Brooke Shields

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dach Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Hi.

[4] Hi there.

[5] I wasn't looking at you in the eyes.

[6] Could you feel that?

[7] Yeah, it felt really cold.

[8] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[9] Let's try it again.

[10] Okay.

[11] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[12] I'm Dax Shepard.

[13] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[14] Hi.

[15] Hi, good afternoon.

[16] Hello.

[17] Good morning.

[18] Well, depending on the place in the world you are.

[19] That's right.

[20] We have to account for everyone in every corner of the globe.

[21] That's right.

[22] Speaking of someone who was known around the globe.

[23] Pretty good segue.

[24] Really good ding, ding, ding.

[25] Brooke Shields.

[26] Brooke Shields, of course, is an actor and a model.

[27] And above all that, a fucking icon, a certified icon.

[28] And she has a new movie out on Netflix called A Castle for Christmas.

[29] And we talk about that as well as her incredibly unique, interesting story.

[30] Yeah, this was a great episode.

[31] It was really, really fun.

[32] It exceeded my expectations by quite a bit.

[33] I really, really liked it.

[34] We have a limited run, 500 limited edition Marine Layer Armchair Expert, sweatshirts, if you want to get one, they have hand -drawn artwork on them.

[35] You can hear about it more in the fact check, or you can just go buy one now.

[36] Go to armchairexpertpod .com, and you can get a beautiful, beautiful blue marine layer armchair expert.

[37] Hand -drawn by Doc Shepard.

[38] Okay, please enjoy Brooks Shields.

[39] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[40] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[41] Or you can listen for free.

[42] wherever you get your podcasts.

[43] I saw you glance around, getting comfortable with your surroundings.

[44] That's Monica as a baby.

[45] That's me as a baby.

[46] Can you even comprehend the cuteness that is that photo?

[47] We have found it to have some healing powers with a few people, so we keep it up.

[48] Absolutely.

[49] Really sweet.

[50] My childhood best friend from Michigan has a copy of that hanging in his living room.

[51] Really?

[52] Yeah.

[53] And he says, I stare at sometimes, and I think I might.

[54] love this baby more than my own children.

[55] Will you hone in on the eyebrows real quick?

[56] Yeah, I mean, I'm slightly jealous.

[57] It used to be my domain, but clearly it's not.

[58] Actually, that's the best compliment I could ever get from anyone, ever.

[59] Just had to pass the torch.

[60] You thought you were the queen of the brows in 87, and guess what?

[61] Jokes on you.

[62] Major competition.

[63] I'm happy to hand you and do the torch.

[64] Okay, so right away you got here, and we started talking about this preposterous.

[65] schedule you're on right so you flew in late last night you've been press all day and then you're going to take a red eye back to new york so what that immediately makes me think of is the difference between my wife and i okay okay so your husband's in show business as well chris yes he's come up multiple times on this show because he's one of the best storytell we're getting into that i've only had a couple meetings with him and i almost remember every story he talks he's such a good storyteller but do you fall into this pattern where my wife when she has to go out of town she wants to be with the kids.

[66] So she takes the last flight out and then the very first flight back.

[67] It makes herself miserable.

[68] And I lie and say I'm starting one day earlier than I am.

[69] And I go sit in a hotel and just sit there on a bed and I'm so happy.

[70] And enjoy your freedom.

[71] Yes.

[72] And I'm on face -timing them all the while here.

[73] Right.

[74] Right.

[75] And then I just can't wait to get back because it's a weekend.

[76] How old are they?

[77] 18 and asshole.

[78] Okay.

[79] So is that 15?

[80] Perfect.

[81] Perfect.

[82] 15?

[83] I ganged that big day.

[84] Wow, good job.

[85] Yes.

[86] She is 15.

[87] She's 15.

[88] That's what she is, is 15.

[89] Yeah.

[90] I guess we have a similar age gap.

[91] We'll be hitting that sweet spot at the exact same time version.

[92] And you'll have two of them.

[93] Yeah.

[94] And it's fun.

[95] Yeah.

[96] It's just, I mean, I just got this, FaceTime.

[97] There's a dress that she wants to buy, and so she's FaceTime Amy and the dress.

[98] And it's like this drama.

[99] And I'm trying to succinctly tell.

[100] her what is the best plan of action to get said dress.

[101] And in case said dress doesn't fit the same way we can get another one, but we'll, like this whole thing.

[102] But I was laying it out.

[103] Then I get a text that says, I really don't appreciate the way you talk to me. Okay.

[104] I think that you talk to me like I am a child.

[105] And I'm like, hmm, okay.

[106] Oh, wow.

[107] You are.

[108] You are my child.

[109] Yeah.

[110] Let's start there.

[111] You are my child.

[112] They're so different.

[113] Are yours really different?

[114] Oh, my God.

[115] They're opposites.

[116] And day.

[117] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[118] Same parents, same bodies.

[119] Same house.

[120] They're getting all their nurturing in.

[121] Nurturing same.

[122] And it's just.

[123] It shines a light on how much genetically is going on with us, don't you think?

[124] Exactly.

[125] Now, we try to distance ourselves from these gender stereotypes, but I'm going to fucking double down on this one.

[126] So I think conventionally, girls are way easier as kids than boys.

[127] They potty train quicker.

[128] They learn to speak quicker.

[129] They learn to walk quicker.

[130] I mean, they're just.

[131] As little children, I mean.

[132] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[133] Yeah.

[134] They're faster to their.

[135] growth in their progress.

[136] They communicate better.

[137] They're generally more cooperative.

[138] And then the whole scenario flips in the teen years.

[139] And then also in the boys that were like, you couldn't get them to fucking do anything, pull their pants up.

[140] Now they're just like they're not a pain in the ass.

[141] I don't have boys.

[142] But when I think about boys and girls, I think that a boy at the same age will want to just take a vase, right?

[143] And just smash it.

[144] Just to see what it feels like when it's.

[145] It hits the ground.

[146] Do you feel it?

[147] Like, if you throw it hard, like, what's how they want to feel that.

[148] The girl will watch the scenario, stand next to the mother and say, oh, is that valuable?

[149] Is that like an heirloom?

[150] Is that your mother?

[151] Yeah.

[152] Oh, gosh.

[153] It probably can't be fixed.

[154] And you're like, oh, my God, you're evil.

[155] So they're ratcheting up the trauma that the broken vase has induced.

[156] I think the hormones, like, you know, you don't want to sort of blame things on it.

[157] But what's raging through their bodies is sometimes I just have to not respond.

[158] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[159] I just have to sort of almost not even breathe, wait for the storm to hit and then dissipate and then just move on.

[160] That's right.

[161] Listen, you don't go outside and start cleaning up your yard after a tornado mid -tornado.

[162] No. You wait.

[163] You like double -check.

[164] Then you're grateful for the tornado of.

[165] eventually taught you some stuff.

[166] Do they treat your husband different than you, do you feel?

[167] They're completely different, the way they react, the way they respond.

[168] It's also interesting to see because girls, I really do think, well, mine anyway, their dad is kind of their first love.

[169] Yeah, yeah, of course, right.

[170] It's just there's something in that.

[171] It's special.

[172] It's like the greatest fucking thing on earth for me. I mean, yeah.

[173] I mean, my girls tell me everything for better or worse yeah yeah and it usually ends up with don't tell dad yeah we'll see if that flips it all just because I have conventionally been the disciplinarian I'm the one that's like bedtime's this time we don't eat a lot of sugar I've kind of unfortunately taken that role did you know you were going to take that role or did you just like did that happen that's a great question I don't think I had any expectations one way or another I'm six and a half years older than my little sister and my mom worked in single mothers.

[174] So I very much was part of raising that little girl, like diapers, the whole nine yards.

[175] So I wasn't nervous.

[176] Like other parents are nervous.

[177] I'm like, oh, fuck, I did this at seven.

[178] Right.

[179] And Carly's alive.

[180] She's doing great.

[181] She's thriving.

[182] So I didn't have a lot of the anxiety, I think, and then that may have just kind of funneled in a lot of different directions.

[183] Which is really great.

[184] I mean, Chris had to, with Rowan, I had really bad postpartum depression.

[185] So I was, and my hands were like a prize fighters, like after a loss.

[186] Swole.

[187] It was massively swollen.

[188] And so between depression and crying all the time and not even being able to hold the baby and trouble press feeding, it was like all that stuff, he had to sort of swoop in.

[189] And he went from being like a guy who was like, oh, I'm going to break a baby, you know, to like football hold on the phone with this, you know, this, the walking and just swooped in.

[190] And with the second child, I was absolutely fine.

[191] And so I was Uber at it.

[192] Yeah.

[193] And we had very different relationships with.

[194] With number one and two.

[195] The number one and two.

[196] Like he, by the time when we got to Greer, the younger one, she just wanted to be back inside my womb.

[197] Yeah, yeah.

[198] And she was, I want to be in Do.

[199] She's a little old lady.

[200] And he just would say like, she doesn't like me. She doesn't like me. I'm like, she's a month.

[201] Wow.

[202] She doesn't not like you.

[203] Can I guess something, though?

[204] Yeah.

[205] If you had to say, well, let's start with, do the children take after either of you?

[206] Don't tell me which.

[207] Personality way?

[208] Right.

[209] So my guess is going to be that the firstborn is very much you and the second born is him.

[210] So exactly.

[211] Okay.

[212] Except the firstborn looks more like him.

[213] Right, but who gives a shit?

[214] Yeah, so that.

[215] Personality, right?

[216] Personality, the younger one, they're the first.

[217] the same sign.

[218] They're Ares.

[219] And Rowan and I are so much more sort of similar in our approach to the world.

[220] Because we have a great friend, a best friend, Amy, who pointed this out to us.

[221] And I really agree with it.

[222] And I've observed it in a bunch of other families, which is in their family, the oldest is very much like her.

[223] And the second is very much like him.

[224] And then they get along with each other the best.

[225] So like...

[226] Right.

[227] So, like, our second is very much like Kristen, and I can talk to her.

[228] Like, I can get through to her because I've been practicing for 15 years on Kristen.

[229] Yeah.

[230] So, like, the one that's like Chris, you just jive with because you have this kind of...

[231] It's a very...

[232] It's a very...

[233] That is a very good theory.

[234] I believe that Rowan has the same sense of humor.

[235] She's like her dad.

[236] Like, she's...

[237] We have the same sort of...

[238] Playfulness?

[239] Playfulness.

[240] And also, we think that...

[241] the next thing that the other one's thinking much more so.

[242] Right.

[243] And it is, that dynamic is very similar to Chris and...

[244] Yeah, yeah.

[245] It's just a good flow.

[246] Yeah, it is.

[247] Yeah.

[248] And it's funny because the younger one, I mean, the 15 -year -old, she shocks me at times with her.

[249] I mean, she's like a social justice warrior, but she can take an argument and, I mean, manipulate it.

[250] She can do something wrong and you'll apologize.

[251] Yeah, good.

[252] She's something.

[253] Like, I would love her to be like a prosecutor or something because.

[254] She's going to be a defense attorney.

[255] She's going to get off all kinds of bad people.

[256] Oh, yeah.

[257] And you'll feel bad about even just bringing them in to the courtroom.

[258] Right, right.

[259] We're sorry.

[260] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[261] For me, it's like been the funnest thing I've ever done.

[262] I said I didn't.

[263] I never regretted having children until I sent my first one to college.

[264] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[265] Because you're just like, oh, I didn't expect this kind of pain.

[266] be gutted.

[267] I mean, gutted.

[268] It just seems like it's going to be forever.

[269] Yeah, I should say something really positive right now, but I'm not.

[270] I'm going to be honest, which is like it just gets less and less.

[271] They get a bigger and bigger life.

[272] And ideally, that's the trajectory.

[273] That's what you want.

[274] Like you look at your own relationship, my own relationship with my parents, and it's like, I have a great one.

[275] And I think I'm a couple standard deviations above how often I talk to my mom.

[276] But at the same time, I have a very busy life now.

[277] And your kids will have busy lives.

[278] And that's this process and it's brutal you don't really think about it and also i was so enmeshed with my mother you know i mean like it was the two of us against the world so that by the time i even went to college i was terrified i was like i'd never been by myself i'd never been alone it wasn't some relief that i felt right you weren't craving freedom or anything no and all of a sudden i thought oh god what have i gotten myself into you know and it obviously after a while it you know, I adapted, but I watched it also sort of be the beginning of the end for her.

[279] For your mother?

[280] Uh -huh.

[281] Like then, I watched it and I saw, and she made a very conscious choice to not grab me back in when I would have gone.

[282] Did your mother stay single while she was raising you?

[283] Yeah.

[284] So I had a bunch of stepdadds, but there was a lot of periods where single and money was tight.

[285] So we were partners.

[286] Right.

[287] Us three kids were partners with her.

[288] And I'll go over a step further.

[289] She almost raised the husband she would have.

[290] have wanted.

[291] Oh, okay.

[292] You know what I'm saying?

[293] Like her and I, we have an incredible relationship.

[294] I also recognize, like, I wanted her to be happy.

[295] Right.

[296] In a way that a husband's not going to.

[297] A husband's like autonomous.

[298] He wants to do his fucking thing.

[299] I just wanted to make her happy.

[300] And I wanted to keep my mother alive.

[301] Like, I just had to keep her alive.

[302] Right.

[303] So that's what I want to talk about taking on that role as a kid.

[304] And of course, you're not aware of it when you're taking it on.

[305] And then later down the line, maybe you're like, oh, yeah, I guess that was minimally abnormal, maybe at the very least a single mom be alcoholic okay see i was a famous pretty quickly and she was an actress and a model herself not an actress modeled in the garment district like put the dresses on had desires to be a model how about that i don't know what she had desires to do her main desire was to get out of newark and she got out of new work you know and i think she wanted to be somebody else and so she very poor, but would go to the thrift shops and get all the poochie and fancy stuff that the rich ladies would just dump off at the whenever sale.

[306] And she fashioned herself this New York city fabulous, sort of a sex pot.

[307] She learned all the rules and all the manners.

[308] So there was this sort of societal, I think, approval that she wanted.

[309] Yeah.

[310] Falls in love with my dad, who was if that world completely.

[311] He was a Revlon executive.

[312] He was.

[313] He was, Helen.

[314] Helen Rubinstein, then he went into sort of executive headhunting.

[315] You know, they're placing executive positions in places like those companies.

[316] Yeah.

[317] And then they were divorced when I was five months old.

[318] Can we tell what seems like an insane story, which is his family offered her money to terminate the pregnancy, Monica?

[319] Wow, wow, wow, wow.

[320] Because it wasn't good for his social standing.

[321] Sure.

[322] Because they weren't married yet.

[323] And she took the money, which is the most gangster part.

[324] Yeah.

[325] And guess what?

[326] And we can see now talking about it, she didn't carry through with the plan.

[327] Wow.

[328] And she did.

[329] She said, she did one of these things where she was like, I totally understand and slid the envelope.

[330] Like, say no more.

[331] Yes, I hear you.

[332] I hear you.

[333] Yep.

[334] Which is not a lie.

[335] She heard him.

[336] And she understood what they wanted.

[337] Yeah, totally.

[338] Yeah.

[339] And then she bought a table.

[340] So they were never married.

[341] They were married.

[342] So what happened was he went out of town thinking that this situation was going to be handled and taken care of.

[343] He came back a couple of months later, sniffing around again, you know, missed her and whatever.

[344] She said she'd meet him.

[345] She met him and she was like out to here pregnant.

[346] And he was like, Jesus Christ.

[347] Oh my God.

[348] And then made her marry him like in City Hall.

[349] Wow.

[350] And you cared that much about that label.

[351] Yeah.

[352] And I think she was completely in love with him.

[353] And I think he was in love with her.

[354] But his mother died when he was like 18, I think.

[355] And my mom was older than my dad by like nine years.

[356] Oh, my goodness.

[357] Yeah, in the 60s.

[358] And so there's something in there.

[359] That's some Freudian shit, obviously.

[360] For him.

[361] Yeah, for him.

[362] Sure.

[363] And for her to sort of be approved by him, that was sort of the society was going to welcome her and she was going to really get out of her roots, you know?

[364] Yeah.

[365] He must have been terribly young then.

[366] He was just out of college, practically.

[367] I mean, he was so beautiful.

[368] Was he?

[369] Like, ridiculous, you know?

[370] And she was like, peep, beep, beep, beep, beep, bee, dee.

[371] Yeah.

[372] Heat seeking missile.

[373] Oh, I thought that was her backing up into him, which also would work.

[374] That would also work.

[375] Either way.

[376] That I have to know, it's very possible.

[377] She never felt like she was ever going to be good enough.

[378] So when he had another trip, she got divorced without even telling him.

[379] Oh, my goodness.

[380] So she left him.

[381] She was like the you can't fire me. I quit person.

[382] So she knew he wasn't going to want to be with her.

[383] Yes.

[384] So she didn't want to be left.

[385] You know, she went to the upper hand.

[386] Exactly.

[387] So she will, that's like sort of cutting your nose up just by your face kind of thing.

[388] Oh, I've been that way in the past.

[389] Yeah, we all are.

[390] We all are.

[391] We're trying to protect ourselves.

[392] She always battled with that, where she was so smart, but not educated and held that.

[393] Yeah.

[394] Carried that.

[395] Did either of her parents, like, covet status and social standing?

[396] Like, where did she get it from?

[397] Just on her own?

[398] I think hers was really from the movies.

[399] Yeah.

[400] Called them moving pictures, and she would sneak out.

[401] And she would go into the moving pictures, and she would, where they would have the periodicals and whatever's happening in the war and all that.

[402] And then she just lived in this fantasy world.

[403] And so she created herself.

[404] We think of Instagram as being this novel thing, but movies really from the get -go have been Instagram.

[405] They've been, they fuck you up.

[406] Really fuck you up.

[407] I mean, I have to tell you, I've lived in the fantasy world of movies since I could breathe.

[408] It was in a very personal experience for me. When we moved out of the city, we would still go to these movie theaters and we would just go in one movie and go to the other one, then start over, finish it to the end, then wait till the beginning, and then pick it up where we, I mean, we'd bring sandwiches in and we just, we would go to the movies for hours.

[409] And on the way home, I would sit in the back of the car, put my head sort of on the cold window, and I would redo the endings of the movies, and I would insert myself in the movies.

[410] And this was even after I was an act.

[411] actress which it's a little bit like god it's fast no no i can totally relate i mean i would be nine riding my bicycle and it would have crossed my mind like this is a cool shot like i want music to be playing like i had the wherewithal to go like i want my theme music to be popping on right now and yes even after getting behind the curtain right i still have moments when i'm driving my car and it's like yeah like this is a montage put a 150 across the street get me and then put this song on yeah Like, I still want to be in a movie.

[412] I see things like steady cams, like, and I'll have whole scenarios in my head that I'll get so lost down the rabbit hole of them.

[413] And what will have it is right before even any sort of situation that could be any kind of happy sound or whatever.

[414] I've played it out already.

[415] So sometimes by the time I get in there, I'm thinking, this is deja vu.

[416] Right, right, right.

[417] Like that makes me a little nutty.

[418] Yeah.

[419] Okay.

[420] Okay, you and Monica have kind of a lot to bond on.

[421] So Monica, she saw Goodwill Hunting and it, like, it infected her.

[422] And she saw it thousands of times and she would close her eyes in class and just watch.

[423] No, not close my eyes.

[424] I could do it now.

[425] I probably have done it during some interviews where I'm just like staring, but I can watch the movie.

[426] Wow.

[427] And I can, like, be in it.

[428] And I had so many moments of, and yeah, maybe still do every now and then of like feeling transported into that space.

[429] But then I can click out of it now because I'm like, oh, that's, that's me trying to escape.

[430] I know that.

[431] It's a form of escape.

[432] Yeah.

[433] And then I'm going to say, too, both of you were virgins pretty late.

[434] Yeah.

[435] Oh.

[436] So I think there might be some weird.

[437] That's a really interesting segue.

[438] Well, it's not really.

[439] It's actually they're super related for Monica.

[440] Yeah.

[441] Okay.

[442] And I'm now curious if they're related for you, which is she was very much living in this fantasy world for reasons because she had a whole story.

[443] story of why that wasn't going to happen in real life.

[444] Right.

[445] And so it existed there and it was so fertile that it was, I'd say.

[446] It was enough.

[447] It was enough.

[448] Right.

[449] I had the same but opposite.

[450] Tell me. I was so cut off from everything sexual.

[451] Because I was also the face.

[452] I was the cover girl.

[453] Youngest cover girl of Vogue ever.

[454] And all of those things in those.

[455] label the Lolita, and then somehow I became the most famous virgin.

[456] And it was just too much to really try to even understand.

[457] So I didn't think about it.

[458] Okay.

[459] How much do you trip out?

[460] You're just a dash older than me, but what's tripping me out so frequently lately is that I've lived through all these periods that I had no clue were so insane until I now see clips of stuff.

[461] And I'm like, oh my God.

[462] So we always talk about like, I watch the Britney Spears documentary.

[463] And to see, like, oh, yeah, we were just all cool with the fact that 300 men were fist fighting around her in a circle.

[464] And that was cool.

[465] That was an assault.

[466] Also, then every late night show is calling her a slut.

[467] 50 -year -old men are asking her for boobs are real at 16.

[468] And you're like, what the fuck did we all live through?

[469] And then so today I had the moment of going through your stuff.

[470] And I was like, oh, my God, it's even deeper.

[471] Like, it's even deeper back when I was a kid.

[472] Yeah.

[473] Are you not having the same, like, earth -shattering thing I'm having, which is like, oh, my God.

[474] Well, so, and I saw the Brittany.

[475] living too.

[476] And I was just like, all of a sudden felt this complete urge to just go take care of her.

[477] And I was like, she needs to know me. She needs to talk to me. And I mean, I don't know her.

[478] I had the same thing.

[479] I reached out to her on Instagram.

[480] Oh, well, okay.

[481] You need a real friend that doesn't want anything from you.

[482] I know.

[483] I know.

[484] And it's like, and then you've heard people say that to you.

[485] And you're like, okay, I don't really need for, like, leave me alone.

[486] Like, I don't need to be saved.

[487] But, you know, so I'm involved in a project now.

[488] about me. That's all I'm allowed to say at the moment.

[489] But I've recently had to go back and look at all of my footage and appearances and tonight shows and Barbara Walters.

[490] That Barbara Walters interview is maddening.

[491] Oh, with Brittany?

[492] No, with Burrough.

[493] Oh, it's practically criminal.

[494] It is.

[495] It is.

[496] It is.

[497] It is.

[498] It is not journalism.

[499] And I just remember, I mean, there's one interview, too, and I don't know who the interviewer is, but it's my mother and I. And my mother couldn't do anything without a couple of pops of something, right?

[500] Sure, sure, sure.

[501] So she was always drunk, right?

[502] So I could look at her face and know exactly.

[503] And they never wanted my answer, right?

[504] They never wanted the answer.

[505] They just, they wanted their point of view.

[506] Well, they had these competing narratives about you.

[507] One was you were being taken advantage of.

[508] Right.

[509] Well, they would say you're overtly sexual and you're some sexual tigris.

[510] And then also you're naive and you don't know what you're talking about when you answer.

[511] Right.

[512] It was like they give you some weird elevated status when you're in front of a camera.

[513] But then when you're on the couch, they're remembering you're 14 and now they're treating you like you're one.

[514] Right.

[515] Like they couldn't figure out what they were trying to say about you.

[516] No, and they were mad at themselves for not figuring it out and then taking it out on me. Yes.

[517] And there's two things that I saw recently, because I've been like painstakingly have to look at myself.

[518] But I watch this little sweet girl like stick up for her mom in this way.

[519] that there was one guy said something like, whatever the negative, it's negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.

[520] And you're just a blotchy face, you know, sloppy drunk.

[521] Oh my God.

[522] And they were doing the thing where they say, well, it's been written that.

[523] Oh, yeah.

[524] Some people will say you're prostituting your daughter.

[525] Right.

[526] So it leaves them out of it.

[527] And I say to, I interrupt him and I say, well, excuse me, but with regards to that, my mom has allergies.

[528] And you're just like, oh.

[529] Whoa, whoa, baby girl.

[530] Oh, my God.

[531] What a sweet baby, baby, girl, you know.

[532] And then other times, as I get a little bit older, you watch me say, no, that's not actually the way it was.

[533] And then they say, yeah, but come on, I mean, really.

[534] And you're, okay, let me say it this way.

[535] No. I thought how it was.

[536] And then finally, I say at one point, look, I don't really think you want to know my answer.

[537] Yeah, I saw that.

[538] I like that.

[539] This is my truth.

[540] And so, yeah, okay.

[541] hey, I don't know how else you need me to say this.

[542] That's the exact paradox.

[543] So all the heat generally, if I have the history correct, is that when you were 14 or 15, you did the Calvin Klein commercial.

[544] And she says in it, do you know what gets between me and my Calvin's nothing, some version of that.

[545] And the double entendre is that she's not wearing underwear.

[546] Right.

[547] And that's what adults are interpreting that is.

[548] But Brooke in the spot had no clue that that's right, which is fine and true.

[549] But then she would get in these interviews and they would.

[550] would go, you know what you were saying.

[551] And she would say, no, I didn't know.

[552] And then, so they're giving her all this credit that you were super savvy and you knew.

[553] You knew exactly what you were saying.

[554] They're almost like mad at her.

[555] All the controversy.

[556] Yes, all the controversy.

[557] So they would say you're McAvellian and now you're playing cute.

[558] You knew exactly what you were saying.

[559] So they discount what you told.

[560] And then they ask you a question and then they treat you like you're 12, that you wouldn't know anything.

[561] And it's like, make up your mind.

[562] Is she super savvy?

[563] Right.

[564] There's one other, I think a Carson show that I did.

[565] And it was maybe the third time I'd been on Carson or something like that.

[566] And he was always lovely to me. But he asks me, he says, if you were not an actress, what would you do?

[567] And I say something about, oh, I want to be a mom.

[568] And, well, I mean, no, no. But I mean, seriously, like, say, like, say tomorrow, it just all stopped.

[569] And I'd say, well, I don't know.

[570] And it comes out.

[571] No, no, no, really.

[572] Like, just say, like, you wake up and all of a sudden you're not famous and not an actress at all.

[573] Paul.

[574] And I looked at him and I said, wow, somebody really doesn't want me to be an actress.

[575] Yeah.

[576] Are you trying to tell me something?

[577] Yeah.

[578] Because I don't entertain that thought because why would you?

[579] Ask what's he going to do if he's not a talk show host tomorrow?

[580] I know.

[581] Yeah, no one asks an architect, what are you going to do tomorrow if you're not?

[582] You're like, well, I am one.

[583] Right.

[584] That's it.

[585] I don't deal with it.

[586] I have to imagine from your point of view, it's so complicated.

[587] And we just had Drew Barry Moron.

[588] And her takeaway from her many experiences is so specific and part of me loves it, which is like, yes, I shouldn't have been at Studio 54.

[589] No, nine -year -old should be at Studio 54.

[590] And I loved it.

[591] And I wouldn't take any of a way.

[592] So what's really tricky is if you're exploring this topic, what you don't want to come across as saying is like either that you were somehow ungrateful or that it's also your life.

[593] You're going to take away your life?

[594] That was your life.

[595] That was the one you got.

[596] I'm not going to take away any of the shit that happened to me in my childhood.

[597] Yeah.

[598] It's weirdly kind of an unanswerable question because it was your only life you have.

[599] Right.

[600] And the worst part about it, too, is now there's this, so you've got two daughters.

[601] Now, would you let, and you're just thinking, there is no way to answer this question without it being a headline that they want, which is Brooke would never let her.

[602] And then you try to sort of say, well, times are different.

[603] And do I want to see my 11 -year -old nude on a movie?

[604] No. But it's a different child.

[605] I'm a different person.

[606] And the experience for me was not traumatic.

[607] Right.

[608] And that's the piece that people can't seem to wrap their minds around, is that I didn't feel victimized or I wasn't traumatized.

[609] Right, but, well, you were certainly traumatized, but not in the way that maybe they're accusing you of being.

[610] The fact that you have to go defend this bit of work you've done that's become really popular in a manner as if you're on trial because you've committed a crime, that is a traumatic experience for a 14 -year -old or 15 -year -old.

[611] To be on national television, someone's fucking grilling you.

[612] 12.

[613] 12.

[614] It was so interesting because I remember thinking, one, I said I'm an actress.

[615] I also did a movie where I was killed.

[616] Why isn't people have a problem with that?

[617] You know what I mean?

[618] I understand sexuality is fraught.

[619] Very loaded.

[620] Loaded, fraught, and layered.

[621] But it always shocked me that nobody ever had a problem if I played a killer.

[622] I remember when I had my first press conference post first term college.

[623] And I was so excited to use bigger words and be more articulate.

[624] in a different way, and I had taken psych courses, and they were going to be proud of me. You know, America's sweetheart was now smart.

[625] You proved you have substance.

[626] Yeah, they didn't not like it.

[627] No, no, no. And I watched their face, and they were like, they, in fact, were doing what they were accusing other people.

[628] They were controlling me. You weren't fitting their narrative either time.

[629] No. You were supposed to be Lolita, and you weren't.

[630] And then you were supposed to be a dingbat, and you weren't.

[631] And can we postulate on what the anger was really about?

[632] I would argue that you represented for women the acknowledgement that men are fucking terrible, which we are, and they're attracted to youth.

[633] And we hate this about our society.

[634] Like I think it might have somehow encapsulated something that people don't even know how to recognize they feel.

[635] Like, what is this thing where older men are praying on younger girls?

[636] and like, oh, that's selling because men are shit heads like that.

[637] And I'm going to now take it out on you.

[638] You're the reason that my husband looked at that ad.

[639] You know, like, I think that's.

[640] Yeah, I think it's that deep.

[641] And I don't think they know it.

[642] Yeah, like, I don't know why Barbara Walters is pissed at you.

[643] She's a fucking 20 Emmy winning.

[644] At that time, she's an institution.

[645] And yet she's clearly agitated by the situation.

[646] And you have to ask yourself, why would Barbara Walters be upset by this?

[647] I think we can explore these eras in a way that, like, I'm actually not trying to skewer Barbara Walter.

[648] She was also living in 1980.

[649] Right.

[650] And she was, God knows what the fuck she went through to be Barbara Walters.

[651] Right.

[652] As a journalist at that time.

[653] So, like, I don't bring any of this up to condemn any human being that was swimming around in the pond at that time, but the fucking pond I want to talk about.

[654] Like, it was crazy.

[655] Yeah.

[656] As a mom, was she taking the mom tactic?

[657] there's jealousy, there's anger.

[658] It's such a difficult thing to really decipher.

[659] Yes, yes.

[660] I mean, go further.

[661] Like, that ad worked, right?

[662] So the ad got pulled immediately by a bunch of different places.

[663] Right.

[664] It was in headlines.

[665] It was on talk shows.

[666] The creative director of that ad said, if I don't become a topic on talk shows, I failed.

[667] So that was the mission.

[668] And you were 12.

[669] No, that was 15.

[670] She was a full, 15.

[671] I was old.

[672] Long in the tooth.

[673] The pretty baby was the first sort of firing squad that I...

[674] She played a prostitute, won the Palm door, yeah.

[675] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[676] Yeah, so that was probably to this day the best film I've ever been in, the most beautiful and just the most extraordinary.

[677] And they were angry that we were depicting a true story.

[678] Yeah.

[679] Do you ever talk to Jody Foster about this?

[680] Because I think she had a similar...

[681] I don't.

[682] I don't really know her.

[683] Yeah.

[684] She played in...

[685] Taxi driver.

[686] Taxi driver.

[687] She was a young girl.

[688] How can Natalie avoid this?

[689] Oh, so that's a great topic.

[690] Yes, I wanted to actually bring that up to you.

[691] Can we say one more thought on that?

[692] I think there's another element that's like, so those creative people were intentional with what happened.

[693] It caused controversy.

[694] But there were multiple commercials, and they set out to disrupt the advertising world and combine film and the photo, and have it be like.

[695] literary.

[696] They wanted literary references.

[697] Oh, wow.

[698] Shakespearean.

[699] They want science references with Darwin.

[700] You say like Shakespeare is to the mind, what Calvin is to the body, or something like that.

[701] Exactly.

[702] And there was a film director directing those, right?

[703] He had never done commercials.

[704] Well, it was Avedon who actually directed the commercials.

[705] Okay.

[706] But we had a cinematographer, and I mean, just the writers.

[707] It was all a very higher art concept caliber of people.

[708] Yes.

[709] And also overtly sexual.

[710] with a 15 -year -old there.

[711] Absolutely.

[712] And the first time we did a minute -long commercial that was to play in movie theaters.

[713] And no one had ever played commercials in movie theaters.

[714] And they pulled it because they said, well, they didn't pull it entirely, but they said commercials will never be seen in movies.

[715] And now you can go half an hour.

[716] You can't not see a commercial if you go to the movies.

[717] Plus, this is capitalism.

[718] Those fucking jeans sold 400 ,000 pairs a week for a year after the commercial.

[719] So we have to acknowledge that, hate it or love it, that's also our system.

[720] It's right in your face.

[721] So whatever anger you might have about the system is there, that you're now the face of.

[722] There's like a lot of societal things happening that you are the only face of.

[723] And the interesting thing was it was supposed to be a two -year contract, and I was signed to do the next campaign, and that didn't happen.

[724] And I came to realize it was confirmed in a way that the identification of me with the genes was more so than...

[725] Kelvin?

[726] Yeah.

[727] And that it almost backfired on them.

[728] It was as if there were people were coming in and asking for the Brook Shields jeans.

[729] Yes.

[730] And that was really not the goal.

[731] Right.

[732] So it was sort of a very fascinating journey that that...

[733] But they put you in that position and then we're like, Bye.

[734] And I was like, I thought I did a good job.

[735] Well, and obviously did.

[736] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[737] What's up, guys?

[738] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[739] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[740] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[741] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[742] And I don't mean just friends.

[743] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[744] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[745] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[746] We've all been there.

[747] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[748] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[749] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

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[754] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[755] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[756] Okay, so to bring up to speed on when we had Natalie on, there's this pretty well -worn trajectory of Mickey Mouse Club performers, which is their sexuality is very much kept from them.

[757] It's controlled and it's safe, and they're not allowed to express it.

[758] So when they get out of the Mickey Mouse Club, there's these explosions of sexuality.

[759] It's happened with many of the performers.

[760] Because Miley and with Timberlake and Brittany and Anguilera.

[761] they're reclaiming the sexuality that was kept from them by Disney.

[762] And now Natalie's the opposite.

[763] She's what you went through, which is she's sexualized at 13.

[764] And then so she naturally goes the opposite direction.

[765] Right.

[766] So she keeps hers real quiet from then on.

[767] And then later in her life started going like, oh, was that a reaction?

[768] So what I think is insane about all those examples is like, we think our sexuality might be innate to us.

[769] but these factors have such a predictable outcome that clearly you're going to respond.

[770] So if you're overly sexualized as a kid, I think it's going to make you tighten up your sexuality and keep it to you because it seems like everyone has a piece of it.

[771] Peace of it and an opinion about it and a knowledge of it.

[772] I shut it out and down and went so far the opposite way.

[773] And then it was easy because I was raised Catholic.

[774] So I could say...

[775] You could lean on that.

[776] I could lean on that.

[777] And that's why I'm waiting till marriage.

[778] Yeah.

[779] And that was what I said.

[780] And it was this sort of, well, it was an institution.

[781] It's a catch -all.

[782] Yeah, exactly.

[783] Yeah, you don't have to explain very much.

[784] No, just like Catholic Church, anything weird you say after that, we're like, oh, yeah, that sounds right.

[785] Yep.

[786] And so that was, so I had this great justification, and it was safe.

[787] And then there was this other thing that nobody wanted me to lose my virginity to them because it was too much pressure.

[788] Right, because you were nationally known as being a virgin.

[789] Right.

[790] I mean, she also went to Ivy League.

[791] Yeah.

[792] So Brooke went to Princeton.

[793] Yes, I did.

[794] And Natalie went to have it.

[795] She's just an interesting person to bring up because I remember looking at the trajectory of her career.

[796] And right after the professional, I think one of the first things she did was Anne Frank on Broadway.

[797] And took the Very smart, creative, Thespian steps.

[798] And it seemed like somebody had a plan or was educating her or maybe it was her and wherever, whatever was.

[799] So smart.

[800] I was going to say she's clearly brilliant.

[801] And so that was interesting to me. And I remember looking at it thinking, that's the right way to do it.

[802] That was the move.

[803] That was the move.

[804] And so I think I didn't go to university to do that.

[805] You've trained yourself not to say Princeton.

[806] Are you picking this up?

[807] All the Ivy leaders can't.

[808] Because it alienates people and I know, I'm busting you.

[809] It's like when assholes say they went to school in Boston.

[810] In Boston or New Jersey, I spoke at the commencement at Princeton.

[811] And one of the first things I said was like, don't say it like it's your middle name.

[812] Like Brooke Princeton Shields.

[813] I'm like, don't be that much of an asshole.

[814] But then it ends up being, do you remember that commercial?

[815] I went to Princeton, bitch.

[816] It's the rap where the woman says, um, She's on a date, and the guy, it's like one of the first sort of TikToks or whatever, the guy says, you know, oh, where'd you go to school?

[817] And she said, oh, I went to school in New Jersey.

[818] And he's like, oh, Rutgers?

[819] And she's like, oh, no, not really.

[820] And he goes, oh, well, did you play sports or something like that?

[821] And she says something and he grades it.

[822] And all of a sudden, she jumps up on the table.

[823] And she does this sort of wrap.

[824] I went to Princeton.

[825] I went to Princeton to prove people wrong.

[826] It was the thing that I wanted to do my whole life because I saw an Ivy League school.

[827] in a movie.

[828] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[829] That was, I was going to live in that.

[830] It was a fantasy.

[831] It was a fantasy that I had.

[832] When I looked at Natalie as a person and as a professional, I remember thinking, wow, someone is managing her well.

[833] Right.

[834] And what a smart move.

[835] Where as my career was all over the place.

[836] I mean, I was one thing, because my career was dictated by what could we do during my summer breaks because I never was going to miss school.

[837] Oh, wow.

[838] Through all that, Blue Lagoon, all of it.

[839] You never missed school.

[840] All of it.

[841] Do people hate your guts at school or did they love it?

[842] No, they really took me in under their wing and protecting from other people.

[843] That's nice.

[844] I always started off a little rocky, both in high school and college school, because I'm like the elephant in the room that's beyond.

[845] Well, I would have went to Princeton if I were you with a big chip on my shoulder that everyone thinks I'm dumb and I'm only here because I'm famous.

[846] Well, and they did.

[847] I mean, they thought that there was not going to be serious.

[848] And what happened was I got a, it was like a 300 level course that we had to take.

[849] It was multiple choice.

[850] So you either got it right or you got it wrong.

[851] Like, it wasn't an essay that you could argue.

[852] Bookshields was better.

[853] And I was one of three A's in the class.

[854] And the class had like 300 kids in it.

[855] That spread like wildfire, I bet.

[856] Well, you know what I did?

[857] I stood in the back and watched people.

[858] they would look at their grade and then they would look at the S's and they'd look at my grade.

[859] And I didn't even know what my grade was at that point.

[860] And I was like, get the fuck out of here.

[861] Oh, my God.

[862] So I went up to it and it was an A minus, I think it was.

[863] And I was like, that's funny.

[864] And so that changed the entire environment to me. They let me in, you know.

[865] But last about Natalie, we didn't have any of that.

[866] My mother didn't know what she was doing.

[867] We weren't saying, oh, she's going to be an actress.

[868] No, we would get a car if we did a movie.

[869] Yeah.

[870] We could buy a house that had a tree in New Jersey.

[871] Yeah.

[872] That's what our whole plan was.

[873] Yeah.

[874] How do you get that watch?

[875] Yeah, week to week.

[876] We didn't.

[877] That's what it was.

[878] And so it was like quality of life.

[879] So, oh, okay, we don't think that maybe there's a disconnect between doing a movie with a brilliant French director and then having a hair dryer with your name on it somehow is kind of going to work in concert yeah like you know by the way you were just early I was I was just saying now you can easily do it I was ahead of my time yeah it's true and so it's like wow would I still even be here if I was the Thespian that I go see the merchant ivory movies when I was a kid and look at all those and just dream and dream and dream and dream and then you become this famous like really famous thing.

[880] Too famous almost to even be in anything, really.

[881] Any.

[882] Anything.

[883] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[884] And then, well, I have to prove myself.

[885] People can't forget that it's me. So even if I audition, I'm not going to get it because they can't get past the me. So then I don't get it because I'm not talented.

[886] Yeah.

[887] And it's this crazy -ass cycle.

[888] That is why my world absolutely pivoted in the best possible way through comedy because it broke open my real world.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Which I had never been allowed to be in.

[891] Right.

[892] Because I looked a certain way.

[893] We're talking about Suddenly Suze.

[894] Suddenly Susan, like the Friends episode and then Susan.

[895] And I had done 27 Bob Hope shows on tour for the troops all over the world.

[896] Like before I even did anything.

[897] And that was my happy place.

[898] You know, sketch comedy.

[899] And that's a pretty good comedy troupe to be brought to school.

[900] And, I mean, you're learning from Don Rickles and Dean Martin and you're learning how to hold your own.

[901] I've learned how to tank a delivery because if I gave a delivery that was somehow better or funnier, it would get taken away from me. And the joke would get taken away from me because I was too.

[902] young for that type of a joke.

[903] And I would say, Bob, it killed.

[904] Like, it actually killed.

[905] The writers are even laughing.

[906] Come on.

[907] And he said, no, no, no, you're too young.

[908] You're too young.

[909] And I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to learn this game.

[910] So I would just tank everything.

[911] And then the minute the audience was in, it was like, bha -bang.

[912] And so it was this.

[913] You sandbagged.

[914] Yeah, sandbagged with the best of them.

[915] And it was the only area I could look a certain way, and be funny.

[916] That's right, yeah.

[917] Because you could forget that it was me if I was looking stupid or making fun of myself or falling off a bar stool or whatever the physical comedy was, you know.

[918] And it was also just this revelation.

[919] That's just what I want to do.

[920] I don't need the approval of being that thing.

[921] I would guess you're probably deciding it at that moment that you're going to live your life and not moms.

[922] Or the world.

[923] But mom having desired.

[924] social standing and cachet and fanciness.

[925] Right.

[926] Because we got all that.

[927] Right.

[928] And the thing is, she was one of the funniest people I had ever known and quick and dark and really funny.

[929] And so much of our life together was laughter.

[930] Right.

[931] I couldn't understand, and then I really could understand it, but how that was not the way my career was going.

[932] Yeah, because you're playing like sex fix.

[933] right and you're a virgin who loves comedy right yeah you're like in the wrong body i'm in the wrong everything yeah yeah what a weird what a weird feeling you're already at that age wrestling with identity in such a profound way i mean what a mind fuck it's a miracle you're not bonkers to be honest with you i mean we're doing this project and one of the things was it's amazing that i'm not a fuck up and i didn't have that fall and i think that what happened was i was so adamant about not being beaten by the system, that things like studying, going to school, doing really well, being fierce about succeeding in that world, gave me such a safe place to be in my head and writing a thesis and in school.

[934] And it was really important for me. And the friends and the people that I had around me, I mean, we never lived in California.

[935] We did Susan here.

[936] But as a kid, I never took the high school equivalency test and came out and was taught by studio teachers and thrown into that world.

[937] We were Manhattan.

[938] We were in New York.

[939] Yeah.

[940] We were like, I was like a straight kid and stayed in school and happened to work.

[941] I wrote my thesis on Pretty Baby, actually.

[942] And Louis Malin, his theme, the sort of loss of innocence and how he textually in his film shows it.

[943] And I remember also thinking, wow, though, you're still here after 40 years, would you still be here if you hadn't become the icon?

[944] Yeah, yeah.

[945] Would I still be sellable?

[946] There is a commodity aspect to who I became, the monetary value of being famous or whatever it is.

[947] On the one hand, it's restrictive because you can't get movies.

[948] unless you're the star or you're the lead in the sitcom.

[949] It's going to look weird if you're the fourth best friend in something.

[950] Yeah, and they're like, it's going to be weird and it's distracting.

[951] Yeah.

[952] Or you're not going to see me in a badge.

[953] But, you know, yeah, I love it.

[954] But it would have to be some weird spoof.

[955] So I get that.

[956] No one's going to H &R block and you start working on their taxes.

[957] No one should go to it.

[958] And stop your reading.

[959] But, you know, then it's like, then you kind of go like, oh, well, you're still.

[960] here and you're still making money.

[961] Like, yes, I've lost it all twice because my mom didn't handle things very well.

[962] Yeah.

[963] But there's a value to that that now I finally have fully appreciated it.

[964] Surviving in this racket is next to impossible.

[965] But also, yeah, it's okay to hold both things to say there was some fucked up stuff, but it also served me. And I can recognize both.

[966] I can call it out and see.

[967] say and it helped me and that's okay.

[968] It's okay for all those things to be happening at once.

[969] Yeah, I think people want you to levy a verdict on something.

[970] I know.

[971] And you can have a very dualistic feeling about all of it.

[972] You can.

[973] And that to me is the most honest piece of it.

[974] It's just hard for people to accept because it then says they are right or wrong in their opinion.

[975] Right.

[976] Right.

[977] And truth be told, their opinion is theirs.

[978] Well, I do think people confuse when I ask you a question and you give me an honest answer, they confuse that with you telling them how they should.

[979] And that's not what any of us are doing.

[980] But because you have a microphone in front of your face, something gets conflated in their mind that you're preaching this.

[981] Right.

[982] But it's not.

[983] You're telling me how you feel about it.

[984] Yeah.

[985] Yeah.

[986] And sometimes it's conflicting.

[987] Yes, of course.

[988] You know, I mean, it is, there is something.

[989] What did I really feel?

[990] You know, I mean, I lived in a survival mechanism.

[991] Yes.

[992] And somewhere along the line.

[993] as I have this amazing therapist that I've had for 30 years.

[994] And every time I come back, Chris goes, are you fixed?

[995] All done?

[996] You done?

[997] Wrap it up.

[998] Are we good?

[999] But at a certain point, she said, you know, when are you going to give yourself any credit for your character?

[1000] Somewhere in there, there is the person that chooses this instead of that.

[1001] Yeah, yeah.

[1002] Or chooses the good, the right, the positive.

[1003] Vegas odds on you becoming strong out and fucked.

[1004] or 90 to one.

[1005] I mean, truly, you have to recognize, like, what a act of survival.

[1006] The whole thing is.

[1007] Like, that's not locked that you ended up here.

[1008] Can I make an analogy?

[1009] It's probably going to make you uncomfortable, but I was molested.

[1010] I talk about it all the time, so I'm very comfortable talking about it.

[1011] I think one of the things that often survivors of sexual abuse wrestle with is that they may have enjoyed it.

[1012] Right, right.

[1013] That's like the cardinal thing they can't get past or they feel culpable because they enjoyed it.

[1014] Right.

[1015] And it's hard for them to go, like, well, you're.

[1016] you were nine you didn't know any of the right right and so i don't want to be too dramatic with your situation but it could also be that in some way it's like yeah that probably we wouldn't want that done to another 15 year old and also i enjoyed it and i don't want to feel guilty i enjoyed it and i don't want to have to right you know what i'm saying there's some weird i mean i don't know if i enjoyed the sexuality part of it as much well i don't think the sexuality part but i think the filming what i'm suggesting is the filming of the commercial was fun it was and you didn't know you were saying anything pervy.

[1017] And there's this great cinematographer and you like being in these things and you do a great job.

[1018] And now that other aspect is what you learn later, which is like, oh, that was sexual.

[1019] And I mean, okay, do you want to know what comes between me and my cabins?

[1020] That was the line, right?

[1021] So now I had a doll.

[1022] I had a dog.

[1023] I would say nothing comes between me and my blabby and my, you know, clipper or whatever.

[1024] So there was that, right?

[1025] There was also a real honest naivete that I did have, right?

[1026] I didn't think that the word come because it was written C -O -M -E in my script did I think it was come.

[1027] Yes, yes, yes.

[1028] It did not occur to me, right?

[1029] So, okay, I see that later and I think the ridiculousness of it, you know?

[1030] But I'll tell you what, I loved every minute of doing those commercials.

[1031] That's what I mean.

[1032] I got an A on a science test the next day after filming for 12 hours, because the question on the science test was, what is a gene?

[1033] And I was like, oh, genes are fundamental determining the characteristics of individual and responsible.

[1034] You know, it's like, blah, blah.

[1035] I wrote my whole minute -long commercial for Darwin's survival of the fittest.

[1036] Yeah, G -E -N -E.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] And I got a A plus.

[1039] Oh, my gosh.

[1040] And I remember thinking, fuck you, Hollywood.

[1041] You think that this is going to destroy me?

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Guess what?

[1044] It just got me an A. So what are you going to do with that?

[1045] I'm an actress.

[1046] And I did well in my test because of my acting.

[1047] But I think that I enjoyed all of it.

[1048] I went on the set, Pretty Baby, the days that I didn't work.

[1049] Yeah, of course.

[1050] Because they were my family.

[1051] Also, you're 12.

[1052] You now have a skill that adults actually appreciate.

[1053] They're not pandering to you anymore.

[1054] You're really delivering in a movie, and they're grateful for it.

[1055] Like, all you want is a kid.

[1056] As approval.

[1057] And for something, some skill that, because you feel the pandering.

[1058] Like, oh, look, Mom, I jumped over this thing.

[1059] Oh, great.

[1060] We know Mom didn't think that was so impressive.

[1061] Right.

[1062] But this is legit.

[1063] You have a skill.

[1064] People are enjoying and benefiting from them being happy about and grateful.

[1065] And I often came up against very insecure, older actresses and actors.

[1066] And I got the brunt of that.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] And in every case, I was the star of the movie.

[1069] And I was a big three.

[1070] Yeah.

[1071] And I watched that and felt it and felt crushed, but then learned and thought to myself, I'm never going to let myself feel that way.

[1072] Right.

[1073] Yeah, it's dark.

[1074] It's fucking dark.

[1075] It's dark and it's sort of shattering if you like movie stars.

[1076] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1077] Some level I have compassion for them.

[1078] Minimally for men and women, at least, it's the least just system of all time, which is like, we render y 'all sexless after 40.

[1079] Right, right.

[1080] So when that older actress is looking at the younger actress, it's not just imagined.

[1081] They are allowed to be sexual, and now I am not.

[1082] Right.

[1083] Which is, that's dark.

[1084] I mean, that's the system.

[1085] And Pretty Baby was all about that.

[1086] I mean, it was about this young, newbile, new meat, you know.

[1087] And the mother, not wanting to acknowledge being the mother.

[1088] and making her, her sister, calling her her sister so that she could get the ticket out and being jealous of the freshness and the attention.

[1089] And she was sort of like the old prostitute, even though she wasn't, she's gorgeous.

[1090] But in hindsight, because I ended up studying it, it was fascinating to me. Well, but the first up is, oh, that woman's terrible.

[1091] That's the lazy conclusion.

[1092] It's like, that woman's terrible.

[1093] But then you go above that and you go, That woman is a victim of this fucking system.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] That's the real enemy.

[1096] But that's what I saw at a very young age and did not want to be victimized by that.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] So I remember thinking, uh -uh, I'm not going to let myself be there, feel that, do that, because I will be destroyed.

[1099] Yes.

[1100] And it's hard enough to be an actress past the age of 12.

[1101] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] You know, so I think.

[1104] Yeah, but I think I saw so much of it.

[1105] I saw bad behavior and I also saw insecurity and I saw it just so much.

[1106] And I saw people fall in love on movie sets and their lives got destroyed.

[1107] Sure, sure.

[1108] As they should.

[1109] Everyone should ruin something on a movie set or you weren't in show business.

[1110] I know.

[1111] But also how ironic that you spent time in your life fantasizing about the world and you got to see it so head on.

[1112] no one more immersed than you and like still you have some fantasy about it i think that's beautiful i maintain it didn't ruin it for you no i love room tone oh yeah sure yeah yeah yeah you do room tone it's like you're a part of a unit everybody's together and everybody's quiet just so everyone knows when you're filming a movie because of sound editing they often have to just get the sound of the room without any talking and often it's at the end of a scene they'll go okay everyone hold for room tone and then 60 of you sit there quietly which is almost impossible a long minute or so.

[1113] Yeah, which feels like 25 minutes.

[1114] I know.

[1115] And it's so great, though, to feel that collective, like, energy.

[1116] Yeah.

[1117] And I love montage.

[1118] If I could live in montage, I would just, I think it's because I was so young and I had such a fantasy world and my mind from watching movies.

[1119] It was the perfect escape.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] So I still wanted movies to be like that.

[1122] I still wanted life to be like that.

[1123] Yeah, of course.

[1124] You're a romantic.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] I'm a romantic.

[1127] And I'm an actress.

[1128] Stay tuned.

[1129] for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1130] We're going to talk about a castle for Christmas, but there's one thing I want to talk about just before we do that, which is I hope and maybe it is, in fact, you're getting the credit you deserve.

[1131] And I don't think this occurred to me till today.

[1132] There are a lot of heroes now of mental health.

[1133] There are people that have spoken out when it was hard to do so.

[1134] Athletes will get famous for doing it, and I applaud it because that's a rough place.

[1135] to do it as a man and all these things and I could be wrong on this I think you're the canary in the coal mine I think you're the very first person that was like I'm going to be dead honest about this I have postpartum I'm destroyed by it I had to go on medicine it saved my life and you couldn't write what happened like if I'm writing this story so brooks are going to be honest about her postpartum people are going to be judgmental of that it's so brave what she's doing and I'm like would it be too much to cast Tom Cruise as the adversary in this that's too much we can't bring in Tom Cruise, like the most beloved movie star in the world.

[1136] We can't make him the bad guy because she can't triumph in that situation.

[1137] And you did!

[1138] I will never forget what you said, just to remind everyone.

[1139] You wrote a great book about the experience called Down Came the Rain.

[1140] Up to that point, no one's been that honest about it, I don't think.

[1141] That's in the public eye and the manner that you were.

[1142] And then Tom Cruise comes out, and you guys are probably past us up, so I don't even mean to pour fire on it.

[1143] But, The fact that he decided to take aim at your career, I mean, what a shithead.

[1144] And then, do you remember Brooks' response?

[1145] No. He should focus on fighting aliens and let mothers decide how they want to deal with much.

[1146] Yes.

[1147] That's like, exactly.

[1148] What a fucking burn.

[1149] That was like such a knockout punch that I think he won 80ed after that.

[1150] He ended up 180 and didn't he?

[1151] Publicly, he did.

[1152] Well, he didn't do it publicly.

[1153] He did it privately.

[1154] Oh, okay, okay.

[1155] I sold everybody that it was, yeah, yeah, okay.

[1156] Fine.

[1157] But I think that's part of that knockout punch was fucking, it was clean, it was on the chin, it was like had some comedy in it.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] You didn't seem too butt hurt about it.

[1160] Wow.

[1161] I just want to applaud you because I think like I've spoken a ton about being an addict.

[1162] I've talked about me and lost it.

[1163] I've talked about all these things and it's not lost on me that the road had been paved a bit by several people and you're probably the first.

[1164] So it's fucking gangster.

[1165] Oh, thank you.

[1166] It was the right time in the right place.

[1167] But did you have, you must have had the fear.

[1168] Like, I had the fear when I admitted I relapse, which was like, we're going to lose sponsors.

[1169] These people that believe in me aren't going to believe in me. Like, I set up a whole story for why that was going to be suicidal for me professionally, which none of it was true.

[1170] But in my head, it seemed convincing.

[1171] There had to be some party that was like, I'm going to do this, and then I'm going to be labeled crazy.

[1172] And that's going to be a rap on me. I actually thought that I was going to be not labeled crazy, but, oh, life must be so hard for this celebrity who's, pretty and yeah yeah like oh it must be really oh poor baby you know yeah and what do we need another fucking celebrity on a soapbox like do we really need that yeah and this self -indulgent aspect of it to me that's what I was scared of I have a same one like if I talk about being molested I'm like I can hear every dude from a playground going like how much attention do you need how much sympathy do you need like I'm mining for some kind of sympathy you're nuts about them no it's about that it just is like it's so I also was showing that I was made to feel like I was the only person in the world that had gone through it.

[1173] I was like, why isn't anybody talking about this?

[1174] How come they don't ask the mom what she's going through?

[1175] It's all about the baby.

[1176] And then you've got the baby, and it's all about the baby.

[1177] And yes, it has to be about the baby and, you know, inoculations and all that.

[1178] But no one is finding out how mom is.

[1179] And, I mean, to the level that I was just devastated, they would have really been helpful if someone said, hey, this happens.

[1180] You had seven, you did it seven rounds, right?

[1181] The amount of drugs that are in your system, hormonally, and what you're doing.

[1182] And you almost died on the table.

[1183] There's so much blood loss.

[1184] And you went from high, high, high estrogen to nothing.

[1185] Yeah.

[1186] Well, that would have been helpful.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] I would have understood that my brain actually was being affected by all of this.

[1189] Just the biochemical of it.

[1190] So then when I pitched the...

[1191] You know, you have to pitch it to books and stuff.

[1192] And they were like, well, you're willing to say all this?

[1193] I'm like, no, I'm going to write only part of it in a book.

[1194] And I just knew that I had to do it because I had a daughter.

[1195] And also, my whole life has been sort of talked about, you know, my dentist appointments or filmed.

[1196] It was like the first reality personality.

[1197] And it's like, oh, she got her period.

[1198] And it's on the cover of People magazine.

[1199] It's like, really?

[1200] Okay, so you sort of grow up going, hmm, all right, how am I going to make this not make me a victim?

[1201] What am I going to do?

[1202] What am I going to do?

[1203] And it's like, I'm going to get the first and the last word.

[1204] Kind of like your mom leaving your dad.

[1205] In some ways in that same way.

[1206] Like, I'm taking control.

[1207] Writing it myself, making sure that everybody knew I penned it.

[1208] I didn't want anybody else to feel how lonely I felt.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] And not everybody had the support system.

[1211] But there's a layer to yours that makes it more difficult, which is if I'm to come out and say I'm bipolar tomorrow, that doesn't carry the weight of my gender with it.

[1212] So crowning fucking gender -specific quality we give to women is that they are mothers, they nurture, they're supposed to do this perfect.

[1213] I mean, it is the fucking bedrock of being female.

[1214] Yeah.

[1215] So to actually say, I feel detached, I don't feel like I'm connected.

[1216] You know, like all those things are the, that's the most dangerous thing I think, I don't even wise that a woman could admit to.

[1217] Well, that's why it was so devastating to feel because it's the only thing that I've known for sure that I wanted to do.

[1218] I mean, I just saw it on Carson.

[1219] I want to be a mom.

[1220] Right.

[1221] I want to be a mother.

[1222] And I was like 13 or something.

[1223] So the one thing I've known for sure, I would be normal, right?

[1224] Because nothing else in my life was really normal, but I could be normal.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] And everybody's done it.

[1227] And the people have been doing it since the dawn of time.

[1228] In the woods.

[1229] Yeah.

[1230] And hair cascading down and the baby looking up at the mom and the Madonna and all of it.

[1231] And all of a sudden, I didn't fit any of the categories that would constitute being a woman.

[1232] female, a person.

[1233] I was failing on every level.

[1234] Well, you just said you had IV, so you're entering the process going like, why, something's wrong with me. Yeah, something's wrong with me. And, oh, of course, I'm not allowed to be normal.

[1235] Of course, I'm Bert Shields.

[1236] You're not allowed to have a normal baby and have like a thing.

[1237] Like, no, that's why you've had such a crazy, incredible life.

[1238] Yes.

[1239] You don't deserve that as well.

[1240] No. So you can imagine all of it that went into it.

[1241] And then to be so miserable and disconnected when you could have given me anybody else's baby and it was like my body just became that baby's mom.

[1242] Like it was even just growing up, babies fell asleep in my arms.

[1243] Babies instantly calmed it down in my arms.

[1244] Like I was like the baby whisper.

[1245] So then to have my own baby and be voiceless, forget a whisper.

[1246] Yeah.

[1247] It was really.

[1248] That's so hard.

[1249] scary.

[1250] So many people experience so many people.

[1251] And you're right, there are levels of bravery because, yes, you're a celebrity and you're telling your story and that's its own scariness, but then just to even admit that something's really wrong is really brave, like there's so many parts to it that are hard.

[1252] I also just really was, I kind of got mad that it was discounted.

[1253] Oh, it's the baby blues.

[1254] No, that's a cartoon.

[1255] Baby blues is a cartoon.

[1256] This is not, there's nothing animated about this.

[1257] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1258] You're just like, but wait, this isn't fair.

[1259] You can't make me feel this bad about myself on top of feeling this bad.

[1260] Mm -hmm.

[1261] So it became this sort of thing that I had to do.

[1262] Right.

[1263] It was your purpose.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] Wow.

[1266] Okay.

[1267] Thank you.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] So you have a movie coming out, a Christmas movie.

[1270] I do have a Christmas.

[1271] Called a Castle for Christmas that's on Netflix.

[1272] November 26.

[1273] Okay.

[1274] You shot in Scotland?

[1275] Yes.

[1276] We had the transport team from Outlander.

[1277] so I got to pump all of them for information.

[1278] And so I was very happy.

[1279] Did you get some inside secrets?

[1280] No, no. And I didn't want them.

[1281] I was like, I do not want.

[1282] But I lived in this little house that was right down from Lali Brahe.

[1283] So I was like, my God, I was like one of those crazy, ridiculous fans.

[1284] Yeah, you were getting to live in a show you like.

[1285] And I lived in the carriage house of a castle, of a neighboring castle.

[1286] Really?

[1287] So I would look out and I would just see the pole castle.

[1288] You can imagine where my brain went.

[1289] I mean, I was wrapping myself and tartan and having whiskey and a weed jam and loved whiskey and just the blankets.

[1290] It was just, it was unbelievably fun and beautiful and horses and knitters.

[1291] Because you went from the worst place during Corona, which is New York City.

[1292] That was the most gruesome.

[1293] The epicenter of it.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] And then you go there and I have to imagine some level you were able to forget.

[1296] about it quite often.

[1297] Yeah.

[1298] I mean, and it was beautiful.

[1299] The cows were incredible.

[1300] And I think that what Netflix was doing, which I was really, I just feel so blessed to be a part of it, is this section of Netflix, right?

[1301] It's more family.

[1302] And this particular executive said this whole sector wants to concentrate on women over, let's say, 40 years.

[1303] Older women or who have older kids.

[1304] Yeah.

[1305] And that they're empowered and they don't need to be saved.

[1306] That there are these independent women in this unbelievably brilliant stage of their lives.

[1307] And they're pivoting and they're changing.

[1308] But they're not looking for a man. So that was the initial attraction.

[1309] I mean, I hate to make it this basic, but they're still alive.

[1310] Right.

[1311] No, no. And they're vibrant and it's a rom -com.

[1312] You are a novelist.

[1313] You go to buy a castle in Scotland for, I don't know what reason.

[1314] I go to Scotland because my dad was when he was a little kid.

[1315] His father was a caretaker.

[1316] I grew up hearing about it.

[1317] You find his name engraved on a door at some point.

[1318] All of it.

[1319] It's a perfect rom -com.

[1320] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1321] It's like, you know how it's going to end, but it's so good.

[1322] You have to have the feels, right?

[1323] I didn't really know what that meant I'm now learned.

[1324] But it's that I just wanted to be a part of something that was fun and pretty and works out.

[1325] And there's horses we ride, horses, there's castles, there's a pub.

[1326] You got to live in a simpler time in the most complex time in our history.

[1327] Absolutely.

[1328] And it was such a reprieve to be in that environment.

[1329] Were you able to tap in it all to some carry -a -wells?

[1330] Like, you must have loved Princess Bride.

[1331] Yeah, of course.

[1332] So were you able to like, that we all share in this fantasy thing, were you able to go like, oh, yeah, I'm going to really hone in on the fact that this is, what was his name in Princess Bride?

[1333] It doesn't matter.

[1334] It wasn't the name in Princess Bride.

[1335] She calls him, boy?

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] As you wish?

[1338] Did he ever say as you wish?

[1339] All the time.

[1340] As you wish.

[1341] I was like, okay, you're not allowed to say it today.

[1342] But you know, it was interesting.

[1343] We talked very deeply about it, actually.

[1344] Uh -huh.

[1345] Because he has such an identification with it.

[1346] With Princess Bride.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] And this was the first rom -com he did since then.

[1349] Oh, no kidding.

[1350] And I think he sort of did that thing where he assumes that's what you're going to think only of him.

[1351] Yes.

[1352] Oh, and I just fucking confirmed his fear.

[1353] Yeah, I blew it.

[1354] I've stopped doing it now.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] But I used to be self -deprecating immediately about a Blue Lagoon or saying something like, well, I'm not in a line club to diffuse it immediately, right?

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] Because you've had the conversation every day for 40 years.

[1359] Yeah, you don't really resent it, but you do resent it.

[1360] And so I watched him have that.

[1361] And one day I took him aside.

[1362] And I was like, you do know you don't have to do that.

[1363] Right, right, right, right.

[1364] And it was really a bonding.

[1365] It was a very sort of sweet because we both went, man, we pushed that button really fast.

[1366] Yes.

[1367] It's funny.

[1368] You know Bradley.

[1369] Cooper.

[1370] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1371] So he's a very, very close to us and our family.

[1372] And we basically see him every morning.

[1373] Oh, my God.

[1374] You do.

[1375] Oh, wow.

[1376] That's a nice face to see it.

[1377] Is Chris nervous?

[1378] He and Chris love each other so much.

[1379] It's like I come down and are you nervous?

[1380] I guess it's a better question.

[1381] So I did a movie with him a long time ago.

[1382] Which one?

[1383] Midnight meat train.

[1384] Do you know there's a deep cut just not to interrupt you?

[1385] There's a deep cut in Silver Lining Playbook where Bradley's got a scene where he's walking down the street.

[1386] David O. Russell put Midnight Meet Train plane on the marquee.

[1387] Oh, my God.

[1388] I'm surprised I didn't.

[1389] Deep cut.

[1390] Okay.

[1391] I saw it.

[1392] I went to the premiere of them.

[1393] I did.

[1394] Good friend.

[1395] Anyway, we get into very deep conversation stations.

[1396] And so, like, I'll come down the stairs and I'll just smell the coffee and then I'll be like, okay.

[1397] So then Chris will say, hey, babe.

[1398] And then I wait.

[1399] And then I hear, hey, babe.

[1400] It's this, like, schick that they have, right?

[1401] But he says something very interesting to me once.

[1402] He said, I watch you walk into rooms with people, and you immediately, and this is a while ago, but do the thing where you either cut yourself down or make fun of yourself or self -deprecate because you assume they're going to.

[1403] And he said, they're not thinking that of.

[1404] you.

[1405] Right.

[1406] And you know how he analyzes.

[1407] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1408] Everything.

[1409] He broke through to you.

[1410] Yeah, because I had brought it up.

[1411] I made myself extremely vulnerable and we were just talking about something.

[1412] And so the fact - Is this post -coital or?

[1413] It was part of the pre.

[1414] Okay, I was part of the, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, he works that way.

[1415] He wants to be emotionally connected.

[1416] Yeah, he likes to be emotionally connected.

[1417] He likes to be present.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] It was really interesting to hear from someone I had worked with and know.

[1420] know and new.

[1421] Well, you're a trust with.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] I wanted to hear his opinion.

[1424] And I thought, wow, God, I do that.

[1425] He's incredibly astute observer of a lot of things.

[1426] He's given me some of my biggest breakthroughs in the way I worked through my fears and my insecurities.

[1427] Like, he can cut right through the truth.

[1428] It's uncut.

[1429] It's scary.

[1430] I mentioned it before, but when I was debating whether or not to be honest, about having relapsed, he's the one who said to me, he said, what's your fear?

[1431] And I said, well, all these people identify with me as being sober.

[1432] And I really value that.

[1433] Like, I love being someone that people tweet and say, I've got three months or I've got six months.

[1434] Like, it's so much of my self -esteem.

[1435] And he said, okay, but I think the self -esteem's coming from the fact that you're helping people, right?

[1436] And I said, yeah, I'd like to think so.

[1437] And he said, well, if you're sincere about that, what's incredibly helpful is someone with 16 years who fucking relapsed.

[1438] That's helpful.

[1439] Right.

[1440] You having 16 years and being married to Kristen Bell and being rich isn't helping a fucking person.

[1441] And I was like, you're dead right.

[1442] That's exactly right.

[1443] And if I'm true about this claim that I want to help, yeah, I have to do this.

[1444] Like, he just cut right through it for me. Yeah.

[1445] And we were mid -fucking, I think.

[1446] Yeah, I think he was mid.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] Yeah.

[1450] Oh, wow.

[1451] That's late for him.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] Yeah.

[1454] Well, and having lived it and being sober and being really, really living it, like, he's very intense about all of that.

[1455] And I appreciated it because it was somebody who I do respect and did have in my life in different parts of my personality and times.

[1456] But I'm going to go a step further.

[1457] So I think why you did that, the same reason you say you go to school in New Jersey, is like, you're not dumb.

[1458] So you're recognizing that you trigger in people feeling less than.

[1459] I'm not as beautiful as this woman.

[1460] I'm as tall as this woman.

[1461] I didn't go to that school.

[1462] So for a long time, you're right.

[1463] So you're trying to counteract that.

[1464] And you're trying to make people feel at ease.

[1465] Right.

[1466] But the bigger point is like, you're prioritizing them being at ease over you.

[1467] Always.

[1468] Right.

[1469] And that's what no one deserves.

[1470] And that's where you cannot live for your whole life.

[1471] I mean, better late than never.

[1472] But I recently just had a very severe break.

[1473] I broke my femur.

[1474] Oh, my God.

[1475] That's the worst point of day?

[1476] Yeah, right at the hip.

[1477] Fall off a skyscraper?

[1478] I fell off of Bradley Cooper.

[1479] I fell off of Bradley Cooper.

[1480] Super sex swing?

[1481] I told him that thing was mounted too high.

[1482] That was possible.

[1483] You should put some mats.

[1484] You should put some mats under that thing.

[1485] God, what a visual.

[1486] So I'm on the ground.

[1487] Uh -huh.

[1488] And the paramedics are there.

[1489] Oh, my God.

[1490] I'm in the gym.

[1491] They're worried about internal bleeding.

[1492] And the paramedics were fighting.

[1493] Oh, great.

[1494] And I finally scream.

[1495] Oh, my God.

[1496] And I'm like, hey.

[1497] And they're like, I go, did you two just meet or do you hate each other?

[1498] And they said, oh, no, we just met.

[1499] I said, good.

[1500] The beauty of just meeting someone is, you don't actually know if you hate them.

[1501] So you guys are going to fucking get along and get me out of here and get me to a hospital.

[1502] And I said it just like that.

[1503] And then they had to go through the paperwork at some point, right?

[1504] So they were asking me my name.

[1505] So I tell him my name.

[1506] And I go into schick on the ground.

[1507] Sure, sure, sure.

[1508] And I say it now.

[1509] And I'm like, oh, you might have seen a little movie in the water called, well, look.

[1510] but this hand comes on my shoulder and squeezes it so hard and it's my trainer and he grabs my shoulder and he goes hey look at me and I looked at him and he goes you do not have to do that and I burst into tears and it was such an interesting moment because I was deflecting deflecting deflecting make them feel that it's funny oh look at me I'm funny and you know I know you know me I'm going to make a video and I thought and it was like this cathartic this sort of permission to drop it to just drop the stick stop I had to survive they couldn't fit me in the elevator they had to bring me standing up too hot yeah yeah one of the regulations it was a elevator for civilians yeah oh man that's crazy what a fucking like I love how literally it got like you're done virtually and you're still doing the goddamn shtick.

[1511] Still doing it.

[1512] I think a lot of us can relate to that.

[1513] Well, but everyone's doing something to protect themselves.

[1514] Well, I think people do when they elevate in their social class from their friendship group.

[1515] I think it becomes incumbent upon them.

[1516] I know I do this a ton.

[1517] So I got a really, really fucking nice car.

[1518] No one should ever have this car.

[1519] But I love cars and I got this car.

[1520] Right.

[1521] And so I found myself for the first year owning it anytime a friend would be like, oh my God, what's that car?

[1522] Like I would go, oh my God, you know, you got to cover it in this clear coat.

[1523] As soon as you pick it up, they tell you, like, you have to cover it in this clear code.

[1524] So I have, like, a list of things I complain about the car, like, in some attempt to go, like, well, it's not as great as you think it is because I'm ashamed that I have this thing and they don't.

[1525] And I'm like, I ruin everything I have or accomplished because I'm trying to make everyone else feel fucking comfortable about it.

[1526] And I don't actually enjoy anything because I've got to figure out the five negative things about it.

[1527] So I don't feel like a dick when I'm talking about it.

[1528] It's so unbelievably true.

[1529] And I think Chris will say, why are you doing that?

[1530] He's like, you live in a really nice house.

[1531] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1532] Why cut it down and say, well, it's not really all paid off yet?

[1533] Yeah.

[1534] And, you know, it's on the noisiest street in the village.

[1535] Yeah, and you're just like, when do you enjoy anything?

[1536] Well, and the irony is if you do that, which I've been on the other side of with Dax a couple times.

[1537] I'm like, those people are now thinking that you're an ungrateful asshole, like that you can't see that you have this insane car now you're complaining about it you're a victim like so either way you kind of can't win either way so you might as well just enjoy it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean I pray to go like yeah I got that motherfucking car they only made a thousand bitch look at me I got this fucking car I came from a dirt road in Michigan I mean I wish I could what's the happy medium yeah because I'm trying to live in it now we're all doing it okay will you tell me a little bit about beginning as now I will I started beginning is now it's been launched, it was about a month ago.

[1538] And it's a 360 degree platform for women over 40.

[1539] It's a well -being platform.

[1540] Right.

[1541] So I wanted to build the community first because after a certain age there's no representation for you.

[1542] Right.

[1543] We're not marketed to.

[1544] We are not allowed to be sexy.

[1545] We are discounted.

[1546] The minute our ovaries don't work.

[1547] We are no longer viable, right?

[1548] So every woman that I know, and there's some, I know the most incredible women are all over 40 and they've all pivoted.

[1549] They all are sexier, more confident, stronger, no bullshit.

[1550] They don't worry about the same things.

[1551] They've lived.

[1552] They're deciding completely new careers.

[1553] They're starting new companies.

[1554] They're learning new things.

[1555] The vitality in them is something that's not addressed.

[1556] And so it's either your 20s or you're wearing depends.

[1557] And there's this white space and it's right there.

[1558] And it makes me crazy.

[1559] Because guess what?

[1560] I go to a makeup store and it's all for 20s.

[1561] Now, but we've done a lot of research because we can't be put in a box, right?

[1562] So we're 25 % of the population between 40 and 6 years, 40 million women over 40 or 50, I think.

[1563] And we assume, oh, they're just going to go to the younger brands.

[1564] Well, we have to because there's nothing for us, right?

[1565] But we're married, single, parents, not parents, mothers, grandmother's partnered, never married, all of these things.

[1566] We are a diverse group.

[1567] Right.

[1568] And nobody knows how to to market to us, right?

[1569] And it made me really mad.

[1570] And I said, I don't understand.

[1571] Right, when I start feeling like I'm really beginning in my life to be you to be me unapologetically exactly and fierce about it and happy and fun and like I'm owning my sexuality but in ways that I never did why why am I told I'm done like I am not over I'm just beginning so I started the platform yeah and the community built so quickly and so many women are like there's nothing like this we can't believe it oh my god why is it that you're just crusty and crunchy and old and you metapause and Or what about, oh my God, I'm freer.

[1572] I would imagine, like, it's crazy to me that products aren't specifically geared towards y 'all because I have to imagine, like, economically you're in a better place and you're in your 20s.

[1573] Independently stable.

[1574] And if you've already raised kids, maybe it's now time that you have time and you want to focus on you?

[1575] I mean, it seems really fertile for.

[1576] And hold the purse strings.

[1577] Like, control 80 % of the spending in the household.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] Really, really have this independence and this sort of vibrance and this sort of, you know, vivacious quality and game and ready and experienced.

[1580] You know, you want to get something done.

[1581] You give it to like a mom who can multitask who now they're going back into the workforce after 18 years or plus of raising kids, leaving these big power jobs and then going and raising kids.

[1582] And then kids go to college and they're like, well, what now?

[1583] I'm kind of really just in my 30s.

[1584] And so I launched beginning as now.

[1585] it was so quick to get traction and gain.

[1586] That is awesome.

[1587] But everybody wants to buy something.

[1588] And I didn't want to start off with just selling anything.

[1589] We made t -shirts and sweatshirts just to get the message out.

[1590] And they're unbelievably delicious sweatshirts with really cool graphics on them.

[1591] And now everybody wants me to go into all these different categories.

[1592] So that's what we are.

[1593] She'll give you some tips for sure.

[1594] You know, Gwyneth is, though, what was so brilliant about Goop is that it did pave the way for this type of a thing.

[1595] But she's very content forward.

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] Whereas we really do want to go into e -commerce and have purposeful products that actually solve problems that women, like me, need to be solved, you know, and want those answers and want to talk about it.

[1598] And it's definitely an empowered place that we just believe that women really start to come into their.

[1599] own and that they should live bigger.

[1600] I now, which is strange, but and I've said this to Cooper too, I've said, I now am starting to walk into the room as Brookshields.

[1601] Yeah, yeah.

[1602] Like, as my full self, it took decades to be able to own all of it.

[1603] And by the way, if you don't have the confidence to do that.

[1604] And that's the message too.

[1605] It's that I want women to, in particular, who've given so much of their life to all these other things and reasons.

[1606] Your biological clock, your marriage, your friendships, it's your turn and time.

[1607] Yeah.

[1608] And to bring this all the way back to where we started, which was like movies are the original Instagram, because you don't see any people embarking on sagas and stories that are older, you don't have an example.

[1609] So you really think, fuck, 56, it's over.

[1610] Right.

[1611] Like, I did what I can do, and now it's over.

[1612] Like, and part of it is that representation because, like, you're not even seeing those stories that would lead you to believe that you're, like, fucking halfway there and you can do everything you've done in the first half, you could do again.

[1613] And I get it.

[1614] The 20s are the sexy web, but I just did the Kelly Clarkson show and Kirsten Dunst was on the show.

[1615] And we were talking about this, and she said, she was like, you know, God, you even think as an actress, like, well, I better hurry up and just get to, she had on me. Aaron's age because right now there's nothing.

[1616] I can't do really a lot more here.

[1617] They don't want me now.

[1618] Right.

[1619] But you can be the sage grandma at some point.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] And you're just like, no, no. God.

[1622] I mean, that's what I loved about doing this rom -com because it was this single mom in her 50s, kids off to college, and she's kind of like, what now?

[1623] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1624] And embarks on this journey and the sexuality to it.

[1625] Like, I definitely now feel my sexuality in a way.

[1626] Right.

[1627] Proud of my body.

[1628] my curves and all of those things that were considered bad when I was younger because I didn't fit into sample clothes and never fit into sample sizes and therefore that's why I can't do runway.

[1629] Right.

[1630] No, you're just the neck uprook.

[1631] You're the cover girl.

[1632] You're not the body, right?

[1633] So there's all these weird, but I mean, those are the messages you get.

[1634] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1635] It's just so great, but it is.

[1636] I mean, it is.

[1637] I love watching Monica processes.

[1638] It's horrible.

[1639] It is.

[1640] But it's just the human fucking condition.

[1641] going away, you know.

[1642] So my response to it is beginning is now.

[1643] Well, it's really cool because, yeah, because, like, I would say, like, Reese is doing such incredible things on the film and television side.

[1644] There's a handful actresses that are really, I think, breaking this paradigm, which is great.

[1645] Yeah, and to see it on a lifestyle front and a wellness front is also awesome.

[1646] So I think there's, like, all these splintering, wonderful things that are kind of hopefully going to coalesce.

[1647] And it's not like, hear me roar.

[1648] It's, we love the men in our lives.

[1649] We love all of it, you know, and I don't, I mean, a wellness platform.

[1650] She didn't say the man in her life.

[1651] She said the men in her life.

[1652] It is confirmed.

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] You're really hung up, but, yeah, you're not going to be able to let that go.

[1655] Oh, it feels like I have two.

[1656] Literally.

[1657] It's like, you're starting to dress the same.

[1658] Sure, sure.

[1659] They wear the same, like, they'll each like something and then buy the other one.

[1660] Oh, my God.

[1661] Shoes and there's a jacket and whatever.

[1662] And I'm like, oh, my God.

[1663] God, you guys, like, it's so browing out.

[1664] It's so funny.

[1665] It's cute.

[1666] We don't have to worry about feeling youthful because we never pass 12.

[1667] That's our great secret, if you guys want it.

[1668] Us men.

[1669] We don't ever mature above 12, so it's like really easy to hold on to our youth.

[1670] It's really, it's really easy.

[1671] Oh, Lord.

[1672] God, but anyway, so this is the first time that I've ever started anything.

[1673] I signed on a CEO line the other day.

[1674] I couldn't believe it.

[1675] I was, I'm usually like, talent or performer.

[1676] You're the lender of your services.

[1677] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1678] I'm the boss, and it's the real deal, though.

[1679] And it's the real deal.

[1680] And to learn the business world, it is wild to sit in these rooms, to sit with men who are these executives.

[1681] And then you sit with women who are these executives of these venture capitalists or angel investors.

[1682] And it's so inspiring to sort of see.

[1683] And it's scary for the men.

[1684] Oh, I bet.

[1685] You know, because it's actually harnessing this power and just meeting everybody head on.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] I'm blown away.

[1688] Brooke, I'm so glad you came in in person.

[1689] Thank you for asking me too.

[1690] Absolutely.

[1691] And on a Saturday.

[1692] All right.

[1693] Good luck with everything.

[1694] A castle for Christmas comes out November 26th.

[1695] Mm -hmm.

[1696] And Beginning Is Now is already out.

[1697] So I imagine you have a website.

[1698] We have a website.

[1699] We have Instagram.

[1700] Okay.

[1701] Is it Beginningisnow .com?

[1702] Yeah.

[1703] Beginning is now .com.

[1704] All right, Brooke, thanks so much.

[1705] Thank you.

[1706] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1707] Our last Monday of the year.

[1708] Hi.

[1709] Hi.

[1710] Welcome to the last Monday of the year.

[1711] Do you realize this is the last one day of the season?

[1712] Well, it's the last Monday episode of Armchair Expert in 2021.

[1713] I was trying to annoy you because you just told me that.

[1714] You just educated me on that.

[1715] And then I mansplained it to you.

[1716] You to kind of make you laugh.

[1717] I must be evolving because I didn't, I just thought you were just bringing that up in a fun way.

[1718] Oh, no. You had just told me and then I told you.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] It's really offensive.

[1721] Oh, my God.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] I am offended.

[1724] It was a bit.

[1725] I'm just kidding.

[1726] I'm not offended.

[1727] It's what we would call an offense bit.

[1728] Are you in Georgia right now?

[1729] No, this is Monday.

[1730] Oh, but that's our last Monday of the.

[1731] Yeah, I mean.

[1732] Because we've got a best of.

[1733] Yeah, we have a best of Christmas episode.

[1734] Oh, we have a best of.

[1735] We forgot about best of.

[1736] Yeah, we've been compiling some moments.

[1737] Oh.

[1738] But I have a bad memory now, so it's been trickier.

[1739] Sure.

[1740] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1741] This year I got a bad memory and I became late.

[1742] I wonder if it's from antidepressants.

[1743] I understand that it seems anecdotally that there's some memory.

[1744] And people who are in antidepressants, one of the side effects is that you become late.

[1745] So I shouldn't be in trouble.

[1746] Yeah.

[1747] It is?

[1748] No. Oh, I believe you.

[1749] You're the fact person here.

[1750] Oh, my God.

[1751] I used my power for bad.

[1752] You did.

[1753] I'm sorry.

[1754] You sure did.

[1755] Because how could it possibly be true?

[1756] How could anyone be late as a side effect?

[1757] If it can make your memory bad, like, you could maybe somehow, like, whatever area of your brain is responsible for conceptualizing time.

[1758] That could get weaker.

[1759] I wouldn't mind if there was an explanation because I don't like being late, but I have accepted it at this point and I've just blanket -lidly apologized.

[1760] Well...

[1761] What's this a secret?

[1762] No, that's the...

[1763] the sweater stuff for the fact check that we did on this episode because it'll go on sale when this comes out.

[1764] Oh.

[1765] I do this in the intro or in the now?

[1766] In the fact check at some point, you can talk about how we have new sweaters.

[1767] Well, I mean, we're here now.

[1768] Well, yeah, Rod, that wasn't seamless.

[1769] We stood up and we edit.

[1770] Well, it is actually, this is in a stretch.

[1771] It's a ding, ding, ding, because I'm wearing the sweater and you were just wearing the sweater.

[1772] That's right.

[1773] I call it a sweatshirt.

[1774] I know you want to call it a sweater.

[1775] I want it to be Yeah, because sweater sounds fancier, and this is a fancy sweatshirt.

[1776] So it feels like I should call it a sweater.

[1777] But it's a sweatshirt, you're right.

[1778] Don't you think it's fancy?

[1779] Yeah, it's a really nice sweatshirt.

[1780] Marine layer.

[1781] Marine layer.

[1782] We love Marine layer.

[1783] Listen, we have 500 limited edition Marine layer sweatshirts.

[1784] Marine layer sweatshirts.

[1785] And what is exciting about this sweatshirt is Monica encouraged me to do a drawing for it.

[1786] And I did.

[1787] Yes.

[1788] And if you're not fully up to speed, I have been doing these drawings since I was 11 or 12 called Bullseck Cowboys, and it's a nice little ball sack with a penis.

[1789] And it looks like a horse, and then the cowboy rides it.

[1790] They're so friendly.

[1791] They're playful.

[1792] And they're just like, they're so friendly when you look at one.

[1793] It's the only, like, I've told you this, like every time Delta draws a picture, just the face is so friendly.

[1794] And it's just three dots.

[1795] I don't know why.

[1796] Yeah, because her heart is so friendly.

[1797] And I feel like this is the last thing I have where it's like I can't draw one that doesn't look friendly.

[1798] Yeah, I really like that.

[1799] Also, you draw us so well.

[1800] I'm serious.

[1801] You draw so well that I was like, this is ridiculous if you don't draw us a picture that everyone can own.

[1802] I have one.

[1803] I have a Balsack Cowboy painting in my...

[1804] In original.

[1805] An original.

[1806] Not a print.

[1807] No. Not a lithograph.

[1808] A real painting.

[1809] Not a Xerox copy.

[1810] And I thought it'd be nice if everyone had a piece.

[1811] Right.

[1812] Right.

[1813] So it says ABR on the front, always be recording.

[1814] And on the back, it's a cowboy riding a reel -to -reel tape deck and a microphone that looks very much like a ball sack cowboy.

[1815] And I love it.

[1816] I love the way it turned out.

[1817] They're really soft.

[1818] It's a beautiful color blue that we stole.

[1819] We attempted to steal.

[1820] It's not the exact color.

[1821] No. But there's this beautiful blue on the McLaren retro livery that we just fell in love with.

[1822] And we attempted to get close to that.

[1823] My drawing aside, the appeal is a marine layer.

[1824] sweatshirt they're so fucking comfortable this is what happened one time i was at my friend laura's house and she was wearing a sweatshirt i wanted it and i said where is that sweatshirt from she said marine layer and ever since i've been pretty obsessed with having our sweatshirts be marine layer in the second year in a row that we've done it and they also have some very inspired vintage jackets and hoodies that are super cool my favorite sweatshirt as you know is a gray one with the yellow in red stripes.

[1825] Yeah, and it's Marine Layer.

[1826] That's Marine Layer.

[1827] Okay.

[1828] Brooke Shields.

[1829] Oh, fuck.

[1830] Sorry, that was abrupt.

[1831] That was really abrupt.

[1832] Well, we have other stuff to talk about.

[1833] I'm sorry.

[1834] I just, I got nervous.

[1835] I panicked because this was over.

[1836] Yeah, sure.

[1837] The whole thing about our sweaters, sweaters.

[1838] Oh, my God.

[1839] I really did it again.

[1840] You can call them sweaters.

[1841] So today was the final day of my gift guide.

[1842] I loved your gift guide.

[1843] I'm so glad you brought your gift guide up.

[1844] because who did we have on that I urged them to use your gift guide?

[1845] It was another guy.

[1846] It was Brian Klaus.

[1847] Oh, Jesus.

[1848] He's a serious man. And we did talk about my gift guide for like six minutes.

[1849] Yeah, because I don't want to speak for guys because I could be singular in this feeling.

[1850] Sure.

[1851] But I know I'm not singular because every male in my group feels this way too.

[1852] We are so bad.

[1853] We're just bad at gift giving.

[1854] We're bad at it.

[1855] I also know women who feel this way, too.

[1856] Okay.

[1857] Yeah.

[1858] I'm only going to speak, well, I'll speak for women when I get to reproductive rights, but right now I'm just going to speak for men.

[1859] I want to give somebody something really nice.

[1860] I want that, but I cannot think of anything.

[1861] Yeah.

[1862] And then I went to your gift guide, and I'm like, every one of these is awesome.

[1863] Thank you.

[1864] I have so many females in my life.

[1865] I had this weird thing, and I was like, how can I text you this?

[1866] How can I get this out of you without you knowing?

[1867] You were going to buy me something from my gift bag?

[1868] Exactly.

[1869] I was like, is this in a weird way?

[1870] Like, should I buy Monica everything on this list?

[1871] Because is it everything she wants?

[1872] Did you?

[1873] No. I think it was smart to not because these, especially for this gift guide, these are like tried and trues.

[1874] I know they're good because I either have them or I bought them.

[1875] Yeah.

[1876] Yeah, I'm not going to recommend something I don't know personally.

[1877] Right.

[1878] So I shouldn't get you anything on there.

[1879] I wanted to get every one of those things thinking, well, this is what she likes.

[1880] And she put it in the universe.

[1881] and let me reward her by putting it out in the universe.

[1882] Look for my car guide coming soon.

[1883] Ferrari.

[1884] But it did cross my mind.

[1885] And then I had to text you.

[1886] Oh, spoiler alert for some of my friends.

[1887] Yeah.

[1888] I had to text you.

[1889] Do you think people will feel disrespected that I bought them something from your gift guide because they'll know that's where I got the idea.

[1890] Like, will it feel like I didn't think about them?

[1891] Dishingenuous.

[1892] No, I think.

[1893] Satisfizers.

[1894] Satisfizers, maximizers.

[1895] Yes.

[1896] Frequency illusion.

[1897] Baton.

[1898] Attribution error.

[1899] Hellenic studies.

[1900] No, because I know that person wants the thing you bought, wants all the things you put.

[1901] I went crazy.

[1902] I kept sending you screen grabs of all the things I was buying.

[1903] I really went berserk.

[1904] And it took me a long time.

[1905] Shopping takes a while.

[1906] It does.

[1907] I put it in my calendar.

[1908] I was like, this isn't going to get done.

[1909] Every day I think, fuck, I still haven't gotten shit.

[1910] I was laughing.

[1911] so hard because, you know, I have access to your calendar.

[1912] Yeah, yeah.

[1913] And I was looking to see what was going on that day.

[1914] And I was like, serious Christmas, one to four.

[1915] That's what it said.

[1916] I was like, he's doing something for serious radio from one to four Christmas.

[1917] And then I realized, oh, no, you're just taking Christmas seriously from one to four.

[1918] That's right.

[1919] And I did.

[1920] It came up into the attic by myself and I fucking got after it.

[1921] I got to say, I've become so spoiled by Apple Pay.

[1922] I just want to do a service announcement.

[1923] Can we use Apple Pay on our website?

[1924] You can look into that.

[1925] Because I'm about to complain and probably we don't offer it.

[1926] But Apple Pay makes buying stuff on the internet.

[1927] I know.

[1928] So fucking easy that I have actually built a couple carts over the last couple months, get to check out they don't have Apple Pay.

[1929] And I'm literally like that's the barrier of entry.

[1930] I won't cross.

[1931] I've done it too because I don't know my credit card by heart.

[1932] So I have to then go find it.

[1933] And that sometimes is enough to stop me. My big, you know, first world problem is that I have two different addresses.

[1934] So I have my address that I live at that I want the things shipped to my house.

[1935] And then I have where my credit card goes to.

[1936] That's right.

[1937] As do you.

[1938] Yes.

[1939] So when you got to fill that out, it's two whole addresses.

[1940] That's one too many for me. It's like at least 45 seconds of time.

[1941] I'm such a brat.

[1942] I know.

[1943] Can you believe that?

[1944] It'll actually prevent me from getting, like, I've wanted one of these wheelies, even though I'm a little nervous.

[1945] They're kind of like if I was younger, I would know you look like a dumbass on them.

[1946] Wait, why?

[1947] what do you mean?

[1948] It's a single wheel with like, imagine a skateboard, but in the middle of the skateboard, there's a large wheel like this big, and it's electric.

[1949] I think it'll like 20 miles an hour and the range is like, I don't know, 20, 30 miles.

[1950] And I'm like, oh, I could ride that to places.

[1951] Kind of like a hovercraft.

[1952] Kind of like a hovercraft.

[1953] But one wheel, it's called a wheelie.

[1954] I've put it in a cart three different times, but Instagram knows I want it.

[1955] They keep showing it to me. I keep building it.

[1956] You can pick out the colors.

[1957] And then I get to the page and I'm like, I'm not going to fill out all this shit for one because i think i might look stupid on it as well is it the thing that the millie has no no you don't know any no one no one in our circle has one you don't know people like i do okay it's like a very extreme one -wheeled hoverboard but it goes like 25 miles an hour okay people are like they put knobby tires on them they're going on like um mountain bike trails with them they're jumping them it looks fun um but also it looks like something that like dads do oh So I'm a little nervous that I look stupid on it.

[1958] Okay, well, don't let that be a deterrent.

[1959] Well, mostly, no, it's just Apple Pay.

[1960] That's my big deterrent.

[1961] Okay, okay, good.

[1962] Good, good, good.

[1963] I'm trapped in my thing.

[1964] I don't know if this is such a bratty thing to talk about or not.

[1965] Look, we're us.

[1966] I know, but I hate...

[1967] I like Amazon pay a lot.

[1968] I'll use it.

[1969] When they don't have Apple Pay, I'm delighted if they have Amazon.

[1970] It's a little harder.

[1971] You've got to put in your password.

[1972] There's a couple more.

[1973] I store my credit cards on my browser.

[1974] Okay.

[1975] So it just lets me select.

[1976] From there.

[1977] I know, but Rob, that's a little, that's a little scary.

[1978] Are you afraid, Rob?

[1979] No. Are you scared?

[1980] No?

[1981] Have you ever had your credit card stolen?

[1982] Yeah, yeah, lots of times.

[1983] Yeah, of course.

[1984] Yeah, I've never, no reason to look further into that.

[1985] Just a cause to do in business.

[1986] I guess I store them all on my browser and then every two months I get a new card in the mail.

[1987] What's the problem?

[1988] Nothing broken.

[1989] Nothing to see here.

[1990] Oh, my God.

[1991] I hope Apple likes this endorsement because.

[1992] I probably didn't like my call out to them on my gift guide.

[1993] I don't think that's true, by the way, once you found out that I loved your gift guide, you were kind enough to throw me a nod.

[1994] I did.

[1995] Yeah, and I really liked it.

[1996] I felt like I was, well, I text you.

[1997] I said, you're such a wonderful writer.

[1998] I think you're such a skilled writer.

[1999] And I want you to write, but that's a side note.

[2000] I was reading it as if I had a magazine subscription.

[2001] Like, yeah, it transferred into like, this is a real thing.

[2002] And I'm buying everything off of it.

[2003] And so then to see myself referenced in it was really thrilling.

[2004] It was like I was in Game of Thrones or something.

[2005] Oh, my God.

[2006] Yeah.

[2007] Okay.

[2008] Yeah.

[2009] So this gift guide to me was a rousing success.

[2010] I don't know what everyone's expectations were, what your own personal expectations were, but I'm delighted from day one to day seven.

[2011] And I bought half of the shit on there.

[2012] Well, as you know, as we've talked about it, we don't need to go over this again.

[2013] It was a rough start.

[2014] Mm -hmm.

[2015] Rocky.

[2016] And then I stopped caring.

[2017] Yeah.

[2018] And I just enjoyed it.

[2019] That's what it should have been from the get -go, which is impossible.

[2020] But sometimes you have to learn a lesson.

[2021] You do.

[2022] You've got to learn your lessons the hard way.

[2023] That's what Brooke Shield says.

[2024] Ding, ding, ding.

[2025] Oh, my God.

[2026] She said that from her first gift guide.

[2027] Yeah.

[2028] What?

[2029] Bill Gates's Christmas video.

[2030] Oh, my God.

[2031] We almost didn't talk about it.

[2032] How could we have not talked about it?

[2033] If people haven't seen this.

[2034] Have you seen it, Rob?

[2035] I have not.

[2036] Oh, my God.

[2037] You've got to go to Bill Gates' Instagram.

[2038] He made a Christmas video of his favorite books of the year.

[2039] And I'm talking one of the most well.

[2040] produced videos I've seen.

[2041] It looks like the beginning of a Muppets' Christmas episode.

[2042] I think Guillermo Del Toro directed it.

[2043] No, he didn't.

[2044] No. But he could have.

[2045] Oh my God, you are believing everything today.

[2046] Yeah, I believe you so much.

[2047] Please don't lie to me. But he made this little video of him just cruising down a street.

[2048] A quaint, beautiful Christmas street.

[2049] It looked like it was at Warner Brothers or something.

[2050] It's a back lot.

[2051] He's on a back lot.

[2052] And they've dressed all the stores he's going to stroll past.

[2053] I think there's a snow machine.

[2054] Yeah, there's a snow machine.

[2055] Everyone's dressed up like Carolyn.

[2056] It's beautiful.

[2057] It's so enchanted.

[2058] And he strolls and tells you about his favorite books.

[2059] He spent a fortune to produce this.

[2060] And how much time?

[2061] Like a lot.

[2062] That was a full day shoot for sure.

[2063] He had to memorize so many lines.

[2064] He did, yeah.

[2065] He was off book on like definitely two monologues, maybe three.

[2066] And the whole time, I'm like, why is he doing this?

[2067] Out of the love of his heart for these books.

[2068] Exactly.

[2069] Yeah, part of me was like, these publishers better pay for the production of this because their book sales are going to go up and then then you remember he doesn't need any money so i hope they do something for him well they'll probably just say thank you is that enough yeah after what he did hired a film crew a production designer a director a writer i know he did do so much but that's because he loves books you know last year he i am a little upset because this year we were taken off whatever gift list i know last year he sent us a stack of his favorite books of the year he sent us the books but we had just done his thing hadn't we probably but we need to do something more for him okay those are thank you so we make a video for him that's equally as produced and it can be about our favorite um thoughts of him yeah or like um a gift guide specific that's mainly my new thing now yeah i guess you're kind of locked into the gift guide genre that's fine keep exploring it until you've chartered new ground and anyways watch that video it's so adorable oh my god he's just so cute i have an update on our web store oh you can do apple pay if you're on safari oh you can okay great i just turned it on oh okay now you can okay great oh this is great oh my god now we have apple pay real time adjustment now for the sweater sweatshirt shirts you can use apple pay wow what timing these are going to go these now because of Apple pay.

[2070] These sweaters are gone.

[2071] They're gone.

[2072] Don't even go to our website.

[2073] Forget that earlier thing I said.

[2074] Anyway, so Brooke.

[2075] Brook.

[2076] Shields.

[2077] My regret, my big regret is, well, we had Brooke on on a Saturday, which was fun, Saturday night, dark in the attic.

[2078] We then, like, two days later, decided to have Bradley on him, but we had to turn that over very quickly.

[2079] Yes.

[2080] But this episode was right before.

[2081] Is Bradley Hesse?

[2082] heavy, and it was before we had him on.

[2083] I know.

[2084] So now it might sound odd.

[2085] I know.

[2086] Well, Sim, obviously.

[2087] Yeah.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] But it's a little mess -up Sim because...

[2090] It is.

[2091] They got the chronology wrong.

[2092] That's right.

[2093] It's like Y2K.

[2094] Something in the computer thought it was, yeah.

[2095] Yeah.

[2096] That happens.

[2097] Maybe my dad, you know what?

[2098] It was probably the day he got his booster.

[2099] He wasn't feeling great.

[2100] Oh, okay.

[2101] So in your world, in your opinion, your dad's the architect of the Sim?

[2102] I think he's just the client who paid for this.

[2103] Yeah, yeah.

[2104] Do we need him alert all the time?

[2105] I think his health has to do with...

[2106] Oh, Jesus.

[2107] You don't think so?

[2108] Are you saying when your father passes, we're all passing?

[2109] He's never going to...

[2110] It never crossed my mind, but of course that's what's going to happen.

[2111] I mean, yeah.

[2112] When Neo -unplugs, the Matrix stops.

[2113] Oh, my God.

[2114] Exactly.

[2115] Oh, my God, this reminds me, this is so funny.

[2116] My dad said that there was a girl at work who came up to him.

[2117] It was like, I guess, a younger girl and was just staring at my dad in his cube.

[2118] Oh, my God.

[2119] And he was like, is everything okay?

[2120] Yeah.

[2121] What's going on?

[2122] She said, she said, are you Monica's dad?

[2123] But they know each other.

[2124] Like, they worked together.

[2125] Okay.

[2126] But she just didn't maybe put last names together.

[2127] I don't know.

[2128] She didn't know, but someone must have then told her like, oh.

[2129] Are you Monica's dad?

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] And he said, oh, yeah.

[2132] And she was like, she freaked out.

[2133] Oh, my gosh.

[2134] And she said, like, we talk about you, like her and her boyfriend or something.

[2135] Like, if something's going on in their world that's, like, messed up or good, they'll be like, oh, Monica's dad.

[2136] They didn't realize she worked with the, oh, my God.

[2137] Which is even more sim for her.

[2138] Totally, yes.

[2139] What are the odds she works with the fucking, yes.

[2140] The guy funding this whole sim.

[2141] Exactly.

[2142] Yeah, so.

[2143] I guess he's more of the Oz in the.

[2144] scenario.

[2145] He, I don't know what he is.

[2146] Is he the great and powerful odds?

[2147] I don't want to overthink him.

[2148] Okay, let's not.

[2149] Because he is my dad still.

[2150] Yeah, we love him so much.

[2151] Okay.

[2152] Brooke.

[2153] I don't remember if we were ABR at this point or not, but she pointed out my baby eyebrows.

[2154] Yep, yep.

[2155] And it was one of my best compliments I've ever received because she's the eyebrow queen.

[2156] I icon of eyebrows.

[2157] She's the E -Y -E -C -O -M.

[2158] Oh wow Yeah That's a good name For an eyeland Did I already come up with that Icon?

[2159] I don't think maybe Did you?

[2160] That's a good name for a Pharmaceutical For a makeup Eyewear company Jesus Christ I wear Oh my god Makeup You mean like mascara I make up I accoutramal Wait Aykutramal Oh I cumutramo Oh my I Carly If I were named Carly and are famous, I would do E .Y .E. Carly.

[2161] It's a TV show already.

[2162] Duh.

[2163] That's the reference.

[2164] But the show isn't E .Y .E. Carly.

[2165] It's I Carly.

[2166] Okay.

[2167] You know I Carly?

[2168] That just goes to show the kids, ages.

[2169] What?

[2170] No. I don't know it's from my kids.

[2171] I know it from the zeitgeist.

[2172] You do?

[2173] Yes.

[2174] Because my little sister's name is Carly.

[2175] right so anytime there's a popular carly something i'm gonna log it okay yeah that's nice well first i had asked my sister is there a story about you on tv oh sure and it wasn't her because that's the way your brain think yeah it must be carly the one i know okay what was carrie's character's name in princess bride wesley wesley wesley of course of course wesley in buttercup barbara walter's interview I was going to play it.

[2176] Should I?

[2177] Sure.

[2178] What are your measurements?

[2179] What are your measurements?

[2180] I'm 5 .10 and 120.

[2181] I don't, I think when people see you, they don't realize how tall and slim.

[2182] Let me stand up with you, sir.

[2183] Because I'm 5 .5 and I'm wearing high heels.

[2184] She's making her do a twirl around, basically.

[2185] Oh, wow.

[2186] Because we haven't really seen you standing next to somewhere.

[2187] We need to see you standing.

[2188] Very hard when you get a little kid to side to keep her down the side, isn't it?

[2189] My dad's really tall, too.

[2190] Your dad is six, seven.

[2191] Would you be a mother like you're a mother?

[2192] I think so, yes.

[2193] I mean, I think I've learned from my mom, you know.

[2194] But what about the people who say she had no childhood?

[2195] And accuse you.

[2196] You took away her childhood.

[2197] But I'm still going through my childhood, so I can't say that I didn't.

[2198] Sitting here like this is going through your childhood?

[2199] Well, I'd rather do this than not do it at all.

[2200] Stay on the watch TV.

[2201] I mean, I'm having, I like, I enjoy this, and I think that it's an experience that I would not like to miss. Do you have any secrets from your mother?

[2202] No, we tell it, we really tell each other every, I mean, I think that probably as I'm getting older, there are just certain little things that I might just not want to tell.

[2203] I mean, I really haven't, there haven't been anything that I, so I don't, I mean, we tell each other just everything that I feel I should tell her.

[2204] Huh.

[2205] the part I watch but it wasn't no she gets into the like have you had sex and blah a bunch of shit that's on her business yeah yeah yeah yeah because the ad is so sexy well yeah when I was watching it I was like in some weird way I can't even believe that was allowed on TV in the 80s like in some weird way we we were more sexual I guess just concerning children yeah like when I didn't bring up on this thing and I didn't want to make her feel really uncomfortable but she posed for nude photos at 10 years old with her mother's permission and then the person sold those to Playboy and there was this whole lawsuit but Playboy was buying them yes they were 10 she was 10.

[2206] That's illegal well now it is but I think like in the early 80s that was somehow that's what I was like really going like oh wow it was way different we didn't get really protective of kids for a while look at Blue Lagoon like she's like 13 in that and it's all about these two and there's a body double and there's nudity and you as the viewer think you're seeing a 13 year old even though it's presumably an 18 year old doing the body double stuff but i think that's the difference is because she looked older then people just excused it now you would not be able to yeah there was this like i feel like when i was growing up there was this notion that like oh well she's so mature exactly and now we're like you can't be that mature your brain isn't formed exactly yeah yeah But it did, God, this is very dangerous.

[2207] In no way excusing it.

[2208] I'm repulsed by it.

[2209] But it definitely became a weird context to them think about the Polansky thing.

[2210] Where I was like, oh, my God, society was way different back then.

[2211] Like, the main sex symbol for Calvin Klein was 14 years old.

[2212] Like, that's a weird reality to confront.

[2213] Yeah.

[2214] But he was having sex with them, right?

[2215] He had sex with a...

[2216] Like a young girl.

[2217] Young girl at a party in a hot tub, everyone on drugs, and drunk.

[2218] It's not good.

[2219] It's terrible.

[2220] Yeah.

[2221] But when I see that the commercial that was playing on the TV set before they went out to the hot tub was probably telling the young girl something subliminally and telling everyone something weirdly subliminally.

[2222] Yeah, I know.

[2223] Like somehow it's okay to sexualize preteens or teens.

[2224] It was like on TV.

[2225] I don't know, it's weird.

[2226] I mean, at the time, a lot of people, you know, defended him.

[2227] Yeah, and I think some of them had bought into this notion that there were these like turbocharged sexually mature teens.

[2228] Yeah.

[2229] I think, you know what, growing up in the 80s, I think I believe that.

[2230] Really?

[2231] Yeah.

[2232] It's weird because I knew girls that age that were having sex.

[2233] I knew girls that age that were partying.

[2234] and then so I had to go like they already have sex now they've had sex with an older person that's weird but at the time you don't really you're like well they're having sex I don't know yeah I mean it's again we're not asking the kids to know the difference we're asking the adults to know the difference yes yes yes yes but I think they they served up this convenient fantasy that somehow there were these people that were just born mature sexually and advanced and it's so weird I wonder if I have to assume everyone when they're 46, look back on their childhood and there's, like, some things.

[2235] I just am wondering, like, if my parents had any awareness at 46 of how bizarre the 50s were to grow up in.

[2236] Yeah.

[2237] I think so.

[2238] I mean, that's what we do.

[2239] We're evolving and we're looking back.

[2240] And this is going to look weird.

[2241] I don't know.

[2242] Well, the reason I think they might not have is there wasn't a treasure trove of all this media.

[2243] They couldn't see media from their childhood.

[2244] They couldn't go on YouTube and watch an interview from the 1950s.

[2245] like I can go on and watch Barbara Walters.

[2246] Like, I can revisit the things I was absorbing at that age.

[2247] And I don't have no memory of it.

[2248] Like, I don't have a memory of, I don't look back and think, like, God, we sexualized children back then in a crazy way.

[2249] And older men asked 16 -year -olds if they were virgins on TV and that was fine.

[2250] I don't think that was my childhood.

[2251] But every time I visit this media, I'm like, oh, my God, it was my childhood.

[2252] So I think that part's got to be new to be able to view the media that you, live as a kid?

[2253] No, that's true.

[2254] You're right.

[2255] Like, I guess now it's easier to be objective later.

[2256] Yeah.

[2257] Like, all the people would have been dealing with is their memories of that time.

[2258] And if I were only dealing with my memories of that time, I wouldn't have come to this realization.

[2259] Yeah, I think that's true.

[2260] It's interesting.

[2261] I wonder if it'll be ultimately productive.

[2262] Yeah.

[2263] Like, it probably will accelerate the good change we need.

[2264] Progress.

[2265] Yeah.

[2266] It's so weird.

[2267] I think a lot of these, like the fear people have about getting canceled.

[2268] and can anything be said and can people be funny and all these things i think what it's really just going to end up requiring is that you delineate between the nuances of all these things is like oh no you can still be sexual you can still tell sexual jokes you can make observations there's all these things but do they funnel into a broader global misogyny do they funnel into global racism how much harm are they doing yeah like yeah a lot to think about over the holidays holidays.

[2269] I urge everyone to go back and watch some media from their childhood and see if they watch like a monologue from when you're nine years old.

[2270] Now if you watch any, again, holidays.

[2271] Like you'll watch old movies.

[2272] And then it's so hard to watch anything old.

[2273] Oh, you know, in my own career, I've done many things that I want to currently do.

[2274] I do an Indian accent, as you know.

[2275] Great regret.

[2276] I'm ready to tell you that at some point.

[2277] I'm like, I need to tell you something.

[2278] Do you remember this?

[2279] When I told you, I needed to tell you that I had done it.

[2280] I don't remember that.

[2281] Yeah, I told you, like, I need you to know I did it in a movie.

[2282] And I was, think one bit about it.

[2283] I thought, am I doing this accent?

[2284] Well, selfishly.

[2285] That's all I thought about.

[2286] No. I mean, I, it's a bummer.

[2287] I mean, yeah, you wouldn't, again, you wouldn't do it now.

[2288] I wouldn't do it now.

[2289] And that's.

[2290] Well, for a lot of money.

[2291] How much money would I, would you be mad if I didn't do it?

[2292] How much are you going to give me of the money?

[2293] Yeah, half.

[2294] Half?

[2295] Okay.

[2296] A hundred bucks?

[2297] Half you could do it for...

[2298] This is kind of similar to how much would I drink a beer and a commercial for question from Eric.

[2299] Have you could do it for $50 million.

[2300] Okay.

[2301] And I'd take $25.

[2302] Yeah.

[2303] And I'd give half of mine...

[2304] To your rich Indian family.

[2305] It's all the Indians, I know.

[2306] It's just my mom and dad and brother.

[2307] Mindy, you shoot Mindy a couple million.

[2308] She needs it.

[2309] Can't do it.

[2310] Can't do it.

[2311] It's not worth it.

[2312] Not worth it.

[2313] Happy holidays.

[2314] I love you.

[2315] For months and hours to you and yours.

[2316] Happy holidays.

[2317] All right, love you guys.

[2318] All right, I love you.

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