16 - Blood Murder Sixteen Magik

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] We're recording.

[17] Jesus Christ.

[18] Hey.

[19] Hi, Karen.

[20] Hi, Georgia.

[21] How are you?

[22] Don't worry about it.

[23] Ladies and gentlemen, it's my favorite murder.

[24] I'm Karen Kilgareth.

[25] I'm Georgia Hartstark.

[26] And we're here to talk to you about murders.

[27] Hey, guys.

[28] We like to talk about murder.

[29] We're murder nerd.

[30] Turns out a lot of you like to talk about murder.

[31] Turns out it's not that rare or weird.

[32] No. I think it's just that other people don't live in big cities where everyone talks about, you know, there's more people that you can talk about murder with.

[33] I think a lot of people are like the only person they know that likes murder.

[34] Yeah, you can't go to your mom with this shit.

[35] She's going to shake her finger at you no matter what.

[36] Yeah, and your husband's going to get scared of you.

[37] Yeah, he's going to be like, holy shit, I married that.

[38] Yeah, your coworkers are going to be like, something's wrong with her.

[39] She's going to kill me in the bathroom.

[40] I feel like, why are you that into it?

[41] Co -workers are always that girl.

[42] Oh, fuck, yeah.

[43] Um, did you take my yogurt?

[44] I'll murder you.

[45] Like, I will murder you.

[46] I don't think that's interesting because my brother's best friend got murder when he wasn't.

[47] I think that's actually really mean to like death.

[48] Yeah.

[49] Okay.

[50] Well, that's perfect then.

[51] That means I never have to talk to you again.

[52] That's how I've negotiated my life personally.

[53] I test it out.

[54] Scaring away.

[55] Do your eyes go wide?

[56] Oh, then I've now weeded out the week.

[57] Goodbye.

[58] Do you fru your brow or jump up it down and clap and say, I love murder.

[59] That's how you pick your team.

[60] Totally.

[61] That's how we found each other.

[62] Did you already know that Kara Klink loves murder?

[63] I think she told me recently.

[64] She loves it too.

[65] Oh, yeah.

[66] She texted me and was like, I have a murder story I want to tell.

[67] I have hers.

[68] You have that.

[69] And it's amazing.

[70] Do you know that there's like, I've had a, the best compliment is when someone you know, kind of from like your world writes to you and it's like I love your podcast and you're like I don't even know you listen to it yes I have a few friends who are like acquaintances who've done that and they're like I have a story I want to tell you and I'm like I will it should be on the podcast yes I love it it's yeah because there's I I have the I've had the same experience and I kind of want to go like it's so nice that you would even the second I see somebody talking about their podcast I'm like turn off brain like I never pay it Yeah.

[71] Meanwhile, I have the gall to have two.

[72] Right.

[73] Look at us.

[74] I mean, we're just, are we allowed?

[75] Because there's so many other things I'm interested in.

[76] Can we, let's do one more together about something totally different.

[77] A different podcast?

[78] Would it have the same passion, though?

[79] Like what?

[80] Do we have another thing in common?

[81] No. I'll see myself out.

[82] You know what it is?

[83] We could talk about vintage clothes.

[84] Do you like vintage clothes?

[85] Mm -hmm.

[86] Oh, okay.

[87] In two months, we can talk about it a lot.

[88] Does anyone want to hear about fucking shopping in clothes?

[89] Nope.

[90] There's a reason.

[91] What are you going to do?

[92] Describe them.

[93] Yeah, and it had pockets and buttons.

[94] I kind of looked like that one scene from Greece where they were at the dance.

[95] Yeah.

[96] This is why I, because there's only so many vintage clothes, but there's just an infinite amount of murders.

[97] Yeah.

[98] Because everyone's murdering.

[99] God.

[100] Guys, we just did thecracked .com podcast, which was so awesome.

[101] So much fun.

[102] When does that come out?

[103] Shit, he told me, and I don't remember.

[104] Jack, would you remember Jack's last name?

[105] Nope.

[106] God, we're the worst.

[107] We are so self -sacred.

[108] Today's a little bit of a lazy Wednesday.

[109] Yeah.

[110] We hung out last night and went to a drag show.

[111] Oh, my God, Jackie B. That was a great show.

[112] It was so hilarious.

[113] And we told your friends about, why did we start?

[114] telling them that we had a murder podcast.

[115] Who?

[116] You're two friends that were sitting next to us?

[117] I don't know because when people are like, what are you up to?

[118] Like, I don't know what to say.

[119] Yes.

[120] Because everything sounds like bragging.

[121] Well, what am I up to?

[122] I don't know, like this thing.

[123] And it's not that great, but sounds great.

[124] Yeah.

[125] So I just don't know how to answer that question.

[126] Yeah.

[127] Saying you have a podcast is good because it definitely does not sound like a brag.

[128] No. Because it's just like outing yourself as a fucking self -indulgent.

[129] Yeah.

[130] Weirdo.

[131] So, yeah, and it's also a nice way to test the waters.

[132] Like, are you interested in this or no?

[133] Yeah.

[134] And I think everyone is.

[135] I think so.

[136] Well, because that's what we were talking about last night is everyone watches 2020 and 48 hours.

[137] Like, that's the reason they're popular shows.

[138] And even people who don't, like Vince wouldn't put it on, but when it's on, he's, like, dialed in.

[139] Yeah, because it's some good young storytelling.

[140] It is.

[141] So this was from, we had someone talk on the Twitter feed, which made me really happy and, of course, made me laugh.

[142] Again, anytime people are tweet in Yakuza, you tweet in any of the stuff that we can't remember while we're talking, we love it.

[143] We love that we would drive you crazy with not knowing.

[144] Sorry.

[145] It's just who we are.

[146] But it was, if I can't find this, it'll be the worst.

[147] Sorry, now I'm going to be doing reading, talking, where it sounds like I'm not paying attention.

[148] It's okay.

[149] I'll talk over you.

[150] Go to My Fave Murder on Twitter.

[151] That's our Twitter account.

[152] Follow us there.

[153] Of course, you guys already know about the Facebook page.

[154] We have almost 5 ,000 people in that rickin page.

[155] And it's like when I can't sleep at night, I just scroll through it and read all the articles where people are putting up.

[156] It's so good.

[157] I do the exact same thing.

[158] And pretty soon we're going to have T -shirts.

[159] Like in the next week, you're going to be able to pre -order your shirt.

[160] So good.

[161] Which is so exciting.

[162] Did you find it?

[163] Yep.

[164] Oh, good.

[165] No, no, I didn't, but it's, I know I'm close because I remember these.

[166] It was just a woman who said that she had to look up when I was talking about the o -suppressive persons was one.

[167] Oh, yeah.

[168] That we could not think of that phrase when we were talking about Scientology.

[169] But lots of people could think of it and told us, which we love, that there was a woman who looked up the thing that I called like ground hypnosis.

[170] I completely made up the title for it.

[171] It sounded great.

[172] It's for when people.

[173] pilots are in the sky, they can't look at the ground because they'll just instinctually just drive the plane into the ground.

[174] Yeah.

[175] And she said what it was called.

[176] Yep.

[177] I can't find it.

[178] Haddammit.

[179] Edit this part out.

[180] Can we really?

[181] Sorry.

[182] If you want, unless you can find it.

[183] This is my challenge to find it in five seconds.

[184] Five, do, four, three, I mean, It's like, I just retweeted it.

[185] I thought.

[186] but maybe but maybe i've been secretly going in and deleting tweets that you just for fun just for fun here's the here's this is a quote from us i love when people quote us i know because i'm self -centered it's a powerful feeling uh here's the thing i know about skateboarders they're massively chill they don't murder families said karen i love it oh someone said quote worst case scenario he eats the baby I don't remember that was you that was me that was you that you'd never let Albert fish babysit your kid right um by the time you're old you're either completely evil or an American hero oh no wait oppressive persons um someone said you said you're in a cult call your dad that's when I was just letting Scientologists know how it is Oh my gosh, it's the best Fuck it, I can't find this, I'm sorry Let's okay Let me see another quote How about Shelly Miskavage is missing as fuck?

[187] Missing as fuck, girl Pretty great That is a good one I love that I talk like that My mom would hate it All right Oh my God, my father The amount of Fs and S's that I say on this podcast My father would be live it Oh, do you want to talk about our new favorite show?

[188] Sure.

[189] The Affair.

[190] No, you mean the family?

[191] That's what I meant.

[192] I hate the affair.

[193] The affair is a bore, right?

[194] It's a trash heap.

[195] It's not even a bore.

[196] It's like it makes me angry how just vapid and stupid every single person is on it.

[197] And I don't care about you guys.

[198] And you fucking deserve each other.

[199] You have to go on.

[200] I think they're from a while back, but John Levinstein on Twitter was doing, like, basically live tweeting the affair.

[201] And it was literally like, will he finish his book?

[202] We just don't know.

[203] Like, he was pretending that those plot lines were exciting and it was really hilarious.

[204] Oh, I just want to kick that all on the vaginas.

[205] Yeah.

[206] I didn't, I didn't watch it because I don't care if people have affairs or not.

[207] I feel it's none of my business.

[208] But yes, the family.

[209] Oh, my gosh.

[210] So someone on the Facebook group was like, in a comment.

[211] was like, has anyone watched the family?

[212] And I need a new binge watch show.

[213] So I was like, I'll check this out.

[214] Joan Allen?

[215] Yeah.

[216] The guy from Friday Night Lights.

[217] That's super cute.

[218] Yeah.

[219] And Mike Sorensen.

[220] Who's the cute?

[221] Oh, that's, oh, that's what he's from.

[222] The Big Brother.

[223] Yes.

[224] It's from Friday Night Live.

[225] I was wondering.

[226] I couldn't play a Sam.

[227] Gosh, he's cute.

[228] He's a super cute guy that dated the coach's daughter.

[229] Yeah.

[230] Oh, and he, like, ran away and shit.

[231] Yes.

[232] He was very cute.

[233] He's beautiful.

[234] He's so weirdly beautiful.

[235] He's, like, plain and beautiful at the same time.

[236] And he's got that, like, skater.

[237] like bad boy looked to him.

[238] Yeah.

[239] Like you want to fix him.

[240] Yes.

[241] In this, but that's how good an actor is because in Friday Night Lights, he was like the little abandoned boy that was being raised by his grandma and trying to be a good football player, which was like heartbreaking.

[242] You want to take care of this fuck?

[243] Yeah, because he's got those big eyes.

[244] Oh my God.

[245] So here's the plot, which is like my dream plot of anything ever, is a kid goes missing at eight.

[246] Fucking I love kidnappings.

[247] Ten years later, comes home.

[248] Stephen Stainer.

[249] What's he from?

[250] Steven Stain, that's the real life thing that really happened.

[251] Right.

[252] I'm positive.

[253] These are my theories.

[254] I'll just shout out what I think they're basing it on.

[255] Okay.

[256] Because it's a lot of like true to life shit.

[257] Yeah.

[258] The kid comes back.

[259] Is it really the kid or is it not the kid?

[260] Where has he been?

[261] That's the documentary of the imposter.

[262] Yes, exactly.

[263] Does someone know something?

[264] Does someone not know something?

[265] There's like suspicions.

[266] That's the podcast.

[267] Does someone know something?

[268] Sorry.

[269] The, is the cop fucking the dad, yes.

[270] Yes.

[271] That's not a spoiler, because you find that out immediately.

[272] Yeah.

[273] It's so great.

[274] And what I love about it is that it, the biggest bombshell in the show doesn't happen until, like, a few episodes in.

[275] That's her sister?

[276] Oh, my God.

[277] No, they keep, they just keep, I think they did a great job of, like, understanding that these days people need more than just one, like, storyline.

[278] that and folding in things that are fascinating and possibilities.

[279] Like they basically made it the most dramatic possible show.

[280] Because then you want to go back and be like, I watched it from an angle of thinking this was happening and the whole time I didn't know this other thing was happening.

[281] So I want to go back.

[282] You'll understand when you watch it.

[283] I want to go back and see everyone's reaction now that I know they know what's going on.

[284] And the flashbacks are great.

[285] It's all these like present day 10 years ago.

[286] Like who got kidnapped?

[287] Oh my God.

[288] Andrew McCarthy.

[289] Oh, my God.

[290] He plays like the town rapist creep who gets exonerated when the kid comes home because he got tried and convicted for the murder of this kid.

[291] Yeah.

[292] Who, and he is the best creep.

[293] And went to jail as a child molester murderer, which is bad news.

[294] But he is into kids, you know what I mean?

[295] Yeah.

[296] He's got some problems.

[297] Yeah.

[298] He is such a good creep.

[299] Yeah, he really is.

[300] He's got kooky eyes.

[301] Yeah.

[302] I'm happy to see him back in the acting world.

[303] He directed an episode.

[304] Yeah.

[305] The flashbacks are incredible.

[306] And there's nothing I love more than a secret buried room in the woods.

[307] What would you do in there?

[308] How would you get out?

[309] Yeah, and how crazy would you go and how terrible.

[310] Okay, here's my problem with it.

[311] The police officer doesn't know how to police.

[312] The lady?

[313] Yeah.

[314] She is the worst.

[315] She should have been immediately fired after he gets exonerated.

[316] A. Everyone finds out he's fucking the dad immediately taken off the case and you're still on the case like so much of the cop shit is such bullshit I can't she like shoot someone who's unarmed and nothing happens.

[317] But that actress played daughter Maitland in a Bordock Empire and she was so incredible.

[318] You're killing like I'm always like I know that face from somewhere yeah that's what she is.

[319] I had to look her up because I was like I know who that is and it's she has She had credit with me, and I didn't know why.

[320] And then I looked it up and I was like, it's fucking daughter.

[321] I was like, this must be her first role.

[322] I've never seen, you know, I don't know shit.

[323] I just hate it.

[324] I love it all.

[325] It's great, but I have the same problem with this that I did with the killing.

[326] I don't give a fuck if people are running for office.

[327] I don't want to know about their stresses.

[328] I think it's the most boring thing possible.

[329] It makes me crazy.

[330] So it's like, we've got the big speech tonight.

[331] There's nothing more boring than running for office.

[332] And my thing is, too, like, you guys are wealthy.

[333] Just stay home and chill.

[334] Like, in my life.

[335] Yeah, don't power through it by continuing to run for, like, state senate.

[336] Stay home with your, like, if I were the mom and my kid came home 10 years later, I'd be like, we are fucking staying home together.

[337] For at least a week.

[338] At least a week.

[339] And bonding.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Also, we're already rich.

[342] Who wants to be fucking mayor?

[343] I mean, ridiculous.

[344] Don't you know about, like, cooking and hanging out at home and, like, being a good parent and Or that if you go through a major life trauma, you're allowed to stop doing the thing that you're doing for an indeterminate amount of time so that you don't have a nervous breakdown.

[345] Yep.

[346] Yep.

[347] Yeah.

[348] I get it.

[349] There's a couple.

[350] There's a couple flaws.

[351] But overall, it's very entertaining.

[352] The cop part is so huge for me that I almost can't.

[353] I almost can't.

[354] But the sister is played by Allison Hill, who is one of the greatest actresses.

[355] What is she from?

[356] She, yeah, well, Scott Pilgrim.

[357] She was the girl who was the drummer in Scott Pilgrub.

[358] Yeah, she was like, dancing.

[359] But she was on an episode, what was that, in treatment?

[360] Did you ever see that show?

[361] I never got past the first episode, but I know it was supposed to be great.

[362] With Gabriel Byrne, her episode of it is so good that I was like, oh, my God, this actress is so good.

[363] And then I just started seeing her in a bunch of stuff.

[364] I need to go back and watch it.

[365] And the little girl who plays her in the flashbacks, the two of them, I mean, you know when you see flashbacks, you're like, come on.

[366] Or they're like, they hired her because she looks like her, but she's, you're like, they hired her because she looks like her, She's a terrible actress.

[367] Right.

[368] It's like one of the two.

[369] This girl's great.

[370] She's great.

[371] She looks like her.

[372] Well, and also I feel like because Joan Allen plays the mother.

[373] And I feel like Joan Allen is probably in a position where she got to call at least a couple of the shots in this situation of how the show.

[374] How the show was set up.

[375] You get Matt Sorenstein.

[376] You get Allison Pill.

[377] You get that British actor who's in everything in England and is now on this show.

[378] Which one is he?

[379] He was on.

[380] I don't know.

[381] Which one is he in the show?

[382] Oh, the dad.

[383] I knew he had an accent.

[384] Yes.

[385] That was bothering me because it was coming out a little bit.

[386] it.

[387] And it's like, well, fine.

[388] He cannot, he can be from England when he was a kid.

[389] But for some reason, it's like, that bothers me. Well, you know, they always give British actors credit because there's so much better than American actors on the whole.

[390] But oftentimes, you have to have a good ear to be able to do a convincing American accent.

[391] And I think most people are like, of course he can do it.

[392] And then they're just like, well, every once in a while, they'll drop an R or do a weird thing.

[393] And then you get pulled out of it.

[394] I do.

[395] But then I'm like, he can have been from Germany or from fucking England or from like Australia and it does like I know I need to just get out of my head.

[396] Yeah.

[397] But it does take you out of it.

[398] Yeah.

[399] I just love that guy because he has been working consistently for easily 30 years.

[400] He's in everything in England.

[401] That's awesome.

[402] For all my BBC obsessive television watching.

[403] He's just like, oh, he's in every other thing.

[404] Go to Hulu.

[405] You can binge watch the first like 11 episodes.

[406] Also, there was a really good 2020 I just recorded.

[407] That's about David Miskavage's father and that book that guy wrote about him and how the, that guy himself is crooked and it's, I started watching it last night.

[408] I don't know how, but I fell asleep in the middle of the 2020, but it was good.

[409] And David Miscavich, when you see him talk, he is so goddamn crazy.

[410] Oh my God.

[411] It makes so much sense he's the head of a cult like Scientology because he just looks like a goddamn lunatic.

[412] A lunatic narcissist fucking, you know, he looks like one of those, like the kid in your class who was such a little shit and the teachers all loved him and he wore fucking vests.

[413] yeah all the time he's the kind of person that smiles without including his eyes so it's a lot of teeth but then the eyes are like look like they want to murder you hey this is exciting an all new season of only murders in the building is coming to hulu on august 27th steve martin martin short and selina gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives but there's a mystery hanging over everyone who killed saz and were they really after charles why would someone want to kill charles this season murder hits close to home With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[414] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[415] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[416] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[417] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[418] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[419] Goodbye.

[420] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[421] Absolutely.

[422] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[423] Exactly.

[424] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[425] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[426] That's right.

[427] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere, online, in store, on social media, and beyond.

[428] Give your point of sales system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[429] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

[430] So give your point of sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[431] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[432] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[433] Connect with customers in line and online.

[434] Do retail right with Shopify.

[435] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[436] important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today that's shopify .com slash murder goodbye yeah speaking of murder speaking of which what's your favorite this week is it me first I think so what's our theme this week Karen we the theme is let's not do themes anymore because they pan us into a corner and and make us do it all wrong I think when we don't have an idea of what we want to do like let's for the next couple ones, not do a theme.

[437] Let's play fast and loose.

[438] Yeah.

[439] And then, like, if I have one that I want to talk about and you don't have one, I can be like, okay, well, here's the theme that will work with this.

[440] But we could also go into a realm at some point where we assign each other.

[441] Ooh, I like that.

[442] I like an assignment.

[443] I wish you guys could have seen her face.

[444] She would genuinely like that idea.

[445] I lit up.

[446] You already have very big eyes, and they just went like three times bigger.

[447] Are I scary?

[448] A werewolf London.

[449] Is that your murder?

[450] Those London werewolf martyrs.

[451] No, mine is, and interestingly enough, happened in the year 2000.

[452] Every single murder from now on for you was going to have happened in the year 2000.

[453] Shipman didn't really serve the purpose it was supposed to.

[454] So now it's all going to be makeup work.

[455] That's actually how my whole life is.

[456] I fuck up something.

[457] and then I'm constantly making up for it long past the time when anyone's interested.

[458] Putting more effort into it than you would have had to if you had just done it the first time.

[459] Correctly the first time.

[460] I get it.

[461] I get that.

[462] Always.

[463] Guys, hi.

[464] This week, my favorite murder is the murder of a young woman named Shandra Levy.

[465] Hey.

[466] This is a fun one.

[467] This was crazy.

[468] I also.

[469] Clips and turns.

[470] Crazy.

[471] And this is a, I find this.

[472] This is a fascinating.

[473] I just talk total shit about no one cares about when you're running for office.

[474] And this is all about like politics stuff.

[475] Totally.

[476] But it's the part that I actually believe.

[477] I want you can cut straight to if you think a congressman has murdered somebody because I'll believe you.

[478] Oh, always.

[479] Yeah.

[480] So I don't want to know.

[481] I think everyone will.

[482] Yeah, right?

[483] Because talk about power hungry sociopaths.

[484] Well, that's the thing is like, that's the thing of they want it to be someone crazy and huge.

[485] They don't want it to be some fucking.

[486] dipshit who doesn't whose life isn't worth half of this girl's life right they wanted to be some powerful maybe there's like the government behind it dark right something dark she found out a government secret then they had to kit yeah it could just go super crazy and i remembered um because i had a lot you know a lot of big ideas and judgments and what i actually thought and even in remembering it before i did the looked anything up um was like oh yeah i think he really did it and they just couldn't pin it on him and then i remember There's a movie called Absolute Power.

[487] It's a Clint Eastwood movie from 1997 with Gene Hackman.

[488] Do you remember this where he is a cat burglar?

[489] He's like a jewelry thief, and he goes to rob this apartment, and he finds a safe room and that has like a one -way mirror, and he's in there stealing diamonds, and then the people come back, so he has to shut the door and hide.

[490] And he witnesses the president murdering his mistress.

[491] That's cool.

[492] Then he, while he is trying to figure out a way to expose it, the president's whole team, including Judy Davis, and the guy that always plays, that played the president on 24, Dennis, doesn't matter.

[493] You're the one of remembers this issue.

[494] You don't remember it.

[495] You're fucked.

[496] So well, basically, they go about covering it all up.

[497] And it just makes it so believable.

[498] And they start pulling people that could be accused of it, you know, the way that they will do it to clean up a massive thing like that.

[499] Here's my problem with that, though.

[500] If you have a safe room in your house, you probably also have an alarm system set up.

[501] So how do you even get in in the first place?

[502] Oh, I think there's a scene where he's like undoing the alarm system.

[503] Okay, I got it.

[504] Doop do that.

[505] Beepoop boop.

[506] And then it's Clint East would whispering to himself in a dravely voice.

[507] Tiptoeing.

[508] So that's what was in my.

[509] mind and that was this that was three years before this even happened okay um so in uh october of 2000 um shandra levy who was originally from modesto california uh who went to san francisco state she was a bay area girl um she means you're going to get fucking murder that's right that's how we do it um she had a degree in journalism from san francisco state and she went to USC to get her master's in public administration.

[510] So she became, so in October of 2000, she, uh, went to D .C. to become a paid intern, um, for the Federal Bureau of Prisons, a thing I didn't know existed until just today.

[511] Uh, I immediately assumed it was the FBI and kept moving until later on.

[512] They brought it up again.

[513] Then I was like, oh shit, that changes it.

[514] Yeah, Corporation money.

[515] Bureau of Prisons.

[516] How much money do you people make?

[517] Jesus.

[518] Um, so.

[519] So her internship was abruptly terminated in April of 2001 because her academic eligibility was expired in December 2000.

[520] So since she had already completed her master's degree requirements, so she was planning on going back to California in May 2001 for her graduation at USC.

[521] So on May 6th of 2001, Chandra Levy's parents called the D .C. police and say we can't get a hold of our daughter.

[522] she hasn't called us and we can't contact her for five days and that's completely like not normal and we need your help so um they flew out to dc yeah and um you know they start talking to the police um and in interviews with the police her father tells them uh that she's been having an affair with a congressman how does he know that i guess she told her parents oh so which i think is kind of good It made me happy that they knew about her life.

[523] At least she told her best friend and the best friend was like when she was missing or something.

[524] Yeah, maybe said this is what I think you guys need to know.

[525] You guys never keep secrets because then they can't find out who murdered you.

[526] Yeah, that's right.

[527] But then again, don't keep a diary.

[528] There's a lot of conflicting messages on this podcast.

[529] You have to stay with us.

[530] Keep a word document.

[531] The truth will be revealed eventually.

[532] eventually.

[533] We get, you know, we have a plan.

[534] Yeah, there's a long -term five -year plan for this podcast.

[535] So, so Chandra Levy's mother, I mean, father tells the cops, you need to look at Congressman Gary Condon because they've been having an affair.

[536] So on May 10th, the police get a warrant to search her apartment and they find her purse with her ID or credit cards, all are good stuff, two suitcase that are half -packed, her answering machine's full.

[537] There were two messages from Gary conned it on the answering machine.

[538] And when a police sergeant tried to examine her laptop, he inadvertently corrupted the internet search data as he was not a trained technician.

[539] You fucking idiot.

[540] I bet he got in trouble like she should have on the family.

[541] Yeah, I hope he got in trouble because it took them a month to fix it.

[542] There's the year 2000.

[543] So they finally are able to access what her last searches were on that computer, and it was on May 1st, and it was for Amtrak, Southwest Airlines, Baskin Robbins, Gary Condent, a weather report, and then the very last one was at 1224 for the Pierce Clingle Mansion, which is the park office building for Rock Creek Park.

[544] um so and basically another month goes by so this is two and a half months now from when she's reported missing they finally searched this park wow and it's uh which is by her house yeah i think it was they said within four miles um 30 cops searched the park and they don't find anything and then they search it again like a couple weeks later and they don't find anything again they go to talk to gary condent he did not any knowledge of knowing what happened to her and the Levy family is now talking to the press themselves this is how it always goes I remember when this shit broke and it was like fucking heavy it was crazy and the Levy family tells the press they think that Gary Condit has something to do with her disappearance so now it's on like Donkey Kong because we've got a seat of congress is that what you say they're seated like an in place working congressman who's having an affair he's married this girl is uh in her early 20s um and and an unpaid intern or no paid intern sorry wow a paid intern that he's having an affair with uh not the only woman he's having an affair with wow as as is later revealed powerful hungry men so this is a kind of story that at the time this was pre 9 -11 obviously this is pre 24 hour news cycle.

[545] So this was back when, you know, CNN was its own cable channel, but they would be like horse rescued out of a ravine, you know, this plane crash only two p. It was a biplane, only two p. It was like that kind of stuff.

[546] And then when big stuff like this hit, it would go all day at night.

[547] Yeah.

[548] So it was different than it is now that people are used to.

[549] It would just be like, here we are.

[550] All the alarm bells are ringing.

[551] Um, So the D .C. police chief announced on May 22nd, 2002.

[552] So this is, oh, sorry, I was just going to say, in July 2001, Fox News opinion poll of 900 people, 44 % said they believed that Gary Condon had something to do with Chandra Levy's disappearance.

[553] Based on no evidence, right?

[554] Based on nothing.

[555] And 51 % of people said that they thought he acted guilty.

[556] And I think this also had something to do with the fact that, You know, the story broke probably at the end of May, beginning of June.

[557] This is a whole month and nothing's happened.

[558] So now you're just letting people stew and simmer and speculate.

[559] And watch the same fucking news over and over and over.

[560] Like same cover, the same, these beautiful photos of her and this, you know, this fucked up senator.

[561] Yeah.

[562] And like, and just the people want answers.

[563] They want something.

[564] Totally.

[565] So on May 22nd, 2002, the police chief announces that skeletal remains matching Levy's dental records have been discovered by a man walking his dog and looking for turtles in Rock Creek Park.

[566] To two years later?

[567] Yes.

[568] Two years later to the month.

[569] I want to see a picture of the man who was looking for turtles.

[570] I mean, immediately guilty.

[571] Is he guilty or is he a big man child?

[572] that had his whole life ruined because he stumbled upon a dead body.

[573] Great question.

[574] And it was down a hill, down a hillside in like a ravine.

[575] So detectives found bones and personal items scattered but not buried in a forested area along a steep incline, including sports bra, sweatshirt, leggings, tennis shoes.

[576] Man, bitch was going for, not bitch, chish was going for a fucking jog.

[577] In the afternoon.

[578] Yep.

[579] Daylight.

[580] Yeah.

[581] So on June 6th, after the police completed their search, private investigators hired by the Levees found her shinbone with some twisted wire about 25 yards from the other remains.

[582] Wow.

[583] So there's fucking major evidence that is right nearby that these cops do not find.

[584] Wow.

[585] And after two sweeps of the park.

[586] Yes.

[587] I want to see the spot like off of the trail where she was found.

[588] You know what I mean?

[589] Like, is that a busy trail?

[590] Is it not?

[591] I mean, and then logic of when people get rid of bodies is they throw them downhill.

[592] They're not going to carry them uphill.

[593] Right.

[594] So you need to look down every hill.

[595] Yes.

[596] Well, there's all kinds.

[597] I mean, and also you, nowadays they do it and you see it all the time, where if there is a body, they have then, like, taped off, you know, 500 yards around the outside.

[598] Yeah.

[599] You don't, you, the idea that it's 25 yards away.

[600] And that's just like, oh, oh, well.

[601] Well, that just shows that a person isn't, you know, because someone who is experienced in finding human remains would know that animals would have scattered the bones.

[602] Yes, after two years.

[603] And those bones do matter.

[604] It's not like it's like, well, it's a shin bone.

[605] It doesn't matter because it had wire around it.

[606] You can find out where the wire came from.

[607] Oh, no, it totally mattered because the police chief was quoted as saying, it's unacceptable that these items were not located.

[608] Wow.

[609] Which is like, well, that's all well and good.

[610] But now we're after the fact where those PIs weren't hired, which is another thing that points to that thing of like, you've got to be rich to get any justice in this country because if there weren't hired private investigators, that would have never been found.

[611] Yeah.

[612] So the D .C. police claimed that they would have discovered Levy's body earlier, if not for a miscommunication regarding the scope of the search.

[613] commanders had ordered the search within a hundred yards of each road and trail, but searches were focused within 100 yards of roads only, resulting in the body remaining undiscovered for a long period of time.

[614] Makes no fucking sense.

[615] You're searching a park.

[616] You clearly check trails.

[617] That's what people walk on in parks.

[618] It doesn't even make sense.

[619] And also the fact, I mean, this clearly is just totally mishandled because at this point like you're you've you let somebody touch a computer that clearly will have vital information on it that puts you behind a month and then you do a search where you basically kick some leaves around the park and go home and you're like no sorry and in the meantime this dude's entire career is over and like ruined did he sue okay tell me more about um well the other thing too is that there are theories that the body got dumped after the police searched.

[620] So she may not have been there the first time around.

[621] But it seems doubtful if they didn't even search off of trails.

[622] Right.

[623] You know, it didn't seem thorough or like they even kind of knew what to do.

[624] Anyway, so in the autopsy, the coroner found damage to her hyoid bone, which is the U -shaped bone in the back of your neck that supports your tongue.

[625] I never even heard of that before.

[626] Which suggests strangulation.

[627] Okay.

[628] I don't know.

[629] Yeah.

[630] I know there's that little bone.

[631] Yeah.

[632] If that's damaged, it's like you've been squeezed.

[633] But there's no conclusive evidence because the body was outside for two years.

[634] So, of course, then, in September 2001, D .C. police and federal prosecutors contacted by the lawyer of an informant in a jail saying that they know who Levy's killer is.

[635] And he says a man, name, a 20 -year -old illegal immigrant from El Salvador named Ingmar Guandique, I'll just say that's how you pronounce his last name, who he shared a sell with, told him, Condit paid him $25 ,000 to kill Levy.

[636] Whoa.

[637] So the investigators ruled this story out because Guantique was in jail because he'd admitted to assaulting two women in Rock Creek Park.

[638] What?

[639] Uh -huh.

[640] Yeah.

[641] So, um...

[642] Wait, they ruled him out.

[643] Okay.

[644] No, they ruled out Gary Condit paying this guy.

[645] Okay.

[646] Because they'd already had, um, Guandique in jail because he'd already, uh, attacked two women with knives and raped them in that park.

[647] That sounds like a pattern.

[648] It seems patterny to me. Um, so, so, uh, it turned out that Guandique had showed, had failed to show up for work on the day of Levy's disappearance.

[649] And his former landlady recalled his.

[650] his face appeared scratched and bruised at the time.

[651] So he, Guandique, took a polygraph, failed, but he didn't speak English, and the polygraph administering, the polygraph didn't speak Spanish.

[652] Okay.

[653] So, yeah.

[654] Question mark.

[655] And this was the only story in the news, and then 9 -11 happened.

[656] And Gary Condit was like, thank you, Jesus.

[657] Everything's going my way, finally.

[658] But wouldn't it have been great if they had, if, I mean, If A, 9 -11 hadn't happened.

[659] Yeah, that, you know what, now that you bring it up, it would have been great.

[660] Yeah.

[661] But then also, if Gary Conant had a chance for the big story to be that he didn't do it, he would be a fucking, well, he would still have been fucking 20 -year -old girls.

[662] True.

[663] But, you know, you don't go to jail for that.

[664] No, but you're still a sleesball.

[665] I mean, he's a fucking politician.

[666] Yeah.

[667] So basically, this, it became a cold case for years.

[668] Of course, Gary Conant lost his reelection.

[669] and loft left office at the end of his term on January 3rd, 2003.

[670] So in 2005, our buddy, investigative journalist Dominic Dunn, was on Larry King, and he said he believed Gary Condit knew more information about the case than he'd been disclosing.

[671] Dun Dun Dun Dunn, Dunn, Dunn, sorry I had to do that.

[672] I love it.

[673] So Gary Connett filed two lawsuits against Dominic Dunn, forcing him into an undisclosed financial settlement for one, and the other one, which, was a slander case, was eventually dismissed because, quote, the context in which done statements were made demonstrates that they were part of a discussion about speculation in the media and inaccurate media coverage.

[674] So they were actually talking about the case itself and how, you know, how that happens, where like how things become witch hunts.

[675] That makes sense.

[676] The media were criticized for their rush to judgment on this case and sometimes blatantly suggesting that Condit was guilty of murder.

[677] there were reporters that were camped out in front of his Washington apartment who were quoted as saying that they would stay there until he resigned.

[678] So it was a legit witch hunt against him.

[679] That politician thing, like the fact that people, like, I hope for both of us and never in our lives, do we have the experience of having reporters camped outside of our fucking house?

[680] Dude.

[681] Negative or positive.

[682] And also because they can just take any little seed of anything or one person walking by and going, oh, I knew her.

[683] I mean, anything could spin in any direction.

[684] They could go through your trash and find, like, a thing that points to this thing is evidence.

[685] Sure.

[686] Yeah, it's crazy.

[687] And there was, in the summer of 2008, the Washington Post ran a 13 -part series.

[688] I didn't read it.

[689] It's a lot of parts.

[690] It's an unlucky amount of parts.

[691] Which was, quote, a tale of tabloid and mainstream press -packed journalism that helped derail this investigation.

[692] Wow.

[693] So it was basically all about that, how it just was totally tried in the media.

[694] And meanwhile, the cops were kind of like, didn't know necessarily what to do or what was going on and didn't have a lot to go on.

[695] Well, they probably followed along the media as well.

[696] And so it misled them.

[697] For sure.

[698] They got a swayed.

[699] Newsweek magazine stated that the media may have become more skeptical of herd mentality and open to alternative suspects after the Levy case happened.

[700] That basically that changed the way people.

[701] reported and reacted, like the journalism reacted to cases.

[702] And like, wait, in a positive way or a bad way?

[703] Well, I think in a positive way of just being aware that that's what they would do for the story.

[704] You're affecting the actual outcome and the person's going to get caught.

[705] That they basically were like, oh, they were having an affair and implying that he killed her.

[706] So anyway, it was a cold case until 2006.

[707] And then there was a new D .C. police chief, a woman named Kathy Lerner.

[708] I'm assuming, is how you pronounce it.

[709] And she replaced the lead detective on the case with three veteran investigators who had homicide experience.

[710] Yeah.

[711] So who did you assign, who did that original guy assign the first place?

[712] What are you doing?

[713] Also, it made me, reading that made me go, did Gary Condon have some kind of power over that first group of guys to be like, how about you don't, how about you're not very accurate and you're, investigation of this i mean it's just a possibility well this is i want to hear who you think did it because that if he didn't and that's then why would he do that go on so here we go i'm trying to hear i'll try to plow through this no no you're good uh so um in 2007 the editors of the washington post assigned a new team of reporters to re -examine the case and as there was a series of articles published in the summer of 2008 that focused on the failure the police to fully investigate Guadnik's connection to the attacks in Rock Creek Park.

[714] So they had basically just seen that that guy had done that.

[715] When it turned out that that guy's story was this guy did it and Gary Condit paid him to do it and that turned out to be a lie, they were like, oh, right, well, I guess we have no one.

[716] Yeah.

[717] Instead of, oh, the guy that's attacking women and raping women in Rock Creek Park, they don't look at him.

[718] That's insane.

[719] So in September 2008, which I love this because the investigators, it's like, so journalists are the one pushing.

[720] this forward.

[721] They're fucking up, but they're also making good at the same time to different people.

[722] Investigators searched Guadneek's federal prison cell in California, and they found a photo of Chandra Levy that he had saved from a magazine.

[723] So they finally arrested him in March of 2009.

[724] And he was indicted by a grand jury for kidnapping, first -degree murder committed during a kidnapping, attempted first -degree sexual abuse, first -degree murder committed during sexual offense, attempted robbery, first -degree murder committed during a robbery.

[725] And he pled not guilty to everything.

[726] In the trial, Shonda Levy's father testified that he intentionally pointed the investigators to Gary Condit.

[727] He said that he told authorities during the early years of the investigation his daughter would have been too cautious to jog in the woods alone, but he said that he no longer believe that to be true.

[728] So the father, like, sick him.

[729] He, like, fucking pointed the finger.

[730] Wow.

[731] And kind of, by his own admission, but see, here's the thing.

[732] So it's his own admission that he kind of saying he misled the cops.

[733] But at the same, so here's the whole paragraph on it.

[734] He said he also told police that his daughter and Condit had a five -year plan between them to get married.

[735] In retrospect, Robert Levy admitted, I just said whatever came to mind just to point to him as the villain.

[736] Levy added that he had been convinced.

[737] Vince the Condit was guilty until we learned about this character here, referring to Guadneque.

[738] I mean, that makes sense because, like, if you're, like, if you know that your best friend's boyfriend was a fucking abusive, whatever, and she now turns up dead, you can say something like, well, once she told me she was afraid that he was going to get, that he was going to kill her.

[739] Right.

[740] You slip that little thing in there and it makes the case for him.

[741] Yep.

[742] but this that wasn't true yeah that wasn't the case right but it wasn't him that's why you don't do that obviously i mean yeah but it but it makes sense why you would yeah so gary condott when he testified in this trial would not answer the question were you having an affair with chandra levy wouldn't answer the question said it would it would it would uh violate chandra's privacy and his privacy well then the defense of course comes back with a pair of underwear with gary conned its DNA on it and says pretty much have proof because they collected them from a apartment when the cops in its evidence and basically say yeah you did so you don't have to say it because at that point you should just be fucking honest he absolutely should but he's you know I don't I think he whatever um so then the prosecution calls the two women Guadneek raped while they were jogging in Rock Creek Park and one testified that he grabbed her from behind dragged her down a ravine, held the knife against her face and raped her.

[743] Which is, you know, Shandra's remains were found out of her.

[744] Totally.

[745] So anyway, this guy gets found guilty.

[746] And this made me think of you because they said that Gaudhmeek said to Levy's family during the sentencing, I'm sorry for what happened to your daughter, but insisted he was innocent.

[747] And Susan Levy, the mother, said to him, did you really take her life, look me in my eyes and tell me?

[748] Which is your thing of, like, just admit it.

[749] Yeah.

[750] Just admit it.

[751] Um, he was found guilty sentenced to 60 years in prison.

[752] Wow.

[753] So at that point, Condit's lawyer, Bert Fields remarked, it's a complete vindication, but that comes a little late.

[754] Who gives him his career back?

[755] And Condent retired from politics, moved with his wife to Phoenix.

[756] The wife stayed with him, apparently.

[757] If you're a fucking wife of a senator, you've got to be a little bit, ding dong in the head, you know?

[758] Yeah.

[759] You got to, you're, you're playing the big game.

[760] You're not going to just run at the first day.

[761] paid intern I'm sorry this is bigger picture stuff so they moved to Phoenix this is the most depressing paragraph I've ever read off of Wikipedia they moved to Phoenix to manage real estate and open two Baskin -Robbins franchises which have since closed okay but then remember that Baskin -Robbins was one of the things that she searched on her computer uh -huh um what well guess what now they've asked for a retrial for this guy because they're saying everything, all the evidence against this guy does not match up to her murder, which I know I normally, and I'm sure this is just me being tabloiding myself, but he was attacking people and robbing them and one woman he raped, but he wasn't yet a murderer.

[762] So it's not like she was the sixth body.

[763] that they found, you know.

[764] Yeah, but, you know, one person fights a little harder.

[765] True.

[766] You get, you're already, was he already caught for the two rapes when he attacked her?

[767] Yeah, like just a standard escalation.

[768] So, yeah, so don't, the way to not get tried for rape when someone can ID you is to murder them.

[769] To murder them, that's right.

[770] Well, on June 3, 2015, the defense said, a new witness, a neighbor called 911 at 437am on last day, Levy was reported to be alive to report that she heard a blood -curdling scream possibly coming from Levy's apartment.

[771] And why didn't that come into the fucking play?

[772] Right.

[773] And because that's, it's a 911 call.

[774] You can just go look it up.

[775] Yeah.

[776] But they never, the cops didn't find that person.

[777] They didn't look that hard.

[778] So.

[779] Or the person reported it and it got blown off.

[780] So they were like, must not, they must have more information than me. Yeah.

[781] Well, and the thing is.

[782] Um, that kind of maybe leads to the direction of that she wasn't attacked while she was jogging and murdered in that ravine.

[783] She was murdered in her apartment and her body was dumped in that ravine after the cops look.

[784] Sure.

[785] Uh, which would kind of make a little bit more sense.

[786] I mean, who knows?

[787] Who knows?

[788] I just, this is another case of the most obvious answer is usually the correct answer.

[789] Well, there's a rapist in that park.

[790] Yes.

[791] It's most likely him.

[792] Yeah.

[793] But they are, the defense attorneys have requested Gary Condit's bank telephone and credit card records, as well as any records from Mr. Condit's gym from around the time of the disappearance.

[794] And they're looking for, I don't know, but they must know something specific.

[795] Yeah, which is why I was like, huh.

[796] So they're basically going way harder into searching Condit as a sense.

[797] suspect, which I bet you they didn't do, they were trying not to before.

[798] Right.

[799] Right.

[800] As being good DC cops, they're just like, it's the actual.

[801] Yeah.

[802] Congressman.

[803] Is it, is he a congressman or a senator?

[804] Congressman.

[805] Did I say Senator throughout this?

[806] Did I?

[807] Who knows?

[808] Accuracy?

[809] We're not known for it.

[810] Looking for turtles, ladies and gentlemen.

[811] So anyway, this guy's going to get a new trial in on in October of this year.

[812] Man, that poor family.

[813] Yeah, it's pretty terrible.

[814] Oh, and also they have, um, uh, they're asking for notes from law enforcement interviews from former Congressman Richard Army of Texas and John Doolittle of California because they are individuals, Condit said he was meeting with on one of the important days in question.

[815] So they're basically going back over and picking his shit apart to make sure, I think, to make sure.

[816] want the best fucking, who the best witnesses are, are fucking ex -girlfriends.

[817] That's right.

[818] So he's probably got a few of those.

[819] Oh, there was definitely, there was one in that article that was like a basically an air hostess, a stewardess or whatever, that he told not to talk to the cops.

[820] Yeah.

[821] Well, I mean, I guess you would do that.

[822] He had a lot of stuff to be exposed, I think, but.

[823] That's a good one.

[824] That's a cold case.

[825] I would really, really like to know the real story of it.

[826] That's a deeper one than it seems at first.

[827] Because they're opening it back up.

[828] Like something actually may come of it.

[829] That's crazy that they're opening it back up.

[830] I mean, that makes me sad because what if it really was him?

[831] And he gets off.

[832] Yeah.

[833] And then Condent doesn't get tried because they don't have enough evidence.

[834] And so nobody, so this guy spent, you know, six years in prison.

[835] Yeah.

[836] And that's it.

[837] I know.

[838] It's crazy.

[839] I know.

[840] Also, it's that thing of like, there, there, this is also one of the ways affairs can end.

[841] It's not just like, oh, you could blow up your whole life.

[842] Yeah.

[843] You could also get like Shawshank Redemption style railroaded into going to jail.

[844] Because I remember Chandra Levy is just, anytime she would come on the news, I'd just be like, oh, it's that like, it's the dirty girl and the case of the affair.

[845] Mm -hmm.

[846] Like you don't think about, oh, she's a victim or whatever.

[847] It's just like.

[848] Yeah.

[849] I mean, take away that one little piece.

[850] that she's boning a dude who's married.

[851] And it's just this really tragic.

[852] I mean, she's this ambitious, intelligent woman who's starting to make a career for herself.

[853] She makes a bad decision by sleeping with this married man, as people fucking do in D .C., it seems like.

[854] Sure.

[855] She goes for a jog before she goes home to graduate and gets murdered.

[856] It's as simple as that.

[857] Yeah.

[858] It's a bummer, dude.

[859] Or is it?

[860] Or was she there when some weird, she heard something she wasn't supposed to hear because he is a congressman?

[861] Wasn't there a while where they were like, she might have been pregnant and he killed her because she was pregnant, but I don't think she didn't.

[862] Well, maybe they couldn't tell if she was pregnant, but I think they can tell.

[863] That didn't come up here, but there was a very similar story, and I can't remember the woman's name, but it was like a super, it was on forensic files and like a couple of those other ones.

[864] And it was basically the same story, but the girl was, I think she was Irish Catholic.

[865] Do you remember that one?

[866] And she got, they found her body wrapped up in a rug.

[867] And then it turned out to be her boyfriend, who was this really powerful businessman in, I can't remember if it was D .C. or Boston or something.

[868] Did they do a DNA test on the fetus and it matched him?

[869] I think so.

[870] That sounds, I mean, that sounds correct.

[871] What are we even doing right now?

[872] No, it's just like any murder at any, any murder I've ever seen.

[873] We are getting deep.

[874] Remember that girl that had curly hair?

[875] Anyway, that's mine.

[876] that's a good one good job thank you that was fun that was fun that was a wild ride yeah all right my favorite murder yes a seamless favorite murder a sylvia marie lichens this one i hadn't heard about until we started the podcast and i fucking went down a rabbit hole click click click bait on facebook group nice and it's fucking trashed magic.

[877] Get ready because it's depressing.

[878] Okay.

[879] Um, so Sylvia Marie Likens was born January 3rd, 1949, vintage murders.

[880] Love them.

[881] Love it.

[882] She, and she's from Indianapolis.

[883] And essentially, she was tortured to death by Gertrude Banniswuski, Bannisowsky, Banzowsky, Banzuski.

[884] and her children and other people from the neighborhood I know this one horrible so this took place the girl Sylvia died in October 26th, 1965 so she was 16 years old so Likens family moved frequently because her parents were carnival workers the parents had financial difficulties so in 1960 and no teeth probably so in 1965 the father Lester Likens arranged for his daughters his two daughters to board with to board with Gertrude, to live with her.

[885] Gertrude was 37, and she was the mother of a new friend of the two girls named Paula, who was 17.

[886] And she moved in with Gertrude and Paula and Paula's six siblings.

[887] Lester said he didn't pry, quote, didn't want to pry into the conditions of the house, he reported at the trial.

[888] Good trial.

[889] Well done, Lester.

[890] I don't want to pry.

[891] That's how carnies are.

[892] They're not going to stick their nose in your business.

[893] You're sending your kids.

[894] And he encouraged Gertrude to, quote, straighten out his daughters.

[895] Great.

[896] Even from all accounts, these seemed like nice girls, even if they weren't.

[897] And they were paying Gertrude $20 a week to care for her, which I think the equivalent of like $150 now.

[898] She's like, cheap.

[899] Yeah.

[900] So Gertrude described, Gertrude was described as, quote, haggard, underweight, asthmatic, suffering from depression and the stress of several failed marriages.

[901] You got to see this woman, this photo of her, man. She is a fucking salty bitch.

[902] Like, there's definitely a shank in her purse, kind of a person.

[903] And she's a single lady?

[904] Single at this point with, like, I think there was six or seven kids.

[905] Wow.

[906] Aging from, like, 17 down to, like, 18 months.

[907] Jesus.

[908] Yeah.

[909] So she could still get it.

[910] Seven children.

[911] Okay.

[912] I mean, 37.

[913] That's two years older than I am.

[914] And she was a fucking salty old woman.

[915] And like the photos, man, these eyebrows or something else.

[916] Pre -waxing days.

[917] Oh, she just shaved them off and drew them on.

[918] Oh, those are the scary ones.

[919] Yeah, this chick is, I would not want to meet her anywhere.

[920] Even a light alley?

[921] Yeah.

[922] So, she began, so when they moved in, Gertrude started taking her anger out, which apparently there was a lot of it on the Likens Girls.

[923] And they soon focused exclusively on Sylvia.

[924] So, accusing her of petty crimes, the daughter Paula, who was pregnant at the time, kicked lichens in the genitals and accused her of being pregnant and a slut, which she wasn't.

[925] Wow.

[926] Okay, I have to fucking warn everyone that some of this, I'm not going to say all of it, that this torture is like intense and awful.

[927] And there's a photo of this girl and she just looks sweet and normal and it's awful.

[928] so um the lycans was accused by the family that she was spreading rumors about paula and so this provoked stephanie's boyfriend coy hubbard which like man if that's not a fucking petty thief's name i don't know what is um to physically attack lichens so this girl is getting tortured by the mother her daughter all the kids, the local teens, like boyfriends, it's like a hobby for them at this point.

[929] She, Gertrude encouraged the kids and the neighborhood kids to torment lichens.

[930] Some of her stuff I don't want to talk about, but this said that by the time of her death, she had over 100 cigarette cigarettes on her body.

[931] It's really fucking brutal.

[932] And it's in creepy sexual stuff, sadists.

[933] I mean, it's fucking state of stuff.

[934] Sexual stuff for humiliation, not for legitimate sexual reasons.

[935] Right.

[936] You know, to break this poor girl's spirit.

[937] And just because they can, right?

[938] Like, just basically they're all a little bit fucked up and clearly, you know.

[939] And it escalates and it becomes, I feel like it becomes fun for them.

[940] Yeah.

[941] It's not like Stanford Prison Experiment or you have one person that's your prisoner and suddenly it brings out all the, like, you don't see them as a human anymore.

[942] Yeah.

[943] It feels like.

[944] The kid, Paula, once hit her so hard in the face, she broke her own wrist.

[945] Fuck.

[946] This is like, it breaks my heart and it makes me want to become a foster parent so much more because, man, these, some of these, some people's fucking living situations are just insane.

[947] So the sister, little sister attempted to contact the family.

[948] even the sister who killed her sister and she visited the home and learned of the abuse but learned of the abuse but did not call the police or remove her sister from the phone there was a couple people who were like yeah I saw some weird shit but I never called you know I never called the cops I never called anyone I didn't want to pry also that was back when you could like open hand slap other people's kids right like it wasn't that big of a deal to get punched if you were being bad and if an adult said a kid was bad that was the end of the story yeah that's very true yeah so the parents didn't um didn't interfere um let's see she's the girl so she stopped going to school and um she was locked in the cellar fuck so shortly before her death okay this is oh god so shortly before her death gertrude carved the words i am prostitute and proud of it on lichen's abdomen with a heated kneel whoa and a couple other things happened it's fucking so tragic.

[949] I'm sorry if I'm bumming everyone out.

[950] It's so bad right now.

[951] That's what we're here for.

[952] So on October 25th, 1965, the day before she died, Lycans tried to escape.

[953] After overhearing, Gertrude's plan to blindfold her and dump her body in the forest.

[954] But she got caught.

[955] So, on the 26th, after multiple beatings, burnings, and scalding baths, Lycans died of a brain hemorrhage, shock, and malnutrition holy shit.

[956] 16 years old.

[957] And then when she realized she was dead, had Gertrude, like they did this crazy thing where they called the police and Gertrude had forced, had forced Sylvia to write a letter saying, you know, she had had had sex with a bunch of boys and exchanged for money and that they had dragged her away.

[958] And basically they had beaten her and it was there.

[959] They had, like, she made her write a letter saying that this is what happened to her.

[960] So before the police officers left the house, like, okay, that's what happened.

[961] Yeah.

[962] Jenny, the little sister approached them and said, get me out of here and I'll tell you everything.

[963] Oh, shit.

[964] Thank God she finally got some balls.

[965] The whole time, it makes you wonder, like, why didn't someone tell someone, a teacher?

[966] Yeah, but if you have to think, if she's the salty old broad that's like there with all those kids, they were probably like the bad family of the town.

[967] Yeah.

[968] I bet you there wasn't a lot of interaction or people coming in and out of that house.

[969] And it's this thing of like, you, you listened to authority back then.

[970] Yeah.

[971] Someone who was an older, an older person who was in charge was the authority and you didn't question that.

[972] And you didn't, none, these things didn't happen.

[973] Like this would just, if you someone told you this was happening, you'd be like, that's disgusting.

[974] Yeah.

[975] They don't ever say that again.

[976] It's not happening and you probably deserve to get slapped in the face because you were being bad.

[977] Yep.

[978] So during the trial, Gertrude denied being responsible for the death.

[979] She pled not guilty by reason of insanity.

[980] And for the minors who took part in the abuse were also put on trial.

[981] trial.

[982] So Paula, the older daughter, John, the younger son, Richard Hobbs, who was like a family friend and good old Coy Hubbard, who was 15 and doing some insane stuff to her that I don't want to talk about.

[983] In his closing statement, Grotrude's lawyer said, I condemn her for being a murderess, but I say she's not responsible because she's not all here, tapping himself on the, tapping on the head.

[984] She's not all here.

[985] She's not responsible.

[986] That was supposed to be a better voice, but it wasn't really.

[987] I liked it.

[988] It was old -fashioned.

[989] I was trying.

[990] Yeah.

[991] So in May, in May 66, Gertrude was convicted of first -degree murder.

[992] She was spared the death penalty and was sentenced to life in prison.

[993] But of course, she didn't get life in prison.

[994] She was free on parole by 1985, having been a model prisoner.

[995] And she said, the Lord has forgiven me and I have peace inside.

[996] That's nice.

[997] You fucking cut.

[998] Yeah, that's the priority is how you feel.

[999] Yeah, the Lord monster totally forgave you and you have peace that's great Jesus loved what you did to that girl move on with your fucking life but you know who doesn't the girl you killed yeah but luckily she's haunting your basement yeah five years later she died of what I can only hope was painful lung cancer everyone else totally got out of prison and they became teachers no yep and uh yeah the boys were sentenced to two to 21 years and were released in three you guys should everyone should go if you feel like murdering you should because you're just fucking not going to get punished for it at all it bothers me so much i hope that someday in this podcast we can either a solve a murder or be change change sentencing laws can we do that karen yes i think this podcast has just enough influence and span to really get out there well i mean that is so crazy to think that one of those people that tortured a young girl became a teacher to be in charge of young girls and boys that doesn't even make sense it doesn't it boggles the mind and it the thing about all of this shit is that you can't keep convincing yourself that the world is a fair and just place and who's trying to convince themselves people who aren't into true crime oh well that's their problem and they're not listening anyway yeah they don't want to know know, whereas, like, people like us are so aware and so incensed by how fucked up this world is.

[1000] What city did that happen in?

[1001] In Indianapolis, which is like, do people still live there?

[1002] And the Midwest?

[1003] Yeah.

[1004] Also, I wonder if it's that thing of, like, the Midwestern thing of people keeping to themselves.

[1005] Sure.

[1006] Being private and not being nosy is a big thing.

[1007] I mean, the dad didn't want to pry into the where his...

[1008] I want to know the stories, though, like, were they on drugs?

[1009] or were they total, like, gutter drunk alcoholics?

[1010] You don't just give your children away.

[1011] I'm sure they were alcoholics.

[1012] If they worked at a carnival, for God's sake.

[1013] I think it said that he had alcohol problems.

[1014] And then the parents, like, hated each other.

[1015] And I think they divorced.

[1016] And so he was like, take, you know, the sons, there was like three sons in the family and the Likens family, and they got sent to live with grandma.

[1017] But the girls, go fend for yourselves.

[1018] Rough.

[1019] Oh, yeah.

[1020] And were they locked up early?

[1021] Like, why didn't they run away?

[1022] I know.

[1023] That's another thing in my mind is like, you would be so much better off living on the streets.

[1024] Wait, isn't there a movie with Ellen Page about this story?

[1025] I think there is.

[1026] I'm almost positive.

[1027] It came out over five years ago, but I think there is.

[1028] I could see her playing that part.

[1029] But most people didn't talk about it because it's so fucking dark.

[1030] It's so, there's no, there's no silver lining.

[1031] No, it goes straight.

[1032] It goes straight down.

[1033] into hell.

[1034] It's just one hopes that Jenny Likens, a little sister, had an okay life, but could she have?

[1035] Probably not.

[1036] I don't know, unless she's one of those people that, like, became like a victim's rights advocate.

[1037] That's, that happens a lot to people.

[1038] That's true.

[1039] Because that's crazy.

[1040] Also, it was the, it was the mid -60s.

[1041] So this was before there was ever aware, there was awareness about child abuse or anything like that.

[1042] That was, but it was right on the edge.

[1043] Like, what you're describing, if it was 1925, I'd be like, Yeah, okay.

[1044] But it's so much later than that.

[1045] Well, I mean, yeah, look at spankings.

[1046] Spanking someday people are going to be like, that is abuse, straight up abuse.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] But I mean, I feel like up until recently it was like, yeah, that's how you punish your kids.

[1049] Well, and also up until recently they didn't think, what kind of a teacher wants to spank children?

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] Like, that's, that, it needs to turn around where it's like, it's not about these kids' behavioral problems.

[1052] It's about.

[1053] an adult in this position who's signed up to be a teacher, who signed up to be around children, and can't handle themselves around children.

[1054] And reinforcing bad behavior in children and letting them know that the answer to a problem is physical violence.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] And the person who's supposed to be taking care of you loses their mind and will hurt you to teach you a lesson.

[1057] Also just the capacity of human beings to to be total sadists and like if you bring some kids around and go you can beat her up if you want to yes they're going to do it which is disgusting yeah and these are probably all children from you know bad backgrounds as well so they don't have compassion and they weren't shown compassion by their fucking alcoholic parents probably and that's there it's a learned fucking behavior dark so dark it's rough oh Do you want to hear something that might lighten you out?

[1058] Carrick -clink.

[1059] It's not going to lighten it up, but it's definitely going to make you...

[1060] It's just enjoyable.

[1061] Did you already listen?

[1062] It's just enjoyable.

[1063] Well, I was there when she recorded it.

[1064] Oh, cool.

[1065] So our friend Kara Clank.

[1066] hilarious stand -up comic performer.

[1067] I went and did her podcast, which is called Sisters with Carmen Lynch, who's another stand -up comic that I know.

[1068] And at the end of that, she started talking about, how much she loves true crime and then she said but she thought she was going to be a guest and I was like no we don't have guests yeah that's what I said too we don't want anyone but I was like but I want to hear your hometown murder so here's Keraklinck's hometown murder okay so this is not quite a hometown thing but I did go to college an hour and 15 minutes from my hometown in Connecticut and I went to college with a girl whose husband mysteriously disappeared from their honeymoon cruise they were on this cruise together and the I think the saddest part of the story usually when I tell it is that if they hadn't gotten so blacked out balls to the wall wasted this probably never would have happened because they got really drunk they separated they were rumors they were like hanging out with these Czech teenagers or something like that I don't know what they were doing probably just partying with them and they got separated and another girl on the boat took a picture of a huge blood splatter stain on the on the deck of the ship which is on this big date line there's a whole date line report on this and uh and so it was obviously something happened but his body was never recovered they're in the middle of i believe the Caribbean or the Mediterranean like obviously he was shark bait like they probably weren't going to find anything but um she was you know on the talk show circuit on with like Oprah and like Scarborough country and all these shows.

[1069] And I think people found that she did not appear to be a sympathetic enough wife.

[1070] Like she wasn't bawling, crying.

[1071] She wasn't.

[1072] People thought maybe she married him for, you know, it's like everybody's imagination takes off.

[1073] But like, I don't think he had a ton of money to speak of.

[1074] So it wasn't like an insurance killing.

[1075] I don't really actually knowing her.

[1076] I really don't think she had anything to do with this disappearance slash murder.

[1077] But it was, pretty scandalous and I was actually on Dateline when they when they were investigating it I was working at NBC one of my friends worked at Dateline and was like did anybody here go to this college and Ken again I was like oh I went there and they were like do you know this girl whose husband disappeared I was like yeah we played softball together holy shit they really want to interview you on date line I was like okay like do I get to be on TV I'm in like I was all in and then I went on and I just sort of talked generally about her and it was so embarrassed thing because first of all, I thought they were going to do my hair and makeup.

[1078] They don't do that.

[1079] And second of all, they, like, took a bunch of B -roll of me, like, walking downstairs slowly, and they took an old picture of me and my softball team that this girl is in where my eyes are closed and I'm maybe the fattest I've ever been in my entire life.

[1080] And I was like, just don't focus on my face.

[1081] And Dayline was like, oh, we don't focus on your face.

[1082] And they went right to my face and then went to her face.

[1083] So, you know, I wasn't super happy with Dayline's production.

[1084] But it was a really, it's a really crazy sort of unsolved case that is also interesting because his parents, and I believe Jen, the girl he was married to, who I knew, were trying to take on the cruise line because those, I don't know anyone that's been on a cruise, like, there's cameras everywhere, and they acted like they had nothing on tape of like where this guy was or what happened or anything.

[1085] Like, how did this blood flutter stain get like this?

[1086] It was a huge stain on the deck, and it's just very scandalous that they want.

[1087] won't like kind of let this information out because people think they're scared about getting sued or whatever.

[1088] So I know that they made a lifetime movie about it.

[1089] I know there's a dateline about it.

[1090] You can search into it more.

[1091] The date line, if you want to Google, Kara Klank and few clues found in honeymoon disappearance will take you right to the link because it's a very scary Google result for myself.

[1092] Wow.

[1093] I totally know everything.

[1094] I totally know everything she's talking about.

[1095] I've seen the blood stain.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] I've seen the lifetime movie.

[1098] I've seen the lifetime movie.

[1099] Oh shit.

[1100] And then she showed me the clip of the date line that she was on and it's hilarious because it's one of those things where it literally does.

[1101] It's her softball team, like her intramural softball team.

[1102] So they go in close on her and literally her eyes are closed.

[1103] She weighs 40 pounds heavier than she is now.

[1104] And she, it's just like if you showed up to play softball, how you'd look.

[1105] And then it pans over to the girl and the girl's completely, she said the girls was decked out of makeup.

[1106] No matter what sport she was playing or what, full face of makeup always and curled hair.

[1107] The wife has nothing to do with this.

[1108] But, I mean, they got shmammered and then separated.

[1109] What would she?

[1110] Yes.

[1111] How would she make him bleed that much?

[1112] He got in a fight with someone.

[1113] They beat him up.

[1114] They threw him over.

[1115] Yeah, those checked teens on the date line thing I saw, which I don't know if it was the same one or whatever, they completely suspect them of.

[1116] trying to get money out of him or there was something that they did and they were like it's them basically it's totally i mean but she wasn't around like why did they split up that's the weird thing yeah i mean one would think that on their honeymoon they'd stick together but you just never know who knows maybe she was like fuck you i don't want to do coke yeah or she could have been like i need to go get some waffles yeah and then like let me back up who knows uh fuck fuck going on a cruise man you couldn't you couldn't pay me enough to get Ebola on a cruise there's a lot of minuses I mean crazy shit happens and you're like out in international waters like nothing no one can help you that's a huge nope yeah yeah yeah no thanks yes I have my parents met on a cruise my dad was a purser and my mom was a nurse on that's the cutest thing I've ever cruises yeah I didn't know that that is so adorable we're cruise people I and I appreciate families who cruise but, like, being alone with my husband, I wouldn't do that.

[1117] No, we went on for my mom's, I think it was her 60th birthday.

[1118] We went on a cruise, and it was just really boring.

[1119] I mean, it was gorgeous.

[1120] It was to Alaska, so it was gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

[1121] We got to see cool stuff, but you're stuck on a boat.

[1122] With, like, semi -okay, like airplane food?

[1123] Yeah, it was fine.

[1124] Everything was just fine, you know?

[1125] It was weird.

[1126] Pass.

[1127] I mean.

[1128] well if you've got a hometown story we want to know about it we do we're going to do a mini so we keep saying that but we really are going to so please send us yours um so we can so we can talk about it it's my favorite murder at gmail that's right um and look out for the t -shirts they're coming soon and rate review and subscribe please on iTunes for those ratings we're on that comedy chart man Yeah.

[1129] Someone said they saw us in the top 10.

[1130] No way.

[1131] That's what someone said to me. But I didn't look it up because I was like, oh, my God.

[1132] And also then, whatever.

[1133] I'm going to hold that as fact.

[1134] You know what?

[1135] I think we're number one.

[1136] Thank you guys for listening.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] And thank you for your support.

[1139] Your great listeners.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] So much fun.

[1142] Let's, can we, this is our tagline now, right?

[1143] And are you okay with this?

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] Okay.

[1146] So you do your part and I'll do my part.

[1147] All right.

[1148] You guys stay sexy.

[1149] Don't get murdered.

[1150] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1151] A cookie?

[1152] Bye.

[1153] Bye.