Chris Hardwick

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] I'm Dax Shepherd, and this is Armchair Expert.

[2] I'm so delighted to have you join us today because we're talking with someone who was pretty instrumental in me having a desire to have a podcast.

[3] I think I did his show the first time five or six years ago, and I've done it two or three times.

[4] You know him as the nerdist.

[5] Chris Hardwick joins us today.

[6] He has a new podcast, or maybe it's the same as his old podcast, but it's now called Idiot.

[7] but I believe Idiot is spelled ID10T.

[8] So I don't know if it's Idiot or ID10T.

[9] This is clearly a test that I'm failing.

[10] But despite all that, he was a lovely guest.

[11] He also, guys, backstory, he was one of our first interviews, and he stayed afterwards and talked with Monaco and I at great length and gave us a ton of tips that we then employed, and I think it made the podcast a lot better.

[12] So if you find that I'm a little bit interruptee or something, just remember I hadn't gotten these tips yet, but I love you.

[13] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[14] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[15] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[16] Chris Hardwick.

[17] Jack Shepard.

[18] Welcome to my podcast.

[19] Thank you.

[20] for bringing me into your podcast loft.

[21] Full disclosure, we're doing some remodeling of the main house from which we do the podcast and all the power was cut to the main house so they could work on it.

[22] And I was assured there would be power run to the guest house where we do this podcast.

[23] Have you ever done a house before though?

[24] Have you ever rewriting a house?

[25] Not of this scale and size.

[26] Well, just so you know, most of the things that you were told are not true.

[27] Or you'll show up one day and it's like, why did they tile that wall?

[28] It's not like talking to a director of a movie they want you to do for the first time because they're like oh absolutely yeah you can you can have a mohawk in this movie whatever you want yeah you know they just want you on board yeah likewise yeah when you're talking to an architect or a contractor they're like oh you'll be in by christmas 17 no problem and that's not uh not the case at all yeah so suffice to say uh when you arrived i was in quite a state of disarray i had gone and got my generator out of my garage at home and i'm running uh extension cords up to here and i'm deeply embarrassed and humiliated that you had to see me not at We have one light, which because it's, you know, winter hours, it's going to be dark when we're recording this.

[29] It's like, yeah, yeah, it's 4 .28 p .m. so like within minutes, it'll be pitch back outside.

[30] I won't be able to see you.

[31] And I'm hoping that that adds to your confidence in sharing.

[32] I'm hoping that you, wait a minute.

[33] Can I just pitch an idea to you?

[34] Yeah, yeah.

[35] You should do all future podcasts where it's pitch black to see if people like reveal anything more intimate about them.

[36] Yeah.

[37] They're just in the dark.

[38] High degree of anonymity.

[39] In the dark with Dax Sheperper.

[40] Dark cast.

[41] Dark cast.

[42] I bet there's already a dark cast.

[43] There are, oh, yes, that talks about Renaissance weapons.

[44] Yeah, okay, we were on the same.

[45] We were in the same bit neighborhood.

[46] Yeah, yeah.

[47] They would eat turkey legs for sure.

[48] Giant turkey legs, drink mead, know how to throw an axe at a stump.

[49] So the first thing I want to talk to you about is you have a very, very successful podcast.

[50] And I have been a guest on it a few times now.

[51] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[52] And I love it.

[53] I would imagine one of the liabilities of doing a podcast is that a lot of the people you interview then have podcasts.

[54] Is that the main liability?

[55] This must be so...

[56] So they're like, well, I did yours.

[57] Exactly.

[58] Which is bullshit because you don't go on like lettermen and then go, Dave, you owe me. It's like, no, I'm letterman.

[59] You got, the deal's complete.

[60] You needed to promote something.

[61] I don't know you anything.

[62] Your podcast is that big that you don't know anyone anything.

[63] You're incredibly generous because you did my friend Michael Rosenbaum.

[64] Yeah, that was super fun.

[65] But I have to say, well, first of all, I like you a lot.

[66] and you're super funny.

[67] And I also, I like being on a podcast, because like I said, when I got here, I just recorded one for mine.

[68] And I said, it's so great to not be in the driver's seat.

[69] I love sort of just going wherever you want to take it because then I can feel the difference.

[70] It takes so much pressure on.

[71] And it is, it's quite a journey from having had tons of practice being interviewed than being the interviewee.

[72] It makes you very aware.

[73] Yeah, you're just, you're not free to just kind of go wherever the hell you want.

[74] And some, It has to have some kind of beginning, middle, and end.

[75] That's on you.

[76] That's an adjustment for me. You know what the podcast, now that we're at eight years, but the thing that I learned the most from the podcast, but you probably already learned from improv training is how to listen to people.

[77] That's the most important thing I learned from the podcast.

[78] It was like when my wife and I went on our first couple of dates, I was a better dater because the podcast taught me how to listen.

[79] Yeah, yeah.

[80] I'd say that's the only thing I truly do have going for me is I am.

[81] I'm really interested in folks.

[82] Shoot the shit and talk to people.

[83] But it really is a nice way to sit down with people that you're interested in and just get to know them and find out what they're like as people.

[84] We're so conditioned because we're so busy in our daily lives that when you see people, we're so conditioned to just get out the minimum amount of acceptable intercourse that gets you the sort of, how you doing, everything good, you're good, I'm good, okay, you're fine.

[85] We're still in good standing.

[86] We're still in good standing.

[87] They're just all check -ins.

[88] Yes.

[89] I also know people that I only know.

[90] socially like I don't know them because like I'm friends with a rock star but I'm only friends with him because his kids go to school with our best friend's kids so he's around a lot but you know I don't know anything about him other than like we went trick or treating five times together yeah but so if you if you were to sit down and talk you got to have that person I did I did I did who was it Pete Wentz oh nice yeah he's really nice oh god he's like so nice I told him I have to remind myself hourly when I'm around him that he's a rock star because you would forget he's just so humble yeah and it's like you almost where you kind of get angry and like Hey, could you fucking toot it up a little bit?

[91] Kick something over at this kid's birthday.

[92] Have a, you know?

[93] Have a tantrum of some kind.

[94] Yeah, please.

[95] Tell someone to fuck off before.

[96] Go into a Coke -fueled rant and then knock over the plants.

[97] Fuck my wife, would you?

[98] What do you've been standing here for hours?

[99] Seriously, you're not using this properly.

[100] Well, I read that you, and this is another fun thing about doing is you invariably read shit that's incorrect.

[101] As happens to me when I go on things, they, you know, like I was on stern.

[102] Most things on the internet are not true.

[103] Yeah, yeah.

[104] I was on stern and they, I assume when.

[105] to this website who dated who right so he wants to get into like my past girlfriends well half of them are completely wrong they're people I've never even met sure and it sounds like I'm just trying to avoid the question but genuinely I've never dated those people but that's the research they did right and it just seems like I'm deflecting but I just really didn't you're like no no I did not date Sarah Ferguson well you know the weird ones that I'm rumored to have dated Tara Lipinski is that a figure skater yeah that's and here's why I was walking across a crosswalk on Hollywood Boulevard one time 13 years ago and she too was in the crosswalk and there was a pap rotsie there and they took a photo of us next to each other walking through across that's it isn't that kind of a metaphor for dating though like sometimes you walk through a crosswalk with people other times you take longer walks sometimes you get in the car and you actually drive somewhere together do you ask when you see that do you think did I date her like does it make you wonder for a second?

[106] No that Monica That could happen with like have you hooked up with this person.

[107] But have I dated Tara Lipinski, no, I would definitely remember that.

[108] That you would know if you dated Tara Lipinski or not for any period of time.

[109] Probably a more accurate question is, did you even realize you were in a crosswalk with Tara Lipinski, which I did not.

[110] And then another one is Ioni Sky.

[111] I happen to be seated next to her at some charity poker event a dozen years ago.

[112] And again, that's, we've dated.

[113] Do you have any of those?

[114] No, no. I mean, I've had little bits of dating here and there, but I've been such a serial monogamous.

[115] Yes.

[116] I wrote that on a piece of paper.

[117] Totally true.

[118] It's like three -year relationship, seven -year relationship, three -year relationship, marriage.

[119] Literally the term serial monogamous.

[120] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[121] I just, I like being in a relationship.

[122] I have dated before, but I feel weird about dating.

[123] Yeah, it's very, very uncomfortable.

[124] It feels strange to go out with one person one night and then go out with someone else a different night.

[125] It just feels weird.

[126] And I have done it.

[127] I'm not saying I haven't done it when I was younger.

[128] I only did it once in my life, too.

[129] I was with a girl for nine years.

[130] We had an open relationship.

[131] So I did have sex with people.

[132] I'm not denying that.

[133] But I never went on a date.

[134] And I basically never had gone on a date my whole life until she and I broke up.

[135] So there was like a year window between her and Kristen where I did date people.

[136] And I felt like a serial killer going out with one gal one night and having a great time.

[137] And then you go out with another gal like four days later and having an equally great time.

[138] If someone will now, I mean, I didn't really date much when there was texting because it's right, right, right.

[139] But if someone texts you while you're on a date with someone, like stuff like that just feels weird.

[140] I mean, if it's part of the agreement and everyone understands this is not, you know, like this is allowed, it still feels kind of strange.

[141] But even when that's communicated and that's the understanding, it's still bullshit.

[142] It doesn't feel right.

[143] And I just like getting to the stage where you're in your jammies with someone and you're watching, you know, the movie Parenthood for the 150th time.

[144] Yeah, yeah.

[145] I didn't just, I was an accident on a poll.

[146] But I do watch that movie once a year.

[147] How embarrassing for me. I do watch that movie once a year, though.

[148] That movie.

[149] You know I'm in the TV show.

[150] Yes, I knew you're in the TV show.

[151] Oh, and that makes sense because one of the other facts I read about you is that you really like Steve Martin.

[152] I do like Steve.

[153] Yeah.

[154] And so he is the star of Parenthood.

[155] He is the star of Parenthood.

[156] And Mary Steenbergin was at the, I then I go to the Critics Choice Awards the other night.

[157] And I wanted to walk up to her and just say, hey, I watch Parenthood once a year.

[158] And then I realized, like, what's she going to say to that?

[159] Like, she didn't ever.

[160] She actually would love it because, you know, my wife's on a show with Ted.

[161] Yep.

[162] And so we've hung out with them a bunch of times and probably the nicest, coolest woman in the biz.

[163] Did your wife have to do the thing?

[164] We all did something for, it was like an NBC promo.

[165] Like earlier this week?

[166] Yeah.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And I had heard.

[169] Oh, and Kristen shot one of the show.

[170] I'm sure she did because I think everyone, because I was hearing stories about Ted Dantson, dancing.

[171] I have a very hard time with his last name.

[172] You mean that it sounds like Ted Danson, like D -A -N -C -I -N?

[173] Yeah.

[174] There was a band called Ted Danson.

[175] Or who was on who's the boss?

[176] Tony Danza.

[177] Yes.

[178] Danza, Danson, those are rough for me. And then Danzig.

[179] I mean, can these guys get together already?

[180] Glenn Danzig, who I, oh my God.

[181] When I get my feathers ruffled that I have an interaction with somebody in the real world that is very awkward, right?

[182] I have to remind myself of how many times.

[183] I was awkward with famous people, one of them being Glenn Danzig, who I got on an airplane with at one point.

[184] And I was behind him and he had like three buddies with him.

[185] And Glenn Danzig, have you ever seen him in real life?

[186] Yeah.

[187] He's shockingly short.

[188] Yeah.

[189] I mean, like it would really take your breath away.

[190] Right.

[191] Because as a kid, I grew up, you know, he was a monster.

[192] He was like scary as hell and he's built like shit.

[193] He wrestled an alligator in one video.

[194] Do you remember that?

[195] Yeah, probably.

[196] Yeah.

[197] So I was picturing, you know, a humongous fellow.

[198] and he's very, very short.

[199] So I said to his buddy, well, Glenn Danzig's, he's short, huh?

[200] He goes, yeah, and you're fucking tall.

[201] Who gives a shit, motherfucker?

[202] Yeah.

[203] Oh, God, this is the thing that Glenn's really sensitive about and I just went straight at it.

[204] I just bullseided it.

[205] Yeah, usually, and this is just a good rule of thumb for people in general.

[206] Usually the first thought you have about a celebrity or their name or their appearance, whatever, they've heard it.

[207] They're aware.

[208] Yeah, I've been punished for those indiscretions I had.

[209] I met Gary Cole at an audition once, a great actor, Gary Cole.

[210] It's been in a million things, but you'd know him from office space or a Brady Bunch or a million other things.

[211] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[212] So I said, oh, hey, my friends and I were talking the other day about how you and Gary Coleman, and I sort of say Gary Coleman, he goes, Gary Coleman, yeah, I know.

[213] And he was cool about it, but I had to be reminded like, I'm doing the thing.

[214] I know, I'm doing it now.

[215] You know, it's just human.

[216] It's just sort of, it's just human.

[217] Yeah, you don't have any prior experience that has prepared you for this interaction.

[218] But I met Steve Martin last year a couple times and he was great.

[219] He was.

[220] I did a movie that he was in, baby mama.

[221] Yep.

[222] And we had a lot of time hanging out on set.

[223] And I found him to be more serious of a guy than I would have thought.

[224] And I'm not saying that in a negative way.

[225] He's a pretty smart, serious individual.

[226] He's a pretty straight arrow and he's all so shy.

[227] Like if you read Born St. standing up, which is if you were even kind of a Steve Martin fan or a fan of comedy, stand of whatever, you have to read or actually even better listen to the audio version because he reads it.

[228] So when he kind of reads a lot of his old bits, he's kind of doing a lot of the bits again.

[229] Oh, that's cool.

[230] So yeah, but a lot of comedians are pretty serious people.

[231] Yeah.

[232] Just because you're like really, when it's go time, you can be huge, loud and bright and shiny.

[233] It doesn't necessarily mean you're that way.

[234] Now, you were born in Kentucky.

[235] This is true.

[236] Yeah.

[237] That part from the internet is true.

[238] Okay.

[239] And then you moved to Memphis, Tennessee.

[240] There was a little bit of shuffling in between Kentucky and Tennessee, but ultimately I ended up in Memphis.

[241] Do you eat it blue plate?

[242] Is that my favorite one?

[243] Is that the name of it?

[244] I don't remember.

[245] It's a beautiful smoke sausage in there.

[246] I don't remember.

[247] The sign inside says put some south in your mouth.

[248] Oh, that's good.

[249] Yeah.

[250] That's a fun.

[251] That might have come down this year.

[252] That may be.

[253] But I don't think it's coming down.

[254] You don't think so.

[255] They're pretty happy.

[256] It rhymes.

[257] It rhymes.

[258] But yeah, so we kind of shifted, went to Florida a little bit.

[259] But ultimately, yeah, I was raised in Memphis.

[260] And so when people ask me where I'm from, I just say Memphis because it's...

[261] Well, that's a cool...

[262] Too complicated to explain.

[263] Because I say, they go where you're from?

[264] And I go a lot of places and they go, Army brat.

[265] And I go, no, my dad was a professional bowler.

[266] That's what I mean...

[267] And when I say that, then it's like 50 other questions.

[268] And by the way, me bringing out Memphis is really only a vehicle to me for me to say, your father was a professional bowler.

[269] My father was a Hall of Fame bowler.

[270] He's in the Hall of Fame.

[271] He's one of the greatest bowlers and literally one of the greatest in the history of the sport.

[272] You're kidding.

[273] And are you a good bowler?

[274] Yes.

[275] You are?

[276] It's genetic.

[277] Well, I could bowl from the time I could walk.

[278] And my mother's father also had a couple bowling centers, which I'm pretty sure is how my parents met.

[279] But your mom's dad owned the bowling nail.

[280] Yes.

[281] And then they met there.

[282] This is the problem if you're a dad of daughters.

[283] It's like a Romeo and Juliet situation.

[284] I don't know because Romeo and Juliet weren't supposed to be together, right?

[285] Their family's trying to keep apart.

[286] But this was all bowling.

[287] Oh, everyone was happy.

[288] But what I'm saying it might be a little bit of a cautionary tale is if you start a business and you have daughters, you have to think about the fact of, you know, what kind of business are you starting?

[289] Because your daughters are going to interact with all these folks, right?

[290] Because your daughters are going to interact with bowlers.

[291] Yeah.

[292] So your daughter is likely going to end up with a bowler, which in fact happened.

[293] That happened, yeah.

[294] And what kind of livelihood can a professional bowler pull down in the 80s?

[295] Well, this was in the 60s.

[296] He retired at about 34.

[297] So he was like 17 to 34, he was on the Pro Bowler's tour.

[298] Uh -huh.

[299] Wow, 17?

[300] 17, yeah.

[301] And so...

[302] Was he getting a lot of ass on that tour?

[303] Were there a lot of female bowler fans?

[304] Well, yeah.

[305] I mean, yes, because at the time, bowling was actually a very premier sport in this country.

[306] It was televised, right?

[307] It was a very cool thing to do.

[308] And then in the 70s, it started to slide a bit.

[309] And so what's interesting about the financial gains of bowling is that the money in bowling has weirdly not gone up at all from the time that my dad was on the tour.

[310] That doesn't shock me. So it's actually even like the greatest bowlers on tour right now, if I understand correctly, are clearing about like 300 grand.

[311] And you can make that in one fucking golf match.

[312] Yes.

[313] Yeah, by not even placing in the, yeah, exactly.

[314] Fun thing about this podcast is that at the end of all this, Monica will go and check everything we've said and then she'll give the real data.

[315] So we fact check at the end of our podcast.

[316] So people, if they stay tuned, they'll find out exactly what a professional bowler currently makes.

[317] I think the top bowlers make in the 250 to 300 range.

[318] And that's like those are the top top guys.

[319] There's just those are the Michael Jordans of bowling.

[320] Those are not, there's not a lot of money in it, unfortunately.

[321] But isn't it, it's all about the endorsement game, I would imagine.

[322] But even so, like a lot of the money from bowling before, if you were a, if you owned a bowling center, which my dad did until he died, was league bowling.

[323] You know, like leads were huge.

[324] And then at a certain point it started shifting and it became like cosmic bowling and like leagues dropped off.

[325] But then people would come and go to a bowling center like a bar like a club and the lights would be flashy.

[326] I hate all that shit because it just like I need to focus.

[327] Right.

[328] But yeah.

[329] You like an old fashion.

[330] I need.

[331] I need.

[332] I don't mind an automatic score.

[333] Gas lantern.

[334] I don't mind.

[335] Yeah.

[336] I need gas lanterns.

[337] I need steampunk.

[338] I need bowling spats.

[339] Uh -huh.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Wooden bowling balls.

[342] Did you ever see racing with the moon that great movie was Sean?

[343] Sean Penn and Nicholas Cage.

[344] Is that the bicycle movie?

[345] No. No, they're about to go to World War II and Sean Penn gets his girlfriend pregnant or rather maybe Nicholas Cage gets his.

[346] It doesn't matter.

[347] They work at a bowling alley and they work at one word they had to reset the pins.

[348] Oh, yeah.

[349] Those are the old days.

[350] Nostalgia for that.

[351] Yeah, those are the old days.

[352] But it, but it, but it, but it, I love bowling.

[353] I love being in it.

[354] Like if I walk into a bowling center, the sounds and the smells.

[355] And you call it a bowling center, not a bowling alley.

[356] Why is it uncouth to say bowling alley?

[357] So what's interesting is, that if, like, what is not interesting to anyone but me. You've said Bowling Center more times in the last five minutes than I've heard my whole life.

[358] Well, now you will also.

[359] I probably will.

[360] Yeah, it's just like in any profession how if you understand what the vernacular is, every word, the nuance of every word means something slightly different.

[361] A bowling alley is a very seedy place.

[362] A bowling alley is like, it's sort of like the difference between going to a pool hall and a billiard club.

[363] So it's like, if you go to a bowling alley, it's pretty, that means pretty seedy.

[364] If you go to a bowling center, that's a family place.

[365] So when my dad and my grandfather had bowling centers, it's like these were safe places where you could take your families.

[366] Yes.

[367] And that is different than a bowling alley, which is where you would, you are likely to get shot.

[368] What was their thinking?

[369] I was just telling this to somebody this weekend that, you know, I grew up in kind of rural Michigan.

[370] Yeah.

[371] The bowling alley in town was this amazing opportunity to see adults acting like fucking animals.

[372] Because there were arcade games there and they sold food, everyone was welcome.

[373] There wasn't like an age on it.

[374] But always in plain view, there was a bar where people were getting shit -faced and fighting every couple hours.

[375] Right.

[376] Or slow dancing.

[377] So a lot of these songs, these 80s, Sappy love songs, when I hear them, I immediately go back to watching, like, really hammered adults, slow dancing at 3 p .m. Love beer.

[378] I'm breaking me to my knee.

[379] Wait, sorry, I have a really quick question.

[380] Oh, that was Def Lepp.

[381] Oh, thank you.

[382] Wait just she fact checks you and find out.

[383] You find out it was twisted.

[384] That is 100 % definitely not how much I know.

[385] What is a good score for a professional bowler?

[386] Like someone who's really good.

[387] What does that mean?

[388] I'll take this, Monica.

[389] I'll take this.

[390] Every one of the start.

[391] If you're bowling 220, you're a stud, right?

[392] Not on the tour anymore.

[393] Oh, really?

[394] So I wrote an article.

[395] When I used to write for Wired, I wrote an article in Wired based on something my dad used to say, which is, ah, bowling's gotten too easy because the technology has made all the scores higher.

[396] And so I did a bunch of research.

[397] Uh -huh.

[398] Talked to some companies and found out that he was actually accurate.

[399] My father was like on, my dad had like the highest average on the tour in the 60s for a couple of years at like 212.

[400] And in the 60s, that was really high.

[401] Yeah.

[402] But you have to look at the material.

[403] This is where everyone's fucking falling asleep.

[404] Bowling balls are made out of rubber.

[405] The lanes were made out of wood.

[406] The pins were made out of wood.

[407] Now, if you go to a bowling center, the lane is actually not wood.

[408] The lane is actually a composite.

[409] It's composite material with wood grain laser printed on it.

[410] And the reason that that's relevant is because wood deteriorates and has to be resurfaced.

[411] It has to be grouped.

[412] And then the bowling ball material now has a cover stock.

[413] They have glass particles in them.

[414] It's called a reactive resin.

[415] And they have glass particles in them.

[416] When the ball starts spinning, it creates friction.

[417] For lack of a better way, the pores on the ball open up a bit so the glass particles then grab the lane and then kind of slingshot into the pocket and explode the pins.

[418] And so where the game used to be about accuracy and making spares, now it's just making strike, strike, strike.

[419] So all the best bowlers now average like 240, 250.

[420] Oh, really?

[421] But in my dad's day, it was like 212.

[422] How many career 300s did he get?

[423] He had 66.

[424] Oh, my God.

[425] He hit the Guinness record for a while.

[426] Oh, really?

[427] Yeah, I don't think he does anymore, but he did.

[428] I hope you find an old edition of the Guinness Book of World Record and keep it on a bookshelf so that when you eventually procreate it was a mechanism or a platform by which I could acquire something as useless as a Guinness Book of World Records from 1987.

[429] Yeah, you could easily track that down, right?

[430] I feel like I could probably get that pretty easily.

[431] You were very savvy on the internet.

[432] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[433] We've all been there.

[434] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[435] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[436] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[437] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[438] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[439] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[440] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[441] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[442] What's up, guys?

[443] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[444] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[445] Every episode, I bring on a friend.

[446] and have a real conversation.

[447] And I don't mean just friends.

[448] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[449] The list goes on.

[450] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[451] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[452] So your dad owned a bowling center and a bowling cathedral and in Memphis.

[453] And then in Florida?

[454] No, that was my grandfather's.

[455] Oh, okay.

[456] And then you eventually, and this is to me where things get dodgy, if I'm you.

[457] You move from Memphis.

[458] Episode 7 doesn't know how to turn his phone off.

[459] Yeah, well, I was having that crisis.

[460] Chris is here.

[461] Do not do that.

[462] Jesus.

[463] You moved to Colorado in high school.

[464] My mom remarried.

[465] My parents divorced.

[466] My mom remarried, the guy she married, who was a wonderful guy.

[467] We moved to Denver, Colorado for a few years.

[468] How did you get the one wonderful stepdad?

[469] That's kind of, that breaks the mold.

[470] I cannot tell you how lucky I feel.

[471] Both my dad and my stepdad both died But he was a good guy My stepdad Jim's name was Jim Hills Great guy And was he I want to ask a silly question Please ask a silly question He was dishonored their memory Now that I said they're both dead My father has passed too Okay get over yourself All right You're not so cool My dad's dead too Yeah mine was 62 How old was yours?

[472] Yeah made it to 72 Yeah okay But Jim was the stepdad Jim was a stepdad He wasn't intimidated by your father father's prowess as a bowler.

[473] Well, what's interesting is that Jim was also a professional bowler for a while.

[474] Get the fuck out of here.

[475] But Jim was also, but he was a lefty, left -handed bowler.

[476] And, and then, but he, he gave up bowling shortly after he and my mom started dating.

[477] But he was like a scratch golfer and he was just a crazy good athlete.

[478] But also just a, he was a lovely guy because he knew how to be a dad, but he was very respectful that he knew he was not my biological father.

[479] Yeah.

[480] But, but, but he also treated me like.

[481] a son, but not in a way that was like, you fucking listen.

[482] He was just a good guy and very supportive and very, he was just a lovely guy.

[483] Well, you know, I got a whole new respect for the business of stepfathering when in that year I wasn't in between Kristen and the nine -year girlfriend.

[484] I dated a woman with a son.

[485] What happens, what is very hard about it is I fell in love with this little boy.

[486] And now, because I love this little boy, I want him to turn out well.

[487] You see something that they're doing that you think is going to result in them being a shit had you feel compelled to correct the behavior and it's just a big no -no you can't really do that as the non -biological father it's also kind of strange i mean and i'm not apparent so i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about but but knowing when someone is doing something that is not going to have a good result you want to tell them and go this is going to get fucked up if you do it this way but that also they don't learn that way and then if you fuck it up because you told them you made them aware of it it's almost like the matrix thing of like would you have broken the vase if I hadn't told you about it.

[488] Right.

[489] You damage the experiment by observing the experiment.

[490] I just feel like you and I've had about 10 conversations at this point.

[491] And I feel like you brought up the matrix and almost all of them.

[492] Do all roads lead back to the matrix?

[493] Did I?

[494] Or is that just what your program is telling me?

[495] Yes, exactly.

[496] When we get pulled out of this, you make me think of the Matrix.

[497] We did because I look like Neo so much.

[498] You look just like a matrix.

[499] Yeah, because we talked about this notion that people.

[500] have that we're living in a simulation.

[501] In my point, which I don't think you agreed with, was only people with awesome lives think we're in a simulation.

[502] Like, of course, Elon Musk is a big proponent of this theory.

[503] I've heard him talk about it a bunch.

[504] And I think, yeah, for Elon Musk, it must feel like he's in a computer generated world because there's no way he's that successful and invented this many things.

[505] But I don't think there's a coal miner right now digging in the coal going, this is a fucking simulation, isn't it?

[506] I'm just in a coal mining simulation.

[507] I just happen to be the unlucky guy who got stuck in the coal mining simulation.

[508] Unless he loves being a coal miner.

[509] Yep, that's what I was about to say.

[510] I think that's a privilege.

[511] No, no, I think that's patronizing and placating and what else to pretend that there's a coal miner who fucking loves coal mining.

[512] It could be patronizing to say that there's no way his life is good.

[513] I didn't say his life wasn't good.

[514] I said the job sucks.

[515] Look, I've had those fucking jobs.

[516] I was a rougher.

[517] I did tasseled corn.

[518] They weren't good.

[519] fun jobs.

[520] Can we just call him out for saying that's a very narcissistic point of view that just because he doesn't like it means that no one else can like it?

[521] Yes, please call him out always.

[522] I call you out.

[523] They call that naive realism in anthropology that you can't comprehend someone in Africa doesn't want a microwave.

[524] Coal mining versus owning Tesla's probably, I think we can, we don't have to pussyfoot around that.

[525] It's probably better to own Tesla than fucking work in a coal mine and get black lung.

[526] Also, is it, you know, I'm getting angry.

[527] Then there's sort of the side.

[528] subtle difference between working in a coal mine and mining that type of fuel and then an electric car.

[529] It's kind of a deep, yeah, it's got an allegorical.

[530] So there's so much more.

[531] But I don't know if like if we if we unplugged from the Matrix and Elon Musk is a guy in a mail room who's getting, you know, pistol whipped by a bad boss.

[532] And then he jacks back into the matrix and he's like, I am the smartest man in the world.

[533] Yeah, yeah.

[534] I've privatized space travel.

[535] I go to space.

[536] I'm making, I'm, let's make tubes underground.

[537] So you moved to Colorado.

[538] Yes, sir.

[539] Right.

[540] And that's for high school.

[541] Mm -hmm.

[542] No, I changed school districts in high school and I found that very hard.

[543] I liked it.

[544] No, I did.

[545] I did because my family.

[546] Your stepdad ruled.

[547] You loved changing a whole new high school.

[548] I know.

[549] I think coal mining's an awesome job.

[550] I think it's right.

[551] I'm with you there.

[552] I do too.

[553] I think we moved a handful of times when I was growing up.

[554] And so, you know, this thing would happen with me where I was a, I was almost popular for being unpopular in the sense that, you know, I was in chess club.

[555] I did play D &D.

[556] And so in those days at a pre -internet era, you really only could relate to like maybe three or four other people in your entire town.

[557] And then that was it.

[558] You did not have the joy and beauty of digital communities to connect to other people and support you.

[559] Yeah.

[560] So what would happen is we would move.

[561] And every time I would become, I don't know if this is going to make sense to you, but I would become capital city millhouse for like a minute where I would be like a, I'd be like, Oh, I, like, people didn't think I was a dip shit.

[562] And then I would just slide back into my old, like, I could not maintain the facade and all the obsessions, the obsessions with video games and sci -fi and stand -up comedy.

[563] Like, things that most other kids at that time were not into.

[564] Yes.

[565] And I know it sounds strange to say that, but that's true.

[566] Most other kids were not into the stuff that I was into.

[567] And so it always gave me a chance to start over.

[568] Yeah.

[569] And I enjoyed that, even though I knew I was going to fuck it up.

[570] Right.

[571] I had a very, very steep decline.

[572] I was cool in junior high, and then I switched schools and started ninth grade with a short long, you know.

[573] Why can you not be cool with a name like Dax?

[574] Look, when you're cool, it works.

[575] And when you have a really bad short long and bad skin and you've grown three inches and lost 10 pounds and your name Dax.

[576] Now it all backfires.

[577] Sure.

[578] Mine was like it went from having a blast in school to be miserable.

[579] Yeah.

[580] Oh, and the worst, like during puberty too, like the worst time to not have a good time.

[581] I was 6 .3 and 149 pounds acne and just the worst haircut you've ever seen.

[582] But I think, and I look back on those days on those really awkward times where I felt like it sucks to be socially ostracized.

[583] I don't enjoy not liking other kids because I think they're into dumb things.

[584] And then when I look back on that, I think, well, that was so significant because if I had been popular in grade school, then I would have peaked.

[585] because it wouldn't have occurred to me to be introspective in any way or really drive me to try to excel.

[586] Well, you would have ran the risk of being content.

[587] Like, life would have been good.

[588] You would have had a bunch of friends and probably wanted to stay in your town.

[589] And then at a certain point, you know, life doesn't get so easy.

[590] And you don't have as many of the coping skills because things came very easily to you when you were young.

[591] Yeah.

[592] And I mean, I'm oversimplifying.

[593] Everyone has a fucking struggle.

[594] But ultimately, and then at 25 or 30, you're like, what the fuck and you don't know you know no yeah i mean in one of the malcolm gladwell books it talks which one blink i can't even keep track i've read them all uh but uh there's a chapter on dyslexia and uh for for decades it was known that if you were dyslexic you had it uh twice as likely to go to prison but then they've later found out that you're also twice as likely to be a CEO of a company so it's one of those things that either destroys you or makes you yeah yeah yeah Yeah.

[595] So I think that's why I kind of tell people the things that you think are flaws actually make you unique.

[596] And those are actually weirdly your strengths.

[597] Yeah.

[598] The things that you, when you look in the mirror and you see some weird version or something or you obsess on one thing, number one, most people don't also see that thing because they're obsessing about their own things.

[599] And number two, it's probably just sort of a weird conformist evolutionary piece of biology in your brain that makes you think like, I need to.

[600] to be this to be accepted but then hopefully you start to realize like no no no that thing makes me unique and that is the thing that that makes me uh that that provides the strength that i actually made but um yeah to your point about the biology i do think people um vastly underestimate the fact that we are the ultimate pack animals like we think of dogs we know dogs are pack animals and then we go oh because they're pack animals we can train them this way but we own them right dogs good point nice try dogs.

[601] Yeah, my analogy breaks down completely now that I remember we own them.

[602] But we're even more social than them.

[603] You know what I'm saying?

[604] So you can do these things to a dog and go, oh, well, the dog needs to know right away.

[605] Is it alpha, beta, gamma?

[606] You know, this is how you're going to train this dog.

[607] It has so much hardwiring to be social to live in a pack, right?

[608] We have even more hardwiring for that.

[609] So our obsession.

[610] But not just live in a pack, when I think a dog also has a drive to be in a social hierarchy.

[611] As do we, though.

[612] You look at every primate, which we are primate and they have the most clearly defined strata of hierarchy, you know?

[613] Sure.

[614] And we too have that.

[615] So I think so much of our preoccupation about status and success and all these things, they're just, they're fucking carryover bad genetics that helped us for years.

[616] Yes.

[617] Well, because ultimately, I mean, if you really think about that part of a human's biological directive is to preserve your genes, I'm not saying that's all people are, you know, supposed to do or meant to do, but I'm just saying if there's biological programming somewhere in our limbic system that says, you know, I have genes, I need to make sure genes.

[618] And in order to do that, I need to be accepted by a group.

[619] In order to be accepted by a group, I have to have certain skills or I have to do things so that I can show what I, and I think it's part of the reason why sociopaths are so attractive and narcissists can be so attractive because, well, maybe not narcissists, but sociopaths, because when someone doesn't need you, you are instantly attracted to them because I think on a biological level, you go, oh my God, they don't need anything.

[620] They're not injured.

[621] They don't need my approval.

[622] Right.

[623] And that tells me, oh, they're above me. Yes.

[624] Because I'm only seeking the approval of people that are above me. And when I walk into 7 -Eleven and there's the guy with the parrot on his shoulder, I'm not praying that he tells me he likes how I parked.

[625] Hope he doesn't meet the lizard guy.

[626] But if Michael Schumacher, if Michael Schumacher is walking out of 7 -11, I'm like, I hope he notices how well I parked.

[627] What if he had a parrot?

[628] Would you be excited about that?

[629] Michael Schumacher, yeah, he could get away with having a parent.

[630] But a kick that I've been complaining a lot lately is just about how I think social media and the internet upends all of that.

[631] And as much as I love it, I mean, I really do think that I'm crossing my fingers that it all nets positively, but just in the way that it encourages people to communicate is very toxic.

[632] I'm concerned that a lot of those biological mechanisms are being applied to a paradigm that preys on all of the weaknesses of our evolution.

[633] All of our wiring is vestigial to that new high -tech paradigm.

[634] Yes.

[635] And my big concern with it all is this is so, okay, you used to live in a group with 200 other humans, right?

[636] And you lived with all the guys and the women all lived together.

[637] This is how we lived for 150 ,000 years.

[638] And you were going to be the best at something.

[639] Right.

[640] You were going to make the best spears.

[641] You were going to, something you would stand out for.

[642] And that would give you self -esteem.

[643] And now you're in a group of literally 4 billion people if you're on Facebook.

[644] So the odds of you being the best at anything, it's impossible.

[645] You'll never, also you're dating.

[646] And if you live with 200 people, you can pretty much guess who's the best gal you can get.

[647] And I'm sure we talked about this in your other podcast, but this is exactly why I am so fascinated by the Dunning Kruger experiments.

[648] Yes.

[649] Which basically.

[650] Are you accusing me of suffering from Dunning.

[651] No, no, no, no, no, no. That I know the least about this topic.

[652] I can be speaking the most about it.

[653] That's exactly right, is that that idea of people needing to be the best at something.

[654] And so having people speak as experts when they don't know something is a, it's not just because they're being dicks.

[655] It's a biological.

[656] And also the idea that people who are ignorant about something, not stupid, but I mean ignorant of actual facts, they're too ignorant to know that they are ignorant about something.

[657] So they need to believe that they are experts in order to fold into culture and society.

[658] And so, you know, when people get all superior online, a large percentage of them genuinely don't know exactly what they're talking about.

[659] They have pieced a story together that they need to believe in order to allow themselves to function.

[660] Yes.

[661] What's that good quote?

[662] You told me about it, about smart people and dumb people.

[663] Oh, there's the.

[664] He who dealt it.

[665] Smelt it.

[666] Yeah, that's what it is.

[667] That's exactly what it is.

[668] It's a Bukowski quote.

[669] And I can't remember it exactly.

[670] But it goes something like the big tragedy of.

[671] of life for humans is that the dumbest people speak the most and the smartest people speak the least.

[672] Something.

[673] I'm fucking it up.

[674] He wrote it.

[675] He had discovered the Dunning -Bruger.

[676] Yeah, before.

[677] And of course, I'm sure we sound like assholes even talking about it.

[678] So maybe we're the dumbest people of all.

[679] But I do think that even recognizing that has been really interesting because it makes me more hesitant.

[680] When I say things, now I've become an overqualifier where I go, I don't, you know, like maybe this isn't right or in my opinion.

[681] or but how many arguments I've got with people online where they say something I go well you know that's your opinion but this idea that we're in opinionist fact era it's like well I feel this so if you don't feel this then you're fucking stupid because I'm right and you're wrong well did you research that I mean it doesn't matter I know I don't know you know and I'm sure this happened to you like I've been proven wrong dozens of times online I've like tweeted something and then someone posts me an article or whatever and I believe that and then that feeling of having to acknowledge I was wrong and correct, it is so painful.

[682] It doesn't bother me. It doesn't.

[683] I like it because I feel like I learned something.

[684] See, people really misunderstand the difference between constructive criticism and just fucking toxic insults.

[685] There's a difference between, oh, hey, I know you said this thing, but here's something that might enlighten.

[686] Right.

[687] Oh, my God.

[688] That's great.

[689] I'm so sorry.

[690] I, you know, whatever.

[691] I'm just talking to my ass.

[692] Thank you for teaching me something.

[693] Yeah.

[694] Versus, hey, you fucking idiot.

[695] Yeah, yeah.

[696] What circle of Satan's anus did you crawl out of?

[697] And then you go, that's really mean.

[698] And they go, oh, I guess you're not open to criticism.

[699] Like, no, that was insulting.

[700] No, I didn't.

[701] I'm pretty sure nine out of ten people would have found that insulting.

[702] I feel like my experiences have not been that soft touch you just described.

[703] I feel like most of the times I've been proven wrong.

[704] There was a couple fuck yous in there.

[705] So it's been hard for me. It's partially why I always try to attack with kindness or let someone know.

[706] because ultimately I think everyone wants to be heard.

[707] Everyone wants to be heard because we all want to feel significant and connected.

[708] Even if someone's shitty to you, if you say like, hey, you know, I understand what your point is.

[709] I'm listening.

[710] I hear you.

[711] I don't necessarily agree.

[712] And also, you know, that was a little hurt.

[713] You're great at that.

[714] You are particularly good at that.

[715] And so is my wife.

[716] I watch the way she disarms people when she's in these spats online.

[717] Because she often is tweeting something that's semi -political or, you know, has something to do with a philanthropy.

[718] It's not always the first thing I write.

[719] I will allow myself to write the go fuck yourself in the face tweet and then I delete it.

[720] And then I, you know, because I think it's important to ask yourself, is this just going to make my ego feel better for half a second?

[721] And then I'm going to hop on the bike and backpedal.

[722] And if I'm going to back pedal, then I shouldn't bother with this.

[723] And I should, you know, if there are any truth to what this person's saying, am I wrong?

[724] Am I a dumb piece of shit?

[725] Maybe I am.

[726] I can't remember, you're sober, but I can't remember.

[727] remember did you 12 step or no no I went to a couple meetings in the beginning and I did not connect with them yeah and so I had a very good therapist and I had a good group of fellow stand -up comics who not surprisingly a lot of whom had had substance battles sure and so I sort of I did have a support structure a couple support structures now that I've been sober for 14 years oh yeah I noticed you're sober like a year and a month longer than me yeah so if now that I'm in sober for this long I find I'm still learning things about myself and sobriety, and I have gone to a couple of meetings that I really enjoyed, and I understand them differently now.

[728] Yeah.

[729] Because I understand, I used to think my problem was alcoholism.

[730] My problem is not alcoholism.

[731] My problem is sort of obsessive, destructive, yeah, it's obsessive, destructive thinking, and it's control issues and it's self -loathing, and it's all these things that alcohol was a manifestation of that.

[732] but the meetings where, you know, a couple that I've been to, and I don't go to them very often, but when I do, I was kind of feel like, oh, yeah, this is a thing.

[733] This is just a common thing that people have.

[734] Well, look, it's so easy to go and focus on how different you are from everyone in the room.

[735] But if you can focus on the things that you have in common with people, you know, whatever.

[736] By the way, I could care less how people get sober for the record.

[737] However they do it.

[738] Yeah, yeah.

[739] But for me, the reason I bring it up is that, you know, I'm kind of required to take a daily inventory at the end of the day.

[740] And if I'm wrong, I'm required to promptly admit it and say sorry.

[741] So I make a lot of apologies, whether it's on a set, you know, I'll be short with the costumer or something.

[742] Then the next day I'll say sorry.

[743] So what's interesting about Twitter or anything on the internet is this policy I have in real life, which is I almost 100 % of the time will apologize to people.

[744] And because I know I'm going to have to do that, it does curb my, my actions.

[745] You're being accountable.

[746] I'm going to have to say sorry.

[747] It's just I'm not even going to do the thing I want to do because I know invariably I'm going to owe someone an But online, I don't.

[748] Like, that doesn't even cross my mind at the end of the day.

[749] That's why I only have accounts online where I am open about who I am.

[750] I do not have any secret accounts.

[751] I do not do anything anonymously because it makes me accountable to people.

[752] And then you're less likely to just treat people like trash.

[753] But this idea of this AA idea, which I find comforting and fascinating, just the limited amount of time that I've spent with it and understand it, is where your ego is pushing you to, For significant, significant, significance, it's sort of admitting the idea that you are insignificant.

[754] That is incredibly comforting.

[755] Then it relinquishes the idea that you are in control or have to control everything.

[756] Yeah, yeah.

[757] The clearest case of that that happens kind of regularly is like, you believe you are absolutely at war with another driver, that they're trying to kill you and you're trying to kill them.

[758] And then at some point you get to pull up next to them and you realize that they're either on their phone or they're like fucking brushing their hair.

[759] awareness of you.

[760] They don't know you're on planet Earth.

[761] It's so humbling when you discover that.

[762] There's another version of that, which I know people who are listening and everyone has been a victim of, which is you see someone at a party that you like and you don't know them very well and you say something.

[763] Maybe you crack a joke or you say something.

[764] And then you get it stuck in your head.

[765] You leave and you go, I shouldn't have said that.

[766] Why did I say that?

[767] Why did I say that to that person?

[768] They fucking hate me. And then you build this whole narrative that is just being filtered and fed. through the lens of your own self -loathing and insecurity and your own baggage lenses.

[769] And then you either call them or email them the next time you see them, I am so sorry, I said this thing.

[770] And they go, what are you talking about?

[771] Like, they're thinking about themselves or they didn't know to, you know, the narrative.

[772] Oh, I'm the best storyteller about how bad I've fucked up.

[773] I got to say that's when I'm most creative.

[774] These theories I concoct, the things I said to people, how they took them.

[775] Now what they're doing in response to that, as you say, it's completely in your head.

[776] it's fake.

[777] But because I've had, I have worked the steps and I've had to call, you know, most of the people I've fucked over during, you know, decade plus of being a drunk.

[778] More often than not, I call them and I apologize and they go, oh, well, that's nice that you said sorry, but I didn't give a shit.

[779] We were all fucked up that.

[780] You know, whatever it is.

[781] It is always a thousand times more powerful in my mind than, not always.

[782] Often it's more powerful in my mind than it is theirs.

[783] And then what you learn from that whole process is, oh, I'm apologizing for me because I'm the one carrying it.

[784] That person's not waking up in the middle of the night remembering the time I stole their viking and out of their dresser.

[785] You know what I'm saying?

[786] But I am.

[787] And that's why you apologize because it's too much to carry around all these things that you fucked up.

[788] If you have an active imagination like we do and we're writing a narrative, it's just too exhausting.

[789] I just have to kind of clean the plate at the end of every day, you know.

[790] Yeah.

[791] And it's interesting to me because I had great parents.

[792] My dad was, you know, I mean, Did he drink too much?

[793] Yeah, he did.

[794] So did mine.

[795] And he drank until he died, but it lessened as he, but he still drank every day.

[796] He probably still drank like a six pack of beer a day, slowly throughout the night.

[797] Yeah.

[798] And occasionally he would get drunk.

[799] But, you know, when I was a teenager, my dad kind of went through a midlife crisis and he went through a thing.

[800] But ultimately, he's a great guy and we had a wonderful relationship.

[801] My mom's amazing.

[802] My stepfather was amazing.

[803] And yet somehow, maybe it was this idea of feeling socially ostracized and being shitted by other kids and not relating to.

[804] them.

[805] But at a certain point, and I think it's right around the time we hit puberty, but this image that you have of yourself sort of freezes in your brain.

[806] It's kind of, it's cements in your psyche.

[807] And you always kind of see yourself as that kid.

[808] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[809] And it's just, I don't know if it's just like the burst of hormones, basically like, and then the lava cools and then that's the rock that forms.

[810] And so I feel like we spend a lot of time in service to that kid or or as a prisoner of that kid's fears or whatever they were going through or whatever they were feeling.

[811] And I think this is why people are critical of therapy or any kind of self -help thing is that they misconstrue, and maybe they don't.

[812] A lot of people do use it.

[813] But there's a very clear distinction between an explanation and an excuse.

[814] That's right.

[815] And it's really key that you understand that when you're evaluating.

[816] So it's like it is first helpful to go for me. Oh, yeah, I was molested.

[817] Wow, that made things go on a right turn.

[818] And then my dad was a drunk and blah, blah, blah, blah, right?

[819] But you should only be exploring that insofar.

[820] is to understand why you have these fears that you're not fixed once you...

[821] Yeah, you're not fixed.

[822] Those are tools.

[823] And that doesn't give you carte blanche to act like that fucking 10 year old for the rest of your life.

[824] It's like it's useful to understand that.

[825] But only insofar is it is a means to an end, which is, oh, that's why I have an irrational fear of this and I need to confront that fear.

[826] That's right.

[827] This is why this person triggers me and I got to stop.

[828] It gives you the tools in the chest to figure out how to fix that stuff.

[829] But we really do get this idea in our heads on a very deep level of what we think we deserve without really thinking too much about it.

[830] And so that's why success can be just as much of a trap for people as not succeeding in anything that they set out to do because if they have an idea in their head that they don't deserve it or everything turns to shit or they will destroy it subconsciously without realizing it and you really have to do take a step back.

[831] And I know I've certainly been guilty of it.

[832] of taking a step back and going, okay, is this real?

[833] Or is this just a byproduct of that weird brain thing that I have?

[834] And the power of it is absolutely mind -blowing.

[835] And I was almost unaware of it up until very recently.

[836] So I have this list of things that I've convinced myself are my attractive qualities.

[837] The reasons people like me are drawn to me. Are your painted nails one of them?

[838] That my daughter did that on my birthday last week.

[839] God damn it.

[840] See, now I just, fuck you.

[841] What a dick.

[842] Now we're even for the coal miner.

[843] That's the thing I'm going to be thinking about for days.

[844] I'm sorry, I said the nail thing.

[845] That's a really lovely story.

[846] I think that puts us back neutral from the coal miners today.

[847] Because you're going to win that one.

[848] Online people go, what an elitist prick?

[849] Yeah, I know.

[850] But at any rate, I have an identity, right, that I've constructed, and I have this list of things I think people are attracted to me. The big breakthrough for me was there was a stunt on Chips, the movie I directed.

[851] And I chose to do this stunt.

[852] And I chose to do it without any rehearsal because I didn't want tire marks in the intersection, right?

[853] So when you're watching the movie, you're not, why are there already skid marks?

[854] That's always a pet peeve of mine, right?

[855] So I'm about to do this big stunt and everyone's very nervous at the studio level and the producers are nervous because why on earth is the director and actor doing this stunt?

[856] And I start questioning right before I hear action.

[857] Why have to put yourself in this situation?

[858] Because it was a pretty gnarly stunt that could go wrong easily.

[859] And I had to admit to myself, I've convinced myself one of the things people like about me is that I'm a great driver.

[860] And I sincerely say that.

[861] Like, I would.

[862] put that in the top three if you had to tell me why does your wife like you I would have probably said you know in the top three I'm a fair it's the only reason I did this podcast to be fair that's why I'm here and then another one is I have told myself for years that well people like being around me because they feel safe I will fight guys and I will protect people and that's something that's appealing to people right and when I when I when I that in fact Kristen hated about me and it was very vocal about early in our relationship and I slowly kind of started backing off the stories I'd tell about fighting and blah, blah, blah, and I'm getting into less interactions with people.

[863] And this is what blows my mind.

[864] I'm sponsoring this guy last year who's new, newly sober.

[865] I can tell he is the exact same identity.

[866] He thinks that him being a badass is something everyone likes about him.

[867] And then so weekly, he's telling me, he's like, yeah, I'm at the stoplight and I watch this guy like going to push this old lady down.

[868] And every week he witnesses something that requires him to defend another person.

[869] And I go, oh my God, that was my whole life because I told myself, this is what people like about me. I was always at 7 -11 when someone's shoving someone and I got to get involved.

[870] It's, I can't explain it.

[871] I don't know why that happens.

[872] But since I've stopped thinking that was like one of my best qualities, I don't see any of that anymore.

[873] I am never involved in anything anymore.

[874] You really see the thing that you will confirm your identity.

[875] That's exactly right.

[876] It's just a confirmation bias loop.

[877] And and the internet has not only allowed us to go down these.

[878] What's been blowing my mind lately is the, just to get back to the matrix again in a weird way.

[879] But it's just the concept of what is reality.

[880] We were dangerously far away from the Matrix.

[881] Don't try to dodge it like Neo on the roof.

[882] But just the idea of what is reality and what is truth?

[883] Because you can create a confirmation bias loop based on all of the sites that you go to.

[884] You seek out and confirm all the things you want to believe.

[885] And algorithmically, the internet will deliver those things to you because it goes, oh, you already like this.

[886] One of the things that drives me crazy is when pluralize something that they believe to give it weight.

[887] So they'll go, well, everyone thinks that or all the fans of this are saying, it's like, are all of them really or is it you?

[888] Is it everyone have the strength of character to say it's you?

[889] Did you watch Obama on Letterman?

[890] I haven't seen it.

[891] The reason I brought it up is because he tells a story of a study or something about confirmation, Obama, that there was.

[892] I could have guessed that.

[893] There's no way Letterman was talking about a study.

[894] A study.

[895] There was some study where they had a left liberal type into their search bar, Egypt, and a very right conservative type, Egypt and a moderate.

[896] And what came up for the right wing, it was Muslim Brotherhood.

[897] For the liberal, it was Tiananum Square.

[898] And then the moderate was vacation spot.

[899] Cat videos.

[900] Yeah.

[901] And that is just what's coming to you, not what you're even attempting.

[902] to seek out.

[903] Well, but you're out of your control.

[904] He was saying that Google knows that your left, right or center.

[905] Yeah, based on your search is based on your activity, based on your, everything you do, or Facebook, you know, Facebook.

[906] And it will direct you to reconfirm the thing you already believe.

[907] But that is almost conspiratorial on the part of the internet, right?

[908] It's not, I don't see it as conspiracy in the part of the internet.

[909] I see it as, I see it as a byproduct of convenience sort of being the enemy, right?

[910] where a company goes, we're going to make it so easy for you to get the stuff that you already like.

[911] So you don't have to think about it.

[912] You don't have to think about it.

[913] You know, it's sat on, you know, when someone said that, you go, yeah, of course I want more stuff I like.

[914] But the downside is you're not seeing other perspectives.

[915] You're not learning how to compromise.

[916] You're not learning how to communicate.

[917] If your iTunes is just delivering you country songs, you go, oh, music sounds like this.

[918] Like, well, all the music you listen to sounds like this.

[919] And I said that wrong.

[920] I guess what I meant to say is that even without that, uh, incredibly complex apparatus, the internet.

[921] You would do that without that.

[922] That's kind of what I was getting up.

[923] And the internet just makes it worse because it does that for you.

[924] Yeah, yeah, yeah, with far more computing power than your brain.

[925] But all we do on this podcast is talk about Sam Harris's podcast because we're so obsessed, Monica and I, but he had, it was Jonathan Haidt, right, who he had on.

[926] And he was talking about confirmation bias.

[927] And he was saying that basically our brains are not capable of being objective.

[928] It's just really not in our brains in that even if you give people contrary information that disproves what they already believe, they figure out a way to make it support.

[929] Sure, they have to double down.

[930] Yes.

[931] And then the point he made, and then this goes back to AA, which is he said, but systems can be very objective.

[932] And that's why the scientific method works, that's why the community of scientists and peer review, that can accomplish something objective.

[933] Sure.

[934] That if we all rely on this system and it checks our own work and it co -pilot, ourselves, that you can approach objectivity.

[935] And that's why I like AA simply because you have all these other people and you start believing all this shit.

[936] And then you hear someone else say the exact same thing.

[937] And you go, oh, right, I do that.

[938] And then this system ends up helping you approach that.

[939] Yeah, systems are agnostic.

[940] Some systems are agnostic.

[941] But the problem is that once you start plugging in the data, you can still get results that your own confirmation bias can deny.

[942] You honestly could show someone video proof that is indicted.

[943] geometrically opposite to what they believe.

[944] Yeah.

[945] And they will, just like you said, they'll go, well, that's fake.

[946] Not to get political and I don't even care really, but yeah, the fact that there are people that firmly believe that when Trump said, no, that's not me on those Billy Bush tapes, that, that, oh, it's not him, even though you've literally just heard it.

[947] Yeah.

[948] When he says it's full of people at his inauguration, and there's a image we're staring at.

[949] Well, let's even go, let's even go bigger than politics, the idea that there is like a strange flat earth movement.

[950] Yeah.

[951] It's like that you, that in 2018, you go like, well, okay, maybe people don't agree on everything politically, but we all know that the earth, and there's a percentage of people.

[952] Now, let me ask you in this, and this is, I'm asking you now to become an armchair psychologist.

[953] And do you believe they believe that?

[954] That's my question.

[955] Do you really believe they believe they believe the earth's flat?

[956] Or do you believe that they enjoy being a part of that movement so much that they don't give a fuck if they're it's flat?

[957] I think it's a toss up.

[958] I don't think everyone has the exact same reason.

[959] reason.

[960] I do believe, and again, that that's, I just want to say, never seen it as a ball only in pictures.

[961] But, but it, but again, if someone starts going down the right rabbit holes and they are open to suggestion that it is not difficult, because I do believe conspiracy is the religion of the 21st century.

[962] Yeah.

[963] And the reason that conspiracy is such a religious thing for people is because the more information that's out there and the more shit that our brains are trying to process, the more information there is to create a world that we can understand.

[964] And in order to do that, we have to fill in gaps so that there are not logic gaps.

[965] And just it's very much, very much the same way that we look back and go, in ancient Roman times, they thought there was a, they thought there was a God for everything.

[966] So stupid.

[967] But people do that kind of shit now.

[968] And the internet is there to take them down those to support it.

[969] Well, the explanation I heard for the appeal of conspiracy theories, which I really loved, I want to say I heard it on that hardcore history.

[970] If you ever listen to that?

[971] I know the podcast.

[972] It was this, that the reason people believe that there were a bunch of people involved with killing John F. Kennedy is that if they accept that one lunatic had the power to change the course of history, that world then becomes too fucking scary to live in.

[973] So it's much more comforting to think that this was an elaborate plot by a lot of smart people.

[974] There's comfort in that.

[975] It's just too scary and dangerous of a place.

[976] You know that one idiot can fuck up.

[977] Because his point was he was tracking back.

[978] We think that we live in this age of terror.

[979] They keep using this term age of terror.

[980] And he said, well, really, if you look at where terrorism really started, it's killing Archduke Ferdinand, which then starts World War I, which then causes World War II, which then, you know, you can track every fucking problem we have.

[981] to this one act of terrorism, and there were conspiracy theories about that.

[982] But on a bigger, but on even larger scale, it's the idea that, but most people in order to survive are not comfortable saying, I don't know.

[983] Why is this thing happen?

[984] Why is the moon?

[985] Why is this?

[986] How come that?

[987] I don't know.

[988] Most people aren't comfortable with that because that feels too chaotic.

[989] Well, it feels like weakness, too, to say I don't know.

[990] But it also feels like, oh, well, if nothing has any meaning and everything is random and chaotic, then why do anything, you know, and it is, not that I'm saying the world should go to AA, but just the idea of...

[991] Well, they should.

[992] I'll say it for you.

[993] But I mean, but the idea of it's okay to not know things.

[994] And it's okay to say to people like, I don't know why that is.

[995] You said that?

[996] I don't know yet.

[997] And maybe we'll know at some point and that's fine.

[998] I, you know, I'm okay with not knowing for some time.

[999] You know, there's a lot unanswered questions, but we'll get there.

[1000] But at least science is the pursuit of truth.

[1001] But let's take the 9 -11 thing.

[1002] there's all these 9 -11 conspiracy theorists and for them, and I understand the appeal, it's way, it feels much safer to know that the Bushes somehow coordinated this whole thing and that they wanted to go to war and it was an act of this government versus eight Yahoo's from all over the Middle East took down the world trade.

[1003] If that's the truth, if eight Yahoo's can destroy the World Trade Center, then we're all fucking vulnerable.

[1004] And then again, but then again, stepping back because I even see this.

[1005] mentality has bled into, and obviously this is much less serious than what you just said, but I'm just trying to illustrate that it goes across all sectors.

[1006] You'd be hard pressed to go more serious than 9 -11.

[1007] Yeah, I know.

[1008] But it goes across all sectors is even fandom and entertainment people treat like it's a political movement.

[1009] And when things happen on shows or in movies, you see in the fan sites all these conspiracy theories that people are 100 % convinced.

[1010] Oh, well, you know, the studios did this.

[1011] And I, you know, what you got to understand.

[1012] It's like, mostly people don't know what, like don't know what the actual facts are.

[1013] But you're watching all these narratives, bill, because people need to understand why something.

[1014] And again, it's because we're becoming spoiled as consumers was not 100 % the way that they wanted it.

[1015] And if, and we are not learning how to deal with things as not being 100 % the way that they want it.

[1016] Because so much, like, because our need for things to be convenient and easy.

[1017] Well, we do live in a time where you get most of the shit you want.

[1018] Almost immediately.

[1019] And so if something is not exactly how we want it in any given moment, you know, delivered to us how we want it, people flip the fuck out.

[1020] And it's not just politics, it's entertainment, it's food, it's anything.

[1021] Along those lines of, you know, the threads on these message boards about shows, a lot of times it's just bad writing, right?

[1022] Like they didn't think through a logic issue.

[1023] And because they love the thing, they now have to make it work.

[1024] Does that make sense?

[1025] Work backwards.

[1026] Yes, they ought to work backwards.

[1027] So it could just be shitty writing in one episode or some glitch in logic.

[1028] And then now you, because you revere this thing, you are forced to make it make sense.

[1029] But also, but again, you know, people watch them and they go, something happened on the show.

[1030] This is fucking dumb.

[1031] This didn't need to happen.

[1032] You go, well, you haven't seen the whole series yet.

[1033] So you don't know or you haven't seen.

[1034] So you don't know or like something happened in the, you know, in the last Star Wars movie.

[1035] Well, you haven't seen the next one.

[1036] So you don't know what's being set up.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] Kind of like, you know, and it's why I'm, my wife and I. I watch mostly horror movies.

[1039] Okay.

[1040] And I've become very forgiving because most, a lot of horror movies.

[1041] Do you ever make love during those?

[1042] Are these, uh, no, we pause them for the making love and then we, and then we resume.

[1043] Okay.

[1044] Um, so, uh, but you become very forgiving because a lot of horror movies are not great.

[1045] And it's because a lot of them are, you know, very independent and people are doing the best they can.

[1046] A million dollar budget.

[1047] And so you get very forgiving because it's easy to go, why the fuck didn't, they do this or why they do that?

[1048] But if you were to talk to the director, the director might go, well, we had no money.

[1049] We lost light.

[1050] An actor got sick.

[1051] That was the only day we could shit.

[1052] And then you start realizing like, oh, you start not taking things personally.

[1053] And everyone takes everything personally because you realize like, okay, the director or whatever the person, they weren't just trying to fuck your day up.

[1054] They were, and it goes back to what we were talking about before about thinking that everything is about you.

[1055] Yes, yes.

[1056] It's like they had their own set of challenges and it's just that's what happened and it was not personal which I find very comforting realizing that you know you are also just a lover of things which I think is a great thing to aspire to be like you have this show talking dead right yes it's just you fucking love it right and you just want to talk about it that's true and I obviously I would get shit more so in the beginning for like we're not critical of the show and why don't you call things out that aren't good on the show and it's like I'm going to theorize something here sure I'll let you I'll let you hypothesize.

[1057] I will because I feel like I've been on both ends of this spectrum, which is you have pretty good self -esteem.

[1058] No, I don't know about that.

[1059] No, I mean, I know what you're saying, but I...

[1060] He's telling you no. You do have good self -esteem.

[1061] Don't don't incrugure me about my own personality.

[1062] I guess, let me start another angle because clearly I'm not finding purchase on that argument.

[1063] So what I'm going to say is that as I felt very that this business, business we're all in was very out of my reach.

[1064] Like when you and I met, you and I didn't have shit, right?

[1065] I was in the third level of the groundlings and you were doing stand -up.

[1066] Yeah, Edward, that where no one was coming to shows.

[1067] Right.

[1068] So there's no, that reminds me something so funny.

[1069] My sister brought over today a pamphlet of a show.

[1070] I did 20 years ago this August.

[1071] And it was, it was myself, Melissa McCarthy, Ben Falcone, Nat Fax, and all these people now that are working.

[1072] And so I text Ben Falcone a photo of it.

[1073] And I said we should do a show this August 20 year reunion.

[1074] And he said, yes, let's remember to book two showings and have to cancel one.

[1075] That's exactly what happened.

[1076] But when I was very outside of this whole thing that I thought I was never going to be a part of, I was way more critical of that thing.

[1077] Because it was a system that didn't include me. So I was trying to find error in that system.

[1078] You had to because it helped you feel better about yourself.

[1079] Yes.

[1080] Because if you have to admit that just maybe you weren't right to be working yet.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] Then it puts a lot of pressure on yourself.

[1083] And maybe that's true or maybe that's not true.

[1084] Like I would gather information about actors who basically I loved, but I was jealous of.

[1085] And then I would tell people all this time about this is so embarrassing.

[1086] But like, Vince Vaughn, he was my favorite, like wedding crashes.

[1087] I was like, this guy's amazing.

[1088] Yet I would tell people that I don't ever even met the guy, but I would hear little things about him.

[1089] Like maybe he drinks too much.

[1090] I would tell people that.

[1091] Like I would just do all these things.

[1092] Because you needed to make sense of why he was famous and successful and you were not.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] I just had to have something on him because I was so fucking jealous of him, you know.

[1095] It like puts the ball in your court a little bit.

[1096] You're not even on the court at all.

[1097] I claim some little piece of power over this thing I have nothing to do with.

[1098] And so all I'm saying is that you're in a very good position to be a lover of things.

[1099] I've always been that way, though.

[1100] You're saying?

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] And everything I do like my podcast or at midnight or anything is all about like celebrating and supporting.

[1103] And I think I actually have remarkably low self -esteem.

[1104] I beat myself up.

[1105] I get very critical of myself.

[1106] I always think everyone hates me. So I don't.

[1107] How do you feel about your looks?

[1108] I'm not crazy about them.

[1109] Yeah, me either.

[1110] And so is anybody?

[1111] I don't, is anyone crazy about my looks?

[1112] I don't think of it.

[1113] Your wife, I'll fact check and I'll find out.

[1114] No, she'll find thousands.

[1115] you know, and so, you know, like people, I've seen stuff written about me about talking to everybody.

[1116] They're like, we've got to understand, Hardwick is contractually obligated.

[1117] I'm like, no one has ever said, I'm not contractually obligated to speak positively of walking dead.

[1118] I don't have to do anything.

[1119] Right.

[1120] I just choose to be positive because I love the thing.

[1121] And I'm very close to everyone who makes it.

[1122] And I like seeing the good in things because if you want negativity, it's not hard to find that.

[1123] You can find that anywhere.

[1124] I honestly applaud and am grateful that you are a source of positivity.

[1125] It's really excellent.

[1126] I struggle with it at home because I feel like I spit it out so much in the world and I come home and I just kind of feel bad, you know, like I just feel like, oh, I'm empty.

[1127] I don't know what I'm, no what the fuck I'm doing.

[1128] But all right, so I'm going to accept that you have low self -esteem, okay, but I am going to ask you to compare your current self -esteem to your self -esteem when you and I first met.

[1129] Well, dramatically different, yes.

[1130] That was so tainted by alcohol.

[1131] Uh -huh.

[1132] You have depression as well?

[1133] Sure, yeah.

[1134] I mean, I'm not on medication for it or anything, but I, but I recognize.

[1135] when I'm going through right like you know little I'm fortunate enough that it's not to the extent that I can't function or I can't get out of bed or I can't you know talk to my wife like I just I I have it to a degree where I feel that sort of it just feels like there are weights on your soul yeah and there's no bright light yeah and the future is is going to be worse than the past that's exactly right that's exactly right um so but at the time it was I was just so clouded by alcohol I can't even say exactly how I felt because none of it was real.

[1136] Right.

[1137] So how about day one of getting sober versus now?

[1138] It was.

[1139] Because I want to be able to use you as a data point in my overarching theory that if we're alike.

[1140] And we met at the same time.

[1141] We both had drinking problems at the same time.

[1142] And we had a mutual girlfriend or a shared girlfriend.

[1143] So there's some similarities.

[1144] Is this Andrea Sav?

[1145] We both did.

[1146] Who's amazing, by the way.

[1147] We love.

[1148] We love.

[1149] This is like we couldn't applaud her more.

[1150] Absolutely.

[1151] She's brilliant and she helped you get over really.

[1152] She really did.

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] I essentially, I kind of owe her the rest of my life.

[1155] Because she was the person that said, you have a drinking problem and you really need to figure it out.

[1156] I'm not going to stick around.

[1157] Like, she had the strength of character to say like, I'm not here to be your nurse.

[1158] I'm not going to stick around for it.

[1159] She was.

[1160] She has incredible self -confidence.

[1161] She was so influential to me with that.

[1162] So yes, and she's amazing.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] But I assume or I'll just ask you, did, did you you tell yourself, because I told myself, if I had accomplished these certain set of things and I had a certain amount of money, I was going to feel good.

[1165] I was convinced of it.

[1166] Yeah, I mean, but that is, that's that thing that I feel like I joke about a lot, which is this sort of the filling the whole thing, where there is a whole in you that is not related to the external world, but you will try to fill it with external things.

[1167] Yes.

[1168] And it's almost like they're in two different planes of existence.

[1169] And so you can throw money or success or alcohol or sex or whatever there and that all stuff just all phases through the hole yeah yeah and it doesn't fill it it just falls through the hole and all the stuff that fills the hole is you getting to know yourself better forgiving yourself it's like it's all of that annoying self -help shit yeah yeah for me like when i when i broke down that word self -esteem and i started thinking like oh self -esteem comes from a doing esteemable acts you know and as you do things that aren't related to status and money and all these things.

[1170] When you go out of your way to fucking help somebody that it's inconvenient to you, you came to my podcast today.

[1171] You're the busiest person I probably know.

[1172] When you drive home tonight, whether you enjoyed this or not, you'll probably feel kind of good that you, you helped me today.

[1173] No, I'm totally happy to do your podcast.

[1174] Yeah, but it's nice.

[1175] You are of service to me today and I hope you feel good because of that.

[1176] Definitely.

[1177] Yeah, because contribution, contributing to society.

[1178] Contributing to your community feels good because that is the real connection point, it's not necessarily what you're standing in that community is, but if you feel like you're really contributing, then you're connected.

[1179] Because if you're contributing, you have to be connected.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] And that being, that's a being a part of something.

[1182] And while you're doing those things, it's kind of hard to be thinking about yourself as much as I would like to.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] Left to my own.

[1185] So yeah.

[1186] Isn't that kind of funny?

[1187] There can weirdly be selfish reasons why you are contributing to help other people.

[1188] You should go, well, it feeds me at the same time.

[1189] I'm a little, I or Anne Randi and in that belief.

[1190] I do think you ultimately are doing everything selfishly, but that's okay.

[1191] But yeah, when you're hearing your friend's problem about their marriage or whatever, it's really hard to think about yourself.

[1192] And it's a fucking nice relief to stop thinking about yourself.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] It really is.

[1195] It really is because we all need a fucking break from thinking about ourselves.

[1196] I know.

[1197] This fucking guy right here.

[1198] So you wrote a self -help book.

[1199] I did.

[1200] And what is the theory of that book?

[1201] It was sort of looking at the way.

[1202] the kind of, you know, and I know it's an overused term, but sort of the way the nerd brain works.

[1203] Tell me what the nerd brain is.

[1204] The nerd brain, common misconception, because people always go, what's a nerd?

[1205] And I would say, it doesn't matter whether you like Star Trek or action figures or e -sports or whatever it is.

[1206] But the nerd brain is basically an obsessive brain.

[1207] It will unnaturally obsessive over something, but not just obsessed, but also in the level of understanding.

[1208] Like the true nerd brain will try to understand something deeper than any other living creature.

[1209] And in a lot of cases, like use that information against other creatures.

[1210] But in general, really try to understand the nature of something better than anyone else.

[1211] Yes.

[1212] And so when I quit drinking, I realize that I do obsess over things and I do have this unnatural ability to focus on things.

[1213] And while I was working on that, I realized like, well, maybe, like we were talking about asset.

[1214] So if I know how to unnaturally focus on things, maybe instead of focusing on hating myself and drinking and destructive behavior, I will focus on constructive things.

[1215] I will focus on creating things that I want to be a part of so that at least as while I'm learning about why I'm obsessive about things, at least the things that I will be obsessing over are constructive.

[1216] We'll be beneficial.

[1217] So it's saying to me, we're like, that laser focus that your brain has over things that you really are passionate about.

[1218] You can use that to your advantage and capitalize on the anxiety and the obsession and try to flip it so that you are sort of forcing it to work for you rather than to basically destroy you.

[1219] And do you have descriptive action you recommend?

[1220] Sure.

[1221] Here's another great thing we heard the other day.

[1222] We were listening to a podcast about a guy who this guy, he's a New York Times journalist or something.

[1223] But he's, he's on numerous occasions lived a certain way for a couple of years as an experiment and then wrote about it.

[1224] So he lived biblically for two years.

[1225] Like by the book, literal biblical.

[1226] He tried to become the healthiest guy in the world.

[1227] But anyway, he said his conclusion after doing all these things is that it is a lot easier to act your way into changing your thinking than to think your way into changing your actions.

[1228] Yes.

[1229] And I think that's a very powerful thing.

[1230] So when you're when you're trying to use your powers for good, what physically are you doing?

[1231] Like what steps does one take to do that?

[1232] Well, so it's very helpful to collect data to understand how you approach the world because I think most people just sort of live, they sort of believe that life just kind of guides them wherever they're going.

[1233] Ah, this happened to me. Fuck, this happening.

[1234] And I think a lot of people don't realize that even on a very microscopic level, there are very quick choices and not all.

[1235] I mean, I'm not, I'm not trying to sound like a privileged piece of shit to say that everything.

[1236] Yeah, if you've been brutally raped, this is.

[1237] is excluded.

[1238] Yes.

[1239] Or any, any horrible, tragic thing that has befallen you, I'm talking about, systematic racial oppression.

[1240] I'm talking about like little things day to day or if someone's at a job they hate and they go, man, of course, this, you know, yeah, I fucking didn't get that promotion.

[1241] This happens, this happens to me all the time.

[1242] Yeah, yeah.

[1243] Then you sort of go, when I look at my own, I won't talk about other people, I'll talk about myself.

[1244] Why was I not working?

[1245] Why was I not getting opportunities?

[1246] Well, because everyone hates me or I'm not this or I'm not.

[1247] famous enough or I'm not this.

[1248] Then I start going back and I look and I go, all right, I did make the choice to drink every day.

[1249] I did make the choice to play a video game instead of working on sides when I had an audition.

[1250] I was making little choices that I didn't realize were choices.

[1251] Right.

[1252] But then getting angry at the result as part of a bigger conspiracy.

[1253] And so what I started doing was tracking like, what do I do in a day?

[1254] And I would time that.

[1255] Like, oh, wow.

[1256] I did, you know, this and this time to this time.

[1257] And then I went down a rabbit hole of, you know, looking at squirrel videos on YouTube from this time to this time.

[1258] And what I found when I gathered all this information is, oh, wow, now that I have this data, I can manipulate this data.

[1259] And I have more of an act.

[1260] Minimally, you're getting an honest account of what the fuck you're doing.

[1261] Which probably no one knows.

[1262] You're most of the, a lot of times you just do things very mindlessly because you're on autopilot.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] And so then I realize like, oh, I can start to pilot this chip a bit.

[1265] And I can't, obviously I can't control things that happen in the external world, but I can control how I react to things, how I respond to things.

[1266] I can change where I devote my energy during a day.

[1267] I can, and so I basically just, I just started accumulating data until I realized I got a much better understanding of how I approach things and how I do things because it allowed me to then make changes in those areas and move things around sort of, you know, as modular units.

[1268] to then start making healthier choices.

[1269] And then when you start making healthier choices, it has its own momentum.

[1270] It has its own momentum.

[1271] Like I always say like, you know, answers really do reveal themselves to you when you're asking the right questions.

[1272] But you're not going to get all the answers at once.

[1273] And once you start down the path, it's just like you said, how you noticed you were living a very toxic life, so you always notice fights.

[1274] Yeah, yeah.

[1275] When you start living a healthier life, you start noticing healthier things because that's what you're too, into our brains, you can teach your brain to focus on anything.

[1276] If I say to you like, look at the, look how the color brown is everywhere, you're going to look around the zoom and go, look at that frame, look at the picture of that great day and look at that lampshade, look at that lamp.

[1277] Yeah.

[1278] That's all you're going to see.

[1279] Because that's how your brain.

[1280] Skatoma, is that what that's called?

[1281] I don't know.

[1282] I think it's, I don't know if it's a, I thought it was like the reticular activation system or there's some part of the brain that sees what you are focused on everywhere.

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] I have come to think of my mind.

[1285] well -being the same way I think of my body now, which is my body will never be in a state of homoostasis.

[1286] It won't just stay this way.

[1287] It is either getting shittier or it's getting better.

[1288] I either have to, you know, I'm either working out and it's getting better and better and better or I stop doing things and starts getting worse and worse.

[1289] Well, everything's in a state of growth or death.

[1290] Exactly.

[1291] And so growth or decay, I should say.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] And when you start thinking about your own mental fitness that way of like, oh, as you say, you make this one good choice early in the morning and that potentially will lead to another good choice later in the afternoon and so on and so forth versus I start my day and I eat a fucking s'm a bunch of bad decisions are probably going to follow that right well because also a lot of things that you think are emotional are actually physiological oh so if you are if you are sedentary or if you wake up and the first thing you do is put a lot of sugar in your body it's going to affect your mood yes and when it affects your mood, it affects the choices that you make.

[1294] And when it affects the choices that you make, it affects your life and the lives of those people around you.

[1295] And so it really is not that hard to see that if on a, you know, if on a Monday, you make a really bad choice and you just keep making those choices over and over again, it just creates and it snowballs and becomes your reality.

[1296] Did you, do you happen to read Sapiens or Homo Deus?

[1297] No. Okay.

[1298] The second book, Homo Deus, goes a lot into this notion of self, right?

[1299] We think of ourselves as be, is that one thing, self, myself, when in fact you have minimally two selves, one of them being your experiential self, and then one being your Twitter profile, and then your Facebook profile, and then your narrative self.

[1300] Sure.

[1301] Right?

[1302] So the experiential self will be on your phone looking at Facebook, and you can do that for three hours.

[1303] And you're very happy doing that.

[1304] That's your experiential self.

[1305] But then you go to bed at night, and you're now writing the story of your life.

[1306] And then you're evaluating that day and you go, fuck, man, I spent three hours staring at Facebook.

[1307] And Now that self is very unhappy with the experiential self's choices.

[1308] And I do think like being cognizant of which self are you servicing is useful.

[1309] Okay.

[1310] So what you just said right there, so the idea of writing shit down, not just collecting data, but if you were to ask most people what they want, a lot of people couldn't tell you what they want.

[1311] They know they just want more of something that they think is going to make them happier.

[1312] And so that data, when you write down, like, and I got very adept at, writing down goals like daily and seeing where I was at, being open to change and flexible, because you can change, you can change your idea, but writing down, well, what do I want?

[1313] Well, I want this, this and this.

[1314] And then you say, why do I want those things?

[1315] And the reason you do that is because you might find out you don't actually want the things that you think because of what's required of you to try to manifest those or you kind of when you start going, oh, this is really the nature of this thing.

[1316] I don't really want that.

[1317] So it's understanding that.

[1318] But I think the most important thing to remember.

[1319] remember is that whatever you believe about yourself is true.

[1320] Your brain is designed to answer any question that you throw at it.

[1321] And if you ask it bad questions, it will give you bad answers.

[1322] Why do I fail?

[1323] Why am I a piece of shit?

[1324] Why do I always do this?

[1325] Why does everyone hate me?

[1326] Well, because you're dumb and because you're ugly and because you don't, you have no talent.

[1327] You know, but if you say, well, how can I do this better or what can I learn from it?

[1328] It, it empowers you to get the data that you need to then, you know, the second side of that is, this is the GI Joe knowing is half the battle.

[1329] The other half the battle is actually applying that information.

[1330] Well, yeah, one of my pet peeves is people who start a lot of sentence with.

[1331] I'm the type of person who blank.

[1332] And I feel like people say the type of person that they are quite often.

[1333] That's not the type of person they are.

[1334] And there's a line in AA, which is I was upset that people were always judging me from my actions and not my intentions.

[1335] Oh my God.

[1336] That's exactly.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] That's it.

[1339] Right.

[1340] Like you're not what you think you are.

[1341] You are what you physically fucking do.

[1342] Do you show up on time for work or not?

[1343] That's exactly what I was talking about earlier where people online will always argue at you about their intentions and not their actions.

[1344] Yes.

[1345] And I always say to them like your intentions do not justify your approach.

[1346] They're not relevant.

[1347] It doesn't matter.

[1348] People go, I was just trying to, I was just trying to is my least favorite fucking phrase.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] It's usually used as an excuse rather than saying like, oh, maybe I was mean or maybe I did something that caused this situation or maybe I, it basically, it doesn't accept the responsibility when you go, well, I was just, very few people say, very few people say, I would like to be chaotically evil today.

[1352] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1353] You know, most people have good intentions.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] Just for whatever they're, whatever they think they need to do.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] But what was your action?

[1358] What did you do?

[1359] Collecting, collecting that data is so very, valuable because it allows you to see yourself from an outside perspective.

[1360] Once you put it into the material universe, you were able to look at it a little more objectively.

[1361] Especially the way you did it, which is numbers.

[1362] So it's kind of disempassioned by nature.

[1363] It's just like, here are the numbers.

[1364] Disimpassioned by, yeah.

[1365] Now I want to start doing bits.

[1366] No, I was going to say disempassion, my nature is my rap group.

[1367] It doesn't matter.

[1368] It was a bad bit.

[1369] I regretted it the second I started it.

[1370] your improv training would have told me to commit to it but instead and then I would have been forced to fucking yes and yeah you had to I would have to say oh my god yeah I saw you guys in Atlanta you were fucking great I don't love your third song in the set but yeah and then I would have to I would have to yes and whatever that song was and talk about well Chris I just want to publicly say uh you're you're someone that I have a ton of admiration for both because um I kind of put you in the Seth Myers category I have in my head of people who like fucking work their ass off.

[1371] Oh, thanks, man. I just, you're smart and your message is wonderful.

[1372] And beyond all that, you're, you're very open and willing to talk about the soupiness that led to all this, which I think is very helpful.

[1373] I love, I like talking about it, not just because I like to hear my own voice, but also, uh, in addition to that, um, fourth on the list past that.

[1374] But, but the reason that I like talking, about it openly is number one, it is helpful for me to talk about it out loud.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] But number two, if anyone is able to extrapolate even one molecule of anything helpful from the dumb mistakes and stupid choices I have made or the way that I, then to me, I sort of feel like that is the, that is great.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] That makes me happy if someone else hears something go, oh my God, I never thought about that.

[1379] Or you said something really stupid, which reminded me that I say something really stupid.

[1380] And so, you know, so it's, I, it's just the same reason that you sponsor people are the same reason.

[1381] It's community.

[1382] And again, I can identify with you beating yourself up over something you said at a party.

[1383] I can't actually identify with the empire you run.

[1384] So if you want to come here and just talk about the, because you do, you have this super, you do, you have this crazy impressive empire.

[1385] And if you were here to just talk about that, I'd be like, oh, great, I don't, I don't have a fucking empire.

[1386] I can't relate to anything.

[1387] But, but, but to know, you know, you think your looks are so so and you you know you second guess everything you say to somebody that is hugely inspirational it's hard to me to picture people that don't i just assume like well everyone thinks that they're about to get tapped on the shoulder and ask to leave the party yes even though it's easy for me to talk openly about it i fall prey to it constantly where i get caught on my head about some dumb thing on the internet or something and you know my my wife is very she's a very optimistic positive person and then I kind of rain on the parade because I'm stuck in my head about something and I then have to take a minute and go oh I'm doing the fucking thing your schick I'm doing yeah I'm doing the old classic Chris Hardwick stick and uh even though even though you know I think I'm so right about something and I'm so justified and you know no no no you can't you know and Lydia is amazing at going like because she's one of the fucking coolest people I know, but she's also not by any means a dormant.

[1388] Like, she's very accommodating, but she is also not afraid to go, well, there are two people in this relationship.

[1389] And just because you want a certain type of experience right now does not mean that we both should have that experience.

[1390] And I have to go, right.

[1391] Fuck.

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] Right.

[1394] I so relate to that.

[1395] And in fact, I now through a lot of practice, when I feel myself building an intellectual case against something in my head, I now go, oh, that's a red flag.

[1396] Your feelings are probably hurt or you are fearful of something that does happen.

[1397] I am not Jack McCoy from Law & Order.

[1398] Yes.

[1399] But I can feel myself preparing my opening statement to something to Kristen.

[1400] And I go, oh, that's a bad sign.

[1401] That means you're scared of something.

[1402] If you would all think of the words Exhibit A, you're in a lot of trouble.

[1403] Yeah, it's time for you to go take 15 minutes out in your bedroom and just think about maybe what you're scared of.

[1404] There's almost certainly something you're scared of in that moment.

[1405] Well, Chris, thank you so much for coming.

[1406] Thanks for having me on.

[1407] One block from your house.

[1408] I know, no. It's an honor to come on.

[1409] And I'm glad that you're doing a podcast because, again, the more, first of all, you're super fucking funny.

[1410] And the more people that are willing to talk about this types of stuff, mental illness.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] And talk about it in a very normal way.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] It just sort of destigmatizes it for people who feel like I'm a, mess and I'm too broken for anyone to love and I'm too.

[1415] It just makes people go, oh yeah, yeah, a lot of people do this shit.

[1416] And it's fix.

[1417] You can deal with it.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] Well, I hope this stuff is the antidote to looking at your friend's Instagram page, which is curated.

[1420] And you're literally comparing your normal life to this perfectly curated.

[1421] Again, their matrix ideal.

[1422] There it is.

[1423] Huh?

[1424] Their matrix ideal.

[1425] Everyone's full of shit.

[1426] All right.

[1427] Well, you and I are doing our part.

[1428] Thank you, Chris.

[1429] Thanks, Dan.

[1430] Thanks, ma 'am.

[1431] Stay tuned if you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[1432] Christopher Hardwick.

[1433] Monica, I can only imagine you're excited to go through this one because I've already outed you already about this, but I'm going to do it again.

[1434] When he left the addict, love sick.

[1435] You were love sick.

[1436] You expressed the fact that you found him in person to be very attractive.

[1437] I did.

[1438] You thought he was very smart.

[1439] I'm embarrassed.

[1440] Are you?

[1441] I hope.

[1442] Because he might listen.

[1443] He would never listen to this.

[1444] The guy himself creates like 400 podcasts.

[1445] He's on 12 shows.

[1446] He doesn't have time to listen to this.

[1447] So you should feel free to be as honest.

[1448] Well, I'm in love with you, Chris.

[1449] If you are listening, I know you're not.

[1450] But if you are, and I know you're not, if you are, I love you.

[1451] This episode's brought to you by I love you.

[1452] By Monica Padman.

[1453] I love you.

[1454] man?

[1455] No, love actually.

[1456] That's a very polarizing movie, right?

[1457] I see it as a punchline in a lot of scripts I read.

[1458] They like make love actually jokes, right?

[1459] Didn't you even have an audition where they're making a love actually joke?

[1460] Fuck, I don't know, but I feel like it's somehow it's a polarizing movie.

[1461] I didn't realize it was.

[1462] I don't think so.

[1463] I just thought it was a great, there's a great movie, right?

[1464] It's a good movie.

[1465] It was very universally loved by everyone but may actually.

[1466] Actually, it was universally loved actually.

[1467] Yeah.

[1468] Because Because mainly by females and men, but mainly by females.

[1469] It's like a notebook adjacent movie.

[1470] Yeah, but is it in English?

[1471] Or is an English director?

[1472] Oh, British.

[1473] I thought you meant in English.

[1474] Oh, yeah.

[1475] Yeah, it was British, right?

[1476] And was it, Kurt, oh, I love this guy.

[1477] I do his red nose campaign every year.

[1478] Hugh Grant.

[1479] No, he directed Pirate Radio and wrote Notting Hill.

[1480] He might have directed it.

[1481] Oh, he's Curtis, Curtis, uh, fuck.

[1482] I don't know.

[1483] It doesn't matter.

[1484] I don't know.

[1485] Richard Curtis, who I love.

[1486] Did he do love actually?

[1487] Did he?

[1488] We don't know.

[1489] Rob's doing some high tech on the fly.

[1490] Whatever.

[1491] Get back to us, Rob, on that.

[1492] Okay, hit us with some facts.

[1493] You love Chris Hardwick.

[1494] Continue.

[1495] Yeah.

[1496] And you all do too now, I'm sure after having listened.

[1497] Oh, he's so smart and so fun and genuinely nice person, which is rare.

[1498] Okay.

[1499] Curtis is broke.

[1500] Oh, Richard Curtis wrote Love, actually.

[1501] Okay.

[1502] All right.

[1503] You said you saw Glenn Danzig on a plane and he was short.

[1504] Yeah.

[1505] And I just checked and he is 5 '3.

[1506] That's short.

[1507] Yeah, that's below the median height.

[1508] That's short.

[1509] That's a little taller than me. Also, as a kid, if you're watching Glenn Danzig on VHS tapes, he looks like a monster on stage.

[1510] He was like super built.

[1511] In his video, he wrestled an alligator.

[1512] He would wear like a net shirt in his video with big pecks.

[1513] So it's just in my mind he was, he was like he man. And then in real life, he was short, which is great.

[1514] There's nothing wrong with that.

[1515] No, not at all.

[1516] We love it.

[1517] I love it.

[1518] I only like short people mostly.

[1519] You're barely here.

[1520] One foot tall.

[1521] And Kristen, she's five.

[1522] She's, I think she says 51, but I don't think she is.

[1523] She's taller than me and I'm 5 foot and a half inch.

[1524] So she's probably 5 .1 or 5 .1 and a half inch.

[1525] You were searching for the name of your favorite Barbecue Place in Memphis And their catchphrases Put some South in your mouth Blue City Cafe Oh Blue City Cafe Good, I'm glad you And I would like a T -shirt that says that Put some South in your mouth Because I'm from the dear old South Do we have like an address People can send us gifts Rob I feel like We're not asking anyone to pay for this podcast At least we could get us some T -shirt A t -shirt that says put some south in the mouth Opiates or something.

[1526] Can you send us drugs and I can provide an address right now.

[1527] I want her to experiment with that.

[1528] We can pass on that.

[1529] What do you want?

[1530] Prada shoes.

[1531] What did you say?

[1532] Yeah, somebody sent me some Louis Vuitton shoes.

[1533] Some fancy chocolate.

[1534] Okay.

[1535] Someone mail me a Ferrari.

[1536] And talking about professional bowling.

[1537] Oh, yeah.

[1538] I found this to be the most fascinating aspect of Chris Hardwick's story.

[1539] Yeah, because you kept calling it a bowling alley.

[1540] No, no. He kept calling it a bowling center, which no one in the world calls it that.

[1541] And I finally said, why the fuck are you calling it that?

[1542] Yeah.

[1543] And I'm saying, you were being rude to call it an alley.

[1544] Okay.

[1545] To call it an alley.

[1546] That's what they're called.

[1547] You roll the ball down an alley.

[1548] That's what the lane.

[1549] Yeah, but it has a derogatory.

[1550] You think it's a pejorative alley?

[1551] Yes, it has a derogatory connotation.

[1552] Yeah, it does.

[1553] Bad shit happens in alley.

[1554] shit happens in alleys.

[1555] No, bad shit.

[1556] People get murdered.

[1557] Half of Bukowski's books are set in an alley.

[1558] That's where you want to be.

[1559] That's where the action's happening.

[1560] That's where the stories are created.

[1561] Okay.

[1562] All right.

[1563] We're so off topic.

[1564] Get to a fact.

[1565] I am.

[1566] Oh my God.

[1567] Okay.

[1568] So professional bowling, Chris estimated that the amount of money current professional bowlers are making is equivalent to back then when his dad bowled.

[1569] Like he thought it hadn't changed.

[1570] Oh, okay.

[1571] And he thought the highest paid bowler would be making around 250 to 300 ,000.

[1572] Uh -huh.

[1573] And according to the Professional Bowler's Association, the highest paid bowler last year earned 168 ,2190.

[1574] That is a bummer.

[1575] Yeah, I feel like you're the best at something in the world.

[1576] I know.

[1577] Hmm, we got to get that up.

[1578] That's how professional body building was prior to Schwarzenegger taking over those things.

[1579] So when he won the Mr. Universe is I think he won five.

[1580] cents.

[1581] And then he took it over.

[1582] And then now that prize money's up in that, you know, it's a significant sum.

[1583] He, you know, he times 10xed it.

[1584] Well, it's just weird that it went down.

[1585] Well, I assume that that parallels America's interest in bowling.

[1586] Certainly it's gone down from its height.

[1587] That's true.

[1588] Yeah.

[1589] He, his dad still holds the record for total pins in an eight block game.

[1590] Well, really?

[1591] And how many pins was that?

[1592] Billy Hardwick.

[1593] Billy Hardwick.

[1594] He rolled eight games.

[1595] And let me just set the bar.

[1596] So had he bowled a perfect 300 in all eight games, he could have got a possible score of 2 ,400 points.

[1597] What did he get?

[1598] 2 ,165.

[1599] Damn.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] That's impressive.

[1602] Yeah.

[1603] That's basically like he rolled seven 300 games.

[1604] Wow.

[1605] Good for Bill.

[1606] I know.

[1607] That was his name was?

[1608] Yeah, Billy Hardwick.

[1609] Billy Hardwick.

[1610] I bet Billy's don't like being called Bill.

[1611] Probably not.

[1612] No. It sounds completely different.

[1613] It does.

[1614] One's a cute little name, and one is like the sheriff.

[1615] Yeah.

[1616] Bill Buckman.

[1617] Or Billy the kid.

[1618] Yeah.

[1619] Racing with the moon.

[1620] You said you didn't know who got whose girlfriend pregnant of those two.

[1621] No. Well, let me tell you right now, I think that Nicholas Cage got his girlfriend.

[1622] Yeah, now you know.

[1623] No, I think I knew then.

[1624] This is one of these things where I bet if we relistened, I'm not sure I agree with you.

[1625] I promise.

[1626] You said, you said, I don't know who got pregnant.

[1627] Oh, okay.

[1628] But it was.

[1629] All right.

[1630] So it was Nick Cage's character?

[1631] Yeah.

[1632] And he played Nikki in the movie, right?

[1633] His character's name was Nikki.

[1634] I have never seen it.

[1635] Okay.

[1636] I thought maybe though, when you Google search this, it would have said, Nikki.

[1637] It probably did.

[1638] I'm going to be very forthcoming and say, this fact check happened a many, maybe a month ago.

[1639] Oh, don't ruin the illusion of this show.

[1640] Why?

[1641] People, we like honesty here.

[1642] Oh, okay.

[1643] All right.

[1644] Right.

[1645] All right.

[1646] We're just doing what we can.

[1647] We do what we do.

[1648] All right.

[1649] What else happened?

[1650] Malcolm Gladwell chapter on dyslexia is in David and Goliath.

[1651] Mm. Mm. Okay.

[1652] You should remember that because you bring that up a lot.

[1653] Yeah, I do.

[1654] I do.

[1655] In a great way.

[1656] It's great.

[1657] I'm so going to run out of my little tidbits.

[1658] No, they're great.

[1659] Like what did Hardwick?

[1660] He's done 800 podcasts or something crazy.

[1661] Did we get that number?

[1662] I mean, how on earth does he have anything to say?

[1663] He might just repeat it and no one cares.

[1664] No. Because when I listen to Stern, Stern tells the same exact story about his fucking mom and dad.

[1665] And I love it every time.

[1666] Yeah.

[1667] I think everyone likes it.

[1668] But also he, I know, because I like him so much.

[1669] Hardwick.

[1670] Yeah.

[1671] He just really just goes off what his guests, because his guests are going to bring new information every time.

[1672] Yeah.

[1673] Right.

[1674] Yeah.

[1675] He's much better at that than me. I've said in an earlier intro that you might have missed, but it has been pointed out to me that I do interrupt people too much.

[1676] And maybe I even talk too much.

[1677] much.

[1678] But anyways, he's great at not doing either of those things.

[1679] I don't think you do those things.

[1680] But I think that he does a, he does a good job of listening to his guests and then.

[1681] Diving.

[1682] Yeah.

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] Yeah, he's great at it.

[1685] Okay.

[1686] Now, oh, we were sort of unclear on the Bukowski quote.

[1687] So the quote is, the problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts while the stupid ones are full of confidence.

[1688] Oh, what a good quote.

[1689] Really good quote.

[1690] I like that he starts it with the problem of the world.

[1691] Like he's got it.

[1692] He's narrowed it down to one thing.

[1693] And he's right.

[1694] He's virtually right.

[1695] Yeah.

[1696] Oh, because we must have been talking about the Dunning Kruger effect.

[1697] I think so.

[1698] Yep.

[1699] Because he discovered it before sociologists actually put some data behind it.

[1700] He made that exact observation.

[1701] Yeah, exactly.

[1702] We talked about the flat earth movement.

[1703] and the percentage of people who think the earth is flat.

[1704] And I couldn't find the exact percentage.

[1705] Yeah, because they're too fucking stupid to answer a survey.

[1706] Right, exactly.

[1707] But there was an article, I feel fine that we said that.

[1708] Yeah.

[1709] If we're alienating.

[1710] Yeah.

[1711] If you're offended that I don't, that I think you're stupid because you think the earth is flat.

[1712] Sayonara.

[1713] Yeah.

[1714] Scyonara suck ass.

[1715] I couldn't find the exact percentage.

[1716] But there was an article in the economist that said America's flat earth movement is actually growing.

[1717] Oh, I believe that.

[1718] Because I never heard a thing about it.

[1719] And now I constantly am hearing it.

[1720] Yeah, that's it.

[1721] Because data from Google trends show that in the past few years, searches for flat earth have more than tripled.

[1722] Though that's a little dicey.

[1723] It could be misleading.

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] Yeah, because a lot of people are like me or you trying to figure out how many doofus is out there.

[1726] Exactly.

[1727] I bet the amount of searches for terrorism has gone up a ton in the way.

[1728] that doesn't mean terrorism has gone up a tonne.

[1729] Here's what I'm frustrated with.

[1730] We've all seen the photo of Earth from the moon, okay, or from the satellites.

[1731] And so I guess what they're saying is, look, it's a circle.

[1732] But what they're not acknowledging is all the continents are not on that circle.

[1733] So where are the rest of the fucking continents?

[1734] They're on the, what do they think it's on the other flat side?

[1735] There's something about it that they're saying like, I'm actually, they're winning by us even talking about them.

[1736] You know, like they're saying something so fucking stupid and we're spending energy trying to dissect how they could possibly think that.

[1737] Yeah, I know.

[1738] They won.

[1739] The terrorists won.

[1740] Those are the terrorists.

[1741] They are.

[1742] Okay.

[1743] And talking about 9 -11, speaking of, whoa, really good transition.

[1744] You mentioned the eight Yahoo's, you called them Yahoo's, who took down the World Trade Center, but there were actually 19 hijackers.

[1745] All on the planes?

[1746] 19 hijackers that day, yeah.

[1747] Really?

[1748] Oh, because there was three planes, four, right?

[1749] There was four.

[1750] Yeah, yeah.

[1751] Three succeeded.

[1752] One did not.

[1753] And so on each plane we're saying there's, yeah, that's interesting.

[1754] I also thought that some of them didn't make it.

[1755] Like they were all in Florida together.

[1756] I think they trained to fly at some place in Florida.

[1757] And then they met up somewhere and didn't they go, they went to Hooters or something.

[1758] There was one part of the story that was like, oh, that doesn't seem in keeping.

[1759] with this movement.

[1760] But it also does.

[1761] So, yeah, so they were at a hooters or something.

[1762] And Tompah got a little too drunk.

[1763] Yeah, people got drunk.

[1764] Yeah, they were drinking, which, of course, my interpretation of Sharia laws, you're not allowed to drink.

[1765] And so they were drinking and they were at a, excuse my French, almost a titty bar.

[1766] And then they, yeah, a little ironic.

[1767] But yes, I think some of them didn't make it that were supposed to make it.

[1768] Well, they're about to die.

[1769] I mean, look, if I were going to, going to die the next day.

[1770] I would perhaps go to Hooters.

[1771] I'd get hammered even though I've been sober.

[1772] Yeah, you would.

[1773] I would 100 % get hammered, yeah.

[1774] Okay, you referenced the AJ Jacobs, Sam Harris podcast, which I think you may have already referenced, but I'll just say that what he said is not ring a bell to me. AJ Jacobs, which one is he?

[1775] He is the one that says act your way into changing your thinking instead of think your way to changing your action.

[1776] That's probably, you probably said that.

[1777] and I'm crediting.

[1778] That's from A .J. Jacobs on Sam Harris podcast.

[1779] Yeah, the guy who wrote the books about doing weird things for living biblically.

[1780] Right, exactly.

[1781] Okay, and then I made a note.

[1782] I fact -checked this already and gave a little more context on Seth Green's episode.

[1783] So if anyone is interested, they can pop over to Seth Green.

[1784] Okay.

[1785] So this was so interesting.

[1786] Chris.

[1787] Let me put a bib on.

[1788] This is going to be juicy.

[1789] Get a new pair.

[1790] Okay.

[1791] Get my backup panties.

[1792] He was talking about his self -help.

[1793] Like, you can train your brain to see the world differently than you do currently.

[1794] Yeah.

[1795] And he was saying, you know, there's this thing that happens in our brain where if someone says the word brown, you automatically start seeing everything.

[1796] And I said, I think that's called Skatoma, which I might be wrong about.

[1797] And you're wrong about that.

[1798] I am?

[1799] Yeah.

[1800] What is Skatoma?

[1801] Brie told me that.

[1802] I'm going to blame her for that.

[1803] She's smarter than me. Well, it is.

[1804] Skatoma is a partial loss of vision or a blind spot.

[1805] So it's a, it's used metaphorically.

[1806] It is.

[1807] Yes.

[1808] Literally it means a blind spot.

[1809] Literally it means a blind spot.

[1810] But if you have like, I've never seen the Star Wars.

[1811] So that I have a pop culture scotoma there.

[1812] Oh, okay.

[1813] So it can be used as a general.

[1814] See, I, okay.

[1815] So how I, how it was explained to me and how I understood it.

[1816] And I have looked it up now that you say it and I realize that it wasn't at all what I thought it was.

[1817] But then this is how we found my way back to it.

[1818] So.

[1819] re -explained it to me is you've never noticed how many BMWs are on the road you buy a BMW and all of a sudden you realize oh my god everyone has the same car as me so I guess in that context your scotoma was up previously to owning it your scotoma was you were unaware of how many BMWs were on the road and then you buy it you buy one and then it reverses your scotoma I guess yeah so I got to I got to figure out how to use it well I'll tell you the actual the actual thing you're talking about yeah called Bader Meinhof phenomenon oh that's a It sounds German.

[1820] Yeah, it does.

[1821] Bader Meinhoff?

[1822] Also known as frequency illusion.

[1823] Frequency illusion.

[1824] These are tasty.

[1825] Terms.

[1826] I've used them so much since I did this fact check.

[1827] Say the German one again?

[1828] Bader Meinhauf.

[1829] Bader Meindhoff.

[1830] Yeah.

[1831] And yeah, and so that is that.

[1832] When you hear something or see something or learn something new, it pops up everywhere.

[1833] Okay.

[1834] Bader Meinfeldorf.

[1835] Yeah.

[1836] No, just Bader Meinfeldorf.

[1837] Oh, goodness.

[1838] Okay.

[1839] This is a terrible idea.

[1840] I'm going to teach you that.

[1841] We gates.

[1842] Why now students go botstock?

[1843] There's more about this.

[1844] Oh, please.

[1845] Because it's really interesting.

[1846] So that happens because of our brain, the recency effect in our brain.

[1847] And Chris had mentioned this, the reticular, what did he call it?

[1848] The reticular activation center in our brain.

[1849] Ooh.

[1850] That is connected to this.

[1851] So that's a part of our brain that basically keeps pieces of information, relevant pieces of information in it because we can only hold it.

[1852] so much at one time, our conscious mind can only hold slightly more than 100 pieces of information every second.

[1853] Ooh.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] So the reticular.

[1856] That's a lot, though.

[1857] It is a lot, but we're getting so much more than that.

[1858] Sure.

[1859] So the reticular activation system filters through the things that should stay and the things that can go.

[1860] Exactly.

[1861] There are certain types of information that always get through the game.

[1862] Gates of RAS.

[1863] Okay.

[1864] So the sound of your name being called.

[1865] Anything that threatens your safety of you or loved ones.

[1866] And an indication from your partner concerning sex.

[1867] Ooh.

[1868] Isn't that interesting?

[1869] That just cuts right through the bulls.

[1870] It never gets filtered out.

[1871] That's it always reaches you.

[1872] Oh, interesting.

[1873] If you're, if that part of your brain is working, I guess.

[1874] Right.

[1875] So, I mean, those are things that your brain is considering the most important sensory options to you.

[1876] Yeah.

[1877] So your safety, that makes sense.

[1878] Sex, that makes sense.

[1879] What was the first one?

[1880] Your name.

[1881] Yeah.

[1882] That's peculiar because what a late bit of evolution, the brain, right?

[1883] Because we didn't vocalize names for so long in our evolution.

[1884] it's a relatively newer thing, us speaking languages.

[1885] Yeah.

[1886] So that must be one of the last parts of our brains that evolved.

[1887] Yeah.

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] Thank you for that.

[1890] That's all.

[1891] That's it?

[1892] That's all.

[1893] Oh, wow.

[1894] Well, that was great and informative.

[1895] Yeah.

[1896] And any parting words for Chris in case, you know, we know he's not going to listen to it.

[1897] We know he's not.

[1898] I know you're not.

[1899] But in case you do it and I know you're not.

[1900] That's another issue.

[1901] Your wife is very lucky.

[1902] Oh.

[1903] that's a great way to end it and I wish I were your wife maybe I'll leave that part out but I'll just leave it at your wife is lucky yeah and we're lucky to have had him on yeah I love I hope you have crushes on many more guests I will don't worry yeah okay great all right good night okay bye follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcast you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and add free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1904] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.