Sports! – The Eagles Are Back!

[0] Hey, everyone.

[1] Welcome back to Remap Sports, a sports -adjacent podcast that sets out to disprove the notion that people with lives dedicated to pixels jumping across the screen can't also be unhealthily interested in what nerds constantly refer to as Sports Bowl every Super Bowl.

[2] Rob, let's start every episode asking about the Bears, but I have to ask what the fuck is going on in Dallas.

[3] Well, I'm surprised because I think the question the country is asking across the board is, is the Chicago Bulls championship window closed?

[4] now that they are moving on from Zach Levine.

[5] I think that is the news that shook the basketball world.

[6] Poor Zach Levine.

[7] Too much was put on.

[8] That is the bad front office management than it is Zach Levine not living up to a contract that you just have to give out to superstars like that.

[9] I'm of two minds about it.

[10] It's like Zach Levine was a great player for a completely different construction of the team.

[11] But then he was sticking around as they were moving to any more.

[12] Wow, they've really got some guys they can distribute to and get some production from lots of people.

[13] The only thing you can break this is a volume scorer who needs to be left out there until he gets hot.

[14] Well, so many.

[15] I mean, we could do that.

[16] Or we can finally make good on a promise that Mr. Austin Walker made to us, which was one of two things, two paths.

[17] Do the Philadelphia Eagles make it to the Super Bowl?

[18] All right, I'll come on your podcast.

[19] If my Philadelphia Eagles lose in the playoffs, I'll come on your podcast.

[20] I'll come on the podcast.

[21] You made it to the Super Bowl.

[22] Here we are.

[23] Two years later, we're back.

[24] We'll do a little rerun.

[25] Your version of we're back.

[26] It seems so much more fun than the version that Rob and I talk about.

[27] We're back as like, did they hire a competent O -line coach so that we don't have a historic sack rate for a young quarterback?

[28] You was like, well, four years later, we're back to the Super Bowl for a rematch in which actually we might be a credible favorite if not for the fact.

[29] It's not even four years, Patrick.

[30] It was two years ago.

[31] Two years.

[32] It's nothing.

[33] I hate it.

[34] It was nothing.

[35] I hate it.

[36] And we lost maybe one of the best players we ever had in between with Jason Kelsey leaving.

[37] Like, it's not like we, you know what I mean?

[38] It's as though it didn't happen.

[39] It's as though it didn't happen.

[40] Yeah, it's wild.

[41] I don't know if you remember the Eagle season last year where we strung together 10 wins or something somehow.

[42] And every win was like every Kansas City Chiefs win this year.

[43] Where it was like, are they good or are they lucky?

[44] What's happening?

[45] At the end of every game, there was a fumble.

[46] There was a kick that was blocked or missed or whatever.

[47] That was us last year.

[48] And then we completely crumbled in the final act of the regular season and then got demolished in the postseason.

[49] This year.

[50] It's like, that didn't happen.

[51] It's going to be a memory hold.

[52] How bad?

[53] The Eagles were on the precipice of firing everybody, starting over.

[54] That was this year even.

[55] Four games in, we were like, we're going to get rid of Nick.

[56] Nick is fucking done.

[57] You had what's -his -face Matt Patricia with a pencil on his ear calling defense.

[58] Here is my question.

[59] This is my question.

[60] Who did more to save this thing?

[61] Saquon or Vic Fangio?

[62] It's both of them.

[63] I think without either of them, it's the classic just winning season.

[64] Maybe we still, I think we lose the division to the commanders this year.

[65] We get it on a wild card.

[66] We lose in the first round.

[67] Everyone's fucking gone.

[68] Guillotine drops on Nick Sirianni's head.

[69] We gut the team.

[70] We trade AJ.

[71] It's like we do everything to go into a rebuild mode.

[72] Instead, I think the combination of Saquon being the poster boy hero of the team and then Vic Fangio's incredible defense.

[73] Also, the defense is just stacked.

[74] I don't want to take away from the actual players, but Vic is clearly a genius.

[75] And he's like a defensive coordinator's defensive coordinator.

[76] It just occurred to me. Yeah.

[77] Vic Fangio's going to be calling a game against Matt Nagy.

[78] Yeah.

[79] That's who we used to work for at the Bears.

[80] And saved and gave the Bears their one good season.

[81] Remains unclear how much Matt Nagy does on the Kansas City Chiefs.

[82] But yes, he is on their offensive staff.

[83] And when he is constantly in Patrick Mahomes' ear, but I don't think it's ever been made clear what exactly going on there from a play call.

[84] What does Matt Nagy do in Kansas City?

[85] He's the offensive coordinator there?

[86] He is technically the offensive coordinator, yeah.

[87] But yes, that is right.

[88] Kansas City has the opposite situation that the Eagles do, which is they have a genius head coach who you can imagine can coach every aspect of the game in Andy Reid.

[89] My favorite coach of all time obviously led the Eagles to a Super Bowl that they lost in the 2000s.

[90] I have nothing but love for Andy Reid.

[91] I'm mad at my city for getting rid of Andy in the 2000s, like classic fickle Philadelphia.

[92] What got him?

[93] Was it just like in the way that like Lovie Smith was fired from the Bears because they went, I think, 10 and six, but didn't make the playoffs.

[94] And then we fired the most competent coach we had had since 85.

[95] Was it a similar sort of like.

[96] Well, it's good, but not good enough.

[97] Did they bring Chip Kelly in after him?

[98] They fucking did, and Chip Kelly is a nightmare.

[99] I see that he's back in the conversation right now.

[100] Have you heard any of these interviews with people who worked for Chip Kelly in the Eagles years?

[101] Where everyone is like, oh yeah, he was, like, the intonation is, he was racist.

[102] But the specifics were like, he...

[103] was specifically harder on black players he was like a real pull your pants up type of guy and he didn't want anyone to he worked everybody hard in a way where they didn't get to feel like they were talented or smart like all of the stories that have come out from eagles players from that era are like the reason the team fell apart for years is because of chip kelly and like this is like la sean mccoy who's obviously a big mouth dude like that's what shady is but he's also one of the best running backs that the eagles have ever had and like someone who's like well i don't want to run for him like i didn't i stopped caring about winning so giving that team to chip kelly maybe the one bad thing and then kelly was like blessed him you know he picked a quarterback right he got his quarterback he got um god who was it at the time yeah it was uh did he get foals was that the no i don't know it was foals because it was because i mean we wentz was our guy right foals yeah yeah maybe it was wentz but i think he was gone by the time it was wentz I'm pretty sure because he was only there until 20.

[104] But didn't Chip Kelly have like one really good year with the Eagles?

[105] That sounds right.

[106] And that's why he became the poster child for college guru.

[107] You get one good year out of those guys in the NFL and then they get figured out and they just do not have the chops to go into a bag of tricks because there's a trick.

[108] That is exactly right.

[109] Andy Reid goes 4 -12 in 2012.

[110] Sorry, yeah, 4 -12 in 2012.

[111] And the next year Chip Kelly brings him to 10 -6.

[112] And then they lose in the wild card round.

[113] And then the same thing basically happens for another year.

[114] And then that's that, you know?

[115] So.

[116] Well, he just got hired to go to the Raiders.

[117] Good luck there, man. Quality move from a quality franchise.

[118] Well, once you got Tom Brady as your minority owner, I mean, you know, sky's the limit.

[119] People are looking to Brady to fix that, right?

[120] Because the theory is the Raiders owner is so suggestible.

[121] One of my favorite things was Pablo Torre described Mark Davis's relationship with John Gruden is he hired the second life avatar version of himself.

[122] uh because if you look at them side by side like john gruden was the like better looking like guy who like mark davis wants to be uh he hired him as the coach when you're in the character creator like no this is just me like this is what i'm supposed to look like and so i genuinely it seems like the hope is that because mark davis fundamentally wants people to like and respect him and wants to like people think he's wants people to think he's cool He will have that relationship with Brady and Brady, who at least has the virtue of not being a fool, can be like, well, this is what football teams do, Mark.

[123] And Mark will be like, yeah, I think maybe we should do that.

[124] That is that is the hope is that like Brady in between kind of being a. Underwhelming commentator, we'll just be like, what if we hire the good guy?

[125] But I don't know that Chip Kelly is the direction that we're going to see.

[126] I have my big doubts, but I also just have doubts about the Raiders in general.

[127] The Raiders don't have a quarterback.

[128] The Raiders don't.

[129] They're at number six in the draft, which means even if you want a quarterback, I'm not sure.

[130] We'll see what happens with Shadur Sanders.

[131] People are going to convince themselves to draft him.

[132] The NFL doesn't really want them to be good.

[133] The whole theory is that that is everyone's vacation game.

[134] Every game is a home game for the Raiders, no matter who they're playing.

[135] uh like that thing is just going to generate i think it's going to generate uh ticket revenue the a's are the a's moving into that exact no they're moving to a different uh right have the a's gotten out of their real estate like how my understanding is they're going to be in this like temporary stadium for a few years right but i think the problem is it's like It's like temporary where you like you sell your house.

[136] You got it for like copper in the walls.

[137] You move into a shitty little rental.

[138] And then for the first time ever, you check home prices.

[139] Like literally like the first time you're like, hey, so what's a home cost?

[140] And you open Zillow and you realize you made a huge.

[141] That is my understanding where the where the A's left.

[142] And also in this whole process, they demonstrated.

[143] that they are a wildly untrustworthy counterparty for any city that's negotiating with them.

[144] So.

[145] Yeah, well, oh, we'll see.

[146] It looks like it's happening.

[147] I mean, there's there's enough money in like, you know, eventually something.

[148] Yeah.

[149] And they're they already did.

[150] I mean, watching that was one of the most upsetting sports stories.

[151] It's so upsetting.

[152] It's like one thing to lose your team.

[153] To another city.

[154] Like just because of some sort of dispute.

[155] But the way this happened.

[156] Where the owners clearly just didn't even want to run.

[157] And this happens a lot in baseball.

[158] Like far more than any other sport.

[159] Baseball owners loathe the fact that they are baseball owners.

[160] Like I'm like mad constantly at like the McCaskies.

[161] But like they like football.

[162] They're bad at it.

[163] They have no skills in running a football team.

[164] But they genuinely like and like want to do right by the team.

[165] He's a nightmare person who has destroyed what was one of the most winning franchises in the history of the sport over the last 30 years.

[166] But he loves football.

[167] That's why he's ruined it.

[168] And he got to do it with his family, as you all saw that clip from Land Van.

[169] Sorry, Billy Bob Thornton, where he explains, look, someday you're going to be reaching the end of your journey.

[170] And you're going to have your friends and your associates gather around your bedside.

[171] Now, who would you rather those people be?

[172] Business people or your family?

[173] What if they were both?

[174] That's why nepotism is good.

[175] It's funny that that scene, he's speaking like he's already dead.

[176] Like he already had his family around his bedside when he died.

[177] The scene rocks.

[178] Like the scene absolutely cool.

[179] He's really good.

[180] And I do think like obviously.

[181] Um, you know, you're getting, uh, who's the guy who made Yellowstone, all the shows, the Sheridan.

[182] Yeah.

[183] Uh, but so he's getting Sheridan to put these words in his mouth.

[184] Like what is the most poetical way to like have Jerry Jones give a self portrait.

[185] But I do wonder if there's, there's some element of that, which is like the rap on Jerry was always, he wants it to be fun, but also Patrick.

[186] I mean, maybe this is just the flip side of some of these things really are just family businesses.

[187] And so for the Bears, they're an old legacy family that the industry has grown around them and they haven't like fundamentally learned how to grow with it.

[188] They're a north side regional business with a big sprawling family that can't quite figure it out.

[189] And Jerry Jones is a big Dallas oil man who just wants to go into the office and like see his son.

[190] and like make make decisions about players with his with his boys but then also have a bigger family right the cowboys nation the cowboys nation america's team i almost feel sorry you know i've been on here y 'all know how i feel about the cowboys i grew up hating them They were America's team.

[191] The Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith era was so, as an Eagles fan, they were our number one rival.

[192] They were incredible.

[193] They were nightmarish to play against.

[194] But every once in a while, we got one over on them, and it felt fantastic.

[195] But it's been so long since they were good, and Jerry is such a nuisance.

[196] I couldn't decide if I wanted to say nuisance or tumor.

[197] I didn't know how hard I wanted to go.

[198] You know, like, y 'all saw him...

[199] threatening the careers of local radio journalists and stuff or journalists on the radio and stuff.

[200] Like he's hitting, he's hitting a tipping point sort of mentally where like so much of what he does is a performance.

[201] Right.

[202] And there's no more like accentuated by that little like clip where he actually does some like, Oh man, I can't believe this ghoul is making me tear up a little bit in this out of context scene for a show that tens of millions of people watch, but I don't know any of them.

[203] Um, and, but now he seems like he's hit like, There are times where you're generally like, okay, like who's watching Jerry?

[204] Because why is he threatening the hosts of this?

[205] And stuff like that has happened a couple of times over the past, like even this, like, you know, Mike McCarthy, the coach that Rob and I were desperately afraid, but beginning to rationalize as the future head coach of the Chicago Bears.

[206] They basically just didn't pay him because he didn't, he doesn't want to pay a coach.

[207] He doesn't want to pay a coach.

[208] Like, his franchise is in tatters, and yet it's one of the most valuable IPs in the world.

[209] And the one thing that doesn't count against your salary cap is paying coaches.

[210] You can just pay them whatever you want.

[211] Instead, he just goes down the hall to get Brian Schottenheimer, who's already in the building.

[212] Like, oh, that guy seems fine.

[213] I just don't get it.

[214] I don't get it.

[215] Who was it I saw the clip of asking, like, was it Troy?

[216] Where they were talking about, I think there's only like when the Dion rumors were going around, which, God, why?

[217] Please give, why didn't we get that?

[218] I know.

[219] But those rumors are going around.

[220] Maybe Google after Colorado, after his Colorado, is the Colorado contract over already?

[221] Is he re -upping the Colorado contract?

[222] These contracts tend to end when Dion wants them to end.

[223] Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure.

[224] Someone's going to buy him out.

[225] But that's also what a lot of these sort of faux interviews are when they're doing head coaching searches is like the networks of people who know each other in football.

[226] You can very much imagine, sometimes it's formal where you bring in a college coach for an interview just as a way of like, hey, you can go back and now ask for more money because you have the threat of this.

[227] Sanders, by all accounts, that just seemed like that was him doing Sanders a solid, like, hey, if you want to go renegotiate your contract, like, ooh, you can say you could be the coach of the college.

[228] And yet the two sides are so patently ridiculous that the pairing would make all the sense in the world.

[229] And I was rooting for it.

[230] That's what I want.

[231] I wanted that.

[232] So I wanted them to trade Dak Prescott, who deserves to be – he seems like a really nice guy, really talented.

[233] Go to Minnesota or something and bring the Sanders -Jones show to the Cowboys.

[234] We'd be feasting.

[235] But I remember I think it was on one of the roundtable shows, and I want to say it might have been – it was like someone coming from close to inside the house where they're talking about, well, this is one of the plum jobs in the NFL.

[236] Someone's like, is it, though?

[237] Because what you're dealing with there is kind of a bad track record and an owner that has not figured it out and won't take his hands off the wheel in 30 years where they haven't been winning.

[238] And haven't been, for instance, signing your contracts early in the offseason so that you're not paying a ridiculous surcharge because a whole round of contracts happened.

[239] Not Amari Cooper.

[240] C. Lamb.

[241] Yeah, both of them.

[242] Why would you?

[243] I think Prescott's deal was announced the day before.

[244] The head of kickoff on the first day of the season just for maximum news cycle.

[245] Hadn't he done that with Emmitt Smith back in the day, too?

[246] I think Emmitt missed games.

[247] That's wild.

[248] I don't get it, man. I think, again, the small business owner thing.

[249] I'm sure we've all worked with a variation of the guy where it's like it's payday.

[250] And they act.

[251] Like you are taking you are taking their wallet out of their pocket and taking their taking their folded money away.

[252] And they're like, oh, oh, you think you deserve that money?

[253] Really?

[254] Because I don't know.

[255] I didn't.

[256] I saw you like.

[257] You know, sitting down the other day instead of like spot cleaning.

[258] He's kind of got that attitude where it's like, you think I should pay you?

[259] But the problem is that the pay schedules are pretty well known in football.

[260] Like this is kind of like here is the market value for a player.

[261] There's not a lot of options.

[262] And he just keeps balking and being like, fuck that.

[263] I ain't going to pay that.

[264] And then it seems like agents just tell their guys like, hey, just be cool.

[265] Don't worry about it.

[266] Jerry's going to pay more when the time comes because he's going to leave it too late.

[267] Yeah.

[268] Yeah.

[269] Yesterday's price is not today's price, man. Have you all talked about Ben Johnson yet?

[270] No, that's the last time we recorded that.

[271] That happened like hours after.

[272] Again, there was a bit of a Mike McCarthy.

[273] Right.

[274] Like, I'm just I'm accepting this.

[275] You know what?

[276] He is a scare.

[277] He is.

[278] He is a high floor, low ceiling candidate.

[279] And maybe the Bears, you know, I'm like, I'm trying to get myself there.

[280] Like, how am I going to watch Mike McCarthy lose to the Packers on the sidelines at Soldier Field when he's we got him fired during the one good season we had increasingly long ago?

[281] And I'd, I'd accepted it in my heart.

[282] Uh, and then instead we did, we got, uh, uh, Lions, uh, offensive coordinator, Ben Johnson, who by all accounts, like, I mean, this is the fucked up thing.

[283] Uh, Rob, all the reporting suggests if they just done what you and I wanted, like fire, like hand the, like he would have come in and he would have taken that job a year ago.

[284] And there's still plenty of time to clean it up.

[285] I'm, I'm excited for, for the pairing, but.

[286] It's just like watching your organization, the team you root for, just make obviously bad decisions.

[287] And the weird thing, the thing that I still can't wrap my head around is like, and you still ended up in the place you needed to be and in theory have time to recover from it.

[288] And it's a weird spot to be where Ben Johnson might be a shitty head coach.

[289] He might suck at it and they might be pitifully average and Caleb Williams doesn't pan out to anything.

[290] And yet for the first time in the last time I can think of.

[291] I won't be mad at them because they made all, like, what's the thing you should do?

[292] This.

[293] Doesn't mean it's going to work.

[294] Everyone thinks you should draft Caleb Williams.

[295] Just fucking draft him.

[296] The last time you thought about this, you drafted Mr. Trubisky.

[297] So Caleb might not work out, but everyone says draft him.

[298] Just do it.

[299] Just be normal.

[300] Everyone says Ben Johnson is like.

[301] the most incredible candidate we've had since, like, Sean McVake, Kyle Shanahan.

[302] Just do it.

[303] He might suck.

[304] Lots of first -time coordinators turn out to be bad head coaches.

[305] But at least at the end of this, if it's a bust or it's disappointing, I find myself, and this is before we start losing again, and I can get angry in different ways, but they did the things the normal right way, and I can't be mad at that because that just never happens to my team.

[306] I don't know where you're at, Rob.

[307] I will say briefly, because maybe people don't know this, you said something to that effect every time we talked about an ongoing Bears game.

[308] Whenever you talk about Caleb, I just want him to play normal.

[309] I just want to see that he's a normal quarterback.

[310] I don't want him to be fluky.

[311] I don't want him to be, you know, there are a lot of quarterbacks who are really fun to watch, the Jameis Winstons of the world.

[312] Who you don't want as your main quarterback.

[313] You don't want as your starter.

[314] You want coming off the bench and win a game for us when our QB had some minor injury.

[315] But you want a normal quarterback.

[316] And Caleb, every week you're like, I'm happy.

[317] Caleb played a normal game of football.

[318] I feel like I feel a root for one of my kids.

[319] Like, you know, I'm just glad he got out without an injury, you know?

[320] Yeah.

[321] Yeah, with Caleb, the weird thing, it's the damnedest thing.

[322] The things that concern me about him are not the things that happen in the pressure situations.

[323] Final four minutes of the fourth quarter, Caleb Williams, where a lot of quarterbacks fall down, that's where we got the best version of him.

[324] He should have called a timeout that one time, though, man. And that's not only on him, but he should have overridden when the coach wasn't doing it, when he refused to.

[325] Well, a lot of things were flying apart.

[326] That's rookie year.

[327] I know.

[328] Yes, 100%.

[329] But that is what makes me hopeful, at least, is that when the chips are down and it's like, hey, man, you just need to go out there and execute, he sheds a lot of the bad things you see and becomes highly effective.

[330] When he's playing instinctual is kind of what you're saying, right?

[331] Raw, like, what have you spent decades building towards?

[332] Damn, he looks pretty good.

[333] When he was put into a structure that was a burning house, oh no, pieces of the house are falling on him.

[334] Of course it's not working.

[335] And that's your hope.

[336] But with Ben Johnson, like, I am...

[337] yeah like there's no there's no guarantee any of this is is going to work like it's a head coach is an executive position in a lot of ways and you know longevity in it is about knowing who to hire for coordinators assistants making good calls about all sorts of levels of the org and like handling those folks and that is a completely different skill set than designing plays or a game plan and that is where like Nobody – well, look, for a lot of reasons now, nobody looks at him like Tomlin as like, man, that guy just gets offenses humming.

[338] Yeah.

[339] But the longevity there also reflects a – almost like when the Patriots are at their prime, like a Belichickian -like ability to – the faces are going to change, but I'm going to bring people to a pretty high floor.

[340] And we're going to go from there.

[341] And that is how you get longevity.

[342] Andy Reid's a similar thing.

[343] Beyond the offensive guru stuff, the last show we were talking about this, the Chiefs' upswing begins when he shows up.

[344] Alex Smith was there, and they had a season where it was like, damn, this might be a Super Bowl team.

[345] And then Mozart shows up, and it's a different – now we're looking at something completely different, like a dynasty we haven't really seen before.

[346] But Andy Reid is able to reinvent.

[347] and replace parts and figure out how to rebuild an organization as it turns over.

[348] He's been picked over multiple times.

[349] He's just able to rebuild it.

[350] That's the real test.

[351] And that's ideally what you want for like a long, durable organization.

[352] But that's a, you have no way of knowing you're getting one of those people.

[353] That is the complete like leap of faith that you have to take when you're hiring a head coach.

[354] But yeah, I'm glad the Bears didn't mess around with it.

[355] And I am, I am so curious about the timing of this.

[356] Last year, you know, they decided to stick with Eberflus.

[357] And I always had a theory that it was about Eberflus was kind of a low power coach, that it was going to be Ryan Poles effectively having the run of that team, big man on campus, all this stuff.

[358] And.

[359] In the intervening time, the season goes really badly, and Ben Johnson made a lot of public statements that were basically to the effect of, your organization needs to have its shit together.

[360] If you're bringing me in, I'm going to expect to run things.

[361] And everyone thought that was sort of signaling, like, I'm going to be running personnel.

[362] Like, you're going to have to give me the keys to the entire franchise.

[363] But he comes to the Bears, and Ryan Poles is still there.

[364] But I am so curious about the difference now in structure.

[365] Like I do – I am – I kind of wonder if Johnson had not wanted to work with Pauls, would Pauls still be there?

[366] I am curious now who is going to be – having waited that week – having waited that year now, right?

[367] And Floose Craters, Pauls building of the team doesn't really work out.

[368] Now they're desperate to get Ben Johnson.

[369] I am curious if he's coming in now considerably more empowered to run the Bears than he would have been had the Bears made that decision last year.

[370] There was reporting that came out today that they're going to align their contracts, like polls is up for an extension.

[371] And so they'll be kind of linked on, I think, a five -year deal going forward.

[372] And it's just weird because now we have this.

[373] coach that i'm excited about but i'm still sort of ambivalent on the gm they did the easy part like tearing down a team i'm not saying that's like like most of us could come up with those basic ideas like trading away big assets and getting stuff from return and then he stumbles into caleb williams like it's a complete accident like you knew you'd get maybe a high pick from the panthers but not that you'd get number one and get your choice of like a really rich quarterback class um whereas like with you austin like I think it's fucking wild about your team.

[374] It was like, one, it's also memory hold, maybe not to you because you're a long time fan, but like, yeah.

[375] Howie Roseman was also shoved into a basement at some point, like wasn't fired from the organization, but was, was that like around the Chip Kelly era where he, I remember him being sort of ostracized and then brought back in.

[376] That is correct.

[377] He, he was, um, he had become like VP of personnel or something.

[378] something small you know what i mean he'd basically like been around for a long time uh but then completely got pushed away and then and then i want to say it was actually i want to say it was he got brought back up by i think it was post chip kelly maybe i'm wrong there maybe it was actually maybe it's around that era because that's as he wrestles control back and then it really turns the team into You know, I mean, it's season go up and down, but there's like there's a consistency to your team.

[379] Yes, that is the kind of thing I am jealous in the same way that I am jealous of the Kansas City Chiefs in terms of like just basic competency year over year.

[380] Or at least they thought even if we have a bad year or the vibes are off, like this guy will figure something out, some sort of actionable plan to try again the next year.

[381] Yeah.

[382] So so, yeah, the thing that actually happened was Chip Kelly takes over.

[383] general manager he became a personnel this is part of why he was so hated because the team exactly this like uh he sidelined yeah howie roseman and it's not so after kelly's essentially run out of town he's running because he sucks so bad and then when peterson came in roseman got to be the gm again and then immediately immediately we win right roseman is the is in you know you said earlier rob we were like we're seven brackets deep on a conversation because i think i said 30 minutes ago was, or whatever, was Andy Reid is one type of coach, and I was trying to set up Nick Sirianni as a different type of coach because Vic Fangio is our genius coach in terms of, which, listen, I think we're about to lose Kellen Moore to the Saints, it looks like.

[384] Go with God, my boy.

[385] You're doing a great job, but you're not the star coaching staff of our year.

[386] If we keep Vic for another year, I'll be thrilled.

[387] We've gone through so much turnover in our coaching staff in the last five years.

[388] This is the other story about Jalen Hurts, I think, really.

[389] Jalen hasn't been able to string together two years of decent OC coaching since he's been here.

[390] Do you like him?

[391] Do you like your quarterback?

[392] Yeah, I like Jalen Hurts.

[393] I'm a Jalen Hurts guy.

[394] OK, OK.

[395] You know, I'm I'm a Jalen Hurts guy.

[396] I may look at his win percentage.

[397] That's what you got your stats.

[398] OK, I got my stats.

[399] I'm the stats.

[400] I don't need I don't.

[401] And also, I think he's a very Philadelphia style quarterback.

[402] Right.

[403] I don't I do.

[404] I think he's better than what do you mean?

[405] What do you mean by that?

[406] What is a Philadelphia style quarterback?

[407] I think that he's someone who is going to win in ways that, you know, Nick Foles won us a Super Bowl.

[408] Nick Foles is not an all -star quarterback.

[409] I care about winning.

[410] He's probably not ever going to run the way he ran in 2021, 2022 again.

[411] It feels like he got a serious injury he's never talked about exactly.

[412] He never quite came back from that Super Bowl he lost and looked as good as that again.

[413] But I think there's – let me tell you one thing.

[414] Famously, he fumbled the ball in that Super Bowl and he doesn't.

[415] make turnovers anymore he holds on to the ball he doesn't throw picks anymore i think he's he has the least turnovers of any quarterback right now in the last year um uh and i don't need him to be joe burrow or josh allen for me to be like that's my dude now it's helped by the fact that we got saquon it's helped by the fact that because you have the infrastructure right you have like that's the thing about the eagles in the roseman This era is like – you don't have to be the guy.

[416] Every year a different guy can be the guy.

[417] This year it's Saquon and an offensive line that gets no credit.

[418] It was AJ.

[419] Two years ago it was AJ.

[420] We have the – in a way it feels like playing in the quarterback boom in the last decade feels like – the three -point shooting boom in the NBA, which, I mean, it lines up even really nicely, right?

[421] Which is like defenses get stripped of their power via changes in officiating that prevent them from playing as hard and hitting as hard as they do in the NFL.

[422] The hand check gets banned, all sorts of rules that help produce exterior shooting and making that more likely and more valuable in the NBA happen.

[423] And so you end up getting Steph, who's like perfect for that situation.

[424] The quarterback is the superstar of the NFL at this point, and the three -point shooter became the backbone of teams in the late 2010s or the mid -2010s to the late 2010s through until now where things are.

[425] Three -point shooting is so good in the NBA that people are bored of the NBA, right?

[426] But I think that along the way, the Eagles have become a team that's like, oh, yeah, we just don't play that way.

[427] And so they look broken.

[428] They look like a sick football team.

[429] But he's an 80 % win quarterback.

[430] That's insane.

[431] A lot of people will tell you win is not a quarterback stat.

[432] Shut the fuck up.

[433] Then why isn't your quarterback winning?

[434] Winning is a football game stat.

[435] And I think if you put in, I think if you put in another really good quarterback into the team that we have, Saquon would have had a really trash year because they would have tried to force the pass with, you know, it's like, unless you're telling me I'm getting Josh Allen or Joe Burrow, if I'm getting Sam Darnold, who am I getting?

[436] If I'm getting Tua, I don't want Tua.

[437] I want Hurts over Tua.

[438] And that's the real thing.

[439] Right.

[440] So, like, I like Jay Harris too.

[441] And who are the top five, who are the top five quarterbacks in the NFL right now?

[442] It's...

[443] It's Patrick Mahomes.

[444] It's Lamar Jackson.

[445] It's Josh Allen.

[446] That's the top three.

[447] Then I'd probably say Burrow, even though he's surrounded by...

[448] If I want to do some recency bias, I'm convincing myself that Jaden Daniels is really close.

[449] We got to see year two the same way we had to see year two with C .J. Stroud.

[450] C .J. Stroud played fine this year.

[451] He played okay, but he's not the top five.

[452] No. You know what I mean?

[453] And of that, you know what?

[454] I would take any of those other four, but I wouldn't take Jaden Daniels yet.

[455] I would stick with Jalen Hurts, who's now gotten us to two Super Bowls, who holds onto the ball when we were winning because of a turnover difference.

[456] Part of that is the quarterback doesn't give up the ball.

[457] His style of play just is not very sexy or highlight really.

[458] And it's actually, I think that's what made the most recent game like really encouraging where I know like a lot of the fear going into that game was how bad is his injury?

[459] How much is that preventing him from being able to even have the threat of the run?

[460] But man, like he threw, I think it was one of the touchdown passes to AJ Brown.

[461] It was like, just like right in the bread basket, like just outside of like where any outside that fourth and five pass was great.

[462] It was on fourth down.

[463] It was fucking gorgeous.

[464] And he had two running touchdowns and it was the kind of game 40 yards.

[465] And yeah, it was the kind of game where I still don't think he's going to get the credit because he just doesn't do it consistency consistently in the way other ones do.

[466] But it was a really fun.

[467] It's not usually fun to watch Jalen Hurst, I guess, is what I kind of come down on.

[468] It's a team effort in a league that is quarterbacks defining so much of the entertainment value of what you're watching aesthetically.

[469] And he's just not as aesthetically interesting.

[470] But he's also – it's counterbalanced by Saquon being present at the same time.

[471] Well, there's also – so I think the thing that's also like becoming just a marker of Philly sports is a super talented dude who makes it look harder than it seems like it should be.

[472] And you're always like – Is he okay?

[473] Yeah.

[474] Is he dying?

[475] Like Joel Embiid.

[476] But there are so many moments where Hertz looks hurt.

[477] Even that last game.

[478] Oh, yeah.

[479] Like he took a shot and he got off and I was like, oh, he doesn't look right.

[480] And they piloted his ass into a safety.

[481] Let me tell you the difference between Joel Embiid and Jalen Hertz.

[482] Jalen Hurts is playing football.

[483] He plays the game.

[484] And I'm not dissing, you know, I am not someone who's like load management is killing the NBA.

[485] I don't have, those people exist.

[486] I'm not that person necessarily.

[487] But I do think part of the thing that I think makes Jalen Hurts a Philadelphia style quarterback or Philadelphia style.

[488] athlete is he's like a grin and bear it motherfucker he's a like i'm just gonna push through it and that's not always the best thing to do i'm glad he took time to recover from the concussion i'm glad he didn't like try to hide that which is a classic nfl player thing to do um uh but but he is absolutely someone who has been playing hurt on and off for two years but he hasn't been not playing which is huge you know i the the the other the other component of this I do feel like, man, everything looks like, you know, you talked about the Vic Fangio of it all.

[489] Everything looks a little better when your defense is shutting drives down.

[490] And so you don't have to go out there and pull a score every single time.

[491] If you can stop them a couple times, suddenly you got a lot of breathing room.

[492] All your offense has to do is have like a normal amount of production.

[493] But the other component of this is like.

[494] Offenses just seem to have so much more flexibility to dictate pace of a game if they have a good running attack.

[495] It turns out the running back was an essential pillar of a good offense because of how you can pace the game.

[496] And frequently the line to support him.

[497] Yes.

[498] I mean, we have the best line in the league, and I think there's a lot of...

[499] I get why if you're a Giants fan, you go, we couldn't have used Saquon this year the way that you used Saquon this year.

[500] We didn't have a quarterback who was a rushing threat.

[501] We didn't have the O -line that you have.

[502] He wouldn't have produced for the Giants the way he produced for the Eagles.

[503] I think that's probably true.

[504] I think it probably still stings like a motherfucker to watch him have the year he had, knowing that even John Mara didn't want to get rid of him.

[505] And also I think probably what would make you despair is – there's no way that we could have even given this to him.

[506] Like part of, I guess, I guess someone on the sidelines who's just enjoyed watching Saquon.

[507] It's like, I think I mentioned this to Rob in our last podcast.

[508] Like it's rare that you get a player perfectly paired with the situation to make the best use of their talents.

[509] That's just not the way roster construction works.

[510] Like it's just in, especially the NFL, a parody league and the, and the decline of running backs in terms of priority in, in scheme and in pay.

[511] And it's just he went to any other team.

[512] I mean, the Bears were in the run.

[513] Like he was where we were one of the three teams where he was maybe going to come here.

[514] I'm so glad for him and for football that that didn't happen because we've got to watch a perfect pairing of athletes unlock.

[515] Like his Hall of Fame case is predicated on winning the Super Bowl.

[516] I don't know if Saquon should be in the Super Bowl, but like if he wins and he's the MVP or something like that, he's going to the Hall of Fame because of this season.

[517] A hundred percent.

[518] I mean, the thing that's upsetting on the money side is.

[519] You know how many mid and kind of low tier wide receivers get paid more than Saquon Barkley?

[520] It's absurd.

[521] What's his contract now?

[522] 12 mil?

[523] Something like that?

[524] Yeah, it's around there, yeah.

[525] It's nothing.

[526] Well, did they give him a new contract or they just take the contract off the Giants?

[527] I think that they gave him a new contract.

[528] No, they had to because he was out of the contract.

[529] That's right.

[530] The Giants were like, we can't.

[531] He was a true free agent.

[532] Yeah.

[533] He was a true free agent.

[534] Yes, exactly.

[535] Yeah.

[536] Saquon, I think, is 12 mil.

[537] I might be wrong, but that's nothing.

[538] It is.

[539] Maybe it was 15, you know?

[540] I think there's a couple things.

[541] Like, one, it's just evidence of, like, the shittiness of the salary cap, the way that narratives set the pay rate for these guys.

[542] Like, I do think the running back position was devalued in part because you had a lot of, like, an overweening emphasis on a certain type of statistical analysis that probably discounted a holistic look at what, The value a unique running back provides to to an offense across the board because their production props up receiver numbers by stretching the defense.

[543] Like there was a lot of the same way that, you know, Daniel Jones has a lot of Barkley's money in his pocket.

[544] The same goes for a lot of these receivers who are like, wow, look at the production.

[545] Well, yeah, that's because.

[546] That's because the defense has to keep three guys in the box in the secondary to contain this.

[547] And by the way, with Saquon, that's not enough because the thing watching him that I've really realized is if nobody gets a mitt on him as he hits the first line, if he is untouched to the second layer of the defense, you've got a big problem.

[548] It's a coin flip.

[549] He might go to the house every time if he gets the second line untouched.

[550] Because he's more athletic than they are, but also he will truck them.

[551] Yep.

[552] And it's not the same way as like Derrick Henry where you see the stiff arm and just get – but like he is not easy to bring down.

[553] He is incredibly agile.

[554] He's incredibly fast.

[555] If they do not cause him to at least stumble or check his acceleration as he gets past the line of scrimmage, the linebackers cannot really – like they're in a bit of a jam and nobody passed the linebacker.

[556] Safeties.

[557] are not going to get the job done if Barkley breaks.

[558] And you really saw that in that last game with snow on the ground, footing's a little treacherous.

[559] It was just like perfect conditions for it.

[560] You want to see what a guy like this can do, an old school feature running back.

[561] A lot of the rest of modern football is breaking down here in these conditions.

[562] This guy is like...

[563] achieving new levels of power did you hear he told before one of his uh touchdown runs he told uh jammer hurts watch this watch this yeah let's go incredible did you i mean going back to the pacing thing it isn't only the home run hits right which is also it's very funny to hear people talking about him as a home run hitter it's like not the way you think about football even a even like a big chunk play pass it doesn't feel like a home run.

[564] Sometimes it does.

[565] Sometimes like the really great long pass, but the way he breaks out and it's like, Oh my God, that one's he's going, it's going as he's gone.

[566] Like it feels like a home run.

[567] Cause you have that same feeling of like.

[568] You know, a pass is so quick normally.

[569] Sometimes it's a big lob.

[570] But so often you throw a pass, like, oh, it's up in the air.

[571] Is he going to catch it?

[572] But with a Saquon run, you see he makes contact with the ball, so to speak.

[573] And then like, oh, is this going to – oh, is this going to – it's going to – it's gone.

[574] Like, he has that feeling.

[575] It's so exciting.

[576] But the other thing that he adds, again, going back to the pacing, is I can't – for me, the moment I was like, oh, this season is going to go good.

[577] it was 10 weeks in or whatever when we played the Steelers this year and we get to the fourth, the fourth quarter.

[578] And then we got the ball on like the one or two yard line and there was 10 and a half minutes left in the game.

[579] And we just, it was the one drive.

[580] We finished the drive out 10 and a half minutes because we were just doing check downs and little Saquon runs.

[581] And he was just piling it through.

[582] It was like, if I get four yards every, every down.

[583] I can drag this clock out.

[584] And he just did it.

[585] This, by the way, is one thing I like about Ben Johnson as well, which is that for all the trick plays and stuff to get attention, his first instinct was wear them down.

[586] Like early in the season, they get unlucky with injuries.

[587] And I do think maybe we've seen the limits of like if you adopt attrition as a strategy, it does work both ways.

[588] Like if you're a hard physical team.

[589] Some of these things are just like a crapshoot as to who's going to get who's going to come away from, you know, the worst in the collision.

[590] But the Lions, you know, their preferred style instead of going the trick bag was we got two great running backs and a great line.

[591] And we're just going to hit you again and again and again.

[592] And so the thing about the thing doesn't come through on football because they don't show that you're always a commercial.

[593] You're always showing the replay.

[594] The thing that gets missed is if you're on defense, you know, what is it?

[595] What's the play clock?

[596] 40 seconds.

[597] Uh, so on a running play, if you're a defensive lineman, you get hit like that.

[598] You get, you get hit hard and you're hitting someone.

[599] You're grappling with someone.

[600] It's a, it's a nasty play.

[601] If you make the tackle of a running back, by the way, that sucks.

[602] Um, let me, let me tell you, like stepping into a hole and it's you and a running back, uh, people will be like, yeah, you fucked him up.

[603] One of the worst experiences I had on a football field was like stopping a running back dead and running at you.

[604] And people were like, you know, they were like slapping me on the helmet.

[605] I was like, yeah, you fucked his day up.

[606] And I was like, yeah, he ran at me at all.

[607] I can still, I can still see that guy running at me the moment before impact.

[608] Cause it was like getting hit by a cannonball.

[609] And there's no doubt in my mind.

[610] I took the worst of that because like all I was stepping into the hole and he had a full head of steam.

[611] But the thing is, so you go through that play and whistle.

[612] On defense, you have to run to the new line of scrimmage, get the play in lineup.

[613] And so there is literally a series of like jogs and like wind sprints as you're getting, as you're getting like backed up down the field.

[614] And it feels totally different on offense because you're dictating who like, right.

[615] Not the players on the offensive line, like the blocking scheme, they get to choose who they fuck up.

[616] They get to choose who the, who the targeted attack is.

[617] Defense, you have to be covering kind of every basis, and you're always kind of getting hit.

[618] And so the thing about these, like, what this kind of attack does for you that doesn't come through TV real well is, you know, they talk about, like, that defense is getting tired.

[619] You can't really, I can't begin to tell you how bad it is to be getting rolled down the field five yards at a time.

[620] Yeah.

[621] It feels like you're out there for an hour as that's happening.

[622] And you're increasingly just hurting every time.

[623] And then I cannot imagine for the life of me what it must feel like to get hit by someone like Saquon Barkley.

[624] I do not think you hit him.

[625] I do not think when you make a tackle, I do not think you come away feeling like you hit him.

[626] I feel like Saquon Barkley happened to you.

[627] And maybe you stopped him.

[628] And maybe you stopped him, which is great.

[629] Good job.

[630] That's the job.

[631] It's so interesting seeing the season Derrick Henry had.

[632] And like, we both think of them as incredible running backs, but they play their play styles.

[633] Like Saquon is, I mean, they're all built huge, but like Derek Henry is a tank.

[634] Like there's a reason there used to be memes of like, oh, I forget the cornerback who got like stiffed arm by Derek Henry going for a tackle.

[635] And he just like threw him out of the way.

[636] And that went viral.

[637] And he was like really embarrassed about it.

[638] And then there's this really good article that got written by, I can't remember which reporter put it together.

[639] It was like, are people afraid to tackle Derek Henry?

[640] And it became like a bunch of anonymous sourcing that was like.

[641] yeah like not really something you're supposed to admit like uh in like this like adrenaline masculine sport but like yeah i don't want to tackle derrick henry and there's just something different like it's almost like saquon pinballs in a way that is a little bit different than like the straight like derrick henry runs forward and like gets going and just saquon has like a so kinetic energy to him that is that is fun there is a thing he can do i think we've seen it like we feel like him jumping over people just cool but there's a thing you see him do when he spins Which is, it's not like a tight, narrow radius, like, pirouette.

[642] It's almost like he's using, like, the angular momentum of a spin.

[643] You can see it where, like, it's almost like, you can imagine, like, there's an orbit to his spin.

[644] Yes.

[645] And so he keeps his feet.

[646] He keeps his speed.

[647] His feet never stop moving.

[648] And he's spinning while moving forward and laterally at high speed.

[649] And he can do that.

[650] And then someone hits him mid spin and his balance is such.

[651] And I think maybe in part because he's in this like arcing motion, he can bounce off that hit and keep going.

[652] And it's like.

[653] There's no one else who runs like this.

[654] Same as Derek Henry in some ways.

[655] Yeah, well, Henry is just – he will just truck you.

[656] The thing about Saquon is he knows how to spin and keep that momentum such that it's like a back spinning elbow or something.

[657] Like he's doing it like a spinning shoulder check more than he's doing a – It's like a parry move.

[658] Yeah, he's parrying.

[659] Yeah, he's doing – when he runs, he's playing Sekiro.

[660] He's hitting the Makiri counter.

[661] Dark Souls versus Sekiro is – if we're going to bring this full circle.

[662] Derek Henry is Dark Souls.

[663] He's got a big thing of armor and an axe.

[664] King Henry boss meter shows up.

[665] I also think there's something to...

[666] Football changes.

[667] Personnel changes.

[668] Personnel starts changing in response to that as schemes are drawn up to deal with whatever's the predominant paradigm.

[669] And then suddenly...

[670] The league looks different and there's a new efficiency that opens up.

[671] And I think right now we're kind of seeing maybe more of an ascent of the running back because defenses got smaller and smaller.

[672] Like you look at what a linebacker looked like in 1980 versus like now.

[673] So you start seeing more and more fast athletic defenses.

[674] You can sort of seal the edges.

[675] And that was that was the whole name of the game.

[676] And also drop more guys into coverage because covering the pass is getting harder and harder.

[677] And that's great.

[678] Except now the thing that you.

[679] used to be able to do was like have someone who go like lay lay lay some hurt on a big strong tough running back and now like i i don't know if it would look like this and maybe derrick henry so special it would look like this in every era but it does feel like some of these guys You faked someone's paperwork to get them into Pop Warner.

[680] Yeah.

[681] Like, there's times you look at it and it's like, uh -oh.

[682] Uh -oh.

[683] And I just want to say it again.

[684] Jerry Jones did not go get Derrick Henry and could have.

[685] This could have been the NFC East year where there were two all -star running backs competing against each other.

[686] Could you imagine there had been two Saquon versus Derrick Henry games this year?

[687] That would have been incredible.

[688] And it might have been three because with Derrick Henry, the Cowboys might have made the playoffs.

[689] It would have been really tight because, you know.

[690] They had so many defensive injuries that really kind of fucked up their season.

[691] It's true.

[692] Anyway.

[693] Okay.

[694] I asked if you liked Jalen Hurts.

[695] Do you like Nick Sirianni?

[696] Where are you at in Nick Sirianni?

[697] I had it put to me recently on a podcast that was like, is he the best?

[698] Clearly, unarguably, maybe not.

[699] I'll see what you have to say.

[700] Seems like he's a good coach, but is just awful at all the public -facing parts of being a coach.

[701] And that creates a divided perception if you're just an outside observer.

[702] Here's what I think.

[703] I think that there is a sort of tragic Greek myth thing happening with him.

[704] I think the reason Philadelphia fans don't like Nick Sirianni...

[705] It's because he represents them too well.

[706] That Nick Sirianni, we look at Nick Sirianni, and we go, that's what people think about us as Philadelphia fans.

[707] Philadelphia sports fans, but especially Philadelphia Eagles fans.

[708] We hate what we see in the mirror.

[709] That's why it really hurts.

[710] He is the quintessential yelling at somebody else, trying to get into a fight.

[711] Yelling at his own fans.

[712] He's holding back.

[713] Doesn't really.

[714] Doesn't really understand the X's and O's as well as other people, but has a lot of heart.

[715] You know, you know, I think the story that's been or the analogy that's been told about the Eagles over and over again this year is it's the type of family that's constantly arguing with each other.

[716] But then they all like constantly are in the cycle of yelling and making up and defending each other from the outside, but like hating each other at the same time.

[717] It's like the deeply dysfunctional family.

[718] That's it's the sort of dysfunction that is functional.

[719] You know, it's like, no, my family doesn't do it this way.

[720] Your family is constantly yelling at each other.

[721] That's that can't be good.

[722] Right.

[723] It works for us.

[724] You know.

[725] We would all be there if there was any sort of trouble.

[726] We would all take care of each other.

[727] Meanwhile, we're shouting at each other.

[728] And I think that that's really embodied in Nick.

[729] What I'm here for is the Nick Sirianni arc. I would love to win the Super Bowl for many reasons.

[730] Of course.

[731] But one of them is that then you have to give Nick his due.

[732] And he goes from being the guy with the terrible introduction speech, which is like.

[733] It's not good, but there have been so many bad – So was Dan Campbell.

[734] This is what I'm saying.

[735] Here's my question.

[736] Yeah.

[737] Dan Campbell and Nick Sirianni, I think they were higher than the same cycle.

[738] Yeah.

[739] And they looked like they were cut from the same cloth.

[740] Nick is shorter and doesn't have the same – Nick looks nerdier than Dan Campbell does.

[741] I really think that that's part of it.

[742] I think Dan gives biker.

[743] He gives tough trucker energy.

[744] And Nick gives – Even his voice, I think there's a lot of stuff happening around what masculinity is supposed to look like.

[745] I think Nick doesn't have the look, you know?

[746] Nick is a little too little for what an NFL sports coach is supposed to look like.

[747] In the same way that people get on...

[748] And NBA coaches are being a little too fat and being like, well, he doesn't look like he could play the game.

[749] And so did it.

[750] But he can't talk like he's also like, so like Sean McVay, right?

[751] Like one of the, this is trotted out less often.

[752] Because you can go the other direction.

[753] You could be the, the nerdy NFL coach who's like, oh, that guy's smart.

[754] Yeah.

[755] Well, like Sean McVay can like rattle off like entire sequences of plays from games like six years ago.

[756] And like tell you exactly where, like where the X's and O's swept across and why he called what he did.

[757] Like it's almost like Nick Serena caught, like has, it's closer to the aesthetics.

[758] Of like the rise of the analytical football nerd as football coach.

[759] But the energy.

[760] But he sounds like a normal Eagles fan.

[761] Yeah.

[762] He sounds like the guy in the bar.

[763] You know what I mean?

[764] He's the guy in the bar who thinks he knows a little too much.

[765] This would be some sort of 90s quirky football.

[766] Well, the people of Philadelphia at this bar got to vote for the new coach, and they voted in old Nick.

[767] And then Nick wakes up hungover, discovering that he's got to go coach the Eagles.

[768] Nick does look like he knows exactly when every liquor store opens and what they can sell at a given time of day.

[769] 100%.

[770] Slightly unkept waxen look that you get from someone who is like, oh, I'm not out much during the day.

[771] I got a lot of stuff going on.

[772] This is his Wikipedia photo.

[773] This is the photo that is like him.

[774] He's got A. I know.

[775] Give him a Super Bowl or we call him St. Nick by this time next year.

[776] You'll have two of them.

[777] We'll have two.

[778] Yeah.

[779] Two St. Nick's.

[780] We'll be able to do the whole, like, the whole stained glass collection.

[781] Does he get a statue?

[782] Double Nick?

[783] Of course.

[784] He would have to get two statues.

[785] He'd have to get two Nick's statues.

[786] That is the iBook.

[787] Now you have to win.

[788] And he's a Rocky story.

[789] Do you know what I mean?

[790] We need the Nick Sirianni statue next to Big Dick Nick outside of Philadelphia.

[791] The rest of society is falling apart.

[792] But I need this.

[793] Please.

[794] I need this.

[795] Please.

[796] Philadelphia, I need it.

[797] We'll see.

[798] I'll just say this.

[799] It seems like it did not help.

[800] He doesn't have the way with people that Dan Campbell does.

[801] That whole Lions team was like ride or die for this guy even when things weren't going well.

[802] When things don't go on Philly now, and this is again, like also just a very Philly trait.

[803] So it's not all on him, but like the vibe was so bad when they were winning last year and it was like kind of shaky.

[804] He makes, you know, bringing Patricia in was like the worst thing you could do.

[805] But the vibe was so clear that like Hertz disdained him a little bit or was frustrated by something.

[806] And that sort of echoes through the team, the perennially malcontent.

[807] philly receivers room uh started to turn on on hurts like he he seems to have a problem getting everyone to buy in and like hey trust trust the vision like let's just keep this rolling and that is easy to do when when you're winning it's tougher when you have more ups and downs but he doesn't seem to have that thing where it's like hey let's all keep it together trust me that you know this is pointing the right direction when things start getting a little shaky he does i mean doesn't even have that thing to calm the room We could win the Super Bowl later this week and then go two and two next year.

[808] People are like, well, we got to go.

[809] We're going to fucking Nick.

[810] Nick's got to go.

[811] He's not going to buy any long -term goodwill.

[812] Maybe a little.

[813] Where you would have to have two skidding seasons back to back before.

[814] Because the thing is, if this season had skidded, if we had gone two and four, he'd be gone by now.

[815] 100%.

[816] Because not only people credit him with the team's success, right?

[817] That's kind of the vibe I get.

[818] And that's the thing that's tough, right?

[819] Because like Rob, you were saying earlier, wins aren't a quarterback stat.

[820] But they are a coaching stat.

[821] That's the thing you're supposed to give coaches is wins.

[822] And no one will give that to Nick.

[823] And it's I will say, like, again, from the outside or from the inside looking out, that's one of the frustrating things about being an Eagles fan right now is no one wants to give Jalen Hurts credit.

[824] No one wants to give Nick credit.

[825] Everyone wants to find an excuse for why we've won so much this year.

[826] And to be clear, Saquon and Vic Fangio are big parts of that.

[827] I'm not saying they are not.

[828] They obviously we were not winning like this last year, but we won like this two years ago and we looked unstoppable in very similar ways.

[829] We're still the only team that can do the tush push the way we do it.

[830] Philly ball is Philly ball, and it works for Philly, and it doesn't seem to work anywhere else.

[831] Watching the Bills in short yardage situations was like, what the fuck is going on?

[832] Have you guys not seen the NFL in the last two years?

[833] Why are you doing this?

[834] Why don't you have a tush push?

[835] That game was so heartbreaking for so many ways.

[836] I mean, I think in general, the AFC is so frustrating right now because it's filled with teams I want to see play the game and want to see the Super Bowl.

[837] It's the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

[838] in like the late 2000s early 2010s just like teams imploding because it's like oh well this is bullshit I guess we need to blow it up and we need to do something different it's like that ain't gonna work no I wanted Josh Allen to get there so bad he's so good I wanted Lamar to get there so bad he's so good what do you do what's the problem of that conference is like there are so like the yeah the you know like you have one conference that is full of these like aberration level quarterbacks who are able to carry so much for their teams independently.

[839] And then on the, like that's the AFC.

[840] And then the NFC, it's like, we'll see where, you know, Jaden Daniels ends up.

[841] He shares qualities with quarterbacks like that, given how bad the commanders, like if objectively looking at the structure of their team, like from a Ross, like they were tearing down, they were expecting to win six games this year.

[842] And then things, things go differently, but it's all, it's like, really competently run organizations from the top down where like talent is spread everywhere.

[843] Like that is the, that's the Eagles.

[844] That's like, that's the Packers.

[845] That's the Rams.

[846] That's the lion.

[847] Like, and it's just so, it makes the, I think that's what makes the AFC so much more frustrating to watch as it, as it shakes out for the chiefs is because, yeah, but there's like so many other guys here that I really want to see get their moment.

[848] And instead, it's just this one guy who I don't even really hate that much.

[849] But I'm just it's just I'm just bored.

[850] I like that.

[851] That's the thing.

[852] This is what makes this dynasty unique is I think there's less outright.

[853] I mean, earned ire.

[854] Right.

[855] Versus against the Patriots, you mean?

[856] Yes.

[857] Right.

[858] The Patriots.

[859] Everyone's like, you'll fuck the fuck Patriots.

[860] Yes, absolutely.

[861] Whereas now it's just like, are we really doing again?

[862] Again.

[863] Now, listen, the the Eagles beat Brady.

[864] I think we can do it.

[865] I think we can beat Mahomes.

[866] And we didn't beat Brady on the end of a three -peat season or a potential three -peat.

[867] We beat him in the middle.

[868] If he had won, if he'd beaten us, the Patriots would have gotten a three -peat already.

[869] That's right.

[870] That's right.

[871] Because they won in 2016, 2018.

[872] They lost 2017 to us.

[873] You interrupted kind of the end of their cycle before he went to the Bucs.

[874] And so maybe we got it.

[875] Maybe we can make it happen.

[876] It's...

[877] You know, from the outside, again, if I was on the outside looking in, I would be rooting for the Chiefs to get the three -peat.

[878] I think Patrick Mahomes is a great player.

[879] I think that there was something that feels faded about the season.

[880] All those wins that they stacked up that felt like impossible.

[881] I don't know how many times I messaged you on.

[882] I was like, the Chiefs have the mandate of heaven.

[883] They're winning for no reason.

[884] I don't understand it.

[885] And then there's also a degree of like, all right, just give it to them and we can move on.

[886] Just get, they can have it and then we can just figure it all out next time.

[887] Maybe they get three and Andy Reid is like, I'm going out on top, you know?

[888] But, I don't know.

[889] I am so excited for this because I still feel there's a couple things one like the chief spent the entire season on fraud watch like they just like it did not look they did not look like a team that was really built to make a good playoff run but they're also in a place where they have the luxury of doing things that like you only see in the nba right now which is like just throttle back like don't they are doing management basically you know just in terms of how they're playing instead of being Most teams have to make max effort to win games in the NFL because it's a really competitive league.

[890] The Chiefs being in a position playing with house money can throttle back.

[891] They were willing to lose a few of those games.

[892] They just didn't because they kept getting lucky.

[893] I am so curious if that gear is there for them in the Super Bowl going up against a team like the Eagles.

[894] They had a narrow escape with the Bills.

[895] And again, required really, I think it was the, like some dodgy spotting from, from the refs twice on the, on one series, like get them put into position to, to, to go and win.

[896] Yeah.

[897] But you know, like everyone gets breaks.

[898] Like the, like, like the difference is Josh Allen also had some.

[899] drives that went nowhere.

[900] He needs to be better.

[901] He almost threw two picks in the, like the, like a guy who looks so supremely confident all season long, that opening drive.

[902] And I think this is like, I think Saquon, like running backs, like the chiefs as a whole, like there's a mental like energy that like leaks out that you can't like, why is Josh throwing two picks right up?

[903] Like, this is not the kind of, this is not what you've done all season.

[904] We're very in control of the ball.

[905] And yet there's a nervous energy that like seeps in.

[906] based on the construction of these teams.

[907] And I think the Chiefs have that kind of energy where it doesn't matter if on paper you should be better than them.

[908] They're the Chiefs.

[909] And that's a ridiculous notion, but it is something that comes out of, I think, these dynasty -level teams where there actually is sort of a mental hurdle you have to get over in order to perform at your baseline level of talent.

[910] I think the chiefs like managed to, now can the Eagles get around that?

[911] Like maybe their vibes are so often a different direction.

[912] You know, they're reading books on the sideline that it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't penetrate.

[913] What's the book?

[914] It's like something.

[915] Excellence.

[916] Excellence.

[917] Yeah.

[918] It's not achieving excellence.

[919] Inner excellence.

[920] It's called inner excellence.

[921] I forget who it's by.

[922] Inner excellence.

[923] Train your mind for extraordinary performance and the best possible life.

[924] I think he invited that author to the games afterwards, and they became friends.

[925] I believe that is something that might have happened.

[926] I mean, you saw the pictures of the book, right?

[927] This is the most Severance -ass.

[928] I mean, absolutely.

[929] You saw they released that, by the way?

[930] They released 40 pages of that guy's book for Severance?

[931] Oh, really?

[932] For season two?

[933] That's really good.

[934] For season two, they released 40 pages of it.

[935] The Wii.

[936] I forget the name of her, too.

[937] The season's great so far.

[938] But yeah, the his copy also was just AJ Brown's copy of Inter Excellence was like dog eared.

[939] It's like had it in his back pocket for 10 years is what it looked like.

[940] Wild.

[941] I was listening to a podcast.

[942] I had the Dominique Fox show.

[943] Highly recommended.

[944] Great, great, great podcast.

[945] And when that happened, one of the co -hosts asked Dominique, who's an ex -football player, like, like, you ever seen that?

[946] Like, on the sidelines before?

[947] Like, what, someone reading a book?

[948] He's like, yeah.

[949] He's like, nah.

[950] I've seen players drink on the sidelines during a game.

[951] I've never seen someone read a book.

[952] And I'm like, that's incredible.

[953] It's incredible.

[954] The thing with the Chiefs...

[955] Go ahead, Rob.

[956] Well, I was going to say, like, I...

[957] For me, I'm curious, like, can Vic Fangio, like, figure something out here?

[958] Yeah.

[959] And also, like...

[960] The Chiefs really have ridden their defense in a lot of ways through this, which is like the offense has not been the difference maker.

[961] It's like they come with the points when they need to, but they don't need to come up with that many because the defense is really tough, plays you tough.

[962] That's the Chiefs.

[963] You could be describing either team right now.

[964] Right, and that's the thing.

[965] But the Eagles have Saquon, and I am curious.

[966] I think this has the potential to be like.

[967] you're facing a tougher defensive coordinator than you faced in a while.

[968] And also you're going to be dealing with an offensive threat that you haven't, you haven't faced this.

[969] There's an effect.

[970] There's dimension to this offense that you haven't seen.

[971] And we will see how we will see how some of the shit works.

[972] That's, that's what I'm excited about in this.

[973] I will say something for Jalen hurts again.

[974] Something that I think has not been said a lot.

[975] this year somebody's watched all of those games there is something he's doing this year that he's i've never seen him do before which is calling audibles all the time he's making really a lot of those saquon runs are coming off of an audible where he's reading the coverage and saying oh oh i see coming up moving moving people around um and suddenly there's a breakout home run run from saquon uh and uh to me I'm really confident about our defense, and I always question what our offensive scheming will do.

[976] Sometimes Kellen Moore, just like, I am not a big Kellen Moore guy, you know?

[977] And what makes me feel more confident is that I've seen Jalen.

[978] adjust on the fly in smart ways all year and so i hope that that helps us even out a little bit on on offense and we're not you know if all we need to do all we if all we can do is hope for saquon to take off running then we're in trouble Right.

[979] Because like part of the value of that is that it does let Jalen run.

[980] It does let Jalen pass.

[981] It does get, you know, it's great when AJ is blocking, because then when AJ is not blocking and you put him in man coverage, he could burn you.

[982] And I think that that's the only way we end up winning.

[983] It can't just be Saquon.

[984] And I'm actually very confident in Vic and the defense, mostly because it feels like we don't need.

[985] There's a lot of teams out there.

[986] Let's say the Cleveland Browns with Miles Garrett, where it's like, oh, yeah, Miles is the dude.

[987] It's not how the Eagles really work defensively.

[988] There's a bunch of people who can make the play, and that raises the possibility that, like, oh, they figure out who the weak link is on the offensive line, and they adjust for that, and they take advantage of it, right?

[989] I'm hoping we're not in a place where we need to blitz every – you know, every down to your center was injured in the last game.

[990] Our center, our, both of our centers are injured in the last.

[991] And there's, he was making it like one of them is like, he was bleeding at a brace on and dude, you can kind of see like he was making a show of it.

[992] Like the reason I'm not out there is because I'm, I'm legitimately hurt.

[993] Like he kept like putting his arms in the air, like mad at the trainers on the sidelines.

[994] Yeah.

[995] Uh, Cam Juergens was hurt.

[996] And so Lane Johnson, I think was playing, was playing, uh, Lane Johnson was like the, like air apparent to, jason kelsey right like he's been sort of like he's been playing no because he's been playing offensive tackle um so i think i think cam maybe i'm wrong i have this backwards do i have this backwards um i'm pretty sure i'm right about this uh yeah he probably is yeah i am i am cam jurgens had kind of inherited the role from from kelsey gotcha and had like a kind of a shaky start at the for the first few uh games and then kind of found it you know um and then and then uh yeah he was hurt and so lane was playing center and then lane got hurt and so cam went back in and again there is like a there's like a broad street bullies style of philadelphia athlete that is like, no, we're just going to grin and bear it.

[997] We're just going to stiff up her lip.

[998] We're going to get out there and work our asses off and see how it goes.

[999] Now, the other side of this is, of course, we would get to this game and realize, oh, my God, the team was actually falling apart.

[1000] The team was running on fumes, was running on adrenaline.

[1001] We took a week off.

[1002] We got stiff.

[1003] We got, you know, weaker.

[1004] We got brittle.

[1005] Well, I'm worried about you being tight to start the game.

[1006] And the thing about the Chiefs this entire season is they're not going to beat you with the like.

[1007] We got enough distance that you start to forget about it, but Mahomes, when he entered the league, drops back, scrambles for 15 seconds, and then uncorks a 70 -yard bomb.

[1008] I don't understand what just happened.

[1009] That's not what he does anymore.

[1010] He is much more...

[1011] Tom Brady leaves, and he steps up, and he's like, I'm going to play over the middle of the field.

[1012] I'm going to take the easy stuff, and we're just going to a boa constrictor strangle you.

[1013] And, like, you're going to look around at the end of the game and be like, I don't understand.

[1014] I thought we had time to win.

[1015] It turns out you never did once you hit, like, the halfway point of the third quarter.

[1016] And my worry is you get 10 points behind to the Chiefs.

[1017] Like, you're just going to be like.

[1018] We need to be 14 up.

[1019] Your team plays better with the lead.

[1020] If we're not 14 up.

[1021] Yeah, if we're not 14 up.

[1022] The Eagles are in trouble.

[1023] By.

[1024] We need to be 14 up with five minutes left in the game.

[1025] Otherwise, I'm going to feel like we're going to lose.

[1026] Yeah, like truly.

[1027] And even then we might lose.

[1028] Patrick Mahomes is that guy.

[1029] Like I've never Tom Brady, obviously.

[1030] All time winner, obviously.

[1031] He never felt like Michael Jordan to me. Well, for us, it's Aaron Rodgers, right?

[1032] Like that's that was Aaron Rodgers is the boogeyman for me. It didn't matter how much time you like Michael Jordan to you.

[1033] Because Patrick Mahomes feels like Michael Jordan.

[1034] I agree.

[1035] Do you know what I mean?

[1036] Like, he just makes it happen.

[1037] And I don't know how.

[1038] He did it in 13 seconds.

[1039] I mean, they changed the rules in the NFL because he went down and won too fast in a playoff game.

[1040] The thing that we're thinking about, they've been first in the AFC West since 2016.

[1041] They've won the AFC West every year since 2016.

[1042] And they've been in the championship game since 2018 every year.

[1043] the the afc champion i think every year since he was the starter every year since he was the starter and they've won three of those super bowls after that and that's like it's unheard of it's it's absurd i mean the league is that that uh you know the you're in the final two minutes you are down in points but you have the ball for a walk -off uh score um all -time quarterbacks list like who like what's your percentage in those situations and like tom brady is one of the best to ever do it he's 50 50 in those situations i think was the stat at the time mahomes has like an 80 success rate in that scenario uh and so like it is just like tom brady Was one of the best clutch guys the sport had ever seen.

[1044] It belied like some of the rap on him was like he looked like an average quarterback a lot of other times.

[1045] But in the final minutes of a game, high pressure situations like he was the guy like ice water in his veins.

[1046] That's who you wanted.

[1047] Mahomes is like a statistical deviation better in those scenarios than Tom Brady.

[1048] It's a bizarre, like unheard of thing.

[1049] Uh, and it is not, it does not appear to be dependent on personnel around him that like it will, he will find something.

[1050] Uh, yeah, we'll see what happens when, when, uh, you know, the Kelsey era and, but that, that team, his receivers room has already fallen apart.

[1051] That's yeah.

[1052] That's the thing, right?

[1053] It didn't stop him.

[1054] It's not like Mahomes has always had elite receivers.

[1055] I mean, he's always at Kelsey, but he's not always had an elite receiver core.

[1056] And Kelsey did not put up great numbers this season.

[1057] He's obviously playing great in the postseason.

[1058] Generally, it feels like he's going like if they win, I feel like Kelsey is like as close to get to hanging.

[1059] He's just holding on and he can he gets the occasional big play.

[1060] But it just feels like, hey, man, like him and Mahomes are trying to get to that three -peat.

[1061] And if it happens, then he.

[1062] then he retires on a high note.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] It's that late career gronk thing too, though, where it's like, it's a physical like position.

[1065] There's a lot of wear and tear on it.

[1066] You need him to be your target, break glass and target, like hit this guy in these hot, in these important situations.

[1067] Yep.

[1068] And so I do feel like he dogs it a little bit, uh, through, through the season.

[1069] Um, and then it starts to uncork late.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] I am.

[1073] I'm worried about him.

[1074] Uh, because the routes that he runs and then make something from those are not things that, I don't know, maybe he gets blown up by Cooper DeGene the way Derrick Henry got blown up on a little check down during that Ravens game a while ago, and the whole thing changes, but I've seen those over -the -middle passes screw us, and Kelsey is a king at those.

[1075] So, yeah, we'll see.

[1076] I don't know.

[1077] I am excited about it.

[1078] I am hopeful, but not...

[1079] I'm optimistic.

[1080] Like I'm actually feel way better about this than I did about the two years ago.

[1081] You can describe to me six different ways that this game goes.

[1082] And I would believe all of them, which that's the mark of including blowouts in both.

[1083] Yes.

[1084] Like if you told me that like Saquon pulls off and AJ Brown get like early and then you just hold 14 to 21 points for the vast majority of the game.

[1085] And it's never particularly close.

[1086] I believe that.

[1087] if you scored seven points and the entire season, you just had a stake on Barkley suddenly feels like it didn't happen as they go on.

[1088] Or something like that.

[1089] Like I can also believe that version of it.

[1090] And then I can also believe the chiefs just.

[1091] Uncorking a barn burner.

[1092] It's like, oh, yeah, we didn't do offense all season.

[1093] But now when we got to actually win to get the historical accomplishment, we're going to go score 35 points.

[1094] And they're going to win 33 to 30.

[1095] And there's going to be the thing that I'm worried about is, of course.

[1096] that the refs uh feel like they got involved in a way that they shouldn't have because i think it will make football impossible for the next 18 months for me you know what i mean and i don't i'm not a conspiracy theorist i don't think that the that that that there's a top -down order to protect mahomes or whatever also smart players take advantage of like of course of course it's easy for me to say that it's like it's not going against my team that mahomes flop a couple of weeks ago was one of the most embarrassing things i've ever seen athlete do you know the commentators never call shit like that out they never denigrate players in in that way i think it was troy aikman was like oh god like no this can't be in the like my sacred game so it sounds like stuff like that I suspect we'll get addressed in the off season or, or in some capacity.

[1097] But once you've got even like Troy Aikman going to Patrick, wasn't protected the way my homes is protected.

[1098] No, I think it's part of where the disgust comes from is like, like, Oh, he was given many concussions for his service to, to the game of football.

[1099] That's right.

[1100] Uh, and now it's just like, you don't wait, you don't have to eat that.

[1101] You don't have to stand, stand in there and just take that.

[1102] Uh, the way they can't pile drive you.

[1103] Can you imagine?

[1104] Yeah, I'd be, it would be, and I'm not a, I had it hard.

[1105] So the next generation has to have it hard, but it's the flopping that gets me. And the, and the use of, is he scrambling or is he a runner?

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] And sort of keeping that ambiguous about like how you can hit him and where they, there, there's a lot of that.

[1108] There's a lot of, there's a lot of gray areas.

[1109] uh that have sort of been brought into the game and yeah he he exploits them for maximum the same as Aaron Rodgers uh like mastering like drawing uh the free play off yeah um it it it's cool but it does feel like uh sort of a pickpocket move where it's like that was you know you didn't earn that yeah maybe Roger Goodall gets involved and is like I want you to call this hard for both teams I want you to be I want you to like make them hurt.

[1110] Don't call – don't call those things because there's so much attention right now on how soft we've – the perspective, the optics have been so bad around Mahomes.

[1111] You've got to overcorrect towards – Nobody wants flags in a Super Bowl though.

[1112] No one wants flags in a Super Bowl.

[1113] That's what I'm saying.

[1114] That's what I'm saying.

[1115] And that's the problem.

[1116] Like this is why people get away with shit though too.

[1117] Like so the thing that always bugs me is if a pass rusher is too good, they just let people hold them.

[1118] Yeah, this is the Khalil Mack thing.

[1119] The entire Watt family, Khalil Mack, if you're just too good at blowing up plays, the officials just suddenly get real nearsighted when it comes to arm bars, like tugs on a jersey.

[1120] They just don't see it.

[1121] And that's the stuff that really does bug me because it's like, well, you can't call it every play.

[1122] And we complain about there's too many flags in this game.

[1123] But also there's certain types of routine fractions that are just allowed that sort of neutralize what some players' strengths are.

[1124] And then there's others where it's like, oh, wait, you can't do that to him.

[1125] That's right.

[1126] Jalen Carter gets held six times a game for the Eagles, and it's like that's just part of the game.

[1127] Well, also, he's so good that they're going to hold him.

[1128] I will say this.

[1129] The NFL let Justin Fields.

[1130] get his shit rocked yeah for multiple years now you know our offense sucked he was left he was putting a lot of vulnerabilities but they like yeah there were multiple incidents where it was like that was not a clean hit he is sliding someone targets his head no flags like the degree to which there are it does feel like there are league politics about which players get to be the face and protected and which it's like uh yeah enjoy your tbi pal That I think is the shit that bugs me. It's less sort of the sense that the NFL is putting the thumb on the scale for games.

[1131] It is that the NFL puts its thumb on the scale for assets.

[1132] And if you don't get identified as an asset, then you don't enjoy the full protection of the franchise quarterback.

[1133] We were just talking about the way that those in power will apply rules and laws selectively and the dangers therein.

[1134] Different circumstances, but here we are in the lovely NFL, which is not political at all, by the way.

[1135] There's no politics in the NFL, capital or lowercase p. We should address, because this is a chaotic time.

[1136] And I do think people want us to speak to this because that's why they listen to Waypoint for this, listen to Remap for this.

[1137] And that is, of course, the NBA trades this week.

[1138] Motherfucker.

[1139] We weren't, you know, we aren't going to turn a blind.

[1140] We aren't going to turn away from the NBA trade deadline on sports.

[1141] Man, what's happening in the NBA right now?

[1142] Never been closer to actually wondering.

[1143] If there is a conspiracy afoot with the Luka trade, because none of it makes any sense.

[1144] Wild to me. That feels that it does feel like someone's going to be given a briefcase of cash.

[1145] Oh, yeah.

[1146] Somewhere like later.

[1147] It's a it is a weird one because at least a lowercase C conspiracy.

[1148] Do you know what I mean?

[1149] Like, so, yeah.

[1150] So Luka Doncic, who's like one of the five best players in the NBA, like higher, lower than that, depending on the year he was.

[1151] Yeah.

[1152] The Mavs had no business being in the finals against the Celtics.

[1153] I think they only won one game, but they only won it because he's unbelievable.

[1154] He was eligible for what they call a Supermax deal.

[1155] Something like 350 over five years.

[1156] I think next year with the Mavs.

[1157] The Dallas Mavericks end up trading him to the Los Angeles.

[1158] I think part of the reason this is so...

[1159] It's the Los Angeles fucking...

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Lakers.

[1162] He didn't get traded to.

[1163] There are other great teams he could have been traded to, and we would have been like, oh, that's weird.

[1164] That's a weird trade, but okay.

[1165] But it's the Lakers.

[1166] But he wasn't shocked.

[1167] Like, by all the accounting, public and private, the reporting is just that at some point, the Mavs decided, like, whether.

[1168] Now, look, one of my favorite clips of Luka from the last couple of years is I think it's, I don't know if it was in the finals when they won a game or they had won the conference, and, like, he's drinking a beer.

[1169] And like an assistant GM comes over in the hallway and takes it out of his hand.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] And it's tied to an ongoing quote issue, which like sometimes Luca enjoys his summer and then he comes in and he has some conditioning issues and he's, you know, he's a little huffing and puffing out on the court.

[1172] And eventually that kind of rounds out as the season goes along.

[1173] Maybe for some reason they thought that was going to be a long -term issue, but I just, they didn't negotiate with any, mostly when this happens teams, publicly acknowledged leak out through, you know, uh, you know, when Waj was still doing it now, it's like the one guy these days is like, Oh, he's available for a trade to drive up the price.

[1174] They talked to one team and essentially did a player swap.

[1175] I know that there was a pick involved, but like essentially give us end of his career, Anthony Davis, who can like get it together on a good day, but it's often injured for stretches.

[1176] And it's still like a fun player, but like not in his prime for not even yet in his prime, Luca.

[1177] And he said that to the Lakers, a team that does not need like to be gifted another generational player for the next 10 years.

[1178] Like, no, you're supposed to keep paying LeBron the way you kept paying Kobe and start sucking shit for at least a little while.

[1179] And instead, like LeBron will get to a like exit gracefully, probably get one more final shot with Luca.

[1180] And then Luke is the face of the Lakers for another 10 years.

[1181] It's I hate it.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] Well, you got to sell jerseys, my man. But I like Luka, which is the problem.

[1184] I also like LeBron.

[1185] Yeah, totally.

[1186] I'll be watching the Lakers and enjoying.

[1187] I mean, Luka plays a brand of basketball that I – he's a real whiner, but, like, I don't know.

[1188] But he's a fun – he's fun to watch.

[1189] He's such a fun whiner.

[1190] He must be miserable to have your team play against.

[1191] I'd imagine Celtics fans, others, fucking hate Luka.

[1192] But as a neutral observer whose basketball team – The curse of the 90s Bulls is that I will never watch any more good basketball.

[1193] And I suppose that's an acceptable curse.

[1194] But I would imagine the teams that go up against Luka hate him with a passion.

[1195] A thing that I think is fun about Luka that's interesting.

[1196] I mean, so it goes with the Lakers.

[1197] Lakers, obviously, one of the top, probably the most beloved and hated team.

[1198] And I guess maybe the Celtics are more hated.

[1199] I don't know.

[1200] They're the Dallas Cowboys of the NBA, right?

[1201] Like, they're the most popular NBA franchise.

[1202] Yes, 100 % in that way.

[1203] The Lakers are saying, yeah.

[1204] Another thing about this that I think is really funny is just, maybe y 'all don't know this, black folks love Luka.

[1205] Luka plays the game with a style that we like a lot, historically.

[1206] He is not, you know, everyone's like, yeah, Jokic is great.

[1207] Or, you know, there's lots of...

[1208] Paul Gasol was fantastic.

[1209] You know, there's a lot of European players that play a specific European style of ball that is like really good.

[1210] But Luca, I think specifically there's a really great, you should look up Allen Iverson talking about Luca because he's like, he's like afraid to say it.

[1211] He's like, he plays, he plays like a black guy.

[1212] And there is, and Luca has an attitude like.

[1213] contracted with yokich who is a doesn't want to be here the first google result i get for googling this is just i don't know who a greg's court is on youtube but it just says iverson colon luka plays like a black guy he got swag he got swag yokich does not have swag yokich has skill yeah right but he doesn't have swag luka has swag on and off the court he's he's cool with it in a way that Most players, period, are not.

[1214] And most European players are definitely not because it's a different – you come up through the sport differently.

[1215] But Luka has it, and I think they're going to sell a billion Luka Doncic jerseys, Laker jerseys.

[1216] And so that's where it starts to feel like a conspiracy where it's like the money is just there for everybody involved in such a big way.

[1217] You have to be like, well, yeah, that's why they didn't shop him around.

[1218] They got an unbeatable deal, you know?

[1219] I'm sorry.

[1220] They didn't.

[1221] The Mavs got nothing.

[1222] I don't understand.

[1223] I don't understand what the Mavs – It's a generational player.

[1224] AD is great.

[1225] Right.

[1226] It's a – like this is like – we were talking about Zach Levine earlier.

[1227] He was a good player that the Bulls overpaid because they didn't have another superstar.

[1228] So you – You need to pay him.

[1229] You have to.

[1230] It was maybe not the correct move, but in terms of the roster construction, he was available for a Supermax.

[1231] So they paid him the super max.

[1232] They should have traded him and done sort of like sign and trade deals, but they didn't.

[1233] And so I don't blame Levine for being stuck with like, I'm the superstar.

[1234] So they paid the superstar.

[1235] But like Levine, I'm not going to shed any tears.

[1236] I'm being gone, even though I enjoyed watching and play basketball and stretches.

[1237] I, when I woke up and saw this, like much like I was like, oh, someone like Shams got hacked.

[1238] Like, I don't understand.

[1239] Is he going to start selling Mac books also like from his account up next?

[1240] Cause there's just nothing.

[1241] What are you going to do with, like, it's one thing if you're, like, OKC or these other teams, like, we're just going to shed talent amass in this first round draft picks and then build from there.

[1242] Like, you don't, there's no natural pivot.

[1243] Like, Kyrie finally started, they made, they turned Kyrie, they got him to shut the fuck up and, like, just play good basketball.

[1244] And now, like, I don't know what happens with him down there.

[1245] I mean, I'll be honest, I don't know what happens with the Lakers this year.

[1246] Because they already had big man problems.

[1247] They didn't have a good center.

[1248] They don't, yeah.

[1249] This doesn't really solve that.

[1250] This isn't solving that.

[1251] Maybe they'll pick somebody else up this week.

[1252] The trade deadline is Wednesday, Thursday, something like that.

[1253] There have been – I don't know if it will happen.

[1254] There have been rumors of LeBron to the Warriors because he would solve some of their issues.

[1255] But he said today that he is not – he has a no trade thing and he's not waiving that.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] Now that Luka is here.

[1258] I mean, wouldn't you want, like, I don't think the team makes a ton of sense, but you just tell me point blank, like, would you want to play Luka and LeBron in the playoffs?

[1259] The answer is fucking no. I don't care if they don't have a center or maybe like whatever.

[1260] Like those are just two names for like this young, like unbelievable player.

[1261] And then the Tom Brady of the, of like the NBA.

[1262] I'll watch that.

[1263] How do you think JJ Redick feels?

[1264] i wish there was this is the problem with the lakers is like they have enough people i want there to be a behind the scenes show following them around for this like i'm so mad there's not we're not getting the hard knocks you know from both of these camps right now yeah oh it's a bizarre i just want to know what they how did they feel when the call came in because again the understanding of the reporting is luca was not asking out luca was ready to play the national rest of his life so he was not He was not like, I want out.

[1265] He wouldn't make a public post saying, trade me. So what was that call like?

[1266] Do we know if it started with LA reaching out to the Mavs or did the Mavs reach out to LA?

[1267] The way the Mavs GM put it was like, well, we just had a cup of coffee and it was, I kind of proposed, would you ever think of?

[1268] And then he's like, he just kind of went from there.

[1269] What do you mean, whatever?

[1270] Like, would you take a completely lopsided?

[1271] I don't trade like, you know what I mean?

[1272] Like it doesn't make like, yeah, I think the Lakers like GM or whoever was who started by like called someone's like, I think I'm getting punked, but I'm just going to keep talking to him.

[1273] And then at some point you actually signed the deal.

[1274] Like it just doesn't make any sense.

[1275] There are certain trades you can make in like sports management games that the AI will stop.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] Stop it.

[1278] And this one is, I don't, I don't get, I do not see the vision.

[1279] I don't.

[1280] I keep waiting for Adam Silver to announce an investigation.

[1281] You know what I mean?

[1282] Like, what do we do?

[1283] Maybe I said this already.

[1284] Could you imagine being a Dallas sports fan right now?

[1285] Being a Mavs fan.

[1286] I mean, like, heartbroken.

[1287] Oh, my God.

[1288] It's one thing if you can prep yourself where like, oh, the player empowerment era where like guys just like they want to go where they want to go.

[1289] They want to team up with who they become friends with and yada.

[1290] And it's like you can you can reconcile that.

[1291] It's probably still breaks your heart.

[1292] But at least there's like that's almost that's like a two year process for like stuff like that to play out or at least a whole season.

[1293] You just woke up on Sunday morning and go like what happened overnight?

[1294] And the Mavs were going to probably make it to the play in this year.

[1295] You know?

[1296] Now they're not.

[1297] They were just in the finals.

[1298] I know.

[1299] I know.

[1300] I know.

[1301] I don't get it.

[1302] I don't know.

[1303] I don't know.

[1304] Maybe Luca killed someone.

[1305] And they know.

[1306] And they're covering it up.

[1307] And they're like, get out of here.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] Like a priest.

[1310] You know?

[1311] The Catholic Church moves them around.

[1312] I'm allowed to say this.

[1313] I grew up Catholic.

[1314] Nightmare.

[1315] church yeah it's it's it's such a it's such a a weird thing uh i don't but here's the other thing i feel like this does have potential to make the lebron area even more disappointing because like oh yeah so the anthony davis lebron pairing never lived up to the billing uh ad never quite looked like the player he promised to be when he's on the pelicans uh where it was like this this guy is going to be just unreal he's very very good but the injuries uh you know like he did not become sort of the the pillar of that team that i think was was intended yep um and then lebron's in this odd phase of his career where you know the the rap is chases stats but is not motivated by anything but that like if if he gets the sense that a championship is not in the offing he just kind of disappears and starts like playing real selectively i'm not sure this changes that um so like i don't know there maybe maybe this is the first step in like just kind of admitting this this era kind of is over and so we're we're now like rapidly trying to build a bridge to the next one i just do not understand like i just don't understand why the maps do it Like I fundamentally don't.

[1316] I don't see the vision.

[1317] It's not like.

[1318] It's not like basketball is in a sport like you can give away a guy like that.

[1319] And like but look at look at all the pieces you're going to get to rebuild with.

[1320] Yeah.

[1321] You know, with rosters this tight.

[1322] The value of the right piece is so much higher than in football.

[1323] I yeah, I don't know.

[1324] I don't know what we're going to see.

[1325] I mean, you know, maybe LeBron plays out the year and says, hey, I got to play with one of the best people in the generation after me. And there are two generations after at this point.

[1326] His reign has been so long.

[1327] King James.

[1328] And then he's like, cool, I'm done.

[1329] I got to play with my son.

[1330] And then that's it.

[1331] And then we see the Lakers try to build around Luca for the next five, 10 years, you know, but.

[1332] I yeah, I just don't know.

[1333] It's it's a strange place to be.

[1334] And obviously there will be other trades this week.

[1335] And whatever we say now isn't going to matter because by the time we get off this call, there could be another free Jimmy Butler.

[1336] I mean, yeah, free Jimmy.

[1337] Yeah, we still don't know.

[1338] Jimmy go.

[1339] Well, he was he was connected to the Warriors, but he didn't want they wanted him to sign an extension.

[1340] They're like, we're not going to give up a bunch of assets and have you.

[1341] jump ship you know a year later to a better a better spot and so i'll tell you who i think quietly is has the best chance of booming right now is the maybe not quietly but the spurs the aaron fox of the spurs is such a good trade yeah well they're finally pulling the trigger on getting like wimby like okay time to start it's time to do like winning yep you know the average person doesn't know who wimby is like that he'll have that'll change moment it's like at some point in the coming years um but Yeah, they do feel like they're they're finally kind of building an actual team.

[1342] Yeah, 100 percent.

[1343] You know, we could see what the rest of this season looks like for them.

[1344] Like, it's truly not that they are going to win the conference or anything, but like they might start competing at a level that's I mean, we'll see.

[1345] I don't know how pop is doing these days.

[1346] I mean, that's going to be the real thing, right?

[1347] Yeah, he's had some health issues.

[1348] So I think that my big question is like.

[1349] Who runs that team after Pop steps away and can they do the thing Pop did, which was like make the Spurs an unbeatable force for years in a way that like just really – no one is super excited about them, but they're secretly the best team in basketball because they just work.

[1350] It seemed like they kind of kept him around.

[1351] Like there were rumors of him retiring before they – lucked into drafting Wemby.

[1352] Yeah, I think he's meant to.

[1353] And then I think he's sort of like, all right, I'll stick around, like, try and get this kid set up for success.

[1354] And then by that time, he has some sort of succession plan in play.

[1355] He's like 78, right?

[1356] Like, he's up there.

[1357] He's up there.

[1358] Meanwhile, the Warriors, I think, are done.

[1359] I think it's over.

[1360] I think it's, it's, I don't think, I think Jimmy goes with the Warriors and loses, you know?

[1361] And I've rooted for the Warriors for certain years, you know?

[1362] But I think.

[1363] They're due for a, like, Clay Thompson was, like, part of the medicine.

[1364] And.

[1365] I think, well, now they're like weirdly, it's like a step.

[1366] You don't think of Steph Curry as being exceptionally old, but, and he's not, but they're about to enter the, like, these are the twilight years of, of, of him at his best.

[1367] The type of basketball he plays will last longer.

[1368] Like it's cause it's not, doesn't require being as physical on the paint, but you probably need to eat, you know, take your medicine for a year and then figure out what does a team look like that even gives us a shot at a ring, at least one more to sort of cap off.

[1369] like his career uh yeah and maybe i'm wrong maybe jimmy shows up and revitalizes the team that's been the pattern but jimmy's also gotten older like i feel like butler the thing about butler in miami is like he put that team on his back the notion that the heat in the way they've handled this negotiation i think there's a there there's this vibe that like well no one's bigger than the heat Who were you before he showed up?

[1370] Like, like since, since LeBron skipped town, like who have you been since Jimmy Butler showed up and like made people give a shit.

[1371] And, but to drag them to those finals, I think used up a lot of his body.

[1372] He's always been a, like, you know.

[1373] The reason people don't like him is he's too much of a grinder.

[1374] He's too much of a guy who sort of very pointedly grabs the lunch pail and clocks in and never takes a shift off and people find it a little grating.

[1375] I like Jimmy Butler a lot.

[1376] I think he rules.

[1377] I love Jimmy.

[1378] But I think he put a lot of mileage on his body carrying that team.

[1379] And I think in the last like the last couple of years, that last finals appearance, you'd see the injuries start to pile up.

[1380] So I'm not sure he has that ability to inject like life into a franchise anymore.

[1381] But I think he's one of the few players who I trust more for the because it's more than just showing up as like a statistical, like showing up as a pile of stats that are going to like sort of play for your team.

[1382] There can be a cultural element to this as well.

[1383] And I, I think there is, I think Butler has that thing.

[1384] Um, so I could, I could see it working out, uh, you know, him, him going new place and, and sort of breathing new life into it.

[1385] Cause when he's all, when he's out on a place, he's all the way out when he's in, he's all the way in.

[1386] Um, but I just don't know if, you know, at this stage of his career, whether that still works.

[1387] Right.

[1388] Um, yeah, I'm curious.

[1389] I, uh, we'll see.

[1390] I don't know.

[1391] It's funny as I'm still like, uh, Four years ago, I was like, maybe I'll become a Grizzlies fan, a Memphis Grizzlies fan.

[1392] I was actually just in Memphis.

[1393] I just saw the pyramid.

[1394] I saw the Great Pyramid of Memphis, the Bass Pro Shop, which, by the way, there's a hotel in there.

[1395] I did end up staying there.

[1396] Incredible.

[1397] It would have been like $100 less a night.

[1398] I would have stayed there for a night just to do the Bass Pro Shop thing.

[1399] Wait, sorry.

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] sorry i missed that is there a hotel in the in the pro shop in in the pro shop in the giant pro shop there's like a restaurant inside the bass pro shop sleep inside the pyramid also i heard a story about that place which i maybe i'll just do a quick google search to see it bass pro shop skull okay yeah it's true it's true uh what i heard was so that that pyramid the pier the bass pro shop this is sporting related sporting fishing is a sport you're sporting You can do it here.

[1402] When the pyramid was made, eventually the pyramid gets made.

[1403] It ends up getting sold once or twice.

[1404] And at some point someone notices that there are like, this is the way it was told to me. I'm not reading this from the thing.

[1405] Eventually people started noticing that there were like workers hanging out in like the high rafters at the very tip of the pyramid.

[1406] And.

[1407] Someone was finally like, why are you up there?

[1408] What's up there?

[1409] What's going on?

[1410] And apparently, the person who founded the Hard Rock Cafe and then paid for the creation of, or partially, you know, did the pyramid, put a crystal skull, welded a crystal skull in a box to the top of the pyramid.

[1411] And the new owners were like, What's that weird box up there?

[1412] Get it down.

[1413] They open it up.

[1414] There's a crystal skull in there.

[1415] And as it was told to me, when they asked this guy, why is it there?

[1416] He's like, oh, yeah, my guru materialized this crystal skull for me and told me to put it in the box at the top of the pyramid.

[1417] And they get rid of it.

[1418] They removed it.

[1419] I would have kept it up there.

[1420] Yeah, I don't think you should mess with that.

[1421] I mean, now the Bass Pro Shop is cursed.

[1422] And now the Memphis Grizzlies are cursed.

[1423] They don't even play there anymore.

[1424] I was reading this.

[1425] I vaguely heard of this, but I have not really read up on this.

[1426] This building was originally envisioned as a major cultural attraction called the Great American Period in the 1950s.

[1427] The original plans for the location included a hard rock cafe, a college football hall of fame, and a radio station.

[1428] The first iteration of the pyramid mostly functioned as a basketball and concert event space only.

[1429] Unfortunately, the site wasn't very popular in either regard.

[1430] Players reportedly called it the Tomb of Doom in reference to its insular setting with what Forbes called, quote, near vertical stands and imposing structure.

[1431] As a basketball arena, the pyramid was out of this world.

[1432] It's like the opposite of a shape that you need for an arena.

[1433] So this is Penny Hardaway.

[1434] As a basketball arena, the pyramid was out of this world.

[1435] It wasn't natural.

[1436] It wasn't normal, said Penny Hardaway.

[1437] It was loud because of how the sound went to a point in the top of the arena.

[1438] We had a humongous home court advantage because like just the sheer lack of proper acoustics created a booming effect while they know they didn't stay there.

[1439] They built their own.

[1440] Yeah, they did.

[1441] But they played there for a little bit.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] That's so funny.

[1444] Anyway, I didn't go in.

[1445] I really wish I had.

[1446] To what degree is all this just stemming from the fact that like.

[1447] Memphis is the Bills to Nashville's Kansas City Chiefs.

[1448] Yeah, that seems great.

[1449] God damn it.

[1450] Nashville this.

[1451] Got to go to Nashville for the food.

[1452] Got to go there for the music.

[1453] What about Memphis?

[1454] Well, you know what?

[1455] Memphis.

[1456] Like Egypt.

[1457] Antiquity.

[1458] Pyramids.

[1459] Memphis of America.

[1460] It's right on the river.

[1461] It's basically the Nile of America.

[1462] Et voila.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] A pyramid for a sporting goods store.

[1465] It's one of the biggest pyramids in the world.

[1466] It's 98 feet tall.

[1467] The only ones taller than that are the Great Pyramid of Giza, the Pyramid of Carfe, the Red Pyramid, the Bent Pyramid, and then Luxor in Vegas.

[1468] All the rest of the pyramids in the world are smaller than the Memphis.

[1469] How impressive is that, though?

[1470] It gets a lot easier when you use reinforced steel and not slaves.

[1471] You're right.

[1472] No, of course it's not impressive in the construction sense, but when I was there in the shadow of the pyramid looking up, I was imposed upon by its size and stature.

[1473] I looked out of the window of the, not Best Western, but whatever the fuck it was I was staying in, downtown Memphis, and I looked out and saw the pyramid, and I was aghast.

[1474] I looked upon the wonders our human hands had made.

[1475] I'll send you a picture of it if I can find the picture of it.

[1476] It's after this one of the dominoes in Roswell, New Mexico, where I also was recently, where Roswell, New Mexico is just covered in little aliens and little kitschy aliens nonstop.

[1477] It's everywhere.

[1478] Here it is.

[1479] Reference to the show.

[1480] Right, of course, the show Roswell, of course.

[1481] Here, I've sent you both the Roswell picture, which has an alien holding a Domino's pizza flag, and then the view from the 10th floor of this hotel with the pyramid in the distance.

[1482] It's bizarre.

[1483] That's gorgeous.

[1484] That is weird.

[1485] It's gorgeous.

[1486] Now, also, I don't know why it looks like I'm standing on like a...

[1487] Balcony?

[1488] I'm not.

[1489] That's below me. It's really bizarre.

[1490] Whatever hotel I was at was one of the strangest places I've been.

[1491] Anyway.

[1492] That's my journey.

[1493] I gotta go here.

[1494] You gotta go here.

[1495] Have you seen inside this place?

[1496] I'm looking.

[1497] I could go bowling.

[1498] You could go bowling.

[1499] Yeah, can we go, Rob?

[1500] Do they have a live stream space?

[1501] Could we meet up at the pyramid?

[1502] I bet.

[1503] I bet you could.

[1504] There's got to be something we can go down there.

[1505] And again, there's a hotel.

[1506] There's the Bath Pro Shop Hotel inside, and it looks like...

[1507] They've got to have a meeting room we can book.

[1508] Almost certainly.

[1509] Meetings.

[1510] Here we go.

[1511] Big Cypress Lodge meetings and celebrations.

[1512] Oh, my God.

[1513] These might be too big for us.

[1514] You know?

[1515] Well, that just means we've got to conceive of it differently.

[1516] The cattail boardroom seems about right.

[1517] It's the bottom one here on meetings and celebrations.

[1518] More about this venue.

[1519] Seats 10 people.

[1520] They got a big TV in there.

[1521] Maybe we need bigger than this, actually.

[1522] We take more space when we do a big stream.

[1523] The flyaway room.

[1524] People could come in and watch the show.

[1525] It's true.

[1526] Cattail boardroom is like where we decide to divide Vegas among us.

[1527] Flyaway room is where we organize the drug dealers of Baltimore.

[1528] That's right.

[1529] Look at these suites, by the way.

[1530] This is what the hotel rooms look like.

[1531] And even the non -suites look like this.

[1532] It's like the Great Northern from...

[1533] The indoors.

[1534] The outdoors indoors.

[1535] You ever just wanted to live in a Cracker Barrel?

[1536] This is fantastic.

[1537] For a weekend.

[1538] Not forever.

[1539] For a weekend, maybe.

[1540] Yeah, but for a little bit.

[1541] Yeah.

[1542] Just a quick thing back to sports real quick.

[1543] Please.

[1544] We never left sports.

[1545] Regarding the NBA.

[1546] But yes.

[1547] I wonder to what degree also some of the wildness is a reflection of the fact that the new CBA and the second apron rule around the salary cap has created some really weird inflexibility around star players and what you can actually build.

[1548] In the future, it's you should look it up if you haven't the.

[1549] Because it's kind of complicated in how it works, but basically like the NBA had a soft salary cap.

[1550] And then if you went over it, you you know, you paid a luxury tax and fundamentally you were punished in terms of going over the salary gap in the NBA.

[1551] You had to spend more per dollar that you were actually willing to pay people.

[1552] There were some other penalties that kicked in.

[1553] Now there's like a new level of, well, now you're really over the salary.

[1554] You can lose draft picks as well.

[1555] Like it's basically like you can have an owner overpay for like a championship window.

[1556] Like you can sustain this for a brief window of time.

[1557] And then it's a way of imposing many ways, like a closer to like the end, like the NFL enjoys.

[1558] mostly parody, even though we have the Chiefs in the Super Bowl for potentially three times in a row.

[1559] But that's an extraordinary in and of itself to their ability to pull that off in a league that pushes for that.

[1560] And that's one of the analysis I saw of what makes the Luka trade all that more infuriating is that he is the kind of player at his best that we're moving away.

[1561] It's going to be much harder to create super teams of two or three players that define things like the Heat era of LeBron.

[1562] And instead, it's more like...

[1563] how much can you get away with with one singular blockbuster piece and have them lift the floor of the players around them?

[1564] And like a lot of these Mavs teams like are mostly anonymous players that are around a Luca and the kinds of players that can do that are pretty few and far between.

[1565] And you just gave the Lakers one.

[1566] So that like helps you in this new salary cap era in a way that is unique to his style of play.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] One of the goofy things is that they basically don't let you keep trading draft picks infinitely into the future because one of the ways that front offices would put these deals together is you almost think of it as like denominations of bills.

[1569] And to get certain deals across the finish line, you just started busting out your roll of draft picks and just like feeding your people.

[1570] It's like your grandparents sticking a CD in a gift card.

[1571] Sorry.

[1572] a certificate of deposit uh it was a very huge with grandparents uh once upon a time uh that'll be more money later uh now i know that might not seem exciting at age eight but boy you'll be glad you have that when you're 18 uh i was not i can't forget about it it's cool that's neat uh also i have no money so i didn't learn anything about investing sorry grandma anyway um but the point is like so they're kind of they kind of put a A lock on that.

[1573] You can't keep structuring deals that way.

[1574] And if you stay, if you keep staying in the second apron zone, so like I think they basically you're forced to keep your pick, but it goes to the end of the first round.

[1575] So basically like they're telling teams like do not stay in the second apron, like get your team back under the cap.

[1576] I do wonder last thought here.

[1577] Is this good?

[1578] Like I never, I don't like the super teams counterpoint.

[1579] Yeah.

[1580] The NBA was more intelligible in the age of the super team.

[1581] You know what I mean?

[1582] Like, like I think it's good for the football to some degree that the chiefs create a narrative that lasts year to year.

[1583] And you always remember like, Oh man, it's, it's, it's Josh Allen versus my homes.

[1584] Part three, part four.

[1585] Great.

[1586] I think it was good.

[1587] It was like the Heat just put together a team built to win championships, and then they didn't.

[1588] And then it was like, can they get it together?

[1589] I think these are good stories.

[1590] I think the Hamptons 5 was a good story.

[1591] The collapse of that lineup was a good story.

[1592] I think it was probably to the good that the NBA had a problem of teams forming impossible final bosses.

[1593] that existed within conferences and well i think when you bust up the ability for people to do that you're going to bust up the story and it becomes like players just kind of move around but where do they fit in the where do they fit in the story of the story of the season story of the era You know, one of the things we just haven't said, maybe we mentioned it in passing, is like the NBA ratings are in the dumpster right now.

[1594] It's as bad as it's been in a long, long time.

[1595] Whether that's a problem or not is another question.

[1596] You know, we live in a weird world where I know a lot of people are just watching on streaming sites.

[1597] Those are not counting towards anything.

[1598] And also the NBA is not like...

[1599] It's a different machine than the NFL in terms of being like, it's Sunday, it's game day, we're watching, there's an event.

[1600] It's different.

[1601] But I will say, I do think that, Rob, you've hit something really important, which is sports fandom is about narratives, and I do think the NBA is struggling.

[1602] I think that men's basketball is really struggling when it comes to narratives right now.

[1603] I think college men's basketball especially is struggling because the best talent is just leaving instantly.

[1604] Whereas women's basketball and women's college basketball is allowed to build continuity and identity.

[1605] Players are staying for years and getting to you're getting to learn what Iowa is like and what type of ball do they play and who are their stars?

[1606] You know, Caitlin Clark, it doesn't become Caitlin Clark.

[1607] If she's there, she's in the collegiate play for a year and then moves on.

[1608] She's not as good, first of all, if she doesn't develop over the course of a college career.

[1609] And then also, you don't get to tell the story.

[1610] You don't get to tell the running rivalry story.

[1611] And I think that anything that you can do in a sport to make the game legible in that way is going to help it become bigger.

[1612] We used to have this talk all the time at Waypoint about esports and the FGC and competitive gaming in general.

[1613] It's like, how do you make that legible for an audience?

[1614] And we were doing documentaries and stuff.

[1615] And the number one way you make anything that people don't understand legible is by giving them human stories.

[1616] And the Nets super team was a human story fundamentally.

[1617] The Kevin Durant going to the Warriors, that's a story about – people, you know?

[1618] And that ends up being a way that you get people to understand and root for and root against.

[1619] Patrick Mahomes going for a three -peat is a story.

[1620] There's something, you know, wow, this thing has never been done.

[1621] It's really clear.

[1622] You don't need to know about different packages.

[1623] You don't need to know the difference between eye formation and shotgun and pistol, and you don't need to understand different coverages and the defense to understand what a great catch looks like.

[1624] You just need to have, you need to be like, whoa, he hit Kelsey.

[1625] I know.

[1626] Kelsey is that like is clean and clear and so I think the value of the super team if you want to make that case is that players you don't need to know you don't need to know who Austin Reeves is on the Lakers but you're now going to know who LeBron is you're not going to know who Luka is and the first time that Luka does some wild ass pass or LeBron you know what I mean like they connect in some some incredible way the whole crowd is going to go crazy for it And I think that the more of that is if what your goal is, is an NBA that people are caring for and rooting for teams and getting invested in.

[1627] I think that you're probably right, Rob.

[1628] It's better to have five or six really clear identity driven teams than it is to have the sort of scattershot.

[1629] OK, well, we have Giannis and then we kind of build around Giannis and that's the Giannis team.

[1630] Like, that's not really no offense to the rest of the team that won with Giannis four years ago or whatever, but like.

[1631] No offense to the Suns, who they beat that year, but Book and CP3, and who was there at the time?

[1632] What's his face?

[1633] Aiden?

[1634] Is that his name?

[1635] That was not a crew that was turning heads and people were getting excited by.

[1636] The NBA is stronger, I think you're right, when you have at least a few of those teams.

[1637] The Celtics are kind of one of those teams by nature of just talent, but they don't have personalities in the way that...

[1638] this Lakers team is now going to have.

[1639] I mean, that's what makes, you know, when Jokic, you know, won, that's something that Rob and I talked a lot.

[1640] I was like, this guy is such, he's such a weirdo in a really endearing way, but not, not for the cameras, right?

[1641] It's like, okay, so one of the most talented players in the sport is going to be charismatically unintelligible to the average viewer.

[1642] And so you're going to have, You constantly have like sports analysts, you know, be like this.

[1643] I mean, this is this is one of the great like one of the greats like could be a like top five, top ten player all time, all time.

[1644] Yeah, no. And that will all be argued by nerd and analysts and observers who care about the sport on like a fundamental athletic level, but never felt.

[1645] in the popular culture.

[1646] I think the Celtics have a similar problem.

[1647] Like they're an excellent, like well oiled machine with a bunch of boring fucking personalities.

[1648] Jason Tatum doesn't have it.

[1649] You know what I mean?

[1650] I mean, this is why people are excited about it, right?

[1651] It's like, it has it.

[1652] He's got it.

[1653] He's got it.

[1654] He'll flirt with being like, maybe I can be as good as MJ.

[1655] And you're like, shut the fuck up.

[1656] But I love, I love your energy.

[1657] I love it.

[1658] Yeah, exactly.

[1659] Exactly.

[1660] So I don't know.

[1661] We'll see.

[1662] I mean, there's such a deeper problem when you think about stuff.

[1663] We didn't even say the words all -star game.

[1664] But there's a problem in the NBA right now with players being – and I think it's very easy to make arguments about it being tied to the player empowerment era.

[1665] I think it's very easy to start saying some shit that falls into like crypto -conservatism in a really funny way.

[1666] So I'm going to watch myself here.

[1667] But my instinct is I miss it when – everyone was trying to like outdo other teams and if and that is what led to the super team era but the super team era is i'm with you rob i liked it more i really did for anything there's there's a couple things uh one is like you compare this move to the like durant joining the warriors it kind of feels like this should happen to players it doesn't feel like it was just a like the mavs blowing up their their team uh for for a handful of magic beans And, you know, just decided it was going to go this way.

[1668] Do you remember the narrative, like the secret, like, like meetings with Kevin Durant?

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] Like people trying to find where he was to try to get a counter offer.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] And so.

[1673] And then the stories that came out of that, too, because then it becomes whose team is it?

[1674] Is it Steph's team?

[1675] Is it KD's team?

[1676] You know, which presaged the fall because what's great about the dynasty is it's collapsed, too.

[1677] And the fact that it kind of felt like the old guard warriors were like, we don't get enough credit.

[1678] It's become the Kevin Durant show.

[1679] And it's like, cause he's the best player, but.

[1680] They resented the shit out of like they wanted it, but they didn't want it.

[1681] And that became the narrative, too, is that they had success, but also they were having less fun and they maybe didn't like the new guy as much.

[1682] And the new guy was enormously sensitive.

[1683] And so you had the whole psychodrama of that.

[1684] And Draymond Green is there.

[1685] Also sensitive on a different axis.

[1686] But yeah.

[1687] Oh, big time.

[1688] Yeah.

[1689] But 100 percent.

[1690] And I think maybe that's that is something else, too, which is that.

[1691] There is a...

[1692] I'm not advocating.

[1693] More people should be like Draymond.

[1694] I am.

[1695] No, I'm not.

[1696] There should always be one Draymond.

[1697] I genuinely believe this.

[1698] Well, I'll explain why in a second.

[1699] Go ahead, Rob.

[1700] But I do feel like some of it is...

[1701] There is a lack of...

[1702] NBA might benefit from a couple more mean guys.

[1703] And that doesn't necessarily mean guys who are like just knocking people the fuck out on the floor.

[1704] But like a little more...

[1705] I'm not here to make friends.

[1706] I'm not here to talk about like our game and like engaging on the cerebral love of the, like maybe a little more of the Chuck type of like, I'm here.

[1707] Like I'm going to kick your ass.

[1708] And I, I, cause that also helps make the narrative too.

[1709] Right.

[1710] If you have like players that visibly do not like each other, you know, teams that do not like each other.

[1711] And that also just there's a little bit of that missing as well in all this where I think the – it might overlap with player empowerment in part because like now they're all coworkers and they sort of like – they don't see each other as rivals in that way.

[1712] But I also think it's just maybe a bit of a shift toward as – basketball became more of a nerd sport and became more of an analytics driven sport.

[1713] The player became like, we kind of regard these guys in terms of efficiency more than style.

[1714] And I think that, that maybe, that maybe accounts for some of this as well, where it's like, it can be, these teams can feel a little anonymous.

[1715] It's why we cling to the LeBron and Steph era.

[1716] Even though it's over.

[1717] The curtain is down.

[1718] But we cling to it because we understood where they were situated in the sport.

[1719] A lot of the incoming players, it's harder to figure out.

[1720] Here's why Draymond Green is necessary.

[1721] Sociologists agree, generally, that deviance is natural.

[1722] And in fact, is what creates normativity.

[1723] You need something.

[1724] to push on the edges of normativity in order to understand what normativity is.

[1725] The rules of basketball allow for the type of play that Draymond Green pursues, which I mean fouling out, getting teched up, getting fined for punching someone.

[1726] All of those things are delimiting the range of what acceptable basketball play is.

[1727] And I mean acceptable, including getting suspended.

[1728] Getting suspended is inside of the rules of the game of basketball.

[1729] He's not getting removed from the league.

[1730] Until you're removed from the league.

[1731] Everything you do is basketball play.

[1732] Now, is that always good for the team?

[1733] Not necessarily.

[1734] He skipped a game because when he kicked LeBron in the balls, he was out for a game in the finals, right?

[1735] He was, 100%.

[1736] And that was it.

[1737] That turned that series, I believe, basically.

[1738] If he'd been there, they would have won that series.

[1739] I'm not saying it's good always for the Warriors to have this.

[1740] Though I do think that they needed him in the years that they had him, and I don't know that they had a defender who was anywhere as good as he was.

[1741] He was part of the magic formula.

[1742] Yes.

[1743] And, and, and him as a convenient villain was also, again, when I was speaking to like the psychology of like, what is your team makeup do to the other team that is not as ethereal as opposed to like alongside the lines of play, like that's part of what he, like they win far less if he is not part of their culture.

[1744] And in fact, they had two incredibly deviant players.

[1745] They had Draymond Green, who in the era of restricting defense was still playing hard defense.

[1746] And they have Steph Curry and Klay, who are hitting threes in a way that no one has ever seen before.

[1747] And both of those things push the league in different directions and help establish what a new mode of play looks like.

[1748] Now, maybe those things have actually constricted the league into a type of play no one likes to watch anymore.

[1749] But that is like, I don't think that he's an aberration.

[1750] I think that he's a normative deviant.

[1751] Like I think that's completely in the realm of what you – and I'm using deviant there.

[1752] Listen, deviant is one of these words like degenerate that has all sorts of terrible political things.

[1753] Also a good word though.

[1754] Good word and a powerful word.

[1755] And again, inside of a certain sociological schema, it's a normative part.

[1756] It's a part of the regular thing.

[1757] I mean this is like the opposite of over on Game Study Study Buddies.

[1758] They remind you every episode the social is predicated on its exclusions.

[1759] Draymond Green is never permanently excluded from the sport.

[1760] He maybe excludes himself socially often and temporarily many times.

[1761] But I think that that in general, I want and there's also just like a game design thing.

[1762] It's good to have the player who breaks the game.

[1763] It's the best thing you can have as a designer is to see someone like push on the edges of it.

[1764] And you have to go like, is it OK that the game allows that?

[1765] What if it only allows it one out of every hundred times?

[1766] Yeah, that's okay.

[1767] But if it's happening, if there were 10 Draymond Greens, there would be a fucking problem with the NBA.

[1768] But you need the thermometer.

[1769] They had an NBA that was like that once upon a time.

[1770] We got to get these guys out of here.

[1771] We got to slow this down 100%.

[1772] The NFL has decided, for instance, that you can't hit Patrick Mahomes, but you can hit Justin Fields.

[1773] Justin Fields is a thermometer on how hard and often quarterbacks are allowed to be hit.

[1774] That wasn't necessarily good.

[1775] But it's just part of the organism that is a game.

[1776] Sorry, we're going too far afield.

[1777] But there was...

[1778] God, I can't remember who it was in hockey who just committed like a...

[1779] I think it might have been Conor McDavid.

[1780] Just like piloted a guy into the boards.

[1781] Like gave a massive concussion.

[1782] That's filthy.

[1783] It was filthy play.

[1784] And it was kind of.

[1785] Yes.

[1786] There were some people making this defense though.

[1787] Which was that...

[1788] Hockey has a problem in that they've been reducing the fighting allowed in the sport and all that.

[1789] They're trying to make the game look less violent.

[1790] But they also historically allow their best players to get penalized without drawing fouls constantly.

[1791] The problem hockey has is there's tons of players who are just not nearly as good at hockey as hockey's actual legit stars.

[1792] And the league lets those lesser players constantly fuck.

[1793] with the most dynamic explosive players in the game.

[1794] And David, eventually this guy was like giving him cheap shots.

[1795] Like, like he's got a player for has a reputation for doing that.

[1796] And McDavid finally like lashed out and like served him up and like hurt the guy.

[1797] Right.

[1798] But it was also partly driven by the fact that hockey just lets good players just let's open season.

[1799] uh on like drag down good players so that they're like their statistical out outlierness doesn't break the game that's but they have gotten they've reduced the fact that hockey to its bones is a sport for better or worse that allowed a great deal of self -policing right and the the the sport was sort of designed we don't want to legislate necessarily like all these little things that happen on play we will instead allow teams to feel bruisers who are not hockey players, uh, to occasionally go out and adjudicate things to enforce themselves.

[1800] Yeah.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] And so there's, there's been this sort of discourse around like, man, they've kind of like diminished the role of the enforcer, but they haven't really built up what is supposed to be there in its place and escape valve.

[1803] Yeah.

[1804] And to a degree, like, again, you, you, you do sometimes need like, Those types of guys who are like, oh, yeah, you don't want that guy.

[1805] He's a mean son of a bitch.

[1806] You do not want that guy coming after you.

[1807] A lot of sports have tried to eliminate those guys from the game.

[1808] But part of the health ecosystem in a lot of ways was the ability to be like, oh, sorry, there's a foul written down.

[1809] I will pay the tax, but I'm going to do this thing.

[1810] As we all know, fines are just a way of saying it's illegal for poor people.

[1811] And so if you are the sort of team who can make up for the absence of one of your star players because they got suspended for being an enforcer, it doesn't hit you so bad.

[1812] I've always said if I had grown up five or ten years earlier, I probably would have been an Isaiah Thomas era Pistons guy.

[1813] I would have loved that style of hard knocks basketball.

[1814] Instead, I was born just in time to be a Jordan guy, and that's ruined basketball for me for the rest of my life, effectively.

[1815] I don't want to be from Chicago.

[1816] That's the thing.

[1817] You get to stay a Bulls fan, which I feel like I was pretending then because I didn't know any better.

[1818] Are you a 76ers fan?

[1819] I mean, I know you are.

[1820] No. We've been over the – not really.

[1821] No. You know what I mean?

[1822] But I should become one.

[1823] I should just lean in.

[1824] As a kid, I didn't like the 76ers because I liked Michael Jordan because I was six or whatever.

[1825] I was seven and he was gone.

[1826] He captured – people watched Jordan because they weren't watching for basketball.

[1827] They were watching for Jordan.

[1828] He just happened to play basketball.

[1829] And it's embarrassing to me because I could have been an Allen Iverson guy and I wasn't.

[1830] You know what I mean?

[1831] Like, that was the era.

[1832] I could have been a Barkley guy and I wasn't, but it's because Jordan.

[1833] I could have been an AI guy and I wasn't.

[1834] And so now it feels phony to put it on.

[1835] I want to take that out of context.

[1836] Like, I'm an AI guy.

[1837] No!

[1838] Ruined!

[1839] My reputation destroyed.

[1840] Alright, so as we wind our way out of here, where do we think this ends up?

[1841] I know we talked about different ways this game can go.

[1842] Rob, where do you think the Super Bowl ends up?

[1843] I feel like we're in for kind of an underwhelming low scoring game where the Chiefs win by like six points.

[1844] It's not a bad guess.

[1845] That is that is like that is where my gut goes as well is like these are two trench teams, right?

[1846] Like they both have exceptional defensive lines.

[1847] and really great coaches and i don't think it's going to be as dire as the uh rams patriots super bowl where i think the ram scored what three points and uh like ground the the rams into dust essentially using a blueprint that fangio came up with as a result of his time with the bears i don't think it's that but i expect that to at least be the first half and then i expect the second half things will loosen up but i i'm I believe in this Barkley train.

[1848] I want to see him run the fuck over this team.

[1849] And I think the Eagles win this.

[1850] And I think they win it by 10.

[1851] I think we're all sweating it at the end.

[1852] But I think this might be their year.

[1853] And I think this is where the Chiefs...

[1854] The dynasty does not end here.

[1855] But I think this version of the team comes to an end.

[1856] They rebuild for a year or two.

[1857] Kelsey retires, and it's just a different Chiefs on the other side.

[1858] But I think the Eagles pull this one out, win by 10 points.

[1859] I think we win by seven, or I think less.

[1860] I think we win by six, and the Eagles win by six.

[1861] And I think we're losing going into the second half, and we wear them down, and we get a breakaway Saquon run that pushes us in front, and then we manage to just hold on.

[1862] We get the thing that's been happening.

[1863] I think the thing that has not happened to the Chiefs this year finally happens.

[1864] I think he's driving, and Jalen Carter gets to him.

[1865] I think he throws to Travis Kelsey, and we get a pick.

[1866] I think the incredible moment happens, and they don't get the thrilling Chiefs -style win.

[1867] And I say that because we're going to get down to that.

[1868] And I need to hold in my heart that it's possible for our defense to do what no defense ever does, which is stop Patrick Mahomes when he's shining up the bat for the home run.

[1869] That's what I believe.

[1870] So six points, Eagles win.

[1871] Okay.

[1872] Well, we will see.

[1873] I think it's a 10 to 20.

[1874] I think it's 16 to 10.

[1875] I think it's 21.

[1876] You know what I mean?

[1877] I think it's probably something like that.

[1878] And also, I don't think that that's two field goals we're winning by.

[1879] I think that's a touchdown and we missed the extra point.

[1880] Yeah, that's a little more chaotic.

[1881] I think Jake Elliott misses, pulls an extra point.

[1882] I think Jake Elliott misses two kicks for the Eagles.

[1883] He's been a little inconsistent this year, right?

[1884] He's been a little inconsistent.

[1885] And he's been our best.

[1886] He's been there forever.

[1887] One of the best kickers in the league for a decade or whatever.

[1888] Since I think we had Akers before, maybe right before that.

[1889] Maybe we had a little gap between David Akers and him.

[1890] But yeah, we'll see.

[1891] All right, well, we will see, and we will report back.

[1892] Thanks to everyone for listening.

[1893] Thanks to 2Melo.

[1894] Fly, Eagles, Fly.

[1895] Fly, Eagles, Fly for the Remap Radio theme.

[1896] You can follow more of 2Melo's work at 2Melo .net, and you can support everything we do at Remap Radio by going to RemapRadio .com.

[1897] Austin, you just launched a game.

[1898] I did.

[1899] I launched a tabletop role -playing game called Realis, R -E -A -L -I -S.

[1900] You can read about it all over the place.

[1901] Rascal did a write -up for it, which is like a tabletop version of Remap.

[1902] We have an interview going up with, I think it's Chase Carter.

[1903] He reached out.

[1904] People will listen to you.

[1905] That will go out sometime in February.

[1906] Aligned with their doing like a pledge drive to drive up support for Rascal.

[1907] So Kato and I hopped on, chatted with Chase for a while.

[1908] And it was a very funny part.

[1909] I was doing my research, reading the website, wrapping my head around a space that I don't personally know a ton about.

[1910] But could not help but laugh when I saw that you had done an interview with them for this project.

[1911] And then I scroll down and there's just this one line that's like.

[1912] interview has been like like like uh edited for length and clarity and then and then i asked chase like what does that mean he's like wow it used to be like an eight page interview and then i started yeah we talked for a long time and and i will say chase got the game in a real big way does that make sense and to a degree that like oh He was asking good questions, you know?

[1913] And so I had a lot to talk about.

[1914] Yeah, you can read Madeline Rascal.

[1915] You can find it on thecalcitech .itch .io.

[1916] It's published.

[1917] You can also find it on impossibleworldsgames .com or possibleworlds on their itch .io page.

[1918] It's published by them.

[1919] Yeah, it's a tabletop.

[1920] It's a science fantasy tabletop game about conflicting sentences.

[1921] It's about...

[1922] archetypal big stone blocks of characters slowly being whittled away and changing.

[1923] The comparison I make is like, it's not like a lot of RPGs, both video game and tabletop are about adding things on.

[1924] You kind of have like, oh, I'm a rogue.

[1925] And then you add things onto the character.

[1926] Realis is a game about having a really broad character and then chipping away until you get something really specific.

[1927] It's like subtractive instead of being additive, if that makes sense.

[1928] It's been going great.

[1929] I have to go write a letter to be like, hey, thanks for the support for the last two weeks since we announced.

[1930] Here's what's coming up next.

[1931] It's an Ashcan release, which means it's not early access because it's not like I'm updating this document until the end.

[1932] It's sort of like...

[1933] More than a demo, less than a total beta of the game.

[1934] It has, I'd say, half of the content that the full thing is going to have.

[1935] A lot of that's written already, but it's not laid out, and there's not art for it.

[1936] So it doesn't have as much art as the full release will have, but it's been going great.

[1937] I've been really, really thrilled with the support it's gotten, and it seems like it's struck a nerve with people in a good way.

[1938] I believe I read this correctly, but you can correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you, if people support Friends at the Table, like at the Patreon, aren't you running?

[1939] I am running a campaign of it.

[1940] They're uninterested in the rules but want to hear it played out.

[1941] You're doing that somewhere.

[1942] Yes, I am.

[1943] And I believe I'm going to try to run a game.

[1944] So yeah, friendsofthetable .cash to go listen to that as it comes out week by week.

[1945] The first four episodes of it are also going to go out for free on the main feed of Friends of the Table, friendsofthetable .net.

[1946] And then I'm going to do a one -shot for the folks at NextLander in the next couple of – in the next month at some point is the plan.

[1947] So people can hear that also on the NextLander feed.

[1948] getting it out there doing my best hell yeah well congratulations that was really exciting because i know you've been working on that for a while years four years yeah since since yeah since uh i guess 2021 which is a wild thing so thanks for uh for shouting it out i've forgotten to do it because i'm being um worried about the eagles you went to sports mode that's fine yeah i'm in sports mode exactly exactly thanks everyone for listening fly eagles fly Fuck capitalism.

[1949] Bear down.

[1950] I hope they lose by a field goal that doinks twice.

[1951] Oh my goodness.

[1952] Oh, okay.

[1953] That's fair.

[1954] I'll also accept that.

[1955] It's possible.

[1956] I would, you know, sometimes that's your due.