#462 - Steven Rinella, Doug Duren, Bryan Callen

[0] The Joe Rogan experience.

[1] Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.

[2] Boom, ladies and gentlemen.

[3] In late 2013, we went to the farm of one Douglas Duren in Upper Wisconsin, actually Southwest.

[4] It's all the same.

[5] Anything in up in Wisconsin's upper Wisconsin.

[6] It's not like we're like, wait, this is southeast.

[7] I love Southwest Wisconsin.

[8] Way better.

[9] No, because it is a difference because these guys in Wisconsin, what they go by is that bottom quarter, that bottom quadrant, the bottom left quadrant, is the, they call it the driftless area because it didn't get demolished by glaciers.

[10] Yeah, that's a good point, because for folks who've never been to Wisconsin, you think of Wisconsin as being like this flat area where, you know, the reason why those areas are flat is because they got smushed.

[11] Yeah, there's a guy I know who lives up in the northeast, and he makes maple syrup, and he always makes a point to put on there from the drifted area of Wisconsin.

[12] Like he's trying to turn He's trying to use that He doesn't like it The glaciers came over and smushed it And flattened everything out What we were was all hilly and beautiful And you know All the landscape is varied That's because it didn't get smushed Yeah it was like a little median It was like a little median between the lanes of glaciation Yeah it could have been miners Yeah they just built it up You're all good That was the thing that When we were in Montana We were driving Brian's like Oh it's all mining Large -scale mining What the fuck are you talking about?

[13] This is a mine.

[14] It's a river cut through here.

[15] Like the mining expert.

[16] Apparently, I'm a mining expert.

[17] I can tell by the topography.

[18] At least you don't really believe what you're saying.

[19] True.

[20] You just start saying something and you just go with it for a goof.

[21] I'll commit.

[22] I'll commit.

[23] But you don't commit with your ego.

[24] You don't really attach to it, which is fine.

[25] My mind has changed all the time.

[26] I talk about being a libertarian.

[27] I had this guy, William Bernstein, has written all these books, you know, on my podcast.

[28] And he started going, well, yeah, but then he started giving me examples of how being a libertarian wouldn't really help you if you're hoping that your kid isn't wearing something toxic, you know, there's certain that when you get on a plane, you want there to be an F, F, D, you know, whatever it is.

[29] Yeah, whatever it is.

[30] Standards, federal standards for flying.

[31] So I was like, yeah, yeah, you're right.

[32] I back off everything I've been saying.

[33] Well, being a libertarian up to a point is not a bad idea.

[34] Of course.

[35] The problem with any ideologies, you get lumped into, it's too rigid.

[36] They're making coffee in there.

[37] I thought, I was like, I thought something's happening to me. We used to call it bulletproof coffee.

[38] Now we call it the Rob Wolf Blend.

[39] But anyway, Doug Durin's Farm, you were so gracious to have us up there to film Meat Eater.

[40] And we appreciate it very much.

[41] And, you know, as I said on the show, you can have a different time, but you can't have a better time.

[42] We had a fucking fantastic week there with your friends.

[43] You've got a great group of guys that you go hunting with every weekend.

[44] And just a great group that represents what hunting really should be.

[45] a bunch of cool people having a good time doing something that's fun doing it ethically and and you know getting some great meat out of it can i talk about how i met dog sure because it speaks a dog i'll just sit here quietly Doug's a very big man by the way yeah Doug's a big guy a lot of bone a lot of um well i i met Doug after i wrote my buffalo book Doug you know wrote me a letter and usually like letters i don't mean i don't even want to say what i was going to say why not you look at you know letters i love to get letters they're fantastic you know what i mean but a lot of times it's like people you can't tell if they want to you know you can't really get it's hard to determine sometimes what they're after and i'm sure you get tons of Doug wrote me like a letter that made me actually be like i am going to i want to contact this person it's just kind of like i like your book and i heard this and here's what we got going on at my farm we started email back and forth and doug i don't know what year this was Invited me to come out to his cold -ass farm.

[46] Every time he comes out, it's cold, so it's his fault.

[47] So I just went out there, and I didn't know if I was going to get molested.

[48] I didn't know the guy.

[49] By those big hands.

[50] I know.

[51] I was like big, you know, hands molesting me out that place.

[52] I left a note telling my wife, like, if I don't call on next hours, like, call 911.

[53] What a note this must have been?

[54] Call Casinovius' 9 version of 9 -1 -1.

[55] What a note this must have been to inspire you.

[56] I don't even know.

[57] It was like a moving note.

[58] So I've never done anything like that, ever.

[59] But I did.

[60] And I went out at the dog's cold farm, and it was real cold.

[61] And then I came back out.

[62] I came back out, and it was extremely cold.

[63] Did he meet you at the door in a robe?

[64] And a warm hot tuby?

[65] No, I think he picked me up at the airport.

[66] I did pick you up.

[67] So we got a sack of cheese curds.

[68] I took him to my house.

[69] He met my wife so he could see everything was legit that I wasn't going to just.

[70] take him up to the woods right away and so you became friends and I first saw Doug on your show Meat Eater, Best show on television and I first saw the first hunt that you guys went on you went on a deer hunt and you shot some rabbits and you made some rabbit stew and it just looked like a great hangout you guys had a really good time up there so when Steve said hey you want to come to Doug's farm up in Wisconsin and hunt deer I was like, fuck, yeah, that sounds awesome.

[71] I'll go on record right now and say that beaver might be the best meat I've ever had.

[72] You're out of your fucking mind.

[73] And I'm not kidding about it.

[74] You're out of your fucking mind.

[75] It was good.

[76] It's not as good as venison.

[77] Oh, it's so tender.

[78] Get out of here, bitch.

[79] That little rodent.

[80] Yeah, but can't you do like a thing, you know, you'll have a different meal, but you'll have a better meal?

[81] Yeah.

[82] You'll have a better meal.

[83] Beaver's very good.

[84] Beaver's very good.

[85] But what I like about venison is you eat it rare.

[86] And you get that taste of the real blood, the animal.

[87] You know, it's not disguised in a meal.

[88] You're eating the venison.

[89] I just couldn't believe how tender beaver was.

[90] Well, the way Steve cooked it, yeah.

[91] It's real tender.

[92] Yeah.

[93] I mean, you know, you really knew what you're doing.

[94] You know, when you...

[95] Yeah, you got to cook it a long time.

[96] You wouldn't be able to just take, like, a hunk of beaver meat and grill it.

[97] No. Well, I've been doing that with that pig that we shot in Tihon Ranch.

[98] And that's tough.

[99] It's delicious, but it's tough.

[100] You got to chew it, yeah.

[101] Yeah.

[102] Yeah, even if the loin, even the cooking the loin, because first of all, you got to cook it all the way through.

[103] It's got to be, you know, it's got to be like medium because it's pork.

[104] Right.

[105] You know, but it's not like venison.

[106] Like venison is just like so soft and delicious.

[107] Pork's good, man. Pork loin is damn delicious.

[108] But it's definitely tougher.

[109] It's definitely tougher.

[110] So how did the mule deer venison compare to the whitetail?

[111] The white tail was so damn good.

[112] I don't think you can get better tasting meat on the planet.

[113] That white -tail venison that we made in your kitchen when we cooked up those backstrap?

[114] Yeah, that's good, man, yeah.

[115] That's the best meat I've ever had.

[116] I don't think it gets any better.

[117] I mean, the way you cooked it with that butter and that salt and the garlic salt, oh, and a hot flame on a cast iron.

[118] That was the key.

[119] Oh, my God.

[120] We've got to use butter and then get that grill, the griddle really hot and just cook that bitch for just not even like 30 seconds each side.

[121] Yeah.

[122] And then beating it up with the beer bottle.

[123] Smash it down.

[124] Yeah, smash it down with the beer bottle.

[125] So you cut, like, you know, an inch thick, cute, you know, a slice of the, the loin, pound it down so it's kind of flat.

[126] And then when you throw it in there, seriously, 30 seconds each side max, crackle, crackle, and then, oh.

[127] It's so good.

[128] Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

[129] I mean, I love elk.

[130] I've had, you know, elk that's just about as good as any meat I've ever had in my life.

[131] I think, but that, those backstrap's cooked that way.

[132] It's just, it's hard to fuck with.

[133] And plus, those deer that we shot at your.

[134] farm are so fat and healthy.

[135] Those are some healthy deer, man. There's a corn fed. And young.

[136] Also, they were also young.

[137] That's the bad part.

[138] How much different do they taste if they're really old?

[139] It makes a bit of difference.

[140] What's the oldest deer you've ever shot, you think?

[141] That one buck I shot was, he was at least five and a half.

[142] It gets hard to tell after a while, right?

[143] The age ones, yeah.

[144] You do it by their teeth?

[145] Yeah.

[146] You take it to like a DNR station and they'll look at it and they'll tell They say it's two and a half.

[147] It seems like it's like every deer is two and a half years old because they can't make a mistake there or something.

[148] But I guess that one at five and a half just based on the teeth.

[149] And then I shot one with Mike Arkins or Hutch, as he's affectionately known by Steve, a couple of years ago, that was an older deer than that.

[150] And it was, that was a little.

[151] A little gamey is the wrong word.

[152] Cameron Haynes.

[153] I don't think White Tail's ever gamey.

[154] Cameron Haynes was on the podcast and he shot a water.

[155] Buffalo that was 20 years old.

[156] Oh, yeah?

[157] Yeah, and he said he had a piece of meat that he put in his mouth there at the camp, and he was practicing with his bow.

[158] He said he practiced with his bow for a half an hour with the same piece of meat in his mouth.

[159] Just like packing a chaw, man. Just trying to break it down.

[160] Couldn't break it down.

[161] I killed a black bear that was 17.

[162] They do a tooth denting thing.

[163] 17 -year -old bear.

[164] Wow.

[165] How long do they live, black bears?

[166] About that.

[167] Wow.

[168] Well, I mean, they get a little older, but he was 17, and I sent his tongue in.

[169] Like Montana State University used to run a program where You could send a chunk of the tongue in And they'd do a test for trichinosis on the tongue Because it cons like I guess you get a good concentration up in the tongue Good concentration in the shoulders So I butchered this whole thing It was funny as hell as we went down to my roommate I was in school And my roommate was caught in fish at this Buy Low grocery Okay And he's like well shit let's just take that bear down And grind it after hours at work you know so we go down there this thing looked like we went down there and run it through the grinders we had those little you know those little foam things they get meat on this stuff looked like I mean my freezer looked like someone had just went and raided a grocery store because I had all those foam bottom things at the saran right I just looked perfect man like stacked up like bars of gold and then we got done we cleaned you know we cleaned but I started wondering about the depth of cleaning we did because a couple weeks go by and they sent me this thing like yeah your bear is trichnosis positive uh oh You can go ahead and throw the bear out if you want, but we won't reissue you a new bear tag.

[170] So if you now have the right to, like, you can get around because it's illegal to waste game meat, right?

[171] So it's wanton waste law.

[172] They said, you're exempt from wanton waste on that bear, but you can throw it out, but we won't give you a new tag.

[173] And I just went down and bought a meat thermometer.

[174] I had a hundred, this bear was, you couldn't even think about even moving this bear, you know.

[175] I had a, I think it was 100, it was either 130 or 160 pounds of freaking ground meat off that bear.

[176] damn i ate it to the bitter end man with that freaking meat thermometer i'd be out in my yard like with freaking bear burgers on that meat thermometer i do say freaking yeah because i'm afraid my mom's listening you got to cook it to a certain degree my mom listens we were talking about it on the before before the podcast started we're saying Steve's one of those guys that says freaking when he doesn't have to he doesn't realize it because I know that my mom my mom likes to listen to your show man so so what's the temperature that kills trichinosis.

[177] You know, I just looked this all the day a day.

[178] 150?

[179] No, it's 155 or 150.

[180] I can't remember 154.

[181] Only the gangster trichinosis survived.

[182] But you know, they just changed it like, you know, the USDA just lowered pork.

[183] Really?

[184] Because, well, because like, USDA inspected pork, I mean, 90 % of the trichnosis cases in the U .S. are coming out of black bear meat.

[185] That's incredible.

[186] I heard that on your podcast.

[187] Yeah.

[188] Because now they control how they feed pigs.

[189] So they lowered the temperature on pork because what they were, what they've, what they've, I think what they eventually found out is the way people used to be able to fat and pigs a restaurant slop.

[190] And restaurant slop had rats and mice in it.

[191] And rats and mice are picking up trichnosis by eating flesh.

[192] Nothing's born with trichnosis that has to get it through consumption of an infected animal.

[193] And when they got it figured out enough where they know what's going into the mouths of inspected pork, they don't have anymore.

[194] Now they say you don't need to cook pork to.

[195] It can be rare.

[196] You get a rare pork?

[197] It's like.

[198] They serve it medium.

[199] I can't believe Doug's not.

[200] Doug's like always fact checks everything you say.

[201] say as you say it i can't leave my phone off i'm just going to go uh you know however do you ever hunt wild pigs doug i have never done it you should come with us there's a place up here the the um tajon ranch they're infested it's incredible they're a lot of them oh they're everywhere and they're wild man we were me and steve and uh cody cody the guide plant we were walking down this road and i'm telling you like where that curtain is there were some pigs duke in it out we couldn't see them because they were in the bush And we're sitting there, like, waiting for one to pop out.

[202] But they're like, wha -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h -h.

[203] It's like you're in a monster movie or something.

[204] Like, there's some gremlins dukeying it out.

[205] They carry on, man. They carry on.

[206] The brush is shaking.

[207] They had no idea we were there.

[208] They were there.

[209] They were just making all this crazy noise.

[210] Wow.

[211] I mean, 15, 20 feet away, maybe.

[212] Jeez.

[213] I was in Austin, and I, when I came off stage, this guy who was introduced to me. My buddy used to be this Delta guy, Delta Force guy.

[214] So his buddy was a, uh, seal seal team six guy so we got to know each other and talking and he said look man I'm I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogans he and I think alike and he said if you guys ever want to come down to Austin we'll throw you in a couple small birds that would be helicopters and you guys can shoot pigs with a bell fed machine gun see he doesn't know me that well I don't have any desire to do that I like hunting pigs but I you know I felt weird about doing it out of a truck right I felt weird about driving around a truck and jumping out and bang you don't want to pull a ted nudge it well looks like fun for sure and if it was my farm don't get me wrong if i had a giant farm these pigs are fucking up my farm i would absolutely hire ted nouget and pig man to fly around shoot nuclear weapons at them but the reality is that's not what i want to you're not going to fly down to austin strap into a helicopter it seems like it would be a lot of fun but it might turn on an area of your brain that you don't really want turned on well my buddy is really has with those two my delta port buddy literally goes oh i'll i'll teach you i'm really good at shooting from a helicopter i'll teach you all about that a lot of guys don't know how to teach you i'll teach you exactly how to do it not a skill set i necessarily i don't really need it you know i don't plan on i was like all right well thanks i guess that pigman dude shot a pig from a helicopter with a bow and arrow what yeah really yeah he had to compensate for the down draft you know you have to shoot like way over the pig's head oh because he's shoving his four arrow down that's impressive he shot from about 20 yards too I mean, and it wasn't like that close.

[215] So you're 20 yards with the down draft and you've got to like gauge it all and try to figure out.

[216] That's crazy.

[217] Yeah, but he also killed like 400 of them that day with a machine gun.

[218] I'm not kidding.

[219] 400 piz.

[220] They've done it twice.

[221] Him and Ted Nuggey have done it twice.

[222] They call it a porcalypse.

[223] There's a porcalypse one and there's a porclypice two.

[224] I mean, it's basically like apocalypse now.

[225] That's seen in apocalypse now.

[226] If you're going to eat the deer, look, look, look at the screen.

[227] Oh, my God.

[228] Look up, look up.

[229] If you're going to eat it, then, you know...

[230] Look, he's got a fucking bear.

[231] Look at him.

[232] He's got a bear bow.

[233] He hates pig.

[234] And he's going to shoot this fucking pig from a helicopter.

[235] Look at this shit.

[236] Look at that.

[237] That's incredible.

[238] Boom.

[239] Oh, that's impressive.

[240] That is very impressive.

[241] By the way...

[242] I mean, what do you expect?

[243] Pigs running.

[244] He's in a helicopter.

[245] There's a lot of shit going on there.

[246] You're a shot to take is all I'm saying.

[247] Did the pig pile up?

[248] No. That pig looked like...

[249] That pig looked like it didn't even notice.

[250] Well, they never found that pig?

[251] Oh, yeah, they got that.

[252] pig.

[253] They got them all.

[254] I mean, they killed 400 pigs that day.

[255] I mean, I'm not exaggerating when I say 400 pigs.

[256] Now, when you see pigs like that, are those are not indigenous to the land?

[257] Absolutely not.

[258] No, man, they're from, they're, you're Asian.

[259] They used to be all over from North, North Africa, British Isles?

[260] So they are they are, are they, were they domestic pigs and now they are wild pigs?

[261] It happens a whole bunch of ways.

[262] How?

[263] Do, can I, am I allowed to?

[264] What?

[265] Yeah, every pig.

[266] I just wanted to get into like a geeky pig.

[267] No, no, no, please, go ahead.

[268] I thought it was a secret or something.

[269] Oh, no, no, no, no. Can I tell?

[270] I got confused.

[271] Like, every pig, every pig in, whether it's in a farm, barnyard, feral, wild, okay, Eurasian bore, Razorback, whatever name you here applied to it, all is like Seuss Scrafa.

[272] It's all the same species.

[273] So, prior to domestication by humans, this species was found all over Europe and Asia.

[274] Like, I mean, they were in the British Isles.

[275] North Africa and the Middle East All over, you know, what is now Russia.

[276] Okay, they were everywhere.

[277] Right.

[278] But slowly over time, different people in different areas domesticated and developed domestic strains off of this, you know, Sue Scroffle off the wild pig.

[279] And they then spread it around the rest of the world where it didn't exist.

[280] Like Polynesians brought wild pigs to Hawaii, perhaps 1100 years ago when they showed up there, right?

[281] but then at the same time there's maintained like the actual ancestral population in certain pockets where you really have like the actual wild pig that became the basis like what we got the cow from is an animal called the oryx but the orcs went extinct so now we can't look back and go like so what was the cow right like what did we make cows from but we know in this case what it wasn't it still exists out there so we had where people brought these domestic strains around and inevitably they go feral.

[282] Okay.

[283] So De Soto released pigs, inadvertently released pigs in the new world hundreds of years ago.

[284] And according to Charles, man, that's kind of one of the reasons that that might have been what caused the plagues.

[285] They were carrying.

[286] Yeah, you're talking about that book 1491?

[287] Yeah, yeah.

[288] Yeah.

[289] You know, it might have been the reason that they, a lot of the Native Americans died in such massive numbers from typhists and all kinds of things.

[290] Because they, yeah, it's because like pigs share so many diseases.

[291] But then at the same time, what would start to happen, especially in the late 1800s, early 1900s, is people started going and catching the ancestral pigs, undomesticated ancestral pigs, taking them as wild creatures and cutting them loose.

[292] So in California, a lot of areas in California you go there, and the pigs resemble, and there's some introgression probably from domestic strains, but they really, like, you look at them, you're looking at what we now call like a Eurasian boar.

[293] They got long snout, razor bag.

[294] I mean, everything about them, like straight tail.

[295] Everything about them screams like wild pig, and you're kind of looking at like what is, the wild pig.

[296] In other places, you can go and they're just as wild, but they're feral domestics.

[297] Oh, okay.

[298] How big is the original bore?

[299] How big do those get?

[300] They get, you know, it's funny, there they get big.

[301] They get, you know, they'll shoot ones in the wild.

[302] They can be four or five hundred pounds.

[303] Wow.

[304] I mean, that's, I think that's pretty, that's like a big bore, but they get even bigger than that.

[305] How much of that is muscle?

[306] Oh, yeah, but that pig was such BS.

[307] That whole Hogzilla thing is total BS.

[308] Well, it's a perspective issue for sure.

[309] Well, yeah, well, guys, like, he sees one of these Hogzilla's show him.

[310] He goes, I sold that guy that pig a week ago.

[311] What?

[312] Yeah, you don't know about this.

[313] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[314] And then he turns up and he's got a picture up in the back of his truck.

[315] Which guy is a few of those hogsillas out?

[316] Yeah, those are domestic strains, okay?

[317] And every hogs, like every hogsilla in his past was sitting there on a corn, was on a corn crib.

[318] It's not unusual to make an 1100 -pound domestic.

[319] So that guy basically just -knowed more about livestock than any of all of us put together.

[320] Hold that picture up again.

[321] So that guy basically just cover that thing in dirt.

[322] No, listen, you can take a domestic.

[323] You can take a domestic pig, okay?

[324] Leave him intact or whatever.

[325] Give them all the corn he's going to want, and you can make giant pigs.

[326] Then all you do is you take it out and do a penned place, turn it out on a penned location, and then you go, like, hunt it.

[327] In quotes.

[328] Yeah.

[329] That's interesting.

[330] And they're just buying them and putting out there.

[331] Now, that thing has hair all over it.

[332] You know, Nugent runs those things.

[333] He runs things where he runs like these little.

[334] penned facilities where they got like supposedly wild pigs in the pandarian people come out and pretend to hunt for him and it's like one of these pog zillas it turned up it wound up there's a picture of it there's a picture of the guy with it in the back of his pickup that's hilarious well we it would want to be that some guy bought it for his kid to shoot oh and he cut it out he cut it out on some little parcel land yeah but when you got a wild boar that's 500 pounds how much of that is muscle they got a high yield man speaking of A lot of game animals, like, 40 % yield.

[335] I mean, pigs got a high yield.

[336] I mean, on a wild one, it's got to be 50 % yield.

[337] Ronella and I, okay, we shot this pig.

[338] It's at 515, okay?

[339] 5 .15 p .m. It gets dark at 5 .30.

[340] And the pig is probably like 200 pounds.

[341] We take this pig, and I shoot it, and it rolls down this fucking hill.

[342] I mean, this hill is, like, really steep.

[343] Yeah.

[344] I mean, like, hard to walk up.

[345] Like, really steep to just walk.

[346] You kind of have to crawl up it.

[347] So we have to figure out how to get this pig out.

[348] We try to drag it up with this guy's cord He tries to pull it with his truck That's a good word for that rope Yeah, it's a cord The cord keeps catching on rocks and snaps It snaps twice So we're like, fuck, what do we do?

[349] So we're trying to figure out what to do it Well, I said Frick Yeah, he said Rick So Steve says we should cut it We should butcher it, cut it up And then walk up the hill with it But Cody, the guide says You guys should kick it down to the bottom of the hill There's a creek bed there And you'd be like pushing it the whole way and then at the end of it is the street and uh i'll come get you the street well i guess he was a little off in his fucking topography he didn't really recognize how fucking far the hill goes down right we were and by the way pushing a 200 pound pig it's like like it has wheels we tried it we tried to push this thing for like i don't know like two or three hours first of all i yeah you'd roll it just wind up in in like some hell hole and then we wound up in the hell hole you can't float it down there so we're down there it's we're at the bottom now we're nowhere near close to the road we're fucking miles from the road okay and we got this pig and it's pitch black out I mean in pitch black you could see stars in the sky we're hearing twigs snap behind us because there's only like 50 mountain lions up there and Tahone ranch this one fucking waterhole they have he told us we have pictures of 16 different mountain lions at this one waterhole it's a huge ranch this ranch is 27 plus thousand acres yeah California banned lion hunt so you mean you got you know there's a lot of lines they're all over they're all over the place so Steve says look we got to we got to cut this thing up there's no way we're going to get this thing out here we'll cut it up we'll we'll put it throw each throw half over our shoulders and we just carry it out seems most reasonable right we're cutting this thing and Steve's joking oh there's a line behind this I hear a line because we hear like snap crack we hear like twig snapping and we're out there with blood all over our hands pulling hearts out of this fucking thing that's lion bait then we have to carry it and we carry it for what another two fucking hours or something like that and it's starting to get really sketchy because it's super steep it's dark as fuck can't see where we're going i'm slipping all over the place and i'm like i'm gonna i've twisted my knee up kind of fucked up not bad but i'm like i'm gonna fucking break my neck like this is this is kind of crazy we finally get to the bottom after you're like who knows how many fucking hours cody meets us there we want to hang in this pig up but where we came to just so happened to be an ancient shack that they had that they had built during prohibition so that Hollywood people could come up there and drink booze they had a still build out of native timber with fireplaces made out of native rock the most amazing place I'm going to put it I'm going to for folks who are listening right now I'm going to throw photos of it on I'll throw it up on Instagram while we're doing this podcast incredible like you can't even imagine the work to went into this place man yeah it was really fucking it just ran it's just in the ground it's not you can't even you can't drive do it so it's run down and just sitting there now it's like the ruins it's beyond there's no There's no saving it.

[350] Huh.

[351] Yeah, it was really incredible.

[352] So you get to that thing.

[353] Yeah.

[354] We just hung it up off of, we hung it off the overhead, like hanging over at drainage.

[355] Yeah, this is the shack.

[356] So, so let me ask you this.

[357] It's hard to say.

[358] Is there any danger of a mountain line coming to?

[359] Well, we were armed.

[360] No, but I mean coming to get in the meat overnight?

[361] No, I mean, any danger of getting attacked by a mountain.

[362] No, man. In the last, what, 80 years?

[363] In the last 80 years, there's been like, maybe more than 80 years.

[364] There's been six or seven lion fatalities in that amount of years.

[365] Did you hear in Washington State yesterday, an 11 -year -old girl shot a mountain line that was going after her brother?

[366] You want to talk about a little gangster kid?

[367] Wow!

[368] Yeah, pull up that story.

[369] Hold on, 11 -year -old.

[370] Yeah, this was yesterday.

[371] It was a 50 -year -old cat, and apparently the cat was a 50 -pound cat.

[372] Apparently the cat was like real skinny, and they were saying that it was probably just starving.

[373] He was hurting.

[374] That's a small cat.

[375] Yeah.

[376] Yeah.

[377] No, lions, I mean, it drives me to know how some people act like lions are, you know, any more.

[378] ordained, I mean...

[379] Well, you said after all the...

[380] They're not as dangerous as yellow jackets or ground -nesting hornets.

[381] I'm scared of all them, too.

[382] So they're out there...

[383] They can all go fuck themselves.

[384] They're out there with the...

[385] I mean, they're feeding on these hogs at this place.

[386] Oh, they've got to be cleaning house on the woods, man. You know, come on, I can run them down on there.

[387] 11 -year -old girl kills Mountain Line.

[388] Look at this little girl, and they got a picture of the cat.

[389] It's a fucking little girl.

[390] She's 11 years old shot a fucking Mountain Line.

[391] She shot that Mountain Line?

[392] No, there's a...

[393] No, no, no. That's a picture of a...

[394] There's a picture of the girl.

[395] I was like, it must not have been a too stressful of a situation.

[396] She got a nice picture.

[397] Well, the girl, apparently she's a hunter, and her whole family hunts.

[398] And so she knew how to use a gun.

[399] Like, it's a picture of her with a raccoon that she killed that's available online.

[400] She knows how to use a gun.

[401] And this fucking panther was coming after her brother.

[402] And she shot it.

[403] That's a crack shot for an 11 -year -old.

[404] That's great.

[405] Shoot a fucking mountain lion.

[406] So, can I go back to the machine gun out of the helicopter?

[407] Yeah, yeah, we can.

[408] So, needless to say, well, maybe, I will say that that's not something that I have any interest in.

[409] But what I do have an interest in is talking about how good a shot you two were.

[410] I was just amazed.

[411] This is my favorite topic right now.

[412] Well, the Kashmir killer, yeah, exactly.

[413] I learned from Steve Renella.

[414] I learned from the best.

[415] Well, and what was so gratifying about the way you guys hunted and the way you were there.

[416] and I'm just thinking about Brian and how that deer came down through the woods and he's on it and he's on it and it's like, yep, I've got it.

[417] Boom, one shot, down it went.

[418] That's, in my book, the way it ought to be done.

[419] They call me game eye.

[420] Of course, it wasn't that far away, but I appreciate it.

[421] Well, you know what, man, I'll tell you, ever since I started practicing archery and practicing with bows and arrows and I've been doing it for a few months now, you really like shooting, aiming with a rifle when you could actually rest the rifle down on something and look through a scope.

[422] God damn is that easy in comparison to a bow and arrow.

[423] It's effective, man. It's way more effective.

[424] Yeah.

[425] It's fucking hard to, like, to aim at something more than 30 yards away with a bow and arrow, especially, like, a live animal.

[426] For that matter, it's hard to stand with a scope and try to shoot.

[427] I don't think you'd ever do that anyway, right?

[428] Well, I've been doing that.

[429] I've been doing that.

[430] I've been doing that.

[431] I've been doing almost all my practicing.

[432] A whole different ball game.

[433] Well, either sitting, even sitting.

[434] I've been doing almost all my practicing at the range locked into my shoulder because I remember when we were pig hunting, I had one shot, the one pig that I missed, I was trying to rest up against a tree, and I'd never done it before.

[435] I never taken, I was like, I don't know what I'm did.

[436] This is a weird thing.

[437] I try to put the gun up against a tree.

[438] It had felt awkward.

[439] So I've been practicing just like this, just sitting there like this with my elbow up against my body, practicing.

[440] With your knee up?

[441] Yeah.

[442] Just, it's a whole different thing.

[443] Just even, I did a few standing.

[444] It's fucking hard.

[445] Yeah, I don't know many, I don't know many serious hunters who've been in a lot of situations who take even 100 -yard shots without having a rest.

[446] Yeah.

[447] Well, it's also better with it.

[448] I mean, less something's like heading out.

[449] Well, that, yeah.

[450] In fact, that last way we'd want to...

[451] I mean, freehand shooting out to a certain is real deadly out to, you know, at close range, but, you know, you imagine the trajectory of that thing and, you know, if you're an inch off at 10 yards, you're two inches off at 20 yards and on and on and on.

[452] And then you run the risk of injuring the animal.

[453] So, you know, you've got to be careful.

[454] Yeah, they're not getting it.

[455] But rarely when you're hunting, do you get the chance to shoot, you know, as we would off the bench or when we were just practicing in our place?

[456] So you do need to be able to, you know, adjust and lean off of something.

[457] And that was the other thing you did.

[458] When we first got in the blind, I was like, and you were kept pulling the gun.

[459] I mean, I just don't do that, you know, pulling the gun up and pointing it out the window.

[460] I love it.

[461] He's just, like, pointing in different places.

[462] I'm like, yeah, watching him and, okay.

[463] Was that, is that bad?

[464] Well, no, no, I mean, he was moving a lot.

[465] He does move a lot.

[466] Move a lot.

[467] And I'm kinetic, and I kept trying to look through the scope.

[468] You're kinetic?

[469] I go through these weird games where I'm, like, pretending I'm at war, and I'm looking through my scope for the enemy.

[470] The fuck is wrong with you.

[471] Because I'm 12 years old.

[472] Twelve years old.

[473] I'm pretending I'm at war.

[474] I'm such a bitch.

[475] I had a warm thermis in my tummy, and I had all those heating pads.

[476] I stayed very toasty.

[477] But he.

[478] the point is that he then, you know, took the rest, made the shot twice.

[479] Yeah.

[480] And, I mean, he shot two different deer.

[481] And I guess what I was going to say about shooting is that if you are in a situation like, I don't know if it made, I missed a buck on that last day that we hunted.

[482] And, you know, jumped him and he ran and, you know, I had to try, I took like three steps down the hill and he wasn't very far away.

[483] I didn't just clean miss. and but I will I practice shooting that way I mean I don't shoot a lot but I will actually practice you know freehand but I'm not you're right I'm not going to shoot 100 yards or 150 yards at something but 50 or 75 I mean I've killed a lot of deer really close because they get up and run it's amazing how when you get that deer in your sights you know like everything goes away right I mean it's just like it almost feels it's almost like that's the rush Steve you have a thing about your chore list Do you have an Instagram?

[484] Do you have an Instagram?

[485] No oh yeah He says, yeah.

[486] He says no. What is it?

[487] Meat Eater TV?

[488] Media TV.

[489] Media TV.

[490] Steve's is Stephen Reno.

[491] Okay.

[492] It's Steve's and Reno.

[493] Okay.

[494] I've been doing videos on my Instagram with Brendan Scheld.

[495] We're not asking about you, are we?

[496] I was going to, I'll show it to you later, remind me. I'm not really interested.

[497] Oh, no, you are.

[498] I want, you know, I want to make, I want to, I want to have Doug talk about, like, the man, like, the man, like, the deer on his place and all that.

[499] But one thing that's just really bugging the hell out of me is last time I was on here, I said something wrong.

[500] Oh, okay.

[501] I was talking about Tahoean Ranch, and I said they have Tully Elk, which is a native elk in California.

[502] There's like, you know, the Elk would divide like Rocky Mountain Elk, Toulies, Roosevelt's.

[503] And I was saying they had Toulis, which is the native California out on Tihon.

[504] They don't.

[505] There are some real close to there.

[506] But those are Rocky Mountains.

[507] Thank God you cleared that up because it's been bugging.

[508] It's driving me nuts, man. But no, it is important because.

[509] because the tully elk aren't as big.

[510] The Rocky Mountain elk are unusual for that area.

[511] And the only place in California that has them is to hone ranch.

[512] And they busted free from some guy who had a captive facility, and they busted free 50 years ago and now run wild out there.

[513] It's incredible.

[514] We only got to see a few of them.

[515] Fucking tankers, man. Yeah, huge, because they don't have a winter problem like a lot of the elk in the mountains do.

[516] Like, I mean, there was snow while we were up there, but it's not snow where they don't have food.

[517] No, they're getting fat.

[518] They're probably putting fat on right now.

[519] These fucking elk were giant.

[520] We saw some cows, and we saw one bull from a distance, but Steve picked up a shed that was like a fucking limb on a hundred -year -old oak tree.

[521] It was huge.

[522] It was longer than both of my arms.

[523] God.

[524] I mean, they regularly, you know.

[525] What do they weigh?

[526] Oh, 1 ,000, you know, 1 ,200 pounds?

[527] That's a horse.

[528] That's the size of a horse.

[529] They're huge out there, huge out there.

[530] And I should tell everybody that's interested, you can hunt at that place.

[531] They were kind enough to bring us up there and let Steve and I hunt there.

[532] But, you know, anybody can go hunting there.

[533] You hire a guide and you pay for it.

[534] It's not cheap, but it is a game -rich place.

[535] Yeah, you're looking for a place.

[536] Yeah, you'll get a pig, man. I mean, that's, yeah, but the most economical thing.

[537] Can you hunt elk up there or no?

[538] Yes, you can.

[539] They do.

[540] They do a, yeah, you can, and they do a very, I think that they're saying they, I mean, they kill, like honestly, they kill a handful of elk off that place every year.

[541] Yeah.

[542] But they kill thousands of pigs off that place every year.

[543] They do really aggressive, they do really aggressive pig culling out of their place.

[544] I heard you can't shoot your way out of a pig calling problem.

[545] No, they keep a handle.

[546] I mean, but they, they, I mean, throughout the year, on average, they're killing, like, many, like several a day, just to keep a, just to keep grips on it, you know.

[547] Look at that, look at Joe, look at that.

[548] That's the pig that we shop.

[549] Now, that's a, that is, that's got a long snout.

[550] Is that a, is that a wild pig?

[551] That's a very rough.

[552] Yeah, it's a very Russian -looking Eurasian pig, you know.

[553] That Tihon.

[554] ranch, if you're in L .A. and you're looking for a place to hunt, that is a game -rich environment.

[555] It's only an hour and a half outside of L .A. Real nice folks who run that place.

[556] And that dude, Cody Plank is solid.

[557] Yeah, very, very nice guy.

[558] He's got Mike Toth out there a solid.

[559] Very nice guys.

[560] Both of them.

[561] We had a great time.

[562] Cody was your guide.

[563] Yeah.

[564] Yep, he took us out, short us, everything.

[565] I mean, the place is gigantic.

[566] We saw at least 50 deer.

[567] We saw at least, I don't know how many fucking pigs.

[568] A hundred, easily.

[569] Easily a hundred pigs.

[570] In the two days that we were there, we saw about maybe seven or eight elk, we saw turkeys, we saw about a dozen turkeys.

[571] We saw everything.

[572] I got a buddy in New Mexico whose buddy works out there, like at an administrative level out there.

[573] And he kept down over the years, and this guy hunts like a lot of serious backcountry hunting my friend in New Mexico.

[574] He kept saying, man, you got to go out and see this to a home place.

[575] You would never in a million years guess that's sitting there.

[576] Never.

[577] And then you get up way up high and there's like cedar.

[578] It's like there's a ton of different biotypes there.

[579] You know, you get way up high or there's like cedars and just like you couldn't imagine you can then like drive out of there and go down to LAX and fly yeah an hour and a half I mean it's crazy it is so badass not only that it's a private ranch so there's not that many people up there how big is the ranch like when you said ranch I ever told you weren't paying attention a quarter million acres a quarter million acres if you're talking and he's not if he doesn't get to talk he doesn't listen no I'm not good with numbers but okay but I do want to get something because I do want to bring up something like management you know So they work really hard Out there They work hard to keep a grip on the pigs Because pigs are hard on ground nesting birds For instance there used to be a lot of quail out there They suspect And there used to be a lot of turkeys out there An antelope They suspect that They suspect that One of things might be going on with quail out there Is just pigs You know Because they hammer eggs They like the ground nesting birds So they do a lot to do that But in general But I want to bring up I want to bring up deer I want to talk about deer In southwest Wisconsin Look at that place That's the pigs at the ranch.

[580] Before we talk about deer, the other thing was the two pictures, you had the one of the hogsilla, and that looked like a domestic pig that, I mean, we used to raise on the farm.

[581] Yeah, when I was a kid, we had a big, shorts, snout, as opposed to the one that I shot.

[582] As opposed to the erasured, and that was a good example.

[583] And multi -colored.

[584] But then you go to New Zealand, I hunted pigs in New Zealand, and every one of those pigs looks like something is walked off a farm.

[585] They look, they look gray, and then you throw them in a creek, and they'll get the mud off, and they'll be like black and white and brown, man. Crack is, oh, crick.

[586] If it has a crick, a crick.

[587] A crick is a crick, according to Patrick McManus.

[588] If you can find automotive parts in it, it's a crick.

[589] If it's clean, it's a creek.

[590] And this is most certainly crick -like.

[591] If you went up and down, you'd find a spare tire, making it a crick.

[592] But the other thing about pigs, too, is when I was a kid, we had pigs on it.

[593] I got you were here.

[594] I keep trying to tee.

[595] I keep trying to tee it all.

[596] This is his first time in the media.

[597] Give him a break.

[598] I'm trying to tee dog off.

[599] Talk about his damn farm.

[600] I'm sorry.

[601] So let me talk about the farm for a minute.

[602] Please do.

[603] We raised pigs when I was a kid and had, you know, there were chickens on the farm at one point.

[604] We had dairy cattle and all that kind of stuff.

[605] But the pigs were never anything.

[606] When you say domestic, you could see where as soon as the fences open, they're gone.

[607] You know, they aren't, they're not like Holsteins or even the herfords that you saw.

[608] or the Angus that I had there, that'll, you know, they'll come around, they'll just stand there by and stuff.

[609] Pigs were pretty quick to take up.

[610] He's like, if I got out here, I'm going to eat that some bitch and they're going to the woods.

[611] Yeah, so they'll naturally forage, they'll just go to the woods.

[612] Right, and his, his, Steve's comment about, about the eggs or the quail and the turkey makes complete sense because they're, you know, they're, what do we call it, written around in the, written.

[613] They're rooting.

[614] They're rooting, they're rooting about.

[615] Routing.

[616] And that's what.

[617] they do so they're always you know tearing stuff up so anything that's a ground nester is going to be of course it's going to be in harm's way so it makes complete sense that that's an issue well ain't doing much against the pig and one one sow pig has you know 16 you know between 10 and 20 little ones each time they they they they'll crank out multiple a year meanwhile a deer's putting off one or two fawn a year back to the darn deer again i wonder how ammo rights activists feel about pig hunting because that is clearly an animal that you have to control their population.

[618] Yeah, like, that's the thing in, when I went to New Zealand, all the animals in New Zealand are, not all the animals, but, you know, all...

[619] Game animals.

[620] Yeah, the game animals are all introduced.

[621] And there, the guys that like to hunt there are always complaining about the greenies, you know?

[622] And they're complaining about the greenies in New Zealand is the greenies want to kill all the animals.

[623] Oh, that's hilarious.

[624] Because they want to preserve something.

[625] They want to preserve native.

[626] They want to preserve, you know, New Zealand has ego systems.

[627] So, like, these damn greenies would like to get up in the helicopters and shoot all the animals.

[628] That's hilarious.

[629] That's the opposite of them.

[630] Their greenies are not.

[631] You're allowed to do crazy shit.

[632] They're like, you can hunt Canadian goose with a rifle, right?

[633] Oh, I mean, you do a lot crazy or not.

[634] I mean, there's no, they have active, well, they have active programs.

[635] They have active programs where there's, like, government shooters who are just shooting because they have no predators.

[636] Well, they can't introduce predators.

[637] They can't do that.

[638] No, because they have, they have, the sheep is a huge.

[639] Well, they, sheep cause a major problem with pollution, apparently.

[640] Well, their take on it is they're not going to introduce, they're not going to introduce methane gas.

[641] Methane gas.

[642] Well, I mean, great.

[643] I mean, there's all kinds of.

[644] It literally was a problem.

[645] Smog was a problem in New Zealand.

[646] We looked this up.

[647] It was a problem using from, from their, yes, from their farts, from their farts, from the methane gas.

[648] But I don't think methane forms a smog.

[649] It does form a smog, and it was a major issue.

[650] in New Zealand.

[651] Methane gas was a major smog problem, and I don't know if it still is.

[652] I doubt they put devices on their asses to, you know...

[653] I heard they put bags.

[654] Are you fat?

[655] Are you fat?

[656] So Doug, this place you got, right?

[657] Well, I'm curious about this now because...

[658] Sheep, flatuance pollution law.

[659] Oh, there you go.

[660] I believed him because he said, look it up.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Other times he just says it with authority and expects you to believe it.

[663] He doesn't bullshit.

[664] No, I just...

[665] Brian Carroll talks a lot, but he doesn't bullshit.

[666] shit.

[667] No, I know.

[668] I don't say.

[669] That's incredible.

[670] Isn't that amazing?

[671] Well, it's an issue in California, too.

[672] I knew it was an issue in Pennsylvania.

[673] My parents used to live in Harrisburg, and there was an area that I used to drive.

[674] When I was living in New York, I'd drive to Pennsylvania.

[675] There was an area where you could not roll your fucking window down.

[676] You couldn't do it.

[677] You would die.

[678] Mnour pools.

[679] Just like it smelled like ammonia?

[680] Yeah.

[681] So bad.

[682] It stunk so horribly.

[683] It made you not want to eat meat.

[684] It really did.

[685] You know, when I went to China when I literally in 1985 okay I think it was in fact it was 1983 I was with my family went to the mainland of China and I don't know if I were telling you this we go to a restaurant in Canton where is that doesn't matter oh you told me about this and underneath the restaurant we're pigs so under the restaurant were pigs a lot of pigs the pigs were eating the shit so you would take a dump and it would come down and the pigs would eat the shit and then they would eat all the slops from the restaurant but they were eating human feces and then they were eating those pigs and then they were eating those pigs they remember that joke it's like that joke the punchline is I had lunch of them two weeks ago Monday you know a joke no oh never mind but that was that wasn't that always the job of a of pigs didn't they eat really gross stuff they'll eat anything my dad used to always say you lay there long enough and he'll eat you that was like his oh they will that's the number one animal that kills livestock that kills farmers.

[686] Oh, really?

[687] Yeah, a guy died recently.

[688] They think he might have had a heart attack.

[689] I think it was in Washington State.

[690] He fell into his pigsty, and they just fucking devoured him.

[691] They found his clothes, like parts of his clothes left.

[692] They say that the mafia in, like, Italy would feed his dogs.

[693] Well, there's in that movie Snatch.

[694] The movie Snatch.

[695] Yeah, and it's in the Deadwood.

[696] They disposed the car.

[697] Oh, that's right.

[698] But it's true.

[699] There it is.

[700] There's a scene.

[701] They'll eat your head and everything, huh?

[702] there's a scene clean it up that guy was awesome the best thing to do is feed them to pigs you've got to starve the pigs then the sight of a chopped up body will look like curry to a piss head you've got to shave the edge of your victims and pour the teeth out for the sake of the pig is digestion you could do this afterwards of course but you don't want to go siving through pig shit now do you they will go through bone like butter You need at least 16 pigs to finish the job in one setting.

[703] So be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm.

[704] They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes.

[705] That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute.

[706] Hence the expression, as greedy as a pig.

[707] God, is that guy freaky?

[708] Oh, my God.

[709] That was a great camera.

[710] character that guy.

[711] What a great movie.

[712] I just realized I've never seen that movie.

[713] You never seen Snatch?

[714] No. Really?

[715] I've never seen it.

[716] Fucking tremendous movie.

[717] That's Guy Ritchie's masterpiece.

[718] Wow, I gotta see that.

[719] Oh, that's a great movie, man. I like Locke Sock and Two of Smoking Burroughs.

[720] That's the, so you never saw the, the, uh, Brad Pitt character?

[721] I saw a little of it where he's a boxer, yeah, but he has the accent that was, yeah, what people say, yeah, it's, gypsy.

[722] What's the word cock, cockney?

[723] No, it's not cockney.

[724] It's like a, it's a gypsy accent.

[725] They have, like, a gibberish sort of a way of talking where you really can't understand them.

[726] It's a really difficult to understand.

[727] They use rhyming slang and stuff.

[728] I've heard it in London.

[729] You can't understand the thing they're saying.

[730] He travels.

[731] He's worldwide.

[732] I won't lie to you.

[733] I travel a great deal.

[734] What were we talking about right before the podcast started where I said...

[735] Who can't?

[736] We're talking about me now.

[737] I said you have to bring this up on the podcast.

[738] Oh, yeah.

[739] About, about...

[740] So I did a podcast today with a guy from crack .com, Dan O 'Brien.

[741] I wrote a really funny book called How to Fight Presidents.

[742] He literally took every president in the history of America to see who is the baddest ass who was the one guy you wouldn't want to fight and who would win in a fight if they were pitted against each other it's in some ways the greatest book of all time like I said I go this is going to be the greatest podcast of all time it was the funniest thing because we got into a heavy heated argument about who would win in a fight and you got to put a couple of presidents up at the top of the list you got to put Abe Lincoln because he was renowned for his physical strength there is it's about he fought vampires too right well he did but he used an axe.

[743] He used an axe.

[744] But A. Blankham was 6 -4 and had, what's that disease where your arms are longer?

[745] You have really long arms, like longer than your body.

[746] He had crazy long.

[747] And he was, he was known to be really strong and very, very tough.

[748] Honest, he was.

[749] Honest Ab was.

[750] I'm sorry?

[751] Honest Ab was.

[752] I think you also have to think of people that lived during that era.

[753] They're a lot tougher.

[754] Oh, yeah.

[755] They grew up doing everything with their hands, right?

[756] Building things.

[757] Andrew Jackson was a general, I mean, he committed a little something called genocide.

[758] If you talk to historians, are like, well, he killed a great deal of Native Americans with extreme prejudice.

[759] So he...

[760] I don't know.

[761] What do you think?

[762] That's not a...

[763] I wouldn't.

[764] That's a strong word.

[765] It's a strong word.

[766] What do you think?

[767] It's a strong word.

[768] I don't think disease...

[769] I don't think disease transmission counts.

[770] I agree with you.

[771] Is that what I mean, he did lead.

[772] He did, he was a soldier and did, I mean, he was a...

[773] He clearly probably killed a lot of men with his bare hands.

[774] I mean, not his bare hands, but certainly with a gun or a knife.

[775] I mean, he was a pretty warlike fella.

[776] Yeah.

[777] And, in fact, challenged, he had a number of duels.

[778] Historians are actually, he got shot and lived most of his life with a bullet in his ribcage.

[779] He had shitty guns back then.

[780] Well, yeah.

[781] But he had it.

[782] He had, there's a debate how many duels he actually had.

[783] When you have, when there's a debate on how many duels, you're a fucking president.

[784] You're a bad motherfucker.

[785] Or you're an idiot.

[786] Right.

[787] You keep getting a duels.

[788] Well, he got shot because he let the guy take the first shot.

[789] He goes, take the first shot.

[790] Guy shot him.

[791] Then he shot the guy.

[792] and lived that way for the rest of his life.

[793] He had a gaping wound that would cause problems periodically.

[794] You take the first shot?

[795] That's what he's retarded.

[796] You got Andrew Jackson, who's 6 -2, pre -athletic.

[797] That just seems like a bad idea.

[798] He had to be drunk.

[799] George Washington was 6 -4, who was a tough guy?

[800] George Washington was 6 -4?

[801] Yes, he was.

[802] People weren't that big that time.

[803] I know.

[804] He was a giant.

[805] How tall you?

[806] Six -four.

[807] Jesus Christ.

[808] George Washington was as big as much -motherful?

[809] George Washington could have beat Doug up.

[810] No, no, no, no. I got my money on.

[811] Doug.

[812] George has wooden teeth.

[813] He's got a fucking goofy wig on.

[814] He pulled that wig off.

[815] He's all insecure about his hair.

[816] That long coat that's going to get caught up in his legs.

[817] Yeah, you pull that wig off.

[818] He's not going to know what the fuck to do.

[819] He's going to search for his wig.

[820] You kick him in the dick.

[821] Next thing you know, you're pulling out his wooden teeth and beating the shit out of him.

[822] I got my money on Doug.

[823] But then there was Lyndon Johnson, who is also 6 '4.

[824] But Teddy Roosevelt who practiced, who boxed, wrestled, and practiced judo with the guy who brought judo to the United States, the first judo guy, and was obsessed with all things wrestling and fighting.

[825] He was about 5 -10 and very thick, but a very sickly kid, died of heart disease, had a weak heart.

[826] So I don't know.

[827] My thing is Gerald Ford played football and could have played for the Bears as a middle linebacker.

[828] That says a lot when you play in the NFL.

[829] So I might have to go with – we had a huge discussion about this for a good hour on the Brian Callen Show.

[830] And it was a good time.

[831] I got Lincoln.

[832] But no, that's not what you were talking about.

[833] Oh, I'm sorry.

[834] So then he said, I said, what about Barack Obama?

[835] And he got quiet.

[836] Dan's a comedian, really good guy.

[837] He got quiet.

[838] And he said, well, I can't really, you know, I'd rather leave that alone.

[839] I said, why?

[840] He said, well, I try not to, you try not to include any living presidents because it caused too much trouble.

[841] I said, what do you mean?

[842] He said, well, I went through sort of a thing about how, you know, Barack Obama's not that tougher president, and it'd be easy to kick his ass.

[843] And, you know, I was doing it tongue and cheek.

[844] You'd probably kick him here, and he's kind of skinny, and you could take.

[845] And he gets a call from the Secret Service.

[846] because he posted it as a blog.

[847] He posted it as a blog from crack .com.

[848] Well, he said the reason, the only blog that's not up there anymore is that because he got called down to the federal building, I believe.

[849] I think that's what he said.

[850] It's on my podcast.

[851] And he had to go line by line with these agents on what he meant by what he was saying.

[852] And he was like, well, I said, you know, I said Dick Tornado instead of a penis cyclone because it's kind of funnier.

[853] He was trying to teach them humor.

[854] These guys were totally fucking humorous.

[855] He got all nervous.

[856] He was like apologizing.

[857] They made him take it down.

[858] And it was a chapter that was omitted from the book, I believe.

[859] So I was like, we live in America.

[860] Now, you have to be careful when you've threatened the president.

[861] You will get called.

[862] But guys, guys, come on.

[863] Come on, man. I mean, and he took.

[864] They probably can't.

[865] They probably can't.

[866] Well, they said, there's probably no way to go like, yeah.

[867] They probably knew, of course, he's joking.

[868] But there's a thing that you set in.

[869] ocean a certain set of.

[870] That's what happens because they said we will subpoena everybody that made a comment on your, on the blog, like kick his ass.

[871] And Dan said, well, it's a bunch of 14 -year -olds, have fun with that.

[872] And the main guy had called him first.

[873] He goes, look, I know you're kidding.

[874] I know you got a sense of humor.

[875] You got to go down and talk to these guys.

[876] It's just the way it is, pal.

[877] Yeah, I had shotgun ammo in my bag one time going through the TSA line and Anchorage.

[878] And they're like, you got shotgun ammo on your bag.

[879] And I'm like, hey, I said, I know my brother, I didn't know, but me of my brother were Tarmigan hunting this morning.

[880] I kind of like, and they say, and everyone's like, of course that makes sense.

[881] Of course we know that that's true.

[882] Yeah.

[883] But now, because you did this, we now got to act a certain way and run through a whole set of things, and it's really annoying that you had that shit in your bag, dumbass.

[884] Yeah.

[885] You know.

[886] Same thing happened to me when I was going up to Alaska last summer.

[887] I had three rounds, 36 rounds, and a pair of gloves that I just threw in the bag at the last minute.

[888] and yeah they took that real seriously they get the sniffing around there you go well there's the you know you're live rounds in your bags or a night I was I had no idea that can be a problem yeah but without the rifle or a gun to shoot them I was it going to do hit a hit him with a nail but you can't even you can't fly with a shotgun choke what's a shotgun choke that's a thing like what a shotgun barrel on the end of the barrel like there's a monter's constriction or not and so when you talk about like you heard the term full choke okay full choke is like tightly constricted anyways now they make shotguns have a threaded sure yeah now they make shotguns I can see it on your forehead oh yeah full choke not a partial joke because I always go for the full choke so there's like improved cylinder modified cylinder full choke ski choke so they make a threat you're talking about sex now right They make a threaded thing on the end, and you can put in variable chokes.

[889] That one in the middle has a variable choke.

[890] Okay.

[891] Why do I have a boner right now?

[892] That's so weird.

[893] The one on the right has a variable choke.

[894] Oh, I see.

[895] So, yeah, fix.

[896] All right.

[897] So anyways, you can't fly the choke.

[898] And I just think that that's ridiculous.

[899] But then I started realizing, what of you and like 20 of your buddies all have some dinky little shit and gun part?

[900] And you're all waiting in line to get on the plane.

[901] That's right.

[902] You're like, well, it's just a barrel.

[903] Well, what you're just a barrel?

[904] And it's like, I just got a trigger.

[905] That's what the national security, they always talk about now with 3D printers, the threat of being able to print your own gun.

[906] That's a big, yeah.

[907] That's a big issue.

[908] I was just talking about that.

[909] Yeah.

[910] I got pulled out a line flying to Washington, D .C. from Madison, or no, from Green Bay, with a, I was going to, some friends lived in the D .C. area, and I was going to help him with a patio.

[911] They said, hey, we'll pay for you to come out if you want to help us with this patio.

[912] So I'll put that out there if you ever need any patio work there, kind of.

[913] Yeah, yeah, sure.

[914] And I was late getting to the plane, and so I didn't have a, I just had both of my bags, I was going to check one.

[915] And I had a Mason's chisel and a stonehammer in there.

[916] He's like, you can't go on there with those things.

[917] I'm thinking of myself, a Mason's chisel and a hammer.

[918] And a stone hammer, yeah.

[919] And by the way, you're big enough to actually kill an entire plane with those two, with those two weapons.

[920] You know what's weird there.

[921] We're arbitrary about that.

[922] Like, you can't bring a pool cue on, but you could bring a, skateboard.

[923] And if I had a fight a guy and he had a pool cue and I had a skateboard, I would fuck him up with a skateboard.

[924] Skateboards are really hard to break.

[925] You'd be hard to land a shot with a pool cue on a guy who's got a skateboard by the trucks.

[926] Well, pool cue's break.

[927] Like, defending.

[928] Pool cues break.

[929] They break pretty easy.

[930] I've seen guys break get mad at a shot and whack their stick and snap even the butt.

[931] They can break the butt.

[932] Yeah, but if he could put just put some kind of rod inside there and make a really tough pool queue.

[933] You could do that.

[934] You could do that, but I'm assuming they're going to I understand what they're coming from.

[935] I mean, they'll let you take deer antlers on if you cover the tines.

[936] You could wreak havoc.

[937] I'd attach that.

[938] I'd attach that to my head.

[939] I'd attach that to my head and run and shoot ape shit through the fucking that.

[940] By the way, by the way, there was a story about this huge, this huge, there's a story.

[941] He played in the NFL for a long time as a defensive end.

[942] He's a giant man. Are you going to name drop?

[943] No, I don't know his name.

[944] But he got crazy on the plane.

[945] What?

[946] he's bipolar.

[947] He's not tried to pull the door off the plane mid -flight.

[948] Oh, Christ.

[949] So he's trying to pull the door off this.

[950] He's 270 pounds, all muscle, played in the NFL.

[951] And nobody knew what to do.

[952] He was having an episode.

[953] Finally, I think instead of attacking him, because everybody would have died, the stewardess talked him down to sit down.

[954] He ended up going to jail for it.

[955] But I think about how scary that would be with a giant trying to pull a door off a plane.

[956] A little bit.

[957] Yeah.

[958] Yeah, that's scary shit, man. Because if you get a plane full of cowards, you really fucked.

[959] You know, if you get a plane full of cowards or people with asthma or something, you know, you've got a real situation going on, man. What?

[960] Cowards in asthma?

[961] Nothing probably emboldens a plane full of cowards quite like some dude trying to rip the door open up.

[962] One fear, one fear overrides, the other fear.

[963] I think how long it takes to open up a door.

[964] It doesn't take that long, and, you know, anybody hesitates.

[965] Yeah, because I imagine the vacuum and the...

[966] Yeah, like that kind of stuff.

[967] You basically can't do it.

[968] But turning the...

[969] You can't, really?

[970] You basically can't do it in mid -flight.

[971] Oh, but it's just the physical power involved?

[972] Has anybody ever done it?

[973] No. I've never heard of it.

[974] You can blow a door off, but you can't, you know.

[975] And also, and also, this guy's great.

[976] Everything Brian Callin says just winds up getting validated.

[977] You can look it up.

[978] Unless Brian Wright makes all these little things.

[979] He comes up on the Internet.

[980] He comes over the USB drive full all these little documents.

[981] He's made up.

[982] Here's a really cool piece of trivia.

[983] Here's a crazy, I just found out.

[984] This is a crazy piece of trivia.

[985] If you shot a 30 -odd -6 at a plan.

[986] lane window at the cockpit window it would stop it the window would stop i believe that i didn't i should say i mean yeah because i imagine the stuff because you could potentially hit something at four or five hundred miles yeah that's how thick it is it actually would stop a what's really fucked is that they go down because of birds like that's a real common thing sucking in the engines yeah really yeah that dude landed in the hudson do you know how they keep birds away from runways hunters no higher people they poison them and shoot them and No, no. What you mean to say is, what you mean to say is, like, no, in addition to that.

[987] But in, in, well, for example, in addition to that, don't say no. The fucking guy's right.

[988] Well, well, in addition to that.

[989] In addition to that.

[990] If I may. If I may. In Afghanistan, in Afghanistan, when, you know, where they were in Kabul.

[991] In Kabul and in Kandahar, where they, when they, when they're always taken off, right?

[992] So how do they keep birds away?

[993] They had a lot of them.

[994] Do you know what they do?

[995] Take one guess.

[996] Come on.

[997] Think.

[998] But I just took a, I did better than taking guess.

[999] I just named a litany.

[1000] But you're a liar.

[1001] So here's the thing.

[1002] No, you're right, but here's what they do.

[1003] They get Peregrine Falcons.

[1004] They get two Peregrine Falcons.

[1005] And they literally fly the Paragrin Falcons in a circle around the earth.

[1006] And the birds don't want to get up.

[1007] They stay the fuck away from, yeah, they stay away from the falcon, which was surprising to me. All of them see the Peregrine falcon, they're like, I want to stay away from that.

[1008] And all the birds stay down.

[1009] So then you've got to put a transmitter on the falcon, so no one sucks that into his engine.

[1010] Well, I don't know, but the guy had it on his arm, and that's how they did it.

[1011] That's pretty surprising.

[1012] I didn't know that.

[1013] At the time of European contact, we had X number of white -tailed deer living in this country.

[1014] And they were nearly decimated at a point in time.

[1015] Now we have 100 million deer, far, far, far more white -tailed deer.

[1016] Live here now than at any time in history.

[1017] Doug will jump in at any point.

[1018] When Doug was a kid, what was a big deal, Doug?

[1019] It was a big deal to see a deer around our area.

[1020] He would run home and tell his mom and dad.

[1021] People would get in a car and drive out.

[1022] I mean, you go out in the evening.

[1023] I mean, we still get out in the evening and drive around and look for deer, but you're really disappointed if you don't see any.

[1024] But you went up north hunting.

[1025] My grandfather, according to my dad, who never makes anything up, hunted deer would go over to the Baraboo Hills on the edge of the Driftless area, and that was the only place that were a white -tailed deer.

[1026] And as a kid, I just don't remember seeing that many deer.

[1027] My dad used to go up north deer hunting, and they would bring deer back from up there.

[1028] But then when I got to be 14 when I was in, you know, in high school and started playing basketball and whatnot, we couldn't go away for opening weekend.

[1029] We went north the first couple of years.

[1030] So, you know, we'd go up north and hunt like crazy to see one or two deer.

[1031] and not get one.

[1032] And so then when I was 14, we started hunting on the farm.

[1033] I'm like, wow, I got a deer right away.

[1034] But you're absolutely right that the management of the white -tailed deer in Wisconsin is a real success story, even though, you know, newspaper articles and whatnot to the contrary that it's been such a...

[1035] Well, someone argued too much of a success because it wasn't to, like, for the last few years, you couldn't shoot a buck until you killed a dough.

[1036] Right.

[1037] We had a thing called Earnabuck.

[1038] In fact, we still do after you shoot your first buck.

[1039] We kind of got into that whole thing about how many tags can you get?

[1040] And it's like, well, in our area, you can shoot as many deer as you have bullets for.

[1041] But you're absolutely right.

[1042] And well, they're such an adaptable creature.

[1043] My sister lives up in the city called Ashkosh, and they live kind of on the edge of town.

[1044] Not really that much to the edge of town.

[1045] But there's a little quarry there.

[1046] armory and whatnot, and they have wildlife problems there.

[1047] Deer and turkeys both, and they've had to do a whole thing where they brought in, they bring in snipers to shoot them because there were a bunch of bohunters that said that they would do it.

[1048] Well, just let us come in and we'll do it.

[1049] Yeah, well, why would we have the public do it when we can pay government officials?

[1050] They weren't government officials.

[1051] This is private snipers.

[1052] Why would we have the public pay to be able to do it when we could just pay someone else to come in and do it real discreet and quiet.

[1053] Well, that's what's going on right now in the Hamptons.

[1054] You know, the stories coming from the Hamptons, they have a huge deer problem in the Hamptons.

[1055] We're all these, you know, multimillion -dollar estates and giant houses up there, and they're going to hire snipers.

[1056] Yeah, they're dicking around with trying to give the deer contraceptive.

[1057] Hundreds of thousands of dollars are going to spend trying to eradicate these deer with birth control and with snipers.

[1058] Wow.

[1059] I had a landscape business in Dork County, which is the thumb of Wisconsin.

[1060] And, you know, so it's a lot of folks from Chicago and Milwaukee, Madison, we have places up there, and one person would want to raise hostas and all these exotic flowers and whatnot, and the next one would want to see deer.

[1061] And the deer would eat the flowers.

[1062] Exactly.

[1063] I mean, you'd pull into places, and the deer would be laying right in the bed.

[1064] My mother in Connecticut spent, like, literally, like, I don't know how long planting this beautiful garden.

[1065] I remember she had, like, flowers.

[1066] The minute they bloom, man, literally it was just a decimation.

[1067] The deer came in and just ate them all.

[1068] My mother went to the store to go find a crossbow.

[1069] She said, I want to buy a crossbow.

[1070] And the guy goes, for what?

[1071] She goes, because I want to kill all the deer on my property.

[1072] She had a garden.

[1073] It wasn't a big, it wasn't like, it was a yard.

[1074] And the guy goes, you can't kill a bunch of deer.

[1075] It's not legal.

[1076] He goes, I don't care.

[1077] I'm going to kill the deer.

[1078] And then he had to explain to her, like, what kind of line it would be.

[1079] A little more involved.

[1080] It's a little more involved in that.

[1081] But she literally was going to kill, you know, she never shot a crossbow, but she thought it'd be easy.

[1082] I had a client in Dork County, an older woman that liked the deer.

[1083] but she really liked all her different gardens and whatnot as well.

[1084] And somewhere along the line, she got this idea that if you buried wine bottles upside down, sticking out of the ground in a perimeter around your place, that the deer would hit those, and then they wouldn't come in any further.

[1085] And then they'd blow their mind and maybe like, no way am I going in there?

[1086] Glass!

[1087] So she was, yeah, so she was drinking a lot of wine to surround that place too, which I may have been a part of the whole floor.

[1088] Sounds like an excuse.

[1089] Yeah, excuse for an alcohol.

[1090] But you'd go in here.

[1091] What they got going on in this area where we hunted in November is, you know, what's going on in the state of Wisconsin, a bunch of other states, is you have CWD, it's chronic wasting disease.

[1092] Chronic Wasing Disease is the deer and elk version of mad cow.

[1093] So it's with cow, we say mad cow or like with Jacob, Joyce.

[1094] Yeah, and then you have in sheep, scrappy, deer and elk, they call it chronic wasting disease.

[1095] So how are they?

[1096] So far, they haven't found, and some people say, like, we, wouldn't know yet but they haven't found where any human has contracted you know hasn't contracted mad cow from well it's jacob christ felt any human hasn't contracted from deer and elk hasn't happened yet but a lot of states are taking measures to try to get a handle on this and they're they're taken where you can't move some some states you can't move deer bones from other states into the state you can't move deer bones out of the state um one thing that could be driving the transmission of this is just having way too many deer.

[1097] Another thing that drives transmission of deer diseases bringing them into like an unnatural proximity is baiting deer.

[1098] So you go out and put a bunch of corn down, you get eight deer standing there, nose and nose and nose all eating corn.

[1099] It's not, they're not configured in a way that's really replicable in a natural setting.

[1100] Like deer tend to graze a little bit further apart and they're not sharing swap and spit quite so much.

[1101] In Wisconsin, they got the CWD area where they're trying to.

[1102] to coal knock back numbers.

[1103] So we're on the northern edge of what they call the CWD management zone.

[1104] And actually right before I came out here, I checked the map to see how close they test deer and obviously they test deer for it.

[1105] And the latest ones are about three miles south at the farm.

[1106] So next year everything's getting tested.

[1107] You'll send the heads in to get tested.

[1108] Well actually what they the friend of mine actually has a check station now and I didn't know that.

[1109] this year but she was trained to take the lymph notes so you don't have to take the head and do all that kind of stuff so it's a much simpler process but the thing is no one really knows what it means yeah well right and and they have all these recommendations and you guys remember when when we were butchering we were other than the front legs everything was boned and so you're staying you stay away from the spine and that's where you get it right so if you eat the meat if you get the meat the preons are like the preons concentrate and the brain spinal fluid spinal column so even if it was a deer that had it by not you know messing with the spine and whatnot you'll be okay that's the theory because the way they're bumping it from animal to animal is you know it's like bone meal so yeah like that's how you're transmitting around and one of the big arguments against pen raisin livestock to have like faux hunting facilities is that CWD jumped to our wild herds from captive animals.

[1110] I think the ground zero is in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

[1111] It's the first time it jumped.

[1112] Yeah, south of us.

[1113] And if you...

[1114] In Wisconsin.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] On the south side of the Wisconsin River.

[1117] And it was interesting because you were specular, had some information that I hadn't heard before about how it had been transferred and whatnot.

[1118] but raising white -tailed deer as a domesticated animals actually become fairly big.

[1119] You know, one of the big things is antlers.

[1120] Yeah, because you can grow bigger antlers if you got them.

[1121] And they've given them all this stuff and whatnot.

[1122] And, you know, in Wisconsin, that is regulated by the Department of Agriculture, trade, and consumer protection.

[1123] Whereas wild deer, so those are domesticated deer, and wild deer are the purview of the Department of Natural Resources.

[1124] and the two don't so the deer farmers want to stay in the Department of Agriculture and the DNR would like to have a little more control over that yeah because if you because like the the wildlife that's held in the public trust is at detriment from a lot of that deer farmers that's exactly well yeah I'm always I'm actually amazed in the two times I've hunted how well and maybe I'm wrong about this but how well the government does in conservation efforts and in policing, you know, the whole hunt game.

[1125] Well, look what happened when we didn't, man. You got up in the 1920s and 1930s, and we were not just running out.

[1126] I mean, we were going to run out of a lot of game animals.

[1127] I mean, it was on the horizon that we were going to lose many, many species of ducks.

[1128] We were going to lose the wild turkey.

[1129] We were going to lose deer, lose the elk, lose a big horn sheep.

[1130] All to hunting.

[1131] On, like, yeah, like a perfect storm of things.

[1132] Unregulated market hunting being one of the, I'm not trying to downplay the role.

[1133] one of the principal factors but it was going on in conjunction with a lot of habitat destruction or things but yeah just shooting it and selling it unregulated hunting what what animal is and then not even like not regulating what kind of weapons you use you could set charges packed with ball bearings up in trees to blow roosting turkeys out of the trees it was just like it was a free -for -all and it was you know like Daniel Boone man he killed 108 or 116 bears in one year one time hunting on the big hunting on the big sandy in Kentucky so unregulated market hunting caused a lot of damage when it came to the 1920s and 1930s that's when we got this idea where we were going to get aggressive and we didn't do it a second too soon and we came up with certain things like we have hunting seasons bag limits like a ban on the sale of wild game so when you go into a restaurant when you go into a wild game restaurant in the U .S you're getting imported meat or you're getting farm where they're taking elk taking deer, raising them on the farm, killing them, running as a livestock model on wild animals and selling it, and you're not getting, like, hunter -killed wild game, unless they're importing it, you know?

[1134] But then even now, they used to import a lot of stuff from New Zealand, but even now, most that, when you're getting red deer, which is, like, the most common venison -sold in restaurants is red deer, often from New Zealand, sometimes from Scotland.

[1135] Even the stuff from New Zealand, now it's just farmed.

[1136] You know, they used to sell some wild stuff, but the industry's changed so much.

[1137] Is there an animal that is still in danger of being extinct in this country as far as, like, grizzlies are not?

[1138] No. There are many, many animals that are in danger to become extinct, but no game animals.

[1139] No game animals.

[1140] I mean, most of them are expanding or stable in the states under mandates.

[1141] There's a lot of stuff that's, like, little understood.

[1142] I mean, there are many, like, frog species, all kinds of things that are in huge trouble, bird species that are in big trouble.

[1143] But right now with game animals, I take that back.

[1144] not in the danger of being extinct, but in danger of being in big trouble.

[1145] Sage grouse, because of many, many factors, sage grouse are hurting right now, and some people are starting to eye it for endangered species protection.

[1146] It could happen.

[1147] What about eagles?

[1148] I mean, they're not a game animal.

[1149] Eagles are kicking out.

[1150] You mean, bald eagles?

[1151] They're the new crow, man. Yeah, that's a huge success story.

[1152] They're the new crow.

[1153] That was something that was really a big deal to see when I was.

[1154] a kid bald eagle we have them coming through the farm all the time really oh yeah just get a DDT man all they had to do is get what about golden eagles hold on a second DDT so DDT was killed they made their eggshells too thin they crushed their own they crushed their own eggshells so that was what they were using for pesticides just turn that turn that shit around so fast yep yeah wow no like wood ducks what they realized the wood ducks we almost we were going to lose wood ducks what they realized wood ducks old dead trees like wood ducks are cavity nesting duct It's kind of a funny idea, but is wood duck, like lands a damn tree, walks into a hole in the tree, and is the cavity nester.

[1155] Various, you know, factors at play, we lost a lot of these big old cavity trees.

[1156] People brought the wood duck back by just guys who like to hunt ducks going out and building these little things that look like a mailbox on a post.

[1157] We had a couple of them up, well, we weren't by those places.

[1158] But then even in our forestry program on the farm, we leave wildlife trees.

[1159] Oh, yeah, you mark them, man. You mark them with a big W. If it's got a hole in it, yeah, if it's got a cavity.

[1160] One, it's not worth of shit anyways, probably, because you're going to cut into it, and it's going to be rotten wood.

[1161] Two, it's wildlife habitat.

[1162] But you make these fake ones by putting a mailbox on a pole, take some sheet tin and tack it on there so raccoons can't climb it.

[1163] And all of a sudden, like, overnight, boom, wood ducks are back.

[1164] Now, I know that they have issues with pesticides, certain pesticides being a problem with bees.

[1165] Are they doing anything about that?

[1166] Well, like colony collapse disorder?

[1167] Yeah, they've got real issues.

[1168] So, funny you bring that up.

[1169] One of the things that I'm going to do when I get back to Wisconsin, is to, there is in the latest farm bill, some funding for encouraging farmers to plant bee -friendly forbs in their pastures.

[1170] And again, right by where Ryan and I were hunting out in that open field, I planted about two -thirds of an acre of pollinator habitat.

[1171] What does that mean?

[1172] Like, like, brilliant flowers?

[1173] Yeah, so that there's flowers that different.

[1174] stages of the season, you know, how much is two -thirds of an acre going to do?

[1175] I don't know.

[1176] But since I'm putting so much of the farm back into conservation reserve program, which means we're planning it to grasses and Forbes and whatnot, when I get back, I'm really going to look into this.

[1177] And because a lot of interesting things, a lot of it, like alfalfa and clover and those are things that deer like, too.

[1178] And turkeys like and, you know, other wildlife like.

[1179] And then during the flowering time, of course, the, the, Bees are a part of it.

[1180] But it's kind of cool in this most recent farm bill in the conservation measures.

[1181] I mean, it's not, it was like $3 million for the entire Driftless area, or the Midwest, I'm sorry, not just the Driftless area.

[1182] But, you know, when you start to parse that up into bags of seed that people will go into the other, I'll overseed my pasture with it or add that mix in with my CRP and what, hell, I'll do that without them paying me to do it.

[1183] That's interesting.

[1184] You know, what I've heard is that there's also some connection to genetically modified crops.

[1185] that some crops have been genetically modified to make them more resistant to certain bugs and that this is what's fucking a bees.

[1186] Is that truth in that?

[1187] I think there's truth in that.

[1188] The GMOs certainly could have a part of it.

[1189] We were talking about her daughter, at your daughter before, and my daughter, who's 17, who's taking a biotech class right now, that's one of the things that they've been talking about.

[1190] And my hackles go up when you say GMOs, and interestingly, she kind of talked me down from it because she's on both sides of the thing.

[1191] I honestly think that the pesticides probably have more to do with it than anything.

[1192] I mean, we're using insecticides on everything, you know.

[1193] And the idea that, you know, in our area, you saw it, the crops are essentially two things, corn and soybeans.

[1194] And so you've got these monocultures and, you know, there's, and they're all GMOs.

[1195] They're all Roundup Ready.

[1196] That's the big, you know, the big thing.

[1197] What does that mean, Roundup Red.

[1198] Roundup, the herbicide glyphosate, which is a non -selective herbicide, means it'll kill everything.

[1199] But not the crop.

[1200] But it was regretted as having the toxicity of coffee.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] Like if you went to drink the stuff, you know, but it's, I mean, that's been what people have said for a long time.

[1203] Glyphosate or Roundup has always been the friendly herbicide because it doesn't, it, when it hits, it does its job on the plant.

[1204] And it goes into the plant.

[1205] The plant dries down and dies.

[1206] the um doesn't it grow itself to death in some way or like expends well that's right but the the chemical then um doesn't translocate in the soil there's chemicals you know herbicides and whatnot i was spraying one um a couple of days ago that i'm real careful with it i'm out in the woods spraying um uh basal bark applications to kill undesirable trees and you know you're careful with that stuff you kill undesirable yeah what kind of trees are undesirable in this case red maple remember the woods where we walked where all it was just the big giant tree trees where it opened up and it was yeah i'm trying to regenerate red and white oak in there and they're a red and white oak are a sun -loving species so they they that sun needs to hit that hit the ground they're real the oaks don't grow real fast either and then first their first two or three years they spend all their energy sort of building the root system and then after about their fifth year they'll take off but in between all this stuff is grown over the top of them the you know the perennial stuff like burdocks and that kind of stuff don't seem to bother it too much because they're gone you know quite a bit but it's the the shade of the of the other trees so it's a fast red maple is a faster growing tree so they'll get up over the top shade out the oaks and if you don't control that the red maple not sugar maple red maple red maple will take over kill the oaks off and now you've got red maple so what's wrong with me and then to get into the deer thing too though.

[1207] I mean, the deer effect on red oak.

[1208] Well, yeah, and the deer, the deer effect on red and white oak is they like white oak acorns.

[1209] In fact, they prefer white oak acorns, as do turkeys, but they like to browse on red oak seedlings, so the oaks just don't stand a chance.

[1210] Part of the reason why we're trying to kill somebody deer.

[1211] You wanted to know why?

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] Why you love red oaks and don't like the maples?

[1214] In the drifeless area.

[1215] It's the area where the glaciers, the glaciers and mining has really flattened the area.

[1216] Keep going, Doug.

[1217] In the driftless area, it's a pathway from migratory songbirds, first of all.

[1218] And migratory songbirds come up the Mississippi River, and they're traveling long distances.

[1219] The oaks are one of their favored nesting areas and that sort of thing.

[1220] So oaks were a big part of our forest for quite a while because of things.

[1221] like fire and that sort of thing, which we don't have anymore.

[1222] So what's happening is the percentage of oak on the landscape is a lot less.

[1223] So when you have an opportunity or what we're encouraging landowners through this network of first landowners that I work with, when you have an opportunity to regenerate oak, you have a good spot to do it.

[1224] Not every spot where oak is growing now is necessarily a good spot to regenerate oak.

[1225] But when you have a good spot to do that, you should because it's disappearing from our landscape and it's affecting wildlife it's affecting all those sort of things but and also the migratory songbirds so it's really interesting how it's all kind of together it's fascinating the management aspect of that that people decided to take a concerted effort to make one plant grow and make another plant die and encourage you know you to reduce deer population because the deer hammering the seedlings it's an it's an advertent effort to correct an inadvertent wrong I mean so much as our stuff is like we have we live in disturbed ecosystems now and Like, and that disturbance brings about, like, a radically transformed, you know, biome that we live in.

[1226] Right.

[1227] Why do we have so many white -tailed deer?

[1228] Well, because we have all these, we have everything that they need.

[1229] They have crops.

[1230] We have crops.

[1231] We have cover.

[1232] We have water.

[1233] We have all that.

[1234] You know, you made the comment, I don't know if it was on a podcast or when we were just talking.

[1235] So they're like, deer here are so different than the mule deer.

[1236] They're like farm animals that you have to shoot.

[1237] Yeah.

[1238] Which is kind of, you know, that's kind of right.

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] Yeah, deer geese, turkeys, crows.

[1241] They really, you know, because of farming, there they are.

[1242] And there are so many of them.

[1243] So to my mind, it's sort of a bonus, but, you know, that we have that.

[1244] But at the same time, you can't let it run, can't let any of those species overrun things.

[1245] So it's a, you know, it's a balancing act.

[1246] And so on our 400 -acre farm, even in just a little over 200 acres of woods, I have like 16 different areas where we're doing different kinds of management based on what is there that 100 years ago you wouldn't have to have had to have done.

[1247] That we didn't have invasive species, which is one of the huge issues that we have.

[1248] You know, you get the clothes torn off you by that stuff called multifluor rows.

[1249] Invasive species are a big problem.

[1250] Encouraging the different kinds of trees and therefore encouraging different kinds of wildlife.

[1251] And it's all a part of it.

[1252] Unfortunately, you know, Brian was saying before that he thought that the government agencies are doing a great job.

[1253] And, you know, I'll probably get skewered for this, but I think that is the case.

[1254] The Department of Natural Resources in the state of Wisconsin does a heck of a job.

[1255] They're horrible at public relations, but they're really good, they are really good at counting and understanding numbers and, you know, what are carrying capacity.

[1256] And it's in exact science.

[1257] It's not our friend, Stephen and my friend Pat Durkin writes about this a lot.

[1258] And one of the things he says there are hunters out there who think it's like a bathtub.

[1259] Like you can turn the water on to get more deer and then you shut it off and then you can pull the plug and that's not really the case.

[1260] And you'll hear grumbling hunters talk about how the DNR is killing all the deer.

[1261] Well, you know, honestly, I've never seen a DNR.

[1262] Department of Natural Resources.

[1263] Yeah, every state's got, so you get like Department of Fish and Game, Department of Fish Wildlife and Parks.

[1264] government agency that's controlling hunting in each place.

[1265] Could you elaborate, though, when you were saying this?

[1266] Because I want to know, how are they bad at public relations?

[1267] When CWD started, when CWD...

[1268] Chronic wasting disease was discovered in Wisconsin.

[1269] It's only only been in the last 12 years in the early 2000s.

[1270] One of the things that they came out with was we need to eradicate the disease in order to do that.

[1271] We have to kill all the deer in this area.

[1272] Well, if my farm was in that area, I'm not.

[1273] not going to be, I'm going to say, I don't know if we need to.

[1274] I mean, so there's a couple of sick deer.

[1275] Do we need to kill all the deer?

[1276] And then they kind of went into this sort of heavy -handed government attitude of here's what we really need to do.

[1277] Whereas you probably realized this that you were here.

[1278] We weren't really following government regulations on our farm.

[1279] Look at that deer.

[1280] Sick deer.

[1281] That's a deer with CWD.

[1282] Damn.

[1283] And that, by the way, by the way.

[1284] By the way.

[1285] That came from.

[1286] from farms, correct?

[1287] Like, that came from deer farms.

[1288] That came from...

[1289] Well, it crossed from livestock.

[1290] It's a Uragedin livestock disease.

[1291] Cross to...

[1292] Got into some wild herds...

[1293] I'm sorry, got into some domesticated...

[1294] Deer herds.

[1295] Yeah, domesticated deer herds.

[1296] Kepticat and cativities.

[1297] On a recent...

[1298] But it was not originally on a commercial facility.

[1299] It wasn't like a guy out there trying to sell foe hunts.

[1300] It was a research facility, and there were deer coming up and smelling noses with the deer inside this research facility and that's what they think correct me from wrong this is this is everywhere on the web for you guys well i thought it was well i thought it was so that there's a fence between the domesticated deer and the wild deer and they touched each other somehow or another yeah so i i don't i really don't have um knowledge of that because it's i i've asked a lot of where how did this start in wisconsin and there's a lot of people don't seem to have the answer and and you don't get that answer from the government guys And then you talk to the private guys.

[1301] But if you go into southwest Wisconsin, there's an area, a county there, and the town that I'm thinking of is Hollandale.

[1302] And if you look at a CWD map, it was just massive.

[1303] So there was a sort of ground zero.

[1304] And I don't have any knowledge of interest.

[1305] Yeah, and how many states is it in now, though?

[1306] Well, it's in Illinois now, too.

[1307] And they expect that this came from out of the west.

[1308] Oh, really?

[1309] Well, because it had been in.

[1310] There you go.

[1311] Yeah.

[1312] That's crazy.

[1313] So we're, our farm is up where the, that's just Wisconsin, Illinois.

[1314] There's some other states have had some CWD.

[1315] Our farm is where the, the top part of the D is on CWD behind the thing in there, right in there, yeah.

[1316] So that's where it, so that's six to in 2005.

[1317] And if you were to find a more recent map, D &R has those out there, it's just spreading and it's being spread.

[1318] And this makes sense to me that there are so many deer in some areas that they're, especially, young bucks are getting pushed out because big daddy doesn't want them around and so they get pushed out and they're the ones who are um there you go it's a scary disease man um but it's we don't know but that's the thing is like we don't know if it is or not because there are all manner of wildlife diseases yeah some imported some that have always been here that periodically come through and wipe out you know 70 80 90 percent you get blue tongue tularemia rabbits all kinds of things like now and then you get a bunch of animals the animals get sick a ton of them die you have some disease tolerant individuals and it comes back one thing we try to do when I say we like I work for the government one thing that our wildlife model generally tries to do is take out some of the peaks and valleys you know I'm impatient with people who get too easily overly critical with state fishing game agencies which I think in the United States of America do a pretty phenomenal job considering And when Doug talked about, like, bad public relations is you make some management decisions.

[1319] And the way guys find out about the management decisions, they open up the rule books.

[1320] There's no explanation of why.

[1321] It's just like, it might be the, you know what, dude, you can't kill, you know, used to be able to kill a dough.

[1322] Now you can't kill a dough in this county.

[1323] Everybody gets really mad.

[1324] And they could go down and be like, why is that?

[1325] And there be some really well -thought, scientifically -based decision about wow is a bad idea for this year to do it.

[1326] But people just see it and they go like, oh, it's the right wing, it's the left wing, it's the, cuckoos, you know.

[1327] Yeah, it's the insurance.

[1328] A lot of times they don't really even bother to really put forth like why we're making these decisions we're making.

[1329] And insurance companies, like that, insurance, triple A, I shouldn't point out one individual, like insurers are generally a force for wanting less deer.

[1330] Agricultural interests, I'm generalizing.

[1331] Agricultural interests are generally a force for wanting less deer.

[1332] Guys that want to go out and hunt are generally a force, want more deer.

[1333] But I heard that the biggest pollution, source of pollution, I may be wrong, is not even cars or anything it's agricultural runoff like that's that's the big hog farms yeah right am i right about that fertilizer phosphorus and the fertilizer going into the water source you know those sort of things yeah nitrates in the in the in the water yeah and that really that's a huge concern they tell that story about that trout stream and that guy to had all that frowning ner laying out can you tell that story well so uh south of us there's a class one trout stream And He's like titty's trout fishing.

[1334] Well, for Southwest Wisconsin anyway.

[1335] What does that mean?

[1336] Good, good fish.

[1337] Titties.

[1338] Titties.

[1339] It said Michigani, Michigan for two.

[1340] That's an expression.

[1341] That's hilarious.

[1342] Titties.

[1343] Like cherry?

[1344] Like that car is cherry?

[1345] Okay.

[1346] That stream is titties.

[1347] Well, I've heard that.

[1348] I've heard cherry.

[1349] Yeah, but if it's chuck full of fish, if your car is chucked full of fish, you'd be like that that car is, they say tities in Michigan, apparently.

[1350] in Wisconsin, it's, that's just...

[1351] Nobody says, Steve Rinald says titty.

[1352] That's my wife's nickname, man. I'll pull it.

[1353] I got her save like that on my phone.

[1354] Oh, man. Nothing wrong with that.

[1355] So, what are we talking about?

[1356] Tell them the story about the, about like a, just a, like a, like a occurrence, you know?

[1357] Okay, so what happened was there are storage, manure storage regulations and whatnot, and times when you're supposed to spread manure and times when you're not.

[1358] And then you've got these huge mega farms.

[1359] Again, when I was like, you saw that barn in that milkhouse, we milked 40 cows in there.

[1360] Well, 40 cows in a barn during the wintertime, you know, once a day you'd go out with a load of manure and spread it on the fields and it wasn't that big of a deal.

[1361] Now you're talking about thousands of cows in a barn, liquid manure going to these huge storage facilities, and there's semi -driving this stuff around.

[1362] Well, in this instance, this was like sort of a medium -sized farm about 500 milk cows.

[1363] So the guy was doing things pretty much right.

[1364] Spread manure, but he spread it on frozen snow and ice and whatnot with a barfers strip back from the trout stream.

[1365] But it rained and melted into the trout stream it went and wiped them out.

[1366] All those fish went tits up.

[1367] Such as it is.

[1368] So it was still tits.

[1369] So it's up.

[1370] Tits up is a lot different than tits.

[1371] Tits up from tits.

[1372] I'm learning so much.

[1373] yeah right that so you know one would argue well let's we should be regulating that well right but then there's the concern that well we're regulating things to death and this sort of goes back to the deer hunting thing you know in the 80s and 90s the deer population went just peaked in Wisconsin it's just huge I mean you saw you thought you saw a lot of the deer opening day and by the way you didn't by the way by the way by the way so the 90s Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there were days when I would see 75 deer opening day.

[1374] Whoa.

[1375] They would come running through.

[1376] A group would come running through.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] That's not good, though, right?

[1379] No, it's not good.

[1380] That's the point.

[1381] Somewhere in between is there's a balance.

[1382] But guys get pretty used to that.

[1383] Guys get used to it.

[1384] That's exactly right.

[1385] I go out and sit and, well, I want to see deer when I go out.

[1386] I want to shoot one every time.

[1387] Well, you know, then they call it shooting and killing, not hunting, you know.

[1388] You know, it's interesting during this podcast, I put up a picture on Instagram or that pig that I shot.

[1389] and I have had a fucking tidal wave of people mad at me. Is that right?

[1390] You shouldn't that pig?

[1391] Not cool, man. Why, they ain't cool?

[1392] Dude.

[1393] I mean, I don't know how many of them are...

[1394] He puts it up again.

[1395] Oh, because you shot a non -native animal that these guys have been eating their entire freaking life in bacon form and had the audacity to, like, actually come face to face with the animal.

[1396] Yeah, I mean, the, the fucking comments on, on Instagram, it's quite hilarious.

[1397] Just so many...

[1398] tapping way over there self -righteous shitheads oh come on you need a filter thing like where you can filter out everyone who's not vegan and then like at least go like okay the vegans you know they have some moral right some consistency yeah i don't even think it's that i mean it's just like people just don't want to see a dead animal they don't want to see it it's true it's true it's this weird disconnect that we have that we talked about on your show we with this weird disconnected people have about their food and they feel even if they're their meat eaters Even if they're wearing leather shoes, they feel like they can take the moral high ground and say there's something wrong with you posing, especially because apparently people don't like the fact that I'm smiling.

[1399] Yeah, but aren't you glad?

[1400] But aren't you glad because you just got all kinds of pork?

[1401] Yeah, I'm happy.

[1402] Cheshire cat, grin.

[1403] I got 200 pounds of pork, and I shot it at 515.

[1404] We had 15 minutes left in the day.

[1405] It was the last chance of romance.

[1406] Yeah, no, you should apologize for being happy about having a windfall of meat.

[1407] It looks like a good shot, too.

[1408] It was a great shot.

[1409] I'm sorry.

[1410] That pig never knew what was going on.

[1411] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[1412] I'm sorry I shot a pig perfectly 160 yards.

[1413] And didn't cry.

[1414] I'm sorry I'm coming over to eat some of that pig.

[1415] Come on.

[1416] I brought a smoker, man. I bought a beautiful Weston smoker.

[1417] I'm brining the pig as we speak.

[1418] I'm brining a ham.

[1419] Why don't we farm venison the way we farm cows?

[1420] Have you been paying attention to the conversation?

[1421] I know we do.

[1422] I know we do with him.

[1423] Come on, Call on.

[1424] I know we do, but we don't do it a lot is what I'm saying.

[1425] I'm surprised that we don't.

[1426] It's such good meat.

[1427] don't we do it as much as we do with cows?

[1428] Because there's a certain problem with one thing is a problem of disease transmission.

[1429] We're going to talk about.

[1430] And there's a thing where there's an aesthetic issue.

[1431] And there is.

[1432] I mean, there's a demand for it.

[1433] The demands met.

[1434] There's arguments we made before.

[1435] One of the arguments against it is we have like an obligation to protect native wildlife.

[1436] Right.

[1437] So keep it native.

[1438] And there's And there's a heritage of having these animals as wild animals that some people feel, myself included, some people feel that there's a sacredness of these animals as wild creatures, you know, and we try to, like, foster their well -being.

[1439] And from a practical standpoint, you know, I don't know how much you guys noticed, but there are some fences around the barnyard and whatnot at our place.

[1440] They're four -strand barbed wire fences.

[1441] and they're kind of, they're mediocre fences is what I would put there.

[1442] The cattle won't bother them.

[1443] They just walk over to them.

[1444] As long as cattle got hay in the bin and whatnot, they just kind of walk over.

[1445] You might get the occasional one who's like, ah, I think I want to get out today.

[1446] Yeah, like the one that destroyed, almost ended your marriage because they ate your wife's garden.

[1447] Yeah, well, I left the gate open.

[1448] So it wasn't really that.

[1449] But if that almost ended your marriage, what fucking shaky is that ground you're saying?

[1450] I was being a little melodramatic.

[1451] It was, yeah, well.

[1452] It was a beautiful garden.

[1453] It was a hanging garden.

[1454] It was a hanging garden.

[1455] I should say something about my wonderful wife.

[1456] If most people, your wife was very cool.

[1457] Yeah, she was very understanding of the whole thing after her.

[1458] You have to understand that she put so much time and energy and love into that garden.

[1459] You want to see my wife smile.

[1460] Call her name when she's in her garden and her head will come up and she'll smile.

[1461] Gardening is fucking fun, man. It's good for you, man. Well, it's much like hunting in a way.

[1462] There's a primal sort of a connection that we have to garden.

[1463] When we grow our own food at my house, we grow tomatoes, we have cucumbers, broccoli, and it's delicious.

[1464] It's so good.

[1465] We cook it and eat it, and it's just something really satisfying about growing something and cooking your hands in the dirt.

[1466] And it's equally satisfying hunting your own food.

[1467] You know, I know a lot of people don't like that because the hunting part is they connect it to cruelty, but it's a primal thing.

[1468] It's a primal thing.

[1469] Oh, I should point out that even though a lot of people have been angry at me, way more people are supporting me. I should say that.

[1470] A lot of people like to focus on the negative.

[1471] Way more positive comments.

[1472] That picture went up 10 minutes ago.

[1473] It was 3 ,950 likes already.

[1474] God.

[1475] That's good.

[1476] Yeah, so it's more positive than negative.

[1477] But there's just a lot of hypocritical bullshit out there.

[1478] And you've got to take the hit in order to sort of get that subject out there.

[1479] That's one of the things about it that I find, now it's up to 4 ,000 as we speak.

[1480] One of the things that I think is important is to take that.

[1481] that hit is to get that conversation going.

[1482] And I think a lot of people that said the negative things, it's a knee -jerk thing.

[1483] It's because we've been shielded from where food comes from.

[1484] We've been shielded from, how do you get meat?

[1485] Well, you don't get meat from a seed, okay?

[1486] You get meat from an animal.

[1487] And it has to die in order for you to eat it.

[1488] And the seat you're sitting in, and your shoes you're wearing.

[1489] No shit, right?

[1490] I got these motherfuckers at Office Depot.

[1491] How many cows had to die for this?

[1492] Nobody has a problem with me wearing a murdered animal skin.

[1493] And if you had a photo of you smile and with your new leather couch.

[1494] No one would give a shit, man. Right.

[1495] That's so true, right?

[1496] Yeah, no one's smiling from your couch.

[1497] You're on cow skin.

[1498] Not cool.

[1499] Or even if you have a steak from the supermarket and you're smiling, I'm cooking.

[1500] I've put up a hundred pictures of me cooking on the grill with a big smile on my face.

[1501] No one cares.

[1502] You have one picture of the actual intact animal.

[1503] You can see its face.

[1504] It's like, I have this joke about how you, you can kill an animal, but you can't fuck it.

[1505] But what you can do is kill it and cut it into a bite, sized portion, a meal -sized portion, and jerk off with it.

[1506] You can use that and wrap it around your dick and jerk off, and no one can really say anything, because we have this weird we have weird disconnect.

[1507] Yeah, you would not go to jail for that, right?

[1508] You can't go to jail for jerking off with a chicken cutlet, but if they caught you in the middle of fucking a chicken, most likely a cop's going to fucking take you down.

[1509] They're going to have a talk, at least with you.

[1510] At the very least, they're going to go, what the fuck is wrong with you?

[1511] I'm tired of my hands.

[1512] I want to call my friend right now as a cop in San Francisco who caught a dude fucking a chicken.

[1513] Look at this picture.

[1514] Here's another thing that Steve Ronell and I had a conversation about the other day about people who complain about hunting, but every fucking restaurant except for a tiny percentage serves meat.

[1515] Like you're dealing with murder houses all over the country.

[1516] I mean, essentially animal murder houses, every fucking Burger King, every McDonald's, every other almost every regular restaurant.

[1517] Cocoes, fucking red barn, whatever it is that you're serving food at.

[1518] Those are murdered animals.

[1519] But we have this weird disconnect.

[1520] This is a picture of me with duck in the window.

[1521] No one complained.

[1522] No one complained.

[1523] Because I didn't kill those ducks.

[1524] That was you and I when we're in Toronto.

[1525] Ooh, yummy.

[1526] We're going to eat a Chinese food.

[1527] No one gives you shit.

[1528] Oh, that's great.

[1529] I love the Anthony Bourdain show.

[1530] He goes and eats at a bunch of place.

[1531] He eats murder!

[1532] That's what he's eating.

[1533] He's eating murder everywhere.

[1534] But we are shielded because we're a bunch of fucking babies.

[1535] We're shielded from that.

[1536] Well, there's certainly a hypocrisy to it.

[1537] one of my an old friend of mine was eating veal one or ordered veal one night and I'm not a big fan of veal because I've been a part of raising them we had a neighbor who used to raise veal and honestly it was to me was inhumane and anyway I said to this friend of mine geez you know you know about how veal is raised and how it's handled and everything he took a cut out of it put in his mouth said this one's already dead but so tell these guys about that tell these guys about that that time you uh did that custom slaughter for that person gave him a picture of the thing oh so um uh some some years ago we uh i gave some relatives uh half of a beef for a present and uh so i delivered some of the meat already and we were bringing the rest of it, and they were going to have this big meal.

[1538] Well, they had just beautiful steaks and roast.

[1539] I mean, they made several things, wonderful cooks.

[1540] And they invited the neighbors over.

[1541] And here's, they bring their couple of daughters along.

[1542] And on the farm, we had a pen that we always raised.

[1543] This is when we had a lot of cattle around.

[1544] We always, where we always raised the one that was going to be slaughtered.

[1545] Because in those days, we weren't doing the grass -fed thing.

[1546] We were giving them corn and whatnot.

[1547] And the cattle all had the same name.

[1548] was dinner.

[1549] And so I had taken a Polaroid picture of this steer before I had it butchered and wrote on the bottom of it dinner.

[1550] And so in presenting the meat at that dinner that night, and these neighbors were there with a couple of young girls.

[1551] One was maybe 10 and the other one, 12.

[1552] You know, we're about to begin eating and I make the presentation and I hand them a picture of dinner.

[1553] And so the girl, and so they, you know, they didn't think anything about it.

[1554] I just passed it around the table and one girl would need it.

[1555] And last I heard, she was still a vegetarian.

[1556] She just couldn't do that connection or, you know, couldn't believe that that's what you're doing.

[1557] On the other hand, my, I wanted to say something about this whole thing with people eating meat and not, you know, being a part of it and whatnot.

[1558] So I live in Madison, Wisconsin, which is, you know, very liberal town.

[1559] And the east side of Madison is particularly, but there's a food co -op over there that our friend Carl Malcolm did a, learned to hunt program through.

[1560] And it was wildly successful.

[1561] And so in Madison, where I know an awful lot of people, and most of meat meat, very few of them hunt, but none of them.

[1562] I can't think of anyone who has a problem with me doing it.

[1563] In fact, they'll ask about it and whatnot.

[1564] So even the vegetarians and vegans that I know are pretty, you know, they're pretty okay with it.

[1565] My comment is always, I don't have any objection.

[1566] to what you're doing, and I read Pollan's article from the New Yorker they posted the other day, and it was just a wonderful, it was a long read, but about the intelligence of plants.

[1567] The intelligence of plants and how they adapt, and so wait a minute, you know.

[1568] Yeah, there's going to be some starving vegans, man. Just because they don't have a brain doesn't mean they don't have a certain kind of intelligence.

[1569] Not only that, it's been proven that plants actually can make calculations.

[1570] Plants are not as simple as a rock.

[1571] You know, we like to think that in eating a plant you're not eating anything that's alive but you are you have to eat life life consumes life we just have this ability to differentiate between life of an animal that we believe has emotions or we think has feelings and plants they can get roots to grow toward the sound the sound of running water yeah wow they'll steer in that there's a type of intelligence in plants that we don't understand and that's also I feel bad for those sons bitches a friend of mine read that article he goes man I just never thought of how stressful most people when I fire up my lawnmower.

[1572] All those little blades of grass are just freaking out.

[1573] Well, when you take mushrooms, it's one of the things you experience is this weird connection with that fungus.

[1574] And, you know, obviously a fungus is not quite the same as a plant.

[1575] In fact, funguses are actually more closely related to animals than they are to plants.

[1576] But there's some weird thing that's going on while you're eating a mushroom.

[1577] And part of, you know, the psychedelic lore, what people believe is that you're communicating with this plant by eating it.

[1578] They also believe that about ayahuasca, the combinatory plant beverage that everybody goes down to Peru and Brazil to take and have these visionary experiences.

[1579] They believe that you're experiencing some sort of intelligent connection to the spirit world through this vehicle, this plant vehicle.

[1580] Plants aren't as simple as, you know, everybody likes to think that, oh, you eat broccoli, it's so karma -free.

[1581] You know, there might be the only way to eat karma -free is to eat shit.

[1582] all right if you want to go around eating shit that might be karma free well you would you would switch to eating what I would the next step is you would switch to eating like non -terminal productions from plants me like you need apples but but the jane you wouldn't eat you wouldn't eat you wouldn't eat root vegetables like those those sex well they'll eat they will never eat onions or potatoes and things because that's the root the life source that's the life source so what they do is they eat everything that grows above the ground so you are allowed to eat anything that will regenerate.

[1583] So you can eat, leave, leafy.

[1584] I had an aunt who was fucking crazy.

[1585] She's, well, she's not my aunt anymore.

[1586] They got divorced.

[1587] She's fucking crazy.

[1588] And she's a fruitarian.

[1589] Oh, nice.

[1590] She probably has no blood in her body.

[1591] I was going to say, how she looks.

[1592] She's on an IV?

[1593] But she was one of those really fucking annoying people that, like, you couldn't have a ham sandwich around her.

[1594] She would just start talking shit about, do you know how they treat those animals?

[1595] Do you know what you have to murder?

[1596] Oh, fucking Christ.

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] It was just this craziness.

[1599] But the bottom line is what people don't want to take into account.

[1600] What they want to say is, hey, you shouldn't kill an animal and eat it.

[1601] Okay, should we ever kill animals?

[1602] No. Okay, you should never kill animals.

[1603] What are we going to do with all these animals?

[1604] What about the animals that are going to stop them from fucking?

[1605] It's not just that.

[1606] Are we going to control the population?

[1607] What are we going to do about predators?

[1608] Well, you know, let nature control them.

[1609] Do you know how nature controls populations?

[1610] They fucking eat them while they're alive.

[1611] All right?

[1612] Coyotes, there's a video that, have found online.

[1613] It's a crazy video.

[1614] Maybe you could find it.

[1615] But these two deer get locked up.

[1616] They were battling and they were gnashing horns together and they got locked up.

[1617] And while they're locked up, a lot of times they can't get unlocked.

[1618] Because the horns are organic.

[1619] They flex.

[1620] The antlers are organic.

[1621] They flex and move.

[1622] And if you hit it the right way, they can get connected to the point where it's really difficult to get untangled.

[1623] So while these two deer were going at it and they got locked up, coyotes ate one of them alive.

[1624] Wow.

[1625] So one deer is like gutted and its legs are half missing and the other deer is like connected to them fucking freaked out and these hunters came along and disconnected these two that's what you're going to get if you don't get hunters it's not just that that's not bad though it's not bad to people because people aren't involved in that but i'm saying i'm not like i don't go like oh we need to get rid of predators because they're so mean to animals right but i feel like it's a treat to watch it when i watch there's the two deer there's the two deer i don't know if that's the very specific video but there are situations also like in certain indigenous cultures where You can't grow anything.

[1626] Tell Eskimos to be vegetarians.

[1627] You're basically, you have to eat the animals.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] In parts of the Middle East, where you're not growing anything on the topography of the land.

[1630] You have to live off animals.

[1631] You have to live off the milky or camel.

[1632] In the Bantu Belt, in Africa, you have to basically live off.

[1633] It's very hard to grow stuff there.

[1634] You basically have to live off of, you know, game meat.

[1635] You know, try living off of, try growing something in the Congo.

[1636] There it is.

[1637] That's the video, this poor gear.

[1638] connected to this other deer that's been just eaten alive and the hunters found the coyote eating it the hunters found the coyote eating the one deer and this deer's like motherfucker let me go and he can't get go and he can't let go and the other deer is just like half of his body is missing so they had to hold on to him and look where they are farm country it's dog's place yeah it's dog's house coyotes the guy with his hands in his pocket's going hey what's going to dude if i lived in your house man that that whole area you know we've talked about me buying land in your area and I'm still really interested in now because there's something so fucking cool about that area, the driftless area, and there's something so fucking cool about just your house.

[1639] Go out of your house in the morning, go for a walk, pitch up a tent, and fucking hang out, wait for someone to come by.

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] I mean, it's really an amazing spot.

[1642] Well, thanks.

[1643] You know, I feel really lucky to be the one who gets to take care of it.

[1644] Look at that.

[1645] There's a driftless area.

[1646] For this generation.

[1647] Look how beautiful that place.

[1648] That's what it looks like in the summer, sun.

[1649] Seriously?

[1650] Seriously?

[1651] We keep saying, we keep saying, Doug's place, but Doug's...

[1652] Oh, thank you, Steve.

[1653] Doug's, yeah.

[1654] I want to point out, it's definitely Doug's family's place.

[1655] And Doug's, how long?

[1656] It's been in my family 112 years now.

[1657] Wow.

[1658] A hundred and 12 years.

[1659] He had a relative, loses some bitch, so the next generation went back and got us.

[1660] I told you that in confidence.

[1661] No, what happened was during the Depression, my great -grandfather, so when I say it's been in my family 1112 years there was a little there was a couple of months there's a blip a hiccup so we don't qualify to be a century farm or something but uh my great grandfather had a railroad that went from casanovia to uh laval which is seven miles away and the depression came and then there was a flood and wiped out all the bridges and uh then he had this one i can tell my dad would would uh be okay with this so one of his uh uncles i guess always had these hairbrain ideas that he could talk his father into financing him on.

[1662] So he mortgaged our farm.

[1663] So our farm is not, it's been in the family that long, but it's not the original family farm.

[1664] Over where by where we were duck hunting, I pointed that out.

[1665] That's where the homestead was.

[1666] And every guy in his area is Doug's.

[1667] Doug's got cousins he never even met.

[1668] They're like down the road.

[1669] They probably pop out of the woodwork when November rolls around.

[1670] How are you doing, cousin?

[1671] Hey, hey.

[1672] Little hunting.

[1673] We're family.

[1674] You know, I think.

[1675] Folks around Casanova would say, well, some people would say that, you know, I wouldn't that fucking Duren won't anybody in a hundred place.

[1676] There's a dude that ran that Hunter, there's a dude kneeling next to me. Yeah.

[1677] That ran that Hunter recruitment program out of that Whole Foods place or something like that.

[1678] It was a co -op, yeah.

[1679] And Carl's just one of those guys.

[1680] You know, he's just wonderful advocate for the outdoors.

[1681] And, yeah, that was our first time, I guess, the first hunt that we did together because Durkin was there.

[1682] so there was no that was the second time he hunted on my farm yeah been this is the fourth time anyway what was i talking about hunting no your old man your old your great grandpa so yeah railroads so anyway uh it came to a point where well we've got to have you know something's got to give so he gave the farm let the farm go back to northwestern mutual life is what my dad said and uh and my grandfather had interestingly it didn't make sense for him to buy it from his father he bought it from the insurance company who had the paper on it so there was like a few month period of time where it was in no man's land but no one else has owned the place for 112 years that's the long it's an amazing farm man it's an amazing spot it's beautiful beautiful spot well there's been people taking care of it for a long time i give my father an awful lot of credit for you know his um vision on the whole thing and my grandfather was a really interesting guy too and um um You know, they, I didn't know my great -grandfather, obviously, but, but yeah, I mean, it's just, it's just my turn right now.

[1683] And I happen to have four brothers and sisters who are very willing to sort of let me be in charge and we're all partners in the thing.

[1684] And my folks are, you know, still heavily involved.

[1685] But, or as they always say, we control the purse strings like they're, like they're the House of Representatives or something.

[1686] I wish you had, I wish you had a picture of the standard.

[1687] That we could put up on the thing there, man. Hmm.

[1688] Yeah, I don't know where you find one of those.

[1689] The standard?

[1690] Doug killed it, yeah, Doug.

[1691] Yeah, Doug killed one time, killed a giant.

[1692] Well, you have pictures of that on your stuff.

[1693] Yeah, I'm here.

[1694] I don't know where there.

[1695] Doug killed a giant buck that became known.

[1696] As the standard.

[1697] As a standard on a property.

[1698] It's a really funny story.

[1699] I feel like this is like Marionette.

[1700] He's going, tell him, Doug.

[1701] Tell him about this, Doug.

[1702] Tell him about that, dog.

[1703] Why don't you tell him, Steve?

[1704] You, too.

[1705] The standard is a funny story.

[1706] without a picture but a lot of people don't even watch it anyways they're listening yeah well fair enough tell that story about the standard Joe are you curious about hearing a story yeah absolutely what I like about the standard story is um how I went up there with the tractor and set the whole thing out no no no no no the part I like this is never going to work because we're the part I like is when you took it down to the oh yeah yeah okay took it down to the guy so so so here's what happened I like two weeks before uh this early It was an early gun season.

[1707] It was actually during bow season at that time.

[1708] It was very controversial, but it was Earnabuck.

[1709] So this is like the end of October, so the rut is just kicking off.

[1710] And my nephew shot a dough the night before and had never gutted a deer.

[1711] And, in fact, he shot one earlier that day.

[1712] And I said, well, go ahead, Sam, you know, got it out.

[1713] He said, well, I didn't get my, I don't know how to do it.

[1714] And I said, well, if I got that deer, I'm going to tag it so that I could have the buck tag.

[1715] Two weeks before this day, my wife and I were driving down through the farm, on that road that comes down through there, and this just enormous buck gets up out of this brush and goes just lumbering into the woods.

[1716] And my wife, who doesn't get excited about deer is like, oh, my God, look at the size.

[1717] I mean, she got excited.

[1718] So later that day, I went up with the tractor and a brush hog, you know, nothing going on here.

[1719] I'm just driving through, cutting the trails on the farm, and left the tractor, idling, jumped down off of the tractor, grabbed a, I had a tree stand along, strapped it to a tree, got back in the tractor while it was, you know, just, as I said, let it run the whole time.

[1720] and then drove out of there.

[1721] Two weeks later, I had this buck tag and shoot the deer.

[1722] It's one of, unfortunately, it's not one where I can tell a long story about, I can make any story long, apparently, but a long story about hunting this deer and all that.

[1723] It showed up 10 minutes after I got in the stand.

[1724] Boom, shot it.

[1725] And that's the standard.

[1726] And this thing is just enormous.

[1727] I mean, it's just.

[1728] That's the one on your wall?

[1729] Yeah, that real, and it was just a huge deer besides.

[1730] How much did it weigh, do you think?

[1731] I don't know.

[1732] I go 265 or something like that, maybe 270, and I'm standing.

[1733] Well, the thing is like, it's like a, you know, it had to be as big a deer.

[1734] You get into, you get into like how many inches of antler.

[1735] Right.

[1736] So it was 100, it was almost a 200 -inch deer in the antler, but it was an enormous body deer besides.

[1737] So, never shot anything like that before.

[1738] So I call this taxidermist and said, so I want to bring this deer in.

[1739] And he said, well, how big is it?

[1740] And I said, well, I have size 13 shoes and I can put.

[1741] both my shoes between the antlers.

[1742] Oh, well, you didn't want to get that in here real soon, and, you know, so the skin doesn't, the hide doesn't slip and all this stuff.

[1743] So my dad's got this little Chevy F -S -10 pickup.

[1744] We dropped the thing in the back, so it looks like an elk in the back of this little tiny pickup, and we drive it to the taxidermist stuff.

[1745] And by the time we get to the taxi -dermist stuff, there are two or three vehicles behind us because they want to see where it's going.

[1746] We pull into the place, and I walk up, and there's this taxiderm shop where they also register deer.

[1747] You guys have the experience of places where they register deer.

[1748] It's a madhouse.

[1749] and so we pull in there and I walk up to the guy and said oh by the way I'm the guy who called and you know got the buck with it he said oh can I see it and they've got trucks are backed in there and they're unloading deer and skinning them out and doing all this stuff and my little dad's little s tennis sitting down at the bottom of the hill and and he walks down there and he goes all right everybody get all these vehicles out of the way we're backing this one up in here right now so we back it up there and they get it out of the thing And out of the back, and they do a quick skin of it until they get it to the head.

[1750] And so he's got a guy who all he does is surgically removed, you know, do the cape and whatnot.

[1751] We go in there and guys start chucking $5 bills into a, or $10 bills into a hat and start writing numbers down.

[1752] So they're guessing as to how many inches of horn there is.

[1753] So every big deer that comes in, that's what they were doing.

[1754] But it was just the whole scene was.

[1755] How many inches was it?

[1756] It was 192.

[1757] Wow.

[1758] That's a big...

[1759] The one that you got was like...

[1760] Twelve?

[1761] No, more than that.

[1762] 18, 24.

[1763] What is that right there?

[1764] That muleeer.

[1765] How big is that?

[1766] Oh, shit.

[1767] 110?

[1768] That's how big fucking animal you had then.

[1769] But it is a...

[1770] Yeah, it's just like something that happens kind of magically when they get up into that.

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] I need to start, I mean...

[1773] Genetics.

[1774] Genetics food age.

[1775] There's a big one right there.

[1776] That's a meal deer, too.

[1777] That's not even.

[1778] That's a big meal deer.

[1779] That's not big?

[1780] Type in 200 -inch white tail.

[1781] Well, I've seen some of them that have, it looks like they have trees grown out of their heads.

[1782] Yeah, so I've been 200 -inch white and you'll probably hit like 200 -inch white.

[1783] Now, Alberta is the place where I came here and has the big ones.

[1784] They got big body deer, and for a long time, they were the raining.

[1785] There was like, there was a place to go if you wanted to shoot a huge wrecked.

[1786] I mean, just besides body.

[1787] You get the body thing we talked about that Bergman's principle about why animals in the north are big.

[1788] What the fuck.

[1789] That's crazy.

[1790] That doesn't even look weird.

[1791] That's like fake.

[1792] That's big.

[1793] That's insane.

[1794] It's got a tree.

[1795] So it's very elk -like For a while Alberta was a place to go If you wanted to kill it They still got plenty of huge deer But then all this stuff started happening In Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa And they're just killing freaking tankers now For a while like Texas was the man Look at a deer That's ridiculous Food plots, right, soybeans Yeah, so for a while like Alberta was the man And Texas was the man And right now the Midwest is just cranking huge If big, huge antlered white tails are your thing, and you want to shoot one...

[1796] Let me ask you this.

[1797] You want to shoot one in the wild and not, like, shooting one that some guy, you know, reared off his freaking stud animal.

[1798] Well, I watched this one show where it was about a deer farm, and they were showing all these deer that they had genetically raised in these deer farm, and it's ridiculous.

[1799] I mean, they have trees growing out of their head, and they're only two years old.

[1800] Yeah.

[1801] They're a two -year -old deer, and they got fucking these weird, crazy.

[1802] antlers.

[1803] You can't trust white tails.

[1804] If I walk into a dude's house and I walk into a guy's house, he's like, check out that freaking white tail.

[1805] I'm like, you know, I can't even start even kind of pretending to be impressed until I knew the backstory.

[1806] As far as I know you shot it behind a fence, you walk into a guy's place, he's got a big tanker, like Big Horn, he's probably got something.

[1807] If he's got a big tanker mule deer, there's a very good chance he's really got something.

[1808] A big tanker, elk, I'm like, I don't have to know what was going on.

[1809] So elk, you were saying this before, podcast there are elk that are behind fences oh shit yeah tons of man where tons of lots of i mean is you could probably there's probably there's more states that do it that no i shouldn't say there's more that do it than don't but i i'll rattle off a bunch to do texas i know pennsylvania's got a bunch of high fence places missouri's got high fence places idaho has high fence places for elk there's something about an elk in a high fence that kind of offends yeah you give the dude three four thousand bucks i mean they'll drive you out and you pick the one you want out i've seen ads they say like it'd be like um someone needs to hunt this elk now.

[1810] $3 ,000.

[1811] Isn't that?

[1812] It's weird.

[1813] There's something about an elk that's a mystical, sort of a mystical, majestic creature.

[1814] I hate to see them.

[1815] I hate to see them.

[1816] I'd argue the same thing about a white -tail deer.

[1817] I just can't imagine going behind a, you know, going into a fence.

[1818] Like one of those places in Texas?

[1819] Well, I mean, they haven't in Wisconsin, too.

[1820] There's a place called, well, I don't want to start naming places.

[1821] Well, I have a buddy who went to a place in Texas.

[1822] It's 10 ,000 acres.

[1823] Is that okay?

[1824] I mean, at what point you get into a weird, you get into the, you get into a thing where it's become, I mean, there's a big thing.

[1825] You see hunts advertised on a 300 acre chunk of ground and has no fence on it, right?

[1826] I'm sorry, no tree on it.

[1827] Right.

[1828] And you get in these things where someone might be doing this amazing wildlife management, you know, and doing a really good management job.

[1829] And for whatever reason, like, could be any number of issues.

[1830] They, for their own management purposes, fence a gigantic track landing, and you get into, so is that legit or not.

[1831] and it's kind of like who's that guy that said I only know I know porn when I see it I know but there's something about it's like I can't define porn but show me a picture I'll tell you it's porn or not that was the Supreme Court Justice who said I don't know how to define it but I know when I see it so it's it's some of sanity rules but what I'm saying is that what if you're there's something about being out in the middle of nowhere like the Missouri breaks that is that feels more challenging in a way yeah it's a luxury though too because a lot of people don't have you know people like when I was growing up man it was we hunted the farthest we'd hunt from our house we typically hunted between two and eight miles from our house we're going on a big ass trip a big ass trip to drive 40 miles up and hunt this place called peacock in uh in lake county i didn't grow up thing i mean we grew up hunting what we had around us man i you know now i i lose sight of it now because i have you know i have such a like a i kind of fell into such a fantastic occupation where now i'm like oh yeah you know go here and go there for all these wild hunts and like you know the real way to hunt is this and that and Alaska and mountains you're talking about alpine hunting like when you're that's what I like yeah when you're up in the mountains and you're having really literally bring everything with you going up and down a mountain that that feels a lot more challenging yeah you get into a ton of physical challenges not but it is a luxury and most of people I mean more hours are logged deer hunting then you're kind of logged hunting white -tailed deer than and your kind of thing The number one killed thing is what doves are doves, I think.

[1832] Number one killed.

[1833] That's a real issue with people.

[1834] Man, the doves, they go crazy.

[1835] It's the symbol of peace.

[1836] In Michigan, you cannot hunt dubs.

[1837] It's a peaceful bird.

[1838] You cannot hunt dubs in Michigan.

[1839] We used to, we used to, when we were kids, we hunted them on the sly.

[1840] You shouldn't cut olive branches either because them and dives together, equal peace.

[1841] Is it good eating or dubs taste?

[1842] Very good.

[1843] Dark flesh.

[1844] Dark flesh, very flavorful.

[1845] It's a very flavorful.

[1846] Fessons are the best saying.

[1847] Don't even say it.

[1848] Don't say it.

[1849] You're talking about dubs.

[1850] No, no, I don't like pheasant, but I mean.

[1851] What are those?

[1852] Cheers.

[1853] Why doves?

[1854] But pigeons are okay.

[1855] Not doves, apparently.

[1856] Chickens.

[1857] No, pigeons and doves have a lot in common, but a dove is better.

[1858] Morning dove is better.

[1859] Is it what's a, yeah.

[1860] This dark liver color.

[1861] Yeah.

[1862] So, I mean, the exact opposite of Steve, though.

[1863] I mean, I've hunted two other places than our area in my entire life.

[1864] I'm 55 years old.

[1865] I hunted the boundary waters.

[1866] Deer hunted up there four or five years ago, and last spring I went down and hunted turkeys.

[1867] What's the boundary waters?

[1868] Boundary waters, northern Minnesota.

[1869] It's the boundary between Wisconsin and Minnesota.

[1870] It's wild.

[1871] No, isn't it?

[1872] Isn't the boundary waters like, it's Canada and Minnesota?

[1873] I'm sorry, Canada and Minnesota, yeah.

[1874] I don't even need to look that up on the Internet.

[1875] Well, yeah.

[1876] So, but so most of my hunting, you know, and I've been doing it since I was 12, so it's a lot of years has been done on that farmer or in that area and really not, you know, elsewhere.

[1877] I guess I hunted a little bit when I was in, when I lived in New Hampshire for a few years too.

[1878] But, you know, so sort of the opposite experience of Steve.

[1879] But nonetheless, challenging, yeah, I don't disagree with you at all.

[1880] White -tailed deer hunting is really accessible.

[1881] It's becoming, because of guys like me, I suppose, a little less accessible because I don't necessarily just, when I was a kid, you could pretty much go hunting anywhere.

[1882] I mean, we'd just get in the car on a Saturday morning and just go into that woods.

[1883] And, you know, not deer hunting, but when I was a kid deer hunting, you had to put four guys together in like August or September, fill out a form, send it into the DNR to get a tag to shoot a dough.

[1884] So that's, and the whole idea, so one dough for four guys.

[1885] everybody else had a buck take so and that was the idea was that there was the to bring the population up well now it's exactly the opposite where we're encouraging i mean they have the earner buck rules that kind of got shot down um but earn a buck is you know is in place but you know steve asked me the other day well how many deer could you shoot on your tag and i was like there's no limit that i i was trying to calculate the cost of hunting deer in wisconsin it's like what you buy a tag for 18 bucks it's good for in your area yeah in our area um You get a buck tag, a dough tag, a second dough tag, and then every time you go in, they'll give you another paper tag.

[1886] That's an interest.

[1887] And that's all off the permit that cost what?

[1888] It was $24.

[1889] $24, yeah.

[1890] That's a good way to get meat for cheap.

[1891] Yeah, man. It's like if you're hunting local in that area, it's economical.

[1892] And when I was, yeah, yeah.

[1893] And when I was a kid, if a deer got hit on the road, people stopped and picked it up and put it in the back.

[1894] We ain't roadkill deer, man. Absolutely, but now it's like, now, because the snow, we've had a big melt recently.

[1895] You see the big drifts or the snow piles along the edge of the road, and here's deer carcasses turning up.

[1896] People aren't big them up.

[1897] And you can't, you can't eat them.

[1898] You can't pick them off.

[1899] Well, it's too late now.

[1900] It depends on the state's legality, but, you know, like, now in Montana, you can, you can, now it was illegal.

[1901] Now you can pick up certain species.

[1902] You can, you can salvage them, you got to let the state know.

[1903] We used to just have to call 911, and they'd give you a permit for a deer.

[1904] We were coming back one time.

[1905] My old man hit a deer with his bow, okay?

[1906] We all go out to Blood Trail of Deer.

[1907] Blood Trail of the deer, till one, two, in the morning, never found a deer.

[1908] Never recovered a deer.

[1909] I can't remember where he hit.

[1910] He didn't probably hit in the paunch or something.

[1911] Never found it.

[1912] Coming back, he's got me and my brothers.

[1913] Now I'm little, little.

[1914] Like, I was so little that me and my other brother, we got left behind, and he left us to sleep in the woods, and our landing ran out of gas.

[1915] So our light was out, and we fell asleep, and so he couldn't find us.

[1916] And they're running around going, Dave, Dad, because, You'd have to get close enough to yell and wake us up.

[1917] So two in the morning we're coming home, finally.

[1918] Driving a Jeep AMC Eagle or Jeep AMC Cherokee.

[1919] And bam, hit this deer.

[1920] So it's, you know, everyone's tired.

[1921] I'm sleeping up front.

[1922] My brother's in the back seat.

[1923] My old man gets out, grabs this deer and throws the son bitch in the back of a Jeep Cherokee on a tart.

[1924] Sticks an arrow in it.

[1925] No. Start on down the road.

[1926] And all of a sudden, my brother was in the back are flipping out, like freaking.

[1927] And we turn around that some bitch is standing up.

[1928] up in the back of that truck.

[1929] No. Oh, no. Slams on the brakes, gets out, and haulsed deer out of the back, cuts its throat, weights come and throws it back in her on the tarp and continue on our way home.

[1930] That was a hard man. Oh, my God.

[1931] Talk about the cell for life.

[1932] You guys sleep in the woods.

[1933] I'll be back.

[1934] What are you six?

[1935] You fucking pussy.

[1936] Here's a lantern with three ounces of fluid in it.

[1937] Right.

[1938] Go to sleep.

[1939] I'll be back.

[1940] I gave the kid a compass.

[1941] Whatever.

[1942] No, he was, he was a, um, he was a hard guy man yeah i guess he's a hard guy yeah i guess that sounds like a hard guy at the time like it up until you know it's funny because like there's this uh there's like this music i don't even want to name her name but she's got the song like i'm not angry anymore like my dad's been dead like my dad died in 2002 2003 i'm just now i just turned 40 a couple like a week or two ago I'm just now getting where I'm not So angry at him And I'm starting to go like A lot of what he didn't make sense And a lot of it has to do with I have a three year old now Oh yeah And now I'm like you know what maybe he wasn't like so You know it just I look like like I look at it through that angle now having a little kid And I see like you want That person to be just like able to fend for themselves And to be capable and know how to fix stuff And know how to take situations in their own hands And know not to complain about stuff you know what I mean well you came out pretty good I mean yeah but most people disregard everything they learn from their parents even if they turned out really good like you could have a whole slew of siblings all be turned out great and then every one of them will be like do the opposite of what their parents did what do you think you were so angry about I mean what was the main thing just him being a hard ass making us work all the time all the time see these pads he used to have a longer one and he'd start making chores and he wouldn't like he would just keep going until he had two columns down to the bottom.

[1943] My dad would do that, but he'd get on your first day of summer break, and he'd be like, you know, and you're like, well, shit, that's going to take me through August.

[1944] My father would do that stuff, but he didn't have any staying power.

[1945] Like, he would write up list.

[1946] I crashed my car, and this car, and it costs him, like, I don't know how much it's going to cost him.

[1947] He goes, you're working for this.

[1948] You're working for this, boy, I'll tell you that much right now.

[1949] Hope you, hope you think, I know you had plans for the summer because you can kiss those plans, goodbye, because you're going to be working on.

[1950] He was so mad at me. Meanwhile, I, I knew.

[1951] he wrote this long list.

[1952] I knew he just kind of forgot about it.

[1953] He just never had any staying by it.

[1954] He'd get busy.

[1955] I'd be like, see you later.

[1956] I dropped this list.

[1957] I wasn't I supposed to mow the long star?

[1958] I got to trick me. Oh, man. No, you're probably like, no, dad, I'm going to grow up and be a comedian.

[1959] Dude, my mother, my mother used to change my grades.

[1960] I would get my report card, and it sucked.

[1961] And I knew my father, my father, I knew he was...

[1962] Oh, change it for your father?

[1963] Oh, my God.

[1964] I couldn't go to my dad with...

[1965] the D in math and I was just, I mean, you know, you don't think I'll listen now.

[1966] Can you imagine me in fucking high school?

[1967] Holy shit was I a mess.

[1968] What did your parents think when you said you wanted to be a comedian?

[1969] My father grew up really poor, so when I told him I wanted to be an actor, not even a comedian, an actor.

[1970] Is that what you told him first?

[1971] Yep.

[1972] I was 21, 22.

[1973] I remember he looked at me and his face, I remember his face, the worry and the regret and the dread, but you know what he said?

[1974] Like I should have never even.

[1975] I should have drowned him when he was little.

[1976] Dude, he was so, he was so, I can see, right, he was so depressed because he, he just wanted me to be, you know, he just wanted me to be, he loved me, he just wanted to be safe.

[1977] So he just looked at me and he goes like this, he goes, well, are you asking me if I'll support you?

[1978] I mean, you want some money for your rent.

[1979] I go, I go, no, he goes, well, you're going to need it because you're not paying your way around with acting.

[1980] so you're good we have to talk brass tax you you can't live in new york without my help and and i never forgot that about him he he kind of he just you know he said oh well he's a dreamer here goes nothing but when i got my first job when i got mad tv and i called him it was the greatest thing in the world he goes what are you doing in l .a and i go uh i'm on a tv show and he goes what do you mean and i go i'm going to be on a tv show every week and he gets commercial no it's not a commercial i'm going to be on a tv show he goes i can turn the channel on and you'll be on the show i go that's right and he goes like this there was a pause and he goes oh my god i got to call your mother and he hung up and then my mother called then my cousins called everybody called and he just he didn't know how to even deal with the emotion of it because i was ultimately at first time you know but but forget all that bullshit what what ended up bringing us really close because we didn't really get along that well was how how well i kept my head up during the fact that i wasn't working i spent a lot of time and, you know, for years not working as an actor.

[1981] Oh, he admired that you didn't say quit.

[1982] I never quit, man, and I never got down.

[1983] I never got down.

[1984] I would just go, well, here goes another one.

[1985] I just never fucking gave up.

[1986] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1987] You didn't spend that much time not working because when I met you, when I met you, you were like 26.

[1988] Yeah.

[1989] And you were working.

[1990] Yeah, but I went a long time without.

[1991] The fuck does that mean?

[1992] From college to not working.

[1993] What is that?

[1994] Yeah, but you could be working a little bit probably.

[1995] That just means you're making a tonne.

[1996] I'm talking about being an actor, like all the years of not getting jobs.

[1997] Wait a minute.

[1998] How long is that if you're 26?

[1999] well from the age of when you get out of college how old were you 21 so you five years no i worked at a bank for two years so five years five years from school no i'm talking yeah but it's not like it's probably not like an on -off switch i started selling magazine articles i started selling magazine articles i started selling magazine articles 2000 but it was it took me five years to get it i could be like yes i'm a publishing writer yeah but i couldn't be like i'm a writer right but he was on i'm talking about after mad oh yeah and at that point you're like that's because you insisted on doing gay comedy Whatever, dude.

[2000] No, I was insisting on doing acting.

[2001] Joe would be like, dude, stop with the acting.

[2002] I'd be an acting class.

[2003] We'd get in these huge arguments.

[2004] He'd be like, just do stand -up.

[2005] Just do stand -up with this acting stuff.

[2006] I would freak out on pilot season.

[2007] I'd call him up.

[2008] I didn't get a job as pilot season.

[2009] Why wouldn't you want to be autonomous when you could be?

[2010] I just didn't understand it.

[2011] Oh, that's the greatest.

[2012] Like, when I was on news radio, the producer actually said to me, he goes, why are you still doing stand -up?

[2013] You're an actor now.

[2014] I was like, oh, really?

[2015] I get the fuck away from you right now before this is, contagious you're kidding really that's a perspective I didn't know to be a stand -up for stand -up the most beautiful thing about stand -up is you got everything with you you're you carry your equipment you are who you are you go to a club and you don't need anything to turn on that microphone and we'll do this turn the lights off turn on the microphone we're good the last thing you want as a stand -up is to have to check in with a bunch of other people if you had to do what you have to do as a stand -up what you have to do as an actor like go to producers and a writer and the network and get everything approved it's a fucking disaster which is one of the reasons why it's so hard to get a good show on television that perfect storm of good writing and good acting and all that stuff coming together it's incredibly difficult to pull off practically impossible and let's be honest we have the greatest job in the world am I right?

[2016] Well it's also the most fun to me when I'm a con when I'm an audience member I would way rather go see Brian Calland do stand up than or go see you in a movie and you go see you in a movie and you can see Brian Callant do stand up in San Francisco this weekend Thursday Friday at the punchline Yes go see you're very funny doing stand -up But in a movie the odds of you getting a role That represents you the same way it does your stand -up It's not only that like When you go to see a good comic The laughs that you have in an hour and a half Like you get out of there your fucking stomach hurts You know you're howling laughing Yeah but when we went to see you I told you my wife said my eyes and my face hurts from holding that like from holding that like big smiley thing for you know whatever if you see someone like joe rogan or you see um bill burr you see these guys let me tell you something take the funniest movie in the world the hangover any movie i don't care what it is there is no way that that audience is going to laugh as much at the hangover as they're going to laugh at joe this is not going to happen you know and there's a real problem with the way it's expressed on television too and i'm having an issue with that now um my new special by the way It comes out this Friday night on, this Friday night on Comedy Central.

[2017] They're airing my latest, my last special, yeah.

[2018] Live from the Tabernacle, the special that I did, I guess it was about a year and a half ago.

[2019] And I'm doing a new one.

[2020] I'm going to film a new one in June.

[2021] Because this special, if you see this special, none of this is on my new comedy that I'm doing now.

[2022] So over the last year and a half, I've been putting together my new hour.

[2023] It's done now.

[2024] And I'm probably going to film that most likely in Denver, most likely.

[2025] in June.

[2026] I'm piecing it together.

[2027] I want to do it at the comedy works, because I love that club.

[2028] If I can do it there, I'll do it there.

[2029] If not, I'll do it at a club.

[2030] I'm trying to figure out how to represent...

[2031] Like, when you see a comedy show on television, I'm sorry, it's just not as good as seeing it live.

[2032] There's something you miss. There's something about the person saying that shit right in front of you that's just way better than someone's saying that shit on a video.

[2033] It's like watching a concert video.

[2034] It's like watching a concert video.

[2035] painful than watching the concert video that's true that's the shared experience when I saw you recently in Chicago one of the neat things that's you know sitting there with a friend but but the people around you like what struck somebody else as just like gut -wrenching you know busting funny and I'm yeah that's funny but then the thing that would get me would be other people are kind of chuckling and I'm just roaring you know and it's like that shared experience I think is a part of it I think it is too there's something about going and I think the shared experience somewhat gets diminished when there's, like, more than 3 ,000 people.

[2036] Yeah.

[2037] Like, I've had great times, like, when we did Toronto.

[2038] What we do?

[2039] Would you do Denver with me when you came out as me?

[2040] Yes.

[2041] That was the great.

[2042] I had him introduce me, and then Brian Callan goes out there.

[2043] And they're all looking at me, and they're all looking at me. It was like pretty cool to get that reception.

[2044] Literally, I felt like the Messiah.

[2045] And then I could see the front row going, Joe looks, he looks thinner.

[2046] I wonder what's going on.

[2047] He's got eight.

[2048] He looks so thin and He's weak.

[2049] Gained three inches and lost 50 pounds.

[2050] That's it.

[2051] It's like Joe Rogan Light.

[2052] There it is.

[2053] This is actually the video.

[2054] And then just come walking out.

[2055] Just come walking out.

[2056] How high were we that we thought this was a good idea?

[2057] But doing Toronto was amazing.

[2058] Yeah.

[2059] 3 ,000 people.

[2060] Well, this was Denver, right?

[2061] Wasn't it Denver?

[2062] This is several thousand people.

[2063] But you hear, though, like, what?

[2064] What's up you fucking freaks?

[2065] That's what Joe says.

[2066] What's up you fucking freaks?

[2067] Joe.

[2068] Yeah, what the fuck, dude?

[2069] What the fuck, dude?

[2070] I just thought, I just thought, this is like the happy thing you got in the way.

[2071] You know, one of the best things about seeing, like, you talk about that experience being in the audience when I saw you, recently in New York it was like you brought up the you kind of launched into the duck dynasty thing oh yeah yeah right it's some dudes in the audience i can see a lot of guys in the audience they start getting real excited because they're like awesome because now he's going to start bashing the queer is like now we can't talk really bad about gay people and they're getting all charged up they're like come on let's talk bad about queers i can't wait it and then joe like so like turns it on its head in its most vicious way and like the palpability of these dudes disappointment that it wasn't going to be we were talking about how much we hate gay people and they're kind of like yeah yeah bring it bring it i hate them gay people and then uh and jonas like just shot them down the worst way and they're kind of getting this little like you know this pissy little mood and this whole thing's playing out right in front me like no one would ever know i'm just sitting here watching these guys get like oh man i thought it was gonna be more fun than this well big a change the minds that man big a song gets crushed well what it is is that you know they think that you're gonna like support his freedom of speech you know because that's like the big argument that you see on Facebook what about freedom of speech what about his his Christian beliefs what about supporting his Christian beliefs you know my point on all that has always been why would you care what gay people are doing right like what's going on that you care about gay people and if it's the Bible you're really fucking cherry picking if you're going after gay you're cherry picking you should go after people that wear two different types of cloth because that shit's in there too yeah but the whole premise of the show is like that they made a boatload of money but isn't their line the Bible, like a rich man has as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle?

[2072] Yes, that's what Jesus said.

[2073] Yes, that's exactly what I'd be more worried about whether reality TV stars get to go to heaven.

[2074] Well, you're a liar if you're doing that show and you're not telling people that it's scripted, you're a liar.

[2075] So that is an issue and that's a real issue with those reality shows.

[2076] They are not reality.

[2077] Those shows are fucking scripted.

[2078] Almost all of it.

[2079] You have to sign a non -disclosure if you work for Duck Dynasty.

[2080] If you work for a lot of those shows, if you're a If you're a sound guy, you have to sign a non -disclosure so that you can't go out and tell everybody that's all bullshit.

[2081] Yep.

[2082] Yeah, that's like one of the most basic things I get is it's like how it comes when you look at what's going on in the world, the bad things that are happening in the world, starvation, abuse of children, all these things go on the world and you hone in on, like, what's going on in some guy's private life.

[2083] That's a really good point, by the way.

[2084] all the problems that really are affecting people and you go out.

[2085] You know what the problem of this world really is?

[2086] You go out to two dudes having brunch with disposable income on a Sunday.

[2087] Who gives a fuck?

[2088] It's very weird.

[2089] We're very weird about that.

[2090] We're very weird about what we decide to get upset about what we don't decide to get upset about.

[2091] It's a strange thing.

[2092] And what we should be upset about, we're not.

[2093] And on a show like that, well, you should be upset about is the fact that they're fucking faking it.

[2094] That's not a drama.

[2095] It's not like watching, you know, fill in the blank, fucking Game of Thrones, where you know it's scripted.

[2096] This is a show where they're pretending this is their real life, and it's not.

[2097] One of the things that I really appreciate about your show is that it's 100 % legit.

[2098] Above board all the way.

[2099] If you don't get an animal, you show the whole fucking show, and you've had several shows where you don't get an animal.

[2100] And one of them that I really respected, man, was that episode this year where you had that bear in your site and you just decided not to shoot it.

[2101] and you had this is a very unique episode because you're fucking bear hunting and you're a hunter and you've killed god knows how many animals in your life and you had your crosshairs on this bear and it was a done deal and he said i'm not feeling it i don't want to shoot this animal for hurting it yeah like yeah I feel I don't know man bears I love to hunt bears and I like to look at bears and sometimes I confuse which of those I like it's confusing me which I like more you know why is that I feel kind of an I feel like an affinity to bears in a way I just kind of as that some of some of their favorite foods are so favorites of mine too like I'll watch bears go eat blueberries it's like I love eating blueberries and at that place I got in Alaska the bears I'll eat blue mussels and blue muscles are like one of my freaking favorite things in the world and so it's like you look at a bear it's like man we're kind of I always feel like we like the exact same foods you know and another thing about bears is I feel that bears kind of wake up a little different every day you know that they're they're experiment you know they're processing things and experimenting with things.

[2102] And so it's a potent animal for me. And I think that if you look at just the history of hunting and the history of hunters as represented through art that they leave behind, an oral tradition they leave behind, it's not a new concept that a hunter would develop an affinity to certain animals.

[2103] Oftentimes people respected the animals that they hunted the most.

[2104] You look at the relationship in plains tribes to bison It's become like an object of worship A very sacred object You have a very conflicted, complicated relationship With the animal And you hunt it and kill it So I'm not I don't even need to feel funny about The way I feel towards some of the animals I hunt Because it's like it's just something That has obviously happened to hunters For a long, long time And as a hunter You kind of develop your own system Like we never use the word taboo When we're talking about ourselves We always use taboo when we're looking at other cultures, be like, oh, those crazy people, they won't eat that because they have a taboo.

[2105] Meanwhile, like, we don't eat dogs, you know.

[2106] We have a taboo system.

[2107] We have a taboo system that governs the things we do.

[2108] And I, through hunting and through observations of animals, and I've developed a set of things that I will and will not do.

[2109] And there's animals that, to me, are really special, you know.

[2110] Not that I dislike other ones, but just the bear to me is special.

[2111] I'll go bear hunting this June.

[2112] And I'm thinking about it.

[2113] It's just something that, you know, I look at a bear and I respect it as a renewable resource, something that if managed properly, I can kill the bear, have its hide, render its fat down to make my own lard with it, eat all the meat.

[2114] I like that, but I also, something about me really likes the individual bear, too, and just to observe them, and now and then just to let one walk.

[2115] You said something really interesting to me just now about the, fact that they wake up differently every day.

[2116] And that's something interesting because what you're saying is that they kind of learn as they get older.

[2117] And you feel like you're interrupting that process, whereas a deer, you don't feel that way.

[2118] I don't.

[2119] You have a deer, well, it's two or it's one or it's five.

[2120] I mean, they learn, but it's not the same thing.

[2121] I have a hard time thinking of white tail deer.

[2122] Most things, I have a hard time thinking of them as individuals.

[2123] Yeah, me too.

[2124] But a bear, like really, especially after I killed that bear, I was talking about those 17.

[2125] And I got that back.

[2126] They did the tooth, I think it's called, is it dentum that they do?

[2127] Yeah.

[2128] They cut a cross -section on that tooth.

[2129] And they got back, I thought, 17, man. Because at the time, I was in my early 20s, man. I was in my early 20s.

[2130] I was in my early 20s.

[2131] I'm like, that's some bitch been around for 17 years.

[2132] That's legit.

[2133] What it did it taste like?

[2134] What that 17 -year -old bear tastes like?

[2135] I kept some roast off the back legs and I kept the loins.

[2136] The thing was fine, man. But like I said, I ground a lot of it.

[2137] But I did keep some roast off it.

[2138] We ate it.

[2139] We sloppy jawed it.

[2140] We did everything.

[2141] And then the loins, we just grilled.

[2142] And how was it?

[2143] The grilled loins were good?

[2144] It was still a good bear.

[2145] And you have to make it medium, right?

[2146] With a bear?

[2147] Because, plus with that bear, I knew he just had trichnosis.

[2148] So it was good.

[2149] You know, I can't, like, it was so long ago now.

[2150] I mean, I remember it being good.

[2151] Everybody being really surprised about I was good, but I'll handle bear meat in different ways.

[2152] You know, I don't just, like, cut a chunk of bear meat and throw it on the grill.

[2153] Like, I do a lot of, you know, you might want to tenderize it, or I'll do marinades on it.

[2154] I'll smoke it.

[2155] Like, I bring it.

[2156] more effort to bear meat than I would to like that that fine taste in Driffless area of Wisconsin White Tail we were eating which was basically warmed up you know I mean you're just like putting a little bit of heat but you do that with with with everything I got a lot of emails and comments from people about the duck and how good was the duck really I was like it was incredible what do you mean yeah people are just like well you know ducks I was like are you talking about mallards and wood ducks I mean because you know you're talking about diving ducks Because that's a whole other thing.

[2157] But, you know, mallards are, it's pretty hard to screw a mallard up, I think.

[2158] Joe's showing some footage of rendering.

[2159] Yeah, that's the, that's the, that's rendering bare fat down in the oil.

[2160] And that's a bear that had been eating blueberries, right?

[2161] And those are fall bears?

[2162] Fall.

[2163] They're fattening up.

[2164] There's nothing better.

[2165] I mean, there really is nothing better than those bears that, you know, you would get them in late September, October, and they're up there eating blueberries.

[2166] They've been eating blueberries for months.

[2167] Oh, my God, they're good.

[2168] I mean, they're just good.

[2169] We've got to make that happen.

[2170] Listen, Brian Callan, we've got to go on more hunting trips I know, I'm not shooting a bear, but I'll go on hunting.

[2171] When we go, when we go.

[2172] You won't shoot a bear?

[2173] No, I won't shoot a bear, but I'll definitely shoot a deer or an elk or anything I'm in any way.

[2174] I just like bears too much.

[2175] You'll see them in this fall for sure.

[2176] When we go moose hunting?

[2177] I want to come.

[2178] Can you come?

[2179] Is it enough room?

[2180] No. We figured out.

[2181] Oh, that sounds like there isn't the rule.

[2182] That's always like, we'll figure it out.

[2183] It's we'll see.

[2184] No, it's a boat.

[2185] No, I'd say it.

[2186] If you, if you are honestly, like, dude, I want to go so bad.

[2187] I really think that the public needs to know how fucking good your show is.

[2188] And I think that I think we're doing our best to expose it on this show and to expose it online and let people know.

[2189] And I know that your ratings are growing.

[2190] But I can't help feel like you're underutilized on – I love the Sportsman Channel.

[2191] I watch it.

[2192] Don't get me wrong.

[2193] Hey, the Sportsman Channel gives us the ability to make the show.

[2194] Yeah, absolutely.

[2195] Because a lot – you can't just go and do the stuff we do and show the stuff we show.

[2196] on a regular network.

[2197] You can't.

[2198] They wouldn't let you.

[2199] No, because they have it in their head.

[2200] You can't gut animals and all that.

[2201] They have in their head.

[2202] There's a set of things that the American public will tolerate.

[2203] There's a set of things that they won't tolerate.

[2204] And we have the ability to do, we have absolute creative freedom to show the things that I'm interested in talking about.

[2205] But do you feel that that's changing.

[2206] Like when you watch these shows, like these Alaska, the last frontier.

[2207] Yeah, I think it's changing.

[2208] Those shows are showing a lot of hunting and a lot of gutting animals, a lot of sense.

[2209] skinning animals.

[2210] They're showing animals hanging up in barns and shit.

[2211] I mean, they're showing the raw real deal, and they're doing it under the, there's something that they feel like is more romanticized about subsistence living.

[2212] Well, yeah, but there's a fabricated thing there where they're always trying to make up this idea that this person's going to die if he doesn't do this, which is just horseshit.

[2213] Well, the most fabricated thing was when they were fucking fly fishing and they're like, oh shit, a bear's coming.

[2214] Then you see the bear eating a fish and the fish is fucking filleted.

[2215] Like, they baited that bear.

[2216] The fuck yeah, they did.

[2217] You get a lot of trouble for that man that bit that fish was totally filleted clean filets missing from the sides like absolutely cut the bear's eating it i'm like you didn't fucking do that the bear did not do that that was a knife goddamn fillet knife a straight clean line from the gills back so yeah we don't need to we don't need to then make we don't need to it can be the drama yeah that you're living a lifestyle out of choice and not just some guy acting like we got a whole damn film crew out here we're flying back and forth with batteries and broken cameras and lenses every damn day and we're going to pretend like this guy out here is going to perish.

[2218] You don't need to come up with like cockamamie justifications.

[2219] I live a lifestyle that I want to live and I have very concrete, resolute reasons why I live that way.

[2220] What they're missing is the entertainment value because a lot of those people are fucking boring.

[2221] That's where Callan and I come in.

[2222] So comedians and hunting.

[2223] You got your entertainment and hunting.

[2224] Your fucking shell, man. I'm telling you, it should be an hour long because there was so much great shit extended footage that you guys have released.

[2225] Just this shit about Brian singing while we're pigeon hunting and trying to get the I was 22 minutes man 22 minutes the shit on the stick thing I was laughing I was crying I was so I don't remember even saying that stuff but when you were you when you laugh at me that's what I start laughing at like your laughter is so ridiculous we're sitting there literally having a conversation and then I ended it with I have a lot of shit story well that's the video that shit on the stick yeah the 100 mile an hour shit yeah that's by the way that shit on the stick video, it's got over 100 ,000 views already.

[2226] It does.

[2227] It's like 150.

[2228] Yeah, it's our best.

[2229] It's our best.

[2230] It's meat eaters' best video.

[2231] There you go.

[2232] I was doing, I was doing, that's what happened.

[2233] I was doing stand -up in New York and somebody goes, tell the shit story.

[2234] Tell us his shit story.

[2235] And I didn't know what he was talking about.

[2236] I thought he was talking about the one where I was hiking.

[2237] Remember that story I told about hiking?

[2238] I had the shit with that girl.

[2239] And, and I thought that's what he's saying.

[2240] I go, I don't have time.

[2241] I'm doing my act.

[2242] But he was talking about fucking that.

[2243] That's crazy.

[2244] What did you say to have a look at, like, about what the shit was?

[2245] Well, of course, you know, I'm trying to interject some education to the thing, like we had talked about.

[2246] Yeah, no kidding.

[2247] So it was black knot, K -N -O -T, which is a...

[2248] But I call my shit at black knot.

[2249] I call my...

[2250] I call my ass like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[2251] And I call my asshole a balloon knot.

[2252] Anyway, it afflicts black cherry, which is what that plant was.

[2253] And there it goes again.

[2254] Black chariot.

[2255] I like black chariots.

[2256] It's three days old.

[2257] It's got 140 ,000 hits so far.

[2258] I can play it, it's fun.

[2259] Yeah.

[2260] That was so fun, too.

[2261] And that was a day when we didn't see a single deer.

[2262] We went up there in the afternoon.

[2263] It's a guy next to your arm.

[2264] Is that shit?

[2265] Yep.

[2266] The only guy like me decided I'm going to shit on that stick.

[2267] I've never actually seen shit on a stick before.

[2268] Expression.

[2269] Up until now, I thought it was a myth.

[2270] It also might be something called black.

[2271] Let's not if we could get Brian to break the branch off and crush it up and put in his mouth.

[2272] Well, no, he just needs to smell it.

[2273] I'll do it for attention.

[2274] Well, you can see there, let's let people see the rest of the video online, but we were fucking howling laughing.

[2275] That was so funny.

[2276] Well, we were howl, there was many of those instances.

[2277] The talking monkey thing?

[2278] Although, how about the, we're all sitting around and was it your brother's son that was there, a 17 -year -old kid?

[2279] And we started telling fuck stories?

[2280] Oh, my God.

[2281] This kid's eyes went up like, you know.

[2282] plates.

[2283] Yeah, but Joe was just saying, Joe was pulling no punches.

[2284] Joe says that the dad's got, the kid's dad, the kid's dad kind of looked a little bit like, oh.

[2285] It was my brother, David, by the way.

[2286] And Joe's like, he's got the internet, man. There's no way we're going to tell him something.

[2287] He doesn't know.

[2288] Joe was pulling no punches.

[2289] Even I was, I was like, oh, geez, I was going to down a little bit.

[2290] You didn't pull any punches either, pal.

[2291] You went with me on it.

[2292] I guess you're right.

[2293] The kid was great.

[2294] That's peer pressure, though.

[2295] I didn't.

[2296] He wound up getting a box.

[2297] That's right.

[2298] he ended up killing a really nice buck from the stand that you guys were sitting in right by that white oak tree that I said one was going to walk by.

[2299] I believe he's, yeah, he's a good kid too, fun kid.

[2300] Stut too, he looks like an athlete that kid.

[2301] Yeah, good kid, Jack's a good kid.

[2302] That whole area is so, you're so lucky, man. It's such a beautiful area to go hunting in.

[2303] And the fact that you're there, you know, for how long is hunting season from archery to, to, to, to, to, to, right.

[2304] Archery starts September 15th, and then in our area, there's some, there's a little bit of time in December where you can't hunt, but it's pretty much until the weekend after New Year's Day.

[2305] That's crazy.

[2306] And then two years ago, when we did the first episode, I think they've stopped this now, but you get landowner tags because, again, we're trying to reduce the herd.

[2307] And so when Steve called me about that, he said, what do you think we do that rabbit hunting thing?

[2308] And maybe we can do a little trapping or something.

[2309] And I was like, well, I can go one better.

[2310] We can still deer hunt at the end of February.

[2311] So actually, you've been to my place, to my family.

[2312] farm twice in the last four or five years at this time of the year when we went hunting.

[2313] You can go hunting at the end of February with a landowner tag.

[2314] Yeah.

[2315] How does that work?

[2316] Well, it's private land hunt, so you're not dipping into, you know, they're not trying to diminish the managers.

[2317] Harvest might happen on public lamb.

[2318] Right.

[2319] And especially in our area where they're trying to reduce the deer herd.

[2320] Because of the CWD thing largely.

[2321] Because it spreads faster the more deer there are.

[2322] Right.

[2323] So, you know, that's a part of it.

[2324] And I believe that we have, you know, that we have too many deer in our area, you know, in terms of a balanced ecosystem.

[2325] So, yeah, so I think that I had to buy the landowner tag, which was like $2.

[2326] And I remember Doty, like, oh, he's going to step up.

[2327] And there were the guys from Vortex and Pat was, I mean, and Carl, and we had seven or eight or nine guys, and Doty steps up, he's going to buy the licenses.

[2328] It was like $18 for all of us.

[2329] he's like he's got the car down we just puts a 20 on the bar we hunted on that trip for two bucks yeah that's right that's exactly what it was yeah that's incredible man yeah you didn't need to have a regular hunting license then it was the landowner permit and then these guys can have tags since since you've been hunting since you were a kid and both you guys have been what what's your approach to dealing with people like the people that are going crazy on my instagram people that don't think that there's that it's a a good thing to do to go hunting.

[2330] They think there's something evil about it.

[2331] They think there's something wrong with it.

[2332] How do you deal with that disconnect?

[2333] I don't run into it very much.

[2334] I mean, I do a little bit in Madison, but as they said, most of the people that I know that don't hunt don't have a problem with me doing it.

[2335] Because of where you live.

[2336] It's a culture thing, right?

[2337] Yeah, but it's also, I mean, Madison, Wisconsin is a pretty, you know, liberal town and folks from all over the world there and there's a certain fascination with that actually the I've gotten a little more hot water talking about feral cats yeah that's something I'm even careful about bringing up that subject people get real hokey about feral cats and I mean on the farm there were always extra cats around and when you got to a point on the farm where yeah I used to do some contract work I used to do some contract work and that feel In that field of business.

[2338] We talked about that on the first podcast you ever came on.

[2339] And so that's way more a sensitive subject than, you know, hunting wild animals.

[2340] Well, right.

[2341] And people have a different connection to them.

[2342] And so Friends of Farrells is this big group in Wisconsin.

[2343] And I know some really.

[2344] Friends of Farrells.

[2345] Friends of Farrells.

[2346] Yeah, they're spading and neutering them and putting them back out.

[2347] Putting them back out?

[2348] Put them back out.

[2349] Just like, go eat some more songbirds.

[2350] Well, yeah.

[2351] I mean, it's sort of that.

[2352] They do that, don't they?

[2353] They also kill rodents.

[2354] this one friend of mine this man guys that run farms I mean you gotta have cats I mean a bunch of cats like Kiefer's got man he's got every once in a while he'll say hey by the way when we're up walking there's a cat up there I need a few less Yeah it's yeah but I mean for just for rodent contamination But yeah and a friend of mine who's I don't know if she belongs to Friends of Farrells but was one of the people who sort of chastised me about talking about the gunny sack and Iraq which is how you get rid of cats, extra cats.

[2355] A gunnysack and a rock.

[2356] You mean, throw him in the water?

[2357] And just ground him.

[2358] My old man's grandpa honestly made him disposed of a litter of his own puppies that way one time.

[2359] Whoa.

[2360] Anyway, I made a comment about it somewhere.

[2361] And actually I said something about, I didn't even go into that.

[2362] I just went into songbirds and all that sort of stuff.

[2363] And she said, look, you know, on my, she's got horses and stuff.

[2364] And she said, on my place, all I have is feral cats.

[2365] And they've all been spayed or neutered.

[2366] and then I put them out there.

[2367] And yeah, I get the whole thing about sawingbirds.

[2368] But in my area or in my place, I'm taking care of it.

[2369] You know, they're not bothering songbirds.

[2370] They're not doing this.

[2371] And I'm like, yeah, but that's not what's happening everywhere else.

[2372] So, you know, the discussion ends up being, to my mind, at least the same kind of thing.

[2373] Well, how many, how many cats is enough?

[2374] How many deer are enough?

[2375] You know, what's the balance that we're trying to achieve here?

[2376] What's the, because, you know, we're the ones who made the problem.

[2377] Look at Sochi.

[2378] I mean, they killed.

[2379] The Russian government came and killed a bunch of stray dogs because they had a real stray dog problem.

[2380] And that made news.

[2381] And healthy -looking stray dogs, too, by the way.

[2382] Yeah, they were.

[2383] But they shot a bunch of dogs.

[2384] Steve, you've had this conversation many times, I'm sure, and one of them I watched in a book signing that you had.

[2385] I thought, was it a book signing?

[2386] Yeah, a Pita guy came.

[2387] Fascinating.

[2388] And he was cool because he came to a book event I did and sat there through the whole thing.

[2389] waited until the question period raised his hand and then took me to task on the idea of hunting and that everything I was saying was just like a justification for wanting to harm animals and harm animals and kill animals.

[2390] And I pointed out to him and something that I've said many times and I'll say many times more.

[2391] I think the people who come at it with a perspective of have an anti -hunting perspective are defending a set of ideas that they're concerned for animals, they're concerned for wildlife, they're concerned for the well -being in the natural world.

[2392] They're defending a set of ideals that I know that I understand better than they do.

[2393] I care more about it than they do.

[2394] I know much, much more about it than they do.

[2395] I'm more vested in safeguarding the things that they think they're safeguarding than they are.

[2396] I mean, I just am, you know.

[2397] I might not, in my mind, there's a vast difference between an individual wild animal and the idea or the essence of that species.

[2398] It's difficult for people to understand an idea that they're saying, like, if you love this animal so much, how could you kill it?

[2399] And it might be if you came down from Mars or came down from outer space, might seem like this really counterintuitive notion.

[2400] But because of the way we manage wildlife, particularly in this country, we have where we manage wildlife as a public trust thing, as a renewable resource.

[2401] The funding for wildlife research, the funding for enforcement, the funding for habitat improvement in this country is coming out of hunting license sales, is coming out of excise taxes that are on firearms and sporting goods.

[2402] Guys that hunt are financing to a large measure, American wildlife.

[2403] That's particularly the case.

[2404] And even more, I mean, you could say that, oh, sure, that's just inadvertent.

[2405] They don't mean to do that.

[2406] They just need to have a gun and they want to have a hunting license.

[2407] But then you look at the work of organizations like National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, you know these groups that are hunter -based habitat improvement, hunter -based wildlife organizations, those are the people paying for the things.

[2408] and financing the research that gives the anti -hunters even an idea of what they're trying to defend.

[2409] Like in this country, it would not exist if we didn't have some idea of publicly owned, commodified wildlife, where we recognize that wildlife has value and should be maintained for the future.

[2410] You could have a bunch of rosy opinions about, oh, that we would just take care of these things because we should.

[2411] And I agree, it'd be great if we did.

[2412] but one of the best things that can happen to a species now in contemporary America, one of the best things that can happen to it is that it has a perceived value to hunters because we want to make sure that our resources are safeguarded and are going to be around for a long time to come and they're going to be around for our kids.

[2413] I'm not talking about that it's altruistic or anything else is based on pragmatism, but we're taking care of our own and we're handling our own issues.

[2414] Have you ever had a real legitimate debate with someone who's an animal rights activist where they sat down for a long period of time, like on a podcast, and had a long -form conversation because - Never, because no one - It's a shallow conversation on their part.

[2415] And it's a shallow conversation on my part, because, like, if I sat down with someone, I'd go into it just as assholey as they would.

[2416] I'd go into it being like, I'm never going to change my mind.

[2417] I don't think you would, because that conversation.

[2418] that you had with that guy at that book signing shows that you've got a pretty nuanced point of view when it comes to this it's something you've considered I've tried to defend it from that point of view in order to understand it better and the problem is there's nothing there it gets shallow yeah you go into this idea of overpopulation you go in the idea of what what are you going to do you're going to bring in predators like how are you going to control this population because if you don't you don't really love these animals because the bottom line about game animals when it comes to like things like deer and else they must be hunted either by wolves or by mountain lions or by people because if they're not they're just going to fuck and they're just going to overpopulate and they're going to get diseases or you get like something like the hamps or you get or you wind up where you're at with the hamptons or where you're at with new zealand where then you have government financed control efforts where you have people willing to pay to do something or you finance the you know the sort of managed well i wanted i would love to hear that conversation like what is the what's what's the contrary point of view talk to bill mar no he's a fucking silly bitch that guy is so silly he's friends with anne culter and he's he's such a weird dude when it comes to so many things but the pita thing is a knee -jerk reactionary thing that you can do if you're getting all your food from a fucking supermarket you're so not in touch with the natural world you're banging playboy playmates at the mansion that's a fucking wildlife preserve right there that's a fenced in preserve yes it is well another area I'm sorry, go ahead.

[2419] I want to know what the point of view is.

[2420] What is the debate against it?

[2421] Because I've never seen it done.

[2422] I've never seen it successfully.

[2423] Because we'd be talking about two different things.

[2424] But you're not really.

[2425] But I think that people would come at it and they would be talking about just suffering.

[2426] Animal suffering.

[2427] I could never look someone in the eye and say, I could never look someone in the eye and say that an animal is willfully lending themselves to slaughter.

[2428] I could never look someone in the eye and say that, oh, yeah.

[2429] hunting animals is this painless procedure.

[2430] And so if they have a thing where they value if their primary thing is stopping any level of suffering happening to any individual sentient being and that's their goal.

[2431] My goal is just so different.

[2432] My goal is to have a manage, when I say manage, I'm just saying sustainable, I'm not saying to have a sustainable suite of North American wildlife that we can manage into the future for myself and future generations to enjoy and that we can leave the country and leave the world in a better place ecologically than we found it.

[2433] I think that's a scientific perspective, Steve.

[2434] And when you're talking to Pita people, the reason that it's hard to figure, it's religious.

[2435] You're talking about religious fanatics in a way.

[2436] Well, it's a shallow thinking process because they've only looked at it on the surface and they've looked at it in a way where they've conveniently ignored the fact that these animals that have a finite lifespan and that the animals that are traditionally hunted by predators.

[2437] Whether it's human predator.

[2438] You're arguing with people who are religious.

[2439] But are they or are they just trying to, are they just nice people that have it look deep into it?

[2440] Some people, I think some of the Pita people and some of the movement came when we realized that big pharma and cosmetics industry and we're using animals for experiments like chimpanzees and bunny rabbits with lipstick.

[2441] And a lot of people said you know, why are you making animals suffer on these farms where you're using them for their fur and using testing makeup on them and they're going blind or you're seeing how a monkey reacts when you take its baby away and the animal sobs or even, and I don't know the extent of how much HIV drugs have benefited from experimentation on chimpanzees, but I've read very heartbreaking accounts of chimpanzees that are given HIV and they just sob because they feel sick.

[2442] and they feel terrible, and they literally just put their head in their hands and sob alone in some case.

[2443] So you can understand all of us, I think all of us go, wait a minute.

[2444] I can understand going, that's not right.

[2445] I don't want to buy products that are tests on animals, and we all do that.

[2446] So I think some of the PETA movement was fueled by that particular thing.

[2447] Yeah, well, Doug just – Doug raises beef cattle, and he just said that there's some cattle practices that he's uncomfortable with.

[2448] Yeah.

[2449] So, I mean, we're all drawing lines, and you're right.

[2450] Olivas could look like, if you can put some kind of shampoo in a rabbit's eye and determine that that's not a good recipe for shampoo, and you could have arrived the same conclusion in some way that didn't involve animal suffering, it's a potent argument.

[2451] Yeah.

[2452] But a lot of drugs that save lives, you start in a petri dish, then you do test them on animals, and the last group is a control group of humans.

[2453] Just read a book about this.

[2454] That's what you do.

[2455] And the reason you test it on animals is because you have to test them on animals.

[2456] have to see initially how it's going to react in an organism as complex as an animal organism to see if it has adverse side effects before you go on to test it onto a human.

[2457] So it's a, but I can appreciate, like I said, when somebody says, if you're testing animals to see if you, if somebody can look prettier, I can see that being somebody can have an objection.

[2458] Right, and so then it becomes a question of what's, what's worth testing on animals.

[2459] And I couldn't agree with you more And Steve's right In my people will call you If you're mistreating your animals in our area Other people who have animals And people who hunt If you're mistreating your animals You get called out on it in our area People will say you know wait a minute Just like if you're doing poor Management practices in your fields and whatnot People will call you out on it Why aren't you doing contour stripping Or why aren't you taking care of things So you know it's sort of an extension of that So you know in my view It ends up being there's a balance in all of this.

[2460] And yeah, case by case, I'd go with you.

[2461] There's things, I mean, I'm not worried about, personally not worried about eye makeup or that kind of stuff.

[2462] So I don't think it makes sense.

[2463] Maybe you should be.

[2464] You'd look beautiful.

[2465] There was a question about whether I was, you know.

[2466] And that grocery.

[2467] I know.

[2468] But the marketplace, by the way, because of that education, a lot of the marketplace has said, you know, you see a lot of, how many products you see that not tested on animals?

[2469] So in a lot of ways, the marketplace kind of went, you know what?

[2470] A lot of people, all of us went.

[2471] I don't want an animal.

[2472] I don't want that cream.

[2473] Well, there's such a big difference between testing cosmetics, which is so frivolous and testing medicine, which can save your children.

[2474] This is a huge difference in my eyes.

[2475] I don't have a problem with them testing medicine that can save babies.

[2476] I'm sorry I don't.

[2477] I like people more than I like animals.

[2478] Like the polio vaccine.

[2479] I mean, all of our major vaccines, man, we wouldn't have them.

[2480] Yeah, I have two dogs.

[2481] I have two cats.

[2482] I love animals.

[2483] I fucking do love animals.

[2484] I love to eat them, too, though.

[2485] I'll tell you a surprising thing I saw one time.

[2486] Do we have more?

[2487] We have like a couple minutes.

[2488] We're running out of steam here.

[2489] I'll say it for next time.

[2490] We turn into a pumpkin at three hours in.

[2491] So we talk about a lot of this on the show, Meat Eater.

[2492] We did.

[2493] Tomorrow night.

[2494] The show needs to be an hour.

[2495] Don't you think the show needs to be an hour?

[2496] I'd love to see the show be an hour.

[2497] Tell us Sportsman channel to Ken, that Sarah Palin brought fucking moves Stephen out of an hour.

[2498] Yeah, I've had some questions about that one, too, but.

[2499] Hey, I'm sure he's going to bring attention to the network, which is a great thing because it's a great network, and they support that show, which is the best show on television.

[2500] I think all the time about going an hour and we talk about the upsides and downsides is going on an hour.

[2501] There's no downside.

[2502] There's no downside.

[2503] There's something really just, but I've fallen in love, a little bit, a hesitant love with just how clean and crisp a well done, 20, like, how clean and crisp, like a well -done.

[2504] It's too good a show.

[2505] You're right.

[2506] That's too good a show.

[2507] It needs 44 minutes.

[2508] Please, it means an hour.

[2509] It needs no commercials.

[2510] That's great.

[2511] I couldn't agree with you more but I really got to get this in or Helen is going to give me heck after a while Helen's going to give me hell and that is the show on but then also the show on tomorrow night is the second part of our episode and honestly I'm excited to see it because I have no idea what happens in this second part other than I know what happened while we were there but what became a part of the show what out of that 80 hours made into the 20s yeah that's really interesting and Steve you know with the first show he did Steve warned me and said well you know nobody likes the way they come across.

[2512] Nah, you came across the way.

[2513] And I came, yeah, and I felt exactly the opposite.

[2514] And then the other thing is that you can download episodes on, I can never remember the name.

[2515] Meat eater .v .v .v .v .v. VHX.

[2516] Medeater.

[2517] VHX.

[2518] That's exactly right.

[2519] Okay.

[2520] Go there.

[2521] There is.

[2522] There is.

[2523] You can stream and download.

[2524] There it is right there.

[2525] Oh, yeah.

[2526] Yeah.

[2527] Awesome fucking show.

[2528] Live to hunt.

[2529] Live, bro.

[2530] It really is the best show on television.

[2531] And, you know, I get, you know, get a lot of compliments about the show, people that love it, that I turned on to it, and they're not even hunters.

[2532] They have no desire to hunt.

[2533] They never want to hunt.

[2534] They just love it.

[2535] It's a great show.

[2536] It's a great narration.

[2537] It's a really special show, man. Joe Rogan's the best thing that ever happened to the show.

[2538] There it is, ladies gentlemen.

[2539] Well, I'm honored.

[2540] I'm honored that you've had us on not once but twice, and that we're going to do it again, and maybe would count.

[2541] Well, if you don't want to laugh, I don't have the honor.

[2542] We're going to Alaska, we're going to fuck up some moose, all right?

[2543] It's happening.

[2544] If there's room, I don't want to be a...

[2545] We'll make room.

[2546] We'll make another raft.

[2547] We'll buy some more land from the Soviet Union.

[2548] You just send Clifford as money.

[2549] Clifford's Critter Creations is like, I got a teddy bear for my daughter.

[2550] It's a long story.

[2551] Don Clifford's a good man. Follow Steve Rinella on Twitter.

[2552] Stephen Rinella on Twitter.

[2553] You could follow Brian Callan on Twitter as well.

[2554] B -R -Y and Instagram.

[2555] C -A -L -L -E -N and on Instagram.

[2556] Both guys, Stephen Rinella and Brian Call on Instagram.

[2557] The show is on the sportsman's channel find it it's on direct TV it's 605 on direct TV or 606 605 I think it's channel 605 on direct TV just find it sportsman's channel it's an excellent show it's meat eater and it's on tomorrow night it'll be the final episode Thursday is 8 o 'clock Eastern and it's on during the week you can run a search for it you're not an idiot you know how to do it Doug durin you're a fucking awesome human being it's been a pleasure to be a bubbly dog man come see me this weekend yeah come see Brian Callown.

[2558] My buddy, Ronnie Bame, my buddy Ronnie Bame, one of my best friends, lifelong, almost lifelong hunting partner, went to see Brian Callan.

[2559] He gave it two thumbs up.

[2560] He said, quote, I laughed my dick off.

[2561] I like it.

[2562] Coming to Minneapolis to see you.

[2563] I know.

[2564] I'll be in the Punchline, yeah, you'll be there.

[2565] I'll be there.

[2566] Come to Minneapolis to see you.

[2567] I'll be in the punchline and then Minneapolis next weekend.

[2568] Laugh your dicks off.

[2569] Punchline in San Francisco, one of the great comedy clubs in the country.

[2570] It's a perfect setup.

[2571] I love that fucking club.

[2572] I will be at the Verizon Theater in Dallas on March 14th with Ari Shafir and Duncan Trussell.

[2573] Then I'll be in Miami at the Jackie Gleason Theater on April 3rd with Tony Hinchcliffe.

[2574] And then I'll be in Orlando on April 18th at some fucking theater.

[2575] And then go to joe rogan .net for tickets.

[2576] Figure it out, all right?

[2577] I can't tell you everywhere I'm going to be.

[2578] Look, we love to fuck out of you, people.

[2579] We got a lot of crazy podcast coming up next week.

[2580] I've got Louis Thoreau.

[2581] I got Robert Green and someone else.

[2582] I forget who that is.

[2583] They're going to be mad at me, but whatever.

[2584] Fucking deal with it.

[2585] All right.

[2586] Thanks to our sponsors.

[2587] Thanks to Ting.

[2588] Go to Rogan