What's Next For Julia Wandelt In Prison? Female Ex Prisoner Fran Explains | Podcast 702 Julia Wandel

[0] Hey, good evening everybody and thank you for joining us this evening with Fran.

[1] Some of you may be familiar with Fran, but I'm going to assume that a lot of you, our new subscribers, are not familiar with Fran's amazing story whereby she was incarcerated, got involved with the gangs with the substances in a UK city and she ended up on this journey through the UK female prison system.

[2] where she met and was inspired by Kate Middleton, of all people.

[3] Can you believe it?

[4] Fran has her own YouTube channel, and all of her social links are in the description box below this video.

[5] She's also one of the ex -female gangsters in my book, Sit Downs with Female Gangsters.

[6] And please go and support Fran at her YouTube channel.

[7] Link is in the description box, and I'll put it in the live chat shortly as well.

[8] So before we get into all this, huge thank you for coming on, Fran.

[9] And, you know, for viewers who are not familiar with your story, if you just give them a little bit of background before we get into this, that'd be great.

[10] Sure.

[11] Yeah.

[12] So thank you for having me on, Sean, anyway.

[13] And so I was done for conspiracy to supply class A drugs.

[14] I served three years, eight months behind bars, got into the drug world from about 13, was a drug addict, hence why I ended up selling drugs.

[15] And now I'm out of that world totally, set up a YouTube channel to support, you know, people that might be facing prison or have an understanding about why we do the things we do.

[16] All right.

[17] So I know I've sent you some little bit of information about Julia.

[18] You're not, you know, you've not really been following the story in the depth.

[19] The people on this channel have been following it.

[20] But your expertise is in the UK prison system.

[21] So from what you've seen today then, what do you think is happening with her right now in terms of her getting processed?

[22] Would she be shipped out away from Leicester?

[23] Let's start with that kind of a question.

[24] So basically, first of all, she could go anywhere.

[25] It really depends.

[26] Obviously, it has to be a Raman prison.

[27] Even if you're sentenced, you go to Raman prison, they don't take reception people in other prisons.

[28] So, you know, it could be Bronzefield.

[29] It could be Peterborough.

[30] It could be, like I said, the closest one that's got beds available.

[31] And she could still be sat waiting in reception now because...

[32] They normally take people after court.

[33] Now, if she hasn't got a bus there waiting for her to pick her up, there could be one somewhere else.

[34] That van's got to get to the courts, then get her so she could currently still be sat at the reception waiting to go to her cell.

[35] So if she arrives at one of these prisons then, will they know she is coming because she is so high profile?

[36] They will probably try and keep it really quiet.

[37] I mean, obviously, if people are following this on the news, the girls are going to be like, oh, my God, I wonder if she's going to come here.

[38] But obviously the prison will probably try and keep it as quiet as possible because she's so high profile.

[39] I doubt they'll put her in segregation for a little while.

[40] It's not like her crime is a wrong and crime.

[41] Do you know what I mean?

[42] So she'll probably just get put straight into the general public.

[43] Yeah, let's talk about the nature of crimes and how people are treated in the female side, because sometimes it's different from the men's side.

[44] So if, you know, a person has harmed a child, for example, then in the female side, there might be some convict justice for that.

[45] Yeah, of course.

[46] Yeah.

[47] I mean, they'll straight away be put on either an enhanced wing or a like.

[48] a vulnerable wing then i sort of call it like a protection wing so if they go on enhanced you know i might have to work my ass off to get on there but they'll come straight on there because they know the people on there don't want to cause trouble because they don't want to lose the privileges or they'll just go to where all them kind of people go normally they tend to sort of go to one wing of the prison all right so the views are zooming up in the live stream here we're over a thousand watching live presently across all the socials.

[49] I'm here with Fran who did time in the UK.

[50] So please put your questions in the live chat for Fran because she has absolute expertise on all of the UK prison conditions, the politics, the dynamics, how the officers treat them, et cetera.

[51] And we will get as much information as we can so we can try and get an understanding of Julia's journey.

[52] Now, Julia has been portrayed by the mainstream media.

[53] as an absolute crackpot, an imposter, a fake, who's mentally ill, and the trolls have been saying, you know, me having her on here, I'm just taking advantage of this person, etc. Well, she was referred to us by John Wedger, an ex -Scotland Yard detective, who said, Sean, ignore the media headlines, Julia is a lovely young woman, and all she's struggling to do is to find out her identity.

[54] That's all she wants.

[55] And my mom was adopted.

[56] She spent decades trying to find her natural parents.

[57] So that resonates with me when someone, I know if you don't know your identity, you don't know who your parents are properly, you will move heaven and earth.

[58] And my mom went through depression and anxiety and all kinds of things on her journey.

[59] So I understand what Julia is going through.

[60] So because that is what is motivating her.

[61] And that is what the police have used to classify as criminal acts.

[62] When the prisoners understand Julia's journey, how will they treat her?

[63] Because I'm just a bit worried that they'll see these headlines in the media and the prisoners will think, oh, that's true.

[64] But if they give Julia a chance to tell her side, it's a completely different story.

[65] I mean, you've got to remember the first thing is, Sean, people in prison, they don't trust the media.

[66] You know, a lot of people have already been portrayed by them, so they will hear her out.

[67] And I think so many people are going to take her under her wing because in prison you have mum, you have pups, you have auntie, you know, and I think there's women in there that even though they've gone to prison, they would...

[68] absolutely die for their children you know they will they would do anything and you know if your child's gone missing you would do anything to find your child as well um so I actually think a lot of people are actually going to look after her well that is reassuring to hear Fran thank you now the most common question that's coming up in the chat is what kind of visits would she be allowed at this stage of her journey So if she's on remand, so for example, in Bronzefield, when I was on remand, I was allowed to visit six days a week.

[69] The only reason you couldn't have seven is because they never done visits on a Friday.

[70] So I do believe that should be the same across all of the remand prisons.

[71] So she'll be allowed to have visits from anyone, but she's got to obviously have their name, date of birth and address to be able to add them on the system to be able to go and visit her.

[72] Now, is there a limit in the UK on how many people you can have on your visitation list?

[73] Where I was housed in Arizona, there was like a limit of 10 people?

[74] No, I had more than 10 on mine.

[75] I definitely had more than 10 people because I pretty much had a visit every day for eight and a half months and it wasn't the same people.

[76] Is it the case that the prison will have to let the public know she's there?

[77] Like in America, you know, each prison's got a number.

[78] And the public can call a prison phone number and put the number in.

[79] It tells them where they are.

[80] There's a website, tells them where they are, tells them the charges, everything.

[81] Is it the same in the UK or do they hide people in the system?

[82] No, I think they hide people in the UK, especially when it's such a high profile because the prison don't want the publicity.

[83] So is it the case then that if the public found out she was at prison A and it became a big deal, she would be passed on to prison B?

[84] It depends on her behaviour.

[85] Not really, no. Because, I mean, they're going to find out regardless and then they're just going to have to keep moving her and moving her.

[86] So that isn't the case.

[87] But just for some reason, it's hard to find out where somebody is until obviously women talk to women and it gets out.

[88] Jen is saying, do you still have mates in the system who might be able to look after you?

[89] I'm on it, Jen.

[90] I'm on it.

[91] Honestly, I've been messaging everybody today, so fingers crossed.

[92] We'll be able to find out soon.

[93] Oh, that's fantastic.

[94] Will they arrest Sean for helping Julia?

[95] I don't think Fran can answer that one, JA3.

[96] But no, I mean, there's no reason is there to, you know, we're all allowed to help and support people.

[97] Yeah, just to expand on what's happened as well, Fran.

[98] So the police are alleging that Julia has a pattern of contact in the McCann's and they're citing a visit she did.

[99] She doorstepped them and recorded the conversation with them.

[100] She went to a vigil that they were supposed to attend, and they're saying that she's contacted them through social media, WhatsApp, et cetera, including the siblings.

[101] So they're saying because it's multiple incidences, that constitutes harassment and stalking.

[102] So that is the basis for the allegations right now.

[103] Did you ever come across anyone in the system that had charges anything like that?

[104] I'm sure there was one girl.

[105] I can't remember the whole story, but no one will care about that.

[106] Unless it's anything to do with a child, nobody will care what your crime is.

[107] And, you know, to lose a child is the most horrific thing in the world, which is what the McCanns have gone through.

[108] But, you know, some people think that they were negligent.

[109] If I took baby Ziggy overseas, I wouldn't.

[110] you know just just leave him so i imagine that some of the prisoners um have concerns of the nature of maddie being missing so yeah i mean i think a lot of people obviously think you know the parents are at fault i want you know that's everyone's opinion um so They're going to have a judgment on the parents, not Julia.

[111] I really think they're going to want to help her and support her.

[112] I mean, one, it's so high profile people.

[113] Some girls are just going to be like, oh, you know, let me be your friend.

[114] And because you're, you know, you're someone so big.

[115] But also, I think there really will be genuine women that really will feel for her, you know, and she's just lost the plot.

[116] You know, she wants to know.

[117] She wants to know these people are her parents.

[118] And I can't imagine what that would do to me mentally.

[119] Yeah, exactly.

[120] So Carrie is asking, how do visitors give her details of addresses, et cetera, if she doesn't know them, but she wants them to visit?

[121] Isn't she in a bit of a catch -22?

[122] Like people don't know where she is.

[123] And if they've took her phone, she wouldn't have the information or the means to contact.

[124] Yeah, that's correct.

[125] This is part of why I do the channel that I've done is to prepare women.

[126] So when you go in, you'll get a five minute phone call, but you've got to know a phone number off by heart.

[127] They're not going to switch your phone on.

[128] That stuff is in a bag, stored, sealed.

[129] They're not going to let you get your phone out.

[130] So you need to know a phone number for one.

[131] um the only thing you can do is write to pretty much every prison but with her name and if and the date of birth on there um i don't know 100 in every prison but i know recently a friend of mine i have a halfway to prison and they said that you can write here we can't tell you if they're here but make sure you write their date of birth on the envelope so then you would have to write to her and then put all your details in there and then she'd add you on typically when a prisoner's just arrived then does it take them like several days or a couple of weeks to get all that in motion whereby they can get visits visits don't just happen overnight yeah no it can be an absolute nightmare because like i said if you haven't got the details with you you get two free to second class letters a week so you'd have to write home write to whoever obviously you've got to know the address then you've got to ask them for them details they've got to then write back in or they could email a prisoner so it'd be a lot quicker once you've got the prison number you can email them and then she'd have to add them on then they've got to be cleared by security so like you said it could be a good two weeks before you can get it all set up and running and then to email a prisoner is there a website that the public can go to to set that up and you have to like register and put money down so that julia can respond yeah so if you go to email a prisoner um just put it into google and then what you do is because i you know i've used it before quite a few times you put all your details in you know your address and everything like that and then you just pay by card and you add like five pound on you can write them up an email but you've got to know their name i think i'm not 100 sure on the date of birth But you need to know their prison number and the prison that they're in.

[132] And then you can pay 25p for a reply sheet on top and then they can reply back to you.

[133] It's a much quicker process.

[134] And how important to prisoners are emails and letters and visits?

[135] Oh, them hugely.

[136] Honestly, like I was a nightmare for replying, but just getting mad with knowing that people hadn't given up on me. They were still there, especially now they've got.

[137] the email prisoner you know guys if you've got someone in there you're just just a two -liner like i used to get them and i used to just love it you know having something put through your door every day sort of knowing about the outside and you sit texting so you can sit and you know write a quick email and visits as well yeah so a few people are asking You know, why are they holding that?

[138] Because it seems pretty lightweight, these charges.

[139] And in my experience in America, if you were from a foreign country, you were much less likely to get bailed out because they considered you a flight risk.

[140] Did you ever experience anything like that in the UK system with the foreign population?

[141] So, yeah, so they would never get bail.

[142] I don't think they would all get like deported sort of nine months.

[143] They'd get nine months off their sentence and they'd get deportated back to their country.

[144] I don't think I know anybody that would have got out because like you said, they would have flee.

[145] So do you think there's a chance then that because of the flight risk factor, she might be incarcerated for the whole duration of the legal process and then deported?

[146] Yeah, I mean, it depends because obviously you've got to have the right to live in the UK.

[147] So that might be the problem.

[148] So if she's got the right to live in the UK, then she might well get bail.

[149] And then obviously they could take her passport and give her restrictions of not going anywhere near, you know, who she thinks her parents are.

[150] And then but obviously if she's not got the right to live in the UK, then they will keep her in prison.

[151] So Pam is wondering.

[152] For outsiders then who are going into these institutions, what are you allowed to take in when you are visiting?

[153] And is there anything you are not allowed to have?

[154] You're not allowed to have anything other than a bank card.

[155] So you can buy food for who you're visiting.

[156] But yeah, that's it.

[157] Sometimes they never let you wear hoodies and stuff.

[158] You do need to check with the prison.

[159] But other than that, yeah, you can't take anything in.

[160] And if you are visiting, do you need to present ID?

[161] Yeah, so I would advise you to take your driving licence, passport and then also a letter of proof of address because some of them can be really anal.

[162] So Jenny's wondering if you can give a detailed description of what her first day night would be like.

[163] She's going to be absolutely terrified.

[164] I'm not going to lie.

[165] You know, I say to women all the time, the first two weeks are horrific, but obviously the first night is the absolute worst because if she comes in any time from like now, it will be really quiet.

[166] I mean, someone might have their music on or whatever, but it will be really quiet.

[167] And then obviously she's going to sit there.

[168] There might be a chance that a TV doesn't work.

[169] And if it doesn't, if there's no aerial or something like that, then, you know, you're sat there with your own thoughts.

[170] But then in the morning is probably more scarier than going in at night because as soon as them doors unlock, like I said to everyone, it sounds like you've let the animals out of the zoo.

[171] It is just chaos.

[172] Chaos.

[173] And then does that start with chowing the house?

[174] Sorry?

[175] Does that start with the food getting served in the morning?

[176] Yeah, yeah.

[177] So everyone just comes running out the cell.

[178] Everyone's like, if you haven't got a shower in your room, some people might run to the showers on the landing.

[179] And then, yeah, surgery opens.

[180] Everyone gets their food and everyone's shouting above everyone.

[181] And it's just like, yeah.

[182] And then it's like the officers shouting, like, get ready for work.

[183] And it's just crazy.

[184] It's so noisy.

[185] Would she have a cellmate right away or would she get her own cell?

[186] She shouldn't do.

[187] You're supposed to go in on in a single cell the first night, everybody.

[188] But if the prison is full and it was a last minute thing that she's gone there and there's only one room like with a stubble, she could go straight into a double.

[189] So in America, jail is remand on sentenced and prison is where people go when they are sentenced.

[190] So there's some confusion amongst the viewers.

[191] about is she in a jail or unsentenced prison or a proper prison where people are sentenced.

[192] But in the UK, isn't it all the same thing?

[193] They can just all be mixed.

[194] Yeah, so it's all the same thing.

[195] But let's just say we've got 20 prisons in the UK, female, just as a guess.

[196] Four of them will be remand.

[197] They class it as remand.

[198] So even if you've been sentenced, you will go to the remand prison because they only take people from court.

[199] ones don't but they're all the same they look the same kind of thing you know obviously remand are a lot bigger than when you go to a sentence prison but in bronzefield there's five it holds 550 women you know 300 of them women could be sentenced they're just waiting on the ship out all right so we've got 2000 watching live i'm here with fran and all of fran's links are in the description box below this video please support her important work helping People understand the dynamics of prison helping ex -inmates get reintegrated into society.

[200] I'm going to put a link for Fran's YouTube in the live chat as well.

[201] If people are watching it on replay, it's in the description box.

[202] And Fran also has her own amazing story, which she tells on a channel.

[203] And we did a podcast with her years ago.

[204] And I'll put the link for the podcast we did with Fran.

[205] interesting aspect of that is she meets Kate Middleton of all people in prison and is inspired.

[206] We'll run on with the Julia questions in a minute, Fran, but what was that like meeting Kate Middleton?

[207] mate it was insane like i say all the time you don't meet her in the normal world let alone go to prison and i remember we found out on the slide we wasn't supposed to know apparently they asked me to do some documentary thing and um i was working at the front of the prison in like the staff cafe i just started my rottles and the woman come out she's like you still down for doing that like interview thing i was like yeah she went put this on and then you got a bit the visit sort half 12 but some guy was telling an officer at the front and then He was like, oh, no, because he realised that us four had heard him.

[208] So I'm going, oh, my God, I'm going to the cell.

[209] I'm like, oh, my God.

[210] Like, I was a bit surreal.

[211] And then when we sat in this room waiting for her to come in, I'm like, Fran, don't swear.

[212] Fran, don't swear.

[213] I mean, I was just like, I haven't got curtsy and stuff like that.

[214] But it was insane.

[215] I got to sit with her for about 20 minutes as well.

[216] So people, there's a lot of questions coming up about visits.

[217] Is there such a thing as a no visit list in the UK?

[218] So everyone's entitled to a visit, if that's what you mean.

[219] Some people don't have anybody on the outside to visit.

[220] But once you're sentenced, it's like four visits a month you get.

[221] And then if you're enhanced, which means you're a good prisoner, you get an extra two a month.

[222] Oh, that's nice, Ruth.

[223] Fran is how I found Sean's channel.

[224] Appreciate that.

[225] yeah so let me just go here we got loads um are the unlimited visits on remand or is it just a certain amount of hours a week yeah so it so like i said in bronzefield um it was six days a week only one a day but it was six days a week and you only couldn't have seven because one of the days they didn't do visits at all so it is unlimited basically so Some people are saying that her hearing may have been moved to next week in the chat.

[226] And I was told to check Julia's Instagram before I came on, but I'll do that while Fran answers the next question.

[227] Fran, is there a difference because this is a stalking case over and above?

[228] Any other offence?

[229] Not really.

[230] Sorry, my kitten's scratching me. No, like there's not.

[231] I mean, it's, I think it's really, I think it's a stupid case to be in prison for because obviously, okay, stalking can be a really bad thing.

[232] I think in this scenario, it's a little bit different.

[233] And like I said before, you know, unless your offense is to do with children, it doesn't really matter if you've unaligned someone or like even terrorism.

[234] Everyone just looks at everybody the same.

[235] Right.

[236] I see.

[237] So they get along, you know, in the male side.

[238] It's all drug gangs and people running up debts and getting beat up and all kinds of politics and drama.

[239] Does that cross over to the female side or is it more civilized?

[240] Yeah, I mean, there is a lot of debts and drugs and stuff like that.

[241] There's a lot of it in the female side.

[242] I mean, obviously, I was only in two prisons and there was no such thing as gangs.

[243] It didn't matter if you was a geeky kid, if you, you know, black, white, Chinese, whatever.

[244] As long as you, like I said, you didn't do anything with kids, you all looked at the same.

[245] But there was fights over drugs and debts, but it's nothing in comparison to the men's.

[246] I think there's a lot more bitchiness than there is physicalness.

[247] What was the craziest stuff you saw in the female prison in terms of altercations?

[248] I mean, the most stupidest one was they just brought in the smoking ban.

[249] So it was about October 2017.

[250] And so everybody's running out.

[251] Everyone's scrounging.

[252] And this girl's gone.

[253] Like, there's a little bit of a roll up.

[254] Give it to such and such.

[255] And then she smoked.

[256] She said, have a little bit and then give it to her.

[257] Anyway, this girl's fuming how much she smoked.

[258] And they were punching each other's heads in over this bit of like.

[259] tobacco it was mental but I mean they're proper fighting like men like it was crazy and is you know like it's it's gangs in where I was at it was all racial gangs you got the postcode wars in the men's prisons in London the women click up in different kinds of ways No, not only.

[260] I can only speak on behalf, obviously, of the two prisons I've been.

[261] I know there's a lot more rougher women's one, but there was no gangs.

[262] There was no like racism.

[263] I think I probably felt more racism off the officers than I did the prisoners.

[264] You know, it didn't matter what religion you was.

[265] Everyone just got on with everybody.

[266] Well, kind of.

[267] So how do the staff treat the female inmates?

[268] So in the first one, I was in Bronzefield.

[269] Because it's quite near London, it's a lot like, you know, you had all different sort of races of offices and stuff like that.

[270] So I didn't see any, I didn't feel any racism in there.

[271] But it's weird because you've got the young ones that try and be your pal.

[272] Then you've got the ones that you can tell that just kind of get a kick out of like, like shouting and screaming at you.

[273] And then you've got ones that like generally care.

[274] In the second prison.

[275] There was hardly any black officers and you could see the way that they treated the black girls in comparison to the white girls.

[276] You could really feel it without them vocally saying it.

[277] And what about people who are foreign prisoners?

[278] Do they get treated differently by the staff and the domestic inmates?

[279] yeah no they're they're quite good really i found that a lot of the reception staff are really great like because i used to do the induction work so i'd meet and greet the new women that came in and if they were foreign they would and couldn't speak english they would try and go and find other girls that could speak the language and bring them to them to help settle them and stuff like that yeah um julia's got really good english so i imagine is it the case that the like if there was other polish in the You know, they naturally gravitate.

[280] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[281] Yeah.

[282] And it's not because they're a gang or anything like that.

[283] It's just a bit of home, isn't it?

[284] You know, so, yeah, you will find that.

[285] Yeah.

[286] Yeah.

[287] It's like, you know, we've interviewed people who've been in prisons all over the world.

[288] Whatever country they get arrested in, they always find some Brits to click up with in the prison or whatever country they're from.

[289] So you've been asked by JA Free if you could slowly take us through your first night.

[290] Do you know what?

[291] I went in with somebody that I got arrested with and they was in the cell next to me and I absolutely crapped myself.

[292] I don't even pretend to think that I'm big and hard because I absolutely crapped myself because all night...

[293] other than like it was quiet but then this one girl kept kicking and banging and screaming but it went on all night so you know that you've got to be mentally unstable to be able to do that because i couldn't kick and scream all night i'd just like pass out asleep on the floor And I just thought, oh, my God, I'm in a mental place.

[294] You're just absolutely crapping yourself.

[295] You don't know what you're going to come out to.

[296] You're like, oh, my God, and you think it's like the movies.

[297] You've got all your gangs and all this sort of stuff.

[298] Yeah, I was scared.

[299] You got a follow -up question about what your charges were and how long you served?

[300] Yeah, so I got done for conspiracy to supply Class A drugs.

[301] I got caught with seven kilos of Class A, and I served three years, eight months.

[302] And what was the food like for you on your first day?

[303] It was horrible.

[304] The bronze food was really bad.

[305] The food was like, it was crap.

[306] It was like really small portions.

[307] But the second one, it was good.

[308] It was good.

[309] You'd have fish Friday, fry -ups on a Saturday morning.

[310] You could cook up food in the microwave.

[311] The canteen sheet was insane.

[312] So with Julia then...

[313] be just given whatever food was on offer that day or did they have a menu in the UK prisons?

[314] Yeah, so that day when she goes into reception, they'll give her, you know what you get in the police station, like a microwave meal.

[315] So if she turns up at the prison at eight o 'clock, they'll say, are you hungry?

[316] If she is, they'll give her food whilst waiting to be in reception, like to go to her cell.

[317] But then after that, then she'll have breakfast, lunch and dinner.

[318] And then what she'll need to do is request.

[319] So you do have a menu of what you want to eat.

[320] But she might just get, I can't think of the word, but basically you.

[321] default because you haven't put in a thing so you just get what you're given but after a day or two she'll be able to sort her menu out and she'll choose what she wants to eat you don't have such a thing as food visits in the uk do you wear outsiders it's too risky isn't it because of all of the contraband but you can supplement your diet with things you can buy from the inmate store and treza is wondering how much would julia be able to spend per week If people are putting money on her books.

[322] So because she's on romance, she'll be allowed £50 a week from the outside.

[323] So she can, that will drop down onto her canteen sheet.

[324] So she'll get £50.

[325] Plus when she starts work, she will get whatever she earns from work.

[326] All right.

[327] And then what kind of stuff?

[328] Because where I was housed, it was all like garbage, cheap ass candy that they could just make a fortune off selling this rubbish to the prisoners.

[329] Is there anything nutritional in the UK?

[330] Sean, I think I've got a menu down in this box down here.

[331] You would not believe it.

[332] You can get so garlic, onions, fruits like kiwi, all fresh fruit.

[333] You can get tins of tuna, all different tins, potatoes, sweet corn.

[334] You can get pasta.

[335] You can get spaghetti because we boil the water in the kettles or in a container, put it in the microwave and cook pasta that way.

[336] I'm talking sauces, any fizzy drinks, chocolate, makeup.

[337] liquids for your vape like it's insane like i've even got a video of it on my youtube channel so guys if you're really interested um i could go on it's i think it's two a four pages like each side that's crazy the list you've got is that from when you were inside or is that the present day list yeah so that's from when i was inside but my friend inside he sent me a picture and it's pretty much the same you know all the prices would have gone up If you could email me a copy of that.

[338] Oh, yeah, sure.

[339] Yeah.

[340] I'd be interested to know.

[341] I can send you the food menu as well.

[342] Because they do like halal.

[343] They do vegan.

[344] You know, you get vegan cheese and all that.

[345] It's mental.

[346] I'll, yeah, I'll fling it all over after.

[347] And what's the procedure for people to put money on a box?

[348] um so you go on the government website you just put how to pay a prisoner money and then on there you need their name the date of birth and their prison number all right so and can people send money from around the world or do they have to be in the uk no um I think you can use it around the world.

[349] I'm not 100 % sure on that one because when I was in there, you used to be able to send, I think it's postal orders or something from, or you used to be able to send cash because I used to send it abroad.

[350] But I'm not sure on that one, actually.

[351] I'd have to look into that.

[352] All right, we've got almost 3 ,000 watching now.

[353] I'm going to put Fran's YouTube link in the live chat.

[354] And a lot of people have joined the stream and perhaps have not seen the previous several streams we've done in the last couple of days and are asking questions that we've already addressed.

[355] But let me just give a recap before we resume.

[356] So for people who are following and supporting Julia, who's done over a dozen episodes on this channel, many of us were startled and worried when a couple of days ago she was arrested at Bristol Airport.

[357] We did not know she was coming into this country and we would have advised her against it.

[358] Earlier that week, she just announced that she had done a DNA test and it matched.

[359] So she was on a high and the international media were reporting about this match.

[360] And then after she got arrested, they were all saying, you know, the fake Maddie, the stalker, etc. She's committed these alleged criminal offences.

[361] Well, anyway, that culminated with her getting moved from Bristol to Leicester.

[362] which is where the alleged offences occurred because that's where the McCann's live.

[363] And then today she was in court.

[364] There was four counts, four separate incidences.

[365] And they said there's been a pattern on WhatsApp and socials as well as the doorstepping.

[366] And they also said that it applies to the siblings as well.

[367] So there's four potential victims.

[368] So the...

[369] Person who met Julia at the airport, the 60 year old lady, she was arrested with her, but she was released today on bail.

[370] But they are holding Julia and Julia has been sent now from Leicester to a proper prison because here in the UK, if you are on remand, unsentenced, it is not a separate prison that you go to, which is called a jail in America.

[371] People are unsentenced and people are sentenced can end up in the very same prisons.

[372] So that is where we are at.

[373] And Fran, who has been a friend of the channel for years, who came and told her story here, and is also in my new book, Sit Downs with Female Gangsters, whole chapter on her.

[374] She has come on tonight to answer your questions.

[375] And there are tons of them still coming in unanswered.

[376] We've got until about 9 .30 until the next show starts.

[377] So we've got a good two hours to try and go over every possible detail of what Julie might be going through right now.

[378] We'll have to put Jen to the top of this, of course.

[379] Being the fashionista, fashion victim, I would like to know what clothes they would give her.

[380] Prison clothes?

[381] Not ones you'd like.

[382] I've even got the shorts and the vest as well in this box.

[383] I've got some stuff, Sean.

[384] So they're just a big grey tracksuit.

[385] And the worst bit is, you know, like tracksuits normally have the elastic at the bottom.

[386] These don't.

[387] So they just sort of come out.

[388] They're horrible.

[389] So you get, she'd have her clothes, obviously, that she was wearing.

[390] If she's come with a suitcase and she's got some clothes with her, she will be entitled to them.

[391] If she gets in too late tonight, she'll get them first thing in the morning.

[392] Other than that, it's like blue horrible little shorts, blue horrible vest and a great tracksuit and some really ugly pumps that your mum used to put you in when you was like four.

[393] Can you buy additional clothes from the prison?

[394] yeah so they have like a charity shop um so the so like i where i lost loads of weight when i was in prison so i gave all my clothes um that i had to this shop like so you just donate it and then the other prisoners that have no money they could go and buy my old boss jumper for like three pound so they can get clothes in there a lot of people have asked about mental health and Deb Dobbs said, I worked as a nurse in a male prison for a short time.

[395] There are more people with mental health issues in there than anything.

[396] Very scary all around.

[397] It's no picnic and no places for Julia to be.

[398] Now, Julia, we did an episode on the meds they'd put her on as a kid.

[399] And it was this wicked combination of psychotropics with side effects such as memory erasure.

[400] And I've never seen anything like it so potent to be used on a child, which is another thing that made us very suspicious about her origin and what she's been through.

[401] And she has had mental health problems over the years.

[402] She was in a good place when she came on the channel.

[403] And I know being incarcerated can knock your mental health back.

[404] So several questions have come in.

[405] about mental health screening would that have happened to her already you know would she be being watched closely because of the circumstances of a previous mental health issues Yeah.

[406] So anyone that goes in on the first night, you're under 24 hours observation anyway.

[407] So obviously people can come in very vulnerable.

[408] When you first go into reception, you will see a doctor.

[409] You'll have a chat with a doctor.

[410] It's not so much about mental health.

[411] It's sort of like, you know, are you OK?

[412] Are you on any medication?

[413] Because they then have to contact the doctors to get confirmation.

[414] And then by the next day, you know, they'll have.

[415] they'll get given their medication, but not in hand, but, you know, you go to the meds queue.

[416] If she comes in a bad state, they might put her straight on the mental health ward.

[417] So, like, Sen didn't really have one, but Bronzefield did.

[418] It was like a little landing, like a little wing of its own, separated from, like, the other end of the prison.

[419] It's not a nice place to be.

[420] I think that's even worse than being mixed in with other people.

[421] But, I mean, I had no idea about mental health until I went to prison.

[422] you know this is true there's so many different levels and it blew me away like how bad it is inside she will get to see a mental health worker it just depends on how she behaves when she gets in there whether it's a massive concern to the officers or not yeah where i was housed it was prison became by default the biggest house of the mentally ill when After one flew over, the cuckoo's nest came out and there was outrage in the public and they closed a lot of the mental hospitals down.

[423] They all drifted into the prison system.

[424] So the amount of meds that were being handed out to the prisoners was astronomical.

[425] You see guys doing the Thorazine shuffle, some seriously mentally ill people just drooling on themselves and stuff like that and mumbling.

[426] It's really sad to think that a lot of society's most vulnerable people end up...

[427] self -medicating on street drugs and then criminalized and then end up in the prison system because they're not given any help by society the tools to you know avoid those scenarios and then they become commodities don't they they're just warehoused the prisons get 60 ,000 a year 60 ,000 pounds 60 ,000 dollars a year of taxpayers money and they just become commodities to the private prisons and all these parasitic entities all right so pam saying If you get charged, do you only need to do half the time on good behavior?

[428] So my understanding is on these four counts, Fran, each one carries a maximum 12 -month sentence.

[429] So if they went super aggravated on Julia and stacked them all, the maximum sentence she could possibly get will be four years.

[430] And under the UK prison rules, would that mean she would...

[431] the maximum sentence she could possibly serve would be half of the four years?

[432] Yeah, I mean, it also depends if she goes guilty straight away.

[433] If she puts in a guilty plea and gets four years, she gets a third off that.

[434] So, like, I got 11 years, but because I went guilty, it got dropped to seven years, four months, and then she'll serve half of that.

[435] So if she goes guilty, she'll get a third off the four years, so she'll probably do about a year and a half.

[436] So does the clock start ticking as soon as she's rested?

[437] Does she get back time?

[438] Yeah, as soon as she goes into police custody, that's every night is a day off her sentence.

[439] Lady Roses, will Julie get a tablet that she can use to email from if money is put on her books?

[440] No. I know they do it in some of the men's prisons, but normally what happens is I'll send someone an email.

[441] They'll print it off.

[442] If you put a reply sheet, they'll put that in with the envelope.

[443] They'll post it through the door.

[444] If you send one in the morning, she should get that latest the next morning.

[445] And then she'll just write on the reply sheet, put it in the post box, and then they scan it over and email it back to you.

[446] So this question about the DNA then, I'll take this one.

[447] Will the DNA take long?

[448] Will that have to be brought up in court before sentencing her?

[449] And a lot of people are asking as to whether I think she is Madeleine McCann, which ties into this question.

[450] So Jean, there was an article that came out in the mail this morning that I did a live stream on.

[451] And that article said that because of the definition of her crime, she will be DNA tested automatically.

[452] Is that usually the case, Fran, that people in this age are DNA tested?

[453] Yeah, I mean, I wasn't.

[454] Well, they would at the police station, maybe, but for like for their records, but not in prison or anything like that.

[455] And that's just more for like the police station or do it more for their records, because then they've got it if a crime happened and your DNA was at the scene.

[456] OK, so at the time of the original arrest, then when the cops had it, that's where the DNA would be taken.

[457] So that's what the mail said.

[458] And the mail then added that now they've got this fresh DNA.

[459] It would enable the police to run it against the McCann's and get to the bottom of this.

[460] And even detractors of Julia are saying, for God's sake, it costs £60.

[461] to do a dna test they've spent almost 20 million pounds on the madeline mccann investigation why on earth wouldn't they just do this bloody dna test and put this thing to rest because look at the thousands they're spending now on arresting housing processing julia but you know this does create work for the legal vampires they've got vested interests and for the people who are asking me whether I think she is Madeleine McCann.

[462] Julia was brought to this channel by John Wedger, ex -cop out of London, Scotland Yard detective for decades.

[463] And when he contacted me, he said, Sean, I believe Madeleine McCann is dead.

[464] But Julia is a lovely person, as you will see when you speak to her, taking a notice of what it says in the media, and she deserves to tell a story.

[465] And I think...

[466] She does deserve to tell a story.

[467] And people who say she's not are just busybodies and they're against freedom of speech.

[468] I've never, ever said she's Madeleine McCann.

[469] I've said she has the right to tell her story.

[470] And I want you, the viewers, to take away from her own words whatever she says and for you to decide.

[471] So if this DNA test is expedited now because of the situation that's just happened, the arrest, and we know one of the theories is that Julia knew if she came to the UK, there was a risk she would be arrested and the DNA test would come and it would force the issue because she seems confident that she is Maddie.

[472] Yeah, maybe that was a strategy by Julia.

[473] So let's hope that it does get resolved soon and we know either way.

[474] So if it did come out that she was Maddie, obviously Julia would be over the moon and there would be a whole new way of looking at this case.

[475] If it comes out that she's not, At least she's going to have closure.

[476] But I imagine that she's going to, you know, the mental turbulence she's going through right now must be overwhelming her.

[477] So will the DNA have to be brought up in court before she was sentenced?

[478] That's beyond my pay grade to answer that.

[479] I don't know what to say to that.

[480] Yeah.

[481] All right.

[482] Let me go over to another question then.

[483] So if a prisoner is deported from the UK, if that were to happen to Julia, would she be banned from being able to return to visit the UK?

[484] Yeah.

[485] Yeah.

[486] They're not allowed back in the UK.

[487] Ever.

[488] So in my case in America, it was in my plea bargain.

[489] I would be banned for life from returning to America.

[490] In one of my friend's cases, DJ Mike Hot Wheels.

[491] It was in his plea bargain.

[492] He would be banned for five years for returning to America.

[493] And then after five years, he tried to return to America.

[494] Yeah, good luck.

[495] Good luck with that.

[496] All right, let me see.

[497] We've got almost 50 unanswered questions.

[498] How many attempts?

[499] Do you have a bail?

[500] Well, if you're P Diddy and you've got a billion dollars, you have attempts every bloody week.

[501] Have you seen people get repeated attempts at bail in the UK?

[502] No, I think you normally just go for bail.

[503] I don't know if you can go a couple of times.

[504] I think normally, I think in your first case, your solicitor will go for bail.

[505] And then obviously you get rejected, you go to prison.

[506] But once you're in prison, you can.

[507] apply for bail because my co -d her parents put up 10 000 pound and she got out i know a lot of people don't believe that in the uk but it's a fact like my co -d did get out someone's asking whether there's a risk you know if julia's mental health deteriorated that they would put her in a mental health facility or she would be sectioned now because there's women in there that um would walk around with um like uh what do you call it the wash laundry bags and say they were their dogs um they'd smash their faces in with flasks they'd rip their own face apart like that is sectioned material and they were still in prison so when i said to a prison officer why are these people not getting help and they'd say because the beds are all full in the mental hospital they're not safe to be on the street so they put them in prison so yeah your answer to that would probably be no wow Why was she coming to the UK and who was she visiting?

[508] So I don't know still why she was coming to the UK.

[509] The person she was visiting was arrested with her at the airport.

[510] And if she'd have run it by us, we would have told her not to come to the UK.

[511] And, you know, we had no idea that she was going to visit the McCann's or contact the McCann's.

[512] And if she'd ever brought that up with us, we would have absolutely told her.

[513] not to do anything of that kind because she's just setting herself up for the legal problems that have culminated um with this arrest yeah all right so are julia's actions really enough to get classified as stalking harassment she's just been trying to find out who she is so i did spend a considerable time on a few of the previous live streams memo going over the definition of it and when she first got arrested at the airport i was thinking this is silly you can't just arrest one as an airport but but now that they've come forward and give all of the incidences there's the door stepping there was the vigil that she attended and they're saying that there's been repeated um communications through whatsapp instagram etc not just to the parents but to the kids and phone calls And it does appear to me within the definition, the legal definition, that they can apply that to her at this point.

[514] It seems a weak case.

[515] I'm not defending the prosecution here.

[516] It seems a really weak case and an absolute tragedy.

[517] Because if you look at the motive, this lady is just trying to find out who the bloody hell she is.

[518] I mean, can you imagine not knowing who your parents really are?

[519] how that would affect your life.

[520] My mum was adopted.

[521] It devastated her.

[522] And, you know, I've seen it play out in real time.

[523] So I'm hoping that this DNA test will go through and she'll know one way or the other just to get that closure.

[524] So it's not just in her mind all the time, stressing her out.

[525] Can they confirm she's the daughter with her DNA test alone?

[526] But did it have to rest?

[527] Well, Sarah, we are hoping that is the case.

[528] do you think she will stay strong and plead her case no matter what the charge?

[529] She's a warrior.

[530] She's got the fighting spirit.

[531] She's come on here.

[532] And she's basically turned herself into a private investigator on her own case.

[533] She could get a job as a private investigator when she gets out, I think.

[534] All right, here's a good question.

[535] It's come up several times.

[536] Fran, do you think that the media attention and support from us, with that, it will make them go lighter?

[537] Can that also work?

[538] in the opposite direction?

[539] I mean, it can.

[540] I mean, but I'd like to think that any decent judge is just going to look at this and go, you know what, time's served, whether it's a couple of months, you know, this is ridiculous, send her back, ban her from the UK.

[541] I'd be, I mean, I'm not the judge, but I'd be surprised if she got a really harsh sentence.

[542] I mean, I just don't think it's enough to warrant being in prison.

[543] People do a lot worse, you know, and they still manage to...

[544] be outside i just think it's it's quite sad so jj's just jumped on is julia definitely going to prison um jj julia is in prison so that's what we're talking about right now all right so drugs in u .s prisons are easily accessible is that the case in the uk yeah there's so many drugs in prison it's crazy um it's yeah even even on the enhanced wings you know where it's like privilege and stuff they still get them on there whether it be through visits, officers throwing it over the fence.

[545] Yeah, you've got drones now, you've got dead pigeons, the substances inside the dead pigeons.

[546] Tennis balls, people doing the rattles, girls going out on rattles and then bringing them back in.

[547] Yeah, and that leads to another point as well then.

[548] So how invasive are the strip searches for the females?

[549] they're not a thing anymore uh well in the in the in the two prisons i went in um it's actually illegal to strip search a prisoner because when i went in years ago i think it's like 2005 or whatever you have you got strip searched like you undress the top half and then the bottom half and even when i got out of prison they strip searched me when i left so when i went in this time around i was like oh god and anyway obviously they didn't do it and then you start talking to the girls and one girl was actually suing the prison because they strip searched her but with no so they've got to have a lot of information and then the governor has to sign it off to say that I want this person's strip search if there's not enough evidence so it has to be like three different sources not three girls that hang out together of intelligence or she's got a phone or she's got drugs then they're allowed to do that so but you don't get it anymore just going in the prison yeah I mean where I was at in Arizona It's quite invasive.

[550] Fortunately, the finger wave was ruled unconstitutional because it had led to assaults.

[551] I'm going to phrase this very carefully for YouTube.

[552] The finger wave is where they put on a rubber glove and inserted a finger into your lower cavity and wiggled it around to see if you had anything in there that actually existed in Arizona at some point.

[553] When I was arrested, which was 2002, they still had the foreskin search.

[554] And I was like, are you serious?

[555] They were like, yeah, there might be drugs in there.

[556] Pull it back, pull it back.

[557] But the most common search was just you're completely naked, garlic's in your mouth, ears, armpits, raise your man part, turn around, bend over, spread your buttocks wide open and cough.

[558] Wow.

[559] And they're looking right up your backside to see if you're smuggling anything in.

[560] There are people who specialize in smuggling called mules.

[561] They get paid a percentage of what they smuggle in.

[562] There's a thing called a quarter roll, a roll of quarter coins in America.

[563] So smugglers had things wrapped in measurements that were called quarter rolls.

[564] And the mules would pride themselves on how many quarter rolls.

[565] They could insert and wouldn't peek out during these strip searches.

[566] And you'd see them coming back from visit, just walking like, walking all wobbly, walking all wobbly.

[567] But yeah, every visit, strip search, as soon as you rest in strip search, going to the chow hall.

[568] If you're working in the chow hall, you think you might be stealing food, strip search.

[569] Some days I would strip search like up to three times.

[570] Wow, that's insane.

[571] Yeah, yeah, but part of the consequences, you've got to accept your karma carefully.

[572] You've got a choice, have you?

[573] You just have to get over it.

[574] So Mad -Eye Pete, did you witness any kind of corruption between the officers and prisoners?

[575] Yeah, there's a lot of female and male that had relationships with prisoners.

[576] um you hear stuff of people bringing it in um and you kind of you know it's true as well um the things that some of the officers used to say even us we even one officer said to us when we was working outside he's like oh i'll bring you a bottle of wine like he goes um at christmas because we were working outside the front of the prison so they're just yeah it's a lot do prisoners ever get pregnant from staff They have done.

[577] I've not witnessed it myself, but just when I got to send the second prison, it had not long happened.

[578] A guy, an officer had got a female pregnant in there.

[579] Wow.

[580] How does that?

[581] What's the consequences of that?

[582] So I do believe he went to jail, but in the first prison where this woman officer was having a relationship with this prisoner, she was on probation.

[583] And I think what they'd done, because it's...

[584] part private.

[585] They can't have bad publicity.

[586] So they knew about it.

[587] They knew that she was bringing stuff in.

[588] So they failed her probation rather than actually got her done.

[589] Yeah, they do want to hide these things.

[590] They don't want them getting out into the media.

[591] There was quite a XXX video of a female staff member in the men's prison that made international headlines last year, I think it was.

[592] Do you know what the outcome of that case ended up?

[593] I can't remember.

[594] I think she got 10 months or something, didn't she?

[595] If I'm right.

[596] I think it's 10 months, maybe a year.

[597] Obviously, she won't even do that much because she'll come out on tag.

[598] So she'll only do like, I don't know, a third of it.

[599] So Frankie's wondering whether, you know, once people are on her list and phone calls can be established, will they be monitored and recorded?

[600] Yeah, so no one can call her.

[601] She can only call home.

[602] And especially on remands, they all have phones in the cell because obviously sometimes they use it to incriminate.

[603] You know, people are stupid.

[604] They talk about them doing drugs and stuff inside.

[605] And that's how some people have been caught.

[606] They've got out of prison and then got another charge afterwards and come back because they've been caught from the recordings.

[607] The police have asked for the recordings from the phone.

[608] So how easy is it to get a contraband phone in prison?

[609] It's easy, but you've got to pay money sometimes.

[610] Like it really just depends.

[611] Like the top, but this is when I sort of left the time.

[612] So the tiny little ones about that big, they used to go for about 250 pound.

[613] And then if you wanted like a iPhone, you're looking at anything from a thousand upwards.

[614] An iPhone is a thousand upwards.

[615] Yeah.

[616] Some of them are like 1500 is crazy money in there.

[617] What other things are available on the contraband market?

[618] So like tobacco and then like medication, like prescribed medication, obviously class A's, pretty much anything you want.

[619] Spice was a massive one in there.

[620] Cannabis.

[621] Even girls were doing like ecstasy in there.

[622] Honestly, literally, there's a lot.

[623] There's a lot.

[624] in comparison to sort of my day -to -day life it you know it's flooded like there's so much you know you know obviously such and such takes such and such but in there it's like every sort of other person people are asking what kind of jobs you had over the course of your incarceration and what job options would be available to julia So for the first week, she won't work.

[625] She'll just be locked up except for association time.

[626] And then my first job was in the gym, but you didn't actually work.

[627] You just had to go there for like three hours and do whatever if you want to sit there and talk or you want to train.

[628] Then I was a recovery mentor, so I'd help other prisoners that were coming off drugs and, you know, they didn't trust the officers to talk, so they'd talk to us one -to -one and run little groups.

[629] I'd done induction work where you meet and greet the women that come into the prison.

[630] You can take them back to their cell at one and then just support them, which I really enjoyed because, you know, when people come in a nervous wreck and you sort of watch them grow and support them, it's nice because when I went in, I never had that.

[631] a listener which I was trained by the Samaritans so that was a voluntary job so if a prisoner was suicidal at two in the morning me and whoever was on duty that night would get called out and we'd get locked in a cell that sometimes could be scary because if you go to someone that's got a bit of mental health you're locked in a room And if you're done, if the papa's with the keys at the other side of the prison, you could be sat there for 45 minutes waiting.

[632] And if they're like a ticking time bomb, you're just like, get me out.

[633] So what was your absolute favourite job then?

[634] I think the induction, meeting and greeting the women.

[635] Like the recovery mental was good, but that was just different.

[636] It was just...

[637] going and checking on the women, you know.

[638] One girl, she was like 18, she was shaking.

[639] She was so petrified.

[640] But it's just being able to just go, because I got a passport.

[641] I used to walk around with a passport.

[642] So you was allowed to go anywhere in the prison.

[643] I could go on any landing with this.

[644] So you could just go and support them the next day, go and check off on them and help them, you know, get them to do all the things they needed to do, how to add people on and stuff like that.

[645] Yeah, that's good karma.

[646] Lulu, I hope she has emotional and legal support.

[647] She's definitely got legal support, and they named her lawyer in the press today.

[648] A good defence lawyer may get her the answer she needs if the McCanns don't manage to sway things.

[649] All right, so Mr Balding is wondering, what was the worst improvised weapon you witnessed inside?

[650] Do you know what?

[651] I didn't.

[652] I can honestly say I didn't see anybody.

[653] I mean, again, I've heard in other female establishments they'd make like little tools and stuff with razor blades.

[654] But I don't think I ever saw one.

[655] And who were the highest profile prisoners you ever housed with?

[656] Joanne Dennehy.

[657] There was Sharon Carr.

[658] I think she was one of the UK's.

[659] So Joanne Dennehy was a serial.

[660] and alive um Sharon Carr was one of the youngest people to um take someone's life at the time I think um who else was in there the girl that I feel pots but obviously I know her as Lulu um who the she was my neighbor the one that the all the kids died in the fire and they tried to do like an insurance job and then it ended up killing the six kids and then yeah And just somewhat like some girls that have been on the news for unaliving their children or saying their partner had done it and stuff.

[661] You want to know what happens with pregnant women in prison after the baby is born?

[662] So it depends on the circumstances.

[663] So there was one girl that actually gave birth.

[664] I was upstairs.

[665] She was downstairs.

[666] And we just heard her screaming.

[667] And then like at half, it was like half 12.

[668] in the morning um she you just heard this baby start crying and it was one of the most insane things in the world so she actually gave birth in her cell um And the ambulance turned up just after the baby had obviously been born.

[669] They took her to hospital, sadly, because she had no family on the outside and she wasn't entitled to go on to the mother and baby unit.

[670] Her child went straight into care.

[671] She came back to the prison the next day and was told to clean her own blood up off the floor because it was her blood.

[672] But if you're a really respected prisoner, they'll put you on a mother and baby unit.

[673] But not all prisons have that again anyway.

[674] And then if you're lucky to make it to a hospital, you'll have your baby in hospital.

[675] And then if everything's OK, you'll come back to the prison the next day.

[676] And you're allowed to keep them 18 months, I think it is, because they say any time after that, the baby can form like memory and stuff.

[677] And, you know, they have to go out to a family member if you haven't finished your sentence by then.

[678] Wow, that is horrific.

[679] So because I had female co -defendants, I know what was going on the women's side as well.

[680] So one woman was pregnant.

[681] She had a miscarriage while she was sat on the toilet and she collapsed on the floor.

[682] The guards come in, revived with smelling salts, ordered her to fish the dead baby up the toilet and didn't give her any medical treatment whatsoever.

[683] Yeah.

[684] And when they were giving birth, the women were actually chained down.

[685] while they were giving birth in Arizona.

[686] It's really extreme.

[687] I think that's the same in the UK.

[688] I do believe that you are handcuffed to the bed.

[689] Like, but, you know, I mean, not that it makes it okay, but it's not like you're cuffed there to there.

[690] It's like, you know, like the longer chain sort of thing.

[691] But yeah, I can't imagine it's very nice.

[692] Keirce is saying, well done to you, Fran, for turning your life around to be positive.

[693] Oh, here's an interesting one then from Jennifer.

[694] What about faith in prison?

[695] other services you can go to different denominations yeah they do everything they um like literally from being muslim christian um sikh buddhist buddhism is that right they do everything in there so she can she can go to whatever like religion she is she can go to the i was about to say ceremonies there All right.

[696] So Catherine's wondering whether Fran written a book yet.

[697] She might want to.

[698] My ex -husband's uncle was governor of five prisons and he and I did CAB training together.

[699] He helped prisons to be CAB advisors.

[700] They were great.

[701] Yeah.

[702] So educational opportunities for Julia, Fran, what would they be like?

[703] Yeah, I mean, it really depends.

[704] So as soon as you go into prison anyway, you have to do English and maths.

[705] So unless.

[706] unless she passes like level one in each one that will be her job so she'll have to do that until she passes them levels and then i mean she's not going to be in there that long so there's not really a lot in prison if i'm honest well that's a shame isn't it you think they would want to give them skills so that they can reintegrate when they get out Yeah, so it's just like, not even IT, but it's like computer skills.

[707] But in Bronzefield, the certificate they give you is just a name they bought.

[708] It's not even a real thing.

[709] But when you go to like government prison, then it is sitting in guilds qualifications.

[710] There are some courses she can do, but there's not going to be a lot, I don't think, because sometimes you've got to wait to get on the course.

[711] And then if the course is six months and she's been released in four months, they won't put her on there.

[712] And it was Kate Middleton in prison who inspired you.

[713] What the hell was Kate Middleton doing in prison in the first place?

[714] So I'd done a course, it's called the Wrapped Course, and Send is the only female prison that does it.

[715] Now, the Royal Kensington, they fund that.

[716] So without the funding every four years, that course can no longer carry on.

[717] But it's...

[718] I'm not joking it it was one of the best things that I'd ever done um it changed my whole life it's if you've ever heard of like AA they do the 12 steps so in there you do the first five steps so they have proper like therapists and stuff in there and you're assigned to a counsellor and it's really deep deep deep stuff um but so like I said so if you the the councillors used to say if you did this on the outside it'd cost a thousand pound a week so they get the funding for that and then she'd actually been in I think four years prior to that so she just comes in and she speaks to so she speaks to the prisoners that have left but had done the course and that had left prison were doing well and then she like spoke to some of us that had been on the course People are asking if she would have internet access in prison.

[719] Is that?

[720] No. Not unless someone's got a phone which they shouldn't have and they let her use it.

[721] Because she would be prohibited from any kind of devices that would enable her to contact the McCann's, I imagine.

[722] And the thing is, though, right, is when I first went in there, within two days, this girl showed me that she had a phone.

[723] And I didn't even know who Joanne Dennehy was.

[724] She was like, you've got to watch this documentary.

[725] She's in this prison.

[726] I was like, I never even heard of her.

[727] So if someone in there wants to help her, they will approach her straight away with a phone and go, listen, you do what you need to do.

[728] Is there a chance that someone might set her up to get some kind of kudos?

[729] you know some kind of deal prison jailhouse snitches that kind of thing yeah but there's not i mean she's not going to have a mobile phone so there's nothing really to snitch on her i think the only thing that might possibly happen is someone might try and sell a story oh that's true yeah so say someone intended to sell her story how would they approach julia would they just pally up to her and yeah yeah and that's the thing is that's like what you know that's why a lot of people not not everybody but quite a few people will go to her because of how big she is and they'll want to get all the gossip and information did you ever see anyone I mean you mentioned Dennehy who's a high profile serial killer did you ever see anyone kind of like get friendly with someone and then sell their story No, I didn't personally firsthand, but there was a prison officer that actually sold their story.

[730] It got into the paper by the next day of something that happened with her and her partner in there.

[731] So even the officers, that's how cropped they are, anything for a bit of money.

[732] I can imagine.

[733] Ray J wants to know if you witnessed any miscarriages of justice while you were inside?

[734] No, there's a couple of people that say that they were innocent and...

[735] You know, they they and they were still fighting it and appealing it.

[736] But other than that, no. Pam is wondering about people getting bullied in the female prison.

[737] Yeah, it happens.

[738] It does happen.

[739] People do get bullied if you go in quite vulnerable and sort of weak.

[740] But it's I mean, I didn't see it really a lot like.

[741] But I think that happens more on like the rougher wings, if that makes sense.

[742] People will try and come in and they'll be like, oh, let me wear your top.

[743] And then you just got to be like, no, straight away, you know, anything.

[744] And if you put your foot down like that, then it kind of shuts it down.

[745] But, you know, once you start giving people stuff or lending it, then they kind of just manipulate you, which is the same thing as bullying.

[746] Would she be tested in the first few days by people?

[747] No, I think a lot of people will take to her and I think there will be some genuine women in there that will look after her and take her under the wing because they're going to think about their daughter or they think, you know, if that was my child, I'd want to know who they was.

[748] Or, yeah, I think she will be looked after.

[749] So, Lulu, thanks for the super chat.

[750] Can Julie receive email a prisoner?

[751] Well, can she have bail if she has someone to stay in the UK?

[752] I would house her.

[753] That's very nice of you.

[754] On the latter part of that, we think that she's probably classified as a flight risk because she's not a UK citizen.

[755] And Fran, can Julia receive email a prisoner?

[756] She can, but you need to know what prison she's in and you need to know her prison number.

[757] And that's going to take a few days for us to get out there.

[758] There is a Facebook group that has been set up by Julia's friend.

[759] And that link and all of Fran's links are in the description box.

[760] It's called Facebook group to free Julia.

[761] And I'm going to put this in the live chat right now.

[762] It had 43 people on it this morning.

[763] But I imagine there's a hell of a lot more right now.

[764] So there is that in the live chat.

[765] All right, let me just go to the next question.

[766] So we did the bullying one.

[767] Angela.

[768] Is the process the same as in the US where there's an arraignment then bail is discussed?

[769] Is the reason why she was remanded because she didn't plea to her charges?

[770] That can be a couple of different things.

[771] It could be actually that she doesn't have a bail address.

[772] I think that if you haven't got a bail address, you're not getting bail.

[773] So if she hasn't got somewhere to stay, that would be a massive factor.

[774] So when she got remanded, her solicitor will have to put in a bail application so she can go for bail again.

[775] That could take a week, two weeks, and then they can put up a bond here as well.

[776] You know, it just depends on the judge.

[777] So the next one is, are there any exceptional circumstances that would get her bail before April 7th?

[778] I don't know.

[779] I mean, maybe an address might help.

[780] I mean, that's probably going to be the main thing is that the way they're going to look at it is you have to, you know, Sean, if you get arrested, you have to sort of be bail somewhere.

[781] You know, if you're due in court, otherwise you're classed as homeless.

[782] So they will just remind you.

[783] yeah an exceptional circumstance might be if a dna test come back that she's um madeline mccann that would change everything yeah so patty can her lawyer give her date of birth so people can be added to calls or visits or food money etc is it one list is it just a visit list that lets people you able to call people is it separate calls and visits separate yeah so you it really depends on whether you're remand where they have a pod system so when you put someone on for a phone you do it separate to adding them on the visitor list it's kind of like two different things but you're doing the same thing um but she has to do all that again for her to be able to call you or so if she's in a like a government prison once you're added then you have to book the visit online so you go on the government website So PJaxx, thanks to the Super Chat, I think you're referring to the police who contacted Julia during an investigation.

[784] That was episode one.

[785] So the playlist of all of Julia's episodes is in the description box.

[786] I think there's 13.

[787] And it starts out with the phone call with Operation Grange, whereby she's asking them to do the DNA test, and the guy's really snooty, and he's saying we ain't going to do it.

[788] You know, they spent millions, but they couldn't spend 60 quid, and now look what a situation it's created.

[789] So if she got arrested at Bristol at the behest of Leicester, then perhaps Operation Grange, those cops are involved in Julia's arrest.

[790] And Sarah, can Sean accept her at his house of bailing address?

[791] I have offered and put all my information forward in the hope that we can get her free.

[792] while she is pending the judicial process.

[793] So if we have any developments with that, we will keep you guys posted.

[794] All right.

[795] So let's see.

[796] Next one.

[797] We covered this one, Rosa.

[798] Prison and remand.

[799] In America, it's different.

[800] Remand is jail.

[801] And then prison is where you're sentenced.

[802] But in the UK, you can all go to the same institution if you're unsentenced or not.

[803] So I hope Julie will be safe on remand.

[804] Will the others turn against her because of her claims as they wouldn't know about the new DNA link?

[805] No, I don't think so.

[806] I think people will be very curious.

[807] So they'll probably want to talk to her and find out.

[808] And then obviously she's going to say her bit.

[809] And people with phones will Google it.

[810] They'll look into all of this if they want to get clarification.

[811] And they'll know that she's telling the truth.

[812] So, Stephanie, you know, last week Julia put out DNA.

[813] A world expert had looked at it and did connect her to Jerry.

[814] But I'm sure that the police are not going to accept that.

[815] They're going to want to run it themselves and announce it themselves.

[816] I don't think they're just going to allow Julia's claim into court or anything like that.

[817] They're going to have to do it themselves.

[818] All right, let's see.

[819] Being famous put her at risk of being extorted for her money she receives from supporters and friends.

[820] I mean, no, I don't.

[821] The thing is, is that it happens and people do try and bully you for money and stuff like that.

[822] But I don't.

[823] I don't think they will.

[824] And again, it depends where about she goes to prison because I know other areas are a lot rougher and they do make tools and stuff like that.

[825] But the ones that I've been into, I'd be very surprised.

[826] I think you might get a couple of idiots that would be like, oh, yeah, she's lying.

[827] But I think a lot of people will be intrigued.

[828] And then, like I said, you know, you'll have the motherly ones that will look out for and they won't allow it to happen.

[829] All right, guys, we have got about 40 more minutes left with Fran.

[830] If you can get your questions in.

[831] If you have just tuned in, Fran was sent down for a long stretch.

[832] I think it was 11 years, did you say earlier?

[833] Yeah, originally started at 11.

[834] So knows all of the ins and outs of the UK prison system.

[835] And we've covered a lot of ground since we started.

[836] And all of Fran's links are in the description box.

[837] I'll put them in a pinned comment when we finish this.

[838] Fran has her own YouTube channel where she guides people through the different aspects of being incarcerated.

[839] And she collaborates with other prisoners to stay on the straight and narrow.

[840] We all boost each other.

[841] And she's also in my book, Sit Downs with Female Gangsters, that just came out.

[842] She's got an amazing story whereby she met Kate Middleton in prison.

[843] Would you believe it?

[844] All right.

[845] So we've got...

[846] Is there a central database where a person can enter her identity number to track which prison she is in?

[847] I don't believe there's one in the UK.

[848] I mean, I don't know if there is.

[849] Yeah, I don't think it's the same.

[850] I imagine these questions are coming from America where they do have that, but I don't think it is the same.

[851] And then, Fran, for people who want to visit her, Are background checks run on those people?

[852] I don't.

[853] They have to go through security to be added on.

[854] So they will have a look into it.

[855] And I think that's also a safety measure from that, you know, from her to make sure there's no one that's a threat to her that could come into the prison and attack her or do, you know, or me or anybody like that.

[856] But I don't think it's really in depth, like security checks and stuff like that.

[857] Thank you, Jen.

[858] That is a badass backdrop, Fran.

[859] I don't want to hold an office out like it.

[860] Trying to get that, you know, that silly, dingy effect look.

[861] Yeah, the old breeze blocks.

[862] It's coming through the cracks.

[863] Reece says, Fran, this is a great show.

[864] Thank you, Reece.

[865] Thank you.

[866] Patty's wondering if people put money in if more than £50 a week.

[867] um so if she accumulates at more than 50 pounds a week from people supporting her would they give her that money when she gets released yeah yeah so you know if she ends up getting like let's just say she does a year and she gets like four grand over that year of people sent in they will she will get that on release i think i don't even know if they do a check anymore it might just be a bank transfer but she will get that So whatever she saves will be.

[868] So when you get your canteen sheet every week, it'll like build up and up if you don't spend it.

[869] And you can also get a bank statement in prison as well once a month.

[870] So, you know, what's in there.

[871] When you get released, do you know what the time lag is before you get that money?

[872] so i i got cash when i got released but i think i only had a couple of hundred pound on mine so i just got it all in cash i don't know if it was a large um sum i think sometimes if it's a large amount of money i think they might i'm sure i heard somebody saying don't quote me on it that you have to send it out like to a family member right okay let me see um Fran, did you have times when you got bored?

[873] What did you find the hardest part of the day?

[874] I was always bored.

[875] Do you know what?

[876] I was the joker because I had to amuse myself.

[877] I think I acted about four years old in prison.

[878] It's weird.

[879] So when you get locked away, that's probably the most boring bit.

[880] But sometimes it was nice as well.

[881] It's a bit hard because you want to get away from everyone and lock off.

[882] But when you didn't want to be...

[883] away from everyone you know it's really lonely and it's boring if there's nothing on the tv i'm not really a massive book reader but the weekends were the worst they just dragged like every prisoner dreaded the weekends did you start to reflect on your life with all that spare time on your hands yeah yeah you've got no choice You've got no choice.

[884] I hated being on my own, absolutely hated it.

[885] Like I stayed in relationships with people I didn't want to be with because I didn't want to be on my own.

[886] And I learned a lot about myself in prison.

[887] And, you know, it really it really can be a positive thing as well as a negative.

[888] You know, I love being on my own now.

[889] I absolutely love it.

[890] Yeah, people, you know, whatever you're doing in your everyday lives, as soon as you get arrested, all that is completely out of the window.

[891] For me, it was just raw survival.

[892] There was extreme things going on around me. And I was just thinking, how am I going to get through the day?

[893] No longer was I thinking about what was I going to have for dinner?

[894] What am I going to do with my girlfriend this evening?

[895] Are we going to go watch a movie?

[896] What's on Netflix?

[897] Are we going to go on the internet, do some emails?

[898] All that is gone, folks.

[899] You're just controlled, aren't you?

[900] You do yes, sir, no, sir, and that's it.

[901] Yeah, you are just completely controlled.

[902] to the point where even when I was on my deportation flight home, when I was on a normal aircraft, I put my hand up and asked a female member of the cabin crew permission to go to the toilet.

[903] How long did you solve again?

[904] Six years.

[905] Oh, wow.

[906] That's a different level in another country, though.

[907] It's like a boot camp over in comparison to other countries.

[908] Yeah, it's the intensity of it.

[909] The most intense period for me was the unsentenced part, which was my 26 months in Sheriff Joe Pyro's jail.

[910] And if people want to read about that, that's in my book, Hard Time.

[911] My Life Story is a trilogy.

[912] Well, that is the most intense period of the trilogy.

[913] All right, so cat's nails.

[914] Will Julia be safe?

[915] That's the big question.

[916] I truthfully think she will.

[917] but that's my opinion you know obviously i can't say factual but from my experience watching the different kind of people come in and you'll you'll just find like it's mad how you become a little family and people do want to look out for you in there um so i think she will there's another question that ties into that If the fellow inmates by chance were able to watch this stream and hear about offers of money, would that put Julia at risk of bullying?

[918] I don't, potentially, but again, it's a 50 -50 kind of thing.

[919] I think more people are going to sway to being her friend than trying to bully her.

[920] because she's so big in the public that I just don't think anyone's going to want to be seen as doing anything bad toward her.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Advise to say nothing against a solicitor.

[923] All right, so her solicitor's name was announced in the media this morning.

[924] She is lawyered up, and he will be telling her, you know, what approach to take.

[925] We've talked about...

[926] you know you plead the fifth or you in the uk it's called going no comment and there's many an innocent person in prison who've run the mouths to the cops thinking they could trust them and just dug their own graves basically so um i imagine that she's got the best legal representation right now and he's he's telling her you know um what steps to take forward all right so nance what is friends what is your channel friend just join and can't seem to find it I put it in the description box and the link.

[927] Let me put it in the live chat again.

[928] Just tell the public what your channel is called.

[929] So it's UKX Female Prisoner.

[930] And you're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, everything, aren't you?

[931] Yeah, TikTok.

[932] Is there a possibility that Julia will be put in solitary confinement for her own safety?

[933] There is a possibility.

[934] um but i doubt it very much because it's not like you know she i don't she's you know like some people if they've analyzed someone and they're massive in the media there's a threat to their life whereas her i don't think so but it depends on whether she's gone invulnerable or strong they might just put her in for a few days is she at risk of being bullied by the staff i don't think so I've met, you know, there are some arsehole officers, but there are some amazing ones as well.

[935] And again, especially if she goes in quite vulnerable, I think they will make sure she's okay.

[936] All right.

[937] What does your guest know about the aprism mentioned this morning from your guest this morning?

[938] Place looks like a place you hide and abuse the business.

[939] Oh, yeah.

[940] So we looked at all of the UK female.

[941] And one began with an A. Because there's not that many of them.

[942] I'll just run all these by you.

[943] So there's Bronzefield.

[944] Did you say you spent time there, Fran?

[945] Yeah, I was at about 16 months, I think, in that one.

[946] And that one's in Surrey, is it?

[947] Yeah, that's in Ashford.

[948] And then Send is in Surrey.

[949] So these prisons then.

[950] Are they different security levels?

[951] Or in the female prisons, are all the security levels mixed together?

[952] Yeah, so the Bronzefields are Cat A, which is where they hold really high -profile prisoners.

[953] Thank you.

[954] So Cat A is equivalent to Supermax, is it, in America?

[955] Yeah.

[956] And you spent time in Cat A?

[957] Yeah.

[958] And is that the most intense?

[959] It's the most chaotic.

[960] um it's a lot of women and that's when you probably see more of like the sort of rude girls and all different it's just a whole different amount of like people in there um from different backgrounds when you go into like when i went to send because it was only half the amount of women it just seemed more chilled and more calmer thank you sharon i love speaking at send i remember speaking to the female population and um They'd read my book Party Time, so they had all kinds of questions about my exes.

[961] I just fell into this trap.

[962] They were laughing so much.

[963] It was hilarious.

[964] Yeah, because I heard about you before I got out, because your book got passed around a lot.

[965] There was quite a few copies.

[966] I was like, if you want to read, read this.

[967] Do they bail prisoners with ankle bracelets?

[968] yeah so that's like tag so um you know she could get put on a tag she could have because they do ones where you can't go in certain areas so it'll ping off so she could you know you could get that as well so um coogan can contact in your parents are going to the home because of the stalking though can't julie's legal team can't claim for child abandonment and demand the dna test so as far as we are aware a dna has been took And hopefully the police are going to have the common sense this time just to get the damn test done so we can resolve this whole situation.

[969] And if it did come out that she is Maddie, then that would just change absolutely everything.

[970] So, yeah, you know, it wouldn't be stalking with it.

[971] It would be something completely different.

[972] Let's see.

[973] Next one.

[974] The possibility that they will move Julia from prison to prison.

[975] uh yeah they can do if um so if she gets sentenced so once you when you're in a remand prison when you get sentenced they normally ship you out quite quick because they need to keep the spaces in the remand prison obviously for the girls coming in from court so there is a big chance that she'll get moved once she's sentenced what does a prison cell look like um there's actually pictures of it on my youtube so the two so bronzefield was horrible it was like a tiny you know your tiny little cell you've got a toilet so if the officer opens the flap and the toilet's there like he could pretty much see you on the toilet there's no covering of it anything like that but in sense it was like i had my own room with a window that opened a radiator and i had my own like bathroom with a door that's shut it's better than a hostel wow all we had was like three bunks enough space on the floor to do push -ups and then like a combination sink toilet with a button and water would dribble out we weren't allowed to have any cups um yeah that was it but uh we were allowed to get like a little battery operated radio and a headset thing wire and um People were just listening to music mostly on the little headsets going around.

[976] We'd have TV, DVD player, PlayStation.

[977] I had my own hair straighteners, hair dryer, hair clippers.

[978] That's insane.

[979] Like I said, I've got pictures of it.

[980] You can literally see it in my cell.

[981] Where is John Wedge?

[982] Hopefully John Wedge is coming on Sunday evening with Ron.

[983] because he's not weighed in on this yet.

[984] We've been contacting him, but he's been busy.

[985] And it was John Wedge who brought Julia to this channel, who was the London Met Cop, Scotland Yard detective.

[986] So does HMP...

[987] Oh, hang on, I'm going the wrong way.

[988] That was my cell.

[989] What?

[990] And then I'll show you.

[991] That was my bathroom.

[992] your cell looks better than my bedroom it's crazy honestly it's crazy and this is what the wings look like this was when it was snowing it looked like butlins can you see that i keep going yeah it does so that was the mirror of my cell so that was out my window so that that was the privilege wings and it looked they're like identical and the officer's office was over there so we they couldn't lock our door so we just sit up at night someone watch out the window we're just messing around on time That's insane.

[993] So the other prisons there, I only did the first one.

[994] HMP East Sutton in Kent.

[995] Did you ever end up there?

[996] No, I didn't go to that one.

[997] I visited my friend in there.

[998] That's the open one in Kent.

[999] So you've got to be down as an open prisoner to be able to go there, to be able to do your roles and stuff.

[1000] Because you could just walk out.

[1001] It's like in the middle of a farm.

[1002] Can you explain to the American viewers what an open prison means in the UK?

[1003] Yeah, so nobody that is a foreign national that hasn't got the right to be in the UK will ever be allowed there because it's basically like a big building in the middle of like a farm in the country.

[1004] And if you want to walk out and never go back, you can walk out and never go back.

[1005] But you have to be a really good prisoner and you get that entitlement like so many months before your release.

[1006] So you're allowed to go out to work and then you go back to the prison at night time.

[1007] So for people asking, you know, we've already covered Fran's charges and stuff, and she got an 11 -year stretch on a substances case.

[1008] And what was the next prison I was talking about?

[1009] All right, so HMP Eastwood Park.

[1010] Yeah, that's apparently really rough.

[1011] Is it?

[1012] Yeah, that's a Ramon prison.

[1013] So what have you heard about that one?

[1014] That they have tools and stuff in there.

[1015] They make stuff and there's a lot of fights and, yeah, it's supposed to be really rough.

[1016] A lot of shanks.

[1017] Yeah.

[1018] HMP Fosten Hall in Derbyshire?

[1019] Yeah, that's got...

[1020] No, that's Drake Hall, actually.

[1021] I don't think that's got a really bad rep, but...

[1022] Okay, next one.

[1023] HMP Lowe Newton in Durham?

[1024] Yeah, that's where Joanne Dennehy went.

[1025] So that's got to be a Cat A prison.

[1026] So I don't know what that's like, though.

[1027] So that's the highest security level.

[1028] HMP Ascom Grange.

[1029] Yeah, I've heard of that, but I've not heard anybody that's been there that I've spoke to on my channel or anything.

[1030] HMP Bullwood Hall.

[1031] I've not heard of that one.

[1032] HMP Downview.

[1033] Yeah, I've done I've done about four days there years ago.

[1034] But that's quite that one they say is a bit more gang gang.

[1035] So you've got more sort of younger people that want to fight.

[1036] I think that's a bit more rougher in comparison to send.

[1037] Now, someone's asking, you know, because we've seen the growth of the Muslim prison population in the UK in the men's side.

[1038] Has that happened in the female side as well?

[1039] Is it different?

[1040] Yeah, you'll find you'll find quite a few girls actually do convert, but it's not they don't separate.

[1041] So, you know, if me and my three mates are Christian and I've got like there's four girls that live opposite us that are all Muslim, we could still all hang out together.

[1042] It's not isolated like that in the female prison, not in the two that I was in.

[1043] Tanya's wondering whether the justice system will send her somewhere hard out of spite?

[1044] I don't think so.

[1045] And I don't think it really works like that.

[1046] So first of all, she'll just go to the closest prison that has got a bed available.

[1047] And then after that, normally, I mean, when I was in...

[1048] uh bronzefield i only had a choice of going to send or down view so i don't know if the other prisons are the same you can only pick two quite local because obviously it's a mission for them to ship someone miles away um so i doubt that but you never know earlier on you mentioned that female inmate the kids had died in the boning of the property for insurance purposes um you know how was she treated and was she separated or no so she was on um the privilege wing because she like i said she was my neighbor i didn't even know at first and do you know what she just kept herself to herself so a lot of people that have done really sick stuff to kids and stuff their attitude is disgusting they walk around like they they think they're so bad it's brazen it's mad it's really shocking how they behave but she was like she just literally had one or two friends and She didn't give like attitude and stuff from my experience.

[1049] She wasn't rude to people.

[1050] She just kept herself to herself.

[1051] And I never heard of anybody, her talking about her crime to anybody.

[1052] Did you ever witness anyone getting smashed?

[1053] I hear about it for crimes against kids.

[1054] A couple of times.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] I didn't witness it when it comes to the kids, but there was one girl in send.

[1057] She would always go for the ones that, yeah, done stuff to kids.

[1058] And it was really funny because I think one.

[1059] come in and she was rude to the officer because i've watched it i work in receptions i've worked in there so you know as soon as you give attitude to the reception staff you're screwed like game over you're waiting for your stuff they'll make your life hell and what they've done was they purposely put her in next door to the girl no full well this girl will beat up anyone that does anything with kids and then after she got an idea they moved her down to the protection wing so Wow.

[1060] There's two more here.

[1061] There's HMP Drake Hall and Durham.

[1062] Yeah, so Drake Hall, I've heard, is quite good.

[1063] All right, folks, we've got 20 minutes left with Fran.

[1064] Please get your final questions in.

[1065] If you've just logged on, you know, Fran's done a lengthy stretch in the UK, knows all the ins and outs of the system.

[1066] She still has people that she knows in there.

[1067] let's see oh yeah lucy let me because all this stuff's coming out now saying that she might have been set oh what what do you what do you make of that yeah i think that's insane and i and to be honest like i haven't dug deep in it but from what i've seen and heard i don't know why she's still in prison um from what they're saying you know they're experts so and i think this is going to be a big flip for her now i think she's not done herself any favors being friends with that woman but what people don't understand is when you go in for that crime nobody wants to be your friend right so one going into prison is terrifying okay you you've got to face that two let's let's pretend she's she's not done this right so she knows she hasn't done it But nobody wants to talk to her.

[1068] She's going to get her head caved in.

[1069] And the only option you've got is to do this on your own or make friends.

[1070] And the only people that are going to be your friends that have done stuff to kids.

[1071] So that's the only problem she's got.

[1072] But I think this is going to be a flip now.

[1073] I think a lot of people are going to want to talk to her.

[1074] I think a lot of people are going to be shell shocked, I think.

[1075] And this could flip it where other prisoners will actually want to speak to her now.

[1076] yeah can you imagine going through that kind of a treatment people think you've killed babies yeah that that's insane and then it all suddenly reverses but but the thing is is the mental torture that she's been through even if let's say she's innocent and she walks tomorrow that's never going to end for her because there's going to be people that are still not going to believe it and everyone knows her face.

[1077] So there's a lot of torture for that, you know, for her if she's innocent, like, and it's not just going to be ended when she comes out, I don't think.

[1078] Do we know which prison Letby's in?

[1079] The last I know she was in Bronzefield because of her court hearings and stuff.

[1080] So that's where she will always go back to, to go to court.

[1081] People are asking if you've heard anything about what Pentonville and Peterborough are like.

[1082] Oh, yeah.

[1083] Peterborough is like the mirror of Bronzefield.

[1084] I think Peterborough is a little bit rough, but I think it's not any worse than Bronzefield.

[1085] But they call them sister jails.

[1086] We are in a new era of government, Fran.

[1087] Do you see a new, more fascist regime taking control today?

[1088] Not really.

[1089] I mean, I just think it's all a mess, if I'm honest.

[1090] We've got Keir Starmer, and he's one of the most hated prime ministers.

[1091] I mean, yeah, there's literally, like, no good from him.

[1092] You know, and everyone's getting out of 40%, but then people are just going back in all their re -offending.

[1093] Yeah, I don't know.

[1094] I just...

[1095] It goes over my head, if I'm honest.

[1096] Fran, did you ever have to make a caution bluter?

[1097] What's a caution bluter?

[1098] Do I want to know?

[1099] I don't.

[1100] I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

[1101] I think the person's asking whether you ever had to make a weapon, and perhaps that's not something that you want to reveal anyway.

[1102] Yeah, but no. But honestly, I've never even seen one in there.

[1103] Can you have your sentence removed from your history if you've served your time, or will it remain on your record forever?

[1104] Yeah, no, it remains on your record forever.

[1105] Oh, that's interesting.

[1106] In some states in America, you can get it sealed or removed.

[1107] Was Dennehy ever in the same prison as you?

[1108] Yeah, I spent my first Christmas dinner sitting pretty much opposite her in prison.

[1109] What did you get for Christmas?

[1110] Well, food -wise.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] big roast there you get um chicken uh roast potatoes like parsnips you get a proper a proper meal are people depressed on christmas though because they're away from the loved ones and it's it's like really what like i like covid was one of the best christmases i've ever had and it was such a tough time but everyone just lifted everybody and i've had some of the best christmases in prison because there was no no one was like drunk there was no alcohol but we'd have parties like we'd you know you cook up loads of food you know we'd have it all down the landing you know we're not supposed to be out of ourselves but we could have the doors open because they couldn't lock us in and we would just have food down the whole land and we all chipped in and done a big cook up You're selling it.

[1113] You're selling it.

[1114] No, there was really bad times.

[1115] Don't get me wrong.

[1116] Really, really bad times.

[1117] I'm not trying to glamorize it, but I'm just speaking facts.

[1118] Fran, did you meet women inside who knew you were innocent?

[1119] You weren't innocent, weren't you?

[1120] I was not innocent.

[1121] No, God's guilty as charged.

[1122] I deserve it.

[1123] I deserved more probably than what I served.

[1124] There's a reason Fran's in this book, folks.

[1125] Would you both agree that the whole British justice system is a full review?

[1126] And what would you change first?

[1127] You go first.

[1128] Yeah, I mean, with the prison side of it, I mean, they're sending too many people away for silly charges, for smaller offences.

[1129] They lose their homes.

[1130] They lose their kids.

[1131] And then that's why they re -offend.

[1132] Like, they literally re -offend.

[1133] The amount of women that I see go in and they're...

[1134] They've got like a four month sentence, but no one can have their kids.

[1135] So they've gone into care.

[1136] They lose their house and then they'll just come back.

[1137] And they've probably never even committed a crime before that.

[1138] So, you know, in response to that question, then it's like prison policy question.

[1139] Living with people for six years who are the deep end of addiction, 90 percent injecting.

[1140] It was really sad when they started opening up to me and telling me their life stories, because I've been raised that.

[1141] Heroin users lock them up, throw away the key.

[1142] They live under bridges.

[1143] They're snatching granny's purses.

[1144] You know, they were the scum of society.

[1145] But in actuality, when I listen to the stories, they were victims of predators, thrown away as kids, raised on the streets, didn't have the chances in lives that most of us have.

[1146] And the government never helped them or gave them the tools to deal with the trauma.

[1147] So they went to the hardest core drugs.

[1148] and were criminalized because they were self -medicating for all this childhood trauma, which I believe is the primary root cause of crime.

[1149] So the whole justice system is upside down.

[1150] It was full of low -level drug users because every person they snatched in America, weed possession was huge back then, $60 ,000 a year of taxpayers' money to the private prison.

[1151] And it was the biggest house of the mentally ill. A third of them couldn't even read all right.

[1152] And it made me feel doubly guilty for committing my crime.

[1153] So when I got out, We started this channel back in 2007.

[1154] And as it evolved over time, our mission statement became to end this war on drugs that the US has spent trillions on, which has achieved nothing, and take all those resources and go after the damn predators.

[1155] Because it seems to me that the predators who are traumatizing these kids in the first place, root cause of crime, get slaps on the wrists.

[1156] Catholic bishops just get moved around.

[1157] Fancy lawyers, politicians.

[1158] doing heinous things to kids.

[1159] It's like the justice system does not take these crimes.

[1160] What is more evil than harming a child?

[1161] And the justice system does not take these crimes seriously.

[1162] But the things it does take seriously, it's like the justice system is weaponised for revenue generation.

[1163] And it's absolutely sickening.

[1164] So in response to that question, the whole system is upside down.

[1165] elon needs to come in and give it a um set doge on it and turn it around well i totally agree with you on that one sean like just to jump in quick like the stories i heard i was heartbreaking like on the course that i said about um the five steps there had one woman that was essayed by her dad from the age of three years old and she was an alcoholic and now And then there was another woman that was essayed by two of her brothers at the same time.

[1166] And she was a heroin addict.

[1167] And yet someone can do that to a kid.

[1168] They'll get less than what I done.

[1169] Like, I deserve my sentence.

[1170] You know, that's not a problem.

[1171] But they don't understand also the ripple effect.

[1172] That's her whole life gone.

[1173] Her whole life.

[1174] Like, how do you even live with that?

[1175] How do you, do you know what I mean?

[1176] I totally agree with you.

[1177] It's messed up.

[1178] Talking about ripple effects, you know, one of the things I say to the young people I do the school talks is my mum had a nervous breakdown.

[1179] My sister had counselling over, you know, the trauma I caused them with my foreign incarceration.

[1180] And Ronnie's asking you, Fran, how was your relationships with your family because of your incarceration?

[1181] So my relationship with my mum.

[1182] was absolutely amazing when I got out only because of the therapy that I got in prison so that was a huge thing um you know I always say prison was the best thing that happened to me with my dad he's my best friend but he only come to visit me about three times because he would go home and not speak for days it messed him up so bad and he didn't understand that I was all right like he just looks at me as his little girl so we're still good but even now he's like he just doesn't believe me I said did you believe me now do you trust me that I've changed he said I'll leave you when i'm dead but we're still close you know did you see prisoners disowned by their family members because of the crime yeah yeah it did happen even my brother i think me and my brother got a much better relationship um since prison as well it's actually i actually brought me closer it's it's mad it does i was 5 000 miles away from my family and you know the incarceration as horrible as it was it it did unite us all and i was blessed to have such good family support.

[1183] You know, I was facing 200 years at one point.

[1184] My parents remortgaged her house.

[1185] And without that, I'd probably still be in prison right now.

[1186] So, you know, God bless them.

[1187] I'm so grateful.

[1188] Let's see.

[1189] We've got, if she has no prior conviction, how can she be arrested at a nondescript airport upon arrival?

[1190] If you've got no prior conviction, It doesn't matter if you've committed a crime in the eyes of the law.

[1191] They're coming for you, folks.

[1192] You can't say you can't have me because I've got no prior conviction.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] No, they send you to prison for the baddest things.

[1195] Yeah, it can happen to anyone.

[1196] So, Fiona, Fran, you said you had a PlayStation.

[1197] How can Julia get things like this?

[1198] Can she buy items like this, her dryers, books, music devices?

[1199] So you can send her books in and CDs.

[1200] Some of them have to the CDs have to be sealed.

[1201] You would have to check with the prison.

[1202] Some of them have different rules, but she has to be enhanced.

[1203] So you have to have been in the prison for 12 weeks and got two good IEPs.

[1204] And then you sit aboard and they'll say, oh, yeah, we're going to give you an enhancement, which means you're allowed more money drop in.

[1205] um when you're sentenced and you can have these other things some prisons you can have them sent in um from anybody outside some prisons they make you save and buy it through their catalog they won't allow it to be sent in all right we're down to the last nine minutes folks with fran get your final questions in about female prison living conditions in the context of what julie is going through so uri So the prisons have magazines which you can purchase from.

[1206] However, these are pre -checked by the prison and are only from authorized suppliers.

[1207] Are magazines popular in prison?

[1208] Yeah, so you can have the magazine and the newspaper.

[1209] So what they do is...

[1210] My mum would ring the newsagents that Bronzefield use across the road.

[1211] They would prepay for however many weeks of the Sun newspaper, either every day or, you know, once a week.

[1212] And then they'd write your surname and the prison number on.

[1213] And then that shop would deliver the magazine or the paper to the prison.

[1214] Fran, what is the road for chores, if any, like kitchen duty?

[1215] so it just depends if you've got a job so you you clean your own room that's down to you they have like wing cleaners kitchen staff so if you did do it works between sort of like eight sorry nine and like quarter to twelve and then you go to work for about three hours in the afternoon again Are people competing for the kitchen job so they can sneak food out?

[1216] Some of them do, yeah.

[1217] Some of them really love it, but I wasn't interested in that.

[1218] I mean, I was always all right.

[1219] I always got fed. If you get on with people, you're laughing because they look after you.

[1220] So, Tough Gemini, was this an orchestrated Interpol arrest?

[1221] No, it was Leicester Police because the McCanns live in that jurisdiction.

[1222] And we have got, will we do a live re Lucy Letby from PJAC?

[1223] I can get top people involved in the fight for unsafe conviction to be quashed.

[1224] Yeah, I will be fascinated to do that because John Wedge, ex -Scotland Yard Detective, has been on with Ron talking about the Letby development.

[1225] So, yeah, that is definitely...

[1226] a good area for us to cover and perhaps Frank could come back and we could have a couple of panelists discussing that.

[1227] So Frankie, Fran, does all mail get censored?

[1228] So they're supposed to read all the mail that comes through.

[1229] And I think it more depends on like the prisoner as well.

[1230] So some of it might get missed or drug tested and stuff like that.

[1231] But some of it might get missed.

[1232] But if it's like Joanne Dennehy, if you're high profile, they will go through all your mail.

[1233] They will read it properly.

[1234] And certain stuff you won't receive if it's like death threats or, you know, just really, really inappropriate stuff.

[1235] Yeah, letters are absolutely golden, Denise.

[1236] Like I said earlier, it's mail call time and the officers going from cell to cell and the guys, if he goes past the cell, you see the heartbreak in their faces.

[1237] Yeah, it is so nice to hear from home.

[1238] Things that you take for granted in the free world, the value of them is multiplied many fold in prison.

[1239] Just being able to have a hug with your mum at the end of a visit.

[1240] Receiving a letter.

[1241] Getting a good night's sleep.

[1242] Getting clean and decent food.

[1243] All these things we take for granted.

[1244] We do not value until we lose them.

[1245] And when you lose them...

[1246] I mean, oh, my God, I appreciate sleep, food.

[1247] Jen, like, criticizes me because every time I'm eating, I'm like, mmm.

[1248] You don't know, though.

[1249] To this day.

[1250] Did you carry forward any prison habits into the real world with your friend after you were released?

[1251] no do you know what i i didn't have it but like i always promised myself i wasn't going to take things for granted and stuff and i think i fell back into my out of prison world so quickly rather than taking stuff from prison if that makes sense yeah um i still wear a beanie pulled down over my ears and the earplugs sometimes i mean jenny's a snorer though And I used to have these tower fans.

[1252] And even when we went on the road, I used to take these tower fans with me because I put them next to the bed.

[1253] Because in Arizona, the fan noise, it would vibrate.

[1254] You know all the trash talking people are doing all the time in prison.

[1255] And the fan noise would filter that out.

[1256] And then Jen pointed out to me when I was on the road with all these fans, all these wires, pulling them out of my car and stuff.

[1257] Didn't have enough room in the cabin.

[1258] She said, Sean.

[1259] you can just go on YouTube and play fan noise.

[1260] So that's revolutionized my life.

[1261] There's all kinds of white noise.

[1262] Black bean noise is the one I'm presently listening to for some reason.

[1263] Switch it out.

[1264] Yeah, yeah.

[1265] All right, we're getting into the final minutes then with Fran.

[1266] Yeah, Sean, would you be interested in Joy Farashi to come on?

[1267] I'm not sure who that is, but...

[1268] Email me the deets and we will assess that in terms of Lucy Letby.

[1269] SP, how can they go straight to arrest without any warning?

[1270] I mean, there were no threats of violence or even first doing a restraining or injunction.

[1271] So this is, I think this person is adding to the, you know, it doesn't matter if there's no threats of violence under the UK definition of stalking and harassment.

[1272] Which I'll read that.

[1273] It seems that many people have come on and we have gone over it in previous streams, but I'll read that at the end of this before I sign off.

[1274] What did Joanne Dennehy do?

[1275] Oh my God, Ronnie.

[1276] You're not familiar.

[1277] Good grief.

[1278] I think you should put it into YouTube and watch the documentary.

[1279] She's the third woman in the country to be refused parole.

[1280] She will never get out of prison.

[1281] She went on a on a killing spree.

[1282] And weren't there some guys?

[1283] Wasn't there a giant who helped?

[1284] Yes, I think there was seven victims.

[1285] I think three or four didn't make it.

[1286] There was one guy in a ditch in a dress.

[1287] I'll let you out on all fours.

[1288] And some very large knives used.

[1289] Sarah, do you have male and female prison officers?

[1290] Oh, yeah, that's good.

[1291] Like, what is the...

[1292] proportion of male and female prison officers in a female it has to be 60 female and 40 male so it could be like 70 female but it can't be any less than 60 female that's what it was when i was inside and do you find that the male officers or the female officers treat the prisoners better so i've got a bit of mix from both i think the women are a lot more bitchy but with the guys you've either really got they're really genuine caring guys or you've just got some ones that it's like it's like a power trip you know like they're controlled at home probably by their wives they have to come and take out on us during the day it's kind of like that kind of thing but Did you find the ones that are helpful over time, they harden because people are trying to hustle them and try things on all the time?

[1293] The new ones, the new ones that come in, because they try and be your friend.

[1294] And I used to warn some of them, I used to say, listen, you need to stay consistent.

[1295] Because what had happened, then six months later, they were turned into arseholes because they found their feet.

[1296] Because they found their feet, they would get all cocky and they'd change on you.

[1297] And that's, you know, as a prisoner, you struggle with that.

[1298] Do you educate people about what it's like in prison?

[1299] Like Sean does, Fran does a channel and probably in other areas as well.

[1300] Yeah.

[1301] So there's videos where I prepare women that are facing prison, what they need to know, you know, the do's, the don'ts.

[1302] I have people that, you know, come on and we educate people that prison, that all prisoners are scum and that people can change.

[1303] And sometimes people change after the first.

[1304] I had a woman that it took 27 times of being in prison before.

[1305] She managed to change.

[1306] But there's hope for everyone.

[1307] We have a Facebook page as well to support women as well.

[1308] So Matt is asking, what happens if another prisoner comes on to you?

[1309] Well, if you like them, you get it on.

[1310] And if you don't, you kindly say.

[1311] No, I'm good, thank you.

[1312] Don't kiss them and think that they'll leave you alone because from first -hand experience, if you kiss them, to get them to leave you alone, they think you're married.

[1313] So, yeah.

[1314] So, being gay is a result, you know.

[1315] So, I think we covered some of this in the podcast we did with Fran several years ago.

[1316] I'll put the link in the live chat again.

[1317] Watch our podcast with Fran.

[1318] Now, with my co -defendants, female co -defendants in America, I was told that there were families formed and like the youngsters coming in were like the kids.

[1319] And then the more lipstick woman would be the mum, etc. Do you have anything like that in the UK?

[1320] You'll have like the studs.

[1321] So you'll have like the really boyish and the ones that actually look like men.

[1322] And then you'll have like the really femme girls.

[1323] And then, yeah, you have like, if I call him like daddy and stuff like that, it's a bit, yeah, a bit weird.

[1324] Mumsy and dadsy.

[1325] Ron is saying none of his questions were asked.

[1326] Ron, just keep putting them in because we're down to our last few minutes right now.

[1327] And if I see it, I mean, the chat's going so fast.

[1328] You know, I do apologise if I've not got through all the questions, but we've done the best we can under the circumstances.

[1329] And it looks like people have really enjoyed Fran being here.

[1330] um likelihood of her being deported yeah if she gets found guilty is it automatic deportation after the sentence so it depends i mean i know i'm going from a girl that was actually in a relationship she was albanian and she got four years um had to serve four years and then nine months before her sentence was ending she got deportated but if she gets a small so i think They take a percentage off the sentence and you get to get out of prison early, but you have to go back to your country.

[1331] So it really depends on how long she gets, because it might just be a case of just deport her straight back.

[1332] Surely bail should be granted unless you are a dangerous criminal.

[1333] Well, that's not always the case, is it?

[1334] she's got to have a bail address to begin with.

[1335] The fact that she's coming to the country and her friend's been arrested as well, she would have been able to give that as a bail address.

[1336] So that will be the biggest factor if they would even give it.

[1337] I think because it's such a big case, that's probably why they've done it as well.

[1338] I was classified as a non -violent drug offender and my bail was $750 ,000 cash only.

[1339] And a year later, we asked for a reduction.

[1340] And they doubled it to $1 .5 million.

[1341] Over your cheek.

[1342] Absolutely, yeah.

[1343] And the main thing the prosecutor kept saying was that because I wasn't a US citizen, I was a flight risk, which is what they're going to be saying about Julia.

[1344] They're going to be saying she's Polish, she's a flight risk.

[1345] So, yeah.

[1346] All right, so I'm going to let Fran go, and I'll stay on for a couple of extra minutes just to go over the...

[1347] the definition of stalking and harassment, because there seems to be some confusion with people still in the chat and how that applies.

[1348] But is there anything you'd like to say in conclusion to the viewers, Fran?

[1349] No, thank you all for tuning in and thank you for the kind comments and stuff.

[1350] Thank you, Sean, for having me on.

[1351] I appreciate it.

[1352] Thank you.

[1353] Oh, well, thanks for coming on.

[1354] I urge people, all of Fran's social links are in the description box.

[1355] The YouTube channel, there's tons of content down there.

[1356] Please go down and subscribe.

[1357] And also, if you want to watch the podcast we did with Fran years ago, that's down there as well.

[1358] And we will wait for Fran to get her book out, hopefully soon.

[1359] All right.

[1360] Cheers, my friend.

[1361] Thank you.

[1362] Take care.

[1363] Thank you.

[1364] Bye.

[1365] Bye -bye.

[1366] All right.

[1367] So Ron's show is about to start, folks.

[1368] And he's going to have Big Homie.

[1369] And he's going to have Beverly.

[1370] And it's going to be a hard -hitting, surviving life podcast.

[1371] Talking about the work that Big Homie has been doing.

[1372] So, you know, well worth going over to that one when this one finishes.

[1373] I'll just, I'll put the link in the description as well.

[1374] Police UK, what is stalking and harassment?

[1375] So harassment, bullying at school in the workplace, cyber stalking using the internet, anti -social behavior, sending abusive text messages, sending unwanted gifts.

[1376] unwanted phone calls letters emails or visits so there was a call played with jerry whereby jerry hung up and he didn't want to to be on the phone with us obviously that was an unwanted phone call and the police are alleging that there was whatsapp messages instagram messages etc and then stalking is like harassment but more aggressive stalk has an obsession with the person they're targeting It could be an ex -partner or it might be a stranger.

[1377] It doesn't matter whether you know them or don't know them.

[1378] It doesn't mean it's your fault.

[1379] It's still stalking.

[1380] It's an offense.

[1381] And under UK law, it's regularly following someone, repeatedly going uninvited to their home, checking someone's internet use, email or electronic communication, hanging around somewhere they know the person often visits, interfering with their property, watching or spying on someone, identity theft, signing up to services.

[1382] buying things in someone's name.

[1383] And then there's the online stalking and harassment classification, social network sites, chat rooms, gaming sites, forums, used, for example, to get personal info, to communicate, to damage your reputation, to spam and send viruses, to trick over internet users into harassing or threatening, identity theft, threats to share private info, photographs, copies of messages.

[1384] So there it all is, folks.

[1385] This stream is going to go over to Ron's stream.

[1386] Let me just absolutely double check that he has started.

[1387] It's called Taking Down Evil Sights.

[1388] Yeah, he's got Beverly.

[1389] He's got Big Homie.

[1390] And we are going to end this one shortly and take you over to Ron's.

[1391] It will transfer you over to Ron's.

[1392] hit the channel icon and it will transfer you over but most importantly let's all just think about julia send positive loving vibrations her way as you know fran is connected everything's being done behind the scenes and that we can possibly do we've offered our homes to house julia And I can only imagine the stress and trauma she's going through right now.

[1393] So Ron is one of my co -hosts.

[1394] He's got the charismatic Scottish accent.

[1395] And his show with Big Homie is going now.

[1396] Yeah.

[1397] So get ready to send us some letters and some emails, folks.

[1398] Like Fran said, they are absolute gold in prison.

[1399] Thanks for tuning in.

[1400] Much love wherever you are in the world.

[1401] Take care.