself, maybe then they would realize like how fucked up all the comments that they were saying to me. Oh my God.

[107] Sorry, I didn't expect for this to happen.

[108] I just like, I think I realized like, I'm like, fuck, like they would then realize like the impact that their comments had on me. And I really don't think that I'd like I'm saying like I don't think those kids actually knew like damn like and so I think almost the way of thinking about killing myself was like then they would realize the impact.

[109] And so I had a lot of dark thoughts that like I'm like I feel really bad for myself in that moment because I think a lot of times people are like I wouldn't take certain things back because like it made me who I am i would take that back i think what what i felt in those moments i would absolutely take back because it just like i don't i think i could still be where i am and not have gone through that type of pain have you had to have a conversation with that that girl the younger version of alex in therapy and stuff too yeah um it's been weird because our job is so weird where like i remember do we have a tissue no you're fine i'm like what you're fine i'm like what I didn't expect to cry this soon.

[110] I wasn't even expecting cry.

[111] I think why I'm so emotional too is like I'm kind of like currently working through this in therapy.

[112] And I think our job is very strange where I remember when I took the show on my own and I was doing like solo episodes.

[113] And I kept realizing I had like these people pleasing tendencies.

[114] And I wanted to share it on my show.

[115] But I'm like, I have to give context to the daddy gang, my fans, like why I have these tendencies.

[116] And so I remember telling my fans in the world that I was bullied before I even told my therapist.

[117] And I do sometimes think there's like something beautiful about that of like I knew by me saying that I was going to immediately connect with so many of my fans and like we were going to be able to have an even deeper connection.

[118] But I haven't really worked through all of it.

[119] So, like, I think sometimes when you bring up things you went through and you're not fully healed or whatever, like, I'm still kind of in the middle of processing all of it.

[120] But I have started to think about that younger self, but I think it's still so raw of like, even unpacking, like, how it's affected me in adulthood that I'm having a hard time, like, going through all the layers of it still.

[121] have you seen sort of imprints that remain on you as an adult i think about my own experience being i mean talked about this a lot on this show so people know but being the only like black kid in an all white school being the poorest family in the area and that constant feeling of like ongoing shame like yeah i think back and i've realized in my adult life like i always would say how i am so comfortable being alone i love my alone time but i think that comes from the initial inception was like such pain and hurt and isolation.

[122] When I was young, I would go into my room and I would cry, but I would make sure my parents couldn't hear me crying again because like I wanted to be like the cool soccer player, creative girl when I'm home and I didn't want them to know what I was going through.

[123] So I would be crying or writing in a journal.

[124] And I realized like I got so I went through like hating.

[125] every single thing about myself externally, like I would look up remedies of like how to get rid of my cystic acne.

[126] Like I would literally envision taking like a razor and like taking it off my skin.

[127] Like I thought of so many things.

[128] And I just like was constantly trying to change myself because I was getting bullied for like the way that I looked.

[129] And I think it's really detrimental when you're at an age where like all you care about is peer approval.

[130] All you care about is people liking you.

[131] And so I think the part of me that like, yes, hated myself, I did get really comfortable being alone because those were the moments where I allowed myself to have all of the thoughts, like bottling up and not telling anyone that I was going through this.

[132] I remember a friend of mine that I've been friends with since like fourth grade.

[133] She was like, Alex, I can't believe you never told me because I was going through something really.

[134] similar.

[135] She has red hair and freckles and she was like, I got so bullied.

[136] And we were in the same school and we were best friends and we didn't even know we were both going through it.

[137] And I can't even imagine how much easier my life would have been if I at least like grabbed onto her and we had each other.

[138] But I think bullying is very hard to explain unless you've gone through it where like you're so alone.

[139] You hate yourself.

[140] You almost like, yeah, you hate the bullies, but you almost like some you just internalize it so you hate yourself you don't even hate them as much as you hate yourself you want to change yourself you want to be able to fit in you want to hide you and so you do certain things where like even my my mannerisms or my posture was so like defeated and awkward um and now i look back and it's like my adult life i have i am working on working through extreme people pleasing tendencies because i just wanted people to like me when i was younger.

[141] And so even sometimes I see things on the internet where I'm like, oh, it's being like too annoying or extra.

[142] But it's like I feel like I just want people to like me. And sometimes that's all I'm thinking about that I can imagine that comes off in a way that's maybe not as likable.

[143] But it's like I really am just trying to connect.

[144] And then I think the the loner thing.

[145] like I've had so many I had a lot of issues in romantic relationships where I would be like in love with someone but they would be like what I didn't even know you liked me and so I think I would avoid getting hurt and rejected because I was rejected in those years of feeling the ultimate rejection of again when you're like all you care about is peer dynamics friends like who who's in who's top five, like, boys were, like, repulsed by me. And so I was like, I hated myself.

[146] I didn't think I was good enough.

[147] And so when I would get someone, I tried to, like, have a defense almost against, like, they can't hurt me because, like, I'm already setting myself up to know it's going to be over before they can, like, reject me. You know, when I sit here with people and I learn about their early years, I think there's always, and probably I had this assumption before I started doing this, that when we reached a moment of success, or whatever when our circumstances change the trauma goes out the door with it and i i've come to learn from doing this that it stays and i've actually i feel like i've never met a person who has managed to take their early upbringing the early adverse upbringing to zero i've never met the person yeah i'm guessing you've made progress on these things yeah i have i think like when i was so young being in school, I started to really struggle with my grades because it would be like I'm getting bullied in school and I would run home and I started to compartmentalize so well that creating content to me was like literally what kept me going, right?

[148] And so I would go into my basement and my dad gave me this like big, huge, clunky Sony camera.

[149] And I was obsessed with creating these characters, creating these storylines.

[150] Like, I laugh now because I didn't even put it together, but I would force all my friends, all my soccer friends to participate and, like, making videos with me. And we remade the devil wears Prada.

[151] And you would think immediately of what I'm telling you, like, who would I play?

[152] I would play Ann Hathaway's character.

[153] I played Merrill Streep.

[154] I was freaking Miranda Priestley.

[155] I'm like, I'm the farthest thing from that at that point in my life.

[156] But it was like, I loved playing characters that like it like ignited this confidence in me where I could feel for a minute like I I am this boss like I am this like strong confident woman um and so creating content for me was like this outlet that allowed me to almost like become the thing that internally I always did have this confidence and I knew I had this fun personality and this spark but it was so tainted by the minute I walked out the doors of my house.

[157] When I was struggling in school, I think I started to realize, like, I don't want to do math.

[158] I don't want to do history.

[159] Like, I just want to create content.

[160] And I think it was really hard for me to focus in school because I almost was like so focused on the goal of like, let me just keep creating content.

[161] And I can't explain it, but it was like the driving force for me to just keep going and to keep dealing with a lot of the bullshit that I was struggling with.

[162] therapy I'm thinking about that alignment you're talking about between being able to show up as yourself everywhere you go whether it's in school or whether it's on your show or wherever also it was quite clear that in school in your earlier years you weren't able to show up as yourself what role has therapy played in helping you to become Alex when you're on camera off camera in school in social settings wherever you go Well, at first, it wasn't changing my life.

[163] And my therapist was like, had a hard conversation with me. I think it was like two months into us working together.

[164] And she was like, Alex, I need to say something to you.

[165] And I'm like, am I in trouble?

[166] She's like, you can't you pay me. Like you're not in trouble.

[167] But I need to be honest with you.

[168] I can tell you're not, you're not being honest.

[169] You put on this facade that everything is good.

[170] Everything is okay.

[171] And like the point is.

[172] to come here and be emotional and you can trust me to not tell anyone, judge you.

[173] And I think I had kept this hard exterior for so long that it was really foreign to me to open up and talk about my insecurities and what I'd struggled with.

[174] Because when you're bullied, you eventually create this armor that is like completely sealed shut you you wear it and you like know the pain but you eventually have to survive and keep going and so I think in therapy my therapist was like what is why can I not like get in there and I eventually I didn't I didn't even say anything in that session I was like I don't know like I'm telling you the truth and then weirdly that was when I ended up opening up on my show about it.

[175] And then I came back to her and I was like, okay, here you go.

[176] And I just spilled everything because I was at least attuned enough to therapy from my mother of like, I know in order to actually have change within myself and for this to work, I have to be honest.

[177] But there was still like, I was still embarrassed to tell my therapist because I knew she would look at me differently.

[178] And I thought she thought I was like this well put together person.

[179] And I just was like, holy shit.

[180] I've.

[181] created such a facade that like everything is perfect exteriorly with me that I'm not going to be able to actually undo the damage that was done if I don't actually start talking about it.

[182] And so that was like a really pivotal moment for me where therapy finally broke down that layer, but my therapist had to chip away.

[183] And now she jokes about it with me all the time.

[184] It's like, do you remember when you would come in and I'd be like, so and eventually she was like, why are we here?

[185] whose decision was it to go to therapy me did you go with with a particular focus or just generally yeah it was a particular focus it was um about like the last year or so that i had a co -host i was really struggling um and i was like my mom kept being like i need to be your mom i can't be your therapist like you you need to talk to someone and that was when i finally so that was about like 25, 24.

[186] And I finally was like, okay, I'm just going to get a therapist.

[187] And it was in New York City and I would go in person with her.

[188] And that, it felt very, at first it felt very like, why am I here?

[189] Like, I don't need this.

[190] But then eventually it like cracked and it was really helpful.

[191] But it was not easy.

[192] I will say, I think a lot of people think therapy is like, sit down and tell your secrets.

[193] Like, it's so awkward at first.

[194] If you're not, even I had a psychologist just as a mother and I'm still like I don't want to do this but I think it's all in your head because once you open the floodgates they never close you were struggling yeah are you asked me with what yeah you said you're struggling so you probably from what you said you were going to your mother and explaining that there was a struggle that struggle is that is that a social struggle with a friend or is that a psychological struggle or I think in business There was a lot happening where I was living with someone I was doing business with.

[195] We were struggling with business.

[196] Like there were so many things happening.

[197] And I was, how do I say this?

[198] I was struggling to take care of myself in an environment that was really unhealthy.

[199] And was like the show was priority.

[200] But behind the scenes, it was a disaster.

[201] And so I was like compromising on a lot of things that like morally I didn't agree with or mentally I wasn't feeling good about.

[202] And it was at a really weird time because call her daddy was like the biggest show ever.

[203] And everyone was like, these girls are the best and they're the best of friends and they're the best.

[204] And like that's life.

[205] Like you it's almost like how everyone talks about like Instagram.

[206] We put our best foot forward.

[207] And it was all crumbling behind the scenes.

[208] And it was terrifying.

[209] to me because I worked my whole life to like get to a point like this where I'm producing a show and it just felt very scary to me that I didn't have control of all the aspects going on.

[210] And the symptoms were psychological for you?

[211] Psychological.

[212] I was basically in a co -dependent relationship.

[213] Like it was so unhealthy for both of us.

[214] And I think psychologically, yes, I even think physically it was taking a toll on me and then it was also taking a toll on my other relationships because like the partner I had at the time was like bearing the weight of me complaining about so much going on in my life because I couldn't go at the person that I had to get up every morning with and record right like I couldn't be um I had to keep the show going so it was like very detrimental to yes psychologically and my like mental health like the show came first before, I think, both of our personal needs.

[215] What was the advice you needed most at that moment but didn't get?

[216] Or maybe just before that moment happened, because that's kind of like, that's when things start falling.

[217] Yeah.

[218] But if you'd got advice maybe a couple of years earlier, it would have prevented you getting into that situation.

[219] So what is that advice that?

[220] And I'm saying this because of there's someone at home now who's, you know, they want to follow in your footsteps and whatever career or industry it might be.

[221] But when you get into business, and things start going well, you wish you just fucking wish that someone had told you.

[222] Fuck.

[223] I mean, maybe that it's okay to leave.

[224] It's okay to leave a situation for both people involved.

[225] It's okay to want to hold on to something because in some aspects it's really working.

[226] But if you are, compromising your morals and your mental health and at one point your sanity, like it ain't worth it.

[227] But again, I think like even if someone had told me that, I had to live through it because I worked my whole life for this.

[228] Like I finally got the show and I was producing and I was doing what I loved but I then started to hate it and that to me was when I was like I didn't need anyone to tell me at that point that I should leave it was like oh I've loved this my whole life something's off like if I'm this miserable there's a better way from that you must have learned the factors that need to be in place professionally for you to love work because you you got to experience head on all the factors that make a passion turn into misery.

[229] So on the flip side, what are the factors that you need and you believe people generally need for them to like love their work?

[230] Yeah.

[231] I think that the first thing is like business is so there's so many different layers.

[232] It's so so complicated even if it's just you.

[233] So then add another person in.

[234] It's almost impossible.

[235] And I think like it was so difficult.

[236] My partner and I at the time had such different wants, such different, you know, envisionments for our career in the future.

[237] And that is so okay.

[238] But I think the issue is like, if you have the ability to sit down before you begin, which we didn't really have, like I remember I came home one day or she came home from work one day.

[239] She was the third roommate to me and my best friend from childhood.

[240] we had met her like it was like a very random like hey we need a third do you want to come live with us we'd live together for like a couple months if that and I was like do you want to do this podcast with me I had no idea it was going to be the biggest podcast in the world I had no idea her wants and what truly she was interested in what she was passionate about we were passionate about such different things so it's like I think in business you do have to actually believe that this could become the biggest thing.

[241] You have to put your mind there.

[242] And one, that's incredible for your self -confidence to be like, if you're starting a business, pretend it's about to be Apple.

[243] Envision.

[244] And who you're sitting next to, do you want to be there with them?

[245] Or for yourself, are you willing to get there and sacrifice certain things in your personal life to get there?

[246] Like, whether it's a duo or a singular person, like you actually have to envision yourself at the end line and at your goal because you have to mentally start to function that way because then all of a sudden you could get there.

[247] And then you're like, oh, fuck, I didn't plan for this.

[248] And I think that's kind of what we both felt.

[249] We were like, we don't even really know each other three episodes in.

[250] This is the biggest show in the world.

[251] Like we're drinking buddies.

[252] Like this is not a, this is not supposed to be a business.

[253] And we are way in a over our heads.

[254] And I think that's okay.

[255] But I look back and I'm like, I had no idea what we were getting ourselves into.

[256] But I do think in business, it's like, you got to think big.

[257] Because once you get there, you better be prepared.

[258] And I wasn't.

[259] Do you know what?

[260] That's actually the advice that I wish I'd got before I started in business, which is imagine the day when someone comes along and offers you a hundred million how are your contracts how we because when you start you'll you'll you'll be tempted by oh my god 50 ,000 pounds to 10 5 ,000 pounds right here you go everything I'll sign anything and then and you do that often in your desperation and naivety but then you get five years down the line things are big and you just absolutely fucking wish and dread that you didn't think like this so there's going to be a lot of people listening that are either starting out and the business journeys that really need to get into that difficult mindset.

[261] The thing is what you said also applies to relationships generally.

[262] This idea of like making sure from the jump that your visions are aligned.

[263] Oh yeah.

[264] I also love that you said, you know, we wish we could have told ourselves.

[265] But then I'm also in life like, no, that was supposed to happen because now when I went and signed my Spotify deal, you best believe I was like, who's around me?

[266] Do I own these trademarks?

[267] Do I own this IP?

[268] Do I own?

[269] Like everything that felt like I had not focused on in the beginning that I was like kicking myself for the second time around, I was like damn sure that I had like everything locked in.

[270] And I still even made like a couple mistakes.

[271] But like I think that that's also just life of like you're going to have you can try to be as prepared as you can.

[272] You're never going to be fully prepared.

[273] but having some ability to reflect on what you wish you had done differently or better or the same.

[274] There were some things that I was like, I'm sticking exactly that course.

[275] I think you just have to think about it and be cognizant of those steps.

[276] And I think sometimes you rush quickly.

[277] Like that's like our world today.

[278] It's like, go, go, go, go.

[279] Like take the new job.

[280] Don't take a minute to pause.

[281] that's where I think you get screwed over within yourself of not recognizing like what's going to be different this time you're miserable over there how's it going to be different so I wouldn't take it back I just think of course there's things I wish I had done differently but then I did them differently for my next deal and I am exponentially happier with the way that I'm handling business who I'm surrounding myself with how I'm hiring you know who touches the product like there's everything now I've formulated.

[282] And I think a lot of people think like, oh, Spotify, like she's so many people around her.

[283] I have two or one people, one person in my office every day.

[284] Like I've kept it pretty small because that's what I always wanted.

[285] I want to produce.

[286] I want to edit.

[287] I want to direct.

[288] I want to do as much as I can in a smart way.

[289] But you just have to know what you want.

[290] And then when you get away from it, then you really know what you want because they're like, wait, I want to go that way.

[291] And that's a great thing.

[292] There's an interesting point here, though, about being a people pleaser.

[293] When a people pleaser strikes it big, it's hard to like put up those boundaries and start like saying what you want and what you need and having, because even the conversation we had a little bit a while ago about aligning and communicating what you want from the jump so that further down the line you don't mess things up and regret it requires a difficult conversation at the start.

[294] Yeah.

[295] I wasn't even like aware of how much I was.

[296] was people pleasing until it got to that breaking point where I was like there were so many things I was doing to appease people around me to keep the show going that was so unhealthy that now I have in hindsight, I'm like, what was I doing?

[297] Why was I like getting people out of bed?

[298] Like why was I like managing like drugs and alcohol and like trying to be this like fixer?

[299] And then it's like just trying to put a show on.

[300] I think I was like a little over my skis.

[301] I just said that because I was skiing this weekend.

[302] So that's the only analogy.

[303] I'm like over my head.

[304] I'm like over my skis.

[305] You can get down a really, really dark path if you do have a goal in order to get there.

[306] And that is also advice I give people of like it's not worth losing yourself to get the prize because what was hard for me is public perception.

[307] So I've talked to you about how much I care about people liking me. Now I'm on a world stage and there's comments and there's people and there was like a public fallout with a woman.

[308] So there's like someone's going to be the victim and someone's going to be the villain.

[309] And I was the villain.

[310] And I'm like, how did this happen?

[311] Like to me, I think publicly I struggled so much for a while of like wanting to tell the full story and wanting to tell the truth.

[312] and be like I promise like but I'm also then like my character was like I don't think anyone needs to know what happened behind closed doors and how dark it got and but I just know that I was proud of myself that I did I know I'm a good person but when you see the internet picking sides or doing this like it fucks with you and I imagine for her it fucked with her like it was really hard I think for two women to go through something so big in a COVID pandemic that people just wanted drama but I think my people pleasing tendencies of like wait why are these people thinking something that I'm not that ate me alive inside and I had to have my boyfriend my mother my father my therapist be like you both know the real story that's it that's all you need to know and so I think it took me a while though where I was like I want to clear the air like how many times are we going to go back and forth like you know what I mean but it can get exhausting trying to make people know your character and who you are especially when I've been talking on the internet for almost now five years like people think people have a perception of me and and that's something I have to live with and be okay with but it's hard I remember someone wrote in them in the diary of a CEO this little book that have in front of me guess when they leave they write a question for the next guest someone wrote in this book if today were your last day and you had to have a 60 second conversation with someone in your life, what would you say to them and why?

[313] And I was just wondering, as you were saying all of this, this was clearly a really tumultuous, pivotal moment in your life, for better and for worse, in many respects.

[314] Are there any words unsaid?

[315] If today were your last day, and I slid you a phone and said, you're going to have a conversation with that person, your former partner, would you dial the number?

[316] Would you say anything?

[317] No, because I think in a weird way, like when there's time I think both sides and I acknowledge both sides have their own story that then just keeps going on like I'm like what even is the reality anymore we both have such different storylines of everything that happen if I was like forced to I would just say like I hope you're healthy and you're well but I think we're both like in a beautiful way I said this to someone recently I was like it's so much better that we're both doing our own things.

[318] Like that's the same thing in like romantic relationships.

[319] Like I think a lot of times you try to keep making something work.

[320] It shouldn't be that difficult.

[321] It really shouldn't.

[322] If it's meant to work, it will be working.

[323] And I'm in the healthiest relationship of my life right now.

[324] And I'm like, this feels great.

[325] This is what it's supposed to feel like.

[326] So no, I don't think that I would pick up the phone because I think we see things very differently.

[327] And that's okay.

[328] That's life.

[329] like that's the world that's politics that's religion that's friendship's ending that's marriage is ending like you're just going to be like i don't see it like you and that's okay um i think the internet's probably a little bit more invested than even the two of us are but yeah i think that would be just i hope you're healthy cool her daddy you tell me where the boundaries are here but how big is this show you know it's difficult it's difficult to get an idea of it because it's kind of a black box the way it operates in Spotify.

[330] But what can you tell me about the size of the show?

[331] Because I want to go into what's made it successful.

[332] So give me a headline.

[333] I would say that it is the most listened to female podcasts in the world.

[334] Wow.

[335] It's, and it's exclusive at Spotify.

[336] So that is wild to me that the numbers, even being exclusive and you can only find out on one platform, that it's as big as it is.

[337] um it still doesn't really like register to me because when people say that i'm like podcasting's weird like i don't i don't like i'm not a singer or seeing everyone in the audience like i just like talk and then i go and eat a sandwich and play with my dogs and go to sleep like sometimes it doesn't register but the success of this show is wild to me because when we first released our first three episodes with barsoil sports it went number two right underneath joe rogan and i think every podcast if it has like a lot of traction like the algorithm works where like if you have immediate engagement of like new followers a lot of people are going to hit up in the top 10 but then by week three and then week four and then week 10 and then week 20 it was constantly just sitting right under rogan and then i remember like i think it was maybe our 10th week or something it went past rogan and then we were back to second and it was like whoa that wasn't that wasn't the plan like of course the plan is to get big but i just remember um i remember eric nardini who's the CEO at barcel came in and was like just so you know like girls your episode um is like getting the same numbers as our biggest show at barstool uh pm t or yeah and i was like really like that's so cool like we didn't have like a concept i don't think yet so it went viral so fast.

[338] And again, that goes back to like, there was no plan.

[339] Like I knew in my mind, like, I love doing this, but like there was no plan.

[340] I didn't even want to be a podcaster.

[341] Like I wanted to direct films and and TV shows.

[342] And so then after that, the show only continued to grow.

[343] And it still doesn't feel real.

[344] Like I think the craziest thing was when I signed my Spotify deal, it was very exciting for me that Spotify looked at me and was like we really respect what you did in the past but pitch us what's the future because that's why we're signing you knowing a little bit about Spotify and the numbers and the podcasting game i i know you must be getting hundreds of millions of downloads and streams a month it's wild like don't tell me that because it's like what it's crazy why the most listened to female podcast in the world hundreds of millions of downloads every month there's millions of podcasts out there there's loads of numbers knocking around i read one recently that said there's almost three million podcasts why yours why why you and why yours you must have like slowly over time which is kind of what we've tried to do look back and try to figure it out like what's the subtle and obvious things that have made you be so successful i think truly there is and like i'm obviously being biased but i don't think that anyone has the relationship they have with their audience the way that i do i think when you start a show talking about sex especially for women and it's so taboo and there's so much shame the amount of trust that that garnered for me and between me and them was unmatched.

[345] Like I still to this day it shocks me that women come up to me in the street and will tell me about sexual abuse that they went through.

[346] And we've just met in 15 seconds.

[347] They're like, Alex, I have to tell you, you got me out of this really toxic abusive situation.

[348] And all of a sudden, someone's coming to me being like, I married someone because of, like, it's like this relationship that I've built, I think is something that I will never be able to, like, really articulate.

[349] But I know it's also coming from a place because I need them just as much they need me. I think sometimes in the creator world, like, it gets a little disconnected because we also are trying to businesses right and you can't always do everything for your fans like I can say I have been in huge meetings with a lot of executive people telling me what to do and I'm like I don't want to do that because the daddy gang won't connect to that and there's a lot of money on the table or there's brand deals or there's all these things and I have really been intentional about like I care more about the content than what public facing accolades we're going to get and And I think because I've focused so much on my relationship with my audience, it's then just garnered like a, oh, this shit just keeps getting bigger.

[350] And it is a huge show.

[351] But like, I can't explain it.

[352] Like, if I brought a daddy gang girl in here, she would be like, let me tell you our connection.

[353] Like, it really does feel like so crazy how connected we are.

[354] So I think that is one side of it.

[355] I do everything for my audience.

[356] I sacrifice my personal relationships.

[357] I have skipped out on huge family things to like make sure.

[358] I'm like, no, I need to give the daddy gang something amazing this week.

[359] I've never put out an episode of Call or Daddy that I'm not proud of.

[360] Every week I'm busting my ass to provide for them.

[361] And it's...

[362] Do you delete episodes?

[363] No. You've never deleted one episode.

[364] No. Never record an episode and thought...

[365] Oh, I've deleted them, like, not published them.

[366] But like, if I've published it, I've never deleted it.

[367] Oh, yeah.

[368] So you've, like, had a conversation with someone.

[369] I've actually only...

[370] had a conversation with one person that I've never released just because they didn't want to be there.

[371] I think their publicists fucked them over.

[372] They didn't know what they were coming in for.

[373] And I respectfully was like, this ain't it.

[374] But, oh, I've recorded like so many solo episodes that I've never pressed upload on that eventually maybe I'll like put together and be like, these were my thoughts back then.

[375] But no, I've never, I've never deleted an episode that I've published.

[376] But my God, are you kidding?

[377] My catalog of things I haven't pressed upload on.

[378] It's like a whole other 100 episodes um but i and then i think the other side of why it has been successful is like it just goes back to without sounding like a egomaniac like i am obsessed with this it i can't explain it like every single week i'm like completely fixated on how i'm going to innovate make it better make it special so i think naturally like there are people that got into this industry that actually didn't really intend for it.

[379] And there's like producers handing them scripts and being like sit down and talk.

[380] Like I'm so obsessed and passionate about this that I do think that translates in how innovative the show has been and just like the growth because I love it and I love producing content.

[381] So it's been really easy for me in that regard.

[382] Like I've never had a doubt in my mind that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

[383] You touched a little bit there on the cost though that people don't see the sacrifice families relationships all these other things part of the reason i started the show actually was to shed a shed more of a light on the cost of like being a CEO because it's very glamorized everyone wants to do it but then i think providing balance allows people to understand if it's actually the right choice for them away from the accolades and the followers and the clapping like is this really the right choice of you so in your experience what has been the material cost of your your journey i think something i've been really struggling with is first of all with regard to business i'm such a creative at heart that business wise i'm really trying to work on recognizing like this has gotten so big i need to be in these meetings i need to be like i need to be interacting with people on the business end of things and like my boyfriend always jokes he's like you're 99 .9 % creative all times like you need to dial it at least 10 % to business, Alex.

[384] And I'm like, I don't need to answer the email.

[385] I'm just going to sit in the edit room and make the episode.

[386] So I think I've really, it's been a little bit of a challenge, like hiring people, personalities coming in, figuring out how to balance being the talent, the executive producer, and the CEO and the owner of a company is like, like it's a little it almost like contradicts itself like things that I should be doing as the talent the CEO shouldn't be doing like the conversations I'm having as the talent I shouldn't be having but I'm the CEO so I'm like I have to fire you and then it's like well are you going to go tweet about me you know it's like so strange where most companies like this that person wouldn't be a public facing person so like and then my people pleasing tendencies I've kept employees longer because I'm like, I can't fire this person even though they're not doing their job because like I don't want them to go online and say I'm a bitch.

[387] And then my therapist is like, Alex, sweetie, if you're paying someone and they're not doing their job, you have to fire them.

[388] But I'm like, so it's like I've struggled a lot with like who I'm having around me. Then on the personal side of things, I don't want to say the word exploiting, but I'm just going to say it.

[389] And I'm going to take it right back.

[390] But like exploiting my life for four years.

[391] there is a cost of like, I don't expect a lot of people to relate to it.

[392] It's really weird that I've talked about my sex life and my breakups and my heartbreak and friend breakups and family issues and trauma and all the things you can possibly imagine.

[393] Like that's not normal to be that open about it on the internet.

[394] So naturally, I think there's like a what's next, like always trying to one up yourself and that can be really detrimental.

[395] And I think when I look back at the early days of Collar Daddy, like I'm embarrassed by some of the things that I said.

[396] Not that I'm embarrassed by the product.

[397] I think it was great.

[398] But there's some things that I was like, why did I say that on the internet?

[399] Like that was mean or that was, but it was all like I don't think people understand like we were being rewarded by how much crazier it was.

[400] Every week it was like, if you get crazier, the views go up.

[401] The clicks keep coming.

[402] So it was like this really diabolical feeling in your head where it's like morally, I don't know if I should be saying this, but it just keeps bigger, getting bigger, the more that we keep saying wild shit.

[403] And I think in the beginning we had a handle on it.

[404] And then when we hit like episodes 50, 60, it was like throwing shit at the wall because people just wanted to see us like dance.

[405] It was like, do something crazy again this week.

[406] And that's why I have some empathy for creators that have taken it too far, where you see that line is like, they push it, they push it.

[407] Everyone loves right when you're teetering the line.

[408] They're like, oh, yeah, oh yeah.

[409] The minute you cross the line, even though they've been encouraging you to go farther, farther and you fall off, what's wrong with you?

[410] You're disgusting.

[411] Like, that's awful.

[412] You're a bad person.

[413] So it's like, it's a very, very fucked up industry to be a part of because like you're rewarded for.

[414] the chaos but if it's too chaos then you're out um has it ever crossed your mind being someone who publishes a lot of content and does it frequently at a certain cadence you have a community that are expecting it from you that you probably can't stop to some degree or the pressure that's that exists to keep you going keep publishing keep going keep going keep going means that there is in some respects you could say a bit of a lack of freedom Like, you couldn't take six months off, right?

[415] I can't even take two weeks off.

[416] I, yeah, that has crossed my mind.

[417] There's some days where, like, the, the unforgiviness of this industry gets a little, it freaks me out a little bit because I've found myself, like I just said, being like, wait, why did I do that?

[418] because I'm so deep in it and I'm so content focused that I'm pulling myself out.

[419] I'm like the Alex with her family and her partner and her real life.

[420] Like that's not who I am.

[421] I think I actually think that's why I kind of pivoted my show for a minute to interviews.

[422] I needed like a break because I was like, first of all, we don't need to keep hearing me talking.

[423] Like let's give me a break.

[424] Like you're all sick of me. I wanted to just start to talk to other people for a second because doing these solo episodes, every single week, I needed something new and unique to say.

[425] And that can cause you to lose your fucking mind.

[426] Like, I don't think people understand, like, an hour of content.

[427] I was talking to my boyfriend about this.

[428] He's like, I make hour and a half movies that we work on for nine months.

[429] Like, every week you have an hour to fill.

[430] And if it's just you talking, it's, it's like almost insane.

[431] Like, you're going to start doing things.

[432] you're going to start putting yourself in situations to get content to talk about things.

[433] And I started to be like, this is unhealthy.

[434] There's other ways to entertain people and other ways to feel creatively stimulated.

[435] And that's when I just started to talk to other people.

[436] And then interviewing, I think, gave me like a real sense of fulfillment because it goes back to my childhood.

[437] Like, I love connecting with people.

[438] I love what we're doing right now.

[439] This is like my jam.

[440] This is like, I could, let's go for five hours.

[441] Every time I do a podcast, people are like, that was the longest podcast we're ever done.

[442] I'm like, I can't stop talking because I love connecting with people.

[443] I love discussing topics.

[444] And right now, that's what I'm doing on my show.

[445] And again, like I said, who knows, maybe it will change in a year.

[446] But yeah, it's a weird feeling to be like, where is the end mark?

[447] I don't think there is an end mark for me because.

[448] Maybe it will look different.

[449] But I, aside from all of like the drama of what we're talking about, it goes back to me being like, I love this shit.

[450] And so are there boundaries I can set with myself in order to make it healthier?

[451] Just like any person with any job.

[452] Like you can get wrapped up in that and it's not healthy.

[453] A lot of it's been written about the financial deal you did with Spotify.

[454] A lot of people talk about that.

[455] What impact did that have, if any, on your life?

[456] There's the $60 million numbers flown around everywhere.

[457] You don't have to confirm or deny.

[458] But did that change things in any material way?

[459] It was the craziest, truly the craziest feeling that I still can't really articulate of like, I never started this for money.

[460] I'm really fortunate how much my parents were like, keep it real.

[461] Keep it normal.

[462] Like, what is all of this if you're about to be like this like, none of this matters?

[463] it could all be gone tomorrow and so I've been fortunate to be raised by people that like I just it hasn't really affected me I feel like the same person that I was in Pennsylvania definitely a little bit more progressed in like how I feel about myself and and I feel smarter and you know more holes a human being but like that number to all it did to me was solidify that the brand that I built deserves to be where it is and I haven't really let it get to my head I'll let you know if it does But like for right now, I feel like everyone keeps asking me, like, how did it change your life?

[464] It for the rest of my life will change my life and my kids' lives.

[465] And like, I get that.

[466] But in the immediate, I'm still working the way I always work.

[467] I hunch over at my computer.

[468] I like, I have the same keyboards.

[469] Like people are like, how do you not have like the keyboard with all?

[470] Like there's certain like tech things that I could be doing.

[471] I don't give a shit.

[472] I want to do exactly what I've always been doing and keeping it real and tight.

[473] to myself and like a little janky like I feel like it like makes me feel like I'm still myself and it hasn't expanded in a way that maybe people think it has and so I'm I'm proud of myself that I've kind of stayed really grounded in who I am and why I started this and I'm going to continue to always be cognizant of like why I started this who I am and none of this shit actually matters like who gives a shit about a purse like you could lose it like I want to have real relationships I want to be close with my family.

[474] I want to be respectful of people I'm around.

[475] I want people to like me. I want to make people happy.

[476] I want them to make me happy.

[477] I want to have fulfilling dynamics in my life.

[478] That is like the richest thing I think about me right now is like I've worked a lot of my relationships.

[479] And I am finally I can say at a point where like I'm happy in my life.

[480] And that to me, like there's no number you can put on that.

[481] I don't give a shit if they took that away for me tomorrow.

[482] out whoops, but, you know what I mean?

[483] I'm like, it's, it's amazing.

[484] But I still feel like the same person back in Pennsylvania.

[485] Is there, this is a conversation I've had previously with one of the very successful women on my podcast, you built an exceptional business.

[486] Is there a unique dynamic when a woman becomes incredibly successful as you have in terms of her relationships with a man. Some of my girlfriends have often said to me that they think men can often feel emasculated a little bit when their partner is incredibly successful.

[487] Yeah.

[488] I remember when I started Call Her Daddy, I was having a really hard time with dating just because as the show got bigger, yeah, men were so insecure.

[489] but also that may have been because I was the next morning talking about them on the show being like this is what his whatever looks like okay but no I I really um struggled to find genuine relationships of like again I still feel like the like awkward girl that like still at times looks in the mirror and I'm like hyper fixating on certain things about myself like I'm still insecure so like yes I'm the call her daddy girl.

[490] But I'm also Alex from Newtown Pennsylvania that was bullied and awkward and insecure and like hated everything about herself.

[491] So like I always wanted them to know that version of me that's worked on myself to have self love to respect myself.

[492] Like that version is who I want them to love.

[493] But you also have to love my job and respect it and and appreciate that this is my passion my partner now i remember meeting him and i was like oh he's the one because he's so successful in his own right and the amount of times that he's been like you could stop all this tomorrow i would love you but you are so talented it's like the hottest thing about you like when you start talking about your job i like melt for you because you're so engaged and passionate and excited and i love how passionate you are it makes me so happy to be your partner that i can watch you live out your dreams and I was like okay you pass the test like but but it's hard like I think if you're in a relationship it's not to say that you there's going to be moments where your partner's down you're up financially um where they're at in their career their status like if you just got a promotion your partner just got fired like that's going to happen but overall respect was a huge thing for me where this means more to me than anything.

[494] And I need someone that can respect that like I'm going to choose a lot of times my career in moments.

[495] And I need you right now to ride with me on this wave of like maybe in 10 years it's not going to be the same.

[496] And my partner like was the, this is the first partner I've ever had that is my biggest cheerleader is, you know, we're potentially going to do some stuff work wise together.

[497] And he's like, you be the face of it.

[498] You do like, I, like, I, don't like this is you like this is like all you and it's so refreshing to have someone have such an intact ego that when we're going to bed at night it's like how is your day how is your day all the successes all the issues failures ups and downs we're like we'll get through it together and that is i'm like it's allowed me to probably be 10 times better at my job because i have a secure partner i have a really great relationship and now when i'm showing up to work i'm feeling even more supported than just being supported by myself and my immediate family.

[499] If your partner wasn't successful in his own right, do you think it would work?

[500] I think you have to define success because I actually had this conversation with him the other day.

[501] It's not about money.

[502] It's about I couldn't be with someone that wasn't passionate about something, that didn't have their own sense of identity, their own sense of drive and want, that doesn't work for me because I'm a very passionate person where like I've been on dates with guys where I'm like, I get it.

[503] Like you're, you don't feel when I'm, I'm like electric when I talk about my job.

[504] And I think that's okay.

[505] I think you, I need someone that equally has something in their life that they feel so driven and pulled by that it allows two individuals.

[506] to come and make a great couple, but we got our own things.

[507] And so I don't give a shit if he's not making money.

[508] If it's every single day he's waking up working for a nonprofit and he's like, I'm going to change the world.

[509] Go off.

[510] Absolutely.

[511] Love that.

[512] Success to me is more that like you're successful in working towards something that you're so passionate about that it does consume you at times.

[513] Because I'm a workaholic and like I can't have someone that.

[514] that's like I just want to chill like and there's something wrong with that I'm just a really aggressive motherfucker and I'm like I need to be working and I want to be fulfilled and I am fulfilled by my job so it doesn't have to be your job but you have to be successful in life of what you're aiming towards achieving you have to have some type of achievement some type of passion some type of purpose or else we're not going to have too much to talk about because I can't shut up So like, yeah, yeah, even if it's like, you're a teacher.

[515] You're a teacher and you love what you're doing.

[516] You're changing these kids' lives.

[517] You're showing up amazing.

[518] It's just you have to have to have something because I've clearly got something.

[519] And it's my baby and it's call her daddy.

[520] You've clearly got something, that's for sure.

[521] I told you a second ago that guests, when they leave here, they write a question in the diary.

[522] What we did because the conversations we have here tend to lean more towards the vulnerable side of people is we turn them into these little cards so you can play at home.

[523] And no one's ever seen who's written the question.

[524] They don't know who's written them and they don't know what the questions are.

[525] But this box has a couple of questions.

[526] And I've taken about 60 of them out, but I've picked a couple for you.

[527] Okay.

[528] So I'm going to slide it across the table.

[529] All right, Stephen.

[530] Here we go.

[531] And I would like you to pick a question out of the conversation cards.

[532] Okay.

[533] I might ask you to pick more than one.

[534] So let's see how we get on.

[535] Okay.

[536] Whichever one calls you.

[537] Oh, my God.

[538] I have two.

[539] Okay.

[540] what pain do you enjoy having what um oh my god we don't want to be demonetized on youtube so just oh right youtube oh i've cursed too many times no no no it's fine the casting's fine the casting's fine i mean i'm concerned about what you're are you oh you're like the collar daddy girl's about to tell me she's experience no no no I'm gonna get deeper than that no pun intended um but god youtube what pain do you enjoy having i think i've enjoyed the pain of experiencing true love i thought i was in love in the past i was in certain variations of whatever i could be capable of giving for love and receiving for love but recently i've really experienced the painful moments of loving someone going through grief, loss, death with them, going through moments of disconnect, moments of not knowing if it was going to work out.

[541] Like, I felt such pain in moments, but also such happiness and joy that completely overrides the pain.

[542] But I don't think I've ever experienced it the way that I have with this partner in the beginning that it was painful to get to where we are now now I don't experience that pain with my partner but like it was don't curse um you can curse it was a motherfucker in the beginning to try to align is this going to work because we both knew it was there but we were at a little bit of different points in our lives and I think the yeah I enjoy the pain of of love and like real like once in a lifetime it feels like love daddy gangs be like you sappy bitch what we've lost you i'm still here it's okay can ask you to pick another card one more absolutely i told you i would be here for five hours if you let me say like i will just keep talking i'm not flying back to london today so we're okay you got a flight you got a flight um um oh do you think you're younger self would be proud look up to you now yeah yeah i do which is so crazy if anything i wish i could have shown my younger self in those really really dark moments like bitch you got this like look what you're about to do like just wait hang in there i think i would be so proud of myself because I've stayed honest with myself.

[543] I've stayed loyal to what I've wanted and I've, I've gone for it.

[544] I've taken a lot of risks and I've put myself out there, which was not something I'd like to do when I was younger.

[545] So I think my younger self would be like, damn, we did it.

[546] That phone that I proverbially slid you earlier on, I said to call your ex -business partner if you had 30 seconds.

[547] If I slid you that phone now and I said, you can have a conversation with 8, 10, 12 year old Alex Cooper and you can say anything to her and you've got 60 seconds to say it to her, slide you the phone.

[548] You call her what you say?

[549] I know right now it feels like there's no getting out of the pain.

[550] I know you feel so alone.

[551] You feel unseen.

[552] You feel unloved.

[553] You feel unworthy.

[554] But I promise.

[555] you every single thing you're going through right now is going to build you into the person that you're going to be so proud to be in the future and it's worth it hang in there ask for help you don't have to do everything alone and I love you what's next for you oh um a lot that is very exciting um you're launching a business aren't you i can tell and it's is it a product?

[556] Is it cosmetic?

[557] What is it?

[558] I think that.

[559] Tell me Kylie, Jenna.

[560] Tell me. You're going to be on Forbes.

[561] I think it's going to make a lot of sense.

[562] It's, it's staying in my space.

[563] It's, I'm never going to be like, I'm coming out with a water.

[564] Like, it's like, I'm never going to do something of people like, oh, God, she sold out.

[565] It's within the next month, I'll be launching something that is just going to completely elevate and expand the Call Her Daddy brand.

[566] everything that I'm passionate about that I've talked about today, it's just expanding and it's going to allow Call Her Daddy to live in so many new places and you're going to be able to experience Call Her Daddy and that brand and other things that I'm passionate about, you're going to be able to consume it.

[567] And there's just going to be a lot more that you're going to be able to watch and see.

[568] You've achieved so much.

[569] It's funny because when I was thinking about this new venture that you're going to be launching um something you said earlier was really thought provoking to me you talked about how you've kind of just got to ask the world and executives and people that you're meeting for what you want even if you don't really know it what you want that like idea of like demanding from people what you want i think you said this when you spoke to jay as well on his show and it rang rang a bell in my head somewhere because i'd heard someone a young member of my team say that they in some respects felt like they're kind of faking it, but they needed to fake it to get the value that they deserve.

[570] And I reflect on that.

[571] I think in the conversation with Jay, you were talking about how women struggle with this more than men in business because of that sort of reluctance to or whatever.

[572] How important do you think it is for people listening now that look up to you for them to fake it before they make it or to, you know, like demand from the world what they want, even if they don't feel like they deserve it.

[573] I think it's everything because I don't want you to be disingenuous with yourself, but I also want you to realize, like, confidence is a word that feels so like, just be confident.

[574] It is so hard to be confident.

[575] You can be confident in certain aspects of your life and very unconfident in others.

[576] You can be confident in your friendships, but when you walk into work, you're so unconfident or the complete opposite.

[577] I would say with business, I've learned, like, if you know what you want, that is something you should be able to locate.

[578] What do you want?

[579] what do you or what do you at least think you want what makes you happy what's what is a goal you can at least put on the map because if not then like take a little minute for yourself like come up with something then when you're walking into these rooms you can allow that to kind of be your compass I know there's so many things for call her daddy that I've wanted to do for so long and I know that my audience knows like I have kept call her daddy in this bubble and it's almost like about to burst like I've just stayed with the podcast I have my merch but like I don't do much.

[580] I don't really do anything other than it.

[581] So I think when I think about expanding in my mind, it needs to be so perfect.

[582] But also I'm like, but there's so many opportunities.

[583] What do I want to do?

[584] You don't actually need to know exactly like the into the weeds of it.

[585] Start having conversations leading with that compass of this is what I know I want and ask people for help, talk to people.

[586] Like I've been having so many meetings that I'm like, I hate meetings.

[587] just let me go create, but I've been having so many meetings about what I'm about to be launching.

[588] And there's been people that are able to ask me questions that I wouldn't have been able to think about had I been at home thinking.

[589] So it's like having a compass of what you know you are driving towards and then opening it up for discussion around people that have complete different ideas and mindsets and you will be able to find help.

[590] But sometimes I think we think we have to do it all on our own in business.

[591] Like don't let anyone know what you're up to.

[592] It's not there.

[593] No one can actually take that away from you because whatever you're going to do is going to be unique to you.

[594] But I do think I had a hard time asking for help.

[595] And now finally I'm having meetings with people that are so brilliant.

[596] And they're allowing me to think past what my brain was only able to see.

[597] And now it's opened up a world.

[598] So anyone in business, don't be afraid to even have like a, hey, can I pick your mind for like a little bit?

[599] Like let's go to a coffee.

[600] I just have like some questions I want to ask you.

[601] All of a sudden you're going to leave there and you're going to either.

[602] know more about what you want to do or it could have completely spun you in a different direction either way you're going to take something positive from it but I think a lot of times in business especially as women it's like be hush hush like don't let anyone know what you're doing like I think that's I think it's yes of course keep to close to the chest of like an IP that you're working on that like someone can't steal and you haven't trademarked or something but like open yourself up to other people helping you you don't have to do it all on your own directionally then you're talking about the compass there directionally what does alex cooper want i think i really am looking forward to doing what i always wanted to do producing and directing i didn't intend to be an on host talent let me be so clear i remember in college my professors were like you should be like a sports announcer and i was like no and like nothing against sports announcers i just knew in my bones i was like i don't want to do I don't want to, like, I always wanted to be behind the camera.

[603] Then it just so happened that I'm in front of it.

[604] And like, I'm like, oh, I do like it.

[605] But produce, I'm like producing myself as I'm talking right now.

[606] Like, I'm naturally more of a producer than just like a talent.

[607] So I think what I want to be able to do is to explore past just the immediate producing of a podcast.

[608] What else can I produce?

[609] Ooh, mm, mm, mm, sounds like a media company or something.

[610] or a tourist studio the Alex Cooper it's a long sip i don't know steven that was a long sip shug golding and keep drinking let's your next question my next question comes from the book let's see what has been left for you the guests never know who they're leaving it for what is one thing in your life that is currently hindering your happiness and what will you do to rectify it.

[611] This is really weird, but I actually was, I had something that was hindering my life a little bit and my happiness.

[612] And I spent the whole past weekend just trying to figure out like, how do I, can I say this?

[613] There was something that I was not someone in my life that was.

[614] really bringing negativity to my life.

[615] And I've worked on boundaries with my therapist.

[616] And then my therapist's classic line is like, you love to set a boundary and you hate to maintain it.

[617] And I'm like, fuck.

[618] She's like, you're so good at being like boundary.

[619] And then a week later, I'm like, how's a boundary?

[620] And you're like, it's gone.

[621] I'm like, oh, God.

[622] So I finally for the first time, just kind of ended a relationship with a friend.

[623] It was, really just like negative and toxic and it just was like why is I felt that like weight that you're like oh my God I'm waking up and thinking about this like this is so negative in my life and I I was able to kind of put an end gracefully to a situation that clearly wasn't making either of us happy and I was so proud of myself because oh trust me I was like replaying the conversation like practicing in front of my boyfriend like how do I say this like confrontation to me I'd rather flip backwards and go into a different stratosphere than have confrontation.

[624] But I was proud of myself because I was feeling really, really icky about the situation.

[625] And I had a conversation that was kind of beautiful and ended a really toxic situation.

[626] Cheers.

[627] Not easy.

[628] Not easy.

[629] Difficult conversations.

[630] You know, people ask me this question all the time because of my podcast.

[631] They always say, and I'm sure you get asked this so often that you're fucking sick of it and you have a pre -written answer.

[632] But I'm just personally interested.

[633] What to you now makes for a perfect interview on your show?

[634] Like what are the core components of just a really great call her daddy interview?

[635] What are you looking for from the guest?

[636] I'm looking for them first and foremost to show up with an open mind.

[637] I told you before this.

[638] I was like someone I just recorded with was like, Everyone in the morning before I came and filmed with you was like, do you want a cocktail?

[639] Do you need a drink?

[640] And the woman was like, why do I need a cocktail?

[641] Like you're freaking me out.

[642] Like I think call her daddy has now set a standard of like, we're going to go there.

[643] We're going to have really open on his conversations.

[644] So I think I want people to come open minded of I'm not trying to exploit you or exploit your life.

[645] I'm actually in long form trying to get to know you as a whole human being.

[646] And that's why I really respect your show.

[647] And you're so good at what you do because you're just listening and you're trying to pivot with them to understand who they are and what makes them them.

[648] So I think coming in open -minded is the first bit because I think there's a lot online for Call Her Daddy that people are like, here we go.

[649] Like, this is about to get wild.

[650] I think the second thing is someone that is willing to express things that maybe they're not even comfortable saying or they haven't even fully thought out because I feel like the show does a great.

[651] job of holding someone in a space of like we'll work through it like say it and then let's like backtrack and and I'm never going to let someone say something that's wild and then they're like I didn't give context like we'll get the context so I think someone that's willing to just speak very frankly and openly I think sometimes especially celebrities have been burned so many times in media that they are really closed off and I actually think it does a disservice to them because then they come off more rigid or more unlikable or you know less authentic and so I think my goal is always to have someone basically trust me which is wild I they are meeting me usually for the first time ever when they sit down with me and I think that I've been able somehow to gain this rapport with people in the first like two minutes before we actually start where I think they feel like she's definitely not what I thought.

[652] I think when you meet me in person, it's very different than what you see online.

[653] I think people immediately soften and are like, oh, wait, like this feels different than what I expected.

[654] And then I just ask that they trust me that I'm, I'm really here to have a really exciting and interesting conversation.

[655] And I'm not trying to ruin your life.

[656] And we, let's see where it goes.

[657] But most of the time when people then come in are vulnerable and open and are willing to go there.

[658] That's what makes the best episode.

[659] We're all going through most of the same shit, themes wise, different levels.

[660] But the human emotion is the human emotion.

[661] I don't care if you're sitting in one country or the other or it's all going to be different, but it is all relatively similar that we can at least be like, I can kind of connect to that.

[662] I can kind of connect to that.

[663] That's always the goal.

[664] It's like just speak and I'll do the job to wrap it in a bow to make sure that everyone feels somehow connected to this person.

[665] Where's your line in terms of earlier on you said it took you a while to share with your audience that you had been bullied when you were younger?

[666] Do you still have things now where you go, I'm not quite ready to share that yet?

[667] Or I'm thinking about sharing this part of my life with my audience.

[668] Yeah.

[669] I mean, I've been like really open.

[670] I do think there's a couple things that I am just keeping more close to the chest because I want to formulate them with a little bit more insight than just an immediate throw it up.

[671] I think that the podcasting is amazing because I can sit for an hour and talk.

[672] So I think it's way more stimulating to hear someone speak from in the first day that it happened to me I was dealing with this.

[673] A month later, I felt like this.

[674] So I think there's a couple things in my life that I'm just trying to experience a little bit more before I speak on it.

[675] Anything off limits?

[676] No. I am like, I feel like I've said everything on the internet that now as I progress anytime I'm like, should I say that?

[677] I'm like, I really, I don't know why, but I'm very unafraid to, like, you could ask me anything.

[678] And I'm like, I'll answer your question.

[679] Like there's never, I don't have publicists with me. Like I don't, I don't really care.

[680] That sounds like a challenge.

[681] I got to go.

[682] Time to go.

[683] Yeah.

[684] I think, okay, so the question I'm going to ask you then, seeing as you challenge me, and this is my last question to you is it's actually one of those cards in there.

[685] It says, I reflected on it when I was picking the cards that I wanted you to have.

[686] It was, your arms crossed.

[687] Why did I say that?

[688] Um, slide me the, slide me the card.

[689] I'll show you which card it was.

[690] It was one in here.

[691] I thought, oh, that's a, that's an interesting one.

[692] That's a dozy.

[693] Yeah, this one's a real stitch up.

[694] Let me find the one it was.

[695] Ah, it's this one.

[696] Oh.

[697] I'll put it back in there and I'll wrap it up just so you can uncover it.

[698] There you goes.

[699] It will be the first one.

[700] There's only one in there.

[701] Oh.

[702] Oh.

[703] No. Tell me something you have never.

[704] told anyone before oh i'm going to have to sit here for an hour and think about this i as you know i can never shut up so i'm pretty open something i've never told anyone i don't know if this is going to be anticlimactic but i would say that i don't think i ever express how as as great as everything i've been talking about is like that my career scared me at times like I don't think I've ever said that out loud to anyone because I think I come off with like a lot of confidence and I'm I love what I do but like it it's scary in moments um how do I explain this and like take this out of my brain like we're we live one life we're here and I'm kind of like this is what I chose to do and I'm 28 right now it's a little scary to think of how publicly I've decided to live my life and I try not to think about how scary it is at times like because I don't think it's a very relatable thing to say like when I'm producing my show I'm always like that doesn't sound relatable of like talking about like your comment section like it's really fucking scary how much every one.

[705] week.

[706] I just keep putting myself out there.

[707] And I, it's almost like, there's no time to stop and like wonder, like, am I, is this what I should be doing or would I be happier doing something else?

[708] Like, because I am really happy, but it's like this public world isn't exactly what I wanted in terms of like producing content.

[709] You can do while not being a public.

[710] facing person um so i think i i get it freaks me out sometimes and then i just try to not think about it because i don't think just like anyone if you're if you're going through something like i can't really explain the feelings maybe unless you're in the situation which i know is like oh boo who you chose this but like it's really fucking weird having millions of people watching you listening to you taking your advice like living out what you're telling them to do like sometimes i'm like fuck like am i doing it right like am i i think social media like it's a little it's just a little weird because i don't think it's natural so i just it's natural so i just sometimes with that this is really fucking scary.

[711] Like, we're sitting here right now, but it still doesn't register me that so many people are going to listen to this.

[712] Like, I'm half blacking out in this interview, but I'm like, oh shit.

[713] And then like, these are like my high thoughts always, but I'm like the perception that people have of me on the internet, I'm like, I kind of feel like that is who I am.

[714] But like, is that who I am?

[715] Like, you have to perform when you're in front of this microphone.

[716] I'm not talking all day, contrary to what I've said, I never shut the fuck up.

[717] But like, it just is a little unnatural.

[718] And so it's scary to reflect sometimes and be like, have I taken this too far?

[719] Like, what am I doing?

[720] And then the other side of me is like, go.

[721] Like, you're living your dream.

[722] Like, get after it.

[723] But I'm like, but like, would it be better if all these people weren't watching?

[724] And I picked something a little bit more behind the scene.

[725] I don't know.

[726] I have to figure that out.

[727] But it's, it's scary as hell.

[728] It's hard to undo, right?

[729] Because it's also intoxicating and it's addicting and it's unrelenting.

[730] And it's unrelenting every single week.

[731] What's the new episode?

[732] What's the new episode?

[733] You put out one that people don't like to guess.

[734] That was shit.

[735] What's your next one?

[736] You're like, oh my God, oh my God.

[737] And it's like not a normal job to have to be like, please, please, please, give, give, give, give.

[738] Oh my God.

[739] Be better.

[740] Be better.

[741] Get the next one.

[742] Like make it, make sure it has this many views.

[743] Get like, you're literally like, what?

[744] Like in bed at night, I'm like, what is the next thing?

[745] And so it's a little, it's like thrilling and exciting as hell as a creator, but also as a human being.

[746] It's scary.

[747] How are you truly feeling?

[748] Right now in this moment?

[749] Or in life?

[750] In life.

[751] um i'm really happy i really am like probably the happiest i've ever been and i think that's probably why i'm able to be just so like all over the place open right now because i love to though think about what's next what am i doing um but i feel very happy and if you would ask me that like eight months ago I'd be like no so I'm happy I'm just constantly in my head thinking like I can't stop it's like 2 a .m and I'm like picking up my phone writing notes like um so I sometimes I'm like please stop my brain never is like silent so I think that's where when I start having conversations like this.

[752] Now I'm going to be home like, huh.

[753] Whoa.

[754] Like this has given me a lot to think about.

[755] But no, I am really happy.

[756] I just, this job is very fucking weird.

[757] So I'm trying to figure it out.

[758] I'm 28.

[759] I've been doing this for only four years publicly, which it seems like it's been a lifetime.

[760] Literally, it feels like it's been, I feel like I've been doing this my whole life.

[761] and then to think of how big the show is and how many millions of people are watching me every day and I'm like, I've been doing this for four years.

[762] That is actually a really short amount of time.

[763] But it feels so much longer than it actually is.

[764] So, who, yeah.

[765] Well, this is why you're brilliant, isn't it?

[766] That obsession.

[767] And with that obsession comes the cost of the 2am, note section in the iPhone.

[768] That's the cost of the brilliant.

[769] right and there's always a cost to our brilliance but thank you so much for the inspiration you've been an inspiration for me on this show when I'm trying to figure out which way to go and try to take cues on like why you know you've managed to build such an intense immense connection with your audience and yeah I'm so excited to see this production company launch that Alex Cooper studios and your movies and all of these things you're going to do in the future because they're going to if they have the same principles as your current show they're going to be equal as awesome and I'd love to invest in that if you ever looking for an investor so Oh, yes.

[770] No, thank you so much, Stephen.

[771] Like, you are so talented at what you do.

[772] And I don't think I've ever had a conversation with cameras around this honest.

[773] And I really appreciate whenever people are getting vulnerable and talking about their feelings, it does take a very specific type of human being for someone to open up.

[774] And I felt immediately comfortable with you and you're so talented.

[775] So thank you for having me on because this was a pleasure.

[776] But now also I'm going to be not stopping thinking about.

[777] all the things I just said for the rest of the weekend.

[778] I'm like, shit.

[779] No, thank you.

[780] Thank you.

[781] Thank you.

[782] Thank you so much, Alex.

[783] Thank you.