420 - Sip Of Drink

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hartstark.

[3] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[4] A sip of a drink.

[5] And there's my sip of drink.

[6] And that's how you know the podcast has begun.

[7] Because I'm drinking.

[8] Amen.

[9] Hi, what's going on with you on this beautiful?

[10] Maybe it's going to thunderstorm evening.

[11] I know.

[12] I actually took a picture of the sky when I was at the mall earlier.

[13] And I was, I thought it was like, high art. And then I'm like, oh, this is just like what springtime does to you.

[14] Oh, yeah.

[15] Look at that beautiful single Simpsons Cloud in the sky over the mall in such a way that I'm going to take a picture of it.

[16] Well, when L .A. has the slightest of, you know, changes in the atmosphere and whether it's a fucking, like, revelation.

[17] It's an Instagram opportunity.

[18] That's right.

[19] And I'm not, I'm not even on there.

[20] And I know I can recognize an Instagram.

[21] opportunity when I see one.

[22] You don't have your account of just the sky in Los Angeles.

[23] Sky only.

[24] I did make a fake account or like a, you know, what are those called when it's not your name?

[25] Throwaway account.

[26] What?

[27] Yeah.

[28] Did you say throwaway account?

[29] I thought you said bro away.

[30] It's like, what?

[31] That's when a bro is trying to hit on other girls.

[32] Yes.

[33] When he has a girlfriend.

[34] Yes.

[35] A bro away.

[36] Oh my God.

[37] The lengths that people go to to be dishonest in this modern digital age really blows my mind.

[38] Like just be yourself and be dishonest.

[39] You don't have to be a fake person, right?

[40] Yeah.

[41] Oh, I mean, I know that there is enjoyment in the trickery, but it seems hard.

[42] It seems effortful to me. Oh, yeah.

[43] Yeah.

[44] Like to keep up a lie.

[45] Yeah.

[46] Or multiple.

[47] Like you're trying to play.

[48] plate spin several women at one time as a bro away as a bro away account no no dude that sounds exhausting there are other things to do maybe they're not as the payoff isn't as great and like who hurt you and like go to therapy and like take care of your shit so that you don't cause other people to have shit you know that's right you're actually continuing the chain you're not breaking the chain the way Fleetwood Mac would want you to.

[49] You're continuing that chain of like damage and then, of course, reaction and the other person to then damage others.

[50] Break the cycle, leave people the way you found them, or better would be great too.

[51] Better would be nice.

[52] You know, even it's possible.

[53] Could be a little evolution there.

[54] You know, I wanted to say we were lucky enough to get invited to the IHeart Radio awards for podcasting.

[55] Yeah.

[56] It was last weekend.

[57] And while we were there, Because we've been invited before we never really do stuff like that.

[58] And we decided to do it this year.

[59] And the really difficult and incredibly shocking news is that Travis Kelsey and his brother won.

[60] For Best Podcasts of the Year, we lost to them.

[61] Dark Horse out of nowhere.

[62] But what I've never thought about in doing these things and being like, yes, no, I don't care about that, whatever.

[63] As a person who's written on award shows and seen how the sausage is made, it's, Yeah.

[64] It doesn't leave any fun behind.

[65] But all of this is to say, we got to see some old friends.

[66] We got to meet some new friends.

[67] Yes.

[68] It was such a cool experience to be in a room with a bunch of podcasters, including Chris Pine, the podcaster Chris Pine, who was mere feet away from us.

[69] Yes.

[70] I just never turned my head.

[71] You never looked?

[72] I never looked over.

[73] Never once.

[74] Because Chris Pine is number one.

[75] In my opinion.

[76] The idea that he was there with us was kind of insane.

[77] Very close to us, as was Kyle McLaughlin, who I, he let me take a selfie with him on my way out.

[78] He was much more polite than Corey Feldman was that one time.

[79] I tried to take a photo.

[80] And we, and Samantha Ronson was DJing and she's a member of our family podcasting community.

[81] Oh my God.

[82] Samantha Ronson, that was really fun because she walked up and just started talking like we were old friends.

[83] And I was like, this is the huge benefit of being a podcaster is you have these relationships that are just sitting there waiting for you.

[84] It's so, it's just the greatest.

[85] Lacey Mosley of scam goddess was there looking gorgeous as ever.

[86] She won.

[87] She won.

[88] That was cool.

[89] That was early in the night.

[90] Very cool.

[91] Old friend Payne Lindsay, of course.

[92] Pain Lindsay was there.

[93] Jake Brennan of Disgraceland was there.

[94] Our friend Paul Shear from How Did This Get Made was a presenter and I found him in the bar before it all started.

[95] And I was like, hey, man, what is up?

[96] Very exciting.

[97] And then I haven't been able, because we had Becky and E .J. from the Butterfly King on the last episode, so that was pre -recorded.

[98] So I haven't been able to give this recommendation.

[99] So I'm going to fold this in.

[100] But wait, did you want to say, I feel like I've been talking this whole time?

[101] Did you have other people?

[102] I was just thinking I should let you talk because I've been interrupting you this whole time.

[103] We're through the looking glass on this episode.

[104] Yeah.

[105] No, go.

[106] I feel like that's a thing I'm, the more I leave my house, the more I'm like, you have to stop talking.

[107] And I kind of just can't.

[108] But then it's like, on this I'm supposed to.

[109] And like, I feel like if anyone's used to it, it's you.

[110] But the point of all of that was to say, I have been listening to a podcast that I cannot believe.

[111] And it's recommended by my Canadian friend, Jacob Tierney, who has the best taste from Letterkenny and from Shorzie and from many other things.

[112] And he was like, have you listened to this yet?

[113] And when he does that and actually text it to me, I know that I just go straight to listening.

[114] The podcast is called Murder 101.

[115] And hopefully you guys have already heard it.

[116] If you haven't, go now, follow it, do all the things, support it.

[117] Because it is the podcast story of in real life a group of high school sociology class in Tennessee, who their teacher decides they're going to do a special like semester.

[118] And they start looking into the cold cases, the series of cold cases and unidentified Jane Does from their community that eventually they put together.

[119] And it is a serial killer that has been killing people in their area for decades.

[120] And this class starts doing the work of, like, FBI profilers, they pull in a journalist who'd been working alone on it.

[121] And they had to learn how to do that.

[122] It wasn't like they were all into true crime.

[123] They had to figure, I'm listening to it now because you told me to, and I'm in love with it.

[124] They had to like figure, how do we solve a cold case?

[125] So they started from the very beginning of, which I think is such a, you know, a great tool because you see things that other people miss or have missed, of course.

[126] So amazing.

[127] Also, this idea that, because it's sociology, it's kind of like, how does your community work?

[128] How does the policing work?

[129] How do you get a hold of the FBI if you had something to tell them, would it work?

[130] Would they care?

[131] Totally.

[132] Like all these different things, but then you hear these kids start talking about these were people in this community that mattered.

[133] They're people's relatives, all those things.

[134] But a really young person, it's like a person that's putting it together for themselves.

[135] Of they disappeared, they deserve to be found, they deserved to be spoken for.

[136] And while we were at the awards, a woman walked out to me and was like, hi, I'm Stephanie Leidecker from Murder 101.

[137] And I had been talking to somebody at IHeartRadio about how much I love that podcast.

[138] And then she came up and introduced herself to us.

[139] And I was like, this is it right here.

[140] This is what I'm in it for right here.

[141] And we got a dress up too, which is so fun.

[142] On top of everything.

[143] I found a fucking old vintage dress.

[144] Oh, looked amazing on you.

[145] Like 10 out of 10.

[146] Thank you.

[147] And there was a famous dog there.

[148] Remember?

[149] I was like, I bet it's so famous and we're just like the old ladies who don't fucking have any clue who this dog.

[150] Apparently people love this dog.

[151] Did you know the internet loves dogs?

[152] Crazy, right?

[153] We can post all those photos on Instagram by the way because I forced you to take a couple photos.

[154] Yes.

[155] So we have photos with Samantha Ronson, a couple others.

[156] Do we really?

[157] Yeah, remember I was like, we're taking one without asking you.

[158] There's a podcast that won and I think it was like a subset of true crime, but it's a podcast called Wrongful Conviction.

[159] Oh, they were so cool.

[160] They were super cool.

[161] And I had never heard of them.

[162] I apologize.

[163] They're very famous and they've won before and they're very experienced entertainment executives and broadcasters and stuff.

[164] So like entirely on me. But the way they got introduced, the stuff that they talked about and then them, themselves in their acceptance speech.

[165] It was the, I was like, oh, my God, thank God.

[166] They're actually reversing wrongful convictions with a podcast.

[167] They're legit.

[168] And we talked to them afterwards and they were so freaking cool.

[169] Very cool.

[170] Make sure you listen to that.

[171] A wrongful conviction.

[172] Murder 101.

[173] All the things.

[174] And then of course, my stalwart favorite murder in Oregon, which Lauren Bright Pichenko was the host of co -hosting with the journalist from the Oregonian.

[175] And we met her, too, at the party.

[176] I hung out with her for a little while, the coolest, coolest woman.

[177] Yeah, it was just, that was very cool to be in and among so many cool, badass, nice podcasters.

[178] Our peers.

[179] Our peers and our people.

[180] Yay.

[181] And Chris Pine.

[182] And Chris Pine.

[183] And always Chris Pine.

[184] Chris Pine.

[185] Should we do Exactly Right Corner?

[186] Sure.

[187] Okay.

[188] We have a podcast network.

[189] It's called Exactly Right.

[190] Here are some highlights.

[191] Now I really have the few.

[192] feeling like I've been talking the whole time.

[193] No, you have it.

[194] You're good.

[195] Well, we have huge news.

[196] Today is the day that the Butterfly King, a World War II murder mystery, premieres on the exactly right network.

[197] You can go over to the show feed, The Butterfly King.

[198] Please give it a follow.

[199] Please listen to the first two episodes now.

[200] And then, of course, remember to rate and review it.

[201] Last week, we were just talking.

[202] We had E .J. and Becky on.

[203] So we're so excited for you to hear the work that they do and their podcasting prowess on the Butterfly King.

[204] We're so proud of it.

[205] We're so proud of them.

[206] It's such an exciting thing.

[207] And also, there are lots of funny people on our ERM podcast this week.

[208] Writer Emily Heller joins the ladies on Lady to Lady.

[209] Actor Michael Uri is Bridger's guest on I Said No Gifts.

[210] And Canadian comedian Deborah D. Giovanni visits Roz on Ghosted.

[211] Deb D. Giovanni, if you've never seen her do stand up and you have the opportunity, you absolutely have to.

[212] She's one of the funniest people there is.

[213] And then over in the exactly right store, we're having a spring sale, and you can get 15 % off all regular priced merch with the secret code treasure, all caps.

[214] There's a Y in the middle, through March 25th.

[215] And then look out for the last chance section for bigger discounts on lots of things from pins to puzzles and everybody.

[216] Everything in between.

[217] And everybody.

[218] And everybody.

[219] And finally, the day is coming.

[220] My Favorite Murder has joined TikTok.

[221] Yay!

[222] So search for my favorite murderer in the app and give us a follow.

[223] We're the ones with the blue check mark.

[224] In case you're on a different one where they're talking about all the problems that we have.

[225] That's not us.

[226] That's not how we do it.

[227] No, it isn't.

[228] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[229] Absolutely.

[230] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[231] Exactly.

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[247] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[248] Goodbye.

[249] I. Okay, Karen, this is a big one.

[250] This is a rough one.

[251] This is a doozy.

[252] This is one of the ones that I've been researching and researching and researching, and I'm glad to take a break from it because it's just kind of taken over my thoughts and dreams and is really fucked up.

[253] Yeah.

[254] Did you know, Karen, that there were multiple serial killers operating in southeast Louisiana at one time?

[255] No, I only knew that about Los Angeles in the 70s.

[256] Yeah.

[257] In the 90s and early 2000s, there were possibly three or more serial killers active at that time.

[258] And between the years of 1992 and 2003, Baton Rouge, Louisiana's capital, is one of the deadliest cities in America.

[259] Wow.

[260] I know.

[261] And approximately 60 women are missing or murdered.

[262] 60.

[263] So today I'm going to tell you this.

[264] story of one, just one of those serial killers and how the murders he committed would have become a cold case if it hadn't been for the persistence of a small town police chief.

[265] Wow.

[266] This is the story of one of the butchers of the bayou.

[267] Wow.

[268] I've never heard of this.

[269] This is wild.

[270] And so my sister lived in Baton Rouge for a while and I asked her about it because I have no reference at all.

[271] You know, I've only been in New Orleans.

[272] So I always thought it wasn't safe because of you hear these stories about the murder rates there.

[273] And she's like, it felt really safe.

[274] There were just some places that you didn't go to at night.

[275] So it still is small -towny.

[276] And there's a big college there.

[277] So it's kind of still a college town, you know.

[278] Right.

[279] So the main sources I used in today's story include the four -part documentary called Butchers of the Bayou, which I highly recommend.

[280] And then all that's interesting article by Amber Breeze.

[281] And all the other sources are listed in our show notes.

[282] All right.

[283] You ready for this one?

[284] Yeah.

[285] Okay, so Baton Rouge.

[286] Have you been there?

[287] No. I don't think so.

[288] No, I think I've only been to New Orleans.

[289] Yeah, me too.

[290] Baton Rouge.

[291] But it sounds like a place I would have gone to do like a college by myself.

[292] Yeah, right?

[293] And there are a lot of murderinos from there.

[294] We got a lot of emails about this story.

[295] And a lot of them lived there at the time and talked about how scary it was to live through this.

[296] So it was once thought of as a safe community.

[297] The kind of place, place where people left their doors unlocked and windows open because it was hot out, you know, greeted everyone with a friendly smile, one of those towns in a college town, as I said.

[298] That is until 2001, when in a span of eight months, multiple women are attacked and murdered in their homes, causing the city to go into panic mode.

[299] But just like eight months, there's this killing spree.

[300] It reminds me of the Gainesville Ripper story in Florida that I covered once.

[301] Oh, yeah.

[302] So let's start in 2001.

[303] Gina, Wilson Green is a 41 -year -old nurse who is full of life and has a strong desire to help people, hence going into nursing.

[304] She lives alone in a cottage, not far from LSU's campus in Baton Rouge.

[305] She knows the area to be friendly, so she's usually comfortable living by herself.

[306] But on September 23rd, 2001, she tells her mom during a phone call that she feels like she's being watched lately.

[307] And she is a really safe person.

[308] She has, I mean, it's 2001 and she lives alone and she has security, like, set up in the whole house, which I think wasn't as popular back then to get security.

[309] Wasn't as common.

[310] Yeah.

[311] It wasn't as easy to get a hold of.

[312] Right.

[313] It was expensive.

[314] It wasn't easy.

[315] So that night, she goes to bed like normal.

[316] But at 3 .47 a .m., her home security alarm goes off.

[317] She gets a call from the security company to check on her.

[318] She looks around, says everything's fine.

[319] So they don't dispatch any security or police.

[320] And she goes back to bed.

[321] But the next morning, September 24th, 2001, Gina doesn't show up for work, which is very unlike her.

[322] One of her coworkers decides to go to her house to check on her.

[323] And when he gets there, a little after 1 p .m., he finds Gina laying face down on her bed.

[324] She's naked.

[325] She's non -responsive.

[326] And he immediately calls the police.

[327] Police arrive to find Gina's back door unlocked, which is, you know, not like her.

[328] She doesn't open the door to strangers and she locks all her doors.

[329] There are strangulation marks on her neck.

[330] And when they question Gina's neighbors and try to gather clues, one neighbor says that he saw a white man in a white truck drive away from Gina's house the night before.

[331] So that's where the police start looking for a white man who drives a white truck.

[332] I feel like in these stories that we tell each other, one of the most painful and, like, upsetting parts is when women know that something is wrong.

[333] And they feel for whatever reason, like that that that, instinct is it's just them or you know what I mean that yeah they dismiss it and I'm not saying that in a judgmental way against her only in that way of I wish we were raised to never doubt our instincts right I wish all of us were it was like if you're feeling it you're right so that when that alarm went off she would have gone send people out here right now and yeah and whoever you send they're spending the night because what's going on like it's so easy to say 20 20 which is what all of talking about true crime is.

[334] Yeah.

[335] But I just wish that wasn't such a painful point.

[336] It's so hard with these stories because it's these little tiny things that happen that could have been different.

[337] And we can't help, but think about all the times.

[338] We have been in similar situations and that one little tiny thing didn't happen.

[339] Right.

[340] And, you know, it's just, I mean, it's unfathomable.

[341] Yeah.

[342] So that was in September.

[343] And then on January 14th, 2002, just a couple months later, before police can find this white man in a white truck, 21 -year -old LSU grad student, Jerylind De Soto, is found stabbed to death in her home.

[344] Jerylind puts up a good fight in the struggle, and the forensic teams find DNA samples from under her fingernails, but when it comes to pinning down a suspect, police are still at a total loss.

[345] It's 2002, early 2002.

[346] DNA is not a huge thing yet.

[347] it's becoming bigger, but like they can test it for basics and compare, but not much more than that.

[348] They have no idea what it's about to turn into.

[349] Right.

[350] And how much information they can actually get from it.

[351] And they have no leads.

[352] You have to match the DNA with the suspect, and they have none.

[353] So that case goes cold.

[354] However, the main suspect is her boyfriend who has been abusive to her in the past.

[355] So the police zero in on him.

[356] You know, these two cases aren't linked yet.

[357] So Charlotte Murray Pace, 22, her friends and family call her Murray.

[358] She's a star student.

[359] She's just graduated from LSU as one of the youngest people to earn an MBA.

[360] So she's super smart, very charismatic.

[361] All these women are beautiful.

[362] She's got plans to move to Atlanta by the end of the summer, but for the time being, she's sharing a townhouse with her roommate, Rebecca.

[363] On the afternoon of May 31st, 2002, Charlotte is home alone.

[364] She's eating lunch.

[365] she answers a knock at her door and the man she opens the door to forces his way inside the townhouse and starts to attack Murray.

[366] I'm calling her Murray.

[367] That's what everyone called her.

[368] Murray fights back like hell and a huge struggle ensues.

[369] But sadly, the man overpowers her.

[370] He rapes her, beats her, stabs her and then flees.

[371] When the roommate Rebecca returns home, she finds the house covered in blood and her roommate dead from blunt force trauma and 81 stab wounds.

[372] Oh my gosh.

[373] I know.

[374] It's horrific.

[375] Also, oh, that's so frightening and so such a horrible detail.

[376] But equally horrible is the fact that she's 21 or 22 years old.

[377] 21, the brightest futures, all of these women had.

[378] Like, so young, just babies.

[379] That's, yeah.

[380] Yeah.

[381] And that's what's so hard about doing these cases is you read the details to get everything right.

[382] And so I can't help but put myself in her shoes and imagine.

[383] you know, the terror she must have felt.

[384] Oh, yeah.

[385] It's just, it's horrifying.

[386] So that was May 31st.

[387] Then like a month and a half later on July 12th, 2002, 44 -year -old Pam Kinnamore is abducted from her home.

[388] Now, Pam is well known and loved in the community where she lives.

[389] She has an antique shop called Comfort and Joys.

[390] And she had worked late that night.

[391] When she came home, she drew herself a bath, not knowing that she had left her keys in the lock on the door outside.

[392] I've done that so many times.

[393] Of course you have.

[394] We all have.

[395] I know.

[396] And like she was being targeted.

[397] The killer would have gotten in.

[398] So it's not her fault at all that that, you know what I mean?

[399] It's like that is just an insane, awful, you know, piece of information.

[400] Yeah, no, that predator was determined on the attack clearly.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Especially with those other, but good Lord.

[403] Oh.

[404] So her husband comes home, finds the bath still full, signs of a struggle, but Pam is gone.

[405] So he calls the police.

[406] And sadly, Pam is found dead in the Whiskey Bay, which is nearby three days later on July 15th, 2002.

[407] And so there are actually two eyewitnesses who said that when they were driving in the area, they saw the passenger in a white truck, a nude woman who looked unconscious or the other one was saying that she looked like she was like begging for help from the passerby.

[408] So two people, white male, white truck in the whiskey bay area.

[409] So with the DNA found on Pam's body, all three cases are now linked.

[410] And of course, that means we have a serial killer on the loose.

[411] Yeah.

[412] So then on November 21st, 2002, so a few months later, not that, like, so, I mean, just imagine you live in this small town and every month and a half, two months, some horrific event happens like this.

[413] How terrified you would be.

[414] Pam was taken out of her own home.

[415] Yeah.

[416] Yeah.

[417] And murdered.

[418] That is like, it's all a nightmare.

[419] But yeah, that town, people must have just been losing it.

[420] Yes.

[421] People were, I cannot understate how fucking terrified people were.

[422] And all the emails that I read from murderinos were like, I was, there, it was awful.

[423] I moved away.

[424] Like, everyone was just so freaked out.

[425] Yeah.

[426] Then on November 21st, 2002, 23 -year -old Tenetia column, she's kidnapped from the parking lot of the cemetery where she had just visited her mother's grave, who had died a few months earlier.

[427] How fucking awful is that?

[428] Trenacia had a bright future.

[429] She had been in the army and she had plans to join the Marines.

[430] Sadly, a few days later, her body is found beaten to death right outside of Baton Rouge.

[431] she's linked by DNA to the same serial killer.

[432] And it's actually interesting because if the DNA hadn't been there or hadn't been tested, she probably wouldn't have been linked to those first three murders because the MO is completely different.

[433] But also those first three women were white and Trinatia was black.

[434] So they didn't think that they were connected at all and they are.

[435] Yeah.

[436] So now they know they have this monster roaming the fucking city, attacking women.

[437] He's not just breaking into houses, but he's finding people by themselves.

[438] That makes me think of the from true crime bullshit, which is the unbelievable and amazing podcast about Israel Keys and all of the potential cases around there.

[439] There's a story of a woman who was visiting her grandfather's grave.

[440] Graveyards by nature are empty and quiet, and there's very, very, very few people coming by.

[441] And the idea that there's people like targeting a place like that where people are basically isolated by choice is so frightening and horrifying.

[442] It is.

[443] It absolutely is.

[444] So finally, on March 3rd, 2003, 26 -year -old LSU grad student and environmentalist Carrie Lynn Yoder vanishes from her apartment.

[445] Her boyfriend had called the police when she wasn't home and had found some suspicious stuff going on in an apartment.

[446] Her body is found 10 days later by a fisherman.

[447] Again, in the whiskey bay.

[448] And it was found just right by where Pam's body had been found back in July.

[449] So it was clear these were all connected.

[450] She had been raped, been beaten and strangled to death.

[451] Again, a DNA match.

[452] So now fear grips every citizen of Baton Rouge in the surrounding area.

[453] The popularity of self -defense classes skyrockets.

[454] Everything is booked.

[455] You can't get it.

[456] You can't even get in to take a lesson.

[457] Mace flies off the shelf.

[458] And then rumors about how these normally safe, conscious women open their doors to a stranger start to swirl.

[459] Stuff like perhaps it was a police officer or a delivery man in uniform knocking or the killer knocked and said he needed to use their phone maybe or, you know, his car is broken down or he's lost or whatever, which things we hear all the time.

[460] I've personally, in that time especially and for, you know, it just doesn't seem that weird to open your door when someone knocks to me. It's not like that's shocking.

[461] I think that it's just the natural inclination is to open your door when you hear a knock, right?

[462] So it's not totally out of the ordinary.

[463] Nowadays, I would talk to someone through my ring cam, you know.

[464] But like back then, you just opened your door, someone knocked, especially during the day.

[465] But I wonder also, I think this is just the thing, people in that town were trying to do the thing that we're trying to do, which is essentially what is happening, why is it happening, who's doing it, and how do we make it so it doesn't happen anymore?

[466] Yeah.

[467] And whether we're talking about now, in hindsight, you know, if you have this instinct or whatever, or if it's just don't answer your door.

[468] If only it was that simple.

[469] If only that was the solution of like, okay, never answer your door again.

[470] That's not it.

[471] Yeah.

[472] Like that's the only way someone can break in.

[473] Well, especially these pieces of shit who are serial killers or like predators who won't be stopped.

[474] They'll just, you know, Trinisha was murdered in the parking lot.

[475] of a cemetery.

[476] So there wasn't one way to do it for this guy.

[477] Absolutely not.

[478] I want to hear the creepiest theory of how the killer got in.

[479] This started going around that the killer would play a tape of a crying baby outside the woman's home to lure the woman out.

[480] That definitely sounds like a rumor.

[481] Yeah.

[482] It was never corroborated.

[483] I think it's not true, but somehow that got started.

[484] Because it's so creepy.

[485] It's so creepy.

[486] Yeah.

[487] So a multi - agency homicide task course is formed in August 2002 to track down the killer.

[488] Because of the multiple sightings of this white man in a white truck, a composite sketch is plastered all over the news.

[489] It's this really shitty rendering.

[490] And I guess people with white trucks, it's fucking the south.

[491] There's so many white trucks everywhere.

[492] I found out from reading some stuff that you get white because it gets so hot during the summer that it doesn't attract the heat, I guess.

[493] So everyone has a white truck.

[494] But they swabbed over 1 ,200 white men to get DNA and to try to match that.

[495] And the FBI gets involved as well.

[496] Meanwhile, okay, we're over in a small town just outside of Baton Rouge called Zachary.

[497] It's a tight -knit community where everyone knows everyone.

[498] It really is like a safe, quiet community, a suburb of Baton Rouge.

[499] Police chief, his name is David McDavid.

[500] Oh.

[501] I'm not fucking that up.

[502] That's pretty great.

[503] He has a hunch that he knows who the killer is.

[504] He is one of only two detectives in the Zachary Police Department, which tells you what a small town it is.

[505] So because of that, he doesn't get much attention when he brings his theory to the Baton Rouge Task Force that has the FBI and all these jurisdictions attached to it.

[506] But he's sure he's right.

[507] And that's because they have a killer in their midst as well.

[508] And he's been sure that his cases are linked since the Baton Rouge killings started.

[509] So let's go back in time in Zachary.

[510] So on August 24th, 1992, we're going way back.

[511] An accountant named Connie Lynn Warner is found to have been abducted from her home in the Oak Shadows subdivision in Zachary.

[512] Blood is found inside her home and it indicates she may have been murdered.

[513] It's that much blood or at least harmed before she.

[514] was abducted.

[515] Connie is a careful person and not one again to open doors for strangers, which is why police are surprised to find no signs of forced entry.

[516] Several days later, on September 2nd, 1992, her body turns up near the state capital building in downtown Baton Rouge.

[517] Unfortunately, Hurricane Andrew had ripped through town washing away any evidence that might have helped find Connie's killer.

[518] And the case goes cold.

[519] Six years later in 1998, a woman named Randy Me Brewer is also living in the Oak Shadow subdivision of Zachary just a block away from where Connie Lynn Orner lived.

[520] Randy is a recently divorced home health care nurse raising her three -year -old son on her own.

[521] The night of April 18, 1998, Randy vanishes.

[522] The next morning, her three -year -old son knocks on the neighbor's door asking to play with their kids and the neighbors notice there's blood on Michael's clothes.

[523] Oh, my God.

[524] I know.

[525] This is horrifying.

[526] They go to Randy's house to check on things, and they find the house in disarray and a trail of blood running through it.

[527] But I guess there's a handprint in blood on the son's door, but he had slept through the whole thing, whatever happened.

[528] Oh, thank God.

[529] Yeah.

[530] So he didn't even know.

[531] They called the police.

[532] They conduct an extensive search for Randy because she's missing all around the area for weeks, but her body never turns up.

[533] and her case, like Connie's, runs cold.

[534] In between these two murders, so 92 and 98, there's an incident in the same area, generally, where two teenagers are parked outside a cemetery late at night when suddenly, like, a machete -wielding maniac comes out of nowhere and attacks them.

[535] Randomly, a police officer drives by in the middle of the attack, and the perpetrator is able to escape and leaves the two teens' best.

[536] badly injured, but alive.

[537] Oh, my God.

[538] I know, I know.

[539] This is a combination of every, like, horror movie and scary story you've ever heard, like, urban legend kind of thing.

[540] Totally.

[541] So then years later, in 2001, when the murders in Baton Rouge start to take place, David McDavid strongly suspects his murders are related, as they have so many similarities, including the women opening the door to their killers.

[542] And in the Baton Rouge murders, the killer would leave with the victim's cordless phone.

[543] That was like the trophy he took.

[544] And in the Zachary murders, he took the car keys of the victims.

[545] Even when the police pulled up behind the car that he was attacking the teenagers in, he took the time to grab the keys up of the ignition and run.

[546] Like, that's how much you needed that weird prize.

[547] And he also still got away.

[548] Yeah.

[549] Ugh.

[550] Wow.

[551] It's fucked up.

[552] So the FBI builds out.

[553] a profile for the man they're searching for because they're in it now.

[554] And among other things, they say that it's a white man age 25 to 35.

[555] That's who they're looking for.

[556] And here's what the problem comes in for McDavid, because his suspect is black.

[557] But still, McDavid is persistent about checking his crime scene DNA with that of the Baton Rouge crime scene DNA.

[558] He doesn't care.

[559] He is still convinced that these are so similar, have the same feeling, and he thinks his earlier attacks are connected.

[560] However, Baton Rouge refuses to test the DNA against his crime scenes, says he's wasting their time.

[561] And remember, this is the early days of DNA.

[562] So there's, they're just like, there's no way.

[563] Then everything changes.

[564] In 2003, there's a technological breakthrough in DNA testing where they're able to get more information.

[565] This is a enter young Paul holes on forensic files explaining to all of us what exactly DNA is about, yeah.

[566] That is so accurate.

[567] That is 100 % accurate.

[568] It turns out that they are able to test DNA to see what race a person is.

[569] So when they test the DNA of the perpetrator from the crime scenes, it comes back with at least, quote, 85 % African ancestry.

[570] So it's not a white man, this whole fucking time they've been looking for.

[571] It's a black man. And the public is outraged that they've been wasting so much time.

[572] on this composite sketch that has nothing to do with the actual suspect, this white man, white truck thing is not true at all.

[573] So the public are outraged.

[574] If that hadn't been the case, then maybe some of these women wouldn't have been killed.

[575] That's, you know, their theory.

[576] So that now takes us back.

[577] We're going to go back a little bit to 2002, to a seemingly unrelated case.

[578] On July 9, 2002, and so this is in the middle of that killing spree, a nurse named Diane Alexander opens her door to a strange man on her doorstep.

[579] She lives just outside Baton Rouge in a rural area.

[580] And she's also a nurse.

[581] Yes.

[582] Lots of nurses.

[583] Yeah.

[584] That is.

[585] The man tells her he's lost.

[586] He asks to use her phone.

[587] He's very polite and charming.

[588] She says no, but he forces his way inside and starts to violently attack her.

[589] Then in the middle of the attack, Diane's adult son shows up and chases off his mom's attacker, and so she survives.

[590] She's one of the heroes of the story.

[591] Yeah.

[592] They're able to provide a clear enough description for police to come up with a composite sketch.

[593] They had detailed the car, even a dent in the car, what exactly what this man looked like and they have a composite sketch.

[594] The man Diane describes, however, is not the white man with a white truck.

[595] He's a black man. Since police are certain that they're looking for are a white man, white truck ages 25 to 35.

[596] They assume the attack she experienced is unrelated to the murders.

[597] And so they treat Diane's case separately.

[598] So then cut back to them finding out that it's not a white man. And McDavid from Zachary sees the sketch in Diane's case that she had come up with.

[599] And he immediately recognizes the face as his original suspect, a man by the name of Derek Todd Lee.

[600] So this is the guy that McDavid suspected the whole time and just couldn't prove.

[601] Yep.

[602] Wow.

[603] From his second murder, he suspected it in 1998, but he had no proof.

[604] So let me just tell you a little bit about Derek Toddley, not much.

[605] He grew up in Zachary, Louisiana.

[606] And in fact, he lived for a time in the Oak Shadow subdivision where both women were murdered.

[607] He's one of 13 kids.

[608] He has learning disabilities.

[609] He gets bullied.

[610] Not a great background.

[611] He does become a pretty charming adult, which would explain how he could.

[612] talk his victims into letting them into their homes or opening their doors.

[613] He's been arrested several times for stalking and watching women and breaking and entering in Zachary.

[614] So McDavid, you know, he had been turned down by the task force to test his DNA from his crime scenes.

[615] So he goes off on his own and gets a warrant to collect a DNA sample from Derek Todd Lee on May 5, 2003.

[616] And this is like the craziest part.

[617] This four -part documentary, Bushes of the Bayou, tells it really.

[618] well.

[619] Basically, he brings that DNA sample in himself to the task force crime lab because he doesn't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

[620] There's tons of, of course, outside jurisdictions trying to see if their cases are connected as well.

[621] You know, it's a crazy time.

[622] But he is adamant that they test the sample.

[623] So later when the analyst tests it, she thinks she's just testing a sample from another crime scene, meaning like, yes, the perpetrator is the same from the other crime scenes because she sees it matches the serial killer.

[624] When she looks at the paperwork it comes with, she realizes that it's actually from a suspect and she can't fucking believe it.

[625] And so it matches Derek Todd Lee and connects him to all the murders.

[626] Oh.

[627] But police announced that they're looking for him.

[628] And so he goes on the run.

[629] So he is on the run for two days.

[630] And the Baton region surrounding areas are like on lockdown freaking out.

[631] They like know who the serial killer is they can't believe the police have let him get away.

[632] He's on the run.

[633] You know, it's just mayhem.

[634] Yeah.

[635] But thankfully, two days later, he's caught without incident in Atlanta, Georgia on May 27th, 2003.

[636] There was some argument, actually, that he was incompetent to stand trial because he scored an average of 65 on IQ tests.

[637] But the trial moves forward, and Diane Alexander, the survivor, takes the stand.

[638] in both of his trials and testifies against Derek Todd Lee, helping the jury to find him guilty of the murders of Geraldine De Soto and Charlotte Murray Pace.

[639] And he's sentenced to death.

[640] He's also linked by DNA to the murders of Randy Meebure, Gina Green, Pam Kinnamor, Tarnatia Colum and Carrie Yoder.

[641] God.

[642] So the city's finally able to breathe a collective sigh of relief when police have finally captured Derek Toddley.

[643] With Lee behind bars, police are sure they finally got the monster responsible for all the murders that took place in the area.

[644] However, DNA and other evidence had only linked Lee to seven murders that they're investigating.

[645] And so to the police's surprise and horror, there's at least another six murders that they expected to tie to him that he hadn't committed.

[646] He's not a match for them.

[647] Once they know the DNA, it's like, oh, they just want to put it all on this guy.

[648] We're done with that.

[649] And the truth is, nope, you've got other problems on your hands.

[650] Well, it's that belief that it's like these monsters, you know, are few and far between.

[651] Like, this is such an anomaly.

[652] And to find out that, no, it's fucking not.

[653] There's a lot of these people.

[654] And there are more in your community.

[655] I mean, the terror.

[656] Horrifying.

[657] And just so wild where it's like, that's truly like there's a rampaging monster.

[658] And somebody finally takes that monster down.

[659] And it's like, oh, yay.

[660] And then it's like, hold on, sorry.

[661] Two more monsters, we just can't see them right now.

[662] That's right.

[663] Because after he's locked up, there are dead mutilated bodies of area women found in the city of Baton Rouge.

[664] And they realize they have yet another serial killer in their mist.

[665] But that's a story.

[666] I'm going to cover coming up soon, part two.

[667] Part two.

[668] Yes.

[669] Oh, my God.

[670] I know.

[671] I was going to do them to.

[672] together, but they're so, like these two Butchers of the Bayo, they're so fucked up.

[673] They just had to have their own episode.

[674] Yeah, for sure.

[675] So Derek Todd Lee, sentenced to death by lethal injection in December 2004, he's held on death row at the maximum security, Louisiana State prison.

[676] The families of the victims have to go through appeal after appeal.

[677] And before he can face his fate, he dies of heart disease on January 21st, 2016 at the age of.

[678] of 47 and some families are glad it's just over and some families you know feel like he didn't get what he deserved and that is the story of serial killer derrick todd lee wow i know that's the thing that's going to stick with me he's stabbed charlotte murray pace 81 times 81 fucking times what kind of person yeah what's happening what's happening with that person i just can't You know, and we've said a lot of stuff about people being put to death and jail and stuff like that, but he died.

[679] You know what I mean?

[680] It's like, I can really see that because it's easy to get very emotional and very like results oriented when it comes to serial killers.

[681] Yeah.

[682] These are not normal people.

[683] These are not people getting arrested because their taillight was broken or something like that.

[684] These are people that are frenzy.

[685] and berserking and stabbing people 81 times and even still if he died by natural causes at least he's dead yeah and it's not like that idea that he's supposed to get a certain type of death that's the only way that you can right unhook from that cycle of trauma is terrible and sad me because i don't know it's just so extreme no one could imagine going through it it doesn't matter what you think your feeling would be it's just such a horrible horrible fact to be living in yeah definitely man that was insane yeah yeah that one was really hard to research for sure yeah well at least there's a part two and perhaps a part three you really signed up for it on that one my god but i really did i know I have a positive story next week.

[686] And then the following week, I'm going to do the other one.

[687] Oh, yeah.

[688] You kind of lace it throughout.

[689] Yeah.

[690] That's nice.

[691] You need a little break, you know?

[692] Smart.

[693] Well, great job.

[694] Thank you.

[695] Well, along that same line of changing it up for everyone's mental health, that's what we're going to do right now.

[696] Yay.

[697] That's what Alejandra and Hannah do for us when they plan out these stories.

[698] Uh -huh.

[699] So I think I've talked to you about this.

[700] Because my dad and I, when I go to his house for all the major holidays and to hang out with him, the one thing we can agree on, my dad and I, are World War II movies.

[701] Get the Nazis movies.

[702] Yeah.

[703] There's always a handful on, like, Netflix that you can find.

[704] So I watched this movie around Christmas time with my dad, and it was so good.

[705] And, of course, it's a true story because it's World War II.

[706] And so we find a movie from 2018 called The Twelfth Man. And we watch it.

[707] And I have never in one sitting heard my father used the phrase, you've got to be kidding me so many times.

[708] This story is so crazy.

[709] And it's such a great story of the Norwegian resistance, the Norwegian citizens who banded together to fight against the Nazis and also to save a Norwegian soldier, their fellow citizen.

[710] Today I'm going to tell you the survival story of a man named Jan Balserud.

[711] Amazing.

[712] So the main stories used in this are a 2016 article for the New York Times called The Fugitive, written by Robert Kolker, and a 2019 article from Recoil Off Grid.

[713] I guess that's a website, recoil off grid, entitled The World.

[714] World War II survival story of Jan Balcerud by a writer named Patrick McCarthy and all the other sources are in our show notes.

[715] So I'm going to give you first a little backstory on Norway.

[716] Stop me if you've heard this.

[717] So during World War I, Norway declared themselves neutral.

[718] They're pacifists, you know, and they actually were neutral in World War I. And then when World War II rolled around, their pacifism is no match for Hitler's insatiable need to conquer the world so Norway is invaded in 1940 and Nazis take over Oslo, Bergen, Trondheim, and Narvik there's also a really good movie called Narvick and it's on Netflix and keep seeing them all haven't you?

[719] I really have like ask me anything there's some great ones too it's just it's incredible because we as people who are in entertainment pay a lot of attention to entertainment When you watch a good story, you're like, oh, how did they come up with this?

[720] When you're watching true stories that they make into movies, you're like, I can't believe this is real.

[721] Yeah.

[722] And that's the longest way of saying truth is stranger than fiction or more interesting.

[723] But it really is like in wartime, these times where people have been like pushed to the very edge and this stuff people can actually like accomplish in those times.

[724] It's really amazing.

[725] That's what the story is about.

[726] So what we do know about Norway.

[727] the one thing everyone does know is it has fjords.

[728] They're famous for their fjords.

[729] Oh, sure.

[730] If you've never heard of a fjord, it's a little inlet of the sea that reaches very far inland.

[731] And so fjords begin to create kind of maze -like protection that if it was a ship that wasn't from around that area, it would have a really tough time navigating.

[732] And this is, of course, incredibly favorable naval positioning in times of war, the Nazis recognize that, and they want to take advantage of it.

[733] So April of 1940, Nazis invade Norway.

[734] They stake their claim over the land.

[735] They establish military bases in several of Norway's port cities.

[736] The vast majority of Norwegians want the Nazis gone, but there were a select few who were sympathizers, if not completely joining them.

[737] And one was named Vidkin Quistling.

[738] He was a Norwegian military officer.

[739] He was a right -wing politician, former diplomat.

[740] He welcomes the Nazis with open arms.

[741] He's also a white supremacist who is outspoken about his support for Hitler even before the invasion.

[742] So when the Nazis invade, they appoint Vidkin head of state.

[743] But Vidkin's political views do not reflect most of Norway's.

[744] And so the ordinary civilians of Norway banned together to fight the Noxie occupation, mostly by forming underground resistant groups that train in secret and work effortlessly to foil Nazi plots on their home turf.

[745] Now, there's a beginning of a story for you right there.

[746] You mean the regular butcher down the street and the little kid that's off at school, they're going to, they're in their resistance.

[747] Yes, they are.

[748] All right.

[749] So, One of these groups is called Company Linge.

[750] It's Norwegian Independent Company One, formed in March of 1941, and it's headed by Captain Martin Linge, who was an actor who had gone to military school in his youth.

[751] This company travels to Shetland, Scotland, to get trained by the British Special Operations Executive, and then when they come back, they all start different missions with the same goal to sabotage Nazis.

[752] Company Lynch's first raid, Operation Claymore, takes place in the spring of 1941.

[753] With the help of two British commandos, Company Lynch destroys German -controlled fish oil and glycerin factories in northern Norway's Lofoten Islands.

[754] So both fish oil and glycerin are chemicals used by the Nazis to make explosives.

[755] So when they complete this raid, they take 228 Nazi prisoners, including some of Vidkin Quistling's Nazi collaborators.

[756] And in their second raid, called Operation Archery, that takes place a few months later on December 27th, 1941, in the town of Malay on the southwestern Norwegian island of Vogse.

[757] So they're these trained underground, like, guerrilla fighters.

[758] Yes.

[759] that are, like, fighting back against their own, technically, their own people at this point.

[760] Fighting back against the occupying forces, the occupying German forces, essentially.

[761] And fighting back in very subtle ways.

[762] So it's like, uh -oh, suddenly your fish oil factory has exploded.

[763] Now you can't fuel any of these bombs or whatever kind of things that they're doing.

[764] All that kind of stuff that in the day -to -day, and also Narvik is very much like this.

[765] there's a woman who was working at the hotel that the Nazis take over and then the head Nazi kind of takes a liking to her so she very slowly but surely having that inside position just fucks things up here and there so that they don't know they don't hear about this and they don't know about that so it's the resistance on the inside Frank's here and he wants you to know about it so in Operation Archery their objective is to destroy the production of explosives chemicals But this time, Captain Lynch is actually killed in combat.

[766] So the rest of company Lynch has to continue their vital work to save Norway from the Nazis for the next four years without their leader.

[767] So in 1943, company Lynch's focus shifts from destroying German war supplies to destroying German war machines, the boats, the tanks, and the aircraft that they have all around the area.

[768] So on March 28th, a faction of the company sets out on one such mission called Operation Martin.

[769] I will test you on all the names of these operations.

[770] I hope you're writing them down.

[771] I mean, that's my dad's name.

[772] I'm not going to forget that one.

[773] Yeah, that one you'll remember.

[774] And because this is the, this actually is the inciting incident.

[775] So here we go.

[776] So on this operation, Operation Marty, their objective is to sneak into Tromso, which is a northern port city of Norway, where Nazis have secured an air and a sea.

[777] and basically blow up as much of the Germans' equipment as they possibly can.

[778] And the way they're going to do that is by taking a fishing boat called the Bratholm and filling it with explosives and essentially hiding it in plain sight.

[779] So this happened a lot where basically the citizens, the Norwegian citizens, would be there like, hey, I'm just fishing.

[780] It's no big deal.

[781] This is what I do all the time in one of our many fjords when actually what was in the boat was like filled with stuff because they were in.

[782] in it.

[783] They were in that resistance.

[784] So they were going to do that on a bigger fishing boat called the Bratholm.

[785] So the problem is that one of the members of company Linge reaches out to make contact with a local ally of the resistance.

[786] But unbeknownst to him, he actually is talking to a German imposter and telling the imposter the whole plan.

[787] And he realizes this the next morning when he sees the Nazi ships headed straight for them in the cove where.

[788] they're hiding.

[789] So he pilots the Bratham north, weaving through the fjords to escape the pursuing Nazis.

[790] They get cornered in a bay, Totefuran Bay, which is on the northeast side of an island called Rebene Soya.

[791] So they're trapped.

[792] Okay.

[793] They make a decision for themselves.

[794] Basically, they set a time -delayed fuse.

[795] All 12 guys jump onto a dingy and push off just as the Brathholm explodes.

[796] So essentially they're not going to get their stuff confiscated.

[797] Yeah.

[798] Right?

[799] They just blow up the boat and then they try to row away as fast as they can.

[800] Oh my God.

[801] But the Nazis open fire, killing one of the 12 men and sinking the dinghy.

[802] So now the remaining 11 try to swim away.

[803] Ten of them are captured and executed.

[804] And only now one man remains.

[805] And that is Jan Balserud.

[806] Holy shit.

[807] This part of the movie is so exciting because it kind of makes no sense how he escaped.

[808] They're just being, the Nazis are right on them shooting at them.

[809] And he's in this freezing cold water.

[810] It's Norway and it's like March.

[811] So it's like the end of winter freezing cold.

[812] So crazy that they just caught them and executed them.

[813] Like, yeah.

[814] It went from 12 to one fucking person.

[815] Like, oh my God.

[816] In the movie, and I would imagine.

[817] And it's not hard to imagine.

[818] Jonathan Rees Myers, he plays the Nazi that's basically like pursuing Jan the entire movie.

[819] And it's this thing where he tries to test out how long could somebody stay in this water realistically.

[820] And so he goes and gets in the water and he can only stay in the water for, you know, 30 seconds or something like it's so incredibly cold.

[821] But Jan grew up like that, right?

[822] Yes.

[823] He's like in it.

[824] And also he's, it's life or death for him.

[825] So it's not, he's not getting out anytime soon.

[826] It's a life or death cold plunge.

[827] Yeah.

[828] Fuck.

[829] The worst kind.

[830] Also, if you were an older woman, maybe closer to perimenopause, you're not supposed to do cold plunges.

[831] It's that kind of shit where everyone's like, you know, it's really good for you.

[832] It's like, unless it's not.

[833] Right.

[834] You know who they tested that on?

[835] Men.

[836] So, yeah.

[837] Probably best not to do it.

[838] Unless they have the same hormones you do.

[839] probably not don't go with it anyway let's get let's get out of the perimenopause update and back into this world war two gripping drama okay we're back so we're going to talk a little bit about yon real quick he was born on december 13th 1917 in what was called christiania norway but that's modern day oslo we've been there we did a fucking live show in oslo we met so many wonderful norwegian people in Oslo who spoke better English than both of us.

[840] That was the one I loved where somebody would walk up.

[841] I would say, hey, what's your name?

[842] And then they would go, and then I would be like, I'm sorry, I don't understand what you said.

[843] And they'd go, it's Rachel.

[844] And I'd be like, okay, thanks, Rachel, sorry.

[845] Like, full Norwegian talking until you asked them, please just speak English.

[846] And then it was like they were from Orange County.

[847] Right, right.

[848] Pretty genius.

[849] So, and also the majority of candy we got was from Oslo.

[850] And we had that candy for, I think there's still some left.

[851] Yeah.

[852] We had so much wonderful candy.

[853] There was also, when we were in Sweden, a ton of candy, too.

[854] Yeah.

[855] Oh, that's true.

[856] We picked it all up in our Scandinavian candy tour.

[857] Adventures.

[858] Okay, so, Jan was the son of an instrument maker, and he followed in his father's footsteps and went to school to become a cartographical instrument maker.

[859] So like the compass that you put on a map and you're like, we're 300 miles away.

[860] So he knew that kind of stuff.

[861] He graduates from school in 1939 at age 22.

[862] So the next year is when the Nazis invade Norway.

[863] So Jan flees to Sweden, which has managed to remain neutral up until that point.

[864] He spends the next year traveling from Sweden to the Soviet Union, then to Africa, then to the United States.

[865] Finally, he lands in Great Britain in 1941, but it's while he's in Great Britain that he learns about company Linge and that the fact that they're training nearby up in Scotland.

[866] Remember I told you about that?

[867] So he goes and joins them, trains alongside his fellow countrymen, and in 1943, he returns home to Norway to fight the Nazis at age 25.

[868] Damn.

[869] Yeah.

[870] When they launch Operation Martin, Jan's job is to swim up.

[871] up to the Nazi sea planes, attach underwater magnetic explosives to them, and blow them up.

[872] So now that that plan is foiled and Jan is on his own in ice cold water and surrounded by the enemy, he has to improvise.

[873] So clearly, you know, like cold plunge swimming was his specialty because that's who got picked to do that to their Nazi sea plants.

[874] Right.

[875] So in the midst of Nazi gunfire, Jan is able to swim 70 yards through Arctic waters.

[876] until he reaches the shores of that little island of Rebana Soya.

[877] Rebana Soya, maybe.

[878] He takes cover in a ravine and hides behind a large rock but the Nazis are everywhere.

[879] They're on him.

[880] They know one guy got away.

[881] They're not going to let him get away.

[882] And if there is any truth to the portrayal of this Nazi in the movie, he's like, no, like if this guy gets away, that's my reputation.

[883] Right, right.

[884] So they're like, you have to get him.

[885] it's one guy, it's freezing cold water.

[886] There's no way he could have survived that.

[887] It's fucking Norwegian Rambo all of a sudden.

[888] Yes, the best.

[889] Yeah.

[890] The best kind of Rambo.

[891] So basically he hides there surrounded by Nazis and finally two Nazi soldiers come up on him.

[892] But Jan still has his snub nose colt revolver on him.

[893] So he shoots both.

[894] He kills one and he injures another.

[895] It's enough to buy him some time to run up the hill.

[896] and this is when he realizes one of his feet is bare because in the explosion he lost a boot in the water oh my god so now he's soaking wet he is running through the Norwegian winter and he has a barefoot so he runs up the hill he takes cover and he waits until nighttime and then he starts walking around the island trying to find help and mercifully he does find it in the form of two young girls.

[897] So by the time he finds these young girls, his uniform is frozen solid.

[898] That's how, because he's soaking wet and then he's walking around in the winter.

[899] Luckily, the girl's family heard Jan's commando boat explode.

[900] They feared for their lives, so they fled inland to another family member's house.

[901] And they lead Jan back to their aunt's home.

[902] The adults inside warm him next to the fire.

[903] They take off his literally, frozen uniform they give him dry clothes and food and although he's grateful for their help yon knows that if he stays with this family the nazis will kill them for helping him yeah so he has to get out of there he knows that he has to keep running and basically that the only way that he's going to survive is if he makes it to sweden where basically the nazis can't get him once he crosses the border to sweden so once he's sufficiently warm again yon heads out without telling the family his plan.

[904] He knows that the less they know, the safer there are.

[905] But before he leaves, he does make sure to impress upon the youngest member of the family, a 10 -year -old girl named Dagmar, Dagmar Idripsen.

[906] He impresses upon her the importance of keeping a secret.

[907] He says, if she ever tells anyone that he was there, she and everyone she loves will be murdered.

[908] Just a quick note before I leave, which meanwhile, hey dummy, she's a girl.

[909] She gets it.

[910] She's going to keep that secret.

[911] She's not a boy.

[912] She's going to zip it.

[913] Okay, so Jan sets out for Sweden.

[914] And basically, he sticks with this approach throughout the journey.

[915] Don't tell anyone where you've been, who you've met, where you're going.

[916] He only knocks on people's doors if he is absolutely desperate, not only because he knows that he's risking, knocking on a Nazi sympathizer's door, somebody that could turn him in, but to his great luck, every time he gets desperate enough to knock on someone's door, he only finds people who support the resistance.

[917] So there were not very many Nazi sympathizers at all.

[918] One woman is a midwife, and she offers to hide Jan in her home by disguising him as a pregnant woman going into labor.

[919] But he says, thank you, but I have to keep going into two risky.

[920] When he's forced to stop again, he finds refuge with the man who supports the resistance, but the man's neighbor who works for the Nazis stops by for a visit.

[921] Somehow this man manages to hide Yon and get rid of the fascist neighbor before they can find Yon.

[922] At some point later in his journey, when Yon finds a rocky, kind of watery pass that he needs to get across, he meets a kind man with a boat who is willing to row him throughout this difficult corridor in the dark of night right past Nazi guards.

[923] So this was that kind of beauty of hiding in plain sight I was talking about.

[924] Yeah.

[925] We're just like they were very, very brave.

[926] You would call them ordinary citizens, but they're not because they're doing shit like this, like knowing they're just helping a soldier.

[927] Wow.

[928] So even with all the help of these kind strangers, the elements are too harsh for almost anyone to endure.

[929] Jan gets frostbite on his feet.

[930] His toes begin to turn black and decay in the cold, but he keeps going.

[931] And a stroke of good luck comes when a fisherman gifts him with a new pair of boots and a set of skis to help him cross the snowy landscape faster.

[932] Whoa.

[933] These skis are so effective that on one morning, Jan glides right past a group of Nazis enjoying their breakfast.

[934] He's moving so quickly, the soldiers don't even have a chance, to pay him any mind, let alone peg him for a fugitive.

[935] So it's this kind of thing of like, who me, nothing.

[936] I'm just, I'm just cross -country skiing.

[937] No big deal.

[938] Right.

[939] Right.

[940] But then a blizzard hits and Jan gets thrown off course.

[941] By the time the snow stops, the UV rays bouncing off the ice and the snow burn his eyes and he becomes temporarily blind.

[942] He gets snow blindness.

[943] Oh, shit.

[944] So he finds himself on the side of Mount Yegeva.

[945] This is an icy mountain with a 3 ,000 -foot peak.

[946] He knows he's on a slope, but he's so disoriented.

[947] He can't tell if he's traveling upwards or downwards.

[948] Damn.

[949] He's still got the skis on, by the way.

[950] Okay.

[951] So as if skiing itself isn't hard enough, but now you're skiing snowblind.

[952] Yon keeps himself from falling off the ledge of his path by throwing snowballs and listening for them to hit the ground.

[953] If he hears them drop, he moves forward.

[954] If he hears nothing, he turns and heads the other direction.

[955] Oh, my God.

[956] Blind skiing.

[957] No. Just nightmare.

[958] No. By this point, Yon's made it about 50 miles with the Nazis hot on his trail.

[959] Wow.

[960] Frozen, partially barefoot.

[961] Well, not really barefoot anymore.

[962] That was from before.

[963] Blind.

[964] And he still hasn't gotten caught.

[965] And then on or around April 4th, 1943, an avalanche hits.

[966] No. Yep.

[967] It slams Yon.

[968] 300 feet down the mountain to the valley below, he's knocked out.

[969] And when he wakes up, he's buried in the snow with a concussion.

[970] His skis are broken and his backpack of supplies is nowhere to be found.

[971] Oh, fuck.

[972] With limited vision and impaired cognitive functioning, because he hit his head really hard, Jan musters up the strength to dig himself out of the snow.

[973] Oh my God.

[974] And what's the trick we learned for getting caught in an avalanche and being stuck in snow?

[975] Spit.

[976] And whichever way the spit goes, that's up.

[977] That's right.

[978] No, that's down.

[979] That's down.

[980] Yeah, spit goes down.

[981] Classic my favorite murder help is it's half wrong and you can figure it out better by yourself.

[982] The wrong half with the wrong.

[983] The wrong.

[984] The important half.

[985] So once he digs himself out, he can't orient himself or figure out what direction he's supposed to go, but he just keeps going.

[986] He has to keep going.

[987] He's hoping that he's going south toward the Swedish border he doesn't know he walks for three days now on top of his snow blindness he begins to hallucinate he begins to hear the voices of his fellow resistance fighters from his commando in their final screams as the nazis capture and kill them so he is going through it on the fourth day of his post avalanche wandering which is april 8th tiny village of Furuflaten.

[988] In a truly miraculous coincidence, this home belongs to the sister of a member of their resistance.

[989] Holy shit.

[990] Yeah.

[991] A man named Marius Granville.

[992] So with the help of Marius' family and friends in the village, they are able to hide Jan in the family's barn loft, and they do their best to nurse him back to health while he's there.

[993] Twice the Nazis come and search the barn.

[994] And twice they fail to find Jan hidden behind a pile of hay in the loft.

[995] He's not, it's not like they built a special area for him, nothing like that.

[996] He just gets away with it.

[997] Oh, my God.

[998] Yeah.

[999] After about four days, Jan regains his sanity, but his frostbite has gotten so bad that he can no longer walk on his own.

[1000] But he has to keep going or the Nazis will find him and kill him and whoever's hiding him.

[1001] So Marius and a few others load Jan. onto a stretcher, and, while pretending to fish, they sneak him past occupying Nazis and into a rowboat.

[1002] Wow.

[1003] Marius and his friends row yon across the fjord with a plan to carry him the rest of the way to freedom.

[1004] Jesus.

[1005] So now it's April 12, 1943.

[1006] How long has he been on the road for?

[1007] I was just about to tell you, two weeks.

[1008] Two fucking weeks.

[1009] Two weeks.

[1010] Yeah.

[1011] When they reached the other side of the fjord, they realized the land there is too steep.

[1012] for them to just carry him straight up themselves.

[1013] They know if they're going to get Yon to safety.

[1014] They need a sled to pull him in.

[1015] And that's going to take some work.

[1016] So right now he's on like a stretcher.

[1017] So they stash Yon in a nearby six by nine shed.

[1018] So a tiny shed.

[1019] They leave him with food, water, a knife, a lamp, and some hard liquor to last him a couple days.

[1020] And I almost said yawn yokingly.

[1021] Jan jokingly refers to this setup as the hotel Savoy.

[1022] So back in the village of Furu Flaten, Marius and his friends and his team recruit a school teacher who's also a woodworker and they ask him to build this sled.

[1023] And of course, he has to do it in secret because the Nazis are regularly using the schoolhouse as their meeting place.

[1024] So this school teacher has the brilliant idea of building the sled in pieces so that Marius and his friends can carry the pieces by boat back across the fjord and then assemble it at the foot of the hill.

[1025] So a sled won't ever be found being assembled.

[1026] Yeah.

[1027] So meanwhile, Jan is spending days in this shed waiting for them.

[1028] He rations out his food to try to make it last.

[1029] Marius manages to be able to pay him a visit a few days in to make sure he's okay but he's not the frostbite on his feet is getting worse and now gangrene has set in so and this is the part oh no do you can skip ahead 30 if not 60 seconds oh dear no I can't do yeah you can't you have to stay in this with me I stayed in yours with you you have to stay in this with me okay yon takes the knife marius left him He holds it under the flame of his lamp, heats the blade, slices into his dying skin, allowing the infection to drain so that it doesn't spread further.

[1030] But that's not enough.

[1031] It doesn't work.

[1032] And he knows that his frostbitten toes are only going to make that gangrene worse.

[1033] So he's forced to perform several crude amputation on his own toes to save his foot.

[1034] No. Yes.

[1035] No, no, no. in a little shitty shed Finally, the sled is complete But then bad weather delays Marius And the guys for another few days No And you know, these Nazis are on his trail Yeah So this is time they don't have to spend Yeah The weather finally clears They row across the fjord They find Jan bloody and starving They load him onto the sled And together they pull him up the steep hill another 2 ,700 feet.

[1036] Once they get near the top, they're forced to leave him in a carved out boulder so that basically, so no one notices they're gone.

[1037] They can't just go on the full trip with him.

[1038] They realize if, you know, if the Nazis in town notice that they're gone, they're going to, that's how they're going to be on to them.

[1039] So they just stow him essentially under a big rock.

[1040] Dude.

[1041] On this stretcher.

[1042] And they leave him there and they're like, we're going to be back tomorrow if not the next day well it's nine days before they come back this poor guy yeah in this stretcher time yon basically he has had a bottomless well of hope for this entire journey and this is the first time that it runs out and he actually contemplates ending his life there are some accounts that say that yon actually tried to pull the trigger on on his colts and it was frozen and it didn't shoot.

[1043] There are others who say he only considered it because he was so low and there was so much stacked against him.

[1044] Either way, when the men return to the hiding spot, Jan is still alive and he is, of course, they're very happy to see each other.

[1045] I'm sitting here freezing right now too.

[1046] Like, I think just somehow I'm getting into my head.

[1047] I'm turning the heat on.

[1048] The idea that he swam and then had to get out and walk around in the freezing cold.

[1049] I feel like from that moment I would never be warm again.

[1050] No, yeah.

[1051] It would just be like, you can give me all the thermals you want.

[1052] It's not going to work.

[1053] Sit by a fire, but you fucked.

[1054] Yeah.

[1055] Okay, so their plan of traveling with Jan away is pausing and then resuming after a few days continues on for weeks.

[1056] And each time Jan reaches a new village, the previous group passes him off to a new group of local allies that take him on the next leg of the journey.

[1057] Oh, okay.

[1058] Over the course of a little more than two months.

[1059] Holy shit.

[1060] Yon makes it to the border of Finland.

[1061] It's like a relay race.

[1062] Exactly.

[1063] With a Nazi resistor.

[1064] Yes.

[1065] It's the regular people of these little villages.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] Are just like, oh yeah, we'll get involved.

[1068] Absolutely.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] We'll do this.

[1071] We'll save this man's life.

[1072] We'll save this member of the resistance.

[1073] Amazing.

[1074] Up to the point where basically they have to cross through one part of Finland, which has basically been taken over by the Nazis.

[1075] It's Nazi territory at that point to get to Sweden.

[1076] So when they get to this part, the people from his last leg of his journey reach out to a group of the Sami people who are the indigenous tribe in Norway asking them for assistance.

[1077] So basically, the Sami people attach Yon's sled to a a team of reindeer.

[1078] Aww.

[1079] And those reindeer pull him through that last leg of the trip to get to the border of Sweden.

[1080] And in the movie, this part is so beautiful because the Nazis are there kind of on lookouts right at the border.

[1081] It's the border, right?

[1082] So this is their occupied territory.

[1083] They know over there is neutral.

[1084] Yeah.

[1085] And so anybody trying to leave or anything, they're there.

[1086] and what they see is a bunch of reindeer running really fast through a bunch of other reindeer because it's like just this big kind of in the movie at least it was like a tundra shot yeah and so it just looks like there's reindeer running and then the Nazis don't realize it until the sled is far enough away that the reindeer are pulling a sled holy shit and then basically it's it's such a cool thing because it's almost like these elements that he's been fighting this whole time finally are on his side and help him.

[1087] But really, it's the Sami people that helped him and made that brilliant plan where it's like, let the reindeer do it.

[1088] They'll fix it.

[1089] So he crosses the Finland -Sweden border.

[1090] And at last, Jan Balzruid has reached the safety of neutral Sweden.

[1091] When he arrives on around June 1st, 1943, the Sami people find locals and ask for help.

[1092] And those locals call the Red Cross.

[1093] The Red Cross sends a seaplane that takes Yon to a hospital in Bowden, Sweden.

[1094] When he's admitted he weighs 80 pounds.

[1095] Whoa.

[1096] He spends six months in the hospital.

[1097] I almost said in hospital like a British person.

[1098] He spends six months in the hospital regaining his eyesight from the snow blindness.

[1099] So he was blind that whole time.

[1100] Oh my God.

[1101] And re -learning how to once his infections and self -administered amputation wounds are healed.

[1102] And as soon as he recovers, he goes back to Scotland, where he begins training the next round of Norwegian resistance soldiers.

[1103] Dude.

[1104] Right back in.

[1105] When the war ends in 1945, Jan returns home to Norway to see the end of the Nazi's occupation with his own eyes.

[1106] His affinity for his home country stronger than ever.

[1107] Jan marries his wife, Evie.

[1108] They have a daughter named Live, and they settle back in Oslo at the time, Christiana, to live out the rest of their lives together.

[1109] In 1957, Jan is named chairman of the Norwegian Disabled Veterans Union, and he holds that position until 1964.

[1110] On December 30th, 1988, at the age of 71, Jan Baselrud passes away of natural causes.

[1111] They couldn't get him with the frostbite.

[1112] They couldn't get him with the gang.

[1113] no they couldn't get him with direct gunshots toward his head and body wow so there are several landmarks that commemorate yon's journey and his bravery including a museum in furu flotten there's also a street bearing his name in cole boaton and there's an annual remembrance march on july 25th where the locals retrace part of his path over a nine -day stretch wow Years later, Jan's second cousin, Tor Hogg, told the New York Times in a 2016 interview that while there have been books written and movies made about Jan's experiences, he felt none had truly captured the key to his survival.

[1114] So Tor himself set out to write a book of his own called Defiant Courage.

[1115] It was published in 2001, and it was co -authored by Astrid Carlson Scott.

[1116] And Tor said, my intention was to honor all of his helpers because that's what Jan would have wanted.

[1117] And that is the survival story of the Norwegian hero, Jan Balcerud, and the heroic efforts of all the Norwegian citizens who joined the resistance and helped keep him alive.

[1118] Wow.

[1119] The reindeer!

[1120] Especially the reindeer.

[1121] They're randiers that went on to pull Santa Slay that year.

[1122] Oh, wow.

[1123] Oh, my God.

[1124] Good one, great one.

[1125] You did it again.

[1126] Did it again.

[1127] Me and Jim, watching Christmas shows, watching entertainment during the holidays.

[1128] This is why you've got to watch more TV, everyone.

[1129] I think we say it every time.

[1130] We truly do.

[1131] Why are you listening to podcasts when you should be watching streaming television?

[1132] Don't leave the house.

[1133] just watch, sit on the couch and watch TV.

[1134] Really quickly, I'm joking about that because I cannot tell you how furious I have become when I turn on streaming services that I pay subscription fees for and there are commercials.

[1135] Bullshit.

[1136] Yes, absolutely.

[1137] Bullshit.

[1138] Bullshit.

[1139] This world is a mess.

[1140] I mean, for all the things we've talked about in this episode and more.

[1141] Truly.

[1142] But you're not a mess and we appreciate you tuning in, even if you are a mess to our podcast more so if you are a mess because how did you make it here congratulations welcome to your tribe you're the yon balserode of your life that's right you've done it your cats are your reindeer's oh oh take care of your toes that's right thanks for listening guys we appreciate you so much and stay sexy and don't get murdered good way Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1143] This has been an exactly right production.

[1144] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1145] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[1146] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1147] This episode was mixed by Liana Skolace.

[1148] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1149] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1150] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.

[1151] Goodbye.