Joel McHale

[0] Welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by my friend Monica Padman.

[3] Hello.

[4] Boy, oh boy, do we have a tall guest today?

[5] Tall drink of water.

[6] A real tall slurp of water and a muscular slurp at that.

[7] Oh, yeah, thick water.

[8] Yeah, I don't think people realize when they see Joel McHale on the television set or on a billboard on the side of the road, just how beastly is.

[9] He really is.

[10] He's gigantic, right?

[11] Mm -hmm.

[12] Not just in his height.

[13] He's very broad.

[14] He has a big swall heart.

[15] but he's very broad and dense.

[16] He's quite muscular, and it's really overwhelming in person and intimidating.

[17] Yet, despite that, we were able to have a really lovely conversation.

[18] I assume you know Joel from the previous show.

[19] He was on Soup, and he was also on Community.

[20] He has a new show on Netflix that I just, so I was just visiting my mom for six days in rather unfortunate circumstances.

[21] And I plowed through seven episodes of his show.

[22] You did.

[23] The Joel McHale show with Joel McHale, which of course is a great title.

[24] And God damn, is that show watchable?

[25] Oh, I was putting them back like Doritos or Oreos dipped in milk.

[26] Yeah, it was, it's really, really funny.

[27] And it moves out quite a clip.

[28] And both you and your lovely wife have, have been on that show.

[29] We've both been on that show.

[30] In fact, last Friday, I filmed a little bit that will air.

[31] I'm not even certain when.

[32] But throughout the years, we've always been social with Joel.

[33] We've teamed up on trying to get someone elected to school board superintendent.

[34] He's very philanthropic.

[35] And we get a call from him quite often.

[36] And he gets a call from us quite often.

[37] And he's a very dependable gentleman.

[38] And I really enjoy talking to them.

[39] He was so well read.

[40] That was not that I didn't expect it, but just, holy smokes, he read a lot.

[41] Do you think the show also could have been called the Joel Scholl?

[42] Yeah, I think that if I had named it and pronounced it, it'd be called the Joel Scholl, starring Scholl McCall.

[43] So please, please enjoy Scholl McCall, my tall, robust, muscular, handsome, kind, well -read guest.

[44] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

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[47] He's an armchair expert.

[48] He's an upshire expert.

[49] I remember when a man was taking a shit in my house.

[50] In a tub.

[51] Joel McHale, welcome to the armchair expert.

[52] I can't believe I'm here.

[53] Thank you so much for...

[54] Why don't you go ahead and have a knickorette?

[55] I'm going to pop in several nicknarrets.

[56] Because I want to match your energy and I know you have spectacular energy.

[57] That is true, but that's from my cocaine tablets.

[58] Oh, you have cocaine tablets.

[59] Yes, they dissolve.

[60] That was Stevie Ray Vaughn's thing.

[61] Do you know that about him?

[62] No. He didn't snort it.

[63] He put it in his whiskey.

[64] He drank it and everything was going honky -dory.

[65] And then all of a sudden his like stomach rotted out.

[66] That'll do it.

[67] It seemed like a hack, though.

[68] Like a cocaine hack so that your nose would stay.

[69] I mean, a guy was a singer, right?

[70] Yeah, and you still are putting cocaine in your body.

[71] So, but if there is a safe way to do it, then what's the issue?

[72] I wonder if they, because I know that is it true that former cocaine users, if they were heavy cocaine users, typically they have, they have, well, yes, they're with the, um, dildo with glisten.

[73] I never met you during that time.

[74] That was before I was on basic cable.

[75] I was not.

[76] Well, yeah, I had about a year of having some success and still being an addict.

[77] So how's your heart?

[78] Well, so I went to a cardiologist and I guess what can happen.

[79] I'm sure there's more extensive damage that can happen.

[80] But the circuitry between your brain and your heart can get a little dicey.

[81] And how's yours?

[82] Well, I just want to tell everyone what just happened because they won't know that you just, flipped off Rob, our producer, who's a very kind person.

[83] What's he going to do?

[84] He's from Chicago suburb.

[85] Oh, Naperville?

[86] My dad is from Chicago, and he said, Naperville was just farmland.

[87] Now it's like this huge town.

[88] Metropolis.

[89] With great high schools.

[90] I don't understand.

[91] Have you read Devil in the White City?

[92] Yes.

[93] Isn't that great?

[94] It is so good.

[95] And I would love to, I know that there was like, Leonard DiCaprio is going to play him and all that.

[96] I was like, you should really not make it a movie.

[97] you should make it a eight -part series.

[98] You're so right.

[99] There's very few books that can do two subjects at one.

[100] So the writer tells two stories that the history of the Chicago World Fair in the 1890s or something, right?

[101] The, uh, the white, yes, it was called the White City.

[102] And there's still a few remnants of it today.

[103] And it was the World Fair that immediately followed, um, the unveiling of the Eiffel Tower in Paris.

[104] So that the stakes were incredibly high that they had to do something spectacular.

[105] they didn't know what to do.

[106] And at the time, they had about a year to build it.

[107] Right.

[108] And they had to deal with Chicago winters where they're like, I don't know how to get through the soil here.

[109] Right.

[110] Right.

[111] These were the same guys that figured out how to put tall buildings in downtown in Chicago.

[112] Well, to me, that's the third element of that book, which is so fascinating, is that the early architecture of skyscrapers.

[113] Yes.

[114] Because they were born in Chicago, not New York.

[115] And everyone thought, well, because the ground in Chicago, they was impot, because he had to make this huge foundation to build these huge.

[116] buildings and Chicago did not have bedrock.

[117] The land to yeah, secure it.

[118] So they figured out how to float these buildings.

[119] So all the buildings announced Chicago are literally floating.

[120] But they're just counterbalance.

[121] Also they're just the fact, you know what I liked about that book too?

[122] Well, and then they would describe the parties they would throw.

[123] When this fair was going and they would go like, well we brought in four elephants and butchered those and then 90 Moroccan soldiers.

[124] I was like, what was crazy?

[125] I liked it to just because it gave me a ton of gratitude for the time we live in because you don't realize what it was like to live in a city that heated all the buildings with coal and provided light with oil lamps or gas lamps.

[126] Like the whole city was sooty.

[127] Everyone was coughing.

[128] Everyone had fucking black long.

[129] And then the other thing you realize, too, is that I'll call him the protagonist in this book.

[130] He's a murderer.

[131] Let's go with antagonist.

[132] But isn't he our hero?

[133] I guess maybe.

[134] No. He was not my hero.

[135] What's wrong with you?

[136] You're a terrible human being.

[137] What did you read?

[138] Did you read the black dahlia and go like, gosh, this guy's, this guy's doing great.

[139] I don't know.

[140] You know, we learn about him first.

[141] So he just kind of, I don't know, muscle memory told me he was our hero.

[142] But at any rate, he would just show up and assume people's identity.

[143] He'd be like, oh, I'm their son, the people who own the pharmacy, I'm their son.

[144] Don't worry about me. And there's no way to prove who you are back then.

[145] And then he's just killing people.

[146] And then he's writing letters to their family going, hey, move to California.

[147] And there's no way to find out if they moved to California because you can't call them.

[148] Yeah.

[149] You can't even write a letter.

[150] It's got to fucking go through Panama and shit.

[151] It'd be a year before.

[152] Yeah.

[153] He would marry people, take their property or he'd kill them and then have their property and sell that.

[154] Well, yeah, he moved above, if I remember this correctly.

[155] He moved above a pharmacy just as a renter and then killed both the people on the pharmacy and just assumed ownership of it.

[156] Yeah.

[157] And they were like, well, they're gone.

[158] They're in California.

[159] Everyone moved to California.

[160] That's your hero.

[161] He's my hero.

[162] That's a hero.

[163] He's got a. poster behind it.

[164] Great book, though.

[165] Great book.

[166] It really, and that author, Lars, his last name is Larsen from Seattle, Washington.

[167] He's written a number of great books.

[168] And the fact they can gather that stuff together and put it into a narrative.

[169] I'm just like, those are 150 times smarter than me. Oh, absolutely.

[170] I read this book called the Dark Matter and the Dinosaurs, which is a science book.

[171] And I was so bad at science.

[172] And then I heard the woman interview.

[173] I'm like, she might be able to make it make sense to me. And I read it.

[174] Well, I can't read.

[175] I I just listened to everything.

[176] But she, I was like all these crazy concepts.

[177] She broke them down for me. And I was like, if only if this was the way I could have accessed something like science.

[178] Sure.

[179] Well, it's not unlike our job, which is it requires a very bizarre combination of things, right?

[180] But I'm confused by your job because this house we're in is a piece of shit.

[181] I mean, what do you do all day?

[182] Listen, we're going to get to my house and the fact that you had to wade through mud to get up here today.

[183] It looks like their house was attacked.

[184] guys.

[185] Yeah, definitely.

[186] Wait, no, but I think you're right and that actors do tend to take.

[187] You would just think, oh, you need to be good at acting.

[188] Well, that's not true.

[189] You have to kind of be an entrepreneur and you have to be a self -starter.

[190] There's no like manual to how to do it.

[191] And so I'm sure the best actors of all time never ever acted because it required this other weird skill set, which is like self -promotion and showing up and all this.

[192] Or you could say they realize their only, I mean, if their actors say in the Middle Ages where they just marry bands of actors like, we'd love to put on a morality tale for you.

[193] Do you have some bread and broth for us?

[194] A morality tale.

[195] But that's what they would do these play where they would teach you let.

[196] Is that the same as minstrels, like wandering minstrels?

[197] But basically they had to, I mean, or like a court gesture.

[198] Their job was staying alive each day.

[199] Like only piss the king off to a certain point.

[200] Well, and then this goes back even further if you want to get into our evolution, which is we have this uncanny capacity to remember.

[201] stories and tell stories because we didn't have the written word for so long and our culture is what makes us successful as an animal right we've given up so much of our brain space so that we can learn right we don't come out of the womb we can't do a goddamn thing we got to learn how to do everything so we have to have a way to convey all this information so we have this crazy capacity for stories so well you've been acting out stories forever but you could also make the argument we are using our whole brain because up until just a few thousand years ago well not even of that less than it.

[202] We spend most of our day going don't die.

[203] Oh yeah.

[204] Stay warm.

[205] Have shelter.

[206] Avoid the guy with the boils on his face who seems to be dying right now.

[207] So each day was survival and I mean the people crossed mountain ranges wearing one blanket and and so every day was a new adventure in living.

[208] Yeah.

[209] And we're in a constant state of homeostasis as they say.

[210] I mean, our biggest problem is the culture is trying to stay thin.

[211] Are you ever driving?

[212] Do you drive up to Washington ever?

[213] I have many times.

[214] Right.

[215] But with kids, we haven't as much.

[216] Okay.

[217] I'm still doing it.

[218] I'm a glutton for punishment.

[219] So we just drove to Oregon over Christmas, right?

[220] Always when I'm driving through Grant's Pass, I think it is, the tall pass between Oregon and California, I think, Jesus Christ, man, coming through here in a fucking wagon with no roads.

[221] How can they, how did they do it?

[222] I can barely get through, you know, and I got the kids in the car if it's snowing.

[223] Like, you're starting to think, I'm stupid and irresponsible.

[224] I should have flown up.

[225] Why have I put my family in this situation?

[226] And we're in, we have airbags.

[227] Yes.

[228] I mean, what would you feel like as a dad going, fuck it, man. I'm going to go out to California.

[229] You guys are coming with me. How many times on that trip where you're like, I'm the worst human being ever?

[230] Look when I'm putting my family through.

[231] We're going to die.

[232] Yeah.

[233] Also, I could find some gold out there or something.

[234] Yeah.

[235] Or, yeah, you think about all of our.

[236] and especially Irish and you're Norwegian Norwegian and Irish but like you fucking look it too thank you you really do so my great grandfather left uh he was of like the fin the Norwegian part of where a bunch of Norwegians live in Finland he left that he went to Ellis Island his last name was smidgerbocken okay and they went and they were like what's your last name and he's like Jackson and just think about like oh not only I'm leaving where I'm from I'm leaving my family I have no money.

[237] Oh, and I don't even want my fucking last name.

[238] It's over.

[239] I'm starting so new.

[240] And what did he do?

[241] He moved to fucking Juneau, Alaska.

[242] Which at that point...

[243] Why leave fucking Finland to go to Juneau Alaska?

[244] Because they had gold and fish.

[245] And you could start a life.

[246] And that was when the gold, the companies are running the gold mines there.

[247] They would just kill the sheriff if they got any trouble from them.

[248] Sure, they had the leverage.

[249] Yeah.

[250] And I just remember thinking, like, my grandfather went to some sort of frontier shooting.

[251] out and and he was like just go fishing and did he journal or is there any like no that's a bummer wouldn't that be great to read his fucking journals of Juneau Alaska that's the problem he took on an innuant lover at any point or a nupeate lover oh yeah no that's exactly what I jump to well yeah yes he did I have a lot of you's ever invited into an igloo I guess is what I'm saying well there's no igloos in Juneau how do you know you don't know because Juno is much further down It's almost...

[252] I didn't invite you here for a geography of us.

[253] Just because it's the one thing you don't know about it doesn't mean...

[254] I have to be the smartest person.

[255] Juno is way down.

[256] It's midway through British Columbia.

[257] British Columbia is a province of Canada.

[258] Your mother's Canadian.

[259] Is this why you're...

[260] She's from the Westman.

[261] I think people are largely aware of it, but I just want to make a personal attestment to it.

[262] You're a beast.

[263] You're a very imposing physical beast.

[264] Well, I did, I did forget that I was doing this today.

[265] I was in the gym.

[266] Yes, you were.

[267] You are.

[268] So, backstory, Joel was going to be here at 10 .30.

[269] And I thought around 10, 10, what's a gentle way to just remind him?

[270] I don't want to accuse you of having forgot, but I thought.

[271] Absolutely, you should accuse me because this is a conversation I have with my wife daily.

[272] Uh -huh.

[273] But I don't know you well enough to know whether you're, if you're like the Rock of Gibraltar, if I can count on you.

[274] I don't know that side of you yet.

[275] So I thought, I'm just going to do a gentle.

[276] It doesn't seem like I'm saying, hey, remember?

[277] So how did it come off?

[278] Because I think I said, hey, if you get confused, just give me a ring.

[279] It came off exactly like, this is a very polite way to remind me that I'm doing this today and not next Friday.

[280] But I can't, like, even on, we have a scheduled spring break and we booked flights, we all that.

[281] And then Sarah, my, the loveliest person, super gorgeous.

[282] You have no idea how lucky I am.

[283] And she's so wonderfully responsible and an adult.

[284] She goes, hey, genius.

[285] It says you're going to San Antonio in the middle of our ring break.

[286] And I was like, oh, so, let me get into that.

[287] Let me get into it.

[288] This is a constant.

[289] Do you overcommit?

[290] Oh, yeah.

[291] It's an actual problem that I need counseling on.

[292] It's like I'm constantly being electrocuted and I can't open my hand.

[293] What do you think that stems from?

[294] Is it codependency?

[295] Is it like just an eternal optimism that everything will work out?

[296] I think the competitiveness and aggressiveness of the business that we've chosen, when you first are young here, and I arrived here when I was 29, which now I look back and I, that's basically 14 to me. Did you feel like you were playing ketchup because you had arrived 11 years later than most people?

[297] Yes, and I didn't know the rules.

[298] There aren't any rules.

[299] You go into it.

[300] And when it starts working, you're like, right, you just got to keep going.

[301] and you fill up the whole thing.

[302] We work your ass off.

[303] And then, yeah, and then last, in the last two years, community and the soup and Graden Doors were all canceled.

[304] I mean, community kind of reached its end, and we ended the streaming service of Yahoo screen.

[305] We went six seasons, but I basically didn't, you know, have a job.

[306] So I was like, well, let's go hit the stand -up route.

[307] And I started booking stand -up.

[308] And my wife was like, you got to ease off.

[309] You got a 9 and a 13 -year -old.

[310] And I'm like, right, right, right, right, let's go throw the football.

[311] Right, right, right, let's go back in.

[312] You want to go get some shoes?

[313] And which is not healthy.

[314] And because at the end of your life, you're like, yeah, you really entertained those folks in, in Edmonton that one time.

[315] But you could have.

[316] But you weren't there for your kids, yeah, soccer game.

[317] Yeah.

[318] But I'll be there from playing football tomorrow.

[319] So it's going to be great.

[320] Oh, that's a juicy topic.

[321] It's flag football.

[322] Okay.

[323] There's no head on head.

[324] Yeah, but I had seven concussions on a skull.

[325] Well, I'm not an idiot in riding a motorcycle, right, Dex?

[326] But do you, shut the fuck up.

[327] Don't you dare to go?

[328] Whoa, we're going to fight motorcycles.

[329] Do you, I think about this a lot lately.

[330] I think I'm 43, what do you, 45?

[331] Monica is 13 and Rob is 22.

[332] But I think early in my career, I was so hungry.

[333] Because unlike you, I did come here early, but I had 10 years of auditioning, never got a fucking thing.

[334] So when I had an opportunity like jump through that plate glass window, you got it.

[335] I'll do it.

[336] And then I was, you know, but that's not the most appealing personality type to maintain anything for a long time.

[337] So I've, yeah, I've had to really kind of think about that a lot.

[338] So you probably do the thing where you're like, I'll figure it out later, you know, but right now I'm jumping through this plate glass window.

[339] Yes.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Well, again, what was super helpful is to marry Kristen who has a completely opposite.

[342] Right.

[343] A train of thought on all topics.

[344] And she's been good at gently pointing out like, you know, these fight stories you tell, it's not people's favorite part of you.

[345] And I'm like, oh, really?

[346] That's interesting.

[347] Because where I'm from in Michigan, these are good, good stories.

[348] These glanced.

[349] He's like, no, people don't want to feel like they're around someone who might just get physical with other people.

[350] It's not a comforting thought.

[351] As much in my mind, I'm thinking, this would be so comforting for everyone to know that I will confront the guy if he comes through the door.

[352] That's the opposite reaction.

[353] I want to ask really quick because you said you listened to books and I too listen to books and do you feel guilty when you admit that you actually listen to that book as opposed to read it?

[354] Oh, people will shame me by going, you didn't read that book, you listened to it.

[355] And then and then I will say I'm four inches taller than you.

[356] What are you going to do about it?

[357] That's nice.

[358] That's a good retort.

[359] No, so So I'll be like, it's worked out.

[360] Do you want to hit to the tennis court that I own?

[361] But I now, like for a while with like when I started the soup back in 2004, I was so anxious because I can't really read.

[362] And all I had to do, and I had to read teleprompter.

[363] Well, right.

[364] We're both dyslexic.

[365] I repeated grades.

[366] I would, yeah, they were, they literally diagnosed me with slow starter.

[367] So my sons are also dyslexic.

[368] one is being diagnosed, and the doctor goes, and she's describing all the symptoms.

[369] And I was like, that's my, that's what I have.

[370] And she goes, oh, I was wondering which one it was, because it's passed down.

[371] And then I said, I was, they told me I was a slow starter.

[372] And she just put, even mean those slow stuff.

[373] I don't know.

[374] She put her head down.

[375] She goes, I cannot believe someone just called some kids stupid.

[376] Yeah, that's what it is.

[377] It's a euphemism for stupid.

[378] Slow starter?

[379] Yeah.

[380] And my dad would always, because my dad clearly has dyslexia.

[381] He would never really admit it for a long time, but he'd always say, like, not bad for white trash from Chicago.

[382] Right.

[383] Because my dad also worked his ass off and did well.

[384] And so, uh, and I was like, right.

[385] Does he jumble a ton of words?

[386] Does he like mispronounce people's names and stuff?

[387] No, but he can't remember names just like I can't.

[388] Yeah, I can't either.

[389] I mean, uh, Betsy and Bill.

[390] If it's just two people, I'm fine.

[391] Like, I did a stand -up show in Columbus last weekend and I have a cousin who lives there.

[392] Uh -oh.

[393] And I checked to my mom.

[394] I was like, do you know if, uh, Do you know which show Mary's coming to?

[395] And she goes, Jane, your cousin of the last 46 years?

[396] Yeah, she's going to the first show.

[397] Because my mom was a newspaper editor.

[398] And my dad was very smart to marry somebody who could edit everything.

[399] Handle all the reading and writing.

[400] And when Audible .com came on, were you like, thank you, Jesus.

[401] Well, I weirdly, you know what's interesting is I did not learn to read to fifth grade.

[402] But then I did develop a super passion for reading around, like, my senior year in high school.

[403] And then I just read super slow.

[404] But I did learn.

[405] I loved reading.

[406] I really got into books on tape because of my insomnia.

[407] So I started listening to these McCullough books, these dense historical books that are so mind -numbing with detail.

[408] They would put me to sleep.

[409] So now that was about three years ago.

[410] So now I've listened to like 100 books because it's what puts me to sleep.

[411] So you found out you were dyslexic because of your son?

[412] Yeah.

[413] Well, it was a, everyone knew.

[414] But you thought you were a slow starter until...

[415] Years.

[416] Years.

[417] I was just like, right.

[418] And I kind of took that philosophy.

[419] My whole thing was because I cheated all through high school and college.

[420] Oh, you did?

[421] And I was always like, I'm just going to figure out how to get good grades without having to work.

[422] Uh -huh.

[423] Because I don't, I can't read it.

[424] I can't read the material.

[425] But I'm just going to cheat and I'll figure it out.

[426] Were you good at math?

[427] I was very good at geometry.

[428] Uh -huh.

[429] I aced all that stuff.

[430] And strangely, the only science class I ever did well was physics.

[431] Because it's all spatial stuff.

[432] Right.

[433] You can visualize all that stuff.

[434] So I can go, oh, right, this make.

[435] And so I loved physics and geometry.

[436] I tanked algebra.

[437] But I always figured, my whole thing, approach to education was how do I figure out the system?

[438] And then once I figured that out, then I could be like, oh, right, this is how I'm going to get better grades than I should be getting.

[439] I would imagine, though, do you have a crazy memory for auditory stuff?

[440] Like things you heard, right?

[441] You can hear a story and it's fucking there.

[442] So, yeah.

[443] In college, I took as much history as I could, because I loved the history, and there was a number of lecturers where I could just listen to the lecture.

[444] I would get it, and then I knew I could just write it down in a test.

[445] But when I would get these, they were like, here's 18 books for you to read.

[446] And I'd be like, I'm not going to read any of these.

[447] I remember classes where they would present the books, and I would just drop the class.

[448] Oh, you would.

[449] Yeah.

[450] But these other guys would go, strangely, though, like I had to do research where I would, they would be like, you cannot use textbooks.

[451] You can only use old newspapers.

[452] And I had an okay time.

[453] I think there's so many pictures and visual stuff that I can read old newspapers very quickly.

[454] But what's cool is growing up, we think like, oh, we're fucked, right?

[455] Everyone's clearly reading and they're doing all that stuff.

[456] Yeah, yeah.

[457] And the grades would suggest that we're fucked early on.

[458] But you don't realize you are developing this superpower, which is this memory for things you've heard, which then as someone who improvs a lot and is off the cuff, like this is your greatest weapon is that you you have this crazy database, right, of little clips in your head that you can draw up pretty fucking quickly.

[459] Yeah.

[460] It's scary when you meet someone like, I don't know, like I'm just, when, like this friend of mine who has named Drew Hanson and he's in the state legislature and watching Road Scholar Harvard, he can read anything at any, the fastest you've ever seen and he's got the insane memory.

[461] And I'm like, oh, really?

[462] Drew, you need to run for president.

[463] Yeah.

[464] Because you've got everything.

[465] When they read a book, in my experience, They just don't retain nearly as much As probably when you read a book Or when I read a book Because we're going so fucking slow Yeah And when he's just having someone read it to me Is yeah I love it Yeah it's the I Whenever I exercise or drive I don't listen to music Nearly as much as I used to Because I'm reading all the books That I should have read I'm reading all of Dostoevsky I was like oh this is the stuff I would never have read Did you read crime and punish you?

[466] Oh what a fucking book The way he can relay what people think is unparalleled.

[467] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[468] We've all been there.

[469] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[470] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[471] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[472] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[473] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[474] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[475] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[476] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[477] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[478] What's up guys?

[479] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[480] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation and I don't mean just friends.

[481] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[482] So follow, watch and listen to Baby.

[483] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[484] I read the gambler, which is apparently an anti -Semite, which is the unfortunate part.

[485] You're going to have to overlook that.

[486] Henry Ford as well, you know, but we got the car out of the guy.

[487] So Monica is like, people.

[488] That's a big, big topic that would be worth talking about.

[489] Let's do it.

[490] Here's my thought.

[491] And now there's a lot of movements that basically the end result of these movements is people are gone.

[492] They're kind of just put out to Siberia, right?

[493] Yeah.

[494] And what's interesting is I don't think we ever calculate what cost are we going to pay now for this.

[495] So we're going to punish this person who might have a ton to contribute to society.

[496] Henry Ford, right?

[497] The guy is, it's despicable.

[498] He was an anti -Semite.

[499] He was a supporter of Hitler.

[500] This is all bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

[501] But his net result on society is still so positive, right?

[502] Right.

[503] But we live now in a culture where if Picasso was among us, and we found out Picasso had done something dodgy.

[504] We would just get rid of Picasso.

[505] He would be banished, right?

[506] He would never be allowed to create anything.

[507] And then we then would be denied all that.

[508] So it's just an interesting...

[509] I don't know.

[510] I mean, you could make the argument that...

[511] So in Michael Jackson's case, obviously, he went to court for possible molestate.

[512] He was cleared.

[513] And I think, obviously, big fans are like he was ruled innocent.

[514] And, uh, but you could also not in the civil cases though, right?

[515] No. And yeah.

[516] And you, that whole thing about being I being able to identify marks on his penis.

[517] That's a, that's a, that's a, uh, seems like a, uh, what do you call it?

[518] In a court case.

[519] I mean, that feels like open and shut.

[520] Yeah.

[521] If you can describe, you know, right.

[522] And so you go, yeah, but his music still gets played, obviously.

[523] As it, again, as it should because I don't know, I I don't know why the world should be punished because he had this terrible aspect to his personality.

[524] Why should we all be denied this amazing music that spreads joy and makes everyone dance and is happy?

[525] It's just, I don't know.

[526] When I listen to, I'm like, you can't enjoy Michael Jackson.

[527] It's hard for me to, I mean, yeah, I mean, that was such a public case.

[528] But then, you know, you read about John Lennon and Julian Lennon, his older son has said he would never have kids because he never would ever want them to have the same.

[529] upbringing that he had.

[530] And I was like, oh, that is painful.

[531] And did that lower your your enjoyment of Well, it does when people go like, isn't he the greatest?

[532] And I was like, it's not the greatest father.

[533] At least of that first round was no good.

[534] Right.

[535] But that's my issue is that for, I guess what I'm, what at least how I feel like people, what people are saying is, uh, unless someone is entirely perfect across the board, uh, then any great, great thing is, is Nolan void.

[536] And that's just, Martin Luther King Martin Luther King had orgies that were recorded by the FBI had those come out in that day he probably would have been silenced would we have denied ourselves the civil rights this that happened yeah all these tapes were made public a few years ago you know so you could fucking John F. Kennedy he had sex with a virgin in the White House pool that would probably be the White House has a pool that was my biggest shocker too she was making the rounds on like she did a six 60 minutes thing.

[537] She had been waiting for Jackie O. to die to tell her story.

[538] But she basically was a virgin and got hit on by him and some staffer and they went into the pool and they had sex in the pool.

[539] And, uh, you know, that's a dodgy situation.

[540] Yeah, that sounds really dodgy.

[541] It does.

[542] It does.

[543] But all things aren't equal here.

[544] I think the level of pain and injustice is different.

[545] But let me just ask you, if the, if there is a man that has the cure for cancer in his basement laboratory and he hates everyone.

[546] and he uses the N word at breakfast.

[547] Are we going to punish ourselves because he has that side of himself?

[548] To me, it's like the opposite of the utilitarian philosophy, where it's like, who's at the breakfast?

[549] You're going to have to fucking tolerate some shit if you want the upside of some of these people.

[550] That's true.

[551] But cancer, which saves people's lives, is different than looking at paintings.

[552] I don't think so.

[553] I don't think you can say that the value that Picasso added to world history or that, Michael Jackson's added is not commensurate with some scientific breakthroughs.

[554] Joel, please.

[555] But it's the same thing.

[556] It's the same sort of theme of somebody who contributes something great to society who's despicable in a big way.

[557] Yeah, the point is, can we handle that?

[558] Are we big enough to acknowledge, yeah, that guy's a fucking scumbag.

[559] But I got to say, no one plays a violin like him, and that's worth having in school so kids can learn violin.

[560] I do think now that sort of behavior is hard to hide.

[561] Obviously, Ford was open about it, but now it's way harder to keep, like, behavior like JFKs because of, I think of having so many, thank God, women reporting in news, that stuff all changed.

[562] So now it's going to be different.

[563] Yeah, look, I've floated this opinion out loud at parties and people are quick to say like, okay, well, what if it's your daughter who's blank, you know?

[564] And I go, yeah, well, that is terrible.

[565] But there's got to be another solution other than guy with cure for cancer.

[566] You're in Siberia.

[567] How about he's not allowed around women or whatever?

[568] Any number of practical pragmatic solutions to this stuff where we still allow the one good thing about the person to be nurtured or supported, you know?

[569] I think it's tricky.

[570] Well, it does get to that weird thing.

[571] You're like, yes, he's just like, oh, but society has benefited from.

[572] from this car thing, or has it?

[573] The ozone are in the...

[574] Yeah, sure.

[575] I mean, other than that, other than...

[576] And we're slowly baking ourselves, but yeah.

[577] But I think you'd be hard pressed to go through history and everyone we hold up, if they had lived in the era of Twitter and whatever else, I don't think we'd have many people on Mount Rushmore.

[578] And then so what would we be left with?

[579] Yeah.

[580] Like our moral superiority that we punished everyone who wasn't perfect.

[581] Right.

[582] absolutely it's so weird it's uh once you get into the weeds of it it's very difficult i want to ask you've been labeled a slow starter what what impact do you think that has had on your you know full adult life no i decided not to pursue pop music uh no uh i i always thought i'm gonna show um i thought it uh and uh and i thought i know what to get around and so i always was figuring out ways to get around stuff i mean i knew i was good at sports and i knew I loved acting and performing.

[583] So I really dove into that and I made school always became secondary.

[584] And I knew that I was, I could tell jokes in class and that always did well.

[585] But but again, what's the chicken and what's the ag?

[586] Because the ag, I went to Christopher walking all.

[587] I was like, so I developed, I think at least a sharp sense of humor in response to being the fucking dumb dumb who is being led out of the classroom.

[588] So do you think, think that's the root of like the days that spelling bee would come up like I'm not going to be able to spell any of these words and then you know then I'd make a then it would be fun to make a joke out of it right and I could make people laugh and they would still think I was the dumb kid but yeah but I always I always excelled in sports so I knew I had advantages there yeah yeah it is nice to be crushing in at least one department that really gave me like confidence all your self -esteem but I really was I didn't ultimately care I it was that it was that thing where I mean I probably missed out on some good education but I was thinking was like oh well if I can't do it I don't want it you know like it's stupid it's dumb yeah yeah I did a lot of that and I went to college I definitely should have not gone to college and you went to UW right you know it's a hard school to get into right but my grades were pretty good my SAT scores were a disaster so what I did begin, I think it took me a long time was, there was like, this year to go to acting classes and stuff like that and you're like, this is how you do it.

[589] And I realized I was like, oh, I can only use 20 to 30 % of this information.

[590] I only, I have to take stuff that I can use and throw everything else because it's not useful to me. Right.

[591] So when I began to kind of think for myself and go like, oh, here's how I can accomplish this to my certain level of accomplishment, that I can do, whether it's like telling jokes or something.

[592] That really kind of helped.

[593] To know my, go like, I know my skill set here, and this is what I think I can do.

[594] But I think the athlete part is really key.

[595] Yes.

[596] That's a great source of, A, you fit in with a bunch of guys on teams, I'm assuming.

[597] And you learn what you're good at.

[598] Right.

[599] You're, yeah, you're excelling.

[600] You're better at something than other people.

[601] Like, I think that's a great well to have, you know, if you're lucky enough.

[602] And when you do well, it helps.

[603] And do you have at all, I have, this is a terrible side of me, is I'm fucking know it all in response to thinking everyone thinks I'm a dumbass.

[604] Do you have that?

[605] First of all, knowing you a bit, not too much, but I've never gotten that feeling.

[606] I never got the, oh, there's the insecure guy that has to prove that he's smart.

[607] Oh, good.

[608] All I thought was, Dax is one of those kind of cowboy rogue, smart guy, other sort of freakonomics type of alternative.

[609] Can I use that for my bio?

[610] Do you imagine?

[611] Sure.

[612] That you go like, he's got like he's a motorcycle expert.

[613] He can race cars.

[614] He's clearly smart in ways which typically smart people or typically seen smart people would run screaming and crying from.

[615] So that I've never felt you try to, but I'm sure there was.

[616] Oh, in my 20s.

[617] I think I was insufferable.

[618] It was so important to me that you understood I was not a dumb dumb.

[619] That's.

[620] And it really, I think I was real tough to be.

[621] around.

[622] I think people would agree.

[623] When did you feel like you became easier to be around?

[624] Well, I think, well, getting sober helped.

[625] And I also think being around, Kristen helped a lot.

[626] And I think just generally getting some fucking self -esteem along the way.

[627] You didn't have like growing, I mean, clearly you were a good athlete.

[628] You excelled a different like, obviously the motorbike sports.

[629] Well, right.

[630] So that's, the fact that you're not dead or completely mangled is amazing.

[631] Yeah.

[632] I do have a theory that when, I will die and then I'll get to heaven and I'll go, oh, it finally happened and they'll go, oh, that's so cute.

[633] You think this is the first time you died.

[634] You die there in 1989, you die.

[635] Like, it could be a fun reveal that, like, we die a bunch of times and then they finally like, whatever, who cares?

[636] What?

[637] I don't know.

[638] This is totally not what we're going into.

[639] You believe you've actually died before?

[640] I don't believe I'm going to heaven or there is a heaven.

[641] But I just play a fun game where I get to heaven and I go, oh, that's pretty good.

[642] I made it to 72.

[643] I was expecting to die at 62.

[644] And they go, oh, no, no. you did die at 62 and you died at 46 and then you know that motorcycle accident you died people don't live from that you thought you lived and you're like so you feel like they just keep you around so you learn some lessons in this story an angel grabs the motorcycle with you on it and goes whoa buddy boy let's just no like no they'll show you that oh you were dead like you were dead then they just woke you up yeah and they're like no you survived this crazy car accident I look forward to your book whenever we're talking about like, you know, what we hope our daughters will leave the house, like whatever, if we could impart one skill, I know, you have two gorgeous gladiator Viking sons.

[645] Well, they're really good looking and I think they'd kill each other, right, if you let them.

[646] Yeah, yeah, which is, I think, is going to serve them well in life.

[647] Yeah, my brothers and I, we killed each other.

[648] Yeah, same here.

[649] But if I had to pick just a single thing that they left the house with, forget whatever kind of self -motivation we could bestow to them.

[650] I would want them to exercise.

[651] Literally, if they did nothing else, I would...

[652] Horrible awful people.

[653] They could be terrible in school.

[654] They could be all these things.

[655] Ford anti -Semites.

[656] Yeah.

[657] But as long as they hit the gym?

[658] They could be burning crosses in the front yard.

[659] No, but if they left the house and they exercised three times a week, I would be most happy about that.

[660] And I'll tell you why.

[661] Wow.

[662] Because This all relates to you, don't worry.

[663] So you'd be like, Lincoln, I'm sorry about the six divorces you've had.

[664] But I know she'll be happy because I do think exercise is a huge source of happiness because, and again, I have nothing to support this theory.

[665] I do think for the bulk of time humans lived here, we spent, as you were talking about, we spent a big portion of our day being physically active, gathering food or actively hunting.

[666] And you were rewarded for that work with serotonin.

[667] And now we're all sedentary or we have jobs where we don't do anything physical.

[668] And that's why you have pandemic depression in this country.

[669] I feel like.

[670] Also, in England, several years back, they stopped treating people with mild depression with pharmaceuticals.

[671] And they started the NHS or whatever that national health system is called.

[672] They will pay for them to go to a gym three days a week because they've found that that has better results in treating mild depression than pharmaceuticals.

[673] So you have this gift.

[674] You work out nonstop, right?

[675] I'm working out right now.

[676] I am just flexing down below.

[677] You are.

[678] I'm doing cagels.

[679] Okay, great.

[680] You have the most powerful cagels in the business, they say.

[681] It was so well known for it.

[682] But you have this, you might, have you ever recognized that this is a gift you have that, like, you were into athletics and then you, for whatever reason, you've kept that going.

[683] Do you acknowledge that that might be a big building block of your own self -esteem and your own happiness?

[684] Oh, yeah.

[685] Definitely.

[686] And it's, it's, I do.

[687] find it rather, I mean, there's a selfish part of it, obviously, because you want to look good and you want to not, we're vain.

[688] Yes.

[689] And you're like, maybe you could go to a soup kitchen and help out downtown sometime.

[690] Uh, got to hit the gym for 40 minutes.

[691] That's all I got to measure this salmon out before I eat it.

[692] Yeah.

[693] How do I look?

[694] Great.

[695] And so it's very kind of narcissistic in that way, but I, but the other side of it is keep moving because most American, uh, people our age, Not your guys's age.

[696] 13 and 22.

[697] You guys are getting high school credit, junior high school credit.

[698] Is that our parents, not our parents, but our parents before, by the time they were our age.

[699] I mean, they were, it was, there was enough cigarettes and whiskey and not moving around for the most part.

[700] They were like, that was it.

[701] And no, I, as you said, the endorphin rush, all that stuff is, I feel like if I don't exercise, then.

[702] Yeah, because clearly you've had periods where you're working too much and you can't, right?

[703] Have you had long layoffs of working out?

[704] Well, then cut to me in my trailer doing push -ups going, I need to do 200 push -ups.

[705] Yes.

[706] You have a very regimented diet.

[707] Well, that's the vanity part.

[708] It's the Jimmy Kimmel starvation diet.

[709] Oh, you're on that one day a week, you fast.

[710] Oh, no. I do three to four.

[711] You fast three to four.

[712] Today I haven't eaten.

[713] And you're not going to?

[714] And I won't eat till eight.

[715] Oh, my.

[716] How does this not fuck up your metabolism?

[717] I feel like this has to lower.

[718] Don't you go into starvation mode?

[719] I have more energy on non -eating days than I do on eating days.

[720] That's no testament to what your metabolism's doing, is it?

[721] Oh, I feel like you're a hummingbird?

[722] No, human beings did not constantly feed themselves.

[723] Well, that's very true.

[724] And we now live in a society where we have access to food all day, all night.

[725] And that just was not the case.

[726] And I feel bad for us.

[727] I watch these nature shows with the girls.

[728] and you see what a fucking bear will do to get a seal, right?

[729] I mean, it'll kill itself to get a seal.

[730] And you go, oh, we have that same hard wiring.

[731] So I'm very sympathetic to, like, we're nearly defenseless against that.

[732] You know, if you see what we'll do to get a piece of meat, of course we're fucked.

[733] Yeah.

[734] Wait, what is the diet?

[735] Can you break down the diet?

[736] It's not really that difficult.

[737] I mean, I can break it down.

[738] Yeah, tell us.

[739] How many days?

[740] I do three to four, usually three a week, where I'll have a dinner.

[741] and then I don't eat until dinner the next day.

[742] Really?

[743] And then when the dinner, the dinner is what?

[744] It's responsible as well?

[745] Well, the thing you never can...

[746] How are you keeping on this much muscle mass?

[747] Because you're very...

[748] Guys, the physique is off the fucking charts.

[749] The chest...

[750] Literally at the gym.

[751] I literally zipped over from the gym.

[752] The chest is bulging.

[753] The biceps are vascular and powerful.

[754] This is great.

[755] Do you take like supplements to keep the mass on?

[756] No. I would just imagine...

[757] Vitamins and propitia.

[758] We are virtually the same.

[759] I mean, yeah, you're more imposing physically.

[760] That is not true.

[761] But the dyslexia and the, I mean, could be from the same tribe.

[762] The cheating.

[763] I only cheated in Spanish.

[764] Oh, really?

[765] I couldn't, I could not pass Spanish and you had to have it to get into UCLA and I just had to fucking cheat.

[766] That was, I had tried it and it failed three times and I was like, okay, I got to print up a little tiny piece of paper and bring it to the test.

[767] And I did.

[768] Oh, yeah.

[769] The scratch paper was the best way to cheat.

[770] And I actually, because you could write all the answers out.

[771] I didn't feel guilty at all either.

[772] left going like, I did what absolutely needed to be done.

[773] Yeah.

[774] I mean, it is, it's essentially wrong.

[775] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[776] Of course.

[777] I did, as we already talked about, I was like, ugh, this is the, I can't do this.

[778] So I hate it.

[779] Yeah.

[780] So I was like, so it doesn't matter what I do to get by.

[781] Yeah.

[782] This is why I should have just gone straight to, you know, a conservatory for acting or something or done something else.

[783] Now, you did play college football, right?

[784] Is that the time?

[785] Not, yes, but not what.

[786] You were a walk on.

[787] Yeah.

[788] So.

[789] even know what that really means there are some teams have a uh you can just join a team and they're like okay put these pads on we'll see how you do a practice okay and guys some guys would be there this is the rudy story basically basically yes but some guys would you would you would you could see them they'd show up and they'd be and then one practice and they'd leave that would be oh okay and i stayed for two years but you were the good looking six foot four rudy uh thank you what were you when you were when you were in college what were your dimensions what did you weigh you were a tight end tight end and i was i remember getting on the scale naked and i was 2 .45 godd for real and i had 6 % body oh my god were you doing steroids or anything no oh no you weren't no no if you with what do you weigh right now 2 16 to 18 around 245 of muscle that those were the i did i were you eating six or seven steaks for breakfast i was i was eating nonstop.

[790] You are.

[791] And because you were practicing twice a day and you were lifting weights and on top of doing school and all that stuff.

[792] I'm so intimidated.

[793] And I was bad.

[794] I mean, I was not cookies and stuff.

[795] Oh, we ate.

[796] Yes, I ate.

[797] It was, it was, you're also young enough that you almost you can eat anything.

[798] Yeah.

[799] Would you go to sizzler?

[800] No, come on.

[801] Oh, I would.

[802] Unless I would like to, I would go to Denny's.

[803] No, there wasn't a sizzler near my school.

[804] Are you the voice of Denny's?

[805] I would like to be.

[806] Oh, okay.

[807] And Sizzler.

[808] No, but there was guy, but the two guys ahead of me. There was also other guys ahead.

[809] So I was like, I was the funny guy on the sideline.

[810] Okay.

[811] That's a good role to have, though.

[812] Yeah, I could.

[813] I killed at Skit Night.

[814] Uh -huh.

[815] I mean, the respect the players gave me after Skit Night, I was like, oh, all right.

[816] When did you meet Sarah?

[817] After college?

[818] No, I met her once when I was a freshman in college, and she was a senior.

[819] Oh.

[820] I was walking home from football practice and we had a mutual friend at 2 .45 hunched over because I had just pounded, ran into enormous men for two and a half hours.

[821] And Sarah's first, she was at Kim O 'Neill, who was our mutual friend, a woman I went to high school with and a close friend of Sarah's that just happened.

[822] And she introduced us, but she was like, who's that guy who looks like he's injured and slumped over and with the worst posture?

[823] Who's that old young man?

[824] She's ever seen.

[825] And then I didn't really meet her until three years later.

[826] But prior to meeting her, when you're on the football team and you're a big stud and you're funny, do you have an appetite for ladies in those first couple years of college?

[827] Not really.

[828] Really?

[829] I wasn't that guy.

[830] You weren't.

[831] How do you explain that?

[832] I just, like, so I was in a fraternity for three or four horrible months.

[833] I met one guy really liked.

[834] But I was not that.

[835] just like I it's these parties would happen at the I would always like I got to get out of here I was just disgusted with that the scene oh yeah it's this is I know that some people love it and and good I guess good fat but it just was uh I was always be like I'm going and I just spent a lot of time in church so oh you did yeah I grew up Catholic or something grew up Catholic but then I uh came a Presbyterian and to this day I still am you converted yourself in college from Catholic Presby school.

[836] Yeah, my parents were thrilled.

[837] That's an weird act of rebellion.

[838] It is.

[839] There was a lot going on.

[840] I'm no longer eating the sacrament, guys.

[841] Yeah, I'm not going on.

[842] Now I see it symbolically.

[843] And it is no longer.

[844] Very weird.

[845] Did you have a good friend who introduced you to their church?

[846] And you're like, hey, check out my church camp.

[847] And then it bit you.

[848] Because you do recognize most kids are just trying to avoid church altogether.

[849] They're not searching out another church.

[850] I still, to this day, when it's Sunday morning, I'm like, ugh, church.

[851] I don't.

[852] Then you go.

[853] Then I go.

[854] But then, like, a couple friends would take me to, like, a mega church, which I hated.

[855] Okay.

[856] People like, see, we can dance.

[857] I was like, nope, not doing that.

[858] I loved the ritual.

[859] This is too fun.

[860] I don't want anything to do with that.

[861] Yeah, I was like, it should be suffering.

[862] I was like, these people are standing and jumping up and down.

[863] Their arms are in the air.

[864] I hated all that.

[865] Okay.

[866] I was, and so.

[867] How did you find your own church, though?

[868] It was like the Presbyterian church was like kind of a happy medium.

[869] Oh, okay.

[870] But did someone introduce you to it or you just kind of cold calling?

[871] In college, there was one across the street.

[872] And you just walked in because it was close.

[873] It was close.

[874] There was a lot of, I knew a lot of people that it was, you know, like that campus, it was quite a mixture of folks.

[875] So I knew they were going there.

[876] And you were just bored with the Catholic Church?

[877] Are you doing?

[878] No, I disagree.

[879] I mean, I really think they do need to have women priests.

[880] And that just should be a thing.

[881] Sure.

[882] I always disagreed with that.

[883] And, but I always liked the ritual.

[884] It's an ancient ritual.

[885] But, but, but, but, my brother is an Episcopalian, uh, priest.

[886] And so he is.

[887] So he basically, you go right up to almost being a Catholic, but then you can marry and have children.

[888] That's healthy.

[889] Yes.

[890] Absolutely.

[891] And, uh, and so my wife, uh, she went to that Presbyterian church.

[892] So that's kind of, that's, uh, so I was like, oh, we'll do that.

[893] And when you were shopping for a, Was it important to you that she was also religious?

[894] Yeah, probably.

[895] Yes, definitely.

[896] Because, you know, that's, it helps to have that common.

[897] Well, because you're going to raise kids together and obviously you're going to want to raise them.

[898] And I still got, which people when I tell them, they're like, what?

[899] But you say fuck.

[900] And I go, I'm a little shocked by it.

[901] Everyone's always shocked by it.

[902] But I like it.

[903] Look, dude, I go to AA, which is not where I. I was hoping to go when I was growing up.

[904] So, fuck it.

[905] I can't be very judgmental of any group that people join.

[906] A church too in a way.

[907] Well, it's higher power, baby.

[908] We like to say it's not the winners club.

[909] It's not where all the winners congregate.

[910] It's not like people are like, I did it.

[911] Now let's join this group.

[912] Well, you're at the lowest point.

[913] Yeah, but it is the winners in that you made the decision.

[914] Oh, sure.

[915] It ends up being a winner's club.

[916] You're not.

[917] I was walking.

[918] I was walking with my nine -year -old to Starbucks from school.

[919] Starbucks.

[920] And it's this guy who was talking to himself and limping along.

[921] He walked past us and it said on it.

[922] He had clearly gotten, I don't know where he got, but just said world class junkie on his coat.

[923] That's pretty great.

[924] I want to know that guy.

[925] But I was like, that's not the guy that went.

[926] I should probably stop doing this.

[927] Right.

[928] Who knows?

[929] Maybe he's like 20 years sober.

[930] Maybe the other version of him is actually even worse.

[931] Yeah.

[932] But it does show that when human beings can, like, yourself can get off that.

[933] It shows an incredible level of evolution and intelligence.

[934] Well, to me, it becomes my, do you listen to Sam Harris's podcast by chance?

[935] No, I've never listened.

[936] It's all I talk about.

[937] It's awesome.

[938] But he kind of, he's a neurologist and he's, he is a proponent of this no self -will theory, right?

[939] He doesn't believe people really have ultimately self -will because you have so much biochemistry that's making so many decisions really for you and a bunch of other things.

[940] all that to say my kind of proof against that is my personal is like oh yeah i'm i'm definitely bioengineered to be an alcoholic i'm like you know ninth generation every one of my family ends up getting sober uh i was molested that almost guarantees you're going to be an addict all those things would definitely guarantee that it was going to happen but despite all that you can kind of redirect so then how does he answer for that i don't know i got to i got to get in front of him god have been asked that question before i've yet to hear it raised but i it's what i always think when I'm listening to it's like yes you certainly are predisposed to all kinds of you know a suite of behavior but but people are regularly breaking out of that I feel like yeah I mean like everyone has heard way too much about me but like a kamikaze pilot is doing something yes there's no way your bio engineered to crash a fucking airport at Mitsubishi and do we do all sorts of stuff that is is counter to what yes to our health and listen this guy's one of the smartest guys in the world he would have tons of answers for us but I don't know how he would say something.

[941] They've been pre -conditioned and brainwashed to a point where...

[942] Well, I think he just also means they're born into a circumstance.

[943] Like, we don't choose some of these initial circumstances replaced.

[944] Well, weirdly, yeah, the Kamikazebler might be a great example of how there is in freeway.

[945] Right, exactly.

[946] Why the fuck would someone choose to do that if some other...

[947] You have to volunteer.

[948] You had to be...

[949] No one was ever chosen to do.

[950] They had to volunteer.

[951] Yeah, but you could say the pressure to volunteer.

[952] But then you could say, why didn't every pilot in the Japanese Air Force do that?

[953] Right.

[954] And then he'd say, oh.

[955] Oh, because their testosterone levels were such that they would have never made that decision, thus proving that, you know, had the guy been born with less testosterone, that wouldn't have been his destiny.

[956] So did he really have a dead is, whatever.

[957] What I really want to know, though, from you is that you, because you're dyslexic, I love Jesus.

[958] And you came out here late.

[959] I want to know about the lows.

[960] So you had community, right?

[961] When you were on community in the soup, you must have been, your self -esteem is through the roof, right?

[962] You're like, I'm so gainfully employed.

[963] I'm not terrified anymore.

[964] Yeah, no, I was, I was very, you know, like, okay, it's working.

[965] And also I was spoiled on especially, well, I had done three pilots that I'll never went anywhere.

[966] Okay.

[967] Before that.

[968] And so, but I always, I didn't know the difference between, I was like, well, you do a pilot and you hope it gets picked up and then it usually doesn't.

[969] Uh -huh.

[970] And then one did.

[971] But then with the soup, because as you know, you audition for a thousand different things, thousands of things.

[972] And I just counted it as like, well, here's another audition I'm going under today.

[973] And I'll do that.

[974] And there's that.

[975] And then when it got on the air, I never did a pilot.

[976] I had a five minute pilot presentation.

[977] And they went, great.

[978] All right, we'll try this out.

[979] And there was no launch.

[980] There was no nothing.

[981] So it was a very, ultimately a very good way.

[982] to get on TV where they're on we're going to put it on Friday night for four weeks and we'll see.

[983] And so and at that point it was like, oh, it's on E it's not on a Friday night.

[984] The world's not tuning in to the first episode of the second season of lost.

[985] Right.

[986] And so it was But can you bring up a great point?

[987] I think there's a perception from the outside of Hollywood that we're actually choosing where we're going to end up.

[988] And that's just an illusion.

[989] Like I literally was in a final callback to replace the blues clues guy at the same time I was getting punk like it was going to go either I was either going to be on punked or blues clues you know whoever would have right and you would have yeah fuck yes I would have you're taking penniless for 10 years I would have yeah I would have blown blue yes to get on blues clues so I just want to point that out that like yeah I someone might think like why why did you do the soup or why did you do community you know why did I do punk what you know whatever do you do whatever the fuck they throw your way right yes when you find something that's, when community comes up, and I read that script and was one of the first pilot scripts, I was like, this one's really good.

[990] I know I can do this.

[991] This is the one I'm going after.

[992] I went and did a network test and they were like, you didn't get it.

[993] Oh, really?

[994] Yeah.

[995] And then Joe Russo and Anthony Russo and Dan Harmon, he's like, do you mind if you all executives leave and we're going to put them on camera and then you can watch that?

[996] Ah.

[997] And I sat around for another four hours.

[998] So how nice of them.

[999] Aren't you great for all that they.

[1000] Oh my gosh.

[1001] I'm going over to Joe's house tonight.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] Sometimes people take that time.

[1004] changes your fucking life.

[1005] Yes.

[1006] They literally changed my life on the day.

[1007] But I think people think because like, well, you're married to a movie star.

[1008] You're a movie star.

[1009] You have a house that you can you're like demolish.

[1010] Right.

[1011] It was like I showed up with we showed up.

[1012] I think my wife had a job and that's why we could get an apartment.

[1013] Right.

[1014] I had no money and I worked at Larchmont wine and cheese when I got here.

[1015] So which I love going into.

[1016] I love that place.

[1017] I made sense.

[1018] Sandwiches.

[1019] It was before the sandwiches.

[1020] They're known for their sandwiches, right?

[1021] They're known for their sandwiches.

[1022] They're a lot of sandwichments.

[1023] You're a part of that rich history.

[1024] I'm a part of it.

[1025] Yes.

[1026] There are people that come along in your life that are cheerleaders and that help you.

[1027] Yes.

[1028] And it's hard to accept help, isn't it?

[1029] Because I'm starting embarrassed.

[1030] Like, I can only imagine if in your situation they're like, hey, you didn't get it.

[1031] That's a terrible place to do some more acting, right?

[1032] I rarely have.

[1033] ever read a roll and they were like, you got it.

[1034] That stood to this day, it rarely happens.

[1035] But that never, it was because Joe and Anthony Russo and Dan I knew they wanted, they were like, we would like you, we want you for this and we're going to fight it.

[1036] We're going to fight as hard as we can.

[1037] That's so great.

[1038] And then like same thing with Gillian Jacobs.

[1039] When she came in, we all, and she read, we went, it's her.

[1040] That's the character.

[1041] It's perfect.

[1042] It's so good.

[1043] And the studio and the network was sending all sort.

[1044] They were like, no, okay, it's not the, we don't read.

[1045] And then they were sending all these other people and we're like, it's her.

[1046] It's her.

[1047] It's her.

[1048] It's her.

[1049] It's her.

[1050] And she didn't get the role until we were doing the table read.

[1051] The first table read, which was kind of mean and very mean.

[1052] And then at the table read, they're like, oh, by the way, you got it.

[1053] And she just bursts out crying.

[1054] Oh my gosh.

[1055] I'm like, yeah, what is this poor girl?

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] And have you seen love?

[1058] Have you watched love?

[1059] No. But if it's any consolation, I haven't watched love, uh, glow or Atlanta.

[1060] Oh, Jesus.

[1061] Do you watch anything?

[1062] So when I had the flu, I got through the first two seasons, because my friend said, I'm going to stop being your friend unless you watch the first two seasons of Fargo.

[1063] Oh, my God.

[1064] Isn't it fucking awesome?

[1065] It's magical.

[1066] It is.

[1067] I was so, I was like, when I watched this episode, that means there's only going to be this many episodes left.

[1068] I mean, the addict in me is in a panic from the first episode.

[1069] I'm like, it's so good, I can never get enough of this.

[1070] What am I going to do?

[1071] every, every season.

[1072] Oh, it's incredible.

[1073] I made the mistake of watching the third season while I was editing chips.

[1074] And I just was watching the show and I thought, well, so they were basically given probably the same amount of money I was given for this film to do 10 episodes.

[1075] And every episode is 10 times as good as any movie I've seen in the last 10 years.

[1076] Like, this is just an embarrassment to the film industry, this show, because the set designs flawless.

[1077] It's shot beautifully.

[1078] Everything is so meticulously.

[1079] And that part of it.

[1080] The, The music is perfect.

[1081] And she's singing to her kid in that one little scene in the second season.

[1082] That's the song that Holly Hunter was singing in Raising Arizona.

[1083] But, I mean, that guy is.

[1084] Noah Hawley, is that his name?

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] But you could also, like I remember Spielberg was interviewed 10 years ago.

[1087] And he's like, well, I still haven't done a movie as good as the godfather.

[1088] And I was like, wow.

[1089] It's good to know, right?

[1090] Everyone's good to know that everyone can take a shit on themselves.

[1091] Yeah.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] So did you have, because I had a big chip on my shoulder about coming off of punk.

[1094] I had this fear that everyone thought, oh, he's just a reality actor or whatever the fuck I thought, right?

[1095] Right.

[1096] Did you have a hang up about being off of the soup when you started community?

[1097] I never thought I would go into hosting.

[1098] I had never planned on it.

[1099] Sure.

[1100] And I had never done it.

[1101] Right.

[1102] And then.

[1103] And you had to read a teleprompter.

[1104] And I had to read a teleprompter.

[1105] But for the audition, I just memorized all the words.

[1106] Oh, so it didn't matter that it was even rolling.

[1107] And how did you get comfortable with the prompter?

[1108] Are you now comfortable with it?

[1109] Uh, or do you, do they know how to do it for you?

[1110] Like, where they minimize the words or they make sure.

[1111] Oh, I, there was not, it took me four hours to get through 20 minutes of jokes.

[1112] Okay.

[1113] When the soup first started.

[1114] Uh -huh.

[1115] And it was, I would ruin almost every setup.

[1116] And if the punchline went really well and people were laughing, I would get anxiety because I'm like, don't mess up this set up yeah and I would be very gingerly talking through the setup you could see our executive producer k v. Anderson going like he was like a dad trying like watching you ride a bicycle yeah yes oh okay there you go and uh uh so there's always anxiety tied to it and then the thing that helped me more than anything was starting to do the shows live.

[1117] And so they were like, it's live.

[1118] And you had to do it right.

[1119] You cannot screw it.

[1120] I mean, you can, you will screw it up, which I did a lot.

[1121] But then I was like, I'm going headlong into this.

[1122] And I'm going to say, I have dyslexia.

[1123] I'm doing the show live.

[1124] I don't know how it's going to go.

[1125] That kind of dissipated it a bit.

[1126] And then when I did, now I'm bragging, the White House correspondence dinner, never have I been more nervous.

[1127] By the way, what a scary job to take on.

[1128] I applaud anyone.

[1129] who can do that.

[1130] That's terrifying.

[1131] Yes, I was terrified.

[1132] I remember when you did it, I was like, fucking good on you, mate.

[1133] I mean, that's a big swing.

[1134] I worked very hard to make it.

[1135] I think I was at that one weirdly.

[1136] You might have been.

[1137] I don't know.

[1138] I didn't.

[1139] I'm only gone once, but I feel like it was you.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] I mean, we seem to be living parallel life.

[1142] So why wouldn't I have been there?

[1143] Everything.

[1144] Why don't I ride motorcycle?

[1145] You do.

[1146] That's the thing.

[1147] You'll hop on one of mine and you'll go, oh my God, I just know how to do this.

[1148] And then I hurt myself.

[1149] Ryan Hanson did, right?

[1150] No, he hasn't been hurt, yeah.

[1151] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1152] He's on a dirt bike excursion, which he had no business being on.

[1153] I saw it.

[1154] When I did his show, I was like, are you fucking, what are you doing?

[1155] You did that show.

[1156] You didn't know Ryan yet, right?

[1157] No. And then you're like, who knows what that fucking shows on?

[1158] It's on YouTube read.

[1159] Yeah, Ryan Hanson's the script and it was so funny that I was like, oh, this is great.

[1160] So that's awesome.

[1161] I think, I think when I heard that you had done that show, not knowing him, I just made me like you even more.

[1162] The fact that you would have taken the time to read it and go, oh, this, you know This deserves someone to support this.

[1163] I didn't think about support.

[1164] I thought, if the script's good, I'm going to do it.

[1165] That's a great edict to have.

[1166] Yeah, I was like, if it's funny, this will be funny.

[1167] You played Ryan.

[1168] Yes.

[1169] That's why he lost the role of his own show to you.

[1170] So this is how funny this episode was.

[1171] So he's playing an actor that's playing a cop that is investigating crimes on television.

[1172] That's the name of the show.

[1173] And they decided because of low ratings, even though they pointed out it was on the internet.

[1174] that it was on YouTube, that ratings didn't really matter, that he was fired, and I was hired as him.

[1175] In the reality show.

[1176] Right, but in his contract, he had to appear in every scene.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] So they cast him as an extra in everything.

[1179] In the Ryan Hanson's in his own show.

[1180] And then in one scene were at a party, and he's dressed in his party down outfit, which was uninted, he's like, oh, I can't believe this.

[1181] he was like in meta on meta yeah and and people were like hey that's a really funny bit you're doing how you're dressed as your old character he's like oh they just gave me this bowtie it was yeah so anyways did you have a hang up about the soup that's what i'm curious about oh so the hang up was at the time we're like hey this is working would you like you know we'd like you to do red carpets and i'm like i'm not doing any of that right yeah well because you keep you're keep trying to feel out like what's the point that i can't now return to being an actor right that's the fear yes and if you're on a red carpet now that you're getting even closer to probably never be interviewing the people that I would like to do acting because yeah yeah I wouldn't do that I didn't do that I wanted to make that show daily at one point I was like we're not making it because then that's that's that's that's it yeah they'll never act again right so I resisted that my thing was like I need to not I want to do things that are not seen as hosting right so I can do both when you were doing press though I would imagine for the first season of community you're getting a ton of soup questions right and is that that triggering you at all because that that's where I would I would really be at my worst is like no I was okay because I knew that that's what was it was working right who knows if this if this show was going to work yeah and so I try and the E would always be like well he's going on another talk show to talk about community I'm like don't worry and every time I was like the soup's going to come up a thousand times right and and and it did and but so so I didn't annoy me But it, I was more like, yep, that's, I totally love it.

[1182] That's the thing I do.

[1183] But this new thing I'm doing.

[1184] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1185] Wait till you see it.

[1186] Yeah.

[1187] But it was funny.

[1188] Like, even with soup and community viewers, they pretty, they were kind of separate.

[1189] Right.

[1190] The soup was women between like 20 and 40 and this community for a long time.

[1191] And then it changed was like men 14 to 30.

[1192] Oh, yeah.

[1193] So opposite.

[1194] Yeah, it was like we.

[1195] And then, and then community became much more universally kind of why.

[1196] by not the world but but by men and women but but i think people would be shocked and even the few people we've talked to on here uh i think people would be shocked about how fluid you have to be with your uh identity with your what what path you think you're on how open you have to be if you want to find yourself employed in any capacity there have been long periods of times where i'm not getting offered any acting jobs and i go oh okay this is i got to pick up my writing game so i'll just write a ton right yeah and and then that maybe we'll use something, then I'll end up acting again for a while or all, you know.

[1197] So I think, I think it's good that, you know, people realize you didn't sit down and map out this crazy trajectory.

[1198] No. Which is ultimately landed with you owning a home, which is all really, we're all trying to do, right?

[1199] Is, yeah, provide a place for our children to sleep.

[1200] Yes.

[1201] And not waking up, bolting awake at night going like, what am I going to do?

[1202] What am I going to do?

[1203] Yes.

[1204] I mean, I still do that.

[1205] For the last year, I've been unemployed.

[1206] And so, yeah, and what was, that's what I want to know about is, is how.

[1207] during that period, which is fucking terrifying, and you have a family, and Sarah no longer works, does she?

[1208] She sells her art, which does okay.

[1209] Oh, okay.

[1210] But I didn't mean to, in any way, diminish Sarah's accomplishment.

[1211] So in that period of a year where you have to be terrified, or unless you're not human, which you don't eat three days a week, so maybe you're not.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] What are you telling yourself to comfort yourself?

[1214] How do you navigate that year?

[1215] I go, well, I know how I can bring in an income is through stand -up.

[1216] Right.

[1217] So I was like, this is what I'll do on weekends.

[1218] When you go do stand up on the weekends, are you doing a couple shows in a city?

[1219] I do four shows in a city.

[1220] It's funny to see which city is like, oh, this city's not selling.

[1221] You shouldn't go there.

[1222] And then other cities like, yeah, it's been sold out for a month.

[1223] That's crazy, right?

[1224] It's very strange.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] And also, you're getting kind of a real -time evaluation of your appeal regionally, which has got to be a roller coaster ride.

[1227] Well, like, even being gone from the soup, the soup ended two years ago, and this new show came on and people go, oh, he's copy.

[1228] being Daniel Tosh.

[1229] Oh.

[1230] And I was like, wow, that's the length of memory.

[1231] The half -life of a...

[1232] Yeah, you go, oh, they don't even, no one even remembers I was ever.

[1233] Doing 12 years of it on E, no one, it didn't even cross their minds.

[1234] So, yeah, so it's, that was crazy.

[1235] Because as you saw with some, with some audiences, it fades away.

[1236] Uh -huh.

[1237] That's scary, right?

[1238] But then as soon as this new show got announced, uh -huh, like they went, yeah, Houston sold out, Dallas is sold out.

[1239] Columbus sold out and I was like oh well then what's how does it's it's it's so stupid and wonderful but it's when it rains it pours yeah and when it's yeah when it's not so so in your to your answer your question yes a lot of insecurity of what am I going to do next yeah and will I be able to provide and do I or do I am I moving back to Seattle yeah and does that does that manifest itself in that you're like rough to be around for Sarah?

[1240] Is there?

[1241] I think it's rough in the me leaving all the time.

[1242] Me leaving on Friday morning and returning Sunday morning.

[1243] And that's a lonely being on the road doing stand -up.

[1244] You have lonely?

[1245] Not, no. Because you're married and have kids.

[1246] I'm married and have kids.

[1247] Well, I get on a plane and I sleep for the, you know, however.

[1248] And then I get to the hotel and then I take another nap and then I'm in front of people.

[1249] And then I go and then I'm right back on a plane back.

[1250] So that's, it's not like a road comic who's like I got shows from Wednesday to Sunday.

[1251] Yeah, that's...

[1252] And you're spending all day in some city you don't know.

[1253] I love being in these cities I don't know because I can spend one day kind of looking around.

[1254] And then like in Dallas two weeks ago, I was like, there's where Kennedy was shot.

[1255] I've never seen that.

[1256] Texas book exchange.

[1257] Is that what is it?

[1258] The book depository.

[1259] The book depository.

[1260] And then they have the pool where he had sex with a virgin.

[1261] So, you know, they showed that.

[1262] There's a whole museum to that.

[1263] He may well have had sex with a virgin in Texas, but that's not the one I was referencing.

[1264] But it's like, even with this.

[1265] show.

[1266] We've done three.

[1267] We have, tell me the name of your new show.

[1268] The Joel McHale show with Joel McCale.

[1269] Oh, that's great.

[1270] Let's get that name in there twice.

[1271] That's what I want to close out on is I had a terrible head injury wakeboarding where I had amnesia for about 18 hours and I now regularly obsess about the fact that I'm going to have CTE or whatever.

[1272] It's called you played football.

[1273] Yes.

[1274] Are you terrified?

[1275] No, because I already had seven concussions and a skull fracture before I played college football.

[1276] Yeah, so it's almost certain that you're going to.

[1277] Yeah, I have to.

[1278] Yeah, do you think about it and is there anything you can do to get screened or there's nothing you can do, I don't think.

[1279] Right.

[1280] It's just a degenerative brain condition, right?

[1281] They can't die, I don't think they can can they die?

[1282] They must not be able to because all these NFL players who commit suicide they donate their brains to that.

[1283] No, it scares my wife because I won't remember anything, but I said this is how I've always been.

[1284] But then I realized all those injuries happen.

[1285] But football was different.

[1286] I never actually got a concussion playing football, which is miraculous.

[1287] But every day after football, I would feel slightly drunk.

[1288] You would.

[1289] I'd feel slightly like buzzed.

[1290] And I was like, oh, right, that's what happens.

[1291] Oh, boy.

[1292] And what were the seven previous concussions?

[1293] Oh, a lot of me going, watch this.

[1294] And that always jumped down.

[1295] You would have said hold my beer, but you didn't drink that.

[1296] jumping down flights of stairs, but the skull fracture, I lost, I didn't, yeah, I didn't get amnesia, but I lost my short term memory.

[1297] You did.

[1298] So I could not remember one thing to the next.

[1299] Yes.

[1300] So I had that.

[1301] I was on a loop.

[1302] I was on a five minute loop.

[1303] Yes.

[1304] Yes.

[1305] And did, do you, do you have a memory of realizing in that state, oh God.

[1306] Do you know what I'm saying?

[1307] No, I remember going, something's happening.

[1308] How did, what was the injury?

[1309] I remember going, because I rest of the day after the ski act because I have no recollection.

[1310] It was a skiing accident.

[1311] Yeah, I have no recollection because I collided with someone.

[1312] This is what I'm told by Dave Johnson, who I went to high school with.

[1313] Can we trust Dave?

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] Okay.

[1316] Dave was a very nice guy.

[1317] He saved my life, basically, because then you realize when like a soldier gets blown up and they just wander into the battlefield and get shot because they don't know where they are.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] Unless somebody goes like, hey, Phil, get down.

[1320] And that was, he was my Phil.

[1321] And he was my Phil.

[1322] And he, I remember, remember, so I, this accident happened, he told me later on, he goes, you stood up and he stood up, the other guy.

[1323] And he said, are you okay?

[1324] And I said yes.

[1325] And I go, are you okay?

[1326] And he said, yes.

[1327] And then we all skied on.

[1328] Oh boy.

[1329] And then I remember the day being gray and cloudy.

[1330] And it was bright and sunny.

[1331] Okay.

[1332] Later on.

[1333] And then David said, I started talking really weird on it.

[1334] And we're sitting on a fucking chairlift.

[1335] And he's like, we're going down.

[1336] And then these flashes of me, I was like, Why, I remember going, why is there a Coke in my hand?

[1337] Uh -huh.

[1338] And this is fucking, it's getting even weirder.

[1339] Can I just say?

[1340] Crazy.

[1341] Because mine was wakeboarding.

[1342] What did you hit wakeboarding?

[1343] Did the board you?

[1344] I still did this day.

[1345] I don't know.

[1346] I'm on my buddy Dean's boat and he's got a buddy with him that I just met that day.

[1347] So I don't know the other buddy, right?

[1348] So Dean's driving the boat.

[1349] I crash.

[1350] It's a bad crash.

[1351] I get into the boat and they go, are you okay?

[1352] And I go, yeah, I just feel like I got punched in the face pretty hard.

[1353] And then I am, now Dean gets in.

[1354] to go away boarding.

[1355] So you have no real memory of the actual...

[1356] No, the actual impact.

[1357] But so Dean's buddy, who I just met that, they starts driving the boat.

[1358] Now Dean's, you know, on a 40 -foot rope behind the boat.

[1359] So I all of a sudden kind of come to on a lake.

[1360] And I know I live in L .A. And I'm looking at a stranger driving a ski boat.

[1361] And I'm yelling to this guy, where the fuck am I?

[1362] And he's like, what?

[1363] And I'm like, how am I on a lake?

[1364] Who are you?

[1365] And so he realizes, okay, there's trouble.

[1366] He stops the boat.

[1367] Dean gets in.

[1368] I do recognize Dean.

[1369] they take me to my mother we're driving to the hospital and I say why am I in Michigan oh you're home for my birthday okay why can't I remember that you hit your head wakeboarding and I go okay so it's like that episode of Gilligan's Island where you get hit and head with a coconut and I just need to get hit in the head with a coconut again no laughing I go that's pretty funny to say considering my head hurts have I already said that and my mom goes yeah honey you've said that about 30 times the same joke And in that moment, I realized, oh, my God, my brain's broken.

[1370] And I start bawling.

[1371] And I go, I'm just so happy.

[1372] I'm with the two women who love me as well, make sure I'm okay.

[1373] Because I was with my girlfriend and in my mom.

[1374] Wow.

[1375] And then I'm crying.

[1376] I'm bawling.

[1377] And then I go, why am I in Michigan?

[1378] Make the same coconut joke again.

[1379] And you burst out crying again.

[1380] No, I only cried the one time.

[1381] Once my brain unswalled, I remembered everything that had happened.

[1382] Do you are embarrassed that you whisked out like that?

[1383] how's what what way oh because I cried yes I'm humiliated no in fact my parents did the opposite which is they thought it was hysterical that I couldn't remember anything my parents were laughing they were like because I walked in me like can I buy your turtleneck dad you'd be like no ask me again okay you believe this guy can you imagine if your kids were on a loop can you imagine if one of your boys was on a loop my parents took me to a dinner party that night and I am not kidding you I am so serious.

[1384] I believe you.

[1385] We were going to move to Minnesota, and my parents decided not to, and all the neighbors were going to throw a surprise party.

[1386] My mom and dad, and it was that they were just going to go to someone's house, but they didn't realize the whole neighborhood had gathered.

[1387] And then my parents were like, we can't go.

[1388] Joel fucked up his head.

[1389] He can't remember anything.

[1390] It's hilarious.

[1391] And they were like, well, then they were like, okay, look, it was a surprise party.

[1392] We're happy you're staying.

[1393] Can you just bring them?

[1394] And they did.

[1395] And I went downstairs and played with this guy named Danny Rooney.

[1396] And we played G .I .J. Joe for like four hours apparently.

[1397] And I'm in like a 15 year old at this point.

[1398] And Dan, this little kid basically.

[1399] He can recognize.

[1400] He was just like, what's going on with Joel?

[1401] He's repeating.

[1402] He was like, and here comes Cobra Kai again.

[1403] And then I came out of it.

[1404] How long did it take you to come out of the loop?

[1405] I probably hit my head at noon.

[1406] And I was at the hospital.

[1407] I had a cat scan.

[1408] And then things started becoming, I was starting to remember that day.

[1409] And we left the hospital.

[1410] It was like 1 .30 in the morning.

[1411] Okay.

[1412] So I guess it was about 13 hours.

[1413] I just remember if I was alone skiing, I would have just skied off into.

[1414] Oblivion.

[1415] I would be somewhere in the Cascade Mountains, just fucking frozen somewhere.

[1416] I mean, it would have been, that's the thing that I was like, if Dave Johnson was, I was like that was one of those critical moments of my life where Dave saved my life.

[1417] Can I ask a question before we wrap up?

[1418] It's for both of you.

[1419] Back to the Henry Ford stuff?

[1420] Yeah, racism.

[1421] Where we're at on a Henry Ford.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] No. No, because you guys both had this dyslexia, which would be considered probably a defect in some way, and then you both grew up to have these amazing lives and all these awesome things happen, would you?

[1424] And you look the way, you look great.

[1425] Oh, my God, you look so good.

[1426] This is going.

[1427] I love this podcast.

[1428] So, you know, there's this CRISPR.

[1429] Have you heard of CRISPR?

[1430] It's like a genetic.

[1431] Gene editing.

[1432] Oh, I thought you meant the stuff they put on lettuce that's getting old.

[1433] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1434] No. Here's the thing where you said dyslexia is a defect.

[1435] which is they is not that there was a reason why people were dyslexic way back when.

[1436] Is that so this perfect analogy that this psychiatrist said, so bees, they're all set up differently when they're born.

[1437] And there's the worker bees.

[1438] There's the queen.

[1439] And then there's the bees that fly and go look for pollen.

[1440] And when you, when those bees come back and do that little dance and those bees go like, that bee found all this stuff.

[1441] We're going to that tree.

[1442] We're going to that bush.

[1443] We're going to that rhododendron.

[1444] And we're getting all the pollen.

[1445] we'll come back the hive will be will continue to live if you drip the drug like ADHD drugs on those those bees that fly back they stop leaving the nest oh and so that sort of scattered part of our brain that goes well ADHD or this where we can't seem we can't get it right there was a reason for it and they think there's a they think part ADHD was probably like there was We needed scouts to go out and see, you know, go see what there was.

[1446] Yeah, you just could not sit in camp any longer and tell these stories.

[1447] Because if you were told, oh, for the rest of your life, you're going to sit at a desk and you're going to do this one job, you would be like, I'm going to end my life because that's not something I could ever imagine doing.

[1448] Or prison.

[1449] So it's either this life or prison for people in our situation, probably.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] Well, and there is a great chapter.

[1452] Did you read those Malcolm Gladwell books?

[1453] There's a chapter on dyslexics.

[1454] It was long known that people who were dyslexic had like two times as likely to end up in prison, but wasn't known until recently is that you're also two times likely to be a CEO of a company, right?

[1455] That was the part that they didn't know.

[1456] Right.

[1457] So that's where I was going.

[1458] If you could choose for your kids to have it, would you?

[1459] Yes.

[1460] When we had girls, I weirdly found myself going, I think I'd want one of them to be dyslexic weirdly.

[1461] You know?

[1462] Or I'm left -handed, which is an impairment of some variety, I suppose.

[1463] I'm left -handed.

[1464] Get the fuck out of your little universes are not supposed to be happening.

[1465] But I throw right.

[1466] Me too.

[1467] I throw right -handed and I kick right -handed.

[1468] I kick right and I throw right.

[1469] But I eat left -handed and I eat left -handed.

[1470] And if I try to eat right -handed, I will stab myself in the eye.

[1471] That's what I brush teeth left.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] Yeah, me too.

[1474] If I was like, if all my abilities were in one arm, then I could have played in the NFL.

[1475] Yes.

[1476] I was like, oh, if I just.

[1477] By the way, if we were in the market for a wife swap, I can't imagine a better pairing for you and I. We're both bringing a ton to the table But I'm worried about the pinworms Oh, yeah, she told that story on your show That's what, because you were like...

[1478] You know you're cute when you can tell a fucking pinworm story in public If people still love you I mean, if there was ever a test of her appeal Talking about buttworms Yeah, she inspired the audience Including the president of Netflix Who was like, I had pinworms Oh, Jesus, it was happy You were a loser if you didn't have butt worms That's basically what it was People like, oh, I bet it's fun to itch there.

[1479] Well, but in the backstory really quick, because she was on your show and she was very honest about the family getting pinworms, right?

[1480] The girls got it at school and then Chris was based on this, the commercial we showed that a guy goes, he sees a pretty girl and he sits down at a bench and he immediately jumps up and then it says got roids.

[1481] Oh, okay.

[1482] But yeah.

[1483] But when she, what she probably left out of that story is that she goes, you know, so the girls have pinworm.

[1484] You know, so that's why they've been niching their butt a lot lately.

[1485] Uh, you know, Does your ass itch?

[1486] And I'm like, yes, since I was born.

[1487] Like how the fuck what I know if I am?

[1488] It's an anus.

[1489] Isn't it just itchy?

[1490] It's always.

[1491] Isn't it the natural state of an anus is to be itchy?

[1492] Yes.

[1493] Yeah, so it's foul.

[1494] It's, you know.

[1495] I always like to end on talking about itching our assholes.

[1496] And I want to explore off air.

[1497] I've only had jock itch and that was no fun.

[1498] Yeah.

[1499] That think, I don't know what I was like, that's one of those things.

[1500] Like, thank God I live today.

[1501] because all it took was a couple of applications of ointment.

[1502] Yeah, a little lotriman, some kind of an antifungal.

[1503] Or to this day, I'd probably just be like, yeah, it all just shriveled away because of jock.

[1504] You had torn a hole and stuff.

[1505] I had strep throat three or back in November.

[1506] And I was like, what happened to people who had strep throat?

[1507] They're like, oh, they all, they died a horrible, horrible death.

[1508] The infection went throughout them and their throat just disintegrated on them.

[1509] And it was a terrible death.

[1510] But now, take this little pack of pills.

[1511] You'll be fine tomorrow.

[1512] You don't even have to skip the gym.

[1513] Yeah, I didn't.

[1514] Well, Joe, I hope off.

[1515] I hope off air you and I will dedicate an hour to going out to lunch and figuring out even what more we have in common.

[1516] Because I feel like we've just scratched the surface today.

[1517] So we've learned.

[1518] I mean, we look the same.

[1519] We look the same.

[1520] I mean, we've had more attractive, but that's not true.

[1521] You are.

[1522] You're a beast.

[1523] Then left -handed, dyslexic, major concussion.

[1524] Yep, we both.

[1525] And we love history.

[1526] Starting on, I guess, you could say, a reality.

[1527] program and then accepted as an actor.

[1528] I bought a perfectly good house and completely ruined it.

[1529] We both have 4K TVs.

[1530] We both like cars.

[1531] We both, yep.

[1532] Yeah, we love cars.

[1533] We love driving.

[1534] I'm not as bold as you to be able to drive motorcycles because I don't have a death wish.

[1535] Well, we're not going to die of old age.

[1536] No, no, no, no. No, no, you're going to drop.

[1537] I'm going to zoom off of Mulholl and.

[1538] Oh, yeah.

[1539] Yeah, riding a wheelie, screaming with a rebel yell.

[1540] Oh, yeah, and I'm going to think at the age of.

[1541] 60.

[1542] I'm going to be like, I can swim across that river.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] Yeah.

[1545] Anybody can fucking do that.

[1546] Watch this.

[1547] Goodbye.

[1548] Yeah, I have a similar thing too.

[1549] That's the problem.

[1550] The loudest voice in my head is the one screaming, you're a fucking coward.

[1551] You have that voice?

[1552] I have the, I bet you can't do that.

[1553] Oh, you can't do that?

[1554] You're fucking little coward.

[1555] What's wrong with you?

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] Is your brother older?

[1558] I have two brothers.

[1559] One older, one younger.

[1560] The other one's an electrician.

[1561] and reminded you of your cowardliness?

[1562] Well, he spends the day trying not to blow himself up.

[1563] So he's a bad ass.

[1564] When we had it, when we remodeled a house and we reconnected the power, the guy, there was two guys on the pole and the guy had the live wire and he dropped it and he hit the guy's shoulder.

[1565] And he, there was, you know, there was a crack and he was burned and he was terribly electrocuted.

[1566] Oh, my God.

[1567] He lived, but I was like.

[1568] I hope that they found that you were.

[1569] reliable for that.

[1570] Oh, I had them both killed before they'd like to call to sec. But that's what my brother installs use power.

[1571] He juggles chainsaws for a living.

[1572] Yeah, I go, how did it go today?

[1573] And he's like, I didn't die.

[1574] I made it through the day.

[1575] So I'm happy.

[1576] And you're like, oh, they made me take two episodes of my show in a row.

[1577] Usually we crank them out an hour 40.

[1578] And I'm like, yeah.

[1579] And I'm not eating that trough of scrambled eggs.

[1580] I will order them separately.

[1581] Thank you.

[1582] My life.

[1583] All right, For real, though, I love you.

[1584] Thank you for always being generous.

[1585] Thank you.

[1586] And please watch the Joel McHale show.

[1587] Oh, yeah, honestly.

[1588] And those come out weekly, right?

[1589] That's not a, that's not a season dump like their normal model.

[1590] Well, yes, that's top.

[1591] Every day, every what day?

[1592] 12 .05 on Sunday morning.

[1593] For real.

[1594] Yeah, to which I said, now why exactly?

[1595] And they went, you don't need to know how the sausages made.

[1596] Just sell the sausage.

[1597] We know what we're doing.

[1598] It's Netflix.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] And they make $9 billion.

[1601] They have an algorithm that they realize they'll get 27 % more viewers.

[1602] if it comes out at 12 .05 instead of 12 .4.

[1603] And they're right.

[1604] They figured it out.

[1605] God bless them.

[1606] That's why they picked the show up for 45 episodes.

[1607] Please watch that.

[1608] They did.

[1609] All right.

[1610] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[1611] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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