157 - Live at the Civic Theatre in San Diego

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Someone gave us red flags yesterday, obviously.

[17] There's nothing more than a flag.

[18] don't step off the carpet don't stop off the carpet oh don't stick to the carpet why is it so satisfying for two hours yes we're gonna do this I'm only on a little bit of acid don't worry don't be worried she's got you she's got you guys it's like how she does it yeah yeah she's never not been on a little bit of acid since I've known her huge pupils always just anime -sized pupils yesterday we walked out with binoculars because apparently you guys can rent them here because it's so fucking cute you guys do have anything in my teeth balcony speaking of your teeth yeah so yesterday I built that in as a segue great job yesterday we met a gal in the meet and greet who's aunt or mom It's, we're debating.

[19] We're fighting about it.

[20] Yes, backstage.

[21] She owns a restaurant in, oh, I just had it.

[22] Something Beach.

[23] Imperial Beach.

[24] Called El Tapatio, and she's like, we want to send you food backstage.

[25] And we're like, here's Vince's phone number.

[26] Give it to us right away.

[27] I don't care if it's not real.

[28] What you say.

[29] And they did.

[30] And it was so good.

[31] And it was very bloated.

[32] Fucking real Mexican food.

[33] God damn it.

[34] I hate to start with a complaint, but when you're on the road.

[35] No, you don't.

[36] And you're in, yeah, I don't at all.

[37] It's very natural for me. It feels best, actually.

[38] Wait, okay.

[39] Fix it.

[40] There you go.

[41] When you're on the road and late night options, you know what I mean?

[42] We finish these shows sometimes.

[43] Then Vince is like, here's the places you can go.

[44] Right.

[45] And it's like, oftentimes Mexican will be a choice in that.

[46] But, like, when you're in Ohio, you're like, first of all, these are Tostito's scoops so I don't know what the fuck you think I'm supposed to believe about your Mexican restaurant.

[47] Right.

[48] So, right?

[49] I feel like you guys have a lot of pressure.

[50] Like, you fucking better have the best Mexican food in California.

[51] And then you do.

[52] So congratulations because Oh, and she wrote she wrote, stay sexy and don't get bloated.

[53] Too late!

[54] And we did, and I've been belching so much backstage.

[55] So much so.

[56] Can I give you guys a hot fashion tip from over in Hollywood, where I'm from.

[57] So if your dress doesn't fit you, there's this really great way to make it fit you, which is bust out the zipper in the back.

[58] Oh.

[59] Yeah.

[60] And then just put a belt over it.

[61] It just belt it.

[62] No one sees it?

[63] Nobody sees you that way.

[64] But you have to stay on a stage the whole time if you're going to wear the dress.

[65] That's right.

[66] You can't mingle.

[67] You have to be real one direction about it.

[68] Good thing, this isn't a twirling podcast.

[69] I don't know.

[70] What would it be?

[71] Oh, it is.

[72] Oh, it is.

[73] And it is.

[74] Where was the city we first got these?

[75] Remember that first time we got this?

[76] Somebody, for real?

[77] Detroit?

[78] Did you give them to us?

[79] Oh, that would be...

[80] I would cry.

[81] I would commit supuku.

[82] Yeah.

[83] Use it in a sentence.

[84] I learn.

[85] I don't just make mistakes and walk away.

[86] I fucking incorporate them into my vocabulary permanently.

[87] It's called shame -based learning.

[88] Let's all do it with me. Oh, is that the new Montessori way of teaching?

[89] Yep.

[90] Great.

[91] You wash a child's feet and then you say, Look at your disgusting feet.

[92] Feet next time.

[93] Oh, my feet will never be clean.

[94] They'll never be clean enough.

[95] How are those shoes?

[96] They're really cute.

[97] Thank you.

[98] That was, they are.

[99] Thank you.

[100] Listen, we're doing ads now on live shows.

[101] So, so, um.

[102] So gross.

[103] Pay less.

[104] You wouldn't believe it.

[105] They're from Modcloth.

[106] They don't add with us anymore anyway, so.

[107] ad with us.

[108] They don't add with us anymore.

[109] No. But I have every color of them because they're so comfortable.

[110] Yeah, they're cute.

[111] A company called Chelsea Crew.

[112] I'm just going to give them a shout out because they've, never mind.

[113] Because you love ads.

[114] You love ads.

[115] Stephen, cut it.

[116] Cut it.

[117] Cut it out.

[118] He's not.

[119] He's red flag.

[120] He's not here.

[121] Red flag.

[122] He's at home with my cats.

[123] Yeah.

[124] As he should be.

[125] As the Lord wants it to be.

[126] Elvis, that's Elvis.

[127] Elvis, the cat lord.

[128] And I feel like he shamed me a little bit because he just posted a photo of Elvis on my cat's Instagram.

[129] I gave him the password.

[130] While I'm gone, he does that.

[131] Sure.

[132] And he posted a cute photo of Elvis sitting on this chair, but the paint, the door that he's sitting in front of is just peeling with paint.

[133] Sure.

[134] So I look really, I mean, it makes me look terrible.

[135] Like, I can't keep a home.

[136] Right.

[137] Which I can't.

[138] I feel like this is how Stephen teaches you lessons about your home.

[139] Mm -hmm.

[140] And good housekeeping.

[141] Shame -based.

[142] Shame -based housekeeping tips.

[143] Instagram -based, shame -based.

[144] That's happened to me, though.

[145] I take pictures of my dogs, like, oh, my God, you're so cute.

[146] And then when I go to look at the picture, there's, like, weird, dark baby handprints on the wall.

[147] You don't own a baby.

[148] Wait a second The ghost baby is in my house Who can't wash his feet But can't wash his feet but can't wash his hands Who held the wall Who bent over and grabbed my wall When I wasn't looking Upside down Get out of there The scariest is when you're like Oh no I didn't I posted that photo and didn't check The what are they called Nightstands to see what I left On that night Red You guys Guys this is my favorite murder The podcast Thanks for coming.

[149] We have a nice Canadian kit cat for the hometown person.

[150] And tucked inside a $500 bill.

[151] But it's Canadian money.

[152] So it's a tunie.

[153] It's a loony.

[154] It's a looney and a two.

[155] There's 500 loonies tucked inside that.

[156] What else?

[157] I don't.

[158] Well, I have pockets in my dress.

[159] Everybody likes to know about that.

[160] Yes.

[161] Right?

[162] When will I learn that I don't have to just hold my microphone in my hand?

[163] I need to get pockets.

[164] Vintage dresses were not made for function or comfortability.

[165] Right.

[166] That wasn't women's concern back then.

[167] That was none of their business.

[168] I have this theory after going to so many vintage shops that tiny, skinny women had no fun in the vintage days because every little teeny tiny extra small dress is in perfect condition, but you can't find any, like, legit mediums because those girls were having so much fun, they ripped their fucking dresses up.

[169] That's right.

[170] They had to throw those away at the end of the night.

[171] You know?

[172] Or the skinny girls fuck their dresses up so much that they don't exist anymore.

[173] They're just like, I'm here to fucking, um, um, um.

[174] Rip, rip, falls off.

[175] And they're like, enjoy.

[176] Yeah.

[177] Enjoy my body.

[178] It'll be $85.

[179] No, that's not it.

[180] Her body?

[181] No. Oh, no. I meant the dress.

[182] What?

[183] Now we're into sex work immediately at the top of the show?

[184] No. Dress work.

[185] Everyone's like, finally.

[186] Dress work, not sex work.

[187] That's right.

[188] Oh, I took an expired allergy pill.

[189] So keep an eye on me. Great.

[190] For the night.

[191] If I do anything.

[192] That sounds like step one towards meth.

[193] Right?

[194] Isn't that the first thing you buy?

[195] I snorted it Oh, good No, I did it Oh, here's a funny anecdote From when we drove up We're so excited to be kicking off Our 2019 Spring Tour here in San Diego So cool So we, it's also exciting Because we got to drive down It's not really like being on tour Because we're like, okay, we'll leave And then, oh, look, now we're here, how wonderful We got to bring our full -size hair sprays and shampoos because we didn't have to, like...

[196] I brought coats.

[197] I brought jackets.

[198] I brought...

[199] And on the way, we stopped it in and out to eat.

[200] As you do.

[201] Because we love Christ.

[202] And...

[203] And we want it on our cups that we love him.

[204] I won't drink out of anything else.

[205] Spread the word...

[206] Spread the word in tiny font at the bottom of a paper cup.

[207] You got to trick people...

[208] Yeah.

[209] that's like you're not even getting it's your cup but then that message is supposed to be for someone with like the best vision in the world sitting across from you John 316 what's this all about I'm going to look that up so anyway oh yeah we ate we worshipped and after we were about to get into the car this is embarrassing and the best kind of anecdote and you guys know I think we've talked about this on the show before that Georgia my favorite comedy that Georgia does, I like to think just for me, is she likes to do fun body surprises.

[210] I'll call it fun body surprises.

[211] What's really fun is that when you dress like this, you can get away with a lot more.

[212] Yeah.

[213] So it's funny when you fart and you're wearing a dress like this.

[214] Yeah.

[215] Just like that, you fart and go like that at the same time and it's funny and fun and surprising and also a little bit violent.

[216] A little off -putting.

[217] I also, I've told the story, but when we were in New York a couple months ago, I went down to get something, I left something in her hotel room.

[218] So I went down to get it, and I knocked on her door, and then she just threw the door open, she was totally naked, to just like, really big eyes.

[219] Naked's funny.

[220] It's hilarious and shocking.

[221] So, we're in this bathroom.

[222] We go in, I go into the stall first.

[223] She's washing her hands before you pee?

[224] I didn't pee.

[225] I just wanted to get all the onion smell off my fingers from the burger.

[226] That's an important part of the story.

[227] It's key.

[228] And also that they were very oddly shaped stalls.

[229] So the stall I went into, and I did check to make sure no one who had extra needs needed it.

[230] No one else was there.

[231] Because it was the big one that I like to treat myself to every once in a while.

[232] When I feel like really stretching out.

[233] in a public bathroom.

[234] So I go into that one.

[235] But what Georgia doesn't realize is there is a, it's not one huge stall.

[236] There's also a very strangely narrow second stall next to my stall.

[237] Guess what?

[238] Someone's in it.

[239] Guess what else?

[240] I didn't know that.

[241] So then I hear her.

[242] I think I went like, hey, guess I think I. You did a little, guess what?

[243] Guess what?

[244] Yeah, like a guess what, Karen.

[245] That's what I hear.

[246] In the stall.

[247] So.

[248] But then...

[249] Who am I?

[250] It's the best.

[251] It means the world to me that you're trying to entertain me. It really does.

[252] It's what I appreciate it.

[253] Then I hear some lady shuffling around in the narrow stall.

[254] And I hear, all I hear is Georgia go, is someone in here?

[255] And then at that moment, Karen opens her stall as she's coming out and just has this gleeful look while she's nodding her head at me. is uh -huh and it's the best thing ever she fucking paper tells off her hands and nope's out of there so I'm washing my hands like almost crying laughing and then shuffles comes out of her stall I'm the only one there she thinks I did it so that was like an onion it was like a six layer joke that you did on me where at first it was like fun and funny then it was like I got to laugh at you and then bazinga.

[256] Then I washed my hands of that onion and fucking later day and out of there.

[257] She said no onions for me. This allergy medication is already not working, so that's great.

[258] You feel your nose dripping.

[259] I'm going to let it go.

[260] Do you want to sit down?

[261] Let's do it.

[262] These gorgeous chairs that we stained earlier today.

[263] We're actually taking them home.

[264] It's why we drove here.

[265] We actually drove a U -Haul, just for these to take home our chairs.

[266] Oh.

[267] God, they're good.

[268] Oh, my goodness.

[269] You know what's the worst is when the chairs have sides, as if the chair is saying, you have to fit in here.

[270] No, I fucking don't have to fit in there.

[271] We broke the sides off these chairs.

[272] We broke the sides.

[273] Stained it.

[274] And we were like, let's be a lot shorter than the table.

[275] Yeah, that would be fun.

[276] Let's do like a kind of funny.

[277] Kids show style set up.

[278] You know, it'd look really good, as if we like teeny, tiny, teeny.

[279] And here we are.

[280] Here's the Kit Kat.

[281] We forgot to do this last night.

[282] Oh, yeah.

[283] Very quickly, we should just explain to all the poor, poor people who have never listened to this podcast and don't know what the fuck is going on right now.

[284] Hi.

[285] Hi.

[286] Hi.

[287] They came for the farting jokes, but it turns out.

[288] Like, really?

[289] so you guys love farting and lube.

[290] Well, I guess I've learned everything I need to know.

[291] We're more than that.

[292] This is a true crime comedy podcast.

[293] There's a very strange combination, and it makes some people feel uncomfortable because, of course, true crime involves all the worst things that happen to humanity.

[294] It's all horrible stories, tragedy, sadness, loss.

[295] We talk about that.

[296] some are here for that yeah no shame also we make jokes to each other but we're not laughing at the loss and the sadness and the tragedy that's not what we're like we are just talking to each other and trying it's a coping mechanism it's how we get through it it's our personalities and so so thank you I know it's shocking that the girl who farts as a joke also likes to talk about also likes true crime so much so we just We always like to preface it like that.

[297] So just to say, if you're the kind of person that finds that very offensive, then you can go ahead and get the fuck out right now.

[298] Because you're not going to like it.

[299] You're not going to like it, Aunt Carol.

[300] Oh, my sweet little cousin is here tonight, too.

[301] She's actually in law school here in San Diego.

[302] Law student.

[303] Law student.

[304] Bail me out one day.

[305] She'll be rich and a lawyer, and I'll be like, Come pick me up, Savannah.

[306] Oh, no. Oh, no. My bow fell off.

[307] The woman who gave us these, I was like, I love a flag so much.

[308] Thank you so much.

[309] I love that you sat at home making this.

[310] And she goes, are you kidding?

[311] I went to Party City.

[312] I was like.

[313] I think she even said 69 cents at Party City.

[314] And look, there's a tag on it still.

[315] Yeah, I'm sure.

[316] She was not lying.

[317] Hey, this is exciting.

[318] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[319] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[320] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[321] Who killed Saz?

[322] And were they really after Charles?

[323] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[324] This season, murder hits close to home.

[325] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[326] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[327] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists around.

[328] eyes.

[329] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll.

[330] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Meryl Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[331] Only Martyrs in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[332] Goodbye.

[333] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[334] Absolutely.

[335] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[336] Exactly.

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[350] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[351] Goodbye.

[352] Okay, I think I'm first.

[353] You are first.

[354] Thank you.

[355] Yesterday was light and fun and flippy and airy, you know.

[356] Sure.

[357] And tonight is not going to be that right now.

[358] See how happy they are.

[359] I spent, it's one of those were like around, oops, sorry, 3 .30 this afternoon I thought, fuck, what am I doing?

[360] I need to find a different murder, went through all these things, kidnapping this, that couldn't find anything else.

[361] I'm like, I'm just going to fucking do it.

[362] and I'm going first so then you can pick up you can be funny at the end Okay, good I'll be funny with my murder All of this to say that I am doing the Torrey Pines Beach murders tonight I've been following this for quite some time because it's fucking fascinating and fucked up Let's get into it Yes, shall we?

[363] Hey Karen, Tori Pines Beach and State Park Let me tell you about it Please do It's one of the most visited places in San Diego Congratulations, everybody.

[364] It has 2 ,000 acres, a beautiful coastal reserve where people can hike, surf or swim.

[365] It's an idyllic paradise, some would say.

[366] But over the past 40 years, it became a site for two of San Diego's most brutal murders.

[367] I love...

[368] I just, the girl...

[369] Okay, here we go.

[370] So, second week of August, 1978, here we are.

[371] Barbara Nantes, her parents were going out of town for the weekend and Barb's father pulls her boyfriend who's this like 17 -year -old hot fucking surfer dude who's like one of the surfer dudes.

[372] They're all hot.

[373] Show me an ugly surfer.

[374] I would love to see one.

[375] Truly.

[376] I've never once seen one.

[377] But he's like a cool one and they've been dating for nine months.

[378] They're in love.

[379] He said the moment he saw her.

[380] He just fell in love with her.

[381] And dad pulls her aside.

[382] Barbara's 15 and he says, fucking keep my daughter safe while I'm gone.

[383] And Jim's name, his name's Jim.

[384] He's like, you got it.

[385] We're staying put.

[386] But teenagers are fucking assholes.

[387] As we all know, we've all been them before.

[388] And so Barbara was this beautiful cheerleader high school and her family described her as popular, funny, outspoken, more than just a pretty face.

[389] Her mom called her a wonderful pain in the ass.

[390] Which I feel like my mom would call me. that too.

[391] Oh, wait.

[392] That makes me want to cry.

[393] Yeah.

[394] Okay.

[395] Um, and so as teenagers are dicks, almost as soon as her parents left, they were like, goodbye.

[396] Goodbye.

[397] And the Jim and Barb hopped into a car with another couple, and they drove to Torrey Beach, Torrey Pine Beach and then for a party, and then around 9 .30 that night, the four of them were like, let's get the fuck out of here.

[398] We're teenagers.

[399] We want to make out.

[400] And so the couple they were with took the station wagon that they had come in, and Barb and Jim were like, Let's go sleep on the beach.

[401] And so they zift their fucking sleeping bags together and fell asleep in each other's arms.

[402] Oh, I know.

[403] Let me show you a picture.

[404] Barbara before I tell you the worst shit ever.

[405] Sorry, what year is this?

[406] 78.

[407] Oh, wow.

[408] Gorgeous.

[409] Amazing hair.

[410] Yes.

[411] So, okay, the next morning, Jim wakes up.

[412] He's cold and he's wet and alone.

[413] He realizes that the wetness is blood.

[414] he had been knocked unconscious he's disoriented he feels his way along the fence gets to the car and like wraps on the window and his friend said he saw him and the only way he recognized him was because of his like white hair his like blonde surfer hair his uh he he says go look for Barbara this guy runs down he finds her lifeless body by lifeguard Tower 7 they call 911 when they get there Jim was rushed to the hospital, but Barbara's dead.

[415] She had severe head wounds, and she had also been raped.

[416] So Jim had been savagely beaten with a rock and a log from a fire pit.

[417] He had brain trauma and was in a coma for days, but he survived.

[418] Wow.

[419] And they police briefly investigated him as a suspect, but then they're like, I don't think he did it.

[420] They have to.

[421] Yeah.

[422] I mean, that's what they have to do.

[423] Right.

[424] And police don't find any promising leads in the next couple of months.

[425] There's a reward offered all this crazy shit, but nothing happens and it runs cold, the case.

[426] Six years later, in the summer of 1984, Claire Hoff, six years later, she's 14.

[427] She's into hard rock.

[428] She's like a free spirit, but she's not a crazy rebel.

[429] She's just really warm and creative, gregarious.

[430] Her friend Kim said that she, in a field of sunflower, she was an orchid.

[431] and so Claire was in San Diego for the summer visiting her grandparents who lived by the Torrey Beach Torrey Pine Beach and Claire was from Rhode Island she came out with her brother she brought her friend Kim they hung out they had the best time Kim was going to go home the night before and Kim and Claire went to the beach at night to just hang out and smoke secret cigarettes and Kim her friend who was about to leave was like started having a panic attack the minute they got down there and was so freaked out by being at the beach in the dark because she was like we don't know anyone could be watching us and we don't know so she made Claire take her home and then she yelled at Claire and made her promise when she left she wouldn't go out there alone again so basically that girl was having some psychic vibes basically listen to that instinct please listen to your friends when you have bad feelings of open space you could be right smoke a cigarette out your bedroom window Fucking go to a very well -lit Denny's and smoke right at the front door.

[432] Who gives a shit?

[433] They can't do shit to you.

[434] Remember when you used to smoke as a teenager in Denny's?

[435] Inside.

[436] They'd say to you, smoking or non.

[437] Smoking or non.

[438] So you're eating a waffle here and then someone's just fucking got a Capri light right here.

[439] It's really skinny ones.

[440] Remember Capri's?

[441] The best.

[442] What a life.

[443] You just dipped your grilled cheese and ketchup.

[444] Yep.

[445] And ashes.

[446] Okay, so let me show you Claire before.

[447] Look at her.

[448] Look at her amazing hair.

[449] Yeah.

[450] How cute she is.

[451] They both look like they have this spark in their eyes that they're like up for fun.

[452] They also both have that San Diego natural girl thing that I'm very jealous of.

[453] Is that why last night when the hometown girl came on stage and she said she was from somewhere and she goes, it's basically the petalum of San Diego.

[454] And Karen got angry.

[455] it was a how dare you moment and I can I tell this yes and then usually we'll go like where you're from and she'll say where she's from it's the petaluma of San Diego and she turns to Karen and normally one of us will go so what's your hometown?

[456] So what's your hometown?

[457] She turns to Karen and Karen just stared at her.

[458] Or like a beat too long and I was like so what's your hometown?

[459] Yeah she wasn't even facing you and you had to ask the question.

[460] It was super weird because I It was just one of those moments.

[461] I try to be a fucking professional, but sometimes it's overwhelming to be on this stage.

[462] And I just had like an interior moment essentially where I was just like, I bet it's not like petaloma.

[463] You asked her about pets, animal.

[464] You said, are they animals in everyone's backyard?

[465] She's like, yeah, there's a goat.

[466] My neighbors.

[467] Oh, many.

[468] I just fucking iced this girl who couldn't have been nicer Delaney.

[469] Delaney, if you're here tonight.

[470] You can't, I'm a fucking, you don't know what I'm going to do next.

[471] It's like, you're trying to be nice and say your town's like my town.

[472] I just fucking shut down.

[473] I shut you down.

[474] It's a miracle.

[475] You kept talking to me after meeting me with the first day.

[476] You never offended me by saying that you thought you knew where I was from.

[477] That's the ultimate insult to me. Phew.

[478] Yeah.

[479] I would never say such a thing.

[480] I would never compare my town to your town.

[481] Irvine is not like Petaluma.

[482] It would be cool if I actually went to Delaney's town and walked in, it's like exactly like Petaluma or I'm like, wait, is that my old house?

[483] What if there's a sign that says the Petaluma of San Diego?

[484] And I'm like, dear Delaney, I owe you a thousand apologies.

[485] And then the Karen of that, I could keep going.

[486] The carrot of that town comes.

[487] I don't like you either.

[488] And I'm like, I don't like you either.

[489] Can we figure this out so we can have a better life?

[490] I'd love to like you.

[491] She's just got an amazing tan, though.

[492] You know it.

[493] Really?

[494] Like really even skin tone.

[495] Oh, yeah.

[496] San Diego.

[497] Fuck that, Karen.

[498] It's not fair.

[499] See, that's the comedy part.

[500] See?

[501] Now I'm going to get back into the...

[502] This is called stalling.

[503] We're going back to the bad part.

[504] Now it's going to get super fucking awful.

[505] Here we go.

[506] Here we go.

[507] Okay.

[508] On the, um, uh, unfortunately Claire broke her promise to Kim about not going.

[509] You knew she was going to.

[510] Yeah.

[511] On August 24th, 1984, Claire's body was discovered by a beachcomer near the bridge and lifeguard tower of tower five.

[512] Remember, um, Barb had been at seven.

[513] And, uh, it's a few hundred yards from where Barbara had been killed.

[514] And like Barbara, Claire had been beaten and, strangled and there was other insane links between the two of them, but they determined that Claire hadn't been raped.

[515] So for decades after both cases, after the cases are cold, but detectives and FBI profilers, they kept sporadically investigating them.

[516] Nothing ever surfaces.

[517] They thought that the cases were obviously connected because there were so many similarities in them.

[518] But the thing is, the fucking parents of both girls of Claire and Barbara didn't know.

[519] about each other.

[520] Because it was six years apart.

[521] So they didn't even know that that had happened on the beach.

[522] Like, there was no connection, which is kind of sad.

[523] You think they could have bonded somehow or, you know, been there for each other, whatever.

[524] So in that, they didn't find out until 2008 when the San Diego Police Cold Case Unit posted the cases on its website saying that they were connected.

[525] And, you know, the families were like, what the fuck?

[526] Probably.

[527] That's editorializing.

[528] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[529] She doesn't know what the family said.

[530] I bet you, like, one distant cousin said, yeah, someone did.

[531] So, police don't, but even though they posted in 2008 trying to get answers, police don't find any, don't get any information or breaks until four years later in 2012.

[532] When police use a new DNA fancy thing, you know, it's probably already dated.

[533] And they get a hit on the DNA taken from Claire Hoff, who was the second victim.

[534] So a blood sample found on her clothing was a DNA match for a 62 -year -old man named Ronald Tatro.

[535] He had been 40 years old at the time of Claire's murder and on parole in San Diego after having spent seven years in prison on a violent first -degree rape conviction in Hot Springs, Arkansas.

[536] I mean, one of these?

[537] Maybe put one of these on the file?

[538] Yeah, there's not enough.

[539] So this guy does stuff like this, you might want to.

[540] Keep an eye out.

[541] In 1985, a year after Claire's murder, this dude had been arrested and later convicted for attempted rape after trying to kidnap a 16 -year -old girl in La Mesa, he fucking tried to subdue her with a stun gun, but she fucking escaped.

[542] Yes.

[543] Did she escape, like, had he hit her with the son?

[544] I don't know.

[545] He said he tried to subdue her with a stun gun, and she got, she got, she got, away and fucking, you know.

[546] Please take his self -defense class the second you get a chance.

[547] Another thing that just popped into my head.

[548] I'll tell you while you're all here.

[549] Go ahead and do that for yourself.

[550] We need to do that.

[551] Yeah, we actually need to do it too.

[552] Stephen, make a noite.

[553] Stephen, start teaching a self -defense class.

[554] And then we'll all show up to it.

[555] Beat the shit out of you.

[556] Can you imagine if Steven's how to...

[557] It turns out that Stephen can kill with his hands.

[558] Or his mustache?

[559] All right.

[560] What a straight razor out of Stephen's mustache.

[561] In 1985.

[562] Okay, that happened.

[563] So he gets locked back up, this dude, Ronald.

[564] But the DNA analysis of Claire's clothing that brought up this fucking psychopath also turned up a hit of a second man. So traces of DNA from the sperm of a sperm second man that's how that's what they hit the DNA on despite the fact that at the time no sperm had been found and they said that she hadn't been raped remember then suddenly this is okay the second I'm trying to build up but I'm not great at it um when the second DNA profile is logged into the police department system to see if they get a match they get and hit to an employee of the police department huh yes there's your scene there's where we start that's like the person the DNA person And it's like, do, do, do, just another day of fighting crew.

[565] Holy fucking shit.

[566] He's right behind me. He's right behind me. Just like immediately pouring sweat.

[567] Oh, no. Let me show you the...

[568] Trying to make a phone call.

[569] Get him.

[570] He's right behind me. This is the fucking piece of shit.

[571] There's some website that's like, who would play all these people in a movie?

[572] And he's the guy, I bet you can say it because I'm not going to remember his name, who's always the scary guy and everything.

[573] A Michael Shannon?

[574] Yes.

[575] Yeah.

[576] You know why?

[577] It's my website.

[578] No, just kidding.

[579] It's not.

[580] It's not.

[581] Michael fucking Shannon.

[582] Yeah, he's got a real, it's the Shannon jaw.

[583] Yeah.

[584] It's like, is this guy coming at me jaw first?

[585] Oh no, that's just the way his head shaped.

[586] And Hollywood's like, there's no other guy that could play this role.

[587] Truly, it's great.

[588] Yeah.

[589] He's incredible.

[590] Yeah.

[591] Although that's sex scene in the show.

[592] shape of water where he fucks his wife really fast is upsetting it's upsetting I forgot about that it was I was like I already didn't like the fish and now this like what do I get in this movie yeah also the romance between the girl and the fish happened so fast there was no build there was no sexual tension there was because he's not a human because it's a fucking cre - okay oh oh I didn't think about that this is the podcast now we're on the podcast how did this get made Just a quick, you know, like, he just runs his fin down her arm while she's...

[593] I'm just saying, I want to see the build.

[594] No, I'm coming.

[595] I am there with you.

[596] Okay.

[597] All right.

[598] Let's get back to the fucking employee.

[599] Yeah.

[600] Who is this employee?

[601] It's a man named Kevin Brown.

[602] He's a 67 -year -old, and he had been a criminologist for the San Diego Police Department from 2008.

[603] No, no, no. No, no. Yep.

[604] There was a two in there, Georgia.

[605] I told you.

[606] Don't you worry.

[607] From 1982 to 2002.

[608] So 20 fucking years he had been on what they called Criminalist Row.

[609] He's a criminalist.

[610] Yeah, congratulations.

[611] Oh, thank you for your hard work.

[612] Yes, thank.

[613] Keep it up.

[614] Yeah, unless you're the person behind the person who.

[615] Unless you do shit like this guy.

[616] Okay.

[617] So despite, so this dude, Kevin Brown had an alibi.

[618] It's, so it's 2014, so he's retired already.

[619] and he had an alibi for in 1978 he was a college student living in Sacramento more than 500 miles away Really?

[620] And they could never They were like we're going to find a connection like maybe these two were buddies or like drinking buddies or something and the investigators couldn't find a connection between the two Yeah because he's a criminologist Right so they're like they think that either way they think that these two dudes got together and were murdering women together.

[621] Really?

[622] Is that what it's going to be?

[623] Are you fucking kidding me?

[624] Not fucking kidding you.

[625] Listen, as we say, look, it gets so much worse.

[626] It gets, okay, here we go.

[627] It gets so much worse.

[628] Ready?

[629] Yeah.

[630] So, okay, so they think that the two of them had done it together, but they can't place them together.

[631] He's in fucking Sacramento, learning how to be a criminologist.

[632] I'm sure he doesn't have time to drive to San Diego to hang out with the criminal underworld.

[633] But, so as for their long -held belief that Barbara and Claire had been killed by the same person, they had to let go of that theory because in 1978, when Barbara was murdered, this guy fucking scary eyes.

[634] Kevin Brown?

[635] Uh -huh.

[636] No, no, no, not Kevin Brown, the criminologist.

[637] Jerry Brown, the governor.

[638] No. No. Allegedly.

[639] Sorry.

[640] Ronald Tatchez.

[641] fucking Michael Shannon.

[642] So he had actually, in 1978 when Barbara was killed, had been in prison.

[643] So he definitely killed Claire based on DNA, and he definitely didn't kill Barbara.

[644] So they weren't even fucking related, even though there were all these crazy things in common.

[645] And so unfortunately, at this point, okay, so Claire's case is officially reopened, and they're going to try to see how these two men killed Claire together.

[646] Wow.

[647] Of course, Kevin Brown is like, Hi, I've never met Claire, and they went down at, um, oh, they, he said he's never met her.

[648] They tried to check down Ronald Tatro.

[649] He had fucking died in 2011 and in Tennessee.

[650] He had drawn in a boating accident, but he had put, like, his wallet on his seat.

[651] He'd taken his glasses off.

[652] He had, like, looked like he prepared to go in the water.

[653] Uh -huh.

[654] They think that he killed himself on purpose.

[655] Oh, the scary Michael Shannon.

[656] Is this making sense?

[657] Yes.

[658] No, tell me. How am I not?

[659] Just saying the words, killed yourself on purpose, is the thing I should not be laughing at.

[660] Here we go.

[661] Drowned on purpose.

[662] Okay.

[663] Okay.

[664] I have a theory, I have a theory, but I don't want to, I don't want to.

[665] Well, let me tell you this little last part.

[666] Okay.

[667] The day he drowned was the anniversary of Claire Hoff's death.

[668] Okay.

[669] Not a coincidence.

[670] No. So, okay.

[671] So there's, so about Kevin Brown, the reported a conference.

[672] There's rumors that when Kevin was a criminologist working on criminologist row, as they say, in the 80s, like he was kind of a swinging dude, he'd like to go to strip clubs.

[673] It was a very 80s mustache time.

[674] They moved like this a lot.

[675] Right into the strip club, hey, naked ladies, check out this mustache.

[676] Yeah.

[677] So he's what today we would call problematic.

[678] Got it.

[679] in the way he spoke to his co -worker's email and otherwise.

[680] In the 80s, they called cool.

[681] A swinging dude.

[682] So it's shit like...

[683] It creeped you out all the time.

[684] But it's like, okay, so...

[685] Okay, so people who think he did it will bring all that stuff out and be like, he did this, he did that.

[686] This is what he was like.

[687] People who don't think he did it, like me, don't think this stuff is relevant.

[688] Oh.

[689] We think, of course, that Kevin's case is one of cross -contamination because he worked in the fucking medical or the DNA Club.

[690] Criminalist Roe.

[691] Sure.

[692] Well, let's talk about that.

[693] In the 80s, of course, everything was worse.

[694] The hair, the eye shadow, the murder.

[695] Right.

[696] As well as the procedures to prevent DNA cross -contamination.

[697] Oh, right.

[698] Those were non -existent.

[699] It was a mosquito net that they would put around someone's desk.

[700] Essentially, that would have been great.

[701] It would have been better.

[702] Really?

[703] According to the former supervising criminalist, Brown worked, Kevin worked in the same room where Claire Hoff's evidence had been analyzed way back when she was killed in 84 when he still worked there.

[704] And the space of the office was about the size of a two -car garage.

[705] Evidence swabs were sometimes dried in the open air, like fucking laundry.

[706] And they were always placed next to a sandwich.

[707] Yeah.

[708] it was the rule wearing gloves was up to the examiner whether they wanted to do it or not sure why not take your pick we have a low budget on gloves so use them sparingly please don't waste these rubber gloves you guys and don't worry about switching gloves between cases when you're fucking around oh not fucking kidding seriously wow they didn't they didn't always wear gloves and when they did they didn't change them often okay so you're really upset about that I am yeah well it's disgusting.

[709] It is.

[710] So he worked near the criminalist who did the DNA test or the testing on Claire's case.

[711] Okay, here's the fun part.

[712] At the time of Claire Hoff's murder, it was normal for criminals to use their own fluids, including seminal fluid, and bring it to the lab and use it as a control to make sure the chemicals detected, or working correctly.

[713] Hey, Kevin, you mind bringing in a swab of your dick.

[714] Could you do me a favor?

[715] I don't have a dick.

[716] So could you bring in like two dick swabs?

[717] And just a touch of your semen would be plenty.

[718] How about that?

[719] How about it?

[720] But here in 2014, when his fucking DNA gets pinged, the investigators were like, that can't be it.

[721] He hung out with this guy, Ronald, and they murdered Claire together.

[722] Oh.

[723] Mm -hmm.

[724] Is this making sense?

[725] It is absolutely, but you tricked me, and I like it.

[726] Okay.

[727] Yeah, I fell for it entirely.

[728] Wingeroo.

[729] He's not standing behind you, and if he is, it's okay because he's not a murderer.

[730] He's just putting his fluids places.

[731] There's a different issue, but it's not as bad.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And all the male criminalists in the labs did it.

[734] It was a regular thing to be like, they needed a, you know, what's the one that's like, this is the...

[735] Asshole?

[736] You know.

[737] Spit?

[738] Control.

[739] Why did you guys know that?

[740] All she said was this is the.

[741] Because it's obvious, but I can't think of it.

[742] I already said it.

[743] Thank you.

[744] Fuck.

[745] All right.

[746] This is enough.

[747] Enough already.

[748] Police get a search.

[749] Police are like that, but we don't care.

[750] Police get a search warrant for Kevin's house with his wife of 20 years.

[751] He had a wife of 20 years.

[752] They get a search warrant.

[753] for the house, her name's Rebecca, and they, hold on, da -da -da -da -da -da -da -da, okay, they didn't, when they get the search warrant, they didn't tell the person who gave them one that they, there was a duplicate swab from Claire's case.

[754] They had taken one swab, put it away.

[755] They had taken another swab as the, you know, control and put it in the lab.

[756] And the original one, when they've tested it, there was no semen on it, and there was no Kevin Brown on it, probably um so that should have been the one that they used they didn't tell the judge that they got their search warrant and um the hundreds of items are confiscated from the brown's home including 14 boxes and three trash bags full of family belongings like fucking grandparents wedding photos like all this crazy shit oh just to see if just to try to pin this on him wow um and they didn't find anything substantial and they're so convinced of his guilt because of the DNA evidence, though, still, that they refused to return any of their possessions that they had confiscated and started a campaign trying to pressure Kevin Brown into confessing.

[757] So let me show you his picture.

[758] Oh, dear.

[759] There he is.

[760] So that's the criminologist.

[761] And his wife was like, you know, hold on.

[762] You make that noise.

[763] But like, if you would put this up four minutes ago, I'd have been like, look that fucking pig.

[764] Look at him in the strip clubs.

[765] and now he seems like the most gentle soul I've ever seen in my life well his wife of course said he's a nerdy nerd as soon as they got married after that time you know he was like in his 40s when they got married he was like the fucking he stopped doing all that shit it was like fine in the 80s he got married she was Catholic he converted for her and as soon as that happened he was like the best husband that's what she says and I think she's not lying I'm not calling her a liar So by the mid -2014, the stress of the investigation, which was dragging on and on, made Kevin, who had visited a therapist in the past because of his career and seeing so many fucking gruesome things, as we always wonder about.

[766] He had bouts of depression, anxiety, and insomnia.

[767] And by mid -2014, he was anxious and depressed, even worse than Barbara said she had ever, Rebecca said she had ever seen.

[768] So the police would call him and tell him that they knew that he killed Claire.

[769] and he might as well confess and, like, kind of hounded him and shit.

[770] Right.

[771] So on the morning of October 20th, 2014, Rebecca comes home, finds her husband's Bible and watch on the table, and he had to underline a psalm about the Jesus is silent, about being wrongfully accused.

[772] I don't think it was that good.

[773] No, it was.

[774] Yeah, it was.

[775] Thank you.

[776] It was.

[777] Because he is silent sometimes, isn't he?

[778] It's because you're carrying him.

[779] That's right.

[780] You're carrying him down the beach.

[781] And he's so quiet and heavy.

[782] Just say one thing, Jesus.

[783] Geez, let me know you're even there.

[784] Ant, whatever your name was, is real pissed right now.

[785] Okay.

[786] He underlined a psalm about being wrongfully accused, and then he left the house, didn't come home that night, and a ranger at Kliamaka State Park.

[787] Playa Maka.

[788] Did you do it?

[789] I do.

[790] It's actually spelled like it said.

[791] Nice.

[792] Finally.

[793] Thank you, San Diego.

[794] Truly.

[795] Helps us so much.

[796] So they had a vacation cabin there, and Kevin is found hanging from a tree.

[797] Horrible.

[798] He couldn't fucking handle what was happening.

[799] Everyone turning on him and being accused.

[800] Yeah.

[801] And three days after this, the police department went public and named him as one of the two suspects in Clare's murder.

[802] They still wouldn't fucking let go that he had something to do with it.

[803] Well, the DNA was telling them something.

[804] I mean, it's so basic and obvious, right?

[805] Or are I being crazy?

[806] No, no, no. But, I mean, I just think it's contextual of like they didn't note that everything could be contaminated with like a hair's breath.

[807] Well, then when they found out, then they found out.

[808] And enough.

[809] But then it's hard for those, it's hard for men to back down.

[810] They don't like it.

[811] They don't like it.

[812] I mean, look, I relate.

[813] But men really don't like to have to go back and be like, whoops, sorry.

[814] Yeah.

[815] My bad, everybody.

[816] Oops.

[817] There's no oops.

[818] Whoopsies.

[819] Men, if you could just practice saying whoopsies every once in a while.

[820] For society, it would help everybody.

[821] It really would.

[822] Okay, so Rebecca Brown sues, except not when you're interrupting women.

[823] That's a second high five.

[824] Thank you.

[825] The wife is suing the fucking San Diego these two detectives who were for misconduct and wrongful death.

[826] And this lost suit went to trial in 2017.

[827] It's still going on.

[828] She believes an overzealous investigator drove an innocent man to his death.

[829] And all she wants to do is clear her husband's name and that she's still fighting in court over it.

[830] Wow.

[831] Yeah.

[832] And as for Barbara's case, when they did that DNA check way back when and got Claire's two hits.

[833] Nothing came up on Barbara's case, unfortunately.

[834] And it still remains open and unsolved.

[835] And there's an interview on a 48 -hour episode with this guy, Jim, all the fucking cute surfer dude who's, like, never fucking been able to forgive himself.

[836] He said it was, like, the biggest lie he's ever told was that he'd take care of this guy's daughter.

[837] No. Yeah.

[838] It's so, like, watching this man. It's so sad.

[839] That's, like, broken.

[840] He suffers from survival.

[841] Vibra's guilt, and before he got married a while back, Barbara's father, who blamed him when it first happened, sent him a letter apologizing for that, and told him he doesn't blame this guy, Jim, for his daughter, Barbara's death.

[842] And that is a fucking Torrey Pines Beach murders.

[843] Thank you.

[844] It would be great if one of you guys could solve that situation.

[845] Yeah.

[846] We heard a woo -hoo about the examiner's office.

[847] Go to work on Monday.

[848] God.

[849] And solve that.

[850] It's so like...

[851] Isn't that bananas?

[852] Like four different things were happening in that sport.

[853] Well, we're going to switch over to this one now.

[854] Okay.

[855] Get ready.

[856] I'm ready.

[857] This is, and I don't know if this is actually what it's called, this might be a super cheesy, like, you know, women who murder type of title that some producer at an investigation discovery.

[858] It was like, I have an idea.

[859] But this is called the Rose Petal Murder.

[860] Oh.

[861] All right.

[862] So on November 6, 2000, the year 2000, remember?

[863] Yeah.

[864] Just after 9 .15 p .m., 24 -year -old Kristen Rossum calls 911 because her husband, Greg, is not breathing.

[865] She's crying so hard, the operator, finds it nearly impossible to give her instructions on how to perform CPR.

[866] Oh, my God.

[867] When, so they live, he was a student at the time at UC San Diego.

[868] Ah!

[869] The fighting.

[870] Just say it.

[871] Just say it.

[872] Mucklucks.

[873] Yes, the fighting mucklucks.

[874] Damn it.

[875] It always sneaks up on me that I'm going to have to think of a fucking, what is it called?

[876] Damn it.

[877] Word?

[878] So they live near the, you see San Diego campus.

[879] So when the campus police arrive on the scene, which when I was typing that up, I was like, oh, no. yeah that's not who you want to no offense I'm sure there's I'm sure there I'm sure they're the best police however the first badge you want to see is not does not say does not say I like to arrest teens for drinking Budweiser in the parking lot yeah and the back of their jack says go mucklucks that's not going to make you feel better no but also the campus police arrive on the scene they find Greg is laying on the couple's bed and when they go to try to do signs of life checks and start CPR they pull the blanket back and their rose petals all over his chest then when they move him they see that his wedding photo was underneath his head and Kristen and then someone notices Kristen's diary is laid open nearby to a page where she had written that she had made a mistake marrying him.

[880] Ooh, this sounds like some witchy shit.

[881] Right.

[882] Well, Stevie Nix was playing in the background.

[883] Spinning in a circle.

[884] A letter from Kristen's co -worker and secret lover was crumpled up on the floor.

[885] I mean, if she killed him, though, she would have fucking hidden that shit, right?

[886] Like immediately.

[887] Right.

[888] Okay.

[889] Yeah, one would think.

[890] Okay.

[891] So, when the paramedics arrive, she, Kristen, is sobbing over her husband's lifeless body, begging them to know why he'd taken his life.

[892] So the paramedics rush Greg to the hospital, but the brilliant young biochemist is pronounced dead on arrival.

[893] He's 26 years old.

[894] I get it.

[895] I get it.

[896] I get why there was the diary open.

[897] You got it?

[898] You're on it?

[899] I'm on it.

[900] Okay.

[901] We'll see.

[902] We'll see, true detective.

[903] It was staged I think it was staged Well, let's just Let's go into that a little bit Kristen Rossum We'll talk about her a little bit She grew up in Claremont Both her Both her parents were college professors Don't I want As a child She was a child model She was a ballerina They really?

[904] A lot of ballerino Forishnikov's here Welcome We're so happy to see you So it was They say it was a very high pressure household There was a lot of pressure For the children There's three children in that family To perform and to succeed And so she was a real perfectionist But in 1992 Which is sometimes what happens To children who are put under pressure And become perfectionists She starts using meth I found that...

[905] Are you talking about me?

[906] Yeah.

[907] Did Janet really laid it on that pressure?

[908] To take tap dancing for two years.

[909] And then she just let you quit.

[910] We did have a lot of extra quick.

[911] We had to have a thing.

[912] Like, you have to do a thing.

[913] But I realize now she just wanted to get out of the fucking house.

[914] So she can have some quiet time with Mommy's wine.

[915] Please leave Mommy alone.

[916] Yeah, that's right.

[917] And you're out there like, hello, my baby.

[918] All my dreams are coming true.

[919] And look at me now.

[920] Yeah.

[921] It worked.

[922] Do you want to do a quick...

[923] I'm a tap dancer.

[924] A quick tap dancer for everybody?

[925] Okay.

[926] Why?

[927] No, you have to.

[928] Was a classic shuffle ball change that Georgia just did.

[929] That was terrible.

[930] Shuffle ball change.

[931] Wow.

[932] You guys...

[933] You love embarrassing me. What I love is that...

[934] is that we actually really take advantage of your goodwill and do shit like that and then make you clap for us.

[935] It's very spoiled.

[936] Okay, so, and I made her do that, I fully admit.

[937] Okay, so she's a meth head.

[938] Like, many people in and around the San Diego area.

[939] I'm sorry.

[940] So many stories.

[941] All I did last night was talk about a meth head.

[942] It was the tank ramp.

[943] page that happened, and that guy was on so much meth that he could have started dealing meth out of his own head, because he had so much meth in his system.

[944] Please don't do meth.

[945] Okay.

[946] It's a hell of a drug.

[947] It's...

[948] Okay, so...

[949] I mean that negatively.

[950] I wasn't...

[951] I didn't mean like, it's a hell of a drug.

[952] Last pipe up in the air.

[953] I do a musical about...

[954] Tap dancing meth.

[955] Ta -da -da -ta.

[956] I bet meth and tap dancing actually mix very nicely.

[957] I would think.

[958] Yeah, I bet you're right.

[959] Let's find out.

[960] Okay.

[961] So, that's in 1992.

[962] She gets clean two years later, and she enrolled at University of Redlands.

[963] Hmm.

[964] The fighting, the screaming band, no. The angry, you do one.

[965] You do it.

[966] I have to do this part.

[967] Okay, great.

[968] You know what?

[969] I'll come back to you in two minutes.

[970] We'll figure out what mascot you want for University of Redlands.

[971] Okay.

[972] Oh, we don't care what the real one is.

[973] Bragg, brag, brag, brag.

[974] You went to college and you're really smart.

[975] Congratulations.

[976] Oh, I know.

[977] It's the fighting braggers.

[978] That's what it is.

[979] Here's the thing about the University of Redlands.

[980] Apparently, it's great for meth because she got right back on those drugs and she dropped out very soon after.

[981] Then, in the midst of a drug binge, this might be the most romantic story I've ever heard.

[982] In the midst of like a serious drug binge, she's on the pedestrian bridge between Chula Vista and Tijuana.

[983] Is this a meth meat cute?

[984] It's, this is a, Drug -addled Tijuana meet cute, like you've never heard.

[985] Let's hear it.

[986] She drops her jacket, and here comes Greg to pick it up.

[987] Be like, did you drop your jacket, little meth head?

[988] Let me help you.

[989] Shaky little lady.

[990] It's love at first sight.

[991] They start talking right there.

[992] He's with his brother and a friend.

[993] They're just pacing back and forth, waiting for him to be done.

[994] They don't stop talking, because that's a thing about my friend.

[995] meth because you can't stop talking.

[996] Yeah, it's not that romantic.

[997] It's just...

[998] Yeah, it's just necessary.

[999] So they...

[1000] Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

[1001] And then he brings her back to his apartment that he shares with his brothers and that friend and she stays.

[1002] So it really is love at first sight for them.

[1003] Like, stays, stays?

[1004] Stay, stays.

[1005] She lives at this apartment now.

[1006] Fuck.

[1007] Now, the brother and the friends are like, dude, what are you doing?

[1008] Like you picked up a meth head and brought her And like now you're in love with her And he's like, fuck you guys As sometimes boys have to do to their friends Fuck you, I love her And then she gets clean Well first of all she steals a bunch of shit from the apartment Okay All right, I see their point Yeah I see their point But then he helps her get clean Right and she does get clean Then he helps her reenroll But enroll at San Diego State, the fighting recovering methods.

[1009] Yes.

[1010] Keep on fighting.

[1011] Never stop fighting.

[1012] And then she ends up fucking getting straight A's.

[1013] She graduates some of cum laude, which I don't know what that means.

[1014] Damn.

[1015] She gets her degree in chemistry.

[1016] What?

[1017] Yes.

[1018] Oh yeah, you're right.

[1019] You're right.

[1020] That's very ironic.

[1021] It's hilarious.

[1022] It's sometimes your bad habits are just your passion waiting to be born.

[1023] Uh -huh.

[1024] She was trying to get a DIY chemistry major or degree.

[1025] It's like, no, don't do it that way.

[1026] Do it a nice organized way.

[1027] At San Diego State.

[1028] She calls Greg her angel.

[1029] After five years of living together, I assume the other guys moved out.

[1030] They got married in 1999.

[1031] Soon after, she starts her dream job as a junior toxicologist at the medical examiner's office here in San Diego.

[1032] Oh, let's take me. That's bananas.

[1033] That's them when they first met, and she is clean and everything was great.

[1034] Look at them.

[1035] And then that's their wedding day.

[1036] She looks way older than him.

[1037] I mean, I don't mean that in a...

[1038] Meth, that's meth, baby.

[1039] or maybe he just looks 14 I don't know he's young looking but then I don't know if you've ever seen and please look it up if you're interested the Oregonian newspaper once did a thing called faces of meth oh yeah it just showed it showed mugshots of people who were addicted to meth as as they went through the years and it is one of the most upsetting fucked up things if you think somebody might be at risk or might be on drugs just show them this article it is it's like watching a person turn 81 years old in five months.

[1040] It's so awful.

[1041] Oh, I've checked that out.

[1042] Oh, my God.

[1043] I've stayed up all night just going like, expand.

[1044] Oh, my God.

[1045] And then one, da -da -da.

[1046] Yes.

[1047] You're like, she's so pretty.

[1048] No, her teeth.

[1049] Oh, no, no. Her eyebrows.

[1050] What's on her face now?

[1051] What's that on her face?

[1052] It sucks.

[1053] It's rough shit.

[1054] Okay.

[1055] Here's the...

[1056] Where am I?

[1057] San Diego.

[1058] I can't read.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] So when the, that's your background.

[1061] So I'm back in the, we're back the night of.

[1062] So when the UC San Diego campus police look at the scene, they decide that it is in fact a suicide.

[1063] They're good with everything they're looking at.

[1064] Then they zip their jackets up and walk out.

[1065] Greg DeVillers family is adamant.

[1066] He would not commit suicide.

[1067] They're just like, absolutely not.

[1068] This is absolute bullshit.

[1069] You need to open an investigation.

[1070] This is crazy.

[1071] And police are very slow to do that.

[1072] They're just like, no, it's obvious.

[1073] His heart was broken.

[1074] He was jilted, whatever, until they send Greg's blood out to screen for toxins.

[1075] When they get the tests back, they see that something is off.

[1076] They don't know.

[1077] It's not meth.

[1078] They don't know what it is.

[1079] He had over -the -counter medicines in his system, but then there was other toxins that their system, like their testing system could not identify.

[1080] So that's when this whole case gets turned over to the San Diego PD.

[1081] who are immediately like, he didn't fucking kill himself.

[1082] Immediately.

[1083] Here, your wife is a chemist.

[1084] And there's shit in your blood that we don't know, like, you know what I mean?

[1085] So, San Diego homicide captain, Ron Newman said at the time, quote, the dead giveaway that she did it was that we've never seen a male suicide victim spread flowers around his bed before killing himself.

[1086] Are you serious?

[1087] dead giveaway so if she had just not made it look like American beauty she would have got away with it I was saving that for later but oh sorry no no no one of the reveals like what so they of course go two weeks after the death yeah San Diego PD goes to interview her and interrogate her really and she basically says he was very depressed he was drinking a lot before he died, and he was very upset about what happened.

[1088] He had just given me a dozen long stem roses for my birthday, and I think that was just his way of making a statement that he knew our relationship was over.

[1089] Then they learned that the day of Greg's death, Kristen had called the biotech company where Greg worked and told his employers he wouldn't be coming in that day.

[1090] Then they learned that she's relapsed and she's on meth again.

[1091] then they learn that a month after Greg's death that the medical examiner's office fires Kristen Rossum and her boss Dr. Michael Robertson because they're having an affair.

[1092] Uh -oh.

[1093] At the medical examiner's office?

[1094] Inside the medical examiner's office.

[1095] Right up against those beakers, girl.

[1096] It was right up against the employee dick swabs The wall of boy dick swabs?

[1097] Yes, they're both implicated in many, many murders.

[1098] Fluids abound.

[1099] So the cops are like, what's this you say?

[1100] You're firing those two.

[1101] Let's look into it.

[1102] Well, of course, the medical examiner's office learns that she's relapsed.

[1103] She's having an affair.

[1104] And then they see, oh, drugs are missing from the office where she works.

[1105] The meth cabinet?

[1106] Yeah, they go through.

[1107] The meth cabinet, I said.

[1108] I thought you said the med cabinet.

[1109] And then I assumed that was like, police talk that I didn't know.

[1110] And so I was like, just smile through it.

[1111] Keep smiling at her.

[1112] I can tell.

[1113] Med cabinet?

[1114] Me too.

[1115] A hundred.

[1116] A hundred percent.

[1117] Then she casually mentions that her favorite movie is American Beauty.

[1118] What the?

[1119] I mean.

[1120] And then the detectives are like, we gotcha.

[1121] Yeah, yeah.

[1122] Why would she?

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] I mean, I'm glad you got caught, but shut your mouth, honey.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] Shut it.

[1127] It's hard to do on meth.

[1128] Again, we just keep, if you leave with any message tonight.

[1129] So the detectives, now they request new toxicology reports that are not from the medical examiner's office.

[1130] We would love that.

[1131] Yeah.

[1132] what we'd love to get?

[1133] We'd like to go outside the city for these.

[1134] And so they end up sending blood samples to Los Angeles, Nevada, and Utah.

[1135] And when the tests come back, Mormons in the house, y 'all.

[1136] Mormons in the front row.

[1137] Thank you.

[1138] See, again, I tricked you into clapping for me. You have to do it.

[1139] So here's the thing.

[1140] Kristen, as a junior toxicologist at the medical examiner's office, knows what they do and do not test for when they do blood tox screens.

[1141] So when the test come back, it shows that Greg had seven times the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system.

[1142] Oh, man. So for those of you who don't know, fentanyl is a powerful painkiller that's prescribed to terminal cancer patients or others in excruciating pain, and it's so rarely prescribed that the Los Angeles Lab is one of the only labs that tests for it at all.

[1143] What years is 2000?

[1144] Yes.

[1145] Because now everyone does it.

[1146] I've got some fentanyl backstage if anybody feels like partying tonight.

[1147] Man, that shit.

[1148] Yeah.

[1149] Okay, so on June 25th, 2001, seven months after Greg DeVilleer's death, Rossum is arrested.

[1150] I only put her last name and then I'm like, now I don't know her first name.

[1151] Kristen Rossum is arrested in charge with murder.

[1152] She pleads not guilty.

[1153] Her parents pay her $1 .25 million bail.

[1154] Are you fucking kidding me?

[1155] It's only a percent.

[1156] You don't have to pay the full thing.

[1157] It's a percentage.

[1158] Do you get that money back?

[1159] No. I've always wondered.

[1160] I've never been arrested.

[1161] Thanks, Savannah.

[1162] She'll be there for you.

[1163] Yeah, yeah.

[1164] Right.

[1165] It'd be fun to talk to some, like a bail bond.

[1166] or someone that knows the ins and outs of all that shit.

[1167] Next time.

[1168] They pick her up from jail.

[1169] So then we go to the trial at the trial.

[1170] So the prosecutors basically lay out what they think happened.

[1171] So months after her marriage, months after her marriage, Kristen begins a passionate affair with her new boss, internationally known biochemist Dr. Michael Robertson.

[1172] Oh.

[1173] Oh, oh.

[1174] Let's take a peeky pool.

[1175] Oh, come on.

[1176] He's straight fucking Gray's anatomy.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] That's the guy that, like, you see him in the lunchroom, and he seems haunted, and then you're like, wow, I guess maybe he's a poet also and a chemist.

[1179] Is that his fucking headshot?

[1180] Hey.

[1181] That's them catching him outside being an international biochemist.

[1182] Hey, man. I mean.

[1183] But he also just likes to hang out and watch TV.

[1184] What?

[1185] She could not.

[1186] Okay.

[1187] She had to.

[1188] She had to.

[1189] No. Stop it.

[1190] So she starts it up with, sorry.

[1191] Stop staring at him.

[1192] You lost them completely.

[1193] What?

[1194] She starts this affair with him.

[1195] Greg finds a letter that he wrote to Kristen, that Dr. Michael Robertson wrote to Kristen, that's when he finds out the affairs happening.

[1196] He tells, Greg tells Kristen, you have to quit that job or I'm going to go there and tell the medical examiner's office, not only that you're having an affair with your boss, but that you're on meth, because I know you're on meth again.

[1197] And that's, they believe that that's when she decided, I got to kill this guy.

[1198] What?

[1199] And that's when she starts taking fentanyl home in her pockets since she'd already been stealing amphetamines from work.

[1200] it was really easy to transition over to fentanyl.

[1201] Well, she's fucking the boss.

[1202] You got that key to the cabinet, man. They fuck up against the cabin.

[1203] It makes the drugs feel better.

[1204] Okay.

[1205] So she knew the reason she stole fentanyl is because she knew they didn't test for it.

[1206] So she knew she would be free and clear.

[1207] The damning blow came at the trial when police presented the evidence of her Vons card purchasing history.

[1208] No. No. Yes.

[1209] I remember way back then when I heard that those can be subpoenaed, and I've just been in awe of that ever since.

[1210] Yes.

[1211] Yes.

[1212] How hilarious is that?

[1213] What did she buy?

[1214] She bought soup.

[1215] Okay.

[1216] Guilty?

[1217] It was, I believe it was soup, bread, and a single red rose.

[1218] Oh.

[1219] What a fucking idiot.

[1220] She got her five percent discount.

[1221] She's like, ooh, I'm going to get some coupons back on this.

[1222] I don't have my card.

[1223] Can I use my phone number?

[1224] This is why you always got to use your ex -boyfriend's card.

[1225] Yes.

[1226] That's right.

[1227] Yeah, so then that's locked.

[1228] In November of 2002, Kristen Rossum is found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[1229] Oh, Jennifer Aniston's sad.

[1230] Oh, my God.

[1231] Dude, but she has Brad Pitt's haircut.

[1232] Right?

[1233] She's fucking, a river runs through it here.

[1234] And she is sad about that decision.

[1235] Prison isn't fun.

[1236] We will say this for Dr. Robertson, although he was definitely implicated and the prosecution tried to theorize that he had something to do was involved.

[1237] with the murder, helped plan it, helped her get the drugs, whatever.

[1238] Dr. Robertson denies any involvement in the murder.

[1239] He was quoted as saying, quote, I had absolutely no knowledge or participation in the very sad events that led up to Greg's death.

[1240] And in the end, with Kristen's conviction, it's like a sad end of two lives.

[1241] My only regret is that I had an extramarital affair.

[1242] I had an extramarital relationship, but that was my only crime.

[1243] If that is a crime.

[1244] Is it?

[1245] But I just love that at the end of just like, that's my crime.

[1246] It's not a crime, so actually I'm fine.

[1247] I'm actually a really good guy.

[1248] I feel like, though, this chick seems like the kind of person who, if he had been involved, then immediately had turned on him and been like, he did it and give up it.

[1249] You know what I mean?

[1250] Very true.

[1251] Good point.

[1252] You know, you mean like a meth type?

[1253] Here's interesting.

[1254] After the trial in 2006, Greg DeVillers family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Kristen Rossum and Sandy.

[1255] County.

[1256] So what happened is I think they started hearing rumors that she might be writing her story, that somebody might buy the rights to her story.

[1257] Jennifer Aniston.

[1258] Yeah, so Jennifer Aniston's production company could make it for her.

[1259] The family, so the family turns in this lawsuit, they asked for $50 million in punitive damages because they figured out that there's a possibility that she could make $60 million from selling the rights to her story.

[1260] story.

[1261] So they're basically are just like, we just want to make sure she doesn't make money off of our son and brother's death.

[1262] When the jury came back, they awarded the DeVillers family $100 million in punitive damages.

[1263] They were just like, not only are you right, let's lock this down with $100 million.

[1264] Here's a fun number.

[1265] And that's in 2000 money.

[1266] That's $2 ,000.

[1267] This is $16 trillion in today's money.

[1268] eventually just you know eventually a judge came in and reduced those punitive damages but they still got 10 million dollars for that and there is a book called poisoned love written by a woman named Caitlin Rother if you want to know all the gory details and there are so so many then read a poison love and that is the story of the rose pedal murder that was great that was that was the perfect like when we look for a murder to do at live that's the one right not this one no no good no that was great uh this was another one of those four o 'clock i kept throwing him out and throwing and going like oh it's stupid you guys have so many super bummers like you guys you don't fuck around there's not a lot of like well this guy went over and rode his bike and brought an axe and that you know it's nothing the tank story is a little bit like that other than that it is dark fucking shit you don't mess around way to go guys Way to go.

[1269] Do we have time for our own?

[1270] Let's do it.

[1271] Can you tell me?

[1272] Nothing.

[1273] You think something's on there?

[1274] Did say, bro.

[1275] Tour manager.

[1276] Tour manager.

[1277] What's up?

[1278] Husband, friend.

[1279] Real quick.

[1280] I get a new Vaughn's card every time I go to this store.

[1281] It's true.

[1282] Never provide any personal information.

[1283] You don't have to.

[1284] Very smart.

[1285] You get the deals.

[1286] You get out.

[1287] That's right.

[1288] I'm going to be right over there.

[1289] Okay.

[1290] Thank you.

[1291] Thanks, Vince.

[1292] Thanks so much.

[1293] If you like wrestling, please listen to the podcast.

[1294] We watch wrestling, which is Vince's podcast.

[1295] Okay.

[1296] Um, town.

[1297] Listen, there's rules and regulations.

[1298] Karen's going to tell them to you.

[1299] I think the first rule I'm going to say tonight is we want it to be short.

[1300] We don't.

[1301] Unless it's really, really good.

[1302] I mean, it can be good, but truly, this is a thing where it's like, uh, we're waiting for the bus to come.

[1303] You're going to tell us something really quick, and then the bus comes, then we all go.

[1304] That's the feeling we want.

[1305] If you're one of those people that likes to really stretch it out and kind of go, um, a lot, we don't want you up here.

[1306] What we would love is a San Diego true crime story that affected you as a child or at some point in your life.

[1307] And we want you to not be super shit -faced when you tell it.

[1308] And I think other than that, you've heard these rules so many times.

[1309] Isn't anything I'm missing?

[1310] No, but you're picking tonight.

[1311] I get sad and it scares me. The people, I'm sorry, but the people in the way back, it just never happens for you.

[1312] It's such a pain.

[1313] So if you could bring the house lights up just a tiny bit talented, Mr. Lighting man, thank you so much.

[1314] See, the problem with me picking is I don't have good vision.

[1315] So I had to do it more based on vibes.

[1316] Gray sweater One hand up, yeah Yeah No, it's you That's a tattoo You just turned around Come on But hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry Hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry Faster, faster, faster Go to Vince Vince, he'll take you up Hey, what's going on, balcony?

[1317] Look at that, Balski That's like a, you're like on an escalator going down Okay, turn the lights down or she'll get scared Yeah, we don't want to see this anymore Okay I do that every time Her fly was too She just buttoned her pants everybody She just buttoned her pants I drank a lot of beer today It's Ashley It's Ashley everybody Where are you from?

[1318] Here, San Diego Okay, what neighborhood?

[1319] Hi, what neighborhood?

[1320] Claremont Claremont The Tweakers And this story is about a tweaker Is it?

[1321] My ex -boyfriend Okay.

[1322] So, Jesus Christ.

[1323] I know, right?

[1324] Anyway, I dated this guy from when I was 16 and 19, and he was a piece of shit.

[1325] Sure.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] I remember one time we were supposed to get a dinner, and I had already eaten dinner, and he was mad, so he kicked me out of his truck.

[1328] What?

[1329] Like, legit, like, Genesee Avenue.

[1330] Anyone who knows?

[1331] Genesee.

[1332] Not good?

[1333] No. No, you have to walk up a huge.

[1334] huge fucking hill.

[1335] You're like, I just ate, I can't look up that hill.

[1336] Exactly.

[1337] So anyway, I broke up with him, and a couple years later, my girlfriend went to a school where her son's at, met his mom.

[1338] And his mom had said, well, he was obviously schizophrenic and bipolar, which I fucking knew.

[1339] He called it?

[1340] I got kicked out of a truck for eating.

[1341] So, anyway.

[1342] told him, you know, he had come after her with a bat and tried to kill her.

[1343] His mom?

[1344] His mom.

[1345] His own mother.

[1346] And wanted my friend to come to me and talk to me and give me an apology because I told him, I told the parents get him into some fucking help.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] 17 years old.

[1349] And I'm like, hey, guess what?

[1350] Get your kids some help?

[1351] Diagnosed.

[1352] Like, he's bipolar.

[1353] They didn't get him help, obviously.

[1354] and he started doing a lot of meth lots of meth in Claremont and so the meth turned into him becoming a street person I don't know what the like technical term is that's fine and he met a bum I don't really I'm sorry no no right yeah no right yeah I already you did so good and then you went straight yeah so he met another very nice street person Right.

[1355] Transient.

[1356] There you go.

[1357] Transient.

[1358] There it is.

[1359] I already buttoned my pants on stage.

[1360] It's going downhill.

[1361] So...

[1362] It's all good.

[1363] It's all good.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] Anyway, met the transient, got mad at the transient, beat him to a pole, and killed him.

[1366] Oh, here in San Diego?

[1367] Here in San Diego.

[1368] Holy shit.

[1369] Yeah.

[1370] So I had heard about that from another friend because everybody in Claremont keeps very close -knit and has sex with each other, but that's another thing.

[1371] it's the damn true my current fiance knows my ex -boyfriend and my other ex -boyfriend and like three other ex -boyfriend's but anyhow we're keeping this short right okay I forgot anyway he is now in prison for the rest of his life and the craziest part about it is he has a mental illness he is schizophrenic, he's bipolar there's a lot of issues with him and they had given him a deal they said if you just own up to it if you take these tests you can be diagnosed you can be put into a psychiatric ward and he says fuck you I'm fine yeah so he's in prison and he will be in prison for the rest of his life because of his pride own up to your mental illnesses we do we do Ashley everybody here take a flag oh yeah you get a flag yeah well earned Well done.

[1372] Thank you.

[1373] Too much I shouldn't have that when she got kicked out of the truck.

[1374] Oh my God.

[1375] We got to go to Claremont tonight.

[1376] Karen's like, Claremont sounds fun.

[1377] Claremont sounds crazy.

[1378] I like to.

[1379] Wow, that's bananas.

[1380] So I always make Vince tell me how many seats are in every theater because I like to text my dad and because my dad loves to know exactly how many seats are in the theater that we're playing that night.

[1381] And so, well, first of all, tonight he texted and said, um how did he say it you know like ron burgundy's stay classy san diego so he's he texted me because he's obsessed with ron burgundy um he texted me stay sexy san diego to me before the show started mr kilgarov i know he's in he's hip he's hip all of this is to say that uh we sold out an almost three thousand seat theater two nights in a row because of you guys.

[1382] Because of you.

[1383] You guys did that.

[1384] It's crazy.

[1385] We never do this.

[1386] We never go to one city and stay there.

[1387] And it's been so fun doing it in San Diego, which is such a great city.

[1388] Yeah.

[1389] So thank you guys so much for supporting us.

[1390] This is incredible.

[1391] It's, yeah, it's just this kind of show and this kind of turnout.

[1392] It doesn't happen that much these days.

[1393] And we are, we know how insanely lucky and blessed and all that other shit that we are.

[1394] It's just, we're blown away.

[1395] And to kick off this tour in such a huge way with you guys is amazing.

[1396] Thank you.

[1397] It's amazing.

[1398] So thank you so much.

[1399] Thank you, San Diego.

[1400] We love you.

[1401] Stay sexy.