S21 E2: (2/2) [Gwenevere] Collective Power

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences, as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder.

[11] Content warnings for each episode and confidential resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes.

[12] Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[13] pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection.

[14] Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or Wondery.

[15] The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment.

[16] Thank you so much for listening.

[17] My new command was Marine Corps Base Quantico that's in northern Virginia.

[18] What has been surprising to you about that transition and being in this place of the military?

[19] I can only really speak to the Navy, but there's like overseas culture, there's West Coast culture and there's East Coast culture.

[20] What I know about the West Coast is that it's very laissez -faire, definitely more relaxed.

[21] attitude around military structure.

[22] Obviously, there's still the customs and courtesies that you must and will adhere to.

[23] It's less political.

[24] Over here on the East Coast, I'm very close to Washington, D .C., but because of that, we have a lot of heavy hitters in the military over here, a lot of really high -ranking officers and military officials.

[25] I have run in circles multiple times with people who are really high -ranking military at the Pentagon.

[26] So it is very political and a lot more uptight over here.

[27] It feels like even in other branches of the military, the closer you are to D .C., the more serious the base, so to speak.

[28] Yeah, you're next door to the boss.

[29] When I graduated from my second school in Texas, I flew home for a couple of days just to visit family.

[30] Flew back out to Texas, picked up my car from the airport, and started driving to Quantico, Virginia.

[31] My sponsor checked in with me the whole way.

[32] The sponsor that reached out to me was this really cool HM2.

[33] She was a mom.

[34] She'd been in for a while.

[35] She had actually been on a ship with one of my instructors from my time in school.

[36] I got on with her really well.

[37] Growing up in Southern California, the cost of living here is very, very high.

[38] So a lot of people that I grew up with ended up dispersing across the continental U .S. So I think I only stayed in a hotel maybe one or two nights while I was driving.

[39] And I remember that so vividly because my sponsor kept joking, you just have friends everywhere.

[40] Getting to Quantico was the first time I was in the fleet, which is what Marines and sailors will say when they go out to like their first station.

[41] They're no longer in school.

[42] So I hit the fleet.

[43] is often separate buildings for separate branches on certain bases.

[44] Quantico is not one of those.

[45] The conditions in the barracks were not great.

[46] There's a lot of mold.

[47] Sometimes during the summer, I was told that the AC would go out and people would just boil in there in the Marine barracks.

[48] My roommate was a female Marine.

[49] She was great.

[50] Love her to death.

[51] Enlisted Marines who serve as like law enforcement on base and on other platforms.

[52] All those guys also lived in our hall, way and they were very loud and disruptive because they did not have a normal work schedule like 9 to 5 and my roommate and I did.

[53] So there were a lot of polite conversations about how we had to be up for work at 6 a .m. And it was 2 a .m. and everyone else in the halls like having a party.

[54] Everyone's kind of just a normal person.

[55] Like there's people that go home to their partners and their children.

[56] There's people that go home to the barracks and they just hang out with their friends or watch movies, play video games.

[57] Just whatever stage of life you're in, like you're still there.

[58] You still clock out at the end of the day unless you're deployed or overseas in some areas.

[59] My department was run by a lot of women.

[60] Our head position in our department was held by a man. His direct subordinate was a woman.

[61] My direct boss was a woman as well and a couple others in between those two.

[62] So it was very much an environment of looking out for one another, holding each other accountable and holding ourselves accountable, that's not to say that men can't foster that same kind of environment.

[63] I do think that the person who was my direct superior at the time just with her lived experience was better suited for a safe environment for all of us working under her.

[64] But the larger picture of it is that my male counterparts did harbor very, I don't want to say sexist because it wasn't covert in a knowing way and it wasn't typically overt in a hateful way, but it still happened.

[65] I would have higher ranking male patients typically from other branches or from the same branch who just didn't know me come in and have a very big attitude and want me to treat them special or a certain way.

[66] That day that I arrived at Quantico, I met my abuser that I would go through this or deal with for the next six months.

[67] And that person was E. The sponsor that I'd been talking to was there, but I didn't know at the time that that person passes off.

[68] Sometimes they're like less desirable responsibilities to someone willing to take them up.

[69] And that was E. For the first couple of weeks, maybe a month or so that I was there, It was a super normal friend, co -worker relationship.

[70] At first, E's personality was very rough around the edges, edgy humor, but in a way that was actually funny.

[71] It wasn't just saying offensive things to be shocking.

[72] It was tastefully done, edgy humor.

[73] Seemed very much like the kind of person to go out of their way and give the shirt off of their back, because that's what they were showing me when I first met him.

[74] He only outranked me by, at the end of the ordeal, it was by one rank.

[75] But when I met him, it was by two.

[76] But he was still low enough ranking that it, like, wasn't untoward for us to have a friendly relationship with each other.

[77] I had started seeing my partner at the time.

[78] He and I started seeing each other in January of 2022.

[79] I was at Quantico and friends.

[80] with E just over two months before things started to go wrong.

[81] I was at work one day and E came up and pinned me against the wall.

[82] I wasn't immediately thinking that I was in an unsafe situation.

[83] I thought my friend and I were rough housing.

[84] Sometimes we would walk up to each other and trip each other in the hallway, pull on each other's scrub cap so that they would have to go, like get a new one and replace it or grab someone's hand if they have gloves on.

[85] I thought at first that that was what was happening.

[86] And I was not correct.

[87] He had me pinned up against the wall and he went to grab my breasts under my shirt.

[88] And I pushed him away from me. He was laughing.

[89] And I asked him why he thought that was funny or what's wrong with him.

[90] And he totally blew it off.

[91] He was like, nothing.

[92] Like, I'm just joking around with you.

[93] You take everything too serious.

[94] That should have been the moment where I said, no, this is not.

[95] playful behavior, this is not okay, gotten someone and had everything resolved right then.

[96] I look back on that moment and I don't feel any responsibility for it.

[97] I do wish that I had not had so much grace for him knowing what I know now.

[98] That happened sometime in early February of 2022.

[99] After that incident, it became almost a daily occurrence where if E was in the clinic and I was also there, I knew that something would happen.

[100] If I was not able to keep myself as visible on other days, there would be times where we had to sort records.

[101] I would have to do patient notes.

[102] I would be doing a breakdown or isolation of my treatment room that I was assigned to.

[103] And E would come find me and continue the behavior of pushing me up against walls or grabbing onto me from behind, groping at my breasts under my shirt, trying to put his hands down the front of my pants.

[104] And it was very humiliating.

[105] Even throughout all of the abuse that did happen in the workplace with E, he would also pester me, like, you are going to let me have sex with you before I leave.

[106] I kept telling him, no, that's not going to happen, I'm in this relationship, I'm in love with this person, I don't like you, and we are not going to have sex.

[107] I felt like at that point, because of things that I was starting to notice in the command, having now been there for a couple of months, I did not feel like if I reported this, it would be taken seriously, there was a similar situation happening at one of our satellite clinics, and that individual who was perpetrating those acts was not removed from the population of their fellow sailors and Marines.

[108] They were put on restriction, which is no phone, no civilian clothing, no leaving base, you have to stay in your barracks room.

[109] But other than during working hours, Typically, you're left alone in your room, even knowing this, I was placed on duty with this individual and left alone with them so that I could make sure while I was on duty that they were not breaking the rules of their restriction, which I felt was so irresponsible to place that individual during working hours alone with a female sailor.

[110] So that was a really big reason why I let it go without bringing it up for so long.

[111] Even when you do get justice through the military systems, it is very slow justice and it's very painful for the victim.

[112] So this continues to be an almost daily occurrence until around June.

[113] E would not be physical with me in front of other people.

[114] He would be verbally abusive with me. Even in front of my leadership, who was also his leadership, he would say things.

[115] to me, like, I needed to stop trying to do something.

[116] It was work -related because I was just a stupid white girl, which was rude and a bit uncouth.

[117] Like, we're at work.

[118] Why do you feel so comfortable to say things like that in front of both of our boss?

[119] And, like, he was spoken to about it.

[120] By my mentor and our boss at that time, who had changed, we now had a different leader in place of the woman who had been my sponsor previously.

[121] I would try to, and I would to be in areas of the clinic as a whole or the department where there were at least two other people.

[122] It was really starting to affect me. I was at the time seeing a therapist just for my anxiety and my depression.

[123] I had not disclosed to my therapist at that point what was going on.

[124] But my leadership, my therapist, my friends, my partner, like they could all tell that something was different in me and they could not figure out what the difference was.

[125] I got very, very good at putting on a face and not talking about it because I had to be in this building with this person because I still had a job to do.

[126] And I still had places I need to be and things that needed done.

[127] I was very jumpy and easily startled, which was not helpful working in a dental and medical office.

[128] Those are not good things.

[129] You need to kind of stay a little bit calm.

[130] You're holding some sharp and pointy stuff really close to people's faces and getting other people worked up is just not great.

[131] I was having symptoms like random bursts of crying.

[132] I could just be standing in a work meeting or with a patient and I would just start crying, just being in the environment where I was being abused.

[133] And I remember at least three times having really major panic attacks at work to the point where one of my leadership would have to come sit with me on the floor until I was reoriented enough to the present moment that I could get myself together and move on with the day.

[134] So when I heard that E was leaving the military and not going to do another enlistment, I was so thrilled because by this point, I was dealing with this on a near daily basis for almost six months.

[135] I did not disclose to anyone what was happening.

[136] As it got closer to being time for E to leave, I had one friend who worked with the sexual assault prevention and response, the sapper.

[137] I pulled him into one of the exam rooms and told him that we were about to have a privileged conversation and that I was self -reporting.

[138] I did report using the restricted pathway.

[139] And I did that because I wanted to have it down on paper for future reference that this happened.

[140] Whenever you're trying to deal with the military, they want a paper trail of anything, even things like this.

[141] So he took my restricted report, which is essentially a victim advocate working with you to document the facts, a most accurate timeline, and you're offered medical and psychological services, and that is the end of it.

[142] It gets uploaded into the Sapper system.

[143] You get a copy of your paperwork, and you push on.

[144] I did that for the same reason that I did in Texas.

[145] I didn't want to deal with it.

[146] I just wanted it documented that this had happened to me, and I wanted to move on.

[147] Unfortunately, this was not the same situation as Texas where I knew for a fact that I was going to be there for X amount of time, and I would be leaving in a few months, and the whole ordeal would be over, because I had over two years left at Quantico working in that same clinic.

[148] So after I do that restricted report, E only had a few more days left at Quantico.

[149] I'm Dan Taberski.

[150] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[151] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[152] I'm like, stop around.

[153] She's like, I can't.

[154] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[155] Like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[156] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[157] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[158] Well, you were holding something back.

[159] Intentionally.

[160] Yeah, well, yeah.

[161] No, it's hysteria.

[162] It's all in your head.

[163] It's not physical.

[164] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[165] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[166] Or is it something else entirely?

[167] Something's wrong here.

[168] Something's not right.

[169] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[170] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, hysterical.

[171] Follow hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[172] You can binge all episodes of Histerical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[173] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[174] I'm Sachi Cole.

[175] And I'm Sarah Hagey.

[176] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[177] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[178] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[179] To the infamous scams of real housewife stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[180] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[181] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad free right now on Wondry Plus.

[182] E started telling people that I was sleeping around, that I was having an affair with my mentor.

[183] I had to deal with hearing about it from someone else and I got to have a lot of really, really uncomfortable embarrassing conversations with my leadership, also with some of the highest leadership at the Navy Command on Quantico, because this is a very, like, serious allegation.

[184] My therapist at the time believed that it was E's last way of hurting me, of taking something away from me, because E had not been able to fully realize his, I don't know if it was a fantasy or something with me. And at this time, I had already been for many, many months living with my partner.

[185] We lived off base.

[186] We had our own apartment.

[187] So I think that's what brought this on.

[188] What ended up saving me from anyone believing it was the fact that E had said that my mentor and I were having sex during the day in the barracks, which is impossible.

[189] because I did not possess any key cards to any of the barracks rooms, neither did my mentor, as well as the fact that during the day we're at work, like a thousand percent accounted for.

[190] So that, it was very traumatic.

[191] I not only lost the respect of a lot of people whose opinions of me did matter in more than a shallow way.

[192] There's a lot of people in the Navy, but it's a very small community.

[193] I didn't feel that sense of safety anymore that I had gotten from hearing about e -leaving because look at what they're doing to me, to my life, to my partner, to my mentor, and they aren't even here.

[194] That day that happened in May or June of 2022 was the first day that I confessed to my partner what was going on because I couldn't hide it anymore.

[195] My partner came home and I was on the phone with one of my friends and I was bawling my eyes out and hyperventilating and sobbing hysterically.

[196] But that was what broke me mentally.

[197] Luckily, this did not scare my partner away.

[198] He doubled down on loving me. I lost friends.

[199] I lost a sense of community that had become really precious to me. I lost my mentor who was someone who would stick their neck out for me and go to bat for me. And if I wanted to learn something new, he would teach it to me, or if I didn't know how to do something, he would educate me on how to get it done.

[200] And I had asked him, I said, why do you give me like the attention that you do?

[201] Maybe that's part of why people like are saying these things about me. And he was like, you get the attention because you ask for it.

[202] You care about showing up and doing a good job.

[203] And that's why you excel.

[204] And that was really, really special and important to me because I had felt like a failure who couldn't do anything right for.

[205] so much of my life.

[206] And here was this person who had over a decade of experience and a job that I was in that I wanted to be that good at it.

[207] That was a very important relationship to me and that was also taken away from me. I felt like I did everything right.

[208] I worked so hard.

[209] I got clean.

[210] I got my GED.

[211] I got out of that relationship.

[212] I went to boot camp.

[213] I graduated.

[214] I learned my job.

[215] I show up every day on time and in uniform.

[216] And this is my reward for Busting my ass.

[217] From that day on, my mental state deteriorated drastically.

[218] I now felt so unsafe at work, even without ease presence there.

[219] I was still having almost daily panic attacks at work in the clinic.

[220] I would go in there every day, and it was the same people and sights and smells and textures and procedures, everything was the same as all that time that I had gone through that abuse from E. After a couple of months of really not being okay and feeling sick every single day, it took its toll on me. I was sick for a year straight from the stress of everything that was going on.

[221] Shortly after that day in June, I started.

[222] having really bad tenderness in my abdomen and some rigidity.

[223] I went to the ER.

[224] They were worried that I was having a burst appendix, but they couldn't find anything wrong with me. So they did an MRI.

[225] And they were like, all the lymph nodes in your abdomen are inflamed.

[226] We don't know why.

[227] We think it could be viral.

[228] That's why you feel so horrible.

[229] And that's why it's presenting as appendicitis.

[230] Here's some meds and go home.

[231] There's nothing we can do for you.

[232] That still happens off and on to this day.

[233] I also developed some kind of upper respiratory something.

[234] Again, it came back negative on every single culture that they did on it.

[235] It made no sense.

[236] They kept giving me antibiotics and steroids and nothing would fix it.

[237] It wouldn't go away.

[238] I lost my voice for two months.

[239] I was in pain.

[240] I was exhausted.

[241] I couldn't exercise anymore.

[242] You hear about it.

[243] Oh, stress will make your hair fall out.

[244] Stress will make you gain weight.

[245] is why you're not sleeping, but like the extent to which that can happen.

[246] You can't imagine it until it's already happened to you.

[247] My hair grew in worse and I gained 80 pounds and my skin got really bad.

[248] I was having these random idiopathic illnesses.

[249] I was just so dysregulated that my physiology could not deal with it at a certain point.

[250] I was just so low.

[251] And finally, I was sent to have my tonsils removed.

[252] And that fixed the problem up right away.

[253] They sent it off to pathology.

[254] They cannot find what is triggering this lymphatic response in my body medically.

[255] But I know that it is from the stress and the pain that I experienced for such a long amount of time without being able to get away from it.

[256] Because the military did give me a lot of really incredible things in my life, but I kind of sold myself to the government.

[257] for this contract time to go where they tell me to and to do what they say.

[258] So it wasn't like I'm being abused.

[259] I need to quit my job.

[260] Or I am in the same environment that I was abused in for six months.

[261] I need to quit my job.

[262] It was its own stressor that I was experiencing this and I couldn't leave.

[263] I couldn't keep myself safe and I couldn't get myself out of the situation.

[264] I had leadership within the command And from directly above me, all the way up to very high up, saying things like, he's gone now.

[265] Why can't you still be in the clinic?

[266] Why can't you stay in this department?

[267] Why can't you stay doing this job here?

[268] When those people are asking you those questions, it's not about your feelings anymore.

[269] It's about operations.

[270] It's about how things are running, where the people need to be, how many people need to be there.

[271] I had to sit there and explain to people that it isn't just the fact that it happened.

[272] It's this is where it happened.

[273] It happened in this room, in that room, and it happened in this hallway, and that hallway.

[274] And it smelled like this air freshener, and it smelled like this soap and this hand sanitizer, and it sounded like this procedure happening in the next room, or it sounded like this person making a phone call in the hallway.

[275] There was a far greater concern on the effect it would have on staffing.

[276] So I was not moved out of the same clinical position.

[277] I was moved out of that specific clinic to one of our satellite clinics, which did help a little bit, but it's still the same sights, sounds, and smells.

[278] It's still a clinic.

[279] It's still patient care.

[280] It's still everything.

[281] I no longer felt safe to be alone with masculine presenting people that I did not know, personally, that I didn't trust.

[282] I had to be taken out of patient care completely and put on colonopin for my panic attacks because they were so severe and they were so chronic that I could no longer safely and effectively see patients.

[283] It's a whole slew of issues for scheduling reasons and ethical reasons.

[284] If I'm like, I can only see feminine presenting people as my patients, unless you own your own practice, like that's not how the world works.

[285] So I ended up running admin as the only person who did that five days a week at the satellite clinic.

[286] But what I really needed was to get out of the clinic.

[287] I'm very lucky to have throughout this whole ordeal had the same therapist from start to finish.

[288] That was kind of the point where she could see that I was starting to give up.

[289] After E left the command and my mental state started to really, really deteriorate, I then disclosed to my therapist everything that had been going on with E for all that time.

[290] She got to have this aha moment where it all made sense to her, the stress and my reactions to it mentally and physically that they were all coming from this situation.

[291] She was very empathetic and sympathetic and just there for me in a way that I really needed her.

[292] her to show up.

[293] So it was a beautiful matchup with my therapist and I. And as we delved deeper into what I was experiencing and how it was affecting me and like what we were going to try to do to kind of mitigate those factors, she decided that different therapies, groups, and treatments were not going to be able to help me if I did not leave the military.

[294] So she put me up for Med Board, which is essentially where your providers will gather their documents, their treatment notes, their diagnoses, length of treatment, everything, and send it to a board of military physicians and high up personnel who look at all the evidence.

[295] And this is very, very, very brief description of what it is.

[296] They make a determination on whether or not you are fit for military service.

[297] That was a very difficult decision for me to make.

[298] everyone in the military jokes about it, like getting that 100%, like, get out on that medboard, the Navy got it's from you, you got to get yours from the Navy, but I don't think that anyone enlists with the intention of not completing at least their first contract.

[299] So when that was suggested to me, I asked for some time to think about it.

[300] When I was asked if I wanted to go on the med board, I was also struggling with things like getting extra money to live off base.

[301] Because at the time, I was not getting housing pay.

[302] My partner was paying for our housing by themselves to keep me in a safer environment.

[303] I decided to unrestrict my report.

[304] My command did get involved in the situation with the unrestricted reporting, something that I've never heard of before.

[305] But when I did it, I was very communicative and open with my victim advocate.

[306] And I told them, I do not want there to be an NCIS investigation because I don't want.

[307] want to go through that retramatization.

[308] They were like, that's all good and well.

[309] You need to sign this form.

[310] It's a declination of participation in the NCIS investigation.

[311] And I had never known that that existed.

[312] I thought that that was a hard stop.

[313] NCIS is going to investigate.

[314] They're going to make you feel like shit.

[315] They're going to make everyone feel like shit.

[316] And they're going to be in your business.

[317] And then you might not even get justice at the end of it.

[318] I didn't have to deal with that, which was probably the best thing for me, because at that period of time, I just needed help.

[319] I didn't necessarily want justice, but I was given greater accommodations.

[320] My housing pay to live off base was granted, and I was put on my med board.

[321] I have spent the last two years in a lot of really intense therapy, and it has made it a lot easier for me to talk about it, which is why I felt like now would be a good time for me to talk about it.

[322] My therapist, she diagnosed me with post -traumatic stress disorder due to having suffered from MST, which is military sexual trauma.

[323] I actually have a military sexual trauma fact sheet pulled up right now from the VA.

[324] So MST stands for military sexual trauma.

[325] It is a term used by the VA Veterans Administration to refer to experiences of sexual assault or sexual harassment experienced during military service because it's such a phenomenon how often and how severe it is in the military for purposes of categorization and even for purposes of disability rating.

[326] They invented it to be its own thing, military sexual trauma.

[327] National data from this program reveals that about one in three women and one in three men respond yes that they experienced MST when screened by their VA providers.

[328] Although rates of MST are higher among women, because there are so many more men than women in the military, there are significant numbers of women and men seen in the VA who have experienced MST and do not disclose.

[329] When you're going through the VA disability process, they want to know how this medical issue is service -related to give you your disability benefits and your disability pay for that incident.

[330] MST is written all over so much of my veterans' paperwork as well as my treatment notes.

[331] I've personally become a little bit desensitized to it.

[332] It no longer hits me how common this is and how absurd it is that this phrase, this acronym even exists.

[333] But, But it does.

[334] That is, unfortunately, the world that I live in.

[335] That's unfortunately the state of the military of the country that I live in.

[336] And I love my country.

[337] And I think that we could be doing so much better.

[338] I'm disappointed in the way that I was treated.

[339] I'm hurt by it.

[340] I feel unimportant and through all of this.

[341] I think that there has to be better ways to deal with this, and I'm sure that there are.

[342] And I would love for someone with a lot more influence than I have to hear this and figure it out.

[343] I was speaking somewhere, and I avoided the specifics of the entire situation, but I did share about how it affected me. And this person was a fellow service member.

[344] Retired, came up to me and asked me if I had been in Iraq because of the way that everything that I went through did impact me. He mistook it for like combat PTSD.

[345] People will be like, why did you get medically retired?

[346] I say for PTSD and a TBI, they assume I was in Iraq or Afghanistan.

[347] That's so telling.

[348] Another major issue that I see on my end because I get a really bird's eye view of our systems.

[349] And I know that a lot of retired military folks end up going into the police force.

[350] What makes me worry about that is not that people aren't capable, but just the high levels of PTSD going from the military already that exists into a job that also has very, very high PTSD rates.

[351] And then you don't have the ability to really report that.

[352] If you are struggling with PTSD, once you're in those roles, then you can lose your job.

[353] And people are so afraid of that, that they're not able to get the services and support they need mentally, they keep working a very, very stressful job.

[354] Both in the military and in our local law enforcement, we need to do better, holding people accountable, of course, but also taking care of the people who are doing the right thing because they deserve our care.

[355] That's another big issue in the military.

[356] When people are dealing with stress, anxiety, depression, PTSD, they don't want to self -report because if it gets bad enough, you could end up on a medboard or you could end up going home.

[357] But the way that I look at it is your life is worth 20 military careers, if not more.

[358] Absolutely.

[359] Because as we know, prolonged periods of stress like that have major, major impacts on our bodies and our spirit and our mental health.

[360] The last time we spoke, end of November, you were still working while we were recording the first half of this episode.

[361] I know your last day was supposed to be December 4th.

[362] 5th of 2023.

[363] Did that end up being your last day?

[364] What has it been like since we spoke last?

[365] Right after you and I spoke ended up being my last in -office day, which was incredible.

[366] I felt so free.

[367] My last day of work ended up being at the end of November.

[368] I don't remember the exact day.

[369] That last week was like kind of a slog.

[370] I was just going through the motions.

[371] I'm here so I don't get arrested.

[372] Like I have a contract.

[373] That last day came.

[374] I texted my leadership.

[375] I said, do you need anything from me. They said no and I left and I laughed and screamed in my car all the way to the base gates.

[376] I actually got promoted three weeks before I separate.

[377] So I'm an HM3, which is Hospital Corman Petty Officer Third Class.

[378] That's just the title that we hold in the Navy.

[379] If you were in the Marines, you would be at my rank a corporal.

[380] And that's the only comparison I'm aware of just because I worked with Marines every day.

[381] That was hilarious.

[382] My boss faced.

[383] timed me with the commander of my base and told me, congratulations.

[384] And I laughed so hard, I started crying because I was like, this is such a kick in the shins.

[385] Thanks.

[386] My last day on the books ended up being at the end of December.

[387] I was off the books and then transferred into veteran status and then I get my disability pay.

[388] Now, it was an amazing feeling, which was rained on a little bit because a couple days after that, my partner and I ended up dissolving our relationship.

[389] But on very good terms, I did not take it well in the moment.

[390] I had never been dumped in a way that, like, I could know for certain came only out of a place of love.

[391] My partner, as of now, does not want to have more children and does not want to get married.

[392] And I still think I might want those things in my future.

[393] So that union is dissolved.

[394] But if that's the only thing wrong in our relationship, we did a great job.

[395] We left each other so much better than we found each other.

[396] I think the most interesting part of all of that was my ex and I lived together for maybe a month, month and a half, after we broke up, which was a good time.

[397] We cherished every moment.

[398] And then I packed myself my puppy into my car.

[399] We drove across the whole country, which was very interesting and very fun.

[400] I love driving across the country alone.

[401] I listen to podcasts for 10 hours a day while I drive.

[402] I love that.

[403] Did you get a haircut and a tattoo as well since we talked last?

[404] I mean, gosh, so much change.

[405] I dyed my hair red and got a new nose piercing.

[406] There we go.

[407] Check, check, check.

[408] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[409] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[410] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[411] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[412] What happens next?

[413] Depends on who you ask.

[414] Was it a crime of passion?

[415] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[416] This was clearly an intentional act.

[417] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[418] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[419] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[420] Everyone had an opinion, and after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[421] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[422] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[423] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[424] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[425] So what was it like getting to the other side and unpacking?

[426] I imagine that it had to feel very pivotal for you.

[427] It did.

[428] I was in very high spirits until I hit the California border.

[429] I have not been on the West Coast my entire enlistment so far.

[430] I never thought that I would have to come back here.

[431] If I wanted to come back, I could.

[432] But here I was through zero choice of my own.

[433] I know I didn't want to be in the military anymore, but I did put a lot of heart and time into this career that I wanted so bad and it was gone.

[434] And I had this partner that I thought was my ride or die.

[435] I really believed that with my whole heart.

[436] And here I was crossing into California, and I started freaking out.

[437] I was calling everyone.

[438] I was crying while I'm driving, just trying to get to my mom's house.

[439] And then when I got here, everything just crashed down on me so hard.

[440] I couldn't speak.

[441] I was sobbing.

[442] I was shaking.

[443] Trigger warning.

[444] I was having really bad suicidal ideation.

[445] I felt like I had lost everything that I had ever worked for or cared about and it was gone.

[446] It was never coming back.

[447] And my life amounted to nothing.

[448] You know, because of the chaos of everything.

[449] I had missed some of my medication because I wasn't able to get it for X amount of time.

[450] And that was a really big contributor.

[451] But I called a friend of mine who works in recovery.

[452] I was really worried about my own safety for a lot of reasons.

[453] And she was able to get me into a treatment program.

[454] She got me into stable housing, which was really great.

[455] I needed that treatment desperately for about a month.

[456] I'd gotten myself back together.

[457] And now that I am really away from it, and I have been for two or three months.

[458] No. I cry a lot less.

[459] I'm just putting my own life back together and figuring out how to be a person again.

[460] I have gotten multiple job offers since I have left the military.

[461] I've applied.

[462] I've interviewed everything.

[463] I did not realize until I started trying to work again that I am so fearful of having male coworkers that it's very difficult for me to find employment and maintain.

[464] employment in a way that I feel like I can function and in a way that I feel safe.

[465] It is hard and it is a little bit embarrassing to feel like I can't breathe just because I'm around a man that I don't know or a coworker that is male or masculine presenting.

[466] It's very deep and it's attached itself to part of my psyche.

[467] I have to have a lot of grace with myself for that.

[468] Talking about that fear and those feelings that are left over from everything that happened has been so healing for me. And I'm not the kind of person who will tell like the deep, dark stuff to my parents.

[469] I did talk to them.

[470] Just telling them that like I do have a sustainable, livable income right now.

[471] I'm taking time off from work.

[472] Here's why was very good for me. Because I do have very traditional parents and none of us thought that I would be 24 and coming home.

[473] Even the fact that it's just for two to three months doesn't really matter.

[474] They're Gen X. They want to see me getting up and moving and getting a job.

[475] And like being able to sit them both down and being like, here's why I'm not working right now.

[476] Here's how what has happened to me is still affecting me. They were so receptive to it.

[477] I have earned a lot of grace with them and I've earned a lot of trust out of my parents in the last five or so years, which feels so good.

[478] I know not everyone has this in their parents, but one person who has seen the really grimy stuff and still loves you, I'm just very blessed that my mom is one of those people for me, and that I can come home and fall apart.

[479] My mom and I, like, fought hard for a really long time to change a lot of things about ourselves.

[480] and like now we've landed here and it feels great.

[481] I just moved back into my parents' house maybe a week and a half ago.

[482] And it's going really great.

[483] I'm happy.

[484] I feel free.

[485] The dogs are incredible.

[486] My mother and my dad have three huge dogs that love my tiny eight -pound dachshund.

[487] Cutest video ever was sent to me earlier today can confirm your mom and dad's dogs, like helping him through the dog door.

[488] And they've been such good boys, by the way.

[489] They got so quiet.

[490] What's next for you?

[491] What's next for me is really open, actually.

[492] I am in a very, very unique position for someone my age in the United States where I am looking at potentially buying a house.

[493] I'm not positive yet.

[494] Might end up renting a place, stay in L .A. for a little while.

[495] I mean, I've entertained the idea of going to London for a few months.

[496] The only concrete plans I have right now are, whether I'm buying or renting, finding a place for deputy and I to make some roots for once.

[497] Okay, like living for these limitless possibilities, like you deserve every good thing.

[498] You deserve peace now, whatever that looks like for you.

[499] But it sounds like some epic traveling perhaps as well.

[500] I just cannot thank you enough not only for the service you gave them, but the service you're giving us now by sharing.

[501] What advice would you give to some, a young woman who is thinking about going into the military, thinking about where you were when you entered?

[502] I've dogged a lot on the military and how it treats people.

[503] But like, if that's someone's dream, you should still do it.

[504] My opinion should not sway anyone's decisions.

[505] It's just information available.

[506] One person's experience, it was a crazy experience, and I'm trying to do something better with But I do love the people that I met in the Navy.

[507] 90 % of them are just some of the best people I've ever known, true lifelong friends.

[508] And it changed me in positive ways that I would have never had the chance to experience had I not been there.

[509] I know that there's a lot of things that need to change and be better.

[510] The advice that I would have for a young person going into the military would be, the way that things currently are, unfortunately, I would say be suspicious, stay on your toes, be wary of who you are around, and how well you really know them.

[511] I understand that feeling of, I'm supposed to have your back and you're supposed to have mine.

[512] I know that I would never do this to you, so why would you ever do this to me?

[513] I understand those feelings and those thoughts, but unfortunately it does happen.

[514] The worst thing that you can do for yourself is to blame yourself if that does happen.

[515] It's not our fault when people deceive us.

[516] It's not our fault when people intimidate us.

[517] It's not our fault when we're afraid.

[518] Getting support is number one if you're not in immediate danger.

[519] Get support.

[520] Talk to someone, a very trusted friend, therapist, proper reporting channels, either way.

[521] The least that you should do for yourself is find your victim advocate.

[522] I know it's different in all branches what they call them.

[523] For us in the Navy, it's sapper.

[524] You call your sapper, you get in touch with a victim's advocate, do a restricted report.

[525] Even if you think you'll never want to bring it up again, have it on paper.

[526] It'll help you later.

[527] And then, of course, discuss other reporting options with your VA, unrestricted reporting.

[528] If you're thinking about joining the military or if you are in the military and you're worried that something like this could happen to you, or if, God forbid, it has happened to you, talk to a VA.

[529] Along with that, the way that investigations can be triggered are if you discuss the situation with someone who is a mandated reporter where they have to disclose if you tell them a good way to mitigate this.

[530] is I've spoken with people that I trust very, very, very, very, very dearly about the situation after I reported and never ever used the perpetrator's name.

[531] I did not want to leave that door open for NCIS for some people that will give them a feeling of vindication.

[532] That's just not what I wanted for myself after, you know, seeing what it did to some friends of mine.

[533] Thank you so much for sharing that.

[534] Is there any other things?

[535] that you haven't already touched on that you think would be important for somebody who's going through something, whether they're in the military or maybe in a different kind of workplace where they're essentially being stalked and sexually abused in their work setting.

[536] Yeah, documentation is definitely a big one.

[537] If I had had the sense of mind at the time to document what happened exactly where it happened, exactly when it happened to the best of my abilities, I would have.

[538] If I had done that, I may have felt comfortable.

[539] allowing NCIS to investigate the situation.

[540] Definitely documentation of what's going on, who's doing what to you, where is it happening, when is it happening.

[541] Typically, if someone is abusing someone else or is stalking or harassing or trying to cause harm to someone, unless they are very good at covert abuse, they're not going to try it with you in front of at least two other people.

[542] maybe one person is their buddy and like doesn't care.

[543] So I would always go for two.

[544] It's never our faults when these things happen.

[545] There was nothing other than not being there that I could have done to stop him from doing what he did.

[546] You know, if someone puts their hands on you, especially do not feel like you're going to be weird or you're going to come off as the crazy person if you get loud with that person.

[547] If you did not say, yes, you can have this physical contact with me, scream, hit, kick, bite, spit, it doesn't matter if you feel embarrassed or silly or stupid.

[548] I would rather have overreacted and been the crazy person than underreact the way that I did if I could go back in time.

[549] Do you happen to have any resources besides the ones you've already mentioned that you feel like would be good for us to link in the episode notes for somebody who's experiencing abuse within a military position?

[550] If you are a veteran or a service member listening and you are dealing with some kind of harassment abuse, I'm going to throw some acronyms out there, people who need them will know them.

[551] If there is absolutely positively, you can say with a thousand percent uncertainty, zero sexual element to your home.

[552] harassment or your abuse, that's EO, that's equal opportunity.

[553] Take it to them.

[554] You don't deserve that.

[555] You deserve better.

[556] Yeah, you signed a contract that doesn't disqualify you from being a human being.

[557] If you are being harassed, assaulted, abused, and there is a sexual element, a thousand and one percent, go call your sapper, call your VA, the Army and the Air Force call it sharp sexual harassment and assault prevention.

[558] I think that's what that stands for.

[559] I know for the Navy and the Marine Corps, it is a sapper call.

[560] There are some apps that can be helpful.

[561] If you are a service member or a veteran or just someone who's experienced trauma in your life, there is an app.

[562] It's called PTSD Coach.

[563] It's just some really helpful coping skills, things like that.

[564] It can be very helpful.

[565] This is an app that I became acquainted with through my own research.

[566] I shockingly did not hear about this from someone in my treatment team.

[567] It's called Beyond MST, Beyond M as in Mike, S is in Sierra, T as in Tango.

[568] It's outreach resources and a rescue line for those who have experienced or are currently experiencing military sexual trauma.

[569] I know accepting that that is something that you're dealing with, also be something that's very difficult.

[570] There have been times in my life where I've definitely had instances where people have made sexual contact with me in some way that I was not comfortable with, and I was very hesitant to accept that that is what had happened to me. What I hope that listeners gleaned from my story is that if they are in a similar situation, whether they be military personnel, a civilian, a partner, or a friend or a coworker, if anyone is speaking to you in an unacceptable or aggressive way, interacting with you physically or otherwise in an unacceptable or unsafe way, you might have to fight for yourself, and you are so worth fighting for.

[571] I went through a lot of this with a lot of support behind me, but I still had to do all of the fighting and the beach.

[572] being loud and the advocating for myself.

[573] And I had to have people telling me every single day, I should not give it up and just accept it.

[574] Sometimes you just have to fight for yourself.

[575] In my perfect world, everyone has each other's backs and stands up.

[576] When they see something happening, that's wrong.

[577] And that's another thing that I hope that if someone else who's not experiencing these things directly is suspicious, that something is going on, that they ask questions, say something, interrupt, intervene.

[578] I found out later that people did have suspicions that something was going on.

[579] If they had said something to me, it would have given me a huge boost in confidence.

[580] Those two things mainly is fight for yourself, advocate for yourself.

[581] It's way less important that people find you likable and palatable than it is that you protect yourself.

[582] I can't properly articulate how many people you're going to help, but I know it's going to be so many.

[583] And I know especially in these specific types of abuse and highlighting the systems that perpetuate it and the ways that it's perpetuated and allowed to continue, this is world -changing stuff.

[584] It's not something that's covered a lot, to be honest.

[585] Big systems are pretty good at covering their, ass a lot of the time and making things go away.

[586] And that's why independent journalism is so important and why individuals like you are so important.

[587] You're fucking so badass.

[588] I'm so thankful for you and your willingness to be so brave and speak out.

[589] Thank you.

[590] There are several non -profit organizations dedicated to supporting victims of military sexual assault, such as the Department of Defense Safe Helpline, available at safehelpline .org.

[591] The Veterans Crisis Line is also available 24 hours a day by dialing 988 and then the number one.

[592] If you or someone you know has experienced military sexual trauma, please refer to the episode notes for an expanded list of resources, sources, and nonprofit organizations.

[593] Next time, on Something Was Wrong.

[594] I compare it to a Cinderella story.

[595] The emotional abuse that she endured living with Keith and Dora was profound, so profound that I reached out to a lawyer a couple times to see, maybe I don't have rights, but maybe Michael has rights.

[596] You know, as a child and them being siblings, there's got to be something that we can do to protect this child.

[597] She's cutting my hair, and I had this really big smile on my face.

[598] She was like, okay, you think it's funny, we can do more.

[599] It was just such an empowering moment.

[600] This is the last haircut you're ever going to give me. I hoped anyway.

[601] She always says, you accepted me despite this abuse.

[602] It's really sad that that was even something that had to enter her mind.

[603] She chose love and goodness coming out of this.

[604] Thank you so much for listening.

[605] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[606] Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media Production.

[607] created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[608] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[609] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[610] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[611] Thank you so much.

[612] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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